# Problem with HD4670. Corrupted Display



## furious_gamer (Jul 20, 2010)

Hi friends,

           I had RMA'd my MSI HD4670 and they gave me the replacement. I picked it up to my home and plug it in. It works fine and i played some Games. But the next day, when i try to boot up, it give me the same problem that i faced with my previous card(damaged one). Also when i try to use my old 7600GS , it also gives the same problem. 

The problem is, i am getting corrupted display, ie. it looks like Win 98 @ 640x480 resolution. Previously i had the same issue.

Please tell me whether this is the Card's problem or my Motherboard's PCI-e slot problem. I need to confirm it so that i can decide whether to send it to RMA or send the Mobo to RMA.

My system spec is :

E6600
ASUS P5N-MX
Transcend 4GB DDR2
MSI HD4670 1GB
Zebronics 450W SATA II
LG 22"


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## static_x (Jul 20, 2010)

I faced the same problem when i installed my newly bought mobo. On boot up the resolution used to be 640x480 but after few seconds it use to settle down at  1920x1080.
If this is the case then you may need to update your GART drivers...


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## furious_gamer (Jul 20, 2010)

^^

No. The resolution is like 640x480 all the time. I tried it with my old 7600GS and still the same problem. FYI, my HD4670 is newly RMA'd one. So hope it wont be a problem. Please let me know if there is any chance that my mobo PCIe slot went kaput?


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## asingh (Jul 20, 2010)

Either check your cards on another system, or get a third card -- which is currently working fine from another system.


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## static_x (Jul 21, 2010)

Please specify your OS. Is is the genuine one?


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## asingh (Jul 21, 2010)

^^
What difference will that make...irrespective..?


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## furious_gamer (Jul 21, 2010)

^^



I will check some other card in my system. BTW I am only one who is having graphics in my whole village. So i need to get it  from my friends who is living some 30kms away my village. Will check it by tomorrow. 

And my OS is Windows 7.


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## static_x (Jul 21, 2010)

asigh said:


> ^^
> What difference will that make...irrespective..?



It may sound irrespective but it actually solved the same issue I've faced.
My newly bought gigabyte mobo was giving me the same problem...I got the replacement but the problem was there...The gigabyte engineer asked me to update the drivers etc but to no avail...I reinstalled the OS twice but the problem was not solved....then I installed the fresh genuine copy of the OS and everything is fine since then....


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## furious_gamer (Jul 21, 2010)

^^

I understand your point, but the thing is , installing genuine OS doesn't solved the issue. After few re-installs, the problem had solved in your case. Thats it.


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## static_x (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ 
Thats what I'm saying...I do not know the other technicalities but I was sharing my experience....
Your replaced card as well as the old one is giving the same problem..may be something with your mobo then!!!
You may then need to get another working card to test this...!!!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 21, 2010)

^^

My old 7600GS is working fine and i wasn't used it since i bought HD4670. But now, that too even not working. So, surely some issue with mobo. Let me check with my another rig and will be back if there is any problem(Ofcourse it will).


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

try installing the latest drives(download the latest from the net)! if it doesn't work, then try again reinstalling the driver! then get back to us!

---------- Post added at 12:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

also remember to download the drivers from AMDs site only! here is the link: Drivers & Support | GAME.AMD.COM


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## furious_gamer (Jul 22, 2010)

^^
Bro, do you think i wouldn't have tried that solution. That was my first attempt to solve the problem. Anyway tried to plug in the card in my office rig, but SMPS went kaput.  Will replace it and post the status


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> Bro, do you think i wouldn't have tried that solution. That was my first attempt to solve the problem. Anyway tried to plug in the card in my office rig, but SMPS went kaput.  Will replace it and post the status


did you try installing the drivers, one after the other/in a row twice with out rebooting the system? & which version of the driver did you install?


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## furious_gamer (Jul 22, 2010)

^^

I first uninstalled the driver and reboot, then installed the driver again. Still, no use.

Then i reboot the system and in safe mode, i un-installed the drivers and restart it once again to install the driver. No use.

I am using v10.6 drivers now.


