# China vs India



## witnesstheday (Jul 25, 2008)

> China vs India: which is better? - For all of 2006 and till October 2007, the Chinese stock markets were on a roll. From a paltry 1,220 in December 2005, the Shanghai Composite Index multiplied 4.27 times to 6,429 by October, registering one of the most rapid rises in stock markets across the globe. During the same period, the Dow appreciated by just 32 per cent, the FTSE by 20 per cent, the Nikkei by 8.5 per cent, Hang Seng by 114 per cent and Sensex by 115 per cent.
> 
> Why India might overtake China - That, in fact, was the title of a recent white paper by the Chicago-based consultancy Keystone-India, founded by a group of top economists from Ernst & Young who believe that India is on track to surpass China in growth. "We believe this is India's moment," declares Keystone Chief Economist William T Wilson.




*www.politicsdebate.co.uk/politics31.html

Will India and China be military allies or will they be supicious of each others' fortunes and ambitions?


----------



## cooldudie3 (Jul 25, 2008)

i live in Hong Kong so I think China is better. Anyway, China is becoming a financial point in this world. Jobs are very easy to find there.


----------



## freshseasons (Jul 27, 2008)

cooldudie3 said:


> i live in Hong Kong so I think China is better. Anyway, China is becoming a financial point in this world. Jobs are very easy to find there.



  Apart from the fact that it is very wrong to quote someone who is already banned , i completely agree with you.China is way ahead of India in Terms of infra structure and development.   
  @ The Higher Beings on this forum.
   Please leave some people on this Forum for us to talk to ( How about like not banning ) .


----------



## ico (Jul 27, 2008)

//Offtopic:


freshseasons said:


> *@ The Higher Beings on this forum.
> Please leave some people on this Forum for us to talk to ( How about like not banning ) *.


How the hell is this thing related to the topic?? I think you should refrain from making these types of comments......


----------



## freshseasons (Jul 27, 2008)

gagandeep said:


> //Offtopic:
> 
> How the hell is this thing related to the topic?? I think you should refrain from making these types of comments......



   You couldnt be more right.Nor in Hell nor in Heaven this was not related to the topic.I should at all cost stick to the topic. It was bad intention or rather despondency on my part, for i am really scared seeing the banned peoples list.
  Either the people are taking lots of liberty here to get banned or then...no not now.I should stick to the topic.
    If it were in China and considering the Human rights violation I would be shot dead by now posting in some forum about banned members.I am Lucky that this forum is part of India managed by good samaritan Indians.I seriously hope this includes India Vs china topic.
  Still you know its really difficult quoting banned members quotes as they are in no position to reply.Ohh no not again...i should stick to the topic...My Bad .So long.


----------



## ico (Jul 28, 2008)

Well, I would really appreciate the 1 child law forcibly undertaken by the Chinese government to get the population under control......India also needs it. And sometimes I feel, that Democracy is getting this country messed up......People make wrong use of it.



freshseasons said:


> You couldnt be more right.Nor in Hell nor in Heaven this was not related to the topic.I should at all cost stick to the topic. It was bad intention or rather despondency on my part, for i am really scared seeing the banned peoples list.
> Either the people are taking lots of liberty here to get banned or then...no not now.I should stick to the topic.
> If it were in China and considering the Human rights violation I would be shot dead by now posting in some forum about banned members.I am Lucky that this forum is part of India managed by good samaritan Indians.I seriously hope this includes India Vs china topic.
> Still you know its really difficult quoting banned members quotes as they are in no position to reply.Ohh no not again...i should stick to the topic...My Bad .So long.


Well, my friend......The moderators here are doing their job well......Its not that they're dictating over us........And you're banned only if you commit any mistake........Not just like that.......If I can remember correctly, I was the 1st guy over here who had put "Decrease the permanent ban for Praka123" in my signature.......Prakash indeed deserved some punishment but its not like we can just throw him away in the dustbin by permanently banning him. I know that I too was being offtopic in my previous post, but what I actually meant in that 'offtopic' thing was actually, not relate the situations with the Forum.....


----------



## laptops4u (Jul 29, 2008)

in china do they realy care indians ? or they dont like us ?


----------



## threeonethree (Jul 29, 2008)

are you kidding me ? there is no way india can compete with china.. just look at the state of affairs in india. the curruption the poverty . we dont have the infrastructure.we dont have  a powerful army as china . and to top it all , china doesnt have politicians like india, they have more control. in china they banned vehicles on the road for the beijing games and people also complied, can you see this happening in india? in india, our govt almost collapsed because of 1 nuke deal. seriously india is a joke compared to china.


----------



## freshseasons (Jul 30, 2008)

^^^ But we have Bollywood where movies like Love Story 2050 are made ! 
    As far as movies like these are made , and fathers love for son live  and take him to this decadence of making this movie , India will always be ahead.
  I love India


----------



## threeonethree (Jul 31, 2008)

they have jackie chan and bruce lee, we have rajikanth. end of film discussion..

besides their industry is also very good imo..


----------



## threeonethree (Jul 31, 2008)

overtaken china? . i dont want to be seen as rude but can you justify that to me? 

india:
*www.romanvirdi.com/delhi/old_delhi_from_jama_masjid.JPG

china:
*www.hotelsbycity.net/images/travelguides/int/china/beijing-big.jpg


----------



## chesss (Aug 1, 2008)

Indian women are wayyy hotter than chinese. 

End of story


----------



## Renny (Aug 1, 2008)

@ threeonethree ,

Stop being so naive and stop criticizing India, 

You show pics of some Indian slum and Shanghai's skyline  , 
*
Please read all my points,*

1. China is ahead of us because they liberalized their economy 15 years before us, what else do you expect, and they pushed their reforms aggressively,

2. China's GDP is mainly composed of Manufacturing, and China doesn't have home-grown companies like India, MOST of the companies in China are Foreign ones,  they can easily stop manufacturing in China and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it,

3. China is heavily dependent on FDI, India's GDP (50%) of it is composed of the services sector which demands corporate skills and a sound education, 

4. If you were in China your home would've been razed for a 4 lane highway and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it,

5. So they have Jackie Chan, does that make them better? BTW how old are you, your comments seem incredibly childish  , Chinks can make only Kung Fu flicks, we can make any type of movie we want,

6. India faces a lot of external and internal aggression, but we cope with all these difficulties and we are on a road towards great economic and military might  ,

7. Ya and Indian chicks look much better than Chinese girls  ,

8. You seem to be one of the victims of Chinese "propaganda" , you look at their skyscrapers and bloated statistics and you get awestruck  .

9. You think skyscrapers are the only indication of a countries progress, well Mumbai is gonna have a 1000ft skyscraper by 2010 and thats only the beginning,

If you are so fed up *GET OUTTA HERE,* it really wont be much of a loss for us  , 

You want to criticize anyone, criticize out politicians.


----------



## threeonethree (Aug 1, 2008)

i lost all my will to argue with you after i realised that you reffered to the chinese as "chinks" . get out of here you racist punk.
but anyways for your satisfaction?



> 1. China is ahead of us because they liberalized their economy 15 years before us, what else do you expect, and they pushed their reforms aggressively,


so whose fault is that india didnt liberalized their economy? is it chinas fault? you will say its the fault of the politicians, but arent the politicians citizens of india? and if they were doing wrong, where were other indians? this is supposed to be a democracy isnt it? 



> 2. China's GDP is mainly composed of Manufacturing, and China doesn't have home-grown companies like India, MOST of the companies in China are Foreign ones, they can easily stop manufacturing in China and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it,


say what you want to , but arent the chinese ahead? thats not the current situation.



> 3. China is heavily dependent on FDI, India's GDP (50%) of it is composed of the services sector which demands corporate skills and a sound education,


again. my first point.. it that chinas fault? or any other countries fault? and dont you dare put  "sound education" and india in one line. do you know about chinas education system? i think its the main reason its ahead.





> 4. If you were in China your home would've been razed for a 4 lane highway and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it,


atleast they get a home in china. haha.



> 5. So they have Jackie Chan, does that make them better? BTW how old are you, your comments seem incredibly childish  , Chinks can make only Kung Fu flicks, we can make any type of movie we want,


 
... 



> 6. India faces a lot of external and internal aggression, but we cope with all these difficulties and we are on a road towards great economic and military might  ,


doesnt china face internal aggression and external aggression and face tough competition? ever heard about tibet?



> 7. Ya and Indian chicks look much better than Chinese girls  ,


 
....



> 8. You seem to be one of the victims of Chinese "propaganda" , you look at their skyscrapers and bloated statistics and you get awestruck  .


 
i have no connection to the chinese. i am stating the facts.



> 9. You think skyscrapers are the only indication of a countries progress, well Mumbai is gonna have a 1000ft skyscraper by 2010 and thats only the beginning,


 
i bet that skyscraper will drawn in the very next rain due to bad drainage.



> If you are so fed up *GET OUTTA HERE,* it really wont be much of a loss for us


 
fanboy..

now i think that i should refrain from stating the facts to people who are blinded and cant see anything. i should refrain from telling an indian how sorry the state here is. 

its like going to a funeral of a man who died of kidney failure and saying " i am glad that he died. he was a bewada" . even though you are right , you will recieve flak. i thought the people were more open minded here.


----------



## Renny (Aug 1, 2008)

Well go to Youtube and see you'll come across loads of videos of Chinese calling Indians paki etc. and referring to us as "stinky Indians", "ugly black Indians", well maybe you're extremely thick-skinned but I cant tolerate such insult  , you chump.

I COMPLETELY agree with you that China is ahead in economy and military, I wouldn't be doing this if I was a fanboy,
I'm just pointing out the facts why they are ahead of us, and I entirely blame out politicians for our situation,

Remember your other post where you were whining about how people listen to Shaan, watch Hindi flicks etc. well aren't you in a way degrading those people, and you calling me racist?! Well first clean the dirt on your own back before telling others  .



threeonethree said:


> atleast they get a home in china. haha.
> 
> i bet that skyscraper will drawn in the very next rain due to bad drainage.



Even Indians have homes mate, look around you there are homes and even poor people live in homes  , and even Chinese are homeless or do you have 100% proof all Chinese live under roofs  ,

Drown in next rains, 
rain drainage!! Oh yea the rain might wash away the building like a paper boat,
Well if thats the best you can come up with  .


And you too seem too be a racist you punk, always under estimating Indians and thinking Indians are useless.



threeonethree said:


> atleast they get a home in china. haha.



So you'd be one of fellas to give up your house readily for demolition, gr8  .


> ever heard about tibet?


Do you know China is torturing ethnic Tibetians and marginalizing them? There are graphic vids on Youtube, 

Han Chinese are flooding Tibet and destroying Tibetian culture,

And most Ethnic Tibetians are exploited and treated like vermin by the PRC.


----------



## threeonethree (Aug 1, 2008)

> Well go to Youtube and see you'll come across loads of videos of Chinese calling Indians paki etc. and referring to us as "stinky Indians", "ugly black Indians", well maybe you're extremely thick-skinned but I cant tolerate such insult  , you chump.


what does that mean?i see no chinese people calling indians paki in this thread.you are the only racist here. get a life.




> Remember your other post where you were whining about how people listen to Shaan, watch Hindi flicks etc. well aren't you in a way degrading those people, and you calling me racist?! Well first clean the dirt on your own back before telling others  .


 
you need to review your defination of racist. i am myself indian and i cant be racist against them . and just stating the obvious doesnt make me racist.



> Even Indians have homes mate, look around you there are homes and even poor people live in homes  , and even Chinese are homeless or do you have 100% proof all Chinese live under roofs  ,


what i meant was that chinese are more well off ..



> Drown in next rains,
> rain drainage!! Oh yea the rain might wash away the building like a paper boat,
> Well if thats the best you can come up with  .


their cities are more well planned and have proper drainage, lighting, power , water etc.



