# AMD Llano (fusion) mobile discussion



## ico (Mar 3, 2011)

[youtube]mdPi4GPEI74[/youtube]

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

*Note:* This video has been uploaded by AMD, so take it with a pinch of a salt.

Llano = optimized Phenom II + HD 6620M (?)

And two mobile platforms are being compared in the video. I don't think Llano would come close to Core i7-2630QM in crunching numbers (CPU power), but if a laptop with this thing is sold at 40k and you're looking for a gaming laptop - it might be _the_ thing to get just like Zacate is.


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## Piyush (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

well 40 k is difficult
but who knows
AMD is better in this area
they can surprise us all by their sweet pricing


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## ico (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

*www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/03/11x01038b73amd.jpg

Core i7-2630QM with a discrete laptop GPU will obviously be faster, but if you look from the view point of OEM, it will be much more expensive. Basically, this thing guns for 35-50k notebooks imho.

I also expect Core i5-2xxxM + discrete GPU power consumption to be higher than the APU previewed in the video.


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## Piyush (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

whoa!!!
128gb SSD
thats the another reason for its prices


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## pauldmps (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

Why they are running CPU benchmarks on different chipsets & GPUs  ? Isn't is totally biased ?


AMD should stick to what it does best - GPUs.


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## Piyush (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^guess what
u missed processors in ur post


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## ico (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



pauldmps said:


> Why they are running CPU benchmarks on different chipsets & GPUs  ? Isn't is totally biased ?
> 
> 
> AMD should stick to what it does best - GPUs.


The whole point they are making is about the overall performance. And they're comparing mobile platforms. It isn't a desktop platform. You need _the_ ideal blend of perfomance with battery life and power consumption.

This is a single laptop chip which contains both CPU and GPU. They aren't gunning for a high end Sandy Bridge + discrete laptop GPU.

In a few months or so, you'll see mobile Sandy Bridge Core i3/i5 processors around 40k with and without discrete graphics. AMD is gunning for them. And I'll play games on my laptop, so I know what I'll have to get.

35k - Core i3-2xxx with no discrete graphics.
40k - Core i3-2xxx with discrete graphics.
45k+ - Core i5-2xxx with discrete graphics.

Now compare these to Llano equivalents. Excellent graphics and almost as good CPU performance.


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## coderunknown (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

40k is impossible for a setup like this (i7 & AMD quad core) cause even if the on-die graphics is just 2-3% slower than a HD6550, manufacturers usually will go for the card & price the laptop at 50-55k. and put up a sticker in the laptop saying "1Gb graphics card. 2gb graphics card.. etc". its not that they don't know about the slim advantage of entrylevel cards over on-processor graphics but its to convince buyers to get a laptop costing 60k that is just a few percent faster than a 40k lappy. 

but i wish that every manufacturer should at least release some performance lappy with GPU & instead put up stickers like "6-7hrs batter life". it mayn't attract everyone but they'll still sell well.

also *if *6620M = HD5650M, theres no need for any GPU. a laptop having that config without the SSD if priced at 45k & offers 3hrs battery life will be a good buy for most.


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## Dangerous Dave (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

nice video!


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## ico (Mar 3, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

My whole point is, this thing is going to be much cheaper to OEMs for entry + mid-level laptops if we compare to Sandy Bridge Core i5 + discrete GPU solution. And power consumption is under great control too.

TDP of a good laptop GPU is 30w.  TDP of Sandy Bridge Core i5 processors is 35w. And TDP of this APU thing is 45w.

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------




Sam.Shab said:


> also *if *6620M = HD5650M, theres no need for any GPU. a laptop having that config without the SSD if priced at 45k & offers 3hrs battery life will be a good buy for most.


HD 6620M = HD 5650M.


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## Joker (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

wow...good days ahead.

this could turn out to be great vfm.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

WOW...

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

CeBIT 2011: AMD Demos Llano Behind Closed Doors : AMD Demos Mobile Llano


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## vickybat (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

I think sandybridge+discrete gpu should be compared with llano based notebooks at the same price point.
Llano cpu cores(stars) will be no match for sandybridge but the apu's will be the difference maker.

If sandybridge(i5) + dedicated gpu is 40k and a llano based notebook is 40k, getting the sandy is a no brainer.
But sandy+discrete gpu @ 40k is too much to ask and imo, it will be more expensive than that. But we never know.


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## pauldmps (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



Piyush said:


> ^^guess what
> u missed processors in ur post



They are comparing processors. Hence they have to be different lol!


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## ico (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

[youtube]XqBk0uHrxII[/youtube]

---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------




vickybat said:


> If sandybridge(i5) + dedicated gpu is 40k and a llano based notebook is 40k, *getting the sandy is a no brainer.*
> But sandy+discrete gpu @ 40k is too much to ask and imo, it will be more expensive than that. But we never know.


Battery.


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## vickybat (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ That is surely a decider as far mobile computing is concerned. But i highly doubt those stars based cpu cores and even if amd optimizes them i don't think they will do a great job in power management. Atleast they are not in the level of sandybridge cpu's.

Bulldozer based fusions will be better owing to their more ground up design. But lets see what these apu's have in store for us.

If amd prices themm right, they will be a killer deal and a more viable option to intel based notebooks which had been dominating for the past decade or more.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

that video is superb..amd is getting back seriously ..its simply awesome. and if that is so powerful than sandy what will bulldozer do!

ico that shows amd sys consuming less watts.!


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## vickybat (Mar 4, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ Jas its not powerful than sandy but is more power efficient. Sandy still has a lot of edge in pure number crunching performance and only bulldozer is expected to beat that.

Like i said, the apu is the difference maker here and its obviously has more rendering potential than sandy igp. Its almost a 5650m.

Sandy+ discrete gpu will be way faster than this but at the cost of tdp and price.
Lets wait and see how amd does the pricing right. That will be the difference maker.

In the high end to upper midrange laptop market, intel will still remain unbeaten until bulldozer challenges. Sandy+gtx 5series m/radeon 6series m will BE SIGNIFICANTLY FASTER.

These stars based apu's will target the entry level to lower midrange notebooks.
But that is actually the sweetspot and revenue generating market.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 5, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

we will see


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## vickybat (Mar 5, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

See the power of sandybridge + discrete gpu *HERE.*


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## utkarsh009 (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

@everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time and doesnt even perform * much better *.