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> I first uninstalled the driver and reboot, then installed the driver again. Still, no use.
> 
> ...


see wat i have written! i have told you to follow a different way & i never told you to uninstall!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 22, 2010)

^^
Well, i re-installed it as you said too, and i am damn sure that it fails. BTW Do you think it is a driver problem. B'coz if so, then why my 7600GS also giving me same problem


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> Well, i re-installed it as you said too, and i am damn sure that it fails. BTW Do you think it is a driver problem. B'coz if so, then why my 7600GS also giving me same problem


So you havn't tried it!  how can you say it'll fail without trying! 
coz 7600GS is a NVidia card & needs other drivers to work!


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## asingh (Jul 22, 2010)

^^
Can you explain me the logic of overlaying different drivers one after another without re-boot.


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## furious_gamer (Jul 22, 2010)

> *Well, i re-installed it as you said too, and i am damn sure that it fails*



Read it carefully dude. I did tried this before and IIRC, it failed. I didn't say blindly that it fails.  Chill down yaar

That 7600GS i working fine in my d/l rig.

---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 AM ----------




asigh said:


> ^^
> Can you explain me the logic of overlaying different drivers one after another without re-boot.



I dont think thats what he is talking about.


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

asigh said:


> ^^
> Can you explain me the logic of overlaying different drivers one after another without re-boot.


i'm teling him to overlay the same driver! Some time back ATI drivers had this prob that installing new drivers on old drivers wouldn't install properly & you had to install it once more!


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## asingh (Jul 22, 2010)

^^
I doubt that would work. Using Driver Sweeper seems better option. But Raj's issue seems more of hardware.


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## furious_gamer (Jul 22, 2010)

^^

You're right. It is an hardware issue. As i told you, the 7600GS i tested was working fine in another system and when i plug it in my system, it is not working. What does that mean? By any chance, does my PCI-e slot went bad?


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## mavihs (Jul 22, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> You're right. It is an hardware issue. As i told you, the 7600GS i tested was working fine in another system and when i plug it in my system, it is not working. What does that mean? By any chance, does my PCI-e slot went bad?


try the 4670 in another system! if it works, then i can think of only one place where the prob will be: Mobo! This is if its H/W prob!


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## asingh (Jul 23, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> You're right. It is an hardware issue. As i told you, the 7600GS i tested was working fine in another system and when i plug it in my system, it is not working. What does that mean? By any chance, does my PCI-e slot went bad?



Board is gone. Sorry. Is your PSU fine...?

EDIT:
No, you PSU is not fine. Just read your signature. Change it....!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 23, 2010)

^^

Dude, if my board is gone, them how i am gonna use my system with onboard gfx. Yes, its working fine with IGP. And nope, PSU is newly bought one and its working perfectly. I am damn sure about that. And what bout my siggy?


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## asingh (Jul 23, 2010)

^^
Onboard GFX is not related to PSU as much as using a HD5770. That Zebby 450W PSU is totally doubtful. 

Also your IGP  could be fine, and PCI.E Dock gone bad, which translates to a bad board. By signature I meant, I read about your PSU.


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## furious_gamer (Jul 23, 2010)

^^

Yeah, thats what i am saying. My PCIe may went bad. But that doesnt make my board bad?


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## borax12 (Jul 23, 2010)

.....yaar this is a problem with the OS and driver........not the gpu......psu problems could also lead to such visual degradation...but....as the board is being powered ...up full...ie its booting up...so that must not be an issue....i believe the issue could also be the pci-e slot....see if the small...jumpers besides the pci-e slots are not bent...these jumpers are alongside the slot......generally not present in newer baords...or otherwise...unistall the previous....drivers and control center using revo unistaller...and then resinstallt the correct driver....heres the link...Drivers & Support | GAME.AMD.COM

also updating the mobo drivers are better.....how many pci-e slots do u have on ur board...if its like u have 2 then check the card on the other slot too...


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## furious_gamer (Jul 23, 2010)

Well you dont expect a low end mobo to have 2 PCIe slots. BTW I am damn sure that its not an driver issue. Dude, read my prev posts and you may know that i've tried every possible s/w troubleshooting, but it failed.


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## asingh (Jul 23, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> Yeah, thats what i am saying. My PCIe may went bad. But that doesnt make my board bad?



Well  best of luck getting 'just' the PCI.E dock corrected...!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 23, 2010)

asigh said:


> Well  best of luck getting 'just' the PCI.E dock corrected...!



Can i get the product replaced as its still under warranty? I bought it in Feb 2009 and it has two years of warranty. So, if i send it now, can i get a replacement or the same board get repaired?


