# MS Windows to Linux, Rise of Desktop Linux world!!



## mediator (Sep 7, 2007)

*Linux gets a love letter from South Korea*



> The South Korean postal service is migrating around 4,700 desktop computers from Microsoft Windows to Linux.
> The migration is expected to save the government-run organisation 850 million won (£450,000) per year, according to an article in _The Korea Times_ last week. The computers, which are in 2,800 post office branches, are provided to allow the public to access the internet free of charge.
> Korea Post also plans to be using Linux for its internet banking and payment system by the end of the year, according to the report.
> The South Korean government has funded a number of open source initiatives over the last few years. In 2003, the government announced a plan to replace a significant proportion of proprietary software on PCs and servers with open source alternatives by 2007. Earlier this year, the government said it would provide more than £1.5m to government agencies to encourage them to adopt open source software.
> South Korea is also part-way through a massive rollout of open source software to schools. The project, called the National Education Information System, plans to install a Korean-developed version of Linux in 10,000 schools across the country.


 Source

In other stories .....

*[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Macedonia installs 5,000 Linux PCs in schools[/FONT]*


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Macedonia may be well known for its place in books on ancient history, but it's now on the cutting edge of desktop Linux adoption. The Republic of Macedonia decided to deploy about 5,000 Linux desktop computers in 468 public schools and 182 computer labs nationwide last summer, based on a Ubuntu distribution with a GNOME desktop, the _GNOME Journal_ reports.
> 
> The deployment was part of a joint project called E-School.MK, involving the US Agency for International Development (USAID), Education Development Center (EDC), and the Macedonian Ministry of Education and Science (MoES).
> 
> ...


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[/FONT]Source


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*Linux arrives on 50,000 Brazilian desktops*
[/FONT]





> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Three companies in Brazil -- BitWay Computadores, EnabledPeople, and IMTECH -- have begun deploying Linux-powered desktop PCs for the Brazilian federal government's "Computers for All" program, EnabledPeople announced today. The ready-to-use PCs, sourced by Bitway, include the "Linux XP Desktop" operating system, developed by EnabledPeople and supported by IMTECH.
> 
> Estimated monthly deployment is about 10,000 desktops, with 50,000 desktops already delivered, EnabledPeople, a Linux development company, said. The company did not indicate the total number of desktops that are to be deployed in the course of the project.
> 
> ...


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Source


[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*China to install 141,624 Linux PCs in classrooms     *

[/FONT]





> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]China will install a total of 141,624 new desktop computers running Linux in school classrooms this year. The PCs are ticketed for the Jiangsu Provincial Department of Education, for an educational program called the School-to-School Project. They will run Sun Wah Linux's Debian-based RAYS LX.
> 
> The Jiangsu Province project is the largest procurement project in China's education history, Sun Wah Linux said. In addition, the deployment of RAYS LX marks the largest-ever Linux deployment in China, the company said.
> 
> ...


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Source
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## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*141,624 for classrooms  

*Earlier, I use to say "World is changing from Win2nux".

Now "The world has changed". 

Future has bcom present.   
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=592654&postcount=5[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]
[/FONT]


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

the trend continues the fact of more people friendly with the windows platform will change


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## gary4gar (Sep 7, 2007)

Now who says "windows ins't losing grounds"


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

And in India states like Kerala, TN, WB and Karnataka are also moving to Linux. Especially schools and offices. 

And for India, the BEST solution is Lin / Opensource.

$$$ always matters.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

^^^^ Yup, money is the only thing which always matters. Even in India MS should release Vista Home premium for Rs 3k flat.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

if im not mistaken MS has already taken this trend into account nad have some student version or something like that dont know how good that is


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

If migration to linux is happening in such huge nos. then sooner or later, the market share is going to shift with huge margins. I wonder what happened to the last estimate of 80% windows users around the world? With the failure of Vista and success of OS X and OSS, I see the market share of windows shrinking to less than 50~60% in the next year or two.

But Windows Fanboys will defend it saying it's dumb users who are migrating who don't know anything about computing!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> But Windows Fanboys will defend it saying it's dumb users who are migrating who don't know anything about computing!



How many of them migrating are home users?


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

LOL, no, money is just 1 reason.

Seems like this is going like the other thread, have a look

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64483&page=3


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

its time the indian govt. seriously thot about moving over to linux. at least hundreds of crores of rupees can be saved. even govt. schools wid computer access should make this move. govt. should make this compulsory...


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> its time the indian govt. seriously thot about moving over to linux. at least hundreds of crores of rupees can be saved. even govt. schools wid computer access should make this move. govt. should make this compulsory...



Not compulsory, then students will only know about Linux & not Windows which again means limiting choices.

But yeah, MS should indeed lower prices world wide, $150 for ultimate thre. Thats it...no other edition


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Not compulsory, then students will only know about Linux & not Windows which again means limiting choices.
> 
> But yeah, MS should indeed lower prices world wide, $150 for ultimate thre. Thats it...no other edition


 oops! that sentence should've come before the last one. govt. should make linux compul. in govt. offices......



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> How many home users are there for windows out of the so called 80% of winodws market share?


there are lotsa home users. lots... but they aint counted in the 80% share. the problem is in identifying what home users are using.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How many of them migrating are home users?


believe me, lots and lotsa home users (whom i kno personally) haf migrated to linux, esp after the advent of beryl/compiz fusion etc.


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## praka123 (Sep 7, 2007)

yeah.its a nice move shred win and move to Open Source.more stablity cost savings and most importantly save from the monopoly microsoft&co.<--not a flame,a reality(hope the windows fans in mod close the eye).


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How many of them migrating are home users?


 
Get a life dude! 

