# TFT Screen Choice..



## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

I am plannin to upgrade to 17" TFT

Now my old CRT 17" LG Studioworks 700S , the person is taking for Rs. 3000 .. Is this a good buy back price???

I have two choices 

1) LG L1720B : Rs. 14900
2) Samsung 713N : Rs. 15700

Which is better?? is the pricing right ?? should i go for any other model?? which one??

please answer queries asap.. it is a 1 time buy remember..


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## mail2and (Oct 24, 2005)

LG L1720B has 16 ms response time i guess... where as Samsung 713N has 8 ms. Also Samsung LCDs are just brilliant.. i own 710N which is same as 713N except that it has 12 ms RT.

I'd recommend going in for Samsung 713n


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## theraven (Oct 24, 2005)

also the contrast ratio and brightness of the samsung 713n is better than that of the LG
samsung is ur clear choice


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

Ok.. cool.. 

any 3rd opinion?? is it good price i m getting? im not much of an expert in monitor field..


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## Major-Minor (Oct 24, 2005)

Viewsonic VA712b - 8ms

 VA712b
Rs. 14,750 from Roop Technology.

OR

Viewsonic VX724 - 4ms

 VX724

Rs. 19,500 from Roop Technology.


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

Hey i have got caught in 1 question

should i go for a TFT?? do i need it? can some1 point out advantage and disadvantage of a TFT screen?? 

if u had a choice between a 17" CRT and TFT what would u take ?? y??

my comp is on nearly 24 hrs.. and i do some gaming and lot of surfing everday.. 

please suggest asap


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## grinning_devil (Oct 24, 2005)

Just a few  simple questions .... 

  
are u the one who is going to pay the electricity bills ???? 

if the answer is yes to the above one... go for TFT 

  
How does ur comp. table looks like .. ?? overcrowded nd messy ((like mine)).... ??

if u say yes to the above one..then again TFT is ur choice...


Last question .... 
In frustrating times...do u intend to give a tight slap to monitor...just to vent out ur anger....????? 
if the answer is yes again...DON'T go for TFT .... !!!    


oooh by the way...iam abt to do the same upgrade...but will have to wait now...have exhausted 2400bucks for Microsoft wireless KB/Mouse ...


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## Sankalp (Oct 24, 2005)

Well few months back I too bought a TFT. Did a lot of reserch work. Compared the monitors side by side and finally decided to go for Samsung. It is undoubtedly the best in the market and comes witha a 3 yrs warrenty. U wont lose nething even u have to pay a bit more for it. But as far as i know the Samsung monitor was priced Rs 100 less from where I bought.


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## Sankalp (Oct 24, 2005)

Almost forgot to tell If u r a hardcore gamer u shud go for CRT monitors


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## grinning_devil (Oct 24, 2005)

@Sankalp....100rs hardly makes a diff. ... when did u purchased it and frm where ???
was it 100 or a typo for 1000 ?????


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

Sankalp said:
			
		

> Almost forgot to tell If u r a hardcore gamer u shud go for CRT monitors



y so?? i do play games a lot but cant say hardcore


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

grinning_devil said:
			
		

> Last question ....
> In frustrating times...do u intend to give a tight slap to monitor...just to vent out ur anger....?????
> if the answer is yes again...DON'T go for TFT .... !!!



y so?? very delicate?? i dont slap.. but just incase some passerby hits it then???


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## theraven (Oct 24, 2005)

cuz CRT monitors offer very clear and crisp displays even tho lcd is gettin there
also CRT monitors dont have ANY amount of ghosting
or dead pixel problems
and also have a larger viewing area !!

afaik ... only samsung LCD range is worth it... the  ones from viewsonic have certain specs which arent even as good as samsung
and other companies which cant even match the Response time of either of these 2

if u decide to go by the digit and C**P reviews then forget it ... they are the worst
i saw a 30ms RT monitor get best buy silver
thats just laughable !
plz do urself a favour and get a samsung 713n with 8ms RT u wont regret it


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## mail2and (Oct 24, 2005)

theraven said:
			
		

> cuz CRT monitors offer very clear and crisp displays even tho lcd is gettin there
> also CRT monitors dont have ANY amount of ghosting
> or dead pixel problems
> and also have a larger viewing area !!
> ...



agree with him..

when i wanted to buy my lcd.. we researched a lot.. viewsonic has pretty solid models in the US but their models in India are not so good... 

so better stick with samsung...


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

ok dudes..

ordered 713N.. lets see.. will tell u about it..


