# Vista will drive users to Linux



## rajas700 (Sep 14, 2005)

The cost of migrating from Windows XP to Windows Vista will encourage more companies to seriously consider moving to desktop Linux, the chief executive of open-source and networking company Novell said on Monday.

Speaking at Brainshare, the company's annual European user conference in Barcelona, Novell CEO Jack Messman claimed that the cost of moving desktops to the next version of Windows will be significantly higher than migrating to desktop Linux. 

"The cost of migrating to Windows XP to Vista will be higher than the cost of migrating to Linux and that will push migrations to Linux," Messman said.

Novell says it is making real gains on the desktop in Europe currently and that many organizations are choosing its Linux Desktop product especially in vertical industries that require locked-down clients with limited functionality. 

"Instead of a 'one-size-fits-all' approach, Novell Desktop can be customized to provide the right fit across different workstations in the enterprise," said David Patrick, general manager of open-source platforms for Novell. "So businesses finally have a secure and cost-effective alternative to Windows that serves the customer's return on investment rather than a vendor's proprietary licensing program."

Messman added that moving to desktop Linux has functionality benefits as well as cost benefits. He claimed that the fact that Novell's desktop Linux offering has less functionality than Microsoft Office is actually a positive rather than a negative thing. 

Messman claimed that certain features of Office allowed employees to waste time at work by making it easy for them to browse non-work-related sites. "Do you really want to pay for all the excess functionality in Windows that distracts your employees and reduces their productivity?"

The City of Munich announced last week that it has delayed its migration to Linux on the desktop until 2006, a year later than planned and three years after it decided to migrate to Linux. Commenting on this news, Novell European general manager Volker Smid said he believed the setback would not be permanent. "I am more than convinced that these guys will achieve their aim no matter what, and proud that they have decided to go with Novell for the server element of the migration," said Smid.

Recent migrations to Novell's desktop Linux package include SEB Eesti UHispank, the largest bank in Estonia, which is using Novell's SuSE Linux for bank teller workstations.

The municipality of Baerum in Norway is migrating 40 schools from Windows to Linux too. According to IT manager Siri Opheim, a pilot scheme yielded good results and full migration is expected to begin at the end of 2005. "While we don't expect to move every user in our enterprise to Linux desktops, we believe we can achieve real savings by starting to move users in education," he said.

Schools can save a considerable amount of money by switching from proprietary software to open-source software, according to a report released in May by the British Educational Communications and Technology Association. The report found that primary schools could cut computer costs by nearly half if they stopped buying, operating and supporting products from proprietary software vendors such as Microsoft.

According to a recent report from Windows IT Pro, Windows Vista is due to ship on Dec. 7, 2006. However Microsoft has refused to confirm or deny the reports and continues to claim simply that Windows Vista will ship in the second half of next year.

source :google.


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## rajas (Sep 15, 2005)

I dont think so.


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## tuxfan (Sep 15, 2005)

This assumes that people want to migrate to something from WinXP.  If you can't migrate, stay where you are. For die hard windows fans, it is easier to stay with XP then go to Linux.

A new release of Windows will never increase Linux users.  This seems to be over-enthusiastic thinking.


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## srijit (Sep 15, 2005)

but @tuxfan, ur post doesnt have the solid conviction that @rajas post has


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## Tech&ME (Sep 16, 2005)

I don't know how many of you have ever read the EULA which comes with Windows and Linux. 

Let me tell you something, as company, the Managing Director and Adminstrator and others have to consider many things before they actually install this softwares of Operating Systems on their company computers.

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

No privacy with Linux.

And this is just a marketing stunt that Novell is trying to use. Vista is powerful and you know better then me how easy it is to implement things in Windows. Vista is the answer to next generation of computing.

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.
and about 90% desktop (PC) runs on Windows alone.

Well ours is a medium enterprise and in the recent board meeting after having a good brainstroming sessions, we finally decided to implement our servers and workstations based on the Windows platform. The main reason was, future ready, future upgradable, no intelactual property rights issues (some are still there, but no damages can be caused). Out of box network installation of Updates. No issues with virus, trojans, malware, etc if implemented correctly using legal tools.


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## cryptid (Sep 16, 2005)

Well i have a strong feeling that this will happen(i,e ppl shifting from Windows to linux) common with a OS costing as much as a new alien PC who would even think of giving it a try and for all the ppl who are thinking to sticking to XP.I have only 1 thing to say ,y u want to stick to a Fiat premier padmini when some 1 is giving away their Merc for Free, common guys y dont u give linux a try start with Ubuntu its a good Distro for noobs, ppl have a wrong notion that linux is for only experienced and SUper users,,, once u give Ubuntu a try u will feel that this is totally wrong.


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## srijit (Sep 16, 2005)

85% of servers run on Windows? thats a new one for me. oh well guess i am not that well informed


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## tuxfan (Sep 16, 2005)

Tech&ME said:
			
		

> For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.
> 
> Linux violets many industry patents.


