# Camera below 30k



## raj_55555 (Jan 12, 2013)

Hi guys,
Had a good response in the laptop threads, hope that's the case here too.

What would be a good camera below 30k? I am not a novice, but neither an expert with cameras, this will be my first serious camera though! Any non-offensive comments/suggestions are welcome. 

I think Canon SX50HS and Nikon P5100 are good choices. I am leaning towards sx50HS.


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## sujoyp (Jan 12, 2013)

since ur budget is great y not get panasonic FZ200 which got great reviews for its low light capabilities....

SX50HS is also good no doubt.


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## marvelousprashant (Jan 12, 2013)

+1 for FZ200

Or if you want better IQ, low light performance several mirrorless are available

If you are planning to invest later on then D3100


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## nac (Jan 12, 2013)

FZ200 and SX50 are good cameras... But in my view, both are too expensive. I would relax my requirements (zoom, constant aperture, PASM in video etc) and get HS30EXR.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks sujayp and marvelousprasant
I really won't be spending anything on the camera, this will be a one time investment. According to this ComparisionFZ200 looses by a fair margin. In any case I don't want to shoot 3-D images, and both seem to be using the same sensors. Any specific advantage of FZ200 that you are aware of over sx50hs? 

It's shows that Panaroma isn't available with SX50hs, but I think stitch mode is the same thing. Correct me if I am wrong.



nac said:


> FZ200 and SX50 are good cameras... But in my view, both are too expensive. I would relax my requirements (zoom, constant aperture, PASM in video etc) and get HS30EXR.



HS30EXR costs 21k if I am not wrong, SX50HS is available for 26k on ebay. What do you say?


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## marvelousprashant (Jan 12, 2013)

Did not like IQ from HS30EXR (compared to FZ150)
Fujifilm HS30 EXR quality | Cameralabs

FZ200 has constant F/2.8 lens which is one very major advantage. It will help take great images in low light situations.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 12, 2013)

marvelousprashant said:


> Did not like IQ from HS30EXR (compared to FZ150)
> Fujifilm HS30 EXR quality | Cameralabs
> 
> FZ200 has constant F/2.8 lens which is one very major advantage. It will help take great images in low light situations.



But SX50hs has much better maximum light sensitivity(2f stops better) and is a lot cheaper as well. I think it's better VFM than FZ200. I will still do a fair share of research and compare pics before buying.

One more thing, sdhc or sdxc? I have no idea.


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## sujoyp (Jan 12, 2013)

2f stop better light sensitivity  you are looking at ISO...if u go above 1600ISO u will get super ugly pics soo 12800 ISO is just gimmick

Now canon have f3.4-f6.5 aperture and fz200 have f2.8 constant soo canon is completely lost here...generally speaking you will not be able to use zoom of ur canon sx50 even in cloudy weather...where fz200 have f2.8 which will help u even at night

but if u want 50x zoom vs 24x zoom then get canon.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 12, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> generally speaking you will not be able to use zoom of ur canon sx50 even in cloudy weather...where fz200 have f2.8 which will help u even at night


This is new to me.  What does "f3.4-f6.5 aperture and fz200 have f2.8 constant" this really mean?

Also care to comment on sdhc vs sdxc? And which class would be sufficient for this camera, I guess class 6 would be enough.


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## Gen.Libeb (Jan 12, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> This is new to me.  What does "f3.4-f6.5 aperture and fz200 have f2.8 constant" this really mean?



f3.4-f6.5 ,  f2.8 constant -    The lower this is the better, because your camera can capture more light when this is lower.  Means you can use it better in low light conditions.

f3.4-f6.5 :In this case it is f3.4 when  you have not zoomed at all. 
At maximum zoom it goes up to f6.5 which means it captures less light. 
To compensate this you will need to  either 
  1 : Increase the ISO (not a good  thing, makes your pictures grainy  unless your camera is capable to handle higher ISO) 
  2 : Lower the shutter speed  (Hand held could result in blur, might need to use tripod / table / something like that)

Constant f2.8 ->  This stays the same whether you zoom it or not.

Experts please correct if I am wrong.


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## ramakanta (Jan 12, 2013)

_Nikon_  colpix Life series.. Nikon | Home


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## raj_55555 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks Gen. I did some research of my own. It seems it's aperture vs zooming. I think I will go with the Panasonic one. Thanks a lot guys.

If anybody wishes to comment on the sdhc vs sdxc and which class I should have I will appreciate it. Thanks again guys!


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## marvelousprashant (Jan 12, 2013)

SDHC support means upto 32gb cards can be used
SDXC means >32gb cards can be used

SD = Secure Digital
HC = High Capacity
XC = eXtended Capacity 

Class 6 extreme or class 10 would be good for videos as well as RAW shooting


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## sujoyp (Jan 12, 2013)

It seems lots of doubts got cleared up  yes its really aperture vs zooming

you dont have to get SDXC ...its costly and I think more than 32GB in capacity.

just get a sandisk extreme class 10 or sandisk ultra class 6 ...in both cases u wont face problem....and if possible get 2x8 GB rather than 1 16GB card...for safety and backup


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## nac (Jan 13, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> HS30EXR costs 21k if I am not wrong, SX50HS is available for 26k on ebay. What do you say?



I see you have finalized your choice, this is just for your info.. HS30EXR costs 19k on ebay.



marvelousprashant said:


> Did not like IQ from HS30EXR (compared to FZ150)



Yeah, it's little noisy but I still very much like this camera for the controls it offers. Hoping, the recently announced super zooms will be better in terms of IQ. FZ60 is a good one under 20k.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks guys! I really appreciate your time. I'll get the Fz200 with two Sandisk ultra 8GB.


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## nac (Jan 13, 2013)

You will be getting one memory card along with the bundle. You can get the extra memory cards as and when you need them.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 13, 2013)

yeah! But that will be a 4GB card. And I doubt it to be higher than class 4.


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## sujoyp (Jan 13, 2013)

you r right ...they give crappy memorycards free...still u can wait n see whats free


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## nac (Jan 13, 2013)

Yeah, most likely it would be class 4 I think. It was class 4 two years ago, won't shouldn't they be giving class 6 now


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## raj_55555 (Jan 14, 2013)

Guys will THIS work with FZ200? Just wanna be sure!


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## nac (Jan 14, 2013)

Yeah, It is compatible.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks buddy


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## rider (Jan 14, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> Thanks buddy



From where you are buying FZ200? How much it costs?


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## raj_55555 (Jan 15, 2013)

rider said:


> From where you are buying FZ200? How much it costs?


It cost roughly 28500 after applying ebay coupon EBAYCAM100. Check here


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## rider (Jan 15, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> It cost roughly 28500 after applying ebay coupon EBAYCAM100. Check here



Any idea of price dropping? If it is for 25k I would say overall a great device and VFM.

For 28,500. You can get Nikon D5100 DSLR with 18-55mm lens and Nikon warranty.


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## aadi007 (Jan 15, 2013)

rider said:


> Any idea of price dropping? If it is for 25k I would say overall a great device and VFM.
> 
> For 28,500. You can get Nikon D5100 DSLR with 18-55mm lens and Nikon warranty.



Buddy, can u please tell me where D5100 with kit lens it available for 28500?
I mean, reputed sites only..

So far, I got a price of 30500 at zoomin.


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## sujoyp (Jan 15, 2013)

Somebody checked in local shops and the min price was 29500 for D5100


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## raj_55555 (Jan 15, 2013)

rider said:


> Any idea of price dropping? If it is for 25k I would say overall a great device and VFM.
> 
> For 28,500. You can get Nikon D5100 DSLR with 18-55mm lens and Nikon warranty.



lols  DSLR is really not my game! I have no idea how to use one. I am content with a point and shoot, specially as I really don't intend on spending any more on lenses in future.

Canon sx50hs was available for 24.9 k on ebay though.



aadi007 said:


> Buddy, can u please tell me where D5100 with kit lens it available for 28500?
> I mean, reputed sites only..
> 
> So far, I got a price of 30500 at zoomin.



Buy from here. It costs 30.9 k If you buy before 20th January you may apply "EBAYCAM100" Coupon and get it for 5% less.


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## rider (Jan 15, 2013)

aadi007 said:


> Buddy, can u please tell me where D5100 with kit lens it available for 28500?
> I mean, reputed sites only..
> 
> So far, I got a price of 30500 at zoomin.



You are litlle late some days ago I had seen a reliable ebay seller selling it for 29500 in which bank coupons can be applied. 
But for now it is selling it for Rs 29,428 LINK in which no coupons are applicable but I think still a great deal. Go with it.


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## aadi007 (Jan 15, 2013)

thanks everyone for your replies.
How reliable is ebay? I am little skeptical...never bought from them.


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## rider (Jan 15, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> lols  DSLR is really not my game! I have no idea how to use one. I am content with a point and shoot, specially as I really don't intend on spending any more on lenses in future.
> 
> Canon sx50hs was available for 24.9 k on ebay though.