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## vickybat (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ Nope its not. Sandybridge + discrete gpu is a lot powerful and performs much better  but its expensive and does not belong in the same price category.


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## Liverpool_fan (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^ and will take more power as well.


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## vickybat (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ Offcourse it will but relatively. It won't be that much of a power hog. Around 25 watt more imo which is acceptable if more performance is required.

LLano's are aimed for entry level to lower midrange notebooks. They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



utkarsh009 said:


> @everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time and doesnt even perform * much better *.



yea right. those costly lappys are just show off. desktops at that price point will be much-100 better. 

and llano beats sandy in performance in onboard gfx+cpu combo area according to that video. and its power cunsumption is much less. prices should be good. ideal for a laptop imo. (that is meant to be a **laptop**)

and other thing we will see when reviews come out.


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## thetechfreak (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

whatever it is, no one beats AMD in value!

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 PM ----------




> and its power cunsumption is
> much less. prices should be good.
> ideal for a laptop imo. (that is
> meant to be a **laptop**)




hope they are 40k price band. Alienware probably have a profit margin of 150 percent


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## rajan1311 (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



vickybat said:


> ^^ Nope its not. Sandybridge + discrete gpu is a lot powerful and performs much better  but its expensive and does not belong in the same price category.



See buddy, you said it yourself, SB will be more expensive and power hungry 
The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say? 

The sad part is, we are still far away from launch and seeing how long zacate is taking to reach india, its going to be long till we get these in india...I am guessing around Sept at best...

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------




vickybat said:


> They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.



I would never buy a laptop if that was my need


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## utkarsh009 (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



rajan1311 said:


> I would never buy a laptop if that was my need



lolzzz...... that was what i was talking about.


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## vickybat (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



rajan1311 said:


> See buddy, you said it yourself, SB will be more expensive and power hungry
> The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say?
> 
> The sad part is, we are still far away from launch and seeing how long zacate is taking to reach india, its going to be long till we get these in india...I am guessing around Sept at best...
> I would never buy a laptop if that was my need



Yes i agree with you buddy. They are aimed at mainstream users and give a very good balance between performance and power efficiency.

But i disagree with people comparing it with sandybridge cpu's. A llano apu can no way beat a sandy+ discrete gpu. But its better than the sandy on-die gpu and thats exactly what that video says.

A person going for a high performance laptop say at a budget of 50-60k will stick with sandybridge+ discrete gpu from nvidia or amd which will blow llano away in performance.

But llano will dominate in 30-40k market if priced right and is better than sandybridge notebooks without discrete gpu and gives better multimedia performance.


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## rajan1311 (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

I agree with you vick, so lets see :

~40k lappy - Llano
~60k lappy - SB+Discrete 

right?

But most of us indians mainly buy laptops of sub 45~50k, dont see TDF, but people in general.... 

Oh btw, when are SB laptops coming to india? friend needs a high end laptop ...


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## vickybat (Mar 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ Agreed again and they can definitely choose llano for better graphics.

But i guess you can still find sandy+discrete laptops in the 50-60k price point. They have a strong cpu line up.

Llano even has the potential to draw 30k laptop buyers and definitely can offer something at that price point.

*offtopic-* buddy what happened to your pc?


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## coderunknown (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



utkarsh009 said:


> @everybody: you know guys! i feel amd llano is much better than that i7 sandy bridge. i mean why spend extra on a lappy with *discrete graphics card i its going to become obsolete in the same time* and doesnt even perform * much better *.



can AMD Llano beat the intel spec lappy coupled with 2 GTX560M? i think you got the point i want to highlight.



vickybat said:


> LLano's are aimed for entry level to lower midrange notebooks. They are well short of sandybridge cpu's as far as pure number crunching performance goes.



ezxkatly. what AMD proved from the slides is, it have made AMD quadcore A8 as powerful as an Phenom II X6 (rough idea) & can beat a SB when it comes to multithreading (X6's strength) but what if someone wants to run only 1 game at a time without any bg task? than?

for now its nothing but an AMD trailer. only time will tell if the movie will become a hit, super hit or the exact opposite. but depends on the manufacturers too.



thetechfreak said:


> whatever it is, no one beats AMD in value!



gamers are always gamers. what they need is pure performance. always. they find value in an item if its able to perform according to their needs, even if it cost 100k. now for those, APU mayn't be the best choice & neither will they game on the IGP.



rajan1311 said:


> The whole point in integration of the CPU and GPU on to one die was to reduce costs and increase performance, I feel, these Llano give a much much better balance at the general public's sweet spot which is around 35k-45k. What say?



yes, 35-40k will hit the sweet spot. a good balance between power & graphics performance. but the sad part is, from what i have seen manufacturers have done with Zacate in some cases (E350 in a 15.6"). makes me think AMD's success is more based on OEM's hand rather than their own APU performance. if Sony, Dell, Acer, Asus & HP releases some 14" with light config but 4-5hrs battery life and price the whole thing at 30-32k, AMD will be back into the laptop game with a bang. also powerful gaming machines should be released & advertised well. 

but what manufacturers *shouldn't do* is launch lappy with cheap quality or cheap looking chassis & fit them in a 15.6" screen & no GPU or a lowend GPU. this will spoil the party for AMD & for the OEM themselves. this have seen with AMD's current lineup & anandtech have reviewed some laptops (Phenom II based) that just can't get the recommendation cap even with a super low pricetag mainly cause they look & feel cheap.



rajan1311 said:


> I would never buy a laptop if that was my need



powerful or powersaver, a desktop will always win the enthusiast's heart. well until that techie turns out to be a girl.



vickybat said:


> But i disagree with people comparing it with sandybridge cpu's. A llano apu can no way beat a sandy+ discrete gpu. But its better than the sandy on-die gpu and thats exactly what that video says.



true. & lastly i don't want to see any of these laptops ship with a lowend card.



vickybat said:


> A person going for a high performance laptop say at a budget of 50-60k will stick with sandybridge+ discrete gpu from nvidia or amd which will blow llano away in performance.



