# Should i upgrade my GPU or wait for next gen cards?



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

Ok i have 7850 2 gb card and its running all the recent games at max detail and even crysis 3 at almost max at 1080p. Should i upgrade my card to 7970 or something to play nxt gen games like watch dogs, Bf4 at max? Or should i wait couple of months if new cards are coming by that time?


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 16, 2013)

Just overclock it and you'll be fine. post complete specs.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

Ok here are my system specs, anything more need to know let me know: 

Cpu : i5 2500K
Ram : 8GB sniper
PSU: Seasonic S12II 620 Bronze
MotherBoard: Asus P8 Z77-V PRO
GPU: Saphire 7850 HD


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 16, 2013)

Badmash said:


> Ok here are my system specs, anything more need to know let me know:
> 
> Cpu : i5 2500K
> Ram : 8GB sniper
> ...


The system is perfectly fine for gaming. Just overclock the CPu and GPU and you are good to go. And which PSU? Not using any aftermarket cooler?


----------



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

PSU: Seasonic S12II 620 Bronze and no cooler :/


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 16, 2013)

Well then, get a cpu cooler and overclock heavily.

Well then, get a cpu cooler and overclock heavily.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

No experience in overclocking


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 16, 2013)

Google it. There are many guides available. And DO read many of them and clear all concepts before progressing with the process. But first of all, get a new cooler, the stock cooler is not at all intended for overclocking.


----------



## varun004 (Jun 16, 2013)

dump that 7850. You got the money to spend get something special like gtx 770 killer of a card. Stay away from overclocking stuff damages the parts reduces the life. You can boast and show off your 770 to your friends and boost your ego. Enjoy life man.


----------



## dan4u (Jun 16, 2013)

I would recommend you to get a 7850 or 7870 and crossfire it with your existing 7850, the performance will be equal to a gtx 680 or a 7970


----------



## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 16, 2013)

varun004 said:


> dump that 7850. You got the money to spend get something special like gtx 770 killer of a card. Stay away from overclocking stuff damages the parts reduces the life. You can boast and show off your 770 to your friends and boost your ego. Enjoy life man.


well well well if he would be that RICH he would have bought without even thinking ....


dan4u said:


> I would recommend you to get a 7850 or 7870 and crossfire it with your existing 7850, the performance will be equal to a gtx 680 or a 7970


thats a good option ....... ^^


----------



## varun004 (Jun 16, 2013)

never corssfire mid range card ever always buy a single high performance card avoid crossfire/sli drivers aint that good. 2 cards will suck more power and more heat in the process. So go for 770 if possible.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

Hmmm yeah i don't want crossfire thingy, prefer single card tbh xD but how is GTX 770 compared to 7970?


----------



## Nerevarine (Jun 16, 2013)

why would you even want to upgrade, when already it delivers the optimal performance you require ?
Just wait a year or two before making another mid range bump


----------



## varun004 (Jun 16, 2013)

Badmash said:


> Hmmm yeah i don't want crossfire thingy, prefer single card tbh xD but how is GTX 770 compared to 7970?


they are neck to neck. But if you are buying nvidia for first time than go for 770 there drivers are better than amd.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 16, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> why would you even want to upgrade, when already it delivers the optimal performance you require ?
> Just wait a year or two before making another mid range bump



Well cuz i am afraid watchdogs and bf4 won't be maxed out on this


----------



## topgear (Jun 18, 2013)

varun004 said:


> they are neck to neck. But if you are buying nvidia for first time than go for 770 there drivers are better than amd.



yep nvidia's drivers are better but that may be for multi gpus only and did you heard about the recent driver issue of nvidia ?

Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Driver is Damaging GPUs - ModCrash


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 18, 2013)

@op, if you are afraid that those games might not run, then wait for them to release, then see if they work (dont forget overclocking). Then if they dont work, you'll have many more options to upgrade.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 19, 2013)

harshilsharma63 said:


> @op, if you are afraid that those games might not run, then wait for them to release, then see if they work (dont forget overclocking). Then if they dont work, you'll have many more options to upgrade.



