# Qualcomm aims for low-end Market by new Snapdragon 410



## Zangetsu (Dec 10, 2013)

With the Snapdragon 410, Qualcomm takes aim at MediaTek


----------



## ZTR (Dec 10, 2013)

First 64 bit CPU by Qualcomm and that too low end


----------



## rish1 (Dec 10, 2013)

ZTR said:


> First 64 bit CPU by Qualcomm and that too low end



first cortex a53 chip

first arm v8 instruction based chip

first 4g lte supported chip in low end


----------



## Hrishi (Dec 10, 2013)

Now , take that MediaTek.!!!


----------



## coderunknown (Dec 10, 2013)

damn Qualcomm. Such a big upgrade yet such a minor name change.


----------



## SaiyanGoku (Dec 11, 2013)

hope that maufacturers use this instead of cr@ppy cortex a5 or a7 "quad" cores in 10-15k phones.


----------



## rish1 (Dec 11, 2013)

sam said:


> damn Qualcomm. Such a big upgrade yet such a minor name change.



sam because it is not that big of a major upgradae

cortex a53 sounds like a big shift from a7 but it is like an upgraded cortex a7 .. 

as per arm

cortex a7 - 1.9 dmips
cortex a53 - 2.3 dmips

more like 20-25 % faster on the same clock

adreno 306 also sounds like a minor upgrade from adreno 305..

so this chip brings in 64 bit support ( useless ) new instruction set to support 64 bit and 4g lte support..

The best part about this chip is it's price this would end up in phones costing less than 10,000 rs 4g phones under Rs 10,000 with good enough performance ( 20- 25 % better performance than moto g)

the mid range Chips will be announced at Consumer electronic show ( jan 7 ) for 300 $ phones which will include adreno 400 gpu
those will be heavy upgraded chips for that price range...
 and by my guess they will be available first in devices which will launch by march or April..



> Now , take that MediaTek.!!!



lol.. this is scheduled to come after 6-8 months by that time expect 8 core cortex a53 from mediatek with 4g support and cortex a12 ( dmips - 3.0 ) based chips..


----------



## kg11sgbg (Dec 11, 2013)

Battle between Qualcomm and Mediatek :---> winner :---> us the consumers.


----------



## rish1 (Dec 13, 2013)

> I wanted to ask one thing ,I have heard 64bit midrange phones to come in 2H 2014
> Qualcomm announces 64-bit, entry-level Snapdragon 410 - GSMArena.com news
> So does that mean 32bit phones would become inferior and be on path to obsoletion and discontinuity in terms of support in the long run ?
> Thanks



yes infact the very first android device that will be 64 bit is going to be samsung galaxy s5 which will launch in 3 months from now.. so snapdragon 805 is the last chip that is going to be 32 bit in the high end , 

there are only 2 chip makers that dominate the whole world mediatek and qualcomm...

Mediatek has also already started working on their 64 bit chips

Next generation Mediatek processor to use ARM Cortex-A50 64-bit processors and Mali GPU

so their chips will also be out in devices by may - june time frame

But cortex A12 was released this year only and that is 32 bit .. so only cortex a12 will be the new chips that will be 32 bit .. 

cortex A7 will be replaced with ==> cortex A53 (64 bit)
Cortex A15 will be replaced with ===> cortex A57( 64 bit )

so Cortex A7 and A15 are officially dead now.. there will be no new chips based on cortex A7 and Cortex A15 after 2h 2014

so arm may also launch a 64 bit version for cortex a12 like Cortex A55 next year .. that means by 2015 all phones will be 64 bit .. end of cycle for 32 bit .. but the majority of mobiles will be 64 bit after 2h of 2014.. as cortex A53 is the cheapest chip out of all 3..

*so to sum it up .. from 2h of 2014 majority of new phones will be 64 bit but there will also be new 32 bit phones with cortex A12 but those will be less in number compared to 64 bit*

now the second question compatibility of apps and do 64 bit really mean anything ? 

64 bit chips can run both 32 bit as well as 64 bit applications .. so developers won't be making any new 64 bit only apps for the next 3-4  years .. 

but but 64 bit is only 1 part these new chips are also ARMv8 while till now we were having ARMv7a chips .. 64 bit is not going to give you any performance benefits over 32 bit .. but Arm v8 is going to give you good performance bump over Armv7a 
so expect high end games to be only Armv8 compatible , or they will make 2 diff versions of the game 1 for arm v8 and 1 for armv7a.. but all this is going to happen in 2016.. till then don't worry about compatibility


----------



## Hrishi (Dec 13, 2013)

rish said:


> yes infact the very first android device that will be 64 bit is going to be samsung galaxy s5 which will launch in 3 months from now.. so snapdragon 805 is the last chip that is going to be 32 bit in the high end ,
> 
> there are only 2 chip makers that dominate the whole world mediatek and qualcomm...
> 
> ...


Good info there.
Long way ahead, smartphones built these days don't last that long.


----------



## vijju6091 (Dec 13, 2013)

^^ Good info. and It will heat up competition and Biennials will be us.......