AMD llano may win more business laptop designs. specially those aimed at non-gaming needs. say with Quadro or FirePro GPUs. they'll love its multithreaded performance & battery life.



rajan1311 said:


> But most of us indians mainly buy laptops of sub 45~50k, dont see TDF, but people in general....



and they always say "i want Intel only & Nvidia 1Gb grafix card". i hope they know what they are talking about.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

If a 5650m = llano graphics in performance and if these are around 40k, then my dear friends what will be the fun of spending 60k above on sandy i7s. U expect them to be paired with a 460m or 560m.? Those price range notebooks have nothing but out of these mostly -
GT435M, GT350M, GT335M. (and the funny thing is these are paired with 3d gogles sometimes). Some notebooks of this price range have oldies like GTS250M. 
And to tell u all 5650m is equal to a 435 and better than rest approx.

Talk mainly of indian consumers who hardly spend 100k on desktops let alone lappys. 

And those which have good ones like 460m cost 120k.  Whats this? U think its feasible to spend on them.? When u can get a 580gtx pc at that price which will blow them away.!
And thats why i feel these costly laps are show off for ladies!


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## utkarsh009 (Mar 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

the point here is that who needs a lappy for playing crysis at maximum settings? or those games which have a very high requirement. a true gamer always has a desktop which can be customized to improve gaming performance. tell me, will you ever opt to buy alienware m15x for 180k or will you buy a desktop? you can always play casual games on llano and do multitasking with ease * at a very cheap price *. you get the correct balance with llano. and mobility of a laptop is lost if it doesnt have a good battery life. this is why most people also look at battery life when they buy a lappy!!!!!!


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## vickybat (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> If a 5650m = llano graphics in performance and if these are around 40k, then my dear friends what will be the fun of spending 60k above on sandy i7s. U expect them to be paired with a 460m or 560m.? Those price range notebooks have nothing but out of these mostly -
> GT435M, GT350M, GT335M. (and the funny thing is these are paired with 3d gogles sometimes). Some notebooks of this price range have oldies like GTS250M.
> And to tell u all 5650m is equal to a 435 and better than rest approx.
> 
> ...



Good point jas. But i think the newer sandybridge laptops will come with a revised lineup of gpu's. Nvidia 5 series and amd 6 series are the favorites to be paired alongside a sandy. Especially mobile gpu's like 6670m and above will beat a 5650m class gpu out of the water when paired with sandybridge.

Now a combination of this is very powerful and can be considered as a desktop replacement and if priced at 50-60k or finds its place  lets say in dell's XPS lineup, then it will be one heck of a seller.

Talking about pricing of llano, i think it won't come cheap ( just a speculation) and i came with this conclusion after seeing the prices of bobcat based e350 barebones which is touching almost 9k. So aggresive pricing will decide the fate of Llano or else most users will blindly jump the intel bandwagon and i seriously think the jump will be worth if sandy will be paired with a discrete mobile gpu.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

actually vickybat there is only 6650m. no 6670m. and 6650m also almost same as 5650m 
so until and unless some sandy notebooks are paired with GT540 or even better mobility 57** or 67**m  at 60k~ i dont think spending more is required *if* llano is 40k. 

but they can never be desktop replacements as even a GT240 is faster than those above mentioned.

but i found 2 very good deals - 
Msi GX660 Gaming laptop
Msi GX 640 Gaming Laptop


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## vickybat (Mar 8, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*

^^ Wow those are good deals. Imagine a sandybridge cpu replacing the older arrandale cpu's in the same pricepoint. The deal will get sweeter.


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## saswat23 (Mar 19, 2011)

*AMD's Llano Could Heat up Chip War With Intel*

The chip war will heat up as Advanced Micro Devices prepares PC processors to rival Intel's Sandy Bridge chips, which have already
started appearing in laptops,
analysts said this week.
Intel's new Core i3, i5 and i7 chips are now available in consumer laptops such as Dell's Inspiron R-
series models, which were introduced on Thursday and priced starting at US$499.
AMD, meanwhile, plans to release new A- series chips, which are code-named Llano, for consumer laptops and desktops in the second quarter.
The A-series processors could intensify the chip battle between Intel and AMD as consumers evaluate laptops based on price
and performance. The Intel and AMD chips both combine a CPU and graphics processor inside a single chip, but have unique strengths, analysts said.
Intel's Sandy Bridge chips are generally considered to provide better CPU performance and have a capable graphics processor, but PCs with AMD's Llano are thought to better handle graphics-intensive tasks.
Laptops with A-series chips could be priced above $499, higher than laptops and netbooks carrying AMD's low-end E-Series and C-Series chips, which started shipping earlier this year, an AMD spokeswoman said. 
But the pricing of laptops will ultimately depend on PC makers, thespokeswoman added.
The A-series chips will include between two and four cores, according to the company's road map.
Beyond price, laptop selection will likely depend on the type of PC a user is looking for, said Nathan Brookwood, principal analyst at Insight 64. If a buyer needs to
run programs that stress CPUs they may prefer laptops with Sandy Bridge, which has a CPU core that is faster and more
advanced than the CPU in AMD's Llano, which is based on an architecture that is six to seven years old.
"That's not even up for debate,"
Brookwood said.
Intel's new Core i3, i5 and i7 chips can render high-definition video and are good for mainstream gaming, Brookwood said.
Analysts said that Intel has looked beyond the graphics processor, implementing instruction sets to process 3D graphics and accelerators in the integrated chips to quickly decode and encode video.
But AMD's Llano will have a better graphics engine and offer a superior movie playback and gaming experience, Brookwood said.
Llano's integrated graphics processor supports DirectX 11, which is a set of tools that help generate more realistic images when playing games on PCs running Windows 7. Most of the recent high-end games released support DirectX 11, Brookwood said. 
Intel's Sandy Bridge chips support a version of DirectX 10, which puts
it almost a generation behind AMD.
AMD's superior graphics capabilities could also give it a price advantage, Brookwood
said. PCs based on Intel's Sandy Bridge chips may require a dedicated graphics card to handle high-end graphics, which
could increase the price of laptops.
But few users need high-end graphics, and the consumer market is trending to lower-
end laptops where price matters more and graphics matter less, said Dean McCarron, principal analyst at Mercury Research.
"If you want to compare CPU versus GPU performance ... that depends on the price you are willing to pay," McCarron said.
McCarron said he expects AMD to use Llano's powerful graphics core as a means to gain market share from Intel, as opposed to changing its pricing model. AMD typically has a price advantage over Intel, with laptops selling for comparably lower prices.
AMD lost market share to Intel in the fourth quarter last year, according to an IDC study released in February. Intel had an 80.8
percent processor market share, compared to 80.5 percent in the fourth quarter of 2009. AMD's market share was 18.9 percent, declining from a 19.5 percent
share the previous year.
Graphics chips are being increasingly used in high-performance systems for parallel
execution of some scientific, math and video applications. But many programs for desktop operating systems like Windows have been written for processing on multicore CPUs.
Intel may be "overweight" on CPUs, but AMD is making a bigger bet on graphics as computing becomes more visual, said Godfrey Cheng, director of product marketing at AMD's client technology unit.
A lot of the Web browser processing goes through a CPU, but the latest versions of Microsoft's Internet Explorer, Google's Chrome and Mozilla's Firefox offload tasks such as Internet video to the graphics
processor.
AMD is also providing tools for
programmers to write applications for execution on graphics processors, Cheng said. AMD's graphics processors also
support OpenCL, a programming standard for parallel execution of tasks across multicore CPUs and GPUs.

