# Unethical practices of Byjus and it's impact on education



## Anorion (Apr 16, 2020)

*Created from this Source thread:* Free stuff during lockdown megathread

This is a collection of everything you can access for free during the lockdown

...
Byju's is giving free learn from home classes for students
...


----------



## Nerevarine (May 29, 2020)

Wow out of all the things, Byju's is giving something free ? Do not accept even if they are. its a very unethical company, which targets vulnerable parents and guilt them into paying a premium.


----------



## quicky008 (May 29, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Wow out of all the things, Byju's is giving something free ? Do not accept even if they are. its a very unethical company, which targets vulnerable parents and guilt them into paying a premium.



True,I heard Byjus recruits engg. graduates from colleges under the pretext of offering them lucrative jobs with really high salaries(20-30k or more per month).But very few students who join their company actually manage to last more than a few months due to unethical target based job requirements(which they very conveniently don't mention at the time of conducting recruitment drives) that they follow and tremendous work pressure which very few individuals can actually put up with.AFAIK most of their "so-called" jobs revolves around hoodwinking clueless parents into buying their "courses"(or whatever it is that they call them) by paying huge premiums and only those candidates who manage to do that successfully are allowed to stay at their company.


----------



## Nerevarine (May 29, 2020)

Yes their practices are very unethical, both for their employees as well as their customers.
Only real winners in the company are the management. Ill stop here, don't want to veer this thread to offtopic


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 12, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Wow out of all the things, Byju's is giving something free ? Do not accept even if they are. its a very unethical company, which targets vulnerable parents and guilt them into paying a premium.


+1, its basically a fraud.


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 12, 2020)

has anyone heard about this coaching institute called white hat jr?Their ads are popping up all over the web,including popular sites like FB and youtube.

According to their propaganda,any candidate that enrolls for their courses will become a programming champion,and may even end up becoming the next Bill gates or Steve jobs!!

They also dubiously claim that people who took up coding from a very early age like Steve jobs(who AFAIK handled the business side of things at Apple,but was never involved in any sort of coding related tasks)usually become highly successful.


This is looking like another byjus in the making.


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 13, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> has anyone heard about this coaching institute called white hat jr?Their ads are popping up all over the web,including popular sites like FB and youtube.


Yeah, I saw a tv commercial too. It went like several businessmen & businesswomen were fighting over to invest in a app that a small child has coded, and the parents of that child were proudly telling this story to a neighbor. So, yeah this one's definitely like byjus, forcing gullible parents (which is the majority of parents, bcoz of how they are sensitive towards giving their child "the best") to buy their package, without any ethics.

For study of students , honestly I found the "free" khanacadmey to be the best, and perhaps the only option. What do you think?


----------



## mayurthemad01 (Sep 13, 2020)

Byju's has invested 300million usd in whitehat jr and they also have roped celebrities like sonu sood, farah khan to endorse them. (There ad's appear frequently in youtube. But i don't like byjus business model feeding on the gullible parents.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 13, 2020)

mayurthemad01 said:


> Byju's has invested 300million usd in whitehat jr and they also have roped celebrities like sonu sood, farah khan to endorse them. (There ad's appear frequently in youtube. But i don't like byjus business model feeding on the gullible parents.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


No one does, they want to make drones out of kids. All they care about is money. They don't even care about their own employees


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 14, 2020)

mayurthemad01 said:


> Byju's has invested 300million usd in whitehat jr and they also have roped celebrities like sonu sood, farah khan to endorse them.


Oo that explains soo much.



mayurthemad01 said:


> But i don't like byjus business model feeding on the gullible parents.





Nerevarine said:


> No one does, they want to make drones out of kids. All they care about is money. They don't even care about their own employees


Yes, but the main problem is many parents don't even wanna listen that the company is just extorting money from them. There ain't just parents who fall into the trap, many students join these "free" classes just cause they are desperate. The covid19 hasn't helped much in that regard. I myself haven't seen any good "free classes" except khanacademy ( which is not laser focused on Indian curriculum) to give 'em a alternative........................


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 14, 2020)

There's really no get-smart-quick scheme that works.. most of the parents that fall for this crap are the ones that don't have notable educational background themselves. these byjus etc peddle the crap and exploit FOMO from parents.


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 14, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> most of the parents that fall for this crap are the ones that don't have notable educational background themselves.


This is certainly not true(imo). According to me if a parent is more educated but is unable to give time/effort to his child's education, he is significantly more likely to fall for this crap.


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 14, 2020)

Æsoteric Positron said:


> This is certainly not true(imo). According to me if a parent is more educated but is unable to give time/effort to his child's education, he is significantly more likely to fall for this crap.


I framed the opinion after speaking to an IIT Kanpur professor who is a relative of mine. I asked him if what he thinks of Byjus and the "modern education" thing.
His only reply was there was what I wrote above. Parents working in the academic field are less likely to send their kids to byjus or other crap, typically professors, researchers etc.. Me thinks


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 14, 2020)

Byjus actively recruits students from btech colleges under the guise of offering them outrageously high paying jobs eg 10L pa, 8L pa and so on but this is in fact a big lie.


Their jobs are like those that are typically seen in the sales/marketing sector and are target based. Also their targets tend to be impossibly high, so much so that no sane person can hope to achieve them in the allotted time frame.And thus 90 % of the clueless candidates who join their company are never able to get the promised high pay packages and are instead paid peanuts for their efforts, unbeknownst to everyone.


I don't understand why the first instinct of every typical Indian businessman is to make money by scamming/cheating his countrymen. And people who can do that efficiently tend to become highly successful in their line of work(while honest hard-working men live from hand to mouth).


