# India is Developing



## shakshy (Dec 13, 2006)

Its not a political agenda nor a manifesto. Is India really developing?? 

If its so why my modem hears the engaged song of my phone, why is it taking me ages to get a broadband connection, why are those ponds growing on my town road, why is my electricity uncle playing hide and seek with us. Why is the pan-chewing fat person over the office asking for a hundred Rs. for tea whenever I ask him to pass my bill. Why why why......


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## Aberforth (Dec 13, 2006)

India is developing of course, like it has been for the last 55 years.


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## shakshy (Dec 13, 2006)

Surely India is developing but at the rate of a snail's racing


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## iMav (Dec 13, 2006)

shakshy said:
			
		

> Why why why......


 becuase ur living in india and dealing with indians ...


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## mail2and (Dec 13, 2006)

See, development is not something that occurs in a day. If you look at India from a pure economic point of view, then India is the 10th largest economy in the world in terms of GDP(dollar terms) and 4th largest in terms of GDP(PPP terms). Our banking sector and the secondary markets are very well regulated. However, because of the huge population, the general human development in the country suffers.

But, if you look from the human development point of view, India is still a developing country. We rank 120th out of around 170 countries in terms of HDI(human developmental index).

We must look at China as an example. Even Sri Lanka has a higher HDI than India. The problem for this is obvious: corrupt politicians and bureaucrats. 

Only when we achieve High Human Development status, we will truly become a developed country.
__________


			
				shakshy said:
			
		

> Surely India is developing but at the rate of a snail's racing



I wouldn't call 8% p.a. a snail's pace.


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## nix (Dec 14, 2006)

^its not all about the numbers...people's attitude has to change. it has to come from within us that we need to keep this place clean. and also govt must adopt the hire and fire policy...babus dont work but still get salary...india's in a big mess and i dont think we'll ever get out of it. we'll keep getting deeper and deeper into problems. the biggest problem i think we're facing now is vote bank politics....


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## mail2and (Dec 14, 2006)

nix said:
			
		

> ^its not all about the numbers...people's attitude has to change. it has to come from within us that we need to keep this place clean. and also govt must adopt the hire and fire policy...babus dont work but still get salary...india's in a big mess and i dont think we'll ever get out of it. we'll keep getting deeper and deeper into problems. the biggest problem i think we're facing now is vote bank politics....



Doesn't my point about corrupt governance and bureaucracy cover this. People's attitude changes only when a govt. is serious about the implementation of rules. If a fine on spreading litter is strictly imposed and defaulters are severely fined, I can guarantee that people will stop littering. However, as I and you said, it's about governance and bureaucracy.

True development will only be achieved when the farmer becomes the king, again. It's all about bringing another green revolution, and ensuring that the wrong policies of the 70s and 80s are not repeated again. 

I feel broadband and all the crap can wait. It's not necessary. We can survive without downloading porn, illegal movies, pirated operating systems and linux distros. I'd much rather have 256 kbps in a small village, than 2 mbps in a big city. The focus should be on the farmer, and not the middle class urban teen who wants to download stuff.

I also think that cotton cultivation should be severely restricted in India. Because of the subsidies that the US gives to it's large agri-industry, int'l cotton prices have not risen in a decade. However, the input cost has increased. Prime example is Maharashtra. The cost of production of cotton is way more than the MSP(minimum support price) that the govt. can afford to offer. That is why, the cultivation of such crops should be severely limited, as they will lead to nothing but losses and more farmer suicides.

I'll type more tomorrow morning.


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## caleb (Dec 14, 2006)

shakshy said:
			
		

> Its not a political agenda nor a manifesto. Is India really developing??
> 
> If its so why my modem hears the engaged song of my phone, why is it taking me ages to get a broadband connection, why are those ponds growing on my town road, why is my electricity uncle playing hide and seek with us. Why is the pan-chewing fat person over the office asking for a hundred Rs. for tea whenever I ask him to pass my bill. Why why why......


 Welocme to the club of a Billion people who ask this same question sub-consciously or consciously everyday. 

Ponds are growing on your TOWN road?...than you are lucky man, I live in CITY(Mumbai the economic hub of India...oh yeah it is also called "MAHA"nagar) but I've got ponds, craters & what not growing, not just on my CITY roads but also on flyovers...can you beat that?... having a huge pot hole on a flyover on a certain highway called Western "EXPRESS HIGHWAY"???

