# Kerala shuts windows, schools to use only Linux



## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

*KOCHI, MARCH 4:* Richard M Stallman—global free software guru, VS Achuthanandan’s darling and almost a freewheeling adviser of sorts to the Kerala Government—may now have more reasons to break out into that jig that he abruptly did while being given a somberly reverential welcome in Kerala a few weeks ago. Kerala is all set to become the first state in the country to completely banish Microsoft and allow only GNU/Linux free software to be used in the mandatory IT test at the state SSLC examinations that half a million students will appear for from next week. Till last year, they could take the exam using either free software or the Microsoft platform. Not anymore. 

 A few weeks ago, the Government formally ordered that only free Linux-based software should be used for IT education in high schools, using new the Linux text books developed by State Council for Educational Research and Training and the Free Software Foundation of India. 

 The hardline Left’s familiar anti-MNC, anti-proprietory planks apart, another major plus of abandoning Microsoft, claim state IT Mission officials, is plainly the cost factor. “Going for a massive Windows-based infrastructure cost a lot. Linux can bundle all applications with the operating system facilitating a single installation kit”. 

 The logistics for making Kerala the country’s Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) destination—one of Achuthanandan’s pet Red obsessions—may be daunting, but the state is coping with it. Since last September, some 15 lakh students have been busy training on or migrating to free software on 40,000 computers put up in 2,832 high schools watched over by over 60,000 IT trained school teachers (some 86 private training institutions train the teachers) besides 161 master trainers and 5,600 school IT coordinators. “We checked. It’s the world’s biggest mobilisation of its kind,” says K Anwar Sadath, executive director of the state government’s IT@Schools mission. 

 Every high school in Kerala, including the over a thousand government-run ones, will be wired to high-speed broadband Internet by this July, which will be another first in India. All, of course, will use nothing but free software. “We are now moving from IT education to IT-enabled education in our schools, using only free software,” asserts Education Minister M A Baby. 

 When Stallman, who fathered the GNU project and developed text editor Emacs, flew down to Kerala for the first time in 2001—in his old patched jeans, long beard, free flowing hair and crumpled T-shirt—and told the curious who hadn’t heard of him in Thiruvananthapuram that he was, really, “Saint iGNUcious of the church of Emacs”, the then Congress-led Government was already busy getting the state’s IT drive on keel, drawing in Intel and Microsoft. Achuthanandan, then Opposition leader, was quick to demand that both be got rid of, and launched a particularly vocal campaign against Microsoft being allowed to train Kerala school kids, calling it “exploitative”. 

 The then A K Antony Government had not overly warmed up to Stallman, who opened Asia’s first centre of his outfit, the Free Software Foundation-India, in Thiruvananthapuram. But Achuthanandan was keen, even when CPI(M) state secretary Pinarayi Vijayan originally favoured the Microsoft idea. Stallman then began regularly dropping down to Kerala. Two years ago, Achuthanandan, after vainly ordering Pepsi and Coca-Cola out of the state, declared that all schools will go the FOSS way. 

 Last year, in its state IT policy, the Left Government vowed to use only FOSS in all e-governance projects and declared it would even incentivise companies developing free software. Government departments, beginning with the state Secretariat, soon began switching from Microsoft to Linux. “There were some initial fears and some understandable resistance, but things have been smoothing out faster than we thought.” says a a senior state IT official. The migration is at various stages in key Government arms now.

*Source*: Indian Express


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## cool_techie_tvm (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks for the info


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

> Kerala shuts windows


 
They should open "Windows" else the classrooms will get very suffocated with penguins & there sh!t all over. 

Seriously, now isn't this interfering with the choice of users. Students will not know what Windows is & if they go somewhere where Windows is installed, they will not be able to work.

They should teach both.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> They should open "Windows" else the classrooms will get very suffocated with penguins & there sh!t all over.



If you have nothing better to say, then please go $hit in your toilet and not in this forum!



gx_saurav said:


> They should teach both.



Tell that to M$ who wanted to exploit young minds by trying to teach school kids directly!

