# Malaysian Airlines crashes near Ukraine



## theserpent (Jul 17, 2014)

> Malaysian Air said it lost contact with one of its passenger planes today over Ukraine near the border with Russia.
> 
> The airline said in a tweet that it had "lost contact with MH17 from Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukraine airspace."
> 
> This is a developing story. Please check back to ABC News for updates.



Malaysian Airlines Loses Contact With Passenger Plane Over Ukraine - ABC News


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

Initial rumours suggest that it's been shot down near Donetsk...

What's up with Malaysian Airlines these days... Two big incidents in one year!!!


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## theserpent (Jul 17, 2014)

Really disappointing  

I thought ATC-AIRLINERS decide the safest route while flying?
Which person in right mind would select flying over a war torne area?
I myself would be scared of flying over Afghan(READ:Spicejet almost shotdown)/Russia/Pakistan


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

> The plane appeared to have come down in a region of military action where Ukrainian government forces are battling pro-Russian separatists.



Malaysia Airlines plane crash: Boeing jet carrying 295 people 'shot down' in Ukraine - Europe - World - The Independent

- - - Updated - - -

For those who are skeptical that this is a one-off incident, here's something to send shivers down your spine:

List of airliner shootdown incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In that list, the most famous ones are:

1. Korean Air Lines Flight 007
2. Iran Air Flight 655
3. Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870


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## theserpent (Jul 17, 2014)

If Russia has those anti-aircraft guns why do these airlines even risk it?


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## quicky008 (Jul 17, 2014)

Can anyone suggest any good shows/documentaries where the investigations concerning the aforesaid shootdown incidents have been shown?


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## seamon (Jul 17, 2014)

This fills a doubt in my mind if I should go to Singapore to study.  :eeksign::eeksign::eeksign::eeksign::eeksign:


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## Nerevarine (Jul 17, 2014)

Did anyone even survive ?? How serious is "Shot down"


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

quicky008 said:


> Can anyone suggest any good shows/documentaries where the investigations concerning the aforesaid shootdown incidents have been shown?


Air Crash Investigation, also known as Mayday in some countries...
It's telecast by NGC in India...


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

theserpent said:


> If Russia has those anti-aircraft guns why do these airlines even risk it?


Yeah... Seems idiotic to me...

For all we know, it's flight path after Ukraine could have been through Gaza, Syria, Iraq and then Afghanistan!!!


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

seamon said:


> This fills a doubt in my mind if I should go to Singapore to study.  :eeksign::eeksign::eeksign::eeksign::eeksign:


This didn't happen over Singaporean air space...


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## powerhoney (Jul 17, 2014)

Nerevarine said:


> Did anyone even survive ?? How serious is "Shot down"


Shot down is like "ka boom"!!!


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## Hrishi (Jul 17, 2014)

But why would someone shoot down a civilian vessel. ?
Was is the terrorists or the Natioanl military ?


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## Desmond (Jul 17, 2014)

Real unfortunate.

A timeline of events if given here :

*translate.google.com/translate?sl=...t-ueber-ukraine-ab_id_3998909.html&edit-text=


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## quicky008 (Jul 17, 2014)

powerhoney said:


> Air Crash Investigation, also known as Mayday in some countries...
> It's telecast by NGC in India...


thanks mate.


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## abhidev (Jul 17, 2014)

wth is happening in this world


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## powerhoney (Jul 18, 2014)

Flightradar24 reported that a Singapore Airlines Boeing 777-200ER (Flight SQ351) and an Air India Boeing 787-8 (Flight AI113) were each about 25 km (16 mi) away from the Malaysian airliner when it disappeared...

Source:An Air India Plane was 25 km away when Flight MH 17 crashed


Damn... This is some serious sh!t... Indians were damn lucky...


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## Hrishi (Jul 18, 2014)

There was no murican onboard else it would have been disaster for the shooter.
But whatever it be , should be punished. Killing innocent civilians is a big crime.
There was an Indian too , onboard.


