# Forum Name : Open Source or Free Software



## firewall (Mar 2, 2005)

Hi all,

I strongly believe that this room's should be renamed as Free Software. Most of the topics and discussions are on FREE Software and the Free Software movement. So why open Source. ????

What about the Mods of this forums ? What they think about this. Wll i mean thOSE Mods who are really serious and regular in this forum and who really believes in Freedom..  LOL



a.m


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## DKant (Mar 2, 2005)

Quite right. This forum, atleast, should do its part in resolving the confusion between Open Source and Freedomware. I second it. 

P.S: U shld have started a poll buddy.


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## GNUrag (Mar 2, 2005)

I have been insisting on this point right from the day this forum section was created.


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## firestarter (Mar 2, 2005)

Always FREE SOFTWARE. For further explanation visit gnu.org


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## mail2and (Mar 2, 2005)

but open source will cover larger part of the software... for eg- scripts like vbulletin and ipb(since 2.0.1) are paid software but still are classified under open source..... also if u name it 'FREE SOFTWARE' expect all those n00bs asking for keygens and all kinds of non-related queries....


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## klinux (Mar 2, 2005)

free software in general also includes ones which are given out free with windows right , and also include apps with advts in it , given for free . i think free software name would confuse a lot ,while everyone knows open source is for linux , gnu and others . u can name it open source/gnu/linux/free as in freedom section , but ppl will get confused on a name change . i dont see a lot of posts meant for open source being posted else where . instead , if we could have subtopics like the one in pcq , where we can have a troubleshooting , installation , suse , debian , fedora etc sections , might be more helpful . i still think gnu's sticky on topics covered should be expanded into subtopics , since it might be easier for him to handle them too


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## firestarter (Mar 3, 2005)

mail2and said:
			
		

> but open source will cover larger part of the software... for eg- scripts like vbulletin and ipb(since 2.0.1) are paid software but still are classified under open source..... also if u name it 'FREE SOFTWARE' expect all those n00bs asking for keygens and all kinds of non-related queries....



But you are making mistake between *FREEWARE* and *FREE SOFTWARE*. They are completely deferent.

Visit www.gnu.org please

I quote Free Software Foundation


> The term ``*freeware*'' has no clear accepted definition, but it is commonly used for packages which permit redistribution but not modification (and their source code is not available). These packages are not free software, so please don't use ``freeware'' to refer to free software.



and


> *Free software* is software that comes with permission for anyone to use, copy, and distribute, either verbatim or with modifications, either gratis or for a fee. In particular, this means that source code must be available. ``If it's not source, it's not software.'' This is a simplified definition





-_-_PEACE_-_-


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## firewall (Mar 3, 2005)

klinux said:
			
		

> ....while everyone knows open source is for linux , gnu and others .



I strongly differ. What do you mean by "Everyone". is that you , or me or some one else.. buddy you just cant make this kind of irresponsible comment. sorry if i am rude. 

Because there are lots of people around who know what is Free Software and what is Open Source. Not only that lots of people use either free or open source  or both of them only. They dont use proprietary software. So you just cant say everyone. And for your  " Everyone",  what they know is wrong.. Linux - the kernel is Free not Opensource as its released under GNU/GPL, GNU has nothing to do with Open Source.


So buddy  lets try to know the truth... there is no harm in it.


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## firestarter (Mar 3, 2005)

Hey !! I just forget to quote



> The term ``open source'' software is used by some people to mean more or less the same thing as free software. However, their criteria are somewhat lax; they accept some license restrictions that we consider too restrictive.
> 
> We prefer the term ``free software'' because it refers to freedom--something that the term ``open source'' does not do.


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## klinux (Mar 3, 2005)

firewall said:
			
		

> klinux said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know my posts can be long , but is it that hard to read the whole sentence before coming to conclusions .  Read the Whole DAMN thing is all i got to say . 

