# BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20% & new 512k UL Plan



## paid (Mar 30, 2008)

Good news for Broadband users. from 1st April Home 900 Tariff be reduced to 750/- and new plan of Home 1350 at 512Kbps unlimited will be introduced. now these people thinking on Unlimited planas also 


Source Dainik jagaran. But why they choose 1st April............


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## 2kewl (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Wow...awesome news, if true!


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## shri (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

*vinuthomas.com/uploads/forums/unlimited_home_750___1350.pdf

Shouldn't this be in the NEWS section?


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## vaithy (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

This circular is till in WAN/ Intranet sites only.. signed copy of the circular will be received in April first week.. so their may be some delay expected for local announcement..


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## sachin_kothari (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Great and Welcome News


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## BBThumbHealer (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Is this for BSNL only or all the ISP's ? i m on Airtel 999 Home Plan ..


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## webgenius (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Beware folks...The new plan is effective from April 1......


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## Pathik (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

If it's 1st April, It's probably not happening.


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## jax_diu (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

now broadband users cross the limit.
haha


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## DigitalDude (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*



Pathik said:


> If it's 1st April, It's probably not happening.


not necessarily all the time

Google launched Gmail on April 1st  



_


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## drgrudge (Mar 30, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Great news. If this is true, I'll on Home 1350. 

But I guess it will take time. Today only BSNL advertised the UL 900 home plans in The Hindu.


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## Tech.Masti (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Today bsnl also advertised  in Kolkata Times of india about unlimited 900 plan


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## vaithy (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

that advertisements slots were booked before month , hence refelect the old rates.. obviously marketing wing of BSNL always lacks behind due information of plans from the commercial wing...


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## praka123 (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

^any idea whether H500 will get 4mbps speed or not?many ppl reported that they get 4mbps speed sometimes(esp in kerla)


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## techtronic (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

If thats the case then they should also introduce 1 Mbps ULTD Plans @ double the cost of 512 Kbps ULTD Plans.


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## naveen_reloaded (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Isnt it cheaper?
Ok tell...me..can i use my Airtel modem with bsnl?
Do they include tax also or should we have add 12% to those tarif?


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## kumarmohit (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Naturally taxes r extra.


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## din (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

This is really great. 

Whatever negative points we list against BSNL, only they started the broadband revolution in India and they bring very competitive rates especially for Unlimited schemes.


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## mikeon (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

is H500 really going to be upgraded to 4mbps? Is this true ?


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## blackpearl (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*



mikeon said:


> is H500 really going to be upgraded to 4mbps? Is this true ?



What's the use if it's still capped at 2.5GB.

Anyway, are other plans tariffs reduced too?


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## The Conqueror (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

Shouldn't This be in News Section ?
is it an april fool joke ????
If its true then i m on Home1350


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## Harvik780 (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

The higher the speed the more the speed loss .
BSNL employee answer = Yeh sab to chalta raihta hai.

Good news BTW.
I pay rs 2244 PM to get approximately 58KBps(464Kbps) constant on two 256Kbps connections.


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## Ecko (Mar 31, 2008)

*BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

We'll there is some exciting news here 
BSNL Will (Just See it Below)

*i32.tinypic.com/vd1hkz.jpg

Also Here is the PDF

*www.mediafire.com/?ejezkdysjxx


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## aditya.shevade (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

BSNL sucks... tell them to increase the speeds first then think of reducing the prise....


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## The Conqueror (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

Now its confirmed , I thought its an April Fool joke.............
I ll switch to 1350 now


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## axxo (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

much better option would be this...
get one connection of 750 UL
another one connection of 500 Night UL  -> 750+500=1250 < 1350 you get 2mbps unlimited night and 256kbps unlimited day.


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## The Conqueror (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

Good Idea but can we take 2 connections on a single pc ??


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## ico (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*



axxo said:


> much better option would be this...
> get one connection of 750 UL
> another one connection of 500 Night UL -> 750+500=1250 < 1350 you get 2mbps unlimited night and 256kbps unlimited day.


^^ +1
Thats what I was thinking. I already pay Rs.1000 for H1000 and my father won't mind this combination because we'll just have to pay Rs.250 more.

@The Conqueror
We can't get 2 types of BSNL Broadband connections on one landline connection AFAIK. I've two BSNL landlines. So, this is not going to be a problem for me....... We can't have 2 connections running simultaneously on one PC.
*
Offtopic and also Ontopic:* Why is that Fraudband 2007 logo still there?? I think it can be an April Fool kind of thing. Lets wait and see for their website to be updated.


