# Issue with Palit HD4850 Sonic



## RMN (Oct 31, 2008)

my 3 days old Card is giving me few probs!

initially i got few red vertical patches on the screen followed by vertical green dots and this use to disappear when i my Vista gets loaded.

but since morning i keep getting this all the time and i get  a BSOD after the "Loading" screen of Vista.this keeps happening and i cant access my OS...the only way is to boot in Safe Mode and then restart...though the patches come agiain it disappears after Vista is loaded.
i have not been able to test my card much since i don't have any games right now,but tried furmark and my display crashed.
My driver ver is 8.541.0.0.

tq


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## Ethan_Hunt (Oct 31, 2008)

Can you try installing XP & see if the problem still persists?


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## desiibond (Oct 31, 2008)

RMN said:


> my 3 days old Card is giving me few probs!
> 
> initially i got few red vertical patches on the screen followed by vertical green dots and this use to disappear when i my Vista gets loaded.
> 
> ...



You must upgrade Graphics driver to 8.10


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## RMN (Oct 31, 2008)

im having trouble installing XP(BSOD)

@desibond
sry i already have them...under "device Manager" it shows 8.541.0.0.


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## hellgate (Nov 1, 2008)

then try the card in a diff pc and see if u get the same probs....
also hav u oc'd ur quad?


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## tkin (Nov 1, 2008)

RMN said:


> im having trouble installing XP(BSOD)
> 
> @desibond
> sry i already have them...under "device Manager" it shows 8.541.0.0.


Go to mobo bios, look for the Storage(HDD) Configuration section, then set drives as IDE. The BSOD during XP installation is caused if storage is configured as AHCI.


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## RMN (Nov 2, 2008)

@hellgate
no i have not OC'd anything.


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

Update:I took my card to Tirupati and they tried it on their system without the drivers and there was absolutely no prob.I asked them to try with the drivers on but they said then they will need 2 days.
and they also told me that the prob sounds like a SW issue and asked me to do a clean install of Vista again.esp if i had updated my mobo driver or BIOS(and i had updated)so i took the card home.put it back to my system and reinserted the RAM...voila no prob!....next day it comes back.!i called tirupati and the guy tells me IT IS a SW issues and hence cant replace...he asked me to to a clean installation of VISTA

i reinstalled(clean) my Vista 32bit and installed the latest drivers for everything.
its been around 4 days....first couple of days i had no prob but then it slowly it started to come back and now every time i shutdown my pc and switch it back on after more than 10mins,i have to restart at least 10 times to get through the Vista loading screen....once that's done then no prob!.

ill explain my prob again-when i switch the system on right after the MSI screen i get red bars and green dots on my screen...then VISTA loading screen comes...after that the screen goes blank and the comes the BSOD with atikmdag.sys!
i have only tried the game that come with 3dmark06...played for 3-4 mins and was fine.....also i was able to complete the 3dmark benchmark succesfully with a score of 9960.
no OCing done on any parts.

i cant still figure out if its a HW or SW issue and i have no options left...pls help me..
tq


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## realdan (Nov 7, 2008)

when



> I took my card to Tirupati and they tried it on their system without the drivers and there was absolutely no prob



i presume there was none of these symptoms 


> when i switch the system on right after the MSI screen i get red bars and green dots on my screen



you might want to try updating the motherboard BIOS to a newer version if available.
you might want to check out the fans of the graphics card..run some games and see if it revs up or not.
you also might want to check ur system ram also

appearance of dots and all are not a good sign esp in the boot screen..indicating some sorts of problem..
did you installed it properly...was the requisite power cable connected...

more later


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

my BIOS is the latest ver.
the fan seems to be ok coz even when i benchmark with 3dmark the temp stays bet 50-60.


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## tkin (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> Update:I took my card to Tirupati and they tried it on their system without the drivers and there was absolutely no prob.I asked them to try with the drivers on but they said then they will need 2 days.
> and they also told me that the prob sounds like a SW issue and asked me to do a clean install of Vista again.esp if i had updated my mobo driver or BIOS(and i had updated)so i took the card home.put it back to my system and reinserted the RAM...voila no prob!....next day it comes back.!i called tirupati and the guy tells me IT IS a SW issues and hence cant replace...he asked me to to a clean installation of VISTA
> 
> i reinstalled(clean) my Vista 32bit and installed the latest drivers for everything.
> ...


