# Doubts about Engineering with IT Stream



## setanjan123 (Oct 19, 2014)

Recently I got into engineering with IT stream. Now this question has been bugging me for a long time. Why the hell do they teach pcm, mechanics and other stuff to students who have no need for these subjects. An IT or CSE student for instance would only require maths and English to be honest and even that is stretching it. Programming only starts from second year and even then there is physics. I mean wtf. I saw the syllabus of bca and was green with envy. C in the first semester and the whole syllabus was arranged so well with prime emphasis on programming. I began to regret that I should have gone the bca route. What advantage does a btech have over a bca I wonder if it is just working in IT companies. Why is the syllabus of engineering such that we have subjects that are completely unrelated to our discipline are taught?  What is the point?  I am both angry and curious. Can anybody answer what those folks at WBUT were thinking?    . Btw this is a genuine question. Why do you think a IT student needs to learn physics, mechanics, electronics and electrical?


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## abhigeek (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

It only in First Year...
In first year all streams have same syllabus, and mostly people change streams after 1yr.

Moreover earlier Btech used to be of 6yrs, there wasn't +1 and +2, first 3 yrs of btech, students were taught PCM.


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## setanjan123 (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

But there is physics in second year too. I saw the syllabus. And all our teachers say that wait till you see the syllabus of physics in second year. But even if it is one year, why? What is the point of teaching all these subjects. They could have taught a lot of computer science in a year.


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## abhigeek (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

Now, I guess they are stupid..
Try to learn of your own watching online tutorials or something


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## setanjan123 (Oct 19, 2014)

I plan to do so but want some answers. No teacher gives a satisfactory reason as to why we are studying this ****. They say, "Do you think the folks at WBUT are idiots? Such big big people there and who are you to say you don't need (insert subject)" and the same old "Study and get marks. Stop questioning the system blah blah" . I honestly began to think there had to be some sensible reason as to why we are being taught all this. Now I guess it is just plain laziness on their part. They can't be bothered to customize the syllabus for each stream. As more streams come into existence, they just stack it on top of the old syllabus.


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## seamon (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

Well....
course choice in Georgia Tech.


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## srkmish (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

Why are you making a big deal out of this. What's wrong in physics. Its as interesting as any IT Subject. If you keep an open mind, you can enjoy the subject.


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## SaiyanGoku (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

They still follow the standards of 1970's when school kids didn't knew $hit about PCM so they were taught that in college. IMO don't bother with the crap syllabus. follow it along with the open courses available on the internet. Learn python, c#, php before 3rd year. It'll help during placements.

Its India, they won't change the syllabus ever as they still use Turbo C++ 
People say level of engineering students has gone down. The truth is, students are forced to take up the branch as decided by their AIEEE/IITJEE score and not actually the branch they want. What's even more saddening is that entrance exams focus on PCM even for getting admission in CS/IT branch


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## seamon (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*



SaiyanGoku said:


> They still follow the standards of 1970's when school kids didn't knew $hit about PCM so they were taught that in college. IMO don't bother with the crap syllabus. follow it along with the open courses available on the internet. Learn python, c#, php before 3rd year. It'll help during placements.
> 
> Its India, they won't change the syllabus ever as they still use Turbo C++
> People say level of engineering students has gone down. The truth is, students are forced to take up the branch as decided by their AIEEE/IITJEE score and not actually the branch they want. What's even more saddening is that entrance exams focus on PCM even for getting admission in CS/IT branch



This is India....
Nobody cares about talent. It's all a perfunctory thing.
Heck, most of the students don't even know what they want to do in life.


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## ashs1 (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

Most of the universities are like this.. Still teach ancient stuff..  turbo c, Microsoft Office 2003, visual Basic 6.0,  is in the syllabus even though half the world moved on.. 
I recommend you check out various tutorial sites or Either do a good certification course side by side.


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## abhigeek (Oct 19, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*

Exactly!! that what I'm talking about!! 
Syllabus in India, of engineering is full crap....

