# Government allows up to 51% FDI in multi-brand retail, 100% in single brand



## d6bmg (Sep 14, 2012)

> In a big move, the government on Friday cleared the proposal to allow up to 51 per cent Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in multi-brand retail. The government has allowed the FDI on the condition that states will be allowed to decide whether they want to opt for it.



Link: Government allows up to 51% FDI in multi-brand retail, 100% in single brand - The Economic Times

At last!!! This is awesome. This have the capability to bring the revolution in Indian tech market! Above all, dollar-rupee exchange get is going to come down. 
What do you guys think?


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## dexbg (Sep 14, 2012)

Hello Walmart , Tesco n Costco ?


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## theserpent (Sep 14, 2012)

d6bmg said:


> Link: Government allows up to 51% FDI in multi-brand retail, 100% in single brand - The Economic Times
> 
> At last!!! This is awesome. This have the capability to bring the revolution in Indian tech market! Above all, dollar-rupee exchange get is going to come down.
> What do you guys think?


I agree with you FDI is awesome
why?
amazon might(95%) enter india.
It might end up buying expensivekartP flippy )
India's economy might restore.
Many foregin tech companys might tie up with many smaller companines therby..reducing costs 

but states will decide it .thats bad Karnataka wont get it then


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## Renny (Sep 14, 2012)

A much needed move to boost GDP growth.

Does the Government have the numbers to push these reforms through? Will it be suspended like the last time due to the UPA allies? Only time will tell....


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## baccilus (Sep 14, 2012)

Guys don't we need just one state to say yes to this because the concerned company can then simply supply stuff online? Most of the stuff we are interested in are available online anyways.


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## dashing.sujay (Sep 14, 2012)

theserpent said:


> but states will decide it .thats bad Karnataka wont get it then



Its not at all bad, FDI can do more harm than gain in some states. Think about local economy especially SMEs.


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## Skud (Sep 14, 2012)

So that's how poor of our country will be saved from poverty.


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## dashing.sujay (Sep 14, 2012)

Skud said:


> So that's how poor of our country will be saved from poverty.



This.

FDI is a debate which is never going to reach on a conclusion. Its same like half of the India is BPL and still India is spending Billions on a Mars mission.


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 14, 2012)

FDI in retail will be a major boost to Indian economy if implemented correctly.it will help farmers get right price for their products,remove the middleman who usually gets a major share of the price leaving farmers with little in hand(e.g.farmer sells onion to middleman at Rs.10/kg & by the time it reaches street shop vendors its price is Rs.60/kg) & help in reducing wastage.


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## Hrishi (Sep 14, 2012)

Can some1 do the the explaining for me ??? Why it will be harmful in one way ??


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 14, 2012)

those who oppose it say that it will finish off the small sellers/mom & pop shop/neighbourhood kirana store.it is basically nothing but similar to argument which was used in 1991 at the time of economic reforms(foreign companies will enslave india again like east india company,yeah right!!).


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## funskar (Sep 15, 2012)

we will see newegg or Fry's in India any time soon ?

Between over 6crore small shopkeeper will loss their business..
And who knows any other fdi scam comes out..
I wud say it's 50-50..


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## abhinavmail1 (Sep 15, 2012)

Buddy u stole my words.thats extactly i want to say farmers gets high price of their produts and consumers gets cheaper produts by removing middle man from the scene





whitestar_999 said:


> FDI in retail will be a major boost to Indian economy if implemented correctly.it will help farmers get right price for their products,remove the middleman who usually gets a major share of the price leaving farmers with little in hand(e.g.farmer sells onion to middleman at Rs.10/kg & by the time it reaches street shop vendors its price is Rs.60/kg) & help in reducing wastage.


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## d6bmg (Sep 15, 2012)

Rishi. said:


> Can some1 do the the explaining for me ??? Why it will be harmful in one way ??



Harmful in the way that the thugs related to politics or their nearest supporters who works as middleman won't get their profit. And the political parties fear for their vote which is most important to them and the reason of doing all the so called improvements..



funskar said:


> Between over 6crore small shopkeeper will loss their business..



That's the common mis-conception which are interpreted to us by the politicians to confuse us against FDI.


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## Hrishi (Sep 15, 2012)

> Harmful in the way that the thugs related to politics or their nearest supporters who works as middleman won't get their profit.


ahh. I see.

Well , I really don't like the policy of Middle-Man or such thugs. They might loose their jobs , but this sort of jub su*ks in a way.
Sorry , if it hurts anyone.But the middle-man thing has corrupted and looted normal people like me. If this is the only reason wy FDI is controversial , then I will end up on the other side supporting FDI .

6Crore , normal shop owners loosing their job doesn't seems true to me . Although I am very happy to read that it will help farmers , (who are probably on the verge of extinction in India due to extreme poverty ).

Let there be FDI.  , electronic devices will become more affordable , what else do I want at this moment ?? 

But as Funskar pointed out about the scam , it will really ruin India if something like this happens. It will be a big time scam.