> And you too seem too be a racist you punk, always under estimating Indians and thinking Indians are useless.


can you tell me something i said which makes me racist? when did i say indians are useless. and i am just voicing my opinion , if you dont like it , get out. its called free speech.




> So you'd be one of fellas to give up your house readily for demolition, gr8  .
> Do you know China is torturing ethnic Tibetians and marginalizing them? There are graphic vids on Youtube,


the kashmiris claim the same thing the tibet people claim. not that i am against both of them...


shut up and crawl back into your cave.


----------



## Renny (Aug 1, 2008)

*in.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb7T5EFzljQ

*in.youtube.com/watch?v=NsUtjhXx6DI&feature=related

Check out those videos you fool, cant even search can you, I'm racist towards them because of those videos, Now don't go saying they aint Chinese cos they are Han Chinese,

And if you meant they are well off theres better ways to convey it like what you said now,

And FYI free speech doesn't mean unnecessarily degrading ppl, get out and learn some manners,

"Shut up and crawl back to your cave?" , First you crawl back to your $hit hole, And why so angry dude, its just a debate.


----------



## threeonethree (Aug 1, 2008)

~Rahul~ said:


> I'm racist towards them


end of discussion.



> First you crawl back to your $hit hole,





> And why so angry dude, its just a debate.


 
you need a brain implant.


----------



## Renny (Aug 1, 2008)

Saw the videos, can't retaliate can you, you just quote something out of context what sense does it make, and if someone slaps you wont you retaliate?

Well you need some anger management and some psychotherapy ,

And dude enough to this pointless bickering between both of us, bickering isn't going to improve things, let there be no hard feelings dude, I call for a truce  .


----------



## freshseasons (Aug 1, 2008)

Ease off guys and cool down. I guess these kind of discussions happen when we don't accept the hard truth.
  China is way ahead of India and thats a fact of life. I know as an Indian it hurts but take it or leave it.
  If this discussion were to take in 2030 May be it would be better and equally justified.
  But  now .In 2008 !!! In this game whom are we kidding .
   Let discuss something along the line of , how India can compete China and overtake it.The steps that India should take to beat China.


----------



## Renny (Aug 2, 2008)

^ I completely agree with you buddy China is way ahead of us, overtaking them isn't going to be easy at all,

We can only start to compete with them by developing excellent physical infrastructure.


----------



## phuchungbhutia (Aug 2, 2008)

Do u watch news . . Ppl . . There was a news that the world body is downgrading india economic stance . . All because of govt policy of debt waiver and 6 pay commission . . Etc . .


----------



## freshseasons (Aug 3, 2008)

PRESENT STATUS of an Individual , me from a Small City Nagpur, Maharashtra .
  Right now there is no electricity since last 6 hours and i dont think my laptop can hold much.I cant go to internet cafe or to my friends home as there is no electricity there.Ohh one more thing. We are also not getting decent Petrol here.
   So how the hell do i debate this topic here.
  Thank God i wasn't  debating China Vs India with a Chinese. All the time he would be blasting and punning me to hell in this post on account of his connectivity if not anything and all i could do was wait for the electricity to come back.
   What would i type.
  " I will be back when there is electricity ,but right now till i am back India is Way ahead of Chin....oppss auto shutdown initiated...byeeee"


----------



## ico (Aug 3, 2008)

Check out this: **www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/05_34/B3948chinaindia.htm
*
*www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_34/b3948421.htm


----------



## iMav (Aug 4, 2008)

You guys should read TOI- Sunday Times, Shashi Tharoor's column this week is about Indo vs China. Must read. Nice article.


----------



## goobimama (Aug 4, 2008)

First and foremost we need to educate our illiterate and dirty public. A clean and healthy surrounding goes a long way in deciding who is ahead and who is behind. We need some strict laws against littering, and maybe a community forum to keep a check on those laws. Walking on the streets of China against walking on the streets of our metros and even the towns is a totally different affair. 

PS: Keep the anger down boys. Didn't notice this thread before.


----------



## IronManForever (Aug 4, 2008)

Mutipartite Democracy.. Phew! Things never go quick in the kind of system India has; especially infrastructural development, and I dont have to remind you of the dirty politics being played.

Individual rights cannot be curbed, but then again those rights when excercised completely, may not be in the interest of the whole state(country). In communist countries like china nationwide  policies are far easier to implement. We know the pros and the cons of that kind of system; ask yourself what would you like. 

Ground up developmental approach is lacking. Health isnt anything to brag about, poverty with little or no improvement. Without those, you can't and shouldnt complain about not having a faster broadband when so many boiling issues surface each moment.

And regarding coming overtaking china, this way, youd really need a miracle.

Regards,
IronMan


----------



## karmanya (Aug 4, 2008)

By introducing proper infrastructure; increasing our industries and reducing our dependencies on the bones the west throws at us(aka call centres). India can easily overtake china.
As far as cleanliness goes, china specifically beijing is so polluted, that the Olympics are in question, with countries flying in thier athletes hours before the event and flying them out directly afterwards.
I believe in the strength of the indian people. If motivated correctly(with leaders that give a damn) nothing can stop us.
Whats funny is that, india won't approve without proper leaders and we wont get proper leaders without educating the poor and we wont be able to educate the poor without proper leaders. Chicken and egg situation indeed.


----------



## threeonethree (Aug 4, 2008)

goobimama said:


> First and foremost we need to educate our illiterate and dirty public.


 
A wise man once said, "we are drowning in information but starved of knowledge".
i say " indians are drowning in ignorance and starved of food" .


----------



## mediator (Aug 4, 2008)

threeonethree said:


> are you kidding me ? there is no way india can compete with china.. just look at the state of affairs in india. *the curruption the poverty* . we dont have the infrastructure.we dont have  a powerful army as china . and to top it all , *china doesnt have politicians like india*, they have more control. in china they banned vehicles on the road for the beijing games and people also complied, can you see this happening in india? in india, our govt almost collapsed because of 1 nuke deal. *seriously india is a joke compared to china.*


May be! But I would still like to be born as an INDIAN again.. I won't take sides whether INDIA is better or china, but I think that at the end it comes down to the standard of living with friends all around and yes Freedom of speech u talked bt !!


----------



## nix (Aug 5, 2008)

actually, in india a lot of powerful politicans are misusing the system. if people at the top are corrupt, then surely the people at the bottom are going to suffer. and there is no one at the top of india's political system to check for bad apples. but in china, the govt has a very good hold of its people. and their leadership is dedicated to make their country no.1 .
 and very soon they are going to become the wordls sole superpower. they are rising rapidly. they have weapons in space too. we are really in big trouble coz its right beside us. see the whole world supports tibetans, but very few actually dare to speak out and confront the chinese. i support the tibetans too... they deserve a country. very good people. as a saying goes-people favor underdogs, but follow only topdogs...


----------



## iMav (Aug 5, 2008)

Here you go, read this. @Mediator, you will like this. Others too please read it.



			
				Shashi Tharoor said:
			
		

> *Why the elephant can dance better*
> 
> In an April 20 column, i argued the case for Sino-Indian economic cooperation, suggesting the two countries had complementarities that could make such co-operation mutually beneficial (as some companies in both countries are already proving). I also dismissed any talk of comparing India to China, arguing that the two countries’ systems are so different that we simply can’t compete with China in the growth stakes. Lest some readers infer from this that i think China is superior to India in every respect, let me assure them that they are wrong.
> 
> ...



Times of india, Sunday Times, 3rd August 08


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Aug 5, 2008)

I wouldn't like to be a citizen of chine right atm no matter how fast it is progressing.That pretty much sums it up I guess.


----------



## nix (Aug 5, 2008)

@imav, that article you posted isnt entirely convincing. sure, india is better when it comes to human rights and freedom and equality, but those are the only things in which india is better than china. how far can those get us? can it get us good roads? 

also the author talks of the chinese "limousine" breaking down if it came across a pothole. i think china has handled all trouble very well. and repression though aint good, has been there for 50+ years in china, i think there is no way the chinese govt is gonna let go of it.

also , the issue of land acquisition. see, a country needs to grow, to grow it needs space. now how are you going to grow if there aint any space to grow. now this is a real issue and both side have a valid point so im not going to arrive at conclusions on this one..


----------



## iMav (Aug 5, 2008)

^^ Why can't we get good roads, we don't need a military ruler or dictator all we need is someone with the will to do so. Saying that only a military ruler or a dictator can bring about radical development is naive. India has grown despite having the kind of negatives you talk about. It has got itself the respect of the world despite the governance you curse. It is considered as the best investment destination despite the politicians you despise. So if you say that only military rule and dictatorship are the way s of achieving development, then dude, I have nothing to debate with you about. If you are ready to give up your freedom and think that that is the only way of development then my friend you need to do some self-realization.


----------



## nix (Aug 5, 2008)

@imav: first of all, its very hard to find a politician in india who really wants to improve india. secondly, other political parties will not let you do so. take the recent nuclear deal for ex. 
politicians in india are busy making money themselves. they do not think about development. actually, to become a politician you need to spend a lot of money, so once you become a politician they first think of recovering what they have spent to get a ticket. then they plan development. but that rarely happens..soon they want more and more money..


----------



## iMav (Aug 5, 2008)

I did write an article on how our biggest strength - democracy is also our biggest vice, viz-a-vi Nuclear deal.

Indian Democracy Is Flawed At The Core

But saying that a dictator is the solution is stupid my friend.


----------



## shaunak (Aug 6, 2008)

On a lighter note: 
Adhe india ke peehce to Made in china likha hua hai.... phir kya poochna...


----------



## nix (Aug 6, 2008)

its not stupid, people in india have too much freedom and there are some who are misusing this freedom. india was better during british rule. once they left, mismanagement became rampant. you need to have some control. especially for india.


----------



## iMav (Aug 6, 2008)

Ah I see, medaitor you wanna take this?


----------



## mediator (Aug 7, 2008)

Man why do I feel I'm being watched by @imav? . You know there is a friend of mine (not in touch) who could read my thoughts. Deja Vu!
Yes, I wanted to reply, but playing guitar in the dead of the night feels much better! This is your thread I guess.


----------



## iMav (Aug 7, 2008)

nix said:


> its not stupid, people in india have too much freedom and there are some who are misusing this freedom. india was better during british rule. once they left, mismanagement became rampant. you need to have some control. especially for india.



So in one sentence, you mean to say Gandhi, Bhagat Singh, Mangal Pandey all died in vain?They died to give u the mess we live in today? They were wrong to stand up for their right and sacrifice their lives so that you can type the crap you are?

You'd rather want a Brit ruling us than we Tata going out and buying their presitge?


----------



## manishjha18 (Aug 7, 2008)

i think indian food is much better--they eat cockroaches,snakes,larva---
and besides this i support rahul-there is nothing wrong in supporting india-yes we have poly-ticks(politicians) who have ruined our country-right from quota to playing ugly games like that of amarnath shrine.
but what mao did was ruthless--for 2 decades all things related to old chinese cultures were destroyed.people killed.


----------



## veiga2412 (Aug 7, 2008)

When people mention how communism is 'so amazing', I think of Russia - Bloody Friday... 'nuf said.

And while we do have corruption & poverty & illiteracy, we have to consider that other "super powers" like the US had 200+ years to get where they are now after they cast off the yolk of British rule themselves. We've only had 50-odd years. Give us a bit more time and I'm sure we'll sort ourselves out.

Also, as far as I've hard we Are ahead, in terms of IT at least, when compared to China. Though I believe the disparity there is largely because of their lack of internationally acceptable language skills - a problem which they're already in the initial phases of fixing [Read as: expected to be on par in 5 years or less].

