# India: Which way should we go?



## Help~Is~Here (Jun 30, 2007)

We've all heard a lot and personally I've had enough!

Indian Development! Where are we going? The list of problems are endless! There are more shocking truths than reality itself! What are we all doing? We all just keep complaining about things and never do anything about it!

Like Prophet Muhammed(Peace be Upon Him) said, if you see something wrong, stop it with your hands, if you can't do that, then speak out against it, if you can't do that, then atleast feel bad about it in your heart, this is the least form of doing anything. So do what you can with your hands. 

No one bother to do anything about everything. If they see someone getting robbed, na,na.. it's not your business. If you see someone hurt in a accident.. No.. don't touch him. If you see someone being harassed, NO... you act like you didn't even see what was going on!

Forget even stopping evil with hands, no one has the time today to think bad about it in their heart!

This is just one of the problems in a million we face today. The purpose of this post is that we all can atleast speak out agianst things or at the least, feel bad about things than being lost in the world we are in.

So, my friends. What do you think India should do? List out a problem that you think exists and then post a solution for it. Please don't just post problems which we all know too well to do. So, tell everyone what we need to do about it as well!


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## gxsaurav (Jun 30, 2007)

We are indians & the condition of public in india isn't very good. We need money & not everyone is rich.

To make some money we need production.

For starters, Learn to give a damn about India, no one cares about the country anymore, everyone cares about filling there own pocket.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jun 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> We are indians & the condition of public in india isn't very good. We need money & not everyone is rich.
> 
> To make some money we need production.
> 
> For starters, Learn to give a damn about India, no one cares about the country anymore, everyone cares about filling there own pocket.


 

Dude! Like I said... STOP Complaining!! Give a solution to what you think is the problem.

Stop complaining like no one cares.. so why should I care? Show you care and give a damn about things.. so if you think there are problems.. list one by one.. or atleast one.. and then give a solution...

Don't let this statement repeat "Stop Complaining"


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## Josan (Jun 30, 2007)

Solution Is Simple ,just punish that damn right there ,at least i being a Punjabi  wont be able to stop myself from giving a heavy  beating to the culprit,Wat might happens!
At Least i Dont have to a Answer My self!!!!!


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## gxsaurav (Jun 30, 2007)

One Word : Communism + Democracy mixture. People have no discipline.


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## Quiz_Master (Jun 30, 2007)

I am feeling very angry today, so don't flame me much if I write anything wrong.

  India is going to the path of DOOM. You said list problems nd their solution. But buddy there are thousands problems and not a single effactive solution.
Everyone is currupt, including you and me.
  Yesterday my friend asked me that we should prepare a program for independence day in which we will talk about good things only India have. 
But I said - There is nothing special left  in India.
   Yoga wasn't much famous in India until american universities started to teach it. 
   When people of other countries are learning our music we are busy running behind the western POP. 

   All in all India has bypassed the point where a solution was possible. 
The truth is Now There is NO SOLUTION!!!
   Tell me one good thing India still have and I might change my mind.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jun 30, 2007)

I have to disagree on a few points here.

First of all. Stop saying things like.. I'm Punjabi and I'm Malyalee. Stop that! We are all Indians! That's the first point we are all missing out on. We need to understand that we have to work as a nation. We are all split up into the likes of our own community and majority of us don't seem to transcend those barriers.

I'm not so proud of India, but we all should bring the thought into our mind that 'I am an Indian'!

And also I have to disagree to the fact that there is no solution. The reason that there is no solution is because we all think that there is no solution. Like, Rocky says: It aint over till it's over! So now, we have to all stop GIVING UP on our nation and ourselves!

When we say India, we are the face of it and if we give up and say there is no solution! Then how in the world do you think India is going to look? If your nose gives up on you and decides to die of, how is your face going to look? (Noting Personal)

So, STOP GIVING UP!

We just need to take some time and reflect on things and then we'll find the problems and then we need to address those problems by tackling the root cause, not just by putting an end to that particular problem. Giving up is just another way of saying 'I don't give a damn about India'

Look people, I'm not so damn proud of what India has achieved, nor am I proud of where it is going. I have a whole list of Ideas and possible answers to it which tackle the root problem. But before I introduce those Ideas here, I have to see what others have and how they are going to take it.

So, sit up and take notice and give a solution to the problems.

Till now, as far as this thread goes, all we have seen is complaining and giving up and no answers, and that's not good! 



			
				Josan said:
			
		

> Solution Is Simple ,just punish that damn right there ,at least i being a Punjabi wont be able to stop myself from giving a heavy beating to the culprit,Wat might happens!
> At Least i Dont have to a Answer My self!!!!!


 
It is some kind of solution but we need a complete solution as to how in the world you are going to convince people to implement such a law!

And please, you are answerable for your actions. This thought of not being answerable is one of the root cause of many other problems!


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## cynosure (Jun 30, 2007)

India is surrounded by some of the most unstable nations of the world (Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Srilanka, Bhutan, Bangladesh). People (read rebels) from these nations come and screw up the life of our people. In addition to these we have some "very talented" people who can form an angry mob and rock any state which shows any slight show of what they call as indecency.
And govt is doing nothing. Give the orders of shoot-at-sight and see how those bustards dissapear in the thin air, this can add to the stability. But shuks!! This is democracy so that option is out of question.
And we have "fundamental rights" which arent of any use. Has anybody here used them?? I havent. Only read about them is class 8th and 9th. Never heard after that, and never used them too.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 1, 2007)

cynosure said:
			
		

> India is surrounded by some of the most unstable nations of the world (Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Srilanka, Bhutan, Bangladesh). People (read rebels) from these nations come and screw up the life of our people. In addition to these we have some "very talented" people who can form an angry mob and rock any state which shows any slight show of what they call as indecency.
> And govt is doing nothing. Give the orders of shoot-at-sight and see how those bustards dissapear in the thin air, this can add to the stability. But shuks!! This is democracy so that option is out of question.
> And we have "fundamental rights" which arent of any use. Has anybody here used them?? I havent. Only read about them is class 8th and 9th. Never heard after that, and never used them too.


 
Just shoot at sight is not a solution.. go deeper.. thing a bit more.. where can we nip the rose in the bud?

Because like we know.. the police is going to misuse the shoot at sight orders for other dogs that pay them by making it a "FAKE ENCOUNTER'. So, give a solution.. where.. it can be justified from all directions... and the root cause..