Now, I don't know whether the $hit you talked about is inside your head or in your mouth, but a single company which is already utterly monopolistic trying to teach an entire nation only about it's products and you call that "CHOICE"?? Get alive.


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## gary4gar (Mar 8, 2008)

Well Govt can't afford the pricey licenses of Microsoft 
GNU/Linux is no way less than Windows, so why pay for anything when you get it free?


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> Tell that to M$ who wanted to exploit young minds by trying to teach school kids directly!


 
Why do u always take MS in the wrong sense. They have a product, they are teaching the kids how to use it, program for it, etc etc

Since Linux also has this, Linux should also teach kids the same thing.

Schools should teach both.


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Students will not know what Windows is & if they go somewhere where Windows is installed, they will not be able to work.




If I remember correctly, u were saying that Windows is this much easy that anyone can use it without *wasting* much time in learning !!

So, why this now ??* Do u wanna say that Learning Curve of Windows is HIGH ??*


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 8, 2008)

gary4gar said:


> GNU/Linux is no way less than Windows, so why pay for anything when you get it free?


because you get better support with windows. You get many softwares, games supported only with windows.



Garbage said:


> If I remember correctly, u were saying that Windows is this much easy that anyone can use it without *wasting* much time in learning !!
> 
> So, why this now ??* Do u wanna say that Learning Curve of Windows is HIGH ??*


Yes, windows learning need very less time n effort......... but than also it need time. 

If one is not given windows exposure than he/ she will surely fall in trouble.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Why do u always take MS in the wrong sense. They have a product, they are teaching the kids how to use it, program for it, etc etc
> 
> Since Linux also has this, Linux should also teach kids the same thing.
> 
> Schools should teach both.



The very reason that this ruling was bought was because of M$'s over agressive approach to take up computer education into their own hands. This is no way going to be good because the way you fear that by teaching linux, only people will know linux, if MS takes up teaching themselves, the case is going to be worse because they want more money, money and money and teaching kids about other alternatives is simply not going to get them that money.

*So, when choice is being attacked upon, the better choice is implemented!*


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

ravi_9793 said:
			
		

> because you get better support with windows. You get many softwares, games supported only with windows.



U forget Red Hat ?? U forget Novell ???
And do u want to teach kids computer to play GAMES only ?? :O

Finally, don't tell that GNU/Linux has very less software for kids... If u say so, don't it childish ??


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 8, 2008)

Garbage said:


> U forget Red Hat ?? U forget Novell ???
> And do u want to teach kids computer to play GAMES only ?? :O
> 
> Finally, don't tell that GNU/Linux has very less software for kids... If u say so, don't it childish ??


You may add any point..but it is universal truth. Windows has better support. And I think game is essential part of life. I cant imagine my life without PC games. And yes, linux do have very less software in compare to windows.


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## nish_higher (Mar 8, 2008)

well if those schools are like my school where only general computing like docs,presentations,etc are taught and students use internet for some educative purpose then _*linux is the best choice*_,being free.also my school  never allowed games


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 8, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif


Poor guy.....



> This is what happens when you live in an M$ world, you think Windows is "Software". Rephrase your sentence to "More *Windows* Software is available" and not "more software"


I mean more softwares are available for windows. Cant you get point. And it is well known truth.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

ravi_9793 said:


> because you get better support with windows.



*gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif


ravi_9793 said:


> You get many softwares,



This is what happens when you live in an M$ world, you think Windows is "Software". Rephrase your sentence to "More *Windows* Software is available" and not "more software"



ravi_9793 said:


> games supported *only* with windows.



Firstly, *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif
Are you for real man? 

Secondly, NO wonder your knowledge is so utterly poor, because I guess you spend more time playing *games* while in the *classroom*


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## cool_techie_tvm (Mar 8, 2008)

I hate to dampen the enthusiasm, still its fun reading the posts in this thread...

*No hard feelings please*


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

ravi_9793 said:


> You may add any point..but it is universal truth. Windows has better support. And I think game is essential part of life. I cant imagine my life without PC games. And yes, linux do have very less software in compare to windows.


