# Are gaming consoles coming to an end?



## sam9s (Aug 24, 2016)

The title says it all, what do fellow members have to say here ..

PlayStation Now brings Sony games to Windows PC this fall - CNE



> Several months ago, Microsoft announced that when you buy future Xbox games, you'll be able to play them both on Windows 10 machines as well as on the Xbox One -- that's strike one for gaming consoles.
> 
> And it was just announced: Coming this fall you'll be able to play PlayStation 3 games on your Windows PC or tablet via the internet with Sony's streaming game service, PlayStation Now. Granted, these aren't the newest PlayStation 4 games, but to me this is a huge move by Sony. Not only is it a way to introduce non-PlayStation owners to their games on a PC and untether gamers from their big screen TVs, but it could potentially lead to more future games being available online without the console. Now that's strike two against consoles.
> 
> So let me ask you this, with two big console players offering their games on PCs, is the writing on the wall for gaming consoles? Or, is it just the company's way of expanding their audience and reach to make their games accessible without the use of a console? Given this announcement by Sony to bring their games online, are you buying in and willing to try them on your Windows PC, or are sticking it out with a console? Share your thoughts. I look forward to reading your thoughts.


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## warfreak (Aug 24, 2016)

No. Consoles have a niche market of their own. There are a whole lot of people who are overwhelmed by the very idea of "assembling" a gaming PC. Also, the cost associated with PC hardware assembly is always high. So you have consoles. Dedicated for the sole purpose of gaming. Just plug in your TV and internet, mount your game DVD(or download from store or both) and you are set.

What we are looking at here is "convergence". They will soon evolve into streaming boxes that we are seeing nowadays with Steam, Nvidia, Apple, Amazon, Sony, Microsoft and others pushing their own streaming devices.

For this very reason, gaming consoles will not go away. On the other hand, it will be even more saturated with all the major tech from Microsoft to Sony (Even Amazon and Google) dabbling in the console market.


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## gameranand (Aug 30, 2016)

Lets see.
There was a time when it was said for PC gaming that it come to end, given so many exclusives on the consoles. But PC survived it anyway and now many exclusives are coming to PC well.
Now if you talk about consoles, the same theory exists, people buy it because they don't any BS or anything that comes with PC. Just plug and play, almost all games will run nicely on your console as it has been tested on the same device that you are using. Same hardware is everywhere so testing gets easier for the developers. With PC there are more number of combinations so optimization is sometimes not upto the mark. So you see console gamer's don't just buy for exclusives but for easy setup as well. 

Now we are seeing the trend that exclusives are not exclusives anymore. Devs are exploring the other platforms, but you see PC is kind of in the middle. Any PS exclusive will come to PC before Xbox because well they are kind of rivals. PC is common ground and so PC is seeing exclusives from both the sides. Also with MP, now Devs want a larger base and so crossplatform MP is the way to go and many Devs are liking this idea. And thus we are getting exclusives from the those sides.

Both console and PC will continue to live. I hope with harmony and not PCMR BS that console gamers are noob, we are pro. No not that thing, with harmony. Though I am not really sure how the internet might think about that.


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## Gollum (Aug 30, 2016)

Games and PC hardware is getting developed at such a high rate that Console makers are finding it hard to keep up.

In a case where the devs are given the freedom to make high res maps for a PC, they cannot do so on a console as it does not have the power to handle all that data.
On the other hand, not everyone can buy or build a fast gaming PC.

In India however, Kids can easily get a 50000 rupee Laptop but not a 30000 rupee console.

So PC wins in India.


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## Hrishi (Aug 30, 2016)

I really don't think a powerful PC is difficult to build in India at mainstream price. Considering how the next gen CPUs/GPUs have evolved at affordable rates. 

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk


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## axes2t2 (Aug 30, 2016)

warfreak said:


> No. Consoles have a niche market of their own. There are a whole lot of people who are overwhelmed by the very idea of "assembling" a gaming PC. *Also, the cost associated with PC hardware assembly is always high.* So you have consoles. Dedicated for the sole purpose of gaming. Just plug in your TV and internet, mount your game DVD(or download from store or both) and you are set.
> 
> What we are looking at here is "convergence". They will soon evolve into streaming boxes that we are seeing nowadays with Steam, Nvidia, Apple, Amazon, Sony, Microsoft and others pushing their own streaming devices.
> 
> For this very reason, gaming consoles will not go away. On the other hand, it will be even more saturated with all the major tech from Microsoft to Sony (Even Amazon and Google) dabbling in the console market.



Wrong.


