# Piracy Right or Wrong?



## kuku_hbk (Jun 6, 2007)

Piracy is the one evil which is considered much worse than our indian ministers! But is it really that bad, I mean you get the softwares and games for pocket prices, you dont burn your pockets! But again it cuts off a huge revenue off the owner of that particular game or software and you are called as shameless. But again do you think that  companies like Microsoft, sony, and other industry giants, which have made us slaves of computers, can't protect their cd's from being copied? Why dont they sue the Burning Cd' software giants (and dwarfs) like Nero or Roxio who should have a copyright checker built in themselves to stop this thing. Have you ever thought where the hell does that first crack of the CD comes from, who does it, Why? Is it helping him in any way, is he doing this for fun or revenge? Why does MS or any other software publisher for that matter don't lower that prices to 'affordable' in India where piracy is much bigger than life itself? Why, is the question, and if you have any answers or any other views feel free to post them here. Now its high time we decide, Shall we live with it or destroy it for good...or for the worse!


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## freshseasons (Jun 6, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Whew! Lot of questions.Still…
   No Piracy is still not considered worse than our ministers.Our Minister effortlessly top the evil list.
    Its not necessary that softwares burn a hole in the pocket. Because if there is so much a chance we are always free to shift to freeware and other similar alternatives.No Software is so necessary that it has to burn a hole in the pocket. There will always be free alternative.
     And yes you are very right. Software piracy does hurt the companies in a big way.
  But Companies like Microsoft, Sony , Apple don’t make us slaves of computers at all. I don’t see anyone putting up gun to ones temple ejaculate command to obey the computers. Rather Computers are our humble servants. Yes sometimes like servants without whom we cannot do with .MS ,Apple ,Sony only made sure than using this servant was a pleasing experience.
    Nero or Roxio don’t have copy right checker because it will hinder the process of knowing which actually is legimate backup and which is pirated. And trust me Nero will hate someone make an illegitimate copy of Nero.
    The first crack of CD comes from Cracker groups .Most of these groups are banned. Still tracking them is really difficult.Companies don’t encourage them.Rather every new updated version tries to make the last cracked version redundant.
    Microsoft did start with low priced software in the form of Windows Starter edition.It wasn’t much successful.Still they tried it .
    Piracy is bad! That’s it ….simple word.Like it or not. Even though I do have some of the movies downloaded but the ones that deserve I still watch them in the theaters. The effort should be paid for. I don’t think Movie industry can survive on loss.And I don’t want a world without movies or songs.
  Cracks and piracy will always be there.   
   But Software companies make softwares for people who pay and that particular segment of the population is what that keeps this computer world ticking.


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## cynosure (Jun 6, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Buying softwares is no big deal given that they offer super cool thingies for their price. I mean just look at Windows. For an average user like me, it DOES NOT provide any good services that cannot be provided by OSS. The services I am talking about are those which are really neccessary for an everyday "non-geeky" user like myself. 
I have tried some pirated softs and if I like them, I buy them. I have bought some good games after trying their pirated versions (Soul Reaver for example). But the kind of service that windows provides is not justifies by its price. For that we will always have OSS.
But yeah, M$ surely provides good hardware at nice price. Like my friend got a supercool webcam for ~2K (around 6~7MP). This is not bad.


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## kuku_hbk (Jun 7, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*



			
				freshseasons said:
			
		

> Whew! Lot of questions.Still…
> No Piracy is still not considered worse than our ministers.Our Minister effortlessly top the evil list.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay, I take back the minister thing, but what is a "pirated Backup"? Why the hell do you want a backup? Okay I understand to make sure if the original gets lost, but then cant the software firms ensure that only one copy be made and not more than? Yes they can, but they don't, that's the question I asked, Why not? No one will ever need more than one backup copy, of anything, be it music, films, softwares, games... Okay agreed we might loose the backup also, but then for that there can be another solution like giving a private ID of some kind which can be given to the respective software company's website or posted to them so that they know that we brought the software from them, and to make sure we are the person who brought it, they can do a scan, like a voice scan or something, (A software can be made to do this also) and after they are satisfied they provide us another copy with a minimal fee. Now wont this method work? Cumbersom it is, yes, but it can help to a certain extent to stop piracy, but no does this,why? Money you say. oh comon, they are loosing more money now as compared to what they will loose if the method i described above is deployed. What do you say, now?


