# Microsoft gives up trying and starts blatantly copying...



## aryayush (Dec 20, 2006)

*Microsoft gives up trying and starts blatantly copying…*​
John Gruber just made quite an interesting post/find on his site about how Microsoft has straight copied Apple’s Workgroup Manager Icon.

Here’s a screenshot of Microsoft’s page with the icon:

*www.theappleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/microworkgroup.jpg​
The page this is on is here (click the Buy Now button).

*www.theappleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/appleworkgroup.jpg​
Then check out the icon on Apple’s OS X Server page (towards the bottom).

This is way more than “inspiration” here. This is some kid at Microsoft going to the Apple site, saving the image to the Microsoft server, and then bragging to his boss that he just whipped up the icon. Pathetic.

*UPDATE:* It would seem Microsoft have swapped out the icon…what a surprise.

________________________

Source: Microsoft gives up trying and starts blatantly copying… at  The Apple Blog


I know this should have been in the 'News' section but such topics usually spark off a debate, therefore, I posted it here. Mods, please move it if it is inappropriate. As for the Microsoft defenders, what have you to say? Copying features from an operating system is one thing, but ripping off your opponents icons! Sheesh!


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## krazyfrog (Dec 20, 2006)

I must say this John Gruber guy has some great observation skills. 
Btw, i think this thread would be better off in News section. I don't think anyone would come to fight for Microsoft after seeing this.


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## ~Phenom~ (Dec 21, 2006)

His site says that MS has replaced that icon now. I really wonder whether  that icon was really there and MS has replaced it now or it was just a rumour by John.


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## aryayush (Dec 21, 2006)

This was all over the internet. And the screenshot proves it too.


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## ~Phenom~ (Dec 21, 2006)

if it was all over the internet , then its ok  coz the pic can be tampered.


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## aryayush (Dec 21, 2006)

I know the pic can be tampered with. BTW, if you visit the source I mentioned, you'll see that the update about MS changing the icon was posted at a much later date than the original post. Plus, if you read the comments, it becomes quite obvious that readers have seen it too.


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## ~Phenom~ (Dec 21, 2006)

I have accepted ur point buddy. I m no MS fan.


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## aryayush (Dec 21, 2006)

Yeah, I can see your sig.


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## Kiran.dks (Dec 21, 2006)

Some are so much anti-microsoft that they just see world from their own view. What the big deal in this issue? Work manager icons are not designed by either apple nor microsoft. It is a 3rd party development. It has been long time in use. Possible that the 3rd party vendor may have given the same icon accidently. Don't make a BIG mess-up of these kinda small issues. All I would say, this as a 'childish' act.


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## Aberforth (Dec 21, 2006)

Marketing and page designs (including Icons) are done by the respective department and often by third parties. If a method worked why can't any company use that technique to sell their products. It is not like Windows Vista is a carbon copy of OS X Leopard or Microsoft is phising Apple's site. Its just an inspiration and a matching icon, what the fight is all about, come on its only an icon.


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## aryayush (Dec 21, 2006)

That icon was developed by Apple's designers in Apple's labs. There is no third-party involvement here. And it is not a matching icon, it is the SAME icon. I am not fighting or anything - it is just a goof-up by Microsoft that I reported. And had it no been of any significance, Microsoft would not have removed that icon. Apple has been using that icon for more than three years.
Please do not jump at the slightest aspersion cast at Microsoft! What is true will remain true. As for Windows Vista, yes it is not a carbon copy of Mac OS X and it can never hope to be either.


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## Aberforth (Dec 21, 2006)

In that case I think this is a topic worth in the Chit Chat or News forum, not exactly a fight worthy topic.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 21, 2006)

aryayush said:
			
		

> That icon was developed by Apple's designers in Apple's labs. There is no third-party involvement here.


 hmm

chuk it...whose gonna say again


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## aryayush (Dec 22, 2006)

Could you be a bit more clear, please?


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## gxsaurav (Dec 22, 2006)

nah....


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## aryayush (Feb 15, 2007)

It was one thing to copy an icon on their website. It is a totally different thing, however, to incorporate a ripped-off icon into their mobile operating system. See this:

*img76.imageshack.us/img76/4927/01425sz1i15240700gc5.jpg

And now see this:

*img69.imageshack.us/img69/918/isyncfq4.png

Notice something similar? The picture above is of Windows Mobile 6.0 and the one below is of Apple's iSync icon. It is copied and pasted. If you cannot ask your designers to make an original icon, it really is no surprise that Vista is a rip-off of OS X.

Source
__________
BTW, that globe icon is also a straightaway rip-off of this icon of the OmniWeb browser:

*img151.imageshack.us/img151/2826/omniwebma4.png


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## aceman (Feb 15, 2007)

My god, the apple fan-boys have nothing else to say about the os and are left with commenting about some Icon usage....how funny 
          and tying some icon usage to vista os development .............these kinds of comments can only come from apple fan boys, since as usual they look at only the glossy exterior and forget about anything else that works inside .Vista is radical improvement when compared with any other windows os..............give it some time to stabilize.


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## subratabera (Feb 15, 2007)

aceman said:
			
		

> My god, the apple fan-boys have nothing else to say about the os and are left with commenting about some Icon usage....how funny
> and tying some icon usage to vista os development .............these kinds of comments can only come from apple fan boys, since as usual they look at only the glossy exterior and forget about anything else that works inside .Vista is radical improvement when compared with any other windows os..............give it some time to stabilize.