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## vasanth.kingofthehill (Jul 1, 2007)

@shoot thnx buddy for starting this thread.And god this democracy is failing apart jus look at the parties we hav to chose to vote from.The way DMK and congress win elections free Tv's and reservation to OBC jus makes me feel sick in my guts.Cos i know tat my tax money is being burned to make up for a stupid promise.Wat we need is a complete cleanup of our god damn parties.If u ask me a presidency(combination of democracy+communism) as gx said might help.Put up a temp government wit APJ as the head of the state.Cleanup the system lock up every politician there.Seize their property and then india would be richer by a few million.The thing wat i most h8 bout indians is we r really chillax bout the rules how many of us here hav gotten into colls thru the management route for one i hav.Doesn't it destroy the fundamentality of the entrance tests.WE need to implement the existins rules more strictly.If a police man is overweight fire him
. Why shud the public be expected to pay for a guy who can neither run nor catch criminals.Guys if we dont cease the situation now india will fail.
Brazil has been a developing country for more than 100 years now.And we know the reason exactly why india might fail(politicians).The way we defied the OBC quota implementation.Lets put up a fight every time and we might win




BTW....i know....iknow a very unstructured post dont hav much experience wit lenghty posts


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## karnivore (Jul 1, 2007)

*Help~Is~Here*

Why don't u give us a solution for a change. What say u about the following problems:

1. Overpopulation
2. Health 
3. Education
4. Bounty in one part, starvation in another.

I have kept the list short and hopefully sweet.


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## cynosure (Jul 1, 2007)

karnivore said:
			
		

> *Help~Is~Here*
> 
> Why don't u give us a solution for a change. What say u about the following problems:
> 
> ...



I can give it a try
1) Condoms + MorningAfterPills + Awareness
2) Nothing can be done except that govt. shows some advertisements etc. This is related to people's inner choice and attitude. If they dont exercise, let them die. 
Sanitation is must, We need more "Sulabh Sauchs" + more potable water. Govt. should keep a check on who the hell is wasting water, food. Fine them, jail them. At an individual level, I dont waste water and dont let my family waste it either
3) Schools are large in number. We need more staff/teacher which are talented and can do their job well. But we cant meet the requirements. Who can now work for a meagre 5-6K a month. Govt should provide perqs ranging from houses to something free. Like they have in IITs (But even IITs are short of teachers)
4)Whatever govt do, this wide gap cant be erased. Its only because of these huge salaries, theres a dip in the brain drain %age. More and more people now can work in country itself because they get a fat paycheck.

These are my opinios.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 1, 2007)

*Fix the roads & City bypass highways.* Every year thousands of tons of food material which comes from states like punjab & bihar is ruined due to improper or late delivery.

Keep a check on those toll booths, you should come & see the toll booths of Sitapur lucknow. Malihabad is the Mango Strip of India, however just due to improper tolling by corrupt policeman, some trucks stay idle on the station for 3 4 days.


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## dadhwalprince (Jul 1, 2007)

Solution is Simple : just complete ur work daily . no pending work should be there and do ur work with honesty and put only 100% efforts on ur work no need to put 101% efforts , but at last remember HONESTY


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## gxsaurav (Jul 1, 2007)

Does honesty pays me enough to buy an iPhone?

See, people want more then what they deserve, thats a natural tendency. Thats why i said communism + democracy.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 1, 2007)

karnivore said:
			
		

> *Help~Is~Here*
> 
> Why don't u give us a solution for a change. What say u about the following problems:
> 
> ...


 
Ok.

As far as the first point is concerned, you are just looking at what politicians have injected into our brains as a 'problem'. How in the world do you think that overpopulation is a problem?

Like in one of my other posts, if you are running something, people expect the best out of it, saying 'server overload' is no justification to cut down on something. And how people get the best out of it is upto the people who run it. If you can't run it properly, don't run it at all.

The point is, it's not a single person who is paying for all the people, it's whole big damn growning economy, and overpoplution seems like a problem because they dont' know how to support the people. When they mean 'over population', do you think they mean the beggers on the street? NO, they mean about you, me, your & my sister or brother. So, dont' think that they are referring to someone else when they mean overpopulation. They are referring to you and me. Are they saying you and me dont' have the right to bring up 3 or 4 or say 10 children like we please? Are you saying that the government is paying for the upcoming of this children, or are we as parents going to pay for their upcoming? So, where in the world is it a loss for the government?

It's a problem for the government because they simply don't have the people management skills. and they complain about people like you and me! Remember, china has more people than India, and don't tell me that has been a hinderance for their development! The people of a country are it's greatest assests, it will never be a problem unless they do illegal things!

The point is, there is simply NO knowledge how to control the people. That is where the problem is. 

NOW, keeping apart the rest of the problems, look at one thing. People management. Don't you think that can give a solution to rest of all the problems. What we need is a solid layer to manage the people of india. Does the Indian government know the names of all the people of India? Hell, it doesn't even know how many people it's got at this second! The government doesn't know who it's people are, what more could be worse?

The point again is, It would be a much better place, if the government knows each and every person, knows what they do for a living, knows where they live and knows all other relevant data.

So, my dream has been to develop such a system, which will also help in covering majority of all the other issues. So, before I put out my thoughts on that matter, in this digitized world, can anyone suggest a possible solution as to how can the government can know each of it's people and how it can keep their records. Lemme give a clue (something like social security number)


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## cynosure (Jul 1, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Ok.
> 
> As far as the first point is concerned, you are just looking at what politicians have injected into our brains as a 'problem'. *How in the world do you think that overpopulation is a problem?*



Overpopulation is INDEED a BIG problem. Look at the prices of every damn thing. They are rising. Right from food to Land to property. Just because of this ever increasing population, people have to live in flats, they have to buy the food which is going expensive day by day. Some people are raking moolah in the property business, but the number is quite less.



> Like in one of my other posts, if you are running something, people expect the best out of it, saying 'server overload' is no justification to cut down on something. And how people get the best out of it is upto the people who run it. If you can't run it properly, don't run it at all.



What would you prefer, electricity with an 8 hour power cut or no electricity at all. I would prefer the former.

The point is, it's not a single person who is paying for all the people, it's whole big damn growning economy, and overpoplution seems like a problem because they dont' know how to support the people. When they mean 'over population', *do you think they mean the beggers on the street?* 

Yes dude! They also include the beggers, as long as they are located in India.8)
Its only this population that they have to support, a common middle+ class man can support his family most of the time, but the fact is that these lower class people (rickshawpullers, masons, carpenters) are also in a need for support which they dont get.



> NO, they mean about you, me, your & my sister or brother. So, dont' think that they are referring to someone else when they mean overpopulation. They are referring to you and me. Are they saying you and me dont' have the right to bring up 3 or 4 or say 10 children like we please? Are you saying that the government is paying for the upcoming of this children, or are we as parents going to pay for their upcoming? So, where in the world is it a loss for the government?


