# Nintendo vs. Sony vs, Microsoft



## heidi2521 (Apr 2, 2013)

Whom do you like? Who do you hate?


I think Nintendo is the best due to their awesome first party library and the third party exclusives they manage to snag. I also like the facts they are willing to experiment with their consoles/games. I also like them because they rescued Bayonetta 2 and Lego City: Undercover from cancellation and development hell.

Sony is also ok in my books, mainly because of the massive third party support they get. I have nothing for or against the company itself.

M$ on the other hand, i despise. They charging for online play, shitty policies stating Xbox first or simultaneous with other platforms, lack of any FP IPs I'm interested in and the rabid 12 yr old dudebro crowd they attract(Sony has no shortage of them though).


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 2, 2013)

you won't get much replies 
This forum is mainly crowded with Pirate PC Fanboys,they dont care about sony,ninty or "Micro$hit"
Anyways, let the endangered ps3 fanboys take it away from here. 


If it was Intel vs AMD vs Nvidia though.......................................................................
then


Spoiler


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## heidi2521 (Apr 2, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> If it was Intel vs AMD vs Nvidia though.......................................................................
> then
> 
> 
> Spoiler


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## ico (Apr 2, 2013)

I prefer Nintendo because they innovate the most.


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 2, 2013)

Another PC first guy here, who only prefers sony consoles and every nintendo console before the Wii 

Sony has awesome FP titles, and so does nintendo (pokemon, mario, zelda being the most common names). I like how nintendo innovates with everything, but I can't say I'm too pleased with their recent innovations. For me, the second screen on the WiiU is a distraction. The only real benefit I see is when 2 players want to play together, or when the TV cannot be turned on.
If instead they had made the GamePad an optional add-on, I could consider it. I don't like extensive motion gaming (occasional accelerometer use is OK), which defeats the purpose of me getting a Wii, and I don't like 3D, which defeats the purpose of me getting a 3DS. Just because of Pokemon X & Y, I _might_ consider getting a 3DS but that's a pipe dream at present.

Microshaft is probably the only company whose console I despise. They make you pay for _everything_, from patches, to updates, to multiplayer, to a netflix surcharge in the name of Xbox live subscriptions. Maybe if they fixed their pay wall, I could consider their console in future. Not gonna happen any time now though.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 2, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Another PC first guy here, who only prefers sony consoles and every nintendo console before the Wii
> 
> Sony has awesome FP titles, and so does nintendo (pokemon, mario, zelda being the most common names). I like how nintendo innovates with everything, but I can't say I'm too pleased with their recent innovations. For me, the second screen on the WiiU is a distraction. The only real benefit I see is when 2 players want to play together, or when the TV cannot be turned on.
> If instead they had made the GamePad an optional add-on, I could consider it. I don't like extensive motion gaming (occasional accelerometer use is OK), which defeats the purpose of me getting a Wii, and I don't like 3D, which defeats the purpose of me getting a 3DS. Just because of Pokemon X & Y, I _might_ consider getting a 3DS but that's a pipe dream at present.
> ...



Ok,thats exaggeration...


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## heidi2521 (Apr 2, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I like how nintendo innovates with everything, but I can't say I'm too pleased with their recent innovations. For me, the second screen on the WiiU is a distraction. The only real benefit I see is when 2 players want to play together, or when the TV cannot be turned on.
> If instead they had made the GamePad an optional add-on, I could consider it. I don't like extensive motion gaming (occasional accelerometer use is OK), which defeats the purpose of me getting a Wii, and I don't like 3D, which defeats the purpose of me getting a 3DS. Just because of Pokemon X & Y, I _might_ consider getting a 3DS but that's a pipe dream at present.



You sound like a person who has never really used the gamepad. Asymmetric multiplayer is awesome. Nintendo land is one of the best local multiplayer experiences i've had in a long time. Takemaru's Ninja Castle shows how the screen isn't really a distraction and can be used well in single player. Having maps and inventory on the second screen is great, it keeps your experience smooth and doesn't interrupt it. The gamepad can also be used as a non intrusive communicator. 

Having inventory and party management on the gamepad has made MH3U so much better than Tri. No more going through a long list of items to locate that one thing you need at that very moment. It is just two taps away.

Many wii games have terrible motion control, but it is a bit too much to dismiss it all. Skyward Sword makes the entire console worth it. Then  you have other games which wouldn't work without motion/pointers like Madworld, Super Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes.  Seriously, pointer shooters are awesome. Metroid Prime, Sin and Punishment and RE4 show how it can be used in shooters.  

3D, although not integral, when done right can make a game so much better to look at. I find it annoying to set the slider to 2D in SM3DL OoT 3D now.

The main problem is that whenever 3rd parties see Nintendo's innovations, they decide that they have to shoehorn it into the game, rather than letting it be an enhancement for the gameplay. Some of Nintendo's own titles for the Wii don't use motions/pointers(Radiant Dawn, The Last Story). They understand that it should be used where possible, but not shoehorned.


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## Rockstar11 (Apr 2, 2013)

Nintendo


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 2, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Ok,thats exaggeration...



I know. But they do charge devs $10k to release an update.



dead5 said:


> You sound like a person who has never really used the gamepad. Asymmetric multiplayer is awesome. Nintendo land is one of the best local multiplayer experiences i've had in a long time. Takemaru's Ninja Castle shows how the screen isn't really a distraction and can be used well in single player. Having maps and inventory on the second screen is great, it keeps your experience smooth and doesn't interrupt it. The gamepad can also be used as a non intrusive communicator.
> 
> Having inventory and party management on the gamepad has made MH3U so much better than Tri. No more going through a long list of items to locate that one thing you need at that very moment. It is just two taps away.
> 
> ...



Other than maybe for pokemon, I do not buy consoles for a single game. And while I agree with the point in bold, it is in the end the consumer whose money the devs take. So even though Nintendo isn't to blame, the consumer is not going to look at that-their wallet is on the line. So if the consumer does not see enough potential value from a console, then he won't be a release month buyer.


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## Flash (Apr 2, 2013)

Guys, focus on the FUN part of the game - in whatever you're playing. 
Leave the FIGHT to the respective companies!! 

*Period*.


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## heidi2521 (Apr 2, 2013)

Didn't polytron say that they won't patch Fez because of MS's fee? TBF Sony charges patching, updating fees too. All in the name of certification. Nintendo did do that earlier, but apparent now they have waived the fee, at least for indies. Valve had said something like they don't patch/update their games as often on consoles because of the certification process.Thats why hey prefer to just dump a whole collection of updates at once.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 3, 2013)

this is a totally subjective question which depends on your taste. but i've been a nintendo and sony fan since i was born. So i support them both, havent played nintendo for a long time ....


if i were to choose one, it would be sony. SONY has been delivering every time, with the ps1 - metal gear and gran turismo then the ps2 bam metal gear and gran turismo again, with the ps3 fiasco sony turned around the console in profit which was quite a feat. The fact is that SONY is for the gamers... wether you are the serious / casual type it has something for everyone. I'm old school and once in a while motion gaming is okay but i prefer to stick with a controller.

in one line - "SONY is at the heart of gamers what a GeForce2 ultra is to a pc user"


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## heidi2521 (Apr 3, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I know. But they do charge devs $10k to release an update.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than maybe for pokemon, I do not buy consoles for a single game. And while I agree with the point in bold, it is in the end the consumer whose money the devs take. So even though Nintendo isn't to blame, the consumer is not going to look at that-their wallet is on the line. So if the consumer does not see enough potential value from a console, then he won't be a release month buyer.



Well, Nintendo does release enough awesome games to justify their consoles. According to Iwata Asks interviews, they have even modified in development consoles for the games that are being developed for it rather than modify the game for the console. Considering Nintendo's consoles are always cheaper than their competition and the fact that they have some of the best franchises and developers, the damage to the wallet 



NoasArcAngel said:


> this is a totally subjective question which depends on your taste. but i've been a nintendo and sony fan since i was born. So i support them both,* havent played nintendo for a long time* ....
> 
> 
> if i were to choose one, it would be sony. SONY has been delivering every time, with the ps1 - metal gear and gran turismo then the ps2 bam metal gear and gran turismo again, with the ps3 fiasco sony turned around the console in profit which was quite a feat. The fact is that SONY is for the gamers... wether you are the serious / casual type it has something for everyone. I'm old school and once in a while motion gaming is okay but i prefer to stick with a controller.
> ...



Well get a Nintendo console and join in the fun. Right now the 3DS has an awesome library which makes the console worth it. If you have the cash you should consider getting a Wii U. You can catch up on all the awesome Wii titles you may have missed and play Wii U games like  Nintendoland, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, NSMBU, Lego City Undercover etc. Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 are two Platinum Games games being developed for the Wii U that show real promise. X by Monolith Soft should be awesome( A game with amazing music, massive scale, giant transforming mechs decapacitating dinosaurs by the creators of Baten Kaitos and Xenoblade Chronicles? Sign me up). 

Metal Gear(except revengeance) and GT don't mean much to me, so i can't comment on them, but Sony Smash Bros. and Sony Franchise Kart don't hold a candle to the original Super Smash Bros and Mario Kart.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 4, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Well, Nintendo does release enough awesome games to justify their consoles. According to Iwata Asks interviews, they have even modified in development consoles for the games that are being developed for it rather than modify the game for the console. Considering Nintendo's consoles are always cheaper than their competition and the fact that they have some of the best franchises and developers, the damage to the wallet
> 
> 
> Well get a Nintendo console and join in the fun. Right now the 3DS has an awesome library which makes the console worth it. If you have the cash you should consider getting a Wii U. You can catch up on all the awesome Wii titles you may have missed and play Wii U games like  Nintendoland, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, NSMBU, Lego City Undercover etc. Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 are two Platinum Games games being developed for the Wii U that show real promise. X by Monolith Soft should be awesome( A game with amazing music, massive scale, giant transforming mechs decapacitating dinosaurs by the creators of Baten Kaitos and Xenoblade Chronicles? Sign me up).
> ...




ive had nintendo consoles from the original game boy, to the nintendo DS ....and ive played the classics like legend of zelda, mario kart and pokemon.. ive had my fair share of the Wii. but i think ill stick to the ps4 / pc now.


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## ico (Apr 4, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> If instead they had made the GamePad an optional add-on, I could consider it


*Wii U Pro controller*


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## heidi2521 (Apr 4, 2013)

ico said:


> *Wii U Pro controller*



TBF, he said "If instead they had made the *GamePad an optional add-on*, I could consider it." not "If instead they had made *a normal controller an optional add-on*, I could consider it."

Knowing him though, there is probably nothing Nintendo could do to redeem themselves other than play Microsoft's and Sony's game which would certainly kill Nintendo because they don't have a giant electronics/software division which could prop them up in the initial years when they take heavy losses.


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## nat1onal (Apr 5, 2013)

Xbox 720  PS4


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## heidi2521 (Apr 7, 2013)

Found these hilarious gifs and i thought they were kinda' relevant to this thread. Nintendo PWNs.

*imageshack.us/a/img16/8297/oekcg.gif

*imageshack.us/a/img849/6673/hmnas.gif

*imageshack.us/a/img15/2175/iwatabomba.gif

*www.blisteredthumbs.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Nintendo-Fire-Iwata-BT.jpg


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## vickybat (Apr 14, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> this is a totally subjective question which depends on your taste. but i've been a nintendo and sony fan since i was born. So i support them both, havent played nintendo for a long time ....
> 
> 
> if i were to choose one, it would be sony. SONY has been delivering every time, with the ps1 - metal gear and gran turismo then the ps2 bam metal gear and gran turismo again, with the ps3 fiasco sony turned around the console in profit which was quite a feat. The fact is that SONY is for the gamers... wether you are the serious / casual type it has something for everyone. I'm old school and once in a while motion gaming is okay but i prefer to stick with a controller.
> ...



This.

Nintendo is doomed even before the fight of next gen consoles. Reason is serious lack of matured exclusive ip's and lack of 3rd party developer interest due to underpowered hardware.
It competes with current gen ps3 ad 360 and is slightly more powerful than them.
Simply cannot keep up with sony and microsoft next consoles.

Nintendo should focus on a more matured crowd and get over that mario and pokemon image.

*@ NoasArcAngel*

Did you check out the trailer of MGS V the phantom pain ?


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 14, 2013)

yup i did check the trailer for PP . its awesome ... but i think metal gear should have some interactive cutscenes and longer gameplay.. ( and it should penalize gamers for going rambo style ) 

In other news : XBLive hacked by anonymous... so much for paying monthly fee and going online to find out you cant access your accounts lol !


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 14, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> yup i did check the trailer for PP . its awesome ... but i think metal gear should have some interactive cutscenes and longer gameplay.. ( and it should penalize gamers for going rambo style )
> 
> In other news : *XBLive hacked by anonymous*... so much for paying monthly fee and going online to find out you cant access your accounts lol !




 no.It was a server outage 
btw evidence?


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 14, 2013)

vickybat said:


> This.
> 
> Nintendo is doomed even before the fight of next gen consoles. *Reason is serious lack of matured exclusive ip's and lack of 3rd party developer interest due to underpowered hardware.*
> It competes with current gen ps3 ad 360 and is slightly more powerful than them.
> ...



@*bold*:
Check their 2013-end and 2014 1st/2nd party game lineup. Some of the biggest game franchises in the world are from Nintendo. Their IPs are usually as mature, if not more mature than other competing big-budget IPs.

This is coming from a guy who hates everything Nintendo launched after the DSi (include wii in the hate list) so you know I'm not being biased towards Nintendo.

@underlined:
If Mario does not cater to the hardcore audience, then you are one of those people who either has never played Mario or dislike Mario. Hidden behind the cartoon-ish art is probably the core tenet of hardcore gaming. If you play the main series Pokemon _properly_ you will realize that it indeed does have a lot of hardcore elements to it. Maybe you didn't notice but there are lots of mechanics that hardcore trainers take advantage of to make the best pokemon possible and then they compete with each other and strive to improve.

TL;DR: You need to research your facts.


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## Nerevarine (Apr 14, 2013)

Orange vs Apple (fruit) vs Grape
Which one is better ?


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 14, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> Orange vs Apple (fruit) vs Grape
> Which one is better ?



