# Has PC gaming become pointless?



## ring_wraith (Oct 16, 2007)

Has it? 

Every two months there is a brand new piece of hardware that is released without which it is not possible to play games with all their glory. 

For Example, i spent around 27,000 on a system with a core 2 duo E6550 and nVidia 8600 GT. And now, less than a month later i find it impossible to play the latest games at even mildly high settings with my PC. I will eventually be forced to upgrade to a penryn and series 9 GPU, costing me another bomb. 

I feel like an idiot now, when i realize that i got have go an Xbox 360 premium for as low as Rs. 20,000. This would surely play every game for the next two years atleast at blistering frame rates, even if they don't look as good as their PC counterparts. But atleast i am assured that whatevet game i pick up for my console will work. Period. 

Mordern consoles are really pushing hardware to the limit. And the Xbox 360 and particularly the PS3 are far more powerful than most systems out there that cost 4-5 times as much, and the resolution of games they output is no longer a crappy 640x480, its full glorious HD. And lets admit it , it is definetly more fun playing action, racing and adventure games with a remote control as compared to the keyboard. Sure RTSs and FPSs need a mouse and kb, but the PS3 does support them, and I am willing to bet that the Xbox 360 soon will.And they no longer keep you away from your music. The Xbox 360 and the PS3 have fantastic Media Center Capabilities. And both allow you to replace in game music with your music. And considering that both have good capacity hard disks even those with very large music collections will not be disappointed.   

Also, there is the obvious advantage of not having to stick to your crappy 19" monitor and cheap 2.0 speakers and being able to enjoy a game on a massive TV with your 5.1 surround sound home theater. Of course, you might be among those exceptional few who have a 5.1 speaker set and a 23" monitor on your desks. But almost everyone has a 31" CTV at the very least. 

The most shocking part is that game developers are gradually moving to consoles. More and more console games are being released that are not available for PC. And the number of games that are PC-exclusive are decreasing as games developers are embracing consoles. A shining example would be UT3, which is the first UT ever slated to be released on a console and PC simultaneously. 

Also, i'm sure most gamers will agree that they spend almost equal amounts of time optimising their PCs and playing games. When you buy a console, you know that it's already optimised and whatever games you buy will be optimised for that console. So you can actually get down to playing some games without having to bother about how many FPS you are getting, because with a console you know that number will always be 60 FPS.

I am by no means a PC-hater or console  Fanboy. I enjoy gaming on PCs ,  but am forced to say that it has indeed become a meaningless way to game.


----------



## quadroplex780 (Oct 16, 2007)

Just one thing-


> After the game was released, speculations arose that Halo 3 did not natively render at true HD resolution (at least 720 lines of vertical resolution).In a Bungie Weekly Update, it was confirmed that the game was rendered at 1152×640 resolution instead of the usual 1280×720 (HD) resolution that most Xbox 360 games use.The choice for this design was conscious on Bungie's part, due to the fact that Halo 3 uses two frame buffers instead of the usual one, and that this choice would allow Bungie to preserve as much as the dynamic range as possible for the game's lighting, as well as maintaining a smooth frame rate. The picture could be upscaled all the way up to 1080p by the Xbox 360.


Source- en.Wikipedia.org


----------



## infra_red_dude (Oct 16, 2007)

Its always a trade off between being on the edge in the latest and the greatest and playing stable, more titles, albeit at a lower resolution.

I'd always prefer a gaming console over PC anyday. Why spend so much on PC? Then hunt for performance updates and drivers, deal with overheating issues, experiment with settings, many of which may lead to crashes. This is a never ending process. If you keep doing this over and over again trying to squeeze in every drop of performance then when will you actually play the game??!!!

For me the best buy would be a system which can handle any stable OS with its full eyecandy (Aero in Vista and Compiz-Fusion in GNU/Linux), coupled with a gaming console. Works out to be much much much cheaper and stable!


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 16, 2007)

@quadroplex780 its still significantly higher than 640x480. And probably as high or higher than whatever resolution most gamers with mid end PCs play at.

and infra red dude, i totally agree. That is the path i am planning to follow. My current PC can handle vista in all its glory. Instead of my next upgrade i am gettng myself an Xbox 360 mainly because its cheaper than the PS3, there are a lot more must-have games (eg. Bioshock, Halo 3, Gears  of War) , and the games are a lot cheaper, if you know what i'm talking about


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Oct 16, 2007)

@quadroplex780 , dude if you did not read the post on Bungie's site , they have explicitly stated that Halo 3 Renders at a lower resolution internally and that is on Two frame buffers , that is two frames are being rendered and then these two frames are combined to form a single frame which is then output to the TV . thus Halo 3 is actually rendering a lot more than a single 1280 x 720 frame .

@infra_red_dude , yups i Too agree with you . That's why i have an Xbox 360 purely for gaming and the PC for other stuff .

Also , the Graphics quality of what the Current Gen Consoles output is much much better than what Most 90% PC's can do .

Plus , the most important thing in the games is gameplay not just graphics ,which you get only on a console .

Also , The XBOX 360 supports Keyboards , coz i myself plug-in a USB keyboard into my 360 and use it .

@ring_wraith , dude Xbox 360 Classics and Platinum Hits cost Rs 999 , that's a reasonable price to pay for a game . I bought my Console from an Official dealer and haven't modded it till now and don't plan to mod it .


----------



## desiibond (Oct 16, 2007)

I have a PS2, mid-range PC and I am happy with the gameplay etc. Maybe, next year, I may consider PS3 (only due to Gran Turismo and F1 racing)


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 16, 2007)

@ zeeshan I meant that after you mod it , like PS2s games cost very less... as they are pirated...... but even the non pirated ones cost quite a bit less. 

The x360 supports kbs for messaging etc... not for gaming. [does it?] the ps3 actually will use a mouse and kb in games like UT3 where it is necessary.


----------



## $$Gururaj$$ (Oct 16, 2007)

but counter strike IS counterstrike.. nothing can replace PC gaming


----------



## superczar (Oct 16, 2007)

From my POV, PC gaming has been pointless for ages now

I had fallen in the scenario B hell for a brief period approx 2 years ago....
came out of it in a month, and have stuck to scenario A ever since


*Scenario A: *A nice Saturday evening, a console (any console, even a PS2), throw in a decent game, a bunch of PIzzas, a crate if beer, a couple of beanbags and a bunch of friends....
Everyone stays up till 5 AM and has a great time

*Scenario B: *7:00 PM on A nice saturday evening, a high end PC with a Sixteen core CPU and a 19000XTX and 64 Gig of ram and the latest game title and 2 PC gaming fanatics

8:00 PM: Sweet, games installed, time to frag

8:15 PM: Oh wait, doesn't the framerate feel a bit laggy...let me go install fraps and keep an eye on the frame rates

8:30 PM: Oh no, FRAPS tells me my framerate stutters to 20fps during heavy rendering..let me google for this issue

9:00: Hmm, seems like the beta forceware 210.1 rivers on guru 3d fix this problem..lemme dowload that

10:00 PM: ah, beta drivers installed, now where is that 3d mark benchmark

10:30 PM: Oh now, I get only 15000 3dmark points on my uber GPU while Tommmy/Dicky/Harrys' rig on that elite forum gets 19000 points despite a lower config... now where is that registry tweaking guide.. let's google for that

11:00 PM: Hmm, modified HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE_GPU_BLAHBLAHBLAH to x, all set and done... lets fire 3dmark again

11:30: Cool, now I get 19100 points...wait till I post in on the forums and see Tommy turning green 

12:00: ah, my uber cool 19100 points Posted..now where is that game we were trying to play

12:30 PM: Oh no, now the screen keeps crashing/game keeps core-dumping
Let's switch back to the original drivers and try OC this b^tch

1:30 AM: Awesome, I managed a 15% Overclock....and a 19250 3d mark score....awesome, just awesome!!!
let's post this on the forums again

2:00 AM...Hahaha, now that poor Tommy will be completely swallowed by the green monster...time to fire up the game again

2:30: Yeeshhh...what are those artifacts on the screen...maybe I need to reduce the OC before I fry out my GPU

3:00 AM: ugh...WTH...After the OC reduction, I get just 18500 points on 3dmark.....

must tweak the registry.....
must change the driver again....
must run those benchmarks again....
maybe I should order that water cooling kit...
maybe I should do a clean windows install.....YESSSS, that should work!!

6:00 AM..WIndows reinstall done...Yawn..must sleep...will try the game again tonight.....

And the cycle continues..........


----------



## too_techy (Oct 16, 2007)

yes pc games are increasing becoming pointless, the most obivious reason is the user friendliness of the consoles, but also the fact that consoles are backed by major companies like MS and Sony while PC games are not. I wouldn't be surprised if Pc games altogether vanishes in the next 5 to 10 years.


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 17, 2007)

superczar, that was brilliant man. I'm in scenario B right now.....

If anyone needs another example , now i wanna play lost planet EC after reading a review very badly. Since I have a PC with just 1 gig of RAM i will have to go out and buy another gig just to make it playable at medium settings, and even then i will enjoy it only at medium on a pathetic 17" monitor and horrible 2.0 speakers that i have. 

If i had an X360, go out, buy CD, come home, game on 32" TV, home theater setup.


----------



## gxsaurav (Oct 17, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> For Example, i spent around 27,000 on a system with a core 2 duo E6550 and nVidia 8600 GT. And now, less than a month later i find it impossible to play the latest games at even mildly high settings with my PC. I will eventually be forced to upgrade to a penryn and series 9 GPU, costing me another bomb.


 
No u don't, whats your monitor size? Did u tried optimizing the game manually? Install latest drivers & games updates etc, disable background apps...the usual thing. If your monitor is 17" then why do u play at anything over 1024X768 with 2XQ AA & 4X Anis.


> This would surely play every game for the next two years at least at blistering frame rates, even if they don't look as good as their PC counterparts.


 
XBOX 360 games look as good or better then DirectX 9/10 games, besides u can play on them for 5 years to come at least. *Consoles are always better for gaming then PCs*


----------



## desiibond (Oct 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> XBOX 360 games look as good or better then DirectX 9/10 games, besides u can play on them for 5 years to come at least. *Consoles are always better for gaming then PCs*


 
Yep. Put 20k-30k on a high end console and play safe for 3 years atleast. 

PC's: you need to buy a new add-on or upgrade every year.


----------



## gxsaurav (Oct 17, 2007)

But keep in mind PCs do lots more...

My recommendation, get a Laptop or cheap desktop according to your requirement, Desktop shouldn't go for more then 30 k with LCD Monitor included, & with that get a XBOX 360/PS3/Wiiiiiiiiii


----------



## rohan (Oct 17, 2007)

no way.. FPS are still way more enjoyable on a PC rather than on a console..
the only factor is that well.. although a high-end PC today has muscle equivalent to the PS3 or the XBOX360, 1 year from now.. it will be obsolete thanks to an awesome new game.. which however would run perfectly on the same XBOX360.


----------



## xbonez (Oct 17, 2007)

i always maintained tht playing FPS on a console is a pain in the a&& but then the consoles now support USB mice and keyboards, so there goes my last argument  now even i agree consoles are better than PCs


----------



## infra_red_dude (Oct 17, 2007)

rohan said:
			
		

> 1 year from now.. it will be obsolete....


1 year??!!! I thot the cycle finishes in under 4 months! 

Thing is the PC is made up of many components which complement one another. Everything mebbe fine but suddenly you may fall short of RAM. You upgrade, then you realise that the bandwidth is being bottlenecked by the chipset. You upgrade the mobo, then you realise that the new mobo doesn't support your current proc. You upgrade that too. Then you realise admist all this you forgot to upgrade an important componet, the GFX card and the cycle continues. In between you keep trying tweaking the settings, then install some patches, drivers, hack into registry, deal with crashes and a lot more!!!

A combination of a Laptop + a gaming console is best for today's world, imho.


----------



## gxsaurav (Oct 17, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> A combination of a Laptop + a gaming console is best for today's world, imho.


 
Nah...tablet PCs are the way to go. Nothing is better then to write on a computer in your own handwriting instead of typing


----------



## Third Eye (Oct 17, 2007)

desiibond said:
			
		

> Yep. Put 20k-30k on a high end console and play safe for *3* years atleast.



Make it 10.


----------



## rohan (Oct 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nah...tablet PCs are the way to go. Nothing is better then to write on a computer in your own handwriting instead of typing



again d00d... u r so not a geek.


----------



## desiibond (Oct 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nah...tablet PCs are the way to go. Nothing is better then to write on a computer in your own handwriting instead of typing


 
I prefer typing to handwriting. I can easily type 60wpm and belive me, my handwriting sucks so much that only the best handwriting recoginition sw can guess what I wrote


----------



## gxsaurav (Oct 17, 2007)

^^^^ lolz....I m good at drawing on paper & computer so I guess that helps when i write on paper



> again d00d... u r so not a geek.



Yup, no longer a geek. Just a user who wants to use his computer as a tool for doing things, & not for staring & screwing it....


----------



## desiibond (Oct 17, 2007)

ax3 said:
			
		

> ya, its no use upgrading & wasting ur money ........
> 
> xbox & ps3 r the only great options 2 experience AWESOME graphics ........


 
Have you tried playing on xbox 360/PS3. Atleast, try playing on PS2 and you will never regret owning a console. It's so smooth with amazing graphics.


----------



## baccilus (Oct 17, 2007)

If only they let us use keyboard and mouse for FPS games, it will be perfect to own a console and no one will buy a PC for gaming. I know PS3 is already doing that but others aren't.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Oct 17, 2007)

well there is yet another reason most parents wont allow their children to buy a 25k ps3 but will readily give 50-60k for a PC even if they know it will be primarily used for gaming.


----------



## xbonez (Oct 17, 2007)

^^thats xactly why i don't own a console. when u buy a pc, parents don't think that i'll be gaming (which i obviously do later). and it gives parents satisfaction in buying a PC b'coz they think it can be used for edu purposes too (which it generally isn't). however, buying a console, they know it'll be used only for gaming


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 17, 2007)

Totally agreed. For some reason parents assume that we are going to fill up our hard disks with encyclopedias and read them instead of filling em up with games and play them. 

and....



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> No u don't, whats your monitor size? Did u tried optimizing the game manually? Install latest drivers & games updates etc, disable background apps...the usual thing. If your monitor is 17" then why do u play at anything over 1024X768 with 2XQ AA & 4X Anis.



please tell me that was sarcasm.... coz if its not.. this is what the entire thread is about..... you can spend hours and hours optimising that game and still you will not get the same experience as on a console. 

If it was sarcasm... niice!

and funny thing ... poll is going other way than thread... 

impulsive voting i guess.


----------



## QwertyManiac (Oct 17, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> please tell me that was *sarcasm*....


In time you'll learn that among the things the guy you quoted might not know, this one is for sure.


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 18, 2007)

ouch.


----------



## ratedrsuperstar (Oct 18, 2007)

games aren't made xclusively for pc's anymore todays games come under 3 categories xbox360/ps3;pc;wii.

just saw game on star sports and it's amazing the amount of diff. in fifa 08 on consoles and my pc.if only our parents could understand that


----------



## supernova (Oct 18, 2007)

Offtopic: Can anyone tell me, is it worth spendin loads of extra bucks and going in for Xbox... or a PS2 will just be sufficient??


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 18, 2007)

Xbox 360 is definetly worth it.... almost all future games will be released for X360/PS3. PS2 will soon become outdated like the PS1. 

Besides, Xbox can play all your music, videos etc...


----------



## cynosure (Oct 22, 2007)

PC gaming cant be pointless. I purchased a new PC 3 weeks back.


----------



## krazyfrog (Oct 24, 2007)

Well in my not-so-humble-opinion, PC gaming has always been pointless. Consoles were designed for gaming and thats why they rock so much. Gaming should always be on a console, the way God (and Sony) intended.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Oct 24, 2007)

supernova said:
			
		

> Offtopic: Can anyone tell me, is it worth spendin loads of extra bucks and going in for Xbox... or a PS2 will just be sufficient??


Yups , go for an Xbox 360 . I personally own a 360 and enjoy every moment of gaming on it . Also Graphics and especially 'Phyisics' difference in Xbox 360 n PS2 games is HUUUUGE . Just lpay Burnout Revenge on PS2 n then on 360 to feel the difference .


----------



## Cyclone (Oct 25, 2007)

Well, you're all right, ofcourse, but since I play RTS's and Simulators, I think I'll be sticking to the PC for some time now. Just waiting for my parents permission to pick up a laptop, then its gonna be Silent Hunter 3, Freelancer, Homeworld 2 and Descent: Freespace 2 all semester long!!! <rubs hands together gleefully>


----------



## supernova (Oct 25, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Yups , go for an Xbox 360 . I personally own a 360 and enjoy every moment of gaming on it . Also Graphics and especially 'Phyisics' difference in Xbox 360 n PS2 games is HUUUUGE . Just lpay Burnout Revenge on PS2 n then on 360 to feel the difference .



Thanks zeeshan and ring..

But PS2 cost arnd 6.5k
and Xbox 360 premium... 25k 

i m confused wheather to spend almost 4 times extra....


