# Ford Foundation and its alleged CIA connections



## Ironman (Apr 24, 2015)

> World's largest NGO funding agency the Ford Foundation has now come under the scanner of the government of India. As expected it has led to a controversy.
> 
> Some beneficiaries of the Ford Foundation money and some activists are up in the arms condemning the government's decision to put Ford Foundation under the surveillance of intelligence agencies.
> 
> ...



*** - I have been telling everyone this , but nobody believed me !


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## gemini90 (Apr 24, 2015)

Another link which details FF's FCRA activities

Foreign Funding to Indian NGOs : Organizations which received funds from Ford Foundation via FCRA:2006-2012

Take a look - it is interesting. There are a few open EJs there, but large number seem to be focussed on political & social activism, not religious.

But when you look a little deeply, they are nearly all run by Evangelists and receive funds from similar parties.

Fcra OnLine Services

Click on 2014-15 and Choose Andhra. 

Just as an example choose, no. 25 " Samantha Community Development and Welfare Society", their name does not look religious. They classify themselves as social org (hit on the link for their name). But scroll down and see the donor "Canadian Baptist Ministries".

Similarly no. 28,

"Society for Helpless & Economically Backward Area". Classified as Social org, name is not religious

See the donor list and the same conclusion is reached.


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## amjath (Apr 24, 2015)

Why Ford did it? What they get from this?


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## Anorion (Apr 24, 2015)

something is fishy here

I donno what is happening here, but what should not be happening is: the government using the intelligence bureau and the home ministry as another tool in it's image building /PR machinery. Using tactics to suppress and pressurize NGOs that are doing good work and that raise dissenting voices and don't agree with all the policies of the government, as part of their work. Again, not saying this is happening, just saying it should not be happening.

 Crackdown on NGOs was long overdue: Home Ministry - timesofindia-economictimes


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## gemini90 (Apr 24, 2015)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] There is a difference between subversive and legal/valid activities.

How come changing demographics of a country through illegal means and stopping developmental activities by encouraging and leading to social discontent leagal and valid?

And Gov. keeping tabs on the activities of NGO's and their backers is not new. Happens in every country, whether dictatorship or democracy, since days immemorial.


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## beingGamer (Apr 24, 2015)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] I read at many places that Ford foundation has been funding organizations which they feel can destabilize India.
I think i read one topic on OpIndia.com - news reports and analysis from India recently. ran by 2 youths only & they are doing great job at exposing media & orgs just by doing google searches


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 24, 2015)

next after greenpiss! way to go!
BTW, the surveillance and pressure is more on _foreign-funded_ NGOs, than the domestic ones, if am correct.


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## amjath (Apr 24, 2015)

Whats wrong with green peace. They come to our office for donation and government helps them by giving donators tax exceptions


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

this is nothing new; but what's new is that post the Indira Gandhi Govt., this is the first one that's taken a cautious & stern stance against such 'contractors for agitations' (in that that they haven't outrightly clamped down on their activities, but have started actively monitoring their accounts, plus suspended their license/registration). you may have to read a lot on the presence and activities of such fronts (FF, GP et al) which are giving genuine NGOs a very bad name. but nevertheless, had you come across the recent fiasco over Indian tea? anyway, these all are a part of psy war ops that's being raged since decades (put simply, the game of sabotaging the attempts of those who are striving to come up to challenge a dominator's position). many cases, very murky, and will require a good study. even i went through some of it recently. what's funny is that countries like The Terrorist State of Baakistan, Bangladesh and such, which utmost require such gracious 'NGOs' more than anyone else, they have next-to-none presence of them there. @Ironman and @gemini90 can provide a primer on that much better.


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

oh well who is to decide after the PM accuses even the judiciary to be swayed by these five star activists
PM Modi Cautions Judiciary Against '5-Star Activists,' Urges Self-Assessment

so these NGOs... staffed by Indian citizens working with Indian locals, are allegedly being used by CIA, terrorists, money launderers and missionaries for their own benefit... anyone left out?


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

via@Tracking Evangelism

"India is a dark nation" "Idol Worship is common" "More ppl have tasted Pepsi than they've heard name of Jesus"

*vimeo.com/125865199

Single org. Single year. 17 crores from USA. 53k new converts. 4 lakh baptisms which itself is conversion too.

Fcra OnLine Services

*indiamission.org/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2014-05-14-at-11.50.56-AM.png

- - - Updated - - -

*US seeks clarification from India on Ford Foundation issue*



> Press Trust of India | Washington Apr 25, 2015 02:28 AM IST
> 
> The United States today expressed concern over India's crackdown on Ford Foundation and Greenpeace,and said it is seeking "clarification" on the action.
> 
> "We are aware that the (Indian) Ministry of Home Affairs suspended the registration of Greenpeace India and has placed the Ford Foundation on a prior permission watch list," the State Department Deputy Acting Spokesperson, Marie Harf, told reporters at her daily news conference.



Why is Govt of USA making it a Govt to Govt problem when a duly elected GoI suspends what is officially a charity foundations work in India?


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

^link please

that video is horrible
hopefully people can see past it


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## Ironman (Apr 25, 2015)

Anorion said:


> so these NGOs... staffed by Indian citizens working with Indian locals, are allegedly being used by CIA, terrorists, money launderers and missionaries for their own benefit... anyone left out?




