# Time 100 list - How within hours Modi's stat did a swing and Kejriwal quotient decreased



## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

Just 8 hours ago it was like this:


> *i.imgur.com/2Ky3R6u.png



And now 9:24 PM:


> *i.imgur.com/1nzT5gZ.png*i.imgur.com/NLNrhbl.png



Update, 10:09PM


> *i.imgur.com/t8vCWiG.png



Modi takes lead over Kejriwal at 10:55, within a matter of hours


> *i.imgur.com/vlnWzS0.png*i.imgur.com/RHdCDhn.png



Possibly paid clicks generated for Modi and against Kejriwal. What a shame.

Final update at 03:30 p.m. next day. Bogus votes nullified by anti spam system.



> *i.imgur.com/CgJZv6z.png*i.imgur.com/4vH4zdH.png
> *i.imgur.com/mwPAQMn.png




*Source:* *time.com/55769/time-100-2014-poll-world/


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

You really want Kejriwal to win? Lmfao.


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## rhitwick (Apr 21, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> You really want Kejriwal to win? Lmfao.



Are you familiar with the concept of DEMOCRACY?


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## dashing.sujay (Apr 21, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> You really want Kejriwal to win? Lmfao.



^It's not about winning buddy, rather how the things are being "portrayed" by trendiest politician (ever).


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

Please, oh wise guy tell me the concept.


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

[MENTION=157653]Pasapa[/MENTION]
May be open your mind and see beyond what's shown ?

I want to give AAP a chance this time. I want to see the change not the same old crap. 

Neither Congress nor BJP did something substantial for India while we have all seen scams of equal proportions by both parties. And if that's not enough for you guys then hadn't you seen how BJP and Congress came together against the janlokpal bill ? If that couldn't open your eyes then it's better that you keep sleeping.


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

First of all, i didn't vote for bjp nor congress in this election. I was a supporter of AAP when they won the Delhi election, but after a joke of a government that ran for 49 days filled with useless controversies and after they stepped down Arvindji made comments like "i will imprison the media", i couldn't see a reason to support them.

Oh and BTW im pretty sure that aap knew that the jan lokpal bill wouldn't get passed, they needed a reason to go into the national level and they got it. Oh and if aap were so against corruption why did they bother to get the support from congress to form le government, they could have just gone for the re-election.


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

[MENTION=157653]Pasapa[/MENTION]
And yet you don't see the reason why he resigned ? What's the use of continuing government if the basis of removing corruption was not passed. Joke was when BJP and Congress joined hands against passing the bill ? But I guess that wasn't joke for you but a professional act, right ?

- - - Updated - - -



Pasapa said:


> Oh and BTW im pretty sure that aap knew that the jan lokpal bill wouldn't get passed, they needed a reason to go into the national level and they got it.


Don't you know Kejriwal is an Pakistani agent ?



Pasapa said:


> Oh and if aap were so against corruption why did they bother to get the support from congress to form le government, they could have just gone for the re-election.


Brush up your knowledge. Congress said it will provide unconditional support. That was the reason.

My advice to you is directly ask AAP on their page if you still don't get it.


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

Meh, typical response i usually get.. He could have done tons of things by running the government.. Rather than running away due to a hurdle on the highway. What did he think ? That he was god and could make this country a better one in a single day?





Edit : ah yes if you cant give a reasonable response to any of my statements think about it for a second rather than thinking "oh this guy does not share my views he must be a complete idiot" unconditional or not, they did accept it



Edit again: please answer this,

Do you honestly believe that Kejriwal had hopes of passing the Jan lokpal bill/ and by hope i mean realistic chance


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

Getting closer to positive...
*i.imgur.com/t8vCWiG.png

- - - Updated - - -



Pasapa said:


> Meh, typical response i usually get.. He could have done tons of things by running the government.. Rather than running away due to a hurdle on the highway. What did he think ? That he was god and could make this country a better one in a single day?



Ok dude, Whatever you think. May be you can enter and do better than him. Good luck.


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## tkin (Apr 21, 2014)

I don't care who wins as long as Congress doesn't return, period, I'd enough of their babbles, this is a Democracy, not a Monarchy.


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

Bump, answer my second question.


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> Bump, answer my second question.



What makes you think that I think of you as a complete idiot. You make too many assumptions.

Resigning from a seat is not normal under any circumstances. You will understand when you get a job. The sheer lure of power and money is difficult to give up. Yet he resigned. No one in their mind would like to play a game of chance like that and move out from comfort zone. But he did.

I hope that answers your question. Lets break the debate here as I don't intend to regurgitate things when you can find answers from AAP directly. They aren't unapproachable. A simple comment on their facebook page or may be mail will get you a better response directly.


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## ratul (Apr 21, 2014)

I think this video sums this up:


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## quan chi (Apr 21, 2014)

Atleast I don't want modi or any people like congress to win.
I can understand marketing for films but marketing for prime minister is something I don't understand.

Btw I don't like AAP too. However we don't have any other choice until & unless we join there.


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

ratul said:


> I think this video sums this up:


 
That's impressive


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

As for ads the most disturbing ones are from congress..

 [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION], you didn't answer my question. As for asking AAP the response, i hope you are joking, no party is honest with their answers if you're thinking otherwise your just brainwashed.


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## Faun (Apr 21, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> As for ads the most disturbing ones are from congress..
> 
> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION], you didn't answer my question. As for asking AAP the response, i hope you are joking, no party is honest with their answers if you're thinking otherwise your just brainwashed.



Ok dude, I am brainwashed. Brainwashed enough to give AAP a chance. 

You won the argument. Wait for the party which will change India or may be create your own.

- - - Updated - - -

Finally Modi Takes lead over Kejriwal at 10:55



> *i.imgur.com/vlnWzS0.png*i.imgur.com/RHdCDhn.png


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## vkl (Apr 21, 2014)

At first I had some faith in AAP as well and believe that many would have had back then.
But then picture was getting clearer about kejriwal.May be many members in AAP are still good but not sure about kejriwal's intentions.
He is yet to submit 380 pages of proof against Sheila Dikshit and in the meantime she has already become a Governer of a state.
I mean what do you make of a person who has the prove against wrong-doing and yet doesn't file a case.
Ashok Khemka had cancelled the vadra land deal which was highlighted by kejriwal as if he had done this on his own.Khemka got transfered,Yudhvir Singh Khayalia comes in his place,says the land deal is fine and instead files a chargesheet against khemka.Now this same(yudhvir) guy is AAP's candidate in Hisar.Now at a time how can kejrival support both of these guys?
The resignation over delhi janlokpal bill in all probability was a drama.Kejriwal sure must have known the law.The bill being a financial one should have first gone to LG and LG had to put it to central govt for reference first before it was to be introduced in legistlative assembly.What media potrayed was as if Cong and BJP candidates didn't support it whereas in reality that bill was not considered to be introduced in the assembly simpy because it didn't go through constitutional steps.

I personally support neither of cong,bjp and aap.Vote for whoever is best in your locality or for a party which you think is good for India.


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## Pasapa (Apr 21, 2014)

Pff, no wonder that this nation is in peril.


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## gopi_vbboy (Apr 21, 2014)

Spoiler






ratul said:


> I think this video sums this up:






Crap. I have a conspiracy theory  about AAP.

The guy is a IIT grad explaining about kejri fraud.



[YOUTUBE]Ygp-EM5cOpQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## ratul (Apr 21, 2014)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Crap. I have a conspiracy theory  about AAP.
> 
> The guy is a IIT grad explaining about kejri fraud.
> 
> ...



you didn't get my point, i am not with either of the parties, what i wanted you all to see from that video is that how much money bjp is putting in advertising modi and it's these advertising companies only that caused this swing in the Time 100 list, your video is just suggesting how kejri is a fraud..


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## quan chi (Apr 22, 2014)

ratul said:


> y how much money bjp is putting in advertising modi and it's these advertising companies only that caused this swing in the Time 100 list,



India is a poor country? These guys are spending around (min)50 crore per week on him. Anyways this is just an investment. If they comes into power then they will certainly reap the benefits of this investment with interest. Who will pay? well you can very well guess. The poor _janta_.
Result : Rise in corruption....etc etc.

Even if AAP or any other party comes into power there is no guarantee that that certain company or companies wont try to buy it too. There is always a possibility. Therefore If you don't like any of them then please vote for some other candidate.

(Ps: Bhoothnath returns beautifully explains the value of your vote. Please see it. Its not that bad)


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## Neuron (Apr 22, 2014)

Certainly the ones voted for modi aren't humans.
[YOUTUBE]Z3Bisax95MQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

What amazes me is the fact that the same people who could tolerate decades of misrule by Cong/BJP get impatient when it comes to AAP. What Kejriwal & AAP did in Delhi in 49 days, it would've taken other parties 49 months or may be more to do the same provided that they're willing to do some good, which is highly unlikely. 

And about all the controversies during his reign as CM, oh well, is that really so difficult to understand or people are just being adamant. Come on people, what do you think happens when a few honest men, who know next to nothing about politics, fight against hordes of corrupt political behemoths strengthened by feeding on common people's blood for decades. It's like a few newborn vampires fighting against Dracula. Controversies were bound to happen but what's worst is that they were all blown out of proportion by the media, which again was bound to happen as there was so much limelight on Kejriwal & AAP during that time. 

Yes, resigning as CM was a mistake and it cost him a lot of supporters and gained only a few, but again there are two sides to every story. 

There was no way the janlokpal bill was going to be passed by either the so-called constitutional method or directly in the assembly and Kejriwal knew that. He also knew that Cong/BJP joining hands to prevent the bill from being passed was also a strong possibility. So yes, it was a way out for him. He should've kept aside the janlokpal bill and concentrated on other issues. Instead he chose to resign over it.