 :roll: Why hasn't Linus and other developers been successfully sued so far for this? Whats happening to SCO suit? Any progress for SCO? Why is companies like IBM and Oracle backing it so strongly? Only to get sued in future?



> No privacy with Linux.


  And are you sure you have complete privacy with Windows? This is the first time that I am hearing this. Actually, privacy in Linux is ensured because the source is open. If there is some code for clandestine movement of confidential data, it would have come out long back. But we don't know if this happens in an M$ product :roll: The source code is pretty closely guarded!



> And this is just a marketing stunt that Novell is trying to use.


I agree. This is an over-enthusiastic reaction.



> Vista is powerful and you know better then me how easy it is to implement things in Windows. Vista is the answer to next generation of computing.


  Don't you know that viruses have already started surfacing for VISTA even before its released? I read somewhere that VISTA stands for VIrus, Spyware, Trojan, Adware 



> you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows and about 90% desktop (PC) runs on Windows alone.


Your figures for desktop users may be just about right, but I have doubts about server figures. Linux/Unix servers are more popular than Windows in servers arena.


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## Tech&ME (Sep 16, 2005)

It seems you all are concentrating at the DESKTOP computing side only. And the figures I gave are not for INDIA alone. The figure arrived at relates to the worldwide sales of LEGAL OS's.

US and UK have more LEGAL users of OS's then in any other country, and mainly China and India which is better off with pirated versions of Windows.

Next, comes the COMPANY ----- In a company you just can't go installing anything. Linux or Windows. There are other cost involved, and who said Linux is FREE ???????

Linux charges for the support on its Server OS's. What you get with Digit is not the full version of this Linux Servers. Even you decide to install from the Digit CD's you will still need to purchase the Linux support Services to keep your server running 24/7.

Then, comes the cost of tutorials. ya if a company decides to implement Linux, not every employee is familiar with the interface and the modules of softwares. Who ever things the to work with a CD you need to mount and unmount it everytime you try using it, does a newbee knows this ?

Tutorials cost companies a lot, and also a waste of time for the company.

All IT related employees do come with some knowledge of Windows, since they must have atleast worked on this platform during there college days. U can find a larger number of employee based on the Windows platform but this is not the case with Linux.



			
				tuxfan said:
			
		

> Why hasn't Linus and other developers been successfully sued so far for this? Whats happening to SCO suit? Any progress for SCO? Why is companies like IBM and Oracle backing it so strongly? Only to get sued in future?



They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 16, 2005)

cryptid said:
			
		

> common guys y dont u give linux a try start with Ubuntu its a good Distro for noobs, ppl have a wrong notion that linux is for only experienced and SUper users,,, once u give Ubuntu a try u will feel that this is totally wrong.


Tried it out. The GUI wouldn't load and it gave some cryptic hardware related error. First iron out hardware compatibility issues with Linux then tell no0bs to use it.


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## ujjwal (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree completely with tuxfan, the article is very optimistic and quite unrealistic, to be frank. There can well be a gradual increase in linux users over the years, but not anything as drastic as the article says. Considering the number of organisations still with Windows NT or proprietory Unix'es, migration takes a long time.

But one is getting tired of threads which inevitably turn into linux vs windows debates 




> Linux charges for the support on its Server OS's. What you get with Digit is not the full version of this Linux Servers. Even you decide to install from the Digit CD's you will still need to purchase the Linux support Services to keep your server running 24/7.



Thank you for your info, sir, and I will continue using slackware/arch as a server for free ... oh but thats illegal as according to you, you need to pay to run linux 24x7 :roll:



> They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?



Are you even aware of what you are saying :roll: ? Google is one site running linux for their servers, please do show me all their critical data 



> For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.
> 
> Linux violets many industry patents.
> 
> No privacy with Linux.



Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt


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## vignesh (Sep 16, 2005)

People are quite happy with xp.I don`t think this will increase the no of Linux users


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## Tech&ME (Sep 16, 2005)

ujjwal said:
			
		

> I agree completely with tuxfan, the article is very optimistic and quite unrealistic, to be frank. There can well be a gradual increase in linux users over the years, but not anything as drastic as the article says. Considering the number of organisations still with Windows NT or proprietory Unix'es, migration takes a long time.
> 
> But one is getting tired of threads which inevitably turn into linux vs windows debates
> 
> ...


Man it seems you don't even know what *Servers* are! I never said you cannot run Linux 24/7 for FREE. But can you imagine running a Server without any HELP ? Where do you work bud , you a student ?

Man Companies find it hard at times to run this critical Servers with out help !!!! Join a good company and become the CEO or MD or atleast System Administrator and you will know what I am speaking!



> They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?



*Are you even aware of what you are saying :roll: ? Google is one site running linux for their servers, please do show me all their critical data *


> For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.
> 
> Linux violets many industry patents.
> 
> No privacy with Linux.




