# one license, DRM scheme to rule them all



## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

* EU: one license, DRM scheme to rule them all*

By Nate Anderson 				         | Published: January 03, 2008 - 02:05PM CT 



 				             				         							 							 Companies that want to sell online content in the European Union know that the common market doesn't apply to everything; selling digital music or offering movie downloads in Europe means negotiating separate licensing agreements in different countries and launching multiple storefronts. Today, the European Commission announced a plan to create a single, European-wide market for online music, films, and video games. It's even pushing for content owners to get their collective act together and produce a truly interoperable, consumer-friendly DRM system. 



 EU Commissioner Viviane Reding announced the plan today with a statement saying that "Europe's content sector is suffering under its regulatory fragmentation, under its lack of clear, consumer-friendly rules for accessing copyright-protected online content, and serious disagreements between stakeholders about fundamental issues such as levies and private copying." The way forward, she said, is clear. "Do we want to have a strong music, film, and games industry?" 
 The answer, of course, is a resounding "Yes! Oui! Ja!" The Commission plans to adopt a "Recommendation" by the middle of 2008 that it will use to encourage content owners, ISPs, and consumer groups to make progress in these areas. The Commission already knows that it wants to see more content made available online, and today said that it is "strongly encouraging stakeholders" to streamline negotiations over rights. 
  The Commission also wants to see rights licensed on a multi-territory basis, rather than country-by-country. Without such multistate licenses, it can be "difficult for online services to be deployed across Europe and to benefit from economies of scale." Negotiating rights to sell digital music, for instance, can be thorny enough in just one country, but when you multiply the problem by five, ten, or twenty countries, the history, laws, and language issues make it truly daunting. Being able to purchase EU-wide licenses for songs would make opening such stores far simpler, and it would be more likely that smaller markets would have access to such stores. 



 DRM, where it is used, also needs to remain transparent to consumers, a goal which includes interoperability. The Commission notes that "lengthy discussions amongst stakeholders have yet to lead to the deployment of interoperable and user-friendly DRM solutions." This is an early candidate for understatement of the year, and European countries have long shown themselves more interested, at a national level, in the issue of DRM and its problems than the US government ever has. Still, it's hard to see much coming from this; the private sector has had incentives to get this done for years and has so far failed.  



 Finally, the Commission plans to lay out "cooperation procedures" between ISPs, content owners, and consumers. The goal is to create "codes of conduct" for each party that will curtail piracy but also make available more "attractive content online." 



 The language of the announcement talks repeatedly about "encouragement" and "recommendations," but the Commission seems to be making an implicit promise to regulate in these areas if more is not done over the next few years by the private sector. Serious money is at stake as online content sales blossom in Europe; according to the Commission's own projections, revenues from online content sales will surge from €1.8 billion in 2005 to €8.3 billion in 2010. 



*arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080103-eu-one-license-drm-scheme-to-rule-them-all.html


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM isn't bad if properly implemented


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## gary4gar (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM sucks big time:devil:


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 4, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> DRM isn't bad if properly implemented


DRM in its current form is bad in every way!


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## Pathik (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM will affect the original_stuff users more than the pirated_stuff users in a negative way..
That's why it sucks.


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## goobimama (Jan 4, 2008)

If the companies implement DRM in such a way, that the customers actually benefit from DRM than not having it, while the pirates suffer, then it will be a good thing. I have no clue as to how this could be done, but I'm sure the brains at these companies can figure out something...

Till then, I will leave my opinion of DRM in Praka's hands...


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## Pathik (Jan 4, 2008)

Yea. Praka is our frontrunner in the war against DRM.


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## RCuber (Jan 4, 2008)

How many here have actually used DRM content? I have and I have been using it for atleast a year.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

and how irritating or how infringing is it on u 

and if im no wrong jeshtha cant use drm files coz he is on linux which doesnt play drm content  maybe im wrong (not sure)


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## RCuber (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> and how irritating or how infringing is it on u
> 
> and if im no wrong jeshtha cant use drm files coz he is on linux which doesnt play drm content  maybe im wrong (not sure)



No problem till now on windows .. I cant listen to the music or watch videos in Linux ( DRM Music/Videos )


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM just sucks, in every form till now, and we can't see a good future for it. Its just that pricing is never right. DRMed AAC Music at 128 kbps from apple costs just a tad less(or even more) than an original lossless CD print of the same. AND we don't get to use them properly. Whats the point of such DRMs?


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## naveen_reloaded (Jan 4, 2008)

Drm sucks


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

ok so i was right jeshtha hating drm has got to do a lot with linux's inability to play drm  (whether 1 agrees or dis-agrees i give a damn)

drm as i have said earlier is something that makes piracy difficult as in if ur playing a drm protected video for instance it will make sure that u cannot record that video using some screen rec. software as it disables that feature some how for the video card being used 

another thing is that drm protected content also requires drm certified hardware which means that again piracy is restricted .... so the idea is good implementation requires some work to be done so that it is accepted by users

also this means that 1 will need to buy original cds/dvds .... a lot of times i find it difficult to say no to my friends who come over and want me to rip them my purchased movies or songs this gives u a reason to decline

also drm protected dvds come with converted formats also for pmps though it is not upto the mark as in the converted files play on a limited no. of devices but the point is the steps are being taken to ensure the consumer does not suffer


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## nvidia (Jan 4, 2008)

naveen_reloaded said:


> Drm sucks


+1


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM Sucks!no other reasons!no persuasion damn EU and their media's.DRM is founded and sponsored by evil minds!I support pirates rather than DRMing whole software and hardware!


