# Vista vs Mojave



## iMav (Jul 24, 2008)

This is something that shows how ignorant people are and how FUD (spread by people like many on this forum) has an impact on normal people.



> Spurred by an e-mail from someone deep in the marketing ranks, Microsoft last week traveled to San Francisco, rounding up Windows XP users who had negative impressions of Vista. The subjects were put on video, asked about their Vista impressions, and then shown a "new" operating system, code-named Mojave. More than 90 percent gave positive feedback on what they saw. Then they were told that "Mojave" was actually Windows Vista.
> 
> "Oh wow," said one user, eliciting exactly the exclamation that Microsoft had hoped to garner when it first released the operating system more than 18 months ago. Instead, the operating system got mixed reviews and criticisms for its lack of compatibility and other headaches.


*Full Article*


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## jal_desai (Jul 24, 2008)

really ... ppl are just like a herd of sheep... ek bola to uske peeche peeche bolte chale jaate hain.... tricks like these are required to make them realise. I use vista since almost a year and i have no problems with.... Just because ppl dont know how to operate it, they curse it.
Nice info there.


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## Faun (Jul 24, 2008)

nubs  lolz
see this video too 
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

atleast we aren't dumb. yeah provided some are


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## x3060 (Jul 25, 2008)

they are still trying desperately to promote i guess...
whatever it is , it was a funny read.


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## Pat (Jul 25, 2008)

iMav said:


> This is something that shows how ignorant people are and how FUD (spread by people like many on this forum) has an impact on normal people.



Noobs and ignorants are everywhere. So are people who spread FUD. This affects not only Windows but all platforms.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Jul 25, 2008)

T159 said:


> *www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE



Oh man, this is friggin hillarious, I can't believe the one's interviewed are so frigging dumb!! Oh MY GOOD LORD!!


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## casanova (Jul 25, 2008)

Great move Microsoft


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## gxsaurav (Jul 25, 2008)

lolz...can't believe. Vista's FUD is nothing real, just due to Lingeeks & Macboys.


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## dheeraj_kumar (Jul 25, 2008)

Who is Fidel Castro?

a... singer?

lol!!!


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## Most Wanted (Jul 25, 2008)

^lol... who is harry pottor?


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## pillainp (Jul 25, 2008)

I think this just goes to show how much people were deceived by the FUD generated by the non-Windows community, perhaps (I think mostly due to) their insecurity.

As far as I have seen, most of the so-called problems (notably UAC) that have been pointed to in Vista exist in some form or other in most other OS's.

One thing I have noticed is that when anyone points out a fault in one of those other OS's, its adherents immediately divert the discussion, either by flaming, or by pointing to some non-issue in some version of Windows.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 25, 2008)

lolz... but whatever these guys say, I seriously doubt MS can make Vista run on hardware Arch+KDEmod runs on


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## praka123 (Jul 25, 2008)

it is like asking the difference between *a dead horse* and *another dead horse* .so what can you expect as answer?  infinite no. of replies!


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 25, 2008)

praka123 said:


> it is like asking the difference between *a dead horse* and *another dead horse* .so what can you expect as answer?  infinite no. of replies!


its not a dead horse.... it just eats a lot


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## praka123 (Jul 25, 2008)

^It even makes its |users desparate.(psst...*DRM*!)


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## CadCrazy (Jul 25, 2008)

Please don't crap this thread


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## iMav (Jul 25, 2008)

Now that people have started liking Mojave ... sorry, Vista, the FUDders are back trying to do what they do best.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Jul 25, 2008)

jal_desai said:


> Just because ppl dont know how to operate it, they curse it.



Exactly, but you forgot that your statement is more accurate if you say this from a linux point of view

Just because a bunch of windows addicts find it hard to use linux because of their incompetency and addiction, they crap it and claim Vista to be more better and secure! oh phluueassseeeeeee, those who say so should just get a life!!

I don't understand for how long Microsoft and it's fanboy's are going to keep trying to convince everyone that Vista is better than XP!! What MS fanboys need to understand is that people are not adopting vista coz they have already tried it and found it useless including me. Microsoft will try all they can till windows7 is released to keep proving that it is worth when the world has been intelligent enough to move past the marketing crap.

I laugh at the ignorance of fanboys who still want to keep proving that Vista is better than something when the majority of the world has realized otherwise.


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## praka123 (Jul 25, 2008)

when and where did the word FUD originated?Ever thought ?Here is something to think upon.


> Fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) is a "tactic" of rhetoric used in sales, marketing, public relations[1][2], and illiberal democracies. FUD is generally a strategic attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative (and vague) information. An individual firm, for example, might use FUD to invite unfavorable opinions and speculation about a competitor's product; to increase the general estimation of switching costs among current customers; or to maintain leverage over a current business partner who could potentially become a rival.
> 
> The term originated to describe disinformation tactics in the computer hardware industry and has since been used more broadly.[3] FUD is a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
> 
> ...


*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
..and this is ON TOPIC. reg vi$ta vs mojave or whatever ,it is M$ playing cat and rat game with its |users


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## iMav (Jul 25, 2008)

@pillianp: +1


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## Faun (Jul 25, 2008)

praka123 said:


> when and where did the word FUD originated?


me too was thinking about this


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## Indyan (Jul 25, 2008)

Vista looks cool. It seriously does. Its only when you install it and use it for sometime do you realise that it not worth the upgrade due to performance issues.
Even XP used more resource than Win 2k when it was released. But, its benefits were complelling enough to warrant an upgrade. I just dont feel that its the case with Vista.

Also what hurt Vista was the ridiculous amount of bugs when it was initially released (they have been largely fixed with sp1 though). That garnered a lot of negative publicity.


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## iMav (Jul 25, 2008)

What were the compelling reasons in XP?


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## amitava82 (Jul 25, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> *I R Horse*
> *....and craps..*


Why not keep your craps in your pocket and play with your Arch?

As I told in other thread, the whole thing is like teleshops (or any other advertisements). Stuffs shown in teleshops looks cool until you get one for yourself.


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## Faun (Jul 25, 2008)

^^teleshopping is a joke 
hahaha...especially dubbed version


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 25, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> Why not keep your craps in your pocket and play with your Arch?
> 
> As I told in other thread, the whole thing is like teleshops (or any other advertisements). Stuffs shown in teleshops looks cool until you get one for yourself.


sure... lets see... I delete the post, let it stay in jokes section, just like the thing I am bashing...

btw, I am on XP atm, since I forgot how to edit fstab 



T159 said:


> ^^teleshopping is a joke
> hahaha...especially dubbed version


+10000000000


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## Indyan (Jul 25, 2008)

iMav said:


> What were the compelling reasons in XP?



Compared to Win 2k?
I found Windows XP was the most stable OS at that time (esp compared to ME and 98).
Windows XP actually performed better on a higher end config. Run a Vista on a Core 2 Due 2.6 ghz and 3gb ram and Xp at the same config. Xp would give better config.


Also what helped XP was the fact that Win 2k didnt actually catch on all that well. A lot of people were still using Win 98 Se.


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## axxo (Jul 25, 2008)

Indyan said:


> Compared to Win 2k?
> I found Windows XP was the most stable OS at that time (esp compared to ME and 98).
> Windows XP actually performed better on a higher end config. Run a Vista on a Core 2 Due 2.6 ghz and 3gb ram and Xp at the same config. Xp would give better config.


Xp and 2000 pro were built on same kernel arch..there is hardly any difference in their performance or stability. 2000/2001 digit magz review on xp suggests the same like the comment "go for xp if you have money to spend else stick to 2000 pro since no real adv that xp has got to offer"


Indyan said:


> Also what helped XP was the fact that Win 2k didnt actually catch on all that well. A lot of people were still using Win 98 Se.


This is the only reason made XP a success.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 25, 2008)

Indyan said:


> Also what helped XP was the fact that Win 2k didnt actually catch on all that well. A lot of people were still using Win 98 Se.


bang on target 8)
ppl could just switch to a two generations ahead cool looking new technology much more high features enabled OS from the stale old win 98 they had...


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## Kl@w-24 (Jul 25, 2008)

iMav said:


> What were the compelling reasons in XP?



Apart from the performance, stability & security aspects, XP also looked WAY cooler than any other OS in the market at that time!


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 25, 2008)

Kl@w-24 said:


> Apart from the performance, stability & security aspects, XP also looked WAY cooler than any other OS in the market at that time!


anyone wants screenshots of linux in 2001 ? 
it looked _anything_ but attractive


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## Ecko (Jul 25, 2008)

But still wasn't user friendly as of 2day 
I tried it & still feel that 2day its far better 
atleast they've now created a button for everything 
I'm using Suse with WinXp


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## pillainp (Jul 26, 2008)

OK, so I borrowed a live Ubuntu distro, 8.04.

It will not recognise my 9600GT, so no 3D.

It will not recognise any USB devices, so no flash drives.

It will not recognise my modem, so all my hopes for the great helpline on the net are shot to hell.

And any change I need to make, it directs me to some man page that is so long I can take it instead of a sleeping pill.

By contrast Vista pre SP1:
9600GT recognised and widescreen resolution automatically applied.
Modem and internet connection detected and all it asked for was the username and password. It connected by itself, and activated by itself.

OH yeah, it recognises all my optical devices off the bat, and is now asking me which one I want as my default writer. With Ubuntu, it was the OS saying that my writer did not exist, because the writer had 8MB cache, but Ubuntu could only see 2. If I said 2, the writer would not work. If I said 8, Ubuntu would not see the writer.

Now the wner of the system also wanted Ubuntu, along with Vista. Guess what he now has, by his own choice. He tells me he wants no part of Ubuntu, and is now productively running Vista.

Point is, I can install Vista and be productive in about 1 hour, whereas with Linux, 1 hour later, I am most likely juking around trying to get my internet to work.


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## CadCrazy (Jul 26, 2008)

pillainp said:


> OK, so I borrowed a live Ubuntu distro, 8.04.
> 
> It will not recognise my 9600GT, so no 3D.
> 
> ...



Ha Ha All you Pro MS Morons(who says only Linux guys Spread FUD) See This Anti Linux FUDder


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## FilledVoid (Jul 26, 2008)

> OK, so I borrowed a live Ubuntu distro, 8.04.
> 
> It will not recognise my 9600GT, so no 3D.
> 
> ...



You crack me up. Heres a link especially for you  

I could go on proving each one is probably wrong or maybe helped fixing it but technically I don't see why you are worth the effort.


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## amitava82 (Jul 26, 2008)

Its a fact that one has to waste couple of hours to setup and be productive with a Linux system unless its a pre-configured system from Dell, System76 or others. And if the person is a newbie then someone save him. I'd love to see you prove otherwise..


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## FilledVoid (Jul 26, 2008)

> Its a fact that one has to waste couple of hours to setup and be productive with a Linux system unless its a pre-configured system from Dell, System76 or others. And if the person is a newbie then someone save him. I'd love to see you prove otherwise..


Use a Live CD . Use a Distro with the tonnes of packages which comes with it.


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## amitava82 (Jul 26, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> Use a Live CD .


come on Live CD is not a productive solution.. 
Anyway, why are we discussing Linux here? Its not even relevant.


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## FilledVoid (Jul 26, 2008)

Edited the post above. I was just replying to the other post. But definitely it is off-topic so I'm not going into there.


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## Vishal Gupta (Jul 26, 2008)

*www.mojaveexperiment.com/


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## sameer.pur (Jul 28, 2008)

Since it already turned out to Windows VS. Linux..

I would also like to add my view..
We always brag for eye-candy & more visual in games. (At least some of us. Not me, I only look at gameplay.)
We are even ready to spend thousands for it.
For this reason we also prove that IGP is crap.
*But when an OS is giving some eye-candy. We are sueing against it. or say FUDing it. WHY..??*
I will not say Vista is perfect, infact no OS is. I do agree with *pillainp*.
For most people simplicity is most important. XP provided it better.
For now, people are used to work with XP. They can't seem to think to switch.
Ask a P-III 500 MHz., 64 MB RAM owner who used Win98 a year and half ago..what it was like to switch..!! (I am one..)
So it's the thinking we need to change.

I just want to say.. Vista is not a crap. It's a bit hard to catch on using it.
But XP too was in early days. and about Linux.. I would say until it becomes more h/w compatible, it's not gonna be my primary OS.

And, it was my view. Since every person can have their own opinion.
Thanks for reading this.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 28, 2008)

Linux still has a lots more feature to provide. This is the problem with lingeeks. if linux isn't compatible with someone's hardware then it isn't the fault of Linux, it is the fault of user. however if a hardware is not vista compatible then it is some how the fault of MS & not the hardware manufacturer


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## sameer.pur (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Linux still has a lots more feature to provide. This is the problem with lingeeks. if linux isn't compatible with someone's hardware then it isn't the fault of Linux, it is the fault of user. however if a hardware is not vista compatible then it is some how the fault of MS & not the hardware manufacturer



I think there is a difference between *Vista Compatible* & *Vista Capable*.

Compatibility means having support for it. i.e. it can just run/recognise that.
While Capable means properly running it.

Take a example of 945 Chipset, it can just run Vista but can't run Aero.
While 965 Chipset can fully run Aero on it.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 28, 2008)

Intel 945 chipset came at the same time frame as Vista & with it's GMA 950 it was fully vista compatible. Onboard graphics r always bad for anything but to run the OS only, while DX 9 cards were available since 2005. only basic computers were not compatible. 

Mojave project proved that the bad vista press was nothing but FUD by lingeeks & Macboys who have never used it


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## amitava82 (Jul 28, 2008)

So are you saying that all the bad names about vista is spread by Linux users and therefore MS is having bad time with it's superior OS? I didn't know Linux user base is so powerful that  they can swing a market  Good one!


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## FilledVoid (Jul 28, 2008)

> Since it already turned out to Windows VS. Linux..
> 
> I would also like to add my view..
> We always brag for eye-candy & more visual in games. (At least some of us. Not me, I only look at gameplay.)
> ...


Personally I don't think Vista is "crap".  Not to mention the topic isn't about Linux so I'll choose to refrain.  


> Mojave project proved that the bad vista press was nothing but FUD by lingeeks & Macboys who have never used it


Such a pity that one of the best products in Microsofts showcase as you put it turned out to lose its credibility by a couple of "lingeeks" and "macboys". What does the above form like 3% of the market?


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## chandru.in (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Linux still has a lots more feature to provide. This is the problem with lingeeks. if linux isn't compatible with someone's hardware then it isn't the fault of Linux, it is the fault of user. however if a hardware is not vista compatible then it is some how the fault of MS & not the hardware manufacturer


Simple dude, if a h/w works with Ubuntu 7.10 and does not work with 8.04 then it is fault of Ubuntu.  In the same way, if a h/w works with XP but not with Vista (esp those having a Vista capable label on them ), it is the fault of Microsoft.

If a h/w never worked with Linux at all as the manufacturer did not give Linux drivers, how can it be a fault of Linux??  

The OS market monopolist is having to go on streets promoting Vista with a lie called Mojave.  Seems indicative of something to me.