My GOD what do you mean to say "please do show me all their critical data", you are talking like a KID!!!! Don't you understand, go talk to lawer and ask him about Intelactual Property Rights. Does GOOGLE at some point needs to hide certain data from its employees ? yes! And that's what i mean to say bud.


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## Tech&ME (Sep 17, 2005)

I think its best not to talk in this topic.(For ME atleast, since everyone is talking based on there DESKTOP experiences and DIGIT Linux distros) 

Before replying to this topic I would like to request forum members to atleast tell us.

1. How many of you run real SERVERS (Windows or Linux based) in your real life ?

2. What Critical Servers are and what type of Servers are we talking about here ?


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## tuxfan (Sep 17, 2005)

So do you mean to say that just because GNU/Linux OS are open source, they are not fit for critical data?

I have heard many arguments against Linux, but I must say that this one is the most unusual of all. You are away from truth sir. Actually, it could be the other way round. Don't think that just because the source is open, passwords would be revealed in *if (pwd == vista)* statements. They are ways of doing it and I am sure this is surely not how it would be done 

As for IP rights, forget about the companies like IBM who use it. If there is violation, IP right holders will first sue Linus and then all distro companies and they will have all the money of M$ at their disposal in this fight.

Alternatively, M$ will buy out that IP rights and start a suit. That is what they tried by acquiring rights to UNIX and then suing thru SCO. But has it worked? No. It hasn't!! Day by day there are more and more people switching to it. Every now and then I hear a story that so and so state/school/hospital/institution has adopted Linux.

Here's a small list. Of course its not comprehensive.
1. Madhya Pradesh Government schools (about 389)
2. Kerala Government schools
3. Indian Railway catering department
4. Maharashtra Govt. Administrative Head Office (Mantralaya)
5. LIC
6. Breach Candy Hospital

Even our president, APJ Abdul Kalam has been recommending Linux. Don't you think he is one of the leading technological minds of India?


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## __Virus__ (Sep 17, 2005)

Tech&ME said:
			
		

> I don't know how many of you have ever read the EULA which comes with Windows and Linux.
> 
> Let me tell you something, as company, the Managing Director and Adminstrator and others have to consider many things before they actually install this softwares of Operating Systems on their company computers.
> 
> ...




^^^ hmmmm childish ??? 

yahoo..hotmail...desi rediff,google, lame site at a free ftp like coconia.net, free porn sites like , hp, dell, canon << wht do they use????? windows? big no....so i hope u get the answer by now..cmon man agreed tht most of the users on desktops (who fear research and development) use windows ,first at server side comes sun sularis thn comes *nix...thn no one uses windows...so dont ever come on server side or u will b prompted to update media codecs by media player..

just wait for my post to come up in general section bout winsh*t and linux

Edited Batty: Do *not* post links to porn sites here


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## tuxfan (Sep 17, 2005)

If CRITICAL servers are the criteria, then its all the more reason to run Linux for stability and security. At times, Windows servers need a restart after some time (may be months) whereas Linux servers are known to run for much more time without needing any intervention. That is why more and more servers, especially web-servers, are now linux based!!


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## Tech&ME (Sep 17, 2005)

Ok you win, and please don't call me SIR. It doesn't sounds good, since I am of your age only.

And I am not a SIR in this forum. May be in my company!

I was just argueing something i should not, so sorry for that.


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## __Virus__ (Sep 17, 2005)

tuxfan said:
			
		

> If CRITICAL servers are the criteria, then its all the more reason to run Linux for stability and security. At times, Windows servers need a restart after some time (may be months) whereas Linux servers are known to run for much more time without needing any intervention. That is why more and more servers, especially web-servers, are now linux based!!



*uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

windows 98 had uptime of 48 days


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## srijit (Sep 17, 2005)

win 98 on a server?!!!! ROFL...


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## cryptid (Sep 18, 2005)

Tech&ME said:
			
		

> you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.



LOL


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## jpushkarh (Sep 23, 2005)

Gr8 fun & also very knowledgeble thread


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## __Virus__ (Sep 23, 2005)

cryptid said:
			
		

> you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.



Prove it and i will gift u my Mobo


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## theexister (Sep 30, 2005)

I have been working at one of the top 3 indian IT companies (which I cannot name for obvious reasons).
We are using Win2k SP4 now for the past 4 years & only about 3 months back are slowly moving to WinXP proff.

We considered at one point to move all servers to Linux but the price of their Support services was way too high. Considering the frequent updations and maintanence we do every month it would have exceeded the cost of a one time payment for a Windows OS.

As far as the industry is concerened the move to linux is more hyped. I have heard a few of my friends in other IT companies talk about the move to Linux but the complexity of its use combined with the hidden cost eventually supercedes.