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## Anorion (Sep 15, 2012)

lol. kingfisher got saved.


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

Will someone explain, if farmers are gonna sell at higher price how come customers will get lower price?

And middlemen will never be removed unless we eradicate illiteracy completely (some other factors are there too).


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## KDroid (Sep 15, 2012)

Bit long but I request you all to go through it.



Spoiler






> The United States of America and the European Union have been seeking that India permit Foreign Direct Investment in its retail trade. India has obviously resisted the demand till date. Their object is that large international chain must control the food supply chain and the distribution of other items of daily utility in one of the world’s largest markets, which accounts for over one-sixth of world’s population.
> 
> In any trade negotiations, you seek counter-concession for concessions you grant. Increasingly, both the USA and the European Union have become more protectionists. Without extracting any concession back, we have taken a unilateral decision, gifting to their retailers the right to control the distribution network in India.
> 
> ...






Every line makes sense to me.

Most importantly this



> _A fragmented market is always in consumer interest. A consolidated market restricts the consumer choices. Thus, if the number of establishments is reduced and consumer options are eliminated, structured retail is hardly likely to serve consumer interests. It can even lead to international retailers with deeper pockets to first sell at low prices, eliminate competition and then exploit the consumers. The consequences of predatory pricing can always be felt._



It is what Walmart does everywhere.


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

I wish I could give you a rep. Very few people understand the repercussions in a country like India and that too with politicians like these. Much have been said about 90s' economic reforms, but hardly a few percentage of the population have benefited from it. You and I being some of the beneficiaries is no consolation. Left wing extremism is a direct fallout of this skewed development. Govt. is already having special schemes for LWE districts, particularly among women. I wonder if they would need more such schemes in the aftermath of this decision.


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## KDroid (Sep 15, 2012)

The present incompetent Government brings this so-called 'reform' and the next government will get criticized for the unemployment, etc. With Money going out of India, someone please explain me how will it strengthen the economy. 

All of you are only concerned with Amazon coming to India. 

This policy will give short term benefits. Think about long-term. India is a big-big market and the MNCs are dead keen to grab it. 

I am not denying any of its benefits. Rupee will strengthen. But obvious. 

But it's too early to introduce FDI in India. 



Skud said:


> I wish I could give you a rep. Very few people understand the repercussions in a country like India and that too with politicians like these. Much have been said about 90s' economic reforms, but hardly a few percentage of the population have benefited from it. You and I being some of the beneficiaries is no consolation. Left wing extremism is a direct fallout of this skewed development. Govt. is already having special schemes for LWE districts, particularly among women. I wonder if they would need more such schemes in the aftermath of this decision.



Exactly.



theserpent said:


> I agree with you FDI is awesome
> why?
> amazon might(95%) enter india.
> It might end up buying expensivekartP flippy )
> ...



What on earth makes you think that Flipkart will sell itself?


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

^^you need to read more.i suggest TOI sunday "all that matters" articles especially by swaminathan aiyer(a brilliant economist/journalist who can tear through any so called leftist views about economy with such ease,if only common people could read him).

@skud,don't underestimate the 90's reform so much.if they weren't implemented we would be in not much better situation than pakistan today.again read swaminathan aiyer articles & you will understand the greatness of 90's reforms.i don't know if you know this but there is a reason why India's economic growth before 1991 economic reform is referred to as *"hindu rate of growth"*(google it & open your eyes).

now for all those people opposing reforms here is what i have to say.don't oppose a solution if you can not provide an alternative.here is a simple fact.the USSR(birth nation of communism)collapsed because of economy problems.*there never was & never will be a nation more communist in nature than USSR.if this nation couldn't survive on communism no nation can hope to survive on it either.*yes capitalism has its problems but still it works.also capitalism like anything else also depend on people implementing it so it is not capitalism fault but people/govt/regulators faults for most of the problems in capitalism.*whatever problems our nation is facing today is not because of capitalism but lack of it!!most of the biggest scams have occurred in mining/natural resources,real estate & power sector.do you know what is common in them?they all are regularized just like leftists wanted supposedly for the sake of people.these sectors are also the biggest factor of discontent in naxal affected areas so go figure out why the sectors which are still not capitalized are in such a mess while the areas which are capitalized to great degree(telecommunication) enables the local kaamwaali to have a mobile phone.*


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

Anorion said:


> lol. kingfisher got saved.




Who knows, may be that's the only reason behind all these.