Firstly, I didn't even name you or anyone as a windows fanboy but you yourself proved to be one by replying the that quote with something stupid enough.. 

Anyways, You get these nos. from corporations that are moving, the home users are not counted in this and it's impossible to count the exact no. of home users unless someone ones wants to take tha pain to do it. And everyone know the no. of home users that are migrating every single day

How many home users are there for windows out of the so called 80% of winodws market share?

And besides, are you now trying to tell that microsofts market is only in the home segment? When someone says, oh look, something else is beating microsoft in one segment, rather than accepting it, fanboys keep saying.. oh no, microsoft is better in another segment!! Get a life!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Not compulsory, then students will only know about Linux & not Windows which again means limiting choices.


 
Why would the government want to teach students to spend propostorous amounts of money on an OS like windows?

So, in short it's like saying, schools shouldn't make spam filters or firewalls compulsary because then students wouldn't know anything about the online sex industry! which is limiting choices!


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How many of them migrating are home users?



This is the main reason MS try at the school itself. Kerala is the best example. When computer came to the schools, MS tried their level best and tried to make all in Win and they won the first phase too - as the top level officials were all *****

Now its changed and people started realising things. Move should be started from schools and offices, and so far it is good. We can see a lot of home users on Lin very soon 

- This is Din from Kerala, reporter for the ThinkDigit forum lol


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## praka123 (Sep 7, 2007)

calicut international airport hit due  to M$ systems failing,flight cancelled.welcome to stability!
        --urgent need for a transfer to Linux or OSS systems!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Firstly, I didn't even name you or anyone as a windows fanboy but you yourself proved to be one by replying the that quote with something stupid enough.


How about I m asking u in curiosity.



> How many home users are there for windows out of the so called 80% of winodws market share?


Just look around u, what do u see more being used in homes. Linux or Windows.


> Why would the government want to teach students to spend propostorous amounts of money on an OS like windows?


Because Windows is also an OS with the largest market share. Why does IGNOU has UNIX in there BIT course, ever tried finding?

If all u do on the computer is only one thing whole day then yeah, Linux is good enough.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

$150 per 'ultimate' ? hmm Thats Rs.6000

So for 100 Pcs in schools = *Rs. 600,000*

For lin ? 50 per cd for 100 PCs = *Rs. 5000 *? Oh no, these linux guys even allow the same CD to be installed on different systems, damn it


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

but there is one thing that deters ppl from moving to linux and this is MSOFFICE! if today, MS claims that 80% of computer users use windows, then 95% of those ppl stick to windows coz of msoffice.

and as din said, schools and govt. offices are the right places to inculcate OSS awareness....


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> $150 per 'ultimate' ? hmm Thats Rs.6000
> 
> So for 100 Pcs in schools = *Rs. 600,000*



So much misconception....ever heard of Microsoft Volume licensing. Also, for teaching purpose MS already provides a basic edition of Vista which is tailor made for teaching. R U gonna teach students in school about how to play Doom 3?....ever heard of VIsta starter edition which is good enough for school.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Why does IGNOU has UNIX in there BIT course, ever tried finding?


i'm ignorant about this. plz temme about it.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> If all u do on the computer is only one thing whole day then yeah, Linux is good enough.


this is not the ONLY reason to shift to linux. it is one of the reasons.


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## praka123 (Sep 7, 2007)

Vista --where OS decides what ur gonna do!thx to revolutionary Digital Restrictions Management - *defectivebydesign.org
^I dont mind ppl using it.after all Microsoft is a "superior" *.* company.all rivals are #@@ like the say goes "we are the borg.resistance is futile,if u are our enemy/competitor,we'll buy you or FUD your business!"=a marketing genius.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> and as din said, schools and govt. offices are the right places to inculcate OSS awareness....



Not just OSS, but all the OS.

Why do u think that people will install retail version of Windows Vista ultimate in schools. MS already has several plans for such scenarios.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So much misconception....ever heard of Microsoft Volume licensing. Also, for teaching purpose MS already provides a basic edition of Vista which is tailor made for teaching. R U gonna teach students in school about how to play Doom 3?....ever heard of VIsta starter edition which is good enough for school.


ask me, i've used all the so called cheap "student" and "stater" editions and its worser than the iphone (i thot u'd understand this analogy best!   ), believe me. instead of teaching them on this i'd prefer that they teach them something which is fully functional (yes.. practically!)


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

I started using openoffice coz one of my friend whos the owner of a famous brand Ice Cream (not too tech guy) showed me how easy it is.

I started using Filezilla coz one of my clients whos a pop singer told me we can make multiple instance of filezilla.

Gimp was introduced to me by a Bank Employee.

Guy who showed me Debian text install was a medical rep.

People moving to Lin are not-all-geeks. Time has changed.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Not just OSS, but all the OS.


i dont' think windows needs any awareness campaigns! even a 5 year old kid knows about it!!!


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## RCuber (Sep 7, 2007)

Prakash .. Pls no more DRM stuff. we have talked about it a lot..


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

Charan said:
			
		

> Prakash .. Pls no more DRM stuff. we have talked about it a lot..


i agree, prakash plz cut it out.


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> ask me, i've used all the so called cheap "student" and "stater" editions and its worser than the iphone (i thot u'd understand this analogy best!  ), believe me. instead of teaching them on this i'd prefer that they teach them something which is fully functional (yes.. practically!)


 
If you are trying to prove to @gx that Linux or any other OS is an excellent alternative to Windows, then it's not going to happen, why?
Answer: *gxsaurav.spaces.live.com 


			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Arya (Macboy) : Apple is a bloody ruthless corporation, they have been extremely unfair.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> Vista --where OS decides what ur gonna do!thx to revolutionary Digital Restrictions Management - *defectivebydesign.org



Like I asked u before, if you have a better way to protect the intellectuals property of the artist then plz come forward & give it to RIAA, MPAA so that they can tell MS to implement the new ones.

