# Vista - Will it Fly or Fall



## koolbluez (Jan 29, 2007)

Some SmartAlec @ TechCast had pointed out a definitive list of  why Vista can't survive.

According to him, Apple and Linux will soon take a big dip into Microsoft's market share.
His list goes so....
1.  It's expensive
2.  It doesn't offer features promised that would have made it a contender, in essence, it's too little too late.
3.  Many home and business computers won't be able to run it, cutting a huge slice out of their market share.
4.  Its 5,000 different versions will leave users shocked and confused as to which one is right for their needs.
5.  Dell, the world's biggest PC corporation is now giving users the option to not have Windows pre-installed on their computer.
6.  Linux is free and is all the time getting new features and programs that make a switch beneficial to the uncertain user.
7.  Apple is hip with the young crowd and the early adopters, meaning that Vista won't be as well received with them.
8.  Security is an issue and probably won't be fixed for a while to come.
9.  Even if your computer can run it, many features that are graphically intensive won't be runnable or will run slowly.

His list is true to an extent. As with all Windows applications.
Whatddya say... will Vista survive Macs & Linuxes or will Microsoft have a great fall?

Amazon Vista Sale


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## iMav (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				SmartAlec said:
			
		

> 4.  Its 5,000 different versions will leave users shocked and confused as to which one is right for their needs.
> 
> 6.  Linux is free and is all the time getting new features and programs that make a switch beneficial to the *uncertain user.*
> 7.  Apple is hip with the young crowd and the early adopters, meaning that Vista won't be as well received with them.
> ...


 dont agree to the quoted points ....


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## VD17 (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

it might have a tougher run than XP did when it was launched.. but dont forget.. this is Microsoft, for cryin' out loud... they have a HUGE brand image and that itself makes people blindly trust MS.. besides, with all that eye candy, ppl. will be all the more tempted. Remember, most ppl. in developed countries wont find vista that "expensive"...


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## subratabera (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

The best thing about Micro$oft is, they are extremely good at marketing their product. So, no matter how good or BAD Vista is, they will surely able sell it to the masses...AFAIK Apple's new OS is far more superior than Vista, but very few people know about its features...


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## tarey_g (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> Some SmartAlec @ TechCast had pointed out a definitive list of  why Vista can't survive.
> 
> According to him, Apple and Linux will soon take a big dip into Microsoft's market share.
> His list goes so....
> ...



Ya may be ,but something i' like to say 

*1.  It's expensive*
XP was too.

*2.  It doesn't offer features promised that would have made it a contender, in essence, it's too little too late.*
this one i agree

*3.  Many home and business computers won't be able to run it, cutting a huge slice out of their market share.*
this was case with XP too

*4.  Its 5,000 different versions will leave users shocked and confused as to which one is right for their needs.*
This point is stupid and idiotic. I like choices.

*5.  Dell, the world's biggest PC corporation is now giving users the option to not have Windows pre-installed on their computer.*
i hope everyone follows Dell 

*6.  Linux is free and is all the time getting new features and programs that make a switch beneficial to the uncertain user.*
Linux was free always. 

*7.  Apple is hip with the young crowd and the early adopters, meaning that Vista won't be as well received with them.*
ya apple has its followers as always , nothing new.

*8.  Security is an issue and probably won't be fixed for a while to come.*
This case was worse with XP.

*9.  Even if your computer can run it, many features that are graphically intensive won't be runnable or will run slowly.*
Same was with XP when it came.



Similar case that was with Xp when it released ,still people run XP on their systems , there can be many reasons for vista to fail. the points made by that guy dont convince me.


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## mehulved (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 1.  It's expensive


Really speaking, which paid OS has even been considered cheap


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 2.  It doesn't offer features promised that would have made it a contender, in essence, it's too little too late.


That's the worst part about Vista but it's only known to tech entuiasts. For general users, there are no missing features cos ads never told them about it.


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 3.  Many home and business computers won't be able to run it, cutting a huge slice out of their market share.


Many of them can still keep XP, till support lasts


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 4.  Its 5,000 different versions will leave users shocked and confused as to which one is right for their needs.


 This is one good thing. Choices are always better.


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 5.  Dell, the world's biggest PC corporation is now giving users the option to not have Windows pre-installed on their computer.


And few of them have some crappy FreeDOS or some stupid half-baked, stripped down, featureless linux installed. So, that's hardly appealing. They can just put in a working Linux distro and refuse support since users aren't paying for it.


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 6.  Linux is free and is all the time getting new features and programs that make a switch beneficial to the uncertain user.


Linux has been doing that all the time, just that, with a lot of cash and industry support coming in now, linux is getting advertised. So, people are coming to know linux. And that linux indeed has a GUI.


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 7.  Apple is hip with the young crowd and the early adopters, meaning that Vista won't be as well received with them.


 It's been so since eternity. Apple need to give an aggressive push to the markets and launch ads and campaigns by now.


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 8.  Security is an issue and probably won't be fixed for a while to come.


 Upcoming SP1?


			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> 9.  Even if your computer can run it, many features that are graphically intensive won't be runnable or will run slowly.


 But many people will install it to boast, and maybe even upgrade the hardware for it. But, the same people refuse to buy Mac, which has a better UI.


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## koolbluez (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vovv.... guyz... Yeh main nahin keh raha... TechCast mein likha hai...

BTW... very mixed comments. But seems like Macs too stand a chance 

Hey.. guyz... these r not my ideas... just wanted to bring out a poll on the same. Goin well so far...


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

i hope apple comes out wid a mac os for every pc user! that will be direct tough comptt. to vista! u simply can't resist the mac os. the rock solid bsd core and an excellant gui! apple should've been awarded the company of the century!


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## mehulved (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> the rock solid bsd core and an excellant gui!


 and other open source software like apache, cups, etc make up a quite substantial part of the system.


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## Bassu (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Yeh sure its gona work
__________
ITs gonna be the best


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## Aberforth (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista is an MS product, predicting doom for it is going too far. Windows still is the favorite of average computer users who will get scared the hell out if you show them the BIOs setup screen in their computers. Besides they aren't going to miss the features in Vista as they haven't tried the better alternatives like Linux in the first place. Moreover Linux is still a little 'geeky' as getting it to work involved a fair bit of work unlike Windows. And which MS OS wasn't expensive, Windows '95 shipped for about Rs. 15000/- when it was released, didn't spell doom for Microsoft.

Mark my words, when Vista is released and in customers' PCs they'll be rambling about how MS made amazing innovations like Aero Glass interface.


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## mediator (Jan 29, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Its very hard and useless to predict if VISTA will "chalega ya doobega".

When Xp came around most of my friends still had PCs with 64 MB RAM. But Xp survived and got successful then. Each n every hardware has a life. That life is governed by physical parameters. People will have to upgrade their existing machine with time and technology.

Gaming is a very big department and it needs high configurations. With time its obvious that technology will improve and so will the gaming department. Extreme Gaming enthusiasts upgrade their PCs like in every 6 months or less. My friend buys the latest graphic card wheneva its out. And the gaming department is ruled by Windows.

If such people can waste their money on upgrading their PCs for gaming, then installing VISTA  will be nothing for them. Yes they can use XP, but then again whats the use of using an old OS on latest hardware?

VISTA prices also may fall. It has not released yet officially and we r all making guesses here. So there's no doubt that people will upgrade their PCs. They will have to upgrade their PCs either due to sluggish/failing hardware or to njoy the latest technology. Their hardware may survive longer, but not forever.

The only thing that will concern the average users who r least interested in gaming is price of VISTA. But again, prices may fall or as usual piracy will rule atleast in India.

So IMHO, one cannot clearly give his verdict clearly if Vista will "Chalega y doobega". There r too many factors that govern this.

As for Linux, yes one can give his/her verdict affirmly that it will continue to rise. Its requirements r low too. The people who have their old PCs working fine, may continue using Xp or use Linux to Njoy the thrill associated with it.

Only, Time will tell if VISTA will "chalega ya doobega"!


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## praka123 (Jan 30, 2007)

*It will be a Huge Success *

Coming to reality,With people all over the world applauding for past 14+ years on every release of Windows and microsoft's gr8 ad campaign,Vista will be a huge success.
But I expect End Users soon realise that Vista be a pain in the back with its incorporated DRM(Digital Restrictions Management)
But with Vista released,Hardware vendors may be benefitting for the major upgrade of H/W for Vista.
Linux already is getting much easier for Desktop Users and the old rumour that Linux is for geeks turned to be a lie formatted by Windows fanboys.
GNU/Linux is as good as or even better than Vista in Eyecandy and *NIXens are famous for its stability,security etc.But Free Software People cant beat Microsoft's influence in detecting the future of OS business as what i think.they(MS) are the *BORG* You know what can they do.


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## kumarmohit (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

I agree with mediator that its still  to early to predict if Vista will be a success or failure. But its eye candy itself is going to be a USP considering that most people have not either seen OSX or still think Linux is a CUI operating system.


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## gxsaurav (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

MacOS will never dent in Windows Vista market, as long as it runs on Apple's properity hardware

Linux has potential, but not enough compeling features, & too many different standerds. It's not there yet, if it's the future, i will grab it in the future.

Windows Vista will rule, cos it has DX10 which drives the gaming Industry. It has new features which will bring new hardware standerds (Hybrid harddisk anyone). It's like a combination, Windows moves the CPU/GPU market, & new CPU/GPU move the Windows market


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## shashank4u (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

na chalega na dubega ..vista will swim slowly..(terega)...
it ll not be a huge success like ms xp...which is a hot favourite
for pc s with decent configuration.


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## Abhishek Dwivedi (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista has the power to rock.......but what it demands is a good hardware configration...XP also did that....so...Vista will swim(as said by Shashank4u)

and soon take over market ...

but i am  wating for XP sp3....wow...ne idea??


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## aryayush (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> VISTA prices also may fall. It has not released yet officially


It has been released. It was already launched when you posted.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> MacOS will never dent in Windows Vista market, as long as it runs on Apple's properity hardware
> 
> Linux has potential, but not enough compeling features, & too many different standerds. It's not there yet, if it's the future, i will grab it in the future.
> 
> Windows Vista will rule, cos it has DX10 which drives the gaming Industry. It has new features which will bring new hardware standerds (Hybrid harddisk anyone). It's like a combination, Windows moves the CPU/GPU market, & new CPU/GPU move the Windows market



thee biggest Plus factor with MS is the gaming support in it's OS .


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## sreevirus (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

In my personal opinion, Vista's here to stay, whatever Linux enthusiasts and Mac maniacs might say.

You know, I've introduced some of my friends to Linux (SuSE and Ubuntu). But no one of them gave any hints of liking Linux. I still consider myself a n00b with linux (well, maybe an above-average n00b), but the number of phone calls I had to answer with respect to Linux doubts and queries were far too many when I compare it with Windows XP. People learn Windows far more easily than Linux. I would never complain about the advancements in the Linux GUI (openSuSE 10.2 is a real eye candy). But my friends were never satisfied with the Linux experience overall. 
At one instance, my friend wanted to use XGL with compiz in SuSE on his PC. He's been really frustrated with it, and he still hasnt succeeded in configuring it. The result: he has given up. Also, since he's an avid gamer, he has shown the finger to Linux (believe me). If open-source freaks on this forum have grudges against my comments, read a little bit more.
When non-geek people generally think of an OS, they want things to be smooth (its a fact, many people will vouch for this). Please, look at what's easier: playing a DVD on windows, or downloading stuff and spending a large amount of time configuring stuff in the wild hope that you might be able to play it on linux. I've seen more people learning to configure things on windows without any help from the internet or a geek, than people trying out stuff by searching on google for help with Linux (I'm just one of them). C'mon man, why is open-source still closed when it comes to adding a little bit of proprietary stuff, that might endear it to more people on the lookout for a good software experience?? No mp3. No videos. This is not what normal people want. And the distros that do have these features out-of-the-box are indeed costly. (I rest my case here).
My friend was just one complainer. Another guy got scared of the GPL, referring to 'Use at your own risk' (yeah, he read the license).
And yes, no one was very happy or keen to use the command line for every damn mundane jobs.
Linux still has a loooong way to go, and I'll be waiting for a 'real' user-friendly Linux OS like I've been doing for 2 years.

Mac might be able to give Vista a run for its money, but I really don't see it gaining a foothold in India very soon (thanks to closed hardware and of course, the astronomical cost)
{Since we're on the topic, one of my friend's cousins couldn't access Sify internet through her macbook pro, and sify guys had no idea what the hell was going on; she had to use bootcamp to install XP...Anyone who might be able to help please PM me}.

So back to the topic...Vista will BE the preference for many now, in my own opinion...but then again, I could be wrong.


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## eddie (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

The main reasons mentioned, that can go against Vista's growth are Price, Hardware requirement, lack of new features and security.

*Price:* Since when has this stopped world from accepting Microsoft's software? People buy and they WILL buy, no questions asked. Apple and Linux in their current state don't come near Microsoft because of the marketing and business collaborations. Microsoft will market Vista very aggressively and will collaborate with PC vendors for supplying it. This is where the competitors lose out and Vista gains.

*Hardware requirement:* For last many years, it has been because of Microsoft that hardware manufacturing companies have flourished. Do you remember the times when XP was about to be released? We all had 64MB RAM and Celerons happily running Windows 2000 or Me. Did we have any complaints? No...but then came XP. What happened? People first upgraded to P4 and 128MB RAM just to install XP, then came SP1 and the RAM requirement went up to 256MB, then came SP2 and I can bet at least 80% people in here are running 512MB RAM in their computers rights now. Hardware requirement just doesn't hold ground. People WILL upgrade their hardware to install Vista.

*Lack of new features:* Ermm...what were the major feature enhancements between Windows 2000 and XP again? No, the blue theme and that wallpaper don't count. Once again the feature difference between XP and Vista will be "looks". Thats it...it looks cool and it is something to boast about. That is the reason good enough for people to move to it. Who would buy spanking new hardware and want to buy some old OS...no one!

*Security:* It is Microsoft!!! It has never been "Secure". Which one of their products failed because of that reason? I don't remember any. Do you?
__________
*I am just going to reply to the read-a-little-more part. I am not trying to ignite a flame war here and did not mention any positive points of Linux in my above post but just want to clarify what you are saying.*


			
				sreevirus said:
			
		

> When non-geek people generally think of an OS, they want things to be smooth (its a fact, many people will vouch for this). Please, look at what's easier: playing a DVD on windows, or downloading stuff and spending a large amount of time configuring stuff in the wild hope that you might be able to play it on linux.


When I try to play my numerous AVI's and MPEG's on any Linux distro they play without any problems. I don't have to install XVID or something else because they come pre-installed. What happens with Windows? We have to install codecs? I don't see people cribbing about that. I have read enough about this MP3 codec thing. Its like only Linux has this problem. Don't you have download a gazillion things at the time of preparing Windows to work smoothly? Why so much of hype about Linux installation?


> I've seen more people learning to configure things on windows without any help from the internet or a geek, than people trying out stuff by searching on google for help with Linux (I'm just one of them).


Do you use spoon while eating? Do you have any difficult in working out how to do it? No, because you've always had your food that way. Now try eating your rice using chopsticks. Can you do it? 90% of Indians can't do it and that is a conservative statement. The same logic applies to your question. People have been brought up on Windows. They have always used it...hence no problems.


> And the distros that do have these features out-of-the-box are indeed costly. (I rest my case here).


Freespire, Dreamlinux, Ubuntu Mint, various other Ubuntu derivatives. I rest my case here.


> Another guy got scared of the GPL, referring to 'Use at your own risk' (yeah, he read the license).


Ask him to read MS EULA as well. We will talk about it then 


> And yes, no one was very happy or keen to use the command line for every damn mundane jobs.


No need to. I never touched it in SuSE.


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## subratabera (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Nicely explained @eddie. I have found something that may be useful. Please check it out...

*It's 2007 and Linux has arrived!*


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## mediator (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sreevirus said:
			
		

> In my personal opinion, Vista's here to stay, whatever Linux enthusiasts and Mac maniacs might say.
> 
> You know, I've introduced some of my friends to Linux (SuSE and Ubuntu). But no one of them gave any hints of liking Linux. I still consider myself a n00b with linux (well, maybe an above-average n00b), but the number of phone calls I had to answer with respect to Linux doubts and queries were far too many when I compare it with Windows XP. People learn Windows far more easily than Linux. I would never complain about the advancements in the Linux GUI (openSuSE 10.2 is a real eye candy). But my friends were never satisfied with the Linux experience overall.
> At one instance, my friend wanted to use XGL with compiz in SuSE on his PC. He's been really frustrated with it, and he still hasnt succeeded in configuring it. The result: he has given up. Also, since he's an avid gamer, he has shown the finger to Linux (believe me). If open-source freaks on this forum have grudges against my comments, read a little bit more.
> ...


I request u not to deviate the topic to O.S1 VS O.S2 etc. If u wanna express ur thoughts n feel like deviating the topic then it wud be better to post here

And since u r giving so many "friend's" examples who r "noobies", then allow me to give one too similarly. My friend tried to install Xp when it was new n it was affected by "Blaster worm virus" resulting to reformat and reinstall. Then it the misery of BSOD's, crashes,.....list is too big! Another friend of mine cudn't install VISTA on his new PC. I dunno the reason, then he tried to install Xp, but the install disc got stuck on the starting stage itself. He said "Bhai maine haath jod liye. Toone linux kaha tha, please give that now". And next guess what? He said he liked Knoppix 5.1.0 very much. I told him try fedora and ubuntu tooo then.

So the list is endless! Please stick to the topic and discuss why Vista will "chalega ya doobega". Eye Candy? So many people have posted their VISTA desktop screenshots in this forums. And none of them matched the power of Beryl on Linux.

*If u think I'm a linux fanboy, then u need to read my previous post again!*

I can give a list of convincing points for why VISTA will not chalega. But then again, there r too many factors involved. So I think nobody can really say if it will "chalega ya doobega".


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## praka123 (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista,might had this time included many UNIX like features like File system permissions and user permissions setup incorporated.that may prevent virii  infections>?


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## ECE0105 (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Not really sure. I have tried to use Linux for a long time now, but going nowhere. Mac? Forget it. I am a poor man and I can't afford even the Mac Mini, which is for around 33k (I guess...) 