That was one side of the story though. There's another. I still stand by what I said above. Kejriwal knew what was coming. He wanted to resign. But why and for what? Most people say he did that because he had national ambitions. He wanted to be PM. He became greedy and what not. And that's where people are wrong. He knew that he won't be able to fulfill his dream of a corruption-free India by running a coalition govt with the corrupt Congress which may be a long time rival to the opposing BJP but are willing to work together when it comes to opposing AAP. He knew that AAP needs to establish itself at a national level i.e. at the center with a solid majority if they were ever to achieve the common man's dream of a corruption-free India. 

He never believed that a coalition govt would work. See what happened in Delhi. He ordered an audit on the bijli companies and in return got threatened by them as well as slammed by both Congress, who gave them unconditional support, and the opposition. He halved electricity prices and provided free water, he got criticized. He intended to do a peaceful dharna and Shinde called a Curfew, well, kind of. Ultimately he got blamed for that and was branded an anarchist. And lastly, everybody saw what happened in the assembly when the janlokpal bill was introduced. Well, now you know why he resigned.

What I'm trying to say is that we have given more than enough chances to Congress, BJP and other parties but all they've done over the years, is filling up the swiss bank. Then, why can't we give AAP a chance. We're a democracy. If they don't deliver what they're promising then we always have the option to vote against them next time.

I'm with AAP hoping for a better future for our country.


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## true_lies (Apr 22, 2014)

Change is always good, nobody likes to be stuck with the same thing.
But even more is nobody wants the same change again & again. Everyone knows Cong won't be in power this year, and with the NaMo effect, BJP will be. But i'm sure even they won't be in power 5 years later.


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## vkl (Apr 22, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> What amazes me is the fact that the same people who could tolerate decades of misrule by Cong/BJP get impatient when it comes to AAP. What Kejriwal & AAP did in Delhi in 49 days, it would've taken other parties 49 months or may be more to do the same provided that they're willing to do some good, which is highly unlikely.
> 
> And about all the controversies during his reign as CM, oh well, is that really so difficult to understand or people are just being adamant. Come on people, what do you think happens when a few honest men, who know next to nothing about politics, fight against hordes of corrupt political behemoths strengthened by feeding on common people's blood for decades. It's like a few newborn vampires fighting against Dracula. Controversies were bound to happen but what's worst is that they were all blown out of proportion by the media, which again was bound to happen as there was so much limelight on Kejriwal & AAP during that time.
> 
> ...



Well about Jan Lokpal bill,how do you think a bill can be passed without going through constitutional steps and be conisdered as amended? No way,doesn't work that way.
With the situation of law that was/is there,Jan Lokpal Bill would have to be referenced to Central Govt from LG of Delhi and in all probability they(Center) would have refused.If he really wanted to do something good he could have added all the required necessary changes and step in the the Delhi Lokayukta and could have named it Lokayukta bill and introduced in Assembly with proper procedure which wouldn't have needed to be referenced to the central Govt.After all he was implementing things for Delhi only.Media potrayal of the matter was poor in this regard by most of the news channels. 
*www.ndtv.com/article/india/full-te...r-of-delhi-assembly-on-jan-lokpal-bill-483501

He kept accusing of wrong-doing in case of Santosh Kohli's death and may be there was foul play(quite possible),but he was CM for much time,could have easily asked a judicial inquiry to probe the matter but he didn't do though he did ask vote in her name.All he had to do was just order for a judicial inquiry which he didn't.Giving away freebies can be considered appeasing as well,after all the rates were reduced to half or something first whereas the audit was to be done later.
For all the controversies surrounding Narendra Modi much of which is created by media especially for being involved in riots,all the courts/committees till now have given him clean-chit.If they believe further inquiry should take place they must ask the court instead of passing the judgement themselves.
Well for sure ad-campaigns are not good from either side but was started by congress with 4-5 ads including MHRD and other departments.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 22, 2014)

those who say let's give AAP a chance don't know what they are talking about.people wouldn't trust a fresh pass out professional for important work in any field be it medicine,engineering,finance no matter how prestigious the institute is & yet some are actually harboring the dream of handing India,the most complex democracy in the world,to a party like AAP.negative of a negative is positive in maths not in real world.just because a party is against corruption doesn't mean it will also have the quality of constructive ideas  regarding governance automatically.

here are two examples to make this clear:
a)morarji desai,the former PM of India who could put kejriwal to shame in matters of honesty & simplicity,only because of his naivety did serious damage to R&AW & thus to india's security:
*www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/kno...d-up-raw-s-most-daring-plan-operat-31481.html

b)indira gandhi,also called the iron lady of india & one of the most shrewd politician India has ever witnessed(those who don't know she was known as 'gungi gudiya'(mute doll) when she first entered politics) & creator of today's congress empire & enforcer of now infamous 'emergency rule',refused to be intimidated by USA forcing the then US president Nixon to call her as an "old witch".
*archive.indianexpress.com/news/wik...ra-gandhi-told-richard-nixon-in-1971/1102314/

*the moral of this is a naive honest politician can sometimes do much more damage than a shrewd power hungry authoritarian politician.*


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## Faun (Apr 22, 2014)

I put my bet on naive honest politician. But no to a corrupt one.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 22, 2014)

which type of corruptness(like they say in the ad 'money can't buy everything')?everyone is corrupt to some degree ideologically & mentally,no body is a saint.if you believe in a 100% honest flawless human then you might as well believe in god coming to earth.in a purely rational sense devoid of any sentiments kejriwal is not even a decent let alone good choice for PM of India.


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## $hadow (Apr 22, 2014)

Alright let's see this way: 
We have already given chances to both the parties viz BJP and Congress now what is wrong in providing a chance to AAP.  
And the fact which we all have to agree us that corruption is in the roots of the country so if one is trying to take the responsibility why not give him a chance by voting for him.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 22, 2014)

^^read my 1st post on page 1.this is a country we are talking about not some trial & error problem.


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

vkl said:


> Well about Jan Lokpal bill,how do you think a bill can be passed without going through constitutional steps and be conisdered as amended? No way,doesn't work that way.
> With the situation of law that was/is there,Jan Lokpal Bill would have to be referenced to Central Govt from LG of Delhi and in all probability they(Center) would have refused.If he really wanted to do something good he could have added all the required necessary changes and step in the the Delhi Lokayukta and could have named it Lokayukta bill and introduced in Assembly with proper procedure which wouldn't have needed to be referenced to the central Govt.After all he was implementing things for Delhi only.Media potrayal of the matter was poor in this regard by most of the news channels.
> *www.ndtv.com/article/india/full-te...r-of-delhi-assembly-on-jan-lokpal-bill-483501
> 
> ...


Well, I never said there was any real chance for the janlokpal bill to be passed in either case. As you said yourself that if AAP had followed the constitutional method the center would've refused it and Kejriwal knew that. It was just a way out for him as I said earlier in my previous post. So, I guess both of us agree as far as this matter is concerned. 

Now, as far as your second point about "making necessary amendments in the bill in order to suit Congress/BJP, renaming it lokayukta and then introducing it in the assembly" is concerned, my opinion differs. If they really had to do it then why they opposed the lokpal bill that was passed by the centre in the first place. They should've accepted it just like Anna Hazare did. But no, they didn't because it wasn't the true lokpal bill which was supposed to eradicate corruption from the soil of our country. It was a heavily compromised one. It was a jokepal as you might have heard people calling it. No disrespect to the old man Anna Hazare as I honestly believe him to be a very honest and humble person, but he was tricked into believing that this was the same lokpal for which he has been fighting for years, by the Bedi's and VKS' surrounding him. You can check out the differences between the proposed lokpal bill and the amended one by visiting your friend google if you're not already familiar although I assume you are.

Regarding Santosh Kohli's death, Kejriwal did demand for a probe by the UP police on that matter. The incident happened outside his jurisdiction so in no way he could've ordered a probe.

Lastly, as far as Modi is concerned, I don't blame him for being responsible for inciting the riots especially when he's been given a clean chit by the top courts, but I do think he was involved in them in some capacity. But since I only have limited knowledge regarding this matter especially because I was only a kid back then, I prefer not to speak much on this issue. Alhough I don't think of him as an ideal PM candidate. By looking at his body language and the way he talks or gives speeches, he seems like an excessively self-obsessed man for whom the PM's chair is the Peacock Throne and he himself is the Kohinoor and the nation only comes after that.

 [MENTION=126812]whitestar_999[/MENTION]
Nobody starts as a seasoned politician. Novices, in any field, gain experience with time to become experts. So, in order to create experts you have to give chance to novices to exercise their skills. There was a first time for Congress & BJP too. There's always a first time for everyone & everything. Anyway, I agree that AAP is a new party and may be they don't have much experience but they're not idiots. They're a group of well-intentioned, educated and intellectual people who are striving to bring about a positive change in the country and that's reason enough to give them a chance. And you're right in that nobody wants a honest fool as PM, which Kejriwal certainly isn't. Would you rather see corruption slowly and steadily make it's way to the very core of the nation and destroy it even when you still got an option to save it? I'm not begging anybody to support AAP. Support whichever party or candidate you want but do try and imagine the long-term consequences your decision will have on the country and on you before making it.


