# Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program



## trigger (Feb 26, 2007)

Remember the Windows error reporting screen?  Apparently, it’s success has prompted Microsoft to adopt a whole new quality management program designed to allow its Windows programmers to share users’ pains. Hence the “We Share Your Pain”   or WSYP program. 

more here

or google it for more blog entries.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 26, 2007)

Error reporting was successful


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## piyush gupta (Feb 26, 2007)

Ya Microsoft product is like a Pain


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## kumarmohit (Feb 26, 2007)

The price for products frm MS is a pain.


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## Kiran.dks (Feb 26, 2007)

If you think the Microsoft products are pain, don't use it. Simple. No point in singing the same old song.


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## trigger (Feb 26, 2007)

^^^ Exactly..


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2007)

Surely we would have stopped USING MS products if other 3rd party manufacturers n developers (i.e., Hardware manufacturers n Game developers) start supporting alternative OS..


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## anandk (Feb 26, 2007)

^ so y isnt that hapng


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## planetcall (Feb 26, 2007)

@amitava82, your statement is worthless. 3rd party makes softwares for windows only because you use it. Not the other way round.


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## mehulved (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				anandk said:
			
		

> ^ so y isnt that hapng


 The money game.


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2007)

ya, its all about money honey. lemme put into this way: Normal users (or MS products users) are all living into a MS matrix. they just refuse to wake up from the dream. The DREAM that tells them "there is no alternative of MS products". And by this MS turns them into money making machine.. So if you refuse to use alternatives why do you think 3rd party should go for supporting them n loose money?


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## anispace (Feb 26, 2007)

but afaik there r no alternatives. If i want to play the latest games, watch movies listen to mp3s etc. without any fuss i have to use windows. Even an expensive mac wont solve my PC gaming probs n linux wont even allow me to listen to mp3s out of the box.

so that leaves us only with Microsoft Windows. Its not the best but its the only 1 that does it all without the user having to bang his head on a wall.


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## trigger (Feb 26, 2007)

^^^ +1...


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## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

anispace said:
			
		

> but afaik there r no alternatives. If i want to play the latest games, watch movies listen to mp3s etc. without any fuss i have to use windows. Even an expensive mac wont solve my PC gaming probs n linux wont even allow me to listen to mp3s out of the box.
> 
> so that leaves us only with Microsoft Windows. Its not the best but its the only 1 that does it all without the user having to bang his head on a wall.


U shudn't say anything like that having only one sided experience!


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## kirangp (Feb 26, 2007)

The only area to be concerned is games...other than that all things can be done on other Operating Systems...Even very popular games r ported to Mac & Linux but still 95% have to be played on PC


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## piyush gupta (Feb 26, 2007)

hey its about MS s/w 

i love cracks of MS

i use them rare but i love it
see Vista after its arrival needs a service pack for working its too slow and hang up too much


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## tarey_g (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				piyush619 said:
			
		

> see Vista after its arrival needs a service pack for working its too slow and hang up too much



I'll repeat what meditator said. 



> U shudn't say anything like that having only one sided experience!


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## piyush gupta (Feb 26, 2007)

tarey_g said:
			
		

> I'll repeat what meditator said.


 

tarey_g its not what i said its what all users of Vista said

they all are waiting for SP1


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## tarey_g (Feb 26, 2007)

Don't go on what ppl say , coz ppl say things just like you did and others believe it, then they post such stuff somewhere else to confuse even more ppl .
Even i am waiting for sp1, that does not mean the current state is bad. I am using vista rtm and it didn't hang/crash even a single time. Only one problem i had was that nvidia driver which 'sometimes' did not allow me play video on full screen, but its fixed noe with the new driver release. I am running vista with 512MB memory in which 16MB is shared for the onboard 6100.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 26, 2007)

lol I am happy with my vista's performance


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## shantanu (Feb 26, 2007)

i think M$ provided the basic computer usage to US.. when we learn the first A in computer fiels we know that computer is Windows.. Even every PC today comes up with Windows Xp... If we say M$ products are very Expensive .. this is because we know that we can get it in 50 -150 bucks in the market.. then why to buy and take pain for 4000-6000 for Xp and 4000- 16000 or 18000 for Vista...

