# Bye Bye Ubuntu... I shall miss you... NOT



## MetalheadGautham (Jun 8, 2008)

I first started using linux an year back. I started with Ubuntu 7.04. It was one of the most enjoyable operating systems I ever used. A few weeks back, I decided to install the newer Long Time Support Version, ubuntu hardy heron. Its quite unstable and often laggy on my system. Unlike an year back, when I had no OS but ubuntu to use, because I was a newbie, times are different now. I am an experienced linux user, and ubuntu is far below my standards.

So its time to ditch ubuntu for good.

Bye Bye Ubuntu. Had a nice time with you.

I am moving to Debian Sid now, and you may see more posts about my experiences with Sid now.

So you guys think I made the right move ?

I am shifting to Debian-Sid-KDE+IceWM from tomorrow.


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## hullap (Jun 8, 2008)

www.debian.org said:
			
		

> "sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. *Use it at your own risk!*


see the bold text  and decide


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## kalpik (Jun 8, 2008)

Sid?! I think Testing would be a better option


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## chandru.in (Jun 8, 2008)

@MetalheadGautham

Moving to Debian is definitely not a bad idea.  But I'm just interested, what kinda instability did you face with Hardy Heron?  Also, what is ur system config?

Anyway Debian is a good choice (any Linux distro for that matter is).


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## FilledVoid (Jun 8, 2008)

> ts quite unstable and often laggy on my system. Unlike an year back, when I had no OS but ubuntu to use, because I was a newbie, times are different now. I am an experienced linux user, and ubuntu is far below my standards.



May the force be with you. But considering the system you have I would expect lag.  As far as standards are concerned, its more like you outgrowing Ubuntu than Ubuntu deteriorating in performance. Have fun with Debian and I definitely recommend testing over Sid.


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## chandru.in (Jun 8, 2008)

I really find the "testing" word in Debian pretty misleading.  I have rarely experienced any form of instability in it.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 8, 2008)

hullap said:


> see the bold text  and decide





kalpik said:


> Sid?! I think Testing would be a better option


well, from what I heard, Experimental is the one which gets REALLY unstable packages. Sid gets those which are released by the vendors as said to be stable, but not fully confirmed on debian yet.

Besides, doesn't ubuntu just fork Debian Sid packages, along with some experimental packages and repacks them for its own use in Hardy ?


chandru.in said:


> @MetalheadGautham
> 
> Moving to Debian is definitely not a bad idea.  But I'm just interested, what kinda instability did you face with Hardy Heron?  Also, what is ur system config?
> 
> Anyway Debian is a good choice (any Linux distro for that matter is).


Lets see...

1. Not able to Hibernate

2. Not able to use firefox while installing software even via commandline

3. Nautilus takes 4 seconds to open

4. Can't open Kaffeine and play 480p video with full postprocessing while Konqueror and Firefox are running

5. Epiphany-Gecko often crashes without any reason while multiple tabs are open.

6. My nearest software source, IIT Madras, has no source packages.

Configuration:

P4 2.66GHz
256MB DDR1 400MHz RAM
Intel GMA 900 Graphics
RealTek ALC880 Audio
Intel 915GLVGA chipset



FilledVoid said:


> May the force be with you. But considering the system you have I would expect lag.  As far as standards are concerned, its more like you outgrowing Ubuntu than Ubuntu deteriorating in performance. Have fun with Debian and I definitely recommend testing over Sid.


I guess you are right. I really HAVE outgrown Ubuntu. But the fact still remains that Feisty was better than Hardy to me.

I know a guy who has Debian Sid on a 1.5GHz P3 with 128mb RAM running KDE3.5 without lag full speed. No crashes.


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## Faun (Jun 8, 2008)

^^
Ubuntu packages are newer version
Yeah FF is named as iceweasel and its too is old version.

Lenny(testing) is the one u must trya


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## sganesh (Jun 8, 2008)

hi ,
I ve slow internet connection so i cant download deb linux,is to possible to  buy or get free dvd,i wannt to know  if any store or shop selling linux dvd??


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## NucleusKore (Jun 8, 2008)

sganesh said:


> hi ,
> I ve slow internet connection so i cant download deb linux,is to possible to  buy or get free dvd,i wannt to know  if any store or shop selling linux dvd??


Link deleted, look like they have mutated :S

Try this
*www.roseindia.net/linux/


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## CadCrazy (Jun 8, 2008)

sganesh said:


> hi ,
> I ve slow internet connection so i cant download deb linux,is to possible to  buy or get free dvd,i wannt to know  if any store or shop selling linux dvd??



