# "Prosperity can't happen in democracy"



## rhitwick (Jul 6, 2011)

"Prosperity can't happen in democracy"

This is what I'm realizing everyday. How wrong am I?


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## Renny (Jul 6, 2011)

I assume you are talking about economic development leading to an overall rise in per capita income of the people?

Partially you're correct, an authoratarian regime can build infrastructure with great speed and implement reforms with almost zero opposition,
In a democracy it land aquisition for infra projects and implementing reforms would take a lot of time due to oppostion parties/people's opposition,
Imagine mass corruption in an authoritarian state - none can question/expose the ruling class, but in a democracy we can question and even sack the "rulers",

Prosperty can happen in both a democracy or an authoritarian state, basically what matters is the way the people work and to some extent honesty.

-Stop propagating the caste system, have no caste census and don't divide people into castes, everyone is equal and is first an Indian and then comes your religion, thats it, no more extensions like caste etc. 

-Stop favouritism/petty politics especially in PSUs.

-Focus on indigeneous development rather than importing - for this a strong industrial base is needed which India lacks to some extent.

-Focus on infrastructure development to create better supply chains, compensate well those who have parted with their land.

Well these are some things we could do to make our democracy more efficient.


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## tkin (Jul 6, 2011)

You are absolutely right, too many choices spoiled our population.


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## rhitwick (Jul 6, 2011)

When I compare our time with ancient times...when various kings used to rule our land.

So much more they had done for public. They ruled us, tortured us but at the end to leave their impression on history they had done things that were actually good for that particular region. Sometimes for nation even.

In democracy you can't make everyone happy. Someone or other will always oppose your steps.


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## doomgiver (Jul 6, 2011)

wrong. prosperity can happen in a democracy, in an ideal case, that is.

irl, everyone rushes to fill their bank accounts and try to fsck other people up so that they can take their share too.

no matter what is the state policy, there will ALWAYS be some form of corruption or misuse. you cannot escape it, its human nature, built, sewn, hammered, riveted, welded and fevi-quik'd into our very genes.


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## MatchBoxx (Jul 7, 2011)

So, you support the Chinese Government(PRC) ?


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## Liverpool_fan (Jul 7, 2011)

Wrong. Check out the European Nations.

Prosperity cannot happen in a democracy in which majority of the population is so backward that they will never make a correct choice and choose wrong leaders based on their medieval standards of living. And what's the alternative? Cleverly disguised form of Fascism which is called Communism?


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## gagan007 (Jul 7, 2011)

Our friend rhitwick here is so dejected by the ongoing scams and scandals that he has lost faith in people power (democracy).

Please vote next time. And if possible, do not vote for the corrupt. If not successful, try next time and the next time and the next time until you succeed. I believe not all in this country are dishonest. Please be part of anti-corruption organizations NGOs and rallies. If this is not possible be brave enough to wage a war against corruption at personal level. You will definitely see a change. Government does not fear Supreme court that much as they fear common people.


About this "change" thing, I have two motivational stories that I would like to share with you. Kindly bear with me.

First one, maybe heard/read by some of you in newspaper.
"Once I was jogging at the shores of Arabian Sea like every morning when I saw a crazy man who was throwing stones into the sea. I ignored him and ran ahead. When I passed through the same point again, that man was still throwing stones into the sea. But as I could get a clear view of him this time, he was not "looking" crazy. That gave me courage to go closer to him. I realized that he was not throwing stones, but it were star fishes who were stranded on the beach due to high tide and strong waves. That kind gentleman was trying to save the lives of poor creatures. I went a little more closer and asked him why was he doing such futile efforts. It is not gonna save lives of all the millions of star fishes on thousands of beaches around the globe. It is not going to make any change. It does not matter.

