# 'Delhi is unlivable': NYT reporter has every reason to abandon city



## Desmond (Jun 2, 2015)

> Some call it “capital punishment” that kills slowly; others simply put it as air pollution — a lethal cocktail of toxic gases spewing from vehicle exhausts and factories mixed with dust and microscopic particles that sticks to human lung walls like industrial sludge.
> 
> Welcome to Delhi, the capital of Asia’s second-largest economy and one of the bottom-ranked megacities for foul air in recent World Health Organization data.
> Or, goodbye Delhi!
> ...



Source: 'Delhi is unlivable': NYT reporter has every reason to abandon city


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## dashing.sujay (Jun 2, 2015)

I know the feeling


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## theserpent (Jun 2, 2015)

Why can't they do limit the number of new vechiles being added to the road to the number of vechiles being scrapped in a month? And do other steps also to go green.


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## Vyom (Jun 2, 2015)

Cause going green is last on their priorities. Looks like green DTC didn't do any good in Delhi.

Maybe the reporter was extra sensitive since times have changed in few years. Or maybe my body have adapted to the pollution.


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## kkn13 (Jun 2, 2015)

theserpent said:


> Why can't they do limit the number of new vechiles being added to the road to the number of vechiles being scrapped in a month? And do other steps also to go green.



Thats not the solution
The main issue are these stupid contractors who run 2-3 decade old vans,trucks and buses
^^Im from Mumbai where this is very very prevalent
Commercial vehicles shouldnt be allowed on the road beyond say 10 years max imho

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Vyom said:


> Maybe the reporter was extra sensitive since times have changed in few years. Or maybe my body have adapter to the pollution.



yeah or maybe he is like the other foreigners who like to exaggerate about issues in Indian cities
NYC is equally polluted,Ive been there and Its air is probably worse than Mumbai for sure
even noise pollution is higher in NYC


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## Vyom (Jun 2, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> yeah or maybe he is like the other foreigners who like to exaggerate about issues in Indian cities
> NYC is equally polluted,Ive been there and Its air is probably worse than Mumbai for sure
> even noise pollution is higher in NYC



Agree, he could be just exaggerate. Cleanliness I agree could be one potential problem, that Delhi still haven't got solution for.
If the reporter would have been written about "cleanliness" that would have make more sense.

Looks like someone got handsomely paid for this article.


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## icebags (Jun 2, 2015)

theserpent said:


> Why can't they do limit the number of new vechiles being added to the road to the number of vechiles being scrapped in a month? And do other steps also to go green.



people seem to forget tons of people smoking everywhere, tons of kgs of greenhouse gasses, floating ash particles and funny chemicals, not to forget lots of unwanted heat.

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kkn13 said:


> yeah or maybe he is like the other foreigners who like to exaggerate about issues in Indian cities
> NYC is equally polluted,Ive been there and Its air is probably worse than Mumbai for sure
> even noise pollution is higher in NYC



dont think so, whenever i see the roads from afar, they all appear smokey with long chain of poorly maintained new or aged cars, as if some stove is burning.


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## theserpent (Jun 2, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> Thats not the solution
> *The main issue are these stupid contractors who run 2-3 decade old vans,trucks and buses*
> ^^Im from Mumbai where this is very very prevalent
> Commercial vehicles shouldnt be allowed on the road beyond say 10 years max imho
> ...



This, plus overloading of cars in the street's.They should emphasize on public transport.
Had been to Singapore a week back,over there they have this rule where you need to bid for a certificate to buy a car , so they see the number of cars going off road and make only a few available a month and heck even basic cars like honda city doesn't cost a bit less like in India,That way their roads are not over crowded.
I don't know why do they focus on development so much,Yes we need it, but to such a extent that...you unlist yourself from the world heritage city list by UNESCO? Saying it will hamper developments.?


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## kkn13 (Jun 3, 2015)

icebags said:


> dont think so, whenever i see the roads from afar, they all appear smokey with long chain of poorly maintained new or aged cars, as if some stove is burning.



