# Suggestions needed on this Intel Core i5 Gaming rig..



## 2kool2btrue (May 16, 2014)

Hello again! This time I'll be putting together a PC for myself. Here's the basic questionnaire -


1. What is the purpose of the computer? What all applications and games are you going to run? (Stupid answers like 'gaming' or 'office work' will not work. Be exact. Which games? Which applications? Avoid the word 'et cetera.')


Ans: Gaming - Battlefield 4, Bioshock Infinite, Need for Speed - next iterations, Crysis Franchise, Skyrim, Batman Franchise, FIFA 14, 15, 16....20

2. What is your overall budget? If you can extend a bit for a more balanced configuration, then mention this too.

Ans: 25000

3. Planning to overclock?
Ans: Nope

4. Which Operating System are you planning to use?
Ans: Window 8

5. How much hard drive space is needed?
Ans: 1TB

6. Do you want to buy a monitor? If yes, please mention which screen size and resolution do you want. If you already have a monitor and want to reuse it, again mention the size and resolution of monitor you have.
Ans:Yes, a 21" 1080p monitor that shows no ghosting.

7. Which components you DON'T want to buy or which components you already have and plan on reusing?
Ans: *I've already bought an i5-4570, 2x4GB of Corsair vengeance 1600 Mhz RAM and a Sapphire R9 - 270X.*

8. When are you planning to buy the system?
Ans: 1st week of June

9. Have you ever built a desktop before or will this be done by an assembler?
Ans: No but can try my hand at it. Else, will do it with the help of an assembler.

10. Where do you live? Are you buying locally? Are you open to buying stuff from online shops if you don't get locally?
Ans: New Delhi. 

11. Anything else which you would like to say?
Ans: The PC NEEDS to handle all current games. I won't be overclocking. Well actually, I can't.


Please suggest the remaining components. I did some research and could arrive at this system -

Motherboard	- Gigabyte B85 based mobo - Rs. 5600
Hard Drive	- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - Rs. 3800
PSU	- Antec VP550 - Rs. 3650
Keyboard + Mouse - Logitech MK200 - combo - Rs. 750
Display - 21" 1080p - Rs. 9000
Cabinet - Local - Rs. 700

TOTAL - Rs. 23500

1. Which monitor should I go for? I read that the Dell 2240L has ghosting issues in games like FIFA. I wouldn't want a monitor that suffers from this. Is there an alternate monitor which has equally good reputation and is better at gaming?

2. Will a local cabinet suffice(for now) or do I need a branded one right away? If yes, which one would that be? I really like the Corsair Spec 02/03 and also the NZXT Phantom 630(way too expensive for me) but they are over my budget. Then, there is the Deepcool Tesseract BF and CM Force 500 which come under my budget. 
The only thing I wish is if any of these had 2 front USB 3 ports. Are there any other good looking cases that have good cable management and look good? :-/

3. Any 800VA UPS around 2k? I know APC makes some stellar UPS but I can't put in that much money into a UPS right now. A 600VA will probably fall short. How are the Microtek UPSes?


What do you guys think about the build?

Any changes/recommendations?

Thanks


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## rijinpk1 (May 16, 2014)

all chosen components are good except the cabinet. a good cabinet is always recommended. if you are looking for a good one with good cable management options, then drop the idea of getting cm force 500. deepcool tessaract is much better. if you can get corsair spec 03, then that is even better.
for the monitor , check AOC I2269VWM. look for reviews.
always go with reliable ups. so apc gets my vote.
for the mouse, see if you can get lenovo m6811 for around rs 700. it is laser mouse with 1600dpi.


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## bssunilreddy (May 17, 2014)

Motherboard	- Gigabyte B85M-D3H - Rs. 5500
Hard Drive	- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - Rs. 3800
PSU	- Antec VP550 - Rs. 3650
Keyboard + Mouse - Logitech MK200 - Rs. 700
Display - Dell S2240L LED IPS 21" - Rs. 8200
Cabinet - Deepcool TESSERACT - Rs. 2700
UPS - APC 600VA UPS - Rs. 2100
TOTAL -26,600.

But APC 1100VA UPS @ 5.4k or CyberPower BU1000 VA UPS @ 4.4k is recommended.


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## 2kool2btrue (May 17, 2014)

will a 6000VA UPS work? I doubt since the total power draw at max load should be around 370W. Does anyone have a hands on experience of the AOC monitor?
My friend has an AOC VS19 and it comes with 2ms GTG response time. yet, games like fifa suffer from ghosting.
Any other monitor in this range?


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## rijinpk1 (May 17, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> will a 6000VA UPS work? I doubt since the total power draw at max load should be around 370W. Does anyone have a hands on experience of the AOC monitor?
> My friend has an AOC VS19 and it comes with 2ms GTG response time. yet, games like fifa suffer from ghosting.
> Any other monitor in this range?



no..definitely not recommended under load. 
the person who suggested apc 600va itself had bought it for his rig having 650 ti boost and 2 days later told that it is not giving any backup while gaming and was looking to sell it. 

- - - Updated - - -

what is his configuration??


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## 2kool2btrue (May 18, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> no..definitely not recommended under load.
> the person who suggested apc 600va itself had bought it for his rig having 650 ti boost and 2 days later told that it is not giving any backup while gaming and was looking to sell it.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...



He has a very old pc. It has an Intel Pentium E5200 processor, Gigabyte G41 motherboard, 4GB Corsair Vengeance, 1TB WD HDD, CX430 PSU and a Saaphire HD7750.
The framerate is well over 60fps... around 250+ fps at all times(if v-sync is off). I see ghosting with vsync on. The game is smooth as silk though


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## 2kool2btrue (May 21, 2014)

Urgent assistance needed. I need to pick a monitor asap. Should I go with the Dell S2240L? The other options are -
Benq GW2255, Dell E2014H, AOC E2060SW, LG 20M35D.
I don't want ghosting issues as such. Please comment. There's a 10% off on flipkart on these monitors. The 2240L is costing ~ Rs. 8000 which I think is a steal. The only concern is the response times.
HELP!


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## nomad47 (May 21, 2014)

2240l is decent monitor and am yet to face any ghosting issues. And 8k is a really good price for it


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## 2kool2btrue (May 21, 2014)

[MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION] - have you played fifa on this? how's the response time then? which games have you played? Also, is the E2014 better at gaming?


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## rijinpk1 (May 21, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION] - have you played fifa on this? how's the response time then? which games have you played? Also, is the E2014 better at gaming?



dell s2240l. no to the 20" screen. if you can find AOC i2269vwm, that is also a good monitor.


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## 2kool2btrue (May 21, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> dell s2240l. no to the 20" screen. if you can find AOC i2269vwm, that is also a good monitor.



Is the AOC i2269vwm worth the 1.5k premium over the Dell? I like the monitor better than the Dell S2240L because of the better response time and a non reflective display.
Alternatively, I could buy the E2014H for now and maybe get an AOC i2369w later. Is that a wise thing to do?


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## rijinpk1 (May 21, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Is the AOC i2269vwm worth the 1.5k premium over the Dell? I like the monitor better than the Dell S2240L because of the better response time and a non reflective display.
> Alternatively,* I could buy the E2014H for now and maybe get an AOC i2369w later. Is that a wise thing to do?*



wouldn't that be an added expense??


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## nomad47 (May 21, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION] - have you played fifa on this? how's the response time then? which games have you played? Also, is the E2014 better at gaming?



I have played Crysis 3, AC4 etc on it. No FIFA. The AOC monitor has better specs but is also costly. Don't buy the AOC from online retailers as you may face warranty problem. If you buy it buy locally


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## 2kool2btrue (May 21, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> wouldn't that be an added expense??



I meant like a year down the line. Any decent 23-24 inch monitor selling then. I'm coming from a 1366x768 laptop display so any of these monitors look like an upgrade to me. However, I'm still open to a reasonable argument on this. I don't know. totally confused


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 5, 2014)

Hello again. I've been running short of money. Still haven't put together a PC.
I was contemplating changing a few things since the original config is going out of budget.

I still have the R9 270x, 8gb RAM and processor. If I sell the 270x and get a 750ti instead, will it be able to pull its weight at a resolution of 1600x900?

