# Windows is !easy, Linux is !hard



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 2, 2007)

*This is a rant. If you are easily offended then don't read this. I repeat. Don't read this. I am going to be ranting about how fan boyz and girlz go on and on and on about how easy it is to install programs in windows and how hard it is to install programs in Linux.* 

Many times it is their biggest argument about the superiority of windows. Programs are easy to install. You don't have to CMMI (Configure,Make,Make Install), you don't have to use the command line. All you have to do is click next and the program is installed. 

Bull! I just recently installed MSDE and its associated web data admin on a freshly installed, fully updated windows XP. It was a pain. Not because it was hard. Anyone with half of a brain could install it. It was a lot of wasted time and effort for such a simple task. To install these two programs I had to follow the following steps. Note: These are Microsoft programs written by Microsoft and supplied by MS's web site. 

Find the programs on the web site.
Download them.
Run MSDE to find that it just unpacked itself to a directory.
Go to that directory and run setup.
Find out that I had to supply a command line switch.
Go to the command line and run the setup again with the command line switch.
#$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click
Reboot the computer.
Run the setup for web data admin.
Get a message that it needs .net 1.1
#$%&!@ and #$%&!@ about dependency hell
Download .net 1 after finding it because the automatic link takes you to .net 2
#$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click
Run the setup for web data admin.
#$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click
After all of that effort I was rewarded with being able to run the programs. All this time I was thinking (and #$%&!@) about this article and how it is so much easier and faster in Lİnux. Just for kicks I went through the equivalent procedure in Kubuntu. 

Start up Adept Manager.
Put the term "postgre" in the search box and wait a couple of seconds for all postgresql programs to list.
Choose install for postgresql as the closest thing to MS's MSDE.
Choose install for postgresql-client just because I felt like it.
Choose install for phppgadmin as the closest thing to MS'S web data admin.
Click on Apply Changes
Start making a cup of coffee while everything is downloaded and installed.
Close Adept Manager after everything was installed.
Finish making my cup of coffee and drink it while playing with the database.
This was a far simpler process than under windows. There was much less effort and I didn't have to go searching around the web because the #$%&!@ windows program wanted some dependency installed. The Adept Manager and indeed the package managers of many distributions automatically finds and downloads all dependencies of whatever program you choose. It is a simple, repeat, *simple* matter of choosing the programs you wish and saying install. No next, next, next, search, reboot, next, next, next mindless activities. The programs just install and I can go on with my business. 

So all of you winedoz fanboyz that say it is simpler to install programs under windows I say to you Ffffftt! 

Now if you have read this and are offended then all I can say is that I warned you. If you think I am blowing it out of my #$%&!@ then try it yourself before commenting. As I mentioned to someone earlier today. Things only seem complicated if you don't know what you are doing. 

Thus ends my rant. Have a nice day 

Source: Written by System Admin Locutus


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 2, 2007)

and let me add something:

linux's installer system is much more advanced, for example .deb packages. they ideally(read: in all good software) include full information about files, where they go, etc. Its also very secure, as compared to M$ idea of using exes, executables, for the install, which can easily be exploited. They also lack a database of software unlike ubuntu which provides almost all software you need in the add/remove tab under programs.


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## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

*I find Windows a lot easier than Linux*. 

I've never used Linux but I did try. I'm a *nix nOOb. Yeah. But I'm not a MS MVP either. 

I was ridiculed when I exclaimed: "So geeky! Anyway thanks for pointing it out. I'll refer that later on". The reply: "And will you stop saying 'geeky' to well explained step-by-step procedures? You just say it cause you haven't explored the interfaces as much as you have for Windows." 

What was geeky for me? This post.  I was wondering this long how you people manage things in Linux. 


I'm not going to say that I'm correct. I might be wrong. Linux _might_ be easy. _But for me Linux is geeky_. 


P.S: Installing things in OS X is a lot easier but that'll beg a different rant.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 3, 2007)

^^yea get what gets the job done for you.

But for the peeps who are always hungry for knowledge and who want complete control over their life() and who are not afraid to look for alternatives and don't believe in monopolies and who don't cry mommy mommy if one of their software refuses to install and who wants to stand out in a crowd and who are eventually the leaders of this world,Linux is a Must.


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## prasad_den (Dec 3, 2007)

To me, Windows is much easier than linux. I'm also a total noob in linux, and I have tried 4 different flavours (mandrake, FC4, ubuntu and mint). Everytime I made myself believe that I can soon get used to the linux environment and commands, but each time i failed miserably. I might be a slow learner, but the fact remains that a newbie will feel lost in all the "complexities" of linux..


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> who wants to stand out in a crowd and who are eventually the leaders of this world,Linux is a Must.


 i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux  he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> *I find Windows a lot easier than Linux*.
> 
> I've never used Linux but I did try. I'm a *nix nOOb. Yeah. But I'm not a MS MVP either.
> 
> ...


sorry drgrudge,  but its the command line way for the task. You can still use the graphical way, but people don't usually suggest it because graphical tools may vary, as people like customising linux distros a lot.

You can mount isos as drives via the Command Prompt, you know? but you still use daemon-tools. why? because you(and others) find the windows commandline very complicated. Linux command line is simple. You need to be only slightly geeky for linux commandline, whereas in windows you need to be an abusive geek to try working via Command Prompt.

It is due to that reason that commands are suggested. they often work for all systems, regardless of distros. They are also only slightly hard, nothing a 12 year old can't learn in 6 hours max.

that confused feeling in people is due to the lack of knowledge about how command line in linux works and what are the defaults and meanings of standard command line procedure listing. It will take you only a day or two even with 80 IQ to understand that logic.

In Simple Words:

please don't give examples of linux commandline and say that its more complicated than windows GUI. compare linux GUI to windows GUI then comment.

have a nice day


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux  he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration



Don't prove to us that your head is filled with bananas @iMav, if you got something useful to say, plz do. If you don't understand what people here are talking about, better ask someone..


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## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> ^^yea get what gets the job done for you.


We aren't in that territory as yet. Are we discussing how bad Linux is? Or Are we comparing OSes now? 


I sincerely wanted to install Linux in my PC. But I'm afraid to do so now.


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

at 1 end u say this is rant and then u tell me to talk sense ... man go have some bananas


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## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux  he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration


 rofl nice to know you idol(who you see as a leader).haha.He is the luckiest *(^*%&$* I have ever seen in my short life.Got an IQ of 92 heh.Clinton got an IQ of 192(or 182,I forgot).

And yes he has actually blown half of the world for god knows what.

@grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.


Damn,I make so many mistakes while typing


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

@drgrudge: I was just like you 6 months back, but now I feel it was the best desicion I ever made. Go with Ubuntu. First simple looks, explore around. then install softwares via add/remove. then synaptic. then some administration via the administration tab. then use deb packages. then install themes, customizations. Then learn to use Configure, Make, Make Install(gives the most perfect install). Then commandlines. You won't go wrong, trust me.


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> @grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.


 grudgy better commit suicide before doing that


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## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham - 
Thanks for explaining. But how I'm supposed to 'learn' them? 

Does *ALL* Linux Distros support out of the box net connectivity? Then why is the thread there? What if I dunno how to connect to Internet and need these command line things? 

But you do have a point when you say not to compare linux commandline and say that its more complicated than windows GUI. But I never compared Linux with Windows. All I said was Linux is geeky. Atleast it looks geeky. 

What do people expect after installing OS? It should work right away. What's the point if a .mp3 file is not playing? It's not Ubuntu's fault that it's not playing but how are the commom people supposed to know?


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> grudgy better commit suicide before doing that


don't try to stereotype images of linux in his mind just because you were a miserable failure. Sorry for the rudeness, but I think you have gone too far, farther than praka123 goes about linux, in your going about windows.


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## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

try writing one program to find a line containing a word in a file and then copy it to another file as output in windows 

Then come to linux and do it in one line command 



			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> don't try to stereotype images of linux in his mind just because you were a miserable failure. Sorry for the rudeness, but I think you have gone too far, farther than praka123 goes about linux, in your going about windows.


he was not a miserable failue at linux , he is just a nazi-fanatism victim of MS


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## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> @grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.


Don't tempt me to install Ubuntu in Mac. Can I try with the live CD? 

I might give another shot at Ubuntu (Xbuntu to be precise) with my PC. Watch out for my thread at OSS section.  

MetalheadGautham - 
Thanks for the encouragement. I might uninstall XP on my PC and see what I can do. 


iMav - 
Please get the <beep> out of here if you have nothing to say. Or nothing to troll atleast. Wanna get miserabled for a fortnight?


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## praka123 (Dec 3, 2007)

edit:formatted my post 
@grudge:you have to have some patience with Linux,take ur time to be comfy with the Linux GUI Desktop env Gnome or kde and the differences(again OS X is fully gui).will take some time i suppose  u have to learn to not expect similarities!

and Linux is easy and terminal is easy,even it got auto completion and in debian distros bash_completion completes most commands by pressing TAB key.i cant find how it is geeky.although i know that command.com is really geeky stuff!

Linux is NOT Windows and Neither OS X.Linux is a community product made and progressed by community and U cant complain about FOSS community for may be some tinkering which will be needed with few h/w.

I know it is tough bcoz with mac OS X and Windows series Operating Systems which are closed source and pressurized u to accept its EULA.

try reading the EULA what is written  and what i want to say is OS X and windows users are buying a service and demands everything to be fixed by the companies(ofcorz M$ doesnot fix any of its bugs asap!).yes,it is ur right to ask a company which sold a good to u under warranty to give solutions to ur problem

While Linux problems are explained and fixed by community members who are developers.I hope,if u get some spare time read below article very informative for windows users 
Linux is NOT Windows:
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

i thought this was a rant thread and so i was havingsome fun but now that u guys wanna talk some sense so lets talk sense:

Installing something in windows:

1. get the file - normally a exe
2. double click
3. follow the wizard which has normal steps like wheredo u want to install it to; what name u want and what serial no. and thats it
4. some applications might need u to restart (though i find no big deal in a simple restart)

Installing something in linux:

1. if ur using ubuntuget a .deb file which is not available for every application so u have to compile it
2. Now here is how u compile it
3. open terminal
4. go to the directory where the folder is
5. tar xvzf package.tar.gz (or tar xvjf package.tar.bz2)
6. cd package
7. ./configure
8. 6 out of 10 times u will get astupid library or package missing error here
9. go to synaptic if ur on ubuntu (if ur not God bless u)
10. Find the req repository/package/library
11. try form step7 again
12. ifa ll goes well then- make
13. theninstall make or whatever (i forgot the command)

there u have it 

Installing on osx: (the best feature in osx without doubt)

1. get the app
2. load the dmg
3. copy the app folder to the applications folder

but im not sure if u can choose any other location for installing apps in os x (dont know) 

Now the topic being windows and linux 1 can make his own decision  

and btw cyrus mind editing the first line of thread coz every1 wants to talk sense here


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> MetalheadGautham -
> Thanks for explaining. But how I'm supposed to 'learn' them?
> 
> Does *ALL* Linux Distros support out of the box net connectivity? Then why is the thread there? What if I dunno how to connect to Internet and need these command line things?
> ...



Download the ubuntu Live CD. On PC, if you want Xubuntu 7.10, you might also concider Ubuntu 7.04 like me(as I have 256 mb ram)

you might learn a distro by experiencing it. Just explore around in limited user mode. If you are asked for a password and you have no idea what you are doing, it means you need to click cancel.

actually, in India we have several types on net, many of which need simple configuration. in feisty with dataone broadband, go to windows, coppy all system settings in the net part, restart PC but don't off the modem, in ubuntu, go to administration tab, click network. fill in all these values, but select static IP/manual configuration(though its not). Restart modem to use net.

In ubuntu, you have a package called ubuntu-restricted-extras under the other section in the add/remove button at the bottom of the chart programs. It has java, codecs, flash, etc in it. its the one stop solution for removing the cripples from the ubuntu CD. but it works only with net, but hell, all have net. I asked  digit to give it+win32codecs in each issue, as its hardly 50 MB and very benificial to those without net wanting Ubuntu, but I have not seen any progress yet. People don't know this exists too.

As for linux's geekiness, the community maintained distro are always geeky(debian, gentoo, etc) because the only community which maintains a distro will be the geek community. they are for intermediate to advanced power users and require tweaks and hacks to make the install worthwile. But they are in the DIY linux motto, so you can't challenge them.

For simplicity for noobs, use a company sponcered distro like fedora(not recomended for PCs when ubuntu and SuSE exist), OPENSuSE, Ubuntu, etc. They, especially SuSE, feature lots of candy out of box. They are designed for migrators from windows.

Its not recomended by me to install linux in a Macintosh, because you already have an OS that is tailored for the Box(OS X) which is secure(like linux), can do lots of professional tasks(which linux can) and can safely browse the net. So linux will be a waste of space, as you already have a similar software in the MAC. there is not point in owning a MAC without OS X, so you can't remove it. Windows is needed on a Macintosh for gaming. Thats a damn good reason to have XP SP3 on a MAC. So unless you are a linux developer/fan/researcher/programmer, its no use to waste a MAC;s HDD space.

Linux however, is awssome on a PC, most specifically that average 30K intel twincore+GMA3100+64bit+1GBDDR2RAM PC that most budget buyers buy today, as they can run linux in maximum compability mode in full glory., and still have windows for gaming and running some software work demands.

Linux is used on old PCs only because while they can still run Win98SE, thats not secure and stable enough by today's standards, but you get an up to date secure linux distro for it. Just don't go and install ubuntu, suse, fedora, etc, as they will perform badder than XP in low configs(vista like setting minus 256 mb ram recomended for them). For old PCs, use only Xubuntu(128 ram recomended), Vector Linux(better install yum/apt in it), Damn Small Linux, etc. They can be secure, play movies/songs, browse net, run office apps, write CDs/DVDs, act as download rigs, etc. But gaming is pointless on these old timers. Only lan based chess, bridge, bingo, etc(which don't need comps anyway) can be played.

PS: sorry for long post and deviating from the original topic.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> i thought this was a rant thread and so i was havingsome fun but now that u guys wanna talk some sense so lets talk sense:
> 
> Installing something in windows:
> 
> ...



you have several softys for linux, compared to macintoshes, which have only a handful of softys.

so even if you sekect only the deb files, you still have tonnes of softys. don't try to act smart comparing mac to lin, which as I said in my post is pointless.

as for windows, exe install is not secure.

besides who told you you don't get .tar.gz files for windows too? you also get only the files od the program and you might need to do manual placing. you just don't look properly.

In linux you only see the alternative ways of installing stuff. you have deb, rpm and bin for installation. jar is there too. these are all very secure.

bin and jar need to be handled with care, but with unix style permissions in linux, it won't be a problem for intermediate to expert users even with untrusted software sources.

and most importantly, remember this:

you can install software by compiling in windows too, but its too complicated. you can go commandline in windows too, but its too complicated. thats why you have only GUIed exes for windows. The former options are very easy in linux, so you use them. Linux GUI is also very easy, but the previous methords are prefered for ease of informing others(commandline) and compatibility(compiling). you are not used to these stuff on windows because they are dead difficult. Let me see you try to compile lame on a fresh windows install.*


The only reason for all this is because windows is not as good as linux since windows 98. till 98, windows was only an addon to dos, in which all work could be done easily by that day's standards. but now they remove all the command line facilities from XP and tell its easy to use. what crazyness... windows can become accepted only if they revise the commandline and make it more secure. they can also bundle the M$ C/C++ compiler which is supposed to be very good. This can also be used to install softwares. Then you will know the reason linux was great. It evolved in commandline, the GUI was only an addon that can be changed and customised easily.*


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> you can install software by compiling in windows too, but its too complicated. you can go commandline in windows too, but its too complicated. thats why you have only GUIed exes for windows. The former options are very easy in linux, so you use them. Linux GUI is also very easy, but the previous methords are prefered for ease of informing others(commandline) and compatibility(compiling). you are not used to these stuff on windows because they are dead difficult. Let me see you try to compile lame on a fresh windows install.


 so in short for u typing lines of commands is easier than simply double clicking  and y do i need to compile anything ... i hav simple exe for everything  double click direct the installation and done simple enough as the title says as compared to what needs to do in linux


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> so in short for u typing lines of commands is easier than simply double clicking  and y do i need to compile anything ... i hav simple exe for everything  double click direct the installation and done simple enough as the title says as compared to what needs to do in linux



compatibility reasons force one to compile. a software compiled on your computer runs perfectly on it without any possible compatibility related defects. and yes, coppy pasting commands and pressing enter is nothing difficult compared to a double click. who says you have exes for every single thing? besides, who the heck told you that you MUST only use compiling and commands for linux softwares?

besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process. In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process. In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.


 just to remind this is not ur spoof article thread


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> just to remind this is not ur spoof article thread


and what do you mean by that?

PS: now I understand that you intend to get this topic locked by continuously attacking it and forcing me to use sticks.(If I had used some heavy artilary, or even a sword, you could not have posted again)


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> and what do you mean by that?


 i mean that wat uv written is absolute bs


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i mean that wat uv written is absolute bs


justify your statement


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download)


 only ubuntu has synaptic and with sites like download.com finding something is not difficult 


			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> then locating the file,


 u candefine where u want to dwonld 





			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> double clickin is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter.


 single clicking a few time tells me and allows me to define where i want to install the app notbeing restricted to wher theos wants to install it; security is proportional to ur common sense; copy-pating now this is the funny part to copy past u need to open a document whr the commands are there to copy from now finding this doc is more difficult  i know 1 can memorize the commands but now u explicitly mentioned copy pasting fearing that i wud pounce on u for making me meorize commands unfortuantely either ways u got pwned 


			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> allow you to stop/undo the process.


 a cancel button is there in every installer 





			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.


 again it depends on ur common sense


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

@metalhead, don't fight with the guy who himself knows nothing other than writing BS and blames others for writing BS.. lol..


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:
			
		

> @metalhead, don't fight with the guy who himself knows nothing other than writing BS and blames others for writing BS.. lol..


I agree we better ignore him, as he will get this thread locked and none can benifit from it.


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## prasad_den (Dec 3, 2007)

> besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process.



Seriously, try explaining this to a total noob. It might be easy for you, but really it isn't all that easy at all when one doesn't have an inkling of idea about command-line methods. Finding the right command from the huge list of commands is in itself a big task. I'm talking from experience here. You've got to see the learning curve here. Definitely windows (and maybe OSX too, I haven't used it) has a smaller learning curve than linux. 



> In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.



Please do not deviate from the topic. We're here to discuss exclusively whether windows or linux is easier. Security-wise anyone would agree linux is most safe.


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## x3060 (Dec 3, 2007)

yup . . i agree with that . . a lot of times i wished if there were EXE for Linux . . but then its something we have to get used to is it . . its a tight learning curve for one who is brought up with win.


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## The Conqueror (Dec 3, 2007)

I think Linux and Open Source is the future !
M$ already started losing market share. Not everyday is sunday, M$


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## Dark Star (Dec 3, 2007)

^^ Well whats upto you guys ... Linux is way better and if you say Windows Is Easy Linux iS hard in installing app's you must be kiddding me  See who will follow tha **** process that .exe file let u do .. Change the location Select Agreement and chosse type of install  Seesh .. Well these steps are ot involved so linux installer is better  and What for I use Windows ????????? What special it provides ? ???? games ...????? I can buy consoles  Well coming to topic Linux is the future and claiming that Linux is hard you can't get it working for you. Lemme tell you if you will give up in mind before trying you will fail for sure.. and The Title Should be Windows is crazy  while Linux is Smart  .. The best thing there is no Windows compter without a malicious files  now you will say I have blablah Antivirus lemme tel you do install any other and it will and viuce and versa .. Even I saw people with net get Virus which has no use of media and all.. I guess Environment Viruses too hate WIndows 
 Linux is ftw 

and .deb is way easier to install that .exe


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## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

Dark Star said:
			
		

> and .deb is way easier to install that .exe


 correct me if im wrong do all distros use deb and every linux program has a deb version 

a FUD post makes all the sense to u in the world but a proper reply .... should be ignored .... metalhead - wen nothing to reply use the age old escape route - this site is biased; ignore him this and that 

the first post in this thread is absolte FUD how abt correcting me and telling every1 who is wrong here

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=678243&postcount=19

&

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=678292&postcount=27

u are saying i will get the thread closed when the original poster has claimed it be a rant thread


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## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> correct me if im wrong do all distros use deb and every linux program has a deb version



Wrong!
what is linux?
linux is kernel, as you know there are many things required for a OS, you can't just call a kernel as a OS.this is where concept of a distro comes in play.
 different distro have different package mgt ways. some are also source based distros. so every distro used some or the other package mgt method.

like redhat - rpm
debian - deb
gentoo - ebuilts etc etc


so always use the package mgt by your distro. its lot easier to install softwares linux as in windows
like to install kde on ubuntu just click:Click me to install KDE & now windows procedure you listed



> Installing something in windows:
> 
> 1. get the file - normally a exe,
> 2. double click
> ...


[edit]
err....wait you listed it wrong lemme correct it
its the indian way to install a software, lets accept it, i have seen this
suppose you wanna install software named 'xyz', now the process is

1) do a google search on the softie2) go to its site & is its freeware(most unlikely )& download if its paid then search for a the app on some wares sites or p2p sites. now most of the time you are stuck as most common as most sites here are paid or offer you p0rn , now if luckily by chance you got a xzy softie from p2p watching p0rn pics & fighting low seeds problem. then
2) now do a virus check on the softie, oh my my definitions are out of date
3) update the anti virus, now you must be using pirated anti virus  so you can't update it
4) risk or security & privacy and run xzy.exe
5) 90/100 times you will infect your pc and now formatting it the only option
6) else if you are lucky and know a nice warez site which know one is going to tell you on internet,
 then install & apply a crack but applying a crack is also not so easy task many of my friends ask it to me daily how to apply a xyz patch:. then enjoy you xyz, else call your support engineer and ask him to format the pc
7) some users also use windows update. & then their copy is marked 
and they get " YOU ARE A THIEF, CONVERT TO ORIGINAL SOFTWARE ELSE LEGAL ACTION WILL BE TAKEN"
and don't forget delay in boot & reboot

linux is made for rock solid security & stability


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

^^ so much for something being easy ..... 

for ur question 1 comes to mind - pidgin 2.3

@gary: that was the point i was trying to make that dark star says deb is easier than exe but all lin distros dont have deb


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 3, 2007)

1. If you consider a average user with Little knowledge of Comps and which are used to Windows and generally have a slow or No internet connection then there is no competition for Windows. Reasons being it has inbuilt support for most popular formats. [MP3 License issues and blabla but what end user needs is that file to run without any hassles. Still MP* is very very popular format. Other are catching up but still no way near to compete as such.]

2. Installing softwares on a comp which has no internet connection is a nightmare for a average guy. For Windows thats not exactly a big prob.

3. Hardware support has improved but drivers are no where near as far as performance or availability is concerned. Main reason being not all Mfgers give Linux Drivers but Windows one is bare essential. Yes Windows doesnt have inbuilt drivers to an extent linux has but its DOESNT NEED it. ALl mfgers give away Windows optimised drivers anyways.

4. In case of no out of the box support for hardware that guy is in a whole lot of pain. It takes hell lot of probs to configure it. I used Linux for 3-4 years and not even once succeded in making a hardware work which wasnt supppported out of the box. [ I am no geek just a average user]

5. People who use Linux are generally ones who are 

a. on a low end PC where Windows seem to crawl.
b. What to try out the new OS.
c. Knowledge junkies.

No one tries linux to get something special done which cant be done on Windows. [Except for Programming and Database thing again which is a part geeks are more interested in and not average users.]

As far as dependancy issues are concerned please dont even compete with .rpm to .exe format. .deb is a good one I barely had any issues with them. [I used Debian ETCH earlier] but a bnig SORRY for RPM. That package management is improving but its still as good a junk in most cases. Dowloading and installing a .deb is 1000% easier than a .rpm. As far as windows is concerned I NEVER had any DEPENDANCY issues. NEVER.

Only thing Windows needs updated is DirectX and .Net

Both are available as a single file download and one click install.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> Installing something in linux:
> 
> 1. if ur using ubuntuget a .deb file which is not available for every application so u have to compile it
> 2. Now here is how u compile it
> ...


I haf a simpler way!

1) Goto www.getdeb.net and download the .deb installation file. You'll get most of your popular software here.
2) Double click on it to install.

Thats it! Lesser steps than even Mac OS X! 

In addition to it you also haf the sources. And during the past 1 year, I hafn't compiled a single program, I swear!

And I remember someone mentioning about Pidgin 2.3, get it here: *www.getdeb.net/release.php?id=1855



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> Installing something in windows:
> 
> 1. get the file - normally a exe
> 2. double click
> ...


My god! 4 steps! and you forgot the most time consuming step: Reading the EULA!!  

While I agree that not all distros use .deb but then if you are so paranoid about the simplest installation then you can always go wid a debian based distro. Its the best among all OS' (even Windows) when it comes to dependency handling. OSS is all about choice 

@Ashwin
I'm sure you will be able to install Linux. Believe me, its not tough. Most people vouch for command line just coz they are seasoned users. For all config tasks you haf GUI replacements.

Since you use your old computer only for downloading purpose I suggest you make it a headless computer (without a monitor/keyboard/mouse). Just install Xubuntu in that (even 7.04 would do, rather I'd recommend this version only!), and control this system via VNC or similar software thru your Mac. Just power it up and forget it! Do all admin tasks via Remote connection from your Mac


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ^^ so much for something being easy .....
> 
> for ur question 1 comes to mind - pidgin 2.3
> 
> @gary: that was the point i was trying to make that dark star says deb is easier than exe but all lin distros dont have deb


edited the post & now say...



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> 1. If you consider a average user with Little knowledge of Comps and which are used to Windows and generally have a slow or No internet connection then there is no competition for Windows. Reasons being it has inbuilt support for most popular formats. [MP3 License issues and blabla but what end user needs is that file to run without any hassles. Still MP* is very very popular format. Other are catching up but still no way near to compete as such.]


i agree you can play Mp3 in windows but what about others, you need to install a codec packs so in windows also a codec pack is necessary for a full multimedia experience. also there are distro like linux mint can play Mp3 & all the multimedia files you can imagine  



> 2. Installing softwares on a comp which has no internet connection is a nightmare for a average guy. For Windows thats not exactly a big prob.


well use aptoncd then say 



> 3. Hardware support has improved but drivers are no where near as far as performance or availability is concerned. Main reason being not all Mfgers give Linux Drivers but Windows one is bare essential. Yes Windows doesnt have inbuilt drivers to an extent linux has but its DOESNT NEED it. ALl mfgers give away Windows optimised drivers anyways.



its going to increase as more & more users start using it, currently is good as most hardware are supported


> 4. In case of no out of the box support for hardware that guy is in a whole lot of pain. It takes hell lot of probs to configure it. I used Linux for 3-4 years and not even once succeded in making a hardware work which wasnt supppported out of the box. [ I am no geek just a average user]



a average user in windows also uses services of a tech guy to configure, similar you can do it with linux


> 5. People who use Linux are generally ones who are
> 
> a. on a low end PC where Windows seem to crawl.
> b. What to try out the new OS.
> c. Knowledge junkies.


not true, i started linux because of pain finding cracks & viruses



> No one tries linux to get something special done which cant be done on Windows. [Except for Programming and Database thing again which is a part geeks are more interested in and not average users.]


there is a terms like efficiency, speeds & security & stability for that you have to use linux



> Only thing Windows needs updated is DirectX and .Net
> 
> Both are available as a single file download and one click install




did you forget defrag, registry cleaning,av virus ,firewall updates,spyware updates and last thing reading the new paper that there a some virus named kamasutra, which will infect your pc
and can't open any of your mail attachments
example:ntde1ect.com - the virus is irritating now check the solution given  

Isn't this geeky??