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## vkl (Apr 22, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> Well, I never said there was any real chance for the janlokpal bill to be passed in either case. As you said yourself that if AAP had followed the constitutional method the center would've refused it and Kejriwal knew that. It was just a way out for him as I said earlier in my previous post. So, I guess both of us agree as far as this matter is concerned.
> 
> Now, as far as your second point about "*making necessary amendments in the bill in order to suit Congress/BJP, renaming it lokayukta and then introducing it in the assembly" is concerned*, my opinion differs. If they really had to do it then why they opposed the lokpal bill that was passed by the centre in the first place. They should've accepted it just like Anna Hazare did. But no, they didn't because it wasn't the true lokpal bill which was supposed to eradicate corruption from the soil of our country. It was a heavily compromised one. It was a jokepal as you might have heard people calling it. No disrespect to the old man Anna Hazare as I honestly believe him to be a very honest and humble person, but he was tricked into believing that this was the same lokpal for which he has been fighting for years, by the Bedi's and VKS' surrounding him. You can check out the differences between the proposed lokpal bill and the amended one by visiting your friend google if you're not already familiar although I assume you are.
> 
> ...



Mate you are mistaken.I have not said anywhere to make changes according to or suitable to either BJP/Cong.All I implied was that,all the real good changes that was supposed to be in the real good lokpal bill should have been taken to the delhi lokayukta though a lokayukta bill.That would have done the job.He didn't do that.
As far as Kohli case is concerned I stand corrected.I should have stated that he didn't "demand a CBI inquiry instead of stating "ordering" an inquiry since it was outside his area of control.He himself has admitted to this.


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

vkl said:


> Mate you are mistaken.I have not said anywhere to make changes according to or suitable to either BJP/Cong.All I implied was that,all the real good changes that was supposed to be in the real good lokpal bill should have been taken to the delhi lokayukta though a lokayukta bill.That would have done the job.He didn't do that.


Well then, my bad. I misinterpreted your sentence. Although I still doubt if doing that would've made any difference at all as IMO Congress & BJP are anti anti-corruption, irrespective of whether it's exercised through lokpal or lokayukta. But since Kejriwal didn't do it, who knows what would've happened if he did. 



vkl said:


> As far as Kohli case is concerned I stand corrected.I should have stated that he didn't "demand a CBI inquiry instead of stating "ordering" it since it was outside his area of control.He himself has admitted to this.


In that you're correct.


Why my post-count hasn't increased since my last three posts?


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## vkl (Apr 22, 2014)

^^Posts in bandwidth wastage section are not counted.


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

^^Ohkay, didn't know that. Thanks.


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## kunalgujarathi (Apr 22, 2014)

Ok just tell me Before all this MODINESS UPA had 6 months with a clear majority of MPs.

They didn't pass a single major bill.On top of it there is a situation in the country where Top court is running the country!Each case go to Supreme Court!Now you have three choices!

1.Give that government a third chance so that eventually country is deteriorated!

2.Handover the country in the hands of a novice politician who left his government and kicked LG's proposal to run temporary government for LS election!
What did he do?Introduced  caps!Went to Gujarat,alleged the government ,the people and after all his allegation proved wrong he ran away!

3.A politician  who has handled his state for 3
Consecutive terms and has not only maintained consistency in governing but also progressed
The state!

Now of course among all three the 3rd suits best!


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## Sarath (Apr 22, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> Do you honestly believe that Kejriwal had hopes of passing the Jan lokpal bill/ and by hope i mean realistic chance



Do you honestly believe that Bhagat Singh had hopes of getting rid of the the british by throwing a few non-lethal dud bombs in a court as a sign of protest and by hope I mean a realistic chance


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

[MENTION=266361]kunalgujarathi[/MENTION]
Well since BJP or should I say Modi is most likely to win this election, I sincerely do hope that you're right otherwise we're all doomed.


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## kunalgujarathi (Apr 22, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> [MENTION=266361]kunalgujarathi[/MENTION]
> Well since BJP or should I say Modi is most likely to win this election, I sincerely do hope that you're right otherwise we're all doomed.



After seeing that RighttoRecall group video!
I am a bit shocked!
Yep that guy was telling truth!


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## Pasapa (Apr 22, 2014)

[MENTION=115573]Sarath[/MENTION], srsly you are comparing bhagat singh to Kejriwal? Dude wtf? That is a disgrace to the martyr... You are comparing a political drama to a heroic sacrifice made by a true patriot..
Let me sum up it, Kejriwal is not very much different from other politicians ( maybe a little better but not to an extent that makes him eligible to be compared with Bhagat singh).


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## Sarath (Apr 22, 2014)

^ The problem with Kejriwal is exactly that he is different from other politicians. That is why he is not able to fit right in and stands out as an odd thorn. He is just politically immature. It is a case of how good intentions alone cannot produce good results. 

I want Modi to become the PM though because it's time we have a strong leader at the helm but with the condition that AAP forms the opposition. I think AAP is one of the best things that happened to our country in recent times. I hope to see them form the government in the next term. Right now they are just too loud, blunt and brash. I don't think that is going to work. 

Kejriwal has to become a politician like any other. Only then will he be able to run the country and guide it. I think in coming years he will be able to guide his energies more efficiently and in the right direction. Just hope he and people around him stay incorruptible at the face of such power and responsibility.


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## moniker (Apr 22, 2014)

Kejriwal lost it for me the moment he announced that people who don't agree to pay their electricity bills will get a rebate of 50%. 

I was like WTF? when this news was announced. I can put the other decisions down to naivety, but this one was utterly moronic.

This is such a blatant discriminatory measure one could see. What had the poor law abiding citizens who pay their bills in time done to warrant this discrimination?


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 22, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> [MENTION=115573]Sarath[/MENTION], srsly you are comparing bhagat singh to Kejriwal? Dude wtf? That is a disgrace to the martyr... You are comparing a political drama to a heroic sacrifice made by a true patriot..
> Let me sum up it, Kejriwal is not very much different from other politicians ( maybe a little better but not to an extent that makes him eligible to be compared with Bhagat singh).


Nobody is comparing the legendary Bhagat Singh to Kejriwal. Let's see it this way. Bhagat Singh is an inspiration for us all and maybe for Kejriwal too. May be he's just trying to follow in his footsteps. Does that make him Bhagat Singh? Absolutely not. So chillax, there is no reason to freak out. Not that I meant what I said about Kejriwal imitating Bhagat Singh. 

 [MENTION=146873]moniker[/MENTION]
Yeah, that was a very bad decision on AAP's part. For that one time, I hated them and really hoped that Kejriwal will come out with a formal apology after realizing how unfair it actually was to law-abiding citizens. BTW did he? I don't know. But since then I've forgiven them. After all they're human beings and human beings make mistakes. Although I really do hope this kind of act won't be repeated in the future or they will lose my support for sure.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> which type of corruptness(like they say in the ad 'money can't buy everything')?everyone is corrupt to some degree ideologically & mentally,no body is a saint.if you believe in a 100% honest flawless human then you might as well believe in god coming to earth.in a purely rational sense devoid of any sentiments kejriwal is not even a decent let alone good choice for PM of India.



You are pretty judgmental on Kejriwal without giving him a chance. I don't care if he becomes PM or not but he has given hope to people that even without big funds once can compete for a place in government. It's that hope which will drive more people towards reforming the system. A good society breed good character.

I am not looking for a saint because even saints are corrupted in India. But the degree of corruptness that we have been witnessing is not something to be proud of.

Whether Modi comes to power or Rahul, the entity above them will still be same and unchallenged.

- - - Updated - - -



Sarath said:


> ^ The problem with Kejriwal is exactly that he is different from other politicians. That is why he is not able to fit right in and stands out as an odd thorn. He is just politically immature. It is a case of how good intentions alone cannot produce good results.



I hope you will find all the dynastic politicians, criminals and lalu's alike as mature. Right ?

It's like to get a job you need experience but for experience you need a job. Deadlock much ?

By your analysis, I cannot enter politics then just because I don't think like the current breed of politicians. 

If you look at the internal structure of all these political organizations I think you will find much similarity in other IT organizations about how the management is done.

- - - Updated - - -



kunalgujarathi said:


> After seeing that RighttoRecall group video!
> I am a bit shocked!
> Yep that guy was telling truth!



That guy should work in CSI.


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## Sarath (Apr 23, 2014)

Faun said:


> I hope you will find all the dynastic politicians, criminals and lalu's alike as mature. Right ?
> 
> It's like to get a job you need experience but for experience you need a job. Deadlock much ?
> 
> ...



Well, it's a case of the only person who can break a broken machine is the one who broke it or the one who made it. This is the case with current politics. The reason why I am vouching for Modi is he is already in the system and he knows how to work it. Sure even BJP is going to be corrupt no doubt. But with a new party at the helm especially with someone as energetic as AAP I think they might break the system. This is the reason I want AAP in the opposition. They will be more honest in dealing with any cases of corruption than Congress ever will. 

*It's like to get a job you need experience but for experience you need a job* Well sadly for a post like the PM and running something as mammoth as our democracy I think experience becomes even more vital. This is the reason I put Modi ahead of Kejriwal right now.

*By your analysis, I cannot enter politics then just because I don't think like the current breed of politicians.* Of course you can but can you handle it? If you are made PM immediately and you break then people will just lose hope. 

To summarise I'm saying AAP will do a better job in the opposition than in power. In a few years when they gain some experience then I think we will see a very different and effective AAP. I'm sure then they will have both the will and the means to bring change. I just want to see Kejriwal grow, to be more experienced, to become a leader and not just an activist. I think him and few more like Mamata (ok she can be pretty crude too) will be able to come together and really change the scenario.

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whitestar_999 said:


> *the moral of this is a naive honest politician can sometimes do much more damage than a shrewd power hungry authoritarian politician.*


This is what I think my posts are trying to say



Faun said:


> I put my bet on naive honest politician. But no to a corrupt one.


