# Refusal to pay for apps/software



## ssk_the_gr8 (May 24, 2012)

thanx to our local computer shopwalas, the notion of software being free had been embedded in our minds.(cheap antivirus being the only exception)

now i see people spending 25k -30k on the latest nokia, lg  etc. phone and refusing to pay even 50 bucks for an app useful to them.They are willing to waste 500 bucks on a pizza but not 50 on an app and the worst part is the sense of achievement that people feel on doing this - Perfect example was one of my friends who quickly rooted his new optimus and downloaded several pirated APK's , deployed them and was so happy about it. there is  absolutely no sense of regret. they simply don't understand that if they pay they'll get better software later, it will help in development.*The kind of adrenaline rush that Indians get out of free stuff is hilarious.*

So why is it so?

is it because apps/software are not physical that indians dont want to pay for them?
Most Indians don't consider pirating apps as stealing?
or because of the hypocritical and selfish nature of us indians?

What do you'll think?


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## Desmond (May 24, 2012)

I think the Hardware resellers are at the crux of this scenario. Such a mindset has come to be because they have been bundling software with the machines for years. So, the common man's perception is that, software is part of the machine. If hardware resellers themselves give up piracy, people would then go for paid software (though I still doubt if it would do any good).


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## hsr (May 24, 2012)

In India, most of the regular users and almost 3/4 of the gaming population is teenagers and kids. They get their dream phone or dream computer after months or weeks of pursuing their parents. Once they have them, no one will be obviously eager to spend any more on apps and games. The thing is that, people are willing to pay 1000 bucks a month for internet, 500 per month for 3g, and endless amounts for 'hanging' out and 'chilling'.
Social status is what matters, if one goes with his friends and buys him a single license game, and plays it, soon the friends will disappear. They are willing to pay that much so that they live a 'cool' lifestyle. The Indian youth has considered buying software 'weak' and not worthy. Cracking and breaking is their hip.
I have no pirated applications in my phone or pc(except Adobe Photoshop - costs $199 same as my phone's price). I do pirate music because NONE of my music preferences are available as hard copies in my state.

Everyone claim they are jailbreaking/rooting/hacking their phone OS for developer purposes and overclocking, but the sad truth is apks and ipas


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## koolent (May 24, 2012)

The thing with me are the parents.. If its a book of 700, they will insist on it. But if I want to get an app or game for that amount, they s
Say "Kya Karoge itna mehnga wala lekar." LOL

So, it is that parents do not understand cyberspace or all that stuff.. If they do, they think it will disturb the studies.. My life is sucked because of that..


They want us to study and screw all that playing.. They consider it a waste of time and think it does only destroy you..

I am a victim of this and against piracy but what to do..


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## Desmond (May 24, 2012)

FYI, its not just the hipsters. Almost everyone does it. My college used to use pirated copies of windows as well, but when someone took objection, they moved to Linux.


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## hsr (May 24, 2012)

^ true, my school used to have pirated windows and I along with the computer staff asked the principal to buy Windows, and soon we moved to Linux .__.

However my college is fully OSS, Debian everywhere, except in a few M.Tech lab systems


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## koolent (May 24, 2012)

My f***ing school has always been using pirated Vista.. We ask them to move and get a scolding.. WTF..

They just don't care..


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## Anorion (May 24, 2012)

when you pay for groceries, electricity, water... why not pay for apps as well? 

when you pirate a movie or a song, there is no stress on the resources of the publisher
when a game gets pirated, the studio still has to allocate resources for the increased server load, and there is also the cost of giving support to all the pirated copies

good news is that the publishers are meeting us half way, even games you play alone on your system needs to connect to a server
Steam is a good example of this, if paying really gets convenient, and support and updates un-intrusive, you can expect that platform to flourish


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## Champ (May 24, 2012)

We do it simply because we can, Give us a way of getting free hardware and we will take that also.

Its good that in India we don't get hardware at subsidized rates/free with contract, or number of defaulters will be quite high


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## nbaztec (May 24, 2012)

Champ said:


> We do it simply because we can, Give us a way of getting free hardware and we will take that also.
> 
> Its good that in India we don't get hardware at subsidized rates/free with contract, or number of defaulters will be quite high


This. Exactly.

Now only to figure out how to pirate free pizzas. Don't worry I'll buy one if I like it


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## Liverpool_fan (May 24, 2012)

Because Indians have no conscience or respect for people's hard work. They only know how to do jugaad, corruption, talk shite and stick with their retarded cultural beliefs.
And since software isn't really a show off either, while hardware like Galaxy SII/iPhone/Lumia 800 is, you know what they'll invest on.


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## ico (May 24, 2012)

Indian culture is to blame.


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## Anorion (May 24, 2012)

this is why we cant have nice things


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## coderunknown (May 24, 2012)

main problem is not the price. if online shops start selling mobile software or at least licenses, piracy in the mobile space will almost completely disappear. cause if you want to buy an app, you need a credit card. then also not just any credit card will work. And then those who plays mobile games and try different apps are mostly students. Its not easy for us to get hold of a credit card. Surely, if they can deduct the price of app from recharge we do or add it to postpaid bill and still if piracy continues then you can say Indians are retarded.

secondly, some ppls feel cool and proud of themselves when they use a pirated app when even a free one will work. My friends who own an Android play NFS Shift. not cause its fun to play but for showoff. You can brag that your mobile runs a great game that cost ~500.

i read somewhere that 80% peoples who own the game Ridge Racer are pirates. And thats a huge number. Ubisoft has also said it may stop developing games for windows as the profit is just not there at all. And soon other studios may join them.


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## Sujeet (May 24, 2012)

ico said:


> Indian culture is to blame.



All Hail in the name of Dooming Indian Culture.!

Please make the hidden Indian Culture thread Visible again and Unlock it and Keep Posting all those criticism about Indian Culture on different Topics there.


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## Liverpool_fan (May 24, 2012)

Sujeet said:


> All Hail in the name of Dooming Indian Culture.!
> 
> Please make the hidden Indian Culture thread Visible again and Unlock it and Keep Posting all those criticism about Indian Culture on different Topics there.



Funny how the use of the word "culture" winds up so many. If you people had that much care about civic sense, ethics and sensibility, we would be living in a much better country.


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## papul1993 (May 24, 2012)

I think SBI branches here(near where I live, not in the whole state) use pirated Windows XP. They use web pages to do all the work.(In IE 6) No software on the local machine. They can easily use Linux. But who is gonna tell them?


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## ssk_the_gr8 (May 25, 2012)

hsr said:


> Social status is what matters, if one goes with his friends and buys him a single license game, and plays it, soon the friends will disappear. They are willing to pay that much so that they live a 'cool' lifestyle. The Indian youth has considered buying software 'weak' and not worthy. Cracking and breaking is their hip.
> 
> Everyone claim they are jailbreaking/rooting/hacking their phone OS for developer purposes and overclocking, but the sad truth is apks and ipas



true, this sadly is due to the indian culture. people here consider breaking rules to be cool. if you break a line in england 10 people will frown upon you. the same indian will stand in a line their but not here.*hypocrisy*
if the police catches you, and you dial your "chacha's" number and you are released without any chalan etc. all your friends are in awe of you. 
This attitude is so wrong. *the feeling that we are above the law*.
Same happens with software, pirating is cool and buying is stupid



koolent said:


> The thing with me are the parents..
> 
> I am a victim of this and against piracy but what to do..



true, parents need to understand cyberspace, but if you cant buy the latest smartphone do you go and steal it? it's all about the ease with which pirated s/w is available



Anorion said:


> good news is that the publishers are meeting us half way, even games you play alone on your system needs to connect to a server
> Steam is a good example of this, if paying really gets convenient, and support and updates un-intrusive, you can expect that platform to flourish



Steam is definitely good, similar approch is their on windows phone and iOS.
Sadly the flourishing OS is the one where it is easy to pirate apps.



Champ said:


> We do it simply because we can, Give us a way of getting free hardware and we will take that also.
> 
> Its good that in India we don't get hardware at subsidized rates/free with contract, or number of defaulters will be quite high



well said , this is the indian mindset. Sad.



Liverpool_fan said:


> Because Indians have no conscience or respect for people's hard work. They only know how to do jugaad, corruption, talk shite and stick with their retarded cultural beliefs.
> And since software isn't really a show off either, while hardware like Galaxy SII/iPhone/Lumia 800 is, you know what they'll invest on.



Show off is another very true point. Shallow is the word that comes to mind.




Sam said:


> if you want to buy an app, you need a credit card. then also not just any credit card will work. And then those who plays mobile games and try different apps are mostly students.



Debit cards are now accepted my most stores



Liverpool_fan said:


> Funny how the use of the word "culture" winds up so many. If you people had that much care about civic sense, ethics and sensibility, we would be living in a much better country.



true, culture word makes them feel as if they, their family etc. are being pointed at. Which btw is True.

Basic civic sense is so absent that it's amazing. Lady throws garbage on the road and complains about the city being dirty!

P.S- i hope this does not become the culture thread again


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## dashing.sujay (May 25, 2012)

Problem is we're exposed to all sorts of foul methods from starting, which creates a thinking in our mind that if free, then why to pay?

Lack of knowledge and ignorance is also responsible, for instance people will spend 500 every year on an anti-virus when they can get better protection by using a free anti-virus + self protection measures, but won't spend on a mobile app costing 50rs.

As far I'm considered, I'm fully willing to pay for mobile applications as they cost as much they should, but PC apps are just too costly. OS for 10k? Never. Better use linux.


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> *Funny how the use of the word "culture" winds up so many.* If you people had that much care about civic sense, ethics and sensibility, we would be living in a much better country.



_"Gehun ke sath Ghun bhi Pis-ta hai"._
Only in case you know what it means.


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## ssk_the_gr8 (May 25, 2012)

dashing.sujay said:


> Problem is we're exposed to all sorts of foul methods from starting, which creates a thinking in our mind that if free, then why to pay?
> 
> Lack of knowledge and ignorance is also responsible, for instance people will spend 500 every year on an anti-virus when they can get better protection by using a free anti-virus + self protection measures, but won't spend on a mobile app costing 50rs.
> 
> As far I'm considered, I'm fully willing to pay for mobile applications as they cost as much they should, but PC apps are just too costly. OS for 10k? Never. Better use linux.



your knowledge has led to this right attitude, which very few people have.not buying a 10k os is your decision. there is a reason why pc apps are more expensive but whether they are priced right or not, is another discussion all together.
hsr mentioned that he would use photoshop but not pay for it because it's expensive... well here again this is not the right attitude, if you wan't some bike you just won't pick it up from the parking stand? 
it again boils down to ease of availability and probability of getting caught.

Maybe some big pirate needs to be made example of by the government, then this might bring more awareness.. even though it would be forced awareness.