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## Desmond (Aug 30, 2016)

I don't think consoles are going away any time soon. Consoles is where mainstream gaming is right now and subsequently also where the money is considering that it's extremely difficult to pirate games on consoles.

However, PCs are becoming a safer platform as well thanks to anti-crack tech such as Denuvo.


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## warfreak (Aug 30, 2016)

axes2t2 said:


> Wrong.



Care to elaborate?


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## Nerevarine (Aug 30, 2016)

You did not factor in the cost of a TV, Playstation plus/Xbox Live subscription and the general high cost of a console game..

Chances are, people already have or are planning to buy a PC, whether its a desktop or a laptop. If they spend a bit more for a better GPU and PSU, it would easily outperform a console


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## SaiyanGoku (Aug 30, 2016)

Nerevarine said:


> You did not factor in the cost of a TV, Playstation plus/Xbox Live subscription and the general high cost of a console game..
> 
> Chances are, people already have or are planning to buy a PC, whether its a desktop or a laptop. If they spend a bit more for a better GPU and PSU, it would easily outperform a console



If all costs remain the same, 30k-35k for PS4/XBOne, 40k+ for a 40" FHD TV, anywhere between 1-4k for individual console games, peripherals separate would mean you can get a GTX 1060, i5 6500 build and probably squeeze in a 1440p 27" monitor too. Games can be bought during sales for cheap.


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## warfreak (Aug 30, 2016)

Perhaps I must have made myself clear: 
 I was* not* talking about cost as in $$$s! I am talking about the overall logistics involving building your own PC including money, time and effort. I am also talking about stuff like overclocking, tweaking settings to get the desired FPS, worrying about the right graphics card for the right game etc.

For the enthusiasts, yes it makes more sense to just build it all together. But outside our tiny minority is a vast majority of people who would rather get a console than get into all this. I am talking about these people. Just get a prebuilt console and stop worrying about rest of the stuff. It makes more sense for them. And I totally understand. 

And it is this crowd that console games are marketed to. Now they are being given the option to not even have to buy a physical console. Just buy a subscription and start gaming. Just ensure that you have fast internet. I think this is a good deal for the non PC enthusiast crowd who just want gaming without having to learn about PCs.


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## Alok (Aug 31, 2016)

Nintendo is there, so its not coming to end


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## axes2t2 (Aug 31, 2016)

warfreak said:


> Perhaps I must have made myself clear:
> I was* not* talking about cost as in $$$s! I am talking about the overall logistics involving building your own PC including money, time and effort. I am also talking about stuff like overclocking, tweaking settings to get the desired FPS, worrying about the right graphics card for the right game etc.
> 
> For the enthusiasts, yes it makes more sense to just build it all together. But outside our tiny minority is a vast majority of people who would rather get a console than get into all this. I am talking about these people. Just get a prebuilt console and stop worrying about rest of the stuff. It makes more sense for them. And I totally understand.
> ...



This 'crowd' is filled with idiots and dumbasses.

Consolization of games and consoles are hurting PC gamers.


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## Desmond (Aug 31, 2016)

Thing is that most people want casual games which makes developers focus more on them.


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## gameranand (Aug 31, 2016)

Indeed. Hardcore gaming is dying a slow death. Though I am sure it will survive, as seen with some occasional games from some independent developers or Kickstarter project for that matter. But yes the core Developers are more interested in casual gamers.


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## axes2t2 (Sep 1, 2016)

Doesn't help the fact that most 'gamers' want shiny graphics to stroke their e-peen instead of gameplay.


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## gameranand (Sep 2, 2016)

axes2t2 said:


> Doesn't help the fact that most 'gamers' want shiny graphics to stroke their e-peen instead of gameplay.



Not exactly. They want awesome graphics when someone promise them that. Otherwise they are fine with Okaish graphics as well. The gameplay should be awesome then, which isn't the case most of the time, so we get average console graphics and mediocre gameplay. Obviously they will bad mouth about the game for sure.


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## warfreak (Sep 2, 2016)

axes2t2 said:


> This 'crowd' is filled with idiots and dumbasses.
> 
> Consolization of games and consoles are hurting PC gamers.



Please refrain from calling console players names. There are a vast majority of console gamers who just arent inclined to get into the technical aspects of pc assembly. They are entitled to their opinion. There are some "bad apples" that troll the Internet trying to spew their BS but that doesn't mean we put all into the same category. 

Yes, consolization is hurting PC gamers but there are still good developers who support all platforms and are unbiased. 

Developers will naturally gravitate towards what potentially generates the most revenue for them which, at this point is casual gaming.  We can hardly put the blame on them for that. We also have developers focussed on pc gamers. They balance out the market for us.