If we would not have P1rated softwares then it would be a compulsary to buy a Original windows.... but today the moral is buy p1rated ans say genuine and crack the software and give loss to the company.. *and then say that NO M$ PRODUCTS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE SO WE CANT BUY THEM THATS WHY WE GO FOR P1RATED*

thats no reason to go for a p1rated software...

I think we should all buy genuine...


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2007)

tarey_g said:
			
		

> I am using vista rtm and it didn't hang/crash even a single time.



did u say u r using RTM..????

You know what? I'm very eagerly waiting for that day when by some means either by strong law (not they way its going in india) or technology, piracy will be stopped and you will be forced to buy a legal copy of OS. I wonder then you will be willing to pay $250 for OS for your $500 pc...


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## mehulved (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> If we would not have P1rated softwares then it would be a compulsary to buy a Original windows.... but today the moral is buy p1rated ans say genuine and crack the software and give loss to the company.. *and then say that NO M$ PRODUCTS ARE VERY EXPENSIVE SO WE CANT BUY THEM THATS WHY WE GO FOR P1RATED*


What loss are you talking about? Last I heard, sale of windows accounted to around 20 or so % of MS's income and if you excluded corporate users from it, it fell to 5%. And for a company that makes a 'unethical profit' of greater than 1000% and revenue of over $40billion that is so measly amount. Here's their annual report *www.microsoft.com/msft/reports/ar06/staticversion/10k_fr_fin.html
If you didn't know let me tell you there are a few of us commerce people out here. You can't give all this BS to us.


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## amitava82 (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks for the link.. OMG look at the Operating expenses and operating income.. i dont know any other company makes such huge ratio of profit...


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## alok4best (Feb 26, 2007)

amitava82 said:
			
		

> . i dont know any other company makes such huge ratio of profit...


And thats all what busieness is all about.And to add they are good at it..


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## shantanu (Feb 26, 2007)

@tech_your_future  .. So you wanna Prove that Piracy is good and should go on... If this is so then there is no point in saying that Piracy its a crime... W should all say .. that yeah make 1000 copies of vista and Xp and all and distribute them all over coz Microsoft is having profits... DO piracy until the company goes in loss...

Thats not the thing...


and I am not giving this all to You or US (coz i am also an indian only)  ..

I am just saying that people say that * that How can US and UK people teach us Meaning oF piracy ,, what they did 60 years ago was what *

i think its just another excuse to pirate everyday softwares....

Those who dont like or cant buy original must not use windows... they should use the OSS i think thats made for them... Pirating and using windows and then saying that NO M$ cheats us and all is simply RUBBISH...

and AS PER sales : What you think all that sold in INDIA... i will fetch the records and will show you what SOLD in INDIA... i think it would be .5 % as per PIRACY RATES... 

*The WHOLE THING CONCLUDES THAT PIRACY ISNT THE ANSWER TO EXPENSIVE SOFTWARES*


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## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> Pirating and using windows and then saying that NO M$ cheats us and all is simply RUBBISH.


And what if someone uses original windows products like office 2000,xp and windows xp and then saying "MS cheats us"?
I have been activating windows-xp on my machine only for the past 4 yrs. Now it says key not authentic or something like that on both windows xp and office xp. Mahn u dont even know how it feels when u have to  use cracks to get ur own "original" product working!
R they hinting to buy the upgrade now?


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## shantanu (Feb 26, 2007)

I know what you want to say !!! but that the license agreement that no one ever reads.. the software OEM can only be Activated for limited no. of times using that key... now you can call M$ and activate your product :

this is no.1800111100

+918040103000

and after pressing 1 for activation you can press 9 directly to talk to executive..  i think he will ask your product key at the end tell him your ORIGINAL product key and your windows will be activated...