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## hsr (May 25, 2012)

I have justified my use of pirated Photoshop, considering my use, as a small time designer and once in a year magazine editor, $199 is too much to ask. If it was priced $50 or less, I would have definitely bought it. I too still depend on my parents for money to buy stuff. Tell them that I need 13 thousand for a software and I can see the Titans unleashed. And I certainly do not want to use Gimp and other free alternatives because the results will not be the same, and no one has yet produced a free software that is near the potential of Photoshop.


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## Anorion (May 25, 2012)

microtransactions 
you pay only for the features of the software you use 

subscription
you pay for using the software for specific amounts of time

coming soon


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## hsr (May 25, 2012)

microtransactions is an old idea which failed to seed. But take case of steam, it is selling products less than $10 and at times premium products too.


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## Liverpool_fan (May 25, 2012)

The way people shamelessly pirate Photoshop and MS Office is precisely the reason why those tools have the monopoly.
Because of those idiots who pirate and use MS Office, _my_ freedom of using ODF is lost and _I_ have to face problems with formatting of MS Office documents. With absolutely no fault of mine.

Bet who vouch for PS and other stuff, have not even laid their hands to other tools. Corel Paint Shop Pro is like $50, one can afford it, for instance. But no let's make excuses and continue pirating and be "proud" of it. Might not serve all purposes, but considering how those lol guys use the software, even Paint.NET will be enough for them. And for the microscopic minority who actually make full use of it while pirating it, should eventually buy it considering the productivity they have derived from it before they spend lakhs on rigs or Nokia Lumias.

Windows Home Basic is around 5k and you can even get cheaper. Heck you can even get student discounts, and other stuff. And even better, you can use Linux. You don't have too look at Windows 7 Ultimate and then claim it's overpriced and justify your piracy. 

Ordinary people who are ignorant and less understanding of software, I can ok they are clueless and hence they pirate; but when these so called techies pirate willingly knowing all the implications, spending a lakh on a rig and mobiles and still pirating, I can only wish one thing to them, hope all your hardware goes to smoke.


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

1)Exactly.Sometimes when my friends ask how much i paid for this.Ill say this this much.They'll be like you can get it for 60 bucks p***te it.Ill be like no,you dont get many feature's blah blah.
2)Some people feel its useless to pay for apps.Yes,If these people started buying Original stuff from beginning none of this would ever happen.
3)They regard "Yeah i downloaded a Pir*** app.Im a hacker .Now,all people will think im so great when i give them these stuff"



hsr said:


> In India, most of the regular users and almost 3/4 of the gaming population is teenagers and kids. They get their dream phone or dream computer after months or weeks of pursuing their parents. Once they have them, no one will be obviously eager to spend any more on apps and games. The thing is that, people are willing to pay 1000 bucks a month for internet, 500 per month for 3g, and endless amounts for 'hanging' out and 'chilling'.
> *Social status is what matters, if one goes with his friends and buys him a single license game, and plays it, soon the friends will disappear*. They are willing to pay that much so that they live a 'cool' lifestyle. The Indian youth has considered buying software 'weak' and not worthy. Cracking and breaking is their hip.
> I have no pirated applications in my phone or pc(except Adobe Photoshop - costs $199 same as my phone's price). I do pirate music because NONE of my music preferences are available as hard copies in my state.
> 
> Everyone claim they are jailbreaking/rooting/hacking their phone OS for developer purposes and overclocking, but the sad truth is apks and ipas



Exactly once my friend was asking me for some of my cd's I said i dont have any games in my computer.Before he came i even put my games to * Hidden*.
And gave him games That dont require CD-KEY.(That was AC 1).
God sometimes its so hard to explain them.
Or sometimes they might ask you to pass the Apps to them.

A bit more(Please dont ...... me)

My computer sir.On the 1st class of computer in 11th.
"Our college computers run on windows xp pirated black edition.It is windows xp but looks like windows 7."
Each computer has Adobe photoshop,flash pirated.Each software cost around 40k there are around 200 computers so imagine the loss to adobe


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

Every one must have induldged in Digital Piracy Of one Kind or other at some point of Time in their Life and that applies strictly to Every Indian Computer Owner.Cant Deny.


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## Liverpool_fan (May 25, 2012)

Sujeet said:


> Every one must have induldged in Digital Piracy Of one Kind or other at some point of Time in their Life and that applies strictly to Every Indian Computer Owner.Cant Deny.



And it's never too late to turn a new leaf.


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> And it's never too late to turn a new leaf.



Still The Clueless and Unaware folks  will remain withered.
The more informed can definitely make a new start. by hopping over too more viable Options as you have suggested.


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## hsr (May 25, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> Bet who vouch for PS and other stuff, have not even laid their hands to other tools. Corel Paint Shop Pro is like $50, one can afford it, for instance. But no let's make excuses and continue pirating and be "proud" of it.





hsr said:


> ..., $199 is too much to ask. If it was priced $50 or less, I would have definitely bought it. ...





Liverpool_fan said:


> Ordinary people who are ignorant and less understanding of software, I can ok they are clueless and hence they pirate; but when these so called techies pirate willingly knowing all the implications, spending *a lakh on a rig and mobiles and still pirating*, I can only wish one thing to them, hope all your hardware goes to smoke.



I own a cheap laptop and an E63, and no oil rigs


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## mohityadavx (May 25, 2012)

Well tech companies are also faulty

I remember my friend bought a game i think it was COD dont remember the version maybe it was modern warfare now he aint a techy just a gamer all he knows is to install a game press next, next , enter voila its done

Now he got the game but didnt had internet connection (sad but true was bcoming a FB addict so parent disconnected) the game required to be activated via steam all money doomed. He played the game after buying a pirated game 


These cases are rare where ppl dont have internet connection but there are many such cases


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## Liverpool_fan (May 25, 2012)

Should have read the box. In Orange Box for instance it is clearly specified, "Requires a Broadband Internet connection."


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## Desmond (May 25, 2012)

@mohityadavx : You forget that India has one of the worst internet connections in the world. I agree that such cases cause people to go pirated.

for example, people are required to have a credit card in order to purchase anything from the Google Play. Now, people like me who don't have a credit card need to settle for a free alternative (which might be low on features) or warez, and considering the easy availability of warez, it is the most obvious choice.


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

Stop Piracy ,Steal Original CDs. By one of TDF mods.
Great Idea Indeed.


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## gopi_vbboy (May 25, 2012)

papul1993 said:


> I think SBI branches here(near where I live, not in the whole state) use pirated Windows XP. They use web pages to do all the work.(In IE 6) No software on the local machine. They can easily use Linux. But who is gonna tell them?



Its not about moving.They have some stupid web applications that runs only on IE.Blame IE.


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## ssk_the_gr8 (May 25, 2012)

hsr said:


> I own a cheap laptop and an E63, and no oil rigs



e63.. Must have cost 8k, so it's not like you're poor. Now if you used a 1100...
So my point is that when you needed the smartphone you had the money. Same way if PS was not easily available on piratebay, you would have paid for it. 
And paint.net and gimp together can easily do your college magazine stuff, so your argument of good enough alternative does not work
And lastly if you still don't find them good enough, using Ps is not your birth right


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## gopi_vbboy (May 25, 2012)

and the other problem why linux market isn't penetrating is bad driver support from hardware vendors.Most of them only say "Designed for Microsoft*".I think Hardware manufacturers needs to provide linux support.Like if you buy a printers for example , you must be sure it will work in linux.



Liverpool_fan said:


> The way people shamelessly pirate Photoshop and MS Office is precisely the reason why those tools have the monopoly.
> Because of those idiots who pirate and use MS Office, _my_ freedom of using ODF is lost and _I_ have to face problems with formatting of MS Office documents. With absolutely no fault of mine.
> 
> Bet who vouch for PS and other stuff, have not even laid their hands to other tools. Corel Paint Shop Pro is like $50, one can afford it, for instance. But no let's make excuses and continue pirating and be "proud" of it. Might not serve all purposes, but considering how those lol guys use the software, even Paint.NET will be enough for them. And for the microscopic minority who actually make full use of it while pirating it, should eventually buy it considering the productivity they have derived from it before they spend lakhs on rigs or Nokia Lumias.
> ...


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## koolent (May 25, 2012)

Lol.. Apps that run only on IE.. I mean, India can never step ahead with applications that only run on IE 6. WTF..

Plus they run pirated XP.. LOL..

And so they say:

Desh Smart Ban Raha HaI..

Ans- "Please Bit*h"


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## dashing.sujay (May 25, 2012)

^Of the people, for the people, *BY* the people.


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## tarey_g (May 25, 2012)

The simple reason is that Indians earn in rupee, and they don't want to spend in dollars.

Direct conversion of the price of the app for Indian market is completely stupid. Until they have region specific prices for software, this bad practice will continue (Google market gives liberty to app devs of setting region specific prices manually, but we don't see much use of this feature). Compared to hardware, you don't have to make a entire new unit and ship it to a consumer.

Its very easy to take benefit of such good system of distribution of copies of your app, but corporations just dot want to ditch the old model even though the times have changed. 

Where these corps see millions of pirates, I see millions of potential customers.


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## dashing.sujay (May 25, 2012)

Remember when XP used to cost 25k. 7 HB costs 5k now. I can say surely that this reduction must have brought down OS piracy by at least 20% if not completely. Point is if the cost is such that everyone can afford according to their use (like HB, HP, pro/UL), everyone will start buying a genuine OS. IMO the ideal cost is something around 1k(HB)-5k(UL). Its just a rough estimate, but since masses pirate, large selling volumes (genuine) will obviously will never incur loss. Companies will always be in profit, just that *if* we do what we are expected.


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

What people dont understand
Why should i spend 100+ buck on that app.Let me download it via cyd*a.
What they fail to see is that Cydia.Has lots of virus.The App store of cydia is having many viruses+the apps in cydia are not updated.So they get apps for free + some viruses that might steal their data

Lol the police themselves are indulged in these.I remember seeing 100's of push carts selling cd's in Bangalore.


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## Liverpool_fan (May 25, 2012)

Games are pretty cheap in Steam. But people still pirate it. Also many games come with reduced pricing in Indian retail. Indians still pirate it.


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## dashing.sujay (May 25, 2012)

^Habit.


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

Assassins creed 2/brotherhood are now 247 rs(Original) people should buy this one



Liverpool_fan said:


> Games are pretty cheap in Steam. But people still pirate it. Also many games come with reduced pricing in Indian retail. Indians still pirate it.



Only during sales


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## tarey_g (May 25, 2012)

ssk_the_gr8 said:


> So my point is that when you needed the smartphone you had the money. Same way if PS was not easily available on piratebay, you would have paid for it.



Wrong. 

If PS was not available for free, people would not have used it at all. It would never have been mainstream with budding editors which in future will/are work/working with companies using the most popular photo editing tool (thanks to the features and the number of trained freshers in the market on that particular tool). 

I don't judge piracy in black and white, there is much good happening for companies due to this. And forget Indian public, even people in US don't see the value for money sometimes. Not just the middle class there, digg.com owner Kevin Rose had confessed on video that he pirated Photoshop in college days because it was too damn costly. That person was boss Oink recently (now works for google), a small startup employing people and using legit licenses of Photoshop for mac.