I asked you, do u want to teach computers to kids *only for playing games ??*
Don't they need some other work on computer in initial days ??


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 8, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif
> 
> 
> This is what happens when you live in an M$ world, you think Windows is "Software". Rephrase your sentence to "More *Windows* Software is available" and not "more software"
> ...


cant you read full sentence. It is many softwares and games.. 



Garbage said:


> I asked you, do u want to teach computers to kids *only for playing games ??*
> Don't they need some other work on computer in initial days ??


windows support other works also.

I mean, game is also part of life. Without game, my school and college life is hell.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

Garbage said:


> So, why this now ??* Do u wanna say that Learning Curve of Windows is HIGH ??*


 
Nope, learning curve of Windows is 10% of the learning curve of Linux. 

In schools if they teach linux, then it will take 2 years for the kids to play a mp3. ***

If they teach Windows, it will take 5 mins. 



> *So, when choice is being attacked upon, the better choice is implemented!*


 
Ok, I did not know that MS send representatives with AK-47 to the schools of kerela & forced them to teach Windows.  

Dude, MS told schools to teach Windows, it was the choice of schools to teach Windows or Linux.

At that time they chose Windows because the state of Linux was pathetic, hardly any GUI. Today Linux is good in usage, better then before but still behind Windows in many things so schools are teaching this.



> U forget Red Hat ?? U forget Novell ???


 
And they don't charge for support?



*** pun intended


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## hullap (Mar 8, 2008)

gr8 news hope the govt in delhi does this too


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## avinash.gamerboy (Mar 8, 2008)

uhh..more penguins...


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And they don't charge for support?



Don't M$ then ??

And Ravi,
I think kids don't need to play games which need DirectX to play! U might needed it. But all kids are not as smart as you!  Hope, u got the point now...


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

The bottom line is.. the news is the real deal, it's done.. so shutup now  **

_**pun for broadminded, attack for fanboys_


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Mar 8, 2008)

bad move


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> Secondly, NO wonder your knowledge is so utterly poor, because I guess you spend more time playing *games* while in the *classroom*


 
Hey, I used to do drawing in my classroom, during maths or physics class, & I got good marks in 12th, still after 5 years, studying B.Com, & working as a CAD designer, I now have a career in "drawing" only.

You never know, playing games might entice him towards game desigining & developing which I hope u know is a market as big as hollywood.



> Don't M$ then ??


 
MS charges, so does Linux for support, so why do u say MS is evil but Linux isn't.


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## Gigacore (Mar 8, 2008)

very good move, appreciate it. But I think teaching both is necessary while carrier is concerned


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> bad move


WHY ??? :O

Any reason to say it's bad ?? Please let us know yaar...


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> MS charges, so does Linux for support, so why do u say MS is evil but Linux isn't.



Because M$ is a single company which does it's job according to 2 or 3 people's directions(CEO, chairman etc.) and money is their ultimate goal. It's like a single king trying to say what's best for it's people which is more or less dictatorship.

But linux is a whole community, every move it makes benefits everyone and not just one company and it's not about the money.

*Linux is Democracy, Windows is Dictatorship.* Nothing better to describe the difference between them!


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## NucleusKore (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Why do u always take MS in the wrong sense. They have a product, they are teaching the kids how to use it, program for it, etc etc
> 
> Since Linux also has this, Linux should also teach kids the same thing.
> 
> Schools should teach both.



I take your point on choice gx_saurav, but should schools pay for Windows? It's not like they are buying Linux and shutting out Windows. If Microsoft were to give Windows licences for free to schools and their students, under a special licensing scheme, the "cost factor" would not be an issue. When you have a competitor like Linux, I think the onus is on Microsoft. Again, I want to stress, you cannot *force* or insist that the state buy windows licenses when a free *equally* good alternative is available.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

> But linux is a whole community, every move it makes benefits everyone and not just one company and it's not about the money.


 
Right, but companies which u mentioned like Red Hat or Novell make money on the work of the community & get rich, they don't pay back to the community in money, do they?

