# Whats the difference between a PC & a MAC



## iMav (May 3, 2007)

well i was on the phone with a friend of mine and we were talking about the OS X and then he asked me a question as to what was the difference between a MAC & a PC ... didnt know much about it so decided to find out and here again is another post in which i will try to explain 2 concepts in lay man's terms ....

the article is divided into 5 parts:

1. The mac:- hardware & software
2. THe PC:- hardware & software

4. Boot Camp
5. MAC OS X vs Vista

*Note:* Sincere efforts have been made to not to make this a history lesson

*The difference between a Mac and PC can be summed in one sentence: "Macs and PC's operate and work differently."*

Well please remember this comparison before reading further coz this forms the heart of the pc and the mac ...

RISC:- Reduced Instruction Set Computers
CISC:- Complex Insruction Set Computers

The Mac - RISC
The PC - CISC

and there in lies the reason as to why the apple has been so rigid coz it uses a RISC processor, what makes RISC a rigid processor, well here is why:

*RISC*
It reduces the flexibility but increases the simplicity of the processor
Instruction size is fixed
Complexity in processor design
Limited no. of instructions
more degree of pipelining
Uses hard wired control unit which is is implemented using hardware so is rigid also debugging such a circuit is difficult, however since ther is no software it is faster
*CISC*
Memory Based instructions
advanced addressing modes
lesser degree of pipelining
large no. of instrucrtions
Microprogrammed control unit which is more flexible as compared tothe hardwired control unit as changes do not require hardware to be changed and it is more software based
*Here is how the 2 differ:*

*Part 1: The Mac:-*

The beauty, well i will admit i was awestruck when i first saw a Mac looooong ago at a showroom and decided im gonna buy it 1 day (that dream still lives on), and the only thing against it was it needed me to buy the mac which means it wudnt work on traditional hardware and also until Boot Camp & Intel on a mac came along was that it used only Mac OS that is indigenously developed and marketed by apple. So whats the technical reason as to why the apple Mac wont natively support the most commonly used OS - windows.

Mac is short for Macintosh and refers to any computer produced by Apple Computer. Macs are traditionally classified separately from PCs because they are based on the *PowerPC architecture* from Apple/IBM/Motorola

*1. Power PC Architecture*

PowerPC is a RISC microprocessor architecture created by the 1991 Apple–IBM–Motorola alliance, known as *AIM* alliance, for *A*pple, *I*BM, *M*otorola). Originally intended for personal computers. Now being a RISC Processor it inherits almost all draw backs of a RISC processor (note daily advancement in technology has found ways to counter the problems)

*2. The OS*

The second main difference between the PC and the MAC is the Operating System used on them, no guesses MAC uses MAC OS* and if u ask any MAC user he will consider u nothing less than a loser for using Windows (they automatically become Apple Salesman the momnet they buy their MACs)

now coming to the MAC OS ...
the leopard which is going to be its latest release is said to be 10 times ahead of vista ... might be the case only time will tell, however:

The Mac OS can be divided into two families of operating systems:

    * "Classic" Mac OS, the system which shipped with the first Macintosh in 1984 and its descendants, culminating with Mac OS 9.
    * The newer Mac OS X (the "X" refers to the Roman numeral, ten). Mac OS X incorporates elements of OpenStep (thus also BSD Unix and Mach) and Mac OS 9. Its low-level BSD-based foundation, Darwin, is free software/open source software.

BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution):
BSD is one of several branches of Unix operating systems. BSD was widely identified with the versions of Unix available for workstation-class systems.

XNU: The Kernel
 The Mac OS X kernel is called XNU. It can be viewed as consisting of the following components:
*Mach:*
Mach is part of the underlying technology of Mac OS X. It is a UNIX technology developed at Carnegie-Mellon University in the late 1980s and 1990s. It is a robust, "open source" operating system, which is used to provide memory and task implementation services. Darwin uses Mach 3.0. Mach provides memory management, memory protection, process scheduling and interprocess communication services.

*FreeBSD:* 
XNU's BSD component uses FreeBSD as the primary reference codebase (although some code might be traced to other BSDs). Darwin 7.x (Mac OS X 10.3.x) uses FreeBSD 5.x. As mentioned before, BSD runs not as an external (or user-level) server, but is part of the kernel itself. Some aspects that BSD is responsible for include:

    * process model
    * user ids, permissions, basic security policies
    * POSIX API, BSD style system calls
    * TCP/IP stack, BSD sockets, firewall
    * VFS and filesystems
    * System V IPC
    * crypto framework
    * various synchronization mechanisms

*I/O Kit:*
I/O Kit, the object-oriented device driver framework of the XNU kernel is radically different from that on traditional systems.
I/O Kit uses a restricted subset of C++ (based on Embedded C++) as its programming language. This system is implemented by the libkern library. Features of C++ that are not allowed in this subset include:

    * exceptions
    * multiple inheritance
    * templates
    * RTTI (run-time type information), although I/O Kit has its own run-time typing system

*Platform Expert:*
The Platform Expert is an object (one can think of it as a driver) that knows the type of platform that the system is running on. I/O Kit registers a nub for the Platform Expert. This nub then loads the correct platform specific driver, which further discovers the buses present on the system, registering a nub for each bus found. The I/O Kit loads a matching driver for each bus nub, which discovers the devices connected to the bus, and so on. Thus, the Platform Expert is responsible for actions such as:

    * Building the device tree 
    * Parse certain boot arguments
    * Identify the machine (including processor and bus clock speeds)
    * Initialize a "user interface" to be used in case of kernel panics

*libkern and libsa:*
As described earlier, the I/O Kit uses a restricted subset of C++. This system, implemented by libkern, provides features such as:

    * Dynamic object allocation, construction, destruction (including data structures such as Arrays, Booleans, Dictionaries, ...)
    * Certain atomic operations, miscellaneous functions (bcmp(), memcmp(), strlen(), ...)
    * Provisions for tracking the number of current instances for each class
    * Ways to avoid the "Fragile Base Class Problem"

libsa provides functions for miscellaneous purposes: binary searching, symbol remangling (used for gcc 2.95 to 3.3, for example), dgraphs, catalogs, kernel extension management, sorting, patching vtables, etc.
For more info: *Click Here*

--------- *End Of Part 1* ---------

*Part 2: The PC:-*

We all know the humble PC ... first developed by IBM and now by many, the PC is generally based on the CISC processor which mean it is more software oriented and more flexible and that is why so many different hardware designers come up with so many dofferent types of hardwares.

*The OS:*
Well the PC can run both Windows and Linux without hiccups (the choise is urs)

Most commonly used OS is windows for it was able to come out with a GUI for the normal consumer before its competitors Apple and OS/2 and hence is owns almost the entire PC market ... though some sections of the computer fraternity question its security, but what the hell its numero uno.

Inside the Windows Vista Kernel
At a Glance:

*Thread priority and scheduling*

* File-based symbolic links:*
The Windows Vista I/O-related changes include file-based symbolic links, more efficient I/O completion processing, comprehensive support for I/O cancellation, and prioritized I/O.
  A file system feature many have considered missing from NTFS, the symbolic file link (or as it's called in UNIX, the soft link) finally arrives in Windows Vista. The Windows 2000 version of NTFS introduced symbolic directory links, called directory junctions, which allow you to create a directory that points at a different directory, but until the Windows Vista version, NTFS has only supported hard links for files.

* Canceling I/O operations:*
While Windows has always supported prioritization of CPU usage, it hasn't included the concept of I/O priority. Without I/O priority, background activities like search indexing, virus scanning, and disk defragmenting can severely impact the responsiveness of foreground operations. A user launching an app or opening a document while another process is performing disk I/O, for example, experiences delays as the foreground task waits for disk access. The same interference also affects the streaming playback of multimedia content like songs from a hard disk.

and a host of other features which if i typed would be called as promoting Vista so wont do that

--------- *End Of Part 2* ---------

*Part 4: Boot Camp:-*

Well this is a little app from Apple which enables u to run Windows OS on a MAC, but the catch is u can only run it on an Intel MAC ... (remmber RISC,CISC) ... well Apple decided to switch to Intel for its MACs and for good reason, so it means that u can dual boot into MAC OS X and VIsta or XP on a beautiful mac

--------- *End Of Part 4* ---------

*Part 5: MAC OS X vs Vista:-
*
Well for this i would request arya and gx as guest editors

 --------- *End Of Part 5* ---------

*Heres another piece of info: wondered why Virtual PC like applications work on windows and not on non-intel macs isbecause PCs are CISC based which use micr-programmed control unit in which 1 processor can be made to execute programs of another processor by simply loading its emulator in the control memory*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compiled & Edited by: mAV3
Source: www

towards the end i got a liitle lethargic and just abruptly finished it i shall edit it later when i get time

PS: RISC & CISC happen to be in the engg syllabus of extc in the third year and i can gurantee u that the number of techers knowing that RISC & CISC form the core of difference between mac and pc would be next to nill ...


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## hemant_mathur (May 3, 2007)

Real good info. Thanx


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## Pathik (May 3, 2007)

good one mav..


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## kalpik (May 3, 2007)

Hmm.. I thought even the PCs are based on the RISC architecture! Please someone confirm that, i may be wrong 

Edit: OK, so the PC is a combination of RISC and CISC, but its RISC at the core. *www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/235/4


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## Goten (May 3, 2007)

Gud one.