Left Out ... Yes

List of intelligence agencies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Afghanistan: NDS Albania: SHISH Algeria: DRS Argentina: SI Australia: ASIS Azerbaijan: MTN Bahrain: NSA Bangladesh: NSI Belarus: KGB RB Belgium: ADIV/SGRS Bosnia and Herzegovina: OSA-OBA Brazil: ABIN Brunei: BRD Cameroon: BMM Canada: CSIS Chad: ANS Chile: ANI China: MSS Croatia: SOA Cuba: DI Czech Republic: ÚZSI Denmark: FE Djibouti: BSRG Ecuador: SENAIN Egypt: GID Estonia: TA France: DGSE Gambia: NIA Georgia: GIS Germany: BND Ghana: BNI, BGU, RDU Greece: EYP Hungary: IH India: RAW Indonesia: BIN Iran: VAJA Iraq: GSD Republic of Ireland: G2 Israel: Mossad Italy: AISE Ivory Coast: NSC Japan: NPA CIRO Jordan: GID Kazakhstan: Syrbar Kenya: NIS Kyrgyzstan: SNB Kuwait: KSS Latvia: SAB Lithuania: VSD Lebanon: GDGS Libya: MJ Republic of Macedonia: UBK Malaysia: MEIO Maldives: NSS Mexico: CISEN Mongolia: GIA Montenegro: ANB Morocco: DGST Mozambique: SISE Netherlands: AIVD New Zealand: NAB Nigeria: NIA Norway: E-tjenesten Pakistan: ISI Papua New Guinea: NIO Philippines: NICA Poland: AW Portugal: SIED Qatar: QSS Romania: SIE Russia: SVR Saudi Arabia: GIP Serbia: BIA Sierra Leone: CISU Singapore: SID Slovakia: SIS Slovenia: SOVA Somalia: NISA South Africa: SASS South Korea: NIS Spain: CNI Sri Lanka: SIS Sudan: JAWM Switzerland: NDB Syria: GSD Taiwan: NSB Tajikistan: MoS Togo: NIA Tunisia: TIA Turkey: MİT Turkmenistan: KNB Uganda: ISO Ukraine: SZRU United Arab Emirates: UAEI United Kingdom: SIS (MI6) United States: CIA Uzbekistan: SNB Vietnam: TC2


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

lol. ty. 
original IB report
IB-Report-NGOs June 2014

wording is pretty clear, which makes the intentions also pretty clear. It is simply that these NGOs are in the way of development. 

august last year greenpeace worked with 50,000 forest dwellers in 54 villages to prevent the forest being acquired for a coal mine > Local groups push to save India's Mahan forest from coal future | News | Eco-Business | Asia Pacific
in march this year, the villagers were successful in their stand against Hindalco and Essar Greenpeace celebrates landmark victory in dispute over Mahan forest » TckTckTck | The Global Call for Climate Action 

timing for this pressure now seems suspicious. no conversions in this case.  

apart from that, there were some peaceful resolutions and even praise between the government, industries and NGOs on some matters, pesticide in tea, solar panels that give back to the grid.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

the '5-star activists' remark wasn't just spoken in jest; it applies to a very particular set of people, and rightly miffs some (the likes of Madame Suzanne Arundhati Roy, Angana Chatterji et al, those very same ones, on a 'mission' to locate mass-graves of people in Gujarat under Hillary Clinton's initiatives, but found only buffalo-skeletons, and who while each of the day that the Narmada dam project was delayed for atleast a decade and the villagers of Kutchh had to walk miles to fetch water, were sipping pellegrino; the reports of the villagers weeping in relief and gratitude for, yes, their Govt., eventually opening the canals carrying clear water, are a damning condemnation of these traitors). just because its fashionable to lambast one's govt. on any and everything and to associate oneself with some seemingly 'noble' causes as modern-day devotees of righteousness, the reports of investigations being carried out since atleast more than a decade shouldn't be overlooked (and yes, such reports were tabled to our Singh saahab too during his tenure, but except for pulling up the US-stooge Udayakumar once, it was business as usual). this is a copy of the detailed report from IB that was presented last year:

IB Report on NGO

before someone feels the impulse to brush the report aside (again, as its fashionable to appear 'progressive' today by cursing your govt. and its agencies), it would do good to read a bit on the brilliant, mild-mannered gentleman Mr. S.A. Rizvi. the findings of the report above are certainly not new. 
a damage to GDP-growth at the rate of 2-3% P.A. is serious, and amounts to 'economic terrorism'. a feature of that very same thing can be glanced over here thus - among some of the unsung proactive measures taken by the Govt., this was one:

Rs 16 lakh crore stalled investment greets Narendra Modi-led BJP govt - Financial Express



> As many as 285 projects, involving investment over Rs 16 lakh crore, are pending with the government, part of the legacy the new government has inherited from the UPA. These have been held up either for want of clearance or because of obstacles created as a result of turf wars among various ministries during the UPA regime.
> 
> Amid the perception of policy paralysis in turn paralysing the economy during the previous regime, a project monitoring group (PMG) was set up under the cabinet secretariat last June. The PMG, headed by Anil Swarup, an additional secretary-ranked officer, was assigned 437 projects worth over Rs 21 lakh crore. It has resolved issues relating to 152 projects in the last one year, paving the way for investments worth Rs 5.32 lakh crore.
> 
> ...



