# Italian navy flag on ferrari



## Nanducob (Oct 27, 2012)

> Ferrari denies making a political statement having the Italian navy flag onits F1 cars
> 
> Marque says flag is there in hope Italy and India can settle a political dispute
> 
> ...



Aww we are getting offended !
source:Ferrari denies Italian navy flag on F1 cars is a political message - CNN.com


----------



## Renny (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

First of all your title is totally absurd, its Ferrari and their flag issues. Two innocent Indian fishermen (our countrymen FYI) were gunned down by trigger happy Italian sailors. We arrested them and prosecuted them and now Ferrari decides to put up their country's naval flag.

This is an insult against the dead sailors and WTF is the reason behind putting it up if not to send a political message? Keep politics the hell out of sports. Moreover Ferrari could have sported the flag in their own county, just don't pull this sort of crap in India.


----------



## ajaymailed (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

Why is ferrari, so eager to sport their national flag,


----------



## Faun (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

It's the navy flag.


----------



## Tech&ME (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

Wrong Thread TITLE

Please change it !! @OP


----------



## Vyom (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

What the heck is with the title of this thread!
Lol Nanducob ... and wtf the statement in first post suppose to signify? "Aww we are getting offended !"


----------



## Nipun (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *



Vyom said:


> and wtf the statement in first post suppose to signify? "Aww we are getting offended !"



Sarcasm?


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

strange. i thought people here would post a mahabharat on how indians "Over react" to "petty" things.good to know what is right and what is wrong 
i can understand putting a country's flag on an f1 car.but a country's navy flag?they sure do mean something by that


----------



## Nanducob (Oct 27, 2012)

*re:  Italian navy flag on ferrari *

Ive been seeing news like this for a long time,this time i wanted to share.
All i want to say is that we are taking silly things too seriously, at least for this time.let them protest with the flags,because we have jailed those who are responsible for those shootings.Ferrari has claimed that theyve put Japanese flags on cars,during the earthquake year.


----------



## ico (Oct 30, 2012)

Thread title changed. Next time give a proper title to a thread.

Coming to the topic, I don't care about the Italian Navy's flag on the car. I don't care even if it's not there.  Much ado about nothing.

I do care about the lives of the fishermen though. Perhaps Force India could do something?


----------



## Krow (Oct 30, 2012)

Yeah, those sailors shot at fishermen. Awwww we're getting offended? If your family members are killed, won't you feel offended by such a gesture?


----------



## Nanducob (Oct 30, 2012)

Its funny how people can find a small flag in a car and relate it some shooting.Call me dumb,coz even if someone told me that it was the italiian navy flag,i wont be able to relate it to the shootings,because those shootings were like 5-6 months ago,all the dust was settled(no offense to the dead) and is it the time to protest?Also theyre Italian and unlike India(where we buy plastic flags on august 15th and throw off to the roadsides when our patriotism has settled down,later) theyre free to put whatever they like.Maybe we' re little jealous about how other countries use their flags and we've  not seen enough flags on cars,so we tend to cry.Its the media who are making cliches about those different ways that we can 'get offended'.Last time when Oprah came here and asked if we(Indians) eat with our hands and then next moment weve got offended !Why ? Do we eat with our #%@*?
I dont 'always' want the media to tell me when i m getting offended.
So in this case my answer will be a 'no'.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 30, 2012)

ahm...
in any "offensive" case you have two options
i)retaliate
ii) ignore
our people choose the latter
anyways, who cares about some random dead fishermen eh?  . we should not dwell on things of the past 


Nanducob said:


> Its funny how people can find a small flag in a car and relate it some shooting.Call me dumb,coz even if someone told me that it was the italiian navy flag,i wont be able to relate it to the shootings,because those shootings were like 5-6 months ago,all the dust was settled(no offense to the dead) and is it the time to protest?Also theyre Italian and unlike India(where we buy plastic flags on august 15th and throw off to the roadsides when our patriotism has settled down,later) theyre free to put whatever they like*.Maybe we' re little jealous about how other countries use their flags and we've  not seen enough flags on cars,so we tend to cry.*Its the media who are making cliches about those different ways that we can 'get offended'.Last time when *Oprah came here and asked if we(Indians) eat with our hands* and then next moment weve got offended !Why ? Do we eat with our #%@*?
> I dont 'always' want the media to tell me when i m getting offended.
> So in this case my answer will be a 'no'.


jealous?we've not seen enough F1 cars of our own country let alone flags on cars 
the tone which she used must be like "do you indians wash your a$$ and eat with the same hand ewwww."