In the end Linux sucks but windows sucks more, as i say ALL OS SUCKS


----------



## Pathik (Dec 3, 2007)

Arey what is the point of such threads..?? Let everyone use the OS they are comfortable with.. Why are u all trying to convert others..?? 
Like I use XP for gaming, Vista/Gutsy for General/TP use and OS X for tp..


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> @Ashwin
> I'm sure you will be able to install Linux. Believe me, its not tough. Most people vouch for command line just coz they are seasoned users. For all config tasks you haf GUI replacements.


Hmm...the command lines stuffs scares me and maybe other first time users too. I'll try out Linux for sure again, sometimes next week. 




			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Since you use your old computer only for downloading purpose I suggest you make it a headless computer (without a monitor/keyboard/mouse). Just install Xubuntu in that (even 7.04 would do, rather I'd recommend this version only!), and control this system via VNC or similar software thru your Mac. Just power it up and forget it! Do all admin tasks via Remote connection from your Mac


No. My Mac runs almost 24/7. Net connection is in Mac not PC. Both in different rooms. 

But this remote desktop is tempting! If all goes right, then I might switch the net connection to PC and do the stuffs from Mac. Should be interesting if it goes right. I'll start a thread in OSS section soon. nOOb nation.


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

pathiks said:
			
		

> Arey what is the point of such threads..?? Let everyone use the OS they are comfortable with.. Why are u all trying to convert others..??
> Like I use XP for gaming, Vista/Gutsy for General/TP use and OS X for tp..


out of three at least one is pirated for sure, maybe windows also



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> Hmm...the command lines stuffs scare me and maybe other users too. I'll try out Linux for sure again, sometimes next week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you might be interested in making you pc as seedbox
How to build a low cost Linux Home Server

its for Kubuntu but you can also use ubuntu as well
best thing is format your HDD  & create one large home partion

get started now


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 3, 2007)

Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> 1. If you consider a average user with Little knowledge of Comps and which are used to Windows and generally have a slow or No internet connection then there is no competition for Windows.


 Agreed.Even Linux has no solution for stupidity.



> Reasons being it has inbuilt support for most popular formats. [MP3 License issues and blabla but what end user needs is that file to run without any hassles. Still MP* is very very popular format. Other are catching up but still no way near to compete as such.


 You guys will never understand.Mp3 licence costs $$ and they have no money to spend on unnecessary luxuries.M$ can ship mp3 codecs cos they charge you for windows.Its all due to piracy that you don't see the difference.



> 2. Installing softwares on a comp which has no internet connection is a nightmare for a average guy. For Windows thats not exactly a big prob.


 Cos magazines like digit are kind enough to provide you with all the necessary and a lot unnecessary softwares every month.But I agree linux package management requires more polishing.



> 4. In case of no out of the box support for hardware that guy is in a whole lot of pain. It takes hell lot of probs to configure it.* I used Linux for 3-4 years* and not even once succeded in making a hardware work which wasnt supppported out of the box. [ I am no geek just a average user]


 hard to believe.i am just 6-8 months old to linux and still can get all my hardware work in it(community helps a lot).



> 5. People who use Linux are generally ones who are
> 
> a. on a low end PC where Windows seem to crawl.
> b. What to try out the new OS.
> c. Knowledge junkies.


 This is interesting.heh.

a.I have a c2d,19'lcd and by no means a low end crawling system.
b.That I call eagerness to do something new,its against newton's laws but we are human beings not some physical objects.
c.Agreed.All I want is more knowledge.I can't tell you how much I want to learn but so less time.



> No one tries linux to get something special done which cant be done on Windows. [Except for Programming and Database thing again which is a part geeks are more interested in and not average users.]


 I am beginning to see what you mean by normal users---the stupid idiots who have baught a high end PC to watch movies,music and play games which could have been done better by a tv+dvd player+console and even at lesser prices.They don't want to know how\why things work but it should work.



> As far as dependancy issues are concerned please dont even compete with .rpm to .exe format. .deb is a good one I barely had any issues with them. [I used Debian ETCH earlier] but a bnig SORRY for RPM. That package management is improving but its still as good a junk in most cases. Dowloading and installing a .deb is 1000% easier than a .rpm. As far as windows is concerned I NEVER had any DEPENDANCY issues. NEVER.


 agreed partially.You know I recently downloaded a software source code to compile it on my own,it was just 350kb something while the windows exe file was about 6mb something.I hope you understand what I am trying to tell you,



> Only thing Windows needs updated is DirectX and .Net


 read gary's comment above.



> Both are available as a single file download and one click install.


 all thanks to winrar/winzip.heh.


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

pathiks said:
			
		

> Like I use XP for gaming, Vista/Gutsy for General/TP use and OS X for tp..


OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming? 

The UI is super cool. And I should tell you that it's damn productive. Tried (or atleast seen) Expose? I'm so in love with Mac that most of my future computers is going to be a Mac. 


gary4gar - 
That's what I planned earlier with my PC+Mac, but I lost patience little too soon. Hoping to set up a home server successfully.


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> gary4gar -
> That's what I planned earlier with my PC+Mac, but I lost patience little too soon. Hoping to set up a home server successfully.



thats because of your moody hardware, thats needs to listen to foobar songs before you can use internet, don't blam linux or yourself for it


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 3, 2007)

Im definitely no Mac user . I haven't had the luck to try it out other than helping some random person for Outlook. 



> OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?



Right click? Ok that was a stupid joke. None the less I know a few people  who use Macs and definitely most of them are very productive with their machine. One is an artist/writer , other person running a Press etc. I would love to try a Mac But I think the cost is kind of prohibiting me to jump in  

I believe someone ran Ubuntu on a Mac in this forum before. I think the persons name was Gnurag , I might be wrong so this so don't quote me on it .


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 3, 2007)

^^anybody can run ubuntu on any x86 or x64 machine.


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?


cut a bloody file


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

what this comment is suppose to mean


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

unfortunately finder does not allow u to cut a file/folder and paste in another drive 

right click->cut ....... right click-> paste - not there in os x


----------



## Pathik (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> OS X for Time Pass? :O Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?
> 
> The UI is super cool. And I should tell you that it's damn productive. Tried (or atleast seen)


That is the point.. The UI is so cool that i just keep seeing the UI wen i log in to OS X.. 
And whatever i can do in OS X, I can do better in XP/Gutsy/Vista..


----------



## mediator (Dec 3, 2007)

> What do people expect after installing OS? It should work right away. What's the point if a .mp3 file is not playing? It's not Ubuntu's fault that it's not playing but how are the commom people supposed to know?


 @Grudgy : Don't mind, but u talk like one of the MVPs here. 
Shud I ask in similar tone that people expect the zip,rar,office,security systems to be deployed out of box? What about ogg/ogm files, photoshop alternative  and readin linux partitions => out-of-box?

AFAIK, even in OSX u don't have office works out-of-box do u? But in *nix u have! I'm sure if u can spend extravagantly on OSX , then a moderate fee for a paid linux distro, which comes with all the goodies and proprietary stuff 'out-of-box' that u do not expect in OSX or windows which needs extra $$$, won't dent ur pocket.

Either u can be patient and Njoy the freely available stuff and customize it accordingly or pay a little comparatively if u don't want to do any homework. I guess u do far more homework on windows than on any OS!! 



> Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?


Compiling the kernel n whole OSX?  I dunno if u can do that!


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

Ah! I just had lunch....went to lucknow mahotsav today....

One long post coming up , need to freshen up my mind


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

^^^ You don't even need to pay that "modest" fee! Linux Mint, Ubuntu Ultimate etc. play almost everything out of the box!

@Ashwin
Since you haf an older PC I suggest you Install Xubuntu 7.04. Except the kernel don't update anything else from the update manager. Install it and forget it. AFAIK, you use dataone broadband thru lan. Thats very easy to setup. The only hiccup might your cdrom problem and GFX.

Regarding the command line, most users suggest commandline coz, as i said before, they are used to it. But believe me for 98% of the jobs you haf a GUI frontend. Its just that people suggesting you are more comfortable wid command line.

I don't remember who among the mac users has that kinda setup, but someone surely uses a limbless system as 24x7 download/mail server.

Ontopic: I've faced problems in installing software in windows as well as linux. I can't say that linux has the best package management or windows has the easiest installation method.

One software I use in windows requires .net 1.0 rt first then .net 1.1 and then .net 2.0 to be installed in that order. I had to download a lot for that. Yet another linux software wanted one version of library while another software wanted the same library but previous version. So both haf their share of problems.

What I say is that you can compare only the concepts across OS' but not the way of working. You can say word processor X lacks spell check while Y has it. This is a perfectly valid comparison.

But saying that software X sux coz the spell check is in Tools menu while Y rocks coz spell check is on the toolbar is completely absurd! And thats what most people here do. Windows is not Linux and Linux is not Windows!

Edit: Aah yes, thats superczar! Thanks for the link Gaurish.


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> I would love to try a Mac But I think the cost is kind of prohibiting me to jump in


I got my MBP for Rs 72k. Including 4 Gb iPod Nano ($200, dunno how much in here) and a Samsonite carry case ($40; Rs 1800 in Chennai). 

It's no VFM but for the configuration I got and not to mention the *original* killer OS it didn't seem that expensive as perceived. 




			
				iMav said:
			
		

> cut a bloody file


I must admit that in the beginning, It's irritating, but I got to it. OS X got no cut-paste. Hmm.. it's OK with me. If I'm right if you press cmd and do operations, it's equivalent to cut-paste. 




			
				pathiks said:
			
		

> That is the point.. The UI is so cool that i just keep seeing the UI wen i log in to OS X..


So true.   You'll never miss your GF again. 



			
				pathiks said:
			
		

> And whatever i can do in OS X, I can do better in XP/Gutsy/Vista..


Isn't this subjective? I don't think it's OS X's limitation or lack of feature that affected your productivity. Seems you got an issue with the OS. 




			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Shud I ask in similar tone that people expect the zip,rar,office,security systems to be deployed out of box? What about ogg/ogm files, photoshop alternative and readin linux partitions => out-of-box?


No issues with zip, rar, mp3, .doc, .xls, .ppt, .ogg/.ogm files all just after you start your new Mac. There are a few PhotoShop alternatives/Image Editors but you need to download them (OSS or Freewares). Does the 700 MB Ubuntu come with all these apps? (Asking out of curiosity). 
Security systems? What do you mean? I have no condoms with XP, why would I have something installed on a Mac? 




			
				mediator said:
			
		

> AFAIK, even in OSX u don't have office works out-of-box do u? But in *nix u have! I'm sure if u can spend extravagantly on OSX , then a moderate fee for a paid linux distro, which comes with all the goodies and proprietary stuff 'out-of-box' that u do not expect in OSX or windows which needs extra $$$, won't dent ur pocket.


I got both MS Office 2004 as well as iWorks installed. Both not a freeware. But within the 30 days you can either switch to NeoOffice (Freeware) or Open Office (OSS). Also even in the Mac thread and some other thread I've posted I don't care for Office suites right now. Maybe I would want to open .doc, but you got many OSS/Freeware Mac softwares.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

good to see that this thread is heating up. cyrus, you are missing all the action
anyway, ontopic: ffrom what many people say about linux, about each distro being different and all that, I say only this: why the **** are you too dumb then to be able to choose what you want?

and warning for all would be linux users: linux is ment for those who know what a computer is, and who know some serious stuff about it. This even a standard 13 year old knows in these times, but if you are not in the catogary, I beg you to shy away from linux.

Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.

if you are not in the above catogary, go ahed and use some other OS. Have no regrets.


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 3, 2007)

Desktop High End Systems are mainly used for gaming only. No one is stupid to spend so much $$ just to use Office applications and Internet. If you use high end systems for Graphics / Video Edits then windows has more sofisticated softwares [Y they cost $$ but they are better]
If you are trying to say that people who invest in High End PCs for Entertainment and Gaming then you must understand its upto ones choice.

I wont call any one "idiot" for having a high end PC for gaming. PC gaming helds its own. If Console gaming is good but does a console allows you to run Movie DVDs? Plug it to latest speaker systems? Capture TV Shows / Video Edits? PC has multiple advantages. [How they are being used is upto the user]

I still say average user cant get a unsupported hardware to work on linux.

The reasons I mentioned for people who use Linux. Read the Line. "GENERALLY" & not always.

Stability is a old issue which died with XP SP2. I crashed more on Linux 7.04 trying to start my cam than all Windows events of crashes since I bought it. 

When I tried to Install Debian Etch on my new system it crashed my HDD twice. I lost all ****ing data. Its not that I never installed Linux before and made some **** with partitioning. When it comes to unsuported hardware Linux is CRP. In worst case is gfx card is not supported then the dreaded No screens found error. Then tell me how "easy" it is for a Average guy to install a Driver for it to get it working from command line with no internet?

I also know apt-on-cd ****. But is there a .iso for download?

Go through the steps of making a CD for apt on CD **** and compare it with Windows.

Getting hardware to work thingy: Well I got 8600 GT and even a jack ass knows that it has 3D support. No linux distro with built in driver was able to even detect it apart from 7.04 and Mandriva 08. 7.04 doesnt even let me go pass 800 x 600. and yes no 3D Desktop effects as  hardware doesnt have 3D support.??? 

Then go to nVidia site for drivers with a big **** manual for nVidia Way of Install also if this is not enough then there is also THe "Distro" way of installing it. All i need on Windows is double click the setup. NO purge **** for old drivers is needed as it replaces them all together. No kernel compile or Kernel Modules stuff needed.

Defrag probs is no longer as grave when NTFS came.

Offcourse more malware for Windows. Its most used system. If Linux had a 80% + Share in Desktops then I bet it had the same Fate.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> There are a few PhotoShop alternatives/Image Editors but you need to download them (OSS or Freewares). Does the 700 MB Ubuntu come with all these apps? (Asking out of curiosity).


yep a standard 700mb gutsy gibbon comes with-F-spot photo manager,gthumb image viewer,Xsane image scanner,and of course the all powerful gimp.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.


Aah haa... I'd like to correct this sentence!

GNU/Linux is not for those who want it to be "like" Windows[period]

I know many people with a "fully" functional brain and also many fools who use Linux!


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain.
> 
> if you are not in the above catogary, go ahed and use some other OS. Have no regrets.


rant blah blah rant windows users know sh1t abt comps they are average and know nothing abt it  lin users made windows the most widely used OS; lin users made ps; lin users made office; lin users made corel; lin users made nvidia cards; lin users made intel chips ... lin users made eveyrthing they are very smart  ok metal we know all this something on topic


----------



## praka123 (Dec 3, 2007)

OK.Fine go,stick to ur vsita!u are not able to cross the learning curve.  also try to stop whining!


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 3, 2007)

lol imav Ok I also prefer to use windows to Linux but you are one Hardcore Windows fan [Its rare ]


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> If you use high end systems for Graphics / Video Edits then windows has more sofisticated softwares [Y they cost $$ but they are better]


 This point is absolutely correct! This is where OSS lacks. Even Macs haf apps for that.



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> If Console gaming is good but does a console allows you to run Movie DVDs? Plug it to latest speaker systems? Capture TV Shows / Video Edits? PC has multiple advantages.


 Except the last point, a console can do everything else you've asked for!



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> I still say average user cant get a unsupported hardware to work on linux.


 Fully agree with you on this 



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Stability is a old issue which died with XP SP2. I crashed more on Linux 7.04 trying to start my cam than all Windows events of crashes since I bought it.


 Stability is still an issue with Windows!! Yes, even with Vista + supported hardware [Personal experience]



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> When I tried to Install Debian Etch on my new system it crashed my HDD twice. I lost all ****ing data. Its not that I never installed Linux before and made some **** with partitioning. When it comes to unsuported hardware Linux is CRP.


 All "HDDs" are supported! Only problem can be with newer SATA controllers and ACPI, in which case I agree with you. But all the newer distros haf overcome his problem. Even WinXP needs SATA drivers or else it won't install.  



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> In worst case is gfx card is not supported then the dreaded No screens found error. Then tell me how "easy" it is for a Average guy to install a Driver for it to get it working from command line with no internet?


 How do you get a similar hardware (unsupported) to work in Windows without an internet connection? Don't temme someone posts you the driver code and you make a driver sitting at home and voila! even unsupported hardware can be installed in Windows without internet!!!  Whether its windows or linux, getting unsupported hardware to work requires an internet connection. The configuration however is more in Linux as compared to Windows.



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> I also know apt-on-cd ****. But is there a .iso for download?


 Sorry, didn't get you.



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Go through the steps of making a CD for apt on CD **** and compare it with Windows.


 Now I'm sure you haf NEVER made an .iso with Apt-On-CD!!!



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Getting hardware to work thingy: Well I got 8600 GT and even a jack ass knows that it has 3D support. No linux distro with built in driver was able to even detect it apart from 7.04 and Mandriva 08. 7.04 doesnt even let me go pass 800 x 600. and yes no 3D Desktop effects as  hardware doesnt have 3D support.???


 My friend as the exact same card and Ubuntu detects it just fine! However, he wanted the "performance" nVidia driver so he installed it separately.

But temme one thing, be very frank! Do you use the default Windows driver for your 8600GT and not the nVidia Forceware? Plz answer this question truthfully!



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Then go to nVidia site for drivers with a big **** manual for nVidia Way of Install also if this is not enough then there is also THe "Distro" way of installing it. All i need on Windows is double click the setup. NO purge **** for old drivers is needed as it replaces them all together. No kernel compile or Kernel Modules stuff needed.


 Ever heard of envy or automatix?



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Defrag probs is no longer as grave when NTFS came.


 True NTFS is better than FAT in this case, but journel based FS is best! (HFS+/ext/reiser etc.)



			
				Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> If Linux had a 80% + Share in Desktops then I bet it had the same Fate.


 I seriously doubt about you saying you've used GNU/Linux for "4-5 years"!! Unix-System Like OS' haf a completely different structure. They are implemented in a way which is no where like Windows.

I'm SORRY I was rude to you while replying to some of your excerpts above (at least I think so that I was rude), but those doubts/opinions which you posted didn't make any sense at all!


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> lol imav Ok I also prefer to use windows to Linux but you are one Hardcore Windows fan [Its rare ]


 its not my support for windows or that i hate linux or os x i dont hate them but its the not required show of absolute ignorant arrogance by both linux and os x users and un-necessary bashing of anything associated with MS  their thinking that any1 using windows is inferior to them is what pisses me off more than the OS


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 3, 2007)

^^ +1 "providedin most cases"

ps: I will answer in detail tommorow as I am off to home now. I felt a bit offended by that earlier post so I ended up using some words I shouldnt have 

Well good night for now


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

> I just recently installed MSDE and its associated web data admin on a freshly installed, fully updated windows XP.


 
wrong, this is a lie. A fully updated Windows XP means the user updated using Windows Update as that is how u get to know about all the updates applicable to your computer. If that was the case, then .net 1.1 & 2.0 runtime are already shown in optional updates...so technically the computer was not "Fully updated"



> Find out that I had to supply a command line switch.


 
This step is required if u want to use some extra installation tweaks, like silent installation or noreboot etc, so this is not required in case of 99% on the installations



> linux's installer system is much more advanced, for example .deb packages. they ideally(read: in all good software) include full information about files, where they go, etc.


  They [/QUOTE]

The recommended Microsoft way of installation is not exe, but it is Windows installer based MSI. I m not going to write advantage of Microsoft Installer over NSIS or Installsheiled (which uses MSI now) here, as tht will be quite big to type.



> Its also very secure, as compared to M$ idea of using exes, executables, for the install, which can easily be exploited.


 
Can u lock a deb file from extraction & modification, U can't. however u can lock a MSI from any further modification & extraction. So u r wrong & MS way of installer is secure.



> also lack a database of software unlike ubuntu which provides almost all software you need in the add/remove tab under programs


 
Holy f***ll.... Then what the hell is Add remove progrma in Windows since Windows 98. Seriously boy have u ever used Windows? 



> You need to be only slightly geeky for linux commandline, whereas in windows you need to be an abusive geek to try working via Command Prompt.


 
Yeah...that's why Comman line in Windows is next to unexistant.



> grudgy better commit suicide before doing that


 
Lolz...



> Linux however, is awssome on a PC, most specifically that average 30K intel twincore+GMA3100+64bit+1GBDDR2RAM PC that most budget buyers buy today, as they can run linux in maximum compability mode in full glory., and still have windows for gaming and running some software work demands.


 
Wait, If you have such High end PC then why work on Linux to get it to work & face lack of features in software like automatic fetching of id3 tags in amarok etc...when u can simply install Vista on it & start right away. R U trying to say that Linux will work on the latest hardware in full glory (With limited drivers) but Windows won't run in full glory (with full driver support)



> as for windows, exe install is not secure.


 
Care to explain how? This is the first time i m hearing something like this.



> In linux you only see the alternative ways of installing stuff. you have deb, rpm and bin for installation. jar is there too. these are all very secure.


 
How? U can simply extract a deb or jar file, edit & modify the files & commands in it & repack it, how is this secure? In case of Windows installer, like I said before u can lock the package.



> you can install software by compiling in windows too, but its too complicated.


 
What? Last I found...net apps compile themselves automatically using ngen.exe without any user interaction.



> compatibility reasons force one to compile. a software compiled on your computer runs perfectly on it without any possible compatibility related defects.


 
This is why .net was made. Not only it is easy to make apps for Windows easier in .net but it also optimizes the software for your machine hardware once installed.



> who says you have exes for every single thing?


 
Tell me a single application which doesn't have exe in Windows . (Note : Java apps need not apply)

Gautam & Cyrus...seriously, go & study Windows for Dummies. U guys are talking insane things about Windows which are 90% wrong.



> The best thing there is no Windows compter without a malicious files


 
Lolz...then what the hell i m running here 



> 1. get the file - normally a exe,
> 2. double click
> 3. follow the wizard which has normal steps like wheredo u want to install it to; what name u want and what serial no. and thats it
> 4. some applications might need u to restart (though i find no big deal in a simple restart


 
Hmm..which method do u think provides more control to the user? Linux installes in the apps folder. Well, in Windows I can select where to install, what to install...how to install. Does Linux provides this kind of control in synaptic.?

I use ACDSee 9 (Example), when installing in Windows I selected not to use many file format plugins which I don't need, I selected not to install the device detector plugin etc...when I installed Picasa in Linux using the deb I was never given an option not to install the online resources links like upload to blogger etc, even when I tried to install Pidgin, I was not given the option not to install suppor for Gadu gadu or Jabber (Cos I don't use them).

Windows way is made for Windows. Get used to it, it gives the user full control over what to install, where to install & how to install. Have a look at Winamp installer, it only installes what u want unlike Exaile which installes so many dependencies which don't even uninstall once i remove exaile.



> agree you can play Mp3 in windows but what about others, you need to install a codec packs


 
Just like Linux, Microsoft isn't the one making DivX codec, so they cannot bundle it else DivX will sue them like real network sued MS saying "Since MS gives WMP inbuilt, no one uses our sh1T player"



> a average user in windows also uses services of a tech guy to configure, similar you can do it with linux


 
Wait,...what? Ever used Windows online hardware database?



> did you forget defrag, registry cleaning,av virus ,firewall updates,spyware updates


 
Lets see, defragmentor is given in windows already. Registry cleaning is usually not that important. AV is not required in most cases, Firewall is already there, Windows update is enabled by default, Windows defender protects automatically.



> Tell me what Windows/*nix can do which OS X can't do except gaming?


 
U can't make the OS work the way u want, u can't customise & screw the OS like Vishal & sashwat did with Windows & Linux



> Shud I ask in similar tone that people expect the zip,rar,office,security systems to be deployed out of box? What about ogg/ogm files, photoshop alternative and readin linux partitions => out-of-box?


 
Zip works out of the box in Windows & is the most widely used compression format despite of WinRAR superiority.

What is the market share & demand for OGG/OGM Files? If consumers ask for it, MS will provide support in built.

Photshop alternative???????????? tell me a single home user who needs a full blown image editor like Photoshop? Paint is good enough to start with & Paint.net...welll, different story.



> Compiling the kernel n whole OSX?  I dunno if u can do that!


 
No need to, it compiles & automatically optimises itself during Installation, something Windows Vista copied from Mac OS X (I agree, MS copied this good feature)



> why the **** are you too dumb then to be able to choose what you want?


 
Because there are 10000 distro's out there & each has something better then the other, but none has all-in-one features. 

Slax has the best Application installation method in Linux.

Linspire Click & run is the best online installer...

No linux has both of these features in it.



> and warning for all would be linux users: linux is ment for those who know what a computer is, and who know some serious stuff about it. This even a standard 13 year old knows in these times, but if you are not in the category, I beg you to shy away from linux.
> 
> Linux is Not For Fools. Its for those with a fully functional brain


 
How old r u? 12?.....You mean the whole 3D animation industry, forensic industry, movies, audip production industry, TV industry, racing cars...cricket data, news channel broadcast is run by fools? Gautam...u seriously need to to check a psychiatrist 

@ Tech wiz...

Nice logical answers, but keep an eye on the language too.



> yep a standard 700mb gutsy gibbon comes with-F*-spot photo manager,gthumb image viewer*,Xsane image scanner,and of course the all powerful gimp.


 
No, wrong.



> OK.Fine go,stick to ur vsita!u are not able to cross the learning curve.  also try to stop whining!


 
Why learn? We just want to open our computer & do our work like chat with gals, or edit a picture or watch porn. Why learn about how to do these things.



> How do you get a similar hardware (unsupported) to work in Windows without an internet connection?


 
You get a driver CD.


----------



## Pathik (Dec 3, 2007)

^^ Oh F**k.. GX back in full form. bohot dino baad itna bada post dekha..


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 3, 2007)

> I got my MBP for Rs 72k. Including 4 Gb iPod Nano ($200, dunno how much in here) and a Samsonite carry case ($40; Rs 1800 in Chennai).
> 
> It's no VFM but for the configuration I got and not to mention the *original* killer OS it didn't seem that expensive as perceived.



Interesting, but does that cost include the cost of your office software you mentioned earlier ? Nonetheless I like the way those laptops look  . Maybe in some future time I will definitely try it out and if Mac doesnt work out for me Ill try ubuntu on it ! Out of curiosity have you ever had to have After sales support. Just curious what would you do if the processor blew a cylinder or something  . Are its parts readily available? 

Ill agree with iMav with one thing though. I dont see how using a Windows XP/Vista box makes a person average/ignorant etc. One choice of his software is his freedom. 



> Ever heard of envy or automatix?


I wouldnt recommend this to anyone. Althoug it works for some , many have found that it goes bad and when I mean bad I mean as *very bad* 




> When it comes to unsuported hardware Linux is CRP.


When it comes to unsupported hardware all OS sucks. 

I have only crashed once so far on Linux so I guess it pretty much based on the hardware you are using. I used the same system to install Vista (original version) and from my experience it never worked.



> I also know apt-on-cd ****. But is there a .iso for download?