* i think you know the  procedure of activating by phone*


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## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

> the software OEM can only be Activated for limited no. of times using that key


But wasn't that for activating on different machines?

And I know I can activate it by phone. But why shud I even bother to waste extra bucks in expensive calls like that everytime now? I know u'll justify it too somehow and that i shudn't be using cracks for that. 
Thats y I feel now that people buying such thing shud "actually" read the agreement and terms!


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## shantanu (Feb 26, 2007)

look !!! i said i understand your feeling.... and i wont justify anything.. coz you are correct... Dial the TOll FREE no.  

joking but yes after purchasing the software we come to know that what it lacks and what it not...

but the thing isnt for that ...i ask you * Do you think Piracy is good *

thats the only thing i wanna know.. coz many cracked versions comes with heavily loaded no. of viruses and all types of SPYwares and all.. just that... a crack free envoirnment is what is needed...


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## casanova (Feb 26, 2007)

Thx for the link tech_your_future. If microsoft charges for their softwares, they even invest in it.


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## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

I'm completely against piracy. U can read my replies on such debates earlier!


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## shantanu (Feb 26, 2007)

yeah !!! this was only i wanted to say.. That Piracy ISNT THE ANSWER TO EXPENSIVE SOFTWARES


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## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

I understand, thats why I had gone Open source.


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## tarey_g (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				amitava82 said:
			
		

> did u say u r using RTM..????
> 
> You know what? I'm very eagerly waiting for that day when by some means either by strong law (not they way its going in india) or technology, piracy will be stopped and you will be forced to buy a legal copy of OS. I wonder then you will be willing to pay $250 for OS for your $500 pc...



Ya i am using it as many of the forum members are, do you expect a Indian citizen to buy a costly software without trying,unofficial 30 day trial. I think its ethical to do this much. And vista being a paid software has nothing to do with the stability of the OS, and stability is what i was talking abt. 
You can never compare some free software with a paid ones, even some OS is available for 100$ ,you still have to pay.


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## mehulved (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> @tech_your_future  .. So you wanna Prove that Piracy is good and should go on... If this is so then there is no point in saying that Piracy its a crime... W should all say .. that yeah make 1000 copies of vista and Xp and all and distribute them all over coz Microsoft is having profits... DO piracy until the company goes in loss...


 Let me explain it a bit further. I never said piracy is good or piracy should continue. What I am saying is piracy is in no way causing losses to MS. Otherwise why are they leinient on pirates?
As, I said in my previous posts, MS only makes 20% of it's income from sales of windows. 
So, where does the rest 80% come from? It comes from services and hardware. So, non-software products makes a  major chunk of MS's income. 
Where does that demand for services and hardware come from? Naturally, it's us consumers. 
What makes consumers choose a particular service or product? First is knowledge but the knowledge of end users as to technology that goes beyond those products/services is way too low, this is what all windows users are always shouting about - that the end user isn't supposed to know the working in too much details, it should just work.
OK, so if not knowledge then what makes consumer base their choices on? One is brand awareness and other is brand loyalty.
First is achieved by making windows available to the masses. But, many people cannot afford windows, so what do they do? They pirate. Now if you stop piracy those people will look for alternative OS. And today Mac and Linux are strong enough to pull down windows if those OS'es get a good customer base. So, you see MS let's piracy go on in their own interests.
Now coming to customer loyalty. How is that achieved? By vendor lock-ins. You create an alternative standard, which is incompatible with the existing standards. Since, windows is more popular and has created a brand awareness among masses, many people will rather buy MS products than those of the competitors. Now, that the competitor's products don't work with MS's products, people with not enough knowledge will tend to believe that the alternatives are technologically inferior since they aren't compatible with their current product and causes inconvinience of learning anew and doing all work from scratch.

So, you see, piracy is in no way causing loss to MS as you claim. On the other hand it's helping MS have higher profits and bigger customer base.
I am in no way supporting piracy. In fact the reason I gave up using windows in the first place is cos I didn't want to use pirated products. It was later on that I learnt about things with linux could teach *me* but not windows.