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## bssunilreddy (Jul 18, 2014)

Whats happening to Malaysian Airlines these days? Two unfortunate incidents this year alone!


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## amjath (Jul 18, 2014)

Its the fourth malaysian flight which got shot down.  its really sad taht it happened.

- - - Updated - - -

There are military operation which shot down many flights in history



> It is too early to say whether the Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in separatist-controlled eastern Ukraine was a terrorist attack, a leading terrorism expert has said, arguing it was more likely a "military event gone wrong" involving one of the groups fighting in the Ukrainian separatist conflict.
> 
> The director of the Global Terrorism Research Centre at Monash University, professor Gary Bouma, told Guardian Australia the confirmation that 27 Australians had died was “terrible”, but it most likely was not an act of terrorism comparable to Australians being caught up in attacks such as the Bali bombings in 2002 or the 11 September attacks in New York and Washington in 2001.
> 
> ...


Malaysia Airlines crash: too early to call a terrorist attack, says expert | World news | theguardian.com


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 18, 2014)

tragic and very sad event! malaysian airlines did a massive, witless blunder by charting a flight-path over that region! as it is, civilian agencies don't consider flying their planes over war-torn areas, and if it must be, then clearance is sought from the warring parties, the parties instruct their groundsmen and gunners and missile-operators and likewise, about the identity of the aircraft, radio frequencies, flight-path, and such, and to let it pass. nothing like this happened here. the airliner just tried to pass through from there merrily! stupid, STUPID agency! 

for now, it seems likely that the plane was shot down using a surface-to-air AA-missile instead of an AA-gun. but what kind or type of missile is yet to be determined (some are saying it was the buk missile). also, it seems that the attack was due to mistaken identity, as earlier too, two (military) aircrafts were shot down in the region in a similar manner before this, but they didn't make news as they were non-civilian crafts. now awaiting the retrieval of the FDR and the data it has to share.


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## Hrishi (Jul 18, 2014)

^our PM's aircraft too had the same path , as per the media. Though they may have clearance but still thats risky. Isn't it ?


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## amjath (Jul 18, 2014)

^It happened 2 hours before, his flight started


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## Hrishi (Jul 18, 2014)

amjath said:


> ^It happened 2 hours before, his flight started


yeah but its still an extremely dangerous zone , why then why they plot this route ?


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## amjath (Jul 18, 2014)

dont know, may be its a standard aerial route. Dont say it was targetted for PM, not pointing anyone here


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## theserpent (Jul 18, 2014)

I really have a bad feeling about a WW3


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## 101gamzer (Jul 18, 2014)

I smell conspiracy


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## abhidev (Jul 18, 2014)

theserpent said:


> I really have a bad feeling about a WW3



the world is moving towards it


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## amjath (Jul 19, 2014)

WTF did i just read


> A top pro-Russia rebel commander in eastern Ukraine has given a bizarre version of events surrounding the Malaysian jetliner crash — suggesting many of the victims may have died days before the plane took off.
> 
> The pro-rebel website Russkaya Vesna on Friday quoted Igor Girkin as saying he was told by people at the crash site that *"a significant number of the bodies weren't fresh," adding that he was told they were drained of blood and reeked of decomposition*.


Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash - Yahoo News

Moscow’s bizarre conspiracy theories about MH17 attack | New York Post


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## Hrishi (Jul 19, 2014)

amjath said:


> WTF did i just read
> 
> Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash - Yahoo News
> 
> Moscow’s bizarre conspiracy theories about MH17 attack | New York Post


If it really is , then this is one hell of a conspiracy.
All we can do is speculate.


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## icebags (Jul 19, 2014)

perhaps its the curse of peaceful times, people become too ignorant of the brutality of war, and fly over war zone just because its commercially profitable, what ignorance, when there are already incidents of plane shot downs. 
*s.yimg.com/lq/i/mesg/emoticons7/46.gif


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## amjath (Jul 19, 2014)

I highly suspect its ruusssia who did it


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## Anorion (Jul 19, 2014)

me too

but they know it was a mistake and trying to cover it up... which will only add to the confusion and more conspiracy theories


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## icebags (Jul 19, 2014)

more precisely, some hothead tomboy person who was in command of such a facility did it, without thinking about consequences and may be under the influence of alcohol.

but those who are keeping the war alive out there are not innocent of the case either.


