# Explain how children below 18 open website accounts: HC to govt



## theserpent (Apr 26, 2013)

> New Delhi, Apr 25 (PTI): The Delhi High Court today sought the Centre's response on a plea questioning how children below the age of 18 years are allowed to open an account on social networking sites including Facebook, even though Indian laws do not permit it.
> 
> The court also asked two US-based entities- Facebook Inc and Google Inc--to reply to the plea of former BJP ideologue K N Govindacharya seeking an order for recovery of taxes from the websites on their income from operations in India.
> 
> ...



Explain how children below 18 open website accounts: HC to govt

So what I understood is, According to the LAW a under 18 person can't open a account?


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## Flash (Apr 26, 2013)

> "How children below 18 years can have an agreement with any of the social network sites including Facebook? The Union of India is directed to file an affidavit on the issue within 10 days," the bench said.



By clicking "Accept" without reading the "terms & conditions". 
I mean how fb/G can verify a user? 

All they can do is verify the "DOB" that one enters during Registration process.. 

One possible suggestion i wanna give to HC:
"Ask users to upload their Birth Certificate copy during Registration process of a website."


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## theserpent (Apr 26, 2013)

IDK, What is wrong with the GOVERMENT, All lame rules.
Most the kids are mature by 15.
This rule is RIDICULOUS


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## theserpent (Apr 26, 2013)

Better Idea is to Leave this country,what's the next LAW? Students can't enjoy?Use mobiles,computers?


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## Empirial (Apr 26, 2013)

I've seen some minors signing up with wrong DOB so my question to our Govt. is that "Do you've enough time & resource to contact each & everyone for verification?".


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## Desmond (Apr 26, 2013)

What's wrong if someone underage signs up on social networking sites with a fake DOB? I mean what exactly is bothering the Govt/HC?


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## Thunder (Apr 26, 2013)

The government is going Mad. What they want is to restrict freedom of expression. 
Simply Stupid.


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## Desmond (Apr 26, 2013)

On second thought, why is the government/HC more concerned with minors signing up on social networking sites than corrupt Indians opening secret Swiss bank accounts?


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## chaitanya2106 (Apr 26, 2013)

This is a stupid order & not expected from a HC. What harm can Fb/G underage users do to the security of this country?


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## theserpent (Apr 26, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> On second thought, why is the government/HC more concerned with minors signing up on social networking sites than corrupt Indians opening secret Swiss bank accounts?



Simple they lack brains



chaitanya2106 said:


> This is a stupid suggestion & not expected from a HC. What harm can Fb/G underage users do to the security of this country?



These are the youth of the country, If the goverment accepts it, they are digging their own grave


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## Flash (Apr 26, 2013)

chaitanya2106 said:


> This is a stupid order & not expected from a HC. What harm can Fb/G underage users do to the security of this country?


No offense.. I thought you would support HC.
Atleast you're with us on this.


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## theserpent (Apr 26, 2013)

chaitanya2106 said:


> This is a stupid order & not expected from a HC. What harm can Fb/G underage users do to the security of this country?



WOW, your first sensible post  No offense


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## Desmond (Apr 26, 2013)

From above article :



> Facebook's gross revenue for previous year was 37 billion USD approximately but they are not paying due taxes to the Indian government," the petition said.



Now I get what this is about. As always, its about the money.

But, the Interwebs is a politically neutral place, how do they expect to gain taxes for online interactions?


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## Flash (Apr 26, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> But, the Interwebs is a politically neutral place, how do they expect to gain taxes for online interactions?


Under table..


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## Nipun (Apr 26, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Now I get what this is about. As always, its about the money.



Just Cause.


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## theserpent (Apr 28, 2013)

From where do these lawyers come from


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 28, 2013)

actually if you go through that news report again, you will notice that it mentions three acts the IT act, the contract act and the majority act. The majority and contract act were formed in 1870's .  So specifically its basically the breach of contract that is breaking the rule by entering falsified information. Apart from that many users especially stalkers and pedophiles can enter random details and harass children and girls.

but on the other hand, its ironic. They talk about computer networks and we are still living in the FUP world.


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## ico (Apr 28, 2013)

Indian culture is to blame.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

Yo Zuckerberg,don't be such a tight-fisted Jew,man!Pay up dem Netas and Judges so they stop barking at you for the green(or the blue,beige or pink  )


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## theserpent (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm wondering what the next PIL will say? Ban smartphones?