  If you are talking about the package thern you just need to run sudo apt-get install aptoncd . if you are talking about the ISO to install then if you go to the opensource forum theres a thread just for the same purpose of helping folks get AptOnCD iso's. the ones there are mainly 32 bit if you need the AMD64 ones give me a call or message or something. 



> Go through the steps of making a CD for apt on CD **** and compare it with Windows.



Whats the difficulty you faced? Just to be clear AptOnCd is just an extra convience you can back up those files even without it. Check the thread mentioned above to see what Im talking about. 



> Getting hardware to work thingy: Well I got 8600 GT and even a jack ass knows that it has 3D support



I am using an XFX 8600 GT on Ubuntu 7.10 I do my work on and it seems to be able to run any gfx effects at any quality. I havent used Mandriva but Im amazed that it wouldnt detect it. Ive heard that Mandriva includes excellent H/w support. I might be wrong though. 

prakash I would like to hear more about Debian distributions. been thinking of joing the cult. Not that I have a problem with Ubuntu of course. but I havent seen much information about it on this forum especially considering that Ubuntu is a Debain Derivative. Will start a new thread with my doubts for that.


Edit---------------------------------------------------



> face lack of features in software like automatic fetching of id3 tags in amarok



I think you need something called Musicbrainz or Picard . Not sure is this is the right name but you might want ot check. 



> Windows way is made for Windows.



To end your confusion may I rephrase what you said. Windows way is made for Windows. Linux way is made for Linux. Os X way is for Os X.


----------



## mediator (Dec 3, 2007)

gx said:
			
		

> Zip works out of the box in Windows & is the most widely used compression format despite of WinRAR superiority.
> 
> What is the market share & demand for OGG/OGM Files? If consumers ask for it, MS will provide support in built.
> 
> Photshop alternative???????????? tell me a single home user who needs a full blown image editor like Photoshop? Paint is good enough to start with & Paint.net...welll, different story.


1000s of orkut users, kids as well, keep on editing their pics. U think they r professionals? U think paint can accomplish all that? Bizarre! Some like editing and who wants to buy photoshop when a huge 5000+ bucks windows OS cant give it to u besides a 'file delete' problem 'out-of-box'! 5000+ bucks is like looting gullible users like u for an unworthy OS that cannot give u even 30% of daily use utilties and desktop experience 'out-of-box'!!

And about OGM/ogg, readin linux partitions etc I guess we had given our requests in the thread created by the "MVP". But still no luck!! WTH!



> its not my support for windows or that i hate linux or os x i dont hate them but its the not required show of absolute ignorant arrogance by both linux and os x users and un-necessary bashing of anything associated with MS  their thinking that any1 using windows is inferior to them is what pisses me off more than the OS


Some may be doin it. But its nuthing compared to what Steve Ballmer does! He is the King of the FUDs u know! So trolling in front of him similarly i.e in front of "Steve" might get u a "Job". Don't mind, was just rhyming!


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> author said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Firstly @gx, I'm not the one who wrote this article, please refer the source. You are as ignorant as anybody can get by assuming such things. You know why? That's because the guy who wrote the article has has been a system admin with over 17yrs of Networking with windows management. And you a 21yr old kid come in here and try to prove someone with as much experience as your whole lifetime wrpmg! You know what @gx, I'm not going to take one more word you say seriously, because all this just shows how ignorant you are with the attitude that you know everything under the sun and everyone else here are fools when you don't really know anything and honestly just showing how much of a Win fanboy you are. cheers... peace out..

Below is the Authors experience in the IT sector:

*Expertise*
Programming C++ - 7 Years    
Linux Management - 8 Years
Programming VB - 15 Years    
Networking - 17 Years
Windows Management - 17 Years
Source


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

another rant post .... blah blah blah

cyrus u got something of ur own on the topic to speak abt wat gx said or i said .... no then y take the pains to giv us arbitrary lectures save em for ur kids


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 3, 2007)

i predict this thread will be locked soon


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Holy f***ll.... Then what the hell is Add remove progrma in Windows since Windows 98. Seriously boy have u ever used Windows?



Windows doesn't list the software "available" to you. It only lists what is installed on the system unlike Ubuntu's Add / Remove or SPM. I think that's what he meant by "... all the softwares you *need*... "


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 3, 2007)

^^^^^^^^^ Imav 

here is the picture of my Original Windows XP CD Along with my College ID card.

Show US the copy of your XP CD !!! or Vista ! 

The CD Is Original and since its a holographic CD you also see the refection of  my hand and camera taking its picture !
see the date .. took it just now ..! taken from k550i phone.. so u can't make much .. but atlest my college and date and phone .. !! view the picture details in some software and you know its my phone !
*
Show US your Copy .. lets all see how much you really respect and appreciate  MS
* 
Click for larger view

*img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/5/12/3/t_DSC00057film_de8406e.jpg


----------



## mediator (Dec 3, 2007)

gx said:
			
		

> No need to, it compiles & automatically optimises itself during Installation, something Windows Vista copied from Mac OS X (I agree, MS copied this good feature)


Wud like to read more on this please!


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> ^^^^^^^^^ Imav
> 
> *Show US your Copy .. lets all see how much you really respect and appreciate  MS*



How can he show you one when he's using a pirated version which he himself declared to be proud of using. sigh....


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:
			
		

> How can he show you one when he's using a pirated version which he himself declared to be proud of using. sigh....



1. i got better things to do than fulfilling some 19 year old kid's wishes (im not ur father's servant to show u this and that) i giv a rats a$$ if he wrks in the anti-piracy dept  if u have something on the topic talk else dont coz this is a rant thread where grudgy wants to talk sense and will ban people who dont obey his orders 

2. could u (cyrus) tell me show me where iv said "proudly" that i use pirated softwares ....


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Interesting, but does that cost include the cost of your office software you mentioned earlier ?


No way MS Office 2004 (for Mac) and iWorks is full licensed. Those are full feature 30 day trail. 

I got Original License of iLife '08 and OS X 10.4.10 "Tiger" only with the MBP. Otherwise the machine has out of the box usability for all the common tasks. 




			
				exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity have you ever had to have After sales support.


All Macs come with One Year International Warranty. 3 service centers (2 for Laptops and 1 for iPods) in Chennai. Dunno abt other places in India. 




			
				exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Just curious what would you do if the processor blew a cylinder or something  . Are its parts readily available?


No, parts are not available. OK, J/K.  

They'll replace your Mac. No questions asked if it happens to be under warranty.  


The cult of Mac is for a reason.


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> 1. i got better things to do than fulfilling some 19 year old kid's wishes (im not ur father's servant to show u this and that) i giv a rats a$$ if he wrks in the anti-piracy dept  if u have something on the topic talk else dont coz this is a rant thread where grudgy wants to talk sense and will ban people who dont obey his orders
> 
> 2. could u (cyrus) tell me show me where iv said "proudly" that i use pirated softwares ....


 1>
You know what @iMav, you're just a piece of sh$%. Do you know why? Because first of all, you keep answering questions not directed at you and try to save @gx, ass, and when we do ask you a question, you don't reply and say that you give a 'rats a$$' as to whether you use pirated versions or not!

2.> When we ask you to post something, and because you obviously can't post it, you say that you are not going to waste your so called "precious useless time" to post anything and then you blame us for your ignorance and ask us to post things??

Well, we're not like you and hence I wasted my time searching for your thread in which you said you use "PIRATED WINDOWS XP" for the last 4 years.


			
				iMav said:
			
		

> pirated xp here never updated in the past 4 yrs wrks like a charm


 This can be found here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=668707&postcount=41

Does this prove that you are nothing but a LIAR??

You are time and again proving to us that you are nothing but a useless Windows FANBOY!! 

Accept it, you are one fanboy, do you know why?

First of all, you dont' own a legal copy of windows
Second you say every other sofware is crap because it's free as if you've paid for something
Thirdly, you keep arguing about things you have no idea about and answer questions not directed to you.
*
@drgrudge*, this guy is really getting on my nerves, please advise him not to post any more crap and stay to the point and stop answering questions that we ask someone else and stop lying.

I'm not going to waste my time fighting with a jack a%@ FANBOY like you and get myself banned for telling what you really are. I can't believe how other members have been tolerating this guy for so long?

It would be better if this thread is locked as the points keep repeating on deaf ears.


----------



## iMav (Dec 3, 2007)

ah ya my desktop has xp pirated  coz i had i bought it 4 years ago

my vista on the desktop is orignal & so is the 1 on my lappy 


@drgrudge, this guy is really getting on my nerves, please advise him not to post any more crap and stay to the point and stop answering questions that we ask someone else.

I'm not going to waste my time fighting with a jack a%@ FANBOY like you and get myself banned for telling what you really a


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 3, 2007)

lol .. that is insane
i can't understand anything ... !


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> The recommended Microsoft way of installation is not exe, but it is Windows installer based MSI. I m not going to write advantage of Microsoft Installer over NSIS or Installsheiled (which uses MSI now) here, as tht will be quite big to type.


 But someone here said .exe s are easiest to install. Nobody meantioned MSI



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Can u lock a deb file from extraction & modification, U can't. however u can lock a MSI from any further modification & extraction. So u r wrong & MS way of installer is secure.


 Agree with this point of yours 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Then what the hell is Add remove progrma in Windows since Windows 98. Seriously boy have u ever used Windows?


 Apart from the name of the program, what other info does it provide?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yeah...that's why Comman line in Windows is next to unexistant.


 If you ask me, a person who's used MS OS since the dayz of DOS 5.0 and who knows batch programming, I'd say Windows CLI is the easiest! But when it comes to control and power windows/dos cli stands no where near OSS shells.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Wait, If you have such High end PC then why work on Linux to get it to work & face lack of features in software...


 Get over the misconception that the target audience of Linux are only low end hardware users.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What? Last I found...net apps compile themselves automatically using ngen.exe without any user interaction.


 What percentage of windows apps are .net based as of today????



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ...but it also optimizes the software for your machine hardware once installed.


 This is really a good feature incorporated into the .net platform.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tell me a single application which doesn't have exe in Windows. (Note : Java apps need not apply)


 And you were suggesting in the first line that .exe s are NOT the preferred way to install apps!! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Gautam & Cyrus...seriously, go & study Windows for Dummies.


 I support GX regarding this. Many of the points mentioned by you two were invalid, in my opinion.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...then what the hell i m running here


 You are running a windows system which needs an over-alert user to:

1) not install active-x controls
2) carefully click each link
3) monitor every in-coming and out-going file
4) double checking all registry imports
5) and I guess many more such precautions... 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Hmm..which method do u think provides more control to the user? Linux installes in the apps folder. Well, in Windows I can select where to install, what to install...how to install. Does Linux provides this kind of control in synaptic.?


 Definitely +1 for windows method!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I use ACDSee 9 (Example), when installing in Windows


Oh, how much did you buy this for!?? 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Windows way is made for Windows.


Exactly! Don't complain that Mac OS X/GNU/Linux is NOT like Windows!!! Coz Windows way is made for Windows, things are different in other OS! Get used to it and stop complaining!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Just like Linux, Microsoft isn't the one making DivX codec, so they cannot bundle it....


 Then plz stop saying that "certain" Linux distros don't provide mp3 support out of the box, while an equal number of distros DO provide it!

As you guys always say, isn't it all about the customer? The end user wants his mp3s to play out of the box in Linux, which don't; the end user also wants his divx movies/real media files to play out of the box, which don't! So isn't it the fault of GNU/Linux and Windows, both?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lets see, defragmentor is given in windows already. Registry cleaning is usually not that important.


 This is the whole point; that you require all these in a Windows system!! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> AV is not required in most cases, Firewall is already there, Windows update is enabled by default, Windows defender protects automatically.


  Man, you are one funny guy!!    I mean.. lolz.. no comments!!! (except the third point, which is valid!)



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> U can't make the OS work the way u want, u can't customise & screw the OS like Vishal & sashwat did with Windows & Linux


 Very valid point about Mac OS X.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *If consumers ask for it, MS will provide* support in built.


 Do you want me to remind you about "your thread"?? 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Photshop alternative???????????? tell me a single home user who needs a full blown image editor like Photoshop? Paint is good enough to start with & Paint.net...welll, different story.


 Very logical and valid point 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Slax has the best Application installation method in Linux.
> 
> Linspire Click & run is the best online installer...
> 
> No linux has both of these features in it.


This is purely your opinion while I'm happy with Debian base. It gives me everything I need. Never caused a problem 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> No, wrong.


 Plz do not say this anywhere else!! If you say that Ubuntu doesn't come with _F*-*spot photo manager,gthumb image viewer,Xsane image scanner,and of course the all powerful gimp, _people will ridicule you, mock you and what not!! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Why learn?


 Coz you had to learn Windows too before you first used it. I'm sure you were not give _"Windowopdesh"_ just after you were born! 

Seriously, you don't need to learn (or unlearn). I don't understand what you are talking about! I don't understand even Prakash. What do we need to learn????? Isn't it just that all the things are there .. but under different menus!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You get a driver CD.


 Valid point  And everyone knows who is to blame for no drivers!



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> 1000s of orkut users, kids as well, keep on editing their pics. U think they r professionals? U think paint can accomplish all that? Bizarre! Some like editing and who wants to buy photoshop when a huge 5000+ bucks windows OS cant give it to u besides a 'file delete' problem 'out-of-box'! 5000+ bucks is like looting gullible users like u for an unworthy OS that cannot give u even 30% of daily use utilties and desktop experience 'out-of-box'!!


 Paint.net and GIMP are more than sufficient even for quite an advanced use. No use digging the file delete bug. Its already been patched. No OS is perfect. Some problems like these do crop up.


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

Anirudh - 
I didn't reply to gx_saurav post on purpose. FYI, you can customize OS X as well. Haven't seen Lifehacker's screenshots of Macs?  But the fact is many don't customize heavily as it already has killer looks.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

^^^ Yeah Ashwin, while I agree to the fact that OS X can be customized; the degree of customization is not as much as in other OS. That was my point


----------



## mediator (Dec 3, 2007)

I know its already been patched. So much for the excellent coding practices from MS on even the simplest of the concepts!! I dunno how can any one throw 5000+ bucks on such a piece of junk filled with incompatibilities of various kinds and do extra homework (patching the delete problem) to do basic stuff! I guess *learning* perl wud be better than repairing the "new" OS like that on each n every reinstall. 

WTH, 5000+ bucks and max. of 10 activations! MS is mocking its users and MVPs aggressively!


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

pathiks said:
			
		

> ^^ Oh F**k.. GX back in full form. bohot dino baad itna bada post dekha..


 
Lolz...after that reply I went to sleep & had to turn off my phone. Damn.....I guess it's time for me to turn off my phone. There always someone wants to talk ...damn, too many gals



> 1000s of orkut users, kids as well, keep on editing their pics. U think they r professionals? U think paint can accomplish all that? Bizarre! Some like editing and who wants to buy photoshop!!
> 
> And about OGM/ogg, readin linux partitions etc I guess we had given our requests in the thread created by the "MVP".


 
Yeah, u r right. MS Photo Gallery in Vista is something u never saw, right? I do agree & hate MS for not bundling Paint.net in Vista

This is not the thread to talk about Windows inbuilt features & Out of the box experience. This is about installation method in Windows & Linux. Stick to this only



> Below is the Authors experience in the IT sector:
> 
> *Expertise*
> Programming C++ - 7 Years
> ...


 
OMG...& still he forgot to install the optional updates for Windows....hard to believe.



> Firstly @gx, I'm not the one who wrote this article, please refer the source. ............


 
\blah blah blah...



> Windows doesn't list the software "available" to you. It only lists what is installed on the system unlike Ubuntu's Add / Remove or SPM. I think that's what he meant by "... all the softwares you *need*...


 
If this is what he meant, then have a look at Windows Market place.



> 1>
> You know what @iMav, you're just a piece of sh$%. Do you know why? Because first of all, you keep answering questions not directed at you and try to save @gx, ass, and when we do ask you a question, you don't reply and say that you give a 'rats a$$' as to whether you use pirated versions or not!


 
Cyrus, my dear 13 yeas old boy, do u need a crash course in manners? Can't u type properly...?



> 2.> When we ask you to post something, and because you obviously can't post it, you say that you are not going to waste your so called "precious useless time" to post anything and then you blame us for your ignorance and ask us to post things??


 
Lolz...u r saying this? Plz refer to the blah blah blah I posted above. I don't care who the admin is & how much experience he has. If he forgot to install optional updates in Windows Update in Windows XP then it is his fault & flaw.



> First of all, you dont' own a legal copy of windows


 
He owns a legal copy of XP & Vista



> *@drgrudge*, this guy is really getting on my nerves, please advise him not to post any more crap and stay to the point and stop answering questions that we ask someone else and stop lying.


 
U R pointing to iMav, mind having a look at your own blah blah blah post above  



> But someone here said .exe s are easiest to install. Nobody meantioned MSI


 
That's because MSI is engine, u can make a Windows Installer inside a exe too. Have a look at quicktime installer for Windows. It's an exe with MSI installer inside.



> Apart from the name of the program, what other info does it provide?


 
Vista has a feature of tags in apps. They can show some info about the apps in Add/Remove program



> What percentage of windows apps are .net based as of today????


 
How would I know 



> You are running a windows system which needs an over-alert user to:
> 
> 1) not install active-x controls
> 2) carefully click each link
> ...


 
Comon dude, u know what I use here. Windows Firewall & Ad muncher...malicious links are automatically removed. No active X installs automatically due to ad muncher & IE 7. I don't usually import registry keys....



> Oh, how much did you buy this for!??


 
 धन  माया है, सब मिथ्या है


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...after that reply I went to sleep & had to turn off my phone. Damn.....I guess it's time for me to turn off my phone. There always someone wants to talk ...damn, too many gals


You boast too much! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I do agree & hate MS for not bundling Paint.net in Vista


Even me! Its time MS incorporated Paint.net in Windows.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> This is not the thread to talk about Windows inbuilt features & Out of the box experience. This is about installation method in Windows & Linux. Stick to this only





			
				Thread Title said:
			
		

> Windows is !easy, Linux is !hard


Where does the thread title say: _This is about installation method in Windows & Linux_?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> If this is what he meant, then have a look at Windows Market place.


To haf a list of the apps and their info I need to log on to Windows Market Place?? 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> He owns a legal copy of XP & Vista


No need to clarify that! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> That's because MSI is engine, u can make a Windows Installer inside a exe too. Have a look at quicktime installer for Windows. It's an exe with MSI installer inside.


Yep, my bad. I overlooked this 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Vista has a feature of tags in apps. They can show some info about the apps in Add/Remove program


And we all know how much info it shows... 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How would I know


But you just made a claim regarding .net apps and their ease of use, their "runtime compilation" etc.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Comon dude, u know what I use here. Windows Firewall & Ad muncher...malicious links are automatically removed. No active X installs automatically due to ad muncher & IE 7.


What about file virus'? Don't you keep a tab on incoming and outgoing files? Don't temme you don't! Windows Firewall and Ad Muncher don't do this!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I don't usually import registry keys....


This is exactly what I've said!!! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> धन  माया है, सब मिथ्या है


I got your answer!


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> You boast too much!


 
Lolz...dude, to hell with gals...I need my 8 hrs sleep. It's cold here these days & I don't feel like coming out of the blanket in the morning.


> To haf a list of the apps and their info I need to log on to Windows Market Place??


 
Nope, have a look yourself.



> What about file virus'? Don't you keep a tab on incoming and outgoing files? Don't temme you don't! Windows Firewall and Ad Muncher don't do this!


 
Virii are usually in the form of com & exe. I only download these from some sources & don't run every exe I can find. I can have comodo firewall which automatically block any system intrusion like registry modification.

Seems like gauram & cyrus are typing a big post too.... Post boys, I m off to studies

Aww....comon boys, i m getting sleepy, Post fast


----------



## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> You boast too much!



rofl



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I can have comodo firewall which automatically block any system intrusion like registry modification.



got the answer, 

u cant block rootkits (even antivirus fails to do so).


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Virii are usually in the form of com & exe. I only download these from some sources & don't run every exe I can find. I can have comodo firewall which automatically block any system intrusion like registry modification.


Remember the Orkut virus and that mspowerpoint.exe etc., which spread thru flash drives and you can't do anything about it??!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Remember the Orkut virus and that mspowerpoint.exe etc., which spread thru flash drives and you can't do anything about it??!!


 
I wonder, why they never affected me?

Gosh...Gautam is still typing


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

I see that saurav has used my time away studying very well... I might get a bit philosophical near the end 


*1. The MSI and EXE issue*
 
the reason linux way is secure is because while in both cases downloads are made by sensible people only from valid sources, in windows a virus can easily modify/attack files, which can't happen in linux, as most actions are permission driven. And yes, you do get lots of deb packages for use offline, but the reason they are not popular is because linux literally grew online, so everyone is assumed to have internet.
 
*2. saurav's point on running linux on powerful computers* 
 
hopeless bull$hit. linux can do lots of stuff. ever heard of MEncoder? It works awssomely. So does FFMPEG. they run at beautiful speeds on linux, so its the best solution for media file conversions. commands can be directly done in the terminal to convert files. you also have powerful GUIs for the same. You have GIMP, one of the best of its kind, in linux. with gnome made from GTK, gimp intergrates very well into ubuntu, debian, etc and is awssome for image editing. Audacity is a good audio manipulation program. MythTV predates and outperforms Windows Media Center. LAMP servers have long proved their reliability.

*3. saurav's point on windows allowing more control over installs*

 yes, I agree that it is easier to do that in windows, but it does not mean that its impossible in linux. you only need to be experienced enough to do that. Ofcource, changing the location of the home folder is also easily possible. and its all for a reason. for an average user, in windows, you need to place the same files in many programs(ex: lame, etc) you can also loose track of programs. this is the only reason that big good programs have centralised locations in linux. but you still have/can compile apps which work from a single directory which can be shifted. but this is not a feature many have asked for, hence its not simplified. and you forget that all can be done via commandline. Linux is still evolving, so these things may take some more time.

*4. saurav's point of asking me to study windows for dummies*

I struggled with windows for years together, so I know lots about it. but now I have had enough of it. I instead, went and studied linux for dummies, and beleive me, it might just help you.

*5. saurav's claim of the superiority of the several paid windows apps*

there again, they were not made by MS. you still had to cough up for them. And it is already being proved that many applications perform better on linux compared to windows. so it won't be long before companies start developing apps for linux as well. Just like how microsoft said that apps needed to be developed for vista and .net need to be started to put to wide use, the same also applies for linux, does it not?

*6. saurav's rant of MSI in exe and all that*

ever heard of .bin files in linux? linux has so many options, but it all depends on what people choose to give. If I am a developer, I would only provide my softy in the way I wish to provide, etc etc. once again, linux for dummies anybody?

*7. saurav's point that commandline in windows is virtually non-existant*

its the main reason why windows to linux migrators find linux difficult. DOS had a very good commandline at its golden age. If they had evolved it to today, I am sure windows would have been much better.

*8. saurav's question as to why exe is not secure*

viruses. all due to the basic fact that the OS structure in UNIXes is better than windows. Sorry, but I think windows has a huge refining left.
*
9. saurav's question of which apps don't have exes*

 some have MSIs. some batch files. some like lame, officitally come only in sources. besides, the whole point is this: it was a bad idea to use executable files for every single thing in windows. this is why viruses are so rampant in windows.
*
10. saurav's rants of paint.net*

 bhool gaya hai kyon ye insan, ki paint.net OSS hai, aur windows main ache se paint software ki kami hi use paida kiya.
Paint.net would never have been made if something like the gimp was available by default on windows. Its brilliant software, but it does not fit into your arguement of MS being superior to OSS.

* 11. saurav's excuse for not being able to choose a distro*

did you know that you can mix features in distros? you can install yum in ubuntu too for example. besides, this is the preavailable stuff, and you can use them to make your own Saurav Linux that keeps you happy. Linux is all about free resources and DIY. You can even ask for advice from anyone who knows if you want to choose a distro. its not something difficult, even for fools(who btw, are not welcome in linux. sorry, but natural selection holds good here)
*
12. windows marketplace*

another bull$hit. you have got many things, but most paid. besides, the way they arrange stuff, all costly M$ software come first. they even try to avoid softys like OpenOffice.org(didn't find it in search) which compete with their paidware. You can't even find vlc. quite difficult to use. no offline database. big BOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

*13. saurav's question as to why should we turn to GIMP for simple tasks*

learning a complex software like the gimp is not an easy task. You learn them by going form the basics. If you use the GIMP for basic needs, you will slowly start to discover its full usage and this skill can be very valuable later. It has the same value .net programming or QT programming has. So whats happening is GOOD.
*
14. anything I forgot to mention*

 remind me, and I will be all over it.
 
Concluding Remarks:

*In the competitive world today, the reason why enlightened people will choose linux is because of one simple fact. when two similar products have a huge price difference, the only reason anyone will profit from the costlier is that it may have something superior enough to cover that cost gap. I pointed out to ye in a most concise manner that linux better than or as good as windows.

A true comparison of the two for the title of this thread can only be done by taking a pair of identical twins raised identically and with similar intellectual and characteristic traits that follow the standard set quite closely, and asking them, each aged 11, to learn an OS after giving them nessary knowledge about computers. One Vista and the other Ubuntu 7.10. Wait for the end result then talk.
* 
 @The Reader:

 I read all the posts saurav was making while I was typing this(2 of them). I tried to deal all the stuff which saurav asked. I wasted lot of time here. I am thinking of injecting gaterite in my fingures; they hurt from fatigue. Point out any thing if you want clarifications. I may soon doze off.
*
**HOLY $HIT! ITS TIME ALREADY?*​


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I wonder, why they never affected me?


 Concealed Anti-Virus, perhaps 

But seriously, no firewall/defender will catch this thing and it doesn't even need you to double click on anything!!! Lets be fair on this....

@Gautham
Many points haf been nicely reasoned by you  BTW, Don't waste time. Go study and/or sleep. These threads are a daily affair here  Whenever we get bored doing some monotonous job (like I'm doing these dayz), we just start threads like these for TP


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Concealed Anti-Virus, perhaps
> 
> But seriously, no firewall/defender will catch this thing and it doesn't even need you to double click on anything!!! Lets be fair on this....


sometimes luck is a factor here

PS: any comments on my big post?


----------



## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

> natural selection holds good here


 right said


> the way they arrange stuff, all costly M$ software come first. they even try to avoid softys like OpenOffice.org(didn't find it in search) which compete with their paidware. You can't even find vlc. quite difficult to use. no offline database. big BOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


true, indeed


----------



## vish786 (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> PS: any comments on my big post?




your wasting precious time...  which fetches nothing.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Concealed Anti-Virus, perhaps
> 
> But seriously, no firewall/defender will catch this thing and it doesn't even need you to double click on anything!!! Lets be fair on this....
> 
> ...


thats the reason I enjoy these threads. I am a debator, both by nature and by skill. so I get lots of TP and practice with these. I am just trying to pass time till 2am when I need to start some downloads.


----------



## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Concealed Anti-Virus, perhaps
> 
> But seriously, no firewall/defender will catch this thing and it doesn't even need you to double click on anything!!! Lets be fair on this....
> 
> ...



my fren(played unsafe without antivirus/antispyware) was like that and one day when he installed antispyware just to check..lol..wth i never knew.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> PS: any comments on my big post?