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## KDroid (Sep 15, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> ^^you need to read more.i suggest TOI sunday "all that matters" articles especially by swaminathan aiyer(a brilliant economist/journalist who can tear through any so called leftist views about economy with such ease,if only common people could read him).
> 
> @skud,don't underestimate the 90's reform so much.if they weren't implemented we would be in not much better situation than pakistan today.again read swaminathan aiyer articles & you will understand the greatness of 90's reforms.i don't know if you know this but there is a reason why India's economic growth before 1991 economic reform is referred to as *"hindu rate of growth"*(google it & open your eyes).
> 
> now for all those people opposing reforms here is what i have to say.don't oppose a solution if you can not provide an alternative.here is a simple fact.the USSR(birth nation of communism)collapsed because of economy problems.*there never was & never will be a nation more communist in nature than USSR.if this nation couldn't survive on communism no nation can hope to survive on it either.*yes capitalism has its problems but still it works.also capitalism like anything else also depend on people implementing it so it is not capitalism fault but people/govt/regulators faults for most of the problems in capitalism.*whatever problems our nation is facing today is not because of capitalism but lack of it!!most of the biggest scams have occurred in mining/natural resources,real estate & power sector.do you know what is common in them?they all are regularized just like leftists wanted supposedly for the sake of people.these sectors are also the biggest factor of discontent in naxal affected areas so go figure out why the sectors which are still not capitalized are in such a mess while the areas which are capitalized to great degree(telecommunication) enables the local kaamwaali to have a mobile phone.*



Messy Post. Couldn't make half of what you're trying to convey. Don't let a single article shape your opinion. Applies for everyone (Me too). Read the article I posted.


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> ^^you need to read more.i suggest TOI sunday "all that matters" articles especially by swaminathan aiyer(a brilliant economist/journalist who can tear through any so called leftist views about economy with such ease,if only common people could read him).
> 
> @skud,don't underestimate the 90's reform so much.if they weren't implemented we would be in not much better situation than pakistan today.again read swaminathan aiyer articles & you will understand the greatness of 90's reforms.i don't know if you know this but there is a reason why India's economic growth before 1991 economic reform is referred to as *"hindu rate of growth"*(google it & open your eyes).
> 
> now for all those people opposing reforms here is what i have to say.don't oppose a solution if you can not provide an alternative.here is a simple fact.the USSR(birth nation of communism)collapsed because of economy problems.*there never was & never will be a nation more communist in nature than USSR.if this nation couldn't survive on communism no nation can hope to survive on it either.*yes capitalism has its problems but still it works.also capitalism like anything else also depend on people implementing it so it is not capitalism fault but people/govt/regulators faults for most of the problems in capitalism.*whatever problems our nation is facing today is not because of capitalism but lack of it!!most of the biggest scams have occurred in mining/natural resources,real estate & power sector.do you know what is common in them?they all are regularized just like leftists wanted supposedly for the sake of people.these sectors are also the biggest factor of discontent in naxal affected areas so go figure out why the sectors which are still not capitalized are in such a mess while the areas which are capitalized to great degree(telecommunication) enables the local kaamwaali to have a mobile phone.*




Just answer these:-



> these sectors are also the biggest factor of discontent in naxal affected areas


1) Why the resource poor districts in Bihar & WB are the hotbed of naxals, despite not having these mining/natural resources,real estate & power sector etc. as you stated?




> most of the biggest scams have occurred in mining/natural resources,real estate & power sector.do you know what is common in them?they all are regularized


2) Why such a big scam occurred in telecommunication after all the capitalization? And previously also (during Sukhram's regime, if you can recall).


For example, check the history of banking in our country. It was a mess prior to nationalization. Then 90s reforms have helped the banking sector a lot. But in today's time, open entry of foreign banks will again lead to class banking instead of mass banking. Because it is still regularized, we are talking about financial inclusion and all. And despite general apathy from bankers it is happening, albeit slower. Then there's regional imbalances, what is possible in Southern states is simply not possible in Northern parts. Neither capitalism nor communism (or any other ism for that matter) is the solution of every problem. As you rightly stated, its the people who matters. And are they dependable? I guess all of us know the answer.

Oh, by the way, Greece was almost on verge of collapse after all the capitalism. Neither other European nations are doing very well. And lets not start talking about 2008 recession and all.

Read KDroid's post (post #18), you will get some insights.


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## funskar (Sep 15, 2012)

Skud said:


> Who knows, may be that's the only reason behind all these.



+1 .
malya can drink more beer n relax now


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

sorry @skud but i see no point in further arguing with you or @kdroid,please take this as constructive criticism.*i was there during 1991 reforms reading newspaper articles.*i knew as soon as i posted my previous post that you will mention 2g scam,sukhram,2008 recession & possibly greece.it just shows that you don't have enough material/subject knowledge to engage in debate with someone reading articles for over 20 years now from both leftist & right wings(your point about scam in telecommunication clearly show this,someone like me whether leftist/communist or right wing/capitalist would never raise this point because of its shaky foundation).my suggestion as i already said is start reading swaminathan aiyer articles in which you can find rational counter arguments to all your questions.even today leftist leader Sitaram Yechury raised a point about govt giving huge subsidies to pvt sector/industries whose answer completely proving it wrong was there in one of swaminathan aiyer's articles i read months ago!*there is a reason why economics is considered as a complex subject so arguing on economic issues is pretty pointless unless you have extensive knowledge or you have the necessary qualifications.you wouldn't engage in serious debate over pros & cons of gene targeting therapies vis-a-vis conventional treatments by reading a few articles over net for a few years claiming it to be useful/useless now,would you?*


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## dashing.sujay (Sep 15, 2012)

I would just say that this was probably not the right time to make the call. May be restructuring local market(or however you define it) could've helped much more.


