# AtiHD4850 vs Nvidia 9800GTX+



## mukherjee (Aug 10, 2008)

Here,lets conduct a poll to see how many of us want which one....theres been a lot of confusion lately as to buy which one...


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## dOm1naTOr (Aug 10, 2008)

9800GTX+ is near twice as expensive than a 4850, in India.
But 9800GTX+ leads only by less than 5% better performance.
Considering the extra benefits like DX 10.1, HDMI, single slot, lower power consumption, and extreme vfm of 4850, 9800GTX+ simply doesn't stand a chance.


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## mukherjee (Aug 10, 2008)

dOm1naTOr said:


> 9800GTX+ is near twice as expensive than a 4850, in India.
> But 9800GTX+ leads only by less than 5% better performance.
> Considering the extra benefits like DX 10.1, HDMI, single slot, lower power consumption, and extreme vfm of 4850, 9800GTX+ simply doesn't stand a chance.



well....u might be a little mistaken abt the price! 
see this: *priceguru.in/archives/news/new-hardware/2115
and this: *www.lynx-india.com/index.php?productID=2244

and this is abt the fabled ati close to metal! 
*www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-stream-processor-GPGPU,6072.html

and heres about physx: *www.engadget.com/2008/08/07/nvidia-uncorking-physx-support-for-geforce-cards-on-august-12th/

n deres already a physx beta driver doing the rounds *www.techpowerup.com/67632/NVIDIA_PhysX_Beta_Driver_for_GT200_G92_G96_Cards_Leaked.html even my 8600gt has physx enabled in Win XP!

i am not an nvidia fanboy. see my posts here *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5193&page=189

i really need a concrete buying decision between the two within the next 2 wks...and hence i hv put up this poll.....


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## nish_higher (Aug 10, 2008)

the cards are similar and that  5 percent difference can only be practically seen in Crysis due to low frame rates for both.

considering the performance of nforce boards,its better to invest in intel based motherboards and ATi cards coz intel chipsets rock for now.u know what i mean


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## spikygv (Aug 11, 2008)

if u wanna go X-fire then , hd 4850. . else 9800GTX+ if its for less than 13k .


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## Psychosocial (Aug 11, 2008)

I voted on the basis of performance. 9800GTX+ has slight edge over ATi but ATi is more VFM. It's upto you to choose between performance (only five percent more if you buy 9800GTX+) or VFM. I would buy the 9800GTX+ because that 5% gap can be widened by new games. I am an NVIDIA fanboi too but that dosen't justify why I chose it.


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## ancientrites (Aug 12, 2008)

@threadstarter
  if i had 2 buy between these two cards i would go with 9800gtx+ (personally i prefer gtx 280 which i will be buying soon once the price comes down from leadtek)
  i have been buying nvidia cards since decades starting with geforce 5 series.I dont care even if amdati is better in terms of vfm or performance.Its not that i dont like ati but its for ages that i have been attached with nvidia brand.
  After all nvidia is an elite company so does are its customers like me.just kidding.......


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## gary4gar (Aug 12, 2008)

ATI 4850 anyday


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## imgame2 (Aug 13, 2008)

my point why i would like to go for is this review ...(i know every other website has a different review and opinion but overclockersclub has a decent reputation .)

many people have said that 4850 is not a good overclocker this review proves it wrong 

*www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/msi_r4850/

though this review is for msi ...there is palit 4850 sonic(pre-oced version of hd4850) available in market for 11k,which will give a tough time to nvidia gtx 280 card ....leave about 9800gtx+. 

if i get performance of that quality of just 11k ....what else do i want ?


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## Psychosocial (Aug 13, 2008)

imgame2 said:


> my point why i would like to go for is this review ...(i know every other website has a different review and opinion but overclockersclub has a decent reputation .)
> 
> many people have said that 4850 is not a good overclocker this review proves it wrong
> 
> ...



Lol at the point of 4850 giving tough time to GTX280. Even the 4870 pees against the GTX280  Leave alone 4850. I don't intend to start any war, just a notifier


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## desiibond (Aug 13, 2008)

+1 for ATI.