Okay, there is nothing no laugh about buying DSLR. Using it not a rocket science. Most of the functions and user interface is same in bridge camera that you are looking for. I suggest you to avoid Canon SX50HS unless you are looking for extremely high zoom photography. For the picture quality you should opt for FZ200.



aadi007 said:


> thanks everyone for your replies.
> How reliable is ebay? I am little skeptical...never bought from them.



For me ebay.in is 100% reliable, even more than flipkart. Basically shopping on ebay it depends upon the seller you are buying from. The seller I recommended seems to be faithful as he sold out 1819 products from the ebay store with 99.5% positive feedback.


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## raj_55555 (Jan 16, 2013)

Yup! I am getting that. Also there's a 6.5% discount applicable since today 

But if I get a DSLR, wouldn't I need to get separate lenses. I won't be able to spend any more on this.


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## mastervk (Jan 17, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> Yup! I am getting that. Also there's a 6.5% discount applicable since today
> 
> But if I get a DSLR, wouldn't I need to get separate lenses. I won't be able to spend any more on this.



in general yes you need to spend on additional good quality lenses ..

but you can work with single lens also (like 18 -55 mm which you generally get with body)...18 55 is good for event portrait landscape etc

for more zoom you can buy something like 18 -1135 or 18 -200 instead of 18 -55


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## sujoyp (Jan 17, 2013)

yaaah but there is no combo of 5100 and any other lens then 18-55...to get 18-105 you have to spend 8-10k more
and for 18-200 you have to spend 30-35k


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## raj_55555 (Jan 18, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> yaaah but there is no combo of 5100 and any other lens then 18-55...to get 18-105 you have to spend 8-10k more
> and for 18-200 you have to spend 30-35k


And that would mean it's not for me, I have already ordered my camera anyway..


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## sujoyp (Jan 18, 2013)

Great


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## nac (Jan 19, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> And that would mean it's not for me, I have already ordered my camera anyway..



FZ200??? Up to my knowledge, You would be the first one here to buy that cam. Post a comment when you get it... We would like to see some photographs from you then....


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## sujoyp (Jan 19, 2013)

yes..that too in evening or inside the house


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## raj_55555 (Jan 23, 2013)

Sorry guys! Had a last minute cash crunch, and had to cancel my order. I will get the same next month (once I get the salary ). I will surely post pics then.


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## sujoyp (Jan 23, 2013)

disappointed


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## nac (Jan 23, 2013)

Raj, I don't know where did you order your camera. But ebay have a nice offer and seller is reliable too, so I would suggest to get it. It's under 28k (with coupon) and you can opt for 3 month EMI @ 0% interest and no processing fee (up to my knowledge).


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## raj_55555 (Jan 29, 2013)

@Sujoy Sorry to disappoint 

@nac Actually we had a sudden plan to visit Gangtok, and one of my friends already had the sx50. So I decided to use the money in traveling, I am planning to get it in feb though.


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## nac (Jan 29, 2013)

Hope you will get a nice deal then...


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## tkin (Jan 29, 2013)

I'd suggest FZ200, F2.8 all the way


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## sujoyp (Jan 29, 2013)

@raj where r the pics of gangtok


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## raj_55555 (Jan 30, 2013)

You really wanna see them.. I'll post them this evening. Got some nice shots with it.


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## sujoyp (Jan 30, 2013)

yes I want to see those...that will also be a test for SX50


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## raj_55555 (Jan 31, 2013)

Sure, absolutely didn't get any time yesterday, have too much work at the office. I'll sure try and post them today.



sujoyp said:


> yes I want to see those...that will also be a test for SX50















Please mind that I've shot them in RAW and some sort of post-processing (Not Photoshopped) was done with almost all of them. Files were compressed before I posted them here. Hope you guys like them


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## raj_55555 (Feb 2, 2013)

Hey guys! Any comments? It seems everybody just disappeared..


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## tkin (Feb 2, 2013)

Pretty good pics I'd say, specially the first few ones like the bird on the roof, or the mountains, the moon(love that zoom), a few pics however lack sharp focus, like the parrot, the goat, the red flower, but overall, good job, now post a few pics here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/cameras-camcorders/118227-photography-thread-235.html


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## sujoyp (Feb 2, 2013)

@raj ...panorama is awesome...parrot shot really lacks focus else it would come good....flower composition is totally wrong... just keep trying...

but where r gangtok sceneries...most shots r focussed on single subject like bird,flower...what about buildings sceneries


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## raj_55555 (Feb 2, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> @raj ...panorama is awesome...parrot shot really lacks focus else it would come good....flower composition is totally wrong... just keep trying...
> 
> but where r gangtok sceneries...most shots r focussed on single subject like bird,flower...what about buildings sceneries



The parrot shot I took while I was in a vehicle, and also it's cropped so I'd say that's job well done  But yeah, I need to learn. There are a few other shots, I just can't get enough time to go through them all this week. Will post the pics on the other thread  given by tkin asap 

BTW what would you correct in the flower composition?



tkin said:


> Pretty good pics I'd say, specially the first few ones like the bird on the roof, or the mountains, the moon(love that zoom), a few pics however lack sharp focus, like the parrot, the goat, the red flower, but overall, good job, now post a few pics here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/cameras-camcorders/118227-photography-thread-235.html



I see you're from kolkata too, thanks for the compliments


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## sujoyp (Feb 3, 2013)

The correct flower composition will be from side ways or sideways and slightly top...but not very close....the background, and stems increase the beauty of the flower


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## raj_55555 (Feb 4, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> The correct flower composition will be from side ways or sideways and slightly top...but not very close....the background, and stems increase the beauty of the flower


K. Will keep that in mind next time.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

K guys, I am back 
However all this time got me extra time to think this through.. I am really considering a DSLR. What about Nikon 5100?? Come on guys fire away 

Also if you think fz200 is better than d5100 let me know.


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## tkin (Feb 27, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> K guys, I am back
> However all this time got me extra time to think this through.. I am really considering a DSLR. What about Nikon 5100?? Come on guys fire away
> 
> *Also if you think fz200 is better than d5100 let me know.*


Oh, hell no. D5100 is waaaaaay better.

Just look at the cost, a full 5100 setup with 3 lenses(macro, 18-55, and tele) will cost you around 50k? While the FZ200 goes for around half of that. The only advantage FZ200 has over D5100 is speed, portability and ease of use.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

tkin said:


> Oh, hell no.
> 
> Just look at the cost, a full 5100 setup with 3 lenses(macro, 18-55, and tele) will cost you around 50k? While the FZ200 goes for around half of that. The only advantage FZ200 has over D5100 is speed, portability and ease of use.



But what about the image quality, it has almost 14 times bigger sensor? I can live on 18-55 mm for now, and maybe get a telephoto in 6 months time. I am not sure..


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## tkin (Feb 27, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> But what about the image quality, it has almost 14 times bigger sensor? I can live on 18-55 mm for now, and maybe get a telephoto in 6 months time. I am not sure..


Umm, that's what I meant, in pure IQ D5100 is in a completely different league than FZ200, or any bridge cam.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

tkin said:


> The only advantage FZ200 has over D5100 is speed, portability and ease of use.


lols.. I read this the other way around . Thanks.
Anyways, the reason why I'm considering this is I used sx50hs and I don't think I'll be satisfied by the image quality it provides. The problem is that I rarely do portraits.. Won't the 18-55 mm lens be good enough for most stuff? I think I can really use a DSLR.. But can't spend more than 30k now..


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## tkin (Feb 27, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> lols.. I read this the other way around . Thanks.
> Anyways, the reason why I'm considering this is I used sx50hs and I don't think I'll be satisfied by the image quality it provides. The problem is that I rarely do portraits.. Won't the 18-55 mm lens be good enough for most stuff? I think I can really use a DSLR.. But can't spend more than 30k now..


18-55 offers no zoom and macro, so, if I were you I'd not buy it, a DSLR without macro and tele is useless to me, least you could do is get D5100 is 18-105 lens and a macro lens. 18-55 is only uselful for portraits and the likes.

If you have 30 budget you can do one of these:

A. Get FZ200
B. Get a DSLR and add some lenses later(within this year).


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks tkin, I appreciate your responses.. But aargh! I'll go crazy.. What would be the minimum lens required for say shooting something 50 meters away?

BTW I just saw your PM.. Do you still need a reply?


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## tkin (Feb 27, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> Thanks tkin, I appreciate your responses.. But aargh! I'll go crazy.. What would be the minimum lens required for say shooting something 50 meters away?


Have no idea, ask DSLR users, like sujoyp, another guy who lives in bonn(check the photography thread).



raj_55555 said:


> Thanks tkin, I appreciate your responses.. But aargh! I'll go crazy.. What would be the minimum lens required for say shooting something 50 meters away?
> 
> *BTW I just saw your PM.. Do you still need a reply*?