" i think free software name would confuse a lot ,while everyone knows open source is for linux , gnu and others ." 
Note the FREE SOFTWARE NAME as in threads name would confuse a lot , while everyone knows open source NAME is for linux , gnu and others . Man do i have to spell out everything . READ THE WHOLE SENTENCE . its called a sentence koz all the words are related . Get It !!!

U keep the threads name as FREE SOFTWARE , u think people might think of linux first ? or is OPEN SOURCE linked more towards linux /gnu and stuff . and by everyone i didnt mean my neighbours and my ex girlfriends , I meant people browsing digit forums , who else is gonna read this forum and use the forum ???? or r u planning to publish the forum in leading newspapers . u want me to list out the members of the forum by their niks . One thing i hate abt this linux / open source movement is people bashing others around on technicality . heck some people just dont wanna know abt the gpl and gnu movement and just wanna use a damn OS . 

One of the first interviews RMS gave to LFY , he said he wanted the mags name changed to GNU or GNU / Linux . I read abt it a bit more and now know why he wanted that change . Similarly , people link the NAME open source to linux gnu and STUFF ( i added this so that there wont be a cry from freebsd users ) . God some people will do anything in life . For people wanting to uphold truth , a lot of them sure find an easy , kozy spot online or in forums to speak the truth , but in real life , god knows how they behave . sometimes feel SOME ( NOTICE "SOME" b4 replying ) linux CORE advocates are some sorta cult mentality u know with RMS as ur GOD lol HAIL RMS !!!

anyways . Hope i am clear on this . or should i go on .


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## firestarter (Mar 3, 2005)

Okay..go on.... Explain yourself. What you exactly want !!

We dont know where a sentence ends, we know the start and we dont read full sentences.

All we want to let all the people know that Linux is FLOSS  and I do agree with you that people out here in the FLOSS comunity are shouting too much on the thing they should call it 

Lets enjoy the power of linux and continue this thread. But I still feel, people must know what are the real *terms*. *thinkdigit* is a powerfull forum and most of the compumaniacs in India tend to come here. So we felt, all should know the thinking they have put. Afterall, they made it. We must know the their causes, their thinking. It is somthing like reading *history*.

We are not here to flame each other. We are here to share our knowledge. 

No confusion will be made if we rename it to "Free Software" , because people in India loves the term "FREE" 

It will get us more and more people in this linux comunity.

-_-PEACE-_-PEACE-_-


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## klinux (Mar 3, 2005)

" because people in India loves the term "FREE" "

lol . when i use a general term like "everyone" to describe people in the forum knowing abt linux , i get bashed , but here all people in india loves free , so they know free software section is for linux ??? lol 

I was told never to play with fire , now i got 2 for the price of one lol . 

well like u said , most people spend time on technicality , instead of spreading the real word abt the OS . thats the problem with linux in a way . its not user friendly . i dont mean GUI , but the friendliness of the people who try to spread the word abt it . They seem to be in their own world . Heck i couldnt stand some of the people in chennai linux users groups , so left it . If the people who advocate opensoure/linux/gnu ........ dont try to understand others , theres gonna be a hard time spreading the word . Read an article once where a tech author was reviewing a linux distro and he pointed out that a new sound card worked gr8 on an old 95 system but failed on a new linux distro . he got a lot of hate mail ( and i thought MOST linux users were peace loving lol ) , one even suggested author should write his own device drivers , to which author said simply , why should he ???? . 

u guys need to understand that just because its FREE and people love FREE , u cant force them to take it up or follow ur rules blindly . that would make u no different from the mega corps . So just be a bit more tolerant on people trying to make a switch . 

