# 1962 -The India china WAR revisited!



## vaithy (Oct 21, 2012)

To day the politicians are celebrating(remembering) the sacrifices of 4000 Indians soldiers and officers perished in the ice coffins of Himalayas...For 50 years they constantly refused to acknowledged the wanton life lost and Heroic sacrifices made by our brave soldiers.
“I remember many a time when our senior generals came to us, and wrote to the defence ministry saying that they wanted certain things… If we had had foresight, known exactly what would happen, we would have done something else… what India has learnt from the Chinese invasion is that in the world of today there is no place for weak nations… We have been living in an unreal world of our own creation.”-Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru in Rajya Sabha, in 1963, 

The defeat in the 1962 border war made him realise that there is indeed no place for weak nations in the world politics.

“In the political and diplomatic fields too, significant changes came through the 1962 episode, bringing more realism,” notes the official Indian history of the border war between India and China.

The India-China war was an eye-opener for India. But even after 50 years, the people of India are not aware of the circumstances and reasons that led to India’s defeat.

It is not China’s betrayal that led to India’s defeat..From 1960 itself various military inputs suggest unusual Chinese military in the northern NEFA border. It is Nehru’s belief, and Menon’s arrogance, coupled with his crony general’s tactical mistake,and Indian political leadership decision not to use Indian Air force led to these bloodshed.

4000 officers and solders perished and for 50 years we constantly refused to acknowledge their sacrifices,  
Let us revisit the one tragic battlefield

Last moments of 4th Rajput
Lagyala Gompa, the last monastery is located on a high feature overlooking the
Morshing Valley as well as the route Lt Col Bramhanand Avasthywas taking. There was a plateau just
before it made its steep climb to the monastery. It was an ideal killing field.
Unfortunately a 500 strong Chinese unit had already moved in behind and one
group was waiting in ambush at Lagyala Gompa. As Avasthy and his approached
the Gompa they came under heavy fire from the Chinese. Avasthy and his men
hit back. They could have probably chosen to fall back and look for another way
around but decided to fight the Chinese. Although lacking heavy firepower
Avasthy launched a 2 pronged counter attack. The battle was fierce and the
Chinese annoyed by the casualties they were taking tried to isolate Avasthy and
cut him off. But Avasthy’s men surrounded their gallant leader and fought to the
bitter end. Finally it came down to hand to hand combat and after a few hours the

Chinese prevailed. The battlefield was a ghastly sight. Over 200 Chinese bodies
and 126 Indian bodies littered the area. Every Indian was killed or wounded ie
100 percent casualties. Among them were Avasthy and his fellow officers. A
shepherd boy who later became the Head Lama of the monastery is the only
witness to this heroic episode. The Chinese dug a mass grave for the Indians and
left a flattened ration tin with the names of the officers. After the ceasefire the
bodies were retrieved. Avasthy’s body was found with a blood soaked letter to his
wife.
A company led by Major KPP Nair some how find this mass grave and identifies the corpes.

It is an irony that the war started and ended with Rajput battalions bearing the
brunt of Chinese attacks. In Lt Col Bramhanand Avasthy the Regiment and the
Indian Army lost one of its finest officers.

courtesy:*www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/History/196…


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## ajaymailed (Oct 21, 2012)

It was after 1962 defeat, our Military actually started decent buildup in larger numbers, better weapons, equipment , which helped a lot in 1965 & 71 conflicts with Pakistan. It needed sacrifices of thousands of soldiers to realise we were unprepared, under equipped, outnumbered. Panicked Govt will never think of introducing Air Power, they would fear PLAAF Aircraft over Delhi which is pretty overwhelming and would take the war to whole new level.


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## icebags (Oct 21, 2012)

1962 was the result of poor management, infrastructure and bad decision taking capability of middle + top level management at the government side. It's good to know people and government are now aware of these problems, but there are still a long way to go to build up a decent defensive wall at the china border. May be a shock therapy like that was needed to break our government's sleep.
Salute to those who fought with what they had, in spite of all the lacking to protect our country.


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## Desmond (Oct 21, 2012)

For some reason, I do not see any gallantry in this. Rushing to die seems stupid.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Oct 21, 2012)

its all history now , there is need to learn lessons from it


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## icebags (Oct 21, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> For some reason, I do not see any gallantry in this. Rushing to die seems stupid.



sometimes rushing to die is the best you can do to keep alive those who are behind you.  if it's too late it could be permanently lost, u know.


