# Is M Schumacher a cheat and an dishonest driver?



## drgrudge (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*

M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula One after the Italian GP. 

It was a good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back. 

I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.


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## Vyasram (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*

why do u say so?

anyway alonso and briatore are the real crybabies. they think f1 is fixed. lol . 

f1 will miss its greatest performer and f1 market will definitely go down next season. 

hope schumi wins this season in the last race by one pt. that wud really 91$$ off the crybabies.

next championship is gonna be all abt ferrari with kimi and felipe, hope they both share no1 status equally in the team


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*

I'm going to agree with drgrudge, Schumacher and Ferrari are cheats. If he wins this year, it will be the 3rd title he didn't deserve.
In 1994 he crashed into Damon Hill on purpose and won the championship by 1 point.
In 2003 the Michelin tyres of his closest competitors Raikkonen and Montoya were suddenly deemed illegal and banned after being used throughout the season. He won the title in the last race after the Michelin shod cars had lost their advantage.
In the 2006 Italian GP, the steward unfairly penalised Alonso and finished his chances of competing for the win whereas the video evidence clearly shows that he didn't do anything wrong. You can see the video on www.youtube.com and decide for yourself.

Schumacher is the only driver in F1 history who has been disqualified and had his results for the entire year scrapped for unsportsmanlike behaviour after he purposely crashed into Jacques Villeneuve in the final race of the season in 1997. Fortunately he was punished this time and Villeneuve won the championship.


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## iMav (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*

^^ first of all this is under no circumsatnces a clean sport .... fabio himself has played tricks .... 

it is evident success is a two edged sword .... i wonder how did a cheat win so titles so many trophies .... a cheat who has 90 race wins damn no 1 did anything i wonder why .....


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## mehulved (Sep 11, 2006)

OK let's fight it out .
Well he may have pushed things to the limits and a few times beyond the limits. But, that is not enough to justify him as a cheat. He has fairly and squarely snatched many amazing victories. He's always been a determined driver ready to push to the limits and beyond. Well, some of the aggresion is surely gonna show off in a bad way. But, that doesn't mean he's a cheat.
And always people who are at the top enjoy some favours from the authorities, we can't blame Micheal for that.


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## ashu888ashu888 (Sep 11, 2006)

well, look at the stats:

 Alonso---> 1 World Championships,   Schumacher---> 7 World crowns

Tat speaks volumes of his hard work along with the team tat has been working their ass off to get the ferrari team upto this level. If he had cheated then its not possible to cheat all the way to get a glory of 7 world crowns !!!! If he has announced his retirement at this stage then its just his hardwork tats been rewarded and not bcoz he is a loser... come on grow up.

Jus bcoz tat chocolate looking Mr. Alonso won the WC the previous year and also the Constructors Crown with Renault, its no proving tat he will Equal or even come close to wat Schumi has achieved along with his "Tafosi" Fans...

Im sorry to say but I really dnt think u knw the background of F1 and u aren't smart either buddy....It would hv been better if u had started this topic way back wen Schumi was still conducting his practise runs b4 winning the 7 WCs of F1....

I still am a fan of Schumi and still a die hard  Tafosi fan....and there is no way tat he is a Cheater...please giv us a break... He has challenged the former Finnish driver, Mika Hakkinen and the then super champ team of McLaren Mercedes in the 90s then challenged the team of BMW Williams consisiting of Ralf and Juan Montoya and still won the crowns..

Come on lets face it buddy, Ferrari, Schumi and the Tafosis are the backbone adn will never be forgotten ever, infact the older they will get, the better and remembered they will become jus like Old Wine...... 

It would hv been better if u thought of sum other topic rather than seeing ur own self beated badly in this Debate.....


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## mihirvashist (Sep 11, 2006)

> M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula one after the Italian GP.
> 
> That's good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back.
> 
> I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.




sorry i don't agree with the statement that m schumacher is a cheat...........
he has won everything fair and square.....
he deserves what he has won ....
 and i bid him farewell however there will  be always an empty space which cannot be taken  by anybody...even if renault and alonso wins Drivers and Constructors championships they'll never be as good as he is....
and yes abt his retirement..i think its right time coz when you retire when u are at ur peak ppl give u more respect and u are remembered long after...

and yes if am not wrong he has won 90 races and have 22  hattricks to his name(i.e 22x3=66  out of 90 i.e. 66/90*100=73.33%----great isn't it)......


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plz don't consider me rude but its better to talk abt topics u actully know of ..otherwise u end up making in fun of urself ..or as in this case a defeat...


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## iMav (Sep 11, 2006)

cmon man .... let me see only 5 races where it has been claimed that he *bent the rules* and 90 races he was numero uno .... wet conditions ka baap hai ye .... there's no 1 else in this sport who has instincts even closer to that of schumi ....

sena is the best

schumi is better than the best


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## Vyasram (Sep 11, 2006)

schumi ain't a cheat.

1994 australia, he wud not have been aware that he lost total control and he continued on the racing line. fine. even if he did that on purpose , itz not cheating itz just immoral, btw this is the only race he might have "taken advantage"

next up, abt the team strategy, yeah he had some in 2002 especially at austria, but what diff did it make.

and dont blame schumi for what the fia does and dont act like briatore or alonso and say f1 is fixed , simply bcoz ferrari is an italian team

and abt the monaco stopping, it was completely unintentional, a good camera angle at youtube shows it, even had he done he got the punishment he deserved , and is still in the race for the title

then i wud also like to mention that fia is not on ferrari's side , 
proof: they turned all the rules against ferrari's strategy in 2005 and literally stripped them off the title



to villenueve:
schumi's records speak for itself 90 race wins n all 8* titles , unmatched by anyone . schumi is the best so far in f1.

hope u make that 8th title


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## Dipen01 (Sep 11, 2006)

Damn..ashwin...... u seem to be more of SCHUMI hater than ALONSO lover..!!

I am a big fan of Schumi...since very beginning... Just because of some odd moments (and even he told it..ke when something like that happens..people who believe in you come to ur side..and others just oppose)...

U cant adjudge some one with 



> Most race wins: 90 (previous record beaten in 2001)
> Most race wins with one team: 71
> Most podium finishes: 153
> Most second place finishes: 43
> ...




1 is fluke...2 is fluke....10 can be flukes...not damn 90 wins....
and he is very tough driver who raced wid MIKA , ARYTON ...in times when technology like Traction Control and all wasnt that developed...

and everything was Manual... and u have had to take care of everything back then..!!

Anyways....the percentage of Anti Schumis....are negligible .. if seen on a large scale...i guess.. 1 in 1000 must be hating him..!! Doest matter....

U shuld see Every god damn race...and the percentage of REDs out there...People love Ferrari not because of brand...but because of SCHUMI... 

Well...u might argue that thats ur opinion...but all i can say i....Theres never gonna be another driver like Michael...NEVER EVER...

This is indeed an END OF ERA in Formula 1



PS:- By the if u count the misbehaviours and wrong tackles and penalties of this season itself...u ll know whoz penalised more..by STEWARDS..... check the last race itself...


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## prateek_san (Sep 11, 2006)

how can u say that is a cheat .... he is the greatest racer in this world man....  
7 championship titles....c'mon man...


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## drgrudge (Sep 11, 2006)

I wrote a loooooong post, and thought I'll post that in my blog. So you guys can see that and respond to what I said there or in this thread. 
{Michael ‘Cheatmacher’ is a cheap and an dishonest driver}
*ashwinr.com/2006/09/11/michael-cheatmacher-is-a-cheat-and-an-dishonest-driver/


Guys, you all seem to live in the present. Most of you won't have seen F1 for a long time or grown up watching that biased Steve Slater - Chris Godwin commentary in Star Sports. 


By the way, I'm not saying that he's a bad driver (he might be good - I don't care) but he got ZERO ethics and sportsmanship spirit.


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## anispace (Sep 12, 2006)

> Most race wins: 90 (previous record beaten in 2001)
> Most race wins with one team: 71
> Most podium finishes: 153
> Most second place finishes: 43
> ...



Ok so u mean to say he achieved all this with zero ethics and sportmanship.
Have u ever even watched Formula 1 coz if u had then u might have known how good a driver he is. Ok there have been some instances where he has bent the rules but tht does not mean hes a cheat. cmon man ..90 race wins is not a joke.


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## Dipen01 (Sep 12, 2006)

> One could sense from the body language of Michael and Jean Todt. And Luca di Montezemolo's eyes said it all. Its sad to see him leave, but that eventually had to happen someday or the other. And what better way to retire than to win the championship. Even if he doesn't win the championship, still the statistics above says it all. He has achieved nearly all the stats achieveable. He has been a great driver and a gentlemen. Even the controversies cannot overshadow his achievements and this span of 16 year career. Michael Schumacher will be a name in the history of Formula One, who has been a leading figure in Formula One. No driver has ever had a support like this from tifosi. Even the McLaren, Renault and even the Anti-Schumi/Ferrari people would have to pay some respect to the driver who has really made the sport his.
> Farewell Michael. Good wishes. And its good to know that you will continue your relationship with Ferrari. These 3 races will be his last, and we wish Michael goodluck, and hope he wins all the three and take the drivers' title.
> 
> *We will miss you Michael! *
> ...