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 25, 2007)

not 25k..... check that price...

Anyway.... kinda pointless buying a ps2 as games are going to stop being released for it pretty soon. If you want the latest games you need to have an X360.

but if you are on a budget.... you can get a PS2. there are tons of games worth playing ... God of War 1,2..... Metal Gear Solid...Devil may cry... just too many to name.


----------



## pra_2006 (Oct 25, 2007)

i think yes its really frustrating when new games requires high performance hardware i think its better to buy PS3 or X-Box 360 and play safe for atleast 3-4 years


----------



## devilz666 (Oct 26, 2007)

If you are a hardcore gamer then it is and it always was pointless to rely on PC for gaming , but i guess most of the ppl (like me) who use PCs for gaming are looking for a good value for money and do-it-all device rather than stick-to-ta-job device.


No matter wat ur PC config is , it will soon be an obsolete technology (atleast for a gaming)


so I think its far more better to buy a graphic card costing as much(or even bit lesser) as a PS3 (just an example )


----------



## anirudhasarawgi (Oct 26, 2007)

To fully enjoy xbox360/ps3 you need a 720p lcd tv with HDMI which costs 50k

So, to fully enjoy xbox360/ps3 75k is needed....a high-end pc also costs 75k

I am using single core system with 7800gt from Jan 2006 and I am able to play latest games on Dell E228wfp monitor on 720p resolution. I will be upgrading in Jan 2008, so we can run a 75k pc for 2 years.


----------



## supernova (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for your comments guys... i guess Xbox it is... can't wait to get my hands on one..!!


----------



## devilz666 (Oct 26, 2007)

anirudhasarawgi said:
			
		

> To fully enjoy xbox360/ps3 you need a 720p lcd tv with HDMI which costs 50k
> 
> So, to fully enjoy xbox360/ps3 75k is needed....a high-end pc also costs 75k
> 
> I am using single core system with 7800gt from Jan 2006 and I am able to play latest games on Dell E228wfp monitor on 720p resolution. I will be upgrading in Jan 2008, so we can run a 75k pc for 2 years.




come on man , im sure it looks gr8 on a normal TV too 

and considering a 75k investment in console and HDMI TV means tht TV will live longer than ur console will so its really long-long term investment.



and i m not (at all) against gaming on PC , coz thts my only link to gaming world, all i am saying is consoles are the best option for game frenzy ppl


----------



## naveen_reloaded (Oct 27, 2007)

pc i think is better .... i dont know ...
but since bcoz i am versed with it .. ithink it is good..
haven got enough xp on consoles...
ya played few but controls greatly suck.. (for me atleast)
compared to pc .. i think there is nt much freedom .. unless u get a keyboardand mouse and attach them.. as they ,mentioned above.. but again u should have a Hd supporting tv to get full XP///..


whtever ..

i cant get a console so stuck with pc ..

so supporting it ... ... hi hi


----------



## ring_wraith (Oct 28, 2007)

naveen, just coz you don't have a console, deoes'nt mean that you have to support the PC... that's called fanboyism, FYI. 

I agree that to get the full experience you need a HD TV, but a 50k TV will be atleast 32"! 32" TV is indeed a long term investment, and most of us are probably going to go HD within the next two years anyway. 

also, anirudhasarawgi, Technology is upgrading at a far more firece pace than before. And to get a system that will last you till 2010 for 75k is close to impossible.


----------



## faraaz (Oct 28, 2007)

I voted yes...and considering I am a SUPPORTER of PC gaming that's something. Here's why:

1) I've noticed that the number of quality titles being released for PC have gone down drastically. Unless you are talking about FPS games...but those are gay. Not a single QUALITY game has come out EXCLUSIVELY for the PC.

2) I usually keep track of the titles I am looking forward to being released. Over the years they kinda were from all platforms. However, my current wishlist only includes console games or console AND PC games...for example:
Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy XIII, Tekken 6, Heavenly Sword, NFS Pro Street etc.

These two things show me that the gaming industry is shifting focus from computers to consoles. 5 years from now? PC gaming will be pointless I think.


----------



## iMav (Oct 28, 2007)

a good read on this topic:

*www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2188453,00.asp


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Oct 28, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> a good read on this topic:
> 
> *www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2188453,00.asp


But console gaming is much more masti man .

Just put in the DVD n start gaming , no installation or driver issues .

Also , my XBOX 360 games look much much better than the PS2 counterparts even on my Samsung 29 inch TV(480p) using Component input . using composite input degrades the overall image quality drastically .


----------



## naveen_reloaded (Oct 30, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> a good read on this topic:
> 
> *www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2188453,00.asp


 very good article.

@ringwraith

Ar i told i am just stuck i just support.
Its not fanboyism..
But after reading this article i think i should support pc.


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 3, 2007)

I did happen to go through the article and have points to contradict every point in the article : 

1)1500$ is not cheap in india. It is 60k... and after you consider the fact that almost every product is really high priced in india that figure starts going higher and higher. Also, they claim that you use your PC for other stuff as well. Even a basic 15-20k PC can do all those things bloody well. Agreed that now PC games are cheaper than their console counterparts. But with the increased acceptance of consoles everywhere, this is set to change. 

2) This made no sense to me , considering patches are applied to both PCs and consoles and both are automated. 

3)How does the third point affect you? How do you care as to which is selling more is beyond me. And this point is again voided by the fact that the any console that can come out will not have had a fan base of over 50 years as the PC has had. Consider the fact that after 50 years of PC and barely 10 years of PS2 , The PS2 became serious competition for the PC. 

4) again, more of a defense for the PC. All of us know that the X360s system is far more stable and streamlined.

5)the fifth point again applies to both PCs and consoles, and more so to PCs..... 

SO all said and done... all ET has to say is that PC gaming isn't all that bad, they really haven't put forward a solid statement saying "PCs pwn consoles".... coz they dont. Give consoles a few years more, as compared to PC gaming, console gaming is really in it's infancy.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Nov 3, 2007)

I dunno why but I haf a gut feeling that consoles will go the PC way, meaning you can replace the gfx card etc. (just as you can put in a bigger hdd). I hope this doesn't become true...


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Nov 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> I dunno why but I haf a gut feeling that consoles will go the PC way, meaning you can replace the gfx card etc. (just as you can put in a bigger hdd). I hope this doesn't become true...


 nah this wouldn't happen , coz this will again bring up the problem of Different configurations , then developers will have to use Hardware ABstraction Layer(HAL) which wil severy degrade performance and thus consoles will perform like normal pc's 

the main strength of a console lies in it's uniform hardware archittecture so that the developer can fine tune the code for the platform .

also 99% of the code in console games is directly compiled without containing any DLL's , Abstraction Layers , Runtimes which is the reason for the console's stellar performance .


----------



## infra_red_dude (Nov 3, 2007)

Technology moves so fast.... What mite seem NOT possible today may well be possible tom. We may haf a standard specs. Who knows? Anyway that was just a feelin that I had and I wish it never becomes true.


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 5, 2007)

See that is not going to happen. Because if consoles , which play only games, require timely hardware upgrades , then they will become useless compared to PCs which need timely upgrades as well, but do everything. 

However, small upgrades like increasing HDD size etc... which do not affect the gaming part of a console will become a norm pretty soon.


----------



## Count Dracula (Nov 8, 2007)

PC's were never meant to be be used for gaming.Games were means of timepeass for whole day working employees for some relief.Now its a tradition.And also look at what other MORE IMPORTANT functions are PC's performing.
        But for pure gaming,Consoles are the sole gears.


----------



## shashank ayyar (Nov 8, 2007)

if a pc is only for gaming purposes then yes.a ps3 or xbox360 is way cheaper than a rig that would give the same quality experience. if you plan to build a rig that would survive a few games into the future then its cheaper to buy an xbox with a highdef tv even.


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 9, 2007)

Agreed. 

X360 (20k) + 32" 720p HDTV (50k) + PC for Net, Music, Movies etc.. (20k) = 80,000 [this will easily last for a few years]

SLi, Quad Core Gaming PC with 22" monitor - 80k 
Eventual Upgrade in a year - 20k [atleast]


----------



## KHUBBU (Nov 12, 2007)

Consoles are must if u r serious about gaming........no installation....no hardware/software requirements.....dont have to save money for ur next upgrade.....doesnt heats up...n u can easily carry it around ur frndz place...I was lucky to get a PS2 after wasting around 10K for my First gfx card....

Logic is simple...if u just want to note down somethng...notepad will do....but if u want a formatted letter etc u ll use Word.


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 17, 2007)

good point khubbu. Which is why notepad is so efficient


----------



## $$Gururaj$$ (Nov 19, 2007)

But.... PC ALWAYS new games/releases.. which is what we want aint it?

Crysis will be released for PC first... not on consoles.. it will be released later.. but who f*cking cares?


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 19, 2007)

Sure Crysis will be released on PC first, but do you have a PC that could handle crysis? Even if you do, most people dont. When the console version comes out, nobody will have to ask that question. And it will work so smoothly at awesome settings that it will make butter look bad thanks to the abscence of the HAL . And there will be a console version as crytek is not stupid enough to ignore the hundreds of thousands of console users.  

Besides, what about Gears of War, Halo 3, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Metal Gear Solid series, Resident Evil Series, god of war series etc etc.... i could just go on and on....


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Nov 20, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Sure Crysis will be released on PC first, but do you have a PC that could handle crysis? Even if you do, most people dont. When the console version comes out, nobody will have to ask that question. And it will work so smoothly at awesome settings that it will make butter look bad thanks to the abscence of the HAL . And there will be a console version as crytek is not stupid enough to ignore the hundreds of thousands of console users.
> 
> Besides, what about Gears of War, Halo 3, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Metal Gear Solid series, Resident Evil Series, god of war series etc etc.... i could just go on and on....


bang on target dude .


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 25, 2007)

Thanks man


----------



## bkpeerless (Nov 25, 2007)

But console is for those who can afford to buy original games for us who well cant dream of that has to stick to pc but again i dont think pc gives us more than games and ways to add mods creat maps patch and play the game in your own way...


----------



## entrana (Nov 25, 2007)

bkpeerless said:
			
		

> But console is for those who can afford to buy original games for us who well cant dream of that has to stick to pc but again i dont think pc gives us more than games and ways to add mods creat maps patch and play the game in your own way...


there are pirated games also for consoles buddy including x360


----------



## ring_wraith (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah, and even ORIGINAL PC games are priced similar to console games. So price really is not a valid argument.


----------



## Vivek788 (Dec 16, 2007)

it has sort of become useless to luk for playing all the latest games...they are running out of gud themes...and only graphics seems to be going up..h/w costs thus recurring every year or so for an average gamer...

but then sticking to old favs and playable low req games of high content quality is a great way to spend time...wich is in sort supply...


----------



## nvidia (Dec 16, 2007)

PC gaming is anytime the best. But these days consoles like PS3 are putting PC gaming to the edge


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 16, 2007)

The funny thing is that even though most of us agree that Consoles are better, the poll says something else....


----------



## bkpeerless (Dec 16, 2007)

entrana said:
			
		

> there are pirated games also for consoles buddy including x360



consoles has reached only metros and big cities in my town ps2 is even not avalable [].. and its easy to motivate parents to buy pc rather than buying console.. [] also... pc will be always on the edge the only preoblem is that gamemakers are pushing pc game grafix to the limit as nvedia men just making high end gfx card ...they r working as a team and we r suffering..


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 16, 2007)

I think among console games, PS2 is getting popular in India due to its being cheaper than most Grapphic Cards. So is XBox(360)

With PS2 @ 5000, no wonder people are attracted towards it, with all these new LCD TVs(like me)


----------



## zyberboy (Dec 16, 2007)

to me pc gaming rulzz
so same money can run my applications fast


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 18, 2007)

zyberboy , what does your post mean? Please don't assume that it is "cool" to use incorrect grammar......


----------



## zyberboy (Dec 19, 2007)

^^dude i am not acting cool...i am very poor in english.
So Please don't assume that every one knows english.


----------



## faraaz (Dec 19, 2007)

@zyberboy: I'm not an admin or anything and I've gotten into trouble on these boards in the past for...racy comments.

So lets just say "This is me pointing at you and laughing for expecting people to know you dont speak english on an english speaking board!"


----------



## zyberboy (Dec 19, 2007)

^they is no racy comments man

i am also confused how people come to the conclusion that using incorrect grammar is a cool thing to do(actually i am trying to improve my eng)


----------



## x3060 (Dec 19, 2007)

never winter nights is there for PC . . as long as it remains for PC am not buying console . . i just dont want to spend on a dedicated gaming device . i am happy with pc games .


----------



## faraaz (Dec 19, 2007)

@x3060: And my latest love...Guild Wars! I've been playing this game for the last couple of weeks now and I haven't slept more than 3 hours a night, even with Uni on weekdays...it just sucks you in and doesnt let go. No console game comes close to this kind of addictive replayability in a living breathing world. Final Fantasy XI doesn't count...


----------



## phreak0ut (Dec 19, 2007)

I don't even remember what my poll post was. Since this topic has again come up, I think PC gaming has become really pointless. I recently got a XFX 8600GT XXX from the US from my cous and I was so hoping to play games at 'high' settings, but I was dissappointed. Few old games do play, but not on such a high setting. Before that, I had to buy extra RAM, then a DVD burner(well, this is useful in the long run), then the PSU. I was also checking out some reviews, PC building sites, etc. I felt so ripped off to see that 8600GT was just an entry level card, though I didn't pay anything to get it. I did try my hands on the PS2, but I wasn't very comfortable with the gamepad. Actually, my friend felt the same when he tried the 16-bit video game, way back when we were in school  For me, video game was the best thing. Buy a cartridge, stick it in the slot and start playing right away! No cracks, no patches, no nothing. Just plain fun! I think I'm gonna buy myself a console in 2 years time, in case my craze for gaming still exists


----------



## thrash_metal (Dec 19, 2007)

Console anyday... eventough I own a good PC , i got an X360 ... worth and better anyday . And now X360 directly plays Divx ... so thats a great entertaintment solution as well .


----------



## faraaz (Dec 19, 2007)

phreak0ut said:
			
		

> I felt so ripped off to see that 8600GT was just an entry level card, though I didn't pay anything to get it.



This is the problem with your post. You did not do sufficient research on your purchase decision. If you buy a Maruti 800 and want to do drags vs Lancer Evos, dont blame the poor Maruti! You should have checked your facts!!

And from reading your post, I can see that what you did was a generic upgrade of your computer alongwith the upgrade for your graphics card. Saying that computer gaming is expensive may be true in some cases, but certainly not valid based on your situation! Caveat emptor my friend...caveat emptor!


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 19, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> This is the problem with your post. You did not do sufficient research on your purchase decision. If you buy a Maruti 800 and want to do drags vs Lancer Evos, dont blame the poor Maruti! You should have checked your facts!!


The whole point of this thread, imho, is that your Porshe Targa soon become Maruti 800 while the roads are getting better and better everyday!


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 19, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> The whole point of this thread, imho, is that your Porshe Targa soon become Maruti 800 while the roads are getting better and better everyday!


the main reason behind this is the fact that the Graphic Cards are rolling out faster than ever. So each game needs higher system resources than its predecessor. I wish game manufacturing companies zeroed in on a simgle standard for gaming. If this is done, we can be happy with an 8800GT for 3 years. But with consoles, they don't exactly roll out a model every two months, so that upgrade issue does not arise.

The PC is a powerful machine. But its not utilised properly. If given a dedicated OS for games, and just an 8800GT 512 + 2 GB 800 MHz DDR2 RAM + Intel Core2Quad 6600, the machine has the potential to perform better than three XBoxes. Only Optimisation is needed.

Games have still not standardised rigs. like the above, standard rig configurations could be adhered to while making games.


----------



## phreak0ut (Dec 20, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> This is the problem with your post. You did not do sufficient research on your purchase decision. If you buy a Maruti 800 and want to do drags vs Lancer Evos, dont blame the poor Maruti! You should have checked your facts!!
> 
> And from reading your post, I can see that what you did was a generic upgrade of your computer alongwith the upgrade for your graphics card. Saying that computer gaming is expensive may be true in some cases, but certainly not valid based on your situation! Caveat emptor my friend...caveat emptor!


 
Ofcourse I did my homework!! Can you expect someone to buy you a gfx card of YOUR need just because you ask them?? My cousin buys a lot of gifts to everyone in our family tree. I mean EVERYONE! So, would it be fair to ask for an 8800GT?? If I was earning, I would have definitely bought a kick-ass rig, only to be obsolete in 6 months


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 20, 2007)

zyberboy, i assumed that you were just one of those idiots who use incorrect grammar to appear cool. My mistake. I will be more tolerant from now on. 

and console games aren't addictive? okay lets start off  : Resident Evil 4, any of the FIFA series, Tekken, Devil May Cry, and so many more....

And yes the point of the thread is to prove that PC gaming is getting more and more pointless as almost every day upgrades are released that render older tech obsolete. And apart from this consoles have several advantages. 