One of the early FIREs stated that 

"The term ``open source'' software is used by some people to mean more or less the same thing as free software. However, their criteria are somewhat lax; they accept some license restrictions that we consider too restrictive."

whats with the WE here ??? r u trying to make this thread only for OPEN SOURCE LINUX USERS and banish anyone who puts a licensed piece of software in the thread ? i think i had to accept a license once for using Java in pcqlin 2k4 , so does that mean that posts regarding pcqlin 2k4 will not be entertained here ?????? . Lemme make one think clear , For now , changing the name is gonna confuse a lot of people , and going into technicality on license and stuff is gonna cause more headache for people and they might never switch over to linux and might even go back to the empire . 

remember what happened to aniken skywalker , inspite of being on the jedi's side in the first two episodes ?? he not only switches to the Dark side but also becomes one of its ruthless leaders . thats the last thing u want to happen to linux . I agree linux is a good piece of software and will benefit users , But try to change the way to bring out and present linux to the people . 

its like asking an ukg student to learn hard core geometry . if u remember back in ur school days , do u remember fond memories of the teacher who explained stuff to u well and didnt force u at each mistake u made or u remember the scary teach who pointed out each and every mistake in ur writing or reading , without even allowing u to finish . Now tell me WHICH is the best way to teach people ?????????? 

If u look at linux , all are students of UKG in a sense and u guys weret appointed , but have taken ur time to volunteer to help spread linux . thats a good thing and appreciated .  but u got to learn to be more careful with ur students . 

To sum it all up : take things slowly , dont force too much on linux users at once . teaching anything is a long process , which will take time and mistakes bound to happen . u have to learn to tolerate too since u have knowingly or unknowingly taken the responsibilities of a teacher . except in the linux school u have a higher probability of drop outs . now we wouldnt want that now would we ???


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## firestarter (Mar 3, 2005)

Do you think that by asking people to vote on whether they want this thread to be renamed as Free Software, we the FIREs will make people "force too much on linux users at once " !!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

I dont think so my friend. We love it and we want to spread it, we are not teachers, we are linux lovers. And we dont want drop outs, we need more heads.

And I dont think there is "a higher probability of drop outs" as We never argue with new interested one, rather we discuss it here. 
And more and more people are willing to even learn it here. Cant say what happens at your place.

And this thread will never confuse them if they/we are determind to learn and learn to love.

*_*PEACE*_*PEACE*_*


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## klinux (Mar 3, 2005)

oh HECK . i dont vote in this forum and didnt even know they had a poll here . The Process of finding faults in peoples interpretation of linux / gnu / free software is the one which is going to cause problems for linux being taken up by people . GET IT NOW ??????????????????? 

they say love is blind . i didnt know it was the same way for love for linux too  . people learn , u teach , hence teachers in a way , not literally teachers with bold specs and stick in hand . 
if it wont confuse , why havent u been able to change the name of the forum from open source as yet ??? not enuf love ???????


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2005)

How the heck did you know that I wore specs 


> if it wont confuse , why havent u been able to change the name of the forum from open source as yet ??? not enuf love ???????



See my post count and yours. By the way, had I been owner of this forum, I would have already done that.

And one thing for sure if we devote ourself to an ideal... We dont  become something else  

*_*PEACE*_*PEACE*_*


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## firestarter (Mar 4, 2005)

Just forgot to login  Sorry about that


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## klinux (Mar 4, 2005)

I can see that all ur vision is a bit deviated  so guess the specs part , plus the part where only part of what i wrote / typed was replied too  

Gnurag and a few others too headed the campaign to change the name , as soon as it started and he is old enuf to be a MOD , well he is infact . thats why the above statement  EXPLAINED enuf ? another interesting thing is instead of spreading the word on linux , of the first things u do in the forum is want or propose a name change ?? this is like a new CM in a state wanting to change the name of the capital for no apparent reason , while leaving development and infrastructure on the back seat . 

if u devote urself to an ideal and u dont see change , u havent learnt or experienced anything . If a windows users devotes himself to lin ? does he stay the same ? . if thats the case , why switch then ? btw , u know which gr8 sage wrote my siggy ?