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## imgame2 (Aug 14, 2008)

KPower Mania said:


> Lol at the point of 4850 giving tough time to GTX280. Even the 4870 pees against the GTX280  Leave alone 4850. I don't intend to start any war, just a notifier



well the review says it all itself ...i never said it beats gtx280 ..all i said is its not far behind....when a 11k card catches up(even if its in few games) to 30k card....i wouldn't say 4850 is peeing against gtx280 ....

it was never intended to beat or even compete with gtx280 it was to compete with 8800 gtx /9800 series. but if a card is performing good ...then its good for consumers...and i know it hurts for fanboys.

be my guest and buy gtx280 @30k (or even @25k) to satisfy ego and fanboyism.i m pretty much satisfied with a oced version of 4850..which gives me smooth gameplay,with all high settings which is pretty enough for me.

no one is going to give me a prize if i ran my crysis @60fps with all high settings spending 25k...except it will satisfy my ego amoung few people.

if u want to see what a peeing is ...look at this 

*techgage.com/article/palit_radeon_hd_4870_x2_1gb_-_amd_reclaims_gpu_supremacy/1


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## ssk_the_gr8 (Aug 15, 2008)

it has to be ati hd4850


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## IronManForever (Aug 15, 2008)

ATi HD 4850. Id better have the hype on my side!! 

EDIT: BTW Ati should have added physyx support for their cards too. it maynot be that difficult for them, they are the manufacturers and have the driver code, and the cards are pretty powerful!!


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## Rishu (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi... i hav 2 assemble a pc.. under 30k... excluding monitor...
wat would be a gud option amd or intel..
i had been lokin for intel quad n amd quads but still a lot confused????


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## ssk_the_gr8 (Aug 15, 2008)

^^
post ur queries in the hardware section...


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## Rishu (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi... i hav 2 assemble a pc.. under 30k... excluding monitor...
wat would be a gud option amd or intel..
i had been lokin for intel quad n amd quads but still a lot confused????


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## imgame2 (Aug 16, 2008)

IronManForever said:


> ATi HD 4850. Id better have the hype on my side!!
> 
> EDIT: BTW Ati should have added physyx support for their cards too. it maynot be that difficult for them, they are the manufacturers and have the driver code, and the cards are pretty powerful!!



no support for PhysX for Amd cards possible from now on i guess,with the cut throat competition amd has with nvidia PhysX will never be available on ATI.

PhysX is now owned by nVidia, in february 2008 nVidia bought out ageia(the company behind PhysX) and its PhysX engine to incorporate it into CUDA framework.Incidentally ageia's direct competitor Hovoc was acquired by intel and it dropped the project of developing a specialized kit called havoc FX.so now PhysX is the only physics hardware accelerator available.

i guess intel will incorporate it into much hyped larrabee!!

but ATI does have GPGPU though its not as well developed as CUDA,but according to recent news ATI's physics engine support will come from havoc ! yes same havoc which intel acquired and now bringing in its own GPU to compete with ATI and nVidia both....
i don't know how ATI pulled it though !!!


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## desiibond (Aug 16, 2008)

^^ That's called making business.


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## tkin (Aug 17, 2008)

I'd go for the 9800GTX+(XFX).As KPower Mania mentioned the 5% performance gap can be widened by many upcoming games.Till date I'v seen most games endorse nVidia(You can see the "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" Logo in many games).

And to Ironmanforever nVidia now owns PhysX as they took over AGEIA so how can you say that ATI could implement PhysX in their cards? They can however go with HAVOC which is similiar to PhysX(I think) but they are not interested in it at this moment.


