# So WHAT is the cause of such gruesome rapes?



## Chetan1991 (Apr 21, 2013)

All I see on news channels is people demanding punishment and stricter laws, even when we know prevention is better than cure. What's done is done. No amount of punishment can undo that and no amount of laws can control it. 
What we should be focussing on is what prompts rapist to commit such acts? How do their mindset differ from others? How to nip the problem in the bud?

At first I thought rapist were just horny idiots who would go out of control and rape for sexual release, but what's up with raping 5 year old children? 
couldn't they just buy dolls or stuff like that from black market? And inserting bottles etc inside, why would anyone do that?
We seriously need to understand the rapist mind deeply. Isn't there any psychology or anthropology dept of big univ.s doing research on such topics?
Without that I think rapes are not going to stop.


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## AcceleratorX (May 7, 2013)

It is somewhat related to abuse those rapists faced at the hands of women (and their parents) in their younger days and a desire to dominate the females as a result of that. Enough said.


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## Desmond (May 7, 2013)

What is TDF's obsession with rapes?

Looks like this thread picked off when the other rape threads closed. I think this has been covered in detail in those threads.


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## theterminator (May 7, 2013)

^Its not TDF's obsession dude. It's so much of a serious debate today that people want to know what is happening in their locality. Now, I am horrified the minute my sister/mother steps out of the house on her own . It's like a bunch of retards are out there craving for their next target.
Till now, we haven't been able to find the problem & take appropriate steps. The government & some personalities seem to narrow it down to pornography & get away with the actual problem.


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## Desmond (May 7, 2013)

There is no single reason why men rape. Some of the reasons could be :

- No fear of the law.
- Misogyny.
- Having a illusion that women actually want to be raped.
- Desperation.
- Vengeance.
- Alpha male complex.

The objective may or may not be to harm the victim, but inadvertently ends up in harm. Porn is not the only reason, but it could be a catalyst. If you don't discipline a dog, it will urinate inside the house or on the carpet. Men need to be disciplined from as early an age as possible and taught to respect women. But even this is not enough since a person who has the mindset to rape would rape regardless of education or discipline or stimuli such as porn. It is a broad topic with no single reason.


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## theterminator (May 7, 2013)

The best thing on the part of govt is to implement strict law and order..Police comes into central role as victims are initially reluctant to lodge a conplaint as they fear humiliation from the police itself. Lots of things to do but what happens , Parliament adjourned!


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## Chetan1991 (May 9, 2013)

theterminator said:


> The best thing on the part of govt is to implement strict law and order..Police comes into central role as victims are initially reluctant to lodge a conplaint as they fear humiliation from the police itself. Lots of things to do but what happens , Parliament adjourned!


That's like a medicine for the problem.  But we all know medicines cure only for some time. Permanent solution is not control. Control and fear have never been the ultimate answer to any problem. Dictators use them and they all fall in the end.


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## Makx (May 10, 2013)

Not just rape, the criminal activity around Delhi is so high these days...
one day my male friend left office early and so took some taxi to reach home otherwise he daily went home via office cab, he was robbed, beaten and dropped from the running taxi. He was unconscious for 3 days.


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## theterminator (May 11, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> That's like a medicine for the problem.  But we all know medicines cure only for some time. Permanent solution is not control. Control and fear have never been the ultimate answer to any problem. Dictators use them and they all fall in the end.



Then what is permanent solution in your view?


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## Chetan1991 (May 13, 2013)

theterminator said:


> Then what is permanent solution in your view?



I don't know, that's why I brought it up here. 
I couldn't be just repressed sex drive. Why would anyone rape children? The mind-set of rapists is quite different from ours, that's why we can't understand their actions. The right thing would be to stop being emotionally volatile, hating them as monsters and try to understand why they do such acts. 
The people who ought to do this are psychology and anthropology departments of universities but since we are all too familiar with the state of our educational system and academia let us just see if we can accomplish something through discussion.


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## theterminator (May 13, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> I don't know, that's why I brought it up here.
> I couldn't be just repressed sex drive. Why would anyone rape children? The mind-set of rapists is quite different from ours, that's why we can't understand their actions. The right thing would be to stop being emotionally volatile, hating them as monsters and try to understand why they do such acts.
> The people who ought to do this are psychology and anthropology departments of universities but since we are all too familiar with the state of our educational system and academia let us just see if we can accomplish something through discussion.



IMO there is no "permanent" solution to anything. I was trying to know what you have in mind but since you're also not confident then I must state that through law & order we can cure this menace to some extent. By law & order, I don't mean implementing it like Saudi Arabia. Those psychological studies are essential to understand the nature of such perverts but I don't think it will take much time to draw out a reason for such acts. It's a combination of many things like a patriarchal society. No fear of crime is also a big reason.


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## Chetan1991 (May 14, 2013)

theterminator said:


> IMO there is no "permanent" solution to anything. I was trying to know what you have in mind but since you're also not confident then I must state that through law & order we can cure this menace to some extent. By law & order, I don't mean implementing it like Saudi Arabia. Those psychological studies are essential to understand the nature of such perverts but I don't think it will take much time to draw out a reason for such acts. It's a combination of many things like a patriarchal society. No fear of crime is also a big reason.



I guess nothing is permanent, world can't be stagnant. It's not patriarchy but excessive chauvinism that's bad. BTW Blind equalism and radical feminism (have destroyed American society) are just as bad as excessive oppression (the Middle east way).


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## mediator (May 16, 2013)

@Desmond David raised some few good points. But I'm surprised why no one raised the biggest contributing factor which disables the judgement of a person, his ability to control his desires, a factor which makes one aggressive, sexually as well. I surprised why no one talked about alcohol. Moreover, this trend has not only been observed on this forum but in general as well, as it would shake people out of their comfort zone, their status and the perfect world they project on sites like facebook with pics of alcohol etc. Is it because people cannot discuss on their habits?

One can easily research and find out how majority of crime cases including rapes have been linked and committed under the effect of alcohol. The 5 rapists in the recent 'Nirbhaya' case were also heavily drunk and could not even hear or empathize with the cries of a girl. While people like Asharam Bapu were trying to reason that "she should have begged them and called them bhaya".