Hmmmm i guess that's what i should do, thanks guys


----------



## varun004 (Jun 19, 2013)

the only next gen card is coming from amd the 8000 series. Nvidia maxwell maybe next year. Even then current high end gpus are capable enough to handle any next gen titles simply because they are going to run on consoles which have mid range gpus in them.


----------



## Nerevarine (Jun 20, 2013)

The AMD 8xxx series is supposed to be a rebadge of the current 7xxx series


----------



## varun004 (Jun 20, 2013)

Nerevarine said:


> The AMD 8xxx series is supposed to be a rebadge of the current 7xxx series


they already did that for laptop oem but not for desktop. They'll introduce completely different chip for desktop 8000 series. I checked in ocn forums, there is a thread on it with all the specs mentioned. Check it out.


----------



## Hrishi (Jun 20, 2013)

A decent suggestion would be to Slightly Overclock your card using a beginners guide to Overclocking GPUs/CPUs. It's not that hard really , as it sounds unless you are planning on something huge like 30-40% overclock or more.
If you having enough cash to spare , then that's a different story.

The setup you have isn't that old.It'll suffice for an year. Upgrading right now wouldn't be as clever as waiting for an year and then upgrade. New generation of games are coming , so there's a good probablity that current GPU cards will get obsolete in a li'l while. So , wait for those games to be released and then choose your card accordingly.
I went through an article , which stated that next-gen games are going to be graphic intense.


----------



## varun004 (Jun 20, 2013)

overclocking wont help much if not done aggressively It will result in only 5-10% performance increase. Not enough to compensate for what a high end gpu can offer. Next gen games are more likely to use the console power to achieve higher fps at higher resolutions without any drastic change in the look of the games. That being said current gen of gpu already run games on these levels and will do in future titles too. Next gen gpu wont provide a huge performance boost either it will be around 10-20% but lower power consumption which has become a major challenge for gpu makers these days as they are more likely to compete in mobile sector. 
So all in all you are safe in the hands of current gen gpus for atleast 2-3 years.


----------



## Cilus (Jun 20, 2013)

From where did you get all those info? Were you involved in the developement of Play Station 4 SOC or juit guessing?


----------



## topgear (Jun 21, 2013)

varun004 said:


> overclocking wont help much if not done aggressively It will result in only 5-10% performance increase. Not enough to compensate for what a high end gpu can offer. *Next gen games are more likely to use the console power to achieve higher fps at higher resolutions without any drastic change in the look of the games.* That being said current gen of gpu already run games on these levels and will do in future titles too. Next gen gpu wont provide a huge performance boost either it will be around 10-20% but lower power consumption which has become a major challenge for gpu makers these days as they are more likely to compete in mobile sector.
> So all in all you are safe in the hands of current gen gpus for atleast 2-3 years.



lol .. most of the good games should have different versions for pc and console(s) ( instead of some stupid buggy porting stuff ) and pc version always looks better as it requires a pc with high specs which can kick out any console in terms of processing power be it a cpu or gpu and no console is ever gonna be more powerful than pc.


----------



## quark004 (Jun 21, 2013)

^^ i can't agree more with you pc will always remain more powerful than consoles. I am just saying op does not have to wait for next gen cards, this gen will suffice.


----------



## Cilus (Jun 21, 2013)

Topgear, now the concept is little different. Currently in PC, CPU and GPU can't work over a single item in a uniform manner, it is either dedicated to CPU or GPU. But in the new consoles, AMD implemented a new type of Heterogeneous Computing, namely HSA or Heterogeneous System Architecture which unifies all the Processing elements like CPU, GPU and any other co-processors under a single block and Programmers or developers can write their program in such a manner with the API provided that the application can be executed by all the available processing resourcse, not by only CPU or GPU or special purpose elements. It is also providing HUMA or Heterogeneous Unified Memory Access which enables both CPU and GPU to access same memory space, Page Tables and Virtual Memory space smae way, resulting reduction of latency and ease in programming.
Because of those facts, the current generation consoles can deliver performance in such a level shich might be higher for only CPU or only GPU used in current generation PC hardware. Non to mention, consoles run very optimized and efficient OS which is tailor made for their hardware, resulting very efficient management and hence higher performance.

I have just started learning OpenCL programming language which is considered as the future language for Heterogeneous System and belive me, now getting ideas about how HSA will work. The ideas are although similar to a x86 based high level language, the implementations are quiet different.