Yet another proof is that even if you spent 60k on a 2x30,000k 8800 Ultra your games wont look as good as they can as soon as DX 10.1 is released and you will have to buy a new GPU..... ouch!


----------



## faraaz (Dec 20, 2007)

@phreakout: Totally valid point...which is why you shouldnt be complaining the card isn't powerful enough...


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 20, 2007)

^^yup, agreed. lol, if we stick to PC gaming we need to start earning before we can play games....


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 21, 2007)

This is a very subjective concept.I would take in any kind of gaming as long as it's fun. 

Initially I had started out with consoles just like any other average joe & then prioritied shifted to newer graphic styles which was graced by PC gaming & from then on it became a very bad race between these 2 worlds.I now own a PC which somewhat sustains most of the games @1280x1024 resolutions with medium settings(except Crysis) & I get great visuals.I think that almost half of my salary has been blown off into getting some or the other part as an upgrade for my PC.If this trend continues,I'll soon be bankrupt. 

Now If I look out for buying an Xbox 360 or a PS3 then both of these would eventually provde quite an expensive deals too.Now if we look out for a premium XBox 360 console+additional controller+Rs.2k games then it come off roughly to 29-30k.Now these console's true potential is realised with a good HDTV which is capable to output 720p resolutions(1280x720) which would again cost a fortune,say 35-40k for a good brand.Continuing the purchase of Xbox 360 games would be again an expensive deal.If I get say 6-7 Xbox games costing 2k each then I could get a Xbox 360 core system for the same price.Then again the stability issues of RROD for the console. 

PS3 Blu Ray games seem even more expensive deal with each title coming in at 2.4k atleast.This proves that even a consoles too are costly affair.

PC users are now feeling the pinch is because graphic card manufacturers are constantly trying to outrun their own products.Case point,8800GT replacing 8800GTS.This is something which happened only in a span of couple of months.This is why one would think 10 times before choosing a graphic card now as there is no saying if 8800GT would be replaced with another cheaper 9 series card which outperforms the 8800GT & 8800GTX. 

So console's are a long term asset which PC's are always flexible & expandable(at a cost of course).This is how I can best frame it in.


----------



## xbonez (Dec 22, 2007)

hmm....the que this thread poses really leaves me flabbergasted....

PC gaming becoming pointless??? but, where was the point in the first place?? the only reason ppl play games (99.9%) is for leisure...if u njoy gaming, then it hasn't become pointless...rather simple.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 22, 2007)

well on a pc u can't stay future secure even if you buy a high end rig coz within a few months it will be something called ''Mid Range" and almost all new games will require something better than that to run at their best settings.and within next few months some new idiot will come up with another game which requires some high end card like crysis  or a new card will be released and then?ur rig is nowhere.now i dont think anyone ever upgraded a console.and there's not even an option to do that.surely blu ray costs a fortune at present but there was a time when HP cd writer had a price tag of 14000.so why do u expect game prices to stay the same.and by the way i don't think all ppl here buy every original game?even if console games are priced as pc games ppl will still prefer to get pirated ones.so cost ain't a point.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 22, 2007)

@ allwtdilama, thank you for that thoughtful post. 

I completely agree with you on the fact that both forms of gaming have become wxceptionally expensive hobbies. I also agree on the bankrupcy part. 

However, I feel that PC gaming has become pointless because once you actually go out and buy your upgrade [which itself should cost more than a console] , you have to go through the whole process of benching, optimising, patching and overclocking, and once you are done with all that, you can actually get down to playing you game only to be bogged down by stability isses.  Also, there is the often painfully long process of installing a game then applying all subsequent patches. 

On the other hand, in a console , you simply buy it, put a game in, and play. Simplicity, if nothing else, is clearly where consoles win. 

Also, look at the price factor, once you buy a console , you can rest assured that for at least 3 years, all the newest games will be well within your reach. Whereas on the PC, if you want to play the newest games at settings that won't be an insult to them, you have to keep upgrading you PC every 6 months....
Also , most ORIGINAL, new PC games cost about as much or are slightly cheaper than console games. 

Also, about your concerns with the RROD, it is a mere manafacturing defect that is prevalent on just one console that is being ironed out already with the introduction of the falcon chips. So stability is hardly an issue in consoles. 

​


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 22, 2007)

^ and microsoft confirms that RROD will be there when u mod\flash ur xbox or something like that.and a few of unmodded consoles which had that problem have been replaced.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 22, 2007)

Just for info, flashing is done to load backups  

And AFAIK flashing does not cause RRODs if done correctly. Hardware problems do. And the new Xbox 360s don't have this problem anymore.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 22, 2007)

well i checked a lot of forums before posting that comment.most of the ppl having rrod have modded their xboxes.yes a few are there with legit problems who have got it replaced
and making backups of dvd ain't legal even if u have original game-thats what is written on most original dvds.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 22, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> This is a very subjective concept.I would take in any kind of gaming as long as it's fun.
> 
> Initially I had started out with consoles just like any other average joe & then prioritied shifted to newer graphic styles which was graced by PC gaming & from then on it became a very bad race between these 2 worlds.I now own a PC which somewhat sustains most of the games @1280x1024 resolutions with medium settings(except Crysis) & I get great visuals.I think that almost half of my salary has been blown off into getting some or the other part as an upgrade for my PC.If this trend continues,I'll soon be bankrupt.
> 
> ...


Dude , most new 360 Games cost Rs 1895 or Rs 1495 and 360Classics cost Rs 999 , so they're not a bad deal .

Also , considering that u buy legit PC games then consoles cost much less than the PC's and give a better gaming experience .


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 22, 2007)

^Not a bad deal true but they are still costly.If you look at the Orange Box for Xbox 360 it costs around Rs.1,999 INR whereas the same retail DVD for PC Platform is around Rs.999 or less in some places..Rs.2150 for PAL COD4 Xbox 360 version & PC counterpart stands at Rs.1,299.Plus many PC games if you see right now are coming down to the sub 1k mark.Take a game like Crysis for example which is subtly placed at Rs.999(Rs.800 at Alfa).Now that's not an old game my friend. 

I don't disagree to the fact that getting a console is a relatively cheaper alternative to a semi-high end PC but my point is it's supplementing HDTV requirement which puts me off the purchase.As I can go for either an Xbox 360 or a PS3 right now.But I can't blow so much cash for getting a new HDTV for it. 

@ring_wraith: Console's are made with the purpose of gaming in mind hence the output ensures a smooth gaming experience.Plus each games made for it are coded accordingly to the similar hardware specifications by the developers.On the PC,it's a whole different ball game as you have a large number of configurations to address to & not everyone owns a 20k or 30k+ graphic card or Quad processors.Hence developers have to code them to make them playable with some bare minimum hardware specifications & as such they can't test the game out with every combination of hardware available out there.Hence PC gaming is very complicated task.



> you have to go through the whole process of benching, optimising, patching and overclocking, and once you are done with all that, you can actually get down to playing you game only to be bogged down by stability isses.


Patching is not a term which is affiliated now-a-days with PC only.If you look at Assasin's Creed on the PS3 then Sony has now released a patch for it's freezing issue on it's console via PSN.Hence console's too are turning more like PC. 



> Also , most ORIGINAL, new PC games cost about as much or are slightly cheaper than console games.


For Xbox 360 yeah there might be some but let me know of one PS3 blu ray title which you can find over here below 1.5k?  



> Also, about your concerns with the RROD, it is a mere manafacturing defect that is prevalent on just one console that is being ironed out already with the introduction of the falcon chips. So stability is hardly an issue in consoles.


It's not just a 'mere' manufacturing defect with one console as you call it.If that was the case then MS wouldn't have incurred such huge stock of console's piling up & leading to huge losses.It was much more than that.That was the main reason why MS had increased the warranty from 1 year to 3 years.That's how bad it was.And add to that was those DVD drive issues which would scracth the DVD's you would insert in it.That was what one of my friend had faced with his recent 360 he had got for himself. 

Anyways not that I am against these things but for me I'll wait for sometime until their prices stabilise along with the hardware issues & then choose to go for either one of them.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 22, 2007)

Dude it's not compulsory to get an HDTV for a 360 . you can very well play it on a good TV .

Additionally , you can even use it with an LCD monitor with the VGA cable so no need of buying an HDTV if u currently have an LCD Monitor .

As for the RROD part , microsoft is giving you a free console replacement , what else do you want .

And for the scratched disc part , it only happens when the console is running and you change it's orientation , i.e. change it frmo vertical to horizontal or vice versa , otherwise your discs will be perfectly safe .

Also , you have a scratched disc warranty on your games . i personally got my Dead or Alive 4 disc changed free-of-charge bcoz i accidently knocked down my xbox(horizontal to vertical) and the disc got scratched along the circumference .

Also , on your point of the consoles being tailor-made for gaming . well that's actually a Strong Point for consoles as there is only a single configuration of a single console in the market the developer can actually spend more time developing the actual game rather than testing,benchmarking and then re-testing it for different PC Configs .

Also , for the game patch issues , console game are way stabler than PC games and in my 360 if a game has a patch available(very rarely needed) then it automatically updates the game when i connect to Xbox live ( it downloads the update in the background , letting you play the game and when the update is downloaded it applies the patch )


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 22, 2007)

since when have all you guys started calling paying of 1k, 2, 2.5k and 3k for games worth it?

Hell, for the cost of a few games today, I can buy a starter rig...

Gaming in India as it is, is quite pointless in itself if you want to buy original games. With most of them costing an arm and a leg, the pleasure you get through games itself gets reduced when you look back at what you spent on that game.

As I said before, a standard rig needs to be adopted for gaming, with each standard lasting an year or so and game manufacturing companies following that standard. We also need a Gaming OS. This is the only way PC gaming can become better.

As for console gaming, there is always the Piracy problem. You either need to risk the warranty, law and money and go pirate, or you need to shell out lots of cash for Originals.

Hell, these guys set rubbish standards. I mean, you can't even play a backup coppy of your game legally. What do they expect us to do? Run a game off a DVD bought for 2K, and burn it out or get it scratched within 3 months? This is getting more and more unfair by time. As of now, PC gaming is the only way one can play well.

Lets face it, either way you need to spend. In PCs, you have frequent upgrade blues. In consoles, you have frequent purchase blues.

Regarding portable consoles, I remember buying a Game Boy Advance SP a few years back when I was deeply intrested in them. Guess what? It cost 6.5K, and I only got a dumb machine. Even pirated games for it cost 0.5K. Auxillary stuff for it don't come bundled. Each and every thing is like shelling out a lot of cash. Even the charger needed a power adapter. I finally gave it up as $hit(that $ is intended in this context) Infact, as far as gameboys are concerned, the only way to enjoy them fully is by buying a Wii/GameCube, and lots of other stuff, and go and settle in the US or Japan.


So in simple words, the verdict is this: To enjoy gaming, anything is fine, and equally good, as long as you are filthy rich, and got lotsa cash to burn.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 22, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Dude it's not compulsory to get an HDTV for a 360 . you can very well play it on a good TV .


Without having a 720p resolution you mean & miss out on what the console actually is built to offer.Then NO can do.It's like having a 20k graphic card & running it at 800x600 resolutions. 



> As for the RROD part , microsoft is giving you a free console replacement , what else do you want .


So keep sending the console until you are lucky enough to get a non-faulty one? Seriously man I would rather pay more & have something stable & which doesn't cough up so often.



> And for the scratched disc part , it only happens when the console is running and you change it's orientation , i.e. change it frmo vertical to horizontal or vice versa , otherwise your discs will be perfectly safe .


FYI it placed in one stationary position in my friend's case right from day one.No twists & no turns.



> Also , on your point of the consoles being tailor-made for gaming . well that's actually a Strong Point for consoles as there is only a single configuration of a single console in the market the developer can actually spend more time developing the actual game rather than testing,benchmarking and then re-testing it for different PC Configs .


Didn't put it across as a negative point in the first place.Was merely comparing the scenarios for the 2 platforms. 



> Also , for the game patch issues , console game are way stabler than PC games and in my 360 if a game has a patch available(very rarely needed) then it automatically updates the game when i connect to Xbox live ( it downloads the update in the background , letting you play the game and when the update is downloaded it applies the patch )


But the point is,a patch is needed isn't it? Albeit process is different on each platforms both of them needed it whenever a game experiences issues.This was not the case with the earlier generation consoles like PS2.Since the newer consoles are becoming more like PC they will have to share some of the same brunt as the PC users have to do when a hardware or software fails.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 22, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> So keep sending the console until you are lucky enough to get a non-faulty one? Seriously man I would rather pay more & have something stable & which doesn't cough up so often.



what makes u think microsoft will keep u sending some defected consoles everytime?



> FYI it placed in one stationary position in my friend's case right from day one.No twists & no turns.


send it to them and get it replaced.ask on the official xbox forums about disk scratches.u wont find anyone having that problem when the console is kept still.it occurs when the console's orientation is changed with the disc inside it--no matter ur playing or not.



> But the point is,a patch is needed isn't it? Albeit process is different on each platforms both of them needed it whenever a game experiences issues.This was not the case with the earlier generation consoles like PS2.Since the newer consoles are becoming more like PC they will have to share some of the same brunt as the PC users have to do when a hardware or software fails.


the patch for a console is on the dvd itself.u dont have to download.and its got nothing to do with the patches of PC since not every pc has the same hardware but consoles are the same.so its a universal patch.not a patch rather---an update for the console like updates for windows.whereas a pc game patch patches the game.
no offence but comparing them is just worthless.

and there are other 2 consoles too which we are neglecting here.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 22, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> what makes u think microsoft will keep u sending some defected consoles everytime?


Dude even if I go through it twice then believe me I have had it with the console & won't have enough patience to bet on another one.But that's just we & am hence not universally comparing.My point is with their past vendetta with the console overheating & constant RROD's I would rather wait & get it when MS manufactures it with some good falcon chips or atleast has some less issues.



> the patch for a console is on the dvd itself.u dont have to download.and its got nothing to do with the patches of PC since not every pc has the same hardware but consoles are the same.so its a universal patch.not a patch rather---an update for the console like updates for windows.whereas a pc game patch patches the game.


You mean everything or rather every patch comes on the DVD & nothing is download via Xbox Live? No game updates are required via Xbox live? 



> no offence but comparing them is just worthless.


None taken.But the point is not to bring down either platform but everything has it's own blues & bliss so nothing is secured completely.I was just putting some points which I felt would need to improve a bit for the current generation of console & I would never fringe in buying one.Heck I started out with consoles so would never give up on one.I love gaming.PERIOD.That's all I care.Then be it console or PC.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 22, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> So keep sending the console until you are lucky enough to get a non-faulty one? Seriously man I would rather pay more & have something stable & which doesn't cough up so often.
> 
> Dude even if I go through it twice then believe me I have had it with the console & won't have enough patience to bet on another one.But that's just we & am hence not universally comparing.My point is with their past vendetta with the console overheating & constant RROD's I would rather wait & get it when MS manufactures it with some good falcon chips or atleast has some less issues



RROD problem has been fixed with Falcon


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 22, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> You mean everything or rather every patch comes on the DVD & nothing is download via Xbox Live? No game updates are required via Xbox live?


yeah.afaik none of xbox 360 games require updates thru live to play them..but yeah u need those kind of updates when playing xbox (not 360) games.and if i m not wrong the only other update was to xbox live.


and new consoles don't have RROD trouble.so its safe to invest in one.and all the consoles that got replaced have not encountered RROD again.the earlier replacements had the same problem but they fixed it too.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 23, 2007)

Some very good points coming through. 

The first I want to mention is again in connection to the RRODs. The Xbox 360, like almost every other gadget has a launch-manafacturing defect. And this has been fixed. The ipod nanos have tilted screens, the PSPs had dead pixels, the PS2s had DRE, and the X360 HAD RRODs. These get ironed out over time, and kudos to microsoft for ironing it out so quickly. 

Another thing is, Console games require patches really rarely, and even if they do, it is a far more seamless process on the console than on a PC , what with XBL and PSN providing more than updates for all your games in one place. 

And it was very correctly pointed out that we are sticking only to the Xbox 360! The PS3 with its BD - Drive represents the integration of gaming consoles and entertainment centres. It's very hard to imagine your entire family huddled around your computer table, watching the latest movie on a 19" or 21" screen isn't it?  And the Wii represents what I consider the true next gen of gaming. Far better Immersiveness than any console or PC will ever provide you. And of course the PSP, which is THE console for gaming on the go. 

With so many strong players on the "console" side, as the cliche goes, "_Its only a matter of time."  _


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 23, 2007)

wii's sales tell a lot about it.and ps3 good for those who also want cheapest blu ray drives


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 23, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> Dude even if I go through it twice then believe me I have had it with the console & won't have enough patience to bet on another one.But that's just we & am hence not universally comparing.My point is with their past vendetta with the console overheating & constant RROD's I would rather wait & get it when MS manufactures it with some good falcon chips or atleast has some less issues.