And this post confuses me because even I somewhat feel that Kejri should win but what if he can't handle the job. 

-----------


If I'm allowed to assume and presume then I think AAP will form the next government and it will have trained enough of it's candidates to handle the top jobs that we will end up seeing a true revolution of sorts. With one sixth the population of the world, I think this will also have worldly implications. 
Just have to keep fingers crossed that BJP doesn't go as corrupt as congress.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

Okay let's say AAP comes into power and fights against corruption. What about other issues? Will our relation with China Pak be stabilized if corruption is eradicated? Will new jobs will be created only by fighting against corruption? Will we produce excess power by fighting against corruption? Or we go into even more fiscal deficit going by the subsidies as dolled out in the 49 days?

The office of PM is not only for fighting corruption. It is responsible for shaping our foreign policies, military policy et all. And surprisingly AAP has been very silent about all these.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Okay let's say AAP comes into power and fights against corruption. What about other issues? Will our relation with China Pak be stabilized if corruption is eradicated? Will new jobs will be created only by fighting against corruption? Will we produce excess power by fighting against corruption? Or we go into even more fiscal deficit going by the subsidies as dolled out in the 49 days?
> 
> The office of PM is not only for fighting corruption. It is responsible for shaping our foreign policies, military policy et all. And surprisingly AAP has been very silent about all these.



Great civilizations collapsed from within. They died internally. You wouldn't want to give your trust to a corrupt being who can sell it to another on.e


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

i am judgemental on kejriwal because of the hype.if he were to be another politician i wouldn't care but many seems to present him as the best option which i don't agree with.anyway let's take a look at the facts:

1.won good no. of seats,had popular support,offered support by both opposing parties,had an amazing chance to run a govt for full 5 years yet gave up in less than 50 days.this is the man supposed to run entire India for years,laughable.

2.in those 49 days gave relief to defaulting customers while giving a heart burn to those who actually pay bills.same as other parties giving sops to defaulters then crying about budget losses but at least they are shrewd enough to extract financial assistance from centre unlike kejriwal.

3.appoint a law minister who takes law into his own hands,risking India's foreign relations with African countries where China is making huge inroads for strategic gains(something any serious civil services aspirant with just a graduation degree knows),so much for well educated & intellectual people.

4.opposed FDI in multi-brand retail because it hurts small traders when most here would drool at the prospect of buying latest gadgets from amazon international in India or buy that lcd monitor from walmart with no hassle return policy.name is AAP but favours small traders who are definitely not 'aam aadmi'.

5.has no clearly defined foreign policy stand except the statement of "we will try to go along with every body(TV) & won't tolerate terrorism & border incursions".this party is supposed to manage nukes surrounded by 2 hostile nuclear powers,again laughable.what will it do to not tolerate terrorism or border incursions,go to war with pak or china or just issue a statement condemning them?clearly immature when it comes to geopolitics as already shown in point 3 above.

   [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION],democracy relies on both ruling & opposition parties to function smoothly which also means not every party in opposition is inherently bad.AAP will serve the nation better as opposition instead of ruling party compared to bjp or congress in opposition.

P.S.this is modern world not 19th century british empire or 20th century USSR to talk about "collapsing civilizations".


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

Sarath said:


> *By your analysis, I cannot enter politics then just because I don't think like the current breed of politicians.* Of course you can but can you handle it? If you are made PM immediately and you break then people will just lose hope.


A person who can handle the travails of election and has the resilient spirit doesn't look like an idiot PM to me. 



Sarath said:


> Just have to keep fingers crossed that BJP doesn't go as corrupt as congress.


You can see by list of their candidates. A PM who is dependent on incomes from corporate doesn't bode well for future. The return on investment will be paid by our pocket and much more times greater.


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## $hadow (Apr 23, 2014)

^^this is a point everyone is ignoring as of now. They will be inflation (may be even worse than now) and the reason is quite clearly stated above for that.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

^^inflation is not caused by a company/person unless it is a fictional world.main reason of inflation is global economic slowdown coupled with weak economic fundamentals of a country.also India is probably the only country in the world where all corporates/industrialists(whether good or not) are viewed as villains not to be associated with by any politician which is quite ironic considering *most of the working members here are employed in these same corporate houses.people cry over cheap land deals/concessions to corporates but themselves spend hours online looking for best deal discounts used by online retailers to increase their revenue.*


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

Faun said:


> Great civilizations collapsed from within. They died internally. You wouldn't want to give your trust to a corrupt being who can sell it to another on.e




Modi is yet to be proven corrupt. Just read the manifesto of AAP and BJP. You will feel the difference.


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> *Modi is yet to be proven corrupt*. Just read the manifesto of AAP and BJP. You will feel the difference.



Really?!?!?! I mean... really??!?!?


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION],democracy relies on both ruling & opposition parties to function smoothly which also means not every party in opposition is inherently bad.AAP will serve the nation better as opposition instead of ruling party compared to bjp or congress in opposition.
> 
> P.S.this is modern world not 19th century british empire or 20th century USSR to talk about "collapsing civilizations".



I still don't see the point that AAP is only good for opposition. It's like they will be putting a restraining order on the ruling party ? It's like ok dude you are sincere, honest, down to earth but this time we got an experienced, inflated ego, corrupted cabinet which has records with scams, criminal charges but they are giving us results or so it may seem from all the money they put into advertisements (and we are happy with that progress even though we can get much more accelerated progress).

PS: It's the general ingrowing dissatisfaction, moral depravity and immunity from punitive measures (to the ones in power). And you wouldn't know when this thing catches the realization in the form of public outrage ala egypt style or ukraine crisis and wreak blows from inside. What's a civilizations with people not happy ? Why do people prefer living outside of India ? Why do I see no value for life and people fearful of these political-police clouts ? God forbid but if you get killed by someone with great influence, no one will even charge that person. Your parents will probably get 2-3 lacs and that's all. Not many people will even dare to bear testimony as eyewitness if there were any account of the incident. 

I am not looking for a PM. I am rooting for someone who can bring a change in system. That person can be anyone. And that change should start as soon as possible. Surely don't need a lesser evil government if someone is asking as a bargain.

- - - Updated - - -



nomad47 said:


> Modi is yet to be proven corrupt. Just read the manifesto of AAP and BJP. You will feel the difference.



Ask him to have a debate with Kejriwal and Rahul. We do need such kind of healthy discussion to keep the well being of democracy.

At that point we will know the real manifestos.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION],what you are hoping for can not be achieved in India even if by some miracle kejriwal comes to power & even rule for 10 years.Ukraine,Egypt,Tunisia etc have no comparison to India which is unique in its nature.what is India's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness: Diversity.no matter who comes to power & with what majority India will never be changed by mere govt policies or force.only thing that can & will change India is time & technology which are independent of politics though good politics may help saving a few years.also you can not predict the future.there is a difference between having corrupt politicians in cabinet for sake of govt & having corrupt politicians under control in cabinet for the sake of govt not to mention all this will depend on how many seats bjp will get & if it will need the support of other parties.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

^^I am not an idealist if that's what you are thinking. But we have had enough since independence. There are nations which have gone from poor or prosperous within few decades of their independence. 

India is a complex amalgamation of different cultures and religions. I think you are of the opinion that we are a great civilization and everything will be good gradually by evolution but not revolution. No drastic changes.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

Piyush said:


> Really?!?!?! I mean... really??!?!?



Yes really.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

exactly & that is why India exists to this date because there never was a wide spread violent revolution like those happened in western countries.*the day a widespread revolution happen in India will be the beginning of the end of India.*all the founding leaders of India knew it & that is why they created such a constitution to avoid such an event & as you can see they were pretty successful & will continue to do so.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Yes really.



Why doesn't he remove or at least tell his opinion about all the criminals contesting from his party ?


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

Sometimes I think communism is the best thing to have in a country with huge population. But diversity poses the major block against this.
China got her independence after India right? Look where they are now.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> exactly & that is why India exists to this date because there never was a wide spread violent revolution like those happened in western countries.*the day a widespread revolution happen in India will be the beginning of the end of India.*all the founding leaders of India knew it & that is why they created such a constitution to avoid such an event & as you can see they were pretty successful & will continue to do so.



I thought India's constitution was a British legacy ?

Are you in BRF forum ?


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> Yes really.



His party is competing with the likes of SP when it comes to criminals allotted tickets for elections


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

Faun said:


> Why doesn't he remove or at least tell his opinion about all the criminals contesting from his party ?



If I remember correctly he recently made his stand clear that anyone facing criminal charges will be prosecuted according to law.


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

*anyone facing criminal charges will be prosecuted according to law.* 
We all know how strict the laws are against criminals here . I'll share a recent event. Day before yesterday a truck driver mauled 1 small girl and her father while coming from a wrong side. He got away by submitting the cheap bail charges. 
Now, he is just a truck driver with no political support and was able to get away just like that. Do you honestly think the criminals who stood up for elections as candidates will face any wrath from the Indian law?


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> If I remember correctly he recently made his stand clear that anyone facing criminal charges will be prosecuted according to law.



But don't you think that those people shouldn't be allowed to contest ?

Or would you as an honest candidate allow another criminal to lend you support ? And just brush off the people with comments that he will be dealt by law.