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## shantanu (Feb 27, 2007)

Its nice to see your thought on Original software... But the thing i wante to say is ,, that piracy isnt helping M$ as in the past year i.e 2006 in india 1200 illegal software counters were found and among them 800 were fined... if you take a look.. As you say 20 % is coming from Operating system part.. a larger amount can be earned as profit if all the pirated users buy original software.. ISNT it ....


I think you agree to this...

thats all.. but your thinking about original software is worth praising..


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## praka123 (Feb 27, 2007)

Infact OSS users also hates piracy.going with t_y_f post:
*www.newsforge.com/os/03/05/02/108224.shtml?tid=9


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## mehulved (Feb 27, 2007)

See out of that 20%, 75% is coming from corporate users, that leaves overall income of just a measly 5% from home users. Big corporations will never pirate cos their reputation is at stake. It's only sole proprietor's and home users who are amongst the pirates. So, even if the piracy is stopped it won't add anything more than 2-3% of their income. But, by loosing those 2-3% they are gaining a huge business.

I am not opposing the thought that piracy is wrong, piracy is certainly a wrong thing. What I am opposing is that you said, MS is facing losses due to piracy, which is certainly untrue. Cause piracy is adding to brand building of MS. MS can very well ignore it as an expenditure for advertisement. Well it's perfectly plausible for a company like MS to have advertismet budget bigger than 2-3% of it's income. How else would be see such a gala promotion of Vista and Zune?


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## mediator (Feb 27, 2007)

@tyf : nice post...was thinking the same!


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## shantanu (Feb 27, 2007)

^^ hey praka123 i didnt say that T_Y_F is with PIRACY... i know that many people think the correct way... whether they are OSS or CSS
__________
OK *BB*

as you say it...


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## planetcall (Feb 27, 2007)

believe it or not........we are yet to grow up. If we start paying genuine softwares then the overall cost of S/W would gobble the expense of buying a PC. Piracy is imminent in the country like India. I don't comment whether its good or bad but it is gonna stay. Microsoft is ploughing hard to weed out piracy from china and other nations but that doesn't help much.
Definition of piracy is equally strange. If I buy a CD......the CD and its content are entirely mine. Now if I share or break or crush or burn it.....why the heck are others concerned ? It is a big debate on the ethics of ownership.
Piracy is not just limited to OS. How many of you (window users) have actually bought Nero, Photoshop, Pagemaker, WinampPro and various such popular softwares ? Even if my OS was genuine(by HP) then also I needed some more softwares so I had to follow piracy. I dont have much for buying softwares and I am  not using Linux. So I conclude.....that for windows users...some form of piracy always exist !


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## shantanu (Feb 27, 2007)

I dont think you are correct BUDDY !!!! You asked how many of your BUY NERO - it comes free with BURNERS... WINAMP.. its available free on NET

Photoshop , pagemaker : I think Who needs it BUYS it.. : Professional buy it for sure..

and If you buy a DISK then if its your material ... and You are responsible ,, so Never dare To ask for Windows Update or help From Microsoft...


* its only because of people like you that PIRACY is GROWING DAY BY DAY*

and yes i dont say that i am clean in this field... many times i also bought PIRATED GAMES.. but that was when i was a KID... thereafter i always BOUGHT Original games... 

and if anyone says about my mistakes... I KNOW WHAT CAN be DIGGED out out.. in them..


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## freebird (Feb 27, 2007)

@planetcall:
perhaps trying the FLOSS softwares can solve this problems,hence piracy.there is a project called GNU WIN for Open Source Softwares for win32,
check it out.
*gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/en/bestlist.html
*gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/


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## anispace (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: Microsoft's “We Share Your Pain” Program*



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U shudn't say anything like that having only one sided experience!



what? did i say anything wrong?prove me wrong
And who said i  have never used linux. I had installed various distros of linux n have Ubuntu cds lying around(cant run them becoz of some hw incompatibility)
 can u play PC games on a mac or linux? will i be able to download torrents watch movies listen to mp3s in linux.

yeah i know some of these things r possible but if u arnt a geek(80% of the PC users arnt) then only windows is an option.

