# A viable option to drift away from IIT?



## GamerSlayer (Jun 7, 2014)

To begin with, I am an Indian HATER.... you know, in terms of the education system. I mean, it's really a dump. I am a guy who has always fancied getting the hell out of India for higher studies. So now, my mind has totally drifted away due to a conversation with a few people. I feel SAT is a much better option than IIT for a guy like me (who feels that India is lacking behind as compared to the other countries). Now if I wanted coaching for IIT, you get it at the end of every street of India just like a general store. But SAT? Which books to buy? Where to go? How much hard-work required (I am neither a genius nor a hard-worker)? These are my questions! I want you guys to guide me through my 11th and 12th and lead me to SAT. So, tell me what to do?

Cheers!


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## powerhoney (Jun 7, 2014)

I would like to know this too...
Maybe [MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] can spread some light!!!


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## hitesh (Jun 7, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> But SAT? Which books to buy? Where to go? How much hard-work required (I am neither a genius nor a hard-worker)? These are my questions! I want you guys to guide me through my 11th and 12th and lead me to SAT. So, tell me what to do?
> 
> Cheers!



This is the time you should start preparing for SAT. It is quite easy if you start at this stage. 
Now a couple of things -
Give SAT atleast 3-4 times in the span of 2years. Trust me it is really important.
There are a ton of study material. This is the best place for it - SAT and ACT Tests & Test Preparation - College Confidential
First you should start working on the vocabulary. IMO it is toughest part of SAT. Vocabulary is the reason that I scored just 1700  
Also give SAT subject tests.
There are many more things but my mind isn't just working right now. CC has best SAT data period. You wouldn't need to look anywhere else
Most importantly - SAT score alone wouldn't get you to a good uni. Decide what you want to do after 12th and start working on extra curricular actives. That and SAT prep should work hand in hand.
Don't prepare for both IIT and SAT. It will get you nowhere. Choose one
_
How much hard-work required_
Comparing to preparation of IIT ? 1000times easier


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## 101gamzer (Jun 7, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> To begin with, I am an Indian HATER.... you know, in terms of the education system. I mean, it's really a dump. I am a guy who has always fancied getting the hell out of India for higher studies. So now, my mind has totally drifted away due to a conversation with a few people. I feel SAT is a much better option than IIT for a guy like me (who feels that India is lacking behind as compared to the other countries). Now if I wanted coaching for IIT, you get it at the end of every street of India just like a general store. But SAT? Which books to buy? Where to go? How much hard-work required (I am neither a genius nor a hard-worker)? These are my questions! I want you guys to guide me through my 11th and 12th and lead me to SAT. So, tell me what to do?
> 
> Cheers!



Go to Newyork city that never sleeps.


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## hitesh (Jun 7, 2014)

101gamzer said:


> Go to Newyork city that never sleeps.



OT-
Why edit ?


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## seamon (Jun 7, 2014)

Score good marks in school exams.
Participate in lot of extracurricular activities. Do some social service. Get selected as a prefect in school(demonstration  of leadership qualities).
Getting an average score in SAT is pretty easy. If you want better colleges than IIT then a score of 2250-2400 is expected(not required.....expected) of you. Getting this kind of scores is a major pain in the @$$.  
Cracking the SAT requires time and patience. At least 4-5 months of vocabulary mugging(ideally 900-1000 words), grammar practice(Advanced concepts, compared to which CBSE grammar looks like Nursery grammar) and essay writing.
If you think you can escape from 11th concepts then think again. The best colleges require SAT 2 in 
1.Maths.
2.Physics/Chemistry.
SAT 2 tests all concepts of class 11 and 12.

You have to do this all while doing extremely well in class and pleasing your teachers as they are going to write your recommendation letters(1 counselor+1 Eng teacher+1 Maths+1 Chem/Physics+additional letters are good).

MIT, the world's engineering best college, requires an International Olympiad medal almost compulsorily. Getting this medal requires that you complete your class 12 course by November of class 11.
Some colleges take your interview too.

Getting admission in a college better than IIT is not at all easy. 
Also be prepared to dish out 12-18 lakhs as fees per annum. 


A comparatively easy way out is NTU in Singapore. It requires just board results. The only thing is last year cut off was 97% for CBSE.

BTW ranking for engineering:
IIT-52.
MIT-1.
NTU-22.
NUS(Singapore)-9.

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Recommended books:
1. Erica L Meltzar's grammar book.
2.Erica L Meltzar's the Critical Reader.
[These 2 books are for those who want to score a perfect 800 in both writing and reading]
3.Princeton Review(Course material is for average scorers)
4.SAT's official book aka blue book. Use this for practice.
5.SAT Direct Hits(Vocab)-Another superb book.
6.Barron's etc for more practice.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 8, 2014)

It seems that Hitesh's post and your post Seamon contradict a little. Hitesh says that SAT is much easier in comparison to IIT whereas you say it is more difficult that IIT. So, how much time to spend preparing for SAT along with CBSE?


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> It seems that Hitesh's post and your post Seamon contradict a little. Hitesh says that SAT is much easier in comparison to IIT whereas you say it is more difficult that IIT. So, how much time to spend preparing for SAT along with CBSE?



SAT 1 Math is very easy. Except for 1 question on parabola(which is pretty easy too if your concepts are clear). The only thing is timing. The trick is to solve the first 10 questions in under 5 mins and save time for the difficult, tricky and time consuming ones.

SAT Critical Reading is a major pain in the @$$. It's the most difficult part of SAT. Try a section of SAT CR and you'll know why. Grammar is okay okay. The only thing is that your concepts should be clear(especially comma splices).


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## hitesh (Jun 8, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> It seems that Hitesh's post and your post Seamon contradict a little. Hitesh says that SAT is much easier in comparison to IIT whereas you say it is more difficult that IIT. So, how much time to spend preparing for SAT along with CBSE?



SAT exams are easier but combined with extra curricular, competitions , olympiads, social work etc it gets difficult. But really IMO it is still much easier than the whole IIT process.
I started studying a week before SAT exam and scored 1700. I regret not starting early and focusing on extra cur.


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

hitesh said:


> SAT exams are easier but combined with extra curricular, competitions , olympiads, social work etc it gets difficult. But really IMO it is still much easier than the whole IIT process.
> I started studying a week before SAT exam and scored 1700. I regret not starting early and focusing on extra cur.



Not to undermine you or anything but 1700 on SAT is nothing. You can't expect to get admission in a good college with this kind of score. Getting this kind of score is extremely easy.


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## hitesh (Jun 8, 2014)

seamon said:


> Not to undermine you or anything but 1700 on SAT is nothing. You can't expect to get admission in a good college with this kind of score. Getting this kind of score is extremely easy.