Really
*We will miss you Michael! *


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## rakeshishere (Sep 12, 2006)

I have just one thing to say--Probably None coming in the future can be like this guy..He is the ultimate man..I am a big schumi fan and getting sad bcoz F1 means schumacher and schumacher means F1.


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## runeet (Sep 12, 2006)

You know as they say 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly'


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## cool_dude_prav (Sep 12, 2006)

runeet said:
			
		

> You know as they say 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly'



what has this proverb got to do with schumi???

he has neither power nor "absolute" power!!!
he is after all, a driver amongs dozens others in the F1 championship, damn it!!!


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## iMav (Sep 12, 2006)

cool_dude_prav said:
			
		

> what has this proverb got to do with schumi???
> 
> he has neither power nor "absolute" power!!!
> he is after all, a driver amongs dozens others in the F1 championship, damn it!!!


exactly .... and what a sore looser renault is they claim that the race was fixed and fabio now says he said it was a joke ..... renault sux and fabio is sore looser wen things aint in his stride


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 12, 2006)

Why don't you see the evidence for yourself and then say whether Alonso was penalised unfairly or not.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKpElvSeuw


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## drgrudge (Sep 12, 2006)

drvarunmehta said:
			
		

> Why don't you see the evidence for yourself and then say whether Alonso was penalised unfairly or not.
> *www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKpElvSeuw


Yeah.. YouTube got all the "evidence". I'm sure most of the ppl here are watching F1 for just a couple of years and cry " Shoe-me is the beeeeeeest".


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## mail2and (Sep 12, 2006)

for the first time, I'm going to agree with mav3. Schumacher _may_ have bent the rules a few times, but he isn't a cheat. Though Michael wasn't the fastest in wet conditions. Who can forget Jean Alesi? 

Find me another driver who can go faster at the S-bend(2nd turn) at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Though my favourite driver is Webber!

Grudgy, you can't claim that people who have just watched F1 are low-lifes. Even you had watched this sport for the first time some day.


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## drgrudge (Sep 12, 2006)

mail2and said:
			
		

> Though Michael wasn't the fastest in wet conditions.


Hmm.. yes. The rain master thing is all crap. He is good in wet conditions, but you can't call him rain master. He drives with Bridgestone and we know they're good in the wet conditions. Alonso and Kimi will be better than MS in wet conditions if they drive in Bridgestone. 




			
				mail2and said:
			
		

> Grudgy, you can't claim that people who have just watched F1 are low-lifes. Even you had watched this sport for the first time some day.


I'm not trying to have an authority. What I'm trying to emphasis is he had a bad tainted history. The very fact that we're discussing this topic is proof of what I'm trying to say.


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## mail2and (Sep 12, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> Hmm.. yes. The rain master thing is all crap. He is good in wet conditions, but you can't call him rain master. He drives with Bridgestone and we know they're good in the wet conditions. Alonso and Kimi will be better than MS in wet conditions if they drive in Bridgestone.



No, I don't think Kimi or Alonso can match Schumacher in wet conditions. The reason: Schumacher has 16 yrs of experience. Besides, who is stopping McLaren or Renault from using Bridgestone tires.

If you say Ferrari are cheats, McLaren are no less. Why did you not mention that Coulthard deliberately  stopped in front of Schumacher in rain in 1998(resulting in a crash) denying Schumacher a certain victory. It was the same season in which Hakinnen won narrowly. I can't remember the GP. It was when Schumacher almost hit Coulthard in the pit lane.


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## Vyasram (Sep 12, 2006)

records matter dude, and schumi holds almost all of em


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## drgrudge (Sep 12, 2006)

mail2and said:
			
		

> No, I don't think Kimi or Alonso can match Schumacher in wet conditions. The reason: Schumacher has 16 yrs of experience. Besides, who is stopping McLaren or Renault from using Bridgestone tires.


McLaren was using Bridgestone only. Only recently they switched loyalties to Michelin as  Bridgestone favored Ferrari. Their tires were custom made for Ferrari. 

Anyway next year, all the cars are gonna race with Bridgestone, then we'll see who the real rain master is. 




			
				mail2and said:
			
		

> If you say Ferrari are cheats, McLaren are no less. Why did you not mention that Coulthard deliberately stopped in front of Schumacher in rain in 1998(resulting in a crash) denying Schumacher a certain victory. It was the same season in which Hakinnen won narrowly. I can't remember the GP. It was when Schumacher almost hit Coulthard in the pit lane.


When did I say Ferrari is a cheat? 

So if you're quoting a one off incidence, then I invite you to go thro this article and see how much wrong doings of MS is quoted. 


I'll tell you guys why MS quit. He CAN win GPs, but he CAN'T win the championships. Plus he made sure that all the records were in his name. He should have quit long back when he felt he was not competitive.
__________


			
				Vyasram said:
			
		

> records matter dude, and schumi holds almost all of em


Yeah.. they say that Winning is everything. 

I never questioned MS ability as a driver. As I said earlier he might be good (I don't care) but he lacks ethics and sportsmanship spirit. 

Mikka has won 2 Championship only, but I like him every much. He's one of the best drivers around when he raced. He quit when he knew he wasn't competitive. He had the passion and loved F1. MS seems that he's driving for records.


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## Vyasram (Sep 12, 2006)

schumacher- not competitive-546546546 nominations for world's laughter awards


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## drgrudge (Sep 12, 2006)

Vyasram said:
			
		

> schumacher- not competitive-546546546 nominations for world's laughter awards


Mr. Vyasram,
You know what happened last season and the first half of this season.  MS won 5 years in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. Now dont get me started on the story that Ferrari was not competitive and didn't have the best car in the '98-'99 season.


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 12, 2006)

No one's doubting Schumacher's driving skills. But that dosen't change the fact that he has no sporting-spirit whatsoever. Winnings important but it isn't everything. If a person is willing to run his own brother off the road you really have to ask if he's an idiot or just cold-hearted?
There are so many athletes who have dominated their respective sports and haven't resorted to the kind of behaviour Schumacher and Ferrari have.
Sachin Tendulkar, Pete Sampras, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan etc. have always played within the rules and everyone respects them for that. Schumacher despite all his records has and always will have his reputation under question.


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## Vyasram (Sep 12, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> Mr. Vyasram,
> You know what happened last season and the first half of this season.  MS won 5 years in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. Now dont get me started on the story that Ferrari was not competitive and didn't have the best car in the '98-'99 season.



itz like committing career suicide simply bcoz u r not good. wud anyone recommend anyone to commit suicide if he fails in life. same way, ferrari sucked last year , but it was bcoz of the anti-ferrari rules by the fia to dethrone them. but ferrari and schumacher know they can bounce back and they have done it this season , just two pts diff now.

btw, roseberg made the fastest lap at the season start , now he doesn;t even try to do it. so should he give up and leave f1 as he is not competitive.

and i read this in one of the mags 

"the might of great persons are not shown by their continued domination, but by their strength to rise back to the top after a big fall"

ans schumi and ferrari  did that this season.


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## drgrudge (Sep 13, 2006)

Vyasram said:
			
		

> itz like committing career suicide simply bcoz u r not good.


What an analogy! So did Micheal Jordan, Sohail Abbas (both of them made a comeback as well), Pete Sampras, Mikka Hakinnen commit suicide? It's sports dude. Can Dustin Hoffman do roles like what he did in Graduate? And now that he doesn't do such roles, can you term he committed suicide?  




			
				Vyasram said:
			
		

> it was bcoz of the anti-ferrari rules by the fia to dethrone them.


Can we all know what are the so called "anti-ferrari" rules imposed by FIA? Infact, IMO it's the other way around. Alonso was penalized which many would agree shouldn't have done in the first place. Next year, we have only Bridgestone tires which favors Ferrari, etc... 




			
				Vyasram said:
			
		

> "the might of great persons are not shown by their continued domination, but by their strength to rise back to the top after a big fall"


True. Saw Tiger Woods? Got in a slump and now he's #1 again and doing well. Sampras also did that when he retired from competitive Tennis after winning the 2003 US open (brush your memory - He dint really fare well in the previous Grand slams and tournaments). 

Now we have MS who won 5 times in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. His car is looking good this season and IMO they got the best package. When he won with Benetton, then also he got the best car and he was caught using  'illegal' fuel also. 

I agree that we need a good package and an all round car to win the Championship but whenver MS won, his car was far far better than other cars. Now check the seasons when MS was around and he din't win. Those drivers were just amazing.



			
				Vyasram said:
			
		

> ans schumi and ferrari did that this season.


