# AMD Llano (desktop) discussion



## ico (Jun 30, 2011)

AMD A8-3850 Review: Llano Rocks Entry-Level Desktops : Meet AMDâ€™s Desktop Llano-Based Lineup

So, basically you get an Athlon II X4 640 + a very good IGP in one package. Fair deal.

Core i3-2105 might be 10% faster CPU, but Intel HD 3000 is roughly 50% of AMD HD 6550D. i3-2100 has HD 2000. 1600Mhz/1866Mhz DDR3 RAM suggested as the GPU will perform better.


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## vickybat (Jun 30, 2011)

*Amd LLano (Fusion) Desktop discussion*

Amd has finally launched llano parts for desktop ( lynx platform). They come with 100w and 65w tdp variants.

The 100w does not have turbocore feature whereas the 65w models has it. The cpu part has 4mb l2 cache i.e 1mb dedicated per core, 32nm fab and the gpu *(vliw5)* comes in 400 and 320 shader avatars.

At launch , there are 4 sku's :



*Model *
| 
*GPU*
 |
* TDP*
 | 
*Cores*
 |
* Base CPU Clock*
 |
* Max. Turbo*
 | 
*L2 Cache*
 | 
*Shaders *
|
* Gpu clock*
 | 
*Turbo Core*
*A8 3850*
| 
*HD 6550D*
 | 
*100W*
 |
* 4*
 |
*2.9 Ghz*
 | 
*NA*
 |
* 4Mb*
|
* 400*
 | 
*600Mhz *
| 
*No*
*A8 3800*
| 
*HD 6550D*
 | 
*65W*
 | 
*4*
 | 
*2.4Ghz*
 | 
*2.7Ghz*
|
*4Mb*
| 
*400*
| 
*600Mhz*
| 
*Yes*
*A6 3650*
 |
* HD 6530D*
|
*100W*
 |
* 4 *
|
*2.6 Ghz*
 | 
*NA*
 | 
*4Mb*
| 
*320*
 | 
*443Mhz*
 | 
*No*
*A6 3600*
 | 
*HD 6530D*
| 
*65W*
 | 
*4*
 | 
* 2.1Ghz*
 | 
*2.4Ghz*
|
*4Mb*
|
* 320*
|
* 443Mhz*
| 
*Yes*

Check the *review* by tomshardware.

Llano is strictly for entry level users and will actually find its place ( highly desirable) in the 20-25k systems as a complete build.

Adding a discrete gpu *higher than* 6670 (rebranded 5670) renders the 6550D useless and dual graphics isn't enabled. So its better off to invest in a different platform than llano for people going for a good mid range or higher discrete card lets say a 6750 or higher.

Overclocking the llano is also a big no no because the bclk is now integrated and there are no unlocked multipliers. So when bclk is raised, other bus speeds ( pci-e bus, northbridge)  also increase leading to severe limitation. Overclocking it to 3.4ghz lead to problems using ssd drives. So its not an overclocking platform unless amd releases some black edition parts in which the bclk will be untouched.

But overall, the llano platform makes a very good entry level build for he masses that is capable of doing a lot that previous builds couldn't do.

Check the anandtech review* here*.

*ASRock A75 Extreme6 Review*


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## ashis_lakra (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*

This LLano platform is sure going to hit budget conscious consumers as they can still take a taste of games at lower res without buying a discrete graphic card.

It has become a good platform for HTPC too.. nice work AMD =)


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## comp@ddict (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*

BEST review so far

65W A8-3800 v/s Core i3 2105/2100

And not the 100W A8-3850.

True Fusion: AMD A8-3800 APU Review - X-bit labs


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## ico (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Amd LLano (Fusion) Desktop discussion*



vickybat said:


> Overclocking it to 3.4ghz lead to problems using ssd drives.


That has to be some sort of motherboard issue which should be resolved through a firmware update.


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## baccilus (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*

I really want to know about the performance of the IGP+HD6670. Which discreet graphic card would that compare to?


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## comp@ddict (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*



> IGP+HD6670. Which discreet graphic card would that compare to?



on and off, sometimes worse than discrete HD6670 itself, sometimes as good as HD6750(maybe).


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## kamal_saran (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*

amd and no overclocking i don't believe  , i think a8 3850 is gonna be my favourite for my new 25k pc. . .


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## comp@ddict (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*



> amd and no overclocking i don't believe  , i think a8 3850 is gonna be my favourite for my new 25k pc. . .