Ultimately the 'leader' will be whoever gives the best bang for the customers buck, and [again in IT here (sorry if my frame of knowledge is very limited)] that's currently India. We just need to make sure we continue to keep ahead of the curve there, and that's through being more efficient - work smart, not just work fast.


----------



## nix (Aug 7, 2008)

@imav: im not saying that the sacrifices of our great leaders of the yesteryears have gone waste. i never said that. i was referring to the law and order situation of that time to now where its just messed up. before british went and a few years after that, indians used to love each other. they used to be more patriotic.  they used to be honest. our freedom fighters gave us a gem of a country. but unfortunately our present day politicians did not inculcuate this. but now its all gone. how else can you explain the ban on SIMI lifted? how else can you explain criminals in parliament? how else can you explain a deve gowda becoming the PM? how else can you explain ill-treatement to our soldiers by bangla and pakistan and our fishermen in their jails and the avg indian doesnt feel a thing?. i can give you many examples of such things... 

not that i appreciate the chinese for their human rights track record. nor am i saying that india is inferior. india has come a long way and im grateful for being an indian. its just that we could have been a lot better if we did not engage in dirty politics.
and stop the personal insults... i dont want to enter the slanging match with you...


----------



## iMav (Aug 7, 2008)

nix said:


> @imav: im not saying that the sacrifices of our great leaders of the yesteryears have gone waste. i never said that. i was referring to the law and order situation of that time to now where its just messed up. before british went and a few years after that, indians used to love each other. they used to be more patriotic. they used to be honest. but now its all gone. how else can you explain the ban on SIMI lifted? how else can you explain criminals in parliament? how else can you explain a deve gowda becoming the PM? how else can you explain ill-treatement to our soldiers by bangla and pakistan and our fishermen in their jails and the avg indian doesnt feel a thing?. i can give you many examples of such things...


How about taking up the case and stqanding up rather than cursing? How about floating your own party, I shall vote for you. Can you do that? Off course I too hate the fact that we have criminals in the parliament, I too hate the fact that a criminal decides whether a govt has majority or no. But, I prefer and will die to have my own people ruling me rather than some brit telling me pee when he wants me to.

The ban on SIMI was lifted and FYI, it was stayed! How do you explain that? 

Nobody is perfect but I'd rather have someone of MY country someone of MY motherland, taking decisions. The criminals are in the parliament but did that stop Tata from buying the English? On what basis do say that having a dictator or a brit ruling us will rid us of all problems and give us the best life possible. Bengal has communist rule and the damn state is in a mess and I am not talking about Nandigram, I am referring to the state of living. No one is perfect but I prefer someone of my own country someone that my brothers elect to make mistakes rather being told by some fag that what I should do and what I should not.

Who says that the avg Indian doesn't feel a thing, I still remember during the Kargil war, all the students of my class gave out all our money, the money we used to save for canteen food, the money we used to save for our after-school birthday parties. 

The avg. Indian doesn't feel a thing, come here and see how people break communal divide when there is a bomb explosion, see how people grieve together. Go to a cricket stadium and see how people re-joice when a Pathan takes a wicket or a Dhoni hits a 6.

Don't for a moment tell me that my India would be better if I was ruled by some stupid brit.



nix said:


> not that i appreciate the chinese for their human rights track record. nor am i saying that india is inferior. india has come a long way and im grateful for being an indian. its just that we could have been a lot better had we elected the right leaders..


It came where it is with the leaders we had, it will go beyond with the leaders we have. It is the people who make the difference the leaders can only make policies, which again the people can influence.


nix said:


> and stop the personal insults... i dont want to enter the slanging match with you...


You should have thought about that before you told me that my life would be better when some english was ruling me.


----------



## New (Aug 8, 2008)

> am still wondering " Y isnt @threeonethree BANNED ?? " .........
> 
> anything said against our country should b punished .... isnt THAT chini rule ......
> __________________


+1..No one can beat us..


----------



## nix (Aug 8, 2008)

iMav said:


> How about taking up the case and stqanding up rather than cursing? How about floating your own party, I shall vote for you. Can you do that? Off course I too hate the fact that we have criminals in the parliament, I too hate the fact that a criminal decides whether a govt has majority or no. But, I prefer and will die to have my own people ruling me rather than some brit telling me pee when he wants me to.



id love to float my own party, if only i had the muscle power. nor do I have the blessings of any present politician. Im not a goon either. 



iMav said:


> The ban on SIMI was lifted and FYI, it was stayed! How do you explain that?



i know, but how do you explain the fact that it was lifted in the first place? 



iMav said:


> Who says that the avg Indian doesn't feel a thing, I still remember during the Kargil war, all the students of my class gave out all our money, the money we used to save for canteen food, the money we used to save for our after-school birthday parties.
> 
> The avg. Indian doesn't feel a thing, come here and see how people break communal divide when there is a bomb explosion, see how people grieve together. Go to a cricket stadium and see how people re-joice when a Pathan takes a wicket or a Dhoni hits a 6.



sure, i agree with you on some of those. but

what did the average indian feel when recently pakistan fired on our soldiers and one our soldiers died? it hardly even made it to the news...
what the did average indian feel china laid claim on arunachal pradesh? 
what did the average indian feel when mehbooba mufti said that we should be using pak currency in J&K?

mainly, the patriotism is reserved only for cricket...



iMav said:


> It came where it is with the leaders we had, it will go beyond with the leaders we have. It is the people who make the difference the leaders can only make policies, which again the people can influence.



people are being taken for a ride by politicical parties... tell me, do you think we can implement the one child norm in india...something that is necessary but out of favor among some people.


----------



## iMav (Aug 8, 2008)

Talk only if you have an alternative. If you think a dictator will give you a hunky-dory and rosy life then I again come to the fact that Bhagat Singh died for nothing and Gandhi wasted his entire life roaming in a dhoti, which is terribly sad to hear from anyone, especially an Indian of all.

If we had a dictator or Brit ruling us the death of a soldier would have been of more value to you? You would cried more? You my friend wouldn't even know. The freedom of press the reason why you get the news you see, the reason why bloggers have the right to talk is what makes India.


----------



## nix (Aug 8, 2008)

iMav said:


> Talk only if you have an alternative. If you think a dictator will give you a hunky-dory and rosy life then I again come to the fact that Bhagat Singh died for nothing and Gandhi wasted his entire life roaming in a dhoti, which is terribly sad to hear from anyone, especially an Indian of all.



what alternative? i cannot think of any alternatives other than a complete change in how in the indian political system works, how the govt servants work etc... can you suggest some alternatives?

i never said gandhi "wasted his entire life roaming in a dhoti". you said that, not me. 



iMav said:


> If we had a dictator or Brit ruling us the death of a soldier would have been of more value to you? You would cried more? You my friend wouldn't even know.



i never said that.  



iMav said:


> The freedom of press the reason why you get the news you see, the reason why bloggers have the right to talk is what makes India.



yes, freedom of speech is very essential.


----------



## mediator (Aug 8, 2008)

A thread for alternatives exists!
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55998

But saying INDIA was better during the british rule implies u know the full history of british rule with instances consisting of RACISM, the divide-rule policy, the mass scale murders etc?? They sowed the seed of "Kashmir trouble" with Hindu-Muslim divide which was later foolishly watered by Nehru. Then, may be it was better in Mughal rule??

I don't think its ripe to curse the past for present now, but instead learn lessons from it.


----------



## nix (Aug 9, 2008)

^i agree, its time to move forward. its time to change. but with the current political system set in place, its very difficult to bring about the radical change that we need.


----------



## cooldudie3 (Aug 9, 2008)

I'm back guys!
^^ You are right, this is the time for India to change to a world's country. 

This is *Hong Kong Skyline*(my city):
*www.hotelsbycity.net/images/travelguides/int/china/beijing-big.jpg
*Shanghai Skyline*:
*www.ghmadsen.com/Bilder/Kina/shanghai_skyline_g.jpg
*Mumbai*:*nfcindia.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/mumbai-lg.jpg
I think India isn't that bad.
Indian people: Ok manners, ok people
Chinese People: No manners, Push, Shove, Push
India Environment: Dirty, no such thing as hygiene
China Environment: Same, maybe better.

So you can see....


----------



## nix (Aug 10, 2008)

cooldudie3 said:


> I think India isn't that bad.


should be we satisfied with being "not bad". should we not aim for the gold. should we not take steps to ensure we get to the top. sure its not going to be easy. our politicians will not do it. so we need someone at the top who wil clean up the system. we need an authoritarian govt which will teach the current politicians a good lesson.



cooldudie3 said:


> Indian people: Ok manners, ok people


wrong. what do you mean by OK? you either have good manners or bad manners. you cant be on both sides of the line. there is nothing like "ok manners" okay...
ok people-again, i will say the same thing. there are not "ok" people.



cooldudie3 said:


> Chinese People: No manners, Push, Shove, Push


push, shove, push? are you kidding me? more pushing, shoving happens on indias buses and trains. in beijing, people were instructed to not spit, dirty the place. beijing looks like a city of some developed western power. we can try to do the same. our govt can try to instruct people. but will the people listen? no. the opposition will do just what it is programmed to do=oppose. a gaping loophole in our system. 

other two points you said were correct.


----------



## cooldudie3 (Aug 10, 2008)

You have not seen the people in China and you don't want to. They typically have no manners. And do you really think people are following the government? Think OUT of Beijing. There is shanghai, hangzhou, and other. If you want to know, go there. Order a 1 day trip from expedia


----------



## nix (Aug 10, 2008)

why cant you for once appreciate them for their olympic showing. or atleast only for beijing. sure there are other poor and dirty areas of china. but they managed to pull it off from one city. can india do that? can india make any one city, like beijing. beijing looks picture-postcard perfect...
did you see the cycling event on TV? their roads, so smooth. their tunnels and al were amazing. can we do that for commonwealth? no.


----------



## karnivore (Aug 10, 2008)

cooldudie3 said:


> There is shanghai, hangzhou, and other.


So the best way to judge a book is by its cover...

Oh BTW, Honk Kong comes with a "Made By Bits" label, in case you haven't noticed.



nix said:


> why cant you for once appreciate them for their olympic showing. or atleast only for beijing. sure there are other poor and dirty areas of china. but they managed to pull it off from one city. can india do that? can india make any one city, like beijing. beijing looks picture-postcard perfect...
> did you see the cycling event on TV? their roads, so smooth. their tunnels and al were amazing. can we do that for commonwealth? no.


Great show...but still China does not impress much. And I am glad that this country does not go to the extent that China does to make those glittery cities.



mediator said:


> A thread for alternatives exists!
> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55998


That thread was a nice show of mental masturbation...


----------



## nix (Aug 10, 2008)

karnivore said:


> Great show...but still China does not impress much. And I am glad that this country does not go to the extent that China does to make those glittery cities.



so ur satisfied with old and rusty building huh?.you are glad the country is not trying to improve?. we should take up the challenge to try and better beijing. we got an opportunity in form of commonwealth games... 

does not impress much?. they made the fastest train from the airport to the stadiums. they cleaned up their city. they taught their people how to welcome and talk to foreigners. they made so many arrangements, on time and of good quality. c'mon man the whole world is appreciating them for their olympics show..

india cannot, and should not try to do so. it will be a failure. you cannot go to the streets and teach people to be clean and not to spit.. they will laugh it off.


----------



## karnivore (Aug 10, 2008)

nix said:
			
		

> so ur satisfied with old and rusty building huh?.you are glad the country is not trying to improve?


Interpret it in any way you wish...but just to refresh your memory, the key phrase is "*does not go to the extent that China does*".



> we should take up the challenge to try and better beijing.


Because...



> does not impress much?. they made the fastest train from the airport to the stadiums. they cleaned up their city. they taught their people how to welcome and talk to foreigners. they made so many arrangements, on time and of good quality. c'mon man the whole world is appreciating them for their olympics show..