This consequences cant be seen just in one generation. Your have 6 children, they will also have around 3-4 children(Given the fact this love for children is also in their blood), who also will be having 3-4 children. After 3-4 generation, you will have a whole "Help~is~Here" colony. This thing will result in increase in the number of cars, increase in the consumption of food and water, increase in the production of CO2. Dont you think so many children can be a strain on you and your monthly budget (God forbid that, you should be a millionaire)



> Remember, china has more people than India, and don't tell me that has been a hinderance for their development!


The whole china thing is total sh1t. Their population is old, ours is new. They have already implemented population control mechanisms. So the population that they have is the one which was born before these mechs were implemented. And they also face quite a problem, warna woh thodi population ko kam karte. India's rate of pop increase is more than that of china's. 
Look at this situation. In the villages here, there is a type of unemployment called the disguised unem. (see wikipedia for this) which results in decrease  of the overall production + increases the food consumption of the country. India is an agrarian economy, so the amount of food that these "extra" people eat could have been exported. But due to excess population, its not exported.

I dont have stamina to write more. 
Peace


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## karnivore (Jul 1, 2007)

@*cynosure*
You have said it all dude and left practically nothing for me to say  However let me make some minor points.



> saying *'server overload*' is no justification


 
A problem like that can be solved by adding capacity. But a country has its political limits and cannot add to its "capacity" i.e. landmass, just by a buying land. For that it will hav to wage a war.

Now population increase results in per-capita utilization of land which in turn results in utilization of arable land for building cities and towns and which in turn results in cleaning of forest land and you now the cascading effects. Price of land shoots up, farm land goes down resulting in decrease in agricultural production, environment gets a severe beating etc. etc.



> Are you saying that the *government is paying* for the upcoming of this children, or are we as parents going to pay for their upcoming? So, where in the world is it a loss for the government?


 
You accuse me of being brainwashed, but its clear that you just can't get out of your urban thought process. You only notice what we city slickers do but completely fail to notice where the economically disadvantaged people stand. They too need food, shelter, education, health care and all those amenities that you take for granted. How do you suppose they will get them. This is where Govt. spending is needed. 

Higher the population, higher the Govt. spending and less fund will be available for other developments.



> china has more people than India, and don't tell me that has been a hindrance for their development!


 
I am surprised that u haven't heard of China's 2 children policy. China recognized the perils of ever increasing population long time back and put this policy in place to check its population growth. In 2050, India, almost less than half the size of China, is slated to become the country with highest population.

U still think "population" is not a problem ??



> Lemme give a clue (something like social security number)


 
We already have a system in place. Its called Personal Account Number or PAN. U can apply to the Income Tax dept, and get a pan, or if u pay income tax for the first time, u will automatically be alloted a PAN.


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## faraaz (Jul 1, 2007)

Do what the west does...end of story.

As long as you have punkass moral police in the country trying to protect shame and dignity, you aren't going to ever control overpopulation...because they're all hypocrites who never got any in THEIR lives...and the get in the way of others helping with the problem.

As for all the rest...till the day Indian public is not controlled to prevent a LOT of things which we are talking about on the other threads in Fight CLub...kuch nahin hone wala.

And something else...the western countries are homogenous in their society, so its easy to come up with a one size fits all solution. In India, that's not happening...we have SO many different cultures and communities...getting them all to live together is still a pipedream...


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 1, 2007)

25% of India population is below poverty line. A person thinks about his country when he has food to eat and cloths to wear. People don't give a damn about over population all they need is food. Who will spread the awareness in a country whos population is 1,129,866,154 (July 2007 est.).
Government :- Whats That Thing. Never heard of it.   
OK seriously, why do u forget that we are the government. The people in that government is picked by us, if they are wrong that means we are wrong.(Which we are in any case.).

  Whenever we see a problem we say, its governments fault, why? Cause we are ashamed of admitting our mistakes. Its not government who give bribes, its us.  Remember how many times you bribed that traffic policeman or clerk of some office, no?
  They can do nothing if everyone stop to give bribes. They take bribe because we give them that.

    No one wants to live in this country anymore. I even you will go outta this country the moment you get a chance. Its not bad as in deep in your heart you know this country is falling apart.

   There are stages in Cancer. At one stage there is a cure possible. At second stage we can just try to increase the age of patient and a cure is possible to in some rare cases, but at last stage there is no cure or no hope.
We have reached that last stage.
     One we are suffering from not just one cancer, but Cancers like -Curruption, Overpopulation, Unemployment, Poverty and so one. 
Do u think there is a cure... NO!


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## cynosure (Jul 1, 2007)

^^ Nice say.



			
				Quiz_Master said:
			
		

> 25% of India population is below poverty line. A person thinks about his country when he has food to eat and cloths to wear. People don't give a damn about over population all they need is food.


Agree



> OK seriously, why do u forget that we are the government. The people in that government is picked by us, if they are wrong that means we are wrong.(Which we are in any case.).



Let me ask you one thing. For a common man like me (Well, I am not eligible for voting, let us consider that I am) there are two options::
1) Dont vote at all.
2) Vote for the candidate whom you think is the best.

Let us not consider the 1st point. Its lifeless afterall. 
But look at the second point. I know that the man whom I voted is corrupted, months after winning the election, he is zooming in Civic.
After 5 years I decide to vote for another person, he too gets away in Octavia.

What should I do now??? Anyone I vote, will get away in a brand new car which he purchased using the money of common people like me. The entire swarm of these people is corrupted. This is practicality, what you talked about was pure fantasy. 
No one can live for a measly 25K a month, especially when he knows that
he can get a huge chunk of the governments money. They want money, they will use more of impurities and less of tar in building roads, after all the govt. provides the money, not the raw material.
I have seen some "saansads" who ride across the town in nothing less than Pajeros and Prados. Some lower class minister rides City and Civic.
Its a men kill men eat men world out there. Stiff competition. You have a Civic, I will buy Accord, you get Pajero, I will get Land Rover.
Ever thought how Jayalalitha got 100crores to burn on her child's marriage?? From where the hell did she got the money??
Ever thought how Mayawati-who was a govt. school teacher- now has diamonds worth Rs. 56 Lacs??
These MLAs never return the Laptops and sometimes even cars given to them. They dont want Ambassadors but Sonatas. 
According to TOI (I dont have a hard copy), each second of RajyaSabha meeting-in which all MPs are present-cost 10 crore; Have you ever watched the DD-LokSabha channel?? They just talk bullshit over there. Anybody who talks sense is bullied and not allowed to talk, even our own Jaya Bacchan-along with her brother Amar Singh- were shouting @ Shivraj Patil who was trying to answer the question posed by some of the party members. 

Now you tell me whom should I vote!! I am damn confused.


