# Is America better than India???



## zegulas (Feb 3, 2006)

What I mean to ask is that, the standard of living in America is much better compared to here in India, why is it so???
Why can't we (India) become developed fast?
The government has so much of money, don't they???  

Don't think I have gone mad, just want your opinion about this issue!!!


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## rajesh (Feb 3, 2006)

Politicians and the _Babus_.

ALso, WE in a way


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## rajas700 (Feb 3, 2006)

zegulas said:
			
		

> What I mean to ask is that, the standard of living in America is much better compared to here in India, why is it so???
> Why can't we (India) become developed fast?
> The government has so much of money, don't they???
> 
> Don't think I have gone mad, just want your opinion about this issue!!!




U MUST KNOW ONE THINK *INDIA'S ARE RICH AND INDIA IS POOR.*
I HOPE U UNDERSTAND THE MEANING....AND DO U KNOW????? INDIA RANKED 3 IN BRIEF........


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## esumitkumar (Feb 3, 2006)

MORE POPULATION ---->Less resources ...more ppl ---->CORRUPTION ------>Country goes in drain........

Plus Netas who are not  literate .......... no abuse is enuff for them....  

SABKA RANG DE BASANTI jaisa haal kar dena chahiye.......     

Junta wake up !!!


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## Sourabh (Feb 3, 2006)

Yea right, but sue is mine 

Sue kar mere man ko ....lol


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## it_waaznt_me (Feb 3, 2006)

esumitkumar said:
			
		

> MORE POPULATION ---->Less resources ...more ppl ---->CORRUPTION ------>Country goes in drain........



Thats not true .. Infact the BRIC report mentioned that India's population will be a boon for development as India will have more working population than China and US in 2050 .. 

This  was the closest match I could find of what I am talking about..


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## zegulas (Feb 3, 2006)

But whats the problem with the people of India???
Why do they just keep on talking about corruption and do very little or nothing, if we want to, if we have the desire to develope fast, we can!
I think the biggest hurddel for India's developement is education among the masses.
No quality of education in India except the big names  
BTW I have not watched 'Rang De Basanti', so what is it all about:



> SABKA RANG DE BASANTI jaisa haal kar dena chahiye.......


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## shwetanshu (Feb 3, 2006)

in rdb, they kill defence minister


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## abhishekkulkarni (Feb 3, 2006)

Actually there is only one big problem - A problem of the entire generation of the people who govern our country of not being open to change ......   

And there is just no solution in hand ....


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## crazybutt (Feb 3, 2006)

> Why do they just keep on talking about corruption and do very little or nothing, if we want to, if we have the desire to develope fast, we can!


Well       we "do" have d desire, man.....but no guts and no strong will........we can preach d pants off of any father or rabi but we do nothing.....infact no one does!!!
  i believe dat due to our beri big teenage population...india and china will become d future hub for all d big corporations...dis will bring abt clarity and transparency in d working of d infrastructure and services sectors...bcos d companies will drive dem to dese changes. so i think privatisation will save our butts from beauracracy and d corrupt politicians BUT if unregulated it itself is also a big threat to us.........so we gotta be wary of it too!!!


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## zegulas (Feb 3, 2006)

I think after all this that all of us (Young people) are ready for the change, the only ones who are not ready are the elder people; I think after they retire and the time when we take charge most of the problems would be solved, and I personaly think that this change will not take as long as 2020 but mere 5-7 years!!!


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## sknowonweb (Feb 3, 2006)

Few years back media shouts "All politicians , ministeres must be graduates so that literates can handle the nation well, in an constructive path".
  But the corrupted ones Got redhanded are literates and one is a Foreign univ's degree holder.
  so its not the politicians part but the Peoples part.In a republic a citizen must get his rights as he is been governed by his representative and must aware he is an essential element in making the nation function properly.We accept our modern slavery position in different formats and just not took any big risk, The result is , everybody around us feel safer not to do any new thing.Then from where can we rise.
  It is a shame till the nation has evil sides of the republican vote in Bihar and cannot save its Northern and North western states.Remember our security forces attrocities in manipur.(Thes kind of things drives us close to US !).
  It is supposed that IIT's supply the nations top brains the will to serve for the nation,to start Commercial enterprises, to win the world with Knowledge. But it is a handful from IIT who do these things.
 But any how the labour population of US is lesser than INDIA and it can be considered as Akkaraikku Ikkarai pachchai.("The land on the other side is always greener")

One better way to improve india is to stop viewing these masala films,avoi tv,Buy morethan one newspaper and never grab news but interpret knowledge, follow ur own rule,be honest, step out , Walk.


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## gxsaurav (Feb 4, 2006)

All comes to a few factors

1) The government employee are paid less salary, due to which they are forced to take bribes, after all the general usage items cost a lot, how many of u ever tried to find the cost of LPG Gas, or Wheat

2) Really really bad tax laws, they are not changed from 20 years, still using the law of that time, while the purchasing power of money is now changed a lot

3) We, The people, those who want to make some difference, & change something are either hailed back or never given a chance

Remember, a corrupt officer is also a human being, he takes bribes cos he needs money, he has desires, even beyond what he should have


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## nix (Feb 4, 2006)

the problem lies with the youth of india...none of us wants to enter politics. i know its hard to start from a scratch and it involves dirty work, but somewhere, we have to start. ppl like us in this forum can make a difference if given a chance.  but those ppl just wont let anyone else in the chair except their own sons or relatives. exactly whats happening in my city.


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## __Virus__ (Feb 4, 2006)

Dint read all the replies. We can surely be like them..keeping in mind it will never happen. Kill all those bast@rds, those politicians, those corrupt a$$es and surely ur post wud be worth ur point. Sad to say, its impossible.


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## rajesh_nk22 (Feb 4, 2006)

NO, everything is possible, each of us can make difference. Have u read Kalam's speach, then u will understand what u can do for the country. Just by blaming others, we cannot make progress. 
Its rightly said "Jab jago tabhi sabera", just keep this in mind, we have to change, "ye hindustan pahale soneki chidiya tha,  aur ab bhi hai" , yaha kisi chij ki kami nahi hai, bas kami hai to soch ki, vicharonki, aur jisdin ye hame jan jayenge, tab hame duniyaki koe takat rok nahi sakegi.


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## hack expert (Feb 4, 2006)

well everything is indeed possible but the case in india is we do not follow the golden rule :Action speaks louder than words 

all people do is talk about changing ,do this  do that , netas give speeches not from their own mind but those prepared by their assistants .watz the use all energy spent only for  talking .

well change can surely be brought if we try and i mean try  not just talk about trying


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## QwertyManiac (Feb 4, 2006)

Exports. USoA has loads of mines, farms, etc and exports a huge lot it. thus thier currency is valuable. India has started booming and is evident from bush's statement of China and India as rising competitors. Thus i hope we develop sooner than expected by most of us.

and one more thing... stop reading/writing this stuff here and move on.. do your work.. not to sit and worry about india.. jus contribute to it


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## __Virus__ (Feb 4, 2006)

NO I bet its just not possible. Listening to speeches and having that adrenaline rush until his speech finishes and then back to same routine. Its just like going on saying I can fly without wings, I have heard a speech by XYZ. Agreed, we all can make a difference, indeed very big difference but on words. What can we, as individuals do towards growth of country?? Pay our taxes? B loyal ? and what can we do as individuals? Can we eliminate that corruption, hell no. Can we drill this in peoples mind that we not only have to think for one cause, but India as a whole? hell no. Not 1 not 2 each and everyone from top to bottom has got real corrupt asses doods...it wont make ANY DIFFERENCE by just thinking. Just a very very small example. Right from a watchman in govt hospitals to wardboys in high schools and colleges to those hawaldars in police stations to those acps to those hr's in offices to those vp's to those managers to those circle inspectors...a$$oholic ba$tards. Everyone wants there work done, tend towards bribary..get their work done and what more do they need. Truth is hard to digest and facts just cant be denied. U might start ur loyalty towards India, I may start doing so, it just wont have any effect on those greedy lamers. How many cases havent we seen??? the stamp scam where in a booty of 32000 Crore was involded,,,, god damn those arzes 32000 crore??? what not cudhve been done with that amount??? Just think of all those umemployeed youths, how much benifit they wudve gotten with that money if govt had been easy on spending money on them. See we cant really question that scamster, the money got down the drain with his involvement and if not it wudve drained down the govt way. Just think about it..how much money dont they have?? cant they just comeup and spend it for good?? Another good example.... When there is a conferences to be held by any Politic Party, how much money dont they spend on all thoe guifications of roads ans shit?? cant they just spend it on unemployement and poor people??? what not wud they get??? its just like investing and earning later..they just wont do that..y wud they?? they are happy and thats it..Taken the example of america, will india ever provide free and compulsary education til class 12th??? simple answer no..so no education no labour and hence no technicians and hence digging own grave..Point in all this cr@p is that, we just cant be like america. Who wudnt want to??


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## esumitkumar (Feb 4, 2006)

> Thats not true .. Infact the BRIC report mentioned that India's population will be a boon for development as India will have more working population than China and US in 2050 ..



BUt tell me it wasnt me ....*if population is boom..then why countries like China are putting a stop to it.....*I think you should see crunch of resources due to population.....what a bad infrastructure is there....

Some boons of more population  

1. Every time you go to railway station to buy a ticket.....you find hundereds of ppl waiting despite 8-10 ticket windows........

2. Ever seen railway general compartment ......thousands of ppl fighting there.....for a place   

3. Decreasing land space and water ........ no basic amenities

No power in villages..even in cities like Pune 
we are getting power cut of 3 hrs.. 

This list is endless...............

You know resources increase by 1,2,3,4 that is AP...while population increases by 2,4,8,16,32,64 assuming each one has 2 children (while this is not true for most ppl .....who are illiterate) ........ so 

*IS POPULATION A BOON *?

(I agree India has largest working young ppl due to its population  and most ppl are doing sasta labour work for videsis in IT, call centre etc )


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## __Virus__ (Feb 4, 2006)

esumitkumar said:
			
		

> > BUt tell me it wasnt me ....*if population is boom..then why countries like China are putting a stop to it.....*I think you should see crunch of resources due to population.....what a bad infrastructure is there....
> >
> > Some boons of more population
> >
> > ...


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## sujithtom (Feb 4, 2006)

What we see of India today is not the effort of the goverment but the Indians itself. The government is corrupt for ages and has contributed very very less to India.


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## it_waaznt_me (Feb 4, 2006)

Heh .. I cant find link to the relevant article by Geffry Sachs .. I'll type it when I reach home .. The essence is India will have more working population _because_ of China's one child policy .. 
And to the next part of your post you are mixing issues .. You start with assuming that every person is a parasite and he doesnt contribute to his surroundings .. 
I'll write about it when I reach home ...


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## Sophie Matthews (Feb 4, 2006)

When i 1st arrived in India... i found it it much more unorganised as compared to UK.
The IG airport was very crowdy...
i've been 2 US twice for travelling and found it 10x times better than India.
India has to  work well to make its presence felt


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## techpras (Feb 5, 2006)

Population will be a boon for India, if that population resources can be utilizied or managed by government correctly,


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## siriusb (Feb 5, 2006)

One another contributor IMO is women. Our customs, rich and grand as it may be, tend to lock women away or  restrain them in some way. Another contributor is the under-utilization of rural people, them being the major part of India. If we can tap into these two resources, we would be outta here in no time.


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## kato (Feb 5, 2006)

dude but rather than blaming our own goverment have we ever done anything to stop. Dont we also jump traffic lights and when there is some accident we blame traffic police man. We say goverment aint properly handling the litter and garbage problem but we increase its amount by not throwing or disposing it at the right place. We say all officials are corrupt tell me dont we only ask them sometimes if we dont have a ticket(for example)  we tell them we will give u so much amount and pls leave us.

Edit: Even i dont follow wat iwrote and blame goverment


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## goobimama (Feb 5, 2006)

I prefer India to the US...I live a much better life than americans....

As in, at the end of the day, I am happy (no stress, worries..)


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## Ramakrishnan (Aug 8, 2006)

Corruption Corruption Corruption Corruption


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## Pathik (Aug 8, 2006)

INDIA rox....


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## nix (Aug 8, 2006)

the biggest problem we're facing today is vote bank politics. ppl attitude must also change...we must not be silent if something happens, we must be united and think whats the reason for our problems...problems like kashmir...why only certain ppl are targeted there? what protection should be given to them? the general attitude of majority of the ppl there is pro pak...how can we change that? we must act before its too late.


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## Sykora (Aug 8, 2006)

It is a gross injustice to blame the government for _anything_ and _everything_ that goes wrong. India has too large a population, and is too soft-hearted to impose rules like that which China did. Unless India makes a gigantic quantum leap in technology, living standards for the masses aren't likely to rise. But this leap is not likely to happen, because if there's any development, the US will get there first. 

Take, for example, the satellite recently launched by the ISRO. It disintegrated over the Bay of Bengal some few seconds after launch. 4 _billion_ rupees up in smoke. What is the necessity for that when people are starving? There are far better uses for that money. If the money was devoted to more mundane things, the population would feel more motivated to do the right thing, and avoid corruption.

Right now, I feel that the US is a better place, and I'll stand by that opinion.


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## mAYHEM (Aug 8, 2006)

The main problem is people{even myself} know their Rights but not their Duties.


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## mediator (Aug 8, 2006)

I agree with @esumitkumar....But cant see why no mention of bangladeshi influx is there?? Cant u see how much bangladeshi immigrants are there in delhi alone? Forget abt Bihar etc.
If population of india is 1 crore than in that more 10000 are bangladeshi immigrants. Because of these stupid nomads......rape cases,thefts,bribery etc and situation in bihar and west bengal etc is deteriorating.
Govt is doing nothing for it!! And man cant see why it is having big debates on pesticide containers like PEPSI etc. It is doing nothing to ban ALCOHOL/pan masala/cigarretes etc which cause more harm and permanent disease like cancer etc. Yea pepsi shud be banned too. Thus we need literate leaders who can raise their voice for the real cause.
So many terrorist attacks in India delhi blasts on Diwali I think u all firgot it+akshardham+mumbai serial blasts+many more+sacking of Indian embassy in unethicak way. But what India is saying ? -> Peace,peace and peace! Stupid Indian leaders! They all shud be  killed and then we'll have real peace. I think if israel was in our place then paki wud have been already be toast!! And during this govt u can see alone how much penetration the terrorists have done in armed forces alone. All we can experience is violence everywhere in this UPA RAJ !!
Thus u an see how much backwards India will remain if thing like this continue and leaders like Arjun Singh keep on cropping up. Its because of ppl like us because of which India is surviving. But we dont need just SUrvival. Do we?



			
				sujithtom said:
			
		

> What we see of India today is not the effort of the goverment but the Indians itself. The government is corrupt for ages and has contributed very very less to India.


Contributed? How can u say so? They only deteriorated thing. The only person I know who held India's repte to sky is "Atal behari Bajpayee" and dont forget Abdul Kalam.


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## arunks (Aug 8, 2006)

india blows


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## Nemesis (Aug 9, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Thus u an see how much backwards India will remain if thing like this continue and leaders like Arjun Singh keep on cropping up. Its because of ppl like us because of which India is surviving. But we dont need just SUrvival. Do we?



Just curious - how have you aided the survival of a country with a billion people?

Calling Bangladeshi immigrants stupid nomads is extremely condescending in my opinion.  Sure they don't belong here and their influx needs to be controlled but "stupid nomads" is a very extreme term.  Also, what Israel is doing is absolutely retarded.

Those wondering why India not as developed as the US, consider these:

1. The United States was formed well over 200 years ago
2. During World War II, while other countries took a lot of damage, the US rose to power because other than Pearl Harbor, the war wasn't fought on US soil.

When the US was already strong enough to be a major force in WWII, our nation was still under British control.  Yes, a burgeoning population has slowed our economic growth but we're still growing at a rapid rate while countries like the US are experiencing a slowdown.

It's wrong to assume that only Indian politicians are corrupt - even politicians in the US are corrupt.


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 9, 2006)

Well if a country like India has got politicians such as Mulayam Singh,Mayawati,Lalu in their Parliament then how will the country be developed.Imagine a situation where Mulayam Singh or Lalu becomes the Prime Minister of India(I can't stop laughing) but the truth is it can happen in India.Some of the ministers in India has criminal record but still noone is stopping them from entering into the Parliament.


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## mAYHEM (Aug 9, 2006)

Nemesis said:
			
		

> Just curious - how have you aided the survival of a country with a billion people?
> 
> Calling Bangladeshi immigrants stupid nomads is extremely condescending in my opinion.  Sure they don't belong here and their influx needs to be controlled but "stupid nomads" is a very extreme term.  Also, what Israel is doing is absolutely retarded.
> 
> ...


 I agree.
U.S after 60 years fromm formation was even worst than India.The problem is we want the progress of India to be lightning fast,to some extent it has been.Most of the progress has been made in last 20-30 years.


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## mediator (Aug 9, 2006)

Nemesis said:
			
		

> Just curious - how have you aided the survival of a country with a billion people?
> 
> Calling Bangladeshi immigrants stupid nomads is extremely condescending in my opinion.  Sure they don't belong here and their influx needs to be controlled but "stupid nomads" is a very extreme term.  Also, what Israel is doing is absolutely retarded.
> 
> ...



How do u think the natio is being survived because of us?? Imagine if all ppl in the country were corrupt. Who wud obey laws? Who wud pay taxes? Who wud send their children to army? And if the situation were to be like this.....how many IT company u think wud have entered INDIA? Why do u think the situation in bihar is deteriorating? And lack of governance is there? LAck of IT companies there? Everyone wud have been thinking of himself then.
We think of our nation. But do the ministers do? Only votes matter to them the most.

Well calling bangladeshi immigrants like that is not extreme when they keep on doing illigal things here.  Do u know how much unsafe areas with bangladeshi encroachments is? Have u ever been in any one area? Do u know how rape cases, murders alone have been commited by bangladeshi's here alone? And how in numbers these nomads have tied up with Laskar e teiba and all jihadi groups? Have u ever read reports from top military brass?

I dont think even the time taken by US to become so advanced will be sufficient for INDIA to attain the same status. How much u think India is developed today? U live in a metropolitan. Have u ever been to any remote area? Just any? There may be few exceptional cases. BUt what I mean is these areas are far from advancing to status of metropolitans. And as the population + development in metropolitans increase the influx from all the neighbouring countries and stated will rise to seek employment and better civic amenities. Because of which problems of water and electricity will further deteriorate , more unemployment will be there and thus more murders/thefts/rape cases etc.

Thus rural areas will remain like that if this situation persists. People there will remain ignorant and rulers like raja bhayia, papu yadav will rise again n again telling all sorts of lies to ppl their to become their heroes and gain power.

I know abt development of USas u stated but do u know how much developed India got in last 15 yrs ?? It cud have been better if all states were rising parallelly and there was support from Indian leaders too. I saw a major devlopment in India during "Vajpayee's" Era.........but all I see now is violence everywhere.

U urself stated that war wasnt fought on US soil. BUt war is bein fought on Indian Soil for tha last 20 yrs or more and still India is advancing. It cud have been much better if Paki wud have been given an ultimate response ending kashmir problem. U know how much India spends to protect Kashmiri's? U know how little revenue comes from kashmir as compared to other states? U know much economical and manpower loss terrorists are causing to the nation? But what leaders are doing? PEACE,PEACEPEACE!! While pakis are laughing on us because of this.
Israel created a heck of scene their because it 2 soldiers were captured or killed. But what India does? On average 1 Indian soldeir is killed I think each day on the kashmir front alone. And still what all govt does is announces a package of 1 lakh for poor soldier's family and thats it. I hope u getting the picture. If u have anyone from ur family in army then u wud know.

And what Israel is doing is not retarded. Why dont u call Iran retared for saying things like "that it will destroy ISrael" publicly. I appreciaTE Israel for showing such guts. Being so small it is keeping its terrorist neighbours to their knees. Israel was the only nation that provided timely supplies of weapons to India at time of KArgil. U forgot that ...didnt u?
I know it shudnt kill innocent civilians....but why dont u say the same to  hizbollah and all the terrorists. After all they started it first.

If war breaks out between India and pakistan because of pakistan dropping bomb on India and 1000s of civilians dying.....will u ask Indian army not to kill innocent people in Pakistan? Yeah Indian army will not kill innocents there and will do everything to prevent that, but it wont bother also if innocents are killed. In a war this happens and u cant deny the reality.