And the human cost of those glittery achievements is...and I am sure the whole world is bigger than your living room.


----------



## nix (Aug 11, 2008)

^ that post was not clear. i got only the 3rd point...

look there will always be some people who wil be unhappy with what you have done. you cannot please everybody. i have mentioned it before and will do so now also. you cannot grow without have place to grow. there are some tough decisions you have to take. and i know some people's lands have been taken without their wish and i condemn it. a good govt will compensate them well...


----------



## afonofa (Aug 14, 2008)

After reading through all that, makes me feel that

China vs India = Superman vs Doomsday (respectively)

I think everyone would want India = Superman but when you think about it, the grind that India is being put through by our politicians, India can only be Doomsday. That means the awesome power(India) that finally emerges will be unstoppable 

(for the uninitiated, Doomsday is the creature that killed Superman!)


----------



## veiga2412 (Aug 14, 2008)

hey!.. as if!

China would be superman if it saved the country, and the day, without making any compromise in humanitarian terms - and i think it is safe to safe, that this is not always the case.

And India...

While politicians are not really helping the situation, i doubt, very much, that they wield so much power as to be able to decide if a major part of our country will be left to die - they won't even think to put that kind of infrastructure into place, they'll just grab their cash and take jets & go bunk off on their private islands or whatever... 

So each has their own flaws...


----------



## cooldudie3 (Aug 14, 2008)

karnivore said:


> So the best way to judge a book is by its cover...
> 
> Oh BTW, Honk Kong comes with a "Made By Bits" label, in case you haven't noticed.


Hong Kong
Made by bits, never heard of it, even though I speak their languge and live here.


----------



## hellknight (Aug 14, 2008)

FIrst of all lets take a look at these points :-

1. The first thing that matters to humans is freedom.. talking about freedom in China is like talking about water in desert

2. In a one party system, their is always development regardless of public view.

3. Laptops and desktops are banned in the first year of Chinese universities, India main its not like that

4. 90% of Internet is not accessible in China.. Indians can access anything they want.

5. Regarding Hong Kong, it was _*not*_ developed by China, it was developed by Britain, it will remain under One Country, two systems policy until 2047.

6. When the students were killed in Tiananmen square in 1989, the govt. took the money of bullets from the parents of the dead. India main its not like this.

7. Regarding Kashmir and Tibet view, we *did not invaded* Kashmir, the Maharaja of Kashmir *acceded to India*, but *China invaded Tibet*, so you *can't compare* Kashmir to Tibet.

8. China is trying to bring people from other provinces to live in Tibet to kil Tibetan culture, but  India still has Article 370 in Kashmir. Another point not to compare Kashmir and Tibet.


----------



## cooldudie3 (Aug 14, 2008)

I know HK was not developed by China. You know, back in the old days when the Britains arrived, they had to *Teach* people about hygiene. Which is why HK is so clean today.

The internet is not as bad as 90% but maybe 70% unaccessible. Unbelievable!
I agree that freedom is not a thing in China. Not everything is allowed.


----------



## afonofa (Aug 14, 2008)

SuperChina is a sleek, powerful, picture perfect being, cared for and nurtured by parents who hide their child to protect it from the world till its time for it to embrace its destiny. This being is steadily gaining new and more powerful political & military abilities under the economic sun. However whether it finally uses its awesome powers for good or evil remains to be seen.

SuperChina though appears perfect on the outside has, with all possibility, an almost critical flaw on the inside, i.e., it is believed to become completely vulnerable and lose all its abilities when exposed to [human rights] or what is commonly known as Rightanite! This 'little piece of home' is ingrained into the dna of SuperChina and will always be a part of its legacy. Exposure to Rightanite and its [different variants]* has been known to cause very unpredictable actions by SuperChina.

DoomIndia is a being that had started out with the same potential as SuperChina but, was & is continued to be, subjected to horrific deaths by petty creatures who dream of creating an ultimate being without realising that with every death they are stripping away the very essence of this thriving living being and giving birth to a monster which may well be out of their control.

DoomIndia has been subjected to unimaginable horrors right from the time of its birth to the present day. It would be noteworthy to remember that right after its birth, DoomIndia was thrown out into the wild to [terrifying creatures]* which ripped DoomIndia into pieces, thereby creating a horrific memory which runs deep inside its core and continues to plague it till date. 

DoomIndia for all its current flaws, is inherently an incredibly resilient superbeing in the making. This is evident from the fact that no matter how many deaths, the petty creatures in charge subject it too, DoomIndia has always adapted, assimilated, evolved and immunized itself to those horrors. This being can only be killed in one way one time, after which it becomes immune to that which killed it. More horrific the death, longer the time required by DoomIndia to come back to life. This was noticed during its repeated deaths at the hands of the evil creature known as [Communal Riots]. For those who question this superbeing's ability to immunize itself to its previous form of death, they would do well to remember that the part known as Bombay, which was completely torn to shreds by [Communal Riots] has been regenerated, into Mumbai which remained immune to attacks by the scavenger known commonly as [Politikcians]* which almost always is the harbinger of an attack by [Communal Riots]. Also to be noted is that subsequent attacks by [Communal Riots] have been on different parts of DoomIndia, which were not immunized. 

Slowly but surely the entire being, DoomIndia, is being immunized against deaths by far [deadly creatures]* and is gaining, albeit slowly, political, military and perhaps most importantly cultural powers and abilities which may allow it to project its power more efficiently than SuperChina. This coupled with DoomIndia's plausible evolution into a being of pure Rightanite may well tilt the balance in its favour.

It is not hard to see that currently it is SuperChina which has an edge over DoomIndia, but as and when DoomIndia evolves, it will be a unstoppable power far greater than SuperChina.

These two future superbeings are no doubt destined to battle each other. This humble narrator dreads to even imagine what that day holds in store for the Earthiverse. However that much feared day may never come to pass if the self proclaimed guardian of the Earthiverse, [United Spectreates of America]* has its way.

[different variants] - most commonly known forms are Tibetanite and Tiananmenite
[terrifying creatures] - THE PARTITION!
[Politikcians] - parasitic scum of the Earthiverse, inhabiting every being, super or otherwise
[deadly creatures] - poverty, illiteracy, corruption, pollution, terrorism etc. well documented by the inhabitants of the planet *TigiDknihT*.
[United Spectreates of America] - pronounced as Specter-ate-s


----------



## nix (Aug 14, 2008)

@quote afonofa: lowly but surely the entire being, DoomIndia, is being immunized against deaths by far [deadly creatures]* and is gaining, albeit slowly, political, military and perhaps most importantly cultural powers and abilities which may allow it to project its power more efficiently than SuperChina.:endquote:

that may never happen. when we cant respond to bangladesh when it does not return our dead soldiers with respect, then how can we overtake china?. how can overtake china when we keep giving in to agression? all for the sake of votes...
the only thing indian politicians are good at is making money. how can we overtake china when we cant control the influx of terrorists from bangladesh and pakistan? india has a lot of work to do... its probably too late. didnt you see the way russia retaliated when georgia dared to mess with them?? they will never even think of doing it again... 
 we need a revolution. all these politicians should be punished. and we must have a govt that is not in the business of appeasing. 
today musharraf said "kashmir is in the blood of pakistan, what is happening in kashmir is abuse of human rights." india should have protested and stressed about the brutal treatment meted out to hindu's and christians in pakistan. india said nothing. 
no country other than india takes tolerates so much.


----------



## mehra.rakesh (Sep 4, 2008)

> so whose fault is that india didnt liberalized their economy? is it chinas fault? you will say its the fault of the politicians, but arent the politicians citizens of india? and if they were doing wrong, where were other indians? this is supposed to be a democracy isnt it?


  --- Good news for you buddy India isn't truly free . You can do your part and not wonder what other indians are doing .




> again. my first point.. it that chinas fault? or any other countries fault? and dont you dare put  "sound education" and india in one line. do you know about chinas education system? i think its the main reason its ahead.


 --- Yes i know abt chinas system . A cure for headache in China  ::: 1 piece of tiger testicle ( or was it goat) . 1 snake skull . Grind together with bats blood ..
Ok maybe not that bad , but its not better than India .





> doesnt china face internal aggression and external aggression and face tough competition? ever heard about tibet?


 --- 1. Tibetan monks attack by meditating or by holding silent protests wat a gr8 threat .  2. Internal agression can be squashed in China . Try doing that in India by throwing away the Hindus or Muslims protesting in J&K . India is still apole





> i have no connection to the chinese. i am stating the facts.


--- Facts Taken from Peoples daily of China..


This debate has been held before and was inconclusive. Thats why they coined the term CHINDIA or should it INDINA.


----------



## Aberforth (Oct 11, 2008)

cooldudie3 said:


> Anyway, China is becoming a financial point in this world. Jobs are very easy to find there.


I agree with this part. A friend of mine in Kunming commands as much salary as a primary school teacher as my professors at IIT did. Although China may be 'cheap' by West European standards, it is still in a far better state than India. Sad, but true.



laptops4u said:


> in china do they realy care indians ? or they dont like us ?


My personal experience is, the Chinese people in general don't harbour as much ill will against Indians, as say, Americans or Pakistanis do. I guess that has something to do with the lack of anti-India propaganda or KKK-style nationalism in Chinese media.



threeonethree said:


> overtaken china? . i dont want to be seen as rude but can you justify that to me?....


I'm sorry to point out, but putting two pictures of selected locations are no parameters to judge which country does better. The best comparison of Beijing skyline would be Delhi's Connaught Place while the Jama Masjid would be aptly compared with the Forbidden City.



~Rahul~ said:


> 7. Ya and Indian chicks look much better than Chinese girls  ,


Personal taste. A majority of Indian girls have an extremely conservative mindset and a high tendency to put on weight as soon as the unsuspecting male gets a ring around their fingers. Chinese girls are better able to maintain their figures past their 20s although they age less gracefully than Indians. 



~Rahul~ said:


> 4. If you were in China your home would've been razed for a 4 lane highway and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it,


If we try the same tack on India, it doesn't look very good either. If you are the unfortunate homeless in India, you'd be over-run by an SUV driven by a drunk spoilt brat or a powerful celebrity. Since it is a democracy, the voice of the homeless victims are rarely ever heard.



~Rahul~ said:


> China's GDP is mainly composed of Manufacturing, and China doesn't have home-grown companies like India, MOST of the companies in China are Foreign ones,  they can easily stop manufacturing in China and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it,


Manufacturing assets are hard assets while service sector is composed of fluid assets. Companies who invest in India can't simply "stop manufacturing" without the inconvienience of losing their plant in worst case, or being extremely inconvenienced at the best case.



~Rahul~ said:


> Well go to Youtube and see you'll come across loads of videos of Chinese calling Indians paki etc. and referring to us as "stinky Indians", "ugly black Indians", well maybe you're extremely thick-skinned but I cant tolerate such insult  , you chump.


Perhaps you deserve it if you look into Youtube and gobble such racist videos to fuel your hatred of Chinese. Racist people exist in every country, India and China are no exceptions.



~Rahul~ said:


> And most Ethnic Tibetians are exploited and treated like vermin by the PRC.


Pretty much the same way the Hindi belt Indians treat Northeasterns. 



~Rahul~ said:


> Do you know China is torturing ethnic Tibetians and marginalizing them? There are graphic vids on Youtube.


I think most of us know all this. But it would be hippocritic to point fingers at China, when North-Eastern Indians are getting abducted, raped and shot by our own soldiers, using the AFSPA act. Both are atrocities on a marginalised sections of people, to be despised and condemned.



karnivore said:


> Great show...but still China does not impress much. And I am glad that this country does not go to the extent that China does to make those glittery cities


I agree. It is always a great pleasure to live in slums or have badly contructed cielings fall on my head when I'm taking my afternoon siesta.