Even for orange you need to put fruit in brackets


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## vickybat (Apr 14, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> @*bold*:
> Check their 2013-end and 2014 1st/2nd party game lineup. Some of the biggest game franchises in the world are from Nintendo. Their IPs are usually as mature, if not more mature than other competing big-budget IPs.
> 
> This is coming from a guy who hates everything Nintendo launched after the DSi (include wii in the hate list) so you know I'm not being biased towards Nintendo.
> ...



Checked their so called list. Give it a year and its underpowered hardware is going to shoo developers away and its already starting to show. Nintendo's latte gpu is grossly underpowered  & still uses ibm's powerpc (RISC) cpu whereas everybody is moving to x86 for development. Nintendo is going to be left out in the cold this way coz not only porting will be difficult but another hassle is to tone down everything for nintendo's hardware.

Games like Witcher 3 are already getting skipped for wii-u as it can't handle those next-gen engines. This is sad but true.
Comparing sony/microsoft upcoming consoles with wii-u is like comparing apples to oranges indeed.

Coming to mario, the last title i played on my brother's wii was "New super mario bros". I liked it a lot but you can't spend on a 20k+ console just for mario and the likes.
You eventually get over it. Besides indie games like "super meat boy, limbo and others are playing spoil sport for nintendo. It needs to get over that image.

Besides,i have done significant research on the facts that i put.


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## ico (Apr 14, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> @*bold*:
> Check their 2013-end and 2014 1st/2nd party game lineup. Some of the biggest game franchises in the world are from Nintendo. Their IPs are usually as mature, if not more mature than other competing big-budget IPs.
> 
> This is coming from a guy who hates everything Nintendo launched after the DSi (include wii in the hate list) so you know I'm not being biased towards Nintendo.
> ...


All what he needs to do is, compare the titles which PS3 had after 5 months to with that of Wii U. PlayStation 3 launch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Consoles shine late. Not on day #1. Whether Wii U will shine late, that's a different question.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> no.It was a server outage
> btw evidence?



it was some dumb rumour... i just wanted to undermine xboxlive 



ico said:


> All what he needs to do is, compare the titles which PS3 had after 5 months to with that of Wii U. PlayStation 3 launch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Consoles shine late. Not on day #1. Whether Wii U will shine late, that's a different question.



they do shine late, but in this generation of console wars, Wii-U is diminishing i wont be surprised if at the end of the year when the nextbox and the ps4 release the Wii-U will be beaten to pulp. the wii sold because it was innovative, with wii-u nintendo has provided me with nothing more than an secondary tv

secondly with the new x86 based h/w and developer centric approach. SONY is already cashing in on its successful IP's like killzone and new IP drive club which will come out on release not to mention in 1 year of its launch expecting 1 uncharted and in 2 years 1 gran turismo. This way you are looking at 20million console sales in <3 years when the best is about to come. Also add to that numerous amount of 3rd party games like BF4 etc. 




Extreme Gamer said:


> @*bold*:
> Check their 2013-end and 2014 1st/2nd party game lineup. Some of the biggest game franchises in the world are from Nintendo. Their IPs are usually as mature, if not more mature than other competing big-budget IPs.
> 
> This is coming from a guy who hates everything Nintendo launched after the DSi (include wii in the hate list) so you know I'm not being biased towards Nintendo.
> ...



probably mario and pokemon are on the top of the highest selling games list. but if you compare it to the likes of half-life.......... need i say more ?

apart from that pokemon has been there snice 1996, and mario since 1981.... only gran turismo (1997) and metal gear series (1987) are the ones which come close to their age. 

i think that nintendo thrived on small kids playing mario and pokemon, but since i started playing pokemon at the age of 6 there has been a vast change in the mindset of people here in india... so im assuming that the western generation is 1 step ahead. Nowadays i see 7-8 year olds playing hardcore titles like call of duty, uncharted, need for speed etc...

im putting up this stats as a proof to support my reasoning 

*img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/Trunkswd/VGChartz/MarioChart.png

in 1985 mario sold the maximum, and in 2009 its dropping ... there is only so much you can do with 1 character probably time for mario to retire..


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

vickybat said:


> This.
> 
> Nintendo is doomed even before the fight of next gen consoles. Reason is serious lack of matured exclusive ip's and lack of 3rd party developer interest due to underpowered hardware.
> It competes with current gen ps3 ad 360 and is slightly more powerful than them.
> ...





vickybat said:


> Checked their so called list. Give it a year and its underpowered hardware is going to shoo developers away and its already starting to show. Nintendo's latte gpu is grossly underpowered  & still uses ibm's powerpc (RISC) cpu whereas everybody is moving to x86 for development. Nintendo is going to be left out in the cold this way coz not only porting will be difficult but another hassle is to tone down everything for nintendo's hardware.
> 
> Games like Witcher 3 are already getting skipped for wii-u as it can't handle those next-gen engines. This is sad but true.
> Comparing sony/microsoft upcoming consoles with wii-u is like comparing apples to oranges indeed.
> ...



Which world have you reached in NSMB Wii(by far the easiest game in the series)?

Saying SMB and Limbo are even close to the quality of Mario titles is insanity. They are extremely linear games suited to exactly one playstyle while the Mario games cater to multiple.

I'll take it that you have never played a mainline 3D Mario like 64, Galaxy, Galaxy 2 & 3D Land. You mustn't have played Mario Kart much either. Or the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series. 

EA isn't supporting the Wii U because Nintendo didn't let them run Origin on Nintendo Network. Deep Silver never supports new platforms. The Wii U marks the best western 3rd party support Nintendo has got since the SNES.
Nintendo has the support of Ubisoft, Warner Bros, Activision and Disney to name a few.
The Japanese Dev reaction to the PS4 was 'Meh'. Namco Tales(best non-nintendo RPG devs), Platinum(best action game dev), Atlus, Nippon Ichi, Temco Koei, Namco Tekken(best fighting game dev), Marvellous AQL, Capcom etc. have all said that they love the Wii U.

There was no support from western devs for the 3DS and a lot of support for the Vita, yet look at where they are now.

Nintendo has plenty of Hardcore franchises. To name a few:

Smash Bros
Fire Emblem
The Legend of Zelda
The 'Xeno' series
Advance Wars
Battalion Wars
Kid Icarus
Golden Sun
Metroid
Pikmin(don't be fooled by the cutesy graphics)
Luigis Mansion

Nintendo has exclusive rights to the Monster Hunter franchise. The Wii U version will be the best version of Resident Evil: Revelations. They rescued Bayonetta 2 from cancellation. They have Platinum Games on board their console. Rayman Legends will have much more content on the Wii U than other consoles. Their consoles get the mainline SMT games. All these don't look like signs of a casual console to me.

In fall 2013/summer 2014 we will probably be getting Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Mario Kart, a 3D Mario, Super Smash Bros 4, possibly 'X', Retros secret project, Rayman Legends etc. Nintendo has a habit of announcing titles as little as 2 months before they are released and they have confirmed that they will announce even more titles at E3 so there will be much more to come.

Nobody expects you to pay 20k+ just for Mario. You have a shitload of other games like Xenoblade Chronicles, Metroid Prime, Mario Kart, The Last Story, The Legend of Zelda, Pandoras Tower, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem etc. for the console.

Nintendo may strike big with its casual games but it lives and dies by its hardcore ones.

You can expect games that would be too expensive to develop for the western consoles to be developed for the Wii U, as it happened with The Last Story, REmake, MHTri, Okami etc. and the Wii. this gen.


Even if the Wii U fails to take off they have the 3DS supporting them, which is on track to do PS2 numbers, even before a Mainline Pokemon was released for the console.

Did you really research your facts?


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Even if the Wii U fails to take off they have the 3DS supporting them, which is on track to do PS2 numbers, even before a Mainline Pokemon was released for the console.
> 
> Did you really research your facts?



3DS is a portable device, if it reaches the numbers of the ps2 its a joke for 3DS. its like the sales performance of Wii-U versus the ps4 and the nextbox.

EDIT :

also think this will drop, with vita's rising popularity and nintendo cutting sales forecast for 3DS.... tides are about change ... embrace the dark side.


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> 3DS is a portable device, if it reaches the numbers of the ps2 its a joke for 3DS. its like the sales performance of Wii-U versus the ps4 and the nextbox.
> 
> EDIT :
> 
> also think this will drop, with vita's rising popularity and nintendo cutting sales forecast for 3DS.... tides are about change ... embrace the dark side.



The DS is the only console which has outsold the PS2. The Vita's popularity rose in Japan because they sharply cut the price and is still **** everywhere else. If the Vita continues to sell at the current rate it will take it ~500 weeks to catch up to the 3DS given that the 3DS doesn't any more units at all. The tide will not turn. Japan loves its Shin Megami Tensei, Monster Hunter, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Tomodachi Collection and Pokemon of which SMT is the only one with a real chance to go the Vita. Nintendo is making money for each 3DS sold while Sony is losing money for each Vita sold. You can't compete against the power of Pokemon in the west.

I don't think that the Wii U will do PS4 numbers but that doesn't change the fact that the 3DS is making a killing for Nintendo. Nintendo loses ~$20 for every Wii U. Sony is expected to lose $100 - $200 on every PS4. I'll be surprised if the western consoles take off like the SNES/PS2/Wii. This generational transition will be a long one with most games coming out on both gens. 

Overall, the Wii U will offer more great and unique experiences than the PS4, making it a better console than the PS4. I'd like to see something like Yarn Yoshi, TW101 and X on the PS4. 



Spoiler



It won't happen


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> The DS is the only console which has outsold the PS2. The Vita's popularity rose in Japan because they sharply cut the price and is still **** everywhere else. If the Vita continues to sell at the current rate it will take it ~500 weeks to catch up to the 3DS given that the 3DS doesn't any more units at all. The tide will not turn. Japan loves its Shin Megami Tensei, Monster Hunter, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Tomodachi Collection and Pokemon of which SMT is the only one with a real chance to go the Vita. Nintendo is making money for each 3DS sold while Sony is losing money for each Vita sold. You can't compete against the power of Pokemon in the west.
> 
> I don't think that the Wii U will do PS4 numbers but that doesn't change the fact that the 3DS is making a killing for Nintendo. Nintendo loses ~$20 for every Wii U. Sony is expected to lose $100 - $200 on every PS4. I'll be surprised if the western consoles take off like the SNES/PS2/Wii. This generational transition will be a long one with most games coming out on both gens.
> 
> ...



i was keeping in mind the 100million number.. only Japan loves .............................. only Japan not the rest of the world. So i think you should rest your theories about how pikmin is poised for a worldwide takeover in our living rooms, and start worrying about the future of nintendo.

SONY will not lose more than 100$ / ps4, apart from that the ps3 sold 77million pieces AFAIK, so if the same ps2 cycle continues the ps3 will sell atleast 
120million. 

secondly because consoles like the ps3 and the xbox have a large life span almost 8 years, whatever they lose they make up for it in 200% .... 

great and unique experiences ? i remember the xbox e3 conference where they said the same thing and released kinect...you know the rest of the story.

im always open, so show me how the Wii-U is more VFM than a ps4 and ill buy 2 ..

The vita will sell, if not today... the numbers will pick up slowly and i bet it will end up selling at least 40-50 million pieces

SONY has clearly changed the rules of the game this time going with a more developer centric approach. And i believe that the ps2 times are back for SONY. after all it only does everything.


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> i was keeping in mind the 100million number.. only Japan loves .............................. only Japan not the rest of the world. So i think you should rest your theories about how pikmin is poised for a worldwide takeover in our living rooms, and start worrying about the future of nintendo.
> 
> SONY will not lose more than 100$ / ps4, apart from that the ps3 sold 77million pieces AFAIK, so if the same ps2 cycle continues the ps3 will sell atleast
> 120million.
> ...



I never said pikmin will take over the world and admitted that the PS4 will probably do better than the Wii U in the west at least because of the fact that sony sold out to western developers giving japanese ones the shaft. 

The 3DS is also killing it in the west, although not as well as Japan. The 3DS is the best selling console in France and Germany too. Pokemon will give 3DS sales a massive bump. Animal Crossing and Nintendogs are really popular in the west too. I concentrated on Japan because Japanese trends are usually indicative of western trends in the handheld space.

I agree that they will make how much ever they lose on the PS4.  

The Wii has sold 100 mn+ and if Nintendo didn't kill it it would have sold 120 - 130 mn. 

For great and unique experiences look no further than The Wonderful 101, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD, Bayonetta 2, Monolith Soft's X, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Yarn Yoshi, Rayman Legends Murfy Sections, Nintendoland, NSMBU, Super Smash Brother 4, Zombi U, Lego City Undercover, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem and whatever nintendo may decide to announce. In unannounced titles you have the inevitable 3D Mario and Legend of Zelda games which should be mind blowing even if they are only half as good as SMG2 & SS. Retro(Metroid Prime series, Donkey Kong Country Returns) is working on a secret project for the Wii U that is supposed to be really great. Using the gamepad as the PDA in Watch_Dogs will be awesome, like using the gamepad as the Batputer in Arkham City/Origins is. Nintendo's first party titles are usually some of the best games games in the world and japanese devs make better games than western devs. Split Screen without screen sharing in SALSRT is pretty cool and the ball mode is awesome. You can have your fighters cosplay as Mario, Link, Capt. Falcon, Zelda etc. in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U edition and the Mushroom Mode is pure awesome.

On the sony camp you have linear semi casual shooters like Killzone, casual racers like Drive Club and GT and Infamous: Second Son. Most games for it will be there on PC too therefore not making it as VFM as the Wii U where you will have some amazing and mind blowing experiences.

Nintendo's best consoles are usually the ones that don't sell very well. The N64(Ocarina of Time, Majoras Mask, SM64) & GC(Wind Waker, Smash Melee, Pikmin, Twilight Princess) had much better games than the PS2 and PS1. The best games for the Wii came after the hordes of casuals stopped buying it. 