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## lywyre (Jul 28, 2008)

If Vista would have performed as good as XP on my machine (102 Ggc, 2.66GHz Pentium D, 1GB 667 MHz DDR2 RAM, Onboard ATI XPRESS RADEON 200), then I sure would have upgraded to Vista. I did try Vista on my machine and (un)fortunately, XP was faster and better. I don't go for looks. I am not going to look at my desktop 24x7, but it would be my browser, office suite etc that I am going to be involved with. Also games. Where Vista took the bulk of the memory, XP saved all those for my games and apps. So common sense prevailed.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Linux still has a lots more feature to provide. This is the problem with lingeeks. if linux isn't compatible with someone's hardware then it isn't the fault of Linux, it is the fault of user. however if a hardware is not vista compatible then it is some how the fault of MS & not the hardware manufacturer


OMFG.. you've become a typical MS employee...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 28, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> Simple dude, if a h/w works with Ubuntu 7.10 and does not work with 8.04 then it is fault of Ubuntu.  In the same way, if a h/w works with XP but not with Vista (esp those having a Vista capable label on them ), it is the fault of Microsoft.



It is the fault of hardware manufacturer that there are no drivers for Windows Vista for there hardware. In case of Linux it is Linux's fault cos they restrict drivers to be open source only & closed source drivers do not always work with Linux. Driver manufacturer has the choice to release OSS or closed source drivers in case of Windows, but in case of Linux they must OSS it even if they don't want to. Since many hardware manufacturers don't want to release the source of there drivers, they cannot be blamed for not providing linux drivers. Windows gives them choice of going either open source or closed source, Linux doesn't.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> It is the fault of hardware manufacturer that there are no drivers for Windows Vista for there hardware. In case of Linux it is Linux's fault cos they restrict drivers to be open source only & closed source drivers do not always work with Linux. Driver manufacturer has the choice to release OSS or closed source drivers in case of Windows, but in case of Linux they must OSS it even if they don't want to.


LOL.. what a hypocrite...

And you are grossly misinformed regarding the drivers being open...

Go.. take a break.. you need rest


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## FilledVoid (Jul 28, 2008)

> Driver manufacturer has the choice to release OSS or closed source drivers in case of Windows, but in case of Linux they must OSS it even if they don't want to


You did Install Ubuntu once right? Does "Restricted Drivers" sound familiar?


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## RCuber (Jul 28, 2008)

Some mentioned Hardware Drivers!! 
here is my situation .. I bought a so called "Run's on Vista" USB Tuner .. it also won the gold award by digit.. say what.. MCE didnt detect the tuner.. I Could use the tuner with the bundled app and other DVR's 

Same Tuner didnt work in Ubuntu too no drivers.. Mehul and IRD knows abt this . 
So what should I do .. ditch the Rs. 4400 tuner and get a new tuner which works with Linux & Vista or just use the OS + app which is supported by my Tuner..  
I have been using Vista ( genuine )  from past 1 year with fully updated system.. I have to say Vista a big disappointment for me.  Vista is not for me ..


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

Guys.. don't you think we are going off-topic?  Bringing Linux in this thread.. I mean.

[Post not meant for Charan as its perfectly on topic ]


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 28, 2008)

pillainp said:


> OK, so I borrowed a live Ubuntu distro, 8.04.
> 
> It will not recognise my 9600GT, so no 3D.
> 
> ...


I think the problem is that you just don't _know_ how to use Linux, and expect that linux is 100% the same as windows and all things should happen the same way. Each one of your problems can be answered with one word - its not a problem at all in the first place.

Take a look at me, a typical windows user who installed linux for the thrill of it to give myself an early birthday gift a few weeks before I turned 16. Now, over an year later, I can't have enough of it, and I am able to do things much better in linux THAN in windows. I can't claim I am a linux expert, no that takes years. But I am at a level when I know _where_ to look to solve any random problem that might arise. 


sameer.pur said:


> and about Linux.. I would say until it becomes more h/w compatible, it's not gonna be my primary OS.


State your hardware so that I can be of help to you. 


gx_saurav said:


> Linux still has a lots more feature to provide. This is the problem with lingeeks. if linux isn't compatible with someone's hardware then it isn't the fault of Linux, it is the fault of user. however if a hardware is not vista compatible then it is some how the fault of MS & not the hardware manufacturer


Lots of features to provide ? What is that awssome thing in vista that I can't live without ? 
A Linux Distro like Arch or Debian is MUCH MUCH more feature rich and complete as an OS compared to windows. Besides, the main problem with windows is that its simply not as easy to use as linux. And its damn slow. Install something like JRE to know what I mean. After downloading I can install it within 4 seconds on arch while on windows xp it takes a few minutes. And if a hardware supports open standards, it supports linux too. But the real issue is that many hardware vendors don't care about supporting an OS, often because of secret licence agreements with companies like Microsoft.


amitava82 said:


> So are you saying that all the bad names about vista is spread by Linux users and therefore MS is having bad time with it's superior OS? I didn't know Linux user base is so powerful that  they can swing a market  Good one!


+1. Linux is hardly wide spread. Its used, but not by n00bs who are as common in this world as dirt in people's shoes.


infra_red_dude said:


> OMFG.. you've become a typical MS employee...


 I thought he _already_ is one...


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## Faun (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> It is the fault of hardware manufacturer that there are no drivers for Windows Vista for there hardware. In case of Linux it is Linux's fault cos they restrict drivers to be open source only & closed source drivers do not always work with Linux. Driver manufacturer has the choice to release OSS or closed source drivers in case of Windows, but in case of Linux they must OSS it even if they don't want to. Since many hardware manufacturers don't want to release the source of there drivers, they cannot be blamed for not providing linux drivers. Windows gives them choice of going either open source or closed source, Linux doesn't.


uber religious hypocrite

reminds me of Tuco in TGTBATU 

Do you even know why open source philosophy exists


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## k6153r (Jul 28, 2008)

Microsoft must understand that, most people are waiting for Windows 7 (or 8).


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## iMav (Jul 28, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> A Linux Distro like Arch or Debian is MUCH MUCH more feature rich and complete as an OS compared to windows. Besides, the main problem with windows is that its simply not as easy to use as linux. And its damn slow.


  Thank you for that dose of laughter. I needed that. Thank you. I am still ->


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## amitava82 (Jul 28, 2008)

@MetalheadGautham: please stop the joke that Arch/Linux is easier than Windows. It's getting old already.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> ...and expect that linux is 100% the same as windows and all things should happen the same way.


+1. This is very true.



MetalheadGautham said:


> A Linux Distro like Arch or Debian is MUCH MUCH more feature rich and complete as an OS compared to windows. Besides, the main problem with windows is that its simply not as easy to use as linux.


ZOMG... Arch is easier than Windows... Dude.. what do you smoke???? 



MetalheadGautham said:


> ....but not by n00bs who are as common in this world as dirt in people's shoes.


When you post something in a public forum, post sensibly and use better analogies. 



MetalheadGautham said:


> I thought he _already_ is one...


Now he's showing that he is one 



iMav said:


> Thank you for that dose of laughter. I needed that. Thank you. I am still ->


I'm with you.. lol...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 28, 2008)

Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista? Those people who were at the Mojave Demo r proof that Vista's bad press is nothing but FUD by Anti-MS people & vista no longer is in the same state as it was on launch. people havn't used vista still they blame it like Sandisk CEO was blaming for there low performing SSDs


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## CadCrazy (Jul 28, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> A Linux Distro like Arch or Debian is MUCH MUCH more feature rich and complete as an OS compared to windows. Besides, the main problem with windows is that its simply not as easy to use as linux. And its damn slow. Install something like JRE to know what I mean. After downloading I can install it within 4 seconds on arch while on windows xp it takes a few minutes. And if a hardware supports open standards, it supports linux too. But the real issue is that many hardware vendors don't care about supporting an OS, often because of secret licence agreements with companies like Microsoft.



Lol Control Kaar Yaar. Sare log Linux use karna shuru kar denge. windows ko bhi jeene do


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista?


I'd say NO. My opinion is that its all the drivers (as Charan said). My uncle replaced his office desktop with a laptop which came with no OS. I tried to transfer the Vista with license from his desktop to laptop, thats about 8-9 months ago. Vista wouldn't work on the laptop due to driver issues, inspite of downloading and using every version of driver that existed on this planet for his various devices (Yes, I tried Vista certified, not-official and every version that you cud think of including XP version). Added to it, Vista + AutoCAD 2k8 SP1 was like unusable on 2GB of RAM inspite of GFX drivers working properly.  

I thot the hardware must be faulty. Just to test, I installed Ubuntu. It installed great. Everything worked out of the box. Apart from the binary closed source nvidia driver, I didn't haf to install anything else (of corz I didn't install all the codecs and *bling bling* stuff since it was only a test install, otherwise I couldn't tested with Mint). The system was ready for general purpose use in 15 minutes.

I was now sure that its a problem with Vista and drivers and not his hardware. Since he's an architect, he needed AutoCAD on Windows NATiVELY. So I went ahead and installed XP. His system was ready for general use in exactly 15 minutes. He's a happy man now. XP + AutoCAD 2k8 SP1 is as snappy as anybody can imagine.

Vista was a nightmare on his laptop. XP was a blessing in disguise. But sadly he had to pay again for XP license (and I got a free Vista license  )

So in the end, it all boils down to how your hardware is supported by the OS with or without official/unofficial drivers.



gx_saurav said:


> Those people who were at the Mojave Demo r proof that Vista's bad press is nothing but FUD by Anti-MS people


Frankly dude, those people should be shot down. People who believe others, people who are ignorant about things which they shouldn't be about etc. Was Mojave made to look like Win 3.1 or something? Don't people haf eyes? I'd say people who live their lives based on others' opinion haf no right to live. I'm not generalizing this, but this is what I think.



gx_saurav said:


> ... & vista no longer is in the same state as it was on launch.


While SP1 fixes a lot of bugs, there is still a lot desired to be fixed. Ask Vishal


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## MetalheadGautham (Jul 28, 2008)

iMav said:


> Thank you for that dose of laughter. I needed that. Thank you. I am still ->





amitava82 said:


> @MetalheadGautham: please stop the joke that Arch/Linux is easier than Windows. It's getting old already.


I swear its much easier for me.


infra_red_dude said:


> +1. This is very true.
> 
> 
> ZOMG... Arch is easier than Windows... Dude.. what do you smoke????
> ...


1....

2. I smoke air. I am damn serious. Arch IS really easy to use. Hell, all the configuration is placed in just 2-4 files like pacman.conf, rc.conf, menu.lst and fstab. And nano is so easy to use, and everything is commented so nicely for me to see understand and uncomment. Use it yourself and you will see light.

3. sorry...

4. 

5. 


gx_saurav said:


> Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista?


Its better to say that for YOU its easier to use vista than linux. Everyone is NOT the same. Whats easy for YOU needn't be easy for ME and vice versa. *All this ease of use talk is relative.** But since linux has different distros for different people, on an overall prespective, linux IS easier to use than windows.*

For example, I personally find ARCH TO BE THE EASIEST TO USE OS ever designed, while my friend thinks UBUNTU HARDY HERON GNOME EDITION is much much easier to use and configure than his vista ultimate. (no, he is not a linux fanboy. he is an apple fanboy and he just _happens_ to have stumbled across ubuntu once and now he is a apple fanboy and ubuntu user, though I am going to help him get rid of ubuntu and install OpenSuSE 11.)


----------



## iMav (Jul 28, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> *But since linux has different distros for different people*


And this is where it starts messing itself up.


----------



## Faun (Jul 28, 2008)

iMav said:


> And this is where it starts messing itself up.


Ubuntu ftw if u r unsure 

else see the distrowatch recommendation, what people generally use
*distrowatch.com/


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

iMav said:


> And this is where it starts messing itself up.


... which is very true


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 28, 2008)

iMav said:


> And this is where it starts messing itself up.


Nope. Its clueless users who mess things up. Thats why several linux forums exist to give proper choosing advice.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 28, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> Nope. Its clueless users who mess things up. Thats why several linux forums exist to give proper choosing advice.


Its basically the first time users who are clueless and apparently it is that section of people who are being discussed now.


----------



## amitava82 (Jul 28, 2008)

Yeah right spend a day on a internet to figure out how to install an OS, another day to find drivers, and finally another day to solve other problems. Sure you don't want me to point to the Arch thread..


> installed
> booted
> text mode
> damn
> where do I find the install guide and beginners guide ?


----------



## Faun (Jul 28, 2008)

^^hahaha 
he was too desperate to install


----------



## Siddharth Maheshwari (Jul 28, 2008)

most of them must not be knowing abt windows 7


----------



## narangz (Jul 28, 2008)

Siddharth Maheshwari said:


> most of them must not be knowing abt windows 7



Who knows anything in detail about Windows 7?


----------



## kumarmohit (Jul 28, 2008)

LOL The Empire Strikes Back!


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

> Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista? Those people who were at the Mojave Demo r proof that Vista's bad press is nothing but FUD by Anti-MS people & vista no longer is in the same state as it was on launch. people havn't used vista still they blame it like Sandisk CEO was blaming for there low performing SSDs


Definitely I agree with that . Linux isn't exactly as user friendly as Vista , maybe it will be in the future (before anyone comes riding in on their horse to curse me out, you know and I know what i said is probably right) .  However blaming how Vista was perceived by people on folks who use Linux and Macintosh is plain stupid. If there is any so called "FUD" created about the OS its by the same people who were on Windows itself. As a matter of fact your statement proves what I meant.



> vista no longer is in the same state as it was on launch.


Next time tell MS not to come out with a half-assed product like they did with Vista. Pffft then blame Linux and Macs when their own customers start ranting about it.


----------



## CadCrazy (Jul 29, 2008)

^^ Pehli baar tumne koe dhang ki baat ki hai


----------



## preshit.net (Jul 29, 2008)

Shrek, your comments are awesome. Much respect.

------------

Give a dying man some sugar water and call it his medicine, and he'll die peacefully in his last days. Everything is in the head of a man... he believes what he is made to believe.


----------



## amitava82 (Jul 29, 2008)

lol.. he does not understand hindi.. hahahha


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

> ^^ Pehli baar tumne koe dhang ki baat ki hai


I try my best to be correct most of the time. But I'm always open to people correctign me if I'm wrong. 



> Shrek, your comments are awesome. Much respect.


The feeling is mutual . 



> lol.. he does not understand hindi.. hahahha


Yes I'm ashamed to say I don't know Hindi of course .


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> I try my best to be correct most of the time. But I'm always open to people *correctign* me if I'm wrong.


correcting. There you go.


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

> correcting. There you go.


You might want to capitalize your first letters of a sentence while you are at it too. Not to mention one word sentences are so not correct.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> You might want to capitalize your first letters of a sentence while you are at it too. Not to mention one word sentences are so not correct.


----------



## Faun (Jul 29, 2008)

placebo effect


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 29, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> Yeah right spend a day on a internet to figure out how to install an OS, another day to find drivers, and finally another day to solve other problems. Sure you don't want me to point to the Arch thread..


you really _are_ going nuts. did I explain you explictly what was the reason behind that ? I never managed to read the guide fully. so I needed it. now, if I had a hard copy of the same guide, things would have been different. Vista has one. Arch too has one, which becomes accessable only if my printer is still working.