My P4 2.8GHz(511) with 1GB RAM etc... Cost me 20K. That is a better config than the Mac Mini (in terms of Hardware).

I can run Vista, but without the Aero Interface. But as long as Piracy Wins..., I have no issues with Vista or any other OS that M$ brings out.

Jai bolo Pirate Maharaj ki.......


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## mehulved (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

1 thing I should agree, if GPL scares them, then EULA should kill them. EULA is repstrictive whereas GPL is permissive.
They don't bother reading anything in Windows cos they're more or less familiar but Linux is new so they bother reading such licenses.
And it's not GNU who will sue them, it's the owners of patents which could sue them. But, that chances of that happening in India is null.


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## sreevirus (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				eddie said:
			
		

> When I try to play my numerous AVI's and MPEG's on any Linux distro they play without any problems. I don't have to install XVID or something else because they come pre-installed. What happens with Windows? We have to install codecs? I don't see people cribbing about that. I have read enough about this MP3 codec thing. Its like only Linux has this problem. Don't you have download a gazillion things at the time of preparing Windows to work smoothly? Why so much of hype about Linux installation?


 Please tell me which distro? It might help me and some of my friends.
But please, when I was first introduced to windows XP, it played all my music and video CDs. Linux didn't. I had to learn a lot of stuff. And I could say that its my modest knowledge of Linux that's keeping my friends from formatting their ext3/reiserfs partitions. Please, do not assume that I'm anti Linux. I love trying things out, that's why I'm still using Linux. But also, please don't assume that I'm an uber-geek.



			
				eddie said:
			
		

> Do you use spoon while eating? Do you have any difficult in working out how to do it? No, because you've always had your food that way. Now try eating your rice using chopsticks. Can you do it? 90% of Indians can't do it and that is a conservative statement. The same logic applies to your question. People have been brought up on Windows. They have always used it...hence no problems.


 I anticipated an answer like this. I wasn't talking about people being used to Windows or Linux. I was talking about complete n00bs. I've seen people using Windows for the first time in their lives. And I have seen them being at ease on new land. Not the same in case of Linux. (For instance, my Dad). You don't blame people who never even have used a spoon in their life for not knowing how to use it. (But I will also not deny that some had problems with viruses).

But the opinion was similar in most cases: Linux is tough to use.
I'm not talking about developers and coders here, well versed with all the technical jargons associated with computers. I'm talking about simple minded people who need a simple OS.

Again, as some of you guys said, familiarity with windows is what keeps it going. You can't deny that now, there are more people knowing windows than linux. So support is a deciding factor. And i was answering to "kya vista chalega?". Daudega to nahi, na hi doobega, par chalega zaroor.



			
				eddie said:
			
		

> Ask him to read MS EULA as well. We will talk about it then


 Well, he ain't too worried about MS suing him for "disassembling, reverse engineering or trying to reduce the software to a human perceivable form..." because he knows he can't do things like that.


BTW, c'mon yaar, don't flame me for trying to introduce Linux in a Windowed building.


And mediator, I was trying to explain a scenario with respect to the topic. If you felt I was deviating, I apologise.


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## Aberforth (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

I remember an incident of a friend a few days back when he peeped my laptop while I was asking and asked, "Do you have Windows Vista?". I went on.."No, I have Windows MCE and Linux and I don't really need it" He went on sayinf how a classmate had Vista and how amazing, goodlooking it was. I booted to OpenSuse, showed him the ripple, cube effects, it had him astounded. But when I told him about the requirements and ways to enable it in his own laptop he backed off saying, "You are a technical guy, I can't understand these things. Windows will do for me." Well this is the picture which shows Vista isn't going to sink very soon. Firefox free, faster, quicker to install, easy to use and more secure but we still have a large market share of IE which pales Firefox share in comparison. So its too naive to predict outcomes of a multibillion dollar company on such assumption. Maybe MS will fall but not with Vista....


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## mehulved (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sreevirus said:
			
		

> Well, he ain't too worried about MS suing him for "disassembling, reverse engineering or trying to reduce the software to a human perceivable form..." because he knows he can't do things like that.


 GPL doesn't sue for such stuff either, on the other hand it encourages you to modify GPL'ed softwares and create something suitable for yourself.
We're going way off topic now. Maybe we can start a thread on this in Open Source.


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## mediator (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sreevirus said:
			
		

> I'm not talking about developers and coders here, well versed with all the technical jargons associated with computers. I'm talking about simple minded people who need a simple OS.


Simplicity and ease is also governed by smoothness in running of the OS, maintainence, repair work, .....etc. For windows it implies disk defragment, installing antivirus,antispyware and its continous updating and updating the O.S itself continously. I dont think anybody wud call all this simple and easy.

Neways, I too dont intend to start a flame and OS war here. But I just request u to install any latest distro, equip it with codecs and beryl and then show it to ur friends. If one can download and install codecs,office,winamp,winrar,winzip.....etc  in windows, then installing beryl and codecs in linux shudn't even bother them. There r many distros like suggested by @eddie which have all of this packaged in the cd itself! So u don't even need to install them from net. 

Neways I'm glad to see that u have a similar mindset like me to learn things. So  please read this, all the posts.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Piracy zindaabad


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## rajasekharan (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

The only factor that prevents users from going to other o.s is games .as long as gaming support is not on others MS will rule . Sealed


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## eddie (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sreevirus said:
			
		

> BTW, c'mon yaar, don't flame me for trying to introduce Linux in a Windowed building.


 This is what I clarified *in BOLD* when I wrote that part in my post. *I do not want to start a flame war and was not flaming anyone.* I clearly wrote a post explaining how Vista will _chalega_ but I just wanted to say that it will work "not because" of Linux (or any other OS) shortcomings, lack of features, lack of easiness to work with or lack of anything else. Vista will _chalega_ because of its own reasons and the reasons are brand Microsoft, aggressive marketing, business collaborations and lack of people's willingness to change.

I can still go on and give an appropriate reply to your successive post but this topic is not about Linux and I will not try to convert it into one. Lastly please don't even think that I was flaming you.


----------



## Aberforth (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

@ mediator - Windows is still 'user friendly' for most users as it is easy to use, lot of free support is available (evey computer user can more or less troubleshoot windows), installing programs in a snap, a hell lot of programs are available, most of music and movies play out of the box (instead of a "X Player says it cannot play X file"). Windows is also supported by the computer copany, drivers are easily available either on company CD or for download (For example I had to run around, mess with compiling ALSA 1.0.14 RC2 drivers to get my sound card to work). Software installations rarely break a Windows system, you can always uninstall it if it gives problems while you can't really be sure whether the next installation would render your Linux distro unbootable. People like to try out softwares and different stuff, just a basic, stable OS running default programs isn't enough.

Keeping these points I'd say we can't predict a downfall of Vista yet, though Linux users will keep growing. People are generally suspicious of 'free stuff' and one friend of mine, on my suggestion to try out Linux quips "What if the guy who makes Linux starts charging for it after somedays?". I had to spend a half hour to teach him about Linux kernel, open source, distros....only to get it at the end, "Oh someone would do so much coding only to give it away for free? He must be a foolish guy, I'm not putting his software in my system." If more people like these exist Microsoft doesn't have much to worry about.


----------



## mediator (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^ You can read my posts in Linux Vs windows debate.

Neways, tell ur friend one more thing. Tell him Norton used rootkits and then tell him the definition of rootkits and then whats closed source and whats open source.


----------



## aryayush (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				Aberfoth said:
			
		

> ... installing programs in a snap...


Yeah, sure! :roll:

You haven't seen how programs should be installed yet.


----------



## shantanu (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista Sure Gonna Rock!!!!


----------



## Aberforth (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Yeah, sure! :roll:
> 
> You haven't seen how programs should be installed yet.



I have seen installing programs in Windows, Linux, BSD and Mac. Installing and uninstalling softwares in Windows is next only to OS X in terms of ease but like it or not, its still involves a fair bit of work and bandwidth hogging in Linux. Especially dependency issues. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways, tell ur friend one more thing. Tell him Norton used rootkits and then tell him the definition of rootkits and then whats closed source and whats open source.



Doesn't work. Everyone knows Windows is the holeist OS in terms of security yet they stick to it. Anyone I suggest to try out Linux emphasising security, quips, "I already have Windows and I have no problems besides what have I got which needs so much security anyway". For such people virus are a problem only when their system is slowed down, they can't go to their sites...not because their privacy is at stake.


----------



## mediator (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^I agree to that. Yea thats human nature alright!


----------



## aryayush (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				Aberforth said:
			
		

> I have seen installing programs in Windows, Linux, BSD and Mac. Installing and uninstalling softwares in Windows is next only to OS X in terms of ease but like it or not, its still involves a fair bit of work and bandwidth hogging in Linux. Especially dependency issues.


Yeah, that is what I meant. I was saying that if installing programs in Windows is a snap, then it is heaven in OS X.
In this aspect, it definitely goes in this order: Mac OS X >> Windows >> Linux.


----------



## NucleusKore (Jan 31, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Chalega ya Dobega? Chalega bilkul

People are lazy in general, and do not wish to learn something new when they can use a pirated product so easily. Viruses? So what, back up data regularly, format and reinstall, the panacea for all windows ills. 

Linux on the other hand requires a person to use his/her brain a lot more initially because of a little different way things are done. I myself took a year before I could bid goodbye to windows, errr.... almost, my Nokia PC Suite for my 7610 requires windows, whereas in Linux I only have bluetooth push services. So I use my Rs. 3500 OS only for my cellphone!

I heard that its not so easy to get certified in Linux as it is to pass windows certification exams. I am not surprised


----------



## mediator (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				NucleusKore said:
			
		

> People are lazy in general, and *do not wish to learn something new* when they can use a pirated product so easily.





			
				NucleusKore said:
			
		

> *Linux on the other hand requires a person to use his/her brain a lot more* initially because of a little different way things are done.


Ahem! On one hand u want people to learn something new and then on other u want something that requires less brains. What actually do u want? Learning requires brains. Don't u agree?

If u want people to learn something, then IMHO there doesn't exist a better option than Linux/Unix.

And if people can scan for viruses, undo the damages done to windows, then ofcors reading the step by step tutorials ,from which even a child can learn today,shudn't even bother them. When I think of the pain that Xp cozed me, then undoubtedly I find today's linuxes much more easy and simple. I don't wanna divert the topic so please read the windows Vs linux debate.



			
				nucleusKore said:
			
		

> Viruses? So what, *back up* data regularly, *format and reinstall*, the panacea for all windows ills.


Looks like u have got a lotta time for that nuisance! BTW, I did reformat and reinstall Xp 3 times in the past 6 months now and all the back up was done to same old Linux drive!


----------



## praka123 (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

AFAIK Microsoft this time is aggressively marketing its windows oses,they are raiding even small firms selling PCs with pirated windows.they started putting hoardings all over the city about the need for buying windows/office licenses and benefits of updates through subscription system.
these are what i observed lately in a  city which can be called pirates heaven(No Offense!)
Coimbatore-TamilNadu.
MS will be planning such measures for other such cities/towns.
BTW i read MS is backed by NASSCOM in their raids for pirates.what is NASSCOM


----------



## mediator (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> AFAIK Microsoft this time is aggressively marketing its windows oses,they are raiding even small firms selling PCs with pirated windows.they started putting hoardings all over the city about the need for buying windows/office licenses and benefits of updates through subscription system.
> these are what i observed lately in a  city which can be called pirates heaven(No Offense!)
> Coimbatore-TamilNadu.
> MS will be planning such measures for other such cities/towns.
> BTW i read MS is backed by NASSCOM in their raids for pirates.what is NASSCOM


Heh, looks like a nice time for linux vendors and open source community to spread its wings. They shud follow the same and raid even small firms with pirated stuff and tell em about open source and linux.


----------



## praka123 (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^ BTW Coimbatore got more than 7 LUG's )


----------



## NucleusKore (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Ahem! On one hand u want people to learn something new and then on other u want something that requires less brains. What actually do u want? Learning requires brains. Don't u agree? ........



Nice reply, my post was intended tongue in cheek. Like I said, although I am a GENUINE Microsoft Windows user, at the end of a year of using Open SuSE I am left with only one use for windows, that is working with my Nokia 7610.


----------



## Aberforth (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Yeah, that is what I meant. I was saying that if installing programs in Windows is a snap, then it is heaven in OS X.
> In this aspect, it definitely goes in this order: Mac OS X >> Windows >> Linux.



Well I still can't come to terms with drag and drop installation of Macs (much like vBulletin plugins). I like a software to be a part of a system like integrated to it, not a plugin which is what Mac does - Windows and Linux don't...



			
				NucleusKore said:
			
		

> Chalega ya Dobega? Chalega bilkul
> 
> People are lazy in general, and do not wish to learn something new when they can use a pirated product so easily. Viruses? So what, back up data regularly, format and reinstall, the panacea for all windows ills.
> 
> I heard that its not so easy to get certified in Linux as it is to pass windows certification exams. I am not surprised



Exactly. People are lazy and resistant to change. Anyway backing up isn't essential if you have a dedicated Windows partition, al you do is reformat and install. And not all people use pirated products, a lot of OEM PCs come with Windows preinstalled and they are optimized for Windows XP and you'd be hard pressed to find high end OEM Linux systems.

I find Microsoft Certification doubtful, like PMT exams, objective type exams have an element of luck and lottery in addition to hard work.

By the way Microsoft marketing strategies are good, they create an illusion among not-to-tech-savvy entrepreneurs that Windows is better supported than Linux. I like to point out you can pay and get support for Linux and the overhead costs are still cheaper...in Windows its not just the OS but anti virus, antispyware (using precious resources) which have to be accounted for. And Microsoft gives 'third party findings' of corporations where Windows has an edge instead of the large numbers like NASA, FBI, Google, Yahoo who live off Linux. Marketing is the art of fooling, and if people can be fooled by a multi million dollar giant, its naive to think Vista will sink.


----------



## gxsaurav (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

the thing is, people only think of linux as Free OS with lots of configuration required to work on it. Why don't digit or other magzines provide info about paid linux distro, like Suse or Mandriva, they are dirt cheap compared to Windows & take away half the work required. They come with codecs, some firewall....mostly near-pro apps

Not everyone needs windows for gods sake, offices, cyber cafes will do fine with Linux & WINE

However in the end we find that Windows is the most idiot proof OS out there. Talk about OS to a noob & the first word which comes out is "Windows". It's the general OS, mostly auto configures, not like linux. Let users use what they want, & if they like Linux they can switch to it, it's their choice


----------



## gadha (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

doobega. no doubt about that. even though it may rake up some fortunes for microsoft but i believe that its cost will pull it down, at least in india. there is not much new in vista as compared to other windows versions..


----------



## rajasekharan (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Please microsoft , take such measure that no copy of illegal windows can be installed what so ever or something like that . . . Means more Linux popularity ,all games and softwares to Linux and death of microsoft . . Please please kill piracy to doom yourself and free others  . . This is the only time i am with "antipiracy " thing


----------



## NucleusKore (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

I too am against piracy, hope they crack down real hard. It will be good for Linux. Otherwise they will be forced to cut their exorbitant prices. 
Where else can you find, the vendor of an OS selling their own antivirus ! To safeguard against the bugs in their OS! Its a laugh, someone should take them to court.


----------



## subratabera (Feb 2, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				NucleusKore said:
			
		

> Where else can you find, the vendor of an OS selling their own antivirus ! To safeguard against the bugs in their OS! Its a laugh, someone should take them to court.


 Very funny...LOL


----------



## Tapomay (Feb 2, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

are bhai jarur chalega


----------



## pauljose (Feb 5, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

will run. wen MS launches a product the world always puts it down. but eventually 89% of the world still runs MS. so after the launch many bugs will be found. i was told that around 3800 bugs have already been reported and MS will fix the bugs. so software is free of bugs. so in my opinion in the long run Vista will run. and don't expect any new OS from MS soon.---- Chalega.


----------



## aneesh kalra (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

I also second that opinion that windows vista especially because of the fact that windows vista is slower than xp on an indentical spec pc.one of the main reasons I upgraded to xp was beacuse of it being faster than 98 by quite an amount however vista is banking purely on its aero interface and has only a few perfomance boosters like superfetch and readyboost.One ofthe other annoying things is that there is no introduction of  anew file system;i.e;winfs with it.And the cost rs 18000 for the ultimate one.Atleast till the prices of components like ram and gpu's drop vista doobega.


----------



## x69x (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

vista sucks


----------



## gxsaurav (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aneesh kalra said:
			
		

> I also second that opinion that windows vista especially because of the fact that windows vista is slower than xp on an indentical spec pc.one of the main reasons I upgraded to xp was beacuse of it being faster than 98 by quite an amount however vista is banking purely on its aero interface and has only a few perfomance boosters like superfetch and readyboost.One ofthe other annoying things is that there is no introduction of anew file system;i.e;winfs with it.And the cost rs 18000 for the ultimate one.Atleast till the prices of components like ram and gpu's drop vista doobega.


 
Actully, if u read the comparision of Vista editions before buying...you will find that u do not require anything other then Vista Home premium at max worth Rs 11k. 

The reason Vista is slower then XP on old computers is the lack of drivers. If you have a computer with proper vista compatible Chipset, I/O, sound card, nework & graphics card driver, then Vista is faster then XP, cos the UI is drwan using graphics card which gives the CPU about 10% more working power which is used in the UI drawing in case of Windows XP, & the hardware knows how to work with Vista

Anything over 2 GHz, with 512 MB RAM & Intel 845G can run vista, without aero though. 

Anything  over 2 GHz, 1 GB RAM & 128 MB FX 5700 or Radeon 9600 or Geforce 6150/Radeon X200 onboard can run vista aero fine


----------



## ECE0105 (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

For people who say that Mac has great Security : 

*news.com.com/2100-1002_3-6046197.html

Linux has no issues with Virus ???? 2 mins on Google got me two links here... I guess people can find many more...

*www.kaspersky.com/linux
*free.grisoft.com/doc/4040/lng/us/tpl/v5


No, I am not Supporting Windows.... Have tried using Vista and it is working fine for me.. No AV or Firewall installed yet... The only problem is that it keeps prompting me a 100 times whenever I wanna do anything...

Inspite of all the shortcomings... I guess Vista is gonna be the OS of most Desktops in the Near future...

P.S. I found a news article that has some interesting info...