I ask you, is it wrong to make money? If I have made a super beautiful & efficient engine design should I show it to everyone or give the design for free, leaving all my research & developement costs.

Going Open Source saves R & D cost of any company, this is the primary reason for any company to go open source. Why do u think ATI recently open sourced some part of there OpenGL drivers??? Simple, they lack the money & resources to develop OpenGL as well as DirectX drivers right now due to low on money after ATI's purchase. They are developing the DirectX drivers in house while they have opened the OpenGL drivers, let the community make the driver for OpenGL which they will simply use in Windows environment too....they don't need to pay for the R&D of OpenGL drivers now.

In return, the Linux community will buy there graphics hardware & use the Open Source OpenGL ICD for use in Linux. Linux users get to use Linux but they still need to buy ATI card to use it....who is winning here???? users or ATI???

*



			Linux is Democracy, Windows is Dictatorship.
		
Click to expand...

*


> Nothing better to describe the difference between them!


 
Ya, democracy like this sux.....I am seriously in favor of a controlled & strict communism in India too


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## Hackattack (Mar 8, 2008)

Doesn't matter if they teach Linux, it's only at school or college students are going to use them, after they pass out high-school  they are going to get windows. 

And the biggest  reason for that is why will some one spend 2hrs searching the net and waste bandwidth when the same can be done at 5secs on windows.

Simplicity sells.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

NucleusKore said:


> If Microsoft were to give Windows licences for free to schools and their students, under a special licensing scheme, the "cost factor" would not be an issue.


 
I hope you know about education License of Microsoft??????? Well, sure u don't. They are already doing this.

Here in Lucknow, any Computer Science or IT Student in IET college lucknow (biggest engg college here) can simply get a license for XP/Vista/.net/Server 2008 for a far lower price, after showing his college ID card & other documents etc, cos IET is in collaboration with MS.

Since most of the users don't know about Windows & Microsoft's licensing scheme etc, they think MS is evil.

Since most of the users don't know about KDE, amarok, Gnome, Excile, they think Linux is for geeks.

We need awareness for both, not just Linux or not just Windows.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> I ask you, is it wrong to make money?



There is a hell lot of a difference between, *"it's just about the money"* and "*it's about the money"*



gx_saurav said:


> Going Open Source saves R & D cost of any company, this is the primary reason for any co
> ......................
> ...............
> inux users get to use Linux but they still need to buy ATI card to use it....who is winning here???? users or ATI???



As far as what I believe, there is a slight un-notice-able ethical difference between OSS software companies and Linux, don't confuse both.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Mar 8, 2008)

Garbage said:


> WHY ??? :O
> 
> Any reason to say it's bad ?? Please let us know yaar...




```
while(win_popularity!=less)
{
 cout << " A person trained in both Lin and Win kicks the arse out of the [b]Lin Only[/b] anywhere and everywhere"
}
```


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> There is a hell lot of a difference between, *"it's just about the money"* and "*it's about the money"*




Ok, thanx for telling me that Red Hat & Novell are supporting Linux & giving support only for there own Linux distribution, using the developement of Fedora to use in there server OS, using the developement of OSS to make money is cos they want to make the world a better place for generations to come. They don't need money, they don't need to pay developers, it's all about the generosity of Linux & these companies. 




> As far as what I believe, there is a slight un-notice-able ethical difference between OSS software companies and Linux, don't confuse both.


 
So, Linux is good....but making money through Linux is bad, so isn't Read Hat as evil as Microsoft? Red hat only supports RPM officially in Fedora, why can't they give the user a choice & let him use deb only system.


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## Hackattack (Mar 8, 2008)

So what are they gonna teach Ubuntu ?


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Mar 8, 2008)

hey can some one explain the FOSS ??
Some FOSS expert please enlighten this thing !
*
Can something licensed under GPL/GNU thing be used for commercial purposes or not ??

*PS : Say Yes or No, Links with pages and paragraphs to be considered bad answers !