Check whether your RAM stick is O.K, run memtest86 to be sure, the problem can also be related to the motherboard.

*The best possible solution* is to take your HDD along with the GFx card to Tirupati(or a friend's house), use your HDD along with the GFx card to boot up to find whether its a software issue, if boot-up is O.K then the problem is related with the mobo probably.

If problem occures during boot-up install XP, and consider changing the HDD.


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

my memtest results
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101168


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## tkin (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> my memtest results
> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101168


Then go for second suggestion, try to isolate the faulty component(SW/HW)


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

you mean i have to try a diff RAM?


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## tkin (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> you mean i have to try a diff RAM?


First do what I said earlier, if the PC boots @ Tirupati's service centre with your GFx card and your HDD then the problem is either with the mobo or RAM, then try to change the RAM(use a friend's, even 256MB will do) if PC boots O.K then problem is with your old RAM, if PC doesn't boot with new RAM then the mobo's the culprit.

P.S-Try to use older drivers from ATI.

If PC fails to boot @ Tirupati's then your HDD's dead, get a new one.

SMPS can also cause trouble, faulty SMPS can cause BSOD.


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

ok ill try them...
but if the HHD is dead then i would not be able to access my files right?

ok i have 2 old 256 sticks of HYNIX...its says DDRPC333 and DDRPC400...can i use this in my system?


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## realdan (Nov 7, 2008)

i dont think your motherboard supports ddr400 or ddr333 ram..it only support DDR2 667/800/1066 RAM


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

oh yes...thanks a lot.


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## ultimategpu (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> oh yes...thanks a lot.




Can u tell me what is the cost of your "monitor"=DELL SP2008WFP


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## max_snyper (Nov 7, 2008)

Hey Buddy
Have U Checked Ur Hd4850 On Friends Comp Coz There U Can Get A Clear Picture....secondly Check Ur Smps Coz That Cud Sort Of Trouble
First Do One Thing Uninstall Vista, Install Windows Xp  And See If It Works Or Not If It Doesnt Work Switch To Old Drivers If Everything Fails Then It Is A Hardware Fault 
One Of The Three  Parts Cud The Problem
1.motherboard
2.ur Smps
3.graphics Card
(graphic Card Is Just A Option )
These Three Come Into Picture When Video Problem Is Involved.....


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

@ultimategpu
i bought it a month back for 14k inc tax
@max_snyper
i can install XP since im getting a BSOD at the setup


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## ultimategpu (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> @ultimategpu
> i bought it a month back for 14k inc tax



Thank you


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## hellgate (Nov 7, 2008)

^^^   i agree that there r probs with the ATi gfx drivers.i've had same bsod probs with  my HD4850 and my current HD 4870 Sonic.but there probs r rare not like yours.i think ur prob is with ram.my frnd had a similar prob like urs with his 4850.he inc'd the vdimm and prob was solved


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## RMN (Nov 7, 2008)

RMN said:


> @max_snyper
> i can_*t *_install XP since im getting a BSOD at the setup



sry mistake!



hellgate said:


> he inc'd the vdimm and prob was solved



sry i dint get you....vdimm?

btw...i had shut down my pc for around 45mins and just switched it back on now and...well i dint get any error!
god!


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## RMN (Nov 12, 2008)

guys....i think ive found the prob.
since my PC was restarting like a mad dog...and since i was as angry as a mad bull..i decided to do it the hard way!

i just kept waving all the wires esp.the one that connects to the card...some blocks started to disappear!and since then my pc looks fine!i don't think its the PSU but the adapter that i got with the card...anyway im not sure yet...ill check out tom morning which is when everything is at its worst and report back.!


pray for me!


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## tkin (Nov 12, 2008)

RMN said:


> @ultimategpu
> i bought it a month back for 14k inc tax
> @max_snyper
> i can install XP since im getting a BSOD at the setup


BSOD may be cased by SATA Native mode/ AHCI mode being enabled for HDDs. Disable it in bios.


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## kaja (Dec 2, 2008)

Dear buddy,

I have also got the same problem (3 vertical red lines and dots) with palit 4850 sonic and also tried it with intel 965 ry with transcend 800 ram but no use the same lines appear again. Tried different ram, psu, hdd, the error still persists and I tried xfx 7300 gt card in my mobo it works fine. So I found the culprit is the 4850 sonic. Tried every possible way even without hdd and keyboard, mouse but no use.