So the answer to your question is a resounding YES, YES, YES...we are developing more pot holes, MORE corruption, MORE riots, MORE killings in the name of religion, MORE noise pollution, MORE deseases, MORE govt postal & electricity employees visiting us at all festivals to ask for MORE "donations", MORE downtime from my vsnl broadband...WOW mate we ARE DEVELOPING....Yeh dil mange MORE!!!


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## Desi-Tek.com (Dec 14, 2006)

want to make india developed? develop your self  and India will be developed


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## faraaz (Dec 14, 2006)

Developing != Developed...

So there you go...

When people call India a Developed country, you won't have all that sh!t...

But then again, wake up and smell the...uh...cow doings on the road mate!! This is India, not Europe! That stuff is never gonna go away...you just have to work around it...


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## blackpearl (Dec 14, 2006)

Economy is developing but not the people.


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## it_waaznt_me (Dec 14, 2006)

caleb you didnt even bother to read Andy's reply above yours. 

To add to Andy's reply, I'd add some more .. If India is really developing why is that we are not able to see those changes (positive changes mind you) ..? The problem is people' thinking is self centered. If a flyover is being built, people wont appreciate the building .. they'll curse the roadjam caused cauz of construction work .. 
Definition of development is relative to a person ... If you are compugeek, you'll want "development" in broadband, pricing , infrastructure et al .. You wont even notice a new hospital opened for public  .. 

My senior tells me that you new people are like man in a hurry .. You want everything fast .. You dont appreciate small changes .. I guess this applies to all of our generation ..

@Andy : Comparing India to China isnt justified .. China is a communist country where people comes after development .. 

anyways ..


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## ruthless (Dec 14, 2006)

The only reason reason for present condition is corrupt politicians.
We must appreciate the small changes and must contribute for the good of society. We cant simply say that "He isnt doing it, then why should I?"
We have to join hands with govt to make India the best country in the world


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## shakshy (Dec 14, 2006)

caleb said:
			
		

> So the answer to your question is a resounding YES, YES, YES...we are developing more pot holes, MORE corruption, MORE riots, MORE killings in the name of religion, MORE noise pollution, MORE deseases, MORE govt postal & electricity employees visiting us at all festivals to ask for MORE "donations", MORE downtime from my vsnl broadband...WOW mate we ARE DEVELOPING....Yeh dil mange MORE!!!


Surely we can't say positive development on ^^^those cases. But that's the real picture of India.
If we are compugeeks it doesn't meant that we want development only on this field (broadband) as you ( it_waznt_me) said. Broadband won't work unless there's telephone line, electricity, and the ISP itself. So it is not likely that there would be a real development if only a particular field growns while others remain undeveloped as it has happened in India. Only the economy has grown which has gone to the pockets of the corporates and we the people are left to suffer.


			
				mail2and said:
			
		

> I'd much rather have 256 kbps in a small village, than 2 mbps in a big city.


^^LoL say 256 kbps. Think man its the town I am living where the local fone exchangewala dosn't know what is broadband, I wud be much happier if I get even 64 kbps.


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## Aberforth (Dec 14, 2006)

mail2and said:
			
		

> See, development is not something that occurs in a day. If you look at India from a pure economic point of view, then India is the 10th largest economy in the world in terms of GDP(dollar terms) and 4th largest in terms of GDP(PPP terms).



Divide the GDP by the population and you get the per capita GDP which shows the real position of India. GDP is used by ruling party as a propagada to show development. Human Development Index which takes into count the finer points of development gives a grimer picture of India, at 148th rank.

We have developed as far as protecting the powerful, politicians' interest is concerned. We also have a legislature (Parliament) with lawmakers composed of serious criminals and goons. Now when the court wants to help, they stand in arms and make a hue and cry over an 'over active' judiciary. And then we blame the judicial system?


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## mail2and (Dec 14, 2006)

Aberforth said:
			
		

> Divide the GDP by the population and you get the per capita GDP which shows the real position of India. GDP is used by ruling party as a propagada to show development. Human Development Index which takes into count the finer points of development gives a grimer picture of India, at 148th rank.
> 
> We have developed as far as protecting the powerful, politicians' interest is concerned. We also have a legislature (Parliament) with lawmakers composed of serious criminals and goons. Now when the court wants to help, they stand in arms and make a hue and cry over an 'over active' judiciary. And then we blame the judicial system?



127th rank as per the Human Development Report, 2005; UNDP. I mentioned the population problem, didn't I? 

If you would've read the rest of my post, I mentioned HDI, too.

HDI depends upon factors like education, literacy, health, and not just material well-being of a person. That's why, Kerala has a high HDI comparable to developing nations like China, when the per capita income of Kerala is lower than some of the backward states in the country. It's called the 'Kerala model of development'.