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## x3060 (Jan 4, 2008)

damn, dont these guys ever stop it...


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## Batistabomb (Jan 4, 2008)

Damn, they won't stop ?


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

Now may be we will see in future that those without $$$ will be going back ages like may be Flint stones  thanks to monopoly devils!


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> Now may be we will see in future that those without $$$ will be going back ages like may be Flint stones


 to be corrected as:

Now may be we will see in future that those without Windows or OS X will be going back ages like may be Flint stones  switch jeshtha switch ... dont worry we will help u with ur queries and doubts about vista .... swtich my friend switch


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

^imeow working with his power of making FUD like the owner(M$),JFYI,I have never tried HD videos and am least interested to!.and imeow u better join FOSS community as u can be used as a blind advocate!  
For Me,Linux and Open Source is the way!No to DRM,monopolies(M$FT esp!) software patents all needs to be eliminated!


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## Faun (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> to be corrected as:
> 
> Now may be we will see in future that those without Windows or OS X will be going back ages like may be Flint stones  switch jeshtha switch ... dont worry we will help u with ur queries and doubts about vista .... swtich my friend switch


lol..the world is all for open source, free mind.

No question about switching to a restricted confined place


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

1st) DRM doesn't affect u unless u play DRMed content. The services in Windows Vista for DRM do not start unless the content is DRMed (files has DRM flag).

2nd) DRM content drivers do not load in Vista unless the content asks for it. 

So, yes...there is a check for DRM in the background of Vista, but that doesn't hampers the performance 50% like some ignorant users claim it does.

Beside, why does DRM bother u? R U forced to use DRM content in India?


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

jeshtha drm is proposed by and endorsed by almost every hardware and software company the 1s who dont will also join soon

can u or FOSS come up with a better solution for avoiding piracy as drm is a strong mechanism in concept and is proving to be so practically too as my previous post i have cited how it helps in reducing piracy and at the same time finding ways to not affecting consumers that is what drm is meant for


also something i missed last time .... drm content gives the consumer permission to convert or transfer the drm protected content a limited no. of times (depends on the provider) adding that too the availability of pre-converted pmp formats i find no reason why drm should be a problem to the 1s who buy and use original media .... as charan has already said he is using drm content and has no problem other than linux not being able to play it


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:
			
		

> I have never tried HD videos and am least interested to


 
Then why do u want us not to try it either?



> can u or FOSS come up with a better solution for avoiding piracy


 
That's a worthwhile Question. if u don't know how to stop piracy then stop blaming DRM & don't buy DRMed content. Nobody is forcing


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

and also 1 scheme that is only drm is good because then u wont have different standards/methods of encrypting data ... 1 scheme works thruoghout eurpe and maybe throughout the world .... makes sense for a consumer who buys original uses original


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## Faun (Jan 4, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Then why do u want us not to try it either?
> 
> 
> 
> That's a worthwhile Question. if u don't know how to stop piracy then stop blaming DRM & don't buy DRMed content. Nobody is forcing


may DRM endure the Starforce fate 

Btw nothing can stop piracy, only we can.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

stopping and avoiding are 2 different things ...not being able to stop terrorism doesnt mean u stop probing it or stop funding anti-terrorism mechanism .... drm is an attempt at reducing piracy bringing all media and tech companies together to wrok and help each other making things work better for the consumer


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> DRM Sucks!no other reasons!no persuasion damn EU and their media's.DRM is founded and sponsored by evil minds*!I support pirates rather than DRMing whole software and hardware!*


^that answers the obvious questions by the monopoly supporters!@imeow and gx-sourav

the thing is,at any cost no DRMing of h/w and s/w!
I'd like to ask u monopolists 1 Que:So,you brought a plot in Delhi City Centre.Do you allow someone to own it overpowering you!(remember khosla ka Ghosla  )
the same goes here as the users right to use their hardware and software which they bought unrestricted!piracy is 2nd to locking of users rights by Monopoly lobbyists of big corporations like M$FT.
In no way,does we have to agree to that "fair user" crap set up by these morons in US!


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:
			
		

> ^that answers the obvious questions by the monopoly supporters!@imeow and gx-sourav


 
Menas u support & favor stealing the hard work of Music studios & actors rather then paying what they deserve


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> the same goes here as the users right to use their hardware and software which they bought unrestricted!piracy is 2nd to locking of users rights by Monopoly lobbyists of big corporations like M$FT.


  and im rather surprised by ur blatant acceptance of piracy when it comes to media


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

^I DONT MIND!GET IT!MANY OTHERS TOO!  
For me,I dont want to see the whole world been under Monopolists corporations and esp the movies/music industry along with softwares!OMG!2000 has brought up evil monopolists to do *any* thing they want to do on users!I can not allow my Operating system to control my aptitude of what i have to play or not!who the fcuk is they to control me?the fcuking EULA is not at all read by any!they just accept and this morons in US&EU loots on and on.today or tomorrow,same fate will be there in India too!the democratic country!I feel ashamed to see that there are people who are advocating for such companies!
Piracy has to be dealt by direct human interaction with end user!no,it is not the job of rootkits(DRM) to control what we have to do or not  

so at  the end,whatever you buy,you get it,no hidden strings attached!(software/hardware).
with both processor companies going to have rootkits in their processors embedded!I felt that rather we have to stop buying from this thugs!


