# Indians living abroad-is it really worth it?



## abhijit_reddevil (Feb 26, 2008)

Yes, we are speaking of the so-called NRI's here. People go to countries like USA, UK, Australia, NZ and many others, many for the sole purpose of studying and then return back from India. Others, after finishing their studies and getting their college degrees, get a job and settle down in that country, and after that, apply for permanent citizenship in that country. Still others, in mid-career, go, for example, to USA on H1 visa, apply for green card and then settle there.

I am currently on a project for my company and living, not in a well-known place in the USA. Well, if you are lucky, you can get settled in a big city like Chicago or New York or San Francisco or any other. But majority of the projects to which companies send people from India are in far off places, like me. It's not that whatever I save is 40 times when I get back to India (US $1=Rs.40.25 a few days ago). That cannot be the only motivation. I was not doing so bad back in India, salary-wise or whatever. If you live in a far off place like me, the hardships of life can hit you very hard. Example: You MUST have a car here to commute as these so-called towns do not have a proper transportation system. There is no social life in the evenings and the weekends, you just have to sit at home, watch TV or surf internet, or rent a DVD and watch movies. There's no one to talk to, if you are new to this country or any other country and no place to go. Travel is expensive and then again, you must have a car to take you to nearby places for weekend travel. If you are married and you are stuck in small towns, then there is not much your spouse can do career-wise (your company's project is one of the very few places for employment and that too, if she is appropriately qualified) and she is wasting her valuable time. Additionally, the craze for using exclusive foreign stuff is not so much at present as things got here are also easily available back in India. These are just few examples.

Back in India, you have a social life, family and friends, you can do much on the weekends, do not have to worry about employment anywhere, do not have to worry about getting your spouse a work permit in order to get employment, etc. And above all, the point I like the most is you do not have to worry about plane tickets for getting back to your family. Like from here, getting back to my family will cost me US $2000 approx for a single round trip. Even if you wanted, you cannot visit your family every year.

Is it really worth the trouble? I am getting sick of this place. Are people living abroad year after year unsocial? I do not know what joy they derive out of living alone abroad year after year, without family, friends and without the enjoyment they could have got had they settled back in India only.

These trips are only good for a short term, say 4-6 months, make some dollars, euros, pounds or whatever, and convert the money back to INR and enjoy back in India. I feel my wife and myself would surely become mad if my company tells me to stay here even for 2 years. We are looking forward to getting back after 1 year. It has been only 3 months and I am really sick of staying so called 'abroad'.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 26, 2008)

> am currently on a project for my company and living, not in a well-known place in the USA.



I'd prefer this over city life anytime. Further more you'll be charged less taxes at the same time and have access to pretty much all amenities you would have access to if you were in some Metropolitan City. 



> You MUST have a car here to commute as these so-called towns do not have a proper transportation system. There is no social life in the evenings and the weekends, you just have to sit at home, watch TV or surf internet, or rent a DVD and watch movies. There's no one to talk to, if you are new to this country or any other country and no place to go. Travel is expensive and then again, you must have a car to take you to nearby places for weekend travel. If you are married and you are stuck in small towns, then there is not much your spouse can do career-wise (your company's project is one of the very few places for employment and that too, if she is appropriately qualified) and she is wasting her valuable time. Additionally, the craze for using exclusive foreign stuff is not so much at present as things got here are also easily available back in India. These are just few examples.



I worked in USA for four years and I'm pretty sure that having a car is nice but 90% of the time chances are that there will be some form of public transportation to reach your destination. I tell this to everyone who goes there who I know. When you get a house *always * take one where public transportation is accessible. 

The point about Social Life you make is so untrue. You make your social life what you want. Go outside get a drink , Go to the mall. Visit the Y. There are numerous places you could go to with some searching on the internet or checking with friends. Find out Indian organizations like churches , temples or whatever religious place you prefer etc. You won't meet people staying in your house. You need to take the initiative of going outside and meeting folks.  Check out if there are people in the forum who live near by etc. 

The spouse part may be correct to a certain extent. The optional choices you have is having her go for further education , part time jobs etc.  You could even check with HR at the company and check out if they do have part time jobs open which your spouse might be able to fill. 



> Back in India, you have a social life, family and friends, you can do much on the weekends, do not have to worry about employment anywhere, do not have to worry about getting your spouse a work permit in order to get employment, etc. And above all, the point I like the most is you do not have to worry about plane tickets for getting back to your family. Like from here, getting back to my family will cost me US $2000 approx for a single round trip. Even if you wanted, you cannot visit your family every year.



Yes this is the point I was looking for. Its the same reason why i came back from US. I have a huge family here in India. From my point of view I have much more fun here than I do over there. Yes , unless you're some filthy rich person theres no way you are going to be able to visit your family frequently. 



> Is it really worth the trouble? I am getting sick of this place. Are people living abroad year after year unsocial? I do not know what joy they derive out of living alone abroad year after year, without family, friends and without the enjoyment they could have got had they settled back in India only.
> 
> These trips are only good for a short term, say 4-6 months, make some dollars, euros, pounds or whatever, and convert the money back to INR and enjoy back in India. I feel my wife and myself would surely become mad if my company tells me to stay here even for 2 years. We are looking forward to getting back after 1 year. It has been only 3 months and I am really sick of staying so called 'abroad'.



Personally I would say no . If you have a good way of earning your livelihood  here then why go outside at all? Any time I try to convince my best friends or family members not to go they think I'm insane  . I don't blame them though.As I said above its more like a certain persons perspective. Some people wouldn't mind the trade offs made above.

PS: Earning and saving that much money to come back home and enjoy isn't really smart. Cause you waste ALOT of your time earning it and you'll be too old to enjoy it anyway.


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2008)

Since I'm not a socialized person, I do not have any problem living abroad alone...  But again who knows what will happen in next five years down the road.. After all, life is ever changing.


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## Count Dracula (Feb 26, 2008)

Yes,Why go in abroad,if everything you want is here?.Just study and come back.I'd better watch my India improving than US or something.They just get those qualified guys to the US because they find it that,they can make you work for cheap.


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## esumitkumar (Feb 26, 2008)

very gud topic digitized  ...i share and respect ur sentiments ...even i was onsite for two times ..once in London ..another time in HK ..and i njoyed only when i go out wid frnz ..for some sight seeing etc ..after that it become pretty dull .....

but the fact is that u have to work ..kahin bhi offshore ho ya onsite ....

when i was @onsite ..i needed my parents ...not money but now ..
mind is so confusing..here @ offshore ..i want to go onsite again ..i need money ..better lifestyle ..but i need family,friends also 

lets see +ves n -ves 

+ onsite :

1. better salary
2. better wrkg culture (very less politics ..if ur on client side)
3. sight seeing opportunities
4. better infrastructure 

-ves
1. In asia (HK,singapore,china) long wrkg hours usually 9am to 9 pm
2. You can be racially abused in Europe 
3. Feeling bored n lonely without family,frnz 
4. Have to do all manual work urself (no bai etc)
5. Country n cultural differences 

+ves of offshore :
1. Ur family n frnds are always near 
2. Wrkng in apni country is always smwht comfortable 

- ves offshore :
1. less salary
2. longer wrkg hours (if boss is sitting, u also have to sit)
3. politics bahut hoti hai (ur prmotion depends on how much r u buttering ur lead)
4. worst infra (bad roads,traffic jam,dust,electricity probs)

so my suggestion is that when u have to work ..work @ onsite ..better salary + better work culture 

and rgd emotional probs ..read gud books, see movies (dload by torrents),do a lot of sightseeing, make frnds, go to pubs , take a car etc ..and once in 6 months take a 15 day leave and go to India to rejuvenate urself 

MOTTO is NJOY to the maximum wherever u are !


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2008)

If you get good salary, why pirate movie? Buy it or rent it.. 
My time pass is Play online, #Digit IRC (Till 6AM everyday) and Sleep..


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## FilledVoid (Feb 26, 2008)

> Yes,Why go in abroad,if everything you want is here?.Just study and come back.I'd better watch my India improving than US or something.They just get those qualified guys to the US because they find it that,they can make you work for cheap.



There are WAY better places than America for Education. If I recall correct I saw some site that places America at rank 18 ? Ill have to confirm this btu Im sure its the best place. 



> 1. better salary



Says who? The only people who get Top Dollar are people who are really good in their respective fields. You also have to compare this with the cost of living with here. 



> 3. politics bahut hoti hai (ur prmotion depends on how much r u buttering ur lead)



Any job anywhere depends on the way you act / contribute / establish yourself among your team / team leaders. THis is mainly a flaw with the various Management structures in place in an organization rather than anything to do with geographical facts. Althought there might be some rascist  in companies offshore which might give you a hard time. Although you won't find many of those now a days.


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## Tech_Wiz (Feb 26, 2008)

I did had the oppurtunity to go abroad but I refused only on the grounds that I want to live with my parents.

Leaving parents for "US" life when they need you most is pure selfish. Besides all that one may need is here in India then Why go abroad [Apart from free sex ]


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## gxsaurav (Feb 26, 2008)

East or West, India is the best.

No matter where u r, nothing beats the social & caring life of India. Most people are attracted towards abroad & western countries by watching them on TV. Well, Real life city of New York (example) is not the one they show in Heroes or any other TV Show.


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## victor_rambo (Feb 26, 2008)

Tech_Wiz said:


> I did had the oppurtunity to go abroad but I refused only on the grounds that I want to live with my parents.
> 
> Leaving parents for "US" life when they need you most is pure selfish.


+1


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## abhijit_reddevil (Feb 26, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> *East or West, India is the best.*
> 
> No matter where u r, nothing beats the social & caring life of India. Most people are attracted towards abroad & western countries by watching them on TV.* Well, Real life city of New York (example) is not the one they show in Heroes or any other TV Show.*


 
Correct.

What I get mostly from people's ideas are that the main motivation is high salary. This is where they are most mistaken. I think they convert it, e.g. times 40 to Indian INR and see the difference. E.g: A person getting $3000-$3500 here is no big deal. Big deal is made when we convert this $3000 X Rs.40=Rs.120000....Arrey baap re, month end mein Rs.120000....!!! But that is not the case. We tend to forget that if a person gets $3000 p.m, then he also has to give, say $1000 for apartment rent in a metropolitan city, $300-$400 p.m. for car loan installment, $700-$800 for groceries, if you live with your wife and other miscellaneous expenses. That leaves you a maximum of maybe $300-$400 to save per month. Considering all the trouble you have to go through staying so far away from home, I do not think this is worth it. If your job in India is paying reasonably well, then I think you can save that amount converted to INR. (The average salary for persons with 3-4 yrs experience is around $3000 here).

Well, somebody did mention here that take a house/apartment where it is accessible to public transportation system. If public transportation is good, say every 15 minutes, then it is all right. But when it is every 30 minutes for peak hrs and every 1hr for off-peak hrs, it does not make much of a sense. My apartment is right next to the closest bus route. In Chicago, I have seen buses plying all night and day, every 7 minutes in peak and 15 mins in off peak and every 30 minutes throughout the night. Well, public transportation should be like that, so that you do not have to depend on car all the time.