-----------------------------------------
intel 6400 - asus p5q deluxe - palit 4850 sonic - corsair 6400c4 dhx 1gb x 2 ddr2 ram - corsaid cmpsu 620hx - coolermaster cm 690 case - apc 1100va ups


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## RMN (Dec 2, 2008)

@kaja
yes its the cards fault.i suspected that the power converter i got with the card was faulty...got it replaced but no use.
now i have found the prob,it is the power port on the card that is loose. i took it to the service center again and they agreed to replace it(finally!)...ill have to wait till Monday for it!

btw...when those lines appear try to gently(or little hard) press the power port on your GFX card..if then the lines disappear then its the ports fault.

did you ask for replacement?


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## kaja (Dec 2, 2008)

I have tried several times (power port of the card) with my corsair tx750 watts and and hx620 watts both got 8 pin and also tried with totally different pc but no use. I have given it for replacement. It will took 2 to 4 days.


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## RMN (Dec 9, 2008)

ok guys i finally got the replacement and its just fine now!


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## kaja (Dec 12, 2008)

I have got the same palit 4850 sonic card repaired after a week.

-----------------------------------------
intel 6400 - asus p5q deluxe - palit 4850 sonic - corsair 6400c4 dhx 1gb x 2 ddr2 ram - corsaid cmpsu 620hx - coolermaster cm 690 case - apc 1100va ups


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## detonator2359 (Dec 12, 2008)

i was thinkin 2 buy palit hd4870 sonic 1gb but after readin ur prob m confused shld i buy it or not...???? or go for other gpu ...


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## RMN (Dec 12, 2008)

@detonator
well BSOD is pretty common among all the cards(geforce and radeon).
since i had this prob ,ive almost searched on every forum and never saw a person with this issue(apart from kaja)!


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## ganeshravi (Dec 13, 2008)

i too had a prob with my HD4850 sonic.... i used to get the BSOD only when i played games... 

i jus ent to the dealer... threw it on his face and gave a few blastings... n viola he coolly took a box of HD4850 sonic, removed the new card from it and put in the old card and gave the new card to me...!!!

i donno what's goin to happen to the person who buys it.... anyway gettin it replaced its the best option.... i also tried my HDD, ram with ohter comps and jus worked fine... and i tot maybe the PSU was insufficient and i also tried it with a corsair HX620... but the problem persisted....

so got it changed...


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## namic (Dec 21, 2008)

@RMN

  d00d i am also having the same issue. I got a replacement for my first card last thursday. I plugged it in. For first 10-20 mins there were no problems. I had to shutdown and attend o some work. After that i came back and powered the pc bang the red lines are appearing again. I tried all the possible things told above, still no use. Can you tell me what exactly happened and how it got fixed at ur end  My PSU is Corsair VX450.


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## RMN (Dec 21, 2008)

@namic


RMN said:


> @kaja
> yes its the cards fault.i suspected that the power converter i got with the card was faulty...got it replaced but no use.
> now i have found the prob,it is the power port on the card that is loose. i took it to the service center again and they agreed to replace it(finally!)...ill have to wait till Monday for it!
> 
> ...


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## namic (Dec 21, 2008)

I have tried that also but still the issue exsist. Since this card is a replacement for the old one I am afraid whether the Tirupati guys will help. Can you tell me where in Kerala do Palit have service centres? I hail from TVM. Btw now I am also not able to install the drivers of my card.


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## RMN (Dec 22, 2008)

sry dude i don't know abt TVM.
i got mine replaced at the Tirupati service center in EKM.
and i cant see how they wont give you a replacement again.
next time test it with them.

and btw since both the cards are faulty i suggest you check if your SMPS and RAM are ok!.

best of luck!


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## namic (Dec 22, 2008)

My SMPS and RAM are working fine...    SMPS - Corsair VX450 and RAM - Corsair TwinXMS2 2 x 1gb  My friend plugged his 8800GT into mine and its working fine. Anyways thanks for ur reply d00d. I guess will have to travel to EKM. I dont trust this card shipping thing.


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## hellgate (Dec 22, 2008)

i also had similar probs when i had a Palit HD4850 but most BSOD issues wer5e resolved when i got the Palit HD4870 Sonic.now with XFX 9800GT SLi all BSOD probs r resolved.not a single BSOD.


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## redmanc (Dec 22, 2008)

After switching back to XP from Vista, I did not get a single BSOD.