 I am not a Mac user or fanboy but I can say that you must agree that M$ indeed done something which is not so professional...


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## gxsaurav (Feb 15, 2007)

aceman said:
			
		

> My god, the apple fan-boys have nothing else to say about the os and are left with commenting about some Icon usage....how funny
> and tying some icon usage to vista os development .............these kinds of comments can only come from apple fan boys, since as usual they look at only the glossy exterior and forget about anything else that works inside .Vista is radical improvement when compared with any other windows os..............give it some time to stabilize.


 
That is why they are called macboys, an Icon is an Icon, should I say how many icons apple copied from Rocky & Marvilla....

The problem is not with Apple hardware & Software, it's with there Marketing methods & macboys arrogence. Sometimes i think with every mac they buy, they get paid for posting anti-MS rants,......it's been said many times by Admins here, to use whatever they like & shut up, but still they don't leave a chance to whine.....

even linux users don't like MS for many things, but the best thing about them is that they know here they lack & admit it, & atleast they never whine about linux like macboys do

(hides under the rock.....attack coming from apple camp )


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## eddie (Feb 16, 2007)

As I have said earlier, Mac camp should be the last one in this world to talk about copying. An OS that is built by "blatantly copying" Open source code and gives back nothing should not even talk about such things. First people should look at themselves and then point finger at others. This is just an icon...if you hold the copyright...go ahead...sue them. If you can't do that, then just keep silent


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## freebird (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ Wow Agree!MAc boys...hi


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## led_shankar (Feb 16, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> BTW, that globe icon is also a straightaway rip-off of this icon of the OmniWeb browser:
> 
> *img151.imageshack.us/img151/2826/omniwebma4.png



Now the globe is also copyrighted?


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## aryayush (Feb 16, 2007)

I knew someone would say this. Look at the two images. They have exactly the same angle of the globe with the light falling from the same point on it and forming the same reflection.

@eddie, I don't know much about this but Darwin is an open source operating system developed by Apple. That is their contribution to the community.
And Apple has never copied icons from other companies. Copying such trivial things such as icons by high profile companies like Microsoft is shameful IMHO. It is not about how little a thing it is, it is about what this conveys about Microsoft's mentality.

Nowadays, gx_saurav's sole job seems to be telling others about 'macboys' and nothing more.


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## gxsaurav (Feb 16, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> As I have said earlier, Mac camp should be the last one in this world to talk about copying. An OS that is built by "blatantly copying" Open source code and gives back nothing should not even talk about such things. First people should look at themselves and then point finger at others. This is just an icon...if you hold the copyright...go ahead...sue them. If you can't do that, then just keep silent


 
well said 



			
				arya said:
			
		

> I don't know much about this but Darwin is an open source operating system developed by Apple. That is their contribution to the community.


 
Open Source  last i saw apple clsoed the source of the darwin core...if it was given to the community, then we would be having Mac on any X86 PC out there....get your facts right



> Nowadays, gx_saurav's sole job seems to be telling others about 'macboys' and nothing more


 
Yup , informing them so that they don't take macboys seriously, say something & get banned. Whats the problem in telling someone to be cautious of macboys, it's not like macboys don't whine


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## aryayush (Feb 16, 2007)

Social worker extraordinaire is here to save the day. Drum roll please!


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## freebird (Feb 17, 2007)

I can see that they are offering darwin d/ls for both ppc and intel on their site @
*www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
but i know they shutdown this project..


> On July 25, 2006, the OpenDarwin team announced that the project was shutting down, as they felt OpenDarwin had "become a mere hosting facility for Mac OS X related projects," and that the efforts to create a stand-alone Darwin OS had failed. They also state: "Availability of sources, interaction with Apple representatives, difficulty building and tracking sources, and a lack of interest from the community have all contributed to this."


 *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDarwin
I doubt what they return to open source commty after grabbing  a lot from FreeBSD and more.


> _"_Yahoo_ has a story about how Apple is using non-GPL'd open source software, making proprietary extensions, and giving nothing back to the community. 'Apple simply found a source of cheap high-quality systems software that it could make its own without needing to give back so much as a bug fix, let alone useful software projects.' Good stuff."_


*slashdot.org/apple/01/05/02/222239.shtml


> Apple has taken plenty and given nothing back, exactly as it's entitled.  Beyond that, we read that Apple's behavior may even be hurting the Open Source community at large.


*www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-02-012-20-OP-BD


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> @eddie, I don't know much about this but Darwin is an open source operating system developed by Apple. That is their contribution to the community.


Don't be too happy about Darwin. It is not Apple's "contribution" rather it is their compulsion. They have to open the code they use from OSS and that is what you see in Darwin. You show me Apple submitting patches or the changes they make to code of Konqueror, BSD or million other things and I will accept that they contribute to Open Source.


> And Apple has never copied icons from other companies. Copying such trivial things such as icons by high profile companies like Microsoft is shameful IMHO. It is not about how little a thing it is, it is about what this conveys about Microsoft's mentality.


So you are telling me that it is ok for Apple to copy code which is not "trivial" while it is not ok for Microsoft to copy Apple's icon...even though it is trivial? So copying OS back bones is fine while trivial things is bad? What kind of logic is that?