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## borax12 (Jul 23, 2010)

......yeah better to get it replaced.....as this is surely a problem with either the power management on your boards...(.coz...every card you install is not working properly.....btw did u check the jumper pins alongside the pci-e slot i was talking abt.)or the  psu 6 pin that powering your card......check that it is in a proper state......or not...hope that helps...


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## furious_gamer (Jul 23, 2010)

borax12 said:


> or* the  psu 6 pin that powering your card*......check that it is in a proper state......or not...hope that helps...



I dont have such power connector for my GPU. You know, its HD4670, no need for external power.



borax12 said:


> *jumper pins alongside the pci-e slot i was talking abt*.)


The jumper pins are looking good and ok.


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## borax12 (Jul 23, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> I dont have such power connector for my GPU. You know, its HD4670, no need for external power.
> 
> 
> The jumper pins are looking good and ok.



....hey actually i got it.....thats correct there no aux power requirement for this card.....then its definitely a problem with the pci-e slot....get it repaired or replace the board as its still in the warranty....sorry we couldn,t help more on this...


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## asingh (Jul 24, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> Can i get the product replaced as its still under warranty? I bought it in Feb 2009 and it has two years of warranty. So, if i send it now, can i get a replacement or the same board get repaired?




RMA time..!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^

 Not again, i've just RMA'd my gfx card, RMA'd my RAM few months before and now! *sigh*


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## mavihs (Jul 24, 2010)

you wud have less of these probs if you had a good SMPS!


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

mavihs said:


> you wud have less of these probs if you had a good SMPS!



What! You still think my PSU is the problem. Man, its working like a charm and for my config, this is enough IMO. May be, i'll get a FSP Saga 500W in a few months. (Spending a fortune in PC, i am not into that. If i earn some big bucks, sure i will do that )


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jul 24, 2010)

change that smps before getting a new mobo
it is not good
get atleast fsp saga 2 400w @ 2k


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^

Man, are u sure that SMPS is the root cause for the problem. FYI, my another rig E7400+ASUS P5K-PL-CM+4GB DDR2+7600GS+1TB HDD+2 ODD's running on a Frontech 450W SMPS w/o any problem for the past 7 months.  If its so, then how come this Zebby would be a problem.

Please explain this to me, i am totally confused.


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## coderunknown (Jul 24, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> Not again, i've just RMA'd my gfx card, RMA'd my RAM few months before and now! *sigh*



or send board for RMA, get hold of a G31 board. after the board return from RMA, sell it. its not a advice, suggestion. 



mavihs said:


> you wud have less of these probs if you had a good SMPS!





rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> Man, are u sure that SMPS is the root cause for the problem. FYI, my another rig E7400+ASUS P5K-PL-CM+4GB DDR2+7600GS+1TB HDD+2 ODD's running on a Frontech 450W SMPS w/o any problem for the past 7 months.  If its so, then how come this Zebby would be a problem.
> 
> Please explain this to me, i am totally confused.



its sufficiant but your pc will require 200W or more power. a 450W zebby will offer 250W power at load. max. as you told you using that PSU for 7 months, your PSU's wattage already fallen to 200W or below. so my advice, change PSU to avoid furthur problem or else stick to it & prepare for another RMA soon


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> or send board for RMA, get hold of a G31 board. after the board return from RMA, sell it. its not a advice, suggestion.


Will send that board to RMA and use my old D101GCC until i got my board back.



Sam.Shab said:


> its sufficiant but your pc will require 200W or more power. a 450W zebby will offer 250W power at load. max. as you told you using that PSU for 7 months, your PSU's wattage already fallen to 200W or below. so my advice, change PSU to avoid furthur problem or else stick to it & prepare for another RMA soon



Well, i am not sure whether this is the PSU problem, and hey, i said i am using the Frontech 450W with that config for 7 months. Not this rig. For this rig, i am using this PSU for around 1.5 years. 

But anyhow, i will atleast get FSP Saga 500W within two months. (Man, spending 2.7k in PSU is a big investment, at least for me)


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jul 24, 2010)

i still advise change of psu before getting a new mobo to be sure of no further problems..fsp saga 2 400w @ 2k is sufficient for you


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^

But anyhow RMA of ASUS here take at least a month (That sucks ), so no need for PSU till i get the replacement. After that i'll get FSP Saga 500W (Man just 700 bucks more, you have enuff power for future upgrades). Yes i already have one 320GB+500GB and will add more. So no harm in getting a 500W, on a safer side.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jul 24, 2010)

500w will be good if you can get it...go ahead


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^
BTW How about the warranty for FSP Saga PSU? Any other good brands at that range (within 3k), preferably a 450W?