That crazy fellow kept throwing the starfishes, and then took a fish, showed it to me, threw it in water and said "it matters to him" 




I do not know if the above story was real or just made up to motivate people but this second one happened in front of me.
Not more than a week ago when I was going for work as usual. Alongside outer ring road, there are service roads (a narrow two lane road) for small vehicles like cars, autos and bikes. I am also using that regularly. So one day I am in my car waiting in the queue. Cab drivers and autos as usual who do not care about the civil sense, disregard queues and drive on the wrong side of the road to overtake people in queue. This results in jam at the point where they approach vehicles coming from other side. I found it best just to wait in the queue. But the man behind me in a black Scorpio had enough of this. That person, everytime he saw a cab/auto approaching from wrong direction, got out of his vehicle and stopped those people. I was not surprised to see that as soon as he moved back to his vehicle, those guys went ahead paying no heed to his advice. Few of them tried to run over this gentleman. Few minutes later I saw another person joining the cause and they made a cab move back to join the queue.

To be honest with you guys, I didn't step out of my car but it certainly motivated me to do something when I see things going in wrong direction. I am sure next time such thing happens, I will surely be on road. Whether I am able to stop anyone or not, I am sure it will change few minds like I did.


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## Stuge (Jul 7, 2011)

First :    Democracy in India isn't matured 

Secondly :Root cause of our problem that we are facing today   is over-population .121billion Gosh !! .MOst of the people are poor and backward.


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## rhitwick (Jul 7, 2011)

@Gagan, incidents you have mentioned are from personal level change. I'm talking about large scale events. 

@Gagan and @Stuge, Dictatorship, if not always, sometimes benifits a nation.

Only thing is strict implementation of law would do that in democracy too. But the diff. is in democracy someone would file a PIL and the law would be stalled for infinity to come into light.

In democracy Govt. just can't force people to do something. Maybe the action would in long run not only benefit the common men but help prosper our nations, still the implementation would go unde so many reviews, cases, changes that the actual implemantation would be irrelevant when it would be approved for implementation.

In democracy, common men are tortured and their voices are muffled to fullfil a decision/wish of the then dictator.

Sometimes the wishes are crazy but sometimes they actually help the nation.


@sammy, china has communalism and every other country has capitalism. 
Communalism says equal wealth (or in other words you have nothing to call your own, everything belongs to govt.) and in capitalism you can own things.

Capitalism makes rich and poor division and communalism has uncertanity.

I'm not ashamed to say that I prefer capitalism. I think it actually pay me what I deserve or I earned for my hard work and intellect. I think If I earn 2k per day, I deserve it and if you don't, you lag in some aspects than me.

I've thought a lot about it and I found even strict implementation of law is only possible in dictatorship. May be I'm too overwhelmed by the happennings around me and I fail to see the ray of hope beyond these.


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## abhidev (Jul 7, 2011)

i think the root cause of all the problems is corruption.....if it can be stopped then development can be much faster.....


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## Deleted member 26636 (Jul 7, 2011)

Liverpool_fan said:


> Wrong. Check out the European Nations.
> 
> Prosperity cannot happen in a democracy in which majority of the population is so backward that they will never make a correct choice and choose wrong leaders based on their medieval standards of living. And what's the alternative? Cleverly disguised form of Fascism which is called Communism?




very well said...


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## doomgiver (Jul 7, 2011)

both communism and capitalism are evil.
communism takes away the basic reason for trying hard and putting in good efforts by making them equal to that done by others, even if they have not done half of what you have done.
capitalism corrupts the person and forces him into a rat-race and he is forced to work harder in order to keep up with the rest.

in one system, individuality is repressed, in the other, exploitation is encouraged


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## revolt (Feb 22, 2012)

Prosperity will never come by doing stupid acts it is achieved  by revolutions.We should start a revolution against those who we think are not quite right.Not towards the entire government.
But before taking the step we should be 95% sure that we are taking the right step and it will be beneficial for 100s of people atleast.


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## ico (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree with revolt.


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## tkin (Feb 22, 2012)

Spoiler



*www.206proof.com/forum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/user%20created/diethreaddie.jpg



Revolution? For what? We are discussing why Democracy actually hinders progress(everyone thinks differently).


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

List of modern dictators - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not one prosperous country there.Add gross violation of human rights to existing poverty if you want dictatorship.

All the wannabe revolutionaries should understand that Democracy is the least worst system out there.It can work fairly well with regulated capitalism.


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## Faun (Feb 22, 2012)

Revolutions end up providing opportunities to a authoritative regime.