Not yet. 3 more rounds to go. Now let me quote what Alonso said. I'm just quoting as my memory goes. Not sure abt the exact words he said. 
"I hope that our honesty pays off and we'll come back strongly to win the championship"


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## GeeNeeYes (Sep 13, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> I wrote a loooooong post, and thought I'll post that in my blog. So you guys can see that and respond to what I said there or in this thread.
> {Michael ‘Cheatmacher’ is a cheap and an dishonest driver}
> *ashwinr.com/2006/09/11/michael-cheatmacher-is-a-cheat-and-an-dishonest-driver/
> 
> ...



i felt really bad to see such a stuckup person like you who would goto such heights to score some brownie points...

its just sad that some crazy people like you have an unexplained hatred of a person who is doing well...

it seems that you had nothing to do better than write all this crap and ferret out all these facts..

i am just 18 years, so i, on my father's advice, am not responding to this article in my usual way of writing

i feel you are a person who never will step back on your wrongs... anyways i am not interested in your tirade

what have you achieved in your life so much that you can judge people of such caliber and you dislike them just by first looks

my last words are that schumi is a driver who has been there at the top right from the beginning.. and he has consistently performed well; not because his car is good or anything but because he is a phenomenal driver

many times recently have some drivers challenged him only to find him too great a legend to rival

and all controversies regd him have proved that he was never in the wrong
even after his monaco incident, the drivers association, of which he is the unanimously elected president, cleared him of all charges. renault chief has clarified now that he was misquouted on his remarks about favouritism by FIA


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## mehulved (Sep 13, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> He is good in wet conditions, but you can't call him rain master. He drives with Bridgestone and we know they're good in the wet conditions.


OK agreed but now tell me how was he so good when Ferrari used Goodyear while opponents used Bridgestone. 
It's the ability of the driver. It's nothing to do with tyres and a bit to do with the car.


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 13, 2006)

tech_your_future said:
			
		

> OK agreed but now tell me how was he so good when Ferrari used Goodyear while opponents used Bridgestone.
> It's the ability of the driver. It's nothing to do with tyres and a bit to do with the car.


On the contrary driving in the wet has everything to do with the tyres. Why do you think everyone pits for wet-weather tyres as soon as it begins to pour?


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## drgrudge (Sep 13, 2006)

tech_your_future said:
			
		

> OK agreed but now tell me how was he so good when Ferrari used Goodyear while opponents used Bridgestone.
> It's the ability of the driver. It's nothing to do with tyres and a bit to do with the car.


Lol man. You saw the recent GP (I don't remember - I think round 14 or 15), when Fesichella overtook him, Alonso overtook him. I think he managed to finish 5th or 6th. Our rain master thought that he can drive well in Intermediate tires (when all other driver inc. Massa were in full wet tires) and lol he got f*cked up. 


@GeeNeeYes, 
I never attacked MS personally other than calling him cheap and dishonest. Anyway I've replied to you in my blog itself.


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## iMav (Sep 13, 2006)

it is not entirely true that in rain driving tires are of utmost importance, it certainly does not wholy and solely depend on it either .... rains hav always helped MSC .... another way of putting it MSC has mastered rain driving more than any 1 else on the circuit (1 out of 100s of races does not make much of a difference drgrudge)

i dont understand this ..... every1 of u has named so many drivers who tried to compete with MSC over the years but how did only MSC reign supreme over them all ..... every body wrote schumi off wen he lost the last season (anti-ferrari pole deciding system) and said that he should hav quit wen he was at the top ..... gues wat he has made a come back ..... he is 34 no driver in the current line-up is as old as he is and i dont think there are many of his age that can drive so ruthlessly perfect no matter what the conditions .... u can love him or hate him the fact of the matter is he is better than the best (sena) .... why do we all forget that schumi has been a gr8 driver evr since he came to f1 and he driven himself to victory even in the old cars .....


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 13, 2006)

i fully agree wid drgrudge. ferrari bend the f1 rules to suit their needs!


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## mehulved (Sep 13, 2006)

drvarunmehta said:
			
		

> On the contrary driving in the wet has everything to do with the tyres. Why do you think everyone pits for wet-weather tyres as soon as it begins to pour?


I meant when all are on wet weather tires. No driver can handle if the fault is mechanical. I'd like to see kimi next year in Ferrari and if he can replicate what MS did.


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## drgrudge (Sep 13, 2006)

^^ 
Mehul! You guys don't understand what the debate is all about. MS is GOOD. We all agree. Otherwise how the hell could he got all the records? But what we're trying to say is MS is NOT great or is a rain master. He is a cheat. Check the instances that I quoted in my blog and answer me to that. 




			
				tech_your_future said:
			
		

> I'd like to see kimi next year in Ferrari and if he can replicate what MS did.


Why all this crap? I never (or anybody here for that matter) say that Kimi is a better driver than MS. But personally I think he's better. Why do you want Kimi to "replicate" what MS did? No need for him to prove. That's not the discussion here. Let him be whatever he wants.


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## mehulved (Sep 13, 2006)

OK I better steer clear of the discussion as I am going too OT.


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## sysfilez (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula One after the Italian GP.
> 
> It was a good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back.
> 
> I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.


i guess u know nothing abt F1 and micheal schumacher.


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## drgrudge (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*



			
				sysfilez said:
			
		

> i guess u know nothing abt F1 and micheal schumacher.


You guess whatever you want.

And I didn't claim I know everything in F 1.


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## mehulved (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*



			
				sysfilez said:
			
		

> i guess u know nothing abt F1 and micheal schumacher.


Please don't comment on other members commenting them on the topic is ok but not on the person.


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## s18000rpm (Sep 13, 2006)

Well see it like this.... Ferrari & M.S have been DOMINATING F1 for the past Decade. 
Then suddenly the rules are changed & Renault with their "MASS DAMPERS" became No.1 for a year.  These Mass Dampers were the Trump Card of Renault Team.

Now when the FIA has banned the use of "MASS DAMPERS" Renault Team is Whining like a CRYBABY & BLAMING everyone, especially M.S. & Ferrari coz they're Winning (as usual) & now are goin to kick them back to where they belong   .

Michael Schumacher is only a HUMAN (super talented, that is), & we human are bound to make mistakes. Even God makes/made Mistake(s).

It is just so SAD that Michael Schumacher is retiring from F1. Now F1 is gonna get boring without him.

Michael Schumacher has Broken EVERY single RECORD that was set by earlier F1 Drivers. 

Those who whine like Alonso & Renault & say M.S. is a cheat   Just Try this....
Get a Formula 1 Game & play the championship, in "Seasoned Driver" mode with the Cockpit camera.
If you can get into the top 6, then talk or whine about M.S. or any other SportsPerson   

You people just sit before TV & start WHINING like Flavio Briatore & he's Crybaby Alonso,.. SHEESH !!! if you CAN't Appriciate what Michael Schumacher has achieved, then just keep quite or meditate, why talk about someone whom you cant be compared with  at any point, IN ALL OF YOUR SEVEN life.

Michael Schumacher is LARGER THAN LIFE


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## iMav (Sep 13, 2006)

i hav said this b4 this is not a clean sport .... MSC might hav bent the rules more often than not .... so has every other big name in the game .....


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## rollcage (Sep 13, 2006)

@drgrudge

No hard feelings on you .. but this time you are wrong.. man

--> MS has won 90 races .. thats not a kids work ..

and Ashwin .. Tell me Have you never cheated in exam ..... not even for 1 mark (*Such bata*)  

How much do you know that Ass ****ing Alonso .. 
He is crap .. He is the least talented driver ever to won the champianship .. 

Kimi won more races than him .. in 2005 .. Noone likes Alonso ...

He has made so many mistakes ,,so many examples

even .. Abused the  R.Donbors this season n got a penalty 
.. Tab kahan te aap 

and see this

*Mark Webber Overtakes Poor Alonso * ..  ha ha ha ha 

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=P05Ehhev6PM
 ..  

...

*I dont need to say more bcoz my frds hav already said much * 



			
				Dipen01 said:
			
		

> Damn..ashwin...... u seem to be more of SCHUMI hater than ALONSO lover..!!
> 
> I am a big fan of Schumi...since very beginning... Just because of some odd moments (and even he told it..ke when something like that happens..people who believe in you come to ur side..and others just oppose)...
> 
> ...





			
				anispace said:
			
		

> Ok so u mean to say he achieved all this with zero ethics and sportmanship.
> Have u ever even watched Formula 1 coz if u had then u might have known how good a driver he is. Ok there have been some instances where he has bent the rules but tht does not mean hes a cheat. cmon man ..90 race wins is not a joke.