Accept the fact, India willremain backwards if things like this continues. DO feel proud and happy after such incidents of reservation,mumbai blast etc and govt doing nothing for it?


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## Sykora (Aug 9, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> It cud have been much better if Paki wud have been given an ultimate response ending kashmir problem. U know how much India spends to protect Kashmiri's?



I wonder what you'd say if Pakistan _had_ given an ultimate response, that it would not settle for anything less than a complete tranfer of Kashmir to Pakistan. More fighting?

The same can be said of India. Indians feel that Pakistan is stubbornly not surrendering. I suppose Pakistanis would think the same of us.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> While pakis are laughing on us because of this.



How do you know? They probably want to stop the fighting as much as we do.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And what Israel is doing is not retarded.



Oh? They're targetting Hizbollah attack stations, regardless of whether the splash damage kills civilians. This isn't retarded?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I know abt development of USas u stated but do u know how much developed India got in last 15 yrs ??



There were people poor then. There are people poor now. If we can launch satellites, no we are not developed.


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## mediator (Aug 9, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> I wonder what you'd say if Pakistan _had_ given an ultimate response, that it would not settle for anything less than a complete tranfer of Kashmir to Pakistan. More fighting?
> 
> 
> The same can be said of India. Indians feel that Pakistan is stubbornly not surrendering. I suppose Pakistanis would think the same of us.
> ...



I cud make a little of what u r trying to say! neways lets go....
How do u think Pakistan will give ultimate response? It lost 3 battles to us and now is stinging us like mosquitoes. It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man. So is taking path of cowardice and attacking from behind.

I never mentioned of Kashmir's surrender, but the terrorist activities associated with it and its consequences. Neways u said it.......interesting........so lets talk abt it too. 
U say India thinks pakistan will surrender kashmir. U know in last major battle which India won....it occupied half the pakistan! Forget abt kashmir. But it then returned it away because of UN intervention. My dear India only hopes that PoK is returned back. India also offered to pakistan to make Pok as permanent border and setle kashmir dispute. But they didnt listen. Only pakistan dreams that India will surrender Kashmir. As for India it has the capability to get back PoK whenever it wants. India can do it in less than day. I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces. But it needs govt orders for that.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.


Yea enough were killed! But were american civilians were too killed? Were their building damaged? Was their homeland damaged in anyway except the soldiers killed? I think u didnt get the picture !!  

Its very basic of civilians killed in war. Thats why nobody wants war. If it thats simple the n there wud not be kashmir problem in first place. Think abt it! If pakistan nukes or India nukes will it kill armed forces only?
I donno why are u so much against Israel. But if u think differently then u'll see that if Israel be behaving like these hizbolah terrorists then the whole of lebanon and all wud be toast already !! It is doing maximum to ensure minimum civilian casuality and all armed forces do so except US u can say.

I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?

Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.
U can say that external image of India is rising, it is getting on ther verge of development. 
But what abt internal image? What abt rural areas and farmers commiting suicide each day?
See the picture clearly. These are 2 different things!!


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## Sykora (Aug 9, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.



I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.

Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ . 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?



No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites. (If you don't get my point about satellites, see my first post.)



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man.



What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces.



Not at all. If India mounts a major attack on Kashmir, they will take it, as you say. But then, as you also say, the Pakistanis, being unable to beat India in a 'fair battle', resort to terrorism and will use their Nuclear Capabilities to hit India where it hurts most -- The civilian centers. If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.

All nuclear capable countries know that all it takes to start WW3 is one strike. One bomb dropped in the wrong place. India knows this as well as anyone else, so in effect, it _can't_ retake Kashmir.


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## Venom (Aug 9, 2006)

having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy


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## Sykora (Aug 9, 2006)

Venom said:
			
		

> having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy



Granted, but that growth is too concentrated. What I mean is this.

Those people who get past school and university are those who are responsible for growth. What is happening is that this group of people are being trained in very specialized areas to increase their knowledge.

However, not enough effort is being done in getting the majority of people to this level. For that to happen, technology is needed. I'm afraid that leads to a catch-22. :\


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## ilugd (Aug 9, 2006)

As far as i see it, i think the chalta hai attitude is the biggest problem. How many of us have interfered and tried to correct people who are lazy, corrupt or unfair. Unless each one of us takes it upon himself to cajole and correct people to make better and efficient use of their time in a honest and (atleast partly) selfless way) India is going to keep hobbling along in the same old rut of redtape , corruption and indifference/injustice. 

Some fool said once, ask not what your country has done for you. Ask what you have done for your country. Can any of us answer that? 

I am calling that guy a fool, because I for one cannot answer that question.


----------



## Ultimate Z Fighter (Aug 9, 2006)

Definately


----------



## mediator (Aug 9, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.
> 
> Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ .


Agreed! But plzzzzzz not like arjun singh's way.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites.


Agreed!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.



Bhai y did u bring love in between? Neways thats what I said Pakistan is stinging us from behind and is engaged in proxy war. And our stupid leaders dont do anything even after so many attacks in India, with so many ppl dying. Each year atleast 100 ppl are killed due to terrorist strikes and many jawans die.
Tell me which is better : Continuing the present scenario with more than 100 ppl dying each year and govt doing nothing or striking their nuclear installations,removing the fear of their nukes and then dealing with these mosquitoes. Yea I know paki may use nukes. But it will be for once n over . But if it does use , then my friend I fear Pakistan wont be visible on world map. No more deadly strikes will be there in India.
Let them get the real impulse of India's aggression.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.


Hahahaha this was nice. Neways if pakis use nukes...then believe me not even US will be able to save pakistan. Their game will be over. Neways I think there's not much time left when India will be developing its own missile shield.


----------



## Satissh S (Aug 9, 2006)

ahh. . 
India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here and also i cant tell otherwise as its _our_ country as none of us will tell, well except for a few annoyances like ignorant politicians its fine as its now. 

Maybe we should look to help people by donating something or somepart of our earnings to places such as cancer institute etc., rather than debating here 

btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends


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## Sykora (Aug 9, 2006)

Satissh_S said:
			
		

> India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here



That's a biased view. If you're rich, you can have equivalent freedom anywhere.



			
				Satissh_S said:
			
		

> btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends


...


----------



## Satissh S (Aug 9, 2006)

That is not, freedom can be got from satisfaction, not necessarily richness. A self-sustained life == freedom. self-sustenance != being_rich.


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## Sykora (Aug 9, 2006)

In today's world, you can buy almost anything.


----------



## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 10, 2006)

No  body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time . The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America . indians can survive in any condition . And after  20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay


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## Sykora (Aug 10, 2006)

You're proud of your country, and that's a good thing. Now let's see then...



			
				ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
			
		

> No  body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time .


*coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.



> The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America .


That was then. During WW2, the US were only beginning to come into their strength. Things have progressed a long way since then.



> indians can survive in any condition .


Hardly. Indians are, after all, only human, like everybody else.



> And after  20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay


Perhaps, but most certainly not sure.

Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.


----------



## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 10, 2006)

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars . 

Jai Hind


----------



## mediator (Aug 10, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.





			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> *coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.



coughs*
On contrary, I think u dont keep check on reality!
And the reality is Indian airforce is the best in the world...i.e NO 1... not by quantity but by techniques and quality. I think u dont read army reports and news papers. In therecent Indo-US joint air excercises......US pilots experienced embarrasement and inferiority and when they saw the techniques of Indian pilots and that too in MIGs ...forget about Sukhois and Mirages.
One american captain himself said that we need to do more. 
And as far as experience is concerned Indian armed forces do have more experience than any other nation's armed forces. We have deserts,snows and all sort natural calamaties taking place in India. And at that time only armed forces increase their experience.
Yea I agree as far quantity is concerned India is in top 5....believe me!

Indian Navy also enjoys the almost the same repute as airforce but is not the best.Same for Indian army.....but size of Indian army is way greater than US.

And dont think India doesnt have anything far superior to US. 
We have the DEADLY brahmos missiles christened "fire and forget missiles".



			
				ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
			
		

> by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army
> 
> well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .


Completely agreed!


----------



## Sykora (Aug 10, 2006)

> by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army


I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?



> visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield


That was 35 years ago.



> No army in world can do it .


That's a short-sighted statement.



> Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .


That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.



			
				*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force said:
			
		

> The USAF is the largest and most technologically advanced modern air force in the world, with over 9,000 aircraft in service and about 352,000 men and women on active duty.





			
				*www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/7-828.asp said:
			
		

> The US have the best air force in the world...



Actually, Israel has the best airforce in the world.

I freely admit that The indian military is among the best in the world. I also freely admit that it has a very good chance of becoming the _best_ military in the world in about 10 or so years. I am also saying that such is not the case now. Moreover, it shouldn't be that way. Do you know what Pakistan's National Budget looks like?

Let me show you :
60% - Defence
36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
4% - Human Development

btw, these figures are about 2 years old.

Certainly this is a very drastic situation. While India is not near as bad as this, there are better uses for money going into defence.

US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
1) Their's is a  fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.

2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.

Once again, I'll say. I'm not saying that India is not a very strong country. As far as I know, it is. What I _am_ trying to say is that there are also other strong countries, some a bit stronger than India is.


----------



## Third Eye (Aug 10, 2006)

India is the 12th richest countey in the world surpassing russia n austraila.


----------



## mediator (Aug 10, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> That was 35 years ago.


Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.
What @ssdivisiongermany1933 meant was.... that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind. And US cudnt do it today  also with advanced weaponry. I hope u got it now. Neways I shudnt have to write it......u shud have understood such an easy point.

And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?


Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so and u say hesitent? Neways US sent its troops first and when its dead soldiers counts started increasing then only it urged Nato allies to step in..........It also asked India....I hope u dont know that !  i wonder what u wud have said if India was also in the same line with NATO allies then. And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone. If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already. But still US pledges support to that terrorist country. What UN is doing? If such an organization existed in real world then there wud be no violence like such. UN is just for name. Wake up!!
And besides if US is that powerful why did it need help frm other countires on IRAQ?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.


So u saying Indian army did not gain any experience then?? We were 300 yrs under british rule....didnt we learn ENglish? I think that was only +ve development under british rule.....like abolishing caste system,purdah,child marriage and promotion of women education etc etc!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
> 1) Their's is a fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.
> 
> 2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.


Agreed! And India cant achieve such status unless there is no interference from politicians......but who'll correct them and bring us outta that misery and badluck......thats a different debate!
But still indian economy is rising. An american businessman and head of some company  himself stated that " Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Let me show you :
> 60% - Defence
> 36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
> 4% - Human Development
> ...


And please dont post old statistics. We are talking abt latest developments and so please do post about latest statistics of advancements. We are not comparing the mights of the country that used to exist 2 or 10 yrs ago !! 
My point is please read military reports actively and not once in 2 yrs!! 

And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts. U r the only one who is getting famous here and getting embedded in everyone's post for corrections.


----------



## Sykora (Aug 11, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.


I resent that remark. I am an Indian, but I have travelled the world and am trying to bring that knowledge to bear. We are having a philosophical debate, let us both try to refrain from personal attacks.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind


Granted.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry.


On what basis do you say that?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.


Opinions are anything but static. They keep changing as the information available changes. Israel is the world's most targeted nation. They have many open enemies, and must protect themselves. This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world. However, they do not have the money to spend on exhorbitant budgets like the US do, also, they cannot spend on military research. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so


Iraq was a mistake. I agree with that. I was talking about the military execution of the campaign, not the reasons for it. If UN backing had been there, more force would have been used.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone.



The UN Security council has 5 permanent members, of which only one is US. If you'll remember, UN backing was withdrawn because France and Russia refused to comply. It is not completely controlled by the US. Talks are on to get India and Japan a permanent seat, but frankly, I don't have much hope.



> If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already.


The UN has obligations to _all_ member countries, including India _and_ Pakistan. This means it cannot isolate Pakistan so easily, because then, by the same token, it must isolate India, and that's not too easy. Terrorists are a nation unto themselves. They give up their allegiances when they resort to terror. They may say that they fight for such a cause, but the country leaders do not share their views. If General Musharraf had openly admitted that he advocated the terrorist attacks on India, then the Indian army would have crushed them a long time ago, as you have pointed out, they have done before. However, the Pakistan government condemned the attacks on India, so they don't have any obligation to the terrorists. The point being blown out of proportion is that many terrorists are mingling in Pakistan. They may as well be in India, but they feel that they are being wronged by us, so they take extreme action.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!


Things cost less, we pay less, but we also earn less. It balances out. Why do you think many young professionals want to work overseas? Because the pay is more, and they have more money to spend here, where things are cheaper. That is changing though, as you said, the Indian economy is doing much better.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And please dont post old statistics.


Give me evidence to suggest that these figures have changed drastically in the last 2 years.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts.


eh...sorry.


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## Third Eye (Aug 11, 2006)

man US destroyed iraq and you think US can't defeat pakistan.many iraqis are happy with us coz they get rid of talibanis.US can defeat pak easily if india allowed US to fight from our side.


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## Venom (Aug 11, 2006)

And I thought US and Pak have an alliance!


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## Sykora (Aug 11, 2006)

US's involvement with Pakistan started off as a friendly agreement to counterract the Indian friendship with Russia during the Cold War.
Besides, India and US did just cement a Nuclear Deal didn't they?


----------



## paul_007 (Aug 11, 2006)

NO ,NO , NO america is NOT BETTER THAN "INDIA"


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## mediator (Aug 11, 2006)

Ahhhh! I'm quoted......I'm pleased!


			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I resent that remark. I am an Indian, but I have travelled the world and am trying to bring that knowledge to bear. We are having a philosophical debate, let us both try to refrain from personal attacks.


Chillax No personal remarks here.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> On what basis do you say that?


Basis? Us soldiers are dying day by day there, funds are being spent on armed forces stationed in IRAQ. Does US has that much money & precious soldiers to waste? It cudnt even complete one of its aim...either of getting oil or capturing OSAMA being so advanced militarily,technologically. Do I need to explain more? 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Opinions are anything but static. They keep changing as the information available changes. Israel is the world's most targeted nation. They have many open enemies, and must protect themselves. This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world. However, they do not have the money to spend on exhorbitant budgets like the US do, also, they cannot spend on military research.


So Isreal doesnt have money huh? And they cant spend on military research? I ask u on wat basis u say that? I told u to read army reports or atleast read from newspapers or TV news channels.
Ur statement is contradictory. Israel being the most targeted nation needs to develop technologically advanced weapons and does so. i think u really dont read news. If it stops doing so...it will be toast I think. Israel doesnt have enough manpower but it has technology and advanced weapons. And does spends a major amount of money on military research. Because of that it has become one of the biggest arms suppliers to India also.And thats where the major amount of its money comes from. Please refer to "Reuters" and other reliable sources for detailed enlightenment.

Neways u dont think India is targeted also? If Israel is targeted by small terrorists, then India is targeted by the father of terrorists -> "Pakistan". I think Israel was formed at the same time when India was partitioned and got independence. So India has also been fighting terrorism and continous wars since then. Israel and India are both on the same front, facing same problem, since same era. So u cant say Israel is better just because its most targeted....India is equally targeted if not by OSAMA then by LET and mujahedins and jaahil jehadis. Atleast Israel has open US backing. But same is not true for India where US stands equally for that terrorist country too.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world.


U said airforce first. Now u say Military. Did a day changed statistics and ur opinion? Now please dont say army and airforce are same thing! 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Give me evidence to suggest that these figures have changed drastically in the last 2 years.



In last two years both pakistan and India have increased their defence spending with India almost doubling its defence bugdet. 
I know the acedemic and human development budget of PAki willremain constant as they dont have any other industry other than terrorism. Now dont say you have travelled there also and that also has changed. 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> The UN Security council has 5 permanent members, of which only one is US. If you'll remember, UN backing was withdrawn because France and Russia refused to comply. It is not completely controlled by the US. Talks are on to get India and Japan a permanent seat, but frankly, I don't have much hope.


Hmmmm.....you talk like scientist who needs proof for his theory and then only will believe. Now please dont ask examples....Unexplained phenomenas in India and Indian yoga gurus are big examples.
And what cud UN do if France and Russia supported it? Did Un do anything for poor Vietnamese? or for India except condemning the attack when it was attacked by pakistan on Kargil? Did UN allow IRAQ operation or stopped US from attacking IRAQ? France and Russia were against it! So why cudnt US be stopped? Why is it that if US attacks afghanistan to curb terrorism then its OK, but not OK when India tries to push itself in beyond Line of Control? Why is it that US can take unilateral decisions on IRAQ and nobody can stop it? Why is it US dropped atom bombs on Japan and didnt get international isolation and so called league of nation was speechless? Only 1-2 days were remaining for japanese surrender and end of world war then such misery? 
If you really have travelled then I wudnt need to answer such an absurd and obscure topic like "Might of UN". Paallllllleeeease Wake up! Do read news and travel little.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> The UN has obligations to _all_ member countries, including India _and_ Pakistan. This means it cannot isolate Pakistan so easily, because then, by the same token, it must isolate India, and that's not too easy.


Why cant it isolate Pakistan easily? Just because US backs it? This again gives example how much UN is dependent on US! All the world knows about Pakistan now and even condemned it from atatcking India like that on KArgil and making statements like that it will use nukes if India attacks.
Father of paki nukes (AQ KHAN) has been found sharing nuclear secrets with IRAN. How can world trust such nation? What else evidence UN needs isolate Pakistan? Yu have travelled much....may be you can tell me!
And why will it isolate India? and "by same token"? What token dood? and what has India done for facing isolation? You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland? India has setup hospitals in war torn  afghanistan and IRAQ, Helped vietnamese similarly......even cures pakistani citizns in its hospitals for free, initiates peace process each time even after another failure, donated such huge money package to Nepal and other neighbours in times of crisis...rescued Inonesians and thai people and srilankans at time Tsunami........LIST IS ENDLESS! Is that India shud get isolation for???? Enlighten me!


Indians ppl making money @1 cent show their business skills. And thats why foreign companies wanna do business in India because of reliability and good business. 
Yea Indian economy is doing better but doing much better in BJPs time when violence was low. Neways Indians go abroad for making money .....agreed! But earning money there and spending here is different thing if u'll notice! Indians earn less in India and spend less with less prices of commodities. If u'll see that ratio wise then AMericans earn more....spend more too because of high prices of commodities. But still yeah Indians save less n comparison. AGain thats an internal problem for India as we discussed earlier.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> eh...sorry.


Agreed! Keep quoting me!! I like that.


----------



## digitizen (Aug 11, 2006)

this is one topic which i always wanted to talk about . certtainly india is the better one . i din go through all the above posts . but here is my deal.

               Sick of everyone talking america has developed a lot with in few years . who developed it native americans ???? a big no it was already developed spaniards and euopeans who settled there developed the country . where as the native americans never stood a chance . and talkabout standard of living being better than india . i will never agree with this there are places like harlem in america . india has different cultures so who ever rules the country has to take all this into consideration and dont forget we have different laws for different religions in certain things . 

                                    we have varied culture within a single state so talk about the whole country you find one culture in kanyakumari and a totally different culture in the north . 
                                        so any sarkar which comes into power should take all this into consideration . with all this problems and backlogs india has developed a lot . and india is the best place to live in this world .


----------



## Sykora (Aug 11, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Basis? Us soldiers are dying day by day there, funds are being spent on armed forces stationed in IRAQ


What were we talking about? I had to go back about 10 posts to find out  You said that the US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala even today with advanced weaponry. And I asked you the basis for that statement. When did Iraq come into the context?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So Isreal doesnt have money huh?


Not as much as the US. Neither does the India.

What basis? Here : *www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/armies/default.asp . These are current figures. Open the American, South Asian, and Middle East pages and look at them side by side. The only column where India is larger than US is population. Well...look at the statistics yourself. One thing you can see is that Israel spends about 3 times less than India annually on defence. It has 10 times less GDP. Despite this, it has a higer land power and about twice as many AFV.

Nope, I can't type out the whole thing here. Go look at it yourself. Sorry.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways u dont think India is targeted also? If Israel is targeted by small terrorists, then India is targeted by the father of terrorists -> "Pakistan".