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:
			
		

> I can not allow my Operating system to control my aptitude of what i have to play or not!who the fcuk is they to control me?


 
Which OS out there restricts u from playing a media file? Isn't that Linux itself? In Vista I can play DRMed & non-DRM files both. But not in Linux.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> I can not allow my Operating system to control my aptitude of what i have to play or not!who the fcuk is they to control me?


 no 1 is controling what u play u can play what ever u want to as long as u pay for it and have not procured it by wrong means 


praka123 said:


> Piracy has to be dealt by direct human interaction with end user!no,it is not the job of rootkits(DRM) to control what we have to do or not


 ya rite drunk driving; women molestation needs to be dealt with human interaction and not by polic putting u in jail  talk practicality sir 


praka123 said:


> so at  the end,whatever you buy,you get it,no hidden strings attached!(software/hardware).
> with both processor companies going to have rootkits in their processors embedded!I felt that rather we have to stop buying from this thugs!


 please dont buy intel or amd processors  and as i have said ur darling FOSS not being able to play drmed content is a reason why u hate it .... 

i urge every1 to please read my previous posts in this thread about drm which will shed more light abt what drm is and is trying to achieve so far we have only been brain washed by jeshtha that drm is bad but that is not te case it is a step being taken for a reasonable cause however haveing said that drm still needs to improve upon itself in implementation on the larger scale


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

We know DRM is bad, but unless someone can come up with a better method of controlling piracy, live with DRM. The best you can do is not to buy DRM content, & not to pirate.


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

imeowoh said:
			
		

> no 1 is controling what u play u can play what ever u want to as long as u pay for it and have not procured it by wrong means


then what are we discussing?DRM is CONTROLLING THE SAME!

personally,will keep off from drmed movies,softwares(Vista!!!!) as much i can!



			
				imeowoh said:
			
		

> ya rite drunk driving; women molestation needs to be dealt with human interaction and not by polic putting u in jail  talk practicality sir


just remembering the raids conducted by police and microsoft in TVM.just follow that!Now am expecting u to say that chalo DRM radio mirchi transmission  



> please dont buy intel or amd processors


Yes Anuja,I am! 



			
				gx_sourav said:
			
		

> We know DRM is bad, but unless someone can come up with a better method of controlling piracy, live with DRM. The best you can do is not to buy DRM content, & not to pirate.


Ahaa!you know DRM is bad!welcome ! 
to curb priacy,studios et al have to try what moser baer in India does!make things cheap!damn cheap,volume selling=ur revenue is multiplied with what u have.this is also reg microsoft windows too!


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> then what are we discussing?DRM is CONTROLLING THE SAME!


 yes drm is controlling that u cannot pirate or play pirated content on ur computers


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

^so!?eat DRM!u xxxx


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## gxsaurav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> ^so!?eat DRM!u xxxx


 

Means u support piracy...lolz


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> to curb priacy,studios et al have to try what moser baer in India does!make things cheap!damn cheap,volume selling=ur revenue is multiplied


 moser baer has made them cheap but my friend piracy still rules and it will as long as some methods to reduce and curb it are not taken

also making something cheap is not the solution ... the amount of money a music company puts in advertising; recording and campaigning for a record the number of musicians and technicians who record and work on a record who is going to pay them ....

if u think that in a song theres only 1 singer and the recording label then ur wrong there are so many other background artists working - the artwork of the video; the artwork of the cds/dvds; the backgroound singers; the background musicians; the other vocal artists; the technicians working behind the scenes editing the record who is going to pay them .... who is going to pay for their families' livelihood - their job is going to pay - the company who employees them is going to pay - the consumer who buys their hard work has to pay for it


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## praka123 (Jan 4, 2008)

means i support freedom!and I definitely am against piracy.but when freedom is conflicting with piracy(anti-piracy enforcements like DRM),anytime i prefer my freedom!easy!


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

what is ur freedom ... does ur freedom mean that the people who tirelessly work to make a movie look as it does or the people who tirelessly work to make a record sound like it does .... they should have their work ripped and distributed around the net for free  when u buy a record the money goes to the recording label who pays their staff the same people who work behind the scenes to make the product look and sound the way it does

ur freedom and the hard work of some 1 and his families' livelihood - i choose the latter ....


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## axxo (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> what is ur freedom ... does ur freedom mean that the people who tirelessly work to make a movie look as it does or the people who tirelessly work to make a record sound like it does .... they should have their work ripped and distributed around the net for free  when u buy a record the money goes to the recording label who pays their staff the same people who work behind the scenes to make the product look and sound the way it does
> 
> ur freedom and the hard work of some 1 and his families' livelihood - i choose the latter ....



MS is poor....let them live


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## RCuber (Jan 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> *I support pirates *rather than DRMing whole software and hardware!



What ever little respect you had from me is gone now. *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/19a.gif

You say that the artist who create music and movies from hardwork should not get their pay?