*i.imgur.com/PEEaqvg.jpg

the PM had responded quickly by providing the above-cited PMG more authority:

Narendra Modi govt to modify UPA's brainchild PMG, give more teeth - Financial Express



> While the present mandate of PMG, which operates as a division under the cabinet secretariat, is to coordinate with line ministries to expedite the required clearances for stuck projects, sources said the new NDA government wants the PMG to go beyond that. In fact, the government is thinking of revamping the entire project clearance mechanism.
> 
> "The PMG could be morphed into a different institution. Chances are it will be strengthened," an official told FE, adding the division could continue to remain under the oversight of the cabinet secretariat. It may act as a nodal body that synchronises clearances with similar bodies at the state level.
> 
> ...



coming to greenpeace alone, some of the highlights of IB/MHA reports and other interesting info:

- recently, their 'research'-paper titled 'trouble brewing on the Indian tea' was published, alleging that India tea contains moderate-to-high amounts of pesticides and shouldn't be consumed. the brands mentioned are exported to america, britain, europe. but where was the 'research' and 'testing' conducted was not disclosed by GP, and the requests to do so were declined, citing "we do not disclose our sources to third-parties". it was ascertained that the so-called tests were conducted at a pvt. lab in a european nation. 
- prior this, GP had accepted 'contracts' to stall the coming up of 5 ultra mega power projects at MP (saasan), AP (Krishnapattanam), MS (Griye), Odisha (Sundargadh), Gujarat (Mundra), which are to provide 20,000 MW of power.
- attempts to stall work at 3 coal dependent industrial areas, at CG (Korba), MP (Jabalpur), UP (Varanasi), from where again 20,000 MW of power is to be derived.
- agitation to stop import of palm oil from Indonesia, which, if successful, would've led to its price-increase.
- about 200 donors to GP are suspected of money-laundering. BTW, for all their bull claims that they get their funding only through public charity and donation, it would do well to read (how) GP had lost 30 million Pounds not very long ago. the HQ of GP Int'l is located at Amsterdam, a european tax-haven, and known to have a lot of money-circulation, in we know what. the annual budget of GP is INR 1560 cr., with about 15k members. last year, a report of financial irregularities in the body had surfaced.
- for all its calls for environment-protection, GP agitators had damaged a historical heritage site in Peru last year.
- Netherlands itself had arrested 44 of these agitators who were obstructing the arrival of a Russian oil tanker.
- a little details into the 'contract' grabbed to stall projects in India - a 'coal strategy conference' organised in Instanbul in July 2012....GP India is handed a contract to get stalled all the coal-based power-plants in India....a 'coal-network' was formed by america's 'green organisation' and GP america....the american org 'climate works foundation' hands over INR 1.5 cr to GP India....as a result, GP India organised agitations at many places in the country....these included protests against 455 new thermal power-plants....these quislings put NTPC as their no. 1 target, and strived to put the locks on 47 projects of NTPC....GP Int'l sent their ground troops from america, europe australia for this....this team comprised of 13 foreign nationals (9 europeans, 3 americans, 1 aussie)....these were endowed with the responsibility of 'training' GP India volunteers on how to agitate effectively....european GP activist benjamin david was also invited to India on business-visa to train them on how to hide the fact of foreign-funding from the media and the GoI....the protests were organised at more than 39 power-plants (credit: the coalswarm website)....this was deemed 45% successful by coalswarm....GP India had given out ads in newspapers, and had begun lobbying for nuclear liabilities clauses.

and it doesn't end at that.

if one cannot blindly trust their govt'.s reports, which is good, they should be questioned, then what makes people want to blindly trust others, here, these 'NGOs'?! if not anyone else, may be the words of GP's founder (Patrick Moore) could instill some confidence? --> Why I Left Greenpeace - WSJ (gist being, GP was later on hijacked by political interests).

i believe most of GP India's volunteers, the enthusiastic youth, they are not aware of the grim agenda behind such groups, and are well-intentioned otherwise. with our attention-span that of a gnat and neither aware nor care much to look beyond the sparkle and glitz associated with such mass-appealing movements, a crop of part-time and enthusiastically driven youth plus those looking to enhance their resumes too, they are being utilised as ground troops. we already have an army of professional 'krantikaris', we don't need more. next time if and when anyone encounters a couple of these GP volunteers at some IT park or somewhere, asking you to donate and help the 'cause', just ask them that do they know that the clothes that they are wearing also requires power to be manufactured? 
if these groups really had all the goodwill and intentions to bring about positive changes, couldn't they have just discussed or/and joined hands with the Govt. in movements like of river-cleaning, steps to reduce pollution from automobiles, green-cover enhancing initiatives, etc.? Japan & Germany have been working on 'clean coal' tech.s since some time. if they so much wanted to bring good changes to environment here, they could've discussed and rallied for bringing the tech. to India at nominal prices. happening?! 