> One could sense from the body language of Michael and Jean Todt. And Luca di Montezemolo's eyes said it all. Its sad to see him leave, but that eventually had to happen someday or the other. And what better way to retire than to win the championship. Even if he doesn't win the championship, still the statistics above says it all. He has achieved nearly all the stats achieveable. He has been a great driver and a gentlemen. Even the controversies cannot overshadow his achievements and this span of 16 year career. Michael Schumacher will be a name in the history of Formula One, who has been a leading figure in Formula One. No driver has ever had a support like this from tifosi. Even the McLaren, Renault and even the Anti-Schumi/Ferrari people would have to pay some respect to the driver who has really made the sport his.
> Farewell Michael. Good wishes. And its good to know that you will continue your relationship with Ferrari. These 3 races will be his last, and we wish Michael goodluck, and hope he wins all the three and take the drivers' title.
> 
> We will miss you Michael!
> ...



*We Will miss you Michael!*


----------



## kumarmohit (Sep 13, 2006)

Man cheat or not he was is and would be a legend in rallying and I am going to miss him. Wish he finishes his career on the top.


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 13, 2006)

Indeed RollCage..

 Thats why i stepped out of this discussion..

 Cant blame anyone...or ashwin...everyones has opinions...

 I wuld say i Hate ALONSO more than aswhin dislikes MSC..by some 100 times...

 I just HATE him....Dunno why......
 Lol...

 If at all next yr..I watch F1..will be supporting Kimi.. ..Still i feel he was better off Mclaren...Ferrari and Kimi might just not Mix well...anyways...that for next yr to see..

 Whatever..it is...am feeling bad..abt his retirement..


----------



## iMav (Sep 13, 2006)

for me its not a question of hating some1 .... to hate some1 u hav to know him .... as far as alonso is concerned .... he is a n00b .... how does he eventhink he is anywhere close to what MSC is ... MSC is immortal


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 13, 2006)

Still man...u can see his Attitude... he has won only 1 championship.... and some 12 GPs ( i aint too sure).... and the big share of success goes to Powerful Overall Package of Renault.... the last ENGINE failure was 1st one in 3yrs..

Anyways....i was goin Off Track...


----------



## drvarunmehta (Sep 13, 2006)

Yes and Schumacher won the 2002 and 2004 championships with his underpowered Ferrari. Kudos to him for that.


----------



## rollcage (Sep 13, 2006)

*M Schumacher is the Best .. I will miss you Schumi!*



			
				Dipen01 said:
			
		

> Indeed RollCage..
> 
> Thats why i stepped out of this discussion..
> 
> ...



DAMM RIGHT ya ..  thats why I didn't indulge in thread at TS too..

Bcoz there is No Use .. 

I just HATE him....Dunno why......
Lol...
>> Same here ya .. I dont know why .. I just hate him for many reasons infact
never look satisfied 
never appear  to a one of the lucky ones who get f1 car to drive
never pose with a smile
never seen him talking to other drivers
never ever i see him look good


I am yet to meet a F1 follower who like him 


Ashwin wrote Schumi - Ferrari = Zero ....
I dont mind that bcoz he doesnt know that he won 2 in without ferrari 
whenever a guy like him retires ...

Pete Samprass retired ...

Agasi retired ..

Navratilova has to retire this year  .. she is one of a kind

Then Some day Sachin will retire ... then too a thread will come .. and that time Ashwin will be there but on on defensive that time .. coz he know Sachin  

 Newspaper write what they get,
and what they get is .. 3-4 incidences ..
what are those incidences ... that makes people curious at such a time
are ye to cheater hai ...
 at  Imola .. what happened was wrong,
still .. they forgot to write that at such a circuit he came 5 from back 
Yes its true that .. if we put the Mass Dampers aside .. still the Renault is good .. not fast but reliable ... as u said ... only 1 engine failure after so long .. I remember at Imola2004 or 03 wen Trulli won with Renualt, they did good job But i dont say they are best ..Bcoz they also have done bad

Kimi has missed it .. bcoz of them & Ron D

ohhhhhh..  Now i think I am goin off topic  ....

byeeeeee


----------



## MysticHalo (Sep 13, 2006)

Its not Schumi at fault, rather Alonso is being immature. What does he expect Schumi to do if the authorities relegate him 5 places on the starting grid? What does he expect Schumi to do if he blows up his own engine and fails to win? Alonso is under pressure.....this is the 1st time in past two years(2 gr8 yrs. of Renault run) that Alonso is facing a competition. Last time when the Kimi was gearing up....Alonso was again under pressure...but luckily, McLaren were a bit inconsistent. The fight is not between Alonso and Schumi, rather between FIA and Renault. Again, I wish to point out....Alonso is really immature to make press comments abt Schumi being the most unsporting driver. I wont be surprised if Schumi wins next race as well and Alonso starts whaaaaaing in the press.....saying Schumi has bribed FIA


----------



## anispace (Sep 13, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> Mr. Vyasram,
> You know what happened last season and the first half of this season.  MS won 5 years in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. Now dont get me started on the story that Ferrari was not competitive and didn't have the best car in the '98-'99 season.



obviously the car matters. even Alonso was unknown b4 driving for Renault...
and just see Kimi whos a great driver but is crippled by Mclaren. so u cant say that schumi is winning just becoz he has a good car. And whenevr MS has bent the rules he has been penalised by the FIA.


----------



## mediator (Sep 13, 2006)

@rollcage......thats why i aint indulge in tis thread too.....and made  1 or 2 posts only in sacking of sachin/dada thread. Neways there's one more reason I aint indulge....and thats I dont watch much of sports/racing....i mean i dont watch TV at all...but rarely some times and that too only news!.....but in real life play a lot and race a lot on streets and have been fined a lot by thullas. Racing at night specially in cars is real fun!


----------



## kirtan (Sep 14, 2006)

It's not right to call such a great F1 driver a cheat.His track record is a excellent and i feel that's enough to speak volumes of his great talent.There been situations wherein the FIA has been strict on teams.The fact that alonso was penalised doesn't mean that it's backing schumi.It was schumi who brought back the laurels to the ferrari stable .I feel that he should be given a bidding farewell.


----------



## rakeshishere (Sep 14, 2006)

I think *drgrudge will be very happy seeing the replies and also the poll results
*


----------



## iMav (Sep 14, 2006)

i find this hard to digest .... when the fia penalises schumi everybody calls him a cheat and when the fia penallises others it is said that the governing body is being biased to schumi ..... please decide and either call schumi or fia a cheat


----------



## praka123 (Sep 14, 2006)

MS is the Best


----------



## anilthomas26 (Sep 14, 2006)

where is drgrudge ?????

hope u c the poll results......

and hope u can understand wat it means.......

and i hope.......MS retires with a stunning win......


----------



## busyanuj (Sep 14, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> I wrote a loooooong post, and thought I'll post that in my blog. So you guys can see that and respond to what I said there or in this thread.
> {Michael ‘Cheatmacher’ is a cheap and an dishonest driver}
> *ashwinr.com/2006/09/11/michael-cheatmacher-is-a-cheat-and-an-dishonest-driver/
> 
> ...



since you've chosen to _explicitly_ mention your blog, I'll prefer to reply there. Read it.


----------



## geek_rohit (Sep 14, 2006)

Grudgy...you really have a grudge on Michael and Ferrari I know, but this is ridiculous. C'mon man gimme a break. You can't see him winning is a different thing, but calling him a cheap and dishonest driver is completely insane. A driver can't go on winning 90 GPs, 7 championships with just cheating. Whadya think the stewards are sleepin? There have been some incidents which Michael had been on the wrong side, but that said he has been a good sport, he has been in F1 for 16 years, and mind you people all over the paddock respect him. Not if you are a certain Jacques Villeneuve or Niki Lauda. Michael has done more in charity and people's interest than any other driver. He has been a US ambassador, won the Laureus World Sports Awards. And if u call him a cheater you are challenging Laureus Sports Academy's complete jury. What do u think that people are foolish? You havn't seen all of Michael's races have you? Watch him race in wet races, watch his scorching outlaps and inlaps, before and after his pitstops. Can anyone on the grid match him? Yea Alonso did, last season. But he had a Mechanical advantage. Don't cry now that Schumi has had a mechanical advantage all these years, he might have, but he didn't have that in 1998/1999. He showed Mika many times what he's capable of. And remind you Michael's stats are not that easy to achieve, so mind what you are saying. And yeah...action speak louder than words. And Michael's records say all by themselves. 
Thats it. Hope you are happy with his retirement. People like you are just baised. I've been a big fan of Raikkonen even though he has been in McLaren for some years, and I welcome him to Ferrari. You need to change your attitude man. Think before you speak.


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 14, 2006)

Rohit- 
*ashwinr.com/2006/09/11/michael-cheatmacher-is-a-cheat-and-an-dishonest-driver/#comment-4613

Plus, you again seem to tell the same old story. He is not but not 'great'. Don't think that it's me who thinks Ms is a cheat. Visit Youtube F 1 videos, check Orkut Communities. As far as I know there are atleast 3-4 anti-MS communities. with over 20,000+ strong members.