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

koolent said:


> Lol.. Apps that run only on IE.. I mean, India can never step ahead with applications that only run on IE 6. WTF..
> 
> Plus they run pirated XP.. LOL..
> 
> ...



Padhega (Engineering) India tabhi to Age badhega India.

In Colleges the old monks teach the same old crap to their pupil which they learnt 20 yrs Back assisted by those IT Books by Legendary Indian Authors and then are born the eternal Genius out of 4 yrs of Solid Veteran Learning,
And then with their CREATIVITY they deliver high Performance applications which arent Resource hungry...see it runs on IE6 Backed by WinXP...now thats called Professional Excellency..why use Genuine Windows 7 or Linux Novelity with Opera when Indian developers can make it happen on Pirated Old Stuff..Millions saved..ECONOMY PRESERVED...STILL PRICE RISES. FOR BASIC COMMODITIES...Mission Succesful
l##SICK##


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## tarey_g (May 25, 2012)

serpent16 said:


> Assassins creed 2/brotherhood are now 247 rs(Original) people should buy this one



If the game was  released here for 499/- it would have meant something. PC gamers are usually luckier with prices, console gamers on the other hand are totally f*cked.


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

Sujeet said:


> Padhega (Engineering) India tabhi to Age badhega India.
> 
> In Colleges the old monks teach the same old crap to their pupil which they learnt 20 yrs Back assisted by those IT Books by Legendary Indian Authors and then are born the eternal Genius out of 4 yrs of Solid Veteran Learning,
> And then with their CREATIVITY they deliver high Performance applications which arent Resource hungry...see it runs on IE6 Backed by WinXP...now thats called Professional Excellency..why use Genuine Windows 7 or Linux Novelity with Opera when Indian developers can make it happen on Pirated Old Stuff..Millions saved..ECONOMY PRESERVED...STILL PRICE RISES. FOR BASIC COMMODITIES...Mission Succesful
> l##SICK##



+1.Yeah exactly many design schools still run on old crappy versions of photoshop cs2


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> Games are pretty cheap in Steam. But people still pirate it. Also many games come with reduced pricing in Indian retail. Indians still pirate it.


Hi Speed Broadband is still a dream in major Part of the country.

People are still reluctant in Online Transactions.

A small species named Collector prefers Hard Copy over Soft Copy.

A lot of Sub urban ,and remote parts of country still is untouched by Good Courier Service.So online stores like Flipkart are rendered Useless.


Keeping all this in mind ,even in the farthest corner of Country you can have your Pirated Windows DVD or Game for few Bucks.So the Problem is solved right there.Have experienced it Myself.


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## hsr (May 25, 2012)

ssk_the_gr8 said:


> e63.. Must have cost 8k, so it's not like you're poor. Now if you used a 1100...
> So my point is that when you needed the smartphone you had the money. Same way if PS was not easily available on piratebay, you would have paid for it.
> And paint.net and gimp together can easily do your college magazine stuff, so your argument of good enough alternative does not work
> And lastly if you still don't find them good enough, using Ps is not your birth right



Yes, it is lol. I can't perform that well in other software, and I find using multiple tools not so reliable. Besides my co designers work in Photoshop. Are you saying I should give up my phone and buy Photoshop instead?, again it's not practical.

I will buy PS, even if I don't need it, once I have a job. I currently am not at all in a condition to buy software worth 10K+


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## CommanderShawnzer (May 25, 2012)

ah.... finally my favourite topic PIRACY(and how to troll those damn, pirates)
though i am usually against blaming everything on "Indian culture"
sadly piracy is a part of the modern indian mentality/culture nearly *ALL* indians are pirates
there are two types of pirate indians


*they get pirated stuff,but NEVER acknowledge it*
 : E.g once i asked my friend Rohan what games does he have on his PC.


Spoiler



Rohan :i Have Crysis,DMC 4,FARCRY 2 and other good stuff 
Me : how do you get your   games Disc or Download ?  
Rohan : Download.
Me :  which site?(i expected something like "Origin" or "steam" to come out of his mouth)
Rohan : DCplusplus
me :   Then  thats a file sharing site you dumbass,thats piracy
Rohan : DOWNLOADING IS NOT PIRACY!!!!!
Me : YOU YELLING AT ME YOU BLOODY STICK INSECT!!! DOWNLOADING IS NOT PIRACY DOWNLOADING COMMERCIAL GAMES FROM FILESHARING SITE IS PIRACY!!!!!



*
They get pirated stuff,and get a kick out of it/are proud of it
* :E.g most of TDF members and the duffer kids from my school


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## Sujeet (May 25, 2012)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> ah.... finally my favourite topic PIRACY(and how to troll those damn, pirates)
> though i am usually against blaming everything on "Indian culture"
> sadly piracy is a part of the modern indian mentality/culture nearly *ALL* indians are pirates
> there are two types of pirate indians
> ...



Still Wondering how are you calling Millions of Indian who havent even used or seen a Computer in first Place to be Pirates...


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## Liverpool_fan (May 25, 2012)

You forgot the third type. They don't even know that their system assembler has bundled pirated software with their PC. For them "it all comes with the PC."


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## CommanderShawnzer (May 25, 2012)

@sujeet
Read the word in size "1" font before _*ALL*_


CommanderShawnzer said:


> ah
> sadly piracy is a part of the modern indian mentality/culture nearly *ALL* indians are pirates





Liverpool_fan said:


> You forgot the third type. They don't even know that their system assembler has bundled pirated software with their PC. For them "it all comes with the PC."



+1 
one more good point
___________________________________________



in india piracy is taken very casually(i.e very harmless "free" downloading or
buying cheap movies from your "_moviewala_" on a cart) whereas in the west it is akin to stealing
the thing is the idiotic indians and the primitive indian culture fails to recognise software/games/movies as personal/intellectual property
hence it is treated very casually even by the "*servants of the Law*"


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

In 2009 the computer wala put a pir*ted Anti-virus.Told us it original and charged *** bucks :O


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## hsr (May 25, 2012)

^ speaking of which, original Kaspersky is being sold like hot cake in my town, I found this out after a while sitting at the shop. A few even came in and got original windows too(ver very rare in my muncipality).
And I live in Kochi for my college, and people there tend to buy McAfee and Kaspersky for 500 - 1200 bucks but is reluctant to buy Windows HB for 5k. The assembling guys also "recommend" pirated windows...
Funny part is, some even have "original" Ubuntu and "cracked" Ubuntu. Same stuff they install, with "original" you get the official CD and they charge you 300 or so, and cracked it's free...


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## theserpent (May 25, 2012)

^^ Lol.
the thing my computer person did is kinda illegal to talk here.And i might get you know


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## dashing.sujay (May 26, 2012)

*torrentfreak.com/the-avengers-why-pirates-failed-to-prevent-a-box-office-record-120508/



> Of all the people who downloaded a pirate copy of the film about 20% came from the US. This means that roughly 100,000 Americans have downloaded a copy online through BitTorrent. Now, IF all these people bought a movie ticket instead then box office revenue would be just 0.5% higher.





> A recent study showed that the US box office is *not suffering* from movie piracy, but that there is a detrimental effect on international box office figures.


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## Anorion (May 26, 2012)

apps/software

pirate windows, use original anti-virus


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## mohityadavx (May 26, 2012)

Well as LFC_Fan said that orange box has warning that it requires internet coonection og course its my friend's fault but his question to this is -

Why the hell I shall go through all these hassles when I have already paid to the damn developer Using pirated game is much more convenient


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## Vyom (May 26, 2012)

Interesting/Educational/Eye opening thread. Thanks to the members for putting some points worth noting.

There are people who pirate stuff for the thrill.. and since they "can". 
There are other people who are not aware that some softwares are not "meant" to be free. They also lack the knowledge that software costs resources like manpower and infrastructure.
Some are just incapable to spend due to lack of money (like hsr, lol). Of course there are alternatives to applications which such people use and can still revert to Open source if they want. 

While there are some niche categories of people who are incapable to spend even if they want to due to payment options (like me ), but then I don't pirate stuff anymore.

There are enough alternatives and resources to get any one started.

Quoting this from my post in an other forum:

_"Let me first begin by saying that I am not against people who pirate, but many don't realize that majority of the times we don't need to pirate softwares.

Thanks to all those Open Source projects and supporters out there, like *SourceForge* and *Mozilla* we have no dearth of choices when it comes to software. Almost for every paid software we have a open source alternative. It just takes few more clicks to search for that.
For eg, on download.com you can apply a filter to see just the free to use apps.

That being said, there ARE some softwares which don't have open source alternative. Like Visual Studio and SQL Server. But guess what, you can get free and perfectly legal version of THEM TOO.
*Dreamspark*, a Microsoft's initiative provide free downloads to the students of schools and Universities of apps like Visual Studio 2010, SQL Server 2008 and Windows Server 2003!

Of course Linux is *the best* thing that could have happened to the world of OS. And it's free.

With all these free alternatives, I don't think there is any reason why someone, specially students (which majority of us are), needs to pirate anything!"_

There's a reason for the following quote, "The best things in life are Free"


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## nbaztec (May 26, 2012)

Vyom said:


> There's a reason for the following quote, "The best things in life are Free"



..yet Adobe's Creative Suite's a b!tch.


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## hsr (May 26, 2012)

I am not poor, just not enough extra cash to buy Photoshop :'(


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## ssk_the_gr8 (May 26, 2012)

hsr said:


> I am not poor, just not enough extra cash to buy Photoshop :'(



you've dug a hole my friend.. a hole


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## nbaztec (May 26, 2012)

hsr said:


> I am not poor, just not enough extra cash to buy Photoshop :'(



I call this meme material. 

*s17.postimage.org/ipp8f0obh/S3_Bp_U.png


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## Vyom (May 27, 2012)

nbaztec said:


> I call this meme material.



I am tempted to make that for him. But he already has one up his sleeve! 
(*i.imgur.com/uGQPG.jpg)


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## CommanderShawnzer (May 27, 2012)

mohityadavx said:


> Well as LFC_Fan said that orange box has warning that it requires internet coonection og course its my friend's fault but his question to this is -
> 
> Why the hell I shall go through all these hassles when I have already paid to the damn developer Using pirated game is much more convenient



why? because if you don't, how can the publisher be sure that YOU ARE NOT A PIRATE!!!!!!!!!
_______________________________________________
all this DRM shite came because of Torrent sites,what most of the content consists of and torrent users.....................................


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## Liverpool_fan (May 27, 2012)

mohityadavx said:


> Well as LFC_Fan said that orange box has warning that it requires internet coonection og course its my friend's fault but his question to this is -
> 
> Why the hell I shall go through all these hassles when I have already paid to the damn developer Using pirated game is much more convenient



Have to agree, DRM is retarded but let's face it - it's just due to the cheapo pirates that the companies got the excuse to shove DRM on our faces in the first place.
As for Steam is concerned, it contains integration with Steamworks and other such stuff.