I dunno much about Delhi since I havent spent much time there but I live in Mumbai and I travel to alot of places including NYC
NYC is most definately more polluted than Mumbai for sure

about the chemicals,particles etc totally agreed,that seems to be a major concern for Delhi from what ive heard

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Vyom said:


> Agree, he could be just exaggerate. Cleanliness I agree could be one potential problem, that Delhi still haven't got solution for.
> If the reporter would have been written about "cleanliness" that would have make more sense.
> 
> Looks like someone got handsomely paid for this article.



yep,western media rarely shows their own country issues imho
too busy peeping into others issues

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theserpent said:


> This, plus overloading of cars in the street's.They should emphasize on public transport.
> Had been to Singapore a week back,over there they have this rule where you need to bid for a certificate to buy a car , so they see the number of cars going off road and make only a few available a month and heck even basic cars like honda city doesn't cost a bit less like in India,That way their roads are not over crowded.
> I don't know why do they focus on development so much,Yes we need it, but to such a extent that...you unlist yourself from the world heritage city list by UNESCO? Saying it will hamper developments.?



but thats not why Singapore did it
Singapore is an island,they cant have more than a certain amount of vehicles at a time as congestion wont have a solution
In case of Mumbai and Delhi,old or excess vehicles can always go out of the cities to other towns etc


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## Faun (Jun 3, 2015)

theserpent said:


> This, plus overloading of cars in the street's.They should emphasize on public transport.



Should work towards better public transport.


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## unuckfut (Jun 3, 2015)

I wonder what would be his views about Delhi's weather during monsoon, not that I am saying it will be pollution free, but will be far more pleasant.


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## kkn13 (Jun 3, 2015)

Faun said:


> Should work towards better public transport.



yeah Singapore,NYC,London have such efficient public transport systems,no one really buys/needs cars especially with the bad parking issues(even worse than in India because of strict parking laws)
even as a tourist whenever I visit these places,I end up using their public transport as its massively cheap ,speedy and tourist-friendly


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## theserpent (Jun 3, 2015)

Maybe move industries 50 kms away from the city? 
Make new lung spaces in the city, presently most of the cities across the world needs it. (Bejing,Shanghai,Hong Kong esp)


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## Desmond (Jun 3, 2015)

AFAIK, Beijing already started rounding up vehicles that are more than 20 years old or so and started retiring them. They actually paid people to retire their old vehicles. We should do something similar. 

Source: China to take 6 million older vehicles off roads | Daily Mail Online

What is it about people that whenever a foreign national writes an article about some shortcoming in India, people dismiss it as mudslinging and make comments that their country is not better or sometimes worse. Even if NYC is worse, we don't live over there, but we have to live here and everyone knows that Indians have the weakest lungs in the world.

On the other hand, if this article were written by an Indian national, no one would give two f***s. Is this what we've come to?


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## dashing.sujay (Jun 3, 2015)

In delhi, pollution highly varies across the city. Somewhere, it's like you can't see beyond 50 meters and somewhere, it's quite OK. A friend of mine had stayed with me for some time. He had problem of sinus. Now whenever he stepped out in the streets, he always became ill, so go imagine.


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## Anorion (Jun 3, 2015)

as far as Delhi is concerned, industries are not to blame
it's vehicles and dust. Dust from paved roads contribute more to the pollution than the industries...


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## Akashay (Jun 3, 2015)

Don't tell Delhi is bad and print whatever comes in your mind, last time i checked USA, UK and all the developed countries were the main reason for Global Warming (but that NYT reporter will not bother to cover that).


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## kkn13 (Jun 3, 2015)

Akashay said:


> Don't tell Delhi is bad and print whatever comes in your mind, last time i checked USA, UK and all the developed countries were the main reason for Global Warming (but that NYT reporter will not bother to cover that).