----------



## mastervk (Oct 30, 2012)

Nanducob said:


> Its funny how people can find a small flag in a car and relate it some shooting.Call me dumb,coz even if someone told me that it was the italiian navy flag,i wont be able to relate it to the shootings,because those shootings were like 5-6 months ago,all the dust was settled(no offense to the dead) and is it the time to protest?Also theyre Italian and unlike India(where we buy plastic flags on august 15th and throw off to the roadsides when our patriotism has settled down,later) theyre free to put whatever they like.Maybe we' re little jealous about how other countries use their flags and we've  not seen enough flags on cars,so we tend to cry.Its the media who are making cliches about those different ways that we can 'get offended'.Last time when Oprah came here and asked if we(Indians) eat with our hands and then next moment weve got offended !Why ? Do we eat with our #%@*?
> I dont 'always' want the media to tell me when i m getting offended.
> So in this case my answer will be a 'no'.



If you read the report Ferrari team has  told that they have put flags in support of 2 Italian marines imprisoned in India.


----------



## Flash (Oct 30, 2012)

> The Italian Foreign Minister Giulio Terzi welcomed the team's act. On Twitter he congratulated Ferrari on the initiative to carry the symbol of the Navy at the Grand Prix in India as this would show the sailors that the entire country is behind them. However, the Italian press called him the mastermind behind the event lobbied by politicians.



Ferrari mixes sport and politics against India - English pravda.ru
Surely, on purpose!


----------



## Skud (Oct 30, 2012)

Good to see, people are yet to post something against Sonia Gandhi relating to this. 

Has it been the other way around the European press would have gone wild. We should have lodged an official protest, even mildly, talking about influencing something sub judice or like. Even referring to Kashab and how neutral our judiciary system is would have been accepted.


----------



## aloodum (Oct 30, 2012)

I sometimes really wonder what is GOI's take on the whole matter..IIRC the Italian marines on the oil tanker mistook them for somali pirates..thats right..somali pirates in kerala!
... the poor boat was atleast 100m from the ship and it apart from the two victims who were steering the boat, all other fishermen were sleeping.
A warning shot is enough , shooting to kill is another. Im very sure the Ferrari boss was well aware of what went down there.This was simply a brazen display of political view.

The Indian F1 honchos should have least put faces of the dead fisherman on the giant LCDs/projection screens.


----------



## CyberKID (Oct 31, 2012)

What's the hue and cry over Ferrari using the Italian Navy's Flag on their cars? IMO, the culprits are being trialed, AFAIK, the kins of those dead have reached a settlement and have got huge compensation probably more than what the deceased could have earned in their lifetime.
Did anyone quit eating out in italian restaurants or Pizzas or pastas in protest of ITALIAN sailors killing Indian fishermen?
That was just an accidental incident that happened.


----------



## Skud (Oct 31, 2012)

CyberKID said:


> What's the hue and cry over Ferrari using the Italian Navy's Flag on their cars? IMO, the culprits are being trialed, AFAIK, the kins of those dead have reached a settlement and have got huge compensation probably more than what the deceased could have earned in their lifetime.



So according to you, killing innocents is OK as long as the compensation doled out is significant?



> Did anyone quit eating out in italian restaurants or Pizzas or pastas in protest of ITALIAN sailors killing Indian fishermen?



Why didn't Ferrari refrain from participating in Indian rally in protest of the trial?


Lastly, I hope if the Pakistan cricket team visited India and wear some logo/slogans supporting Kasab, Afzal Guru, or those militants killed in J&K etc. that will also be OK to you.


----------



## Flash (Oct 31, 2012)

@cyberkid: That's not the right way to show your support for them. This is about the nation's reputation in supporting their sailors in an unconventional/undesirable way. Compensations may fade in less than a year, but not the pain of the families, when they lost their own son/father.

If ferrari stayed away from the comment, on their Navy flag - this mess couldn't have happened.


----------



## vkl (Oct 31, 2012)

How big the compensation be it can't be compared to lives of people.

It doesn't matter what ferrari have on their cars.Coming to the ferrari's comments,maybe they have seen something which makes them think that their sailors were innocent.Let ferrari do what they want.They have done it in a peaceful way.What matters is how our judiciary handles the case.