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 2, 2007)

^^ I agree with your points. The people in authority are currupt, but you are forgetting they are not aliens, they are one of us. Its time we should start stop thinking like "me-me" and start "us - us". You say that every politician wan't to get as much money as he can in 5 years. Thats True. 
But even you and I will do the same like them. (Atleast I will ).
Not because we are bad but we are currupt. (which indirectly means we are bad)

   Its not that every politician is currupt but every Indian is currupt (there are exception, but there is one thing no one is 100% clean.). And thats the truth from which we can't run away.

  Someone said to me this - "If only 20% Indians start to do their work honestly and put their 100% in their work, India will be a developed country in no time." I agree to this but tell me in todays situation not even 1% population is honest in their work.


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## cynosure (Jul 2, 2007)

^^ Yes dude! Even if I see enough money lying in front of me, I will take it. Thats the human tendancy.
Thats why I wont go into politics Thats my step for a little less corruption


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 2, 2007)

@ cynosure, you have misqouted me! When I meant, run it properly, or not run it at all. You took it literally. What I meant was that if you are running something, people expect the best out of it, so run it properly which means 24hrs electricity!

One thing we all should remeber is that, NOTING IS IMPOSSIBLE! So, please guys, stop giving up. We have given up on our own country all these years and it's high time that atleast we give some thought to it than giving up and blaming others.

Again, nothing is impossible has another meaning to it as well. When you mean population is a problem, you are just looking at it a short term perspective, it shows the laziness that we don't even want to give a try at eradicating things! If you put your mind and heart to a viable solution, population isn't a problem at all! The point is, we have to get the people to be self dependent!

Oh, yes, I have certainly heard about the 2 child policy in china and I've seen for myself the artocities that they have commited to decrease the poplutation. Dude, I've been in several countries for more than you can imagine, and the reason I started this thread is very evident in the replies itself! The lack of heart and soul to work! We all want things to adjust to our liking rather than try to work with what we actually have to! Lemme ask you something dude, china has the policy of 2 children, and they have killed millions of innocent people to reduce the population! yes, the government run homicide campaign! And to what extent have they succeeded? Has the coutry dropped from it's place of highest in population? NO!! Listen, no matter what you do, it's a human being's right to have any no. of children as he may please and anyone trying to obstruct that creates a basic violation of Human Rights!

The point is, we just keep on saying, reduce this, reduce that and then work towards it! Why? why can't you work with the real problem and have a viable solution? Because we are all lazy and we all think we are RIGHT!

Dude, as far as the PAN card or an Indian Passport or even a Voter ID or atleast a driving license is concerned. These are all ways in which the government knows it's people but the simple and most appauling point is that All these forms of identification is not Voluntary!! It's your choice whether you want to have such an identification or not! Is the police going to catch you if you don't take a PAN card? or if you don't have a passport or a DL? Talk some sense dude! We all need a voluntary ID. Which means every single person in India is supposed to have a unified voluntary ID which is supposed to be taken by each and every Indian. In that way, you can clearly identify the people who don't want to be a part of healthy India (Terrorists/Undrworld). Recently in the north, the government has launched this intiative and i'm quite sure, the people itself wouldn't understand it's value and throw it into the dark.

The point again is, we are not asking ourselves the questions, we are not probing deep enough to find the issue. Few of them suggest the 3 'why' principle, but we need more no. of 'whys' to find the root cause. Lemme give you an example.

> You say population is an issue - Why?
Because most of them are under the poverty line which means lot more people will be consuming subsidies from the government.

> Why are people under the poverty line - Why?
Because of lack of jobs and education.

> Why is there a lack of jobs? - Why?
Because of the lack of oppurtunity the government has created in opening up jobs in lot of sectors

> Why has the government not opened up opportunity - Why?
Because most of the jobs are with private players and they hire from their own workforce which they know.

> Why do they not hire from the people in real need of jobs - Why?
Because, no one knows who these people are and what they do or where they live.

> Why does no one know about this? - Why?
Because the government has not bothered to bring in the voluntary ID system which tracks each and every person, his employment status and other relevant details.

> Why hasn't the government installed such a system when India is at the forefront of software technology? - Why?
Because the ministers haven't put enought thought to things and just try to follow on with the old ideas and just end up throwing a whole lot of money to people which just finishes of within a second. Or maybe the government hasn't asked themselves these why questions.

> Why hasn't the government asked these why question? - Why?
Because of corruption and unaccountability.

> Why have the government been corrupt and unaccountable - Why?
Because of the simple fact that there is no such stringent monitoring system which generates reports of money taken, where it was spent, where is the rest of the money and what work has been completed.

> Why hasn't there been such a system - Why?
Because, the people who already exists in the monitoring system are corrupt themselves and the police can do little about it.

> Why can't the police do anything about it? - Why?
Becaue they dont' have access to any data other than through an enquiry where data is provided to them by the corrupt politicians themselves and the police again themselves dance to the tunes of corrupt politicians.

> Why can't the police be independent of such things? - Why?
Because, if you try to be independent and fight against these politicians, you get terminated or transferred.

> Why do they get transferred without knowledge and why can't anyone stop it? -Why?
Because again, there is no monitoring system to keep a check on the discrepencies in finances of every indian citizen including the police and politicians and they can't identify where the discripencies started and also there is no reporting system as to why the police personell was transferred or terminated and with whose consent and whose approval and the proof of the allegation.

> AGAIN, why isn't there such a reporting system? Why?
Because, of the simple fact that there is no permenant ID tracker or centralised database of info which can have one's name, profession, location, skills, Bank transaction details, Tax information, expenditure info, travel info, fingerprints, retina print and other relevant details although there is an overflow of software talent in India which is being sold to other countried for their e-governance!


Guys, you can go on asking why to each and every problem you see in society till you reach the root cause of the problem. People with understanding and knowledge will understand where I'm going!

Dont' just say, do this and everything will be fine. Remember, for everything, there is something behind it, so find the source and sort the issue there, then everything will fall in track.

And one more thing! Stop dividing our Country! The people who think that we are all different and cannot have the same legislation is absolutely and appaulingly wrong! or they maybe living in a dark age! Our culture is diverse and we can all be under the same umbrella once we realise that we are all Inidans and not bangalorean, or mumbaite or malayali or delhite OR muslim and Hindu for that matter.

Who ever thought that culture in other countries were all the same is wrong!

My hands are paining.. can't type anymore.. sorry for such a long thread!


----------



## Pravas (Jul 2, 2007)

I agree with the above Person. But one thing keep in mind....there are many people out there 





> whom you cant motivate


.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 2, 2007)

Pravas said:
			
		

> I agree with the above Person. But one thing keep in mind....there are many people out there .


 
I also agree with the point that there are many people out there that you can't motivate. The reason. Our leaders aren't motivating enough! A leader is supposed to motivate it's people and he should have the ability to bring confidence and high motivation in the society rather than giving speeches of promises and complaining what the previous government did to ruin the country to get votes!