You seem very keen on calling Pakistan terrorists. The country of Pakistan can be called a terrorist state only if the government itself acknowledges and supports the attacks. So far as I know, there have only been headlines of "Pakistan condemns terrorist attacks" and stuff like that. Therefore, at least publicly, Pakistan is not a terrorist state. It has the unfortunate reputation of having had many terrorist within its borders, but it has tried to curb them, sadly without success. So technically, you have just as much right of calling Pakistan a terrorist state as they do of India. That's why the UN cannot isolate Pakistan alone. We are just squabbling over the same piece of land.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland?


Excuse me? What happened to the "Chillax"?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Indians ppl making money @1 cent show their business skills. And thats why foreign companies wanna do business in India because of reliability and good business.


Foreign businesses want to do business in India because labor is cheap. That is what the whole outsourcing jazz is about. Why pay an American if you can get the same job done by an Indian at a far less salary?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Why is it that US can take unilateral decisions on IRAQ and nobody can stop it?



Why indeed? Because if anyone stops the US, they will feel its displeasure most keenly. Let us say, for sake of argument, that India tries to stop the US from going to war. They even are willing to attack the US to stop them. What will US do? Not only will it bring the full force of its army to bear, it will also fight by information warfare. All American companies will immediately cease contacts with India. American companies will withdraw merchandise from the Indian market. They will fire all Indian employees. Thousands will be left jobless. They will seize the assets of Indian companies outside. They will block foreign trade to India.

This is obviously a worst case scenario. But you must realize one thing. No single country alone can hope to attack the US, and win. Only many countries together can do that, and that itself is an uncertainty.



			
				digitizen said:
			
		

> this is one topic which i always wanted to talk about .


Good. Talk then, and make sure you have some fun while you're at it.



			
				digitizen said:
			
		

> certtainly india is the better one . i din go through all the above posts . but here is my deal.


*sigh* I'm not going to argue with you if it means that I have to repeat everything I've said already.



			
				digitizen said:
			
		

> i will never agree with this there are places like harlem in america


Definitely, there are places like Harlem in US. But not as many as in India.

As far as living is concerned, there are basically different sets of problems in India and US. It's just a question of which set of problems you'd rather tackle.


----------



## mediator (Aug 12, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> What were we talking about? I had to go back about 10 posts to find out You said that the US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala even today with advanced weaponry. And I asked you the basis for that statement. When did Iraq come into the context?


Why did u go all the way back 10 posts? If u had read my post correctly u wud have saved urself of such burden. I didnt say "US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala"......read it again! I just gave comparison and that US cudnt complete even one of its aim of IRAQ or OSAMA still !



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> What basis? Here : *www.strategypage.com/fyeo/how...es/default.asp . These are current figures. Open the American, South Asian, and Middle East pages and look at them side by side. The only column where India is larger than US is population. Well...look at the statistics yourself. One thing you can see is that Israel spends about 3 times less than India annually on defence. It has 10 times less GDP. Despite this, it has a higer land power and about twice as many AFV.



On the top of that page somewhere below "armed forces of the world".....itself is written "Data current to 2002-2003"!! ANd its about to be 2007!!  Again I beg u to read news papers and updated miliary reports. I say it again n again but u still dont consider my simple request. I ope i dont have to repeat. Likewise I can direct u to page 30 yrs ago.....will consider that as news??



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You seem very keen on calling Pakistan terrorists. The country of Pakistan can be called a terrorist state only if the government itself acknowledges and supports the attacks. So far as I know, there have only been headlines of "Pakistan condemns terrorist attacks" and stuff like that. Therefore, at least publicly, Pakistan is not a terrorist state. It has the unfortunate reputation of having had many terrorist within its borders, but it has tried to curb them, sadly without success. So technically, you have just as much right of calling Pakistan a terrorist state as they do of India. That's why the UN cannot isolate Pakistan alone. We are just squabbling over the same piece of land.



Hmmm.....seems ur a paki fan! There was a separate thread on this one after 7/11 mumbai attacks. But nobody there seemed to be interested to debate with me.  Neways If a kidnapper/murderer/raper says he is innocent what will u do? Allow him to leave even if u have ample evidence against him??
Neways not Im only keen the world is keener to call it a terrorist nation. All the terrorist are majorly trained in pakistan under ISI support. Even US has evidence for it....will u ask the source now? Read newspapers and TV channels. U travelled much of world? Then travel to pakistan too if u have guts ? And if u cant travel there tell me a simple for y u cant or dont want to! A woman doctor was raped in Pakistan and what Musharraf said? I think u didnt read this one! Go ahead open old newspapers and read it!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Foreign businesses want to do business in India because labor is cheap. That is what the whole outsourcing jazz is about. Why pay an American if you can get the same job done by an Indian at a far less salary?



Again u mixed up thing! Working and spending in one country is different from working in one and spending in another. i wrote that....u didnt read that I think. Do americans work in India?? If yes, how many? Indians are given equal wages compared to Americans in US. I shudnt be telling u this....coz u travelled far and wide. My friends uncle is in US and earns $5000 pm as compared to $2000 on average for an american. So indian wage cheaper then?
U shudnt have mixed outsourcing with cheap labour! If Indians are given cheap wages abroad they wont go in first place. Why do they wanna go abroad? Higher wages? Think!
U shud say americans wanna do business in India because of cheaper labour, hardworkers and skilled talent. 
Bush himself warned amercians to work hard or "Indians and CHinese will get ur jobs".



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Why indeed? Because if anyone stops the US, they will feel its displeasure most keenly. Let us say, for sake of argument, that India tries to stop the US from going to war. They even are willing to attack the US to stop them. What will US do? Not only will it bring the full force of its army to bear, it will also fight by information warfare. All American companies will immediately cease contacts with India. American companies will withdraw merchandise from the Indian market. They will fire all Indian employees. Thousands will be left jobless. They will seize the assets of Indian companies outside. They will block foreign trade to India.


U urself indirectly are telling how useless UN is then.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> This is obviously a worst case scenario. But you must realize one thing. No single country alone can hope to attack the US, and win


Russia can.......and i can bet on it. but it doesnt have the economy to support it.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> *sigh* I'm not going to argue with you if it means that I have to repeat everything I've said already.


Similarly u read my posts from 7/11 thread first or i'l have to repeat the whole thing for calling paki a terrorist nation.


----------



## Sykora (Aug 12, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> What @ssdivisiongermany1933 meant was.... that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind. And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry.





			
				sykora said:
			
		

> On what basis do you say that?


That's what you said. What is this about Iraq? If you're referring to Iraq when you say "do it today", be more specific.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I just gave comparison and that US cudnt complete even one of its aim of IRAQ or OSAMA still !


Now who's not reading? I said US's objective was Saddam. And they did get Saddam.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Again I beg u to read news papers and updated miliary reports.


Since you're having so much fun disputing statistics I provide, you give me the current numbers, then we'll talk.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Hmmm.....seems ur a paki fan!


Nonsense. I am a citizen of the world.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways If a kidnapper/murderer/raper says he is innocent what will u do? Allow him to leave even if u have ample evidence against him??


No, but only if the judge is unbiased. In dealing with affairs between Pakistan and India, you call neither India, nor Pakistan, an unbiased judge.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If Indians are given cheap wages abroad they wont go in first place. Why do they wanna go abroad? Higher wages? Think!


Now you think again. I meant businesses want to do business _in_ India. Because the standard of living is lower here, things cost less here, so companies can charge less here. That does not apply to Indians working overseas. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U urself indirectly are telling how useless UN is then.


To some extent yes, because that's what happens if you have a super power -- It doesn't listen. But answer this : Why doesn't India right now, invade Pakistan and recapture the land? As you said, they have ample evidence against them. Why are they not doing it?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Similarly u read my posts from 7/11 thread first or i'l have to repeat the whole thing for calling paki a terrorist nation.


I wasn't talking to you. I have enough trouble going back over the posts in this thread, let alone going to another thread.


----------



## cyberpyrate (Aug 12, 2006)

The problem is entirely the people of india.

it is us who vote for the government and to a extent we help corruption rise.How many times have we tried to  bribe a traffic cop to avoid the fine and the hassle of going to the 'THANNA' to get our liscence?


----------



## Sykora (Aug 12, 2006)

I suppose you could say that. What we should really try to do is to create a situation where following the rules is more profitable than being corrupt.


----------



## akshayt (Aug 12, 2006)

Avg standard of living is higher in America.
Your standard of living is higher in India. This means that educated and well off people are better off in India while America's common man is better off than India's common man.

eg: An engineer earns say 100,000$ over there. India : America PPC ratio is 1:8, what you buy in India in Re.1 comes for Rs.8 over there on average or maybe Rs.5, not fully sure.
Where an engineer over here can earn even 18lac an annum, that is more compared to 5-6lacs in America. The thing is that the in those 5-6lacs he can afford a home etc where in India 18lac is not enough to buy a home confortably, you loose years of money where as in America you only loose 1yrs' money


----------



## QwertyManiac (Aug 12, 2006)

Quote fights are read only by the quoters


----------



## mediator (Aug 12, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> Now who's not reading? I said US's objective was Saddam. And they did get Saddam.


Do u really think US objective was Saddam? THere were no WMDs found in IRAQ. Then why is it US is not freeing Saddam? Even his sons were killed in IRAQ. Why is UN not doing anything now? Why American forces are still stationed  in IRAQ?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Since you're having so much fun disputing statistics I provide, you give me the current numbers, then we'll talk.


Well i cant spoon feed u by searching the net and giving u details or links. Why dont u read news papers or TV channels? Is it something so hard I urged u for? If u want current numbers go ahead to the feedback sections of military sites. 
You are asking like a child who want all the work done before last day of   examination and doesnt want to read throughout the year. Well if u wanna link I can make a website and post a link to that. But will need a lotta time for that.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Nonsense. I am a citizen of the world.


Great!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> In dealing with affairs between Pakistan and India, you call neither India, nor Pakistan, an unbiased judge.


Cool! U r the first one in the whole forums who is openly defending terrorists! What affairs? Kashmir ? I already talked abt it! and what affairs can be there if Paki keeps on breaking each treaty like the one it broke by attacking on kargil?
So many attacks in India.....mumbai blasts,airplane hijack (kandahar),airplane hijack of US (9/11). delhi blasts on diwali, blasts in Srinagar, parliament atatcks...list is endless. All have evidence pointing to pakistan. India just asked Pakistan to destroy these militants and even gave location for it......like giving step by step point to a child who is not listening and teacher doing all effort. And still u favour Pakistan? U love Pakistan?
And u didnt answer mah question. Given all the funds,high wages and all the pleasures of life will u still settle in Pakistan with ur family?




			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Now you think again. I meant businesses want to do business _in_ India. Because the standard of living is lower here, things cost less here, so companies can charge less here.


I also wrote that if wages are less here comparatively, then prices of commodities are also less here and by same margin. Didnt u get that? If 1/300 part of a wage of an american is spent on buying a chocolate then the same is true for an Indian in India.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> That does not apply to Indians working overseas.



But Indians still get same wage as american counterpart in US. Why didnt u quote this one? PLEASE QUOTE me completely and not just the points in which u may find a flaw. See .......I'm covering u completely. 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> But answer this : Why doesn't India right now, invade Pakistan and recapture the land? As you said, they have ample evidence against them. Why are they not doing it?


Well thats because of the stupid leadership in our country. See.....how Pakistan was when attack on parliament was held. Musharraf's face was all covered with sweat in each interview after that. Yea I agree US tried to interfere and asked India to excercise restraint. But not only US asked .....the whole world....every nation in the world urged INdia at that time to calm down. If US alone wud have asked....I dont think India wud have calmed down. Even India's biggest friend Russia urged India to calm down at that time. 
But seriously pakistan shud have been toast at that time....atleast terrorists wud not have guts or support to strike mumbai,delhi,srinagar like that then. 

Do u really think India listens to US? Well during present era I cant say statically during this stupid govt.....but India previously....India didnt signed proliferation treaty,didnt send troops to Iraq and many more. US knows India can find alternatives therefore wants Indian company. It cant pressurise India in anyway. Well it can pressurise the UPA govt coz all the leaders are stupid and cowards.

And Please try to QUOTE me completely!



			
				QwertyManiac said:
			
		

> Quote fights are read only by the quoters


Atleast tell who's winning? Huh...just kidding!


----------



## QwertyManiac (Aug 12, 2006)

Who cares who wins, we eventually are at a loss here.


----------



## gxsaurav (Aug 12, 2006)

This thread is still going...lol

Anyway, since I m Indian, so India rox, however one thing for sure 

USA girls rock , we need open minded community like that in India too. Despite of having the largest population in the world, one most important thing sex education sux here

Tax system is much better in USA then India, people there want to pay taxes on time, it's like their duty, but in india nobady cares, except for the educated ones, however Tax rate in India is far better then in USA, they just exploit


----------



## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 12, 2006)

US is enjoying it's technology power stolen from Nazi germany after defeat of hitler .Even russians are better than their counterpart Americans .they launched first space station "Mir" and USA didn't even understand what space station is . The american Apollo programme was headed by Nazi scientist but was kicked away by US after programme was a sucess . Russians defeated Nazis otherwise the we could be have writing and speaking the german language and a United country was there in europe i.e "Germany" .The current cruise missiles are the descendent of V2 made in germany and there is lot of german technology .Americans didn't created anything they all got from others . and INdia much better than America .America is digging it's grave by irritating Arabs . Arabs showed their power in 9/11 . though i don't support it . US is fool . even in vietnam it was kicked very badly . US a looser . did it got USama and able to destroy al-qaida .


----------



## Sykora (Aug 12, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Do u really think US objective was Saddam? THere were no WMDs found in IRAQ. Then why is it US is not freeing Saddam?


Their _official_ objective was Saddam. Evidently he is being held for a trial on war crimes  I am not saying what they did was right, nor am I trying to justify what they did. I'm just stating that for whatever reason, they did take Iraq. This proves their military might to some extent.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Well i cant spoon feed u by searching the net and giving u details or links


That's a very convenient way to say that you can't find any. I did research on the net and found links to, although not very recent, recent enough for our arguments. You are dismissing them as if they have changed drastically within the last few years. The changes are gradual for the most part, except in extreme situations like when somebody develops the atom bomb for the first time.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> But will need a lotta time for that.


I'll wait.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Cool! U r the first one in the whole forums who is openly defending terrorists!


That's the same way it will seem to you. I am trying to put both sides into perspective. If you're so biased that you can't listen to a semblance of a neutral view, then I can't convince you, and won't bother trying. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> All have evidence pointing to pakistan.


But India isn't doing anything is it? Is it trying to convince the UN or other major powers that Pakistan is a threat? Is it bringing up more firepower to the loc in order to prevent further attacks by pakistan? Why did it calm down after every world country told it to? If the evidence is clear, why should it excercise restraint?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And u didnt answer mah question. Given all the funds,high wages and all the pleasures of life will u still settle in Pakistan with ur family?


Of course not. Because I'll be going to the US 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I also wrote that if wages are less here comparatively, then prices of commodities are also less here and by same margin. Didnt u get that? If 1/300 part of a wage of an american is spent on buying a chocolate then the same is true for an Indian in India.



An american in america spends the same fraction on a particualr commodity as an Indian in India. But if someone earns his money in america, while living in India, then that person is significantly better off than an indian in india. This is why many NRIs are returning to India after retirement. Because they have a large amount of savings _in dollars_, which when changed into rupees, is an enormous sum, approximately 46 times as much.



			
				QwertyManiac said:
			
		

> Who cares who wins, we eventually are at a loss here.


Actually we are all winners, because we broaden our horizons on an _extremely_ murky topic : international politics.



			
				ssdivisiongermany1933 said:
			
		

> US is enjoying it's technology power stolen from Nazi germany after defeat of hitler .Even russians are better than their counterpart Americans .they launched first space station "Mir" and USA didn't even understand what space station is . The american Apollo programme was headed by Nazi scientist but was kicked away by US after programme was a sucess . Russians defeated Nazis otherwise the we could be have writing and speaking the german language and a United country was there in europe i.e "Germany" .The current cruise missiles are the descendent of V2 made in germany and there is lot of german technology .Americans didn't created anything they all got from others . and INdia much better than America .America is digging it's grave by irritating Arabs . Arabs showed their power in 9/11 . though i don't support it . US is fool . even in vietnam it was kicked very badly . US a looser . did it got USama and able to destroy al-qaida .


The Germans were brilliant, no doubt about it. However, no matter which means they use to get their technology, US does get it. That indicates certain mental ability.


----------



## nix (Aug 12, 2006)

^^i agree....survival of the fittest.


----------



## mediator (Aug 12, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> This proves their military might to some extent.


Yeah to some extent only. They can only take down only small and powerless countries like vietnam and IRAQ. They have no guts to take down North Korea which openly threatens them. But India took down a competitor 35 yrs ago which is no match for us now.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> That's a very convenient way to say that you can't find any. I did research on the net and found links to, although not very recent, recent enough for our arguments. You are dismissing them as if they have changed drastically within the last few years. The changes are gradual for the most part, except in extreme situations like when somebody develops the atom bomb for the first time.


Seems like u have a lotta time to search endlessly on the net to prove ur word in debate regardless whether the pages are obsolete or by some person instead of armed forces themselves.
Its the same case when 2 mathematicians A and B are debating on some formula and  A is constantly trying to tell B to learn the existing facts and theorams first and solve latest problems first........ and B is giving A the links in books giving obsolete examples and saying these are the real things.

Dood I just cant understand why u r so stubborn about the links? Is ur whole personal world based "Online"? Cant u read latest military reports or atleast read newspapers/Tv channels. I tell a very popular newspaper "HINDU".....it gives army reports once or twice in a week. Read it.
Is it something hard I asked u for?
I dunno what will u do if u debate in face to face in real world. Will u give links to websites then also? Is there hope that u wud try to get updated details from reliable sources and say that this updated news from this newspaper on this this date?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I'll wait.



I thought so...u have all the time in the world to wait! Then keep waiting ....I'll make a link to my website...when I'll have time to satisfy ur "link" wish.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> That's the same way it will seem to you. I am trying to put both sides into perspective. If you're so biased that you can't listen to a semblance of a neutral view, then I can't convince you, and won't bother trying.


Why? I'm trying to convince u. Trying to spoon feed u with every fact available to me!! And telling u again n again like 8 times now to have references like reliable news sources.
Neways U going US right? Try to convince americans too!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> But India isn't doing anything is it?   Why did it calm down after every world country told it to? If the evidence is clear, why should it excercise restraint?



Again i'll have to spoon feed u with some facts! U think India didnt do anything? Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now? India dont need to do anything except take down militants coz as u see pakistan spends major part on training its jaahil jehadis. As a result pakistan's economy as can see is on downswing as in a terrible mess. A US scholar predicts Pakistan will disintegrate in next 10-20 yrs. What will pakistan do when it wont have economy to back military?
U can urself compare how much miser and poor pakistan has become since 1947 and India rising constantly. And u think India isnt doing anything. India is intelligent and knows where it'll hurt pakistan the most.  



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Is it trying to convince the UN or other major powers that Pakistan is a threat?


It has already proved to whole world and doesnt need to prove to puppet organization to do so. Neways yeah it has proved to US....so indirectly UN to.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Is it bringing up more firepower to the loc in order to prevent further attacks by pakistan?


U urself saying "further attacks by paskistan"....and u need unbiased view? Neways Pakistan cant attack India now....but India is doing enough to thwart the proxy war Pakistan is engaged in. Now dont ask what proxy war is!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Of course not. Because I'll be going to the US


Given Pakistan as only choice and no US. Then y wont u? U seem to like pakistan and trying hard to defend pakistan like a paki national with all absurd link and needing continous spoon feeding with facts.
Ur saying like that paki foreign minister who says paki searched the house of daewood and others only when India gave his hideout.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> An american in america spends the same fraction on a particualr commodity as an Indian in India. But if someone earns his money in america, while living in India, then that person is significantly better off than an indian in india. This is why many NRIs are returning to India after retirement. Because they have a large amount of savings _in dollars_, which when changed into rupees, is an enormous sum, approximately 46 times as much.


Agreed! But again I told u thats a different issue.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> The Germans were brilliant, no doubt about it. However, no matter which means they use to get their technology, US does get it. That indicates certain mental ability.


Agreed! US is a thief! Germans and Russians are orginals !!


----------



## Sykora (Aug 12, 2006)

You seem to be using the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a lot. Yes, I do read newspapers. I have seen army reports. What I haven't seen are detailed statistics. That kind of thing is found only in a) a library b) On the internet. Which one will you choose? No newspaper will give statistics to answer the question "Who will win an all out war between India and Pakistan?" So don't tell me to go read the newspapers/watch TV. I've done all that. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now?