Peace~~~!


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## abhi.eternal (May 3, 2007)

good...


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## sam_1710 (May 3, 2007)

wow... thanks for the info!! ..


> if u ask any MAC user he will consider u nothing less than a loser for using Windows (they automatically become Apple Salesman the momnet they buy their MACs)


lets see how arya reacts to this...


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Hmm.. I thought even the PCs are based on the RISC architecture! Please someone confirm that, i may be wrong
> 
> Edit: OK, so the PC is a combination of RISC and CISC, but its RISC at the core.


 well the risc & cisc difference is basically the core difference between the 2 and the reason as to my understanding why the mac has been so rigid and as in technology u always take the best of 2 worlds .... so the goods of risc have been added to the cisc and then u have intel's pentium 6 architecture which forms the heart of the:

    * Celeron (Pentium II/III Derivative)
    * Celeron M (Banias/Dothan Derivative)
    * Pentium Pro
    * Pentium II
    * Pentium II Xeon
    * Pentium III
    * Pentium III Xeon
    * Pentium M
    * Intel Core


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## Shalu_Sharma (May 3, 2007)

The only difference I find is MAC is eye candy and damn easy, but Winows is buggy. Even Vista is buggy.


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

hello ma'am i would request u to please dont start that here ... a mac vs windows well u will find it in every section ....

@kalpik:

In 1991, the PowerPC was just one facet of a larger alliance between these three companies. On the other side was the growing dominance of Microsoft and Windows in personal computing, and of Intel processors. At the time, most of the personal computer industry was shipping systems based on the Intel 80386 and 80486 chips, which had a CISC architecture, and development of the Pentium processor was well underway. The PowerPC chip was one of several joint ventures involving the three, in their efforts to counter the growing Microsoft-Intel dominance of personal computing.

Courtesy WIkipedia ... so i guess the initial 1s were more CISC based and with time the good of RISC was added to the CISC .... and that was the pentium 6 architecture which i posted above


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## gxsaurav (May 3, 2007)

Nice article mav3, repped u.

Ms. Shalu, I would like to advice you from refraining from such comments. Yup Vista is buggy, but bugs are in all the operating systems.


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## s18000rpm (May 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nice article mav3, *repped u.*
> 
> Ms. Shalu, I would like to advice you from refraining from such comments. Yup Vista is buggy, but bugs are in all the operating systems.


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

well i consider an appreciative reply as a rep


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## Third Eye (May 3, 2007)

@gxsaurav: How did u rep ? 

Btw good article mav3


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## s18000rpm (May 3, 2007)

Tech Genius said:
			
		

> @gxsaurav: How did u rep ?
> 
> Btw good article mav3


 just as you did, like that^ .


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## gxsaurav (May 3, 2007)

mav3 said:
			
		

> well i consider an *appreciative reply* as a rep



There you go.


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## Cool G5 (May 3, 2007)

Very good.Keep up the good work.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 3, 2007)

but Mac's now use Intel processors so both r virtually same now


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

almost yes ....

and to add to that i will say that now mac's exclusivity lies only its in pricing ... there was a time when the mac was prferred by multimedia developers coz of the fact tht many good appz for multimedia developing were available onnly on the mac but tht has all changed ... and the mac is now slowly becoming nothing more than a PC ...


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## nepcker (May 3, 2007)

Simplicity vs. Complexity: That's the fundamental difference between a Mac and a PC.

(Where the Mac stands for simplicity, of course)


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## azaad_shri75 (May 3, 2007)

great info.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 3, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Simplicity vs. Complexity: That's the fundamental difference between a Mac and a PC.
> 
> (Where the Mac stands for simplicity, of course)



can't say that dude , i tried mac n i had to search on da net how to rename a file 

there was no rename option in right-click menu , now that's simplicity huh


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

no wonder y arya in another post said not to try OS X


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## gxsaurav (May 3, 2007)

That thread got closed for no reason. We were not telling anyone how to access MacOS X on PC, what we were telling is how is the user experience.

We will start a new thread in a few days, with only info about the disection of MacOS X.

@ Zeeshan

Welcome to world of Mac, where you have to get used to press strange key shortcuts .


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## blueshift (May 3, 2007)

Nice info mav3.

finally, is mac os based on linux?


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## iMav (May 3, 2007)

yes its based on unix ...


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## Pathik (May 3, 2007)

Free bsd to be more specific.


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## anandk (May 3, 2007)

good info ! nice effort !! great thread !!!
read every word ... well almost  every word.


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## Tapomay (May 4, 2007)

Great work friend. Very informative post. Thanks.


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

@ all those who appreciated my efforts ... this is certainly not the last coming from me ... i have a few more topics in head .... thanx again for ur appreciation


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## Pathik (May 4, 2007)

^^ if thats the case then u better prepare a award receiving speech..


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

thank you pathiks ... il keep that in mind ... iv seen filmfare a couple of times


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 4, 2007)

i'm starting to miss Arya n Nepcker in this thread , hey guys we need you here


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## freebird (May 4, 2007)

nice to see forums windows fanatics running  a MAc thread!!!


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## gxsaurav (May 4, 2007)

The Mac is a good OS, the problem lies with Macboys & Apple's marketing philosophy which believes that everyone non-Apple is stupid.

Mac is a PC inside, & if the OS is soooo better then why not let everyone use it. Didn't they used to make fun of PC for running Windows, when now they are advertisign Mac as "Get a Mac, cos you can run Microsoft Windows & Office on it" 

Zeeshan, should we start a new thread regarding the usability of MacOS X? without any "How to install" part.


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

see what i mean ... these linux supporters will gate crash anything remotely related to windows and well we windows "fanatics" just wanna show whats the difference between the 2 coz we have always been rubbed by a comment that use it and then comment so well here we are giving an un-biased review of whats the difference betwen the mac, pc and what zeeshan and gx are doing is to give u a proper un-biased review of what the MAC OS X is all about


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> The Mac is a good OS, the problem lies with Macboys & Apple's marketing philosophy which believes that everyone non-Apple is stupid.
> 
> Mac is a PC inside, & if the OS is soooo better then why not let everyone use it. Didn't they used to make fun of PC for running Windows, when now they are advertisign Mac as "Get a Mac, cos you can run Microsoft Windows & Office on it"


Yeah if u ever see Mac ad's they make a PC user seem like a Jerk , now that hurts , other than that i have no grudge with Mac . this shows how much afraid they r of PC's Market Dominance 


			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Zeeshan, should we start a new thread regarding the usability of MacOS X? without any "How to install" part.


Maybe we can , also our earlier thread *IS Not Illegal* under the *DMCA*.

According to the wikipedia





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a controversial United States copyright law. The act criminalizes production and dissemination of technology that can circumvent measures taken to protect copyright, not merely infringement of copyright itself, and heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet.


And in the words of OSX86 Project Site





			
				OSX86 Site said:
			
		

> Our site is fully compliant with the DMCA. This site intends only to provide a forum for those interested in running OS X on Intel hardware. Anyone engaged in an active DMCA violation will be banned. For more information, review our Disclaimer here.
> If you are either a lawyer or an Apple representative and have any concerns, feel free to contact us regarding any changes you feel necessary.


so if the OSX86 site is Perfectly legal then so is our thread .


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## nepcker (May 4, 2007)

> can't say that dude , i tried mac n i had to search on da net how to rename a file
> 
> there was no rename option in right-click menu , now that's simplicity huh


The rename process is, I agree, a little less obvious. You should use Mac help, launch it from the Help menu and search for “rename” or something.

Or.... you can just select the icon (click once) and then hit the Return (Enter) key.


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> The rename process is, I agree, *a little less obvious*


 good choice of words ...


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 4, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> The rename process is, I agree, a little less obvious. You should use Mac help, launch it from the Help menu and search for “rename” or something.
> 
> Or.... you can just select the icon (click once) and then hit the Return (Enter) key.



yeah i figured that out from the help section but seriously they should put rename in the context menu .

 also i can't seem to cut files , there'e only the option of Copy n Paste in the edit meny , Cut is disabled for all file types that i've tried , also hitting delete key doesn't send file to trash , what r the corresponding keys for these tasks in OS X ?


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

*llc.ucdavis.edu/10_iMac_things.htm

zeeshan i think this link might help .... was originally a part of the article but lost the link found it now ... might help .... the lower half differentiates the keys between windows and mac


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## nepcker (May 4, 2007)

> also i can't seem to cut files , there'e only the option of Copy n Paste in the edit meny , Cut is disabled for all file types that i've tried


 Here are the shortcuts you need to know:
Copy - Command + c
Cut - Command + x
Paste - Command + v

You can also replace the Command key with the Apple key.



> also hitting delete key doesn't send file to trash , what r the corresponding keys for these tasks in OS X


 Use Command-Delete

For more keyboard shortcuts, please visit *docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459



> *llc.ucdavis.edu/10_iMac_things.htm


This is an outdated article, I think it's for Mac OS 9, while current is Mac OS X. This is the article to be read.


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

^^ thanx for the update


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## aryayush (May 4, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> yeah i figured that out from the help section but seriously they should put rename in the context menu .
> 
> also i can't seem to cut files , there'e only the option of Copy n Paste in the edit meny , Cut is disabled for all file types that i've tried , also hitting delete key doesn't send file to trash , what r the corresponding keys for these tasks in OS X ?


