# should we attack on pak...........?????????



## pr.itdude (Dec 7, 2008)

hello frndz,
as we know all abt the mumbai attack, the whole world shocked.....
thereafter there were a lot of protests and anger against our politicians who misjudged the indian mood this time atleast,
now there is talk everywhere abt 
y we always kept quiet??
y gov not take strict actions...???
now being here at a tech forum,
i want to open up a new thread to know the views of all the techies here, what u think.......

*should we go for a final change, should we attack on pakistan and destroys all the terrorists camp.....????*

mostly ppl would say ""yes""
but there is another side of coin, the world is facing economic crisis,india too. so is this the right tym for the attack, we will also suffer a gr8 loss in terms of money n soldiers....!!! and both india and pak are nuclear power today....!!!

will this not agitate the world war......??? As America is supporting india and there are a lots of anti-american countries.........who would be with pak, muslim countries basically..........!!! 

Also this is a matter of indian pride, so y dont we...........???

What u ppl, the thinkdigitian think abt this issue...........????


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## iNFiNiTE (Dec 7, 2008)

First of all, why is this post in the random news section? Shouldn't Fight Club be the better place to move this thread?

And as for the strike on pakistan, we should remember that India is not US and Pakistan is not some militarily backward state like Afghanistan/Iraq. Any such attack maybe treated by pakistan as an attack on its sovereignity and it may quickly escalate into a full scale war.

Think rationally dude, wars are not fought over pride or issues like economic crisis. Especially when there are nuclear weapons involved.


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## ravi_9793 (Dec 7, 2008)

Only possible way to end terrorism is.. PAK and IND together destroy all terrorist camp. A direct war on PAK may result in nuclear war... which nobody wants.


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## nix (Dec 8, 2008)

^^ you think pak has control over its nukes? i think US controls pakistan's n-button. its highly improbabl for US to let pakistan's unstable govt to govt to control pak's nukess


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

Don't pave a way to *World War III* 

*A Big NO to war.....*


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## IronManForever (Dec 8, 2008)

For me, this tech forum is one of the ways I try to escape from harsh realities. Discussing politically sensitive issues here feels odd. I did that once.. and as no imminent end was seen, I dread these kinda debates..


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## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

No way  man, wat if they trigger nuclear weapon, it ll create large scale destruction and long lasting radiation effects....it took lot many years for Hiroshima and Nagasaki to be back.....Chernobyl after effects were dreadful too


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

*A BIG NO Again* 

Mujhe abhi jeena hai aur bade bade kaam karne hai


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## QwertyManiac (Dec 8, 2008)

Not something I'd discuss on a forum


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 8, 2008)

ionicsachin said:


> No way  man, *wat if they trigger nuclear weapon,* it ll create large scale destruction and long lasting radiation effects....it took lot many years for Hiroshima and Nagasaki to be back.....Chernobyl after effects were dreadful too



hum kya diwali ke 50 rupay wale rocket leke baithe hai?If they attack with nuclear weapons then their country will be history.They can destroy maximum 2-3 indian cities but they wont be alive to see all this.



mrintech said:


> *A BIG NO Again*
> 
> Mujhe abhi jeena hai aur bade bade kaam karne hai



Seedh seedha bol tujhe shaadi karni hai.


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## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

^^no yaar...we can distroy them off...but nuclear weapons have very bad effects...try google image "chernobyl afteraffects"...radiation is hell


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 8, 2008)

ionicsachin said:


> ^^no yaar...we can distroy them off...but nuclear weapons have very bad effects...try google image "chernobyl afteraffects"...radiation is hell



I know.Agar is sey pakistan saaf ho sakta hai toh main qurbaani ke liye ready hu.Joking.Nuclear ka effect toh dheere dheere khatam ho jayega par Pakistan ka kabhi nahi hoga.


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

gaurav_indian said:


> Seedh seedha bol tujhe shaadi karni hai.



LOLuRight


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## pr.itdude (Dec 8, 2008)

yup.........a NO from me too.......
but there is an utter need to give a tight slap to pak........!!
and this is the only way....
can't we just attack only on their some base camps.........
our AIR FORCE is very much capable of doing that.........!!! and UN is also with us.......!!



QwertyManiac said:


> Not something I'd discuss on a forum



well if u not discuss it today,,,,,,,,,,,,
next tym u will be the victim of these terrrorists........!!
samay aa gaya hai.......jab aar ya par k ladai ki jaye..........


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## IronManForever (Dec 8, 2008)

pr.itdude said:
			
		

> and UN is also with us


:laughs: :laughs: 
UN and Nukes are two sides of a coin. Use nukes and Un will turn their head opposite..


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## hhhgame (Dec 8, 2008)

a big no to all the guys who supported war here, or even they say as *"samay aa gaya hai.......jab aar ya par k ladai ki jaye.........."*.

this is not the way to deal the situation, remember that pak is a nuke capale country, and there are very high chances that these terrorists will be having the same nuke weapons, recently US intel report says it suspects that they may posses nukes.

the solution to this is

1. we have a terrorist in our custody that can tell where are the camps
2. our intel has very strng proof against terror camps ib pak

give all the proof to all the world or best the UN and create a preassure on them to all the countries come under one roof even the pak and destroy their terror camps.

waging a full scale war on pak is not a solution, there are human beings in pak who are innocent, they did nothing. why they should suffer.


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## Ross (Dec 8, 2008)

hhhgame said:


> waging a full scale war on pak is not a solution, *there are human beings in pak who are innocent, they did nothing. why they should suffer.*



So the victims of terror attack at Mumbai, Delhi, Jaipur, Hydrabad........... were not *innocent* ????

Anyways, I am also against the war...


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

Ross said:


> So the victims of terror attack at Mumbai, Delhi, Jaipur, Hydrabad........... were not *innocent* ????



But it's a truth that Innocent people are there also in Pak (not all but  some)


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## Ross (Dec 8, 2008)

mrintech said:


> But it's a truth that Innocent people are there also in Pak (not all but  some)



right said..
then not only in Pak, they are all over the Earth .. (and may be some at LeT, JeM, Osama's camp too)!!!


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 8, 2008)

Osama bada shareef insaan hai.And he is a very responsible man.Kahin bhi bomb blasts ho uski responsibility apne shoulders pe leta hai.



hhhgame said:


> a big no to all the guys who supported war here, or even they say as *"samay aa gaya hai.......jab aar ya par k ladai ki jaye.........."*.
> 
> this is not the way to deal the situation, remember that pak is a nuke capale country, and there are very high chances that these terrorists will be having the same nuke weapons, recently US intel report says it suspects that they may posses nukes.
> 
> ...


India gave all the proofs in the past also.What happened?People in pakistan even though terrorism exists there and they know that cant accept when indians tells this same truth to them.They make fun of all these proofs.And say things like its hindu terrorists.Where in our country news channel and people always say terrorism has no religion.


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## Ross (Dec 8, 2008)

gaurav_indian said:


> .....And say things like its *hindu terrorists*....



OT: BTW, i may be wrong(and please correct me if i am), but AFAIK the term Hindu Terrorists was coined by a Indian(and Hindu) himself only after Malegaon blasts....Guesse who..???
There was no such thing like hindu terrorist in India before...(and Pakis caught the word.)


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 8, 2008)

Ross said:


> OT: BTW, i may be wrong(and please correct me if i am), but AFAIK the term Hindu Terrorists was coined by a Indian(and Hindu) himself only after Malegaon blasts....Guesse who..???
> There was no such thing like hindu terrorist in India before...(and Pakis caught the word.)



Yeah may be by an indian politician. Yeah pakis are making it as an excuse.That samjhauta express blasts were done by an army official so this mumbai attack is also done by hindus thats their thinking.


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## Ross (Dec 8, 2008)

pathetic pakis......


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## pr.itdude (Dec 9, 2008)

hey, i am not also in the favour of war, "full scale war", india will also have to pay in that situation....
but something must be done........we cant sit quiet now....!!
i am more concerned about the Air attack on PAK terrorists camps......
the other countries can only say to india that "u r right"............but we, INDIA has to take steps bcoz its the indians who have died in the attacks..........

its not mere about these recent attacks,v r suffering from this terrorism problem since the 93 mumbai attacks..............buddy,,,u cant count the no. of *innocent indians* died since then........!!!


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## iNFiNiTE (Dec 9, 2008)

I have said this earlier and will repeat it again, attacking pak isn't the solution for ending India's woes with terrorism.

What we have in PoK and other areas as terrorist camps aren't some definitive buildings but makeshift camps. Even if we bomb them, whts the guarantee that they won't spring up elsewhere? Terrorists can be trained in any area of Pak or afghanistan. Do you seriously think that once these camps are destroyed, there won't be any future terrorist attacks? Remember, US with all it's high tech gadgetary and intel  and its 'War on Terror' started -8 years agao couldn't stop the international terrorism menace, couldn't bring an end to Taliban in afghanistan and also got itself stuck in Iraq. 

Attacking pakistan now would be playing directly into hands of LeT and ISI. They WANT India to attack those areas so they can unite in the name of an aggression from India and shift the focus from the northern front of pakistan where the pak troops have to wage a war against their own home bred terrorists under US pressure. Pak already used a hoax call as an excuse to shift many troops to its border with India and started preparing for a so-called incoming attack, Imagine what they would do if there are real surgical strikes.


Those who say that *"samay aa gaya hai.......jab aar ya par k ladai ki jaye.........."*, I would say that yes, its high time that we beef up our own security. Instead of attacking pak which won't stop future terrorist attacks, we should spend money on our modernizing our police and improving the Intelligence networks. Enhancing the security cover in all cities, federal agencies to tackle terror, ensuring better cooperation between all security agencies etc would be a rational thing to do. 

As for the people- Stop giving bribes to policemen to get away from security checks/toll tax barriers or get things done faster for you. It's corruption and slacking at the job by persons responsible for security, that makes things easy for terrorists in their evil plans. So be responsible and see to it that things around you work how they are supposed to work.


And those who say that only 2-3 cities will be destroyed by a Pak nuke attack, with India's 'No first use' policy and Pak's 'Anything threatens us, we nuke India' policy, which cities do you thing they would first attack? Delhi,Mumbai, Bangalore,Kolkata??? What about the millions of people who will lose their lives? And even if we fire away tens of nukes at their cities, it won't end the nuke war coz nuclear missile launchers aren't kept in cities but in remote places which could be used to launch further strikes. So any war which even has a remote possiblity to escalate into a nuclear war is a Strict NO-NO.


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## pr.itdude (Dec 9, 2008)

@ infinite......i really appreciate ur security knowledge....!!
but u ppl really think pak will gonna to help us to catch those militants/master-minds....???

*preview.shareapic.net/preview4/013226890.jpg  
*preview.shareapic.net/preview4/013226977.jpg


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## oval_man (Dec 9, 2008)

Slightly off the topic:

During Mumbai Terrorist Attack,NSG commandos fought and the 'war' came to an end with  

many loss of life-------------This is a known Fact,

Now,we all know NSG commandos comprise of many trained people from various states of India like BIHAR,UP,TN,Karnataka,Kerala and so on...

Now,the question is What happened to our DADA 'Thackarey & co' who opposed other state Indians entering Mumbai & Maharashtra?

NOw,how our Mumbaiites will deal such campaign against other state Indians?


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## m-jeri (Dec 9, 2008)

In one word. YES.

We should have done this years ago.
But it will never mean it be the end of anything. it will just trigger a lot more new movements. 

The only thing abt their govt is their active support of terrorism and harboring fugitives. for that a war is not the answer though. it be having strong and correct diplomatic and strategic movements. political and military.