 Not much, just the post above. Coz as I've said you've nicely reasoned many points 

Oh yes, but one advise tho: If you are posting all this at the expense of your studies (since you are in Bangalore, I assume your exams are around) then plz go back to study. As I said we just do this to pep ourselves and for some TP


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Not much, just the post above. Coz as I've said you've nicely reasoned many points
> 
> Oh yes, but one advise tho: If you are posting all this at the expense of your studies (since you are in Bangalore, I assume your exams are around) then plz go back to study. As I said we just do this to pep ourselves and for some TP


at the expence of my study? hell. I finished all my stuff during the day. the examinations are also over. I am a free bird for a few days


----------



## drgrudge (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham - 
I like the way you post! Very colorful, but you might want to change the font color, not easy on the eyes. 

Why wait till 2 AM when you can schedule your torrent client?


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> MetalheadGautham -
> I like the way you post! Very colorful, but you might want to change the font color, not easy on the eyes.
> 
> Why wait till 2 AM when you can schedule your torrent client?


 because I am ignorant of a flashget equivalent for ubuntu. I know that something with ftp, http, ed2k, rstp, mms, BT, gnutella support exists with download sheduling, but forgot the name.

edit: I was looking for arguements about what I posted, not a critique on the posting style... guess I goofed up again. forgot that iMav and gx_saurav are offline. life is boring without them in this forum


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

> in windows a virus can easily modify/attack files, which can't happen in linux, as most actions are permission driven.


 
Welcome to 2007, the year of Windows Vista with locked & unmodifiable system files in the system folder which a general user cannot modify & neither can a virus without giving a UAC prompt at the least. A Virus exe cannot modify an exe in c:\Windows folder if the user is a standard uSer.



> ever heard of MEncoder? It works awssomely. So does FFMPEG. they run at beautiful speeds on linux, so its the best solution for media file conversions.




Ever heard of Riverpast, xilisoft...what not.




> commands can be directly done in the terminal to convert files. you also have powerful GUIs for the same.


 
Ok, I prefer GUI of Windows. So why look further to learn a command?




> You have GIMP, one of the best of its kind, in linux. with gnome made from GTK, gimp intergrates very well into ubuntu, debian, etc and is awssome for image editing.


 
Puhleeeezzzz....compared that to Paint.net only.




> MythTV predates and outperforms Windows Media Center.


 
OMG...rofl....lolz...have u ever used Media Center in USA where it actually works with full features . In India all u can do is watch & record cable TV. For that even MythTV is enough....provided it works with your tuner card like in my case I cannot watch TV in Linux.



> you only need to be experienced enough to do that.


 
That's teh point. No such experience required in case of Windows which makes it easier to do.



> in windows, you need to place the same files in many programs(ex: lame, etc) you can also loose track of programs.


 
What? Just copy Lame DLLs to system32 folder & be done with it.



> this is the only reason that big good programs have centralised locations in linux.



In Windows Vista 

Installation folder = C:\Program files
Common Files among many apps C:\program files\common files\
Shared DLL's among many apps = C:\Windows\system32\
Single place for the settings of all apps = C:\Users\Appdata.

So how is Linux better? Isn't it somewhat same like Windows.




> and you forget that all can be done via commandline. Linux is still evolving, so these things may take some more time.


 
Again, did u forget that command line is also there in Windows. Ever tried Windows PowerShell?



> I struggled with windows for years together, so I know lots about it. but now I have had enough of it. I instead, went and studied linux for dummies, and beleive me, it might just help you.


 
I wonder, I learned about Windows, did a job in Convergys in Vista support team, yet I never had to struggle in Windows...other then in 2002 when I got my PC, before that I was a Macintosh OS 9 user. Today I don't want to learn an OS, I want to work on it & design stuff. Linux can't help me in doing that...Period.



> And it is already being proved that many applications perform better on linux compared to windows


 
Lolz..don't get me started on this plz....Who proved apps work better in Linux , was it U?



> Just like how microsoft said that apps needed to be developed for vista and .net need to be started to put to wide use, the same also applies for linux, does it not?


 
Lolz...Photoshop is not made in .net, 3Ds Max is no made in .net....still they beat the hell out of any comparable Linux apps. Need I say more.



> ever heard of .bin files in linux? linux has so many options, but it all depends on what people choose to give.


 
Ever heard of NSIS, InstallAnywhere, Wise Installer, No installer (like Winamp). Windows has so many options.



> viruses. all due to the basic fact that the OS structure in UNIXes is better than windows. Sorry, but I think windows has a huge refining left.


 
Locked system files & UAC in Vista, they don't let any unknown exe run. hack even XP warns before running an unknown exe.



> it was a bad idea to use executable files for every single thing in windows.


 
It's called unification & ease of use for teh developer, learn about this.



> some like lame, officitally come only in sources


 
Ever tried to download official LAME dll?



> another bull$hit. you have got many things, but most paid.


 
Somebody needs to click on "Search freeware" checkbox 



> learning a complex software like the gimp is not an easy task. You learn them by going form the basics. If you use the GIMP for basic needs, you will slowly start to discover its full usage and this skill can be very valuable later.


 
Yeah, u r right. Hey I don't have time to learn right now, maybe later. i need to mail my GF the pics I took of her & me in Lucknow mahotsav today, so...c ya, u go & learn GIMP while I will go & resize & colour correct them in ACDSee without learning.



> Concealed Anti-Virus, perhaps
> 
> But seriously, no firewall/defender will catch this thing and it doesn't even need you to double click on anything!!! Lets be fair on this....


 
Trust me, no AV here.


----------



## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> because I am ignorant of a flashget equivalent for ubuntu. I know that something with ftp, http, ed2k, rstp, mms, BT, gnutella support exists with download sheduling, but forgot the name.



ktorrent

Hav nice scheduling bricks.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Welcome to 2007, the year of Windows Vista with locked & unmodifiable system files in the system folder which a general user cannot modify & neither can a virus without giving a UAC prompt at the least. A Virus exe cannot modify an exe in c:\Windows folder if the user is a standard uSer.
> 
> [/color]
> 
> ...




conclution: gx_saurav can't live without windows. His job is dependent on it. He knows only windows stuff. so I decided to let him enjoy his life while I enjoy mine, which he fails to realise the joy of, and I too fail to realise what he likes in windows.

man, keep that up and I can't keep my ****ing cool. I will let cyrus, prakash, etc talk to you. the same topic repeated 10 times. this is getting bull$hittier by time...

how about a thred discussing the concequences of windows becoming OSS?


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 3, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> man, keep that up and I can't keep my ****ing cool. I will let cyrus, prakash, etc talk to you. the same topic repeated 10 times. this is getting bull$hittier by time...



Nope, I've given up trying to put the same sense repeatedly into these 2 heads sealed forever with a windows lock screen


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 3, 2007)

then lets move to my new hypothetical issue discussing thread


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> conclution: gx_saurav can't live without windows. His job is dependent on it. He knows only windows stuff.


 
Well yeah. Do U have 3ds Max, Photoshop, ACDSee, Yahoo messenger & Windows Live messenger, Outlook 2007 & Word 2007, AutoCAD 2008, After effect CS3, Premiere CS3, Lightroom (ok this is for Mac only, not required in Windows), MyPhoneExplorer, Windows Live Mail desktop, WMP11 on Linux? I guess the answer is no...so yeah, my job is dependent on it. 



> so I decided to let him enjoy his life while I enjoy mine, which he fails to realise the joy of, and I too fail to realise what he likes in windows.


 
Lolz...seriously dude, don't ask about my life...peeps already know. Hey, who started this thread as a rant & who followed him?



> man, keep that up and I can't keep my ****ing cool. I will let cyrus, prakash, etc talk to you. the same topic repeated 10 times. this is getting bull$hittier by time...


 
I kno I know, even I m bored kicking the arse of ignorant fanboys who need to read, "Windows OS for dummies"


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

* for dummies are the crappiest books ever.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Well yeah. Do U have 3ds Max, Photoshop, ACDSee, Yahoo messenger & Windows Live messenger, Outlook 2007 & Word 2007, AutoCAD 2008, After effect CS3, Premiere CS3, Lightroom (ok this is for Mac only, not required in Windows), MyPhoneExplorer, Windows Live Mail desktop, WMP11 on Linux? I guess the answer is no...so yeah, my job is dependent on it.


nice collection... u must be uber rich


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

Just to clear one thing. UAC isn't exactly foolproof.  I posted a link about this on another thread I recall. If i recall correctly A sacrifice for convenience has been made for the benefit of the consumer.   However I'm not sure if any updates were introduced recently or in beta SP1 to correct the issue.


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

@metalhead: we have 1 thing in common - the reason why we post in these threads 

and whr is cyrus i called gx to answer the questions u asked some 1 else ab tu khudd bhag gaya


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

k i just realized what that ! before easy and hard means.

! is NOT in programming sense. Didnt notice it earlier.


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

The second wrong makes u feel right


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> The second wrong makes u feel right


u doubt it ?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Welcome to 2007, the year of Windows Vista with locked & unmodifiable system files in the system folder which a general user cannot modify & neither can a virus without giving a UAC prompt at the least. A Virus exe cannot modify an exe in c:\Windows folder if the user is a standard uSer.


Plz spare the jokes for some other time! We'll listen to those jokes when we really wanna be pepped up! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ever heard of Riverpast, xilisoft...what not.


Yep, the same kinda software's available for OSS too, which he listed. So whats the point?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ok, I prefer GUI of Windows. So why look further to learn a command?


Nobody's forcing you. You haf GUI for almost everything.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> OMG...rofl....lolz...have u ever used Media Center in USA


No sir, I can't buy return tickets to US just to "use Media Center in USA"!!! Heck, the US Consulate will decline my Visa request if I give them this reason!  Talk sense, buddy!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> That's teh point. No such experience required in case of Windows which makes it easier to do.


As I said, its not that Windows knowledge has been given to you by God when you were born!!!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What? Just copy Lame DLLs to system32 folder & be done with it.


Correct.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Isn't it *somewhat same* like Windows.


No where close!!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Again, did u forget that command line is *also there* in Windows. Ever tried Windows PowerShell?


Its NOT there, you need to download it!!! And someone was cribbing about "downloading and instaling stuff"  



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I wonder, *I learned about Windows*, did a job in Convergys in Vista support team, yet I never had to struggle in Windows...


Yep see, everyone has to learn! Its not God sent. So if you need to learn something new, its not bad right?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ...other then in 2002 when I got my PC, before that I was a Macintosh OS 9 user.


 (Sorry pal, I laugh too much!!!  )



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Today I don't want to learn an OS, I want to work on it & design stuff. Linux can't help me in doing that...Period.


Its like saying, I only know how to ride a bike. I wanna cruise on road but I don't wanna learn how to drive a car. So a car is useless for me!!!!

Moral of the story: Stick with your bike and don't discourage those who wanna use a car 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...Photoshop is not made in .net, 3Ds Max is no made in .net....still they beat the hell out of any comparable Linux apps. Need I say more.


Someone was singing praises about .net, its features, superiority and when I asked how many .net apps are on the "prowl", you said: How do I know??

And its perfectly correct that OSS lacks software like Photoshop, 3DS Max, AutoCAD etc.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ever heard of NSIS, InstallAnywhere, Wise Installer, No installer (like Winamp). Windows has so many options.


I didn't get the point. Both OS' haf many install options. So what? The Mac wins here!! Only single .dmg file.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Locked system files & UAC in Vista, they don't let any unknown exe run. hack even XP warns before running an unknown exe.


Yaar, I said plz don't let your jokes out. We'll listen to them when the right time comes. Warna joke ka mazaa chala jaata hai! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yeah, u r right. Hey I don't have time to learn right now, maybe later. i need to mail my GF the pics I took of her & me in Lucknow mahotsav today, so...c ya, u go & learn GIMP while I will go & resize & colour correct them in ACDSee without learning.


Some needs to cut down on boasting. Jus saying "I gotta edit the clicked pics would've been sufficient!  " (NOTE: Plz take it lightly, no offence meant!)

How can you compare GIMP and ACDSee? BTW, you still did not temme how much that "maya" of yours costs??! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Trust me, no AV here.


You are one lucky guy!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Well yeah. Do U have 3ds Max, Photoshop, ACDSee, Yahoo messenger & Windows Live messenger, Outlook 2007 & Word 2007, AutoCAD 2008, After effect CS3, Premiere CS3, Lightroom (ok this is for Mac only, not required in Windows), MyPhoneExplorer, Windows Live Mail desktop, WMP11 on Linux? I guess the answer is no...so yeah, my job is dependent on it.


My goodness! You are the richest brat around!!   I cudn't even think of affording all those software!

Sorry for rekindling the thread guys, was getting a bit bored  Gotta rush now... Continue your discussions


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 4, 2007)

I was just away for 13-14 hours and this thread went 3 pages ahead lolz

I dont know What I was going to reply  

Time to read 3 pages..lemme check.. y popcorn ready


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

@ Infra...

That reply wsa not for u, so u answered wrong


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 4, 2007)

Just Like to add something here. Its true that Windows with Internet connection Comp mainly needs AV, Firewall, AntiSpyware. It truth. Also most advanced softwares in windows cost $$.

But there many good free AVs [AntiVir, AVG] Firewalls [Komodo, ZA], Freewares for Antispyware available so they cost nothing. Also some free softwares like Irfan View are more than enough for a usual guy. [Gimp and Photoshop are way better but average guy never uses there potential to even 5%]

Free Office Suites and all also available for Windows and are easier to install. [Free software concept and its development owe a lot to Linux] GIMP, OpenOffice etc all are available to WIndows Platform too.

So all it comes down to for an average user for general purpose things is

1. Ease of Use
2. Ease of Installation of OS
3. Ease of adding removing softwares
4. Driver Support
5. Games [Yes this is a important aspect which cant be ignored]
6. Number of Free / Paid sofwares available wrt there purpose of use.
7. Availability of local support [Aska friend / Dealer / Some local techie]
8. Audio / Video Files playing.
9. Internet Browsing, Chat

Use of Shell, Security issues of installers and other stuff is for geeks interest and in my opinion an average guy doesnt bother abt them.

So the discussion is directed to above points then I feel it makes more justice to topic.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> Just Like to add something here. Its true that Windows with Internet connection Comp mainly needs AV, Firewall, AntiSpyware. It truth.


 
Nope, it depends on how u use windows.



> 1. Ease of Use
> 2. Ease of Installation of OS
> 3. Ease of adding removing softwares
> 4. Driver Support
> ...


 
1 2 4 5 6 7 8, Windows rox

Rest, Windows & linux are neck to neck


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

> 4. Driver Support


If I understand the  Linux concept correctly there are no Drivers. I might be wrong for this so Don't quote me on it. Pretty much if your hardware is supported then the modules are loaded. If its not then you can search for files required for the device but they basically are modules which are added to your system.

Could anyone confirm or correct me here please?


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, it depends on how u use windows.


 
To be honest if you dont install them it is like keeping the door all time open and saying there is no theft chance. Sooner or later it will cause problem.

DDoS Attcks, Spyware monitoring your activity and may be Password theft and in worst of cases viruses and also theft of Paypal account authontification data. I personally feel its very dangerous.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 4, 2007)

I am still staying away from this topic... till iMav starts posting

anyway, you keep telling us that lotsa propiatary stuff is available on win, but do you realise that they cost a heck lot? you need to be the richest rich boy around to own all of them...

i started a thread to discuss the concequences if all windows software could easily run on linux(that which can only happen if windows became OSS), which might have been disasterous for windows, but saurav and shantanu misunderstood the objective of that topic and the latter closed the thread

no offence, but why do some windows users don't even care to accept the fact that windows does have many pits? acceptance of mistakes is the first step towards greatness.

if win7 had a rewritten C/C# based unix style kernel , with all the stuff it currently has, and ext3, winFS, xvid; I suppose windows may win the OS wars. but, thats a long way from happening


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> I am still staying away from this topic... till iMav starts posting


 thank u for bringing me in else if i wud post then cyrus wud cry that im answering on gx's behalf  


			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> i started a thread to discuss the concequences if all windows software could easily run on linux


 oops wrong thread this is to discuss whether windows is easier or linux is harder  cyrus started thsi thread by copying some frustrated soul's FUD about how installing something is difficult on windows as compared to linux and i posted the exact ways which are practical no 1 bothered to talk on em


			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> no offence, but why do some windows users don't even care to accept the fact that windows does have many pits? acceptance of mistakes is the first step towards greatness.


 pits might be there very much like in linux or osx nothing is perfect but the step towards greatness should be taken by something that is trying to overtake and not by something that is numeor uno 


			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> if win7 had a rewritten C/C# based unix style kernel , with all the stuff it currently has, and ext3, winFS, xvid; I suppose windows may win the OS wars. but, thats a long way from happening


 i will personally call steve ballmer for this 

having said that now that divx is coming to xbox i think we might get it for windows 7 too


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

Tech_Wiz said:
			
		

> DDoS Attcks, Spyware monitoring your activity and may be Password theft and in worst of cases viruses and also theft of Paypal account authontification data.


 
Use some common sence, & something like Adbrick or Ad muncher & most of your problems will be solved.



> anyway, you keep telling us that lotsa propiatary stuff is available on win, but do you realise that they cost a heck lot? you need to be the richest rich boy around to own all of them...


 
If u consider Professional applications like Maya or Autodesk apps then they deserver to be paid because u make hell lot of money using these software.

If you are talking about general purpose consumer grade apps then either there is always a free alternative like XNView is to ACDsee or Irfanview, Broadgun PDF Machine is to Adobe Acrobat etc

Other then these, there are few applications which are actually worth paying. I use ACDSee, MyPhoneExplorer extensively....so I would be glad to pay the price for these, I did buy the license of ACDSee 5 legal once...due to which I was able to upgrade to v7 too....after that the new versions don't make much difference, so I m using v9 now 



> why do some windows users don't even care to accept the fact that windows does have many pits? acceptance of mistakes is the first step towards greatness


 
We do accept the pits of Windows, however why don't u accept the fact that linux is still no where close to Windows when it comes to ease of use,feature & 3rd party support


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 4, 2007)

Man if you think only stopping ads  being posted and pop up busters make win secure then I disagree.

Windows needs softwares to make it secure. [Most of them if not all are also available for free]


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

^^ well actually using av is more of a precaution as discussed previously in some thread; vista's inbuilt security options with defender are sufficient but they have to be coupled with some common sense - nothing just comes into ur pc without u doing something to allow it


----------



## superczar (Dec 4, 2007)

imav.....
Gx....

Give me a way to do this on windows:
 Headless NASSeedboxMan

*Edit: Don't you say Windows home server..it comes nowehere close to the capabilities of this despite demanding hardware 3 times more powerful*


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

i wonder y would a home user need this .... we have been talking about twhich os is easy and infra has always stopped his recorder on how is it different or same from a normal user's perspective .... y would a average user need two comps at home and btw i had read abt this long back on another site and have failed to understand any use of something like this at home


----------



## superczar (Dec 4, 2007)

Hahaha....you didnt even bother to read the article imav

because the article starts off with the very reasons why anyone would want such a thing at home



> *Introduction
> 
> *Do I need a home server you ask?
> Do any of the situations below sound familiar?
> ...



You really need to read what has been posted before posting back, and putting your own foot in your mouth!

As for 2 comps, more and more homes (esp. Urban) have more than 1 machine ...

In fact I think you did state something abt 3 machines at your place


As for which OS is easy and which isn't....Well, doing this on Linux *may not be easy* ..but at least it isnt *impossible *as on windows.... Hahahahaha


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 4, 2007)

the question was how mavy not why?


btw superczar your tut is superb (especially the part about controlling it through your mobile phone),recommending it to some friends.way to go man kudos!


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

i hav 2 desktop PCs,
one is presscott and other C2D.
Win is on Presscott and Lin is on C2D.
I would consider doing same when old PC disintegrate.


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

how to do it on windows will have to see (dont know) however its not impossible using vnc coz iv read a similar tut which used kubuntu and xp so another machine using 98 or xp wouldnt be any differnet but at the same time setup will be much much simpler  coz u dont need any commands but all gui .... it can be done using vnc on both machines  for sure


----------



## praka123 (Dec 4, 2007)

@superczar:very nice tut


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> how to do it on windows will have to see (dont know) however its not impossible using vnc coz iv read a similar tut which used kubuntu and xp so another machine using 98 or xp wouldnt be any differnet but at the same time setup will be much much simpler  coz u dont need any commands but all gui .... it can be done using vnc on both machines  for sure



gui is a kill for older systems


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

^ocmon t159 how old system will u dig up today i have used xp and 98 dual boot on a pII with 96 mb ram both working flawlessly well; i guess thats old enough for any tech savy guy who can or wants to do something of that sort


----------



## superczar (Dec 4, 2007)

GUI would not only kill older systems 

Using VNC over the internet would be painfully slow
Using VNC over GPRS would be near impossible

Hell, using VNC is just a workaround and not an elegant solution anyway



> i have used xp and vista dual boot on a pII with 96 mb ram



OMG...You sure are a brave and patient man...
How long did Vista take to boot....24 hrs?


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

excuses galore


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

T159 said:
			
		

> gui is a kill for older systems


 
Define old here. How old a system?


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Define old here. How old a system?


 you never know, its pretty much relative.

Obviously the machine is wihout appendages, who will click the gui button if there is no need of mouse and keyboards and everything can be made automatic by simply writing a shell script to the session for the very first installation.

dont u think gui will let in more bugs in the machine and make it prone to crashes? Adding abstraction comes at cost



			
				superczar said:
			
		

> OMG...You sure are a brave and patient man...
> How long did Vista take to boot....24 hrs?


 ftw


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 4, 2007)

superczar said:
			
		

> OMG...You sure are a brave and patient man...
> How long did Vista take to boot....24 hrs?



Forget the boot, imagine the install time


----------



## Garbage (Dec 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> MetalheadGautham said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey hey.. listen guys..
We got a guy who will tell Ballmer the things we suggest. And Ballmer will do accordingly !!  (In this case, he will build next Windows Kernel in C/C# - Unix like...)

Gr8 yaar iMav !!  BTW, have u contacted him ??


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

that was a typo i edited wen i re-read what i said  and u quoted me in the mean while 

and im outa balance now so will call him tomoro


----------



## Garbage (Dec 4, 2007)

Don't lie iMav.
It's still there. Please check again..

BTW, can u please give me Ballmer's phone number ??


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

1. what's still there

2. no


----------



## Garbage (Dec 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> 1. what's still there
> 
> 2. no



The message I quoted is still there!

huh.. It seems Ballmer and u are childhood friends


----------



## iMav (Dec 4, 2007)

that typo thing was not for u .... that was for superczar


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 4, 2007)

@saurav:
don't you ever say win ui is easier than linux.

idea: why not ask some kid in uganda who got to see the first computer thanks to OLPC? ask him to use windows now, after learning everything in linux

@iMav
thanks for coming.

learn to think twice b4 posting. its fun to read ur posts still


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> @saurav:
> don't you ever say win ui is easier than linux.



Compared to LInux GUI, yup...WIndows is better..


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Compared to LInux GUI, yup...WIndows is better..


see this and then think over it.
*img178.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=59517_h3ll_122_556lo.jpg


----------



## Garbage (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Compared to LInux GUI, yup...WIndows is better..


U mean AERO looks better than Compiz-Fusion ??? :O


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

Lolz....so GUI for u means a jajjed up theme only


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

shirish_nagar said:
			
		

> U mean AERO looks better than Compiz-Fusion ??? :O



nope u can get aero like interface in linux with much better whistles n bells.

It looks even better than Aero IMHO.

Btw the screenshot is from ubuntu 7.04, and thats beryl manager



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz....so GUI for u means a jajjed up theme only



certainly not, linux was always better in gui but not in looks n themes.

But now things hav changed.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

T159 said:
			
		

> certainly not, linux was always better in gui but not in looks n themes.



Lolzzzz///now what to say.


----------



## Faun (Dec 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolzzzz///now what to say.


 checkout FC 3, it looks primitive but robust

no jazzed up themes.


----------



## naveen_reloaded (Dec 4, 2007)

I used ubuntu which i got it thru post..

Really I was glad to have a preview of the os thru their live cd feature...

But soon realised that i was stuck in playing my videos..it neede to connect to net...i used it for say half an hour and thought that ubuntu is not well sculpted ...may be give it a few more years it will come up nice.. 
Function wise i think vista is miles ahead...and also in usability...

Sorry to say the above.. But ubuntu didnt impress me...sorry dudes...


----------



## mediator (Dec 5, 2007)

naveen_reloaded said:
			
		

> I used ubuntu which i got it thru post..
> 
> Really I was glad to have a preview of the os thru their live cd feature...
> 
> ...


 ROFL  Forming opinion on half an hour use => how sensible!! I used windows for 9+ years and I was wasted!!


----------



## x3060 (Dec 5, 2007)

you are absolutely right there . . . 
forming an opinion based on half an hour or even 2 months or infrequent usage and saying things as crap . . how strange peoples these days are :-l. they simply cant ask for help . cant call a techi to get it done for them. dont even have the willingness to learn .

by the way . . i would blame it on mag . . it simply would have been easy if digit can teach playing mp3 and other simple things with out net support .  a featured article and some help files on dvds would have been nice than incorporating os every month and giving nothing whatso ever about operation . . when you give something make sure you let the other get used to it too . thats what i call true service


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 5, 2007)

.... So I was installing Vista on a machine the other day... I waited for half an hour or so while it installed ... and thought that vista is not well sculpted..


----------



## W i d e S c r e e N (Dec 5, 2007)

Plz pardon my ignorance on the subject and the fact that I didnt read this thread after few posts, but, I need ur suggestion,

I'll be getting my repaired HDD of 500Gigs soon. I was thinking to install XP SP2, & Fedora (Fedora-8-dvd-i386) w/compiz/beryl, and Vista Ultimate on it. it feaseable?

would it be smooth transistion from using years of using Windows GUI and now shifting to Linux?

Any other Linux should i start off with, cuase ive read that *Fedora is much more "welcoming" to ignorant windows users*


ON THE OTHER HAND



			
				x3060 said:
			
		

> the willingness to learn



Why would a Windows user bother. For Home use only, all entertainmnt need satisfied with crap windowds media player, when he has all that he needs from a PC @ Home why would he bother? 


Unless he has to PAY FOR, then it's another FightClub debate.


----------



## cool_techie_tvm (Dec 5, 2007)

^^ Linux noob in here. Lately i tried both FC 8 and Ubuntu. The package management of Ubuntu is far better than Fedora.


----------



## Tech_Wiz (Dec 5, 2007)

Compiz 100% better than Aero. BUT provided it works ~


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 5, 2007)

> Why would a Windows user bother. For Home use only, all entertainmnt need satisfied with crap windowds media player, when he has all that he needs from a PC @ Home why would he bother?



Why bother to change at all?


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

^^ exactly why bother as i illustrated before:

*mav3.deviantart.com/art/Ignorance-is-Bliss-71185888


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 5, 2007)

lol...yeah exactly why bother to learn at all?zindagi kat rahi to katne do na.Aur Newton chacha to bol kar gaye hai ki changes are not good.lol.


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

why whats wrong in learning windows based technologies ... whats wrong in learning .net .... linux isnt the only thing to learn half the IT world earns by selling windows based and for windows applications  so ur stupid arguement of why learn anything is actually very naive coz theres a lot to learn in windows itself vishal for example will tell u what u can learn and do in windows  so keep the absolute naivety to urself


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 5, 2007)

dude why learn .net and make programs exclusively for windows?why not learn c\c++\java\python which can be ported to windows,linux as well as os x?