Please answer yourself if you can trust a drunk person on the wheels, your sister with a drunk guy etc?

*www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/crime.pdf

People are asking for permanent solution, but it is there right infront of their eyes. But if one discusses that, he is tagged as 'religious' by default, without even understanding the huge different between philosophy and religion.

Thus  the wise living entity's pure consciousness becomes covered by his  eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is never satisfied and which  burns like fire. The senses, the mind and the intelligence are the  sitting places of this lust. Through them lust covers the real knowledge  of the living entity and bewilders him.Therefore, O Arjuna, best of the  Bhāratas, in the very beginning curb this great symbol of sin [lust] by  regulating the senses, and slay this destroyer of knowledge and  self-realization. (BG 3.39-41)

Law can enforce strict rules, but can it stop a person under the effect of alcohol?


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## Desmond (May 16, 2013)

Damn, how did I forget about alcohol. Alcohol is the root of many problems, including but not limited to rapes.


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## theterminator (May 16, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> I guess nothing is permanent, world can't be stagnant. It's not patriarchy but excessive chauvinism that's bad. BTW Blind equalism and radical feminism (have destroyed American society) are just as bad as excessive oppression (the Middle east way).



Patriarchy has been for centuries, you cannot deny it. Patriarchy is a result of excessive chauvinism of the male & women, especially in rural areas, have adopted themselves to this tradition. Many mother-in-laws don't want their daughter-in-laws to work.


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## Chetan1991 (May 17, 2013)

@mediator good point. Alcohol can be attributed as a factor behind a lot of crimes especially in a country like ours where the majority of drinkers drink it to get stinking drunk instead of just enjoying some. But you can't blame a substance. It is the drinkers responsible for gulping down more than what they can handle.


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## mediator (May 17, 2013)

@Chetan - There are times when your friends 'impose' drinking upon you in the name of party and fun, count some emotional blackmail, and later without even realizing you might start shouting and drive rashly. An innocent girl, water-totaller might be given alcohol in her cold drink and later exploited. So more than alcohol, I would also blame this herd mentality about drinking as a fashion statement and a 'cool factor', a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia, that in turn promotes drinking and alcohol and those who don't drink are tagged as 'bacha/kid' and condescended in various forms. This new distorted definition of 'grown up' is also to be blamed. I really do not understand why it is an enjoyment as a guitarist cannot entrance himself with his sub-conscious focus in guitar, a gymmer cannot lift and enjoy his work out, a painter cannot paint and debater cannot debate intellectually and enjoy under the effect of alcohol.

Moreover, alcohol damages the youthful looks, gives bad skin texture, increases weight,  causes hair loss, congenital diseases for pregnant women, liver cancer,  memory loss, impairs the immunity system, brain damage, kidney damage,  coma and even death.

This definition of enjoyment regarding alcohol itself is gross!

A nice read : *alcoholisminfo.blogspot.in/2013/01/alcohol-crimes-diseases-causes-and.html


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## whitestar_999 (May 17, 2013)

your many points are correct about alcohol but the problem is not that.we know many things which we should not do & yet still do it & more someone else force us to not do something more the people will try to find a way around.you can't stop people from drinking alcohol simply by banning it.USA tried & failed & i seriously doubt any other democracy in world can succeed where USA failed to implement a law in their own country.the only way to discourage people from drinking alcohol is through a series of physical/technological/psychological/economical/judicial measures which i am afraid to say are simply beyond the comprehension of most people let alone politicians.


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## mediator (May 17, 2013)

You should not consider USA as a benchmark, for they set the benchmark and break it themselves. They are against biochemicals warfare and WMDs, yet they used it against Veitnam. They are against other countries using nuclear weapons, and they have forgotten their own history with Japan. Once you know the ethical irrelevance being practiced in these countries for manufacturing of allopathic medicines and beauty products, you'd understand the real definition of their standard. Whereas, India is country where the medical drugs banned in other countries are used, energy drinks which are being banned by other countries are still used, BT products banned in many countries is still used. IMO, India is a guinea pig used by manufacturing industries and 'modern Indians' a herd of blind sheep which drools on ever changing 'modern research' (I read a british research which said Computer Engg are great at having sex, another one now found that 'haldi' has medicinal properties and people developed affinity after the modern approval) and treats scientists as gods, without using their own common sense and analyzing the matters in depth. It is interesting to note that this category finds processed food like Mc Burger and Pizza, processed meat as 'hygienic'.

There are many dry states/countries which have banned alcohol and experiencing a low crime rate. AFAIK, Gujarat, and mid-east countries like Saudi are dry states with one of the lowest crime rates. Yes, one can argue that implementation of law is also strict in these regions.


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## rhitwick (May 17, 2013)

Well, I kind of did an extensive (as much as I could on internet) study on the reasons of "rape". I had posted a thread here too on the same topic but with a different agenda. Rather finding the reason I asked for the apt punishment for such criminals.
The thread can be found here *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-clu...uld-ideal-punishment-rapists.html#post1810903

The whole thread might not be relevant to this topic discussed here but the first post covering various reasons, myths, symptoms of rapists etc are posted there.



mediator said:


> There are many dry states/countries which have banned alcohol and experiencing a low crime rate. AFAIK, Gujarat, and mid-east countries like Saudi are dry states with one of the lowest crime rates. Yes, one can argue that implementation of law is also strict in these regions.


I would disagree here with you.

I've friends from Gujrat who complain about rising crime rates. Though they blames all those 'bihari' migrants for this. 

And, about Saudi, I would again disagree. It has high execution rates among the top orders (China, Iran, North Korea etc). Did the capital punishment or the kind of punishments that make news everyday brought down the crime rate to zero? No. It did not. 
People will go the wrong way, they would. 

The solution is not to bring down the crime rate or "rape rate". Even if only one girl is 'raped' that is unacceptable. Lower rates does not justify it. You can't just sit back relaxing that the crime rate is low now. Its not a solution. 