The A8-3850 2.9GHz and the A8-3800 2.4GHz both overclock on stock cooler to 3.5GHz. Sadly, nobody tried GPU overclocking, only higher RAM speeds.


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## vickybat (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*



comp@ddict said:


> on and off, sometimes worse than discrete HD6670 itself, sometimes as good as HD6750(maybe).



Nope its nowhere near 6750 now but in future it may scale well in further driver updates.

But i must say that the xbit review was pretty much open and in short was excellent. Thanks for the link.


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## Cilus (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*

Thanks all for the updates. A long waited product has come now. The best thing I like about it is working alongside with a discrete GPU. Although currently DirectX 10 and 11 enabled Titles can use it and it is nowhere near to its driver stability, in near future I guess those issues are gonna be solved and then think of it...just plugging a HD 6670, you can basically get performance closer to a HD 6850.

Comp@ddict, +1 rep for the link


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## ico (Jul 1, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*



baccilus said:


> I really want to know about the performance of the IGP+HD6670. Which discreet graphic card would that compare to?


That will only work for DirectX 10/11 games. It needs driver optimizations.

You are better off using discrete graphic card in the IGP+HD 6670 case.


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## topgear (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks for the links ico and comp@ddict 

BTW, any idea about price ??


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## comp@ddict (Jul 1, 2011)

*Re: AMD Fusion (desktop) discussion*



vickybat said:


> Nope its nowhere near 6750 now but in future it may scale well in further driver updates.
> 
> But i must say that the xbit review was pretty much open and in short was excellent. Thanks for the link.



Yep the internal drivers are doing so well, I expect by the end of the year Fusion drivers to have matured, and by the time TRINITY launches, we can expect a HELL of a Product!



Cilus said:


> Thanks all for the updates. A long waited product has come now. The best thing I like about it is working alongside with a discrete GPU. Although currently DirectX 10 and 11 enabled Titles can use it and it is nowhere near to its driver stability, in near future I guess those issues are gonna be solved and then think of it...just plugging a HD 6670, you can basically get performance closer to a HD 6850.
> 
> Comp@ddict, +1 rep for the link



THanks



ico said:


> That will only work for DirectX 10/11 games. It needs driver optimizations.
> 
> You are better off using discrete graphic card in the IGP+HD 6670 case.



Yeah it works only for DX10/11 titles , don't know why. Something to do with the API?



topgear said:


> Thanks for the links ico and comp@ddict
> 
> BTW, any idea about price ??



135$ for A8-3850, 125$ for the best motherboard, we are looking at 260$.

Maybe 14k


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## kamal_saran (Jul 1, 2011)

hey guys check this review , it's awesome, and when these chips will retail in india . AMD A8-3850 Llano APU Review - TechSpot Reviews


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## Skud (Jul 1, 2011)

Waiting for some mini-ITX magic. 

Finally an IGP good enough for 720p gaming, fair deal for a family PC.


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## vaibhav23 (Jul 1, 2011)

The prices of A75 mobo's from Asus:
Asus Reveals India Pricing for AMD F1A75 Series Motherboards


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## topgear (Jul 2, 2011)

kamal_saran said:


> hey guys check this review , it's awesome, and *when these chips will retail in india* . AMD A8-3850 Llano APU Review - TechSpot Reviews



this is also my question - but we might see some APUs and mobos on this month or next month 

every mobo manufacturer is ready with their A75 line up and a couple of A75 mobos is already ready to grab on newegg but where's the APU - A75 mobo buyers might have to find it on wonderland


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## rajan1311 (Jul 2, 2011)

am i the only one who loves the OCing on the chips? 700MHz with no multi change, not bad for a chip like this....or I am too used to using the multi... 

Even IGP performance gain was pretty nice...Hope the 3850 comes for around 7k...with boards starting off at 2.5-3k...



Cilus said:


> just plugging a HD 6670, you can basically get performance closer to a HD 6850.
> 
> Comp@ddict, +1 rep for the link



i saw a few benchies on anadtech, still needs a lot of work, gains were minimal.... any other site did the hybrid cfire test?


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## comp@ddict (Jul 2, 2011)

> i saw a few benchies on anadtech, still needs a lot of work, gains were minimal.... any other site did the hybrid cfire test?



the Hybrid CFx gains can be made with mature drivers, so that 'm not worried about.