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## mukherjee (Aug 17, 2008)

tkin said:


> I'd go for the 9800GTX+(XFX).As KPower Mania mentioned the 5% performance gap can be widened by many upcoming games.Till date I'v seen most games endorse nVidia(You can see the "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" Logo in many games).
> 
> And to Ironmanforever nVidia now owns PhysX as they took over AGEIA so how can you say that ATI could implement PhysX in their cards? They can however go with HAVOC which is similiar to PhysX(I think) but they are not interested in it at this moment.



well....who sed that ati cards cant run the "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" games better than nvidia itself?
how many "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" games hv u seen launched in the last year or so?

just becoz they are d green giants..dozent mean d own d field....they r being beaten black n blue by the r700...and the hd4800 series


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## tkin (Aug 17, 2008)

mukherjee said:


> well....who sed that ati cards cant run the "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" games better than nvidia itself?
> how many "nVidia-Way its meant to be played" games hv u seen launched in the last year or so?
> 
> just becoz they are d green giants..dozent mean d own d field....they r being beaten black n blue by the r700...and the hd4800 series


Actually what I meant to say is if some upcoming game developers utilize PhysX,CUDA and unfairly support nVidia cards by decreasing performance on ATI cards what will happen then?


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## mukherjee (Aug 17, 2008)

tkin said:


> Actually what I meant to say is if some upcoming game developers utilize PhysX,CUDA and unfairly support nVidia cards by decreasing performance on ATI cards what will happen then?



well, we are going with directx 10.1 now(with ati, nvidia still stuck at 10.0 lollz)...still how many games have we seen on the dx10 platform,leave alone dx10.1? dx9c is still going ga-ga!!

similarly,dont expect dat physx and cuda will jus have applications falling outta the air! will take a yr or more to get them to work....by dat time....amd/ati will have something for the 4800 series on the physics and parallel computing front!


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## tkin (Aug 17, 2008)

mukherjee said:


> well, we are going with directx 10.1 now(with ati, nvidia still stuck at 10.0 lollz)...still how many games have we seen on the dx10 platform,leave alone dx10.1? dx9c is still going ga-ga!!
> 
> similarly,dont expect dat physx and cuda will jus have applications falling outta the air! will take a yr or more to get them to work....by dat time....amd/ati will have something for the 4800 series on the physics and parallel computing front!


Chill yaar, looks like you're taking this too seriously.Talking about stuff thats not even properly implied yet(both CUDA-PhysX and ATI parallel physics engine-HAVOC).Things are changing rapidly now.Last year nVidia took the crown, this year ATI and maybe next year Intel will(already has 40% of market share).
The entire reason of this post is to know whether 9800GTX+ will be available in kolkata by October.


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## mukherjee (Aug 17, 2008)

tkin said:


> Chill yaar, looks like you're taking this too seriously.Talking about stuff thats not even properly implied yet(both CUDA-PhysX and ATI parallel physics engine-HAVOC).Things are changing rapidly now.Last year nVidia took the crown, this year ATI and maybe next year Intel will(already has 40% of market share).
> The entire reason of this post is to know whether 9800GTX+ will be available in kolkata by October.



nehi yaar.....kolkata is waaaaay behind mumbai and delhi 

and btw, wat i m speaking above is wat i came to know frm different tech sites....!!!


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## tkin (Aug 17, 2008)

mukherjee said:


> nehi yaar.....kolkata is waaaaay behind mumbai and delhi
> 
> and btw, wat i m speaking above is wat i came to know frm different tech sites....!!!


Yeah I know that.But the 8800GT was available here not long after it was launched abroad(my friend got it from Supreme Technologies)


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## mukherjee (Aug 17, 2008)

tkin said:


> Yeah I know that.But the 8800GT was available here not long after it was launched abroad(my friend got it from Supreme Technologies)



i never buy from supreme....they were gud once.....not now....
i enquired about the 4800 series a week before...then havent even heard of it!!! :shocked:


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## NIGHTMARE (Aug 17, 2008)

ATI 4850 value for money


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## tkin (Aug 17, 2008)

mukherjee said:


> i never buy from supreme....they were gud once.....not now....
> i enquired about the 4800 series a week before...then havent even heard of it!!! :shocked:


Well, what according to your opinion is the best Hardware shop in Kolkata then?(not just availability but price and customer satisfaction)


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## mukherjee (Aug 20, 2008)

tkin said:


> Well, what according to your opinion is the best Hardware shop in Kolkata then?(not just availability but price and customer satisfaction)



i alredy pm d u!