Bottomline is, if we want to proclaim moral or ethical superiority over the Chinese, it would be a poor call to use red herrings. There are cultural positives in both India and China, as well as negatives. Unfortunately, Indians tend to pick the up worst of western culture and at the same time, zealously retain the worst on Indian culture. The Chinese, on the other hand, tend to clip off their worst traits and enhance their best, which pushed them ahead of us despite our post-colonial advantages. Maybe there is a lesson to be learnt here.


----------



## amol48 (Oct 15, 2008)

Aberforth said:


> I agree with this part. A friend of mine in Kunming commands as much salary as a primary school teacher as my professors at IIT did. Although China may be 'cheap' by West European standards, it is still in a far better state than India. Sad, but true.
> 
> 
> My personal experience is, the Chinese people in general don't harbour as much ill will against Indians, as say, Americans or Pakistanis do. I guess that has something to do with the lack of anti-India propaganda or KKK-style nationalism in Chinese media.
> ...



This is perhaps the most meaningful and * unbiased* post in this whole thread IMO. Can't agree more with you!!


----------



## witnesstheday (Jul 1, 2009)

Looks like I started a hot topic, eh?

Well for those who point at china's inhumanity - 80% of indians are "lower caste" and live like actual dogs and pigs.

India's rich and powerful don't give a rat's behind for their people.

In the name of Gandhi there will be blood on the streets in a big way, in our lives.

100 to 200 million indian youths will die during a period of uprising.

india is the most racist country in the world after Israel

there's a lot of reasons why india is well suited to be china's partner! they are both as heinous as each other.


----------



## amitash (Jul 1, 2009)

Both sides have plenty of negatives in their policies...But i have to say, china is the better country as when you look at it in the whole, they are far more advanced...India is stuck somewhere in the middle of culture and modern development whereas the chinese are just more united as a nation.



> Bottomline is, if we want to proclaim moral or ethical superiority over the Chinese, it would be a poor call to use red herrings. There are cultural positives in both India and China, as well as negatives. Unfortunately, Indians tend to pick the up worst of western culture and at the same time, zealously retain the worst on Indian culture. The Chinese, on the other hand, tend to clip off their worst traits and enhance their best, which pushed them ahead of us despite our post-colonial advantages. Maybe there is a lesson to be learnt here.



Per fectly agreed on that one, just my point.


----------



## max_demon (Jul 2, 2009)

i personally feel japan pwns them both


----------



## abhijangda (Jul 3, 2009)

hmmmm.......... which is better china is far better than india in economy but there are some points which i think has not been mention here and are in favour of India.
1. Indian Army is one of the best army in the world. Our Army's training is such good that even other countries are also using same training technique.

2. Indian Airforce is also one of the best known airforce in the world. We have Sukoi aircrafts which are the best aircrafts in the world.

3. India is the largest democracy in the world. Here we have all the rights which one must have. We can choose our leaders which we want. But in China there is dictatorship who knows when a Hitler type person becomes dictator.

4. India is a paece loving country which hasn't attack any other country for more than 200 yrs. But china see it has attacked us in 1962 just because we were giving shelter to tibetians.

5. China also follows their expanding policy they have taken control over Tibet.

6. Also India was the first country to recoginze China as an independent country. India helps China to get entry in UN. and helps China to become permanent member of Security Counccil.

So here are the ++++++ points of India. But China i dont thing have these plus pnts.


----------



## chesss (Jul 3, 2009)

> 2. Indian Airforce is also one of the best known airforce in the world. We have Sukoi aircrafts which are the best aircrafts in the world.


Not true atall. Currently nothing beats the F22 raptor. That aircraft is the ****. Heck its so good that its predicted to give USA air superiority for 40 years!!


----------



## Krow (Jul 3, 2009)

abhijangda said:


> hmmmm.......... which is better china is far better than india in economy but there are some points which i think has not been mention here and are in favour of India.
> 1. Indian Army is one of the best army in the world. Our Army's training is such good that even other countries are also using same training technique.
> 
> 2. Indian Airforce is also one of the best known airforce in the world. We have Sukoi aircrafts which are the best aircrafts in the world.
> ...



Agreed with point 5&6.

Point 4>>> U need to read more sir. Wiki is a good place to start. Chinese attack on India wasn't just because we sheltered Tibetans. Chinese wanted to build a highway through Aksai Chin region of Kashmir(which they hold even today). There are some other factors too. Maybe we didnt attack any country in the past 200 years, but that doesnt make us a peace loving country(remember the very controversial Godhra Riots/Babri Masjid Demolition/many such violent eruptions).

Point 3>>> Agreed partially. I dunno if Chinese Presidents are Hitler-type or not. Offtopic - But then again, even the Allied forces were no better than Hitler. Far as I know, they didn't have a problem with the holocaust, but with Hitler's expansionism. Hence, they responded only when Hitler attacked another nation and not when he started culling Jews.

Point 2>>> The IAF may be the best airforce in the world for its Pilots and not for its planes. Shame so many pilots are killed due to corrupt defence ministry officials. Remember Rang De Basanti? Our fleet has the minimum no. of Sukhois. Japan makes them. IAF would be the best only when all our crafts are fully manufactured in India.

Point 1>>> Indian Army is said to be the best because it is the largest *voluntary* army in the world. I don't know about its training methods and how they fare against the world, so I won't comment.


----------



## abhijangda (Jul 3, 2009)

frnd by point 4 i don't mean that there are not internal matters of India. But I want to say that India has always tried to solve the issues by peace and will be doing in the coming years. 
Also one more point to add is that 
7. We Indians are said to be world gurus we are the one who tells people about numerals. Astronomers like Aryabhatta told the world that Earth rotate around Sun (although it was accepted much latter after Galileo). Mathemeticians like Ramanujam devloped many theorems. 

8. Also we Indians also has a very good part in world economy (although not as a country). But we individuals go to foriegn countries and developed many new things and hence we have a good share.

9. Also Indians are said to be most intelligent persons in the world.


----------



## Disc_Junkie (Jul 4, 2009)

P0rn is completely banned in China. Even their governement threatened Google to ban their search engine and it's very strict. They have a zero-tolerance policy against it. But in India - even if p0rn is illegal, the Indian government is not taking enough steps to curb it completely.

So in this case India falls behind China.


----------



## abhijangda (Jul 5, 2009)

Disc_Junkie said:


> P0rn is completely banned in China. Even their governement threatened Google to ban their search engine and it's very strict. They have a zero-tolerance policy against it. But in India - even if p0rn is illegal, the Indian government is not taking enough steps to curb it completely.
> 
> So in this case India falls behind China.


Oh yes that's the reason why we should be carefull while opening the sites. Who knows what lies ahead. The actual reason of their development is that the chinese goverment i.e. dictatorship gov. is strict and hence they have less corruption than India hence they are ahead of us.


----------



## Aberforth (Jul 13, 2009)

abhijangda said:


> 1. Indian Army is one of the best army in the world. Our Army's training is such good that even other countries are also using same training technique.


Subjective. The fact that the Kargil war dragged on for so long and we lost so many of our jawans makes me ponder whether to believe this one...(much as I wish I could).



abhijangda said:


> Indian Airforce is also one of the best known airforce in the world. We have Sukoi aircrafts which are the best aircrafts in the world.


Sukhoi Su-30s are Russian aircrafts. The Indian versions have Israeli equipments in them. And I wouldn't call an Su the "best aircraft in the world". Formidable yes, best no.



abhijangda said:


> India is a paece loving country which hasn't attack any other country for more than 200 yrs.


Thats because we were too busy killing and fighting amongst ourselves. The Sikh riots, Nellis massacre, Gujarat pogrom, Christian massacres in Karnataka and Orissa, etc. etc. 



abhijangda said:


> Here we have all the rights which one must have. We can choose our leaders which we want. But in China there is dictatorship who knows when a Hitler type person becomes dictator.


All of which sounds good on paper but thats just that - a paper tiger. In reality, India is a country of vote rigging, votebank manipulation, communal riots, political massacres and police brutality. A truely functional anarchy.



abhijangda said:


> China also follows their expanding policy they have taken control over Tibet.


China has claims over Tibet the same way our governments lay claim over Northeastern India.



chesss said:


> Heck its so good that its predicted to give USA air superiority for 40 years!!


In the 1990s F-117 "stealth" was predicted to be 'invincible' for decades to come. The Kosovo war proved the predictors wrong. If the Serbs with their ancient radars and rockets could down the 'invincible' F-117, I would trust my life on an IAF pilot in a Sukhoi over an F-22 Raptor.



chesss said:


> Mathemeticians like Ramanujam devloped many theorems.


...in United Kingdom. What did this genius get in India? Forced early marriage, years in poverty and finally a tuberculosis that ultimately consumed him. If it were not for Thomas Hardy, Ramanujan would have died a nobody's death.



chesss said:


> Also Indians are said to be most intelligent persons in the world.


And yet we are among the worst in spotting talent. We are more impressed by degree certificates of an 'old world' Anglo-Saxon education than real intellect.


----------



## chesss (Jul 14, 2009)

The last 2 comments weren't by me btw 


> In the 1990s F-117 "stealth" was predicted to be 'invincible' for decades to come. The Kosovo war proved the predictors wrong. If the Serbs with their ancient radars and rockets could down the 'invincible' F-117, I would trust my life on an IAF pilot in a Sukhoi over an F-22 Raptor.


 dude in total in all its 2 decade life only 1 single f-117 was lost in combat! i wld that  is as good as invincible.
Edit: And look here for a f-22 vs 30MKI . Note how the sukhois lost to f-15 in an dogfight exercise.


----------



## nix (Jul 14, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> China has claims over Tibet the same way our governments lay claim over Northeastern India..



The British annexed those areas. I think it was a good move because I don't they would been able to defend themselves from china.


----------



## Aberforth (Jul 15, 2009)

chesss said:


> dude in total in all its 2 decade life only 1 single f-117 was lost in combat! i wld that  is as good as invincible.


Two F-117s actually, not one. All in a span of a week, against a single opponent, who by no means is a military might. 

If you consider that a proof of the F-117s 'invincibility' then I could say the same for IAF's Su-30 MKIs and Mirage-2000s. The Mirage-2000 has been operational for 2 decades and yet we didn't have a single combat loss. The same goes for Su-30s, for a decade long operational history. This inspite of the fact that the Mirage-2000 was used against Pakistan in 1999, a more formidable military opponent than Serbia was in 1996.



chesss said:


> ... for a f-22 vs 30MKI . Note how the sukhois lost to f-15 in an dogfight exercise.


It wasn't an exercise between Su-30 and F-15, rather an exercise between USAF and IAF. Give these F-15s or even the F-22s to PAF during an Indo-Pak war and the only way the Pakistanis can prevent them from falling like meteorites would be to keep them grounded.

In any case, the results of Cope India exercise doesn't prove the F-22's 'invincibility'. If I were to defend against the F-22, I'd put my money on the S-300s or 400s, backed by Phased Array Radars and a couple of AWACs. I'd get close to 100% results minus the exhorbitant costs of jet-A fuel and pilot training.



nix said:


> I think it was a good move because I don't they would been able to defend themselves from china.


Why would they need defending from China anyway?


----------



## Liverpool_fan (Jul 15, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> Subjective. The fact that the Kargil war dragged on for so long and we lost so many of our jawans makes me ponder whether to believe this one...(much as I wish I could).
> 
> 
> Sukhoi Su-30s are Russian aircrafts. The Indian versions have Israeli equipments in them. And I wouldn't call an Su the "best aircraft in the world". Formidable yes, best no.
> ...


Very Well Said.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Jul 15, 2009)

communism is destined to fail, something which looks perfect in theory, but fails invariably because apparantly humans are humans, and they cannot be herded like animals.