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## iMav (Dec 14, 2006)

well india is developing as posted by andy but indians are not developing as posted by shakshy

its more to do with the attitude of people which certainly wont change over night and once this attitude changes india will attain development at a rate double than now in a time half tht it took to achieve the development it has


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## mail2and (Dec 14, 2006)

it_waaznt_me said:
			
		

> @Andy : Comparing India to China isnt justified .. China is a communist country where people comes after development ..
> 
> anyways ..



But, China is ranked at the 80th place in terms of HDI. It is expected to join the  'High Human Development' club in 20 years time. 

We've got a party(CPI), sharing the power, with such double standards that their crap just can't be accepted. They oppose every development policy, they oppose SEZs. They oppose the nuclear deal. Yet, in the state in which they rule, they forcibly evict farmers for the Tata SEZ?

But, in terms of 'freedom', yes we are much better than China. I can say anything about the country, the PM, the govt, the ruling party in India. I wouldn't fancy doing that in China.

Some one mentioned about the conflict of religions. I'd request that person to visit USA/UK/France. Those are developed countries and yet ppl in those countries are at conflict because of religion, race, colour etc. 

I feel a lot of ppl in India are too cynical. Bat is correct when he gave the example of the fly over. It's perhaps the trend: Cool hippies find everything wrong about India.

I hate the political class, too; but I don't hate the people. The people of our country, given a chance, can do anything.


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## ruthless (Dec 14, 2006)

Kerala has low Per Capita Income 
I dont believe it 
From what i know per capita income is Rs 21,853

It is in the top 7 of the country in terms of per capita income.

@mail2and- Which backward states were you refering to?


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## tuxfan (Dec 14, 2006)

India has a 8% growth which is one of the best in the world and that too despite the presence of rogue nations like Pakistan as neighbour which keeps the border burning!!

If India could have saved all those defence money spent in first protecting Punjab and Kashmir, then we could have even achieved 10% growth rate.

India is surely developing, but the bloody politicians and rogue neighbours are pulling it down from all corners!! Politicians are a liability for the nation!


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## mail2and (Dec 14, 2006)

ruthless said:
			
		

> Kerala has low Per Capita Income
> I dont believe it
> From what i know per capita income is Rs 21,853
> 
> ...



*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model 

Check the other resources on this. 

*www.mapsofindia.com/maps/india/percapitaincome.htm

This should clear your misconceptions. The stats are a bit old, but they're still relevant.

What I meant by backward states are the states that rank lower in HDI.

Don't take it personally. It's actually a complement to the state that it has achieve high levels of human development, despite the relatively less development of industries in the state.


*Another thing that I'd like to mention is that our economy is growing at 9% despite the government, and not because of the govt.*


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## ruthless (Dec 14, 2006)

No hard feelings man 

I got my statistics from derek o brian year book 2006 published by Pengin.
__________


			
				mail2and said:
			
		

> *Another thing that I'd like to mention is that our economy is growing at 9% despite the government, and not because of the govt.*


*

LOLZ.
I totally agree*


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## shakshy (Dec 14, 2006)

mail2and said:
			
		

> I hate the political class, too; but I don't hate the people. The people of our country, given a chance, can do anything.


It's the politcal beings of India to be blamed, thats true but our own people are also the part of the politics. Our people can do anything if given chance and that applies also to their bad-doing. Why are those riots and fightings taking place?? These are the creation of politics but they are also supported by the people. Our own mob are the makers of trouble's in many of such cases. How much of resources, public properties India has lost on these hungamas which are destroyed by our own people. 

Untill people use their own minds to think what is right development is far from sight.


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## ravi_9793 (Dec 14, 2006)

agree wid u.........
but lets forget our poltics and neighbour n put our best to develop our country.


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## ashisharya (Dec 15, 2006)

nix said:
			
		

> ^its not all about the numbers...people's attitude has to change. it has to come from within us that we need to keep this place clean. and also govt must adopt the hire and fire policy...babus dont work but still get salary...india's in a big mess and i dont think we'll ever get out of it. we'll keep getting deeper and deeper into problems. the biggest problem i think we're facing now is vote bank politics....





anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............


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## mail2and (Dec 15, 2006)

ashisharya said:
			
		

> anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............



Best post in the thread so far.


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## ravi_9793 (Dec 15, 2006)

ashisharya said:
			
		

> anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............


agree wid u...but this is nt as simple as u r saying.
u knw the political condition of our country.U cant be a politician if u dont follow the indian style of poltics..u understand wht I mean.
We simple man cannot do all those,...but yes,from a chair also we can contribute something in development of our country.