How do you think a first time user of windows vista who has used no other OS before can configure his OS to connect to the internet on boot ? Well, I had a friend in the exact same situation, and I must say a certain linux distro named ubuntu was much easier to use. Now that is one end of the story. But take a look at the other end: lets take the word easy in the context where it means simple, elegent and neat. In this situation, for a user who has had some amount of pre-exposure to power computing, tends to find it easier to work in arch (me for example). In my case, first I was a total clueless n00b, and hence I had some initial difficulties. Now I am not a n00b so I am in a much better position.

Lets take the situation a guy faces when he needs to solve physical calculations using calculus (sorry got no better example). You have two guys, one who knows calculus and one who does not. For the guy who knows calculus its naturally easier to use calculus, since calculus is simply too elegent and simple once you get to know it. But the other guy thinks calculus is from mars and ends up screwing everything up if he tries to solve using calculus and starts hating it.

_note: I was in the shoes of both these guys at different periods of time_


infra_red_dude said:


> Its basically the first time users who are clueless and apparently it is that section of people who are being discussed now.


Really ?
Then replace every instance of Arch with ubuntu and all should be fine


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

Why oh Why are we going into forbidden lands again. 



> you really are going nuts. did I explain you explictly what was the reason behind that ? I never managed to read the guide fully. so I needed it. now, if I had a hard copy of the same guide, things would have been different. Vista has one. Arch too has one, which becomes accessable only if my printer is still working.


What hes trying to convey is , that you *had* read the guide at some point to get through the install. Don't even say you could have managed to get Arch without reading it. The chances of getting Vista installed on your computer without reading a guide or FAQ is exponentially higher.


> How do you think a first time user of windows vista who has used no other OS before can configure his OS to connect to the internet on boot


The same way a person who hasn't used Arch or any other Distro connect to the Internet. If a new person to Ubuntu could configure an Internet connection I can guarantee that a person on Windows could have done the same. 


> In this situation, for a user who has had some amount of pre-exposure to power computing, tends to find it easier to work in arch (me for example). In my case, first I was a total clueless n00b, and hence I had some initial difficulties. Now I am not a n00b so I am in a much better position.


Anyone who says Arch is easy to Install in comparison to Windows Vista or Ubuntu is smoking something really good. 


> But take a look at the other end: lets take the word easy in the context where it means simple, elegent and neat.


How exactly does the word "easy" take the context "simple, elegent and neat"  ??? 



> Lets take the situation a guy faces when he needs to solve physical calculations using calculus (sorry got no better example). You have two guys, one who knows calculus and one who does not. For the guy who knows calculus its naturally easier to use calculus, since calculus is simply too elegent and simple once you get to know it. But the other guy thinks calculus is from mars and ends up screwing everything up if he tries to solve using calculus and starts hating it.



You don't ask Calculus to Literature graduates? Do you see where I'm going with this? Not everyone is a Charles Eps. Not everyone is a l337 power user as yourself sir. Now FFS please stop saying that Arch is Easy cause because it isn't. 

To make it very clear let me post a picture to clear what I'm talking about. 

*img261.imageshack.us/img261/2653/motivator7828186tv0sz3.th.jpg

And before you laugh Amitava is way better a computer user than Ill probably ever be and not to mention I got kicked about 5 times till I found out how to change my nick in IRSSI.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 29, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> Why oh Why are we going into forbidden lands again.
> 
> 
> What hes trying to convey is , that you *had* read the guide at some point to get through the install. Don't even say you could have managed to get Arch without reading it. The chances of getting Vista installed on your computer without reading a guide or FAQ is exponentially higher.
> ...


1. yup we are venturing into forbidden lands...

2. Yes I read the guide. So do most newbie people to do a task in windows. They consult the *help center* application.

3. Did I forget to mention that he installed ubuntu _because_ he didn't know how to connect to the net in winxp ? Finally, I felt pity for his dad, whose laptop was the machine where ubuntu was installed, as it was confusing him, and I taught him to configure net in XP and get rid of ubuntu from the microscopic HDD.

4. When the person refering to it is an experienced user.

5. Good Point.

6. nice pic. but I think the guide is well written enough for most of us. atleast, I didn't have any issues... not because I am what you call a _1337 power user_ (which I am not). I am just a simple user who wants an OS for listening to music, surfing the net, office, email, entertainment and doing some miscelleneous tasks.

7. nope I am not laughing. there is nothing terribly funny about it. its perfectly normal for any guy to have as a first reaction.


----------



## Faun (Jul 29, 2008)

^^that pic is sarcastic 

Well there are some distros which are noob friendly and ready to bow chica bow bow within few minutes 

But yeah one thing thats great with arch is its installation speed. I am amazed


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 29, 2008)

T159 said:


> ^^that pic is sarcastic
> 
> Well there are some distros which are noob friendly and ready to bow chica bow bow within few minutes
> 
> But yeah one thing thats great with arch is its installation speed. I am amazed


in simple words, the pic proves my original statement: there is a distro for almost everybody. there is something that each person can be confortable with.

PS: yeah, the installation speed... its insane dude


----------



## amitava82 (Jul 29, 2008)

> I never managed to *read the guide* fully. so I needed it. now, if I had a hard copy of the same guide, things would have been different. Vista has one.


No, an average Joe won't be needing a guide to install Vista and it does NOT come with any guide book. Even a self proclaimed Linux pro like you too need a guide to install Arch and you say its easy. 


> Arch too has one, which becomes accessible only if my printer is still working.


Still trying to figure out how to CONFIGURE a printer in Linux?



> How do you think a first time user of windows vista who has used no other OS before can configure his OS to connect to the Internet on boot ?


I don't know about LAN but for wireless; actually you don't need to configure anything on Vista to go online... lets not talk about Arch or Ubuntu. You can visit my blog for more info.



> But take a look at the other end: lets take the word easy in the context where it means *simple*, *elegant *and *neat*.


Probably you should use a Mac to find the definitions of those words.



> In this situation, for a user who has had some amount of pre-exposure to power computing, tends to find it easier to work in arch (me for example).


There you go:


> installed
> booted
> text mode
> damn
> where do I find the install guide and beginners guide ?





> In my case, first I was a total clueless n00b, and hence I had some initial difficulties. Now I am not a n00b so I am in a much better position.


Only if everyone in this word were as patient as you.


> Lets take the situation a guy faces when he needs to solve physical calculations using calculus (sorry got no better example). You have two guys, one who knows calculus and one who does not. For the guy who knows calculus its naturally easier to use calculus, since calculus is simply too elegant and simple once you get to know it. But the other guy thinks calculus is from mars and ends up screwing everything up if he tries to solve using calculus and starts hating it.


Whats your point?


> Then replace every instance of Arch with ubuntu and all should be fine


Now are you implying that ubuntu is as easy as Vista?



> in simple words, the pic proves my original statement: there is a distro for almost everybody. there is something that each person can be confortable with.


It proves nothing. I was like WTF coz I had no clue that this thing does not come with any GUI. It took me less than 15 min to configure my wireless and get on to IRSSI. And not to forget horrible 30KBps speed, thanks to opensource Intel wireless drivers that comes with kernel > 2.6.24.



> But yeah one thing thats great with arch is its installation speed. I am amazed


Yes coz it comes with almost nothing.


----------



## Faun (Jul 29, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> It proves nothing. I was like WTF coz I had no clue that this thing does not come with any GUI.


didnt u read before downloading *CORE*. You expect 300MB to come up as graphical wonder 
Even Vista takes a DVD to spin, include mac too



> Yes coz it comes with almost nothing.


What installation has to with it ?
Try installing firefox in each os.

And you forgot the tagline of Arch Linux. Make your box from scratch.


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

> And you forgot the tagline of Arch Linux. Make your box from scratch.


Actually its "keep it Simple" 

And what does ANY of this have to do with Mojave or Vista .


----------



## Faun (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah its keep it simple, but i liked the approach from scratch.

Why should i need every bloatware bundled before ?

And yeah the driver support can be bad and frustrate a normal user. But lets hope things get better with time


----------



## amitava82 (Jul 29, 2008)

> didnt u read before downloading *CORE*. You expect 300MB to come up as graphical wonder


Even 50MB DLS comes with GUI. And No, I did not read anything before installation. I usually trash an OS which requires a manual for installation.


----------



## The Outsider (Jul 29, 2008)

i find it kinda amazing, how people brag about an os being superior when they themselves know its crippled and b1tch about it on their respective weblogs making it look pretty and converting more and more people, no offence meant to anybody


----------



## Faun (Jul 29, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> Even 50MB DLS comes with GUI. And No, I did not read anything before installation. I usually trash an OS which requires a manual for installation.


Trash it ! Use what works for you. But viva la revolucion 

DSL is good to be a pen drive linux or some temporary solution. Add puppy linux too.


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista?


Which distro are you talking about?  If it is by any chance Ubuntu, no not at all.  After a simple 6 step install and reboot, it prompted me to install proprietary nVIDIA drivers.  Once installed it used my full widescreen resolution (1440 x 900) without me even having to set the resolution manually.  Beyond that I really did not do any configuration at all (except changing wallpaper and installing my essential software using synaptic).  Which part of it do you find *not as easy as configuring Vista*?


----------



## 4T7 (Jul 29, 2008)

I would rather say MS tricked people into liking Vista


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> .  Which part of it do you find *not as easy as configuring Vista*?


Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you have made it to sound.  In Ubuntu after installing the drivers or even without installing the drivers you need to change the monitor type to enable the respective resolutions. In Gutsy it was easier as the menu was easily given under the Settings options, but in hardy, I needed to refer T159's blog to find where the damn thing was. And, I am not the only 1 to have had this issue, go through your beloved OSS section, many have had this resolution problem. 

Yes, MS tricked them into liking Vista by showing them what Vista is in-person rather than letting them live in FUD


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you have made it to sound.  In Ubuntu after installing the drivers or even without installing the drivers you need to change the monitor type to enable the respective resolutions.


Those are exactly the steps I had gone through when installing Ubuntu on my system which has an Acer widescreen display.


iMav said:


> I am not the only 1 to have had this issue, go through your beloved OSS section, many have had this resolution problem.


Go through other troublehooting sections and any other forum for that matter.  You'd find 1000s of problems with Vista and XP systems too.  So neither are they easier to setup than Linux.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

Go through them, you will find more troubleshooting issues rather than setup issues.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

If you're talking about setup issues, I tried to install Ubuntu 8.04 on my computer which had XP already installed. After booting from the DVD, when I tried to start the installation, it gave me an ACPI/APIC error. Now if I'm a complete newbie to Linux, WTF am I supposed to do when I can't even get the stupid thing installed?? I figured out initially that it had something to do with ACPI config, so I went and disabled ACPI from the BIOS. Voila! I could now proceed to the installation. But when I tried to boot into XP after that, I could NOT. Turned out that XP needed ACPI enabled. I had to search the net for this issue and make changes to some stupid file in Ubuntu so that I could keep both OSs. Not exactly an "out of the box" experience, is it?


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> Go through them, you will find more troubleshooting issues rather than setup issues.


Please explain how exactly I must draw a line between these two so that I can filter posts to suit you.  



Kl@w-24 said:


> If you're talking about setup issues, I tried to install Ubuntu 8.04 on my computer which had XP already installed. After booting from the DVD, when I tried to start the installation, it gave me an ACPI/APIC error. Now if I'm a complete newbie to Linux, WTF am I supposed to do when I can't even get the stupid thing installed??


If your motherboard is not Linux compatible why blame Linux?  Blame the maker.

If a piece of hardware worked with Ubuntu 7.10 and suddenly stopped working with 8.04 only then can Linux be blamed.  Also, I have come across various installation problems with XP too (never re-installed Vista only wiped several Vista lappies  ).  I have had installer freezing while copying files, while saving settings, etc.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

Lingeek - Damn, Linux isn't working on my motherboard. It is hanging. My motherboard manufacturer sux, I am gonna sue him, post on blogs to users not to buy this manufacturer's products & curse them for life. I m going to blame Microsoft for Monopoly, DRM, Patent Troll. It's all the fault of Microsoft for maing an OS which works on every motherboard.

Clueless Computer user - Damn, Linux won't work with my motherboard. Lets use Windows instead, it works fine. Now where is that Rs 50 DVD of Vista I bought from Nehru Place???

Normal User - Linux isn't working....ok I m buying Windows Vista instead. It will work for sure.

Media User - Damn, Linux isn't working. & even if it does I can't watch that Blu Ray disk I bought of Batman begins??? Oh well, let's buy Vista home premium for 4.2k, everything works fine on it.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> If your motherboard is not *Linux compatible *why blame Linux?  Blame the maker.



Wow!! There is such a thing as* Linux Compatible*??? 
You mean if I want to run Linux, I need to buy compatible hardware? And if Microsoft recommends the same for Vista, you lot claim it's an outrage!!! Sheesh!!


----------



## 4T7 (Jul 29, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Lingeek - Damn, Linux isn't working on my motherboard. It is hanging. My motherboard manufacturer sux, I am gonna sue him, post on blogs to users not to buy this manufacturer's products & curse them for life. I m going to blame Microsoft for Monopoly, DRM, Patent Troll. It's all the fault of Microsoft for maing an OS which works on every motherboard.
> 
> Clueless Computer user - Damn, Linux won't work with my motherboard. Lets use Windows instead, it works fine. Now where is that Rs 50 DVD of Vista I bought from Nehru Place???
> 
> ...


What's this? ru trying to prove vista is better than linux?


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

It was a reply to the post above my post telling to blame the hardware manufacturer for not making "Linux Compatible" hardware. No hardware is made for a particular OS. Hardware always follows standards. An OS adheres to those standards & installs on the hardware. Now If Linux wants something special & lots of configuration while Windows doesn't to work on the same motherboard, which OS will u call better?


----------



## kumarmohit (Jul 29, 2008)

4T7 said:


> What's this? ru trying to prove vista is better than linux?


He is just sharing his perception, Is that a blasphemy?


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> If your motherboard is not *Linux compatible* why blame Linux?  Blame the maker.



AFAIK, that's NOT a problem with the manufacturer.

*ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=815642&highlight=ubuntu+8.04+acpi+apic+error


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

Kl@w-24 said:


> Wow!! There is such a thing as* Linux Compatible*???
> You mean if I want to run Linux, I need to buy compatible hardware? And if Microsoft recommends the same for Vista, you lot claim it's an outrage!!! Sheesh!!


No not at all.  If I have an XP compatible hardware, it should work with Vista (I maintain the same stance regarding Linux too).  Of course, I can't expect a win98 hardware to work on Vista.

By Linux compatible I mean hardware components for which its maker gives updated Linux drivers (nVIDIA), has open-sourced the drivers (Intel) or the FOSS community has managed a driver by reverse engineering, etc.

Also, what about all those hardware with Vista capable label falling on their face when actually used??


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

> By Linux compatible I mean hardware components for which its maker gives updated Linux drivers (nVIDIA),



Err... I'm using an nVidia nForce 430 chipset based motherboard


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> Which distro are you talking about?  If it is by any chance Ubuntu, no not at all.  After a simple 6 step install and reboot, it prompted me to install proprietary nVIDIA drivers.  Once installed it used my full widescreen resolution (1440 x 900) without me even having to set the resolution manually.  Beyond that I really did not do any configuration at all (except changing wallpaper and installing my essential software using synaptic).  Which part of it do you find *not as easy as configuring Vista*?