Nintendo always makes enough games for its consoles that make it worth buying. The Wii U is a better value proposition unless you are a filthy casual/semi-casual who doesn't own a decent PC.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

after ur comment i have understood why nintendo is gonna lose


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

Killzone is semi casual. Nintendo has more IPs of better quality that will never be on any other platform. Nintendo is constantly developing new ideas and concepts which you don't see on other platforms. Sony games rarely have the amount of replayability, variation, charm and polish that Nintendo games have. They tried to copy Nintendo's best franchises and failed multiple times. (See sony smash. bros and sony kart for recent examples). The best studio sony has working on the PS4 would be Media Molecule or Polyphony Digital, which don't stand up to Platinum, EAD Tokyo, Retro, Monolith Soft etc. working on the Wii U.


----------



## ico (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> with vita's rising popularity


since when?

Wii U has still sold more units than uhm Vita. lol.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

ico said:


> since when?
> 
> Wii U has still sold more units than uhm Vita. lol.



In Japan(which doesn't matter according to NoasArcAngel). After cutting the price to ~20,000 yen its baseline moved up from 8k - 10k to 15k - 18k. We will know the true baseline a week or two after we get golden week numbers. The Wii U has sold ~4mil compared to 2.5mil for the Vita in a much shorter period.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

so much for using google right 

Vita Outsells 3DS in Japan, Strong Sales Continue - IGN


*www.geeky-gadgets.com/playstation-vita-price-drop-boosts-sales-dramatically-in-us-18-03-2013/






dead5 said:


> Killzone is semi casual. Nintendo has more IPs of better quality that will never be on any other platform. Nintendo is constantly developing new ideas and concepts which you don't see on other platforms. Sony games rarely have the amount of replayability, variation, charm and polish that Nintendo games have. They tried to copy Nintendo's best franchises and failed multiple times. (See sony smash. bros and sony kart for recent examples). The best studio sony has working on the PS4 would be Media Molecule or Polyphony Digital, which don't stand up to Platinum, EAD Tokyo, Retro, Monolith Soft etc. working on the Wii U.




i dont understand how killzone is a semi-casual ? secondly how is gran turismo a casual racing game ? if you dont know about it dont type it. better to keep quiet than making a fool of yourself.

really? after 10+ years of mario and zelda and pikachu im bored to death, and no i dont want to hack and slash zombies while riding around in a stupid cart... got anything else?


----------



## ico (Apr 15, 2013)

Already knew about it.  A surge after a price drop means rising popularity? naah. Vita is a failure for a handheld. Been more than a year.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

plz visit this link and then revise your statements accordingly. Thanks 

Gamer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



ico said:


> Already knew about it.  A surge after a price drop means rising popularity? naah. Vita is a failure for a handheld. Been more than a year.



yes we will see... i bet you were also predicting the downfall of the ps3.


----------



## ico (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> yes we will see... i bet you were also predicting the downfall of the ps3.


Naah. Never.

Always preferred it over Wii/Xbox 360 till Sony pissed me off by advertising and then turning Other OS off. And storing passwords for many services in plaintext. Incompetency.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

ico said:


> Naah. Never.
> 
> Always preferred it over Wii/Xbox 360.



*1stforprint.co.uk/ebaylistings/ilovemy/ILoveMyPSVita_mug.jpg


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> so much for using google right
> 
> Vita Outsells 3DS in Japan, Strong Sales Continue - IGN
> 
> ...



Those were Media Create numbers while Famitsu reported that the sales were on par. Right now the Vita sells 20k per week with week on week decline and 3DS sells 60 - 65k stable.

Killzone is semi casual because of the extremely low skill level. GT is casual because of the same. If you've played Mario Kart on anything above 50cc you will know what I mean about skill. Please win a gold trophy in Star Cup in 150cc before claiming that the Karts are stupid and GT is not casual. If for you "Bloody Screen So Real" type games are not casual, then nothing is.

Every Zelda game plays differently. They are in the same franchise because they share the same universe, tropes & genres. ZombiU isn't a zombie hack n slash like dead rising. It is more of a Survival Horror game where you are supposed to avoid them. Your best weapon is a cricket bat and you don't shoot accurately because you haven't got access guns earlier and have no training with it. Super Mario 3D Land, NSMB, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi RPG, Mario Party etc. are in the same franchise because they star the same character. All of them play differently and are in different genres. Intelligent Systems may be working on a new Advance Wars title for the Wii U now that they are done with Awakening. DX:HR for the Wii U will be awesome because it can be used for hacking. 

Nintendo has said that whenever they develop a new idea they see if it is compatible with an existing franchise. If it is they release it under that, otherwise they create a new IP. It is extremely stupid to dismiss the entire Mario meta-franchise because you don't think NSMBWii is hardcore. 

Each Pokemon game has significant changes to the gameplay making it even better with every release. Black & White was a total overhaul that refined and improved the Pokemon formula a lot and X & Y look like they will be even better. 

BTW, congratulations on ignoring most of my list.



> The Wonderful 101, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD, Bayonetta 2, Monolith Soft's X, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Yarn Yoshi, Rayman Legends Murfy Sections, Nintendoland, NSMBU, Super Smash Brother 4, Zombi U, Lego City Undercover, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem and whatever nintendo may decide to announce. In unannounced titles you have the inevitable 3D Mario and Legend of Zelda games which should be mind blowing even if they are only half as good as SMG2 & SS. Retro(Metroid Prime series, Donkey Kong Country Returns) is working on a secret project for the Wii U that is supposed to be really great. Using the gamepad as the PDA in Watch_Dogs will be awesome, like using the gamepad as the Batputer in Arkham City/Origins is. Nintendo's first party titles are usually some of the best games games in the world and japanese devs make better games than western devs. Split Screen without screen sharing in SALSRT is pretty cool and the ball mode is awesome. You can have your fighters cosplay as Mario, Link, Capt. Falcon, Zelda etc. in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U edition and the Mushroom Mode is pure awesome





ico said:


> Naah. Never.
> 
> Always preferred it over Wii/Xbox 360 till Sony pissed me off by advertising and then turning Other OS off. And storing passwords for many services in plaintext. Incompetency.



And interrupting your game when you are playing asking you to update to boot.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

*oi42.tinypic.com/358zz3k.jpg

ahaha mario kart? i bet you cant finish getting a licence in gt5 forget about playing the game  google if you dont know what that means


you are lucky im not posting this on reddit or 4chan......  this is so hilarious  nintendo fanboy claiming killzone is easy.... AHAHAHAHAHAHA

i dont think u read what i wrote :



> after 10+ years of mario and zelda and pikachu im bored to death, and no i dont want to hack and slash zombies while riding around in a stupid cart... got anything else?



*wiiudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/wii-u-comic.jpg

dont mind the memes they are just for fun... this arguement is pointless because clearly you dont any SONY software title. guessing by the looks of it you havent even played any.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> *oi42.tinypic.com/358zz3k.jpg
> 
> ahaha mario kart? i bet you cant finish getting a licence in gt5 forget about playing the game  google if you dont know what that means
> 
> ...



What aids in Mario Kart? Shells, Boosts, Bullet Bills etc. make the game harder not easier by adding another layer to it. It may be easier to enter Mario Kart but it is nigh impossible to master it. GT has a much lower skill ceiling than Mario Kart. 

Killzone isn't as easy as Call of Duty or Battlefield so I listed it as Semi-casual not casual. Compare it to something hardcore like Quake or Metroid Prime and you'll get what i mean. I read your post and spent a large amount of my previous post replying to it. I pointed out that each TLoZ and Mario play differently and it is stupid to dismiss them all based on one. I pointed out that pokemon has changed a lot over the years with B&W being an extremely large overhaul and X&Y even larger. I pointed out that Zombi U isn't a Zombie hack n slash game but a survival horror one where you need to avoid zombies rather than shoot/chainsaw thes a la Dead Rising/Left 4 Dead. I pointed out that my list contains games that are not Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda or ZombiU, but you decided 
to ignore them. 

Believe it or not i am quite active on Reddit.

I've played Sony titles including Uncharted, Little Big Planet, GT, Killzone, Infamous, Rachet & Clank and Wipeout. I don't dismiss games I've not played.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> What aids in Mario Kart? Shells, Boosts, Bullet Bills etc. make the game harder not easier by adding another layer to it. It may be easier to enter Mario Kart but it is nigh impossible to master it. GT has a much lower skill ceiling than Mario Kart.
> 
> Killzone isn't as easy as Call of Duty or Battlefield so I listed it as Semi-casual not casual. Compare it to something hardcore like Quake or Metroid Prime and you'll get what i mean. I read your post and spent a large amount of my previous post replying to it. I pointed out that each TLoZ and Mario play differently and it is stupid to dismiss them all based on one. I pointed out that pokemon has changed a lot over the years with B&W being an extremely large overhaul and X&Y even larger. I pointed out that Zombi U isn't a Zombie hack n slash game but a survival horror one where you need to avoid zombies rather than shoot/chainsaw thes a la Dead Rising/Left 4 Dead. I pointed out that my list contains games that are not Mario, Pokemon, Legend of Zelda or ZombiU, but you decided
> to ignore them.
> ...



really, which level did you reach in gran turismo ? quake ...... and learning curve ? omg. 

**** dude, i dont want a ban.... thats why i wont reply here.  but im laughing really really hard right now..... like real hard .... my stomach has started paining


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

I don't own GT myself but i gave it a try at my friends home. I believe i did the Japanese cup over there. If you read my posts, you know that i consider Polyphony Digital a good studio, Just not as good as the EADs which develops Mario Kart.

Quake does have a learning curve if you play online. It may not be as steep as Monster Hunter but it is there. Don't expect me to believe you mastered the movement and weapons of Quake the moment you started. You actually need to be careful with your health and keep note where the health packs are because you can't just take cover and automatically heal. You can't take cover and hide from enemies because they will skirt around and kill you. You don't have a fixed corridor to go through and you have to move about the arena carefully to kill and not get killed. If you make a small mistake in a good server in Quake you can be instantaneously killed. Quake is definitely hardcore and certainly more hardcare than Killzone. 

Tell me, what is the best cup you've won in MK? Which galaxy you've reached in SMG? Which dungeon have you cleared in the last Legend of Zelda game you played? Which world you've reached in NSMBWii? How far across london have you gotten in Zombi U? Or have you even played the games you are dismissing?


----------



## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

ico said:


> since when?
> 
> Wii U has still sold more units than uhm Vita. lol.



Lol really!!

*SONY’S PS VITA COMEBACK CONTINUES AS WII U FAILS*



NoasArcAngel said:


> really, which level did you reach in gran turismo ? quake ...... and learning curve ? omg.
> 
> **** dude, i dont want a ban.... thats why i wont reply here.  but im laughing really really hard right now..... like real hard .... my stomach has started paining



Same here.  I really couldn't help laughing when i heard comments like "killzone is semi casual" and "Mario galaxy" is hardcore.


All wii-u lovers try to answer the following:

*Will The Wii U Survive?*


----------



## d3p (Apr 15, 2013)

For me Sony any day..

I modify my PSP with Custom Firmware & now it runs games for free.

Looking forward for a J-Tag PS3 for GT5 & few racing titles.

I don't know but Wii can't handle that..


----------



## ico (Apr 15, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Lol really!!
> 
> *SONY’S PS VITA COMEBACK CONTINUES AS WII U FAILS*


erm lol really what?

PS Vita sold 3 million in more than a year. Wii U sold 4 million in 4 months.

Said a lot of times - handhelds are history. iOS/Android is where handheld games are these days. 3DS will be the last handheld which sold well.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

ico said:


> erm lol really what?
> 
> PS Vita sold 3 million in more than a year. Wii U sold 4 million in 4 months.
> 
> Said a lot of times - handhelds are history. iOS/Android is where handheld games are these days. 3DS will be the last handheld which sold well.



I was talking about current sales. Vita was very expensive at launch but its not now. Its outselling the wii-u now which was the whole point.

Vita will sell and its showing now. I won't be surprised if it catches 3ds. But your point on future handheld gaming with Android and the likes is true though.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Lol really!!
> 
> *SONY’S PS VITA COMEBACK CONTINUES AS WII U FAILS*
> 
> ...



Dude, have you even played Super Mario Galaxy?

The Vita has sold between 2.5mil - 3mil while the Wii U has sold over 4mil.

Nintendo's Wii U division has already made money for them while the Vita division hasn't broken even.

The Wii U will survive. It has the full force of Nintendo behind it. Namco, Capcom, Temco Koei, Atlus et al have pledged support for the console. You have Warner, Ubi, Acti and Disney on board. The 3DS got nil western dev support, yet look at where it is now. Compare that to the Vita for which a lot of Western Devs were promising games.

EA was going to support the console until they decided they wanted Origin on Nintendo Network and Nintendo said no to that.

The Wii U may not have large numbers but it has a high attach rate so the Wii U division is making money already. Nintendo had said that they just need to sell one FP game of 2 TP games to make each unit profitable. This is not counting the eshop. 

Nintendo has shown that it can turn consoles around. See: Gameboy Advance, DS, 3DS. They survived and their games kicked ass on the N64 and Gamecube. 

@d3p _somethingsomething_piracy_something_devmoney[/something]

Lets see the PS3 get games like SMG, Skyward Sword, Sin & Punishment, Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story and Metroid Prime.



Seriously, give the Wii U a try. I personally didn't expect it to be this awesome. I bought it because there was no way i was willing to miss on the Legend of Zelda, Platinum Games', Retro Studios' and Monolith Soft's projects, 3D Mario, Monster Hunter and Rayman Legends. Nintendoland, Lego City Undercover, ZombiU etc. were unexpected, surprisingly good bonuses. Asymmetrical multiplayer is really a lot of fun. Off TV play is great too. Its low power draw(75W max TDP) means that i can play for hours into a power cut off my UPS. 

@Vita's rear touchpad 



vickybat said:


> I was talking about current sales. Vita was very expensive at launch but its not now. Its outselling the wii-u now which was the whole point.
> 
> Vita will sell and its showing now. I won't be surprised if it catches 3ds. But your point on future handheld gaming with Android and the likes is true though.