----------



## nikhilsharma007nikx (Jun 21, 2013)

WTF !! man !! u truly are a geek !!!!


----------



## avinandan012 (Jun 21, 2013)

If only someone invents something which can bypass DirectX in Windows then we can have very efficient games written for PC with high visual quality still enjoyable in a Mid range PC without HSA.

Waiting for a day in future where a Linux based alternative will be available for gaming PCs.



nikhilsharma007nikx said:


> WTF !! man !! u truly are a geek !!!!


well he really is.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 21, 2013)

Hmmmmm so i guess buying a new card next year would be better


----------



## Hrishi (Jun 21, 2013)

Badmash said:


> Hmmmmm so i guess buying a new card next year would be better


Its advised to get high on VRAM as much possible. GDDR5.
And a CPU with as many cores.


----------



## Badmash (Jun 21, 2013)

Rishi. said:


> Its advised to get high on VRAM as much possible. GDDR5.
> And a CPU with as many cores.



i5 2500K with some high card like 7970 won't be enough?  i mean i can upgrade GPU but CPU too seems kinda costly


----------



## Hrishi (Jun 21, 2013)

Badmash said:


> i5 2500K with some high card like 7970 won't be enough?  i mean i can upgrade GPU but CPU too seems kinda costly


Yes , it should suffice. What I am talking about is higher amount of Graphic Memory , like say 4 GB GDDR5.


----------



## topgear (Jun 22, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Topgear, now the concept is little different. Currently in PC, CPU and GPU can't work over a single item in a uniform manner, it is either dedicated to CPU or GPU. But in the new consoles, AMD implemented a new type of Heterogeneous Computing, namely HSA or Heterogeneous System Architecture which unifies all the Processing elements like CPU, GPU and any other co-processors under a single block and Programmers or developers can write their program in such a manner with the API provided that the application can be executed by all the available processing resourcse, not by only CPU or GPU or special purpose elements. It is also providing HUMA or Heterogeneous Unified Memory Access which enables both CPU and GPU to access same memory space, Page Tables and Virtual Memory space smae way, resulting reduction of latency and ease in programming.
> 
> Because of those facts, the current generation consoles can deliver performance in such a level shich might be higher for only CPU or only GPU used in current generation PC hardware. Non to mention, consoles run very optimized and efficient OS which is tailor made for their hardware, resulting very efficient management and hence higher performance.
> 
> I have just started learning OpenCL programming language which is considered as the future language for Heterogeneous System and belive me, now getting ideas about how HSA will work. The ideas are although similar to a x86 based high level language, the implementations are quiet different.



Thanks Cilus for being a great source of knowledge always 



avinandan012 said:


> If only someone invents something which can bypass DirectX in Windows then we can have very efficient games written for PC with high visual quality still enjoyable in a Mid range PC without HSA.
> 
> Waiting for a day in future where a Linux based alternative will be available for gaming PCs.
> 
> well he really is.



even I had high hopes from linux ( used to play windows games on linux too ) but still pc gaming is DX based and will remain like this on the future.


----------



## dan4u (Jun 22, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Topgear, now the concept is little different. Currently in PC, CPU and GPU can't work over a single item in a uniform manner, it is either dedicated to CPU or GPU. But in the new consoles, AMD implemented a new type of Heterogeneous Computing, namely HSA or Heterogeneous System Architecture which unifies all the Processing elements like CPU, GPU and any other co-processors under a single block


You mean like AMD's APU series...


----------



## harshilsharma63 (Jun 22, 2013)

dan4u said:


> You mean like AMD's APU series...


Yes, its like APU.


----------



## Cilus (Jun 23, 2013)

Although current generation APUs ( Llano, Trinity and Richland) provides very good scope for Heterogeneous computing, they are not HSA and don't support Unified Memory Access or UMA. The advantage here is that CPU cores and GPU dies ae placed insde a single package, resulting very fast switching among them and  assigning tasks more efficiently as per the need. But they memory architecture they use is called *Unified Memory Architecture* which is different from *Unified Memory Access*. 
Let me explain a little:-
In the current generation APU, the GPU die accesses the same Physical Memory which the CPU is also using. But here, for GPU, an amount of Ram is allocated as a logical block which CPU can't access and can only accessed by GPU. Similarly the rest of the Memory can only be accessed by CPU and GPU can't access it. Say I have 8 GB Ram in my system and 2 GB is allocated for GPU. So inside an APU, GPU can only access that 2 GB portion and CPU can only access the rest 6 GB portion. Now suppose a program consisting of three threads, say T1, T2 and T3 are placed inside the memory accessed by CPU. 