We need knowledgeble professionals as ministers who can rule the country, not people who have failed in 6th and 7th Class! These are uneducated people, and how do you think that they can educate the rest!

We need people who are masters in their profession, economists, engineers, transport management degree holders, social servents, learnt professionals.

And we are not going to get such people unless the educated themselves take the plunge into politics, otherwise the son's of the uneducated are going to keep ruling india till it's DONE for ever!


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## karnivore (Jul 2, 2007)

*@ Help~Is~Here*

Quite an entertaining post, but unfortunately it is, for the most part, an infantile reverie. Anyway, let me sum up your post in a nutshell, since answering to all your "why"s will make this post infinitely long. And also your sequence of "why"s is extremely simplistic, to say the least. Now, I understand that you have made the following proposals.

1. Govt. should be more proactive in creating jobs and not whine about population.

2. Govt. should have a detailed database system so it can track down its own population

3. Only professionals, good, bad or ugly should become politician and be elected to public office.

Here's my piece of mind on the above proposals.

1. Yes govt. should be proactive but not in creating jobs, but in providing civic amenities, like health, education, shelter, food, water, sewerage, etc. with the underprivileged in mind. Govt tried to play its role of "job provider" for 40 yrs from 1947 to 1991 and we all know it only bred mediocrity and nepotism in gigantic proportions and broke the back bone of this country. We don't want that to happen again, do we.

To understand what happens when Govt tries to be a job provider just take a look at the erstwhile communist Europe, and you will realize what i mean. These days the Govt. all around the world are moving towards the minimalist role and u want to take 10 steps backward, into the self-destructive economics of "subsidy".

And if u keep saying the "population" is an excuse, well......i give up.

2. Are u out of your educated mind ??? You want the Govt. to stalk on you. When it comes from a "globetrotter" it actually makes u sit up and wonder, how big is this world anyway. Is it the size of a well. Anyway, its obvious that u neither understand or appreciate or respect "privacy". A generation of people died fighting for freedom and privacy and here we are advocating sleepwalking back to the middle ages.

Apart from the fact that such a system of tracking, in a country like India is not only logically and physically impossible but also a financial waste, i still fail to see how it will help the poorest of the poor to have a mouthful twice daily.

3. It looks good on pen and paper, but being professionally successful in ones domain does not mean he understands politics. Politics is a different ball game altogether. Our PM is probably the most educated one in the world today, but his political career is not worth mentioning. It is important for the common man to identify oneself with the person they are voting for and to them academic qualification is just a piece of paper.

By the way, when r u joining politics. Cause u know, they say "charity begins at home".


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 2, 2007)

karnivore said:
			
		

> *@ Help~Is~Here*
> 
> Quite an entertaining post, but unfortunately it is, for the most part, an infantile reverie. Anyway, let me sum up your post in a nutshell, since answering to all your "why"s will make this post infinitely long. And also your sequence of "why"s is extremely simplistic, to say the least. Now, I understand that you have made the following proposals.
> 
> ...


 
Like you said, 'you still fail to see'

First of all, you seem to one of those who discourage anything that could benefit the country and have the pseudo fact injected into your brain that "It will not work". Wake up dude, nothing has worked till now and if you carry on with what is happening, then nothing is going to work, unless you think fresh and have new ways of innovating, then I'm sorry to say that you are in the dark age and like everyother politician keep saying "It's a waste and won't work"

I will make one thing clear, I personally defend a lot about privacy and freedom, but like I said before, hope you are not in the north, then you will mock the effort of the government in this aspect of centralised database!

Dude, when I mean an ID, you don't need to have all the private information of the person and stalk on him. Here is where you have to draw the line between privacy and governance. The government first of all has the right to know who what where you are. Secondly, like you said again, you fail to see how it will help the poor. That's because you are short sighted!

I agree on the fact that the government has failed to act as an efficient job provider and that is exactly the whole point of the last post. What I emphasized was the reason! Why in the world do you think that private companies create more employment(although partial) than the governent? That's because private companies do things differently than what the government does. The whole point is changing what the government does so that it can work the most efficient way!

And talking about education and politics. Dude, India possibly has the highest no. of educated people per sq km. in the world and why do you think we are lacking so much? Because we don't have the application! So, just educated people in politics is not going to make a difference. like I said we need "professionals". If you have education and NO application, then you are useless in anything, not just politics. So rather than looking at what my words literally mean, look at what it actually implies, because like you said, 'it looks good on paper', that's probably because you are taking it literlally!

Dude, if you really want me to put out the nitty gritty details of what I mean by a compulsary ID and a database and how its going to help the poor, rich, police and government, then ask me, I'll probably send you a soft copy of it because the idea is just too large to put down here.

And yes, I'll join politics the day I see a group of professional who has the determination and motivation to bring about change, growth and peace with their heart, mind and soul to make this country prosper!


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 2, 2007)

@Help~Is~Here

Dude you seriously need to study geography.
India has a total land of area 3,287,590 SQ KM whereas China has 9,596,960 SQ KM. You can see chine is 3 times larger then India. They have enough land to support the population.
  But in India from where you get the land.
   There was a quote of Lex Luthar in movie Superman Returns :- "You can get every thing from money except Land. Land can not be created."

Imagin what will happen if indias population becomes twice then todays population.
You seen the rush in metros and big cities (now its in small town too), just imagin what will happen then.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 2, 2007)

Quiz_Master said:
			
		

> @Help~Is~Here
> 
> Dude you seriously need to study geography.
> India has a total land of area 3,287,590 SQ KM whereas China has 9,596,960 SQ KM. You can see chine is 3 times larger then India. They have enough land to support the population.
> ...


 
Dude! maybe you need to study Indian Geography and not China's. Dude, maybe you also need to leave your town/city and see what India really is. Like I said, I've travelled and observed & analysed more than you can think.

Do you know why I'm saying all this? Because you can see that there is a huge underutilization of Land in India, It's just the cities and popular towns that are bursting at the seems, why? because of the simple fact that there are not expanding and just trying to build up on any small space they find as close to the city center as possible. Dude, the best thing is google earth, use it and see, you can see how much of land is being wasted in India where there is no forest, no desert or no farms! and look at other countries, you can see how well organised and spread out the cities and towns are!

So go use Google earth and study Indian Geography and travel more often (In a car)

In Google earth, use the ruler functionality to find out the distance from one point to the other.


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## karnivore (Jul 2, 2007)

> you seem to one of those who *discourage anything* that could benefit the country and have the *pseudo fact* injected into your brain that "It will not work".


 
What makes u think that. Oh just because i rebutted your childish proposals, i am a pessimist. If thats the wave length, your brain works at, you should stop debating in the first place.
"Pseudo fact" ??? What pseudo fact ??? Tell me which "fact" was pseudo. Does not seem you hav any clue as to our economic and political history.