Try www.buylinuxdvd.com


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## chandru.in (Jun 8, 2008)

I guess the probs are mostly due to your RAM.  What is the amount of SWAP space you have given?  Hibernation would need lot more SWAP as good amount of your SWAP space would have already been used by running apps.

Slow downs also may be due to your RAM as 256 MB is the minimum requirement for Hardy.  But I agree Ubuntu is heavier than more traditional distros as it attempts to be more friendly for newbies.

Anyway happy computing with the lighter parent of Ubuntu.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 8, 2008)

T159 said:


> ^^
> Ubuntu packages are newer version
> Yeah FF is named as iceweasel and its too is old version.
> 
> Lenny(testing) is the one u must trya


explain more clearly please ?

I need packages which are about as stable/new as ubuntu, which I find has a moderately stable mix of latest packages.



chandru.in said:


> I guess the probs are mostly due to your RAM.  What is the amount of SWAP space you have given?  Hibernation would need lot more SWAP as good amount of your SWAP space would have already been used by running apps.


Used RAM: 242,908KB
Free RAM: 3,900KB
Used Swap: 169,572KB
Free Swap: 328,400KB

This, IMO is more than enough, and must hibernate.
If I hibernate, Ubuntu locks session instead and leaves it there.


chandru.in said:


> Slow downs also may be due to your RAM as 256 MB is the minimum requirement for Hardy.


I have exactly that much - 256 MB.
And hardy is slow.
Besides, as I said, I know a guy who uses a debian-sid-kde system on a 1.5GHz P3 with 128mb ram and its faster and more responsive than my Gnome.

His disto(a customised debian), can be found on sourceforge, and its name is Beejex Linux.


chandru.in said:


> But I agree Ubuntu is heavier than more traditional distros as it attempts to be more friendly for newbies.
> 
> Anyway happy computing with the lighter parent of Ubuntu.


I am a newbie no more.
And there is hardly any difference between friendliness of Vector Linux and Ubuntu.


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## kalpik (Jun 9, 2008)

Just to tell you something, Debian (testing or sid) does not have the whole of gnome 2.22 yet 

My suggestion, do a base testing install, set up apt-pinning, and only get what you want from sid..


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## FilledVoid (Jun 9, 2008)

> well, from what I heard, Experimental is the one which gets REALLY unstable packages. Sid gets those which are released by the vendors as said to be stable, but not fully confirmed on debian yet.



Sid gets the what from the where?  Read the below quote again.



> The code name for Debian's development distribution is "sid", aliased to "unstable". Most of the development work that is done in Debian, is uploaded to this distribution. This distribution will never get released; instead, packages from it will propagate into testing and then into a real release.
> 
> Please note that security updates for "unstable" distribution are not managed by the security team. Hence, "unstable" does not get security updates in a timely manner. For more information please see the Security Team's FAQ.
> 
> "sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!





> Besides, doesn't ubuntu just fork Debian Sid packages, along with some experimental packages and repacks them for its own use in Hardy ?


No it doesn't .



> Lets see...
> 
> 1. Not able to Hibernate
> 
> ...



Is it just possible that your system doesn't have the necessary power to run whatever you are trying to do. In other words how about adding a bit of memory to your rig? but then again you have decided to change so it should make no difference. 



> Besides, as I said, I know a guy who uses a debian-sid-kde system on a 1.5GHz P3 with 128mb ram and its faster and more responsive than my Gnome.



I can run a KDE based install of Nimblex on far less requirements. Which takes probably lesser requirements than what your friend does on Sid. Nonetheless my point is this, stating that a distro sucks without even meeting its minimum Requirements it quite silly. For your further reading. 

*help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements 



> I guess you are right. I really HAVE outgrown Ubuntu. But the fact still remains that Feisty was better than Hardy to me.


Again looking at the above link I believe its more than clear that probably Hardy wouldn't work swell on your system. Did you check out the Hardy for Speed Guide I linked you on IRC. He runs a  rig with Ubuntu on much much lower requirements.  

If you're looking for the best efficient way for your computing experience and don't mind using your l337 techniques why not go try something like Crux, Arch or Gentoo? Ubuntu is definitely not meant for you.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 9, 2008)

kalpik said:


> Just to tell you something, Debian (testing or sid) does not have the whole of gnome 2.22 yet
> 
> My suggestion, do a base testing install, set up apt-pinning, and only get what you want from sid..