Japan has for many years kept GP and their likes on their toes, by subjecting them through METI audits, not something to fool with. perhaps we should tackle them the in the Russian and Chinese way. revoking their license for 6 months and freezing 7 of their bank-acct.s is a good first step. even al-jazeera was recently taken to task for showing distorted map of India despite being issued repeated warnings over the past few years, by taking them off the air for 3 days. although unrelated, but there are signals (not very well-know or covered) that the GoI is asserting its stance, indicating the connivers that the criminally relenting govt. of the past, well, is past now, and 'badmaashi' now won't be taken lying down, the jhola & bindi waale professional 'krantikaris' notwithstanding!


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

Yeah don't believe that 2-3% damage to the GDP.
the IB report was never officially released, it was kept in front of the journalists, they were free to take photos, but no one was handed printouts. .


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

well, i would like to believe it with an allowance of some margin of a couple of decimal places, given the credentials of Mr. Rizvi, who is not known for analyses less than rigorous; coming from a breed of old-school academic intel brains, some high-profile scams were cracked by him and his team, including some large stock-mkt ones, plus targeting terrorism through their money-supply links even if through intricate and convoluted channels. many such successes to his credit. 
and atleast zee media house is said to have copies of thise IB-MHA reports (were shown on TV, with highlighted points).


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

Anorion said:


> ^link please
> 
> that video is horrible
> hopefully people can see past it


 [MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] On a serious note, do you have any idea how conversion takes place? If not, I can tell you about 3 specific inter-related methods employed by missionaries in my own village and surrounding areas.


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

nope, I donno. How?


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

Well, the last time i visited my village in Bundelkhand, i saw posters regarding a community meeting to be held at the mela ground in the area. Expecting festivities, i went their with my cousins. What happened was totally unexpected. 3 foreigners (2 women, 1 man) + support team comprising of indians was present there. A statue of mary and jesus in a similar vein like this -> India protests over 'tribal' Virgin Mary and baby Jesus - BBC News

was present. They started off by putting forward a few of those indians to speak about their personal problems and how jesus, and by extension, the church has helped them overcome those problems. Meanwhile others from their group started approaching people individually.Then 1 foreign lady took up the mike started speaking in hindi (to my surprise) and spoke about the miracles of jesus + about a new church being constructed in the area and how it will be open to all, whether christians or not. On asking mu cousins, he told me that this is a monthly activity. Rest of the times, missionaries visit the household in the afternoon when men are at work in the fields to try and convince the womenfolk about their objectives. In similar vein to the saying that educating a women teaches the whole family. You get the idea, don't you? the pastor in church and missionaries also provide cheap loans + and other monetary help (like what happened after the tsunami last decade).

This is just one way how they mix up the local customs with their own religion to make it not seem as anything alien. Just like how we have christian yoga these days. 

Reality is, in 2-3 years GOI has to solve ALL problems with FCRA so that they can start addressing the other routes. They need to probably amend laws to an extent where no money is allowed to Indian NGOs from abroad.

These donors have become experts at funneling money into India. BAM (business as mission) is their next frontier. You will realize that dealing with FCRA is child's play compared to dealing with BAM. There are dozens of american EJ investors who fund Indian x-ngos to start a company. So it will no more be an NGO, it will be a business. So it will be classified as FDI for business and will not be under the purview of the charitable donations act or FCRA. Only difference in this case is they will pay corporate tax.

So, EJ investors will provide Indian EJ's with seed capital to start businesses (can be as simple as a taxi service to a retail store), donate a portion of the ensuing profit to Indian x-tian ngos. So this will be totally out of the purview of the FCRA act since the ngo is receiving money from an Indian startup which in turn has given a part of its equity to an EJ investor abroad. So how on earth will Indian GOI go around monitoring this.

There is a solution though, a full blown anti conversion law (forced/voluntary), meaning no more freedom of religion in India. Now that can only be done if we have 10 more years of a Right Wing GOI. Only good news is that BAM is just taking shape, I have come across several cases of BAM, but its not a flood. But the more GOI tightens FCRA, more BAM money will come. But that will be 10 years from now before it reaches new highs, by then an anti conversion law is a must.

- - - Updated - - -

About that video, the excerpts of missionaries in their is not for our consumption. It is for the western public and entities who give financial support. I have met an old missionary during his journey to India, he had grown up with his parents (who were missionaries) in India. He was grandfather now, and his children also do mission work. There are many such families in Europe, totally dedicated to this path of converting Indians (even though local church attendance is record low).

As to why the western states give tacit support to this system, well that will be hitting the heart of the problem, namely use of religion for political means. For eg, the role of Bishop and cardinals during italian marine incident where they killed indian fishermen in indian waters.

Pick up the niyogi committee report - VINDICATED BY TIME - The Niyogi Committee Report

or books by Arun Shourie - Harvesting Our Souls or Missionaries in India. , By Rajiv Malhotra and few others and you will see what is happening away from our glare.

...................................................................................................

By the way, do you remember an incident which took in Haryana where the local people demolished a church in rural area. Exactly what was the need for a church in an area where according to census, not a single christian soul was present withing miles.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

reminds of MKG's quote - "i would've been a christian, if not for the christians."

sometime back, even the 'wife' of the PM had been visited by an Indian & a foreigner lady missionaries, to assure her of their 'support' to her in her grievances against the govt., and was invited by them to Mumbai for a visit to their organisation to learn more about their works. following the photo-ops session, the pastor clarified that this was no 'conversion' attempt. 
these people should be dealt with tactfully, and tit-for-tat. propaganda should be countered with spreading awareness through AV media overwhelmingly, disrobing them at every step. this has been an acute failing of our govt.s which shouldn't be overlooked anymore.