If U don't have any such method, then tell kids not to do piracy, cos after all, if they are software developers how will they feel when someone steals there software.

If U can't even tell the kids not to pirate softwares, then plz keep your mouth closed & stop spreading FUD about something which doesn't affect anyone in India.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So much misconception....ever heard of Microsoft Volume licensing. Also, for teaching purpose MS already provides a basic edition of Vista which is tailor made for teaching. R U gonna teach students in school about how to play Doom 3?....ever heard of VIsta starter edition which is good enough for school.



LOL, already answered. Yes, Rs.60000 is lil exaggerated, I know about volume licensing.

And yes, student edition, starter edition, stripped down versions - We all know why MS doing this ? And you also very well know it.

It is NOT coz they love students. Period !!

Its coz they wanna make kids addict of Windows so that they will use win only when they are in office, home. Then they will spend Rs.6000 and buy win (or atleast pirated ?) or MS will staill allow free / very cheap priceed Win ? 

MS business strategies are too good, they know how to target people, thats why all these editions.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> If you are trying to prove to @gx that Linux is an excellent alternative to Windows, then it's not going to happen, why?
> Answer: *gxsaurav.spaces.live.com



What does that means? I don't have money to pay for a website domain, also i don't have the time to make my own blog using themes available, or PHP coding. I chosed this simply because its that simple. Make one....use MS Word 2007 to post, thats it.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

@help~is~here
no personal comments plz. it'll only add fuel to the fire. lets be ontopic.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Its coz they wanna make kids addict of Windows so that they will use win only when they are in office, home. Then they will spend Rs.6000 and buy win (or atleast pirated ?) or MS will staill allow free / very cheap priceed Win ?



You don't know about MS providing cheap basic edition for Offices?

Tell me something, why do u need Vista home premium in an office or school? Do schools allow kids to play DirectX Games? Or does offices run HD Videos whole day?

Linux is good if u want to run only one or 2 apps whole day. Add to it some music or browsing. Can't u already do the same in Vista Starter edition?


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What does that means? I don't have money to pay for a website domain, also i don't have the time to make my own blog using themes available, or PHP coding. I chosed this simply because its that simple. Make one....use MS Word 2007 to post, thats it.


 
This is where you missed the sarcasm..  it was not about coding or time or money.. it was about the MS only content! and also hosted on live service!


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Linux is good if u want to run only one or 2 apps whole day. Add to it some music or browsing. Can't u already do the same in Vista Starter edition?


haf u used vista starter edition? plz use it first!!!!

the cheapest "usable" edition of windows is vista basic.... and it aint cheap too.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

Sorry for goin off topic and repeating the same old bad joke.. but can't resist, serious readers, please ignore this post ...

Now, small story based on din / gx / mediator discussion lol. Very serious readers can skip this part and go to next post, as this is kinda childish.

din - I am a mason, I get Rs.150 a day, I go from a village to a city for the construction work, I need a transport slution, please help me.

gx - get a taxi man, full comfort, good interiors, cd player and may be A/ C too.

din - OK, OK, but cost ?

gx - only Rs.125

din - sir, I can't afford it, I get Rs.150 only

gx - hmm, lemme think. Ok, do one thing, you get a small car as taxi (stripped down ), it will cost you only Rs.100. there wil not be CD player, no A/C

mediator - man, go by bus, you have to spend Rs.10 ! And may be you can learn how the driver manage the journey

din - sir, now if the car / bus has any problem, how can i continue journey to city ?

gx, mediator - oh man, listen, there are people called repairing guys. They will come and repair it. you need not worry on that.

End of the story.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> it was about the MS only content! and also hosted on live service!



So? what about it? Apple provides a Mac only service based blog on .Mac service, u don't blame them?

What MS only content r u talking about? 

I chosed live service, because it is free with hotmail account & I can post from Word 2007 directly & use many of the prebuilt themes. I m already looking for a HTML designer to make my own site which I have made in Photoshop, if u know someone who can do this for me, let me know. I will gladly switch to a site like gxsaurav.com


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tell me something, why do u need Vista home premium in an office or school? Do schools allow kids to play DirectX Games? Or does offices run HD Videos whole day?



Oh no, the stdents may never need vista at all

Ok, whats a decent Os form MS cost ?

Rs.3500 for XP ? agreed  ? Now is that big or Rs.50 for a Lin CD which can be used till lot of scratches are made on it ?

I never meant to say kids should use the ultimate win OS. Why paying huge $$$ when they can learn the same things using opensource / Lin ?


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You don't know about MS providing cheap basic edition for Offices?


 
Please don't talk about those worthless stripped down versions!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tell me something, why do u need Vista home premium in an office or school? Do schools allow kids to play DirectX Games? Or does offices run HD Videos whole day?


 
Why do you need Vista at all in office or schools when they are not going to be running DX10 games or watch HD movies like you said! What's the point you are tryng to make?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Linux is good if u want to run only one or 2 apps whole day. Add to it some music or browsing. Can't u already do the same in Vista Starter edition?


 
What is the misconception that you have about linux dude? Why do you say things like if you want to run one or 2 application whole day, it's better to use linux! Is this a joke? Do you understand that Linux is one of the only OS that is truly multicore(not just dual core) at heart? Do you understand the amount of multitasking that you can do? Have you even tried Openoffice 2.2? What's wrong with you dude? Why do you keep providing wrong information like only one or 2 applications will run all day on linux?

Besides, why wouldn't you want to implement linux in schools and offices? Answer this question and please don't answer it by saying that it doesn't make people aware of windows!