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## INS-ANI (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*

whew! 
all BSNL user, how much time does BSNL takes to give connections after application by user?
and what are the basic documentation required?is it must to have the basic phone for a connection, or it can be provided w/o the basic phone?

The problem with us is ..we r college students.


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 31, 2008)

ohh..finally BSNL launched 512 UL plan for home users.


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## motobuntu (Mar 31, 2008)

@INS-ANI, I got my BB connection within 4 days, and most of my friends also got their connections within a week.

You must have a bsnl landline phone to get the BB connection.
no extra documents req., just fill a simple form, pay the money and get the connection.


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## ico (Mar 31, 2008)

ravi 9793 said:


> ohh..finally BSNL launched 512 UL plan for home users.



and its cheaper to that of Airtel's.......


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## Ecko (Mar 31, 2008)

Guyz Someone please post how to bridge connections 
Cause I already have Reliance connction which sucks
We'll I 2 gonna pay then 750+500  if possible
But please someone post a tutorial how to bridge connection


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## ico (Mar 31, 2008)

^^ Do you mean to say how to connect in Bridged mode without using the Modem's PPPoE dialer??


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## MetalheadGautham (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: BSNL To Further reduce Broadband Prices*



axxo said:


> much better option would be this...
> get one connection of 750 UL
> another one connection of 500 Night UL  -> 750+500=1250 < 1350 you get 2mbps unlimited night and 256kbps unlimited day.


el perfecto

but even then, H500 rules any day(or night) due to its pricing combined with offered bandwidth.


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## DigitalDude (Mar 31, 2008)

@Ecko


*img359.imageshack.us/img359/3172/bridgeconnxnwe2.jpg


or use a router


_


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## kumarmohit (Mar 31, 2008)

Well Great for BSNL guyz, now that that they have 512kbps unltd. Hey MTNL we are waiting!


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## harryneopotter (Apr 1, 2008)

on topic : Really its a good step in the direction of providing cheaper broadband ..... market is more competitive in 512 UL section now .

Off topic : Tata indicom also have a good plan 
3641 Rs for six months (no installation, including taxes) 
26.7777 X 6 Hrs of unlimited broadband @ 2 Mbps
Night Unlimited from 9 PM to 9 AM @ 2 Mbps.


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## axxo (Apr 1, 2008)

nothing mentioned so far about upload rate in case of 512 UL...if its 1:1  then I would opt for otherwise no reason for me to upgrade


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## drgrudge (Apr 1, 2008)

^^ 
It should be 1:1 as they already provide the same in UL plans right now. Even otherwise, I'm going for the 512k UL for sure the next day BSNL puts the same in their website.


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## blueshift (Apr 1, 2008)

Good move after a long time!

Waiting for MTNL to introduce more cheaper(and better) plans.


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## NucleusKore (Apr 1, 2008)

That's good news, good for competition


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## shri (Apr 1, 2008)

*bsnl.co.in/service/dataone_tariff.htm#home

Nothing in BSNL's website so far...


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## QwertyManiac (Apr 1, 2008)

Thats the last site you look at for BSNL news.


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## DigitalDude (Apr 1, 2008)

QwertyManiac said:


> Thats the last site you look at for BSNL news.


lol well said 

the official site is unfortunately and always outdated hehe



_


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## Ramakrishnan (Apr 1, 2008)

Most probably h500 will be upgrade to 8MBps. This is keeping in mind their plans for ipTV which require 8MBps.


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## The Conqueror (Apr 1, 2008)

Ramakrishnan said:


> Most probably h500 will be upgrade to 8MBps. This is keeping in mind their plans for ipTV which require 8MBps.


If this is the case they should also release 2mbps UNlimited plans


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## gunda_26 (Apr 1, 2008)

It may be a hoax,until the real thing comes on the BSNL website.Pdf document mentioned on the net seems to be doctored.The word "competent authority" is seldom used in official parlance.Let us hope this is not a April fools joke.


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## nishantv2003 (Apr 2, 2008)

*BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

Yes guys, u heard right...
On 1st April BSNL introduced the plan 750UL which is replacement of 900UL.
In this plan you will get speed@256kbps and it will be unlimited, plus it will come with a landline phone which will b rentfree(your existing Phone will become rentfree) all this for Rs750(+Tax) per month.
and this is not it...
One new plan is also been introduced which is 1350UL.
In this plan you will get speed of 512kbps unlimited.
For Rs.1350(+Tax) per month.