 Dude the RROD happens over a period of a year , so you will haev an RROD about a year later so if you get a replacement , it will last you about a year before it RRODs and now with the falcon in the market , you can be damn sure that if you get a replacement in 2008 it will be a falcon so no more worries of RROD .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 24, 2007)

All these issues with PCs existed from long time. PC vs ps1 & ps2 existed even back then. Microsoft is to blame for the drop in pc games last 2 years. Even the hardcore PC game developers (orange box and bioshock) had to release on consoles because of the holes in Microsoft. Microsoft screwed up directx 10. For forcing gamers to upgrade to vista, it hyped directx 10 and made some games vista only (halo2, ultra high of crysis) although they can run fine on xp (due to patch). Which proves that dx10 is bull. Game developers could not develop games on dx10 because of the bad drivers,  lack of good hardware (there was no clear cut "most gamers will buy this graphics card") and vista dilema (will people upgrade or not). Now the issue is slowly settling. Gamers are not moving to vista ultimate (seriously ultimate x64 is "the gamer edition") unless their config is ultra high. valve's surveys have shown mostly people are using 7600gt and 8800gts. Thats the reason they developed oragne box to give high fps one high settings on 7600gt and ultra high settings on 8800gts.

Here are the reasons why I will not buy consoles:
1. Too expensive. I will anyway own a dualcore 1gb ram pc. All the graphics cards i buy will be cheaper than console + hd tv. 
2. I want to play when other people want to use tv.
3. Graphics quality of pc versions is higher. Be it GTA or gears of war.
4. I like to tweak my games. I like to enable extra blood through ini. I like to change some textures ( oblivion), i want to install mods like jailbreak.
5. Dont want to waste time patching. I am going to patch my computer regularly anyway. I donnot want to maintain and patch my consoles too.
6. I like PC titles more. Half life, farcry, system shock, diablo and warcraft. I hate halo a lot because the the weapons dont feel like weapons do in PC shooters like stalker and farcry. Console games are dumbed down due to non geek population percentage being high.
7. reconnecting speakers. I dont want to reconnect my 5.1 speakers everytimes i want to listen to music or watch movie on computer or play games on console.
8. LAN gaming. I can play cs, ut, nfs on hostel LAN and find servers easily. But noone else owns console to do console gaming.
9. I dont want to use mod chips and lose warranty and get banned on live account. Retail PC games are easily available and are lot cheapers. PC game prices drop quickly but console game prices dont drop in India.
The disadvantages dont apply to me:
1. Cost. I buy graphics card only if it can it can run games of playtimes of 2 years minimum before upgrading. I dont upgrade just because crysis has come out. I bought 7600gt last year and I have played an avg of 8 hours per day. I got Raedon 7500 (mobile on laptop) in 2001 and played avg 10 hours per day.
2. patching and tweaking. I format every semester (6 months) and i have my own customised windows xp installation on acronis true image. I only have to update antivirus and realtek and nvidia drivers.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 24, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> All these issues with PCs existed from long time. PC vs ps1 & ps2 existed even back then. Microsoft is to blame for the drop in pc games last 2 years. Even the hardcore PC game developers (orange box and bioshock) had to release on consoles because of the holes in Microsoft. Microsoft screwed up directx 10. For forcing gamers to upgrade to vista, it hyped directx 10 and made some games vista only (halo2, ultra high of crysis) although they can run fine on xp (due to patch). Which proves that dx10 is bull. Game developers could not develop games on dx10 because of the bad drivers,  lack of good hardware (there was no clear cut "most gamers will buy this graphics card") and vista dilema (will people upgrade or not). Now the issue is slowly settling. Gamers are not moving to vista ultimate (seriously ultimate x64 is "the gamer edition") unless their config is ultra high. valve's surveys have shown mostly people are using 7600gt and 8800gts. Thats the reason they developed oragne box to give high fps one high settings on 7600gt and ultra high settings on 8800gts.
> 
> Here are the reasons why I will not buy consoles:
> 1. Too expensive. I will anyway own a dualcore 1gb ram pc. All the graphics cards i buy will be cheaper than console + hd tv.
> ...



I'm sorry , but i don't agree with most of your points, other than the 2nd.

1.Consoles are too expensive? The HDTV is something you are going to buy sooner or later anyway. It is an investment. The PS3 and X360 can be had for the price of a high end GPU.

2. agreed

3. Unless you have a really high end PC, not really. 

4. You do, agreed, but most people dont. And mods are available for consoles anyway. 

5. So, according to you, patching a console is tougher and takes more time than Pc patching? [sarcasm]Damn you automatic downloading and installing on consoles [/sarcasm]

6. Console titles are DUMBED down? Where are you getting this stuff? And game developers are releasing almost all their games on consoles too [look at Unreal tournament]. But there are lots of console games that are never going to appear on PC... And who said you have to be a geek to play games?????

7. Welcome to the future buddy. The PS3 and X360 can store and play music, play high def movies as well as games. And i'm sorry but i prefer to watch a movie on a 32" HDTV as compared to my lousy 17" tFT.

8. Consoles have multi player support built in! no need of LAN gaming. And you will be hard pressed to not be able to find servers on XBL and PSN! 

9. Mod chips are used to play pirated games. Lets see you play a pirated game on steam. And about the price, PS2 games start from 499 today. I wonder how that happened if console game prices don't drop.

And the disadvantages do not apply to you? Who cares? This thread is about gaming in general! The disadvantages apply to most people. Did you see "Which is better for adithyagenius? Console Gaming or PC gaming? " as the thread title? 

Please think befor arguing!


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 24, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> All these issues with PCs existed from long time. PC vs ps1 & ps2 existed even back then. Microsoft is to blame for the drop in pc games last 2 years. Even the hardcore PC game developers (orange box and bioshock) had to release on consoles because of the holes in Microsoft. Microsoft screwed up directx 10. For forcing gamers to upgrade to vista, it hyped directx 10 and made some games vista only (halo2, ultra high of crysis) although they can run fine on xp (due to patch). Which proves that dx10 is bull. Game developers could not develop games on dx10 because of the bad drivers,  lack of good hardware (there was no clear cut "most gamers will buy this graphics card") and vista dilema (will people upgrade or not). Now the issue is slowly settling. Gamers are not moving to vista ultimate (seriously ultimate x64 is "the gamer edition") unless their config is ultra high. valve's surveys have shown mostly people are using 7600gt and 8800gts. Thats the reason they developed oragne box to give high fps one high settings on 7600gt and ultra high settings on 8800gts.
> 
> Here are the reasons why I will not buy consoles:
> 1. Too expensive. I will anyway own a dualcore 1gb ram pc. All the graphics cards i buy will be cheaper than console + hd tv.
> ...


You are starting to hit the targets...

IMO, the best way PC gaming can be made better is if you could install a dedicated Gaming OS, that has been compiled on your own PC, and has its only objective as to play games, and hence barely uses any resource. Linux comes close to the target here, so I feel that if Game developers decided to release only OpenGL Linux games, we could immidiately have a gaming-centric distribution for extracting maximum juice out of the system. Windows could still be used for day to day computer tasks.

And yes, you are right in saying that its not nessary to buy new GPUs just for a newer game.

Game developers are to blame, for increasing the system requirements by each new game released.

The world would be a better place to game if a standard was adopted for PC games. Its too bad IBM has expired its patent of the PC, because if it was active, I am sure they would have done something to standardise PC gaming. Now we only have consoles to look at, if Graphic requirements keep increasing as a parabolic function of time. Hell with Moore's law.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 24, 2007)

Totally true dude .

Consoles are tailor-made for gaming and thus offer the best gaming experience .

@adithyagenius , dude even if you want to change speakers every time a single *optical cable* is not much hassle , much like putting in a power-plug you may say .

ALso , in most cases you won't be able to affors as high end a PC as to support the resolution and GFX quality outputted by console games(my xbox 360 churns games at 1920 x 1080 constantly , beat that on a 15k gaming rig coz Xbox 360 core costs Rs 15k n that too with 2 Free Original Games )


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 24, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> ALso , in most cases you won't be able to affors as high end a PC as to support the resolution and GFX quality outputted by console games(my xbox 360 churns games at 1920 x 1080 constantly , beat that on a 15k gaming rig coz Xbox 360 core costs Rs 15k n that too with 2 Free Original Games )


You can even make PCs tailor made for gaming. All you need to do is to compile the OS right in the same machine, and strip it down so that it does nothing but game. As I already said before, this can't happen unless developers of games move away from windows and go to linux.

And yes, you can also compile the game on the same machine if you want to "tailor" it for the box.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 24, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> You can even make PCs tailor made for gaming. All you need to do is to compile the OS right in the same machine, and strip it down so that it does nothing but game. As I already said before, this can't happen unless developers of games move away from windows and go to linux.
> 
> And yes, you can also compile the game on the same machine if you want to "tailor" it for the box.


and from where are you gonna get the source code to compile ?

I'm talkin of current scenario . also even if you compile , having different configurations is the biggest prob .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 24, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> I'm sorry , but i don't agree with most of your points, other than the 2nd.
> 
> 1.Consoles are too expensive? The HDTV is something you are going to buy sooner or later anyway. It is an investment. The PS3 and X360 can be had for the price of a high end GPU.
> 
> ...



You don't have to be sorry to disagree. Everyone is in different situations and have different tastes. For me PC is best. But you didnt understand some of my points due to them being very short. Lemme explain...

1. I will not buy HDTV because i dont see TV nor anyone in my family wants to see saas bahu serials. DD is going HD but it will simply upscale the resolution of its crappy quality videos and beam em using satellite. I dont see myself buying HDTV for next 8 years. If you intelligently buy graphics cards it will be cheaper. The problem is that many cards out there are simply not vfm and some appear vfm but are not. I have been playing games since 1996. I have spent only 14k on graphics cards till now I can still play COD4 at medium high and play Bioshock at high settings. I dont judge performance based on avg fps but on minimum fps and lot more things. I also don't upgrade just because crysis type games come out. I will play crysis with my next upgrade expected to be sept 08. Also buying graphics cards at the right time is also important. Many who bought 8600gt are simply screwed unless this was an upgrade from geforce 4 or raedon 8500 or onboard. Geforce 8 series allows you to play very few games which you can't play on geforce 7 series.

3. Read my above point, that choosing awesome graphics cards at right time by looking for right performance benchmarks and analysing if its needed. I always play games at settings that are way higher than consoles.

4. Exactly. I want tweaks and dont care if others dont want. Most of the mods are not available for consoles. Mods are developed using toolkits provided by the developer and are developed on PC.

5. According to me maintaining a PC + console is tougher than maintaining PC alone. No sarcasm.

6. Thats the trend. Take deus ex for example. The original game rocked because of all the complex skills and augmentations. Deus Ex : Invisible War was dumbed to handle some console audience. The game simply didn't meet the standards of original deus ex. Blizzard doesn't make games for consoles. Tell me a few games which are very nice and are not available for PC.. I am asking because I genuinely want to know.

7. I know the media capabilities of consoles thanks to my console owning friends. But they can't handle my 73GB music collection on my computer harddisk. Where will I store that? How will I arrange when new content gets added. Most of my videos can't be played due to codec issues. Seriously, even Ubuntu is unable to play them due lack of codecs for linux. I like wmp11's search as you type media library. Regarding the size of the screen - Most importance thing is the angle subtended by the image. I think 17" is enough for such close range viewing. For movies I have 17" widescreen laptop and an old 21" onida Black TV. Gaming is more impoartant than movies to me anyways.

8. I want LAN gaming because thats what all my friends have. Everyone of my friends has LAN but no access to internet except college wifi. The ping is very inconsistant and too high for playing due location as well ISPs issues in India, compared to max ping on LAN being 24 ms. Sometimes there is LAG while playing Quake 3 among friends in Visakhapatnam and Mumbai using BSNL and MTNL. The fact that I am playing with my classmates and seniors is better. I dont want to spend money on xbox live.

9. How old are those PS2 games? I can get orange box for Rs 725. I am talking of somewhat recent games.


the thread is about gamers. So it obviously includes me. This is a poll and generally posts should be " I voted for this because of these...". Thats what my post is. I voted for PC gaming and why. Obviosuly more people like PC than consoles. So I am part of the general audience and I contribute to it and maybe others share my situational constraints. Dont know why you have issue with that. Do you listen to certain band just because people generally are listening to that band? People listen to what they like and everyone contributes to the statistics for personal reasons as there is no "in general".



			
				Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Totally true dude .
> 
> Consoles are tailor-made for gaming and thus offer the best gaming experience .
> 
> ...



I did check out graphics quality man. But speakers with optical cable cost too much and are not vfm in my budget range. I am using Creative T6060 for 5.1 gaming. T6060 causes a huge mess of wires apart from placing them behind my computer and all. All my money for gaming comes from scholarship. I simply cannot afford console gaming. Also I am worried about image quality rather than the reolution since i use small screens and sit very close. I want highest quality textures possible. If i start earning I will start spending on consoles too.


----------



## napster007 (Dec 24, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> I dont see myself buying HDTV for next 8 years.



if ur going to play games for the next 8 years on ur crt monitor ............may god be with you man!!!!


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 24, 2007)

napster007 said:
			
		

> if ur going to play games for the next 8 years on ur crt monitor ............may god be with you man!!!!


How is not buying HDTV imply using CRT monitor only? Even now, to an good extent CRT is better due to brightness, contrast, response times, aspect ratio and cost. Once I have finished with 4:3 only games and LCD panels lose all their shortcomings, I will upgrade to 19" or 20" widescreen. I think it will take few more months for that to happen. I am buying a computer and it will have good monitor and hence its not a cost due to gaming. Whether I buy console or not I will be buying the standard monitor anyway.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 24, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> Geforce 8 series allows you to play very few games which you can't play on geforce 7 series.


Could you elaborate a bit more on this point? Not really sure what it meant.



			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> 2. I want to play when other people want to use tv.


Now that's a brilliant point.Why didn't I think of that.My current PS2 purchase is held on because I have a 14 inch TV in my bedroom which supports only PAL signals & hence those NTSC version DVD's won't display any colour.My living room's TV is mostly used by my parent's & hence most of their time goes in watching age old serials so I get kicked back into my room. As such I like my privacy so would like to play inside but can't due to this silly restriction.I can't buy another TV for it now,can I? 



			
				Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> ALso , in most cases you won't be able to affors as high end a PC as to support the resolution and GFX quality outputted by console games(my xbox 360 churns games at 1920 x 1080 constantly , beat that on a 15k gaming rig coz Xbox 360 core costs Rs 15k n that too with 2 Free Original Games)


Just out of curiosity,which HDTV do you have? or are you playing via those VGA cables connected to your monitor?


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 24, 2007)

adityagenius, some very good points again. When i said that this thread was not centred around you i meant to ask you to look at the bigger picture. And i completely disagree with the console games being dumbed down. There are always one or two exceptions. BTW, the PS3 HDD can be swapped out with even a 250GB one if you wish.... Again with the codecs thing, steadily, updates will give support for most codecs. The X360 supports DivX now! Regarding the LAN gaming thing, that is needless to say very rare in India. Very few people have LAN parties. And the PS2 games are indeed somewhat new....

side note : Scholarship money on GAMING -> NIIICE!!! ROCK ON MAN! 

Regarding the console games here we go: 
1)God of War series [need i say more]
2)Metal Gear Solid Series 
3)Ninja Gaiden Series
4)Resident Evil series [sure RE4 was ported, but we all know that that was broken]
5)Shadow of the Collosus + Genji 
6)Guitar Hero series 
7)tekken series
i hope you get the picture. There are sooooo many more. 


Again, with the linux - box idea, that is very hard to make work. A different OS for every PC out there? Do you have any idea what a nightmare that would become for Diriver distirbutors? And i'm pretty sure ordinary people don't know how to code an entire OS. 

Maybe if someone made a software that generated an OS..... a long shot.... but still...


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 24, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> Could you elaborate a bit more on this point? Not really sure what it meant.


Sorry for long reply, but i have included my upgrade technique.
I am simply saying that upgrading graphics card when a new generation becomes standard is waste of money. Take for ex: 7600 GT and 8600GT. 7600GT can play all the games released upto 2006 and few games of 2007 like perseus mandate, hellgate london orange box at high settings. 8600GT gives better framerates than 7600GT in stalker, bioshock and COD4 at high settings. Crysis is still unplayable. 7600GT can also be used to play COD4, Bioshock and stalker but settings have to be reduced to get stable frame rate. Also, 8600GT will definitely not allow high settings for games released after 2007 unless the games have low sys requirements and can be played on 7600GT too. So a person upgrading from 7600GT will be wasting money for less than 5 games. Also keeping in mind that directx 10 hasnt matured, 10.1 being released .. its not fully directx 10 capable. 7600GT on the other hand is fully directx 9 compliant upto 9.0c. Its similiar situation for person upgrading from 6600GT to 8600gt although to a less extent. Always wait for the new versions of DirectX to be complete and the number of [emphasise]new[/emphasise] games (games that can't be played on current card but can be played on new card + new games coming out which can be played on new card) to be large enough to worth the money and keep you entertained till next upgrade (around 3 years). Then buy the graphics card and play at highest settings.
Also, many times the difference between high and very high settings is minute. Even now most of the game engines are not capable of using highest/high texture quality or lighting to make improvement in image quality over high/medium but do make difference fps. But there is significant drop in image quality when going from high/medium to medium/low.
Resolutions should be defined by the size of monitor. Anything more than 1024*768 will not be singificantly better on 17" CRT but will cause fps issues and refresh rate problems. On 17" LCD 1440 is not significantly better than 1280.
Regarding monitor size etc. While PC gaming I am sitting so close that if I had huge screens like 32", a lot of the HUD would be out of my field of vision causing neck pains etc. So 17" is enough for 4:3 aspect ratio and 19" enough for widescreen (not sure yet). I have the perferct ergonomic setup of my computer. Hence, I can play even 16hours per day on holidays without issues. I cannot do that with large screens and I hate refresh rate of TVs (I hate PS2 and XBox displays because of this). Also an ergonomic setup for playing will be bad for TV watching from far.
Regarding other hardware parts.. people are wasting money here too. All the games that can be played on 7600Gt can be played whether its DDR2 266 Mhz (my config) or DDR2 800 MHz ( considered vfm by some) or if I have oldest dual core Pentium D 820 (my config) or E6850 ( best core 2 duo).