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

here are the features of ur vista "starter" edition:



> Much like Windows XP Starter Edition, this edition will be limited to emerging markets such as Brazil, Colombia, India, Thailand, Indonesia and the Philippines, mainly to offer a legal alternative to using unauthorized copies. It will not be available in the United States, Canada, Europe, or Australia.It will have many significant limitations, such as only allowing a user to launch three applications with a user interface at once, not accepting incoming network connections, a physical memory limit of 256 MB, and will run only in 32-bit mode etc.


@din
hehe.. well thot of story.. and very relevant too! 

@gx
temme wid only windows aren't their choices limited then?

edit: make it 1GB ram, 800x600 resolution, max 250gb hdd.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> here are the features of ur vista "starter" edition:



WOW, that allows "three" applications at a time !!! Thats eally nice


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## praka123 (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Like I asked u before, if you have a better way to protect the intellectuals property of the artist then plz come forward & give it to RIAA, MPAA so that they can tell MS to implement the new ones.
> 
> If U don't have any such method, then tell kids not to do piracy, cos after all, if they are software developers how will they feel when someone steals there software.
> 
> If U can't even tell the kids not to pirate softwares, then plz keep your mouth closed & stop spreading FUD about something which doesn't affect anyone in India.


Why do u get excited and opposes the reality?I thought of not reacting,but seriously grow up kid.DRM does means something too much restrictive!.

I always try to tell ppl reg Linux and many more than 20+ ppl & counting are already enjoying Ubuntu & Debian systems.many others dual boot.
infact they are amazed to know the philosophy behind it -Open Source!
*fsf.org
I educated many new to Linux,but most of the kids(teens) already knows what Linux is and except a few,most kids(teens) welcomed the Linux demo!
more embarassing  for win community in a near by college is when they saw what Beryl meant for 3-D in Linux..many people are excited meagrely more than a new Operating system.to use Linux for their daily use,what problemo?

piracy?  infact M$ is supporting piracy.now dont ask me how?cant they make a bullet proof WGA or whatever?they purposefully spread pirated windows for eg in China..marketing Fundas of cyborg.
Ohoo!
I think u better can sell Vista  in ur school(or college?) or college and tell me how many are gonna buy Vista Ulti-mate for 10000+  

ofcourse windows is needed for some few apps.i mean photoshop,autodesk s/w.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 7, 2007)

don't wish to leave the discussion but i gotta go complete my assignment!  i'll catch ye guys later...

ps: oh gx has left too....


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## QwertyManiac (Sep 7, 2007)

GX liked learning on those handicap systems at schools perhaps, which shows his state today .. .. >_>

Yeah well, I know am not being helpful but the truth is evident, no limits is always good.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

@HiH this time il only comment on 1 thing ... vista isnt a failure its not doing as well as market analysts expected it to and os x sint a success its doing fairly better than its last versions and OSS well it just keeps changing every 6 months


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> @HiH this time il only comment on 1 thing ... vista isnt a failure its not doing as well as market analysts expected it to and os x sint a success its doing fairly better than its last versions and OSS well it just keeps changing every 6 months


 
Until and unless vista overcomes it's current problems, it's still a failure. 

'Failure of Vista' is not a term coined by me. It's been repeatedly said by industry experts and interestingly few MVPs!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Rs.3500 for XP ? agreed  ? Now is that big or Rs.50 for a Lin CD which can be used till lot of scratches are made on it ?



Again, why r u comparing Retail version of XP in school? U do know that MS provides cheap edition for school in volume licensing.

Also, why do u care? Aren't many schools already using pirated Windows? So its free for them anyway.



> Please don't talk about those worthless stripped down versions!



Stripped down for what? Running tally? or running some banking software whole day? We are talking about Windows for one particular task here, in office, why do u need retail home premium for that? 



> Why do you need Vista at all in office or schools when they are not going to be running DX10 games or watch HD movies



To run the application they use, made for WIndows Platform



> Why do you say things like if you want to run one or 2 application whole day, it's better to use linux Is this a joke? Do you understand that Linux is one of the only OS that is truly multicore(not just dual core) at heart? Do you understand the amount of multitasking that you can do? Have you even tried Openoffice 2.2? What's wrong with you dude? Why do you keep providing wrong information like only one or 2 applications will run all day on linux



Tell me how many application the nodes in your office run whole day. Do they run Core 2 duo in all the nodes? You are talking like u can't run MS office on Vista starter edition.



> Besides, why wouldn't you want to implement linux in schools and offices? Answer this question and please don't answer it by saying that it doesn't make people aware of windows!



I m not saying not to implement Linux. I m just saying not to implement "only" Linux.



			
				IRD said:
			
		

> here are the features of ur vista "starter" edition:



Tell me an office in india which runs all computers C2D or other high end config. They are still running celerons for which starter edition is good enough.

Starter edition is indeed stripped & i myself hate the 3 apps & 800X600 thing, but think where it will be used. Do u need anything more then this in an office where all u run is one or 2 app whole day usually most of the time.



			
				Prakash said:
			
		

> DRM does means something too much restrictive!.



I know, so plz tell the artist, singers, movie producers a better way to stop piracy of there content & intellectual property. If you can't do that, then stop FUDing about DRM.



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Until and unless vista overcomes it's current problems, it's still a failure.



Until & unless Linux overcomes the marketing problems & standard unification problems, its still a failure in desktop home usage segment.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Again, why r u comparing Retail version of XP in school? U do know that MS provides cheap edition for school in volume licensing.
> 
> Also, why do u care? Aren't many schools already using pirated Windows? So its free for them anyway.



Already answered ! Cheap, thats Rs.50 per windows CD ? Can use it in any number of PCs ? Will it have everything a student need ?