Lives of fishermen and judiciary is way more important what luca de montezemolo has to say.
The thing which now matters is that there should be fair trial.If found guilty those sailors should be given severe punishment.
But our judiciary is pathetic.We know that from how Kasab case is being handled.Guilty people are not punished as severely as it should be.When was the last time a rapist and murderer was given death sentence?Take the case of Bandu Baburao Tidke.
Does the Government even care about a fisherman's live?I don't think so.When a celebrity dies every cabinet minister and PM shows condolence(not saying that it is wrong),but what about farmers and fishermen and others?At least they deserve a fair trial.


----------



## CyberKID (Oct 31, 2012)

Was expecting this.
It was not me who demanded compensation. The kins of those who died chose to settle in and demanded compensation from the Italian Government. It was not me who kept the compensation above innocent lives, but the kins of those dead in that unfortunate incident. I am the one against it (in most cases).
Also, I did mention that it was an accident and not intentional (As per media reports).

@ skud:


> So according to you, killing innocents is OK as long as the compensation doled out is significant?


I did maintain in the post that it was an accident (as per the media reports-I'm no insider into this incident).


> Why didn't Ferrari refrain from participating in Indian rally in protest of the trial?



It was Ferrari's job to participate in the GP.




> Lastly, I hope if the Pakistan cricket team visited India and wear some logo/slogans supporting Kasab, Afzal Guru, or those militants killed in J&K etc. that will also be OK to you.



Please read my post carefully before commenting on it. I maintained that it was an accident. I never supported killing/murdering people. Also, it depends, if the Pakistani Cricket team visiting India wearing logos supporting an innocent muslim man/boy killed/held for alleged involvement in some bomb blasts or killings, it'll be ok for me.

Things here are not that clear as we think. Most of the times, it is the media which is responsible for such reactions. Media, AFAIK, most of the times shows only one side of the coin. If you read the wikipedia article about that incident, and gave a rational thought, you would probably have a changed thought.
To an extent, the protest of Italians and Ferrari is also justifiable, as according to their law, 


> Quoted from Wikipedia Article:





> Italy also cited extra-territorial provisions of its laws to claim that the presence of military personnel deployed as VPD aboard the oil-tanker merchant vessel is governed by an Italian law conforming to U.N. anti-piracy resolutions, and hence such personnel are part of the Italian state and thus immune to the jurisdiction of foreign states.[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP]


[SUP]
So, according to Italian laws, the sailors are being illegally held here in India for an incident which according to them happened in International waters where Indian authorities didn't have any jurisdictional powers.
[/SUP]


----------



## Skud (Oct 31, 2012)

CyberKID said:


> Was expecting this.
> It was not me who demanded compensation. The kins of those who died chose to settle in and demanded compensation from the Italian Government. It was not me who kept the compensation above innocent lives, but the kins of those dead in that unfortunate incident. I am the one against it (in most cases).
> Also, I did mention that it was an accident and not intentional (As per media reports).
> 
> ...




OK, great. Even road mishaps are all accidents, so no need to prosecute the errant drivers.  And who is going to judge whether the act was intentional or not? Definitely a court of law as per my understanding which is currently what is happening. Let the law take its due course and time.



> It was Ferrari's job to participate in the GP.




And our job to react democratically whichever way we want. Don't see any problem with that.



> Things here are not that clear as we think. Most of the times, it is the media which is responsible for such reactions. Media, AFAIK, most of the times shows only one side of the coin. If you read the wikipedia article about that incident, and gave a rational thought, you would probably have a changed thought.
> To an extent, the protest of Italians and Ferrari is also justifiable, as according to their law,





> [SUP]
> So, according to Italian laws, the sailors are being illegally held here in India for an incident which according to them happened in International waters where Indian authorities didn't have any jurisdictional powers.
> [/SUP]




How come Italian law is valid on International Waters or India? Lets say I am in Italy and kill somebody, accidentally, will being an Indian give me immunity? I guess not. Even by that, the shooting was simply unjustified. But don't worry, we have seen the ending of Purulia arms drop case in West Bengal. The accused will go scot-free sooner or later.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 31, 2012)

> Lets say *I am in Italy and kill somebody, accidentally, will being an Indian give me immunity? I guess not*. Even by that, the shooting was simply unjustified


some comic relief to break the tension 
become a diplomat.you'll get immunity for sure

coming back to the point
how come people term deaths of unarmed poor fishermen as "accidents"
did the fishermen "fire" on them.no still they got shot?why? because the white-man thinks the brown-man's life does'nt have worth


----------



## Skud (Oct 31, 2012)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> some comic relief to break the tension
> become a diplomat.you'll get immunity for sure
> 
> coming back to the point
> ...