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## khandu (Oct 24, 2005)

theraven said:
			
		

> cuz CRT monitors offer very clear and crisp displays even tho lcd is gettin there
> also CRT monitors dont have ANY amount of ghosting
> or dead pixel problems
> and also have a larger viewing area !!
> ...



u make it sound as if TFT is just not worth it.. CRT is much better.. 

but lemme see.. i wil waste my money.. nothin to upgrade in my PC


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## theraven (Oct 25, 2005)

lol .. no but those are the obvious advantages of crt's over LCD monitors !!!
its just the technology diff
LCD is prone to dead pixels .. doesnt mean its GOING TO have dead pixels
Response Time is a factor in LCD's which can be responsible for ghosting. ubt anything 16ms and below shouldnt cause it .. ur gettin one with an 8ms which is very good ( very good cuz viewsonic did come up with a 3ms monitor recently)
yet why samsunbg u ask ? again like i mentioned the other specs matter quite a bit !

advantages of LCD's ... they DO have crisper display .. but its kinda hard to explain what im talkin abt .. you'll see the diff im talkin abt once u work on an LCD
also is the ability for 16.7 million color display !
another is bulkiness ofcourse
also CRT's tend to STORE a lot of charge ( due to the capacitors), which can be dissipated throught the data cable too ( after a lot of years ofcourse ) ...and if u open without waiting for a couple of days to let it dissipate  then the voltage can be lethal in case of accident ( thats just a precautions .. ofcourse no one normal opens CRT's  )
and obviously LCD's look sleek n s**y

the disadvantage is the native resolution .. u can work ONLY AT THAT and cant change it !
normally for almost all 17" its 1280*1024

all in all .. im just gonna say  im dying to get that piece for myself ( or a 913n ) !! i think that should be sufficient


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## geekysage (Oct 25, 2005)

theraven said:
			
		

> lol .. no but those are the obvious advantages of crt's over LCD monitors !!!
> its just the technology diff


I second this. Having used all kinds of LCDs in the past few years, i can tell that CRTs still rule if you don't mind keeping a monster on your table. The picture quality difference is as evident as looking through a clear glass compared to looking through a thin film of gel. ( don't know if this makes any sense  )
I have worked on LCDs in laptops (dell latitude, then toshiba HDTV quality screen laptop, then a sucky toshiba tablet pc screen) and desktop LCDs (dell 17", 19", LG, HP and my latest baby, the cutest so far Dell 20.1" 2005fpw). So you better take it seriously when i say a sony, viewsonic 20-21" CRT would kick any LCD's ass, hands down! I personally hate keeping those bulky monsters on my table hence the attachment to LCDs.

Oh yeah, as somebody already mentioned, LCDs still have a lot of defects - ghosting, dead pixels, bad viewing angles, blacks looking kinda greyish, etc. etc. Gaming on an LCD sucks, not only because of the above problems but also because LCDs are limited by odd native resolutions (especially if you have a widescreen).

Still if the OP decides to buy an LCD, I'd recommend either Samsung or Dell (uses the same panel...most of the time).

Hopefully LCDs will improve with newer technologies like OLED (organic LED) panels, which are supposed to give a much wider array of colors, and prolly leave CRTs behind with time.


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## mail2and (Oct 25, 2005)

geekysage said:
			
		

> Still if the OP decides to buy an LCD, I'd recommend either Samsung or Dell (uses the same panel...most of the time).
> .



err.. dell in india? err...

Are you sure dell sells LCDs in India?


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## Keith Sebastian (Oct 25, 2005)

mail2and said:
			
		

> geekysage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, but they do bundle their LCD's with their desktop pc's in India. 

Keith


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## theraven (Oct 25, 2005)

yeah but it'll be hard to get as a single piece !
anyways 
i didnt say gamin SUCKS on LCD's
infact its quite pleasurable, 
ghosting effects are almost nullified with low RT's
the rest of the features arent exactly defects as its a "chance of defect"
as for the blacks looking grey .. ok those must be the low quality LCD's cuz the LCD's ive worked on are very clear and very faithful in color reproduction ! so if it looks grey .. it probably was grey 
since LCD's are capapble of dispaly of more colors than a CRT


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## khandu (Oct 25, 2005)

Thankx raven.. 


thats cools me off.. ive played games in RWW many places.. and found it nice on a TFT.. should get mine in 24-48 hrs..


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## Keith Sebastian (Oct 25, 2005)

theraven - "Black looks grey" problem can be reduced to a large extent by NOT sitting in a dark room.

Or, try my tested method (100% satisfaction gauranteed  ) - assuming you have a light colored wall behind your LCD and desk, and you have decided to sit in a darkened room, point a tablelamp towards the wall and switch it on. This should do the trick. Also, this arrangement is recommended to prevent eye strain.

Keith


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## blade_runner (Oct 25, 2005)

The black looks grey problem is due to the fact that the LCD uses Tn panel and is capable of display only 262k colors while the rest of the them are dithered. This is the shortcoming with most TN panel displays. 713n is a TN panel so its capable of displaying only 6bit colors. 

24bit = 8 bit = 16.7 million colours
18bit with dithering = 6 bit = 16.2 million colours
true 18bit = 6 bit = 262,144 colours

Anyways LCDs are good for reducing the strain on the eyes and the colors shudn't bother you if you arent looking for accurate color reproduction which is mostly needed in games.