----------



## drvarunmehta (Sep 14, 2006)

Check out the forums at *www.updatef1.com/ and you'll see that most people think he's a cheat.
Check the current poll at *www.itv-f1.com too.


----------



## mediator (Sep 14, 2006)

drgrudge said:
			
		

> Don't think that it's me who thinks Ms is a cheat. Visit Youtube F 1 videos, check Orkut Communities. As far as I know there are atleast 3-4 anti-MS communities. with over 20,000+ strong members.


Thats absurd actually forming ur opinion based on others. Cant u form ur own opinion?  So what if there are communites?? There is a community "We Hate India" on orkut. So what its importance?? There are similar communites "We hate Microsoft". There may be people who actually dont like Ms-Windows. But the numebr of people using windows is actually exponentially higher.

U'll always find people against someone who achieves something. E.g Sania Mirza...instead  of watching her sports people watch her outfits and Muslim clerics or whateva threatened her for wearing such outfits. Now cant they just watch her sports instead ogling her body??  
Why do people always look for negetive in every person. Cant u see some positive? 
Like someone said here if he wins u call the chairman biased to him otherwise u call him a cheat.
Let me tell u a story. There was a man who was going with his donkey. When he travelled along(besides) with donkey people called him a fool and told him he has a donkey...why doesnt he sits on the donkey. When he sat on the donkey people scold him and told him to have mercy on poor donkey by not sitting on him.

Its the similar situation with Michal Schumaker. The authorites cant be biased all the time . That would destroy the whole meaning and fun of the sports. If it were nobody else wud have been participating in it from the start.

So instead of envying him or criticing him just look his record, look how many people actually cheer him and njoy his sports. I dont see any reasong for criticising schumi.

Its not like WWE where whole thing is a bigger drama than all the K serials of starplus.
There are 1000s of ways in finding negetive in others. But before that search urself too. Just try to look positive in others....that will make ur and others life better too.

I dunno if he is a cheat. Thats none of my concerns. But then winning so many F1 and championships requires guts specially when u have so many skilled racers in front of u. And if anybody here is saying abt the quality of his car...then nobody can race in bullock cart. To win one must utilize all sort of technology. But at the end it depends on the skills of the driver to handle and control that technology!
If u further say that he won because of nitro boosters, then let me tell u nitroboosters dont have any effect on a zig zag road with frequent U turns. It all depends on the skills at the end!

And yea abt the Youtube videos......there are similar videos created by some freaks who say 9/11 was planned by US itself. What a Joke!

So lets Njoy watching his sports!


----------



## drvarunmehta (Sep 14, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> If u further say that he won because of nitro boosters, then let me tell u nitroboosters dont have any effect on a zig zag road with frequent U turns.


ROTFLMAO!!! Whatever are you talking about?


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 14, 2006)

> Woods: Schu is the greatest
> Wednesday, 13, September, 2006, 14:52 [/b]
> 
> 
> ...



drvarun bhai..the website u told..


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 14, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Thats absurd actually forming ur opinion based on others. Cant u form ur own opinion?  So what if there are communites?? There is a community "We Hate India" on orkut. So what its importance?? There are similar communites "We hate Microsoft". There may be people who actually dont like Ms-Windows. But the numebr of people using windows is actually exponentially higher.


No, I never thought MS is a cheat after watching these communities. To be honest, I never knew about these communities until recently. 





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And yea abt the Youtube videos......there are similar videos created by some freaks who say 9/11 was planned by US itself. What a Joke!


Lol man! I saw most of the incidents on TV itself. Forget who uploads the stuffs there. In all probability they can't be fake as many would have seen them on TV. So irrespective of who uploads the stuffs, the videos are real for sure. 



It seems that you post just for the heck of it. Maybe to show your authority and verbally challenge members in fight club.


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 14, 2006)

Checkout this :-

**www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4...el schumacher*

Watch Complete Video


ashwin mite say..that he never doubted the skills of MSC..but i CLAIM..MSC was and is the best driver in OPEN ERA...On WET/DRY...anywhere...

well if u talk of HONESTY and ETHICS...   to we have had...5 page long discussions...[]


----------



## GeeNeeYes (Sep 14, 2006)

i completely agree with this quote below



			
				s18000rpm said:
			
		

> Well see it like this.... Ferrari & M.S have been DOMINATING F1 for the past Decade.
> Then suddenly the rules are changed & Renault with their "MASS DAMPERS" became No.1 for a year.  These Mass Dampers were the Trump Card of Renault Team.
> 
> Now when the FIA has banned the use of "MASS DAMPERS" Renault Team is Whining like a CRYBABY & BLAMING everyone, especially M.S. & Ferrari coz they're Winning (as usual) & now are goin to kick them back to where they belong   .
> ...


__________


			
				drvarunmehta said:
			
		

> Check out the forums at *www.updatef1.com/ and you'll see that most people think he's a cheat.
> Check the current poll at *www.itv-f1.com too.



lol  
just check the poll here 
lol


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 14, 2006)

> mediator -> If u further say that he won because of nitro boosters, then let me tell u nitroboosters dont have any effect on a zig zag road with frequent U turns.



ROFL.. this point came to mind... when this Topic just started....At that time i just thought its too absurd..


----------



## mediator (Sep 14, 2006)

drvarunmehta said:
			
		

> mediator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just tried  to add some analogical spice to the current debate! 



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> No, I never thought MS is a cheat after watching these communities. To be honest, I never knew about these communities until recently.


Then why did u mentioned about the communities in the first place?? Its not a relevant point to be mentioned here. Neways if u search  for "I luv MS" I'm sure u'll find more stronger community then the one u searched for initially....just like u have the poll results here!



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> Lol man! I saw most of the incidents on TV itself. Forget who uploads the stuffs there. In all probability they can't be fake as many would have seen them on TV. So irrespective of who uploads the stuffs, the videos are real for sure.


Oh well....What does that mean?? That others didnt see the videos?? See the poll results....many ppl here must be bigger F1 fans than u!



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> It seems that you post just for the heck of it. Maybe to show your authority and verbally challenge members in fight club.


Guess u found mah weakness! But I'm not here to show off mah authority or whateva. Everybody has a right to express opinions...ISnt it?? And I hate whenever someone who achieves something is dragged down unnecessarily without proof and that too on one's own thinking.....Just because he thinks that.
If someday u achieve something great and some person unnecessarily drags u down,without any proof, then ofcors I'll speak for u!


Cheers!


----------



## drvarunmehta (Sep 14, 2006)

> Woods: Schu is the greatest
> Wednesday, 13, September, 2006, 14:52 [/b]
> 
> 
> Golfing superstar Tiger Woods has said he rates Michael Schumacher as the best sportsman in the world – above both himself and tennis ace Roger Federer, who he cheered to another consummate US Open victory at Flushing Meadows last weekend.


Tiger Woods is entitled to his opinion just as I am.


----------



## MysticHalo (Sep 14, 2006)

wtf schumi aint a cheat...he is just a lean-mean driver......and thats what u gotta be if u wanna be teh numbah 1


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 14, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Then why did u mentioned about the communities in the first place?? Its not a relevant point to be mentioned here.


I mentioned them as people think I'm hell bent to saying : "Shoe-me is a cheat". Plus if you see, I never posted what other said. I never quoted what other ppl said. I didn't even posted the contents that I posted in my site. 

By the way what did Sania Mirza, WWE and donkey stories got to do with the current discussion?   They are relevant here?  






			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways if u search  for "I luv MS" I'm sure u'll find more stronger community then the one u searched for initially....just like u have the poll results here!


Hmm.. shall we have a IE Vs Fx Vs Opera thread here? We have the Nokia Vs SE thread. What were the poll results got to do with the reality outside this board? The poll result here is just the opinions of members who voted here. 





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Oh well....What does that mean?? That others didnt see the videos?? See the poll results....many ppl here must be bigger F1 fans than u!


Let ppl like him. You think MS is god? tiger Woods thinks he is great? Go ahead, nobody is stopping you. The videos were just an "evidence" that he cheated. IF you can't see properly (due to various reasons like slow internet connection, etc..), then you can read the comments that ppl posted.


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 14, 2006)

> Responses to Schumacher's retirement
> Following the announcement of his retirement, many people in Formula One have responded to his decision and the impact it will have on Formula One.[14]
> 
> 
> ...



Just to prove that u comprise of those very very less ppl...who try to find faults in his every aspect..be it driving..be it championship...be his comments..be his ferrari.. whatever...

Whole world idolises him....

Well if he wuld be cheater..and Dishonest... Why so much applaud...!!

Ok agreed he might have done some impulse oriented actions..which might look like cheating.. but these things are very very microscopic..as compared to what he has given to F1..

Thats the main reason ppl overlook those nooks...which ur saying Cheats Cheats...Dishonesty...

He has raised F1 to next level.. ...Expanded International Exposure of this game... 