I know that score is very easy. But you see I just studied a week before exam, 3-4 hour max each day. Did some essay writing and read direct hits. That's it. Such a terrible prep. 
And I know this score wouldn't get me anywhere, so that's why I didn't applied


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

hitesh said:


> I know that score is very easy. But you see I just studied a week before exam, 3-4 hour max each day. Did some essay writing and read direct hits. That's it. Such a terrible prep.
> And I know this score wouldn't get me anywhere, so that's why I didn't applied



studying for IIT now?


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 8, 2014)

So, what about scholarship ? can't we get them ? It would be better of you if you explain everything in a much better way rather emphasizing its difficulty ?

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I just saw that at average a student of MIT who has got a scholarship has to pay about $24000  !!!!  hell, now what ? 
it seems pretty difficult to choose now, please some one help us !


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> So, what about scholarship ? can't we get them ? It would be better of you if you explain everything in a much better way rather emphasizing its difficulty ?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


One has to apply for financial aid. In need-conscious schools, if you apply for aid you decreases your chances of admission.
Harvard gives a lot of financial aid I think. The only thing is that it's near damn impossible to get admission in Harvard. They reject 2400 SAT scorers on a regular basis.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 8, 2014)

Do you mean IIT is better than SAT? I mean, I am seeing totally converse of what I have heard from many people in comparison your last post!


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> Do you mean IIT is better than SAT? I mean, I am seeing totally converse of what I have heard from many people in comparison your last post!



I don't know how to answer that question.
How can you compare an Institution to a standardized test?


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 8, 2014)

He meant JEE .

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seamon said:


> One has to apply for financial aid. In need-conscious schools, if you apply for aid you decreases your chances of admission.
> Harvard gives a lot of financial aid I think. The only thing is that it's near damn impossible to get admission in Harvard. They reject 2400 SAT scorers on a regular basis.


So what basically is the criterion of selection ?well, after thinking a lot i decided that I can take up a bachelor degree in INDIA from NIT or IIT then I can take up a masters degree in US by giving SAT ? So, hows that for an option ?Is it even possible ?


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> He meant JEE .
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...



You can't really compare JEE and SAT. A good score in JEE+Advanced will undoubtedly fetch you IIT. To crack JEE+Advanced, you have to study for 2 years straight. 
Meanwhile, to crack(2300+ score) the SAT, you need to mug up vocab and practise sample questions for 4-5 months. The only thing is even if you get a perfect score in SAT, your admission in the top colleges is not guaranteed. US colleges want people who can contribute to the campus. They was fun people who have a variety of talents. 
While SAT is undoubtedly easier than JEE+Advanced to crack, but getting admission in a good US college is not easy.


For masters, there is GRE and not SAT. SAT is for undergrad. The thing is, doing undergrad from a reputed US college will give you advantage over other students for masters in good colleges like MIT.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 8, 2014)

seamon said:


> You can't really compare JEE and SAT. A good score in JEE+Advanced will undoubtedly fetch you IIT. To crack JEE+Advanced, you have to study for 2 years straight.
> Meanwhile, to crack(2300+ score) the SAT, you need to mug up vocab and practise sample questions for 4-5 months. The only thing is even if you get a perfect score in SAT, your admission in the top colleges is not guaranteed. US colleges want people who can contribute to the campus. They was fun people who have a variety of talents.
> While SAT is undoubtedly easier than JEE+Advanced to crack, but getting admission in a good US college is not easy.
> 
> ...


Why ?


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> Why ?



Because they have better ranking than Indian colleges. Acing exams in Harvard will obviously be preferred over acing exams in say IIT/NIT/BITS.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 8, 2014)

But even if i prepare for SAT and i have a good personality (in my opinion) im not sure be be admitted in any of the US universities ?So, being on a safer path what would you suggest ? as far as OP is considered he is stuck on SAT only but for me im not really that financially strong to support myself in US.


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## Faun (Jun 8, 2014)

seamon said:


> SAT 1 Math is very easy. Except for 1 question on parabola(which is pretty easy too if your concepts are clear). The only thing is timing. The trick is to solve the first 10 questions in under 5 mins and save time for the difficult, tricky and time consuming ones.
> 
> SAT Critical Reading is a major pain in the @$$. It's the most difficult part of SAT. Try a section of SAT CR and you'll know why. Grammar is okay okay. The only thing is that your concepts should be clear(especially comma splices).



Is it tougher than GRE ?

I think the normal course of action is to get BE or B Tech done from India and the go for MS from US if the person resides in India.


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

Faun said:


> Is it tougher than GRE ?
> 
> I think the normal course of action is to get BE or B Tech done from India and the go for MS from US if the person resides in India.



no idea how tough GRE is.

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nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> But even if i prepare for SAT and i have a good personality (in my opinion) im not sure be be admitted in any of the US universities ?So, being on a safer path what would you suggest ? as far as OP is considered he is stuck on SAT only but for me im not really that financially strong to support myself in US.



Only you yourself can answer your question. But if you don't have financial resources then Indian colleges are a better option.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 8, 2014)

You know, I seriously still am stuck with the same problem... if you say on getting a good score the colleges don't give admissions easily, then on what basis do they give? I mean, if that becomes the case, then no foreigner gets admission. Also, where can I get coaching for preparing for SAT? I am talking abt Delhi.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 8, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> You know, I seriously still am stuck with the same problem... if you say on getting a good score the colleges don't give admissions easily, then on what basis do they give? I mean, if that becomes the case, then no foreigner gets admission. Also, *where can I get coaching for preparing for SAT? *I am talking abt Delhi.


No, coaching can develop your personality. only coaching here is you. As i have understood in the thread (freaking) university requires productive students, students who can work for them and be better than just doing ratta last night to pass exams and due to scenario of Indian education, no Indian will qualify for what it requires, that (I assure you) if any one, I repeat anyone is able to get admission easily in anyone the reputed US univ. I will salute him.


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> You know, I seriously still am stuck with the same problem... if you say on getting a good score the colleges don't give admissions easily, then on what basis do they give? I mean, if that becomes the case, then no foreigner gets admission. Also, where can I get coaching for preparing for SAT? I am talking abt Delhi.



Top colleges take 2 kinds of students:
1. One who excels at everything. 90%+ percentage from class 9 onwards. Near perfect SAT 1 and 2 scores. Participation in sports+cultural activities. Holds a position in the school council. Is the teacher's pet. I hope you know someone of this sort.

2. One who excels at just one thing. Perhaps a Nobel prize winner. A Olympian medalist. I don't think these 2 kinds of people are found in India. Also, a medal winner at the International Olympiads falls into this category.


MIT takes 5-6 students from India each year. If n be the no. of students accepted then n-1 falls into the second category(olympiad medal winners). If you don't have an International Olympiad Medal then you are basically fighting for that one seat which is sometimes non-existent. 


Meanwhile, somewhat lower colleges like UCLA, UIUC etc should admit you if you have a very good SAT score. Nothing is "guaranteed" in the US admission process. It's like winning a lottery.