Ok, Guys tell me that, subjects which is taught in CSE apart from programming like Digital Electronics, Networking, Processor Architecture etc
This all will be used in real life i.e in company and all


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## setanjan123 (Oct 20, 2014)

*Re: Doubts*



abhigeek said:


> Exactly!! that what I'm talking about!!
> Syllabus in India, of engineering is full crap....
> 
> Ok, Guys tell me that, subjects which is taught in CSE apart from programming like Digital Electronics, Networking, Processor Architecture etc
> This all will be used in real life i.e in company and all


I really doubt it. Since most of us end up in the IT sector, it makes it even more unlikely.


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## GamerSlayer (Jan 18, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*

Can somebody tell me why tossing a coin yields heads (or tails) after tossing a million times even if we don't want it?


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## GhorMaanas (Jan 18, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*

in our pre-sea marine engg. training course, we too had some highly unrelated course-modules esp. in our 1st four terms, like C & C++, and i/we used to seethe with rage and repentance on why we were subject to such seemingly 'useless' subjects and being 'wasted', esp. when i used to compare our modules with those of academies like USMMA (united states merchant marine academy). with time, it almost evened out, though that thorn remained stuck. 
could be because mariners are said to be 'jack of all trades', and to that extent, some bitter tonics were being shoved down our throats; a more plausible reason later on seemed that if someone is stranded on shore or/and wishes to settle on it, may be such courses could help, though i can't fathom how such subjects taught forcefully years back, with little-to-no memory of them remaining in heads, could help in actuality, except the mention of having studied them being on paper for others to see.

i would agree with srkmish; we don't have explanation for such seeming absurdities in our curriculum; i'd say take it in your stride (ofc, till you can't do anything about it).


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## anirbandd (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*

@OP: duuuude..

its WBUT. or whatever Mamuta dida has renamed it to nowadays.

i have seen students passing WBUT with good GPAs after studying "Last 5 years" questions and not buying the actual text books. 

but, let me not encourage you to take that route. 


What WBUT severely lacks is industry level interaction with industry level experts. the honchos in WBUT set the syllabi after huddling around a table and deciding what They think will be good for the student. they dont pause for a moment to think what the industry wants. 

The IT cos in india want exactly what WBUT churns out every year. Donkeys to work and bring in the green leaves. Chug on the TCS/CTS/Infy train chhoo choo... 
>overloadedtrain.jpg

and dont think that only the WBUT is to blame. the students. they just want an appointment letter, and a less than average package in their pockets at the end of 3rd year. . Moooooom, i've landed a job. bring out the laddoos!!

the industry [IT/Core] is evolving every year. WBUT is aloof of all this. Its sitting on its archaic mentality that the industry wants what it teaches to its students. 

this is the reason why the IITs/NITs and other institutes manage to get astronomical "packages" whereas WBUT manages on a 3 point something LPA package. 

and let me tell you, ECE dept in the WBUT is the biggest farce. the ECE grads become a border material. until and unless they go into MTech in IIT/NIT, there is NO hope of landing a neat job in the core ECE sector. they are not even fully ready to go into IT/CS cos. 

I'm keeping this short. i could go on. I too am a byproduct of the WBUT train and I am in the "industry"

PS: ALL of the IT majors in india have a formal training period where they teach the recruits what the Industry expects from them. No mention of PCM in them. 




Spoiler



the client i work for, my company charges $22 per hour from them for me. that amounts to 10840INR per day. that amounts to 216800INR per month. thats 2.17 Lakhs INR per month



Unless WBUT restructures its syllabi bigtime, they will only be fcuking up the futures of the students.


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## DVJex (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*



anirbandd said:


> What WBUT severely lacks is industry level interaction with industry level experts. the honchos in WBUT set the syllabi after huddling around a table and deciding what They think will be good for the student. they dont pause for a moment to think what the industry wants.
> 
> The IT cos in india want exactly what WBUT churns out every year. Donkeys to work and bring in the green leaves. Chug on the TCS/CTS/Infy train chhoo choo...
> >overloadedtrain.jpg
> ...


This applies to almost every state and college in India. Only some of the private colleges and certain public universities are better.


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## arijitsinha (Jan 19, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*

Lel, in my 2nd year when I went to give viva/oral test for our semester exam, our chemistry teacher told me I am seeing you for the first time. I told why shall I learn chemistry when it is not asked in campus interview. That mofo gave me the lowest grade. :-X

Anyway the explanation behind teaching all these subjects are, not all people join IT company after passing B.Tech, some go for Master degree, Researching. Remember computers are used in every section. Sometimes understanding the basic of these fields helps.