It is barely outselling the Wii U and that is in Japan only. The Wii U will cross the Vita sales next week if the decline continues as it is right now. The Wii U outsold the Vita in Europe in march inspite of a long drought with no games(6 weeks+). At the current rate it will take the Vita 500 weeks to catch up to the 3DS given that the 3DS doesn't move any more units. Android and IOS will not destroy handheld gaming until they get uniform hardware, dedicated buttons and full games like SMTSO, Super Mario 3D Land, Fire Emblem, Shinobi, The Legend of Zelda etc.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

just so you know before you go on a posting ramage, about zelda, mario and all that 

Wii-U boat torpedoes Nintendo's '¥20bn profit' into ¥20bn loss ? The Register



dead5 said:


> Dude, have you even played Super Mario Galaxy?
> 
> The Vita has sold between 2.5mil - 3mil while the Wii U has sold over 4mil.
> 
> ...



lets get down to it.. shall we... its a question of honor  (rampage mode activated)

1.  *www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/30/nintendo_turns_profit_to_loss_as_wii_u_stalls/

2. EA is a game publisher which is pretty sad, but still carries around a lot of weight with many titles like sims and battlefield


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> just so you know before you go on a posting ramage, about zelda, mario and all that
> 
> Wii-U boat torpedoes Nintendo's '¥20bn profit' into ¥20bn loss ? The Register



Nintendo's financial report indicates that the 20bn loss included a large write off, the development costs of their unreleased games and the R&D cost of the Wii U. The Wii U division is making money but hasn't recouped all the initial costs.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I don't own GT myself but i gave it a try at my friends home. I believe i did the Japanese cup over there. If you read my posts, you know that i consider Polyphony Digital a good studio, Just not as good as the EADs which develops Mario Kart.
> 
> Quake does have a learning curve if you play online. It may not be as steep as Monster Hunter but it is there. Don't expect me to believe you mastered the movement and weapons of Quake the moment you started. You actually need to be careful with your health and keep note where the health packs are because you can't just take cover and automatically heal. You can't take cover and hide from enemies because they will skirt around and kill you. You don't have a fixed corridor to go through and you have to move about the arena carefully to kill and not get killed. If you make a small mistake in a good server in Quake you can be instantaneously killed. Quake is definitely hardcore and certainly more hardcare than Killzone.
> 
> Tell me, what is the best cup you've won in MK? Which galaxy you've reached in SMG? Which dungeon have you cleared in the last Legend of Zelda game you played? Which world you've reached in NSMBWii? How far across london have you gotten in Zombi U? Or have you even played the games you are dismissing?



if you dont own gt yourself, then you dont say. just pass the driving test plz. Polyphony digital is more than a studio FYI . If you are considering games with learning curves then cs 1.6 the best one, alongwith dota and racing games like grid and simulators like gran turismo. It hardly takes 2~4 hours to get used to the weapons mechanics and all. Killzone and quake are on 2 different sides. killzone multiplayer is in a league of its own. you cant say,  no health packs so therefore its not hardcore. Just look up hardcore gaming and see what it means first. I dont play mortal kombat, i havent played SMG, zelda, NSMBWii and zombi U if a game has 20+ hours of gameplay or has a complex storyline doesnt mean its hardcore. Thats like saying if need for speed had 200 hours of gameplay it would be hardcore. I have played mario kart and its not all that difficult you claim it to be.

if i want to play a zombie game, why wont i chose left 4 dead. ? or dead island? you are trying to justify that nintendo titles are for hardcore gamers, the fact is they are not... you are using the complex storyline and deep characters to read the game as hardcore. If you want hardcore then play Final Fantasy or play metal gear solid and hitman series and skyrim .. that is hardcore. 

With each level of metal gear solid there are so many ways you can achieve the same goals, same with hitman 



dead5 said:


> Nintendo's financial report indicates that the 20bn loss included a large write off, the development costs of their unreleased games and the R&D cost of the Wii U. The Wii U division is making money but hasn't recouped all the initial costs.



yes.. so ? the point was that by the time this turns into a profit for nintendo it will be too late.


----------



## d3p (Apr 15, 2013)

Cut the crap, every game parlour, who owns either a Modded PS2 or modded PS3 charging 10-15bucks a hours never heard of Wii !.....nailed

Long Gone those good Wild Summer Vacations with Super Nintendo 16bit...


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

ico said:


> erm lol really what?
> 
> PS Vita sold 3 million in more than a year. Wii U sold 4 million in 4 months.
> 
> Said a lot of times - handhelds are history. iOS/Android is where handheld games are these days. 3DS will be the last handheld which sold well.



not exactly, with the ps4 and vita integration it will change. handhelds are here to stay.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> just so you know before you go on a posting ramage, about zelda, mario and all that
> 
> Wii-U boat torpedoes Nintendo's '¥20bn profit' into ¥20bn loss ? The Register
> 
> ...



I accept that the Wii U won't get the most sales this console gen, but has a lot of Japanese support and awesome FP games coming for it which justify the console. AFAIK Konami is the only major Japanese publisher who hasn't commented on the Wii U. Pretty much everyone else said that the console is awesome and that the gamepad lets them do things they couldn't do before. Sega said that it was very impressed by the Wii U and has fantastic developments for it. Platinum Games has said that the Wii U is an amazing piece of kit very easy to develop for that offers a lot of new gameplay opportunity. Namco Tales has said that they love the console but don't have any games in the pipeline right now because they are working on the western release of Tales of Xilla.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I accept that the Wii U won't get the most sales this console gen, but has a lot of Japanese support and awesome FP games coming for it which justify the console. AFAIK Konami is the only major Japanese publisher who hasn't commented on the Wii U. Pretty much everyone else said that the console is awesome and that the gamepad lets them do things they couldn't do before. Sega said that it was very impressed by the Wii U and has fantastic developments for it. Platinum Games has said that the Wii U is an amazing piece of kit very easy to develop for that offers a lot of new gameplay opportunity. Namco Tales has said that they love the console but don't have any games in the pipeline right now because they are working on the western release of Tales of Xilla.



you notice something? you are using the word "japanese" a lot. There are 100+ other countries in the world apart from japan and make up 99.9999% of the population. They all say this... but its not the same thing. Video games are mainly sold in America and Europe, basically these countries / continents are the ones which drive sales. granted wii was a fantastic revolution at its time, but now its not the same thing

if you dont have the particular audience for a game how will it sell ? have you seen the recent shift? call of duty games used to be based on the world war era, but they changed it with cod 4 and its huge reception...shows is a change in the mental attitude of the gamers , we dont want old... same characters... bull **** stories .. People want change . A major reason for sales of ps3 Ip's was their freshness. Uncharted brought in a new experience.... AAA hollywood movie style cinematic and story line, awesome graphics and good multiplayer.

with nintendo all i am seeing is their past 10 years creations are bearing fruit. 99% of the people here wouldnt like to play mario and zelda if they had the time / resources. Its not the time period for it anymore. in the 1980's the difference was that majority of the people who bought video games were kids and teens... not adults. And if you check wikipedia, the average age of the gamer is 30 in america and 23 in USA, so i dont think 30 year olds will want to play zelda. 

thats the reason that games like call of duty, gears of war and other games sweep the ground. games like battlefield are much more intensive and sell a lot better because there is a huge market for such people. 

for people who want light gaming do buy nintendo, so do kids. but this is changing the rapid evolution in the society has brought a revolution with games which are closer to reality. David cage himself said that he would like for the gamers to experience real emotion with the game. If nintendo Wii-U was such a big revolution why did not he go to nintendo ? 

nintendo caters for kids and casual audience... you may not want to accept it but this is the truth. And the casual market segment is quickly losing out to smartphones and tablets, soon with wireless output companies like nintendo will lose their battles to them.


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 15, 2013)

Edited


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> you might want to edit that post



its not illegal to modify a psp. he isnt posting warez links... dude .... seriously..


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 15, 2013)

Edited...


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> nintendo caters for kids and casual audience... you may not want to accept it but this is the truth. And the casual market segment is quickly losing out to smartphones and tablets, soon with wireless output companies like nintendo will lose their battles to them.



you can mark my words, if nintendo does not soon enough start changing how it makes games, and for whom it makes games... its not here to stay very long


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## d3p (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> you can mark my words, if nintendo does not soon enough start changing how it makes games, and for whom it makes games... its not here to stay very long



Nintendo make games for Jal-Pan-Neas.

Sony vs Rest of the ConsoleMakers

*2.bp.blogspot.com/-OtsFZ17amyY/TWan4xLI2rI/AAAAAAAABaQ/Vt-JVTjXjes/s1600/2.gif


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> if you dont own gt yourself, then you dont say. just pass the driving test plz. Polyphony digital is more than a studio FYI . If you are considering games with learning curves then cs 1.6 the best one, alongwith dota and racing games like grid and simulators like gran turismo. It hardly takes 2~4 hours to get used to the weapons mechanics and all. Killzone and quake are on 2 different sides. killzone multiplayer is in a league of its own. you cant say,  no health packs so therefore its not hardcore. Just look up hardcore gaming and see what it means first. I dont play mortal kombat, i havent played SMG, zelda, NSMBWii and zombi U if a game has 20+ hours of gameplay or has a complex storyline doesnt mean its hardcore. Thats like saying if need for speed had 200 hours of gameplay it would be hardcore. I have played mario kart and its not all that difficult you claim it to be.
> 
> if i want to play a zombie game, why wont i chose left 4 dead. ? or dead island? you are trying to justify that nintendo titles are for hardcore gamers, the fact is they are not... you are using the complex storyline and deep characters to read the game as hardcore. If you want hardcore then play Final Fantasy or play metal gear solid and hitman series and skyrim .. that is hardcore.
> 
> ...



Quake is more hardcore than Killzone because it is more difficult and has a higher skill ceiling. Have you played MK in 150/100cc? It is definitely harder than GT. If you think Mario Kart is easy please come first place in Rainbow Road while playing on 150cc. Just because Mario Kart has an easy mode doesn't mean it is not hard core.

My point was that Zombi U isn't like Dead Island or Left 4 Dead. It is closer to Resident Evil 1 and Day Z. It is one where you concentrate on survival rather than killing zombies. One is action and the other is Survival Horror. In Zombi U you move slowly, don't have ultra powerful weapons to blast zombies off and must rely on your senses to survive. One Zombie bite is enough to kill you. If you try and go on a Zombie blasting spree then you will die. 

I define hardcore games that require a lot of skill and patience to master. I agree that MGS and Hitman are Hardcore. GT and Killzone aren't. Nintendo has games for hardcore gamers. Their core games, especially on the Wii U are targeted towards them. If your top 5 best selling games include Zombi U and Monster Hunter then you are anything but casual. Xenoblade Chronicles is hardcore, The Last Story is hardcore, Pandoras Tower is hardcore. Shin Megami Tensei is hardcore. Fire Emblem is hardcore. Golden Sun is hardcore. Sin & Punishment is hardcore. Baten Kaitos is hardcore. Advance Wars is hardcore. Battalion Wars is hardcore. Kid Icarus is hardcore. Pokemon Conquest is hardcore. The Wonderful 101 is hardcore. Metroid is hardcore. Metroid Prime is hardcore. Super Smash Brothers is hardcore.

Nintendo has plenty of hardcore games. You just choose to ignore them.  

I certainly am not using complex story lines and deep characters to define a game as hardcore. If i was then Mario and Pokemon would never be considered hardcore.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

d3p said:


> Nintendo make games for Jal-Pan-Neas.
> 
> Sony vs Rest of the ConsoleMakers
> 
> *2.bp.blogspot.com/-OtsFZ17amyY/TWan4xLI2rI/AAAAAAAABaQ/Vt-JVTjXjes/s1600/2.gif



 OMFG ! AHAHAHA EPIC !



dead5 said:


> Quake is more hardcore than Killzone because it is more difficult and has a higher skill ceiling. Have you played MK in 150/100cc? It is definitely harder than GT. If you think Mario Kart is easy please come first place in Rainbow Road while playing on 150cc. Just because Mario Kart has an easy mode doesn't mean it is not hard core.
> 
> My point was that Zombi U isn't like Dead Island or Left 4 Dead. It is closer to Resident Evil 1 and Day Z. It is one where you concentrate on survival rather than killing zombies. One is action and the other is Survival Horror. In Zombi U you move slowly, don't have ultra powerful weapons to blast zombies off and must rely on your senses to survive. One Zombie bite is enough to kill you. If you try and go on a Zombie blasting spree then you will die.
> 
> ...



yes mario and pokemon are _NOT_ hardcore


wait gran turismo isnt hardcore? wait  



take a look at this. do this in +/- 20s of this guys time and ill agree, post a screenshot or it never happened

who told you that quake has a higher skill ceiling? its a point and shoot game.


what is so hardcore? in all these games? really i fail to understand they are your usual hack and slash. Show me where it says filed under hardcore game.



> The game is controlled using either the Classic Controller, or with the Wii Remote and Nunchuk. Although it is a Wii-exclusive, it foregoes the use of IR aiming when using the Wii Remote, opting one instead to use the joystick on the Nunchuk for looking ("Seeking" in the game's vernacular) and aiming the crossbow or to indicate targets for magical attacks.
> The game includes unique abilities such as "Gathering", which allows Zael to draw the attention of enemies to buy time for his allies to cast spells while absorbing the damage of his enemies attacks to then send it back at them. "Focus" allows you to order allies to make long range attacks at specific targets and see the weaknesses of enemies. A sequence in the first trailer for the game shows an example of the focus ability being used to order Yurick to cast fire magic in order to destroy a bridge with enemies on it.[8] Pointers show which allies are being targeted at any given time.[9]
> The game also features a cover system and over the shoulder viewpoint, while making use of rapid fire crossbows in a manner similar to third-person shooters.[10] In addition, the game also features real-time strategy elements, allowing the player to issue commands to other characters in real-time.[5][11] This includes directing allies, telling magic users to destroy bridges, stalagmites, columns or specific far away enemies, for example.[11] The game also features stealth elements, such as the abilities to "hide behind cover and pepper unsuspecting guards with arrows, luring them out on their own for a stealth attack, or pick off dangerous mages and healers from a distance"[5]




this like dota, only on a smaller scale... its pretty easy to understand how this game works, just by reading about it.

lets assume i consider games as these hardcore for 1 minute, how many of them have been sold ? 0.51 million not even close compared to other h/c titles.
*www.vgchartz.com/game/42967/the-last-story/

so where is your multiplayer base? where is the hard in the hardcore or the core in the hardcore ??? i see none


even in japan, out of the top 10 selling titles, 5 are from the playstation line up


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> you notice something? you are using the word "japanese" a lot. There are 100+ other countries in the world apart from japan and make up 99.9999% of the population. They all say this... but its not the same thing. Video games are mainly sold in America and Europe, basically these countries / continents are the ones which drive sales. granted wii was a fantastic revolution at its time, but now its not the same thing
> 
> if you dont have the particular audience for a game how will it sell ? have you seen the recent shift? call of duty games used to be based on the world war era, but they changed it with cod 4 and its huge reception...shows is a change in the mental attitude of the gamers , we dont want old... same characters... bull **** stories .. People want change . A major reason for sales of ps3 Ip's was their freshness. Uncharted brought in a new experience.... AAA hollywood movie style cinematic and story line, awesome graphics and good multiplayer.
> 
> ...