> ...I said before, hope you are not in the north, then you will mock the effort of the government in this aspect of centralized database


 
Yes of course i do. Have u ever been to the North, hav u experienced the mindless police atrocities there. Don't make ignorant comments like that without knowing the facts. Women are being brutally raped in the name of questioning, youth are being brutally tortured routinely, just because they are "young". Come out of your fuking soap bubble and visit North. You will change in one single day. Believe me. I have. You will get first hand experience of "State Terror".



> The government first of all has *the right to know* who what where you are.


 
Who the fuk told u that. Which law gives that right to the Gov. Other than identifying me as legal citizen of this country, the Gov does not hav any right to know, what and where i am. U r reminding me of East Germany. When the communism came to an end there, it was discovered that the Stazi had recruited 1/3 rd of the population to spy on the remaining 2/3 rd. I shudder to think of a situation like that.



> ...when I mean an ID, you don't need to have all the private information of the person and stalk on him.


 
One more evidence of not thinking before writing. This is what u wrote in your prev post.


> there is no permanent ID tracker or centralized database of info which can have one's name, *profession, location, skills, Bank transaction details, Tax information, expenditure info, travel info, fingerprints, retina print* and other relevant details


 
If this is not stalking then what is ????????



> ......*compulsary ID* and a database


 
Which country do u live in. Don't u have Voter's ID and/or Ration Card. Aren't these enough. U want one more card. By the way u seemed to be utterly confused. This is your comment from other post.



> All these forms of identification is *not Voluntary*!! It's your choice whether you want to have such an identification or not! Is the police going to catch you if you don't take a PAN card? or if you don't have a passport or a DL? Talk some sense dude! We all *need a voluntary ID*. Which means every single person in India is supposed to have a unified voluntary ID which is supposed to be taken by each and every Indian. In that way, you can clearly identify the people who don't want to be a part of healthy India (Terrorists/Undrworld).


 
PAN is to some extent voluntary. U can hav it even if u r not paying taxes. 

U know in Hitler's Germany the Jews were made to wear an arm band so that they could be easily identified. In North Korea people are made to wear 3 types of bands, although small in size, so that their position in the party can be easily identified. What u r proposing is just a step short of these discriminatory systems.

AND ONCE AGAIN, HOW IN THE HELL IS THIS ID GOING TO HELP THIS COUNTRY IN SOLVING ITS PROBLEMS. Seriously. HOW ??????



> And yes, I'll join politics the day I see a group of professional who has the determination and motivation to bring about change, growth and peace with their heart, mind and soul to make this country prosper


 
Hmmmm......same old, same old. Long talks, no deliverance.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 2, 2007)

karnivore said:
			
		

> What makes u think that. Oh just because i rebutted your childish proposals, i am a pessimist. If thats the wave length, your brain works at, you should stop debating in the first place.
> "Pseudo fact" ??? What pseudo fact ??? Tell me which "fact" was pseudo. Does not seem you hav any clue as to our economic and political history.
> 
> Yes of course i do. Have u ever been to the North, hav u experienced the mindless police atrocities there. Don't make ignorant comments like that without knowing the facts. Women are being brutally raped in the name of questioning, youth are being brutally tortured routinely, just because they are "young". Come out of your fuking soap bubble and visit North. You will change in one single day. Believe me. I have. You will get first hand experience of "State Terror".
> ...


 

Hahaha.. you are just one of those angry red whitsle blowing heads. All you know to do is misquote everything I said. You don't need to teach me Indian History. I guess it's you who need to learn it, because you seem to know more about German and other European History than you know Indian. Dude, you don't need to tell me what terror is and whether or not I've experienced it. I know of what you don't when you think you know everything.

If you know everything, then why don't you yourself post your suggestions and ideas and solutions to things? I guess that's simply because you don't know anything else other than venting out your anger in a non constructive manner!!

Dude, this is a forum to express your views, if you are not happy with what other's say, you don't need to be so unprofessional and act like a jerk! You are just one of those jerks who misuse the freedom and call the unprofessional and appauling things you do 'Democracy'!

And you think that you know everything and that is where you are wrong! Because, Since you see my location as bangalore, you think I haven't been in the North. Wake up from your thought bubble jerk! Like I said in all my other posts, I've travelled more than what your grandfathers combined together have, and I didn't travel for the fun of it, it was all for research and documentation of the appauling conditions and yet you think you know everything! You are such a loooser!!!

DIGIT, please take of people who use such profanity on the forums and who have no professionalism at all!


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## karnivore (Jul 2, 2007)

> ....*misquote* everything I said


 
Hmmmm........sample please.



> You *don't need to teach me Indian History*. I guess it's you who need to learn it, because you seem to know more about German and other European History than you know Indian. Dude, you don't need to tell me what terror and whether or not I've experienced it. *I know of what you don't when you think you know everything.
> *


 
.............Whatever. But to quote George Orwell - "Ignorance is strength"



> ......then why don't you yourself post your suggestions and ideas and solutions to things?


 
We are on the right track. Its just that we need to do it more sensibly. Make sure the excess is not wasted, like thousands of tonnes of wheat rotting in FCCI godown, while another part of this country facing severe drought. Lots still remain to be done, but hey, we hav just started to be part of the world order and its been only 17 years. We hav to undo our mistakes of 40 yrs of bullcrap Socialism. Already we are having over 200 bill USD reserve [we had less that 5 bill USD in 1990, which actually prompted MMS to open out economy in the first place] a healthy growth rate of about 9 %, steady rise in per capita income. But sadly, there are farmers committing suicide, areas facing drought and these are precisely what need to be addressed urgently. Have a soft loan/credit system in place, build cold storages, have a proper public distribution system etc. Have medical facilities in the remotest part of this country, education facilities, easy access to drinking water, proper sewerage system. We need to build more roads and highways, need pollution free energy.

Listen i can go on and on and on. There's no end of it. However your stupid ID is not one in the priority list.



> DIGIT, please take of people who use such *profanity* on the forums


 
How old r u. OK don't tell me. I can make a guess.


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 3, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Hahaha.. you are just one of those angry red whitsle blowing heads. All you know to do is misquote everything I said. You don't need to teach me Indian History. I guess it's you who need to learn it, because you seem to know more about German and other European History than you know Indian. Dude, you don't need to tell me what terror is and whether or not I've experienced it. I know of what you don't when you think you know everything.



  Well actually you seem very confused to me. In one post you say something and in other something else. You need to live in a town to know what terror is... Here is no police... Gali ke gunde hi uda daalte hain.
Last year someone shot a rikshaw driver in front of my house, no one could do anything. Thats what terror is...



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Dude, this is a forum to express your views, if you are not happy with what other's say, you don't need to be so unprofessional and act like a jerk! You are just one of those jerks who misuse the freedom and call the unprofessional and appauling things you do 'Democracy'!