If you unconfortable with DRM Music/Movies which are bought online or if your OS is incapable of playing DRM Music, then just go and buy the Audio CD or DVD. Then you can rip it and play where ever you want. be it you MP3 Player of any other PMP. 

I would rather go and pay for a CD/DVD  rather than buying DRM Music or getting a pirated copy .


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

ms is not the only corp that is endorsing drm, get ur facts right then come to talk ... drm is endorsed by almost every major tech/media company and .....

drm was started more than 10 years ago by sony corp. and not MS


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## Faun (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> stopping and avoiding are 2 different things ...not being able to stop terrorism doesnt mean u stop probing it or stop funding anti-terrorism mechanism .... drm is an attempt at reducing piracy bringing all media and tech companies together to wrok and help each other making things work better for the consumer


and that means u can be shoot at sight, curfews at will, jail without any reason, and total monopoly of government. 
Try to gather how many innocent people suffered while avoiding this sos called terrorism undercover operations.

What Starforce bring was the hardware failure, user inconvenience and hidden driver installations.

Provide funding for WHO and UNESCO its much better to nurture life than shitty plans of curbing terror.


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## axxo (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> ms is not the only corp that is endorsing drm, get ur facts right then come to talk ... drm is endorsed by almost every *major tech/media company* and .....
> 
> drm was started more than 10 years ago by sony corp. and not MS



I know dude...the companies using as of now aren't under $...


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## Faun (Jan 4, 2008)

iMav said:


> ms is not the only corp that is endorsing drm, get ur facts right then come to talk ... drm is endorsed by almost every major tech/media company and .....
> 
> drm was started more than 10 years ago by sony corp. and not MS


and it do backed of for a while.
MS resurrected it again


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM sucks.And whoever thinks it actually helps stopping piracy is a big-big fool.There are thousands of ways of getting rid of DRM protections off media.And believe there will always be ways of doing it,no matter how advanced DRM becomes.


I agree with gx and imav that drm can be used to prevent piracy and ,according to charan, help put money in the pocket of artists(or recording companies should I say,artists hate drm as much as we do) but first *perfect this and then implement it,we don't want half-baked sh!t.*drm,as of now is outright stupid as clear from:

Some facts:
1.Songs bought from apple stores can be transferred to as many pods as you like and listened but can't be used on more than 5 pcs(correct me if I am wrong).Its like "hey bring over your ipod and i'll give you my full music collection.And no its not illegeal,its perfectly legal."

2.Real media player producers tried to implement their own drm thingy on songs,apple 'disabled' their drm in their next firmware,real again improved and implemented,apple 'disabled' it again,then real stopped trying.

3.Wow,Now comes my famous part.M$ and Zune.If I transfer songs from my Zune to my friends,it remains playable only for 3 days\3 times.But hey don't worry I got ways to bypass it:
 (i.)Easiest of them all is set genre of songs to be transferred to 'podcasts' and voila! all 'podcasts' gets transferred without drm.Ha stupid of M$.
 (j.)Still haven't upgraded to 'podcasted' firmwares? Just rename the .mp3 files to .jpg before transferring them to Zune.transfer them to another zune via wifi anndask your friends to rename them back to .mp3.
 (k.)don't have much time?Just download one of many drm stripping softies off net.


it clearly indicates the state of drm now,rival companies wouldn't let you play contents bought from another company.Oh hell M$ is the worst of them all,Zunes palys drmed music bought from zune marketplace,it refuses to play 'playforsure' songs which was\is from M$ itself.And somebody tell me who suffers?


the idela solution would be just forget drm sh!t and continue our good old ways.OR all major players should come out with a single standard drm thingy and terms of usage which are not stupid which isn't likely to happen IMO.


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## Voldy (Jan 4, 2008)

DRM s**ks


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> the idela solution would be just forget drm sh!t and continue our good old ways.OR all major players should come out with a single standard drm thingy and terms of usage which are not stupid which isn't likely to happen IMO.


 anything new which is being tried by various comapnies will have some problems as u pointed out but that doesnt mean the idea is flawed or the concept is flawed its just the implementation- which im saying for quite some time the implementation needs to be worked in a way that does not affect consumers who buy original ... and ur suggested solution is what i think EU is trying to do 

and as far as apple's idea its more liek they know that 70% of ipod users know that they cant transfer songs from the pods to the pc so their idea actually works ... and 5 pcs or whatever is for the user to take the song to his home pc; laptop or for backup ... again the idea is to reduce the piracy ... now if they allow u to put the song on any number of pcs .... only 1 person will buy rest will share but in this case either u need to have an ipod and know that u can transfer songs from ipod to pc or have an ipod and know a foll who will keep on giving u his dwnldd songs or be such good frenz with him that he allows ur pc to be 1 of the 5 

MS - well they are still finding ground with zune their market place is nascent and zune is still to become the xbox of the music industry

conclusion: concept is good implementation needs improvement


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 4, 2008)

^^perfect it before you use it,stop making guinea pigs out of genuine buyers.Any unified steps are more than welcome.Games companies have been using various protections to avoid piracy(and spending millions) but tell me has it stopped or say even lowered the rate of piracy?

its so stupid that I wonder how these big-wig companies manage to go along with it.monopoly sucks.