You said Pakistan broke a treaty when it attacked Kargil. Why doesn't India mount a military offensive back instead of harrassing pakistani nationals, who _may_ be innocent?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Seems like u have a lotta time to search endlessly on the net to prove ur word in debate regardless whether the pages are obsolete or by some person instead of armed forces themselves.


1) Searching for information is not hard at all, I can't believe you've spent so much time and still not learnt to type search phrases in google. I got my statistics within seconds of typing "Who has the largest army in the world?" in google.
2) Do you really think The Armed forces themselves would release accurate data about their own operations? Grow up. It's giving your enemy intelligence on a silver platter.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> It has already proved to whole world


Just answer one question : What is being done about Pakistan?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U seem to like pakistan and trying hard to defend pakistan like a paki national with all absurd link and needing continous spoon feeding with facts


I already addressed this.


----------



## mediator (Aug 13, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> You seem to be using the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a lot


Thats coz u leave me no choice but to give all the facts for ur statements and even to prove Pakistan a terrorist country....which is a fact itself now!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> What I haven't seen are detailed statistics.


Then us must not be reading properly. On contrary Newspapers do give facts and news channels too. Didnt u read the article that came 2-3 times now in several news papers comparing Indian and PAki military might? Now dont say which newspaper and when.....coz that will be "Spoon feeding again"!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> That kind of thing is found only in a) a library b) On the internet.


Of course not! Where does news originate from? Tv channels give live news! And from this only it goes to internet. On contrary, Library doesnt give u news! It is best for refreshing history etc.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You said Pakistan broke a treaty when it attacked Kargil. Why doesn't India mount a military offensive back instead of harrassing pakistani nationals, who _may_ be innocent?



My GODDDDD!! Do u READ my posts correctly? Or just start writing after seeing the line which interests u the most?


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And why will it isolate India? and "by same token"? What token dood? and what has India done for facing isolation? You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland? India has setup hospitals in war torn afghanistan and IRAQ, Helped vietnamese similarly......even cures pakistani citizns in its hospitals for free, initiates peace process each time even after another failure, donated such huge money package to Nepal and other neighbours in times of crisis...rescued Inonesians and thai people and srilankans at time Tsunami........LIST IS ENDLESS! Is that India shud get isolation for???? Enlighten me!


Seen this before? Does this refreshes u? Are trying to test my patience? Cant u read properly or having some problem reading?


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Again i'll have to spoon feed u with some facts! U think India didnt do anything? Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now? India dont need to do anything except take down militants coz as u see pakistan spends major part on training its jaahil jehadis. As a result pakistan's economy as can see is on downswing as in a terrible mess. A US scholar predicts Pakistan will disintegrate in next 10-20 yrs. What will pakistan do when it wont have economy to back military?
> U can urself compare how much miser and poor pakistan has become since 1947 and India rising constantly. And u think India isnt doing anything. India is intelligent and knows where it'll hurt pakistan the most.


This was from my previous post? And u still say why India doesnt attack pakistan? Do u ask same question twice in ur classes also?

And India treating badly to paki citizens? "Jal" paki band got famous here. "Paki national" got first prize in "Great Indian Laughter Challenge"......Paki nationals treated for free in India. What de heck..again IM "Spoon feeding u a lot"! Why dont paki nationals get famous there....why cant they stay outta India. On one hand they wanna get famous here and on other wanna destroy India. Are u still unbiased? Are u still a paki fan? It seems ur not an Indian after all......So much "Spoon feeding" i done and still u cant wake up. Indians are smart and intelligent who can analyse quickly and learn such facts. But I have to post more than twice for u!
Neways give me one example where a Paki national was harrased in India!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I got my statistics within seconds of typing "Who has the largest army in the world?" in google.


Hmmm.....Did I said anything different dear? Do u have problem reading what I write? I myself said India has second largest army in world....well u can find this on Net. U have enough time I see. Search for this also then.
Neways what did u find? Who has the largest army? and dont say US! That wud be hilarious!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Do you really think The Armed forces themselves would release accurate data about their own operations?


U definetily have reading problem. I think thats why u read once in 2 yrs like ur link. I didnt say data abt their OPERATIONS!! That was hilarious! Even a child can make that out from this post of urs! OPERATIONS......MY GOD....nice one!!  

Go back again n read carefully line by line......all my posts. Then U'll save me time from rewriting the already posted stuff again.




			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Just answer one question : What is being done about Pakistan?


U travelled far n wide. Isnt it? U tell? Ur answer lies in my current post which also gives a link to my previous post. Because of your inablity to read carefully I had to write that  twice for u! Are u making me write that again? That will be thrice....u'll break all the records then!! Are u an Indian .... coz no Indian has such record!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I already addressed this.


U didnt need to!! Neways are trying to avoid something??

Chill dood read my posts carefully line by line, letter by letter and save me from rewriting!!

E-PEACE!!


----------



## Sykora (Aug 13, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Thats coz u leave me no choice but to give all the facts for ur statements and even to prove Pakistan a terrorist country....


I leave you no choice...but yet you do not give the facts, calling it "spoon feeding". 



			
				sykora said:
			
		

> So don't tell me to go read the newspapers/watch TV. I've done all that.





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Then us must not be reading properly.


If I don't get the information you say is there, then I'm not reading properly, is that it?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> coz that will be "Spoon feeding again"!





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So much "Spoon feeding" i done


First you say that you aren't spoon feeding me. Then you say that you are spoon feeding me. Make up your mind.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I myself said India has second largest army in world....well u can find this on Net. U have enough time I see. Search for this also then.


I already did search. About 3 posts back. I found that you are wrong. Without searching for yourself, you're disputing my facts.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Who has the largest army? and dont say US! That wud be hilarious!


I have been saying in almost every one of my posts that the US has the most technologically advanced army in the world. Who's not reading? And why would it be hilarious? Because you don't agree?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now?





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways give me one example where a Paki national was harrased in India!


Well?



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Are u still unbiased?


Yes.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Are u still a paki fan?


Never was. You're jumping to conclusions. Evidently if I am unbiased, I must be a paki fan, because it is heresy to speak as if pakistanis are moderately blameless.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U definetily have reading problem. I think thats why u read once in 2 yrs like ur link. I didnt say data abt their OPERATIONS!! That was hilarious! Even a child can make that out from this post of urs! OPERATIONS......MY GOD....nice one!!


Why are you hinging on the word "Operations"? I merely said that the military of any country, will not give up to date statistics because it could be used against them. The only complete statistics you find are those which are a couple of years old. Instead of telling me your views on that, you harp on about the word "operations".



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Indians are smart and intelligent who can analyse quickly and learn such facts. But I have to post more than twice for u!


Yes, you are posting everything twice. Even thrice, in some places. But why? Because you have nothing new to say. You keep telling me to go read the newspapers, I say that I have done that and you don't believe me. What else can you do but post the same stuff over and over again?

Anyway, I think we have exhausted the possibilities of this discussion. It's evident that I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Why don't we leave it that? It's been nice arguing with you on this topic, mediator.

Until the next Fight Club debate,


----------



## mediator (Aug 13, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> Anyway, I think we have exhausted the possibilities of this discussion. It's evident that I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Why don't we leave it that? It's been nice arguing with you on this topic, mediator.
> 
> Until the next Fight Club debate,


Leaving so soon? Cmon lets argue a little more. R u avoiding something?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I leave you no choice...but yet you do not give the facts, calling it "spoon feeding".



Dood....How much more facts u want for calling paki a terrorist country?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> First you say that you aren't spoon feeding me. Then you say that you are spoon feeding me. Make up your mind.



Huh? When did i say That I'm not spoon feeding u? Quote thta text of mine if it exists!! Waiting.......
I am constantly "Spoon feeding" u dear....like a teacher spoon feeding to a boy who doesnt wanna read properly or listen properly 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> If I don't get the information you say is there, then I'm not reading properly, is that it?


Do I have to post thrice now to make u see it? Please read ....pallleease.....u'll decrease Indian repo in US like this when u go there.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I already did search. About 3 posts back. I found that you are wrong. Without searching for yourself, you're disputing my facts.



Ur facts? U published that page? And given wrong facts? After ur constant request I did search a lot but didnt find any page except urs! So I think its really ur fact! As u urself said no army gives info abt its "OPERATION".




			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I have been saying in almost every one of my posts that the US has the most technologically advanced army in the world. Who's not reading? And why would it be hilarious? Because you don't agree?



Here we go....now u have classification problem toooooo!! ANd did i say nething different about US army? I think i'm debating with child now!
US doesnt have largest army! Now do I have to "spoon feed" u  with definition of largest army? and its difference with technologically advanced?
U debate with me quite endlessly....which I appreciate and after so long u say such dumb stuff and making me rewrite again n again.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Well?



What well? Give an example i said! U dont have a word to support to support ur false statement like harrasing paki national....MY GOD! India initiates peace process each time and u say that yet again?

Well i give u example where Indian nationals are harrassed. The news is 2-3 days old from Times of India. Indian civilians who accidently cross border and miltary men who r captured there....meet with 3rd degree torture. There eyes balls are taen away and punctured.....then their linbs r destroyed one by one and finally the man is shot dead! 
That kinda treatment is not given even to paki military men.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> mediator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone can make out that ur not Indian after all after such debate! and still trying to defend terrorists. Nice....keep defending PAkis! U'll leave peacefully then in US.

Neways give me some points where u may keep urself unbiased for Pakis!! 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Why are you hinging on the word "Operations"? I merely said that the military of any country, will not give up to date statistics because it could be used against them. The only complete statistics you find are those which are a couple of years old. Instead of telling me your views on that, you harp on about the word "operations".


Agreed...So u shud have said data statistics instead of "OPERATIONS". Military may give a few details about the type of weoponry it possesses but will not ever reveal abt its operation! Now u have writing problem toooo? 

Please I urge u to read correctly first, Define ur thoughts , classify them correctly and write them correctly!! 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Yes, you are posting everything twice. Even thrice, in some places. But why?


Coz u r asking same thing more than twice. I wrote that...u didnt read that again? I cant answer anything different for a same question being asked again n again. And ur not quoting me completely either! I told u to do so!

That wud help u read properly and will save u to question samething more than twice now!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You keep telling me to go read the newspapers, I say that I have done that and you don't believe me.


How can I believe u. U write so much contradicting points to ur statements. Already posted a few of ur contradicting pts in my previous posts. 
U say military doesnt reveal its military statistics and u post that link....the only link that exists on web. And that doesnt look professional either. May be  its made by u all alone!


Neways quote all my unquoted points from all my previous posts in ur next post. U'll find some more questions to ask! I know u wont be able to question them but still try to quote them and write "Agreed" after that!


----------



## Sykora (Aug 13, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> R u avoiding something?


Yup. Arguments that fall on deaf ears and go nowhere.

Do you read the newspapers? : *www.hindu.com/2006/08/12/stories/2006081208000100.htm



			
				sykora said:
			
		

> mediator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> What well? Give an example i said! U dont have a word to support to support ur false statement like harrasing paki national


Looks like you are not reading my posts either. First you say that paki nationals are facing much trouble and isolation at airports and everywhere. Then you say that aren't. You are contradicting yourself. I have your own word for it.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Coz u r asking same thing more than twice.


Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again. I am not asking you more than twice for the same thing. I am asking you for new information, which you are not giving, tellling me to go find it for myself. Why can't you give me the information? Is it so hard? As you said, if it does exist, then surely you can tell me where. All newspapers have websites, and search engines. Look them up.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Anyone can make out that ur not Indian after all after such debate! and still trying to defend terrorists. Nice....keep defending PAkis! U'll leave peacefully then in US.


I thought we agreed not to make personal remarks. Evidently you didn't read, or forgot.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> How can I believe u.


Because we both want the truth. If you are not willing to believe me, no matter how much I say, well...I told you we exhausted the possibilities of this argument.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> The news is 2-3 days old from Times of India. Indian civilians who accidently cross border and miltary men who r captured there....meet with 3rd degree torture. There eyes balls are taen away and punctured.....then their linbs r destroyed one by one and finally the man is shot dead!



Here is the search page, find the article. I couldn't find it. : *timesofindia.indiatimes.com/
If indians know that Pakistan is an unruly country giving horrendous treatment to indian nationals, what are they doing crossing the border?


----------



## mediator (Aug 13, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> Looks like you are not reading my posts either. First you say that paki nationals are facing much trouble and isolation at airports and everywhere. Then you say that aren't. You are contradicting yourself. I have your own word for it.



DO u term extreme checkup of Paki nationals at airports etc as "harrasment"? My GOD!! When u'll go to US and will checked up extremely...will u call Indian embassy there and say that ur were harrassed? Again ur facing classification problem!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I thought we agreed not to make personal remarks. Evidently you didn't read, or forgot.


And what's so personal in this?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> If indians know that Pakistan is an unruly country giving horrendous treatment to indian nationals, what are they doing crossing the border?



ANd who do u think these Indians are? Rich,literate ppl? They basically village people who ignorant of such stuff! Cmon man dont u know such basic thing! Ur saying like Indians wanna cross the border intentionally. 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again. I am not asking you more than twice for the same thing.


So u agree u are asking twice for the same thing.Atlast u confessed!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again.



Well I'm! What new will I say? Shud I change the topic and say something different?  Well I'm not saying samething again...but answering ur stupid same questions again and again!
Well if u ask 2+3 = ? then I cant answer that differently each time can I?Can you? Well u can ask that q again n again like ur doing throughout the posts.....Like why ISnt "India isnt attacking pakistan then"!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Why can't you give me the information? Is it so hard? As you said, if it does exist, then surely you can tell me where. All newspapers have websites, and search engines. Look them up.


Again? What abt paki being terorist? Again "spoon feed" you now? U r saying like give a website that proves 2+3=5, And u wont believe until I do so!
Hilarious!	



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Do you read the newspapers? : *www.hindu.com/2006/08/12/stor...1208000100.htm


The report says "Unconfirmed reports said seven people, including two Britons, were arrested "some days ago" in Karachi and Lahore."
If the above incident happened do u know what wud have happened to Pakistan! Analyse ur thoughts now and classify them. If the same thing was to be happened for India instead UK and US...Do u think that musharraf freak wud tell anybody?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I told you we exhausted the possibilities of this argument.


Well this argument may have more possibilities. But u urself is having reading,writing,classifying problems and cant question something different. Thats why I think u r asking samething again n again as I replied to all ur posts already!

Read,Write,classify correctly and Save me from rewriting by doing so. Thats all I ask from u!  Is it really that hard?


----------



## Sykora (Aug 13, 2006)

You really think International politics is as straightforward 2+3=5 don't you? Or all those other analogies you've given like Mathematicians and Teachers and Students and babies and all that. It's not. If that's the dream you're living in, wake up.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> ANd who do u think these Indians are? Rich,literate ppl? They basically village people who ignorant of such stuff! Cmon man dont u know such basic thing! Ur saying like Indians wanna cross the border intentionally.



Finally we come to the point which I've been trying to make. Instead of spending so much on defence and offence, the indian government should devote resources to educating these people, who have the capacity to make such mistakes such as cross the border into a hostile country.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Again? What abt paki being terorist? Again "spoon feed" you now?


No. This time, I spoon fed you. You told me about an article in the India Times, so I found the site, and asked you to find the article, because I couldn't. You still haven't found the article. I am trying to present my arguments clearly, giving proper evidence. You asked before once how I would argue in a real debate. I would print my evidence and hand it over. You would not get anywhere if you said "Go read the newspapers, it's there everyday", or "The conclusion is obvious, all evidence is clear". If you think it is clear, you must back up your claims with evidence. As you have not done so with hard facts, instead saying "It's sooo obvious" or "My GODDDDDD you don't read anything", I cannot believe anything you say. Instead you are stressing that I am incapable of reading, classifying my thoughts and putting them down in writing, making you write the same thing again. Let me say it again, and next post quote this point : I think the reason you are posting the same thing over and over again is not because I am asking the same question more than twice, but because you have nothing more to say, no more evidence *to present here.* 

I will admit that there is a lot of terrorist activity happening in Pakistan, and that there are many terrorists living in Pakistan. What I do not accept is that the Government of Pakistan is openly supporting the terrorist activity. 

I showed you the report, and instead of quoting the entire passage, you quoted the one sentence which had the words "unconfirmed". Do you watch TV? Did you see the CNN-IBN report which said that 1 of the 24 arrested in Britain was an Indian working for Jet Airways? Evidently not. Keep an open mind. It may look like I'm supporting Pakistan, but I'm not. I've admitten in many places that the Indian approach to certain issues was good or intuitive, but you must have missed them.

I think we have diverted the topic however. This started out as a debate on which was better, India or US. It has turned into an India-Pakistan debate, one which, as you have forcefully pointed out and I have freely admitted, I don't have much experience in.

I believe we were discussing military might. I told you once before that unless there is a huge leap in technology, the military might of different countries usually stay in the same order. Note I said "usually", because I don't know if there are exceptions. At the end of the Cold War, the US had the most advanced military in the world. I showed you statistics about 3 years old that it was still the case at that time. Did you read those figures? It is highly unlikely that the situation has changed drastically in the past 3 years. It has changed, for sure. But not to a very large extent.

Next, to the topic of standard of living. The standard of living for the common man is much much higher in US than in India. Let me give you an example. Go to your kitchen and open the water tap. Would you drink the water? In most cases, no. I know that I can't, or more precisely, won't.
You can however, do this in the US. Literacy is at around 95% in US, with 98% of the population enrolling in primary school. For india, this figure is around 65%.


----------



## mediator (Aug 13, 2006)

Sykora said:
			
		

> You really think International politics is as straightforward 2+3=5 don't you? Or all those other analogies you've given like Mathematicians and Teachers and Students and babies and all that. It's not. If that's the dream you're living in, wake up.


Huhuh ...you telling me that? Atleast 2+3=5 is as simple for ur repeated questions!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Finally we come to the point which I've been trying to make. Instead of spending so much on defence and offence, the indian government should devote resources to educating these people, who have the capacity to make such mistakes such as cross the border into a hostile country.


Well Indian govt is trying to. If it had done that completely than India wud be on top of the world and that too technologically!
But why dont u say abt Pakistan? Why isnt it improving on spending on human development? Terrorism is its only industry! Wud u like to comment on this one? 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> No. This time, I spoon fed you


So u agree that u needed "spoon feeding"....atlast!





			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You told me about an article in the India Times, so I found the site, and asked you to find the article, because I couldn't. You still haven't found the article.





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> The news is 2-3 days old from Times of India. Indian civilians who accidently cross border and miltary men who r captured there....meet with 3rd degree torture. There eyes balls are taen away and punctured.....then their linbs r destroyed one by one and finally the man is shot dead!


Do u need the whole proof online? If the whole content of newspapers is based online...then who'll buy newspapers? That was real childish! I already told the time and the source of the stuff abt Indian harrasment in pakistan! Now u need that online?
Cmon man is ur whole world based online? Dont u goto colleges or schools? Or are u doing correspondence online? Online Online is that all u have to say? Give me this and that stuff online!! HILARIOUS!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I am trying to present my arguments clearly, giving proper evidence


Again hilarious! So many contradicting points, repeated questions and unclassified thoughts u posted.....and at the end u say u presented them clearly! Wow!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You asked before once how I would argue in a real debate. I would print my evidence and hand it over


Printed evidence? hahhhaaa......this was the most nice one! Better than SANTA BANTA jokes! Now I can clearly see how much u must have argued in a real debate!!
Nice one u made my mood! Thanx!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You would not get anywhere if you said "Go read the newspapers, it's there everyday", or "The conclusion is obvious, all evidence is clear".


Ofcourse I WONT say them to read newspapers! Instead I wud bring the cuttings from those newspapers themselves and other reliable resources instead of "Printing Evidence"!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> If you think it is clear, you must back up your claims with evidence. As you have not done so with hard facts, instead saying "It's sooo obvious" or "My GODDDDDD you don't read anything",


MY GODDD! Ofcourse I'll back my arguments....thats why I have given u the source of newspaper and time when it was published! Cant u find that in ur newspapers? Are u lazy? Or u just wanna find everything online on a mouse click?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I cannot believe anything you say.