There is no 'Cut' option in the Finder. It is an extremely stupid glitch. Absolutely ridiculous. The 'Command + X' option does not perform the 'Cut' action as on Windows. The only way to move a file from one folder to another on Mac OS X is to drag it from its position and drop it onto another.

As for the rename thing, please do not be offended by it but that was a really dull statement. Only after you mentioned it did I realise that the context menu in the Finder does not have the 'Rename' option. I never needed it. Why should I right-click when I can simply hit 'Return'! Yes, it is a different shortcut than on Windows (because Microsoft decided to change some of the shortcuts when they copied everything from the Mac OS) but how does that make it a flaw in Mac OS X itself?



			
				blueshift said:
			
		

> finally, is mac os based on linux?


Yes, it is. Steve Jobs himself said that "it is very Linux-like". It has a lot of Apple's core technologies though that are proprietary and therefore, missing on Linux and it has the best user interface among operating systems. 



			
				mAV3 said:
			
		

> what zeeshan and gx are doing is to give u a proper un-biased review of what the MAC OS X is all about


I have to say, mAV3, that you make some really funny comments sometimes that I laugh at even though they are against me or my thinking. This statement is funny too, but this is funny because of its blatant stupidity. And this is not an insult in any way. If you were referring to the first post in that thread about running Mac OS X on a PC, if that post was an "un-biased" review of Mac OS X -  let me take a break to let out the laughter - then you seriously need to look up the meaning of the word again. You can't honestly believe that _any_ post about Apple made by the guy you referred to has ever been objectively written.

I did see this thread earlier but did not want to get involved. Only today did I realise that I was actually being missed.


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## nepcker (May 4, 2007)

*creativebits.org/files/shortcuts.jpg
_Image credits: *creativebits.org/

_ Here are some shortcuts missed at Apple's Support Page:

Safari shortcuts:
file:///Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/Shortcuts.html

Command-Control-D gets the definition of the word under the mouse. Works on any cocoa application

There are a few more commands that are often helpful for speedily typing text. These work in any standard Mac OS X text field.
Control-F: move to the right (i.e. forward)
Control-B: move to the left (i.e. backward)
Control-N: move to the next line
Control-P: move to the previous line
Control-D: delete the next character
Control-K: delete the rest of the line
Control-Y: paste the the last line deleted with Control-K

*davespicks.com/writing/programming/mackeys.html is a page worth visiting.



> The 'Command + X' option does not perform the 'Cut' action as on Windows.


 Here are a few notes:
1. The Windows does not have the Command key, at least I've never seen it.
2. It works like the Windows shortcut when you need to cut *text*. I don't know whether or not it works for files too, since I just do drag-n-drop, but it works for other apps.


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## aryayush (May 4, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Here are a few notes:
> 1. The Windows does not have the Command key, at least I've never seen it.


Of course you haven't. Windows is an operating system, a software product. It does not have any keys at all (unless you are talking about the Registry keys)!



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> 2. It works like the Windows shortcut when you need to cut *text*. I don't know whether or not it works for files too, since I just do drag-n-drop, but it works for other apps.


Yes, it works for text but not for files, which is why I said that it does not work in the Finder.


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## nepcker (May 4, 2007)

> Of course you haven't. Windows is an operating system, a software product. It does not have any keys at all (unless you are talking about the Registry keys)!


I meant I haven't seen the Command key on a Windows PC.


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## aryayush (May 4, 2007)

Well, you surely knew that when I said 'Command + X' and referred to its equivalent command on Windows, I was referring to 'Ctrl + X'.


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## nepcker (May 4, 2007)

Of course I know it. I just like to refer them as their real names.


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## gxsaurav (May 4, 2007)

Mr. Arya, welcome back. We missed you.



> Why should I right-click when I can simply hit 'Return'!


Umm..."Return" = Execute = Enter. Atleast keyboard shortcuts should be substituted with Menus which they are not.



> (because Microsoft decided to change some of the shortcuts when they copied everything from the Mac OS)


Here we go again, Microsoft ne to kuch kiya hai nahi, Windows & Office apne aap ban gaya.



> best user interface among operating systems.


Just look at the dock & it's annoyence. What you use most frequently is there, but what u use less frequently isn't there & there is no option for a 2ndry Menu for such things.



> any way. If you were referring to the first post in that thread about running Mac OS X on a PC, if that post was an "un-biased" review of Mac OS X -  let me take a break to let out the laughter - then you seriously need to look up the meaning of the word again. You can't honestly believe that _any_ post about Apple made by the guy you referred to has ever been objectively written.


Just like you gave your verdict of Vista without even using it. , boys.... I posted about the flaws of the user interface which you have been touting a lot from day 1.


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## iMav (May 4, 2007)

@arya

well i am hopeful that when gx and zeeshan dissect the MAC OS X it will show the good, bad and ugly side of it .... if the bad and ugly side makes u uneasy then well cant help it ..... i got the same response when i reviewed the ipod the day ibought it ... the truth is bitter sometimes arya


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## blueshift (May 4, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Yes, it is. It has a lot of Apple's core technologies though that are proprietary and therefore, missing on Linux and it has the best user interface among operating systems.


Now I know why the Linux fanboys are with the Macs too. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Here we go again, Microsoft ne to kuch kiya hai nahi, Windows & Office apne aap ban gaya.
> Just look at the dock & it's annoyence. What you use most frequently is there, but what u use less frequently isn't there & there is no option for a 2ndry Menu for such things.


lol..
I agree with that. Though the dock looks cool but it can be emulated in Windows too. But I think there must be some setting in Mac to get 'Start' like menu in Win...or is there not??



btw, here is a nice article to emulate MacOS on PC. Link


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## gxsaurav (May 4, 2007)

mAV3 said:
			
		

> if the bad and ugly side makes u uneasy then well cant help it ..... i got the same response when i reviewed the ipod the day ibought it ... the truth is bitter sometimes arya


Don't you think he is already feeling uneasy that now we have full access to MacOS X & now we can show to the forum where it prevails & where it lacks.. 



> But I think there must be some setting in Mac to get 'Start' like menu in Win...or is there not??


Nope, there is no menu. If there are many icons then the dock stretches & icon size on dock shrinks. 

Windows do not full screen.

Hey, in that thread did I said anything wrong about Mac arya? 

Can you resize the Windows from anyside?

Can u remove Mail.app by draging it to trash?

Can you change the color scheme like we can in Windows from ages?

Docked Windows?


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## blueshift (May 4, 2007)

comeon gx, lets not make this a Mac v/s Win again. 
please.


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## gxsaurav (May 4, 2007)

U said it blueshift.


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

blueshift said:
			
		

> I agree with that. Though the dock looks cool but it can be emulated in Windows too. But I think there must be some setting in Mac to get 'Start' like menu in Win...or is there not??


Listen, I've said this time and again and I'm warning you again now: if your source for knowing anything about Mac OS X is gx_saurav, then it is equivalent to asking a beggar the weight of a gold coin. Both of them have no freaking clue about the object in question. (And I am absolutely _not_ comparing gx_saurav to a beggar here. It is the only suitable analogy I could think of. I am not one to fall to that level.)

The dock is a great tool and is very handy for launching your most commonly used programs. Why would you want it to emulate the 'Start' menu from Windows? The only thing I ever used that menu was for launching programs and the Control Panel. Both can be done with the dock. You can even drag any folder onto the dock and right clicking on it will give show you all the contents of the folder in a menu. So, if you want to have all your applications in the dock without actually making it very small, you can drag the Applications folder onto it. Better still, you can use Spotlight or QuickSilver to launch any applications in just a few keystrokes, which is the way I do it and is the most convenient one.

You can drag any file onto any application icon in the dock to make that application open that file. Try doing that in Windows. gx_saurav was complaining that the dock gets really small when you load a lot of applications onto it. Well, in any case, it is always larger than the size of the icons in Windows' quick launch bar. When you are using a torrent client, the dock icon is badged with the upload and download speeds, a system monitor application's dock icon can show graphs, the mail icon can notify you of new email, etc. Try doing any of that on Windows.

I could literally list two hundred small and big things in Mac OS X that are not there in Windows Vista that really make the operating system more fun to use. Don't ask me to do that, however. I won't. It is not my job to educate people to try out a better platform. But I do try to banish misconceptions such as these that are spread by a few nutters.


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## gxsaurav (May 5, 2007)

> And I am absolutely _not_ comparing gx_saurav to a beggar here. It is the only suitable analogy I could think of. I am not one to fall to that level.)



Personal attack #1

& yeah, gareeb student hun beta , I don't have money to buy a 1.5 lakh laptop that too when it is not my own earned money. Thats why I did it on my existing PC.



> You can drag any file onto any application icon in the dock to make that application open that file. Try doing that in Windows.



Sure sure, we are doing it since Windows 2000. Drag a word file (example) to Winzip shortcut icon or application exe (example) & see what happens 

Or better yet, drag a mp3 to WMP shortcut & see what happens 


> When you are using a torrent client, the dock icon is badged with the upload and download speeds, a system monitor application's dock icon can show graphs, the mail icon can notify you of new email, etc. Try doing any of that on Windows.



umm, Sidebar, system tray icons, widgets & desktop x gadgets, does that rings a bell



> But I do try to banish misconceptions such as these that are spread by a few nutters.