And who said piracy is all that bad?If I don't have money to buy original stuff than I don't have the right to listen to quality music I like?
There is not black and white fields in it,all things are greyed out without any clear lines.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> ^^perfect it before you use it,stop making guinea pigs out of genuine buyers.


 its not about perfecting something for them they have to release it first and see how it works in the masses ... drm has been in works for the past 12 years and only now got the attention so there will be improvement; there are sp1s firmware upgrades so cant a technology be adapted and improved with time ....

and devil ur talking as if drm content is all around u  dont exaggerate it so much


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## The_Devil_Himself (Jan 4, 2008)

^^
1.yea you are right its been there for 12 years and still it is so raw and stupid.

2.Its pretty much around us if you see closely albeit in slightly different forms.regioned DVDs,securomed games(securom drivers were declared spywares iirc),et al.And it is increasing at a rapid rate thanks to all the backings it is getting.

I wonder why you made that second statement,it shows you too don't like it much.who can like it anyway?

Its not like "hey I can get this for free,why should I pay then?".People do like to pay including me.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

but the thing is if ur buying original how is it affecting u  its not to an extent which has has so far been depicted by jeshtha ... he has calmlyignored the repercussions of piracy to the people making the music....

and yes artists dont mind it simply because they are paid by sponsors; event managements and recording labels where as the secondary artists the 1s whose foto is not printed on the cover or the 1s who are not featured in videos they are the 1s who are worst hit due to piracy ... the companies will cut their cost their artists cost and then pay them

games u buy original play it how does it affect u 

buy original dvds/drm protected content play it on Vista (yes vista vista ... switch to vista if ur using OSS) or play it on OS X it wont affect u .... it will only make sure that ur not generously distributing their content without them getting a share

PS: we are on the same page in this case and my post says u but is not specifically to u


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## goobimama (Jan 4, 2008)

First of all, companies need to revise their pricing strategy when it comes to third world nations. Take for instance, books. A book in the UK will cost 20 pounds, but the same one will be available here for somewhere like 150 bucks (original). So there is little demand for pirated books. Now soft media is easier to deploy than hard copies such as books. All they have to do is reduce the prices for the third world nations and people will definitely look into buying software. 

A subway train ticket will cost 4 pounds in the UK while a song will cost 80 cents. In India a train ticket will cost 12 bucks but a song will cost 50 bucks (if the cost of a 400 rupee CD is divided into 8 songs). 

Now DRMing the content isn't going to help in any way. A pirate will download a song from a torrent network which will definitely be free of any content protection. Ethically wrong, but he won't suffer. On the other hand, a proper customer who buys a song from say iTunes store cannot play it on his chinese branded MP3 player or take it along with him on his linux laptop. Who suffers here?

@iMav: What of HD DVDs and Bluray? People need to get HDCP enabled displays just to play those discs. You can't (without much trouble) make copies to store on your hard drive. You are forced to watch previews, ads about piracy and other whatnot before getting to the movie.


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## iMav (Jan 4, 2008)

o cmon goobi dude ... hdcp and hd dvds/blu rays are a new tech they need compliant hardware

last time i checked there was a fast forward button on the remote (i wonder whether ur apple remote has 1 or jobs ate it ) ok jokes apart are u advocating piracy by saying that by buying a song via itunes a consumer suffers and thereby should turn to piracy to play his media on linux .... holy sh!t .... linux promotes piracy


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav said:


> o cmon goobi dude ... hdcp and hd dvds/blu rays are a new tech they need compliant hardware
> 
> last time i checked there was a fast forward button on the remote (i wonder whether ur apple remote has 1 or jobs ate it ) ok jokes apart are u advocating piracy by saying that by buying a song via itunes a consumer suffers and thereby should turn to piracy to play his media on linux .... holy sh!t .... linux promotes piracy


No, haf a regional pricing as Milind suggested. Activation/DRM/Keys/Serial No. nothing will help..... I can say this again.. and again.. and again... and prolly a thousand more times!

Someone is convicted of rape, he's awarded punishment; does that mean the end of rapes in the country? Does that mean the future generation will not know the meaning of rape. Will the punishment guarantee that the right person is convicted????

What will help? Liberalization, tolerance, EDUCATION! Why are instances of sexual harassment greater in this country and others where the society is not so liberal? LACK OF EDUCATION!

Similarly, piracy can be eradicated only if the users chose to do so and proper pricing will help in that. After MoserBaer launched the low-cost DVD/CD you would agree that the sales figures are rising.... this is something to be proud of! When you get the original stuff for under Rs.100 why would anyone pay 60-70 for the pirated one? The casing, the original seal.. believe me.. no one would like to flaunt the pirated CD/DVDs anywhere; whereas people make attempts to get noticed for genuine stuff. Ask a person who has bought windows and has the seal and the original CD!!!!

If DRM is implemented on hardware, there is no doubt on the fact that it'll be cracked; mebbe just in a few dayz. All the time and money spent go down the drain... pirates apply that patch/crack and enjoy the "de-DRM'd" content. While whats the negative impact? Genuine users will stop buying DRM'd content, coz they can't take that DRM song with them on their 3rd Party PMP when on move. The genuine users will actually then download the crack... so the industry actually loses!