No, I got the laptop already


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

Congrats man!


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## tkin (Feb 27, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> Congrats man!


 

Get FZ200 man, its worth it, DSLR is only an option if you can spend 50k, a DSLR without the three lenses or at least a macro and 18-105 is useless for amateur photographers like us.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

It seems that's what will happen.. No DSLR for poor people


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## sujoyp (Feb 27, 2013)

ok soo u guys r taking too much of tension, it seems 

Macro lens is useless if u do not shoot macros...from last 1 year I didnt have time or patience to shoot any 

why dont u get D3100 +18-55 +Tamron 70-300  combo ....it will cost around 33k and it will cover wide+portrait+300mm zoom +2:1 macro 

problem solved  

now dont tell me that u love D5100 and its what u want to get   you cant have everything togather at same time


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## raj_55555 (Feb 27, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> ok soo u guys r taking too much of tension, it seems
> 
> Macro lens is useless if u do not shoot macros...from last 1 year I didnt have time or patience to shoot any
> 
> ...



 I don't love it, but how much will d5100 + 18-55 + 70-300 cost? I guess I'm getting greedy, but I figure 70-300 will cost me 8k if I take it separately. So maybe I will get that in 4-5 months later, and get d5100 + 18-55 now. How about that? 
I have taken a lot of  shots using sx30is and sx50hs , but seeing the DSLR's quality I really think I can do much better. Let me know your opinion.

BTW D5100 doesn't have auto-focus motor (I don't know much about it), will that matter?


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## sujoyp (Feb 28, 2013)

A D5100+18-55+Tammy 70-300 will cost you 5k more ....look greed have no end ...then maybe you will think y should you go for a non VR non-AFS lens like tamron when you can get a Nikon 55-300 for 7k more ...it will go on like this 

Yes DSLR quality is just too good...if you love photography DSLR is the way to go.

D5100 dont have focus motor...but I dont think it matters much...almost all modern lenses have inbuilt motor....the focus motor is a disadvantage if u have old lenses..or you are planning to get old used lenses...BTW canon too dont have motor in any of there DSLRs


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> A D5100+18-55+Tammy 70-300 will cost you 5k more ....look greed have no end ...then maybe you will think y should you go for a non VR non-AFS lens like tamron when you can get a Nikon 55-300 for 7k more ...it will go on like this
> 
> Yes DSLR quality is just too good...if you love photography DSLR is the way to go.
> 
> D5100 dont have focus motor...but I dont think it matters much...almost all modern lenses have inbuilt motor....the focus motor is a disadvantage if u have old lenses..or you are planning to get old used lenses...BTW canon too dont have motor in any of there DSLRs



Lobhe paap, paape mrittyu.. If you know what I mean 
Thanks for clarifying about the motors. I think I will get D5100, and the tamron one a couple months later.. 

I don't know what VR is though.. It's google time.

________EDIT__________
Hey something just hit me, what if I buy used lenses? Will that be such a bad idea?


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## sujoyp (Feb 28, 2013)

no ...used lens is not at all a bad idea...I am using 3 used lenses myself namely Tamron 17-50,nikon 50mm and nikon 55mm micro

Just check the lens properly before getting...its a risk of your own  someone was selling 55-300 AFS VR for 12k some days back in other forum...that was a good deal

actually u can get everything used if u want since D5100 is just 2 years old..
but still u maynot fit everything in 30k


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> no ...used lens is not at all a bad idea...I am using 3 used lenses myself namely Tamron 17-50,nikon 50mm and nikon 55mm micro
> 
> Just check the lens properly before getting...its a risk of your own  someone was selling 55-300 AFS VR for 12k some days back in other forum...that was a good deal
> 
> ...



I will try to stretch the budget as much as possible. Are second hand cameras/lens being sold on this forum? Could you please post the link?


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## sujoyp (Feb 28, 2013)

Sorry I dont visit the buy sell of TDF forum....I use jjmehta.com/forum buy sell segment to buy used camera equipments

but  I would say ,the risk u have to bear  

best is if u can personally check the items, you live in which city?

canon 600d sale
WTS:Canon T1i body with 2 lenses (18-35mm & 55-250mm) PRICE REDUCED


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

I am from kolkata.. I was completely unaware of this.. thanks


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## sujoyp (Feb 28, 2013)

ooh kolkata...I recently bought a 1 yr old tamron 17-50 from kolkata


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> ooh kolkata...I recently bought a 1 yr old tamron 17-50 from kolkata


But you're not from kolkata, how did you check the lens?


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## pranav0091 (Feb 28, 2013)

I'd really recommend the D3100 over the FZ200 anyday if you are not too interested in extreme zoom. The only thing that can beat a DSLR in IQ (at a particular price point) is another. Not that the FZ200 is bad in anyway, infact its awesome, but still cannot match a DSLR in terms of IQ.

And regarding your question on shooting something 50m away, it all depends on how big you want the object to be. But as a general (very general) estimate, expect to see the same "magnification" as your eye at about 50mm (50mm focal length of the lens).


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

pranav0091 said:


> expect to see the same "magnification" as your eye at about 50mm (50mm focal length of the lens).


Hey, could you clarify this part please?

BTW I was interested in super zoom, but after using sx50 I understood that it's one of those things that you just want to try once.  I know it's a controversial question, but what would you pick D3200 or D5100? I am not reading too much into megapixels but the customer feedbacks of D5100 on Nikons website wasn't very promising. There were a lot of complains of blackouts, improper focus and easy breakage.. Care to comment?


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## pranav0091 (Feb 28, 2013)

Yeah, sure. I knew the moment I posted that reply that it was very vague. Let me explain.
Ever noticed how the output from your phone camera shows everything smaller than how they appear to the naked eye? Of course you can zoom in to 100% magnification and get a bigger picture, but I am talking about the case when you are viewing the whole picture at once. 

Before proceeding see this pic
IMG_0158 copy | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Standing at the same point as the camera, I saw everything as large as that picture shows. Its called 'angular magnification' and to the best of my estimates I feel that at 40-50mm a lens (over a APS-C sensor) is very close to angular magnification of the human eye.

Between the D3200 and D5100 I strongly vote for the D5100. In fact I'd go so far as to say that avoid the D3200. Others might have different opinions but I find the D3200 and D5200 to be much inferior to D5100 when it comes to IQ. The specs tell you a different story, but I'd trust my eye over paper-specifications any day.

Here is my best advice. Go to some showroom, try a DSLR, take a few pics, observe how they come out. You wouldnt want to settle for anything less thereafter. Unless you are a zoom-freak. Build is solid for the D5100, better than Canon equivalents. It has slight issues at focusing at low light but so has every other price-comparable DSLR, with the Canons edging marginally ahead here.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

Wow! Nicely explained man.. I was almost determined on the D5100, the negative customer feedbackson the nikon page gave me a few hiccups.. I guess I'll go for that one for now.. Looking for a good second hand deal right now, if I can't find anything I'll get a new one.


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## pranav0091 (Feb 28, 2013)

Dont worry. Handle the camera with care and you'll find it should last long. Every product has some defective pieces.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

Thanks bud


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## raja manuel (Feb 28, 2013)

pranav0091 said:


> And regarding your question on shooting something 50m away, it all depends on how big you want the object to be. But as a general (very general) estimate, expect to see the same "magnification" as your eye at about 50mm (50mm focal length of the lens).



Yes, one needs to know what magnification you need at 50 metres. For example, I took this photo of the launch of the PSLV-C20 blasting off from Sriharikota standing at a beach in Chennai, 85 kms away. It is obviously not zoomed in (I actually zoomed out all the way to the 18mm end to include the foreground for some perspective) but if I had a 50X zoom on my camera I would have been able to get a much much closer shot of the rocket itself than what I could have achieved with the 3X zoom offered by the lens on my camera. However this photo demonstrates another important advantage that DSLRs offer: speed. The camera was safely packed in my bag when I saw the rocket start to climb, but I still managed to fire off several shots before it disappeared into the depths of space thanks to the camera coming alive and focussing quicker than a politician forgets his promises once elected. 

And this brings us to another important factor to consider when choosing a camera. DSLRs are heavy and bulky, even with the smaller 18-55 mm lens. It is ideally suited for planned photographs, not so much for capturing serendipitous moments because you are not likely to be carrying it. A smaller and lighter camera with a generous zoom and other features that give you flexibility of use while in the moment might let you capture slices of life rather than slices of light. An interesting image at medium quality will any day beat a boring image at pristine quality.


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## raj_55555 (Feb 28, 2013)

That's true, with the sx50hs I have taken some amazing pics. Then again whenever I see some bird shot, or portraits the level of details in the feathers or furs are just too much for me not to drool upon. Even on Superfine mode I can't reach the level of photos that the DSLR's have. For example here's a pic that I took using sx30IS, and  here's another  using 550D (not my pic).  Also I miss DOF in the mage.