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> sorry @skud but i see no point in further arguing with you or @kdroid,please take this as constructive criticism.*i was there during 1991 reforms reading newspaper articles.*i knew as soon as i posted my previous post that you will mention 2g scam,sukhram,2008 recession & possibly greece.it just shows that you don't have enough material/subject knowledge to engage in debate with someone reading articles for over 20 years now from both leftist & right wings(your point about scam in telecommunication clearly show this,someone like me whether leftist/communist or right wing/capitalist would never raise this point because of its shaky foundation).my suggestion as i already said is start reading swaminathan aiyer articles in which you can find rational counter arguments to all your questions.even today leftist leader Sitaram Yechury raised a point about govt giving huge subsidies to pvt sector/industries whose answer completely proving it wrong was there in one of swaminathan aiyer's articles i read months ago!*there is a reason why economics is considered as a complex subject so arguing on economic issues is pretty pointless unless you have extensive knowledge or you have the necessary qualifications.you wouldn't engage in serious debate over pros & cons of gene targeting therapies vis-a-vis conventional treatments by reading a few articles over net for a few years claiming it to be useful/useless now,would you?*




I hope you have the necessary qualifications, experience etc. so why don't you enlighten us about the questions raised instead of just referring to one person? Also I would personally like to know how our rural mass is going to be benefited by all this and whether that profit will be equal to or more than what foreign companies are gonna get.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 15, 2012)

walmart and amazon in Maharashtra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

@skud,i thought i made myself very clear when i said i am reading newspaper articles for over 20 years now.if that doesn't count as experience in your viewpoint i don't know what does.do you really think that i can convey my 20 years of experience to you even in 20 large posts?for starters read basic economy terms:inflation,money supply,capital account,current account,deficit financing etc.read these in context of india before & after 1991.read about india's banking sector ridiculously high SLR & CRR before 1991 & Narasimham Committee Report.read about the infamous "licensing raaj" before 1991 in which you have to pay penalty if your factory produce more efficiently resulting in more production than sanctioned!!(yes,that's right,penalty for increased efficiency).see some old serials/ask old relatives about the importance of getting a bsnl landline phone after 4-5 years of wait & inviting the entire neighbourhood for celebration.read about the marginal tax rates of 93.5% in early 70's for highest income group(that's right govt thought at that time that since we can't make poor rich why not make rich poor,if everyone is poor then no one will complain about rich)which gave rise to the almost parallel black money economy & income tax officers were considered as gods.read about the changing trend of tax collection & compare the percentage of personal income tax from early 80's to 2000.after you have done all this & still think leftist/govt management/FDI/investment/pvt sector is bad for then & only then engage in debate with someone like me.

if all the above sound too much here is a practical & simple example.left front ruled west bengal unchallenged for more than 20 years implementing nothing but leftist/communist policies supposedly for the sake of people & see where it is today.USSR collapsed & China after the great cultural revolution abandoned the mao's philosophy & started working on attracting FDI & initiating reforms under Deng Xiaoping & see where it is today.like i said discussing economic issues is not something you can seriously engage in with just a quick reading or even a few years of reading.economics does not work in vacuum but has to be seen along with political,social as well as legal system.whatever flaws are there in capitalism they are also present in socialism/communism & with much greater degree.


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## digit.sh (Sep 15, 2012)

Its not gonna help our poor people. *Kdroid*'s post says it all. But yes, we had to do it(allow FDI), if not today then at some point of time in near future. Now, the important thing is: _By aggreeing to open ourselve up, could we extract enough from them in return_?


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Sep 15, 2012)

Hmmm , FDI in retail ....... It would be easier for wal-mart to dump its  waste in a third world country like India , and because of  loopholes and  corruption it will be easier for wal-mart to get away after nuisances just like dow chemicals went away after bhopal gas tragedy


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## Skud (Sep 15, 2012)

You bet.


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 15, 2012)

KDroid said:


> Bit long but I request you all to go through it.
> 
> 
> Every line makes sense to me.
> ...



it is something what every firm in the US does ( major electronics retailers atleast) . many of you may have heard of the term "Dynamic pricing" is something what flipkart also does, when they see that a product is selling for a good price and is not avl in the open market easily, they jump the gun and charge extra. For example : A headphone has a MRP of say 1900 ruppes, in the open market suppose the cheapest price is 1500 then flipkart will sell the same thing for 1600 and then 1800.



digit.sh said:


> Its not gonna help our poor people. *Kdroid*'s post says it all. But yes, we had to do it(allow FDI), if not today then at some point of time in near future. Now, the important thing is: _By aggreeing to open ourselve up, could we extract enough from them in return_?



that will depend on how this proceeds, ultimately in another 20 years or so, MNC's will be handling all food production rather than local markets. 