Most companies will stick to existing OS in both the cases (server & desktop) until the next generation OS really offers better value & features.


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## it_waaznt_me (Oct 1, 2005)

And to add theexister's post, the cost of training the personnel .. that is another thing ..


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## tuxfan (Oct 1, 2005)

And what about hardware support? Linux still lacks quite a bit there as well. Mainly hardware manufacturers are to be blamed for this. But you can't expect users to sit and find the right drivers for their hardware every now an then :roll:


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## sujithtom (Oct 3, 2005)

People  just don't consider about migrating cost only. If Vista is far more better than Linux companies will surely choose Vista...


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## planetcall (Oct 13, 2005)

comeon peeps what the fuss??? I wonder if someon really wanna compare linux with windows. There is no match pal. The simple thing is that Linux rules and it not just me who yells that but see the proof(netcraft link posted above). Desktop is *mostly* used by noobs who dont really want to learn and go through any hassles and love icons more than real performance and also  they outnumber experts. This is where Windows Reigns. Now the server segment is mostly handled by experts and the talented peeps. See on google the wide gap between the linux distros and Windows in this segment. Simply Linux rules. 

In the desktop segment too Linux has recently giving M$ a big threat. GNOME has matured to greater height and recently I discovered a great website "www.gnome-look.org" and then only I come to know that linux already has evolved more than I used to think. I have been using Windows ever since I started but now I have migrated to Linux, the better option


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## it_waaznt_me (Oct 13, 2005)

You say 80 M Desktop users are n00bs and 20 30 K of Server admins are "experts" ... ??
You cannot use a server as your desktop buddy .. This is like you buy a plane to go office daily .. It wont suit .. 
And do you put your computer on for 48 days ..??? I dont .. and I dont see _any_ reason to do that .. 
Now to your post .. There is no match _because_ Linux and Windows are for different use (And not becuase Linux rules ) .. If you search the Open Source forum, you'll find a nice argument on this ..


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## vignesh (Oct 13, 2005)

I heard Vista is too heavy on resources.


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## sujithtom (Oct 13, 2005)

Dude i think ur bit  wrong, Windows dominates just because the vast amount of apps and games it supports


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## planetcall (Oct 16, 2005)

> You say 80 M Desktop users are n00bs and 20 30 K of Server admins are "experts" ... ??


What I said is that "MOST" of the desktop users are noobs. It simply means that almost all the noobs are the desktop users. Also, the servers are handled by the experts. It means that those handling servers are talented people and atleast not the noobs.



> You cannot use a server as your desktop buddy


where did I say that buddy??   
*www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/engel/a025.gif


> And do you put your computer on for 48 days ..??? I dont .. and I dont see _any_ reason to do that ..


Well you messed up. See I said that in reference to the servers. If you have a server would ya like to shut it at night simply coz u are not there?? BTW, I switch my PC off rarely. Most of the time I keep it on and monitor off.
*photobucket.com/albums/v295/laurents/omicrons/th_smileylan.gif



> Now to your post .. There is no match _because_ Linux and Windows are for different use (And not becuase Linux rules )



Sorry dude! I opine it a fallacy. I agree Linux has far more wider uses than windows. Linux is enjoyed the sameway by the users as is windows. You should have given a few examples too as how windows usage purpose is different to that of linux?? I dont see any difference. You got wordprocessors, games, programming editors etc.

*freeweb.supereva.com/esorciccio2002/smilies/adminpower.gif


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## cryptid (Oct 18, 2005)

vignesh said:
			
		

> I heard Vista is too heavy on resources.


Totally True


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## it_waaznt_me (Oct 19, 2005)

Hmm.. How I missed this reply .. Anyways .. 


> where did I say that buddy??


I said that .. *www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/engel/a025.gif .. And I say it again .. Server OS isnt optimized for desktop use .. So you are comparing a Server to a desktop _which_ is a fallacy ... 

Anyways, I was talking about this thread which is beaten upto death in which I said it again : 


			
				Myself said:
			
		

> I am saying it again and again .. read my first reply in the thread .. there is nothing wrong in being complex .. If you sit on W2k3 server, you will find that it too has got great customization and power but you cannot use it as a desktop system .. Because its not written for that use ..
> The very roots of Linux are from Unix which was *not* written for desktop use .. And if they have to embrace this field, they will have to shed that geeky image ..


 .. 

Hehhe .. I aint gonna argue anymore about it  ..