He is just shareing his views. He said nothing offending I think. Dont take it on heart. 
He is countering what you said doesn't mean he unprofessional.



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> And you think that you know everything and that is where you are wrong! Because, Since you see my location as bangalore, you think I haven't been in the North. Wake up from your thought bubble jerk! Like I said in all my other posts, I've travelled more than what your *grandfathers combined together have*, and I didn't travel for the fun of it, it was all for research and documentation of the appauling conditions and yet you think you know everything! You are such a loooser!!!



Now here you are being unproffesional. Shamelessly declareing that you seen more and know more proves nothing. Give solid facts. 
 And think twice before you write.



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> DIGIT, please take of people who use such profanity on the forums and who have no professionalism at all!


ahhh... proffesionalism!!! Take some air....


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## karnivore (Jul 3, 2007)

> ......I've travelled more than what your *grandfathers combined together have.....*



HA HA HA.     Actually he has run out of logic and can see the futility of his proposals. So he chose that age old defense, generally known to us as “snobbery”. NAH am not taking umbrage of this *kids* “*professionalism*”. What more can u expect from a kid, or should I say, a *toddler*.

Well, someone, who can’t hold his line of argument and changes his stance in every 2nd post, seems to me is more of a "Globe"-toddler than anything.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 3, 2007)

Quiz_Master said:
			
		

> Well actually you seem very confused to me. In one post you say something and in other something else. You need to live in a town to know what terror is... Here is no police... Gali ke gunde hi uda daalte hain.
> Last year someone shot a rikshaw driver in front of my house, no one could do anything. Thats what terror is...
> 
> He is just shareing his views. He said nothing offending I think. Dont take it on heart.
> ...


 
Which part is confusing you? and what is that you are not clear about? Please do ask me, i'll do my best to explain what they imply.

And I really don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that I've not lived in a town and not witnessed terror hands on? Is it just because my location shows as Bangalore? Then, you are mistaken. Like I've said in my previous posts, even the part that you have quoted clearly says that I've travelled a lot more than you can imagine to research, analyze and document such crimes and appauling conditions in India and abroad and which part is that you don't understand. This is the third or fourth time I'm repeating myself, and if you still can't understand what that sentence implies, then I'm sorry to say, You are wrong!

Like I said, I've asked him to share his views but in a much more appropiate manner! Maybe you don't understand the meaning of unprofessionalism! Just becuase anyone is an adult doesn't mean that if they use f's and b's that it's professional. It's more or less same like the ministers who are unparlimentary!



			
				karnivore said:
			
		

> HA HA HA.     Actually he has run out of logic and can see the futility of his proposals. So he chose that age old defense, generally known to us as “snobbery”. NAH am not taking umbrage of this *kids* “*professionalism*”. What more can u expect from a kid, or should I say, a *toddler*.
> 
> Well, someone, who can’t hold his line of argument and changes his stance in every 2nd post, seems to me is more of a "Globe"-toddler than anything.


 
Assumptions, assumptions and more assumptions. Dude, I don't need to prove anything to an unprofessional person like you. Coming to your own conclusions to which you have no proof of! This thread is not to fight but rather to express your views and comments on the Issues. You are not here to Critizise other's when you yourself don't have a solution for anything!

You are just one of those Indians due to which the country is in the shape that it is today! Useless. Post your opinion if you have one and like my very first thread says, stop complaining and saying nothing can be done. GIVE A SOLUTION. If you don't have one, then don't post!


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## karnivore (Jul 3, 2007)

Hmmmmm.......don't seem to hav read my previous post. Here it is again for Captain Snooty


> We are on the right track. Its just that we need to do it more sensibly. Make sure the excess is not wasted, like thousands of tonnes of wheat rotting in FCCI godown, while another part of this country facing severe drought. Lots still remain to be done, but hey, we hav just started to be part of the world order and its been only 17 years. We hav to undo our mistakes of 40 yrs of bullcrap Socialism. Already we are having over 200 bill USD reserve [we had less that 5 bill USD in 1990, which actually prompted MMS to open out economy in the first place] a healthy growth rate of about 9 %, steady rise in per capita income. But sadly, there are farmers committing suicide, areas facing drought and these are precisely what need to be addressed urgently. Have a soft loan/credit system in place, build cold storages, have a proper public distribution system etc. Have medical facilities in the remotest part of this country, education facilities, easy access to drinking water, proper sewerage system. We need to build more roads and highways, need pollution free energy.
> 
> Listen i can go on and on and on. There's no end of it. However your stupid ID is not one in the priority list.


 
Now lets see.......



> ......I've travelled a lot *more than you can imagine* ....


Yes we can imagine. More than my grandparents taken together.   



> ......to *research, analyze and document* such crimes and appauling conditions in India and abroad


Bullcrap!!!!!! If u had really done some research or analysis, as u claim, then your arguments wouldn't have appeared so churlish. Even school going dudes have shown plenty of maturity in the thread. 



> You are just one of those Indians due to which the country is in the shape that it is today! Useless. Post your opinion if you have one and like my very first thread says, *stop complaining* and *saying nothing can be done*.


When the fuk did i say that. So criticizing u is akin to "saying nothing can be done". *WHO THE HECK ARE U, ANYWAY*.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 3, 2007)

karnivore said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm.......don't seem to hav read my previous post. Here it is again for Captain Snooty
> 
> 
> Now lets see.......
> ...


 
Piss off useless jerk!


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 3, 2007)

Hey! you two are taking this too personally. (Thats happen in sensitive threads like this.).
But there is no perfect solution yet (and I still think there isn't)...
I will wait for some more responses...


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## karnivore (Jul 3, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Piss off useless jerk!


 
         
*...WHATEVER.*


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 3, 2007)

Quiz_Master said:
			
		

> Hey! you two are taking this too personally. (Thats happen in sensitive threads like this.).
> But there is no perfect solution yet (and I still think there isn't)...
> I will wait for some more responses...


 
Nope.. I'm certainly not taking it personally because I've seen a lot of psychos like him. 

And like i've mentioned, I agree, there is no perfect solution and this forum is not here to provide a solution which is going to change India, it's here just to take the possible solutions and not flame at each other like useless opposition parties in the parliament. 

Look at all the other users who are posting their comments, they are giving solutions and possible alternatives rather than just telling what the existing problem is and flaming. We all know what the existing problems are but like we've been doing for all these years, we just keep complaining and saying what we already know.

I don't want to waste anymore time replying to his threads, he is infact a 'carnivore' with NO or little brains.

