# How safe are you?



## puneetgarg (Jun 7, 2014)

Hey guys,

I was about to order Moto E phone today after such a long wait of it being out of stock on Flipkart, but while I was ordering I came across this review.

"I guess no one noticed a relatively high SAR value due to which I think the device is priced very low. SAR head is 1.50W/kg, which is way too high. Please be cautious about this."
Moto E (Black) Review by Ravi B | Flipkart.com

Since he was not a certified buyer, I was not very sure if this might be true, so I searched online and confirmed the genuinity of the review. Moto E indeed has a SAR Value of 1.50 W/kg (head) and 1.36 W/kg (body).

Then I searched for SAR values of other phones and surprisingly they turned out to be pretty low as compared to Moto E. For example, some samsung phone had SAR value as low as 0.2W/Kg and the latest Apple iPhone 5S has a SAR value of 1.00 W/kg (head) and 0.80 W/kg (body) which is not very low too but is still almost 70% of the SAR value of Moto E.

Motorola's official website says this about SAR on the Moto E specifications page: the SAR limit is 2.0 W/kg in accordance with CENELEC
*rfhealth-sar.motorola.com/SAR/engl....jsp?standard=ICNIRP-1&prodid=Moto+E+-+XT1022

While further searching into the topic, I came across that LG, Motorola and Sony Ericsson have a history of producing very high specific absorption rate phones.
15 phones with highest radiation- The Times of India

*To somebody who is not familiar with SAR:*
Specific absorption rate (SAR) is a measure of the rate at which energy is absorbed by the human body when exposed to a radio frequency (RF) electromagnetic field; although, it can also refer to absorption of other forms of energy by tissue, including ultrasound. It is defined as the power absorbed per mass of tissue and has units of watts per kilogram (W/kg).
Specific absorption rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Higher SAR values has often been related to brain cancer, dementia, loss of memory, lack of concentration, digestive and sleep disturbances in various studies published in the past.
The FCC Guide, "Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) For Cell Phones: What It Means For You," after detailing the limitations of SAR values, offers the following "bottom line" editorial:
"ALL cell phones must meet the FCC’s RF exposure standard, which is set at a level well below that at which laboratory testing indicates, and medical and biological experts generally agree, adverse health effects could occur. For users who are concerned with the adequacy of this standard or who otherwise wish to further reduce their exposure, the most effective means to reduce exposure are to hold the cell phone away from the head or body and to use a speakerphone or hands-free accessory. These measures will generally have much more impact on RF energy absorption than the small difference in SAR between individual cell phones, which, in any event, is an unreliable comparison of RF exposure to consumers, given the variables of individual use."

So, in this case, I would like to know your valuable views on the same and what do you think, how safe is Moto E or infact any phone which you are using?


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## Flash (Jun 7, 2014)

Nice research, but not many people are aware of it.
Moreover, the mobile companies don't educate their consumers on this.

Only few mobiles have SAR certification sticker on it.


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## saswat23 (Jun 7, 2014)

Yes, that SAR value is too high.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 7, 2014)

Good info but Rather than SAR, 

Check if you live in a place close to telecom tower (BST) or under it in a apartment . The towers emit ionizing radiations 
and is very bad for health in long term.


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## Vyom (Jun 7, 2014)

So what are the suggestions for those who already bought Moto E?

Don't keep the phone near you most of the time?


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 7, 2014)

Vyom said:


> So what are the suggestions for those who already bought Moto E?
> 
> Don't keep the phone near you most of the time?



The recommended max SAR in india by trai is 1.6w/kg and Moto E is in margin 1.5w/kg.
Its not bad but follow these

1.Try to avoid keeping cell in pocket or close to body when not used for long time.

2.When signal reception is low , try not to call or continue speaking for long time.
When signal is low, the phone increases transmission power which can be harmful.

3.Keep calls short or use headsets for long calls.Better use texting over calls.

4.When u call/dial..till you hear ring don't put phone near ear.
When connecting tower..the power is high.
In andoid there is a setting to vibrate when call connects/lifted.
I use it all time

Hope these tips  helps.


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## Vyom (Jun 7, 2014)

^^ Liked.