Point.


----------



## Flash (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes. There are no accidents!!
They've tried "Who is a perfect shooter" among themselves on those fishermen!


----------



## Nipun (Oct 31, 2012)

Gearbox said:


> Yes. There are no accidents!!
> They've tried "Who is a perfect shooter" among themselves on those fishermen!



Sarcasm?


----------



## Flash (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, Only the kung-fu panda line alone.
In my view, 2nd point is the most apt reason behind the shooting!


----------



## Nanducob (Oct 31, 2012)

Nipun said:


> Sarcasm?





Nipun said:


> Sarcasm?



I see youre having a hard time understanding sarcasms,in this thread(no sarkeasm intended !)


----------



## CyberKID (Nov 1, 2012)

Skud said:


> How come Italian law is valid on International Waters or India? Lets say I am in Italy and kill somebody, accidentally, will being an Indian give me immunity? I guess not. Even by that, the shooting was simply unjustified. But don't worry, we have seen the ending of Purulia arms drop case in West Bengal. The accused will go scot-free sooner or later.


Italian law is not valid on International waters or in India, it's applicable in Italy only and when someone is in Italy, he/she will think with Italian laws in mind, and that's what Ferrari did, I suppose.
As far as the shooting is concerned, Indian authorities don't even have concrete evidence against the Enrica Lexie or it's crew engaged in the accident, it's just based on the assumptions.


> In the aftermath of the incident, the Indian Coast Guard identified four possible ships (_Enrica Lexie, Kamome Victoria, the Giovanni and the Ocean Breeze) that could have been involved in the incident.[SUP][79][/SUP] All four ships were contacted by radio and asked if they were involved in a pirate attack. Only the Enrica Lexie responded positively and hence was asked by the Coast Guard to turn around and dock at Kochi.[SUP][79][/SUP] Several Italian sources reveal that another ship, the Greek tanker Olympic Flair, which reported an attempted pirate attack while docked 2.5 miles away from Kerala coast, was never contacted.[SUP][79][/SUP][SUP][80][/SUP]_


[SUP]So, this clears that it was totally based on deductive assumptions of the Indian Coast Guard. So, there's a possibility that these have been separate incidents with other one gone unreported. As far as killing intentionally, it is very much possible that the fishermen were mistaken as pirates and were killed intentionally. So, here the intention was not to kill innocent fishermen but to kill pirates. And there's no question of immunity over the killing, whether intentional or unintentional, as the Italian government as well as the navy have ordered a probe into the incident and have promised that if found guilty, the sailors will be trailed for murder.[/SUP]_[SUP]



			From the Hindu
		
Click to expand...

[/SUP]



There were people in Italy who wondered whether the judicial process against the marines was being deliberately delayed. “We know it is not and we respect the judicial process.” Whatever be the judicial verdict in India, the marines would be tried for murder in Italy. Mr. Mistura said the compensation paid to the families of the dead fishermen was purely a humanitarian gesture. It had no penal link. It was understandable that some people had this impression that the families were being sought to be bought. But that was totally untrue. There was also this impression that the Italians were like cowboys who just loved to shoot and did not care for fishermen. ‘This is also totally false.”

Click to expand...

_


----------



## Skud (Nov 1, 2012)

CyberKID said:


> Italian law is not valid on International waters or in India, it's applicable in Italy only and* when someone is in Italy, he/she will think with Italian laws in mind, and that's what Ferrari did, I suppose.*



Ferrari wasn't in Italy, they were in India. 



> And there's no question of immunity over the killing, whether intentional or unintentional, as the Italian government as well as the navy have ordered a probe into the incident and have promised that if found guilty, the sailors will be trailed for murder.



And that's what is going on. But Ferrari has already assumed they are innocent which may or may not be true. Are Ferrari using the navy flag in other GPs also? Not aware of. If they don't then this is definitely a political message and rather trying to influence something sub-judice.


----------



## navpreetsingh459 (Nov 1, 2012)

I just don't understand the gist of this thread; so complicated! And can anyone tell me the worth of putting Italian navy flag over Ferrari....I mean if it was country flag then again we can understand something but navy flag


----------

