# Ever heard of...?



## DizitalNovice (May 14, 2008)

What's the matter with you guys? Someone is concerned about the English language, someone about Pakis. Some people even are interested in hot debates whether Dogs should be treated like they are or not. Man!
Ever heard of patriotism? I am sick and tired of people not respecting our motherland. Recently    one of my friends was walking down the road with me and there was a  Tricolor lying on the road(thanks to some patriotic and janhit karne wali politics). As I bent to pick it up, my friend conveniently stepped on it and continued on his way.
Whenever I am engaged in a debate on this topic, friends conveniently label me as a BUDDHA(Not the enlightened but old). What say?
Also I would be much obliged if someone would enlighten me about why our country is called India and not Bharat. US is not called Amrika, neither is Russia called Roos! They name their country in their language but our country is named in English and YET Hindi is our national language! I am proud of people caring about Mumbai (Bombay), to hell with the nation. After all only Maharashtrians are going to vote them. Why care about the country?


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## m-jeri (May 14, 2008)

Wats ur point???
u talking bat patriotism or language or politicians or name of cities or ........

Please quote the subject pal...


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## DizitalNovice (May 14, 2008)

I am talking about all the insensitiveness and ignorance that has occupied all people. I am talking about patriotism. All others come under this one huge feeling itself! be it names or politicians' gaddari to our nation,or be it the disrespect we have become used to.


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## Faun (May 14, 2008)

patriotism is well seen in crisis.


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## DizitalNovice (May 14, 2008)

@t159
couldn't get you. Please make yourself clear!


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## neelu09 (May 14, 2008)

DizitalNovice said:


> @t159
> couldn't get you. Please make yourself clear!




what he means is that everyone has the fire of patriotism in themselves. But it is revealed only when there is true crisis. Like an attack or something. Then everyone will be ready to lay down their lives for their motherland.


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## karmanya (May 15, 2008)

DizitalNovice said:


> @t159
> couldn't get you. Please make yourself clear!



I find that very ironic.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 15, 2008)

> Someone is concerned about the English language


why should I not be concerned about english language ?


> someone about Pakis


whats wrong with being concerned about pakis ?


> Some people even are interested in hot debates whether Dogs should be treated like they are or not


anything wrong with discussing animal rights ?


> ...and YET Hindi is our national language


language by choice is stronger than language by chance



PS: your topic is sooo intresting, that I decided to delete mine. I made mine because I had nothing new to aruge about and made it as provocative to replies as I could, but your topic is waaaaaaay better. Thanks.


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## legolas (May 15, 2008)

DizitalNovice said:


> What's the matter with you guys? Someone is concerned about the English language, someone about Pakis. Some people even are interested in hot debates whether Dogs should be treated like they are or not. Ever heard of patriotism? I am sick and tired of people not respecting our motherland.


Do you mean to say we shouldn't discuss anything other than our Motherland? or we should all vent our frustration in only "speaking" about Patriotism like you? If speaking about a country's troubles/issues/corruption/politics/economics/research etc.. with rationality/thought/time/cynicism/sarcasm is being "anti-patriotic" you should just come out of your midget hole eye-wrap and get a better one. Patriotism is not about preening over the things one's country is good at or best at. 
What other stories like taking the flag from the ground, (applause of course) so that no others mean disrespect to it, do you have to say? Did you join the army or police, oh wait, you wrote the examination and cleared but failed in physical fitness?? 

PS: Stop stealing others' threads!!


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## MetalheadGautham (May 15, 2008)

@legolas: fully agreed with you there. what we see is a national hypocrite who is totally over biased towards topics concerning his country to an extent which makes him hate other topics.


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## DizitalNovice (May 15, 2008)

@legolas
Well yes, I failed in the physical test. couldn't see myself sacrificing my life in the army with no money and no pleasure.
Nothing in the world is anti patriotic unless concerned with negativity. I just wanted to bring to attention not only how all of us are concerned about things which matter(of course), but also how we disregard our own goodness. Like that said na "Ghar ki Murgi Dal barabar". That is all I wanted to say. I am sorry you people are hurt because of my cynism. I don't hate other topics , just wanted to bring this to ur attention too.


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## legolas (May 15, 2008)

irritated by your garrulous ignorance rather than hurt by your cynicism would be better.
Peace.


