# CPU and GPU upgrade (AMD and Radeon)



## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Hi Folks...

One of my friends is going to upgrade his proccy and get a discrete gpu.

Total budget - 15K.

Current config - 

AMD X2 (dont know more than this)
*Asus M4A785D-M Pro*
DDR2 RAM (dont know how much)
Crappy PSU (ya he's got some bull-crap psu and wont upgrade it...so I say, let it blow and let him learn "it" the hard way)
Some crapshit cabby (Frontech I think)

and the usual sh1t!!

Ok, so he is going to upgrade to a X4 (I do not have any idea about AMD proccys - so I will just assume this is an upgrade from a dual-core to a quad-core proccy)

And he wants to buy a discrete GPU (in his words, a "1 GB RAM GPU" - ya, he is ur typical more-VRAM=more performance-and-thats-it kind of guy)

So, I need help from u guys in deciding the best proc+gpu combo his 15K is gonna get him....

I am guessing the X4 shud come within 5K. so that leaves us with 10K for the GPU.

Plz suggest.

My friend likes to game at medium to low settings...basically he will go from high to low till it works...(so ya, u might find him at 640X480 with everything turned off, simply for the sake of playing the game)

I think (and I am not sure of it)...that a 6 series Radeon might bottleneck, given the rest of his old hardware (not so sure how new a model a X4 is, I am bad with AMD CPUs like I said earlier)

So I was thinking may be a 5 series GPU with DDR3 VRAM might be it???
(Me thinks GDDR5 VRAM might be a bottleneck???? yes/no???)

I think the 5670 1GB DDR3 will come in at around 4K...

Whoa hope he's not reading this; coz if he sees 6K getting saved, he will get this before I have had a chance of completing this post!!  

Anyway, no use my guessing around like a fool!! Let me just shut up!

Step in with ur suggestion guys!!

Thanks.

Keep in mind that - 
We have about 2 weeks before we hit Chandni!
Dont suggest any online shops!


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

If your friend wants a decent gaming system, he can try the Phenom II X4 CPUs... I have the 955 BE which i got at ~6.5-6.7K.. For GPU, if you want HD5xxx series, a good one would be HD5770 by MSI or Sapphire... That would come to ~7K.. Correct me if im wrong, guys...

For cheaper investment, go for Athlon II X4 CPUs... Stick to the 5xxx GPUs and tell him to buy a decent PSU!


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> If your friend wants a decent gaming system, he can try the Phenom II X4 CPUs... I have the 955 BE which i got at ~6.5-6.7K.. For GPU, if you want HD5xxx series, a good one would be HD5770 by MSI or Sapphire... That would come to ~7K.. Correct me if im wrong, guys...
> 
> For cheaper investment, go for Athlon II X4 CPUs... Stick to the 5xxx GPUs and tell him to buy a decent PSU!



Tell him to buy a decent PSU???? A hundred billion times...so many that now I wish that his PSU blows up so that he finally learns his lesson!! 

Ok now for some noob questions from me-

..955 BE, u say...is it any good with DDR2 ram? (Darn, I hate the fact that I dont know sh1t about AMD CPUs)

HD5770 comes with GDDR5 memory right? Bottlenecks?? (super fast cpu+very fast gpu+snail-paced ram)


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

I have never used a Radeon card before, so i cant tell about GDDR5 bottlenecks... I have only used ddr2 vram... 

But the Phenom II 955 BE should be backwards compatible with DDR2 ram...

PS: Dont get the BE if your friend wont OC... BE stands for Black Edition.. This is the series of AMD processors specially made for OCers.. Get the non-BE Phenoms...

And dont take my word for it! Im new to this forum.. Get the blessings of Topgear, Skud, Tkin, Nginx, Nil260gtx and the other gurus before doing anything! I just gave my 2 cents...

Just for reference:
*www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/cpu/amd/x4_955/p1.asp

And im a bigger noob than you, so there!


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> I have never used a Radeon card before, so i cant tell about GDDR5 bottlenecks... I have only used ddr2 vram...
> 
> But the Phenom II 955 BE should be backwards compatible with DDR2 ram...
> 
> PS: Dont get the BE if your friend wont OC... BE stands for Black Edition.. This is the series of AMD processors specially made for OCers.. Get the non-BE Phenoms...



OC?? he got the Pro board and hell, he doesnt even open the tweaking app that comes with it!!!! Forget it, he never gonna OC unless there's a gun to his head!! 

Ok, so I gather Phenom II X4 (maybe 955 non BE) is a proccy he can safely get...and this would be around 6K, I am guessing..so far so good!!

Now lets focus on the GPU ??......

Come on guys, no more takers???


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

Ok, made a massive noob error... Most Phenom II are Black Edition only.. I dont think they have non-BE CPUs in that series... Anyway, there are a lot of good cpus between the 4-7K range... Mah bad, Mario.. Sorry bro..