And I have original WinXP n have never faced any probs with activation or anything.


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## alok4best (Feb 27, 2007)

shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> I dont think you are correct BUDDY !!!! You asked how many of your BUY NERO - it comes free with BURNERS... WINAMP.. its available free on NET



U r wrong Buddy...The Nero that comes with burners is Demo only...and Winamap Pro is a paid software..Winamp basic is free..not the pro version.


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## shantanu (Feb 27, 2007)

WHO The Hell said you that NERO which COMES WITH BURNER is DEMO...

I our shop we have sold THOUSANDS of DVD-RW, CD-RW and COMBOS and i myself used nero 5 , 6 and now 7 .. they all are OEM full versions ,, not DEMOS... *When you dont know Dont speak*

Ask anyone in this forum about this,,, i think you never had or installed NERo by your OWn or never purchased a RW... ... 

You are trying to PROVE what is WRONG... MY GOD


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## freebird (Feb 27, 2007)

anispace said:
			
		

> what? did i say anything wrong?prove me wrong
> And who said i  have never used linux. I had installed various distros of linux n have Ubuntu cds lying around(cant run them becoz of some hw incompatibility)
> can u play PC games on a mac or linux? will i be able to download torrents watch movies listen to mp3s in linux.
> 
> ...


You can Play games on Linux.
i am downloading all my torrents for the past years on Debian GNU/Linux only.Linux is not only for geeks..
I can easily here mp3,can view/write dvds,view .wmvs,quicktime,realplayer all...and i am doing all this without Windows OS that fanboys are proud off.
the basic thing is Linux cant bundle most of these formats due to the software patent sword hanging above,spearheaded by the devil himself.so dont bash Linux.if u want all those multimedia enabled by default,try Linux-mint,freespire.


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## mediator (Feb 27, 2007)

anispace said:
			
		

> can u play PC games on a mac or linux? will i be able to download torrents watch movies listen to mp3s in linux.


YES! 


> yeah i know *some* of these things r possible but if u arnt a geek(80% of the PC users arnt) then only windows is an option.


Not some but all of these things!
Read this n Njoy!



			
				anispace said:
			
		

> And who said i have never used linux.


From ur statements, it really doesn't looks like that u have ever stepped into linux world! So Please stop following rumours from now on. Experience it for urself and then speak!



			
				anispace said:
			
		

> And I have original WinXP n have never faced any probs with activation or anything


Very good!


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## planetcall (Feb 27, 2007)

shantanu stop showing arrogance. Nero that comes bundled is a bundled edition. There are difference between a bundled and enterprise edition. Now I suggest you shut up and stop flaming in bold.


			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> its only because of people like you that PIRACY is GROWING DAY BY DAY
> 
> and yes i dont say that i am clean in this field... many times i also bought PIRATED GAMES..


Isnt that idiotic ? Lol dont blame me. You just contradicted yourself.



			
				freebird said:
			
		

> perhaps trying the FLOSS softwares can solve this problems,hence piracy.there is a project called GNU WIN for Open Source Softwares for win32,
> check it out.


Yea bro, I am aware of Foss/Floss but most of them are yet to meet the professional level attained by many commercial products. For example...nothing comes close to MSOffice in Office Suits. Agree ? Similarly there are multitude of examples.
What I mean to say that some form of piracy does exist with everybody.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by anispace
> can u play PC games on a mac or linux? will i be able to download torrents watch movies listen to mp3s in linux.
> YES!


Movies, mp3s etc are not problem with mac or linux. but gaming is a different game all together. Linux is yet to see a boom in gaming arena. It stands no where in comparison to mammoth PC games released every year. But I admit, the future is of linux and linux is maturing very fast. I have used ubuntu to a great extent and I do have a balanced view of both OS.