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

Cooler Master Real Power Pro 460W Power Supply-3.2K
or else the
Corsair CMPSU-400CX 400W Power Supply-2.9 K
or else increasing the budget get the best choice
-Corsair 450W Power Supply (MPSU-450VX)-3.9K


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^

Well 3k is after i stretch my budget  . So cant push any further.

So among these CX400 looks fine and CM-RP 460W = CX400W? Am i rite?

BTW I asked "Hows the warranty of FSP Saga? Does they have any Service Centre in Chennai/B'lore?"


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> Well 3k is after i stretch my budget  . So cant push any further.
> 
> ...




avtually no....the wattages are different...and i f u are asking abt the performance comparision...yes they wud perfomr equally....no need to worry....
as for the service and warranty of fsp saga-

check here-FSP

and regarding the avaiablity of fps service center in chennai.....ask these people
*
Mr. Venkatesan*
*Prime Source Technologies PVT. LTD*
Tel:	42060252, 9841517403.
Email:	venkat@primesourceindia.com

Address:	#24/1, RAMAKRISHNA STREET T. NAGAR, CHENNAI-600 017 INDIA

Website:	Welcome to Prime Source


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## furious_gamer (Jul 24, 2010)

^^

Thanks dude. BTW The FSP Site link you provided was blocked by Mozilla. BTW Will try to contact them and lets check with the RMA details too. (Man, i am talking more about RMA these days. I am sick of this , )


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## coderunknown (Jul 24, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> Will send that board to RMA and use my old D101GCC until i got my board back.



isn't this board based on Radeon Xpress 200 with DDR memory? if yes it won't support Core2Duo. only Dual Core.



rajkumar_pb said:


> Well, i am not sure whether this is the PSU problem, and hey, i said i am using the Frontech 450W with that config for 7 months. Not this rig. For this rig, i am using this PSU for around *1.5 years*.



than its excellent. HD4670 is a good power hungry card. getting close to the 75W threshhold limit. so if it gets less power (from a 1.5yr old underrated, underpowered, super Indian PSU) theres every chance it'll go bad & now i think its turn of the board. your call now.



rajkumar_pb said:


> But anyhow, i will atleast get FSP Saga 500W within two months. (Man, spending 2.7k in PSU is a big investment, at least for me)



is a big deal for me too (ordered 400W Saga II, not yet reached). but to ensure nothing bad happens to my machine (from power problems), its a wise move.


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## vwad (Jul 24, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> isn't this board based on Radeon Xpress 200 with DDR memory? if yes it won't support Core2Duo. only Dual Core.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whats your rig sam for which you ordered FSP Saga II 400W  ? May I know ?


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> than its excellent. HD4670 is a good power hungry card. getting close to the 75W threshhold limit. so if it gets less power (from a 1.5yr old underrated, underpowered, super Indian PSU) theres every chance it'll go bad & now i think its turn of the board. your call now.



said it right sam...but remember this....his old pc has no other hardware that sucks juice....so a 75w extracton form a atleast >60% effecient 400 w powers supply would definitely work good......

but still its better to go with an upgrade though....but not necessary....but i believe this fsp saga psu......that ..rajkumars interested in is for the newer build i believe...the one on which the hd 4670 was installed.....and theres no relation with the older psu (frontech one)with this....


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## coderunknown (Jul 24, 2010)

vwad said:


> Whats your rig sam for which you ordered FSP Saga II 400W  ? May I know ?



the PSU along with graphics card, ram & cabby not yet reached me. well just a rough idea: Athlon II X4. 785G. 4Gb DDR3. HD5670 & a WD 500Gb.



borax12 said:


> said it right sam...but remember this....his old pc has no other hardware that sucks juice....so a 75w extracton form a atleast >60% effecient 400 w powers supply would definitely work good......
> 
> but still its better to go with an upgrade though....but not necessary....but i believe this fsp saga psu......that ..rajkumars interested in is for the newer build i believe...the one on which the hd 4670 was installed.....and theres no relation with the older psu (frontech one)with this....



well thats true. the card looks to be hungriest of all. 