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## Garbage (Mar 8, 2008)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> hey can some one explain the FOSS ??
> Some FOSS expert please enlighten this thing !
> *
> Can something licensed under GPL/GNU thing be used for commercial purposes or not ??
> ...


AFAIK - *NO !!!*


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## Hackattack (Mar 8, 2008)

But what's the government gonna do about the windows key on the keyboard  how are they gonna get rid of that . 

*static.howstuffworks.com/gif/keyboard-12.jpg

*pcgeekdom.com/images/forblogs/windowkey.jpg

*www.simplehelp.net/images/winkey/windowskey00.jpg


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

Well, Linux users will now stop buying keyboard of logitech etc because it doesn't have a Penguin Key 

They are going to file a petition against all input device companies for giving a keyboard with Windows Key.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 8, 2008)

*Ques:*


gx_saurav said:


> So, Linux is good....but making money through Linux is bad, so isn't Read Hat as evil as Microsoft? Red hat only supports RPM officially in Fedora, why can't they give the user a choice & let him use deb only system.



*Ans:*


Cyrus_the_virus said:


> There is a hell lot of a difference between, *"it's just about the money"* and "*it's about the money"*


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## ~Phenom~ (Mar 8, 2008)

Its a good move .It should be implemented in whole of India but Windows should not be completely banned. Teaching Linux on a greater scale and for doing all common tasks will make students/people aware that World can survive without windows also , as against now when many people think Windows is integral component of a computer.It will save a real LOT of money if any school/college is spending on purchasing any windows/softwares which I haven't seen in any school/college I have  come  across in my life. Also,  One can learn windows in a day anytime , right ???


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## praka123 (Mar 8, 2008)

I can see how frustrated win only fans are reading this  I feel pity for them!

I am *proud* of my state 

What Kerala gov did was the need of the second!
also,M$haft winblow$ is used by many pvt schools along with Linux,JFYI!

Now I know why,M$haft and its devils raided in trivendrum for piracy,fcuk u M$haft,ur finished 

regarding the distro used:
it is called it@school which is a custom debian remastered(like Ubuntu too) containing more debian-edu packages.

Now students are gonna learn the correct ideology and knowing what FREEDOM is!unlike devils own M$haft monopoly!


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## NucleusKore (Mar 8, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> Right, but companies which u mentioned like Red Hat or Novell make money on the work of the community & get rich, they don't pay back to the community in money, do they?



Aaaaaaaaaaah!! Gotcha! They *do* in many more ways than one. Do you know how many developers are on their payroll? Do you know the contribution of Novell? and RedHat

You can install RedHat Linux or SLED without getting sued by them as the OS is open source. You just won't get support, that's all. CentOS is a port of RHEL in case you did not know.



gx_saurav said:


> I hope you know about education License of Microsoft??????? Well, sure u don't. They are already doing this.
> 
> Here in Lucknow, any Computer Science or IT Student in IET college lucknow (biggest engg college here) can simply get a license for XP/Vista/.net/Server 2008 for a far lower price, after showing his college ID card & other documents etc, cos IET is in collaboration with MS.



Yes I am aware, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY!! How much for the OS? And I remember seeing the cost of Microsoft Office Teacher and Student edition on their website, Rs. 7500 ? Is that cheap?




praka123 said:


> I can see how frustrated win only fans are reading this  I feel pity for them!



Yes, it's pretty obvious.



praka123 said:


> I am *proud* of my state



I hope it's infectious, we're just next door you know


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## ilugd (Mar 8, 2008)

