# RIP freedom of speech



## avinandan012 (Jun 3, 2014)

Maharashtra police to crack whip on those who ?like? offensive Facebook posts - The Times of India


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## kaz (Jun 3, 2014)

"acche din" They said


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## Desmond (Jun 3, 2014)

Then don't post such stuff on Facebook, unless you are feeling masochistic.

Better to move to Reddit and post whatever you want.


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## dashing.sujay (Jun 3, 2014)

kaz said:


> "acche din" They said



State police is not controlled by central govt.


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## RCuber (Jun 3, 2014)

meh, When will people in India come to know freedom of speech is not freedom of being a jerk. in this world anything and everything is offensive.


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## .jRay. (Jun 3, 2014)

Shouldn't those guys be doing something to lower crime rates instead of booking people for liking posts.


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## amjath (Jun 3, 2014)

Why are we doing NSA stuff here


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## kaz (Jun 3, 2014)

dashing.sujay said:


> State police is not controlled by central govt.



ohhhh  RIP Democracy then....

Why don't the leaders get arrested when they talk **** and call each other like "barshati keeda" "gutter swine" etc... Why only we *THE AAM AADMI *would suffer? Why?


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## dashing.sujay (Jun 3, 2014)

Because we are aam aadmi.


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## Desmond (Jun 3, 2014)

RCuber said:


> meh, When will people in India come to know freedom of speech is not freedom of being a jerk. in this world anything and everything is offensive.



True. But I still feel that people need to be more tolerant and civil in resolution of such issues. Being feral only causes inconvenience to your own fellow men.


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## Faun (Jun 3, 2014)

RCuber said:


> meh, When will people in India come to know freedom of speech is not freedom of being a jerk. in this world anything and everything is offensive.



As long as it doesn't shift history with a bad influence, I don't think there is any need to crack down on such things. If the law is not precise then it will lead to more exploitation and hyperbole.


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## srkmish (Jun 3, 2014)

.jRay. said:


> Shouldn't those guys be doing something to lower crime rates instead of booking people for liking posts.



Bhai, this is the bane of the world. I really dont understand people who actively set out to harm the peace and stability of others instead of doing something constructive. The bottom line is these people feel impotent,worthless and frustrated in their own self . Hence they cant do anything creative to bring about happiness in the world. Instead subconsciously they want to project all their misery and frustration on others and hence choose such action to create life miserable for others.


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## Hrishi (Jun 3, 2014)

Well Facebook pages have become more chaotic than ever....with the increasing number of idiots. 
Just go through the comments section of any page and you'll see how PITA these people are.
You should post opinions not hatred posts.


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## Anorion (Jun 3, 2014)

did those posting on facebook know that one of the conditions of freedom of speech in India to not post anything publicly that can cause disturbance to public order
dont think so
good to see such posts and posters getting into trouble with the police


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## Vyom (Jun 3, 2014)

A good time to leave facebook for those who were still "thinking" to leave.
"Democracy is a myth" never truer before.


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## Anorion (Jun 3, 2014)

oh come on, some of that tripe on social network needs some kind of policing. know the relevent laws that apply to such a space, and to stay within those limits. bet those posters aren't even aware of facebook's own terms of service, let alone the laws that apply to usage of such spaces 
every site is not anon ffa


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## sainath (Jun 4, 2014)

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS POST???? Do you know what is happening on those fb pages? These fb page owners abusing our Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj & Hindu Hriday Samrat Balasaheb Thackeray by posting their offensive edited images. I think you do not leave in Maharashtra, so better to leave Police alone and let them to do their work. By liking and sharing these pics people are helping these brainless page owners to accomplish their aim i.e. to make communal riots between two religious groups.


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## Minion (Jun 4, 2014)

Why any Aam Admi should suffer only? During election lots of Netas used offensive words against each other over Tvs nobody file any case against them This is crap.
I wonder these police Babus have better things to do other than putting people in jails for likes.

- - - Updated - - -

If they cares so much why don't they arrest people for hatred speeches you will find a lot on youtube and these people are never arrested.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 4, 2014)

Many news like this in media looks fabricated to me  about internet.Its that internet is used for blaming incompetance 
of politicians rather than leveraging them for positive things.

1.It was said in media that some offensive post in facebook lead to triger of muzaffarnagar riots.
   Really? Can u believe a fb post can trigger riot in village? The real reason was not that.

2.The same crap was said about azad maidan in mumbai. That some fb,whatsapp msg of assam riot images caused it. Really?
   We know why.

3.Two girls who started a band in jammu were silenced by some ppl after video  of singing posted in social network. A fatwa was issued
   and they were silenced and tortured by media.But was internet to blame?

4.There was Exodus of north east ppl in Bangalore.Same crap again.Blame internet.Really?

I think we shud think twice before believing media and go on facts.

The real reason the techie got killed is being covered up using fb post but does anyone care what situation triggered this?


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## kaz (Jun 4, 2014)

Well said 
Even when social media was not there these violence prevailed ...