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## aryayush (Feb 17, 2007)

AFAIK, the GPL allows you to use the source code anyway you want. So, if Apple uses it, what are they doing wrong?


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> AFAIK, the GPL allows you to use the source code anyway you want. So, if Apple uses it, what are they doing wrong?


 Sometime back I replied to a similar comment from one of your buddies with this statement...


> *It is as simple as taking fruits from a tree in a free land. Taking fruits from a tree is not illegal and they are free as well, but the ethical thing to do is to give something back to the tree. You water the tree or give some fertilizers now and then. That is all the tree wants...if you can't do that...the tree will not sue you but you are still a pathetic leech man...*


In any case, if you yourself are copying...don't crib about others doing the same to you. If you have some rights over the stuff that others copied from you...go ahead and sue them but don't cry about it.


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## gxsaurav (Feb 17, 2007)

arya said:
			
		

> Social worker extraordinaire is here to save the day. Drum roll please!



Thank u, thank u , :flying kisses.....i love u all fans 



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> AFAIK, the GPL allows you to use the source code anyway you want. So, if Apple uses it, what are they doing wrong?


Sometimes I pity on your knowledge Arya, I m no Linux guru, but I know one thing. GPL means contributing to the source code freely available, if you are taking it...modifying it, & using it, then according to the GPL you are supposed to give it back to the community & make it freely available.

m i right eddie?

So far, what do we see.....well, Apple giving nothing back to open source community. Not even the Quicktime Engine, that alone can solve 80% of the Linux Multimedia problems...but hey, like i said, it's ok if Apple copies


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## rajasekharan (Feb 17, 2007)

yeah if apple can give quicktime it will solve a lot of problem in Linux . but hey i want photoshop first . WHEN is that coming ???. please dont talk about gimp it does not match photoshop . sorry for being off topic . but i feel a lot of people trying to destroy Linux


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## freebird (Feb 17, 2007)

APPLE giving out quicktime to GNU ppl?never in next 50 yrs..@least.
@gxsaurav:it seems Windows Live spaces contains lot of anti-M$ things... why no one from microsoft hearing? 
example link:
*use-linux.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?_c02_owner=1


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## gxsaurav (Feb 17, 2007)

freebird said:
			
		

> APPLE giving out quicktime to GNU ppl?never in next 50 yrs..@least.
> @gxsaurav:it seems Windows Live spaces contains lot of anti-M$ things... why no one from microsoft hearing?
> example link:
> *use-linux.spaces.live.com/default.aspx?_c02_owner=1


Well....said

About Windows Live spaces.....welll it's a blog man, anyone can write what they want. Even Anti-MS things

by the way, do leave feedback on the blog if u like it


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## borg (Feb 17, 2007)

hmmm. No matter what anyone might say, copying such trivial things such as icons is shameful to say the least. This is not good.


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## aryayush (Feb 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sometimes I pity on your knowledge Arya, I m no Linux guru, but I know one thing. GPL means contributing to the source code freely available, if you are taking it...modifying it, & using it, then according to the GPL you are supposed to give it back to the community & make it freely available.


I read the excerpts from the GPL in Fast Track to Open Source and it was clearly stated that you can modify the freely available source code and sell it at a premium. Please learn to STFU when you do not have adequate knowledge of a subject!

eddie, why do you keep saying that Apple should stop doing this and that. It is not Apple but people like me and others who post on blogs who've noted Microsoft copying these icons. Apple is not crying foul about it.

And why would Apple ever release essential core components like the QuickTime Engine to the public!  They are not a non-profit organisation out there to do some charity. How can you even expect Apple to help the competition? That is just plain ridiculous.

And taking something from the open source community is not copying. If the developer did not want it to be implemented elsewhere, he should not have opened the source in the first place.


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> . You show me Apple submitting patches or the changes they make to code of Konqueror, BSD or million other things and I will accept that they contribute to Open Source.




*Webkit*
www.webkit.org

Welcome to the website for the WebKit Open Source Project!
WebKit is an open source web browser engine. WebKit is also the name of the Mac OS X system framework version of the engine that's used by Safari, Dashboard, Mail, and many other OS X applications. WebKit's HTML and JavaScript code began as a branch of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE. This website is also the home of S60's S60 WebKit development.


*webkit.org/blog/?p=44

_As a thank you, we are giving MacBook Pro computers to twelve of our top contributors. We’ve also invited five of them to attend Apple’s Worldwide Developer’s Conference 2006 “on Apple’s dime”._






*MKLinux project*
www.mklinux.org

MkLinux is a project begun by the OSF Research Institute (now Silicomp RI) and Apple Computer to port Linux, a freely distributed UNIX-like operating system, to a variety of Power Macintosh platforms running on top of OSF Research Institute's implementation of the Mach microkernel.



Webkit has been ported to Symbian 3rd edition, as well. It's the default browser on Nokia Symbian 9.1 phones. THe KHTML engine would have been so popular if it hadn't been for Apple. They actively maintain the Webkit project, and even helped in porting webkit to the S60 platform, despite it being a competitor to their upcoming phone.

To cut it short, the browser on the iPhone and S60 are almost the same thing.

Also, from next time, I would appreciate if you take names, and not make vague references.