Personal attack #2


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Personal attack #1
> 
> & yeah, gareeb student hun beta , I don't have money to buy a 1.5 lakh laptop that too when it is not my own earned money. Thats why I did it on my existing PC.


Though I already mentioned it once, I am saying it again. I genuinely did not wish to draw any parallels through that statement. I had written the whole post and only when I was about to press the 'Submit'  button did I realise that it might be interpreted in a manner that I hadn't intended it to. If you still wish to assume (and announce) that I was intentionally flaming you, be my guest!


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## gxsaurav (May 5, 2007)

blueshift said:
			
		

> comeon gx, lets not make this a Mac v/s Win again.
> please.





			
				GX said:
			
		

> U said it blueshift.



:-" just trying to avoid any thing here.


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## iMav (May 5, 2007)

gx i am eagerly waiting fo the review ...


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

I'm not.


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## iMav (May 5, 2007)

o! u will be there wen it will be typed ....


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## gxsaurav (May 5, 2007)

lolz...No bady asked his help here. Nobady asked him to poke his nose cos MacOS X is running on PC, & nobody is waiting for him to read it....wonder why he is so much tensed & bothered. :-"

mav3

Tomorrow is zeeshan's exam, we might get time on sunday if he returns on time.

And you are right, even when he is not waiting for, he will post here. Donno what grudge he got against Macs, opps i mean PCs . Arya, do us a favor & plz do not post in this thread. The purpose of this thread is over, to show the difference between PC & Mac (hardware & software wise)


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 5, 2007)

well Arya n Nepcker there certainly is A Windows(Win) key is MOST(99%) of PC keyboard these days .

also the equivalent of command key in Mac OS X in PC keyboard is not Control but Win key  , also man could u help me decipher the symbols displayed for shortcuts i can't seem to understand which symbol understands for which key ?

i got the hang of *www.danrodney.com/mac/img/menusym-command.gif which stood for win key , can't get nything else


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## gxsaurav (May 5, 2007)

welcome back zeeshan, let the disection begin.


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> well Arya n Nepcker there certainly is A Windows(Win) key is MOST(99%) of PC keyboard these days .
> 
> also the equivalent of command key in Mac OS X in PC keyboard is not Control but Win key  , also man could u help me decipher the symbols displayed for shortcuts i can't seem to understand which symbol understands for which key ?
> 
> i got the hang of *www.danrodney.com/mac/img/menusym-command.gif which stood for win key , can't get nything else


I hope you guys can see the difference between a biased person and one who isn't. If it was gx_saurav posting this, he would have said something to the effect of "what crap is macos! win key is called command and all have stupid sybmol... apple not do anything rite"

Anyway, Zeeshan - the direct equivalent of the Command key is indeed the Windows key according to the placement of the keys on keyboards. But in terms of usage, the Ctrl key on normal keyboards performs most of the functions of the Command key on Apple keyboards. For example, 'Command + C' is copy, 'Command + V' is paste, 'Command + N' is new, 'Command + S' is save, etc. 
Therefore, in your case, you have to use Windows key for most of the shortcuts in Mac OS X instead of the Ctrl key. You'll find this very irritating if you keep switching between the two operating systems, I guess. You can use some keyboard re-mapping utility if you wish to.

As for the symbols, please visit this page:
Don Rodney - Mac OS X Keyboard Shortcuts
The first item on the page is a guide to the Mac's menu symbols.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Anyway, Zeeshan - the direct equivalent of the Command key is indeed the Windows key according to the placement of the keys on keyboards. But in terms of usage, the Ctrl key on normal keyboards performs most of the functions of the Command key on Apple keyboards. For example, 'Command + C' is copy, 'Command + V' is paste, 'Command + N' is new, 'Command + S' is save, etc.
> Therefore, in your case, you have to use Windows key for most of the shortcuts in Mac OS X instead of the Ctrl key. You'll find this very irritating if you keep switching between the two operating systems, I guess. You can use some keyboard re-mapping utility if you wish to.
> 
> As for the symbols, please visit this page:
> ...



ahh , now that's what i really needed , but there's one more prob in Mac help system it's completely online , if they made it offline or still even made a package available for download(i dunno if it's available) then it would be much easier to browse coz no matter how much fast internet u have lags r still irritating


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

It is not online.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> It is not online.



well i found out wat's da prob , when user is online it uses latest online doc which i thought that the help was completely online 

also , i solved problem of Ctrl , Command key in Mac i changed key modifier settings in Mac so now Control functions as command n command as control , thus now i can use Ctrl-C , Ctrl-V n all other shortucts in Mac too ,


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## iMav (May 5, 2007)

ohk arya 1 question .. iv seen mac keyboards with usb conx can they work on normal pc with mac on it?


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## aryayush (May 5, 2007)

I have my doubts. Never tried that out.

But I think they do. 

I'll check it out...


@Zeeshan Quireshi, was the option there is the OS itself?


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## gxsaurav (May 5, 2007)

> ohk arya 1 question .. iv seen mac keyboards with usb conx can they work on normal pc with mac on it?



They are normal USB Keyboard so they will work. Option key switches to alt & Command key switches to Win key.

In case you have some key mapping problem, you can use any keyboard modifier application to make changes to the key layout.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 6, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> @Zeeshan Quireshi, was the option there is the OS itself?



yeah in keyboard prefeernces under modifier keys , there i interchanged functions of ctrl and command key 

Also i just tried out Expose , man it's great , i'll post a video of it soon


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## aryayush (May 6, 2007)

WOW! Will this damn operating system never stop amazing me! There is a limit to how many functions you can build directly into the operating system. I'm surprised the third party market for the Mac is flourishing at such a rate given the number of features Apple has bundled by default. Cool!


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 6, 2007)

Well ARyayush i tried XCode n i must say it's not even close to what you can achieve from Visual Studio , really .

here r my 2 Cents on some XCode glitches :

1. It does not have code completion in the real sense , it only completes names of variables YOU have defined in ur program , it does not complete Standard or Custom Function names , inbuilt functions , header files , namespaces , etc , etc .

2. it's build time is very slow(expected ass GCC is considered one of the slowest compilers)

i'll give a review as soon as i finish reading teh inro in da manual n spend some  time with it so that i get used to it n the review's a corect one .


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## gxsaurav (May 6, 2007)

Lolz...those must be greek to him zeeshan. Programming in XCode....


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## ravi_9793 (May 6, 2007)

> if u ask any MAC user he will consider u nothing less than a loser for using Windows (they automatically become Apple Salesman the momnet they buy their MACs)



The dead true ..........LOL


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## aryayush (May 6, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Well ARyayush i tried XCode n i must say it's not even close to what you can achieve from Visual Studio , really .
> 
> here r my 2 Cents on some XCode glitches :
> 
> ...


I have no experience using XCode. I am really good at programming but it's been a long time since I wrote my last line of code. 

But I do know that most Mac programs look and work exceptionally well, much better than their Windows counterparts. Adobe Creative Suite 3 is the most recent example. And every cross-platform developer I know seems to believe that XCode is better for programming.

Your mileage may vary, of course.


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## gxsaurav (May 6, 2007)

> But I do know that most Mac programs look and work exceptionally well, much better than their Windows counterparts. Adobe Creative Suite 3 is the most recent example. And every cross-platform developer I know seems to believe that XCode is better for programming.



With XCode you can make application only for MacOS X

If you want to make an application for MacOS, no matter what language you use, you will need to make it in XCode if the language is supported, you do not have any other choice.

Obviously if there is only one API, applications will be good just like those for a Gaming console. a 200 MHz GPU runs graphics of Geforce 6 class in PS2.

.net on the other hand supports many langauges & can cross compile for any platform, be it X86 or PowerPC.

So, which one seems better? Wise man can decide.


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## nepcker (May 6, 2007)

> well Arya n Nepcker there certainly is A Windows(Win) key is MOST(99%) of PC keyboard these days .


Yes, there is. When Apple had introduced a Mac-only key on macs. Microsoft said "Macs should not have such a key". Guess what they did ten years later -- they added the Windows key to Windows-brand keyboards.



> 1. It does not have code completion in the real sense , it only completes names of variables YOU have defined in ur program , it does not complete Standard or Custom Function names , inbuilt functions , header files , namespaces , etc , etc .


Try not keeping so many windows open, or change the preferences to not remember open windows. It could be one large complex file that taking a long time to render. Try deleting _~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Xcode.plist_. This might certainly help. If you have some complaints on XCode, use the following e-mail address to contact Apple: xcode-feedback@group.apple.com 



> 2. it's build time is very slow(expected ass GCC is considered one of the slowest compilers)


Check out *lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2005/Jul/msg00711.html
This might help.

If you have any complaints, just send a e-mail to Apple. They'll usually reply you back.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 6, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Try not keeping so many windows open, or change the preferences to not remember open windows. It could be one large complex file that taking a long time to render. Try deleting _~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Xcode.plist_. This might certainly help.


nah i had NOLY 1 window open and that too with just 10 lines of code for a test drive , if in visual studio you type 
	
	



```
cin.
```
then after the dot it shows you a whole list of identifiers starting with that name or contained in that class or namespace along with their parameters and a short deccription , etc but in XCode there's no such service , Code Completion is a boon for developers you can't expect them to learn the name,use and syntex of each and every function do you ? 