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 14, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> Byjus actively recruits students from btech colleges under the guise of offering them outrageously high paying jobs eg 10L pa, 8L pa and so on but this is in fact a big lie.
> 
> 
> Their jobs are like those that are typically seen in the sales/marketing sector and are target based. Also their targets tend to be impossibly high, so much so that no sane person can hope to achieve them in the allotted time frame.And thus 90 % of the clueless candidates who join their company are never able to get the promised high pay packages and are instead paid peanuts for their efforts, unbeknownst to everyone.
> ...


Its a dog eat dog world, ease of doing business in india is lowest. So the only easy alternative is to eat the other people


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 14, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> Byjus actively recruits students from btech colleges under the guise of offering them outrageously high paying jobs eg 10L pa, 8L pa and so on but this is in fact a big lie.
> 
> 
> Their jobs are like those that are typically seen in the sales/marketing sector and are target based. Also their targets tend to be impossibly high, so much so that no sane person can hope to achieve them in the allotted time frame.And thus 90 % of the clueless candidates who join their company are never able to get the promised high pay packages and are instead paid peanuts for their efforts, unbeknownst to everyone.


Oh, you seem to know this stuff, the thought never came to my mind that in biju's not only ruin parents and students but also their teachers. That's really sad. Its like this company is run by robots, the only difference being , robots probably have more humanity than them.


quicky008 said:


> I don't understand why the first instinct of every typical Indian businessman is to make money by scamming/cheating their countrymen. And people who can do that efficiently tend to become highly successful in their line of work.


The instinct of most businessmen's are to cheat and make money, the only difference between Indian business men is the can get away with it. Authorities either don't care or are corrupted away and even new channels consider bringing "death of a single actor" in limelight more important than suffering of thousands.


Nerevarine said:


> Its a dog eat dog world, ease of doing business in india is lowest. So the only easy alternative is to eat the other people


Yeah this is can also be a factor. Newcomers are shooed away and only the hard-hearted can thrive.


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 14, 2020)

Byjus has a very powerful PR strategy too. Any post in popular social networking channels vilifying or asking too many questions are taken down. I remember there was a very recent video on reddit which was taken down by Byjus PR agency. Another guy's YouTube account got terminated because he was refuting claims by byjus. They even have taken down someone on LinkedIn.


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 14, 2020)

^this is also compounded by the fact that india's labour laws are practically non-existent or are never enforced properly.Thus employers have the free reign over their recruits and are able to exploit them in any way they see fit.


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 14, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Byjus has a very powerful PR strategy too. Any post in popular social networking channels vilifying or asking too many questions are taken down. I remember there was a very recent video on reddit which was taken down by Byjus PR agency. Another guy's YouTube account got terminated because he was refuting claims by byjus. They even have taken down someone on LinkedIn.



How are they able to do that?Looks like they are well connected and have some powerful ministers/officials in their pockets who always do their bidding.

And the worst part of it is that even large privately owned companies like Microsoft and Google are colluding with these fraudsters and actively removing potential naysayers/whistleblowers from the equation by readily suspending or taking down their accounts.I have never heard of someone's linkedin account being taken down because of some reason as stupid as questioning the integrity of some company.


----------



## Nerevarine (Sep 17, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> How are they able to do that?Looks like they are well connected and have some powerful ministers/officials in their pockets who always do their bidding.
> 
> And the worst part of it is that even large privately owned companies like Microsoft and Google are colluding with these fraudsters and actively removing potential naysayers/whistleblowers from the equation by readily suspending or taking down their accounts.I have never heard of someone's linkedin account being taken down because of some reason as stupid as questioning the integrity of some company.


Yes, im dumbfounded too

*entrackr.com/2020/07/linkedin-post...nt-restriction-of-aniruddha-malpanis-account/
Check this. Byjus is a modern day MLM. MLMs operate on disinformation, confusion and FOMO. Anyone educating the public is undermining their efforts. They get triggered. Im sorry I went on such a Byju crusade in a thread not related to it. Maybe we can have a thread to discuss public criticism against companies in a separate one.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Sep 18, 2020)

Just like Byju's, There is a new company fooling people now. It is WhiteHatJR. ( Yeah, I know the name sounds shit)their TVC are pretty common, With advertisements on youtube. But in relity, they are fooling People. 

Here is a comparison to what they say and what they give:- 

_*What they advertise:-*_​*What they give:-*​1. Learn *"coding" *(Mind the word coding) at the age of 5-7They are teaching MIT app inventor, which does not include any code. Just blocks. Which is not *"coding"*2. Create a new and innovative app.Seriously, Like if one visits their website, Half of it is filled with default examples of MIT app Inventor. And the remaining are Calculators. really?3. Get Job at google/Microsoft and other big firms etc.a.This is pretty much not possible, as common sense says, 5 year olds, will at least take 15-17 years for their graduation and all, and by then, what is the guarantee that the blocks which they learnt will be functional?

b. Google may hire people without degree, but will never hire 5 year old who know nothing but just a few blocks.

c. Does the certificate which they give at the end of course of any value? It ain't a degree certificate

*Pricing:-*

These guys have varying plans.
Basic plans:- 349$ or 22K for teaching Variables and basic algorithms (Pretty useless, Huh?) And this thing is even taught to fifth class students. And as told by my brothers, They were taught this in class 5.

More expensive plan :- 1799$ or 132K for introduction to mit app inventor and for teaching to make 1 app which will be available on playstore under there name.

Most expensive Plan:- 5399$ or Rs. 396k ( Expensive asf boi!!) for complete tutorial of MIT app inventor.

And the irony is, One can learn MIT app inventor on their own through Its own course(MIT app inventor's) on there homepage, So why pay these fraudsters?