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## kuku_hbk (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Well well wasent that Mr."I hate piracy". This is what I wanted to show you, they don't take steps coz they don't care about this "****". Have you ever heard any company say 'We have lost this much coz of piracy'?Except for those entermainent people who want every cent they can, Well I never have and I will be damned if you ever did.Its people like you,me,all of us, who have created piracy and now don't want to take the neccesary measures to eradicate it. Deep down inside we know, if OSS doesn't work out, the shop round the corner sends pirated disc for Rs 50. Period.


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## pc_game_lover2004 (Jun 9, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Piracy is somewhat required for developing countries like India..

I mean we are not able to afford such high prices for eg. in usa game's cost is just $99 which for them is just like our 99 Rs. but for us the same game is for thousands... So piracy is partially right...

If they are cheating us with their dollars we are just paying back the foreigns...

3 cheers to moserbaer , t-series and the other companies who ultimately has realized the need and had fallen the prices to such an extent reachable by Indians...

But that's just old movies if the new one are at such prices who is such an idiot to but the pirated one for Rs.50 if the original although available when the film comes original in market will be much more cheaper than this like Rs. 28, 34, 45 etc...


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## kuku_hbk (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Exactly, piracy is an evil, but a neccessary one.


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## faraaz (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

I shifted to Linux because VISTA has DRM built in...what do you think?


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## codyhulk (Jul 16, 2007)

Piracy may be major upset for the Developer of the software but then major piracy happens to software which is trying to seperate us from our money. 

eg. Windows XP. Which itself is made up of mixture of free developer tools on open source project. Only the programming that was required was to connect  backend to frontend securely. 

Why do I want to pay something which is free and forced on me? I don't want to pay for free application just because it will get Microsoft name attached to it. 
eg. Media Player .. Good application but winamp is out there free. 
All the codecs don't belong to microsoft, al the plugins were brought from free forums. 

Its like Politician, if people feel they are trying to manipulate us, it will backfire on politician.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*



			
				faraaz said:
			
		

> I shifted to Linux because VISTA has DRM built in...what do you think?



Tell me something, do you buy or use or download DRM content?



			
				CodyHulk said:
			
		

> eg. Windows XP. Which itself is made up of mixture of free developer tools on open source project. Only the programming that was required was to connect backend to front end securely.



 When Windows XP was released in 2001, Linux & Open Source distributions were working hard to get a working Desktop Environment. Have you worked for Microsoft? I would like to see some proof that MS used Open Source projects in the development & the programming was just for connecting the back end to front end.

Plz...Stop spreading FUD & Misconceptions. It is nothing like what u r talking about.


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## RCuber (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*



			
				faraaz said:
			
		

> I shifted to Linux because VISTA has DRM built in...what do you think?



I buy DRM Protected songs from iTunes. Its much more simple for me to get a MP3 of any song via Limewire/FrostWire But I dont want to steal the effort put in by the artist.

I happly use both windows and linux without much problem.


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## codyhulk (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*

Hit google search.  

Same is happening with Windows Vista. 

90% of software are copied from Mac os x and other free source. 

Search youtube, 

Bill Gates himself said that it is true that everything that is bundled with Microsoft isn't created by microsoft and it is freely available outside. 

Only reason it is there is because only 10% of compute user worry and update the latest software while windows market its latest tool as ease for other 90% users.

eg.
See Mercury software in 2003/2004. 
You will find out where did Windows media center idea come from. 

Small list of software available way before Windows tried to apply it as thier own.

1. Paintbrush
2. Office (read about Lotus, Adobe, Wordspread)
3.  WIndows tab viewer ( see google labs)
4.  Glass theme ( search glass2k)
5. Gadgets (see yahoo/aol widgets)
6.  Recycle bin ( read about apple sue Microsoft)
7. Window itself (read how windows 95 was copy from other software out)
8. Windows Media Player new (Sonicstage, Ambience and winamp)
9. Search (Google and google desktop)
10. Windows meeting space (skype)
11. Windows burners ( millions of them out there way before windows introduced it) 

list continues foreever



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> When Windows XP was released in 2001, Linux & Open Source distributions were working hard to get a working Desktop Environment. Have you worked for Microsoft? I would like to see some proof that MS used Open Source projects in the development & the programming was just for connecting the back end to front end.
> 
> Plz...Stop spreading FUD & Misconceptions. It is nothing like what u r talking about.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Pirace, Right or Wrong?*



			
				codyhulk said:
			
		

> Hit google search.