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## patrick4 (Feb 22, 2012)

I would much rather prefer to live in a Monarchy (or maybe i just have been playing too many strategy PC games and watching too many movies).. But jusy hear me out.

Imagine a Monarchy (kings rule) where there are well defined laws and the appropriate means to execute them. King is unconditionally loved by all his subjects. (if you dont like king, you are murdered ot jailed)

Dont all companies/ workplaces in the world follow the monarchy system. King is CEO 
law makers and executers are the HR. If you dont like your CEO you are screwd..

If we can learn to accept such a system at work and still live with it, why not extend it outside at a macro level..

Sorry, maybe a little offtopic.. but seemed to fit the general context..


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

^^See North Korea.


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## Faun (Feb 22, 2012)

^^or better Egypt.


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## revolt (Feb 22, 2012)

lol prosperity and democracy without a revolution is like a food without salt.Revolution is by default accompanied when you take these two names.Anyways it was for those who did not understood what i had stated earlier.

The main fact is decision.Only few people in this world has the ability to make right decisions.
I'll elaborate on this matter later.

Btw @arsenalgunner dude please have the courage to tell something directly.If you have anything against me quote my post and directly let me know it.I am not here to argue with anybody.What i am here is what i am in the real world too.
I take it you had me in your mind when you stated "wannabe revolutionaries".Let me tell you nobody wants to be a revolutionist for no reason until and unless he/she is foolish enough! It is not a post,icon,dream or any that sort of thing that someone craves for.It is a feeling which comes out when you are pushed behind a certain line by someone.

A revolution can be started by a single person but is very difficult to make it a success by only one person.
What i meant was everyone who is taking part in that revolution should have the same feeling which that single person have.It should be in sync.Proper knowledge that why are you doing it and will the outcome of it really benefit 100s of people.(Not like these days where people just to become famous or fulfill their personal desires joins it)
Mind it this is a very dangerous act.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

No.It was a point in general.
What I will tell you is try to write your points in a way that others can easily comprehend.


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## revolt (Feb 22, 2012)

^^Thank you exactly like this way.If you have anything just say it i wont rebel against that if it is ok.
Anyways i will keep that point in mind.


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## Desmond (Feb 22, 2012)

rhitwick said:


> "Prosperity can't happen in democracy"
> 
> This is what I'm realizing everyday. How wrong am I?



Prosperity can't happen in democracy *with corrupt leadership*.


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## gopi_vbboy (Feb 22, 2012)

Well revolution in a country can be a funded one by foreign country to overthrow government.Revolution not always necessarily give us good form of government unless the cause comes from people truly. 

USA has economic hit-mans all around world. They always can try to destabilize government in the name of development/change.Thats what happened with vietnam,libya and iraq.

In case of libya, the govt was very good , people were just brainwashed, rebels were given money and govt was overthrown and we know the fate of Gadaffi.


So for India dictatorship will not be suitable if its misused by foreign countryto take control.I also don't believe revolutions will not necessarily bring good form of government.


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## Liverpool_fan (Feb 22, 2012)

Prosperity comes with evolution, revolution is the last resort only when things go out of order.
If anything our nation needs, is a revolution in mindset (or to put it straight to get rid of the retarded mentality),  which most Indians either choose to have, or are carry it due to society expectations. This will resolve problems we face as a modern and open mindset would bring right evolutionary changes.


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## patrick4 (Feb 22, 2012)

Could you all please clarify..

What exactly is your under standing of prosperity? if you think prosperity means only quality of life.. then its different for different people and YES, india as a country is prospering.. If you are talking about prosperity at absolute monetary terms at a macro level (GDP), then YES again.. India is prospering..

Its not a question of prosperity will happen or not.. its at what rate it happens that really matters.

Secondly, why is everyone giving realtime examples of what is happening in other nations to prove a point which is mostly hypothetical..


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

Real world examples are the best way to check if a hypothesis works.


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## Desmond (Feb 22, 2012)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Well revolution in a country can be a funded one by foreign country to overthrow government.Revolution not always necessarily give us good form of government unless the cause comes from people truly.
> 
> USA has economic hit-mans all around world. They always can try to destabilize government in the name of development/change.Thats what happened with vietnam,libya and iraq.
> 
> ...