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 24, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity,which HDTV do you have? or are you playing via those VGA cables connected to your monitor?


 I've got a Samsung 720p HDTV but the Xbox 360 and PS3 both are capable of outputting at upto 1080p .

I use *Component cables* for my Connection .



			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> Tell me a few games which are very nice and are not available for PC.. I am asking because I genuinely want to know.



Well here you go :

1) Resident Evil Series (1,2,Code Veronica , 3 , 4) (4 was ported to PC but gameplay is much better on Console )

2) Dead or Alive Series (1,2,3,4)

3) Sonic Series

4) Burnout Series (1,2,Takedown,Revenge,Dominator,Paradise)

5) Ninja Gaiden Series

6) Tekken Series

7) Halo Trilogy (Consoles got it much earlier)

8] Virtua Fighter Series

9) Gears of War(we got it one year earlier)

10) God of War Seires

i could go on and on about games that are Only Available on Consoles ond which are considered gaming classics .



			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> I will play crysis with my next upgrade expected to be sept 08. Also buying graphics cards at the right time is also important.


 So you mean to say you will play a game that is released today 1-2  Years Later and that too after spending so much time and money on just buying a GFX card . Cmon man games are for enjoying , wat's the fun if you spend som much time optimizing ur system .

Also , you can exchange games with your friends 5-6 of my friends have Xbox 360 so each person has 2-3 games and we all exchange with each other n play .

For me i've only bought Dead Or Alive 4 and Burnout Revenge but have completed more than 15 Xbox 360 games(since oct 07) .

@adithyagenius , also PC's cn never match the ease of use of a Console , Just put in a game disc and start playing , no installing , driver updating , etc etc .. Just pure gaming fun , because after all games are meant to be enjoyed .


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 24, 2007)

FYI those who think xbox360\ps3 su*ks with CRT tv--i have a Sony 21' non flat tv.probably kv2197.i dont have any complaints regarding how games run on it.i also have a Samsung 720p and graphics dont make that much difference like you ppl hype it.all u need is a good tv.and in case of PC's the same is with monitors.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 24, 2007)

Yup , these ppl have forgot the Gaming aspect of gaming and are arguing on everything else . 

There's more to gaming than just graphics , games like Mario , Sonic attract players even today .


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

^I wouldn't deny the fact that games are games & you should just have fun playing them.But there is a huge difference between playing mario & playing Gears of War.Mario was made to be played on it's 8-bit glory with any regular TV as it wasn't anything special in terms of graphics.But high definitions consoles main purpose is to output High def resolutions which can only be achieved on an HDTV.Sure it can play on a CRT but I won't restrict it's powers to what the machine is actually capable of doing.



> FYI those who think xbox360\ps3 su*ks with CRT tv--i have a Sony 21' non flat tv.probably kv2197.i dont have any complaints regarding how games run on it.i also have a Samsung 720p and graphics dont make that much difference like you ppl hype it


ROTFL! It makes the difference of earth & the moon when you are comparing both of them.I wouldn't say CRT display sucks but once you switch to HD resolutions you would never feel like going back to SDTV.And don't even tell me you didn't notice any difference with the graphic quality in HDTV & between your 21 inch CRT.

To put it in a better way I have a HD-DVD(720p) rip of Spiderman 3 & an original DVD for Spiderman 3.When I saw both of them,I didn't feel like even watching anything below 1280x720 resolution.All those HQ dvd rips in my collection felt pale in front of this HD-DVD rip.Thats how beautiful it is.

So it's not like we won't enjoy gaming on a regular TV but it's what you have paid for & you ought to get the full potential of out it.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 25, 2007)

Agreed that the X360 and PS3 are supposed to look great and do look great on a HDTV, but he does have a point. There really is nothing wrong with using them on a CRT.... they still look great... 

And I totally agree that people focus too much on the graphics of the game. Half of my friends played prey only because the graphics were nice even though the gameplay was broken. The gameplay is what matters people! 
And hey, consoles rock on gameplay and immersivity. atleast in everything except FPS and RTS which were made to be played with controllers. And with the PS3 supporting KB+Mouse and the X360 probably gonna do it soon, this is set to change. 

Accordin to me , the Wii represents gaming in it's true form. Average graphics but gameplay and immersivity that refuse to be beaten.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 25, 2007)

^ in other words---A pc game can't be enjoyed fully unless u have a 8800GTX or 2,a quad,4gb ram and a  more than 21'' widescreen monitor..sice ''u wont restrict its powers''????

BTW i said there was a difference in CRT and HD but it cant be a major point in choosing between PC or a console.since not everyone can buy that rig and the same is with a good hdtv.at least first try using a good crt tv like that one.what i want to say is if u have a good crt tv u need not spend money on a hdtv right now.instead play on a crt and save money and get a better hdtv next yr when newer models come and prices fall.

hey i know we can pair a *USB* keyboard with xbox 360 but i have not tried it since i have PS/2.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> ^ in other words---A pc game can't be enjoyed fully unless u have a 8800GTX or 2,a quad,4gb ram and a  more than 21'' widescreen monitor..sice ''u wont restrict its powers''????


You need to think before you actually say something.When I said restrict it's powers I was refering to the whole console's potential being capped with that CRT TV.Thats not something which I have paid for the console as I need it to display those 1080i output or at the very least the 720p one.With my current rig I have paid I don't tap it's potential due to any silly monitor resolution restriction but get a full 1280x1024 resolution with most games(except Crysis) & still get good playable frame rates.So if you are talking in terms of just playing the game then heck even a 14 inch CRT could run a Xbox 360 game but would you seriosuly be able to enjoy on it? If you do be my guest but if I ever get one then it's going to be paired only with an HDTV.Call me too nit-picky but that's how I prefer it.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 25, 2007)

yeah u r right but for those who cant afford that and still want to play games?now for 24000bucks u wont get a high end pc right?so whats the option left?ps2\ps3\360\wii.or get a pc that plays games at 800*600.and wont next year's games demand more than what u have in  pc?that never happens with any console be it PS1 or nintendo ds.
even i dont play games on crt.i did that just to see how games look and trust me they look good enough to be played though FOR THOSE WHO CAN BUY HDTV THEY SHOULD BUY.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

^That's ok I understand your point of view too.Actually the thing is everyone has different way of seeing things.In my case,I have seen the 360 run on a 29inch TV which looks good no doubt but after watching it on a 32inch & 40 inch HDTV nothing comes close to it.Believe me thats what I made up my mind for once I saw the quality on HDTV & believe me I would vouch for the smooth gameplay on console any day compared to a PC.I would be planning to buy a PS3 later on in 2008 perhaps why the prices fall for both the console & the HDTV & would check for the titles to expand as well.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 25, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> 1.Consoles are too expensive? The HDTV is something you are going to buy sooner or later anyway. It is an investment. The PS3 and X360 can be had for the price of a high end GPU.


 
R U going to use the HDTV for games only? None of the TV Feeds in india whether cable TV or DishTV are HD compliant.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

^I think he forgot to mention 'furture investment'.But anyways you can use it to play Blu Ray movie titles if you have a PS3.Albeit much costlier right now it would become a standard later on.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 25, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> ^I think he forgot to mention 'furture investment'.But anyways you can use it to play Blu Ray movie titles if you have a PS3.Albeit much costlier right now it would become a standard later on.


 
Or HD DVD, both are almost same....


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

Exactly.Provided MS starts bundling HD DVD drives with the console & not sell it as a separate add-on accessory.This would be much more beneficial as PS3 is now matching the retail price point of the Xbox 360.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 25, 2007)

yeah that should be done and the accesories should be a lot cheaper than their current price.


----------



## krates (Dec 25, 2007)

pc gaming is just worthless and if u buy a ps2 or xbox you will be in much more advantage then you can even think of


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 25, 2007)

allwyndlima said:
			
		

> ^I think he forgot to mention 'furture investment'.But anyways you can use it to play Blu Ray movie titles if you have a PS3.Albeit much costlier right now it would become a standard later on.



yup. future inverstment is what i meant.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 25, 2007)

nyways even if you buy a 32" HDTV it's agood investment coz u can use ur PS3/360 to watch HD Content . i Personally watch movies(HD-DVD Rips , 8GB) using my 360 only coz watching it on a big screen is much enjoyable than a monitor .

Plus , i have all my dad's Classic Songs ripped onto my 360 HDD and he uses it to play his songs(using the bundled remote) . If space falls short , then i'll attach a 120 gig External HDD via USB n that'll work fine so no probs of space with 360 too , you can use internal hdd to save games and use external hdd to store everything else .


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

^which model do you have Zeeshan? Cause most of the HDTV's I know in the budget range say they can take 1080p signal inputs but actual resolution stands at 1366x768 which means it's downscalaing all the HD signals.Neverthless it still look so bloody beautiful.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 25, 2007)

Mine's a 720p HDTV , will see n tell ya model .

Tt does not claim to support 1080p . It _only supports 720p_ n if I set my 360 to _1080p it does not work_ . But yes , 720p is still much better than DVD res and i'm satisfied with it.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 25, 2007)

it might be Samsung HPT4254.its 42'' 720p.i have it.probably its the only 720p by samsung


----------



## sabret00the (Dec 25, 2007)

1st of all very good thread...it is indeed a debatable question....but the tread name is misleading though



			
				ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Has it?
> 
> Every two months there is a brand new piece of hardware that is released without which it is not possible to play games with all their glory.
> 
> For Example, i spent around 27,000 on a system with a core 2 duo E6550 and nVidia 8600 GT. And now, less than a month later i find it impossible to play the latest games at even mildly high settings with my PC. I will eventually be forced to upgrade to a penryn and series 9 GPU, costing me another bomb.


 
Well my dear friend that is PC gaming....as per Dr. Moore's law technology doubles itself in approximately 18 months...well in my case I spent close to 70K in March to build my new system...but going by the latest products in the market my system is obsolete but is it?



> I feel like an idiot now, when i realize that i got have go an Xbox 360 premium for as low as Rs. 20,000. This would surely play every game for the next two years atleast at blistering frame rates, even if they don't look as good as their PC counterparts. But atleast i am assured that whatevet game i pick up for my console will work. Period.


 
No you dont...dont have to feel like an idiot...companies have to keep churning out new products to cut a niche in the competitive hardware industry...well looking from a macro perspective you might not get the clear picture but at a more micro level I say look around....how many of your neighbours do think really have a system like yours...believe me...not many...that's called socio economic trend...for eg. there are different kind of cars on the highway but few of them are sportcars...in otherwise most of the cars on the highway are just commuters...hence you would find slow moving traffic...Coming back to the point Companies know this...they will offer you all hardware that you want offcourse backed by your affordability...but as you said most people wont spend a lot of money upgrading systems continuously they *minimum requirement *to play most of the PC games will always remain surprisingly low...but then you dont expect to drive a 1942 model car on the freeway do you...I mean you have to have a decent config...get it...

[Qoute]Mordern consoles are really pushing hardware to the limit. And the Xbox 360 and particularly the PS3 are far more powerful than most systems out there that cost 4-5 times as much, and the resolution of games they output is no longer a crappy 640x480, its full glorious HD. And lets admit it , it is definetly more fun playing action, racing and adventure games with a remote control as compared to the keyboard. Sure RTSs and FPSs need a mouse and kb, but the PS3 does support them, and I am willing to bet that the Xbox 360 soon will.And they no longer keep you away from your music. The Xbox 360 and the PS3 have fantastic Media Center Capabilities. And both allow you to replace in game music with your music. And considering that both have good capacity hard disks even those with very large music collections will not be disappointed. [/Quote]

Dedicated and standalone are the words that describe consoles...*no doubt *they are nice sounding words but I somehow hate these words...nothing beats the pleasure of using a powerful desktop....I'am a little old school type..



> Also, there is the obvious advantage of not having to stick to your crappy 19" monitor and cheap 2.0 speakers and being able to enjoy a game on a massive TV with your 5.1 surround sound home theater. Of course, you might be among those exceptional few who have a 5.1 speaker set and a 23" monitor on your desks. But almost everyone has a 31" CTV at the very least.


 
Well you got a point there...but hey blame the Indian Government's pricing and duty policies for that...moreover any product tends to become cheaper backed by it's demand...if its highselling then its oughta be cheaper and vice versa...



> The most shocking part is that game developers are gradually moving to consoles. More and more console games are being released that are not available for PC. And the number of games that are PC-exclusive are decreasing as games developers are embracing consoles. A shining example would be UT3, which is the first UT ever slated to be released on a console and PC simultaneously.


 
I hate UT so I'am spared for now atleast 



> Also, i'm sure most gamers will agree that they spend almost equal amounts of time optimising their PCs and playing games. When you buy a console, you know that it's already optimised and whatever games you buy will be optimised for that console. So you can actually get down to playing some games without having to bother about how many FPS you are getting, because with a console you know that number will always be 60 FPS.


 
No not really...dont spend a lot of time on optimising my pc...one thing that I do is actually downloading all kinds of automatic updates...the PC does it for me....



> I am by no means a PC-hater or console Fanboy. I enjoy gaming on PCs , but am forced to say that it has indeed become a meaningless way to game.


 
Never really felt interested in the concept of console gaming...lucky me...


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 25, 2007)

Then you really should try console gaming for once , be it on a PS2/Xbox 360/PS3 but experience console gaming for some time and you'll never feel like coming back .

The best part , you don't have to sit there for half-an-hour just to install a game . just put in the disc n start playin that's what pleases me the most .


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

Half an hour? Nah barely takes 10-12 mins depending on the game.The last game that took me half an hour or more like close to 40 mins was Gear of War which was one of the most pathetic & longest installations ever in the history of gaming.The decompressing process took roughly upto 20 mins.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 25, 2007)

decompressing??i think its installation is similar to Halo 2 which installs as u play the game.


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 25, 2007)

Yea the same sh*t based properitary installer which MS has been smitten by for their GFW products.It's really very frustrating if you ask me.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 25, 2007)

Installer was Always propreitary mate . Most games use MSI installer which was developed by MS for windows ^_^


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 25, 2007)

sabret00the said:
			
		

> 1st of all very good thread...it is indeed a debatable question....but the tread name is misleading though
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great post, with some very good points. 

However, i don't agree with most of them. 

You say that it is natural for computers to evolve. This is exactly my point. We have come to the point where they are evolving at such an alarming pace that attempting to keep up with them is a grave mistake. You say that min. req. will always stay really low. You would be surprised with how many of my friends who have lower configs cannot even play the latest games. And let's face it, there are very few gamers out there who wouldn't mind turning off all the settings or setting them to min. and playing on a res of 800x600. 

You say you spent 70k on a pc, and already find it obsolete. If you did send 70k on it, you should be able to atleast play all games on it at min. settings for about 1-2 yrs..... but are you honestly telling me you will not upgrade it when games refuse to work at 1024x768 at medium settings? 

That is where the beauty of consoles lies. Games will always look good on them. And when they cease to look good [which will be no less than 3-4 years as history has shown us] there will be a new console to replace it. Imagine, spending just 20-30k once in 4 years to get you gaming fix. Ahh.. bliss. Compare that to PC gaming and imagine how much you would have spent in 4 years to play all the latest games at a decent res and decent settings. 

Why you hate dedicated is beyond me. No HAL, no Installation , all benefits! 

You say you hate UT.... ok.... but my point was to prove that PC games are eventually appearing on, if not competely shifting to consoles. However, the opposite happening is very rare. Have you played God of War? It is easily the best action game I have ever played, and it only comes on PS2. Pretty soon almost every PC game will be on the console , but the reverse will be completely false. 

This is due to a very simple reason. The console gaming population is steadily increasing. and Game Devs are finding it harder and harder to ignore consoles. 

It's nice to see that you do not optimise your PC. SO you would say you are the no-nonsense kinda guy who prefers to put a game in and start playing wothout all tham optimising and stuff. Again, consoles shine here. The games are optimised already to the max and hey, no installation.