Not saying India is perfect or anything, it is far from being perfect but I would prefer living in Indian slums than beijing skyscrapers where there is no such thing as freedom.

Funny people talk so much ****, when we know how many people gave their lives for this 'freedom', guess it seems important when we don't have it.Now all take it for granted.bleh. 

And I guess everybody knows about how China helped pakistan attain nuclear power status, even when they know pakistan is a rogue state just to weaken India's position in the sub-continent.China and India aren't even direct competitors.Guess whos reaping what they sowed, the quighar riots, and now qaeda declaring to avenge for the muslims killed there.Mad men with nukes, yea, world gotta love that ****.

and thank to all the politicians who people bash so much, for going ahead with the nuclear testings back in the day without caring for the bans and threats by western world.I wouldn't even think of India without nukes at this stage.


oh and BTW, I have nothing against chinese people, they are just like us.I play a lot on their online game servers,.


----------



## nix (Jul 15, 2009)

@aberforth: China at one time had an aggressive expansionist policy and they would have probably occupied North East states if they had not been a part of india. probably. just like they did to tibet. 

@the_devil_himself: I think the chinese people have got used to the communist government. I think many of them accept it. China is better equipped to deal with terrorism than any other democracy. 

They don't deal softly with terrorists. 
they can do what they want and dare the world to mess with them. Al qaida is harming USA because they fight with one arm tied to their back. They dont have waterboarding debates in china. 

whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Jul 15, 2009)

nix said:


> @the_devil_himself: I think the chinese people have got used to the communist government. I think many of them accept it. China is better equipped to deal with terrorism than any other democracy.


Nobody, atleast not humans, can get used to communism,it is the very nature of human beings, and this is what separates from us from  gazillion other species inhabiting this earth, right?Eventually the bubble is gonna burst, and lemme tell you, it will be very ugly not only for china but for the whole world and especially us.



> whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.


exactly what you said, stopping more powerful foes to go on a full-fledged offensive.This is the protection these nukes give.India could have demolished pakistan but not without get a bloody nose herself, exactly whats preventing china(or any other country for example) from attacking India(talking in theoretical terms here, I can't think of one reason of a war between the two nations tbh), only that India is well endowed in nukes and it won't be just a bloody nose.It also puts fear in the minds of rogue states to not push the limits too far.Nukes are a boon to a peaceful antion, contrary to what was thought about them initially.So the final question which comes is is the offensive worth the damages that will ultimately done?And the answer is invariably NO.

we are living in a dangerous world, my friend.I suggest reading about MAD(mutual assured destruction) on wiki or something.


----------



## Aberforth (Jul 15, 2009)

nix said:


> @aberforth: China at one time had an aggressive expansionist policy and they would have probably occupied North East states if they had not been a part of india. probably. just like they did to tibet.


Looks like you didn't get my point. What difference would it have made if the Northeast was a part of China rather than India? A little better perhaps, economically and politically. The situation in Tibet even now is a lot better than it is in AFSPA North-Eastern India.



nix said:


> whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.


..because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation. Wimping out to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh is a lot cheaper than using political and military muscle to keep their aggression in check.



nix said:


> Eventually the bubble is gonna burst, and lemme tell you, it will be very ugly not only for china but for the whole world and especially us.


We have been hearing that for over 50 years and the said 'bubble burst' never came. In fact, many pro-democratic agencies predicted a slowdown in China's economic growth by 2008 against India. But it went the other way.


----------



## dips_view (Jul 16, 2009)

> originally posted by aberforth....
> .because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation. Wimping out to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh is a lot cheaper than using political and military muscle to keep their aggression in check.


for ur information ..  once upon a time (pseudo) democratic country(u.s) used nuclear weapon to against another (pseudo) democratic country (japan) not once but twice.
US also threatened to use it again during 1) Korean war 2)Cuba 3)Vietnam 4)Soviet Union 5)Albania and a long  list...




> originally posted by devil himself.......
> And I guess everybody knows about how China helped pakistan attain nuclear power status, even when they know pakistan is a rogue state just to weaken India's position in the sub-continent.China and India aren't even direct competitors.Guess whos reaping what they sowed, the quighar riots, and now qaeda declaring to avenge for the muslims killed there.Mad men with nukes, yea, world gotta love that ****.


do you hear about  Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan??    Dr. Khan is a German-trained metallurgist.who brought with him knowledge of gas centrifuge technologies that he had acquired through his position at the classified URENCO uranium enrichment plant in the Netherlands. Dr. Khan also reportedly brought with him stolen uranium enrichment technologies from Europe. He was put in charge of building, equipping and operating Pakistan's Kahuta facility, which was established in 1976. Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.
u dont need to believe me..please search Wikipedia and any authentic site of your choice....may be CNN or CIA...
link: *www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/04/pakistan.nuclear.timeline.reut/



> originally posted by devil himself.......
> communism is destined to fail, something which looks perfect in theory, but fails invariably because apparantly humans are humans, and they cannot be herded like animals.


and last .... communism does not believe in destiny.. it believes in people.. it believes in peoples democracy..
LIBERTY,EQUALITY,FRATERNITY FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE is the motto of communism. 
*
*


----------



## nix (Jul 16, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> Looks like you didn't get my point. What difference would it have made if the Northeast was a part of China rather than India? A little better perhaps, economically and politically. The situation in Tibet even now is a lot better than it is in AFSPA North-Eastern India.



I think it would have been bad for their culture. It is said that han chinese immigration is encouraged by chinese govt in minority areas. it seems that the han chinese population has increased from <10% around 50 years ago in xinjiang to around 40 % now. dalai lama has also accused of tibetan culture being under threat due to han immigration
*www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/05/12/2003443331



Aberforth said:


> ..because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation.



exactly


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Jul 16, 2009)

noob post tbh but whatever.



dips_view said:


> for ur information ..  once upon a time (pseudo) democratic country(u.s) used nuclear weapon to against another (pseudo) democratic country (japan) not once but twice.
> US also threatened to use it again during 1) Korean war 2)Cuba 3)Vietnam 4)Soviet Union 5)Albania and a long  list...


when US used the weapon, it was the sole country in the world to have it ffs, and it was primarily to claim world dominance, otherwise japan was already lost.read some history and use some logic perhaps?






> do you hear about  Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan??    Dr. Khan is a German-trained metallurgist.who brought with him knowledge of gas centrifuge technologies that he had acquired through his position at the classified URENCO uranium enrichment plant in the Netherlands. Dr. Khan also reportedly brought with him stolen uranium enrichment technologies from Europe. He was put in charge of building, equipping and operating Pakistan's Kahuta facility, which was established in 1976. Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.
> u dont need to believe me..please search Wikipedia and any authentic site of your choice...





> may be CNN or CIA...
> link: *www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/04/pakistan.nuclear.timeline.reut/


you read wiki please *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Foreign_assistance  go read pls, china was the country which tested nukes on behalf of pakistan in 1980s.



> and last .... communism does not believe in destiny.. it believes in people.. it believes in peoples democracy..
> LIBERTY,EQUALITY,FRATERNITY FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE is the motto of communism.


you need to read more.

Anyone supporting communism over democracy is too naive to argue with anyways.
Like I said, people take too much for granted, way too much.


----------



## Aberforth (Jul 17, 2009)

dips_view said:


> Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.


I don't think you'd be able to get your point across, especially since we Indians are a nation of easily gullible people. The majority of Indians are still quite willing to suck up to the US and gobble up media myths against China. Few, if any, are willing to read back up on history to verify anything. How many Indians know about US help to Pakistan for the last 60 years (and continuing)? How many Indians know that the ONLY country that backed India on its integration of Kashmir was USSR? How many Indians know that the US shipped an armed nuclear warship to the Bay of Bengal during the Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971? 



dips_view said:


> It is said that han chinese immigration is encouraged by chinese govt in minority areas.


How different is it from present day North East? Most of the government jobs, businesses and practically every economic activity is in the hands of immigrant North Indians. The locals are left with no option but menial jobs, politics, extortion or militancy. Why look at Xian when it is a lot worse in Manipur, Assam, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh or Mizoram?



dips_view said:


> Anyone supporting communism over democracy is too naive to argue with anyways.


Rather, I think anyone who has a balanced view of political systems is a thinker. Like Albert Einstein for example, who understood communism objectively. You'd have to be either a genius or a fool to call him naive. 

There are some situations where communism scores over democracy and some where democracy scores over communism. Democracy suits wealthy nations, where people have full stomachs and actually care about having their opinions heard. They already have their basic subsistence and a stable life, which puts them in a better position to decide their governance.

In a poor country like India, 'free speech' and 'democracy' are the easiest and cheapest things that a government can provide. It costs less to the government than providing tangible public benefits like better infrastructure or living standards. Just give democracy and the responsibility for a better governance gets shifted to the people (who often are too busy struggling for livelihood to take an active part in government). Give democracy and its ideals to the people, and they'll believe that they have it better than other countries, even if the reality is otherwise. 

The Chinese administration hands death sentence to those who taint and adulterate food products while Indian adulterers not only walk free, but continue this act with impunity after a few hands have been adequately greased. After all, poisoned adulterated food in a democratic country is better than quality controlled food in a communist country.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Jul 17, 2009)

^^quote the names correctly ffs.

and like I said its better to be a free cow in the open, which might mean she may not get enough food\water sometimes than to be put in chains, fed with good quality food, kept in air conditioned shelters with enough water for they can me milked by captors.I hope you get my point.

Multiparty democratic system with all its drawbacks is the best, and this is supported by humans long history of experimenting with politics.Communism may seem perfect in theory, but it is destined to fail eventually.


and India is NOT a poor country, we are almost self sufficient.There are enough jobs, people who want to work has work to do.

enough of this BS, neither US nor china is a friendly country, each one is pursuing its own agendas, but China is a far more dangerous country, its like a bomb which is going to explode.


----------



## Aberforth (Jul 17, 2009)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> ^^quote the names correctly ffs.[/quotes]
> My apologies, I'll try to.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## abhijangda (Aug 13, 2009)

hmmmm...... so a long discussion here. Every thing has its advantages and disadvantages. Democracy is not for poor or rich people. It is for the country which is intelligent. In which people and think what they want to do and what not. But communism for that in which people are not so intelligent. India is not a poor country but it is a self sufficient country.
Just the problem is of democracy. In this country nearly 26% of people are poor. We requires immediate reforms and help from govt. But in democracy the procedures and norms to pass a bill has to be followed that's not  the case with communism or dictatorship. 
But here we are having one advantage of being free to move,live, express our views, we have rights but it's not in China. There people are revolting against Govt. what i think that there must democracy with communism and that too with a good leader like Pandit Nehru or our PM Manmohan Singh. This will be better for our country at this time.

Also it will be better not to fight against each other instead think of the stps we must take to tackle all these disputes.


----------



## Apple Juice (Aug 15, 2009)

chinese is the noobs!!!


----------



## Liverpool_fan (Aug 15, 2009)

abhijangda said:


> India is not a poor country but it is a *self sufficient* country.



Self Sufficient? India? Surely not. Maybe for agriculture, but not self sufficient for generating jobs for the educated for sure.


----------



## dips_view (Aug 15, 2009)

ya.. "Chinese are noobs"... and they drink apple juice


----------



## Faun (Aug 15, 2009)

^^More like *zergs*.


----------



## Krow (Aug 15, 2009)

*Apple Juice* is funny!


----------



## chooza (Aug 16, 2009)

Liverpool_fan said:


> Self Sufficient? India? Surely not. Maybe for agriculture, but not self sufficient for generating jobs for the educated for sure.


 When every one want a "DECENT"job and no one is planning to enter business, from where in hell, the govt. will brig out the jobs? and remains are damped by so called reservation system.