Call of Duty, Battlefield and Gears of War are casual games. Right now casual games which take focus off gameplay has taken off in the west. Nintendo and other Japanese games still focus on gameplay. A lot of The Legend of Zelda is targeted towards adults. If not we wouldn't have games like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. The story in the Wind Waker is certainly not targeted towards children even if it is appropriate for them. I use the word 'Japanese' a lot because Japanese devs still make the best games and most of the games I buy for consoles tend to be Japanese. A lot of 30 years olds play TLoZ. Most of Nintendo's games are anything but light. There is a reason ultra high difficulty is known as Nintendohard and gaming related RSIs are known as Nintendoitis. Skyward Sword and Wind Waker express much better emotion than Heavy Rain. The Wii U is not a revolution in storytelling it is an evolution in gameplay, which i happen to think is the most important part of a game. Nintendo caters to hardcore audiences too. It doesn't cater to the casual audience which buys games like CoD and FIFA. you may not want to accept it but this is the truth. Nintendo has clearly stated that with the Wii U the focus is back on the hardcore gamers. 

I personally thought that uncharted was 7/10 at most. The gameplay was absolutely horrible and the camera really sucked. No amount of graphics and cinematics can compensate for that.


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## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Honestly yes, i had played super mario galaxy on a wii back in 2010. But after the first two levels or so , it bugged me a lot and i had to keep it aside for mature games like mirror's edge at that time. These games might be a bit hardcore from a gameplay perspective but lacks maturity. All the exclusive nintendo ip's you mentioned lacks maturity and is targeted towards a much much younger age group. There are very very few matured titles in nintendo's inventory and thus its sales are so poor. Tell me a nintendo title with an engrossing story and mature theme?

*And seriously, you are comparing mario kart with gran turismo?*  The only other title that can challenge gran turismo series head on is forza. Its the pinnacle of racing and nowhere near casual. Its not your average arcade racer like NFS series. The game sports realistic driving physics and is almost close to the real thing. Believe it or not, Nascar and formula 1 drivers play simulators like forza and gran turismo to hone their real world driving skills. They don't play mario kart for thr purpose. Besides, those titles are the only means to get you to drive a bugatti veyron supersport and gets the closest in experiencing the real thing without having to shell millions.

Talk about exclusive ip's, does nintendo has answer for games like 'heavy rain', the upcoming 'beyond two souls' and 'The last of us'? These aren't even next gen. Do you know how highly anticipated the last two titles are not only in japan but all parts of the world? Nintendo lacks maturity big time and that's a fact.

About 3rd party support, you will see tekken tag tournament 2 in the wii-u buuuut, its a current gen title and is simply being ported. What about the next tekken title which will have a next gen heavy engine with heavy physics designed for next gen consoles? Will it be downscaled and ported into wii-u? Only time will tell that. Highly anticipated titles like Bungie's destiny and witcher 3 are already cancelled for wii-u simply because of hardware limitations. Its already confirmed that the Unreal Engine 4 is too heavy and wii-u is incapable for that.

You see batman arkham origins for wii-u coz it runs UE3. These are the reasons i meant when i said wii-u is losing 3rd party support. Tell me a nintendo game that can rival Diablo series? Guess what, diablo 3 is coming to PS4. The answer is none. 

I don't think nintendo ip's can save wii-u this time. I fear if wii-u will have the same fate as sega dreamcast.

About me owing a wii-u, honestly buddy, i can't spend 20+k on a console to play only games like mario, pokemon and zelda.


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## heidi2521 (Apr 15, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> OMFG ! AHAHAHA EPIC !
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mario is certainly hardcore. Its first few worlds are easy enough but by the time you get to world 5 in 3D and 7 in 2D, it starts to show you how difficult it can be. 

The Last Story is like DOTA?  . A third person action adventure JRPG is like a MOBA? .
It is hardcore because you need to be skilled to play through it and complete it. It is not a hack and slash game by any definition. It is hardcore because you need to be skilled at the game to beat it. If you aren't fast enough and don't monitor and command your team mates carefully you die easily. 

I think you are confusing 'Playstation' with 3DS.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Call of Duty, Battlefield and Gears of War are casual games. Right now casual games which take focus off gameplay has taken off in the west. Nintendo and other Japanese games still focus on gameplay. A lot of The Legend of Zelda is targeted towards adults. If not we wouldn't have games like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess. The story in the Wind Waker is certainly not targeted towards children even if it is appropriate for them. I use the word 'Japanese' a lot because Japanese devs still make the best games and most of the games I buy for consoles tend to be Japanese. A lot of 30 years olds play TLoZ. Most of Nintendo's games are anything but light. There is a reason ultra high difficulty is known as Nintendohard and gaming related RSIs are known as Nintendoitis. Skyward Sword and Wind Waker express much better emotion than Heavy Rain. The Wii U is not a revolution in storytelling it is an evolution in gameplay, which i happen to think is the most important part of a game. Nintendo caters to hardcore audiences too. It doesn't cater to the casual audience which buys games like CoD and FIFA. you may not want to accept it but this is the truth. Nintendo has clearly stated that with the Wii U the focus is back on the hardcore gamers.
> 
> I personally thought that uncharted was 7/10 at most. The gameplay was absolutely horrible and the camera really sucked. No amount of graphics and cinematics can compensate for that.



according to me uncharted was 10/10 better than any goddamn hollywood movie ever made.

take a look yourself 

*www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41371/Japan/

the answer to that is final fantasy. end of story..

dead5 nintendo hard was the term coined 15 years ago, and i dont think it applies today, or all of nintendosapiens would have been crying

i just checked pandoras tower gameplay and really its nothing more than final fantasy.. or anything...... dead5 why do you even try to argue?


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## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I personally thought that uncharted was 7/10 at most. The gameplay was absolutely horrible and the camera really sucked. No amount of graphics and cinematics can compensate for that.



If that's your personal opinion, then i must say its heavily biased. "Uncharted has horrible gameplay"?? I didn't really get it mate. Then what do you say? Zelda has the best gameplay??

One question.......have you played the recent tomb raider?


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Mario is certainly hardcore. Its first few worlds are easy enough but by the time you get to world 5 in 3D and 7 in 2D, it starts to show you how difficult it can be.
> 
> The Last Story is like DOTA?  . A third person action adventure JRPG is like a MOBA? .
> It is hardcore because you need to be skilled to play through it and complete it. It is not a hack and slash game by any definition. It is hardcore because you need to be skilled at the game to beat it. If you aren't fast enough and don't monitor and command your team mates carefully you die easily.
> ...



did you watch that video? accept the challenge dude. Have u played dota ?   Player warcraft 3?

*theinnerdoor.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/must_not_feed_the_troll.jpg 

ALERT !

*www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/contra4-737891.jpg


*assets.diylol.com/hfs/e84/acf/1a9/resized/idiot-nerd-girl-meme-generator-i-love-the-legend-of-zelda-he-is-so-cool-ab2cc4.jpg


*global3.memecdn.com/reasons-to-play-legend-of-zelda_o_319618.jpg


*i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6019173632/h4B0548DF/


*i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/971/Sohardcore.jpg


*t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmHTDn9wdRDVh3inspw8nSVlxwzJ-_VBCBvw7jyNSG_BGrGSHzsA


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## Cilus (Apr 15, 2013)

I am not going to debate which one offers more hardcore titles or not but just pointing out to couple of facts. Today, when we play games, it is not just about the game play but also for the Graphics quality, character modelling, advanced Graphics options to make it look more realistic, use of Physics Engine etc. There are plenty of PC games which sold like nothing just because of graphics quality while having not so good quality game play experience.

Now, we are having 4K LED TVs and while using consoles, a majority of the population will look for a better quality graphics. Now both Xbox Next and PS4, catching up with the powerful PC hardware, offering a lot to the game developers which was never experienced before. On that time each of the consoles was using different architecture based hardware with different API to code with and developers used to have very hard time to port a game of specific platform to another. Also, PS3, XBOX 360 or the Wii was outclassed long back in terms of hardware power. So while PC games was offering superior game quality, those console games were forced to use stripped down capabilities of the PC version.

But now when XBOX NEXT and PS4 both are armed with very powerful hardware and same X86 architecture, Game developers will be having the liberty to enhance or bring new graphical features to the games without thinking much about the console performance. Also both XBox Next and PS4 are using new technology marvels like *Heterogeneous Computing by fusing the CPU and GPU power together through their customized OS*, can be tweaked to a great degree by the developers to greatly enhance the image quality compared to their older brothers. Coding will be easy as slightly modified DirectX 11 (in case of XBOX NEXT) or OpenCL (in case of PS4) can be used to develop advanced gaming engines for them.

Now here the Wii fails short. Armed with a very weak HD 4670 and IBM Power PC architecture based CPU, which is obsolete for years and an CPU architecture which is not at all suitable for any kind of gaming programming with advanced features, it will simply not able to keep up with the technical advancement in Gaming industry.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

Cilus said:


> I am not going to debate which one offers more hardcore titles or not but just pointing out to couple of facts. Today, when we play games, it is not just about the game play but also for the Graphics quality, character modelling, advanced Graphics options to make it look more realistic, use of Physics Engine etc. There are plenty of PC games which sold like nothing just because of graphics quality while having not so good quality game play experience.
> 
> Now, we are having 4K LED TVs and while using consoles, a majority of the population will look for a better quality graphics. Now both Xbox Next and PS4, catching up with the powerful PC hardware, offering a lot to the game developers which was never experienced before. On that time each of the consoles was using different architecture based hardware with different API to code with and developers used to have very hard time to port a game of specific platform to another. Also, PS3, XBOX 360 or the Wii was outclassed long back in terms of hardware power. So while PC games was offering superior game quality, those console games were forced to use stripped down capabilities of the PC version.
> 
> ...



we were not discussing h/w it was more about future and survivability of these companies and their gaming divisions. but like the last time, the wii-u today is at the same place where the wii was during the ps3 / x360 era... so obviously it wont be able to match the technical prowess. But with the wii we saw the evolution of motion gaming taken to a new level, with interactive deeply built games making full use of that potential unlike the move and the kinect. That is what the wii changed, this time around there is nothing like that... so how does one expect to see the same sales numbers... ?

and dwindling sales forecasts means most devs abandon ship and would prefer to work on other platforms. not considering the fact that 2010 onwards games sales i.e. number of software titles sold overall are growing by a huge number and will increase further, this is a rate race which SONY is leading... i mentioned this before ill say this again unless nintendo change how they make games for who they make games and when they make games the wii-u is a disaster a ticking chernobyl if you will

*@cilus*

you are wrong, now its more about the gameplay than ever. in 2 years time we will have so much raw processing power for so cheap that achieving photo realistic graphics will be a joke. If todays developer centric approach is not towards how the game changes the experience, how it offers a better bonding with the characters of the game ... it wont make a game.

It will be a playable tech-demo.

thats why games like crysis with mediocre story are useless.

you dont just play a game to look at how battles on the beaches would look on the islands of bahamas in 3d rendering, its also about what makes the battle, what is the logic, the plot, the storyline, how the gamer can connect with that, emotion. wordless sheer rush of anger , pain , joy by wordless cinematic face expressions or music is what makes a game.


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## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

^^ Yeah but what cilus actually pointed is a big indication why developers are slowly abandoning nintendo. Everything is moving towards HSA now.
Nvidia has already confirmed maxwell gpu's fully HSA compliant or in other words more flexibility in communication between cpu and gpu. That's because now both cpu and gpu can access same memory,thus avoid bottle necking and other overheads due to repeated code storage in multiple memory pools (In this case, its main memory and Vram). Amd's future products will be the same as they had spent a lot of time and development effort in HSA computing.

Now both ps4 and xbox next has this kind of architecture i.e both cpu and gpu shares a unified large memory pool. This is a boon for developers and easier to harness the potential of the hardware present. Considering pc and the next gen consoles with similar architecture, the wii-u is simply left out in cold.

It has no advancements in technology that can pull developers to do something new on it. Add to this, the abysmal list of kiddish titles, the wii-u's fate is sealed.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 15, 2013)

this situation is a glimmer of hope of some sorts for Nintendo since most of their best selling titles are mostly in-house creations with ips so the battle isn't lost just yet even if 3rd party support is abandoned there is hope and there is a way


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## vickybat (Apr 15, 2013)

^^ Yes, but those ip's should be a bit matured. Not another mario or zelda please.
That mario character is really starting to get in my nerves.

Actually there are some good games in wii/wii u worth playing such "The Last Story" and "Xeno Blade Chronicles".
These had bagged some good reviews and promise deeper storytelling but sports stone-age graphics. 

I would still choose games like skyrim and witcher over them.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Yes, but those ip's should be a bit matured. Not another mario or zelda please.
> That mario character is really starting to get in my nerves.
> 
> Actually there are some good games in wii/wii u worth playing such "The Last Story" and "Xeno Blade Chronicles".
> ...



i mean there is not one reason why i wouldnt play skyrim, witcher and final fantasy for the same experience


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## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Honestly yes, i had played super mario galaxy on a wii back in 2010. But after the first two levels or so , it bugged me a lot and i had to keep it aside for mature games like mirror's edge at that time. These games might be a bit hardcore from a gameplay perspective but lacks maturity. All the exclusive nintendo ip's you mentioned lacks maturity and is targeted towards a much much younger age group. There are very very few matured titles in nintendo's inventory and thus its sales are so poor. Tell me a nintendo title with an engrossing story and mature theme?
> 
> *And seriously, you are comparing mario kart with gran turismo?*  The only other title that can challenge gran turismo series head on is forza. Its the pinnacle of racing and nowhere near casual. Its not your average arcade racer like NFS series. The game sports realistic driving physics and is almost close to the real thing. Believe it or not, Nascar and formula 1 drivers play simulators like forza and gran turismo to hone their real world driving skills. They don't play mario kart for thr purpose. Besides, those titles are the only means to get you to drive a bugatti veyron supersport and gets the closest in experiencing the real thing without having to shell millions.
> 
> ...