Here are the changes I was considering - 
Motherboard	- AS Rock H81m-HDS - Rs. 4000
Hard Drive	- Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB - Rs. 3550
PSU	- Antec VP450P - Rs. 2400
Keyboard + Mouse - Logitech MK200 - combo - Rs. 750
Display - 19.5" 900p Dell E2014H - Rs. 6000
Cabinet - Local - Rs. 700
UPS - APC 600VA - 2350

Total - 20k

TOTAL - Rs. 23500

If I continue with the previous system, I'll have to shell out a lot more money since
1) I would need a branded, bigger cabinet to accommodate the 270X
2) I would require a 550W SMPS to power the rig
3) A minimum of 800VA UPS

What are your guys suggestions?


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 5, 2014)

a 600va ups would be a waste for that system and better skip it now. selling 270x is also a bad idea. some local case will be  able to accommodate 270x. you better check dimensions. 
if you are so tight on budget, what about postponing it to next month or until you get enough cash? that is just my suggestion though. 270x can be powered by antec vp450p though you might need a molex converter. getting vp550p makes sense though.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 5, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> a 600va ups would be a waste for that system and better skip it now. selling 270x is also a bad idea. some local case will be  able to accommodate 270x. you better check dimensions.
> if you are so tight on budget, what about postponing it to next month or until you get enough cash? that is just my suggestion though. 270x can be powered by antec vp450p though you might need a molex converter. getting vp550p makes sense though.



Won't a 600VA(360W I believe) UPS be able to power an i5-4570 along with a maxwell 750ti? I don't think it should have any problem as the total power draw should not exceed 250W (including the monitor).

Is the 750 ti really that bad? I plan to overclock it to its capacity since I've seen that an OC 750ti reaches the level of a stock 270(not 270x).

Another month.. ahh.. that seems so far away


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 5, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Won't a 600VA(360W I believe) UPS be able to power an i5-4570 along with a maxwell 750ti? I don't think it should have any problem as the total power draw should not exceed 250W (including the monitor).
> 
> Is the 750 ti really that bad? I plan to overclock it to its capacity since I've seen that an OC 750ti reaches the level of a stock 270(not 270x).
> 
> Another month.. ahh.. that seems so far away



do no go for a lower end gpu GeForce GTX 750 Ti In Battlefield 4 - Tom's Hardware. selling it is not a good idea.
with 270x consider assume your total system power consumption is around 280W. since the psu is not 100% efficient, it will draw more power from ups. assuming your psu efficiency as 80%, total power drawn by vp450p will be equal to 350W, monitor extra and do you think you will get the 'required' back up?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 7, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> do no go for a lower end gpu GeForce GTX 750 Ti In Battlefield 4 - Tom's Hardware. selling it is not a good idea.
> with 270x consider assume your total system power consumption is around 280W. since the psu is not 100% efficient, it will draw more power from ups. assuming your psu efficiency as 80%, total power drawn by vp450p will be equal to 350W, monitor extra and do you think you will get the 'required' back up?



Okay you have a point there.. I'll try going to nehru place today and see what the prices are. The only backup I need is for 1 minute max! Since my society's gensets kick in after 20 seconds. Its just that the PC should not shut down in that mean time.

PS - do you know if I can get the Gigabyte B85M-D3H in Nehru Place at a price equivalent to Snapdeal's? It was Rs. 5202 today afternoon. By the time I ordered it, the price changed to Rs. 5368! (while I was on payment page! wth!!). So I cancelled that order and was wondering if I can pick up the board from Nehru Place at an equivalent price. What do you say?

I'll be shopping for a few components this week. Let me know if anything needs to change. Here's what I'm getting -
1. An APC 800 VA UPS - (What price should this be? sells for 4200 on ebay)
2. A cheapest 500/600VA UPS for my router
3. An AOC i2269VWM monitor
4. Antec VP550P (have already ordered it on COD via snapdeal. If I find a lower/equal price in the market, I'll cancel that order)
5. Gigabyte B85M-D3H motherboard (what do you have to say about ASRock H81M-HDS?)
6. WD 1TB blue
7. Generic Cabinet (for now)

Please comment and thank you for replying patiently!


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 7, 2014)

for 1 minute, probably 600va may do. but i dont really know. 
5.3k for that board is still a good price. why to choose an h81 instead of b85?
if you buy cheapest , you will end up spending twice. so no to a cheap ups. why do you wanna buy a separate ups for router?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 10, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> for 1 minute, probably 600va may do. but i dont really know.
> 5.3k for that board is still a good price. why to choose an h81 instead of b85?
> if you buy cheapest , you will end up spending twice. so no to a cheap ups. why do you wanna buy a separate ups for router?



Separate UPS - because the router is in living room, far from the reach of my PC. 
Anyway, that won't be needed now since I'm getting a personal connection. (the other one we used to share between the 3 of us)

I've ordered the B85M-D3H from snapdeal again since the price went down to 5202. Also, my antec vp550 has been shipped.

I'll go get the UPS. how much should an 800VA APC cost in the market(nehru place)? I can see it on ebay for 4.2k so should be lower locally. Right? An 800VA should be able to power an i5-4570+8GB RAM+R9 270X+4 system Fans+Monitor+Speakers+Router. Right?

Monitor again, I'll be picking up the AOC i2269vwm now. Any other suggestions/changes?


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 10, 2014)

800va should be enough. it should be available for 4k or so.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 10, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> 800va should be enough. it should be available for 4k or so.



Hello my Antec PSU arrived. Unfortunately, it is the VP550P v2  I can see a total output of 444W on the dual 12v rails (30A) each. This is pretty low compared to the VP550P v1 which had 540W on the rail. Can this power a card like the GTX 780 or R9 290 in the future? 

I know someone who uses a VS550 powering a GTX770 along with an overclocked 4670k. 

Can I ask Snapdeal for a replacement since they mentioned vp550p only? no v2 was mentioned. :-/


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 10, 2014)

shoot a mail to antec to confirm. see what they say.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 11, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> shoot a mail to antec to confirm. see what they say.



I did and they haven't replied yet. Asked snapdeal about it. They've arranged for a reverse pickup.


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 12, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I did and they haven't replied yet. Asked snapdeal about it. They've arranged for a reverse pickup.



here is the reply i got from antec upon contacting them.


> Yes,both spec are correct.
> But VP550P(230V model) has been phased out, the current model is VP550P V2,the 12V combined output is 444W. The reason why they have a different output wattage when 12V1 and 12V2 is combined is because of the capacitors that's inside the unit. The Japanese caps ha the 444Watts when 12V1 and 12V2 are combined and these are the heavy duty caps. The other model that can generate a 540 watts uses a Taiwan brand caps, these are mid ranged caps. The new version is using the Heavy Duty Japanese Capacitors and they last longer compared to the Taiwan brand


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 13, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> here is the reply i got from Antec upon contacting them.



Still doesn't solve my purpose though. A 444W output is only good enough for this build. If I upgrade my graphics card again, I'll need to change the PSU again. :-/
PS - I read this reply late and Snapdeal has already taken it back from me yesterday evening


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 13, 2014)

anyway, it should be enough for r9 290.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 15, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> anyway, it should be enough for r9 290.



they are issuing a refund instead of a replacement :-/ Now what do I do? The prices have gone up yet again. Is there an alternative PSU you would suggest? Also, a 1TB WD Blue wasn't available in Nehru Place yesterday. Will have to check again this week and I couldn't find one shop that has the Corsair Spec line of cabinets.


PS - I bought the AOC I2269VWM. One hell of a monitor!!  My main concern has been addressed. No ghosting whatsoever. The package had a couple of HDMI cables, a VGA cable and a mobile MHL cable. Awesome stuff! Thanks for mentioning this to me. The price has gone down as well. Got it for 9550 from C2C whereas all others were selling it for a lot more.


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 15, 2014)

*www.digit.in/forum/power-supply-cabinets-mods/184285-psu-suggestion-list.html
Look for antec gx700.

- - - Updated - - -

For hdd, wd blue or black..


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 17, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> *www.digit.in/forum/power-supply-cabinets-mods/184285-psu-suggestion-list.html
> Look for antec gx700.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...



I don't like the looks of Antec GX700. How is the Cooler Master N400 instead? Also, between the Corsair Carbide 200R, Corsair Spec 03, CM N400 and CM K281, which would be more VFM and is worth the price?


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## bssunilreddy (Jun 17, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I don't like the looks of Antec GX700. How is the Cooler Master N400 instead? Also, between the Corsair Carbide 200R, Corsair Spec 03, CM N400 and CM K281, which would be more VFM and is worth the price?



Corsair Spec 03


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 17, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I don't like the looks of Antec GX700. How is the Cooler Master N400 instead? Also, between the Corsair Carbide 200R, Corsair Spec 03, CM N400 and CM K281, which would be more VFM and is worth the price?