----------



## sabret00the (Dec 26, 2007)

^^^ thanks a lot for that detailed answer dude...well let me try to put it from a different perspective...1st of all I'am completely alien to consoles so it would be complete sin for me to rubbish them..so I would steer clear of that..Now see what I meant to say is that even I'am fed up of this rat race...as we speak there is someone trying to peddle some quadcore or octacore...or some PCI-E 2.0...or some DDR3 somewhere trying to take phase out what we know today as cutting edge computing...The worst hit is the GPU industry...they evolve so fast that the rest of the hardware fail to keep face...

Now my point is so what can we do about this....well nothing much...PCs are not always bought for gaming...yes I certainly built my RIG as a gaming system but then again I also need it for other stuff...all the stuff that computers can do...thats the reason why I would bet my money on a PC and not spend the same on a console. Agreed you will never get the same performance and quality as a standalone dedicated device but that's where I would strike a balance by choosing a PC and making the compromise with quality and performance....a PC would definitely be a lot more VFM...

But this point I will certainly agree that a 5mp Mobile camera will never even be close to a 5mp prosumer digital cam...


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> You say you hate UT.... ok.... but my point was to prove that PC games are eventually appearing on, if not competely shifting to consoles. However, the opposite happening is very rare. Have you played God of War? It is easily the best action game I have ever played, and it only comes on PS2. Pretty soon almost every PC game will be on the console , but the reverse will be completely false.


Not entirely true.God of War is developed by SCE & hence would directly mean no PC port being made.Thats how bad Sony wants their game to remain exclusive.If you take games like Bungie's Halo series,Epic's Gears of War (which mind you was 360's first hit game),Capcom's Lost Planet & some others which I can't recollect for the time being had all been boasted as Xbox 360/Xbox exclusive & then slowly made their way onto PC.So it's not only the PC games which are migrating onto Console but console 'exclusives' are slowly making their way on PC too.Apart from Sony exclusives I see very rare titles which would not come up on the PC.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

I said the opposite happening is very rare... and i said rare because of Gears of War, halo etc.... however what about GTA, Rainbox Six, UT, Prey, Bioshock, Medal of Honor etc.... these were all PC games that over time shifted over to consoles. I'm sure you will agree that it is a rare thing to see a console game ported over to PC, but quite common to see PC games ported over to consoles.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 26, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Installer was Always propreitary mate . Most games use MSI installer which was developed by MS for windows ^_^


some downloadables use NSIS


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 26, 2007)

well u guys took it wrong i think.i was saying that the installer has 2 options.one to install the game while u play.other to install full game at once which does not take more than 10 minutes with *Halo 2* on vista.there's nothing like uncompressing stuff.i was asking if Gears of war installation is the same?i think it is.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

No, the Gears of War install is genuinely long. And it's not like you play the game at the same time....


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> I said the opposite happening is very rare... and i said rare because of Gears of War, halo etc.... however what about GTA, Rainbox Six, UT, Prey, Bioshock, Medal of Honor etc.... these were all PC games that over time shifted over to consoles. I'm sure you will agree that it is a rare thing to see a console game ported over to PC, but quite common to see PC games ported over to consoles.


Medal of Honor titles had been there for Playstation 2 earlier as well.Bioshock & P.R.E.Y were not ports but they were multi platform right from the begining.In fact GTA San Andreas was touted to be a PS2 exclusive for a long time after it's release but Rockstar realising the PC demand had eventually ported the game over.

@nish: Gears of war has heavy texture compression based installer.Once it installs the basic files it starts to uncompress the remaining which takes hell a lot of time.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

allwyndlima, i said these were shifted over time. I'm sure you agree that GTA 1 & 2 were only for PC, but the series eventually shifted to consoles. Same goes for all the others. I wasn't being specific in saying which got ported when, i just was trying to make everyone realize the trend game devs are following now.


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 26, 2007)

Q. Has PC gaming become pointless?

A. Nope, as long as there's the modders community

on consoles, the game's are like "use & throw".

e.g. GTA SA.
play it on PS2/Xbox, after a while it gets boring, same cars, same map...
on PC - you can install a mission mod/ car mod/ map mod (vice city) , play online 'MP'...

sales of gta sa
PC=PS2+Xbox 

gta sa for pc sold more than gta sa for PS2 & xBox combined.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 26, 2007)

That's only one side of the coin Dude , PC has very such killer hits . 

Compare that to Halo 3 this year then which broke ALL game sales records ever set , it's sales besides being an exclusive were greater than of any game till date .

Consoles get a new classic every month , PC's get it once every 6 months .

And for your part of Console games being use and throw , well i think you've never played on Xbox Live , i never get bored of playing Burnout Revenge or DOA4 online


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Well here you go :
> 
> 1) Resident Evil Series (1,2,Code Veronica , 3 , 4) (4 was ported to PC but gameplay is much better on Console )
> 
> ...



Out of all the games you mentioned, I am somewhat interested in god of war. I only know its an RPG and I heard it has lots of button mashing which I dont like. Other games are beat em up type and can't keep me playing for more than 15 mins. MGS is good because of its story line but I don't like the gameplay that much. I played PC versions of MGS and the new one is coming out on PC too. I used trainer to just finish the game for story. Compare the console games to singleplayer PC games like half life, deus ex, system shock, farcry, starcraft, warcraft, diablo  series. there is obvious difference between console and PC games. I hate console games because they look like evolved 8-bit games to me - tekken, doa, mario, sonic, DMC ( I like their Rajni kant unrealism videos). Consoles games might be fun to you, but very boring to me.

You seem to have quoted crysis. Crysis is anyway not on consoles. They are too resource hungry to come on consoles at that quality. I am not bothered if I play it late because I am being entertained by orange box (finished it), perseus mandate , hellgate london, overlord and lot more games that I have finished partially. I have yet to even play gears of war and I expect it to run at highest settings. I am skeptical about its immersion, it coming from consoles.

Regarding installs, I dont care because, it never adds to my wait time. I install game in background while I am doing some other work just like raring backups. I would prefer installations because I like to play multiple games through out the day without changing discs. I would rather double click desktop shortcuts. Regarding optimising and patching. Are you saying that you won't optimise and update your windows to your needs if you have console? I optimise every semsester and it doesnt take more than 15 mins, even if i am not going to play games on that pc. There are a lot of optimisations out there, that are simply useless and others create illusion of improvement although fps remains same. Ex: disabling a lot of services from black viper's guide, shifting swap file to different partition (this actually slows it down) and some lame registry tweaks. I only optmise accessibility settings (holding shift key causes some feature to be enabled) just for the sake of gaming.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 26, 2007)

well all games produced for PC by Konami\Capcom like Pro Evo Soccer or Resident evil dont look good on a PC.i've been observing that since PS1.

and as far as PC optimisation is concerned most of the games (well most..) include everything u need to run them.any other updates that are made are security updates or just graphic card drivers and i dont think this means that ppl without internet cant play games on a PC the way they are meant to be played on their configuration.i never optimised my PC to run games.its just install and run.after all windows vista is intelligent enough to make all the security updates itself 

still i'd stick to console as long as i can and as long as i keep getting PC games on 360


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> Other games are beat em up type and can't keep me playing for more than 15 mins.


 You seem not to have ever heard or played the Resident Evil series . They're one of the most refined and challenging games ever made and you have put in more brain to work through Resident Evil than mashing buttons .

I promise Anyone's who's played Burnout even once gets addited to it's gameplay and it's not am beat-em-up .

Dead or Alive is a button mashing 3D Fighter for beginners . But lask any DOA Expert n you'l know that they just use well-timed and strategic stroked , not just mashing . But yeah button mashing helps too coz it's easy for Beginners to hook up to the game easily and they can keep improving as they discover the game . ( I n my frnd , both DOA fanatics have been playing DOA since DOA 2[Dreamcast] and now our matles last an average of greater than 10 minutes coz we use tricky moves and absolutely no button mashing )


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> You seem not to have ever heard or played the Resident Evil series . They're one of the most refined and challenging games ever made and you have put in more brain to work through Resident Evil than mashing buttons .
> 
> I promise Anyone's who's played Burnout even once gets addited to it's gameplay and it's not am beat-em-up .
> 
> Dead or Alive is a button mashing 3D Fighter for beginners . But lask any DOA Expert n you'l know that they just use well-timed and strategic stroked , not just mashing . But yeah button mashing helps too coz it's easy for Beginners to hook up to the game easily and they can keep improving as they discover the game . ( I n my frnd , both DOA fanatics have been playing DOA since DOA 2[Dreamcast] and now our matles last an average of greater than 10 minutes coz we use tricky moves and absolutely no button mashing )



You got me wrong man. I wasn't referring to lameness of button mashing. I was talking about ergonomics and repeatitive stress injury. I play for hours and hours and I can't afford button mashing. One reason I am not playing diablo 1 ( it doesnt have hold left mouse button for auto attacking). I am not saying beat em up games don't have strategy and expertise. I am referring to what PC gamers want. Beat em up games are like time-pass for us when there is very short time. I want awesome story (deus ex, blizzard games) , immersion (half life, system shock) and adrenaline gunfights (fear , cod4 & farcry) which I can play for few hours forgetting about real world and my surroundings and all the classes I have attended and the tests I have to write in next few days. You have to understand the difference between hardcore gamer and casual gamer. Hardcore gamer's main hobby is gaming whereas for casual gamers its time-pass and lower in the list of hobbies. Hardcore gamers like me won't be satisfied by beat-em ups and demolition derbies only. I enjoyed carmageddon and oni a lot. PC does provide enough titles for time pass. Consoles on the other hand are more oriented to casual gamers. There is also the matter of taste. Console seem to more anime'ish with either high pitched girl voices for laidies (eternal sonata) or kiddish anime (final fantasy) for dragonball z fan type audience or way too cool chars with voice modulators in place of voice box ( MGS). I hate them in the descending order. I cannot take over the top, rajni kant action for too long like DMC series. Of course, there are few console game titles that would interest people like me, but they very few compared to PC. Also just look at nominees for gamespot 2007 awards on the on the spot 20/12/07. There is clearly a difference in the types of games.

@everyone posting here.
 I noticed something
When you people are giving advantages and counters to disavantages, you are ganging the advantages and counters of all the consoles. Please stick to one console. If I get money to buy console right now, it would xbox360 due to the number and type of titles. It has the best titles IMO. So upgradability of hard-disks in PS3 for large music collection is pointless. Unless you are talking of buying both PS3 and XBox360 which means double expenditure, double the maintainence and adjusting wires and ergonomics every time I play title of other console. In that case its better to have a PC and a single console.
Talking about exclusives, each console has exclusives. Wii has wii sports and wii games satisfy wii audience but for me it would only be time pass. PS3 has heavenly sword, and Xbox has its own. there are certain exclusives that no longer remained exlusive like GTA SA, GOW and both I liked on PC more due to graphics and mouse aiming. These games are the few games which are wanted by all the audience. PC has its exclusives like all blizzard games and crtek games. yeah, yeah, console is getting keyboard and mouse but still blizzard is not releasing games for console. No starcraft 2 for console. Once , the best RTS, FPS games and RPG games start appearing on consoles, they I would shift to consoles without hesitation. Also, dip in PC gaming was due to vista, DX10 and all the issues those two created. this is just the calm before the storm.
Retor compatibility is another issue. Xbox 360 doesnn't have as many titles as PS because its new. PS3 is unable to play PS2 and PS1 games properly. I can play all old PC games thanks to compatiblity patches, compatibility mode, dosbox, grim etc. Only slave zero I was unable to play on XP. But then I didn't ahve internet to check for updates.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 26, 2007)

Dude wouldn't you call Resident Evil , Call of Duty 4 , Bioshock , Halo 3 Immersive . 

Specially Resident Evil man , story is just plain awesome and you'll forget about the real world once you start playing it . Just try Resident Evil:Code Veronica once .

ANd as for a Hardcore Gamer , well i guess you can't call yourself a hardcore games if you haven't even experienced consoles yet . There's a whole new gaming world waiting out there for you just give it a try before you term it as trash .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Dude wouldn't you call Resident Evil , Call of Duty 4 , Bioshock , Halo 3 Immersive .
> 
> Specially Resident Evil man , story is just plain awesome and you'll forget about the real world once you start playing it . Just try Resident Evil:Code Veronica once .
> 
> ANd as for a Hardcore Gamer , well i guess you can't call yourself a hardcore games if you haven't even experienced consoles yet . There's a whole new gaming world waiting out there for you just give it a try before you term it as trash .



Dude bioshock is made by PC game developer. He just happened to release on consoles for increase in market share just like some console games are released on pc. So obviously it runs on PC. you should also be knowing COD , COD united offensive COD2 and COD 4 are pc games. I have already finished COD, COD UO, COD2 and 1st lvl of COD 4. I have only played bioshock demo till now but will soon play that too. right now busy with hellgate london, perseus mandate and overlord.
I hate halo 1 and halo 2 due to its bad gun mechanics, bullet hit sounds, recoil emulation etc which totally destroys immersion. I don't know if halo 3 is improved but I wouldn't play it because I don't want to start from the middle of the story. I would rather play other FPS games.

Like I said one good game series wont make me buy console and abandon 100 good game series on other computer. I accept my interaction with consoles is very little. My interaction with console games have been in simlim square singapore.I just used to play for half an hour in each shop's  "try out " consoles to see different games. I didn't enjoy them as much as PC games. I ended up suffering from head-ache due refresh rates of TV.  I also played some games in my friends house but few times but ditched em for Table tennis within 15 mins.

I am Hardcore PC gamer. I forgot to mention "PC" because I am generally interacting with PC gamers. Hardcore PC gamers and hardcore console gamers have different needs. Hence type of games influence the choice of platform a lot. Game developers of each platform have different philosophy. I am not saying PC games are better than console. I am saying, people like me will like PC games a lot more. As long as PC gamers like me exist, PC gaming will live. Results of poll right now indicate that too. The only game I am very curious to try out is burnout series.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

Okay, adityagenius, it's coming to the point where you are really getting silly. You can really be called a fanboy right now. 

First off, since you do not have experience with a console, nothing really gives you the right to degrade them by calling them "glorified 8-bits". Console gaming has evolved to the point where it can satisfy just about any type of gamer. You are referring to the false belief that consoles were made only for kiddies and only nerds should use PCs. Even console gamers can be hardcore gamers. I don't see a casual gamer spending days on finishing RE4 or God of War.... 

You said you had played consoles for 15 mins and you got a headache due to the refresh rates of the TV???? This I find absolute fanboyism. BTW, most TVs have 60hz refresh rate..... So are you saying that you never watch TV? If your claim was true then TVs would never be sold. 

You said you like to play several games without changing discs. PLEASE pause for a moment and listen to how absolutely pointless and stupid this sounds. So you'd rather let a game occupy 5-6 Gigs on your HDD and sit through installs rather than get up,and put a disc into a console? 

You also said that "tweaking" is a fake and creats "illusions" of higher framrates? Why you say this is beyond me.... I find it pretty hard to believe that you don't tweak considering your user title "I WANT MORE FPS" unless you are the kind of person who just puts up a title without giving it an iota of thought.



> Dude bioshock is made by PC game developer. He just happened to release on consoles for increase in market share just like some console games are released on pc.


This is exactly what I am trying to say. PC games are appearing more and more on consoles, making it pointless to game on PCs.... people are much better off buying a basic PC for word processing, internet etc... and getting a good console for gaming..

off-topic -> Zeeshan, totally agreed on RE4! Do you play mercenaries?


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 26, 2007)

how often do u buy games just because of developer's image?isn't it bcoz of the gameplay and nice reviews of the game?


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

Is that directed to me? Then the answer is never. I buy my buying decision solely on reviews.... i couldn't care less who the developer is... coz every deveeloper has hits and flops.


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Okay, adityagenius, it's coming to the point where you are really getting silly. You can really be called a fanboy right now.


you are the fanboy, since you got angry when I didn't agree with your " PC is pointless" statement. But I never said consoles are pointless. I always maintained that there are poeple for whome console is better.



> First off, since you do not have experience with a console, nothing really gives you the right to degrade them by calling them "glorified 8-bits". Console gaming has evolved to the point where it can satisfy just about any type of gamer. You are referring to the false belief that consoles were made only for kiddies and only nerds should use PCs. Even console gamers can be hardcore gamers. I don't see a casual gamer spending days on finishing RE4 or God of War....


I am not referring to false beliefs. Most of the population out there dont have indepth knowledge of computers to keep them at peek performance and choose the right hardware and save money. that why they go to consoles. so, more geeks use PC than consoles. I am not talking about expertise and how long people play. I am talking of types of games coming out. I agree , consoles can run games of all types but unfortunately there are few games of PC gamer type released or being developed. As I already mentioned many times blizzard and crytek is yet to make console games.  I also know that there are hardcore console gamers. I have seen southpark episode of guitar queer-o and read guides of games for consoles.



> You said you had played consoles for 15 mins and you got a headache due to the refresh rates of the TV???? This I find absolute fanboyism. BTW, most TVs have 60hz refresh rate..... So are you saying that you never watch TV? If your claim was true then TVs would never be sold.
> 
> 
> > Effect of refresh rates is higher when you are sitting close to TV and watching it for many hours. this is exactly what I was doing while playing on consoles. I watch TV from far away for not more than 3 hours. I did't watch TV for more than 10 hours in total in last 3 years. But what does it have to do with games.
> ...