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## RMN (Dec 22, 2008)

OS can cause BSOD,but the RED and GREEN patches/dots appearing is completely a HW issue.
and after getting my replacement i have not got a single BSOD with Vista.
ive played COD4,GRID and Far Cry2 successfully.


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## redmanc (Dec 22, 2008)

Yep, red patches and all that is a HW problem.


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## megahashim (Feb 1, 2009)

Hello friends. I too have joined your club of “Palit HD 4850 Sonic red-bands and green dots issue”.
Here’s my PC config first: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0Ghz, Gigabyte EP45-UD3R MB, Corsair XMS2 2GBx2 DDR2 800 Mhz RAM, Cooler Master 600W Duo SMPS, 500GB Seagate HDD, Cooler Master CPU fan heat sink and fan array

I read all of your issues and I have a few questions… just after this issue summary

1. I too see thick, red bars and green dots on my display when I boot into my Vista 32bit OS, and I can’t seem to play my games for more than 5 min. They crash just after I see red, square dots fill my screen. Most often I get a blue screen error which comes and goes so fast that I cannot read what it’s displaying. But I do see something regarding “dumping physical memory”. Must be some memory-clearing process just before the restart. 

2. First I thought my card was not snugly fit into the PCI-E slot. So I took it out and fit it back tightly… issue PERSISTS!

3. Like a few of you mentioned, I tried nudging the free corner of the card (near the 8-pin power connector). Aha! I too started to see the issue clearing away… but voila! … red bars and green dots complemented by the blue screen!

*My initial deductions*: ● Card is faulty ● MB PCI-E connector too “open” to tightly hold the card ● Card too heavy due to the HUGE heat sink and fan array that the PCI-E slot is struggling to keep its copper contacts connected ● Driver issue (later discarded cuz all these seem to be HW/mechanical issues) ● Card’s power connector loose/faulty

I know my RAM’s not the issue cuz I tried other RAM and the issue persisted.
The PCI-E slot seemed to hold all copper contacts when I shined a torch at it nudged the card up and down. But still feel the heat sink and fan array is too heavy for this card. But now that few of you have gotten back replacements cards that are working fine I guess I’ll hold that thought.
The soldering on my card at the power connecter corner looked fine! Now is the 6 to 8-pin converter wire faulty? Come on… its just wires supplying current… what do you guys think? Could this be the issue?...

Anyway. I too am gonna try my hand at a replacement option with my dealer. ALSO, I must say this in support for the card – performance (when the games do manage to run) is top notch! Even Crysis ran OK at ALL HIGH settings (but mind you, at low resolution of 1152*864 – I have a 4:3 17" Samsung monitor)

Can anybody out there suggest a good HD4870 card from manufacturers other than Palit? Is Sapphire good? HIS? GeCube? Anybody???!

Thanks for the patient reading. Do reply
P.S.: Does Palit’s HD4870 Sonic Dual Edition have the same issue?


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## RMN (Feb 1, 2009)

megahashim said:


> 3. Like a few of you mentioned, I tried nudging the free corner of the card (near the 8-pin power connector). Aha! I too started to see the issue clearing away… but voila! … red bars and green dots complemented by the blue screen!


then it is 100% your cards fault,nothing to  do with any other components.
Just get it replaced that's it.

best of luck


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 2, 2009)

Its the power supply. 
Said it before- will say it again. even a cm extreme 600w can barely get 400w on operational temps of 40 degrees celcius. All extreme series have 70% efficiency and tested on *operational temps of 25 degrees celcius*. Operational temp increases, efficiency falls down. People dont think about power supplies and hook it up with expensive cards and expecting it to run properly. Google on cm extreme series and you will find them creating damage rather than giving stability. What's the point of people buying seriously good cards and without thinking for a moment frying the card and claiming that the card that is at fault? Are you trying to understand that a point I am putting up here? Hardware dont die for no reason at all. Cant buy a decent psu- dont expect a decent graphic card to run properly.


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## RMN (Feb 2, 2009)

@The Sorcerer
i guess you are wrong mate.
im using a Cooler Master PCAR-600 to power my Palit HD4850 Sonic and i have absolutely no problem,that is after i got my initial card replaced since it had a faulty Power port.
*megahashim* has clearly mentioned that the problem was clearing away when he nudged the card near the power port,and that's how i figured out my card was faulty.

Cooler Master PCAR-600 is not the BEST PSU but its a very good one esp. for a 4850.
4850 might be the max this PSU can handle.