THE SOLUTION TO STOP PIRACY IS EDUCATION AND REASONABLE PRICES. THERE ARE NO OTHER WAYS TO ERADICATE PIRACY. NO DRM/KEYS/ACTIVATION WILL STOP PIRACY. ITS JUST A WASTE OF RESOURCES FOR THE COMPANY IMPLEMENTING IT AND A PITA FOR THE GENUINE USER!


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## praka123 (Jan 5, 2008)

^thx for that!as that's what am trying to say!but 2 m@r@ns made me pushed to choose my side with whether am with DRMing or Piracy and i said piracy  so much to believe!i am,never want to be a pirate and knows how ppl suffer from high costs of softwares,music and even a foreign edition book  as far as software are concerned Linux and FOSS is both a cash saver for 3rd world and also a superior platform as also FOSS movement which is awakening of community!i am still wondering how ppl like @imeow will buy a plot  if someone encroaches and put a dhaba there,he will be more happy! am trying the anomaly to say how the movies,softwares etc containing DRM rootkits WITHOUT our permission although we BUYS it!.said WITHOUT because most people dont care for EULA or dont know what DRM is!


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## iMav (Jan 5, 2008)

@infra: uv missed the previous few pages of the discussion most of what uv pointed out has been adequately and properly replied previously 

and ur point of education has been explained with an apt example please go thru the thread and ur time/money down the drain is also explained via an example


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## goobimama (Jan 5, 2008)

> o cmon goobi dude ... hdcp and hd dvds/blu rays are a new tech they need compliant hardware
> 
> last time i checked there was a fast forward button on the remote (i wonder whether ur apple remote has 1 or jobs ate it ) ok jokes apart are u advocating piracy by saying that by buying a song via itunes a consumer suffers and thereby should turn to piracy to play his media on linux .... holy sh!t .... linux promotes piracy


Well who suffers in the case of HDCP? the pirates have already cracked the protection and are happily downloading the movies. Genuine users on the other hand are forced into upgrading to compliant hardware and software. 

And you can't fast forward ads and promos on a DVD and I assume a HD disc.

But there is one thing that is worse than DRM. It's these ugly ads on TDF!


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## iMav (Jan 5, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Well who suffers in the case of HDCP? the pirates have already cracked the protection and are happily downloading the movies. Genuine users on the other hand are forced into upgrading to compliant hardware and software.


 would u choose to use OS X on pc or mac 


goobimama said:


> And you can't fast forward ads and promos on a DVD and I assume a HD disc.


 is it? i thought this wasnt implemented as of yet ... this part i hate


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav said:


> @infra: uv missed the previous few pages of the discussion most of what uv pointed out has been adequately and properly replied previously
> 
> and ur point of education has been explained with an apt example please go thru the thread and ur time/money down the drain is also explained via an example


I do not see any explanation. All you guys seem to be saying is that DRM is needed to prevent piracy and pay back the artist. I'm saying nothing will help except low-regionwise pricing and education.

Plz point me answers to the issues I've raised which, in your own words, _haf been adequately and properly replied previously._


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## iMav (Jan 5, 2008)

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=710486&postcount=28

second quote here:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=710517&postcount=34

lasr para here:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=710541&postcount=40

low ppricing who is going to pay the the people who fotos are not printed on the cover or the 1s who are not featured in the video a song is not just a singer and the recording company

education yes we are all being educated that drunk driving is risky and women should be respected 

just because osama will still be successful in blasting a place or killing some 1 does nt mean that all anti-terrorsit measures be stopped and we sit hand on hand and say that ots a waste pf resources


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav said:


> stopping and avoiding are 2 different things ...not being able to stop terrorism doesnt mean u stop probing it or stop funding anti-terrorism mechanism .... drm is an attempt at reducing piracy bringing all media and tech companies together to wrok and help each other making things *work better for the consumer*


Yes, bring out the product when it actually *works! *Forget about even _working better!_



iMav said:


> ya rite drunk driving; women molestation needs to be dealt with human interaction and not by polic putting u in jail  talk practicality sir


Yes, jailing/fining are only temporary solutions!! People still evade the police, get bails, pay fines. So does this stop them from committing the crime? As per your saying DRM is the only way to stop piracy. I still say to eradicate piracy (and also molestation, drunk driving et. al which you've mentioned) a permanent solution is education and only education which helps in valuing the individual's hard work.



iMav said:


> also making something cheap is not the solution ... the amount of money a music company puts in advertising; recording and campaigning for a record the number of musicians and technicians who record and work on a record who is going to pay them ....


So what are the companies trying to do? Recover the cost lost by piracy from genuine users by keeping the price high???? Thats what is happening...

Think about it, if a commodity is priced at Rs.1000; one user has a genuine one, 99 pirate at Rs.70. Same commodity is priced at Rs.100. That one genuine user still remains, yet the probability of those 99 pirates buying genuine stuff is much much higher. Then those 99 "ex-pirates" recommend other 99 people to buy. So who's benefited in the end? The company. These are Management lessons. Anyways... beyond the scope of this discussion. 



iMav said:


> low ppricing who is going to pay the the people who fotos are not printed on the cover or the 1s who are not featured in the video a song is not just a singer and the recording company


Guess this has been adequately answered above. Low pricing will increase sales and generate same or more revenue.



iMav said:


> education yes we are all being educated that drunk driving is risky and women should be respected


Then why is the (Rape)/(No. of males) ratio greater in India than US? They are more open-minded and educated in this respect. What we haf in our country is superficial respect.