*www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/early_vista_sales_dont_tell_the_whole_story.html


----------



## mehulved (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				ECE0105 said:
			
		

> Linux has no issues with Virus ???? 2 mins on Google got me two links here... I guess people can find many more...
> 
> *www.kaspersky.com/linux
> *free.grisoft.com/doc/4040/lng/us/tpl/v5


 Have you tried to look beyond the top of it? The anti-viruses exist to protect client which make the use of linux as the server. Or if you are stupid/daring enough to want to run windows viruses under wine. Show me any linux based viruses in the wild. Yeah proof of concept viruses do exist but they don't do anything per se. It maybe possible for linux to have viruses in the future, but it won't be as much as what we see on windows. As it is, for now, we don't need to worry about viruses.


----------



## alok4best (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

chalega nahi,,already chal chuka hai


----------



## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				tech_your_future said:
			
		

> Or if you are stupid/daring enough to want to run windows viruses under wine.


Pondering over that, I guess those viruses also wont be able to do anything from wine tooo coz the working of monolithic kernel is different from microkernel. Have u experimented with such an interesting case or know about it?  I wud like to experiment on that.


----------



## tarey_g (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^ In fact some one did that , I read on digg , some one tried to run windows viruses thru wine in his ubuntu installation .

*www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=72598


----------



## mehulved (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Pondering over that, I guess those viruses also wont be able to do anything from wine tooo coz the working of monolithic kernel is different from microkernel. Have u experimented with such an interesting case or know about it?  I wud like to experiment on that.


Check the thread that tarey gave. Somebody else also gave out this thread in Chit Chat section yesterday.
Viruses will run but only within the wine environment. It won't affect your system as such. Though, the damage won't be done to your system, but the virus will try to create network connections and spread to other computers from your computer. This can cause an increase in network traffic and slow down your network and overall internet, when spread in large numbers.
Another thing it can do is, multiply exponentially, so as to eat up huge system resources and crash your system. But, once wine is stopped the viruses are uneffective. But, it doesn't apply to all the viruses, only a few which depend of API's that have been implemented in wine.


----------



## mediator (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Disappointing! They dont even come close to MS-blasterworm and only create files etc. Everything is halted at "ctrl+c". I guess a buggy software can be more annoying than this!


----------



## gdatuk (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				koolbluez said:
			
		

> His list goes so....
> 1.  It's expensive
> 2.  It doesn't offer features promised that would have made it a contender, in essence, it's too little too late.
> 3.  Many home and business computers won't be able to run it, cutting a huge slice out of their market share.
> ...



Dont agree to most of ur points
1. Everything is costly when launched, when the product breakseven, it will be cheap. so....WAIT
2. No matter late, its latest
3. Yes agree, they have to upgrade hardware...else...be happy with XP
4. Only 4 version.....and its so simple to find what u want....(XP has 3 versions....Linux has 5000000 versions)
5.Dell is giving away vista installed systems as very low rate compared to xp installed systems...
6. Linux been there for a long time..but not on ordinary man's PC...
7. iTunes now works smoothly with vista
8. Security patches are released now and then....
9. Same as point 3


----------



## Aberforth (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^ Said something sensible. As long as Windows is pre-installed in computers and support is available we cannot except the doom of it too soon. Linux needs a few smoothing out before it gts into everyone's desktop PC, to pose a real threat to Vista. When Windows 95 was launched it cost Rs. 9000 but still people were crazy to buy it.


----------



## digitmagsubscriber (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

hehehe vista doobega!!!!!!1!! LOL


----------



## DukeNukem (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gadha said:
			
		

> doobega. no doubt about that. even though it may rake up some fortunes for microsoft but i believe that its cost will pull it down, at least in india. there is not much new in vista as compared to other windows versions..



nice pic and id

nothing from microsoft side sinks (completely)


----------



## ECE0105 (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				tech_your_future said:
			
		

> Have you tried to look beyond the top of it? The anti-viruses exist to protect client which make the use of linux as the server. Or if you are stupid/daring enough to want to run windows viruses under wine. Show me any linux based viruses in the wild. Yeah proof of concept viruses do exist but they don't do anything per se. It maybe possible for linux to have viruses in the future, but it won't be as much as what we see on windows. As it is, for now, we don't need to worry about viruses.




Don't worry... Once Linux gains atleast 50% of the Market share of Windows... It might start having the same number of security exploits as well....

And Nope... I am not a Windows Fan(atic) or a Linux or Mac Hater... Just posting wat I see and wat I presume wud happen....


----------



## mehulved (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				ECE0105 said:
			
		

> Don't worry... Once Linux gains atleast 50% of the Market share of Windows... It might start having the same number of security exploits as well....
> 
> And Nope... I am not a Windows Fan(atic) or a Linux or Mac Hater... Just posting wat I see and wat I presume wud happen....


 presumption doesn't work as well as knowledge. *nix is a tried and tested architecture. And it's way stronger then Windows. Only way your theory can come true is that they mess completely with the internals of linux.


----------



## caleb (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

As long as Linux is kept away from serious Gaming front of computing than Vista will not just "Chalega" but "Doudega"...Gaming is a multi billion dollar industry and there is nothing like windows for gaming when it comes to computers. Also the perception of linux by most corporate companies is that of a "college geek" image. Until those 2 things change (i.e. linux' perception by corporates & serious gaming for linux) Vista will reign.


----------



## freshseasons (Mar 8, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Why people fall for this microsoft trap i dont really understand. Come on wakeup they are stealing your money. Run from them at the very first site.Every time when microsoft have made people of the world download updates for the present operating site..which incidently is always twice in size ( in total ) to the original operating system they ship a new one.
  Its as if almost saying freeze!They have a slogan ." We will punish the people to download scrap and make them feel that tis the most important secrity thing.More than the security of your own child." Now that all the worms and system holes have been patched up and there really is no more scope for more updates let us make a new operating system and hen there will be more updates to down load more holes to patch and more bugs.What was wrong with XP. What didint Xp do ! 
       Turst me ! World is divided into 2 parts. One that is downloading porn and one that is downloading updates. The few exceptions are so small ( like we posting on this forum and some idiots reading it)in wasting the bandwidth that they only make the argument true.Grow up to this microsoft trick!
      This forum and some pretty female anatomical parts looks the same whether seen from vista or XP.
       I wish instead of automatic updates they had something like automatic harddisk songs downloading...much more able use of bandwidth.


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Uh... the internet will always look and work the same regardless of which operating system you are using, buddy.

However, you cannot find your files as efficiently in XP as in Vista, XP does not look nearly as good and programs on XP can never be as good as they have the potential to on Vista, Yahoo! Messenger for XP and the forthcoming version for Vista is a prime example.

I am not saying this justifies the ridiculous price of Windows Vista, but it is a lot different than XP and does not deserve to be distributed freely as an update to XP, which is what you seem to be suggesting. 

Here's a quote from fake Steve:





> Let's face it. You're losers. And thieves. You can't make anything decent on your own, so instead you demand that those of us who do have talent should give you our work for free. All this hoo-ha about "freedom" and protecting people's rights? Come on. Tell Eben Moglen and Larry Lessig to sit down and create an album as good as "Abbey Road" and give it away free. Then we can talk. Or this: All of you guys start working for zero money. Send me your IRS forms showing a complete year of zero income, and maybe you'll have some street cred.



I am not saying it is completely true or that I agree with it or that it reflects my sentiments. He's just being funny by being rude. But the basic message is true. Due to the open source movement, people have come to expect that everything should be free. They want whole operating systems free of cost. Some people have this mentality that if you can have Ubuntu for free, why not Vista?
Well, because Vista is the prime money maker for a huge corporation. They cannot afford to give it for free. They do not spend all that hard work and time to start a charity programme.

There is nothing wrong with using and supporting open source software. I use a lot of OSS on my Mac and I'm happy with all of them. But then I also have quite a lot of paid software, some of which may not justify their cost, but I am happy with them too. Those who want an entire operating system for free, get a Linux distro - and I am sure you already are using one. Just don't post crap telling that Microsoft is stealing your money and that they should give away entire operating systems for free. Every corporation out there in the world is looking to "steal" your money. But you won't stop wearing clothes, will you!


----------



## mehulved (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Well, because Vista is the prime money maker for a huge corporation.


 Rest I agree but not this one. Not in the least.


----------



## shantanu (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Using OSS is very good, even i never used MAC , but seeing its technology and usge i appreciae it also,

windows Vista is just a Product from Microsoft, and not full M$ is only Vista,
There are hudreds of products and Updates which are launched by M$, Windows Xp is also M$ product, everyone uses that..

I completely agree to Aryayush about what he said.. and to Tech_yur_future too.. but the thing is that why an OS is compared to songs and PORN, 
and i think in forum in evry tenth post i found the word PORN ,why, guys this is not a PORN forum, that some people think that speaking this word or giving examples increases their BOLDness and reputation and impression...

Every OS has its own specialities , Critisizing can never be a solution..

The clean your talk will be , better you are respected...


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				tech_your_future said:
			
		

> Rest I agree but not this one. Not in the least.


I meant to say Windows is the prime money maker for Microsoft. Vista has just been launched. I am sure sales can only increase - unless, of course, people across the world suddenly see the light and start switching to Mac and Linux - but that is not very likely to happen any time soon.


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

1.Vista will Stay no matter what. I know ppl still using win98 so vista might be in use even after 5yrs 
2. I thought MAC is expensive...PLZ confirm.
3. What happened to the "rumour" hat Mac is being tweaked to run on X86?


----------



## mehulved (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> 2. I thought MAC is expensive...PLZ confirm.


not at all. People do not include the price of the OS then say that Mac is expensive.
If you include the price of windows to the same hardware then it totals up to almost the same. But, I guess there's no low end hardware available for Mac. But, people today easily spend 25-30K, atleast the middle class does. So, it's not so expensive for them.
But, if you need a very low price rig then PC is the only choice, with linux or pirated windows.


			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> 3. What happened to the "rumour" hat Mac is being tweaked to run on X86?


 Intel macs have started shipping since long. AFAIK, new macs are only available on Intel platform now. But, that would be x86_64 so no x86 macs right?


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				tech_your_future said:
			
		

> not at all. People do not include the price of the OS then say that Mac is expensive.
> If you include the price of windows to the same hardware then it totals up to almost the same. But, I guess there's no low end hardware available for Mac. But, people today easily spend 25-30K, atleast the middle class does. So, it's not so expensive for them.
> But, if you need a very low price rig then PC is the only choice, with linux or pirated windows.
> Intel macs have started shipping since long. AFAIK, new macs are only available on Intel platform now. But, that would be x86_64 so no x86 macs right?




So...MACs can be pirated ?


----------



## Ajatshatru (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

vista chalega nahiin dodega, kuuch waqt ki baat hai


----------



## mehulved (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> So...MACs can be pirated ?


 Not so easily. Macs users can throw more light on this.


----------



## amitava82 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

someone said that vista can do file search better n looks good than WinXP. If thats the reason we need a new version of Windows (which i believe is hilarious excuse to release a new OS), I'd suggest get a desktop search software n google some theme. you can customize your WinXP as cool as Vista (even mac, linux whatever you want). JUST FACE IT. ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY. i completely agree with freshseasons's points.


----------



## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista will go on . with fire it's matter of time


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> I thought MAC is expensive...PLZ confirm.


The cheapest Mac is the Mac Mini which is priced at Rs. 33,000. When you include the display, keyboard and mouse - it will come to around Rs. 40,000-45,000. (Depends on the quality of your display.)
I do not doubt that a computer that has similar hardware specification to the Mac Mini might be a tad cheaper than it, but there are several things to consider:
1. *The software.* Mac OS X is the best operating system on the planet and frankly, the price of Rs. 40,000 is damn cheap if it can afford the satisfaction of running Mac OS X. Even a PC worth Rs. 2 lac cannot buy you that feeling. No viruses or malware, extremely stable, zero learning curve, elegant design, completely functional out of the box and better software than on Windows. I have a MacBook Pro that cost me Rs. 1,47,000 and it was a total pain to pay that much for it. But today, after having used it for more than half a year, I can proudly say that it was the best way to spend my money. I bought the best laptop in the market at that time and I am completely satisfied with it. Am I ever going to buy a PC in future? Not if I am paid to do so!
2. *The experience.* Apple's machine are not just about the hardware or just about the software. It is about the integration of the two. The software knows everything about the hardware it's running on and vice-versa. The result: rock solid stability.
3. *Value of intagibles.* Is there any value for a person coming to sit near you to ask you about your laptop and saying that it is incredible? Any substitute for the feeling of happiness when a computer does something that you expected to take half an hour in five minutes? There are a lot of such intangibles. I was working on my laptop one night and my brother hit me from behind and flicked the light switch off and ran away. The keyboard backlight came on and I just continued working. It was I who laughed at him.  Once I was watching a DVD and he pressed the 'Eject' button on the keyboard. The movie paused and it asked me whether I was sure I wanted to eject the disk. I just pressed the 'Play' button on my Apple Remote and the movie started playing as if nothing has happened. And I don't even know what state my MBP would have been in had it not been for the magnetised power cord. There are a lot of such things that I cannot possibly mention here.
4. *The support.* Apple has one of the best customer support networks out there. When my MacBook Pro arrived at my house, it had a faulty latch. The lid used to pop open by itself. I phoned AppleCare and they picked it from my house and returned it within three days. And you know what, they replaced the whole display. Why? Because replacing the display is faster than opening it up and replacing the latch - and they did not want to keep me waiting. goobimama (Milind) had to send his iBook to AppleCare and they gave him a PowerBook as a replacement till his iBook was fixed. Can you put a price on convenience?
5. *You can run Windows and Linux* within Mac OS X, without even the need for a restart.

I could go on and on and on. People complain about how Apple's computers cannot be upgraded. To hell with it. I don't care. I have a computer and it works fine and dandy and has the potential to do so for many years to come. I think this is a great positive point that users are not allowed to mess with the hardware, ruining the stability of the system in the process. How many times do people complain on this forum itself that they installed a new graphics card and their system is constantly restarting from that point on or the display is garbled or some other problem? When you think your computer needs an overhaul, sell it on eBay. Macs have an awesome resale value when sold outside India or online.



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> What happened to the "rumour" hat Mac is being tweaked to run on X86?


It has been running on Intel 32-bit and 64-bit processors for quite some time now. If you are talking about running it on a PC, that is possible too but you will have an unstable, buggy system and it is illegal. Plus, it is not the easiest job in the world to install it.



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> So...MACs can be pirated ?


Yes, the operating system can be pirated and so can all the other software you use on it. However, not many people pirate the operating system because at Rs. 5,000, it is dirt cheap and Mac users generally have a strong sense of loyalty towards Apple.

My advice: DO NOT LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME. Try it yourself. Go to any Apple Authorised Reseller near you and ask them to give you a demo. They will show it to you in as much detail you prefer and you can really get a feel for the system. And then use the brain God has endowed you with to make a decision. In India, most people buy Nokia phones and use Windows 98. If you are one of those, Macs are not for you. If you are willing to think different, however, give it a shot. 

And do read this article. It is the most accurate one I have ever seen:

*utilware.com/switching_files/shapeimage_3.png


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^^^ why are u hijacking the thread again, as if u got a job in apple viral marketing team.

Macs can be pirated. Just go to Google & search for OSX86 project


----------



## praka123 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista is not selling as expected.that's all.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Ofcourse its not. most of the offices & bussiness wait for the first batch of Fixes (Read SP1) before deploying. It's been only 2 month of its release. You cannot expect it to over come the sales of XP so easily

The thing is, everyone wants to go with Aero glass, it's a misconception that Vista requirs a graphics card to *run*. Well, it requirs only to run aero glass not the OS itself. You yourself know whats the condition of graphics card in the indian market out there & how much they sale. onboard still prevails....just wait for 2 months, the biggest graphics chip company Intel is relesing GMA X3000 along with AMD X1250 & nVidia Geforce 7 based onboard graphics  which will lower the cost required to use Vista. The hardware is out there but not the awareness

I see lot of people coming to computer shops, asking for Vista but then falling back cos they think it needs a graphics card a must which is usually out of there budget.


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Pray tell me what is the use of Vista without its biggest, most important feature?

Anyone can install Google Desktop Search and have Live Search like functionality.


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> The cheapest Mac is the Mac Mini which is priced at Rs. 33,000. When you include the display, keyboard and mouse - it will come to around Rs. 40,000-45,000. (Depends on the quality of your display.)
> I do not doubt that a computer that has similar hardware specification to the Mac Mini might be a tad cheaper than it, but there are several things to consider:.............


I Do accept everything you say....But telme howmuch affordable are MAC s/ws?

[Honestly...I was cut off from the tech wrld for some time...I even forgot my forum id n i've registered in as a newbie]

Are teh MAC OS s/w as abundant as for win or as cheap(read as free) as for LINUX????
----------------------------------------------
I know I am deviating frm the topic.... I looked for a "Clone thread" option...cldn't find it


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

^^^ This is already posted so many times. Aero is not the only biggest feature of Vista

1) DirectX 10

2) Windows Aero, GPU based UI

3) WPF, DWM

4) IPv6 based compleately re-writen networking stack which results in faster & safer networking then before in Windows

5) Compleately new HD Audio stack, full 32bit full duplex complience. Other OS have AC'97 still. Not even Soundblaster

6) New I\O stack (not talking about readyboos etc here)

7) TPM Support

8 ) EFI support

9) Full drive encryption in form of BitLocker

10) Windows Imaging Component 

11) Windows Color System

12) Windows Mobility Center

13) Windows SideShow

14) InkCanvas 

15) HD Photo & XPS

16) Internet Information Services 7

17) Windows Meeting Space

Points 1 to 6 alone make it worth upgrading from XP


----------



## shashank4u (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Most of the people can't upgrade to vista becoz of its heavy RAM requiremets..

even at 1 gb  RAM its performance is not that cool..

so i prefer to stick and work fast in XP rather than crawling in VISTA .


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> I Do accept everything you say....But telme howmuch affordable are MAC s/ws?
> 
> [Honestly...I was cut off from the tech wrld for some time...I even forgot my forum id n i've registered in as a newbie]
> 
> Are teh MAC OS s/w as abundant as for win or as cheap(read as free) as for LINUX????