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## Desmond (Apr 28, 2013)

ico said:


> Indian culture is to blame.



Amen!


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

theserpent said:


> I'm wondering what the next PIL will say? Ban smartphones?



No,no theres too much money involved in that,One fine day the person who filed the PIL will take his case back and laugh all the way to the bank with HTC/Samsung/Sony and Crapple's money(*bribe)


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## Nerevarine (Apr 28, 2013)

Soon they will ban TDF


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

ico said:


> Indian culture is to blame.


Indian Greed.Precisely


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## ganeshnokiae63 (Apr 28, 2013)

This is Ridiculous
last Year a message From FB quoting
"You are Above 18 and You can open any adult links...blah blah"
even we accepted the "rights and conditions" on opening the Account...
this doesn't make Sense


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> Soon they will ban TDF



especially with all the "Indian Culture" stuff going around


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## theserpent (Apr 28, 2013)

Wondering what will the "other" goverment do next year if they come to power?


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## Nipun (Apr 28, 2013)

ganeshnokiae63 said:


> This is Ridiculous
> last Year a message From FB quoting
> "You are Above 18 and You can open any adult links...blah blah"
> even we accepted the "rights and conditions" on opening the Account...
> this doesn't make Sense



What are you trying to say?


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

theserpent said:


> Wondering what will the "other" goverment do next year if they come to power?



India will become a Dictatorship like China(in terms of development, not type of government)
And Christians and Muslims will be exterminated like Jews during Hitler's time 
Atheist will vanish  everything will be Hindu
If you are caught eating beef you will be hanged


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## ganeshnokiae63 (Apr 28, 2013)

i mean FB has its right and Government too then why should FB accept the details provided by me?


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## theserpent (Apr 28, 2013)

Nipun said:


> What are you trying to say?



Once you become 18, facebook does this


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 28, 2013)

One day,Google will also banned.Why?


Spoiler



Just type "pornos" in the Image search  and see what results you get


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 28, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> One day,Google will also banned.Why?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



it would have been banned long ago, they just dont know how to use google 

search for 



Spoiler



child rape


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## SaiyanGoku (Apr 29, 2013)

in India, this is what happens:
to vote: have age 18+
to have driving license: have age 18+
to have full control of your bank account: have age 18+
to watch A rated movies: have age 18+
to have s*x legally: have age 18+
to get punished under law as a non juvenile: have age 18+
to get a PAN card: have age 18+
to be recognised as a grown up: have age 18+ and don't watch anime, play games on pc/consoles etc
to get arms license: have age 18+
to earn from working in a shop: have age 18+ or else its child labour
to stand in elections: have age 18+

they should rather restrict the upper age limit/retirement age to 65 for all posts in the government including the PM, president, governor, CM, etc


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## Desmond (Apr 29, 2013)

Luffy said:


> in India, this is what happens:
> to vote: have age 18+
> to have driving license: have age 18+
> *to have full control of your bank account: have age 18+*
> ...



Nope, you can have an independent bank account at the age of 12 onwards. I had mine opened at that age. No, it was not joint.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> India will become a Dictatorship like China(in terms of development, not type of government)
> And Christians and Muslims will be exterminated like Jews during Hitler's time
> Atheist will vanish  everything will be Hindu
> If you are caught eating beef you will be hanged



Indeed, Congress for all its flaws is a secular party. And I would prefer my country to be secular. It would be even better if there were an Atheistic party.


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## gagan_kumar (Apr 29, 2013)

i think what governments is fearing the most is the rise of people as through the use of social media such as Fb and google + people are getting updated about the situations in the country at greater speed then before..
also using social media people are expressing their views on governments policies ........ people have become more aware so there are more outrages of people like recently( in the rape case) previously hardly few people gets known abt these things and govt. would hav no pressure on taking actions..... but now the scenario is changed!!! i think this is what govt. is fearing abt


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## Desmond (Apr 29, 2013)

gta0gagan said:


> i think what governments is fearing the most is the rise of people as through the use of social media such as Fb and google + people are getting updated about the situations in the country at greater speed then before..
> also using social media people are expressing their views on governments policies ........ people have become more aware so there are more outrages of people like recently( in the rape case) previously hardly few people gets known abt these things and govt. would hav no pressure on taking actions..... but now the scenario is changed!!! i think this is what govt. is fearing abt



Amen!