I am very lazy, plz point me to the proof location.


> 90% of software are copied from Mac os x and other free source.



Since you are new in this forum, I will have mercy on your ignorance.



> Bill Gates himself said that it is true that everything that is bundled with Microsoft isn't created by microsoft and it is freely available outside.



Again, proof plz



> Small list of software available way before Windows tried to apply it as thier own.
> 
> 1. Paintbrush
> 2. Office (read about Lotus, Adobe, Wordspread)
> ...



3rd party developers are the real innovators. Is it wrong for MS to integrate  a feature in the OS itself?


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## codyhulk (Jul 16, 2007)

THis is digit Magazine forum.. Read Magazine Books... June issue with Windows Vista. 

Bill Gates enlisting Mac Os X features for VIsta

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmOmdYPKJQ

Bill gates talking about Vista isn't a copy

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP0_uN42P44

Windows Vista did not steal ideas from Mac OS X! (sarcastic)

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM

Get the hint!!!


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## esumitkumar (Jul 16, 2007)

piracy rocks man..if there were no torrents how wud we watch such world class dvd rip hollywood fllicks .........


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## gxsaurav (Jul 16, 2007)

> Bill Gates enlisting Mac Os X features for VIsta


R u sure u r not on Pot, where does Bill Gates say that the features are from OS X? 

So if a Photo Viewer shows Photo's as thumbnails, it is copy of Mac OS X? Wow, I guess somebody never used Windows XP thumbnail view or ACDSee classic 

That video infact shows how Vista is superior then OS X

2nd video has lip sync problem, I doubt its authenticity

You should get the facts right. Integrating features in an OS is copying  ya right.....then I guess Windows should just give the kernel in a blank DVD

By the way, Piracy rulzz for learning & education, but sux if u r capable of buying the app but still pirate it.


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## sakumar79 (Jul 16, 2007)

^^ @gx_saurav, Even for learning and education, most of the big software now come with academic editions that make it a bit more affordable, which may not always help though...

If you are inclined towards Linux, this topic becomes more or less meaningless. Even though there are many commercial software in Linux, most people who enter the Linux world usually do it to get away from MS stream where they neither want to pay for the OS nor pirate it, or they believe in the OSS/GPL philosophy...

In Mac, I wont comment, as I have no idea... I believe piracy is happening there also, but I am not aware of what extent it is...

In Windows, the situation is complex... In developping countries, you have to look at the monetary situation... While piracy is wrong, many people are either unaware of the piracy, or feel that there is no alternative to piracy... But, even if they want to stick to Windows (which is now becoming a little more affordable to middle-class Indians due to increased standard of living), there are many free alternatives to many popular software these days (Photoshop, MS Office are awesome, but there are decent free alternatives if you dont need the high-end features that may be missing)... It is necessary to create awareness in people to either buy Windows, and try these alternatives, or to try out Linux and see if it fits their bill... Sometimes, even very costly software like 3D Studio Max has freeware alternative like Blender... However, in specialised fields, penetration of good free alternatives to costly software is limited. And the prices of those software are beyond reach for the people in developping countries...

I feel that the big companies can release country-specific software (for example, saying For Sale and Use in India only), and provide the same software at a lower rate based on relative GDP or something (the poorer a country is, the cheaper the version will be, but the version will be legal for use within that country only)... If they release such versions and provide full features, I feel that they will gain more in the long run by covering many converts from piracy... But of course, I dont have any idea how this will work out in practice since some people in the developped nations may use software purchased in the developping nations at a lower rate illegally... With enough awareness though, I think it will help bridge the gap between developped and developping nations, but I dont know for sure...

Arun


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## rakeshishere (Jul 16, 2007)

@gx_saurav
Looks like u got a new competitor in the forum 

ONTOPIC:
Piracy is really helpful for Learning  but I personally hate it


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## gxsaurav (Jul 16, 2007)

sakumar79 said:
			
		

> ^^ @gx_saurav, Even for learning and education, *most of the big software now come with academic editions* that make it a bit more affordable, which may not always help though...