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

Wow..... you ARE completely ignorant aren't you..... 

Ahem.. so you are saying that "my eyes start hurting while playing console games" is a valid point? How ? And you have not seen more than 10 hours of tv in the past 3 years???? Hands up all those who believe this.... 

You say that few PC-type games are released on consoles. have you personally owned a console? If not then i don't believe you would be familiar with the games released for consoles. So i won't even bother stating examples to prove you wrong. 

And like i've already stated before in this thread, Console games being shifted to PCs is a lot more rare than the inverse. 

And the nerve of you calling me a fanboy. I happen to be an avid PC and Console gamer, who has finally realized why consoles are indeed better. 

The fact is that subconsciously you are automatically supporting your purchase decision. I'm sure that instead of a PC you owned a console, your posts would look a lot more different.

And no, I am not taking this personally. I was merely using that tone of writing to emphasize my points.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Is that directed to me?


 nope.




			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> Most of the population out there dont have indepth knowledge of computers to keep them at peek performance and choose the right hardware and save money. that why they go to consoles. so, more geeks use PC than consoles


u gotta be kidding me.and if i m not wrong most of kids ask their parents to buy a pc.now only exceptional kids are geeks and not everyone.there are a very few ppl who ask their parents for a console and as said earlier by a member-its easier to ask parents for a pc than a console.

also this thread is about gaming which means plain fun and nothing more than that.no experience needed i suppose.even a 4yr old can play on any console or PC.


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Refresh rates of TV and the image quality were the main reasons I didn't purchase xbox or PS 2 in singapore.

I don't have familiarity. But I am getting a very good over-all idea from all the "on the spot" videos of gamespot and stuff i saw from youtube. Liking the type of game is personal taste and not logic.

I can't subconsciously supporting purchase decisions since i haven't purchased anything recently. I am going to purchase in sug-sept 08 and I always do  weigh titles and cost before choosing gaming hardware for computer or console. I have Rs 1,33,000 from scholarship (hopefully if I continue to top, right now have only Rs 60k). If I feel I made a bad decision and see awesome games , I will pour my money to rectify my decision because of addiction. Addiction >>> Ego.
Last time I was choosing between 7600gt and ps2, 7600gt won. Right now it looks like PC has still got the gaming unless GTA 4 not going PC is confirmed. that game is enough to sway my decision.



			
				nish_higher said:
			
		

> nope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True in India. But the people who have choice...


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 26, 2007)

well personally for me, i get bored if i play a game 3+ times, like NFS PU, MW.

but the modders community kill that boredom by releasing new car mods, like Enzo Ferrari, Buggatti Veyron...

online play is always fun.  be it on console or pc

jus a doubt, is XBoX live free?


Consoles ARE good, but gaming on PC is far more cheaper. (games are cheap, not talking of top-end gfx.card/pc, pc=multi purpose...).


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

s18000rpm said:
			
		

> well personally for me, i get bored if i play a game 3+ times, like NFS PU, MW.
> 
> but the modders community kill that boredom by releasing new car mods, like Enzo Ferrari, Buggatti Veyron...
> 
> ...



my friend told me xbox live not free.
Is NFS worth playing after installing new cars. I got bored in NFS MW by the time I reached blacklist 4. This happened twice.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 26, 2007)

Nope Xbox Live is not free but it's worth the Money .

Subscription costs Rs 2k for a Year allowing you to play games,Voice chat n Messenging .

You can also opt for the free version of Xbox Live(i.i. Silver) which does not include multiplayer support . But you get free multiplayer on weekends 

On a Quality/Price scale consoles win hands down . The Xbox 360 Core costs Rs 15k Now , that too with capability of supporting games at 1920 x 1080 at 60 FPS . that's much better than what you will be able to run even in a 60k Gaming PC .

@adithyagenius , bu your statement of "PC Type games" and "Console type games" , could you list some games that fit your category of only "PC Type Games"(possibly of this year and last year only) . 

My second question , will you be able to play all the latest games on your PC at the setings mentioned above ? If not then you can buy a Good Performance PC + Console that will cost the same as a Gaming PC ( coz latest GFX cards only cost 15k ) that will play all the latest games .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Nope Xbox Live is not free but it's worth the Money .
> 
> Subscription costs Rs 2k for a Year allowing you to play games,Voice chat n Messenging .
> 
> ...




Why do you want to limit it to last 2 years only. it takes away the advantage of the number of game titles PC has compared to Xbox360, one main reason to remain with PC. I have yet to finish some games. Last week I finished Grim Fandango. Lets make, it last 3 years to cover recent trends. HL2 series, FEAR series, Titan Quest, Hellgate London, GTA SA ( I know its console but its PC type and hence sold more on PC + graphics + mouse aiming and not autolocking), Stalker, c&c 3, you get the idea. What is more important than what was released recently is what you can still play - cs series, warcraft series, UT2004, Quake 3 modded . I play them on hostel LAN a lot mainly cs.

Regarding 1920*1080 (which is anyway generally upscaled and not real res), I have 17" CRT. I cannot buy huge HDTV due to cost and wastage (don't have cable tv of dish. noone at home including me watches TV), even if I did I cannot keep it my room or carry it to hostel, even if i take it to hostel, my room mate will fight for the space. Resolution is only increased to reduce boxiness as screen size increase. Also Screen size is used to increase angle subtended at eye. Hence, the distance at which I sit 19" is the best. Anything more will make the image go out of field of vision causing me to keep looking around to keep updated on whats going on in every part of the screen. But I have 17" and I am happy with it. 1024*768 is the optimum res for this display size. No increase in quality when moving to 1280. finally it comes down to what it looks to my eyes. High image quality at optimum resolution on optimum size screen vs high upscaled res on large screen.


What I want most is image quality which depends on texture quality. PC has always been having the highest texture quality. Even Halo series released on PC had higher texture. Remeber after few years after release of PS2 , computer beat PS2 in peformance. with quad cores going cheaper, 2 gb ram becoming standard and card like 8800gt which faster than ps3 (read in article which said its twice as fast), do you expect scpec of xbox360 is enough?

For you console may be better if you buy hd tv. If you got cheap and good ISP which gives low pings on xbox live and have friends online. I got friends on very low ping LAN as well as on WLAN. I cannot have HDTV. I want to play old PC games too. I like immersive FPSs, RPGs and RTS and I am bored of beat-em games and I am not pervert enough for anime women with big boobs which follow different laws of physics to make me play anime games.

Also buying HDTV+console+performance PC is costlier than performance PC + graphics card. Dont say console is only 15k. xbox in hyd is costlier and I would want feature rich xbox360 (with HDMI cable) and it costs 23k inlusive of taxes. Added cost of xbox live and setting up devices to ease switching internet connection and speaker connection everytime I shift from pc to console and vice versa). I am not going to buy expensive console games, neither will I settle to play lame games my only xbox360 owning friend buys.
to conclude...

Poll: Is PC gaming pointless?
answer: no as per results.
Reason: people like me exist who want something console doesnt offer but PC does that exactly.


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 27, 2007)

*WHY PC's are better than consoles...*

a tech person from *GameSpot * tell us

*www.gamespot.com/video/0/6183473/videoplayerpop?&ont_override=13897

[video]



ROFL

Crysis pwns 'em all in gfx.

he says to see gfx. like that, you'll need PS*4* or XBoX *720* 

"PC gaming will always be there on the cutting edge" 8)


----------



## Ethan_Hunt (Dec 27, 2007)

One more thing which I would like to add for PC gaming is the recent trend which has caught up in purchasing games online.Clients like Steam offer legit game purchase over the internet.Allows to you pre-load the game before it's releases & once the game is released officially you can go ahead & play the game on the very same day along with the whole world.I'm not sure about the consoles but I did hear somewhere that you could purchase & download classic titles via Xbox live,but not too sure until someone confirms it.But the point is they wont allow game downloads & thus we would need to wait till the game officially releases out here or get it ordered from an online site & wait till it arrives. 

I personally hate steam but many of my friends have actually found this as a good medium to buy games online & are content with it.


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 27, 2007)

Another advantage of steam is that, you can go to a new computer and install steam and and download full games if you own them. Once I was in my friends place but I felt like playing hl2 and didn't have install discs. So I downoaded steam, logged into my account and downloaded the game. Another advatnage of steam helps solve the problem of HL2 series. HL2 series keeps getting complete upgrades. After lost coast, valve got a proper HDR module for graphics engine. All these update over time would be large like downoading totally new. So I can take backups using steam along with all the updates and upgrades. so if original CDs get screwed, I can still take backups which are better than orignal game. Pre-steam era, my opposing force CD got slightly scratced and for replacement I had to pay 1 UK pound on top mailing expenses to UK. So I instead downloaded CD image from internet illegaly. Now such problems dont exist, thanks to steam.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 27, 2007)

adityagenius, you are just grasping at straws and repeating your points. None of your problems are real problems. Please attempt to post stuff that will apply to the general gaming population. I'm sure that most people will not get a sudden urge to play HL2 at their friend's house. And you downloaded it? You downloaded 2+ GB to satisfy your urge? Wow. Hats off to you. 

Updates are given in consoles also.... oh man.... how many times do i have to mention that consoles are auto-updating.... 

And how many times do i have to mention that the price difference between console games and PC games is narrowing.... PS2 games can be had for 499, The Xbox360 and PS3 are naturally more expensive as they are new.... were PC games cheap when the PC was launched?????

And who says you can't back up console games? Sure you need a modchip, but so what , a good modcip costs 2k, and a decent one 1k....and that is the best 1k you will ever spend...

s18000rpm, no one is disagreeing that PC graphics are better than console graphics, but the point is , how much money will you have to spend to get a PC high-end enough to make a game look better on it as compare to a console..... Consoles are PC equivalents of Medium-High settings at a 1080p resolution for the latest games..... so stop rofling.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 27, 2007)

well adityagenius what u mentioned is not legit afaik.any game's distribution aint right and thats also written on orange box dvd.so man i wouldnt considr this point when buying a gaming gadget.sure pc has an advantage that once u install u can use a no-cd patch if u have original game.so that saves ur media from scratches.
+ those who are worried about consoles having no mouse--
*www.consoleshop.com/product.php?productid=16497
this is for xbox360


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 27, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> s18000rpm, no one is disagreeing that PC graphics are better than console graphics, but the point is , how much money will you have to spend to get a PC high-end enough to make a game look better on it as compare to a console..... Consoles are PC equivalents of Medium-High settings at a 1080p resolution for the latest games..... so stop rofling.


 lets discuss & not fight.

tell me the price of console (not ps2/xbox, but latest) & a decent TV on which they can enjoyed.


PC price
proc.- e4500/e6550 = 4.5-7.5k
m/b - 4-10k (depends on u)
ram- 3GB DDR2 =~4k
gfx. card - ~6-20k
hdd- 320GB= ~3.5k
19" LCD monitor - ~10k
extras - ~4k
_____________________________________
total= 36 [non OC pc, mid range] or ~60k (high end)
_____________________________________

a equivalent to 19" monitor will be 32"+ tv (coz we sit far from them).

i'm not saying consoles suck...or something.

i just replied to the question - "Has PC gaming become pointless?"

-------------------
consoles are long term investment, but a 60k pc will not get outdated as some say, it'll play newer games at almost max settings for atleast two years & what more you can watch/encode/work... on a pc.

-------------------
i'd play a racing game on PC, as we sit really close to monitor.
-------------------

i'd hav bought a Xbox360, but the games are soooo costly that i jus gave up the idea.

btw when you say console are cheaper, dont forget to include the price of TV too (32"+ tv that is)


----------



## Who (Dec 27, 2007)

Wii- 250$
Lcd tv 21"- 25k (around)
Net - 900 rs/month
 am happy than ever


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 27, 2007)

^21" TV.

hmmm

nah.  32"+ is bare min.

we've  to (i) sit min. 6 feet away from TV, so the bigger the better

[not pointing at anyone]
man when you throw away 20-30k on a console, you should buy a LARGE tv, atleast a 40" lcd.

each game costs 2.5k if i have that kind of money, i'd buy a 60" TV to enjoy them


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 27, 2007)

s18000rpm said:
			
		

> "PC gaming will always be there on the cutting edge" 8)


 lolz that's whay i've telling ppl all the time .

To play all the latest games at the Highest settings you will need to upgrade your pc every 6-12 months .

Also , such a gaming beat will cost atleast 1 Lakh with a good set of Speakres and a Monitor to justify the GFX Quality .

Whereas on the Consoles , GFX quality is almost equal to that of PC's and Currently is better than what most High-End(50-60k) PC's can output and way better than what current mid-range pc's can output .

So getting an Xbox 360 or PS3 will guarantee you that you can play games for the next Five years without upgrading or anything .



			
				s18000rpm said:
			
		

> a equivalent to 19" monitor will be 32"+ tv (coz we sit far from them)


 Dude , you can also use your Xbox 360 on an LCD Monitor , just get a VGA HD Cable and use it .

You then sit close to the monitor and enjoy games without investing money in a 32" HDTV .



			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> card like 8800gt which faster than ps3 (read in article which said its twice as fast), do you expect scpec of xbox360 is enough?


 Dude , you're forgetting that the GPU of the 360 is better than the PS3's and also that the GPU's of Consoles are Dedicated and developers directly program for them .

Whereas in PC's there's a Hardware Abstraction Layer(HAL) and many other API's in between which make the effective performance of the GFX cards much lower than that of the Console's .


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 27, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Whereas on the Consoles , GFX quality is almost equal to that of PC's and Currently is better than what most High-End(50-60k) PC's can output and way better than what current mid-range pc's can output .


 thats b'coz all the games released for PC market are PORTs of consoles (x360), lazy game devs.



if i do gaming on console, why wud i buy a 19" monitor?

i'd rather hav a laptop.
-------------------------------------

this threads going no-where

its like Winodws vs Mac.

bottom line

PC world - it will keep developing as usual & its h/w(gfx) dev. is not going to be locked for gaming but developed for gaming.
Crysis answers all

Consoles- only three players & its meant only for gaming - so obviously the h/w will be locked for ~5 years & then throw your console (like gfx. card) & get new one.



i wish there's jus one common platform for gaming. a gfx. card/proc./... something which can be used in pc as well as consoles (all).


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 27, 2007)

X360 console -15k
TV 32" - 37k 

But including the cost the TV is hardly fair, as you are definetly going to buy a HDTV anyway, and it is a long-term investment. 

And I cannot beleive you are saying that PCs are more future-proof than consoles.... the PS2 i have has served me well for over 5 years.... without spending a rupee on hardware. 

How much would a PC cost you over 5 years? 

And how does sitting close to a monitor affect racing games??? 

What we should do is buy a basic PC for non-gaming tasks such as encoding, surfing, downloading which should not sot more than 15-20k, and buy a console and HDTV, for 70k, you are set for 5 years.

The HAL will be present even if it is not a port! As will the various APIs!

P.S. - Consoles are not only three players, look at XBL and PSN, (sigh,)


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 27, 2007)

s18000rpm said:
			
		

> only three players & its meant only for gaming - so obviously the h/w will be locked for ~5 years & then throw your console (like gfx. card) & get new one.


 Nah you can play your old console's games on it and play the latest games on your new console , both can be functional at the same time .

I still play Dead or Alive 2 and Resident Evil on my dreamcast even though i have an Xbox 360 .

Also , for game prices . now the prices have Decreased , most new games cost Rs 1895 and Xbox Classics cost Rs 999 . like Gears of War , DOA4 , Burnout Revenge , Perfect Dark: Zero , all these cost Rs 999 .

Well as i said you can borrow and exchange games with your friends and that makes the overall cost come down drastically .

Also , the second biggest advantage consoles have that you have many multi-player games as you can invite your friends over and ppay with them .

For example Burnout Revenge is simply awesome when playin with another friend , it just gives a whole new dimension to it .

Whereas in PC there are hardly any games that are enjoyable with 2 players .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 27, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> well adityagenius what u mentioned is not legit afaik.any game's distribution aint right and thats also written on orange box dvd.



what are you talking about illegit? what did I do thats illegit? Whats written on orange box case that says its illegal? 

@ring_wraith
I guess you made this thread to convert people to console. You even posted "you should buy computer and console." I just mentioned steam because it was brought up. You seem to be looking at only the smaller advatages. I also mentioned about game engine upgrades like HDR being added as and when they are developed. I wonder why you didnt notice that. Mention of steam is not even required. Best rpg, fps and rts being PC exclusive is enough. One or two get ported to consoles is useless.
I am repeating points because everytime I am being asked "what do you mean by *PC games*?". Lots of PC games are not going to come on consoles yet.