Either it has to be zero or its a failed attempt. From broad prospect you can argue that the crime rate has been brought down to 5% from 50% but can you tell that the people who fall in your that 5% stat are irrelevant, their lives, dignity are irrelevant and the unjust is justified, or you would want to console them that their 'sacrifice' would make the future better?

I disagree. 4-5 months back I was listening to a Muslim clergy talking in TV. He's supposed to be a very good speaker, everyone listens to him and etc. He told in Urdu first and then in Hindi.
Eventually he started praising how Arab countries have implemented law so well and how India would do better if even it follows the same judgement system. He even went ahead and asked the audience to raise hands who support for such punishment and rules. 
I was amazed and disgusted by the suggestion. Violence can't be solution to anything. 

I guess they thrive on the concept of this meme,
*global3.memecdn.com/violence_o_262684.jpg


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## Desmond (May 17, 2013)

It is not necessary to implement violent punishment on such criminals, but then if you don't, you are not passing a message to other potential offenders. We don't need violence, but discipline. Harsh discipline. People will continue to commit such crimes until dissuaded from doing so.

In case of the 'Nirbhaya' incident, the girl died. That means its manslaughter and the offenders need to be charged as such.


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## NoasArcAngel (May 17, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> There is no single reason why men rape. Some of the reasons could be :
> 
> - No fear of the law.
> - Misogyny.
> ...



desmond has answered the query in simple yet concise form .


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## mediator (May 17, 2013)

@Rhitwick : Thats what I questioned earlier => "Law can enforce strict rules, but can it stop a person under the effect of alcohol?"

In your subjective opinion, its either black or white, 0 percent or crime exists. But I appreciate if the state/country witnesses reduction in crime rates. We can disagree there. But high or low rate of execution is no measure in measuring the crime rate. Many crimes in India are not even registered, let alone being resolved. Politicians, Police officers, IPS etc are all involved in crimes. But do they get executed? Does the low crime registered infer low crime committed? Would the no. of executions measure the crime rate in such cases? What you see as high rate of execution, I see it as proper/strict implementation of law because of which no. of crime committed synchronizes with no. of crime cases resolved. 

So the implementation and the law shall remain a subject of discussion and can only be measured by peace or lawlessness that citizens are witnessing. But in the end, everybody will have to practice self-control over their desires. Giving in to their desires is what I I call as slavery to the senses due to attachment to sense objects. Only through a detached self-control can one respect the nature and its manifestations be it a woman, man, animal, atmosphere etc.


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## whitestar_999 (May 17, 2013)

@mediator,looks like you were unable to understand my post.do a google search on prohibition era & Al Capone because if you don't know about this already then it is meaningless for me to continue this discussion with you.India is a vast country & Gujarat is not safe just because it has alcohol prohibition because by that logic Mizoram, Manipur & Nagaland should be very safe too because they too have this alcohol prohibition law but they are not.Gujarat is an exception being run by a chief minister who understands crime negatively impacts business & who enjoy so much support that he has no fear of his party central command.also this is not a pseudo religious/philosophical forum so give arguments based on solid facts/relevance not ethics/self control & such.btw about countries like UAE i hope you know that they practice & implement wahabi form of Islam & shariya & yes it does succeed in keeping crime rate low but at a great cost of personal freedom so your argument about this is completely invalid.


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## mediator (May 18, 2013)

^When I say dry state, it doesn't mean that the state should also have all forms of extremism. It is a simple case of discussion when in physics we discuss on gravity, acceleration and velocity and newtons three laws of motion 'without' observing friction due to air or ground as a factor. We all know what form of crime is prevalent in Mizoram, Manipur and Nagaland and that discussion is a total tangent to the crime in civilian zone that we are discussing. In that discussion, we cannot discuss on 'self-control' for mosquitoes will attack you even in your most peaceful state. Moreover, it also not relevant here whether sharia succeeds or not in keeping the crime rate low, but what was 'done' to keep the crime the crime rate low. We do not need to practice the same thing, but we can atleast learn from it and amend the way to a suitable form! We can indeed learn from Gujarat and Saudi. We do not need to blindly follow though.


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## mikael_schiffer (Jul 14, 2013)

To answer OP's question as to what causes such gruesome rapes

Its the conservative Indian society. Period!

A pervert horny guy with raging harmones may not commit rape. But a quiet shy introvert and sexually suppressed guy is more prone to rape.

The only reason "capital punishment for rapist" is debated is because the tendency to rape comes from a person's upbringing, his society and his psychological status.

Sweden has the highest rape case in the World. 
Blog: Which Country has the Highest Rape Rate in the World?
Shocking right? But dwelve deeper into the statistics and things start clearing up. 77% of the rapists were muslim immigrants. I am not saying the muslims are like that, im saying that when the closed societies clash with modern society, bad things happen.

Imagine a brahmin orthodox guy from Bihari village, never talked to a non-family-member-gal ever till he is adult. Never touched a girl...never sat close to a gal in class...oh wait, he went to boys-only school, which is so common in rural Bihar...

NOW, he comes to New Delhi for studies/job. OOOHH LA LA....Sexy chics...EYE POPPING..Revelaing cothes..and so friendly and interactive gals  !!!
        His brain goes psycho , his morality nerve snaps, and he starts fantasizing those women. And being so inexperienced in interaction with the opposite sex, his insecurity and phobia turns him into a rapist. He doesn't give a **** if he is hanged tommorow, he just wanna get laid! And an innocent promising lad turns into a rapist  . IMO Blame goes to his upbringing,society etc etc,,

As for those 60 year old men who rape 10 yr old kids, well thats mental defect, not horniness. They deserve the Mental Asylum, not the gallows..


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## Chetan1991 (Jul 17, 2013)

mikael_schiffer said:


> To answer OP's question as to what causes such gruesome rapes
> 
> Its the conservative Indian society. Period!
> 
> ...


Unique insight. Clash of old and new is certain to result in some agitation.