Once you join a software company you will ask why I have been taught Computer architecture, Artificial Intelliegence, Web Development, when finally I have to work in Microsoft Execl.


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## sam_738844 (Jan 20, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*



abhigeek said:


> Exactly!! that what I'm talking about!!
> Syllabus in India, of engineering is full crap....
> 
> Ok, Guys tell me that, subjects which is taught in CSE apart from programming like Digital Electronics, Networking, Processor Architecture etc
> This all will be used in real life i.e in company and all



The agenda which drives these subjects to run in the 4 year curriculum, is not totally unjust. Its the execution which sucks in private colleges. I was in one. Not a good one. The technology and computing universe is expanding, changing in a ludicrous speed outside WBUT, we cant afford to keep up with that by learning how to plot a SGF or by learning how many registers were there in a processor from Jurassic age. 

There are some subjects which really have nothing to do with either the intrigue that is promised in CSE or the cash-grab side of it. Control systems wont throw you a dime, any instrumental engineering or measurement subject would never ever help you pay your bills. But there are some subjects which you would not know yet will come handy, but they will, oh yes.

These subjects will be proven the heart stone of your future life as in a IT/Telecom oriented business space, sometimes directly, sometimes as part of your non-pro life. 

Mathematics= You should not ignore it, it may not directly affect your payroll later on, but will give you a solid base of confidence.

Digital and Analog  Electronics specially Telecommunication theory = You will regret not taking interest in it once you go in a OSS/BSS stack in any provider or its vendor (IBM,Ericsson ,Alcatel, Huwawei,Siemens,MSAT even TCS )

Networking= Something that you would want to go back and learn again once you start loving YouTube videos on how things work or may work in this insanely advancing telecom space.

Computer Organization/OS/Microprocessor = Does it let you know how your super-cool killer gaming rig actually works? NO. What it does then? It lets you UNDERSTAND that s#it when you are TOLD HOW! its the alphabets and most fundamental building blocks of understanding.

AI/Theory of Computer Science/Algorithms = No your not becoming Alan Turing by reading all these, these are tough and abstract s#it, not for everyone, but if you have something you still dont know in you, and if you are supposed to be a great engineer in Computer Fking Science...someday...put these in your plate and chew.

See, all these things that you will learn and will pretend to in the interview table, along with the horse-riding-guitar-playing-post-colonial-poetry-writing-dancing-singing-cricketing bullcrap hobbies , will gather a Truckload of dust in the next 2 years of absolute isolation from healthy living and non-compliance with study in college. So apart from programming and database...just try to read up those subjects at least to some level which...you know..lets you stay away from repentance...that "If I had just put some hours in this..that time...i would not need these basic goggling or you tube" is bad in mid-life.

Because someday, while you will be walking in the office gate with a backpack with hundreds of dudes looking same like you are, you might stumble to a question "what the fk is going on and why am i doing this" Then...you will start to look-back, and it will be not too late...but a little for sure.


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## abhigeek (Jan 22, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*

[MENTION=150630]sam_738844[/MENTION] Thanks for your valuable insights.

- - - Updated - - -



arijitsinha said:


> Lel, in my 2nd year when I went to give viva/oral test for our semester exam, our chemistry teacher told me I am seeing you for the first time. I told why shall I learn chemistry when it is not asked in campus interview. That mofo gave me the lowest grade. :-X
> 
> Anyway the explanation behind teaching all these subjects are, not all people join IT company after passing B.Tech, some go for Master degree, Researching. Remember computers are used in every section. Sometimes understanding the basic of these fields helps.
> 
> Once you join a software company you will ask why I have been taught Computer architecture, Artificial Intelliegence, Web Development, when finally I have to work in* Microsoft Execl*.


Really!! In software companies we have to work in MS-Excel ?


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## nisargshah95 (Jan 22, 2015)

setanjan123 said:


> But there is physics in second year too. I saw the syllabus. And all our teachers say that wait till you see the syllabus of physics in second year. But even if it is one year, why? What is the point of teaching all these subjects. They could have taught a lot of computer science in a year.