Well, which galaxy in SMG did you reach that you are saying it is just a "bit hardcore"? Uh, Bayonetta 2, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars etc. are certainly not targeted towards a younger age group. 

When I played GT it didn't seem hardcore to me. Seriously, if you think Mario Kart is casual beat Rainbow Road in 150cc and win the Special Cup and show me. Does sony have any game like Pikmin or The Wonderful 101? The Tekken physics engine can still be run on the PS2 and 3DS. So it will certainly run on the Wii U. I'm certain Nintendo won't let Namco work on Smash without any reciprocal support.

Later Epic backtracked and said that it will run on the Wii U. It is just that they won't port it(which is probably because Sony struck a deal with them on UE4 and the PS4 and the fact that their Gears series is owned by Microsoft so they had to port it to the next Xbox anyway). 

 The Sega Dreamcast was preceded by a string of failures by sega including the Nomad, Saturn, Master System, 32X and didn't have any equivalent of the 3DS supporting it, or the backing of $10bn. Sega's most powerful franchises were Sonic, Alex Kidd and Shinobi which are nowhere as powerful as Mario, Smash, Metroid, Pokemon, TLoZ etc. 

I've pointed out time and again that there are games other than Mario, Pokemon and Zelda on the Wii U and you just proceeded to ignore them.



NoasArcAngel said:


> according to me uncharted was 10/10 better than any goddamn hollywood movie ever made.
> 
> take a look yourself
> 
> ...



There is a reason VGchartz is banned on sites like NeoGAF and not respected on forums like /r/games. Before you claim Nintendohard doesn't apply today Complete SM3DL, KI:U on anything above 5, SMG2, OOT Master Quest, S&P: S.o.t.S, SS Hero Mode, Mario Kart 150cc all gold. 

Saying Pandoras Tower is like Final Fantasy 



vickybat said:


> If that's your personal opinion, then i must say its heavily biased. "Uncharted has horrible gameplay"?? I didn't really get it mate. Then what do you say? Zelda has the best gameplay??
> 
> One question.......have you played the recent tomb raider?



The Legend of Zelda has a million times better gameplay than Uncharted. Seriously, horrible shooting controls, terrible platforming and cameras and awkward movement counts as terrible gameplay.



NoasArcAngel said:


> did you watch that video? accept the challenge dude. Have u played dota ?   Player warcraft 3?
> 
> *theinnerdoor.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/must_not_feed_the_troll.jpg
> 
> ...



I have played DOTA 2. Have you played The Last Story?

As it happens, i do think that the player character from TLoZ, Link, is quite cool. 

I play more new games than old ones. If you see my list all of them have had titles released in the past 5 years(with the exception of Baten Kaitos which i listed because i am playing it right now). I intentionally didn't list dormant franchises like Starfox, Mother and F-Zero. 

Contra 4 on hard is quite hardcore. There are a lot of Hardcore games for the Wii like Manhunt 2, Madworld, The Conduit, Red Steel 2, Disaster Day of Crisis, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Battalion Wars 2, Xenoblade Chronicles etc.

That Pie chart is not an accurate depiction of what happens in TLoZ. You usually don't get bomb bags/gloves until a significant portion of the game is over, breaking pots is fun but is in no way the main thing you do. Slicing up monsters isn't the main point either. You play TLoZ for the awesome dungeons and temples, the beautiful environments, great music and epic awesome bossfights. 



NoasArcAngel said:


> we were not discussing h/w it was more about future and survivability of these companies and their gaming divisions. but like the last time, the wii-u today is at the same place where the wii was during the ps3 / x360 era... so obviously it wont be able to match the technical prowess. But with the wii we saw the evolution of motion gaming taken to a new level, with interactive deeply built games making full use of that potential unlike the move and the kinect. That is what the wii changed, this time around there is nothing like that... so how does one expect to see the same sales numbers... ?
> 
> and dwindling sales forecasts means most devs abandon ship and would prefer to work on other platforms. not considering the fact that 2010 onwards games sales i.e. number of software titles sold overall are growing by a huge number and will increase further, this is a rate race which SONY is leading... i mentioned this before ill say this again unless nintendo change how they make games for who they make games and when they make games the wii-u is a disaster a ticking chernobyl if you will
> 
> ...



This time we have new gameplay opportunities well done with the Wii U including Nintendoland, ZombiU, Lego City Undercover, The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3 etc. When Nintendo doesn't get support it creates its own. For example the gameboy wasn't really too hot for the first few years, they propped Game Freak up and now look at where that ended. The DS wasn't doing too well either. They propped Level 5 up and got them. For the GC they propped up Retro Studios and were so impressed by their work that they bought them. Nintendo has always had excellent games with excellent gameplay on their platform. The Wii U will be no different.  



vickybat said:


> ^^ Yeah but what cilus actually pointed is a big indication why developers are slowly abandoning nintendo. Everything is moving towards HSA now.
> Nvidia has already confirmed maxwell gpu's fully HSA compliant or in other words more flexibility in communication between cpu and gpu. That's because now both cpu and gpu can access same memory,thus avoid bottle necking and other overheads due to repeated code storage in multiple memory pools (In this case, its main memory and Vram). Amd's future products will be the same as they had spent a lot of time and development effort in HSA computing.
> 
> Now both ps4 and xbox next has this kind of architecture i.e both cpu and gpu shares a unified large memory pool. This is a boon for developers and easier to harness the potential of the hardware present. Considering pc and the next gen consoles with similar architecture, the wii-u is simply left out in cold.
> ...



The next generational transition will be a long one. Considering the inflated budgets for modern games which need to sell millions of copies to be profitable, a 2-3% attach rate for mega blockbusters like Assassins Creed , there is no way the focus will shift from the PS360 to the Western Nextgen consoles any time soon. You will have crossgen games like W_D, AC:BF etc for a long time. The current graphics heavy path will doom the studios who cannot keep up with the specs and expectation of quality the PS4 brings. The Wii U will get third party support from the japanese devs i've mentioned earlier and Ubi, Acti, Warner, Disney etc. for a long time. 

Seriously, The Wii Us list is anything but kiddish. Monster Hunter, Bayonetta 2, Shin Megami Tensei, ZombiU, Fire Emblem, X etc. are not meant for children.



vickybat said:


> ^^ Yes, but those ip's should be a bit matured. Not another mario or zelda please.
> That mario character is really starting to get in my nerves.
> 
> Actually there are some good games in wii/wii u worth playing such "The Last Story" and "Xeno Blade Chronicles".
> ...



As i've pointed out earlier they have quite a few mature IPs. Xenoblade and The Last Story provide entirely different experiences from Skyrim and Witcher, with TW2 being the only one comparable to them if you consider the quality of the games. 

Hironobu Sakaguchi said that The Last Story was possible because of the Wii. It would cost way too much to build it for the PS3 and they would never break even. Look at how SE is struggling with FF. Capcom said the same thing for MHTri being on the Wii rather than the PS3. 

Another reason they went to Nintendo was that Sony wanted trophies in the games while that would completely spoil the experience of MH. They had already blocked the localization of MHP3 and Capcom didn't want to take the risk. 



NoasArcAngel said:


> i mean there is not one reason why i wouldnt play skyrim, witcher and final fantasy for the same experience



Because Skyrim, Final Fantasy, and The Witcher provide entirely different experiences. 

Next you'll say that Smash and Tekken provide the same experience.

Nintendo vs other console Makers/ MK vs. GT:

*venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/r4atb.gif?w=480


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## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Justify the line in bold. 

Do you have any idea how underpowered the wii u is?

*Unreal Engine 4, Frostbite 3 Will Not Support Wii U*


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 16, 2013)

Dude, just because some wii u games are very hard to complete does not make them HARDCORE.. lol
Then with your logic, this is the most hardcore game in the world..
The Worlds Hardest Game - Free Online Action Games from AddictingGames
Hardcore games  are almost always targeted towards audience of age around 17+..
Not saying playing mario at your age is a wrong thing but its faaaaaaar from what hardcore is..


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Justify the line in bold. Show me or give a link or proof where Nintendo said that UE4 is gonna come to Wii u.
> 
> Do you have any idea how underpowered the wii u is?



In conversation with Epic Games' Mark Rein: Unreal Engine 4 support for Oculus Rift (and everything else), and thoughts on next-gen



> You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!



Nintendo said that they are having difficulties in coping with HD Development so i imagine it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo to match the PS4 this gen.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

*@ nerevarine
*
 He seems to have trouble differentiating between "maturity" and "hardcore".


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> Dude, just because some wii u games are very hard to complete does not make them HARDCORE.. lol
> Then with your logic, this is the most hardcore game in the world..
> The Worlds Hardest Game - Free Online Action Games from AddictingGames
> Hardcore games  are almost always targeted towards audience of age around 17+..
> Not saying playing mario at your age is a wrong thing but its faaaaaaar from what hardcore is..



Hardcore games that provide a fair challenge to the player and have good gameplay backing it. Not games designed to be hard for difficulty's sake. Mario is hardcore.



vickybat said:


> *@ nerevarine
> *
> He seems to have trouble differentiating between "maturity" and "hardcore".



Nerevarine said that Mario is not hardcore. Mario is Hardcore. It may not have maturity but it is hardcore.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> In conversation with Epic Games' Mark Rein: Unreal Engine 4 support for Oculus Rift (and everything else), and thoughts on next-gen
> 
> 
> 
> Nintendo said that they are having difficulties in coping with HD Development so i imagine it wouldn't be possible for Nintendo to match the PS4 this gen.



This way, its gonna end up looking like UE-3. They said devs can but devs won't supposedly. Wii u is far too underpowered for UE-4.
Leaving frostbite 3, i have doubts if wii u can run frostbite 2 in its full glory.


----------



## d3p (Apr 16, 2013)

Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.

*bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/14068000/ngbbs46f5f90e9e531.jpg


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> This way, its gonna end up looking like UE-3. they said devs can but devs won't supposedly. Wii u is far too underpowered for UE-4.
> Leaving frostbite 3, i have doubts wii u can run frostbite 2 in its full glory.



If it can run Cryengine 3 it can run Frostbite 2 easily. Nobody is claiming that the Wii U is even remotely as powerful as the PS4. I was just pointing out that it can run UE4 which you claimed it cant.



d3p said:


> Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.



After you get across the early parts and lots of birds come out at once, yes.

PS: I hate that dog.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> If it can run Cryengine 3 it can run Frostbite 2 easily. Nobody is claiming that the Wii U is even remotely as powerful as the PS4. I was just pointing out that it can run UE4 which you claimed it cant.



I still say it can't. Epic guy said they are not locking UE-4 for wii u. That doesn't mean the console is capable of running it. You won't see UE-4 in the ps3 and 360 coz they are underpowered for it.
Same applies to wii u as its more or less in the same boat as them. Calling wii-u as next-gen also sounds vague and obtuse.

Besides, epic themselves won't be developing any ue-4 based titles for wii u.


----------



## d3p (Apr 16, 2013)

d3p said:


> Duck Hunt on 8Bit Console is very much Hardcore Game.
> 
> *bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/14068000/ngbbs46f5f90e9e531.jpg



That was Sarcastic...

Play BF3 Multiplayer with people to understand, what hardcore really means by....Play Dota 2 or Starcraft II..


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

*0verhyped.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1074312-gamermacro_super.gif



> These days, it’s impossible to ignore casual games. With the popularity of the Wii, and with Microsoft and Sony expanding their downloadable content offerings, casual gaming is growing into much more than just a niche market. However, this growth may come with a cost. As more money is made off casual gaming it's possible developers will begin investing a bigger percentage of their budget into their games. And this begs the question, will the growth in casual gaming be detrimental to the traditional, hardcore gamer?
> 
> 
> A Growing Divide
> ...



*www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/683070/casual-vs-hardcore-games/

*www.troll.me/images/billy-mays/kaboom-all-up-in-your-face-.jpg

even nintendo is trolling 

*www.gogameplay.com/gamenew/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/0/50d11475a3910_1.jpg


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I still say it can't. Epic guy said they are not locking UE-4 for wii u. That doesn't mean the console is capable of running it. You won't see UE-4 in the ps3 and 360 coz they are underpowered for it.
> Same applies to wii u as its more or less in the same boat as them. Calling wii-u as next-gen also sounds vague and obtuse.



Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.

Vickybat: It can't. 

"You heard the stupid gaffe yesterday about the Wii U. If someone wants to take Unreal Engine 4 and ship a game on Wii U, they can!"

That clearly means that it can run on the Wii U. Or are you saying that devs will ship games that don't run on the Wii U for it.

There is nothing vague or obtuse about calling the Wii U next gen. Generations are defined by time periods. The Wii U was released in the same time period as and will compete with the upcoming western consoles. 

@d3p I know that you were being sarcastic. I've played DOTA 2. I agree that it is hardcore. I gave BF3 a try. It is about as hardcore as Call of Duty(i.e. not hardcore at all).



NoasArcAngel said:


> *0verhyped.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/1074312-gamermacro_super.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How does that "Kaboom in my face"?Infact, It calls SMG a hardcore game. Just because the Wii & The DS had massive casual buyers it doesn't mean that they have no hardcore games. 

It would be like saying that the PS2 has no games because many people bought it because it was the cheapest DVD player for a long time.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.
> 
> Vickybat: It can't.
> 
> ...



its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline. Hardcore games which dont sell ! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


dude if you really think cod is not hardcore, plz come... we have a server.. lets have a 1 on 1?


so suddenly dota2 is now hardcore? 



dead5 said:


> Mario is certainly hardcore. Its first few worlds are easy enough but by the time you get to world 5 in 3D and 7 in 2D, it starts to show you how difficult it can be.
> 
> The Last Story is like DOTA?  . A third person action adventure JRPG is like a MOBA? .
> It is hardcore because you need to be skilled to play through it and complete it. It is not a hack and slash game by any definition. It is hardcore because you need to be skilled at the game to beat it. If you aren't fast enough and don't monitor and command your team mates carefully you die easily.
> ...