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> Ok, made a massive noob error... Most Phenom II are Black Edition only.. I dont think they have non-BE CPUs in that series... Anyway, there are a lot of good cpus between the 4-7K range... Mah bad, Mario.. Sorry bro..



no problem dude!!


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## Cilus (Jun 8, 2011)

There are no Non BE Phenom II X4 955 processor, all of them are BE and comes with unlocked multiplier.
Since you have already decided the processor, you are now with 9K of cash. Get FSp SAGA II 500W @ 2K from smcinternational.in as it os not available in Kolkata. If you are buying from Chandni, spend 3K to get Tagan Stonerock 500W 

Rest of the money can be used to get a Sapphire HD 6770 1 GB @ 7.1K (if PSU is FSP SAGA II 500) or Sapphire HD 6750 1 GB @ 5.8K (if the PSU is Tagan Stonerock)


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## coderunknown (Jun 8, 2011)

@Cilus bro. no to good psu & online shopping. 

@Mario, X4 955BE + HD5770 1Gb should fit within the budget. & ask your friend run game at highest possible setting. Psu will blow up sooner.

or a 2nd combo is Phenom II X4 840 (it is an Athlon II X4 chip) with HD6850.


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## SlashDK (Jun 8, 2011)

Phenom ii x4 925 & 945.are non BE parts. Get:
AMD Phenom ii x4 925 @ 5k
Gigabyte 880gm ud2h @ 4k
Corsair 2 gb ddr3 1333MHz @ 1k
HD 5670 512 MB @ 3.75k
FSP saga ii 350w @ 1.4k

Tell him that in the graphic cards he will get for his budget 512 MB and 1 GB VRAM won't make any difference. Also, tell him to sell of his old DDR2 RAM. He can use the extra money to but another GB of DDR3 RAM which is cheaper than DDR2 these days.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

Sorry for posting this here, but i cant figure out where to post this:

@Cybertronic,

How is the 880GM-UD2H board by Gigabyte? I bought this board last december and i just want to know, how much upgradability can i expect from it? Besides the RAM, i mean...

If anyone can tell me anything else about this board, please do.. and thanks a tonne in advance!


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

CPU can be upgraded up to Phenom II X6 1100T, RAM up to 16gb DDR3 2300 if you use slot 3 & 4, for slot 1 & 2 it is limited to DDR3 1600, up to 5 internal SATA devices, and any graphics card that you care to throw.


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Cilus said:


> There are no Non BE Phenom II X4 955 processor, all of them are BE and comes with unlocked multiplier.
> Since you have already decided the processor, you are now with 9K of cash. Get FSp SAGA II 500W @ 2K from smcinternational.in as it os not available in Kolkata. If you are buying from Chandni, spend 3K to get Tagan Stonerock 500W
> 
> Rest of the money can be used to get a Sapphire HD 6770 1 GB @ 7.1K (if PSU is FSP SAGA II 500) or Sapphire HD 6750 1 GB @ 5.8K (if the PSU is Tagan Stonerock)



Cilus, he wont get *anything* but the gpu and the proccy! Why else do u think I want his psu to blow (and perhaps some components along with it as well)



Sam said:


> @Cilus bro. no to good psu & online shopping.
> 
> @Mario, X4 955BE + HD5770 1Gb should fit within the budget. & ask your friend run game at highest possible setting. Psu will blow up sooner.
> 
> or a 2nd combo is Phenom II X4 840 (it is an Athlon II X4 chip) with HD6850.



Hmm...good suggestions!



Cybertonic said:


> Phenom ii x4 925 & 945.are non BE parts. Get:
> AMD Phenom ii x4 925 @ 5k
> Gigabyte 880gm ud2h @ 4k
> Corsair 2 gb ddr3 1333MHz @ 1k
> ...



hahahhahaahahaha!! thats what his reaction would be to this suggestion!!

Thanks for all the input guys....can you post some power draw numbers for the BE 955 and the 6770 gpu?


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

Thanks Skud.. And can you please tell me the difference between Hybrid Crossfire and normal Crossfire? In the 880GM-UD2H board, im pretty sure you cant have a dual gpu set up, can you?

And sorry for jacking your thread, Mario..


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## mukherjee (Jun 8, 2011)

Not sure but *BE 955* should consume between *95-125W @ stock* and 

*HD 6770* around *75-100W @* stock.


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> Thanks Skud.. And can you please tell me the difference between Hybrid Crossfire and normal Crossfire? In the 880GM-UD2H board, im pretty sure you cant have a dual gpu set up, can you?
> 
> And sorry for jacking your thread, Mario..



Normal Xfire --> 2 discrete radeon gpus x-fired!!
Hybrid Xfire --> 1 onboard (mobo inbuilt) radeon gpu and another discrete radeon gpu --> X-fired!!