You know most universities do start having disciplinary courses after first year (yours might be an exception). One of the reasons I can think why these courses are taught is -

Maths - Well I would not go into explaining this one. I won't argue even if this comes in the 2nd year too. Physics - You would not have those great physics-based games. I agree not all game programmers need to learn physics but I am sure it would have helped them a lot. Also, this knowledge might have also helped the programmers build complex scientific data analysis and simulation tools.
So, there you go. Stop complaining and learn to appreciate science.



SaiyanGoku said:


> They still follow the standards of 1970's when school kids didn't knew $hit about PCM so they were taught that in college. IMO don't bother with the crap syllabus. follow it along with the open courses available on the internet. Learn python, c#, php before 3rd year. It'll help during placements.
> 
> Its India, they won't change the syllabus ever as they still use Turbo C++
> People say level of engineering students has gone down. The truth is, students are forced to take up the branch as decided by their AIEEE/IITJEE score and not actually the branch they want. What's even more saddening is that entrance exams focus on PCM even for getting admission in CS/IT branch



Oye! How can you say school kids did not know "$hit" about PCM in college in 1970s? Even school kids in 21st century do not know "$hit" about PCM (except those who get into IITs).
And I don't know about any college that evaluates your CS skills for undergrad admissions. Do you know any? Anywhere outside India maybe?
And FYI, just learning programming languages would not help in placements. There's more to CS than that.


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## setanjan123 (Jan 26, 2015)

nisargshah95 said:


> You know most universities do start having disciplinary courses after first year (yours might be an exception). One of the reasons I can think why these courses are taught is -
> 
> Maths - Well I would not go into explaining this one. I won't argue even if this comes in the 2nd year too. Physics - You would not have those great physics-based games. I agree not all game programmers need to learn physics but I am sure it would have helped them a lot. Also, this knowledge might have also helped the programmers build complex scientific data analysis and simulation tools.
> So, there you go. Stop complaining and learn to appreciate science.


Who is complaining about maths?? I am not. And you talk about physics based games. You do realize that engineering mechanics is more than capable of handling that. And if we talk about advanced techniques used in AAA games, the syllabus is far from sufficient. And most of all, the chances of a guy ending up as a physics programmer after a btech degree in IT is low. And people who seriously want to work with physics won't be doing a degree in IT. A person interested in computational physics would be more sensible in doing a pure physics degree and then maybe doing a specialization in computational physics later on. Same logic applies to chemistry. As far as electrical and electronics goes, I think we may require some of it but not all of it. I am fine with all these subjects being taught but only on one condition. They teach programming properly. You say there is more to cs than programming. I agree. But that is all they teach. And that too very poorly. Heck now in second semester we have C. And only turbo c is allowed. We aren't even allowed to use dev c or any other compiler. If they are so keen on teaching us physics and chemistry then I say the quality of computer science shouldn't be compromised. But that's what they do. The people who make the syllabus are stuck in their own idealistic bubble. They don't realize how poorly equipped we are to combat the problems encountered in the industry. The CS part of the syllabus isn't given enough priority. Even in 3rd year we are taught subjects that are totally irrelevant to IT or CS. That's what I am complaining about. Wasting 4 years and a lot of money. I would be happy if they taught the CS part well. But they don't. First they don't teach us the main things properly and then they overburden us with subjects that we will require rarely. What's the point?? The least they could do now is making the syllabus more flexible. Offering more electives etc. And I do appreciate science. Stop assuming things about people . Sorry for the wall of text


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## setanjan123 (Jan 26, 2015)

*Re: Doubts*



sam_738844 said:


> The agenda which drives these subjects to run in the 4 year curriculum, is not totally unjust. Its the execution which sucks in private colleges. I was in one. Not a good one. The technology and computing universe is expanding, changing in a ludicrous speed outside WBUT, we cant afford to keep up with that by learning how to plot a SGF or by learning how many registers were there in a processor from Jurassic age.
> 
> There are some subjects which really have nothing to do with either the intrigue that is promised in CSE or the cash-grab side of it. Control systems wont throw you a dime, any instrumental engineering or measurement subject would never ever help you pay your bills. But there are some subjects which you would not know yet will come handy, but they will, oh yes.
> 
> ...


Hmm good advice.


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## anirbandd (Jan 26, 2015)

As i said, the WBUT syllabi makers have very little of the industry needs.


