# e2180 or e4500?



## neeru_igi (May 21, 2008)

why is the e2180 2k/- cheaper than e4500 ?does it have worser perfrmancethan the latter?

im trying to find a good combination to upgrade my cpu/tower/rig (only) on a (very) tight budget.this setup will be mainly using for gaming & other home uses.
heres my list

C2d e4500 or e2180
dg31pr(most probably) or dg33fb mobo
1gb ram(maybe 2gb ,depends on final bill)
250 G HDD
nvidia 8400gs gfx(i have to consider the budget.)
PSU+ATX=1000 rs

budget=rs 15000/- (max) suggestion for improvements are welcome.im in malappuram,kerala so please suggest commonly available components.
whats the difference between dg31pr and dg33fb ?takin into account price and performance,which one is better?


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## kooki (May 21, 2008)

- ive used both the e2180 and e4500. the main difference is the l2 cache size which is 1 and 2 mb. in real world usage i didnt notice any diff at all. if ur on a budget, get teh e2180. its really good. 
- im using the DG31PR mobo with a q6600 proc, and its really stable n good. the diff between the dg31 and dg33 is the southbridge (ICH7vsICH9) and dg33 has 4 slots for ram, while dg31 has 2. get the dg31pr again if ur on a budget. 
also get 2 gigs of ram. its a must if u running vista.


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## saqib_khan (May 21, 2008)

Yes, E2180 has more VFM, buy it, i strongly recommend for u.

And yes min 2 GB RAM. 

Save money in Processor & add it in RAM. I GB DDR2 667 Mhz will cost u 950 Rs.


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## Pathik (May 21, 2008)

Neither. Wait for sometime and get the e7200.


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## hellgate (May 21, 2008)

my suggestion is if u can wait then do as Pathik has swaid else u can go for the following config:
1>E2160 - 2.9k
2>abit IP35-E - 5.4k
3>2*1GB DDR2 667 - 1.8k
4>250GB Seagate - 2.4k
5>8400GS - 2.2k
6>PSU + Cabby - 1.2k
total is 15.9k

another optionj is get a Biostar GF7050V-M7 fdor 2.3k instead of IP35-E and spend the rest 2.2k to get a 8600GT.overall gamin g performance will be better in this case.


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## saqib_khan (May 21, 2008)

Pathik is e7200 launched??

Here is a review of it

If launched then wat is the price? Xbitlabs quotes a price of 133 $. If u convert it in INR it will be around 5320 Rs.

So, I think that's heavy on wallet.


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## neeru_igi (May 21, 2008)

thank you all for your quick responses.
@kooki is there any diff in video encoding speeds?
@hellgate ip35-e sounds expensive at 5k&im not sure i can get my hands on biostar
@khan what is VFM?
@pathik when'll it be released?if  its @5k then i may not be able to buy it


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## axxo (May 21, 2008)

I run e2160 @ 3.4ghz..beats e8200 hands down in every bench...
E2180 is Rs.600 more than E2160...only for 200mhz increase, which you could very well reach in overclocking.


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## saqib_khan (May 21, 2008)

@axxo can u tell the temp it goes under heavy load?? 

@neeru_igi VFM means Value for Money.


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## Pathik (May 21, 2008)

It will be released soon. Should be $113 on release. The cheapest penryn.


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## hellgate (May 21, 2008)

AFAIK it'll be released in Q3 2008.


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## Pathik (May 21, 2008)

Yea. July or August maybe. Isn't it soon enuf?


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## MetalheadGautham (May 22, 2008)

E7200 may be the cheapest penryn, but its still nearly 5k.

I wonder when e31(4/6/8)0 will come out, the penryn version of e21(4/6/8)0.

It will definitely be able to OC much more than the 2 series, and hence at 55$ it will make the ultimate Processor to own for the guy who KNOWS how to OC. But then, the intel mobo won't be of any use as its worthless for OCers and you need softwares to do the OCing for you.