Some people have mentioned about Darwin being 'close source'. They have not GPLed a part of it. Misinformed people may read this post *www.macnn.com/articles/06/02/24/darwin.for.x86.limits/


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## gxsaurav (Feb 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> I read the excerpts from the GPL in Fast Track to Open Source and it was clearly stated that you can modify the freely available source code and sell it at a premium. Please *learn to STFU* when you do not have adequate knowledge of a subject!


Comment 1, again

Go read again, GPL states that you can modify the code & sale it at a premium,but *u have to open the code for everyone too*.....Apple is not doing it & violating the GPL rules



			
				arya said:
			
		

> And why would Apple ever release essential core components like the QuickTime Engine to the public!  They are not a non-profit organisation out there to do some charity. How can you even expect Apple to help the competition? That is just plain ridiculous.


hmm....iTunes, oh wait, ipod is alive due to *Windows* so iTunes on Windows is required.

Quicktime , oh wait, Quikctime is required in many multimedia apps running on *Windows*, & guess what both iTunes & Quicktime are available for Windows *FREE*. So why can't they provide the player for *free for Linux *too? by the way, have u heard of Quicktime Alternative for Windows?

Hey, what is this thread about, Apple or Apple depending on MS for everything

i m not a lawer, but I find no reason why they can't do it. When other companies such as Real Media has given there source code as Helix player for Linux from a long time. They can simply give a free "player" app for Linux. No need to release the pro version for linux if they don't want to.



> And taking something from the open source community is not copying. If the developer did not want it to be implemented elsewhere, he should not have opened the source in the first place


.

:ROFL.....chotu, to mut bol yaar, teri knowledge is really limited


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Quicktime , oh wait, Quikctime is required in many multimedia apps running on *Windows*, & guess what both iTunes & Quicktime are available for Windows *FREE*. So why can't they provide the player for *free for Linux *too? by the way, have u heard of Quicktime Alternative for Windows?



Why is there no Windows Media player for Linux? Why is there no Zune marketplace for Linux?


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## gxsaurav (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> Why is there no Windows Media player for Linux? Why is there no Zune marketplace for Linux?



Windows Media Player Win32 codecs can be used in Linux too.....with any player in Linux. But Quicktime technologoy cannot be used in linux at all. Atleast MS is a bit open in this regard

Zune market place for linux....well, it's just relesed 4 months ago. If they find a market they will release it. By the way, i never said anything about Itunes music store in linux, did I?


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> eddie, why do you keep saying that Apple should stop doing this and that. It is not Apple but people like me and others who post on blogs who've noted Microsoft copying these icons. Apple is not crying foul about it.


Then why are you doing it anyways? I don't see you doing it when Apple does the same to other Open Source projects.


> And taking something from the open source community is not copying. If the developer did not want it to be implemented elsewhere, he should not have opened the source in the first place.


 You know how you sound?
*Mac Fan:* Hey you know what? Microsoft just copied *A WHOLE ICON* of Apple!!! Man Microsoft is so sick...and Apple is so l33t!!! Apple rules mahn!
*The listener:* Hey that is so bad. Wait a second...isn't Apple the same company that copied the kernel, printing engine, browser engine and what not from some other place?
*Mac Fan:* Ermm...uhh...ahhh...uhhh...hey STFU ok! That is not copying!!! Microsoft copied a *WHOLE ICON* damn it...
*The listener:* Oh well...yeah ok...


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Windows Media Player Win32 codecs can be used in Linux too.....with any player in Linux. But Quicktime technologoy cannot be used in linux at all. Atleast MS is a bit open in this regard
> 
> Zune market place for linux....well, it's just relesed 4 months ago. If they find a market they will release it. By the way, i never said anything about Itunes music store in linux, did I?



WMV9 DRMed codecs can be used in Linux? Whom are you fooling?

Also, can you link me to these Windows Media codecs which play in Linux? I'll install them on Slack right away.


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## led_shankar (Feb 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> I read the excerpts from the GPL in Fast Track to Open Source and it was clearly stated that you can modify the freely available source code and sell it at a premium.



I don't want to join in the (extremely boring) fight between you two losers, but please read the GPL... just for fun. I assure you that it is a very interesting read.


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## aryayush (Feb 17, 2007)

@gx_saurav, Oh, so we should only talk about the point you mention, should we?

Apple does not see a large target market and therefore, iPod, iTunes and QuickTime are not compatible with Linux.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> *WebKit's HTML and JavaScript code began as a branch of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE.*


You just want to prove that Apple copied something from KDE?  How is webkit helping the parent Open Source projects like KDE again? Till Konqueror 3.5.6 there are nil patches from Apple in the parent tree. Go and grep Konqueror source if you don't believe me. Webkit is just an attempt by Apple to get development done by OSS developers and then put it in their own browser...just like the way the have always done. I don't see how it is helping parent OSS organizations. May be you could enlighten me?


> _As a thank you, we are giving MacBook Pro computers to twelve of our top contributors. We’ve also invited five of them to attend Apple’s Worldwide Developer’s Conference 2006 “on Apple’s dime”._


Giving Mac Book pros to people who develop for them is helping companies like BSD, KDE, CUPS? How?


