# AMD to nVidia : prove it, don’t just say it!



## Garbage (Mar 27, 2011)

> The World's Fastest Graphics Card... Done Right
> 
> At AMD we pride ourselves on both the excellence of our products, and in the integrity of our messaging.   Let me give you a perfect example.  Two weeks ago we launched our flagship GPU, the AMD Radeon™ HD 6990.  We had designed it to be a game-changer and we hit the bull’s eye.  The result: The AMD Radeon™ HD 6990 achieved the highest default single graphics card score of X3303 using the industry standard 3DMark11 benchmark.  And when we launched it, we issued a press release in which we proudly called it the “World’s Fastest Graphics Card” and fully disclosed the basis upon which we made that claim.
> 
> ...



Source: AMD blog


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## ithehappy (Mar 27, 2011)

Till both of them go retail, the above article is same as OP's unsername  (No offense to OP)


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## ico (Mar 27, 2011)

Both perform pretty much the same. What nVidia needs to fix is the burning issue in GTX 590 when overvolted. May be a VRM/driver problem.


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## Garbage (Mar 27, 2011)

A good discussion on above blog post: Hacker News | AMD to Nvidia: prove it, donâ€™t just say it


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## Zangetsu (Mar 28, 2011)

Its always AMD vs NVdia 

         

this one is the consumer  who gets a good card from the competition.....


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## Dangerous Dave (Mar 28, 2011)

What th cost of both the cards in India?


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## pauldmps (Mar 28, 2011)

But from whatever I have read (I'll post the links later), the HD 6990 is better performer than GTX 590.


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## vickybat (Mar 28, 2011)

^^ Well i have read something different then. Both are neck and neck but 590 has big advantage in newer games like crysis 2.

Refer this *thread*.


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## pauldmps (Mar 28, 2011)

^^ Might be. I am not an expert in GPUs, I just wrote what I read somewhere.

Digit reports that the AMD one is about only 1% faster but the Nvidia is much less noisier, cooler & consumes less power.

Nvidia releases the GeForce GTX 590 - Online Best Latest Price Reviews | Features in India


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## tkin (Mar 28, 2011)

Theres nothing to compare to, nVidia's drivers are light years ahead of amds, I'd rather go with 10% less performance than buy another ati gpu.


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## vickybat (Mar 28, 2011)

^^ Agreed buddy. 100% correct. Btw *tkin* check the crysis2 review i posted in that thread. 590 beats the 6990 out of the water even in a multimonitor setup.

The tested the retail copy with extreme settings at fullhd and 5760x1080p in triple monitor setup.


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## Zangetsu (Mar 28, 2011)

Hmm..so HD 6990 is better card than GTX 590???


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 28, 2011)

^^no. continue in that gtx 590 thread in graphic card section. *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/graphic-cards/137839-gtx-590-discussion-2.html

vicky lol they are testing without any sort of aa and with premature amd drivers(they still mention flickering)

now shall i mention something here about new dragon age2? nvidia is still to improve performance in that.

check the same review you posted. the next page. they mention nvidia has same issue of drivers with dragon age2 as amd with crysis2. that is immature drivers.


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## ico (Mar 28, 2011)

tkin said:


> Theres nothing to compare to, *nVidia's drivers are light years ahead of amds,* I'd rather go with 10% less performance than buy another ati gpu.


*i.imgur.com/bbezn.jpg

*i.imgur.com/Cvggd.jpg

where the eff is 1920x1080?? Been over a year now.  I can't even force it.

yup, I know how irritating that 99% load bug with ATi cards is. But this thing is equally irritating for me. I think 10.10e with Avivo disabled fixes that 99% load bug.



vickybat said:


> ^^ Agreed buddy. 100% correct. Btw *tkin* check the crysis2 review i posted in that thread. 590 beats the 6990 out of the water even in a multimonitor setup.
> 
> The tested the retail copy with extreme settings at fullhd and 5760x1080p in triple monitor setup.


I'd consider a game like Battlefield: BF2 a better way to compare instead of a TWIMTBP game.


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## vickybat (Mar 28, 2011)

^^ I would wait for battlefield 3 in that case. In fact its also good in bulletstorm and thats based on unreal engine.

Even the original crysis was a TWIMTBP title and was unbiased. So is crysis 2. Lets wait some more proper reviews with fixed drivers to pass the verdict. But i have a feeling that its going to favour fermi's tlp architecture here. Newer games should but its still early to comment.

In fact 590 performs better in battlefield 2 in the waterfall bench at high resolution. It falls just short in the chase bench.

But waterfall bench has much more to render than the chase bench and is more taxing. Saying this from personal experience.


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## ico (Mar 29, 2011)

Most of the arguments which I've seen from people in these fanboy threads is pure FUD without backing things with facts. Just use some articulate language with heavy terms which people themselves don't know about, and people think they really know stuff. Worthless fights. And then use of semi-cooked games for comparing benchmarks. Lastly random bolded text which almost translates to shouting.

And personally speaking, I'm tired of cleaning up posts. 