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

so who is stopping u from learning 

i havnt come across any post that is telling u tpo stop learning some technologies


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 5, 2007)

ahhh...god,save me!


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

use windows thy shall save urself


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> why whats wrong in learning windows based technologies ... whats wrong in learning .net .... linux isnt the only thing to learn half the IT world earns by selling windows based and for windows applications  so ur stupid arguement of why learn anything is actually very naive coz theres a lot to learn in windows itself vishal for example will tell u what u can learn and do in windows  so keep the absolute naivety to urself


 
Gr8 reply.....Lin geeks act like Linux is the only thing worth learning.

Devil, ever saw expression blend? All teh mock UIs that I made in Photoshop are very easy to make in reality.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 5, 2007)

yaar ye photoshop kahan se aa gayi?Photoshop!=windows.photoshop=35k/year!

sab kuch learn karo na!I mean learn windows,learn linux,try os x,learn .net,learn c\c++,everything.

my post was aimed at the guy on last page who said why should windows users 'try to learn' linux when they can do all the things in windows?My answer is simple If you aint interested in learning then stick to windows.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 5, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> *sab kuch learn karo na*!I mean learn windows,learn linux,*try os x*,learn .net,learn c\c++,everything.


 
Then u need a 100 years school 

Sorry, don't have money to "try" OS X.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 5, 2007)

no comments.....


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> My answer is simple If you aint interested in learning then stick to windows.


 haan toh kahe itni bad bad kar rahe ho


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

Guys I'm back!

But only to say: Thank you! You guys pepped me up. God bless you all!


----------



## mediator (Dec 5, 2007)

> why whats wrong in learning windows based technologies ... whats wrong in learning .net .... linux isnt the only thing to learn half the IT world earns by selling windows based and for windows applications so ur stupid arguement of why learn anything is actually very naive coz theres a lot to learn in windows itself vishal for example will tell u what u can learn and do in windows  so keep the absolute naivety to urself


 I tried but my concentration was hampered by crashes, hangs, BSODs, viruses and infections of mysterious kinds. Besides I dont want to limit myself to cross platform incompatibilities! Freedom to code is what I long for n we have seen what MS does to its loyal developers!! Read MS-*-EULA n u might learn law instead!


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

^^ damn u also like jeshtha started giving links


----------



## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

puppets of misery


----------



## mediator (Dec 5, 2007)

What jeshtha? *www.smileyhut.com/confused/dunno.gif


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 told me not to refer him by sir and use jeshtha (means elder) instead


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 5, 2007)

> I'll be getting my repaired HDD of 500Gigs soon. I was thinking to install XP SP2, & Fedora (Fedora-8-dvd-i386) w/compiz/beryl, and Vista Ultimate on it. it feaseable?
> 
> would it be smooth transistion from using years of using Windows GUI and now shifting to Linux?
> 
> Any other Linux should i start off with, cuase ive read that Fedora is much more "welcoming" to ignorant windows users



The reason I asked why bother to change at all is because this person seems to be changing his OS for obviously the * Wrong reasons*.

Just because someone says Linux/Windows is better doesn't mean you need to try or use both. Use whatever you feel good with. It sounds like your trying Fedora cause Everyone is either trying the same. If you want to try it for sake of tying it enjoy. 

However in the next post you say :



> Why would a Windows user bother. For Home use only, all entertainmnt need satisfied with crap windowds media player, when he has all that he needs from a PC @ Home why would he bother?



You tell us . Why would you want to change something you are absolutely comfortable with. Im just lost by your contradicting statements. 



> *mav3.deviantart.com/art/Ignor...Bliss-71185888



Nice work  . Im going to download a copy. What font did you use by the way?  



> why whats wrong in learning windows based technologies ... whats wrong in learning .net .... linux isnt the only thing to learn half the IT world earns by selling windows based and for windows applications so ur stupid arguement of why learn anything is actually very naive coz theres a lot to learn in windows itself vishal for example will tell u what u can learn and do in windows  so keep the absolute naivety to urself



Theres nothing wrong in learning anything . I don't see why you would see otherwise. Knowledge is Power regardless of what you study.  



> What jeshtha



It means Elder brother.


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Theres nothing wrong in learning anything . I don't see why you would see otherwise. Knowledge is Power regardless of what you study.


 i dont see otherwise devil said that u wont or dont have anything to learn if u use windows to which i said no ther is a lot to learn in windows itself 

and thanks  i dont know the font i had an original which had the text only so i added the images and tweaked the punch line (obviously inspired by the happenings here)


----------



## mediator (Dec 5, 2007)

Ahh, I know what jeshtha means but not to whom the reference was being made! 
Neways, linking is a bad habit of mine since the start of the forum! 
Neways back to the topic. Windows => *www.smileyhut.com/thumb/thumbdown.gif


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

no problems 
 neways back to the topic. Linux/OS X => *www.smileyhut.com/thumb/thumbdown.gif


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> neways back to the topic. Linux/OS X => *www.smileyhut.com/thumb/thumbdown.gif



OS X isn't a part of the topic


----------



## praka123 (Dec 5, 2007)

India government should put advertisements on Leading Newspapers,and Linux/OSS companies should carry out online advertisements of why NOT Windows and Why Linux  India should be the pioneer in moving to Linux and FOSS(Free,Open Source Software).
*getgnulinux.org

this all will make a change.ignorance and windows ui addiction that makes the people stuck with windows.Linux will be alien for many users as they expect alternate windows in Linux.the biggest problem for a new Linux user is to understand the UNIX file system.next comes the packages installation.most n00bs will be on Net for searching Linux "setup.exe"'s for installing software  

without any bias I am saying-Linux n00b's should be able to dedicate to use Linux and do not boot into windows.This will fasten up the adoption.

few problems due to hardware drivers exists,which has to be fixed asap.for eg:X drivers,refinement of Xorg,usb drivers,wireless h/w drivers,printer support etc.some unfortunate will have to tweak their drivers or have to use terminal for installing drivers following howto's.

^this terminal thing is thought  as same as of a DOS CLI,which it actually is not.it is comparatively easy to use terminal and for driver issues or tweaking you need to know the terminal and few commands.

^the reluctance of few hardware manufacturers especially wireless and Printers makes a new Linux user forced to use terminal.
this situation should be changed.more companies should give drivers for their h/w for Linux/BSD's or provide specifications of their h/w as FOSS community and even novell offers free driver development.

I dont know why these companies and corporates underestimating Linux users.many so called "surveys" will show Linux usage at <1% and the reality will be there is no correct procedure to know the correct number of Linux users.I have read it somewhere that Linux and Mac share almost same % of market share.ie,approximately 5%.Microsoft already knows this growth and hence they came open after the SCO FUD failed by bringing Linux infringes their so called 235+ software "patents" 

And this 5% are having the right to use their hardware on Linux and the companies are making it hard for Linux users by neglecting its presence.

So,there is this hardware support for few hardwares which makes it difficult for a n00b Linux user.this situation needs to change 
*__________________________________________________________________________*


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

relax praka .. linux is going to win don't try to fight with MS fanboys who don't not know what's really happening in the developers mind and also the client's !! let them be in dark ! 

besides MS are them self very afraid to linux
the fact that they conducted a Orientation in our college and other leading college in the country on why you should wirte applications for windows proved it
All CSE and ISE students were called for it 
we went thinking its going to be something cool

but we saw how desperate MS was to woo developers to windows side !


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> India government should put advertisements on Leading Newspapers,and Linux/OSS companies should carry out online advertisements of why NOT Windows and Why Linux  India should be the pioneer in moving to Linux and FOSS(Free,Open Source Software).


 
Microsoft should put advertisements on Leading Newspapers,and carry out online advertisements of why NOT Linux.


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Microsoft should put advertisements on Leading Newspapers,and carry out online advertisements of why NOT Linux.


They do .. Read Economic Times !

In IITs and NITs MS advertises a lot in the computer science department to woo the students to MS .. incase you did not know ! the same in our college also !


----------



## ico (Dec 5, 2007)

People are saying that Windows is easy because they are used to it. If they try Linux, they may have a bit of difficulty but then after getting familiar with the OS, everything becomes easy.

We cannot say that "Windows is !easy, Linux is hard". I use openSuse 10.3, and I really find it easy.


----------



## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> They do .. Read Economic Times !
> 
> In IITs and NITs MS advertises a lot in the computer science department to woo the students to MS .. incase you did not know ! the same in our college also !


i remember someone official from MS gave a brief introduction of VISTA in our college.

And they gave some 5 cds(yeah not a single DVD) of VISTA with license, to our college. Now thats a forgotten legend. Nobody knows where VISTA is installed in our college


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

^^ same in our college .. they gave lots of vista Business DVDs to CS department
but all systems are 512 MB RAM !!!!! we could not control our laugh at our college infrastructure not having 1 GB RAM also that Vista Needs ! the admin gave it to few students of 6th Sem and other faculty and people in college .. lucky them


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> India government should put advertisements on Leading Newspapers,and Linux/OSS companies should carry out online advertisements of why NOT Windows and Why Linux  India should be the pioneer in moving to Linux and FOSS(Free,Open Source Software).
> *getgnulinux.org
> 
> 
> *__________________________________________________________________________*





nice there!, is there any hindi version of this site, or any similar site in hindi?


----------



## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> ^^ same in our college .. they gave lots of vista Business DVDs to CS department
> but all systems are 512 MB RAM !!!!! we could not control our laugh at our college infrastructure not having 1 GB RAM also that Vista Needs ! the admin gave it to few students of 6th Sem and other faculty and people in college .. lucky them


yeah my colleages got the CDs from college but then 5 cds were like waiting there and playng pop in-po out for whole installation.

They got DVDs from net and used the license key  But still very few uses vista, many are comfortable with XP.


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

o damn here we go again same old raag .... abey kuch naya batao ....

and ya some 1 said they laughed when they got vista for 512 .... dude ur the dumb 1 and the frigging joke's on u .... vista works fine on 512


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

MS fanboys wait for Pictures !
When my college starts off .. i will show you people that we write programs in Linux Environment and Not in Windows ! Now i have holidays !! so have to wait !
but first i have to some how to manage to get my phone into college amidst tight security ! lol !

We use fedora core in college .. and me now ubuntu at home ( untill now i wrote programs in windows IDE  )


----------



## x3060 (Dec 5, 2007)

true . . one who is brought up with Linux will find win difficult . . its same as me finding nokia difficult to use . cause am used to SE . BUT that dont make nokia bad or SE good . same with win and lin. but unfortunately xp is far better than vista


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

so big deal if u write progs n linux MS have their own research center for OSS ms writes progs for OS X too .... big deal .... writing progs means u over took ms or writing progs for OSS means OSS is easier whats wrong with ur rationality or u lost it .... Go ask a normal user go ask an office guy what he uses and what he prefers as long they say Windows .... write progs for whatever u want .... windows will rule and ur application has a very very naroow audience ... so dude in short this linux bubble is more hype than reality .... whack ur head twice u might wake up


----------



## praka123 (Dec 5, 2007)

@gary:there is another site *whylinuxisbetter.net they have translations in many lanugages except hindi,tamil or bengali  You can try helping that fellow by translating his site into Hindi  else,

_*अरे...तू क्यों ना एक ग्नु/लिनक्स प्रोमो सैट बना दे!*_


----------



## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> @gary:there is another site *whylinuxisbetter.net they have translations in many lanugages except hindi,tamil or bengali  You can try helping that fellow by translating his site into Hindi  else,
> 
> _*अरे...तू क्यों ना एक ग्नु/लिनक्स प्रोमो सैट बना दे!*_


 this page is quite contrasting:
*www.getgnulinux.org/linux/linux_faq

thanx for the link.


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

no point in talking to MS fanboys......i gave facts to cheer up Linux guys !

i am not here to convince MS fanboys about MS and stuff alright ! its impossible 
and i don't care.....go use windows

and know what ? windows is being dumped every day at a slow rate
after a few years ask a layman windows or linux .. you will get your answer
now of course the answer is Windows !

Unless MS does something miracle in the field of Computing and Computer  Architecture and Computer Software Architecture its going to be tough for it to survive !

And MS is far away in research in computers compared to IBM !


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

blah blah blah ... the day travolds started this little project of his which has eventually grown iv been hearing this ... and every 1 told me to switch to linux as it was the future and guess what the future's not here xp kicked the arse and xp was dubbed a crappy os now every1 is like xp is better  u guys are not sure of urselves  so until then .... well Windows Rulzzzzz


----------



## praka123 (Dec 5, 2007)

XP with SP2 aint a stable operating system.it is bcoz of vista release that windows users shifting from vista to xp spreads this rumour.when compared to vista,ofcourse XP may be better!

...and i can read ur frustration from ur words esp linus torvarlds


----------



## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

ya whatever the guys names so friggin complicated no wonder he has a screwed up OS ... look Bill Gates simple name great OS


----------



## praka123 (Dec 5, 2007)

^@imeow:waah!Taaj Kya Logic hai!


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> so big deal if u write progs n linux MS have their own research center for OSS ms writes progs for OS X too .... big deal .... writing progs means u over took ms or writing progs for OSS means OSS is easier whats wrong with ur rationality or u lost it .... Go ask a normal user go ask an office guy what he uses and what he prefers as long they say Windows .... write progs for whatever u want .... windows will rule and ur application has a very very naroow audience ... so dude in short this linux bubble is more hype than reality .... whack ur head twice u might wake up





			
				iMav said:
			
		

> blah blah blah ... the day travolds started this little project of his which has eventually grown iv been hearing this ... and every 1 told me to switch to linux as it was the future and guess what the future's not here xp kicked the arse and xp was dubbed a crappy os now every1 is like xp is better  u guys are not sure of urselves  so until then .... well Windows Rulzzzzz



Lolz... signs of desparation and frustration!!


----------



## Garbage (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ya whatever the guys names so friggin complicated no wonder he has a screwed up OS ... look Bill Gates simple name great OS


iMav, now u shld talking Steave Ballmer dude...


----------



## gary4gar (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> @gary:there is another site *whylinuxisbetter.net they have translations in many lanugages except hindi,tamil or bengali  You can try helping that fellow by translating his site into Hindi  else,
> 
> _*अरे...तू क्यों ना एक ग्नु/लिनक्स प्रोमो सैट बना दे!*_


great idea,i am sure you can  make a wonderful site


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## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

Linus Torvalds is from Finland, from where the best metal bands came 

No wonder if other people say that Indians hav very long twisted names ?


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 5, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> XP with SP2 aint a stable operating system.



Questionable....in this theory even Linux isn't stable.


----------



## Faun (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ya whatever the guys names so friggin complicated no wonder he has a screwed up OS ... look Bill Gates simple name great OS


lookie lookie its not Bill Gates
Its
William Henry Gates III 
the 3rd version of his family progeny.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates


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## iMav (Dec 5, 2007)

woh bhi spell karna easy hai .... i know his full name bt the world know linux tarvolds as linus tarvolds and knows William Henry Gates III as bill gates  ....


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> world know *linux tarvolds* as linus tarvolds and knows William Henry Gates III as bill gates  ....


 hehe....


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

Offtopic !!


*Praka123 *Are You not attending this ??

*foss.in/2007/info/Home

its really cool .. i am not going coz i am FOSS newb !


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

^^^ Mehul's there.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

cool
may be next year we can have digit b'lore meet right there at FOSS.in


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## Pathik (Dec 5, 2007)

@infra arent u goin there?? and btw do they hav such meets in mumbai??


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

No pal, not going. Am held up with my MS application submission 

FOSS.in is a Bangalore exclusive event. Every year it happens here. It was prev. called Linux Bangalore. Its an international event (almost)

@Akshay
Well, nice idea. But I wonder how many would cough up Rs.1000 for the ticket!!


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 5, 2007)

this is at walking distance from my house!
and I have a holiday on saturday
I will surely be there


so how many are comming? prakash? anirudh?


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Well, nice idea. But I wonder how many would cough up Rs.1000 for the ticket!!


What !! 1000 rs ??
 ok then .. i was just kidding about meeting there

pertty cool guatham staying near IISc
do they have a public library or something ? so that u can visit often !


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 5, 2007)

1000 a ticket? thats a 2GB pendrive.

I would therefore like to say **** off to the meeting


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## W i d e S c r e e N (Dec 5, 2007)

Im sorry about posting "why bother". Plz disregard the statement.I was refernig to LayMen who knows only that a PC means Intel & Windows. No disrespect/offence to any Linux users.

Now onto my original and only query. I want to try Linux not because I hate windows but because I know that there's something better out there that I can use to put my resources to efficent use.

For me ignorance is not bliss. In todays world one cannot afford to be ignorant.

Plz suggest on the original query. And I AM 100% N00b in concern to Liunx OS



			
				W i d e S c r e e N said:
			
		

> I'll be getting my repaired HDD of 500Gigs soon. I was thinking to install XP SP2, & Fedora (Fedora-8-dvd-i386) w/compiz/beryl, and Vista Ultimate on it. it feaseable?
> 
> would it be smooth transistion from using years of using Windows GUI and now shifting to Linux?
> 
> Any other Linux should i start off with, cuase ive read that *Fedora is much more "welcoming" to ignorant windows users*


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## x3060 (Dec 5, 2007)

and i am now looking at video tutees for learning simple things in Linux . . you can head to open source section . some have posted good video tut there . . "watch and learn " 

why is that no masters on digit are contributing video tut on Linux here  . they dont want it to grow   . . a video is worth a 1000 pictures .


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## Faun (Dec 6, 2007)

x3060 said:
			
		

> and i am now looking at video tutees for learning simple things in Linux . . you can head to open source section . some have posted good video tut there . . "watch and learn "
> 
> why is that no masters on digit are contributing video tut on Linux here  . they dont want it to grow   . . a video is worth a 1000 pictures .


provide a 8mbps connection and then everything will be video tutorial.

Though DIGIT can give vids in DVD alongwith mag.


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## x3060 (Dec 6, 2007)

and digit dont even bother to give  . now who suffers ? a new user like me  getting all excited , going there , using it once and forced to read 1000 pages .. 
dont argue , who forced . . but i want to learn .


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## Faun (Dec 6, 2007)

x3060 said:
			
		

> . . but i want to learn .



thats one good trait of urs, never despise it, for natural selection holds for those who learn to change and change to revolutionize.


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 6, 2007)

indeed...

I am now a power user of Ubuntu, and it seems only yesterday that I rearranged partitions to make way for Ubuntu


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 6, 2007)

Widescreen > i fell ubuntu is much more easier ! you can easily install apps using inbuilt package manager which shows programs with ratings and nice description !
also ubuntu comes with compiz fusion install option

in ubuntu when you try to play Mp3 for the first time it asks you to install necessary codecs from internet .. just do it ! and you are done !

and there are wondeful tutorials to install compiz fusion on ubuntu
also setting up internet is very easy on ubuntu .. infact easier then Windows !


may be fed core is also easy .. but i feel you must go for ubuntu !


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

@Widescreen : Whats your hardware configuration. Just curious.


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## mediator (Dec 6, 2007)

> may be *fed core* is also easy .. but i feel you must go for ubuntu !


Show some respect to the word man!


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 6, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Show some respect to the word man!



fedora is an ugly old hat, not a McLaren Helemet to show respect


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 6, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Show some respect to the word man!



hey common man .. we use that short from in college.. what respect and all that ?? ha ?
like you will be having shortforms for stuff same way here.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 6, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> fedora is an ugly old hat, not a McLaren Helemet to show respect


Dude you better watch out! Mediator is Hakkinen!


----------



## mediator (Dec 6, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> *fedora* is an ugly old hat, not a McLaren Helemet to show respect


 Yea, thats the korrect term! *www.smileyhut.com/music/rock.gif

F : Freedom/Fedora!

@akshay : Ahh...never mind!


----------



## iMav (Dec 6, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> F : Freedom/Fedora


 F: FUGG


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 6, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> F: FUGG


W: *W*indows

W: *W*orst *W*aste *W*hole *W*orld *W*ill *W*itness 

I think it's time this thread be closed because firstly no one is on topic anymore and @iMav seems interested only in saying crap like Linus Torvalds is not a famous personality so his product is a failure and what not! I think we've seen enough of this cr@p


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 6, 2007)

and if its closed, I am ready with a new topic


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## iMav (Dec 6, 2007)

hey btw 1 question which linux did tarvolds make - ubuntu; fedora; slacware; debian


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 6, 2007)

None


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## Dark Star (Dec 6, 2007)

Living is so hard while dying so easy . . So its not that we should die  Same is for WIndows and Linux


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Dec 6, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> hey btw 1 question which linux did tarvolds make - ubuntu; fedora; slacware; debian


he is the person behind kernel development,he oversees all the kernel develpoment.And then they give it to distro makers,of course for free.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 6, 2007)

i don't think iMav will understand terms like kernel, shell, layered software etc !

if he would then he would appriciate linux


----------



## iMav (Dec 6, 2007)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> i don't think iMav will understand terms like kernel, shell, layered software etc !


 o yeah i am dumb a$$  ur the smartest people on God's green earth  and next time avoid such comments coz u dont want me to get personal


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Dec 6, 2007)

yeah right ... shld not put that 4 letter word !!!!
of course we are the smartest .. no doubts there !


----------



## Sukhdeep Singh (Dec 15, 2007)

WOW, tried to attach my pendrive on my friends with Linux and it didnt work. Seached the net and got this

*www.kingston.com/support/USBFLASHDRIVES/FAQ/faq_dti_hs_2.asp

Gave up ...burned a DVD


----------



## kalpik (Dec 15, 2007)

^^ That's not needed on ANY distro! USB drives work out of the box! Maybe some problem with your friend's box!


----------



## Faun (Dec 15, 2007)

blame the stosh*farm3.static.flickr.com/2355/2107305358_394278500c_o.png


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 15, 2007)

Sukhdeep Singh said:
			
		

> WOW, tried to attach my pendrive on my friends with Linux and it didnt work. Seached the net and got this
> 
> *www.kingston.com/support/USBFLASHDRIVES/FAQ/faq_dti_hs_2.asp
> 
> Gave up ...burned a DVD


Majority of the distros come with USB support out of the Box. You're friend might have had a problem with actual USB hardware on the PC rather than the software.


----------



## Sukhdeep Singh (Dec 16, 2007)

Thanks, i guess you guys are right, i tried it on Ubuntu on Virtual PC and it worked  Must be something wrong with his PC


----------



## krates (Dec 18, 2007)

Well well there is not something that linux is tough but there are some things which are really recommended for example when you install a program first of all you must have 

An *internet connection*
Next you must be geek.
Next you must read some guides to start off
Next you start learning about terminal
Then you can install it finally

In windows 

Just get a software cd
double click on the setup.exe

and done

1 Thing more why linux is behind is

In many or all schools in india are provided with windows( Not school windows  ) which is the starting point where you must have used comp for the first time  now understand rest things


----------



## preshit.net (Dec 18, 2007)

Okay, it may be not for all the linux distros, but never heard of a .deb file ?


----------



## x3060 (Dec 18, 2007)

yeah , i fully realize it now . . with out net connection , its a miniature hell . . the only disto , thats working for me now is mandriva 08 , and even there am having some troubles . . well , i guess i need to get a professional support , but thats ok , thats how every one starts . you just need the willingness to learn , thats all


----------



## iMav (Dec 18, 2007)

so now every1 has started agreeing when i said that an internet is must fukat mein ro rahe the ab line pe aa gaye  chalo dhire cdhire baki bhi samaj jaogey


----------



## CadCrazy (Dec 18, 2007)

kushagra_krates@yahoo.com said:
			
		

> example when you install a program first of all you must have
> 
> An *internet connection*
> Next you must be geek.
> ...





			
				x3060 said:
			
		

> yeah , i fully realize it now . . with out net connection , its a miniature hell . . the only disto , thats working for me now is mandriva 08 , and even there am having some troubles . . well , i guess i need to get a professional support , but thats ok , thats how every one starts . you just need the willingness to learn , thats all



Why you guys are screaming that linux can't work without net connection.
visit here Offline Ubuntu Package center
adi007 has got his ubuntu working without having net connection


----------



## iMav (Dec 18, 2007)

cad ur signature pretty much sums up what an experience with linux is all about *farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2107305542_22d75ef21a_o.png


----------



## x3060 (Dec 18, 2007)

i am comfy with my mandriva now  . . Ubuntu . . the darn nvidia dont work on my friends machine . i dont see the drives under /mnt . but mandriva does all with ease , except nvidia . am a mandriva fan now . MY LIFE FOR MANDRIVA. . but can anyone help me out with nvidia on mandriva ?


----------



## krates (Dec 18, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> cad ur signature pretty much sums up what an experience with linux is all about *farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2107305542_22d75ef21a_o.png



^^^^^^ hehhe  ^^^^^^^

And hey i am not screaming if you don't have net connection then it is the worst os you have ever expirienced i know about the packages but new users don't and it just **** .


----------



## x3060 (Dec 19, 2007)

wait a min . . found the correct match now , mandriva 08 and Linux mint  . . no net connection required . i guess its cause of my ignorance about compiling that i said net is a must . i still feel that , cause i dont know Linux . one day , i hope to be friendly with it . but anyways , its just an O.S . . 
p.s - mint is great


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 24, 2007)

I wanted to switch to ubuntu 7.1 and make it my main OS. Keep xp for gaming.
Following issues made it complicated or impossible:
Graphics Drivers: 
1. without graphics drivers my screen is shifted left outside viewable area of CRT. Also the fan is always on and making too much noise.
2. I enable restricted drivers by downloading it from net using apt-get. But it doesn't come with the control panel.
3. I download drivers from nvidia site. But it doesnt run because x server has to be shut down.
4. I search for inittab and don't find it. I use sudo init 3 and still x server doesnt shut down. ( what happened to standard init levels of unix?)
5. I use init 1 and install drivers and enable compiz.
Compiz rocks
6. (Edit) I am adding this although this didnt happent to me yet. If the kernel gets updated, my x server will not start properly until i reinstall gfx drivers
Codecs:
1. I download non-free extras.
2. Common codecs work but many I have dont.

Music Player (WMP 11 alternative)
There is no alternative to WMP11. The best player available is amarok. It has some awesome features but it still doesnt have the full listing view which wmp has and cant play music videos and I have lots of music videos. Amarok 2 will support videos. Donno when it will be out

Fonts:
1. Even after installing msft non-free fonts , webpages, window titles and everthing doesn't look the right. 
2. Sub-pixels smoothing seem to bold the text a bit. But some webpages dont look right because they were made with windows in mind.
3. Linux lacks tahoma, so i copied from xp partition.
4. Useless effort. cleartype is sorely missed.

Performance:
I find windows xp faster in certain scenarios and ubuntu in other scenarios.

Stability:
Although the OS itself is stable, the applications can crash.

torrrent:
Seriously, nothing in linux offers utorrent awesomeness.

Browsing:
1. Many important sites I visit need IE. I hate such sites.
2. Due to font issues, opera looks crappy.
3. Altough pages very close to windows, the browser lacks a lot of features which opera has. I tried using extensions to solve the issue. The plugins were of very low standards and I still miss opera.