200r is not good for price. fetch a little more to get a carbide 300r!


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 17, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> 200r is not good for price. fetch a little more to get a carbide 300r!



I've already gone overboard with the money to spend on a cabinet. I can't spend more than 4k on it now.  Between the 4, what would be your take?


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 17, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I've already gone overboard with the money to spend on a cabinet. I can't spend more than 4k on it now.  Between the 4, what would be your take?



 n400 or spec 03.


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## bssunilreddy (Jun 18, 2014)

Corsair Spec 03


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 18, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I've already gone overboard with the money to spend on a cabinet. I can't spend more than 4k on it now.  Between the 4, what would be your take?



Antec GX700.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 22, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Antec GX700.



What would be the cheapest price for this online?
Also, I'm not buying the VP550P now. Is the Corsair VS550 okay for now? I could change it in a couple of years but is it okay for now? Or should I straight-away buy the Seasonic M12ii-520W?

What would be the lowest price for the Seasonic M12II?


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## nomad47 (Jun 22, 2014)

Stay away I repeat stay away from VS series. Get the Seasonic if you can else at least antec VP


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 22, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Stay away I repeat stay away from VS series. Get the Seasonic if you can else at least antec VP



Okay how is the M12II? is it as good as the S12 from Seasonic? Also, what should be the price for both of these?

I was considering it over the S12II because it is semi modular and would help with cable management. I would be building it myself for the first time 

- - - Updated - - -

Also, where did you but the NZXT Phantom 410 from? Can't find it in stock anywhere online


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 22, 2014)

M12 is better. See if you can find m12 evo version which is fully modular.


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## nomad47 (Jun 22, 2014)

S12 should cost at max 5.5k. U bought the phantom from prime Abgb. M12 I don't have any idea. Last I checked they cost 1 to 1.5k more than the S12. For phantom you may ask when it will be in stock at MD computers.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 22, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> S12 should cost at max 5.5k. U bought the phantom from prime Abgb. M12 I don't have any idea. Last I checked they cost 1 to 1.5k more than the S12. For phantom you may ask when it will be in stock at MD computers.



he says 15 days for the phantom. I think I'll just go for the Spec 03.  [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION] - I can't seem to find the M12 evo anywhere online. Can you tell me more about its price and availability?


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 22, 2014)

No idea about price and availability. you will have to enquire with dealers/shopkeepers.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jun 30, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> No idea about price and availability. you will have to enquire with dealers/shopkeepers.



not available in India yet. Anyway,    [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION] - I ordered the Seasonic M12II 520W, Corsair Spec 03 and 1TB WD Blue. They should arrive in 2-3 days.

Here's what my final build will look like -

*Processor*Intel core i5 - 4570*13,000**CPU Cooler*Stock*0**Motherboard*Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H*5,200**Memory*Corsair Vengeance Blue 8GB(4x2) 1600 MHz*5,200**Graphics Card*Sapphire R9 270x Dual X
*14,000*
*Power Supply*Seasonic M12 II 520W
*5300*
*Cabinet*Corsair Spec 03*4100**Internal Storage*WD Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD
*3,450*
*Optical Drive*none
*0*
*Monitor*AOC i2269VWM
*9550*
*Keyboard, Mouse*
Logitech MK200
*750*
*UPS*APC 800VA
*4300*
*Total**64,850*


Damn! The initial budget was 40k including everything! This is what building a PC over a couple of months does to your wallet


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 30, 2014)

it is fine there.


2kool2btrue said:


> Damn! The initial budget was 40k including everything! This is what building a PC over a couple of months does to your wallet



so another couple of months would have resulted in an r9 290 and of-course an empty wallet


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 4, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> it is fine there.
> 
> 
> so another couple of months would have resulted in an r9 290 and of-course an empty wallet



everything arrived and I've built the system(1st time builder). Only need to install the OS now..


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## nomad47 (Jul 4, 2014)

Pics please.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 4, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> everything arrived and I've built the system(1st time builder). Only need to install the OS now..



Make sure you install 64 bit OS.


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 4, 2014)

Congrats & pics please...


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 4, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> everything arrived and I've built the system(1st time builder). Only need to install the OS now..



pics of beast please


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 7, 2014)

Hey Guys!
Wasn't able to post earlier. Also, ignore the poor quality of pics (my camera is kept at home). Here are some of the photos - 

*i.imgur.com/uf8ePQd.jpg

*i.imgur.com/EQnaaZ7.jpg

*i.imgur.com/7N6QfQa.jpg

*i.imgur.com/hSkmdIM.jpg

*i.imgur.com/pj8Qzto.jpg

*i.imgur.com/MbMl7TO.jpg


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 7, 2014)

nice 
how is the monitor?
install a fan to cool the hdd


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## nomad47 (Jul 7, 2014)

Nice 
That 12V ATX connector is PITA when managing cables if there is no cut out at the top of Motherboard tray


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 8, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> nice
> how is the monitor?
> install a fan to cool the hdd


The HDD temps seem fine at 40 degrees when gaming. I ordered an Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste seeing that the CPU temps hit 90+ when running intel burn test. Otherwise, they don't cross 65 degrees in a non-AC room while playing games like Bioshock Infinite.

The monitor is awesome. No reflections. Dark Blacks. No ghosting at all, even for games like FIFA! (reason why I picked this over the Dell S2240L)


nomad47 said:


> Nice
> That 12V ATX connector is PITA when managing cables if there is no cut out at the top of Motherboard tray



Yes, it sure is. I tried to keep it as tidy as I could. There was no cut out at the top for it unfortunately. I can't replace the case now. Spent 4.2k on it.. lol

PS - Thank you all of you for your inputs!


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 8, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> The HDD temps seem fine at 40 degrees when gaming. I ordered an Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste seeing that the CPU temps hit 90+ when running intel burn test. Otherwise, they don't cross 65 degrees in a non-AC room while playing games like Bioshock Infinite.



the stock cooler is not really meant for any cpu stress test. even artic silver 5 wont help much, i think. install a front intake fan to cool the hdd. that will help.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 8, 2014)

Am I the only one unable to view the pics?


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## nomad47 (Jul 8, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Am I the only one unable to view the pics?



It would appear so


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 8, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Am I the only one unable to view the pics?



looks like , yessss


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 8, 2014)

Anyways, used page source to access image source. Monitor looks sleek. Cable management needs a lot of work.

BTW does the AltGr key on your Logitech MK200 work in Windows 8.1 (check by pressing AltGr + 4 to get rupee symbol)? It worked in Win 8 but doesn't work in 8.1 for me.


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 8, 2014)

i have logitech k120 and pressing right Alt+4 gives rupee symbol on windows 8.1. ₹.
it is simply written as Alt though(no AltGr)


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 8, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Anyways, used page source to access image source. Monitor looks sleek. Cable management needs a lot of work.
> 
> BTW does the AltGr key on your Logitech MK200 work in Windows 8.1 (check by pressing AltGr + 4 to get rupee symbol)? It worked in Win 8 but doesn't work in 8.1 for me.



I'm still on Windows 8. Will check it out later tonight and confirm. Can you guide me how to re-do the cables properly?


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 8, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I'm still on Windows 8. Will check it out later tonight and confirm. Can you guide me how to re-do the cables properly?



> Tuck the ATX 24 pin cable and USB 3.0 cable more into the gourmet, behind the motherboard tray.

> The front panel button connector cable is lying loose near the PSU. Route this through the available gourmet , from behind the motherboard tray.

> Try to route the CPU 8 pin connector cable from behind the motherboard tray.

Do you also have side intake fans? ANd you should get another 120 mm fan for top exhaust.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 8, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> > Tuck the ATX 24 pin cable and USB 3.0 cable more into the gourmet, behind the motherboard tray.
> 
> > The front panel button connector cable is lying loose near the PSU. Route this through the available gourmet , from behind the motherboard tray.
> 
> ...



I'll see what I can do with that.. I have a side window. There is space for 2 120mm fans on the top though. The 8 pin CPU pin connector cannot be routed any other way. I've tried it and it looks even worse.

PS - Alt Gr + 4 = ₹


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

Guys I'm facing a problem. My UPS just shuts down while playing games like Tomb Raider, BF4, Splinter Cell, etc when the power goes off.. Nothing is overclocked. The total draw should not be more than 430W (for the system+monitor). What should I do?
I have an APC 800VA/480W UPS


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

^ does it also shuts down when not playing games?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> ^ does it also shuts down when not playing games?