Moreover. even before taking the war to others it be better to start from inside this nation. the level of corruption, racism, patriotism have to be checked again on each indians. failing to do so. even a 50 year campaign on the enemy will not result in a better nation. just a torn apart good for nothing one.

Protect the citizens. Modernize and arm the domestic security. 3 days it took for them. inside the nation. if one politician was there we would have seen far better results.

Even after the incident CNN done a report on the security of various hot spots in india. nothing is different.


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## dreamcatcher (Dec 9, 2008)

Cummon guys,you actually serious?? India doesnt have the horsepower to floor Pakistan, and thats a fact.US will be the sole gainer if India ever decides to lanch an attack.they will be supplying arms to pakistan and India alike and thereby gaining huge sums in the process. And what about us?? Imagine the amount of destruction it shall cause to the Indian subcontinent if the terrorists retort bck with missiles and fighter plnes of their own?? The militants are nothing but a rogue arm of the ISI, who gives a gurantee that Pakistan wont nuke us?? 


Look at the broader side of the matter and not take a hunch for a decision. If in the course of the attack, China decides to run amock, what shall be our plight??? We cant attack them unless we have heavy backing from all quarters, which as of now, seems a distant possibility..


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## Sridhar_Rao (Dec 9, 2008)

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I strongly urge you to visit it and participate in the opinion poll on terror. Visit here: www.microrao.com/terror_poll.php


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## Chintu08 (Dec 9, 2008)

justa curiosity.
when someone dies in pakistan, their relative, friends or neighbours.. do they celebrate that? :lmao:
wtf do they eat for food?  sick noobs


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## Faun (Dec 10, 2008)

:megalmao:


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## afonofa (Dec 11, 2008)

nix said:


> ^^ you think pak has control over its nukes? i think US controls pakistan's n-button. its highly improbabl for US to let pakistan's unstable govt to govt to control pak's nukess


pakistan's govt. has never been in control of their nukes!  It's always been their army. If I had to bet my money on some other country controlling pakistan's nukes, then I would bet on china.


pr.itdude said:


> *should we go for a final change, should we attack on pakistan and destroys all the terrorists camp.....????*
> 
> but there is another side of coin, the world is facing economic crisis,india too. so is this the right tym for the attack, we will also suffer a gr8 loss in terms of money n soldiers....!!! and both india and pak are nuclear power today....!!!
> 
> ...


Yes to military action by India, No to  a full scale war against pakistan. But military action should not be limited to only destroying terrorist camps because as long as that territory is under pakistan's control, the terrorist camps will be setup again. Expand the scope and take control over PoK and over time, with the right political will, integrate it politically, economically and culturally with J&K and the rest of India.

India's economy will not go into recession due to the global economic crisis. It's growth will slow down but it will still continue to grow. Compare that to pakistan's economy which has had to borrow money from the IMF, without which it would have collapsed in one month(not exaggerating here). The situation is that bad for them. Even the pakistani army needs to pay its soldiers. Any conflict with India in Pok, if it drags on too long will cause a lot more problems economically, for pakistan than for India.

If the attacks on the world trade center and the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq did not cause Muslim nations to engage the rest of the world in WWIII, then a conflict between India and pakistan over PoK will definitely not spark it off. Infact India has good relations with all the major Muslim nations. As for support to pakistan, the recent failure of the "Friends of pakistan" effort(organized by pakistan to collect funds for its economy) following which it had to beg from the IMF should be indication enough of the support that pakistan has.

Indian pride? Do we still understand what pride means? Besides if pride is to be the reason for getting into a conflict with pakistan, then you can be sure that we will not win. But if we get into it with the sole purpose of doing the right thing, then victory will be ours.



gaurav_indian said:


> If they attack with nuclear weapons then their country will be history.They can destroy maximum 2-3 indian cities but they wont be alive to see all this.


pakistan must be having around 50-75 nuclear warheads or even more. It takes only a few minutes for their missiles to reach (every part of)India. So in the event of a pre-emptive nuclear attack by pakistan, we will be losing a lot more than 2-3 cities. All the major cities, the capital of every state of India, a huge chunk of our armed forces, including a lot of our missiles and nuclear capable fighters. Of course India will still be left with enough of a nuclear arsenal to effectively ensure the complete annihilation of pakistan and the *idea of pakistan*. 

In the aftermath, the entire subcontinent will be Indian territory, including Bangladesh. However the subcontinent which *you* will be left with(because I would have been vaporised in the nuke attack on Mumbai ), will not be the fertile lands, rich in natural resources & culture that we know today. As most cities are located along the banks of rivers, the river system in the subcontinent will be polluted for a long long time to come. For eg. the Ganga(ganges) will cease to be a perrenial river as the glaciers which feed it during the summer would have melted away. One only needs to look at geography textbooks to understand the significance of rivers to Indian civilisation. The radiation will be effectively contained within the Indian subcontinent due to the Himalayas on one side and on the other side the mountain ranges in the NWFP of present day pakistan. So china will hardly be affected. There will forever be genetic abnormalities in future Indian generations. This will make it even more difficult for the survivors to rebuild India and it will be even later before they can dream of catching up with USA & china and the rest of the world, who will be inhabiting colonies on Mars before Akhand Bharat can again launch a Chandrayaan. It will be an Akhand Bharat alright, but instead of being a regenerated Bharat, it will be a degenerated Bharat.



IronManForever said:


> UN and Nukes are two sides of a coin. Use nukes and Un will turn their head opposite..


India has a known no-first use policy about nuclear weapons. The world knows that a nuclear war will never be started by India. Every part of the world whose voice actually matters in the UN, is already facing problems caused because of not listening to what India has been saying about pakistan for such a long time. In the event of a nuclear war in the subcontinent, the UN has no reason to turn away from India because pakistan would be the rogue.



hhhgame said:


> this is not the way to deal the situation, remember that pak is a nuke capale country, and there are very high chances that these terrorists will be having the same nuke weapons, recently US intel report says it suspects that they may posses nukes.


If terrorists had nukes, they would have used them by now. They don't have them yet. The US intel report says that the greatest threat of nuclear and biological terrorism comes from pakistani weapons falling into the hands of such terrorists. It's even more reason for the U.S.A to ensure that pakistani nukes are safe, which in turn is better for India. But pakistan will never allow, even the USA, to take control of its nukes. They would rather engage in a nuclear war with India or proliferate those nukes to terrorists. So its in India's interest not to wait for the US to do something but to go in and ensure its own security. India cannot be secure as long as Pok is not integrated with J&K. Because the people in J&K will continue to want to be in contact with people in PoK, so it is a political compulsion to keep the border open. Once we have that territory we can seal off the border with pakistan if we deem it necessary and not have to worry about people in J&K willing to compromise India's security with their desire to be in contact with their relatives in PoK. This will not guarantee India's security against nuclear terrorism but it will go a very long way in making it as difficult as possible.

Today had Pok been under India's control, we would have had direct land access to Afghanistan and the oil rich countries of central asia. pakistan would have been geographically cut off from china. The USA would not have had to make pakistan its "most important ally against terror". The USA has had to do that because the only way they can maintain the supply line to their troops in Afghanistan is through pakistani territory. The billions which the USA has given to pakistan would have been India's . But today the situation is completely opposite and it needs to be changed to our advantage.



hhhgame said:


> the solution to this is
> 
> 1. we have a terrorist in our custody that can tell where are the camps
> 2. our intel has very strng proof against terror camps in pak. give all the proof to all the world or best the UN and create a preassure on them to all the countries come under one roof even the pak and destroy their terror camps.


1. It's not possible for him to tell us the exact location of the terrorist camp where he was trained, let alone the location of all the terrorist camps operating out of pakistani controlled territory. Atmost he can only tell us the general location where the camp is located but not the exact coordinates.

2. (Been there, done that, Failed)^n



iNFiNiTE said:


> I have said this earlier and will repeat it again, attacking pak isn't the solution for ending India's woes with terrorism.


pakistan is increasingly becoming the epicenter of international terrorism. In India's case, pakistan is the culprit. There is no need to attack the whole of pakistan. India just has to take control of PoK.


iNFiNiTE said:


> What we have in PoK and other areas as terrorist camps aren't some definitive buildings but makeshift camps. Even if we bomb them, whts the guarantee that they won't spring up elsewhere? Terrorists can be trained in any area of Pak or afghanistan. Do you seriously think that once these camps are destroyed, there won't be any future terrorist attacks?


There are definitive buildings where indoctrination is done. The camps where physical training is imparted are also infrastructure. If we don't have control over PoK and just bombed terrorist camps then they will be setup again but that does not mean we should not bomb those camps, because it will take them time to setup the camps(why do you cut your nails when they keep growing back?). If we did have control over PoK then we can ensure that indoctrination does not happen on the scale at which it is happening now. It will also mean we can club the Kashmiri "freedom struggle" with other such movements in India and classify them as an internal matter. Which country is bothered about the naxalite movement in India? If we destroy a naxalite camp in India, nobody is going to question us as it is our internal matter. But if we destroy even one terrorist camp in PoK then directly or indirectly it will cause a lot of international headache for us because that territory is under pakistani control.


iNFiNiTE said:


> Remember, US with all it's high tech gadgetary and intel  and its 'War on Terror' started -8 years agao couldn't stop the international terrorism menace, couldn't bring an end to Taliban in afghanistan and also got itself stuck in Iraq.


The U.S.A hasn't been able to eradicate international terrorism. Even with all their money and technology, it is too big a task even for them. But the steps which they have taken have ensured that there hasn't been a single attack on mainland U.S since then. The motive for the invasion of Iraq is debatable, but invading Afghanistan, which at that time was the breeding ground for al-qaida is one of the most important steps.


iNFiNiTE said:


> Attacking pakistan now would be playing directly into hands of LeT and ISI. They WANT India to attack those areas so they can unite in the name of an aggression from India and shift the focus from the northern front of pakistan where the pak troops have to wage a war against their own home bred terrorists under US pressure. Pak already used a hoax call as an excuse to shift many troops to its border with India and started preparing for a so-called incoming attack, Imagine what they would do if there are real surgical strikes.


Even better for India to the turn the tables on pakistan. India has very good relations with Iran. We are*(or already done)* building a road which will help us access Afghanistan via Iran. Should pakistan threaten to divert( or divert) troops to the Indo-pak border on account of aggression by India, India should pledge to send in(or send in) an equal number of troops into Afghanistan to help NATO forces in the war on terror. With India's mediation, it will not be impossible for the USA and Iran to come to an agreement on supply lines for NATO forces in Afghanistan via Iran, considering that Iran also has a lot to gain from this. This move by India will ensure that the USA is not dependent on pakistan for the war on terror and are still able to exert and maintain diplomatic, economic as well as military pressure on pakistan. Another advantage will be that in a PoK conflict, pakistan will be less inclined to divert troops to the Indo-pak border when it has Indian troops on its western border as well.


iNFiNiTE said:


> I would say that yes, its high time that we beef up our own security. Instead of attacking pak which won't stop future terrorist attacks, we should spend money on our modernizing our police and improving the Intelligence networks. Enhancing the security cover in all cities, federal agencies to tackle terror, ensuring better cooperation between all security agencies etc would be a rational thing to do.


Agreed that we definitely need to beef up our internal security. But installing a firewall on one system while there is an infecting system on the lan will just not be enough. No matter how strong the firewall, eventually it will be bypassed. You have to clean up the infector while simultaneously improving the defenses of the infectee. 


iNFiNiTE said:


> As for the people- Stop giving bribes to policemen to get away from security checks/toll tax barriers or get things done faster for you. It's corruption and slacking at the job by persons responsible for security, that makes things easy for terrorists in their evil plans.