Coming back to the issue . The thread has been started to clear ppls doubts and queries on vast range of subjects not related to ms and other s/w right . arent we already getting queries on those subjects here ? at the moment , people are aware that they can post their queries related to those subjects here . so when it aint broke , why fix it ?????

Plus : i dont think u forgot to log in , Dig site is apparently logging people off for some reason from yesterday , already posted abt this in thinkdigit.com review thread


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## pradeep_chauhan (Mar 4, 2005)

Such heated debates about a name? Did someone once say "would a rose by another name smell less sweet" (or words to this effect) come on guys your energy is required for solving many major problems in the world. I personaly feel a name is a name is a name that all so lets go on.


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## tuxfan (Mar 4, 2005)

All "free" software is open source, but all open source software is not necessarily "free" software. 

So if the section is named as open source, it covers more softwares.

Additionally, at least 75% of the people here (and 90% of all) wouldn't know what exectly is "free" software. They will be more familiar with what is Open Source. So let it be known by a term which more people will understand.

Secondly, if it is named free software, people will start posting for freewares and will not understand that this section is for freedomware. Do we want as much spam as General Discussion here?


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## klinux (Mar 4, 2005)

pradeep_chauhan said:
			
		

> come on guys your energy is required for solving many major problems in the world.


this is actually how techies/geeks relax,  in a way , when they take a break from saving the world  .


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## firewall (Mar 4, 2005)

tuxfan said:
			
		

> All "free" software is open source, but all open source software is not necessarily "free" software.



Well said a.m  Why not let others know this. The Difference and defintions and above all the movement behind this. GNU/LINUX is not just a OS like others.. Its something more than that. 



			
				tuxfan said:
			
		

> dditionally, at least 75% of the people here (and 90% of all) wouldn't know what exectly is "free" software.



Let them know the truth. They have a misconception , care to break that. 

and the first step of that is renaming of this room.


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## DKant (Mar 4, 2005)

^ Exactly.


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## tuxfan (Mar 5, 2005)

firewall said:
			
		

> Let them know the truth. They have a misconception , care to break that and the first step of that is renaming of this room.



No sir, it should not be renamed for three reasons.

First, this section is not about "free" software but also covered other OSS. That seems to be the intention of forum admins. Why restrict it only to freedomware?

Second, as I said, it will restrict itself only to "free" software. Where do the people using other OSS go? They will surely come in this section only without understanding the technicalities. So renaming doesn't serve any purpose.

Third, there will be lots of spam from people wanting to know about other freewares :roll: you can't sit explaining to everyone that this one is about freedomware and not freeware  Mods will get tired moving those threads to the right section and will also get tired in explaining the reason 

As for educating people, if we are so sure about it, lets request Digit to carry an article on the same in its mag or keep it online on its site. Alternatively, write and keep an article in laymen's terms in one of the sites that we have access to and post the link here in "General Discussion" :roll: That one seems to be the most visited section


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## DKant (Mar 8, 2005)

> ..lets request Digit to carry an article on the same in its mag...



Yea, a separate section dedicated to freedomware in the mag would be good. Really good. 

But I don't think it's gonna happen. At least not as long as Di9it is in 'expansion' mode.


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## tuxfan (Mar 9, 2005)

The request is not for a separate section on freedomware. Its only about *an article* on freedomware and various available licences. So I don't think Digit should have any problem with that. Actually, they have a topic for their mag article and have to think about one topic less


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## GNUrag (Mar 9, 2005)

Well as for the name goes, Its a very small number of applications which are legally * OpenSource * and not * Free Software *.. In percentage that might come out to be somewhere in 1% or maybe lesser.

Rest all software are legally * Free Software * and by their licensing they are GPL or MIT or BSD or some other Free License..., but their authors detest the term Free Software and prefer to use OpenSource instead.

So the point that naming the forum OpenSource because it covers both Free Software and OpenSource software is meaningless since there's hardly any software which is just OpenSource and not Free Software.