Note that hybrid xfire is a mobo feature...only *some* cards can be hybrid x-fired with the onboard gpu!!



mukherjee said:


> Not sure but *BE 955* should consume between *95-125W @ stock* and
> 
> *HD 6770* around *75-100W @* stock.



Idle 75W and load 100W ???


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## soumo27 (Jun 8, 2011)

Mario said:


> Cilus, he wont get *anything* but the gpu and the proccy! Why else do u think I want his psu to blow (and perhaps some components along with it as well)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Post entire System Specs here and u will get the required power wattage:-

eXtreme Power Supply Calculator


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> Thanks Skud.. And can you please tell me the difference between Hybrid Crossfire and normal Crossfire? In the 880GM-UD2H board, im pretty sure you cant have a dual gpu set up, can you?
> 
> And sorry for jacking your thread, Mario..




880G can Hybrid Crossfire with 5670, 5570, 5550 & 5450. See here:-

*sites.amd.com/PublishingImages/Public/Graphic_Illustrations/WebBannerJPEG/AMD_CrossfireX_Chart_1618W.jpg

So quite a wide range of options there.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

Ah well.. Thanks again, Skud.. But i think better option will be to just buy an HD5770.. wont buy now, maybe in November, as a personal b'day present 
If newer GPU prices go down, i'll be in a dilemma and i'll be pestering you with questions again!


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

You are always welcome buddy


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 8, 2011)

According to common sense, i dont think you should Crossfire or SLI on a MicroATX board.. Because of the less amount of space between the 2 GPUs... At least an ATX board is recommended, right?


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Ok!! Good news!! I have finally convinced him to go for the Saga PSU!! That too online!!

But CX430 is 2350+VAT at MD..so maybe might get that too!!

And I think 400W would be enough for his rig!!

So here's what I have been deciding on - 

CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 955 Rev C3 (HDZ955FBK4DGM) or even 965 Rev C3 (HDZ965FBK4DGM) - hopefully within 7K!! 

PSU - CX430 V2 - 2.5K (guys, any issues with CX430 ?? )

GPU - Radeon 6770 - 7.5K

Total - 7+2.5+7.5 = 17K + 4% VAT = INR 17680!!

I have convinced him to cough up 2K more!! (Told him he would be able to game at high settings if he gets the PSU, otherwise zilch!! That did the trick!!     )

Now do u ppl have any better suggestions?


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

Some good news for you: Phenom II X4 955 is 5500 and 965 is 6300 at SMC. So your final cost might come down.


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Skud said:


> Some good news for you: Phenom II X4 955 is 5500 and 965 is 6300 at SMC. So your final cost might come down.



Super!!

Any GPU where I might put the extra money? Keep in mind the power draw though!!


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

What's the resolution you are going to use?


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Skud said:


> What's the resolution you are going to use?



Its not for me...its for one of my friends!! Can we start at 1920X1200 and work it downwards?


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## Skud (Jun 8, 2011)

What's the size of the current monitor? Is he going to game at the resolution you mentioned?


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## Mario (Jun 8, 2011)

Skud said:


> What's the size of the current monitor? Is he going to game at the resolution you mentioned?



He has some samsung monitor...I think between 17 to 19 inch! I dont know if he's gonna game at 1920X1200 (I dont think so) but I just suggested that to get started!!

May be I asked the wrong question. Let me rephrase - 

Take the 6770 at 7.1K as base! Now is there any Radeon slightly better than the 6770, *with a similar or slightly higher TDP than that of the 6770*,  within say 7.7K that he can get?

Oh! Another very important question...forgot to ask..

Guys, which Radeon partner board to get? Sapphire right?? or MSI ?


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## soumo27 (Jun 8, 2011)

Yeah a 6790 but that will cost near about 8K


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

Sapphire or MSI both will do. Plus there's XFX if God is kind enough to keep you away from Rashi . If you ask me I am not a fan of OCed cards so I prefer cards at default clocks with good coolers. If you get the 955 then you can save 1.5k there. Add this to your graphics card's budget and it becomes 9k. Add a maximum of 1k and you can get a 6850, good enough to play most of the games at 1080p and blast through almost all of them at 13x7 res of 17-19 inchers.


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## Mario (Jun 9, 2011)

soumo27 said:


> Yeah a 6790 but that will cost near about 8K



6770 does slightly better in AA and AF than 6790 (6790 lesser texel and pixel rate than 6770)...only good thing I can see is 6790 mem bandwidth is double of 6770!!

But nail in coffin is this.. Max TDP for 6790 is 150W...for 6770 its ~100!!

Sorry not getting 6790...if he blows his rig despite the CX, he will literally hang me dude!! 

I think 6770 is final!

Guys, just suggest a board partner now!! Sapphire/MSI others?? Whose custom cooler is better? and any OC-ed edition (toxic/vapor??) for 6770 ?