Foreigners love to exaggerate about developing economies as though they are oh-so-perfect
not saying he's entirely wrong but he surely is exaggerating imho


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## Anorion (Jun 4, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> not saying he's entirely wrong but he surely is exaggerating imho



yes, little bit. But that exaggeration is not more than what is necessary to bring the issue to light.

PS real time monitoring of pollution here> *www.cpcb.gov.in/cpcbpa/index.aspx?state=delhi
usually, all official sources government sources maintain there is no problem


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## kkn13 (Jun 4, 2015)

Anorion said:


> yes, little bit. But that exaggeration is not more than what is necessary to bring the issue to light.
> 
> PS real time monitoring of pollution here> *www.cpcb.gov.in/cpcbpa/index.aspx?state=delhi
> usually, all official sources government sources maintain there is no problem



yeah thats another issue that needs tackling!


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## gemini90 (Jun 4, 2015)

*HOLD YOUR BREATH AND CUT THE HYPERBOLE, MR NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER*

Newslaundry ? Hold Your Breath And Cut The Hyperbole, Mr New York Times Reporter



> To be sure, away from the customary “My wife was out walking with a friend, and their eyes became teary and their throats began to close,” Harris does back his story up by providing as many as 26 citations. Here’s the breakdown:
> 
> 1 on Delhi’s monkey menace
> 
> ...


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## Faun (Jun 4, 2015)

Our own desi portal to check AQI
National Air Quality Index


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## Akashay (Jun 4, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> Foreigners love to exaggerate about developing economies as though they are oh-so-perfect
> not saying he's entirely wrong but he surely is exaggerating imho



I was wondering if the reporter got a heart attack when he come to knew about  Meggi and Potty Incidence


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## theserpent (Jun 4, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> Thats not the solution
> The main issue are these stupid contractors who run 2-3 decade old vans,trucks and buses
> ^^Im from Mumbai where this is very very prevalent
> Commercial vehicles shouldnt be allowed on the road beyond say 10 years max imho
> ...



Nop.US is trying to going green atleast.
Pollution comparison Today morning between USA and Delhi : india
Just see this.
Edited:
Mumbai is one of the lesser polluted cities of india good to known
Air Quality Monitoring Stations

Edit 2:
India,China,South America and a few parts of North America are the most polluted
Air Pollution in North America: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map


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## gemini90 (Jun 4, 2015)

theserpent said:


> Nop.US is trying to going green atleast.
> Pollution comparison Today morning between USA and Delhi : india
> Just see this.
> Edited:
> ...



India too is trying to go green. The no. of steps taken, schemes launched and the amount of money being poured in is significant. And your goody good industrialized nations are passively trying to scuttle that effort being made by 'the most polluted parts of world' alonf with development process, you know.

The games they play at climate summits!


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## theserpent (Jun 4, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> *India too is trying to go green.* The no. of steps taken, schemes launched and the amount of money being poured in is significant. And your goody good industrialized nations are passively trying to scuttle that effort being made by 'the most polluted parts of world' alonf with development process, you know.
> 
> The games they play at climate summits!



50-50.They are still at the development stage sadly, they are trying not to get the "UNESCO" Tags because it will hamper their so called development.(RIP Western Ghats- in the future).


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## gemini90 (Jun 4, 2015)

theserpent said:


> 50-50.They are still at the development stage sadly, they are trying not to get the "UNESCO" Tags because it will hamper their so called development.(RIP Western Ghats- in the future).



Well, yes we are still at development stage because while the industrialists countries (who by the way lead the way in pollution) are now rich enough to the green way relatively easy and cheaply (as a % of their budgets) and at the same time are trying to force us into iron clauses to do the same (when our role in pollution worldwide is minute) without financing a part of our effort/ giving us their tech, a promise they made earlier in previous climate summits. We have to develop our own tech with our own money. Why should India be put on par with the industrialists countries than?

And what is with us Indians? Always fighting the fight on behalf of others against our own.

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And as for western ghat, see the Gov. appointed Gadgil committee report

Western Ghats: Ecologically Sensitive Zone (ECZ) & WGEA

So don't say that efforts are not being made.