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## vaithy (Oct 21, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> For some reason, I do not see any gallantry in this. Rushing to die seems stupid.



 don't think so!
 Lt Col Bramhanand Avasthy 's units was in best position to defend his formation, but a rout in sela pass Indian patrols, led to Brigade HQ issuing a confused decision to withdraw all their units, including Avasthy. Avasthy was asked to provide covering fire, so his fellow units to escape, See the folowing naration how his troops traped without any sight of escape..


> The C company less a platoon was pulled back from Lubrang and deployed on Pt 2898.
> B company under Major Mullay had occupied Gompacher.
> Meanwhile the confused decision had been arrived to withdraw from Sela. The
> analysis of this decision is another chapter by itself. Suffice to say it was
> ...



I start with my post only with last part, ' how Avasthy and his unit met their end. above qoute is the first part then you have to read the main post.sorry for the confusion caused


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## bubusam13 (Oct 21, 2012)

Hopeless.... come to Arunachal Pradesh border areas and you will know why I say it hopeless. On the other side of LOC China is building roads, army base, airports, why, why they need them in LOC. What is India Govt. doing?
If the Govt. is really realizing it, leave corruption and strengthen border if you don't want to loose another 4000, may be this time its higher since china's weapon technology has improved a lot.

P.S. _Salute to the martyrs _


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## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 21, 2012)

*Salutes Dead Soldiers*
@bubusam :no they are just more intrested to fill thier own pockets
@desmondavid : i agree
surrendering or running away seems a more intelligent and tactical battle plan


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## 101gamzer (Oct 21, 2012)

We Can Forgive But We Cant Forget...


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## bubusam13 (Oct 22, 2012)

Truth is Indians easily forget


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## Desmond (Oct 22, 2012)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> *Salutes Dead Soldiers*
> @bubusam :no they are just more intrested to fill thier own pockets
> @desmondavid : i agree
> surrendering or running away seems a more intelligent and tactical battle plan



Not exactly surrendering, but at least retreating. This way, you will still be at full strength to counter attack.


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## ajaymailed (Oct 22, 2012)

i think we did retreat, thats why we lost Aksai Chin in J&K and Arunachal Pradesh to China. Chinese withdrew from Arunachal because their supply line could not be established in difficult arunachal terrain holding line would be pretty difficult, they withdrew because of possible indian counterattack. This is what they claim, but it still remains a mystery to me.

The units which got trapped & surrounded had to either surrender or continue to fight hoping for some kind of rescue. unlike shown in bollywood movies, Soldiers do think about surviving/surrender and not just sacrificing their lives blindly. If surrendering as POW means severe torture at the enemy hands, its probably better to die early.

At the end of the day it all in the hands of Commanding Officer, the Jawans will happily die if asked to, no questions asked. Its the responsibility of CO to lead his fellow soliders & complete the mission with minimal casualties.


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## funskar (Oct 22, 2012)

It was all due to Pt nehru.
He should have listened to iron man of india..
And the shameless words by vk krishna.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Oct 22, 2012)

101gamzer said:


> We Can Forgive But We Cant Forget...



we are forgiving to Chinese ...ROFL


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## Desmond (Oct 22, 2012)

bubusam13 said:


> Truth is Indians easily forget



That's why we need to be reminded of the truth. Not that **** that we see on bollywood.


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## d3p (Oct 22, 2012)

bubusam13 said:


> Hopeless.... come to Arunachal Pradesh border areas and you will know why I say it hopeless. On the other side of LOC China is building roads, army base, airports, why, why they need them in LOC. What is India Govt. doing?
> If the Govt. is really realizing it, leave corruption and strengthen border if you don't want to loose another 4000, may be this time its higher since china's weapon technology has improved a lot.
> 
> P.S. _Salute to the martyrs _



At worse, if India & china ever going for a battle again, then i'm sure we going to lose more than earlier. We have lost 4,000 Martyrs earlier, this time we will lose 4,00,000 Soldiers with a blink of an eye.

Why ?? Yindian politics is another stab....Entire nations development related money is lying with Swiss Bank also known as BLACK MONEY.

Corruption is not also limited to Politicians these days, aam-aadmi is also corrupted & GREEDY too.

*"Pay me, i will vote...Pay me, i will provide information..Pay me, i will take everything upon my a$$..Pay me, i will die & kill innocent lives."*

If this ^^ continues, that's "THE END" for the entire nation.


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## bubusam13 (Oct 22, 2012)

Do you know last time it was becuse of Russia that India won. Chinese reached Tezpur, just 4 hours away from Guwahati. Had they reached Guwahati, whole NE region would have been under chinese now.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Oct 22, 2012)

d3p said:


> At worse, if India & china ever going for a battle again, then i'm sure we going to lose more than earlier. We have lost 4,000 Martyrs earlier, this time we will lost 4,00,000 Soldiers with a blink of an eye.
> 
> Why ?? Yindian politics is another stab....Entire nations development related money is lying with Swiss Bank also known as BLACK MONEY.
> 
> ...