> *MKLinux project*
> www.mklinux.org


Do you want me to point-and-laugh at you? mklinux was started in 1998, is in its R1 and has no releases since 2000!!! (They just tweaked their CD image in 2005.) Do I need to say more about their contribution to Open Source?


> THe KHTML engine would have been so popular if it hadn't been for Apple.


Yes Konqueror exists because it was made popular on Apple platforms. You have excellent logic...suited for a Mac fanboy.


> Also, from next time, I would appreciate if you take names, and not make vague references.


If I did that...you'll be the first one running to your admin friends saying that you have been "personally commented" on and the rest as they will be history


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## mehulved (Feb 17, 2007)

Here's something you'll need to read first before arguing
BSD License - *www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
GPL License - *www.opensource.org/licenses/gpl-license.php
Many softwares, including the kernel, is under BSD License. And open source doesn't end at GPL.


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## Aberforth (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> WMV9 DRMed codecs can be used in Linux? Whom are you fooling?
> 
> Also, can you link me to these Windows Media codecs which play in Linux? I'll install them on Slack right away.



Well packman repositories have codecs for a few popular distros which enable Linux to play win32 codecs. 

The link - *mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/packman/

Don't know about Slackware though.


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> Webkit is just an attempt by Apple to get development done by OSS developers and then put it in their own browser...just like the way the have always done. I don't see how it is helping parent OSS organizations. May be you could enlighten me?



They have helped OSS developers get a browser on Symbian 9.1, the OS that runs on the new Nokia smartphones. Mass acceptability of his/her software is one of the dreams of every OSS developer, isn't it? Atleast, Apple does not go out and threaten to sue Linux for 'infringing on patents' like our very good friends in Redmond, Washington do.




> Do you want me to point-and-laugh at you? mklinux was started in 1998, is in its R1 and has no releases since 2000!!! (They just tweaked their CD image in 2005.) Do I need to say more about their contribution to Open Source?



You asked me for a single contribution. I gave it to you. Whether you want to laugh at me, or you want to cry, is entirely upto you.



> Yes Konqueror exists because it was made popular on Apple platforms. You have excellent logic...suited for a Mac fanboy.



Typical Mac hater response. I talked about the KHTML engine, and not Konqueror. Yes, it has been made popular by Apple's efforts Why you may ask? Because, the  hundreds of millions of Symbian 9.1 phones that Nokia will sell will have Webkit installed on them. There will be millions and millions of executives, students, housewives etc accessing internet on a browser, based on the KHTML engine.

I couldn't have imagined the KHTML engine getting so popular on its own.

Finally, here is what digitadmin had to say about you. *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=337172#post337172



> I am disappointed in the way Eddie behaved: you seem very intelligent, yet stoop to trying your best to irritate people to win arguments, instead of just stating facts.
> 
> 
> People like Eddie are usually quite adept at pissing others off. They thrive on that sort of thing.



Enough said.


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## praka123 (Feb 17, 2007)

win32codecs are long available for Linux,though the legal stand is not clear.
*www.usinglinux.org/multimedia/win32-codecs.html


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

Aberforth said:
			
		

> Well packman repositories have codecs for a few popular distros which enable Linux to play win32 codecs.
> 
> The link - *mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/packman/
> 
> Don't know about Slackware though.





> win32codecs are long available for Linux,though the legal stand is not clear.
> *www.usinglinux.org/multimedia/win32-codecs.html



Thanks for the links


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> They have helped OSS developers get a browser on Symbian 9.1, the OS that runs on the new Nokia smartphones. Mass acceptability of his/her software is one of the dreams of every OSS developer, isn't it?


Ermm...and that helps BSD, KDE and CUPS how?  Apple's dream is not to help anyone but to get finished code that they can include in their browser for FREE! That is it. No OpenSource dreams.


> Atleast, Apple does not go out and threaten to sue Linux for 'infringing on patents' like our very good friends in Redmond, Washington do.


...and your point is?


> You asked me for a single contribution. I gave it to you. Whether you want to laugh at me, or you want to cry, is entirely upto you.


Yes and that was a contribution..How? It helped which product become better or even worth using?


> Typical Mac hater response. I talked about the KHTML engine, and not Konqueror. Yes, it has been made popular by Apple's efforts Why you may ask? Because, the  hundreds of millions of Symbian 9.1 phones that Nokia will sell will have Webkit installed on them. I couldn't have imagined Konqueror getting so popular on its own.


KHTML engine was MADE FOR Konqueror. Apple just copied it down...not for the betterment of the parent browser but for their own. They are not helping any parent Open Source project but themselves. Konqueror was, is and will do fine without Apple but that doesn't change the fact that Apple are pathetic leeches and their users are sorry whiners who crib about little icons 


> Finally, here is what digitadmin had to say about you. *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=337172#post337172
> Enough said.


 Didn't I already talk about you and your admin friends?


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> Ermm...and that helps BSD, KDE and CUPS how?


I never talked about BSD or CUPS! You seem to live in a idealistic world, in which everyone is perfectly honest. The real world is not like that. We're talking about huge multinationals, whose only aim is to extract the last penny from you. It's true in the case of Apple, Microsoft and all other companies, especially American ones, which are truly capitalistic in nature.