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## kunalgujarathi (Jul 19, 2014)

amjath said:


> I highly suspect its ruusssia who did it



Russia can't do such things in such democratic era!
Dude it will be boycotted from everything !

It's impossible for Putin government to do so!

There is some inner conspiracy!
Russia does claim that region as it's territory but they have no forces there as it's a civil war region occupied by militia !


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## Hrishi (Jul 19, 2014)

Why does murica have to poke its finger everywhere....... Bama poking putin for this will only add to the fury.
Russia ain't iraq. If murica pokes too much then it will get a big punch back in reply.

WW is most unlikely though. No one wants a hit to their economy.


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## kunalgujarathi (Jul 19, 2014)

Hrishi said:


> Why does murica have to poke its finger everywhere....... Bama poking putin for this will only add to the fury.
> Russia ain't iraq. If murica pokes too much then it will get a big punch back in reply.
> 
> WW is most unlikely though. No one wants a hit to their economy.



America thinks itself as ultrapower and Obama as president of world!
Crap!

European Union Belgium headquartered will investigate and if needed Scotland Yard come in picture


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## Siddhartht (Jul 21, 2014)

amjath said:


> WTF did i just read
> 
> Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash - Yahoo News
> 
> Moscow’s bizarre conspiracy theories about MH17 attack | New York Post



Seriously, I mean the next thing he might say is that the plane was carrying a cargo full of viruses and bombs and voodoo dolls and whatnot. The plan was shot down, the missile came from separatist controlled area, the buk launchers cannot be used by some novices, although some button smashing can give disastrous results like this. Seemingly it is the case misidentification; they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane, launched the missile, and went all panic mode when it turned out be a civilian one. Somebody need to take blame, but who will; USA never apologised when they shot the Iranian airliner, so now can we expect Russia to do same? And I don't think there is a conspiracy; Russians did a mistake, and now USA has a chance to grill them for it. (As far as I remember, Ukrainians are already scared of Buks they have with them, a similar sort of accident happened before, and the blame was on Ukraine, and then they slowed/stopped testing of such missile systems)


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## Anorion (Jul 21, 2014)

ok I guess it's easy to believe at this point that it is some kind of conspiracy

evidence that the missile was fired by a BUK M2
How spies cracked the Malaysia Airlines MH17 missile mystery (Wired UK)

The Russians are trying to blame it on Ukraine and Malaysian Airlines in a number of ways atm, while carefully sidestepping the allegation about who actually fired the shot. 
-The plane deviated from the planned fight path
-The Ukrainians asked it to fly lower
-The plane took the risk of flying over a conflict area knowingly 
-Some very early Ukraine reports said their own forces shot down the plane by mistake (can't find link for this)


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## ithehappy (Jul 21, 2014)

Wonderful. Who gives a **** who shot at it? I just don't understand one thing, when they shoot at a plane they see it right? I mean if it's a passenger plane or not. Now if it's not a passenger plane, I don't give a damn honestly if some politician dies or not, but how on earth they shot a passenger plane for ****'s sake? 

What is this, playing Counter Strike?


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## Hrishi (Jul 21, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> Wonderful. Who gives a **** who shot at it? I just don't understand one thing, when they shoot at a plane they see it right? I mean if it's a passenger plane or not. Now if it's not a passenger plane, I don't give a damn honestly if some politician dies or not, but how on earth they shot a passenger plane for ****'s sake?
> 
> What is this, playing Counter Strike?


Exactly... shooting down a passenger plane carrying 300 innocent lives and stating it as a mistake doesnt seems justified.
Its like commiting genoice and getting excused because it was a mistake.