There haf been numerous instances with me where Ubuntu or any other binary distro just failed to install no matter what was done. XP worked out of the box without any issue. I never had to select or configure anything on my system. I just installed the drivers and voila I had a perfectly usable system in just 15 mins on XP.



iMav said:


> Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you have made it to sound.  In Ubuntu after installing the drivers or even without installing the drivers you need to change the monitor type to enable the respective resolutions. In Gutsy it was easier as the menu was easily given under the Settings options, but in hardy, I needed to refer T159's blog to find where the damn thing was. And, I am not the only 1 to have had this issue, go through your beloved OSS section, many have had this resolution problem.


There haf been numerous instances where Windows Vista just failed to install no matter what was done. Booted into Linux. I never had to select or configure anything on my system. I just installed the binary drivers with a one click install and voila I had a perfectly usable system in just 15 mins on Linux.



Kl@w-24 said:


> If you're talking about setup issues, I tried to install Ubuntu 8.04 on my computer which had XP already installed. After booting from the DVD, when I tried to start the installation, it gave me an ACPI/APIC error. Now if I'm a complete newbie to Linux, WTF am I supposed to do when I can't even get the stupid thing installed?? I figured out initially that it had something to do with ACPI config, so I went and disabled ACPI from the BIOS. Voila! I could now proceed to the installation. But when I tried to boot into XP after that, I could NOT. Turned out that XP needed ACPI enabled. I had to search the net for this issue and make changes to some stupid file in Ubuntu so that I could keep both OSs. Not exactly an "out of the box" experience, is it?


There are something called ACPI tables. They may be non-existant for Linux or broken. 90% of the boot installation problems are due to broken ACPI. In such cases, you can use the acpi=off switch when you boot into Ubuntu. I'm not saying should've done it coz you installed for the first time. When you make the above statement, you are perfectly correct  Every distro should come with a FAQ which answers Qs like these on a sheet of paper or in a text file (if you download online)



gx_saurav said:


> Lingeek - Damn, Linux isn't working on my motherboard. It is hanging. My motherboard manufacturer sux, I am gonna sue him, post on blogs to users not to buy this manufacturer's products & curse them for life. I m going to blame Microsoft for Monopoly, DRM, Patent Troll. It's all the fault of Microsoft for maing an OS which works on every motherboard.
> 
> Clueless Computer user - Damn, Linux won't work with my motherboard. Lets use Windows instead, it works fine. Now where is that Rs 50 DVD of Vista I bought from Nehru Place???
> 
> ...


1. Stop the useless troll please.

2. Very true.

3. Boy.. drank too much last nite? 

4. Good joke 



Kl@w-24 said:


> Wow!! There is such a thing as* Linux Compatible*???
> You mean if I want to run Linux, I need to buy compatible hardware? And if Microsoft recommends the same for Vista, you lot claim it's an outrage!!! Sheesh!!


As I explained, 90% of boot problems are due to ACPI issues. But the Linux distro companies are at fault for not alerting the users first place.



gx_saurav said:


> No hardware is made for a particular OS. Hardware always follows standards.


Dude.. stick to designing UIs... don't make a fool out of yourself by speaking something about which you haf no clue...

In all these years of computing.. the only factor which has made me decide whether an OS is easy to use or not is the availability and installation of drivers, be it Windows, Linux or Mac. Try installing an unbranded Chinese webcam on all the 3 OS' and you will know what I'm talking about.

Lets keep Linux out of this thread and preven the thread from going haywire. Stick to the topic please. If you haf anything to rant about Windows or Linux, create a separate thread for that.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> No not at all.  If I have an XP compatible hardware, it should work with Vista



All XP era motherboards work out of the box with Vista whether it is Intel 845 Chipset, Radeon XPress 200 or Via/Sis. They work but not with full features as for Aero Vista directX 9 based GPU etc etc. I was myself running Vista on a Intel 865GBF motherboard based system till March 2008 which was bought in 2003.

Even the old AC97 based onboard audio chips work in Vista just not with full features.


> By Linux compatible I mean hardware components for which its maker gives updated Linux drivers (nVIDIA), has open-sourced the drivers (Intel) or the FOSS community has managed a driver by reverse engineering, etc.



By Vista compatible I mean the hardware component for which its maker gives updated drivers or old XPDM drivers which work fine in Vista but loose new features.



> what about all those hardware with Vista capable label falling on their face when actually used??



There is only 1 such hardware I have seen so far, Intel GMA 900 graphics chip which is antique now.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Lets keep Linux out of this thread and preven the thread from going haywire. Stick to the topic please.



+1


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

Kl@w-24 said:


> Err... I'm using an nVidia nForce 430 chipset based motherboard


I have an Asus M2N-PV VM board.  It is based on nForce too.  I have absolutely no problem booting Ubuntu 8.04.  I did not have to do anything with BIOS.  But I don't dual boot, I use only Ubuntu.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

> 1. Stop the useless troll please.
> 
> 2. Very true.
> 
> ...



1) Will see

3) I don't drink or smoke

4) I have helped many friends in switching to a Vista based home theater system. The computer does everything media related for them with Vista MCE



> Dude.. stick to designing UIs... don't make a fool out of yourself by speaking something about which you haf no clue about...






> Try installing an unbranded Chinese webcam on all the 3 OS' and you will know what I'm talking about.



I gave one such webcam for Rs 500 to a friend in Lucknow, it worked automatically after plugging in Windows XP.

Oh! Well, back to square one. This project proves that all the Vista bad press is nothing but FUD.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> I have an Asus M2N-PV VM board.  It is based on nForce too.  I have absolutely no problem booting Ubuntu 8.04.  I did not have to do anything with BIOS.  But I don't dual boot, I use only Ubuntu.



Search for the Ubuntu 8.04 ACPI issue on the Internet, there have been several instances of it on a variety of hardware. But now let's leave this issue here


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> 1) Will see
> 
> 3) I don't drink or smoke
> 
> 4) I have helped many friends in switching to a Vista based home theater system. The computer does everything media related for them with Vista MCE


1. ThanQ 

3. Boy.. and still you post stuff like this? 

4. And what does that prove? Vista MCE is the only media center software working out there?



gx_saurav said:


> I gave one such webcam for Rs 500 to a friend in Lucknow, it worked automatically after plugging in Windows XP.


Without drivers? OMFG... 



gx_saurav said:


> Oh! Well, back to square one. This project proves that all the Vista bad press is nothing but FUD.


Which is very true... 



Kl@w-24 said:


> Search for the Ubuntu 8.04 ACPI issue on the Internet, there have been several instances of it on a variety of hardware. But now let's leave this issue here


True... There is no doubt about the fact that 8.04 was the most broken distro ever released by Canonical. That was a huge blunder by them and they are liable to be condemned. A company whose distro is by far the most popular shouldn't be this irresponsible.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Without drivers? OMFG...


My Logitech Quick Cam some model, worked out of the box in both XP & Vista. So yeah, you don't need to install drivers for every hardware. I thought you might be knowing this.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

Anirudh, I guess U are aware of the fact that Windows comes with many drivers included & also has Windows Update for driver updates.


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> True... There is no doubt about the fact that 8.04 was the most broken distro ever released by Canonical. That was a huge blunder by them and they are liable to be condemned. A company whose distro is by far the most popular shouldn't be this irresponsible.


The initial release of 8.04 had few problems.  They had to compromise and provide few programs which were in development version (Firefox 3 beta 5 for example) as they'll have to support them for another 2 years.  If they had provided current stable versions, they may become obsolete within 2 years (again FF 2 for example)

But the online updates and 8.04.1 made it very stable and these updates were available within few months (unlike other OS which took an year to fix the slow file copy bug).


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> No hardware is made for a particular OS. Hardware always follows standards.



This is the reason why I stopped getting into discussions with you. 



iMav said:


> My Logitech Quick Cam some model, worked out of the box in both XP & Vista. So yeah, you don't need to install drivers for every hardware. I thought you might be knowing this.



My unbranded, Chinese webcam works out of the box in Ubuntu Hardy but needs drivers in Vista.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> True... There is no doubt about the fact that 8.04 was the most broken distro ever released by Canonical. That was a huge blunder by them and they are liable to be condemned. A company whose distro is by far the most popular shouldn't be this irresponsible.



Now just think, someone has heard a lot about Ubuntu & Linux from his colleagues, friends, whatever. He goes on and downloads Ubuntu 8.04, only to find out that he can't even proceed to the installation!! What impression will he have of this OS and what will he tell others about it?

The same thing happened with Vista as well. People who hopped onto the Vista bandwagon at a very early stage (without realizing whether their computers were even capable of running it) were not too impressed with it and dismissed it as a resource-hog and a buggy OS. Some couldn't get things working coz they were so used to the XP interface that a slight change in the placement of items like Network Connections (for ex.) got them confused. The word then spread like wildfire that Vista is crap, don't use it and what-not. Things have changed for the better with SP1 but the beliefs that have been formed in people's minds just don't seem to go away.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

If there is something Vista did for the computer world (software & hardware) is that it made 2 GB as a minimum that most people have, which is a good thing, you can't have advances in  1 field and expect the other to stay archaic. Vista made buying a new computer very simple for most people who want a laptop or desktop, it set hardware benchmarks.


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> If there is something Vista did for the computer world (software & hardware) is that it made 2 GB as a minimum that most people have, which is a good thing, you can't have advances in  1 field and expect the other to stay archaic. Vista made buying a new computer very simple for most people who want a laptop or desktop, it set hardware benchmarks.


Wow!!  I never knew that a day would come when creating bloated software which hogged hardware resources would be called a contribution to technology.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> My Logitech Quick Cam some model, worked out of the box in both XP & Vista. So yeah, you don't need to install drivers for every hardware. I thought you might be knowing this.


Yeah? QuickCam is some unbranded Chinese cam? Quickcam works without drivers in XP, Vista, Most Linux distros and Mac OS X without any drivers.



gx_saurav said:


> Anirudh, I guess U are aware of the fact that Windows comes with many drivers included & also has Windows Update for driver updates.


For some unbranded Chinese webcam?

Thats the whole issue dude... DRIVERS.. thats what I've been screaming out since the start of this thread....



chandru.in said:


> The initial release of 8.04 had few problems.  They had to compromise and provide few programs which were in development version (Firefox 3 beta 5 for example) as they'll have to support them for another 2 years.  If they had provided current stable versions, they may become obsolete within 2 years (again FF 2 for example)


Plz don't link this "few problems" with the ACPI bug, the kernel bug etc. This is by far the worst distro out there released by Canonical. 

When you compare XP with Vista and say Vista was pathetic at the time of release I'd compare Ubuntu 7.10 and 8.04 and would the same about 8.04.

Just when we say about MS: "With power comes great responsibility", with Canonical I'd say: "With popularity and brand name (Ubuntu is synonymous with Linux today), comes great responsibility".



Kl@w-24 said:


> Now just think, someone has heard a lot about Ubuntu & Linux from his colleagues, friends, whatever. He goes on and downloads Ubuntu 8.04, only to find out that he can't even proceed to the installation!! What impression will he have of this OS and what will he tell others about it?


I would whole-heartedly agree on this with you and this is what I tried to highlight in my previous post. Canonical has been very irresponsible.



Kl@w-24 said:


> The same thing happened with Vista as well.


This where I fail to agree with you. Things were different when XP was released. The performance of OS to power of hardware ratio of Vista is very very bad as compared to any previous Windows version. It very evident. Just try running something like Auto CAD 2k8 or Maya or something + Vista on the standard hardware available today and compare it with the same during XP dayz. People who haf extensively used XP and previous releases and haf some knowledge about OS internals will agree to what I am saying.



iMav said:


> If there is something Vista did for the computer world (software & hardware) is that it made 2 GB as a minimum that most people have, which is a good thing, you can't have advances in  1 field and expect the other to stay archaic. Vista made buying a new computer very simple for most people who want a laptop or desktop, it set hardware benchmarks.


haha.. thats the funniest thing I've ever read  God save the computing world...


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> If there is something Vista did for the computer world (software & hardware) is that it made 2 GB as a minimum that most people have, which is a good thing, you can't have advances in  1 field and expect the other to stay archaic. Vista made buying a new computer very simple for most people who want a laptop or desktop, it set hardware benchmarks.



I wouldn't agree with you. Vista didn't just require people to upgrade RAM. If you want to enjoy the Aero interface, you'll also need to invest in a capable graphics card or an onboard solution that can support it. A new OS should NOT require you to upgrade substantial parts of your hardware, IMHO.

In a nutshell, I'd say Vista ain't bad, but it ain't that good either.



infra_red_dude said:


> This where I fail to agree with you. Things were different when XP was released. The performance of OS to power of hardware ratio of Vista is very very bad as compared to any previous Windows version. It very evident. Just try running something like Auto CAD 2k8 or Maya or something + Vista on the standard hardware available today and compare it with the same during XP dayz. People who haf extensively used XP and previous releases and haf some knowledge about OS internals will agree to what I am saying.



I'll have to say I agree with you. What I meant to say in my previous post was, that the devil is not as black as he is painted


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

^^ That's where you guys are fundamentally wrong. You want Vista ran on a P1 with 16 MB RAM and that is what I have been trying to tell you guys that software & hardware development should go hand in hand. You can't expect something released today consume the same amount of resources that are 5 year old.

Vista made 2 GB RAM a bare minimum for people buying computers.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> ^^ That's you guys are fundamentally wrong. You want Vista ran on a P1 with 16 MB RAM and that is hat I have been trying to tell you guys that software & hardware development should go hand in hand. You can't expect something released today consume the same amount of resources that are 5 year old.


Plz stop this BS dude.. nobody is trying to do that.. or even think as stupid as that.. people are not even able to run Vista properly with 1GB RAM.. and thats something which became a standard when Vista was released. The same goes for GMA 950.

I shouldn't drag this thing into this thread but anyway.. here goes.. When Apple announced that its dropping support for PPC arch. in Snow Leopard (to be released earliest by next year) you two were the first to cry about it and condemn Apple... and now you say this thing.. Thats purely double standards...


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

Ask the hardware manufacturers you will come to know how Vista has helped them in selling newer and better hardware. Stand at Croma's computer section for 15 minutes and listen to what people ask, will this machine run Vista, give me a comp that can run Vista. Even Croma execs say that Vista has helped them sell computers which usually people over look.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> ^^ That's where you guys are fundamentally wrong. You want Vista ran on a P1 with 16 MB RAM and that is what I have been trying to tell you guys that software & hardware development should go hand in hand. You can't expect something released today consume the same amount of resources that are 5 year old.
> 
> Vista made 2 GB RAM a bare minimum for people buying computers.