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## iMav (Dec 15, 2006)

ashisharya said:
			
		

> anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............


 any1 can see a movie and quote the same words (RDB all sitting in bar, mahadevan saying almost the same thing) .... and yes same goes to u .... i can also tell others to change but theres no point if i dont change myself


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## shadow slayer 2007 (Dec 15, 2006)

well its hard for me to change
so i dont tell others to change
coz i only care if technology in india develops which it is doin now


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## caleb (Dec 15, 2006)

it_waaznt_me said:
			
		

> caleb you didnt even bother to read Andy's reply above yours.
> 
> To add to Andy's reply, I'd add some more .. If India is really developing why is that we are not able to see those changes (positive changes mind you) ..? The problem is people' thinking is self centered. If a flyover is being built, people wont appreciate the building .. they'll curse the roadjam caused cauz of construction work ..
> Definition of development is relative to a person ... If you are compugeek, you'll want "development" in broadband, pricing , infrastructure et al .. You wont even notice a new hospital opened for public  ..
> ...


 Who is Andy??? If you are referring to mailtoand than I have read his post...but just bcoz andy feels that "The focus should be on the farmer, and not the middle class urban teen who wants to download stuff" does not mean that's the way to go. 

I am all for the poor farmer (coz I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the farmer) but I am an urban (although 20 years past my teens) person & I pay taxes honestly so I have every right to question what we (the "urban middle class"...btw we too are the citizens of this country) are being made to face everyday.

I've worked 3 years in UK (and travel 21 days a year outside India...work related) and I have seen flyovers being built in many countires (eg. Tokyo, Japan which is MUCH more densely populated than Mumbai)and They DO NOT inconvenience the commuters and the work gets completed without causing the kind of congestions that it causes in Mumbai...ofcourse I'll curse the contractors & the politicians who are doing such a careless job when I see a motorcycle rider dead becoz of the negligence of the shoddy construction/repair work being carried out wihtout any  safety precautions(btw just 1 month ago on western Express highway in Mumbai a repair work caused the death of a motorcycle rider).

Also jsut bcoz China's people vs development policy as per you is not justified does not mean we shouldn't be comparing ourselves to China. We have a lot to learn from China...even if we agree to yor view point that in China "people comes after development" they are much better off coz we put neither development nor people first...only the politicians pocket is put first. 

You say "Definition of development is relative to a person" yes to a certain extent it is true but people are not blind to just say that bcoz I don't get broadband connection we are underdeveloped...we are talking of the overall aspect of our country. Take a look at he farmers for the past 10 years...they've been mass suicides...do you know why?...LACK OF DEVELOPMENT mate. If in a city like Mumbai does not get proper water supply what do you think is happening to the rural folk?

We are not in a hurry but we can definately see that at the rate we are going it is FAR TOO SLOW...all of which is totally unacceptable bcoz we can achieve so much more with THE SAME RESOURCES that we currently have.


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## shakshy (Dec 15, 2006)

ashisharya said:
			
		

> anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............


It's not like that...by being a politician is not the only way we can change our country. Rather, we cannot change our country by being politician. There are many ways by which we can develope our country....


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## caleb (Dec 17, 2006)

ashisharya said:
			
		

> anyone can sit in a chair and can type dese words dude.....if u really wanna change ur country be a politician and then do good for country......change urself first.............


 This is the favourite line of all our politicinas...why should one become a politician? We are PAYING our politicians do their job right. 

Do you join the municipality of your locality becoz they can't clear all the garbage in your area?...do you take up a drivers job because the local buses in your area does not have good drivers?...when you elect & PAY for a politician it is your job to talk & make noise about it and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Dec 17, 2006)

India is developing only for rich peoples ,not for poor peoples 30% indian poulation is still below poverty line .Farmers are commiting suicide in Maharastra and Uttar pradesh , and the govt is giving their land for SEZ .So what we can think about real Development . Untill and unless the vicious circle of poverty is reduced it will be idiotic to be called as developing india or I say we are living in fool's paradise


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## Ganeshkumar (Dec 28, 2006)

Desi-Tek.com said:
			
		

> want to make india developed? develop your self  and India will be developed



Ya dude  u r correct. U be a true Indian. Dont take n give bribe. Ask for ur rights. Thats enough for INDIA TO DEVELOP.....


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Dec 28, 2006)

my family pay taxes,inever pee or spit on the road,never throw garbage on road.i m studying to give something back.thats my contribution


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