- - - Updated - - -

And even the article said using proxies would make you less likely be caught.
One can use cyber cafes to go and post any thing with a new account.


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## Anorion (Jun 4, 2014)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Many news like this in media looks fabricated to me  about internet.Its that internet is used for blaming incompetance
> of politicians rather than leveraging them for positive things.
> 
> 1.It was said in media that some offensive post in facebook lead to triger of muzaffarnagar riots.
> ...



except 3, yes really, posts and shares of misinformation, rumours and autopropoganda do spread rapidly and without control on social media, and these do effect, and atmosphere of fear or doubt spreads easily through social media, you gave examples of recent times when it happened


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 4, 2014)

Anorion said:


> except 3, yes really, posts and shares of misinformation, rumours and autopropoganda do spread rapidly and without control on social media, and these do effect, and atmosphere of fear or doubt spreads easily through social media, you gave examples of recent times when it happened



They do in countries where everyone has internet like US/UK with 80% population on net. In india its hard to believe its because of social network given not even 20% have access to net.


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## Anorion (Jun 4, 2014)

mobile internet is there, even though penetration is less compared to the whole population, the pupulation in that little penetration is not less, considering 20% and whatsapp... and twitter... things spread fast now everyone has. at least for few of these incidents police also had examples of these text messages that were said to be the root of the trouble.


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## Desmond (Jun 5, 2014)

Trolls will always try to cause harm and frequency of such posts is mind boggling. You cannot persecute the whole internet and people need to realize that you cannot avenge such cases all the time. I think people need to stop feeding the trolls and learn to ignore such posts, regardless of the nature of them or the level of offensiveness.


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## sling-shot (Jun 5, 2014)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Trolls will always try to cause harm and frequency of such posts is mind boggling. You cannot persecute the whole internet and people need to realize that you cannot avenge such cases all the time. I think people need to stop feeding the trolls and learn to ignore such posts, regardless of the nature of them or the level of offensiveness.



Exactly.

In this case people who take offense at every real and imaginary point are the ones at fault.

Develop some tolerance. 
Autocratic behaviour is against democracy. 

Why should one go and cause riot for some post on social media? If one feels the need to respond do so in the same social media not in real world.

I really really appreciate the amount of tolerance displayed by Western democracies.


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## Desmond (Jun 5, 2014)

In the US, you will not be persecuted if you burn the US flag in a protest because the US constitution recognizes it as a form of "symbolic speech" and it is considered unconstitutional to persecute you since symbolic speech also comes under Freedom Of Speech.

I am not saying that something like this should be in India as well, but if people are more tolerant towards people, such riots would not happen.

What actually pisses me off is that something on the net riles up people who don't even know what they are fighting for. So few people know what the actual case for the recent Pune riots were about, yet so many people participated and destroyed public properties and put one person in to coma. Such an outburst is absolutely not justified over a few pics that some troll put up.

Hell, even Germany, once a Nazi state, is now a more tolerant society than us.


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## Anorion (Jun 5, 2014)

we are all talking about at least 3 different things here. 
India is not the US. Without going into whether it is better or not, at this time, free speech does not allow you to create public disturbance in India. this is not about right or wrong or moral or immoral, or what should be and should not be. this is merely the current state of the laws in India, if you create public disturbance through fb, you will get into trouble. simple. sure I agree it could be this or it could be that, but right now, it is not. 
Now don't tell me people enjoy more freedom of speech in US than in India. There is no such thing like that, and no need for this comparison. Sure they may be more tolerant about burning of the flag and using it in clothing, which we don't tolerate. But they are also less tolerant of words such as retard, disabled and nigger, or hate speech, which we are not so hung up about. So there are cultural expectations everywhere. 

DOT's ban pages approach to censorship is not only funny, it is applied in an inconsistent manner. If you guys have seen the banned pages, a lot of them are pretty harmless/funny. 

Rampant posting of autopropoganda, inaccurate circulation of facts on fb, twitter, whatsapp and sms... leading to rumor mongering and atmosphere of doubt, or polarization. the only thing that can actually help with this apart from putting them all into jail is education.


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## Desmond (Jun 5, 2014)

Anorion said:


> Rampant posting of autopropoganda, inaccurate circulation of facts on fb, twitter, whatsapp and sms... leading to rumor mongering and atmosphere of doubt, or polarization. the only thing that can actually help with this apart from putting them all into jail is *education*.



Something that most of the reactants lack. But even education is a joke in India. Here, education is just something you do to get a job. Not to learn, to get a job.


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## rish1 (Jun 5, 2014)

Anorion said:


> the only thing that can actually help with this apart from putting them all into jail is education.



so you think sending them to jail is right ? jeez


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## sling-shot (Jun 5, 2014)

The system that puts people in jail for a joke and allows the people to vandalise and destroy in the name of protest perpetuates this situation. 

And when those vandals learn that they can get away with anything they go looking for another issue where they can create trouble.