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## axes2t2 (Jul 18, 2013)

mikael_schiffer said:


> A pervert horny guy with raging harmones may not commit rape. But a *quiet shy introvert and* sexually suppressed guy is more prone to rape.



Fixed .


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## Faun (Jul 18, 2013)

axes2t2 said:


> Fixed .



hehe....


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## mikael_schiffer (Jul 19, 2013)

DO you guys feel PORN affects the occurrence of rape?


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## Anorion (Jul 19, 2013)

mikael_schiffer said:


> DO you guys feel PORN affects the occurrence of rape?



No, but it gives wrong and fake ideas about women, just like magazines and movies. Even soap has gender sterotypes, why should dove be all white and curvy, and lifebuoy this brick like huuge purple thing



mikael_schiffer said:


> Sweden has the highest rape case in the World.
> Blog: Which Country has the Highest Rape Rate in the World?
> Shocking right? But dwelve deeper into the statistics and things start clearing up. 77% of the rapists were muslim immigrants. I am not saying the muslims are like that, im saying that when the closed societies clash with modern society, bad things happen.


Cant compare crime rates in two countriess so easily. 



> "So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record - one victim, one type of crime, one record."


BBC News - Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight


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## Chetan1991 (Jul 19, 2013)

Sweden is filled with radical feminists (the crazy type) who label even something as a stranger man talking to them as rape. Their rape statistics has no value since a large percentage are fake. *www.nytimes.com/2010/12/29/world/europe/29iht-letter29.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&


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## Chaitanya (Jul 19, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> Sweden is filled with radical feminists (the crazy type) who label even something as a stranger man talking to them as rape.



I will never visit sweden..



Anorion said:


> No, but it gives wrong and fake ideas about women, just like magazines and movies. Even soap has gender sterotypes, why should dove be all white and curvy, and lifebuoy this brick like huuge purple thing



 (Good point IMO)


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## theterminator (Jul 24, 2013)

Another report which attributes Internet PORN to real life criminal acts of rape,etc. 



> All the evidence tells us that the deluge of violent and perverted sexual images available with just a few clicks of a computer mouse is inflicting profound psychological damage on a generation  of children.
> 
> ChildLine receives huge numbers of calls from traumatised teenagers and the NSPCC has reported a flood of requests for help from girls being pressured by boyfriends to provide sexually explicit photographs of themselves and worse, aping what they have seen on the web.


DAILY MAIL COMMENT: A bold offensive in the war on internet porn | Mail Online


I remember a user with the handle *'chaitanya2106'* who made this claim here on TDF. 
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-club/171981-killing-piracy.html


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## Anorion (Jul 25, 2013)

co-relation does not imply causation


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## Desmond (Jul 25, 2013)

On a similar note : Woman assaults man and cries rape.



Edit : Apparently the woman is a moderator of the /r/AgainstMensRights subreddit. The subreddit is also known to encourage women to falsely accuse men of rape.

Edit : From the description of the above video :



> If it isn't already apparent to most people .If you want to stay out of trouble with a woman ,carry a camera and video tape everything.It'll save you some real prison rape.


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## theterminator (Jul 25, 2013)

Anorion said:


> co-relation does not imply causation



so these reports from leading newspapers doesn't seem to impress you? Doesn't it ring a bell when an awful lot of material is available at just the click of a mouse? Its having a psychological impact on the minds of people whether you admit it or not. Its also passively harming the partner when he/she is been told to perform acts willingly or unwillingly because his/her partner saw something 'interesting' on these very tapes.


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## Anorion (Jul 25, 2013)

^uh. yep. it does psychologically affect a lot. it gives the wrong idea about sex. production of some kinds of porn can be the abuse. there is a rise of self shot material, it's a huuge concern when it is by the underaged. some kinds of porn are victimless crimes. not denying any of that. however, to say porn causes rape is not the whole picture. movies, magazines and soaps are at least equally responsible.  for example, those films where navels are zoomed in on song sequences objectify women, reduce them to those body parts as much as hardcore porn films reduce sex to the genitals.



> But it's the scene with the dimwitted farmer that really hammers home how casually rape is doled out in the universe of Enthiran. That guy is on screen for two minutes, tops, and roughly a minute and a half of that time is him being adorably dumb and bashful. The other 30 seconds is him trying to molest the main character. There's literally no segue there -- the transformation from harmless comic relief to sexual criminal was apparently in one of those scenes the blind editor lopped off
> Read more: *www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-you-can-learn-about-india-from-their-action-movies/#ixzz2a1ZoxeRQ


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## whitestar_999 (Jul 25, 2013)

i had read that article a long time ago & it correctly portrays the so called "compulsory molestation/rape" in many south indian movies(indian laughter challenge 1st season even has a joke on it by raju shrivastav or sunil pal).no doubt such things(including pornography) inflicts psychological damage but so does fear which is superior so even if a person is encouraged to commit rape he won't because of fear(of law,magnitude of punishment,society,shame etc).it is this aspect of fear which needs to be focused upon to stop this increase in rapes.*there is no human in this world which can not be broken using fear & if there is one then that person is more than a human.*


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## theterminator (Jul 25, 2013)

Anorion said:


> ^uh. yep. it does psychologically affect a lot. it gives the wrong idea about sex. production of some kinds of porn can be the abuse. there is a rise of self shot material, it's a huuge concern when it is by the underaged. some kinds of porn are victimless crimes. not denying any of that. however, to say porn causes *rape *is not the whole picture. movies, magazines and soaps are at least equally responsible.  for example, those films where navels are zoomed in on song sequences objectify women, reduce them to those body parts as much as hardcore porn films reduce sex to the genitals.



ofcourse objectifying women is present in all forms of entertainment. but there is a distinction which makes a movie superhit even if some form of objectification or unpleasant behaviour is shown. There is a reason why Barney Stinson is not looked from a bad angle despite he thinks of girls as one night stands.  That distinction is whittled away in such 'so called' porn. Porn is certainly not the 'only' cause of such crimes, nobody is saying that. But nobody should deny the fact that it has , unfortunately, become one of "THE" causes of unimaginable sexual desire that acts as a driving force. Its not just rape we are talking here, why is there a sudden exponential increase in molestations, sexual harrassment cases? Is it because they were not reported before, really? Its not 'some' kind of porn, that word should be replaced by 'many'.