No, it does not. It also does not shut down when playing FIFA 13. However, when I play a more demanding game, it does(also includes running Unigine Heaven Benchmark)


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 14, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Guys I'm facing a problem. My UPS just shuts down while playing games like Tomb Raider, BF4, Splinter Cell, etc when the power goes off.. Nothing is overclocked. The total draw should not be more than 430W (for the system+monitor). What should I do?
> I have an APC 800VA/480W UPS



Exactly the same problem I faced when I bought my APC 600VA (370w) UPS 3months ago for the configuration in my siggy.
Even APC 800VA UPS is not sufficient only 1000VA (650w) UPS is sufficient when playing demanding games which is APC 110VA (660w) UPS.
So the cheapest 1000VA (650w) UPS I found was CyberPower BU1000 VA UPS @ 4k

While browsing, listening to songs and seeing movies the APC 600 VA UPS supports me fully but while playing GPU intensive games only it does not support at all.

PS:OP has to change his present 800VA to at least 1000VA UPS to fully support his system.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

bssunil said:


> Exactly the same problem I faced when I bought my APC 600VA (370w) UPS 3months ago for the configuration in my siggy.
> Even APC 800VA UPS is not sufficient only 1000VA (650w) UPS is sufficient when playing demanding games which is APC 110VA (660w) UPS.
> So the cheapest 1000VA (650w) UPS I found was CyberPower BU1000 VA UPS @ 4k
> 
> ...



omg, please don't say that. I already went overboard with the UPS. Also, I'm not sure what price I will get for it.. :-/ Can APC help me out if I log a case with them? Shouldn't 480W be more than enough for this system running games? I have a Seasonic M12II SMPS which is rated at 87% efficiency. :-/ :-/
Is there no alternative?


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 14, 2014)

the restarting is not because of the lack of power available from the ups. 480w is plenty for your system under the load. the culprit is likely the psu. it is taking low loads with stepped sine wave, but can not keep up with higher load when the output is stepped sine wave. that is my assumption though. you may try contacting apc. they have pretty good after sale service, i think.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

That PSU is 87% efficient. 87% of 480 W is just ~417 W. And the effieiency will be lower at full loads. Now does the power output seem low?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

^^ The recommended PSU wattage only shows 356W on extremevision with the system running at 90% load. 
The PSU is 87% efficient that means the total power draw should be 410W from the UPS. add 30W for the monitor. Total 440W. Still below 480W. Now what?


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

Try increasing the UPS' sensitivity. Check the manual, it has the instructions mentioned


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Try increasing the UPS' sensitivity. Check the manual, it has the instructions mentioned



Okay.. I'll check this and see what can be done. 
PS - If this doesn't work what about -
1) I undervolt and underclock the card to reduce the power consumption? Remember it does not shut down while playing FIFA so I'm pretty close to the maximum power draw I guess.
2) Call APC and have a technical guy look at it. Maybe my unit is faulty?
3) If I do have to sell it (as a measure of last resort), what price should I get for it?


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

This a problem with the PSU. According to XBitlabs and various pages on the INternet, the M12II does not work properly with stepped-approximated sine wave at high wattage. S12II however does work properly having a different PFC design.
Gold and Bronze: Seasonic Power Supply Units Roundup. Page 4 - X-bit labs


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> This a problem with the PSU. According to XBitlabs and various pages on the INternet, the M12II does not work properly with stepped-approximated sine wave at high wattage. S12II however does work properly having a different PFC design.
> Gold and Bronze: Seasonic Power Supply Units Roundup. Page 4 - X-bit labs



So what should do I do then? Contact Seasonic now or APC? This is concerning.

The article you cited also says the same for S12II 520. Its the 430W that works normally. What a bummer!


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 14, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Okay.. I'll check this and see what can be done.
> PS - If this doesn't work what about -
> 1) I undervolt and underclock the card to reduce the power consumption? Remember it does not shut down while playing FIFA so I'm pretty close to the maximum power draw I guess.
> 2) Call APC and have a technical guy look at it. Maybe my unit is faulty?
> 3) If I do have to sell it (as a measure of last resort), what price should I get for it?



My APC 600VA UPS was bought for 2.1k and now everybody is asking for 1k so you can guess how much you would lose if you try to sell your's. I already recommended APC 1100VA but you went for 800VA.
There is no use if the power draw is more than what the UPS provides as is the case with my UPS as well.
You should try to sell it for 4k at least and buy the CyberPower BU1000VA UPS @ 4k


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 14, 2014)

bssunil said:


> My APC 600VA UPS was bought for 2.1k and now everybody is asking for 1k so you can guess how much you would lose if you try to sell your's. I already recommended APC 1100VA but you went for 800VA.
> There is no use if the power draw is more than what the UPS provides as is the case with my UPS as well.
> You should try to sell it for 4k at least and buy the CyberPower BU1000VA UPS @ 4k



But what about the sinewave thing? Please look at the following threads -
PSU with Active PFC+UPS with Stepped approximation to sinewave (India) [Solved] - Power Supplies - Components
Seasonic s12ii 620w support on 600 va ups ? - Power Supplies - Components

I'm not sure if changing the UPS will work or if its the PSU at fault. If it is the PSU, I'm in for some big trouble. If its the UPS, I can try undervolting the GPU and reducing the clocks till I can settle at a point where the UPS does not shut down.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

bssunil said:


> My APC 600VA UPS was bought for 2.1k and now everybody is asking for 1k so you can guess how much you would lose if you try to sell your's. I already recommended APC 1100VA but you went for 800VA.
> There is no use if the power draw is more than what the UPS provides as is the case with my UPS as well.
> You should try to sell it for 4k at least and buy the CyberPower BU1000VA UPS @ 4k



It's no longer about wattage but about output waveform.

- - - Updated - - -



2kool2btrue said:


> But what about the sinewave thing? Please look at the following threads -
> PSU with Active PFC+UPS with Stepped approximation to sinewave (India) [Solved] - Power Supplies - Components
> Seasonic s12ii 620w support on 600 va ups ? - Power Supplies - Components
> 
> I'm not sure if changing the UPS will work or if its the PSU at fault. If it is the PSU, I'm in for some big trouble. If its the UPS, I can try undervolting the GPU and reducing the clocks till I can settle at a point where the UPS does not shut down.



Try asking APC India about a product exchange.


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 14, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> It's no longer about wattage but about output waveform.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



So you say Seasonic S12II Series PSU = Corsair VS Series PSU since I am getting the same problem. What do you say Harshil???


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 14, 2014)

bssunil said:


> So you say Seasonic S12II Series PSU = Corsair VS Series PSU since I am getting the same problem. What do you say Harshil???



I never said S12II has any problem.


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## cooldude94 (Jul 15, 2014)

This should help you found this after some searching

Weird Power Issue [PSU/UPS]

According to this at max load 

520Watts PSU
80% Efficient
so the maximum my SMPS may draw is 520x100/80 = 650 Watts 
Bear in mind, its 650Watts and not 650VA
a modified sine wave has a power factor on 0.6
650/0.6 = 1083.33va

So you may need to change the ups


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 15, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> I never said S12II has any problem.



I tried a modified BIOS and lowered the voltage from default 1.238V to 1.156V. Also reduced the core clock from 1070 to 950 MHz. Tried running Unigine Heaven and turned off the mains. A very shaky alarm tone came from the UPS and it shut down within 5-7 seconds. 

There is no way the system is even drawing 300W. Please check the HIS R9 270's power consumption here - AnandTech Portal | The AMD Radeon R9 270X & R9 270 Review: Feat. Asus & HIS. 

Its 239W. My voltage is even below what HIS has. I should not be drawing more than 250W at max. 

Also, if its the sinewave thing, shouldn't the PC shut down when I'm not playing games and the lights go off? Then it works fine.

Should I contact APC?

- - - Updated - - -



cooldude94 said:


> This should help you found this after some searching
> 
> Weird Power Issue [PSU/UPS]
> 
> ...



Damnit, that means I need an APC 1100VA. Totally broke now. :-/


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## Nerevarine (Jul 15, 2014)

cooldude94 said:


> This should help you found this after some searching
> 
> Weird Power Issue [PSU/UPS]
> 
> ...



A psu rated at say 530 watt WILL NEVER use that much amount of power unless the system is asking for it.. 530 watt is HUGE in terms of PC components, typically an extreme high end single gpu card + a high end CPU will consume that much power, at full load..