I think its a pretty nice move by BSNL.....

guys i came to know abt these two new plans through a frnd of mine in BSNL...
the info given by me is right, but i cant tell u the sourse coz i didnt find any where in the net....


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## unni (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

Wow. This is great. Thanks yaar for the info.


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## nvidia (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

Now i hope they increase the bandwidth in H250..


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## max_demon (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

nice News


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## dOm1naTOr (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

Gud one. I think other ISPs also ll soon be forced to reduce 256 UL to 700~750


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## drgrudge (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

Where's the source? BSNL's site reflects the new plans?


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## The Conqueror (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

wow! i m changing to 1350 
btw why isnt BSNL's website being updated??


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## nishantv2003 (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*

i dont know y the site has not been updated???
but the info is 100% right....


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## drgrudge (Apr 2, 2008)

*Re: BSNL Data One 900UL Now 750UL!!!*



nishantv2003 said:


> i dont know y the site has not been updated???
> but the info is 100% right....


Till BSNL site is updated or they advertise in newspapers it's still a rumour. This 'news' is already posted. 

_Merged and moved to Chit Chat. _


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## blackpearl (Apr 2, 2008)

drgrudge said:


> ^^
> It should be 1:1 as they already provide the same in UL plans right now. Even otherwise, I'm going for the 512k UL for sure the next day BSNL puts the same in their website.



It's unlikely that upload/download ratio will be 1:1. Download rate is usually higher than upload rates. That's why it's called an ADSL connection, *Asymmetric* Digital Subscriber Line.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsl


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## max_demon (Apr 2, 2008)

^^ But i get 1:1


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## Rahim (Apr 2, 2008)

^the upload rate is still fluctuating from 20-26 kB/s


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## gary4gar (Apr 3, 2008)

blackpearl said:


> It's unlikely that upload/download ratio will be 1:1. Download rate is usually higher than upload rates. That's why it's called an ADSL connection, *Asymmetric* Digital Subscriber Line.
> 
> *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsl


ADSL,VDSL are different modes of the underlying technology DSL.

Infact one could Switch from One to mode to other very easily.
Also there can be mutiple modes running on a single DSLAM at your exchange, which all depends on speed policy
which means, you could be using ADSL & your friend could be using SDSL

At present BSNL is capable of providing speeds upto24mbps(down) & 8mbps(up).

So upload & download speed ratio depends on different  Plans


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## axxo (Apr 3, 2008)

blackpearl said:


> It's unlikely that upload/download ratio will be 1:1. Download rate is usually higher than upload rates. That's why it's called an ADSL connection, *Asymmetric* Digital Subscriber Line.
> 
> *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsl



I get 1:0.8 ratio; down speed is 240kbps and up speed is 190 kbps..so its obvious we can expect the same for 512kbps also


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## paid (Apr 3, 2008)

Hurray! it's official now 

*www.upe.bsnl.co.in/mktg_schemes/ps02042008_1.htm#102


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## blackpearl (Apr 3, 2008)

gary4gar said:


> ADSL,VDSL are different modes of the underlying technology DSL.
> 
> Infact one could Switch from One to mode to other very easily.
> Also there can be mutiple modes running on a single DSLAM at your exchange, which all depends on speed policy
> ...



All BSNL plans are ADSL plans. There are no SDSL plans in BSNL and VDSL is not yet available in India. The reason some people are getting 1:1 ratios is because of improper configuration and not because of different plans. I have heard of one guy getting 2 mbps speeds on his unlimited Home 900 plan. So if you are getting 1:1 ratio, then enjoy but don't tell BSNL.


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## din (Apr 3, 2008)

paid said:


> Hurray! it's official now
> 
> *www.upe.bsnl.co.in/mktg_schemes/ps02042008_1.htm#102



May be we can move it again to news section ? As it seems genuine now.


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## drgrudge (Apr 3, 2008)

Great News. Next week, I'm going to BSNL exchange to change my plan to 512k UL. 

_Moved to Tech News_.


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## nishantv2003 (Apr 3, 2008)

i told u drgrudge


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## The Conqueror (Apr 3, 2008)

one bsnl officer told me some weeks ago , that they are launching  BSNL Tri-Band (8 mbps) and it may take 5-6 months.anyways i am switching to 1350 as of now


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## ankitsagwekar (Apr 3, 2008)

sabse sasta MTNL 2mbps @ 20k


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## axxo (Apr 3, 2008)

what abt the subscribers who would've paid subscription fees annually?
In case of 900UL annual subs amount comes to 9k..but now it reduces to 7.5k
1.5k will be refunded?