*And do check which country is targeting 100GW of solar electricity by 2020. We are doing our share of work to reduce pollution.*


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## theserpent (Jun 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> Well, yes we are still at development stage because while the industrialists countries (who by the way lead the way in pollution) are now rich enough to the green way relatively easy and cheaply (as a % of their budgets) and at the same time are trying to force us into iron clauses to do the same (when our role in pollution worldwide is minute) without financing a part of our effort/ giving us their tech, a promise they made earlier in previous climate summits. We have to develop our own tech with our own money. Why should India be put on par with the industrialists countries than?
> 
> And what is with us Indians? Always fighting the fight on behalf of others against our own.
> 
> ...



There is a point though.Surely, in the next 5-10 years efforts are going to be made to reduce pollution.


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## kkn13 (Jun 5, 2015)

theserpent said:


> Nop.US is trying to going green atleast.
> Pollution comparison Today morning between USA and Delhi : india
> Just see this.
> Edited:
> ...



trying to go green??? how??? with those huuge petrol thirsty SUVs and sports cars etc??

Ive been to NYC,its very very polluted
US isnt perfect ,wastage is very very high there

for eg
you go to buy a cup of milk , they will give you a full carton for the same price
the average american will drink a little, then throw it away

How Much Garbage Does a Person Create in One Year?

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gemini90 said:


> India too is trying to go green. The no. of steps taken, schemes launched and the amount of money being poured in is significant. And your goody good industrialized nations are passively trying to scuttle that effort being made by 'the most polluted parts of world' alonf with development process, you know.
> 
> The games they play at climate summits!



exactly !! also they dont have an entire population to take care of
they dont have to deal with poor illiteracy rates in villages or poverty like India has to

they also had a headstart as we got independence pretty late

the developed countries are the ones who are responsible for climate issues etc


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## theserpent (Jun 5, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> trying to go green??? how??? with those huuge petrol thirsty SUVs and sports cars etc??
> 
> Ive been to NYC,its very very polluted
> US isnt perfect ,wastage is very very high there
> ...



Completely agree with this.
Finally they are saying Ganga will show signs of being pollution free by next year


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## Faun (Jun 5, 2015)

kkn13 said:


> exactly !! also they dont have an entire population to take care of
> they dont have to deal with poor illiteracy rates in villages or poverty like India has to
> 
> they also had a headstart as we got independence pretty late
> ...



Stop harping about how they got all the advantages. South Korea got independence pretty late too. Do something rather than rant here. We still have lot of mess to clean up.

The State, Systems of Innovation and Economic Growth: Comparative Perspectives from India and South Korea 1 | Lakhwinder Singh - Academia.edu

*upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Per_capita_GDP_of_South_Asian_economies_%26_SKorea_%281950-1995%29.png

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kkn13 said:


> trying to go green??? how??? with those huuge petrol thirsty SUVs and sports cars etc??
> 
> Ive been to NYC,its very very polluted
> US isnt perfect ,wastage is very very high there
> ...



We are sure trying to go green with less people interested in buying SUVs here. Appreciate your concern about that.

NYC is very polluted and US is not perfect. Ok, got your point. 

How do you come to an assumption that average american will drink a little (<10% ?) and throw everything else ? I haven't seen that type of luxury during my travels abroad. Met people who are as frugal as anyone can be here.


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## gemini90 (Jun 5, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] These optics are very important when you are most likely to be singled out in the next climate summit as the single most cause for world's gov failure to contain and reduce pollution. Look at what happened at copenhagen where all the developing and under-developed countries bandied together to protect their rights. Look at how india is being singled out as the only block to WTO agreement when we are just trying to protect the rights of our farmers. You can't just be defensive infront of the western nations.

Being humble gains us nothing and even lets others trample on our legitimate rights. As an example - 


India to push for cut in farm subsidies of rich nations | Business Standard News



> The issue was expected to be raised by Minister of State for Commerce and Industry Nirmala Sitharaman at an informal meeting of trade ministers under the aegis of the World Trade Organization (WTO), on the sidelines of a meeting of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in Paris on Wednesday.