Besides that your logic is flawed, you just cant simply multiply 2 numbers to calculate the amount of power consumed by PSU in full capacity load.. 80 + efficiency means of the total input power, 80 percent is effectively utilized by the components and the rest is dissipated as waste..

What you said about the UPS could be true, though.. A good UPS is always welcome for any build


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## nomad47 (Jul 15, 2014)

I am using a s12II 620 with APC 1.1kVA. Although I had some random UPS shutdown even when main supply was online, never faced any problem while gaming on battery. For my problem I contacted APC customer support and they were very helpful. Although they and myself are yet to figure out what caused the shutdowns the problem vanished as it came. My assumption is the battery was not fully charged and due to voltage fluctuations the UPS went to battery mode and tripped everytime in my Case. Contact APC support. There are some very helpful guys out there.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 15, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I tried a modified BIOS and lowered the voltage from default 1.238V to 1.156V. Also reduced the core clock from 1070 to 950 MHz. Tried running Unigine Heaven and turned off the mains. A very shaky alarm tone came from the UPS and it shut down within 5-7 seconds.
> 
> There is no way the system is even drawing 300W. Please check the HIS R9 270's power consumption here - AnandTech Portal | The AMD Radeon R9 270X & R9 270 Review: Feat. Asus & HIS.
> 
> ...



It's simply a compatibility problem between that PSU and that UPS. Neither Back-UPS nor Back-UPS Pro gives pure sine wave. You'll need an even higher variant. Try to sell that PSU and get an S12II.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyways, contact APC about this too and see if they can do anything.


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 15, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Also, if its the sinewave thing, shouldn't the PC shut down when I'm not playing games and the lights go off? Then it works fine.
> 
> Should I contact APC?



tried to contact apc.

- - - Updated - - -



cooldude94 said:


> According to this at max load
> 
> 520Watts PSU
> 80% Efficient
> ...



his system will never push the psu to maximum load.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 15, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> tried to contact apc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






harshilsharma63 said:


> It's simply a compatibility problem between that PSU and that UPS. Neither Back-UPS nor Back-UPS Pro gives pure sine wave. You'll need an even higher variant. Try to sell that PSU and get an S12II.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, contact APC about this too and see if they can do anything.



Okay, today morning I reset the clocks to default 1070MHz and the voltage was still at 1.156V. The UPS did not shut down while playing Tomb Raider. ALTHOUGH, the UPS's beep sounded like it was ill or dying and I could also hear a lot of 'tut' 'tut' sounds from it before it finally shut down (in 50 seconds flat).

I've contacted APC too. They've asked me to reset the router, discharge it and charge it once again. If the problem persists they would send an engineer to come take a look and repair/replace the product. 
I'll try resetting it later when I go back home.

I went straight from an Antec VP550P to M12II. S12II and M12II are the same models, sans the modular part. The S12II you linked to earlier was a 430W unit that did not have that problem. Are you sure its a PSU thing? If it is, why doesn't it shut down when the PC is not under too much load?

PS - Really appreciate you guys helping me out. Thank you everyone!




nomad47 said:


> I am using a s12II 620 with APC 1.1kVA. Although I had some random UPS shutdown even when main supply was online, never faced any problem while gaming on battery. For my problem I contacted APC customer support and they were very helpful. Although they and myself are yet to figure out what caused the shutdowns the problem vanished as it came. My assumption is the battery was not fully charged and due to voltage fluctuations the UPS went to battery mode and tripped everytime in my Case. Contact APC support. There are some very helpful guys out there.



Glad it worked out for you. Maybe they can do something about it for me as well. Is it possible to ask them to give me a 1.1KVA UPS if this one goes for replacement? I could pay the difference amount as such


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 15, 2014)

^ The M12II is a modular S12II with a different PFC. You cna google for more details on 'M12II with stepped appriximated UPS' and you'll find details. I don't remember the page bit it said S12II 430, S12II 520 and M12II all have different PFC modules.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 15, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> ^ The M12II is a modular S12II with a different PFC. You cna google for more details on 'M12II with stepped appriximated UPS' and you'll find details. I don't remember the page bit it said S12II 430, S12II 520 and M12II all have different PFC modules.


This is what was written on xBit Labs -
_
"*Like the S12-II 520, this PSU refused to work normally with my UPS.* It was stable at loads up to 350 watts when powered by the mains but did not work after switching to the batteries.

Thus, I can suppose that the high-wattage S12-II and M12-II series models have a different active PFC design than the low-wattage models and cannot work normally with UPSes that have non-sinusoid output voltage. The S12-II 430, having a somewhat different interior design than the S12-II 520 and M12-II 620, had no problems working with my UPS."_

I think I'll wait for the APC guy to take a look once and then decide on the course of action. What if the UPS is faulty? I would lose out on an otherwise brilliant PSU. 

PS - what price can I expect for the PSU if I sell it? and also what price for the UPS if I have to sell that instead?


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 15, 2014)

i wont advice you to sell the psu. let us see what apc can offer.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 16, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> i wont advice you to sell the psu. let us see what apc can offer.



I registered a complaint with them yesterday. The executive assured that it seems more like the UPS's fault, there is probably leakage inside. They have asked an engineer to visit my place who, btw, called today morning and said "Sir, aapke computer me graphics card laga hoga. Ushi se dikkat hoti hai. Bina uske sahi chalta hai. Ye complaint kai baar aayi hai"

So I told the guy that my friend has a similar config and his 800va Microtek(Promax actually) can power his PC for 20 mins while gaming.

I made him understand that the total output cannot be more that 300W and when the UPS is capable of handling loads upto 480W, why is it a problem?

He's agreed to come take a look.

Meanwhile, the executive at the support line did assure that APC will replace the UPS if it is at fault.

**fingers crossed**


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 18, 2014)

Nothing. The guy comes and says I need a 1500VA UPS. Too much load.. I told him its not even 350W. He says "wo nahi chalega Sir. Kuch bhi karo, nahi chalega. 480W likha hai output par nahi chalega" 
What do i do now? Complain to APC again? 
I don't agree with APC having stellar customer support.


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## avinandan012 (Jul 18, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> ...... the UPS's beep sounded like it was ill or dying and I could also hear a lot of 'tut' 'tut' sounds from it before it finally shut down (in 50 seconds flat).
> .....



That happens when you pull loads higher than the APC UPS can provide or the battery charge is very low. 
Do a simple test it would clear all confusion. Get a pure resistive load of 350W( 3 100 W bulbs + a 50 W bulb) and run it on battery on he UPS. If it runs then its your PSU the culprit.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding PSU efficiency it depends on operating temperature and Humidity. 
A psu is 80% efficient when it draws 100W from the wall to deliver 80W to components, rest 20W is convertion loss + heat


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 18, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Nothing. The guy comes and says I need a 1500VA UPS. Too much load.. I told him its not even 350W. He says "wo nahi chalega Sir. Kuch bhi karo, nahi chalega. 480W likha hai output par nahi chalega"
> What do i do now? Complain to APC again?
> I don't agree with APC having stellar customer support.



1500va, really! you should e-mail this matter to apc and see what their reply is. your system will hardly draw more than 300W .AnandTech Portal | The AMD Radeon R9 270X & R9 270 Review: Feat. Asus & HIS . assuming an efficiency of 80% or more, expect 350W or less.


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## nomad47 (Jul 18, 2014)

1.5kVA really? I use a 290 for god's sake in 1.1kVA. That engineer must be crazy. Shoot a mail to APC.


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## avinandan012 (Jul 18, 2014)

Probably your batteries are bad. 800VA UPS should atleast give backup to your config for 5 mins(assuming 2x12V 7Ah batteries inside). 
Did the APC guy check the batteries??


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 18, 2014)

avinandan012 said:


> Probably your batteries are bad. 800VA UPS should atleast give backup to your config for 5 mins(assuming 2x12V 7Ah batteries inside).
> Did the APC guy check the batteries??


Nope, he did nothing.. I just started Bioshock infinite and turned off the mains.. BAM! the UPS trembled,, "tit tit" sounds could be heard and then.. and then..my friends.. the inevitable happened..
Sorry for being dramatic,, totally pissed  
In short, the UPS died in flat 4 seconds and the guy blamed my graphics card for it without even wanting to know what my system config was.


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 18, 2014)

charge the ups,say, for a  continuous 16hrs. and see whether the problem persists.


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## nomad47 (Jul 18, 2014)

Did you or the guy did UPS self diagonistics?


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## avinandan012 (Jul 18, 2014)

Watt is a unit, not a measured quantity. The equation is P = I * V (power = current * voltage), but even this only applies to resistive loads in a DC circuit. That's why you see UPS rated at VAC(with approximate some watt rating).