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nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> No, coaching can develop your personality. only coaching here is you. As i have understood in the thread (freaking) university requires productive students, students who can work for them and be better than just doing ratta last night to pass exams and due to scenario of Indian education, no Indian will qualify for what it requires, that (I assure you) if any one, I repeat anyone is able to get admission easily in anyone the reputed US univ. I will salute him.



Well summed up. US universities hate the nerdy type of guys who only excel at studying. They want their campuses to have fun kind of students.
Meanwhile.....

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Even he couldn't get into MIT.....


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## hitesh (Jun 8, 2014)

seamon said:


> studying for IIT now?



That was an year back. Right now studying in IPU

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Faun said:


> Is it tougher than GRE ?



Same level IMO (respectively for 12th pass-outs and graduates)

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Faun said:


> I think the normal course of action is to get BE or B Tech done from India and the go for MS from US if the person resides in India.



Yeah that's what most of the people do, but it is generally better to aim at bachelor from abroad.

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seamon said:


> Meanwhile, somewhat lower colleges like UCLA, UIUC etc should admit you if you have a very good SAT score. Nothing is "guaranteed" in the US admission process. *It's like winning a lottery*.



I wouldn't say that. Even if you get into top 30 uni in US, its awesome. The difficulty and "randomness" of getting into a top college after the top 10 decreases drastically. Why? Because people so much focus on the top 5-10 Unis that they forget there are many more which are better than IIT. A good strat would be to aim at somewhat lower unis from the start instead of sitting on MIT.


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## seamon (Jun 8, 2014)

hitesh said:


> I wouldn't say that. Even if you get into top 30 uni in US, its awesome. The difficulty and "randomness" of getting into a top college after the top 10 decreases drastically. Why? Because people so much focus on the top 5-10 Unis that they forget there are many more which are better than IIT. A good strat would be to aim at somewhat lower unis from the start instead of sitting on MIT.



I am going for the safety-match-reach strategy.

Safety-sure shot.1-2
Match-good chance of admission.4-5
Reach-Low chance of admission but possible. 4-5


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 9, 2014)

It is never sure to get admission in any of the universities, but one can always try. what about that i work for IIT and improve my English to a extent then try SAT and give mains? if i get a good SAT score then I can try up to some US univ. ? what about that, but my main emphasis would be IIT as SAT was never a safer option ?


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## hitesh (Jun 9, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> It is never sure to get admission in any of the universities, but one can always try. w*hat about that i work for IIT and improve my English to a extent then try SAT and give mains? *if i get a good SAT score then I can try up to some US univ. ? what about that, but my main emphasis would be IIT as SAT was never a safer option ?



I would advice against it. English is not the only thing you have to work upon, as mentioned in this thread.
With this exponentially increasing competition, it is gonna be very hard to handle both.
Do it if you are very determined and confident, it is gonna be a tough journey ahead


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 9, 2014)

hitesh said:


> I would advice against it. English is not the only thing you have to work upon, as mentioned in this thread.
> With this exponentially increasing competition, it is gonna be very hard to handle both.
> Do it if you are very determined and confident, it is gonna be a tough journey ahead


Ah, so what to choose ?


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## seamon (Jun 10, 2014)

[MENTION=161285]GamerSlayer[/MENTION]
What did you decide??
I am personally aiming for US univs with Singapore univs as a backup. 
Indian univs are not much of a backup considering only IITs and BITS Pilani are the good ones.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 11, 2014)

So, admission in top 30 univ. are better than IIT ? if i give SAT and i get a good score of say 2200 then can i get admission in those 30 univ. ? And again is SAT only for US univ. ? or and other country too ? and as seamon said that if you apply for financial aid you will decrease you chance of getting into and univ., i didn't got that one and which other good univ. come in those top 30 ones ?and are they cheaper than MIT ?


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## seamon (Jun 11, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> So, admission in top 30 univ. are better than IIT ? if i give SAT and i get a good score of say 2200 then can i get admission in those 30 univ. ? And again is SAT only for US univ. ? or and other country too ? and as seamon said that if you apply for financial aid you will decrease you chance of getting into and univ., i didn't got that one and which other good univ. come in those top 30 ones ?and are they cheaper than MIT ?



I think admission in top 50 is better than IIT considering IIT's rank(52).
Colleges after 25+(like UCLA) look primarily at SAT score.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 11, 2014)

seamon said:


> I think admission in top 50 is better than IIT considering IIT's rank(52).
> Colleges after 25+(like UCLA) look primarily at SAT score.


so getting a good SAT score i mentioned can fetch me better life than IIT ? isnt it ?


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## powerhoney (Jun 11, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> so getting a good SAT score i mentioned can fetch me better life than IIT ? isnt it ?



Better life??? Lol... That depends on you... There's only so much that your institute can do... 

It all depends on you... And, rankings don't mean ****... I can assure you that there's no one who will say that the 7 old IITs are not at par with the leading institutes all around the world... 

Whether you look at it from a placement point of view or from a research and development point of view...


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## gopi_vbboy (Jun 11, 2014)

My advice is get into NIT,BITS or top private college of the state   by merit or management.

1.By final year you may have a job.

2.If you are planning for US, try doing lot of research papers , practical project in engineering .

3.Get good recos from Profs.Maintain good percentage.

4.After Btech, fly US for MS. 

Btech + MS is economical than BS from US.

Don't worry about college if you have money for MS. Decent college would do.
But do work hard to get into some good one. All the best.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 11, 2014)

But others commented that its better to aim at Bachelor courses. and [MENTION=139494]powerhoney[/MENTION]  why rankings don't matter ? and I think SAT is a better option but im still confused.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 11, 2014)

First of all, my internet is all screwed up so I couldn't reply. [MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] I have decided to take SAT and to fudge IIT off my life. As you said that you would keep Singapore institutes as a backup, my older brother suggests the same too. It seems the best option to me since I want to get out of India and also is something that is clearly supported by my brother.

 [MENTION=146650]nikhilsharma007nikx[/MENTION] You do have to aim for Bachelor courses.

 [MENTION=139494]powerhoney[/MENTION] you are partially right by saying that rankings don't give a ****. See, if one is aiming for the top colleges, they do focus a lot on Co-Curricular activities which is literally the bane of an Indian Student. It is due to the fact that if he really concentrates on such activities he might screw up his results. But, not everyone gets into the top colleges. And as seamon said, the top 25+ colleges focus on SAT. Don't you see? Ranks do matter!


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## seamon (Jun 11, 2014)

Let's see.
Where IIT shines:
1. Superb academics. It is at par with top 20 colleges in the US.

Where IIT sucks:
1-100:Everything Else.