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## Anorion (May 28, 2012)

piracy pushes up the cost of the pirated software
its obviously not true that the entire software empire is funded by imbeciles too stupid to pirate software
people are willing to pay for stuff, its just that payment is not an option, 
mostly because of factors like no internet option all the time, can't really imagine not being connected all the time when so many apps are web based

friend wanted to buy an Android app. for some reason, this particular one was not cheaper in the droid store when compared to the iOS store (Orbital). He was still ok with the pricing, but before he could pay, another friend downloaded and gave it to him for free. 
now,friend of mine has a Macbook, and got a few games on some recent sales memorial day and because we may, picked up asphalt, world of goo and psychonauts (one of these is a mobile title btw). now a bunch of us played through the games, and were on the lookout for new ones, when people who didnt own the macbook offered their credit cards so my friend could buy more games - just so all of us could play through those ones as well. 

so, when piracy is not an option (a) things are awesome cheap!! - ppl will buy apps for others, for devices they dont yet own, for no other reason than its a good game on sale and (b) people have absolutely no hang-ups about paying for it


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## ssk_the_gr8 (May 29, 2012)

well as you've pointed out.. i guess drm was a step in the right direction, if not 100% right.
if there is no way to pirate, people will reluctantly pay and cost will go down for everybody


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## tarey_g (May 29, 2012)

ssk_the_gr8 said:


> well as you've pointed out.. i guess drm was a step in the right direction, if not 100% right.
> if there is no way to pirate, people will reluctantly pay and cost will go down for everybody



If the DRM actually works, so far it has only been pain for consumers. My friend bought some game, installed it and called me about why he has to put DVD in the drive every time he clicks the icon on the desktop to play (ye that's how he asked me). I told him its basic type of DRM, and if he does not want to go through this stupid activity every time, research on internet.


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## Liverpool_fan (May 29, 2012)

DRM = Epic fail.
Steam is the ONLY DRM I can live with and that's only due to great discounts, summer/winter camp, Steamworks extra stuff, etc.


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## CommanderShawnzer (May 29, 2012)

For the sins of them cheapo thieving pirates,paying software/game consumers(like me) have to pay(DRM)


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## Minion (May 30, 2012)

lots a free alternative are their no need to use pirated software.


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## Sujeet (May 30, 2012)

You Have Downloaded - We show what you downloaded


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## hsr (May 30, 2012)

^ that is nothing but a pudding of crap. Anyone who knows the difference between static IP and dynamic IP should know it.


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## Sujeet (May 30, 2012)

^^
That is meant for Lulz only.Its A Prank to freak out Torrent freaks.


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## pramudit (May 31, 2012)

in india, people think that only hardware has got manufacturing costs but software is just copy paste so why buy it...
me and my friends also used pirated software for a long but now realising mistake we are now opting for FOSS alternatives and also asking others to quit pirated software...


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## kisame (Jun 1, 2012)

Pirating windows is a necessary evil(you wont be able to convince your parents to buy a piece of software).However if you are earning its your decision.
While I pirate windows,I use FOSS for everything else.e.g office,gimp,etc.


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## Sujeet (Jun 1, 2012)

kisame said:


> Pirating windows is a necessary evil(you wont be able to convince your parents to buy a piece of software).However if you are earning its your decision.
> While I pirate windows,*I use FOSS for everything else.e.g office,gimp,etc.*



That redeems you from Your sins of piracy.!


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## kisame (Jun 1, 2012)

Sujeet said:


> That redeems you from Your sins of piracy.!



Right now piracy ain't a sin in India
Its in the mindset of the people that software is free.However that does not justify my acts of piracy but I have no choice.


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## masterkd (Jun 1, 2012)

Yea..I found lots of people(friends, co workers) laugh at me because I buy games and softwares..some of them even make jokes and taunt me when they get chance over this!!

I remember when I just got my 50th original game title, I was so excited, I bragged a little bit over it and one of my friend killed my mood(read: insulted me) because of my nature of asking others to buy original stuffs..the funny thing is he gets Rs. 20480 on last day of month in his account, develops software for living (works in IT industry)!!


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## Nanducob (Jun 1, 2012)

masterkd said:


> Yea..I found lots of people(friends, co workers) laugh at me because I buy games and softwares..some of them even make jokes and taunt me when they get chance over this!!
> 
> I remember when I just got my 50th original game title, I was so excited, I bragged a little bit over it and one of my friend killed my mood(read: insulted me) because of my nature of asking others to buy original stuffs..the funny thing is he gets Rs. 20480 on last day of month in his account, develops software for living (works in IT industry)!!



why dont u tell them that by buying an app u will have their support 24x7 and will get upgrades for less amounts and sometimes free,also will be free of virus.i respect people who r buying the original product,so kudos to u.it becomes 2X sin when u pirate something and brag about  also making fun of them,who buys the product


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## Nanducob (Jun 9, 2012)

@praveenbv,Tfs for the link


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## ajai5777 (Jun 26, 2012)

There is difference between incomes of people in developed countries compared to india. Thats why they can afford to pay for apps and games but for an indian the prices of games and applications are so high compared to the monthly income. How can some one with 15k salary afford a game @ 2.5k ? The only software I have ever bought is FIFA 12 @ 804/- as I am a die hard FIFA fan.I didnt have any other option to play online. I am against paying for apps and games unless it is cheap enough.


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## ssk_the_gr8 (Jun 26, 2012)

ajai5777 said:


> There is difference between incomes of people in developed countries compared to india. Thats why they can afford to pay for apps and games but for an indian the prices of games and applications are so high compared to the monthly income. How can some one with 15k salary afford a game @ 2.5k ? The only software I have ever bought is FIFA 12 @ 804/- as I am a die hard FIFA fan.I didnt have any other option to play online. I am against paying for apps and games unless it is cheap enough.



again, it is not your birth right to use those apps, if you don't have the money don't buy it , don't justify your stealing


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## Liverpool_fan (Jun 26, 2012)

ajai5777 said:


> There is difference between incomes of people in developed countries compared to india. Thats why they can afford to pay for apps and games but for an indian the prices of games and applications are so high compared to the monthly income. How can some one with 15k salary afford a game @ 2.5k ? The only software I have ever bought is FIFA 12 @ 804/- as I am a die hard FIFA fan.I didnt have any other option to play online. I am against paying for apps and games unless it is cheap enough.



Game at ₹2500? Those are usually Activision (morons) or Console games. Consoles are steep. On the other hand, PC games are cheap anyway.
FIFA @ ₹804 is reasonable. Bet you have treated yourself to dinners at restaurants at even higher prices. Imagine, ₹804 to enjoy a year of FIFA gaming. A year of entertainment. You'll find barely something as reasonable outside gaming. Heck you don't need to buy FIFA every year anyway, so it can be more.

The affordability argument is nothing but an idiotic excuse. If it is Adobe CS, I could give a benefit, they don't even apparently have student or startup based packages and they cost a bomb. Maybe even Windows and MS Office to an extent. But mobile software and games? NO EXCUSE AT ALL.

₹15k salary? Can easily afford to spend ₹7-8k over 3 years like I did and own 100+ games.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 26, 2012)

ssk_the_gr8 said:


> again, it is not your birth right to use those apps, if you don't have the money don't buy it , don't justify your stealing



piracy is not stealing...piracy does not constitute direct loss of sale to company...stealing means going to the store ,taking something off the shelf and leave without paying it...so it constitutes some loss ..In doing so thief takes something tangible out of store...hence the cost involved in manufacturing the cd ,burning ,etc can cause loss.

But piracy means a person sits in front of computer ..opens some websites...downloading without the knowledge of company....he doesn't cause any manufacturing loss.. But that doesn't mean that he cost the company any money. Its not acceptable action.Thats All.

It's unfortunate that groups like the RIAA and other software companies equate piracy with stealing

The only way out is make people buy more software by making them feel the worth of 
the money they pay.

1.Offer software by affordable pricing and innovative ways.
2.Provide Effortless way to buy and access software online.
3.Copy protection is OK.But should not nag legitimate users


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## Liverpool_fan (Jun 26, 2012)

Piracy is definitely not stealing. Please don't use the mafIAA's language. Piracy is retarded for creative industries and the way it hurts open source but please it is not stealing.


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## theserpent (Jun 26, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> *Game at ₹2500? Those are usually Activision (morons) or Console games. Consoles are steep. On the other hand, PC games are cheap anyway.*
> FIFA @ ₹804 is reasonable. Bet you have treated yourself to dinners at restaurants at even higher prices. Imagine, ₹804 to enjoy a year of FIFA gaming. A year of entertainment. You'll find barely something as reasonable outside gaming. Heck you don't need to buy FIFA every year anyway, so it can be more.
> 
> The affordability argument is nothing but an idiotic excuse. If it is Adobe CS, I could give a benefit, they don't even apparently have student or startup based packages and they cost a bomb. Maybe even Windows and MS Office to an extent. But mobile software and games? NO EXCUSE AT ALL.
> ...



+1.Well even bethesda etc they put games for 2.5k How on earth can anyone buy it.
Yeah a person who earns 15k.Wont even think of buying a game costing 1k.
As his living expenses alone will account to around 12k(RENT+food+electricty+movies+hotels+mobile bills+transport).
Well i doubt he wil spend the remaining money on games .

Offtopic:
Eg a person in Mcdonalds in india earns  40/hour and can not afford an BIG Mac.A person in usa earns 360/hour.He can afford around 2 big macs.
This is not my calculation but it came in Times of india.
Same goes with a maid who works abroad she can easily earn 150-1200/daily compared to indias 50-100/daily.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jun 26, 2012)

If the person who is earning 15k is spending ₹6-7k on graphics card, he can surely buy a game worth ₹1k every now and then. And he'll find a lot of games below $10 especially during Steam sales. There is absolutely no excuse. Whatsoever.


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## theserpent (Jun 26, 2012)

If he is saving yes.Other wise i highly doubt he would game.As gaming is very expensive.There gamers who update worth 20-40k a year


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## ajai5777 (Jun 26, 2012)

By 2.5k I meant COD. Think of windows OS, how many people will actually buy it for their desktop? I doubt even 5% of personal users buy it for their PC.But do microsoft take any action against OS piracy in india? Nothing they are silently allowing it and people get all the updates like paid version.Because they know that nobody is gonna buy it in that price in india except organisations.They dont want people to move away to free OS's thats why they do that. Our corrupted politicians, private organisations, even public sector organisations (oil companies) are stealing from us and making crores. Compared to that piracy is nothing. Piracy is already a part of our system. Without the pirated mp3s how many music players or mobiles would have been sold in india? Hardware sales will go all the way down if piracy is completely stopped in india. Companies know that and they dont want that to happen.Its all a game so enjoy your part in that 

Only way to reduce piracy is to make the pricing reasonable for software products in india.If one can afford the products in his budget why would he steal it?