			
				MSDN said:
			
		

> There are more than 400,000 Classes in the .NET framework 2.0 and on average each class contains 20 members


 now that's a hell lot of names to remember 



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Adobe Creative Suite 3 is the most recent example. And every cross-platform developer I know seems to believe that XCode is better for programming.


  nopes , Adobe uses *Qt* , code written for Qt in C++ is cross compilable , so they develop their apps in Visual Studio using the Qt framework n then they can compile the *Exact* same code for Mac , Linux etc too . Qt by default includes support for Mac, Linux n Windows n u can add support for mobile n other platforms .


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## aryayush (May 6, 2007)

All the applications that comprise Adobe Creative Suite 3 are native Cocoa applications and the only way to write a native Cocoa application is to use XCode. It is not only faster but has a slightly more refined user interface (minimalist) in the Mac version.

I can give you hundreds of more examples if you want. Google Desktop is another one.


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## gxsaurav (May 6, 2007)

> All the applications that comprise Adobe Creative Suite 3 are native Cocoa applications and the only way to write a native Cocoa application is to use XCode. It is not only faster but has a slightly more refined user interface (minimalist) in the Mac version.



Umm...didn't you know QT is platform indipendent. You don't make a platform specific button in QT, but you can do that in .net.

Like in Qt you can write "button.maximize" (thats not the exect code, just an example), to draw a maximize button on a Window. Now depending on which platform it is running Qt will call the maximize button "bitmap" from the OS & it is drawn on screen.

Photoshop CS3 isn't native cocoa application, just that the Qt framework is calling for Mac specific buttons etc. Just like .net application can call for Windows specific UI etc with .net 2005 & above.

Mac UI is tooo 2001-ish, gray & white who likes that now?


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## nepcker (May 7, 2007)

Even MS uses XCode for writing Mac applications. Adobe does it too.

And you can also write C++, Java, etc. codes with XCode.


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## gxsaurav (May 7, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Even MS uses XCode for writing Mac applications. Adobe does it too.
> 
> And you can also write C++, Java, etc. codes with XCode.



How do you know MS uses XCode? do u work for them?

If you want to make an application native to MacOS X your ownly choice is XCode.

If you want to make an app for other OS such as Windows or Linux, you can chose from so many languages & platforms (.net, Apolo, DirectX, opengl, Delphi, JAVA)


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## nepcker (May 7, 2007)

> How do you know MS uses XCode? do u work for them?


Simple! I read it on a news story. Read it here: *apcmag.com/5780/office_2008_for_mac_hits_beta_shows_slick_ui_and_draws_on_escher
Excerpts: "They are switching over to XCode to support Intel processors."



> If you want to make an app for other OS such as Windows or *Linux*, you can chose from so many languages & platforms (.net, Apolo, *DirectX*, opengl, Delphi, JAVA)


MSFT has released DirectX for Linux? When? I thought it was only for Windows. Probably the MS's first release for Linux!


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 7, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Simple! I read it on a news story. Read it here: *apcmag.com/5780/office_2008_for_mac_hits_beta_shows_slick_ui_and_draws_on_escher
> Excerpts: "They are switching over to XCode to support Intel processors."


well MS might use XCode to develop software for mac coz the software they deevlop for mac is native to mac n won't run on win , but in case of Adobe , they're advertised prominently as one of the leading corporate users of Qt on TrollTech site n Photoshop runs both on Windows n Mac so they're most probably using Qt .

@Aryayush , well mate Qt does compile natively for that OS , if it is sompiled for mac it will run *natively* on mac , it is during the compilation stage that all things r  linked natively according to the target OS , that's what Trolltech takes money for


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## CINTEL ENTRINO (May 7, 2007)

this thread is going nowhere.... only 4-5 members r active here.... wat happened to all those who know both win. n MACs equally well..... [note: this does not include me , i m happy with WIN.  ]

 why r they not replying so that we get to know more views.......


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## iMav (May 7, 2007)

win & mac only gx and zeeshan 

only mac ... arya and nepcker

only windows ... every1 else


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## kalpik (May 7, 2007)

^^ Im QUITE sure that people who own a MAC have worked with windows.. Cant say the same about windows users (except gx and zeeshan)..


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## aryayush (May 7, 2007)

mAV3 said:
			
		

> win & *mac* only *gx* and zeeshan


You are getting funnier as each day passes. LOL! Everyone knows how much knowledge gx_saurav has about anything even remotely related to a Macintosh.
Then again, maybe you were talking about the Big Macs (burgers)! 



			
				mAV3 said:
			
		

> only mac ... arya





			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> Im QUITE sure that people who own a MAC have worked with windows..


Not only have I worked with Windows (for six long years), I'm quite proficient at using it.


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## gxsaurav (May 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Everyone knows how much knowledge gx_saurav has about anything even remotely related to a Macintosh.


Note : What makes you think you are the only one using Mac here? Did you asked your big brother mod once, who he used to consult before buying his Mac?



> Not only have I worked with Windows (for six long years), I'm quite proficient at using it.


Now this really is a joke, when you didn't even know that Apple hardware doesn't work on PC, or Windows came first with EFI & what not.

I know I know, I can feel your desparation to reply to my review.  which might come out to be an eye opener for the rest of the forum showing shortcomings of Mac which you have been hiding from so long. Much of them we found in this very thread like lack of Cut & how naive XCode IDE is compared to Visual Studio.

Just for a note, Adobe isn't the only company making cross platform apps, ever heard of Luxology Modo? They make 90% part of the app similar for both Mac & Windows, the rest 10% is what makes it native to a particular OS. This 10% part is OS specific compiled in XCode for Mac & Visual Studio for PC


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## goobimama (May 7, 2007)

The Mac sucks at Gaming! End of story!

^^ Holy again! I'm on the Mac side and I'm saying these things!


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## gxsaurav (May 7, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> The Mac sucks at Gaming! End of story!
> 
> ^^ Holy again! I'm on the Mac side and I'm saying these things!



Goobi, you are more like a Mac user then a Macboy.


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## iMav (May 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> I'm quite proficient at using it.


  i thought i was the 1 cracking jokes


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## gxsaurav (May 7, 2007)

^^^^^^^^^ lolz

Arya, the spelling of Windows is W I N D O W S not W I N D W O E S


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## QwertyManiac (May 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Arya, the spelling of Windows is W I N D O W S not W I N D W O E S


But that's right, its a bag of wind opening which gives the user lots of woes. Thought my something below would be good if placed here ..


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## freebird (May 7, 2007)

again the thread is hacked by blah......where is mav3...s.e.ar...ch/...ing


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 7, 2007)

QwertyManiac said:
			
		

> But that's right, its a bag of wind opening which gives the user lots of woes. Thought my something below would be good if placed here ..


long time no see 

nyways i wasn't criticising Mac , i was only pointing what i felt was missing in Mac . XCode is actually, behind visual studio n programmers will agree on that. also like i said :
XCode has *no* code completion , gimme code completion n i'll forget all other problems .

No Harm Intended(for a certain gate crasher or should i say "thread crasher" ...)


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## aryayush (May 7, 2007)

Since I have no idea about XCode and the last programming language I ever used was C++ (and have forgotten even that), I won't contradict you on this point.

But over time, I have come across some cross platform developers who have expressed their opinion and have been absolutely in favour of XCode. I recently read a blog entry about a Windows programmer who went to one of Apple's annual WWDC events and was completely shocked by how far ahead Apple's developer tools were compared to Microsoft's and he described the whole experience.
You are new to XCode. Maybe the features you think are lacking are hidden or something and you'll figure things out as you get a hang of the tool.

Again, this is not my area, so I have no intention to contradict you.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Since I have no idea about XCode and the last programming language I ever used was C++ (and have forgotten even that), I won't contradict you on this point.
> 
> But over time, I have come across some cross platform developers who have expressed their opinion and have been absolutely in favour of XCode. I recently read a blog entry about a Windows programmer who went to one of Apple's annual WWDC events and was completely shocked by how far ahead Apple's developer tools were compared to Microsoft's and he described the whole experience.
> You are new to XCode. Maybe the features you think are lacking are hidden or something and you'll figure things out as you get a hang of the tool.
> ...



i certainly would like to read the review , maybe i can discover some "unearthed" features from the post , can u link to that post ?


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## aryayush (May 7, 2007)

Actually, I been trying all sorts of keywords on Google but the article is just not turning up. 

You wouldn't find any features of XCode in there but I really wanted you to read that guy's experience. If I'd remembered even a single phrase exactly, it would have been a child's play to find the thing, but I read it months ago and had never thought I would ever need it.

I'll keep looking and show it to you if it decides to show up. 


*Update:* I guess there is hardly anything on the Internet that I need and cannot find. 

Here is the blog entry I was talking about:


My day at the NYC Mac OS X Leopard Developer Tech Talk
« H E » Kevin Hoffman :: email
posted Fri 26 Jan 07

First, I need to disclaimer this blog post by saying that I am under an NDA until Leopard releases to the public, so the details of what I saw are not available. However, I can say a few things and reveal some details (details that I have already found on public sites and from slides during the WWDC keynotes, etc).