IIT is same as every other school/college in India. Professors solely focus on academics and nothing else. Compared to US universities, research done in IITs is negligible. Also take into account the govt. hostels(YEWWWW!!!) and not many foreign students take admission there. These factors contribute to a poor ranking. IIT is only good for engineering and therefore has a very poor overall ranking(256 for IIT-D).

My aim is to do a major in EECS(Electrical Engineering and Computer Science[Basically Computer Engineering]) and a minor in Performing Arts(Acting) so staying in India is not an option.

Of course B.Tech in India and then MS from abroad but then getting into MIT for MS becomes quite difficult as compared to US univs.


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## powerhoney (Jun 11, 2014)

seamon said:


> Let's see.
> Where IIT shines:
> 1. Superb academics. It is at par with top 20 colleges in the US.
> 
> ...



This deserves a lot of likes too!!!


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 11, 2014)

So just SAT for other US univ. ? it means If i get a good SAT score I get get a better institute than IIT ? (just with a SAT score ?) and a bit of extra-curriculars ?


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## seamon (Jun 11, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> So just SAT for other US univ. ? it means If i get a good SAT score I get get a better institute than IIT ? (just with a SAT score ?) and a bit of extra-curriculars ?



Say if you fail/had failed once in class 9/10/11/12 then you can forget about colleges in USA.
For 25ish colleges, you require a good SAT score(I recommend 2200-2400)(This is by far the most imp).
A Good SAT 2 score(800 in any 2 subjects) solidify your chances.
ECs like being a prefect in school(Leadership qualities)+Dance/Music/Drama+Sports almost confirms your chances.
Good percentages(nothing solid, 85-95) in class 9+class 10+class 11+class 12(half-yearly) makes you eligible for better colleges and makes 25ish colleges almost sure-shot.
Nothing is 100% certain due to holistic nature of US admission process.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 11, 2014)

But still the things you've mentioned can make it a 90% chance.Moreover, there are a lot of Univ. so I don't think it would be a no-go.


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## seamon (Jun 11, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> But still the things you've mentioned can make it a 90% chance.Moreover, there are a lot of Univ. so I don't think it would be a no-go.



Unless you are a Panauti, you should get selected in 5-6/10.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 12, 2014)

both are difficult in different ways.
for IIT you know, you have to solve really complex math equations and physics problems.

for SAT, mugging up so many words, making up for your non english native up bringing and dont know wht other crap is there in SAT.. will need lots of hardwork here as well. 

critical reasoning also needs practice, intelligence.. its not like its easy. must understand that convoluted english. then make connections, find out assumptions and sh1t.

both place, lots of hardwork. SAT has no crazy math or physics questions.. but must require hard work in english. even if you think your english is great.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 12, 2014)

Have been following thread for long, I suggest either get into IIT or IISc for undergrad & look into foreign Univ for PG


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 12, 2014)

seamon said:


> Unless you are a Panauti, you should get selected in 5-6/10.


Didn't got it.



a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> both are difficult in different ways.
> for IIT you know, you have to solve really complex math equations and physics problems.
> 
> for SAT, mugging up so many words, making up for your non english native up bringing and dont know wht other crap is there in SAT.. will need lots of hardwork here as well.
> ...


I don't really have a great english but I am able to take Critical reasoning though I don't know how but I am able to understand complex english sentences or rather sentences of most poems. 



Chaitanya said:


> Have been following thread for long, I suggest either get into IIT or IISc for undergrad & look into foreign Univ for PG


And why is that ? If im able to get in a better uiv. before hand without much handwork in those freaking maths and physics problems then what ?


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 12, 2014)

See, I am quite sure to take up SAT. No doubt about that. Let me get this straight. I am a little bit fat (I don't look that fat, so don't misjudge) and don't indulge in activities such as dance and drama. So, in how many activities am I to prove myself?


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## Chaitanya (Jun 12, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> And why is that ? If im able to get in a better uiv. before hand *without much handwork* in those freaking maths and physics problems then what ?



My point is hard work is required any way & yeah a good foreign university is better any day.

Also your choice depends if you are going abroad just for better salary or actually contributing something to the science. 
If it's first case (as is most of engg. students including me) then may be studying here can save you a lot of trouble, but for actually gaining something run away from this country


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 12, 2014)

[MENTION=119733]Chaitanya[/MENTION] You are exactly telling me what I am actually going to do. RUN AWAY FROM THIS DAMN COUNTRY THAT OFFERS ****. No offence. I actually want to end up in EA, if you know what I mean!


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## seamon (Jun 12, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> See, I am quite sure to take up SAT. No doubt about that. Let me get this straight. I am a little bit fat (I don't look that fat, so don't misjudge) and don't indulge in activities such as dance and drama. So, in how many activities am I to prove myself?



Play chess. Participate in debating. Fat people can act. Impress your teachers with your hard work.

- - - Updated - - -



nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> Didn't got it.
> 
> I don't really have a great english but I am able to take Critical reasoning though I don't know how but I am able to understand complex english sentences or rather sentences of most poems.
> 
> And why is that ? If im able to get in a better uiv. before hand without much handwork in those freaking maths and physics problems then what ?



Panauti=Very unlucky person.

Don't compare SAT English to CBSE English. 
I heard a student can score 100% with ample spelling mistakes.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 12, 2014)

seamon said:


> Play chess. Participate in debating. Fat people can act. Impress your teachers with your hard work.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


*Well, its just me when I type from keyboard though I don't make much mistakes when doing with a HAND.*


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 13, 2014)

Now, i've started too look at univ. tuition fees and i can't find better one(than IIT) for less than $40k and i was like wtf ! it seems its gonna be dream for me till i graduate and average financial aid is just about $15k . :unhappy: 

Though i have now gained confidence that ill get admission but still can seem to get through the fees and actually i have to come to INDIA once in a year and it's costing about 1lakh ! wtf ! so I have a lot of travel charges where we don't have a car !


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## seamon (Jun 13, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> Now, i've started too look at univ. tuition fees and i can't find better one(than IIT) for less than $40k and i was like wtf ! it seems its gonna be dream for me till i graduate and average financial aid is just about $15k . :unhappy:
> 
> Though i have now gained confidence that ill get admission but still can seem to get through the fees and actually i have to come to INDIA once in a year and it's costing about 1lakh ! wtf ! so I have a lot of travel charges where we don't have a car !



I never said it was cheap.
Look at Harvard. I think it is free.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 13, 2014)

Look, not to boast or something, I have a decent English communication skill. I know that if I get into debates, I can certainly win. I am a guy who begins a debate topic while bathing. But I have stage fear. By stage fear, I mean I can speak in front of a group such as a group discussion (which I take part in and win) but not in debates which is in front of a large crowd.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 13, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> Look, not to boast or something, I have a decent English communication skill. I know that if I get into debates, I can certainly win. I am a guy who begins a debate topic while bathing. But I have stage fear. By stage fear, I mean I can speak in front of a group such as a group discussion (which I take part in and win) *but not in debates which is in front of a large crowd.*


Then you probably should develop this habit as it turns out in the thread that you must be so much confident about yourself that no one is able to change you or things around you.(should may get what I m trying to convey, though I used metaphor  )So, what im trying to say is you have to learn to be able to speak in front of a crowd, i would rather help here cuz im not able to speak in a group but rather a crowd (lol again) 

So, at first look what target audience is. If they are your classmates, colleges or just friends then its nothing to worry about. You can also take part in comparing or hosting our school shows.  