May be more than that and lot territories also including sikkim and arunachal pradesh and if Pakistan opens a front in West (most probably it will open) ,kashmir too will be  gone ,hopefully war doesn't happen in future 

@ D3p 
you right everyone emerges from general public only


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## d3p (Oct 22, 2012)

Ignorance is Bliss....May be these are those precious words, which Yindians had ever taken so much seriously.

*Example : *
There's a war going on between India with Neighboring country. 

Politicians busy with looting PM's Fund & President's. Store / Throw every penny inside Swiss Account, without thinking what next day has to offer for them.
Opposition party is busy with finding loop holes, which can take the entire ruling govt down & the party chief can become Prime Minister & build the govt.

One third of the nation is busy with silly talks like "Oh...India is in War"as if its a child play. Another one third is busy flooding comments on Facebook/Twitter/My Space/Youtube etc. etc.. Millionaire/Billionaire playboys are busy in investing/bidding/betting/watching IPL. Worst case take a vacation outside India.

Anti Social Activity Specialists like Baba Ramdev will surely go on Fasting with Anna Hazaare seeking support from Facebook & twitter users against the term called as *"WAR"*. Coz YIndia is a Peace Loving Nation. 

Peace my a$$...India might be a peace loving nations, but don't go wrong with Yindians.

Nationwide the news channels will show "Saif having sex with a street dog" or "Worm found from the KFC's Chicken", but hardly anyone morns about a Soldier or Entire Village/Town getting ripped off. Few Journalist will dare to show what is happening in the battlefield in a show called "Direct from the Battlefield" & later might be awarded for the brave act.

^^ Are you kidding me, bravery act ?? These are the first persons, who should be killed during the telecast..........

Top to bottom, everything runs with MONEY in our nation. But you commit a sh!t, others will surely lecture about Values & Prosperity.

If its all about Values & Human Rights, then why Kasab is still in Jail. He should have been sent free to his own Country long time back.

If its all about Vengence, then there won't be any Pak in the World Map, Since the Kargill War.

But the fact is always a fact......The Entire System relies on Money....not on any other sh!t.

More they get, the more the remain silence. Doesn't matter whether its in Pounds or dollars.


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## ico (Oct 22, 2012)

well, it was small army vs big army back then. Weapons were same. China = more soldiers behind one gun. You shoot one guy and the other guy picks up the gun. Result = win for them. And ofc, Jawaharlal Nehru is the biggest idiot this nation has seen.


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## Faun (Oct 22, 2012)

ssdivisiongermany1933 said:


> we are forgiving to Chinese ...ROFL



rofl...


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## bubusam13 (Oct 22, 2012)

chinese army also knows kung fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuussssssssss,,, dont u remenber


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## doomgiver (Oct 22, 2012)

d3p said:


> Ignorance is Bliss....May be these are those precious words, which _*YINDANS*_ had ever taken so much seriously.
> <snip>
> 
> called as *"WAR"*. Coz _*YINDANS*_ is a Peace Loving Nation. (WE INVENTED ZERO!!!!)
> ...


the stuff in purple is my edit.
sorry for snipping out the important bits.

ALSO, FTFY.
WE INVANTED ZEROOOOO!!!111ONEONEoneone


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## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 22, 2012)

ico said:


> well, it was small army vs big army back then. Weapons were same. China = more soldiers behind one gun. You shoot one guy and the other guy picks up the gun. Result = win for them. And ofc, Jawaharlal Nehru is the biggest idiot this nation has seen.


+1
@d3p :+1 
everything runs on money


and there is a formula for an india china war
for every 1 brown soldier there are 6 yellow commie b!tches


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## icebags (Oct 22, 2012)

ico said:


> well, it was small army vs big army back then. Weapons were same. China = more soldiers behind one gun. You shoot one guy and the other guy picks up the gun. Result = win for them. And ofc, Jawaharlal Nehru is the biggest idiot this nation has seen.



its more than the size of army nowadays. while holding a line of control in border, if its plain land, there is more of deploying numbers of armored vehicles & soldiers. but if it's hilly terrain like our north part, mounted hidden field guns, aerial superiority and strong supply line infrastructure matters most.

if they attack along the borders, they will basically send out numbers of tactical team groups or use other techs to identify bunkers and bases near to the line. then they will take out those with guided bombarding (on both base and it supply line). our forces are expected to do the same. now it will be a game of destruction and rebuild/ retaking of those. if its plain field, army can always deploy soldiers if no option left, but in hilly areas retaking a point is more difficult (see kargil) it will be mass massacre to go for head on attack with just soldiers. it's more like the ultimate test of combat engineers and tactics of high command.