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## $hadow (Apr 23, 2014)

^^But the one's in the parliament won't allow to pass such law


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

$hadow said:


> ^^But the one's in the parliament won't allow to pass such law



How can you remove the ones who are doing the dirty job on your behalf and lending you support ? You are not looked at as a goon but by proxy you are the one and the same because you know that removing the goons will be harmful to you. That's what you thrive on where money doesn't influence people. You threaten them, you instill fear in them.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

no,this is first time i heard about BRF forum.yes,India's constitution takes some principles from british constitution but that was mainly because at that time Britain was the most successful parliamentary system in the world but India's constitution also borrows from various other nations' constitutions like USA,Ireland,Canada & Australia.in fact the fundamental rights in India are directly inspired from US bill of rights(those famous amendments including the freedom of speech,right to bear arms etc often seen in tv shows/movies).

P.S.it is very easy for ruling party to frame opposition leaders in false cases.innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of any civilized judiciary system.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

See that's the problem. We do not trust our judicial system anymore. What will Kejriwal do? Will he change the entire constitution? Or will he sit in dharna in front of his own office?

And talking about the criminal charges, what about the AAP candidates with criminal background? What about the one with Maoist connections??


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

After seeing Kasab case, Nirbhaya case, Shakti mills case, etc... yea, I dont have blind faith in our judicial system anymore.


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## Pasapa (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> See that's the problem. We do not trust our judicial system anymore



So who can we trust ?


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> So who can we trust ?



I trust our judicial system. If citizens stop trusting the judicial system the country will go in to chaos. 
I believe a person who has proven himself with good governance for over a decade can and will bring positive change to our country. Period.


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## $hadow (Apr 23, 2014)

Faun said:


> How can you remove the ones who are doing the dirty job on your behalf and lending you support ? You are not looked at as a goon but by proxy you are the one and the same because you know that removing the goons will be harmful to you. That's what you thrive on where money doesn't influence people. You threaten them, you instill fear in them.


May be. 
But the Supreme Court is often overlooked in matters like these. The court passed the order that something should be done to stop people like criminals and others who are blacklisted in terms of law. I mean we should at least not vote against those about whom we have knowledge that these are not meat to be voted. 
Not a person who has a lot of political knowledge but still try to figure out what my bit I can do.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

^^^^agree on that. Supreme court is largely the bastion of justice.

Those who still have pending cases for more than 6 months should not be allowed to contest.


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## gopi_vbboy (Apr 23, 2014)

It looks like modi won the poll.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

Looks otherwise to me. Their spam protecting system worked well to weed out bogus votes.

Update


> *i.imgur.com/CgJZv6z.png*i.imgur.com/4vH4zdH.png
> *i.imgur.com/mwPAQMn.png


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## vkl (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> i am judgemental on kejriwal because of the hype.if he were to be another politician i wouldn't care but many seems to present him as the best option which i don't agree with.anyway let's take a look at the facts:
> 
> 1.won good no. of seats,had popular support,offered support by both opposing parties,had an amazing chance to run a govt for full 5 years yet gave up in less than 50 days.this is the man supposed to run entire India for years,laughable.
> 
> ...


These and many more of such points present things against Kejirwal and his activities.
He many times lied and contradicted himself and has resorted to so called dirty politics,so no point of being "naive".He is rather clever/cunning.
Modi could not have so much power to clean the entire BJP,he has only been a CM at most till now.BJP/Cong and many other parties have lot of corrupts and people who have criminal cases against them.It won't be easy to clean a large party where there can be so many number of corrupts from top to bottom.Let him come to power first,if he is able to clean to a good extent and proceed for cleaner system then that would be good.
But to think that AAP doesn't have any of such guys is not correct.People like Yogesh Dahiya are also present there who have criminal proceedings against them.They have many of the separatists and Naxal,Maoists,terrorists supporters as well.So was he able to have a all-clean party which he has been a convener from a long time?Shazia Ilmi's views were shown yesterday,poor.We can't blame Kejriwal for someone else's views or action,same goes for others like Modi and Rahul Gandhi,unless each of them defend such wrong views.There are unanswered questions regarding the Ford foundation and it's donations as well.

At least Modi is talking more relevant things about administration and planning than both rahul gandhi and kejriwal combined in their respective interviews.Robert Vadra in this country enjoys VIP status without any consitutional position but nobody questions in our paid/frightened media.All they(ak and rg) have been talking is toffee,poison,baloon,RTI,ambani,adani,name calling and some other things.
Anyway actions matter,talks don't neither the manifesto.If Kejriwal instead of doing only accusations submitted some proof against those who he have accused then it would have done good to him and AAP.He won delhi by saying things such as "380 pages of proof againt Sheila" and lying about lokpal but is not ready to submit proof or talk about it.We need proof and if you have proof why are you hiding it?People would be more happy if a corrupt is punished than being privileged.Illegal money or benefits are not the only forms of corruption,moral corruption is also there.
May be Kejirwal's yet to show how good he can work but for now he is as good as the average politician who resorts to cheap politics when required.
Khichdi sarkaar in all probability is going to do more damage than a clear Modi win.It is not like Modi is going to transform and make everything good in a matter of seconds like a god.But out of the three imo he deserves a chance.
We need way stronger and independent judiciary.CBI has effectively been used for sustaining the present Govt lol.



whitestar_999 said:


> P.S.it is very easy for ruling party to frame opposition leaders in false cases.innocent until proven guilty is the cornerstone of any civilized judiciary system.


Agree with this as well


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

I have no idea if the account is authentic, but the following is a status quoted from FB account of Aswini Upadhay.


Twenty questions for Arvind Kejriwal
Dear Arvind Kejriwal Ji,
When I have raised questions as a National Executive of AAP, you alleged that I demanded a Lok Sabha ticket and I am involved in anti-party activities. Rather than replying to my queries, you preferred to expel me without a prior notice, which is against the party constitution.
Either you must prove your allegations against me or publicly apologize for your false allegations otherwise I am bound to approach appropriate courts for legal remedies. Please answer these 20 questions that I have raised.
1. *Janlokpal Bill*: Rather than amending & strengthening the existing Delhi Lokayukta bill, you chose an unconstitutional path that you knew could not pass & then resigned just for political gain. Are you serious about fighting corruption or just politics using Janlokpal?
2. *Ticket to Corrupt people*: Why did you give tickets to corrupt people i.e. Parvez Khalid, Yogesh Dahia, Yuddhbir Khyalia etc? Criminal case of 300 Crores corruption is pending against Dahia?
3.* LS Applicants*: Most of the loksabha tickets were pre-decided or bought and sold by party leaders. Why ask innocent people to apply just for collecting mobile no & email? Why did you make Aruna Singh & Ashok kumar a scapegoat and not expel the big party leaders who bought and sold party Loksabha tickets and were actually responsible for it?
4. *Delhi Jal Board Scam*: Why have you not lodged FIR against then CM in 2005 itself hence you have documents of 400 Crore Delhi Jal Board Scam since 2005? Why did you give these documents to INC leader late Ram Babu Sharma & Ashish Talwar?
5. *Ramdas Family:* Why is the entire family of Kavita Ramdas (Head of Ford Foundation) i.e. Admiral Laxmi Ramdas, Lalita Ramdas, Sagari Ramdas in AAP strategy committees which is against the party constitution? Why did you not adhere to the one family one person rule?
6. *Ford Foundation*: Why did you never demand a high level judicial / CBI inquiry against all direct & indirect beneficiaries of Ford Foundation, Gulf & Foreign countries? MHA report says that NGOs received Rs. 11,500 Crores foreign funds in 2013 but only 2% NGOs filed their returns. Report also says that NGOs vulnerable to risk of terror financing.
7.* Kabir*: How Manish Sisodia received Rs 44 Lacs in 2005 & Rs 32 Lacs in 2006 from Ford foundation while his NGO “KABIR” was registered in November 2007?
8. *Gulf & Foreign Funding*: How much is the total donation Manish Sisodia, Yogendra Yadav, Meera Sanyal & Medha Patekar received directly & indirectly from Ford Foundation, Gulf & Foreign Countries? Can you demand CBI inquiry against Manish Sisodia, Yogendra, Meera & Medha Patekar?
9. *Volunteers Salary*: Why do you selectively speak against Ambani - Adani only but never speak against Jindals - GMR etc.? Who is paying monthly cash salary of 600 full time volunteers @ Rs. 25000 per month since 2013?
10. *Caste& Communal Vote Bank Politics*: You says Batla encounter fake during campaign in Muslim majority Okhla area & pays tribute to Inspector MC Sharma for martyrdom during campaign in Hindu majority Dwaraka area?
Yogendra becomes Yaduvanshi & Yadav in Hindu majority Ahirwal area and becomes Saleem in Muslim majority Mewat area. Ashutosh becomes Gupta in Vaishya majority Chadani Chowk constituency. It’s a unique & classic case of caste-communal vote bank politics.
11. *Vadra Land Deal*: Ashok Khemka canceled Robert Vadra Land deal. Yuddhbir Singh gives clean chit to Robert Vadra & restores his land mutation. You reward Yuddhbir Singh with Hisar Loksabha ticket from Hisar?
12.* Aman Deal 2013*: Isn’t it true that it was decided in Hotel Aman that AAP will contest 350+ Loksabha seats to divide anti-corruption & anti-congress votes? INC would support you for Delhi CM & Yogendra for Harayana CM in case of hung assembly & AAP will support RaGa for PM in case of hung parliament?
13. *Santosh Koli Murder*: Why did you never demand or recommend a high level judicial / CBI inquiry of Santosh Koli murder case during your CM tenure hence you told during entire Delhi assembly campaign that she was murdered by INC & BJP mafias? Where is her postmortem report? Why it not reached to her family members till date?
14. *National Advisory Council*: Isn’t true that you were lobbying for NAC membership with help of INC leader Digvijay Singh, Late Rambabu Sharma & Ashish Talwar in 2005? Isn’t true that INC leader Ram Babu Sharma & Ashish Talwar used your DJB scam documents to destabilize Sheila government in 2005 and assured you NAC entry?
15. *Germany Visit*: Isn’t true that you and INC leader Ashish Talwar together visited Germany in 2005? What was the reason to visit together?
16. *RaGa Meet*: Why does Yogendra Yadav still meet Rahul Gaandhi secretly & you announce Yogendra Yadav for HR CM without consultation?
17. *Ashish Talwar:* Why did you make ex- INC leader Ashish Talwar to the Head of Delhi state AAP unit without appropriate consultation within party?
18. *Pro-Terrorists& Separatists Leader: *Raza Muzaffar Bhatt, Kamal Farooqui, Babu Mathew says Ajamal Kasab, Afazal Guru, Yasin Batkal innocent and you reward Muzaffar Bhat with Loksabha Loksabha ticket?
19. *Pro-Naxals& Pro-Maoists Leader*: Soni Sori, Kamal Chenoy, Binayak Sen, Prashant Bhusan etc says Naxals & Maoist innocent & you reward Soni Sori with Bustar Loksabha ticket?
20.*Democracy Crisis:* Why did you not call National Council meet to discuss party issues? Why did you not resolve internal democracy crisis & eliminate High command culture?
Ashwini Upadhyay : Ex-National Council & Founder Member : AAP:Twitter @ AshwiniUP


