# This Indian physicist disproved black holes 13 years before Hawking



## ico (Feb 5, 2014)

A new paper released late last month in which famed British physicist Stephen Hawking contradicts his own theory and says that Black Holes - in the real sense - do not actually exist has startled the world science community.

But Abhas Mitra, a theoretical physicist at the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) in Mumbai, is not at all surprised. "I said more than a decade ago that the Black Hole solutions found in Einstein's General Theory of Relativity actually correspond to zero mass and are never formed. This implies that the so-called Black Hole candidates must be Grey Holes or quasi-Black Holes," Mitra said, adding, "Hawking is saying the same thing now."


*Read more at: This Indian physicist disproved black holes 13 years before Hawking : Technology, News - India Today*


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## SaiyanGoku (Feb 5, 2014)

So all those documentaries and programs on Discovery channel natgeo, and history channel were lies? I thought black holes were like an inter-dimensional portal.


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## harshilsharma63 (Feb 5, 2014)

> ...Mitra said, adding, "Hawking is saying the same thing now."



Best part of the post


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## Flash (Feb 5, 2014)

So, what's next?
Wormholes?


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## kg11sgbg (Feb 5, 2014)

Luffy said:


> So all those documentaries and programs on Discovery channel natgeo, and history channel were lies? I thought black holes were like* an inter-dimensional portal*.


Me also thought exactly as you,Friend.

The moment/event one passes through the singularity,some other universe or dimension opens up......


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## Nanducob (Feb 5, 2014)

Ive seen docus on nat geo,never understood it


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## Vyom (Feb 5, 2014)

Theoretical Physics is termed as "theoretical" for a reason. Its because they can never be proved with 100% certainty.
All the scientists can do is to "speculate". And in this case it was a big speculation.

I too have grown up watching all those shows that showcased the possibility of Blackholes and stuff with great interest. But later when I came to realize that its all theoretical. Hence any change in the theories doesn't surprise me at all. 

There goes one more chance for the possibility of Time Travel.


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## pranav0091 (Feb 6, 2014)

Time travel (to the past, the one that you are interested in) is impossible if you are not to violate the law of mass-energy conervation.

That being said, nobody said the balck holes dont exist. What Hawking claims now is that the event horizon is not a rigid boundary as it was once thought. Thats more like an alien far away in the universe saying that earth exists but there is also an atmosphere around it so he was wrong to say that the earth had a hard boundary that separated it from "outer-space"

Regarding the Indian scientist, I'll have to read up :>

There seems to be a fundaental difference between what Mitra claims and what Hawking suggests. Mitras claims (atleast in that news article) point to a body with a surface thats infinitely collapsing but held back by radiation pressure. That is kind of like arguing that the earth's surface is an eternally collapsing surface held up by the nuclear/electrostatic forces that prevent the crushing of atoms. 

More interestingly though, Mitra's proposal would tyically lead to a better/more digestible theory of black holes and perhaps even explain the Hwaking radiation better, but igores the very important quantum effects. I know very little of this matter, but to my untrained eye it looks like the real deal would be closer to a superposition of both these theories - just like how its perfectly true that the throw of a stone can be explained via Newtonian mechanisc, but the quantum effects are also perpetually present, if you observe closely.


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## Hrishi (Feb 6, 2014)

Welcome to Theoretical Physics .!!!


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## srkmish (Feb 6, 2014)

if time travel to past were possible, we would have thousands of human visitors from future. the fact that there are none proves that its not possible


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## TheHumanBot (Feb 6, 2014)

^ so if census people come to count family members would they count those people who came from future time ?


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## nickzcool (Feb 6, 2014)

harshilsharma63 said:


> Best part of the post



+1 to this


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## sam_738844 (Feb 6, 2014)

Stephen Hawking’s new research: ‘There are no black holes’ | ExtremeTech


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## RohanM (Feb 9, 2014)

srkmish said:


> if time travel to past were possible, we would have thousands of human visitors from future. the fact that there are none proves that its not possible



May be they are visiting but not our present time.. they must be visiting ancient times to discover or change things..


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## pranav0091 (Feb 9, 2014)

RohanM said:


> May be they are visiting but not our present time.. they must be visiting ancient times to discover or change things..



They better have figured out a way around the law of conservation of mass-energy


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## kg11sgbg (Feb 9, 2014)

Not to forget the Grandfather Paradox and Butterfly Effect, if violation in law of conservation of mass-energy occurs,within the realms of Time travel.


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## Inceptionist (Feb 9, 2014)

srkmish said:


> if time travel to past were possible, we would have thousands of human visitors from future. the fact that there are none proves that its not possible



Perhaps we are not interesting enough for them.