Someone saw Zeitgeist:Addendum 



Liverpool_fan said:


> Prosperity comes with evolution, revolution is the last resort only when things go out of order.
> If anything our nation needs, is a revolution in mindset (or to put it straight to get rid of the retarded mentality),  which most Indians either choose to have, or are carry it due to society expectations. This will resolve problems we face as a modern and open mindset would bring right evolutionary changes.



I think we need a revolution. The government is lying in shambles and needs a thorough cleanup. But, hardly anyone is interested in changing the government. Everyone is more obsessed with entertainment and gossip. This is what the politicians want, that everyone be entertained and no one stand up against them. A few who give a damn cannot do anything much either.

Everyone say that they support Anna's campaign and show their support by liking random Anna related pages on FB, all the while lying in their AC room on their comfy sofa within the confines of their homes. How do you think can there be a change in the government?
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liverpool_fan (Feb 22, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I think we need a revolution. The government is lying in shambles and needs a thorough cleanup. But, hardly anyone is interested in changing the government. Everyone is more obsessed with entertainment and gossip. This is what the politicians want, that everyone be entertained and no one stand up against them. A few who give a damn cannot do anything much either.


Yes but it's not only the government; clerk to CEO, chaiwalla to politicians, management to panchayat, mechanic to techie, shopkeepers to shoppers, students to teachers all of them are corrupt/small time/selfish morons.
And let's face it, Who elects the government? Who votes for the parties who clearly play caste and religion based politics? Everything comes up to small time, narrow and selfish mentality of the people, open flouting of rules, no true mutual respect, no civic sense and what not.
The uneducated and ignorant make poor choices while educated and moronic make corrupt choices. Instead of improving each others life, obsession is with cheating and fleecing others; moronic gossips, and justifying their shite by pretext of "culture".
I can go on and on, and on...gaaah

*tl;dr version* It's all because of the mentality of the people. Our government is the image of the nation, as it is.


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## Sarath (Feb 22, 2012)

Democracy might be bad but Dictatorship, well, that is a world of pain and a lot many wars. 

We just need to fine tune our democracy, at least everyone here should take a pledge to vote in the next elections. 

That reminds me, I do not have a voters ID


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## Desmond (Feb 22, 2012)

Why is everyone so obsessed with money????

I say everything should be made open source. This will make money obsolete. With the existence of money, people work for money, therefore, he who controls money controls the people. If there is no money, people will work for the benefit of society and not selfish gains.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

I think the advantage of democracy is that it is harder to knock down a democratic country's government. But in dictatorship, all that the external powers have to do is knock down one guy and the whole government crumbles.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

Don't be naive. People won't do anything without the motivation of money.


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## Desmond (Feb 22, 2012)

Arsenal_Gunners said:


> Don't be naive. People won't do anything without the motivation of money.



That's the point!! We are so dependent on it that we cannot do anything without it, consequently becoming ripe for oppression. Even though there is an abundance of resources to go about, certain selfish elements could regulate those resources to make us spend more, consequently forcing us to work more or take loans.

Ex. Some (if not all) petrol pump owners are known to deny people petrol by falsely claiming that petrol has run out, thus driving demand up and consequently prices.

Another example : If you get addicted to coke, you will do whatever the dealer tells you to do and pay him whatever price he quotes in order to get your fix. That mean's you are now the dealer's *****.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Feb 22, 2012)

Equally distribute money,all working for each other etc. We have heard it all before,it's called communism and it has failed spectacularly.


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## gopi_vbboy (Feb 22, 2012)

what is socialism and communism in simple terms.


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## Desmond (Feb 22, 2012)

My point is that as long as money exists, people will be oppressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tkin (Feb 22, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> My point is that as long as money exists, people will be oppressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lets burn all the money and go back to the stone age, my rabid cow for your corny horse.


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## Liverpool_fan (Feb 22, 2012)

Technically that's called socialism. Communism is just another form of fascism with the disguise of socialism.



DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> My point is that as long as money exists, people will be oppressed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



As long of life exists, there will be oppression.


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## Desmond (Feb 23, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> As long of life exists, there will be oppression.