----------



## Liverpool_fan (Aug 16, 2009)

chooza said:


> When every one want a "DECENT"job and no one is planning to enter business, from where in hell, the govt. will brig out the jobs? and remains are damped by so called reservation system.



As if Government has made it easy to start your own business. Red Tapism? Anyone?


----------



## Faun (Aug 16, 2009)

^^Just pack up whenever you get an opportunity to enjoy great han culture for entire life. I am pretty sure that you will admire smooth wide roads and tall shiny infrastructure in China. Chicoms will appreciate another zerg addition and India will be happy too.


----------



## Techn0crat (Aug 16, 2009)

If we were in china,this discussion wouldn't have even started.


----------



## dips_view (Aug 16, 2009)

yes we think and they do that's the difference.


----------



## fieldgunner (Aug 18, 2009)

Just like Pak's India fixation is holding them back from achieving anything, we should be careful not to develop a China fixation that prevents us from setting our own house in order...


----------



## Faun (Aug 19, 2009)

@dips_view
Yeah they did it and they are doing it today also. More than ~50 million perished in China along with their culture (due to cultural revolution).


----------



## dips_view (Aug 20, 2009)

please search how many perished in our country after 60 years though we have a democratic government.


----------



## vaithy (Aug 21, 2009)

@dips_view
In democratic Government every citizen share the burden of it success and failure including you and I.. But in the Authoritarian govt in Beijing only the the Selected Party officias had to accept the outcome of the decision they take.. rest are not relevant..


----------



## dips_view (Aug 21, 2009)

> "In democratic Government every citizen share the burden of it success and failure including you and I.. But in the Authoritarian govt in Beijing only the the Selected Party officias had to accept the outcome of the decision they take.. rest are not relevant.."


originally posted by vaithy

i agree with ur view on democracy. but how can u find da true democracy. democracy means FOR THE PEOPLE,BY THE PEOPLE, OF THE PEOPLE.and thats the motto of communism.yes everyone is equal in communist states. at least on theory.
In ur views china ruled by selected one. what about the us the democratic heaven.In there Democratically Elected Autocrats are responsible 4 killing millions?
 do you want say majority in US wants war/or there views don't reflected in democratic environment.


----------



## chooza (Aug 23, 2009)

dips_view said:


> for ur information ..  once upon a time (pseudo) democratic country(u.s) used nuclear weapon to against another (pseudo) democratic country (japan) not once but twice.
> US also threatened to use it again during 1) Korean war 2)Cuba 3)Vietnam 4)Soviet Union 5)Albania and a long  list...
> 
> 
> ...



When you talk about America's attack on Japan two times, it was only after Japan's attack on America in Pearl harbour, and also, at the end of WW II when all other countries which include Germany had surrendered, Japan not was not only reculant to stop war but increase attacks on US of A, So at that time, it was very important to stop Japan by any mean.

And when you say that communism believes in people, is that by killing old age people of country of forcing people to have number of child what govt want? and where is by the people? Their are only countries in world which believe in of the people, by the people, for the people. and these are India and US of A. Communism is any time worse then any system in world.


----------



## dips_view (Aug 23, 2009)

dear chooza u r advocating for  nuclear war.what can i say!!!but i still request please Google last days of second world war..
and communists kill old age peoples... please give me the source.anyway I can request to you please read the history of COMMUNISM.


----------



## nix (Aug 23, 2009)

Both communism and democracy have their pros and cons. I've lived in India long enough to recognise the loopholes in the democratic setup. Communist china on the other hand, looks systematic and their politicians really do care about their country. their system looks better, from here atleast.


----------



## arvindravindranath (Sep 2, 2009)

india will come on top eventually.....for three reasons
1.human rights
2.democracy
3.we don't have one child policy but a naturally decreasing fertility rate we'll still have enough labour for the next 50 years while the chinese are already greying
.......................but 4 now


99% of all products reviewed i in digit are "MADE IN CHINA"



I REST MY CASE.....................................................


----------



## nix (Sep 2, 2009)

^plz don't cite their decreasing population as advantageous to us. its usless to have a large, uneducated and unemployed population. how do you think the western countries got ahead of india despite their relatively low populations? now don't say its because of immigration, they were far ahead even before that.  high populations are bad for the working class, as wages get even lower. natural resources like food, water and air are becoming scarce, and hence getting expensive. farmlands are being acquired in the name of devlopment and industrialization. less farmland->less food->expensive food->blame->ourself, not USA. +farmers live in shockingly bad conditions causing them to commit suicide. 

resources are limited, growth rate in india is unsustainable. the situation is quite bleak right now, there are too many doctors, engineers, MBA's.

our population is not decreasing, its expected to surpass china's population soon. china is almost three times bigger than india.


----------



## lalsingh (Sep 14, 2009)

china ki to aisi ki taisi. chinese ko dekhte hi goli mar do.


----------



## arvindravindranath (Sep 23, 2009)

nix said:


> ^plz don't cite their decreasing population as advantageous to us. its usless to have a large, uneducated and unemployed population. how do you think the western countries got ahead of india despite their relatively low populations? now don't say its because of immigration, they were far ahead even before that.  high populations are bad for the working class, as wages get even lower. natural resources like food, water and air are becoming scarce, and hence getting expensive. farmlands are being acquired in the name of devlopment and industrialization. less farmland->less food->expensive food->blame->ourself, not USA. +farmers live in shockingly bad conditions causing them to commit suicide.
> 
> resources are limited, growth rate in india is unsustainable. the situation is quite bleak right now, there are too many doctors, engineers, MBA's.
> 
> our population is not decreasing, its expected to surpass china's population soon. china is almost three times bigger than india.





nix..........

yes i agree a large uneducated population doesn't mean much and will only be a burden in the years to come......
but just to reiterate my point the japanese,germans,singaporeans, most europenan countries,Russia even are suffering from one of the worst fertility rates crises in their history the japanese population is to fall from 120 million now o 80 million in 2050 and the german population is to fall from 80million now to 67 million in 2050...the russians lose 8 lac people every year.......but none of them are getting any richer....in fact their growth was stagnant even before the recession with the japanese economy suffering through a deflationary period and continuous negative growth throughout the 90's and early 00's the russians grew only because of their oil

the chinese just like us unfortunately consider a girl child a burden and thanks to their one child policy stop after having a son or go to lengths such as abortion or foeticide to rid themselves of girls as a result the sex ratio has fallen below even our country for new borns

the chinese still have a very high gini index(a mesurement of income equality,the lower the better) of 46.9 but we have only 36.8 none of the ecenomic "growth" is trickling to the poor people and they work in factories which are almost like slave labour camps  this is only because of the iron grip of the communist govt if this grip loosens even a bit there is bound to be social unrest

and please don't give me that crap that we have too many doctors or too many mbas 
i;m sorry if your job is lost because of the recession but that is just not true
hospitals in the rural areas still are empty because of lack of doctors mbas still get top dollar in the job market and none of our engineers actually end up being engineers in the job market


shocking facts: the whole country has juat 700 nephrologists and 3500 psychiatrists
in the WHOLE COUNTRY! google it if you don't believe me


indians can beat chinese in numerous fields be it english,innovation  entrepreneurship and our inherentability for "jugaad" bringing up a private company in china is one of the most difficult things to do and the chinese are notorious for intellectual property thefts which is why global automobile majors are now investing here instead of there india just recently just pipped china in auto exports


the point i'm trying to make is that india does still has its share of problems thats why is said "eventually" .investment over time will help raise wages and it will improve living conditions of the poor. new irrigation projects will help improve farm productivity but everything will take time


----------



## nix (Sep 27, 2009)

^ its not all about the money. think about resources, niether do we recycle, nor do we conserve. think about all the farmland that is being bought over for residential or commerical pourposes. the population is increasing, food and other resources are decreasing. worst hit by india's industrialization are farmers. they are given a pittance for their land by industrialists who make hundreds of crores. 

why do they need so much land? do they use all of? yes, but mostly for lawns and fountains. 

the newspapers tell you why a growing population is good, but they dont tell why it can be bad. 

in western countries, the quality of life is better, for everybody. even a construction worker or a taxi driver can live a comfortable life, thats why many indians become taxi drivers there. the same cannot be said of india. that is where population can make a difference. 

when you point out that countries like japan have had stagnant growth rate, you dont take in account, the fact that japan grew long before we did. so now, they already have all the factories and stuff that we are getting just now. most of their population is empolyed, unlike here. again, you have to consider the quality of life. 

you say nobody wants to go and work in villages, well that coz our govt cannot provide necessary facilities in rural areas. no electricity, no roads etc... that is where we get our food from, but yet, they are the most neglected. 

you say india has had a good growth rate, if india was all that good, why do we still see thousands of our youth going away to USA, UK etc..? because the quality of life is better. why is that? because of demand for engineers. why is that? because of low population and good living conditions. young people there do not want to learn something difficult like math coz they dont have to. they can become sales executives and still live a comfortable life. 

but we dont have a choice. we do what people say is "paying". but they, they do what they want to do. thats precisely the reason why, they have a few engineers who are way smarter than most our engineers.

 they do something coz they want to do it. we do it coz we need to do it.


----------



## p_dude (Sep 27, 2009)

nix said:


> ^ its not all about the money. think about resources, niether do we recycle, nor do we conserve. think about all the farmland that is being bought over for residential or commerical pourposes. the population is increasing, food and other resources are decreasing. worst hit by india's industrialization are farmers. they are given a pittance for their land by industrialists who make hundreds of crores.
> 
> why do they need so much land? do they use all of? yes, but mostly for lawns and fountains.
> 
> ...


i may not agree totally on some of your previous posts nix
but what you have said now is very true


----------



## arvindravindranath (Sep 29, 2009)

nix said:


> ^ its not all about the money. think about resources, niether do we recycle, nor do we conserve. think about all the farmland that is being bought over for residential or commerical pourposes. the population is increasing, food and other resources are decreasing. worst hit by india's industrialization are farmers. they are given a pittance for their land by industrialists who make hundreds of crores.
> 
> why do they need so much land? do they use all of? yes, but mostly for lawns and fountains.
> 
> ...





nix.....you seem to be pretty concerned about farmland and food shortages i can see......now for a few facts....55% of india's land is arable and we have the second largest cultivable area after the US but we still suffer from food shortages including the infamous sugar shortage now but this is not because of  overpopulation but instead it is because of poor farm productivity

japan has a population density of 330/sq ft india  has a population density of 303/sq ft with most of the japanese land going to industry and cities and the rest to mountains they are still self sufficient in rice and even have a small surplus every year which is exported to africa at a discount they are also self sufficient in onions cabbages and a few other vegetables despite the very negligible land available for agriculture

why?

this is because unlike our country where there is rampant fertilizer shortage and skewed fertilizer policy the japanese intensively cultivate their land making maximum use of it they use both macro and micro nutrient fertilizers unlike the only macro nutrient fertilizers give by our government this results in productivity of over 1200 tonnes/hectare while our productivity is around 150-200 tonnes per hectare and 300-350 in punjab the main culprit is unavailability of fertilizers and irrigation only25% of our land is irrigated and even then we are almost self sufficient in food grains 40% of our food production goes to waste because of inadequate storage facilities  .with proper irrigation and fertilizer application on even 50% of the cultivated land we'll have plenty for export.

the western countries got rich in the first place only because of one reason namely "COLONIALISM"
they had made many scientific advances and thus the industrial revolution began in europe this according to me was the turning point in the world's history 
europeans with their new factory built guns and cannons invaded asia africa and the americas and looted us of our wealth....india was among the richest countries in the world those days the europeans looted our wealth,took it home ,and made themselves rich and when an economy starts with a high base it doesn't come down so easily

however japan and china's example here is interesting japan after the second world war benefited from a clause in its constitution which forbade it to declare war on other countries and under american occupation they weren't able to invest much in their military so all money went to investment in industry japanese engineers in the US who were discriminated against returned home and there was a determined effort to reclaim japan's honour which had been lost during the war the founders of nintendo,sony and toyota all studied in the us at some point of their lives pssatoru iwata who steered nintendo from toys to video games was the one who studies in the US he "founded" the nintendo we know today)


china on the other hand began its industrial liberalization only in 1972 after which under deng xiaoping the government made use of china's biggest asset its vast labour force and factories started opening along with construction of roads,bridges,ports etc
india started this process only 19 years on.....but the same is happening here,that too without a determined effort by the government but one by entrepreneurs just imagine what would happen if both worked in tandem!

i once again reiterate my point about skilled labour which is in shortage in this country agreed that people don't want to work in the rural areas but even in the cities you have to go the hospital only when the doctor is available 
our per capita doctor availabilty is even lower than pakistan!!!

i would love write another passage on the engineers part but i'm really sleepy now so maybe tomorrow......