I know that the photographer matters a lot, but I am sure you would agree that the difference in quality can't be ignore in the later image..


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## tkin (Feb 28, 2013)

Raja Manuel said:


> Yes, one needs to know what magnification you need at 50 metres. For example, I took this photo of the launch of the PSLV-C20 blasting off from Sriharikota standing at a beach in Chennai, 85 kms away. It is obviously not zoomed in (I actually zoomed out all the way to the 18mm end to include the foreground for some perspective) but if I had a 50X zoom on my camera I would have been able to get a much much closer shot of the rocket itself than what I could have achieved with the 3X zoom offered by the lens on my camera. However this photo demonstrates another important advantage that DSLRs offer: speed. The camera was safely packed in my bag when I saw the rocket start to climb, but I still managed to fire off several shots before it disappeared into the depths of space thanks to the camera coming alive and focussing quicker than a politician forgets his promises once elected.
> 
> And this brings us to another important factor to consider when choosing a camera. DSLRs are heavy and bulky, even with the smaller 18-55 mm lens. It is ideally suited for planned photographs, not so much for capturing serendipitous moments because you are not likely to be carrying it. A smaller and lighter camera with a generous zoom and other features that give you flexibility of use while in the moment might let you capture slices of life rather than slices of light. An interesting image at medium quality will any day beat a boring image at pristine quality.


Some Bridge Cams are faster than DSLRs, check out Panasonic FZ150/FZ200, I'd never seen a faster AF even on DSLRs.


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## pranav0091 (Feb 28, 2013)

Sony ALT series has amazingly fast focus. But I wont recommend them because of the EVF.



Raja Manuel said:


> Yes, one needs to know what magnification you need at 50 metres. For example, I took this photo of the launch of the PSLV-C20 blasting off from Sriharikota standing at a beach in Chennai, 85 kms away. It is obviously not zoomed in (I actually zoomed out all the way to the 18mm end to include the foreground for some perspective) but if I had a 50X zoom on my camera I would have been able to get a much much closer shot of the rocket itself than what I could have achieved with the 3X zoom offered by the lens on my camera. However this photo demonstrates another important advantage that DSLRs offer: speed. The camera was safely packed in my bag when I saw the rocket start to climb, but I still managed to fire off several shots before it disappeared into the depths of space thanks to the camera coming alive and *focussing quicker than a politician forgets his promises once elected*.
> 
> *And this brings us to another important factor to consider when choosing a camera. DSLRs are heavy and bulky, even with the smaller 18-55 mm lens. It is ideally suited for planned photographs, not so much for capturing serendipitous moments because you are not likely to be carrying it.* A smaller and lighter camera with a generous zoom and other features that give you flexibility of use while in the moment might let you capture slices of life rather than slices of light. An interesting image at medium quality will any day beat a boring image at pristine quality.





I agree fully with this. And DSLRs are the worst cameras to have if you want someone else to photograph you. Dear god, it has to be experienced to be believed. But then, when you are using it after getting decently familiar with it, then nothing even comes close.

I recently went to a mall and they had a small fountain show in the evening. I had a friend's PnS with me and I have never been so disappointed with any camera as much as I was that day. I had grown used to the speed of the DSLRs and was shocked to see how poorly the PnS performed.


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## sujoyp (Feb 28, 2013)

lol pranav u r soo true...even I am soo used to the fast startup and fast click and fast saving that a point n shoot seems soo unusable

Just a correction an eye can see 50mm on full frame sensor and not APS-C sensor...on APS-C sensor its around 35mm what our eye sees 

As raja said usability is a factor ...but then most superzooms like HX200,FZ150,FZ200 etc have size nearly same as DSLR and need a bag to carry...

A person standing 50 meter away will need a 300mm to capture top to bottom and a 500mm for portraits(half body closeup)


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## pranav0091 (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks for the precise numbers buddy, I was making a very rough guess anyways 

You are correct regarding the size of modern superzooms. Another point we miss about superzooms is that with increasing zoom, the wobble of the user's hand is also magnified and its not exactly very pleasant. So beyond a point a tripod begins to make sense. And anyways at that kind of zoom levels, the pic is going to be flat (DOF-wise) and loses that charm which is one of the major factors that differentiates the wide-eyed DSLRs. And if you are not that much into zooming, then the DSLRs surely have the upper hand.

I am not implying the superzooms to be bad, but its suited for a very specific kind of people like those into wildlife or birding or maybe even the moon once in a while (on a tight budget that is, if budget is not a concern then you can get telephoto lenses for the DSLRs too). But for most other purposes the DSLRs have the upper hand, obviously. 

@OP: By your own statements you dont seem to be a fan of big-zoom, so I'd guess the DSLR makes more sense. How about a D3100 with 18-200 lens? That'd be very, very hard to beat. Of if you have the cash then upgrade to the D5100. I'd have recommended a couple of canons but price/performance-wise the Nikons are the better deal here


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

bro u know the price of nikon 18-200 VR ...its around 40k

even sigma 18-250 OS and tamron 18-270 PZD cost 35k around 

twin lens combo is economical and better optically


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## pranav0091 (Mar 1, 2013)

My bad, just checked. I dunno how I got this idea that its around 15k in price


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## tkin (Mar 1, 2013)

I was thinking about getting DSLR, so how much would an entry level(but good) DSLR and a macro and 300mm lens cost now? All first hand and as cheap as possible.


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## raj_55555 (Mar 1, 2013)

tkin said:


> I was thinking about getting DSLR, so how much would an entry level(but good) DSLR and a macro and 300mm lens cost now? All first hand and as cheap as possible.



I would say go with at sujoys advice, d3100 + 18-55 kit + tamron 70-300. AF-s will cost double i think.


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## tkin (Mar 1, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> I would say go with at sujoys advice, d3100 + 18-55 kit + tamron 70-300. AF-s will cost double i think.


And a macro lens, so still 50-60k cost(by entry level I don't mean D3200)


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

tkin ....I adviced tamron 70-300 Di LD macro which cost around 7000 and can do 2:1 macro also from the range of 200-300mm

*farm5.staticflickr.com/4120/4812257886_742293c76e.jpg
Tamron 70-300 Macro Bee by 55Laney69, on Flickr

if u r not into too much detailed macro and fine with just sometimes macro and some closeup of flowers then this lens will be enough ....btw my macro lens can also go upto 2:1 ...its not a big problem

soo the cheapest combo will be 
D3100+18-55 = 25k
Tamron 70-300 Di LD = 7k

Total =32-34k


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## tkin (Mar 1, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> tkin ....I adviced tamron 70-300 Di LD macro which cost around 7000 and can do 2:1 macro also from the range of 200-300mm
> 
> <a rel="nofollow" href="*www.flickr.com/photos/hansel5569/4812257886/" title="Tamron 70-300 Macro Bee by 55Laney69, on Flickr"><img src="*farm5.staticflickr.com/4120/4812257886_742293c76e.jpg" width="500" height="335" alt="Tamron 70-300 Macro Bee"></a>
> 
> if u r not into too much detailed macro and fine with just sometimes macro and some closeup of flowers then this lens will be enough ....btw my macro lens can also go upto 2:1 ...its not a big problem


Nice, so 30k for the cam, 7k for the lens, and bag etc, ~40k?


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## raj_55555 (Mar 1, 2013)

tkin said:


> And a macro lens, so still 50-60k cost(by entry level I don't mean D3200)



Buddy I said d3100 not d3200..


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

30k for D5100 and 25k for D3100  its ur choice

u can use free bag untill u have 3k more for bag ...u can also get a 2-3k tripod for landscapes..yaah a flash like YN465 will cost another 3800 ...thats all u want basically

D3100+18-55 = 26
Tamron 70-300 Di LD = 7k
Flash = 3800
tripod = 2k
bag for twin lens+DSLR = 2k

total = 40800 ....all covered


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## raj_55555 (Mar 1, 2013)

My budget is now increased to 55k.. Had a cash inflow from my sx50 friend (provided it's sold first).


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

wow Raj ...now u can get 
1) D5100+18-55+55-300VR +7k left for bag+tripod

2) D5100+18-55+nikon 70-300VR =all money gone

3) D5100 +18-55 + used tamron 90/tokina 100/sigma 105 macro lenscost 12-14k + save for zoom with 5 +12-13=18k (55-300vr)

4) D5100 body+tamron 17-50 2.8 = 47k and u have 8k , add more for zoom lens and macro lens  

5) D5100 body +used tamron 17-50 2.8 +used Nikon 55-300 VR


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## raj_55555 (Mar 1, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> wow Raj ...now u can get
> 1) D5100+18-55+55-300VR +7k left for bag+tripod
> 
> 2) D5100+18-55+nikon 70-300VR =all money gone
> ...