No, they aren't as abundant as in Windows. But consider this - there are several chat clients in Windows that support many protocols like Miranda and Trillian and others. But there is only one I know of on the Mac, Adium. But Adium is better than any of the Windows clients and every person who uses a Mac and IM uses Adium. It is open source and free, of course. You have every sort of application on the Mac platform, but you do not have as many choices as in Windows. But the applications are generally much better than their Windows counterparts. There is an application called QuickSilver on the Mac. If you buy a Mac, that is the first software you should install. It is also free and it is the most useful software in the world. And it has no replacement on the Windows platform.

And then there is the huge advantage Mac OS X has over Windows and Linux. You can run any application in the world on a Mac, even Windows and Linux applications. I am not kidding. Look at this.

As for free applications, yes - there are a lot of free and open source applications for the Mac. And they are very good too. Plus, you have these websites that come up from time to time such as MacApper, Macheist, Macappaday, etc. which give you paid applications for free. 

And, of course, you can also pirate any paid software you want if you so wish to. Just like Windows, there are dedicated forums that discuss warez and cracks for Mac applications.


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Yes, the operating system can be pirated and so can all the other software you use on it. However, not many people pirate the operating system because at Rs. 5,000, it is dirt cheap and Mac users generally have a strong sense of loyalty towards Apple.



Apple sells OS software with every MAC sold, no apple computer comes without a copy of OS, so piracy does not affect them that much ,and this is the reason they care less. On the other hand windows has to do all the messy wga thing because a normal PC user is not forced to buy a computer with windows installed. Thats why piracy affects them on a larger scale.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> No, they aren't as abundant as in Windows. But consider this - there are several chat clients in Windows that support many protocols like Miranda and Trillian and others. But there is only one I know of on the Mac, Adium. But Adium is better than any of the Windows clients and every person who uses a Mac and IM uses Adium. It is open source and free, of course. You have every sort of application on the Mac platform, but you do not have as many choices as in Windows. But the applications are generally much better than their Windows counterparts. There is an application called QuickSilver on the Mac. If you buy a Mac, that is the first software you should install. It is also free and it is the most useful software in the world. And it has no replacement on the Windows platform.


 
Here is the thing, that Adium you are talking about is based on LibGAIM, again I don't think adium is giving anything back to LibGAIM. Besides that so called cool chat client doesn't support webcam or VoIP chat.


----------



## piyush gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> As for free applications, yes - there are a lot of free and open source applications for the Mac. And they are very good too. Plus, you have these websites that come up from time to time such as MacApper, Macheist, Macappaday, etc. which give you paid applications for free.


 Paid applications for free how?



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> And, of course, you can also pirate any paid software you want if you so wish to. Just like Windows, there are dedicated forums that discuss warez and cracks for Mac applications.


 
Looks like Mac Marketing Freak
__________


			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> so called cool chat client doesn't support webcam or VoIP chat.


 
cool chat client doesn't support webcam and VoIP then what it do?
LOL...

and he is saying its better than any of windows chat clients ROFL...

sorry can't stop laughing...

LOL LOL LOL...


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				tarey_g said:
			
		

> Apple sells OS software with every MAC sold, no apple computer comes without a copy of OS, so piracy does not affect them that much ,and this is the reason they care less. On the other hand windows has to do all the messy wga thing because a normal PC user is not forced to buy a computer with windows installed. Thats why piracy affects them on a larger scale.


Leopard is being released soon and I will buy it, of course. Every other Mac user I know is planning to buy it too. The reason, as I have already mentioned before, is that the price is very low and existing users get it at a discount. Plus, Mac users have a sense of loyalty towards Apple because we love our Macs. The same cannot be said for PC users though.
And no matter how you try to spin it, the fact remains that Microsoft does not give a damn how the user experience for their customers. All they care for is how they can cash in more money.



			
				piyush gupta said:
			
		

> Paid applications for free how?


I don't know and don't care. All I know is that I got a lot of genuine paid software for free from these sites and that's all I care about.



			
				piyush gupta said:
			
		

> Looks like Mac Marketing Freak


 What do you mean?



			
				piyush gupta said:
			
		

> cool chat client doesn't support webcam and VoIP then what it do?
> LOL...
> 
> and he is saying its better than any of windows chat clients ROFL...
> ...


Plug a ball of smelly cloth in your mouth. I am sure it will subside.

Yes, Adium does not feature video and audio chatting and that is a much requested feature that everyone is asking for. Hopefully they'll add it soon.

We can use iChat and Skype for audio/video chatting though and Adium for text chats.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Leopard is being released soon and I will buy it, of course. Every other Mac user I know is planning to buy it too. The reason, as I have already mentioned before, is that the price is very low and existing users get it at a discount. Plus, Mac users have a sense of loyalty towards Apple because we love our Macs. The same cannot be said for PC users though.
> And no matter how you try to spin it, the fact remains that Microsoft does not give a damn how the user experience for their customers. All they care for is how they can cash in more money.


 
Pwned again , you are yourself admiting in public that you are a freeking macboy


> I don't know and don't care. All I know is that I got a lot of genuine paid software for free from these sites and that's all I care about.


 
 Talking about cracks & pirating apps is not allowed in the forum. Must be by posting 1000 Pro-Apple posts in various forums & doing viral marketing for apple. This thing is same with all macboys, they are the best marketing agent apple has



> Plug a ball of smelly cloth in your mouth. I am sure it will subside.
> 
> Yes, Adium does not feature video and audio chatting and that is a much requested feature that everyone is asking for. Hopefully they'll add it soon.
> 
> We can use iChat and Skype for audio/video chatting though and Adium for text chats.


.

Pwned again, angoor khatte hain boy, grow up

You said Adium is better then the chat clients available on Windows from Yahoo\MSN\AOL etc.....for what, text chat...thats toooooo 1998  . Abe what good is a chat client without these features in 2007. U must be blind or something cos i really don't see how u find adium so much better then Windows based chat clients

& yeah, iChat which only works with AOL or .mac & Skype which only works with..well Skype. Did you forget to read that i mentioned Yahoo & MSN in my above post


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Pwned again , you are yourself admiting in public that you are a freeking macboy


Actually, I am not just admitting it, I am pretty proud of the fact that I like something that is better than every other computer out there. I am happy that I know how to choose between good and great. As for my being a 'freeking macboy', whatever that means, I never said that I am.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Talking about cracks & pirating apps is not allowed in the forum


A dazzling display of language skills again! These are not pirated applications. *These are genuine paid software being distributed for free with valid registration numbers and the permission of the developers.* I am not even shy of giving the links: *www.macheist.com/
*www.macappaday.com/



> Pwned again, angoor khatte hain boy, grow up
> 
> You said Adium is better then the chat clients available on Windows from Yahoo\MSN\AOL etc.....for what, text chat...thats toooooo 1998  . Abe what good is a chat client without these features in 2007. U must be blind or something cos i really don't see how u find adium so much better then Windows based chat clients
> 
> & yeah, iChat which only works with AOL or .mac & Skype which only works with..well Skype. Did you forget to read that i mentioned Yahoo & MSN in my above post


Adium is a multi-protocol chat client. It is not equal to Yahoo! or MSN. And we have webcam support for the MSN Messenger on the Mac. So please keep that trap of yours shut when you know nothing about something, which is pretty much always.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Actually, I am not just admitting it, I am pretty proud of the fact that I like something that is better than every other computer out there. I am happy that I know how to choose between good and great. As for my being a 'freeking macboy', whatever that means, I never said that I am.
> 
> A dazzling display of language skills again! These are not pirated applications. *These are genuine paid software being distributed for free with valid registration numbers and the permission of the developers.* I am not even shy of giving the links: *www.macheist.com/
> *www.macappaday.com/


 
what else can we expect from you in this thread which was about Windows Vista but now hacked by macboys  



> Adium is a multi-protocol chat client. It is not equal to Yahoo! or MSN. *And we have webcam support for the MSN Messenger on the Mac*. So please keep that trap of yours shut when you know nothing about something, which is pretty much always.


 
pwned again, you sure u r not lieing


----------



## piyush gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

@gx

Why we r arguing with him

looks like a child who ust says one thing i like it thats why its best

I DONT CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK
i know it is the best
ya we accept it is the best for u


But hey i feel he gives something to Apple
Guess what?

At least telling them 

Please do some marketing for Mac and me otherwise i have to go to each & every person on forum and post some 1000 posts so that they understand what Mac

U talking about he lying i feel me is much idiot than a lier 

Arya grow up baby
with having 1000 posts and more than 100 reps 
u r supposed to be a mature guy


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

he got the reps from other macboys, who else.....piyush just search in the forum. He posts only regarding Mac, he knows nothing about computing technology or anything. I might be banned by *the* Mod for this post...

By the way, he turned 18 just a few days ago. Nothing compared to the other mature guys here.

So where were we....ya, Vista was released to public on Jan 30, not even 2 months ago. It is not yet cracked and as we know thats how the average joe in india gets his OS 

The thing is with WGA & Genuine Windows campaign, people are finally learning something , the benifits of going genuine. What they need now is awareness about which version do they require. Everyone should not just jump at Ultimate edition when Home premium is enough for them.


----------



## piyush gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Feels he is a true spammer(Mac spammer)

Great news for Mac 
Koi Mac ko bhi spam karta hai

Mods please dont ban me for this post


----------



## iMav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I might be banned by *the* Mod for this post...


samajdar ko ishara enough


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Uh... I am not interested in replying to the useless comments but here is the software which allows you to have video conferencing on the MSN network:

*cmq.qc.ca/4w/amsn/


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista has become the craze here in Lucknow's computer market. Every 2nd guy who comes to buy a computer weather its assambled or branded asks weather it will run Vista or not.

I saw one uncle who came to the shop to buy a PC for his son, & decided to get a HP Laptop just cos it had Vista as an option.

With the campaign from MS, people are slowly but steadily learning that they can get a HP\DELL\Lenovo computer with Vista installed & they don't have to worry about the service part cos well these brands provide it.

Hardcore power users like us & students will always assemble computers & crack Vista anyway , just cos we like to tweak our PC the way we like it.

Linux is gaining acceptence but not among the consumar grade users. 98% Linux users that I have seen here are students learning Linux or preparing for Red Hat certification.



			
				arya said:
			
		

> Uh... I am not interested in replying to the useless comments


 
Don't worry, we can understand.

About aMSN. Its not official, right? Well it does the job, i hope there is aYahoo too  or maybe it will be developed in the future soon


----------



## mail2and (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				piyush gupta said:
			
		

> Not only he posts stupid childish stuffs
> he is actually a child
> 
> Feels he is a true spammer(Mac spammer)
> ...



I would request you to stay on topic. The rules clearly say that no personal attacks will be allowed on anyone.


----------



## piyush gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

After a no. of s/w

You finally got something on Mac equals to Yahoo or MSN for windows

cheers!!!
__________


			
				mail2and said:
			
		

> I would request you to stay on topic. The rules clearly say that no personal attacks will be allowed on anyone.


 
Post edited i be there on topic


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

@ piyush, 

he got something similar to Windows Live messenger on Windows, but not Yahoo.

Well, could be his personal choice. Not everyone is Yahoo user. Hey isn't MSN a product of the M$


----------



## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Vista is gud OS


----------



## iMav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Hey isn't MSN a product of the M$


 they just might quote some 1 saying that chatting was an apple concept and MS copied it and used it .... u know how MS and Apple are ... apple thinks ... MS thinks differently  and uses it


----------



## nileshgr (Mar 9, 2007)

*Vista Doobega*

Doobega Vista Kyonki WOh bahut mehenga hai aur resource khaane wala. Bharat mein to WOH shaayad hi chalega.


----------



## piyush gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> @ piyush,
> 
> he got something similar to Windows Live messenger on Windows, but not Yahoo.
> 
> Well, could be his personal choice. Not everyone is Yahoo user. Hey isn't MSN a product of the M$


 
Ya MSN is product of MS

now apple will say hamara idea tha aur MS ne chori kiya


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



> Doobega Vista Kyonki WOh bahut mehenga hai aur resource khaane wala. Bharat mein to WOH shaayad hi chalega.


 
Well, yeah..but this is where i say awareness is required. I am runing Vista Ultimate fine on a Pentium 4 3.06 GHz computer with 1 GB RAM & GeForce FX 5900XT. This computer was bought in 2003, almost 3 + years old

Sourabh installed Vista (without aero) on his laptop which is again old according to todays standerd. 

What we need is awareness that Vista doesn't require a high end system. 512 MB is enough to run it & 2x512 MB RAM doesn't cost much these days. 1 GB is the sweet spot, while 2 GB is the sweetest spot. But then again, 1 GB will do for the next year easily.

U are right, Vista is quite costly which is something I hate MS for but then again, every software out there costs a lot isn't it. Have u seen the cost of Adobe photoshop or Autodesk Autocad 2007


----------



## nileshgr (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Well, yeah..but this is where i say awareness is required. I am runing Vista Ultimate fine on a Pentium 4 3.06 GHz computer with 1 GB RAM & GeForce FX 5900XT. This computer was bought in 2003, almost 3 + years old
> 
> Sourabh installed Vista (without aero) on his laptop which is again old according to todays standerd.
> 
> ...


many people like me have p3. wht abt them?


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

U ppl read Calvin & hobbes?

Hobbes is a ferocious tiger to Calvin...But to others it is only a stuffed doll....




No offence meant.....And I feel so proud to have started teh MAC topic....Narayn narayan...


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

Microsoft made a universal chat client and it has become very widely used. They ported it to OS X but crippled it severely. The guys behind aMSN made an alternative for those whom MSN Messenger is really important, i.e. the switchers.

And you guys (gx_saurav and piyush gupta) can carry on with the flaming. I don't mind. Only the truth hurts, so these comments are in no way hurtful. Keep going...


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



> U ppl read Calvin & hobbes?
> 
> Hobbes is a ferocious tiger to Calvin...But to others it is only a stuffed doll....
> 
> ...


 
^^^^^ Didn't get u



> And you guys (gx_saurav and piyush gupta) can carry on with the flaming. I don't mind. Only the truth hurts, so these comments are in no way hurtful. Keep going...


 
angoor khatte hain 

Read your own posts, then our reply to it. & Plz do not bring mac discussion here again. This thread is about Why Vista will be a success, or not. U have mentioned your point of view which is....well, funny so now let the others mention theirs.



> many people like me have p3. wht abt them?


 
Pentium 3 was released in 1998 If I m correct. I am sorry, your computer is quite old. You are better off with Windows XP SP2 with 512 MB RAM or Linux. You are not the only one like this, & besides just note down what do u need from an OS, if XP\Linux is doing it for u just fine, then stick to what u have.


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				sivarap said:
			
		

> U ppl read Calvin & hobbes?
> 
> Hobbes is a ferocious tiger to Calvin...But to others it is only a stuffed doll....
> 
> ...


I hope you actually learnt something.


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ^^^^^ Didn't get u
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good
__________


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> I hope you actually learnt something.



Yes...I did learn that u like MAC and many don't


----------



## shantanu (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

HEY GX_saurav .. you are talking about reps of aryayush... i saw your miserabled ID you even didnt had two balls and above 2000 posts and in this ID of your you got three balls in just 425 posts... seems a little ackward....

well i have no right to say all this... to you but i think you should not insult anyone... 

Piyush.. i think you are speaking too loud on topic...


coming back to topic.. Vista is gaining its speed with time and will surely be well settled in one year.....


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> HEY GX_saurav .. you are talking about reps of aryayush... i saw your miserabled ID you even didnt had two balls and above 2000 posts and in this ID of your you got three balls in just 425 posts... seems a little ackward....


 
that was old ID gxsaurav which was banned due to kicking the arse of iPhone & calling the wraith of macboys

this is new ID gx_saurav


----------



## shantanu (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

both both r u only .... i dont want to personanlly blame you but the thing is you are an old member,, and + an MVP than you must gain a higher level .. and should not hipe anyone..


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> HEY GX_saurav .. you are talking about reps of aryayush... i saw your miserabled ID you even didnt had two balls and above 2000 posts and in this ID of your you got three balls in just 425 posts... seems a little ackward....


1. Reps really do not matter, nor are they the deciding factor for who is good person and who is not.

2. When you beg for reps in your signature and are repped on the grand occassion of your 50th, 100th and 150th post by your _chelas_, they tend to accumulate pretty fast. So having three jewels in 425 posts in not the most difficult job in the world.

3. I am used to his derogatory remarks. It is a classic fallback. Whenever, you run out of points (because you support things which do not have any points in their favour), just start ranting about it and someone is bound to shut up.


----------



## iMav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

can v b please b back on the topic for a few posts so tht the admins dont think tht we r again fighting 

thoda topic k bare mein then v shall continue the fight again ...


----------



## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

 That was funny.


----------



## sivarap (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> That was funny.


 

eh?


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Plus, Mac users have a sense of loyalty towards Apple because we love our Macs. *The same cannot be said for PC users though*.



You love your macs and we hate our PC's?

How can you make such generalized comment for a big community which has different type of users all of different kind, "all mac users are loyal but this is not true for PC users" . Awesome thought. I dont know but loyalty depends on person to person , but if you go with such generalization then i know one thing too , 
*"A very large percentage of Mac users act like Mac users."*

And thank god according to you pc users are different. As a consumer, idiotically following some company and buying any product because it was from xyz company is totally foolish. Wise users have choices and they choose any software or platform according to their needs which can change time to time. Loyalty to a multi billion corp goes to drain when your hard earned money is on stake.




			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> And no matter how you try to spin it, the fact remains that Microsoft does not give a damn how the user experience for their customers. All they care for is how they can cash in more money.



All business care abt the same , more money . Be it any company , which includes apple. Thinking that 'a long time successful business can run by a company by harassing its buyers' comes form a screwed up mind of a little kid.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

tarey, man repped u for your post 

like mav3 said, can we plz go back to topic


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 9, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

I dont believe in reps dude . I will disable my rep soon when they change the dull grey color ofthe dot for disabled rep to something else . 

Say no to reps


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 10, 2007)

*Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?*

whatever, i simply liked how u kick arse


----------



## Raaabo (Mar 10, 2007)

Changed the name of the topic... we want it to be more Google friendly in English 

and what's with the stupid Mac Vs PC arguement in a "Will Vista be a success or not" thread? Will all you fanboys just take a break for a change??