> KHTML engine was MADE FOR Konqueror. Apple just copied it down...not for the betterment of the parent browser but for their own. They are not helping any parent Open Source project but themselves. Konqueror was, is and will do fine without Apple but that doesn't change the fact that Apple are pathetic leeches and their users are sorry whiners who crib about little icons



I'll ignore your little pick on Apple here. Yes, Apple based its browser on Konqueror. They never helped Konqueror. But, they helped the development of Webkit on S60. Thanks for ignoring that part of my post.

It's sad that you associate people's personality with the computer they use. I don't see how Linux users are superior to Windows users or how Windows users are superior to Linux or Mac users or how Mac users are superior to the users of any other god damned Operating system!

I'm a student, who uses a Macintosh. What's so wrong about it? What's so special about using Linux?

Hell, I dual boot Slackintosh and OS X. I find both good. 

The whiner in this case is evident.


> Didn't I already talk about you and your admin friends?



Yes, you did. But, that doesn't change facts, does it? You conveniently ignored facts in this very thread.

Self introspection is not such a bad term. Read more about it.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> I never talked about BSD or CUPS! You seem to live in a idealistic world, in which everyone is perfectly honest. The real world is not like that. We're talking about huge multinationals, whose only aim is to extract the last penny from you. It's true in the case of Apple, Microsoft and all other companies, especially American ones, which are truly capitalistic in nature.


Teach this "world is not ideal" theory to the thread starter & yourself, rather than me. You and the thread starter are the only ones who are always creating noise about how Microsoft "copied" something from Apple. If you really believe that people are not honest then why even bother starting threads that go against your own belief? As far as I am concerned, I didn't even care replying to this thread two months ago, when it was started, as it has become a habit of Mac users in here to create an issue about everything that has the word "Mac" in it but I just couldn't resist on this icon thing.


> I'll ignore your little pick on Apple here. Yes, Apple based its browser on Konqueror. They never helped Konqueror. But, they helped the development of Webkit on S60. Thanks for ignoring that part of my post.


The point of this thread is "copying" and you are the only one who is ignoring the very essence of the thread.


> It's sad that you associate people's personality with the computer they use. I don't see how Linux users are superior to Windows users or how Windows users are superior to Linux or Mac users or how Mac users are superior to the users of any other god damned Operating system!


I don't associate people's personality with the OS they use but I do associate their behaviour with their personalities and the way Mac users behave on the forum...I will not be alone on this. If you want to establish that fact...go on...create a poll and ask what people in here feel about Mac users and their behaviour. Do include an option that says "whiners" and see the results with your own eyes 


> I'm a student, who uses a Macintosh. What's so wrong about it? What's so special about using Linux?


Nothing! ...and I have not even talked about these things in any of my posts but clearly you miss the point of this thread. I would recommend reading it from start...this time, slowly 


> The whiner in this case is evident.


To everyone my friend...to everyone 


> Yes, you did. But, that doesn't change facts, does it? You conveniently ignored facts in this very thread.


That is a funny comment from someone who ignored the very essence of the thread 


> Self introspection is not such a bad term. Read more about it.


 I am sure you will need the sources of that reading after "the poll"? If you want, I can pass you some internet links for it


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> Teach this "world is not ideal" theory to the thread starter & yourself, rather than me. You and the thread starter are the only ones who are always creating noise about how Microsoft "copied" something from Apple.



Can you PLEASE link to my post in this thread where i said that Microsoft copied Apple? Can you show me posts where I created 'noise' about Microsoft copying Apple?

As for my stance on the issue, I think it's just a silly error by a over-enthusiastic graphics guy. It's not some one copying some one else, it's just an error, which was pointed out by a couple of tech blogs in a humourous way.

I would request you to reply to this post. 

PLEASE!
__________


			
				eddie said:
			
		

> The point of this thread is "copying" and you are the only one who is ignoring the very essence of the thread.



I only replied to to your post to mention what I thought of Apple's contribution to OSS . You are the one who assumed that I feel some one copied some one. Software companies are known to copy each other. What's new in that?



> I don't associate people's personality with the OS they use but I do associate their behaviour with their personalities and the way Mac users behave on the forum...I will not be alone on this. If you want to establish that fact...go on...create a poll and ask what people in here feel about Mac users and their behaviour.



Yes, please do check my previous posts on this forum. This will clear your 'behaviour' point.




> I am sure you will need the sources of that reading after "the poll"? If you want, I can pass you some internet links for it



I am a person who always tries to correct what is wrong with me. That is why, perhaps, I have reached a stage in life where I am assured of my future. This is coming from a person, who has had a very ordinary primary education. 

Self introspection is very very useful. Trust me.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> Can you show me posts where I created 'noise' about Microsoft copying Apple?


*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=323474&postcount=25
Aren't you the one talking about technology available in Apple's OS before Windows and MS taking it?


> I only replied to to your post to mention what I thought of Apple's contribution to OSS.


Yeah...my stomach still hurts from laughing after your mention of mklinux.


> You are the one who assumed that I feel some one copied some one. Software companies are known to copy each other. What's new in that?


You bothered to reply to a particular post in a thread but did not want to post your thoughts about the original thread itself? If nothing is new in copying business...I did not see you correcting the original thread starter. Why?


> Yes, please do check my previous posts on this forum. This will clear your 'behaviour' point.


I have seen your and other macboys' posts for long and the point was made only after reading them.