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## kooki (May 22, 2008)

i have not tried them while vid encoding so i cant say. what i can tell u is the e2180 is a best bang for buck u can get out there. there is a 5-10% diff in performance MAX between the e2180 and e4500. 
ive been using the DG31PR mobo and have had 0 probs with it. its simple stable and easy to install. plus it supports quad core if u wanna upgrade in the future. the DG33 is a better board, but u can invest the money u saved in another gb of ram. it will make a BIGGER difference in performance. ( in vista especially)
if ur on a budget, and are not into overclocking n stuff, this is the best buy for u. i have had some really good experience with these products. it JUST works, if thats what ur looking for.

e2180- 3300
DG31PR-3750
2x1gb trancend ram- 2100
seagate 250gb - 2500
xfx8400gs- 2050
zebronics lava +psu - 1500

total- 15200


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## neeru_igi (May 22, 2008)

thanx again guys.ithink ill get the 2180
not that im into overclocking,ive heard that intel boards do not allow OCing.is it true?does it apply for dg31pr?
also taking in hellgates advice i think i'll choose a 8600gt or an 8500gt rather than the 8400gs & (a pricier board).Any suggetions on a cheaper (~2.5k) board?


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## MetalheadGautham (May 22, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> thanx again guys.ithink ill get the 2180
> not that im into overclocking,ive heard that intel boards do not allow OCing.is it true?does it apply for dg31pr?
> also taking in hellgates advice i think i'll choose a 8600gt or an 8500gt rather than the 8400gs & (a pricier board).Any suggetions on a cheaper (~2.5k) board?


If you want OCing, go for XFX 630i motherboard, which is very cheap (~3k) and has brilliant better than gma x3100 onboard graphics(nVidia 7050) and support to OC.

but it lacks dual channel support, so beware.

And you can go fo E2140, aneven more cheaper processor, which can be effortlessly taken up to 3.0 GHz by OCing.


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> not that im into overclocking,ive heard that intel boards do not allow OCing.is it true?does it apply for dg31pr?



U cannot over clock on Intel DG31PR.



> also taking in hellgates advice i think i'll choose a 8600gt or an 8500gt rather than the 8400gs & (a pricier board).Any suggetions on a cheaper (~2.5k) board?



Radeon HD 3450 or better yet, Radeon HD 3650.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 22, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> U cannot over clock on Intel DG31PR.


*www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/7297-definitive-answer-can-i-overclock-my.html


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2008)

Ok, correction, I cannot over clock on intel


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## MetalheadGautham (May 22, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Ok, correction, I cannot over clock on intel


here it is:
*www.brothersoft.com/clockgen-download-68338.html


try and tell me if your speed could atleast slightly increase.
its 337 kb download
clockgen its called.

If it works well, I am going to write a tutorial


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2008)

Doesn't work here


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## MetalheadGautham (May 22, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Doesn't work here


why ??


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## confused (May 22, 2008)

axxo said:


> I run e2160 @ 3.4ghz..beats e8200 hands down in every bench...
> E2180 is Rs.600 more than E2160...only for 200mhz increase, which you could very well reach in overclocking.


what cooling are you using??? 

i have more or less, decided on buying E2180 as a interim arrangement, since i have already waited for Q9450 for over 10 days.


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## infra_red_dude (May 22, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> If you want OCing, go for XFX 630i motherboard, which is very cheap (~3k) and has brilliant better than gma x3100 onboard graphics(nVidia 7050) and support to OC.


With a pentium dual core proc. overclocking I'd suggest you stay away from this board. While the x3100 is much better (is dx10 compat.) than 630i onboard, intel boards lack overclockability. I'd suggest you either buy Gigabyte G33 or P35 based boards if Abit IP35 is costly.


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## hellgate (May 22, 2008)

^^^ i think Gigabyte P35 based mobo wud be pricier than abit IP35-E.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 23, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> With a pentium dual core proc. overclocking I'd suggest you stay away from this board. While the x3100 is much better (is dx10 compat.) than 630i onboard, intel boards lack overclockability. I'd suggest you either buy Gigabyte G33 or P35 based boards if Abit IP35 is costly.


what about axxo's biostar mobo ?
he says his E2160 runs at 3.4 GHz with stock cooling.


hellgate said:


> ^^^ i think Gigabyte P35 based mobo wud be pricier than abit IP35-E.


ASUS ? It is soon going to have splashdot, a must feature which should have been on all motherboards since the year 2000 but is being concidered only recently.


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 23, 2008)

Dude i think i missed it, but L2 Cache matters in gaming. More L2 Cache gives better performance in gaming.

E2160/80 is a good economic alternative but E4500 has more L2 Cache.

Fahd.Malik has got E7200 for 5700/- from SMC.