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## Faun (Jun 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] These optics are very important when you are most likely to be singled out in the next climate summit as the single most cause for world's gov failure to contain and reduce pollution. Look at what happened at copenhagen where all the developing and under-developed countries bandied together to protect their rights. Look at how india is being singled out as the only block to WTO agreement when we are just trying to protect the rights of our farmers. You can't just be defensive infront of the western nations.



Do we need to harp about on a daily basis from the anecdotal evidences we find or make up to suit our agenda ? Don't you see the folly of this vicious circle. Act rather than continuing the circle.


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## Anorion (Jun 5, 2015)

Who should point out when development projects have adverse effects on the ecosystem.


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## gemini90 (Jun 5, 2015)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] Our independent and autonomous institutions like National Green Tribunal, a judicial body and people through by filing PIL's etc in Supreme Court (CNG Delhi ? the world?s cleanest public bus system running on CNG | The Product-Life Institute). May take time but if you allow outsiders to butt in your internal matters, you can be 100% sure that they will use it to profit and protect their own interests which may run counter to ours.

For eg, the Western funded agitation against Russian origin Kudankulam nuclear plant.

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  [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] You tell me, are we not acting in regards to the environment?


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## kkn13 (Jun 5, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION]
Ive been to like 30 countries during my travels
America like to live life king size
they pay the same rates as us but get much more quantity
you order 1 meal there in most places and itll be enough for 2-3 people easily

their wastage rate is the highest in the world , the people there,some of them my own friends and relatives dont buy "just enough"
its like use and throw


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## Anorion (Jun 5, 2015)

nuclear power is extremely expensive to insure, which is why the Russian deal failed. Skeptical about how modern and up to date the new nuclear power plants will be, and wonder if there are better alternatives. Solar is a good option for India. 

our systems are too corrupt to be trusted to handle this on their own. 

forest rights act already diluted, coal blocks in sensitive areas auctioned... that is where the Tiger's live, forest at Mahan going...
hornbills and frogs cannot fight for themselves, and apathetic people don't care, so any one who "meddles" should be welcomed because they may rise issues we are nor aware of or care about. We cannot differentiate when it comes to environment.


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## gemini90 (Jun 5, 2015)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] So it is with every developing country, and to some extent with developed ones.And i agree that the indian penal code needs a revisiting. So do our own work and strengthen them up instead of inviting outsiders to come and judge us and our efforts. Does history not have enough lessons in this regard?

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Russian deal failed? The plant is already operating at full strength after the gov refused to back down before the opposition.

And it is give and take. We don't have enough resources to tackle the development and environment threads differently.

And is NGT not an eg of strengthning our legal framework?


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## Akashay (Jun 5, 2015)

One must remember that this tiny little tittle Earth has to fulfill the ambition of over 7 billion dreams.  This should be “one world one fight” and not “your problem you fight”.  The Western countries started the global warming to secure their dreams now in 21th century Asian countries are also doing the same.  The only difference now is that we have resource and capability to cut out the emissions and harmful gases ( though those techs are expensive). What the developed country must understand that they need to demonstrate leadership qualities and help their rising brother to achieve their ambition by transfer of tools and technology (we still secure our most of the energy needs via coal if something better exists why not use it).


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## gemini90 (Jun 7, 2015)

Why India is captured by carbon | David Rose | News | The Guardian



> Meanwhile, the government has just introduced new pollution standards for coal plant technology – as strict as any in the world. “You will no longer be able to burn coal cheaply and pollute,” said Bushan. Under these rules, old plants such as Shaktinagar and Anpara A will have to be scrapped.
> 
> Bushan warned that better regulations would not necessarily be enforced. “The arm of the law is not always long in India. But there are certain trends that are positive. I am impressed quite frankly with the Modi government on these issues. They’ve done more than I expected.”


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