In the end...u might say U dont give a damn..what these bunch of IDIOTS say....or what Tiger Woods say...or what Polls from other F1 website says... or what poll from our forum says...or what his STATS say..

coz ur are on to your OWN STANCE.... but ill just say..that ur WRONG..


----------



## mediator (Sep 14, 2006)

@drgrudge.........Hey chill man! Ur getting angry.....I dunno for what!


			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> By the way what did Sania Mirza, WWE and donkey stories got to do with the current discussion?  They are relevant here?


Dont u like comparisons to be put in a debate?? Comparisons/analogy are the first/basic things to make a person understand a problem! Do I need to discuss their importance??
ur dragging the poor guy down unnecessarily! Others have also watched the videos of schumi. Are u trying to say they are dumb?? or cant see properly??

See there are 1000s of ways to drag a person down. But calling him cheat publicly is not OK!



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> Hmm.. shall we have a IE Vs Fx Vs Opera thread here? We have the Nokia Vs SE thread. What were the poll results got to do with the reality outside this board? The poll result here is just the opinions of members who voted here.


Now thats not OK! First u start the thread calling him cheat and making a poll for it. Then when u see that the numbers are highly against ur opinion ..u say what poll has to do with it and then u undermine the importance of polls?? Are u the only one who is aware of reality outside? Do u think others are stupid??
See u expressed ur opinion,voted for a poll. Others did so same way! Is there any difference between u and others?? U r a mod. Are u urself saying indirectly that poll results are manipulated/dont count/or something like that??

Again I say If u dont like the guy then its OK.....but then defaming him publicly is not Ok and then calling ur own debate improper is further no OK!

Neways for IE VS Firefox whateva......u started the irrelevant community thing...then u may proceed with this one tooo!



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> Let ppl like him


They do...dont u??



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> You think MS is god?


Again I say...thats none of mah concerns! I'm mahself an aspiring biker/car racer. So all F1 personalities are like gods to me!




			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> The videos were just an "evidence" that he cheated


I think only a few ppl including u are convinced by these videos! Current Poll result says 18%. Reverse the digits => 81% think he is a good boy!

See the only point for me to fight in this debate is to stop achieving personalities like him to be defamed! He might have cheated in 1 or 2 races...all do! But he cant keep on winning like that everytime! And one thing more if u watch all schumi's vids that carefully...then watch other's videos too. U'l find cheating in them too. Like I said negetives can be easily be found in everyone. If look carefully in one u'll find plenty. Rather see the positive. And the positve here is that he's an ace and had won many many chamionships and F1's and that cant be a coincidence everytime!

Neways I'm having mah exams. So showing a little inactivity in da forums. So dont get angry if I post late! I'll show mah usual self after 25 september!

Cheers and wish me GoodLuck!


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 15, 2006)

^^ 
No point in debating here when many don't know what other members are saying. 

Good luck with your exams.


----------



## mediator (Sep 15, 2006)

Thanx!


----------



## geek_rohit (Sep 15, 2006)

mail2and said:
			
		

> If you say Ferrari are cheats, McLaren are no less. Why did you not mention that Coulthard deliberately  stopped in front of Schumacher in rain in 1998(resulting in a crash) denying Schumacher a certain victory. It was the same season in which Hakinnen won narrowly. *I can't remember the GP. It was when Schumacher almost hit Coulthard in the pit lane.*


Belgian GP - Spa


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 15, 2006)

^^^
I even hav tha clip...Michael furiously ran towards Mclaren Pit... Jean Todt/Ross Brawn stopping him.. and finally Mclaren Pit Crew stopped him..


----------



## Kenu (Sep 15, 2006)

I love him .. he is a champ .. Give us a clip dude .. 

and

 edited: do not insult moderators. Consider this as a warning. Fight Club is meant for everyone to share their opinion and debate it.

*Guyz... Dump this thread .. Lets make a thread 

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER WE WILL NEVER FORGET YOU !!*

...

82 % People - 32



> abhi_10_20, anilthomas26, anispace, busyanuj, cool_dude_prav, cvvikram, deepgeek2, Dipen01, dursleyin, executioner, GeekyBoy, geek_rohit, GeeNeeYes, Kenu, kirtan, mAV3, mediator, nikku12982, nishant_nms, pradipudhaya, prakash kerala, rajasekharan, rakeshishere, rollcage, s18000rpm, sachin_kothari, soham, tech_mastermind, tech_your_future, tehnogeek, vijay_7287, Vyasram


Common guyz ... Stop wasting time in this thread


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 15, 2006)

@Kenu : NO Swearing and all dude..in this FORUM..

U must hav missed the RULES AND REGULATIONS....u better check it out..


Everybody are allowed to post thier Opinions.....and u can questions others....but not in this fashion..


----------



## iMav (Sep 15, 2006)

*manan.catch-free.com/images/schumi-sig.png


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 15, 2006)

Kenu- 
Insulting mods is your one way ticket to getting banned here. See, personally I really don't care (I'm honest) but the forum can do without members like you.


----------



## Dipen01 (Sep 15, 2006)

chill..ashwin...  new member..


----------



## Kenu (Sep 15, 2006)

@Dipen01  ... will try to be polite .. but didnt he went too far 
& Its fightclub right


@drgrudge .. I dont think I said something abusing .. that was simple slang thats all
I will follow rulz .. chill out buddy .. no hard feeling as such

and the stuff you said about michael is totaly wrong, absurd .. 

Regards


----------



## drgrudge (Sep 16, 2006)

^^ 
Let it be absurd. It's my opinion. Not many agree to it as the poll might say. I have every right to talk however I want. See all my posts, I never insulted any members, retorted to name calling or abuse anyone. Don't think I'm swear word challenged.  


Still I think MS is a cheat. Many ppl would agree to this. SS with the biased commentary will infuse pro-MS view on only.


----------



## rollcage (Sep 16, 2006)

Michael is God ...

*img.web.de/c/00/5D/52/32.420


----------



## QwertyManiac (Sep 16, 2006)

Let the world move on...


----------



## mostwanted (Sep 16, 2006)

*Re: Michael Schumacher Announces retirement!!*



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula One after the Italian GP.
> 
> It was a good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back.
> 
> I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.


 
on what basis are you sayin that micheal is a cheat???he is a vetran of the sport and won fair and  square!!alonso just a good nuthin crybaby and @#$%%@@


----------



## drvarunmehta (Sep 16, 2006)

Have you not gone through the entire post that you are asking the basis of calling him a cheat?


----------



## GeeNeeYes (Sep 18, 2006)

lol
this thread is getting no where
all points are exhausted


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## VD17 (Sep 19, 2006)

Well, i say that he is a cheat. Of course, Schumacher has been the greatest driver of his times. But he's also the most un-sprtsman like... Are you ppl. forgetting Monaco '06? when he parked the car in the middle of the track just so that Alonso doesnt outqualify him? There are a countless number of times when MS cheated.. those who are watching F1 from the pre-2002 season will know. In the last 5 years, he didnt need to cheat cause he had the best car. But even then, poor old Rubens had to suffer cause of him (Austrian GP, 2001). And FIA is also biased.. in 2000, they shifted a whole turn in Indianapolis overnight just because ferrari couldnt get the grip right (this was in MS's biography). 
MS might have the maximum number of blah blah blahs.. but the fact that he will do sink low when ppl. whoop his arse just overshadows his professional accomplishments and raise a questionmark on his character.
I think the best solution to him was JPM.. when JPM started to "danda" MS at the start of 2002 season by not letting him pass even when he should have.. it was a dose of shumacher's medicine back to him. Thank god we wont be seeing him from next year.
__________
And yeah, Star Sports was a sucker for Schumacher.. no freakin idea why...


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## Dipen01 (Sep 20, 2006)

^^^

Dude everything is discussed..This Thread is goin no where...Polls mite give better answer..


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## iMav (Sep 20, 2006)

please decide as to is a cheat .... the fia or msc and talking abt montoya every1 who has been following f1 knows that juan is the most reckless driver around ....  his stratergy is ... if its not him the 1s not gonna be ....  so better dont bring jpm in here coz if schumi is un-sproting then juan got no classification
__________
and if u renault and all havnt been playin tricks .... guess what they too hav tried to pressurize bernie as to make things happen their way or they aint signing the consortium ..... so its not only schumi and ferrari .....


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## ratedrsuperstar (Sep 24, 2006)

michael is as great as HHH in the wwe no  matter what he does he is the king of kings and a hall  of famer .flavio is just playing mind games to get in his head.


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## Vyasram (Sep 25, 2006)

michael is 10^10 times bigger than HHH, how cud u compare a geat sportsman and a show-clown


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## iMav (Sep 25, 2006)

kidhar raja bhog (MSC) aur kahan gangu teli (HHH) .....