PS
*freeweb.supereva.com/esorciccio2002/smilies/adminpower.gif : Lol


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## mehulved (Oct 19, 2005)

Hello friends.
I am not here to do any bashing to any operating systems. I will b taking a neutral stance in this seeming battle. I personally prefer linux over windows and have only linux for the time being on my system. Nonetheless, I feel windows is indipensable. Maybe cos its most widely acceptable or cos it has got ease of use or cos it has good support of hardware vendors and software writers or whatever else its difficult to go on without windows for most of the people. Linux has its own advantages in terms of security and availability of source code. Also, many commonly used softwares are being written for linux and hardware vendors have started to notice linux. But , still linux has its problems abound. Mainly hardware incompatibility. It is not so easy to install or uninstall the products in linux environment as in windows. Though this is great for security. It turns the newbies away. Well, i believe everything has its ups and downs. Coming to vista, I've heard that most of the features hyped by vista have been around for ages. Like 3D graphics engine has been since 1995-96 in Mac. And I believe that 1st final release of vista is not going to implement most of the hyped features. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Linux has given me some real problems while installing which were real frustrating and an average user wudn't want to spend time sorting those out. 
Finally, I would like to say that the battle between linux and windows in the battle of individual ideologies and will go on continuously. So, there will be some moving to linux with release of vista and some to vista. If linux improves it hardware incomatibilities and list of softwares I feel more users will go on to linux and maybe more malware too, who knows.


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## JGuru (Jan 1, 2006)

What you guys don't understand is TCO. The Total Cost
of Ownership. Linux comes with an excellent image-manipulation program called GIMP. OpenOffice.org fills up the void created by KOffice. 
As far as Windows is concerned you don't get MSOffice
for free with Vista, do you? Plus, all the viruses and
Adware + Spyware target Windows!!!
Do whatever Windows has more vulnerabilities than Linux!! The Viruses corrupt the Windows Regitry, then
Windows is history. That's not the case with Linux!!!

Of late the Linux market is picking up at a brisk-pace.
Microsoft is a tough competitor, so expect some
tight competition in the future.


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## it_waaznt_me (Jan 1, 2006)

Ahem .. JGuru .. TCO of Linux is more than Windows .. Just read this thread from the start .. Then we'll continue the argument...


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## praka123 (Jan 1, 2006)

GNU/Linux is better.wingdows is too inferior to compare.So we'll wait for _singularity_ to grow up  to give a competition for GNU/Linux...


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## naveenchandran (Jan 1, 2006)

hmm...

Only Ease of use and Appearance should not be considered....
I feel that ONLY thing that most users get attracted to windows is "Appearance". 

I know that most of them wants to try vista...
If Windows Vista had same "appearance" like Windows XP or 98 how many would have tried it out?
"All that Glitters is not Gold"

The most important thing is RELIABLITY...

Windows was never much so reliable than Unix/Linux....


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## mehulved (Jan 1, 2006)

naveenchandran said:
			
		

> hmm...
> 
> Only Ease of use and Appearance should not be considered....
> I feel that ONLY thing that most users get attracted to windows is "Appearance".


Well I disagree there. If it were so Mac would have 99% percent of the market share right now. 
Windows is ahead just cos of the marketing strategies on MS and intel.


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## Satissh S (Jan 1, 2006)

Naveen said:
			
		

> I feel that ONLY thing that most users get attracted to windows is * "Appearance" *


Well .. I'am really surprised that you are saying this. If you haven't already take a look at  Lynucs.org  . I really feel that linux as an OS due to it's  Free  Nature is more customisable as far as appearance is concerned. No Hard feelings anyways!


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## praka123 (Jan 2, 2006)

I too feel the decoration works and cute icons drive users to wingdows....
Linux by default(except few distros) not come with such a good artwork...
Well,after installation of Linux,i've customised it using themes and icons set from ur mentioned site to woo some interest from wingdows users...


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## naveenchandran (Jan 2, 2006)

Satissh S said:
			
		

> Naveen said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No.. what I mean to say is most of them wants to test vista only due to its appearance.

I know that in linux excellent appearance can be made... with good icons etc... Even transparency of windows is now evolving.... Lot of good WM for linux like Gnome, KDE, XFCE, Enlightment are available...

@prakash_kerala
What you say is true 100%


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## Kannan (Jan 3, 2006)

Seems like a hot & intense argument is going on. hmmm

Anways, working in a corporate and working with servers I know how difficult it is to configure Linux based servers and Sun based servers !.

But sun based servers rule major servers and Next comes the Windows based servers and finally Linux based servers.

Another things is that Windows Servers are easy to use & configure, as most of the peeople might have used the desktop versions.

Another thing is that Window GUI is easy on eye when compared to Sun based OS or Any Linux flavours !.

Also switching people who are used to Windows to Linux is damm difficult & costly.

Also most of the companies use ASP applications to automate the official works and so Windows will be easy.

Also Windows Servers are easy to configure messaging & mailing system for corporates.

Vista seems to have some good architecture. But have to see its performance once its launched.

Also most of the servers come default with Windows or Sun Solaris in market.