How can u? When u urslf dont know what u r saying! All ur statements are contradicting! In some u have classification problem like having trouble in differentiating between harrasment and security checking. U urself are so confused how will u understand other people?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I think the reason you are posting the same thing over and over again is not because I am asking the same question more than twice, but because you have nothing more to say, no more evidence *to present here.*


U have reading problem! Thats has become a fact now! instead of "posting" u shud have written "replying" in the above post of urs!
No more evidence.....what do u want? Shud I scan the newspapers and post it here specially for u? That wud be a "total spoon feeding"! I gave u the source and telling u again n again to read it......and confirm me by telling whats written there.....so that I can know that u actually read it!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I will admit that there is a lot of terrorist activity happening in Pakistan, and that there are many terrorists living in Pakistan. What I do not accept is that the Government of Pakistan is openly supporting the terrorist activity.


Does that mean u soften ur stand on Pakistan now? Well if paki govt isnt supporting terrorism then why doesnt it crushes LEt and jehadis wanted by US and India? Why ISI has support to these jaahil jehadis?
U gave me some old stuff .......so for u I give some old stuff. I think u'll like it!
*www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives1999/99october19c.html

Read it carefully! Its from Govt of jammu n kashmir itself! Thoughout the post u'll find hand of ISI either initially to some organization or completely to some organizations. U like links so much....so read it now!!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Did you see the CNN-IBN report which said that 1 of the 24 arrested in Britain was an Indian working for Jet Airways?


U got so happy that one was an Indian? What about the rest? Neways the one u called the Indian ws a muslim and I know he must have been brainwashed by these terrorists. Neways this was the first example where I saw one was Indian and I regret that poor guy for having been brain washed by those jaahil jehadis!   
Anyways U say that ur Indian...and ur trying to prove such a thing? Neways Pakistan is doomed! Will be disintegrated within 10-20 yrs.....so dont worry about India not attacking pakistan! 

I know ur a pakistani.....thats why u dont have such information. Coz freedom to speech is banned in Pakistan ,all the news media is controlled by authority,shows u what they tells them to show and u can get real news only from internet that too might be filtered! Whenever a military dictator comes in Pakistan....he's cheated by his successor.....who in turn is cheated by his successor. Pakistan is famous for such history! And only Pakis are the one who candare to use Indian forums....coz they dont get much info in their own forums. Like I said what Pakistan has to offer Except terrorism?


Neways u didnt quoted on this one? Here



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I got my statistics within seconds of typing "Who has the largest army in the world?" in google.





			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I already did search. About 3 posts back. I found that you are wrong. Without searching for yourself, you're disputing my facts.





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Here we go....now u have classification problem toooooo!! ANd did i say nething different about US army? I think i'm debating with child now!
> US doesnt have largest army! Now do I have to "spoon feed" u with definition of largest army? and its difference with technologically advanced?
> U debate with me quite endlessly....which I appreciate and after so long u say such dumb stuff and making me rewrite again n again.



So please tell who has the largest army now and tell who has second largest?



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I've admitten in many places that the Indian approach to certain issues was good or intuitive, but you must have missed them.


Never! I have quoted with "Agreed" if I found the post OK! read it again!
But dont quote with Agreed!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I think we have diverted the topic however. This started out as a debate on which was better, India or US. It has turned into an India-Pakistan debate, one which, as you have forcefully pointed out and I have freely admitted, I don't have much experience in


Yeah thats correct! The forum members must be abusing both of us for that!




			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I believe we were discussing military might. I told you once before that unless there is a huge leap in technology, the military might of different countries usually stay in the same order. Note I said "usually", because I don't know if there are exceptions. At the end of the Cold War, the US had the most advanced military in the world. I showed you statistics about 3 years old that it was still the case at that time. Did you read those figures? It is highly unlikely that the situation has changed drastically in the past 3 years. It has changed, for sure. But not to a very large extent.


Yeah at the end! but before that Soviets were ruling.....History books tells us that!  3 yrs are enough for major ugrades to take place! Around 1999 the Deal for about 120 sukhoi-30 MKi's and 300 T-90 battle tanks,admiral gorshkov  was finalised and around 2002 they were about to be induced! Belive me statistics have changed! even LAC's are about to be induced+some indegenously built tanks and how to forget the deadly "Brahmos". The whole articles used to come once a weekend in "HINDu" and i used to Njoy it!
And now the world is gathering for the next Indian deal.....several countries like US,Russia,France,Germany etc lining up to showcase their best weapons,planes,tanks etc. 
I pity paki's. As after extreme begging paki's are trying to get obsolete F-16's....while the americans are offering us F-18's and the hornets! And how can u forget the AWACS for which CHina was ignored and India approved!

I know the overall might of India will remain lesser than US untill these stupids politicians stop interfering! But u can see CHINA ad how fast it is building is military might at par with US. Even it has the economy to back it and is getting better and better and americans are fearing this.



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Next, to the topic of standard of living. The standard of living for the common man is much much higher in US than in India. Let me give you an example. Go to your kitchen and open the water tap. Would you drink the water? In most cases, no. I know that I can't, or more precisely, won't.


Not in most but some cases! But i tell u goto US and tell me if a litre of PEpsi is cheaper or a litre of water! U have to pay to get clean water, for a natural resource....while u can get it for free here and in plenty or at much cheaper rates. Thats why u'll see so much water is wasted in India.

Play Holi in US and tell me the tax amount u'll recieve. 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You can however, do this in the US. Literacy is at around 95% in US, with 98% of the population enrolling in primary school. For india, this figure is around 65%.


Yes, totally agreed! But again I say thats because of the stupid ppl in present govt. See how much literacy got improved in NDA govt itself. Anyways Its not far when India wil also experience the same as US!

Neways one member here said "In US u use paper and and India water". Do u like US for that? Thats so stinking. Infact I'll say whites are the most stinking ppl in the whole world who bath once in a week and use paper.
And western type toilets even are soo unhygeinic. I wont explain why!


----------



## Sykora (Aug 13, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> I know ur a pakistani.....thats why u dont have such information.


That's it. I've tried to maintain a semblence of neutrality and open mindedness but you seem to be uber-devoted to your cause. Some call it patriotism, I call it fanboyism. If you don't know what it means, here it is : 



			
				*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy said:
			
		

> "An unkempt, socially awkward, young man who may be perceived as a loud mouthed pseudo-intellectual. Fanboys can be zealously committed to their particular narrow area of interest, to the exclusion and derision of competing or similar products, regardless of their merits. Fanboys are often perceived as possessing a sycophantic devotion to the creators behind the object of their passion. An obsession may be short or long term and, at times, aggressively defended. Fanboys are noted for a very emotional attachment to their chosen subject,. They may readily engage in debates, but will fall back on emotional responses."



Time and time again, I have tried to explain, but you have responded with statements indicating that I am confused, don't what I'm saying, can't read, etc, without really saying anything new.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U have reading problem! Thats has become a fact now! instead of "posting" u shud have written "replying" in the above post of urs!
> No more evidence.....what do u want? Shud I scan the newspapers and post it here specially for u? That wud be a "total spoon feeding"! I gave u the source and telling u again n again to read it......and confirm me by telling whats written there.....so that I can know that u actually read it!


You seem to think that getting the kind of evidence you need is a full research project. I gave you the search engines. I told you to go find the articles. I told you that using the advanced search, I couldn't find the articles you mentioned, because you only vaguely said the date (2-3 days ago) and didn't give me any other information. How am I supposed to go find anything then? You know what the article was, you go find it. Instead you're harping about the difference between posting and replying. You tell me to confirm what you said is in the newspapers. Then I say you're wrong, and you don't believe me. You can't even take the trouble in proving that you're right by finding the articles, no mater how easy I try to make it for you.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U got so happy that one was an Indian? What about the rest? Neways the one u called the Indian ws a muslim and I know he must have been brainwashed by these terrorists. Neways this was the first example where I saw one was Indian and I regret that poor guy for having been brain washed by those jaahil jehadis!


I am not happy that a Jet Airways employee was caught in a terrorist raid. You seem to think I am. I was merely pointing out that there may be terrorists in India also. You refuse to conside anything other than your chosen view. Then you say that he was a muslim and he was brainwashed. How convenient. You can't prove it. Are you trying to start a communal debate?

I am no longer interested in debating with you, Mr. Mediator, since it is obvious that I do not stand to gain anything from listening to your (repeated) views on this topic.


----------



## mediator (Aug 13, 2006)

Oh mannn! So small Post??




			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> Time and time again, I have tried to explain, but you have responded with statements indicating that I am confused, don't what I'm saying, can't read, etc, without really saying anything new.


Hahahah! Sorry Dood I gave u evidence for ur confused & unclassified behaviour! Why dont u accept that? U need evidence? U were given ample evidence!  

And the post abt fanboy.....huh.... sorry I aint read that! Seriously! coz that was outa topic and little big!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> You seem to think that getting the kind of evidence you need is a full research project. I gave you the search engines. I told you to go find the articles. I told you that using the advanced search, I couldn't find the articles you mentioned, because you only vaguely said the date (2-3 days ago) and didn't give me any other information. How am I supposed to go find anything then? You know what the article was, you go find it. Instead you're harping about the difference between posting and replying. You tell me to confirm what you said is in the newspapers. Then I say you're wrong, and you don't believe me. You can't even take the trouble in proving that you're right by finding the articles, no mater how easy I try to make it for you.


Oh MAn ! I told u to go and find that in 2-3 old day newspapers.......And here u r again crying that u aint find that online! Did u really tried to find that in newspapers.....Helloooo..."Times of India" i told u! Again I tell u U dont read properly! I'll complain to ur schoolteacher now! 



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I am not happy that a Jet Airways employee was caught in a terrorist raid. You seem to think I am. I was merely pointing out that there may be terrorists in India also. You refuse to conside anything other than your chosen view. Then you say that he was a muslim and he was brainwashed. How convenient. You can't prove it. Are you trying to start a communal debate?



Hey man! I know mah muslim bros in India wont do such stuff. Ur the one whose creating communal tension now!
And yeah Agreed there are terorists in India too.....but paki terrorists! Classify them dear! UR toooooooo confused!
If there were terrorists from India then Paki wont be visible on world  map in first place!



			
				Sykora said:
			
		

> I am no longer interested in debating with you, Mr. Mediator, since it is obvious that I do not stand to gain anything from listening to your (repeated) views on this topic.



hahahah! Gain?? I didnt know u gain also by debating!.......repeated views? Why dont u confess that u repeat questions and me replying and "spoon feeding ya" more than 3 times now!

OK.....nice debating ya. And please dont ever debate in real world or u'll be made a mockery of!

neways u still aint tell me who has largest and 2nd largest army?+didnt quote mah previous post anyway near 50% too! And do u believe now paki govt's role in terrorism from the fact,link I gave u?
And that "printed evidence" thing...........hahahahaha...........that was too good! Share that on jokes2000.com !

POST again!
EPEACE!


----------



## rajivnedungadi (Aug 19, 2006)

America is better than India because they give their jobs to us


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## mediator (Aug 20, 2006)

rajivnedungadi said:
			
		

> America is better than India because they give their jobs to us



Thats coz Indians are bright and clever enough to take their jobs.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 23, 2006)

right mediator
__________
right mediator


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## the deconstructionist (Aug 23, 2006)

Though your relatives house may be bigger , better and posh. yet it cannot substitute your own HOME. East or West BHARAT is the Best.


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## mediator (Aug 24, 2006)

the deconstructionist said:
			
		

> Though your relatives house may be bigger , better and posh. yet it cannot substitute your own HOME. East or West BHARAT is the Best.



Thats the spirit !!


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## Rollercoaster (Aug 24, 2006)

i think both countries are good.

but the real quiestion is..if u are asked to be reborn then which country will u choose...

truthfully atleast 90% people will choose amarica.

btw can Venice. be added to the list. I love that place in pics. wouldlove to got here one day.


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## rajwansh2003 (Aug 24, 2006)

east or west India is best. 100 may 99 beiman phir bhi mera desh mahan


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## william (Aug 24, 2006)

Three resons
1 Population
2 Corruption
3 inefficient management/government
Another reason is that america got its independance many years before india thats why that country is devloped and we are still in the process of devlopment. and do you think that miexd  pattern economy can also effect the rate of devlopment.


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## esumitkumar (Aug 24, 2006)

Yes I think giving the Railways and Power to Private Sector like Tatas, Reliance will boost the economy . You are seeing urself which is good

Airtel or BSNL?
ICICI Bank or SBI ? etc etc 

But govt's efforts has gone into drain cuz when they want to privatise ..AAI se leke railways se leke bank.... every sarkari babu goes on strike etc as they dont want to work  ..and sarkari company main to kaam aise hee chalta rehta hai...
If the firm become privatised..they will be fired ..thats why all strikes etc 

When will the situation will be improved ?


----------



## ilugd (Aug 24, 2006)

what about the power situation in Delhi? @sumitkumar. It is privatized and still stinks


----------



## Stick (Aug 28, 2006)

*Is America Better Than India*

Never,

They Enjoy Se* while we enjoy LOVE.


----------



## nix (Aug 29, 2006)

America is better than India because they give their jobs to us,
Thats coz Indians are bright and clever enough to take their jobs. 

no, thats coz we indians do jobs they wouldnt and at a cheaper rate. we're hardworking and would work 24/7 to earn some money.


----------



## mediator (Aug 29, 2006)

nix said:
			
		

> no, thats coz we indians do jobs they wouldnt and at a cheaper rate. we're hardworking and would work 24/7 to earn some money.



Thats a wrong notion. Read the previos threads........whole topic was discussed on this in 2-3 pages or more.

American companies in India find work cheaper in India.The softwares developed here are therefore less costly. They find Indian wages in India less costly.
Whereas Indians working in America get equal or more wages than Americans there. Its the Indian quality/skill that attracts them.

If Indians get less wages in America....then why wud they go there in first place??.....wud they survive having less wages and costly commodities there??

So please remove that notion of urs!!


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## santu_29 (Aug 29, 2006)

population population population... hum do hamare sau
mentalitty of the people
no feeling pride in the nation (except on 15th aug n 26 jan)
roti kapra aur makan... as usual
babu raj... i think presidential system is better or do we need a dictator
corruption (mostly resulting due to the above factors)
indian hi indian ki g***d marta hai, the british strength in india was mare 80000(approx), they ruled us using our people not theirs... so
cast n creed... (not again)
divide and rule (best reliable and still working policy)

Mera Bharat Mahan... lol


----------



## spironox (Aug 29, 2006)

Dear All
All the below listed statements are all true facts 

Q. Who is the GM of Hewlett Packard (hp) ?
A. Rajiv Gupta

Q. Who is the creator of Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of the today's computers run on it)?
A. Vinod Dahm

Q. Who is the third richest man on the world?
A. According to the latest report on Fortune Magazine, it is Azim Premji,
who is the CEO of Wipro Industries. The Sultan of Brunei is at 6 th position now.

Q. Who is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world's No.1 web based email program)?
A. Sabeer Bhatia

Q. Who is the president of AT & T-Bell Labs (AT & T-Bell Labs is the
creator of program languages such as C, C++, Unix to name a few)?
A. Arun Netravalli

Q. Who is the new MTD (Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000, responsible to iron out all initial problems?
A. Sanjay Tejwrika

Q. Who are the Chief Executives of CitiBank, Mckensey & Stanchart?
A. Victor Menezes, Rajat Gupta, and Rana Talwar.

Q.* We Indians are the wealthiest among all ethnic groups in America, even faring better than the whites and the natives.
There are 3.22 millions of Indians in USA (1.5% of population). YET,
38% of doctors in USA are Indians.
* 12% scientists in USA are Indians.
* 36% of NASA scientists are Indians.
* 34% of Microsoft employees are Indians.
* 28% of IBM employees are Indians.
* 17% of INTEL scientists are Indians.
* 13% of XEROX employees are! Indians.
*

Some of the following facts may be known to you. These facts were recently published in a German magazine, which deals with
WORLD HISTORY FACTS ABOUT INDIA.
*
1. India never invaded any country in her last 1000 years of history.
2. India invented the Number system. Zero was invented by Aryabhatta.
3. The world's first University was established in Takshila in 700BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the world studied more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda built in the 4 th century BC was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education.
4. According to the Forbes magazine, Sanskrit is the most suitable language for computer software.

5. Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans.
6. Although western media portray modern images of India as poverty striken and underdeveloped through political corruption, India was once the richest empire on earth.

7. The art of navigation was born in the river Sindh 5000 years ago. The very word "Navigation" is derived from the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH.
8. The value of pi was first calculated by Budhayana, and he explained the
concept of what is now k! nown as the Pythagorean Theorem. British scholars
have last year (1999) officially published that Budhayan's works dates to
the 6 th Century which is long before the European mathematicians.

9. Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India . Quadratic equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11 th Century; the largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Indians used numbers as big as 10 53.
10. According to the Gemmological Institute of America, up until 1896,
India was the only source of diamonds to the world.

11. USA based IEEE has proved what has been a century-old suspicion amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless communication was
Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi.
12. The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation was built in Saurashtra.

13.Chess was invented in India .

14. Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health
scientists of his time conducted surgeries like cesareans, cataract,
fractures and urinary stones. Usage of anaesthesia was well known in
ancient India .
15. When many cultures in the world were only nomadic forest dwellers over
5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in Sindhu Valley (
Indus Valley Civilisation).
16. The place value system, the decimal system was developed in India in 100 BC*

*Quotes about India .
We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.
ALBERT ELINSTEIN.
India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend and the great grand mother of tradition. Mark Twain

If there is one place on the face of earth where all dreams of living men
have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India . French scholar Romain Rolland.

India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without
ever having to send a single soldier across her border. Hu Shih
(former Chinese ambassador to USA )

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG, THE LIST COULD BE ENDLESS.
BUT, if we don't see even a glimpse of that great India in the India that
we see today, it clearly means that we are not working up to our potential; and that if we do, we could once again be an evershining and inspiring country setting a bright path for rest of the world to follow.*

-------------------------------


----------



## Rollercoaster (Aug 29, 2006)

Just one thing... so much of the stuff in history has INDIA marked on it.

What happened after that? Why is india not at top anymore? why is hindi(or sanskrit) not the world's local language...etc..etc..etc..


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## mediator (Aug 29, 2006)

@Spironox..........wow man.....thats a great work! Will definitely reawaken the spirit of India in Indians!

@Rollercoster........wanna know what happen after that??
After that mughals invaded India destroyed a lot of scriptures, temples ....fought among themselves and with exisiting rulers etc etc.....goto temples in south and central India...u'll witness it urself....then came britishers who stole diamonds,jewellery from India and took it to Britain.

There is a place I dont remember in South India wher diamonds were once found scattered all over like stones/rocks nowadays. I think few diamonds can still be found there.

If u'll study Indian history in detail u'll find most of destruction was done by Mughals!!

In the past 1000 years of slavery we lost our pride and forgotten who we are and where we come from....a great Empire that used to exist. Some of the things that still exist are Sanskrit,diamonds,intellect (Indians are most intelligent on whole earth)..........but what is missing is support to continue our work! Thats why u'll see Indians at the top of American companies coz they give them support to research etc !


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## ilugd (Aug 29, 2006)

yeah, so the mughals were wimps who destroyed the great indians. What were the great indians doing then? Napping?

Come on guys, get a break. Your chest drumming is obnoxious.

India invading other nations!!! ROFL!!! 

And who the hell is Mr. ELINSTEIN,?

Well, as for pride, it never got anyone anywhere. Pragmatism is better.


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## mediator (Aug 29, 2006)

ilugd said:
			
		

> yeah, so the mughals were wimps who destroyed the great indians. What were the great indians doing then? Napping?
> 
> Come on guys, get a break. Your chest drumming is obnoxious.


Thats such a stereotypical thought!! Now paki terrorists create terror everyday.....how will u describe it?? What will u say? that India is napping??........cmon man!
Ofcors there were fights where Shivaji kicked their a**** a hundred times. But some parts were occupied and some not



			
				ilugd said:
			
		

> Well, as for pride, it never got anyone anywhere. Pragmatism is better.


I dunno abt u....but am proud to be Indian. It just our politicians who keep embarrasing us. As for pragmatism........India was indeed very practical in the past!

Anyways Indians forgetting their tradition is obvious as most of us dont practise sanskrit writing, recital of slokas during pujas, studying vedas and all.
We are so attracted to west that we dont look to our own treasure. Mah bro clearing IIM in first try told me he aint study a single word from todays maths books. All he read was vedic methematics!!