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

Well there is a show named ABP news and a program which invites top political figures , makes it possible to ask audience to have a face to face questionnaire with them. Many biggies including Kejriwal and NaMo were invited too. And you know what was special during Modi time? Unlike all other contestants, Modi didnt want to face audience questions. So he had his interview in a closed studio with highest security possible.

- - - Updated - - -

PS: I have no idea who is in the background of this ABP news and stuff.


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> i am judgemental on kejriwal because of the hype.if he were to be another politician i wouldn't care but many seems to present him as the best option which i don't agree with.


And what do you have to say about the hype surrounding Modi? The much-hyped Modi-Wave? ? How do you judge him? Are you against him becoming the PM as well because he is hyped? As far as Kejriwal is concerned, I don't care if he becomes the PM or not. I look at him as the face of the Aam Aadmi Party and the representative of the common man , not their Bhagya Vidhata. This is a battle of ideologies, not Kejriwal vs. Modi vs. Rahul. There may very well be someone in AAP better suited to be the PM than Kejriwal. We just don't know that yet. 



whitestar_999 said:


> anyway let's take a look at the facts:
> 1.won good no. of seats,had popular support,offered support by both opposing parties,had an amazing chance to run a govt for full 5 years yet gave up in less than 50 days.this is the man supposed to run entire India for years,laughable.


You know, what really is laughable is people believing that the Congress ever intended to unconditionally support AAP. Even Sheila Dikshit said and I quote "We had said that we will give them outside support. The support is not unconditional." And it wasn't. They were against AAP on each and every single issue they took up, be it reduction in electricity prices, providing free water or audit of the electricity suppliers. They also opposed AAP and unsurprisingly so, when they ordered SIT probe on the '84 riots. Did I miss anything? Well then, Weren't these part of AAP's manifesto on which the Congress agreed to provide unconditional support? Or is that what you call an unconditional support? And what did BJP do? The same thing of course even after declaring that they will play the role of a constructive opposition. Were the narebaaji and slogans of Kejriwal murdabaad in the LA constructive in any way? Tabling the janlokpal bill in the LA without center's permission was unconstitutional but the way the BJP opposed it by protesting like barbarians was constructive & constitutional? Laughable. And you call it an amazing chance to govern? 
They didn't even want to take support from Cong/BJP but they had to because the people pressurized them. It was BJP's duty to take up the challenge as they had the highest majority but they ran from their responsibility. And do you have any idea what it takes to willingly resign from a position like that when you know that as soon as you give it up you'd lose all the power and authority that you earned through your hard-work all of which will be wasted and you'd again become a nobody? No power-hungry and greedy person would ever do that in their right mind even if he thinks that he has a shot at being PM. It takes a honest and selfless soul to pull out such a move who puts the country before himself and not the other way round.



whitestar_999 said:


> 2.in those 49 days gave relief to defaulting customers while giving a heart burn to those who actually pay bills.same as other parties giving sops to defaulters then crying about budget losses but at least they are shrewd enough to extract financial assistance from centre unlike kejriwal.





TheFallenLord said:


> Yeah, that was a very bad decision on AAP's part. For that one time, I hated them and really hoped that Kejriwal will come out with a formal apology after realizing how unfair it actually was to law-abiding citizens. BTW did he? I don't know. But since then I've forgiven them. After all they're human beings and human beings make mistakes. Although I really do hope this kind of act won't be repeated in the future or they will lose my support for sure.





whitestar_999 said:


> 3.appoint a law minister who takes law into his own hands,risking India's foreign relations with African countries where China is making huge inroads for strategic gains(something any serious civil services aspirant with just a graduation degree knows),so much for well educated & intellectual people.
> 
> 4.opposed FDI in multi-brand retail because it hurts small traders when most here would drool at the prospect of buying latest gadgets from amazon international in India or buy that lcd monitor from walmart with no hassle return policy.name is AAP but favours small traders who are definitely not 'aam aadmi'.
> 
> 5.has no clearly defined foreign policy stand except the statement of "we will try to go along with every body(TV) & won't tolerate terrorism & border incursions".this party is supposed to manage nukes surrounded by 2 hostile nuclear powers,again laughable.what will it do to not tolerate terrorism or border incursions,go to war with pak or china or just issue a statement condemning them?clearly immature when it comes to geopolitics as already shown in point 3 above.


How do you know if Somnath Bharti was guilty? Just as you can't blame Modi for the Gujarat riots as he was given a clean chit by the top courts, similarly you can't blame Bharti as long as he isn't found guilty by the same. 
And why are you reading so much into some random comments made by some random AAP members? How can you be so sure that they don't have a clearly defined foreign policy and that they won't be able to handle geopolitical matters? Why are you making so many presumptions? What are BJP's and Cong's stand on these issues? Do enlighten me.



whitestar_999 said:


> P.S.this is modern world not 19th century british empire or 20th century USSR to talk about "collapsing civilizations".


Believe me, it doesn't matter what century this is, empires and civilizations have risen & fallen in the past and will continue to rise and fall in the future. Everything that has a beginning, has an end as well and it's inevitable. What I'm afraid of is that by putting the country/world in the hands of evildoers, we are just rushing towards the end faster than we're supposed to.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> And do you have any idea what it takes to willingly resign from a position like that when you know that as soon as you give it up you'd lose all the power and authority that you earned through your hard-work all of which will be wasted and you'd again become a nobody? No power-hungry and greedy person would ever do that in their right mind even if he thinks that he has a shot at being PM. It takes a honest and selfless soul to pull out such a move who puts the country before himself and not the other way round.



This act is what takes some real conviction to do that. 

He has made mistakes due to misjudgments but the intentions so far were not bad. If he brings everything that's in the manifesto into the system then that's the best thing that can change the course of India in a good way.

Modi, to me, inspires a false sense of confidence. He looks more like a product to me after so many ads popping up daily on all the sites I am visiting. Hard to avoid modi wave when one notices blatant advertising in your face 24/7. It gets funnier the more you think about it. Good thing that usually adblocker blocks most of the advertisements. But wont be able to block if he comes into power. I hope he shows who is the boss when in power. Otherwise, will be another let down well groomed product.


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## $hadow (Apr 23, 2014)

I read in a daily local newspaper that it took 1 jet and 2 helicopters to make the way of NaMo back home safely. Resulting in about fuel of 1 lac for jet and somewhat similar for choppers.  Ain't that a big wastage of both fuel and money. What is he afraid of?


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## Pasapa (Apr 23, 2014)

Almost every major leader including Kejriwal uses helicopters....


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## Piyush (Apr 23, 2014)

$hadow said:


> I read in a daily local newspaper that it took 1 jet and 2 helicopters to make the way of NaMo back home safely. Resulting in about fuel of 1 lac for jet and somewhat similar for choppers.  Ain't that a big wastage of both fuel and money. What is he afraid of?


Traffic jams may be

- - - Updated - - -



Pasapa said:


> Almost every major leader including Kejriwal uses helicopters....



Not for each and every effing occasion


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> Almost every major leader including Kejriwal uses helicopters....



That's something new that I heard. Whose helicopter is he using ?


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## Pasapa (Apr 23, 2014)

how else is how supposed to travel so much in so little time , one day he is in kerala then next day in UP.. BJP is so dependent on him that they need him on every effing place..


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> how else is how supposed to travel so much in so little time , one day he is in kerala then next day in UP.. BJP is so dependent on him that they need him on every effing place..



Plane tickets may be ? Doesn't take more time than helicopters.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

[MENTION=276279]TheFallenLord[/MENTION],



> And what do you have to say about the hype surrounding Modi? The much-hyped Modi-Wave? ? How do you judge him?


what hype?a govt for 2 consecutive terms in power,under whom the economy went to hell coupled with lots of corruption scandals automatically put the biggest opposition party in good light or did i miss something.that is why you don't see me posting anything concerning modi,& by same logic,congress.