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## hullap (Feb 26, 2008)

its the persons choice. u can talk and shout all u want here but it wont stop Him/her from going or settleing


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## ancientrites (Feb 27, 2008)

i dont know since i am here in india for a long vacation.i find Gulf countries to be excellent for making money.no taxes,nothing only save,save and save.although i miss my family for every year.at the same time i can call them.big companies provide family allowance etc etc.Now dont get me wrong ppl I feel dubai is like my second home even muscat(oman).TBH I never felt home sick.


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## club_pranay (Feb 27, 2008)

i think it's all about what an individual think or believe.
1. to say staying in america is not social, well i dont think so.. these people work hard during the week, and enjoy as much during the weekends. TO HAVING A SOCIAL CIRCLE IS OUR CHOICE!! i have very good thai friends, loads of american locals! there is a mental barrier we make around ourselfs that these people are different, we keep telling ourselfs that "i dont belong here". thats what makes things difficult.

2. talking about salary, i am getting $10 per hour for working 20 hours per week. equals $200/week = $800/month. i mean in how many countries u can buy a nice moderate car from your one year PART TIME SALARY??

3. about america's education standards? i am not sure, considering quality, placements, and salary i dont think anyone can come close.. one site may say so, but all other sites put america on top.. (i am talking about overall package)

leaving our home, our country was never easy.. it's not just our home, it's our identity. our country is the one who has given us our passport.

remember the time we cried when leaving for the school for the first time! it's the same feeling!
but sometimes, we have to take tough decisions, for the sake of our parents and future generations.


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## NucleusKore (Feb 27, 2008)

club_pranay said:


> .......but sometimes, we have to take tough decisions, for the sake of our parents and future generations.



I may not be in the U.S.A. (not yet  ) but you sure have a point there.


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## abhijit_reddevil (Feb 27, 2008)

club_pranay said:


> i think it's all about what an individual think or believe.
> 1. to say staying in america is not social, well i dont think so.. these people work hard during the week, and enjoy as much during the weekends. TO HAVING A SOCIAL CIRCLE IS OUR CHOICE!! i have very good thai friends, loads of american locals! there is a mental barrier we make around ourselfs that these people are different, we keep telling ourselfs that "i dont belong here". thats what makes things difficult.
> 
> 2. talking about salary, i am getting $10 per hour for working 20 hours per week. equals $200/week = $800/month. i mean in how many countries u can buy a nice moderate car from your one year PART TIME SALARY??
> ...


 
America's education is top class, I agree.

Speaking of tough decisions, I think when people go to the US to make money, they may be already 26-28 yrs old. Calculating backwards, parents may be at that time around 60 yrs old. Being the only son of my parents and my father, 63 yrs old, recovering from a brain haemmorage a few days ago, leaving was never easy. However, our only motivation was to recover the cost of the hospitalization expenses and perhaps the cost towards our marriage a few months earlier.

I think we are missing a point here. Short term trips are okay, like us. My question was the effectiveness (maybe this is not the correct word) of staying for a long term, or perhaps becoming a citizen altogether, of another country.


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## club_pranay (Feb 27, 2008)

digitized said:


> America's education is top class, I agree.
> 
> Speaking of tough decisions, I think when people go to the US to make money, they may be already 26-28 yrs old. Calculating backwards, parents may be at that time around 60 yrs old. Being the only son of my parents and my father, 63 yrs old, recovering from a brain haemmorage a few days ago, leaving was never easy. However, our only motivation was to recover the cost of the hospitalization expenses and perhaps the cost towards our marriage a few months earlier.
> 
> I think we are missing a point here. Short term trips are okay, like us. My question was the effectiveness (maybe this is not the correct word) of staying for a long term, or perhaps becoming a citizen altogether, of another country.


 i agree with your point and respect your reason for going..
that's what i said.. it's all about the reason.. you didnt go there to party, i didnt go for spending fortunes at the casino.. we have a purpose to be here.. that's what drives us, and trust me, if we're following that reason, it's realy worth it!


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## FilledVoid (Feb 27, 2008)

> A person getting $3000-$3500 here is no big deal. Big deal is made when we convert this $3000 X Rs.40=Rs.120000....Arrey baap re, month end mein Rs.120000....!!! But that is not the case. We tend to forget that if a person gets $3000 p.m, then he also has to give, say $1000 for apartment rent in a metropolitan city, $300-$400 p.m. for car loan installment, $700-$800 for groceries, if you live with your wife and other miscellaneous expenses. That leaves you a maximum of maybe $300-$400 to save per month.



For a $1000 apartment you better be getting free amenities  like heat , electricity and water cause that sounds like alot of money . For $800 we were living in an apartment in Philly with the above free. Anyway leave that as it is . I guess it might be higher in Metro's. Remember this if you plan to stay long term. Rent is sunken money. You gain no benefit from it. The best option is always to buy a house. (Yes I know you're screaming bloody murder by now, but it really isnt that hard tog et a house in US). I'm guessing you went and bought a new car?  When you are new to US and you buy a car on installment your credit rating is taken into account for and the interest is calculated accordingly. Thus you end up paying alot more than you should. The same is the case for car insurance usually. If you haven't been driving in US for a long time or a kid you're insurance rates will be atrocious. I tell my friends always to get a used car for a few years and then get a new car only. Hence saving you the money on Insurance and the car. 



> Well, somebody did mention here that take a house/apartment where it is accessible to public transportation system. If public transportation is good, say every 15 minutes, then it is all right. But when it is every 30 minutes for peak hrs and every 1hr for off-peak hrs, it does not make much of a sense



There are certain things you need to understand. If you are living in a remote area then city taxes don't apply. You might not have frequent rides to work . But the point is you DO have rides. Just not as frequent as YOU would like them to be. You can't have everything all at once. When you make a house taking decision you need to first prioritize what you need and then take a house accordingly. I'm sorry to say that if you are paying 1k $ for a house in some remote hick town then you've made a HUGE error.

By the way where do you guys get these stats that American Education is the best???? I agree that in  the Top Universities theres quite a few in the USA list but if you consider schooling over there . There are quite a few countries way better than USA as far as I can recall.


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## vish786 (Feb 27, 2008)

I too wanted to discuss this topic seriously, but couldnt find the right person to trust on & talk too...

@digitzed thanQ for bringing up this issue... & thanks to others for their _sincere & honest_ response.

Hope Kiran_tech_mania gives his inputs.


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## priyankarules.com (Feb 27, 2008)

I dont like going US.. 

I like INDIA.. 

Hindustan zindabad..


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## nix (Feb 27, 2008)

indians should stick to their own country. its better to be here rather than losing out on family life, social function et all.. you will really miss al this when you go there. + you can never feel comfortable there as you know that you dont belong to that place. the ppl always see you as talking away their jobs.. i will stay here.


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## amol48 (Feb 27, 2008)

Firstly Good topic !!

Here's what I have to say:

* You should ask this to only those who have lived a life or atleast know someone there. 
* Others can never give you the right answer
* The choice will depend on the individual and rather than going by the number of people saying yes or no, I think you should ask like minded people what they think of and consider their opinion. 

In every case you can't count number of votes and take a decision. According to me, YES it's WORTH the EFFORTS (would like to replace your word 'trouble') you give in. This thing is totally dependent on what you want to do in your life ! Just like someone here listed +ves and -ves (I liked it) offsite and onsite work, similarly I listed the +ves and -ves for me and found that for me US would be a better option any day than India.


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## esumitkumar (Feb 27, 2008)

^^ GOT IT FWD AS A MAIL RECENTLY ...very true indeed------------->

*ONE BEDROOM FLAT... WRITTEN BY AN INDIAN SOFTWARE ENGINEER*..
-A Bitter Reality 
* 
As the dream of most parents I had acquired a degree in Soft ware Engineering and joined a company based in USA, the land of braves and opportunity. 
When I arrived in the USA, it was as if a dream had come true.* 
*Here at last I was in the place where I want to be. I decided I would be staying in this country for about Five years in which time I would have earned enough money to settle down in India. 
My father was a government employee and after his retirement, the only asset he could acquire was a decent one bedroom flat. 
I wanted to do some thing more than him. I started feeling homesick and lonely as the time passed. I used to call home and speak to my parents every week using cheap international phone cards. Two years passed, two years of Burgers at McDonald's and pizzas and discos and 2 years watching the foreign exchange rate getting happy whenever the Rupee value went down. 
Finally I decided to get married. Told my parents that I have only 10 days of holidays and everything must be done within these 10 days. I got my ticket booked in the cheapest flight. Was jubilant and was actually enjoying hopping for gifts for all my friends back home. If I miss anyone then there will be talks. After reaching home I spent home one week going through all the photographs of girls and as the time was getting shorter I was forced to select one candidate. 
In-laws told me, to my surprise, that I would have to get married in 2-3 days, as I will not get anymore holidays. After the marriage, it was time to return to USA , after giving some money to my parents and telling the neighbors to look after them, we returned to USA . 
My wife enjoyed this country for about two months and then she started feeling lonely. The frequency of calling India increased to twice in a week sometimes 3 times a week. Our savings started diminishing. After two more years we started to have kids. Two lovely kids, a boy and a girl, were gifted to us by the almighty. Every time I spoke to my parents, they asked me to come to India so that they can see their grand-children. 
Every year I decide to go to India .. But part work part monetary conditions prevented it. Years went by and visiting India was a distant dream. Then suddenly one day I got a message that my parents were seriously sick. I tried but I couldn't get any holidays and thus could not go to India.. The next message I got was my parents had passed away and as there was no one to do the last rights the society members had done whatever they could. I was depressed. My parents had passed away without seeing their grand children. 
After couple more years passed away, much to my children's dislike and my wife's joy we returned to India to settle down. I started to look for a suitable property, but to my dismay my savings were short and the property prices had gone up during all these years. I had to return to the USA.. 
My wife refused to come back with me and my children refused to stay in India.. My 2 children and I returned to USA after promising my wife I would be back for good after two years. 
Time passed by, my daughter decided to get married to an American and my son was happy living in USA... I decided that had enough and wound-up every thing and returned to India. I had just enough money to buy a decent 02 bedroom flat in a well-developed locality. 
Now I am 60 years old and the only time I go out of the flat is for the routine visit to the nearby temple. My faithful wife has also left me and gone to the holy abode. 
Sometimes I wondered was it worth all this? My father, even after staying in India, had a house to his name and I too have the same nothing more. 
I lost my parents and children for just ONE EXTRA BEDROOM. 
Looking out from the window I see a lot of children dancing. 
This damned cable TV has spoiled our new generation and these children are losing their values and culture because of it. I get occasional cards from my children asking I am alright. Well at least they remember me. 
Now perhaps after I die it will be the neighbors again who will be performing my last rights, God Bless them. But the question still remains 'was all this worth it?' 
I am still searching for an answer...... ......... .!!! 
** 
... WRITTEN BY AN INDIAN SOFTWARE ENGINEER..-* A Bitter Reality


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## ancientrites (Feb 27, 2008)

oh boy that mail is sad but i am not affected muhahaha.i dont want dollar all i am happy with my current Dirhams


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## int86 (Feb 27, 2008)

Story of film Namesake


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## FilledVoid (Feb 27, 2008)

That post is sad.....and very hard on the eyes . Why does everyone post the whole topic in bold and red, blue , flashing neon colors . 

As I said in the beginning 



> PS: Earning and saving that much money to come back home and enjoy isn't really smart. Cause you waste ALOT of your time earning it and you'll be too old to enjoy it anyway.