Skud said:


> Sapphire or MSI both will do. Plus there's XFX if God is kind enough to keep you away from Rashi . If you ask me I am not a fan of OCed cards so I prefer cards at default clocks with good coolers. If you get the 955 then you can save 1.5k there. Add this to your graphics card's budget and it becomes 9k. Add a maximum of 1k and you can get a 6850, good enough to play most of the games at 1080p and blast through almost all of them at 13x7 res of 17-19 inchers.



Hmm...6850 seems good! Price of 1GB version plz?


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

6850 comes with 1gb memory only - price is 9.5k +/-. But first be sure your SMPS (CX430) could run it without any problem. I am not very sure.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

Whatever GPU you buy for your friend, take an update from him on how he's gaming with it... I am planning on buying a new GPU sometime in November, so i need all the advice i can get!


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## Mario (Jun 9, 2011)

Skud said:


> 6850 comes with 1gb memory only - price is 9.5k +/-. But first be sure your SMPS (CX430) could run it without any problem. I am not very sure.



Let me check at Soumo's link!!



Mario said:


> Let me check at Soumo's link!!



Hmm...it comes to around 400W...should be ok, right??


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## soumo27 (Jun 9, 2011)

Mario said:


> 6770 does slightly better in AA and AF than 6790 (6790 lesser texel and pixel rate than 6770)...only good thing I can see is 6790 mem bandwidth is double of 6770!!
> 
> But nail in coffin is this.. Max TDP for 6790 is 150W...for 6770 its ~100!!
> 
> ...




Yea power requirments might be a factor in case of6790.... And I think u can get 6770 Vapor Edition within 7.7K

This is CX430 V1 or V2 that u're getting????


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## Mario (Jun 9, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> Whatever GPU you buy for your friend, take an update from him on how he's gaming with it... I am planning on buying a new GPU sometime in November, so i need all the advice i can get!



Ya sure thing...



soumo27 said:


> Yea power requirments might be a factor in case of6790.... And I think u can get 6770 Vapor Edition within 7.7K
> 
> This is CX430 V1 or V2 that u're getting????



Hopefully V2..not sure yet...will post back once bought!!


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## mukherjee (Jun 9, 2011)

Mario said:


> Idle 75W and load 100W ???



No..you got me wrong..that is the *max power consumption*...Isnt it what u want to know?


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> Whatever GPU you buy for your friend, take an update from him on how he's gaming with it... I am planning on buying a new GPU sometime in November, so i need all the advice i can get!




By that time we will be talking about Geforce 6xx and Radeon 7xxx, my friend!!!




Mario said:


> Let me check at Soumo's link!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm...it comes to around 400W...should be ok, right??




Borderline OK.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

Skud said:


> By that time we will be talking about Geforce 6xx and Radeon 7xxx, my friend!!!




Yeah, i know.. Technology advances move at the speed of light... >.<

I just hope that the HD77xx series cards later this year will be more power efficient...  Then i might not have to change my PSU... >.<


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

In all probability they would be, for similar level of performance of earlier generation cards. Are you going to wait for next gen cards?


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

I am extremely fickle minded, bro... I just want something thats good value for money.. Im not very eager to dish out over 10K for a gpu, because im still using a 3 year old LG crt monitor whose max resolution is 1280x1024... 

But upto 10K sounds good for me.. Decent performance at decent price.. Which is why i bought a Phenom II over the I5-750.. I know the i5 is quite ahead of the 955 BE.. But i got the latter at under 6.5K..


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## Mario (Jun 9, 2011)

mukherjee said:


> No..you got me wrong..that is the *max power consumption*...Isnt it what u want to know?



Yes, of course  Thanks 



Skud said:


> By that time we will be talking about Geforce 6xx and Radeon 7xxx, my friend!!!



Seriously?? r we looking at new 6 series green and 7 series red by Nov?
Even I am looking forward to getting a GPU around that time...I had initially decided on the MSI GTX 560 Ti Hawk but well, if a 6 series partner card comes for around 15K, has almot the same TDP as the HAWK (or can be driven by the 550VX) and is not 1KM long, I will definitely get the newer versions!!


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

1km long... Wahahahahahahahaha!!!!! good one, Mario...


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## soumo27 (Jun 9, 2011)

^^@Mario..

The cx430 u were planning to buy is V1... I called MD today..
it's price is 2350+ and they dont have v2 



Mario said:


> Yes, of course  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At that price range; imo, the GTX 560 is the one u should be getting


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

Mario said:


> Yes, of course  Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...




7 series will probably come before bulldozer the way AMD is moving.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

The techies at AMD are a silent bunch... Full of surprises, that lot are!


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

Better. They bring Athlon 64 out of nowhere and it was hit. So was the Radeon 4800 series. And in ATi days recall Radeon 9700. Too much hype surrounding a product often leads to abnormally high costs, not meeting expectations and worst, a failed product.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

When Intel came out with the hexacore processors, they cost around $1000! But when AMD did the same a short while later, their Thuban cores cost around $200 more or less...