The term OpenSource is a marketting gimmik and we should understand it. By the defination of OpenSource, one does not get as much freedom and power of creativity as can be had with FreeSoftware term... (ps: i'm talking about the legal meaning of the two terms, in terms of their licensing)

If people do not know about the difference then they have to be told that. One needs to tell the difference between the licensing differences between them.


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## klinux (Mar 10, 2005)

now its getting crazy lol . GNU u state that ones creativity limited with open source , but not with FREEDOM SOFTWARE (lets use this to distinguish it better) . But stallman started it all so that code could be and should be shared with others right ?? and based on open code , people can use their creative ideas and implement them ? so how do u say open source is  hinderance to creativity ??? . another thing . i think if ur sticking to a name stick to FREEDOM s/w or FREEDOM Ware , koz i think thats they msg ur trying to bring out right ? , plus who said linux is free in monetary terms ????? u pay for the net connection to download huge files , u pay to buy mags to get the software even . so unless the linux/gnu/open source guys themselves , kome with a better and more convenient method to spread the real meaning of linux , stick to the old name . 

regarding open source being small portion of the pie , arent most important parts of linux / gnu open source ??? should we look at percentage of open source or the usefulness of open source ???


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## tuxfan (Mar 10, 2005)

GNUrag said:
			
		

> Well as for the name goes, Its a very small number of applications which are legally * OpenSource * and not * Free Software *.. In percentage that might come out to be somewhere in 1% or maybe lesser.
> 
> ..................
> 
> So the point that naming the forum OpenSource because it covers both Free Software and OpenSource software is meaningless since there's hardly any software which is just OpenSource and not Free Software.



Even if its only 1%, why exclude them?



			
				GNUrag said:
			
		

> Rest all software are legally * Free Software * and by their licensing they are GPL or MIT or BSD or some other Free License..., but their authors detest the term Free Software and prefer to use OpenSource instead.
> 
> .................
> 
> The term OpenSource is a marketting gimmik



Can you guess why they prefer to name it that way? I feel simply because the term "Open Source" is more popular and stays away from the confusion with FREEWARE. That is why I would prefer to let it remain as it is  And you will surely agree that marketing is no longer just a gimmick. It surely does a lot for the products.

I will think about it from a different view. If just by calling these softwares as Open Source it become more attractive and more people adopt it, ultimately the free software movement is the gainer. We can continue with educating the people later.

I will take my own example. I was only aware of Linux being open source and "freeware" and got attracted to it. Later I was educated on the what actually is free software. Thanks to you, Nagarjun and Firewall  So we can keep that education for a later date, first lets attract more and more people to it


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## ujjwal (Mar 10, 2005)

Hmm ... despite playing with Linux for quite a while now ... I do not know the exact difference between the two terms.

So anyway ... its a name yaar ... why bother? 

I actually would have preferred dividing "Software" Into "Windows9x/NT", "Unix/Linux/*nix" and "Applications". But this is fine as well, as it provides a base for other open source software as well


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## drgrudge (Mar 12, 2005)

We all think open source is all about related to linux and GNU, by changing the forum name, we can change that attitude...


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## GNUrag (Mar 17, 2005)

Ah, i wanted to write a good reply but didn't have time on hand.. anyways..



			
				klinux said:
			
		

> now its getting crazy lol . GNU u state that ones creativity limited with open source , but not with FREEDOM SOFTWARE (lets use this to distinguish it better) .


klinux see it closely... i am talking about FreeSoftware and OpenSource software in connection with their licensing agreements. OpenSource software , as per its technical defination, does not allow redistribution of modified copies. Restricting the redistribution of modified sources kills creativity. There's nothing to laugh about it.!



			
				klinux said:
			
		

> But stallman started it all so that code could be and should be shared with others right ?? and based on open code , people can use their creative ideas and implement them ? so how do u say open source is  hinderance to creativity ???


creativity and all that is okay.. But the OpenSource Defination per-se hinders creativity.



			
				klinux said:
			
		

> . another thing . i think if ur sticking to a name stick to FREEDOM s/w or FREEDOM Ware , koz i think thats they msg ur trying to bring out right ?