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## max_demon (Apr 3, 2008)

^^ i will now subscrive annually


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## rakee (Apr 4, 2008)

i am happy with my Airtel B....when it comes to after install services..

but seems now bsnl is luring me in with their low cost and high speeds


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## techtronic (Apr 16, 2008)

Now Chennai Dataone Users can also avail UL1350 Plans.
Source : *chennai.bsnl.co.in/News/ul750_150408.htm


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## drgrudge (Apr 16, 2008)

I'll be traveling extensively next month. So dunno if I want to upgrade now.


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## The Conqueror (Apr 16, 2008)

Why is the official dataone.in site updated about The HOME UL 750 and UL 1350 Plans ??

And it is showing in user records that UL 750 but why not they updated their website??


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## scavanger007 (Apr 16, 2008)

wat download speed u guys get 256kbps UL plan?
if it is good then i will shift to UL or will stick 2 H500


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## y2j826 (Apr 16, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*



DigitalDude said:


> not necessarily all the time
> 
> Google launched Gmail on April 1st
> 
> ...


 
thats why it is still in BETA from long time . . .


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## Rahim (Apr 17, 2008)

If i change my 900UL to 1350UL will BSNL provide me a new modem & which type? Any extra charges?


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## g_suresh_mps (Apr 17, 2008)

Good News ....

Thanks BSNL ....


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## gary4gar (Apr 17, 2008)

rahimveron said:


> If i change my 900UL to 1350UL will BSNL provide me a new modem & which type? Any extra charges?


Why you need a new Router/CPE?


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## Rahim (Apr 17, 2008)

^Thats exactly my point. BSNL might put/force me  to buy a modem  and i find my existing one UTSTAR300R2 to be fine.


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## gary4gar (Apr 17, 2008)

rahimveron said:


> ^Thats exactly my point. BSNL might put/force me  to buy a modem  and i find my existing one UTSTAR300R2 to be fine.


Why you feel so?


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## knowledgegainer (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: Yippie! BSNL Unlimited Broadband tariffs to reduce by 20%*

*i m using modem provided by bsnl ut300rtu
with home 900 ul plan
i only get 30kbs speed..
is it usual or there is problem in  my modem
*


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## Smoke (Apr 18, 2008)

^^ Problem is not with the modem but with the plan.
Go for 2mbps unlimited for 20k+ then you will see good speed


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## Rahim (Apr 18, 2008)

gary4gar said:


> Why you feel so?


Bcoz last time when i changed my plan from limited home 500 to 900UL they sent me a modem and told me that it will be charged in the bill. SO i told them that i have chosen "BSNL should not provide me a modem" option in the application form and yet they wanted me buy it. Strange guys. So i rejected to purchase that modem and just told them to change the plan.



knowledgegainer said:


> *i m using modem provided by bsnl ut300rtu
> with home 900 ul plan
> i only get 30kbs speed..
> is it usual or there is problem in  my modem
> *


Thats the max speed of 256kbps 900UL Plan. 256/8=32kB/s


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## paid (Apr 18, 2008)

*Unbelievable but 500 Combo & 500 Combo+ plans finally to become UNLIMITED....................now BSNL officials should correct their homepage 2008 instead 2007 as "Year of Broadband". 

BSNL Rocks........

cheers!!!
source Newspaper*


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## techtronic (Apr 18, 2008)

@paid - What do u mean by this ?
Home 500 Combo Plans have capped bandwidth. How can they give uncapped bandwidth @ Rs.500 that too @ 2Mbps speed ?

Generally I feel that they should increase the night unlimited from 2am-8am to 12am-8am.I feel this would be a good deal for Home 500 or other capped bandwidth users.

Finally bsnl.co.in website is updated with latest tariffs.
*bsnl.co.in/service/dataone_tariff.htm


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## The Conqueror (Apr 18, 2008)

@piad : How come 500 plans become unlimited when 512kbps unlimited is @ Rs 1350, 2mbps unlimited should be atleast 4k ! !!