- - - Updated - - -

Try my method pick 3 100W filament bulbs(Rs.10-15 each) and connect to the UPS and run and see how long it lasts.



rijinpk1 said:


> charge the ups,say, for a continuous 16hrs. and see whether the problem persists.



this


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 18, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> charge the ups,say, for a  continuous 16hrs. and see whether the problem persists.



Yes charge the UPS for at least 12 hours and then see if it is giving backup or not because when I bought my APC 600VA it wasn't giving me any backup but after several hours of charging now its working normally as my max requirement is 480w including the monitor.


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## avinandan012 (Jul 18, 2014)

A 500W 80+ bronze certified PSU's power draw @100% load will be calculated like
Active power factor correction = .9 (most consumer PSU have this rating)

500/(.81*.9) = 686VA

80+ bronze is atleast 81% efficiency


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 18, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Did you or the guy did UPS self diagonistics?



He didn't do anything.



avinandan012 said:


> Watt is a unit, not a measured quantity. The equation is P = I * V (power = current * voltage), but even this only applies to resistive loads in a DC circuit. That's why you see UPS rated at VAC(with approximate some watt rating).
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



Ok. I'll see about this. My UPS is on charge since morning. By the time I get back home it should already be on charging for 11 hours.
However, it did provide 20 mins backup on idle/light usage so I doubt the batteries are at fault.



bssunil said:


> Yes charge the UPS for at least 12 hours and then see if it is giving backup or not because when I bought my APC 600VA it wasn't giving me any backup but after several hours of charging now its working normally as my max requirement is 480w including the monitor.



Like I said, it does provide backup when the system is idle.



avinandan012 said:


> A 500W 80+ bronze certified PSU's power draw @100% load will be calculated like
> Active power factor correction = .9 (most consumer PSU have this rating)
> 
> 500/(.81*.9) = 686VA
> ...


 Do you mean VA or Watts here? 
So you mean to say that if my system components take 300W(going by anandtech's calculation of 270-280W + adding 20-30 watts on it) it is effectively drawing 300/(0.81x0.9) = ~412W from the UPS? Add another 30W of the monitor and 6W from the Router and another 5W for any variance as such it is still 453W.
Now if the UPS itself is 90% efficient then we have a problem. If it is designed to give 480W then I should be okay.
PS - my PSU states 87% efficiency so that should be under 400W.

I'm sure I'm cutting it close because the UPS has that clicking sound which seems like it just exceeds the threshold within seconds and shuts down. Perhaps if I had like 25W lesser I wouldn't face this problem? (Just guessing)


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## nomad47 (Jul 18, 2014)

When I called APC they explained me a self diagonistics procedure to check if the UPS was at fault. They should have done that to you also


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 18, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> When I called APC they explained me a self diagonistics procedure to check if the UPS was at fault. They should have done that to you also



Yeah. Holding down the reset button etc. I tried all of that. Also tried changing the sensitivity from medium to high. Still nothing.


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## nomad47 (Jul 18, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Yeah. Holding down the reset button etc. I tried all of that. Also tried changing the sensitivity from medium to high. Still nothing.


Medium to high will create problem in battery mode. Try low also. But I think its PSU and UPS incompatibility issue.


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## avinandan012 (Jul 19, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> Do you mean VA or Watts here?


I meant VA

W = PSU rated Power/(efficiency/100) W = xxx Watts
VA = xxx/power factor of PSU

example : for a 500W rates PSU with 87% efficiency with PF =0.9 on 100% load(i.e. the PC drawing 500W)

Watts drawn from UPS = 500/.87 = 575 W
VA rating at this point = 575 /0.9 = 639 VA

For this load to be run from a UPS(assuming no other load is connected except that PSU), the UPS VA rating *must* be > 639VA *and* Watt rating *must *be > 575W 

Hope this makes things clear.

- - - Updated - - -

btw consumer PSUs efficiency is not constant across its entire load range


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## aniket.cain (Jul 20, 2014)

I have a M12II 750W PSU, and an APC-BackUPS Pro 1000 (1000VA/600W), and I have not faced any such compatibility issues. I had this issue with my other Intex UPS (600VA), which couldn't handle heavy games, and used to overload. 

This APC one has a display which can show the current power consumption, and according to it my system (in sig. - OC to 4.3GHz) draws 375-380W when playing Crysis 3 or BF4. Idle consumption is around 80W. So a 800VA UPS should be fine for such loads.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 21, 2014)

aniket.cain said:


> I have a M12II 750W PSU, and an APC-BackUPS Pro 1000 (1000VA/600W), and I have not faced any such compatibility issues. I had this issue with my other Intex UPS (600VA), which couldn't handle heavy games, and used to overload.
> 
> This APC one has a display which can show the current power consumption, and according to it my system (in sig. - OC to 4.3GHz) draws 375-380W when playing Crysis 3 or BF4. Idle consumption is around 80W. So a 800VA UPS should be fine for such loads.



This is helpful. I'm guessing the M12II's internal components of your 750 and my 520 should be more or less similar? Damnit, if only I had a kill-o-watt meter kind of thing. I'm hoping my PSU is not inefficient and it is entirely the UPS's fault here.

Will follow up with APC again.

Thanks!


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 22, 2014)

Is it advisable that I upgrade from a 270x to a Sapphire DualX HD7970(freshly RMA'd)? The additional I will have to pay is around 3k. What do you think? ( [MENTION=95020]avinandan012[/MENTION] ,   [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION] ,  [MENTION=98996]aniket.cain[/MENTION] ,   [MENTION=105611]bssunil[/MENTION],   [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION])


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 22, 2014)

how much warranty  remaining for that 7970? remember high end gpus may have used for mining purposes and are selling for dirt cheap rates. so beware.


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## nomad47 (Jul 22, 2014)

Agree with [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION]. If it is used for mining then you are better off without it. AMD may even decline to honor warranty if the GPU was used for mining .

But if it was RMA'd it was repaired or is it a new seal pack? If new sealed pack then you can go for it


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 22, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Agree with [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION]. If it is used for mining then you are better off without it. AMD may even decline to honor warranty if the GPU was used for mining .
> 
> But if it was RMA'd it was repaired or is it a new seal pack? If new sealed pack then you can go for it



I already bought it :-/ I'm not sure I am supposed to put links here. But here is the card - For Sale : Graphic Card Sapphire 7970 DUAL-X - Free Shipping. 

He said it hasn't been used for mining at all and is a brand new card. Did I just get ripped off? :S



rijinpk1 said:


> how much warranty  remaining for that 7970? remember high end gpus may have used for mining purposes and are selling for dirt cheap rates. so beware.



It says 1 year and 8 months


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## nomad47 (Jul 22, 2014)

Checked the thread. And its not used for mining than well and good. But even if it was used, as it was RMAed it can be done again. I think you are safe from that point.
While using the card keep a lookout for ailing fan in the GPU. The fan usually fails first in a card used for mining. How much did it cost? Did the seller mention the reason for RMA?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Checked the thread. And its not used for mining than well and good. But even if it was used, as it was RMAed it can be done again. I think you are safe from that point.
> While using the card keep a lookout for ailing fan in the GPU. The fan usually fails first in a card used for mining. How much did it cost? Did the seller mention the reason for RMA?



he said it just died all of a sudden. He also has an R9 280x on sale which is priced at 16.8k
14k shipped was the price which I think is a good bargain. The GPU looks new in the pic as well and the guy sounded legit when i spoke to him on the phone.. Fingers crossed.
Should I have bargained on the price more? I can already see that this is the lowest anyone has charged for an RMA'd new 7970 which has more than 1.5 years warranty on it. Couldn't find anything similar on OLX as well. 

_More of an impulsive buying kind of thing. God bless my SMPS and that wretched APC 800VA UPS!_

PS - What price can I sell my Sapphire R9 270X Dual X for? It has around 2years 7 months warranty on it


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 23, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> I already bought it :-/ I'm not sure I am supposed to put links here. But here is the card - For Sale : Graphic Card Sapphire 7970 DUAL-X - Free Shipping.
> 
> *He said it hasn't been used for mining at all and is a brand new card. Did I just get ripped off? :S*
> 
> ...



we can't always blindly believe what the seller tells . .anyway, since you have already bought, wait for the card and then game 

- - - Updated - - -



2kool2btrue said:


> PS - What price can I sell my Sapphire R9 270X Dual X for? It has around 2years 7 months warranty on it



sell for 11k-12k.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 26, 2014)

Received the card and it's in perfect mint condition.. looks brand new(did not have the tapes on though but scratchless and no dust to be seen).. put it into my system and it works fine as well.. 
Should I check anything else as well?