Here's the best conclusion: Equilibrium: AMD Radeon HD 6990 vs. Nvidia GeForce GTX 590. Page 11 - X-bit labs

Lastly it was good to see nVidia coming back with GTX 500 series. There had been too much AMD/ATi pwnage with HD 4000 and HD 5000 in the last 3 years. Expecting the same from Bulldozer.


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

^^ Actually if you are pointing me, then you'd see that i had backed down from that thread. Clearly it was leading nowhere and was foolish of me nagging the same things again and again.

What articulate language did i exactly use which i don't know myself? Can you please point it out?

Can you point out the games you consider semi-cooked?

About that conclusion of yours, i had already posted the *xbit link *in the gtx 590 thread in my second last post there. But it fell on blind eyes and nobody paid heed to any of it. Check my post *HERE*.

So its better to back of. My posts were neither fanboyish nor they appeared to be shouting at anybody. My fonts and sizes were normal but can't say about other posters. I was absolutely neutral.


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## ico (Mar 29, 2011)

I'm not pointing at anyone.  Rather everyone.

Two people got warned in that thread. You weren't one of them.

'GTX 590 responding better to higher clocks' was fanboyish. To overclock further more than a limit, you have to slightly overvolt. And when you overvolt GTX 590, it is going poof for many people. Cheap VRM? The reference cooler is crap.


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## Piyush (Mar 29, 2011)

ok guys i've been reading this thread and the other one too since days
and to be honest its leading nowhere
*Do you really know whats happening here?*

guy 1:hey check it out..these are the benchmarks from xyz site.....man,fd xxxx is beating shiit out of ftx xxx

guy 2:^^well not really....you see the difference is too small in that benchmark ....here look at this link: abc.com
this is some serious stuff

guy 3:yes i agree with that^^.ftx xyz is winning all the way....its because mainly because of its banana technology
they have implied it very nicely....fd xxxx has no chance against banana technology

guy 4:Oh really...because i'm not buying that
see FD xxxx already has a far superior technology -that is mango technology
look at those benchmarks from kela.com
they have clearly mentioned that mango technology has edge over banana technology

guy 3:who wants mango technology when their graphic cards have serious driver issues

guy 1:but those issues can be fixed with latest updates and patches from here : mangojuice.com
meanwhile look at these benchmarks....one more proof of fd xxxx winning easily

guy 2:^^thats because of the game is developed to perform on these cards
guess what ...see the benchmarks of this game and reply then

guy 1:i dont trust that site.they dont do good benchmarking....check this site for the same game that you mentioned and see the difference..source : bheja fry.com

guy 2:thats noobish
even i can say that i dont trust the site which you gave
see when you saw the results in which ftx xxx beating fd xxxx you changed the subject ...so do me a favour dont put any links of crappy sites

guy 1:who are you to tell me what to post and what not to....you are just spoiling the decorum of the forum

guy 2why i'm even talking to you noob

guy 1:whatever jerk


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

*@ ico*

Okay. But i was speaking more of a general fact than the 590. See fermi architecture responds relatively more to clock speeds afaik. Thats because parralelism in the thread level increases when clock speed is increased which directly effects the throughput. Simply put , more no. of threads gets processed faster when speeds increase{ in layman's terms.)

But in ilp, similar instruction sets are waited for a thread to be processed ( due to the dependancies )and bumping speeds though gets a performance increase  not in the level of a tlp architecture. So its kind of a general rule. I meant this. But there are lot of other aspects involved too. Ilp is not completely booged down and tlp does not have an outright advantage.

About overvolting, yeah its an issue with the current forceware drivers and indeed 590's go poof when overvolting beyond 1.000v. Expect this to get fixed though.

What say buddy?


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## ico (Mar 29, 2011)

vickybat said:


> *@ ico*
> 
> Okay. But i was speaking more of a general fact than the 590. See fermi architecture responds relatively more to clock speeds afaik.


That thread was and this thread is about GTX 590. Hardly a good overclocker unlike GTX 570/580.

I don't even understand the need of arguing when none of us is not going to buy these cards.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 29, 2011)

Piyush said:


> ok guys i've been reading this thread and the other one too since days
> and to be honest its leading nowhere
> *Do you really know whats happening here?*
> 
> ...





vicks the issue isnt with drivers. 2 separate drivers were tested. reports all over the net.


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

@ *ICO*

 Might be  as of now but whatever overclocking levels 590 has, it responds to the bump in clock speeds very well just like its single gpu counterparts. 

The stock 590 is hugely underclocked to check TDP.

The arguement won't benefit us but prospective buyers.



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> vicks the issue isnt with drivers. 2 separate drivers were tested. reports all over the net.



Ya oct also some part to play. Expecting these to get fixed in the retail card.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 29, 2011)

vicks actually to fix these issues everything needs to be improved. stock cooler, phases, vrm etc etc. 

but we will keep the thread updated *if* something good happens.


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

^^ Maybe board manufacturers design some custom cards. Evga gtx 590 precision don't have these problems. No single issue reported anywhere regarding it.

Phases are fine imo. Vrms are too cause they use the same samsung vrm's from gtx 580 and 570.