Let's talk about today's situation then. Suppose I've got 2 GB of RAM and I'm running Vista. Now you might be knowing, Vista needs 2 GB of RAM to be _comfortable_. I bought this system so that I could run resource-intensive apps like Maya or AutoCAD etc. but since I'm on Vista, the OS itself gobbles up a massive chunk of available memory!! So what's left for my apps???
I'm not saying for a minute that Vista sucks, but there _are_ some valid points against it.



iMav said:


> Ask the hardware manufacturers you will come to know how Vista has helped them in selling newer and better hardware.



And *costlier *hardware, may I add?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> Ask the hardware manufacturers you will come to know how Vista has helped them in selling newer and better hardware.


Are you defending Vista as a consumer or as a profit oriented hardware manufacturer? What has this post gotta do with us consumers?

What rationality in thinking, dude....  Hats off...

-----------

Anyways, was just posting in this thread for a change  Back to work now.. Lets forget about Mojave and ask the members of this forum about their experience on Vista  Thats the best acid test for it


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Anyways, was just posting in this thread for a change  Back to work now.. Lets forget about Mojave and ask the members of this forum about their experience on Vista  Thats the best acid test for it


What do you expect on an antiMS.com/forum?

As far helping consumers is concerned, the early something is adopted the sooner something better will come and the sooner it will mature and the sooner the cost comes down.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> For some unbranded Chinese webcam?
> 
> Thats the whole issue dude... DRIVERS.. thats what I've been screaming out since the start of this thread....



U do know that even these web cams adheres to some standards & use common web cam chipsets.



> Just try running something like Auto CAD 2k8 or Maya or something + Vista on the standard hardware available today and compare it with the same during XP dayz



Ahem...sure about this? Then how M I working???? GPU acceleration & DWM is the best thing which happened to computing.

the high end hardware which once vista required is now dirt cheap & standard.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> U do know that even these web cams adheres to some standards & use common web cam chipsets.


Just coz something works for your "ideal" hardware doesn't mean it works for the whole world. Jus come over dude..  I will anyday prove this wrong. You are mistaken.. all those exotic hardware use some obscure chipsets which fail to work on any OS'. Take that situation and then compare the OS'.



gx_saurav said:


> *Ahem...sure about this?* Then how M I working???? GPU acceleration & DWM is the best thing which happened to computing. the high end hardware which once vista required is now dirt cheap & standard.


Come over to my place and I will show you at least 30 computers like this and more.

PS: Arrange your own tickets 




iMav said:


> Ask the hardware manufacturers you will come to know how Vista has helped them in selling newer and better hardware. Stand at Croma's computer section for 15 minutes and listen to what people ask, will this machine run Vista, give me a comp that can run Vista. Even Croma execs say that Vista has helped them sell computers which usually people over look.


And the point is? Are you trying to say MS is helping the hardware vendors make huge bucks by duping the consumers into buying new hardware for Vista?



iMav said:


> What do you expect on an antiMS.com/forum?


For once.. lets bar all those people in this forum who use Linux or haf even tried it once. Conduct the survey on purely Windows users and see what the result is 

And frankly dude.. I'm not dragging Linux or even Mac OS X in this thread. All my posts pertain to comparisons between MS' own OS' - XP and Vista.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Come over to my place and I will show you at least 30 computers like this and more.



No need to yell, if you don't know how to configure a Workstation, it's not my mistake.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

^^^ haha.. OK dude.. point noted.. I don't know to "configure a Workstation"


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

Ya right. If a user can't configure a Linux workstation, it is the fault of Linux. However, if a user can't configure a Vista workstation, it is the fault of the user. Cool.


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

Same stuff ..... New Packaging. As far as this thread goes I only have a few things.  


> Oh! Well, back to square one. This project proves that all the Vista bad press is nothing but FUD.


Created by your own users or people who "don't know how to configure a Workstation." 



> What do you expect on an antiMS.com/forum?


I doubt this forum is antiMS as you put it. Anti-Fanboy maybe. AntiMS , Nope don't think so.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

Pat said:


> Ya right. If a user can't configure a Linux workstation, it is the fault of Linux. However, if a user can't configure a Vista workstation, it is the fault of the user. Cool.


A request to keep 'Linux' out of this thread. Things will get out of control, otherwise.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

More info on the Mojave experiment:



			
				Windows Vista Blog said:
			
		

> The focus group took place over three days in San Francisco and was conducted earlier this month.
> 
> All participants were either Mac, Linux, or users of versions of Windows that came before Windows Vista. Respondents were chosen from the focus group organizer's database, called at random, but then selected based on having a low perception of Vista (<5 rating on a scale of 1-10).
> The participants were given a demo by a trained retail salesperson - geared towards the experiences they seemed most interested in following a series of interviews. While the retail salesperson drove the demo, it was geared by the interests and direction of the participant.
> ...


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

> Of the 120 respondents polled, on a scale of 1:10 where 10 was the highest rating, the average pre-rating for Windows Vista was 4.4. After they saw the demo, respondents rated Mojave an average of 8.5.


LMAO.....


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

Result videos have been uploaded: *www.mojaveexperiment.com/


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

Nice marketing gimmick  Btw, is the demo of Mojave that they showed to those dumb people available for public to view ?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

Some facts from the official website:

Of the users - 

84% were WinXP users
22% were Mac OS users
14% Pre-WinXP users
1% Linux users.

What they did: 
The participants were given a demo by a trained retail salesperson - geared towards the experiences they seemed most interested in following a series of interviews. While the retail salesperson drove the demo, it was geared by the interests and direction of the participant.

The participants were not allowed to use the system. A salesperson gave them a demo of "Mojave" and people's rating jumped from 4.4 to 8.5 after the "slideshow" 

Ok.. enough of jokes now


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> The participants were not allowed to use the system. A salesperson gave them a demo of "Mojave" and people's rating jumped from 4.4 to 8.5 after the "slideshow"



OMG! Slideshow  Haha!


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Some facts from the official website:
> 
> Of the users -
> 
> ...




ans I guess I know why only 1% were linux users... that would equal to about a single guy (as they interviewed 120 guys) maybe he was too thin, so they counted him as 1 instead of 1.2... and they are claiming that _even_ linux users find mojave better than xp


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

Slideshow??? WTF!! I thought participants actually got to _USE_ the systems loaded with Mojave!!!


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

They cant even get the mojave site to run properly. Links are broken.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> The participants were not allowed to use the system. A salesperson gave them a demo of "Mojave" and people's rating jumped from 4.4 to 8.5 after the "slideshow"


Slideshow? I have not been able to see the video, my net is acting weird. Are you sure it is a slideshow, like power-point slides? Or is it a demo they were given, which you call a slideshow? FYI, most demos are like that only, if you have ever seen or taken one. A sales-rep showing you whatever product you are interested in.

Off course, not giving hands-on is lame.


MetalheadGautham said:


> ans I guess I know why only 1% were linux users... that would equal to about a single guy (as they interviewed 120 guys) maybe he was too thin, so they counted him as 1 instead of 1.2... and they are claiming that _even_ linux users find mojave better than xp


I hope you could make sense of what you siad.



Pat said:


> They cant even get the mojave site to run properly. Links are broken.


The links are working fine.


----------



## Pat (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> The links are working fine.



First link is OK.
Second link takes me to this page: 
*www.microsoft.com/err/windows/windows-vista/get/p_default/default
Third link to this:
*www.microsoft.com/err/windows/headerFooter
Last link does not work at all.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> Slideshow? I have not been able to see the video, my net is acting weird. Are you sure it is a slideshow, like power-point slides? Or is it a demo they were given, which you call a slideshow? FYI, *most demos *are like that only, if you have ever seen or taken one. A sales-rep showing you whatever product you are interested in.


Slideshow was a sarcastic way of putting the word "demo". The joke here is not 'slideshow' but 'demo'.. 

Beat this: I haf a fully configured XP MCE or Linux + MythTV or Linux + XBMC or Mac OS X. I get 100 people and show them whatever they need can be done on this system.. would you call it a success like the BS Mojave experiment which has changed the "perspective" of the people about the product? How can you even "change" the rating of a product by just looking at the demo? How lame is that?

If 10,000 people were given Vista machines disguised as Mojave and allowed to use for a month and then asked about the rating and if then Vista would come out as a winner, it makes sense. 100 people are given a demo of Vista for 3 dayz by a salesperson and then say the people love it.. they upped the rating from 4.4 to 8.5.. then I'd say.. thats BULLSH1T.. screw those dumb people...


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> If 10,000 people were given Vista machines disguised as Mojave and allowed to use for a month and then asked about the rating and if then Vista would come out as a winner, it makes sense. 100 people are given a demo of Vista for 3 dayz by a salesperson and then say the people love it.. they upped the rating from 4.4 to 8.5.. then I'd say.. thats BULLSH1T.. screw those dumb people...



I'm disappointed... I really thought that the participants were allowed to use Mojave/Vista like normal machines and then their reactions were taken. 

It's all back to square one, I guess. When people saw initial leaked photos & features of Vista/Longhorn, they were simply awestruck. But when they actually got to use it, it turned out to be a damp squib.


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> If 10,000 people were given Vista machines disguised as Mojave and allowed to use for a month and then asked about the rating and if then Vista would come out as a winner, it makes sense. 100 people are given a demo of Vista for 3 dayz by a salesperson and then say the people love it.. they upped the rating from 4.4 to 8.5.. then I'd say.. thats BULLSH1T.. screw those dumb people...


Off course it's lame that people weren't actually given a hands-on, people like us who are the fidgety types would have wanted a hands-on. But, most demos are like that only.

Also, saying that screw those people makes no difference. Those are the same people who will buy Vista/OS X or Linux, though I never see them using Linux .... ever.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> Off course it's lame that people weren't actually given a hands-on, people like us who are the fidgety types would have wanted a hands-on. But, most demos are like that only.



If that's the case, how can they increase the rating??? Is this the correct way to increase a product's rating, by providing a so-called DEMO of its features???


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

Err ... dude, that's what demos are for. Showing you a product, you like it, you're impressed you find it nice, you find it appealing you give it a rating according to you and then you buy t. That's how a customer works, that's how YOU will buy something. GO to a shop, see the stuff, touch it feel it and if you like it you will give it a score according to you, not necessarily numeric but will rate it and then make a decision. 

And it's not MS who is increasing the rating, it is the people who saw the demo, increased their initial rating of Vista.

I simply don't understand what is the problem if someone is shown something and then they find it appealing and change their opinion about it.


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

It's just that I expected something else, something different from Microsoft. This demo thingy has happened with me many times & I'm sure it has happened with a lot of people, that a product looks & feels great in the store but once you start using it, you realize that it isn't actually that good...


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

iMav said:


> And it's not MS who is increasing the rating, it is the people who saw the demo, increased their initial rating of Vista.






iMav said:


> I simply don't understand what is the problem if someone is shown something and then they find it appealing and change their opinion about it.


The problem is that such a stupid event leads to 5 pages of useless discussions on forums like these and then MS fanboys start trolling and saying - See how great Vista is.. Mac and Linux users are spreading FUD against Vista. Vista has come out clean. It a winner. Starts to bash Linux/Mac OS X . blah.. blah.. blah.. 

And before GX edits his posts lemme prove what I said above:



			
				GX said:
			
		

> Well, don't U guys agree that configuring Linux is not as easy as configuring Vista? Those people who were at the Mojave Demo r proof that Vista's bad press is nothing but FUD by Anti-MS people & vista no longer is in the same state as it was on launch. people havn't used vista still they blame it like Sandisk CEO was blaming for there low performing SSDs





			
				GX said:
			
		

> Mojave project proved that the bad vista press was nothing but FUD by lingeeks & Macboys who have never used it





			
				GX said:
			
		

> It is the fault of hardware manufacturer that there are no drivers for Windows Vista for there hardware. In case of Linux it is Linux's fault cos they restrict drivers to be open source only & closed source drivers do not always work with Linux. Driver manufacturer has the choice to release OSS or closed source drivers in case of Windows, but in case of Linux they must OSS it even if they don't want to. Since many hardware manufacturers don't want to release the source of there drivers, they cannot be blamed for not providing linux drivers. Windows gives them choice of going either open source or closed source, Linux doesn't





			
				GX said:
			
		

> Lingeek - Damn, Linux isn't working on my motherboard. It is hanging. My motherboard manufacturer sux, I am gonna sue him, post on blogs to users not to buy this manufacturer's products & curse them for life. I m going to blame Microsoft for Monopoly, DRM, Patent Troll. It's all the fault of Microsoft for maing an OS which works on every motherboard.
> 
> Clueless Computer user - Damn, Linux won't work with my motherboard. Lets use Windows instead, it works fine. Now where is that Rs 50 DVD of Vista I bought from Nehru Place???
> 
> ...


 etc... etc... This is the problem!!!!


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> The problem is that such a stupid event leads to 5 pages of useless discussions on forums like these and then MS fanboys start trolling and saying - See how great Vista is.. Mac and Linux users are spreading FUD against Vista. Vista has come out clean. It a winner. Starts to bash Linux/Mac OS X . blah.. blah.. blah..


 Well, now the other side will start bashing MS. And the story continues ...


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

^^^ Exactly, what I am trying to say... 5 pages err.. now 6 pages of useless discussion. Lies.. FUD.. you'll find everything in this thread but rational discussion...  and that is what is taking its toll on digit forums...


----------



## Cyrus_the_virus (Jul 29, 2008)

@infra, I can't believe you have been arguing with a wall for such a long time, you know there's no point in arguing with whom you are doing now, you were the one advising about this, but now you seem to be on the other side 

Anyways, fun to watch from the sidelines the ignorance of a few in this thread


----------



## preshit.net (Jul 29, 2008)

1% of 120 people were Linux user(s) ? Isn't that 1.2 guy/gal ?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> @infra, I can't believe you have been arguing with a wall for such a long time, you know there's no point in arguing with whom you are doing now, you were the one advising about this, but now you seem to be on the other side
> 
> Anyways, fun to watch from the sidelines the ignorance of a few in this thread


Naah.. I usually don't... rather never if you dig up my posts.. but somehow felt I should take a break from my work 

And I argued here only because there was a chance to pit Vista against XP in many posts... I'd haf never argued if it was Vista vs. Mac or Vista vs. Linux, coz we all know the outcome 

I dunno when was the last time I argued with anybody on the forums.. but this time it was fun time for me


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> as even a blind person cud sense that everything is against Vista this time and XP comes out to be better



+1

I love my XP


----------



## tarey_g (Jul 29, 2008)

I hope you all saw this 
*www.mojaveexperiment.com


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 29, 2008)

^^^ hehe... you are a bit late


----------



## FilledVoid (Jul 29, 2008)

> 1% of 120 people were Linux user(s) ? Isn't that 1.2 guy/gal ?


Maybe the person was a cross-dresser?


----------



## iMav (Jul 29, 2008)

I guess there was a pun intended.


----------



## tarey_g (Jul 29, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> ^^^ hehe... you are a bit late


 
No I am not


----------



## chandru.in (Jul 29, 2008)

Could someone please enlighten me how exactly this Mojave experiment was different from the stalls in shopping malls which demoed Vista during its initial release?

I saw some people saying wow in those stalls too!  But it didn't mean the world accepted Vista!!


----------



## amitava82 (Jul 29, 2008)

Wow they managed to get 120 random people who have never seen vista? And a demo does not prove anything. It does not take much time to change people's opinion with demo and show them what YOU want to show. Same results can be achieved with Linux. No big deal. And most of the responses looks sarcastic. I dunno what you feel.