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## jal_desai (May 15, 2008)

Well, none of you are unpatriotic just because we are not joining the Army... Jiski zaroorat jahn pe hoti hai vahin pe hoti hai.... I am an IT engg. I will provide my knowledge to my country to make it grow... Some other will go to the border and protecit... ITS NOT ALWAYS PHYSICAL... IT CAN BE SPIRITUAL, MENTAL AND EVEN PSYCHOLOGICAL.... IT IS TRUE THAT WE ARE ABOVE 100 CRORES, BUT WE STILL ARE INTEGRATED... AND STILL YOU CAN SEE DEVELOPMENT IN OUR COUNTRY... IF THIS POPULATION IS PUT IN AMERICA THEN ITS ECONOMY WOULD FALL LIKE HOUSE OF CARDS... SOME PROBLEMS ARE THERE BUT LOOK AT THE BRIGHTER SIDE... COZ *IT DOESNT MATTER HOW FAR EVIL GOES... IT ALWAYS REMAINS ONE STEP BEHIND THE GOOD*


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## GeekyBoy (May 16, 2008)

He wants to make it clear that disrespecting your country's national flag is the worst crime that you can ever commit against your country. We all claim to consider our country as our motherland. But if we truly consider it and someone steps on the national flag, shouldn't it be equivalent to someone stepping on their own mother! Tell me, would anyone do that ??????


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## legolas (May 16, 2008)

^ ^ its appreciated. but, that doesn't mean speaking about English language and its potential misuse is in anyway below par or showing disrespect or being negligent or being lenient in one's views or patriotism over one's motherland. 
This is not a "post on only motherland" or "show your patriotism by preening over your actions" thread section.
This thread was opened as a directed consequence of a now-closed thread in venting his frustration over the topics that doesn't interest him (the original poster). Its better to restrain from giving your views or posting your concerned views reg. that post in that thread. Not stealing others threads and play the "patriotism" card!!
All this coming from a person who most possibly has had English as the first language in schools and colleges!! I would validate your concerns by giving my views and respecting yours, if the thread was just like any other thread with your concerns/interests/opinions and not a reflection of your misconceptions from others' threads.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 16, 2008)

about the national flag, national anthem, respect to national language, etc here is my take:

*It is bullshit*

whats the point of all this silly stupid symbolic stuff ? People matter more than such symbolic entities.I don't care if a national flag is thrown on the ground; but if its plastic or made from some other toxic material, I like to ensure that its disposed properly. I don't care if someone speaks in a language other than hindi, because in reality, national language does not exist here. Finally, to hell with those who oppose people calling the national anthem boring or bad. Its their freedom to critic any anthem. You can never impose symbolic ideals on people and hope to get away with it.

For a patriot, if he/she is given a choice between rescuing 10 non Indians by doing action #1, and rescuing two Indians holding a national flag by doing action #2, given that all people are equally good and have equal potential to help the world and the patriot bears no grudge or enimity against anyone, he/she would do action #2 just because the people involved are Indians and they hold the Indian national flag. And a sceptic would rush with action #1 instantaneously. Thats the difference between extreme patriotism and rationalism.




PS: doing my bit to keep a good topic alive


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## GeekyBoy (May 17, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> about the national flag, national anthem, respect to national language, etc here is my take:
> 
> *It is bullshit*
> 
> whats the point of all this silly stupid symbolic stuff ? People matter more than such symbolic entities.I don't care if a national flag is thrown on the ground;



You can't say that.......your flag represents your nation! Think about the martyrs that laid their lives down for the nation. If you think this is "bullshit", then you would be doing injustice to the lives of hundreds and thousands of souls who gave away their lives so that we could live in peace.

People matter, but why do injustice to the national flag? Wouldn't it hurt your conscience if you felt that someone values their lives so little compared to what they have done for us ?


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## MetalheadGautham (May 17, 2008)

GeekyBoy said:


> You can't say that.......your flag represents your nation! Think about the martyrs that laid their lives down for the nation. If you think this is "bullshit", then you would be doing injustice to the lives of hundreds and thousands of souls who gave away their lives so that we could live in peace.
> 
> People matter, but why do injustice to the national flag? Wouldn't it hurt your conscience if you felt that someone values their lives so little compared to what they have done for us ?


I value people, not the flag. I respect the people who died for it, only because of their dedication. But symbols have no real significance in times like these. Wars and other times when people need something to identify themselves with can make the situation change as the flag is then a symbol. *But symbols should not be treated as reality, its as simple as that.*


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## GeekyBoy (May 18, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> I value people, not the flag. I respect the people who died for it, only because of their dedication. But symbols have no real significance in times like these. Wars and other times when people need something to identify themselves with can make the situation change as the flag is then a symbol. *But symbols should not be treated as reality, its as simple as that.*



You are incorrigible.
Why do you hate the flag so much when it brings unity to the whole nation?