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## confused (May 23, 2008)

keith_j_snyder2 said:


> Dude i think i missed it, but L2 Cache matters in gaming. More L2 Cache gives better performance in gaming.
> 
> E2160/80 is a good economic alternative but E4500 has more L2 Cache.
> 
> Fahd.Malik has got E7200 for 5700/- from SMC.


ok, then i have a question:is it worth paying 3k more to buy q9450 (12mb l2 cache) over q9300 (6mb l2 cache)???


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 23, 2008)

confused said:


> ok, then i have a question:is it worth paying 3k more to buy q9450 (12mb l2 cache) over q9300 (6mb l2 cache)???



It's worth every single penny!


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## MetalheadGautham (May 23, 2008)

one last thing I want to say here if you are buying E2180:

E2180 is much more costlier than E2160, while offering only a 200MHz increase in clock speed.

E2140 - 1.6GHz - Rs. 2500
E2160 - 1.8GHz - Rs. 2700
E2180 - 2.0GHz - Rs. 3300

as you can see, the first two are much more VFM compared to the third. As usual, intel is phasing out the first to and introducing the third only to extract more money from us.

Its a fact that E2160 can effortlessly go beyond E2180's clock speed, and can safely reach 2.4GHz and can go upto 3.4GHz safely with stock cooling.

The same goes for E2140.

So I recomend that you buy one of the first two instead of the second.

And about the importance of L2 cache, the 1mb extra l2 isn't worth the 2500 extra you spend on E4500. It hardly influences the performance in games, especially so when compared to the increase offered by spending that extra cash on getting a better GPU.

But the same case is not valid for the quad core, where 3k more is to be paid for getting 6mb more l2 cache for a quad core cpu. Those are performance CPUs, and with 4 cores, every mb of l2 cache matters, and hence 3k for 6mb l2 extra is worth every bit of the money you pay.

My current advice to you: buy the E2160 or E2140 first, get a cheap and good quality OverClocker approved motherboard, and use the money you save from buying E2160 on either getting a better board(recomended if no GPU) or a better GPU, if you are buying it, or just save it for the future.
Later, you can buy the Q3450.

Here is a thread by a user called aXXo, who set up one of the most perfect budget OverClocked systems ever, and enjoys a great performance from his CPU.
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79863
take a look there and see if you are upto it, because if so, just follow his steps(as he was successful) and you may have an uber rig.


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 23, 2008)

Every processor has something special. Acc. to the models, there are multipliers etc.
E2140 can reach upto 3.2GHz.
E2160 can reach upto 3.6GHz.
E2180 can reach upto 3.8GHz....or may be more.
But E2140 has best value for money, but keep in mind that reaching that much higher clocks require great cooling and power too.


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## Fahd.Malik (May 23, 2008)

I bought my new rig with a E7200 processor @5700/- from SMC international Nehru place.
It is neat!
and definately better than E4500 and its in the same price range.


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## neeru_igi (May 24, 2008)

i think the 5700 might overshoot the budget.ditto for all quad cores
@infrared dude how much does the gigabyte g33s and p35s cost?
as said above i'll go for better grafixcrd instead of procc. & board since i'll be gaming more.will i be able to run bioshock & crysis on good settings on a 8500/8600gt?
also suggestions for cheap procc-MoBo combination are welcome.thnx again.


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## Pathik (May 24, 2008)

Wait for some more time. You ll get the e7200 below 5k. It's the best bang for buck.


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 24, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> i think the 5700 might overshoot the budget.ditto for all quad cores
> @infrared dude how much does the gigabyte g33s and p35s cost?
> as said above i'll go for better grafixcrd instead of procc. & board since i'll be gaming more.will i be able to run bioshock & crysis on good settings on a 8500/8600gt?
> also suggestions for cheap procc-MoBo combination are welcome.thnx again.



Bioshock - Yes, Crysis - NO, 8600GT is good for gaming under 1024x768 resolution. Crysis is bit more graphics hungry game and require powerful GPU. Though u will not enjoy eye candy graphics in crysis but under mid settings, its all good.