----------



## anandk (Jul 29, 2008)

Most of Vista's problems are caused due to pre-installed crapware. You don't see all this happening on a Mac machine, do you!? The Mac hardware and the software are well integrated with each other and shipped. But in the case of Windows Vista, Microsoft sells the licenses to the manufacturers, who loaded it on the machines along with the trial ware. Money is offered to the computers manufacturers by the software publishers, but the cost paid for by the Vista end user in terms of bad performance!  

Microsoft needs to take note of this fast ! I know Microsoft is aware of this and have they have also said that there is little they can do about it, but they have to realize that in the end, it is Microsoft itself that gets the ... err ... cake in its face. 

Its a mighty fine idea of having a snazzy new ad campaign and spending $500 million on it. But maybe Microsoft would want to consider diverting a bit of this money to the manufacturers instead, since they appear reluctant to let go of even this pocket change. It would be money well spent !  

Microsoft wouldn't then have to resort to tricking customers into liking Vista, with *Mojave* sort of experiments.  

Sourced from Exorcise Your New Windows Vista Computer.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 29, 2008)

^^ agree a lot. Many guys I know who use Dell laptops say they ended up formatting it and reinstalling from the Vista Disc a few hours after using the laptop because there were quite a good number of trial software.

Ofcource, a mac also comes with trialware like iWork, but in its case, things are different because their target audience does not mind it.

Moral of the story: _If you need an OS to work best for you, install it from the scratch, choosing exactly what you WANT to install._

PS: but why is this significant in this thread ?


----------



## tarey_g (Jul 30, 2008)

^^ Surprisingly my dell 1520 inspiron did not come with any crapware loaded with vista and they also gave me vista dvd unlike sony which only gives backup on you laptopp's hdd or backup dvd's.


----------



## iMav (Jul 30, 2008)

anandk said:


> Microsoft needs to take note of this fast ! I know Microsoft is aware of this and have they have also said that there is little they can do about it, but they have to realize that in the end, it is Microsoft itself that gets the ... err ... cake in its face.


I think Ballmer talked about this recently when he said that they will be making amends in the way they deal with hardware manufacturers.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 30, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> ^^ agree a lot. Many guys I know who use Dell laptops say they ended up formatting it and reinstalling from the Vista Disc a few hours after using the laptop because there were quite a good number of trial software.
> 
> Ofcource, a mac also comes with trialware like iWork, but in its case, things are different because their target audience does not mind it.
> 
> ...




Not just Vista. 

My personal image of Windows Vista runs extremely faster on T43 than the winxp image that my company provides that is loaded with thousand security and internal apps.

I really do think that vista haters in my company will increase once we move to Vista as the default OS because I can bet on my life that the image builders here will ruin vista by adding unnecessary bloatware into it.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 30, 2008)

desiibond said:


> Not just Vista.
> 
> My personal image of Windows Vista runs extremely faster on T43 than the winxp image that my company provides that is loaded with thousand security and internal apps.
> 
> I really do think that vista haters in my company will increase once we move to Vista as the default OS because I can bet on my life that the image builders here will ruin vista by adding unnecessary bloatware into it.


I know. I hate this attitude some people have that configuring from scratch is hard and next to impossible. I installed my OS from the scratch, and I am already seeing differences from my older install which had lots of pre-installed stuff.


----------



## Pat (Jul 30, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> I know. I hate this attitude some people have that configuring from scratch is hard and next to impossible. I installed my OS from the scratch, and I am already seeing differences from my older install which had lots of pre-installed stuff.



Sir you are a genius but not everyone is a geek and they care a **** about all this.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 30, 2008)

^^ You don't have to be a rocket scientist to install OS from scratch.


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 30, 2008)

Pat said:


> Sir you are a genius but not everyone is a geek and they care a **** about all this.


look at desiibond's reply. 
installing from the scratch takes just 20 minutes or so extra time, but gives lots more performance.


desiibond said:


> ^^ You don't have to be a rocket scientist to install OS from scratch.


----------



## iMav (Jul 30, 2008)

What Pat is referring is not installing but installing+configuring. Windows after installation is workable, the same cannot be said about some other OSs which need a lot of configuring to do.


----------



## Pat (Jul 30, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> look at desiibond's reply.
> installing from the scratch takes just 20 minutes or so extra time, but gives lots more performance.



I meant that very few people like you and me care about performance tweaking and installing and configuring everything from scratch. 

This was in response to your "I hate such people".


----------



## desiibond (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes. it's not easy task for starters. But "The juice is worth the squeeze".


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 30, 2008)

iMav said:


> What Pat is referring is not installing but installing+configuring. Windows after installation is workable, the same cannot be said about some other OSs which need a lot of configuring to do.


Oye its not at all true. I installed only AFTER configuring everything (arch had a menu where I was allowed to configure before installation). And including that time was too low. Just a few basic edits of some text files and I was done.

But then again, tell me, taking windows itself as the subject, if I told you that by spending an hour or two extra, you can make windows after installation 10-20% faster than normal, wouldn't you be willing to spend some time like that ?

And even in windows, you have nLite. With lots of effort and time, finally if you manage to create the perfect install DVD, you don't need to do ANYTHING at all again on the next reinstall. Same is true for custom live distros.

*TWEAKING FOR PERFORMANCE AND INSTALLING FROM THE SCRATCH IS GOOD*


----------



## desiibond (Jul 30, 2008)

And it's not difficult task too. It's easier to learn how to install and configure an app than learning how to install and configure dependancies for rpm's 

no offense meant but it's a one time learn. This is age of the internet. You just don't have to live with the bloatware just because you don't know how to do it from scratch. 

Learn and evolve. That's how the world goes.

And don't blame Vista if you can't learn. 

PS: I am referring to people like this one in "*www.mojaveexperiment.com/#/?video=v53".


----------



## Kl@w-24 (Jul 30, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> *TWEAKING FOR PERFORMANCE AND INSTALLING FROM THE SCRATCH IS GOOD*



Agreed. But first-time buyers or newbies or even casual users won't bother with all that. They want to start using their new computer as soon as they turn it on for the first time, without any noticeable sluggishness.

And BTW, why are we mentioning this point? I lost track of the discussion, actually


----------



## MetalheadGautham (Jul 30, 2008)

Kl@w-24 said:


> Agreed. But first-time buyers or newbies or even casual users won't bother with all that. They want to start using their new computer as soon as they turn it on for the first time, without any noticeable sluggishness.
> 
> And BTW, why are we mentioning this point? I lost track of the discussion, actually


I know, I know. Thats why I say do the configuring AFTER you do the growing intrest in computing part.

PS: this part is being mentioned so that we change the topic to something that does not involve fanboy wars...


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

Interesting read:
*www.microsoft-watch.com/content/ma...xperiment_fails.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

hmm. 



> 1. Microsoft treats its customers like they're stupid


MS is trying to educate those who think vista sucks without even looking at it. Of course, they are stupid to rely on stupid media comments



> 2. Microsoft embarrasses Mojave participates


Microsoft showed Mojave participates what really Vista is. They enlightened them 
There is only one embarrassed participant. in video No. 51. 



> 3. The marketing campaign blames customers for Vista's problems


wow. what an understanding by the author. It's authors like this that created wrong though on Vista



> 4. Microsoft denies there is a real problem


MS did agree that there was a problem and they fixed it. Look at Vista now, it's rocking. Seems like the author is stil living in 2007 January.



> 5. Mojave seethes with arrogance


I am Vista user for 18 months (2yrs since beta testing). After reading the article, I would say that it's the author that is arrogant and nobody else. 


PS: Please don't refer such bullshit articles.


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> hmm.
> 
> MS is trying to educate those who think vista sucks without even looking at it. Of course, they are stupid to rely on stupid media comments


 
 Yea right. People are stupid to read media and expert reviews and then make a decision.  They should buy it straight-away without reading reviews because MS is saying its good.



> Microsoft showed Mojave participates what really Vista is. They enlightened them
> There is only one embarrassed participant. in video No. 51.


 Yea SHOWED. Like a video of all the nice features in Mojava/Vista.



> wow. what an understanding by the author. It's authors like this that created wrong though on Vista


What ?



> MS did agree that there was a problem and they fixed it. Look at Vista now, it's rocking. Seems like the author is stil living in 2007 January.


Ya its rocking now. 
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94234



> I am Vista user for 18 months (2yrs since beta testing). After reading the article, I would say that it's the author that is arrogant and nobody else.


I guess everyone here would agree that Mojave experiment is a bit lame. They showed just a video of all the good features in vista and after the users (dumb if I may add) gave it a higher rating, they conclude that it was all FUD that brought vista down in the first place. Can you beat that ? Just a video and 120 stupid people let brought them to that conclusion ? This is what I call arrogance.



> PS: Please don't refer such bullshit articles.


 Please don't call articles bullshit just because you don't agree with the authors views.


----------



## preshit.net (Jul 31, 2008)

Placebo and Hawthorne effect, anyone?


----------



## Faun (Jul 31, 2008)

^^yeah Hawthorne heights and Placebo

Count the Rashomon in too


----------



## naveen_reloaded (Jul 31, 2008)

vista is seriuosly one good OS... 
some time ago i had chance to go back to XP.. man now i know why vista rocks..
XP isawesome too but vista is VERY userfriendly.. and SECURE too..
if anyone is complaining about UAC , after SP1 can  go to hell..
it may sound annoying for geeks and nerds.. but for common person... its a secure wall before something goer wrong..

I haven seen mojave... 

VISTA is AWESOME !!


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> Yea right. People are stupid to read media and expert reviews and then make a decision.  They should buy it straight-away without reading reviews because MS is saying its good.
> 
> Yea SHOWED. Like a video of all the nice features in Mojava/Vista.
> 
> ...





Well!! what can I say. A non-Vista user sticking to a bullshit article, written by a dumb nonvista 80yr old journalist. Way to go. 

I said this before and will say again, "If you don't know how to use Vista, stay away from it and stop shouting that it is bad". 



> I guess everyone here would agree that Mojave experiment is a bit lame. They showed just a video of all the good features in vista and after the users (dumb if I may add) gave it a higher rating, they conclude that it was all FUD that brought vista down in the first place. Can you beat that ? Just a video and 120 stupid people let brought them to that conclusion ? This is what I call arrogance.
> 
> Please don't call articles bullshit just because you don't agree with the authors views.



Oh yes. You mean "A good company is something that should show all the negatives about it's product for advertising instead of showing the positives to peope???"

Hell man!!!.  now, I do not boubt that guy in video #51. 

*There are few whom we cannot satisfy*

BTW, To buy a software, I do test it out and also read reviews. *I will not go gaga with media without testing it*

For how many minutes did you use Vista? and if you used, is that on Pentium 1 machine or on a Pentium 2 machine?


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> Well!! what can I say. A non-Vista user sticking to a bullshit article, written by a dumb nonvista 80yr old journalist. Way to go.
> 
> I said this before and will say again, "If you don't know how to use Vista, stay away from it and stop shouting that it is bad".



Please learn to post in a civilized manner. And don't try to vent your frustrations on me. I am not your mummy. And nobody is shouting that vista is bad, because everyone knows it is 



> Oh yes. You mean "A good company is something that should show all the negatives about it's product for advertising instead of showing the positives to peope???"
> 
> BTW, To buy a software, I do test it out and also read reviews. *I will not go gaga with media without testing it*
> 
> For how many minutes did you use Vista? and if you used, is that on Pentium 1 machine or on a Pentium 2 machine?



Please refrain from posting something that you dont know about. I have a fairly decent lappy and have probably used and explored it more than you.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^haha. Probably, yes. Probably.

Explored Vista!!! hmm. Around Vista in 8 hours 

What frustrates me is those who can't type on a keyboard, write articles on vista and Mojave experiment.



> Please refrain from posting something that you dont know about.



You are ready to read articles written by someone know knows nothing about Vista and refer them in forums but when someone in forums responds aggressive, you say that it should be refrained. LOLZ


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> What frustrates me is those who can't type on a keyboard, write articles on vista and Mojave experiment.
> 
> You are ready to read articles written by someone know knows nothing about Vista and refer them in forums but when someone in forums responds aggressive, you say that it should be refrained. LOLZ



Yes sir. Anyone can be aggressive, but the point is that you can make statements without being aggressive. 

And my friend, just because an authors view does not match with yours, you cannot call him stupid and the article bullshit.

And JFYI I asked you to refrain from posting about my pc and how long/much I have used vista. Clear ?


----------



## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> Explored Vista!!! hmm. Around Vista in 8 hours


 pwnage. Good one. 



Pat said:


> And my friend, just because an authors view does not match with yours, you cannot call him stupid and the article bullshit.


FYI Microsoft Watch is considered as a stupid blog by everyone, the author once a year produces an article that makes any sense. His writing style is such where he always makes points like "Microsoft thinks that its users are dumb, Microsoft we are not dumb." His articles aren't meant to be taken as standard, he himself doesn't know where he stands.


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

iMav said:


> pwnage. Good one.



Lol! You are no different than him. How much do you know me ?



> FYI Microsoft Watch is considered as a stupid blog by everyone, the author once a year produces an article that makes any sense. His writing style is such where he always makes points like "Microsoft thinks that its users are dumb, Microsoft we are not dumb." His articles aren't meant to be taken as standard, he himself doesn't know where he stands.



Yes obviously, every blog that posts anti-ms articles is stupid.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^ haha. We are saying again and again, still you come to the same point. 

The concern is journalists writing reports on vista without using vista (or without using it in proper way or trying to use it like xp).

They shout for new version and when the new version comes, they just blah blah's saying that it's not like XP. If it should be like XP, why should there be a new version.

Yes, with every new release of OS, there will be some bugs and the same is the case with Vista.

For gods sake, OS X Leopard that runs on only one (maybe two) architecture(s) had issues in the early stages. 

Vista is being used on thousands of devices. How can you just expect it to bond with every single gadget in the world right from the day 1.

And the irony is non-vista users complaining about vista's ability. what the period do they know about Vista? 

That is why MS had to take up the Mojave experiment. Show them the way to use it. Show them what exactly it is. And you see the result. 4.4 rating to 8.4. Those are the same users that used to say that Vista sucks blah blah blah and when they really saw what vista does, they are speechless.

Why the hell is MS Vista targeted like this. Vista recognizes and works with more number of devices than linux or unix or osx can work with. Still it is blamed. Why, coz blaming it feels so cool.

If you can't play a game, say crysis, you think that it needs better hardware (or latest hardware). You either get new hardware or stay thinking that you are unable to play such a great game.

But when Vista doesn't run properly on incompatible hardware, you blame Microsoft instead of thinking to get the same hardware.

Crysis is famous because of it's visual appeal and is more famous coz it burns CPU and GPU.

Vista is infamouse because of it's visual appeal and  it burns CPU and GPU (they think and never knew that it can blaze on a 4-5 year old irg. All that it need is 1Gb to 2Gb RAM).

I think atleast now you would've understood. If you still can't, well, *there are few who can never be satified*

*PS: Read this entire post*


----------



## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> Yes obviously, every blog that posts anti-ms articles is stupid.