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## Keith Sebastian (Oct 25, 2005)

blade_runner said:
			
		

> The black looks grey problem is due to the fact that the LCD uses Tn panel and is capable of display only 262k colors while the rest of the them are dithered.



I believe it occurs due to the fact that the backlight on a LCD is always on, and bit of it bleeds through. Whereas in a CRT, black is represented by doing nothing, i.e. the phophors don't light up at all. Hence black looks black. 

Low color depth doesn't have anything to do with "blacks looking grey". Didn't our 8k color monitors of the DOS era display perfect blacks?

Here's a better explanation from Techreport - 

 Contrast ratio - While brightness is definitely a strong suit for LCD monitors, their contrast ratios could use a little help. Since an LCD's backlight is always on (at least when the monitor itself is turned on), the display's liquid crystals must completely block light from the backlight in order to produce a true black. Unfortunately, few LCD monitors are up for the task, and many struggle to produce darker shades of other colors, as well.

_From - *techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/lcds/index.x?pg=1_

Keith


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## blade_runner (Oct 25, 2005)

Keith Sebastian said:
			
		

> blade_runner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well in the DOS era not many colors were used were they now . Dithering is the process where 





> Dithering is the attempt by a computer program to approximate a color from a mixture of other colors when the required color is not available. For example, dithering occurs when a color is specified for a Web page that a browser on a particular operating system can't support. The browser will then attempt to replace the requested color with an approximation composed of two or more other colors it can produce.


CRTs never have this problem so you wont see it on them. So when a different shade of black has to be displayed and since the lcd cant produce the exact shade native it dithers  resulting in the so called "black looking grey".


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## geekysage (Oct 25, 2005)

blade_runner and keith both have a point.

@keith: yep, i generally switch off lights in my room while watching alias/lost/movies, prolly that's why the black-to-gray transition looks more evident. I do know the work around you mentioned, but man, you can't really get involved and get the cinema theater experience when you have some other light bothering you in the background.

@theraven: sorry man, i have to differ from you here. blacks-looking-grey is not because of the quality of an LCD but rather coz of the way LCDs display image. It's a common problem with any LCD, google it and you'll know what i am talking about. Ofcourse, in my case the problem gets more evident coz i switch off lights while watching any video. As for the quality of LCDs i have used, dude, search around - dell 2005/2405fpw displays are the the current kings in every aspect. I also work ( watch movies  ) on my friend's iMac, which has the 20" widescreen, also supposed to be the best in display quality. BTW, dell 2005fpw and apple 20" LCDs both use the same LG.Phillips panel and i really don't notice much difference apart from the looks. Although, i do notice a significant difference when i work on my Toshiba lappy with 15.4" HDTV quality screen, but then that screen alone costs ~$700, disqualifying it from the comparison game.


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## theraven (Oct 25, 2005)

yup but read keith's first quote

... a few LCD's are upto the task ..
some LCD's are good enough to block all light
hence the problem isnt in ALL LCD's
it may ovvur over a period of time, due to a defect or cuz of the quality of the LCD

tho ofcourse i agree with keith and blades reasons more than my own after readin them


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## khandu (Oct 26, 2005)

Ok Guys i got the Samsung 713N 17" TFT Screen.. damn kool looks

Here is my comp

*img463.imageshack.us/img463/3637/picture0022if.th.jpg

Here is the screen

*img463.imageshack.us/img463/3293/picture0039xb.th.jpg

Although a small red dot it there at the end of the screen while i switch it on or something is loading.. when window comes  on or playing games... i cannot see it.. is it a defect or is it normal for a TFT???

*img463.imageshack.us/img463/4886/picture0045th.th.jpg


All games are running smooth.. my desktop has a lot of space now..and i dont see ne ghosts


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## theraven (Oct 26, 2005)

jesus H. christ !!
1600*1200 res !!! couldnt u just resize 
anyways lookc kick ass
and if u have a red dot there then get it replaced 
i dunno what the reason is since u say u cannot see it after windows loads !
normall that could be a dead pixel !


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## mail2and (Oct 26, 2005)

congratulations on ur purchase...


on a side note, 2 hathway connections?

i see 2 motorola sb5101 cable modems there


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## cvvikram (Oct 26, 2005)

Cool monitor...........


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## Keith Sebastian (Oct 26, 2005)

khandu said:
			
		

> Ok Guys i got the Samsung 713N 17" TFT Screen.. damn kool looks



Looking good. I'm expecting a full review from you soon. BTW, you need a new desk to do justice to your screen.  

The little red dot would have irritated the hell out of me. Go back and complain. Ask for a replacement. This time test it before you get it home.

Keith


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## geekysage (Oct 27, 2005)

theraven said:
			
		

> the rest of the features arent exactly defects as its a "chance of defect"





			
				khandu said:
			
		

> Although a small red dot it there at the end of the screen while i switch it on or something is loading.. when window comes on or playing games... i cannot see it.. is it a defect or is it normal for a TFT???



chance, huh? ....peace


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