The letter is a standard story of People going and settling in US. If I got a Rs.1 for each time I heard a simlair story I'd probably had enough money to get me a new laptop.



> oh boy that mail is sad but i am not affected muhahaha.i dont want dollar all i am happy with my current Dirhams



Not to burst your bubble. But most likely you will . Not now probably after a few years or when you grow old.


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## abhijit_reddevil (Feb 27, 2008)

int86 said:


> Story of film Namesake


 
+1...I too have seen the film. Has some similarities with Irfan Khan's character.



exx_2000 said:


> For a $1000 apartment you better be getting free amenities  like heat , electricity and water cause that sounds like alot of money . For $800 we were living in an apartment in Philly with the above free. Anyway leave that as it is . I guess it might be higher in Metro's. Remember this if you plan to stay long term. Rent is sunken money. You gain no benefit from it. The best option is always to buy a house. (Yes I know you're screaming bloody murder by now, but it really isnt that hard tog et a house in US). I'm guessing you went and bought a new car? When you are new to US and you buy a car on installment your credit rating is taken into account for and the interest is calculated accordingly. Thus you end up paying alot more than you should. The same is the case for car insurance usually. If you haven't been driving in US for a long time or a kid you're insurance rates will be atrocious. I tell my friends always to get a used car for a few years and then get a new car only. Hence saving you the money on Insurance and the car.
> 
> 
> 
> There are certain things you need to understand. If you are living in a remote area then city taxes don't apply. You might not have frequent rides to work . But the point is you DO have rides. Just not as frequent as YOU would like them to be. You can't have everything all at once. When you make a house taking decision you need to first prioritize what you need and then take a house accordingly. I'm sorry to say that if you are paying 1k $ for a house in some remote hick town then you've made a HUGE error.


 
Well, I was speaking about rent in metropolitan cities. For me it is around $550 per month including gas, heat and electricity.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 27, 2008)

> Well, I was speaking about rent in metropolitan cities. For me it is around $550 per month including gas, heat and electricity.



Much Much better


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## amol48 (Feb 27, 2008)

esumitkumar said:


> ^^ GOT IT FWD AS A MAIL RECENTLY ...very true indeed------------->



This is very common forwarded mail an even I received it way back. I don't see a SINGLE reason to think twice after reading that mail. I know perhaps more working people in US than in India in IT sector(since it's in your mail) and hence can surely say that only a fool or mis-managed person will face the situation as mentioned in your mail. 
Also, I stated in my post and I would like to remind you that ONCE again that I am not saying that US is good for everyone, but to only those who prefer its positive points more than its negative ones which apply to them !!! I hope this clears your confusion !!

*Offtopic:*
@ exx_2000 
Your siggy says: "Join the Revolution! Format c: !" well for me it's no revolution. It's like weekly task more


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## ancientrites (Feb 28, 2008)

exx_2000 wrote Not to burst your bubble. But most likely you will . Not now probably after a few years or when you grow old.[/quote]

Gulf is different from USA.When i say Dubai its SPECIAL.Every thursday i call my parents every 6 months i get vacation allowance,retirement benefits,free transportation,Free accomodation(sharing room)the only expense is incurred on food and personal expense.Life in dubai rocks and goes on.


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## amol48 (Feb 28, 2008)

ancientrites said:


> exx_2000 wrote Not to burst your bubble. But most likely you will . Not now probably after a few years or when you grow old.



But I didn't say anything to exx_2000 buddy ???!!!

@esumitkumar
I remembered the original name of this email forward. It's "*Was it worth*" and not "One Bedroom Flat" It's about 3 years old I think when I first read it.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 28, 2008)

> Gulf is different from USA.When i say Dubai its SPECIAL.Every thursday i call my parents every 6 months i get vacation allowance,retirement benefits,free transportation,Free accomodation(sharing room)the only expense is incurred on food and personal expense.Life in dubai rocks and goes on.



Ive been to Dubai and worked there. You can get all the benefits mentioned above other than the Taxes part (Gulf countries follow Islamic banking rules AFAIR) in USA. As I said there are certain tradeoffs you have to make. Ever heard of the saying "Home is where the Heart is." You might enjoy Dubai and I hope you enjoy it for your entire stay there, but Im thinking that a majority of people India who grew up here would prefer to stay at home if they had the chance to earn a decent living and also has experienced life in a country like US. (I'm one of them)



> But I didn't say anything to exx_2000 buddy ???!!!


His quote tags got screwed up. he wasn't refering to you so dont worry  .

Off topic:


> Your siggy says: "Join the Revolution! Format c: !" well for me it's no revolution. It's like weekly task more



Lol I have to change that. I just can't think of a good one I guess  .


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## esumitkumar (Feb 28, 2008)

thanks mate


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## int86 (Feb 28, 2008)

Might be offtopic:

Consider people working away from home for 1k -2k domestically. Yes you read it right there are plenty.  Here we have much know how than them and consider world to be small, but for them India is a vast piece of land. For them visting home means spending around Rs 400 is same as for you spending 1000$

And they are very much in number than working visa holders. They also suffer homesickness and feel miserable at money power.
 So problem is vast.
I dont know what i actually wanted to say.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Feb 28, 2008)

I would like to see responses from peeps in countries other than USA\UK\Gulf,like in europe.

IMO going to USA is not worth it.Just my gut feeling .I dont like stupid racist people.

Heck I can't even manage a few days from my home_sweet_home,I went to some city in maharashtra(name withheld) for an interview and I was thinking all the time "how will I survive here?" different people,different cuisine,language was a barrier too(most people cudn't understand hindi or english or maybe they were just neglecting me).And then I saw the most amazing scene of my life which I will never forget,two people selling POT(marijuana) right at the back wall of police station..

slightly OT but I think in the end it doesn't matter(to you) how much you earn or what other people think about you but your little joys of life that you missed.You actually earn all those $$$ for your spouse(sometimes) and kids,but you usually end up ruining your own life.Now it all boils down if you want to make that sacrifice or not.


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## Kiran.dks (Feb 29, 2008)

First of all thanks to Vish786 for pointing out this thread to me.


The_Devil_Himself said:


> IMO going to USA is not worth it.Just my gut feeling .I dont like stupid racist people.


Not a good statement from you. How could you say that without ever going there? My 7 months of experience in US has been awesome. People are very friendly, polite. And tell me where on earth don't you see racism? Racism can be seen in India too. Open your eyes and know the world. Sorry, if I hurt you. But such words are not good to be said anytime, anywhere. I never expected people in US to be so good. I have never faced nor seen racism here. Those are all things of past. Indian's are respected here equally. It all comes down to "person's character" and not what work one does here nor where he/she is from. This applies to both professional field and common life.

Now coming to the thread subject....

Yes. It is worth it.  Money is one of the factor but not the prime factor. "Quality" work is one of the main reason. It may sound too good. But that's the case. In my 6 years of work experience, I have never _done_ quality work in India as I have done here in 7 months. When I say "Quality", it's knowledge+work. That's the main reason people will get highly paid when he/she returns to India. Are companies in India fools to do so? The main reason is knowledge and experience. So knowledge and money comes together here. And that's the main reason for coming to US. if anyone is interested, I can go in detail about what the heck "Quality" work I am referring to. Ofcourse one important thing to keep in mind before accepting offer to US is first know "Which company you are going to work in?". That makes a hell lot of difference to your life.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Feb 29, 2008)

^^^^you cannot deny the fact that USA is one of the racist countries in the world(India being right at the top,we are born racists).I have no personal experience as you but reading from various news and articles in newspapers,people do face racism quite often there and it can be really a mentally breaking situation when you have no one to 'talk' to.

And you really don't have to 'go' everywhere to 'know' about it..Just my two cents though and I may even end up in there if I get a good opportunity,.

anyways do we have people from other countries?faraaz?


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## Tech_Wiz (Feb 29, 2008)

I seen real life examples of Guys of my age going to US just after Graduation and turning into wannable US Culture inhumans and What they see their parents is a Place where you send a Money Order each month and then forget about them.

It isnt exactly a cool deal. Family Life and having the feeling of being cared / loved and vice versa with dear ones is much more valuable than Extra $$ in bank account.

And Blind truth is Once a guy get used to US life Style it is almost mission impossible for him to get back and settle in India again and IMPOSSIBLE for his US born children to get suited in Indian Way  of life if he decided a bit too late to get back home.

India also has good jobs and almost everything that abroad can give it. THe Exchange rates may look pretty but they are isnt worth the cost you pay for it. 

People is Middle East have altogether different story though. These people have to compromise a lot in that envirment and really want to get back as soon as possible. Most guys return back in 3-5 years time. I have seen hardly any one settled there with family. But again whether the COST paid to get the Dinars worth solely depends on the mindset of the guy.


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## amitava82 (Feb 29, 2008)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> ^^^^you cannot deny the fact that USA is one of the racist countries in the world(India being right at the top,we are born racists).I have no personal experience as you but reading from various news and articles in newspapers,people do face racism quite often there and it can be really a mentally breaking situation when you have no one to 'talk' to.
> 
> And you really don't have to 'go' everywhere to 'know' about it..Just my two cents though and I may even end up in there if I get a good opportunity,.
> 
> anyways do we have people from other countries?faraaz?


I'm sure when you come to US, you will change your opinion. Don't just reach to conclusion  by your "gut feelings" and some "news articles". I say Americans are most polite and friendly people I have come across. You need to experience it to believe it.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Feb 29, 2008)

^^nice to hear it,looks like I'll have to go to this amazing country atleast once.But I wonder why newspaper people keep bashing it?


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## FilledVoid (Feb 29, 2008)

> Racism can be seen in India too.



True. But not ot the extent of as much as I have seen in US. Personally I've never faced rascism at my worlplace. I guess I worked with more nice people. However outside of the workplace its a different story. After WTC ever try driving alone on the NJ TurnPike? Might be a bit of an exxaggeration. But still I have had experiences which would prove otherwise. Were any of you there when the WTC incident occured? How about a month later? However I don't blame them ... that was the most atrocious piece of terrorism I've personally seen.



> I say "Quality", it's knowledge+work. That's the main reason people will get highly paid when he/she returns to India. Are companies in India fools to do so? The main reason is knowledge and experience. So knowledge and money comes together here. And that's the main reason for coming to US. if anyone is interested, I can go in detail about what the heck "Quality" work I am referring to. Ofcourse one important thing to keep in mind before accepting offer to US is first know "Which company you are going to work in?". That makes a hell lot of difference to your life.



Quality of work would be subjective. As a matter of fact this whole topic would be as well. Didn't the week or Business World run a story on the Quality of Work in the IT Industries soem time ago. I was rather suprised by the facilities provided for employees. Now as far as knowledge , I'll give you this point to a certain extent. However I must say that if you're working in a team then your knowledge is improved based on the quality of your team rather than anything based Geographical location of your work. 



> And Blind truth is Once a guy get used to US life Style it is almost mission impossible for him to get back and settle in India again and IMPOSSIBLE for his US born children to get suited in Indian Way of life if he decided a bit too late to get back home.



Pure myth. One of the oldest also I must say. People tend to convince themselves that they can't leave. The truth is rather they choose not cause of some age old belief that they are much better off there in the US or where ever than back at home.  