First, let's get to the token Mac vs. Windows story. I show up there with my Windows Vista laptop (I am a .NET developer, after all...). I'm checking mail and messing around with WPF eating my breakfast when someone (carrying a Macbook Pro) walks up and says, "Cool, is that Vista?". I of course say, "Yes", and was about to say, "and it runs just fine on my laptop!" when *Vista crashed*!! My cursor froze, and then a few seconds later, it was dumping core and rebooting. This event was followed by a bout of riotous laughter from the other Mac people seated at the circular table. Thankfully it was well before registration so there were only a couple other people around. Thankfully I consider myself an objective third party, so I wasn't embarassed by the Vista crash.

Read more...


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## gxsaurav (May 8, 2007)

Lolz...no wonder it crashed on his laptop., Running a beta OS with beta version of drivers. What was the state of drivers on Jan 26? Pathetic compared to today.

Arya, here is the thing. XCode makes it easy to develop apps for "Mac". .net is an integrated IDE which caters many languages & paltform, last I heard C# runs on 45 platform.

If you look at the .net part for making app only for Windows, you will come to realize that making an application in .net for Windows is as simple as drag & drop.


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## eddie (May 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...no wonder it crashed on his laptop., *Running a beta OS* with beta version of drivers.


 
Beta OS? Wasn't Windows Vista RTM on November 8, 2006? They RTM beta OS?


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## gxsaurav (May 8, 2007)

> Beta OS? Wasn't Windows Vista RTM on November 8, 2006? They RTM beta OS?



Read further plz. I mentioned "What was the condition of Drivers on Jan 26?"


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## goobimama (May 8, 2007)

GX. You can keep your Vista in your left pocket, and your drivers in your right pocket. Vista crashed and it still crashes now and then...

And that's the exact point why the Mac is so crash proof. If apple ships the OS as well as the Hardware, it is bound to be stable. I'm sure if the Mac OS was shipped independent of its hardware it would have faulted here and there, but its not and that's the whole point.


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## nepcker (May 8, 2007)

*@mav3*


> win & mac only *gx* and zeeshan
> 
> only mac ... arya and *nepcker*
> 
> only windows ... every1 else


 GX only knows about the *bad* part of OS X. As for me, I've been a Windows user for almost ten years. My Mac experience is only after I bought my iBook. I own a PC too and use it mainly to download stuffs -- I'm downloading some files right now on my PC! And I've been using Linux for three years (Used only Ubuntu). 

*@Zeeshan Quireshi*


> XCode has no code completion , gimme code completion n i'll forget all other problems .


 Try these links, they are about Code Completion on XCode:
*developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/XcodeUserGuide20/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/ed_code_completion/chapter_21_section_2.html
*developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/XcodeUserGuide/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/03_05_ed_code_completion/chapter_22_section_1.html
*lists.apple.com/archives/Java-dev/2004/Sep/msg00486.html
Just visit Apple's site and you'll get all the things you want to know about XCode there!



> in case of Adobe , they're advertised prominently as one of the leading corporate users of Qt on TrollTech site n Photoshop runs both on Windows n Mac so they're most probably using Qt .


 I don't know about any other Adobe apps except Photoshop (though I'm learning Illustrator), so I'm not sure about others, but Photoshop is indeed written on XCode. (Source)
Check out "Adobe on Mactel: an FAQ": *blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2006/02/adobe_on_mactel.html

*@goobimama*


> *Mac* is so crash proof.


No, my friend's mac (which runs Mac OS 7) crashes every week due to a shitty piece of software called Internet Explorer


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## gxsaurav (May 8, 2007)

Wasen't this thread about Mac User interface & usability. As far as that is concerned here is the thing. Mac has the philosophy of palleted Windows, open XCOde & there are so many Windows which do not even cycle using alt+tab (like in windows). In .net IDE everything is in one Windows which eases teh developement speed a lot.



> GX only knows about the *bad* part of OS X.



& Nokia makes bread N72 

Xcode doesn't even makes it easy to port old code to new Intel architecture. Those adobe software engg. are themselves saying in the post link u posted that XCode is playing catchup & they were working more on .net & Metrowork


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 8, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> *@Zeeshan Quireshi*
> Try these links, they are about Code Completion on XCode:
> *developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/XcodeUserGuide20/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/ed_code_completion/chapter_21_section_2.html
> *developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/XcodeUserGuide/Contents/Resources/en.lproj/03_05_ed_code_completion/chapter_22_section_1.html
> ...



well mate i have searched all those links earlier even before u posted them but lemme explain what i mean





			
				Apple said:
			
		

> Xcode uses information about symbols and their scope within your code to determine the contents of the completion list. When there are syntax errors in the context, Xcode limits its scope analysis to the current code line.


u see XCode *ONLY* completes the variables thay *you have defined* , it does not complete the indentifiers n the Standard Libraries of the language u're using(C++,Java) o in XCode if u start typing the name of a standard(ie which is defined by default from manufacturer) java function it won't auto-complete it whereas this is what exactly code completion is most useful in , so that teh developer does not have to remember the usage n syntax of each n every standard function , i hope i got my point forward 



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> And that's the exact point why the Mac is so crash proof. If apple ships the OS as well as the Hardware, it is bound to be stable. I'm sure if the Mac OS was shipped independent of its hardware it would have faulted here and there, but its not and that's the whole point.


 that's the whole point of the debate mate , Apple sells the hardware at such extremely high costs it becomes detrimental to the sales of Mac . same way if u buy *Vista loaded on a machine from an OEM* then they'll hv all drivers in place n u won't hv ny issues or crashes ,  unless u mess around with the system files .


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## aryayush (May 8, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> GX only knows about the *bad* part of OS X.


LOL!  You are learning some funny things from mAV3's posts. If you seriously think that gx_saurav had absolutely _any_ idea (be it bad or good) about Mac OS X (or Macs or even Apple in general), then you need a reality check, mate. 



			
				Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Apple sells the hardware at such extremely high costs


Oh really! Is thirty three thousand a high price for the tiniest computer in the world? Is Rs. two lac a high price for the first octocore computer in the world? I don't think so. Admitted, the prices of Apple's machines are a tad on the higher side when compared to other vendors who use lower quality parts such as HP, but you get what you pay for. And you get Mac OS X, as a bonus. Plus, you get a badge that says "look at me, I'm cool". And that counts. That counts a lot. It counts even to people who deny it.

The only thing that Apple's line-up is lacking is a Mac that is easily upgradable and isn't priced too high. If the iMac was upgradable, Apple would have had a complete and very competitively priced line-up.

And as far as the notebook line-up goes, there is absolutely nothing to complain. They are priced right, have Mac OS X, look sexy, ship with Mac OS X, are very durable (apart from the battery issue which was not Apple's fault at all), Mac OS X is installed by default, have the MagSafe power adapter (a true life-saver if ever there was one), Mac OS X, backlit keyboards, Mac OS X, motion sensors and Mac OS X.

Oh, and I almost forgot, they have *Mac OS X* installed which itself is worth more than the price of admission. 

@Zeeshan Quireshi, you seem to be an objective person and therefore, I took the trouble of replying to your post. Please do not start a flame war here! Be civil, like you have been till now.


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## gxsaurav (May 9, 2007)

Warning - THread hijacked by macboys again as usual.



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> LOL!  You are learning some funny things from mAV3's posts. If you seriously think that gx_saurav had absolutely _any_ idea (be it bad or good) about Mac OS X (or Macs or even Apple in general), then you need a reality check, mate.



Personal attack # 2




> *Is Rs. two lac a high price* for the first octocore computer in the world?





> the prices of Apple's machines are a tad on the higher side when compared to other vendors *who use lower quality parts such as HP*



Yup it is high when Dell, alienware & HP are giving for Rs 1.78 lakh

And I wonder what higher quality parts you are talking about in Mac. Do you have any idea who makes the motherboards of Mac Pro, or better yet who makes the Macbook? The motherboard is made by Asus & Macbook is made by Quanta, same companies which makes Dell laptop & Dell motherboards & so much more. Here, again I wonder, does Apple uses Gold plated connector? or Fiber optics based channels in the motherboard for routing the data? Wow, so high quality product apple has....wonder from which angle.

Oh sorry I forgot you sevearly need some knowledge about how things work in hardware world.



> And as far as the notebook line-up goes, there is absolutely nothing to complain. They are priced right, *have Mac OS X*, look sexy, *ship with Mac OS X*, are very durable (apart from the battery issue which was not Apple's fault at all), *Mac OS X is installed by default*, have the MagSafe power adapter (a true life-saver if ever there was one), *Mac OS X*, backlit keyboards, *Mac OS X*, motion sensors and *Mac OS X*.



That macbook Pro costs 80k in manufacturing  go figure the componet prices from Quanta or Asus 

Again showing your macboyism which has no proper thing to write here other then well...whine.




> @Zeeshan Quireshi, you seem to be an objective person and therefore, I took the trouble of replying to your post. Please do not start a flame war here! Be civil, like you have been till now.



Lolz....you have no how better he is compard to u, do u?


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## goobimama (May 9, 2007)

Hey talking about Wine (gx mentioned whine), any recommendations from you guys? I want a dry red wine somewhere just below a thousand bucks... pink wine is also acceptable.


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## mail2and (May 9, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Hey talking about Wine (gx mentioned whine), any recommendations from you guys? I want a dry red wine somewhere just below a thousand bucks... pink wine is also acceptable.