But graphics processors are also known to
be power-hungry, which could hurt laptop
battery life. To tackle the issue, AMD has
added some power-saving features such as
power gating and the ability to shut down
blocks of the graphics processor.
"We're giving [consumers] more power,
capability to process videos," Cheng said.
Intel spokesman Dave Salvator said that
rather than talking CPU versus GPU, it is
more useful to look at what people do
regularly with PCs. Sandy Bridge chips are
good for mainstream gaming, and have
advanced power-saving and security
features.
"If you're an enthusiast gamer, then Intel
Core i7 with a high-end discrete 3D card is
the right solution for high-end gaming,"
Salvator said.
AMD may have an aging CPU in Llano, but a
price advantage and a better graphics
processor could help it compete with Intel's
Sandy Bridge, Mercury's McCarron said. AMD
will provide a much-needed upgrade to the
CPU to the new Bulldozer core next year,
but consumers may not wait.
"Upgrade when you feel the need to
upgrade," McCarron said. "If you wait for
[new] technology, you'll be waiting
continuously."


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## SlashDK (Mar 19, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



vickybat said:


> Talking about pricing of llano, i think it won't come cheap ( just a speculation) and i came with this conclusion after seeing the prices of bobcat based e350 barebones which is touching almost 9k. So aggresive pricing will decide the fate of Llano or else most users will blindly jump the intel bandwagon and i seriously think the jump will be worth if sandy will be paired with a discrete mobile gpu.



I believe 9k is the pricing only in India. As more manufacturers bring e350 to Indian market, it is bound to get cheaper. In the US it costs $100-125.


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## ico (Mar 20, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

These low-TDP boards are always expensive. Dual Core Intel Atom also retails around the same price.

Llano will be cheap and will use Socket FM1. Not AM3+.


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## vickybat (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Ok guys tell me which deal will be sweeter. Upcoming llano based notebooks @ 40k or sandybridge notebooks with discrete gpu @ 38k?????

Lenovo has recently launched the Z570 notebook @ 38k

*It has i3 2310m, 4gigs ram ddr3, 640gb hdd, Nvidia geforce 525m 1gb with a 6cell battery as default. The non gpu model is 29k.*

Now tell me if the upcoming llano can beat this?


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## ico (Mar 27, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Can't really comment on an unreleased product. But I expect Llano to have better battery life than that.


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## GeekyBoy (Mar 29, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

^^Yes, I agree too

By the way,I personally feel, that for the time being, AMD is using Llano as a backup, in case Bulldozer is not received too well by consumers. Even though that possibility seems remote, AMD probably does not want to take chances.

The following facts reinforce my belief:

1. *Llano is based on the older Stars microarchitecture*(Although AMD could have easily manufactured it using Bulldozer microarchitecture, but didnt!)
So if bulldozer flops, AMD can still use its older(but tried and tested) microarch, loaded with great graphics to woo consumers. 

2.*Llano is to be manufactured using bulldozer from 2012, thus replacing Stars.*
AMD probably wants feedback from consumers before completely transforming its entire product line to Bulldozer.
So Llano is helping out AMD in this case too!


What do you say guys?


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## kamal_saran (Apr 1, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

well said geekyboy


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## ico (Apr 5, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



			
				AMD said:
			
		

> Today’s news is strong enough on its own that simple works in this case. The product itself is the headline: Production units of AMD’s 32 nanometer quad-core “Llano” A-Series Accelerated Processor Units (APU) with discrete-level graphics are now shipping.



"Llano" APU is Shipping | Fusion


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## kamal_saran (Apr 5, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Which one is better to choose llano or bulldozer.


----------



## ico (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Llano if you are low on budget. Bulldozer if you are high on budget.


----------



## saswat23 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

In terms of pricing how can this be explained.


----------



## ico (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



saswat23 said:


> In terms of pricing how can this be explained.


Only after they get launched.



ico said:


> Initial Desktop AMD "Llano" Lineup Will Include Five APUs - Documents - X-bit labs
> 
> *i51.tinypic.com/jhy3p3.png


----------



## mavihs (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Llano APU already shipping


----------



## Joker (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



ico said:


> "Llano" APU is Shipping | Fusion





mavihs said:


> Llano APU already shipping



and this marks the end of sandy bridge core i3-2100. amd Llano will have a gfx card as fast has HD 5670 built-in along with athlon ii X4 core.


----------



## Krow (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Any news on pricing?


----------



## mavihs (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

its only for OEM now!!!!


----------



## utkarsh009 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



Joker said:


> and this marks the end of sandy bridge core i3-2100. amd Llano will have a gfx card as fast has HD 5670 built-in along with athlon ii X4 core.



i......likesss it. but now i regret why i bought athlon ii x4. its not even 1 month old.


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

^no need to regret. tech goes on advancing. you get whats best in your budget at the time of your purchase. who has seen future?


----------



## Cilus (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Athlon II X4 is a very good processor and there is no point to regret your decision. Llano is not yet launched and not at all tested. Even if it will be launched in very near future, the pricing in India will not be cheaper.
So enjoy.


----------



## utkarsh009 (Apr 6, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

yah ok! but the electricity bill has increased by 0.3k, that may be because i play games for 3 continuous hours. or may be because of psu efficiency. going to put corsair vx450 along with dell st2220l maybe this month.