(Yea, since like button is missing)


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## 101gamzer (Jun 7, 2014)

What about Moto G the same ??


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## Flash (Jun 7, 2014)

101gamzer said:


> What about Moto G the same ??


1.17 W/kg, a bit lesser than Moto E's 1.50W/kg.


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## 101gamzer (Jun 7, 2014)

Flash said:


> 1.17 W/kg, a bit lesser than Moto E's 1.50W/kg.



So im relatively safer than moto E users


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## saswat23 (Jun 7, 2014)

^^Yeah, a bit safer.


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## 101gamzer (Jun 7, 2014)

So can we conclude that Motorola is using dirty tricks for cost saving methods?


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## SaiyanGoku (Jun 7, 2014)

GSM arena says otherwise, Motorola Moto E Dual SIM - Full phone specifications



> SAR EU	 0.76 W/kg (head)



People believing specifications in flipkart blindly


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## bestpain (Jun 7, 2014)

u can check sar value go to setings>about phone>regulatory information


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## ankush28 (Jun 8, 2014)

101gamzer said:


> So can we conclude that Motorola is using dirty tricks for cost saving methods?



elaborate how they can save money using by this ?


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## $hadow (Jun 8, 2014)

ankush28 said:


> elaborate how they can save money using by this ?



Indeed missing like button


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## ssb1551 (Jun 8, 2014)

Can anyone please tell me how to find the SAR value on Samsung Galaxy S4(running Android 4.4.2)?


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## Flash (Jun 8, 2014)

ssb1551 said:


> Can anyone please tell me how to find the SAR value on Samsung Galaxy S4(running Android 4.4.2)?


Check in GSMArena.


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## kkn13 (Jun 8, 2014)

why dont most oems write it
nokia and a few other brands have SAR written all over the box and even a sticker at the back of the device(easily removable sticker)


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 8, 2014)

few things to consider.
SAR is not really an indicator for 'safety'.


> The SAR is a measure of the energy deposition in radiofrequency. It is a pretty good measure of that but it is not a measure of biological effect -- biological activity. And when it’s being used that way, it gives results that are totally misleading or irrelevant


SAR value is not a constant one. it changes  with the source of exposure and the person using the phone. 


> For example, if you are in a rural area or in an elevator or a car, where the cell phone uses more power, your brain will get a greater exposure from the higher power required in these instances.
> Likewise, if you use a low SAR value phone for long durations, you will be more exposed than someone who uses a low SAR value phone infrequently. Neither is indicative of safety.


another thing,


> Holding the phone in a slightly different way can actually render the worst SAR value phone better than the best SAR value phone.


 that is 



> if someone has a cell phone at max SAR of 1.6 W/kg and another has the lowest SAR cell phone (0.55 W/kg), it is certainly better to use the latter. However as a result of the inverse square law, just holding the phone in a slightly different way can mean that the worse phone is better than the best phone.
> 
> For example if the worst phone is normally held 2 mm from the head but a particular user holds it 3.4 mm from the head, the effective SAR becomes 0.55 W/kg. The distance overwhelms the different SAR values


another interesting fact


> SAR values have been created based on simulations of exposure in a plexiglass head filled with fluid, not a human head, and many scientists consider them to be inaccurate and irrelevant at determining actual biological effects.



Source : Top Safe Cell Phones That Arent Safe

also, if you are living in UK, you wont be able to use most of the phones released in India! Look at the maximum SAR given by UK authority on the phones sold in their country.

thing you have to do


> Physical distance of the phone from your brain, and less usage of the cell phone overall, more so than simply choosing a phone with a lower SAR value, is probably a far better insurance policy.


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## androi (Jun 11, 2014)

why reviewers including digit doesn't mention sar value and mention it as a negative point for the ones with high sar values? 
I prefer to buy samsung smartphones since they are mostly low on sar values at-least in a few mid range ones. Also they put their antennas in the bottom in most of their android phones, thats why you see many sar values mentioned on samsung handsets have sar value low on the head result and high on body (Note 3> 0.29W/kg (head) 0.36W/kg (body). Also samsung is made out of plastic, which helps the antennas compared to metal ones. Yes, many will be boiling over since i mentioned Samsung in a positive way, I agree with you its hardware is not as durable as many, UI is heavy and its plastic. Still even my next handset will most possibly be an Samsung, cause sar values, handset being light is more important to me than a feel of metal.