Ya, tell me about it. The cheapest License for 3Ds Max 9 is worth $400. Real price is $3500 for multiple nodes. I would rather buy new hardware then use $400 on an academic license of 3ds Max.

U r right, the biggest reason for Piracy is price difference. Dollar or Euro 150 for a GeForce 8600GT might not be a lot in value in Europe or USA, but Rs 7500 is a lot in India, & you also know that.



> most people who enter the Linux world usually do it to get away from MS stream where they neither want to pay for the OS nor pirate it, or they believe in the OSS/GPL philosophy...



100% people I have seen here with me are running Linux just for one reason, to get an hold on how the OS works & to learn to work on the OS. In other words, Education. Then again, I was only one who actually tried Installing Fedora Core 4 in my friends cyber cafe to install Shake 4.1

In Mac, I wont comment, as I have no idea... I believe piracy is happening there also, but I am not aware of what extent it is...


> there are many free alternatives to many popular software these days (Photoshop, MS Office are awesome, but there are decent free alternatives if you dont need the high-end features that may be missing)... It is *necessary to create awareness* in people to either buy Windows,



About both Windows, Linux & Mac .



> even very costly software like 3D Studio Max has freeware alternative like Blender...



Off topic : Blender is a joke compared to Full 3ds Max  



> I feel that the big companies can release country-specific software (for example, saying For Sale and Use in India only), and provide the same software at a lower rate based on relative GDP or something (the poorer a country is, the cheaper the version will be, but the version will be legal for use within that country only)... If they release such versions and provide full features, I feel that they will gain more in the long run by covering many converts from piracy... But of course, I dont have any idea how this will work out in practice since some people in the developped nations may use software purchased in the developping nations at a lower rate illegally... With enough awareness though, I think it will help bridge the gap between developped and developping nations, but I dont know for sure...



I actually suggested this 4 years back in my blog on Joeuser.com which I don't use anymore.



> Looks like u got a new competitor in the forum



 must resist kicking the arse of ignorant fanboys


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## codyhulk (Jul 17, 2007)

Exactly. 
Why to pay for something which you can get at much cheaper rates.

For me I don't use all the features provided by MS. Maybe if Microsoft provided, Check list and rating the software accordingly I may buy it like many ebooks online. 

But majorly it doesn't meet my criteria. 

Microsoft is providing Upgrade versions for thier OS. I find them much much cheaper and something I can afford. Just rs 900. I actually did buy it. But if someone like Norton/ Mcafee forces me to buy thier software every 2 year just for them to provide upgrade of same thing. It isn't even getting upgraded properly. This is where Piracy for me comes in. 

I just won't pay for same thing again and again just for stupid upgrades. Also those softwares don't even run smoothly. So actually not worth the dime they are charging





			
				sakumar79 said:
			
		

> ^^ @gx_saurav, Even for learning and education, most of the big software now come with academic editions that make it a bit more affordable, which may not always help though...
> 
> If you are inclined towards Linux, this topic becomes more or less meaningless. Even though there are many commercial software in Linux, most people who enter the Linux world usually do it to get away from MS stream where they neither want to pay for the OS nor pirate it, or they believe in the OSS/GPL philosophy...
> 
> ...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 17, 2007)

codyhulk said:
			
		

> Exactly.
> Why to pay for something which you can get at much cheaper rates.
> 
> For me I don't use all the features provided by MS. Maybe if Microsoft provided, Check list and rating the software accordingly I may buy it like many ebooks online.



Good, if you like it buy it. Just don't spread wrong misconceptions that MS copied this or that. By this logic Linux is the biggest copy cat & Mac OS...well, they don't even have there own in house kernel.



> But if someone like Norton/ Mcafee forces me to buy thier software every 2 year just for them to provide upgrade of same thing. It isn't even getting upgraded properly. This is where Piracy for me comes in.



Actually, you can look in the market for Alternatives.



> I just won't pay for same thing again and again just for stupid upgrades. Also those softwares don't even run smoothly. So actually not worth the dime they are charging



Ok one thing about smooth, taking an example of NAV 2007. Symantec learned few things from NAV 2006's pathetic consumer responce. They made NAV 2K7 fast, less resource hig & idiot proof. It runs very smooth on 512 MB RAM or more based computers


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## kumarmohit (Jul 17, 2007)

Hmph! 