1962 war was kinda they same, but there are more sophisticated techs around now.


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## asingh (Oct 23, 2012)

I hope we learnt our lesson. But seems we did not. Took us ages to deploy the SF, when Mumbai happened.


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## bubusam13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Huuh !!... Indian Govt. is like "see world, we are good. Come on foreigners, kill our people, take away our land. We won't fight you back. We believe in ahimsha. If you want more, just ask, we will give you"

Advantage India in Bangladesh land swap - India - DNA
A bunch of lies. Indian Govt. gave out land, India didn't received any yet. And you know what, those Indians inhabiting these area are left in delima what they will call them? Indian or ...

Look at Kashmir. File:Kashmir region 2004.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is India, which is pak, which is China


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## doomgiver (Oct 23, 2012)

i really dont know what the indian politicians are doing.... i mean, what roadmap do they have?
what is their foriegn policy??? suck off all italians?

wjat will they do with so much money?


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## vaithy (Oct 23, 2012)

Some of my friends ask, what happened to that Brave soldier's family
Here the narration.
From NDTV news,



> Neeharika Naidu, whose father Lt. Col. Brahmanand Avasthi who died gallantly fighting the marauding Chinese near a place called Rupa in Arunachal Pradesh (then known as NEFA--North East Frontier Agency) says: "It's very sad for me. Ok. after 50 years someone has thought it was even important to ask us what are our feelings and  how did we cope after all these years .We've not had any real help or support  from the government or the people or anyone for that matter. Yes, our regiment and friends supported us but our regiment and friends don't give us daal roti. They can give you emotional support, be by your side when you are ill but they don't give you food and a shelter over your head."
> 
> Mrs Naidu married another Rajput Regiment Officer, Milan Naidu, years after she lost her father. Milan Naidu rose to become Vice Chief of Army Staff and retired about four years ago. She however points out that her mother was extremely brave in facing the situation. "I must say am extremely proud of my mother and all women like her of that era 1962 and 1971 who have really, really struggled to make ends meet and to bring up their children and their families. I married an Army man because for me that was the only option and am a very, very proud wife because he finished his career as the vice chief of the army staff. What more can a man want? What more can a woman want? And for me the Army was the only option. My son is in the air force. My daughter-in-law is also an air force pilot till recently. She retired and that is the best way to be. After 50 years today, when I look back in retrospect, I am primarily my father's daughter. An Army daughter, who went on to become an Army wife and an Army mother and mother-in-law. Even as I am very, very proud to be my husband's wife, I think primarily am most proud to be an Army daughter. The daughter of lieutenant colonel Brahmanand Avasthi Rajput who fought the last man, last man standing and I think even today his name stands me wherever I go."



Read the full article here1962 war with China: The delayed recognition | NDTV.com


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## raghupratap (Oct 23, 2012)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> For some reason, I do not see any gallantry in this. Rushing to die seems stupid.



At first, your statement seemed facetious. But not on thinking for a moment. Sometimes, it makes sense to retreat - live to fight another day.

Yet, sometimes madness is needed - that is why there are only 21 PVC recipients - 14 dead when they got it. Soldiers are always give objectives - and they have to achieve it. Sometimes, they need to climb 1000 feet of vertical rocks, brave hail of bullets - do all kinds of mad stuff to achieve those objectives.


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## doomgiver (Oct 23, 2012)

well, actually, it makes no sense for a whole brigade to just rush in into heavy artillery bombardment, when that heavy artillery could be silenced by a few select suicidal soldiers.

would you send 500 men to their certain death with a close to zero chance of destroying the objective (artillery here), or would you send 10 men to covertly take out the objective, sacrificing them in the process???

the war is won by achieving goals. if battles were won by bravery alone then these guy would have won the whole damn war :
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_of_the_Light_Brigade

it takes b@ll$ of st33l to charge into a hail of bullets, while screaming "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN". or madness. no one quite knows.


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## d3p (Oct 23, 2012)

doomgiver said:


> well, actually, it makes no sense for a whole brigade to just rush in into heavy artillery bombardment, when that heavy artillery could be silenced by a few select suicidal soldiers.
> 
> would you send 500 men to their certain death with a close to zero chance of destroying the objective (artillery here), or would you send 10 men to covertly take out the objective, sacrificing them in the process???
> 
> ...



I support you on this, but as stated earlier "Warfare needs tactics apart from Artileries." We have many brave soldiers ; not sure about the arms & ammunition, but tactics used by us still the old ones.


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