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## Anorion (Jul 25, 2013)

^it is actually because they were not reported before.  there were too many things that were not rape. forced penetration by foreign object was not considered rape, and not reported as such till a little while ago. Police cases, and newspapers. Sodomy, forced oral penetration, even against minors were all not rape. Sakshi vs Union of India was a PIL filed to redefine the narrow definition of rape under section 375 of the IPC. The organisation tried 8 years ago to bring about the very discussion and changes in laws that are going on now. 
this is a quote from the judgment, the courts refused to redefine rape at that point of time, because apparently it would cause chaos and confusion in the mind of the public !!


> The entire legal fraternity of India, lawyers or Judges, have the definition as contained in Section 375 IPC engrained in their mind and the cases are decided on the said basis. The first and foremost requirement in criminal law is that it should be absolutely certain and clear. An exercise to alter the definition of rape, as contained in Section 375 IPC, by a process of judicial interpretation, and that too when there is no ambiguity in the provisions of the enactment is bound to result in good deal of chaos and confusion, and will not be in the interest of society at large.


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## mitraark (Jul 27, 2013)

theterminator said:


> ofcourse objectifying women is present in all forms of entertainment. but there is a distinction which makes a movie superhit even if some form of objectification or unpleasant behaviour is shown. There is a reason why Barney Stinson is not looked from a bad angle despite he thinks of girls as one night stands.  That distinction is whittled away in such 'so called' porn. Porn is certainly not the 'only' cause of such crimes, nobody is saying that. But nobody should deny the fact that it has , unfortunately, become one of "THE" causes of unimaginable sexual desire that acts as a driving force. Its not just rape we are talking here, why is there a sudden exponential increase in molestations, sexual harrassment cases? Is it because they were not reported before, really? Its not 'some' kind of porn, that word should be replaced by 'many'.



Objectifying women has been the primary cause of such incidents in India, although directly blaming Bollywood/Porn would be unfair.

Porn should hardly be considered, everyone knows it's tha farthest thing from real life, one has to be very foolish if they try to follow such lines in real world -__-'

Bollywood, a certain part of it to be specific, is more responsible in this case, they instill in people's mind, the false notion, portraying blunt stalking and teasing as some sort of romantic gesture. I don't want to cause any ruffles, but in my opinion, Bhojpuri and South Indian movies really push the limits for such stories. The quintessential indian who leads a normal daily life,  resorts to such movies and fantasize about such stuff. People who have been bought up devoid of the moral education of differntiating betwwen the right and wrong, one day succumb to their desires, tries to imitate his fantasies, and that's where things go all wrong.

In retrospect, however, there have been incidents which I don't even feel like mentioning here in writing, which could never have been thought of from any kind of form of entertainment, inhuman, unspeakable acts. So one has to wonder what actually goes on in such people's mind.


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## theterminator (Jul 27, 2013)

mitraark said:


> Porn should *hardly* be considered, everyone knows it's tha farthest thing from real life, one has to be very foolish if they try to follow such lines in real world -__-'



I assume you are not aware of the 'kind' of porn we are talking here.


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## Harsh Pranami (Aug 19, 2013)

mitraark said:


> Bhojpuri and South Indian movies really push the limits for such stories.



110% true.


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## Desmond (Aug 20, 2013)

Why are we still discussing porn and depictions of sex in media? Even if it is completely removed, do you think that rapes will stop? The reason I believe is more psychological.

Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to stares and molestations.

India: the Story You Never Wanted to Hear - CNN iReport

Don't know how much of it is true, but it does paint a pretty bad picture of India.


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## Chetan1991 (Aug 20, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Why are we still discussing porn and depictions of sex in media? Even if it is completely removed, do you think that rapes will stop? The reason I believe is more psychological.
> 
> Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to stares and molestations.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately nothing an Indian couldn't guess.

Finding a middle ground is difficult. 
On one hand we have our sexually repressive culture where men will rush at anything or anyone thought of as sexually open like stray dogs, on the other hand is culture like US where feminism has succeeded in creating an anti-male country where men are emasculated and women's b!tches, society is doomed and most women are screwing with only top 5% of men.

Then there's the weird case of Japan which was famous for its warriors but is now filled with "herbivore" men who don't even try to get women despite most of them being slim and hot.

This sure is a weird world. So how would you define a middle ground and how could we achieve it?


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## Anorion (Aug 20, 2013)

Uh magazines/ serials / movies getting a de glam makeover with women having realistic body shapes and practical fashion wont help? 


Blame women also because of how they treat other women


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## Desmond (Aug 20, 2013)

The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset. 

Their outlook needs to change first.


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## theterminator (Aug 20, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Check this article about a student on a trip to India about how she is subjected to *stares *and molestations. Don't know how much of it is true, but it does paint a pretty bad picture of India.


I notice that everyday. When I see a girl , I usually look at other men  to see how would they react upon seeing her. They will stare at her constantly like they're going to eat her. There's a very thin line that divides a good stare & a bad stare . For a moment, I think this city/country/world is all doomed for females, etc.  but I remind myself that its all natural & the girl would also like to be attractive . 


Chetan1991 said:


> Then there's the weird case of Japan which was famous for its warriors *but is now filled with "herbivore" men* who don't even try to get women despite most of them being *slim and hot.*


Oh man! Is that sh!t real? I would like to visit Japan soon . I guess that explains a tiny part of the massive *JAV *content on the web (oops what did I just wrote  )


DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset.
> 
> Their outlook needs to change first.


You appear like Justice Markandey Katju here. I 100% agree . Media is more concerned what SRK took for breakfast , what Katrina wore while sleeping last night. And I am always greeted with laughter shows on *News Channels*.