Raaabo


----------



## praka123 (Mar 10, 2007)

whatever-ppl thinks they are getting the bleeding edge technology and world's best and superior OS in getting Windows Vista albeit the DRM trap included with.
Vista will be Flying-though personally I'd liked ppl Use Free Software and GNU/Linux.but what 2 say-something FREE is considered inferior by the technically superior human beings.


----------



## mediator (Mar 10, 2007)

^ I agree!


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 10, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> whatever-ppl thinks they are getting the bleeding edge technology and world's best and superior OS in getting Windows Vista albeit the DRM trap included with.
> Vista will be Flying-though personally I'd liked ppl Use Free Software and GNU/Linux.but what 2 say-something FREE is considered inferior by the technically superior human beings.


 
1) That DRM crap is not due to Microsoft, it's due to RIAA & MPAA. Microsoft is forced to include it. If you do not play Protected Content U don't have to worry. Other OS will have to do it too soon, & Linux might not be able to do it at all, means no HD Videos on Linux leagally.

2) They are indeed getting superior technology. Have u seen the linux SATA drivers out there, or better yet the condition of Audio drivers? you will understand why Windows is a superior desktop OS then other competitive OS


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 10, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) That DRM crap is not due to Microsoft, it's due to RIAA & MPAA. Microsoft is forced to include it. If you do not play Protected Content U don't have to worry. Other OS will have to do it too soon, & Linux might not be able to do it at all, means no HD Videos on Linux leagally.



No use I have posted this three times in the forum. DRM crap is only for DRM'd content, and soon to play leagal HD content every Os will need to include something like this. The non DRM stuff works as it does on other OS,  the DRM hd content offered by the studios will currently not play on other systems. The crap is due to RIAA/MPAA and thankfully no one loves them. Personally i wud never buy any crippled DRM content.


----------



## praka123 (Mar 10, 2007)

but GNU/Linux FLOSS stands for Freedom-the essence of which is trying to be mutilated through DRM-eventually this will fall off the way.many of u will *not *like below links.but posting
DRM:
*defectivebydesign.org
Software Patents:
*nosoftwarepatents.com


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 10, 2007)

We know what GNU Linux stands for, I know it, you also know it, now plz go & tell this to MPAA & RIAA. Weather DRM content will be available on Linux legally & officially is still a question. MacOS X Leopard is coming & even that will include DRM, it has to else it will fail in competition to Windows in playing legal HD DVDs on a computer.

So, we are back to the topic, *DRM is not a reason which can decline Vista's sales*. There will always be non-DRM content availabled via P2P or people's own recordings etc. If you don't like DRM, plz do a good deed & stop supporting it.

By the way, a 29" TV is always better to watch a HD Movie then a 20" Computer Monitor


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> By the way, a 29" TV is always better to watch a HD Movie then a 20" Computer Monitor



If the 29" Display is also HD .


----------



## subratabera (Mar 11, 2007)

The Next Hurdle for Desktop Linux


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 11, 2007)

@ subratabera

That post is right, Linux does needs to do something about HD contents. People should understand that Vista is not the reason for all this DRM crap.

I still see a solution though, Ubuntu for Rs 1000 with codecs & HD support in it. They can easily pay the license per copy in that prise & also make profit. Rs 1000 is still much less compared to that of MacOS X (in which case you need a new computer) or Windows Vista


----------



## praka123 (Mar 11, 2007)

why Does anyone wants a free software OS to be a paid one?Let the Free SOftware and Open SOurce to stay here.both DRM and propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 11, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.



Great everyone wants things free , but as a MCA student and a programmer i am going to starve in this future. Then maybe MC Donalds should give free burgers/pizzaz to me and others like me to eat (free until u dont sell it further) coz i dont want to die from hunger. 

You are getting free os , be greatful . But not everything in the world can be free, are you working in some company for free? or you are in a school which doesn't take fees? I wont mind a free benz .


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 11, 2007)

> why Does anyone wants a free software OS to be a paid one?Let the Free SOftware and Open SOurce to stay here


 
From what I know, Linux means freedom as in free speach, not as in free beer, however what u r saying shows u mean linux as in Free beer

Oh comon, users won't be against paying for such an OS. They get the freedom of using whatever they like & all the benifits & just by paying a modest fees they can get properity codecs etc.

get out of the mentality that MS is evil first of all, MS & linux can work together though only those distro which provide paid Linux


----------



## mehulved (Mar 11, 2007)

I don't think linux will ever include proprietory softwares out of the box. Because, yeah, OSS community believes in free as in free speech. 
But, it is possible that ubuntu may be a paid distro in the future.
tarey nowhere is it mentioned that a linux distro or OSS software needs to be free of cost. No one wants a developer to starve. The word 'free' always refers to 4 freedoms not to free of cost


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 11, 2007)

tech_your_future said:
			
		

> tarey nowhere is it mentioned that a linux distro or OSS software needs to be free of cost.



Yes sure, i was just replying the guy who said "*propreitory system *need to be &cked off from this planet." Which IMO is not practical.


----------



## mediator (Mar 11, 2007)

@tarey - You shud read this Who really writes linux and think again on ur statements in post #143!


----------



## praka123 (Mar 11, 2007)

this question of earning daily bread n butter for programmers/developers are currently well answered by the employees of *ubuntu.com
they are paid well.the canonical gets money by the software subscription model and services.
The Point I want to say is FLOSS is a movement initated by intellectuals who respect humanity and individual's right's,freedom.On the Other hand,RIAA or whoever are doing DRM for their benefits that the common men need to pay to get a restricted usage--- of what he brought thinking its his own and its his freedom,liberty to use it.SO Let the RIAA or DRM menace move out off the way?why hurt a free movement?

DO U support India to be in British Raj again?I felt exactly the same with DRM etched on to our Softwares and hardwares.It is DRM which is ruling U,not Ur freedom.and the best way acc. to propreitory supporters is to accept DRM for limited freedom.Today they probed DRM,tomorrow what all things can they be able to do to captive propreitory supporters?


I can say that Free Software/OSS offers lot of job oppurtunities and assures that without propreitory software system the planet will thrive its journey with OPen Minds combinely develop and share there knowledge to reach better heights which the propreitory model can only dream.
RedHat is a company which makes and give services for FOSS softwares.they *DO* pay their programmers/devels the salary and perks like other companies.even afaik those individuals who make the world's biggest Free OS-Debian GNU/Linux makes money albeit they doing the service of packaging,developing,updating the Debian System in parallel too.
Another simple easy example is LAMP devels.do they do their job for free?they are paid well.
SO FLOSS means not full volunteer work for devels.it is their attitude which moves big projects like Debian going.when U understand the virtues of FLOSS by using these s/w in regular u get a better answer.
I posted those lines bcoz after using FLOSS and GNU/Linux,I felt my earlier usage of World's Best Propreitory OS made me a Luser.
sometime read below txt,may be a change in whole attitude can happen:

*www.newsforge.com/software/03/04/19/2128256.shtml?tid=11


> [SIZE=-1] "What motivates people to participate in the open source community? Is it creativity, or what? There's a lot of work involved, and the remuneration must be minimal. What do open source developers do for a source of income?" These questions were recently asked on a journalists' email list I belong to. Here is an edited version of my reply: [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=-1]
> Creativity is an important factor, but it is far from the only reason programmers "participate in the open source community." [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=-1]A majority of people who write open source code do it as part of their jobs. Apache was originally written and is still maintained primarily by network admins and programmers who need reliable, low-cost Web server software and believe it's better to pool their efforts than go it alone. Many Linux kernel improvements come from programmers who work for companies that depend on Linux in one way or another, ranging from small consulting firms up to multinationals like IBM, HP, and Computer Associates. Intel and AMD have helped the Linux kernel scale to multiple processors and support 64-bit CPUs. DARPA has partially funded development of the ReiserFS journaling file system (which I use) and has also provided support for OpenBSD and some OpenBSD-generated security features like OpenSSH (which I also use), but seems to have had some problems recently with public comments made by OpenBSD project leader Theo DeRaadt, and may withdraw some or all of its OpenBSD funding. [/SIZE]
> ...


----------



## freebird (Mar 11, 2007)

*“Commercial” is not the opposite of Free-Libre / Open Source Software (FLOSS)*


that also is a good link for the protagonists of Propreitory System.Also a "Free" book for all:
*en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FLOSS_Concept_Booklet


*
*


----------



## praka123 (Mar 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> From what I know, Linux means freedom as in free speach, not as in free beer, however what u r saying shows u mean linux as in Free beer


there are free beer also,which runs completely by Volunteer support and sponsorship-I left to point out-
it is Debian Project.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

@praka123

nice explanation.

But comon linux guys, whats going on here. Whats the poing of explaing all this here, we are discussing why Vista will run or fail not why Linux will run or Weather Linux coders get paid or not.


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 12, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> @tarey - You shud read this Who really writes linux and think again on ur statements in post #143!



Yes i have already read that , but is it practical to just kick propreitory system ? Not all software development can go this way . How will the companies survive who make their own software products from zero and sell it. Not every one is IBM from start, killing propreitory system is killing emerging small software development companies.



> Open Source -
> The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form. Where some form of a product is not distributed with source code, there must be a well-publicized means of obtaining the source code for no more than a reasonable reproduction cost–preferably, downloading via the Internet without charge. The source code must be the preferred form in which a programmer would modify the program. Deliberately obfuscated source code is not allowed. Intermediate forms such as the output of a preprocessor or translator are not allowed.



If *everything *goes this way (according to praka123), *then the basic freedom is gone. You have taken away the freedom of the programmer for not to share his code*.
 Open source can not be forced and neither it is practical to go all propreitory, we live in a society where everyone has choices he can make. Making everything open source according to parka123 can never work.
__________


			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> DO U support India to be in British Raj again?I felt exactly the same with DRM etched on to our Softwares and hardwares.It is DRM which is ruling U,not Ur freedom.and the best way acc. to propreitory supporters is to accept DRM for limited freedom.Today they probed DRM,tomorrow what all things can they be able to do to captive propreitory supporters?



NO user can ever like DRM, so definitely dont count me in DRM lovers. 
About the British Raj i dont know, people with your "Forcing people to follow what you think is right" mentality can bring it back for sure, with a mix of Hitlershahi.


----------



## mediator (Mar 12, 2007)

tarey_g said:
			
		

> Yes i have already read that , *but is it practical to just kick propreitory system ?* Not all software development can go this way . How will the companies survive who make their own software products from zero and sell it. Not every one is IBM from start, killing propreitory system is killing emerging small software development companies.


Yes, that a very tough decision actually! It needs to pondered over n over. 
A small development company can develop proprietary software. But the target or the host of that software needs to be assured of the quality,reliabilty (i.e the code) of the software.

Microsoft apologises for serving malware
Norton found using rootkits! (use google)

How can one really trust a software if things as such can occur and go on unnoticed for a lotta time? As u know open-source doesn't necessarily means free software! So even if u develop Open-source software, then still u can earn money!

Neways this is a lil off-topic, but IMHO proprietary software also cant really give u that much bread becoz of piracy,cracks,reverse engineering etc! Here's a nice explanation from a commerce student.
So, if services is a big sector, and piracy in turn can help a company to popularise the product, then I guess open-source software can prove much more! In either ways, the companies will have to pay for the software to prove legality. And if there r honest citizens who respect laws, then they too will respect laws and pay for the software!

So if a person wants a software for free, then he'll get it for free defying any law that comes in between!


----------



## nepcker (Mar 12, 2007)

Mac OS X is around 5438746329875643965 times better than any version of Vista. Mac OS X is much more advanced than any other OS, Vista included. Here are my sets of reasons why Vista sucks
1) It's just a late copy of Mac OS X.
2) All the "new" features in Vista was present in OS X for years.
3) Vista comes in *ten* versions:


> 1) Windows Vista Starter Edition
> 2) Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
> 3) Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade
> 4) Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
> ...


Plus, there's the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Theres only one version of OSX.

Why is Vist better? UAC? Guaranteed to make you tear every hair out of your head.  Filp3D? A rip-off of OS X's Expose. Appearance? But OS X has had eye candy like this for years. Oh, Microsoft throws in a few enhancements. But Vista is still only an OS X clone — and a slightly inferior-looking one. Integrated Search? The Spotlight search engine does the same thing. Secure? Yeah, right. Gadgets? OS X had widgets for years.

	But even as Vista falls short in features that have long been part of Mac OS X, it’s about to lag even farther behind. Because Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard" is right around the corner. And with it will come an even richer set of features to make your experience with the Mac easier and more amazing.


----------



## praka123 (Mar 12, 2007)

Half knowledge is very bad.I can rant here about Linux as u say with mac.i am leaving the thread to continue.


----------



## aryayush (Mar 12, 2007)

nepcker, though I do agree with you that Mac OS X is superior to Vista, your reasons are pretty lame. The first and second one are the same reasons and the third one does not make Vista an inferior operating system. Yes, it makes it a complicated task to choose the right one for your needs, but that's about it. 

And I do not want to go into the specifics of why Mac OS X is superior because it will be off-topic and will only start a flame war. _(I cannot believe I just said that!)_


----------



## Aberforth (Mar 12, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Yes, it makes it a complicated task to choose the right one for your needs, but that's about it.
> [/i]



If I were to look from my point of view, I would say having more choices is better, I can decide on one which suits my needs best. If Microsoft made it easier in this front by say having only Vista Ultimate, it would have put the customers at a disadvantage as there would be a lot of users who wouldn't mind paying less for Home Premium which suits almost all of their needs.



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> But even as Vista falls short in features that have long been part of Mac OS X, it’s about to lag even farther behind. Because Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard" is right around the corner. And with it will come an even richer set of features to make your experience with the Mac easier and more amazing.



I understand your fervour with Mac but it does not really compare with Vista. Vista would run on cheaper hardware than a Mac which are almost always available everywhere. Macs aren't that compatible with non-apple approved hardware and nor do you have the customisability to choose you budget if you have a low one. While a Vista can run with Aero Glass on a Rs.58000 laptop. 



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> both DRM and propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.



I don't agree with DRM considering it is putting genuine users at a disadvantage rather than it's target. But the idea of no propriety software isn't very sensible, some of the best softwares are proprietary and money is a powerful motivator to make better and more powerful products. Recognition does not always work in all cases.


----------



## aryayush (Mar 12, 2007)

Aberforth said:
			
		

> If I were to look from my point of view, I would say having more choices is better, I can decide on one which suits my needs best. If Microsoft made it easier in this front by say having only Vista Ultimate, it would have put the customers at a disadvantage as there would be a lot of users who wouldn't mind paying less for Home Premium which suits almost all of their needs.


But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it. The max they should have done was to have two versions, the Home Basic and the full featured version. And the complicity is not just about choosing the right version, there are more things to  consider. The upgrade version would require you to not only have the install disk of Windows XP, but also install XP first every time you want to re-install Windows Vista. Plus, the basic version does not allow virtualisation. There is a whole bunch of factors you have to consider before you decide which version you want to purchase.
Compare it to Mac OS X which comes in one single, full fledged (better than Vista) version at just Rs. 5,000 and comes pre-loaded even on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini. It comes at a discount if you are upgrading from a previous version but it does not require you to have the previous version installed nor does it require the install disk of the previous version. You can also jump several versions. And you can install it on more than ten year old Macs. To top it off, it does not require any serial number or activation while installation, nor does it install a validation software on your system and neither does it pester you with 'Cancel' or 'Allow' dialog boxes.
That, my dear friend, is convenience and simplicity - not to mention good customer service. 



			
				Aberforth said:
			
		

> I understand your fervour with Mac but it does not really compare with Vista. Vista would run on cheaper hardware than a Mac which are almost always available everywhere. Macs aren't that compatible with non-apple approved hardware and nor do you have the customisability to choose you budget if you have a low one. While a Vista can run with Aero Glass on a Rs.58000 laptop.


Mac OS X runs on Rs. 60,000 MacBooks too, the full fledged system. It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter.


----------



## Aberforth (Mar 12, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it.



Maybe I wouldn't have minded. So far I have no plans on upgrading nor purchasing Vista seeing SUSE and Windows XP MCE suits me quite well. I could get a copy of OEM Windows Vista Ultimate for 70 pounds with the help of a British friend of mine. Technically it is legal and yet cheaper than the retail version of Windows Vista.



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Mac OS X runs on Rs. 60,000 MacBooks too, the full fledged system. It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter.



Well I don't intend to start another Mac vs Windows discussion, but hardware upgrading is still expensive for Macbook compared to PC Laptops. Moreover in the gaming and graphics front, Macbooks do not perform as well as PC laptops in the same price range as PC laptops have dedicated graphics cards installed. For a pleasure and normal home user who does not care if his/her computer does backflips as long as it gets the work done and is affordable, PC laptops are still the first choice. This is a firsthand experience, Macbook Pros are different matter as their price separates them quite some distance from the Rs. 60000 area.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

> Mac OS X is around 5438746329875643965 times better than any version of Vista. Mac OS X is much more advanced than any other OS, Vista included. Here are my sets of reasons why Vista sucks
> 1) It's just a late copy of Mac OS X.
> 2) All the "new" features in Vista was present in OS X for years.
> 3) Vista comes in *ten* versions:
> ...


 
To run that one version of MacOS X you need a Apple Mac throwing your current PC into garbage. Don't forget to add it's cost.

Many versions, as abeforth said targets a large audience. Not everyone wants a MCE or Aero based UI, so why pay for it. It's good that MS has relesed so many version, now if only they could create awareness to tell the customar which version is right for them.



> But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it


 
Yes, but you tell me, like I said above. Why pay for features that u do not need. In that case isn't home premium for less price a better option. It's nothing wrong in Vista having choices in so many forms. Don't compare it like MacOS X as nepcker said, MacOS run only on Apple hardware while Vista runs on so many hardware choices from so many Vendors.



> The upgrade version would require you to not only have the install disk of Windows XP, but also install XP first every time you want to re-install Windows Vista.


 
This is what Upgrade means.



> Plus, the basic version does not allow virtualisation


 
You can install VMWare on Vista basic & run it fine.



> Compare it to Mac OS X which comes in one single, full fledged (better than Vista) version at just Rs. 5,000 and comes pre-loaded even on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini


 
Like I said above, you will need to buy a new Apple Mac to run it. so it's a total of Rs 38k



> And you can install it on more than ten year old Macs


 
& can u run it properly on it? Andy's Mac mini doesn't have proper OpenGL 2.0 graphics & I doubt if it will support core animation.