But Llano's CPU and GPU, are terrible weak. Going by the specifications itself, Llano's GPU should have done 3-4x better than Intel's HD3000, but that's not the case at all.


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## Skud (Jul 2, 2011)

comp@ddict said:


> the Hybrid CFx gains can be made with mature drivers, so that 'm not worried about.
> 
> But Llano's CPU and GPU, are terrible weak. Going by the specifications itself, *Llano's GPU should have done 3-4x better than Intel's HD3000, but that's not the case at all.*




Depends on which settings you are testing. Most of the sites have tested without AA and AF and medium settings. Its more or less 2x faster at these settings, let someone test it at the highest playable settings for the Llano and how HD3000 perform at those settings. 3-4x performance gain seems a possibility.


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## vickybat (Jul 2, 2011)

^^ Llano's gpu isn't powerful enough to run even slightly graphically demanding games at highest settings.

So in a nutshell, its twice the performance of hd 3000 & not 2-4x faster.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 2, 2011)

Skud said:


> Depends on which settings you are testing. Most of the sites have tested without AA and AF and medium settings. Its more or less 2x faster at these settings, let someone test it at the highest playable settings for the Llano and how HD3000 perform at those settings. 3-4x performance gain seems a possibility.



And at that settings, neither Intel's IGP nor Llano would deliver any playable frame rate.

Makes the whole thing pointless.


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## topgear (Jul 3, 2011)

ok liano APU's are available at smc 

AMD A8-3850 @ 7,000.00
AMD A6-3650 @ 5,850.00

also mobos are available - posted by jas on hw price check thread :


> Gigabyte GA-A75-D3H @ 7.1k
> Gigabyte GA-A75M-D2H @ 6.6k
> Gigabyte GA-A75M-S2V @ 5.95k



but I would also like to see a mobo around 4k anyway


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## kamal_saran (Jul 3, 2011)

prices are high, is these are final prices or we can see a drop in next month,  otherwise i have to get a phenom x4 and 880g mobo . .


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## Skud (Jul 3, 2011)

comp@ddict said:


> And at that settings, neither Intel's IGP nor Llano would deliver any playable frame rate.
> 
> Makes the whole thing pointless.




Buddy I have stated *Highest Playable Settings*, like the way HardOCP tests. I was looking the results at Anandtech and there seems quite a bit headroom to increase the settings in a few games, so testing and comparing at higher settings would give a better picture IMO.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 3, 2011)

Okay okay!

But I still think the BEST DEAL would be :

A8-3800 @ 6k (hopefully)
A55 based mobo @ 4k

That would make it worth 10k, because currently it isn't worth much more over that. It would make sense for a person to buy a GPU for any gaming needs, and if gaming isn't priority at all, Sandy Bridge Duals perform better and cost lesser.


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## coderunknown (Jul 3, 2011)

launch price is good. after a month or two price should settle down like 6k for the A8 & 4.5k for the A6.


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## Skud (Jul 3, 2011)

Problem with currently released mobos is that most of them are either full ATX or have dual PCI-x16 slots, so prices are on the higher side. MicroATX mobo with single PCI-x16 slot should be of lesser price.

Anyway, more than the price of APU, the prices of the mobos are a concern. Hope they will come down within a couple of months.


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## kamal_saran (Jul 3, 2011)

well, then i think i have to wait till august to see prices. Or i will go with phenom build or i5 if possible


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## coderunknown (Jul 4, 2011)

Skud said:


> Problem with currently released mobos is that most of them are either full ATX or have dual PCI-x16 slots, so prices are on the higher side. MicroATX mobo with single PCI-x16 slot should be of lesser price.
> 
> Anyway, more than the price of APU, the prices of the mobos are a concern. Hope they will come down within a couple of months.



thats been the problem since the introduction of the 8-series. motherboard (even basic one) cost above 4.5k


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## topgear (Jul 4, 2011)

^^ 8 series mobos can be bought for as low as ~3.5k such as MSI 880GM-E35/E41 

The prices of of Liano based mobo and apus are on higher side is because they are newly launched product right now - after a couple of months their prices will come down for sure


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## coderunknown (Jul 4, 2011)

yes now it has came down but when they were first introduced the price were really high. 
i feel the same for Llano. AMD have to make sure motherboard price is also low at launch, something like the H61s.


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## topgear (Jul 4, 2011)

Intel considered H61 as a low end product for SB cpu's and that's why the mobos based on it has low price tag but there's some H61 mobos which prices are more than 5k.