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## Liverpool_fan (Jun 26, 2012)

ajai5777 said:


> By 2.5k I meant COD.


CoD is not even worth ₹500. It's not even worth looking at. Avoid the game.



> Think of windows OS, how many people will actually buy it for their desktop?


Home Basic can be reasonable. Especially if you are building a PC > ₹35k. And you can always use a much superior operating system - Any of the mainstream Linux distros.


> I doubt even 5% of personal users buy it for their PC.


They are not reasonably punished for it (either in terms of performance, features or fines).



> But do microsoft take any action against OS piracy in india? Nothing they are silently allowing it and people get all the updates like paid version.Because they know that nobody is gonna buy it in that price in india except organisations.They dont want people to move away to free OS's thats why they do that.


Completely correct. And this is precisely why I am against piracy.



> Our corrupted politicians, private organisations, even public sector organisations (oil companies) are stealing from us and making crores. Compared to that piracy is nothing


Unrelated stuff.


> Piracy is already a part of our system. Without the pirated mp3s how many
> music players or mobiles would have been sold in india?


Nope. Companies (the hardware ones) would have found innovative ways to push sale of MP3s.



> Hardware sales will go all the way down if piracy is completely stopped in india. Companies know that and they dont want that to happen.Its all a game so enjoy your part in that


Hardware sales would NOT be affected. Only the software giants like Microsoft, and Adobe will lose and people will move to Free software. In fact it will propel the sale of more hardware (the more use of Open source). Look at Android devices.



> Only way to reduce piracy is to make the pricing reasonable for software products in india.If one can afford the products in his budget why would he steal it?


Games are completey reasonable. Research their prices before claiming anything. The point is people don't even try Steam sales, and quote one overrated game such as COD and try to portray as if they are overpriced. They are not.


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## ajai5777 (Jun 26, 2012)

Not only COD even 1k for games is costly for an Indian. Hardware sales will be affected if piracy is completely stopped. If no free mp3s are available, music player sales will be affected, PS3 Xbox sales will be affected if pirated game discs are not available, graphics card, sytem components sales will be affected if all the games should be bought in order to play etc etc..


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## Vyom (Jun 26, 2012)

ajai5777 said:


> Not only COD even 1k for games is costly for an Indian. Hardware sales will be affected if piracy is completely stopped. If no free mp3s are available, music player sales will be affected, PS3 Xbox sales will be affected if pirated game discs are not available, graphics card, sytem components sales will be affected if all the games should be bought in order to play etc etc..





Dude.. do you even know.. what are you talking about?


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## koolent (Jun 26, 2012)

ajai5777 said:


> Not only COD even 1k for games is costly for an Indian. Hardware sales will be affected if piracy is completely stopped. If no free mp3s are available, music player sales will be affected, PS3 Xbox sales will be affected if pirated game discs are not available, graphics card, sytem components sales will be affected if all the games should be bought in order to play etc etc..



In favour or against piracy ?


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## Chaitanya (Jul 1, 2012)

Piracy is bad

Steal the originals


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## Desmond (Jul 1, 2012)

I used to think piracy is justified when I was a student, not earning and living off my parents income. But, now that I am earning, I feel somewhat ashamed about piracy and therefore try to buy games whenever I can.

However, IMHO, the companies themselves are responsible for piracy of their products. I am unable to purchase something from Steam because they do not accept Maestro cards, same for Google Play. For this purpose, I will have to transfer funds to another account, for which I have a Visa card, wait till the funds get credited and then buy it. Sometimes, I have missed a discount because the funds didn't get credited on time. Getting a pirated copy of the game/app is much less trouble in comparison.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## d6bmg (Jul 2, 2012)

As long as availability is an issue (which happen to most of the pirated software) piracy will be here.


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## Alien (Oct 20, 2012)

Piracy is a byproduct of *Availability* and *Affordability*. I buy PC games, use free software (used pirated earlier), buy Indian movies (since moserbaer entered Indian movie business) but pirate International movies. Suppose i want to watch a French  or Korean or some other language movie, it is not to be seen anywhere. Even the available ones may be highly edited by someone who thinks (after watching the movie) that the viewer is a retard, he wouldn't be able to watch its content, so lets edit it; while we can get the full movie at our fingertips (FOR FREE). And piracy has nothing to do with Indian culture. There are people who use pirated stuff in the US, UK, other European countries, even in Liverpool. Software/Movie piracy wasn't even started by Indians. Indians may not have civic sense, may not have respect for laws but Indian culture has nothing to do with piracy.


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## Nipun (Oct 20, 2012)

I always try to buy originals, and try to make others purchase too(I got my cousin this habit too). But for some games/softwares that require credit card for purchase, I feel sorry and have to pirate them as I don't have access to a CC. However, I got a minecraft account after playing for months on pirated one because I really liked that game. Playing pirated games invokes a feeling of doing something wrong, don't know why.



theserpent said:


> Offtopic:
> Eg a person in Mcdonalds in india earns  40/hour and can not afford an BIG Mac.A person in usa earns 360/hour.He can afford around 2 big macs.
> This is not my calculation but it came in Times of india.
> Same goes with a maid who works abroad she can easily earn 150-1200/daily compared to indias 50-100/daily.



I maybe wrong, but:
"150-2000", I assume this is in Rupees. In dollars they are $3-$20. What do you think you can do by it? Or do you expect them to come to India to spend that money?


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## Anorion (Oct 20, 2012)

the S3 has a little apk transfer app
it works like this, you select a list of programs, and you can send em all together


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## JojoTheDragon (Oct 20, 2012)

Speaking about games :
Move to steam sales, save bucks for retail. 

Speaking about software on desktop os:
move to open source software and OS.  Now that steam is coming to linux , there is a chance the windows craze will end. If games were on linux, I would've never bothered about windows.

Speaking about software on Nazi Platform like "iOS"
...



 Frankly speaking, I will pay for games but I never ever feel like paying for software. But at the end of the day, I would do anything to get my job done, by hook or by crook.


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## Anorion (Nov 12, 2012)

You don’t know how lucky you are: Stop complaining about in-app purchases | ExtremeTech



> Why are users so unwilling to spend a few dollars on what is clearly an excellent game? Frankly, I think we’re complacent — we’ve all forgotten just how good we have it.
> 
> Most people in their early 20′s or younger have probably never set foot in an games arcade. Or if they have, it was a novelty — a special occasion. For the slightly older set, this is just how we played high-end games. You would saunter up to that big arcade cabinet with a pocketful of quarters, and you would pay for the privilege of playing the game. If you died, you used real money to make an “in-game purchase” for more lives.
> 
> In the mid 90s, arcades started to go away as home game consoles got cheaper and faster. Somewhere along the line, we forgot how much money you could blow just playing a game. When you look at the way Dead Trigger responsibly manages in-app purchases, it’s an unparalleled good deal. You can buy all the gear you could want and play for many hours — longer than it would take to beat most other mobile games.


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## Anorion (Dec 4, 2012)

Battle Dungeon - Home



> Unfortunately we have taken Battle Dungeon down for the forseeable future. This was due to high levels of server load created by large numbers of pirated copies of the game. The high load revealed technical issues which we don't feel we can fix to the level that our paying customers deserve.




very good job pirates


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## theserpent (Dec 4, 2012)

Nipun said:


> I always try to buy originals, and try to make others purchase too(I got my cousin this habit too). But for some games/softwares that require credit card for purchase, I feel sorry and have to pirate them as I don't have access to a CC. However, I got a minecraft account after playing for months on pirated one because I really liked that game. Playing pirated games invokes a feeling of doing something wrong, don't know why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read that in TOI, It said a Person in MC there earns 6$/Hr so he works 8 hours in a day = around 64$.
Things like games are priced higher there, But still other things are equal to or less than the prices of India, and the "quality" and "quantity" of those things(food etc) are better


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## Nipun (Dec 4, 2012)

theserpent said:


> I read that in TOI, It said a Person in MC there earns 6$/Hr so he works 8 hours in a day = around 64$.
> Things like games are priced higher there, But still other things are equal to or less than the prices of India, and the "quality" and "quantity" of those things(food etc) are better



This contradicts with what you said in previous post. 
Also, I don't blindly trust newspapers. Just a bunch of idiots writing whatever they want, without proper research about the truth.


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## pratyush997 (Dec 4, 2012)

> The kind of adrenaline rush that Indians get out of free stuff is hilarious.


So Freaking True!!


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## theserpent (Dec 4, 2012)

Nipun said:


> This contradicts with what you said in previous post.
> Also, I don't blindly trust newspapers. Just a bunch of idiots writing whatever they want, without proper research about the truth.



Nop bro it's true, Almost everyone even a maid gets thripple daily wages in countrys like UAE,USA etc.
A maid can easily get 50-100 Dhs-600 Rs/Day.

*www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Salaries-E432.htm

But whatever Buying original is good, why?
Safe from trojans,keyloggers
You'll get updates
Your supporting the developers

But why are so many games priced above 1k  not many can get them.



pratyush997 said:


> So Freaking True!!



+1.
I don't know how to explain my friend DRM,CD-KEY crap
So he's my gta 4, I said i can't give cause it wont work in your computer as it's activated in my PC. 
He's telling me to pass my social id too along with it, which i won't


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## X 0 N 0 D E (Dec 4, 2012)

Haven't obviously read all 11 pages, but a very good thread I must say. I don't know where to start. It is moral vs immoral,  honest vs dishonest perspective and all that.

I have, till date, not paid for a single software. I will be honest, I can't & don't want to. 
Why? Cost of living. 
Have u observed, that all those propagating the view that people in US are paying for the software, are missing two points:

1. In the US, the cost of living is not this high (AFAIK)

2. The Govt supports the common man waaayyyy more than our beloved Govt.

3. They have many schemes going on when it comes to phones.

4. And lastly, how do we know there is no piracy there? In fact, most leaks happen THERE and come down here. THEY torrent softwares/games and we just download it.

I may be wrong, but these are my opinions.


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## Anorion (Dec 5, 2012)

why buy the device then not pay for the apps?
you dont steal a loaf of bread every morning
even in jhopdis and footpath hutments, if you can afford satellite tv, you can easily afford apps 
 app piracy puts load on the producer in such a way that the apps dont exist anymore


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## X 0 N 0 D E (Dec 5, 2012)

Anorion said:


> why buy the device then not pay for the apps?
> you dont steal a loaf of bread every morning
> even in jhopdis and footpath hutments, if you can afford satellite tv, you can easily afford apps
> app piracy puts load on the producer in such a way that the apps dont exist anymore



I agree, but hey, don't forget, if i am ripping someone off, someone is ripping me off too.
It's that simple.

See this:

*www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/04/top_25_app_devs_earn_half_of_revenue/


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## Anorion (Dec 5, 2012)

^how are you getting ripped off?


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## ico (Dec 5, 2012)

X 0 N 0 D E said:


> 1. In the US, the cost of living is not this high (AFAIK)


Wrong. Cost of living in USA is much much higher compared to India.