> You know, what really is laughable is people believing that the Congress ever intended to unconditionally support AAP. Even Sheila Dikshit said and I quote "We had said that we will give them outside support. The support is not unconditional." And it wasn't. They were against AAP on each and every single issue they took up, be it reduction in electricity prices, providing free water or audit of the electricity suppliers. They also opposed AAP and unsurprisingly so, when they ordered SIT probe on the '84 riots. Did I miss anything? Well then, Weren't these part of AAP's manifesto on which the Congress agreed to provide unconditional support? Or is that what you call an unconditional support? And what did BJP do? The same thing of course even after declaring that they will play the role of a constructive opposition. Were the narebaaji and slogans of Kejriwal murdabaad in the LA constructive in any way? Tabling the janlokpal bill in the LA without center's permission was unconstitutional but the way the BJP opposed it by protesting like barbarians was constructive & constitutional? Laughable. And you call it an amazing chance to govern?
> They didn't even want to take support from Cong/BJP but they had to because the people pressurized them. It was BJP's duty to take up the challenge as they had the highest majority but they ran from their responsibility. And do you have any idea what it takes to willingly resign from a position like that when you know that as soon as you give it up you'd lose all the power and authority that you earned through your hard-work all of which will be wasted and you'd again become a nobody? No power-hungry and greedy person would ever do that in their right mind even if he thinks that he has a shot at being PM. It takes a honest and selfless soul to pull out such a move who puts the country before himself and not the other way round.


if late P.V.Narasimha Rao(i am guessing most people here don't even know his status as the 'real man behind 1991 economic reforms  his alleged role in the 'money in suitcase' for confidence vote scandal) had the personality of Kejriwal India would probably be right along side Pakistan in economic terms today.If he had half the advantage of kejriwal in delhi assembly election India's economy probably wouldn't be in the mess it is right now.



> How do you know if Somnath Bharti was guilty? Just as you can't blame Modi for the Gujarat riots as he was given a clean chit by the top courts, similarly you can't blame Bharti as long as he isn't found guilty by the same.


what matters is not exactly what happened but that law minister of Delhi was with the crowd at the time of this action.do you really think diplomats from African countries would arrange a high level meeting to express their displeasure on the basis of some random news clipping?it is international diplomacy we are talking about not some usual petty conflict.



> And why are you reading so much into some random comments made by some random AAP members? How can you be so sure that they don't have a clearly defined foreign policy and that they won't be able to handle geopolitical matters? Why are you making so many presumptions? What are BJP's and Cong's stand on these issues? Do enlighten me.


see above & btw those lines i have taken directly from AAP manifesto & the very fact that you are asking about BJP/congress stand proves that you have no idea so let me enlighten you.did you knew that all this time India has "no first use" policy regarding nukes but this time BJP has proposed to change this policy because of Pakistan developing a new strategy to use small tactical nuke to stop indian army advancement because of its superiority in conventional strength & numbers assuming that since such attack will not be directed against Indian cities so it will not be answered in same terms?what it means is if Pakistan uses a small tactical nuke(few km range) to stop Indian army making advances into pakistani territory after some parliament/bombay attack like incident India will retaliate with full nuclear force even if tactical nuke is of very low yield directed only against indian army.



> Believe me, it doesn't matter what century this is, empires and civilizations have risen & fallen in the past and will continue to rise and fall in the future. Everything that has a beginning, has an end as well and it's inevitable. What I'm afraid of is that by putting the country/world in the hands of evildoers, we are just rushing towards the end faster than we're supposed to.


i think you have watched matrix movies too many times.empires & civilizations(& evildoers seriously,what is this,voldemart as minister of magic campaign) are a thing of past & i seriously doubt Americans can elect any prez with IQ lower than 100(a must have if not the only condition for world collapse according to many) when even George W Bush managed to get 120+.


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## Pasapa (Apr 23, 2014)

Well, considering many people hate him for various reasons , i don't think it's safe..


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION],read my previous post where i mentioned P.V.Narsimharao to understand what true conviction means.*Kejriwal's actions don't even compare to the man who is directly or indirectly responsible for many of you being able to even post here for this discussion.*

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._V._Narasimha_Rao


> According to a vernacular source, despite holding many lucrative posts he faced many financial troubles. One of his sons was educated with the assistance of his son-in-law. He also faced trouble in paying fees for a daughter of his who was then studying medicine.[71] According to PVRK Prasad, an IAS officer who was Narasimha Rao's media advisor when the latter was Prime Minister, Rao asked his friends to sell away his house at Banajara hills to clear the dues of advocates.[72] Rao was afraid of dying before clearing his dues to the lawyers.


*all this because he never gained any personal financial favours & dared to oppose Gandhi family by changing the name of the Congress Party from Congress (Indira) to Bhartiya Rashtriya Congress (Indian National Congress).*


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> [MENTION=276279]TheFallenLord[/MENTION],
> 
> see above & btw those lines i have taken directly from AAP manifesto & the very fact that you are asking about BJP/congress stand proves that you have no idea so let me enlighten you.did you knew that all this time India has "no first use" policy regarding nukes but this time BJP has proposed to change this policy because of Pakistan developing a new strategy to use small tactical nuke to stop indian army advancement because of its superiority in conventional strength & numbers assuming that since such attack will not be directed against Indian cities so it will not be answered in same terms?what it means is if Pakistan uses a small tactical nuke(few km range) to stop Indian army making advances into pakistani territory after some parliament/bombay attack like incident India will retaliate with full nuclear force even if tactical nuke is of very low yield directed only against indian army



India now maintains no first use against a non nuclear country, a significant change after 26/11
And also India has made it pretty clear whatever is the magnitude of nuke attack on Indian assets, the retaliation will be to do devastating damage.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

what are you talking about?if & when India officially abandons its no first use policy it will be on front page & on news channels 24/7.read this to increase your knowledge:
*www.indiandefencereview.com/news/revisiting-indias-nuclear-doctrine/


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> what are you talking about?if & when India officially abandons its no first use policy it will be on front page & on news channels 24/7.read this to increase your knowledge:
> *www.indiandefencereview.com/news/revisiting-indias-nuclear-doctrine/



Man please read the article thoroughly. I quote from it
" India’s draft doctrine at the moment has the following key features:
While committed to the goal of a nuclear weapon free world through global, verifiable and non-discriminatory nuclear disarmament, India, till the realisation of this goal, will possess nuclear weapons.
India will build and maintain a credible minimum deterrent.
India will not use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear weapon states.
India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons. But if it is attacked through nuclear weapons in its territory or on Indian forces anywhere, then its  nuclear retaliation to a first strike will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage to the aggressor.
In the event of a major attack against India, or Indian forces anywhere, by biological or chemical weapons, India will also retain the option of retaliating with nuclear weapons"


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

*en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#India.27s_no-first-use_policy

The speech of Shivshankar Menon created quite a buzz back then. Newspaper, TV channels were abuzz with it. Correct me if am wrong, but that was the shift right?


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## gopi_vbboy (Apr 23, 2014)

If i can simplify with historical comparison.
*
Narendra Modi: Ronald Reagan

Arvind kejriwal: Hugo chavez*

Regan transformed US economy and
 other Chavez  screwed economy of Venezuela with socialism.

IMO Namo >Kujli.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

10 numberi said:


> -offensive language-.



A healthy discussion is going on here. Refrain from using such language please.


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## 10 numberi (Apr 23, 2014)

nomad47 said:


> A healthy discussion is going on here. Refrain from using such language please.


Healthy? The country is not healthy.

I have removed my post remove yours too.


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## Faun (Apr 23, 2014)

^^removed the quoted lines. Refrain from using bad language.

And don't write anything with rage in mind. Looking back you will not feel good about that.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

10 numberi said:


> Healthy? The country is not healthy.
> 
> I have removed my post remove yours too.



It seems like you are ordering me to do that.


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 23, 2014)

[MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION],



> India will not use nuclear weapons against non-nuclear weapon states.
> *India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons.*



you wrote:


> India now maintains no first use against a non nuclear country, a significant change after 26/11


your words seems to convey the impression that India can now use nukes first against a nuclear power which is not true.


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## nomad47 (Apr 23, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> [MENTION=154031]nomad47[/MENTION],
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh agreed. But also we will use nukes first if provoked not necessarily by a nuclear attack. 
But NSA indeed told no first use against non nuclear states.

"The Indian nuclear doctrine also reflects this strategic culture, with its emphasis on minimal deterrence, no first use against non-nuclear weapon states and its direct linkage to nuclear disarmament. We have made it clear that while we need nuclear weapons for our own security, it is our goal to work for a world free of nuclear weapons, and that we are ready to undertake the necessary obligations to achieve that goal in a time-bound programme agreed to and implemented by all nuclear weapon and other states."

I have quoted Shivshankar Menon' s speech.


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## moniker (Apr 23, 2014)

Another excellent piece of wisdom by Kejri, taken right out of his.. (Well, it's a 3 letter word, hope nobody gets offended). People should take bribe for voting, the great AAP convenor says, but they should vote for AAP. 

Is this guy even aware of the law of our land?

Why? Here comes the flawless IIT logic - Congress and BJP have swindled money from people, so whatever money they are doling out for getting people to vote for them is the people's money, so it's all right to accept it. What intellect!

*www.janpratinidhi.com/News/T1149/Take-bribes-from-all-vote-for-us-says-AAP-chief


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 23, 2014)

[MENTION=126812]whitestar_999[/MENTION]
So, it's either Congress or BJP for you. Since the Congress failed the country this time, you automatically look up to the BJP as the immediate replacement, without considering other options. Here goes the same old story- Congress goes, BJP comes into power. BJP goes, Congress comes into power which's been going on since independence and that's exactly the reason we're having this discussion. I guess some people tend to stick with the old and proven and are weary of change even if it's for the better. They fear that they might not be able to adapt to the change. In fact, the truth is they can't imagine a life free of corruption because they've gotten used to it. No wonder we're still a developing country and people seem to be quite satisfied with that. I'm sure next time you'll be supporting the Congress when the BJP fails the country this time.