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## icebags (Feb 9, 2014)

Inceptionist said:


> Perhaps we are not interesting enough for them.



future is infinite. atleast for the experiment sake they would have been here appearing, and reappearing. 

but in the real world nothing is absolute, like the existence of point( 0 dimension ) is only possible in theory, Mr Mitra stated existence of huge/infinite mass at a single point is also theoretical.


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## Inceptionist (Feb 9, 2014)

icebags said:


> future is infinite. atleast for the experiment sake they would have been here appearing, and reappearing.



I was talking about tourists coming en masse to the year 2014. 
Do you think people will travel to year 239 AD if time travel would have been a reality now?


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## bubusam13 (Feb 9, 2014)

if they could travel to past, they can also ravel to future. May be they are interested traveling to future. Ha ha


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## icebags (Feb 9, 2014)

Inceptionist said:


> I was talking about tourists coming en masse to the year 2014.
> Do you think people will travel to year 239 AD if time travel would have been a reality now?



yes, don't u want to witness the evolution humankind and julius caesar with ur own eyes ?! *l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/43.gif


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## rish1 (Feb 10, 2014)

Nobody can prove time travel exist or does not exist.. Science is still very very in its early stages..
We don't even have a damn clue about anything really, and who knows we might never will ever be.. Sure we do know a lot of things which can help us build things and make us more efficient.

we don't even know the most basic things about ourself like what is consciousness , soul ,  
and if quantum physics is right then how can we ever know about the universe, if the more we look and understand the more  the universe changes and is never static, ..

How can a mind solve a problem if the mind itself is creating the problem ? 

First we create a scientific theory ,  then we wait For the experiments to confirm it , then it is universally accepted and put in use and everyone starts believing it , then something else shows up and then another theory is formed rendering previous theories Useless ... and over and over again

looks like theoretical physicists are just a bunch of fairytale believers , that just gets famous.. 

we don't need them we need guys like tesla that can invent new things and does not bother with the theories...


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## pranav0091 (Feb 10, 2014)

rish said:


> Nobody can prove time travel exist or does not exist.. Science is still very very in its early stages..
> We don't even have a damn clue about anything really, and who knows we might never will ever be.. Sure we do know a lot of things which can help us build things and make us more efficient.
> 
> we don't even know the most basic things about ourself like what is consciousness , soul ,
> ...



Thats a ridiculous statement. Tesla was an engineer + physicist. Big fan of him, but I am not ready to diss theoretical physicists at the same time. 

When you diss "theoretical physicists" you are lokking down upon brilliant minds like Einstein, Newton, Neils Bohr, Feynman, Stephen Hawking, Wolfgang Pauli, Oppenheimer and pretty much the whole set of astrophysicists and nuclear physicists - That, my friend, is an outlandish claim to make.



bubusam13 said:


> if they could travel to past, they can also ravel to future. May be they are interested traveling to future. Ha ha



Travelling to the future is already possible, but not quite the way you think. Every astronaut lands on earth a tiny bit "in the future" as compared to the planet he left at takeoff. 

Travelling to the past, as it stands, is conclusively IMPOSSIBLE - without proving the mass-energy conservation principle as wrong (of finding a case where it doesnt apply).


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## ico (Feb 10, 2014)

rish said:


> looks like theoretical physicists are just a bunch of fairytale believers , that just gets famous..


damn.

False.


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## snap (Feb 10, 2014)

rish said:


> Nobody can prove time travel exist or does not exist.. Science is still very very in its early stages..
> We don't even have a damn clue about anything really, and who knows we might never will ever be.. Sure we do know a lot of things which can help us build things and make us more efficient.
> 
> we don't even know the most basic things about ourself like what is consciousness , soul ,
> ...



probably the most ridiculous statement in this thread


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## srkmish (Feb 10, 2014)

Inceptionist said:


> I was talking about tourists coming en masse to the year 2014.
> Do you think people will travel to year 239 AD if time travel would have been a reality now?



absolutely. who doesnt want to witness dinosaurs, cromagnon man, the whole  history of mankind as it unearthed. we could learn so so much ,much more than the history books teach us.


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## bubusam13 (Feb 10, 2014)

pranav0091 said:


> Travelling to the future is already possible, but not quite the way you think. Every astronaut lands on earth a tiny bit "in the future" as compared to the planet he left at takeoff.
> 
> Travelling to the past, as it stands, is conclusively IMPOSSIBLE - without proving the mass-energy conservation principle as wrong (of finding a case where it doesnt apply).



Thats an irony of a question. Anyway, these are all hypothesis, not theory.


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## rish1 (Feb 10, 2014)

pranav0091 said:


> Thats a ridiculous statement. Tesla was an engineer + physicist. Big fan of him, but I am not ready to diss theoretical physicists at the same time.
> 
> When you diss "theoretical physicists" you are lokking down upon brilliant minds like Einstein, Newton, Neils Bohr, Feynman, Stephen Hawking, Wolfgang Pauli, Oppenheimer and pretty much the whole set of astrophysicists and nuclear physicists - That, my friend, is an outlandish claim to make.