Lin had it all and it cost Rs.50 or less

Schools are using pirated, lot of users are using pirated - Coz they do not get it *free* and they can't afford paying a lot of $$$$. Thats why all suggest, move to Lin / opensource where you need not pay a lot $$ and where you need not worry on piracy



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Stripped down for what? Running tally? or running some banking software whole day? We are talking about Windows for one particular task here, in office, why do u need retail home premium for that?


Exactly. Most offices will not run 100 apps like we do, so they can sure go for Lin - as suggested by you !! I mean you mentioned Lin can't handle more than 3 apps etc. They need not buy stripped win, instaed they can use un-stripped Lin

Hmm, I think stripping is only good in dance floors 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Starter edition is indeed stripped & i myself hate the 3 apps & 800X600 thing, but think where it will be used. Do u need anything more then this in an office where all u run is one or 2 app whole day usually most of the time.



Yes, you already answered it !! We do not need lot of things running in office and Lin will cater for offices. People need not buy stripped version at all.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Until & unless Linux overcomes the marketing problems & standard unification problems, its still a failure in desktop home usage segment.



LOL, as infra-red-dude and all other reputed members mentioned, open your eyes, please go through the links posted by them, mainly the first post in this thread. Look how many people / countries / offices are moving to Lin. Do you think they are all crazy and stupid to move to Lin ?


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Yes, you already answered it !! We do not need lot of things running in office and Lin will cater for offices. People need not buy stripped version at all.


You forgot the most important thing. What will that office run? If the application they use is made Windows platform, then what?

So, u r telling that Mcdonalds should switch to Linux, then tell the company which made there billing software to make it again for Linux this time, & buy that billing software again.

I guess they will prefer sticking to Windows, whatever version they are using.



> Look how many people / countries / offices are moving to Lin. Do you think they are all crazy and stupid to move to Lin ?


Tell granny to make a choice between Windows & Linux.

Offices are moving to lin cos that will cater them, if it doesn't they will stick with Windows.


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## kalpik (Sep 7, 2007)

@gx: dude.. not even offices run on 800x600 nowdays!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> @gx: dude.. not even offices run on 800x600 nowdays!



I know & this is the only reason I say MS is wrong with starter edition


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You forgot the most important thing. What will that office run? If the application they use is made Windows platform, then what?



What if the office software is opensource or Lin compatable ? evenif the re-deelop everything in Lin and expand their business, they will save a lot. Just google for the amount LIC saved just coz they moved from Win to Lin.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So, u r telling that Mcdonalds should switch to Linux, then tell the company which made there billing software to make it again for Linux this time, & buy that billing software again.
> 
> I guess they will prefer sticking to Windows, whatever version they are using.



LOl, I think I will give up !! Man, last time, please try to open your eyes. LIC moved to Lin. IRCTC moved to Lin. This is not only in India. All over the world people, companies and offices are moving to Lin and money is NOT the only thing. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tell granny to make a choice between Windows & Linux.



Great, nice point. I also agree. The best thing we can do is, ask old people as well as kids to move to Linux. The reason is they are new to computers and it will be easy for em not to be an MS addict ! Good point.


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## mehulved (Sep 7, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> @gx: dude.. not even offices run on 800x600 nowdays!


Do you know KDE4 release is around the corner? They need bug testers and developers. You would do better spending your time there then wasting it on trying to chase something that refuses to budge.


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## mediator (Sep 7, 2007)

gx said:
			
		

> But yeah, MS should indeed lower prices world wide, $150 for ultimate thre. Thats it...no other edition





> At Novell's recently launched Vista/Linux comparison site, SLED costs only $50 compared to Vista Business's $299. Adding in Microsoft Office Professional 2007 for Windows Vista dumps another $499 on the Microsoft bill. *When it comes to price, SLED for business appears to beat the tar out of Vista Business.*


 Source
So u see even if u reduce it to $150 then also, companies and users most probably wont go for MS recent/any/full fledged editions, coz the collective price difference between $50 and $150 wud be huge, not to mention how small companies in INDIA itself use freely available linux distroos like fedora to meet the requirements and work. Besides if u, by any chance, had read the 2 threads I created today, u wud know govts are trying to move away from proprietary systems as much as possible and windows hardly has any learning curve associated with it!!



			
				Help-is-here said:
			
		

> Please don't talk about those worthless stripped down versions!


 I fully agree! 



			
				din said:
			
		

> LOl, I think I will give up !! Man, last time, please try to open your eyes. LIC moved to Lin. IRCTC moved to Lin. This is not only in India. All over the world people, companies and offices are moving to Lin and money is NOT the only thing.


 Article! 


I guess people in this lovely discussion forgot to read the other thread. *www.smileyhut.com/eat_drink/snack.gif


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> What if the office software is opensource or Lin compatable ?



Then it makes sence to switch to Linux . Was I wrong when I said it all developes on what application the office is going to run.?


> even if the re-deelop everything in Lin and expand their business, they will save a lot.



I don't know about this TCO of Linux, so better not talk.


> LOl, I think I will give up !! Man, last time, please try to open your eyes. LIC moved to Lin. IRCTC moved to Lin. This is not only in India. All over the world people, companies and offices are moving to Lin and *money is NOT the only thing.*



Oh comon....just go & ask IRCTC & LIC the reason why they switched to Linux. 

Answer - Saving the cost of an OS


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Oh comon....just go & ask IRCTC & LIC the reason why they switched to Linux.
> Answer - Saving the cost of an OS



Yes, plus they were in need of something that is more *secure, reliable and better*  

Afterall LIC / IRCTC can't just go wrong


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Yes, plus they were in need of something that is more *secure, reliable and better*



Secure, yes & we all know why.

Reliable & Better, questionable.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Reliable & Better, questionable.