> it does not require any serial number or activation while installation


 
Cos you have already paid for the hardware. Why do u forget that



> neither does it pester you with 'Cancel' or 'Allow' dialog boxes


 
it better to bug a user then to let him screw his computer



> It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter


you are not adding the cost of other components like Monitor keyboard, mouse, speakers, cam etc. It will easily cross 40k then


----------



## tarey_g (Mar 12, 2007)

Thread again heading towards BS.


----------



## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

Bulls*** aleart. nepcker is a certifed macboy, stop feeding the trolls


----------



## aryayush (Mar 12, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> To run that one version of MacOS X you need a Apple Mac throwing your current PC into garbage. Don't forget to add it's cost.
> 
> Many versions, as abeforth said targets a large audience. Not everyone wants a MCE or Aero based UI, so why pay for it. It's good that MS has relesed so many version, now if only they could create awareness to tell the customar which version is right for them.
> 
> ...


For once, I'll follow intelligent advice:





			
				FatBeing said:
			
		

> at the very mention of Apple, you go raising alarms. Grow up....
> ... remember this statement: Don't Feed The Troll.


So, I won't. I can only thank gx_saurav for his enlightening post - totally makes me want to go out and buy Vista today!


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## nileshgr (Mar 12, 2007)

I dont think that Vista will run here in India because many people have p3 which is probably not supported by Vista. In other countries it may run. However now the OSS is coming up. It will go ahead than Microsoft.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

The Unknown said:
			
		

> I dont think that Vista will run here in India because many people have p3 which is probably not supported by Vista. In other countries it may run. However now the OSS is coming up. It will go ahead than Microsoft.


 
Pentium 3  . Dude have u been seeing the goverment offices of Indian only? Majority of home users have Pentium 4 & Athlon64 which is fine to run Vista. The era of pentium 4 was the real time when Computer & PC usage incresed a lot in India


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## freshseasons (Mar 12, 2007)

I think the point shouldnt be will it fly or fall. Its too narrow a choice. Really windows doenst have much a alternative. I know 2 or 3 linux people will scream and 1 mac person will yell but the fact still remains that rest of the thousands amongts us are posting from windows enviroment. 
  And what a choice we have.. A Operating system or a new and improved operating sytem from same vendor at almost same price.Geeeeeek where is the choice....
  See at the end of the day Vista will take off. Microsoft will see to it that it does by :-
1) Giving more system updates to Vista ...
2) Making Vista more secure .
3) Initially pricing Vista at the same Cost of Xp hence diverting any new buyers from xp.
4) Having Exclusive Vista softwares and support like Direct x 10. Poor gaming freaks who love graphics will have no option but to move to Vista gradually.
      See in a monopoly there really is no Choice...Vista will eventually fly..the thing is how long can we avoid it.


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## nileshgr (Mar 12, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Many people have P3?   Dude, have u been seeing goverment offices of India only? The majority of home users have P4\Athlon64 here. Vista will run fine here in India, just let it crack by this years end
> __________
> 
> 
> ...


i have p3. my frnd has p2, celeron, etc.  OSS is really coming up buddy


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

The Unknown said:
			
		

> i have p3. my frnd has p2, celeron, etc.  OSS is really coming up buddy


 
Well, good for you. I don't think you do much with your computer anyway. Let me guess, you must be a student of Engg. (CS or IT stream) right?

If it not the requirment, like I said stick to what you have. Windows XP SP2 runs fine on that P3 of yours for sure. OSS is catching up not coming up


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## kirangp (Mar 12, 2007)

wow so much has happened here without me coming...and looks settled also


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

Thats cos We PC users (Windows & Linux) act mature.


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## aryayush (Mar 12, 2007)

You actually believe that, don't you? ROFLMFAO!!!

*forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> You actually believe that, don't you? ROFLMFAO!!!
> 
> *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif *forums.wirenine.com/images/smilies/animated/roflmao.gif  *soccergrip.com/forum/Smileys/default/roflmao.gif


 

Bulls*** alert. Thread deviated cos macboys have nothing proper to say.


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## shantanu (Mar 13, 2007)

i think comparing OSS, MAC , Windows is totally waste , coz they all have there own positives and negatives,

About Windows Vista : who says anyone to buy it, not M$ said you people who say vista has ten versions, i think the versions specified are all same, the offcial releases are only, Starter, home basic, home premium,business & ultimate, rest upgrades are given just to save your money, i completely agree to what gx_saurav said that why only to buy ultimate edition, not all need aero, flip3d, or Media centre,

I said before also that critisizing is not a solution, i disagree to aryayush for a point, in which he said that MAC is surely better than VISTA, i dont think so, 

Tell me one thing :* can a noob means a guy who just bouhgt a system and first times start using it , can he /she use LINUX(oss), MAC i dont think so, but he can use windows coz it very simple to use, so we should think from the bottom line, * not all computer users are PRO* we should not forget that Windows is used by over 80% computers in the world*

no personal comments to anyone, but TOPIC IS being changed to that * thats is OSS or MAC or windows which is better *


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## gxsaurav (Mar 13, 2007)

shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> no personal comments to anyone, but TOPIC IS being changed to that *thats is OSS or MAC or windows which is better *


 
What Linux users could have done was to give reason, why Vista will fall...not to give why Linux is superior. 

Macboys, well...don't wanna talk about it. Just saw how mature arya acts^^^^


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## aryayush (Mar 13, 2007)

Just because you keep chanting that you are mature does not mean that you actually are! 



			
				shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> I said before also that critisizing is not a solution, i disagree to aryayush for a point, in which he said that MAC is surely better than VISTA, i dont think so,
> 
> Tell me one thing :* can a noob means a guy who just bouhgt a system and first times start using it , can he /she use LINUX(oss), MAC i dont think so, but he can use windows coz it very simple to use, so we should think from the bottom line, * not all computer users are PRO* we should not forget that Windows is used by over 80% computers in the world*


People often advise me not to comment against these posts, but it is posts like yours that I just cannot resist answering. 
Have you ever used a Mac? No, I know you haven't.
So how can you say that Macs are not easier to use? Windows is easy to use and even Linux is just as easy nowadays. But Macs are easier than both of them. I mean, for a literate person who knows how to use computers, using any of the three operating systems is child's play (though Linux can be daunting sometimes). But, in general, Macintosh is definitely the one with the easiest and most intuitive user interface. I am a fan of the platform just because of the operating system, i.e. the user interface. It is the crown jewel of Apple computers, which is why they refuse to sell it separately.
You are the first person, even on this forum, who has said that Macs are not easy to use, or that Windows is comparatively easier. That is a misconception, mate. Try to look around and learn things from yourself, do not get influenced by opinionated posts of people like me or gx_saurav. 

Macs did not get mass market acceptance because:
a) You have to buy a whole new machine when you switch to a Mac; and
b) People have this misconception that Macs are expensive because they used to be in the past.


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## kirangp (Mar 13, 2007)

aryayush...u cant upgrade or add anything to the MAC...it is just use & throw...That is also one problem for Macs not doing well


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## Aberforth (Mar 13, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> b) People have this misconception that Macs are expensive because they used to be in the past.



Hate to be the party pooper but could you please back this up? I personally believe they are still our of the reach of a majority of computer users. Mac Mac mini at Rs. 30000/- is still not complete. It is basically just the CPU part, it still needs the monitor, keyboard etc. Moreover there isn't much scope of upgrading a Mac Mini. Macbooks, if they are compared with the price of a PC laptop, you get better in PC laptops from hardware point of view. Macbook pros are still in the luxury products segment in laptops, in line with Sony Vaio, Fujitsu Lifebook and Dell Precision. Point me if I am wrong.


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## nileshgr (Mar 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Well, good for you. I don't think you do much with your computer anyway. Let me guess, you must be a student of Engg. (CS or IT stream) right?
> 
> If it not the requirment, like I said stick to what you have. Windows XP SP2 runs fine on that P3 of yours for sure. OSS is catching up not coming up


Yeah i am a student but not of Engg./IT I am in 9th STD! But i use the net for many hours say atleast 5-6 hrs a day. I have U/L DSL from reliance 150kbps Rs.750/mth


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## gxsaurav (Mar 13, 2007)

The Unknown said:
			
		

> Yeah i am a student but not of Engg./IT I am in 9th STD! But i use the net for many hours say atleast 5-6 hrs a day. I have U/L DSL from reliance 150kbps Rs.750/mth


 
Hmm....good that u told me u r in class 9th, won't expect maturity from u now, u still need time to grow up. Good that u r learning linux from such age, will help you in becoming linux master by the time u complete 12 

But 5-6 hrs, boy U need to play football or cricket more often. Follow the IIT mumbai net ban


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## amitava82 (Mar 13, 2007)

Looks like someone on this forum got a job to segregate who is mature n who is not.  and i must remind that when u measure knowledge, age is not the factor that decide one's maturity.

also someone should accept the fact that MAC is a platform of luxury. why would i waste my hard earned Rs. 65000/- for a macbook when i get the same config for Rs.40000/- or less? Every single person with a little business sense knows that its the price you pay for the brand name, i.e., you are westing Rs. 25000/- for brand name. isn't it luxury? If apple sells their products at reasonable price like other IBM PCs definetly i'll buy one MacBook. Till then I'll stick to my Compaq with Ubuntu.


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## nileshgr (Mar 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Hmm....good that u told me u r in class 9th, won't expect maturity from u now, u still need time to grow up. Good that u r learning linux from such age, will help you in becoming linux master by the time u complete 12
> 
> But 5-6 hrs, boy U need to play football or cricket more often. Follow the IIT mumbai net ban


Dude, i live in an construction area where i have no frnds. So i have frnds @ thinkdigit. Also there's one more @ thinkdigit who is in 9th STD. Its Siddharth Maheshwari.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 13, 2007)

The Unknown said:
			
		

> Dude, i live in an construction area where i have no frnds. So i have frnds @ thinkdigit. Also there's one more @ thinkdigit who is in 9th STD. Its Siddharth Maheshwari.


 
Abe it's not a problem boy, use your solitude for cosntructive tasks. You are learning Linux, be good at it.


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## nileshgr (Mar 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Abe it's not a problem boy, use your solitude for cosntructive tasks. You are learning Linux, be good at it.


My exams are goin on till 17 MAR 07. Only after that i will load Linux.


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## Pathik (Mar 13, 2007)

hmmm... nice to see young boys in the forum...


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## praka123 (Mar 13, 2007)

there are old boys also here me@27


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## aryayush (Mar 13, 2007)

amitava82 said:
			
		

> Looks like someone on this forum got a job to segregate who is mature n who is not.  and i must remind that when u measure knowledge, age is not the factor that decide one's maturity.
> 
> also someone should accept the fact that MAC is a platform of luxury. why would i waste my hard earned Rs. 65000/- for a macbook when i get the same config for Rs.40000/- or less? Every single person with a little business sense knows that its the price you pay for the brand name, i.e., you are westing Rs. 25000/- for brand name. isn't it luxury? If apple sells their products at reasonable price like other IBM PCs definetly i'll buy one MacBook. Till then I'll stick to my Compaq with Ubuntu.


I neither expect nor want you to buy a MacBook, but I would love to buy a Rs. 40,00 widescreen laptop with a Core 2 Duo processor and a combo drive that has Vista Home Premium installed. Could you point me to one? Please?

And yes, it is not only a platform of luxury, it is a symbol of class!


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## amitava82 (Mar 13, 2007)

Ya you have money you can show off your class. that what MAC all about.. Finally you said it.
and here is a laptop less than 40K that can beat your macbook anytime. 

Compaq Presario V3155 AU
AMD Turion64 MK-50 @ 2.0GHz, 512MB DDR2 RAM, 80GB SATA HDD, 8X Double Layer DVD +/- R / +/- RW/ Writer, 14.1 inch Wide Screen WXGA TFT Display, Brightview Technology, NVIDIA GeForce Go 6150, Up to 128MB shared memory, Altec Lansing Stereo Speakrs, 5 in 1 Media Reader, 56k Modem, NIC, 802.11a/b/g WiFi, Integrated Bluetooth, S-video TV Out, IEEE 1394 3 USB 2.0,  Price: Rs. 34490/-

Just visit hp.com/in you will get more superior laptops at 65K with Vista if you insist..

and who said i want Vista?


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## aryayush (Mar 13, 2007)

OK, Macs suck! Be happy you don't have to endure the pain of using a Mac.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> OK, Macs suck! Be happy you don't have to endure the pain of using a Mac.


 
Atlast u admited


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

> Kaash they dropped rates & made it more available



Drop the rate of hardware, make them easy to upgarde, stop whining, & most important, relese the OS to general public installation like Windows & Linux


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## shantanu (Mar 14, 2007)

hey arya yush !! you didnt remember the post in which i supported you!!

and you say i havent used mac, yes i have not... i dont think that if i dont use a mac then i will not be a computer literate, YOu know one thing, by your posts you are just making me hate macs,i liked apple and am planning to buy a Apple lappy, You are not proving yourself right but making a whole lot of bad impression on me (i know that does not matter) ,but why ??
Did i say Apple is bad, or i say that your are wrong, i just disagreed to you on a single point,that * MAC is not better than VISTA*
if i wil count features then MAC will lag behind buddy!!!
you just learn some literature for VISTA, you will come to know that where mac comes in the race,

I am not having any personal comments but lets just not make a thread a BATTLE FIELD , for MACS.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

shantanu, this thread already is a battle ground for win vs mac, every thread in which apple or mac is critisized is transformed in a battle ground, why don't u just understand man . No hard feelings but it's the wraith of Macboys all over


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## shantanu (Mar 14, 2007)

ya i think i should have understood this a long back...  neways thanks for opening my eyes now...


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

koolbluez said:
			
		

> I started the thread as a _Vista - Chalega ya doobega_ thread..
> & What it turned out to be... a _MS vs Apple free-for-all_!!!
> 
> 
> -------------- Seems like I'm livin up to my siggy  -----------------​


hey suparman, i m backing out pal....insted of giving his thought why Vista will fail, arya started comparing it to Mac (again). I had to reply cos of his false knowledge & posts


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## aryayush (Mar 14, 2007)

shantanu_webmaster said:
			
		

> hey arya yush !! you didnt remember the post in which i supported you!!
> 
> and you say i havent used mac, yes i have not... i dont think that if i dont use a mac then i will not be a computer literate, YOu know one thing, by your posts you are just making me hate macs,i liked apple and am planning to buy a Apple lappy, You are not proving yourself right but making a whole lot of bad impression on me (i know that does not matter) ,but why ??
> Did i say Apple is bad, or i say that your are wrong, i just disagreed to you on a single point,that * MAC is not better than VISTA*
> ...


I have utmost respect for anyone who talks sense and that includes you. You have never used a Mac and therefore, do not know whether it is easy to use or not. But you said that Windows is easier to use. I just corrected you very politely. 

As for my posts making you not like Macs, well, you need to read them with an understanding that you might be wrong sometimes. You cannot know how the grass is on the other side just by looking at it, you need to touch it. I am pretty sure gx_saurav, in his countless arguments with me and Anand, has never ever been able to prove any point in favour of Windows that we did not already concede. Nor have his buddies been up to the task. After he has pulled a hundred things out of his ass, he comes up with one half decent reply like, for example, the poor support for TV tuners on the Mac platform. And if you are more keen to believe him rather then check the facts out for yourself, you are the one who is losing out, mate! Not him, not me.

His sole existence on Earth is dedicated to posting anti-Apple posts and if you deprive yourself of the chance to use a MacBook based on his derisive behaviour, you'll be losing a huge opportunity. Go to an Apple Authorised Reseller, ask for a demo, use the product for as long as you want and then decide whether it is for you or not. It may not be, one shoe does not fit all. Tell us later what you didn't like about the system. I'd love to hear it from someone who has actually used it. 

And if you were offended by some post of mine, I am sorry! I try to make sure I don't behave rudely, but some pests get on my nerves sometimes. I didn't think I would ever need to justify myself and I am partly ashamed for doing so but it is high time people stopped seeing me as an anti-Microsoft person. I am pro-Apple but I am in no way anti-Microsoft. Yes, Windows is crap and Microsoft does not take care of its customers but since I neither use Windows nor am I their customer, I couldn't care less. But I do think that Microsoft Office and Zune are good products, even better than iWork and iPod. And I have always defended Microsoft from anti-MS zealots even on this forum. gx_saurav, on the other hand, is 100 percent anti-Apple. In fact, even if some guy posts a thread to ask about the price of a MacBook, he will start saying that the guy is stupid and is making a wrong decision. LOL! And he has the gall to say that I am a fanboy (or macboy or macpest or whatever crap you guys can come up with)! 

And don't go into the territory of trying to list Windows features to me without using a Mac. I have the advantage of having used both systems extensively and I have both a PC and a Mac at my home. If I had not genuinely liked the Mac and found it to be much better, I wouldn't have held such a high opinion of it. Why would I want to use a system that I find inferior! Did you have live icons, instant searching, explorer shortcuts, slick animations, a photo management, CD/DVD authoring and calendar application, live previews, etc. before 2007? No, you did not. Mac users have had them at least for two years, with some features dating back to the beginning of 2001.

Just wait for Leopard...

Oh, and BTW, if you are indeed thinking of buying a Mac, don't do so now. Wait for Leopard to be released and shipped as the default OS on all Macs. 

@koolbluez,
It is an addiction. _Agar chor sakta to kabka chor deta!_ In my heart of hearts, I actually want people not to buys Macs so that they retain their exclusive status, but I just cannot resist when people lie about Macs and spread FUD. I thought I was done with this thread but then Shantanu posted a post which I just had to reply to clear his misconception.


----------



## shashank4u (Mar 14, 2007)

Take it easy guys


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

> I am pretty sure gx_saurav, in his countless arguments with me and Anand, has never ever been able to prove any point in favour of Windows that we did not already concede


 
Ignorence is bliss.....read how many times u have been pwned



> His sole existence on Earth is dedicated to posting anti-Apple posts


#1 rant



> Just wait for Leopard...


 
Wasen't Leopard supposed to relese before Vista?

Thread reported for personal rants, again. I hope any mods other then *the* mod sees it


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## kirangp (Mar 14, 2007)

Peace out fellows...How long will aryayush defend himself with all throwing insults at Mac???Aryayush if Apple decides to keep Apple Forum Person(same as MVP) or something,my vote is for u..