As hellgate suggested in *5th* post of this thread, if budget is a problem then settle for 630i, decent overclocking features and onboard video too. 
Biostar P35D2A-7 is a cheaper option and will cost almost 3800/-


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## hellgate (May 24, 2008)

since u wanna game get the best GPU that ur money can buy.the procy and mobo wont make a hell of a diif (i.e in the amt u wanna spend).all of the E2xxx series o.c well and performance diff aint huge.better get a E2140 and oc to 3.2GHz.dont go after E2180 and think bout hitting 3.6GHz and above cuz u'll be limited by the mobo.remember 630i is not a oc'er mobo.
if u wanna oc then the least u can get is Biostar P35D2A-7 (which Darklord has tested with E8500) or better still abit IP35-E but u wont be able to buy a good gfx card if u go 4 these mobos.
ur best option is get a E2140 and XFX 630i and game on onboard till u hav enuf money to buy a 9600GT or 8800GT.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 25, 2008)

hellgate said:


> since u wanna game get the best GPU that ur money can buy.the procy and mobo wont make a hell of a diif (i.e in the amt u wanna spend).all of the E2xxx series o.c well and performance diff aint huge.better get a E2140 and oc to 3.2GHz.dont go after E2180 and think bout hitting 3.6GHz and above cuz u'll be limited by the mobo.remember 630i is not a oc'er mobo.
> if u wanna oc then the least u can get is Biostar P35D2A-7 (which Darklord has tested with E8500) or better still abit IP35-E but u wont be able to buy a good gfx card if u go 4 these mobos.
> ur best option is get a E2140 and XFX 630i and game on onboard till u hav enuf money to buy a 9600GT or 8800GT.


pay 200 rupees more and get a E2160 ?
its a known fact that 2160 is always better than 2140 because from what most tomshardware guys say, it has a clock limit which is equal to the limit of commonly used budget mobos for it.


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## neeru_igi (May 25, 2008)

WAIT A MINUTE!!!

The e2xxx series is listed under Pentium Dual-Core Processor list & not undr core2duo.
why?is it not a true dual core?

@snyder:thats ok i'll be using my lg 500g crt monitor.its max resolution is 1024x768


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## hellgate (May 25, 2008)

Penrium Dual Cores hav the same architecture as C2Ds but hav only 1MB of cache whereas C2Ds hav a min of 2MB L2.
both r true dual cores.


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## neeru_igi (May 27, 2008)

thanx hellgate.does it make any difference in performance

also biggest question of em all,which MoBo to go for?(~2.5k)?


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 27, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> @snyder:thats ok i'll be using my lg 500g crt monitor.its max resolution is 1024x768



If thats the case then its fine. U can even play GEARS OF WAR with max. resolution noAA with 35+ FPS.
Just have a look at *this* too!


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## neeru_igi (May 28, 2008)

cool.any idea when it'll be released or pricing?
also ,MoBos anyone?


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## hellgate (May 28, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> thanx hellgate.does it make any difference in performance
> 
> also biggest question of em all,which MoBo to go for?(~2.5k)?


 
u wont feel any diff in normal day to day tasks but more of L2 surely helps in gaming.

for 2.5k the best u can do is Biostar GF7050V-M7.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 28, 2008)

hellgate said:


> for 2.5k the best u can do is Biostar GF7050V-M7.


first time hearing that name, but still all reviews speak good of it.
any idea how this and E2140 OC stock cooling will perform compared to jetway 690G and 4000+ OC stock cooling ?


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## hellgate (May 29, 2008)

that Biostar mobo is pretty good 4 its price.sud do 2.5Ghz with E2160.main prob with mobo is that vcore for procy cannot be inc'd beyond 106%.if u want better oc then go for XFX 630i for 3.2k


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## neeru_igi (May 29, 2008)

i am gonna get a gf card so a pow.ful onboard solution is kinda redundant.arent board without onboard gfx cheaper?lets try some of those!


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 29, 2008)

neeru_igi said:


> cool.any idea when it'll be released or pricing?
> also ,MoBos anyone?



It is expected to launch at Nvidia's launch for GT200 chip and will be available within 15-20 days of launch.
Here is an update.

Dude if u are short on cash then buy AMD setup.

The Intel Dual Core and Core2Duo is efficient series but the moment u overclock ur processor, it will become power hungry beast.

