# Upgrading from Canon A200



## SahilAr (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey Everyone,i need to upgrade my current Point and Shoot Cam,my budget is 20k.Please suggest me a good Cam,i know in that budget i cannot get a DSLR,i am ready to stretch my budget a lil bit up to 25k max..not more than 25k at all!Please suggest me a good cam..i am really pissed off with this canon a2200,it captures blurry images,images are captured with spots(yukk...looks very bad).The priority is that image quality should be superfine and should also capture 1080p Videos.I need another suggestion too.
1.As i am upgrading my current cam,should i upgrade it to point and shoot for upto 10k(for images)
2.Buy a camcorder(15k) for videos?
3.Combine the two and get a Cam or Camcorder(a single device out of two for both purposes..ie...image and video)


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## sujoyp (Oct 26, 2012)

There are too many choices at 25k budget

give us more details...what exactly u want to shoot...how much zoom u want?

u want big size cam or small size...

Choices are

Superzooms - SX50HS , FZ150
M4/3  - Nikon V1 , olympus EPM1
DSLR - D3100
Advance cams - Olympus xz1 , nikon p7100


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## aadi007 (Oct 27, 2012)

sujoyp said:


> There are too many choices at 25k budget
> 
> give us more details...what exactly u want to shoot...how much zoom u want?
> 
> ...



Sujoy,
FZ150 is not available anywhere...and FZ200 is 30K . Hence out of budget
Also, Nikon P7100 is old..now we have the P7700 and good news is it is available at 22-23K at ebay.

And of course, there is option of Olympus EPM1. Nikon V1 is not good in comparison to E PM1.

My pick would be P7700 or Olympus E PM1 (if ok with less zoom). Of course, one can buy a zoom lens later

I have another question - 
I was reading various reviews on the internet.
And though a mirrorless camera like E PM1 with a bigger sensor gives much better image quality at high ISO, it seems compact cams like P7700 or XZ-1 having a brighter lens is able to shoot at a much less ISO under similar conditions and hence give equivalent or better picture quality. Of course, it is assuming the 14-42 kit lens on the E PM1 and it seems the kit lens is not that good. 
This has put a doubt on my mind as I was almost certain to buy the E PM1.
What's your take on that?


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## sujoyp (Oct 27, 2012)

@aadi it really depends on what u r thinking....
a P7700 or xz1 have fixed lens soo they have provided a bit bigger aperture one ...but ultimately the sensor is small soo the pic quality does not improve too much.

An EPM1 gives u flexibility to change lenses,buy new lens...u can get prime lens....bigger sensor also provide higher ISO..
Soo in EPM1 u can go as high as ISO 3200 easily ...for advance users EPM1 can be used with adapters and u can enjoy lots of old nice lenses which r cheap now.

if u dont like kit lens dont get it...just spend 3 times more money and get a better lens  

Aadi u have to learn photography slowly step by step...first learn how to use kit lens...the right setting at right time then maybe u have the right to say that kit lens is bad  I donno yet y kit lens is bad


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## aadi007 (Oct 27, 2012)

sujoyp said:


> Aadi u have to learn photography slowly step by step...first learn how to use kit lens...the right setting at right time then maybe u have the right to say that kit lens is bad  I donno yet y kit lens is bad



I have been using manual settings for quite a few years..all my cameras till date have been P&S but all of them had full PASM controls.so I am not new to it totally. I dont claim myself to be an expert though but I am not a novice either 
What I have written here is based on discussions on various forums ... I have not used the E PM1 with the kit lens or any other lens.
But what people on various forums claim that fixed lens cameras like XZ-1 or G15 with brighter fixed lens are able to give better image quality in low light compared to E PM1 with kit lens which has a bigger sensor - I never knew that and was surprising to me and that's why I shared it here and asked opinion from experts like yourself. I always thought that that E PM1 with a much bigger sensor will definitely give better image quality in low light even with kit lens when compared to advance P&S cameras which doesn't seem to b true.

I haven't used and hence I don't have any opinion..don't know what right u r talking about. So, sharing feedback and discussion from the internet needs to acquire some right by using all the cameras.

If you have used the cameras mentioned above, please do share your opinion. 
Otherwise, dare I say u don't have right to comment on the above point.


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## marvelousprashant (Oct 27, 2012)

Possible with G15... not with XZ1.... different league of cameras...