Hmm.. I think I will go for 3rd option. I was thinking if I can get a 2nd hand body, I'll save even more for the lens. BTW Getting a 3 months old canon 60D for 18K. Any suggestions? 

____EDIT____

Also it might be a stupid question, but what is the difference between the types of lenses? I know AF vs AF-S. But what is VR, L any other I don't know of?


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## raja manuel (Mar 1, 2013)

tkin said:


> Some Bridge Cams are faster than DSLRs, check out Panasonic FZ150/FZ200, I'd never seen a faster AF even on DSLRs.


The startup time alone of the FZ200 is 1 second while the Power On to First Shot time of my 600D is something like 0.3 second. That is what I was referring to when I said "camera coming alive and focussing".



raj_55555 said:


> That's true, with the sx50hs I have taken some amazing pics. Then again whenever I see some bird shot, or portraits the level of details in the feathers or furs are just too much for me not to drool upon. Even on Superfine mode I can't reach the level of photos that the DSLR's have. For example here's a pic that I took using sx30IS, and here's another using 550D (not my pic). Also I miss DOF in the mage.
> 
> I know that the photographer matters a lot, but I am sure you would agree that the difference in quality can't be ignore in the later image..



Going by the Matthias Besant's Flickr photostream, I would say that the photographer has made a lot of difference. He most probably had exclusive access, and perhaps an assistant with reflectors or even the luxury of setting up a radio triggered multi-flash system to achieve a very high degree of control over the lighting. There is also no mention of the lens used. Anyone wants to bet that is an L lens?
My point is that it is very difficult to compare the relative image quality of, say, an advanced Canon compact and a photo taken by a DSLR unless you are in a position to compare them yourself by shooting the same subject at the same time because that is the only way you can control for all the variables and take into account how many body parts you will need to sell in order to afford all that equipment. Since you might not be in a position to make such a comparison you could compare with photos taken by your friends in similar situations. At the very least, check the lens used to capture the rich detail you drool over. Also, are you comparing out of camera JPGs or processed Raw to Raw?

The photo you have taken is quite good. Is it an out of camera JPG or processed Raw?



pranav0091 said:


> Sony ALT series has amazingly fast focus. But I wont recommend them because of the EVF.



Some (many?) people like EVF because it offers the equivalent of Live View (exposure simulation). It is a valid point.



pranav0091 said:


> And DSLRs are the worst cameras to have if you want someone else to photograph you. Dear god, it has to be experienced to be believed.



Yes, it is a pain isn't it? By the way, have you tried photographing yourself using the self-timer? PnS is so much easier.


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## raj_55555 (Mar 1, 2013)

Raja Manuel said:


> The photo you have taken is quite good. Is it an out of camera JPG or processed Raw?



Thanks. That pic was out of camera JPG, also sx30IS never supported RAW shooting (without using CHDK).

Your post makes sense, and I don't have any experience whatsoever in DSLRs. So just one straight forward question, is it possible to get DSLR quality details using bridge cameras?(read FZ200 or sx50hs). I would hate to regret my decision later!


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

@raj  a simple answer to your question is NO ....u can not get the details of a DSLR in a bridge camera...its because u expect too much from a bridge camera...u want it to zoom 30x then take macro shot upto 1mm then u want it to produce nice blurred background...and nice colors and uncompressed RAW files all that at 1/10th of the cost of DSLR pack  

if all that a superzoom cam could do then y would people buy 2 lac DSLR and 5 lac lenses  

btw if u just want a okish quality and a all in one lens there is a SIgma 18-250 OS Macro 
Sigma 18-250mm F/3.5-6.3 DC Macro OS HSM (For Nikon) Lens - Sigma: Flipkart.com

u can fit it on a D3100 and you wont need any other lens at all  you will have a superzoom DSLR 

VR means vibration reduction in nikon and IS=image stabilisation in canon,VC=vibration compensation in Tamron and OS=optical stabilisation in Sigma ...they help in taking shots in low shutter speed without shake.
L lens in canon are the white lenses which have garunteed good performance...just like iphone  but they are costly


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## pranav0091 (Mar 1, 2013)

Raja Manuel said:


> Some (many?) people like EVF because it offers the equivalent of Live View (exposure simulation). It is a valid point.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is a pain isn't it? By the way, have you tried photographing yourself using the self-timer? PnS is so much easier.



Agree with the points you make, but I find the EVF to be very distracting and not suited for manual focus (Which is a big reason why I bought a DSLR in the first place). Secondly my Canon has a slider which indicates on a scale the exposure of the image at the current settings, never found the need to use live view to gauge it. These points are debatable, I realise, but I found it much more comfortable to  use the regular OVF of the canon over the very techy sony EVF. Just my two cents. And also try shooting multiple images with decent panning while using an EVF 


Yeah I had tried it a couple of times and its not the most wrist friendly thing to do


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## sujoyp (Mar 1, 2013)

@pranav...the best use of a EVF is for depth of preview and bokeh ....u can actually see how much area is in focus and what is blurred which is not possible in OVF untill u have DOF preview button on your cam... 

when shooting macro I had to use back lcd coz i could not estimate if the insect is really in focus and background blurred cause OVF display no chage other than bright and dark with aperture


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## tkin (Mar 1, 2013)

Raja Manuel said:


> *The startup time alone of the FZ200 is 1 second while the Power On to First Shot time of my 600D is something like 0.3 second. That is what I was referring to when I said "camera coming alive and focussing".*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought the AF time.


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## pranav0091 (Mar 1, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> @pranav...the best use of a EVF is for depth of preview and bokeh ....u can actually see how much area is in focus and what is blurred which is not possible in OVF untill u have DOF preview button on your cam...
> 
> when shooting macro I had to use back lcd coz i could not estimate if the insect is really in focus and background blurred cause OVF display no chage other than bright and dark with aperture



I was talking about the EVF buddy, not the back LCD. 

Yeah for macros its good to have the back LCD, again in my case the 600D has got the DOF button (oddly, I have never used it ) and a nice flip LCD over the Sony's ALT 37. 

One more thing. I just took out my camera. I see why I never used the DOF button, because the viewfinder itself shows me how the image is going to be. Then why do we need the DOF button?


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## sujoyp (Mar 2, 2013)

I am also talking about EVF...the evf displays the exact exposure and background blurring thats going to be in the photograph...but the OVF does not...

you do not belive me..do a test....set your lens at 55mm and put a object such that the background is at lest 5 feet away...now when you will see in the OVF you will find the scene very normal and subject in focus....now press DOF button and u will see the background getting blurred...thats what u will see the final photograph...this thing EVF shows


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## pranav0091 (Mar 2, 2013)

Actually that what I did and exactly why I got confused. I hear something move in the lens and I do see the aperture changing with my naked eye, but I cant see any significant change it makes to the bokeh seen on the OVF. I do find that the image becomes a bit dimmer, but thats at the 18mm end. I am focussing at my tripod with the wall about 7-10 feet behind it.

BTW, I do see the same amount of bokeh on the OVF as I would see in an image


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## raj_55555 (Mar 2, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> @raj  a simple answer to your question is NO ...


That seals it, I am getting a DSLR. 



sujoyp said:


> btw if u just want a okish quality and a all in one lens there is a SIgma 18-250 OS Macro


Actually I want very good quality images, even if it means having to wait for a couple months for the lens. I will learn in the mean while using the kit lens. I will keep an eye out for proper lens.



sujoyp said:


> u can fit it on a D3100 and you wont need any other lens at all  you will have a superzoom DSLR


Thanks sujoy bhai, but I really don't need a superzoom now, I know I did earlier. I guess I grew as a photographer 

Thanks for all the detailed explanations. In all probability I will get the camera by tuesday.  BTW 3 months old 600D body for 18K?? Isn't it a bit spooky?


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## pranav0091 (Mar 2, 2013)

Not actually. But if there is a bill, then it should come under warranty and you could get it.

The stock 18-55 IS II for the canon is priced at ~18k and I got my 600D @ 33k, so I think its a decent deal. But check before you buy about warranty.


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## sujoyp (Mar 2, 2013)

@pranav ...I think u need a bigger aperture lens like 50mm 1.8 or 17-50 2.8 to see proper difference in DOF   and 18-55 ISII dont cost 18 k but 8k 

@raj 600D for 18k is too good to be true...u have to give the link to check....even if its used it wont come down to 22-24k body only.

please check again is it 600D or D60 ...and is it body only or with kit lens


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## raj_55555 (Mar 2, 2013)

the link.. It's 600D only..


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## sujoyp (Mar 2, 2013)

yaah it seems its body only...and its 3 months old but it seems its a without bill and no warunty .....

you can give it a try...ask him if it have any defect...and if its under warrenty or gray....ask for the bill if he can show you at what price he bought.

then you have to get a lens saperately...which may cost 6-7k new and 4-5k used ....check that


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## pranav0091 (Mar 2, 2013)

I was looking at this one:
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens - Canon: Flipkart.com

I guess its inflated in price as its the older model and not Mark II.