A corrupt man will always find a way to be corrupt even in the most honest of societies...and an honest man can also be forced to become corrupt if his honesty does not help pay the bills . So its not only corruption which is a problem. Eg. If security forces were paid better, they would be more motivated to avoid corruption and stop taking money to allow illegal immigrants into India. But if the people who risk their lives are being paid less than our MLA's and MP's then what else should we expect.


iNFiNiTE said:


> And even if we fire away tens of nukes at their cities, it won't end the nuke war coz nuclear missile launchers aren't kept in cities but in remote places which could be used to launch further strikes. So any war which even has a remote possiblity to escalate into a nuclear war is a Strict NO-NO.


It is not necessary to take out pakistani nukes with Indian nukes. The U.S.A and India can engage in conventional strikes to take out atleast some number of pakistani nukes. Assuming that pakistan is able to launch every single nuclear weapon, there is still a *fixed limit* to how many nuclear strikes pakistan can launch. 

[a] If pakistan was to launch nuclear strikes on Indian military assets then India's nuclear strikes will not be against pakistani cities(atleast not until absolutely required). The first retaliatory strikes will be directed towards whatever nuclear arsenal they have remaining(if they even reserve any for later) and then against their already weak(compared to India) conventional military. This further limits the number of nuclear strikes by pakistan. 

* If pakistan would be foolish enough to exhaust their nuclear arsenal and launch a nuclear strike primarily(or only) against Indian cities, there would be no need for India to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike against pakistani cities. We can just as easily defeat pakistan with conventional forces(with a few nuclear strikes) and conserve our nuclear strength as a deterrent against any chinese opportunism during the war. That means we would then be able to use pakistani resources to rebuild what we would lose in a pakistani nuclear strike.

[c] If pakistan was to launch nuclear strikes against all Indian assets(cities, military etc.), even in that scenario they will be limited to how much of India they can take out before...So any nuclear strike by pakistan will result in their complete and utter defeat. 

If India plays it correctly, then in the current situation, both heads & tails can be ours. What we do need is the right political will and for the common people of India to have the heart to take the enemy's punches before we get the opportunity to go in for the KO(knockout).

The people of India, who live in cities should have the least to fear about a nuclear war. If your city is hit, you will be vaporised long before your skin can signal to your brain that you are burning up. It's only those who feel they have a high chance of surviving a nuclear war with pakistan, who have to be worried. The rest of you need not & should not let the fear of a nuclear war stop you from calling for military action by India to take control of PoK, bindaas rehne ka, bole toh...live free and die hard! 



dreamcatcher said:



			India doesnt have the horsepower to floor Pakistan, and thats a fact. Imagine the amount of destruction it shall cause to the Indian subcontinent if the terrorists retort bck with missiles and fighter plnes of their own?? The militants are nothing but a rogue arm of the ISI, who gives a gurantee that Pakistan wont nuke us?? 

If in the course of the attack, China decides to run amock, what shall be our plight??? We cant attack them unless we have heavy backing from all quarters, which as of now, seems a distant possibility..
		
Click to expand...

Barring nukes, the fact is that India does have good conventional military superiority, probably even enough to reintegrate pakistan into India. Even if we assume we don't have conventional military superiority to reintegrate the whole of pakistan into India, we still have more than enough to take over control of PoK. Terrorists don't have fighter planes. LTTE is the only terrorist organisation to have its own fledgling airforce.

This conventional superiority gap has been narrowing over the years. The longer we wait, the smaller the window of opportunity. Today their airforce cannot compete with ours let alone their navy. So even incase of a full-n-final nuclear war we will still be left with enough to completely annihilate pakistan and still rebuild ourselves. But tomorrow the situation could be completely different. They will be able to increase their nuclear arsenal and improve delivery systems to the point beyond which even India will not be able to rebuild itself incase of a nuclear war. Once we reach that point and we still don't have control of PoK, then there is absolutely no hope for India and her people to live without the fear of terrorism. Because then it will not be possible for us to take any military action even if we madly wanted to and without Indian control over PoK, terrorism will never end for Indians.

India enjoys the same nuclear non-strike guarantee which china does, in the event that china should try to take control over the disputed border areas through a conventional military attack. PoK is disputed territory. pakistan has been foolish enough to harbour terrorism to reach its goals, but they are not foolish enough to engage in a nuclear strike over disputed territory. As long as India maintains its no-first use policy and keeps the military strike restricted to a battle for PoK and not a war for the state of pakistan, India can be assured of having to engage only conventional and irregular pakistani military forces. Only when pakistan's existence is threatened will they nuke India. PoK is more of an obsession for pakistan and a means to achieve a more devious objective. They think since they have 1/3rd of the state, they can gain control over the remaining territory by waging a proxy war. If we control PoK and J&K, then over time they will accept it and focus their energy on building pakistan instead of destroying India and so will the people of J&K(the high turnout in the current elections in J&K is an indication of this). The lowest turnout in J&K elections have been in districts where people still live (literally) in huts made of stones and scraps, without electricity, piped water etc. The very basic things which we take for granted in our day to day lives. All this can be changed but again we need the right political will. (This is where the "social scheming" of pro-hindutva parties fails miserably )

Our politicians keep talking of how a stable pakistan is in India's interest. But it is the opposite which is true. More stable pakistan is, better its economy, better its conventional military vis-a-vis India, more potent will be its nuclear arsenal and EVEN MORE will be their support for terrorism directed towards India. Even if in some alternate universe we consider giving the whole of J&K to pakistan, it will not stop terrorism emanating from pakistan. pakistan will then try to divide India further and further until pakistan is the largest country in the subcontinent.

On the other hand we cannot even be sure pakistan will not nuke us even without any military provocation on our part.



			It is well known that Pakistan does not have a “No First Use Policy.” Pakistani nuclear weapons will be used, according to Gen. Kidwai, only “if the very existence of Pakistan as a state is at stake.” This has been detailed by Gen. Kidwai as follows:

“Nuclear weapons are aimed solely at India. In case that deterrence fails, they will be used if 

a. India attacks Pakistan and conquers a large part of its territory (space threshold)

b. India destroys a large part either of its land or air forces (military threshold)

c. India proceeds to the economic strangling of Pakistan (economic strangling)

d. India pushes Pakistan into political destabilization or creates a large scale internal subversion in Pakistan (domestic destabilization)

Click to expand...

We already hear of all the nonsense anti-India propaganda by the pakistani media. What is to stop them from blaming India(which they already do) for pakistan's continued economic and domestic instability and coming up with propaganda to cultivate public opinion for a war against India? They don't even need public opinion for that. India could be hit by a pre-emptive nuclear strike when pakistan may be undergoing an economic collapse or intense domestic strife, at a time when we would not even be expecting it. And it will be a nuclear strike if pakistan starts the war, because starting a conventional war against India is futile for them.

If India thinks what happened in Mumbai is an equivalent of the 9/11 terrorist attack, then you are sorely mistaken. The scale and scope of 9/11 just cannot be compared to 26/11. What happened in Mumbai was only a test run on India. India's 9/11 is still to come and soon. It will be deadlier than anything which has happened anywhere in the world. Considering the appalling state of security in India, it could even be a pakistani pre-emptive strike disguised as nuclear terrorism. Those who advocate not going to war against pakistan are right, however taking no military action is nothing but signing of our last will as a civilisation.

Even though some time has passed and the heat has dissipated somewhat but its not gone completely, so we still have time to act. Even if we don't act now, if there is one thing India needs to learn from what happened in Mumbai, its the fact that an even deadlier terrorist strike will happen and when that happens, India should be ready with its military action plan to immediately take control of PoK and to deal with any consequences thereafter.

"Strike while the iron is hot"

...or wait for the blue boy to descend for the final time...*


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 11, 2008)

@afonofa sach sach bata bhai yeh post tune kitne weeks mein likhi? Koi competition chal raha hai kya. 

Edit karke neeche summary likh yaar.


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## afonofa (Dec 11, 2008)

^^ _thoda zyada hogya_...

I was thinking about posting in this thread for quite some time and in meanwhile many people had their say. So I wanted to agree/disagree with whatever had been already said and put forth my view as well.

Summary: Even according to pakistan's ex-president Pervez Musharraf, the whole of J&K (PoK + J&K) is the root cause of all the friction between India and pakistan. India gains control over PoK and everybody goes back to getting on with their lives.


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## Plasma_Snake (Dec 11, 2008)

But going for PoK means an all out war which we can't have right now so the only solution is going deceitfully, carrying out Sabotage and Surgical CT Ops in PoK, not even in proper Pak as any incident there can give Pak and its media unnecessary leverage. Even the Jew brothers are out with us on this.


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## pr.itdude (Dec 11, 2008)

@ afonofa.....yar r u in some kind of security agency or journalism......??
itni details kaha se mili.........??


afonofa said:


> ^^ _thoda zyada hogya_...



jyada to hona hi tha.............jab baat pak aur india k aati hai to itne sare matters hai resolve karne k liye k 1 din lag jaye post karne me....!!!

but anyways, good to see such kind of vast cons n pros of this war kind issue......

In case of first use of nukes, Pak also knows that if they will use nukes 
,,,, then definitely india too. In that case Pak will get more affected (infact almost destroyed) not India (a little bit as compard to Pak)........
So Pak will not gonna to think of nukes..........

regarding, PoK....yes this would be the best tym when we can get *our own kashmir* back.........
just launch a military mission, no nukes, destroy all the camps of terrorists there and free the PoK from pakistan................
infact jo hamara hai use hum kyu na le....??
r v idiots....? v have donated a gr8 part of our India to the cruel ppls who r using it against us............!!!!
see the Kasmir, how beautiful it is.....!!
There should be nothing like PoK, its only to be Jammu & Kashmir of India.

And yes, there is an urge situation to make India strong from inside, the forces, intel must be so strong that these attacks must be prevented....!!
---------


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## vasanth.kingofthehill (Dec 11, 2008)

The Pak's got nothing to lose and eveything to gain.They themselves dont know who's running their country.Secondly we ve to blame as much as on ourselves for the current fiasco.Wat were the damn intelligence agency doing why the hell are they even getting paid for.By the way did u read bout the MPs from CPI(M) dining in the restaurant when the attack took place.I'm sure who paid for their dinner.So much for their socialist agenda.The US called it our 9/11 .Compare their response to our response.The Jamaat Ud Dawa got banned.Hell they can change their name tomorrow and start working again.We are targeting the wrong area.Who's financing them......Not the ISI the dont ve enough money to pay themselves.Its the work for our intelligence agency's  to find out and BTW attacking pakistan will get us into a quagmire.Jus look at North western frontier province of pakistan.Their own army cant quell the unrest.Well u can think wat'll happen to our army.Best to increase our readiness level to catch wat ever they throw at us


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## iNFiNiTE (Dec 11, 2008)

I don't understand how people take the issue of nukes so lightly, like how pak would be obliterated but India would be left with little or moderate amount of damage. The WMDs which we have today are many many times powerful than what were used in Hiroshima & Nagasaki. Even the detonation of a single nuke would result in millions of lost lives, not mention to property and future after effects. In the event of a nuclear war, there would be no political leadership left and god knows what will be the status of the armed forces. A scenario where a third country can easily exploit whatever is left of Indo-Pak.

Reading some of the posts, I'm suddenly thankful for the lack of political will in our leadership ( If the alternative is a group of hotshot politicians taking rash decisions leading to a nuclear war resulting in a national harakiri on an unimaginable scale.)