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## desiibond (Aug 21, 2008)

tkin said:


> Actually what I meant to say is if some upcoming game developers utilize PhysX,CUDA and unfairly support nVidia cards by decreasing performance on ATI cards what will happen then?


 
then nvidia and those developers will be facing antitrust lawsuites.

game developers try to use the most of the features that a h/w manufacturer provides.


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## IronManForever (Aug 21, 2008)

imgame2 said:
			
		

> my point why i would like to go for is this review ...(i know every other website has a different review and opinion but overclockersclub has a decent reputation .)
> 
> many people have said that 4850 is not a good overclocker this review proves it wrong
> 
> ...



Sorry; my bad. I didnt mean PhysX in its exact sense. I meant that ATi could implement some sort of Physics processing on their GPUs as well. 
I Heard rumours that ATi may get rights to use HAVOC? But HAVOC is more of a software based(CPU intensive) physics processing which competed with the erstwhile Aegiea Hardwrae based PhysX. To use HAVOC; I think that ATi will use it's GPGPU technology to offload considerable part of the processing to its graphics card.
I mean Nvidia has an edge over ATi because of their PhysX and CUDA support, this is where ATi has to work upon.

Offtopic: I hate Intel poking their nose into GPU market with Larrabee; after almost a decade of inactivity... I mean this makes the market even worse and Titles hard to choose from becaus eone game will be good on one; other game will be better on other. though it may help in price regulation.


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## imgame2 (Aug 21, 2008)

IronManForever said:


> Offtopic: I hate Intel poking their nose into GPU market with Larrabee; after almost a decade of inactivity... I mean this makes the market even worse and Titles hard to choose from becaus eone game will be good on one; other game will be better on other. though it may help in price regulation.



personally i feel its a good thing because intel is bringing entirely new concept or approach than the existing one employed by ATI and nVidia ...rather than increasing the transistor count and jumping on new fabrication processes to pump up higher clocks ,which was the trend in last few years.....intel is looking things in a different manner ...making it general purpose GPU which will give a lot of benefit to games designers. 

it might do graphics computation and physics computations at the same time,cos its more like CPU than GPU but it can do all a GPU can do.

but having said that all this in theory looks good i hope we can see some great performances in games.then it will break the old shackles.....


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## tkin (Aug 22, 2008)

imgame2 said:


> personally i feel its a good thing because intel is bringing entirely new concept or approach than the existing one employed by ATI and nVidia ...rather than increasing the transistor count and jumping on new fabrication processes to pump up higher clocks ,which was the trend in last few years.....intel is looking things in a different manner ...making it general purpose GPU which will give a lot of benefit to games designers.
> 
> *it might do graphics computation and physics computations at the same time,cos its more like CPU than GPU but it can do all a GPU can do.*
> 
> but having said that all this in theory looks good i hope we can see some great performances in games.then it will break the old shackles.....


It will require a lot of processing power. I mean think about a 3GHz C2D/Q and ATI HD4870/nVidia GTX280 in one package, and did I mention a lot of power and really really fast RAM(4GB DDR3 anyone?)


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## imgame2 (Aug 22, 2008)

tkin said:


> It will require a lot of processing power. I mean think about a 3GHz C2D/Q and ATI HD4870/nVidia GTX280 in one package, and did I mention a lot of power and really really fast RAM(4GB DDR3 anyone?)



yes actually it will do a lot of processing power actually larrabee prototype has 10 cores running @ 1GHz with DDR5 RAM (almost Twice as fast as DDR3)..they have presented a paper on this prototype's performance ....its quite technical but result can be seen here 

*www.trustedreviews.com/graphics/review/2008/08/04/Intel-Larrabee--An-Introduction/p5

what is shown about is just a prototype ...real thing is supposed to have 32 cores intially and 48 cores in latter stages...