BUT, a zebby PSU have low 12V rail current supply. so total power will top at 250W (for a 450W unit) & with time. a long time (1.5yrs) it'll already be at 200W. so its best to change. but still i doubt my own words, will a 70-75W card damage the PCIe X 16 slot just by extrating current? sounds strange 

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------




vwad said:


> Whats your rig sam for which you ordered FSP Saga II 400W  ? May I know ?



the PSU along with graphics card, ram & cabby not yet reached me. well just a rough idea: Athlon II X4. 785G. 4Gb DDR3. HD5670 & a WD 500Gb.



borax12 said:


> said it right sam...but remember this....his old pc has no other hardware that sucks juice....so a 75w extracton form a atleast >60% effecient 400 w powers supply would definitely work good......
> 
> but still its better to go with an upgrade though....but not necessary....but i believe this fsp saga psu......that ..rajkumars interested in is for the newer build i believe...the one on which the hd 4670 was installed.....and theres no relation with the older psu (frontech one)with this....



well thats true. the card looks to be hungriest of all. 

BUT, a zebby PSU have low 12V rail current supply. so total power will top at 250W (for a 450W unit) & with time. a long time (1.5yrs) it'll already be at 200W. so its best to change. but still i doubt my own words, will a 70-75W card damage the PCIe X 16 slot just by extrating current? sounds strange


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

.....every 12 volt rail provides it own amperage....so a total of 200w outpu is more than enough for a card for supply....
and no it will not damage the slot...the card uses only that much of poer...thats required.....and ...regarding the power supplies degradation over time....thats not quite correct....as the power supply doesn't have any fuel thats powering it....the lesser output than provided and rated power output(400w in this case)....is becoz the entire power is divided into rails....of 12v,3.3v,and 5 v...so u have different amperages applied to each rail....that what make only 250 w being supplied through the 12 v rail......
and there is  also the power correction factor that reduces it to probably 200w (the dc to ac conversion factor)...so thus thats how it works....

and no it will not damage the pci-e slot...ven if the card requires 70-75 w....as only the required amount is extracted...so no  worries on that...a


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## vwad (Jul 24, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> the PSU along with graphics card, ram & cabby not yet reached me. well just a rough idea: Athlon II X4. 785G. 4Gb DDR3. HD5670 & a WD 500Gb.



The reason why I was asking regarding FSP is to know that whether it is actually 500W or not ? OR is it same like cooler master psus ? LOL  and further for 955 BE & NGTS250 twin frozr card, will it be sufficient or not


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

.......vwad...read my above post.....this explains it...u actually never get the rated output.....(that 80% efficiency u see is related to this,....)and yes it will be sufficient...but i believe to go for a psu rated a 100 watt more than is advisable always...but his shouldn't pose a problem....


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## vwad (Jul 24, 2010)

borax12 said:


> .......vwad...read my above post.....this explains it...u actually never get the rated output.....(that 80% efficiency u see is related to this,....)and yes it will be sufficient...but i believe to go for a psu rated a 100 watt more than is advisable always...but his shouldn't pose a problem....



hmm LOL what a hypocrisy !! why dont they just tell the actual LOL why this percentage chaos LOL, may be a marketing technique for unknowledgables :sarcastic:


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

ha ha...actually u should tell what the psu is capable of...what the system has been intended for...but somehow...to make costs cuts...the efficiency is targeted...u see?


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## asingh (Jul 24, 2010)

Raj, end of the day.

Just RMA your board. Use the D101GGC (yes is cr$$, had it once upon a time). Get a decent PSU. Please. If you plan to OC then the CX400 is quite useless. You would need to move to the league of Corsair/Tagan/Seasonic/Glacialtech -- as per your power requirement. Though your over all primary rig is fine, I am recommending slightly higher end PSUs, cause you will be future proof. You can slip in a higher GPU/CPU, OC the skin off them and not have to worry.


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## borax12 (Jul 24, 2010)

cx400 from corsair i believe?......and i guess the board he has...has a very limiting o'clking ability


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## asingh (Jul 24, 2010)

borax12 said:


> .......vwad...read my above post.....this explains it...u actually never get the rated output.....(that 80% efficiency u see is related to this,....)and yes it will be sufficient...but i believe to go for a psu rated a 100 watt more than is advisable always...but his shouldn't pose a problem....





vwad said:


> hmm LOL what a hypocrisy !! why dont they just tell the actual LOL why this percentage chaos LOL, may be a marketing technique for unknowledgables :sarcastic:



What you guys mean by this..?