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## Zangetsu (Aug 20, 2013)

Desmo has pointed out most of the causes
+ rapes happens bcoz the rapist are not satisfied with masturbation (want a practical experience)
+ want to take a chance of the situation (alone woman no body around..so lets rape..)
+ most of them are psychos...father raping daughter (damn )
+ obession/lust to a particular woman (he is stalking that women everyday..he is looking for a chance)
+ saw it in bollywood movies (she spoiled my image by slapping me in public..I'll teach her a lesson she will remember for a lifetime)


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## Chetan1991 (Aug 21, 2013)

@theterminator what's JAV?
BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a _gaijin_ (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.




DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> The way I see it, the majority of India is not ready for the kind of glam and bling that the media is portraying these days. They just don't have the mindset.
> 
> Their outlook needs to change first.



How can that be done?


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## Desmond (Aug 21, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> @theterminator what's JAV?



Japanese Adult Video



Chetan1991 said:


> BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a _gaijin_ (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.



True that. The Japs can be pretty bigoted at times. But not all of them are like that. A few people such as the bigots we have over here or the KKK in the US



Chetan1991 said:


> How can that be done?



Education and/or rigorous discipline.

Edit : I've been wondering, what if the Indian man's libido is to blame? Explains why we have such a huge population.


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## whitestar_999 (Aug 21, 2013)

Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.

P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.


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## Chetan1991 (Aug 21, 2013)

whitestar_999 said:


> Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.
> 
> P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.



+1.
I was mentioning Japanese for the benefit of theterminator who wants to go there for the girls. You got no shot unless you can speak Japanese (acc. to lots of foreigner guys there.)


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## sumit05 (Aug 21, 2013)




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## Faun (Aug 21, 2013)

Japanese are robots programmed with falling in love with their own kind. Ok ? Now back to the thread.


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## theterminator (Aug 21, 2013)

Chetan1991 said:


> BTW Japan is one of the world's most closed cultures. People are extremely polite and helpful but forget about mingling with them like a relative. You will always be treated as a _gaijin_ (outsider.) Unless you speak Japanese.
> How can that be done?





DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> True that. The Japs can be pretty bigoted at times. But not all of them are like that. A few people such as the bigots we have over here or the KKK in the US.





whitestar_999 said:


> Japanese people do not like mingling with outsiders(whether they speak japanese or not) is a fact but don't confuse it with impolite behaviour.they will not show you any disrespect in common every day behaviour but forget about being close with them beyond business relationship.as for JAV it has no relation whatsoever with people behaviour & is just like US adult entertainment industry(which is biggest in world).the reason for massive no. of JAV is that in Japan traditional morality/religion is almost absent(rare for Asia) so people can get away easily with working in adult movies not to mention japanese prefer their own(just like everything else) in their adult movies.
> 
> P.S.btw japanese law system is very harsh/biased for foreigners & you don't want to get caught on wrong side of law in Japan if you are a foreigner.





Chetan1991 said:


> +1.
> I was mentioning Japanese for the benefit of *theterminator who wants to go there for the girls*. You got no shot unless you can speak Japanese (acc. to lots of foreigner guys there.)


Well I can drop that idea & meet them up 'online' .

Chinese are very conservative as well.


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## Raaabo (Sep 5, 2013)

Porn? Libido? Alcohol? What utter rubbish.

Sorry, but it's true. Rape is a power play, and some men just revel in that power. It's usually after they've gotten away with other crimes, and the next step is murder. All of you here desire women, or men, and all women desire men or other women, that's based on sexuality and nothing more. You may look at someone gorgeous, or someone wearing revealing clothes in real life or tv, and get turned on even, but how does that lead to rape? 

Anyone on this forum claiming to "not watch porn" is lying, and we all know it. How many of you have ever been tempted to rape even after spending an entire day watching porn? Obviously no one will answer that, but I'm betting zero. 

Many of you drink as well I assume, (I don't for the record, but all my friends do), did you ever find yourself thinking about raping someone when high or drunk? Yes you may drink alcohol and find yourself thinking you are suddenly Gods gift to women, and flirting with them or acting macho, and making a fool of yourself, but if you think you might ever drag a girl / woman into a dark spot and rape when under the influence please seek psychiatric help immediately.

Rapists typically do not even see a woman as a woman, she's just a toy to be used and discarded, and no better than an animal. 

True, the patriarchal mindset in India does make it easier for most Indian men to see women as inferior, and that does contribute to the Indian problem to some extent. Yes culture shocks also may account for a tiny fraction of the cases, but it still has to be within the context of seeing women as inferior, or just good for one thing. 

Some have even suggested that the reason is arranged marriage. A boy goes about looking at pure physical qualities of various women, chooses one who he feels will make a good lay, gets married and then has his way with her as and when he pleases for the rest of his life. It's just another way of making women inferior, by giving them no say in who they marry and indeed sleep with. Now educated society usually has ways to enhance this experience and gives the girl also a say, but in villages they aren't so lucky.

It's not just the men, it's families in general. We still have millions who truly believe that men are better - thus the continued female infanticide cases. Girl children are abandoned in dumpsters, killed before being born - what message are we sending? Most Indian families, especially mothers, are as equally to blame, because to them the son is special, and the daughter is a burden. When your very upbringing tells you that you're superior, how can you not expect that some of these men will take their superiority to criminal extents.

We are also taught that power is everything. The rich display power, they can get the poor into trouble with their contacts. The police are brazen with their power, and can walk up to you and slap you if they don't like your face. The politician can do the same, but even with the police he controls, so he has ultimate power. Thus we are a society of power hungry people, who strive to better their lives through any means necessary, which usually involved crime and corruption. Once you bend a few morals, what are a few more? If you can give a bribe, why not accept one? Everyone else does it anyway. If you can jump a red light, why not run away after you hit someone? Anyway no one will listen to your story because you are richer and thus resented for having more power. There is no right and wrong in India, just power and opportunity. We bow to power easily, but wait for the opportunity for the tables to turn in our favour. If you see a rich chap in a car knock down a motorcyclist who was being an idiot by weaving through traffic, we automatically sympathise with the bike chap, because what do these rich car guys think they are?