Here'a pic - 
*i.imgur.com/XWZgTX0.jpg


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 27, 2014)

try some games  and if the card perform well, then nothing to worry about.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 28, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> try some games  and if the card perform well, then nothing to worry about.



I did and they don't seem to crash or anything. I can see a noticeable frame rate improvement in games. For instance, the in-game benchmark in Tomb Raider gave an average FPS of 60.5 on the 270x at ultra settings. On the 7970, it gives an average frame rate of 78 fps.
Similarly Bioshock Infinite has gone up from 72-73 frames to 88-92 frames. 

PS - The APC problem persists. No engineer has re-visited. My complaint is still open. Even with the 7970, the PC does not shut down while playing FIFA 13. Yet, it shuts down instantly while playing other games. :-/


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 28, 2014)

call them once again. anyway, your power consumption will be increased with the new gpu.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 28, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> call them once again. anyway, your power consumption will be increased with the new gpu.



will it really still push the APC to its limits? I doubt that the power consumption should go over 350W in games


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 28, 2014)

it depends on the load on cpu+gpu. normally it may not go 350W+ though. i cant really say, but i hope. the apc model br1000g will show the actual realtime power consumption but is much costlier.


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 30, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> it depends on the load on cpu+gpu. normally it may not go 350W+ though. i cant really say, but i hope. the apc model br1000g will show the actual realtime power consumption but is much costlier.



sold the R9-270x  Still waiting for APC to respond. This is taking forever


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 30, 2014)

^^ how much did you get it?


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## 2kool2btrue (Jul 31, 2014)

rijinpk1 said:


> ^^ how much did you get it?



11.5k.. not bad I guess


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## rijinpk1 (Jul 31, 2014)

2kool2btrue said:


> 11.5k.. not bad I guess



that is not a bad price. anyway the card is barely used though!


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## 2kool2btrue (Aug 2, 2014)

hey! I was thinking of changing my stock CPU cooler to something else. I have a SPEC 03 case which has a CPU Cooler clearance of 157mm so I don't think the CM 212 will fit. Also, I can't overclock so the 212 is overkill anyway.
Which one of these are better?
1. Deep Cool Gammaxx 300
2. CM TX3 EVO


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## rijinpk1 (Aug 2, 2014)

tx3 evo or antec a40.


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## bssunilreddy (Aug 2, 2014)

Deepcool Gamma Archer @ 470 (snapdeal)


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## 2kool2btrue (Feb 24, 2015)

Bumping an old thread again. How is the Cyber Power BU1000 UPS? My 800VA UPS just shuts down with my 7970 GPU. Will this be able to support it?

PS - I swapped the card out and put in a friend's 7770 and that works fine with my current UPS so i don't think my PSU is responsible there.


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## bssunilreddy (Feb 25, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Bumping an old thread again. *How is the Cyber Power BU1000 UPS?* My 800VA UPS just shuts down with my 7970 GPU. Will this be able to support it?
> 
> PS - I swapped the card out and put in a friend's 7770 and that works fine with my current UPS so i don't think my PSU is responsible there.



Superb.


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## 2kool2btrue (Feb 25, 2015)

Will it support the HD7970? I don't want to be stuck with 2 UPS's that cant power 1 last gen's high end card


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

Downgraded to an ASUS Strix GTX 960. Still the same frikkin problem with the 800VA UPS. Anyone knows where I can find one of those Kill-a-Watt meter kind of thing?


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Downgraded to an ASUS Strix GTX 960. Still the same frikkin problem with the 800VA UPS. Anyone knows where I can find one of those Kill-a-Watt meter kind of thing?



Meco Energy Meter PG07 Killawatt Energy Metering Power Guard Kill A Watt | eBay


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

Is it worth the price? 

Somehow, I now feel that my Seasonic M12II PSU is responsible for not being able to cope with my UPS. With a GTX 960, the power consumption cannot exceed 250W for the entire system. The Seasonic is 80 plus bronze specified so even if I take 80% efficiency, the consumption from the socket should be 250/0.8 = 312.5 Watts. Add another 35W for the monitor so I am still under 350W. An APC 800 VA should be able to handle at least 800 x 0.6 = 480 Watts. This does not make any sense at all. There are three possibilities to this - 
1. Incompatibility between my UPS and PSU
2. UPS is not able to handle upto 480W.
3. PSU is not 80% efficient.

  [MENTION=135617]rijinpk1[/MENTION], [MENTION=95020]avinandan012[/MENTION] , [MENTION=163858]cooldude94[/MENTION] ,  [MENTION=140941]harshilsharma63[/MENTION],  [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION], [MENTION=105611]bssunil[/MENTION] , - Guys, what do you think? Should I call it a day and get the APC 1100VA instead? If my PSU turns out to be a dud, I'll be pretty calm about it.. You know..


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Is it worth the price?
> 
> Somehow, I now feel that my Seasonic M12II PSU is responsible for not being able to cope with my UPS. With a GTX 960, the power consumption cannot exceed 250W for the entire system. The Seasonic is 80 plus bronze specified so even if I take 80% efficiency, the consumption from the socket should be 250/0.8 = 312.5 Watts. Add another 35W for the monitor so I am still under 350W. An APC 800 VA should be able to handle at least 800 x 0.6 = 480 Watts. This does not make any sense at all. There are three possibilities to this -
> 1. Incompatibility between my UPS and PSU
> ...



Get the cheaper CyberPower BU-1000-IN @ 4k rather than APC 1100VA @ 5.6k


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## nomad47 (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Is it worth the price?
> 
> Somehow, I now feel that my Seasonic M12II PSU is responsible for not being able to cope with my UPS. With a GTX 960, the power consumption cannot exceed 250W for the entire system. The Seasonic is 80 plus bronze specified so even if I take 80% efficiency, the consumption from the socket should be 250/0.8 = 312.5 Watts. Add another 35W for the monitor so I am still under 350W. An APC 800 VA should be able to handle at least 800 x 0.6 = 480 Watts. This does not make any sense at all. There are three possibilities to this -
> 1. Incompatibility between my UPS and PSU
> ...



I am using a APC UPS. I got random UPS trip at the moment of powercut. Call APC, run the self diagonistics with their engineer. Fully charging the UPS and Proper earthing solved my case


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

bssunil said:


> Get the cheaper CyberPower BU-1000-IN @ 4k rather than APC 1100VA @ 5.6k


Thanks. I'll keep this into consideration. Is there anyone on this forum who's using a CyberPower UPS? Would like to talk to him first. 



nomad47 said:


> I am using a APC UPS. I got random UPS trip at the moment of powercut. Call APC, run the self diagonistics with their engineer. Fully charging the UPS and Proper earthing solved my case


Ah haan. Sadly, I've had this talk with the APC rep earlier and he blamed me for using a GPU with an 800 VA UPS. Wanted me to get at least a 1500VA.. Will give it a shot once again, maybe. Don't you think an 800VA should suffice for my config?


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## nomad47 (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Thanks. I'll keep this into consideration. Is there anyone on this forum who's using a CyberPower UPS? Would like to talk to him first.
> 
> 
> Ah haan. Sadly, I've had this talk with the APC rep earlier and he blamed me for using a GPU with an 800 VA UPS. Wanted me to get at least a 1500VA.. Will give it a shot once again, maybe. Don't you think an 800VA should suffice for my config?