And at one point of time, they had the best dual cores... I used to have an Athlon 64 X2 dual core. With that and a 9500 GT from MSI, i played games up to World in Conflict and Dawn of War 2! It was a good CPU.. Nay, a great one!

Now, even the Phenom II dual cores look pretty delectable...

This is purely IMO... Intel offers great processing at a premium, but AMD offers very good processing at a budget cost...

Oh yeah, Intel has a massive advertising base...


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## Mario (Jun 9, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> 1km long... Wahahahahahahahaha!!!!! good one, Mario...



See this man

*in.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1156/P7H55M_LX/websites/Global/products/xGrA4QggsKTKMJLW/w1BVhfgzhR1wktnL_70.jpg

See how close that x16 comes to the DIMM clips? I am scared even a 560 HAWK isnt going to fit in there!!!




soumo27 said:


> ^^@Mario..
> 
> The cx430 u were planning to buy is V1... I called MD today..
> it's price is 2350+ and they dont have v2



Hmm...too bad, they dont have v2...anyway, I am not buying, I just convinced my friend to upgrade his crap psu..V1 is definitely better than the frontech crap he has!!



soumo27 said:


> At that price range; imo, the GTX 560 is the one u should be getting



Ya I targeted the 560 HAWK....but if 6 series stuff does come out by Nov and has similar TDP, price and length then I'll definitely get the new stuff!!



Souro_Ray said:


> When Intel came out with the hexacore processors, they cost around $1000! But when AMD did the same a short while later, their Thuban cores cost around $200 more or less...
> 
> And at one point of time, they had the best dual cores... I used to have an Athlon 64 X2 dual core. With that and a 9500 GT from MSI, i played games up to World in Conflict and Dawn of War 2! It was a good CPU.. Nay, a great one!
> 
> ...



Agreed!! For any budget PC, AMD is the way to go!!



Skud said:


> 7 series will probably come before bulldozer the way AMD is moving.



I thought BDs were supposed to hit this July??? By that count, 7xxx-s shud have hit already!! May be I heard wrong!

=======================================
Anyway 6950 is 10K+VAT..so out of the question!

Final configuration for my friend -->

Phenom II 965BE
Sapphire 6770
CX 430 V1

==================================

What the hell? Why is that image I linked to so small?

I tried doing in some html img attributes to it but it does not grow in size!!

What am I doing wrong?


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## Skud (Jun 9, 2011)

Mario said:


> I thought BDs were supposed to hit this July??? By that count, 7xxx-s shud have hit already!! May be I heard wrong!
> 
> =======================================
> Anyway 6950 is 10K+VAT..so out of the question!
> ...




BD won't be available in retail until September. Your friend's config looks fine, And please do something about that image.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 9, 2011)

Good stuff, Mario... I'm also rearing up for a GPU, but got no cash... 

But first thing, i have to get a CPU cooler and a new case.. My current Gigabyte is good, but lacks ventilation... Going for a CM Elite 430... I like the idea of bottom mounted PSUs...   it gives my comp a chance to let hot air out of its butt rather than the back of its head...


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## soumo27 (Jun 9, 2011)

@Mario

Yeah its always better than Frontech... 

Well MD is also not having cx 400... they have cx 500.. but that is not 80+ certified, too.


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## Mario (Jun 10, 2011)

Skud said:


> BD won't be available in retail until September. Your friend's config looks fine, And please do something about that image.



how to make it bigger man?


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## Cilus (Jun 10, 2011)

Mario said:


> 6770 does slightly better in AA and AF than 6790 (6790 lesser texel and pixel rate than 6770)...only good thing I can see is 6790 mem bandwidth is double of 6770!!
> 
> But nail in coffin is this.. Max TDP for 6790 is 150W...for 6770 its ~100!!
> 
> ...



Mario, dont put misleading information withut understanding what you are writing. HD 6770 is just a re-branded HD 5770, based on the old juniper architecture and has 40 Texture unit and 16 ROPS.

HD 6790, on the other hand, based on the updated BART architecture which is far optimized version of the 5000 series architecture. their stream processors are far more efficient then 5000 series. A HD 6870 with its 1140 stream processors offers performance better than a HD 5850 with 1440 stream processor. Also the tessellation units of BART provide better tessellation performance.
Now HD 6790 is also having same number of stream processors, ROPs and Texturing units as HD 6770 but it is based on BART architecture and more efficient + HD 6790 has 256 bit memory bus, providing double the bandwidth of HD 6770.  So its better than HD 6770 and HD 6770 does not provide better AA and AF performance. Check any review.


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## sukesh1090 (Jun 10, 2011)

yes i also heard that hd 6770 and i think also hd 6750 are re branded models of their corresponding 5000 series and there is no performance difference.


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## soumo27 (Jun 10, 2011)

Well, isn't a 5850 better than a 6850??? 
I saw an online site quoting 5850 at 9.5K yesterday// Is it any good? And they are not stocking any 5850 locally, in Kolkata, I guess!!