@megahashim

i suggest you test you card with another PSU if possible...just to make sure.


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 2, 2009)

^^ dude just google it for crying out loud and get some facts right. No pun intended but I help other forums as well so giving my help here is bit of a time cruncher for me. It was allready exposed by Johny guru and another french review site that coolermaster 600 and 650w extreme are infact low grade version of seventeam 500w. None of the extreme lineups have an active pfc. coolermaster extreme lineups are know to kill systems before killing itself.
*www.newegg.com/Product/ProductRevi...=False&VendorMark=&Keywords=(keywords)&Page=2
Even a better arguement is put up in various forums- including jonny guru, xtremesystems, tech enclave and hardware secrets. Even VIP silver (with bluish casing) psu lineups have active pfc. Non japanese caps, no active pfc, copper heatsinks from seventeam replaced with aluminium ones, bad fans and tested on 25degrees operational temps and history of killing multiple system is proof enough. An extreme plus 460w is better than extreme since its tested on 40 degrees celcius. A comparison between real power 550w and the so called 600w even on cost and specifications will be enough for a person to do some digging.


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## RMN (Feb 3, 2009)

dude....i never said the PSU the best or anything!
i know its an avg stuff!

and you are not answering to the posters Q..you are answering something else!

i had the EXACT same prob what *megahashim* had.
i.e there are red stripes  and green dots on the screen.
but when i nudged the power port of the HD4850 the dots and stripes would go away(happened with *megahashim* too).
hence i got my card replaced any i have absolutely no prob now.

so 90% chance is that the card is faulty with *megahashim* too.
i know there are chances the PSU can be faulty but since i had the EXACT same prob...its should be the card.


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 3, 2009)

I didnt say the psu is faulty. I said coolermaster extreme series (in a different way though) are sub standard power supplies for that price. You are blaming the card- which means you haven't made any efforts from your end to find about the psu by googling. The cm extreme is known to damage other parts of the system as well. How do you expect a psu without an active pfc to run properly on a system with an ati 4850?? People will naturally reply by saying "Hey I am using cm 500w extreme so far on so and so card and nothing happened- any explanations for that"- for these kind of people, they need to research on ripple, operational temps and efficiency. Once the electrolytic capacitors and main capacitors start to "die", it does start giving issues slowly- like hard drive, rams, graphic cards, etc. Sometimes it blows up immidiately and sometime its just another ticking timebomb. 
Anyways its your system so your call. Dont expect a graphic card to run properly for a long time with a sub standard power supply. Buying cm extreme series (or any psu without an active pfc, better cooling, atleast 16-18 AWG wiring with professional finishing, soldering and good fans alongwith solid casing and main caps, electrolytic caps, pfc layer, MOVs- the list goes on) in this day of age is just plain silly. There were times that one was able to find Hipoxy resin between 2 electrolytic capacitors on the extreme series. Putting these powersupplies on a load tester will prove my point- something that real review sites like jonyguru and hardware secrets do and proved many psu's advertised specifications as WRONG.


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## RMN (Feb 3, 2009)

The Sorcerer said:


> I didnt say the psu is faulty. I said coolermaster extreme series (in a different way though) are sub standard power supplies for that price. *You are blaming the card- which means you haven't made any efforts from your end to find about the psu by googling*.


why shouldn't i blame the card if its faulty?
the power port of my card was loose!!!!!!!!!that means THIS SPECIFIC PROBLEM(in my case at least) is CARD RELATED!!!!

again this PSU might be sub standard...but doesn't mean the card can never be faulty!


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## topgear (Feb 3, 2009)

Yes. The gfx card you got is certainly faulty. Loose power connector means it's physical prob too.

BTW, The CM600W is enough to run HD4850. People even running HJD4850 with CM500W.


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 3, 2009)

topgear said:


> BTW, The CM600W is enough to run HD4850.* People even running HJD4850 with CM500W.*


I did mention it before on my previous post, but let me repeat and I quote


The Sorcerer said:


> People will naturally reply by saying "Hey I am using cm 500w extreme so far on so and so card and nothing happened- any explanations for that"- for these kind of people, they need to research on ripple, operational temps and efficiency. Once the electrolytic capacitors and main capacitors start to "die", it does start giving issues slowly- like hard drive, rams, graphic cards, etc. Sometimes it blows up immidiately and sometime its just another ticking timebomb.


Its not the question of whether its running or not, but for how long!!