But curiously, as i heard people mention "middlemen" . In India we have so much of already built up infrastructure and systems in place which can be used to immediately boost the economy, yet they are being continiously abused by the middlemen and the babus. 

We have motherdairy - a source for most of the food products likes fruits and vegetables, even milk products. 

we have the PDS - Public Distribtution Sytem. 

Why do we need Walmart and costco to do our retailing?

We can effectively remove the middlemen and cleanse the system, inviting fdi multibrand retail will only wreck havok with the current political scenario and eventually lead to the death of manufacturing and production in India. The government has to protect the local economy?  Or soon we will end up where America was a year ago, but just worse.


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

> We can effectively remove the middlemen and cleanse the system,*inviting fdi multibrand retail will only wreck havok with the current political scenario and eventually lead to the death of manufacturing and production in India.* The government has to protect the local economy? Or soon we will end up where America was a year ago, but just worse.


 says the guy who post arguments in support of legality of downloading from internet.since i already assessed your intellectual level from your reply to my last post in that anti-piracy thread i won't even bother to prove how pathetic sounding your argument is.*remind me of the hyper "East India Company is coming again" statements i used to read in paper just after 1991 economic reforms.*here is a free piece of advice from someone far more experienced & knowledgeable than you:don't open your mouth in front of people like me in real life or else whatever impression you may have will be spoiled.


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## d6bmg (Sep 15, 2012)

@ NoasArcAngel: You still live in the world of your dream mate?


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## dashing.sujay (Sep 15, 2012)

NoasArcAngel said:


> We have motherdairy - a source for most of the food products likes fruits and vegetables, even milk products.
> 
> we have the PDS - Public Distribtution Sytem.



Do you even know the reality of PDS in India? IT DOESN'T EXISTS.


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 15, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> says the guy who post arguments in support of legality of downloading from internet.since i already assessed your intellectual level from your reply to my last post in that anti-piracy thread i won't even bother to prove how pathetic sounding your argument is.*remind me of the hyper "East India Company is coming again" statements i used to read in paper just after 1991 economic reforms.*here is a free piece of advice from someone far more experienced & knowledgeable than you:don't open your mouth in front of people like me in real life or else whatever impression you may have will be spoiled.



i do not support that downloading copyrighted media via torrents is legal. i just said that since the laws are lax and not strict one can avoid any punishment for downloading copyrighted material from the internet. 

Choose your words carefully next time. 

Secondly if you seem so competent why dont you try to provide your "superior intellectual insight" and tell me what i meant by my statement and this time please try to reduce the melodrama



dashing.sujay said:


> Do you even know the reality of PDS in India? IT DOESN'T EXISTS.



That is what i already mentioned, that we have the infra but because of the blatant abuse of the system all that money is going down the drain.


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

@ NoasArcAngel,read this.*this is my reply to everyone & not just you who wishes to engage in a serious debate with me regarding FDI/economic issues.*
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/random-ne...rand-retail-100-single-brand.html#post1750149


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 15, 2012)

and since none of the monkeys on this forum ( who by the way just learned how to type and by coincidence know how to speak english ) carefully read by what i meant. let me elaborate: 

Firstly : How will the Multi-brand FDI affect the Food distribution system ? 
This is the topic of prime concern, because almost all other increase in prices have secondary effects . Like when fuel costs increase so does the cost of perishable goods, electricity and all such commodities. When Multi-brand FDI is put in place in India, You may assume that most of the food will likely be bought from Indian farmers and sold, However that is not the case. The increase in the food intake per capita will start increasing once the prices start coming down and no there will be no shortage of food, but a good drought can certainly change things. In the past India has been importing pulses from countries like Australia. Indian lands are not so fertile which adds to the problem, so the food production value keeps on going down per unit area, as a result to obtain the same amount of yield you need to keep on working on a bigger area. Drought conditions in many areas / or untimely monsoon also adds to the woes. 

The second problem is the distribution and storage of food, whatever FDI invests in india will not be setting up their own Storage hubs, and most of the grains and pulses are stored in the Government granaries. TBH these are not very well maintained and as a result of which millions of tonnes of grain is rotting every year lying idle simply because there is no one who can transport it. 

FDI will help in increasing the efficiency of the food distribution system, and reducing the prices by cutting out the middle-men, but the problem is how long will the system be able to handle this? Because again we will have farmers going up in arms against the FDI for giving them a lower margin of profit.



As a result of this India may not be producing self sufficient food, and in the coming time we may require to import most of our food.

Secondly as we all know that the current situation of the government and even the politicians is not good. I agree there are a few people in the government ( and no i am not referring to the prime minister ) who are doing good work and even some MLAs and netas. But they are not doing enough and their support is very little. The cogs of the indian bureaucracy are so tangled that it is like someone took a large needle spindle and tangled everyone in. It is not so simple as people think, India was a collabration of states and there are many different ideologies so it is very very difficult to maintain the balance of power and still get the work done.