Anyways, I found two great articles. Read them completely and you will find yourself immensely informed and being able to think rationally:

‘Attacking Pakistan will not solve terrorism’
_The second page of the article has some very good questions and answers._

'Let anger not turn into hate'


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## vasanth.kingofthehill (Dec 11, 2008)

@Infinite........... dont u think the lack of political will is making us a sitting duck target.The answer is definitely not nukes but neither is war wat we need is to strengthen up our defences.Quotes from the 'The Hindu'.The last time a policeman practiced shootin was 15 years ago .Most of our policemen dont know to shoot straight.The ELITE ATS squad has never had shooting practice for the past year.CNN reported that the police officers jus did't know wat to do.The problems lie within us.Most of the NSG commandos are being utilized as personal security cordon of our political masters.Their specialization being hostage situations their skills are wasted protecting VIPS


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## pr.itdude (Dec 12, 2008)

yup.......!! thats really the problem in India....
specialised forces commandos are treated like as servants.............!!
how do they protect us or even thinking of doing that.....???
the mumbai policemen event though dont have a firing range......!!
almost 60 % constables didnt even picked a rifle since their posting....!!
(media sources...!!!)


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## threeonethree (Dec 12, 2008)

india needs many more attacks on its cities and parliament to fully wake up.
i think india is fully responsible for the terrorist attacts on its cities. It failed miserably to act tackle pakistan diplomatically, and when it was attacted it failed again to tackle the terrorists..


but i am against killing of innocents


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## iNFiNiTE (Dec 12, 2008)

@vasanth.kingofthehill:

Thats what I have been trying to say, strengthening our internal security should be our first priority to protect the innocent lives. Speeding up defence deals, modernizing the police should be the need of the hour.

Providing security cover to politicians in Delhi alone requires spending a sizeable chunk of taxpayer's money. According to a report, around 30% of these politicians don't even require security cover, they just use it as a status symbol. Another 50% are being provided with more than necessary cover. Those who can afford should pay for their own security.

Apart from the news headings which you gave, there have been one which said that Bomb squad and some commondo units in UP are being used to control Traffic !!! WTF.


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## pr.itdude (Dec 12, 2008)

really WTF..........!!!
they're not gonna to understand that.............!!!
nothing will change....!!! and this is the reality.....!!
<i am afraid, but i hav to say that......>
sorry guys, i am making a pessimistic statement here.......!! but truth is bitter....!! 
As soon as media get a new issue to flash on "breaking news"......they all will forgot this....!!!
they r also just making money out of it..........!!!


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## mrintech (Dec 12, 2008)

When all you all the truths. So why discussing???

No war gonna happen or no war initiative will be taken. Remember there are always countries and organizations ready to suppress these kind of situations.  

A single attack will bring *Third World War* and we all and Digit servers will be destroyed  

Phir kaun/kab/kahan/kaise discussion hoga


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## pr.itdude (Dec 13, 2008)

so is this end of this discussion with these quotes.........??


pr.itdude said:


> nothing will change....!!! and this is the reality.....!!
> <i am afraid, but i hav to say that......>
> sorry guys, i am making a pessimistic statement here.......!! but truth is bitter....!!
> As soon as media get a new issue to flash on "breaking news"......they all will forgot this....!!!
> they r also just making money out of it..........!!!





mrintech said:


> No war gonna happen or no war initiative will be taken. Remember there are always countries and organizations ready to suppress these kind of situations.
> A single attack will bring *Third World War* and we all and Digit servers will be destroyed


.......

india will always remain gandhian INDIA where only talks happen...........
no action........


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## Ecstasy (Dec 24, 2008)

Today Pak defense minister announced that there won't be any use of nuclear weapons if a war is to happen. Honestly, I don't trust their any saying. 

A war is likely to happen and I also think it should happen cause we all know that Pakistan had been making promises since decades about fighting terrorism and other **** but nothing has come out of it except for false promises. So this time i really feel India should take matters in their own hands and destroy their terrorist camps.

But, we should also keep this thing in our mind that even they are not a weak country in terms of military power cause US has been aiding them since years and years. I also heard that the LeT commander has given out an announcement that they will fight along with the Pakistan military to defend their nation and he also said that they got their 'thousands' of suicide bombers ready if need be. So it will be a great loss to us also if war happens. I guess in the end only time will tell us what will happen...

Till then lets hope for the best.


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## Plasma_Snake (Dec 24, 2008)

Arrey if War happens than Terrorists will join Pak against India and they'll probably use the nuke and both Pak Army and Govt. will say that we didn't do it! Limey B@$t@rds.


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 24, 2008)

Taliban already said in case of war with india they will support pakistan. Khullam khula war kare war kare


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## Mystic (Dec 24, 2008)

Plasma_Snake said:


> Arrey if War happens than Terrorists will join Pak against India and they'll probably use the nuke and both Pak Army and Govt. will say that we didn't do it! Limey B@$t@rds.



Taliban? They would also send suicide bomber army through some ways to India.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 24, 2008)

ok,first thing first-WAR IS NEVER A SOLUTION,NEVER!

Wars are not what we have been reading on our history books,ok we have 6k soldiers and you have just 2k,we are gonna own joo ass!.Its the age of nukes and missiles,It doesn't matter how big your army is and what fighter planes you have.Had this been a conventional war scenario,India would have taken over whole of pakistan in about a week,owing to technical superiority of our air force.But thats not the point.

Indian nuke button is in civilian hands and we have the famous 'no first strike',pakistan on the other hand has its nuke button completely into army's hands(who care about the president?).

Pakistan has nothing to loose at this point of time,they know they have the WMD and it will take real guts(and idiocy) for any country to attack it.Economically pak. is dead,while India is still thriving at this time of global recession.What do you think is gonna happen to India in case of a war?Back to stone age with nothing to eat or wear.

Now,if you have been following news,when pranab mukherjee said "we will take unilateral actions if pakistan doesn't act inspite of world pressure",their defense minister swiftly replied "god forbid if we have to use nuke".lol,thats blunt and hard!

I guess you people don't realize whats a nuke war is gonna be like,no sun for dont know how many years or even decades,various kinds of cancers,no clean water to drink among the major consequencies.

go watch "how I learnt to stop worrying about the bomb and start living" or something like that movie,it truly depicts how the nuke warfare logic works,the hell if you attack,the hell if you don't.

if a war happens?India attacks pakistan--->pakistan uses nukes eventually(most of them would be distroyed by indian air force already,but not all)--->most prominent Indian cities and states gone--->pakistan burns to ashes in minutes--->95% fo all people die--->wee! china has been waiting,they take over all whats left--->US clears whats left of taliban and afganistan-->US and China make marry--India and pakistan are wiped off the face of the worldmap.

what could possibly be done in this situation?
1.Internal security and Intelligence?I mean come on poeple,10 amateur(they actually believed they can make it out!) noobs travelled thousands of miles and attacked the heart of a major city with grenades and ak47,just imagine how many potential barriers they crossed and no one had any clue..

2.Support Pakistani democracy.Pakistani govt. is not our foe,our foe are some extremist religious elements and the out of control pakistani army,let the democracy cycle for 10-15 years,good people will come up and hopefully things would be better.There is no such thing like control and law right now in pakistan and democracy is sure addictive as hell.

3.fair media.Lately Indian TV media has been worse than Pakistani media,all they feed people is utter BS most of this is just 'lol'able.Most people are what they see,and that is the sad part.Zombies they have become,especially pakistani masses owing to all the BS they have been fed right from their birth.

Its just amazing how can you make poeple kill(and die) others on the name of religion and country.Soldiers returning from war are the biggest supporters of peace and non-violence.

and as a general observation : support for war is directly proportional to distance from the warplace and inversely to the chances of you getting involved in it.US people\govt. are most likely to say "go India,**** Pakistan",but its our land that the war will be fought.

I still believe,both the countries can live peacefully.I strongly doubt if pakistani govt. knew about the attacks or had any hand in it,nor do I think its the ISI or army's handiwork.Its all a bunch of religious manipulators and some thousand of brainwashed people,which all can be dealt with amicably by both countries which would be in the best interests of both countries.

as for pakistan,they should really work towards strengthening their economy,mommy US is providing alms as long as they need them,stop spending billions on armed forces.Nobody cares about how many nukes you have when most your population is hungry.

amen,and OH btw!i wouldn't know about the war anyways,I would be dead before the next day papers circulate(in case they do).Better than suffering from the nuke aftermath.:<


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## pr.itdude (Dec 24, 2008)

i was offline since morning and had no plan to be online......!!(as my xms r going on!)
But since i heard the news of pakistan sena taking position at the indian border, at badhmare in rajasthan being precise...........i decided to restart this thread in which v were disscussing abt the situation of war........!!

But the other digitians have already posted, thats very gud..........
The BSF chief recently said that pakistan force "the pak sena" have been deployed on the rajasthan border, instead of pak rangers. This indicates that they were all set for the war......!!
And continuing the word war b/w ind-pak, the Air force chief (i dont remember the rank of officer, so im saying chief..) said _"hum sirf 4 ghante me pakistan ko sabak sikha sakte hai"_. According to news sources, indian air force had almost 5000 targets in their mind where to attack directly if pak shows any notorious movement.

Here we discussed all the effects n side effects of war........
but now the situations seems that the war cant be ignored...
And the most imp thing is that, pak is now putting pressure on india by deploying there forces on border signifying not to threat them, they r ready if ind talks anything abt war.

But the fact is that ......_Ye kaam hame karna chahiye tha taki pak par aur pressure dal sake, lekin pak humse 1 kadam age nikla_ and deployed their forces........Earlier pak fighter air craft also seen flying over the pak cities showing their preparedness of war......!! 

Source : Breaking News on all news channel


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 24, 2008)

I read a report few days ago.Incase of war pakistan will lose their skies within a week to indian jets.It looks as if they have decided they wont accept that kasab is a pakistani.Their media did a sting operation and it proved kasab is from pakistan yet these dumba***** are doing nothing.All these jaahils from pakistan who are becoming terrorists should look what happened to these 10 terrorists.Noone is ready to take their dead bodies.Even pakistan denies that they are not pakistani what a shame.
Allah ki panah mein chale thay na zameen naseeb hogi na aasmaan toh allah ki panaah kahan se milegi?Inke toh kafan tak humein leke dene parte hai.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 24, 2008)

^^they get their 72 virgins atleast!


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## Ecstasy (Dec 25, 2008)

The never ending discussion goes on and on and on....


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## afonofa (Dec 25, 2008)

> Our government’s policy of restraint should not be viewed as an act of cowardice.
> 
> - pakistani information minister Sherry Rehman


The comments made by pakistani govt. officials reek of hypocrisy. Who has been excercising restraint and trying to bridge the divide all these years, India or pakistan? 

Yesterday I saw part of a video of pakistani president saying something like _"...finally we have got this muslim nation and we will not give it up till the last drop of blood..."_

I think it was just day before yesterday, when 3 terrorists were arrested in J&K - 2 were jaish-e-mohammed irregulars and one is a pakistani army regular. So irrespective of what pakistani govt. says, they will never stop promoting terrorism against India. J&K issue is only an excuse, not supporting terrorism goes against their true motives - disintegration of India. We shouldn't give them the luxury of that excuse.

We cannot even be sure pakistan has nuclear weapons which can be actually used in a war. Even if they do, today pakistan only has a first strike nuclear capability through their land based missiles and their F-16 fighter jets. These can be neutralized to a large extent(if not completely) by the IAF or through properly coordinated covert operations. Tomorrow when they acquire submarine launched ballistic missiles and maybe a nuclear submarine, it will give them a virtually guaranteed second strike capability. Then it will be too late for India to take absolutely any military action. 