*Here are some Reviews from my neighbor's and relatives who fell into this trap:-*

_"these people only gives access to first three classes, and then complain of network issues, even on 150MBPS plan. " _ This was reported by 3 people

_"The instructor was not properly trained and what they thought was not what they offered" _Reported by 2 people

*And one last thing, Or the major reasons for me writing this thread:-*
1) My brother's school is forcing him to take this course, against his will. They will teach python basics to him. for a price of 20k, 6 classes.
2) Now they have a scheme, If u refer to 5 of your friends and they buy the course, You get a free MacBook ( Not the latest one, but MacBook Air 2017 edition) Now this scheme is enough to tell how much profit these guys are earning. And yes, On referring to 100+ friends you get a Tesla. 

I got to know about this scheme, Because suddenly, My friends whom I have not even wished for ~7 years suddenly pops and messages about this, And asks me if I want it for my brother.
3) I really get pissed when I see their TVC, The Gardener Telling the boys parents about it. and,
4) They have got the whole youtube covered with their adverts.(these types of fake prodigy apps pisses me off)

*
But is it really needed at this age?*
There have been many such companies into existence, But these are not needed any more. The modern CBSE curriculum has got all the necessary coding stuff beginning from class 5th. by the end of 10th, they will be able to make basic ( and pretty good if the teacher is friendly)  Programs in C++, Visual Basic, MIT app inventor as it is evenly distributed in their syllabus. 

Also, CBSE has decided to include AI and ML in syllabus of Class 11th And 12th. So there is no need to enroll for these fraud programs

If you look for its reviews, Most of them will be on quora, And the answer with most upvotes will be "SpOnSoReD"


----------



## chimera201 (Sep 18, 2020)

Microtransactions, DLC, season pass, gambling/addiction mechanics in education


----------



## TheSloth (Sep 18, 2020)

RumbaMon19 said:


> ....
> 
> *And one last thing, Or the major reasons for me writing this thread:-*
> 1) *My brother's school is forcing him to take this course, against his will. They will teach python basics to him. for a price of 20k, 6 classes.*
> ...


So your brother had to take the course or parents/guardians had the rights to deny this extra class?


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Sep 18, 2020)

TheSloth said:


> So your brother had to take the course or parents/guardians had the rights to deny this extra class?



Of course they had, But the school was forcing as if, He will not do it, They will not give him his internals. But it ain't a board class, So internals don't matter.  After all, They maybe making a nice commission off every enrollment.


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 18, 2020)

May we know the name of that nasty school and its location?


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Sep 18, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> May we know the name of that nasty school and its location?



Ryan International School, Mohali, Punjab. ( Not that branch where that kid was murdered 2 years back )


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 18, 2020)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Just like Byju's, There is a new company fooling people now. It is WhiteHatJR. ( Yeah, I know the name sounds shit)their TVC are pretty common, With advertisements on youtube. But in relity, they are fooling People.
> 
> Here is a comparison to what they say and what they give:-
> 
> ...


Wew lol. That's some seriously detailed rant !


Well, the pricing is ridiculous! I just assumed it was free, and they made profit through ads, how wrong I was.

If someone wanta learn coding, well he just gotta ask on the internet(or the Digit Form). Well there are many free coding resources I myself can link to. About the coding in school stuff, my school didn't include much tho, just Qbasic and html, with C++(deprecated) and python in 11th and 12th (if someone chooses CS as a optional that is). But compelling a student (ur brother) to buy another course which is not taught by school is highly illegal and unethical imo.


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 18, 2020)

when we made our start with coding,it was mostly by reading textbooks-i think this practice is no longer followed by the know-it-all kids and their parents of today.

Reading text books is considered a boring and non-intuitive way of learning nowadays-lots of schools recommend text books for their students' curriculum but hardly does any student bother to go through them anyway,relying instead on youtube videos or notes obtained from private tutors for learning a particular subject/topic.

Shrewd companies like white hat,by jus etc are simply trying to capitalize on this situation by making clueless parents and their wards spend unnecessary money on worthless online courses which are practically good for nothing.One could learn those things for free(or for a very nominal price)by reading a good book on the subject instead.Sometimes even teachers discourage their students from reading books and insist that they should follow their class-notes instead(probably to bolster their income from tuitions),even though ironically its their very school which had recommended the book in the first place(Again to make money in the form of commission from the massive sales of these books).

They seem to forget that a generation of people grew up reading books when there was no internet/online teaching nonsense and they turned out just fine-so why they don't let their kids do the same thing is beyond me.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Sep 19, 2020)

Æsoteric Positron said:


> Wew lol. That's some seriously detailed rant !
> 
> 
> Well, the pricing is ridiculous! I just assumed it was free, and they made profit through ads, how wrong I was.
> ...



Actually it is. But can't do anything, as for his senior secondary, he will have to change his school anyways, so it just 1.5 years more.

As far as coding is concerned, I tried teaching him python, but he has more interest in chemistry. Which I never liked. So, I don't think he will ever require coding and all. (Though he likes destruction more)



quicky008 said:


> when we made our start with coding,it was mostly by reading textbooks-i think this practice is no longer followed by the know-it-all kids and their parents of today.
> 
> Reading text books is considered a boring and non-intuitive way of learning nowadays-lots of schools recommend text books for their students' curriculum but hardly does any student bother to go through them anyway,relying instead on youtube videos or notes obtained from private tutors for learning a particular subject/topic.
> 
> ...




Yupp. Due to all this digitalisation, and the fake hypes of these brands, parents don't consider book. Which is the biggest mistake.

Learning through all these modern techniques make children more like bots and not humans. The curiosity will finish in them, and will end up educated piece of stones. Teaching concept is not all, they must learn to use the concept. And these modern companies don't make children use their brain. It is more like spoon-feeding.