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## topgear (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't have knowledge like you but I know I thing for sure ( seems like you don't know it & don't read posts carefully but just try to prove your theory & point )

If a card gives issue within 3 days of buying then the card is faulty for sure.

& he wanted to know about his card not his PSU. I do some research before posting & don't advice people to increase my post count.

HD4850 just can not die using CM600W withing 3 days of buying.
He is getting probs with his gfx card when starting his comp.
I mean before loading the gfx card & psu with some games & the gfx cards power connector is not soldered properly.

Theories aside - I know this for sure CM600W is just sufficient to run HD4850 & I also know CM600W is rated at only 25C.

HD 4850 cosumes 41-110 W max
*archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp?s=2&c=7&t=9354

or 47.9W to 109.6W
*www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-radeon-power,2122-6.html

Which I belive CM600W can easily deliver.

Now companies like CM is mentioning it's specs. What about those local brand PSUs. Many people runs their rigs with them with nearly 5-6 years. Also electrolytic capacitor based mobos from P3,P2 era is still running without prob.

I know people need advices ( which will give them mental relief also ) & a helping hand when they are in trouble coz it gives them frustration & mental pain.

Seems like you give out too much advices :



> I am helping other Indian tech forums. Digit will require as much as time I invested in chip forums to make people aware about hardware since many people are giving absolutely wrong advice. In Indian tech forums, quantity posts seem to over power quality posts. I request users not to blindly take an advice for granted and make efforts to google about a review. Most really good reputed reviewers for the time being are johny guru and hardware secrets. User reviews are not always right since not many users test their new hardware entirely.
> I request the ethical advisors that are in digit to help people out and make the forum content stand out in quality. We have been there when we were taken for a ride so its necessary to give quality advice. As for people who are giving vague aside- beware.



From :
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1045710&posted=1#post1045710

*BTW, Don't get me wrong - I've no intention to flame you*


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 4, 2009)

^^ No worries mate. We are all on the same team .
Properties for a extreme series:
70% efficiency tested on operational temps of 25 degrees celcius when it comes to extreme series ONLY. A psu needs to be tested on operational temps of atleast minimum 40 based on current standards. The temps increases, the efficiency decreases. The efficiency decreases psu tries to pull more power. Due to the stress heat is generated. Heat is generated, voltage ripple goes for a toss. Heat kicks efficiency because of non japanese caps, non active pfc and a very bad fan. 
Second:
*c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/17-171-013-03.jpg
DC output in volts is not mention- but only of AC. Something is fishy .
In spilt rails, there is a certain amount of DC power loss but its compensated by putting some really good caps- like in corsair hx620. Not in the case of cm extreme series. 
Watt calculators do give a pretty good theoratical consumption rate and they are useful. But not many manufacturers do promise to deliver of what its advertised. Many unethical manufacturers have a habit of hiding the DC output. As mentioned before, when a psu converts AC into DC- there is a power loss- something which is inevitable unless something radically ground breaking comes up. But for the time being- lesser the power loss during AC- DC conversion, higher the efficiency- and more expensive. Operational temps do play an important role as well. An FSP Foxtron based VIP silver (bluish casing) itself has an active pfc. cm extreme series have most probably sleeve bearing fan- as someone pointed out in a heated discussion on another forum. 
If you see it that way- you are paying for an outdated psu- passive pfc, in current standards- low end version, bad fan and no good caps. If you calculate it that way, cm extreme are a rip off. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think extreme series were from the good old amd athlon days. Extreme plus series are tested on 40 degrees celcius with same efficiency- so cm extreme plus 460w will be a better choice for a system with 4850. There is no established regulation which has guideliness on how to label a psu- so legally speaking every company can follow their own philisophy as they seem fit. This is why you find sub standard psu like huntkey circling around. There are ethical manufacturers though- but its more on their OEM rather then mainstream company.


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## topgear (Feb 4, 2009)

Hey, Thanks for the the explanation 

But one thing - People faced issue with even corsair VX450W psu which is supposed to be a very good PSU so I thought the Palit HD4850 has some faults.


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## tkin (Feb 4, 2009)

Why, so much fuss with HD4850, does people think this card is made by god or something? Can't they expect that the card can be faulty? This thread was solved a longtime ago, the card is faulty.

BTW- My friend runs the following components on CM600w and its absolutely O.K.