----------



## coderunknown (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

^^ cause of local PSU. add a highend GPU & it'll blow away those entry level Llano parts.


----------



## kamal_saran (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

if we can say price of quad core llano = phenom x4 955. Then which will be better.


----------



## coderunknown (Apr 7, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

^^ definitely Llano. mainly cause of new architecture & IGP thats as fast as entrylevel card. but if you pair a fast GPU with both of these, Phenom II X4 will loose but maybe by a small margin. so it doesn't makes a last gen processor a bad buy which is brought 3-5months ago (at time of launching of Llano).


----------



## Gaurav Bhattacharjee (Apr 26, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

*[YouTube] AMD Llano demo (leaked) - Llano vs Sandy Bridge [AMD wins, CPU & GPU!]]*

[YOUTUBE]1YfRh1FBkI4[/YOUTUBE]

Notice that one of the apps running in the video is HyperPi, a very CPU-intensive app... and AMD APPEARS TO BE AHEAD by some 1m digits. If I am seeing this right and am not in any way being fooled, *AMD's Llano, which is only tweaked Phenom II architecture, is beating Intel Sandy Bridge with nearly half the clockspeed and half the thread count. And in an app that AMD normally loses in*.

That's right, the Phenom II architecture scaled down to 32nm (with no L3 cache) at half the speed of Intel's newest SB architecture, and with half the amount of threads as well, is *WINNING*.

The GPU of course wins, it's 5670-class power vs 5450-class power as previously known.

If this is good, wait till Bulldozer, that's going to win even more.


----------



## ico (Apr 26, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

lol, that seems like AMD propaganda.


----------



## Cilus (Apr 26, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Guys, another thing amout AMD's APU...what I was hoping for long.

In all the current generation fusion units where CPU and GPU die are integrated into a single die, the GPU won't work if an external GPU is plugged...at least not simultaneously.

But in Llano, at least for some of the models, the APU can assist the AMD 6000 series GPU in processing.

Here is the quote from wikipedia



> Select models will support TurboCore technology along with a hybrid graphics technology that will allow the GPUs of select A-series APUs to assist a discrete graphics card in graphics processing, when paired with a Northern Islands (Radeon HD 6000 series) discrete graphics card. This is similar to the current Hybrid CrossFireX technology that is available in the select AMD 700 and 800 series chipsets.


----------



## coderunknown (Apr 26, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

it'll be better if they allow something like Discrete GPU - integrated GPU switching that can make the external GPU to clock down to idle as completely turning off isn't an option i guess.

or say when there is video encoding going on, switch to integrated GPU & when gaming or heavy task, switch to external GPU.


----------



## Joker (May 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

*i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/AMD-Llano-On-Die-GPU-Gets-Benchmarked-Deliver-Staggering-Performance-3.jpg


----------



## coderunknown (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

a bit about the resolution would have been more helpful still this is enough. everyone should keep an eye on the A4. it should replace the Athlon II X4s.


----------



## ico (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

I have no doubt that these will be a hit with OEMs and ~25k configs.


----------



## baccilus (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



ico said:


> I have no doubt that these will be a hit with OEMs and ~25k configs.



They will surely be a hit in other parts of the world. You can't say the same for India. Everyone is fixated upon Intel here.


----------



## utkarsh009 (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



baccilus said:


> They will surely be a hit in other parts of the world. You can't say the same for India. Everyone is fixated upon Intel here.



this is Really very very bad. amd should advertise their products even more. even the computer manufacturers only advertise their products which have latest Intel processors


----------



## ssengupta (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



Joker said:


> *i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/AMD-Llano-On-Die-GPU-Gets-Benchmarked-Deliver-Staggering-Performance-3.jpg




i2300K


----------



## vaibhav23 (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



ssengupta said:


> i2300K


it is written i5 2300k


----------



## coderunknown (May 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

maybe Intel will launch that chip & not up for retail.


----------



## ssk_the_gr8 (May 16, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

According to Donanimhaber, AMD’s top mobile processor for 2011 will be the Fusion A8-3530MX, a 32nm quad-core with a base clock of 1.9GHz. With Turbo, the new processor can hit 2.6GHz and it features HD 6620G graphics. At 444MHz the graphics core might not seem very fast, considering that the HD 6310 used in Brazos processors runs at 500MHz, it is worth noting that the 6620G packs 400 shaders, while the 6310 has just 80.

The A8-3530MX will use AMD’s new FS1 package and its TDP is 45W, which is pretty much the norm for high-end mobile processors. The new processor will support DDR3 up to 1600MHz and it will be available with A60M and A70M chipsets, which are very similar, but the latter offers USB 3.0 connectivity.



More mobile Llano specs leaked


----------



## vickybat (May 17, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

^^looks good on paper but the pricing will be a huge decider.Besides, it also has to oust a similarly priced and spec based sandybridge notebooks.

Lets say you can get a sandybridge notebook with an i3 2310 or i5 2410 processor and dedicated nvidia gt 540 graphics @ 30-45k pricerange. If llano can best this in performance, then it will be a hit.


----------



## ssk_the_gr8 (May 17, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

its not just abt performance with llano , its also abt being power efficient which it will definitely be compared to a discrete gfx card


----------



## Joker (May 18, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



ssk_the_gr8 said:


> its not just abt performance with llano , its also abt being power efficient which it will definitely be compared to a discrete gfx card


yes. battery life is a huge deciding factor in laptops. and discrete gfx = more power consumption.


----------



## vickybat (May 18, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



ssk_the_gr8 said:


> its not just abt performance with llano , its also abt being power efficient which it will definitely be compared to a discrete gfx card



True but discrete graphics are starting to become more and more power efficient with the advent of newer architectures and smaller fabrication. Lets wait & see how much battery life llano provides as compared to the above sandybridge notebooks i mentioned.

I recon the difference won't be significant and therefore performance and pricing will be the decider.


----------



## Joker (May 18, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

u see llano is 32nm SOI.  both amd and nvidia discrete gfx are at 40nm at the moment. architecturally, llano has hd 6000 series gfx.