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## ico (Sep 15, 2012)

Indian culture is to blame.


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 15, 2012)

The topographical condition of India again is of no help, because of the rains many areas are flood prone which adds to the problem .

Why death of manufacturing and production : This Statement was made solely in terms of food and not anything else. My bad.

But again analyzing this situation here, production of goods and manufacturing will come to and end if the current scenario does not change. 

Food prices are at an all time high, so are the rates of electricity, wages have not increased much, fuels are getting more expensive by the day. Its hard to imagine how will life be in some days from now.



ico said:


> Indian culture is to blame.



everyone is running for power and money. No one wants to take a look at the system and work for the people. Yesterday i had a discussion with someone who works very closely with industries and he told me how, when the coal allocation was to be made someone went to met a neta and he asked for a 60 crore bribe . When the company refused to pay, their allocation was reduced by 25%



whitestar_999 said:


> says the guy who post arguments in support of legality of downloading from internet.since i already assessed your intellectual level from your reply to my last post in that anti-piracy thread i won't even bother to prove how pathetic sounding your argument is.*remind me of the hyper "East India Company is coming again" statements i used to read in paper just after 1991 economic reforms.*here is a free piece of advice from someone far more experienced & knowledgeable than you:don't open your mouth in front of people like me in real life or else whatever impression you may have will be spoiled.



And no i am not being pessimistic, i would warmly welcome FDI into the country, but what irkes me is that our country has so much potential, all we need is good governance yet we end up wasting the time of the parliament on stupid decisions like allowing the multibrand FDI retail to enter India

And not that the goons sitting in the parliament are much more capable than i or you. Its the sad times.



whitestar_999 said:


> @ NoasArcAngel,read this.*this is my reply to everyone & not just you who wishes to engage in a serious debate with me regarding FDI/economic issues.*
> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/random-ne...rand-retail-100-single-brand.html#post1750149



i am pretty sure you are not an economist and neither am i, even if you read the papers knowing things like the back of your hand is something different and knowing about them is something different. So please lets just cut out the crap and talk like laymen.

and you mentioned a parallel black economy, you know it even runs know . You just dont read about it in the newspapers anymore 

AHAHAHHAHAHA private sector, seriously man get a life. If i start spilling beans about how private sector companies work, you will be ashamed you even made that statement.

You want to talk about private companies : take a look at Satyam and Maytas.

Look at all the banking scams that have taken place : money being removed from customers accounts in citibank. And HSBC : LAUNDERING HAWALA MONEY.

I DONT SUPPORT COMMUNISM, but at the same time i dont believe in capitalism also. A balance is required and thats about it.



d6bmg said:


> @ NoasArcAngel: You still live in the world of your dream mate?



yea man, i have a few servants a nice swanky house in posh area of delhi and life is good. No complaints.

For starters, why dont you take a look at how the reality sector in India boomed around 1980's? How come prices in Mumbai and New york are the same or Mumbai being more expensive ? even when the living conditions here are worse than New York?

You want more? take a look at how the private banks all laundered money and carried out international money transfer for all the mafia of Mumbai. ?

There are many companies LISTED ON THE BSE : which are the fronts for the major money laundering and rackerteering operations for the organized crime syndicate. Why has no action been taken against them ? Why did you forget all this ? why dont your papers report this? why dont your papers report the nexus between the diamon merchants in mumbai and the mafia cartel ? Why dont your papers report the mysterious cash lying the in the stock market ... and who owns it? Why dont your papers report how people bring the black money and convert it to white by floating companies?

Why dont your papers report the shrewd nature of the business persons, who run multi-crore industries in punjab and ludhiana but dont pay the tax they have to ? Why doesnt your paper report about its owner? Vineet Jain - I believe MD of the Times Of India Group.

Why dont your papers report how gold is smuggled via landing ports in India in Gujarat and sold off to convert black money to white money ? There are firms specially for this purpose.


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 15, 2012)

Like when fuel costs increase so does the cost of perishable goods, electricity and all such commodities.& when not fiscal deficit increase which in turn makes raising money for pvt sector costlier resulting in manufacturing production slow down as evident in IIP index touching negative for the first time in recent times not to mention it results in inflation which affects everybody much more severely.it is also common sense that is never pays to spend more than you earn in long run whether it is an individual or govt.

You may assume that most of the food will likely be bought from Indian farmers and sold, However that is not the case.sure!walmart is going to import arhar daal from USA in a ship with month long waiting time & all the other related expenses so it can sold it here at same rate as a local farmer.

Indian lands are not so fertile which adds to the problem,didn't knew that you did some research in this area from G. B. Pant University of Agriculture and Technology.here read this(especially how even Bangladesh is better in using tractors for increased productivity) & never raise this point again.
Home : Press Releases

whatever FDI invests in india will not be setting up their own Storage hubs, and most of the grains and pulses are stored in the Government granaries.read some material on how reliance fresh stores work to understand why your statement is completely false.