@raj: Call him up and ask him why no warranty, see that reason he gives and then think about the rest. In the light of the price of the kit lens, now the offer of body-only at 18k is rather unusually low.


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## sujoyp (Mar 2, 2013)

flipkart have gone nuts  even canon official website puts 13K as MRP for there 18-55 EFS ISII ...soo the price you will get is around 9-10k

Now the deal have become bad coz u will end up spending 18+9k = 27k ...and u will get a new D5100+kit for 29.5-30k


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## raj_55555 (Mar 2, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> flipkart have gone nuts  even canon official website puts 13K as MRP for there 18-55 EFS ISII ...soo the price you will get is around 9-10k
> 
> Now the deal have become bad coz u will end up spending 18+9k = 27k ...and u will get a new D5100+kit for 29.5-30k



I called that guy, seemed rather rude. Wasn't answering my questions clearly enough, disconnected in the middle of the conversation. I guess it's better not to deal with him. I will keep an eye out for such deals, I am sure I'll get some.


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## raja manuel (Mar 2, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> Thanks. That pic was out of camera JPG, also sx30IS never supported RAW shooting (without using CHDK).



Yeah, that is what I meant. Have you tried to see what detail you can extract from the SX30IS Raw images using CHDK? Because I am sure that Matthias Besant shoots in Raw and post processes it to get it just right, rather than depending on standard picture style JPGs on his 550D. Even on my 600 with kit lens I am amazed at the amount of detail I can extract from an image when I use Raw rather than JPG though I am just playing around in DPP. This is why I suggested you do an apples to apples comparison against a DSLR, because you need to know whether a guy shooting the identical scene in JPG mode on his DSLR with a lens that doesn't cost as much as a car is going to make you drool at the level of detail compared to the SX30IS. Perhaps you can just search for SX30IS CHDK on Flickr to see if those images also take your breath away.



raj_55555 said:


> Your post makes sense, and I don't have any experience whatsoever in DSLRs. So just one straight forward question, is it possible to get DSLR quality details using bridge cameras?(read FZ200 or sx50hs). I would hate to regret my decision later!



The answer to this question depends on context, detail for what, and detail for how much. For instance, a photographer did a fashion shoot with an iPhone in 2010. If you study copyright disputes you find that low resolution images that we post on the web can easily be used for double spread magazine ads. Therefore, you need to ask yourself what 'DSLR quality details' amount to, when most people struggle to make out the difference when they don't know in advance what camera was used to take the pictures. As you can see from the write up in the link, the iPhone could be mistaken for a DSLR because of the amount of control the photographer had over the lighting, the way the model was made up, and many other factors that have nothing to do with the camera itself.

Coming to the question of detail for how much, here is a photo I took with my 600D from my balcony of a Kingfisher that stopped by my neighbour's garden (distance was about 8 metres):

Kingfisher - Full : Downscaled photo, just to show you how much the bird occupies in the frame at that distance with the 18-55mm lens at full zoom.
Kinfisher - Crop : This is a 100% crop from the full size image

The point here is, which gives more detail? The 100% crop from my 600D with its 3X kit lens, or an equally expensive Bridge camera with a 50X zoom lens (or even a much cheaper one with a 20X lens) which is zoomed all the way through? Will the far greater optical zoom on the Bridge beat the digital crop you get from the DSLR? I don't know the answer (never having tried this comparison myself) but this is the relevant question. You aren't Richie Rich, there is only so much you can afford, so within your financial capacity which will give you maximum bang for your buck? Back in the days when film cameras reigned supreme we didn't have these super zoom Bridge cameras or even medium zoom Compacts so the value proposition offered by DSLRs was obvious and compelling. Today the question is a lot more difficult to answer, and can be answered only by you taking into consideration the kind of photography you will actually end up doing.

Food for thought:
* DSLRs and their lenses are heavy, and a multi lens kit heavier still. Do you travel often by flight? Do you plan to hike long distances, particularly uphill, to get your shot?
* Places that charge for photography often charge more for DSLRs
* Some events, like motor races, limit the kind of camera you can bring based on length when lens is fully extended
* More and more places, like shopping malls, are banning DSLR photography

The best photographs I have taken (in terms of capturing the moment) are not from my 600D but from the good ol' 2.1 MP camera on my K750i, simply because it is always in my pocket. No one, absolutely no one, has ever looked at those photos and said, 'Oh, if only the lens had less chromatic aberration!' I am not denying that image quality matters, but beyond a certain point it matters only to guys like us who hang out on internet forums and pixel peep. We would criticise the Tank Man photo for being a bit soft and very grainy but the rest world, thankfully, sees it differently 



pranav0091 said:


> Agree with the points you make, but I find the EVF to be very distracting and not suited for manual focus (Which is a big reason why I bought a DSLR in the first place). Secondly my Canon has a slider which indicates on a scale the exposure of the image at the current settings, never found the need to use live view to gauge it. These points are debatable, I realise, but I found it much more comfortable to use the regular OVF of the canon over the very techy sony EVF. Just my two cents. And also try shooting multiple images with decent panning while using an EVF


Exposure simulation is not actually limited to just exposure. You also get your picture styles, white balance settings, etc., in it. Just imagine you install Magic Langtern for your 600D and you can use its manual shooting assists from the viewfinder against your eye rather than from the panel at the back. I agree that today's EVFs have many constraints compared to OVFs but the future is going to belong to EVFs because of the many other features that they can support. I too prefer the OVF but I think its days are numbered.



pranav0091 said:


> Yeah for macros its good to have the back LCD, again in my case the 600D has got the DOF button (oddly, I have never used it ) and a nice flip LCD over the Sony's ALT 37.
> 
> One more thing. I just took out my camera. I see why I never used the DOF button, because the viewfinder itself shows me how the image is going to be. Then why do we need the DOF button?



While the optical viewfinder does allow you to look through the lens, depth of field is dependent on the aperture setting and the aperture stops down only when the photo is taken; the aperture is fully open even during autofocus. Therefore I very much doubt that you are seeing depth of field for the _selected_ aperture setting, let alone bokeh (not the same thing!) through the viewfinder. You will have to press the DOF button to get the aperture to stop down manually if you want to see its effect through the viewfinder.


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## raj_55555 (Mar 2, 2013)

Raja Manuel said:


> Yeah, that is what I meant. Have you tried to see what detail you can extract from the SX30IS Raw images using CHDK? Because I am sure that Matthias Besant shoots in Raw and post processes it to get it just right, rather than depending on standard picture style JPGs on his 550D.


Actually I have been shooting RAW using the sx50hs (it supports RAW by default) and although the results are not astounding (maybe I am doing something wrong, following a lot of tutorials), I do understand what you mean.



Raja Manuel said:


> The answer to this question depends on context, detail for what, and detail for how much.
> ...
> Coming to the question of detail for how much, here is a photo I took with my 600D from my balcony of a Kingfisher that stopped by my neighbour's garden (distance was about 8 metres):
> 
> ...


To be honest I was thinking of stock photography in future; not for a living but for the experience of being on the same level as professionals and see how I grow as a photographer. The idea may seem a bit far fetched to some but I am a dreamer. I have read that the quality checks for the images are pretty stringent and maybe a bridge won't give "that" quality image.  

Having taken a lot of images using sx30IS and enough using sx50hs I know that the pic would have been much better using any super zoom bridge. The images were exactly the comparison I needed.

Having said that, you've really earned my respect with your writing skills and that extra effort in explaining the stuff. Do you blog often?
The iphone photoshoot was amazing and a real eye opener.




Raja Manuel said:


> Food for thought:
> * DSLRs and their lenses are heavy, and a multi lens kit heavier still. Do you travel often by flight? Do you plan to hike long distances, particularly uphill, to get your shot?


Another amazing point you brought up. I am really into trekking, in fact planning for Sandakphu later this year and a lighter camera might just help.  

So does that mean back to FZ200? Don't know, but I won't trouble you guys with my decision anymore. This has to be my decision.. Thanks Manuel, Sujoy and Pranav.


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## sujoyp (Mar 3, 2013)

how about putting a m4/3 in to the selection mix 

A EPM1+twin lens kit....its light on baggage and just notch less in quality then DSLR 

do check it


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## raj_55555 (Mar 3, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> how about putting a m4/3 in to the selection mix
> 
> A EPM1+twin lens kit....its light on baggage and just notch less in quality then DSLR
> 
> do check it



Great! Now even more frustration.. You are evil   Thanks again buddy.