----------



## Joker (May 25, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

*AMD Llano A6-3400M, A4-3300M and E2-3000M APUs Pictured - Softpedia*


----------



## Joker (May 29, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

*[H]ard|OCP - Leaked AMD Fusion Strategy Guide*


----------



## ico (Jun 9, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

AMD Llano mobile to launch on 14th of June


----------



## Joker (Jun 11, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

*AMD: Llano Is An Intel Shocker*

*APU smashed new IGP world records with Gigabyte A75M-UD2H ( 3Dvantage P6160 igp )*

agreeing with a comment... "No more shi*tty intel HD2000/3000, nvidia GT220/420/430, that HD6555 oblitarates them all."


----------



## coderunknown (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

i hope the intel fanboys agree to it & these low on budget go for performance parts rather than jumping for the Intel stickers.

and this was expected. they are integrating lowend graphics GPU straight into the processor die. won't be surprised if ivy bridge fall short of that mark.


----------



## ico (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*



Joker said:


> *APU smashed new IGP world records with Gigabyte A75M-UD2H ( 3Dvantage P6160 igp )*


This is how a real leak looks like.  and I'm pretty sure that guy won't get samples anymore. lol.


----------



## vickybat (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Wow thats terrific. Now its not mandatory to jump in for a discrete card rightaway. One can actually enjoy the apu performance and go for a a discrete gpu when either budget permits or wait for a good enough solution to arrive that is worthy of an upgrade.

Now budget buyers can enjoy seamless graphics and gaming wich was previously impossible.I've even heard that the on-die gpu can also assist the cpu in performing x86 operations ( not sure) & will also enable a hybrid crossfire with the dedicated gpu plugged in the pci-e.

*@ Sam*

Yes even ivybridge gpu may fall short of this kind of performance unless some drastic changes are made to the underlying gpu architecture.

*WELL DONE AMD*


----------



## Cilus (Jun 12, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano discussion*

Another thing is that unlike Intel, integrated GPU in Llano can wok on Hybrid Crossfire Mode when dedicated card of roughly same performance level has been plugged. It may be a HD6570, HD6670, HD5670 or HD6570. So adding just a entry level GPU like HD 6670 or HD5670, significant performance boost can be achieved due to Hybrid Crossfire.
This is possible since the GPU is integrated with the CPU with internal communication channel as a heterogeneous core itself whereas Intel use the PCI Express Bus to communicate with IGP.


----------



## ico (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

*2011 AMD Notebook Platform*

These are coming out tomorrow as per my calculations. 

*Update @ today:*

Reviews of the mobile platform are out.

Like expected, A8-3500M falls behind in the CPU front. And also like expected, wins at gaming and wins at battery life.



Spoiler



*media.bestofmicro.com/M/K/296300/original/Power%20-%203DMark.png


i5-2520QM has ~2x power consumption at load compared to A8-3500M.

add a discrete graphic card to Intel Core i5-2520M, expect more performance on the cost of worse battery life.

Dual Graphics "crossfire" needs driver fixing though. Would be done by the time notebooks start shipping.


----------



## utkarsh009 (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

^wow really cooooooool!


----------



## ico (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

Here's the full review: *The AMD A8-3500M APU Review: Llano Is Unleashed - AMD’s Gambit*

They uploaded the review on the Desktop site too for 5 minutes, but then removed it. Still Under NDA, I guess.  Wait for 9:30am.


----------



## Joker (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

nice...really impressed with battery performance. major win for 28-40k notebooks. u might say cpu performance is short, but gaming & great battery life makes up for it. when u buy a laptop, battery life is a major cocnern.

amd has lined up 3 different architectures this year: brazos, llano and bulldozer. i hope bulldozer is competitive.


----------



## ico (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

Here is the Desktop preview: *AnandTech - The Llano Desktop Preview: AMD A8-3850 CPU & GPU Performance*

Pretty much an Athlon II X4 645/Core i3-2100 like the review said. And great IGP performance.


----------



## coderunknown (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

performance isn't anything to talk about, even on 32nm. graphics performance is good. now only thing left is sensible pricing & not the overpriced rate of Brazos.

but really surprised that even after die shrink & increased (double) L2 cache the performance in the cpu front is same as 45nm K10s.


----------



## ico (Jun 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

^^ comparing with their old mobile Phenom II X2 N660, there is an improvement. Real CPU improvement will be when they launch Bulldozer + Radeon fusion i.e. Trinity.

At the end of the day, I'll sum this up like this:

Core i5-2520M humiliates A8-3500M in CPU performance. And A8-3500M humiliates Core i5-2520M IGP performance + wins bigtime in battery/power consumption when you are actually gaming.

If they are going to put these stickers and market these extensively, they will sell. No doubt.
*i.imgur.com/TPv2X.jpg


----------



## vickybat (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

Considering pure cpu performance, its no match for current sandybridge cpu's. A quad core is often beaten by sandybridge dual core i3 2100.

So its going to be hit with a select set of customers who don't want anything more than the igp and currently that set is pretty high in india.

So amd might be all set in achieving some milestones in terms of processor sales.

This is strictly speaking in a desktop context. But on laptops, we have to see how much extra battery life it actually delivers. I will be interested if these can actually beat an i3 2310 + radeon 6470m combo in terms of pure performance and deliver significant battery life.. Dell is currently providing its inspiron line @ 36k all.


Anyway guys here is the review:

*Source- tomshardware*

Okay guys i have summed up quite a few things about llano which i like to share :

Frankly speaking, in terms of processor technology (fabrication, performance per watt,  & pure number crunching performance), amd is almost a generation behind intel. The core i3 2100 beating a phenom 2 955 be in almost all benchmarks is a testament to this fact.
Amd themseves said that its almost impossible to beat intel in a fabrication point of view. So they decided to use their strength which incidently was intel's weakness & planned to capitalize on that. Out comes *llano* amd's newest kid which has promised a lot in terms of overall performance with some exceptional power mangement. So what is llano?

*img690.imageshack.us/img690/4844/apuandfusioncontrollerh.jpg

Llano is basically consists of 2-4 x86 cores + Graphics shader cores + Northbridge + FCH( fusion control hub a.k.a southbridge) all packed in one die. Amd calls this FUSION.
Now lets discuss the individual elements:

*Cpu side:*

*img59.imageshack.us/img59/5940/llanocpudieblocks.jpg

Basically llano's x86 cores are based on amd's previous k10 architecure employed in its phenom 2 and athlon 2 cpu's. Architecturally, they are same but llano cores have a 32nm fabrication process. Not only this but the l3 cache has been completely stripped down and l2 cache is doubled to 4mb. Now each core gets a dedicated 1mb l2 cache. 