X 0 N 0 D E said:


> 2. The Govt supports the common man waaayyyy more than our beloved Govt.


Not related with the topic.

Any one who can buy a Rs. 60K laptop can spend a couple of grands on software. Anyone who spends Rs. 500 on a pizza can spend Rs. 50 on two-three mobile apps.


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## Nipun (Dec 5, 2012)

If you can't purchase a software, why not to opt for its open-source alternative? Ofcourse, games are not in this category but what about OS, Office Suites etc?


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## Thetrueblueviking (Dec 5, 2012)

ico said:


> Wrong. Cost of living in USA is much much higher compared to India.
> .



But relatively, cost of living is still low. They earn much more than they spend. 


Example compare an engineers life here and there - 
An engineer here on average earns ~ 5-10 lakhs p.a and spends more than half of it and maybe saves 2-3 lakhs at the end of the year.
An engineer there on average earns ~20-25 lakhs and spends more than half of it and may be saves 9-10 lakhs at the end of the year.

Not to mention the US guy who will have spent ~10-12 lakhs on his living will be living  a far better lifestyle and saving thrice compared to the Indian.


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## doomgiver (Dec 5, 2012)

ico said:


> Any one who can buy a Rs. 60K laptop can spend a couple of grands on software. Anyone who spends Rs. 500 on a pizza can spend Rs. 50 on two-three mobile apps.



^^ little  like these get me mad. they will brag that they partied in the hilton, but when it comes to software, they wont even spare a single paisa.
same thing with the rich middle-aged women. some of them will stop their merc in the middle of the road i front of a hawker and start haggling like she is in the middle of the Great Depression.

, if you can drive around in a merc, you most certainly can pay 5 extra bucks for those potatoes.

i say tax the rich. and add a "tech" tax to those who have a smartphone, proceeds go to charity.


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## red dragon (Dec 5, 2012)

Thetrueblueviking said:


> But relatively, cost of living is still low. They earn much more than they spend.
> 
> 
> Example compare an engineers life here and there -
> An engineer here on average earns ~ 5-10 lakhs p.a and spends more than half of it and maybe saves 2-3 lakhs at the end of the year.


Engineers make a lot more here!


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## Nipun (Dec 5, 2012)

doomgiver said:


> ^^ little dipshits like these get me mad. they will brag that they partied in the hilton, but when it comes to software, they wont even spare a single paisa.
> same thing with the rich middle-aged women. some of them will stop their merc in the middle of the road i front of a hawker and start haggling like she is in the middle of the Great Depression.
> 
> if you can drive around in a merc, you most certainly can pay 5 extra bucks for those potatoes.
> ...



I don't know exact year, but there was 90%+ tax on "rich" people's earnings(before 1990 I guess). They either showed less profits or shifted business to other sectors/countries, effecting Indian economy. Taxes is not the way. Punish everyone who is downloading pirated stuff. Most of my friends don't even know piracy is wrong/crime! 

EDIT: What happened here?


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## doomgiver (Dec 5, 2012)

mods happened xD
way to go, mods!!

ninja'ing my posts.

anyway, 30-50% rich tax is good. 90 is overkill, i agree, but, when you can make 20 storey "houses" for a single family, then you can easily pay the same amount for housing the thousand+ homeless around you.


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## Vyom (Dec 5, 2012)

Last year, while using ahem version of Tapatalk, I promised myself to buy it when I receive a card that work on Google Checkout.
Today, I bought that!


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## Desmond (Dec 6, 2012)

Vyom said:


> Last year, while using ahem version of Tapatalk, I promised myself to buy it when I receive a card that work on Google Checkout.
> Today, I bought that!



Hi5s...me too.

I also bought PowerAmp and a couple of live wallpapers.

Next on my list Titanium Backup.

The reason that people avoid buying music is :

More appropriate now that iTunes is live in India.

*sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/155407_437504339638156_1164513050_n.jpg


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## Thetrueblueviking (Dec 6, 2012)

red dragon said:


> Engineers make a lot more here!



Thats a serious lol.

A person who has done MS from a decent university is easily offered ~35-45 lakhs (opening) there. My brother being one of them, has been trying to come back to India, but no company is offering more than 18. So he prefers staying there. And this is what an average engineer earns there. Just wonder what an MITian or a Harvard eng would earn 

My uncle has been a GM2 in Siemens (Mumbai) for the past 15 years and he earns close to 30 now. 

What u get as an opening package there is what u earn here after 20 years of experience.

Talk of even the IITs (where u ll find best brains in India) - if u leave the top 3 IITs, the average opening package still lingers close to 10 lakhs.


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## Anorion (Dec 6, 2012)

music/movies =/= apps 
apps have been pulled from the store for piracy, no music/movie has been dereleased or whatever the equivalent of pulled is


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## Desmond (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the local computer vendors need to be disciplined. They are the ones who are spreading pirated material in the first place. The govt  should provide licenses to computer vendors and those who are found spreading pirated software should have their license revoked.


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## RCuber (Dec 6, 2012)

BTW.. I wonder how people still manage to get the "Hot Pix" or other such subscriptions from their GSM providers.. cost 30 bucks/month.. even funny is that they can afford Rs5/pic  , watt about caller tunes etc.. 

on the other hand.. when I asked my ex-colleague from my previous company drawling healthy salary why he doesn't pay for apps.. he said.. "if I'm getting it for free then why pay??" and he is a developer. 

It has come to a time where paying for software/music/apps is by personal choice.

I am also going to buy MS Office for my dad. currently using as a trial. I use LibreOffice personally.


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## amjath (Dec 6, 2012)

People refuse to buy even $1 app cause of rupee to dollar ratio. If u see promo offers on google play or apple store people do buy apps. Similar and recent example is Windows 8.


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## swordfish (Jan 1, 2013)

Well,

one can definitely afford 50 rps for useful apps like titanium backup.. 50 rps for app is not a big cost in India. 

Now a days microsoft have also reduced the prices.. I got win 8 in just 699 rps (in upgrade offer). long time ago I had also bought office professional edition in 500 only in some promotional offer.. before that I was using student edition of office.

I also use licensed Norton internet security. 

The biggest advantage of licensed product is support and it really helps.


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## tkin (Jan 1, 2013)

I don't pay for softwares usually, mostly use free stuff, I do buy them for Android as they are cheap(poweramp etc), as for games I'd start paying as soon as I get a job.

One issue is dollar to INR ratio, an US guy paying 50$ is not same as an Indian paying 2.7k.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Jan 1, 2013)

> I also use licensed Norton internet security.


thats one place where *pirate* don't  work

The most common cause why people pirate in this country is that
*WHO'S GONNA STOP ME*
actually,no one does


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## Desmond (Jan 2, 2013)

Mainly it because people do not know that they are using pirated material. They fire up their machine running a pirated OS and find all their pirated apps in place and assume that it is part of the machine. It is starts out because of ignorance and takes root that you do not need to pay for apps which you can get for free. Also, the shopkeepers try to encourage this even more.


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## Sarath (Jan 2, 2013)

I for one am not so alarmed at the rate of piracy here, not undermining its severity but the gross overall fate of how the offerings and the market targeted are indifferent to each other.

1. *Software is overpriced, grossly overpriced.* There is no adjustment to local prices at all, making simple software pricing sound absurd considering the Purchasing power parity.



Spoiler



Do a small task. Take an equivalent of 5000 bucks with you, repeat in different countries. Go buy the same copy of software and then buy the cheapest coffee you can buy (that wont make you sick) with that money.  Take a ratio. You will find something disturbing in the results and bring out the inefficient pricing plaguing our country.
Pre-orders on PS3/Xbox games 3500bucks, Win 7 7000bucks no student offer is absurd or just for the rich and SW is supposed to be common place
(I don't use much SW so I can't give more examples. I use Open source alternatives mostly.



Spoiler






> Hello Sarath,
> Thank you for contacting Microsoft Connect Customer Service.
> 
> I understand from your email that you would like to know that if there are any offers to purchase Windows 7 for Students.
> ...








2. *No respect for Indian market by corporations.*


Spoiler



Software companies are not bothered about markets like India and do not release tailored versions for many countries. 
On one hand we have exceptions like PC games in India and PS2 games which are locally manufactured. Recently Sony announced a Blu ray manufacturing plant in India which will bring manufacturing prices down and avoid customs for disc imports making the price of gaming discs more viable. Another good and sensible step for making games more efficiently priced.
You will also notice many foreign book publishing companies release India specific (or SEA) book editions which are priced keeping local economic and social factors in mind.
Media such as songs by Flyte (by Flipkart) and movies by Shemaroo / Moser Baer pricing their products right
Such initiatives shows maturity by the parent company, along with their interest and respect to Indian market

The Android store is a big joke. The store showing the tag Indian store and Indian pricing has no stability with pricing at all. Keeps fluctuating with the dollar rate. Why can't we have a proper Indian store? The European stores don't change their prices with such frequency. 

We need more people to look at our market with respect to actually fight piracy before pointing stray fingers.


3. *Mentality of people buying legal software* 
You will see many people complaining against piracy say things like, it's ok to pirate stuff from big corporations but doing it from Indies / small developers is gross insensitivity. Buying legal SW is mostly a moral choice and that morality shows a duality here. Even among people who buy legal SW there is a disparity.

4. *Pirated content being better quality* This is not so much in the case of regular softwares as much as it is for media. Being available in different formats, better compression, no adverts (you have to pay for advertisements  )

5. *No value for software.* The price of the SW licence after you have bought it immediately becomes *zero*. You cannot re-sell it or donate it to anyone. This reflects when people buy a new system, they always buy an OS in the end for it is of the least value. A new proposed EU law touches this topic by making licenses transferable or resell able with any given time only one person having the right to use a particular SW (license)

6. *US Prices are justifiable?* Only for software licences? People are fond of saying, you can pay 50 bucks for an app when you pay so much for food, drinks, movies etc. An absurd comparison especially with products/services which have been parred down to comply with local economics. By the same analogy, people fond of EU/US prices for licences should be comfortable with paying $8-10 for a normal movie ticket in India or tip an abysmal dollar or Euro to the auto guy. The auto guy suddenly seems very humble considering he asks for a tip that is equivalent to just 20 or 40 cents, which people cry over.


<> <> <>​

Once all these problems have been addressed, maybe then we can comfortably start blaming each other culturally or pick people from our own peers and jab at them...

A lot of other points I would like to make have already been touched upon so I am not really dwelling into them again


<> <> <>​
As for me, I have been buying Indian music since school and trying to support in my own way for the music I loved. Although I now realise how even that is a hollow attempt after watching this video

I also buy legal PS software after buying my first 2 games NFS MW and Burnout and really wanted to show them my appreciation. I still continue to buy PS3 games to appreciate the effort Sony has put in. 

I do not encourage piracy, I only want effort to be put in from all sectors.


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## moniker (Jan 2, 2013)

Why people refuse to buy SW? Its not a jailable offense, as simple as that. You go to jail for shoplifting, but you don't go to jail for using a pirated app.