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## SaiyanGoku (Sep 2, 2016)

After the performance issues with Arkham Knight, I want game devs to make a game for PC first and then port it out to consoles. Consoles don't run them above 1080p resolution either way.


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## Desmond (Sep 2, 2016)

warfreak said:


> Please refrain from calling console players names. There are a vast majority of console gamers who just arent inclined to get into the technical aspects of pc assembly. They are entitled to their opinion. There are some "bad apples" that troll the Internet trying to spew their BS but that doesn't mean we put all into the same category.
> 
> Yes, consolization is hurting PC gamers but there are still good developers who support all platforms and are unbiased.
> 
> Developers will naturally gravitate towards what potentially generates the most revenue for them which, at this point is casual gaming.  We can hardly put the blame on them for that. We also have developers focussed on pc gamers. They balance out the market for us.



Agreed. I have nothing against console gamers, but the obnoxious few make me lose my ****.

As for the consolization of games, this video about Deus Ex: Invisible War puts things into perspective:



The gist of that video is that in order to sell to the console market, the developers of Deus Ex: Invisible War drastically dumbed down the game compared to the original Deus Ex and in doing so basically doomed the series until Human Revolution.

- - - Updated - - -



SaiyanGoku said:


> After the performance issues with Arkham Knight, I want game devs to make a game for PC first and then port it out to consoles. Consoles don't run them above 1080p resolution either way.



Piracy on PC is what prevents publishers from taking that risk. However you are right, other than that there is no reason to port from PC to consoles since the models, assets and textures are all built on PC. They are just built and loaded onto consoles for testing.


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## amit.tiger12 (Sep 2, 2016)

Because of piracy most titles first released for consoles.. consoles are meant only for gaming.. hard-core Gamer can own consoles.. but for better gaming experience you need to move to computer..

Sent from my Lenovo P1ma40 using Tapatalk


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## gameranand (Sep 2, 2016)

amit.tiger12 said:


> Because of piracy most titles first released for consoles.. consoles are meant only for gaming.. hard-core Gamer can own consoles.. but for better gaming experience you need to move to computer..
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo P1ma40 using Tapatalk


Its quite the opposite. Hardcore gamers usually game on PCs. Consoles are for casual gamers with no nonsense about hardware and stuff.


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## Stormbringer (Sep 2, 2016)

I think it's not fair to tag all console gamers as casual or non-hardcore gamers. Many gamers in the west have both a PC and a console. It's only here in our country most of us gamers can afford to have only one and we tend to lean towards PC because its not restricted to gaming and media playback (like consoles) + cheap games and thus offers us more value. Console gamers IMO can be as passionate about gaming as PC gamers. Calling gamers names for their choice of platform is just silly. And the blame for bad PC port games lies with developers and publishers not gamers.


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## gameranand (Sep 6, 2016)

Well there are exceptions to every rule.


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## saiyaman (Sep 6, 2016)

Something I never understood about consoles: The price of a game.

When you develop on PC you test it in different configurations and all sorts of graphic options. This involves way too much testing and bugs are fixed specifically for graphic cards too.

On consoles, it's one hardcoded configuration which does not involve as much of testing as the PC variant does. Due to the number of configurations being a laughable number of 2 or 3 plus with no options to tune down graphics I'm VERY VERY interested to know why the games are overpriced compared to PC games which require way too much effort.

Let's assume that a console exclusive is developed. That still has to be tested on one configuration. 

I thought it's supposed to be the other way around: PC games require more effort and cost more than hardcoded configuration optimized console games.

What gives?


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## Desmond (Sep 6, 2016)

One word: Monopoly.

$ony/M$ own (or have stakes in) all the steps required to publish a game on their respective platforms. They no doubt charge developers for licenses to publish games, which the developers recuperate by charging the customers higher. Also, because of almost zero piracy potential, they can afford to charge higher knowing that customers don't have much choice than to buy it regardless.

Compare that to PC where piracy risk is higher. If they charge higher, consumers are more likely to pirate because of higher costs. Therefore, they prefer to keep PC releases as an after thought if they want to supplement their income they get from sales on consoles. They do this by saving costs for PC development as much as possible. This is the main reason why we get shitty console ports mostly.


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## SaiyanGoku (Sep 6, 2016)

Instead of releasing a demo first, most devs now make incomplete games and then release paid DLCs to "complete" the game. Why can't they just do it the old fashioned way?

Make a game (with drm if necessary), make it available on steam/gog exclusively with appropriate regional pricing (yes, I'm talking about EA) and no regional restriction crap (Bandai Namco release games in India too  ) !