And then you are contemplating English, whose original adopters feel pride in speaking in their national language, whereas you feel no shame in loathing your national language, Hindi???


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## MetalheadGautham (May 18, 2008)

GeekyBoy said:


> You are incorrigible.
> Why do you hate the flag so much when it brings unity to the whole nation?
> 
> And then you are contemplating English, whose original adopters feel pride in speaking in their national language, whereas you feel no shame in loathing your national language, Hindi???


Did I say I hate my flag ? I just said it has little or no significance to me.

And Who said you can call hindi the national language just like that ? You think just because majority speak hindi everyone else must speak it and call it the national language ? I had been through four languages before choosing english. From being born till age 3, I knew nothing ecept tamil and malayalam. At age 4, I knew gujrati and hindi. Then at age 8, I came in contact with english and kannada. I chose english finally, only because I prefered it and liked it. True language of a person is a matter of choice, not chance.


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## GeekyBoy (May 18, 2008)

Take no offense, but I think South Indians have a tendency to go against Hindi. 

See, actually we all are from different regions- like I'm from Kolkata and my mother tongue is Bengali. Similarly a person staying in Gujarat has Gujarati as his mother tongue. Notice that except for a few states like Delhi and Bihar no other state has Hindi as its mother tongue. But since we don't know each other's mother tongue(like I don't know Gujrati, a Gujrati doesn't know Bengali,etc), Hindi is the language which is common to us and which we use in communicating with each other. It makes us feel united and we feel we are under a single banner(which is very important since regional differences might arise), when there is huge diversity in India.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 18, 2008)

GeekyBoy said:


> Take no offense, but I think South Indians have a tendency to go against Hindi.
> 
> See, actually we all are from different regions- like I'm from Kolkata and my mother tongue is Bengali. Similarly a person staying in Gujarat has Gujarati as his mother tongue. Notice that except for a few states like Delhi and Bihar no other state has Hindi as its mother tongue. But since we don't know each other's mother tongue(like I don't know Gujrati, a Gujrati doesn't know Bengali,etc), Hindi is the language which is common to us and which we use in communicating with each other. It makes us feel united and we feel we are under a single banner(which is very important since regional differences might arise), when there is huge diversity in India.


south Indians have a tendency to go against hindi ? mabe or mabe not, but it does not affect me, for I am neither a north Indian nor a South Indian. I was effectively raised during my growing period in both regions, and I am rather good at handling hindi. I just don't like any language, weather english, hindi, or any regional language, being called the national language and forcefully imposing it upon people.

And if I use your defination of hindi being a common language, you might as well say english, or even sanskrit for that matter, are common languages as everyone studies/knows them.

But the choice of english goes far beyond. With hindi, you restrict yourself to addressing a few crores of people in the world. But when english is mentioned, you can talk to quite a few billions of people in this world. Plus, its script is easy to use, especially because it lacks character modifiers and hence can be easily used on computers, typwriters and the like.

Unfortunately, the diversity bit is going a bit too far. We may end up like the USSR, which, having russian as the common language, but several regions with indivudual languages finally breaking apart to form russia, khazkistan, usbekistan, tajjikistan, turkmenistan, and the like.


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## GeekyBoy (May 18, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> south Indians have a tendency to go against hindi ? mabe or mabe not, but it does not affect me, for I am neither a north Indian nor a South Indian. I was effectively raised during my growing period in both regions, and I am rather good at handling hindi. I just don't like any language, weather english, hindi, or any regional language, being called the national language and forcefully imposing it upon people.
> 
> And if I use your defination of hindi being a common language, you might as well say english, or even sanskrit for that matter, are common languages as everyone studies/knows them.
> 
> ...



When you glorify the use of english to such an extent, let me tell you that such spelling mistakes are unacceptable.



MetalheadGautham said:


> And if I use your defination of hindi being a common language, you might as well say english, or even sanskrit for that matter, are common languages as everyone studies/knows them.



I'm sorry, but not everyone knows Sanskrit nowadays.
About the Hindi part, I was trying to say that when Hindi is used as a common language it creates a true sense of unity among us, because the language is native to India unlike English.



MetalheadGautham said:


> But the choice of english goes far beyond. With hindi, you restrict yourself to addressing a few crores of people in the world. But when english is mentioned, you can talk to quite a few billions of people in this world. Plus, its script is easy to use, especially because it lacks character modifiers and hence can be easily used on computers, typwriters and the like.



Accepted, but what do you mean by that it lacks character modifiers ?