			
				Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Nah you can play your old console's games on it and play the latest games on your new console , both can be functional at the same time .
> 
> I still play Dead or Alive 2 and Resident Evil on my dreamcast even though i have an Xbox 360 .
> 
> ...



worms armageddon (ultimate fun)
bonkheads
jazz jackrabbit
future cop
some racing games my seniors play. I dont know because I dont play em.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 27, 2007)

^ unauthorised copying,distribution,lending,renting,etc......
and if i m not wrong the game is supposed to be run on 1 pc with that lisence.correct me if i m wrong.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 27, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> worms armageddon (ultimate fun)
> bonkheads
> jazz jackrabbit
> future cop
> some racing games my seniors play. I dont know because I dont play em.


 Dude these are Very Old games . I'm talkin bout next-gen games that you can play with your friends .

Jazz Jackrabbit was released way back in 1994 !


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm sorry, but what do i have to gain from converting people to console? You think I am some console dealer who is trying to advertise? 

I am just trying to put my points across. And you are accusing me of looking at the smaller picture. Of course, why din't I realize that everyone's eyes pain after 10 mins. of using consoles.... and How could I also forget that everyone *feels* like playing HL2 but don't have the disc, so they download it via steam....


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 28, 2007)

My conclusion:

1) Cutting edge games = PC (need to upgrade every now and then), but gives the best technology, artwork, experience

2) Future proof with decent resolution and audio: Console

I don't think anyone will disagree to it.


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 28, 2007)

ring_wraith said:


> P.S. - Consoles are not only three players, look at XBL and PSN, (sigh,)




by three players, i meant the console makers - MS, Sony & Nintendo.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 28, 2007)

Only thing , Resolution of Consoles is not "Decent" by current standards 

It'd be better to call it "Less than Max" or simply "High Definition" as all games have a native resolution of 'atleast" 1280 x 720 .


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 28, 2007)

some guys posted sooo much in this thread today

now everythig restored to 27-12-2007 (around 12:20pm )


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 28, 2007)

@ s18000rpm, man i am LMAOing after that mistake of mine..... lol man....


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 28, 2007)

What happened  mod deleted or DB error .

coz i didn't read thread today .


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 28, 2007)

ask adithya & nish


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 28, 2007)

about what they posted

forum was restored. i guess

[sorry for this post, but the "save" button in edit option is not working ]


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 29, 2007)

hey just clearing my doubts abt steam  
but i dont think we went beyond 3 posts to shut down this thread itself.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 29, 2007)

^^what is that supposed to mean?


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 29, 2007)

nothing like something not related to this thread.aditya was telling abt using steam games on diff pcs with 1 account.there were only 2-3 posts i think.nothin like spamming this thread


----------



## thrash_metal (Dec 29, 2007)

@adithyagenius

help me out here as i'm confused ........ according to you , 
1) I purchase Hl2 over steam over account 'a'
2) Activate it
3) Now go over a friends place and using account 'a' again download and activate it
4) Repeat step 3 as many number of times as I want 
5) So at the end of the day , all my 10 friends have HL2 and can play it .

So this way I am breaking no laws and everything is legit ??????


nways , considering today people are opting for consoles than PC ... maybe you can say that consoles have the 'x' factor currently . And as for tv / monitor size debates .... u can attach a bigTV to a console but for PC gaming u need a small monitor ???? This is a useless point to debate on .

Agreed consoles are best on HDTV but they (HDTV) display is way better that standard PC monitors . A good display is the display which does justice to your room and yourself . For saying I might put up a point against consoles that I need a 130" custom made HDTV to play on a console ... and add that price to gaming on console !!!! Or worst I may also demand a HD projection unit to go along with it .

As someone mentioned TV size is nothing to do with console nor is monitor size anywhere related . thats the perfect point .

As for game prices I distinctly remember my friend buying a legit copy of FAR CRY (back in the days when its launched) for 1700/- ...... as someone pointed out earlier as PC gaming became set in our country prices dropped , same will be for consoles soon .

For people like me who are not "too much" into tech and dont care what's what untill the game is playing smooth and nice and you are comfy on your recliner , its easier to implement a console and play ... we want to enjoy games and not waste the little free time we have optimizing and fixing installation errors and waiting hours (if not days)for downloads consoles seem an easy way out . 

Again i am not dissing PC gaming anyways ( I also have a PC which can run crysis pretty well @ high ... but thats another story ) ... 

conclusion :: both have their own charm and bot have their own ups and downs ..... as i said earlier consoles currently have their mysterious 'x' factor involved which is taking them a notch higher .


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 29, 2007)

thrash_metal said:


> And as for tv / monitor size debates .... u can attach a bigTV to a console but for PC gaming u need a small monitor ???? This is a useless point to debate on .



okay, then get a 17" TV & play game on it 


now, did you understand   my point? if not, read on...

TV - how far you sit from it?
PC/monitor - how far you sit from it?

can you enjoy the gfx. of a game on a 21" TV?

for PC, you'll sit closer,you can enjoy the details.

-----
about racing games, well i was talking of playing a game with "Cock-pit" camera.

its more involving & enjoyable when you race like that.

on console- if you sit far away, that involvement is not much. but sure you'll enjoy it if you put your couch close to TV & play. (thats what i'll be doing in January, will connect my pc to tv)

-------------
i HATE CodeMasters for PORTing CMR DiRT to PC
its so system heavy
lazy devs.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 29, 2007)

s18000rpm said:


> okay, then get a 17" TV & play game on it


 or you can connect your xbox to a 17" Monitor and set it up like a pc(x360 supports outputting at 1024x768 and higer PC resolutions) sit reall close and enjoy


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 29, 2007)

thrash_metal said:


> @adithyagenius
> 
> help me out here as i'm confused ........ according to you ,
> 1) I purchase Hl2 over steam over account 'a'
> ...




Well said man. Great post. Thank you for bringing an end to that annoyingly pointless discussion of screen sizes.  And how far you sit is in all actuality personal preference. I know several PC gamers who like to enjoy their games on their TVs....


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 29, 2007)

FFS i was not saying consoles suck or something, was jus telling a gamer's view.

dont tell me you enjoy Halo/ GOW on a 21" TV. 

my theory - if i have the money to buy a 20/40k *game console*, then i''ve the money to buy a better BIG TV. 

anyways, as i  mentioned earlier , this thread's goin nowhere.

it's jus like Windows Vs Mac / Linux threads


----------



## thrash_metal (Dec 29, 2007)

dude i do have a 26" LCD connected to my PC as a secondary monitor !!!!!!! And the size debate point is still STUPID !!!!!


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 29, 2007)

man s18000rpm does have a point.we CAN use a 21'' tv for Xbox 360\ps3 till the prices of HDTVs are lowered or till u buy one but the best experience will be only on them.and i already said 21'' crt tv (has to be a good one) is good enough to play till u get a hdtv.

but the thing is we all are talking about PC\console gaming.i think it includes PS2,xbox,SNES,nintendos,segas,etc,etc..without them this thread is a xbox360 advertise thread.


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

@trash_metal
I don't think its legit but its like sharing with your console game dvds anyway.
Regarding size of monitor. Having very large screen 1km or 1 cm away from face is bad. The optimal distance, so that it fits your field of vision varies with size. So the size-distance thing is not bs, even if you say it is.
Yeah, PC gaming still has charm. Until my fav titles shift to console, I am sticking to PC.
This thread is about PC gaming being obsolete due to consoles. It is not. I say that, the poll results reflect that and you also seem to agree that PC is not crap yet. So why argue?


----------



## thrash_metal (Dec 30, 2007)

@aditya .... thats y i game on both ...!!!!

nways , the screen size debate is STUPID and I'm again saying STUPID .... the titles shifting is a point but not screen size . Its a personal matter what screen size u prefer , its not mandatory to own a large LCD tv to enjoy consoles nor does it mean u buy small monitors for PC gaming . I know people with 28" monitors which are way expensive than a 32" TV !!!

@s18000 rpm :: cost of xbox360 -> 16k (here)

cost of 8800 -> 16k (around)

then y the bhedbhav ????? both cost nearly the same .... then y the stupid debate ?? So according to you I spend 16k on a graphics card .. im a poor person who can afford only a 19" monitor ... whereas i spend 16k on xbox (console) .. im rich and off to Sony for a custom made 130" panel ????


----------



## hahahari (Dec 30, 2007)

guys I do still enjoy gaming on 17 inch monitirs ....no need of hignend styuff to be a gamer.. and anyway iys all abt personal preferences.


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 30, 2007)

nish_higher said:


> man s18000rpm does have a point.we CAN use a 21'' tv for Xbox 360\ps3 till the prices of HDTVs are lowered or till u buy one but the best experience will be only on them.and i already said 21'' crt tv (has to be a good one) is good enough to play till u get a hdtv.
> 
> but the thing is we all are talking about PC\console gaming.i think it includes PS2,xbox,SNES,nintendos,segas,etc,etc..without them this thread is a xbox360 advertise thread.



Yeah i totally agree with you man. We need to diversify people. Why are we sticking only to Xbox 360? Agreed it is probably the best console out there as of today, but still the wii and PS3 do have their obvious advantages. 

I'll start off. The PS3 has one very obvious advantage. It has a freakin Blu Ray drive. Most Blu Ray players cost waaaay more than the PS3. So for 25k, you can get urself a Blu Ray player, and a great console ! 

ANd of course, the wii. If you have a relative abroad, then the wii beats any computer hands down. I say you need a relative abroad coz it is not launched in India! It is so immersive. One of my friends actually bought it from the Black market and i played it for a few hours at his place, and let me tell you, the games are so innovative that it puts the fun back into gaming. It is not the usual graphics rat race. The Wii rocks, and every gamer really should own one if only to get back to his roots.


----------



## s18000rpm (Dec 30, 2007)

i guess @nish was talking about the old consoles , ps2, xbox & all those 8 bit conoles.

i have a 8-bit console & play on it sometimes

btw @thrash_metal, i thought x360=23k. 
8800 is top end product, but the x360 (16k one) is not.

--------

what i meant was, just for gaming , if spend 23k (pc=all rounder), why should'nt i do it better?
does x360 play movies? if yes, then we can enjoy movies+gaming. 

anyways lets leave this.

you want to game on 21", its your choice.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

I saw a LG 25 inch HDTV here in eZone on display, 1280X720p based good one for gaming I would say. This one....just for 30k

*www.lgindia.com/Product/Products-Details.aspx?cat=101&pid=4521&subcat=LCD TV

*www.lgindia.com/images/Models/26LC4_LR.jpg


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

thrash_metal said:


> @aditya .... thats y i game on both ...!!!!
> 
> nways , the screen size debate is STUPID and I'm again saying STUPID .... the titles shifting is a point but not screen size . Its a personal matter what screen size u prefer , its not mandatory to own a large LCD tv to enjoy consoles nor does it mean u buy small monitors for PC gaming . I know people with 28" monitors which are way expensive than a 32" TV !!!



I never mentioned that large screen is needed for console. The problem is that good quality displays of small screen size and low cost are unavailable. Thats why large screen has to be purchased. All the small screen TVs are of standard definition and games look crap on them. I have personally tried playing Hot Prusuit 2 and ONI on my 21" stadard definition (1024*768 res) TV. Very low refresh rate, faded colours and less crisp. To reduce the boxy picture I had to sit 3 feet away. After 30 mins, I switched of tv and started using the laptop's 14" display at 1 feet for the better image quality.



			
				How Stuff Works said:
			
		

> Your computer probably has a "VGA monitor" that looks a lot like a TV but is smaller, has a lot more pixels and has a much crisper display. The CRT and electronics in a monitor are much more precise than is required in a TV



taken from *electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv16.htm

I never said that PC is better because of screen size. I said buying large screen and sitting many feet away is equivalent to sitting 1 feet away from medium size display. I don't know why you got such an impression from my posts.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 30, 2007)

And what i am saying is that if you already have a PC with a good monitor , don't spend your movey of a 16k GFX card . just buy a 15k Xbox 360 , connecct it to your monitor and enjoy gaming  

I say son't spend money on 16k GFX card bcoz it will not be the top-of-the line GFX card one year later and you won't be able to play all the latest games at the highest resolutions whereas the console will last you 5-8 Years and you'll be able to enjoy all the latest games without a hitch .

@adithyagenius , Standard TV resolution is 720 x 576 and not 1024 x 768 .

@s18000rpm . Yes the Xbox 360 plays Xvid/DivX/H264(HD)/VC1(HD) content smoothly . It includes a remote and now i prefer to watch movies on my 360 only instead of my PC .

And yes , i do enjoy gaming on my 29" HDTV . Screen Size does not matter a lot once you get accustomed to it . Even 17" PC monitor is good enuf if you want to game on it , so is a 21" TV .


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:


> And what i am saying is that if you already have a PC with a good monitor , don't spend your movey of a 16k GFX card . just buy a 15k Xbox 360 , connecct it to your monitor and enjoy gaming
> 
> I say son't spend money on 16k GFX card bcoz it will not be the top-of-the line GFX card one year later and you won't be able to play all the latest games at the highest resolutions whereas the console will last you 5-8 Years and you'll be able to enjoy all the latest games without a hitch .
> 
> @adithyagenius , Standard TV resolution is 720 x 576 and not 1024 x 768 .


I did not mean 720*576 is sdtv red. I just mentioned that my 5 year old sdtv supports 1024*768.

I never bought a 16k graphics card. I haven't spent 16k on graphics in total in my life.


----------



## nish_higher (Dec 30, 2007)

s18000rpm said:


> i guess @nish was talking about the old consoles , ps2, xbox & all those 8 bit conoles.
> 
> i have a 8-bit console & play on it sometimes




yeah i was talking about PS2,wii and Xbox.i still play my Nintendo SNES and N64


----------



## The Conqueror (Dec 30, 2007)

PC Gaming is not pointless.
look at Crysis and upcoming games such as Far Cry2, Splinter Cell : conviction, Alan Wake , and many more 
If you have the right hardware, u can play the way its meant to be played :d

What i feel is that PC gaming is far better than consoles.
AND now, (in 2008) many PC games r going to release than Console.
So now, PC gaming is not pointless at all!


----------



## zyberboy (Dec 30, 2007)

People who likes to enjoy games buys consoles...and those who likes to enjoy games+ and are passionate abt hardware n stuffs  wud still buy PC...and its not going to change , it will rule


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 30, 2007)

Harry Potter said:


> If you have the right hardware, u can play the way its meant to be played


 That's the whole point of the debate dude . The "Right Hardware" costs much much mor ethan a console and becomes mid-end every 6 months , so if you want to play latest games , spend 20k every year to play latest games on highest settings .

let me ask you ? what is your config ? will your PC will be able to play all the latest games at the highest settings for the next 5 years ?

PS: you already know the answer .


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

If all you need to do is gaming, then instead of PC, A console is a better idea. You can skip a HDTV instead buy a 19" LCD Monitor running at Wide Screen resolution, that should do the trick anyway.

I was looking at my needs from a gaming machine today...hmm, check the site of XBOX, Core system looks good enough for indian needs.

Do u really or usually use the 5 feature which require a harddisk? a Memory unit is good enough for saving games, & besides...if u r not much into online playback then Core system is good enough, isn't it? You can guy the harddisk later if u need.

Right now the best combination accoring to me would be a Sub 40k laptop with XBOX 360, U obviously have a TV at home already.


----------



## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

@gx....whats that sub 40k lappy for?????, and a lappy with x360 or a lappy and a 360????


----------



## zyberboy (Dec 30, 2007)

^^A lappy for general computer work and xbox for gaming


----------



## °K£l†huzaD° (Dec 30, 2007)

Heard XBox 360 Elite is the only console amongst the other versions of the Xbox's which is fully HD compatiable. MS has been cheating us!! But sony isn't, because the PS3 is fully HD compatiable.

Back to the topic, having a PC for gaming is not a bad idea as long as you upgrade at the right moment. 8600 GT wasn't a great product anyways. If you did some research you could have easily found out that the performance difference between 7600GT --> 8600GT is not as wide as 6600GT-->7600GT

PC gaming might be cheaper you know - (that is if you pirate stuff lol).


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 31, 2007)

°K£l†huzaD° said:


> Heard XBox 360 Elite is the only console amongst the other versions of the Xbox's which is fully HD compatiable. MS has been cheating us!! But sony isn't, because the PS3 is fully HD compatiable.


 All Models of Xbox 360(with fall update) fully support 1080p Video Ouptut.


----------



## °K£l†huzaD° (Dec 31, 2007)

Whats a  'fall update' ??


----------



## ring_wraith (Dec 31, 2007)

The Xbox 360 was updated with falcon chips and full 1080p support in fall..... SO it's called a fall update....

and @ °K£l†huzaD° , I really dunno if we are allowed to post stuff realted to piracy on the forums man. Keep it clean.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Dec 31, 2007)

Fall 2007 Update was the "software update" released for the Xbox 360 on 5 Dec 07 that Added DivX/XviD support and many other features .


----------



## ring_wraith (Jan 1, 2008)

oh. I guess the other update was something else.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jan 1, 2008)

yeah that was the Hardware Revision of the Xbox 360 Platform in late september


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jan 22, 2008)

ring_wraith said:


> and @ °K£l†huzaD° , I really dunno if we are allowed to post stuff realted to piracy on the forums man. Keep it clean.


actually, talking about the existance of pirated games is not illegal, but asking for download sites, posting links, open trading, etc are illegal.


----------