Ya, but money is a tool of oppression.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liverpool_fan (Feb 23, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Ya, but money is a tool of oppression.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No it's just the excuse. See also: Women, Alcohol.


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## Desmond (Feb 23, 2012)

How Women/Alcohol?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ico (Feb 23, 2012)

gopi_vbboy said:


> what is socialism and communism in simple terms.


One really fargmented ideology. Even the commies don't know what it is.


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## Renny (Feb 23, 2012)

Democracy = A guaranteed way to keep India in poverty and make India never reach its true potential, what can one expect from democracy when the majority of voters are uneducated and even the educated ones look mainly at caste, sops etc? 

The bottom line is even if there were some other form of government our situation would be the same if not worse, 
MOST of the politicians and bureaucrats lack integrity and a vision for development, all they do is find ways of making money for themselves and their future generations.

We got independence from the British only to be enslaved again by our own corrupt people.


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## tkin (Feb 23, 2012)

Xccentricity said:


> *Democracy = A guaranteed way to keep India in poverty and make India never reach its true potential, what can one expect from democracy when the majority of voters are uneducated and even the educated ones look mainly at caste, sops etc?
> *
> The bottom line is even if there were some other form of government our situation would be the same if not worse,
> MOST of the politicians and bureaucrats lack integrity and a vision for development, all they do is find ways of making money for themselves and their future generations.
> ...


This, for example promise someone a cow and he will gladly give you a vote, a trend very popular in in the south, votes are being bought, not earned.


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## Desmond (Feb 23, 2012)

I read in an article once (cannot find link, will post as soon as I find it) that the Indian constitution is based upon the Government of India Act of 1935, which the British had rolled out. Therefore, today, only the rulers have changed, everything else remains the same, if not gone worse.


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## revolt (Feb 23, 2012)

Posting stuff is not going to do much change.I think all the like minded people.(most of the posters here) should meet or gather somewhere else.


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## ico (Feb 23, 2012)

I agree with my friend revolt.


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## Desmond (Feb 23, 2012)

revolt said:


> Posting stuff is not going to do much change.I think all the like minded people.(most of the posters here) should meet or gather somewhere else.



What do you have in mind?


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## doomgiver (Feb 23, 2012)

Blow up the telegraph poles!!!!
Explode a barrel of gunpowder near the parliament!!!

WTF??? IT MADE ALL MY LETTERS TO LOWERCASE???
what is this witchcraft?!?!?!


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## revolt (Feb 23, 2012)

ico said:


> I agree with my friend revolt.





DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> What do you have in mind?


Ok.we will discuss that.First select some other suitable place other than this forum or any other forum.

Btw doomgiver we are not doing moment against british anymore.


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## Liverpool_fan (Feb 23, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> How Women/Alcohol?


Often blamed as the root of "evils"


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## Desmond (Mar 1, 2012)

Liverpool_fan said:


> Often blamed as the root of "evils"





> The love of money is the root of all evil.
> Bible
> 1 Timothy, 6. 10.



Besides, people use money to get both.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faun (Mar 1, 2012)

money money money lodsamonies - Killing Floor


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## Desmond (Mar 1, 2012)

revolt said:


> Btw doomgiver we are not doing moment against british anymore.



Did you read this:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/fight-club/143447-prosperity-cant-happen-democracy-2.html#post1587391


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## doomgiver (Mar 1, 2012)

at least someone here understood the paragraph


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## isaac12345 (May 21, 2015)

rhitwick said:


> "Prosperity can't happen in democracy"
> 
> This is what I'm realizing everyday. How wrong am I?



Very. Just look at the recent histories of countries like ones in Europe. They are very prosperous as compared to India. But on the other hand so is Singapore or Dubai which are dictatorships. So in short, this questios needs more researching.


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## Flash (May 21, 2015)

* and you, look at the date of last comment.


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## Desmond (May 21, 2015)

Isaac12345 is a necromancer.

Reviving dead threads.


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## isaac12345 (May 21, 2015)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Isaac12345 is a necromancer.
> 
> Reviving dead threads.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! *thumbs up*


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## avinandan012 (Jul 10, 2015)

die young and leave a purulent corpse


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