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## Faun (Apr 29, 2013)

Luffy said:


> in India, this is what happens:
> to be recognised as a grown up: have age 18+ and don't watch anime, play games on pc/consoles etc



hehe...I am a child.


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## Vignesh B (Apr 29, 2013)

Where do the guys filing these PILs get so much time? Don't they have any other work to do?
Our country is suffering from so many other atrocities. Try stopping them rather than asking the govt to look out for under age people using social networks, blaming porn for the rapes etc.
Indians, we'll never change. :/


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## Nipun (Apr 29, 2013)

Luffy said:


> to have full control of your bank account: have age 18+


Nope. It's 13.


> to get a PAN card: have age 18+


Nope. No age limit.


> to earn from working in a shop: have age 18+ or else its child labour


Nope. 15, if it's not _hazardous_.


> to stand in elections: have age 18+


It's 25+ for MP/MLA.



Vignesh B said:


> Where do the guys filing these PILs get so much time? Don't they have any other work to do?



Jolly LLB.



DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> It would be even better if there were an Atheistic party.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Nipun said:


> Nope. It's 13.



@offtopic

i dont think you are allowed to open and operate an independent bank account if you are less than 18.

The account access is still restricted under the guardianship. The chequekbooks are issued to the guardian in the name of under guardianship of the minor. 

You are however allowed to withdraw money from ATM's and make payments.


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## Desmond (Apr 29, 2013)

HCgamer101 said:


> @offtopic
> 
> i dont think you are allowed to open and operate an independent bank account if you are less than 18.
> 
> ...



I got my independent bank account when I was 12. My dad is a banker and he got it opened for me. I still use it to this day.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I got my independent bank account when I was 12. My dad is a banker and he got it opened for me. I still use it to this day.



that must be the scenario long time back. In the past couple of years things have changed. I had to resubmit all of my documents again for KYC even when i opened my account only 2 years ago and still submitted all of them. Maybe you can ask your dad about this

EDIT :

could you sign cheques and withdraw money?


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## Kl@w-24 (Apr 29, 2013)

Meh. Just another tactic to get a share of that massive revenue. Trying to arm-twist FB into submission - give us a slice or we'll ban your India operations because you're allowing "minors" to access your website.


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## Nipun (Apr 29, 2013)

HCgamer101 said:


> @offtopic
> 
> i dont think you are allowed to open and operate an independent bank account if you are less than 18.
> 
> ...



I am 16, and have a fully independent bank account(that's what the forms say). They didn't take signatures of my guardians or parents either. Yes, I'm allowed to withdraw and deposit money any time, using ATM, net banking or anything.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Nipun said:


> I am 16, and have a fully independent bank account(that's what the forms say). They didn't take signatures of my guardians or parents either. Yes, I'm allowed to withdraw and deposit money any time, using ATM, net banking or anything.



Untitled Document

i read about what i wrote there from here.

EDIT :

do you parents also have an account with the same bank ? if your parents dont have an account with the bank its not possible. And the account is not truly independent.

your signature i.e. you are not authorized to create FD's and make NEFT transfers 

therefore the account is part independent under supervision from your parents.


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## Desmond (Apr 29, 2013)

HCgamer101 said:


> that must be the scenario long time back. In the past couple of years things have changed. I had to resubmit all of my documents again for KYC even when i opened my account only 2 years ago and still submitted all of them. Maybe you can ask your dad about this
> 
> EDIT :
> 
> could you sign cheques and withdraw money?





> (ii)	A savings bank account may be opened in the single name of a minor and may be operated upon by minor, if he/she has completed the age of-10-years and is able to read and write. Maximum balance to the credit of such account should not exceed at any time Rs.1,00,000/-.For accounts of minors above-14-years,there is no limit to maximum balance.



Source : Bank of Baroda - India's International Bank - Personal Banking Services - Deposits - Savings - Baroda Bachat Mitra

Perhaps different banks have different rules.

I didn't apply for a cheque book but I could withdraw money using the withdrawal form or deposit money anytime. This was before there were ATMs so had to do everything from the bank.