The same fellow who will advocate Rights and respect to the female gender will go an molest a woman given a chance. It is analogous to those arguing here FOR DRM listening to _illegally downloaded songs of Taare Zameen Par  _in the background while typing their posts!!!! I'm not pointing at anyone but giving an example what mostly happens here.



iMav said:


> just because osama will still be successful in blasting a place or killing some 1 does nt mean that all anti-terrorsit measures be stopped and we sit hand on hand and say that ots a waste pf resources


What? Not implementing DRM would help Osama kill someone??? Dude when comparing things make some logical comparison.

Secondly, just coz they need to stop Osama doesn't mean that they kill innocents for it (akin to troubling genuine users in the name of anti-piracy).

I'm not saying artists shouldn't be getting their share of money. All I am saying is that the value of money is different in different countries. Hence it should be priced accordingly.


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## goobimama (Jan 5, 2008)

Lastly, don't believe everything the US government tells you. Osama might as well be a fictional figure which they put to cover up themselves bombing the twin towers...


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## iMav (Jan 5, 2008)

1. pricing should be different: 300 for a record it cheap IMHO considering the fact these recording studios employee so much technically skilled larbor and use top of the line equipment - a bloody rec. mic costs 1.5 lac and just tap the mic twice wen its on kaboom ... 1.5 lac gone not to mention the softwares and the computers

2. and we all education is the solution but talk practically dude talk praticality  what is happening talk about what is happening 

we are being educated but still u cna see the news whats happening 0 y not stop arresting them and start education channels telling people that they shud respect women and shud drink and drive

3. and the comparison is absolutely simple which u understood 

no is killing any1 in the name of anti-piracy . . ppl pay the price and are pretty happy with it .... no 1 is complaining abt the current prices of cds and music *the whole anti-drm campaign is not based on high prices but the restrictions it levies on users - restrictions that act as deterrent to piracy* and make sure people pay for what they enjoy while typing their posts... we all want cheap stuff well thats us - apes cant do anything abt it can we

also u keep saying this educate thing - implement drm and then keep educating people not to turn to piracy or pirate drm content


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav said:


> 1. pricing should be different: 300 for a record it cheap IMHO considering the fact these recording studios employee so much technically skilled larbor and use top of the line equipment - a bloody rec. mic costs 1.5 lac and just tap the mic twice wen its on kaboom ... 1.5 lac gone not to mention the softwares and the computers


You don't get the point here.



iMav said:


> 2. and we all education is the solution but talk practically dude talk praticality  what is happening talk about what is happening


Exactly, I'm talking about what is happening. Inspite of punishment the crime rate is high. I'm saying punishment is only a temporary solution.



iMav said:


> start education channels telling people that they shud respect women and shud drink and drive


That will actually help. The proposal to include gory images on cigarette packs was dropped only coz it'd hurt the cigarette manufacturing companies as it would surely make some difference, mebbe minuscule now, to smoking. But thats all not related to this discussion. My point is Education in some way or the other helps.



iMav said:


> no 1 is complaining abt the current prices of cds and music *the whole anti-drm campaign is not based on high prices but the restrictions it levies on users - restrictions that act as deterrent to piracy*


I'm not talking about the anti-drm campaign. I'm talking about a way to remove the need of DRM and hence anti-drm. Na rahega baans, na bajegi baansuri!



iMav said:


> we all want cheap stuff well thats us - apes cant do anything abt it can we


We don't want cheap stuff. We want stuff reasonably priced which would help companies generate revenues. Consider the example of the 99 pirates I gave above. In addition to that the company saves huge amount and also labour which it'd hafta otherwise spend on implementing DRM technology and/or paying royalty for the DRM algo.



iMav said:


> also u keep saying this educate thing - implement drm and then keep educating people not to turn to piracy or pirate drm content


If education and price aspects are taken into consideration then there is no need to "educate people to NOT to pirate DRM content"!!!


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## goobimama (Jan 5, 2008)

I watched a video on what happens when you don't wear a seat belt. It triggered something in me and now I always wear a seat belt while driving. On the other hand, for years before that, even though the cops levied a fine for those not wearing a seat belt, I never once bothered. 

There are stories of cops in Somedabad where instead of fining those not wearing helmets, they pleading them to wear helmets and showed them pictures of what happens when you don't wear them.


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## kalpik (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav: Just look here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77302

So common sense is gradually coming to at least some companies! That's what anirudh was trying to say all this time.


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## gary4gar (Jan 5, 2008)

^^^
simple!
so cheap is the original stuff than you will buy the pirated content, no need to invest millions of dollars in making stupid & unfriendly technologies like DRM & then recover cost incurred from consumers.

why shall consumers pay for your sins?

Its doing bad and rather than doing any good, as people say by paying money you get a product with various conditions and long EULAs. whereas you can get  product from pirated market with any restrictions over it, so whats the charm of paying extra amount & suffering over it.better paying less & enjoy more, mostly people do the second thing(pay less & enjoy more). its a basic human nature


people in media industry are sitting on huge profits & still cry piracy
hypocrites!
tell them to reduce prices & then "Economies of scale" will do its magic

check this site:*www.moserbaerhomevideo.com
most title are available for price equal to pirated markets, so people are buying it


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## praka123 (Jan 5, 2008)

^even sony is removing DRM's in their DVD sales as per news.