AMD is not considering Liano as a low end product - they are considering it as a whole new platform ( though it based on Phenom II ) A75 and A8-3850 is the Top of the line Liano product and that's why their prices are a bit steep right now and until Bulldozer comes out AMD will hold this position as many HTPC makers will use Liano


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## comp@ddict (Jul 4, 2011)

I'm still waiting for the laptops man, where the hell are they. THats the one I'll be buying!

The Desktop parts are already available, but no sign of the laptops!!!!!!!!


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## ico (Jul 5, 2011)

*Gigabyte GA-A755M-S2V* and AMD A8-3850 are available for 6k and 7k respectively @ SMCinternational.in

Wait for a month, the prices will settle down.


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## coderunknown (Jul 5, 2011)

topgear said:


> AMD is not considering Liano as a low end product - they are considering it as a whole new platform ( though it based on Phenom II ) A75 and A8-3850 is the Top of the line Liano product and that's why their prices are a bit steep right now and until Bulldozer comes out AMD will hold this position as many HTPC makers will use Liano



true. but they should at least develop some chipset for the lowend market but then again for AMD Llano isn't lowend.



ico said:


> *Gigabyte GA-A755M-S2V* ---> 6k



price is steep but it is feature packed. so expected. maybe in a month time we'll see some stripped down board for ~4k.


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## topgear (Jul 6, 2011)

found another review 
A75-UD4H Review + A3850 Review (Physical Analysis, Overclocking, Benchies, Video) - techPowerUp! Forums


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## comp@ddict (Jul 7, 2011)

AMD APU Undervolting: Reduce Power Consumption by 32%!

Keep in mind, this is whole system power, IGP only.



> AMD Fusion A8-3850, 2.9GHz, Socket FM1
> Thermaltake K8 Silent Boost, Socket 754
> GigaByte GA-A75-UD2H, Socket FM1
> 4GB Kingston HyperX DDR3-2000
> ...



*Core i3 2100 - 65W TDP*
Idle - 59W
CPU Max - 184W
Full Load - 209W


*AMD A8 3850*
Idle - 55.6W
Full Load - 209W

*After Undervolt,*
CPU Max - 123W
Full Load - 141.8W

AMD APU Undervolting: Reduce Power Consumption by 32%! - Bright Side Of News*

What you notice is a HUGE DROP in power consumption, makes me wonder WHY AMD didn't choose higher CPU and GPU clocks, or just drop the TDP to 65W instead!


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## coderunknown (Jul 7, 2011)

comp@ddict said:


> What you notice is a HUGE DROP in power consumption, makes me wonder WHY AMD didn't choose higher CPU and GPU clocks, or just drop the TDP to 65W instead!



absolutely. ok release A8 for 95W but release A6 for 65W. they did the same with Phenom II X4 & Athlon II X4. both are avl at 95W.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 7, 2011)

^^ No, as we saw right now, the A8 is perfectly capable of 65W TDP operation.

Those who want to overclock can just raise the voltage!!

I think hitting low TDPs would make better image to public.

Also, the 100W parts I feel should have something like:

- 3.2GHz core clock
- 750-850Mhz GPU clock


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## coderunknown (Jul 7, 2011)

comp@ddict said:


> ^^ No, as we saw right now, the A8 is perfectly capable of 65W TDP operation.



that i know. cause AMD will ultimately release a tweaked A8 within the 65W TDP (down from 100W  ) though it'll be clocked quite a bit low & have turbo. 

maybe it is related to stability under full load. as even last gen proccy are using default voltage of 1.425V whereas some of us using the same proccy have undervolted it all the way to 1.15-1.25V.



comp@ddict said:


> I think hitting low TDPs would make better image to public.



maybe not. cause public just wants higher clock & more cores (& cooler PCs). most won't care about the TDP of the proccy they are getting, except the ones shopping for HTPC.

but PC manufacturers may find it interesting. they can now use slimmer cabinets with less airflow.


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## topgear (Jul 8, 2011)

PC manufacturers will wait for Lower TDP version of A8 lineup or they will use A6 instead.

No way they will underclock a APU from stock speed when they can actually overclock the apu for more performance boost - have anyone seen a under clocked cpu/apu config from any manufacturer anyway ?