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## uttoransen (Aug 31, 2006)

*Is America better than India???!!!!!!!!*

yes amarica is better than india, there are a thousand reason to that, here are a few:

1) they have one language one religion, english and cristian. that's it. this makes less difference in them, they have a stable country. for the laguage, i would say my first language will be english, second will be bengoli, and then third will be tamil and the fourth will be hindi. this will make disputes, so you can easliy understand why india is so unstable. 

2) the muslim country's border: amarica is not boardering any muslim country's. no fight on amarica's main ground. for india, india is fighting with china, and pakistan. already some fight have been done with the two, lots of resources goes by, and thus you can understand why we are not developing faster.

3) we have people like ministers, the process goes slow by this system. for amarica it's one many mainly, that's presedent, and he can take many decisions that we have to go for parliament. you know bills and all that has to be passed for simple things.

4) people in amarica are effilient genetically, that we can't help, we are genetically unfit than the europians, amaricans, and even these chinese, and jeus, both physically and mentally.

5) over 400 yrs of rule, that's the europians and the mughals, have rulled over us for the last few centuries, and has made us different, and it's in out blood now. we dont' think for the country and we give ourselvs more importance than the country.

6) they are already developed, when we talk of amarica, amarica is already developed, and that's the reason why they are ahead. when we got out indipendence we just started, and amarica was a world power then, that time amarica was one of the two world power, and not amarica is the only world power.

7) then only thing that we are ahead of amarica is our culture. and we are prowd of that, and we should try to maintain that.

the reasons are endless, these will help you to decide why we are lacking behind.


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## mediator (Aug 31, 2006)

uttoransen said:
			
		

> 1) they have one language one religion, english and cristian. that's it. this makes less difference in them, they have a stable country. for the laguage, i would say my first language will be english, second will be bengoli, and then third will be tamil and the fourth will be hindi. this will make disputes, so you can easliy understand why india is so unstable.


huh...I thought America is a democracy!! ISnt it??



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> 2) the muslim country's border: amarica is not boardering any muslim country's. no fight on amarica's main ground. for india, india is fighting with china, and pakistan. already some fight have been done with the two, lots of resources goes by, and thus you can understand why we are not developing faster.


Thats pure crap! Instead I'll say India is not developing faster because of corrupt politicians.....make India dicatotor type for 2 yrs and u'll see the difference. China is also having problems...and rather its having interior problems like tibet and many more. But it has developed so fast...do u know why?? Japan got devastated by nuclear bombs but still emerged as the greatest economical player.
For very development work ministers from Indiago to abroad to see how development is taking place theere and then impose the same here. Do they think our designers and architects arent smart? List politicians'absurdity and obscurity is endless.



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> 3) we have people like ministers, the process goes slow by this system. for amarica it's one many mainly, that's presedent, and he can take many decisions that we have to go for parliament. you know bills and all that has to be passed for simple things.


Agreed....and we need to change this. But how will we kill our own teachers like students of ABVP killing proff.SAbharwal?



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> 4) people in amarica are effilient genetically, that we can't help, we are genetically unfit than the europians, amaricans, and even these chinese, and jeus, both physically and mentally.


I think u consider urself unfit both physically and mentally.....But that doesnt apply to me and all of us. I appreciate ur confession and frankly speaking I consider bengalese as most mentally retarded. Please dont see it as some insult. But most LEFT leaders are from West BEngal and now they even see Greg chappel as "mahisasur" becoase he banned a bengali. Now thats absolutely stupid!
Anyways American companies prefer Indians over every other Race for Jobs. Do u know why? Dont say coz Indians get low wages...coz they wont go to america in first place if they get low wages!!
Indians todays are ruling the world's BRAIN....huh and u speak of opposite?? Its like Arjun Singh whose speaking with all ignorance!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> 5) over 400 yrs of rule, that's the europians and the mughals, have rulled over us for the last few centuries, and has made us different, and it's in out blood now. we dont' think for the country and we give ourselvs more importance than the country.


Again that might apply on u but not on me...........Any one here saying that applies to him that we lost our pride as Indians??
Ofcors every one thinks of himself...but when it comes to the country everyone's above their ego and works for country. There are so many natural calamities in India,so many people dying each day,terrorist strikes.....Did that deteriorate our unity??
Infact I saw Hindu Muslims working together on every Nation Tragedy like Mumbai Blasts etc.
Neways how did the foreign rule make u different....were u born in that era?? So just stop that nonsense.



			
				uttoransens said:
			
		

> 6) they are already developed, when we talk of amarica, amarica is already developed, and that's the reason why they are ahead. when we got out indipendence we just started, and amarica was a world power then, that time amarica was one of the two world power, and not amarica is the only world power.


America took like 100 yrs to get developed and its just 50 yrs for Indian independence and we are on world power map....what do say??And american scientists predict that India will be a deadly power by 2020!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> 7) then only thing that we are ahead of amarica is our culture. and we are prowd of that, and we should try to maintain that.


Absolutely! 50 points for this one!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> the reasons are endless, these will help you to decide why we are lacking behind.


We are not lacking....believe me! Its just our politicians!!
Anyways u say u have more points........Please read all the previous posts and pages of this thread and then tell if u have more pointsss!!

EPEACE!


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## alltime.homie (Aug 31, 2006)

According to me America is better than India for the main reasons being...

1) Like suggested - unity. They don't have 101 castes which divide each and every region in their country. No state is against any sort of religion practiced by anyone else.

2) Youth is self-dependent. Kids there are encouraged to take up part times to build up their pocket money. Hence they become independent. If you were to do the same thing here before you're 19, you would be called "struggling for funds".

3) Government and Law and Enforcement - Behold ! This is the main reason they are paces ahead. They have a very good government which manages the country efficiently, politicians who don't believe that money going into their pocket would do them any good and a very efficient law which bounds by all limits.

If we were to bring in one of these three things, I'm sure that our country would improve by means all ahead.


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## mediator (Aug 31, 2006)

@alltime.homie....good points! But comparing those all with India......u'll see politics and Indian politicians are responsible for these points and Indian backwardness in this regard.

Indians dont follow castes anymore. Ask a child here what is cast...he'll reply u with his surname! The cast is now practised by politicians to gain votes.I dont even knew a person sitting besides me that he was a SC/St untill he told me that he's from reserved category and is scheduled cast! Know one asks now which cast are u from. Believe me!! Its all politics trying to create a divide.
These politicians are the one who are creating divide!! Reservation for ,minority classes,muslims,OBC,SC,St.........I ask u man...is this democracy??

They dont do anything to uplift their(reserved category) primary standards i.e schooling.....and then they expect them to do wonders in colleges, jobs etc!! How can they??
A person who doesnt know how to walk....how can he run in olympics?? 

Think about ur other points ...... all of them are connected with Indian politics and politicians......think abt it......!!!


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## alltime.homie (Aug 31, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> @alltime.homie....good points! But comparing those all with India......u'll see politics and Indian politicians are responsible for these points and Indian backwardness in this regard.
> 
> Indians dont follow castes anymore. Ask a child here what is cast...he'll reply u with his surname! The cast is now practised by politicians to gain votes.I dont even knew a person sitting besides me that he was a SC/St untill he told me that he's from reserved category and is scheduled cast! Know one asks now which cast are u from. Believe me!! Its all politics trying to create a divide.
> These politicians are the one who are creating divide!! Reservation for ,minority classes,muslims,OBC,SC,St.........I ask u man...is this democracy??
> ...



See. This is exactly what I mean. And none of us can entirely say that we don't follow castes anymore. If we're not, why the 33% reservation ? And you are 100% right - politicians use the barrier to up themselves in the community. Basically, all they aim is at growing in the parliament and making a name for themselves - and they don't care how much more they knock down to get it. 

My point about self-dependence isn't entirely connected with politics - think about it. It relates more to the community and society around us. People see us as lowly's if we're to take up a job of delivering pizzas or at pizza hut - precisely the sort of things that kids of the same age in the US do. They become self-dependent and know how to manage themselves and their decisions that way. And here, we're sneered at and jeered at for doing the same - factor that really cracks all encouragement.


----------



## mediator (Aug 31, 2006)

alltime.homie said:
			
		

> And none of us can entirely say that we don't follow castes anymore. If we're not, why the 33% reservation ?


Believe me.......I am totally ignorant about caste systems! I didnt know what kinda surnames belong to which cast and who all are considered inferior. I never asked anyone his surname....coz i dont care. Siilarly in todays era most of the people see the nature of the person,his intelelct etc and no one's bothered about the cast or whateva.

But when this reservation thing started....I began to know what this cast is!! U see the politicians wont let us go of this divide. That what I meant!! And now more n more people are becoming like elders in home who first see cast before marriage!



			
				alltime.homie said:
			
		

> My point about self-dependence isn't entirely connected with politics - think about it. It relates more to the community and society around us. People see us as lowly's if we're to take up a job of delivering pizzas or at pizza hut - precisely the sort of things that kids of the same age in the US do. They become self-dependent and know how to manage themselves and their decisions that way. And here, we're sneered at and jeered at for doing the same - factor that really cracks all encouragement.



To some extent......But u see in India to be self-Independent u need to take permission from parents or break up from their bonds or be having some poor situation.
If u work under the age of 18........others will accuse ur family etc of child labour + you will be treated like child and given low wages. Now this kinda work also requires laws so that teenager can start work and be self dependent and society be accepting it. Think abt it for a while!


----------



## alltime.homie (Aug 31, 2006)

Mediator said:
			
		

> To some extent......But u see in India to be self-Independent u need to take permission from parents or break up from their bonds or be having some poor situation.
> If u work under the age of 18........others will accuse ur family etc of child labour + you will be treated like child and given low wages. Now this kinda work also requires laws so that teenager can start work and be self dependent and society be accepting it. Think abt it for a while!



See that's exactly what I'm talking about. Parents don't give their consent, keeping in mind what the rest of the community would think of them. Although child labour is valid only for those below 15, we really aren't allowed to boost our earnings until we're eighteen or so. Like you said so. There is no law needed. Like in the US, kids can take up part times too and start earning if they really want to. Although politics is involved, what it really comes down to is the mindset of the people down here. As long as they think it's a disgrace to work before you get your degree, there isn't a way to really break free... My parents don't mind what I do unless it affects my studies, and I give two hoots about what the rest of the community might think. As long as more people adapt this way, the mindset that has occupied everyone's minds is going to die down.


----------



## uttoransen (Aug 31, 2006)

*some replies.*

"huh...I thought America is a democracy!! ISnt it??"
that's right, but then they are all cristians, and all speak english, this is less differences.


"I think u consider urself unfit both physically and mentally.....But that doesnt apply to me and all of us." i posted that statement as it's proved, it's in out gene, pure mongolians, and europians are more fit, and it's not the case for us indians. this point is a fact and you must belive it.


"Again that might apply on u but not on me...........Any one here saying that applies to him that we lost our pride as Indians??" i don't know what you are talking, but as far as i know, we bengoly people are the only honest in india, and the rest all are "chor". this you will know, just go to any state govt. office and see how they work. each individual is couroupted. and that was my point.



"America took like 100 yrs to get developed and its just 50 yrs for Indian independence and we are on world power map....what do say??And american scientists predict that India will be a deadly power by 2020!"
once ahead in a race will always be ahead, and you can't do anything about it.



"I think u consider urself unfit both physically and mentally.....But that doesnt apply to me and all of us. I appreciate ur confession and frankly speaking I consider bengalese as most mentally retarded. Please dont see it as some insult. But most LEFT leaders are from West BEngal and now they even see Greg chappel as "mahisasur" becoase he banned a bengali. Now thats absolutely stupid!
Anyways American companies prefer Indians over every other Race for Jobs. Do u know why? Dont say coz Indians get low wages...coz they wont go to america in first place if they get low wages!!
Indians todays are ruling the world's BRAIN....huh and u speak of opposite?? Its like Arjun Singh whose speaking with all ignorance!"


i think you are mentaly unfit, and physically i don't know?
about the left, well they are the most better polititions. they belive in the comusnit thoughts, and it's the best that you got. i don't know what you say confession, as i think you want to say that you are the best in the world, and actually you are nothing. greg chapple is just a simple man, and anydays out polititoins can throw him out, we rule this country, and as a cpm supporter, i can say that am both mentally and physically more fit than you. what do you support, the bjp. what has bjp done so far, what has congress done so far, nothing. after 40 yrs of independence, there was only congress ruling, did it do some good. what has bjp done, these polititaion will never do anything, and they are all the same.


dictator, right, but who. remember, dictators are good for places that has only one people. it will work in japan, or amarica, where people think and do the same. here just you think you will vote some one, and i will vote some one else. dictators must get over 80% votes, or it will be a waste.


----------



## mediator (Sep 1, 2006)

Hey man u r unfit I see. Cudnt u quote mah text?? Was it hard on u?? 
I had to search for ur text to quote now! It soared ma h eyes!!

Neways u speak truly like Arjun Singh and stupid left leaders!!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> that's right, but then they are all cristians, and all speak english, this is less differences.


Hhuhuhuhh! Thats really a nice joke! All christians in worlds second largest democracy?? That was real nice! Goto US then.......and the nsay the same stuff! U'll become the biggest joke there! Do u know the meaning of democracy?
Common man we are debating here..........not making stupid jokes! Be serious!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i posted that statement as it's proved, it's in out gene, pure mongolians, and europians are more fit, and it's not the case for us indians. this point is a fact and you must belive it.


Europeans fit?? They use tissue paper instead water man! And u call em fit?? Foreigners are the most unhealthy people...most obese and diabetic! And u cal em fit??
There are gay marriages in US and Europe....and rape cases every 4 seconds...and u call em mentally fit??
Again man...I beg u....I see ur really mentally unfit..physically might be too. But please say that ur unfit and dont say "us Indians".........please dont drag us down to the level of ur mentality!!
Or if u wanna use the "us" tag then dont associate "indians" with it....use "bengalese" instead "indians". That wud be much better!


			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i don't know what you are talking, but as far as i know, we bengoly people are the only honest in india, and the rest all are "chor"


How cud u know....when u urself confess that ur mentally unfit!! Anyways it has been proven that the person who thinks he's the best is the most stupid character between his friends. I think u consider urself the best...eh? Cool!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> this you will know, just go to any state govt. office and see how they work. each individual is couroupted. and that was my point.


And complete ur senetence then........why do u hesitate?
Ask those govt employees surnames....and u'll find most bengalese!!

Hey man tell me do u ever see positive in anything?? or just try to see negetive in everything to make ur point and that ur the best??




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> once ahead in a race will always be ahead, and you can't do anything about it.


Wow! What a mentality man. Then u must be giving up on each and every race..huh?   neways India was behind UK sometime ago in economic race....but now is ahead of it and many other countries! And it will beat US one day! I dunno what u'll say then!!


Neways abt the mentality stuff...please dont drag me into it....coz ur the one who confessed that u r mentally retarded. And only the person who is fed up with life can say such thing that "we indians...blablabla" and dragging other to the menatlity stuff unnecessarliy! 



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> greg chapple is just a simple man, and anydays out polititoins can throw him out, we rule this country


And why shud they wanna do that?? Just because he banned a bengali??



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> as a cpm supporter, i can say that am both mentally and physically more fit than you.


Huh...nice joke! Bengalese are known to be most diabetic,obese,heavy drinkers may be like u and chain smokers!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> what do you support, the bjp


Ofcors! BJP is the best otion we have...well I know politicians are the same but BJP is much better bet with educated leaders rather than crowded with leaders like Arjun Singh and left leaders!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> what has bjp done so far


Well didnt u read newspapers during their 5 yrs?? Dont u get newspapers at home! If not then read BJP's history in those 5 yrs! It is much better than congress history in past 50 yrs and forget abt LEFT. It is no where near to be called a national party. It is rather a terrorist party! Withh all obese pieces sitting up in front lines and speaking rubbish abt "Swami Ramdev" dunno for what, making obscure,baseless and absurd accuses on others, making fun/mockery of themselves every single day and become so happy whenever there is a feast!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> what has congress done so far, nothing. after 40 yrs of independence,


True!




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> dictator, right, but who. remember, dictators are good for places that has only one people. it will work in japan, or amarica, where people think and do the same. here just you think you will vote some one, and i will vote some one else.dictators must get over 80% votes, or it will be a waste.


Wake up from ur dreamland and explain what u have written....I cudnt undersatnd a word! 
I can decode the toughest scriptures...but this was way above mah head....almost blew up mah supercomputer while decoding! And dictator getting votes?????...???  
Man "Sablok Clinic" is specially for ppl like u who donno what they r saying no matter how baseless and absurd .....and at the end say that they r the best!!
And hey..one thing more....gather as many bengalese here as u can against me....and then debate! I wanna see if all the bengalese are as mentally retarded as u....or u are one of few defective pieces!!

Neways tell me one thing/point or a good deed (if ANY) LEFT party has done that BJP has not done!!

EPEACE.....POST AGAIN!! Waiting anxiously to hear some more nice jokes from u....and next time quote correctly,completely or i'll complain to ur MOM !!


----------



## uttoransen (Sep 1, 2006)

*ok, you are going racial!!*

i know one day the admins of this forum will get you out of here, as the comments are too much race targeted which is not allowed, so am not reading much about that,


about the quote, i just give the" " your sentences.


"Europeans fit?? They use tissue paper instead water man! And u call em fit?? Foreigners are the most unhealthy people...most obese and diabetic! And u cal em fit??
There are gay marriages in US and Europe....and rape cases every 4 seconds...and u call em mentally fit??
Again man...I beg u....I see ur really mentally unfit..physically might be too. But please say that ur unfit and dont say "us Indians".........please dont drag us down to the level of ur mentality!!
Or if u wanna use the "us" tag then dont associate "indians" with it....use "bengalese" instead "indians". That wud be much better!"
that's the way you think, and us indians, and you what, from mumbai, or bihar, where dear? anyways you think you are strong, live in your dreams.

we have removed the bjp and now cpm is in power, and am happy about it.


"How cud u know....when u urself confess that ur mentally unfit!! "

so you think that you are mentally fit.
there are four kinds of mental power.
1) smart
2) clever
3) intelegent
4) intelectual.

you are smart and clever

i am intelegent and intelectual.

but one thing is required to say you are mentaly fit or not, and that is common sence, which says you are not.

why i said "chor", just think of your self, smart, clever that's what it means.
why i said dis-honest, state govt as example, i targetted bihar, and that's the biggest truth, all the people there are smart and clever, they are the biggest liblities of the country. that's mentally fit you call.


"Wake up from ur dreamland and explain what u have written....I cudnt undersatnd a word! "
see, that's why you are mentally retarded, you don't know english, in every line you just write something and the ......... some dots to explain, the whole of your race is mentally retarded, and that's seen here. can't understand, and then you can me. learn to understand first. am getting your mental condition very well now.

quote is something i never do, and don't ask me about it. i have put your sentences in "" and still if it's hard to find, you are mentally and physically unfit, and also your eyes are unfit, better wear some specs, or ask your mom to read it for you.
__________
i just mean the bihar state govt. and not biharies, so don't take me wrong there.
__________
i was only against the bihar state govt. offices, that's it, and not the biharies, so don't take me wrong there.


----------



## mediator (Sep 1, 2006)

uttoransen said:
			
		

> why i said "chor", just think of your self, smart, clever that's what it means.
> why i said dis-honest, state govt as example, i targetted bihar, and that's the biggest truth, all the people there are smart and clever, they are the biggest liblities of the country. that's mentally fit you call.


Wow now whose being racial?? U r targetting poor Biharis because u r loosing some fight?? First u said any govt office and now u r restricting it to Bihar??
Make up ur mentally retarded mind first...Uncle!! And form one opinion of what u wanna say!!




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i know one day the admins of this forum will get you out of here, as the comments are too much race targeted which is not allowed, so am not reading much about that,


I dunno about admins doing anything to me. But one thing's for sure. They will really laugh at your stupid posts !!
Anyways first u read my posts, form an opinion that it is racial and then say u didnt read it??? Please man you have made enough joke out of you........I cant laugh more!
I think we'll soon hear jokes like "uttoransen" or "uttoraNonSense" instead of "SANTA BANTA"!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> about the quote, i just give the" " your sentences.


ANd what do mean by " give the "" your sentence"? Is that another joke from ur retarded mentality Uncle??




			
				uttoransesn said:
			
		

> that's the way you think, and us indians, and you what, from mumbai, or bihar, where dear? anyways you think you are strong, live in your dreams.