Yes, questionable for non-experts like Din and other people like him.

But

Unquestionable for all those great and expert people behind the move  They knew what they were doing and they were not just playing with so much valuable data ! 

As I mentioned before LIC and IRCTC are not just like us, they can't go wrong with so much business and trust. They both implemented it only after a detailed study and analysis.

Would you please explain why the system implemented by LIC / IRCTC are not reliable and not better ? I am not sure, so if you have any more info on these, please enlighten me / us. From your post it sounds like you have some valid points against their move. Please explain.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

So, in a manner all you guys want is

1) Microsoft should release Windows for free

2) Microsoft should close the company pack the business, & then die

3) Microsoft should stop developing technologies for Windows which makes users experience better on Windows, such as DirectX, Windows Media Player, or Office 2007.

4) Microsoft should make IIS 7 & other such server things free

5) Microsoft should stop complying by the rules imposed by government bodies such as MPAA & RIAA, doing which might take away there license of running a company.

6) Microsoft should stop caring about the developers who work there.

7) They should stop caring about the full time research & development going on in Microsoft campus & release these technologies to all users world wide for free which takes millions of dollars to develop & research.

8 ) Linux should rule the world, even with slow rate of development. Keep in mind 70% of all Linux developers are hobbyist for Linux who work somewhere else too & work on Linux too.

9) Software developers should make & release software for free, killing there innovation so that there are 1000000000000000 versions of a Calculator.

10) They only way Microsoft & software developers should make money is by giving service by either phone or mail. That too at a very low rate of $10/ incident.

Well.....if you guys don't like the current Windows & Microsoft business strategy then plz come up with ways to make Windows better & to change the current business strategy of MS so that they can still make profit & run a business, while doing research & development.

If you can't do this, then you are a fanboy who just hates Microsoft & there product just for the sake of hating it, who has no idea how a software business is run. So plz stop whining.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh my dear gx_saurav

LOL, just couldn't control my laughter actually ROTFL 

First - none of the points you mentioned above comes anywhere near the topic or discussion !!!

The discussion is all about people / companies / countries moving to Lin from Win and more and more find Lin a better solution - a lot of factors and of course money may be the first thing.

No one here asked MS to make things for FREE or ask developers to release their softwares for free. Afterall we all need money to survive.

The discussion mainly points to the present trend - Goverments, officials, politicians all started realising things. They know

1. An alternative is there !

2. It is sometimes better than the current one.

3. It is sometimes more reliable, better, secure and $$$ saving.

Linux can't replace win in a day. It may take sometime. The shift is slow, but sure

And above all, for India (infra_red_dude is not 100% right, but hes 200% right in this) the BEST thing is opensource. 

Remember, not all get the Win for free. And not everyone want to go  pirated too. So Lin stands for a $$ saving alternative. There are a lot of other reason too.

Supporting Lin or opensource is NOT fanboyism. The reason - You are not supporting a company blindly. Lin or opensource means a large group of people who want to help others.

Remember

Company - First aim - $$$$$$$$$

Community - First aim - help others

When we blindly support a company, yes, we are all fanboys, when we support our own community who really want to help others in many ways - we are not suitable for the name - fanboy  as simple as it is !!!

Infra, you better finish your assignment and come back soon else I will come to Blore rt now (lol, just kidding)


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Remember, not all get the Win for free.



They pirate & then use Windows.



> And not everyone want to go  pirated too.



They buy & then use Windows



> So Lin stands for a $$ saving alternative.



For those who want an OS for free, & for whome time isn't money.



> Supporting Lin or opensource is NOT fanboyism. The reason - You are not supporting a company blindly.



Aren't Linboys doing fanboysim already? What do u conclude from the post of HiH or devil himself? Isn't supporting one thing only without listening to other's story fanboyism. I have never said why companies should not switch, I just said why companies should stick to Windows. 



> Lin or opensource means a large group of people who want to help others.



So, does that means Windows community doesn't exist.? Or Windows community doesn't help other community members & people?


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## contactpraven2001 (Sep 7, 2007)

well that's a good news ...............
now i think people understand linux is better then windows ...........


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## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> They pirate & then use Windows.



aint u one among them.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

vish786 said:
			
		

> aint u one among them.



Nope..I M using Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate here on my 4 years old computer along with genuine office 2007 standerd edition + Outlook 2007

Before this I was using genuine Windows XP Professional edition OEM with Office 2003 students edition which can be installed on upto 2 computers + Outlook 2003

Before that Windows 2000 pro SP2 (then XP came) with Office XP pro (multiple license) which I got from my father's office.

Before that....I was computer-less


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

Oh no !!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> For those who want an OS for free, & for whome time isn't money.



Ok, time = money for all businesses. LIC is a bad business ? IRCTC ? UTI Bank ? There are a lot offices / banks  where they use OS (server/desktop) thats not Win and where time = money.  It is not just money and it is not just they have a lot of time to fool around. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So, does that means Windows community doesn't exist.? Or Windows community doesn't help other community members & people?



I never meant lin community or opensource community alone. All community support each other and it is good. But blindly supporting a corporation sounds fanboyism to me. Same if people argue Red Hat is the best thing or everything Red Hat does is good. They are fanboys. I may not be right, it is just my opnion, not a general one.


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## RCuber (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) Microsoft should release Windows for free



No. We want to choose what we want. Window , Linux , OS X , Solaris. 



> 2) Microsoft should close the company pack the business, & then die
> 
> 3) Microsoft should stop developing technologies for Windows which makes users experience better on Windows, such as DirectX, Windows Media Player, or Office 2007.
> 
> 4) Microsoft should make IIS 7 & other such server things free



No. Microsoft does provide good software, they have all the rights to charge for what they have invested and developed. Its only the choice of the end user whether to use it or not.