But then again , there are cases where people have to go for the better good  . I'm not here to try to convince them otherwise. All Im trying to convey that if you somehow think that working in US is an oasis or somethign. Then seriously you need to have a reality check.


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## esumitkumar (Feb 29, 2008)

> And Blind truth is Once a guy get used to US life Style it is almost mission impossible for him to get back and settle in India again and IMPOSSIBLE for his US born children to get suited in Indian Way of life if he decided a bit too late to get back home.


^^ +1 .....my cousin who has settled in US for the past 15 yrs has 2 kids ..the elder one cant speak hindi  despite all the attempts by him to teach ..when the child interacted with me ..he was speaking english like an american  ..he is only 8 yr old ....


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## amol48 (Feb 29, 2008)

Tech_Wiz said:


> I seen real life examples of Guys of my age going to US just after Graduation and turning into wannable US Culture inhumans and What they see their parents is a Place where you send a Money Order each month and then forget about them.



This is totally UNTRUE. It doesn't depend whether one goes to US or any other country or is working in INDIA. It's all dependent on person's character. 



esumitkumar said:


> ^^ +1 .....my cousin who has settled in US for the past 15 yrs has 2 kids ..the elder one cant speak hindi  despite all the attempts by him to teach ..when the child interacted with me ..he was speaking english like an american  ..he is only 8 yr old ....



What's the problem with it then yaar if his accent is English ?? That's obvious. How does it affect to you I don't know !!


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## NucleusKore (Feb 29, 2008)

esumitkumar said:


> ^^ +1 .....my cousin who has settled in US for the past 15 yrs has 2 kids ..the elder one cant speak hindi  despite all the attempts by him to teach ..when the child interacted with me ..he was speaking english like an american  ..he is only 8 yr old ....



And what will he do speaking Hindi or any Indian language in the U.S. ? Nothing will come of it.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 29, 2008)

> What's the problem with it then yaar if his accent is English ?? That's obvious. How does it affect to you I don't know !!





> And what will he do speaking Hindi or any Indian language in the U.S. ? Nothing will come of it.



Well in the short run absolutely nothing. In the long run though you've just annihilated your family from your own home country. Your kids won't come back not because of the language but because they prefer to stay in US.  The scenario continues and ultimately Ill reach where I said above but due to my own personal preferences I'd prefer not to go there fearing that the people outside of India in this forum think I'm somone trying to scare the living lights out of them


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## amol48 (Feb 29, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> Well in the short run absolutely nothing. In the long run though you've just annihilated your family from your own home country. Your kids won't come back not because of the language but because they prefer to stay in US.  The scenario continues and ultimately Ill reach where I said above but due to my own personal preferences I'd prefer not to go there fearing that the people outside of India in this forum think I'm somone trying to scare the living lights out of them



Ok I have moved on to US or any other country and now no one here in India knows me and this is what you fear, right ? But tell me what's the use or problem if no one here knows me. I don't have to do anything with it coz people where I live know know me. That's it and that's what I want!! You only want the people to know you where you live. This IS necessary. The second thing is NOT mandatory, it's just good if wherever you go people know you but sure not mandatory. !!?? 
Your are annihilated from India is what you say. Yes that's right. But I make my new identity there in my new country. So that comes out to be equal !! Where's the problem bro ?


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## esumitkumar (Feb 29, 2008)

> Well in the short run absolutely nothing. In the long run though you've just annihilated your family from your own home country. Your kids won't come back not because of the language but because they prefer to stay in US. The scenario continues and ultimately Ill reach where I said above but due to my own personal preferences I'd prefer not to go there fearing that the people outside of India in this forum think I'm somone trying to scare the living lights out of them


 
^^++1 ...



> What's the problem with it then yaar if his accent is English ?? That's obvious. How does it affect to you I don't know !!


his english accent doesnt affect me ..what affects me ..is he doesnt know a word of hindi despite indian parents n his younger bro also knows hindi


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## abhi_10_20 (Feb 29, 2008)

Kiran_tech_mania said:


> I can go in detail about what the heck "Quality" work I am referring to.



Please comment on the "quality" work you mentioned....thanks..


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## NucleusKore (Feb 29, 2008)

esumitkumar said:


> his english accent doesnt affect me ..what affects me ..is he doesnt know a word of hindi despite indian parents n his younger bro also knows hindi



So what? Isn't he an American citizen? If he is an American I think his allegiance is very clear. In India we are so obsessed with caste, language, region, etc. Like the others are "DIFFERENT". I do hope we one day become like the U.S., and all these differences simply meltdown and cease to exist.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 29, 2008)

> Ok I have moved on to US or any other country and now no one here in India knows me and this is what you fear, right ? But tell me what's the use or problem if no one here knows me. I don't have to do anything with it coz people where I live know know me. That's it and that's what I want!! You only want the people to know you where you live. This IS necessary. The second thing is NOT mandatory, it's just good if wherever you go people know you but sure not mandatory. !!??



Know you??? Its not a matter of having new friends or being popular in the crowd. Its a matter of tradition or legacy continuing on. On the contrary theres not many people who probably care for this nowadays. What youve mentioned above is a short term consequence. The Long term consequence is that your family basically ends back at home cause you dont exist there. 



> Your are annihilated from India is what you say. Yes that's right. But I make my new identity there in my new country. So that comes out to be equal !! Where's the problem bro ?



I will say this loud and clear. No matter how hard you try and how well you adapt to the environment there you will never be considered equal or feel equal. You might eventually convince yourself that hell I feel great. But the saying stands "Home is where the heart is."


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## vish786 (Mar 1, 2008)

Kiran_tech_mania said:


> But that's the case. In my 6 years of work experience, I have never _done_ quality work in India as I have done here in 7 months. When I say "Quality", it's knowledge+work. That's the main reason people will get highly paid when he/she returns to India. Are companies in India fools to do so? The main reason is knowledge and experience. So knowledge and money comes together here. And that's the main reason for coming to US. if anyone is interested, I can go in detail about what the heck "Quality" work I am referring to. Ofcourse one important thing to keep in mind before accepting offer to US is first know "Which company you are going to work in?". That makes a hell lot of difference to your life.



you never had a Quality work in india   whats that suppose to mean, and you receive a better one as soon as you drop in US ?


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## RCuber (Mar 1, 2008)

NRI = Not Required for India?


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## Gigacore (Mar 1, 2008)

^ welcome back bro


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## nish_higher (Mar 1, 2008)

Charan said:


> NRI = Not Required for India?


+100000~~~ 

and talkin abt english accent--one of my cousins lives in germany.he does not know english and i don't know german  .this s*cks.the worst part-he came to india to my place 
more worse-we went trekking.. 
it was like meeting a human primitive..now he might have decided to learn english before he comes back.


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## club_pranay (Mar 1, 2008)

Charan said:


> NRI = Not Required for India?


excuse me???
be careful with your words!

before making such assaults at someone's sentiments, think about one good thing you have done for our country. which makes you "so required"

think about it!!

when u leave your home does that mean you dont need a home or your family dont need you??

if you still think we are "not required" dont ever, EVER! feel proud reading about indians like mittal, sabeer bhatia, bobby jindal, and many many more!!


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## Kiran.dks (Mar 2, 2008)

abhi_10_20 said:


> Please comment on the "quality" work you mentioned....thanks..





vish786 said:


> you never had a Quality work in india   whats that suppose to mean, and you receive a better one as soon as you drop in US ?



Yes indeed. US has technology and India has youth. And quality work is subjective - doesn't mean that whom-so-ever goes to US will get quality work to do. I am not sure about software field, but I can tell about my area of work i.e. Design of automobiles using CAD Software. India's automobile industry is developing. Most of our major manufacturer's like Tata, Mahindra need technology for rapid progress. Hence you are seeing major overseas takeovers. US or especially Michigan state is a automobile hub. They have quality manufacturer's like GM, Ford and other brands. And invasion of Japanese manufacturer's like Honda, Toyota have further increased the automobile market in US. And working in such major companies is nothing but the highest quality work one can do and learn. The method of manufacturing Cars and SUV's in highest possible fit, finish and efficiency is tricky. Those are all the things to learn from these manufacturers.


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## RCuber (Mar 2, 2008)

club_pranay said:


> before making such assaults at someone's sentiments, think about one good thing you have done for our country. which makes you "so required"


I pay all my taxes here in India Only .. 



> when u leave your home does that mean you dont need a home or your family dont need you??



well.. if one has decided to leave for other country then he knows all the risk involved. 



> if you still think we are "not required" dont ever, EVER! feel proud reading about indians like mittal, sabeer bhatia, bobby jindal, and many many more!!



I dont feel anything about those guys.. I feel proud when a young boys and girls come up with innovative inventions in small villages here, to over come their difficult lives with limited resources.If given chance I would go and teach in villages kids rather than go to some other country.


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## amol48 (Mar 2, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> I will say this loud and clear. No matter how hard you try and how well you adapt to the environment there you will never be considered equal or feel equal. You might eventually convince yourself that hell I feel great. But the saying stands "Home is where the heart is."



That's what I am saying "Home is where the heart is" and my home would be there now not in India !! Moreover, what equality are you talking of in INDIA that too ! I am sorry to say but we are among MOST RACIST country in the world !! 



Charan said:


> I pay all my taxes here in India Only ..



This is not at ALL great done by you which makes you 'required' by INDIA. Being an indian citizen it is your responsibility and duty. Tell us something that you have did beyond your 'normal' duties and responsibilities !!


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## RCuber (Mar 2, 2008)

amol48 said:


> This is not at ALL great done by you which makes you 'required' by INDIA. Being an indian citizen it is your responsibility and duty. Tell us something that you have did beyond your 'normal' duties and responsibilities !!



let me know your then I will tell mine .


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## club_pranay (Mar 2, 2008)

Charan said:


> I pay all my taxes here in India Only ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
so u pay taxes, congrats! and thank you! but let me ask you one thing.. is it realy your choice to pay taxes?? LoL 

and  do you know the email you are using right now(esp hotmail), was developed by a NRI u dont feel about much??

i appreciate your choice of teaching village people, it's your choice. but you should NEVER QUESTION SOMEONE'S FAITH and EMOTIONS!!

first try to know what circumstances we are into, get a slight idea what happens when you have to make a choice between the two most important things in your life!!


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## FilledVoid (Mar 2, 2008)

> That's what I am saying "Home is where the heart is" and my home would be there now not in India !! Moreover, what equality are you talking of in INDIA that too ! I am sorry to say but we are among MOST RACIST country in the world !!



Most racist country? India? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Just by that remark I'm going to guess that you have NOT gone outside of your hometown or probably this country and lived by yourself. Out of curiosity may I ask you if you have any family here in India? Do you have brothers, sisters etc. If you are a person who has gone outside and been more than happy with where you are .... Then good for you. Enjoy your stay while it lasts. 




> NRI = Not Required for India?



Its rather a common pun used , although I must say that NRI's (Non Residents) usually get kind of irritated with it. If you grew up in Kerala they now call people NARI's (Im sure if you're from Kerala or know Malayalam you'll understand what it means) I usually just ignore it. 



> I pay all my taxes here in India Only ..



Taxes are deducted from wherever you work. Would you prefer that they took taxes both out of the person at the place they work and at India at the same time. 