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## sujoyp (Oct 27, 2012)

oops did I use a bad work 'right' ...sorry  

I just meant that if u have option to change lenses u can get better lenses too...The sensor is definitely good in m4/3 

A fixed lens may have limited zoom and limited sharpness


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## nac (Oct 27, 2012)

Aadi, Even the widest aperture f/1.8 in XZ1 is slightly smaller than EPM1's f/3.5 of it's kit lens. It's a theory I read in few forums... So technically it could give better low performance than XZ1 or G15 (XZ1's sensor is slightly bigger yet you will see G15's low light images better). So it's not just sensor alone, but it's one of the main factor...

For comparison G12/XZ1/EPM1


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## SahilAr (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks for the reply guys and @sujyop:i want the zoom to be atleast 8x and it would be good if the camera is of Sony Brand?The size of camera doesn't matters,i want the camera for casual photography,like using it on get together events,college trip and normal day to day photography.


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## nac (Oct 27, 2012)

^ Then it almost strikes out advanced compacts, interchangeable lens camera...

SX240 would be fine and good.


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## aadi007 (Oct 27, 2012)

Why not Nikon P7700...it has 7.1x zoom up to 200mm
And it beats all other cameras in the price range in all aspects other than the zoom.

I myself can grab it soon


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## nac (Oct 27, 2012)

^ When adding filters (8x), 7.1x ain't showing...


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## aadi007 (Oct 28, 2012)

LOL @nac..
@Sahil - Since u are not crazy about having a big zoom and more megapixels and want a good camera with great image quality, lots of manual controls and without the hassles of changing lenses, P7700 is a very good choice. 

Another off-topic question/observation - 
I have this habit of comparing Indian and US prices...and surprisingly P7700 is almost priced similar to US while other cameras like Canon G15 etc. are much higher than the US prices..I wonder what is the reason. Just check out the prices at amazon...

Example- Nion P7700, Canon G15 and Panasonic FZ200 all are priced at around $500.
Whereas here in India, Nikon P7700 is available at 22-23K, FZ200 at 30-32K, and G15 at 32-35K.

Why this discrepancy? Personally, I think all these 3 cameras should be priced similarly.
And if you are getting Nikon P7700 at 22-23K, its a steal.


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

yes nikon P7700 at 22-23k is a real deal....all other including LX7,S110 etc r just too costly

but still at that price y not get best quality with a m4/3 like epm1 and y stuck to same 1/7" sensor with no lens change option ....look wise P7700 is awesome but its just not economical enough


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## aadi007 (Oct 28, 2012)

@sujoy: OP doesn't want the hassle of additional lenses 
Now, let us see if u can convince him to go for a micro 4/3?


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## nac (Oct 28, 2012)

Sahil,
25k; superfine IQ; Full HD video; >8x zoom; preferably Sony.

HX20V should fit...


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

@aadi OP's requirement are


> Please suggest me a good cam..i am really pissed off with this canon a2200,it captures blurry images,images are captured with spots(yukk...looks very bad).The priority is that image quality should be superfine and should also capture 1080p Videos



no way a P&S cam can beat a m4/3 or a dslr in image quality and ability to crop the image .....even the image captured with spots seems to be high ISO result ...that too is much better in m4/3 and dslrs 

adding more lenses is a flexibility and not a problem..come out of those 3x and 7x zoom numbers ....I can crop a pic from my D3100 kit lens and create as good pic as a P&S can take at 10x (conditions apply)


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## nac (Oct 28, 2012)

sujoyp said:


> come out of those 3x and 7x zoom numbers ....I can crop a pic from my D3100 kit lens and create as good pic as a P&S can take at 10x (conditions apply)



Nice challenge...  I would like to see 640x480 or less crop (no resizing) of images taken at 18mm/55mm/200mm both in well lit and low light situations.


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

hmmm I dont have night shots right now...will post what i have

BTW nac u too post a similar pic to compare...how will we compare it else??

at 18mm with kit lens

*lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9YC3OlLBpPg/UIzZriOA1tI/AAAAAAAAIC4/RE0DPHdwH_A/s800/18mm.jpg

cropped from
*lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ESQvohyl0EY/UIzZ0YWerYI/AAAAAAAAIDQ/jn4_PEjmtwo/s640/DSC_5610.JPG

and at 200mm
*lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FQKnUP3cd88/UIzZshXTDBI/AAAAAAAAIDA/zWfzYraruOs/s800/at%2520200mm.jpg

cropped from
*lh4.googleusercontent.com/--YwGJi9aUy4/UIzZz8h0K_I/AAAAAAAAIDM/5aBQPRv-EU4/s640/DSC_5548.JPG

no editing is done...we can do much more by editing the pics

Now beat this one taken with my 55mm macro lens 

*lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6giS2JBE7Sk/UIzc5r8PuRI/AAAAAAAAIDg/N7Bb-I2Bau4/s800/macro55mm.jpg

*lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C8nJ7DFj9cw/UIzc8xJucgI/AAAAAAAAIDo/ilb8ReY1GYk/s640/DSC_8734.JPG


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## aadi007 (Oct 28, 2012)

Interesting debate..I am very much interested.
Always had this question in mind but never got clear answers.