It may already be too late for India to do so. Just look at Israel, their airforce has already been reported to be preparing for air strikes to cripple Iran's nuclear programme. There is no way Israel would ever allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons. If our politicians had any foresight, they would have destroyed pakistan's first nuclear reactor during the time china was helping to build it. Our politicians gave into the threat and fear of tit-for-tat pakistani air strikes on existing Indian nuclear reactors and ever since we are suffering because of that show of cowardice.

It's not as if India and pakistan have assembled their nukes and armed their missiles. If that happens, then you know that _mahavinaash_(armageddon) is right around the corner.

Deploying Indian troops forward like last time, costs a lot of money and the GOI is not sure whether they want to pursue the military option or not. So atleast the GOI is saving some money if not face . Let pakistan spend their money, flying F-16's over their own cities. If their fighters are to be flying anywhere then it should have been close to the border and not displaying acrobatic maneuvers over their own cities. From the video of those fighters its clear that they are only putting on a show for the people below and are not really training defensive missions. There was even a video of an F-16 from the cockpit of another jet, its wingman. Which fighter pilot carries a video camera and shoots videos, if on training missions?

I don't understand why the GOI says _"all options are on the table"_ and the next day they say _"we will not pursue the military option"_. pakistan's stance has changed considerably, going from being defensive to offensive, from the time India indicated that it is most likely to *not* pursue the military option. Our news channels are equally bad if not worse. In the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attack, they were calling for military action and now when pakistan has upped the ante, our news channels are focusing on why there is so much war hysteria in pakistan. 

Only silver lining is the pakistani defense minister being even more foolish by saying that there won't be any use of nuclear weapons in the event of war. A case of India batting badly and the opposition batting even worse .

pakistan did not even accept the bodies of soldiers of the pakistani army who were killed masqerading as kashmiri militants during the kargil conflict. There was no question of pakistan ever accepting the bodies of those 9 terrorists who were killed. The longer those bodies are in India, the more the chances of them being buried on India soil . I say since we *must not* allow them to be buried on Indian soil and if pakistan is not willing to accept those bodies, then the only alternative is to give them a burial at sea because that's where they came from. And NO! It does not have to be an honourable burial in any sense of the term. No need to prolong the decision on those  terrorist's bodies and give a chance for pakistani propaganda to turn them into martyrs, like that terrorist involved in the attack on the Indian Parliament(who still has not been hanged).


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## Plasma_Snake (Dec 25, 2008)

Let Pakistan run around chasing its own tail, we'll just keep our guard up and continue with our lives. First, if somebody finds Manmohan's pair please do return it to him if u r expecting some action from him.


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## kanishka (Dec 25, 2008)

Dont india have any patriot missiles for nukes??

Also if war takes place than India would be in bigger loss than pakistan since India is one of the fastest developing country and undoubtedly after nukes it would take more than 50 years to regain its position and till that time there will be many new threats like China.Who knows that if they progress very fast than they wont attack us..Always remember,India is the biggest rival of China in every aspect.There was a report of UN body indicating that in 2025 China will be at top followed by India and then US...Attacking is not the solution at all...If and ever India want to reach the top 3 in world then they must avoid conflict and wars...We must pressurise pakistan to act and even ask international communities like UN to force pakistan to act against terrorism and they should even allow India to act..We have to just enter the scenario and take responsibility ourselves..We have to strengthen our internal security..'Also remember Jungle mein ek chingari hi aag lagane ke liye kafi hoti hai'..We must act and now the time is appropriate..People who really want something to change than they have to change themselves...Remember "Charity Begins at Home"..Goverment must also take proper steps so that people can be safe...I read in newspaper that normally in country there should be 600 policemen for 100k people but in India it is only 200 something

It is hilarious as we see that..Anyways even young generation can enter politics and change the corruption inside it..There are many options apart from war to solve this problem..


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## pr.itdude (Dec 25, 2008)

ya we all here, infact no indian wants war..........and we have showed that bcoz if we would have wanted any scenario like that then indian would have done it.....its a month now....!!!

But what if pak as we r seeing now, trying to attack on us........??they r making war like situation so that the indian pressure gets diverted........


kanishka said:


> Dont india have any patriot missiles for nukes??
> 
> Also if war takes place than India would be in bigger loss than pakistan



See,if india got 50% loss, then pak will no more b a country........it will be a bankrupt nation that will b under talibanis control......!!! Our economy is more stronger than pak.......also pak is more affected by economic recession,,,,,and we r least......so we can recover it......!!
i am not saying that we will attack first, but if they do..... then this tym, we should get our PoK atleast free from them..........!!


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## nix (Dec 26, 2008)

@afonofa... do you think the US would allow china to control pakistan's N weapons??


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 26, 2008)

kanishka said:


> Dont india have any patriot missiles for nukes??


we don't exactly have patriot missile(used widely in gulf war) defence system but we have SAM 300 which is slightly better than patriot,we might even have the latest SAM 400.We also have our home made prithvi while pakistan has none to very basic missile defence system.But in any case none of them is sufficient in case of nuke wareheads.Max. range of engagement is 300km which isn't just good enough for nukes.


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## afonofa (Dec 27, 2008)

nix said:


> do you think the US would allow china to control pakistan's N weapons??


They couldn't do anything about it when china gave nuclear tech to pakistan and china today is not the china back then, ditto the case with the USA. china has nuclear weapons and ICBM's(intercontinental ballstic missiles) with which it can deter the USA to a large extent. If pakistan and china mutually agreed to a transfer of control of pakistan's nuclear arsenal to china, then there is nothing the USA can do about it. 

Contrary to that India has possibly scrapped our ICBM program, *Surya*, so as to not threaten western nations. But we are working on the 5000 km range *Agni-V* (direct jump from Agni-III* or Agni-IV) which will help ensure that India does not have to deploy Agni-III close to our eastern border(to deter china). True that we don't need ICBM's today but who can predict the future and since we probably have the technology, why not develop an ICBM just to show off .

If china does have control of pakistani nukes then it's even more dangerous for India. In a situation like we are in today, china could launch pakistan's nukes at India and the resultant Indo-pak(proxy china) nuclear war would effectively terminate any Indian challenge to chinese dominance in Asia and on the world stage.

pakistan may be foolish enough to consider china as an ally and India as the enemy but to their credit, pakistan will not give up control of their nuclear weapons to china or the USA. Definitely not the USA. If they did that then pakistan would be reduced to being a vassal of the USA.

If pakistan does have nuclear weapons then the control is firmly with pakistan and nobody else. It would be dangerous on our part going in for a fight and underestimating the enemy. So if we launch surgical strikes or take any military action, we have to assume the worst case scenario will come to pass and prepare accordingly. If it turns out that the USA has control of pakistan's nukes then...no harm no foul.

One aspect to consider about aerial strikes on terrorist camps is collateral damage. The USA with all their technology have not been able to escape collateral damage. So if we have a vision for a future, where PoK would be integrated with India(militarily or otherwise) then we have to consider the further alienation which civilian casualties will have on the people in PoK.

Due to the ineptness of our _netas_(all of them), we are already dealing with a china-armed-pakistan on the west, next it's going to be a *china-armed-bangladesh* on the east. If India doesn't reach out, same will be the case with Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bhutan and Myanmar.

Our Prithvi Air Defense anti-ballistic missile had successfully shot down an attacker missile(another Prithvi) in the test. It's an impressive feat to get a direct hit the first time itself *l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/113.gif. But the Prithvi Air Defense is nowhere close to giving us an operational missile defense shield *l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/32.gif.

All Indians have been living under a veil of untruth which has been lifted and today a great truth has been revealed i.e., 
*India was originally a part of pakistan!*


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## Sridhar_Rao (Dec 27, 2008)

Here are some points I would like to summarize:
1) The terrorists who attacked Mumbai were indeed Pakistanis
2) Such an act can't be performed by amateurs, they have been trained by military personnel
3) The extend of role played by Pakistan army, navy and ISI is not fully known
4) The proof of Pakistani connection (Kasab) has been made available to Pakistan, but they stubbornly refuse to accept it.
5) Logically, Pakistan can't accept its role, because if it does so, it would be branded a terrorist nation, they can't do it
6) Pakistan can't deliver the wanted terrorists to India, as these people may spill the beans.
7) Some elements have served American CIA too and they wouldn't want their dirty job to be exposed.
8) Whipping up a war rhetoric is their way to divert attention from real issues of terrorism
9) Pakistan can't attack India, they have no grounds to do so
10) India can attack Pakistan, not because India wants to Punish Pakistan but that Congress has to show that it did something (elections are nearby)
11) A war with Pakistan must have clear objective and must be pursued till those objectives are met
12) A war that lasts few days/weeks and then stopped due to international pressure doesn't serve India's purpose (except Congress)
13) Even if war continues beyond few weeks; Pakistan will be supported covertly by USA and China.
14) India can't win a decisive war over Pakistan under current situations
15) USA has systems in place that can deactivate Indian missile systems and radar systems
16) War is not a solution at all; it will unite all the anti-Indians. The military and the civilian government will join hands
17) Taliban battling Pak troops at Afghan border have volunteered to fight with Pak troops against India in the name of muslim brotherhood
18) World can only provide lip service to India, nothing more
19) It is India's problem, only India can solve it
20) Pakistan had alway perpetuated terrorism in India and will continue to so.
21) It is India's job to heighten its surveillance and protect/tackle terrorist attacks.
22) Corruption prevalent in India only helps terrorists to do anything they please, curbing curroption would be the first step in fighting terrorism.
23) Thanks for participating in my terror poll at www.microrao.com/terror_poll.php


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## napster007 (Dec 27, 2008)

lets just nuke the damn country, get it over with and yeah also capture the whole country....there...all is done!


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## adi007 (Dec 27, 2008)

> 15) USA has systems in place that can deactivate Indian missile systems and radar systems


That's BS.. how can they do that ..?


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## Sridhar_Rao (Dec 27, 2008)

Trust me Adi007, I do not know exactly how they do it..but I can tell you this because someone working with those missile system told me. USA have some jammers or something, which make our missiles useless. And it ain't no BS, man!


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## gaurav_indian (Dec 27, 2008)

Sridhar_Rao said:


> Trust me Adi007, I do not know exactly how they do it..but I can tell you this because someone working with those missile system told me. USA have some jammers or something, which make our missiles useless. And it ain't no BS, man!



And can they also do it with pakistani missiles?


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 27, 2008)

Sridhar_Rao said:


> Trust me Adi007, I do not know exactly how they do it..but I can tell you this because someone working with those missile system told me. USA have some jammers or something, which make our missiles useless. And it ain't no BS, man!



yea,right!


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## paid (Dec 27, 2008)

It is a very embarrassing for us that we have not yet taken any step nor responded strongly against terrorist camps and pak threatening daily. Just imagine Mr. Pranab asking Pak for ISI chief and was refused, all options open & we don't want war, Terrorist list-rejected, Dawood living free there. what image is created in world of our leaders in top seat like manmohan Singh & Pratibha patil have no courage and confidence to express strongly on any issues. why culprits like Afzal and all previous attacks not sentenced? why we still using _kabaar_ 303 rifles that have been discontinued by British after World War? officially more than 60000 casualties_(reuters)_ due to these terrorists so far are'nt we already at war? We definitely missing strong leaders like Subhash, Sanjay Gandhi, Indira Gandhi. Every criminal has confidence in Indian law, politics & corruption that no matter what you do nothing will happen unless you comes in gun range of Indian Military. Now next elections are due and again a probability of coalition government thus all decisions taken by such government be under pressure and threatening and support withdrawl by coalition. why we are not given a choice to choose a disciplined military rule where corruption is the least? atleast every criminal, mafia or corrupt persons have fear that he wont be spared. it is need of our country to have courageous & matured blood in politics thereby making us feel being a proud Indian in the world.......but I know dreams never comes true


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## nix (Dec 28, 2008)

@afonofa: interesting post..

actually, when china gave nuc-tech to pakistan, the time was befre 9/11 and pakistan was quite stable. my thought is, US didnt do anything is, coz they didnt have any slight idea that pakistan is going to turn on them (they still dont realise that). and US at that time was just not bothered about the kashmir issue. they were prolly still upset with us coz we took russia's side during the cold war. 

this is actually pretty confusing as, before george bush came to power, he said that china was a strategic competitor. afterwards, US didnt seem to do anything to counteract china's power. china is unstoppable now. india is the only country in this region that can actually kind of stand up to any chinese aggression. all our neighbours will either take their side or fall like matchsticks. its time for us put our act together and buy some stuff for our military. 

its surprising why US is not doing anything to contain china's rise.. isnt one superpower supposed to stop another emerging one??. there is no doubt now, china is after the #1 title.