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

AS for the larger picture, have a look at this - Courtesy of one learned fellow



> The events of the past few years, especially the months after Modi sarkar was born has been anything but interesting for the country.
> The way the major English TV Channels, some journalists, some intellectuals and some elites are painting a narration that is dangerous to the stability of the country. And it is inevitable that the nexus need to be analyzed by all of us from several layers and angles. We can only scratch the tip of the iceberg in these conversations.
> 
> What is being done?
> ...


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

another case in point regarding propaganda - the brouhaha and rudaali over letting the LAB remain L(anti-)AB. now that Shekhar Coupta has tweeted that the new upcoming re-re-revised LAB is much better, perhaps the tormented souls will find some solace? not very likely, given the fact that the promises of development that the PM had made to the people require land, no opposition party would like to see him be able to fulfill them. antidote? a superior and damning PR campaign to rip-off the scare-mongering tactics!

 recently came across a new interesting definition of an 'intellectual' - 'one who can chalantly or non-chalantly protest over both, the power plants as well as the power cuts, with impunity & without any sense of irony!'


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

*Nepal Earthquake* - You will have to search through gutters to find such cretins -



> Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago
> 
> Another swine looking for trough. “@laveypj: Already our mission workers are there to help the people and tell them the goodness of Jesus.India is in need of knowing true God."



Just like they did after tsunami



> Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago
> 
> Suddenly swines all over. “@GlobalOutfittrs: Nepal rocked by magnitude 7.9 quake, fatalities certain. May they find Jesus' love & strength."



While the Indian Gov is working hard to provide relief sending 14 NDRF teams, C-17 , C-130.



> PMO India retweeted
> Narendra Modi @narendramodi · 12m 12 minutes ago
> 
> Spoke to PM Sushil Koirala, who is in transit in Bangkok on his way to Kathmandu. Assured all support & assistance during this tough time.





> MOD Spokesperson: Indian Army Team in Mount Everest Area is safe and will now conduct rescue operations.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 25, 2015)

very dedicated & zealous salesmen!


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## Anorion (Apr 25, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> AS for the larger picture, have a look at this - Courtesy of one learned fellow


link? where is this from?


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## gemini90 (Apr 25, 2015)

^^ They usually don't prefer to come out in the open.


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## beingGamer (Apr 25, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> Well, the last time i visited my village in Bundelkhand, i saw posters regarding a community meeting to be held at the mela ground in the area. Expecting festivities, i went their with my cousins. What happened was totally unexpected. 3 foreigners (2 women, 1 man) + support team comprising of indians was present there. A statue of mary and jesus in a similar vein like this -> India protests over 'tribal' Virgin Mary and baby Jesus - BBC News
> 
> was present. They started off by putting forward a few of those indians to speak about their personal problems and how jesus, and by extension, the church has helped them overcome those problems. Meanwhile others from their group started approaching people individually.Then 1 foreign lady took up the mike started speaking in hindi (to my surprise) and spoke about the miracles of jesus + about a new church being constructed in the area and how it will be open to all, whether christians or not. On asking mu cousins, he told me that this is a monthly activity. Rest of the times, missionaries visit the household in the afternoon when men are at work in the fields to try and convince the womenfolk about their objectives. In similar vein to the saying that educating a women teaches the whole family. You get the idea, don't you? the pastor in church and missionaries also provide cheap loans + and other monetary help (like what happened after the tsunami last decade).
> 
> ...



  [MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION]
This *www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKjAADTaG8

Its the same ARARARARARARARA moment which was mentioned in this video - *www.youtube.com/watch?v=anQv44EHGsw


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## Anorion (Apr 26, 2015)

ok. so what is the narrative where all is well. 

what about this. No clue who this guy is.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 26, 2015)

he's prashant bhushan, an SC lawyer and former AAP member (ie, if you were referring to him; remember his statement from 2013, about referendum in Kashmir?). although he also tends to be a borderline celebrity activist (in that, with getting cosy with the actual ones), which comprises of those who have developed their own cottage-industries out of Modi-bashing (like how he's harping here on the popular-propaganda of Adani receiving cheap [barren] land, using the pet-term of 'krantikaris' - 'crony capitalists' in his comments, while comfortably sleeping over the fact that the congress had sold a chunk of land at Andaman for 2p./sq. ft. or something). but why was he incensed is not clear....must be because the PM 'dared' to advise deva-avataars on earth from Indrapuram. Justice Dattu later on in his speech said something like the Judges of India are still headstrong and not to be influenced by partisan views. by all means, i believe the PM was referring to those 'activists' that his state govt. had close brushes with for more than a decade, and whom the country is suffering since quite some time. the closely-knit cronies here comprise of (but not limited to):

 *i.imgur.com/dAMGLRMm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/exAV0Vmm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/FiMVqCum.jpg