Edit : I think we have gone WAY....off topic.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

yes i feel like a chartered accountant


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## Anorion (Apr 29, 2013)

What is the legal age as per fb's own tos? 13? 
Govt should ban fb for people over 18. Problem solved.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Anorion said:


> What is the legal age as per fb's own tos? 13?
> Govt should ban fb for people over 18. Problem solved.



this is not a joke, its pretty serious. If this law ever gets passed then you can guess what is coming next.


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## Nipun (Apr 29, 2013)

HCgamer101 said:


> this is not a joke, its pretty serious. If this law ever gets passed then you can guess what is coming next.



A nic-designed FB?


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Nipun said:


> A nic-designed FB?



totalitarian control.


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## Anorion (Apr 29, 2013)

Its to make it safer for kids. Indian govt actually asking for safety of accounts, and that makes it totalitarian - as against fb which totally has so much competition.
 It can be easily done on a systemic level, by just tracking the age and having age appropriate security and access features. 

But fb is not allowed to mine information or track anyone under 13 by the laws under which it operates.


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Anorion said:


> Its to make it safer for kids. Indian govt actually asking for safety of accounts, and that makes it totalitarian - as against fb which totally has so much competition.
> It can be easily done on a systemic level, by just tracking the age and having age appropriate security and access features.
> 
> But fb is not allowed to mine information or track anyone under 13 by the laws under which it operates.



well, how can one put into place these suggestions? 
maybe instead of sarcasm you should try posting literally.
It helps.
A lot.


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## Desmond (Apr 29, 2013)

Anorion said:


> Its to make it safer for kids. Indian govt actually asking for safety of accounts, and that makes it totalitarian - as against fb which totally has so much competition.
> It can be easily done on a systemic level, by just tracking the age and having age appropriate security and access features.
> 
> But fb is not allowed to mine information or track anyone under 13 by the laws under which it operates.



How will you do that? By asking questions only adults are capable of answering?

Kinda reminds me of the Leisure Suit Larry games.


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## Anorion (Apr 29, 2013)

Make it ok for kids to reveal age, no need to hide it 

Not gonna happen


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 29, 2013)

Anorion said:


> Make it ok for kids to reveal age, no need to hide it
> 
> Not gonna happen



so revealing ones age is the only answer, out of the 3 points you just made? This exposes them further.


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## bhautikjoshi (Apr 29, 2013)

Just like teenagers under 18 manage to smoke or drink, rarely a shop would verify their age.


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## Anorion (Apr 30, 2013)

An under 18 cannot legally Agree to the fb contract... According to govt 

Would you want your kid's photos be licensed to third parties for commercial purposes?


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## Bhargav Simha (Apr 30, 2013)

theserpent said:


> IDK, What is wrong with the GOVERMENT, All lame rules.
> Most the kids are mature by 15.
> This rule is RIDICULOUS




Yeah some Kids are even mature by 7 years.. but you need to remember some like you never mature what ever be the age  
.... It was not about creating the accounts or using but the EULA's of the company which people need to accept while creating the account... The EULA is a legal agreement, for which the user will be liable.. that is the reason for the case...


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## Desmond (Apr 30, 2013)

Anorion said:


> An under 18 cannot legally Agree to the fb contract... According to govt
> 
> Would you want your kid's photos be licensed to third parties for commercial purposes?



From FB's terms of service :



> Facebook users provide their real names and information, and we need your help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relating to registering and maintaining the security of your account:
> 1. You will not provide any false personal information on Facebook, or create an account for anyone other than yourself without permission.
> 2. You will not create more than one personal account.
> 3. If we disable your account, you will not create another one without our permission.
> ...



Well, FB has no problems for those above 13, so what is the government's problem?


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 30, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> From FB's terms of service :
> 
> 
> 
> Well, FB has no problems for those above 13, so what is the government's problem?



its in conflict with the arrangements between the parties and the majority act. Still using old archaic laws to police the internet.


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## RCuber (Apr 30, 2013)

> 7. You will keep your contact information accurate and up-to-date.



 privacy


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## HCgamer101 (Apr 30, 2013)

RCuber said:


> privacy



after facebook came along, privacy does not exist.


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## sygeek (May 1, 2013)

HCgamer101 said:


> Untitled Document
> 
> i read about what i wrote there from here.
> 
> ...


 Yeah that is correct. Even I was not allowed to create a bank account in the past, unless it was a joint account. However, some time ago my father received a call from some bank asking if he's  interested in opening a children's account. I am not aware of the clauses though.


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