Because again we will have farmers going up in arms against the FDI for giving them a lower margin of profit.you mean even lower(read nothing) than what they are getting now from middleman.



> i am pretty sure you are not an economist and neither am i, even if you read the papers knowing things like the back of your hand is something different and knowing about them is something different.


& so does a person who knows things like the back of his hand(me) & the one who knows little/nothing(you).



> AHAHAHHAHAHA private sector, seriously man get a life. If i start spilling beans about how private sector companies work, you will be ashamed you even made that statement.


i am living a good life,kid.this discussion is over from my end since i don't consider it neither appropriate nor worthy enough to argue with someone like you who doesn't even possess a fraction of my knowledge.good bye,kid.


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 16, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> Like when fuel costs increase so does the cost of perishable goods, electricity and all such commodities.& when not fiscal deficit increase which in turn makes raising money for pvt sector costlier resulting in manufacturing production slow down as evident in IIP index touching negative for the first time in recent times not to mention it results in inflation which affects everybody much more severely.it is also common sense that is never pays to spend more than you earn in long run whether it is an individual or govt.
> 
> You may assume that most of the food will likely be bought from Indian farmers and sold, However that is not the case.sure!walmart is going to import arhar daal from USA in a ship with month long waiting time & all the other related expenses so it can sold it here at same rate as a local farmer.
> 
> ...



uncle 
then why are you afraid to reply to my questions? if you know so much shed light on them . Also please enlighten everyone here about Harshad Mehta.



whitestar_999 said:


> Like when fuel costs increase so does the cost of perishable goods, electricity and all such commodities.& when not fiscal deficit increase which in turn makes raising money for pvt sector costlier resulting in manufacturing production slow down as evident in IIP index touching negative for the first time in recent times not to mention it results in inflation which affects everybody much more severely.it is also common sense that is never pays to spend more than you earn in long run whether it is an individual or govt.
> 
> You may assume that most of the food will likely be bought from Indian farmers and sold, However that is not the case.sure!walmart is going to import arhar daal from USA in a ship with month long waiting time & all the other related expenses so it can sold it here at same rate as a local farmer.
> 
> ...




i just want to add 1 thing: he who thinks he knows the most : knows little, and he who who thinks know littles knows the most. So rest your theory.

pulses have been imported in the past, and they will be imported in the future. 

*www.commodityonline.com/news/india...uch-8-million-tons-by-2020-44705-3-44706.html

clearly you have no head i can see that, as most of your replies are brainless. sorry i wasted your time.

and i never did the research from any university, its clearly mentioned in the class 8 geography book. the amount of arable land .

Oh and it also mentions here clearly : 



> After launch, in a dramatic shift in its positioning and mainly due to the circumstances prevailing in UP, West Bengal and Orissa, it was mentioned recently[when?] in news dailies that Reliance Retail is moving out of stocking fruits and vegetables[citation needed]. Reliance Retail has decided to minimise its exposure in the fruit and vegetable business.
> The company may not stock fruit and vegetables in some states. Though Reliance Fresh is not exiting the fruit and vegetable business altogether, it has decided not to compete with local vendors partly due to political reasons, and partly due to its inability to create a robust supply chain. This is quite different from what the firm had originally planned.
> When the first Reliance Fresh store opened in Hyderabad last October[citation needed], not only did the company say the store’s main focus would be fresh produce like fruits and vegetables at a much lower price, but also spoke at length about its “farm-to-fork" theory[citation needed]. The idea the company spoke about was to source from farmers and sell directly to the consumer, removing middlemen out of the way.



SO i guess reliance was not that successfull after all ...

And read here : *www.ipga.co.in/index.html

*www.ipga.co.in/uploads/7/9/4/9/7949862/import_data_2011.pdf

@whitestar_999 i dont know your age, but i will call you uncle. And i am really really really sorry for wasting your time. I sincerely do hope you read my reply.

*post.jagran.com/fdi-in-retail-a-big-danger-against-national-interest-arun-jaitley-1347725268



> hennai: BJP on Saturday said implementation of FDI in multi-brand retail will make India a nation of "sales boys and sales girls" and it hoped to see the end of the UPA government on the issue.
> 
> Leader of the Opposition in the Rajya Sabha, Arun Jaitley, said the biggest danger of allowing FDI in Indian markets was not just the threat posed to retail and services sectors but the danger faced by the manufacturing sector.
> 
> ...




Arun jaitley is a graduate of commerce from SRCC DU.


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## KDroid (Sep 16, 2012)

@whitestar

 Instead of giving logical answer to queries raised by members, you are just bragging about your knowledge. This is not how forums work. FFS, we're not here to brag about our knowledge. We're here to have normal discussions or constructive arguments which you're not capable of doing apparently. No one gives a damn if you've read 10000 articles or whatsoever. What matters here are logical arguments. If you cannot put logical arguments than your knowledge is of no use or does not exist. And you are better off bragging about your non-existent knowledge to your colleagues/family/friends. Good Luck.