Seems like I have typed lot of "Also"  

*www.binarybits.net/scripts/trillianstatus/temp/status.png


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## Satissh S (Jan 4, 2006)

Hope this doesn't lead to Yet Another Windows Vs Linux (YAWVL)


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2006)

@kannan:
Another thing is Wingoose used by most in India are pirated

Also many of them dont know what piracy is

Also they start to Live with BSOD,Viruses,Trojans etc

Also Linux is hated First by many Companies and after virus attacks and server crashes with their Wingoose Servr 2003,They shyfully changed to GNU/Linux..

Also most People are spoonfed by Pirated Wingoose OS.so they jus cant understand what is piracy and what is Operating System?  

Also In Chennai,many prominent shops are using Pirated Wingdows OS proudly...

Also the founder of M$ is evil,his ethics are evil,if not why does he wants to spread FUD[Fear, uncertainty and doubt] and patent warfare against Linux?
Also, Infact we saw somewhere in this forum that he cannot trust his wingoose OS for DNS servers for his microsoft.com site,ending up getting GNU/Linux servers from Akamai running  DNS for his grrreat wingoose site!

I believe i answered Ur 'Also' effectively! _Appo Sari,Appuram Paappom,Onnum Manasula Vechikkade!_


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## ~Phenom~ (Jan 4, 2006)

I will stay with XP no matter how vista looks and do coz XP is doing a Fine job for me.


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## Kannan (Jan 4, 2006)

prakash said:
			
		

> Another thing is Wingoose used by most in India are pirated
> 
> Also many of them dont know what piracy is


Yup, I know



			
				prakash said:
			
		

> Also they start to Live with BSOD,Viruses,Trojans etc


I don't think so. Most of the people know how to protect their PCs. Infact I am sure that most of the Win Users in this forum know how to protect their Win based PC & Data. 



			
				prakash said:
			
		

> Also Linux is hated First by many Companies and after virus attacks and server crashes with their Wingoose Servr 2003,They shyfully changed to GNU/Linux..



Can't accept this one too as our company puts Antivirus, firewall and updates to max use. So we haven't seens any such problems and most of the companies doo that too.

Shifting to Linux will solve some problem but will end up producing lot of compatibility, migration & training problems.



			
				prakash said:
			
		

> _Appo Sari,Appuram Paappom,Onnum Manasula Vechikkade!_



Nann onnum manusula vechikkale 

*www.binarybits.net/scripts/trillianstatus/temp/status.png


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## techmax (Jan 12, 2006)

_Are bhai jo achcha lage_ *use* _karo jhagadne ki kya baat hai!!!_


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## rajas700 (Feb 4, 2006)

srijit said:
			
		

> win 98 on a server?!!!! ROFL...



How dose it ???


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## Ankur Gupta (Feb 4, 2006)

Vista has a new look to the interface and i think it is a bit difficult to get adapted to it for first-timers and also novices.i feel tht the interface is a bit like linux.and surely the author of this thread must be given credit for bringing this out!!!!!!


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## priyadarshi (Mar 11, 2006)

cryptid said:
			
		

> Well i have a strong feeling that this will happen(i,e ppl shifting from Windows to linux) common with a OS costing as much as a new alien PC who would even think of giving it a try and for all the ppl who are thinking to sticking to XP.I have only 1 thing to say ,y u want to stick to a Fiat premier padmini when some 1 is giving away their Merc for Free, common guys y dont u give linux a try start with Ubuntu its a good Distro for noobs, ppl have a wrong notion that linux is for only experienced and SUper users,,, once u give Ubuntu a try u will feel that this is totally wrong.




I want to shift to Linux. I tried several times to create a new account on *shipit.ubuntu.com/ but don't know why they not sending me the password to login.   Send mails to the concerned persons in India but they too didn't replied. If this is the service what they are providing how people interested working with Linux like me will give it a try? Can anyone please help me getting a copy of a free Linux at my doorstep?   :roll:


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## priyadarshi (Mar 11, 2006)

tuxfan said:
			
		

> And what about hardware support? Linux still lacks quite a bit there as well. Mainly hardware manufacturers are to be blamed for this. But you can't expect users to sit and find the right drivers for their hardware every now an then :roll:




I agree with tucfan. this is why linux is not so popular amongst home users.


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## desertwind (Mar 11, 2006)

priyadarshi said:
			
		

> want to shift to Linux. I tried several times to create a new account on *shipit.ubuntu.com/ but don't know why they not sending me the password to login.   Send mails to the concerned persons in India but they too didn't replied. If this is the service what they are providing how people interested working with Linux like me will give it a try? Can anyone please help me getting a copy of a free Linux at my doorstep?   :roll:



OK, gimme your postal address + phone by pm. dont reply here. I'll make order for you.