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## Joker (Mar 29, 2011)

vickybat said:
			
		

> Might be  as of now but whatever overclocking levels 590 has, it responds to the bump in clock speeds very well just like its single gpu counterparts.


then goes pop. pile up for rma.



			
				vickybat said:
			
		

> About overvolting, yeah its an issue with the current forceware drivers and indeed 590's go poof when overvolting beyond 1.000v. Expect this to get fixed though.


first it is not driver issue. if it is i thoguht nvidia made AWESOMOMEOJQO drivers


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 29, 2011)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Maybe board manufacturers design some custom cards. Evga gtx 590 precision don't have these problems. No single issue reported anywhere regarding it.
> 
> Phases are fine imo. Vrms are too cause they use the same samsung vrm's from gtx 580 and 570.




reports of blasts are mainly credited to these.

but yeah - EVGA in india.  i love their evga classified waterblocks. see the images of 590 with them. just looks wonderful.


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

Joker said:


> then goes pop. pile up for rma.
> 
> 
> first it is not driver issue. if it is i thoguht nvidia made AWESOMOMEOJQO drivers




Don't spoil the thread please.



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> reports of blasts are mainly credited to these.
> 
> but yeah - EVGA in india.  i love their evga classified waterblocks. see the images of 590 with them. just looks wonderful.



Yea mainly that asus card. Lets wait for some other cards to get reviewed.

Sadly yes evga is not available in india. Tirupati enterprises used to keep evga gtx 470's afaik. They imported them with high prices.

Evga is a very good board maker. But lets wait for the asus gts 590 direct cu II. I think it will see the light of day.


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## ico (Mar 29, 2011)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Maybe board manufacturers design some custom cards. Evga gtx 590 precision don't have these problems. No single issue reported anywhere regarding it.
> 
> Phases are fine imo. Vrms are too cause they use the same samsung vrm's from gtx 580 and 570.


You know why HD 6990 is so long? Because of a better VRM design.

GTX 590's PCB needs to be revised. It is not a driver issue, honestly.

*Edit:* All right, I'm out of this thread now.


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## vickybat (Mar 29, 2011)

^^ If its truly a fact then i guess nvidia is listening and so are the board manufacturers.

But i think that particular asus reference card has issues. Thats what i said to wait for different cards to surface and reviewed.

Pcb design has other aspects for length rather than vrms. Regulating the voltage is indeed very important whilst designing a pcb and there's a slim chance of nvidia ignoring it that much.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 29, 2011)

vickybat said:


> ^^ If its truly a fact then i guess nvidia is listening and so are the board manufacturers.
> 
> But i think that particular asus reference card has issues. Thats what i said to wait for different cards to surface and reviewed.
> 
> Pcb design has other aspects for length rather than vrms. Regulating the voltage is indeed very important whilst designing a pcb and there's a slim chance of nvidia ignoring it that much.



actually every reference card will have this issue. 
GTX590 FAIL(S) (It blows up) - Graphics-Cards - Graphic-Displays



ico said:


> You know why HD 6990 is so long? Because of a better VRM design.
> 
> GTX 590's PCB needs to be revised. It is not a driver issue, honestly.
> 
> *Edit:* All right, I'm out of this thread now.



you are right in saying that. i too read that.


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## gameranand (Apr 1, 2011)

ico said:
			
		

> You know why HD 6990 is so long? Because of a better VRM design.
> 
> GTX 590's PCB needs to be revised. It is not a driver issue, honestly.


Agreed.


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## ico (Apr 1, 2011)

well, the video where GTX 590 had blown up, it was running at 772Mhz and 1.035V. One guy had his GTX 590 burnt at stock @ Hard Forum.

Have a look at these:

GTX 590 - Idle vs Load.
*img84.imageshack.us/img84/7836/gtx590img0031534.jpg*img17.imageshack.us/img17/2416/gtx590img0031535.jpg*img708.imageshack.us/img708/7936/img0031587.png

HD 6990 - Idle vs Load.
*img819.imageshack.us/img819/3752/hd6990img0031264.jpg*img814.imageshack.us/img814/1755/hd6990img0031265.jpg*img14.imageshack.us/img14/7591/hd6990img0031266.jpg

Source: www.hardware.fr


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## Joker (Apr 2, 2011)

vickybat said:


> 590 beats the 6990 out of the water even in a multimonitor setup.


no it doesnt.

here is the ONLY review with the latest drivers...11.4 for hd 6990 and 267.71 for gtx 590: Civilization V - ASUS GeForce GTX 590 Video Card Review | [H]ard|OCP

hd 6990 won.



> We truly thought the GTX 590 was going to make the Radeon 6990 look bad, but the fact of the matter is that NVIDIA made the 6990 look that much better. The GTX 590 is not the "World's Fastest Single Card Solution" as stated on our page 1 slides; the Radeon HD 6990 is very much retaining that title. Hail to the King, baby!


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## ico (Apr 2, 2011)

Let us continue on the other thread. One thread is enough. Enough fanboyism.

*@vickybat*
I think you meant V (volt) not mV.


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