just my two cents.
1. Nothing wrong in the deal. The Government is supposed to set policy and avoid unnecessary spending. It is its jobs. Schools will now implement it.
2. Fighting about the merits of both is actually immaterial now. Both have their own strong points, but for a common student who doesn't actually intend to go into a technical field, but just for office work, any operating system is ok if he has basic knowledge in it. Support may be patchy for now, but soon the local engineers will pick up the necessary skills. Others will follow suit. Kerala is sure showing the way here.
3. It is not that windows will completely disappear. And remember that this is for schools only. You don't play games in school. You can install windows on your home system and play to your heart's content. It is also good for students to have exposure in multiple systems. Will make their concepts a wee bit clearer.
4. It is not really hard. If you get used to it, no problems. I really understand the comment made by my friend here. "will take two years to get to know how to play mp3s" You got to be kidding me right? or you are so out of touch of development in linux now. Unless you have exotic hardware, you have no problems with linux.
5. It is not about money only. It is more about giving students the freedom to look under the hood. Windows is ok, no problems, but once students start using linux, computers will not be some scary devices. 
6. Making money isn't exactly bad. But making your users resent you for inconveniencing them for the sake of money is bad. Very bad. 


There is however one problem. 
Where are they gonna get teachers to teach linux? Anybody thought about that?

Also the Kerala State Cyber Team should setup a good quality website with tutorials and videos on linux so that students can visit and learn about linux. Maybe even provide interesting Educational CDs with Videos and audio material to students. Otherwise the effort may be a damp squib.


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## goobimama (Mar 8, 2008)

I loved Gx's first comment! Classic!

As for Linux in schools, this is big news..


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## NucleusKore (Mar 8, 2008)

ilugd said:


> just my two cents.
> 1. Nothing wrong in the deal. The Government is supposed to set policy and avoid unnecessary spending. It is its jobs. Schools will now implement it.



Yes



ilugd said:


> 2. Fighting about the merits of both is actually immaterial now. Both have their own strong points, but for a common student who doesn't actually intend to go into a technical field, but just for office work, any operating system is ok if he has basic knowledge in it. Support may be patchy for now, but soon the local engineers will pick up the necessary skills. Others will follow suit. Kerala is sure showing the way here.



Yes, and earlier when it was windows only it was "fair", according to some on this thread, crazy people.



ilugd said:


> 3. It is not that windows will completely disappear. And remember that this is for schools only. You don't play games in school. You can install windows on your home system and play to your heart's content. It is also good for students to have exposure in multiple systems. Will make their concepts a wee bit clearer.



Point well taken. In fact you hit the nail on the head.



ilugd said:


> j4. It is not really hard. If you get used to it, no problems. I really understand the comment made by my friend here. "will take two years to get to know how to play mp3s" You got to be kidding me right? or you are so out of touch of development in linux now. Unless you have exotic hardware, you have no problems with linux.



Oh yes that someone is SO OUT OF TOUCH.



ilugd said:


> 5. It is not about money only. It is more about giving students the freedom to look under the hood. Windows is ok, no problems, but once students start using linux, computers will not be some scary devices.



Yes, they can really learn it in depth.



ilugd said:


> 6. Making money isn't exactly bad. But making your users resent you for inconveniencing them for the sake of money is bad. Very bad.







ilugd said:


> There is however one problem.
> Where are they gonna get teachers to teach linux? Anybody thought about that?
> 
> Also the Kerala State Cyber Team should setup a good quality website with tutorials and videos on linux so that students can visit and learn about linux. Maybe even provide interesting Educational CDs with Videos and audio material to students. Otherwise the effort may be a damp squib.



Yes, it is a problem, especially when teachers are stubborn.

Another step in the right direction is to educate all our *hardware "engineers"* who come to our homes on how to install and deploy desktop linux, preferably the distro which is going to be adopted by the schools. This will ensure that on site support is available, and learning at schools in continuous at home. Imagine going back to Windows only PC at home, at least it should be *dual boot*.

A natural fallout of all this is ISPs will have to be sensitive to the issues faced by linux users and *stop* promoting *windows only* hardware


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## praka123 (Mar 8, 2008)

ilugd said:
			
		

> Also the Kerala State Cyber Team should setup a good quality *website* with tutorials and videos on linux so that students can visit and learn about linux. Maybe even provide interesting Educational CDs with Videos and audio material to students. Otherwise the effort may be a damp squib.