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------




borax12 said:


> cx400 from corsair i believe?......and i guess the board he has...has a very limiting o'clking ability



I know Raj.  Believe me....!


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## borax12 (Jul 25, 2010)

asigh said:


> What you guys mean by this..?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------
> 
> ...



first of all regarding ur first query.....we were talking abt  psu's....that we don't get the rated wattage...of the psu in actual usage scenarios....due the power correction factor being involved and the amperage being divided into rails...and efficiency involved...a rated 400 w psu will never give output more than 320W...(officially)...but its actually even lesser than that....hope that explains asigh...

and regarding the 2nd post of yours....

i believe this is what raj has....and will not be able to o'clock that much...there is only limited frequency and voltage control options available 
on that board


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## furious_gamer (Jul 25, 2010)

asigh said:


> What you guys mean by this..?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------
> 
> ...



^^ Is it? I wonder if someone know about me 



borax12 said:


> first of all regarding ur first query.....we were talking abt  psu's....that we don't get the rated wattage...of the psu in actual usage scenarios....due the power correction factor being involved and the amperage being divided into rails...and efficiency involved...a rated 400 w psu will never give output more than 320W...(officially)...but its actually even lesser than that....hope that explains asigh...
> 
> and regarding the 2nd post of yours....
> 
> ...



Not at all. I am OC'er. Didn't you noticed my siggy? I OCed my E6600 @ 3GHz and want to go further but due to the excessive heat and unstable PSU, i was stuck @ 3GHz and i also OCed my gfx card a mere 16MHz core, 12Mhz memory and unable to go further.

So dont think i don't OC much. I will OC very often even to find the FPS difference in games 

This board offers enough control options regd OCing, well, at least for me.


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## coderunknown (Jul 25, 2010)

borax12 said:


> .regarding the power supplies degradation over time....thats not quite correct....as the power supply doesn't have any fuel thats powering it.



but PSU have capacitors. low grade caps. will dry up over time & will give less power. eg: pick up any desi/local made PSU. but good one continue for long. Corsair is best example.



vwad said:


> The reason why I was asking regarding FSP is to know that whether it is actually 500W or not ? OR is it same like cooler master psus ? LOL  and further for 955 BE & NGTS250 twin frozr card, will it be sufficient or not



i ordered a 400W FSP. as i hardly do any heavy upgrades, so a 500W or so unit will be of least use. 400W suites me best.



borax12 said:


> .......vwad...read my above post.....this explains it...u actually never get the rated output.....(that 80% efficiency u see is related to this,....)and yes it will be sufficient...but i believe to go for a psu rated a 100 watt more than is advisable always...but his shouldn't pose a problem....



@*asigh*, you mentioned in an earlier post in some other thread that a 400W PSU will offer 400W power but will suck more power according to its efficiency rating, if i remember it correctly. now from what i can can get from *borax*'s post is that a 400W PSU with 80% efficiency will offer only 80/100 X 400 = 320W. now which one is correct?


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## borax12 (Jul 25, 2010)

you are correct sam...this is what i meant ..and i know for sure that is what efficiency means......


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## furious_gamer (Jul 25, 2010)

^^
Well efficiency/100 x Wattage = output. This is  right one.

Thats why people prefer a 80% efficiency Corsair rather than 65-70% CM PSU's (I am not sure but still some CM PSU's are rated with 70% efficiency)

@asigh
For the above statement, correct me, if i am wrong.


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## borax12 (Jul 25, 2010)

.....u are correct friend(only if u do trust me)......yes the cm extreme and gx series psu come with a 70-75% efficiency...


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## furious_gamer (Jul 25, 2010)

^^

I trust you, but since asigh is much more into this, and thats why i asked him. Anyway thanks for confirming it. (I just started to forgot these things, due to the dedicated development process )


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## borax12 (Jul 25, 2010)

you know what ...me and asigh.....are into making a full fledged vid and blog based guide for pc  building...with info on everything in it......form scratch to a full details to o'clock the system....its gonna contain everything....i have completed the half of draft.....just need to make the vid now....(though i have an old p4 based desktop...but will still film on it...due to unavailability of newer hardware....so please bear )


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## furious_gamer (Jul 25, 2010)

^^ 
Thats a good idea. Not important that you got a P4, but you did some work to show people that what is OCing and all, so no harm in it.