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## Desmond (Jan 2, 2013)

moniker said:


> Why people refuse to buy SW? Its not a jailable offense, as simple as that. You go to jail for shoplifting, but you don't go to jail for using a pirated app.



In order to jail someone for using pirated software, you need policemen who know what pirated software is.

Read this : 



> In another such case, the junior police officers had punched holes in 5.4 inch floppies of yesteryears and systematically filed them as evidence in the charge sheet with other evidence to be produced before the courts. Hard disks were copied manually, CDs were collected and binded together after punching holes through them.


Source


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## CSM (Jan 2, 2013)

the security implications are scary with pirated apks and other pirated softwares. then people wonder why their card details, login details wound up on the internet. with so much data and 24/7 connectivity people now should realize they are putting their money at risk.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Jan 2, 2013)

> 5. No value for software. The price of the SW licence after you have bought it immediately becomes zero. You cannot re-sell it or donate it to anyone. This reflects when people buy a new system, they always buy an OS in the end for it is of the least value.


dude you forgot about console games


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## Anorion (Jan 2, 2013)

uh


> Unfortunately we have taken Battle Dungeon down for the forseeable future. This was due to high levels of server load created by large numbers of pirated copies of the game. The high load revealed technical issues which we don't feel we can fix to the level that our paying customers deserve.



now what? 

yep, the US prices are justifiable only for software, almost certainly not for drugs and textbooks


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## Sarath (Jan 2, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> dude you forgot about console games



All hard copies are trad able and allowed by law actually (according to some court cases). The soft copies though are restricted. 

The next gen consoles surely will feature some way to discourage sharing or reselling of copies. Both MS and Sony wanted to do something about it.



Anorion said:


> yep, the US prices are justifiable only for software, almost certainly not for drugs and textbooks



I would resist that notion


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## Hrishi (Jan 2, 2013)

WHat happens if somebody is caught using a P*****d android app , ?? Say , you receive an email from APp developer for copyright infringm*** ??? Threatens to contact ISP , local authority , google store ?? gets access to your IP , GEo-Location , IMEI ??? 
Can this be fixed , if we buy the app from playstore ???

Actually I want to purchase apps from PlayStore but unfortunately it doesn't seems to accept Kotak NetCard/VCC or any indian Debit Card .


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## tkin (Jan 2, 2013)

Rishi. said:


> WHat happens if somebody is caught using a P*****d android app , ?? Say , you receive an email from APp developer for copyright infringm*** ??? *Threatens to contact ISP , local authority , google store ?? gets access to your IP , GEo-Location , IMEI ??? *
> Can this be fixed , if we buy the app from playstore ???
> 
> Actually I want to purchase apps from PlayStore but unfortunately it doesn't seems to accept Kotak NetCard/VCC or any indian Debit Card .


Chill dude, this is India, its not easy for some foreign app dev to come here to sue you, most app dev can't afford to chase you around like that, specially come and do it in India.

PS: I do not support piracy.


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## Hrishi (Jan 2, 2013)

tkin said:


> Chill dude, this is India, its not easy for some foreign app dev to come here to sue you, most app dev can't afford to chase you around like that, specially come and do it in India.
> 
> PS: I do not support piracy.


But is there any except Credit Cards to use at PlayStore.
I don't want to get in trouble in future.And will try to resolve this issue as well by purchasing that app.


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## Desmond (Jan 3, 2013)

Rishi. said:


> WHat happens if somebody is caught using a P*****d android app , ?? Say , you receive an email from APp developer for copyright infringm*** ??? Threatens to contact ISP , local authority , google store ?? gets access to your IP , GEo-Location , IMEI ???
> Can this be fixed , if we buy the app from playstore ???
> 
> Actually I want to purchase apps from PlayStore but unfortunately it doesn't seems to accept Kotak NetCard/VCC or any indian Debit Card .



How do you think does The Pirate Bay evade copyright infringement?

Go to TPB's site and click on Legal (something like that) and you can see all the mail that different companies have sent them and their replies.


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## Nipun (Jan 3, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> How do you think does The Pirate Bay evade copyright infringement?
> 
> Go to TPB's site and click on Legal (something like that) and you can see all the mail that different companies have sent them and their replies.



Legal threats. The Pirate Bay - The galaxy's most resilient bittorrent site


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## Pat (Jan 3, 2013)

I am proud of the fact that I have purchased 11 of the Top 15 Paid Apps in the playstore. I guess we should open a show-off thread for the Apps/Softwares legally purchased since that (showing off) is one thing that comes naturally to a lot of Indians and maybe that would lead to some of us actually purchasing wares legally.


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## Hrishi (Jan 3, 2013)

BUt what usually happens if a legal action is taken for this in India. ? Maximum penalty for it ????



Pat said:


> I am proud of the fact that I have purchased 11 of the Top 15 Paid Apps in the playstore. I guess we should open a show-off thread for the Apps/Softwares legally purchased since that (showing off) is one thing that comes naturally to a lot of Indians and maybe that would lead to some of us actually purchasing wares legally.
> 
> View attachment 8282



:eyebrow: ,  _@:


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## Desmond (Jan 3, 2013)

Nipun said:


> Legal threats. The Pirate Bay - The galaxy's most resilient bittorrent site



I am in office now and TPB is blocked by proxy so could not put the link


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## Hrishi (Jan 3, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I am in office now and TPB is blocked by proxy so could not put the link



Working late..: huh. 
But , @12:53 AM in Office ?? Are you in different  TZ ?

Can't access that site , might trigger a voilation of policies here.


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## tkin (Jan 3, 2013)

Pat said:


> I am proud of the fact that I have purchased 11 of the Top 15 Paid Apps in the playstore. I guess we should open a show-off thread for the Apps/Softwares legally purchased since that (showing off) is one thing that comes naturally to a lot of Indians and maybe that would lead to some of us actually purchasing wares legally.
> 
> View attachment 8282


Ah, but there's one problem, when you show off hardware we get jealous, cause we can't just go and steal some, but softwares, what will you show off? We'll take it and return it hundred fold(just kidding). Won't work, and as per softwares go impossible to differentiate between purchased and pirated.


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## Anorion (Jan 3, 2013)

if piracy was less, how much more software we would have, and what would be the quality of that software? 
we are jeopardizing our own computing machines, reducing the options we have with rampant piracy


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## Pat (Jan 3, 2013)

tkin said:


> Ah, but there's one problem, when you show off hardware we get jealous, cause we can't just go and steal some, but softwares, what will you show off? We'll take it and return it hundred fold(just kidding). Won't work, and as per softwares go impossible to differentiate between purchased and pirated.



Umm.Well I guess you did not see my attached screenshot. And in any case, my comment was made in a lighter vein.


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## club_pranay (Feb 20, 2013)

I think it's a multi level problem. Lack of regard of Intellectual Property in the end user's mind being the most unfortunate one.

Unofficial PC owners: Obviously a major part of the problem. These machines have no warranty, no stability and no legit software. Their target: non tech savvy people they can easily bluff.

The End Users: "you paid $$$$ for that windows? I paid just Rs100 LoL " is a common remark. All they want is all the latest new movies, songs and software without paying anything.

Law Enforcement: I dont think indian law enforcement are doing enough to tackle piracy. It is done so openly that it is scary. raiding a few shacks in Nehru Place is NOT enough. The laid back lazy and slacking attitude of the law enforcement is not helping at all. 
(*news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57499519-38/court-affirms-$675000-penalty-in-music-downloading-case/) 
One of my friend downloaded MW4 through torrent. a week later, he got a letter from ISP warning him the consequences of Online piracy. Along with the letter from software alliance who busted the illegal download. They had the WAN IP, local IP, Computer name, MAC, exact name of the torrent file, file size and duration of download. They told him to stop the activities immediately. If not, they will cancel his internet connection and prohibit him from getting a new connection for 6 months(here you need SSN to get internet connection) AND also initiate a lawsuit against him. 
Now he is totally piracy free and feels good about it.


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## Nipun (Feb 20, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> One of my friend downloaded MW4 through torrent. a week later, he got a letter from ISP warning him the consequences of Online piracy. Along with the letter from software alliance who busted the illegal download. They had the WAN IP, local IP, Computer name, MAC, exact name of the torrent file, file size and duration of download. They told him to stop the activities immediately. If not, they will cancel his internet connection and prohibit him from getting a new connection for 6 months(here you need SSN to get internet connection) AND also initiate a lawsuit against him.
> Now he is totally piracy free and feels good about it.



Where did this happen? Not India for sure..


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## tkin (Feb 20, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> I think it's a multi level problem. Lack of regard of Intellectual Property in the end user's mind being the most unfortunate one.
> 
> Unofficial PC owners: Obviously a major part of the problem. These machines have no warranty, no stability and no legit software. Their target: non tech savvy people they can easily bluff.
> 
> ...


For a mere $10 per month one could use a BT proxy, your friend is stupid, no offense.

PS: I don't support piracy either, I buy android apps, but one can't expect me to pay 10000/- for an OS, *PPP* wise the OS should be sold for 2000-3000/- max in India, not more, same with tools like photoshop, office etc, we do not live in a country where average wage of a software engineer is 50LPA, its 1/10th of that. I won't pay 2.5k for a game which is pocket change in USA, sell it for 500/- and I'll buy every one of them(GTA IV, LC all bought, gonna buy BF3)


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## club_pranay (Feb 20, 2013)

Nipun said:


> Where did this happen? Not India for sure..



It was in USA



tkin said:


> For a mere $10 per month one could use a BT proxy, your friend is stupid, no offense.
> 
> PS: I don't support piracy either, I buy android apps, but one can't expect me to pay 10000/- for an OS, *PPP* wise the OS should be sold for 2000-3000/- max in India, not more, same with tools like photoshop, office etc, we do not live in a country where average wage of a software engineer is 50LPA, its 1/10th of that. I won't pay 2.5k for a game which is pocket change in USA, sell it for 500/- and I'll buy every one of them(GTA IV, LC all bought, gonna buy BF3)



So, you're telling me it's ok for a guy to break into a car showroom and steal the latest BMW's and claim that "one can't expect me to pay 5000000 for a car", "they should be sold for 1000000 or less" "we do not live in a rich country"?? Do you think it's right? If someone is selling a product, you like it and you think it's overpriced, do you steal it?


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## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> [/COLOR]It was in USA
> 
> 
> 
> So, you're telling me it's ok for a guy to break into a car showroom and steal the latest BMW's and claim that "one can't expect me to pay 5000000 for a car", "they should be sold for 1000000 or less" "we do not live in a rich country"?? Do you think it's right? If someone is selling a product, you like it and you think it's overpriced, do you steal it?


Nope, but I can buy an alto if I like, suppose there was a monopoly, ever car sold is a BMW, and suppose you can't get to work or move without a car, what would you do?

MS has a monopoly in OS market, almost 99% of all pc softwares and games are made for it, hence we don't have a choice. I do not pirate apps, I don't have to, there are enough free alternatives to do the job, but what would I do without an OS?