I don't care if Debian Sid has Gnome 2.22 or not.
All I need is KDE3.5, and be as far away from gnome libraries as possible.

And yes, I am going to install Lenny-KDE and see if its satisfactory.

@FilledVoid:
1. I don't want to get any more upgrades to my system now.

2. Whats the point of stripping ubuntu down for a guy like me who has anyway enough experience to construct a better distro using the same root as ubuntu, with even more features and customised to my needs ?

3. Yup Hardy won't work swell on my system. Not my fault. Nor Hardy's. So bye bye hardy.

4. If you were in my shoes what would you do ?


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## FilledVoid (Jun 9, 2008)

> 1. I don't want to get any more upgrades to my system now.



Don't upgrade. Upgrades are evil. 



> 2. Whats the point of stripping ubuntu down for a guy like me who has anyway enough experience to construct a better distro using the same root as ubuntu, with even more features and customised to my needs ?


Which brings me to the million dollar question.  Shouldn't you have asked yourself this before even tryign Hardy. 



> 3. Yup Hardy won't work swell on my system. Not my fault. Nor Hardy's. So bye bye hardy.


Exactly . Its not a distros fault that the system can't run it. 



> 4. If you were in my shoes what would you do ?


I would install Arch or Gentoo .


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## praka123 (Jun 9, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> I really find the "testing" word in Debian pretty misleading.  I have rarely experienced any form of instability in it.



testing is almost "stable" .

well ,@OP : you should go for Sidux or Debian Lenny  remember Ubuntu is better reg h/w support .

I think if you are for speed ,go for Archlinux ,no more confusion.enjoy how "pacman" works and its speed. 


I am on Debian Sid+experimental(apt pinning).current version of Gnome is *2.22.2* .daily updates are like 20MB or  more most days  stay away from Sid!

what you would like to do:

Install Debian Lenny.then apt-pin Debian Sid and Experimental repositories with  very low preferences(/etc/apt/preferences).

I recommend to install upstart,iceweasel3(apt-get -t experimental foo) from experimental repo.same way for unstable(sid) too.



			
				metal said:
			
		

> I know a guy who has Debian Sid on a 1.5GHz P3 with 128mb RAM running KDE3.5 without lag full speed. No crashes.


 no.  dont expect things like this!well then he may be using DFS(debian from scratch).


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 9, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> Don't upgrade. Upgrades are evil.


I run on limited funds. I hope you know what it means.


FilledVoid said:


> Which brings me to the million dollar question.  Shouldn't you have asked yourself this before even tryign Hardy.


I expected Hardy to be like Feisty - Fast and usable.


FilledVoid said:


> Exactly . Its not a distros fault that the system can't run it.


But as I said, its not the system's fault either.
And in this case, how can simple features like Hibernate not run ?
I am talking about the same system where I once ran Serious Sam, Firefox and Notepad at the same time(cheat codes browsing) and I experienced no lag comparable to this one. Back then it was slow, yes, but not 100% unresponsive.


FilledVoid said:


> would install Arch or Gentoo .


I was thinking of arch, but someone prompted me into going CRUX instead.
In about a month or so later, when I am settled with Debian Lenny/Sid and sufficiently edit my Joomla! based website/blog, I can get enough free time to experiment with distros. So I am making a project to get the best distro within 1GB of disc space. For this, CRUX has been chosen by me as the base system.



praka123 said:


> testing is almost "stable" .
> 
> well ,@OP : you should go for Sidux or Debian Lenny  remember Ubuntu is better reg h/w support .
> 
> ...


1. WTH is Sidux ? No more derivatives for me. I was offered a preconfigured Debian KDE distro by a guy who uses it on a system even weaker than mine, but it has good themes, etc. I refused. I am making my own system this time round.

2. I intend to use KDE and IceWM. Gnome is too n00bish for me.

3. I am installing CRUX in a month. Maybe that or Arch.

4. Daily updates of 20mb ? No problem. Ubuntu also gives same amount.

5. I guess Lenny + Apt-Pin Sid will be the best way for me then...

6. Does IceWeasel compile with QT ?

7. I decided its time to abuse

```
sudo apt-get source -b package-name
```
from now onwards.



praka123 said:


> no.  dont expect things like this!well then he may be using DFS(debian from scratch).