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## borax12 (Jul 25, 2010)

not done it yet....but yeah on the way.....it will be a great fun.....


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## vwad (Jul 25, 2010)

borax12 said:


> you know what ...me and asigh.....are into making a full fledged vid and blog based guide for pc  building...with info on everything in it......form scratch to a full details to o'clock the system....its gonna contain everything....i have completed the half of draft.....just need to make the vid now....(though i have an old p4 based desktop...but will still film on it...due to unavailability of newer hardware....so please bear )





borax12 said:


> not done it yet....but yeah on the way.....it will be a great fun.....



Thanks a ton borax bhai for taking time, money and effort for us :adore:



rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> Thats a good idea. Not important that you got a P4, but you did some work to show people that what is OCing and all, so no harm in it.



Indeed


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jul 25, 2010)

actually you all are wrong...asigh was right

suppose that u are having a 400w unit which is 70% efficient...this means that to deliver 400w the psu will pull about 570w ac power from the wall. so 170w is being wasted..its converted into heat which is bad for the pc....

a high efficient unit will pull less power, produce less heat and save electricity bills also..

efficiency = dc power/ ac power * 100

good luck borax for the guide...appreciate it...p4 does not matter dude..
it will be really helpful to me also in ocing as i dont know much about it.


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## asingh (Jul 25, 2010)

Okay guys, for the record. Many guys have a misconception about efficiency here. It is not efficiency multiplied to the rating -- to get the throughput. 

*This does not work:*
PSU rating = 750W
Efficiency rating = 80%
PSU Draw = 750W
PSU Throughput = 750 x (80/100) = 600W

*This works:*
PSU rating = 750W (A)
Efficiency rating = 80%
PSU Draw = 750 / (80/100) = 937.5 (B)
PSU Throughput = 750W

*Calculated Efficiency* = (A/B) * 100  = 80%

The efficiency clearly translates too, how much power is drawn from the socket (which you are billed for), to the ratio of how much clean usable power it can provide as output.

*Efficiency Level Certifications:*
These are industry standards which say, how much constant, spike free power a PSU will supply at three different load levels. For example: _To qualify for 80 PLUS, a power supply must achieve at least 80% efficiency at three specified loads (20%, 50% and 100% of maximum rated power) _ To get this certification it must pass all tests at 50C, as the temperature metric. 

*The current ratings are:*
*img26.imageshack.us/img26/8331/energylevelscertificati.jpg


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## vwad (Jul 25, 2010)

asigh said:


> Okay guys, for the record. Many guys have a misconception about efficiency here. It is not efficiency multiplied to the rating -- to get the throughput.
> 
> *This does not work:*
> PSU rating = 750W
> ...



Thanks a lot for detailed clarification :adore:


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## furious_gamer (Jul 26, 2010)

asigh said:


> Okay guys, for the record. Many guys have a misconception about efficiency here. It is not efficiency multiplied to the rating -- to get the throughput.
> 
> *This does not work:*
> PSU rating = 750W
> ...



This is why i asked asigh. He always give such detailed explanation. Thanks asigh (No offense meant on you borax. )

So, if this is the case, then why would a Zebby 450W PSU is not enough for me. If i do the math, it will draw as much power needed for my rig. So why everyone complain about Zebby PSUs.


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## asingh (Jul 26, 2010)

^^
Because the Zebronics 450W is a sub-par unit. It will not be able to provide the correct amps on the rail when actually 450W is required. It will be highly inefficient too.


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## vwad (Jul 26, 2010)

asigh said:


> ^^
> Because the Zebronics 450W is a sub-par unit. It will not be able to provide the correct amps on the rail when actually 450W is required. It will be highly inefficient too.



What will you say about FSP Saga II 500W in this same context ?


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## furious_gamer (Jul 26, 2010)

^^ 
OK, i had used Zebby 450W PSU with my rig for the past one year and its working till now. If the PSU is working properly, then how it could damaged the Motherboard? Also HD4670 is not power-hungry(I know, i know it needs 70W @ load), but see the rest of my spec, it dont need much power(I mean not more than 450W , I guess so). So why would everyone blame on PSU?


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## asingh (Jul 26, 2010)

vwad said:


> What will you say about FSP Saga II 500W in this same context ?