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## sam_738844 (Jul 21, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> Wonderful. Who gives a **** who shot at it? I just don't understand one thing, when they shoot at a plane t*hey see it right? I mean if it's a passenger plane or not. *Now if it's not a passenger plane, I don't give a damn honestly if some politician dies or not, but how on earth they shot a passenger plane for ****'s sake?
> 
> What is this, playing Counter Strike?




Seeing a plane which is flying at 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) is not like watching Simpsons in TV. Its all in radar there. An inexperienced crew of BUK operatives have a high chance of mistaking a commercial airliner with a military aircraft. It takes 22 seconds for the BUK launcher to detect and fire. After the mistake is made, there is no chance to revoke it.


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## ithehappy (Jul 21, 2014)

sam_738844 said:


> An inexperienced crew of BUK operatives have a high chance of mistaking a commercial airliner with a military aircraft.



Lovely then.


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## Hrishi (Jul 21, 2014)

sam_738844 said:


> Seeing a plane which is flying at 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) is not like watching Simpsons in TV. Its all in radar there. An inexperienced crew of BUK operatives have a high chance of mistaking a commercial airliner with a military aircraft. It takes 22 seconds for the BUK launcher to detect and fire. After the mistake is made, there is no chance to revoke it.


No one intentinally kills a plane filled with 300 lives.
But still someone has to pay for the mistake made.  someone has to take the responsibility...be it the Malaysian airliner control for flying over a hostile air zone or be it the rebels who were handed the weapon of destruction.
One must take the blame.


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## lywyre (Jul 21, 2014)

There is a lot of uncertainty surrounding this.
1) Who shot the plane down: Pretty certain pro-Russian rebels, but exactly who?
2) Who gave the command to shoot down the plane?
3) Did they knew if the one they were shooting down was a civilian plane? 
4) Was the air-craft flying low or what was the altitude of the flight when it was shot down?

Chances are
a. The plane was shot down by pro-Russian rebels mistaking it for an Ukranian military cargo
b. vice-versa

Hot-headed US is already blaming Russia (not even the rebels) as if Putin commanded to shoot down the plane. Did they forget this so soon: Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ithehappy (Jul 21, 2014)

Dumb headed. Who really hears them anyway?


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## sam_738844 (Jul 21, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> Lovely then.



its what the reports say, not sure if its lovely or whatever. If that is a mistake, its price is very high.


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## amjath (Jul 21, 2014)

No one gives a sh!t. people forget if the issue is unanswered just like missing malaysian airline


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## sam_738844 (Jul 21, 2014)

whatthefrak said:


> Dumb headed. *Who really hears them anyway?*



Literally everyone. 

1) The question about who exactly gave the order to shoot down the plane is less important right now, a crime at this level will not be judged over a person, it will be on a group/community or command level , so will be conviction and sentencing or acts towards it. 

2) There are sources which have revealed communication between Rebels and Russian officers.

3) Did they know or did not, that is the most pertinent question here, if they have shot down a commercial airliner just to test their MTS and radars then that means very close to war. If not, then its questionable in multiple areas..such as 

    a) How the hell the airliner decided to set a route over a marked war-zone where multiple military planes were shot down using SAMs.

    b) The pro-Russians who allegedly has shot down the plane are actually the separatists or is it Ukrainian rebels or pro-euro revels weaving a conspiracy to make it look like Russians did it. Plane flying over Ukraine, separatist looking dudes take it down. Simple but big.

    c) If the above is true, why pro-euro rebels would shot down a plane which had mostly "Europeans" ?

    d) Russians are in the deepest shite here, They are not the holy paladin of righteousness , they sell weapons across the world. Reports has a sighting of a Buk missile system moving between the cities of Torez and Snizhne, both within in Donetsk Oblast area few hours before the plane was shot. If Ukrainian separatists have just blown up a commercial airliner using a Russian weapon, we are almost certainly looking at a massive geopolitical chaos here, with the rest of the world too. 

    e) BUK has a range of 22Km above surface upto where it can detect targets, detecting a subsonic target at 33000 feet was too easy for it. Even if the plane had gone above stratospheric heights, the missiles would still blow it to pieces.


