# Will this serve as a good Surge Protector?



## saswat23 (Jun 4, 2013)

Voltage in my area is getting very low these days. And my UPS is unable to run on such low voltage. But if I switch on the PC through the mains, it works fine no matter how low the voltage is. 
The problem I am facing here is, sometimes my PC switches off automatically and upon restarting, it displays a message: 





> Power Supply Surges detected during previous Power On.
> Asus Anti-Surge was triggered to protect system from unstable power supply unit.


I think I need a surge protector to run my PC directly off the mains.
Thinking of getting this: *Buy Belkin Essential Series Surge Protector - Accessories - Infibeam.com* 
Should I go for it?


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## baiju (Jun 4, 2013)

Buy a line interactive UPS that can function from 140V to 270V on mains.


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## kARTechnology (Jun 4, 2013)

you got vguard ups or apc???

IN APC ups you can change the input voltage range..

well i am also in a problem. some say "whole house surge protection" works but "plug in surge protectors" do not work and* vice versa...*
I am also looking to buy a stabilizer/surge protector for my AV receiver and extremely confused....
does your lights/fans dim/slow because of low voltage?

and can you  elaborate "And sometimes I am getting Random Restarts and a message displays that PC was shutdown to protect it from surges. "
it wont say that it shutdown itself to protect itself from surges!!!


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## saswat23 (Jun 4, 2013)

kARTechnology said:


> you got vguard ups or apc???
> 
> IN APC ups you can change the input voltage range..



Saving up to get a 1KVA APC.



kARTechnology said:


> well i am also in a problem. some say "whole house surge protection" works but "plug in surge protectors" do not work and* vice versa...*
> I am also looking to buy a stabilizer/surge protector for my AV receiver and extremely confused....
> does your lights/fans dim/slow because of low voltage?



Yes, fans and lights dim/slow with such low voltage but my PC runs fine. I don't understand how!



kARTechnology said:


> and can you  elaborate "And sometimes I am getting Random Restarts and a message displays that PC was shutdown to protect it from surges. "
> it wont say that it shutdown itself to protect itself from surges!!!



Check the first post. 
Its Asus that displays the error message not windows.



baiju said:


> Buy a line interactive UPS that can function from 140V to 270V on mains.



I hope my current Zebronics UPS is also a Line Interactive UPS. It also has wide range of ~150V to 300V but still it doesn't work at such low voltages.


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## kARTechnology (Jun 4, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> Saving up to get a 1KVA APC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zebronics ups are a joke. 
Why dont you call a electrician and check the voltage with a volt meter
You can yourself buy one and it is fairly cheap( im not responsible if you are electrocuted. )
Just for conformation that at least apc ups will work or else you will feel sorry later no?


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## saswat23 (Jun 5, 2013)

That means except APC no other UPS of yours must be working at low voltages?
Is it so?


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## kARTechnology (Jun 5, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> That means except APC no other UPS of yours must be working at low voltages?
> Is it so?



I think even my old microtek ups worked I THINK. 
Any way my apc ups still has battery problems even after replacing battery 3 times


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## rijinpk1 (Jun 5, 2013)

V-guard is good and is much better than cheap ups's.


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## baiju (Jun 5, 2013)

My place has severe voltage fluctuations. The voltage can go down as low as 130V at times. I am using 1.2KVA LI UPS 'Supra' a Cochin based brand with a 40AH battery. It works from 140V. It is so powerful that now I use it as an inverter during load shedding to power TV, AVR, speaker system and lights. I just ordered a 1KV online UPS from Emerson and probably I may sell the Supra.


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## avinandan012 (Jun 5, 2013)

well most trustable brand's PSU are rated @120V-240V AC @ 50~60Hz. Most of them don't have range selector switches, so most are automatic. That's why they run in near 200V no problems. 



baiju said:


> I just ordered a *1KV online UPS from Emerson* and probably I may sell the Supra.


Any link please. Is Emerson good? What's the UPS config & cost. Thanks


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## baiju (Jun 5, 2013)

Many say that Emerson Liebert is better than APC. Their online models are suitable for use with amplifiers. A 1KV online with built-in battery costs 17.5K + 5% tax in Kerala. For extended backup, external battery models are available. In this case the ups is priced 16.5K+tax. They have LI models also.