*i.imgur.com/pc1zjl2m.jpg

*i.imgur.com/g9pK6eVl.jpg
(celebrity activist poseur, enjoying delicious paraatha and kadak chaay served by chhotu, after a day of heavy work shooting a documentary over child labour problem, and giving profound insights)

*i.imgur.com/05c18bnl.jpg
(budding celebrity activist, soon to join the valiant 'krantikari' brigade)

many more there, like aruna roy, vrinda grover, etc., etc.

there is no gender bias and discrimination in this coterie. many males too there, prafull bidwai, etc., and includes many already established and budding activists from bollywood too. 

some characteristics of celebrity activists are the varying sizes of bindis, dishevelled hair or/and attire, high decibel levels, very choosy on 'projects', etc.

and then there are some like Baba Amte and Prakash Amte, and a surgeon working with them since his early days and treating tribal folk for 1-2 paisa, a 'gora' who runs an NGO and builds toilets for womenfolk all with his own money, Mr. Kailash Satyarthi, a gentleman in South India who runs an NGO to feed the mentally destitute in his city after he left his work for this and personally goes and feeds them with his hands, an NGO/start-up in Kolkata by a few youth who collect left-over food from homes and functions in the city and organise lunch/dinner for the needy at a makeshift hall, many unsung ones, who don't hog the limelight (for all the wrong reasons). the difference in these and the ones with the 'kaanta laga' ailment listed above would be amply clear.


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

*pbs.twimg.com/media/CDlyICxUsAA3zco.jpg:large


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## Anorion (Apr 27, 2015)

this is like playing connect the dots without the numbers, you can paint any picture you like


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

How I am painting a picture when he is very clear with what he means? Isn't his message shows sanction for conversions from vatican itself unlike it being some fringe elements work which is the favorite theory of many secularists?


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## Anorion (Apr 27, 2015)

not just you, the whole cluster of arguments and whataboutisms that is forcing silence and obedience on the sickularists. what is wrong with secularism suddenly.
don't care much for religion, but this particular pope is a role model for human beings


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

Woh! You call a pope who makes such calls to his followers as a role model for human beings? Who trys to convert people in deep crisis rather than giving selfless service? Now you must know what is wrong with secularism when on the other hand they are the first call RSS nazis and fascists and Ghar Vapsi an evil and against the ideas enumerated by constitution.

And this is not the first time this call has been made by a pope. The last time a pope John Paul 2 visited India in 1999, he made a similar call, calling India fertile for conversions.

As twitter shows, #SoulVultures is apt term to decribe the whole lot of them.

And frankly, i don't have any problems with normal christians who themselves hardly visit the churches any more. it's the above lot which makes my blood boil - the clergy


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## Anorion (Apr 27, 2015)

I donno what is so threatening about this. This country, it's people, and culture have withstood and survived millenia of assault, and we are worried about it now?
Is it anti-national to be worried that the government may make mistakes and prioritize wrong?


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

It is a threat to demographics and culture of our country and at the same time a threat to our nation's sovereignty. And both can be illustrated and have been illustrated with examples in this thread previously.

- - - Updated - - -

Proselytization needs to be regulated with clear dos and donts in the same manner that freedom of expression, advertising etc are regulated with clear dos and donts in every region of the world (including in that "bastion" of individual freedom - the US of A).

Don't know why its so hard for some folks to grasp this fairly simple concept.


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## sling-shot (Apr 27, 2015)

The biggest fallacy is that another religion is a cure for all the social ills. There is no cure. As long as there is man (human being) there will be social ills.

Going from there, consider everything people are doing to get others to convert into their religion. One most common argument put forth is that of untouchables in Hinduism. I consider that untouchability as a practice was introduced because of difference in hygiene habits between them and the others. I do not touch a muddied person before he has taken bath from my own family let alone a stranger. On the contrary I have friends from such groups with whom I have shared a meal plate as their habits are sufficiently clean or better than mine.

Then the question of caste system. Caste system was not initially social, it was professional. If you study closely, at least Islam and Christianity both seem to have a caste system at times equally strict or not so much but still there. Groups have separate places of worship, do not mix well and sometimes even kill each other.

So all in all are they actually doing anything good for the people at all? They are only replacing one form of social evil with another.

So what is left is purely either political motive for the conversions or financial gains for those doing it/supporting it.

And all the so called ills plaguing our society could have been solved better with good education and time instead of increasing strife polarisation.

Hence the dislike for conversion.


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

Imagine if Hindus burned down a symbolic church, what the uproar would be, how many resolutions from parliaments and congresses of western nations would be directed against India.

The front page New York Times story is how a 75-foot pagan temple was built to be burned, to unite the Protestants and Catholics of Ireland.

*Healing Fire in Londonderry: The Temple Was Built to Burn*

*www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/using-flames-to-soothe-a-northern-ireland-city-scarred-by-fire.html

This morning it seemed to me "Christianity unmasked" - "love Jesus" can't unite the Catholics and Protestants of Ireland, but "burn the pagan temple" can!

And this is the ideology that innumerable groups with limitless funding are seeking to spread through out Asia and Africa, under the cover of "religious freedom" and to the detriment of local cultures everywhere.


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## sling-shot (Apr 27, 2015)

People are asking what is wrong with conversions. 