The way to rectify it is not to muzzle the speech but to make sure there is no disproportionate reaction or punish those who react disproportionately.


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## Anorion (Jun 5, 2014)

sigh. all I wish for is that everyone who uses electronic platforms are thoroughly aware of the agreements they have agreed to and what laws do apply. this is not exhaustive list, but some starting points.



> 66A. Punishment for sending offensive messages through communication service, etc.
> 
> Any person who sends, by means of a computer resource or a communication device,—
> 
> ...



and 

*www.facebook.com/communitystandards


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## sling-shot (Jun 5, 2014)

The wordings can be interpreted in various ways.

Eg. A journalist who was investigating a government official in Maharashtra was booked under  ?Treason Act (waging war against country) 

(I am not sure about the specifics of the above line but I remember reading about that incident in national newspapers)


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## whitestar_999 (Jun 5, 2014)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION],you probably don't have much experience with law/lawyers but rest assured the vague wordings(that is the main issue) of 66A allows police to arrest most of the members here who posted in those science/god/religious threads(including you) if they decide to do so.here is an example:
person A post:i don't believe in ritual xyz of religion abc because it causes traffic jams & i think such practices should not be allowed on public road.
person B post:i agree.
person C post:you dare post such message on the eve of my religion's such important ritual.just wait.
calls local political party office of his religion which then calls local MLA who in turn direct local police station to file a report under 66A for hurting religious sentiments of a section of people & being 'grossly offensive' to them.


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## sling-shot (Jun 5, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> [MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION],you probably don't have much experience with law/lawyers but rest assured the vague wordings(that is the main issue) of 66A allows police to arrest most of the members here who posted in those science/god/religious threads(including you) if they decide to do so.here is an example:
> person A post:i don't believe in ritual xyz of religion abc because it causes traffic jams & i think such practices should not be allowed on public road.
> person B post:i agree.
> person C post:you dare post such message on the eve of my religion's such important ritual.just wait.
> calls local political party office of his religion which then calls local MLA who in turn direct local police station to file a report under 66A for hurting religious sentiments of a section of people & being 'grossly offensive' to them.



You hit the point perfectly


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## gagan_kumar (Jun 6, 2014)

in my view posting of offensive stuff shouldn't be treated lightly.......


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## Anorion (Jun 6, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> [MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION],you probably don't have much experience with law/lawyers but rest assured the vague wordings(that is the main issue) of 66A allows police to arrest most of the members here who posted in those science/god/religious threads(including you) if they decide to do so.here is an example:
> person A post:i don't believe in ritual xyz of religion abc because it causes traffic jams & i think such practices should not be allowed on public road.
> person B post:i agree.
> person C post:you dare post such message on the eve of my religion's such important ritual.just wait.
> calls local political party office of his religion which then calls local MLA who in turn direct local police station to file a report under 66A for hurting religious sentiments of a section of people & being 'grossly offensive' to them.


yes thank you. perfectly innocent and normal things can cause incidents which actually have nothing to do at all with those outraged and disturbed. It is better to be sensitive and careful, rather than blame the public when it happens.


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## Inceptionist (Jun 6, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> @Anorion,you probably don't have much experience with law/lawyers but rest assured the vague wordings(that is the main issue) of 66A allows police to arrest most of the members here who posted in those science/god/religious threads(including you) if they decide to do so.here is an example:
> person A post:i don't believe in ritual xyz of religion abc because it causes traffic jams & i think such practices should not be allowed on public road.
> person B post:i agree.
> person C post:you dare post such message on the eve of my religion's such important ritual.just wait.
> calls local political party office of his religion which then calls local MLA who in turn direct local police station to file a report under 66A for hurting religious sentiments of a section of people & being 'grossly offensive' to them.



You forgot about the part where MLA (or any other _neta_) takes bunch of goons to beat the crap out of 'offender'. Often in front of camera, no less.


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## Anorion (Jun 16, 2014)

Facebook troll jailed for insults over stabbing of Leeds teacher Ann Maguire - Yorkshire Post
see its not just here, you post dumb stuff on fb you gonna get into trouble, there are other places for "freedom of speech"


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## amjath (Jun 16, 2014)

Anorion said:


> Facebook troll jailed for insults over stabbing of Leeds teacher Ann Maguire - Yorkshire Post
> see its not just here, you post dumb stuff on fb you gonna get into trouble, there are other places for "freedom of speech"


people don't know what freedom of speech and hate speech is. They think they are preaching things or giving feedback but they are not.


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## Desmond (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, for once.

Freedom of Speech =/= Freedom to be an a*****e.

You can always move express yourselves anonymously on other platforms such as reddit.


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## sling-shot (Jun 16, 2014)

No there really isn't. It may be today but not tomorrow. Soon anything you say anywhere will offend (gravely) someone and you will have to say nothing for you never know what will offend someone.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Jun 16, 2014)

Remember  No where there is " Absolute freedom" .Some where both offender and law makers are at all fault


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