As far as Bharti is concerned, like I said earlier that unless he is found guilty by some court, we should refrain from bringing up this issue every time there's a discussion related to controversies surrounding AAP. Why are you so hell-bent on proving him guilty? Like seriously, why don't you instead bring up the several scams in which Congress and BJP were involved? What about the riots that took place during their reign? What about the countless pending cases of fraud and murder that Congress and BJP MLA's have against them? How do you justify them making pacts with the convicted and giving tickets to people who have pending criminal cases against them?

And I know about the "no first use" policy and of the revisions proposed by BJP in their manifesto. Although last time I checked, they're still sticking to it unlike you've stated in your post. Read this: *www.business-standard.com/article/...se-nuclear-policy-rajnath-114042100933_1.html. Or am I missing something? Can you provide me with a link stating otherwise? BTW what I actually meant was if it does really make a difference? Statements like "will revise and update India's nuke doctrine to make it relevant to current challenges", “maintain a credible minimum deterrent that is in tune with changing geostatic realities” and "deal with cross-border terrorism with a firm hand" and take a "strong stand and steps", do you think AAP couldn't have come up with these in their manifesto if they wanted to? Man the manifesto is nothing but a form of advertisement. It's very similar to the prospectus we were forced to buy when getting admission into a school or college, highlighting all the good and great things about the institution although the real scenario used to be different in most cases. Likewise, the manifesto, most of the times, doesn't sync with the ground realities because if it did, we wouldn't be here discussing all these things.

And lastly, neither have I watched Matrix or any of it's sequels, I swear, nor I'm a Harry Potter fan. But do you really believe that the world will last forever? You may call this a modern world and empires and civilizations a thing of past but that's exactly what the people in the 19th or 20th century would've thought of their time. A time will come when we'll be called primitive and all that is modern for us now will be called a thing of past by the future generations. Is this concept really that difficult to understand?
And BTW, how can you be so sure that the Americans will never elect a president with IQ lower than 100? That's ridiculous.


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## RBX (Apr 24, 2014)

whitestar_999 said:


> those who say let's give AAP a chance don't know what they are talking about.people wouldn't trust a fresh pass out professional for important work in any field be it medicine,engineering,finance no matter how prestigious the institute is & yet some are actually harboring the dream of handing India,the most complex democracy in the world,to a party like AAP.negative of a negative is positive in maths not in real world.just because a party is against corruption doesn't mean it will also have the quality of constructive ideas  regarding governance automatically.
> 
> here are two examples to make this clear:
> a)morarji desai,the former PM of India who could put kejriwal to shame in matters of honesty & simplicity,only because of his naivety did serious damage to R&AW & thus to india's security:
> ...



I've had many debates with people supporting AAP over this. AAP members are clearly inexperienced, and you simply can't run a government by asking people what to do, because everyone is selfish and would put his needs before the nation's.

As for corruption - I'm in favor of a candidate who might be corrupt a bit, but has the ability to move the nation forward. People simply have too much rage against corruption, even when they themselves shamelessly cross red traffic lights, support piracy etc.


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## dashing.sujay (Apr 24, 2014)

Piyush said:


> Sometimes I think communism is the best thing to have in a country with huge population. But diversity poses the major block against this.
> China got her independence after India right? Look where they are now.



China's political structure is communist based, but the economy is heavily capitalised. Kind of Neo-communism.



Piyush said:


> *anyone facing criminal charges will be prosecuted according to law.*
> We all know how strict the laws are against criminals here . I'll share a recent event. Day before yesterday a truck driver mauled 1 small girl and her father while coming from a wrong side. He got away by submitting the cheap bail charges.
> Now, he is just a truck driver with no political support and was able to get away just like that. Do you honestly think the criminals who stood up for elections as candidates will face any wrath from the Indian law?



That truck driver went away because "law" allowed him and he wasn't drunk. Indeed he is guilty, but only for breaking the traffic rules, not for murdering someone, at least he didn't intend to do so. The traffic law states that you just can't impose a murder case on any driver on the basis of reckless driving otherwise half of the Indians would be in jails for attempt to murder case.

PS: No offence is to be taken for the poor family, but if you go by constitution, nothing wrong happened there, and if you're still holding it wrong then it'd be like making a mockery of constitution.


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## Faun (Apr 24, 2014)

dashing.sujay said:


> That truck driver went away because "law" allowed him and he wan't drunk. Indeed he is guilty, but only for breaking the traffic rules, not for murdering someone, at least he didn't intend to do so. The traffic law states that you just can't impose a murder case on any driver on the basis of reckless driving otherwise half of the Indians would be in jails for attempt to murder case.
> 
> PS: No offence is to be taken for the poor family, but if you go by constitution, nothing wrong happened there, and if you're still holding it wrong then it'd be like making a mockery of constitution.



So that means I can finish off my enemies just by letting a truck driver overrun them, right ? He will charged with breaking the traffic rules but not for murder.


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## dashing.sujay (Apr 24, 2014)

Faun said:


> So that means I can finish off my enemies just by letting a truck driver overrun over them, right ? He will charged with breaking the traffic rules but not for murder.



Yes, if you really mean to ask.

Anyway, I'm against that driver letting so easy off, but laws have to be ammended for that. Harsher rules are required here. I was just stating what the laws say.

But, somethings sound too theoritical to be made practical. It'd be too tough to prove the degree of negligence of a driver in an accident. Some natural factors may would have lead to it, or may not. You just cannot assume anything. See it from the legal point of view.


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## Faun (Apr 24, 2014)

^^So then culpable homicide unless evidence suggests it was intended ?
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_homicide


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## Pasapa (Apr 24, 2014)

Meh, you will be charged for culpable homicide if you run over someone with your vehicle unless it was the victim who broke the rules..


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## whitestar_999 (Apr 24, 2014)

[MENTION=276279]TheFallenLord[/MENTION],again with the rhetoric & emotional arguments:


> Here goes the same old story- Congress goes, BJP comes into power. BJP goes, Congress comes into power which's been going on since independence and that's exactly the reason we're having this discussion.


*clearly you don't know that since independence BJP has been into power for a total time of 13 days+1 year+5 years & was the first non-Congress government to last a full term in office.*



> As far as Bharti is concerned, like I said earlier that unless he is found guilty................


*yes according to you everything is fine as long as Bharti is held not guilty by court,diplomatic relations with African nations can go to hell.after all what is international diplomacy compared to a guilty free decision by a delhi court.*



> do you think AAP couldn't have come up with these in their manifesto if they wanted to?Man the manifesto is nothing but a form of advertisement. It's very similar to the prospectus we were forced to buy when getting admission into a school or college, highlighting all the good and great things about the institution although the real scenario used to be different in most cases.


*something is better than nothing.no matter how different the ground reality is you don't go with a school/college who does not even print a prospectus or print one with lots of grammatical errors.it just shows the insincere attitude of an advertiser if he can't even advertise properly.*



> A time will come when we'll be called primitive and all that is modern for us now will be called a thing of past by the future generations. Is this concept really that difficult to understand?


*yes but you would be long gone by that time which is what matters.leave 100+ years predictions to others & focus on next decade.*

it is clear that you lack the knowledge required to continue this debate with me so this is the end of this conversation from my side.*clearly you believe in AAP & i have no issues with that however stick to the core points of corruption free & simple lifestyle etc & admitting there were mistakes instead of trying to defend AAP at all costs because then you would be no different from a modi or rahul gandhi fanatic.*


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 24, 2014)

^^Okay dude. I get it. You are more knowledgeable than me. But there was no need to shout to imply that. It clearly shows your desperation. Anyway, end of conversation from my side as well.


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## Pasapa (Apr 24, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> . It clearly shows your desperation. .





So do you agree with anything he said?


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 24, 2014)

^^No, although I consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunity to debate with a self-proclaimed tome of knowledge. BTW, Why do you ask?


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## Pasapa (Apr 24, 2014)

So you are saying you don't agree with facts? That's just blatant ignorance.. ( i asked if you agree with anything not everything)


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 24, 2014)

^^Would you mind telling me what facts you're referring to except for the one which states the number of years the BJP has been in power at the center, something that every 10th pass in the country would probably be aware of?


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## Pasapa (Apr 24, 2014)

TheFallenLord said:


> ^^Would you mind telling me what facts you're referring to except for the one which states the number of years the BJP has been in power at the center, something that every 10th pass in the country would probably be aware of?


But you didn't know it.. Im not even 

gonna try to tell you anything, you can go and support AAP blindly, nothing is going to stop you from doing so. A sensible person will look at the both sides of the coin.


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## TheFallenLord (Apr 24, 2014)

Pasapa said:


> But you didn't know it.. Im not even


Well, I don't know what makes you think that and I don't want to know. Guess this place is filled with knowledgeable people who think of others as complete idiots. 



Pasapa said:


> gonna try to tell you anything, you can go and support AAP blindly, nothing is going to stop you from doing so.


And nothing is going to stop you as well from blindly supporting BJP.



Pasapa said:


> A sensible person will look at the both sides of the coin.


Are you?


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## Pasapa (Apr 24, 2014)

Who the hell told i support BJP, i didn't vote for them.....
Just because i criticize aap doesn't mean i support bjp or congress......


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## nomad47 (May 16, 2014)

Bumping this old thread. We had a quite a discussion here last time. 

Indians have given their verdict. We are against dynasty politics, against baseless rhetorics and immature politics. We are pro-development, we want a change.
All hail the new power in center. A better tomorrow awaits.


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## Faun (May 16, 2014)

Let's hope it doesn't turn out another scam riddled tenure. 

Amethi people are Indians too.


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