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## piyush gupta (Mar 14, 2007)

kirangp said:
			
		

> Peace out fellows...How long will aryayush defend himself with all throwing insults at Mac???Aryayush if Apple decides to keep Apple Forum Person(same as MVP) or something,my vote is for u..


 
I vote arya for Apple Marketing

But like MVP sorry but it means something else


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

arys should change his name tag from Mac genius to Macpest , will suit him perfectly.

Me too vote arya, i guess he is also in the doubt that some Apple employee is keeping an eye on the forum & he will win the ABF (Apple Biggest Fanboy) award , or maybe he gets paid for posting such rants in his free time on forum

*So, as we can see, the thread is compleately deviated from it's topic due to macboys*, again. I guess I should write a post next counting & pointing how many times arya was pwned himself 8). amitava just pwned u above arya.

I tried to say again & again, to come back to the topic but it was again & again transformed into a battle ground by Arya.


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## aryayush (Mar 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Wasen't Leopard supposed to relese before Vista?


If you mean to ask, "*Wasn't* Leopard supposed to *be released* before Vista?" - the answer is "no, it wasn't".

amitava82's laptop neither has any operating system installed nor does it have an Intel Core 2 Duo processor.
__________
The difference between the two notebooks when you have the exact same set of specifications is around six thousand bucks - Rs. 6,300, to be precise.
And that difference will remain, I hope it always does. If you are not willing to pay a premium for better design, zero security issues, the best operating system in the world running on a machine that can run any application whether it be of Windows or Linux - you are not the type of customer Apple is after. Go buy your Windows laptop and be happy, at least as happy as you can be running Windows.

And as I have always said, HP's computers are not only cheaper than Apple's, they are generally cheaper than all other players in the industry. Have a look at Sony and Dell's laptops, they are far more expensive than Apple's.

At the end of the day, I don't know what you guys are trying to prove here by arguing with me. If you are bitter at having to use Windows and are looking for some sense of justification by trying to belittle the Mac platform, fat chance! It is very easy to rant about it sitting at your house in front of a computer screen, but there are not many people in this world who can honestly say that they have had the opportunity to use a Mac and did not like it. I see it everyday, when guests come to my home and see my MacBook Pro. There is a reason most films that have a scene about computers use Macs in the shot; Shankar Ehsaan Loy have a wholly Mac based workflow and BSNL, Linksys, *Microsoft* and other companies use it in their advertisements. Macs are better than PCs, the price is not even a factor. If some virus corrupts your Windows installation and you have to format your hard drive, the data loss will be far more valuable than the bucks you saved on the PC itself.


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## shantanu (Mar 14, 2007)

today i got an email from Apple saying.. r u planning for a new computer...
get better than vista get MAC....
i think M$ never does anti-cheap marketing....


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## aryayush (Mar 14, 2007)

Yeah, they only bribe bloggers, fabricate reviews and make up letters to the editor to market their products, which isn't cheap at all!


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

This is where the problem lies. The problem with Apple is not the hardware; it's the arrogance & attitude of macboys. Fatbeing has said so many times use whatever u like, just don't rant your product to be the best cos it's not without its flaws. We gave the same reasons again & again why Mac sux, seems like you have a problem in reading.

1) The Mac you are talking about cannot be easily updated.

2) You are charged a lot then what should be the cost. Stop paying for white color.

3) You are acting elite, while this is proven by yourself that you do not know how to compare products or for anything non-Mac. If u did you wouldn't be giving such lame reasons.

Grow up boy, stop acting like a baby & sticking to one thing while there are better choices. iPod itself is not the best player in the market but it's sailing just due to its brand name. Same goes with Apple Mac.

Those who know how to use a computer buy PC. You pay $130 each year (legal) to upgrade your OS. About the point that MacOS X tiger can be installed even on 10 years old Mac (PowerPC G3) then Plz do so & see how "good" it works. Even Vista can be installed on a P3 1GHz, but the performance will be bad obviously

Vista is out for 4 months, yet 0 security related problems. No security update so far for it. No Anti-virus required on it right now. I m myself using it just with Ad-muncher, & Windows Firewall. No XP virus affects Vista, even if I run in myself (tested in VM by me).

It's costly, but there are so many versions to choose from which results in low TCO. 

It provides features much better then MacOS X, what Audio are u using arya? AC'97 right, here is the thing; With Vista & even XP we now use HD Audio & EAX.

What about the I\O stack is their support for SAS in MacOS X server, go check again...it's there in Windows Server & Longhorn server beta & Vista from many vendors. But for Mac there is only 1 so far.

What about IPv6 in Mac, just a few apps use IPv6. In Vista each & every application has access to IPv6, cos app asks the OS which gives IPv6 transfer automatically.

What about DirectX & Gaming, nope not on Mac.

What about MCE features, again not on a Mac properly? & No, front row is not even close to the feature & performance of Vista Media Centre.

Virus on Vista, none so far, better then Windows XPs track record. It's not even cracked properly yet.

What about support from Hardware vendors. If your hardware is not supported it’s as good as junk.

You mentioned that before Vista we didn't had applications like Photo Gallery which helps in management of Photos. Here is the thing, ever heard about IrfanView (free) or Picasa (free) or ACDSee (Paid). Ok these were not integrated in Windows itself, but looking at the past of MS, they cannot cos they will get sued. (& they did got sued for including features in Windows).



> Tell us later what you didn't like about the system. I'd love to hear it from someone who has actually used it.


 

1) My applications which I use on XP are not supported on Mac. I have paid for a few so I m not going to pay for alternatives. But here is the thing; if I paid for one app in XP I can still use it in Vista.

2) You cannot resize the Windows from anywhere. Just the south east corner.

3) It hogs RAM, 1 GB is minimum, & it runs pathetic on 512 MB RAM.
4) I cannot upgrade it the way I want to. If apple isn't supporting the upgrade then there is no way. Don't talk about RAM here plz

5) I don't know whether my hardware will work or not. I don't want to run to check hardware compatibility before buying something just to make sure it will run.

6) I don't want to pay $130 each year to upgrade. A better option is to pay Rs 8,000 once for Vista Home premium for years to come. I paid Rs 7000 for Windows XP in 2002, & still using it fine. 

Still, if you want to use MacOS X & your 1.47 Lakh macbook which blasts & gets hot as hell then plz do so, just stop acting like a smug & imposing it over others



> Yeah, they only bribe reviewers with new laptops to make them post positive reviews of Vista.



While Apple goes after bloggers & theme designers for making a skin for "Windows Mobile"


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## kalpik (Mar 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Vista is out for 4 months, yet *0 security related problems. No security update so far for it.* *No Anti-virus required on it right now.* I m myself using it just with Ad-muncher, & Windows Firewall. No XP virus affects Vista, even if I run in myself (tested in VM by me).


 Umm.. Im not really sure if that's true.. I myself have seen some security updates comming in thriugh windows updates.. And as far as far as an antivirus is concerned, it is definately recommended, even with Vista.. That's why people are coming up with new versions, supporting Vista (eg Avast, Kaspersky, Nod32, and soon Avira). And believe me when i say it, Vista has been completely cracked in at least 3 different ways..

*Disclaimer*: Im not a fanboy of windows/mac/linux etc.. Just putting forward some points..


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Umm.. Im not really sure if that's true.. I myself have seen some security updates comming in thriugh windows updates.. And as far as far as an antivirus is concerned, it is definately recommended, even with Vista.. That's why people are coming up with new versions, supporting Vista (eg Avast, Kaspersky, Nod32, and soon Avira). And believe me when i say it, Vista has been completely cracked in at least 3 different ways..
> 
> *Disclaimer*: Im not a fanboy of windows/mac/linux etc.. Just putting forward some points..


 
Kalpik, glad to hear some proper remark

Vista, like any version of Windows will require antivirus cos well.....it's Windows & it is targeted most due to it's market share. But as of now, I was not wrong when I said when I said 0 security releated problem for Windows Vista, there were updates for Windows Mail etc but not the OS itself.

Many users including me here are using Vista without antivirus. There are even many using Windows XP without Antivirus just cos we know how to use Windows, we don't just click on anything (viagra anyone )

About those 3 compleately different cracks

1) I tried it myself in VM, after 5 days the timar started again

2) Doesn't work everytime. This can & will be rectified by a Windows Update.

3) Already solved via Windows update.

Vista will be crack eventually, but like I said above, there is no proper crack as of yet.

By the way, 57 users have said Vista will fly so far....well, it is all over the news. It is indeed flying


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## shantanu (Mar 14, 2007)

Till now the only AV to get access to Vista KERNEL is AVG business edition, and all others will be coming in April or MAY,

and of cracks , NO vista isnt cracked yet, Those all cracks dont even work, they are just craps,, and M$ called Hackers to crack vista before launching and fixed the issues found after that.. and i think some cracker committed that his crack was fake , but all users were saying that it worked, just to critisize vista.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

@ shantanu. KAV is already available without needing any access to Vista kernal. But it protects against Windows XP viruses only, cos those viruses do not work in Vista, atleast the 8 I tried in VM


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## kalpik (Mar 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Kalpik, glad to hear some proper remark
> 
> Vista, like any version of Windows will require antivirus cos well.....it's Windows & it is targeted most due to it's market share. But as of now, I was not wrong when I said when I said 0 security releated problem for Windows Vista, there were *updates for Windows Mail* etc but not the OS itself.
> 
> ...


 Hehe.. Windows Mail is also part of the OS, aint it  Anyway, you are right, even i NEVER EVER had any virus on XP too (even though i had an AV installed just in case , but we are talking about the average joe here aint we? Not an MVP  And i didnt want to list out the cracks, but since you already have,

1. Works (tested for over 2 months, timer stays..), with ALL updates from MS enabled.
2. Also works, a new release fixed the issues with it not working sometimes (used to give BSOD occasionally). Again, with ALL updates enabled.
3. You missed this one.. This one works too, with ALL updates from MS.

I personally DO NOT use Vista at all (i use Ubuntu), and no way do i endorse piracy.. But i like to be at the top of things


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## shantanu (Mar 14, 2007)

But buddy!! the real AV is one which has access to kernel, without that there is no point in using that i think.. just for the sake of winxp viruses


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

Viruses are over hyped anyway. Just don't act stupid. The default installation of Vista does a lot to prevent damage by Average Joe in the form of UAC, Windows defender, firewall, secure mode....welll if we are talking about average Joe then i don't think he knows how to disable UAC  which helps him.



> 1. Works (tested for over 2 months, timer stays..), with ALL updates from MS enabled.


 
 maybe i was not able to crack it properly. But like I said, this will be resolved using windows update soon, or WGA



> 2. Also works, a new release fixed the issues with it not working sometimes (used to give BSOD occasionally). Again, with ALL updates enabled.


 
Again WGA



> 3. You missed this one.. This one works too, with ALL updates from MS.


 
It's for bussiness edition not Consumar edition. We all know Vista will be cracked to make it popular. Actully, piracy in homes helps MS. How else do u think so many students learn or study


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## kalpik (Mar 14, 2007)

Heh.. I myself found UAC VERY irritating! That's the first thing i did, disabled UAC  Hmm.. Lets see if MS can block the 1st two methods by updats or WGA, cuz they've been out for quite sometime..


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## gxsaurav (Mar 14, 2007)

@ kalpik, remove the names of the crack. No discussion about cracks here 

About UAC, you are not an average joe, r u?


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## kalpik (Mar 14, 2007)

^^ I really dunno! You tell me!


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## mehulved (Mar 15, 2007)

An average joe can get 'that irritating thing' easily turned off by a 'windows geek next door'.


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## aryayush (Mar 15, 2007)

You are pointing out Vista's flaws. Cancel or Allow? 

Could someone tell me exactly how User Account Control helps make Vista more secure?


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

> Could someone tell me exactly how User Account Control helps make Vista more secure?


1) Restricts access to the Windows Folder for any changes

2) Halts the user from making any system level changes which might screw the computer

3) Doesn't let any malicious software to install using activeX or any such method

4) Doesn't let a virus run, cos the virus exe tried to access system lavel access & files & tries to inject itself in startup list of Windows.

5) Informs the user if he is doing something wrong, like deleting a Admin installed printer from Printer control panel, or if he tries to uninstall a driver without admin permission.

UAC does everything to prevent a user from screwing his computer. I do admit there should have been a "Remember my settings fot this program" check box in UAC


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## aryayush (Mar 15, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) Restricts access to the Windows Folder for any changes
> 
> 2) Halts the user from making any system level changes which might screw the computer
> 
> ...


OK. All I see it doing is popping up 'Cancel' or 'Allow' dialog boxes for everything I try to do on the system. And though I understand the need for securing certain areas of the Control Panel, what use does it serve to block every piece of software you try to install on the system (the only exception I've come across so far is µTorrent)? How many people will read what it says every time they try to do basic things? Does it give you a different kind of alert when you try to install a virus? No, it obviously doesn't.

The biggest annoying thing about it is that it is either there or not. You either keep it turned on and get bugged by the system day in and day out for everything you do on it, or you turn it off and the system will keep mum even if you commit a crucial misstep that could paralyse the system. It is just a feature that Microsoft has put in place to show that they are taking security seriously and doing something about it - and they totally expect every user to turn it off.

Just for the sake of fun, here's Apple's darned funny take on this feature: 


> *Mac:* Hello, I’m a Mac!
> *UAC:* Mac has issued a salutation. Cancel or allow?
> *PC:* Allow. And I’m a PC.
> *UAC:* You are returning Mac's salutation. Cancel or allow?
> ...


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

Exactly what I expected you to post, nothing valid or to the point. Since you got pwned again finding that UAC is indeed a feature which well....works.



> what use does it serve to block every piece of software you try to install on the system


What, you mean you actually let any software install on the computer without informing you 



> How many people will read what it says every time they try to do basic things? Does it give you a different kind of alert when you try to install a virus? *No, it obviously doesn't*.



Average Joe's will cos it attracts attention to the UAC prompt when it papers. Those who don't want to read it are themselves responsible for screwing their OS. UAC warns them.....it is there decision whether to listen to it or not.

& how do you know, have you tried installing a Virus in Vista with UAC turned on yourself? Well, I have, so I can say. It informs with all the info about the application & gives the user a chance for prevention.



> The biggest annoying thing about it is that it is either there or not. You either keep it turned on and get bugged by the system day in and day out for everything you do on it, or you turn it off and the system will keep mum even if you commit a crucial misstep that could paralyze the system. It is just a feature that Microsoft has put in place to show that they are taking security seriously and doing something about it - and they totally expect every user to turn it off.


You got Vista RTM now I guess, right? Turn off UAC, now go & try to replace some file in C:\Windows\system32\,, try to modify or delete any file. Vista will not let you without admin control.

So, as you can see, UAC is simple, there is no need to turn it off if you are an average Joe. If you are turning it off anyway....which I do not recommend you cos u indeed are an average Joe of Windows, you still can't replace or modify system files manually or by a Virus. Even then if you take permission to screw your computer, Sorry Vista can't help you in that case.

Suppose UAC is turned off

1) I got a Virus in outlook mail in the form of EXE, well...outlook blocks exe already so I can't open it

2) If I get a mail to go to some webpage & click on some link to do something, well....it will start installing an app (virus) in which case IE 7 notifies me that there is an exe being downloaded & installed without informing you. Here is the thing....average Joe is notified about it, now weather he wants to install an application from an un-trusted source is again his decision.

3) Suppose I do install it, now Windows defender is running, & it will not let this new app inject itself in system startup & will notify u that some app is trying to start at system start up.

phew...average Joe notified, now he still has all the rights to screw his computer. 

I do agree, there should be a checkbox for "Remember my settings", so that Power users can turn on UAC but still work properly.

P.S. - Since you have not used Vista, you cannot say it sux. Use before saying anything. About me, well I have been using MacOS 9/X/10.2/10.4 long before you even knew the meaning of the word Computer. MacOS X is good, but not that good, just like Vista which is good but again not that good.

Back to topic - UAC is nagging, but if used can save from lots of problem. Those who want to turn it off can do so, yet they will be informed when doing something wrong. UAC could have been implemented in a better way so welll....lets hope & give feedback to MS to improve it in Vista SP1. UAC is not a show stopper for the success of Vista.


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## aryayush (Mar 15, 2007)

First of all, cut that crap about having used Mac OS X (any version) already. You have never even seen it apart from screenshots on the internet and maybe a few videos.

Secondly, it makes all the sense in the world to have traffic lights on smaller roads that have many intersections and crossroads. But Vista puts traffic lights at intervals of half kilometers even on National Highways, and therein lies the problem. (Don't try to comprehend the meaning of the metaphor, I don't have high expectations from someone who spells "whether" as "weather" and "wasn't" as "wasen't" at the age of twenty two).

If it pops up a UAC dialog when a user tries to install Yahoo! Messenger, iTunes, QuickTime Player and even Windows Live Messenger, the user won't bother to read it when he installs a malicious application either. I suppose you must have heard of the story about the wolf and the shepherd. It is the same thing here.

I am not questioning the capability of Windows Defender or any other security feature in Windows, it is just UAC I am talking about. UAC is useless. You get that? It is completely and utterly useless and it cannot even prevent one person from a virus. Every single objective reviewer on Earth including Paul Thurrott and Scott Finnie think so and honestly, the opinion of people who think they are hot shot geniuses when they have a hard time spelling completely ordinary words matters little!

And I have used Vista Final. It is installed on Parallels even now. The RC1 was installed on my PC. And the UAC feature in the final version does not improve upon RC1 in any way, shape or form.

You yourself are stating it quite clearly what Microsoft's goal was behind the UAC (mis)feature. This is just a way to wash their hands off. If people start blaming Microsoft for viruses on their system, they intend to give the excuse that UAC warned them about the potential danger of installing that particular application which injected a virus into the system, never mind the fact that UAC goes off hundred times each day with the exact same warning for perfectly safe applications.

It is like driving fast on a road that keeps giving you signs at regular intervals that say "Drive slow, manhole ahead". You slow your vehicle and go a long distance. There is no manhole but the signs keep appearing. Eventually you speed up and end up in a manhole ten kilometers later and the Government says that they had put up the signs so it is now your fault.
I can see how that makes sense to a person with a warped mind, but I assure you it is completely abnormal for normal people.