Nope, there are well respected blogs that point out genuine flaws technically, in marketing or anything generally related to Microsoft and those blgos are frequented by Microsoft. This particular blog is given no weightage. The first few paragraphs show how much Microsoft gives about this author.


desiibond said:


> If you can't play a game, say crysis, you think that it needs better hardware (or latest hardware). You either get new hardware or stay thinking that you are unable to play such a great game.



Well that requires some rationality. But people think that if an OS can't run on 486 it is a bad OS.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> Yes obviously, every blog that posts anti-ms articles is stupid.



Correction!!! Every blog written by nonsense journalists without having any idea on tech is stupid eriod:


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> The concern is journalists writing reports on vista without using vista (or without using it in proper way or trying to use it like xp).



And how do you know this ? 



> Yes, with every new release of OS, there will be some bugs and the same is the case with Vista.
> 
> And the irony is non-vista users complaining about vista's ability. what the period do they know about Vista?



And what makes you believe that they have not used it long enough ?




> That is why MS had to take up the Mojave experiment. Show them the way to use it. Show them what exactly it is. And you see the result. 4.4 rating to 8.4. Those are the same users that used to say that Vista sucks blah blah blah and when they really saw what vista does, they are speechless.



Dude, please read some facts about the experiment and then comment. They were shown a "video" of the OS. How lame is that ? 



> Vista recognizes and works with more number of devices than linux or unix or osx can work with.



I dont disagree with that.



> Vista is infamouse because of it's visual appeal.



Whatever that is supposed to mean ?



> I think atleast now you would've understood. If you still can't, well, *there are few can never be satified*



Understood what ?



iMav said:


> This particular blog is given no weightage. The first few paragraphs show how much Microsoft gives about this author.



And that makes the blog and its articles stupid ?



> Well that requires some rationality. But people think that if an OS can't run on 486 it is a bad OS.



Those people are plain dumb.


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

well. What can I say!!!!. 

after saying so much, here you are asking useless questions. Anways, look at those videos, All of them say, we heard vista is bad, thought vista is bad. 

how do you know that they have used vista long enough??? huh. 

They don't even know how Vista looks like. huh. have to explain everything to you. I understand now why you don't like Vista 

The end result of experiment is clear. Users who never used vista are ready to try it after seeing those videos. And yes, there is one person who is not ready to accept that it is vista just because he thinks vista is slow. 

There are lot of articles that explain how to use vista. Don't read them. Don't try to learn. Just say that it sucks. Why? coz neighbours are saying the same. Way to go!!!!

eg: *www.pcworld.com/article/147686/last_os_standing_make_the_most_of_windows_vista.html

PS: this article cum tutorial is not for 486 machines. <<<this is 2008>>>


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> after saying so much, here you are asking useless questions. Anways, look at those videos, All of them say, we heard vista is bad, thought vista is bad.
> 
> how do you know that they have used vista long enough??? huh.



Exactly!! Bingo buddy! Nor do I know nor do you. So why do you have to repeatedly say "people criticize without even using it" ?  pwned 



> The end result of experiment is clear. Users who never used vista are ready to try it after seeing those videos.



Ya right. 120 users 



> There are lot of articles that explain how to use vista. Don't read them. Don't try to learn. Just say that it sucks.



Why should anyone learn vista, when XP gets everything done ? What advantage does vista provide over xp ? What advantage does an end user gain by being forced to upgrade their machines ? It has been proved that XP pwns vista in business scenario, but give me some of its benefits over XP for end users  ? Dont tell me DirectX 10 please


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^ That really means that you don't know anything about Vista. 

read for yourself: *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Flip_3D#Windows_Flip_and_Flip_3D

I don't believe I have to do the spoon feeding!!!


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

OMG!! Flip 3D ! Aero effects!! Sooo amazing wowwiee 

You are right.I want those effects. I am buying a new lappy for those Aero effects


----------



## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> Exactly!! Bingo buddy! Nor do I know nor do you. So why do you have to repeatedly say "people criticize without even using it" ?  pwned



you just pawned yourself. How pathetic. see those videos. see those videos. everyone says they never tried vista. HUH. 

You know what, you have to stop reading bits of information and start reading entire content. only then you will be albe to understand.

I answered that question thrice and still you ask the same. 

Is this what a n00b is like???

asking same question again and again though the answer is presented???

be it 120 or 12. It shows that it was the misunderstanding. 

PS: how old are you. coz if you aren't old enough to understand what business and marketing is, then it's not your mistake thinking Vista is bad.



> Why should anyone learn vista, when XP gets everything done ? What advantage does vista provide over xp ? What advantage does an end user gain by being forced to upgrade their machines ? It has been proved that XP pwns vista in business scenario, but give me some of its benefits over XP for end users  ? Dont tell me DirectX 10 please



another classic example. You are thinking of vista in XP's point of view.

Go ahead and stick to 486's!!!



Pat said:


> OMG!! Flip 3D ! Aero effects!! Sooo amazing wowwiee
> 
> You are right.I want those effects. I am buying a new lappy for those Aero effects



LOLZ. What a n00b you are. I gave you a 10 page doc and all that you saw is Aero effects. Really man, I don't regret saying that iit's just hopeless explaining to someone like you.

You are a carbon copy of that man in video #51. Infact, that guy atleast realized that it's actually fast. and you....

OMG, I didn't notice your logo.

Sorry to disturb you searching for dependencies for applications 

anyways, I feel that there is no use in trying to expaling to someone who is not in a position to learn!!!!

so, am out of this


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> I answered that question thrice and still you ask the same.
> Is this what a n00b is like???
> asking same question again and again though the answer is presented???



I can see your frustration again  You were the one who claimed "stupid" journalists write about vista without even using them. 



> be it 120 or 12. It shows that it was the misunderstanding.



It shows they were stupid 



> PS: how old are you. coz if you aren't old enough to understand what business and marketing is, then it's not your mistake thinking Vista is bad.



Exactly..Its all marketing and a lame one at that. And you are right about the age thing, I am a kiddo and all people who are not, have accepted vista as the best OS ever 




> another classic example. You are thinking of vista in XP's point of view.
> Go ahead and stick to 486's!!!



Oh really ? I dint know XP ran on 486. Great going dude


----------



## Faun (Jul 31, 2008)

Jfk :d


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> LOLZ. What a n00b you are. I gave you a 10 page doc and all that you saw is Aero effects. Really man, I don't regret saying that iit's just hopeless explaining to someone like you.



By anchoring the link to Flip 3D and effects. And maybe I am blind, but I cant see anything on that 10 paged document that shows a significant benefit vista has over XP.



> OMG, I didn't notice your logo.


maybe you are blind too 



> Sorry to disturb you searching for dependencies for applications


Oh really ? But you said I am a noob. What do you mean by dependencies ? I dont know anything 



> anyways, I feel that there is no use in trying to expaling to someone who is not in a position to learn!!!!
> 
> so, am out of this


You are just running away because you have no answers. You are yet to tell me the benefits that vista has over XP.


----------



## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> You are yet to give me the benefits that vista has over XP.


1. Integrated system wide search.
2. Multiple grouping & viewing options in explorer.
3. A new breadcrumb styled explorer bar.
4. More secure.
5. WMC built-in.
6. Windows Defender (don't confuse it with 1 Care).
7. Better hardware support.
8. A revamped totally changed and enhanced Network Manager.
9. Sync Center.
10. WMP 11.
11. Power management optimized more than XP.
12. Windows Sideshow.
13. Backup & Restore center more powerful than that of XP.
14. UAC
15. Bitlocker encryption.
16. Parental Controls.
17. Windows Sidebar.

and the list continues ...


----------



## k6153r (Jul 31, 2008)

^^
Add to that,
Microsoft will like you more.
For XP users.... step-motherly treatment.


----------



## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

iMav said:


> 1. Integrated system wide search.
> 2. Multiple grouping & viewing options in explorer.
> 3. A new breadcrumb styled explorer bar.


All do-able on XP.



> 4. More secure.


Really ?



> 6. Windows Defender (don't confuse it with 1 Care).



Available for XP as well.



> 7. Better hardware support.


Joking right ? 



> 8. A revamped totally changed and enhanced Network Manager.


Enhanced ? in what sense ?


> 9. Sync Center.


Maybe



> 10. WMP 11.


Available on XP.


> > 11. Power management optimized more than XP.
> 
> 
> Yea..like a new interface
> ...


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## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

Pat said:


> All do-able on XP.
> 
> 
> Really ?
> ...


desiibond was right in everything he said about you. I just wasted my time. Sorry.


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## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

Dude, honestly tell me is it worth upgrading your machines and spending $$ for all these features that are do-able on XP ? If you say yes, its just a difference of opinion as I dont agree.


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## Faun (Jul 31, 2008)

@Desibond
come to the other side, it has revolutionized for desktop users.


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## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

T159 said:


> @Desibond
> come to the other side, it has revolutionized for desktop users.



No re...It is ok if you have to learn a few things for moving to vista, but its not ok to learn if you want to move to the other side


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## Faun (Jul 31, 2008)

k6153r said:


> ^^
> Add to that,
> Microsoft will like you more.
> For XP users.... step-motherly treatment.






Pat said:


> No re...It is ok if you have to learn a few things for moving to vista, but its not ok to learn if you want to move to the other side


some concepts are always stolen badly from open source  and rushed for commercial profit


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## chandru.in (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> "If you don't know how to use Vista, stay away from it and stop shouting that it is bad".


Ok I understand.  If some other OS is difficult to use, it is OS's fault.  If it is Windows I should not complain I must bang my head against wall and learn.



desiibond said:


> Explored Vista!!! hmm. Around Vista in 8 hours


Can I use Vista for 3 months to see if it is worth and then get a re-fund of my license fee if it sucks?  Or do they allow a trial version for 3 months??


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## narangz (Jul 31, 2008)

218 replies, 2,413 views & still going strong.


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh boy . This lame thread actually reached this lengths. Nice Absolutely stunning. Look at you all fighting like freaking three year olds.

Just had something to clear out. This "Mojave Experiment" is to clear out the FUD about Vista in the present consumers right. In that case let me quote a person who seems to be going apeshit on others.



> MS did agree that there was a problem and they fixed it. Look at Vista now, it's rocking. Seems like the author is stil living in 2007 January.


Vista came out with a half done product. It in plain words sucked big time. People obviously bought it expecting it to be able to teleport you to mars. Guess what? The First Impression backfired and people started hating it with more passion than pink polka dot pants. Whether you like it or not it was their own users who created this bad press. Don't call it FUD because these problems in some time did exist and piss off quite a few. You need not go nuts but over the fact that one person on this forum has  an Ubuntu icon as his avatar. So get over it. Linking to an article that pisses you off barely qualifies as a reason to taunt other users on this forum with it. You have a problem with the source go talk to the author.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> Ok I understand.  If some other OS is difficult to use, it is OS's fault.  If it is Windows I should not complain I must bang my head against wall and learn.
> Can I use Vista for 3 months to see if it is worth and then get a re-fund of my license fee if it sucks?  Or do they allow a trial version for 3 months??




I have two questions for you.

1) When was the last time that you used Vista?
2) What is the configuration of your PC?

answer these questions and I will tell you whether you will like Vista (if you try it with nothing in mind about it).

and btw, I have tried couple of times to use linux on my desktop. It doesn't recognize 50% of my hardware properly however I try.

though I get it right, it doesn't live upto the mark. Moreover, I am a gamer and you know I have a reason to stay off from linux on desk side.

On the other hand, I am a linux admin and when I step into office, I work only on linux. 99%.

I have winxp, linux and solaris workstations to use in office. And there, I feel that linux is the best for that work. 

Because the apps that I use (like apache, ssh etc) work better on linux.

What I say is that you should not rely on what others say. Start using it with nothing in your mind about it.

My home pc spec is in my signature. My primary task for home pc is pure multimedia and gaming. Nothing else. For that Vista suites best. For the first time I used vista on same pc without GPU (nvidia 6100 onboard) and 1Gig ram. had few issues for first 2-3 months. Then I installed all the driver updates etc and since then no issues. Only once it crashed after more than a year (first time I used OS for a year without formatting). I installed fresh copy of Vista and all the updates and this time it's even better. hardware is bonded even more to the OS.


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## Pat (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> and btw, I have tried couple of times to use linux on my desktop. It doesn't recognize 50% of my hardware properly however I try.



And did you ever try to get help from Linux experts on this forum? Or you just formed an opinion about it in 8 hours ?


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## chandru.in (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> 1) When was the last time that you used Vista?


I did not try it on my system for this reason.


> Can I use Vista for 3 months to see if it is worth and then get a re-fund of my license fee if it sucks? Or do they allow a trial version for 3 months??





desiibond said:


> 2) What is the configuration of your PC?


On several different laptop with RAM ranging from 1 GB to 3 GB.  With GPU mostly nVIDIA or Intel.  CPU some form of Intel Core 2 Duo.

On 1 GB RAM systems, it runs as fast as a pig even for normal operations (word processing, presentations, etc).  On 3 GB RAM systems, it is smooth as butter for normal operations.  But becomes a pig when Eclipse and JBoss are started at once without any other visible app running (except avast AV) and aero completely turned off.

On my home system running Ubuntu 8.04 with 2 GB ram, AMD dual core and on-board nVIDIA graphics, I run Firefox + Eclipse + JBoss + iReport + Rhythmbox + Pidgin + Compiz all at once and it shows no sign of slow down.

I buy only hardware known to work well with Linux.  But hey you have to do that for Vista too (even more difficult when you have to deal with hardware falsely labeled "Vista Capable")!!



desiibond said:


> and btw, I have tried couple of times to use linux on my desktop. It doesn't recognize 50% of my hardware properly however I try.


How many hours did you spend on learning it?  Not the commands needed for servers but the basic tips for desktop install (like choosing right hardware in a world filled with Windows only hardware for no fault of Linux).

*Note:* You can spend more than 30 days for learning Linux without having to pay a paisa to anyone unlike Vista.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

hmm. Why did it run like a butter on a 1Gb RAM on my PC with Athlon 64 2.2GHz and 6100 chipset? Magic??? 

No. 

You say that I can spend more than 30 days for learning linux. Okay. You tell me this:

1) Play Crysis and GRID

Tell me how to play them. OR show me games of that level.

2) An application like Vista media center where I can do everything related to multimedia.

3) Application like Dreamweaver to design webpages.

I do not say that linux sucks and that it shouldn't be used by anyone unlike those who try to spread the false rumors about Vista. if my friends want to use linux, I will be glad to help. I helped them during college projects and I do help them. But nobody is ready to try because they have the same problem that I have. Gaming and multimedia is certainly not linux's way.

YOu say that Vista gets slower on using more apps. There is a solution. Get a fast processor or add more RAM.

I say linux can't do gaming. What will you do? Ask me to stick to tux racing? 

You see. There is a way to make windows work but what about linux???

Anyways, lets keep this linux vs windows thing away from the discussion because it doesn't make any sense in this thread.

This thread is about Vista.


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## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> *Note:* You can spend more than 30 days for learning Linux without having to pay a paisa to anyone unlike Vista.