And yes, I am sure Those know it all Kidos of this gen will 100% land into nothing. Remember, _"too many chefs, spoil the dish, And spoilt dish goes to dustbin''_ this old phrase holds true tI'll now.


----------



## Vyom (Sep 19, 2020)

Byjus victim in action:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/iv5j7d


----------



## quicky008 (Sep 19, 2020)

The thing I don't understand is why are private corporations like reddit, quora etc collaborating with these fraudsters? What do they stand to gain by supporting their dubious claims and assist in persecuting/harassing ordinary people who only want to point out their malpractices?

Do they even thoroughly investigate the claims made by byjus against somebody before deciding to terminate or suspend their accounts? How can byjus have such a strong sway over these companies as to force them to do their bidding whenever they feel like?This is really outrageous!


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 19, 2020)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Actually it is. But can't do anything, as for his senior secondary, he will have to change his school anyways, so it just 1.5 years more.


Yeah, government even banned any other books other than NCERT a while back(for both gov. and private) and there were raids in schools to find out if someone carried a supplementary book.

If a supplementary book was found a photo of the student along with the book was clicked and the school had to pay a fine. It was bcoz parents said that school was compelling the students to buy other books and making it mandatory, and the hefty price of the books put a burden on parents.
Whether the call was to genuinely help the parents, or because the government wanted to sell its NCERT books more, or bcoz it was to make the poor parents happy (whose votes matter the most) is up for debate.

But the point is, considering THAT, the situation of the school making the subscription to white hat jr(22k, in contrast to at most 8k for all the supplementary books of even higher classes) mandatory seems more fishy and illegal now.




RumbaMon19 said:


> chemistry. Which I never liked.


I feel ya, tho we didn't had chemistry in 4th.


RumbaMon19 said:


> for his senior secondary, he will have to change his school anyways, so it just 1.5 years more.


Oh, school is till 5th only?


RumbaMon19 said:


> Yupp. Due to all this digitalisation, and the fake hypes of these brands, parents don't consider book. Which is the biggest mistake.
> 
> Learning through all these modern techniques make children more like bots and not humans. The curiosity will finish in them, and will end up educated piece of stones. Teaching concept is not all, they must learn to use the concept. And these modern companies don't make children use their brain. It is more like spoon-feeding.
> 
> And yes, I am sure Those know it all Kidos of this gen will 100% land into nothing. Remember, _"too many chefs, spoil the dish, And spoilt dish goes to dustbin''_ this old phrase holds true tI'll now.


Umm.............. I am not too sure about them, learning from good youtube videos and online courses, is as , if not more effective than books imo. Sure this is a case that makes everyone sad about the dangers of online courses, but I think we should not generalize this into EVERYTHING. Good sources like khan academy do such a great job of teaching khan academy, that my ol' teachers cannot ever hope to achieve. I dunno about coding, but I learned blender online, and I learnt much more than I could with a FastTrack, I could practice as I learn which would be not possible , or at least an inconvenience , when learning with a book. I take a not so radical approach to learning medium, there is no reason to consider one is good while other is bad, learning from book is ok and good for teaching in school, but we all know learning with the machine online interactively, is far more intuitive.

Also about kiddos being useless, well, if social media and the likes don't ruin them, I can be 100% sure that natural selection, and more likely artificial selection and advancement will make them do to us (not ur bros gen, but ur child's gen) what we did to our elders. Sure, many will consider new gen as 'aaj kal ke baache kisi kaam ke nahi' but , well, when the time comes, the new gen always knows more than the older (in the current field only mind you), whether we like it or not.


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Sep 19, 2020)

Vyom said:


> Byjus victim in action:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/iv5j7d


Moral of the story? Don't name urself whitehat sr, just like you don't name ur company green apple. They got such an ezy reason, to ban him lol.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Sep 19, 2020)

Æsoteric Positron said:


> I feel ya, tho we didn't had chemistry in 4th.



He is not in 4th, he is in 9th. Actually, yes they are teaching those blocks to all classes. (Even +1 and +2)



Æsoteric Positron said:


> Oh, school is till 5th only?



No, It is till 12th, But here +1 and +2 faculty is sh*t. In my place, government schools are better than these Hi-Fi private schools. Though they don't have AC and all, But still they have best faculty, due to which cutoff usually goes to 95%.



Æsoteric Positron said:


> Also about kiddos being useless, well, if social media and the likes don't ruin them, I can be 100% sure that natural selection, and more likely artificial selection and advancement will make them do to us (not ur bros gen, but ur child's gen) what we did to our elders. Sure, many will consider new gen as 'aaj kal ke baache kisi kaam ke nahi' but , well, when the time comes, the new gen always knows more than the older (in the current field only mind you), whether we like it or not.



Social media has really F*cked up kids. Even I dont use instagram and facebook, but my brother is using it because all his friends use it. And when I saw his feed, I was surprised to see that what his classmates were upto. All this digitization has led parents to allow kids to use mobile phones, And now, When it is evening time, children are found playing PUBG(RiP) in the park.


Æsoteric Positron said:


> whitehat sr



Well, how did they got it copyright? Whitehat is a term used for cybersecurity experts who refrain from illegal stuff



quicky008 said:


> he thing I don't understand is why are private corporations like reddit, quora etc



This quora thing is now sh*t. Everything is sponsored now.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Oct 3, 2020)

Here is an update.









Made me laugh at the noob teacher. Thinks that data is stored in imaginary clouds with no hardware lol. And her way of explaining


----------



## quicky008 (Oct 3, 2020)

this is pure gold-it wont be surprising if this too gets removed soon.

Cloud is imaginary space-rofl.

I seriously doubt that this teacher has any computer science background-it looks like she is a complete noob.