Lol 1 just can't get away with a statement like that.. i agree it was way over exaggerated and i was bummed about hearing black holes don't exist, i watched countless documentaries tried to understand black holes , became a believer and now it was just a bunch of lies.. wastage of time , money,resources  how annoying it is .. 



ico said:


> damn.
> 
> False.



True 



snap said:


> probably the most ridiculous statement in this thread



I agree


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## pranav0091 (Feb 10, 2014)

rish said:


> Lol 1 just can't get away with a statement like that.. i agree it was way over exaggerated and i was bummed about hearing black holes don't exist, i watched countless documentaries tried to understand black holes , became a believer and now it was just a bunch of lies.. wastage of time , money,resources  how annoying it is ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Black holes DO exist, if that helps you 

No kidding. Black holes do exist, the media is just a bunch of hyperactive idiots. the paper says the Event Horizon is not a HARD BOUNDARY, rather a gradual field. That in no way implies a black hole doesnt exist.

Quoting myslef from this thread 



> That being said, nobody said the balck holes dont exist. What Hawking claims now is that the event horizon is not a rigid boundary as it was once thought. Thats more like an alien far away in the universe saying that earth exists but there is also an atmosphere around it so he was wrong to say that the earth had a hard boundary that separated it from "outer-space"





bubusam13 said:


> Thats an irony of a question. Anyway, these are all hypothesis, not theory.



Nope. Thats (inability to travel to the past in time) the result of the currently accepted theories - these are not hypotheses, rather 'accepted as of today' results.


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## tkin (Feb 10, 2014)

Black holes do exist, Hawking just redefined it to match the theories, take a look here *medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/df0a131d7b95


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## Inceptionist (Feb 10, 2014)

icebags said:


> yes, don't u want to witness the evolution humankind and julius caesar with ur own eyes ?! *l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/43.gif





srkmish said:


> absolutely. who doesnt want to witness dinosaurs,  cromagnon man, the whole  history of mankind as it unearthed. we could  learn so so much ,much more than the history books teach us.




Ummm... the year 239 AD is not that far back. Humans in that time would be indistinguishable from us as we all are homo sapiens sapiens. Caesar would have died 300 years ago, dinosaurs for few million years. And you can't observe evolution over few decades or centuries. It takes thousands of years.

But you are proving my point, people would rather walk with dinosaurs than with people in 2014 AD.


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## srkmish (Feb 12, 2014)

Inceptionist said:


> Ummm... the year 239 AD is not that far back. Humans in that time would be indistinguishable from us as we all are homo sapiens sapiens. Caesar would have died 300 years ago, dinosaurs for few million years. And you can't observe evolution over few decades or centuries. It takes thousands of years.
> 
> But you are proving my point, people would rather walk with dinosaurs than with people in 2014 AD.



I am not talking about observing evolution. I am talking about the inexplicable instinct to know what really unearthed in the past, this hunger for knowing everything. How beautiful, how exotic, how terribly exciting it would be to see the glory of life at different stages of time. If this possibility doesn't get you excited, then donate ur time machine to someone more curious if you get it


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## Inceptionist (Feb 12, 2014)

srkmish said:


> I am not talking about observing evolution. I am talking about the inexplicable instinct to know what really unearthed in the past, this hunger for knowing everything. How beautiful, how exotic, how terribly exciting it would be to see the glory of life at different stages of time. If this possibility doesn't get you excited, then donate ur time machine to someone more curious if you get it



Hell no.
I'm going in the past and then I'm gonna take a ride on T-Rex.


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## pranav0091 (Feb 12, 2014)

Inceptionist said:


> Hell no.
> I'm going in the past and then I'm gonna take a ride on T-Rex.



Which TRex was a donkey ?


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## AcceleratorX (Apr 26, 2014)

I think we have hardly seen the last of this debate. We still have to see the statistical mechanical explanation and the chemical theory of these things (they will come sooner or later). Then, we can form a composite theory.

I am an engineer-physicist (sort of) and to be honest Engineering Physics generally does not bother with things like this. We are constrained to real systems and real situations, not to hypothetical assumptions. As such theoretical physics DOES play a huge part in engineering physics as well.  A lot of things in materials science, thermionic emission and phase transition phenomena were predicted first before any experiment was conducted to verify them, for example.

The whole branch of information theory (which seems to be a topic of interest for all you computer and Electronics Engineers) is a direct offshoot of statistical mechanics and thermodynamics. In fact, you can map any information system almost 1:1 to a thermodynamic system that uses statistical mechanics. In effect, communication was possible because of the efforts of the theoretical physicists, even though they would not have imagined such an application. So we have to give respect where it is due and we do need more theoretical scientists.


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