Oh yes! I am an Indian and thats why I am strong!! And u wanna know mah location??.....So let me tell u. I AM LIVING IN US FOR THE PAST 6 YRS.
And I know how good Indians are. But I guess ur an exceptional case.



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> we have removed the bjp and now cpm is in power, and am happy about it.


And how did u remove the BJP? By eating fish...huh?? Nice joke!! First see the stake of stupid, mindless,good for nothing,anti national LEFT aprty in the present country hero!! Then say who removed whom.

Anyways there is only one state in which Left party is solely in power. And that state is eing inhabited by morons and mentally retarded people who see negetive in every thing. You know what am talkig about! Even a child wud know. 




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> there are four kinds of mental power.
> 1) smart
> 2) clever
> 3) intelegent
> 4) intelectual.


Hey mr.uttoraNonSense....can u please keep aside your stupid literature??
I know all cpm are idiots but didnt know that their followers are bigger idiot!! Hey man why do u people always try to bring in the stupid lectures of urs in beteen a serious debate??
And if u wanna bring som lectures..then bring the proof of it!!

Anyways....describe please. Whats the difference between intelligent and intelectual?? and smart and clever?? And if ucant tell or cant find anywhere then please stop posting nonsense here.




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> you are smart and clever


I know that. Tell me something new! But I thought u said I am mentally unfit?? Now u speak opposite?? I know thats a characteristics of LEFT people who cant form an opinion and that they are realy very mentally retarded like u. But this is extreme now. Please form a static opinion in ur mentally retarded mind! Do  some yoga or meditation. That will really help u!!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i am intelegent and intelectual


Are u kidding?? Who told u that?? Nice joke!!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> but one thing is required to say you are mentaly fit or not, and that is common sence, which says you are not.



Ooooh! Mr.uttoraNonSense talking about common sense!! Its like Arjun Singh speaking against reservation!! Hehe! Again who told u that u have commonsense??
Any ways u saying America has one language and one religions. I can see how much commonsense u have!! Even a child can make it out! That was really nice statement abt America.
AMericans will gonna have good time laughing after hearing this statement and the one sitting besides me(mah gf) is asking "Who the heck is this moron"?
And I am saying "Nothing...He is from BAngladesh...Not an Indian"...trying to preserve mah country's pride!! Hey man, dont make our country look like a fool!!
Neways she know now an explained her that some are excceptional cases like u...coz I have written that hee in front of her!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> why i said "chor", just think of your self, smart, clever that's what it means.


Is that a new ideology in bengal or just in ur stupid wonderland? What r u trying to say that Bengalese arent smart and clever?? Oh man u making mockery of ur own Bengal now and stupid left leaders tooo. Guess I dont have to do much now! U proving it yourself!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> why i said dis-honest, state govt as example, i targetted bihar, and that's the biggest truth, all the people there are smart and clever, they are the biggest liblities of the country. that's mentally fit you call.


Looks like u got some feeling of inferiority from Biharis! Hey Biharis u gonna love this retarded man then!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> yes they are, but they are the most honest and you can't fight that, as that's a fact. i only said about bihar, and that's the truth. and all biharies are the same in you. clever, smart, and dishonest. just go to any bihari state govt. and see for yourself. you will know.


Well, Indians ar honest, most are. Bengalese are honest tooo! Like U confessing that ur mentally retarded before our fight cud begin!!Hehe
But politicians are not honest esp. the left leaders.

Whenever there is some person from minority is kiled they stage a huge stupid drama. But whenever their is some hindu killed in J&K or any where they dont utter a word. Can u please tell why?? U are left supprter u say..then may be u can explain!
Pakistan created so much terror in India and leftist not saying anything. Instead they are still saying about peace. Thats the mentallity of leftist. They are the most mentaly retarded,absurd,obscure,obnoxious kinda species i have ever seen.

Whereas BJP atleast launched a massive army operation against Pakistan..but stopped only when the whole world begged to India!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> see, that's why you are mentally retarded, you don't know english


Hey mr.uttoraNonSense what am I writing in.....Farsi,Urdu or LAtin?? Please stop showing the height of ur mental retardedness!
Anyways do u consider people who donno english a mentally retarded?? EVen ur servant must be more mentally fit than u...I bet it !! Grow up!!



			
				uttornasen said:
			
		

> the whole of your race is mentally retarded


Race?? U from some other race?? Are u a Gorilla? dont u have balls? Are u from early era? I see u must be from cave man's era......thats why u are such a moron!



			
				uttaransen said:
			
		

> can't understand, and then you can me. learn to understand first. am getting your mental condition very well now.


Correct ur grammer first ...moron! 
Anyways nice joke! A moron,psycho trying to study others mental condition! Try to study your own mental retardedness first..........and dont feel inferior or laugh after u have studied your own!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> quote is something i never do


oooooooo attitude of Mr.UttaoraNonsense?? Why dont u like to follow rules?? Are u that desperate for mods to throw u outta here? I see u must have taken a sever beating in ur past and thats why u have become such a nonsense!!
See Even ur parents gave u a name matching "nonsense"! Coz they knew that ur mentally retarded!!
Anyways leftists are known not to be following rules.




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> and still if it's hard to find, you are mentally and physically unfit, and also your eyes are unfit, better wear some specs, or ask your mom to read it for you.


Oh man! I've been filering out ur posts from the beginning of this discussion. 
And u know how I get ur posts or able to read it?? Well the post which cross the threshold of insanity,mental retardedness and makes no sense are yours!! Any one make out that, even a child can!!




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i just mean the bihar state govt. and not biharies, so don't take me wrong there.


And I said most bengalese like u are stupid not all!!


Neways seem u have given up on pysical fitness after u saw that everybody knows about how unfit most begalese like u are!!




			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Bengalese are known to be most diabetic,obese,heavy drinkers may be like u and chain smokers!


Seen this??  Why did u give up on this argument??


Neways u still havent told me one thing/point or a good deed (if ANY) LEFT party has done that BJP has not done!!
Is it hard to guess?? Atleast u can make up some idiotic points(jokes) to please me?? I know bengalese like u are good jokers!! 

EPEACE.....POST AGAIN!! Waiting anxiously to hear some more nice jokes from u....and next time quote correctly,completely or i'll really complain to ur MOM !!


----------



## esumitkumar (Sep 1, 2006)

> what about the power situation in Delhi? @sumitkumar. It is privatized and still stinks



Dear ilugd...JO Govt ne bekaar kar rakha tha system itne saalon se ..pvt players will take sometime to correct it. Also we ppl are ourselves to blame as Bijli Chori is more in Delhi . havent u seen the AAJ TAK programme in which they show how electronic meters are tampered with resistance etc. *If people are themselves dishonest what can private players do ?*


----------



## uttoransen (Sep 1, 2006)

*ok, so you want to fight that,*

you were racial fight, and about that statement,  yes i am not absolutely corect, as bahari leads the race when i tell of dis-honesty, and the rest follows, means no one is honest, and that's our india, and you are not an indian living outside india, so it's better to discuss anymore.

about the name, i made the complain, let's see what happens. you are targetting a comunity, and that's not allowed here.

and my only point to india's poor performance in econamy is the muslim state borders. and that's absolutely correct.


----------



## mediator (Sep 1, 2006)

@uttoraNonSense.......
Hey man I tell u in one simple Line. India is not progressing because of people like you who are fed up with life and dont want to see anything positve in any situation and then keep fantasising about their own stories and considering whatever they say is true! Its because of people like u because of which our perstigious India is getting defamed. If you cant utter a word positive about India then u dont have right to speak negetive about it either!!
Yes I'll say India is 1000 times better than US....I know it! Every country has something negetiive about it. You live in India thats why u r acquanted to the negetive situations in India. Come too America and u'll see u wont be able to survive here if u dont have powerful friends!

And now that u know I have lived in US for 6 yrs, u wanna end the topic?? Why ? Dont u have the guts?? Or lost ground when an Indo-American himself is praising India?? Common lets play a little further!



			
				uttorasen said:
			
		

> you were racial fight


I am racial fight?? What does that mean?? Correct ur english vocablury,clauses and grammer u moron!

Anyways thats the problem with most bengalese like u. If someone speak some sour truth about u, then u think that he speaking about all bengalese. Like u thinking that I'm speaking about all bengalese. Come out from ur mental retardedness and read mah posts from start. I've referring from the very start about defective pieces and bengalese like u not all bengalese.
Similarly Greg Chappel only banned sorav because of some reason.....then why did u consider that he's being racial to bengalese?? Do u have a brain or not?? Oh sorry u already confessed from beginning that ur mentally retarded!!

Anyways u've been very racial to poor biharis and calling them chor, defaming Indians as mentally unfit. Hey man whats ur problem if ur mentally unfit...then why do keep on dragging down others to ur level and saying "Indians are mentally unfit" ?
I know u r very very retarded both mentally and physically....but please dont apply ur worly pains to all of us!! 




			
				uttransen said:
			
		

> yes i am not absolutely corect


Oh u were never correct! Ur mind is very fluctuating and u r mentally retarded ....accept that!! Anyhow I'm pleased u made another confession!




			
				uttorasen said:
			
		

> as bahari leads the race when i tell of dis-honesty, and the rest follows


Whose "bahari" man??  Why do u consider biharis as dishonest?? Did they teased u in school or beat u in some mind games?? Or made fun of you??
I dunno what's up with u?? and why do u keep talking like mentally retarded piece with all baseless talks!

Come to US and I bet u'll be uttering the same baseless talk for Americans too instead of biharis!




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> about the name, i made the complain, let's see what happens. you are targetting a comunity, and that's not allowed here.


Oh so u made a complaint like a stupid child who calls his parents after geting severe beating?? Why dont u have guts to talk?? Dont cry now!



Neways I can make more complaints than u coz
1. U dont obey forum rules of quoting properly!
2. Calling Indian as mentally unfit in worlds greatest,smartest mentally fit forums!
3. Calling Biharis as "Chor"
4. Kneeling down in front of Americans like a slave!
5. Racial Hatred towards Muslims!


But I dont cry like u.......coz FIGHT CLUB is for thick skinned people and not for babies like u! If u cant talk rationally and dont have guts to continue then dont ever come to FIGHT CLUB...coz this is my PLAYGROUND and i dont like crying babies here like u!




			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> means no one is honest, and that's our india,


But first u said bengalese are honest and now u say no one is honest?? What de heck! Hey man are u from some "pagal khana".........I think i'm debating with a looser kid, a sixth grade flunky who donno what he is saying and keeps on crying after every post! Thats a very special character of a LEFtIST,a cpm person and they are known for such stupidity! 



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> and my only point to india's poor performance in econamy is the muslim state borders. and that's absolutely correct



Wow now u being racial towards muslims too..huh?? Another reason for mods to consider now! Anyways whats muslim borders has to do with it??
Israel is surrounded by Muslim states...but the living condition there is almost equivalent to US!!
ANd Seing India...its surrounded by Nepal too =>A HINDU STATE, Burma, Bhutan,srilanka most consisting of buddhist and hindus! The only Muslims states are Bangladesh and PAkistan! Then why do u cry about it??
Thats another example of u seeing negetive in every sitaution no matter how minor it be! But Leftist like u will even rake up such a minor issue and not seeing bigger issues!


Anyways for godsake tell me what good deed leftist has done that bjp has not done! U claimed of such baseless statement...then prove it!
Leftists like u are like this only and dont have the balls to prove ur word! Common Boy say something!! I've been waitin ganxiously for last 3 posts to read something abt this!!


Hey Mr.UttoraNonSense.......I think u know u r wrong and feel inferior to others.........Thats why I suggest u read go home take a full fledged GITA from ur MOMMY or elders and read it like a good boy! U will feel some inner pleasure and will find people not making fun of you anymore!!

See I have been posting talks with some base...so in future u too post some baseful talks and with proper reasoning instead of posting like a moron flunky!

EPEACE.....POST AGAIN!! Waiting anxiously to hear some more nice jokes from u....and next time quote correctly,completely or i'll really complain to ur PAPA...uttora babu!!


----------



## ilugd (Sep 2, 2006)

OK, just an experience. I once asked an american visitor to my home, what was the difference on the roads between india and America.
Lets See (This is only what he said, i haven't verified the veracity of the statement)
In america the common man, at the most would break the speed limit
In India
1. Traffic Signal
2. Sticking to own lane
3. Signalling when changing lane
4. Bribing the traffic police
5. Allowing children to drive without license
6. Parking in No parking areas
7. Stopping the car in the middle of the road to ask for directions or to attend a phone call
8. Cows (do i need to say more)

This guy was not an indian basher. He knew America was not the best and he said that. It was just a non committal assessment.

@sumit, your comment on the common man says it all. So why blame just the politicians. We need to take responsibility for our own actions instead of stating the same old politician/police blame game crap. Saying that India is worse or America is worse is not possible as there are separate fields of assessment to consider. Winnow the chaff from the wheat, for that you need to know what the chaff is, right?? Right??


----------



## uttoransen (Sep 2, 2006)

*why india is not progressing.*

if you just go through the posts you will find the reason. people in india fight between themselves. there are over 10 crore bengalies who are the most honest in india, they are the best in the acadmics, and are mostly in jobs through out india. there will be people in india who will be the most ediots arround, they will check others posts, will do a lot of comments and most of all will never do a correct thing in there entire life.

if anyone wants to see india prosper, forget about others and stop critising others. look  inside you, do your work properly. forget what you are, and what you do, if you do your work properly you will see india develop one day.

hardly matters that you are a rich or a simple man doing simple things. just be honest from your part. if you are a student just perform in studies, if you are working just work honestly. be honest on your part and everything will go good.

just for the example, see a person who don't know me, just from the surname is critising me, making some comunal violance, and this is what my point why india is not developing. i have been the best in the accademics and the best in the sports, and most of all i don't look into others matters. if india has to develop then each one of us has to do our work honestly. and that is mental fitness and honesty. don't be clever and smart, just be honest, its your country, play the honest game.


----------



## mediator (Sep 2, 2006)

@ilugd...Right said bro!
@uttoransen.... I praise u for this post!! This was nobel!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> f you just go through the posts you will find the reason. people in india fight between themselves. there are over 10 crore bengalies who are the most honest in india, they are the best in the acadmics, and are mostly in jobs through out india. there will be people in india who will be the most ediots arround, they will check others posts, will do a lot of comments and most of all will never do a correct thing in there entire life.


Ofcors Bengalese are also Indians....and Indians are intelligent!! 
Neways for checking other's posts...then let me remind u, this is Fight Club....A place for debates! And u have to check others posts before making ur own move! Its like a chess board to win a debate! So i dunno how u move on in this game! Dont u check others post and then go on making mindless,baseless comments and posts?
How did u complain about me?? Didnt u check my posts first? ofcors u did! and then only complained ...isnt it??



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> if anyone wants to see india prosper, forget about others and stop critising others. look inside you, do your work properly. forget what you are, and what you do, if you do your work properly you will see india develop one day.
> 
> hardly matters that you are a rich or a simple man doing simple things. just be honest from your part. if you are a student just perform in studies, if you are working just work honestly. be honest on your part and everything will go good.
> 
> just for the example, see a person who don't know me, just from the surname is critising me, making some comunal violance, and this is what my point why india is not developing. i have been the best in the accademics and the best in the sports, and most of all i don't look into others matters. if india has to develop then each one of us has to do our work honestly. and that is mental fitness and honesty. don't be clever and smart, just be honest, its your country, play the honest game.


Absolutely agreed! and thats why I say Leftist are the worst......coz they keep on interfering in others work......like "Baba Ramdev's" Nobel work! They dont have the mind to think of something nobel or to develop India....but keep on destroying everything prestigious India has like the Song "Vande Mataram" now....list is endless. If u want I can give the list to u! Want it??

And thats why I say every country has something negetive about it. I see a lot negetive about America. But I ponder only about positive aspects of it and try to cherish it!

Whenevr I come to India I try to cherish its positve aspects! And its upto us to improve India to make it No.1. U cant just leave India if its less powerful or luxurious than US.....I'll consider u as traitor then! But if u leave India for US...will u come to India again if India beats US in the same race of luxury and power?? I'll consider u as selfish then...who thinks about himself then!

So lets cherish whatever we have...lets see positive about India! And dont call Indians mentally unfit coz that will then apply to ur parents also!! I see a lotta americans here whose IQ is lower than average Indian and talk rubbish most of the time. I consider them most mentally unfit sometimes!!

So cheers....EPEACE! Lets cherish our India and our people and learn to have forgiveness!


----------



## uttoransen (Sep 2, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> @ilugd...Right said bro!
> @uttoransen.... I praise u for this post!! This was nobel!



that's so nice of you, thanks.


then why do you go after bengolies so much, and sorry if i said too much about the bihares, but the fact is they are leading the race in the state govt's when corruption is consedered. anyways the others those are curropt will not be tolerated, and every corruption has to end to see india prosper.


i know that people in india are not the weakest wheather mentally and physically. but we are backword and that you have to confess, out people are illetarate, they don't get food and education, there is child labour. 

is amarica better than india? my answer no.

is amarica developed, reasons i have already posted.

amarican people face more cancer, every family of 4 people in amarica has a cancer patient, is this development. think!!!!!

but then people in india has to be more petriotic, by this i don't mean that take a gun and go to the border, but do what you are doing, just do it honestly. i am a honest person, i hope every one becomes honest and everything will go right for india then.


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## ilugd (Sep 2, 2006)

Hey, this is the fight club. The tone is concillatory now. It shouldn't be. <Wicked grin>


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## mediator (Sep 2, 2006)

@uttorasen....Hey man! I was not after all the bengalese. I was only after u coz u said "Indian are physically and mentally unfit"! I'm an Indian by heart though I live in US and I'm not after any community or religion. 
I have many many muslim friends, my brother is a bengali, another is bihari though now lives in delhi and my uncle is from south. So u can see my joint family covers the whole of India!!

I know corruption is there is any govt office. I know that very well. But there is no specific community behind such corruption. Corruption is in mind and in politicians. So we have to change ourselves first before trying to accuse others.

I like that u took ur word for biharis back! Many people dont even say sorry after such thing!



			
				uttorasen said:
			
		

> i know that people in india are not the weakest wheather mentally and physically. but we are backword and that you have to confess, out people are illetarate, they don't get food and education, there is child labour.
> 
> is amarica better than india? my answer no.
> 
> is amarica developed, reasons i have already posted.


Now see mentally unfit is very different from being backwards! Dont u agree?
My servant in Delhi is poor or backward. But u see she has 20000 bucks in her bank account and takes care of her kids very well. She says one of her kid is in reputed school. So dont u think that she being backwards/poor is so mentally strong that she is taking care of her kids so nicely??
So think for a while....and u'll see Indians are most mentally strong in the world! Thats why they get jobs in US and other countries so easily! Infact Indians are very demanding outside India!! Take example of IT students and doctors and think!   



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> amarican people face more cancer, every family of 4 people in amarica has a cancer patient, is this development. think!!!!!


Ofcors this is not development! Infact this shows itself how unfit physically americans are!! Infact most of my american friends here are obese and many elders diabetic and many dont brush their teeth and having brown/yellow teeth!



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> but then people in india has to be more petriotic, by this i don't mean that take a gun and go to the border, but do what you are doing, just do it honestly. i am a honest person, i hope every one becomes honest and everything will go right for india then.


Indians are very patriotic...Believe me! Worlds greatest natural calamities take place in India+terrorst strikes. And after such tragedy Indian unity reaches a new peak with each Indian helping other after such tragedy. 
And if we were like pakis then Pakistan wud not be visible on world map in first place. 

I know ur honest, coz ur Indian! And show such honesty in future too!
I'm sorry if hurt ur feeling in my posts and made fun of ur name! But I cant help myself whenever I see someone making baseless accuses and defaming India unnecessarily and talking absurdly!

Lets forgive each other and make friends and in future please dont try to accuse others unnecessarily and without any proof or base! And have respect for ur countrymen, for ur motherland, ur parents! JAI HIND!!

EPEACE!


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## uttoransen (Sep 3, 2006)

*ok, that's nice.*

i just told that amaricans are more fit than indians, that dose not mean that indians are unfit. anyways my statement was based on some surveys, and tests that are seen not only in tv, but was also accepted world wide. remember in the world cup football, not this one, but the one previous, they said germans are more strong then chinese. these are global datas, anyways forget that.

 i personally think that the jews are the most fit people, but that dose not compaire with anyone.

india has more poor people and many get's no food to eat, and that's added to the total manpower's fitness. illetarates counts towards mental fitness. all these things matters. that's why i said, each one if dose work honestly, india will prosper soon.

am not going to post anything more here, i think it's all fine now.