----------



## coderunknown (Dec 13, 2013)

rish said:


> so to sum it up .. from 2h of 2014 majority of new phones will be 64 bit but there will also be new 32 bit phones with cortex A12 but those will be less in number compared to 64 bit



true. A12 will be faster than A53 but when it comes to written spec, 64bit looks nice so most manufacturer will slap their mid-low end phone with A53 instead of A12. at least in ads they can show "now support 64bit Android" as if they'll get a 64bit Android OS update at the first place as most simply ship a 1yr old OS with another 1yr old update some 12-15months later.

*PS:* chips based on Cortex A7 took such a long time to debut from Qualcomm. Wonder if phonemakers are going to switch to Cortex A12 (should appear in 20-25k price range) or directly make the jump to A53.



rish said:


> now the second question compatibility of apps and do 64 bit really mean anything ?
> 
> 64 bit chips can run both 32 bit as well as 64 bit applications .. so developers won't be making any new 64 bit only apps for the next 3-4  years ..



we'll have 2k screen that will require more than 2GB ram obviously. then maybe 64bit OS may come into play. for now its useless.



rish said:


> so expect high end games to be only Armv8 compatible , or they will make 2 diff versions of the game 1 for arm v8 and 1 for armv7a.. but all this is going to happen in 2016.. till then don't worry about compatibility



hope Google doesn't remove ARMv6 compatibility from its apps anytime soon.


----------



## rish1 (Dec 13, 2013)

sam said:


> true. A12 will be faster than A53 but when it comes to written spec, 64bit looks nice so most manufacturer will slap their mid-low end phone with A53 instead of A12. at least in ads they can show "now support 64bit Android" as if they'll get a 64bit Android OS update at the first place as most simply ship a 1yr old OS with another 1yr old update some 12-15months later.



i was actually going to write the same thing in the previous post but then i remembered an article stating that rockchip , allwinner cortex a12 are already in production ...
even mediatek will be launching them by 2h

Mediatek confirms LTE chip on the way along with new Cortex A12 chip : Gizchina.com

so there will be some chips out there maybe they might try implementing big.LITTLE with 2 cortex A12 with 2 Cortex A53
or cortex A12 might end up totally tablet only chips.. but mediatek will bring it to mainstream.. so that gives 32 bit chips a liitle bit more life.. 


> *PS:* chips based on Cortex A7 took such a long time to debut from Qualcomm.



*1)* Comming to qualcomm why would qualcom use Cortex A12 ? the sole objective of ARM for bringing Cortex A12 was to compete against qualcomm krait .. cortex A7 is very power efficient but very weak also.. whereas cortex a15 is very powerful and power hungry  , in fact in 2012 chipmakers were unable to make use of cortex a15 in smartphones it needed way too much power to run .. The reason qualcomm has been so succesful is because arm did not provide other chip makers an option that gives high performance at good power effecieny ..

that is why qualcomm developed their own krait cores . and were hugely successful because the competition was using older cortex a9 in 2012 . krait were a huge improvement over cortex a9 while being inferior to cortex a15 .. 

Krait cores and Cortex A12 have exactly the same performance .. cortex a12 is made for other manufacturers other than qualcomm  ..

*2)* regarding qqualcomm launching cortex 7 cpu so late ...
this is the part i hate most about qualcomm .. they all became cocky after acquiring the high end market , their initial plan was to keep using that cortex A5 junk , just increase the no of cores and serve those to the developing nations while enjoying massive profits instead of giving a reasonable performance with cortex A7 .. Cortex A5 Refused to get out of the market ..luckily mediatek rose from the Ashes and showed a middle finger to qualcomm  and launched their quad core Cortex A7 in november last year , while qualcomm quad core cortex A5 were still yet to come out in the market .. qualcomm was disrupted and then they announced in the december later that they will release cortex A7 cpu . while mediatek based cortex a7 devices had already started selling , qualcomm cortex a7 were supposed to come 1 year later .. and Moto G is their first device with cortex A7 . 



> Wonder if phonemakers are going to switch to Cortex A12 (should appear in 20-25k price range) or directly make the jump to A53.



I think they will go directly with cortex A53

a) A its Cheaper than cortex A12
b) they get marketing bragging rights  





> we'll have 2k screen that will require more than 2GB ram obviously. then maybe 64bit OS may come into play. for now its useless.



i guess you meant 4 gb , yes but that requirement will be in high end when note 4 launches with 4 gb RAm .. 4 gb ram in low end isn't comming for the next 2 years .. qualcomm moved to cortex a53 this time quite fast because they learnt their last lesson if they don't act fast mediatek will eat them up in the low end again .. smart move announcing it first  





> hope Google doesn't remove ARMv6 compatibility from its apps anytime soon.