*img257.imageshack.us/img257/3328/roflvz4.gif


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## gxsaurav (May 9, 2007)

Goobi, you sure u r in legal age to drink


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## aryayush (May 9, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Hey talking about Wine (gx mentioned whine), any recommendations from you guys? I want a dry red wine somewhere just below a thousand bucks... pink wine is also acceptable.


Trust Milind to completely go on a tangent! Spammer!


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## goobimama (May 9, 2007)

@gx and anand: I'm serious. (insert angry smiley)


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## aryayush (May 9, 2007)

Of course you are. Look at his blog, guys; infested with beerfests.


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## iMav (May 9, 2007)

what do u expect he is a goan


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## gxsaurav (May 9, 2007)

Hey, whats the name of that Ceshew drink which is famous for Goa? Freny I guess....don't exectly remember. Milind you saw beerfest (movie) recently  kya


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## goobimama (May 9, 2007)

B**tard. Just cause I'm a Goan means I'm a drunk? The beer days are over now (yep, we had a beerfest whilst watching beerfest . I've moved on to wine's now. I particularly like Madera (la?) pink wine made in Nasik as well as Chateau wines. 

As for that Goan drink, Fenny is the refined one, which is a bit harsh, but I prefer to impure "urrack" along with lime juice....once in a while that is.

Aren't we drifting away from the topic? Though its not hurting anyone since **these** threads need an end other than getting locked/users banned...


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## Quiz_Master (May 9, 2007)

Uhmm... 

Am I on the right place or is this a online beer-shop...


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## aryayush (May 9, 2007)

goobimama has single handedly taken the task of saving this thread upon himself (in an unorthodox fashion). God only knows what will happen to it now!


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## gxsaurav (May 9, 2007)

Zesshan had an accident, he updated MacOS X online & now it no longer boots so he had to remove it.

Me on the other hand had to submit the old spare HD, looking for a new One.


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## goobimama (May 9, 2007)

^^ Hey GX, don't drift away from the topic.... (insert angry smiley:: Insert winking smiley)


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 9, 2007)

hey Goobi , what actually do you like in Beer . seriously i tried *Beer* n it was totally *Yuck !* .


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Oh really! Is thirty three thousand a high price for the tiniest computer in the world?


 well that box for 33k does not even contain a Display , keyboard or mouse , let alone a graphics card so actual cost comes around to be rs 45k(u aren't going to use a CRT , are you ?). for 45k nowadays u can configure a PC with Core 2 Duo E6300 , 1GB of ram n a 19" LCD Monitor + kb + mouse + Mid-range GFX card + Legit Copy of XP . now ain't that much better than what you're gettin for 50k with Mac ? 

Also , offers from PC Assemblers like dell are much more better than ac at the price of 45k .


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Is Rs. two lac a high price for the first octocore computer in the world?


 well , Sun was the first company to commercially Offer a Real Octa Core Processor , the *Sun UltraSPARC T1 to say the least . Also  the Processor inside the Mac pro is not an actual Octa-Core bcoz it uses two Quad core processors n not a single Octa core processor . 

Secondly , at the price you mentioned u ONLY get a the CPU without a monitor and with the teeny-weeny GeFore 7300 GT , now ain't that expensive ?



			
				aryayush said:
			
		


			@Zeeshan Quireshi, you seem to be an objective person and therefore, I took the trouble of replying to your post. Please do not start a flame war here! Be civil, like you have been till now. 

Click to expand...

 ahh , we're men of the world , aren't we ?*


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## aryayush (May 9, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> hey Goobi , what actually do you like in Beer . seriously i tried *Beer* n it was totally *Yuck !* .
> well that box for 33k does not even contain a Display , keyboard or mouse , let alone a graphics card so actual cost comes around to be rs 45k(u aren't going to use a CRT , are you ?). for 45k nowadays u can configure a PC with Core 2 Duo E6300 , 1GB of ram n a 19" LCD Monitor + kb + mouse + Mid-range GFX card + Legit Copy of XP . now ain't that much better than what you're gettin for 50k with Mac ?
> 
> Also , offers from PC Assemblers like dell are much more better than ac at the price of 45k .
> ...


*You get Mac OS X with none of them and as I said before it is worth more than the price of admission all by itself.

And I did not say that Macs are not slightly higher priced when compared to their PC counterparts. I just questioned your opinion that the prices are extremely high. BTW, I openly challenge you to find me a computer that is as well-specced as the Mac Pro but it priced a lot less. Do it. Take your time.

And when you compared the Mac Mini, you forgot the important point I mentioned. It is the tiniest computer in the world. And yes, any company will charge you extra for better design. A hair-cut in an air conditioned salon will always cost more than one in a non air-conditioned one. *


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 9, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> You get Mac OS X with none of them and as I said before it is worth more than the price of admission all by itself.
> 
> And I did not say that Macs are not slightly higher priced when compared to their PC counterparts. I just questioned your opinion that the prices are extremely high. BTW, I openly challenge you to find me a computer that is as well-specced as the Mac Pro but it priced a lot less. Do it. Take your time.
> 
> And when you compared the Mac Mini, you forgot the important point I mentioned. It is the tiniest computer in the world. And yes, any company will charge you extra for better design. A hair-cut in an air conditioned salon will always cost more than one in a non air-conditioned one.



well as 200,000 Indian rupees = 4,919.8 U.S. dollars therefore u can very well configure an Octa-Core Workstation from Dell at their site , just try it for urself , the lowest Octa Core system with LCD Display + KB + Mouse + GFX card came out to be at $3600 , which is much lesser than the $4919 the Mac Pro commands and also if you're saying that the Dell XPS series n the Alienware series Do Not look good n mac is the only good looking system around then i'll say that the definition of beauty is subjective , it all depends on the viewer . 

nyways i don't wanna argue on mac price nymore coz everyone knows that Macs are overpriced n there's no second thought in that


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## gxsaurav (May 10, 2007)

Lolz...zeeshan thanx for the eye opening facts. But like always, Macboys will deny it.



> You get Mac OS X with none of them and as I said before it is worth more than the price of admission all by itself.



:ROFL


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## iMav (May 14, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> And that's the exact point why the Mac is so crash proof. If apple ships the OS as well as the Hardware, it is bound to be stable. I'm sure if the Mac OS was shipped independent of its hardware it would have faulted here and there


 it does


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

lolz mav3, even gfx card driver doesn't installs properly


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## iMav (May 14, 2007)

tell me abtr man i had spent 2 days and installed mac atleast more than 12 times trying to figure out and at the end i had to tweak my bios and then dwnld drivers then it luckily worked


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

Thats the only problem with Mac. Inside it is a PC, same component, same hardware, same motherboard from Asus, then why the hell they downplay other PCs.


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## iMav (May 14, 2007)

after they switched to intel apple has lost its exclusivity in terms of what it has to offer the only reason why they will still be exclusive to an extent is coz of their price

and yeah now tht they have come into the open with intel they are also facing what MS has been dealing with for almost a decade ... piracy  lets c how apple deals with it


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

he he, welcome to the world where the user screws the OS as he likes it .


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## eddie (May 14, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> nopes , Adobe uses *Qt* , code written for Qt in C++ is cross compilable , so they develop their apps in Visual Studio using the Qt framework n then they can compile the *Exact* same code for Mac , Linux etc too . Qt by default includes support for Mac, Linux n Windows n u can add support for mobile n other platforms .


 I was just going through this thread and came across this post. Can you post some sources where you got the info that Adobe used Qt under Visual Studio to make Creative Suite 3 

This seems more like an imagined dream story to me, but if it is true then would love to know when this happened.


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## aryayush (May 14, 2007)

Adobe Creative Suite 3 is a native Cocoa application and any native Cocoa application has to be written from the ground up in XCode. I am hundred percent sure of this fact. You can ask me to write it on a sheet of paper and attest to it. 

Look at any native Cocoa application on a Mac and its Windows version. All of them look and work differently be it Skype, Yahoo Messenger, Microsoft Office (the 2008 version), VLC media player, etc. Adobe CS3 is no exception to the rule.


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

You are getting one thing wrong, which I found when I was beta testing Photoshop CS3. It is not compleately made in .net or XCode. There is no point in making an app liek this.

Photoshop CS3 consists of 2 parts. One is the photoshop engine, you know like the engine of a car. Now on top of this is OS specific optimisation & looks

90% is same rest 10% is OS specific

The engine is coded by Software engeniers & is cross platform compatible because it is on it's own.

The 10% part is made by UI designers & those who optimise photoshop for Mac or Vista. This code is made in Qt because of which it is Mac UI compatible cos Qt used OS specific bitmaps & pngs for the toolbar buttons etc as mentioned previously.


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## eddie (May 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> This code is made in Qt because of which it is Mac UI compatible cos Qt used OS specific bitmaps & pngs for the toolbar buttons etc as mentioned previously.


 Do you have any sources to back that claim? Adobe CS3's GUI is made in Qt?


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## aryayush (May 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You are getting one thing wrong, which I found when I was beta testing Photoshop CS3.
> 
> Photoshop CS3 consists of 2 parts. One is the photoshop engine, you know like the engine of a car. Now on top of this is OS specific optimisation & looks
> 
> ...


Well, that's new to me and sounds somewhat true so I guess I'll believe it.