He just uses a custom kernel thats all. And some simple hacks.
His distro can be found on www.beejex.co.cc


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## Rahim (Jun 10, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> 2. Whats the point of stripping ubuntu down for a guy like me who has anyway enough experience to construct a better distro using the same root as ubuntu, with even more features and customised to my needs ?


Then when are we going to get the new distro made by MetalHeadGautham?


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## Faun (Jun 10, 2008)

The title reminds me of *NOT jokes* in Borat movie 
"My 4 year old cousin was doing a puzzle. When he was done, he came up to me and said "look what I done mikey" I said "oh that's really impressize" 'pause' "NOT!!" He started crying and ran away. Needless to say it was hilarious and I laughed hysterically. My not joke worked perfectly."

and yeah Love Me Not


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## drsubhadip (Jun 10, 2008)

good words....
but in a bad attitude..


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 10, 2008)

rahimveron said:


> Then when are we going to get the new distro made by MetalHeadGautham?


in about 2 months, when lenny becomes stable and its successor (in testing branch) comes out, and Firefox3 becomes stable, I am releasing that distro.

Its named SimpleX Linux.

Runs on KDE and IceWM is for light/safe/recovery mode.



drsubhadip said:


> good words....
> but in a bad attitude..


What attitude ? Ubuntu wasn't good enuf for me as it failed to run on my system. So its time to go manual and stich my own shirt instead of buying another ready made garment.


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## Vivek788 (Jun 24, 2008)

I am also planning to leave the ubuntu ...and go into debian.Also i want to try out freebsd and gentoo.Ubuntu hardy crashes on me and I don't want to be pampered anymore.


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## hullap (Jun 24, 2008)

maybe,
if u can tell us specifically which software makes it freeze,
u can get yourself free of the pain of migrating


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## praka123 (Jun 25, 2008)

Ubuntu utilizes lot of technologies especially ready made support of lot of hardwares by having firmwares etc loaded into Linux(kernel). the thing has become so complex that ,a 500 member devel team should work sitting in a office  (remember Debian struggles even though with more than 1000 devels elswhere in the world ).

but then ,the very idea of FOSS and internet joint devel is questioned ?  still , see the work by novell suse. they alone brought compiz,xgl and all (eventhough fancy things)


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 25, 2008)

Vivek788 said:


> I am also planning to leave the ubuntu ...and go into debian.Also i want to try out freebsd and gentoo.Ubuntu hardy crashes on me and I don't want to be pampered anymore.


Good. Get Sidux first. Its Debian Sid + Stability + KDE + Fluxbox.

If you want to get more experimental, later get Gentoo, but beware: You need to compile a lot. So you need good amounts of free time.

*Gentoo is almost like GNU+Linux+BSD*Ask Mehulved. He is a hardcore Gentoo FREAK.


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## Vivek788 (Jun 25, 2008)

yup...i hope i get free time...otherwise bsd and debian is wat i am looking for.I did enjoy the feature rich ubuntu...but sometimes u need it to stay right there for more uptime  than fancy stuff...sigh..


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 25, 2008)

Vivek788 said:


> yup...i hope i get free time...otherwise bsd and debian is wat i am looking for.I did enjoy the feature rich ubuntu...but sometimes u need it to stay right there for more uptime  than fancy stuff...sigh..


I think Sidux is perfect for you.
The problem is that its more PRO/developer oriented. This NOT at all a problem considering that this means it has everything you will usually need installed by default. This is a BIG PROBLEM considering that of all things that are not installed, SAMBHA IS INSTALLED BY DEFAULT.
I was like OMGWTH why would I ever need sambha ?


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## Pat (Jun 25, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> This is a BIG PROBLEM considering that of all things that are not installed, SAMBHA IS INSTALLED BY DEFAULT.
> I was like OMGWTH why would I ever need sambha ?



Its "Samba"...Sambha was the name of Gabbar Singh's accomplice in Sholay


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 25, 2008)

Pat said:


> Its "Samba"...Sambha was the name of Gabbar Singh's accomplice in Sholay


I know 

I still remember my old signature.

Windows: Oi Sambha, kithne servers the ?
Sambha: Keval do sardar
Windows: Keval do ? Aur thum ithne sare ? Suar ke bache... phir bhi thum log har gaye ?
Sambha: Lekin wo servers linux the sardar 

I call Samba Sambha for fun's sake


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## Pat (Jun 25, 2008)

Lol!!


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## Vivek788 (Jun 28, 2008)

lol...nice one


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