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## Skud (Jun 10, 2011)

5850 better than 6850, but recent drivers have narrowed down the gap. Plus the tessellation performance of the 6000 series is better than their respective 5000 series except 5770/6770 and 5750/6750 because they are the same cake with slightly different toppings.

So at the same price point, go for the newer product ie, 6850. It consumes less power, heats up less while delivering the same level of performance of a 5850.


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## soumo27 (Jun 10, 2011)

Skud said:


> 5850 better than 6850, but recent drivers have narrowed down the gap. Plus the tessellation performance of the 6000 series is better than their respective 5000 series except 5770/6770 and 5750/6750 because they are the same cake with slightly different toppings.
> 
> So at the same price point, go for the newer product ie, 6850. It consumes less power, heats up less while delivering the same level of performance of a 5850.



yea i see... i am not buying it...just inquiring ..


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## sukesh1090 (Jun 10, 2011)

but still i think he can play all games in 19" monitor(1366X768) with 6670 or 5770 for a long time at high settings.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 10, 2011)

According to wikipedia, the HD7xxx will utilise smaller sized die, which will allow for more stream processors... Can you please explain what stream processors are? And is more stream processors better? Sorry, please bear with my newbie questions..


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## Skud (Jun 10, 2011)

sukesh1090 said:


> but still i think he can play all games in 19" monitor(1366X768) with* 6670 or 5770* for a long time at high settings.



You are thinking in right direction buddy. BTW, that's a 6770 I presume.


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## soumo27 (Jun 10, 2011)

^^a 6670/5670 can also make things playable at that resolution with high settings......but not for a long time, though..


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## Cilus (Jun 10, 2011)

Souro_Ray said:


> According to wikipedia, the HD7xxx will utilise smaller sized die, which will allow for more stream processors... Can you please explain what stream processors are? And is more stream processors better? Sorry, please bear with my newbie questions..



Stream processors or unified shaders are a standard starting from nVidia 8000 series and AMD 3000 series which actually embedded the Vertex processing unit(Vertex Shader unit), Pixel processing Unit (Pixel Shader Unit) and Reverser station ( to store the fetched instructions) into a single unit called Stream processors.
in case of nvidia, each of the stream processors is capable of processing a single thread and utilize the TLP or thread level parallelism whereas in case of AMD/ATI a group of 5 stream processors (in case of ATI 4000, 5000 and 6800 series) or 4 stream processors (in case of HD 6900 series) are grouped together to process one thread. For example HD 5870 is having 1600 stream processors means it actually has (1600/5) =320 independent units and each of them can process a different thread. Unlike nvidia, AMD takes the benefit of Instruction level parallelism or ILP and can process multiple instructions simultaneously inside one thread.

And yes, more number of stream processor means more performance.


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## sukesh1090 (Jun 10, 2011)

@skud, 
 yes sorry it is 6770.and i think 6670 will also does the job at that resolution at least for two years.
 @cilus,
 In the previous post you told this,


> A HD 6870 with its 1140 stream processors offers performance better than a HD 5850 with 1440 stream processor


 so how can is it possible?i don't know much about this,so just an inquiry.


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## ico (Jun 10, 2011)

Just explaining what Cilus said through a diagram:


Spoiler



*images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/ATI/4800/ilp.png



This actually results in AMD having a smaller die size. Smaller die size = more chips per wafer. More chips per wafer = chances of a better yield and more profit.

You have to see, HD 6970 is only 389 sq. mm and the competing GTX 570 is 520 sq. mm.

From HD 6900 series, AMD uses VLIW4 which is 4 instructions wide instead of VLIW5 because AMD felt that VLIW5 was being underutilized and it was better to have one unit cut for better transistor efficiency. They also wanted to add more tweaks/features to their HD 6900 cards but were not able to do so because of TSMC's delayed 28nm fabrication.

I'll also give you a small example between GTX 460 and HD 6850/6870 (VLIW5).

GTX 460 has 336 stream processors according to nVidia. HD 6850 and HD 6870 have 960 and 1120 respectively which work in groups of 5. If you want you could also say, 192 and 224 stream processors. Both HD 6850 and HD 6870 still manage to outperform GTX 460.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 10, 2011)

@Cilus and ico

Thanks guys.. That kind of clears things up a bit in my head...

@ico,

Thanks for fixing my posting problem, bro...


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## Cilus (Jun 10, 2011)

sukesh1090 said:


> @skud,
> yes sorry it is 6770.and i think 6670 will also does the job at that resolution at least for two years.
> @cilus,
> In the previous post you told this,
> ...



AMD BART architecture uses more efficient Stream processors than their old 5000 series. So each of the stream processors are more capable than the 5000 series stream processors and can perform more tasks in a given time frame. As a result even with less number of stream processors, a HD 6870 can beat a HD 5850 because of its advanced design.