1.XFX 8800GT OC(Alpha Dog)
2.2 SATA HDD and one PATA HDD
3.C2Q Q6600
4.MSI P35 Platinum Combo with 4GB RAM
5.2 DVD writers at the same time 
6.2 Fans.

CM600w runs these flawlessly, looks like this is also a very underrated PSU, its absolutely fine, I got HX620 due to cabble clutter.


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 6, 2009)

tkin said:


> Why, so much fuss with HD4850, does people think this card is made by god or something? Can't they expect that the card can be faulty?





tkin said:


> *CM600w runs these flawlessly*, looks like this is also a very underrated PSU, its absolutely fine, I got HX620 due to cabble clutter.



So in other words, you mean to say that cm 600w extreme is flawless (oh yeah you did mention it)....therefore made by God??
 Passive pfc, 70% effiency tested on operational temps of 25 degrees celcius. Current standard power supply must be tested on atleast 40- 50 degrees celicus.


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## tkin (Feb 6, 2009)

The Sorcerer said:


> So in other words, you mean to say that cm 600w extreme is flawless (oh yeah you did mention it)....therefore made by God??
> Passive pfc, 70% effiency tested on operational temps of 25 degrees celcius. Current standard power supply must be tested on atleast 40- 50 degrees celicus.


No, but listen, I live in Kolkata, it really gets hot in here in summer, the CM600w is working flawlessly with the said load for nearly two years now in a not so well ventilated case, if the specs were that important it would have died by now.

Specs are needed but they are not alaways that important. 70% efficiency means 70/100*600=420w, enough juice to run a good rig. CM makes good cases so why should their PSU be so bad, we all know Corsair RAMs are better that Kingston or Transcend, does it stop us from getting those RAMs?

I've plans to get a GTX280 in future, otherwise I would have got the CM600w for half the price of 620HX.


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 6, 2009)

^^ Dude- let repeat it again in 1 single post. cm extreme 600w is not a 600w. They just labelled it. There is no international body which kept any standard way of labelling their power supply. Every psu manufacturer follow their own philisophy. It is because of this power supply manufacturer cannot be sued completly. Again- its a budget version of seventeam 500w. ITS REBADGED!!!!! If it so- why such a difference between extreme 600w and real power 600w?? Check out jhony guru reviews. Besides extreme series is seriously outdated. So much and so less? They literally opened it and its written on the PCB that its a seventeam 500w. On top of it, seventeam 500w has a copper heatsink- these have aluminimum. 
What do you mean specs are not important?? You should get what you pay for and should know what you pay for!!! If you dont- people would be banging their system with iball psu and because of this many unethical dealers will follow more bad practices- more than parallel import or selling scrap. When people complain why sellers do this- its because the buyers are not aware and willing to accumulate knowledge. Dealers will say whatever they have as good- its their bread and butter after all. 
Again- tkin. You need to research on google. Go to hardware secrets and read the anatomy of a power supply by gabriel. Its a fantastic article and its does show how good or bad a psu can be. Be aware its an exhaustive article so you need great amount of patience. But if you are still stubborn about not even making an effort to google, then arrogance diminishes wisedom. It is because of this we find companies like huntkey, zebronics and iball getting away. Brand is not important- check the OEM and its model number. Even a cm 650w extreme is a seventeam 500w which is exposed by nokytech.


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## megahashim (Feb 9, 2009)

Guys, guys, guys... thank you so much for your posts. Sorceror, RMN, TopGear, tkin... Really gave me more to think upon. 

Just wanted to update you on my progress. I gave my card to the distributor, "Thirupathi" for damage check and replacement.
Just a small flashback...   a while ago "Thirupathi" delivered the card in question to another dealer. The customer it seems complained of the same issue that we are facing. In that particular case, the issue turned out to be the PSU (sorry but I do not know which make). Replacement of PSU solved the issue, it seems. 

In my case I tried my card with my CM-600W. For test purposes (having read Sorceror’s post), I then tried my card on a totally different system which had a CM-500W PSU, which has been successfully giving WOW performance for a stock HD4850 (GeCube) since the last 8 months. But MY CARD…! Well we know where this story ends…  Hence I finally decided to give it up for replacement.

So, as I was saying, the disti. did argue that they did not face any problems when testing my card, even with different PSUs.  Anyway at my persistence, they agreed to send me a new piece. I just want to rule out the fact once and for all in MY CASE, that the issue is with the card. Once I get the new card, I shall test it on my system, with different PSUs too, and keep you updated on the results.