We have become an overpopulated nation of power hungry people, always resenting everyone else, and with the knowledge that the "law" is really non existent for most everyday scenarios, and justice is purely what you perceive it to be, depending on how much power you hold.

International studies show that rapists are no better than murderers, because its a power game, and they like the high of having total power over someone. That manifests as stabbing someone with a knife, or with their penises, it's really no different - because the end result is an attempt to feel powerful by reducing a victim to a beggar, pleading for mercy. That's the turn on there, not the body. This is usually true for the regular rapist acting alone.

However, in the Indian context, this also happens in a society where everyone wants power and resents those with more of this power than them. We all know that all power in India is gained criminally - rich get richer by evading taxes, black money, bribing politicians to get favours, etc, police get power by NOT following the law, politicians get elected by using underhanded tactics, and corruption... So how can we not expect the ones with criminal intent to turn out as bad as they are? There is no fear of retribution - you will fight on the road knowing that you will not be caught. 5 of you together will always threaten bodily harm to a group of 2 and yet be easily intimidated by a group of 20, does it matter who's right and who's wrong? Thus the rise in gang rapes - the sense of power is heightened in a group. 

As I mentioned in a different thread, only fear can save us now. An ultimate power that reduces all these local goons and criminals into nothing. If all of us well meaning citizens of the country got together, came out on the streets with lathis and swords by the thousands, and beat up every roadside Romeo who pinched a girl's body or passed lewd comments, you can bet the instances would reduce and women would feel safer, but then who would govern this group of do gooders? If 10,000 members of your locality walked down the road catching criminals and forcing the police to register cases, you can bet things would get done, but who is going to rally the people? Politicians? No, because then you end up with an agenda that's corrupt to begin with.

The bottom line is, unless the law is enforced, nothing happens, but if the upholders of the law themselves are corrupt, then what? I see India either headed down the drain and the lives of common people getting worse by the year, and everyone just adjusting and saying such is life. Or else we will end up with Egypt and Syria like revolts, where police and politicians will be burnt at the stake as they deserve. It's time to sink or swim, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether we Indians will ever be able to stand up and revolt, or will we continue being the badly beaten, hard working horses that some people exploit for their gain. Only time will tell.


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## snap (Sep 5, 2013)

Raaabo said:


> The bottom line is, unless the law is enforced, nothing happens, but if the upholders of the law themselves are corrupt, then what? I see India either headed down the drain and the lives of common people getting worse by the year, and everyone just adjusting and saying such is life. Or else we will end up with Egypt and Syria like revolts, where police and politicians will be burnt at the stake as they deserve. It's time to sink or swim, and I'm looking forward to seeing whether we Indians will ever be able to stand up and revolt, or will we continue being the badly beaten, hard working horses that some people exploit for their gain. Only time will tell.



 this should be in a archive or something similar for future generations to read.


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## Bhargav Simha (Sep 5, 2013)

Raaabo said:


> Porn? Libido? Alcohol? What utter rubbish.
> 
> Sorry, but it's true. Rape is a power play, and some men just revel in that power. It's usually after they've gotten away with other crimes, and the next step is murder. All of you here desire women, or men, and all women desire men or other women, that's based on sexuality and nothing more. You may look at someone gorgeous, or someone wearing revealing clothes in real life or tv, and get turned on even, but how does that lead to rape?
> 
> ...



This I agree...



Raaabo said:


> True, the patriarchal mindset in India does make it easier for most Indian men to see women as inferior, and that does contribute to the Indian problem to some extent. Yes culture shocks also may account for a tiny fraction of the cases, but it still has to be within the context of seeing women as inferior, or just good for one thing.
> 
> Some have even suggested that the reason is arranged marriage. A boy goes about looking at pure physical qualities of various women, chooses one who he feels will make a good lay, gets married and then has his way with her as and when he pleases for the rest of his life. It's just another way of making women inferior, by giving them no say in who they marry and indeed sleep with. Now educated society usually has ways to enhance this experience and gives the girl also a say, but in villages they aren't so lucky.



This not as much... You are trying to suggest that the mindset a percentage of the indian society is the indian mindset....dont forget that people who think like you are also part of the indian mindset.. all of us dont think the same.Also rape is problem in india only, but is prelevent in all most all of the countries...
Also goverment acts as the people say it to...


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## Zangetsu (Sep 5, 2013)

Raaabo said:


> *Anyone on this forum claiming to "not watch porn" is lying*, and we all know it.


 who who...



Raaabo said:


> Many of you drink as well I assume, (I don't for the record, but all my friends do), did you ever find yourself thinking about raping someone when high or drunk? Yes you may drink alcohol and find yourself thinking you are suddenly Gods gift to women, and flirting with them or acting macho, and making a fool of yourself, but if you think you might ever drag a girl / woman into a dark spot and rape when under the influence please seek psychiatric help immediately.
> 
> Rapists typically do not even see a woman as a woman....


Good point 
that means power is making us blind (we don't think in a civilized way)
and really this is loosing its real value
_"With great power comes great responsibility"
~By spiderman_



Bhargav Simha said:


> Also rape is problem in india only, but is prelevent in all most all of the countries...


the mindset of rapist in any country is almost same/similar


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## theterminator (Sep 5, 2013)

Zangetsu said:


> _"With great power comes great responsibility"
> *~By spiderman*_



Hell no, its Parker's late uncle.


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## Anorion (Sep 6, 2013)

Getting raped by unknown persons is only 2% of the problem

In 98% rape cases, accused known to victims: NCRB report


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## Raaabo (Sep 6, 2013)

Anorion said:


> Getting raped by unknown persons is only 2% of the problem
> 
> In 98% rape cases, accused known to victims: NCRB report



Same for murder, usually the victims and criminals know each other. Still doesn't change the reason for why it happens, or how they think. Yes they may pick easy targets they know of, or maybe cases of rape by strangers are reported less. Numbers are only good when you have faith in their veracity, and none of us has that in India.