Well for one thing I would never like our country to be ruled by religious zealots who do not respect individual freedom.
Would they like to live in a place like ISIS ruled areas? That is what is wrong with conversion because it may lead to that.

RSS is so commonly criticised in media and by people. I too do not like somethings about them. But I am able to reason with them which would not be possible in the example above.
And the principles of RSS as far as I have seen from the behavior of a few is to eradicate the social evils such as untouchability and caste system. They treat everyone equally and also do a lot of social service in times of crisis.


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

Indian Christians trapped in the politics of Ghar Wapsi? - Bharat Niti



> The psychology of the Church is religiously and politically motivating. So they wanted a halo of martyrdom to all, because martyrs and saints are fuel material for the monstrous engines of the church (like jihadis for Islam) without which it cannot sustain.
> 
> _So it is necessary to quote Dr S Radhakrishnan, our 2nd president._ “The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of mankind from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one Jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien cults. They invoke Divine Sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam. Wars of Religion which are the outcome of fanaticism that prompts and justifies the extermination of aliens of different creeds are particularly unknown in Hindu India.” (The Hindu View of Life, 1927, Oxford University, p 55).
> 
> Before winding, let me quote Swapan Dasgupta, a senior journalist: who, referring to a large demonstration of Christians just days ahead of Delhi assembly polls and discussed how it was a signal for all to vote against the BJP, wrote: “Whatever the real motivations of the clergy of various Christian denominations, there is no doubt that it has succeeded in putting Christians at the centre of a previously non-existent political divide. …… These are just the opening shots of a political battle, using Christians as a human shield.” (Deccan Chronicle, April 3, 2015).


 --> About that 'Use of religion for political power' thing i mentioned.


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## Anorion (Apr 27, 2015)

well, at least what is wrong with christian yoga, maybe we can turn it around to our advantage right?


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## gemini90 (Apr 27, 2015)

How do you propose we do it?


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## Anorion (Apr 27, 2015)

Tradition. Be tolerant.


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## vkl (Apr 27, 2015)

Ford provided money to finance frauds like Teesta Setalvad.
Financing people who can go on for strike...Medha Patkar types come to mind..delayed SarDar Sarovar Dam causing loses.These types generally would try to stop power plants and other areas where country is self-dependant.They have funded,created strikes for stopping coal based thermal plants, hydel plants,nuclear plant.
Could certainly would have caused for more troubles and dependannce.Once in a while they will take up something good just to show that they are on a "good" path.Political activism from these organizations should be checked.While UPA govt. gave them a free hand to do whatever they wanted..this Govt. seems lot better in those regard.
Greenpeace: Brewing trouble for Indian tea - Oneindia


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## beingGamer (Apr 27, 2015)

vkl said:


> Ford provided money to finance frauds like Teesta Setalvad.
> Financing people who can go on for strike...Medha Patkar types come to mind..delayed SarDar Sarovar Dam causing loses.These types generally would try to stop power plants and other areas where country is self-dependant.They have funded,created strikes for stopping coal based thermal plants, hydel plants,nuclear plant.
> Could certainly would have caused for more troubles and dependannce.Once in a while they will take up something good just to show that they are on a "good" path.Political activism from these organizations should be checked.While UPA govt. gave them a free hand to do whatever they wanted..this Govt. seems lot better in those regard.
> Greenpeace: Brewing trouble for Indian tea - Oneindia



AAP party is one of them.
also recent news was about Anna Hazare is getting funded by the same.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 27, 2015)

Anna Hazare being funded by Ford or such pets seems very doubtful to me. his case seems to me a reformer now turning senile and surrounded by pretentious 'advisers' with either not the best of intentions or info, or both. 

this nation & civilisation has (inculcated) the criminally blunderous tradition/pattern of being disastrously ultra-tolerant & permissive with least regard for the collective whole self, and unassuming in identifying its well-wishers from its enemies, from the savages from the mid-east, to the masquerader marauder robert clive (welcomed by lakhs of people showering rose petals after his deceptive 'victory'), and the saga continues callously yet wilfully. all the turmoil, chaos, running-around begins and ensues, to put it in the american lingo, after the sh** starts hitting the fan, or aptly, well after it has hit it.


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## Renny (Apr 29, 2015)

All these foreign funds are diverted towards anti-development causes and communists. Maybe a part of it also goes into the pockets of the print and television MSM? 

Enough of being tolerant.


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 29, 2015)

Renny said:


> ....Maybe a part of it also goes into the pockets of the print and television MSM?....



wouldn't be a surprise if it comes to fore that some of the media houses too get their 'cuts'. of the about 11-12k crores of foreign funds received by nearly 20L NGOs in the country, only 2% of them file their annual returns. why won't MHA's eyebrows be raised? also, remember the case of financial irregularities and misappropriation of funds or something like that found in NDTV's books some years back? undiTV should have been nailed then & there! though don't know what came of it.


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## snap (Apr 30, 2015)

This thread feels like a conspiracy nutjob gathering


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## GhorMaanas (Apr 30, 2015)

the warmth of cosiness & comfort in the 'aal is well' brand of quilt can certainly induce such a perception.