Yeah its good that atleast they have updated their website, now m gonna change my plan to 1350 ASAP


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## paid (Apr 18, 2008)

The Conqueror said:


> @piad : How come 500 plans become unlimited when 512kbps unlimited is @ Rs 1350, 2mbps unlimited should be atleast 4k ! !!
> 
> Yeah its good that atleast they have updated their website, now m gonna change my plan to 1350 ASAP



it's hard to believe myself but as the news published in same source it might be true. i will try to get the scan


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## The Conqueror (Apr 18, 2008)

^^ It must be Night Unlimited, and the newspaper might have made a typo and wrote it as Unlimited instead


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## knowledgegainer (Apr 18, 2008)

techtronic said:


> @paid - What do u mean by this ?
> Home 500 Combo Plans have capped bandwidth. How can they give uncapped bandwidth @ Rs.500 that too @ 2Mbps speed ?
> 
> Generally I feel that they should increase the night unlimited from 2am-8am to 12am-8am.I feel this would be a good deal for Home 500 or other capped bandwidth users.
> ...


*no they should provide from 10.00 pm 2 8.00 am as this means night unlimited ..
who the hell will wake up at 2.00 am
*

*



			Thats the max speed of 256kbps 900UL Plan. 256/8=32kB/s
		
Click to expand...



hen i used home500 plan then also i got 30 kb/s
*


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## gary4gar (Apr 18, 2008)

BSNL now has a expanded set of plans which can cater needs of everyone.



knowledgegainer said:


> *no they should provide from 10.00 pm 2 8.00 am as this means night unlimited ..
> who the hell will wake up at 2.00 am
> *
> 
> ...


Regarding NU, you are not the one who decides what should be the NU time, its decided by BSNL. However i do feel the time should be a 1200hrs to 0800hrs as given to MTNL users. Simply the matter in not in our hands.

All you could do is Schedule your downloads. its not the perfect solution but thats all you could do.
here is guide==> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40431


BSNL has upgraded speeds few months back and the current speed of Home 500 is Upto 2mbps, but previously is was 256kpbs.
so your are right in your prospective.


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## knowledgegainer (Apr 19, 2008)

*



			BSNL has upgraded speeds few months back and the current speed of Home 500 is Upto 2mbps, but previously is was 256kpbs.
so your are right in your prospective.
		
Click to expand...


ok
now it's ok 
*


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## paid (Apr 21, 2008)

Sorry I am late to reply as my mobile camera bluetooth was out of order therefore I was unable to transfer snap. 
Snapshot *img76.imageshack.us/img76/5822/broadbandom4.th.jpg


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## The Conqueror (Apr 21, 2008)

The image looks quite blurred but anyways i am shocked about this !!


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## Chirag (Apr 21, 2008)

@paid - Can u upload the image on digit server?


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## paid (Apr 21, 2008)

Chirag said:


> @paid - Can u upload the image on digit server?



Dunno why you asking...........anyway uploaded


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## dheeraj_kumar (Apr 21, 2008)

Can someone translate the above picture? I'm afraid I dont know hindi...


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## mrbgupta (Apr 21, 2008)

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@


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## din (Apr 23, 2008)

OK, went to the BSNL exchange and gave application for plan change (to 1350 UL Plus). They accepted it, but it seems they didn't get the official notification. Also they can't find it in the system (may be not updated it yet). So not sure whether they will be able to make it next month


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## din (Apr 27, 2008)

Update

The BSNL exchange people called me back telling, the 1350 plan showed up in their system the very next day and they changed my plan to that. 

Waiting for May 1 !


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## din (May 1, 2008)

Update again :

OK, I am on the new 1350 plan.

I couldn't check the portal last night, was down, and couldn't check in the morning too. Checked just now and it shows

Plan Name  	Home Plan UL 1350 Plus
Order Status 	Provisioned

Tried downloading Ubuntu and getting speeds 40-50 Kbps, so I guess I am on new plan ?


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## QwertyManiac (May 1, 2008)

din - You gave a letter for it?


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## din (May 1, 2008)

Yes, I gave a written letter (just hand written requesting to change my plan to 1350 UL Plus). They checked (exchange people) in their system the same day and told me they couldn't find such a plan, but they could make it the very next day.

I mean they changed it, but plan effective from today only.


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## QwertyManiac (May 1, 2008)

Thats cool then, I hope to have it from next month on, thanks!


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## techx (May 20, 2008)

How much does they charge for modem now
and how much will it cost if we buy modem seperately
& how we have to pay monthly( incl tax modem charge and other misc) 
BTW I want the tariff plan implemented in kerela
......Before reading this thread I posted another thread illustrating the same question .sorry 4 that


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