Once again, thank you all for your insights. Sorceror, since you seem to be well informed on PSUs, could you please suggest to me good PSU brands to use with…
1. HD 4850
2. HD 4870
Please do suggest the wattage required also for the above, and if it is relevant, for 512MB and 1GB versions also. Thank you


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## RMN (Feb 9, 2009)

best of luck!


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## Ethan_Hunt (Feb 9, 2009)

megahashim said:


> Once again, thank you all for your insights. Sorceror, since you seem to be well informed on PSUs, could you please suggest to me good PSU brands to use with…[/FONT][/COLOR]
> 1. HD 4850
> 2. HD 4870
> Please do suggest the wattage required also for the above, and if it is relevant, for 512MB and 1GB versions also. Thank you


I'd say the Corsair VX450 would be an ideal choice. Have been using my GeCube HD4850 and is pretty rock solid.


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## topgear (Feb 9, 2009)

megahashim said:


> Guys, guys, guys... thank you so much for your posts. Sorceror, RMN, TopGear, tkin... Really gave me more to think upon.
> 
> Just wanted to update you on my progress. I gave my card to the distributor, "Thirupathi" for damage check and replacement.
> Just a small flashback...   a while ago "Thirupathi" delivered the card in question to another dealer. The customer it seems complained of the same issue that we are facing. In that particular case, the issue turned out to be the PSU (sorry but I do not know which make). Replacement of PSU solved the issue, it seems.
> ...



HD 4850 Consumes
47-110W

HD 4870 Consumes
69-151W


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## RMN (Feb 9, 2009)

@topgear
u mean 4870 right?


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 10, 2009)

I shall resurrect the psu guide tomorrow morning which includes psu recommendations as well which i have put in another Indian tech forum and made a large impact. I also got major points in regards to multiple rails cleared up but its still bit of a confusion . Since I made a major changes but didnt make a point to put it up here due to my other obligations. cm extreme series psu eventually kills a system. Once the psu guide is up, I wish if mods will sticky. If not, the regulars can always bookmark it and give the link to people with similar query.
For 4850- vx450 hands down. But be aware that the price has gone as high as 4.2- 4.5k. I used to remember this beast used to be available for 3.2k, but major sales got tirupathi enterpise tick for profit.


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## topgear (Feb 10, 2009)

RMN said:


> @topgear
> u mean 4870 right?



Yeah. Sorry for the mistake. Thanks buddy for pointing it out


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## NVIDIAGeek (Feb 10, 2009)

How much Watts is Corsair VX450??? 450W or 600W.......??


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## RMN (Feb 10, 2009)

@sorcerer
hey listen...
these are the components im using with my eXtreme Power 600W 
-HD4850
-Q6600
-3fans(non-led)
-3HDDs(160,120,40)
-DVD combo

my room temp on avg is 30c and i have not OCed anything.
so far ive not faced any power related issues so can my PSU still be "slowly killing my rig"?
is there anyway to know if the components are getting affected?


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## The Sorcerer (Feb 11, 2009)

@ nvidia geek: corsair vx450 is Seasonic 500w OEM which is known to be stretched till 650w at 100% peak load. Not I recommend to put these psu on 100% load.  80% on efficiency tested on 50 degrees celcius of operational temps. I think corsair vx450 gtx280 but not sure. It can run in the ranks of gtx 260 cor 216 and 4850- maybe 4870 but I havent seen one rig doing so would recommend something like vx550 or real power 550w for 4870.
@ RMN: I dont see why it wont since its not OCed. Its not that crappy- but the labeling is wrong and the price is too much for a psu which is pretty outdated. The seventeam's 500w has a copper heatsink, but this one doesnt. I also found posts from other forums that some of the cm extreme models have hupoxy resin between the capacitors to make sure they dont touch each other. CM has history of degrading their stuff once the sales volume goes high- but many pc peripheral makers do a lot these days. Even a cm extreme plus 460w is a better buy over this if one buys a psu now. But extreme versions are something which is there from amd anthlon days- atleast the 500w extreme pcap (most likely) since a friend of mine got it long time ago. But if the budget allows you to change, I would recommend to do so. To tell the truth, I found that sub standard surge protectors are also another reason for potential damage as well- but I am well verse with the psu and not other components like ups (didnt need one) and surge protector (Using belkin surge protector since I found mx and those 200 buck walla so called protectors to have 20 AWG wires and a copper coil with a fuse).


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