> 5) Microsoft should stop complying by the rules imposed by government bodies such as MPAA & RIAA, doing which might take away there license of running a company.
> 
> 6) Microsoft should stop caring about the developers who work there.
> 
> 7) They should stop caring about the full time research & development going on in Microsoft campus & release these technologies to all users world wide for free which takes millions of dollars to develop & research.



No again. 



> 8 ) Linux should rule the world, even with slow rate of development. Keep in mind 70% of all Linux developers are hobbyist for Linux who work somewhere else too & work on Linux too.



I choose .NET as a hobby .. now its my career. Others choose linux as hobby and now its their career. Now Linux is my hobby  and who knows it may be my future career. 



> 9) Software developers should make & release software for free, killing there innovation so that there are 1000000000000000 versions of a Calculator.


Solaris 10 is free right? even they have invested millions in it. Sun simply choose to make it free. Its again the companys choice, if they want they will make it free else they will ask us to pay them to use their product.



> 10) They only way Microsoft & software developers should make money is by giving service by either phone or mail. That too at a very low rate of $10/ incident.



The softwares should be affordable.. thats all.

To wrap it up.... Its the choice that matters, not if its free or paid. If I like a paid product which does my job better than the free one then I will pay for it. Same goes the other way also. If a free software does what I need then there is no point going for a paid one. 

All the companies/schools/colleges not startup guys who dont know anything about computer at all. They have used windows and all other software. They did like the product or it was not working out for them .. so they are looking at other options ( CHOICE ) .


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## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Before that....I was computer-less



i can understand what that statement exactly means.  Never mind.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

vish786 said:
			
		

> aint u one among them.



Vish, four types of people here

1. Got Win for free (full version, student ver etc) - officially

2. Got win pirated

3. Got win from others, like form office, from relatives etc

4. People spent their money to buy Win

Not all people use pirated CDs. There are genuine users.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> But blindly supporting a corporation sounds fanboyism to me. Same if people argue Red Hat is the best thing or everything Red Hat does is good. They are fanboys. I may not be right, it is just my opnion, not a general one.



In the same context should I say that blindly supporting Linux is also fanboyism (such as prakash or HiH)



> No. We want to choose what we want. Window , Linux , OS X , Solaris.



Is Microsoft stopping you from making your own choice & using OS of your choice on your computer?



> Its only the choice of the end user whether to use it or not.



You now know the Golden truth of computing. I hope now u will leave fanboyism.



> Solaris 10 is free right? even they have invested millions in it. Sun simply choose to make it free.



AFAIK, Solaris 10 is linux, right?



> The softwares should be affordable.. thats all.



Yup, good. Plz provide MS this feedback



> All the companies/schools/colleges not startup guys who dont know anything about computer at all. They have used windows and all other software. They did like the product or it was not working out for them .. so they are looking at other options



Yup, they are. Also advice others to have a look. But why call Microsoft Evil if it is complying by the rules of goverment to include DRM support in an OS.?


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> In the same context should I say that blindly supporting Linux is also fanboyism (such as prakash or HiH)



You posted it first and I was giving my definition. I didn't name anyone and do not want to name anyone either. It is very clear aftarall.

Well, leave al these, will go back to discussion.

My bro-in-law just came back form school (hes a high school teacher) and said they are giving equal importance to win / lin in school. That sounds like a good idea.


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## RCuber (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You now know the Golden truth of computing. I hope now u will leave fanboyism.


    me a fanboy?  I am a fanboy of what? Pls tell me how you call me a fanboy 



> AFAIK, Solaris 10 is linux, right?


Nope its based on Unix. It was closed source till solaris 10 was launched.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Charan said:
			
		

> me a fanboy?  I am a fanboy of what? Pls tell me how you call me a fanboy


Woops, I confused u with devil_himself



> Nope its based on Unix. It was closed source till solaris 10 was launched.



What is the overall server market share of Solaris 10? It could be a business tactics that by making it free more users will jump to it for there server needs, & then pay for the support cos Solaris is not Windows due to which they will sure need to learn & make goof ups.


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## din (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> It could be a business tactics that by making it free more users will jump to it for there server needs, & then pay for the support cos Solaris is not Windows due to which they will sure need to learn & make goof ups.



Very similar to MS isn't it ? ! They make the starter editions / stripped down / education versions etc and for final version a good amount of $$$$.

Oh, well all corporates !


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> In the same context should I say that blindly supporting Linux is also fanboyism (such as prakash or HiH)


 
Dude, ok, if we both are supporting linux blindly, then what about all the other people supporting linux? Dude, if you have a personal problem with both of us, keep it personal, you don't need to come out here and flame telling that we are fanboys and supporting linux blindly, we know what we are talking about. After all, we are elder to you and we make more mature decisions and like I've been saying from the very begenning gx, learn to 'respect', that's one thing you seriously need to work on.

First of all, we are not supporting a 'company' or a specific 'product', we are supporting a community and there is no fanboyism involved in supporting a community! Why are you trying to make us all fanboys and yourself as the most intellingent one? What's wrong with you gx?

And what is this?


			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I know & this is the only reason I say MS is wrong with starter edition


 
First you keep arguing that Starter editions are the best for schools and offices and it has everything at a low price, then you admit that it is a mistake? huh?  



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Until & unless Linux overcomes the marketing problems & standard unification problems, its still a failure in desktop home usage segment.