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## anispace (Feb 27, 2007)

the only point i want to make is that Linux is still not good enough(yeah i admit it will be in the future) for a average pc user n a mac requires its own hardware (ok macosx can be installed on a pc..but thats a diff thing). 
so naturally people prefer windows.

@mediator
what PC games can u play on Linux?
I am not a windows fanboy n i admit that i am not a Linux pro(only installed it out of curiosity) but gaming(by games i mean NFS, GTA, COD, FIFA, HL, Farcry etc) on Linux still largely dosnt exist.


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## AshishSharma (Feb 27, 2007)

Yeah linux has a long way to go before it can measure up to MS.


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## eddie (Feb 28, 2007)

planetcall said:
			
		

> There are difference between a bundled and enterprise edition.


 I very rarely use Nero (if ever) but would like to know about those differences and the ones that you regularly use. Just curious.


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## praka123 (Feb 28, 2007)

anispace said:
			
		

> what PC games can u play on Linux?
> but gaming(by games i mean NFS, GTA, COD, FIFA, HL, Farcry etc) on Linux still largely dosnt exist.


 In Linux,these games are emulated as on a win32 environment.there is a software called WINE.there are different projects born from WINE and the best out of it is a paid one: *cedega* earlier known as winex from a company called transgaming.most famous games(windows versions!) can be played in UNIXens.
another project is called crossover office which allows install of M$ office etc.

So until upto the point when gaming corporations port native UNIX version of games,We,Linux/*NIX users are not at all in a loss,we can play most games although cedega,crossover office etc are paid ones as those games are too.


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## mediator (Feb 28, 2007)

planetcall said:
			
		

> Movies, mp3s etc are not problem with mac or linux. but gaming is a different game all together. Linux is yet to see a boom in gaming arena. It stands no where in comparison to mammoth PC games released every year. But I admit, the future is of linux and linux is maturing very fast. I have used ubuntu to a great extent and I do have a balanced view of both OS.


He asked if it can be done! I'm not talking about the comparison. Neways I'm glad that my favourite game => "kof 98 " runs on linux better than on windows.



			
				anispace said:
			
		

> the only point i want to make is that Linux is still not good enough(yeah i admit it will be in the future) for a average pc user n a mac requires its own hardware (ok macosx can be installed on a pc..but thats a diff thing).


Can u describe an "average user" in ur own terms please?   



			
				anispace said:
			
		

> so naturally people prefer windows.


That is quite biased view actually. I think u aren't a full time mac or linux user. May be thats y u r making guesses!
Here's some nice explanation to why people "naturally prefer windows". Its not about its "ease" (dunno whats so easy in it when the noobie has to callsystem engineers all the time). If that was the case then y rn't they using Mac (which my brothers here say is the most easy to use)? Its mostly about ignorance of people about other OSs! I hope u can compare the popularity of linux 5 yrs ago and now. Why r people moving to linux now? Is it something they prefer naturally or has to do with awareness about other OSs now? I advice u to read debates here on win Vs linux, and other similar topics first. That wud save every one from repeating same old stuff again.



			
				anispace said:
			
		

> but gaming(by games i mean NFS, GTA, COD, FIFA, HL, Farcry etc) on Linux still largely dosnt exist.
> anispace is offline Add to anispace's Reputation Report Bad Post   	Reply With Quote


Ofcors they dont exist. But that doesn't mean that they can't exist.  There r games like unreal tournament and other heavy duty games that run. U can google to find them. I'm not much of a hardcore gamer, so I dont know all about it. Read this...a thread containing some games. Or u can create a thread in OPENSOURCE asking members to tell u some linux games. I bet u'll be surprised by the response. Its not as advance as windows, but it surely has progressed a lot!




			
				anispace said:
			
		

> am not a Linux pro(only installed it out of curiosity)


I guess this ends it all. Now try to be more curious and explore it (like u used to explore windows when u were noobie and used to call a system engineer everytime when u were stuck with a problem).So explore it before speaking any further!


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