She is constantly trying avoid answering such a simple question by giving all sorts of lame excuses.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Oct 3, 2020)

quicky008 said:


> this is pure gold-it wont be surprising if this too gets removed soon.
> 
> Cloud is imaginary space-rofl.
> 
> ...




To know the quality  of teachers, Refer this


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Oct 3, 2020)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Made me laugh at the noob teacher. Thinks that data is stored in imaginary clouds with no hardware lol. And her way of explaining


Well, to be fair, this seems like what a student in 5th grade would say, so maybe she is only 5th pass?


----------



## Vyom (Oct 5, 2020)

The guy have gotten major traction on reddit:

```
*www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/j4yqdh/update_on_byjus_the_internet_mafia_and_whitehatjr
```


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Oct 25, 2020)

*www.forbesindia.com/article/take-o...-curious-case-of-disappearing-dissent/63627/1

Luckily, Forbes has made article on it. Try to share as much as possible. Hope the efforts will make an impact.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 14, 2020)

Guys, This thread was under scrutiny by the whitehat jr pr team to get this offline.

You can see redditor poonia had access to their marketing slack channel and they were raising this thread to take action against it.
As a believer in freedom of expression, I do hope you can protect this from their practices.
@Raaabo @Anorion @tamatarpakoda
@whitestar_999 @Desmond David 
(Proof : go to 3:30 of this video, video might go down -> 



)


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Nov 14, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Guys, This thread was under scrutiny by the whitehat jr pr team to get this offline.
> 
> You can see redditor poonia had access to their marketing slack channel and they were raising this thread to take action against it.
> As a believer in freedom of expression, I do hope you can protect this from their practices.
> ...



Is there, any news website/channel which actually reads about all these scams? I saw an article on Forbes regarding this, but no advancement made by any other agency.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 15, 2020)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Is there, any news website/channel which actually reads about all these scams? I saw an article on Forbes regarding this, but no advancement made by any other agency.


that forbes article was because of the redditor's persistence tbh


----------



## Desmond (Nov 16, 2020)

Man, s*** has really hit the fan for WhiteHatJr. The PR nightmare has just begun and their ORM team is fighting a losing battle blocking posts and videos.

That guy replied to my comment on his video


----------



## Anorion (Nov 16, 2020)

Hmm don't worry about content on TDF


----------



## quicky008 (Nov 16, 2020)




----------



## RumbaMon19 (Nov 18, 2020)

*themorningcontext.com/indias-whitehatjr-is-startup-hell/
Another article, On how a ex-employ was forced to delete all his posts on linkedin about negative experience from WHJ.


----------



## Desmond (Nov 18, 2020)

This will become a case study in how not to do damage control.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 18, 2020)

Desmond David said:


> This will become a case study in how not to do damage control.


It's not new, byju's the parent company has been doing this since years.
What we need is regulations.


----------



## Desmond (Nov 18, 2020)

First thing that needs to go is anti-defamation laws, or at least it needs to be reformed. It's super vague and it's used by companies as an excuse to silence any criticism. Business ethics, etc should be addressed second.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 22, 2020)

Byjus filed a 20 crore defamation case against Poonia Damn!


----------



## SaiyanGoku (Nov 22, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Byjus filed a 20 crore defamation case against Poonia Damn!


WTF! Letting the truth out is "defamation" now?


----------



## Desmond (Nov 22, 2020)

We really need some legislation to protect whistleblowers. It would prevent defamation cases from being one-sided. I know it's not possible to have such a law in India but still.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Nov 22, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> Byjus filed a 20 crore defamation case against Poonia Damn!



this is something needs to be shown on TV instead of pointless debates.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 22, 2020)

Desmond David said:


> We really need some legislation to protect whistleblowers. It would prevent defamation cases from being one-sided. I know it's not possible to have such a law in India but still.


Whistleblower protection should be mandatory in every civilized society. Too bad


----------



## Desmond (Nov 22, 2020)

I think most defamation cases are simply made to scare defendants. It's very rare for defamation to be real. I think Pradeep has a good case on his hands if he describes himself as a whistleblower in the case. For a defamation case to be valid the plaintiffs must prove malicious intent, which I think does not apply here because Pradeep isn't doing this out of malice, but rather he is calling them out on their shady business practices.

Then again, I am not a lawyer so perhaps a real lawyer can weigh in on this better.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 22, 2020)

Desmond David said:


> I think most defamation cases are simply made to scare defendants. It's very rare for defamation to be real. I think Pradeep has a good case on his hands if he describes himself as a whistleblower in the case. For a defamation case to be valid the plaintiffs must prove malicious intent, which I think does not apply here because Pradeep isn't doing this out of malice, but rather he is calling them out on their shady business practices.
> 
> Then again, I am not a lawyer so perhaps a real lawyer can weigh in on this better.


In the end, this is india and whoever has the more paid or better lawyer wins.


----------



## Anorion (Nov 23, 2020)

hmm wow nice points in this thread

-the child prodigy thing is a little irritating, and media companies sometimes pick such stories and do carry them without understanding the technicalities of what was actually achieved. But a little publicity to a kid who made an app, actually shows what is the most important part of an app, the marketing. Typically what happens in this case is that the kid or the parent of the kid sends out emails showcasing the capabilties of the app, and a few carry them. EduTech companies showcase the achievements of the kids using their platforms and put their PR machinery working.

-calling them fraud is a bit harsh, they can charge what they want to as long as they are clear about their service. So far what they are charging and what they are offering seems like a value judgement that some might find good enough, others not.

-badgering teachers to test their knowledge about things unrelated to the lesson is not actually good form. Neither is just publicly posting videos of a private slack group as some kind of expose. These things are not shady, they are run of the mill. In fact, it is dangerous to post this kind of stuff on YouTube without knowing exactly what you can and can not say on a public platform, which is where these YouTube creators are caught. You need a trained editorial team, with a policy based on legal guidelines to tackle such things The people most in the wrong imo here are those posting these videos.