That is one valid suggestion. Merely saying Free Software would make a average college student think about Proprietary FreeWares ... But remember, That is just one user group who use computers... There are dozens of other category of people who can and have been easily explained the difference between them.




			
				klinux said:
			
		

> , plus who said linux is free in monetary terms ?????


I didn't... never...



			
				klinux said:
			
		

> so unless the linux/gnu/open source guys themselves , kome with a better and more convenient method to spread the real meaning of linux , stick to the old name .


And keep the misinformation spreading.... 
IMHO, its better to start right now, than keep thinking about the right time to come.



			
				klinux said:
			
		

> regarding open source being small portion of the pie , arent most important parts of linux / gnu open source ??? should we look at percentage of open source or the usefulness of open source ???


That's what i am saying... All Free Software is OpenSource... but all OpenSource software is not free software..

The software that comes with GPL/MIT/BSD/APL/SPL/ whatever public license is a Free Software... And its just a tiny group of software which is OpenSource with respect to its licensing... 
One software that i remember is * PINE *.. PINE is an OpenSource software and you cannot redistribute the modified sources or binaries... I can hardly remember any other OpenSource software.




			
				tuxfan said:
			
		

> If just by calling these softwares as Open Source it become more attractive and more people adopt it, ultimately the free software movement is the gainer. We can continue with educating the people later.


When will that later come? Better start right now than waiting for all the new comers to understand the difference..


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## BONZI (Mar 17, 2005)

I prefer the way it is now. There were some good points made from both sides. The topic has been taken to extreme ends. But lets not make it complex. Out of 5000 ppl here for 4500 ppl 'Free software' means something that you will get without paying anything. Why should we confuse those ppl??? Let them spam at general discussion.  . And ofcourse GNUrag from your part I'm sure you will have to spend lot more time cleaning the board  For many windows still rulez. Let it rule them . 


If you have any plan to change the name. Plz post a couple of threads [sticky] explaining what free software means. And this forum is not for the jacks of cracks [or crack jacks]


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## klinux (Mar 18, 2005)

ok To Gnu , the couple of fires and all in favour of name change . Just define the opensource or free s/w or linux in terms of explaining to a child , even use animation , artwork or good analogies (not the free beer thing again ) and maybe , just maybe everyone could live peacefully instead of raking their heads on this subject . unfortunately linux and gpl and the whole bunch wasnt covered in my 12th comp sci nor in my MCA , so please , as u would a child , explain it clearly , so that we dont OFFEND others . Another thing , u MUST take the responsibility of a teacher too , as thats exactly what ur doing , teaching and enlightening others . Remember teachers always want the whole class to pass out and dont concentrate on a few . So whether u like it or not u are teachers and have a responsibility , so making us  mugging and vomitting the gpl and other stuff by heart isnt good . giving the link to gpl and making us read it too isnt good . Plus hearing the plusses and minuses (if these are words  ) of the WHOLE PACKAGE from u will be good . koz we expect u guys , unlike BIG corps , to be honest abt everything and not follow stuff blindly . So hope i made things clear . If u took the time to explain it once ,in laymans terms with examples and humour too . it would be the best and easiest way to get the message across . so going back and forth on a few points alone wont help , unless they are explained . i know u cant spoon feed each an every line , but a basic idea would be good start


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## tuxfan (Mar 18, 2005)

GNUrag said:
			
		

> When will that later come? Better start right now than waiting for all the new comers to understand the difference..


That "later" will come when there is a mass adoption of the "free" software. As of now instead of burdening an average user (who just wants his work done and cares a hoot about these technicalities) just tempt him to use these softwares in place of propritory ones. That is one place where more energy and resources need to be spent.


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