 
Linux is never a failure, because they don't market things that you don't get. In linux, 'What you see it what you get!'(WYSIWYG)
Nobody expects anything from linux, so it will never fail, because it always 'underpromises and overdelivers!' Now, once you grow up and start working with companies, then you will come to know how important the difference is between 'underpromising and overdelivering' and 'overpromising and underdelivering'. Vista is a failure because MS simply overpomised and the product without any doubt underdelivered! Don't keep arguing on this, because if you do, I'll have to shame you by binging evidence from MS developers and MVPs who confess on this! So don't bother.

@gx, no one on this thread started saying that windows is crap till you started defending it like a fanboy! The main point of this thread is the no. of people who are realizing the fact that there are things better than 'windows'

We are not saying that MS is a looser and doesn't know how to make money, all we are saying is that OSS softwares like Linux and the soon to be released OSS Solaris are way more *attractive, reliable, stable, better and economical* than Windows! Get that fact into your brain! And stop being a winfanatic by telling things like it's not better, for you it might not be, but there are a million people who have realized that it's better than windows for them!

@gx, I guess I told you this long back, 'What you think is best is not best of everyone else'! Because of the simple fact that the way you do computing is not how everyone else in the world does computing, perhaps you need to read that 'fanboy' thread that was featured in magazine to understand this point once again!

Whether you like it or not gx, millions of people are finding OSS like Linux way better than Windows, and they are moving to it, now if you still think that Windows is better and that it's always going to better than anything, keep using it, but please don't keep arguing and try to push your thought down everyone else's throat just because you think it's better, understand that everyone has different needs and everyones computing experience is unique!

And for the love of god, stop calling linux users Fanboys and Windows users intellingent!


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## Garbage (Sep 7, 2007)

@ gx_saurav,

as HiH said, No one here said *"Windows is cr@p OS."*. It means, no one is opposing Windows !!! (mind this please)

Now, the thing we all are trying to convey you is that *There is a BETTER ALTERNATIVE to windows which can save lot of $$$ and is more Secure.*
So, u can go for that !!!

And can u please check this, what the term fanboyism means !!


> Fanboy is a term used to describe an individual (usually male, though the feminine version fangirl may be used for females) who is *utterly devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession.* Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession, *disregarding any factors that differ from their point of view.*



NOW, tell who is FANBOY !!!


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

shirish_nagar said:
			
		

> @ gx_saurav,
> 
> as HiH said, No one here said *"Windows is cr@p OS."*. It means, no one is opposing Windows !!! (mind this please)
> 
> ...


 
He's opened his own new thread DEFENDING windows to prove that he is not a fanboy!! lol...  

When I put the truth on his face on that thread.. he reported it saying it has nothing to do with the thread..  lol... We all know who's the Fanboy now!


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## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

^ Yeah


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

hey guys i'm back! 

oooooooooooooooooh.... the thread has become serpentine long! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So, in a manner all you guys want is
> 
> 1) Microsoft should release Windows for free
> 
> ...


reply to ur 1..2..3..4..5..6..7...8.......................................1000000000000000000th point... USE FOSS where it can be used!

Don't upgrade PCs in govt. offices if its not necessary and ONLY for the sake of running a newer version of windows. use a system which is more reliable than windows in atms (yes din, i jus returned back from a corporation bank atm which was down due to windows BSOD!!!! bloody fools!). you haf a choice.. don't chose crippled versions of software!

save $$$$ by moving to FOSS wherever its feasible, coz after all its OUR money paid as taxes which is used up to BUY new hardware and WINDOWS! in the end we see an atm down due to bsod!!! umph.... 

ps: btw, GX all the points u've pointed out are either false, absurd or cooked up and don't make any sense. if you've read thru these 4 pages then even a non-tech person can infer what discussion is going on here.


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## kalpik (Sep 8, 2007)

@gx: Lets talk about home users.. Majority of them get windows for free.. Right? Then why have i seen soooooo many of such users shift to linux? And dont tell me that they were afraid of piracy.. That's not the reason..


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## din (Sep 9, 2007)

Sorry for my last post regarding computers in schools, actually I was mistaken.

All schools in Kerala are moving to Debian as OS and it is officially announced. Many schools already moved and others are on it.

All the things which they need for schools are working perfect in the Lin systems. Of course, problems are there, like even teachers are not that familiar, but it will be alright as time goes. They are providing training and the Linux groups / similar organizations help the students / teachers.

Good move Kerala, sure other states will follow the same.


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## mediator (Sep 23, 2007)

Well there's more now!!


> *'Open Minds' want Linux and open source in American schools*
> 
> Many other countries are turning to Linux and open-source for their school-house computer needs, and now there's a conference for those who want to bring it to schools in the U.S.
> 
> ...


Source
Cool hun?


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## Garbage (Sep 23, 2007)

^^ yeh, absolutely Cooooool news !!!


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## faraaz (Sep 23, 2007)

Well...this reminds of how my cousin's University wouldn't let him access to the wireless net and the Uni network because he had a pirated copy of Windows on his laptop...

I had an OEM copy which came with my laptop, so I'm okay at my Uni...but if only he'd been running Linux, he wouldn't have had to shell out 125 USD...


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## mediator (Sep 23, 2007)

^Thats a great step from ur cuz's university to stop piracy!! I wish the whole world starts doing that!


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 24, 2007)

good good  so finally the americans are inspired by kerala schools


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## gary4gar (Sep 24, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> Well...this reminds of how my cousin's University wouldn't let him access to the wireless net and the Uni network because he had a pirated copy of Windows on his laptop...
> 
> I had an OEM copy which came with my laptop, so I'm okay at my Uni...but if only he'd been running Linux, he wouldn't have had to shell out 125 USD...


if by chance indian govt starts taking piracy seriously & uses the measures like this windows is soon going to loose atleast 10-15% of its market share


@faraaz
i curious to know who do they know which software copy is original & which is pirated??
also do the care about windows only for also about the other apps installed like office software,security softwares etc


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