If any of the rest is trying to justify the abbreviation it won't  . Many people make sacrifices for achievement of a better life for them , their family, their loved ones etc. Which is why as you can see its quite a touchy subject. I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended to be meant as the way club_pranay heard it . So Cheers  . Don't forget to join #Digit on IRC  !


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## RCuber (Mar 2, 2008)

You guys look really upset with my comments .. 
Why would I say such a comment?

Lots of my friends have complained about education here.. all want to go to US/UK and do their MS there. Two of my closest friends told me that they will come back and help by teaching what they have learnt here in colleges. result... both are happy drawing hefty salary there and enjoying their life there and completely forgot what they told me.. now what would I say?

Even more disgusting thing was when they complained/compared about the infrastructure and conditions here in india  

Why dont they fcuking say : "I want to make lots of money thats why im going there.."


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## vish786 (Mar 2, 2008)

Charan said:


> Why dont they fcuking say : "I want to make lots of money thats why im going there.."



so whats ur prob, its their life... they are to decide on their own... & face consequences whether its good or bad.

buddy you turned this into stupid angry ball thread !


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## FilledVoid (Mar 2, 2008)

> You guys look really upset with my comments ..
> Why would I say such a comment



Nah. As I said before people perceive posts over the Internet subjectively. 



> Lots of my friends have complained about education here.. all want to go to US/UK and do their MS there. Two of my closest friends told me that they will come back and help by teaching what they have learnt here in colleges. result... both are happy drawing hefty salary there and enjoying their life there and completely forgot what they told me.. now what would I say?



I've seen my share of friends go there waste their money and come back. If youre going to learn IT there and come back here to work then its an utter waste. The Indian IT industry barely revolves around foreign MS degrees.  But rather opon stuff like hands on experience. I think if theres an advantage you probably have over a candidate is better communication skills? Anyway this is just my view. With the increasing penetration of the Internet how hard is it to get a certain software? Most of them have their sample versions on Magazine cd /dvds in India. I would even go on and say that a person in India who goes the extra mile by trying to learn by himself would definitely have an advantage over any student fromo the US. Remeber Im only referring to the Software industry (other industry like the Automobile Industry , Hardware Industry etc may vary cause thats quite alot of equipment you need access to and you can't download them  ) . I know everyone is screaming bloody murder! Stone the person to death now  ! But thats my view. Let me ask you this. How many folks you know actually have the money to go to US and study? 

Im glad that you're friends are getting hefty salaries and are well off. Maybe they won't miss being in India at all. However I will vouch for this , in the above Poll . Im guessing that 75% of those who voted Yes probably havcen't gone outside to US/ UK etc and 75% of those who have voted No have probably worked there. 



> Even more disgusting thing was when they complained/compared about the infrastructure and conditions here in india



Considering that india has just gotten its Independence in 60+ years I say we are doing much MUCH better than those countries were doing after 60 years of their independence. The real question is ... After this much time USA is still where it is?   If we had better polticians I'd say to US , "You can kiss your rear Good Bye!".    



> Why dont they fcuking say : "I want to make lots of money thats why im going there.."



Isn't it obvious already? Your post clearly show that they're attracted to the hefty amounts of money they make .

PS: This is my humble opinion . Im not here to to convince anyone / everyone that US is where the Devil lives lol. I'm just giving out my experience that I had at the place. This is not meant to Alienate anyone on the forum either


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## Kiran.dks (Mar 2, 2008)

vish786 said:


> buddy you turned this into stupid angry ball thread !


And why not? After all he is following thread _as i_s by the section of the thread!


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## vish786 (Mar 2, 2008)

Kiran_tech_mania said:


> And why not? After all he is following thread _as i_s by the section of the thread!



oops my bad ! I failed to notice that.  

@charan, I take back meh words... good going their man  .... continue


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## shantanu (Mar 3, 2008)

chill guys... fight with dignity lol


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## amitava82 (Mar 3, 2008)

Ohhh Please, I lived 5 years of my life in one of the Southern Indian cities and another 6 years in one of the eastern Indian cities. Tell me more about Indians not being racist.


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## faraaz (Mar 3, 2008)

I've lived for 3 years in Australia (Bachelor's), 7 months in Switzerland (MBA) so far...and I've loved every day of it...but I would hate to live her permanently. Its just....urrrgh...I have to go back to India as soon as I graduate.


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## amol48 (Mar 3, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> Most racist country? India? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Just by that remark I'm going to guess that you have NOT gone outside of your hometown or probably this country and lived by yourself. Out of curiosity may I ask you if you have any family here in India? Do you have brothers, sisters etc. If you are a person who has gone outside and been more than happy with where you are .... Then good for you. Enjoy your stay while it lasts.



I am sorry to say but all what you said infact applies to you !! Not ME but YOU need to go out and see buddy !! I have lots of experience of being in different cities of India and hence from my experiences only I said, INDIA is too racist country. We sure are racists and we should accept this fact. 

Regarding your question, I AM STILL IN INDIA only. So of course I have my family and bros, sis in India ! But that of course doesn't stop me from accepting the fact that we indians are racist.


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## FilledVoid (Mar 3, 2008)

> I am sorry to say but all what you said infact applies to you !! Not ME but YOU need to go out and see buddy !!



Sure, I've always wanted to see more of the world than I have already. But if it cheers Ive lived in 4 different states for quite a while in India and been in 3 different countries. I'm not even go to use my Age Trump Card here (an Irc secret which most folks on IRC know). 



> We sure are racists and we should accept this fact.



This statement just purely irritates me. I've been try to my best way polite here and some teen assumes that I'm a racist. Say "you" not we. In no way do I judge a person by his location , ethnicity  etc. You don't even know me and you assume now that all Indians are racists. WTF ??? Its people like you that give Indians a bad name all over the freaking world. Hell , thinking that you know anything about racism makes you look stupid. 



> Regarding your question, I AM STILL IN INDIA only. So of course I have my family and bros, sis in India ! But that of course doesn't stop me from accepting the fact that we Indians are racist.



I asked this just to know if you would leave your family behind for an opportunity to go to US and stay there your entire life? I'm not even going to the racist part.



> Ohhh Please, I lived 5 years of my life in one of the Southern Indian cities and another 6 years in one of the eastern Indian cities. Tell me more about Indians not being racist.



I'm assuming you were responding to my line.



> Most racist country? India? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I never said it didn't exist I've been only trying to point out that it is way lesser here than there. If you would like to clarify more what I meant you can check with me on IRC . As for the rest of the thread I'm out of here.


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## mediator (Mar 3, 2008)

Charan said:


> You guys look really upset with my comments ..
> Why would I say such a comment?
> 
> Lots of my friends have complained about education here.. all want to go to US/UK and do their MS there. Two of my closest friends told me that they will come back and help by teaching what they have learnt here in colleges. result... both are happy drawing hefty salary there and enjoying their life there and completely forgot what they told me.. now what would I say?
> ...


Grass is always greener on the other side?



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> chill guys... fight with dignity lol


Ur mood changes with seasons! 



			
				amol said:
			
		

> I am sorry to say but all what you said infact applies to you !! Not ME but YOU need to go out and see buddy !! I have lots of experience of being in different cities of India and hence from my experiences only I said, INDIA is too racist country. We sure are racists and we should accept this fact.
> 
> Regarding your question, I AM STILL IN INDIA only. So of course I have my family and bros, sis in India ! But that of course doesn't stop me from accepting the fact that we indians are racist.


I agree, but a statement like "racism exists in INDIA too" wud be much much better than blatantly saying "INDIANS are racist"!! 

We r humans after all. People like to see whats common, "Religion,region,color,cast n creed,talents,operating systems, philosophies etc" , unite on the basis of that n like to protect their interests. If such differences didn't exist, then I guess we wud have treated the whole world as a family, instead of prioritising people like family first, friends second, neighbours third, apple/vista fourth etc. So I guess its not a question if racism exists in INDIA too, but if its relatively higher? But with so much differences I still see INDIA intact and going stronger where civilians forget their differences n unite when they witness harm being done to the nation by external sources,politicians n people like andrew symonds.


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## amol48 (Mar 3, 2008)

mediator said:


> I agree, but a statement like "racism exists in INDIA too" wud be much much better than blatantly saying "INDIANS are racist"!!



ok I agree with you. I should have said that way though not mine way. Sorry for that.. 



exx_2000 said:


> This statement just purely irritates me. I've been try to my best way polite here and some teen assumes that I'm a racist. Say "you" not we. In no way do I judge a person by his location , ethnicity  etc. You don't even know me and you assume now that all Indians are racists. WTF ??? Its people like you that give Indians a bad name all over the freaking world. Hell , thinking that you know anything about racism makes you look stupid.



Well same applies with me !! Even I get irritated when people like YOU doesn't accept this fact that racisim is there in India and sure NOT so less as you say. And by 'us' it means in general of course. You should have understood this. Just like you said you don't support racisim even I don;t and hate it. Hence I pointed out that. 'Us' represents people of India. Not you and me in person as you had thought and commented !! This itself proves your attitude towards india !! 




			
				exx_2000 said:
			
		

> I never said it didn't exist I've been only trying to point out that it is way lesser here than there. If you would like to clarify more what I meant you can check with me on IRC . As for the rest of the thread I'm out of here.



Since you are out, I assume you won't reply now


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## praka123 (Mar 3, 2008)

can u explain what kind of racism exist in India ?


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## mediator (Mar 3, 2008)

All kinds of! Apartheid, southies hating northies, cast system prominently in south india etc.


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## drgrudge (Mar 3, 2008)

praka123 said:


> can u explain what kind of racism exist in India ?


Is this some kind of joke? See any matrimonial ads in paper or websites. "Good looking brides wanted", "Fair and handsome boy wanted". We live in a soft racist country. 

Another kind is the racism of the north east Indians in other parts of the country.


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## praka123 (Mar 3, 2008)

LOL! overwhelmed by responses


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## FilledVoid (Mar 3, 2008)

> Since you are out, I assume you won't reply now


I always answers quotes made towards me. No matter how stupid they are. 



> Well same applies with me !! Even I get irritated when people like YOU doesn't accept this fact that racisim is there in India and sure NOT so less as you say



Show me where I say it does not exist.... Let me quote what I said for you to understand. Here are my quotes 



> Racism can be seen in India too.
> 
> True. But not ot the extent of as much as I have seen in US. Personally I've never faced rascism at my worlplace. I guess I worked with more nice people. However outside of the workplace its a different story. After WTC ever try driving alone on the NJ TurnPike? Might be a bit of an exxaggeration. But still I have had experiences which would prove otherwise. Were any of you there when the WTC incident occured? How about a month later? However I don't blame them ... that was the most atrocious piece of terrorism I've personally seen.



Here is one of your sentences.



> I am sorry to say but we are among MOST RACIST country in the world !!



To which I have responded as below



> Most racist country? India? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Just by that remark I'm going to guess that you have NOT gone outside of your hometown or probably this country and lived by yourself.



The only thing I say in there is that India is NOT the most racist country you could be in. Would you like me to explain this any more clearer than I already have? 



> Hence I pointed out that. 'Us' represents people of India. Not you and me in person as you had thought and commented !! This itself proves your attitude towards india !



Where in the world do you think I'm from? What makes you think that I'm not from India??? Are you somehow implying that not you and me but the majority of the general public in India are racists? Again, considering that you assume that you understand my attitude towards India makes you look plain silly. I'm an ex-NRI who prefers staying in India and not going back.