800VA should suffice, IMO. 1.1KVA is the safer bet


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

nomad47 said:


> 800VA should suffice, IMO. 1.1KVA is the safer bet



But would you recommend that I change my UPS? If it should suffice, I would not want to waste any more money on this. If not, I may go with what [MENTION=105611]bssunil[/MENTION] has suggested. Could even go in for the 1.1KVA APC. (Don't want to get screwed over 100VA in the future )


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## nomad47 (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> But would you recommend that I change my UPS? If it should suffice, I would not want to waste any more money on this. If not, I may go with what [MENTION=105611]bssunil[/MENTION] has suggested. Could even go in for the 1.1KVA APC. (Don't want to get screwed over 100VA in the future )



tagging one of the experts of UPS [MENTION=138043]kARTechnology[/MENTION]


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> But would you recommend that I change my UPS? If it should suffice, I would not want to waste any more money on this. If not, I may go with what  @bssunil  has suggested. Could even go in for the 1.1KVA APC. (Don't want to get screwed over 100VA in the future )



*Let me get some facts straight buddy.*

*Theoretical total power used by your system while using GTX960 was 350w right* *but what about the power drawn(used) during peak gaming sessions*.
*GTX960 is a 120w TDP GPU but it uses 200w while in peak gaming sessions.* *So that will take your power consumption over the 480w limit provided by your APC 800VA UPS. This is why your 800VA UPS is not supporting your HD7970 GPU at all. Your HD7970 GPU needs at least 1500VA UPS as recommended by the APC Technician while taking in to account the peak power drawn during peak gaming sessions.*


*Conclusion: My best bet for you is going with either CyberPower 1000VA or APC 1100VA UPS as they will provide 600w or 660w power backup depending on the respective models.*

*
My Case: My APC 600VA UPS does not provide me backup during any gaming session(even though my total output used by my system is less than 360w) but gives me good backup when I am just browsing because the peak power drawn during any gaming session is greater than the usual 360w limit given by my UPS.

During normal browsing sessions my system peak power drawn is less than 360w so it gives me good backup.*


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

bssunil said:


> Let me get some facts straight buddy.
> 
> Theoritical total power used by your system while using GTX960 was 350w right *but what about the power used during peak gaming sessions*.
> *GTX960 is a 120w TDP GPU but it uses 200w while in peak gaming sessions.* So that will take your power consumption over the 480w limit by your APC 800VA UPS. This is why your 800VA UPS is not supporting your HD7970 GPU at all. Your HD7970 GPU needs at least 1500VA UPS as recommened by the APC Technician while takimg in to account the power drawn during peak gaming sessions.
> ...



lol.. I will bend the quoted facts again  jk.. 

Theoretical Power used during a PC with a GTX 960 at idle is well under 100W! The 350W I calculated should be the power draw at 100% CPU + GPU usage. The 200W you state is something the entire test rigs for the Tech websites across the internet consume. 
Check these out - 
Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 review â€¢ Eurogamer.net
Review: Asus Strix GTX 960 DirectCU II - Graphics - HEXUS.net - Page 11
Nvidia GeForce GTX 960 Review - Power and Thermals | bit-tech.net

An R9-280x/7970 consumes about 350W at load and yes, I'm talking about the entire system again. 

If a system running GTX 960 consumed more than 480W then god was miraculously kind on those who were able to run an R9-290 with 1KVA UPS'es


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> lol.. I will bend the facts again  jk..
> 
> Theoretical Power used during a PC with a GTX 960 at idle is well under 100W! The 350W I calculated should be the power draw at 100% CPU + GPU usage. The 200W you state is something the entire test rigs for the Tech websites across the internet consume.
> Check these out -
> ...



Then How come my system which is in my Siggy is not supported by APC 600VA UPS at all while gaming sessions otherwise fully support me during normal browsing sessions.
Tell me how is this possible to my system...    Leave your case for a second....


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

bssunil said:


> Then How come my system which is in my Siggy is not supported by APC 600VA UPS at all while gaming sessions otherwise fully support me during normal browsing sessions.
> Tell me how is this possible to my system...    Leave your case for a second....



Because the total system power draw depending on your setup can range from anywhere between 230-280W -
AnandTech | The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Review: GK106 Fills Out The Kepler Family
MSI GeForce GTX 660 TwinFrozr III review - Graphics card power consumption

Again, with an 80% efficient PSU the system would consume around 280/0.8 = 350W without the other components (monitor, case fans, HDD's,  etc). Try playing a lighter game such as DOTA 2 or FIFA 14 and your system won't turn off during game  (if vsync is enabled). Like me, you should be fine with an 800VA UPS.

Also, if I recall correctly, another member had posted it on this thread that there's a 90% efficient active PFC conversion involved. In that case, the power draw will be even higher - 280/(0.8*0.9) = 388W.


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> Because the total system power draw depending on your setup can range from anywhere between 230-280W -
> AnandTech | The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Review: GK106 Fills Out The Kepler Family
> MSI GeForce GTX 660 TwinFrozr III review - Graphics card power consumption
> 
> ...



Maybe you are right but anyways I plan to get that CyberPower 1000VA UPS in the future to future proof my UPS needs. Thanks again.


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 7, 2015)

bssunil said:


> Maybe you are right but anyways I plan to get that CyberPower 1000VA UPS in the future to future proof my UPS needs. Thanks again.



Sure. You would need to upgrade in order to protect your PC during gaming sessions. I, on the other hand (even going by the same logic mentioned earlier) should still be fine with an 800VA UPS. 250/(0.8*0.9) = 347W + 35W for the monitor (I'm really stretching it here as well, it should be around 25W at most). That's still 375W. Much less than the rated 480W for my UPS. 
With a 7970 I agree that the UPS should conk off since the system load is around 335W which is again (335/0.8*0.9) = 465W + 35W monitor = 500W  There I would certainly need a 1KVA UPS. But with a GTX 960? No way. 

Thanks for mentioning the CyberPower UPS though. If all fails, I may want to take a look into it


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## kARTechnology (Mar 8, 2015)

*how much backup time do you require?*
according to APC, their ups'es are around 60% efficient....as 800*va*=480*W maximum peak load it can handle. 
more the power consumed lesser the backup *(and [very] lesser the power consumed lesser the efficiency in some cases)

it provides a mere *1 min* backup @ peak load(480W). *when the battery is full and healthy*....
you should rush to save & shutdown asap when gaming. 

*see runtime graph @ Buy APC BACK-UPS 800VA 230V INDIA - Technical Specifications and Information | APC
hover mouse on curve to get runtime.*
     [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION] thank you.

i run *2 pc's and a tv, pioneer HT and a powered subwoofer, streaming hd videos and few fans and lights* off my 800va inverter for 45mins...how? my battery has high capacity and inverter is an efficient one. outputs pure-sinewave too.
at the same time when used with tv and pc + 1fan and 1light I get easily 6 hours backup*. only pc + 1 fan and 1 light = 10 hours backup.*

*with normal browsing


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 8, 2015)

kARTechnology said:


> *how much backup time do you require?*
> according to APC, their ups'es are around 60% efficient....as 800*va*=480*W maximum peak load it can handle.
> more the power consumed lesser the backup *(and [very] lesser the power consumed lesser the efficiency in some cases)
> 
> ...



TBH, I'm okay with even 1 minute of backup. It takes <30 seconds for the generators to kick in once there's a power-cut. However, the UPS just shuts down as soon as there's a powercut while emitting a long beep. 
In this case it's clearly not able to take the load which, like I mentioned earlier, should definitely be below 400W.

Thanks for replying!


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## nomad47 (Mar 8, 2015)

2kool2btrue said:


> TBH, I'm okay with even 1 minute of backup. It takes <30 seconds for the generators to kick in once there's a power-cut. However, the UPS just shuts down as soon as there's a powercut while emitting a long beep.
> In this case it's clearly not able to take the load which, like I mentioned earlier, should definitely be below 400W.
> 
> Thanks for replying!


Do one thing. Unplug your entire system from the UPS. Switch in the mains and let it charge for a full day. Use your system after that with the UPS. And switch off mains when not in use


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 8, 2015)

nomad47 said:


> Do one thing. Unplug your entire system from the UPS. Switch in the mains and let it charge for a full day. Use your system after that with the UPS. And switch off mains when not in use



Did try this earlier but that was for 12 hours only. Will try it again for a full day, if you say so. Going to contact APC about this as well


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## cs4sid (Mar 12, 2015)

[MENTION=232182]2kool2btrue[/MENTION] how is your experience with Corsair Spec 03, how's the cable management and the build of the case itself? Do you like the case or would you change it if you could?


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## kARTechnology (Mar 12, 2015)

cs4sid said:


> [MENTION=232182]2kool2btrue[/MENTION] how is your experience with Corsair Spec 03, how's the cable management and the build of the case itself? Do you like the case or would you change it if you could?



I have spec 02...


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## 2kool2btrue (Mar 16, 2015)

cs4sid said:


> [MENTION=232182]2kool2btrue[/MENTION] how is your experience with Corsair Spec 03, how's the cable management and the build of the case itself? Do you like the case or would you change it if you could?



Build of the case is decent for its price. The cable management is decent barring the only con I find is that there's no cutout for the 12V motherboard power connector. 

If I could, I would buy an el-cheapo case. TBH, I don't even look at the case once the PC is switched on. 

For what its worth, the case does remind me of Bane (Tom Hardy) from The Dark Knight Rises.


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