And be experience about what your speaking medium is, with this I meant mic or open. If mic then remember you will have a Feedback of voice so many people get scared usually that they maybe screwing up so keep those things in mind and you are good to go ! 


As for me im gonna stick to India for now as it turns out that it's not a cheap option even with financial aid.

- - - Updated - - -

PART II for speaking in front of a crowd is coming soon !


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## seamon (Jun 13, 2014)

The first time I was in front of a crowd, I was in a debate audition. My legs wouldn't stop trembling. Today, I speak with confidence paying no heed to the audience. I am the best actor in my school and a debater too.
The audience IS going to laugh at your mistakes. Just ask yourself "So what?" I seriously don't give a damn when I speak. I will speak no matter what the audience is doing laughing or crying. Even if they laugh and the very next sentence of yours is full of confidence, the laughing will cease instantaneously. 
During plays, instead of thinking "Oh what a big crowd! What if I make a mistake in my dialogues?", think "Oh I have such a great opportunity to perform in front of such a big audience!" 
Nowadays, the bigger the audience, the more confident I become.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 14, 2014)

This, I have to try. Until then, I will stick to hosting and group discussions. Btw, is it ok to join an IIT coaching institute for my preparation?! (SAT of course)


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## seamon (Jun 14, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> This, I have to try. Until then, I will stick to hosting and group discussions. Btw, is it ok to join an IIT coaching institute for my preparation?! (SAT of course)



IIT Coaching Institute for SAT preparation? 
That sounds pretty messed up.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 15, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> This, I have to try. Until then, I will stick to hosting and group discussions. *Btw, is it ok to join an IIT coaching institute for my preparation?! (SAT of course)*


LOL ?


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 15, 2014)

What I mean is that I haven't seen any Coaching institute just for SAT preparation. So, then is it just self-study? And in any case, coaching for IIT may be of higher level as compared to SAT. Won't that help?


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## seamon (Jun 15, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> What I mean is that I haven't seen any Coaching institute just for SAT preparation. So, then is it just self-study? And in any case, coaching for IIT may be of higher level as compared to SAT. Won't that help?



SAT=English. I have never seen a coaching institute teaching English.

- - - Updated - - -

Alright, you seriously need to look at some SAT prep books before asking pointless questions.


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## AcceleratorX (Jun 17, 2014)

I will offer you my own perspective on this matter and I hope it helps you decide what is best for you.

I was personally, not very good in school. I was average - good in some subjects, weak in others. Generally I'd score in 70s-80s range (pathetic by today's standards but average then). I did, however, hold an interest in engineering and technology. I'd tinker around with practical apparatus in the chemistry lab every day. I'd try to understand reaction mechanisms and colouration caused by various reagents. I'd try to see the kinetics, etc. I used to debug code in my spare time - I was a computer whiz once, deeply interested in software as well as hardware. I used to top the computer science subjects at school, which sadly had only a grade and were never part of the total marks in the report card.

When it came down to it, all of my interests were discouraged by immediate society in favour of studying harder to get more marks in 10th, 12th and then the entrances. But I never prepared seriously, thinking that I must clear an exam of my own volition and not by being "coached" for it.

I suffered very badly for it. I was interested in only two branches: Computer Science/Engineering and Chemical Engineering due to my childhood tinkering in both those fields. Due to my entrance marks, I forgot about IIT, NIT and BITS or even my two favourite branches: They were all out of reach. I could not even get BSc in Computer Science with my 12th score. I ended up studying a branch that I was only partially keen on in a 3rd tier college in the city. Nearly all my dreams, all my interest was killed in that one year of 12th. I was not keen on dropping, because I had never attended coaching in my life and I was not prepared to start now. I took the ball that was given to me (and later, I would find out that most people, including the toppers, also took the best available option rather than what they really desired).

The kicker was that my interest was never related to a desire for a job. I wished to study because I had an interest. But, with the Indian education system, that does not take into account any practical skills or even a statement of purpose, I had been ditched. Over the years, I accepted the situation. The college taught as well as it could with its extremely limited resources. But basically I did self study. I passed, somehow with decent marks. In terms of practice I was/am decent with my branch of specialization today. Over time, I did manage to try and link myself with other branches by means of magazines and self study of textbooks from other branches. It took a lot of time, and money.

But the aspirations for getting a job of my fellow friend engineers took away my desire and interest to study what I really wanted and made my life ten times more difficult for it. Can I blame them? No. But even for postgraduation, a similar situation prevails. You have an easier option in the US, where you can pick and choose majors (or minor if you could not get your desired major) and can always choose electives to suit your own interests. This is just not there in India.

The earlier posters are right: Indian education system is not designed for people who wish to study and/or research. It is intended, meant and deliberately favours those who have a "I need to get job" mentality. If you fall into this crowd, I suggest you stick to India. If not, go the USA way. Don't get me wrong, Indian education system is not bad at all, it does have a decent quality to it, but you need to understand who it is meant for. You can be like me and still be successful, it just takes much more effort in India than in the USA.

I hope this gives you a better perspective on the matters. The USA probably has it's own cons as well. Nothing is inherently good or bad as such, it just depends on what suits you and what doesn't. No one can objectively judge intelligence by the means of any one test, that is why the USA has a holistic approach to admissions.


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## powerhoney (Jun 17, 2014)

AcceleratorX said:


> I will offer you my own perspective on this matter and I hope it helps you decide what is best for you.
> 
> I was personally, not very good in school. I was average - good in some subjects, weak in others. Generally I'd score in 70s-80s range (pathetic by today's standards but average then). I did, however, hold an interest in engineering and technology. I'd tinker around with practical apparatus in the chemistry lab every day. I'd try to understand reaction mechanisms and colouration caused by various reagents. I'd try to see the kinetics, etc. I used to debug code in my spare time - I was a computer whiz once, deeply interested in software as well as hardware. I used to top the computer science subjects at school, which sadly had only a grade and were never part of the total marks in the report card.
> 
> ...


Very well said!!!


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 17, 2014)

seamon said:


> SAT=English. I have never seen a coaching institute teaching English.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Alright, you seriously need to look at some SAT prep books before asking pointless questions.


Now, I don't think he is going in the right path even after all those posts !


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## AcceleratorX (Jun 17, 2014)

powerhoney said:
			
		

> Very well said!!!