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## eddie (Mar 12, 2006)

priyadarshi said:
			
		

> I want to shift to Linux. I tried several times to create a new account on *shipit.ubuntu.com/ but don't know why they not sending me the password to login.   Send mails to the concerned persons in India but they too didn't replied. If this is the service what they are providing how people interested working with Linux like me will give it a try? Can anyone please help me getting a copy of a free Linux at my doorstep?   :roll:


For god's sake dude..this is all free. You are not paying something, alright? What kind of service do you want? What do they owe you that they should provide you "service"? Cut the attitude and contact Linux-Delhi User Group mailing list for CDs. Also look at this thread that has been going around recently on the list
*www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/msg14484.html
If you are in any of those areas then you can get the CDs from Delhi itself but contact any of those people without attitude.


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## The_ruler (Mar 16, 2006)

*windows vista interface and security*

I dont't think so that windows vista will drive the
users to linux.
Because once the *windows vista *releases the people get crazy about vista !! and used to upgrade their  system to the windows vista required once and enjoyed the full potentail of windows vista!!
we heard that windows vista will have more sleeker and cool interfaces then the mac os X Tiger
and have great security features


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## mehulved (Mar 17, 2006)

Well if you're talking about the GUI have a look at Novell's XGL or Red Hat's AIGLX. BTW you need linux for that and a graphics card too.


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## praka123 (Mar 18, 2006)

what will vista costs in india(not 4 a pirate),my guess is will be around Rs25000 is it right?


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## Satissh S (Mar 18, 2006)

@prakash : And wat abt hardware upgrades for that!!? :roll: 
May be they've addressed a few security concerns here and there by scrappily copying from *nix.. may be they'll try better. Vista might be one of the most secure Windows version to come out.. but i swear people definitely wont upgrade their existing xp systems to vista and it may/may not drive users to GNU\Linux.


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## allajunaki (Mar 26, 2006)

Tech&ME said:
			
		

> I think its best not to talk in this topic.(For ME atleast, since everyone is talking based on there DESKTOP experiences and DIGIT Linux distros)
> 
> Before replying to this topic I would like to request forum members to atleast tell us.
> 
> ...




Let me do the honors of answering that. 
1. Me, Our team Manages 30-35 Servers ( We do Active monitoring of these servers as they host Various Server Components of the Application We support).

2. Criticality? Hmm.. Well.. A downtime of >5 Minutes of these servers without prior information is considered to be a Serious Business Problem. 

Ok, this what we handle.but there are other servers which we dont have access, totalling about 10,000 Servers. 

Now Some servers is so critical that they have 2 - 3 backup machines. Why? Because our client is one of the top 3 Financial Assets Management Company, One of the Biggest Bankers in the world. They are so paranoid anout security that we are not allowed to work on our personal desktops, we have to do remote session into their Machines located elsewhere and work. They are so strict that I have signed an agreement that I will not reveal their name anywhere. And couple of guys got sacked, coz they downloaded sometihing off the e-mail. 

Enough said about criticallity and Confidentiality.

The Server of Choice for all of em is without qustion Unix. There is nothing  which can remotley matchup the scalablity and strength of Unix machines. 

The unix servers manage all the critical and vital softwares of the bank.

And no this is not my opinion. Its by people who knows systems like back of their hand. And its for a company where Systems HAVE to be running all the time as they have production servers in 9 Locations. So in a day there is atleast 1 Site is having its business hours.

And my dear friend Windows Machines dont see past 2 weeks uptime. And unix machines see an uptime of 6-8 Months.. where a reboot is did after some patch upgrade or for some maintanence work. OS never crashed. But Some apps with run with kernel ring crashes. So they can be upped only with a full reboot (Also because some issues take onger to resolve without a rebootl. So far we have encountered Two such instances in Unix. And that wasnt a Unix issue.. it was a hardware issue. Interestingly Unix system ran pretty crippled mode with one bank of Rams Failing totally.. (Low performance. no crash)

Oh yeah.. we do have Linux machines too...In fact some of our servers are Linux. Even they are quite good. Uptimes of 4-6 months are quite common... 

Now Any questions?


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## tarey_g (Mar 26, 2006)

prakash kerala said:
			
		

> what will vista costs in india(not 4 a pirate),my guess is will be around Rs25000 is it right?



prakash , no offence but ur posts are weakning in logical resonability as i move down reading ur and others comments on this topic , vista or any other os not in any way can cost that much, i totally disagree. callin some software giant evil because they want to sell their product , using marketing stratagies to promote the product so user's dont use what  the competitors are offering ! i dont think its evil ,its business and thats the same thing what most of us are paying to learn in colleges. 

Every person using comp is not same , some of them use linux distros and can manage their os very well but many of them don't even know how to install drivers for hardware in linux, secondly normal users want compatibility of the os with many softwares they use and are using from years .and i think windows being the most used os this is the only answer for them . I know its very easy to flame a windows supporting person here , everyone first points the secutity issue but why do ppl forget the fact that if today any os other than windows was so popular, then it would have been the prime target of the hacker community and the same thing would happen to  that os too, so i think the security issues are very obvious. 

we are customers and we can choose according to what we need from the os so i dont think there is anything to fight upon.