> Another kind is the racism of the north east Indians in other parts of the country.



Yes, I have found quite a few of instances where this is the case. But would you call the general public a huge consolidated group of racists?


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## sam9s (Mar 3, 2008)

mmm Interesting thread atleast for people living abroad or people like me who have applied for Immigartion..................yes I have applied for immigartion to canada (the long proper authentic way). Its been a year now and should atleast take another 2 to get the visa.

Its kida interesting to read different experiences.

Starting with sumit some very good points brought here. 



			
				esumitkumar said:
			
		

> + onsite :
> 
> 1. better salary
> 2. better wrkg culture (very less politics ..if ur on client side)
> ...



Definately better salary and infra. Plus my major reason for applying for migration was abolutely poor govt infra......Man a person like me who is absolute dumb (and loose tempered for that matter) in dealing with so called "sakari babus" have a HARD HARD time in getting things done. I have n number of examples, where I had a tormenting time getting my......lisence made......getting my Marriage cerificate made....getting my passport made.........getting the gas connection....... getting my bachlore degree from the univ......getting ...............aaahhh ...the list goes on n on n on n on .................dont even start me on what I had to do to get my own house registered and not to forget getting my own Provident fund
.......I am PISSED seriously
Second point abolutely true about office politics....man...... as if sarkari politics was not enough.....you have your own company politics to deal with...........have to lure your boss, boss's boss and if possible boss's boss's boss to get you noticed and to get whatever you already deserve.(this not only applies to hiks or apprasials but to every damm f**king thing you wanna do to grow in what ever profession you are.)......pathetic 



			
				club_pranay said:
			
		

> i think it's all about what an individual think or believe.
> 1. to say staying in america is not social, well i dont think so.. these people work hard during the week, and enjoy as much during the weekends. TO HAVING A SOCIAL CIRCLE IS OUR CHOICE!! i have very good thai friends, loads of american locals! there is a mental barrier we make around ourselfs that these people are different, we keep telling ourselfs that "i dont belong here". thats what makes things difficult



Good point..........I think its more to do with how well you accept the fact that the "abroad" thing could be no different from the one you left (give and take few exceptione ) if you know how to deal with your innate fear of being neglected and ignored. As you said its a mantel barrier which most of the people build around themselves and have no idea of how to deal with it. An example is the the post by "nix".................



> indians should stick to their own country. its better to be here rather than losing out on family life, social function et all.. you will really miss al this when you go there. + you can never feel comfortable there as you know that you dont belong to that place. the ppl always see you as talking away their jobs.. i will stay here.



Very premature thoughts, a person has to workout on his psychology to deal with the social solitary condition.

*About India being Racist*, well it depends on what your defination of racisism is...................depreaving someone of his rights/rightfull needs due any reason..... be it cast/creed/religion or more importantly social or financial status...............taking advantage of a common man's helplessness, using the power of position to discriminate.............molding the system (be it law, law enforcement, or common administration) according to your own self needs....etc etc.................is all very much intrinsic to the indian administrative system, and we people have become so much dependent on it, we invariably support it sometimes. ......................SO if all this according to you people out there is Racisim.....I'd say India is the biggest Racist country......itleast in the current present scenario..............


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## FilledVoid (Mar 3, 2008)

> .yes I have applied for immigartion to canada (the long proper authentic way).



Canada is a beautiful place


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## faraaz (Mar 3, 2008)

In my experience, like it or not...everyone is racist. It just varies how much they show it. The racism in India is blatant and very visible. Racism here in Switzerland is very myopic and xenophobic. In Australia, its just Islamic FUD and traditional Aborigine hate. Can't talk about the US cuz I've never been there.

But one thing about the Europeans, they hate everyone equally!  Unlike in Australia...:/


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## praka123 (Mar 3, 2008)

@faraaz:Australians and Newzealander's hate maori's?


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## vish786 (Mar 3, 2008)

praka123 said:
			
		

> can u explain what kind of racism exist in India ?


well I have noticed this many times ppl often say this, each one scolding the other " THESE NORTHIES.... blah blah ", " THESE SOUTHIES.... blah blah "

if this continues sooner or later another pakistan gonna emerge, & dunno which one that would be.... cant ppl stop saying so when the mistake is just oriented to a SINGLE PERSON and not to a COMMUNITY/other major part of country.


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## amol48 (Mar 4, 2008)

I guess the polls of this thread indicate that people who like to go abroad outcome by much more than people who like to live in India..



> Yes - 19
> No - 13
> Not applicable/no comments - 8


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## faraaz (Mar 4, 2008)

praka123 said:


> @faraaz:Australians and Newzealander's hate maori's?



New Zealand ... kinda...they are not hated as such, but regarded as a lower class...and treated as such. But not openly, of course.


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## amol48 (Mar 4, 2008)

faraaz said:


> But one thing about the Europeans, they hate everyone equally!  Unlike in Australia...:/



What an equality in hating too  .. gotta learn from these guys !!


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## abhijit_reddevil (Mar 8, 2008)

Even after this, people will go abroad and stay there. This person hasn't met his mother for the last 8 yrs, even if he wanted to in this time of emergency. I do not know what joy they get staying 20000 miles away from home.

*timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_dumps_paralysed_engineer_in_Delhi/articleshow/2846532.cms


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## FilledVoid (Mar 8, 2008)

> Even after this, people will go abroad and stay there. This person hasn't met his mother for the last 8 yrs, even if he wanted to in this time of emergency. I do not know what joy they get staying 20000 miles away from home



Yeah that is just sad . May I offer a piece of advice. Always keep 7-10 work days for emergencies and rainy days.


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## club_pranay (Mar 8, 2008)

digitized said:


> Even after this, people will go abroad and stay there. This person hasn't met his mother for the last 8 yrs, even if he wanted to in this time of emergency. I do not know what joy they get staying 20000 miles away from home.
> 
> *timesofindia.indiatimes.com/US_dumps_paralysed_engineer_in_Delhi/articleshow/2846532.cms


 

well, going through this forum, i say...

1. For most of the ppl who stay in some other country, staying abroad IS NO FUN!

2. But most of the people who are at their comfortable home, think it is!! they think ppl who go and stay as an nri, are greedy sob's. they think we just love to see our family and home 20000miles away! they live in this constant misconception that we go just for our sake. When in reality, it is not!! We dont spend our weekends at casino!! we work our @$$ off to sent a ticket back home or buy a laptop for our sisters!! and yes we do celebrate 15 aug and 26 jan, and when we do it when no one else care or give a damn to it!!!!!

3. Everyone has their own circumstances, the question of "is it worth it" is mostly YES for the one who has taken such a big decision to leave his home. and ALWAYS NO for people who are happy with their lives.

4. these people who dont respect someone's tough decisions, would never understand the reason behind our decision

5. It is not my fault if i can buy a second hand Audi($10000) after doing a part time job for just one year!!!!


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## praka123 (Mar 8, 2008)

how about Indians(say,a couple) working in US or any other good opportunity available countries(esp west),work there for a couple of yrs,get the money as much as u can make(I meant for s/w engineers) ,return back to India after they have kids and live here in India happy securing job in India 

ofcourse overseas obvious for scale of pay


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## legolas (Mar 8, 2008)

I have not gone exactly thro' all the posts. but, IMO as dumb it might sound, its a personal choice. Some people are extremely flexible and outright and social to have a very smooth transition and immerse themselves into the western cultures without having any difficulty in switching between traditions or what not. 
Some of them find this difficult and go through a period of isolation or depression. Its hard truth that people just cant change. It would be difficult for those people and would have to live with it/alter their choices.


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## Aberforth (Mar 11, 2008)

For the Original Poster (OP), there is no specific yes/no answer to this question. It boils down to an individual, really. 

I lived for 6 months in Switzerland and France as a consultant for a project, and it wasn't as bleak as your case was. Europe has a real strong transport and communication infrastructure which negated the conveyance problem that you had. I didn't buy a car during my entire stay not because I couldn't afford it, but because I didn't need to. Life is very expensive there yes, but so is the income. In overall, lifestyle there is several times better than it is back in India.

Social life largely depends on you. If you tend to be  subconciously xenophobic (like a lot of Indian expats in non-diplomatic fields tend to be), then I guess you'd feel lonely. I for one, never had an issue with loneliness primarily because I could mingle well with the locals during the course of my stay and I met a wonderful French girl in Lyon who is the best thing that happened to me in my life. 

If I have a choice, I'd live in Europe anytime. I'd much rather have my future children a good and secure future rather than the beaten and excessively competitive India where for every field, you are competiting with millions and the payback in the end of the effort isn't 1/20th as good as that of Europe. I'd be able to visit my home as often as I do now, Europe isn't that far off or expensive to travel anyway, if compared to the incomes.


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## faraaz (Mar 11, 2008)

^ - +1 ... Europe is fun. But be warned, if you are staying in a non metropolitan city (as in, NOT Paris, Zurich, Geneva etc) then you kind of have to know the local language. Atleast enough to have basic conversational skills if not fluency...otherwise basic tasks become very hard.

Otherwise yes, Europe is a very fun place... >.>

@Aberforth: Sprechen sie Deutsch etwas? Weil du hat fuer sechs monaten leben in der Schweiz!


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## esumitkumar (Mar 11, 2008)

> I'd much rather have my future children a good and secure future rather than the beaten and excessively competitive India


gud point raised ..but let me tell u my frnd the stark realities :

1. children in europe/US have the right to call the police and get arrested anyone frm home even if u r just slapping ur child ! imagine this  police arresting u when u have just slapped ur own child for a minute mistake 

2. we all ppl are born n brought in indian culture..so we expect our children to respect parents just as we ppl respect our parents...but culture in west is totally pathetic ...what wud u do if u have to ask ur 4 yr kid permission to enter his room ????

3. we all know s*x is not a big thing in west..u all have heard news of US teenage gals getting pregnant in 6th class etc etc ...just imagine what env ur kids will be growing ? will not they imbibing the same values ?

4. my landlord who has a son settled in oz ..was telling that his son's neighbour thr.. are a lonely couple ..no son/daughter takes care of them ..they just come on father/mother's day and give them a present,wish them and go..wat a lonely life they r facing  ..wud u like dis too when u will be old ?

i agree all these prblms are in india too but in a very less scale as compared to west ...

the basic thing is that we indians have a tendency that we want all the money,facilties,infra etc etc but we also want moral values, parents n relative circle etc 

but only one thing is possible ..either go to US/europe ,run behind money,leave evrything here OR

earn here less , crib abt infra but be satisfied that at least u r with ur parents,ur family,ur circle , ur society ... 

the basic thing is that ....BE SATISFIED whr u R ..or if not ..try to CHANGE !


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## Aberforth (Mar 11, 2008)

faraaz said:


> ^ - +1 ... Europe is fun. But be warned, if you are staying in a non metropolitan city (as in, NOT Paris, Zurich, Geneva etc) then you kind of have to know the local language. Atleast enough to have basic conversational skills if not fluency...otherwise basic tasks become very hard.


Yes, I think is the primary reasons why Indians choose Anglophone countries like  US, UK, Australia and Canada over much better and comfortable countries of Europe, like France. 