Yawn........




> I do agree that the hardcore gamer did abandon Nintendo, but I believe a number of them did it just from the simple act of growing up.
> 
> Personally, I have a lot of respect for Nintendo because they dominated my childhood before I became a Playstation Fanboy lol. From an adult perspective however, their games don’t speak to me anymore. I will use Transformers for an example. I loved Transformers growing up, and recently I tried to watch some of the old-school shows on Netflix. I just couldn’t do it, I felt like I grew out of it even though I still like Transformers to this day. I feel that way about Nintendo but I don’t take it out on them like the jaded gamers this generation. I see the company like an old friend that I haven’t seen in a long time.
> 
> - was a hardcore nintendo fan


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline.
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> 
> ...



In that case, the Xbox came out in 2005. The PS3 & Wii came out in 2006. So they are not in the same gen. PS3 & Wii are one gen ahead of Xbox. 

CODBLOPSII Wii U? If you don't think Mario Kart and SMG are hardcore, lets play Rainbow Road 150cc and anything after Garden Galaxy in SMG.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> In that case, the Xbox came out in 2005. The PS3 & Wii came out in 2006. So they are not in the same gen. PS3 & Wii are one gen ahead of Xbox.
> 
> CODBLOPSII Wii U? If you don't think Mario Kart and SMG are hardcore, lets play Rainbow Road 150cc and anything after Garden Galaxy in SMG.



you play granturismo, im not saying anything about mario kart. oh.. wait thats because i dont own it anymore, and oh thats because i grew up... since when i was a small child 8 years to 18 years now .

omg, i dun wanna be a child again... sorry...


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> its not even the same period. wii u came out in 2012, the ps4 will come out this year later near december... so i dont see the matching timeline. Hardcore games which dont sell !
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
> 
> ...



I never said Dota 2 wasn't hardcore. You just ignore Nintendos more adult oriented games and claim that they do not target you. MS ran a slander campaign against Nintendo claiming that they were only for children with the original Xbox. It looks that they were mighty successful with it(ofc Nintendo didn't help itself by choosing a cartoony celshaded art style for Wind Waker). 

"Yawn........" The perfect way to refute my claims.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Mark Rein: The Wii U can run UE4.
> 
> Vickybat: It can't.
> 
> ...



That nowhere means wii  u can run ue4. He said developers can use UE 4 in wii u. i guess you didn't find the sarcasm hidden in that comment.
it means, they can use UE-4 for wii u if they only can. 

"Wii u is next gen" = biggest understatement of the year.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> you play granturismo, im not saying anything about mario kart. oh.. wait thats because i dont own it anymore, and oh thats because i grew up... since when i was a small child 8 years to 18 years now .
> 
> omg, i dun wanna be a child again... sorry...



Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.



vickybat said:


> That nowhere means wii  u can run ue4. He said developers can use UE 4 in wii u. i guess you didn't find the sarcasm hidden in that comment.
> it means, they can use UE-4 for wii u if they only can.
> 
> "Wii u is next gen" = biggest understatement of the year.



Are you saying that developers can use something the Wii U cannot run on it?

Generations has always been defined by time. So saying Wii U is next-gen is not an understatement in any manner.


----------



## d3p (Apr 16, 2013)

Boost is the Cigarette Secret of My Energy...

*25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pl85Uaid1r1vzzeo1_400.jpg


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/314/4/6/this_is_hardcore__1_by_weebiart-d5klfn1.jpg

Expert Gran Turismo 5 Drivers to Compete for Go Pro in GT Academy National Event - IGN

Expert Gran Turismo Drivers Can't Race In Real Life Because They're Too Fast



competitive racing anyone?

*oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/write.ign.com/134081/2012/11/Mario-Kart-IRL.jpg

mario kart is for kids, accept it.... the sooner the better

*img.gawkerassets.com/img/18e3yadptyz36jpg/k-bigpic.jpg


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Claiming MK is not hardcore is "not saying anything about mario kart". I see. Have you seen competitive Mario Kart? Just because children can also play a game doesn't mean that adults can't and that it is not hardcore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wii u is not next gen because:

1. It does not bring anything new to the table. Neither horsepower, nor innovation.
2. Uses old gen tech with no advanced features.
3. Has no hardware support for advanced coding standards (HSA).
4. Lackluster title line up with no major 3rd party support.
5. Lacks the capability of running next gen engines.
6. The games themselves lack maturity.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)




----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Wii u is not next gen because:
> 
> 1. It does not bring anything new to the table. Neither horsepower, nor innovation.
> 2. Uses old gen tech with no advanced features.
> ...



First off, generations are determined by time and not specs. I'll refute most of your points anyway.

1. The Wii U brings plenty of Innovation to the table. Exhibit A: The Gamepad. It offers plenty of awesome new gameplay method and brings asymmetric multiplayer to the forefront which is a lot of fun. It has ultra fast real time video compression and ultra low latency streaming between the console and the gamepad.
2. The hardware is not old gen. It has greater horsepower than the PS360 at a much lower power draw(~30W vs 100W - 150W). A lot of R&D went into miniaturization of the chipset. (Unless you believe that the Pentium 3 and the ARM Cortex A9 are in the same gen. ofc)
3. I'll give you this.
4. I've pointed out that it has major 3rd party support time and again (Unless Ubi, Acti, Disney, Warner, Atlus, SE, Sega, Nippon Ichi, Capcom and Namco are not major). The first party lineup is anything but lackluster. 
5. Are you implying that Cryengine 3, Unreal Engine 4, Unity 4, The MT Framework etc. are not next gen?
6. (not counting multiplats)TIL Bayonetta, ZombiU, Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem are not mature.




NoasArcAngel said:


> *fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/314/4/6/this_is_hardcore__1_by_weebiart-d5klfn1.jpg
> 
> Expert Gran Turismo 5 Drivers to Compete for Go Pro in GT Academy National Event - IGN
> 
> ...



Mario Kart Cosplay gokarting != Competitive Mario Kart.

Did you even race online/against ghosts on anything above 50cc when you had MK?

If you can't refute my claims just continue ignoring them like you have done for a lot. Don't descend into insults and derision. 

GT may play like a real car when using racing wheels and pedals but when using a dualshock 3 it is anything but hardcore. Trained GT drivers were too fast for GT amateurs isn't too surprising either.  

Just because something is also suitable for kids doesn't mean that it is not hardcore.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 16, 2013)

See,Wii U is a different kind of console all together,its not meant for the Hardcore,its meant for the family,and little kids,and people who like to play First-party ninty games
As such,it is no match for "mature game" systems like PS4,Xbox Next,PC and is meant to *co-exist with them*.it is meant for the different kind of gamer

Now, I want a 3rd person Real-Time RPG pokemon game


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> See,Wii U is a different kind of console all together,its not meant for the Hardcore,its meant for the family,and little kids,and people who like to play First-party ninty games
> As such,it is no match for "mature game" systems like PS4,Xbox Next,PC and is meant to *co-exist with them*.it is meant for the different kind of gamer
> 
> Now, I want a 3rd person Real-Time RPG pokemon game



I agree that the Wii U is meant to coexist with the western consoles. Nintendo saw that it was getting the short end of the stick even if it was a part of the console arms race so they decided to go their own way DS onwards. However, that doesn't mean that it is not meant hardcore gamers. Nintendo wouldn't rescue Bayonetta, hire Platinum Games to work for them, ask Ubi to make ZombiU harder and change it to Zombies from "Killer freaks from outer space", Get Shin Megami Tensei onto the console, ask Harada not to casualize TTT2WIIU etc. if they weren't targeting the hardcore. They are missing out on the casual/semi-casual crowd because they have nothing like Halo or Uncharted targeting them and unfortunately they drive most sales. 

Have you played Ni No Kuni? It is a lot like what a real time Pokemon RPG would be like. With a better story and characters, not as good music and worse monsters.


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 16, 2013)

Ill bail out of this one..
Seems like the smarter choice..


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 16, 2013)

@Dead5 : After the main Next-Gen consoles release.Wii U will face a drought in terms of 3rd party games.
1.because it will be tough to port games from x86 architecture to Wii U
2.under-powered hardware.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> @Dead5 : After the main Next-Gen consoles release.Wii U will face a drought in terms of 3rd party games.
> 1.because it will be tough to port games from x86 architecture to Wii U
> 2.under-powered hardware.



We are already facing a drought right now 

Outside of exclusives at least will be cross gen this time for a long time. You cannot make a game that needs to sell 3 - 4 mn to a install base of 20 - 25mn with a attach rate of 3 - 4% and expect it to be profitable. We are already seeing this with AC:BF, Watch_Dogs, Battlefield 4, Diablo 3 etc. With more cross gen games there will be less reason to switch consoles. Due to no BC gamers will be even more unlikely to switch consoles. So there will be enough games that can be ported to the Wii U. It will take 3 - 4 years at least for development for PS360 to stop. 

Many games like the Tales games haven't had much of a graphical upgrade since the PS2/GC days. Xilla uses the same quality of assets as Symphonia with a higher rendering resolution. You can expect them to not require much effort to 'downport' since the western consoles will still output the games at 1080p. 

I am not saying that there will be no droughts, but they would not be as severe as most expect.

What Nintendo may lack in numbers is made up for by the sheer quality of their titles. The hardware will probably not let the teams take the route of photorealism and give us awesome art styles like 

this

*s.pro-gmedia.com/videogamer/media/images/wii/no_more_heroes/screens/no_more_heroes_46.jpg

this

*www.nintendo.com.au/prodcatalogue/product/1263/screenshot/MADWORLD-Nintendo_WiiScreenshots14396mad_0502_003.jpg

this

*static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/8/82063/2436699-red-steel-2-1922.jpg

this

*images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/videogames/detail-page/B003ZCH7DI.02.lg.jpg

and this

*gengame.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/skyward-sword-best-worst-zelda-3.png

instead, which IMO look better than the games striving for realism and wont look dated anytime soon.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 16, 2013)

dead5 said:


> First off, generations are determined by time and not specs. I'll refute most of your points anyway.
> 
> 1. The Wii U brings plenty of Innovation to the table. Exhibit A: The Gamepad. It offers plenty of awesome new gameplay method and brings asymmetric multiplayer to the forefront which is a lot of fun. It has ultra fast real time video compression and ultra low latency streaming between the console and the gamepad.
> 2. The hardware is not old gen. It has greater horsepower than the PS360 at a much lower power draw(~30W vs 100W - 150W). A lot of R&D went into miniaturization of the chipset. (Unless you believe that the Pentium 3 and the ARM Cortex A9 are in the same gen. ofc)
> ...



yes i can play pretty well with a dual shock controller too, thank you. You arent hardcore if you no play with dual shock 3 and beat the game. Did you even read what the link said ? it said the gamers selected to race real cars in the real british racing league were faster than their counterparts who had years of driving experience because they were really good on gran turismo simulator.

That is what hardcore is, you get closer to reality. And then you compete. You get closer to hardcore. Competing with Mystical powers and some ancient japanese whore eating monsters is not hardcore. Its hardcore for kids. 

does nintendo cosplay give you access to a top british driving league? is this a joke? It is just a fan representation of a fictional non existent world and non existent characters.

the point is not that, gran turismo is truly hardcore because it grants you access to some of the best possible real world experiences which are honed by drivers with time with powerful machines and millions of $$ of hardware. 

Its literally a virtual racecar, only at 1/10000th the expense.

and really what is this mario kart bullshit you have been posting here? if mario kart is really that hardcore then why doesnt nintendo hosts events like gran turismo so that people can show their skills in the real world and put it to the ultimate test by competing against the worlds best race car drivers?

just because you have some flimsy bombs, and banana peels and you throw them at each other doesnt make mario kart a hardcore game. There is no real skill. Put all those things off, and then say its hardcore. Mario kart is like playing call of duty with powerups, and that is not hardcore. Its meant for fun... its not serious gaming. And this is the damn, same reason that why each and every single nintendo game is not hardcore

you really have the wrong impression of this world and specially what is hardcore and what is not.

games like call of duty, battlefield offer a realism which is pretty much close to what a battlefield looks like so it offers intense gameplay.

dead5, i took the pain of going through the gameplay of the list of games you mentioned to me. What i see here is that you are posting statements and yanking stuff out of your ass. You dont even want to see what others have posted. Your delusional narrow minded frame of thinking is really getting the worse of you. if you cant still see the point after 4 pages of arguments where no one agrees with you then i dont know if anything can. 

this is the last post i am making on this thread, and i will ask the mods to close this down .


----------



## Extreme Gamer (Apr 16, 2013)

I was thinking of posting in this thread, but looks like I spent too much time outside. Here you have two geniuses with their misguided notions about hardcore, trying to pick on another person, with lots of rhetoric, little to no evidence and sheer mediocrity to try and poorly back their claims. And that other person has been repeatedly providing examples if not hard evidence to back his claims (which are being ignored 80% of the time). Just because it is a little Japan-biased with _honorable_ mentions of some western pubs/devs (all major ones except EA)from your POV does not mean that you can dismiss his statements.

Dead5, I suggest you don't reply to this thread anymore. It has become a sub-76 IQ level pissing contest. Let the two geniuses carry on.

@the two geniuses: do you consider M$ Flight Sim X to be hardcore? Your answer will tell me all I need to know about your intent in this thread.

And COD is as hardcore as Duck Hunt. I will agree that BF3 is hardcore if you play multiplayer (I have enough experience. I left because I got pissed when they converted it to a COD style game with their money milking scheme and EA's overcharging in Origin).

BTW geniuses, this is Wikipedia's take on hardcore. If consensus means victory, then Wikipedia rules supreme (so don't give me that edit and vandalize BS):



> Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and *tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master*. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions. Competitions are another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper, an example of this is Major League Gaming, an Electronic sports organization that often holds events for hardcore First-person shooter games such as Quake. There are *many subtypes* of hardcore gamers based on the *style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences*.