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## saiyaman (Sep 6, 2016)

Desmond David said:


> One word: Monopoly.
> 
> $ony/M$ own (or have stakes in) all the steps required to publish a game  on their respective platforms. They no doubt charge developers for  licenses to publish games, which the developers recuperate by charging  the customers higher. Also, because of almost zero piracy potential,  they can afford to charge higher knowing that customers don't have much  choice than to buy it regardless.
> 
> Compare that to PC where piracy risk is higher. If they charge higher,  consumers are more likely to pirate because of higher costs. Therefore,  they prefer to keep PC releases as an after thought if they want to  supplement their income they get from sales on consoles. They do this by  saving costs for PC development as much as possible. This is the main  reason why we get shitty console ports mostly.


 
This is the prime reason I do not buy newer consoles. You have overpriced games which amount to a single playthrough and are useless unless you pay YET again for a online gaming service provided by the respective console manufacturer despite paying for internet already.




SaiyanGoku said:


> Instead of releasing a demo first, most devs  now make incomplete games and then release paid DLCs to "complete" the  game. Why can't they just do it the old fashioned way?
> 
> Make a game (with drm if necessary), make it available on steam/gog  exclusively with appropriate regional pricing (yes, I'm talking about  EA) and no regional restriction crap (Bandai Namco release games in  India too  ) !



Generic EA game:

Step 1: Open Steam
Step 2: Go to POPULARGAME1
Step 3: If on sale, add to cart
Step 4: Scroll to DLC

StuffPack1
StuffPacK2
AncientPackWithNothingOtherThanRandom3DObject1
AncientPackWithNothingOtherThanRandom3DObject2
YetAnotherStuffPack1
YetAnotherStuffPack2
RAREHYPERNEWGAMEMODE1
RARENEWMAP1
RARENEWMAP2
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Total Cost: 12,000.

SEEMS LEGIT.


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## Desmond (Sep 6, 2016)

You are probably referring to this: The Sims™ 3 on Stea

All DLCs alone cost Rs. 12635

Plus base game for Rs. 665


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## sam9s (Sep 21, 2016)

*nvida GRID,* Netflix of games .. GaaS (Gaming as a service). Introduces on nvidia SHIELD, with features like Game streaming from your PC.

Stream Games with GeForce NOW | NVIDIA SHIEL 

Another nail in the coffin ..????


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## Hrishi (Sep 21, 2016)

How hard it can be for someone to develop an operating system intended for general purpose systems instead of those sort of ASIC based machines/consoles? And this OS caters only to gaming,  optimized for it. 
While I agree there would still be fragmentation in hardware but how bad it can be? It would be either AMD/nVidia or Intel Based. 

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk


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## Desmond (Sep 21, 2016)

Valve is already trying to tune SteamOS in that regard.


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## gameranand (Sep 22, 2016)

Desmond David said:


> Valve is already trying to tune SteamOS in that regard.


And with minimal fragmentation. thanks to Linux.  Though I wonder if they use NTFS or ext4 filesystem in SteamOS.


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## Desmond (Sep 22, 2016)

You can use either though I think it goes without saying that Ext4 will be used.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## axes2t2 (Sep 22, 2016)

Hrishi said:


> How hard it can be for someone to develop an operating system intended for general purpose systems instead of those sort of ASIC based machines/consoles? And this OS caters only to gaming,  optimized for it.
> While I agree there would still be fragmentation in hardware but how bad it can be? It would be either AMD/nVidia or Intel Based.
> 
> Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk



We can try hardening the OS.

Don't know how much it will help in the games.


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## Desmond (Sep 22, 2016)

You guys should also see the Smach Zero portable Steam Machine: SMACH



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

- - - Updated - - -

Testing out the SmachZ with Left4Dead:


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## TheSloth (Sep 22, 2016)

^didn't it feel like it was laggin? 
but device is good


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## Desmond (Sep 22, 2016)

It's still a prototype. Also you can't expect to play all games at high settings on a portable GPU.


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## TheSloth (Sep 22, 2016)

^yeah, that is true


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## masterkd (Sep 22, 2016)

gameranand said:


> And with minimal fragmentation. thanks to Linux.  Though I wonder if they use NTFS or ext4 filesystem in SteamOS.



It should not be NTFS even if it is not ext4. NTFS causes much more overhead and consumes more resources in Linux.


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## gameranand (Sep 22, 2016)

masterkd said:


> It should not be NTFS even if it is not ext4. NTFS causes much more overhead and consumes more resources in Linux.


Thats true.


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