This is also which is why they always tend to compare India with United States, a faulty comparison considering United States is still an 'adolescent' of a country in terms of social and cultural systems. Europe is more closer to India and shares more witn Indian history and cultural values than United States.

I had no problems however, I lived the first two months in Samedan at Switzerland, which is smaller than the colony in my Goan hometown. French is widely understood and spoken apart from the local language, Romansh. Taking French in my high school helped here, with a little real world experience I got pretty good at it. I didn't stay full six months in Suisse, the last four months were is Lyon at France, which can be considered the most Swiss communes of France.



faraaz said:


> Otherwise yes, Europe is a very fun place... >.>


I agree. I would pick France anytime over United States, primarily because the French, although intensely nationalist, are much more open to other countries, people and culture. Very rarely one would come across a racially and nationally stuck up French as one would do in the States where informal racism is pretty much the norm even today.



faraaz said:


> @Aberforth: Sprechen sie Deutsch etwas? Weil du hat fuer sechs monaten leben in der Schweiz!


Thats German I believe. Unfortunately, my German is pretty much market quality, I didn't get to come across it as much as I did French.


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## praka123 (Mar 11, 2008)

^when Bombay,Delhi,Banglore soon will be fully westernized(already) by this younger generation,what do u find different in Europe?Indians will ditch their 
"Matha Pitha Gurur Daivam" and follow western materialistic culture soon.


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## legolas (Mar 11, 2008)

^ ^ very true.

but we are, you know, the so called generations who are experiencing the transition and therefore find it difficult to digest or grab the concept and live with it. Our future generations would have an answer I guess. We are confused in seeking amidst the different possibilities.
but what you told is very true.


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## ray|raven (Mar 11, 2008)

esumitkumar said:


> the basic thing is that ....BE SATISFIED whr u R ..or if not ..try to CHANGE !



IMO, thats what matters at the end of the day.
Satisfaction. Without it , how much you have, how good the place you live in, 
Doesnt really matter.


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## Aberforth (Mar 11, 2008)

praka123 said:


> ^when Bombay,Delhi,Banglore soon will be fully westernized(already) by this younger generation,what do u find different in Europe?


Being 'wseternised' is much more than wearing 'western clothes', going to parties, drinking alcohol and eating out at McDonalds. Delhi and Mumbai can be really 'western' only when they have the law and order, judicial system, low crime, effcient infrastructure, 24/7 water and electricity, rich cultural blend and the lifestyle of even a mid-size European city like Lyon,  Milan or Athens. Anyone with an IQ of more than 100 is well aware that this isn't happening for at least the next 30 years.

I wouldn't want my children to be like the Delhi kids of today, honestly. Neither like Americans for that matter. There isn't much difference between the two, except that Delhites look up to and apes United States superficially.



praka123 said:


> Indians will ditch their  "Matha Pitha Gurur Daivam" and follow western materialistic culture soon.


Thats a brilliant opinion you have of 'the west', as good as Americans who think Indians drink cow's urine when they fall ill, wear turbans to work and "most Indian Hindus are Muslims". Mistaking Europe for United States is as good as mistaking Iran for India. Both are 'east' so they must be same eh? 

In today's India, parents and teachers are far more greedy than Europeans. Indian parents compete their kids with those of others, just for 'social status' ignoring the reality that their child might have different temperament than those of other kids. India is among the few countries in the world where children kill themselves because they can't meet their parent's sky high expectations and academic pressure. Similar is with teachers. They are more concerned about school ratings/ popularity as a good tutor rather than teaching children effectively in schools and colleges. Why is it that our educational quality is so low compared to Europe? Why do you think that we have a literacy rate that competes with mid-size African countries? European children have more to respect their teachers and parents for, compared to Indian parents.

Thats a generalisation, of course there are exceptions where we have honest and good parents and teachers in India. But they are exceptions, few and far between.


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## faraaz (Mar 12, 2008)

Aberforth said:


> Thats a brilliant opinion you have of 'the west', as good as Americans who think Indians drink cow's urine when they fall ill, wear turbans to work and "most Indian Hindus are Muslims". Mistaking Europe for United States is as good as mistaking Iran for India. Both are 'east' so they must be same eh?
> 
> In today's India, parents and teachers are far more greedy than Europeans. Indian parents compete their kids with those of others, just for 'social status' ignoring the reality that their child might have different temperament than those of other kids. India is among the few countries in the world where children kill themselves because they can't meet their parent's sky high expectations and academic pressure. Similar is with teachers. They are more concerned about school ratings/ popularity as a good tutor rather than teaching children effectively in schools and colleges. Why is it that our educational quality is so low compared to Europe? Why do you think that we have a literacy rate that competes with mid-size African countries? European children have more to respect their teachers and parents for, compared to Indian parents.



This post auto-wins this thread!


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## sam9s (Mar 12, 2008)

Aberforth said:


> Delhi and Mumbai can be really 'western' only when they have the law and order, judicial system, low crime, effcient infrastructure, 24/7 water and electricity, rich cultural blend and the lifestyle of even a mid-size European city like Lyon,  Milan or Athens. Anyone with an IQ of more than 100 is well aware that this isn't happening for at least the next 30 years.



Alas! somebody can portray actual problem here rather than lame accusations. This is exactly what I ment when I posted couple of pages back. Quoting it again for "Aberforth"........unfortunately nobody replied.



sam9s said:


> Plus my major reason for applying for migration to canada was abolutely poor govt infra......Man a person like me who is absolute dumb (and loose tempered for that matter) in dealing with so called "sakari babus" have a HARD HARD time in getting things done. I have n number of examples, where I had a tormenting time getting my......lisence made......getting my Marriage cerificate made....getting my passport made.........getting the gas connection....... getting my bachlore degree from the univ......getting ...............aaahhh ...the list goes on n on n on n on .................dont even start me on what I had to do to get my own house registered and not to forget getting my own Provident fund
> .......I am PISSED seriously
> 
> *About India being Racist*, well it depends on what your defination of racisism is...................depreaving someone of his rights/rightfull needs due any reason..... be it cast/creed/religion or more importantly social or financial status...............taking advantage of a common man's helplessness, using the power of position to discriminate.............molding the system (be it law, law enforcement, or common administration) according to your own self needs....etc etc.................is all very much intrinsic to the indian administrative system, and we people have become so much dependent on it, we invariably support it sometimes. ......................SO if all this according to you people out there is Racisim.....I'd say India is the biggest Racist country......itleast in the current present scenario..............





Aberforth said:


> I wouldn't want my children to be like the Delhi kids of today, honestly. Neither like Americans for that matter. There isn't much difference between the two, except that Delhites look up to and apes United States superficially.



You said it pal, though its quite difficult to actually stop the cultural/socitical/environmental factors of the native place (east or west) be subjected to your child's upbringing. What I would actually want is my child to grow in a peacefull, non corrupt, civilized society, even if I have to sacrifice my social life or accept few western american anomalies in my child.



rayraven said:


> IMO, thats what matters at the end of the day.
> Satisfaction. Without it , how much you have, how good the place you live in,
> Doesnt really matter.



Being insatiable is basic human nature......but if that "*CAN*" be reached......I fully agree with both of you...........


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## Aberforth (Mar 12, 2008)

faraaz said:


> This post auto-wins this thread!


Thank you very much. Maybe you should consider voting for me as your next PM. Although I doubt it would help, there are too many problems in India, like complacency in policies that can't be solved by 'clean politics' alone. 



sam9s said:


> Alas! somebody can portray actual problem here rather than lame accusations. This is exactly what I ment when I posted couple of pages back. Quoting it again for "Aberforth"........unfortunately nobody replied.


Thank you very much for the compliment. 

A lot of us Indians don't tend to heed these because they haven't really been able to experience first hand what an efficient infrastructure and civilised society means. We have learn to accept dowry killings, police harassment, VIP culture, nepotism, bribery, social double standards, crumbling infrastructure and lack of justice as a normal pheomenon. An Indian today is happy with a 256 or 512 kbps 'unlimited' connection when such a service would be an outrageous scandal even in the poorest European country. We are happy that "Windows XP" and "Windows Vista" have no interface for any Indian languages, which if happened in Europe would have meants a huge 'anti-trust' or similar fine on Microsoft. When we buy a car, we have to pay twice as much as Europeans despite an income that is 1/20th of Europeans. Same applies for petrol and other lifestyle goods.

That is where "NRI Nationalism" comes in. They experience life in a first world country,which makes them understand what an ocean India needs to cross to pick up to their level. Unfortunately a lot of superficial Indians believe that being sexually promiscous, wearing western clothes, shopping in malls, flashing their accessories, faking a 'duty free' accent and watching Hollywood movies makes them more 'westernised'.


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## sam9s (Mar 19, 2008)

^^Hey Aberforth, you did not comment on my quoted comment..... . Thought to have your opinion on what I said as well.


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## techx (Apr 29, 2008)

If  want to know what real life go abroad.
When I came here I learned life is not we see in dreams . It is mch much harder.  will really come to know the value of our country and our family
It is better to be home


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## abhijit_reddevil (May 6, 2008)

^^^Where did you go?


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## sam9s (May 7, 2008)

techx said:


> If  want to know what real life go abroad.
> When I came here I learned life is not we see in dreams . It is mch much harder.  will really come to know the value of our country and our family
> It is better to be home



That sounds to be a too naive a statement, bit immature as well. Where did u go, what was the purpose, and if its ok may I ask you how old are you........


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## Deep (May 16, 2008)

I think it is pretty much worth the trouble but again it all depends upon the goals of your life. I would like to give an example of one of my cousins who currently well settled in US..

He left India around 6-7 years back, he started off with going by cycle and train / buses to his office, was living in a rented house... gradually, he started growing, saved the money.. bought a decent car.. called his parents for the first time.. 

The time moved on.. he bought a house in India (for investment purpose mainly), called his parents again for a long trip, enjoyed with them.. time moved on.. he bought his own house... (some row house) and again his parents are going to visit him next month.. 

So the point of this example is, you have to work lot more harder and be lot more patience, if you are working hard, you shall get the fruits.. 

And this applies to anyone and any place, be it outside India or within India..


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## legolas (May 17, 2008)

Purely personal choice.


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## Dipen01 (May 17, 2008)

> Satisfaction. Without it , how much you have, how good the place you live in,
> Doesnt really matter.



Thats it...!! That sums up everything..

Well i havent read whole thread... Only went through Deep & Aberforths post... But satisfaction is all that counts..

I come from a rural background. The population of my hometown (if it can be called) is 80k and we dont even have a decent English School..Forget colleges. 

I have been in Pune since last 5-6 yrs. But i still wish i was with my family.. Because for me in the end thats the only thing which counts..


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## sam9s (May 17, 2008)

Deep said:


> So the point of this example is, you have to work lot more harder and be lot more patience, if you are working hard, you shall get the fruits..



Very True to the last drop........but I might not agree with your next statement



> And this applies to anyone and any place, be it outside India or within India..



In india LOTS I mean LOTS of other factors and wierd ones too comes in to play when you are in to corporate world trying to climb the ladder........


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## Deep (May 17, 2008)

sam9s said:


> In india LOTS I mean LOTS of other factors and wierd ones too comes in to play when you are in to corporate world trying to climb the ladder........