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## aneesh kalra (Sep 25, 2006)

I will answer all your allegations one by one
How can u say that schumi is a cheat didn't alonso do the same to massa in qualifying when his renault spilled oil over the place .In a sport where  such incidents are common  and where even senna admitted to having tried to kill prost nobody is clean
"senna also admitted to trying to kill prost in 1990 season... 
In 1990, again at Suzuka the two drivers came together yet again, as Prost (now in a Ferrari) held his line and Senna hit him. Senna admitted the move was premeditated as Senna's lead in the World Championship meant he was crowned World Champion 
Prost won five races in 1990, and by entering the title deciding race at the Japanese Grand Prix in Suzuka, he was set to fight for another World Championship. The Pole was won by his Brazilian rival at McLaren, Ayrton Senna, but due to the nature of the circuit, the pole position was placed at the right side of the main straight. This was and remains the dirty side. Senna asked that the position be changed to the left, as it had more grip, and because in his view, the pole position was supposed to favor the fastest driver, and not the second placed. Track officials refuse, and the Pole position place remained at the right of the track. 
 senna fans will realiose that this part and parcel of 
As a result, Prost's Ferrari quickly overtook Senna at the start of the race. Senna then threw his car into Prost's while entering the first and medium speed corner. Both ended on the gravel pit, and thus Senna clinched the title thanks to his pre-existent points advantage. Later Senna confirmed the action, claiming that it was not fair that the FIA did not change the Pole position, nor the way Prost won the last championship."
I do not want to accuse senna he was  a great driver and I respect him the above incident only highlights that these things do happen.

.It is only because schumacher being no.1 his incident are flashed as breaking news wher as alonso's acts of shamefullness go unoticed.  Or how does schumi lack team spirit and does he do it only for the records in my opinion no.see if he had been doing this only for the records then he would hav never bounced back as he had done now and even last year when he was struggling with this car he performed well coming third after alonso and raikonnen  , a person who only runs after records can never do this .I even ask how can u compare schumacher with alonso who is just a new crying kid(*www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pmhNPdu50M) on the block who  accuses  others of cheating when things do not work out for him and one who never smiles or greets his opponenent remember it was schumi who greeted alonso last year on winning the championship.
This is the schumacher who has raced withh senna,prost and hakkinen(*www.youtube.com/watch?v=oStMJUYrI0A) who are legends in their own right.
You talk about  f1 spirit even after being arch rivals schumi was great friends with haikkanen and he does feature prominently in this formula 1 friendship video
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUnEk4DGJQ&mode=related&search=
can u imagin  any other present title rivals being so courteous to each other.
Regarding schumi being a rain master only on bridgestones his first race win was also in the wet  that was in a benetton  without bridgestones and schumacher has drove well many a time in the rains and that is why he has been named as the rainmaster.The car matters so do the tyres but the driver is more important from your personal driving experience ypu know that driving in the rain is difficult and at high sppeds this becomes even more difficult.

I have answered all your allegations against schumacher
and now I suppose that there will be no more insults towards my hero and that he demands respect in the same vein as senna,prost or haikkanen and even more.


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## VD17 (Sep 25, 2006)

Alonso's SUPPOSED cheating incidents = 1 (as per what u've quoted)
M. Schumacher's cheating incidents = countless. (history bears witness)

And as regards his friendly outlook towards other racers.. its the other driver's generosity.. not his.. have u seen that vid of how Hakkinen overtook him in spa in 2000? and how the jerk blocked him in vain? even then Mika had kind words for him...
the only reason shumacher can afford to be diplomatic is because he has broken a lot of records... he doesnt give a **** about what ppl. say anymore...


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## drgrudge (Sep 25, 2006)

^^ 
Well said!  

No matter what you guys say, he has cheated and everyone in F1 knows that. I think Mr. MS himself will also acknowledge the fact that he was dishonest after he retires.


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## iMav (Sep 25, 2006)

> the only reason shumacher can afford to be diplomatic is because he has broken a lot of records... he doesnt give a **** about what ppl. say anymore...


 ..... if u have realised that what others say doesnt matter then y the hell are u saying anything against hime or for him????


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## aneesh kalra (Sep 25, 2006)

if u are yourself admiting that schumi does not care about his enemies stupid then why are u shouting on this thread that schumi is low on ethics or what .I ask u the question that are u completely scout-free  and that u hav not even cheated in ur life even in the worst situations say u are in colege one of the strictest profs gives u a project to complete  at a very short notice for some awful act of yours  and it has to be done and u being a geek know that it can be done if u just google the project u will find it readymade then what will u do will u for the sake of ethics preapare a project from scratch with no hope of completing it and geting scolded or will u go the google way.saachi baatao aur yeh to sirf ek scolding se bachne ke liye but contrary to what vinayak has said  about schumacher the only so called low ethics he has done has done them when he was closest to the championship and these also are hardly three  so how according to u how are they countless better check ur maths and that also  because schumi is so popular tht these were highlighted and thats why this thread has been extended to 103 posts.regarding the 2000 overtaking blocks by schumi i hav seen that although it was one of the best passes i hav seen and haikanen only response to it was that it was litle difeent overtaking manouvere  schumi blocking haikannen than once was completely legitmate although fia
allows only one block because if u had seen the prost senna schumi video posted by me previously then u would have noticed that  mighty senna did the same to both prost and schumi so do u dare to say that even senna was below ethics and who do u have as a flagbearer for ur ethic brigade alonso who has won only 12 gp's and who himself at this stage used a mass damper to win last year and even this year so he is aven bigger cheat (schumacher-3
to alonso 26 or 27) since by using mass damper he cheated in every race especially because his team manager is flavio braitore who was schumi's team manager during his benetton years and according  u schumacher is unethical so his former team manager must also be the same and he is alonso's present team manager so this further prooves that if schumi is unethical then alonso is highly unethical . I do not understand why the mod is extending the debate despite my highly detailed arguments against the baseless allegations .See u hav only three against schumi and the rest of us are pro schumi this is further evident in the poll but that according to u it is irrelevant than why did u start it in the first place heeeeeeeeeeeeee
. I think u are just a part of the minority who try to find fault(or as u say grudges) in successful people because u are scared of their success and in all ur posts u hav just repeated one line ethics blahhhhh!! .the debate is now closed 43:8 because its conclusion has been reached upon .


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## iMav (Sep 25, 2006)

aneesh chillax man .... all posters know that this is a 1 sided debate .... schumi is the king of F1 for a very long time to come .... it doesnt matter even if ppl call him a cheat ....


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## VD17 (Sep 26, 2006)

aneesh kalra said:
			
		

> if u are yourself admiting that schumi does not care about his enemies stupid then why are u shouting on this thread that schumi is low on ethics or what .



PROFESSIONAL ethics. He lack complete professional ethics.. each time he sees that the situation is getting out of control, he flips out.. an amazing example of this was this year's Monaco GP.

Regarding Alonso's mass dampers fiasco.. if that was so illegal.. where was the FIA banning them? there wasnt any media frenzy about it.. or probably the MS fans got pissed and started making their own conspiracy theories. 
I'm too tired to do any research right now... or else i'll show you what my math is. And by the way, schumacher himself has admitted to some his MANY pre-1999 era cheating in his biography (forgot the name of the book). 

And yes, i've cheated. And i've been criticised for it. I accept it. I cheat the same way my classmates/batchmates do. Everyone does. But show me one driver who has as many cheating titles to himself apart from the great mister shoemaker. I dont ask this to BIASED MS fans or haters.
As regarding the poll, all i have to say that people have been misinformed. 90% of the ppl. participating in the poll have not seen schumacher before 2000. 
Well, misled public opinion is a common thing in our country. Or why else we'd have suckers like Mulayam singh ruling our state if everyone knew what was the right choice.

By the way, i'm not an MS hater. Whatever i'm saying is based on facts.. and i'm a bit too busy to spoon-feed the facts to you lot... its available on the internet.. www.google.com I still agree that MS was the greatest driver.. but he was also a cheat. This is my opinion. I have facts to back my opinion, not a misled fanboyism.


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 26, 2006)

aneesh kalra said:
			
		

> alonso who has won only 12 gp's and who himself at this stage used a mass damper to win last year and even this year so he is aven bigger cheat (schumacher-3
> to alonso 26 or 27) since by using mass damper he cheated in every race especially because his team manager is flavio braitore who was schumi's team manager during his benetton years and according  u schumacher is unethical so his former team manager must also be the same and he is alonso's present team manager so this further prooves that if schumi is unethical then alonso is highly unethical


The mass damper wasn't illegal last year or even for most of this year. It was declared illegal only recently to give Ferrari an advantage and give MS a chance to retire in glory.
Your argument about Alonso being unethical is plain dumb. How can a person be unethical simply by being the manager of someone who is unethical?


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## VD17 (Sep 26, 2006)

aneesh kalra said:
			
		

> I think u are just a part of the minority who try to find fault(or as u say grudges) in successful people because u are scared of their success and in all ur posts u hav just repeated one line ethics.