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## mitraark (Jul 11, 2011)

The innovation is nice but the price of Mobo Combo should be atleast below Rs 10k for people to seriously consider it, as well as form factor Mini ITX. People not looking to buy GPU will hardly be thinking about spending more , and people willing to spend more will know better to get a 6570/6670 at same price instead.


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## topgear (Jul 12, 2011)

^^ nice point there - the APU+Mobo combo price should be 10k or less than 10k but some Liano desktop buyers might be interested to buy a gpu like HD6670 to take the advanbtage of dual gfx but it's needs some serious driver optimization anyway.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 12, 2011)

> but it's needs some serious driver optimization anyway.



It's just 1 month, by end of this year it should be better. 

I think this Llano is a test, for the REAL FUSION which comes out next year, Bulldozer ENHANCED + VL4WD based DX11 GPU + Sideport(please!)


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## Skud (Jul 12, 2011)

Trinity.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 12, 2011)

Yep, it's gonna be awesome, the real Fusion we are waiting for. This was just a teaser!

Damn they will be using 32nm, we'll have to wait for Trinity's successor in 2013 for AMD to go 22nm (hopefully).


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## Skud (Jul 12, 2011)

I think AMD is having some surprises in store for us. With Llano and BD and 990fx they are just warming up. Gosh, we do need competition.


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## baccilus (Jul 12, 2011)

If I have to build a general purpose Desktop, which Llano processor and Mother board should I get? I have been asked to build an office PC and I would definitely like to buy Llano.


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## topgear (Jul 13, 2011)

^^ I suggest you to take a look at here 
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/1448618-post1114.html



comp@ddict said:


> It's just 1 month, by end of this year it should be better.
> 
> I think this Llano is a test, for the REAL FUSION which comes out next year, Bulldozer ENHANCED + VL4WD based DX11 GPU + Sideport(please!)



you are right about it but again much more waiting ........... involved


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## baccilus (Jul 13, 2011)

Thanks Topgear


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## topgear (Jul 14, 2011)

^^ you're welcome bro


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## ico (Aug 18, 2011)

*Re: Amd LLano (Fusion) Desktop discussion*



ico said:


> That has to be some sort of motherboard issue which should be resolved through a firmware update.


*Overclocking : Six A75-Based Motherboards For AMDâ€™s A8 And A6 APUs*

Gigabyte have fixed their issues perhaps.



vickybat said:


> 6670 (rebranded 5670)


HD 6670 is not rebranded HD 5670.


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## Skud (Nov 3, 2011)

BUMP 

APUs in Server:-

AMD, Penguin Computing Deploy First Server APUs With Curious Results - HotHardware


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## Cilus (Nov 3, 2011)

Nice link. The approch could be highly benificious if the workload can be dynamically distributed among the CPU and GPU depending upon their nature. As Super Computer design takes the advantage of Parallel processing, the APU can be utilized to do it by using its GPU.

I am unable to give you rep as I need to give rep to some more persons before I can give you again.


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## vickybat (Nov 3, 2011)

^^ In that case, let me give him a rep.

Btw nice find *skud*


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## Skud (Nov 3, 2011)

Rep or no rep, thanks to both of you, Cilus & Vicky.


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## coderunknown (Nov 4, 2011)

Skud said:


> BUMP
> 
> APUs in Server:-
> 
> AMD, Penguin Computing Deploy First Server APUs With Curious Results - HotHardware



thanks for the link. giving it a read now


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## Skud (Dec 5, 2011)

Much earlier than expected:-

AMD A8-3870K and A6-3670K are available for pre-order


*fudzilla.com/processors/item/25096-two-new-llanos-up-for-preorder




> So, we are looking at quad-core parts with 4MB of L2, clocked at 2.7GHz and 3GHz. As you’ve probably guessed by now, the “K” suffix means they have unlocked multipliers. The TDP also stayed the same, 100W. Like their predecessors, the A8-3870K and A6-3670K don’t feature Turbo, which is reserved for 65W parts.




*www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/images/L_A6-3670_and_A8-3870_prices.jpg


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Dec 8, 2011)

Intel: AMD is Still a "Serious Competitor" ... on Price


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## Skud (Feb 2, 2012)

AMD's season of mad overclocking continues:-

AMD A8-3870K Cracks 6 GHz with All Cores Enabled | techPowerUp


*www.techpowerup.com/img/12-02-02/13b.jpg


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Feb 2, 2012)

^yeah, he won Christmas challenge
Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


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