No, that is a better unit.



rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> OK, i had used Zebby 450W PSU with my rig for the past one year and its working till now. If the PSU is working properly, then how it could damaged the Motherboard? Also HD4670 is not power-hungry(I know, i know it needs 70W @ load), but see the rest of my spec, it dont need much power(I mean not more than 450W , I guess so). So why would everyone blame on PSU?



See we are not directly blaming the PSU. We can only troubleshoot offers suggestions sitting so far away. If I had your board I would have checked each node systematically for continuity using a multi-meter. At best get the board verified/RMA'ed, and change the PSU for future reference. It is the weakest link in there.


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## furious_gamer (Jul 26, 2010)

^^

I know that you guys were helping me, But AFAIK, i never heard a single good review of Zebby 450W PSU from any member of TDF. Thats why i asked.

Anyhow the problem is with the board, confirmed. Coz no matter whatever gfc card i plugin, its not working. Only IGP is working.


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## vwad (Jul 26, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> ^^
> 
> I know that you guys were helping me, But AFAIK, i never heard a single good review of Zebby 450W PSU from any member of TDF. Thats why i asked.
> 
> Anyhow the problem is with the board, confirmed. Coz no matter whatever gfc card i plugin, its not working. Only IGP is working.



Looks like its gonna be one more RMA for you  this sucks, doesnt it


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## furious_gamer (Jul 26, 2010)

vwad said:


> Looks like its gonna be one more RMA for you  this sucks, doesnt it


Yup. 

Tired of RMA..

BTW After RMA I'm thinking about getting a new mobo+psu combo. Yup, don't wanna waste my time in RMA's.

My next purchase, i will make sure that i got a good thing, unlike my previous purchase where everything went wrong.


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## vwad (Jul 26, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> Yup.
> 
> Tired of RMA..
> 
> ...



I hear lot of recommending MSI, Gigabyte as brands  Tough competition though when it comes to GPUs, war of titans in market as well as here between nvidia and ATI 

Regarding PSUs, I think Corsair 550W at 4.9k will be great (price source = theitwares.com)


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## furious_gamer (Jul 26, 2010)

^^

For my rig VX450W is more than enough. BTW As i said earlier in this thread, i will go for FSP Saga II 500W @ 2.7k.

Regd mobo, i'll get Gigabyte G31-S2L.


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## coderunknown (Jul 26, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> This is why i asked asigh. He always give such detailed explanation. Thanks asigh (No offense meant on you borax. )



i already mentioned about this. read about this efficiency thing from asigh in some thread a couple of months ago.



rajkumar_pb said:


> So, if this is the case, then why would a Zebby 450W PSU is not enough for me. If i do the math, it will draw as much power needed for my rig. So why everyone complain about Zebby PSUs.



1st. its easily below 65% efficient.
2nd, i not know whats the reading of 12V rail is provided in the side of the PSU. but in realty, its very very low. your motherboard is taking the beating. if yu try calculate the power delivered (i not know hows that possible as you'll have to find 12V rail current first) it'll come out to be ~300-350W at max. & as you already used it for long time, it'll be much lower.



rajkumar_pb said:


> Yup.
> 
> Tired of RMA..
> 
> ...



Raj, you better change your name to "rajkumar_RMA". & to avoid being called by that name, next time choose the items carefully & also kick that Zebby out of house ASAP. you lucky that PowerColor changed your card so easily.


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## furious_gamer (Jul 27, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> 1st. its easily below 65% efficient.
> 2nd, i not know whats the reading of 12V rail is provided in the side of the PSU. but in realty, its very very low. your motherboard is taking the beating. if yu try calculate the power delivered (i not know hows that possible as you'll have to find 12V rail current first) it'll come out to be ~300-350W at max. & as you already used it for long time, it'll be much lower.



Well, i got that man.



Sam.Shab said:


> Raj, you better change your name to "rajkumar_RMA". & to avoid being called by that name, next time choose the items carefully & also kick that Zebby out of house ASAP. you lucky that *PowerColor changed your card so easily*.



LOL.  
What does the highlighted sentence means?


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## coderunknown (Jul 27, 2010)

rajkumar_pb said:


> What does the highlighted sentence means?



oops. my mistake. i mean MSI


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## furious_gamer (Jul 27, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> oops. my mistake. i mean MSI





Well, may be i am lucky with this only.....


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