BTW, Is this thread meant to bash piracy or to bash each other's operating systems?


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## RCuber (Jul 17, 2007)

Yea WTH are we talking about Copying from one OS to other!!! this thread was ment to discuss about Piracy.. i.e., paying for the software and not who copied what feature..


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## ThinkFree (Jul 17, 2007)

Piracy:right for those who just like the software/find useful for those who want to save their money. Wrong for those who spend months toiling hard sleepless nights to write and test the code of program


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## ECE0105 (Jul 19, 2007)

Happened to chk the link by cody and looked at the "related" videos....

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgriTO8UHvs

This is amusing...


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## xbonez (Jul 19, 2007)

obviously piracy is wrong. thw question is can we refrain from buying pirated goods or not


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## gxsaurav (Jul 19, 2007)

If you can buy the software, or if you make money using the software (like you are using it in some studio, & you earn lots of money through that software) then buy it.

If you are a student, either Pirate or look for student edition of that software. Do some research, almost all the software students needs are available in some sort of education license. If not then look for free alternatives, & trust me, there are free alternatives available for everything in Windows, which might or might not be as good as the paid one. But its a trade you have to make. 

If you are a student & also comfortable with Linux, then switch to it. But contribute something back, I don't know if even *the *mod contributes something back to the Linux community. At least if I liked Linux, I would have given hell lots of UIs back to the community which they need a lot.

Linux is like the Indian software industry, solid back end...but pathetic front end & end user experience.


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## mustang (Jul 27, 2007)

piracy is a very big problem which have been by the market/industries at present time.it effects the quality of product and also the economic growth.


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## entrana (Sep 6, 2007)

think of it this way
people who get pirated stuff= cant afford original
cant afford original= wont buy original
wont buy original = no profit for the producers
now,
buying pirated= no profit for the producers
i dont get it, its same thing we buy pirated because we cant afford original stuff and in the first place we werent gonna buy the original stuff anyways so how can they say that they are losing this much money which they havent even earned, so how can piracy be a bad thing, though illegal
why do people try to stop piracy its something like the revolution of the earth that cant be stopped


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## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 6, 2007)

Absolutely right entrana most of the students can't afford to purchase softwares like for example AUTOCAD(heard it costs a lot) but we need then so we pirate them.And anyways we are never going to buy the original versions(cos we can't afford) and this in turns help the developers as their product gain popularity.

If you can't afford it then pirate it if you really need it.


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## nish_higher (Sep 6, 2007)

piracy cant b stopped at least i cant think that happening in india and i wont say that i have not used\am not using a pirated software.for me its ok-u decide what u wanna do and nobody is ever gonna call u a pirate-coz i dont see anything like that happening.do whatever but dont earn using pirated stuff.one thing really bothers me when ppl ask me about links to cracked softwares.also feels bad seeing ppl getting stuff for free while i save every penny to buy the stuff i need  .maybe i made biggest mistake of buying vista and other softwares  .should have got it off torrent.there should be some system man..!


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## sakumar79 (Sep 7, 2007)

@entrana - people pirate not only because they cannot afford it... Sometimes, people can afford it but are either uneducated or dont care that they pirate. This is typically the case with Windows - these days, paying 4k for the OS is feasible, but many people prefer to pay 50Rs to the local assembler or dont even know that the 50Rs hidden cost is included in the system assembling charges....

Arun


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## entrana (Sep 7, 2007)

i was just coming to that
and of course people prefer pirated cuz its cheaper, but we musnt forget there are also people buying the original which are millions in number.
and what im trying to say is piracy is kinda like illegally legal. i mean its illegal but we made it like legal. we cant really say that piracy is right, but i dont have a problem in it as long as im getting what i need why bother for the original if ur gonna get the same features.. now for example, i can afford windows vista BUT why would i wanna spend 10k for what i cna get for 100 rs
and m$ cant say theyre losing the money, because they never earned the money in the first place. why dont they just be happy with what they have, its already too much for someone to posses damn greedy b******s


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## fieldgunner (Sep 16, 2007)

Piracy follows the simple rules of supply and demand.It is not really subject to oversimplification as "right" or "wrong" because these are relative terms.
It exists because there is a need for it, and the only way to combat piracy is to eliminate the need.
The onus for this lies with the software giants, the media and music companies and the gaming companies...not with the users. There is no denying that there is a certain element of corporate greed that is obvious in  software pricing. Pirates provide a rival service. If it is against the business interests of the originators they are most welcome to try their best to secure their software. But they cannot pass "moral" judgement on pirates and users of pirated software....Its all about the money and thats a fact


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## entrana (Sep 16, 2007)

excellent answer


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## fieldgunner (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks dude and i hope you were referring to my post...