Amd claims that the cores give 6% more performance than the earlier ones owing to larger cache and an efficient *hardware prefetcher*. The prefetcher actually loads intructions into the processor cache for computation. AMD enhanced the prefetcher intelligence with Instruction Pointer (IP)-based prefetching. IP understands the instructions accessing the memory and finds a specific pattern and load the instructions in the cache accordingly. The buffer sizes are also made larger.

All these things give an overall 6% IPC (instruction per clock) performance to llano's computational abilities over its predecessors. 

*Gpu side:*

*img641.imageshack.us/img641/8383/llanofusiona8kh29622513.jpg

The gpu part is based on  discrete class radeon 5570 (redwood) following the vliw5 architecture. Its codenamed SUMO and though its similar to redwood, has fewer displayports and uvd3 instead of uvd2. But amd has a small trick up its sleeve which they call *dual graphics*. 

This enables the on-die sumo gpu to for a bond with another discrete level radeon gpu and work in tandem. Its simply a crossfire but the fact is there need not be similarities in the gpu's architecture. Disimilar gpu's can also work together. For eg. a 6620g (apu) + 6630m (discrete gpu) will form 6690G2 (dual graphics). The llano apu' can also handle opencl codes which the traditional sandybridge cpu's cannot process on their own and needs a discrete gpu. But in a real world performance pov, the dual mode is actually having a performance drop and will be rectified in future driver releases. Another worth mentioning is that dual graphics mode work better in dx10 and dx11 mode only.

*Apu:*

There's something that differs llano from sandybridge cpu's and prevents them to be called a s FUSION parts. They are internal communication methods employed within llano.

There are five main components of Llano that have to communicate with each other: the CPU complex, the GPU complex, the northbridge, the traditional I/O block, and the DDR memory I/O block. 

*img684.imageshack.us/img684/3264/llanonorthbridgeplumbin.jpg

Now we've seen cpu- northbridge interconnect before and its no different here. What's the difference here then?

That is two all new buses that are present between gpu - northbridge and cpu. The first one is called as *RADEON BUS* which allows the gpu to have full access and bandwidth to system memory. It kind of provides a priority access for high bandwidth operations.

Second one is the most important and is responsible for this chip to be termed fusion. Its the *FCL ( fusion compute link)* which allows the gpu to access the cpu cache minimizing bottlenecks. Previously, this communication was made possible using pci-e links. This also lends a big hand towards power efficiency.

Turbo core also finds its implementation here but slightly differs here than previous iterations because of the extra gpu here. Amd incorporated a hw module here called the APM (advanced power management). This consists of a p-state and a p-state manager.When its finds that there's more headroom, the state changes to p-boost and the clock speeds are incremented. But the gpu's clocks cannot be incremented but can only be decremented depending on the chips tdp levels.

*Amd steady video*

Here's an interesting result of amd's APP ( accelerated parallel processing) initiative and can be achieved using llano. Let's say you'sre shooting a marriage ceremony with a handycam. Now the human arm is prone to shakes and is never steady. This results in a shaky video. Now amd's steady video fixes all that and makes the resulting video completely steady for a better viewing experience. The hardware has to track video vectors and shakes, it has to compensate for the frequency of camera movement, and it has to add the missing pixels when the camera shakes off of the screen. The result is worlds better than poor source material. Now that is an innovation and amd's step towards gpgpu computing.

*Performance:*

Summing up the performance, the llano chip provides almost 56% more performance than a sandybridge i5 2520m with hd 3000 graphics in gpu intensive games. But with cpu intensive titles like dragon age origins, llano and sandy are neck and neck and we can owe this to llano's much weaker cpu. 

In pure number crunching performance, again intel's sandybridge chips crush llano in almost all synthetic tests. Same can be said on productivity tests like winrar , 7zip etc. 

Tom's hardware content creation tests also gave the same results with the entire adobe suite, blender and cinebench. Although llano was a bit better in the cinebench test which uses the gpu to show smooth viewport fps.

Even in media encoding tasks, sandybridge dual cores are well ahead. Remember that these are purely cpu intensive and intel even beats llano without using quicksync.

Though llano employs app ( accelerated parallel processing) to speed up computation in video encoding tasks by using its internal shader cores, its no match for intel's cpu based encoding and decoding. Turning quicksync on, turns up the heat and simply blows everything out of the water.

When it comes to content viewing, llano score more over sandybridge's igp when watching an hd movie. We can owe that to llano's superior gpu core. Though intel handle noise and skin tones quite nicely, it was poor in 2:2 Film Resolution cadence support, substandard contrast enhancement, and terrible chroma up-sampling and scaling performance.

So enabling video filters are better in llano than on sandybridge's igp. But a sandybridge + discrete gpu will do everything easily in the expense of battery performance.

Coming down to power, llano is a winner. A llano apu based laptop gave almost an hour extra backup than a sandybridge based laptop having intel hd graphics only. Now this is a big plus in the laptop community.

Ultimately it comes down to usage patterns to pick one. LLano shows strong gpu performance and sandybridge shows strong cpu performance. Ofcourse we know sandybridge when paired with a discrete gpu turns things around but sacrifices on power and battery. So llano can attributed with a decently specced system capable of giving a balanced performance with some exceptional battery performance. The only thing its lacking now is the cpu side performance but expect bulldozer based trinity cores to fix them.

In the end, fusion is the future of computing , a breakthrough technology and the start of a whole new era in the world of microprocessors.

In other words, its just the beginning.


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

new to the forum guys.
plz be easy on me..........


WELL put Vicki bat,

though amd lacks in cpu performa it can well compensate it with the 400 core gpu, i presume they've named it 6620 this time with the A8. it is quite obvious that amd has shown a par performance with intel 2500 n 2300 based processors. power is n added improvement,u'd even have to consider the 4 core dimensions...coz application utilizng all the cores wuld run better on the llano.

i'd like some processors hitting the market soon. i dont think the intel's mkt share is going to be affected in anyway though.