Here is the site though they seems experimenting  :
*www.space-kerala.org/
and Linux Helpdesk:
*support.space-kerala.org/

and I never will say if someone's personal choice is window$ -it is OK.
even central gov syllabus schools(which are soon gonna be taken over to kerala syllabus dumping cbse,ncert whatever! 8) ) insists on u put ur b*tt on windows are experimenting with GNU/Linux distros these days!a welcome change 

but this unwanted *weeds* like spreading of windows via piracy and its troubles(including _weak_ OS, and buying $$$$ worth licenses)  wherever we find this "old species" of OS which should be dumped out of earth


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## ilugd (Mar 8, 2008)

See I now use linux full time on both my home and office systems. I love linux and am learning a lot. I also support windows maintenance and administration on over 20 systems in my office and over 100 in my region for my office. So I am not biased.

All I say to the fanboys is, "May the best OS win!"
If linux is good enough, evolution will make sure that it gets it place. If not, windows will rule. Either way it works out good to have competition. 

And NucleusKore, thanks for all those affirmations. You just made me stand a little bit taller.


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## praka123 (Mar 8, 2008)

ravi_9793 said:


> You may add any point..but it is universal truth. Windows has better support. And I think game is essential part of life. I cant imagine my life without PC games. And yes, linux do have very less software in compare to windows.


I pity on this adement behaviour  ! what support of M$haft are u advocating,eh?format-reinstall routine?do u have nothing new to say rather than defending ur Yajaman?

Linux software's -just check any repository of any linux distro.go,use Linux and come here to protect M$haft  get some points before spitting FUDs!


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

NucleusKore said:


> Aaaaaaaaaaah!! Gotcha! They *do* in many more ways than one. Do you know how many developers are on their payroll? Do you know the contribution of Novell? and RedHat


 
Yes, there *own *developers. Not someone like Joe Coder.



> You can install RedHat Linux or SLED without getting sued by them as the OS is open source. You just won't get support, that's all. CentOS is a port of RHEL in case you did not know.


 
Yup, they charge for support. Isn't that what MS also does???? So why MS is evil but not red hat



> Yes I am aware, BUT THEY STILL HAVE TO PAY!! How much for the OS? And I remember seeing the cost of Microsoft Office Teacher and Student edition on their website, Rs. 7500 ? Is that cheap?


 
Show me the website plz, or r u converting $ to Rs.


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## NucleusKore (Mar 8, 2008)

ilugd said:


> And NucleusKore, thanks for all those affirmations. You just made me stand a little bit taller.



You're welcome.

Just for the record, I am a genuine Windows XP home user, but I run on Open SuSE or CentOS most of the time. 

I carry a nimbleX cd with me to college and boot from it and browse as I do not fancy my passwords being stolen.

I provide free support Windows and Linux to staff and students in my college, if they get their laptops to me. I provide free telephone support too provided they make the call. With windows I focus more on prevention than cure, which is why I have become popular - educating people about antivirus and firewalls (they think windows firewall is enough  ), using genuine software - if you cannot afford office use open office. I also distribute Linux at my cost price - Rs. 10/CD (MORE) and Rs. 20/DVD (SONY).

And like I said earlier, if Microsoft wants to provide Windows, and maybe Office free of cost to schools and their students they'll be more than welcome.



gx_saurav said:


> Show me the website plz, or r u converting $ to Rs.



[size=+1]Ok its not Rs. 7500 any more, but Rs. 5000/- isn't *CHEAP!*[/size]
*www.buyoriginalms.com/office2007homestudentedition.aspx


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 8, 2008)

praka123 said:


> I pity on this adement behaviour  ! what support of M$haft are u advocating,eh?format-reinstall routine?do u have nothing new to say rather than defending ur Yajaman?


I have not done any reinstall for 1 and half year. Its just how you use your windows.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2008)

praka123 said:


> I pity on this adement behaviour  ! what support of M$haft are u advocating,eh?format-reinstall routine?


 
I pity at your ignorance.


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 9, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> I pity at your ignorance.


*gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif

Aren't you the same guy who said gmail doesn't have pop and IMAP because of your ignorance in only using Live mail? *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif

Aren't you also the same guy who argued that Sony owns the cell architecture because of your ignorance in staying locked to windows 32bit hardware? *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/21.gif

Now, who's ignorance did you say you were pitying? *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/78.gif


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## praka123 (Mar 9, 2008)

^its better to avoid core f@nboys  else,ur words will be wasted!