Arm v6 ? who uses arm v6 now they  became obselete 3 years go... if you are talking about arm v7 then no google won't remove anything at least not for the next 4 years


----------



## ZTR (Dec 13, 2013)

rish said:


> Arm v6 ? who uses arm v6 now they  became obselete 3 years go... if you are talking about arm v7 then no google won't remove anything at least not for the next 4 years



People still use Armv6 phones like Optimus One,Samsung Galaxy Ace and ZTE blade lol


----------



## quagmire (Dec 14, 2013)

rish said:


> > we'll have 2k screen that will require more than 2GB ram obviously. then maybe 64bit OS may come into play. for now its useless.
> 
> 
> 
> i guess you meant 4 gb , yes but that requirement will be in high end when note 4 launches with 4 gb RAm .. 4 gb ram in low end isn't comming for the next 2 years .. qualcomm moved to cortex a53 this time quite fast because they learnt their last lesson if they don't act fast mediatek will eat them up in the low end again .. smart move announcing it first



iPad Air has a 64 bit OS also a >2k screen..  How does it manage with 1 GB RAM?


I wonder how many OEMs will innovate like Motorola did with Moto X with the X8 computing system, I mean their 'contextual computing' core and 'natural language processing' core..


----------



## ZTR (Dec 14, 2013)

quagmire said:


> iPad Air has a 64 bit OS also a >2k screen..  How does it manage with 1 GB RAM?


 Cause iOS is better optimized than android
As its designed around the hardware not the other way round.


----------



## rish1 (Dec 14, 2013)

ZTR said:


> People still use Armv6 phones like Optimus One,Samsung Galaxy Ace and ZTE blade lol



they were outdated 2 years ago and the support stopped 2 years ago for them..

note - when i say no support for arm v6 i mean no more new applications will be developed for them, but they can  always use what has been already developed that's why they can all access google play store and download old games..

when i said arm v7 will be compatible for next 3 years means that even after introduction of 64 bit new apps will still be developed for 32 bit..  after that they can still have access to play store and download whatever as been already developed.. 

same way as you can still open google market in android 2.0 and download apps made for the device but no new apps support android 2.2 now



> iPad Air has a 64 bit OS also a >2k screen.. How does it manage with 1 GB RAM?



A high Resolution screen does not require more RAM , it needs More GPU POWER since gpu pushes out all those extra pixels.. and more cpu power to manage that extra GPU Processing

see the effect apple iphone 5s and apple ipad air have same gpu 

iphone 5s pushes out 37.5 fps in gfx bench
while ipad air pushes out 20.9 fps in gfxbench

what i meant by that comment is 

32 bit  has a limitation that it can support only 3.7gb Ram

that's where the "Need" for 64 bit chips comes into play.. until then its useless.. especially since mobile rams aren't upgradable

Ram is required by OS and apps to run .. ios is heavily optimized so it hardly uses much ram .. infact with the introduction of android 4.4 kit kat .. even kitkat does not uses more than 200 mb ram to run .. and regarding Games hardly any game requires more than 100-200 mb ram.. and in Ios they are so heavily optimized they make really efficient use of RAm and resources as developers have only 4-5 hardware configuration, whereas in android there are millions of hardware configuration .. 

Play station 3 has only 256 mb ram .. and see how it easily runs games like last of us, GTA 5, COD and other graphic heavy games.. it's all about optimization

 and if you start multitasking by opening many apps all at same time.. the os starts killing previously opened apps to make more room that's why we have app crashes .. this is true for every OS be it iOS,android or wp .. 



> I wonder how many OEMs will innovate like Motorola did with Moto X with the X8 computing system, I mean their 'contextual computing' core and 'natural language processing' core..



what moto did is nothing new .. nvidia does the same thing  tegra 3 and tegra 4 with their Fifth core..


----------



## kartikoli (Dec 15, 2013)

just wait and watch. I hope samsung stops using useless A5 in there 10k range phones


----------



## ankush28 (Dec 15, 2013)

kartikoli said:


> just wait and watch. I hope samsung stops using useless A5 in there 10k range phones



And I hope peoples stop buying those crap.


----------



## rish1 (Dec 15, 2013)

kartikoli said:


> just wait and watch. I hope samsung stops using useless A5 in there 10k range phones



they actually have with introduction of galaxy s duos 2.. they might still use a5 in their 6-7k phones


----------



## Hrishi (Dec 15, 2013)

One of my friend was going to buy desire sv (htc). He was doing so.because he though that with 8mp camera. It'll.be awesome.for videos.     Unfortunately he didn't knew that the SOC wasn't powerful enough to even.encode 720p properly.  Adreno 205,  a5 dual.core. :facepalm when.there are better camera phones out there like lumia.


----------



## Hrishi (Dec 15, 2013)

Even those people who are in tech domains fall for such stupid lures,  it feels bad.


----------



## Zangetsu (Dec 15, 2013)

Rishi. said:


> One of my friend was going to buy desire sv (htc). He was doing so.because he though that with 8mp camera. It'll.be awesome.for videos.     Unfortunately he didn't knew that the SOC wasn't powerful enough to even.*encode 720p properly.  Adreno 205*,  a5 dual.core. :facepalm when.there are better camera phones out there like lumia.


Adreno 205 can encode 720p videos


----------



## ZTR (Dec 15, 2013)

Zangetsu said:


> Adreno 205 can encode 720p videos



While mediatek can do 1080p


----------