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## nisargshah95 (Feb 23, 2015)

setanjan123 said:


> You say there is more to cs than programming. I agree. But that is all they teach. And that too very poorly. Heck now in second semester we have C. And only turbo c is allowed. We aren't even allowed to use dev c or any other compiler. If they are so keen on teaching us physics and chemistry then I say the quality of computer science shouldn't be compromised. But that's what they do. The people who make the syllabus are stuck in their own idealistic bubble. They don't realize how poorly equipped we are to combat the problems encountered in the industry. The CS part of the syllabus isn't given enough priority. Even in 3rd year we are taught subjects that are totally irrelevant to IT or CS. That's what I am complaining about. Wasting 4 years and a lot of money. I would be happy if they taught the CS part well. But they don't. First they don't teach us the main things properly and then they overburden us with subjects that we will require rarely. What's the point?? The least they could do now is making the syllabus more flexible. Offering more electives etc. And I do appreciate science. Stop assuming things about people . Sorry for the wall of text



The above point mostly emphasizes on the fact that your college seems like $hit (no offense ). My college had some pretty interesting courses. In 1st year 2nd sem, computer programming was taught with current standards in mind (gcc, linux, etc. we even had initial labs based on shell scripting). In 2nd year. In first sem we had Discrete Structures for CS, Logic in CS, OOP (which again, does not mean only Java) and in 2nd sem we have Database Systems, Data Structures and Algorithms (taught form Cormen) and Microprocessors.

In the end it all boils down to what your college teaches. I was making more of a point towards learning other things on your own (and not just concentrating on learning only the programming language). 
You'll find lots of online courses from MIT, Stanford, etc. Pick any one and complete it.

My apologies for this post coming late.


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## setanjan123 (Feb 24, 2015)

nisargshah95 said:


> The above point mostly emphasizes on the fact that your college seems like $hit (no offense ). My college had some pretty interesting courses. In 1st year 2nd sem, computer programming was taught with current standards in mind (gcc, linux, etc. we even had initial labs based on shell scripting). In 2nd year. In first sem we had Discrete Structures for CS, Logic in CS, OOP (which again, does not mean only Java) and in 2nd sem we have Database Systems, Data Structures and Algorithms (taught form Cormen) and Microprocessors.
> 
> In the end it all boils down to what your college teaches. I was making more of a point towards learning other things on your own (and not just concentrating on learning only the programming language).
> You'll find lots of online courses from MIT, Stanford, etc. Pick any one and complete it.
> ...


Well your college surely doesn't come under WBUT (MAKAUT now ). The college isn't at fault. The University is. Damn I am jealous of you. Such good standards. Our college machines run Windows xp and turbo c. Even there is dev cpp they don't let us use it.   And yeah algorithms and the basic concepts are important I agree. But they surely can't be taught be making us do the same old **** again and again (stupid programs and patterns ). Btw from which University did you do your bachelors??


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## nisargshah95 (Feb 24, 2015)

setanjan123 said:


> Damn I am jealous of you. Such good standards.


I am grateful for that. 


setanjan123 said:


> Our college machines run Windows xp and turbo c. Even there is dev cpp they don't let us use it.


Don't crib about it. Install Dev CPP on your system (or linux for that matter) and program using the current standards. The old standards don't differ much form current in terms of syntax. You'll get lots of help from websites like StackOverflow.



setanjan123 said:


> And yeah algorithms and the basic concepts are important I agree. But they surely can't be taught be making us do the same old **** again and again (stupid programs and patterns ).


I would strongly suggest getting Introduction to Algorithms (50% discount at Flipkart) and do some self-learning. You could get lecture slides of various universities searching Google. Here's MIT's plan for the course (slides are also available for this course but I can't seem to find them).


setanjan123 said:


> Btw from which University did you do your bachelors??


I would rather not answer that due to privacy reasons . But I'm still doing my bachelors (2nd year).


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## setanjan123 (Feb 24, 2015)

nisargshah95 said:


> I am grateful for that.
> 
> Don't crib about it. Install Dev CPP on your system (or linux for that matter) and program using the current standards. The old standards don't differ much form current in terms of syntax. You'll get lots of help from websites like StackOverflow.
> 
> ...


I use dev cpp and code blocks at home. That's no issue. Stopped using tc++ quite a while ago .


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