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## Sridhar_Rao (Dec 28, 2008)

Bit off the topic I must say, but yes, China is unstoppable. USA had always tried getting dirty to prevent that but they couldn't. Russians know they can't either, so they are getting friendlier. There is no power in this region that can hold up China, not even India.  India can never win a war with China, should that happen. This is not my assessment but from someone working in Indian Air Force.


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## Ecstasy (Dec 28, 2008)

If you can't beat them, join them right?


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## Faun (Dec 28, 2008)

Asia is ruled by China and Russia 
I hope Russians will help us when China supports Pak.

A war will send us decades back in progress.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 28, 2008)

,the world of "geopolitics"

India pwn Pakistan
China pwn both India and Pakistan
USA pwn Pakistan
China pwn USA,:O
India+USA pwn Pakistan+China
Russia+India pwn China
China pwn Russia
Pakistan pwn None
China pwn ALL
USA gets pwned anyway
Russia doesn't get pwn anyway


Moral:India and Pakistan are dead meat in all possibilities,while China replaces USA for teh #1 spot,if USA wants to survive,she better STFU already.Russia can take over EU for a while,china being busy in Indian sub-continent and USA,then China takes over the rest of the world.


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## Faun (Dec 28, 2008)

^^Is it happening anytime soon...crossing fingers


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 28, 2008)

^^sooner than you think.


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## napster007 (Dec 28, 2008)

lets the nuke the idiots!


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## Sridhar_Rao (Dec 29, 2008)

There is a saying in Hindi which goes like this, "_jo sheeshe ke gharon mein rehte hain, woh doosron ke ghar pattar nahin phekte_".

We can nuke them, but can they not nuke us in retaliation? Present day nukes are more powerful than the ones dropped on Japan. The casualty can be unfathomable. 

Nuclear weapon is a curse against humanity and must never never be used on the planet earth.

No war of any kind can defeat the spirit of determined minds, these Taliban militia are war-hardened people. Even if the army is defeated in a conventional war, who can stop the guerilla attacks against us? The mighty USA is still struggling to contain the resugent Taliban.

War is not an option, there can't be a military solution. Curbing corruption and strengthening our own intelligence and counter-terrorism measures only can protect us.


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## pr.itdude (Dec 29, 2008)

Sridhar_Rao said:


> War is not an option, there can't be a military solution. Curbing corruption and strengthening our own intelligence and counter-terrorism measures only can protect us.



I agree........
but its our responsibility too....as an indian citizen that we help the gov strengthening india....
There r a lot of instances (generally very small) that we ignore and contribute to anti-social things......like corruption, security negligience.......
I qoute one instance....!
most of us caught by traffic police for not obeying traffic rules like not wearing helmet, jumping red light etc etc....atleast once...!!
But in that situation what we do, instead of paying the _challan_...we offer bribe to the officer, which he is also waiting for....!!

This mentality must be changed.......otherwise these wars n talks of national security is just nonsense...!!
First we have to change ourselves, our mindsets then only india will change.....as india is made of us...
Most of the ppl think this is a filmy or speech something like that........
But i am serious here........and i decided not to contribute in anything that  increase the negativity in society.....!!

*You can also quote what more we can do.......*like not giving bribe to any govt officer, i'll caste my vote, help in security checkings etc etc 
like i just quoted above..!!
After all, we all have to unite together.....!!


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## abhijangda (Dec 29, 2008)

afonofa said:


> They couldn't do anything about it when china gave nuclear tech to pakistan and china today is not the china back then, ditto the case with the USA. china has nuclear weapons and ICBM's(intercontinental ballstic missiles) with which it can deter the USA to a large extent. If pakistan and china mutually agreed to a transfer of control of pakistan's nuclear arsenal to china, then there is nothing the USA can do about it.
> 
> Contrary to that India has possibly scrapped our ICBM program, *Surya*, so as to not threaten western nations. But we are working on the 5000 km range *Agni-V* (direct jump from Agni-III* or Agni-IV) which will help ensure that India does not have to deploy Agni-III close to our eastern border(to deter china). True that we don't need ICBM's today but who can predict the future and since we probably have the technology, why not develop an ICBM just to show off .
> 
> ...


i have read what has been written in this last link. I cant understand what they are teaching them why. if i would have been superman or spiderman or any other super hero then i would have killed all those textbooks writters who have written all this.


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## Ronnie11 (Dec 29, 2008)

to all those people who are appealing to nuke pakistan,first of all this cannot happen as india has a no first use policy.second thing is y the hell do u want pak to be nuked??Lemme get one point straight,the pak people are not our enemies,its the dueshbag pak ISI,the military(which controls the nukes & not the civilian govt) & to some extent the politicians.So do not punish the innocents.I am happy that india has not declared a war.War will completely go against us.cmon do u guys really think war can solve the problem.War is not the answer,Sure diplomatic stance is not helping us all but perhaps with increasing pressure,they might act afterall...


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## chicha (Dec 30, 2008)

this might be the next cold war, china is a big nation with very powerful army and these ppl are not not just ready to die they are ready to kill.
India should play safe here, we should be really careful with the chinise, they hacked into our companies and stole billions of dollors worth projects(read it in times of india).

so its just not the ppl from pakistan that we need to be safe from its a different kind of terrorism but still very bad for us. INDIA can not afford any kind of war right now, we are in no shape to recover from the aftermath of war on pakistan though we will win we will not get any price money from any country.
and if there is a nuke war india is history. Japan came out of it ONLY because those ppl are the hardest working ppl, and if there is a nuke on india we will never recover.

as far the US controlling our weapons is pure BS.

the best thing to do right now is to get strong from within, we have to solve the domastic problems before trying to fight a war on some other country. Every god damn state in india has some problem or the other and no one is bothered about it, if we are not strong within we do not stand a chance with any one outside.


i do want war a huge one but its not the right decision.



The_Devil_Himself said:


> ,the world of "geopolitics"
> 
> India pwn Pakistan
> China pwn both India and Pakistan
> ...




very nice.... 

but lets imagine this..
india+russia+USA+germany+israel+china i want to see this happen if we have a good support from all these countries we are safe


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## abhijangda (Dec 30, 2008)

chicha said:


> this might be the next cold war, china is a big nation with very powerful army and these ppl are not not just ready to die they are ready to kill.
> India should play safe here, we should be really careful with the chinise, they hacked into our companies and stole billions of dollors worth projects(read it in times of india).
> 
> so its just not the ppl from pakistan that we need to be safe from its a different kind of terrorism but still very bad for us. INDIA can not afford any kind of war right now, we are in no shape to recover from the aftermath of war on pakistan though we will win we will not get any price money from any country.
> ...


u r right dude there must be war but not now. First of all we have solve all internal problems make good relations with other countries then there should be war. u r absolutely right.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 30, 2008)

chicha said:


> but lets imagine this..
> india+russia+USA+germany+israel+china i want to see this happen if we have a good support from all these countries we are safe


india+russia+USA+germany+israel+china+Pakistan,i want to see this happen if we have a good support from all these countries we are safe


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## chicha (Dec 30, 2008)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> india+russia+USA+germany+israel+china+Pakistan,i want to see this happen if we have a good support from all these countries we are safe



we dont want to be that safe, its just no fun


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## Jayanth.M.P (Dec 31, 2008)

Its just pathetic to see us Indians in this state isnt it.India is a weak country....we cant even retaliate if someone attacks our country.

* *India does not have a strong military force* -- dont talk about numbers, all we have are outdated stuff and everybody knows that. Why doesnt India take China as a example....they are not attacking anyone at the same time they are investing enough to make sure that nobody thinks about attacking them either....Peace and NonViolence are nice to hear when we have the strength to obliterate the enemy and still choose not to. Say if pakistani people had executed the same attack on Chinese soil instead of India and China had demanded a hand over of terrorists....would pakistan have had the guts to say no ?.......they are saying stuff to India because they know we are not strong enough. 

* *India does not have a strong political system* -- Nobody is asking you to be honest and always right. We all know that our leaders are there only to make money and we are not asking you to stop that. But atleast dont cheat the country ? 

* *India doesnt have a common uniting factor* -- China is gaining all its might because of its "FOR CHINA" attitude. Pakistan has 1 goal and that is to fight against India (atleast there they have a common motivational goal). What do we have ?

* *India does not have a strong religious policy* -- Pakistan is a declared Islamic State and recieves support form other Islamic nations in the world......We dont have that kind of support because we are the only Hindu mega population in the world -- understanding this we should do more to keep the internal religious forces under strict national control -- but again we try to keep everyone happy and end up losing strength in the process.

Until India changes its internal political attitude we will never become a superpower.

Some clarifications for posts above :

*India was not a part of pakistan. Pakistan is a piece given out by India.

*US and China both have EMPs which can disable nuclear arsenals of India and Pakistan if a nuclear threat of global proportions arise.

*Nobody is innocent. Stop calling civilians of pakistan innocent. They asked for a country and got it -- why the hell cant they focus on developing it ,instead of fighting with India. If their government has a role in the terrorist activities.....no pakistani is innocent because it is their representatives.


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## kanishka (Dec 31, 2008)

Jayanth.M.P said:


> * *India does not have a strong military force* -- dont talk about numbers, all we have are outdated stuff and everybody knows that. Why doesnt India take China as a example....they are not attacking anyone at the same time they are investing enough to make sure that nobody thinks about attacking them either....Peace and NonViolence are nice to hear when we have the strength to obliterate the enemy and still choose not to. Say if pakistani people had executed the same attack on Chinese soil instead of India and China had demanded a hand over of terrorists....would pakistan have had the guts to say no ?.......they are saying stuff to India because they know we are not strong enough.



Well said!


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 31, 2008)

Jayanth.M.P said:


> Its just pathetic to see us Indians in this state isnt it.India is a weak country....we cant even retaliate if someone attacks our country.


Incorrect statement,Pakistan din't attack India.Look at this from other point:what if some idiot trigger-happy mofo like yourself decided to hop over to pakistan and kill a few of unsuspecting innocent pakistanis,can it be termed attack on pakistan by India?Though not downplaying the role of pakistani intelligence and armed forced but facts must be stated.



> * *India does not have a strong military force* -- dont talk about numbers, all we have are outdated stuff and everybody knows that. Why doesnt India take China as a example....they are not attacking anyone at the same time they are investing enough to make sure that nobody thinks about attacking them either....Peace and NonViolence are nice to hear when we have the strength to obliterate the enemy and still choose not to. Say if pakistani people had executed the same attack on Chinese soil instead of India and China had demanded a hand over of terrorists....would pakistan have had the guts to say no ?.......they are saying stuff to India because they know we are not strong enough.


oh god,I can't even begin to reply to this.*sigh*
Indian Air Force(most deadly and fastest of all 3 armed forces) is amongst the best in the world,even better than US some say.our* Sukhoi Su-30 *is better than the US gen.V F-16 and F-18,and russia and India are still under-production for gen.V planes.Our ground forces are one of the best trained and even Israel(famous for its extremely efficient intel. agency MOSSAD) uses our facilities to train their soldiers.And as I said above we have the one of the best missile defence system.

ah,and don't forget our nuclear arsenal ffs!