> I am a person who always tries to correct what is wrong with me. That is why, perhaps, I have reached a stage in life where I am assured of my future. This is coming from a person, who has had a very ordinary primary education.


Don't reach too near a pin sometime. You might prick your overinflated ego leaving you completely flat


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=323474&postcount=25
> Aren't you the one talking about technology available in Apple's OS before Windows and MS taking it?



You actually bothered to read through my posts to find that? Woah!

Did you bother to read the post of the guy to whom I made that statement? I simply said Spotlight was released in a commercial OS 1.5 years before it did on another commerical OS. It was the other poster, who in fact, said the technology was developed by Microsoft first.

Good try, but you've got to be better.



> Yeah...my stomach still hurts from laughing after your mention of mklinux.



Good for you.



> You bothered to reply to a particular post in a thread but did not want to post your thoughts about the original thread itself? If nothing is new in copying business...I did not see you correcting the original thread starter. Why?



I never knew it was my responsibility to correct people's views. I merely commented on a post by another person. Why should I correct the person? 



> I have seen your and other macboys' posts for long and the point was made only after reading them.



Yes, please do point out my posts, where I have posted anything other than facts. What do these 'others' have got to do with me?



> Don't reach too near a pin sometime. You might prick your overinflated ego leaving you completely flat



I have an ego? LOL! I always try to learn and correct myself.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> Did you bother to read the post of the guy to whom I made that statement? I simply said Spotlight was released in a commercial OS 1.5 years before it did on another commerical OS. It was the other poster, who in fact, said the technology was developed by Microsoft first.


...and you were the one who said that they copied it. That makes you any different then him?


> I never knew it was my responsibility to correct people's views. I merely commented on a post by another person. Why should I correct the person?


You comment to reach at some point or you keep passing comments without any reason or goal? I see you correcting someone in that other thread I linked to. What was the roadblock in your way in this thread?


> Yes, please do point out my posts. What do these 'others' have got to do with me?


I wish I had that much time and those "others" are associated very dearly with you in a famous group known as "Macboys" 


> I have an ego? LOL! I always try to learn and correct myself.


 You wish


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> ...and you were the one who said that they copied it. That makes you any different then him?



Read the post more carefully. Can you point one instance where I said they copied it. I only asked him that if it was in development much before then why wasn't it a part of a commercial OS?

please stop trying to prove you're right.



> You comment to reach at some point or you keep passing comments without any reason or goal? I see you correcting someone in that other thread I linked to. What was the roadblock in your way in this thread?


Why should I tell you, of all people, why I did not intend to post in a thrad?



> I wish I had that much time and those "others" are associated very dearly with you in a famous group known as "Macboys"


Lol. Talk about name calling and prejudice. I countered all your points about me saying something about copying, and you came up with that? Very very nice. please find another reason.

You say you don't have time, and yet you had the time to find out a post of mine where I talked about Spotlight? Now go find another post where I said something about another platform. 

Talk about inconsistencies in a person's statements.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> Read the post more carefully. Can you point one instance where I said they copied it. I only asked him that if it was in development much before then why wasn't it a part of a commercial OS?


lol. So we are talking about the particular word "copy" or the essense?


> Why should I tell you, of all people, why I did not intend to post in a thrad?


Because in the same thread, you posted about a particular discussion ignoring the main point of the thread. If you don't want to defend that behaviour than it clearly shows were your loyalty lies and what were your underlying motives behind posting those comments. Before you ask...I am saying that you wanted to defend Apple's case in here rather than talking about original topic.


> Lol. Talk about name calling and prejudice. I countered all your points about me saying something about copying, and you came up with that? Very very nice. please find another reason.


Its not me alone but a general feeling about your group. Time for that poll may be? Oh and I have to find reason of what?


> You say you don't have time, and yet you had the time to find out a post of mine where I talked about Spotlight?
> Talk about inconsistencies in a person's statements.


 Because I was one of the major persons debating in that thread, its obvious that I remembered it but I can't keep track of all your posts...can I? But reading them and making an image of someone's behaviour is quite possible. If you find that as inconsistent statements then you really need to be more receptive and analytical to visual feedbacks


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## Aberforth (Feb 17, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> win32codecs are long available for Linux,though the legal stand is not clear.
> *www.usinglinux.org/multimedia/win32-codecs.html



The codecs are perfectly legal in India and Europe as DMCA which regulates DRM does not apply except US and a few allies. Microsoft would try to make you believe they are illegal and unethical but remember they're talking about themselves and US and what they say is not necessarily in our interests. Check Indian laws instead


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## praka123 (Feb 17, 2007)

^^ thx for that


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## gxsaurav (Feb 17, 2007)

andy said:
			
		

> WMV9 DRMed codecs can be used in Linux? Whom are you fooling?
> Also, can you link me to these Windows Media codecs which play in Linux? I'll install them on Slack right away.





			
				[B said:
			
		

> Aberforth[/b]]Well packman repositories have codecs for a few popular distros which enable Linux to play win32 codecs.
> 
> The link - *mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/packman/
> 
> Don't know about Slackware though.