And lastly it does not matter whether US is hot headed or cool-ass because what matters is information, and they are bloody damn good at it. If it turns out that Russia has really got bloody hands, then it will totally justify their recent actions over Ukrain and call for a war.


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 21, 2014)

one should honestly give a damn if a critical leader/politician is killed, in such an attack or in any other way. can affect a whole nation directly in profound ways.

even the US has a blot with such an incident on its supposed white-collar. when the US navy itself couldn't identify a civilian aircraft from a hostile military one, then what to expect from some masked nincompoops running amok over a territory?! don't know what 'high price' has the US paid till now for its blunder; moreover, nothing can compensate for such criminal blunders. just like 'big' men manage to go scot-free after committing serious blunders and heinous crimes, 'big' nations too tend to/manage to skirt around. microcosm meets the macrocosm! the world's rotten!

P.S. - BTW, the malaysian airlines had released an excerpt of communication between the ill-fated airplane's pilot and the Ukranian ATC, wherein, the ATC had instructed the pilot to lower down the elevation of the plane to 33k ft, just above the limit of flight-elevation in a warn-torn region. any update on this?


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## amjath (Jul 21, 2014)

Any Family members of the passangers came forward??


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## setanjan123 (Jul 21, 2014)

Really sad. My guess is that they mistook it 4 enemy aircraft and nw are trying to cover it up, no big conspiracy. Modi's plane nearby? I thnk media is lying a bit to get sensationalism and mass hysteria. I am sure some dumb UFO nut will say the plane crashed with an UFO!! Wth is the world upto!


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## amjath (Jul 21, 2014)

^ Russians are UFO freaks


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## Anorion (Jul 21, 2014)

lywyre said:


> 1) Who shot the plane down: Pretty certain pro-Russian rebels, but exactly who?
> 2) Who gave the command to shoot down the plane?


Rebel Leader in Alleged Leaked Audio: We Just Shot Down a Plane



lywyre said:


> 3) Did they knew if the one they were shooting down was a civilian plane?


No



lywyre said:


> 4) Was the air-craft flying low or what was the altitude of the flight when it was shot down?


It was flying lower than planned. It was asked by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33000 feet instead of filed approved plan of 35000 feet
Why Was Malaysia Airlines MH17 Flying Over Ukraine? Time, Money - NBC News



GhorMaanas said:


> P.S. - BTW, the malaysian airlines had released an excerpt of communication between the ill-fated airplane's pilot and the Ukranian ATC, wherein, the ATC had instructed the pilot to lower down the elevation of the plane to 33k ft, just above the limit of flight-elevation in a warn-torn region. any update on this?


Yes. The war-torn region elevation limit was set at 32k feet.

All of this anyway does not make much difference because, 


sam_738844 said:


> e) BUK has a range of 22Km above surface upto where it can detect targets, detecting a subsonic target at 33000 feet was too easy for it. Even if the plane had gone above stratospheric heights, the missiles would still blow it to pieces.


\

- - - Updated - - -

Russian Military is holding press conference right now
highlights so far 

-flight tried to maneuver away from the area, could not complete the movement
-Why did Ukraine deploy the BUK launchers in the area, and against whom, as the rebels don't have aircraft
--Ukraine moved SAM missiles on day of crash
-There was a graph showing RADAR activity of the Ukrainian military. The graph showed number of active stations peaking on 17th (9 active stations), with increase in operating stations on 16th (8 stations) and 15th (7 stations). Then suddenly the RADAR stations go silent after 17th, to barely 2-3 operating. The Russian military is asking what is the reason for this. 
-Russian RADAR and satellite systems picked up a Ukrainian Su-25 which has capability of Air to Air missiles in the skies at the same time as MH17 and at the same flight level. It was tracking MH17. Russian military is asking why it was there and what it was doing.


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 21, 2014)

^^ yes, the movement of the missile-launchers in the area was also highly suspect and had been in the news at times. the findings that the russian military have come up with are intriguing; let's see what ukraine has to say/clarify on these.


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## icebags (Jul 21, 2014)

read yesterday in news paper, it may be that, those who fired the missile, might already been killed to wipe out the traces. god knows what is going on there.....