Emerson Network Power


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## westom (Jun 5, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> Yes, fans and lights dim/slow with such low voltage but my PC runs fine. I don't understand how!


  All computers were required to work fine, happy, and normal even when incandescent bulbs dimmed to 40% intensity.  And that was for computers that only worked on 100 volt service, on 120 volt service, or only on 230 volt service.  (Zebronics numbers say it is only for 230 volt service.)  Portable computers were even more robust and flexible - a universal supply operates on any service from 85 to 265 volts.

  All electronics contain power supplies to convert an incoming voltage (on any service) to well over 300 volts.  And then create rock solid 3, 5, and 12 volts from that > 300 volts.  AC line variations are easily made irrelevant in all electronics.

  An Asus 'surge' message is not about AC line surges.  The word 'surge' applies to numerous anomalies that are completely different and unrelated.   The Asus message defined a low 3 or 5 volt DC voltage.  It says nothing about something completely different - a high volt surge on AC mains (thousands of volts), or an overloaded USB port (too many amps), or a sudden current demand on an electrolytic capacitor (amps per microsecond).   A surge protector and a UPS are two completely different devices for different anomalies often called a surge.

 A UPS has one function: temporary and 'dirty' power during an AC mains blackout or extreme brownout.   You did not have an AC mains surge (ie thousands of volts).  You had a near zero voltage called a blackout.  The word 'surge' is intentionally vague and misleading resulting in your initial confusion.


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## saswat23 (Jun 5, 2013)

You mean there is no point in getting that Belkin Surge Protector? Should I buy it or not then?


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## westom (Jun 6, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> You mean there is no point in getting that Belkin Surge Protector? Should I buy it or not then?


  You did not describe a 'surge' addressed by the Belkin.  You defined something completely different that happens to share a same name with at least three other and completely different anomalies.  You defined a near zero voltage 'surge'.   The Belkin is for a completely different 'surge'; a high voltage (thousands of volts).  Every number is critical.

  Apply these facts to your situation.  An Asus 'surge' has no relationship to a 'surge' addressed by the Belkin.  Read every volt number.  Numbers define two completely different anomalies that only share a common name.  Why purchase something for a 'thousands of volts' anomaly when the Asus complains about a 'near zero voltage' anomaly?

  Which anomaly are you trying to eliminate?  The word 'surge' is a subjective term.  Conclusions based in word association are misleading.  The generic word exists to confuse anyone who does not apply perspective; learn relevant numbers.


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## saswat23 (Jun 6, 2013)

So, that means for such zero volt surge I need UPS not this surge protector?


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## westom (Jun 6, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> So, that means for such zero volt surge I need UPS not this surge protector?


  A near zero voltage was detected on the motherboard.  What could have caused it?  A marginal (defective) power system (PSU is only one component of that system).  Marginal (defective) household wiring?  AC mains voltage that dropped so low that incandescent bulbs dimmed to less than 40% intensity?

  Nobody can answer your question without relevant hard facts and numbers.  We know the Asus reported what Asus calls a surge.To say more requires additional facts and numbers.

  Will a UPS solve a problem or only cure a symptom?  Some possible suspects (a checklist) summarized.


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## saswat23 (Jun 6, 2013)

I dont think its the problem with PSU coz I didnt face such problems till I used my PC with UPS. 
It might be due to the 2nd reason you gave coz voltage here drops down drastically during night when all switch on their ACs. 

So, what's the solution for this according to you?


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## westom (Jun 6, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> I dont think its the problem with PSU coz I didnt face such problems till I used my PC with UPS.
> It might be due to the 2nd reason you gave coz voltage here drops down drastically during night when all switch on their ACs.


  Some of the 'dirtiest' power comes from a UPS when it switches to batteries.  Cleanest power is when the UPS connects your computer directly to AC mains.

  A PSU in some computers use 'active PFC'.  If UPS power is very 'dirty', then 'active PFC' circuits get confused.  And power off the computer.