----------



## ico (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

Surely it is much faster than 56% if you crank up the settings and resolution. Not to mention DX 11 support over Intel HD 3000. For those who want to only game with exceptional battery life, this is the best thing which has happened all these years. i7-2630QM + GT 540M = 55k+. A8-3500M = (assuming 35k)



Spoiler



*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4444/38918.png (CPU intensive)

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4444/38917.png

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4444/38923.png

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4444/38930.png

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4444/38926.png



But the point is, the APU is bandwidth starved if we talk about memory.

In all fairness, I have no idea why Anandtech used DDR3 1333Mhz RAM overclocked to 1866Mh in their desktop preview. Should have used 1866Mhz RAM straightaway. The higher the memory is clocked, the faster APU's IGP performs.


----------



## Joker (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

*AMD Llano Fusion - AMD's Llano Fusion - A Series APUs | [H]ard|OCP*


----------



## vickybat (Jun 15, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

^^ Impressive review. Tremendous gpu performance & will be the platform of choice in the 35-40k mark.

The dual card mode is fantastic and further driver optimizations will lead to much better performance in future.


----------



## comp@ddict (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

The thing is, all these benchmarks and encoding, a VERY TINY percentage of people actually give a crap about these, all they care is price, portability and battery life.

And this llano I feel will give perfectly. Even 11-14 year olds, they'll play Counter Strike or at the most NFS(where intel will fail them most probably), and for them, Llano is exceptionally good, almost like god's gift.


----------



## ssk_the_gr8 (Jun 19, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

that is exactly what i wanted to say comp@ddict. Now for once amd has to strike proper deals with oems so that they advertise their product instead of intel's


----------



## Machinehead (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*



comp@ddict said:


> The thing is, all these benchmarks and encoding, a VERY TINY percentage of people actually give a crap about these, all they care is price, portability and battery life.
> 
> And this llano I feel will give perfectly. Even 11-14 year olds, they'll play Counter Strike or at the most NFS(where intel will fail them most probably), and for them, Llano is exceptionally good, almost like god's gift.




egggggzactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

coz if i were an average college kid, i'd have made my worth with a llano based pc. To hell with all the numbers..


----------



## coderunknown (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*



comp@ddict said:


> The thing is, all these benchmarks and encoding, a VERY TINY percentage of people actually give a crap about these, all they care is price, portability and battery life.
> 
> And this llano I feel will give perfectly. Even 11-14 year olds, they'll play Counter Strike or at the most NFS(where intel will fail them most probably), and for them, Llano is exceptionally good, almost like god's gift.



+1. Llano based laptops will offer GPU performance close/equal to the entrylevel mobile GPUs. so if they skip those GPU, we may have some entrylevel gaming laptop at 30k but then only the A8's have iGPU that can match discrete cards. 

wondering if we'll see those "Powered by AMD Fusion" ads in TV anytime soon


----------



## comp@ddict (Jun 20, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*



> "Powered by AMD Fusion" ads in TV anytime soon



The FUTURE IS FUSION 

I'm gonna be getting a laptop, i'm just delaying it for Llano.


----------



## kamal_saran (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

hey guys , found this while surfing. . This article gives us the answer to guestion that "will the 1866mhz ram will give the enough bandwidth to operate cpu and gpu at one time. ". .A llook at the Llano architecture | SemiAccurate


----------



## comp@ddict (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

^^ it doesn't actually. Under 50-50 load, each CPU and GPU should get entitled 10GB bandwidth only. Now compare that to the HD5670.


----------



## rajan1311 (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

did you guys see the GPU performance gains when memory is OCed? Pretty significant...any chance of seeing onboard GDDR5 memory ?


----------



## comp@ddict (Jun 21, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*



> did you guys see the GPU performance gains when memory is OCed? Pretty significant...any chance of seeing onboard GDDR5 memory ?



the way AMD has designed the APU doesn't allow for SIDEPORT memory(big bummer!)

And the only RAM is DDR3 here, no GDDR5 option


----------



## rajan1311 (Jun 23, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

So lets hope we get some cheap DDR3 2200MHz RAMs...


----------



## ssk_the_gr8 (Jun 23, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*



comp@ddict said:


> the way AMD has designed the APU doesn't allow for SIDEPORT memory(big bummer!)
> 
> And the only RAM is DDR3 here, no GDDR5 option



integrating sideport memory in the small cpu/apu would be quite difficult i believe


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## Skud (Jun 27, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano "fusion" discussion*

So the APUs would be launching on 30th June:- 


Llano motherboards available now, APUs on 30 June 2011


And check the mobos here:-

Several Llano boards listed and priced in EU

Asus' F1A75-M Pro shows up

MSI's A75MA-G55 detailed


Four RAM slots and Crossfire support along with all the other goodies in a mATX package - this is gonna be a killer platform, hope they will allow for upgrade to trinity and beyond.


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## comp@ddict (Jul 5, 2011)

*Re: AMD Llano (desktop) discussion*

Finally, something on LAPTOPS:

Fully customisable HP Llano Laptops. Now, COME TO INDIA BABY!

HP Home & Home Office Store - We're sorry!



ssk_the_gr8 said:


> integrating sideport memory in the small cpu/apu would be quite difficult i believe



it isn't possible with this gen, but I believe, if some extra connections lanes can be drawn from the APU for a direct say 128-bit (2x64bit) access to sideport memory(512MB GDDR5 what say?), the GPU portion would benefit hell loads with it.


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## coderunknown (Jul 5, 2011)

they could have gives some kind of electronic auto-switch thing. when GPU isn't used, let the APU use sideport memory. when you insert a GPU, the lanes are gives to the GPU & so access to sideport is cut off.

also a small amount of fast ram won't alter the motherboard price by much. maybe next gen Llano we'll see this (really hoping for). 

another reason for this move can be that GPU will start to run ahead of the proccy.


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## soumo27 (Aug 30, 2011)

When will these notebooks launch??


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## jagdish (Sep 14, 2011)

*Re: AMD Compares Llano and Sandy Bridge in Video*



ico said:


> *www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/03/11x01038b73amd.jpg
> 
> Core i7-2630QM with a discrete laptop GPU will obviously be faster, but if you look from the view point of OEM, it will be much more expensive. Basically, this thing guns for 35-50k notebooks imho.
> 
> I also expect Core i5-2xxxM + discrete GPU power consumption to be higher than the APU previewed in the video.



It will use more battery too.


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