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## sujoyp (Mar 3, 2013)

I could suggest it from the start itself but we were talking about Grip and OVF, EVF,VR etc 

Now you have lots n lots of choices at your budget


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## pranav0091 (Mar 3, 2013)

@raj: 

My vote is for the D3100


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## raja manuel (Mar 3, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> To be honest I was thinking of stock photography in future; not for a living but for the experience of being on the same level as professionals and see how I grow as a photographer. The idea may seem a bit far fetched to some but I am a dreamer. I have read that the quality checks for the images are pretty stringent and maybe a bridge won't give "that" quality image.



Dreams are what put a man on the moon. Go for it!

I don't know much about stock photography but I would guess that it is lighting that matters the most (as the iPhone shoot showed).



raj_55555 said:


> Having said that, you've really earned my respect with your writing skills and that extra effort in explaining the stuff. Do you blog often?



Hey, thanks! That's quite a compliment. I am an occasional blogger.



raj_55555 said:


> So does that mean back to FZ200? Don't know, but I won't trouble you guys with my decision anymore. This has to be my decision.. Thanks Manuel, Sujoy and Pranav.


You are very welcome. Don't hesitate to trouble us, though; we learn a lot from this interaction 



sujoyp said:


> how about putting a m4/3 in to the selection mix



This is a good suggestion. You will have to check the specifications carefully as manufacturers are offering several features as accessories to be able to claim that the base model is very compact, and check availability of accessories in India (assuming you shop here).


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## raj_55555 (Mar 3, 2013)

> This is a good suggestion. You will have to check the specifications carefully as manufacturers are offering several features as accessories to be able to claim that the base model is very compact, and check availability of accessories in India (assuming you shop here).


I have seen it's available on ebay at aroun 32k, so yeah it may be an option. 

@Pranav thanks buddy. If I am to get a DSLR I think I will get the D3200 (2nd hand) or d3100(new). Let's see.


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## macho84 (Apr 3, 2013)

raj_55555 said:


> I have seen it's available on ebay at aroun 32k, so yeah it may be an option.
> 
> @Pranav thanks buddy. If I am to get a DSLR I think I will get the D3200 (2nd hand) or d3100(new). Let's see.



I strongly suggest to go for canon 600d the best in class for entry level with amazing extension of lenses you could have. It all perception and as you wish but its my suggestion which i experienced.


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

I'm looking to get a DSLR. My budget is also under 30k. My friends have canon DSLR, so I'm also looking to get a canon model so that I can borrow lens with them. 
How is this deal for Canon 600D? Canon EOS 600D SLR(Black, with Kit EF-S18-55mm IS II Lens)-Manufacturer Warranty | eBay


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## pranav0091 (May 31, 2013)

Two words: Buy it.


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## sujoyp (May 31, 2013)

professor x if u and ur friend can exchange lenses in future then get a canon model...yes 600D is also very good...

that offer is good but he is not a power seller...soo see if u want to take risk


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## nac (May 31, 2013)

As sujoy suggested, get if from top seller. You can use coupons and get some more discount, try this seller


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

nac said:


> As sujoy suggested, get if from top seller. You can use coupons and get some more discount, try this seller



This seller has mentioned that 600D is without the lens kit. That one I mentioned above is bundled with EF-S18-55mm IS II lens.


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## nac (May 31, 2013)

Oops!!!
Try this seller


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

nac said:


> Oops!!!
> Try this seller



Thanks for the link. Well I'm also considering to use as a video recorder. How is 600D in terms of video recording? Does it record the inbuilt stereo sound and has microphone jack?


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## pranav0091 (May 31, 2013)

feedback rating of 98.2 vs 98.8, not much difference at all. And the guy has over 500 people recommending him, a number of them for cameras as well. I guess the guy is safe, and the price difference is good enough to warrant the slight risk.


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## sujoyp (May 31, 2013)

yaah 600D is good for video recording...but dont forget to buy the canon STM lenses specially developed for video recording...they are silent and quick


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> yaah 600D is good for video recording...but dont forget to buy the canon STM lenses specially developed for video recording...they are silent and quick



As I can see 700D has been launched. So should I expect the price drop of 650D to come around 30k?

By comparing with Nikon D5100. I am sort of confused.


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## nac (May 31, 2013)

Price drop to 30k... May be by the end of 2014 

D5100 is good for photography, but not for video recording.


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## sujoyp (May 31, 2013)

if video recording is even 20% important then too get canon...nikon lags in this


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> if video recording is even 20% important then too get canon...nikon lags in this



Tell me how great s video recording in Canon 600D? Does it records stereo sound and slow motion 240fps videos? How long a HD video can be recorded in it? Which lens come cheaper Nikkor or canon?

One more thing, how much is the price of an adapter that can make Canon lens compatible in Nikon DSLR?


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## pranav0091 (May 31, 2013)

Professor X said:


> Tell me how great s video recording in Canon 600D? Does it records stereo sound and slow motion 240fps videos? How long a HD video can be recorded in it?



For 240fps, you better have a budget thats much deeper than 30k, and probably better off buying dedicated video cameras. The best you can do with a 600D is the following:

• 1920 x 1080 (1080p, 16:9) @ 30/25/24 fps
• 1280 x 720 (720p, 16:9) @ 60/50 fps
• 640 x 480 (4:3) @ 60/50 fps
• Quicktime MOV format (H.264 compression, linear PCM audio)
• Up to 29 min 59 sec (or max file size 4 GB)

Camera captures mono, but you can capture streo with external microphones.

source: Canon Rebel T3i / EOS 600D Review: Digital Photography Review
also see: Canon Rebel T3i / EOS 600D Review: Digital Photography Review

Although this might interest you for casual needs:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbBMh4-NH-I


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

This means by using Adobe After Effects any video recorded at 1920x1080 60fps can be converted into a slow motion video? I have nexus 4 that does record 1080p video. Does that capable to make slow motion video? Please answer other questions above.



nac said:


> Price drop to 30k... May be by the end of 2014
> 
> D5100 is good for photography, but not for video recording.



I'm surprised to see that the price of 650D is more than new 700D.


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## nac (May 31, 2013)

BTB, what's the purpose of buying this camera? It seems like you are leaning too much towards video than photography...


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## Professor X (May 31, 2013)

nac said:


> BTB, what's the purpose of buying this camera? It seems like you are leaning too much towards video than photography...



Well I need more an all in one device. Quality of images would be great in all the DSLRs I know.


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## sujoyp (May 31, 2013)

I really think u should check panasonic fz200 ...it have lot of video options and pic quality is also good .....it can record  1920 x 1080 (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 1280 x 720p (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 640 x 480 (240, 120, 30, 25 fps)  with stereo sound..

The max I found in dslr is 60fps ...and remember u can not record more than 15mins in dslr...the sensor will heat up and if u regularly use it that way sensor may get damaged due to heat...


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## Professor X (Jun 1, 2013)

sujoyp said:


> I really think u should check panasonic fz200 ...it have lot of video options and pic quality is also good .....it can record  1920 x 1080 (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 1280 x 720p (60, 50, 30, 25 fps), 640 x 480 (240, 120, 30, 25 fps)  with stereo sound..
> 
> The max I found in dslr is 60fps ...and remember u can not record more than 15mins in dslr...the sensor will heat up and if u regularly use it that way sensor may get damaged due to heat...



Not more than 15 minutes OMG! This is why nobody do video recording with DSLRs. For image quality I think D5100 with 18-55 kit is great deal for 29k. I want to know how much is the price of an adapter that can make Canon lens compatible in Nikon DSLR?

If we compare 600D to D5100 speed which one takes images more stabilized and faster in less time?


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## sujoyp (Jun 1, 2013)

there is a reverse adapter for nikon lenses mount on canon...but havent heard what u wanted..
if lens is fast in focussing then its fast to click too...and sony have stabilisation in dslrs but nikon and canon have it on lenses.


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## pranav0091 (Jun 1, 2013)

Professor X said:


> Not more than 15 minutes OMG! This is why nobody do video recording with DSLRs. For image quality I think D5100 with 18-55 kit is great deal for 29k. I want to know how much is the price of an adapter that can make Canon lens compatible in Nikon DSLR?
> 
> If we compare 600D to D5100 speed which one takes images more stabilized and faster in less time?



Yes, that why you have video cameras. Why would they sell if DSLRs could do everything. You are looking at this wrong. Getting a Nikon camera snd then fitting Canon lenes on it because you like them is... weird (?/not very sound logic?) 
The 600D is equal if not slightly better than the D5100 at the same price. Live view is faster in the Nikon by a small but observable margin whereas the regular focussing is faster on the 600D by again a noticeable margin in many cases (in some cases I found the 5100D unable lock/taking too much time to lock focus when the canon could do it in less than 2 seconds. Note that these were low light situations). AFAIK there is no noticeable difference in the stabilization of the two cameras.

Check out the fz200 like Sujoy suggested, its a wonderful camera.