I am not a windows fanboy. I am simply practical. I am willing to shift to ubuntu if it fixes its issues.
If anyone knows of any fixes, especially the font issues please tell me. I want webpages, toolbars and menus in opera to look just like they do in windows opera.
All these issues can only be solved if monopoly of Microsoft ends. I dont hate microsoft. But i hate the consequences of it monopoly. Its monopoly won't cease as long as crappy egoistic losers like apple are its main competitors. All the best software is made for windows because its the only OS. all webpages are made for microsoft's propriety fonts and hinting technology.
I hated ubuntu 6.06. Fedora 6 was way better. But ubuntu 6.10 has totally changed my outlook on unbuntu.
But right now windows XP is the king of quality computer usage.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> I wanted to switch to ubuntu 7.1 and make it my main OS. Keep xp for gaming.
> Following issues made it complicated or impossible:
> Graphics Drivers:
> 1. without graphics drivers my screen is shifted left outside viewable area of CRT. Also the fan is always on and making too much noise.
> ...


Most of your "issues" are not issues. they are just ignorance. Ask in the OSS forum if you need answers.


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> Most of your "issues" are not issues. they are just ignorance. Ask in the OSS forum if you need answers.



I did all the asking and searching. I never did this much asking and searching for anything else ever. I have also been checking this every 6 months and I see improvement in other areas but some areas cannot improve because linux is linux. It will take a looot of time. Tell me how a free linux can be supported by all websites, software, codecs etc etc when linux is small percentage of users. Tell me WMP11 alternative, tell me k-lite mega codec pack alternative and utorrent alternative. Beofre mentioning the software, remember if its as fast, has as many features and supports as many codecs etc. How do I get cleartype and windows like font hinting to see the webpages the way they are meant to be seen. Obviously installing drivers in windows is easier than linux if they exist in the first case. internet connection wizard easier than pppoe-conf. In certain situations (resuming from hibernate), windows task scheduler better than linux at. Windows is easier because, I can troubleshoot any problem i get, completely customise it to my use and i dont know DOS, and any of the scripting languages. I know shell programming and lots of bash shell commands. I still find it difficult. I have also done linux 6 months course in my college and I was in top 5 of 300 students by the end of the semester and scored full in practical exams. I still find it very difficult (take long time to search, understand and implement) to customise various things.


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> I did all the asking and searching. I never did this much asking and searching for anything else ever. I have also been checking this every 6 months and I see improvement in other areas but some areas cannot improve because linux is linux. It will take a looot of time. Tell me how a free linux can be supported by all websites, software, codecs etc etc when linux is small percentage of users. Tell me WMP11 alternative, tell me k-lite mega codec pack alternative and utorrent alternative. Beofre mentioning the software, remember if its as fast, has as many features and supports as many codecs etc. How do I get cleartype and windows like font hinting to see the webpages the way they are meant to be seen. Obviously installing drivers in windows is easier than linux if they exist in the first case. internet connection wizard easier than pppoe-conf. In certain situations (resuming from hibernate), windows task scheduler better than linux at. Windows is easier because, I can troubleshoot any problem i get, completely customise it to my use and i dont know DOS, and any of the scripting languages. I know shell programming and lots of bash shell commands. I still find it difficult. I have also done linux 6 months course in my college and I was in top 5 of 300 students by the end of the semester and scored full in practical exams. I still find it very difficult (take long time to search, understand and implement) to customise various things.



Easier to do this in Windows.. .easier to do that in windows.. blah.. blah.. blah.. blah..

*If you have forgotten what you said, then please repeat after me:*



			
				adithyagenius said:
			
		

> 1) People have unique requirements, learning curve, time to spend learning and customising, money etc for their software.
> 2) The software that I use is not the best for every individual in the universe.
> 3) Forcing my software choice upon people with ridiculous bandwagonism and fanboying is immature.This is only going to make people hate my software and make me look ridiculous. This might also force people to avoid conversing with me.



*PWNED!! *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/19.gif*


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:
			
		

> Easier to do this in Windows.. .easier to do that in windows.. blah.. blah.. blah.. blah..
> 
> *If you have forgotten what you said, then please repeat after me:*
> 
> ...


How is that pwned. You are supporting me. The threads purpose is to pwn windows saying linux is easier. I am giving the best example where windows is better, me.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> How is that pwned. You are supporting me. The threads purpose is to pwn windows saying linux is easier. I am giving the best example where windows is better, me.



Listen buddy, you didn't learn windows in a day, It would have taken you atleast 5 years using windows to use it like you are using it today, so using Linux for few days or months and not being able to do what you want to do and saying that it's sooo hard is more to do with your ignorance like @metalhead said.

Nobody learns how to use an operating system overnight, you were once a noob on windows when you found everything so difficult, the same is happening when you started using Linux, there's nothing amazing in this. One more thing is that Linux is not windows, so don't keep saying that you can find the canel or ok button in a dialog box in Linux.

Use Linux for 6months to 1yr regulary, then you come and try to tell us how hard linux is for you then... you'll laugh at yourself if you still find it difficult by then.


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## zyberboy (Dec 26, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> Most of your "issues" are not issues. they are just ignorance. Ask in the OSS forum if you need answers.



So u know all the answers to his query to call him ignorant??
Then at least give a solution to one of his issue


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:
			
		

> Listen buddy, you didn't learn windows in a day, It would have taken you atleast 5 years using windows to use it like you are using it today, so using Linux for few days or months and not being able to do what you want to do and saying that it's sooo hard is more to do with your ignorance like @metalhead said.
> 
> Nobody learns how to use an operating system overnight, you were once a noob on windows when you found everything so difficult, the same is happening when you started using Linux, there's nothing amazing in this. One more thing is that Linux is not windows, so don't keep saying that you can find the canel or ok button in a dialog box in Linux.
> 
> Use Linux for 6months to 1yr regulary, then you come and try to tell us how hard linux is for you then... you'll laugh at yourself if you still find it difficult by then.



When I was learning windows, I didnt know computers either. After I got a computer my teacher gave only these instructions " Computers are not what they show on TV. Pressing wrong button wont make it explode. Read every instruction carefully." I only ran the windows graphics tutorial fr 1 hour. I learnt every nook and corner of control panel and system within in weeks. I learnt only about computer features rather than os after that. I didn't know kernel, shells and all such concepts till I started to learn linux. I am one of the 3 administartors of Student file servers of my college which runs ancient version of ubuntu with apache. I am very impressed with various things in linux expecially BASH. Few of my seniors use linux for 80% of the time. I wanted to see linux could do personal things like music, games, movies and browsing better. I asked them for personal usage software like. All the suggestions I got from them and from all over queries and search over internet were softwares which were inferior in UI and features and capabilities. Even OSS software like media player classic are windows only. One of my seniors (a open-mined linux fanboy) told me linux is for people for whom professional things are of higher priority than personal entertainment software and they are ready to adjust with music players and browsing quality to have linux's versitality. Few people in my batch , just like me, has linux installed as second OS only for learning, while everyone else has it on virtual box and vmware for same reason.
Linux is not limited in personal entertainment domain by its capabilities but because of its market share causing developers to focus on windows and ignore linux.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

^^ I got your point, but you lost the point..

this thread is about ease of use and not about unavailability of software.

You posted in this thread stating that this sofware is not available.. that sofware is not available.. and etc.. etc.. which was and still is out of topic.


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## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:
			
		

> ^^ I got your point, but you lost the point..
> 
> this thread is about ease of use and not about unavailability of software.
> 
> You posted in this thread stating that this sofware is not available.. that sofware is not available.. and etc.. etc.. which was and still is out of topic.



Its the core of ease of use. Availability of drivers, availability of easy to use and feature rich software removes all the tinkering and googling and troubleshooting. I spent many hours copying all the font settings like font name, size and other things. Copying them to linux. Changing in opera and appearance the font settings. So that webpages and software mainly made for windows look normal in linux. But I still failed.
Lack of decent graphics card drivers with easy setup made me spend a lot of time installing them using console. The kernel was recompiled. If the kernel gets updated from update manager my x server will crash. I will have to again go through the damn process of reinstalling drivers.
Lack of decent sound drivers made me test my 5.1 using volume sliders instead of simply pressing test speakers of realtek sound panel.
Lack of a true WMP 11 alternative made me use amarok for songs. But for vidoes I had to go through the maze of subfolders to view my fav videos due to lakc of support for videos. I couldn't even play some videos despite installing codec packs. I have to indivdually search for codecs on net and find out that some are still windows only.


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## anantkhaitan (Dec 26, 2007)

@adithya


> Codecs..... Music Player ...


Have you ever tried mplayer.. Atleast for me nothing stands before mplayer.


> Performance:...


XP performing better?? you must be joking..


> Stability:...


Can you expect a M$ system without Ctrl+Alt+Del 


> torrrent:...


checkout µTorrent's site ..where it clearly mentioned : 
*Download µTorrent now - It's Free.
For Wine, Wi..................*


> Browsing:.............


User Agent Switcher...........


> Graphics Drivers: and other eye candy stuffs......


no ideas


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## iMav (Dec 26, 2007)

man do these lin guys understand out of the box and ease of use at all  or they just keep on babling stuff


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## ring_wraith (Dec 26, 2007)

Let's face it, the GUI was invented to make computers simple to use. Linux still requires the Command line for several things, whereas windows doesn't. Are you telling me it's easier to "sudo apt-get install xxx" than double click?


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## Hitboxx (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Let's face it, the GUI was invented to make computers simple to use. Linux still requires the Command line for several things, whereas windows doesn't. Are you telling me it's easier to "*sudo apt-get install xxx*" than double click?


 sudo apt-get install xxx => installs from the net in one go

double click? from the net?

How would you install a package from the net? Lets see, 
1) Fire up your browser
2) point your browser to the download page, 
3) download it
4) double click.

You tell me which is *easy*. 

Both OS's have their plus and minus, its stupid to argue, use what you're comfortable and be done with it.


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## gary4gar (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Let's face it, the GUI was invented to make computers simple to use. Linux still requires the Command line for several things, whereas windows doesn't. Are you telling me it's easier to "sudo apt-get install xxx" than double click?


dude, linux offers one click software installions, whereas in windows you have to search,download & install

in Ubuntu 7.10 to install mplayer, you just need to click here:CLICK ME TO INSTALL MPLAYER
then it will automactically search,download,install,configure etc etc by just a single click.


Can anything be simple than this??


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## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

anantkhaitan said:
			
		

> @adithya
> 
> Have you ever tried mplayer.. Atleast for me nothing stands before mplayer.
> 
> ...


Media player - any media player will do if I have to browse to the file and play. I want media library with polished UI. I have 73GB of music and vidoes. Amarok is the best suggestion I got. Amarok 2 is supposed to be the true WMP 11 alternative but it is under development. I am also having problems with getting all the codec which k-lite mega codec pack provides. many of my vids are not playing.

Performance - I have checked fps in UT2004. I could compress 3 gb file faster by 17 seconds. virtual dub is also faster but this could be because I only tried out a single reencoder. Only 7zip compression was faster on linux. But that compressed file was not opening in windows xp. I am not saying that linux is faster than windows everywhere. All this is the result of hardware support and optimising for os. we use apache on ubuntu for file server because we can remove shut down the xserver to make it dedicated machine. But for my personal use I am finding linux slow in starting applications and file compression.

Stability- on fedora 5 and 6 linux keeps crashing when sound events are played. It is so bad that I am unable to switch to other consoles to do something about it. In windows atleast ctrl-alt-del exists. I know this is the fault of onboard sound card from realtek. but as per valve's survey, realtek onboard is the most used soundcard among steam users. Again the fault of support from 3rd party. Even on my HCL laptop which is redhat certified, ubuntu 6.06 was simply unusable becasue it was hanging more than unpatched windows 98 approx( every 20 mins).

utorrent - I tried using uttorent in wine in ubuntu 7.10. Its so screwed that I felt its better to use opera's built in torrent.

user agent extension- thats a firefox extension. I dont use firefox due to lack of features. I tried getting the missing features but they are just too unpolished and do not behave correctly. I was forced to download opera for linux. I need some help with fonts. any help will be appreciated.


@Linboys
I am expecting lots of flames. Please be open-minded and provide better suggestions. to be honest, I have been spending a lot of trying to make linux as good as windows in personal use, so that I can fully switch to it for everything except games.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

ring_wraith said:
			
		

> Are you telling me it's easier to "sudo apt-get install xxx" than double click?


This is what most WinFOOLS don't understand.

They think that sudo apt-get install = double click in windows!!

Dude, when you do sudo apt-get install mplayer, it finds the software, downloads it and installs it which in windows is open IE, get to site www.xxxxxx.com, click download, click on save, choose save to desktop, close dialog box or click on run, installation starts, click next 10times, select your program files directory, select your preferences of leaving shortcut on desktop, click finish!!!!

When will you fools understand this, the command line does 10-20jobs in one line which you do 20 different times in windows, so shut your pie holes about double clicking instead of sudo-apt install!! 

I'm not being rude, just angry at the ignorance of these winboys!!


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## iMav (Dec 26, 2007)

gary4gar said:
			
		

> Can anything be simple than this??


 er.......... yes there is something simpler than this:

ur bloody OS which already comes with a media player with a great media library


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## Hitboxx (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> Media player - any media player will do if I have to browse to the file and play. *I want media library with polished UI*. I have 73GB of music and vidoes. Amarok is the best suggestion I got. Amarok 2 is supposed to be the true WMP 11 alternative but it is under development. I am also having problems with getting all the codec which k-lite mega codec pack provides. many of my vids are not playing.
> 
> Performance - I have checked fps in UT2004. I could compress 3 gb file faster by 17 seconds. virtual dub is also faster but this could be because I only tried out a single reencoder. Only 7zip compression was faster on linux. But that compressed file was not opening in windows xp. I am not saying that linux is faster than windows everywhere. All this is the result of hardware support and optimising for os. we use apache on ubuntu for file server because we can remove shut down the xserver to make it dedicated machine. *But for my personal use I am finding linux slow in starting applications and file compression*.
> 
> ...


 You see a pattern here? So what do you want us to do? 

*You* don't find them polished enough for *you*, *you* don't find them full of features *you* like, *your* HCL laptop is RedHat certified not Ubuntu certified, *you* think Firefox lacks features...

*You* don't find the things *you* want in Linux, _don't use Linux_. As simple as that. Why the argument

Edit: No flames here, we're just wiser.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

Hitboxx said:
			
		

> You see a pattern here? So what do you want us to do?
> 
> *You* don't find them polished enough for *you*, *you* don't find them full of features *you* like, *your* HCL laptop is RedHat certified not Ubuntu certified, *you* think Firefox lacks features...
> 
> *You* don't find the things *you* want in Linux, _don't use Linux_. As simple as that. Why the argument



Forget it man.. he's not getting the point...


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## adithyagenius (Dec 26, 2007)

Hitboxx said:
			
		

> Edit: No flames here, we're just wiser.



that statement is enough to show you are fanboy (opposite of wise if you don't know).

In this forum , all linux users seem to be fanboys who think linux is better than everything  in every situation.
Sincerely, I got more knowledge of linux from others forums and got zilch from this forum because fanboys gives only distorted knowledge and true linux users (using linux for genuine reasons and not because of fanboyism) give the true knowledge.

You guys have a lot of growing up to do.
Me leaving thise pointless discussion...


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## x3060 (Dec 26, 2007)

early we only had one "imaeoo" to fight , 
look now...we have another one too..yay!!!!!
just kidding guys .

oh yeah, windows is the best o.s in the world..., tell these guys to get it in their head mate 
an o.s made for all...(Aliens)


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 26, 2007)

adithyagenius said:
			
		

> that statement is enough to show you are fanboy (opposite of wise if you don't know).
> 
> In this forum , all linux users seem to be fanboys who think linux is better than everything  in every situation.
> Sincerely, I got more knowledge of linux from others forums and got zilch from this forum because fanboys gives only distorted knowledge and true linux users (using linux for genuine reasons and not because of fanboyism) give the true knowledge.
> ...



Yes, this discussion was pointless, because you started it!

Fine, we all are fanboys, and this forums sucks because no one helps you with linux, then I think you should not only stop using linux, but also get your a$$ out of this forum because you think it sucks. At one point when you wrote about the fanboy thing, I though you would be knowledgable, but after seeing your arguments, we understand that its to do with your absolute ignorance.... thanks for the entertainment anyways...


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## d1g1t (Dec 26, 2007)

I'd been using windows since I was about 10. and I've lost count of how many times I called the computer people to fix it, and later re-installed literally tens of times. I even remember how windows gave the "please re-install" on boot, even before any of my sharewares expired.

I gave ubuntu a try. I felt all apps were better (Ones I used). No crashes at all. No reinstallation. No need to visit warez/crack sites and download more viruses than what you were searching for. Almost every software is free and is downloadable from command line/synaptic

Honestly, If I had enough cash to buy, say, Windows Vista, I'd rather go for a hardware upgrade than buy software that have great Free or Open Source alternatives. Now I rarely use windows except for the occasional gaming session.



Most linux users are windows users who shifted to linux and felt nux was better. So they just want everyone to try it. I recommend it to all my friends. Most won't convert. Why? They expect it to be a clone of windows.

So like Hitboxx said, If YOU want it to be windows, which it isn't. Don't use it.

fanboyism? don't think so.


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## x3060 (Dec 26, 2007)

the problem is some people dont get things right . if Linux were another windows , there wont be a Linux , it will be called WINDOWS . there are limitations to each and every thing in life , so what do we do ???
1. we live with it 
2.we try to make things better 
3.we skip it .
4.we destroy it . 
i cant think of any other options . . . i believe we are all given the same option . just choose one and move on .


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 27, 2007)

I dunno why but I feel all the Linux users in this thread were rude to Adithya. Yes, things can be extremely frustrating on unsupported hardware. So, if you haf an unsupported hardware, no point in cribbing about it.

Adithya, create a new thread with your queries. Dunno about anyone else, but at least I will try to help you in my capacity  I may not be regular to post, plz bear with me.

BTW, I've really had a bad experience installing Vista on an Acer Laptop and Fedora on an HP Laptop today! But I'll save the post for some other day


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 27, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> I dunno why but I feel all the Linux users in this thread were rude to Adithya. Yes, things can be extremely frustrating on unsupported hardware. So, if you haf an unsupported hardware, no point in cribbing about it.
> 
> Adithya, create a new thread with your queries. Dunno about anyone else, but at least I will try to help you in my capacity  I may not be regular to post, plz bear with me.
> 
> BTW, I've really had a bad experience installing Vista on an Acer Laptop and Fedora on an HP Laptop today! But I'll save the post for some other day



Atleast I wasn't trying to be rude with him man. Like I mentioned before, I though his post about open mindness was because he was like that, but from his posts, it clearly states otherwise. He was trying to use open source with a closed mind, how many of us linux users haven't helped here? u tell me, we even helped the all time fanboy Imav to get linux running on his system which I believe he is using more than windows now.

The point is, adthiya was just spewing his frustration on linux users here calling them fanboys and what not, he hit the peak of his patience not finding success with what he was trying to achieve which was to make Linux be windows. We're more than happy to help anyone with open source so long as their minds are also open.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 27, 2007)

> 1. without graphics drivers my screen is shifted left outside viewable area of CRT. Also the fan is always on and making too much noise.


Whats your display? Better yet whats your configuration. 


> 2. I enable restricted drivers by downloading it from net using apt-get. But it doesn't come with the control panel.


What exactly are you trying to do and what do you meant by Control Panel? Are you looking for something like RivaTuner?


> 2. Common codecs work but many I have dont.


Elaborate . What files *can't* you play.


> There is no alternative to WMP11. The best player available is amarok. It has some awesome features but it still doesnt have the full listing view which wmp has and cant play music videos and I have lots of music videos. Amarok 2 will support videos. Donno when it will be out


I don't know if this will help you but check this out. *www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=41435 . By the way when you say full list what exactly are you missing thats not in the Collection Pane? I haven't used WMP11 so I'm not quite sure. 


> 1. Even after installing msft non-free fonts , webpages, window titles and everthing doesn't look the right.


Yeah I find this kind of annoying at first. Infra-Red_Dude has a screencap of his settings which look pretty good to me in one of iMavs threads I think IN Open Source you should be able to find that in there. 


> Although the OS itself is stable, the applications can crash.


I found this to happen more when you try to Install KDE apps on Gnome  without the Window Manager. I can't confirm that but Ive noticed the only applications crashes I have had is from Amarok (KDE) After installing Exaile it works fine. 


> Seriously, nothing in linux offers utorrent awesomeness.


Care to explain on this please? 


> I did all the asking and searching. I never did this much asking and searching for anything else ever. I have also been checking this every 6 months and I see improvement in other areas but some areas cannot improve because linux is linux.It will take a looot of time.


"Because Linux is Linux" ? Seriously, that is the strangest reason I have heard for a person to think Linux wont improve in a certain area. Have you ever tried the #Ubuntu Channel on IRC or posted something on Linuxquestions.org ? You usually get pretty quick responses for both. Hell even the responses in thinkdigit.com/forum is pretty fast. 


> Tell me how a free linux can be supported by all websites, software, codecs etc etc when linux is small percentage of user


With such a small client base it made you try it out still. I wonder why? If products are bad they tend to get killed prematurely. In basic words if something sucks it sucks the chances are it will die out in a year or so. I wonder how long some distros have been in the market. 


> a open-mined linux fanboy


Theres no such thing as an *open-minded* fanboy. If you're a fanboy youre not open minded whether you use Linux, Windows,Unix , etc.


> I spent many hours copying all the font settings like font name, size and other things. Copying them to linux. Changing in opera and appearance the font settings. So that webpages and software mainly made for windows look normal in linux.


Actually isn't there a way just to copy the settings from one system to another? Like backing it up? 


> I am expecting lots of flames. Please be open-minded and provide better suggestions. to be honest, I have been spending a lot of trying to make linux as good as windows in personal use, so that I can fully switch to it for everything except games.


Why make the switch at all. You obviously want "something like" Windows which obviously you wont find. If you want help on an individual topic post the topic. As of now I found the True type font thread but I already said what to do above.


> that statement is enough to show you are fanboy (opposite of wise if you don't know).


I wouldn't say that hes a fanboy cause he's not asking you to use Linux. Hes in fact saying exactly what I said. You obviously want something thats like Windows since it doesn't suit you. Well if it doesn't work for you stop installing it. It will save you tonnes of aggravation. By the way Off topic hitboxx is much much more proficient at Linux then you think. 


> In this forum , all linux users seem to be fanboys who think Linux is better than everything in every situation.


I'm an Ubuntu User, think I'm a fanboy? Well even if you do then thats your perception and you are entitled to it. Personally I really don't care. 


> Sincerely, I got more knowledge of Linux from others forums and got zilch from this forum because fanboys gives only distorted knowledge and true Linux users (using Linux for genuine reasons and not because of fanboyism) give the true knowledge.


Very debatable.  This theory work vice versa as well mate? Although I'm kind of offended that you feel that every Linuser in this forum *seems to be a fanboy* and further go on saying that fanboys give out distorted knowledge? 
However you know what is funny? The irony is most folks who bought Windows come to forums for answers.You didn't pay squat for Linux yet you question the validity of the knowledge given to you?


----------



## iMav (Dec 27, 2007)

i will watch this 1 from the sidelines  aditya ne toh le li tum sab ki  sahi hai boss .... its god to see that its not only me but other normal day to day users also facing problems in linux - the same problems that me and gx hav been pointing out to and those problems being rubbished as anti-linux by lin boys


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## x3060 (Dec 27, 2007)

good to see you here . too bad praka is not here


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## krates (Dec 29, 2007)

Hehe aditya ne ton saare point clear kar diye 

which we were hesitating to write because they were too big even an ebook can  be made on it


----------



## krates (Dec 29, 2007)

Hehe aditya ne ton saare point clear kar diye 

which we were hesitating to write because they were too big even an ebook can  be made on it


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 29, 2007)

when will these winboys ever understand...


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## praka123 (Dec 29, 2007)

I think if that fellow cannot get his hardware supported,he have to try supports from community in a separate thread.Why do he want to call all Linux users fanboys?I am not a fanboy to be frank,when if you really meet me once and see my way of operation  I am defending Linux from the FUDs of winboys.that's all.and ....i think i am trying to help FOSS and GNU/Linux movers some help hope many in OSS section knows that!
dont throw ur frustration to Linux users.


			
				d1g1t said:
			
		

> Most linux users are windows users who shifted to linux and felt nux was better. So they just want everyone to try it. I recommend it to all my friends. Most won't convert. Why? They expect it to be a clone of windows.
> 
> So like Hitboxx said, If YOU want it to be windows, which it isn't. Don't use it.
> 
> fanboyism? don't think so.


Very Very True


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## Who (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi guys, i have a question no offense, but what difference this thread is making in the world ?

  Thanks in advance ...


----------



## FilledVoid (Dec 29, 2007)

> Hi guys, i have a question no offense, but what difference this thread is making in the world ?



Let me use couple of words to explain ... Nothing, Zilch, Nada, Kuntham (In Malayalam .)


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## krates (Dec 29, 2007)

This thread is just causing awareness


----------



## Garbage (Dec 29, 2007)

kushagra_krates@yahoo.com said:


> This thread is just causing awareness


awareness to WHOM ?? Fanboys ??


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 29, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> Dude, when you do sudo apt-get install mplayer, it finds the software, downloads it and installs it which in windows is open IE, get to site www.xxxxxx.com, click download, click on save, choose save to desktop, close dialog box or click on run, installation starts, click next 10times, select your program files directory, select your preferences of leaving shortcut on desktop, click finish!!!!


 

Plz read what I wrote several pages back. What about giving the users a choice to configure the installation. Like Installing only WMA support in Winamp & not m4a support (example)

For example, when U install something in Linux, it installs everything, every module whether u need it or not. Windows method of Microsoft Installer gives the user choice during installation. We can chose to install 3ds Max (A big installation) on D:\ drive away from usual c:\program files, can u do that in Linux?



			
				exx said:
			
		

> Whats your display? Better yet whats your configuration


 
I guess it's not Linux compatible.


----------



## Garbage (Dec 29, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Plz read what I wrote several pages back. What about giving the users a choice to configure the installation. Like Installing only WMA support in Winamp & not m4a support (example)
> 
> For example, when U install something in Linux, it installs everything, every module whether u need it or not. Windows method of Microsoft Installer gives the user choice during installation. We can chose to install 3ds Max (A big installation) on D:\ drive away from usual c:\program files, can u do that in Linux?



I think, u boyz were talking about ONE CLICK INSTALL in WINDOWS some time before. Don't you ??


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 29, 2007)

@saurav: what nonsence? In Linux, just go to synaptic package manager and see for yourself the choice. You can choose what you want from almost anything. For example, I removed vlc-plugin-esd because it was useless for me.


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## Garbage (Dec 29, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Plz read what I wrote several pages back. What about giving the users a choice to configure the installation. Like Installing only WMA support in Winamp & not m4a support (example)
> 
> For example, when U install something in Linux, it installs everything, every module whether u need it or not. Windows method of Microsoft Installer gives the user choice during installation. We can chose to install 3ds Max (A big installation) on D:\ drive away from usual c:\program files, can u do that in Linux?



I think, u boyz were talking about *ONE CLICK INSTALL* in WINDOWS some time before. Don't you ?? 
So, I think, *u need another click for SELECTION !!*


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 29, 2007)

Garbage said:


> I think, u boyz were talking about *ONE CLICK INSTALL* in WINDOWS some time before. Don't you ??
> So, I think, *u need another click for SELECTION !!*


Good one


----------



## infra_red_dude (Dec 29, 2007)

@GX
I guess that issue has been dealt with before. If you prefer one-click install nothing beats the GNU/Linux way. If you prefer to haf more options in GUI while installation nothing beats the Windows way 

Btw, those multiple install options are also available in Linux but it requires editing of the config files, which I surely the n00bs won't be comfortable with, so we'll take ignore it for you and declare the Windows way as the easiest here 

Plz do not start posting the same thing again. If you haf something new then do post in, if not then plz do not bloat the forum!