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## Anorion (Jun 11, 2014)

dont worry about it, brick houses, people and bananas emit more harmful radiation than the phone

*i.imgur.com/FH10BCy.png

*xkcd.com/radiation/


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## androi (Jun 11, 2014)

Anorion said:


> dont worry about it, brick houses, people and bananas emit more harmful radiation than the phone



*Once idiots believed smoking was good for health*

*www.crestock.com/uploads/blog/2009/controversial/20-Dr.-Battys-asthma-cigarettes.jpg

*www.crestock.com/uploads/blog/2009/controversial/18-Old-gold.jpg​


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## Pasapa (Jun 11, 2014)

^People also believed that homosexuality was a disease.


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 12, 2014)

androi said:


> why reviewers including digit doesn't mention sar value and mention it as a negative point for the ones with high sar values?
> I prefer to buy samsung smartphones since they are mostly low on sar values at-least in a few mid range ones. Also they put their antennas in the bottom in most of their android phones, thats why you see many sar values mentioned on samsung handsets have sar value low on the head result and high on body (Note 3> 0.29W/kg (head) 0.36W/kg (body). Also samsung is made out of plastic, which helps the antennas compared to metal ones. Yes, many will be boiling over since i mentioned Samsung in a positive way, I agree with you its hardware is not as durable as many, UI is heavy and its plastic. Still even my next handset will most possibly be an Samsung, cause sar values, handset being light is more important to me than a feel of metal.



why do you care much about sar! i think #post 20 clears most facts...  do you know that the quoted  sar value for note 3 is exactly for Europian market?   they have pretty low cut off. see the sar value Specs - AT&T Cell Phones SM-N900A | Samsung Cell Phones. it doesn't matter your next phone is samsung or not, how ever 'sar' value is not the ultimate level of safety.


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## rish1 (Jun 12, 2014)

don't make a big deal out of it.. like previously commented by other members 

i wanted to say 1 thing i did some research long time ago on this topic now forgotten

usa has a 1.6 w/kg limit which is averaged over *1gm*
and europe has a limit of 2w/kg which is averaged over *10gm*

which one was more harmful/safer theoretically i forgot

a samsung 0.5w/kg could also be more harmful than moto E 1.5 w/kg  

so we can't conclude on the basis of sar which one is more safer

- - - Updated - - -



101gamzer said:


> So im relatively safer than moto E users





saswat23 said:


> ^^Yeah, a bit safer.



No not at all a bit safer .. you can't answer that question on the basis of SAR

SAR is the* Maximum* radiation  that can be absorbed under full load 

so if samsung phone has a sar limit of 0.5 w/kg and on average the energy absorbed is 0.4w/kg whereas motorola has 1.5w/kg and on average it absorbs only 0.35 w/kg on average.. 

then moto E is relatively safer than Samsung..


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## bestpain (Jun 12, 2014)

Sar is dangerous for people who have brain


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## ithehappy (Jun 12, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> ^People also believed that homosexuality was a disease.


It is, just like any other disease. A problem in hormonal flow is a disease!


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## powerhoney (Jun 12, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> It is, just like any other disease. A problem in hormonal flow is a disease!



This is just so wrong!!!


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## ithehappy (Jun 12, 2014)

powerhoney said:


> This is just so wrong!!!


From you POV it might.


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## powerhoney (Jun 12, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> From you POV it might.



Yeah...

Anyway, welcome back...


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## ico (Jun 12, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> Yeah, but those slang were directed in air, not towards any person. And I didn't start anything! That other kid was the one who actually used words like "your stupid arse comment" and all.
> 
> Anyway, bunch of kids playing in kindergarten, always adorable, even when mistakes are done. Lets get over with it.


Think twice before using that Facepalm smiley. You started it off. He reacted.

If you don't agree with him, just tell him that you disagree and move on. That's what the other guy who disagreed with him did.

btw, banned for homophobia. We don't need that kind of shite posts here.


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