A little amplification here...

I personally am a user of pirated, genuine and open source software.
I really dont mind paying for something that I am using. But i dont often have a choice...

I was using pirated 3ds max until about two years ago. Now had I been the person (or company) who had spent money and time on coding the software I can empathize with wanting to recover my investment and wanting to make a neat profit too.After all...its my intellectual property and i can sell it for whatever price i want. but my need to make a buck(not that there is anything wrong with that) does not eclipse somebody else's need to use my software. now i either make it available to many people by asking for a reasonable price... or someone else will. That person...the pirate...will also spend some money and time on cracking the software...so my logic for coding a software which people want and asking for a price for it actually applies to him too!

I shifted to Blender about two years back and have never regretted that decision...however i do continue to use pirated Photoshop...just because GIMP never cut it for me.

I have bought genuine Movies, Music and Games...even when they were expensive... but especially in India...money is often less of a concern than availability. It's not my fault that a particular game that I want to play is available at my neighborhood seedy cybercafe on a pirated DVD but not to be found in any of the glitzy malls and Planet Ms or what have you. The company cannot blame me for using a pirated game if it, in it's own wisdom has failed to make it reasonably available through legal and genuine outlets!
After all it has made that game for people like me who want to play it...

So while I don't support piracy and do try my best not indulge in it...when i do indulge in it it doesnt cause me sleepless nights and i certainly dont subscribe to the antipiracy lobby's view that piracy is the same as simple theft.

I say to them...make yourself available and cheap as a part of your business strategy...appealing to the conscience of the consumers is poor business. think of pirates as rival businesses providing in demand services at lower cost than yourself... and the answer to your piracy related losses will present itself automatically


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## ajex (Sep 17, 2007)

even pirates group also write in their NFOs ..that support the developers...if u like it then buy it!! .....but only a few like to buy it


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## entrana (Sep 17, 2007)

^^they just say that


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## Harvik780 (Sep 17, 2007)

I have discussed the status of software protection with some groups and they have confirmed that they have worked on projects for developing hardware based software protection which is based on the *A.T.A.* technology,these groups do not want to be know publicly and I can't give any info on this technology the only thing i can tell is that to break this type of hardware protection one would need to emulate *A.T.A.* based instructions with a processor which as told by them will never be possible because the *A.T.A.* hardware forbids any resources to the hacker as its specifically optimized.So its not possible to read anything.
What the group says that lacks to develop such technology from corporate companies is brain power.

And BTW there are a lot of other things one should wonder thinking about like the *mighty* future that's ahead of us.


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## major9 (Oct 12, 2007)

These guys forgot whose going to buy their stuffs i.e middle class. If they price it according to the capacity of the middle class, who will go for pirated ones. As for piracy in the entertainment industry most people don't take the risk of loosing their money to watch a shitty film. Instead they take the pirated copies & watch.


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 13, 2007)

I would say Piracy is the number 1 reason many softwares are so popular. Best example is MS Windows.

I believe the real reason people pirate windows, is because it is so easy to do so. You dont pay for Windows and it does everything you want it to do including running your games/movies/software whatever. It's so convenient. Moral/Legal issues apart, why would anyone want to pay for it?

Imagine for a moment that it was not possible to pirate Windows XP/Vista, no matter what you tried to do. No hack or crack would work. In developed countries like US, people might still buy branded PCs/laptops with preinstalled windows, but in a country like India, that could really boost the popularity of free operating systems (read Linux). 

If suddenly there were so many users for Linux in our country and other developing countries, it would result in a huge online community for support and advice. As the community grows and people become used to Linux, there would be no real reason to return to Windows.