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## iMav (Dec 29, 2007)

1 click install  thats more of a jke to the socalled fully customizable OS where u cant even choose the destination where u want to install an application; 1 click installation  cant even choose the compos wanted from 1 location and metal head choosing the compos while installation is a well implemented feature in all 'for windows' applications not to forget that windows setup has license agreements to be read courtesy app developer and not windows


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## Garbage (Dec 29, 2007)

Me always think, why iMav can't stick to one thing. Firstly he said one thing and next time, says exactly opposite !!

iMav, can u please explain what ur this post mean to this poor guy ??


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 29, 2007)

iMav said:


> 1 click install  thats more of a jke to the socalled fully customizable OS where u cant even choose the destination where u want to install an application; 1 click installation  cant even choose the compos wanted from 1 location and metal head choosing the compos while installation is a well implemented feature in all 'for windows' applications not to forget that windows setup has license agreements to be read courtesy app developer and not windows





			
				Me said:
			
		

> @GX
> I guess that issue has been dealt with before. If you prefer one-click install nothing beats the GNU/Linux way. If you prefer to haf more options in GUI while installation nothing beats the Windows way
> 
> Btw, those multiple install options are also available in Linux but it requires editing of the config files, which I surely the n00bs won't be comfortable with, so we'll ignore it for you and declare the Windows way as the easiest here
> ...


You just seem to be trolling here.... and nothing else!

You want to select the components, install location, options and yet want a one click install!! Stop being unrealistic and read my post. If you haf nothing sensible to post then my sincere advice would be to stay away from this!


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## iMav (Dec 29, 2007)

i dont want a 1 click installation im just saying that 1 click install is rather stupid for a fully customizable OS


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 29, 2007)

^^^ That point has been accepted and agreed to long back and nobody's saying anything otherwise 

One-click install is good for n00bs for which they do not need to be bothered about destination folder etc., but bad from the PoV installing individual components means either separate packages or editing config files. For geeks its ok, but for a casual user its surely not.


----------



## Garbage (Dec 29, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i dont want a 1 click installation im just saying that 1 click install is rather stupid for a fully customizable OS



WTH !! :X


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## iMav (Dec 29, 2007)

point has been accepted no need to explain it to u


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 29, 2007)

^^^ I think I said the same thing!!!


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## praka123 (Dec 29, 2007)

HaooW!so alas @imeow removed Linux from his(or her?) partition and peace is prevailing in whole country  the president "Billy G"(raham?) awarded him a new copy of vista with free rootkits and drms and a hardened EULA explaining M$ owned software patents to save "humanity" to use as tissue paper 
{read twice!!!}
Oh kiddo's! i cant tolerate ur blind winfanboyism !I got a ban once(sry twice!) and u wanna make me a heart patient in this tender age of 28? 
FOSS rules! 8)


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## iMav (Dec 29, 2007)

praka123 said:


> HaooW!so alas @imeow removed Linux from his(or her?) partition


 nope its still there though havent gone into it for months 


praka123 said:


> the president "Billy G"(raham?) awarded him a new copy of vista with free rootkits and drms and a hardened EULA to use as tissue paper
> {read twice!!!}


 atleast i can play drm protvected files on my box can u  

Windows Rules


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## praka123 (Dec 29, 2007)

^bill is retiring.y dont u try ur luck  eh?
FOSS Rules 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 29, 2007)

praka123 said:


> ^bill is retiring.y dont u try ur luck  eh?
> FOSS Rules 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Bill has already retired! And I suggest you too retire from making provocative posts. Let him use whatever he wants, why start a war???

Save your heart and yourself, you are too young - tender age of 28. We need you for your links!!  (Seriously, you are our link generator!  And I'm proud of it)


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## d1g1t (Dec 29, 2007)

iMav: Did anyone force you to use Linux?

You know, you could just ignore it if you aren't compatible with nux


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

d1g1t said:


> iMav: Did anyone force you to use Linux?
> 
> You know, you could just ignore it if you aren't compatible with nux


 i can ignore the OS but cant ignore FUD 

and billy g might have retired from active duty but he still has a say in all major decisions


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## Garbage (Dec 30, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> and billy g might have retired from active duty but he still has a say in all major decisions



And thats why M$ is still there. OW....


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

@exx 2000
If you have read my posts properly, you would know that I have already solved the problems of display and mentioned how complicated graphic driver installation is. I have 17" CRT and XFX7600GT. If you got an easier way to do it, suggest it to me. I need the control panel like the one that comes with windows called NVIDIA Control Panel allowing me change basic settings.
I didn't call anyone fanboy because of "you stick to windows" but because "linux users are wisest" kind of smug posts.
Regarding me calling all linux users of this forum fanboys, I was speaking in hyperbole since most of the posts are simply like that lately. It could be a reaction to fanboyish posts of windows users or mac users which again might be reaction to fanboying posts of linux users. This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.

@infra red dude
thanks for you compassion man. I wasn't posting out of a recent ubuntu install frustration. I was posting from all the experience of 100+ linux installations of various computers and mostly laptops. I am actually happy that linux is difficult. I have learnt about computer, a lot more in past one year than 7 years of windows usage.Until ubuntu 7.1 got released Fedora was the easiest to get working due to better hardware support. I rarely visit forum because I am busy with college (30% of the working days have exams). I saw this thread claiming linux is easier than windows. I just wanted to post the other side of coin for benefit of windows users curious about linux. I just want them to be mentally prepared for issues or just stick to windows.
I have already made 3 threads in open source section recently asking for help. 2 threads remained empty and 3rd thread for firefox extensions having opera features, I got help from windows users.
Just to sum up all I have posted earlier. 
Despite Ubuntu 7.10 being very very good at hardware support, lack of good software for personal needs also adds to difficulty. I have already searched and asked in lots of forums and blogs regarding the following issues.
1. complicated graphics driver installation. Many hardware have features which can be accessed only on windows using windows drivers. I know this is due to windows monoppoly, but that does add to difficulty ex: APC UPS, many printers' special features, soundcards's control panel. Support for USB modems is less compared to windows. 1 year back, I couldn't expect onboard sound to work on linux but now that has atleast changed.
2. in windows, k-lite mega codec pack contains encoders and decoders of most popular formats+ less common but still required formats. But linux codec packs are only most popular formats. I have to individually hunt for each and every codec and compile install them. K-lite codec pack also provides GUI control panel for many codecs and ffdshow can be used to changed lots of settings.
3. WMP11 supports both video and audio and has very good media library and it works with k-lite mega codec pack. Linux doesn't have such software yet. Amarok 2 will be having those features and will be available on windows too. If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention. I was also surprised that even VLC player on linux wasn't playing many of my videos. I will post the codec list later.
4. Fonts are a problem for browsing. I tried copying all fonts from windows to ubuntu and changed settings of opera linux to match windows opera settings. Still "O" has very visible holes in it. I am still working on rectifying this problem.
5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.
6. utorrent and other good windows programs are easier to use in windows than in wine. Its better to use a native program. Such programs need to be ported to linux.
7. Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.

All these reasons have compelled my friends to format linux partitions and install linux using virtual box. This way they can work on CAD, c & shell programing on linux while listening to music and alt-tab browsing on windows. I have been using real linux install trying to find a way to make linux better than or equal to windows (in features and quality atlteast, I can tolerate commands to a good extent), so that I can switch to save money by buying cheapest windows versions for gaming purposes only.

My college is going to start and I have to start packing. I am going to be busy and may not post soon.


----------



## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

Nicely said. I too don't understand what people are trying to prove when they say windows is easy, mac is easy or linux is easy. When u get used to an OS, it becomes easy!

I dunno what nvidia problem u faced because of this darn repeated topic and u posting in it!! This might help. Since u r easy with scripts and commands I hope u wont whine like others.

But u have to know both the OSs are different. There are many things that are easy in Linux like synaptics, yum, wild cards, commands that increase efficiency etc. I too wud like customization in windows install. I wud like the power to be able to remove IE, windows activation, MS rootkits, disk defragement and be able to install anti-virus, anti-infection, 'working' firewall, start network services before GUI so that I can do alt-ctrl-F1 at login screen itself, working multi-messenger  etc etc. 

Surely this all is not user-friendliness but user-headache!! 



> Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.


I second that!



> 5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.


I learnt that from a lot of win-fanboys. But do u mind explaining in detail in ur own words how exactly?



> If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention. I was also surprised that even VLC player on linux wasn't playing many of my videos. I will post the codec list later.


Mplayer plays almost all the files. I say 'almost' coz I haven't found any file that it can't play yet!! The exact command on fedora wud be like 


```
yum -y install ffmpeg-libs gstreamer-plugins-bad libquicktime vlc-core akode-extras amarok-extras-nonfree gstreamer-ffmpeg gstreamer-plugins-bad-devel gstreamer-plugins-bad-extras k3b-extras-nonfree kdemultimedia-extras-nonfree mjpegtools-libs vlc xine-lib-extras-nonfree libmad libid3tag id3v2 mencoder mkvtoolnix mkvtoolnix-gui ffmpeg
```
I guess this will work. If not u can still add w32codecs to the line.




> All these reasons have compelled my friends to format linux partitions and install linux using virtual box. This way they can work on CAD, c & shell programing on linux while listening to music and alt-tab browsing on windows. I have been using real linux install trying to find a way to make linux better than or equal to windows (in features and quality atlteast, I can tolerate commands to a good extent), so that I can switch to save money by buying cheapest windows versions for gaming purposes only.


IMO, using wine wud be much better that using virtual box in terms of memory, speed and efficiency. At least that wud save u from E-Infections and all sort of buggin craps! Even the cheapest windows versions aren't without MS-Rootkits.

Sorry for not having posted on ur queries much coz this is not OPENSOURCE section but an entertainment zone and I agree bt the vicious circle.

Neways new year is approaching and I have to start packing. I am going to be busy and may not post soon.


----------



## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

mediator said:


> Nicely said. I too don't understand what people are trying to prove when they say windows is easy, mac is easy or linux is easy. When u get used to an OS, it becomes easy!


 
Plz tell the thread started this thing.


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## krates (Dec 30, 2007)

*Not windows  Not linux 

MAC IS THE BEST  

Now stop the fight 
*


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## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:


> Plz tell the thread started this thing.


I surrendered myself before u forget bt the thread then! Lets call for truce


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

adithyagenius said:


> I didn't call anyone fanboy because of "you stick to windows" but because "linux users are wisest" kind of smug posts.
> Regarding me calling all linux users of this forum fanboys, I was speaking in hyperbole since most of the posts are simply like that lately. It could be a reaction to fanboyish posts of windows users or mac users which again might be reaction to fanboying posts of linux users. This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.



So, are you saying that if you jump into a nest full of snakes and try to step on it ruthlessly that it should not bite you back?? *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif



adithyagenius said:


> 1. complicated graphics driver installation.



If you haven't done enough searching around, the please try this if you are looking for a one click install!!
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74845




adithyagenius said:


> Many hardware have features which can be accessed only on windows using windows drivers. I know this is due to windows monoppoly, but that does add to difficulty ex: APC UPS, many printers' special features, soundcards's control panel. Support for USB modems is less compared to windows. 1 year back, I couldn't expect onboard sound to work on linux but now that has atleast changed.



Are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??



adithyagenius said:


> 2. in windows, k-lite mega codec pack contains encoders and decoders of most popular formats+ less common but still required formats. But linux codec packs are only most popular formats. I have to individually hunt for each and every codec and compile install them. K-lite codec pack also provides GUI control panel for many codecs and ffdshow can be used to changed lots of settings.



I don't really understand why is it that people install the base version using a CD and expect everything working on it out of the box?? If you haven't tried the studio version, then it's high time, it's got pretty much all the codecs that I can think of.

Again, what is your argument here? Because you don't have additional features with codecs in Linux, it's harder to use??? Again, are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??



adithyagenius said:


> 3. WMP11 supports both video and audio and has very good media library and it works with k-lite mega codec pack. Linux doesn't have such software yet. Amarok 2 will be having those features and will be available on windows too. If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention. I was also surprised that even VLC player on linux wasn't playing many of my videos. I will post the codec list later.



Again, are we talking about ease of use or whining about unavailability??



adithyagenius said:


> 4. Fonts are a problem for browsing. I tried copying all fonts from windows to ubuntu and changed settings of opera linux to match windows opera settings. Still "O" has very visible holes in it. I am still working on rectifying this problem.



I don't really understand what your problem is? If you want everything to look like windows, then stop using Linux, and for the love of god, please stop your hard efforts to make Linux look like windows.

As far as Windows fonts installation is concerned, even after installing so many systems, I guess you haven't realized that this is not windows and it wont' work if you just copy paste the fonts!



adithyagenius said:


> 5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.



Just because you are used to MS Office doesn't make openoffice harder!



adithyagenius said:


> 6. utorrent and other good windows programs are easier to use in windows than in wine. Its better to use a native program. Such programs need to be ported to linux.



Again, you are whining about unavailability than ease of use! If you are talking about ease of use, for the love of god, please compare them with native programs!



adithyagenius said:


> 7. Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.



It's quite hard to believe that you say you been searching so much and can't find things, maybe you need to stop searching for windows type applications and search a bit more with an open mind.

Here's your GUI based GRUB!!
*grubconf.sourceforge.net/



adithyagenius said:


> I have been using real linux install trying to find a way to make linux better than or equal to windows (in features and quality atlteast, I can tolerate commands to a good extent),



Like I told, save your effort of trying to make Lindows!!

The moral of the story is that you and many other are so used to windows that you want everything to look feel and work like Windows. This is why Winboys hate MAC soooo much because it's so different from windows. The funny thing about these guys trying to work on linux is that, they have a lot more degree of control and customisation unlike MAC, and what do they do with all that customization? They first make their desktop look like a windows desktop, then they start to modifiy everything else to work like Winows!

I'm sorry guys, if you are looking for an alternate to Windows, then stop expecting it to work like Windows! The problem is that so many of you are so used to native windows apps that it's so hard for you to unlearn that app and learn a new one. This is the reason that we see most of them complaining that Openoffice is sooo much harder than MSOffice.

For those of you who have been working with linux for quite sometime will find pretty much everything easy. I'm sure adthiya can now easily run pretty much any command in the terminal, that's because he's used to it now. Similarly, windows users find everything easy  because they are used to it. Everything you do today is easy for you regardless of whether it's computers or anything else in your life. If you try to learn something new, it's always difficult in the beginning, how much pain did we all go through learning to ride a bicycle after several  hard tries, faling over, hurting ourselves.. but today it comes naturally so easily for us because we're used to it.

When people using windows look at linux, it seems so hard and difficult for them, but for those who've taken the ride and learnt from it, I can rightfully say that they haven't looked back.

As the great Cyrus_the_Virus once said or is saying: "Easiness comes with use"



gx_saurav said:


> Plz tell the thread started this thing.



The reason the thread was started is not to prove that Linux is easy but to dispell the myth "Linux is hard and windows is easy!"


----------



## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

cyrus try slacware  all ur bull sh1t ur typing is based on ubuntu give some of the other 10 thousand different useless linux distros out thr a try 

ubuntu is not equal to linux  ur talking like the frog who thinks his pond is the whole world 

windows being easy is not a myth it is easier and has been accepted by members  and linux being hard  aditya has proved our points of linux being stupid for day to day users 

once again ubuntu is not equal to linux


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

iMav said:


> cyrus try slacware  all ur bull sh1t ur typing is based on ubuntu give some of the other 10 thousand different useless linux distros out thr a try
> 
> ubuntu is not equal to linux  ur talking like the frog who thinks his pond is the whole world
> 
> ...



Thanks for enlightening me @imeov. 

*I respect your incompetence to understand the point.*


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> *I respect your incompetence to understand the point.*


  incompetence  and u have a point


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

1.JFYI,"nvidia-settings" is a gui control panel.just apt-get install it.
apc ups  :gapcmon - apcupsd monitor GUI 

apcupsd - APC UPS Power Management (daemon)
apcupsd-cgi - APC UPS Power Management (web interface)

2.printers:yes,there may be lack of support.still,
*openprinting.org

3,4.reg media formats,most of the codecs are supported.make sure gstreamer plugins et al are installed

5.Fonts:you have to enable anti-aliasing.and the default Gnome-GUI seems to work with only xorg drivers.for *nvidia* users,u have to append below lines in ur /etc/X11/xorg.conf  "device" section:
for eg; mine is below,add the underlined modlines:

```
Section "Device"
        Identifier      "nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7300 GT]"
        Driver          "nvidia"
        BusID           "PCI:1:0:0"
        Option          "AddARGBVisuals"        "True"
        Option          "AddARGBGLXVisuals"     "True"
        Option          "NoLogo"        "True"
        [U][B]Option          "UseEdidDpi"   "FALSE"[/B][/U]
        Option          "DPI"   "96 x 96"
EndSection
```
^that line was for setting dpi for my screen.and for fonts anti-aliasing:
Now,go to font preferences and press "details" option and make sure *hinting* is at "slight" or "medium".restart X and see.it works for me 

5.Open Office is improving and the paid version may be even better(star office) also IBM Lotus notes is available in Linux now.

6.try deluge-torrent which is easy.though i am using Azureus  

7.Ubuntu's Ubiquity GUI installer is for supported h/w's may be.but the alternate CD containing Debian installer with ncurses CLI gives all the options what ur referring to.

I have to say Linux is NOT windows holds true to you and your friends.dont expect alternate windows in Linux.that part may be the reason for ur disgruntlment. 
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
I think most of the things u mentioned may be having solution.


----------



## krates (Dec 30, 2007)

^^^ setting the screen resolution is custom work 

I have 3 printer all are unsuppoted 

Have you ever read there documentation *openprinting.org

it is easier to install windows and then print document and then uninstall it 

and the linux fan boys are not ready to listen to truth

Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface

i still remember the day when i have switched to linux and i have made 

several query and after that i was handed over a link which was teaching 

me* linux is not windows *WT*

Most of the company's offer windows with new computer because they too know that if they will hand linux to the buyer they will call them regularly asking thousands of questions

I agree that linux is also distributed but it is only distributed to lower the cost of comp 

Now lemme tell you linux is free that is why it is used if it was paid then you must have thrown that os since ages


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

@cyrus
how many times should I say unaivalability of easy to use programs for ubuntu is totally relevant. Unavailability of features is also relevant because these features convert multiple steps into one step which according me is making easier. Regarding downloading a tool to change my grub settings, I guess its better to use "sudo gedit menu.lst". I tried envy but wastes bandwidth for every install. better to use official drivers which can be downloaded once and share with everyone.
regarding studio version.. the codecs available along with it. Are they available as a separate package for standard ubuntu 7.1 users? I don't care about out of the box much. Even windows requires k-lite mega codec pack to be installed.

@everyone
I am not trying to make linux into windows. I am trying to make ubuntu 7.1 on my system into an OS with decent media player, good browsing experience and excellent support for codecs. You guys define such an OS as windows?
Regarding the explanation for why office 2007 is better than openoffice- In my last semester I had to do some reports and presentations. I have no experience in word processing or presentations except for making lion come and fart and go away. I spent 1 hour trying open-office org. I was spending more time searching trough boxes and menus. I tried office 2003 and it was the same. I got 3 trial version CDs from MS. Office 2007 was way too easy with learning curve of 5 mins. I got very high marks in my reports (highests in all) and presentations (highest and 2nd highest).

@praka
thanks. your answers seem to be the ones I haven't tried yet. I will try them out after shifting to hostel. I think I have enabled Anti aliasing using nvidia panel. I also change DPI settings to correct values and tried slight hinting. I dont know if the command-line method you have suggested is the round about way of doing it. But I will find out.
Good to know that openoffice.org is progressing. I hope foss guys come up with something noob friendly like office 2k7 without getting into patent issues.
I know of CLI based installation. but I felt its easier to do GUI installation and batch remove the useless stuff through add/remove GUI than to spend time typing and learning CLI. I was actually looking for a DVD version like Fedora guys give. It contains the development libraries and compilers and hence saves bandwidth. Ubuntu seems to be missing those and I have to download them everytime I reinstall.


----------



## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

> ^^^ setting the screen resolution is custom work
> 
> I have 3 printer all are unsuppoted
> 
> ...


I agree. Probably the reason why VISTA is known to be a big flop and the crowd is moving to *nix! 



			
				kush_kates said:
			
		

> Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface





> Most of the company's offer windows with new computer because they too know that if they will hand linux to the buyer they will call them regularly asking thousands of questions


You shud read Tarla Dalal instead of talking holy nuisance.


----------



## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

i thought the fight was over , and everything calmed down , but hell , i was wrong 
i love a good fight .


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## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

> I have no experience in word processing or presentations except for making lion come and fart and go away. I spent 1 hour trying open-office org. I was spending more time searching trough boxes and menus. I tried office 2003 and it was the same. I got 3 trial version CDs from MS. Office 2007 was way too easy with learning curve of 5 mins. I got very high marks in my reports (highests in all) and presentations (highest and 2nd highest).


I must say u r the chosen one! U had no experience in word processing or 'presentations' and u got highest and second highest?  Its like our goddess Sonia became an ace in martial arts in one day and defeated brucelee the 2nd day. I thought u'd be experienced a lot to be able to enlighten us the differences in some convincing manner! WTH


----------



## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

ha ha hahahaha....

we are getting end of the year jokes here


----------



## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

mediator said:


> I must say u r the chosen one! U had no experience in word processing or 'presentations' and u got highest and second highest?  Its like our goddess Sonia became an ace in martial arts in one day and defeated brucelee the 2nd day. I thought u'd be experienced a lot to be able to enlighten us the differences in some convincing manner! WTH



Unfortunately no college-mate of mine is here to confirm my marks. If you think open-office.org is easier than office 2k7 to a total newcomer, you are one of the special cases.
I just read your link. I had issues with files stored in doc format I downloaded from govt sites. Although they could be put in html or txt, they used doc. Need spread awareness about propriety format.


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## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

honestly , for me , notepad is the easiest one..
my typing needs are restricted to notepads.
and if i had to i use abby word.., well , i don't do write ups or presentations.


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## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

> Unfortunately no college-mate of mine is here to confirm my marks. If you think open-office.org is easier than office 2k7 to a total newcomer, you are one of the special cases.


U don't need to whine bt ur marks. You can enter any fictitious number though! I wud still believe you. 
I Just asked differences as I thought u'd be an expert since u opined so confidently that Office 2k7 > OOO. Sorry for being a special case and  thinking of u as an office literate who I guess can become an expert in any field, in any time and wheneva he wants. I dint say OOO > 2k7 did I? So please don't hallucinate unnecessarily!


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

x3060 said:


> honestly , for me , notepad is the easiest one..
> my typing needs are restricted to notepads.
> and if i had to i use abby word.., well , i don't do write ups or presentations.



I actually planned to write my report in notepad. But my technical report writing teacher was visiting faculty from ICFAI business school HYD. She wanted various levels of headings, with various indentations and lots of minute details. Each visual aid had to be labeled.. you get the idea.


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

@adithya:this is NOT for you:
learning curve:for a pro-fanatic windows user,Linux usage is nothing but whining for every feature of windows.I feel dont look at the clean Ubuntu or Fedora Gnome Desktop.instead,try learning the new operating system.give ur one week or two trying to stick with a user friendly distro like Ubuntu,Fedora etc.and not but the least,be prepared to use Terminal bash shell for any fixup's which needs using terminal.google for a shell intro.hardly 6 or 7 commands u need to remember.all commands are auto-completed by pressing TAB key after typing few words.

the term Linux is NOT Windows make sense,as people who are windows blinded can not stop expecting windowish behaviour from Linux!hence the link i gave is helpful!


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

mediator said:


> U don't need to whine bt ur marks. You can enter any fictitious number though! I wud still believe you.
> I Just asked differences as I thought u'd be an expert since u opined so confidently that Office 2k7 > OOO. Sorry for being a special case and  thinking of u as an office literate who I guess can become an expert in any field, in any time and wheneva he wants. I dint say OOO > 2k7 did I? So please don't hallucinate unnecessarily!



I never said I am expert in office. For quickly getting work done without doing crash course office 2k7 is easy. I didn't get marks for word processing, y subjects were technical report writing and heritage of india. I dont know if ooo has more features, but office 2k7 had all the features lableled and accessible.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 30, 2007)

adithyagenius said:


> I need the control panel like the one that comes with windows called NVIDIA Control Panel allowing me change basic settings.


You mean something like this?

*gentoo-portage.com/up_img/img_800px/1848.png

or this:

*www.feckoff.net/stuff/ati.png



adithyagenius said:


> This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.


 I appreciate your patience and the level of your hope 



adithyagenius said:


> I just wanted to post the other side of coin for benefit of windows users curious about linux. I just want them to be mentally prepared for issues or just stick to windows.


I agree with this. I've had a tough time getting Ubuntu on my friend's desktop. I could somehow install it but with some features disabled.

I also had a tough time installing Windows XP on an Acer laptop recently. Rather I couldn't install it, no matter what. Finally I asked my uncle to dump XP!

Both OS' haf their pros and cons... the easiness and the troublesome days.



adithyagenius said:


> and 3rd thread for firefox extensions having opera features, I got help from windows users.


I dunno about your other threads since you hafnt mentioned them but the 3rd one (mentioned above) is not a GNU/Linux specific thread at all.



adithyagenius said:


> lack of good software for personal needs also adds to difficulty.


I'd rephrase the sentence and put it as:

Lack of good software for Professional needs adds to the difficulty.



adithyagenius said:


> 1. complicated graphics driver installation.


nVidia has the easiest driver installation, imho. At least in all the places I've installed its been so. Even ATi has a bit complicated proc., the time when we need to select the driver for older ATi hardware. You can't use the new one with older hardware. No such problem with nVidia. No confusion, straight installation. 



adithyagenius said:


> APC UPS,


I'd suggest that all the UPS control software be Java based, just like Leibert UPS has.



adithyagenius said:


> many printers' special features,


Like?



adithyagenius said:


> soundcards's control panel


True. 



adithyagenius said:


> Support for USB modems is less compared to windows.


I'd say its not less, its NIL!



adithyagenius said:


> 1 year back, I couldn't expect onboard sound to work on linux but now that has atleast changed.


Companies will release drivers if users start using it. Companies wait for users to adopt Linux and users wait for companies to release drivers. Anyone got a solution for this deadlock???



adithyagenius said:


> 2. in windows, k-lite mega codec pack contains encoders and decoders of most popular formats+ less common but still required formats. But linux codec packs are only most popular formats. I have to individually hunt for each and every codec and compile install them.


Could you explain which codecs are you talking about? I haf no difficulty in playing the most popular and the non-so popular ones too!



adithyagenius said:


> K-lite codec pack also provides GUI control panel for many codecs and ffdshow can be used to changed lots of settings.


True, Linux lacks this kinda config.



adithyagenius said:


> 3. WMP11 supports both video and audio and has very good media library and it works with k-lite mega codec pack. Linux doesn't have such software yet. Amarok 2 will be having those features and will be available on windows too. If you know any media player which has popular+ less common codecs+ media library for video and audio please mention.