For example the 1st generation 3.2 GHz Pentium D dual core processors can't beat the 1.86 GHz Core2Duo processors as Core2Duo has far better architecture than the Pentium D processors.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 10, 2011)

yeah, that makes sense... A 2ghz dual core AMD outperforms a 3.2ghz single core Intel... Experienced it... You read about comparisons.. but when you see for yourself a certain advertised new product actually beating a slightly older product, it feels weird..


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## Mario (Jun 10, 2011)

Cilus said:


> Mario, dont put misleading information withut understanding what you are writing. HD 6770 is just a re-branded HD 5770, based on the old juniper architecture and has 40 Texture unit and 16 ROPS.
> 
> HD 6790, on the other hand, based on the updated BART architecture which is far optimized version of the 5000 series architecture. their stream processors are far more efficient then 5000 series. A HD 6870 with its 1140 stream processors offers performance better than a HD 5850 with 1440 stream processor. Also the tessellation units of BART provide better tessellation performance.
> Now HD 6790 is also having same number of stream processors, ROPs and Texturing units as HD 6770 but it is based on BART architecture and more efficient + HD 6790 has 256 bit memory bus, providing double the bandwidth of HD 6770.  So its better than HD 6770 and HD 6770 does not provide better AA and AF performance. Check any review.



Cilus, I know Barts > Juniper! I also know 6770-5770=label change only!! But,

if you consider *only* the 6790, despite being Barts LE, its a severly crippled Barts...which brings it down to almost the same spec as the 6770 Juniper XT on paper at least!! Which is the point I was trying to make! Dont have time to waste on "putting misleading information withut understanding what you are writing"! 

The only mistake I made was I read too much on *these* charts !! You got to give it, in theory, the 6770 looks > than the 6790...and the crippled Barts architecture does not help!!

Having said that, I checked the Guru3D VGA charts and mostly I see the 6790 edging out the 6770/5770 by a mere 3~5 fps on average! No doubt, this is the double mem bandwidth in play here!!

Don't get me wrong! I am not saying Barts architecture makes no difference as compared to Juniper! But the impact of the new architecture is not so much in the case of the 6790 as in other 6xxx cases!!



> despite featuring a larger and more capable GPU, the Radeon HD 6790's specifications are strikingly similar to those of the Radeon HD 5770, which AMD now sells in pre-built PCs as the Radeon HD 6770.
> From a bird's eye view, the 6790's only notable holdover from the 6800 series is the 256-bit memory interface, which the 5770's Juniper GPU is physically incapable of matching. AMD couldn't put Juniper on stilts, so the quick-and-easy alternative was to pay Barts a visit and shatter its tibias with a baseball bat. The fractures incapacitated four of Barts' SIMD arrays, leaving it with 800 ALUs and the ability to filter only 40 textures per clock. This latest example of GPU hobbling also destroyed half of Barts' rasterization capabilities, limiting it to pushing only 16 pixels/clock. As a result, the 6790 and the 5770 have identical ALU counts, and they can filter the same number of pixels and textures per clock.





> The Radeon HD 6790 has slightly weaker number-crunching capabilities than the 5770



Source for above




> Barts uses shaders of the same 5-way VLIW architecture as HD 5000series.


So, lesser SPs will pull down the 6790 somewhat in *direct* comparison to the 5770/6770!

Source for above




> AMD bases this on the fact that the 5770/6770 and the 6790 are so close in terms of specs; they want to frame the 6790 in terms of the 5770/6770, rather than in terms of the 6800 series.



Seems AMS themselves want it that way!!

Source for above


I guess I was only trying to decide which ones the best GPU for my friends config between 6770/6790! I still think its 6770 coz in my opinion a 150W TDP for 5 extra fps aint good enough!

Anyway, I might still be wrong, I might still be "putting misleading information withut understanding what you are writing"  - so plz do correct me if it is so...Me humbly accept me total noob!!


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## ico (Jun 10, 2011)

tbf, I'd rather get HD 6770/5770 than HD 6790. HD 6790 is made from chips which were unfit to be HD 6870. Moving above HD 6770, I'd get GTX 460 or preferably HD 6850. GTX 550 Ti is a failure.

HD 6790 gets the performance right, but not the power consumption. GTX 550 Ti gets both the performance and power consumption wrong.


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 10, 2011)

I agree... I do not speak from experience, but checking out too many performance comparison charts... But i still agree with ico about  the 5770/6770 and the GTX 460...


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## Mario (Jun 10, 2011)

exactly...6770 over 6790..newer architecture does not always mean better card!


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## Souro_Ray (Jun 10, 2011)

With hadda haddi competition, everyone makes mistakes... Nvidia has some crap cards, so does Radeon... I remember reading in PC Gamer about when the GTX280 came out: people were blown away by its performance and said that this card left Radeon in the dust.. A couple of months later, Radeon came out with the HD57xx and HD58xx cards and kicked ass and took names! This kind of competition is nice...