Thank you. I wanted to add something to that post but cut it short due to work constraints. I am not saying my life is screwed or something, I'm fine and happy with it - I did manage to get close to what I originally wanted to do. What I wanted to say is that it took a lot more effort than it would have had I just gone as per my original desire/wish (for e.g. studying say, something like process control instrumentation or chemical kinetics by yourself is much, much tougher than if you studied it as part of your B.Tech). In the USA, things are not so rigid. You *can* have a minor in chemistry and a major in engineering (for example) in the same 4 year course, no one stops you but you yourself.  

This is all the thoughts I can offer on this topic. OP should think about what he really wants to do and decide based on my previous post and other posters' opinions given here.


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## GamerSlayer (Jun 18, 2014)

I loved your post AcceleratorX. USA is and always will be my choice. And btw, I felt, you really wanted to say in your first post in this thread that Indian Education System sucks. Again, don't get ME wrong, this is my opinion. I understood one thing from your post though, 'Whatever you do, wherever you go, hardwork pays it all.'

 [MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] I will look for the books you suggested and self-study.

 [MENTION=146650]nikhilsharma007nikx[/MENTION] You have good judgement but it always turns out to be wrong. No offence.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 18, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> I loved your post AcceleratorX. USA is and always will be my choice. And btw, I felt, you really wanted to say in your first post in this thread that Indian Education System sucks. Again, don't get ME wrong, this is my opinion. I understood one thing from your post though, 'Whatever you do, wherever you go, hardwork pays it all.'
> 
> [MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] I will look for the books you suggested and self-study.
> 
> [MENTION=146650]nikhilsharma007nikx[/MENTION]* You have good judgement but it always turns out to be wrong. No offence.*


LOL?why is that ?


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## KlukiRt (Jun 24, 2014)

GamerSlayer said:


> I loved your post AcceleratorX. USA is and always will be my choice. And btw, I felt, you really wanted to say in your first post in this thread that Indian Education System sucks. Again, don't get ME wrong, this is my opinion. I understood one thing from your post though, 'Whatever you do, wherever you go, hardwork pays it all.'
> 
> [MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] I will look for the books you suggested and self-study.
> 
> [MENTION=146650]nikhilsharma007nikx[/MENTION] You have good judgement but it always turns out to be wrong. No offence.



Self-education will always lose to the system, but as an alternative to completely get away!


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## AcceleratorX (Jun 26, 2014)

KlukiRt said:
			
		

> Self-education will always lose to the system, but as an alternative to completely get away!



The only ones who win in the present system are the coaching classes who advertise themselves as the "masters of science" with first page ads on major newspapers (when, in reality, they hire passouts of IITs and other universities to teach before they have had significant research experience). Exam oriented learning has already eroded the knowledge base, driven away talented people from the nation and suppressed the hard working student class who cannot afford or don't want to go for tuitions. In the coming years the country will see full, final and permanent consequences of this system that intentionally preyed on parents' expectations and students' gullibility in education. This phenomenon has now also spread to the GATE exam with coaching centres spreading like fungi, and PSUs and universities taking the easy way out by selecting on the basis of GATE rank only (A guy I know with rank 2004 did not get any good institute or PSU in his branch - given the 1.36 lakh aspirants, that was a 99th percentile candidate not getting even an interview!).

We have an entire generation of students who have been coached from their childhood to adulthood to succeed in science papers by educators who only teach how to clear a paper (and not the nuances of the subject). How will they handle it if the training wheels are taken out? It's not to say the Indian education system outright sucks but it is targeted towards a student who frankly has no idea what he is doing or wants to do.

We can complain all we want about brain drain but in the end, our system has actively pushed away anyone with even a sliver of focus, clarity and imagination in his head.


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## The Conqueror (Jun 26, 2014)

AcceleratorX said:


> I will offer you my own perspective on this matter and I hope it helps you decide what is best for you.
> 
> I was personally, not very good in school. I was average - good in some subjects, weak in others. Generally I'd score in 70s-80s range (pathetic by today's standards but average then). I did, however, hold an interest in engineering and technology. I'd tinker around with practical apparatus in the chemistry lab every day. I'd try to understand reaction mechanisms and colouration caused by various reagents. I'd try to see the kinetics, etc. I used to debug code in my spare time - I was a computer whiz once, deeply interested in software as well as hardware. I used to top the computer science subjects at school, which sadly had only a grade and were never part of the total marks in the report card.
> 
> ...


Well, I just completed my second year, and your story seems a lot like mine.

In my case I had a *strong* inclination for coding and in general working with computers. In school, no matter how hard I tried, I always scored in 70s-80s. I too used to *top* computer science subjects and even won several gold medals. But alas, when I was in 11th, I was trapped in the 'rat race' and couldn't get out. I did not join any coaching and because of my persistent ego (Why should they judge my aptitude for computer science on the basis of _Chemistry_ score) ensured that I failed miserably at the primer engineering entrances. I never wanted to compromise my interest for the sake of brand name college. 

So, I took admission in a tier-3 engineering college which is at a walking distance from my home. Here you are discouraged to learn, and explore. The focus is just on scoring X/100 marks in university exams. The so-called toppers cannot even turn on the system. They don't know about Open Source development. They don't know about Internships. They don't know about anything else that is not present outside their local 'guide-book'. Forget coding. The so-called 9.8 pointers don't even know what is debugging. TurboC++ FTW! 

As AcceleratorX rightly said, it is _possible_ to even succeed from this environment, but it is MUCH, MUCH harder than what the guys in US go through.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 26, 2014)

acceleratorx said:


> the only ones who win in the present system are the coaching classes who advertise themselves as the "masters of science" with first page ads on major newspapers (when, in reality, they hire passouts of iits and other universities to teach before they have had significant research experience). Exam oriented learning has already eroded the knowledge base, driven away talented people from the nation and suppressed the hard working student class who cannot afford or don't want to go for tuitions. In the coming years the country will see full, final and permanent consequences of this system that intentionally preyed on parents' expectations and students' gullibility in education. This phenomenon has now also spread to the gate exam with coaching centres spreading like fungi, and psus and universities taking the easy way out by selecting on the basis of gate rank only (a guy i know with rank 2004 did not get any good institute or psu in his branch - given the 1.36 lakh aspirants, that was a 99th percentile candidate not getting even an interview!).
> 
> We have an entire generation of students who have been coached from their childhood to adulthood to succeed in science papers by educators who only teach how to clear a paper (and not the nuances of the subject). How will they handle it if the training wheels are taken out? It's not to say the indian education system outright sucks but it is targeted towards a student who frankly has no idea what he is doing or wants to do.
> 
> We can complain all we want about brain drain but in the end, our system has actively pushed away anyone with even a sliver of focus, clarity and imagination in his head.





the conqueror said:


> well, i just completed my second year, and your story seems a lot like mine.
> 
> In my case i had a *strong* inclination for coding and in general working with computers. In school, no matter how hard i tried, i always scored in 70s-80s. I too used to *top* computer science subjects and even won several gold medals. But alas, when i was in 11th, i was trapped in the 'rat race' and couldn't get out. I did not join any coaching and because of my persistent ego (why should they judge my aptitude for computer science on the basis of _chemistry_ score) ensured that i failed miserably at the primer engineering entrances. I never wanted to compromise my interest for the sake of brand name college.
> 
> ...