WMP is a mature product which provides all in one interface. While I personally dislike WMP but I must say the integration is good.



adithyagenius said:


> 4. Fonts are a problem for browsing. I tried copying all fonts from windows to ubuntu and changed settings of opera linux to match windows opera settings. Still "O" has very visible holes in it. I am still working on rectifying this problem.


Agreed and I've posted this issues to the Ubuntu development. Meanwhile, if you wish you can try the font enhancing guide in Mac4Lin.



adithyagenius said:


> 5. Office 2007>openoffice.org in ease of use.


I disagree. I say Office 2007 = Openoffice.org in ease of use, Office 2007 > OOo in features; Mebbe you are clarify your point by giving some explaination?



adithyagenius said:


> 6. utorrent and other good windows programs are easier to use in windows than in wine. Its better to use a native program. Such programs need to be ported to linux.


I disagree again. Using wine doesn't mean that uTorrent has some features disabled! I can do everything in uTorrent in Linux running via wine. Heck, uTorrent provides support to Linux users too!!!

But if you are not happy with it, I'd suggest you try Deluge with plugins. Its a feature rich bit-torrent client.



adithyagenius said:


> 7. Lack of custom install: This is ubuntu only issue. During GUI install I dont get option to choose what to install. I dont even get to chose GRUB's default os and timer. I haven't found in any GUI way to change grub settings in the OS. I have to manually uninstall unwanted stuff and change menu.lst.


Agreed. Its a drawback. The reason why this was implemented is that everybody complained of a lot of clicks while installing.

However, imho, a more logical way of dealing with this problem would've been inclusion of 2 options: Typical and Custom modes while installing with Typical being the default.


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

praka123 said:


> @adithya:this is NOT for you:
> learning curve:for a pro-fanatic windows user,Linux usage is nothing but whining for every feature of windows.I feel dont look at the clean Ubuntu or Fedora Gnome Desktop.instead,try learning the new operating system.give ur one week or two trying to stick with a user friendly distro like Ubuntu,Fedora etc.and not but the least,be prepared to use Terminal bash shell for any fixup's which needs using terminal.google for a shell intro.hardly 6 or 7 commands u need to remember.all commands are auto-completed by pressing TAB key after typing few words.
> 
> the term Linux is NOT Windows make sense,as people who are windows blinded can not stop expecting windowish behaviour from Linux!hence the link i gave is helpful!



I know, this is not for me but I just wanted to share this because you reminded me of it. I was having some serious problem with a map in America's Army. When I was using command line tools for analysing dumps, I was using cmd like bash shell, due to me having used bash past year. Then I suddenly realised that cmd support output redirection >> to files and also tab autocompletion in a different manner.


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## mediator (Dec 30, 2007)

> I never said I am expert in office. For quickly getting work done without doing crash course office 2k7 is easy. I didn't get marks for word processing, y subjects were technical report writing and heritage of india. I dont know if ooo has more features, but office 2k7 had all the features lableled and accessible.


Its ok. Just like on default install of windows nuthing is "accessible" like Office, messenger, out of box, drivers and security suites, may be many things might not be there with OOO similary? Shud I whine Linux is easy then coz it has gaim/pidgin (mutli messnger), OOO, wifi readily "accessible"? I was shocked to see wifi working on mah lappy before the install stage on the GUTSY boot CD. 
I hope u understand that I wasn't asking for half explored one day experience stuff and trolls which has made this thread quite heavy.


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

I hope @adithya now knows nvidia has tools for gui configuration in Linux.thx for IRD's screenshot.also,nvidia-xconfig is useful for n00b's to make a /etc/X11/xorg.conf afresh


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

@ infra red dude
I am refering to quickstyles and the ribbon interfece which provided all the features I needed within quick access. I felt quickstyles to be the best part. ooo had very little stuff for direct access. Many often used features were buried in menus which I can't remember and requires exploring. I went to neighbour rooms to ask people to teach me. They were using 2k7 and said its easier to learn and they were too busy themselves to teach me. Thats why I used 2k7 trial cd which was lying in the dust.



praka123 said:


> I hope @adithya now knows nvidia has tools for gui configuration in Linux.thx for IRD's screenshot.also,nvidia-xconfig is useful for n00b's to make a /etc/X11/xorg.conf afresh



I am actually having that installed. But I installed it going through shut down of x-server , downloading kernel-source and compiling from official driver. got a better way to do it finally.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 30, 2007)

adithyagenius said:


> @ infra red dude
> I am refering to quickstyles and the ribbon interfece which provided all the features I needed within quick access. I felt quickstyles to be the best part. ooo had very little stuff for direct access. Many often used features were buried in menus which I can't remember and requires exploring.


I assure you that for most of the freq. used features you don't need to look deep inside. Yes, for some not-so-commonly used features you may hafta click twice or thrice more than what you do in MSO.

And there is no comparison between MSO and OOo. MSO is the king! 

Plus there are n second thoughts that OOo interface needs to be made attractive.



adithyagenius said:


> Thats why I used 2k7 *trial cd* which was lying in the dust.


_Trial CD... _You are one clever fox! 

Btw, one question: After the trial period is over..... tell me honestly... would you buy Office 2007? I'm not asking you to use a product with less features (OOo), I'm just interested to kno, wudja buy it?



adithyagenius said:


> But I installed it going through shut down of x-server , downloading kernel-source and compiling from official driver.


Any specific reason? Just curious, which nVidia GFX card do you use?


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

^whats the use of compiling from kernel source and nvidia-common.u can use "module-assistant" to make nvidia driver modules within seconds  
though,i use custom compiled kernel for matter of optimization,speed and size.


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## adithyagenius (Dec 30, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> Btw, one question: After the trial period is over..... tell me honestly... would you buy Office 2007? I'm not asking you to use a product with less features (OOo), I'm just interested to kno, wudja buy it?
> 
> 
> Any specific reason? Just curious, which nVidia GFX card do you use?



I dont do wordprocessing or any such office stuff.  I very rarely get such work. I am expecting a lot of reports and presentations in my intership programme in summmer 08. I will do the office work in my father's office, if they upgrade to 2k7, else I will take help from office 2003 specialists in my father's office. I hope ooo implements 2k7 type UI by then.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 30, 2007)

^^^ ok 

But you hafn't yet answered which nVidia card you use.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> ^^^ ok
> 
> But you hafn't yet answered which nVidia card you use.



This is what he told right?


> I have 17" CRT and XFX7600GT


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

^ a very well supported card!


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 30, 2007)

Oops! Yes! my bad!

Yeah 7600GT is a very well supported card. May I know why exactly you compiled the driver. Rather which driver did you compile? nVidia provides only binary drivers, which is why it is not bundled with most Linux Distros.


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

well its interesting to see how easy linux is


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## shady_inc (Dec 30, 2007)

iMav said:


> well its interesting to see how easy linux is


It is actually fun to do stuff using the terminal.!! So much so that now I have even started using cmd in XP to get work done.!!   .

@everyone: Don't just restrict yourself to one particular OS.Instead try out as many as you can.
DON'T LET YOUR FANBOYISM GET IN THE WAY OFR EXPLORING THE FEATURES OF OTHER OPERATING SYSTEMS.!!
I use both Gutsy and XP on my PC and plan to install OpenSUSe and Mint soon.Too bad I can't use Vista because of high requirements... Seriously why did MS make an OS that would run with it's full glory only on high-end machines.?? .No wonder ppl prefer XP over Vista.
As far as Mac is concerned, Apple itself has restricted the Macs to their own hardware.Stupid ppl.. .But nice OS..


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## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

shady_inc said:


> @everyone: Don't just restrict yourself to one particular OS.Instead try out as many as you can.


 
This, I guess u r assuming that time isn't money.



> Seriously why did MS make an OS that would run with it's full glory only on high-end machines.??


 
What according to u is High end system config today in 2007/2008?


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

@shady: i agree to ur pint of testing and exploring but i cant tell dad to install ubuntu on all office machines to explore  (i hope u get my point) for us students; freelancers; fukat wele bandey its all fun but when it comes to getting wrk done id say windows is numero uno followed by os x and then any linux distro and yes certain courses and careers have need of certain applications which are mac exclusive and dont have an equivalent windows alternative courtesy application developers and not MS


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## shady_inc (Dec 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:


> This, I guess u r assuming that time isn't money.What according to u is High end system config today in 2007/2008?


1.] Kudos Christmas holidays, I am back to doing what I like the most i.e. messing around with my PC. 
2.] 2 gb RAM, 128 Mb+ gfx card for optimal performance.??That too when I am perfectly OK with all visual effects disabled.??Ubuntu with Compiz works fine on my 1 gb 64 mb onboard gfx.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

shady_inc said:


> 2.] 2 gb RAM, 128 Mb+ gfx card for optimal performance.??That too when I am perfectly OK with all visual effects disabled.??


 
Actually, if you are going to disable all the effects then all u need is 512 MB RAM  & Intel 865G/GeForce 4 MX level chipset or similar graphics card with 64 MB RAM



> Ubuntu with Compiz works fine on my 1 gb 64 mb onboard gfx.


 
U said u were going to disable effects? Hey, how much does it costs for Geforce 6200 these days? Rs 1600 i think, & 1 GB is fine for Vista


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## Garbage (Dec 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Actually, if you are going to disable all the effects then all u need is 512 MB RAM & Intel 865G/GeForce 4 MX level chipset or similar graphics card with 64 MB RAM



I think, no one is purchasing VISTA to DISABLE it's effect !!
And one of the major reason of VISTA selling is AERO !! Isn't it ??


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## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

right , but not fully , there is dx10 too . . but the games are crap , so yes areo . . but i see vista as another ME.2k was their best . then xp , too bad they discontinued 2k.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

In that case, he already has 1 GB RAM, all he needs is a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 MB RAM which can be bought 2nd hand today for Rs 1000 or less. This is just an example as I don't know what motherboard he has.

Is that "really high end system requirment" to run Vista? GeForce FX 5200 was released over 4 years back. Even Intel GMA 950 was released in 2005


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## shady_inc (Dec 30, 2007)

> Actually, if you are going to disable all the effects then all u need is 512 MB RAM & Intel 865G/GeForce 4 MX level chipset or similar graphics card with 64 MB RAM


With all effects disabled ubuntu will work on pretty much any piece of trash with even as little as 128 mb RAM  and 32 mb onboard gfx..


> U said u were going to disable effects?


That I said just to highlight my desperation to try out Vista which is impossible for me at the moment.. .


> Hey, how much does it costs for Geforce 6200 these days? Rs 1600 i think, & 1 GB is fine for Vista


Total cost of vista plus the gfx card is >6000 Rs.
Total cost of Ubuntu...... .Hope you understand.


> In that case, he already has 1 GB RAM, all he needs is a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 MB RAM which can be bought 2nd hand today for Rs 1000 or less. This is just an example as I don't know what motherboard he has.


Nah..My good for nothing mobo[intel 845] doesn't even have a AGP slot.[forget PCI-e].I have a spare 7600GS lying around but can't use it due to lack of AGP slot.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

shady_inc said:


> total cost of vista plus the gfx card is >6000 Rs.
> Total cost of Ubuntu...... .Hope you understand.


 
I was right, for u, time isn't money. cos u r ok with all the configuring & what not



shady_inc said:


> nah..My good for nothing mobo[intel 845] doesn't even have a AGP slot.[forget PCI-e].I have a spare 7600GS lying around but can't use it due to lack of AGP slot.


 
Then why r u blaming Vista for high system requirments if despite of having a card, u r unable to use it. It's not the fault of vista that u can't use it, it your motherboard. Blame that....

Calling a computer with 512 MB RAM & onborad DirectX 9 capable gfx like GMA 950 or ATI xpress 200 or nvidia in 2007 a high system requirment is absolutely rubish.


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## Garbage (Dec 30, 2007)

x3060 said:
			
		

> right , but not fully , there is dx10 too .


Thats why I said..


> And *one of the major reason* of VISTA selling is AERO !!


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## shady_inc (Dec 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:


> Then why r u blaming Vista for high system requirments if despite of having a card, u r unable to use it. It's not the fault of vista that u can't use it, it your motherboard. Blame that....


The point is clear....I have onboard gfx.Ubuntu works fine while vista won't even run.*Ubuntu wins.Vista loses*.Next point please.!! 
And BTW, the idea of a OS requiring gaming level gfx card to run with all bells and whistles doesn't appeal to me at all.


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## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

my bad , i did not read that carefully . . but anyways vista is too costly . you can give it a full skip.and the way Linux is getting flourished ,its going to be too hard for MS.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 30, 2007)

Are we supposed to discuss the system requirements of Windows and Linux is this thread?


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## Garbage (Dec 30, 2007)

NO !!


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## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

but gx started it . .


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

x3060 said:


> but gx started it . .



That's what he does best, twist the topic, manipulate the subject and then blame your motherboard for Vista's failure or make the thread into some manipulative Vista black hole which sucks you into irreversible failure 

Please stick to the topic, especially you @gx


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## shady_inc (Dec 30, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> Are we supposed to discuss the system requirements of Windows and Linux is this thread?


Alrite,alrite.!! 
Someone who has been using windows all his life [a very common scenario in India], will obviously find windows more intuitive than linux.!!
Also, MS always plays smart and makes it OS backward-compatible to make XP-to-Vista switchers feel at home.Smart Guys.!! 
Linux on the other hand, still requires using the terminal commands to get certain tasks done.The very idea of having to 'type' something to get work done doesn't appeal to most casual PC users.So they shy away from linux FORGETTING that there is a GUI for doing all the things that can be done in windows and the commands provide an easier way to get things done.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 30, 2007)

Yay lots of posts and lots of time. A bad combo to have on a Rant Forum. Anyway here we go!


> I guess it's not Linux compatible.


He says he posted his configuration somewhere but I can't find it in any post other than one of his recent ones. Ive looked in Open Source Forum for questions he has on Display issues and nVidia and I couldn't find it.


> @exx 2000
> If you have read my posts properly, you would know that I have already solved the problems of display and mentioned how complicated graphic driver installation is. I have 17" CRT and XFX7600GT. If you got an easier way to do it, suggest it to me. I need the control panel like the one that comes with windows called NVIDIA Control Panel allowing me change basic settings.


Your queries have been adequately answered in each case. But forgive me when I don't take your word for granted . But I think that a person who has had experience of 100 + installs would know that nvidia-settings would possibly exist. How many months were you searching for a control panel? By any chance did you try to search for -> nvidia control panel linux <- in google? I'm sorry if I sound mean but was the above also a hyperbole. 


> I didn't call anyone fanboy because of "you stick to windows" but because "linux users are wisest" kind of smug posts.
> Regarding me calling all linux users of this forum fanboys, I was speaking in hyperbole since most of the posts are simply like that lately. It could be a reaction to fanboyish posts of windows users or mac users which again might be reaction to fanboying posts of linux users. This vicious cycle has to end somewhere.


You can't end anything while adding fuel to the fire. You posted something and were expecting flames. Not to mention that you address every single Linux user as a Linboy or whatever and then criticize the help that they posted. You're the *worst person* to end any kind of cycle. 


> cyrus try slacware  all ur bull sh1t ur typing is based on ubuntu give some of the other 10 thousand different useless linux distros out thr a try
> ubuntu is not equal to linux ur talking like the frog who thinks his pond is the whole world


I agree with this. Wtf 10000 distros each with different features and stuff. Why can't their be some kind of standardization or something :/ . But why isn't Ubuntu Linux? I'm confused please clarify what you meant. 


> windows being easy is not a myth it is easier and has been accepted by members and linux being hard aditya has proved our points of linux being stupid for day to day users once again ubuntu is not equal to linux


Windows is definitely easier no doubt here. However saying that Linux s for geeks is absolutely rubbish. Im no geek and I still can run my Ubuntu box with no problem not to mention about 14 PCS all around my town which I haven't been getting calls about yet. 


> and the linux fan boys are not ready to listen to truth
> Windows is paid because it is much easier and easy to understand interface
> i still remember the day when i have switched to linux and i have made
> several query and after that i was handed over a link which was teaching
> me linux is not windows WT*


Which bandwagon did you jump off? You had Windows then installed Linux? If you were satisfied by Windows you should have stuck with it. Is it possible you wanted something like Windows which worked like Windows and gave you the same results you got in Windows ? Then yes, the answer was in the link. If you didn't find it keep on looking it should still be there. 


> Most of the company's offer windows with new computer because they too know that if they will hand linux to the buyer they will call them regularly asking thousands of questions
> I agree that linux is also distributed but it is only distributed to lower the cost of comp


I guess thats why Dell introducing their own customized version of Ubuntu to go on their laptops? Obviously they must be doing this because they hate their tech support. Did you know that Dell has its own forum on ubuntuforums. The reasons why Linux is given is because they can't give you pirated copies of Windows. Would you purchase an original copy? 


> Now lemme tell you linux is free that is why it is used if it was paid then you must have thrown that os since ages


Yet I wonder how it is that the cheapest Web Hosting solutions work on Linux servers. Have you subscribed for any distro in Linux? No I didn't think so. Are you acting ignorant or are you really that dense? 


> Regarding the explanation for why office 2007 is better than openoffice- In my last semester I had to do some reports and presentations. I have no experience in word processing or presentations except for making lion come and fart and go away. I spent 1 hour trying open-office org. I was spending more time searching trough boxes and menus. I tried office 2003 and it was the same. I got 3 trial version CDs from MS. Office 2007 was way too easy with learning curve of 5 mins. I got very high marks in my reports (highests in all) and presentations (highest and 2nd highest).


I did every single assignment I had in OOo which amounts to 189 pages it uses ToC's , Styles, Multi-level bulleted lists, the regular bold , italic etc, diagrams etc and I found no problem whatsoever. Please note I don't use Office 2007 but rather Office 2000/ Nor am  going to pay that huge amount to get it. Not all of us are that well off. By the way you can customize the menus to keep those "buried items" on front in OOo as you could do in Office (previous versions) at least. I have heard you can't do that in Office 2k7 ? Could anyone confirm? Oh by the way, I have the opportunity to mark a few assignments myself and if anyone thinks that they are going to get an extra mark cause their assignment looked prettier .... Well all I can say is "Good Luck with that". 


> I actually planned to write my report in notepad. But my technical report writing teacher was visiting faculty from ICFAI business school HYD. She wanted various levels of headings, with various indentations and lots of minute details. Each visual aid had to be labeled.. you get the idea.


As I said above you can use various levels of indentation if in fact the bullets and numbering tool bar has that feature if I recall correctly. 

To conclude may I add the following. 
*The Sacred Fanboy Commandments*

*1. Thou shall not spread FUD. *

Quite obvious. Example. Windows doesn't come packed with Office 2007 or Viruses. Neither does Linux comes with every single repository available on a CD. Neither 

*2. Thou shall not force thy product on me.*

We do not care if you can install all the Gold from Fort Knox on to your computer with a single click. Neither do we care if you come up with Latest Catch Phrase 22 "Yo *Nux is ph4t j01n the b4ndw4g0n noobzors". 

*3. Thou shall not compare Apples and Oranges. *

I shall not start random fight threads cause Windows could do this while Linux does the same this way. Doing so I openly invite any posted to kick me in the vital areas. 

*4. Thou shall not start random threads which retards normal people. *

Example : YAY . I couldn't install Linux you all suck cause I was able to install Vista and it comes in a cool cover too. Another instance would be. HAHAHA I installed Linux I plan on word domination join me or die.

In simple words. No one gives a %$#% what you were able to run or what you were not.


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 30, 2007)

OK guys, why not come here for a change and some enlightenment?
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76968
lets stop flaming an OS whose name I forgot


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## x3060 (Dec 30, 2007)

dont worry this thread will eventually be closed down .


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> That's what he does best, twist the topic, manipulate the subject and then blame your motherboard for Vista's failure or make the thread into some manipulative Vista black hole which sucks you into irreversible failure
> 
> Please stick to the topic, especially you @gx


 sir as far as the ur topic the 1 u have started namely this 1 in particular has proven to be a stupid FUD


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

iMav said:


> sir as far as the ur topic the 1 u have started namely this 1 in particular has proven to be a stupid FUD



what kind of FUD did this thread start??? What kind of negetive publicity did this thread give to Windows? All your so called FUD's have been posted by Windows users, not anyone else.

The purpose of the thread was to dispel the myth that Linux is hard. Not to create any your so called 'stupid FUD'


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## gxsaurav (Dec 30, 2007)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> what kind of FUD did this thread start??? What kind of negetive publicity did this thread give to Windows?


 
This thread tried to show that application setup in Windows is harder then Linux, while in reality they both are equaly usefull.

Linux gives u no option to configure the installation, like path, locking of installation package, choosing which components to install etc, while Windows does.


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## praka123 (Dec 30, 2007)

^YOU ARE IGNORAT REG, GNU/LINUX 
all what u showed are available in apt+dpkg  and in dpkg,around 10 operations can be achieved with a package before pre-install and post-install and that includes the path(install dir),locking of version of package or the package itself,which components to install(well,this is tough but via dpkg it can be!).
almost same is achievable with rpm+yum too!try to overcome fanboyishness 
Happy?


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## iMav (Dec 30, 2007)

@cyrus: we both know the truth abt this stupid thread of urs and the comments that followed abt which of the 2 is easier to use


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 30, 2007)

iMav said:


> @cyrus: we both know the truth abt this stupid thread of urs and the comments that followed abt which of the 2 is easier to use



Dude, if all your parents taught you are the words *stupid *and *bull$hit*, you seriously need to go back to school for some manner leasons, if you think this thread was stupid, then you are even more stupider to post anything here.

@imeov, stop trolling and either post something useful or stay away from the thread!


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 31, 2007)

GX is sticking to the point of custom install like superglue!!  Stop it man. It has been said.. and accepted... how many thousands of times more will you repeat the same thing.

Both the windows loyalists are simply trolling here...


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

@cyrus  we are trolling wat are u adding to the thread  this thread was started by u to spread FUD that using linux us easier

case example of aditya (counting me would be unfair to lin boys) it has been proved that using linux is no where as easy as windows


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

Easy there prakash. Lets start our new phiposophy here:

@iMav: Dear imav, it pains us to see thee suffer in this dire distress that your OS has put you into. How can anyone be so cruel as to make thee thy OS's fan? God bless thee and make ye like me, a happy and contended man living with an OS that gave me and taught me everything. Truely, Linux is nationalist. We need progress, and this is real progression. With all the peoples from this world represented equally, an equal opportunity for all in its creation, and making origin no bar for people, linux has made my life easy.

Jai Hind, Jai Linux!


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

praka123 said:


> post something sensible.


 i do that quite often but sometimes i have to replyto certain people whose senses are on a permanent strike so i have to come down to that level  and to be honest the fact of linux being easier than windows has been proven to be a myth beyond doubt and it has been accpeted in more ways than 1 that linux has still o go a long way to come any where close to windows 

the thread started with install steps for applications in linux and windows which any sane person would read and rubbish as pure bullsh1t but no still the thread creator will keep on insisting that windows is harder than linux  calliing it secure, to an exten makes sense as an arguement but calling it easier  cmon man if u wanna argue come up with something reasonable


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 31, 2007)

iMav said:


> case example of aditya (counting me would be unfair to lin boys) it has been proved that using linux is no where as easy as windows


Dude, a person who claims to haf used Linux for long but doesn't know that nVidia Control Panel exists.. at least imho, I do not consider most of the points credible.

On the other hand, why don't you ask shady, akshay? They are new user, very recently they've installed Linux and started using it. They are the best people to say what is what...


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> On the other hand, why don't you ask shady, akshay? They are new user, very recently they've installed Linux and started using it. They are the best people to say what is what...


 i also gave gutsy a shot and know what is what  

and almost every argument has this glaring misconception being projected that linux=ubuntu where as the equation is ubuntu=linux


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> Dude, a person who claims to haf used Linux for long but doesn't know that nVidia Control Panel exists.. at least imho, I do not consider most of the points credible.
> 
> On the other hand, why don't you ask shady, akshay? They are new user, very recently they've installed Linux and started using it. They are the best people to say what is what...


Yes, Learning is a major path to Success.


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## praka123 (Dec 31, 2007)

@imeow:the last thing u posted may be called "sensible"


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

Dear ignorant linboys, it pains us to see thee suffer in this dire distress that your OS has put you into. How can anyone be so cruel as to make thee thy OS's fan? God bless thee and make ye like me, a happy and contended man living with an OS that gave me and taught me everything. Truely, WIndows is nationalist. We need progress, and this is real progression. With all the peoples from this world represented equally, an equal opportunity for all in its creation, and making origin no bar for people, windows has made every1s life easy.

Jai Hind, Jai Windows!


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## praka123 (Dec 31, 2007)

^thats it!windows and winboys "COPY from MAC or OPEN SOURCE" wned:=imeow


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

[sarcasm]ya rite we copy everything  aur kuch ...[/sarcasm]


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

iMav said:


> Dear ignorant linboys, it pains us to see thee suffer in this dire distress that your OS has put you into. How can anyone be so cruel as to make thee thy OS's fan? God bless thee and make ye like me, a happy and contended man living with an OS that gave me and taught me everything. Truely, WIndows is nationalist. We need progress, and this is real progression. With all the peoples from this world represented equally, an equal opportunity for all in its creation, and making origin no bar for people, windows has made every1s life easy.
> 
> Jai Hind, Jai Windows!


Oh satanic forces, how could thee harm an innocent being like iMav to this extent?



praka123 said:


> ^thats it!windows and winboys "COPY from MAC or OPEN SOURCE" wned:=imeow


my dear boy prakash, he is not thinking on his own. His mind is being put to evil use, can't thou see?


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 31, 2007)

Using any software for less than a week doesn't make anyone competent to give a review!

Hafing a biased mind is of no use. Ask shady, he uses windows as well as linux.


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## praka123 (Dec 31, 2007)

@imeow should watch "revolution system" docu for complete 72 hours in a closed dark room!hope some improvement!


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## iMav (Dec 31, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:


> my dear boy prakash, he is not thinking on his own. His mind is being put to evil use, can't thou see?


 whenit cmes to using an OS there is only 1 of the 3 that controls ur mind and makes u do only what 1 man wants u to .... guess what its not windows and neither linux

aur jeshtha tera boy nahin hai uncle hai samjha


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

iMav said:


> aur jeshtha tera boy nahin hai uncle hai samjha


*gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 31, 2007)

Peace guys.. Don't fight!


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> Peace guys.. Don't fight!


I am just having fun here. Fighting via Ghandigiri *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 31, 2007)

^^^ For heaven's sake.. its Gandhigiri and NOT Ghandigiri!!!!


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 31, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:


> ^^^ For heaven's sake.. its Gandhigiri and NOT Ghandigiri!!!!


OK, OK.... I corrected all my errors ecept this one a few minutes back.


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## iMav (Jan 1, 2008)

couldnt resist it ... New Year cant be here unless i say this:

Linux Sucks

Windows Rules

OS X is a useless piece of software

 happy new year


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## praka123 (Jan 1, 2008)

^u need to correct ur DNS  ur having a "inverse lookup" problem!
think is Linux owns both windows and mac.got it?


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## gxsaurav (Jan 1, 2008)

Everyone has there individual choice


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## fun2sh (Jan 1, 2008)

thinkin of tryin my hand on unbuntu after my exams.wil create a thead askin for suggestions


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## gary4gar (Jan 1, 2008)

Lol Happy New year, Mr Vista


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## x3060 (Jan 1, 2008)

new year day is getting over . . shall we resume the fighting ?


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