Also an interesting fact, you know that India does not support patents for medicines, hence you can buy drugs at dirt cheap rate here, there has been some lobbying going on for months trying to pass a bill so all medicines will cost as same as US counterparts, will you support that bill?


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## Anorion (Feb 21, 2013)

^to drugs, the answer is no. but it is meaningless to compare the prices for every category of goods, the price depends on various factors including geographic distance from source, subsidies by companies, protectionist policies, or compulsory license policies (drugs, education, broadcast etc)
to some extent this may be an intellectual property rights problem, but only to some extent, but that is a smaller danger in comparison to what rampant piracy does to software. 
there is the very real problem of software becoming dirt cheap, and more importantly, the failure rate is too high, you need considerable marketing and visibility for software to be success at the current pricing schemes. it is a question of finding sponsors for art, where software is different is there is no other media for delivery. a movie is still screened in theatres, a song is still performed in stadiums. whatsapp is just an app, why do you expect it to be free? kickstarter is a great idea, so is microfinance, but the successful projects seem limited compared to the sheer number of failed projects. 
subscription and micro transactions are helping solving both these problems, 
there is a direct relation, who knows, maybe google would find it fit to subsidize nexus devices to US prices if people here invested in apps instead of just reviewing them  
then there is the question of quality. the argument is that there is free software alternatives for everything paid. there are free music released on jamendo, and free movies released all over the place... legit ones on YouTube as well. why not consume these as against pirate? obviously free content is no substitute for paid content


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## Sarath (Feb 21, 2013)

Spent an hour trying to add a CC to my Apple account. This reminds me of one more reason. Legit SW is just too much pain to buy. 

I hope they start selling apple app store gift cards in India and stop taking it for granted that we will be pirating them.


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## Anorion (Feb 21, 2013)

oh it's a hassle even then, only a fraction of the content and services are available even if you are willing to pay

in fact, with increasing reach and connectivity, the services are actually being withdrawn from the places they were initially available in, it is bizarre, as if increased connectivity, increased the piracy burden, pushed up the server, maintenance and support costs -  this can be as indirect as the number of signups for the software forum - and then subsequent withdrawals from entire markets. obviously software companies will focus on viable customer bases. 

software will be free when it is free to make


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## club_pranay (Feb 21, 2013)

Anorion said:


> software will be free when it is free to make


Well said!!



tkin said:


> MS has a monopoly in OS market, almost 99% of all pc softwares and games are made for it, hence we don't have a choice. I do not pirate apps, I don't have to, there are enough free alternatives to do the job, but what would I do without an OS?



According to Market Share Statistics for Internet Technologies, Windows(all editions) have 80.84% market share. w3counter says this number is 75.59%
There's no Monopoly. Even some newer laptops are shipping with free OS. 
As for your claim of windows being the only possible workable OS, let me introduce you to Linux. Try the latest 12.10 release of Ubuntu. You will be amazed how great opensource alternatives are. The open source software market is also thriving. Thing is, there are alternatives. It's up to you to accept them.


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## Sarath (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> [/COLOR]So, you're telling me it's ok for a guy to break into a car showroom and steal the latest BMW's and claim that "one can't expect me to pay 5000000 for a car", "they should be sold for 1000000 or less" "we do not live in a rich country"?? Do you think it's right? If someone is selling a product, you like it and you think it's overpriced, do you steal it?


What merit lies in comparing physical objects to virtual ones?



If you run a department store and have candies that I want. Now I steal them. Imagine that, you do not realise that I stole the candies, because, each time I steal a candy, I only get a copy, the original candy still stays in your shop. So you are not making a loss because of me stealing your candy. You are making a loss, because, I want the candy but I refuse to buy it. 

That is the problem with software piracy, people do not know you have to pay for the candy, they simply steal it because it leaves no trace and it is easy since you only notice the theft when you are looking.


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## club_pranay (Feb 21, 2013)

Sarath said:


> What merit lies in comparing physical objects to virtual ones?


..because there are real people behind it. They spend real time developing it. They have real bills to pay every month. 

You might wanna add to the candy shop scenario that the owner is selling only the copies in the store. There's only one original candy somewhere in the locker. The price you are paying is not of the candy itself.. but it's the cost of making that candy taste to good. So, what happens next? all the kids want the free candy. Very soon the owner is out of business and we'll be forced to eat the alternatives. 

A digital copy is still a commodity that has real commercial value.
Think of it this way.. If a digital copy has no value, there will be no computers as there will be no money to pay the software engineers. And we'll have a 6th page in the sunday newspaper titled Thinkdigit.


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## Hrishi (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> ..because there are real people behind it. They spend real time developing it. They have real bills to pay every month.
> 
> You might wanna add to the candy shop scenario that the owner is selling only the copies in the store. There's only one original candy somewhere in the locker. The price you are paying is not of the candy itself.. but it's the cost of making that candy taste to good. So, what happens next? all the kids want the free candy. Very soon the owner is out of business and we'll be forced to eat the alternatives.
> 
> ...



I just want to say it won't hurt you if the beggar steals your Software , since there is no way he can buy it legally.[I mean you are not going to get any profit , so in case even if he steals it , it won't harm you either ].

In your Candy shop scenario , consider a poor kid who can't afford your OverPriced or Expensive Candy. If he steals a copy from you , will it hurt you ?? If yes , then how .[Unless he distributes it to those who were going to buy it.]

However , For people who can afford and easily pay for your software , if they do the piracy it'll definitely hurt.


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## club_pranay (Feb 21, 2013)

interesting point. 

But, it's not one kid we are talking about here. Consider this.. 42% of ALL candies are stolen. 75% of all kids have stolen at least one candy.
and that has a significant impact.

About the paying capacity, I have seen people installing pirated $0.99 apps on their fully paid unlocked $650 iPhone. 
EDIT: Source: *portal.bsa.org/globalpiracy2010/downloads/study_pdf/2010_BSA_Piracy_Study-Standard.pdf


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## thetechfreak (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> interesting point.
> 
> But, it's not one kid we are talking about here. Consider this.. 42% of ALL candies are stolen. 75% of all kids have stolen at least one candy.
> and that has a significant impact.
> ...



What makes yoy think people wont pirate a $650 iPhone if they could?
And post relavant source about the candy thing.


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## Hrishi (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> interesting point.
> 
> But, it's not one kid we are talking about here. Consider this.. 42% of ALL candies are stolen. 75% of all kids have stolen at least one candy.
> and that has a significant impact.
> ...


Probably the Iphone too is a stolen one. 
But a major problem with play store , at least here in India is the payment method. [I don't have a CC of my own. That certainly means I can't buy apps from G.P.Store / I have to find alternatives ]


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## club_pranay (Feb 21, 2013)

thetechfreak said:


> And post relavant source about the candy thing.


Added

Wow, this place is indeed a fight club 
I feel like a lone warrior


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## Desmond (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, there should be a more accessible way of paying for apps if there is going to be any hope of reducing piracy. Even I could not pay for apps till I got my Credit Card. I buy apps ever since. This is perhaps why the Nexus has not come to India yet, people will buy the phone at its subsidized rate but there will hardly be any revenue from app purchases.

Also, piracy is rampant because of how easy it is to pirate software and media. Anyone with a computer can do this using a minimal set of tools and operating knowledge. Also, a software needs only be cracked once and everyone else can use it at no effort at all. But, sadly, no software can be made to be uncrackable, it can be made harder at most which is still just a minor inconvenience to crackers. If copy protection were more robust (not DRM-ized) people would learn to suck it up and buy apps.


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## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> Well said!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Linux is great, also taking in the fact, I can't do a thing with that, can't play games, most easy to use video converters do not work, can't get half the drivers I need(for starters, the Ubuntu that came pre installed in my dell 15R, the card reader, nor the bluetooth worked, also no power management, both the 7670m and HD4000 ran at the same time, result? 2hrs or less battery life doing nothing), it is a monopoly.



club_pranay said:


> interesting point.
> 
> But, it's not one kid we are talking about here. Consider this.. 42% of ALL candies are stolen. 75% of all kids have stolen at least one candy.
> and that has a significant impact.
> ...


Just pathetic, I'd bought over 20 android apps in one go and never pirated a single one on my L9, I can pay for that, just like how I bought 4 copies of win 8, 2 for my family, 2 for my cousins, now that they will be priced at 10000/- again, I won't buy a single copy, same with games, I bought GTA IV, LC, HAWX 1 and HAWX 2, MP3, Crysis 1 and Crysis 2, gonna buy BF3 soon, price it lower, I'll buy, all of them price it like that, not a single unit.

PS: I have a genuine copy of HDTune pro, I use it regularly, a offer was going on, I snagged it for $5, as I said, I buy stuff.


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## thetechfreak (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> Added
> 
> Wow, this place is indeed a fight club
> I feel like a lone warrior



Well I haven‘t pirated much. All my apps on iPod and my Android phone are genuine or get em when they were free for limited time.
Most Indians have CC problem. But still I dont think so many choclates are stolen.
[BRAG]
Anyways have a look at my Steam profile *steamcommunity.com/id/wuodland 

[/BRAG]


tkin said:


> Linux is great, also taking in the fact, I can't do a thing with that, can't play games, most easy to use video converters do not work, can't get half the drivers I need(for starters, the Ubuntu that came pre installed in my dell 15R, the card reader, nor the bluetooth worked, also no power management, both the 7670m and HD4000 ran at the same time, result? 2hrs or less battery life doing nothing), it is a monopoly.



Haven‘t heard of Steam for Ubuntu? Although AAA titles are missing but it has MANY great Indie titles and then also TF2!


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## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

thetechfreak said:


> Well I haven‘t pirated much. All my apps on iPod and my Android phone are genuine or get em when they were free for limited time.
> Most Indians have CC problem. But still I dont think so many choclates are stolen.
> [BRAG]
> Anyways have a look at my Steam profile Steam Community :: ID :: wuodland
> ...


Steam for ubuntu? Yeah I heard it, show me the games first.


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## Nipun (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> Steam for ubuntu? Yeah I heard it, show me the games first.



TF2 
You also get a limited edition hat for playing it on Ubuntu.


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## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

Nipun said:


> TF2
> You also get a limited edition hat for playing it on Ubuntu.


*i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/971/Sohardcore.jpg


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## theserpent (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> I think it's a multi level problem. Lack of regard of Intellectual Property in the end user's mind being the most unfortunate one.
> 
> Unofficial PC owners: Obviously a major part of the problem. These machines have no warranty, no stability and no legit software. Their target: non tech savvy people they can easily bluff.
> 
> ...



Woah! Imagine that happens here 95% of the internet users will be sued..


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## Anorion (Feb 21, 2013)

club_pranay said:


> EDIT: Source: *portal.bsa.org/globalpiracy2010/downloads/study_pdf/2010_BSA_Piracy_Study-Standard.pdf



wow that's good news, rate of piracy reducing worldwide... only anomaly is new zealand


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