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## mediator (Sep 3, 2006)

Yea me too too tired of posting in this....anyways that football comment of urs....I cudnt understand.....what was it about?? If germans are more strong than chinese then its confined to football man. WHat does it has to do with fitness??

If u see WWE then their is Indian called "Khali"...and is most strong. What will u say for that?

Personally u think jews are most fit??How come and what basis??
Anyways personally I think Indians and Chinese are most fit coz they practise Yoga and Shaoin Kungfu!!
For americans more fit than Indians ....can u tell which survey?? I read a lotta news but every time I switch news Channel like Fox News here I only see miserable obese/diabetic americans telling their painful tails of their health!!

And world wide u say?? I also see on Fox news and other new channels here about some Indians teaching yoga to other americans here. And they(americans) see towards India for attaining physical and mental fitness both. Believe me India Rules......Just wait n watch for next 20 yrs. U'll say then....that America is nothing and thats the view of most Jewish here. Ever had a Jewish friend??? Ask him then!!

Neways most my American friends here keep asking me about Indian gods and tardition and most particularly Yoga!! I tell them about the tradition and Gods to some extent. But I feel ashamed when I'm not able to tell them about Yoga....coz I only know a few positions and stuff about Yoga. i guess I have to watch "Bab ramdev" more closely now!


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## SolidSnake (Sep 4, 2006)

Arre, how on earth maine yeh thread miss kardi. hehe!


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## Ven Key (Sep 4, 2006)

mera bharat mahan


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## mAYHEM (Sep 4, 2006)

*Re: ok, that's nice.*



			
				uttoransen said:
			
		

> i just told that amaricans are more fit than indians



Fit in the Sense.......

If its intellegence,they(common american/avg american) don't even come closer.


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## led_shankar (Sep 4, 2006)

This is the most idiotic "debate" I have come across. Ever.

People are people. Americans are people. Indians are people. And a person being good (or "fit") has nothing to do with where he/she lives. Kaise log ho tum?


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## Drizzling Blur (Sep 10, 2006)

Simple Yes

Look at the truth, patriotism is good, truth does prevail, so what if its better than India now ? Its just a matter of time.


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## nix (Sep 12, 2006)

I – Proud To Be An Indian


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## Root2 (Oct 14, 2006)

i m with zegulas... if evey body keeps on telling corruption is the main cause coz of which India is not developing, then its just giving reasons (just like i was late 4 da class coz da bus was late) that dosent makes any sense.. n even sabka rangde basanti karnese bhi kaam nahi calega .. some one has to take it seriously n act like Nayak.. then der might be some change in India..


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## fuhrer (Oct 14, 2006)

i think america is better than india.in india the standard of living is very low as compared to america.india can be better if the curruption is minimised.


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## Abhishek Dwivedi (Oct 20, 2006)

look it realy doesnt matters that we r corrupt or we have less resource or more population....all we need is a verrry BIG REVOLUTION and this REVOLUTION has to be brought upon by us....the future is ours lets tweak it....


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## kprasann (Oct 20, 2006)

Mostly, YES...simply because they DO NOT blame others for their own mistakes.

HEY YOU ALL,,,,,INCLUDING THE 'LEARNED CLASS' OF THIS COUNTRY,   MY HUMBLE SUGGESTION
=== DO NOT SPIT, LITTER AND PISS ON THE ROADS == AND THIS COUNTRY WILL SURELY IMPROVE MUCH FASTER(ITS IMPROVING FOR SURE, BUT THATS JUST A CONSOLATION)!!!


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## mediator (Oct 21, 2006)

kprasann said:
			
		

> they DO NOT blame others for their own mistakes.


Wrong! Thats not just restricted just to India! Go n tour the world, everybody is like that. Not all people do that, only sick ones do that and u'll find more drunks and alcoholics outside India than in India who like to do that and I guess the highest no. of alcoholics must be in America.



			
				kprasann said:
			
		

> HEY YOU ALL,,,,,INCLUDING THE 'LEARNED CLASS' OF THIS COUNTRY, MY HUMBLE SUGGESTION
> === DO NOT SPIT, LITTER AND PISS ON THE ROADS == AND THIS COUNTRY WILL SURELY IMPROVE MUCH FASTER(ITS IMPROVING FOR SURE, BUT THATS JUST A CONSOLATION)!!


 YEa thats my humble suggestion too!


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## supernova (Oct 26, 2006)

I believe ratehr than fightin Let's give this country more time and at the same time we all contribute our bit for the betterment of our surroundings.

Jai Hind


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## thewisecrab (Oct 27, 2006)

i'D SAY INDIA IS BETTER THAN D USA........

SAARE JAHAAN SE ACHAA,HINDUSTAN HAMAARA!

(i'm a bit patriotic)


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## DukeNukem (Oct 27, 2006)

thewisecrab said:
			
		

> i'D SAY INDIA IS BETTER THAN D USA........
> 
> SAARE JAHAAN SE ACHAA,HINDUSTAN HAMAARA!
> 
> (i'm a bit patriotic)



Now Thats the Funniest thing i've heard/Read



			
				thewisecrab said:
			
		

> (i'm a bit patriotic)


How and Why are you a bit patriotic ??


Is America better than India???
it depends where you live.

SAARE JAHAAN SE ACHAA, <INDIA/AMERICA> HAMAARA!


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## Poon (Nov 2, 2006)

Higher standard of living does not necessarily mean higher quality life. You are trying to compare a nation which is hardly 250 years old with one which is more than 1000 years old, what foolishness. Of course I cannot ignore the fact that our country is loaded with poverty and other problems. But if you compare the positive aspects we have a lot more. If you want to say America is better please I beg you to leave India and go and I am sure you would want to also (which I wouldn't blame you).
If that country had the same population size as ours they would go crazy and wouldn't be able to cope with it like we do.
__________
Hey you are full of criticism for India and talk about people who piss and sh*t on the road. Why don't you cast your vote or do something about it. Go build a toilet. Atleast we don't go bombing other Countries under the name of peace or doing "good" for the earth. In America buggers do the same thing, Just that they don't have the same pop. like ours and hence it is not noticed. Atleast we don't produce all that child porn. which comes out of there. 
Please don't compare; they consume 25% world resources and produce the double the waste; I for one would never want India to become like America.

regards Poon


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## naveen_reloaded (Nov 2, 2006)

no no way


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## Poon (Nov 4, 2006)

Lets rephrase the question is America worse than India


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## mediator (Nov 4, 2006)

^^Hey that will mean that outta all the countries in the world we are comparing the last 2 countries! But this thread's title approximately means which is number 1 and which is number 2! Don't drag India to such low position man!


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## gunda_26 (Nov 4, 2006)

If you are an* upper* caste hindu ,*USA is better than India*.And if you are a *lower* caste hindu ,than *India is better than USA*,as no country in the world will be fool enough to provide seats on the basis of caste.India is a living hell for upper castes and a paradise for SC/ST/OBCs.


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## Tech.Masti (Nov 5, 2006)

^^^^
OOPh, not a bad line....this is true..

both India and US have their unique formalities, style...
door se sab kuch achha lagta hai, magar pass aata hai to uska problems nazar me aata hai...


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## reddick (Nov 5, 2006)

Okay,it's now gt cleared that how n why v r lacked behind usa  But wht is needed is to make r country stronger,smarter,faster in all terms  but how  d ans. is simple,v must devote some time n money for r country for it's upliftment  mostly politicians n cops r frauds n everyone knows it,but v also r responsible for worst condition of india  so v all have to take major steps for it's development  THANKS for ur patience!


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## nix (Nov 5, 2006)

yeah the US is better than india thats why the mad rush to go there. do education go there and never come back..thats whats happening..


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## Tech Geek (Nov 5, 2006)

I think so it is
may be not


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## Manshahia (Jan 21, 2007)

We sud vote to the candidate is Literate nd not to the Old thinking Illiterates who even dont knw wat technology is .
Wat they do after being elected??
Just go to the Legislative house, pass time in World tours, Hav meetings with own party members nd pass 5 years.

When it comes to voting again after 5 years they come to poor people , eat some meal with them etc....
DO some development rallies in the last month.

That y India is still a developing country.
Those were the times when it was called a gold Sparrow.


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## shashank_digitreader (Jan 21, 2007)

I dont think america is better than india, or i dont think vice versa. When america faced Hurricane, lot of people broke into the stores and took everything away, thus we know that the ppl of america are not socialised, even we r not. I think India needs a good govt first, those F***ing politicians must be removed, well............the F***ing ones.


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## Vyasram (Jan 21, 2007)

without any biasedness and personal feelings, i would say that the USA is better than India


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## harmu.com (Jan 22, 2007)

amarica is better than india, every amarican family is prowd to have one cancer patient! one out of 4 people in amarica has cancer.

people there are getting divorce, families breaking down.

atleast in india, we don't have dreams of planes landing on our building!


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## thunderbird.117 (Jan 22, 2007)

Who ever started this thread has no knowledge. No one is perfect, No nations are prefect in any ways.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Jan 22, 2007)

USA is a racist and Fascist country but india is not , therefore india is better than USA


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## Aberforth (Jan 22, 2007)

This debate sounds like "My parents are better than yours.." kind of debate. True US is the richer than India and has hell lots of money but it does not have the spirituality and relationship value of Indian culture. Their way of life suits them best, but would crash our system. After all money is useless if you don't have human bonds, which is often missing in US (highest suicide rates, depression, etc.)

And we are talking of US which got independence 200 years ago compared to 50 of India, do you know what US was like 150 years back? There was rampant slavery, it was legal to lynch blacks, people used to kill each other during California Gold rush, utter chaos. Compared to it India is much better. Its depressing when you see the state of India today but still its India and its definitely going ahead.

By the way US way of life definitely isn't the best, they have realized it and trying reforms (conservatives). While India has a culture evolved over 10000 years but the wrong is on the adoption of British laws, outdated post Mughal traditions. Read Kautilya's Arthashashtra, the Vedas and you'll see what India was like then. India was much liberal, open minded than it is today.....today's moral police should read them before jumping on hoops on colonial Victorian version of 'Indian Morality'


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Jan 23, 2007)

india rocks


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## rajasekharan (Jan 31, 2007)

Which ever country that you live and are brought up is the BEST no doubt about it . No point in comparing nations . Nothing beats a HOME LAND


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## led_shankar (Jan 31, 2007)

rajasekharan said:
			
		

> Which ever country that you live and are brought up is the BEST no doubt about it . No point in comparing nations . Nothing beats a HOME LAND


It's nice to know there are SOME people with sense on this thread.


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## evil_maverick (Feb 5, 2007)

Are Bhai Looog 
Aur Kidhar Will U Get Windows Xp For 50 Bucks From Yr Local Cd Wallah?
And 
All The Latest Gamz For Less Than 3 Usd ?
And Even The Latest Win Vista For A Lil More May Be.....
Say 250 Bucks...
Which U Can Negotiate And Bring Dwn Till 200!!

India Roooooooooooooockz!!
(booooo To Usa But Thumbs Up To Microsoft For Making All The Quality Softwares!! Keep On The "samaj" Seva Mr Gates!! )


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## Ganeshkumar (Feb 8, 2007)

India has many things to learn frm US... But I like India My India.... Jai Hind


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## koolbluez (Feb 9, 2007)

Well, I dunno much about both countries... I'm Géek *www.clayaikencdparties.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/ClayWINK.gif *www.clayaikencdparties.com/fo...t/ClayWINK.gif


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## santu_29 (Feb 10, 2007)

india or usa.. ummm.. china.. eeee.. did i say say china.. well ya.. the leader is actually china.. us leads.. india follows/copies china makes... n sells to boath india n us  mind says us.. heart says India, eyes see china.. lol


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## rakesh_1024 (Feb 12, 2007)

Well I am currently in USA and I can say that their hunger for money is gonna make them fall.
The city I live  in has many homeless people living on roads and yet the first priority in their city management plan is introducing casinos.
The reason.....people are travelling to neighbouring cities to play lottery and losing their money over there.
So to stop the flow of money to other cities, they are starting casinoes and lottery shops <_<

Another thing is that they distribute free food to homeless people which made them even more lazy....they are now fat and doing nothing.


But one thing I like about USA is the work culture. You get respect whatever you do. And you can easily live a good life and enjoy it at the same time with the money you earn.
Thatz one of the main reasons for the low corruption rate


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## Ganeshkumar (Feb 13, 2007)

India too is changing... 
It will take time...


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## brutality9k (Feb 13, 2007)

rakesh_1024 said:
			
		

> Well I am currently in USA and I can say that their hunger for money is gonna make them fall.
> The city I live  in has many homeless people living on roads and yet the first priority in their city management plan is introducing casinos.



What the.....this sounds much like the adminstration of hariyana & delhi or most major cities of india, including delhi & mumbai. they are making malls, theators everything....international brands are coming, but i would like to ask just one thing, What about the water, sewage, electricity system , what do we need more, 20 Malls, or 24/7 water supply



> Another thing is that they distribute free food to homeless people which made them even more lazy....they are now fat and doing nothing.



 lolz...they get $300 a month for doing nothing, thats the unemployment dole they get. They even get subcidy to farm...., wish these were here



> But one thing I like about USA is the work culture. You get respect whatever you do.



This is something indians should learn now, every job has it's importance, even a sweapers job is important to keep the place clean for us


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## lalam (Feb 13, 2007)

On a lighter term raise the currency to the level of pound   Yep most of the well educated people in india goes out there to get rich and shy india gets drained. As i know Nasa also has a huge amount of indian scientist working there if only they did worked for india then i guess we're there. Blaming corruption isn't a solution for like it or not its become a part of human lives like they say to survive you gotta be a little playfull. Whose there to blame we are to blame!


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## Aberforth (Feb 13, 2007)

rakesh_1024 said:
			
		

> Another thing is that they distribute free food to homeless people which made them even more lazy....they are now fat and doing nothing.



Well if we are to take them at the same level, the Indian farmers are committing suicide due to debts or starving to death. Which would you choose, lazy and fat or death by suicide and desperation?



			
				lalam said:
			
		

> Blaming corruption isn't a solution for like it or not its become a part of human lives like they say to survive you gotta be a little playfull. Whose there to blame we are to blame!



You can't put all the blame on corruption as it has become so entrenched in our life here. But once a person goes to west Europe or US he/she just realizes how smooth and easier life is there (competition is peanuts compared to India), you get respected for whatever you do, people are more polite (in spite of all racism hype we hear), you earn much more that you live well and end up with a lot of savings, the infrastructure is impeccable. Once you come back, you realize how much you miss and could gain if you move there. Sadly it is the fact of life and unless they have closer options in India, the scientists are going to go to US and UK. The choice is, live in India and be kicked around by politicians and bureaucrats all your life with a pitiable salary or live a respected, decent life in the west.


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## rakesh_1024 (Feb 14, 2007)

USA uses modern machinery to do stuff. This way the requirement of man power reduces drastically......Instead of distributing free food and money, they can atleast save fuel by putting those machines aside.
But the thing is that they are least bothered about people living on streets.
We can not compare this case with starvation in India.


And regarding corruption, some amount of  corruption is always good for Indians.
Don't get me wrong...ppl are underpaid and they don't get paid for the work they do.
Only when it gets out of hand, problem arises.
Screw the rich people, no problem, it won't effect them that much.
Thats the reason, I discourage everyone I know from bargaining with vegetable vendors.


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## Aberforth (Feb 16, 2007)

rakesh_1024 said:
			
		

> Don't get me wrong...ppl are underpaid and they don't get paid for the work they do.
> Only when it gets out of hand, problem arises.
> Screw the rich people, no problem, it won't effect them that much.
> Thats the reason, I discourage everyone I know from bargaining with vegetable vendors.



We can't condone corruption as a way of life, what we can do is take measures to increase salaries for a better living condition so that the need to take bribes does not arise. A lot of officials were idealistic before they see the realities of life and find it necessary to be corrupt. A Mumbai police official explains how his monthly transport allowance barely lasts three days of his bike petrol which means he has to find alternative sources of income. Of course if we put this in newpapers and show their plight people wouldn't like it - they prefer thinking of police as vicious criminals.

A policeman in Europe or US doesn't indulge in corruption because his nominal salary, housing-medical-transport allowance, holidays, perks are a good incentive not to risk his job and conscience indulging in corrupt practices. We can cite similar lines for other departments too... The sufferers of corruption are the common people who pay taxes and then pay again for the services which should have been provided for, from their tax money. The people who benefit from corruption are the politicians and top level bureucrats which put heir respnsibility on the common people and enjoy our tax money.


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## premsharma (Feb 17, 2007)

USA is better than India because they can patent your turmeric, Basmati, Yoga etc and we keep cribbing. Ancient past of India looted and now these very people are trying to make us aware "" Piracy Piracy piracy"

No consumerism in India. Everyone is out there to Loot consumers including India Companies, let alone the MNCs. Politicians can fool people here like slogans of Indian Congress " Congress ka Haath Gareeb ke saath" for onions & tomatoes @ 20 and Aatta @ 16 and same way other things. 

Thus in the sense USA is better than India but I am never going to desert my motherland.


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## caleb (Feb 17, 2007)

YES and NO


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## santu_29 (Feb 17, 2007)

*abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1674437


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## amol48 (Feb 18, 2007)

The main pro with indians i Guess is their "chalta hai" tendency... We really never oppose anything so strongly. As a result after some protest  everyone forgets it and the same is continued. Also WE 'The indians' don't vote. And the party which comes in force also is not a single party but an alliance. 
Take this example:
Voting in India                      : 50 % (approx)
single Party getting max votes 
accounts for Max                  : 50 % of totol voters .

Thus, This party which later comes into force represents only 25% of india's india's population. What about the rest ??
__________
As per the US report there is about 1.7 hectres of and in US per people and only 0.6 hectres in India and till 2050 in US itself there would be only 0.6 hectres left     when there growth rate is 1.1% ... Think what about india then ?? So how the population is a boon. And in country like india where more than 15% is BPL


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## Aberforth (Feb 18, 2007)

I agree with you, amol48. I do find this attitude exasperating at times, we need to be a nation to demand our rights, not give way to goons who want to push us to side to get their way.

Another problem is a generation accepts being frozen in time at the cost of democracy in the name of flase 'values' and 'morality' (Please take time away from vandalism and open books on Indian culture you moralists). From one of the most culturally rich, tolerant and 'guest is god' ancient culture we have turned to a fake morality culture which harasses people in love considering it 'western' (were Ram and Sita from Chicago?), kills foreign missionaries, incites riots in the name of religion and treat women below par with men (this isn't Indian actually). There is less patriotism for the land and its people, India isn't a nation of tricolour flag, Ashok Chakra or Jana Gana Mana, it the land of the 1 billion Indians and that is what we should care for.  When an Indian minister on a diplomatic visit is unceremoniusly stripped in US we tend to hid our faces and hush hush it is 'normal for America'. How would US feel and react if, for example Donald Rumsfield were strip searched at the airport on an official visit to India? And despite all the media hype about communal harmony, its still a myth in a major portion of India and forget communal myth, petty regionalism is a big brouhaha here - for political ends of course. Granted, it exists in US too but their influence and power in day to day life is much less, people are more concerned about national security and living their life.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Feb 18, 2007)

Just remember India is best , then India will be best 

jai hind


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## mediator (Feb 18, 2007)

^+1


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## nirusam (Feb 18, 2007)

Dear Friend, there are no similarities between both the countries, we are on north pole and they are on south pole. Just examine the facts and think.->
a. India has a population of more than 130 crores.
b. India has more than 75 different religions major and minor.
c. India has more than 200 ethnicities.
d. Indians on an average pay tax at the rate of 1 per 100 and that is a very very relaxed figure.
e. Indians do not find it funny if they are duped again and again by the political parties , more than 95 percent of us are "Chalta Hai types" and rest are the one's who are chaloing it.
f. We will be a super power despite all these shortcomings, that is for sure. But our children will be here to see that day.
take care see you.


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## 24online (Feb 18, 2007)

yes,America is better than India... b/s Indians live there... Due to bad politics and government system, we fail each time in each issue... its right time to take concrete decision for make India superpower in 2020.... just forget minority.. all r same and give all equal importance...


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