----------



## Stormbringer (Nov 23, 2020)

Desmond David said:


> I think most defamation cases are simply made to scare defendants. It's very rare for defamation to be real. I think Pradeep has a good case on his hands if he describes himself as a whistleblower in the case. For a defamation case to be valid the plaintiffs must prove malicious intent, which I think does not apply here because Pradeep isn't doing this out of malice, but rather he is calling them out on their shady business practices.
> 
> Then again, I am not a lawyer so perhaps a real lawyer can weigh in on this better.


Correct me if I'm wrong, for Whistleblower protection, shouldn't Poonia be an employee of the company ? Or anybody who exposes malpractices of an organization is a Whistleblower ?

Note: Not a lawyer.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 23, 2020)

I think on legal grounds they haven't stepped on any frameworks, except for misleading or outright conjuration of some kid wolf gupta with zero proof of his existence. That should be enough ground to cover fraud, should a case be made.

The thing is they have played the copyright protection laws like a damn fiddle, and managed to remain completely legal in their activities like banning any dissent from social media.
Google's YouTube copyright notice is made that way where you are guilty unless proven innocent.
Fraud is not the right word to use, but controversial, definitely. Their ORM team must be on some premium weed if they still think they can just outright delete posts continuously without creating some controversy. Anyways, for Google, linkedin, Facebook, twitter to take action they have to modify their existing rules because if they do take action, suddenly there are millions of suppressed voices (whether true or false) who now demand the same. 

The best course of action would have been to silently ignore poonia, and let him do his thing but them banning him just added fuel to the fire.

Posting the slack may not have been the right move by poonia, he should have contacted a lawyer before doing it. He needed to pace himself instead of going all out and burning it up. Yes the slack videos generated a lot of attention, a bunch of articles got made but I really hope it reaches a conclusion, i.e. company is penalized.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 23, 2020)

Stormbringer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, for Whistleblower protection, shouldn't Poonia be an employee of the company ? Or anybody who exposes malpractices of an organization is a Whistleblower ?
> 
> Note: Not a lawyer.


You are right, poonia will be termed as a leaker not a whistleblower. Just googled whistleblower vs leaker


----------



## Desmond (Nov 23, 2020)

Anorion said:


> -the child prodigy thing is a little irritating, and media companies sometimes pick such stories and do carry them without understanding the technicalities of what was actually achieved. But a little publicity to a kid who made an app, actually shows what is the most important part of an app, the marketing. Typically what happens in this case is that the kid or the parent of the kid sends out emails showcasing the capabilties of the app, and a few carry them. EduTech companies showcase the achievements of the kids using their platforms and put their PR machinery working.


The "Wolf Gupta" kid was a fabrication as per the legal notice served by them to Poonia.



> -calling them fraud is a bit harsh, they can charge what they want to as long as they are clear about their service. So far what they are charging and what they are offering seems like a value judgement that some might find good enough, others not.


Agreed. It's more of an argument of whether the service is value for money or not. Though personally I think the whole premise of their business is kind of flawed because charging close to one lakh for very elementary programming courses to kids belonging to an age group who would not be able to grasp the concepts is not fair. Also, their marketing about kids getting a 30 lakh job at Google is pretty shady marketing. On that basis I think they are in the wrong.

Technically both of them have done wrong, it's a matter of how much:

Byju's have shady marketing and misled parents by enticing them with lofty claims that have very little to zero substance. Poonia, while calling them out correctly has also leaked confidential and internal communication of the company, though I think it's justifiable. WHJ can also claim personal defamation since Poonia has displayed a photoshopped image of the founders morphed like a dog in some pics/videos.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 23, 2020)

After going through the live case on twitter, 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330755991118364672In hindsight, poonia could have done a lot of things right, like not going haywire in calling teachers "housewives", or porn on the platform. 
If his case was calm and composed, and he thought it through, it would have been a clear decisive victory. The whitehatsr lawyer has literally nothing on poonia. All he has are wayward tweets made by poonia.


----------



## Nerevarine (Nov 23, 2020)

Just look at this shit. I cant begin to understand how racism is so ingrained in a company channel.


----------



## Desmond (Nov 23, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> View attachment 19755
> 
> Just look at this shit. I cant begin to understand how racism is so ingrained in a company channel.


Seems sexist and racist at the same time.


----------



## Anorion (Nov 23, 2020)

Everyone involved here are just unprofessional and do not know how to behave that is all

WhiteHatJR needs a more professional PR team, with a transparent and open approach for addressing concerns, as well as better trained teachers, and someone needs to order them some pizza and show them some DVDs on dos and donts of official communication channels

This Poonia guy needs to understand basic human decency

I feel dirty looking at screenshots so not going to even comment on what is going on in those slack channels

In the media industry, there is a term for taking care of such elementary matters to meet bare minimum levels of quality, it is called "hygiene"


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Nov 23, 2020)

Nerevarine said:


> View attachment 19755
> 
> Just look at this shit. I cant begin to understand how racism is so ingrained in a company channel.



What else to expect? They are straight out Freshers. 

Education does not teach ethics.


----------



## Desmond (Nov 24, 2020)




----------



## Desmond (Jan 6, 2021)

It's happening - 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/kqyvj5


----------



## Zangetsu (Jan 15, 2021)

Education is a Billion dollar industry in India.
All coaching class earns crores of rupees and the professor earns crores of rupees.

People are ready to pay exorbitant amount to get into a good institute.


----------



## Nerevarine (Jan 15, 2021)

Zangetsu said:


> Education is a Billion dollar industry in India.
> All coaching class earns crores of rupees and the professor earns crores of rupees.
> 
> People are ready to pay exorbitant amount to get into a good institute.