Oh yes, that comes with the package of hard work.. smartness should be added with the hard work.. I have experienced this personally, many big corporate houses tried to chew me by not paying the balance amount for the project, just because their show flopped but If things are handled in a smarter way then I guess those kind of people can be tackled easily. I think getting more deep into this would take us away from this topic, may be I will throw more light on it if there is any business / employment related topic around


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## dreamcatcher (May 17, 2008)

let me add to the list a bit..

i have a few family members and friends(well, dad's frnds..cant be mine tho) who live in the US..

my uncle is the vice-president of progenics pharmaceuticals wile my aunt is a general manager of a reputed bank..my cousin is working in intel as a technical advisor while his wife is at the same corporation doing R&d.Another cousin of mine is the product manager of texas instruments and his wife runs a courier franchisee..another cousin..not married..working at NASA..so u ca guess how widespread my whole network is..

As a matter of fact..i asked each of them and have come to my own conclusions...

1)they wont promote you after a certain post if you are an indian..but will make sure u work the hardest..harder than an american 5 paces below ur job..if needed, u are asked to comeright back from ur vacation and report to an assignment there...u will however be paid to do so...working hours are very tight..and weekends are mainly spent working up the whole house..

2)if u have a child thats a greater problem..u cant take proper attention of him/her and thereby u sent him to a child program centre. where they interact with students of their own age and thereby dont give a damn t their mother tongue..they are brought up in the american ways..how hard their parents try to teach them some indian culture..

3)family relations detoriate living there..coz most of them are busy with their own work and hardly have time fore their family down here...as a result..misunderstandings are a matter of the day..


4)life becomes too money centric..u have frnds if u have money..else u dont..the more u spend the more frnds u have...


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## Deep (May 17, 2008)

I don't knowbut the life of my cousin is pretty much cool out there, he works for SAP and is happy with the stuff, enjoys the weekend royally, no problems with the job too..


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## sam9s (May 18, 2008)

Deep said:


> Oh yes, that comes with the package of hard work.. smartness should be added with the hard work.. I have experienced this personally, many big corporate houses tried to chew me by not paying the balance amount for the project, just because their show flopped but If things are handled in a smarter way then I guess those kind of people can be tackled easily. I think getting more deep into this would take us away from this topic, may be I will throw more light on it if there is any business / employment related topic around




mmmm so according to you a person who is hardworking but may be not that smart, or shrewed (or does not know how to tackle "Those" guys)....if I may put it that way....... does not have the right to the so called "fruit" u are talking about...??



amd64_man2005 said:


> let me add to the list a bit..
> 
> i have a few family members and friends(well, dad's frnds..cant be mine tho) who live in the US..
> 
> ...



mmmm I will put it in my way as well

.........my friend,, neither is a president of a big company nor is his wife any manager....he works as an accounts operator (usually in Tally) in a decent deprtmental store, his wife usually works as a baby sitter...........picture not that very royal right....

Earnings are enough to have a decent house in a peacefull place in Torronto canada, has a car with no tension of gasoline price. Gets a good vacation when the store closes down in winters.......(is never asked to come back on any emergency during vacations), working hrs are are cool typical morning to evening.......weekend are spent out doing all sports activities like bungy jumping ect, hangs out in pubs/discs occationaly, visits other indian/canadian friends, and finally have a movie with his family before the sleep on his 42" plama TV and a 5.1 HT.    

His child education is free as for now till she graduates so no worries here..........the only other language she knows apart from English is Punjabi.......and I dont really know how her parents made her learn punjabi dispite of the fact she is been living in canada since she was 2 years old I guess (So even if the school gives damm about your country and mother tongue, your own self upbringing can make a difference)

Now coming to my situation....... My job is a much high profile job than his......My earning are almost double than his, and my benifits are in no comparision than his............. still I have a heart attack every time when ever I think about the time when I have to admit my child in a good school ( Donations, fees, heavy schedule, etc ...some points to begin with)

I have a car, but hardly drive it, coz of rocket gas expense, tormenting congestion on roads and coz its delhi I've got to bring parking havoc in to the picture as well.....

Every week end usually goes in office planning how am I suppose to lure my boss to get this new challange and what tacticks I have to deploy this time to get my work noticed.........
At the most on a sunday evening we go out on our bike to the nearest mall......................I cant even think of doing somethin like bungy jumping in my entire life.............cant afford a 42" plasma what ever I do, (though I do have a small HT) and after all this...... there is hardly any time left for pubs and discs....................

All this makes me ask myself just one question, *"How is my so called "white-collar" high paid job any better than his low profile "blue-collar" low paid one*, when every thing pertaining to contentment is under his belt and I run around in circles every day just to make me and my family's tomorrow secure.......... And I know I would soon realise that I have completely lost the satisfaction, contentment of today in making the tommorrow secure. I will be 60 then...............


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## Deep (May 18, 2008)

sam9s said:


> mmmm so according to you a person who is hardworking but may be not that smart, or shrewed (or does not know how to tackle "Those" guys)....if I may put it that way....... does not have the right to the so called "fruit" u are talking about...??



I seriously have no idea why people draw conclusions by assuming the stuff from the statements..

Let me make the stuff crystal clear then...

I am not sure if you have idea or not but this so called corporate world is full of politics, be it India or be it out of India (though it might not be so bad out there), people will try to take advantage of the person who just keeps on doing the work all the time, I have seen many of the known people getting affected because of this. There will be a group of people waiting for the oppertunity to exploit the employees, give them loads of work, make them work in the weekends, nights etc.. but if the person is aware about the things and smart enough then he can tackle these problems by some or other ways.

But if he is not aware about these issues, then it might be difficult for him to stay longer as this load will be never ending.

Now by this I DO NOT MEAN THAT YOU CANNOT STAY THERE IF YOU ARE NOT SMART BUT WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS, A PERSON SHOULD BE AWARE ABOUT THESE KIND OF THINGS WHICH DO HAPPEN IN CORPORATE WORLD (which comes under your "LOTS of other factors")

I hope now everything is clear? 

// Sorry guys for the caps, I never expected my simple english is so much complicated that I have to re-explain the same stuff to few people.. (so that they dont misunderstand it) haha


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## sam9s (May 18, 2008)

Deep said:


> I seriously have no idea why people draw conclusions by assuming the stuff from the statements..



Whats there to assume , you yourself said that smartness needs to be added along with hardwork to get he fruit...............so it obviously means if smartness is not there hardwork alone would not bear the fruit...............if thats what you mean atleast have the balls to stick to it. 



> tackle these problems by some or other ways.



That "some or the other ways" is the whole point which is what is more prevalent here in India, and my "Lots of other factors" is YOUR SAME "Some or the other ways"...buddy............got the point......


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## Deep (May 18, 2008)

sam9s said:


> Whats there to assume , you yourself said that smartness needs to be added along with hardwork to get he fruit...............so it obviously means if smartness is not there hardwork alone would not bear the fruit...............if thats what you mean atleast have the balls to stick to it.



Kid? I seriously did not expect this argument go till this point.. I really do not understand why you are making such a small thing big issue? Infact it is not at all relevent to this topic.. I mean, dude, grow up yaar, why are you behaving and arguing like a kid? Don't you understand what I meant? Whats the point in getting into personal war on baseless argument? talking about balls.. Just grow up and talk sensibly and then dare to get into any argument. I am open to healthy discussions but not to childish personal arguments like this..

I am framing the sentense again if you still havent got it..

You need hardwork + smartness to suceed, only hardwork doesnt help, only hardwork can give the results but it all depends upon the situation and the work environment.. and it certainly doen't meant that if you are not smart enough you will be kicked off, it is just that you need to learn from the experiences and grow.. life is a growing process..

I guess, any 10 year old kid would be able to understand the meaning of this. So if you are smart enough then for god's sake don't argue on baseless stuff and dont draw this topic to an offtopic.

Grow up..


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## sam9s (May 18, 2008)

Deep said:


> Kid? I seriously did not expect this argument go till this point.. I really do not understand why you are making such a small thing big issue? Infact it is not at all relevent to this topic.. I mean, dude, grow up yaar, why are you behaving and arguing like a kid? Don't you understand what I meant? Whats the point in getting into personal war on baseless argument? talking about balls.. Just grow up and talk sensibly and then dare to get into any argument. I am open to healthy discussions but not to childish personal arguments like this..
> 
> I am framing the sentense again if you still havent got it..
> 
> ...



ok cutting the long story short, I feel Indian corporate environment is too political and corrupt for a lets say less manuplative person to survive without getting bonkers. I understand, u gotta learn the way to deal with it, but here...... this becomes a mandatory requsit for success, either you have it inherently or learn it by hook or by crook. If for any reason you are not able to master the art or your destiny put you in the middle of high guns you are screwed. 

I am not saying abroad its all horky dorky, but still far better than whats in here.
People are still true to the fundamental sence of reponsibility and geniuness, and they definately know the true meaning of being professional.

I hope now I was able to put my point in a not so kiddish and better manner..........no intentions were there to be personal........cheers n Peace.


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## mediator (May 18, 2008)

Deep said:


> I think it is pretty much worth the trouble but again it all depends upon the goals of your life. I would like to give an example of one of my cousins who currently well settled in US..
> 
> He left India around 6-7 years back, he started off with going by cycle and train / buses to his office, was living in a rented house... gradually, he started growing, saved the money.. bought a decent car.. called his parents for the first time..
> 
> ...


I agree, its like a chess game where u have to play accordingly with ur senses on every single development. N for freshers, once u get the experience its easy to hop then. Well thats the similarity between gals and corporates I guess.


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## monikagupta101 (Jun 10, 2008)

yes it could work


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## Aberforth (Jul 4, 2008)

sam9s said:


> ^^Hey Aberforth, you did not comment on my quoted comment..... . Thought to have your opinion on what I said as well.


Well you made your point pretty good, so I had nothing more to add. My apologies for the omission. 



Deep said:


> So the point of this example is, you have to work lot more harder and be lot more patience, if you are working hard, you shall get the fruits..
> 
> And this applies to anyone and any place, be it outside India or within India..


I agree that a person who has the potential to shine will do so, whether in India or any other country. However, in my personal experience it takes a lot more work to achieve something in India as compared to Europe or United States.


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## sam9s (Jul 4, 2008)

Aberforth said:


> . However, in my personal experience it takes a lot more work to achieve something in India as compared to Europe or United States.



I wonder when you say "lot more work" are we both at the same page in understanding the Indian corporate world.......


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## Aberforth (Jul 4, 2008)

sam9s said:


> I wonder when you say "lot more work" are we both at the same page in understanding the Indian corporate world.......


Well its not only the corporate world but also the day to day life that is a rough grind for Indians. If Indians didn't have a strong family structures, most of them would have burned out like the Soviets. The income is far less than in western countries for the same effort and qualification, yet the prices of goods ad services in India is far more expensive than in Europe. Except maybe train fares and mobile calls; the European trains are worth the money though.


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## swordfish (Jul 6, 2008)

Man, I agree with the point that its boring life as you dont have much friends here and your parents miss you very much in India.. 
I am  onsite since one year.. I am not much social person so I dont feel lonelyness but I can understand that many people misses me in India.. 

positive point here is you get good salary and bit higher life standard easily. Basic necesity of life are very well understood here.. Also you got to know new cultures.. 

But i strongly believe that you should not settle here.. India is the Best.. And If you get 12 lakhs per year in India then why should you be outside India away from your loved ones..

Again it depends on person to person..


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