  How 'dirty' is your UPS?  If 'clean' then it will provide spec numbers such as %THD that define 'clean'.  Since many UPSes are actually quite 'dirty', then that key numeric specification (%THD) gets forgotten.  Many UPS manufacturers do not like to admit how 'dirty' their power really is.

 For the same reason, a UPS should not be used to power motorized appliances.  Electronics are so robust as to make 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant (in most cases).  That same 'dirty' power can be potentially harmful to motorized appliances (ie laser printer).


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## saswat23 (Jun 6, 2013)

Then which UPS brand provides clean power?


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## westom (Jun 6, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> Then which UPS brand provides clean power?


  They all make some with 'dirtier' power and some with 'cleaner' power.  However the term "pure sine wave" (a subjective claim) describes all 'clean' and 'dirty' UPSes. Because the claim is made without numbers. 

 There is no 'clean' UPS.  Just 'cleaner' ones that say so with manufacturer spec numbers (ie  %THD).

  Instead, start with an incandescent bulb on the UPS.  Does that bulb remain powered and with constant intensity when the computer powers off?  That implies 'dirty' power is still powering the bulb while 'confusing' the computer's PSU.  Only then do we have a useful fact.

 Also possible is a failing UPS battery or the UPS is undersized.

  Or maybe get a better PSU that is more robust.  If room bulbs dims to 50% intensity and the power supply shuts down, then the PSU was always defective.

 Also normal is for defective PSU to boot and run a computer for months.  And then cause strange and intermittent failures.  Only layman's tool that would have identified that defective PSU (when new) is a multimeter.  An inexpensive, powerful, and  simple tool.

  Again, assumptions are being made rather than first define the defect.  Numerous suspects were defined.  Blaming the UPS (or even a PSU) is only speculation until reasons (and numbers) define the defect.


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## saswat23 (Jun 6, 2013)

Actually my current Zeb. UPS is not working properly with my FSP APN 700 PSU i.e it gives backup hardly for 15 seconds. So, I will buy a new Modified Sine wave UPS like APC 800VA or 1KVA later. 
But what currently can I do now to stop such zero surges when I connect my PC directly to the mains?


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## saswat23 (Jul 6, 2013)

I bought the V-GUARD Sesto DX 600 UPS yesterday. But even after using the UPS I have got the same error message thrice now.





> Power Supply Surges detected during previous Power On.
> Asus Anti-Surge was triggered to protect system from unstable power supply unit.


I am using the UPS with the belkin surge protector too.

So, could anyone tell me what exactly the problem is? Is it my PSU?


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## kARTechnology (Jul 6, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> I bought the V-GUARD Sesto DX 600 UPS yesterday. But even after using the UPS I have got the same error message thrice now.
> I am using the UPS with the belkin surge protector too.
> 
> So, could anyone tell me what exactly the problem is? Is it my PSU?



you should never use a surge protector and a ups together like a chain...
use the ups OR the surge protector...

So try to swap the psu from someone...it MIGHT be the psu...since it gives error message even without using ups/surge protector


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## saswat23 (Jul 6, 2013)

With only the Surge Protector also it gives the same error message. I will try it w/o the Surge Protector with the UPS only.


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## satirthacool (Jul 7, 2013)

kARTechnology said:


> you should never use a surge protector and a ups together like a chain...
> use the ups OR the surge protector...



Can you explain why?


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## kARTechnology (Jul 8, 2013)

satirthacool said:


> Can you explain why?



Why can



> 3. A UPS uses extremely sensitive electrical components, which monitor incoming power and provide battery backup when necessary. Plugging a UPS into a surge protector will cause the UPS to receive pre-filtered power and will also cause MOV’s used in both a UPS and Surge protector to be in series, as discussed above this* will cause the MOV’s to malfunction*..
> 
> 4. Plugging a surge protector into a UPS to get additional outlets on the downstream side of the UPS is not acceptable. This will *overload the UPS and cause excess wear on the internal battery.*
> 
> 5. Extension cords are designed as ” temporary” power taps. They are not intended to be used on a daily basis and your local fire department will warn against this. We cannot suggest daily use and therefore we do not allow extension cords to be used in *conjunction with UPS's or power strips*.