See that's where you're wrong, from the start itself. Get your self Vista from anywhere, install it on your system, use it for 30 days. Don't like it don't buy the license. It gives you 30 days to try. Stop making NOTES that are not true. Man I've become so polite.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^ thanks mate, forgot to answer that question. You rock


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## Kl@w-24 (Jul 31, 2008)

Can we stop the OS wars already? There's no end to it.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

The vista haters in the thread are proving that they actually never really tried Vista or tried to make it work.


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## amitava82 (Jul 31, 2008)

desiibond said:


> YOu say that Vista gets slower on using more apps. There is a solution. Get a fast processor or add more RAM.


WoW thats great! I have a Core2duo 2.4GHz laptop with 4GB RAM and you want me to add more processor power and RAM just to run Vista? What do you expect me to buy? A $4500 Alienware with Intel extreme and SLI 8800GTX? Vista FTW.

No thanks, I'll buy a Mac for all my web/graphics designing and a PS3 for gaming (not to forget I can run Ubuntu on it).  Its much cheaper and better. And whats more, I can buy a HD TV and still save some bucks.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

If you are unable to run Vista on 4Gb ram and on c2D 2.4GHz, tune it. 

This is not a problem with Vista. 

*Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair*. 

Check pcworld article about getting most out of vista (it's there in my earlier post).

Seriously, You just have to use it in the right way. that is exactly what MS is trying to teach


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## amitava82 (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh thats my fault now. How about you ask MS to fix their own problem instead of asking consumers to read some fking magazine and fix problem. I did not pay fking $150 to clean up their own mess. And you say "This is not a problem with Vista". Please an advice, get over it.


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## SunnyChahal (Jul 31, 2008)

Offtopic:I'm trying to install Vista on my rig with 'quite a good' Config and not being able to install due too ...........its greed for geeks!!Now,fed up with this SH!T,will I continue further or open the drawer,get my Vista Ultimate(Original) and pop it up into the DVD drive?
Ontopic:Windows is much easier and saves time!!!
PS:Here'I'm comparing Windows to Linux not Mac OS X


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> If you are unable to run Vista on 4Gb ram and on c2D 2.4GHz, tune it.
> 
> This is not a problem with Vista.
> 
> Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair.


Not to be mean but this is applicable in every operating system's. The only difference is you don't pay to be the scapegoat in Linux. But you do in Other Operating Systems.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> Oh thats my fault now. How about you ask MS to fix their own problem instead of asking consumers to read some fking magazine and fix problem. I did not pay fking $150 to clean up their own mess. And you say "This is not a problem with Vista". Please an advice, get over it.



LOLZ. you are not ready to read mag or article that helps to tune vista. And you want me to get over it. It doesn't make any sense. Right!!! Stop being a kid. 

You can't run Vista on Core2Duo 2.4GHz and 4Gb RAM. Even Linux Torvalds will die laughing!!!

ONE MORE EXAMPLE!!!!


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> LOLZ. you are not ready to read mag or article that helps to tune vista. And you want me to get over it. It doesn't make any sense. Right!!! Stop being a kid.
> 
> You can't run Vista on Core2Duo 2.4GHz and 4Gb RAM. Even Linux Torvalds will die laughing!!!
> 
> ONE MORE EXAMPLE!!!!


You don't seem to get it do you? He doesn't want to have to pay for un-installing all the crapware and then fine tune it for the experience. Also let me ask you one thing. Are you 100% sure that every single Laptop installs Vista without a problem? 

Oh by the way its not "Linux Torvalds" when you're using a name in a pun use it right.


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## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

@FilledVoid, if a vendor like Dell or HP bundles crapware and then promotes the laptop as a Vista laptop, the vendor is actually is wrong. It is not MS's fault that some company starts bundling stupid crapware with it's laptop. It does not mean Vista is bad because someone bundles crap with it. Crap taht you don't need and crap that messes the machine up.


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> @FilledVoid, if a vendor like Dell or HP bundles crapware and then promotes the laptop as a Vista laptop, the vendor is actually is wrong. It is not MS's fault that some company starts bundling stupid crapware with it's laptop. It does not mean Vista is bad because someone bundles crap with it. Crap taht you don't need and crap that messes the machine up.



And its not MS'es fault if they force a vendor to bundle a product, its not MS'es fault that there were kabillion errors in their product.  They should have probably taken the time to realize it and do something about it. 

Not to mention the real thing that pisses me off is the above poster somehow thinks that the users who don't use Vista is in some stone age.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

1) I know it's Linus Torvalds. 
2) if someone installs bloatware, who is responsible?? manufacturer or Microsoft??
3) If someone's not ready to tune up Vista by removing that bloatware, who is responsible?? Manufacturer or Vista or user??

Vista runs fine on thinkpadT43, HP workstation, assembled PC. It's not bundled Vista. It's my own Vista Home Premium. It's runs pretty fast without any problem. Why? coz I take good care of it and in return, it makes me happy by it's awesome multimedia power and visual appeal.


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## iMav (Jul 31, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> They should have probably taken the time to realize it and do something about it.


They have. From recent Ballmer emails it was clear that they are re-thinking the way they deal with the system manufacturers. Let's hope for the best. But, certainly it is unfair to blame MS and say Vista is bad because what you (not necessarily you) bought is loaded with crap already.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

FilledVoid said:


> And its not MS'es fault if they force a vendor to bundle a product, its not MS'es fault that there were kabillion errors in their product.  They should have probably taken the time to realize it and do something about it.
> 
> Not to mention the real thing that pisses me off is the above poster somehow thinks that the users who don't use Vista is in some stone age.



Here it comes again. The whole discussion is about users saying vista is bad without using it and users who say vista is bad without using it properly. 

The problems with Vista was in the early stages and still you are hanging to something that was there a year ago.

Damn!! Have to start all over again


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 31, 2008)

Haha.. this thread is still running???


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> 2) if someone installs bloatware, who is responsible?? manufacturer or Microsoft??


As Microsoft's product they should have probably done something to restrict that to a reasonable limit. I mean after all they don't seem to have problems in restricting other capabilities. For a person like you or some other expert like iMav this might be an easy task. How about those dozens of folk who just need email access. How about those people who wouldn't know what Crapware is from any other program. Are we now to condemn them because of Microsofts and Vendors inability to get their stupid right? You just criticized two people on this forum who from their posts show they aren't any toddlers at technology. So please as I said before ease your roll. Microsoft isn't your personal property theres no need to go aggressive about it. 



> 3) If someone's not ready to tune up Vista by removing that bloatware, who is responsible?? Manufacturer or Vista or user??


The answer is in the above post. No company should weasel its way out of its products performance. Thats how quality business is done. Xp is probably given with the same crapware. Why does it work better to some?  how about clearing that out.



> They have. From recent Ballmer emails it was clear that they are re-thinking the way they deal with the system manufacturers. Let's hope for the best. But, certainly it is unfair to blame MS and say Vista is bad because what you (not necessarily you) bought is loaded with crap already.


Thank you . At last someone isseeing what im trying to get across. I think AnandK said the same. There should be a limit on the crap they put on anyones system. The consumer shouldn't have to go through the process of re-installing anything to use someones product.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^If MS restrict that, again they will be blamed for monopoly, for cloing other to install s/w. MS can ask vendors to stop that buty they can't because there is an option to uninstall the bloatware.

how many times should I say that "Try to use Vista in proper way. Don't blame vista for everything". What can I say if someone having a powerful machine that can run Vista with just a  few of it's resources post that Vista is slow on his machine (due to some bloatware and hiccups that can be fixed) and hence it sucks without even trying to find out what is slowing down his machine and not trying to fix it. That is what irritates me.


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## axxo (Jul 31, 2008)

I got my HDD crashed today, developed bad sectors. It was running Vista till date(have another HDD running xp on dual boot). I won't blame vista for this coz after all its having only few disk thrashing services running in background. The chkdisk scheduled by vista os couldn't detect bad clusters but xp os did.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^ Hmm. now, this is a problem. Let me try to find out a solution for this.


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> how many times should I say that "Try to use Vista in proper way. Don't blame vista for everything". What can I say if someone having a powerful machine that can run Vista with just a few of it's resources post that Vista is slow on his machine (due to some bloatware and hiccups that can be fixed) and hence it sucks without even trying to find out what is slowing down his machine and not trying to fix it. That is what irritates me.



Heres the deal. Ill explain what I've trying to put in

1. Start 
2. Microsoft comes out with Vista 
3. Consumer goes "WOOOHOOOO I R BUYING VISTA" 
4. If customer bought Vista when it came out  
Then 


> The problems with Vista was in the early stages and still you are hanging to something that was there a year ago.


Else If User bought a new Laptop 


> It does not mean Vista is bad because someone bundles crap with it. Crap taht you don't need and crap that messes the machine up.


5.  In either case it ends up with same result.
6. *Bad Press* 
Please tell me someone sees what I'm trying to get through. 

I'm talking about the bad press. If Microsoft somehow comes over this Please FFS if you are restricting something, restrict the right thing. 



Conumer puts it on his desktop


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## SunnyChahal (Jul 31, 2008)

Phokz,Vista ain't gonna run on a PII machine with 256MB RAM and 64MB graphics.OK?
My classmates for an instance,have crappy PCs with 256MB RAM at most.No dedicated graphics cards whatsoever,although Vista runs on newer onboard graphic chipsets too.Those ignorant noobz think that P4 is the best processor and can't run Vista properly and are spreading rumors of P5 coming which will run vista properly.BUT...the thing is that those phuckerz don't have enough brains to run vista.They say Vista is crap and that is how rumors start to spread.These kinda noobs don't deserve to be alive.
I admit that Vista can become sluggish over time if not taken proper care of like updating AVs,defragmenting,surfing malious sites and such but once you get to know how the OS is to be handled,it's a piece of cake.
Direct X 10 is one of the best features in Vista.Gaming is such a delight!Now it's up to use the retired widows XP or the young charming Vista.Linux is good for work but multimedia and games suck big time!Mac OS X is great for everything except gaming.
Every OS has it's own pros and cons.Vista has an edge over the other with gaming compatibility but gradual sluggishness,temp files,being prone virus are keeping the crown of the best OS from it.Moreover lack of some features which need to be there.


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## desiibond (Jul 31, 2008)

@@FilledVoid,

 Wow. What an analysis. You should really be in the press. Pick up the words that you want and supress other words.

Dude.

1) Buy a laptop
2) Install Vista from scratch or tune preinstalled OS
3) Have a nice time with Vista.

Yes, we are blaming media coz when the problem wasn't really with Vista now, it's still being circulated that Vista runs slow whatever the machine is.

So, please stop doing "Director's cut"


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## FilledVoid (Jul 31, 2008)

> @@FilledVoid,
> 
> Wow. What an analysis. You should really be in the press. Pick up the words that you want and supress other words.
> 
> ...



Before you comment about my posting skill maybe you should take time to read all of my posts. I have maintained the same thing all along. That the bad press was a creation of the same Windows User base. Not that of Anti-MS Fanboys or MacBoys or Anti-Ms people. Which is basically a result of what I posted above. You may like it or not but thats your issue not mine.


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## Faun (Jul 31, 2008)

K there was this little case with me.
My HDD was dying out windows refused to recover data(some naming errors, copying stops at that). Then I took backup using Ubuntu, and guess what it did it in one go 
Second instance was when deleted all partitions in a HDD and tried to install Windows (98, 2000, xp and even Vista), they all failed. This time too Ubuntu got installed
One thing that pisses me is the poor linux support by G965 chipset. It has bios bug, but still newer linux versions work well.
The adamant nature of windows to be on first HDD is also a hopeless problem.

No wonder i miss dreamweaver, photoshop but found GIMP, stopped pirating softwares. Visit my blog an you will know that still i can design things well using linux.

Gaming, yes its a big no. I was a hardcore gamer. But exponential hardware upgrade with each game now keeps me away from games. Its good for productivity too and less eye-ear damage. Of course i learned new things too.


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## chandru.in (Aug 1, 2008)

iMav said:


> See that's where you're wrong, from the start itself. Get your self Vista from anywhere, install it on your system, use it for 30 days. Don't like it don't buy the license. It gives you 30 days to try. Stop making NOTES that are not true. Man I've become so polite.


Didn't I say *more* than 30 days??  

In 30 days we have just 8 full days (weekends) to test Vista, that too, if I sacrifice my weekend fun just to try and love an OS.



desiibond said:


> hmm. Why did it run like a butter on a 1Gb RAM on my PC with Athlon 64 2.2GHz and 6100 chipset? Magic???


Either magic orextreme hardwork from your side to make it work.  If I put same amount of time in configuring my Ubuntu box, I can get a super fast system with even more RAM left for apps.  



desiibond said:


> 1) Play Crysis and GRID
> 
> Tell me how to play them. OR show me games of that level.
> 
> ...


These are not fault of Linux.  Anyway why should I use Vista to run these?  They run fine on XP too.



desiibond said:


> YOu say that Vista gets slower on using more apps. There is a solution. Get a fast processor or add more RAM.


When did Vista start supporting more than 3 GB of RAM??


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## iMav (Aug 1, 2008)

After a nice movie like Mummy 3, your comment just completes a nice week. Please do keep making such absurd irrational comments, keeps poeple like me and others hooked on to the forums.


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## tarey_g (Aug 1, 2008)

chandru.in said:


> Didn't I say *more* than 30 days??
> 
> In 30 days we have just 8 full days (weekends) to test Vista, that too, if I sacrifice my weekend fun just to try and love an OS.


 
Strange... you got time to criticize it ! 
Mad world...


@Manan, How was the movie ?


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## iMav (Aug 1, 2008)

[offtopic] Mummy 3

Missed Rachel Weisz. Other than that the movie is nice. Still makes you want more Mummy Action. Johannthan has a bar in China named as - Himohtep. 

[/offtopic]


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## SunnyChahal (Aug 1, 2008)

Gus one offtopic question here.On Vista 32-Bit I'm gettign BSDOs due to 4GB RAM.Will Updating to SP1 solve this issue?
SP1 is not there in automatic updates.How come?
Thank You


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## iMav (Aug 1, 2008)

Windows Vista Service Pack 1 is not available for installation from Windows Update and is not offered by Automatic Updates

Also read this: *www.chotocheeta.com/2008/03/16/windows-vista-sp1-hits-windows-auto-update/

Next time, please start a topic in the Software Troubleshooting section and don't use such font formatting, makes you look your age. About the RAM, update to SP1.


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## SunnyChahal (Aug 1, 2008)

Thanks and please keep the 'age' and stuff away.I posted 'please reply soon' in bold to get some attention and to divert a mind or two towards this update problem from OS wars.


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2008)

When Vista first came out, I was the one who was advocating how much better it is than Vista. I got two of the office computers on Vista, as I did my home computer. And I liked it for a month or so. Then suddenly one realises that the whole thing is not worth it. There's not much that I can do with Vista that I can't do with XP. So why make up for that performance loss? So now I'm running XP at home, much to the pleasure of my family (*which btw, has no idea what Vista is about, yet they hated it from day 1*). 

Even 1 day is not good enough to know what Vista is about.

*I have not yet tried it with SP1 so please excuse me on that part.


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