And that could really spell the end of the domination of Windows in developing  countries. I really believe M$ are shooting themselves in the foot by going ahead with this WGA stuff and making windows harder and harder to pirate. I really hope and pray they are successful in making windows impossible to pirate (or atleast too difficult to be practical to pirate).

That day would be a golden day in the history of Open source software


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## infra_red_dude (Oct 13, 2007)

gulgulumaal said:
			
		

> I really believe M$ are shooting themselves in the foot by going ahead with this WGA stuff and making windows harder and harder to pirate. I really hope and pray they are successful in making windows impossible to pirate (or atleast too difficult to be practical to pirate).


You are wrong. MS wants a balance between legal and pirated copy users to keep its market share. Otherwise why would all the activation and WGA methods be cracked in almost less than an hour or being released??!! If they make their products hard to pirate then except some developed country MS will completely lose its market share.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Oct 13, 2007)

^^M$ actually support piracy in countries like ours.They know most people can't\won't buy windows at any cost and if they don't use windows then they lose their customers to Linux....So what do they?they do nothing to stop piracy in these countries.Tell me why are they providing IE7 without any WGA check now?

Windows piracy is the main obstacle in the path of Linux becoming the most used OS.


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 13, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> You are wrong. MS wants a balance between legal and pirated copy users to keep its market share. Otherwise why would all the activation and WGA methods be cracked in almost less than an hour or being released??!!



That's an interesting viewpoint  
Maintaining a balance between legal and pirated versions?? I dont think so. 
M$ is doing everything they can to stop piracy. WGA and activation are being cracked because hackers are smart. 



			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> If they make their products hard to pirate then except some developed country MS will completely lose its market share.



That's exactly what they're doing now. Vista is not easy to pirate. And if they fix the crack that's doing the rounds now (I dont want to give details here, but I hope u know what I'm talking about), I think u wud pretty much have to flash ur BIOS to use Vista peacefully. And that's not a very easy/safe thing to do.


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## SunnyChahal (Oct 14, 2007)

A vista pirated version came which is pre activated needs not crack nothing and works like original one than who will buy the original one?


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 14, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> ^^M$ actually support piracy in countries like ours.They know most people can't\won't buy windows at any cost and if they don't use windows then they lose their customers to Linux....So what do they?they do nothing to stop piracy in these countries.Tell me why are they providing IE7 without any WGA check now?
> 
> Windows piracy is the main obstacle in the path of Linux becoming the most used OS.


For misers like us they come up with <drumroll> Vista Starter Edition </drumroll>  - The most retarded OS ever(tm)
The only serious competitor is XP starter edition 

IE7 is being offered without WGA for 2 reasons

1) Official reason - M$ is tired of supporting and bug-fixing a stupid and insecure browser like IE6. The more of ie6 around, the more headache it is for everyone including M$

2) Unofficial reason - Shameless self promotion of IE7 user base. They want pirates also on board to increase user base. 

But they key difference here is that ie7 is free (cost) whereas Windows is not. M$ doesnt lose anything in a person pirating (cant really call it pirating) IE7. It has everything to gain (one more user of ie7 and 1 less user of firefox). On the contrary a person/dealer who pirates windows could mean one copy less of windows sold...which is what they want to stop.

I know M$ is well aware of their need for windows to be pirated and used in places where people dont buy windows. After all, for M$, a user using pirated windows is any day better than the user using a non-M$ operating system.

I just hope they succeed in their pursuit to make Vista tough to pirate.



			
				abtom said:
			
		

> A vista pirated version came which is pre activated needs not crack nothing and works like original one than who will buy the original one?



I'm not an expert at Vista pirating so I dont know 
Even if such a version exists, I'm sure M$ will keep fixing it with their windows update and WGA stuff.


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## SunnyChahal (Oct 14, 2007)

it cant be coz its pre activated.


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 14, 2007)

abtom said:
			
		

> it cant be coz its pre activated.



It can coz a future WGA update can blacklist ur key.


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## SunnyChahal (Oct 14, 2007)

it has no key dude.
no KEY setup/.......


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 14, 2007)

abtom said:
			
		

> it has no key dude.
> no KEY setup/.......



If it has no key, then it's just an activation crack. Sure to be busted pretty soon 
Or it's an OEM version for which u need an OEM BIOS (original or flashed).
Did u try it out?