I already have a price on my head because of all the work and research I've done and the truth I know. So, don't expect me to put out all the work in detail here on the forum. Like I mentioned in my previous posts, if you would like to know more about it, pm me, I'll try sending you a soft copy of the details and certainly I wouldn't give it any Tom, Dick and Harry. That's the whole point of starting this thread. To idetify people who really have the insight and has the heart and soul to make a change! And certainly karnivore isn't one of them


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## karnivore (Jul 3, 2007)

> I already have a *price on my head because of all the work and research I've done and the truth I know*


 
OH MY FREAKING GOD. This guy is completely out of his mind.      
An example of how far a deluded soul can stretch his imagination. I have one word for u "*LOBOTOMY*"


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## Yamaraj (Jul 4, 2007)

The issue with finding solutions is that we must strike out our real problems first. My fellow Digit'ians have suggested that we should follow West in this regard, and that only money (capitalism) can be the real solution to all problems. I have to disagree! West has it's own share of social and political problems, and we shouldn't blindly import their nightmares to our shores.

There can never be a single one-shot solution to all problems. If we are to survive as social humans, we ought to put some restrictions on capitalism, politics and fundamentalism. Also, we should be careful in our choice of solutions, for they all have a string of side-effects that ought to be avoided like plague.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 4, 2007)

Yamaraj said:
			
		

> The issue with finding solutions is that we must strike out our real problems first. My fellow Digit'ians have suggested that we should follow West in this regard, and that only money (capitalism) can be the real solution to all problems. I have to disagree! West has it's own share of social and political problems, and we shouldn't blindly import their nightmares to our shores.
> 
> There can never be a single one-shot solution to all problems. If we are to survive as social humans, we ought to put some restrictions on capitalism, politics and fundamentalism. Also, we should be careful in our choice of solutions, for they all have a string of side-effects that ought to be avoided like plague.


 
Agree to what you say. We can't blindly import things from the west which unfortunately lot of ministers have tried doing without much success and a total waste of money. That's because there is no proper backend support for those solutions. There is no backbone. Lets say, you want to make the best road, and when you've made it, do you think it's going to last forever? No. because there are lot of other problems like overloaded trucks, unauthorised or even authorised road cutting, garbage spilling onto the roads, all these are the backend problems that I mentioned. And certainly this is not going to help a solution like building good roads!

What ever the solutions are, whether it's from the west or from the east, the solutions must intergrate with what exists, or the backend problems to that solutions must also be sorted out before implementing that solution!

And yes, money alone cannot sort problems but looking to the west or the east is no shame, it's just how exactly you are going to implement that into the fabric of India.


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## karnivore (Jul 4, 2007)

> West has it's own share of social and political problems, and we shouldn't* blindly* import their nightmares to our shores


Can't agree more with you. The key word is "blindly". West provides us a with a benchmark of what things should be and/or shouldn't be. There is no harm in "looking west", cause, even though their social system is crap, to put it politely, their system of governance is indeed worth emulating.



> we ought to put some *restrictions* on capitalism, politics and fundamentalism.


The word for me is "control". I would not want any restrictions but definitely an effective system of control. One example of what lack of control can do is the recent hoopla about pesticides in the cola drinks. 1st the govt never had any guidelines about the pesticide contents, 2nd it did not hav any effective method of monitoring these products and 3rd, last and not the least, it had no clue about the pesticide contents of the underground water. Its not surprising that the western companies find this land to be their dumping ground or worse, their laboratory.
Imagine, the criminals at Union Carbide are still roaming free and the victims still waiting for compensation. 

But the good thing is that the country is slowly, but surely showing signs of some maturity, although, one may argue, is it fast enough. Well may be not. But its better to hav something than nothing at all


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## slash_89 (Jul 4, 2007)

the only answer is to have communism and get rid of democracy.


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## Quiz_Master (Jul 4, 2007)

^^ Sadly, I 90% agree with you.
Communism may be a solution.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 4, 2007)

slash_89 said:
			
		

> the only answer is to have communism and get rid of democracy.


 
Guys, your comments on the topic are more than appreciated, but we are missing out on the whole point of this thread. That is to provide viable solutions with proper reasoning and explanation rather than one liner answers.

So, if you think we need to adopt communism and get rid of democracy, then please explain as to why you would think so, and how it's going to help the people and the country, starting from the starving to the rich.


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## karnivore (Jul 5, 2007)

Communism????!!!!!! Never in a million years. The “bads” in communism far outweigh the “goods”. It is good in theory, but equally lousy in practice. It works like leech, sucking all the blood out of the body of the state and turns it into a carcass. One look at former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe will confirm my observations. You know, its one thing to share your cake, but it is an entirely different story when it comes to making of the cake. Its one thing to talk of “equality”, but to actually bring about that equality is another ball game. One of the greatest flaws of communism, among myriad others, is its inability to define equality other than in terms of economics, thereby inadvertently or advertently breeding inequalities of different form. Like political and social inequalities. Not to mention its pathological tendency of promoting mediocrity, something which we have already turned into a fine art.

No my dear friends we don’t need communism. You don’t have to look elsewhere. Just look at our own home grown ones. They have an almost endless list of follies to their credits. These commie bastards once shouted ‘_yeh azadi jhoota hain’_- this independence is worthless- then in 1952 they quietly took part in the 1st parliamentary election, something they mocked as “bourgeoisie system”, and when Nambudiripad won elections to become the CM of Kerala in 1957, they also quietly forgot that “this independence is worthless”. Today they portray themselves as the savior of democracy, something they once swore to fight against. The list, as I said, is endless.

Trust me guys you don’t want to experience communism. They are like locust, like plague, like a curse.We had our strange socialism in place for 40 long years and it has done its share of damage to this country, thanks to our Gandhi family. Now that we are slowly rectifying our mistakes and trying to leap forward, heralding communism would be ten thousand steps backward.

Democracy, with all its flaws, still remains the best form of governance and we hav to find solutions within this set up only.


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## Aberforth (Jul 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> One Word : Communism + Democracy mixture. People have no discipline.



Both fail in India. Communism won't work as Indians are very complacent and corrupt which will end up in an autocratic and oppressive India.

Democracy? We have seen what kind of democracy we have in India, blood of thousands are shed for someone who wants to be a VIP.

We need an India where people should vote for capable, dynamic and driven people who actually are good in their fields rather than a 10th pass becoming the education minister. But that is easier said than done, considering the current state of affairs. Unless there is a radical change/revolt/reform and de-Nehruisation of politics nothing much is going to change.


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## faraaz (Jul 6, 2007)

Aberforth said:
			
		

> We need an India where people should vote for capable, dynamic and driven people who actually are good in their fields rather than a 10th pass becoming the education minister. But that is easier said than done, considering the current state of affairs. Unless there is a radical change/revolt/reform and de-Nehruisation of politics nothing much is going to change.



...which in India is nothing more than a pipe-dream...which is a pity because I actually agree with Aberforth...


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