**** india ! **** everyone !


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## seamon (Jul 2, 2014)

SAT aspirants, I hope you are practising Critical Reading. That section is immensely difficult.


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

I think I should share my experience. 
(I passed 12th this year and gave SAT + Subject Test + IELTS this year) 

Like all of you I was totally disgusted with the marks based education system of India.  I had stopped studying seriously in 12th std. In fact I was desperate to escape the IIT mania. I come from a well off family but affording a US undergrad was beyond us (it costs about 60,000$ per year!). It was obvious that I had to apply only to those universities who provide need based financial aid to students. 

Now the thing is that there are very few such universities in the US. Most US colleges see international students as a source of income. Only a handful of US schools give need based financial assistance to International students. Some of them are- MIT, Ivy Leagues, Stanford etc. Other universities give some scholarships but they don't guarantee to cover the full expense, plus they don't provide a very rigorous education anyway.

Do you see where this going? Getting admission into these colleges is freaking hard as an international student. 

Since I had good grades in 9th and 10th and 90% in 11th, I decided to apply. I gave all the tests and scored well, 2200/2400 in SAT and 800/800 in both Math2 and Physics Subject Tests. I took a lot of time to write my essays properly and got good recommendations from my teachers. I also got the required score in IELTS and then made a list of US universities and then applied to them. I thought that I had a good chance of getting through.   

Doing all the above cost about 50,000 rupees and took up a lot of my time. Very soon I realized that I was in deep trouble. Boards were just a few months away and hadn't started preparing. Somehow I prepared enough to get 90% in them (I could easily get 95% if I hadn't wasted my time). 

While giving boards my admission decisions started coming. I got rejected from five universities and got wait-listed by two. My only consolation was getting wait-listed by my dream university. (One month later I got rejected by it as well, although they called me an excellent scholar in the e-mail).

After this I had two options-

i)Sit down and cry
ii)Prepare for jee with whatever time I had

Thankfully I chose the second option. I studied sincerely and gave jee Main and Advanced. The funny thing is that I scored decently in both of them. I even got a rank in jee advanced but it was useless for a general category student. My mains rank was ruined by the idiotic jee mains normalisation formula ("only" 90% in boards) . I was screwed and was seriously considering dropping an year. Thankfully though, I managed to clear BITSAT.

Well what is the lesson to learn from this?

Applying abroad may not be such a good idea if you are over reliant on financial aid. The US application process is both expensive and time consuming. Even after a lot of investment there is no guarantee of any kind. You can get rejected for any random reason and not even know about it.  Due to increasing awareness there are hundreds of Indian applicants for every university. The truth is that only 10-20 students out of them get selected.

My advice is to apply abroad only if 

i)Your parents are rich and willing to spend a lot for your education. 
OR
ii)You are a rare kind of genius who has international Olympiad medal or similar recognition.
ii)Else you have a very good hardworking attitude and can somehow not get distracted from your studies while applying abroad. (Do such people even exist!?)

Yes, the Indian education system sucks, but running away from it is not so easy. Think about it this way- When you hate something what will make you happier? Running from it.....or fighting and ultimately beating it?


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## seamon (Aug 3, 2014)

kaelthas said:


> I think I should share my experience.
> (I passed 12th this year and gave SAT + Subject Test + IELTS this year)
> 
> Like all of you I was totally disgusted with the marks based education system of India.  I had stopped studying seriously in 12th std. In fact I was desperate to escape the IIT mania. I come from a well off family but affording a US undergrad was beyond us (it costs about 60,000$ per year!). It was obvious that I had to apply only to those universities who provide need based financial aid to students.
> ...



Mind if I ask some questions?
1.What ECs did you have?
2.What univs did you apply to?
3.Which was your dream univ?


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

seamon said:


> Mind if I ask some questions?
> 1.What ECs did you have?
> 2.What univs did you apply to?
> 3.Which was your dream univ?



1)I am a national level chess player, so ECs like fourth rank in CBSE west zone chess, chess district champion etc. Other academic ECs like good ranks in mathematical Olympiads.
2)Mostly Ivies with others like WashU in St.L, U of C thrown in. All were top 50 schools that give full aid to international students. Didn't apply to "superselective" schools like MIT, Caltech etc.
3)University of Chicago for its high academic rigour.

Other thing I want to add is that I don't regret applying abroad. Writing those essays and giving some interviews led to a lot of introspection for me. At the same time I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I tried.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Aug 3, 2014)

kaelthas said:


> I think I should share my experience.
> (I passed 12th this year and gave SAT + Subject Test + IELTS this year)
> 
> Like all of you I was totally disgusted with the marks based education system of India.  I had stopped studying seriously in 12th std. In fact I was desperate to escape the IIT mania. I come from a well off family but affording a US undergrad was beyond us (it costs about 60,000$ per year!). It was obvious that I had to apply only to those universities who provide need based financial aid to students.
> ...


Im pretty shocked ! 
You got 2200 in SAT and also crossed IIT with such little time for preparing! wow ! HATS OFF to you buddy! 
I have also decided to leave the SAT option and going with IIT. so i just want to ask a few questions about it.
!. did you go to any coaching center for preparation for JEE ?
2. How did you prepared yourself in such a short time period ?
3. Whats that 90% percent thing you were talking about that crapped your JEE mains result ?


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> Im pretty shocked !
> You got 2200 in SAT and also crossed IIT with such little time for preparing! wow ! HATS OFF to you buddy!
> I have also decided to leave the SAT option and going with IIT. so i just want to ask a few questions about it.
> !. did you go to any coaching center for preparation for JEE ?
> ...



Thanks, I did cross IIT but a general category student cant get much with the rank I got. 

1)I joined a coaching centre and was somewhat sincere in 11th. However I stopped attending classes regularly somewhere in 12th. 

2)After boards I joined a "crash course" with another coaching. It was good but I was too weak in chemistry. In two months i could only sharpen my physical chem. Most benefit was in physics, I solved many good physics problems during this time. 

3)This is the thing which everyone should know. Even if you score well in jee mains, your rank will be decided mostly by your board marks. If you get below 92% in boards chances of getting an NIT will become very less. 

To use a gaming analogy, if Jee Main signifies a CPU then your board percentage will be the GPU. After getting a decent CPU you should spend most money on GPU. It is easy to bottle-neck your GPU but not your CPU. In other words aim for 95% in boards. Its not even that difficult since questions are pretty predictable, only hard work is required.