Killzone does not fit this bill. Neither does the uncharted series, which I own, COD, which is easy-peasy (stopped buying after COD6 because I got tired of paying for the same **** over and over again). Or crysis. I finished the four games in their highest difficulty levels within a week each, playing 1-2 hours a day. Crysis 3 was the easiest. It took me 8 hours in Post-Human Warrior to finish. Multiplayer was good, but not hardcore. Very engaging, but not as challenging I'd hoped it would be. 

And in case you did not or chose not to notice, nowhere did graphics or ERSB/PEGI ratings coming into the picture. Mario could easily fit the definition given above, as could Pokemon.

No comments on Gran Tourismo because I've yet to play the series.



Spoiler



And FYI, memes are not evidence to back your claims.


----------



## Nerevarine (Apr 16, 2013)

CS, Quake, Dota, LoL, Starcraft, Warcraft, HoN, HoMM..


----------



## Extreme Gamer (Apr 16, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> CS, Quake, Dota, LoL, Starcraft, Warcraft, HoN, HoMM..



Nobody here questions the hardcoreness of these games. Killzone and uncharted OTOH...


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 16, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> CS, Quake, Dota, LoL, Starcraft, Warcraft, HoN, HoMM..



I never said they weren't hardcore. Infact i used Quake as an example of a hardcore game.

You know what, I'm taking Extreme Gamer's suggestion and getting out of here.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 16, 2013)

@ExtremeGamer: who is the _other_ genius


----------



## Extreme Gamer (Apr 16, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> @ExtremeGamer: who is the _other_ genius



Depends on who your first genius is


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 16, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Depends on who your first genius is



first genius is


Spoiler



NoasArc


----------



## Extreme Gamer (Apr 17, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> first genius is
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



The second one is a creature who farts a lot. Naming him will result in yet another war between the two of us and a potential ban...


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Apr 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I was thinking of posting in this thread, but looks like I spent too much time outside. Here you have two geniuses with their misguided notions about hardcore, trying to pick on another person, with lots of rhetoric, little to no evidence and sheer mediocrity to try and poorly back their claims. And that other person has been repeatedly providing examples if not hard evidence to back his claims (which are being ignored 80% of the time). Just because it is a little Japan-biased with _honorable_ mentions of some western pubs/devs (all major ones except EA)from your POV does not mean that you can dismiss his statements.
> 
> Dead5, I suggest you don't reply to this thread anymore. It has become a sub-76 IQ level pissing contest. Let the two geniuses carry on.
> 
> ...



before dismissing uncharted and cod, how many trophies do you have in each game? lets talk about that if you want to take this discussion to the next level. 

if i am the genius you are the prodigy, instead of calling names. look at the definition you yourself have posted. 



> Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions.* Competitions are another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper, an example of this is Major League Gaming, an Electronic sports organization that often holds events for hardcore First-person shooter games such as Quake*. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences.



and in case you are really that hardcore plz come 1 v 1 in a cod match, and prove your claim, am i saying that you need parental ratings or graphics to prove you are hardcore?

on the other hand, when items like banana peels and powerups come at random how exactly is the game hardcore? give everyone the same weapons / powerups and then we can say its hardcore. But if you really wanna argue for the sake of it, dont. As clearly you have the retard level IQ here and not 4 other people.

playing pokemon is like luck, if you have lots of $$$ and get a good catch of premium rare pokemons you can win a battle, but if you end up with none of that how is it hardcore? what i mean to say that a game is not hardcore unless everyone starts at the same level. Its as simple as that. 

If you cant look beyond your nose and understand that, god help you

since you have brought up the target, many of the Wikipedia definitions are written by geniuses like you and what is says about a hardcore gamer is wrong. A hardcore game is 90% about skill and 10% about opportunity. You cant consider a title where items spawn at random to be hardcore, just because it takes 10 hours to beat a certain level. Hardcore is what is your skill, or what particular skillset you have developed while playing the game. It can be ridiculously good aim, understanding cover system, weapon mechanics etc. 

if nintendo games were truly hardcore, we would see people playing call of duty with powerups like health and rocket launchers and then cod would also be hardcore. 

this is the same reason why seasoned players from series like quake or counter strike or gran turismo do not consider games from nintendo to be hardcore. And if you wish to disagree take this over to the gamerz thread and see how many people agree with you.

and i have been playing cs 1.6 since i can remember like almost 850 hours on record and 400 hours off record. So i know what i am talking about. and the intensity of a 5 v 5 clan match is nowhere near that of any pokemon battle i have ever come accross
and i have completed, leaf green sapphire emerald and colloseum

the president of nintendo himself said this. and still ...

*www.computerandvideogames.com/3461...attract-core-gamers-before-casual-with-wii-u/

*CORE GAMERS BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE *


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> before dismissing uncharted and cod, how many trophies do you have in each game? lets talk about that if you want to take this discussion to the next level.
> 
> if i am the genius you are the prodigy, instead of calling names. look at the definition you yourself have posted.
> 
> ...





Wow, since when did trophies decide that a game is hardcore or not? In that case Half Life 1 should be one of the most casual games in the planet, and Jetpack Joyride should be a hardcore mobile app! Uncharted was a very easy game series, and no amount of trophies can take that fact away.

Do you honestly think I will waste 11GB of my precious HDD space and internet bandwidth to install COD6 for a single match against a genius like you?

See, the game is _not_ about the banana peels. The powerups will only occur if you choose to collect them. And these pwerups also require strategy to use. Remember Road Rash? You could kick and punch opponent racers. In a similar vein, you can attack your opponents of become faster with your powerups to try and win the race. How does that make it casual? Or are you telling me that action racing is a casual genre?

Pokemon: the Hardcore Game Hardcore Gamers Don’t Know About – The Movie Fools
Besides, have you ever participated in a single pokemon competition against _real people?_ Are you so ignorant that you are ignoring all of the mechanics in a game that are exploited by hardcore players to produce goddamn awesome teams that are very difficult to beat? Are the sites such as Bulbapedia, Serebii, Project Pokemon etc around just to waste your time?
In battles against real people you cant even use items. In fact, I learned the hard way that all of those supposedly ineffective moves are actually very useful once you are playing against real people. And if you do not strategize, 90% of the time you will lose in a competition. The only genuinely useless move in the main series games is splash (which is useful in pokemon contests).

I can look far beyond my nose, TYVM, so a non-existent entity cannot help me.

Before, you were relying on consensus and very little evidence to back your claims. Now suddenly when a consensus-driven site proves you wrong you are calling 70-80% of the wikipedia-editing population wrong?  So basically to your ego, the world is wrong and you are right  

Stop joking 

I said I won't comment on Gran Tourismo because I have never played it. So I have no context to debate with GT players. If you really wish for me to comment on GT, then send over a copy of GT5 because I sure as hell won't be buying that game. As far as CS players are concerned, sure! I can argue with them all about nintendo's hardcoreness because I know where they're coming from.

I can see your ignorance when you mentioned leaf green, sapphire, emerald and _Colosseum_ (which is not a main series game). Play B/W or B2/W2 so you can experience competitions firsthand. The GBA games did not really enable people to compete because of a lack of long-distance connectivity. Pokemon's hardcoreness does not come from battles against AI. It comes from battles against other people. You really need to take care about how you raise your pokemon, and take advantage of EVs, IVs, breeding etc. 

You completely misquoted that article, genius. The president admitted that they had made a mistake in the way they made the market perceive the DS and the Wii. And just because the console is perceived as casual doesn't mean that the games released for them aren't hardcore. Otherwise you would not see Mortal Kombat, Contra 4, and even your favourite hardcore casual game COD on the DS, or MadWorld, Final Fantasy, Super Smash Bros, and also your favourite hardcore casual COD games on the Wii.

And Iwata said that this time he does not want to make the mistake of making the market perceive the console as casual-only. With the wii and DS, they first marketed them to the casual crowd, so the hardcore intent was not visible.


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Wow, since when did trophies decide that a game is hardcore or not? In that case Half Life 1 should be one of the most casual games in the planet, and Jetpack Joyride should be a hardcore mobile app! Uncharted was a very easy game series, and no amount of trophies can take that fact away.
> 
> Do you honestly think I will waste 11GB of my precious HDD space and internet bandwidth to install COD6 for a single match against a genius like you?
> 
> ...



*t.qkme.me/3pl9u9.jpg





*remember twisted metal? by your definition flatout and twisted metal should also be hardcore ! *

*playing games on easy, yes sure they will be easy. Even a 5 year old can finish uncharted like that. And im considering trophies for games on the ps3 since you are so ignorant i dont think you are living in this present world. I wonder how you got access to the internet? ? Playstation trophy collection is a really big deal ... obviously nintendosapiens will never understand that *

ohh my god, ROCKETS MAKE U STRONGER AND BOOSTS MAKE U FASTER ! SO THIS IS WHAT COMPETITIVE HARDCORE GAMING HAS BECOME ? ! REALLY? WHERE IS THE GOD DAMN SKILL? 

*www.troll.me/images/ancient-aliens-guy/skill.jpg

as far as wikipedia goes, most of the people posting stuff there are ignorant like you. So i guess......


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> *t.qkme.me/3pl9u9.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes.

Twisted Metal Leaves the T Rating in a Cinder and Embraces the Hardcore! David Jaffe Speaks! - Dread Central

The Escapist : Forums : The News Room : Twisted Metal Will Include Twisted Metal: Black "For Hardcore Fans"


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Yes.
> 
> Twisted Metal Leaves the T Rating in a Cinder and Embraces the Hardcore! David Jaffe Speaks! - Dread Central
> 
> The Escapist : Forums : The News Room : Twisted Metal Will Include Twisted Metal: Black "For Hardcore Fans"



YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(im controlling my self so hard from using profanities right now)

*IT SAYS HARDCORE FANS!          * 

*OMFG OMFG NOT HARDCORE GAMEPLAY*

*assets.diylol.com/hfs/e22/20e/f53/resized/meerkat-meme-generator-rofl-8d2763.jpg?1331541711.jpg



 SO YOU ARE A FANBOY, HARDCORE FANBOY, SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT EARLIER AND WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DEBATE ! 


*www.troll.me/images/leela-futurama/not-sure-if-fanboy-or-stupid.jpg


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> *t.qkme.me/3pl9u9.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I play all my games on the hardest settings. *cough* post human warrior crysis 3 *cough*
And whether it is a trophy or an achievement, the purpose is the same. So just because it is a PS3 and not a PC game does not take away the fact that trophies do not decide hardcoreness . Genius.

Have you ever played quake or Unreal Tournament? Have you forgotten rocket-jumping and stuff? Even TF2 does the same thing with the weapons you equip. Oh wait TF2 is cartoonish so it isn't hardcore according to a genius like you.

And don't ever call me a nintendosapien again. I think an ignorant microorganism like you failed to notice that I've previously mentioned that I hate all nintendo consoles Wii onwards except DSi.



NoasArcAngel said:


> YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> (im controlling my self so hard from using profanities right now)
> 
> *IT SAYS HARDCORE FANS!          *
> ...



So hardcore fans play casual games? Wow. Read article #1 genius. But because you _won't_, here you go:



> Every now and again horror fans are given an unexpected gift. This is one of those times. For several months David Jaffe's highly anticipated PlayStation 3 game Twisted Metal was being groomed for a T rating. If anyone could have found a way to make that work, it was Jaffe and company. However ...
> 
> Less sane heads have prevailed, and the game has been slapped with an M for Mature rating, which means even more carnage for us gamers. "We tried. We really, really tried," Jaffe tells DC exclusively. "We tried to make a T (aka PG-13) rated version of Twisted Metal because, to be honest, we wanted more players to experience the game".
> 
> ...



I don't think M rated games are intended for casual audiences.

Like I said before, your use of memes only shows that you have no real defense/response so I'm guessing you have run out of replies and hence the need for memes every other reply. What a genius *NOT*!


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## NoasArcAngel (Apr 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I play all my games on the hardest settings. *cough* post human warrior crysis 3 *cough*
> And whether it is a trophy or an achievement, the purpose is the same. So just because it is a PS3 and not a PC game does not take away the fact that trophies do not decide hardcoreness . Genius.
> 
> Have you ever played quake or Unreal Tournament? Have you forgotten rocket-jumping and stuff? Even TF2 does the same thing with the weapons you equip. Oh wait TF2 is cartoonish so it isn't hardcore according to a genius like you.
> ...





*www.troll.me/images2/mitamoto/i-have-got-some-interesting-news-for-you-all.jpg




Extreme Gamer said:


> *And in case you did not or chose not to notice, nowhere did graphics or ERSB/PEGI ratings coming into the picture. Mario could easily fit the definition given above, as could Pokemon.*



need i say more? seriously dude, argue only when you can win.



i never said TF2 is not hardcore, dont put words in my mouth.



N-I-N-T-E-N-D-O-S-A-P-I-E-N



*t.qkme.me/3pfz5u.jpg


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## Extreme Gamer (Apr 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> *www.troll.me/images2/mitamoto/i-have-got-some-interesting-news-for-you-all.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Go back and read what you'd written. According to you, a game with cartoonish art styles is a casual game. I merely extended that to include TF2.

And yes, I said that. Name one M rated casual game now will you? What I said meant that a game is not automatically hardcore if it is of a certain rating. That does not mean that certain ratings can't have only hardcore games.

What I mean is that all alkalis are bases, but not all bases are alkalis.



NoasArcAngel said:


> need i say more? seriously dude, argue only when you can win.
> 
> N-I-N-T-E-N-D-O-S-A-P-I-E-N
> 
> *t.qkme.me/3pfz5u.jpg



Looks like I won 

Enjoy your vacation. I hope the next time, your posts are more sensible and we can have a more constructive debate.


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## darkv0id (Apr 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Go back and read what you'd written. According to you, a game with cartoonish art styles is a casual game. I merely extended that to include TF2.
> 
> And yes, I said that. Name one M rated casual game now will you? What I said meant that a game is not automatically hardcore if it is of a certain rating. That does not mean that certain ratings can't have only hardcore games.
> 
> ...




I was wondering why NoasArcAngel got banned, didn't think his thread in the Gamerz section was inflammatory.




And then I read this thread.


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## heidi2521 (Apr 17, 2013)

@mods can you lock this thread? This has been derailed so hard that it will never host any constructive debate again.


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## Cilus (Apr 17, 2013)

Closing the thread for now. Try to cool yourselves off in the mean time.


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