Dont make personal references here, aneesh. I can do a better psychological analysis of your seemingly frustrated behaviour to such an extent that this will turn into a full-blown fight. Lets keep this in the limits. 
And by the way, i had made just ONE post in this entire thread before this. and it dealth with ethics because that what we're talking about here (duh).
__________


			
				drvarunmehta said:
			
		

> How can a person be unethical simply by being the manager of someone who is unethical?



LMAO.


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## aneesh kalra (Sep 26, 2006)

see yaar that maths joke was not to hurt u. this is a debate chill i should have avoided this line i accept it but doc that mass damper thing is illegal because 
tuned mass dampers stabilize against violent motion caused by harmonic vibration. The presence of a tuned damper forces a comparatively lightweight structure to overcome the inertia of a great mass, such as a giant concrete block, placed in such a way that the mass only begins to move in one direction just as the structure begins to move in the other, thus damping the structure's oscillation. The counterweight may be mounted using massive spring coils and hydraulic dampers, and if the axis of the vibration is fundamentally horizontal or torsional, leaf springs and pendulum-mounted weights are employed. Tuned mass dampers are engineered, or "tuned" to specifically counter harmful frequencies of oscillation or vibration.
which is vital for taking quick corners and thats why it was ruled out quite contrary to pat symonds whose pr statement is only to fool normal enthusiasts. and doc it is  bravitore who has brought alonso so far from those karting days.


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## VD17 (Sep 26, 2006)

Yaar... as Varun pointed out.. the mass dampers were NOT illegal last year.. its just Renault found that edge and exploited it.. and it hurt Ferrari's chances so FIA banned it.


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## iMav (Sep 26, 2006)

well if u say so ..... u think ferrari doesnt know how to make dampers or they cant use them ..... i mean be a little rational ..... if they do not giv an extra edge y wud they b banned rather than other teams also using them .... thodi akal lagao


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## drvarunmehta (Sep 26, 2006)

It's not that Ferrari or anyone else dosen't know how to make mass dampers. It just didn't strike them to do it.
Banning devices that give a team an edge is plain stupid. What will differentiate one car from another than? Is anyone going to come up with anything innovative if it's just going to get banned in a few races?
This is all the fault of the bloody FIA. They have imposed so many restrictions on the specifications of the car that there isn't going to be much difference between 2 teams anymore. Plus all teams will use the same tyres too from next year. All this in the name of cost cutting measures. What use having the worlds top engineers if they make cars that are clones of each other?
Bah. If you don't have enough money don't be in F1.


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## iMav (Sep 26, 2006)

so again u r blaming fia and not ferrari or MSC .... i guess this debate is coming to end as almost all anti schumi ppl hve blamed fia more than msc


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## VD17 (Sep 26, 2006)

oh man.. WE'RE BLAMING THE FIA FOR THE DAMPERS THING!!! 
Msc and his antics were in a different conversation...


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## iMav (Sep 27, 2006)

boss chk out the entire thread and u will see that fia has been blamed more than MSC ..... read b4 typing .... its not only abt dampers


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## Dipen01 (Sep 29, 2006)

*Schumacher - My Hero !!!*

Each Sport has a figure on the world stage , Each Sport endavours to produce magic , But certain Magicians are the ones that create the magic and there charm is what enchants us and what attracts us towards them . We have'nt even met these beautiful people yet they mean the world to us ! These are not just meant to be beautiful words but true feelings of a maniac who has worshipped and not just admired the Magician of all Magicians

Enough of soft humbugging talks , let's get in your face now .

First of all , I need to proove to you the toil Formula 1 is all about , The Technical Inputs which involve it and most importantly the die-hard motivation and unparallel determination that governs it !

*Formula 1 'Phsically Demanding'>* Formula 1 involves speeds of upto 350 Km/Ph and has cornering speeds which only professionals can execute . The bravest man have admitted that just watching it drives a chill through there spines . The work that goes on in Testing is just unbelievable and the number of people involved to make two cars the fastest in the world is the ultimate endavour . Which sport has competition that narrows down to tenths and at times even thousandth of seconds !

*Formula 1 Technically Challenging'>* You can have as many strategies and managers in any sport you want but Formula 1 is by far the most technical sport of all by a distant countrymile . The strategy is just a part of the game but car-set ups , Tyre-Wear , Gear Boxes , Steering Wheels , Electronics , Hydraulics are just some of those invaluable elements . Engines and Brake Biases and another 10000 more elements are involved . It *Owns* every other sport as a technical challenge !



*Why Michael Schumacher is the best sportsman ever is as follows ! *

*What are the ingridients of a good F1 driver ? *

Talent , Quick , Technically Sound , Overtaking Abilities , Temperament , Motivation , Presence of Mind , His impact on the sport and at last his Accomplishments . 

*Talented* :- Ever since a man named Ayrton Senna stepped in the cockpit the world has said 'Who in the blue hell could be more talented ?' The answer came from a man named Michael Schumacher in Belgium , Spa Francorchamps , 1991 ! Having done a lap of Spa on a cycle he tells Eddie Jordan he has great experience of driving at Spa and guess what he beats his team mate at his first attemt . The world is taken aback as spontaneous talent was shown in this man ! The rest is as they say history . We all know what he can do in a racing car !

*youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4

*Quick* :- A man posessed who wants just one thing in every session . That top spot ! He has been amazingly quick everytime he graces his cockpit and the ability to quench out that absolute final thousandth of a second for 15 years with such amazing consistency is just phenomenol . He ruthlessly beat all his opponents in the late 90's in cars that were not half as efficient as his rivals and he did'nt do that for one session or two sessions , he just did that every time !

Monaco Grand Prix , 1996 , Qualifying : - A car not worth a top 5 spot is taken to pole by the man they call Schumacher ! 

*youtube.com/watch?v=HN2iwSCnr68&mode=related&search= - Part I
*youtube.com/watch?v=izb_Ux4XdO8&mode=related&search= - Part II

*Technically Genius* :- 'He is curious about everything and wants to know everything'. Words of Todt when Schu joined Ferrari still humming in my ears ! He has made a habbit of beating people in the pits ! If he pits first watch out for his out lap , if later watch out for his in laps , and if its close watch out for both ! 


*youtube.com/watch?v=geR84PgPqaM - Schumacher pitting first - Leapfrogs Raikkonen with blinding sector times !

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVoJNnbXA4 - Schumacher pitting second - Leapfrogs Alonso with blinding lap times to win  

*Overtaking Abilities* :- Only people who have'nt watched him race say he cannot overtake . How can you forget him overtaking Alesi in the final moments of a race on the outside , how can you forget him overtaking Hakkinen at Monza 2000 , Him overtaking DC at Indy , Him overtaking Montoya 'n' number of times and finally Monaco 2006 

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVoJNnbXA4 - Schu nailing Alesi !
*youtube.com/watch?v=5bEzWiit5jI - Schu passing Hakkinen !

*Temperament* :- Even in absolute pressure cookers this man is ice cool , many say he crumbles , I say they are fools ! To have the coolness to avoid and ignore what your arch-rival says about you with such distain and to have the entire world making a big deal out of your decision yet fending all that off and coming up trumps is one cool character ! Drives like Imola , 2006 make my point more emphatic 

*youtube.com/watch?v=WQJkztGLzyQ

*Motivation* :- To have been so competetive for 15 years , driven to limits , pushed no bounds , competed for 11 championship titles , won 7 with one hanging in the balance , led 3000 laps , won 90 races , have 75 fastest laps , above 1000 championship points and won a single event 8 times are numbers that mirror amazing , focus and motivation . Even at age 37 he stands more motivated and determined than a young champion at 25 and perhaps in his prime  . The hallmark of a champion !

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNXfbVHy_6w

*Presence of Mind* :- I can guarantee Schumacher made a mistake at Monaco , 2006 but he knew he had to manufacture something out of that mistake and he nearly stole pole position ! But i will mention you a clean and cool instance  

For his first win , Schumacher used his own team mate as a moving chicane when he times his pit stops to perfection as a younster leap frogging everyone Senna included and Herbert too 


*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdj4KDatDTg 
(Video may not open correctly , youtube error)

*His Impact on the Sport *:- I need not enhance on this as there are an amazing amount of people who started watching for Schumacher  and will finish watching with him  . However even mighty Bernie says that the sport will be affected but F1 will go on ! Yes , and he will take a million hearts with him . Stats prove that F1 watchers have increased like hell since he took over from Senna . 

*youtube.com/watch?v=ypAqUXi2CH8 - The champion - 2000 The best season as far as watching ! 

*His Accomplishments* :- 7 World Titles and Counting , 90 Race-Wins and Counting , 3000 Lead Laps , 75 Fastest Laps , 66 Poles , 8 Single Race Wins , 13 Race wins in a season and countless more records ! The man has done it all !

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sebg81ec_Tk - 

*There are many sportspersons who come flash there magic and ultimately leave ..... They leave a mark .... 

MICHAEL , (Forever the Best)*


_Credits :- Kushal _


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