T1 & T2: CPU thread
T3: Graphics Thread, needs GPU.

Now how things will work in current generation APU: 
1. CPU will fetch information about T1, T2 and T3.
2. 1st it will assign T1 and T2 to its cores.
3. For T3, it will make a request to GPU die by message passing techniques and share the information of T3 (Like the data where it will be operated, instructions).
4. Based on the information, GPU will allocate a Space in within its 2 GB memory. If required size is not available, GPU might increase the allocated Ram size dynamically or remove some data which is not currently in use. It might take several CPU clock Cycle.
5. After that, CPU will copy the tasks and the data required for T3's execution into Memory allocated to GPU. It will also maintain a lock to its own copy of T3's data to that other programs can't modify it while T3 is being processed in GPU.
6. Then GPU will start executing T3.
7. After execution is completed, GPU will save the updated data or result into its own allocated memory where T3 was copied.
8. It will then sends a signal to CPU, informing the completion of the task and the location where the result is stored.
9. CPU will then copy from that data from memory allocated to GPU to its own memory and updates its own copy of T3.


Now if HUMA is implemented, there won't be any logical distinction CPU memory or GPU memory and they will access the same memory in a unified manner. So how a upcoming Kaveri APU will execute the same task:

1. CPU will fetch information about T1, T2 and T3.
2. 1st it will assign T1 and T2 to its cores.
3. For T3, it will pass the information, starting address and end address of T3 to GPU.
4. GPU will directly fetch T3 from Ram and start executing it. It also maintain a lock to it so that other CPU programs can't access it.
5. Once the thread T3 is completed, GPU will directly update the result in Ram and again transfer the control to CPU.


I think now you guys can understand in a high level how the program will be faster even without increasing the performance of CPU or GPU alone. In PS4 and XboX Next SOC, AMD has already implemented HUMA (Heterogeneous Unified Memory Access) and Kaveri will be the 1st PC APU to implement it. Here even a modest performance boost in either CPU or GPU or both can result very high performance boost in overall capabilities due to these advanced features. OpenCL is being considered the the next generation language for programming and HSA is being implemented in every aspect, even in Mobile SOC platform. Qualcom, Samsung, Imagination (PowerVR GPU makers), MediaTek, Texus Instruments, ARM, LG...all are members of HSA foundation and working to improve performance in their SOC (Which is just like an APU, having multiple different type of Processing units like CPU, GPU, Digital Signall Processor, Wifi Module  etc integrated in a single chip). Recently Qualcom has shown OpenCL based Image editing applications and Gaming performance in Kindle Fire HD where the improvement was more than 50% in some cases. 
So you understand that how HSA model is going to be the future...very powerful CPU or GPU will not hold the future...it will be unified performance all the way.

OpenCL mod for the Kindle Fire HD reveals untapped graphics potential (hands-on video)


----------



## topgear (Jun 23, 2013)

^ I think you have placed T3 instead on T2 several times or am I wrong ? 

anyway, now I understand why Nvidia is going to license it's gpu cores to other manufacturer in the future - may be Intel is going to be their biggest customer on this.


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 23, 2013)

avinandan012 said:


> Waiting for a day in future where a Linux based alternative will be available for gaming PCs.
> .



steam for linux? 
Featured Linux Games 
quite a few good games are available on linux now, more are coming in future.


----------



## Cilus (Jun 23, 2013)

topgear said:


> ^ I think you have placed T3 instead on T2 several times or am I wrong ?
> 
> anyway, now I understand why Nvidia is going to license it's gpu cores to other manufacturer in the future - may be Intel is going to be their biggest customer on this.



You are right buddy, my mistake in the 1st place. Edited. Thanks for pointing out.


----------