Actually it's a result of school teachers and college professors not paid enough. If they were paid as much as the coaching class peers, it would attract more talented people, and overall we would not need to rely on coaching etc.
No first world country has schools + coaching/tuitions. But then again, india's population is the main reason why exams are not a measure of skill/Intelligence but more of a filter. There are many upsc candidates that would fit the role better than someone who managed to mug up the entire syllabus, but the exams are the only way to filter out the seemingly "best candidate".


----------



## Desmond (Jan 15, 2021)

The root cause is competition, arising from population. That combined with fetishization of engineering and medical careers means that everyone wants to get into IITs, IIMs, etc. while seats are few. So, to competitive exams were created to cull the crowd, so to speak.

I remember reading a news on /r/worldnews long time ago about students committing suicide somewhere in India because the exam results website had a bug that showed their scores lower than the actual scores. Many of the western commentors on that thread could not understand why someone would commit suicide over exam scores. Then a Chinese guy replied that its the same in China and competition is so tough that people don't qualify for seats in colleges by as little as one mark, that too after many years of preparations.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Jan 15, 2021)

Desmond David said:


> Then a Chinese guy replied that its the same in China and competition is so tough that people don't qualify for seats in colleges by as little as one mark, that too after many years of preparations.



Ya, I saw a video about this china thing. There exam is called GaoKao, In this not only maths and science but even language is tested. Also, they have many rules, like no one can ask a doubt from teacher while s/he is teaching. 








Desmond David said:


> he root cause if competition, arising from population. That combined with fetishization of engineering and medical careers means that everyone wants to get into IITs, IIMs, etc. while seats are few. So, to competitive exams were created to cull the crowd, so to speak.



Half of those people preparing for it are not even interested in this field. Even those are preparing, whose main interest is sports or language, but they are forced to study PCM and PCB subjects. I had a school friend, his father was a doctor, but he himself did not have any interest in any of sciences. he was expert in many sports games, but still he was forced for taking medical.


----------



## chimera201 (Jan 15, 2021)

Literally all of my classmates back in engineering were afraid of programming. I am like why did you choose computer engineering if you are afraid of programming. Coincidentally one of the exam papers exclusively had only programming questions (write a c++ program) and zero theoretical questions. Everyone had a sad and scared face whereas I was the happiest person in the room.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Jan 15, 2021)

^ And this is the reason why india has a large no. of engineers, but very less "real" and "productive" engineers who are technically sound. Most of them just cram up everything.


----------



## Zangetsu (Jan 15, 2021)

Nerevarine said:


> *Actually it's a result of school teachers and college professors not paid enough*. If they were paid as much as the coaching class peers, it would attract more talented people, and overall we would not need to rely on coaching etc.
> No first world country has schools + coaching/tuitions. But then again, india's population is the main reason why exams are not a measure of skill/Intelligence but more of a filter. There are many upsc candidates that would fit the role better than someone who managed to mug up the entire syllabus, but the exams are the only way to filter out the seemingly "best candidate".


Yes teachers are not paid enough but it is only in case of small schools & colleges which are not well funded. Other wise if you go check some esteemed colleges & schools they are payed well. 
Management quota of seats (with high price) and then joining IIT Classes after 8th/10th standard is peer pressure from parents to children.

Even some nursery schools are charging lakhs of rupees now a days.


----------



## Nerevarine (Jan 15, 2021)

Zangetsu said:


> Yes teachers are not paid enough but it is only in case of small schools & colleges which are not well funded. Other wise if you go check some esteemed colleges & schools they are payed well.
> Management quota of seats (with high price) and then joining IIT Classes after 8th/10th standard is peer pressure from parents to children.
> 
> Even some nursery schools are charging lakhs of rupees now a days.


Actually that money is all gobbled up by administration and management, it doesn't reach the teachers or atleast the teachers who just teach and not be part of administration.
Every private school or university has some level of corruption, where money is funnelled out by administration.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Jan 29, 2021)

Here is a talk between a new recruit and his manager of byju's



Spoiler: A bit NSFW











More like Roadies audition, except this happened in real life.


----------



## Nerevarine (Jan 29, 2021)

What happened to pradeep any news guys ??


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Jan 29, 2021)

^Nothing much after his hearing on 6th. that case will take long, as whj's lawyers will surely try to linger on.


----------



## Desmond (Jan 29, 2021)

The hearing was postponed to 1st Feb.


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 10, 2021)

Again postponed according to poonia


----------



## Desmond (Apr 11, 2021)

Yeah, 25th May.

Pradeep's announcement -
 *i.redd.it/2b6s837wdcs61.png


----------



## Æsoteric Positron (Apr 11, 2021)

Desmond David said:


> Yeah, 25th May.
> 
> Pradeep's announcement -
> *i.redd.it/2b6s837wdcs61.png


Damn, that's called persistency!


----------



## RumbaMon19 (May 4, 2021)

*inc42.com/buzz/whitehat-jr-drops-defamation-suit-against-pradeep-poonia/amp/
Can pradeep counter file any case against whj for incurring charges of lawyer, wasting his time and also misuse of judicial system?


----------



## Nerevarine (May 4, 2021)

Well deserved victory for Poonia, but its only a matter of time until WHJ/Byjus donates to one particular party's election fund and its over for Poonia. No one would be able to find a  trace of him..
It is inevitable.


----------



## Desmond (May 4, 2021)

RumbaMon19 said:


> *inc42.com/buzz/whitehat-jr-drops-defamation-suit-against-pradeep-poonia/amp/
> Can pradeep counter file any case against whj for incurring charges of lawyer, wasting his time and also misuse of judicial system?


If this was US, then he would have a good chance of coming out on top. Unfortunately that's not the case.