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## gemini90 (May 9, 2015)

Both German and US ambassadors are interfering in matters they have no locus standi. They represent the interests of their gov. alone and have no stake in NGO issue unless the latter indeed are the non official arms of their gov's. Sponsoring NGOs gives the western countries vast infrastructure into the country to overlay any kind of mischievous acts without putting the foot in the country. 

Anti-NGO action could have "chilling effect" on civil society: US Ambassador - The Hindu

German Ambassador to India Urges Support of International NGOs


The global narrative is clear - Religious conversion is not a bad thing. It is an expression of the freedoms we earned by being part of a democracy. Anyone who blocks religious conversion is undemocratic. 

The global narrative has to change to - Religious conversion destroys cultures and diversity. It is cultural rape. Hinduism et. al. are the real minority religions in the world and they are endangered by a rampant virus. It is our duty as the human race to preserve these religions. 

Until the latter is the globally acceptable narrative, no one can step up and utter a word about conversion.

But as it goes, from wiki



> Article 7 of a 1994 draft of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples uses the phrase "cultural genocide" but does not define what it means.[8] The complete article reads as follows:
> 
> Indigenous peoples have the collective and individual right not to be subjected to ethnocide and cultural genocide, including prevention of and redress for:
> (a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities;
> ...



Cultural genocide has not been accepted as a term by UNO due to pressure of western countries. The same is the case in form of ICC -International Criminal Court which is not part of UN unlike International Court of Justice. Nor is it similar to Interpol in coverage.



> The ICC has the jurisdiction to prosecute individuals for the international crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. The ICC is intended to complement existing national judicial systems and it may therefore only exercise its jurisdiction when certain conditions are met, such as when national courts are unwilling or unable to prosecute criminals or when the United Nations Security Council or individual states refer investigations to the Court.



That's the story on the surface. The ICC is really meant to serve one primary purpose: circumvent African and Asian efforts to seek restitution for colonial plunder. By controlling the arms of prosecution, the Europeans ensure they don't face the consequences of their actions. Asians did not sign the treaty but Africans fell for it.


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## GhorMaanas (May 26, 2015)

anyone seeing this/such a mail in circulation? @gemini90, @beingGamer, @vkl?



Spoiler






> Dear friends,
> 
> *The most persecuted peoples on our earth are right now taking to ‘floating coffins’* to flee violence and seek sanctuary for their families. But instead of responding with humanity, our governments are closing their doors, letting them starve and drown at sea.
> 
> ...


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## beingGamer (May 26, 2015)

GhorMaanas said:


> anyone seeing this/such a mail in circulation? @gemini90, @beingGamer, @vkl?



That looks clearly as a scam mail to receive donations in the name of helping crisis struck people.
We will never know where that money went


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## GhorMaanas (May 26, 2015)

the donation-pages look genuine; the parent-site too has the same pic and links to the same pages. the purpose, not so.


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## Ironman (May 27, 2015)

beingGamer said:


> We will never know where that money went



Do We know where out taxes go to ? Swiss bank or Somewhere else

Do we know where the money we donate to the state government for NEPAL or some other extreme situation actually reaches there or not ?


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## gemini90 (Jun 7, 2015)

*Ford Foundation an entity outside law*

Ford Foundation an entity outside law: Officials


> Despite the fact that no papers appear to have been submitted to the government to ensure that it was an entity functioning as per the domestic laws in India, the Ford Foundation opened a bank account in India, at first with CitiBank and subsequently with American Express, before moving back to Citi 15 years ago. As Know Your Customer (KYC) forms were not filled in, some officials claim that these bank accounts are legally untenable, and that to date, documentation needed as per law to open a bank account in India has not been furnished by the Foundation to any authority. Interestingly, Raghuram Rajan, who as RBI Governor has placed curbs after curbs on the smooth operation in financial matters of Indian entities, does not seem to have reacted or even noticed such apparent disregard of Indian laws by the Foundation, which has, according to high officials, set up its Delhi office on land taken at a token cost from the government, again on the basis of records which seem non-existent.
> 
> When Home Minister Rajnath Singh asked the MHA to raise such matters with the Foundation, the reply came not from itself, but from a US Department of State spokesperson, as well as US envoy to India, Richard Verma, both of whom strongly condemned Government of India for its effrontery in seeking to enforce the provisions of law on an entity which acts as though it is an independent entity subject to its own laws, rather than an institution needing to respect local laws and regulations. Albeit those which no government except the present has enforced, from 1952, the year in which "Chacha" Nehru acted as a benevolent uncle by, in practice, waiving any need for the Ford Foundation to follow Indian law. The US State Department also protested in very minatory terms about the MHA's recent cancellation of the FCRA licences of 9,000 NGOs, who have not filed returns for five consecutive years or more, raising doubts as to its real intentions in the context of developments in Eastern Europe, North Africa and West Asia, all locations where NGOs backed by Washington have been active in replacing the ballot with the street as the appropriate forum for regime change. In each such intervention, chaos has resulted.



ask FF and US SD replies. Same as in russia.

Russia's Putin signs law against 'undesirable' NGOs - BBC News



> Supporters of the new bill say it is essential to prevent Russia from outside interference, amid ongoing tensions due to Russia's involvement in Ukraine.
> 
> But there was concern from Western governments and NGOs about the implications.
> 
> The US state department said it was "deeply troubled" by the law.


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