AMD processors runs great on stock and pretty good with gaming and the best part is, that they give u the better motherboard(780G) than Intel setup for lesser price.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 29, 2008)

hellgate said:


> that Biostar mobo is pretty good 4 its price.sud do 2.5Ghz with E2160.main prob with mobo is that vcore for procy cannot be inc'd beyond 106%.if u want better oc then go for XFX 630i for 3.2k


2.5 ! bad. stock ? must be effortless, as 2160 gets angry only at 3.0
630i not an option for 5k budget
theitwares.com lists that biostar at 2.2k
looks really really really attractive
and then jetway 690G + 4000+ ka max performance ?
does it support dual channel ?
is ddr2 800 supported ?
at same clock, core2 >>> athlon
so a5k(codename 4 best amd setup at 5k) needs to do 3 I suppose, to bEat i5k(codename 4 best intel setup at 5k)


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## keith_j_snyder2 (May 29, 2008)

Thise 610I, 630i chipsets doesn't sport Dual Channel RAM, the only -ive part. Otherwise they are almost as good as 690G, may be better.


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## hellgate (May 29, 2008)

^^^ even then mem performance is better than G945 chipset mobos which do support dual channel.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 30, 2008)

hellgate said:


> ^^^ even then mem performance is better than G945 chipset mobos which do support dual channel.


what about my other questions ?
what clock can amd 4000+ do on jetway 690G ?
and will that, combined with DDR2 800 Dual Channel 1 GB RAM beat the performance of E2140 OCed to 2.5GHz in biostar 610i stock with 1GB DDR2 800 RAM ?


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## hellgate (May 30, 2008)

i think that the Biostar + E2160 will be a better combo cuz when oc'd the performanmce gains from C2Ds r gr8.with luck if u get a good chip then maybe u can touch 3Ghz with that Biostar mobo.
i've used that Biostar mobo with my E8400/E2160/E4500 and i did like the performance dished out for that price range.


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## MetalheadGautham (May 30, 2008)

hellgate said:


> i think that the Biostar + E2160 will be a better combo cuz when oc'd the performanmce gains from C2Ds r gr8.with luck if u get a good chip then maybe u can touch 3Ghz with that Biostar mobo.
> i've used that Biostar mobo with my E8400/E2160/E4500 and i did like the performance dished out for that price range.


but wasn't there a limit to clock speed you told about ?
and what IS the performance difference ?
I heard amd is cooler, so more OCable.
what about geforce 7050 vs radeon 1250 performance difference ?
does 610i support 800mhz ram ?


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## hellgate (May 30, 2008)

there a limit to the max vcore value,so if u get a good chip then u'll need lesser vcore headroom to oc further.
amd may run cooler but cant compete with C2Ds when it comes to oc'ing.
yes mobo supports 800MHz.


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## neeru_igi (May 31, 2008)

oh boy!now i'm supremely confused to the max.

the 9500gt kicks 8600 butt but aint expected till a while.so now i'm thinking go for 8400gs+good proccy(main job is gaming....still)and get a better card later (better than 9500 maybe)

also, which biostar are you talking about? 
        how much performance increase does dual channel bring?
        oh yeah and how many watts pow supply if i OC?(i'm in malappuram kerala so dont expect any VIPs or Cooler masters)

thnx again to all for your patience.


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## hellgate (May 31, 2008)

i'm talking bout Biostar GF7050V-M7.


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## t3chg33k (Jun 1, 2008)

2140 has a 8x multiplier 
2160 has a 9x multiplier 
2180 has a 10x multiplier

2140 is going to hit the FSB wall even before you get it to 2160/2180 OC levels.
2180 and 2160 will not give you much of a difference as far as the upper OC limit is concerned. However the 2180 will ensure better stability at the same clock speed, say 3.4GHz. Therefore it is better to go for the 2180 if you don't mind the 0.6k, otherwise settle for the 2160 if you are going to keep it at, say 3-3.2 Ghz. 
Frankly don't go for the 4xxx series for a budget PC as it doesn't make sense.


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## saqib_khan (Jun 2, 2008)

I too recommend 2180 .


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## neeru_igi (Jun 3, 2008)

okay the ultimatum has fallen.plan A (post 55) has been officially eliminated.
folks wont let me buy a better gfx card later so i'll have to make a one time decision now("or wait another 5 years for an upgrade...")

so heres the deal.plz provide a good gfx-procc-mobo combo for gaming in 10k/-
(dont care if its a comparable AM2 if it fits in 10k/-)

also where can i find realworld AM2 vs c2d benchmarks for video encoding?


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