In any case it's hard to actually make a defamation case stick because when accusing someone of defamation you have to prove malicious intent which anyone could see was not the case here. However, we still need to reform defamation laws to minimize someone weaponizing it to silence critics. In fact, all critics must be protected and online bullying squads must be banned.


----------



## Vyom (May 5, 2021)

I am happy for him. But I don't think WHJ have backed out since they thought they can't fight Poonia. They backed out due to PR, since they are expanding to international market.
I just hope that more "educated foreign countries" are able to read through Byjus tactics more than our county's gullible parents.


----------



## Desmond (May 5, 2021)

I seriously doubt that. You will find punters everywhere.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (May 8, 2021)

*brandequity.economictimes.indiatim...r-pradeep-poonia-fires-salvo-at-asci/82451902


----------



## Zangetsu (Jul 21, 2021)

*indianexpress.com/article/business/byjus-acquires-epic-for-usd-500-mn-7415670/


----------



## Nerevarine (Jul 21, 2021)

What the hell dude, why did you almost give us all a heart attack. 

For the rest of the peeps, it's not Epic Games..sheesh


----------



## Desmond (Jul 21, 2021)

I saw the 500mn and I knew that can't be Epic Games lol.


----------



## quicky008 (Jul 21, 2021)

is byjus co-owned one of the key persons behind the bajaj group?


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Jul 21, 2021)

Lol imagine byjus buying out epic and then making fortnite a coding challenge game for teens.


----------



## SaiyanGoku (Jul 21, 2021)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Lol imagine byjus buying out epic and then making fortnite a coding challenge game for teens.


WTF, don't suggest them ideas to make gaming worse.


----------



## Zangetsu (Jul 22, 2021)

Nerevarine said:


> What the hell dude, why did you almost give us all a heart attack.
> 
> For the rest of the peeps, it's not Epic Games..sheesh


Death by Heart attack is better than Death by Corona


----------



## ico (Jul 25, 2021)

quicky008 said:


> is byjus co-owned one of the key persons behind the bajaj group?


Bajaj Group people are rather okay.


----------



## Zangetsu (Jul 25, 2021)

BYJU's competitor is Vedantu
*www.vedantu.com/
And they have Amir Khan as brand ambassador as compared to SRK in BYJU


----------



## quicky008 (Jul 25, 2021)

ico said:


> Bajaj Group people are rather okay.


Their finance and loan businesses are often criticised for their unscrupulous and scammy behaviour.


----------



## SaiyanGoku (Jul 26, 2021)

4eno09 said:


> I don't know, Both are good startups but it is not possible that any other will take them off.


Reported for spam


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Mar 29, 2022)

Here after byjus acquired


Aakash coaching institute
Toppr
Gradeup
Scholr
Epic
Great learning
Whadat
Tynker
And lastly, GeoGebra also. 

For those who don't know, this was about 90-95% of competition. Those 5% left will be eaten soon. Aakash bought Meritnation sometime back and now by buying aakash, it bought its biggest competitor. 

Basically byjus is eating its competition. Although very common coperate practice... 

Also sponsoring fifa this year 

*www.google.com/amp/s/thelogicalindian.com/amp/trending/byjus-fifa-world-cup-34642
Not a surprise If byjus will become monopoly in future.


----------



## Zangetsu (Mar 29, 2022)

*encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJP1Myakufglz0n2PUCcHKJaRI-OonuphUZQ&usqp=CAU


----------



## vito scalleta (Apr 10, 2022)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Here after byjus acquired
> 
> 
> Aakash coaching institute
> ...


Is this not against some kind of rules by the Competition Commission of India ?


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Apr 10, 2022)

vito scalleta said:


> Is this not against some kind of rules by the Competition Commission of India ?


Maybe, but considering how powerful it has become, it may have contacts higher up.


----------



## vito scalleta (Apr 10, 2022)

RumbaMon19 said:


> Maybe, but considering how powerful it has become, it may have contacts higher up.


Possible. I remember this issue being raised in the Parliament discussion without naming the company.


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 10, 2022)

vito scalleta said:


> Possible. I remember this issue being raised in the Parliament discussion without naming the company.


Even the MPs are afraid of naming the company. They need to stop this before they grow too powerful.


----------



## chetansha (Apr 17, 2022)

Nerevarine said:


> Even the MPs are afraid of naming the company. They need to stop this before they grow too powerful.


In Parliament you cannot name any company or person, unless they are members of Parliament.


----------



## vito scalleta (May 8, 2022)

*www.thehindu.com/education/the-bai...n_n2GXIcgKD12CzBM9-6itBqfmuMbtNOF9SJsSak3hZK8Article from hindu on the impact of such edtech companies


----------



## Nerevarine (May 25, 2022)

Its not just indians, but i get your point.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (May 25, 2022)

TomGould said:


> I don't understand why the first instinct of every typical Indian businessman is to make money by scamming/cheating his countrymen.



Every business does that friend.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 26, 2022)

TomGould said:


> I don't understand why the first instinct of every typical Indian businessman is to make money by scamming/cheating his countrymen.


Because Money matters a lot in Business. They would sacrifice their ethics and morale for MONEY.


----------



## Zangetsu (Sep 15, 2022)




----------



## ico (Sep 16, 2022)

*themorningcontext.com/internet/byjus-2020-21-financials-show-its-a-house-of-cards


----------



## Zangetsu (Oct 6, 2022)




----------



## Desmond (Oct 6, 2022)

I think it's much more likely that someone would buy them out before that happens.


----------



## RumbaMon19 (Oct 6, 2022)

Most service based and ed-tech startups in India are creating losses. Swiggy, Zomato, Byjus, Vedantu etc. All are currently in loss. It's only product based ones able to make a living.


----------