> Quote:  win32codecs are long available for Linux,though the legal stand is not clear.
> *www.usinglinux.org/multimedia/win32-codecs.html


Pwned #1



			
				andy said:
			
		

> You asked me for a single contribution. I gave it to you. Whether you want to laugh at me, or you want to cry, is entirely upto you.


pwned #2. You call that contribution  Sorry, couldn't help myself...from laughing



			
				andy said:
			
		

> I'll ignore your little pick on Apple here. Yes, Apple based its browser on Konqueror. They never helped Konqueror. But, they helped the development of Webkit on S60. Thanks for ignoring that part of my post.


Thanx god, atleast you are yourself admiting that Apple is copying from KHTML, & not giving anything back to KDE, that is what the GPL sates.

& about Webkit.....lolz, like eddie said, they are doing this just so that the OSS develope the code, & they can use it for free. I hope you know about the costs arising in R&D



			
				andy said:
			
		

> I am a person who always tries to correct what is wrong with me. That is why, perhaps, I have reached a stage in life where I am assured of my future. This is coming from a person, who has had a very ordinary primary education.


Congretulations on this boy 



			
				andy said:
			
		

> I'm a student, who uses a Macintosh. What's so wrong about it? What's so special about using Linux?


Nothing, the problem is in macboy attitude & whining.



			
				andy said:
			
		

> Yes, please do point out my posts, where I have posted anything other than facts. What do these 'others' have got to do with me?


 That will take a lot of time, the forum is full of it, oh! just look at the top of this page yourself

& plz, do mention what do u want the posters in this thread to do. If we take names we get banned for giving "personal comments" & if we don't ....well, u say that

I had no idea, a simple post like this will hurt u so badly, i mean, it's like everything we say to apple is something macboys take upon themselves


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> Because in the same thread, you posted about a particular discussion ignoring the main point of the thread. If you don't want to defend that behaviour than it clearly shows were your loyalty lies and what were your underlying motives behind posting those comments. Before you ask...I am saying that you wanted to defend Apple's case in here rather than talking about original topic.



I just posted what I thought was a contribution. As I said before, it was my 'view'. I don't know how you came to use words like 'defend', 'case' etc. Why would I need to defend a company I have no relation with in the first place? Am I an employee? No. Am I a shareholder? No. Am I the chairman? No. Do I hold a special interest in the firm? No. I'm just a user, who thought I should inform some one about Webkit. If you think it's not worth it, then it is fine with me. It's what you think, not what I do.

I chose to make my position on the topic at hand clear at a point. 
What I do post, though, is facts. I would you to find a post where I have lied. 

A person's views may be biased, but not facts. Facts are what they are. My views may be biased,  but the facts that I post aren't.

If you are still a 'major person debating in a thread' you would quite like to counter my claim, wouldn't you?




> Its not me alone but a general feeling about your group. Time for that poll may be? Oh and I have to find reason of what?


My group? Lol. As I said before, get a grip. Please stop classifying people according to the computers they use. 


As for the other sidekick, who is trying to poke his/her/its nose in between, it's a debate between two educated people, who can join two words to make a  grammatically correct sentence. Don't bother, seriously.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

mail2and said:
			
		

> I just posted what I thought was a contribution. As I said before, it was my 'view'. I don't know how you came to use words like 'defend', 'case' etc. Why would I need to defend a company I have no relation with in the first place? Am I an employee? No. Am I a shareholder? No. Am I the chairman? No. Do I hold a special interest in the firm? No. I'm just a user, who thought I should inform some one about Webkit. If you think it's not worth it, then it is fine with me. It's what you think, not what I do.


Everyone, sometimes in their life, needs to defend their views and their thoughts about something that they have "supportive views" on. Your feelings regarding Apple and its OS are not behind any veil...rather they have been out in the open on occasions more than one. You don't need to be Chairman or owner of a company to be defending it or talking in favour of it. Your liking or you harboring favorable feelings for that company are reasons enough for you to defend it.


> I would you to find a post where I have lied.


You have not lied but you have not posted anything relevant either. mklinux, as I said earlier, is not even an attempt towards contribution while webkit is nothing but an attempt to get free development done for a commercial product.


> My group? Lol. As I said before, get a grip. Please stop classifying people according to the computers they use.


I don't need to "get" a grip because I am quite stable in my thoughts. As I said earlier, I do not classify people according to the computers or the OS they use but I do classify them according to the way they behave.


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> Your liking or you harboring favorable feelings for that company are reasons enough for you to defend it.



But, I do not defend any company or product unless I post facts. Look around the forum, and you'll see people lying so blatantly that it'll make you sad. However, I must understand that people tend to say a lot of things sitting behind a monitor(Not pointing at you.)




> You have not lied but you have not posted anything relevant either. mklinux, as I said earlier, is not even an attempt towards contribution while webkit is nothing but an attempt to get free development done for a commercial product.



I do understand what you mean. What I mean to say is that one company is not better than another. I see people on this forum claiming the company they support came straight from heaven. My point was always that. You can even find traces of that in this thread, too.


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## eddie (Feb 17, 2007)

I get your point. I guess we should just end this discussion at the following points:
1) Everyone copies...be it Microsoft, Apple or Linux. Its not new and it will always happen...be it an Icon or be it a Kernel.
2) You feel Apple contribute to Open Source...I feel they don't.

Lets just say "the end" at that.


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## mail2and (Feb 17, 2007)

True. 

Even I agree that Apple does not contribute as much as they should. I had a discussion with tech_your_future about this a few days back, if I remember correctly.


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