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## seamon (Aug 3, 2014)

[MENTION=144636]kaelthas[/MENTION]

I can see why you didn't get selected.
2200 is an extremely low score for an international applicant for Ivies and UChicago.

Did you apply to any safeties? Like Rice university, UMass Amherst or even Purdue. These colleges are very good for engineering.

You come in the High Reach category in all of the universities you listed. It should have been obvious that you would be rejected.

Asking for financial aid must have been the final blow to your application as most of these schools are need-aware.

You ECs don't have width. Did you hold any positions of leadership in school?

Harvard regularly rejects national applicants with 2400 SAT score who don't ask for aid.


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

It always seems obvious in hindsight doesn't it? 

Among the "safeties" that you listed two don't give need based fin aid and another is need aware. In fact the universities I applied to can be called reaches for even 2300. I have seen candidates with my SAT score getting selected while 2300 getting rejected, so don't mislead others to think that getting 2300 instead of 2200 solves everything.

You prove my point exactly. There is no limit to how perfect an application can become, but Indian students are already in a crunch for their competitive exams etc. I guess rich students from big schools can get ECs with "depth" very easily but such students already have their life carved out by their parents.


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## seamon (Aug 3, 2014)

kaelthas said:


> It always seems obvious in hindsight doesn't it?
> 
> Among the "safeties" that you listed two don't give need based fin aid and another is need aware. In fact the universities I applied to can be called reaches for even 2300. I have seen candidates with my SAT score getting selected while 2300 getting rejected, so don't mislead others to think that getting 2300 instead of 2200 solves everything.
> 
> You prove my point exactly. There is no limit to how perfect an application can become, but Indian students are already in a crunch for their competitive exams etc. I guess rich students from big schools can get ECs with "depth" very easily but such students already have their life carved out by their parents.



You are correct, US admission process is extremely unpredictable and anything can happen to anyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Only 6 colleges in USA are need-blind to International applicants:

1) Amherst College
2) Dartmouth College
3) Harvard University
4) Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
5) Princeton University
6) Yale University

Merit-based scholarships is the only option for most good colleges.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Aug 3, 2014)

kaelthas said:


> Thanks, I did cross IIT but a general category student cant get much with the rank I got.
> 
> 1)I joined a coaching centre and was somewhat sincere in 11th. However I stopped attending classes regularly somewhere in 12th.
> 
> ...


A few more questions lol ....im a noob in such cases...
1. What is a "crash" course and which coaching did you take up for it ? and which coaching did you joined in 11th ?
2. Was that coaching any help full ? 
3. Can you suggest me good preparation books for JEE both mains and advanced ?
4. How was the BITSAT ? easier than JEE ? how should I prepare for that ? are BITs in completion with the IIT's ?
5. Are you happy with the decision of going to BITs ?


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> A few more questions lol ....im a noob in such cases...
> 1. What is a "crash" course and which coaching did you take up for it ? and which coaching did you joined in 11th ?
> 2. Was that coaching any help full ?
> 3. Can you suggest me good preparation books for JEE both mains and advanced ?
> ...



Dude you are asking questions as if I am topper or something 

1)A crash course is a fast revision course. I joined a reputed local coaching for it. In 11th I just took satellite coaching from a reputed institute.
2)It was but in hindsight should have studied from physical teachers. Satellite coaching didn't suit me I started wasting my time.
3)Join some coaching, they will give you the books.
4)BITSAT is definitely easier than JEE but is based on the same concepts. If you prepare for JEE you are preparing for BITSAT also. With that said solving many papers and improving speed is the key to BITSAT.
5)Its my best option for sure.


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## seamon (Aug 3, 2014)

[MENTION=144636]kaelthas[/MENTION] which branch btw?


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## kaelthas (Aug 3, 2014)

[MENTION=248727]seamon[/MENTION] Lets keep it anonymous


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## seamon (Sep 9, 2014)

Just got 114 in TOEFL.


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## nikhilsharma007nikx (Oct 6, 2014)

How much is the Max marks ?


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## seamon (Oct 6, 2014)

nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> How much is the Max marks ?



120....


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## AbhMkh (Oct 7, 2014)

seamon said:


> 120....



According to research, not even the so called "native english speakers" score full marks in TOEFL/IELTS.

So much for Test of "English as a foreign language", lol


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## seamon (Oct 8, 2014)

AbhMkh said:


> According to research, not even the so called "native english speakers" score full marks in TOEFL/IELTS.
> 
> So much for Test of "English as a foreign language", lol



LoL. TOEFL was very easy. I got distracted in the Listening section due to reasons and I spoke too long is the speaking section so as to go over the time limit.
Consequently, I scored 26/30 in Listening and 28/30 in speaking. My Reading and Writing sections were perfect.

TOEFL is too damn easy. SAT, on the other hand, is a nightmare.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I did my writing section 10 mins before the time limit and could afford to take a short break. Even after the break I had time to revise lol.


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## AbhMkh (Oct 8, 2014)

seamon said:


> Just got 114 in TOEFL.



TOEFL is really easy, a bare minimum standard of english for anyone if I may say so.

It was all the rage few years ago, I had taken a few demo tests and was scoring in the range of 105-110 with zero preparation !

The amount of USAphiles in this thread is too DAMN HIGH !

I speak with  many Americans on a day to day basis, most of them IT/System Admins.They don't seem to be very bright.Not really sure what the average IQ level of a system/IT admin is but if the college education system in USA is as good as it is being described by a certain number of people in this thread I should be speaking to people who should know their ****.The reality, however is to the contrary !

I believe, your intelligence is the only limitation.


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## seamon (Oct 8, 2014)

AbhMkh said:


> TOEFL is really easy, a bare minimum standard of english for anyone if I may say so.
> 
> It was all the rage few years ago, I had taken a few demo tests and was scoring in the range of 105-110 with zero preparation !
> 
> The amount of USAphiles in this thread is too DAMN HIGH !



Exactly!
IDK why one of the B.Tech dude I met couldn't complete the Reading Section.


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## Deleted member 345628 (Dec 29, 2021)

I have enrolled in Irvine . I failed my SAT . Not recommended . It is a money laundering institute .


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## SaiyanGoku (Dec 29, 2021)

pranayesse said:


> I have enrolled in Irvine . I failed my SAT . Not recommended . It is a money laundering institute .


Remove the quote from that spammer in your reply.


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## Deleted member 345628 (Dec 29, 2021)

Hahaha yes sir


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## Nerevarine (Mar 18, 2022)

euremagistar said:


> Weird decision.


You, commenting on a dead thread ?


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## K_akash_i (Mar 18, 2022)

must be bored


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## Desmond (Mar 18, 2022)

Actually a spammer. Banned them just now.


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