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## iMav (Jan 5, 2008)

things cant be made cheap there is a threshold beyond which 1 cant reduce the prices .... companies are not charity organisations that they will keep selling u stuff at break even margins ..... and anirudh if u think that making cheap is the solution are the freakin companies so f*cking dumb that they cant think of that .... 

things cant be made cheap and expect volumes to increase .... no matter what nothing is cheaper than free ..... u guys keep saying make it cheap make it cheap im trying to tell u a simple thing that it is not feasible for all major companies to make stuff cheap because they have to make profits and at the same time pay so many employees

drm is a deterrent a method to reduce piracy by making it complicated for people 

moserbaer is only selling movies its not a production house neither is it a recording label guys please try and understand .... where are the recording companies supposed to make money from ..... u cant sell something cheaper than a particular limit and none of us know how moserbaer works as in how have they worked this out or what are their profit margins

marketing and pricing are the biggest factors for any business and a lot of thinking goes into it 

and anirudh please dont try to compare ur knowledge of marketing and management with that of the likes of recording companies and production houses around the world  which company wants to sell less of its products (except luxury items)


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 5, 2008)

iMav said:


> things cant be made cheap there is a t
> hreshold beyond which 1 cant reduce the prices .... companies are not charity organisations that they will keep selling u stuff at break even margins ..... and anirudh if u think that making cheap is the solution are the freakin companies so f*cking dumb that they cant think of that ....


^^^ Ok sir, I bow down and out. No point in arguing. You argue as if you own the recording studios and are incurring huge losses due to MoserBaer selling at low prices and that every piece in your computer (from software to songs/videos/movies etc.) have been bought by you and never pirated!!!! 



iMav said:


> things cant be made cheap and expect volumes to increase ....


First thing is you need to go out in the market and haf a look at the sales! Sitting in front of the computer and making comments will not give you any idea about the sales of such items.



iMav said:


> no matter what nothing is cheaper than free .....


Does that mean that you look upto the sky and say: Oh God plz gimme Jab We Met DVD and pop! A DL-DVD is dropped in your hands? Wake up. Nothing is free! You are spending on electricity and time to download that 8GB movie off the net; waking up at 2AM for the free hours to start, then buy a DL-DVD and burn it; or you are spending time to first crack DRM, then rip it and burn it on a DL-DVD for your friend!!! Companies need to highlight such things which show that nothing is free in this world!!!



iMav said:


> drm is a deterrent a method to reduce piracy by making it complicated for people


I'm not teaching any company Management lessons, just pointing them that what they feared is not the case. Bringing the price down has had a significant impact on reducing piracy as everyone can see. A plz... keep the joke for some other day that: _drm is a deterrent a method to reduce piracy by making it complicated for people_



iMav said:


> moserbaer is only selling movies its not a production house neither is it a recording label guys please try and understand .... where are the recording companies supposed to make money from ..... u cant sell something cheaper than a particular limit and none of us know how moserbaer works as in how have they worked this out or what are their profit margins


No company in the world will sell anything without profits. Thats a basic funda of marketting and selling. Do you think all the profit goes to MoserBaer? They hafta pay the recording company for every DVD they sell. This is how it works. You can't, for e.g, sell anything and make money on it. No recording company gives rights to distributors to pocket all profits.



iMav said:


> marketing and pricing are the biggest factors for any business and a lot of thinking goes into it


Companies fear to experiment. But hats off to MoserBaer for taking such a big, bold and appropriate step to curb piracy 



iMav said:


> and anirudh please dont try to compare ur knowledge of marketing and management with that of the likes of recording companies and production houses around the world  which company wants to sell less of its products (except luxury items)


Sorry sir, I am a mere mortal. How can I compare my knowledge with the likes of recording companies?

The problem in today's world is that people don't think independently! When their choice of company brings out something they think that is the only option and support it. Sony fans swear DRM is the future coz Sony was one of the first to implement it. I can see the same attitude almost everywhere.

A company has HR dept., technical dept. etc but what they come out is not the ultimate thing. There are alternatives and definitely better. So think with your brainz.

Anyways.. all the posts haf been useless. I am signing out....


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## kumarmohit (Jan 5, 2008)

> *consumer-friendly DRM system*



The chances of having a consumer friendly DRM is like as much as Microsoft, heck anyone developing a bug free software. What was the word, ah... Oxymoron.

If DRM has been great and all why is it that the DRM is now being abandoned by the record companies who started it. Heck even Sony BMG, which is the last (and also the introducer) holdout of DRM is considering abandoning it with Amazon MP3 store.


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## iMav (Jan 7, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> l
> 
> Anyways.. all the posts haf been useless. I am signing out....


 ur could have been but this time around i tried to reason out with posts that were explaining some fundamentals abt drm which jeshtha has never spoken abt...

however im still not sure as to what specific problem u have with drm .... charan is using drm media and has said that he faces no issues with it other than not being playable on linux which i dont think shud be an issue with u coz u have often said that u use both platforms


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