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

el mooo

Yup, check Photoshop SDK & developers/beta tester pages. Using the one made by Trolltech.

However, for CS3 for Vista, Photoshoped is even more optimised using .net 3.0 & 2.0 specific optimisation


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## eddie (May 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> el mooo
> 
> Yup, check Photoshop SDK & developers/beta tester pages. Using the one made by Trolltech.


 *www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&clie...0&q=trolltech+photoshop+sdk&btnG=Search&meta=
That doesn't tell me anything related? You have any specific links?


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

Sorry, can't refer to the adobe forums. That requires registration & official beta tester status.


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## eddie (May 14, 2007)

^ Oh please!!! Gimme a break. You people come out to make stupid claims and then hide behind "beta tester" stuff? That is absolute Bull! There is not even an iota of truth in this claim that Apple makes CS3's UI using Qt. Yes they did use Qt for making Photoshop Album's UI...but CS3? Don't make me laugh!


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## praka123 (May 14, 2007)

^anyways trolltech site quotes this:



> The following describes how Adobe uses Qt technology:
> 
> "Qt simplified our task by providing high-level tools we could customize to meet our needs. The product is excellent, the support was outstanding and we are extremely pleased with our decision to go with Qt. "
> 
> Mike DePaoli, Adobe Photoshop Album (now Adobe Photoshop Elements)


*www.trolltech.com/customers/allcustomers/adobe/


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## gxsaurav (May 14, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> ^ Oh please!!! Gimme a break. You people come out to make stupid claims and then hide behind "beta tester" stuff? That is absolute Bull! There is not even an iota of truth in this claim that Apple makes CS3's UI using Qt. Yes they did use Qt for making Photoshop Album's UI...but CS3? Don't make me laugh!



Yo Bro, I don't wanna face a lawsuit ok. U gimme your address if they send me a notice I will give them your address that you told me to post here


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## eddie (May 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yo Bro, I don't wanna face a lawsuit ok. U gimme your address if they send me a notice I will give them your address that you told me to post here


 Oh yeah right!!! More stories. Dude do you think we are 2 year olds who would believe any Santa Claus or Easter Bunny story that our uncle Saurav tells us? Seriously man...most of us here have signed N.D.A.'s related to both hardware as well as software and none of them allow you to declare in any public forum about a companies devel platform and then hide behind the lie that something is not "allowed". Blah...


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## aryayush (May 15, 2007)

Depends on person to person. 'Nuff said.


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## gxsaurav (May 15, 2007)

> Santa Claus or Easter Bunny story that our *uncle Saurav*


Yo Yo Yo, I m just 21 el moooo....abhi to shadi bhi nahi hui hai



> Depends on person to person. 'Nuff said


Mind posting here how you got free software for Mac & also MS office for Mac & also Photoshop CS3 for Mac


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## eddie (May 16, 2007)

kenshin1988 said:
			
		

> ^^^^ If i said post ur OS or any software key here.....will u post it???.....If hes sayin  its not allowed....then why don't u believe....


 Did you even read the points we are discussing on or did you just come in here to post some random stuff? Do you know what we are talking about? Ever read even a single page of any N.D.A.? Please stay away from topics you know little about.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yo Yo Yo, I m just 21 el moooo....abhi to shadi bhi nahi hui hai


Well then don't think of us as kids and stop telling us stories with no truth in them


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

It is a public statement that Adobe uses Qt to make there applications. Now, which applications  & what part of it, that is a question whose answer I cannot provide. Sorry.

Now can we go back to topic.


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

But just a few posts ago, you said this:





			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Photoshop CS3 consists of 2 parts. One is the photoshop engine, you know like the engine of a car. Now on top of this is OS specific optimisation & looks
> 
> 90% is same rest 10% is OS specific
> 
> ...


OMG! Isn't there any limit to how much you can lie...


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## eddie (May 16, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> It is a public statement that Adobe uses Qt to make there applications. *Now, which applications  & what part of it, that is a question whose answer I cannot provide.* Sorry.


Yeah...now you are talking. You cannot prove anything because what you claimed earlier is nothing but your cooked up stories. Hide behind the stories...hide behind them. This is what you claimed in your earlier post





> You are getting one thing wrong, which *I found when I was beta testing Photoshop CS3.* It is not compleately made in .net or XCode. There is no point in making an app liek this.
> 
> *Photoshop CS3 consists of 2 parts.* One is the photoshop engine, you know like the engine of a car. Now on top of this is OS specific optimisation & looks
> 
> ...


You clearly said that Photoshop CS3's UI is made from Qt and now you come out and say that you cannot tell us "which application and which part"? You don't need to "tell us" that thing...you already told us that part...just prove it now.


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

You were a little late... but you certainly used a lot more words.


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## eddie (May 16, 2007)

Yeah looks like I was typing when you already made the post


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Here are two quotes from Adobe's official website:



> To support this expanded development effort, Adobe plans to transition its Apple development process from Metrowerks CodeWarrior to Apple’s Xcode, a high-performance UNIX-based development environment that can support a universal binary wrapper on two binaries— one for systems based on Intel processors and one for systems based on PowerPC processors.


Source



> It's important to make a few things clear: We're working really hard, together with Apple, to make this conversion. Apple staff are on site at Adobe every day and have been for quite some time, helping our teams make the required move to the Xcode development environment & taking our feedback on how to make Xcode support large projects like Photoshop.
> 
> Everyone--Mac users, Adobe, and Apple--wants to get Adobe apps running natively on Mactel as soon as possible, but doing so while maintaining their quality will take time. If we knew how to do this more quickly, we would do it.


Source

I knew it. I just knew that it is absolutely impossible to write a native Cocoa application (or even parts of it) in any other development environment apart from XCode. They had to port the whole application over from their previous dev environment, and even that wasn't QT, to XCode and then code it accordingly.


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

I said the code is made in Qt following Zeeshan's analogy & public statement at the adobe forum.

Now if you consider me as a lier...to hell with it


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## eddie (May 16, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Now if you consider me as a lier...to hell with it


 We are not "considering" you as a liar...we have "proved" it that you are a liar


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Exactly. All credit to you.  I must have been completely out of whack to have actually taken this guy at his word.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I said the code is made in Qt following Zeeshan's analogy & public statement at the adobe forum.
> 
> Now if you consider me as a lier...to hell with it


But you told that you found it out when you were beta testing for them. You made it sound like you had the insider information on it and it was all exclusive and stuff. You never mentioned earlier that it was basically just stuff cooked up to support "Zeeshan's analogy [sic]" or whatever. As usual, you just posted a bunch of useless lies trying to show off that you know something that others don't and that makes you more knowledgeable. Of course, if it has the added benefit of a chance to mock Apple thrown in, it's all the better, isn't it!

There is only one difference between you and Steve Ballmer - he's got loads of money.


And BTW, which school did you attend! I learnt the spelling of the word 'liar' in kindergarten.


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

> But you told that you found it out when you were beta testing for them. You made it sound like you had the insider information on it and it was all exclusive and stuff. You never mentioned earlier that it was basically just stuff cooked up to support "Zeeshan's analogy [sic]" or whatever. As usual, you just posted a bunch of useless lies trying to show off that you know something that others don't and that makes you more knowledgeable. Of course, if it has the added benefit of a chance to mock Apple thrown in, it's all the better, isn't it!



Mind reading again, I mentioned that I cannot provide details whether Adobe Photoshop is made in Qt or not. That is some info available to Adobe developers only, however I mentioned it is made in Qt because of what I came to know while I was beta testing it.



> And BTW, which school did you attend! I learnt the spelling of the word 'liar' in kindergarten.



When You were studying in kindergarten, i was a topper in "casanova institute of love " . So, you get the point... boy


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## eddie (May 16, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mind reading again, I mentioned that I cannot provide details whether Adobe Photoshop is made in Qt or not. That is some info available to Adobe developers only, however *I mentioned it is made in Qt because of what I came to know while I was beta testing it.*


 And I am just guessing that you "can't tell us" how you came to the conclusion that the GUI was made in Qt. Did your monitor speak to you and tell you about the source code? My god dude...It seems lying is as important to you as breathing


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mind reading again, I mentioned that I cannot provide details whether Adobe Photoshop is made in Qt or not. That is some info available to Adobe developers only, however I mentioned it is made in Qt because of what I came to know while I was beta testing it.


Oh, but you are not a developer. So how come they told you that stuff?
And developing in QT is really nothing worth hiding. In fact, if they are using it for their Mac version, they _have_ to mention it on the developer pages on their website. They have mentioned XCode and CodeWarrior, but I don't see QT anywhere.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> When You were studying in kindergarten, i was a topper in "casanova institute of love " . So, you get the point... boy


Ah, that explains a lot of stuff. Seriously, that explains a huge deal. Make it a your signature, it will help people who read your posts know where you come from and whose opinion they are reading.

BTW, doesn't it ever happen that you have to spell your name in front of those "lovers"? Boy, those must be uncomfortable moments.


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

> BTW, doesn't it ever happen that you have to spell your name in front of those "lovers"? Boy, those must be uncomfortable moments.



I can assure you, I have had more unforgetable moments with my lovers then you had with your Mac


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Well, that's quite obvious, given that I had none with my Mac.


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

oh...k, so all the moments u had with mac were forgetful, good


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