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## Piyush (Jun 11, 2011)

errrr.....what is the purpose of this thread?discussions?
i couldn't get it, thats why


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## Mario (Jun 11, 2011)

Piyush said:


> errrr.....what is the purpose of this thread?discussions?
> i couldn't get it, thats why



Hehehehe!! just read the first post!! was just deciding gpu/cpu/psu combo for a friend! have already decided...will post back here once bought!!


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## Skud (Jun 11, 2011)

Start from the beginning and read on...


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2011)

Listen, still my point holds...The choice of Graphics card varies from person to person and MArio, you have proffered HD 6770 over a HD 6790 due to your reasons like lower power consumption and prce. But you have written HD 6770 provides better performance than HD 6790 with AA and AF on which is misleading. And How can I know about your decision taking is decided by Paper and Pen specs?

I was just telling that HD 6790 is more powerful due to its new architecture and 256 bit memory bus...that's all.... I didn't ask you to purchase it...ultimately it is your choice.

And regarding your crippled architecture thing... HD 6790 is launched to compete against the GTS 550 and it has done it well and successfully in a lower price point, not to provide tou unbeatable performance in very lower price. What do you expect...HD 6790 should deliver more performance than GTX 460...then there is HD 6850 already.


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## Mario (Jun 11, 2011)

Cilus said:


> Listen, still my point holds...The choice of Graphics card varies from person to person and MArio, you have proffered HD 6770 over a HD 6790 due to your reasons like lower power consumption and prce. But you have written HD 6770 provides better performance than HD 6790 with AA and AF on which is misleading. And How can I know about your decision taking is decided by Paper and Pen specs?



My decision taking is not decided by Paper specs!! I already said that's where I made the mistake....Made that post after checking the theoretical comparison where surely if u check my link, the 6770 comes on top of the 6790....and then checked the Guru3D VGA charts!! I should have done it the other way round *before* making that post!!



Cilus said:


> I was just telling that HD 6790 is more powerful due to its new architecture and 256 bit memory bus...that's all.... I didn't ask you to purchase it...ultimately it is your choice.



No u didnt and I know its my choice ultimately..but we both now this, so why state it so bluntly??  



Cilus said:


> And regarding your crippled architecture thing... HD 6790 is launched to compete against the GTS 550 and it has done it well and successfully in a lower price point, not to provide tou unbeatable performance in very lower price. What do you expect...HD 6790 should deliver more performance than GTX 460...then there is HD 6850 already.



No I dont expect it to!! U have missed my point completely!!

1. First, I was comparing *only* the 6770 with the 6790!!

2. If u take these 2 gpus *only*, then I felt that in a scenario where Power consumption is a deciding factor, (*I felt*) that the 6770 is more bang for buck than the 6790!! coz the 3~5 extra fps 6790 gives is more becoz of its double mem bandwidth than due to its new architecture (coz the new architecture is so severely handicapped here in the case of the 6790)!! Again, dont get me wrong..I am not saying Barts lesser than Juniper!! But that holds only from the 68xx onwards!! Where Barts can show its full power!! For 6790 its only pro is its double mem bndwdth!! Not its new architecture...And if you did check the links I provided in my earlier post, you will see everywhere how close they are in performance! Now if u see perf of other 68xx cards, u will see they are *much* higher becoz in their case, the new architecture makes lot of difference!! So if someone wants to get Barts, he should start from 6850 onwards!! 6790 not worth it simply for Barts!! 6770 gives almost same perf as 6790 for lesser TDP...thats my prime point here!!

3. Finally, I have already accepted that I had read too much into the theoretical comparison - my mistake - no need to harp on it so much!!


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2011)

Ok buddy, I understood..lets stop it right now. When are you gonna make the purchase? By the way. I was checking that there are some Oced version of HD 6770 have also been released. Check if you can get hands on one of those.


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## Skud (Jun 11, 2011)

Cilus said:


> Listen, still my point holds...The choice of Graphics card varies from person to person and MArio, you have proffered HD 6770 over a HD 6790 due to your reasons like lower power consumption and prce. But you have written HD 6770 provides better performance than HD 6790 with AA and AF on which is misleading. And How can I know about your decision taking is decided by Paper and Pen specs?
> 
> I was just telling that HD 6790 is more powerful due to its new architecture and 256 bit memory bus...that's all.... I didn't ask you to purchase it...ultimately it is your choice.
> 
> And regarding your crippled architecture thing... HD 6790 is launched to compete against the GTS 550 and it has done it well and successfully in a lower price point, not to provide tou unbeatable performance in very lower price. What do you expect...HD 6790 should deliver more performance than GTX 460...then there is HD 6850 already.




The 6790 doesn't compete with 550Ti, it completely decimates it in almost every games. If you are tight on budget, this is a wonderful card for its price point.


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## ico (Jun 11, 2011)

Guess I should lock this thread. We have had enough discussion and the OP has made up his mind.


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