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## insaneYLN (Jul 12, 2013)

kARTechnology said:


> Why can



*kARTechnology*, thank you very much for the informative link. It has alleviated one concern, but what about the vice versa? Is it advisable to connect a UPS into a surge protector?


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## whitestar_999 (Jul 12, 2013)

^^point no.3 above clearly states that *Plugging a UPS into a surge protector will cause the UPS to receive pre-filtered power and will also cause MOV’s used in both a UPS and Surge protector to be in series, as discussed above this will cause the MOV’s to malfunction*.


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## insaneYLN (Jul 17, 2013)

whitestar_999 said:


> ^^point no.3 above clearly states that *Plugging a UPS into a surge protector will cause the UPS to receive pre-filtered power and will also cause MOV’s used in both a UPS and Surge protector to be in series, as discussed above this will cause the MOV’s to malfunction*.



whitestar_999 and fellow members, I apologise for my stupid question. It is evident I superficially read the blog from _Evolution Electronics_.


After a thorough read, it is thus clear that one should never plug a surge protector into a UPS and vice versa.


Our residential town faces power cuts on a highly frequent basis, and I am concerned about my electronic devices such as a router and a couple of desktop external hard drives, switching off immediately as a consequence of interruptions with the electricity supply.
Is connecting the said devices directly to the UPS, the only possible remedy which would allow me to manually switch them off?


I await your expertise, as always.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jul 17, 2013)

insaneYLN said:


> whitestar_999 and fellow members, I apologise for my stupid question. It is evident I superficially read the blog from _Evolution Electronics_.
> 
> 
> After a thorough read, it is thus clear that one should never plug a surge protector into a UPS and vice versa.
> ...



Its the safest and (probably) cheapest way. Also, if there are frequest power cuts, the UPS may not get enough time to charge back. Do keep the ups plugged in the wall-outlet overnight to ensure that it stays charged.


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## insaneYLN (Aug 19, 2013)

Presently, I have an _iBall Nirantar UPS-621_ which has 3 sockets on its rear end, of which, one is taken up by the power cable connected to the monitor, and the other by the power cable connected to the PSU on the system unit. Thus, it leaves only one socket free to accommodate a router and a couple of desktop external hard drives.


Considering the fact that a general 650VA UPS has a maximum of 3 sockets on its rear end, is it apt to get an extension board (non surge protector) with multiple sockets, and connect it to one of the sockets on the rear end of a UPS?


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## insaneYLN (Aug 20, 2013)

insaneYLN said:


> Presently, I have an _iBall Nirantar UPS-621_ which has 3 sockets on its rear end, of which, one is taken up by the power cable connected to the monitor, and the other by the power cable connected to the PSU on the system unit. Thus, it leaves only one socket free to accommodate a router and a couple of desktop external hard drives.
> 
> 
> Considering the fact that a general 650VA UPS has a maximum of 3 sockets on its rear end, is it apt to get an extension board (non surge protector) with multiple sockets, and connect it to one of the sockets on the rear end of a UPS?



Friends,


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## saswat23 (Aug 21, 2013)

What I know is you shouldnt connect Surge Protector and UPS together in any combination. 
Moreover, UPS these days have inbuilt Surge Protector.


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## insaneYLN (Aug 21, 2013)

saswat23 said:


> What I know is you shouldnt connect Surge Protector and UPS together in any combination.
> Moreover, UPS these days have inbuilt Surge Protector.



I am looking to, and thus wondering if I can connect a simple extension board with multiple sockets, which is not a surge protector, to one of the sockets on the rear end of a UPS.


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## saswat23 (Aug 22, 2013)

No, dont do that. In that case you will surely overload your UPS.


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## baiju (Aug 22, 2013)

Just connecting an extension board is not going to overload the UPS. Connect only low power devices to the board to avoid overload.


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## kARTechnology (Aug 22, 2013)

baiju said:


> Just connecting an extension board is not going to overload the UPS. Connect only low power devices to the board to avoid overload.



yes you can do this...chargers,routers, inkjet printers...


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