@sujoy - For that much crop to match a P&S with 10x zoom, won't we need very high megapixels in the sensor? May be 16 or even 20 MP ?
Can it match something like a Panasonic FZ200 with F2.8 aperture even at 600 mm?

By the way, forgot to say ..gr8 pics 
Would be more useful if all the camera settings are displayed as well with each pic


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

panasonic FZ200 have a focal range of 25-600 in 35mm terms ...actually it have 5.2x crop factor 

u see even a DSLR with 18-55 and a 55-200 with 1.5 crop factor becomes 24-300mm with DSLR quality ....now nac told me to crop a 4000x3000 pic to 640x480 thats 1/8th part ....I can crop it less to retain pic quality and no one will even notice

megapixel is definitely needed for printing big...12mp is enough to crop a lot...but dont crop it more than 1/3 to print

pic info - 
1. 22mm 1/320 , f5.6 ISO800
2. 200mm 1/250 , f10 ISO800
3. 55mm , 1/100s f4 ISO200 with flash diffused


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## nac (Oct 28, 2012)

sujoyp said:


> BTW nac u too post a similar pic to compare...how will we compare it else??


Yeah, that's a fair deal... 



sujoyp said:


> Now beat this one taken with my 55mm macro lens


  



aadi007 said:


> Interesting debate..I am very much interested.



No... It's neither a debate nor I am challenging... Just out of curiosity I asked him... 

All shot at base ISO and wide open aperture... For more details, you can check EXIF

5mm (28mm) Crop
*imageshack.us/a/img707/6364/img1206crop.jpg

Original
*imageshack.us/a/img600/3534/img1206zx.jpg

60mm (336mm)Crop
*imageshack.us/a/img20/3544/img2834crop.jpg

Original
*imageshack.us/a/img823/5059/img2834dn.jpg

Macro-Crop
*imageshack.us/a/img197/4513/img2350crop.jpg

Original
*imageshack.us/a/img827/3835/img2350kd.jpg


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

those chiks have came really well ...even after crop looking good..

soo we can go by old saying again...if u r ok with the hassle of changing lenses, carrying saperate bag, spending lot of money on photography, taking photography seriously as a hobbie then u should buy m4/3 or DSLR at 25k ....else u can just go for any advance P&S cams ...which may not have pic quality or soo much control...but give u nice shots ..my choice of advance P&S is olympus XZ1


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## aadi007 (Oct 28, 2012)

Yep Sujoy, u summarized it well..I agree.

This is what I was thinking - 
Say, I buy a m 4/3 like EPM1 with kit lens instead of an advanced P&S and use it as my go-anywhere cam. With the kit lens, it is not too big at least for me. So, it is not a problem. The only issue is the zoom. I won't need big zoom normally but in some cases, if I need, can I crop and still match the image quality of an advanced P&S say, at 300 mm equivalent?
Though I am interested in photography, I can't imagine myself carrying additional lenses and stuff like that. That's what is holding me back from buying a m4/3.
If the answer to the above question is yes, I will go ahead and buy a m4/3 like EPM1. Else, I will go with advanced P&S.
In terms of manual controls, I dont see much difference.

By the way, my choice for advanced P&S is Nikon P7700. It is a much newer camera than XZ-1 with bigger zoom, nice form factor, lots of external buttons/dials for manual settings, higher burst mode etc. and it costs almost similar to XZ-1. The only competitor to P7700 is the G15 which costs a whole lot more than P7700 (in India) and has less zoom.

Another observation - I have compared pictures from bridge cameras like FZ150, P510, Canon SX40 etc with advanced cameras like XZ-1,P7700 and there is a significant difference in image quality.


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## sujoyp (Oct 28, 2012)

a p&s at 300mm is not much....just 12x or 15x max ....soo i think u may be satisfied with one more lens a zoom lens...and thats all...the pic quality and high iso is awesome in m4/3 or dslr
P7700 have nice design and quality but still xz1 have better pic quality...

EPM1 with twin lens combo for 30k was awesome deal


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## aadi007 (Oct 28, 2012)

Sujoy - the deal was and still is 27K at ebay.
However, I am not getting confidence to buy from that seller though his rating his good.
I asked him a few questions but he din't reply.

I am waiting for some reputed online retailer to offer a good deal like - flipkart, zoomin,infibeam etc


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## sujoyp (Oct 29, 2012)

27k thats awesome


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