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## karnivore (May 18, 2008)

@GeekyBoy

I am from Kolkata too, and as much Bengali, as one can be. Although I can speak Hindi fairly well, but I refuse to accept Hindi as a common medium. Only because it is a blatant imposition. Gujrat, Marathi, Punjabi (Gurmukhi) are all very close to Hindi. It is not difficult for them to adapt to this language. But in contrast to Bengali, Uria, Assamese etc. of the east and Tamil, Kannada, Telegu etc. of the south, the language is like Hebrew. You cann't impose hindi onto these people on the plea of "rule of majority".

One major correction here. Hindi is *NOT* our natinal language,  constitutionally or otherwise. We had a debated regarding this in this thread. Some really good points were made there, by @Praka123 and @drgrudge. You will also find some good resources that might enlighten you. However, allow me to quote my own post @ #107: (Mind you, I was only responding to some comments made by some members there.)


			
				karnivore  said:
			
		

> ..
> In 1950, when The Constitution was enacted, it was decided that hindi and English would be the 2 official languages till 1965, after which, hindi would be the only official language. Again, what the fuk. Expectedly, thanks largely to the South, another “freedom” struggle started in the “free” India. Only this time around, against the “hegemony” of hindi and its fanboys. It was then, Lal Bahadur Shastri, the then PM, realized the enormity of the stupidity and retained english. Today, we are stealing a march from the Yellow men, largely because of that movement.
> ..
> I don’t support “imposition of hindi”, (mind you not the language “hindi”) because it goes against propriety, against the freedom of choice and, if I may, against the very premise of “unity in diversity”.



If you choose hindi, you are more than welcome. 

As with the national flag thingie. I agree that the symbolism in a national flag, gives a sense of belonging to its citizens. But remember, just as you have the right to hoist your flag, your other fellow citizen has the right not to.

If I have got it right, then @metalhead is not disrespecting the national flag. He is refusing the tokenism and uber patriotism associated with it. And in that, allow me to join hands with him.


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## Renny (May 18, 2008)

Well last week I'm sure you guys know about the fighting in Kashmir(Samba Sector),

Those fcuking Pakistani Rangers opened fire on the Indian side to provide "cover fire" for the terrorists, well 2 days later those fcuking Pakistani Rangers again opened fire heavy fire for no apparent reason on Indian posts,

And the Indian side says "we did not retaliate",

WTF is going on here! 

Do you think any other country would've taken this sorta crap! If we had done something like this to China would they have not retaliated!

We need to have some sorta aggressive foreign policy to deal with nations like China and Porkistan.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 18, 2008)

GeekyBoy said:


> When you glorify the use of english to such an extent, let me tell you that such spelling mistakes are unacceptable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


when did I glorify english ? I said I like it, hence I use it. Period. Just like linux.

and char modifyers arestuff yoiu add to a charactter, like the aa, o, ou, aun, ea, i, etc sound you add to a basic character in devanagiri.


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## DizitalNovice (May 18, 2008)

Well, I never thought this will still continue. Good Good. 
@MetalHead
BTW, Y don't u reply wen some1 questions your spellings?

very very off topic:
O man, people here keep such apt names, "metalhead": anything said by anyone just won't have any effect,immune. []
Please no offense meant!


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## MetalheadGautham (May 18, 2008)

DizitalNovice said:


> Well, I never thought this will still continue. Good Good.
> @MetalHead
> BTW, Y don't u reply wen some1 questions your spellings?
> 
> ...


1. I have already replied countless times that (i) I have a funny keyboard and (ii) I don't give a damn to the spelling when its the message that is more important.

2. It is not my problem that you have not bothered to find out the meaning of the word "metalhead" from either a dictionary or the internet. Just try googling for the word or search in Wikipedia to get the result.


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## DizitalNovice (May 22, 2008)

Oops, you got me there! 
By the way, I hope you understand that I was just kidding.


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## Plasma_Snake (May 22, 2008)

All I want to say is this:
When this thread was started by "DizitalNovice", I thought OMFG, ShivSena here too 
But things turned out differently. We Indians are known as the most racist people, discriminating others on the basis of their caste,religion and even states but its India that matters most to all of us. We have more than 25% of our population under poverty line, we have states with high industrial growth like in Northern India and then those where Industrial growth implies to land grabbing and bloodshed like Eastern India.
With huge disparity in the standard of education,living and growth among people we are still able to forge our way ahead and progress and be called upon as a nation of gluttons and spendthrifts by "Ameri****s"(Yeah I hate America, but love The Simpsons)


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