> * *India does not have a strong political system* -- Nobody is asking you to be honest and always right. We all know that our leaders are there only to make money and we are not asking you to stop that. But atleast dont cheat the country ?


time for same 'ol bashing:

why don't you join politics and do something about the corruption?Hell,do you even vote?check out the credentials of the candidates?



> * *India doesnt have a common uniting factor* -- China is gaining all its might because of its "FOR CHINA" attitude. Pakistan has 1 goal and that is to fight against India (atleast there they have a common motivational goal). What do we have ?


Aren't we the next superpowers?,aren't we the future leaders?

or do you want us to promote fallacies like religion and caste to 'unite' people?

Hatred only begets hatred.



> * *India does not have a strong religious policy* -- Pakistan is a declared Islamic State and recieves support form other Islamic nations in the world......We dont have that kind of support because we are the only Hindu mega population in the world -- understanding this we should do more to keep the internal religious forces under strict national control -- but again we try to keep everyone happy and end up losing strength in the process.



What you see as our drawback is wha I see as our biggest achievement,This is democracy in all its glory,despite with all its -ve points.Yes,we strive to keep everyone happy,thats whats democracy is all about.I don't hate people based on their religion or ethinicity and so shouldn't you.



> Until India changes its internal political attitude we will never become a superpower.


oh you are so wrong,just wait and watch!




> *India was not a part of pakistan. Pakistan is a piece given out by India.


lets us just say both countries were one nation earlier and some stupid enough people with nothing to gain whatsoever fuked up.



> *US and China both have EMPs which can disable nuclear arsenals of India and Pakistan if a nuclear threat of global proportions arise.



ooo! too many sci-fi games and movies makes john a smart stupid boy.

any links to confirm your exaggerated claims?I don't even think EMP has gone out of command and conquer game to any real life practical application.



> *Nobody is innocent. Stop calling civilians of pakistan innocent. They asked for a country and got it -- why the hell cant they focus on developing it ,instead of fighting with India. If their government has a role in the terrorist activities.....*no pakistani is innocent because it is their representatives.*


so you are too a corrupt,dishonest mofo dog because so are most of your representatives?

heck even if the pakistani govt. openly claims to sponsor the mumbai attacks,would that make all the people of pakistan guilty?


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## Plasma_Snake (Dec 31, 2008)

chicha said:


> but lets imagine this..
> india+russia+USA+germany+israel+china i want to see this happen if we have a good support from all these countries we are safe


Above equation is highly imbalanced and will never ever work, unless North Korea and Iran come out waving their Nukes. Russia, USA,China they all ain't gonna work together, so will Germany and Israel.
India and Russia joint venture got a kick in the jewels with India going for US's Nuclear deal. The only blocks I see forming are the same cold war era one but this time China replaces Russia and India replace US, hopefully.


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## Faun (Dec 31, 2008)

lol...we have best trained men but I wonder if we need them in the coming world war. As everything will settle down with some nukes and no macho will be alive.


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## chicha (Jan 1, 2009)

if there will be a war between india and pakistan, i have a feeling that it will soon become a religious war, with all the islamic countries supporting pakistan.
i hope this does not happen. its just what i think is possible.


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## crazypal24x7 (Jan 1, 2009)

well I guess  war is not the answer atleast in dis case  bcoz pakistan is already  facing all major problems like economic crisis, religion probs....etc, government is in downfall . In case we strikes pakistan we will have to make sure each & every terrorist is dead(which is next to impossible bcoz economically v r not that strong to continue war for yrs  as de US has been doing + our own internal security, all de plans are still on papers  )  otherwise we gonna face de same prob Iraq is facing ,more revolt from terrorists + we will loose the pressure v have build on pakistan government , once it falls & terrorist will hav de control.

So in case, if   diplomatically  v fail to pressurerize pakistan government ,frst of all v need to beef up are internal security by that I mean more security personnels + technology which is a must , so atleast v can safeguard our own people.


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## nix (Jan 1, 2009)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> Indian Air Force(most deadly and fastest of all 3 armed forces) is amongst the best in the world,even better than US some say.our* Sukhoi Su-30 *is better than the US gen.V F-16 and F-18,and russia and India are still under-production for gen.V planes.Our ground forces are one of the best trained and even Israel(famous for its extremely efficient intel. agency MOSSAD) uses our facilities to train their soldiers.And as I said above we have the one of the best missile defence system.



i wonder how our air force is better than the US, considering the fact that their military spending dwarfs ours. what is the basis for your comments?. 
and MOSSAD has agents, not "soldiers" . its funny, MOSSAD, being the "extremely efficient" agency doesnt have its own "facilities". so they come to india and use our stuff. wow. who told you all this?


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 1, 2009)

^^In one of the exhibition where the sukhoi su-30 and the latest US plane f-16 were participating,it was found out that the su-30 was way faster than f-16 in aiming and firing at the target when both were fed the data at the same time on their radar.You can read about gen. V planes being developed by Russia and India in collaboration which would be far better than any of the gen. V US planes on wikipedia.
Dumbed down version for you:Our gen IV aircrafts (the sukhoi su-30) are better at atleast neck-to neck with the latest gen V us planes(the f-16 and f-18),while the gen.V indian aircrafts which are expected ton be fully incorporated in our air force by 2015 will rape the US counterparts. 

Superiority is rather a subjective affair which doesn't exactly directly proportionate to the money you spend.

and please read my post again ffs! I said MOSSAD is an intelligence agency(much like the fbi and our RAW), and not exactly some armed force which employs soldiers. 

Usually I would ignore such ignorant post but the dripping snubness from your rather dumb post compelled me to reply.


Oh and please don't bombard me with useless links of obscure websites claiming whatever they damn well please,they are as reliable as the mofo living down next street.


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## iNFiNiTE (Jan 1, 2009)

^^ If my memory serves right, F-16 and F/A-18 are what you call 4th Generation aircrafts while Su-30 with its modern design can be safely termed as a 4.5 Generation Aircraft. US already has 5th Generation aircracfts like F-22 Raptor and JSF(F-35) While the 5th Generation aircrafts to be developed jointly by India and Russia is still in design phase AFAIK. 

But I do agree that Su-30 is far ahead of the planes and can kick some serious aircraft ass .

As for Mossad using Indian facilities, I believe the event was Israel sending some of its soldiers for training in CounterTerrorism and Jungle Warfare School, somewhere in NE India.( I forgot the place  )


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## nix (Jan 1, 2009)

well, our jet planes may well be a few km/hr faster than the american ones. but that is not going to make much of a difference. i dont know if we have gen 5.5 or 5.7 jets, it doesnt matter. what matters is the strength of the military as a whole and not air force. there may be few exceptions, but as a whole, our military is ill equipped. our soldiers are'nt paid well and dont have proper guns and gear. 

the tone of your previous post seemed to suggest that the israeli's came to india coz they didnt have training facilities there, which is absurd. it must have been a joint military excercise or something meant to boost friendly ties b/w the two countries.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 1, 2009)

su-30 still owns f-22,and f-35 is just a beta plane,which just really doesn't exist and the prototypes performs far lower than even f-22 but are in process of refining.You see,US prefers to show their muscles while the Russians-Indians prefers to keep their beauties covered unless needed.

su-47 is the successor of s-30 and I guess no need discussing its capabilities.

f-22 was incoperated into USAF in 2005 while su-30 is there back from 1995,a single F-22 costs about 137million$ while the su-30 MKI costs about 53million$,less than half the cost.

Lets just say The Russians know their sh!t well when it comes to military aviation,despite the fact it is decades behind US in terms of time taken to develop owing to the loss of USSR in cold war.


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## lalitnagda (Jan 1, 2009)

aare bhai-log

already marr-re huye ko kya mar-ne ka

terrorism will gobble them up but not India. cuz we fight it and they nourish it.


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## nix (Jan 1, 2009)

^^ the US is no.1 for a reason, they the most influential country in the world. all for a reason. they cannot just bluff about the superiority of their military. 

about the US flexing its muscles, its only natural. what good is a superpower if cant show its power?. there is nothing wrong in showing off if you have the stuff but fact is we aint got much to show and so we dont.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 1, 2009)

much better now.Everyone is entitled to have an opinion,no matter how ridiculous it is.

Just two more points:

1.Air-Force is the most determining factor in the outcome of a war,especially in the age of nuke weapons.Ponder over this fact.

2.Whats a country which relies completely on some other country to train its soldiers,of course I meant they 'used' our system to see how effective it is,and it sure is very rugged,and I still say Indian soldiers are one of the best trained soldiers.


and TBH,spending too much on building up armed forces is futile in this world where every other mofo has nukes on their fingertips,just make sure we have enough aircrafts and nuke enabled subs to ensure a second-strike atleast.


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## pr.itdude (Jan 2, 2009)

hey interesting facts........!!
i got to know much abt our air force.......!! hmm....gud..!!
but i also believe that in terms of power...!! america is super-power (millitary also ofcourse, )and have the guts of doing what they want.......!!


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## saurabh_93 (Jan 3, 2009)

I don't think war is going to help,india cann't use nuclear weapons first and pakistan will don't hesitate to use nuclear weapons.but pressure by USA and Un can help.If pakistan don't have nukes then war as the best choice.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 4, 2009)

^^UN died in 2005.


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## Faun (Jan 4, 2009)

^^yeah lol...the biatch couldn't stand Yankees


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## dreamcatcher (Jan 4, 2009)

Well, US is the self proclaimed owner of this world and is the largest base for weapons on this planet.Even pakistani owe half their military cartridges to the US. In fact World Bank is providing Pakistan with a loan of 900 million dollars and China is providing them a bailout of 500 million dollars.Now if countries keep supplying Pakistan with free money, I dunno what diplomatic pressure shall do. Half the money lent will be fed to the Pakistan army, which in turn would be spent to take in more fidaayein.

Now if India declares war on pakistan, Pakistan will retaliate and which may turn out to be a pathetic piece of nuclear drama resulting in the loss of lives of millions.Also, if China decides to shove its ass on the scene US will back India to throw China off its chair and it may turn out to be the biggest war the World has ever seen.World War III if we care to name it. India's decision not to attack pakistan is taken, taking into account the wider perspective. 

The US has a brilliant ground force and an equally competent navy whose expertise cannot be questioned. They have the biggest naval base in the world and one of the largest standing armies. They attacked Iraq and Afghanistan when they were in turmoil.Offered no retaliation and thereby surrendered to their power. Its not the case in India.


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## Faun (Jan 5, 2009)

lol...and that naval brilliancy is due to crippling pacts signed by Mr. Germany. 

A$$lols always have money for war, the money payed by people as tax for development and their betterment.

WW 3 will be the last war and probably if I live through it then I can has the zone to hunt artifacts and sometime burned by radiation...but anyway lol . A vodka a day keeps the radiation away.


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## Plasma_Snake (Jan 5, 2009)

Well after the nukes going off, u won't be getting a zone dude, more like a Fallout 3 like scenario. Fix ur V.A.T.S now


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## pr.itdude (Jan 5, 2009)

a WW3 results in something like muslims call _"kayamat ka din"_...
the situation then would be same as like "phoenix", english literature-- i studied in 12th class!!!!