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## sujoyp (Jun 1, 2013)

The good thing in FZ200 is it can take nice slow motion in low light too if u want coz of f2.8


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## Professor X (Jun 1, 2013)

pranav0091 said:


> Yes, that why you have video cameras. Why would they sell if DSLRs could do everything. You are looking at this wrong. Getting a Nikon camera snd then fitting Canon lenes on it because you like them is... weird (?/not very sound logic?)
> The 600D is equal if not slightly better than the D5100 at the same price. Live view is faster in the Nikon by a small but observable margin whereas the regular focussing is faster on the 600D by again a noticeable margin in many cases (in some cases I found the 5100D unable lock/taking too much time to lock focus when the canon could do it in less than 2 seconds. Note that these were low light situations). AFAIK there is no noticeable difference in the stabilization of the two cameras.
> 
> Check out the fz200 like Sujoy suggested, its a wonderful camera.



Yes fitting Canon lenes in Nikon DSLR is weird and illogical idea. But the point is my friends having Canon lenses, occasionally I will borrow canon lenes from them.



sujoyp said:


> The good thing in FZ200 is it can take nice slow motion in low light too if u want coz of f2.8



How can a tiny censor of superzoom camera can take as good images as Canon 600D and Nikin D5100?


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## sujoyp (Jun 1, 2013)

no it cant take as good as a dslr but nor DSLR can take as good as a video camera  choice is urs

btw sony and canon r much better in video department in dslrs


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## pranav0091 (Jun 1, 2013)

Professor X said:


> Yes fitting Canon lenes in Nikon DSLR is weird and illogical idea. But the point is my friends having Canon lenses, occasionally I will borrow canon lenes from them.
> 
> 
> 
> How can a tiny censor of superzoom camera can take as good images as Canon 600D and Nikin D5100?



Okay, then get a Canon DSLR. TBH, one doesnt really shoot videos in Full HD (creative ones atleast) continuously for hours. Its shot in sections after a lot of planning and stuff like that. On the other hand , if your aim is to record family events and stuff then you dont really need the fine-controls afforded by a DSLR and will do much better with a proper handycam. If your interests are somewhere in between, then look at the fz200

Btw, just got reminded of the sony A series of DSLRs. We, people here generally dont recommend it for the simple reason that they dont have a optical viewfinder. But they are definitely the fastest focusing Live-view cameras I have seen. So fast that they are nearly as fast as the other DSLRs' regular focusing. Might want to take a look at the A37.


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## Professor X (Jun 2, 2013)

pranav0091 said:


> Okay, then get a Canon DSLR. TBH, one doesnt really shoot videos in Full HD (creative ones atleast) continuously for hours. Its shot in sections after a lot of planning and stuff like that. On the other hand , if your aim is to record family events and stuff then you dont really need the fine-controls afforded by a DSLR and will do much better with a proper handycam. If your interests are somewhere in between, then look at the fz200
> 
> Btw, just got reminded of the sony A series of DSLRs. We, people here generally dont recommend it for the simple reason that they dont have a optical viewfinder. But they are definitely the fastest focusing Live-view cameras I have seen. So fast that they are nearly as fast as the other DSLRs' regular focusing. Might want to take a look at the A37.



Ok! I understand. The DSLR can't be used a some handycam. This is why handycams are made. Now forget the shooting videos. My main motive is photography that performs great blur free, sharp and great picture quality in low-light. If I am spending so much I want something future proof like DSLR in which I can learn photography and in future, buy some other lenses in future.


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## nac (Jun 2, 2013)

I guess you now know the choices you have. Pick the one you like...


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## pranav0091 (Jun 3, 2013)

Professor X said:


> Ok! I understand. The DSLR can't be used a some handycam. This is why handycams are made. Now forget the shooting videos. My main motive is photography that performs great blur free, sharp and great picture quality in low-light. If I am spending so much I want something future proof like DSLR in which I can learn photography and in future, buy some other lenses in future.



My take would be a 600D (if you can find it under 30k and not more than 2k pricier than a D5100) with stock lens + 50 mm prime. I am adding the 50mm prime ONLY because you might be disappointed by the low light performance of the stock lens. 

Although my prime suggestion would be that you buy the DSLR, shoot pics *ONLY using the stock lens* in the manual mode, this is to get acquainted with the camera (especially the info within the optical viewfinder) and its idiosyncrasies and more importantly to learn the art of composition and stuff like that. Its only when you are constrained by your gear that you realise how to get the best out of them and appreciate the reason why other lenses or stuff like that exist. This is just my take on photography, but one I strongly advocate to anyone new to photography/DSLRs. The habits that you form early here stay with you till the end. Better gear may or may not give visibly better results, but you can be sure as hell that a better photographer can beat the crap out of a mediocre one with infinite money/gear. 

Also take a look here:
CameraSim simulates a digital SLR camera - SLR Photography Demystified


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## sujoyp (Jun 3, 2013)

yaah pranav is right....get a 50mm lens for photography and video recording...its fast in focussing then 18-55 and have great low light capabilities


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## Professor X (Jun 3, 2013)

Since it is my first DSLR. Should I get without lens (body only) and get 50mm lens or get it with 18-55mm. I read many places the performance of 18-55mm doesn't clarify how great is the DSLR.


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## pranav0091 (Jun 3, 2013)

Nope. It is a very good lens, just that there are better lenses out there. Start with the 18-55 kit lens. I still use it as my only lens after 6 months. 

If you would not mind some self promotion, every single one of the pictures in my Flickr set were taken with the 18-55 stock


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## sujoyp (Jun 3, 2013)

18-55 is a good wide angle lens....if used properly it can give good pictures...I used it for 2 years but now shifted to tamron 17-50 ..although I still miss the VR on 18-55


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## Professor X (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok, l cleared all my queries and decided I've to get a DSLR camera with 18-55mm lens kit. The only thing I have to decide whether to get Nikon D5100 or Canon 600D. On the papers D5100 is superior. It has inbuilt HDR feature too just like my Nexus 4 phone. It really improves the finale image quality of the picture. Canon lacks this feature.

Both of them costing me about 29k rupees.


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## pranav0091 (Jun 3, 2013)

Professor X said:


> Ok, l cleared all my queries and decided I've to get a DSLR camera with 18-55mm lens kit. The only thing I have to decide whether to get Nikon D5100 or Canon 600D. On the papers D5100 is superior. It has inbuilt HDR feature too just like my Nexus 4 phone. It really improves the finale image quality of the picture. Canon lacks this feature.
> 
> Both of them costing me about 29k rupees.



Since your friends have Canon I recommend the 600D. Also because the D5100 isnt any cheaper. so


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## Professor X (Jun 3, 2013)

pranav0091 said:


> Since your friends have Canon I recommend the 600D. Also because the D5100 isnt any cheaper. so



No, D5100 still cheap available for 29k NIKON D5100 DSLR CAMERA 18-55MM VR LENS 2YEAR NIKON INDIA WARRANTY BRAND NEW SEA | eBay

How is this adapter thing? camera body lens converter adapter Canon EOS to NIKON | eBay

Can you tell me a list of disadvantages of getting Nikon D5100 over Canon 600D? From above I read videos of Canon is better but what else?


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## pranav0091 (Jun 3, 2013)

Professor X said:


> No, D5100 still cheap available for 29k NIKON D5100 DSLR CAMERA 18-55MM VR LENS 2YEAR NIKON INDIA WARRANTY BRAND NEW SEA | eBay
> 
> How is this adapter thing? camera body lens converter adapter Canon EOS to NIKON | eBay
> 
> Can you tell me a list of disadvantages of getting Nikon D5100 over Canon 600D? From above I read videos of Canon is better but what else?



Dont buy that adapter. No auto, No focus at infinity. Big trouble.

I personally feel that the Canon here has a slight edge over the Nikon in terms of (Non live-view) focus speed and accuracy. Also my conclusion is that the 600D has better high ISO performance,even though its widely believed to be the other way round.


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## sujoyp (Jun 3, 2013)

Comon pranav u r a 600D owner ...   .....But this time I surely belive u better get 600D coz ur friend have canon and 2nd it have better video recording (which u always wanted from start)


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## raja manuel (Jun 3, 2013)

If you want video, add Magic Lantern to the 600D to get the functionality of a much more expensive camera (assuming you are interested in going deep into video).


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## rider (Jun 7, 2013)

The price of Panasonic FZ200 has been dropped a little on ebay.in right now. It is costing 28k bucks now. Also there is new updated model by Sony has been launched HX300 with unbelievable 50x optical zoom for 21800 on flipkart. Any idea about the performance of both these bridge cameras.


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## nac (Jun 7, 2013)

Ever since it's launch it's hovering around 28-29k... 

It's really surprising to see that price from flipkart.  HX300 is recently launched camera. Not many reviews out there.


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## rider (Jun 7, 2013)

nac said:


> Ever since it's launch it's hovering around 28-29k...
> 
> It's really surprising to see that price from flipkart.  HX300 is recently launched camera. Not many reviews out there.


 Most probably HX300 has better image quality than HX200V.


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