> According to industry sources, Intel is the first version to introduce core Larrabee, 32, the year after a 48-core version of the miniaturization process, scheduled to launch. The 32 core version, derived from 24 core (core to disable the bad version) of the product to be commercialized.



source - *translate.google.com/translate?u=*...s/2007/0611/kaigai364.htm&sl=ja&tl=en|English

this is supposed to come by the mid of next year...if they keep the price/performance ratio better it will be a hit and a headache for nVidia/ATI but ..things are changing fast here ....and if u still think G92 core is not old ....think again ....


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## hellgate (Aug 23, 2008)

hey need a new gfx cartd.
currently i own a 8800GTS 320MB and i'm selling it 4 10k.
hav bout 15-20k budget.so which card sud i buy.suggest models that r available in Kolkata.


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## nish_higher (Aug 23, 2008)

^ 4870 for 16k

too good u r getting 10k for the GTS


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## imgame2 (Aug 23, 2008)

nish_higher said:


> ^ 4870 for 16k
> 
> too good u r getting 10k for the GTS



where HD 4870 is for 16k ?


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## nish_higher (Aug 23, 2008)

for now 
*www.techenclave.com/dealer-s-paradise/cs-ati-radeon-4870-a-117468.html

just wait for today and watch Lynx-India's price-
4850 for just 9100 (i guess this is what i heard ) + shipping 
and 4870 would be cheaper too.. 
i called him and he told me these prices


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## IronManForever (Aug 23, 2008)

imgame2 said:
			
		

> personally i feel its a good thing because intel is bringing entirely new concept or approach than the existing one employed by ATI and nVidia ...rather than increasing the transistor count and jumping on new fabrication processes to pump up higher clocks ,which was the trend in last few years.....intel is looking things in a different manner ...making it general purpose GPU which will give a lot of benefit to games designers.



Well Intel's concept hasnt been really convincing to game developers. Intel are optimising their hardware for raytracing whereas the developers are stuck at rasterisation. Developers think that the future lies in usage of raytracing and rasterization both but Intel wants to do away with rasterization altogether. So, unless Intel goes the developers way; we wont be able to see any titles for Intel soon. And in preliminary stages; price/performance ration will be pathetic. 



			
				hellgate said:
			
		

> hey need a new gfx cartd.
> currently i own a 8800GTS 320MB and i'm selling it 4 10k.
> hav bout 15-20k budget.so which card sud i buy.suggest models that r available in Kolkata.


Man! thats a really great deal. 10 k? Not to crap it all but; who's giving you that? 
Anyways go for *HD4870 1GB* variant..


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## hellgate (Aug 23, 2008)

^^^  i'm selling off the card to a local guy.he's too happy to get that card 4 10k.now i'm thinking i sud hav told him 12k in the 1st place.


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## nish_higher (Aug 23, 2008)

thats great 
now get a 4870 for 40k from him


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## imgame2 (Aug 23, 2008)

IronManForever said:


> Well Intel's concept hasnt been really convincing to game developers. Intel are optimising their hardware for raytracing whereas the developers are stuck at rasterisation. Developers think that the future lies in usage of raytracing and rasterization both but Intel wants to do away with rasterization altogether. So, unless Intel goes the developers way; we wont be able to see any titles for Intel soon. And in preliminary stages; price/performance ration will be pathetic.
> 
> 
> Man! thats a really great deal. 10 k? Not to crap it all but; who's giving you that?
> Anyways go for *HD4870 1GB* variant..



ray tracing gives very realistic results 

look at some of these pics here

pic 1 - *radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/gallery/image/61n4.jpg
pic 2 - *radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/gallery/image/MeetingRoom.jpg
pic 3 - *radsite.lbl.gov/radiance/gallery/image/MeetingPlace.jpg
pic 4 - *upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Glasses_800_edit.png
pic 5 - *blogs.intel.com/research/teas_edited-1.jpg

so far raytracing required very complex computations ..but larrabee due to fast throughput can deliver the results.

about intel being all about raytracing is proved wrong 

read here - *www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9016&Itemid=1

so intel will support both raytracing and rasterisation ...cos intel knows thats the way to go....regarding price/performance ratio we can't predict anything till v get to know the price and performance.


and HD4870 1Gb model will cost 1~1.5k more


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