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 5, 2009)

If India attacks Pakistan,China is sure a hell using 'strategic military' operations in north-east India on the name of 'liberating people'.China is not stupid to support pakistan.India is a major threat to China not only in economics but also geopolitically.

China is also pushing in warships in The Indian Ocean on the name of 'stopping piracy'(somalian pirates),this is such a deep threat to India.China is also being said to export some planes to Pakistan loosely based on US's f-16,and guess who's the target.

Pakistan was never really a threat to India,and never will be,but just a means to get other country's dirty sh!t done.Stupid dumb fecks as they are.

Good bless the Nukes though,seriously.Point two nukes at pakistan and 35 at china and peace shall prevail.

BTW,India need to build nuke capable submarines,and need to build them now.Uboats ftw!,.


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## dreamcatcher (Jan 5, 2009)

Look at this list.Pakistan is virtually glaring at India when it comes to nuclear strength. India has the 3rd largest armed force in the world succeeded firmly by the US and China. 

But i seriously think, 1 Indian jawan is worth 4 times a chinky(chinese). 

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_armed_forces


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## Ecstasy (Jan 5, 2009)

I don't get one thing now, why is China poking its nose in our business?? >.<


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## kanishka (Jan 9, 2009)

Clearly from the wikipedia link it is clear that if Russia becomes active and supports India in case of war with Pakistan & China than India has 90% chance of winning war..Did you see their nuclear warheads?Its like a population of small country..Undoubtedly Russia is most powerful country in Asia..I wonder in case Russia supports India would US ALSO support us or would they would die of their Ego to not to be in team of Russia...


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## biswadeepmishra (Jan 13, 2009)

I cant understand why not ???

>They have bombed us and they ought to be taught a lesson.
>They have just risen from 'Dictatorship' and we are a democracy since last 55 years.
>Indian Military is far more powerful than Paki Army.
>Indian Military can make the whole of Pak into a Desert of Dead souls in 4 days. (which they cant think of in 4 years also)
>Pakistan has been defeated every time they take up a fight with India.
>The UN is with us.
>They have snached our land, we kept quite, but they will hurt mother India, how can we keep quite.

>Most importantly, they are sponsoring Terrorism and trying to wave the issue away !


I cant understand why not ?
Definitely,
India should declare state of war against pakistan

Indian army is more powerful than paki's. its well known. as it has happened everytime that whenever we have a war, India wins. Remember Kargill ???

i dont understand why it isnt happening.
UPA govt is forgetting that it is having muslim votes on its side, but 85% population, thats hindus wont vote them !

Indian, at this time should do what was done to Hamas !
What did USA do to Iraq. Killed then coz its 600 people dies. and still says India to stay silent even aftwer in past 50 years, more than 1,00,000 people have died due to terrorist attacks from Pak !

Ok, if Pak is witrh India and against terror, why are they not handing the suspects to India.
Why was their NSA dismissed for revealing that Kasab was a Paki. just coz he told the truth, should he be dismissed. All those bloody Pakis are same bloody terrorists !


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## Davidboon (Jan 13, 2009)

@biswadeep   I dont agree to ur post , well the root of terrorism lies in the pakistan's education system, where in schools the children are taught about hatredness towards our country .It is not the pakistanis who are trying to kill us. But it is their leaders who are provoking the common  people of their country to fight against us ,
 coming on to india what all we do is sit in our homes and hear newz of the war ..... when the soldiers are out there fighting for us and dying. If anybody here has the gut then why dont go and fight for yourself

so are we gonna win the war with hundreds of our soldier at stake ??


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## gaurav_indian (Jan 13, 2009)

Same old story.Lots of talk without any walk from indian politicians.You can see the confidence when pakistani ministers talk to the media and look at our Prime Minister he needs glucose D before every speech.And who is our president?Pratibha Patil?She should do any cookery show.Sirf naam ki president hai.
I miss Abdul Kalam.
Even though i hate musharraf but i always liked his rough and tough style.He was so active.We need active and young ministers like him.These buddhay politicians like manmohan and advani wont help india and indians.Give them pensions and ask them to stay at their home.


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## Ecstasy (Jan 14, 2009)

Speaking of Prathiba Patil.. where the fck is she??? She hasn't said or done anything when all of these issues had happen. I guess i missed it or she really hasn't done anything at all. Look at  other Presidents of different nations, they are all very aggressive about everything. God knows who hired her... 

Seriously lame!!


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## gaurav_indian (Jan 14, 2009)

Ecstasy said:


> Speaking of Prathiba Patil.. where the fck is she??? She hasn't said or done anything when all of these issues had happen. I guess i missed it or *she really hasn't done anything at all.* Look at  other Presidents of different nations, they are all very aggressive about everything. God knows who hired her...
> 
> Seriously lame!!



She hasnt done anything so there is no point of you missing it.I hate to say it but even Sheila Dikshit is way better than Pratibha Patil.


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## anispace (Jan 14, 2009)

she did something actually - got herself a nice salary raise. Apart from that, nothing.


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## gaurav_indian (Jan 14, 2009)

Our Prime Minister at its best.


*Manmohan sends new year card to Zardari*




> Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images] has sent a new year greeting card featuring a dove to Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari [Images].
> 
> "With all good wishes for the new year," the card, which the Pakistan president's office received a few days ago, said.
> 
> ...




*www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/13mumterror-manmohan-zardari-new-year-greeting-card.htm


This singh is not a king.


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## nix (Jan 15, 2009)

yes, we need a dynamic leader. someone who doesnt think 5 seconds before uttering a word. not someone like manmohan who keeps flashing his fruity smile even when with foes. we need someone cold.. like putin. 
we need leaders who dress and talk well. they should have international appeal.


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## Jayanth.M.P (Jan 15, 2009)

someone who doesnt think 5 seconds before uttering a word  -- definition of a politician (that too these are memorized words taught to him by some IAS officer)


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## pr.itdude (Jan 15, 2009)

Pakistan home minister, Rehman Malik in his press conference said 124 people were arrested in the crackdown against the accused organisation "jamat-ul-dawa" .He also stated that these are non-state actors and Pakistan will help India to its extent against the terrrorism. But he urged that India need to give clear evidences against them for more strict actions.

Source : *timesofindia.indiatimes.com/124_held_after_Mumbai_attacks_Pak_minister/articleshow/3983079.cms

and all the news channels flashing breaking news.


 wtf.....?? this is mere a illusion created by pak gov so that they can say to the world and the UN that we r also against terrorism and also suffering from it. As India is creating pressure on pak through America , Britain  , other nations and UN getting support from them to nail the Pak. Nothing will gonna happen after that too....
But the noticable point here is that the mr. malik didnt answer the question asked regarding Ajmal Kasab. Why ? Because thats the only loop hole in there mumbai terror plan........


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## luv2b_atechjunkie (Nov 11, 2009)

the problem is not with the pakis........ its sum corrupt officials of both the countries. the common public of pak has nothin to do wid this... even they are facing attacks. they are as helpless as us. War will harm their public as well as our people. there shud b sum other way to get out of this problem


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## Aspire (Nov 12, 2009)

Don't you guys like Peace????


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## nix (Nov 12, 2009)

peace is good, but you should never come across as weak. If you show weakness, you will be a victim of aggression. That said, you should be at the top of your game and in a position to achieve results with war quickly and effectively.


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## gxsaurav (Nov 12, 2009)

No matter who or what it is, No war from India. War needs money & we better use Money to develop India then spend on war.


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## Aspire (Nov 12, 2009)

+10000000000000000000000


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## nix (Nov 13, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> No matter who or what it is, No war from India. War needs money & we better use Money to develop India then spend on war.


k
smoking the peace pipe has not helped us. neither do we develop the country. 'develop the country' is what china is doing. i'm not calling for offense, but preparedness and awareness. we need to spend more money on our military, especially on  indigenously build stuff.


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## max_demon (Nov 13, 2009)

we must send 300 best warriors (read sparta )

also COD:MW2 will be entertaing this time rather than war


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## Faun (Nov 13, 2009)

Give peace a chance, dissolve Pakistan.


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## p_dude (Nov 13, 2009)

kanjar said:


> Give peace a chance, dissolve Pakistan.


it wasn't created to dissolve in peace you know...


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## luv2b_atechjunkie (Nov 13, 2009)

War was the mistake Mr Adolf Hitler did. do u want us to be like that guy. and u know what his end was


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## ashishstillthere (Nov 13, 2009)

luv2b_atechjunkie said:


> War was the mistake Mr Adolf Hitler did. do u want us to be like that guy. and u know what his end was





what all hitler did was a diffrent thing...conditions were different...but now what to say about the attack planing at core points of india like ima and supply of weapons  and high quality fake currency in india by pakistan


what we should do???

its the time for war


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## pr.itdude (Nov 15, 2009)

Good Bump....

But i think, India doesn't wanted ever and now pak is also not in condition for any kinda of war..!!!


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## p_dude (Nov 15, 2009)

ashishstillthere said:


> what all hitler did was a diffrent thing...conditions were different...but now what to say about the attack planing at core points of india like ima and supply of weapons  and high quality fake currency in india by pakistan
> 
> 
> what we should do???
> ...


both sides are brain washed into thinking the other was the enemy

india has always been place where a lot of culture and races mingled together and no people is a threat to the other most of them are just innocent trying to cope with their lives with everyday problems
if we trace it all back it will go straight to the big brother(remember rand corporation trying to stir up some sh1t few months ago telling that there would be a possible attack from Pakistani terrorists?) its up to you to decide why they don't want stability in middle east and Asia...


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## broadway (Nov 16, 2009)

The stable future of the continent lies in the destruction of pakistan. The people of pakiland are lost. The have been made to feed on hatred against the hindus and anything non-muslim. I don't think the hostility from there side will end anytime soon, atleast not with the current paki generation or the one after it. The best solution for us it to break pakistan in several little countries. Our major foe is the pakistani elite - the one's who left left india in 1947 and are currently in paki defense. Kill the paki elite and build a fence around the border so that the over charged up islamic citizens of pakiland don't blow themselves up in indian cities.

Pakistan is crumbling all my itself for the moment. Watch and have fun. Attacking it now will slow that process and may also give some "khujli" to some paki-patriots living in india.


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## DarkDante (Nov 21, 2009)

broadway said:


> The stable future of the continent lies in the destruction of pakistan. The people of pakiland are lost. The have been made to feed on hatred against the hindus and anything non-muslim. I don't think the hostility from there side will end anytime soon, atleast not with the current paki generation or the one after it. The best solution for us it to break pakistan in several little countries. Our major foe is the pakistani elite - the one's who left left india in 1947 and are currently in paki defense. Kill the paki elite and build a fence around the border so that the over charged up islamic citizens of pakiland don't blow themselves up in indian cities.
> 
> Pakistan is crumbling all my itself for the moment. Watch and have fun. Attacking it now will slow that process and may also give some "khujli" to some paki-patriots living in india.


+10000000000000000


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## johnvaz87 (Dec 16, 2009)

Beijing hotel..??? in between Inida and pak!!


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## Ronnie11 (Dec 16, 2009)

johnvaz87 said:


> Beijing hotel..??? in between Inida and pak!!





LOL...LMAO...


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## Faun (Dec 16, 2009)

And spammer takes the prize.


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## n00buddy (Dec 18, 2009)

I would not like to see a nuclear war but would love to see pak destroyed. Because the whole world knows that pak supports terrorism and disturbs peace in India but they don't do anything and the Indian politicians to show they are "peace" lovers say noo to any action against pak even after 26/11. Terrorism will end only with pak, so it is a necessaity to end both .


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