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## amitava82 (Mar 15, 2007)

Oh look Ma my Rs. 65K (actual price is more) macbook does not come with a DVDRW, only 60GB HDD and no Nvidia or ATi...  what a rip-off.. why don't you put couple of benchmark scores then we can compare how it performs with my Rs. 35K laptop. by d way if you want a windows count another 5-6K. still RIP OFF..


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## abhijangda (Mar 15, 2007)

It will not fly now my friend but after some 3 or 4 months it will fly becuase at that time many people will have vista compatible pc.
__________
It will not fly now my friend but will fall. After 2 or 3 months it will fly because more people will have vista compatible pc.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> First of all, cut that crap about having used Mac OS X (any version) already. You have never even seen it apart from screenshots on the internet and maybe a few videos.


 
What, you think you are the only with Macbook or Apple shops there , or is it that you again got nothing proper to write here. Ask your master, you will know.



> If it pops up a UAC dialog when a user tries to install Yahoo! Messenger, iTunes, QuickTime Player and even Windows Live Messenger, the user won't bother to read it when he installs a malicious application either.


 
The Job of UAC is to inform the user when he is installing an application. If an application is digitally signed by Verisign or any other company, UAC in most cases doesn't asks cos well, the application is trusted. I tried installing Outlook 2007 Junk mail filter yesterday with UAC on & it didn't ask me anything.

intel inside, idiot outside.



> it is just UAC I am talking about. UAC is useless. You get that? It is completely and utterly useless and it cannot even prevent one person from a virus.


 
   I see desperation by getting pwned, what do you guys see? I clearly mentioned what UAC does & how it can & even prevented me from installing a Virus myself.  you got publically pwned. Why don't you try before you talk anything. The points you mentioned of UAC being useless were pwned by the points I gave. 

MacOS X has a password feature to prevent system files. Here is the thing, if u remove that password all your system files can be replaced. In Vista, even if you disable UAC you still cannot replace or change or modify system files.




> And the UAC feature in the final version does not improve upon RC1 in any way, shape or form.


 
The you have not installed Vista RTM, I can bet. Plz post a screenshot of Parallels runing in Window mode with about dialog of Windows Vista. Parallels means you don't even have aero. So much for your "I can install any OS on Mac".



> You yourself are stating it quite clearly what Microsoft's goal was behind the UAC (mis)feature. This is just a way to wash their hands off. If people start blaming Microsoft for viruses on their system, they intend to give the excuse that UAC warned them about the potential danger of installing that particular application which injected a virus into the system, never mind the fact that UAC goes off hundred times each day with the exact same warning for perfectly safe applications.


 
Here is the thing. If MS includes an Anti-Virus in Windows, they will get sued. So UAC is the prevention method informing user what he is doing. MS still releses security updates & application fixes. Just a few months ago they relesed an application compatibility patch so that many application can now work properly with Vista.



> I don't have high expectations from someone who spells "whether" as "weather" and "wasn't" as "wasen't" at the age of twenty two


 


> the opinion of people who think they are hot shot geniuses when they have a hard time spelling completely ordinary words matters little!


 
What I see is desparation & a method to again deviate the thread , You really don't know why I do the mistakes boy, don't you.



			
				abhijangda said:
			
		

> It will not fly now my friend but after some 3 or 4 months it will fly becuase at that time many people will have vista compatible pc.


 
People have Vista capable PCs from the days of Nforce 3 & intel 865G. Cos these are the officialy supported chipsets from Intel & nVidia. Don't know about Via & ATI.


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## aryayush (Mar 15, 2007)

amitava82 said:
			
		

> Oh look Ma my Rs. 65K (actual price is more) macbook does not come with a DVDRW, only 60GB HDD and no Nvidia or ATi...  what a rip-off.. why don't you put couple of benchmark scores then we can compare how it performs with my Rs. 35K laptop. by d way if you want a windows count another 5-6K. still RIP OFF..


You are lying through your teeth. That configuration is not available on HP's website at all.


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## amitava82 (Mar 15, 2007)

oh really?  may be you don't have the eye or don't know how to navigate a site. here is some link for you:
*h50188.www5.hp.com/Store/storeModel.asp?familyid=1175&gna=Consumer+Notebooks
*www.computerwarehousepricelist.com/

looks like price has decreased to 31990/-. you can call the shop n ask..


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

@ amitava82

It is already proven fact that Mac are a Rip off, no use telling it again to macboys. Back to the topic plz.


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## aryayush (Mar 15, 2007)

amitava82 said:
			
		

> oh really?  may be you don't have the eye or don't know how to navigate a site. here is some link for you:
> *h50188.www5.hp.com/Store/storeModel.asp?familyid=1175&gna=Consumer+Notebooks
> *www.computerwarehousepricelist.com/
> 
> looks like price has decreased to 31990/-. you can call the shop n ask..


That machine has a Turion processor with a miserable 512 KB of L2 cache. It does not have any operating system pre-loaded. There is no FireWire port. It does not have a MagSafe power adapter, does not come with onsite warranty and is as ugly as it can get. It also does not have motion sensors that can detect the machine falling or a trackpad that works with two fingers. To top it off, it does not run Mac OS X and most people who have used Mac OS X will agree that it makes spending those few extra bucks worth it.

It is in the low-end segment of the market, totally incomparable to the MacBook. Apple does not compete in the low-end market. If you want a dirt cheap laptop, HP is the way to go. 
__________
ComputerWorld's take on UAC:





> Will users find the ubiquitous User Account Control prompts mind-numbing? I have no doubt about that.
> UAC will be self-defeating because it's annoying and mindless. Although you get used to UAC prompts, what you get used to is that they're coming, and you just click right through them. Some UAC prompts make sense. But even after Microsoft streamlined UAC to avoid this problem, it's still overkill. Now that Vista has shipped and my review work is finished, I'll admit it: I turn off UAC on my machines. But here's the most important point: I've never even looked to find the off button for a similar feature on the Macintosh. Why? Because Apple smartly reserved the prompts for the most dangerous things, not everything.
> 
> Bottom line: *UAC and a few other somewhat invasive security measures are not about protecting customers; they're about protecting Microsoft from negative publicity.*


I swear I had never read this little bit before posting my opinion, but as you can see it echoes exactly the same opinion that I hold:





			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> You yourself are stating it quite clearly what Microsoft's goal was behind the UAC (mis)feature. This is just a way to wash their hands off.



Here's a more detailed explanation from the same website but a different reviewer:





> UAC is not smart in any way. It doesn't try to discern something that might actually be a threat. It just throws up a prompt about something that might conceivably be exploited. It also doesn't ever relax. You could click the System Control Panel (also called Advanced System Settings in some areas of Vista) 75 times in a row, and it would prompt you with the statement "Windows needs your permission to continue" every time. So basically, it adds an extra click to the process of accessing this tool.
> 
> There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach, which has been used by other operating systems before. It's not a new idea, and it's not a bad idea. But the devil is in the details of how it's implemented. As a Johnny-come-relatively-lately to the security bandwagon, Microsoft has embraced security principles fervently. What that means is that, if there's even a small chance that opening a settings dialog box, starting up an applet, or running an installation program could present even a slight security risk, Windows Vista is going to prompt you with some sort of UAC dialog box asking for permission to proceed.
> 
> ...



This is the opinion of professional tech writers and reviewers, and I do not need to remind you that it is not your opinions that matter most, it is theirs.

And don't expect me to post another reply to the useless comments you are going to post countering this.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

> This is the opinion of professional tech writers and reviewers, and I do not need to remind you that it is not your opinions that matter most, it is theirs.


 
Who are again computer users, who were once normal users like me & you. Which means mine & yours point of view does matters now. Welcome to Web 2.0 which constitutes of user generated content.



> UAC and a few other somewhat invasive security measures are not about protecting customers; they're about protecting Microsoft from negative publicity.


 
In MacOS X & Linux the installer package is in the form of .dmg or .mo .rpm or .deb, while the real application is in the form of .bin (usually). In Windows there is a problem. Both the setup & executable have the same extension .exe. Now MS tried to solve this problem using .net 2.0 & Windows installer 3.0 which many companies have adopted. The setup package is .msi while the executable is .exe, but still there are many old applications & setup so MS cannot completely remove the backward compatibility resulting in UAC giving a prompt whenever you try to install software. Nothing wrong with that, if you find it annoying than disable it. *Vista still protects you from screwing your computer by restricting user modification to system files & by using windows defender, IE 7 (Phishing filter) & DEP.*

I myself said above, UAC needs some modification like "Remember my settings" check box. It is not bad & it is required. The text you copy pasted says this too.



> There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach, which has been used by other operating systems before. It's not a new idea, and it's not a bad idea. But the devil is in the details of how it's implemented.


 


> And don't expect me to post another reply to the useless comments you are going to post countering this.


 
So my points are always useless justifying why Vista is stronger & better while your points which are baseless & just got pwned are not useless..., I really don't expect you to post anything here, cos you don't have anything proper to say anymore. If there is no Mac-bashing, you don't have anything to say & I no longer bash Mac here cos it's beyond the scope of this thread. The only thing you have knowledge about is Mac & Apple centric, why don't you try Vista properly for 1 week before saying anything. Most of the application you use on Mac are also available on Vista already. Just remember...

1) Your primary computer is Mac, so do not use outlook express\Windows Mail. Cos then how will u transfer mails to your Mac Mail.app

2) Transfer your firefox or opera preference & bookmarks.

3) Transfer your iTunes playlists & songs.

Back to the topic, like I said before that despite the somewhat annoying implementation of UAC, it is not the show stopper. 61 users have so far voted that Vista willl run.


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## tarey_g (Mar 16, 2007)

Awesome quote of the day , and its true from business point of view 



> *"If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else." -- Microsoft Business Group President Jeff Raikes*




atleast don't fight over this ,  the whole thread is full of fanboy crap already.


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## amitava82 (Mar 16, 2007)

i like this one.. and its true. if you apply little common sense, u'll get to know the strategy behind this. surely those guys know how to run a business...


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## gxsaurav (Mar 16, 2007)

Well, with the advancement & shrinking of technology, it's becoming a part of our lives. Computer will no longer be Geek boxes, they will be just another consumar device, & the day is not far when it will be in the drawing room with TV or game console. Actully they are already there.

Here is the thing, Vista provides a much better UI then Windows XP. For users using the Windows XP Lune interface, the Aero Glass is really a "Wow". There day to day tasks are easier to perform now just because of new UI in Vista. *Most important, it runs on the same hardware people are using already*. Rest of the features are under the hood & people hardly care for it. Average Joe wants his new OS to give him the Wow, to run on his existing hardware, to work with all the 3rd party hardware out there & most important to run faster then the previous OS. 

Power users are not affected by such tactics, they buy whatever they find the maximum bang for money. Why do you think nVidia Geforce mainstream series sales more then the high-end series.?

MS knows what piracy means. Piracy is what made Windows so popular. Desktop lavel piracy doesn't affect MS much & they know offices & professional can't use Pirated OS anyway in there production pipeline. However, a pirated Windows help people in learning computing, helps students in learning programing, CAD & what not which results in people going up & growing up to buy & use the other services MS gives & that is something MS wants. Windows Live services are going strong.


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## shantanu (Mar 16, 2007)

*www.marrathon.com/whymac.html

Today i got some reasons why to have a MAC


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## Richardwu (Mar 16, 2007)

Hello to everyone,

As the debate was going on, i also would like to participate in this.Windows Vista is surely an outperforming operating System, Which gives its users a great feel of performance. Its the first ever Os which is not BIOS dependable,
It does not require a BIOS in system to run, In coming future the motherboards will only contain a EFI chip and a TPM solution for security, Without a BIOS Windows vista will self initialize the components and gives enhabced accelleration to the system, With it limited release now the PC user community is experiencing onyl 50% of vista performance, In the upcoming years we will have more compatiblity for vista & it will surely take over the market. 
Every OS has its own positive points which are to be counted, Macs ,linux are both outstanding platforms to work upon, but after reading all the posts i dont even find a single correct answer given either by gx_saurav or by aryayush, just commenting upon a topic does not make a debate, you should have some backing in what you say,

Now about features of Windows Vista, Yes UAC is still in development and after some more enhancements Windows Vista will UAC and Windows defender and Walls of Security, which are another nice step. 

Just dont comment without gathering complete information.


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## mediator (Mar 16, 2007)

@Richard : Welcome to the forums! Best of luck for ur participation in the debate . As for aayush and saurav, they r kinda best friends  n have been chatting for a long time with enough links on their side as far as I can remember their happy conversations right!!


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## gxsaurav (Mar 16, 2007)

Richardwu said:
			
		

> Hello to everyone,
> 
> As the debate was going on, i also would like to participate in this.Windows Vista is surely an outperforming operating System, Which gives its users a great feel of performance. Its the first ever Os which is not BIOS dependable,
> It does not require a BIOS in system to run, In coming future the motherboards will only contain a EFI chip and a TPM solution for security, Without a BIOS Windows vista will self initialize the components and gives enhabced accelleration to the system, With it limited release now the PC user community is experiencing onyl 50% of vista performance, In the upcoming years we will have more compatiblity for vista & it will surely take over the market.
> ...


 
Glad to hear your reply . I have used Vista since beta 1 days & I can say how good it has evolved. Here is the thing, I have used MacOS a lot too from the days of OS 9, got access to it in my institute here as a Mac mini (for education purpose only) so I can say where both of these systems lack & prevail. I gave reasons why Mac is not so better, & when Arya asked "What features vista gives over XP" & gave the feature list & after that there was nothing he could say.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> @Richard : Welcome to the forums! Best of luck for ur participation in the debate . As for aayush and saurav, they r kinda best friends  n have been chatting for a long time with enough links on their side as far as I can remember their happy conversations right!!


 
abe tu mar kahega , we are not friends from any angle. I do realise that he is just a kid & needs to learn what computing is & he has to understand that Computing is much more then Apple mac. the thing is his arrogent attitude which usually is common with kids of his age (don't worry, even i was like this once , check my ATI vs nVidia posts from 3 years back)


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## mediator (Mar 16, 2007)

^Cmon man, there's no reason for why u shudn't be friends with him/anyone. To me, u two guys seem to be the "bestest" friends on earth always making this forum a lively and happening place. 

To the topic : Vista May fly. There r too many factors that govern this! So can't say much!


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## Richardwu (Mar 16, 2007)

Thanks to you Mr.mediator! 
its very strange to know that you guys dont put up your names on the forum board,
Coming to topic, 
gx_saurav, Use of mac and or windows is based upon our personal experience, its very nice to know that you are using Vista from its beta phase, were you involved in the beta testing of the operating system, Beta and Droo phase were just beginning of Vista's kernel, and all the development started after that, Yes , vista has evolved with a great apperance and feature content and makes the future of computing very wide and reliable, making and deploying vista was the greatest challenge for Microsoft Corporation inc. in its history of software development, there are many features which are still hidden from users like you, which will come up after some time of development and with coming time and technology, Vista makes another change in UI which is to present 64 bit color depth in next one year, with BluRAY & HD coming in reach for technology enthusiast, computing will change its way to a very different outsourced world, Vista is surely better at times and right now the most Advanced Platform to work upon.
Whereas Mac is not very behind, its also coming up with more options in future for their users, Mac gives extra potential and grace to its users, you say that you are a MAC user from a long time , so you must be knowing the simplicity of MACs. 
They were quite better than Xp, but then also they lacked some fields which XP had, and Xp lacked some UI which MAC had, so the thing is you cannot say which is better, Every day technology changes and makes difference, today MAC are better , so tomorrow Vista.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 16, 2007)

Richardwu said:
			
		

> were you involved in the beta testing of the operating system


 
Yup, Official Windows Vista beta tester. 

64 bit color is already there in the graphics card from DirectX 9a time. But not in desktop UI. With Vista it will be unleased. It's true that to the average Joe vista will just feel faster then XP on the same hardware & a better UI cos he doesn't care how things works.

Macs are indeed simple. i don't have a problem with MacOS X or Apple hardware, they are some of the best designed machines out there. But *I do have a problem with arrogent Mac users, who for no reason think of themselves as the only users who know how to work on a computer. i do have a probelm with there arrogent marketing techniques which binds you to the hardware & makes it really hard to to upgrade on your own, resulting in very low 3rd party hardware support*. Comon man, It's just another PC, for gods sake open up the system.

Two reason which I forgot to mention before, another First in Vista

1) HD Audio & it's features 

2) Enhanced I\O performance with SATA\HHD resulting in much better harddisk performance then just DMA.


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## Richardwu (Mar 16, 2007)

So , it was nice meeting you here MR. gx_saurav, its another good news that you are a beta tester for Microsoft , i think from beta phase as you say, not in Droo Phase,
As i said before Vista makes many positives and that we should only discuss after a perfect information gathering,

The 2nd features is not Vista Exclusive, you have them in Windows Xp also,
the first feature is a Dual variety enhancement made to vista, thats true in every sense,
Whats makes you feel you are a perfect windows user ?
and a request : can you provide me with your connect ID.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 16, 2007)

i filed my name for Windows Vista beta testing before Beta 1 was relesed. Got selected as an official one when Beta 2 was relesed. Don't ask how I got access to beta 1 (the old fashioned way) .

The 2nd feature of Cache in HD is there in XP 64bit only, which never catched up.



> Whats makes you feel you are a perfect windows user ?
> and a request : can you provide me with your connect ID.


 
Who said I m a perfect Windows user richard. I just don't talk about a feature or flaw of my OS weather it is Linux or Vista or XP without looking myself. There are many things I still don't know about XP, ask Vishal Gupta, he has littrally torned apart Windows XP & disected it . He can very well be Dr. of XP

& Sorry, I m not comfortable with giving my connect ID . Good night.


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## Richardwu (Mar 16, 2007)

I tossed up a question to you ! that what it is that makes you feel you are a perfect windows user, i would have written as essay over it, i just asked your Personal opinion ? i didnt doubt as you capabities,

and its very fine if you are not comfortable.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 16, 2007)

62 users so far saying Vista will run while 22 saying "Not Sure". So far Vista is rocking all over. The Computer market here has seen a boom in hardware sales just due to Vista. People are buying graphics cards, & more RAM just to use Vista.

Oh & not everyone is "buying" Vista. Some are using cracked editions too....


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