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## SunnyChahal (Oct 14, 2007)

yup i did.
it is gud and working fine with update.
but vista SUX big time overall


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## The_Devil_Himself (Oct 14, 2007)

gulgulumaal said:
			
		

> It can coz a future WGA update can blacklist ur key.


yar Pirated windows users dont worry much about windows update and BTW what is gonna happen even if the bust\blacklist our key?They will say ok now that you have a pirated copy of vista which you are already using you can buy an original key at 50% discount and I wud say kiss my arse M$.

this discount thing has happened to me(but the product wasn't windows but****).


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## SunnyChahal (Oct 14, 2007)

**** what?
PM plz.


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## infra_red_dude (Oct 14, 2007)

gulgulumaal said:
			
		

> M$ is doing everything they can to stop piracy. WGA and activation are being cracked because hackers are smart.


You mean to say ALL the people working at MS are so dumb that even an amateur can crack WGA in a few hours. Not once, not twice but everytime? They are developing WGA (saying that its not a check, it just a tool to educate people about the genuineness), to show the world that they are worried about piracy but also make it easy to break into to see that pirated software hampers the use of OSS.



			
				gulgulumaal said:
			
		

> That's exactly what they're doing now. Vista is not easy to pirate. And if they fix the crack that's doing the rounds now (I dont want to give details here, but I hope u know what I'm talking about), I think u wud pretty much have to flash ur BIOS to use Vista peacefully. And that's not a very easy/safe thing to do.


Vista is very easy to pirate and MS can't do anything. If they do anything to stop it then no OEM will be able to bundle Vista pre-activated. Anyways, I'll limit my post here as its against to rules to even discuss the techniques used in piracy, even tho you are not supporting it.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Oct 14, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> You mean to say ALL the people working at MS are so dumb that even an amateur can crack WGA in a few hours. Not once, not twice but everytime? They are developing WGA (saying that its not a check, it just a tool to educate people about the genuineness), to show the world that they are worried about piracy but also make it easy to break into to see that pirated software hampers the use of OSS.



Completely true.Vista's WGA was cracked within minutes of its release it clearly indicating either there was some inside help or the wga was made to be cracked.

This is simple guys M$ is happy as long as the people are using windows whether it is pirated or original.They earn enough from sales in developed nations and govenrment\corporate agencies.


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## viruses (Oct 14, 2007)

Its Perfectly Allright


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## gulgulumaal (Oct 14, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> Vista is very easy to pirate and MS can't do anything. If they do anything to stop it then no OEM will be able to bundle Vista pre-activated. Anyways, I'll limit my post here as its against to rules to even discuss the techniques used in piracy, even tho you are not supporting it.



Yup...I have a lot of questions here, about Vista pre-activation and stuff (AFAIK for OEMs to bundle Vista preactivated, the BIOS needs to be from the OEM and consistent with the OEM certificate, u cant use a generic BIOS), but as u said it's probably not a right thing to discuss on this forum. Some things are best left unsaid


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## The_Devil_Himself (Oct 14, 2007)

^^we have Pms for that.Use PMs.
BTW yaar WGA was never made to stop piracy.M$ love piracy.They hate seeing people using OSS instead of their products.


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## Abhishek Dwivedi (Oct 14, 2007)

well its not da update problem...many ppl using windows dont even update...dey r happy with what dey have....and even if dey update...dey do it manually or get it done by sum stupid hotfix spftware which installs updates without ne damage to dere pirated version....


I remember a case when ma brothers frnd was downloading sumthing frm MS website on his pirated XP-2 and wehn downloading was over dere was a POP UP kinda sumthing blinking everywhere on his desktop about pirated Windows and how he can make it genuine...dat popup kinda stuff was frm MS...but he soon jumped on 2 a wazer site and download a keyzen for XP and updated his key...and wola...da pop up was gone and he cud DW everything frm MS site now without dat popup....


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## max_demon (Oct 14, 2007)

Sony Has done best way to stop piracy , introduced UMD .

i have to try hard to find a game , thereore NO PSP (btw i can d/l)

i am happy to be a pirate , for leaarning purpose . like , if we can not afford office and want to learn it , would'nt it be difficult?


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## major9 (Oct 18, 2007)

Pirates will easily find a way to bypass restrictions put on by a company. The only reason why UMD is not available is because sony is not making blank UMD's for the public.


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