			
				Techmax said:
			
		

> Are bhai jo achcha lage use karo jhagadne ki kya baat hai!!!


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## praka123 (Mar 27, 2006)

tarey said:
			
		

> I know its very easy to flame a windows supporting person here , everyone first points the secutity issue but why do ppl forget the fact that if today any os other than windows was so popular, then it would have been the prime target of the hacker community and the same thing would happen to that os too, so i think the security issues are very obvious.


Linux is much better on security.the user/file permission system will not allow any thing to be written.for intruders,linux got iptables which M$ can only dream..moving to Linux dont u Know how much money Governments and companies,individuals save.Also was they are protected from spywares,worms,viruses and hence downtime.Countries like ours cant bear such a porpreitory solution which is also a waste.infact Our countries president affirms moving to Open Source..he is earler a senior scientist in ISRO..remember..
seems like you are not in sync with free software philospohy and GNU Open Source...since you are such a geek..get some resources on  free software philospohy and Understand why we need them.M$ and its founders ethics are evil.so only we are protesting.they spread FUD...always acquire patents for warfare against Linux and OPen Source.why does IBM,Dell and many others are changing..have some thought leaving apart hatred for Linux and OSS
As far as Vista pricing is considered wait and watch whether U or me is correct.


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## iMav (Mar 29, 2006)

Weel il b honest here....im going buy myself an official version of Vista the moment it hits Indian Market......


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## borg (Mar 31, 2006)

Regarding Linux on the desktop, I don't know how Linux community plans to move forward. There isn't any such thing as 'The GNU/Linux', instead we have Fedora caore, opensuse, Mandriva, Ubuntu, etc, etc , etc. I am told that there are around 300-400 Linux distributions. Lot of incompatibilities exist between each of them. It is a nightmare for ISVs to develop software for Linux & ensure that it runs on all distros. How does the Linux community plan to tacle this issue?. I have no clue.


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## mehulved (Mar 31, 2006)

GNU/Linux does exist and is alive and kicking. What you are talking about is linux distributions developed by many vendors. The heart of the distro is the linux kernel on which the whole OS works. And it is powered by softwares developed under GNU Public License. That's why it is called GNU/Linux. 
And how does linux comunity tackle the issues of different distros? Have a look at Linux Filesystem Hierarchy. There is specific place where a software are installed and those are present in  every distro. And besides there are config files which point out where and how everything has been organised. So, it is not a big issue at all. There are mainly 4 formats by which linux softwares are available
1. RPM's
2. deb's
3  sources like .tar.gz, .tar.bz
4. binary ie .bin
It isn't as unorganised as you seem to think.


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## desertwind (Apr 1, 2006)

And to add to it,
*Free Software is about freedom of choices too!*


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## praka123 (Apr 1, 2006)

.....examples are the new eye candy options rivalling MAC and M$ OS are released almost the same time by Fedora and Novell-AIGLX and XGL
*fedora.linux.duke.edu/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx#head-7c28114d7bfca3fd27da422f9bd36de8f8d41703
*www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/

Vista...Linux will *eat* you!


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## borg (Apr 1, 2006)

@tech_your_future

Yeah, all that is fine. What I am talking about is due to the lack of standardization, ISVs face a lot of problems. Suppose an ISV develops a program, how can he be sure that it will run on all distros of Linux?. This is a prevalent problem & needs to be tackled. There have been some steps in this direction like the portland project, etc. Lets see where all this leads.


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## Vyasram (Apr 1, 2006)

I will not shift to Linux, neither will i buy vista ultimate.   

Neither will 80% of ppl shift to linux, they'll all use and not buy vista. Microsoft will not take any actions against them even if it has 100 million piracy eradicators in its hands coz if those 80% of ppl shift to linux (or continue using linux) , it will trigger the shifting of the remaining 17% original vista buyers to linux as well.
Remaining 1%-Mac and others and 2%- total microsoft loyal fans and guyz workin in microsoft

So microsoft doesn't wanna lose atleat these 17% of users who might buy vista , so it'll be lenient with piracy.


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## mehulved (Apr 2, 2006)

borg said:
			
		

> What I am talking about is due to the lack of standardization, ISVs face a lot of problems. Suppose an ISV develops a program, how can he be sure that it will run on all distros of Linux?. This is a prevalent problem & needs to be tackled. There have been some steps in this direction like the portland project, etc. Lets see where all this leads.


I agree things are not completely standardised. But, all softwares have some other software which they need to work, they are known as dependancies. So, as far as you supply dependancies, you can get your software to work on any distro. How come linux has so much software? All the software made for linux is by ISV's. There are hardly any products developed by the suppliers of distros or the maintainers of linux kernel. Almost all the software on linux platform is from independant developers. Only problem is that major software developers are reluctant to port their softwares to linux just as yet due to unjustifiable costs and misassumption that linux softwares are always free.


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