In fact, even for a minute if you assume that the majority of cases are done by known people, regardless of the actual percentage, this again shows the mindset of the average Indian man, and how shameful it is that he looks at women as mere playthings or subservient weaklings. Very sad, and we need to give women more power to change this, but will that ever happen? Our culture forbids it, and we insist on clinging to it like a safety blanket. Unfortunately, the blanket's doused in kerosene, and the nation's on fire - cling away and burn with everyone else!


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## Zangetsu (Sep 6, 2013)

*Revenge* 
Rapist burnt to death by victim in MP - The Times of India


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## Raaabo (Sep 6, 2013)

When you don't see the law giving you justice, this is what you are left with. If I was the victim's brother and saw the man walking about freely, I cannot truthfully say I wouldn't have done the same.


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## Bhargav Simha (Sep 6, 2013)

And I would have done exactly the same or something even worse...

We need strong laws against rape... something like the witchunt of the mideval era should be started again and the rapists should be burnt alive on stakes..
The society should stand behind the victim and punish the culprits. A single woman may appear weak in the eyes of the rapist.. but when he knows the rest of the society stands behind her he will know his place..
In cases like the delhi rape case... the culprits should be hanged and not only that.. the lawyers and supporters of such as****** should be alienated from the society..
It may should harsh, conisiderng the equality of justice BS.. But when they have accepted, that they commited the crime, they should have been shot dead or worse(making them feel the excruciating pain the victim went through...)
Also Rape scenes should be banned from the movies or television.. our film industry has the habit of using rape scenes like item songs. They elaborate the rape scenes too much, compare them with the first night scenes (jut light off) and you will understand the sadistic views of the film makers and the audience who encourage them..and the rapists get ideas from seeing the scenes.


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## bssunilreddy (Sep 7, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> And I would have done exactly the same or something even worse...
> 
> We need strong laws against rape... something like the witchunt of the mideval era should be started again and the rapists should be burnt alive on stakes..
> The society should stand behind the victim and punish the culprits. A single woman may appear weak in the eyes of the rapist.. but when he knows the rest of the society stands behind her he will know his place..
> ...



Medieval Era justice should be implemented but not their customs man... Its like if a certain woman's horoscope says that her husband will die if she ever marries then she will first be married to a tree or an animal so that her real human husband does not die if she marries him. I am talking about such stupid customs and superstitions but medieval era legal practices used to be harsh so that people used to think twice before committing such gruesome crimes. Even justice is delayed now....


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## Chetan1991 (Sep 9, 2013)

@Raaabo Unique insight. Never could have imagined rape's an expression of dominance. How is overpowering a physically weaker human make them feel more manly? It's like they don't have a concept of honor. I was assuming every man in functional family is taught during childhood hitting anyone weaker than him and unarmed is wrong. It seems solipsism is strong in this one.




> Rapists typically do not even see a woman as a woman, she's just a toy to be used and discarded, and no better than an animal.


That's something I can't bring myself to imagine, even upon trying very hard. If this is true then rapists are emotionally stunted narcissists who cannot see beyond their own desires and needs.



> We are also taught that power is everything. The rich display power, they can get the poor into trouble with their contacts.


Agreed. Status flaunting is a big problem in our country. It is sad to see impatience, arrogance and uncivilized behavior in majority of citizens of a country where ancient texts have been teaching against such vices since millennia.


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## Raaabo (Sep 9, 2013)

@Chetan we cannot imagine it or understand it because we could never think that way, but psychologists around the world speaking to rapists and murderers have this as one of the possible explanations. How else can you explain it? What must go through the minds of such people when their victim is screaming and crying for help and mercy, and then to still go through with it. To beat an emotionally distraught human, to force something like that, and then enjoy it to the point of orgasm... How can it be anything else but just a depraved animal instinct. Worse than animals, because predators only kill for food, and only toy with food to train their young to hunt, but never to just inflict pain for no reason except selfishness.


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## Zangetsu (Sep 10, 2013)

Raaabo said:


> How can it be anything else but just a depraved animal instinct. Worse than animals, because predators only kill for food, and only toy with food to train their young to hunt, but never to just inflict pain for no reason except selfishness.


Man is the most dangerous among all animals


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## Desmond (Sep 17, 2013)

I thought that India was notorious for rapes. After reading this, I stand corrected.

The Ghost Rapes of Bolivia | VICE United States

Read the whole article.


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## Zangetsu (Sep 17, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I thought that *India was notorious* for rapes.


No No..its only we indian are discussing this topic in India otherwise its a universal problem in various other countries


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## Desmond (Sep 17, 2013)

Zangetsu said:


> No No..its only we indian are discussing this topic in India otherwise its a universal problem in various other countries



But look at the method they are using. Its a new level of perversion.


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## Desmond (Oct 19, 2013)

A very good example of rapes caused due to no fear of the law or having control of the law.

I'm Daisy Coleman, The Teenager At The Center Of The Maryville Rape Media Storm, And This Is What Really Happened | xoJane


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## Anorion (Oct 27, 2013)

> Myth:  Do not go out alone at any time. Women are most likely to be raped outside, in dark alleyways late at night. This is the best way for a woman to protect herself.
> 
> Fact The suggestion of avoiding walking alone, especially at night is a common suggestion to avoiding sexual assault. However, only 9% of rapes are committed by 'strangers'. Women are raped in their homes and in their work places where they are less likely to be believed and even less likely to report. Around 90% of rapes are committed by known men. (thats for uk, in india this is 98%)
> 
> ...


More here > Common misconceptions about rape


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## rhitwick (Oct 27, 2013)

> *Megan's Law - Facts about Sex Offenders*
> 
> Let us see how much we know-and see how much of what we think has been based on the myths we have all heard about sexual assault and sex offenders. Take 5 minutes to complete the True or False Quiz:
> 
> ...



And this,


> *Power Rapists – Goal to Humiliate*
> Power Reassurance (a.k.a. “gentleman rapist,” opportunity rapist, compensatory)
> 
> *>Motivation*
> ...



For more details refer this thread *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-clu...uld-ideal-punishment-rapists.html#post1810903 (request to not to post anything in that thread, use that as a reference)


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