----------



## Phantom Lancer (Sep 30, 2009)

I would consider the coming of Europeans into India as the beginning of India's decline .Colonial british historians have hugely distorted indian history .

India and China consistently ranked among the top 4 economies in the ancient world (prior to 1700s)

In fact india alone accounted for 1/3 of the world's population at that time and India's trade accounted for almost 33.3 % of global trade Europe's was 24 % and i am talking about whole a country vs a whole continent ! 

When the British left India during the 1950's India's trade was a mere 3.5% down almost by 30% ! 
60 years hence i believe India and China are on their way to the place where they belong ... and thats the top !

and do you think India was a militarily weak country ? 
that deserves a completely separate post


----------



## Phantom Lancer (Sep 30, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> Denial isn't the best medicine. India IS a poor country, whether its pleasant to admit it or not. Almost all of our better paying jobs come from Americans, which is hardly what I'd call 'self sufficient'. There aren't enough jobs for people in India, even though Indians are willing to slog hard for jobs that pay dirt.
> 
> Where in the world would you find a qualified engineer willing to work 8-10 hours a day for a paycheck of less than 400 dollars a month? Where in the world would you find millions of young professionals, spending sleepless nights catering politely to rude and insulting American customers, for less than 300 dollars a month?
> 
> ...



BIG BIG Applause 
Just take the case of Laxmi Mittal . when he tried to acquire Arcelor a European company ,European govt intervened to block the deal ! . Why ? because Mittal was an Indian ! (read from an inferior Eastern culture) . 
Arcelor CEO Guy Dolle went about making racist remarks especially about his Indianess .
and recently Vijay mallya's bid to buy a French champagne producing company from an American businessman was blocked .why ? He was Indian . Explicitly racist . 

Lets assume China is defeated by india . do you think India would then go on to become a developed country unhindered ? Dream on ...

The biggest threat is not China but Big Brother . which sees India and China as a threat to itself and its allys (Europe ofcourse).

it opportunistically takes side 
using India to balance China and Pakistan to balance India . 

There are so many reports being published about Pak using US money to finance its anti-Indian military and yet they make no move to stop or rectify the problem . why ? think


----------



## nix (Oct 3, 2009)

regarding colonialism, I agree that it was not good; but, we have only ourself to blame. China never got fully colonized. Its because they were united. We could neither stop the arabs nor the british. have you heard of 'survival of fittest?.'

@arvindravindranath, 

If we cant use the current amount of land efficiently for farming, how do you think we can do so when land available for farming has shrunk? 

Japan has not in trouble as its population is stable, unlike india. 

Even after the brits took all that they could, we could still have still made it. But we were too complacent. 

Also, japan's rise could not have been possible without US help. The US government helped rebuild japan. The japanese got the know how that they needed to make it big. The japanese people also genuinely worked hard to improve japan, not to reclaim "japan's honor". There was no honor in what the japanese did prior to defeat. The then japanese rulers are responsible for the deaths of millions of chinese. The youth of japan recognize this and are grateful to the US. Thats why japan turned from a third world country to a first world one.

 This guy had a huge role in rebuilding japan:*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Sadly, the US is trying to do the same in afghanistan. But the afghan people do not realise this, and keep hating america.  

Japan and south korea also depend on the US military for protection, from countries like NKorea. 

Those bases in japan are there because both parties want them. If the japs told them to go, they would.


----------



## dips_view (Oct 4, 2009)

posted by nix


> Those bases in japan are there because both parties want them. If the japs told them to go, they would.



Yes its  so easy to u!!!!!!  just like british .. we told them and they obey us. i think imperialism/fascism is nothing to u.. 

how can u believe that  some imperialist force free their colonies?? u give advice to believe Afghans the third grade American propaganda .. even  Americans don't believe it..


----------



## krinish (Oct 16, 2009)

India's 'hegemony' is a threat, says China daily

New Delhi: India's 'hegemony' poses a threat to its neighbours, says a premier Chinese daily, citing India's "recent provocation on border issues with China" as proof.

In an opinion piece, the People's Daily says, "In recent years, Indians have become more narrow minded and intolerable of outside criticism as nationalism sentiment rises, with some of them even turning to hegemony.

"It can be proved by India's recent provocation on border issues with China.''

The newspaper, which is the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist Party, says that India's hegemony "is a hundred per cent result of British colonialism. Dating back to the era of British India, the country covered a vast territory including present-day India, Pakistan, Myanmar, Bangladesh as well as Nepal.''

A previous victim of colonialism and hegemony, it said, India started dreaming about developing its own hegemony after the British left.

"Obsessed with such mentality, India turned a blind eye to the concessions China had repeatedly made over the disputed border issues, and refused to drop the pretentious airs when dealing with neighbours like Pakistan.''

To bolster its argument, the newspaper says that even Jawaharlal Nehru had once said that "India could not play an inferior role in the world, and it should either be a superpower or disappear.'

Calling the dream of being a superpower held by Indians "impetuous", the daily says, "The dream of superpower is mingled with the thought of hegemony, which places the South Asian giant in an awkward situation and results in repeated failure.

Since India has constantly been under foreign rule, the newspaper said, "the essence for the rise of India lies in how to be an independent country, to learn to solve the complicated ethnic and religious issues, to protect the country from terrorist attacks, to boost economic development as well as to put more efforts on poverty alleviation.''

But India's hegemonic designs face geopolitical limitation. "It has the Himalaya mountain to its north, a natural barrier for northward expansion; it has Pakistan to the west, a neighbour it is always at odds over the disputed border issues,'' the article says.

Blaming India for pursuing a foreign policy of "befriend the far and attack the near", it said, "It engaged in the war separately with China and Pakistan and the resentment still simmers. If India really wants to be a superpower, such a policy is shortsighted and immature.''

If India wants to be a superpower, the daily said, it needs to have "its eyes on relations with neighbours and abandon the recklessness and arrogance as the world is undergoing earthshaking changes.

"For India, the ease of tension with China and Pakistan is the only way to become a superpower.''

It said China is "proactively engaging in negotiations with India for the early settlement of border dispute and India should give a positive response".


----------



## arvindravindranath (Oct 29, 2009)

nix,.........
about china being united and india a fractured state....that's utter nonsense. india was far better off than china after the end of the proper mughal empire(ie.aurangzeb's death)

after aurangzeb's death several states like mysore,hyderabad,bengal.kashmir,punjab etc declared independence there was relative peace and prosperity in that time,compare this to the opium wars in china,the whole country was a giant drug addict state with people selling their land holdings,family possessions just to get their daily dose!.....and the several rebellions which cost a lot in terms of human life and loss of wealth eg.
Punti-Hakka Clan Wars, Nien Rebellion, Panthay Rebellion and the Boxer Rebellion etc.....also let us not forget that the europeans were a bit intimidated by the ever assertive(again!) japanese up north,they had taken the whole of manchuria the entire coastline was taken by the french,the germans,the british(hong kong), the portugese(macao) to say a few, china would have definitely fallen over time had the world wars not come........also keep in mind that the process of colonising china started in 1840 and in india nearly a hundred years earlier with the battle of plassey(1757) there was less competition too with no presence of the germans or the japanese around .....

the japanese did not grow like they did because of american investment! name one american company that has made it big in japan!, while honda and toyota have almost bankrupted the american auto industry!

japan mainly made it big because of the severe constitutional restrictions that were put on its military that exist even today, it is technically illegal for them to start a war! all taxpayer money that was supposed to go the military went to investment leading to large government owned industrial behemoths like nippon steel,NTT docomo etc.....

and do you think the americans were doing a favour for the japanese and south koreans by sending its military???!..even the americans had vested interest....the americans just wanted an excuse to send their military to the region to counterbalance that of the Soviet Union....

regarding japan's honor...i can understand that the japanese rulers did wrong and the people recognise that,what i meant that japan experienced reverse brain drain immediately after the war as the skilled japanese workers that had emigrated abroad were discriminated against.......they were called 'nips'(referring to the traditional name of japan "nippon"....india:bharat,japan:nippon) so these workers returned to their homeland to rebuild their country,this is not happening in india,indians still go aboad in large numbers and this is affecting our development....deming's work was a part of a larger motive by the american establishment of gaining an important ally in that region.......


about the farmland.....yes we need more industry and more employment in the rural areas....for industry farmland has to be acquired why?....because when factories are built more people get jobs for the unit area and as the excess labour goes from agriculture farm production will be more efficient,yields will improve...this will make up for any loss in harvest due to land being diverted and maybe even add to it....the problem is of excess employment....and not deficient farmland


regarding the whole problem of population plz visit my blog

*iwanttobeprimeminister.blogspot.com/

ps:i started it only yesterday but its not showing up in google search could any one help?


----------



## arvindravindranath (Oct 30, 2009)

and what can i say about china"s media?....its all state owned bull**** there's nothing more influential than the media and when its controlled by the government,it can be a great aid to state machinery,there are people protesting against china's stringent control of the media and general censorship,just look back a few months and you might remember the great "Green Dam Youth Escort" controversy.....the chinese government made it compulsory for computer manufacturers to install this software which supposedly will "Guide the moral conscience of China's youth" it was nothing more than a mixture of code stolen from a variety of similar american and european  internet child protection software....it was supposed to be intelligent as it would not just block URLS but intelligently scan them and block them eliminating the need for frequent updating but the most absurd discovery was made! if one put a black woman's nude photograph it wasn't censored! but a white woman's would be immediately blocked!....talk abt racial stereotypes!....numerous other bugs were discovered and there were several protests before the plan was chucked.....

just another example of this would be italy and silvio berlusconi.
berlu controls the three largest private news channels and the state owned tv network what more is required?!...there is simply no opposition as they are too busy fighting within themselves this man actually had women on the tv saying that he's a real man and a real leader for italy?...why?...only a real man can have a different 18 year old girl every night even though he himself is 73!!!!...he was once seen in an investor conference wooing investors to italy and when asked why should they go to italy??..

"cause in Italy,you get beautiful women to be your secretaries"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jebarson007 (Nov 2, 2009)

China is nothing but a **** wrapped in gold paper.


----------



## dips_view (Nov 2, 2009)

@jebarson**** how can u know that ???


----------



## happy17292 (Nov 7, 2009)

what about PLAAF and IAF?


----------



## bradstyris (Dec 15, 2009)

The main fight between china and India is water. China want water source held in Arunachal pradesh. which is state of india. China want water for his growth.


----------



## arvindravindranath (Dec 26, 2009)

what happened to this topic????....it was so funnn earlier.......nobody's posting....nix.....where are you????


----------



## ankitsagwekar (Jan 15, 2010)

*what about this ?*

*www.youtube.com/user/boomereye#p/a/u/1/XgfFpojG4GM

*www.youtube.com/user/boomereye#p/a/u/0/XstW0q0efY4


----------