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 22, 2014)

the blackbox has already reportedly been whisked away by the rebels.


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## Anorion (Jul 22, 2014)

Latest from Russia

The leaked tapes on the social networks are doctored. Just look at the audio spectrogram of the video, and you can see the cuts. Subsequent statements in the audio are allegedly hours apart.  

starting to believe Russian version of events.
Which is actually at this point, the rebels may have fired the missile that got the plane down, but at the moment there is no hard evidence of it, there was suspicious ukraininan military activity leading up to the day and on the day, and that it is not the whole story anyway. Wait till a proper investigation before jumping to conclusions and politicizing the issue. It's sick the way opinions are exploding on social networks and then to the news, and through them to pressure from official diplomatic channels, (Russians say this is unprecedented so far) based on flimsy evidence. 

most of that seems reasonable enough


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## abhidev (Jul 22, 2014)

was looking at the news related to this incidence and came through this video...not sure if this is true or the dude is just trying to get attention...

[YOUTUBE]KXQ_8_KUT3w&list=UUFjOi1ZpZVErr8EYxg8t1dQ[/YOUTUBE]


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 22, 2014)

and now the black boxes have been given to malaysian authorities by the rebels


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## powerhoney (Jul 22, 2014)

GhorMaanas said:


> and now the black boxes have been given to malaysian authorities by the rebels



After tampering them like crazy, no doubt!!! 


Btw,   [MENTION=120775]GhorMaanas[/MENTION]  Same number of posts for both of us!!! 
#YesHomo


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## GhorMaanas (Jul 22, 2014)

powerhoney said:


> After tampering them like crazy, no doubt!!!



territorial dogs fearful of getting caught lick the bones clean and then act innocent and upright.


powerhoney said:


> Btw,    @GhorMaanas   Same number of posts for both of us!!!
> #YesHomo



humein badhaai ho!


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## Hrishi (Jul 22, 2014)

If ine tampers with bb ...it will get noticed...isnt.it ?


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## powerhoney (Jul 23, 2014)

Hrishi said:


> If ine tampers with bb ...it will get noticed...isnt.it ?



No use if it's noticed or not... The crucial data will be missing/replaced... And, anyway, they could just wipe/damage the FDR and the CVR and say that they were damaged in the post-crash fire... Or, as a result of the g force encountered during the crash!!!


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## Anorion (Jul 23, 2014)

why has this become a US-Russia thing?
this whole episode is becoming embarrassing for US and Australia

On one side we have Russian military posting many questions, backed by RADAR and satellite imagery. On other hand we have Australia and US representatives citing videos from social networks and tweets. I guess  ball of smoke rising and and alarmed radio chatter is more tv friendly than a bunch of blips and an old balding man talking about military buildup and RADAR activity. According to Russian media, US has privately agreed that it has no proof of Russian involvement in the crash at all. The only evidence USA is even suspected to have so far is that it was a certain type of missile (SA-11, US allegedly has satellite images to support this) most probably fired from a BUK M2 Launcher, but the bit about who was in control of those is a connection made with unverified social media feeds. We also have Kiev taking absolutely no responsibility, and answering none of the questions about about the safety of its own air space. 
US intelligence: No direct link to Russia in Malaysia plane downing RT USA

The western media is going haywire, even to the extent of showing photos of Ukrainian Military next to BUK launchers and calling that evidence of Russian Rebels. Russian media is not doing the opposite of that because that would be pointless misinformation. Ukraine news itself showed photos of its own missiles and called them the launchers going back to Russia, when you can see identification markers of it clearly belonging to Ukraine.


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## Anorion (Jul 25, 2014)

This episode is now being called "information warfare" 
to get an idea, visit the news sites and comments section of washington post and russia today. its the same thread.

- - - Updated - - -

"No evidence or indications of manipulation of the recorder was found," the Dutch Safety Board (OVV) said in a statement. 

Read more at:
MH17 black box data downloaded, no evidence of tampering - The Economic Times


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