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## d6bmg (Sep 16, 2012)

ico said:


> Indian culture is to blame.



Nothing to do with culture, but the situation is made up by the politicians only.


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## KDroid (Sep 16, 2012)

^^ Where did the politicians come from?


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## d6bmg (Sep 16, 2012)

KDroid said:


> ^^ Where did the politicians come from?



Got your point. If 'Indian culture' affects everyone, then none of us have the intellect to discuss anything here.
IMO, it's the mindset of some group of people (i.e. politicians), which is affecting and aggravating the issue.


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## KDroid (Sep 16, 2012)

It does not affect everyone. We've some good politicians too. We elected the bad politicians. They set a bad example. Good people fear to enter politics. These politicians' sons and daughters take over them and it goes on. We're all just waiting for some revolutionary politician to come and revolutionize everything.


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## Skud (Sep 16, 2012)

We need to elect, not wait.


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## d6bmg (Sep 16, 2012)

Skud said:


> We need to elect, not wait.



We? Those who get majority of vote, win. Here, majority of people are either socially or totally illiterate. So..


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## Skud (Sep 16, 2012)

The largest population in the country is middle-class, but mostly it has lesser impact on polls because of its fragmented nature. Just take this thread as an example.  Now, whose fault is that?


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## gameranand (Sep 16, 2012)

Its just too early to implement in India thats all from me.


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## whitestar_999 (Sep 17, 2012)

KDroid said:


> @whitestar
> 
> Instead of giving logical answer to queries raised by members, you are just bragging about your knowledge. This is not how forums work. FFS, we're not here to brag about our knowledge. We're here to have normal discussions or constructive arguments which you're not capable of doing apparently. No one gives a damn if you've read 10000 articles or whatsoever. What matters here are logical arguments. If you cannot put logical arguments than your knowledge is of no use or does not exist. And you are better off bragging about your non-existent knowledge to your colleagues/family/friends. Good Luck.


i don't need to prove anything here online because in real life everyone i know acknowledges my knowledge & that is what matters to me not like many from current generation who measure their worth by their online presence.you don't engage in logical debate over theory of relativity with class 8 student who just read H.G. Wells Time Machine & saw terminator.what's the point in giving you logical arguments if they get over your head?*read post#30 by me* in this thread to get an idea about my level & your level.this section is not for debate but merely information & comments on random news.*instead of copy pasting articles from net first read all the basic terms of economics & their historical context with respect to india along with rise & fall of communism in USSR & context & aftermath of China's great cultural revolution & only then engage in debate with someone like me.*if you can't do that then simply say that you don't support FDI in retail using simple arguments which you can find in any leftist/opposition parties leaders speeches.don't use randomly collected half baked knowledge to give arguments trying to support your claim with a showing that you have good grasp on the subject.leave serious debate on such issues to people like us.i will be more than pleased to engage in debate with such a person.just like other person before you this is the end of discussion from my side with you.good bye


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## abhinavmail1 (Sep 17, 2012)

I am Waiting for newegg .


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## asingh (Sep 17, 2012)

Waiting for the next 1.xxx L crore scam, which will be an offshoot of all this. Maybe we should see it in the next 4-5 years. 

I agree with Ico, though.


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## NoasArcAngel (Sep 17, 2012)

whitestar_999 said:


> i don't need to prove anything here online because in real life everyone i know acknowledges my knowledge & that is what matters to me not like many from current generation who measure their worth by their online presence.you don't engage in logical debate over theory of relativity with class 8 student who just read H.G. Wells Time Machine & saw terminator.what's the point in giving you logical arguments if they get over your head?*read post#30 by me* in this thread to get an idea about my level & your level.this section is not for debate but merely information & comments on random news.*instead of copy pasting articles from net first read all the basic terms of economics & their historical context with respect to india along with rise & fall of communism in USSR & context & aftermath of China's great cultural revolution & only then engage in debate with someone like me.*if you can't do that then simply say that you don't support FDI in retail using simple arguments which you can find in any leftist/opposition parties leaders speeches.don't use randomly collected half baked knowledge to give arguments trying to support your claim with a showing that you have good grasp on the subject.leave serious debate on such issues to people like us.i will be more than pleased to engage in debate with such a person.just like other person before you this is the end of discussion from my side with you.good bye



the fact that you are replying again and again to protect your reputation and posting obscure replies as reasons only shows your level of integrity and mental maturity. oh and by the way you should try visiting this website :



Spoiler



IAMTHEGREATEST.COM



even if a 8 year old kid read time machine and watched terminator, you can never do a logical argument about time-travel because nor you, nor the kid has enough knowledge about that topic.

infact you can only and always have a conclusive and constructive arguements about facts.


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## Anorion (Sep 17, 2012)

omg this argument also has boiled down to who is more mature
stop


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