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## kalpik (Mar 9, 2008)

praka123 said:


> I can see how frustrated win only fans are reading this  I feel pity for them!
> 
> I am *proud* of my state
> 
> ...


Prakash, please keep it clean.

@everyone, please keep the discussion on-topic.


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## Hitboxx (Mar 9, 2008)

OMG, look at you guys, taking the topic from where to where. Cut it loose, praka and gx always at each others throatx. 

Guess I don't have much to comment except score +1 for Linux and OSS.


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## kumarmohit (Mar 9, 2008)

Fanboyism aside, I am one of the people who think the *principle of freedom of choice *on which Linux is based is much more important than Linux or the entire FOSS movement itself. I guess teaching only Linux brings it down to the level of Microsoft. 

The real freedom would be to teach both solutions to students for three years say class 6,7,8. from 9 onwards, let them choose the platform.

An do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing. What the fcuk do they charge so many taxes for! And not to mention that there is a 0.24% education cess on service tax as well. 

And what is the  need of purchasing new licenses any way. Almost all the schools have licenses already. What is the need of wiping them. Has not the IT and eduction minsters of Kerala heard of something called dual booty computer. There would be absolutely no need.

The very spirit of FOSS is freedom of choice. If FOSS becomes a monopoly, I guess all of us people who believe in freedom have gone horribly wrong somewhere.

Remember that freedom is more important than the tools used to obtain it.


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## ravi_9793 (Mar 9, 2008)

kumarmohit said:


> The real freedom would be to teach both solutions to students for three years say class 6,7,8. from 9 onwards, let them choose the platform.


+1



> An do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing. What the fcuk do they charge so many taxes for! And not to mention that there is a 0.24% education cess on service tax as well.


Again +1



> And what is the  need of purchasing new licenses any way. Almost all the schools have licenses already. What is the need of wiping them. Has not the IT and eduction minsters of Kerala heard of something called dual booty computer. There would be absolutely no need.


Again point.


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## mediator (Mar 9, 2008)

gx said:
			
		

> So, Linux is good....but making money through Linux is bad, so isn't Read Hat as evil as Microsoft? *Red hat only supports RPM officially in Fedora, why can't they give the user a choice & let him use deb only system.*


*www.smileyhut.com/laughing/rofl.gif . Do u even realize what fedora is?



			
				kumarmohit said:
			
		

> If FOSS becomes a monopoly, I guess all of us people who believe in freedom have gone horribly wrong somewhere.
> 
> Remember that freedom is more important than the tools used to obtain it.


U didn't understand the topic I guess. Its not FOSS which is bringing a "monopoly", but a decision by a state! When did FOSS come in between?? 

U can rip apart ur OS, crack it, pirate it, or install OSS or use the traditional registers,pen and paper. Its ur decision!!



			
				kumarmohit said:
			
		

> An do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing. What the fcuk do they charge so many taxes for! And not to mention that there is a 0.24% education cess on service tax as well.


MS-Windows = Rs. ____?
Antivirus = Rs. _____?
MS Office = Rs _____?
etc etc = Rs _____?
All debated and discussed! I wud really like u to tell me if we shud really ignore this money matter thing, even if the school has say 50 computers. How many schools does the state have? Please calculate it all, show ur report and then say "do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing". 



			
				ilugd said:
			
		

> And NucleusKore, thanks for all those affirmations. You just made me stand a little bit taller.


LOL


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## NucleusKore (Mar 9, 2008)

kumarmohit said:


> An do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing. What the fcuk do they charge so many taxes for! And not to mention that there is a 0.24% education cess on service tax as well.



[size=+5]I do not pay taxes to fill Microsoft's coffers.[/size]



gx_saurav said:


> Yes, there *own *developers. Not someone like Joe Coder.



And what these developers do is still open source in their products isn't it? It's not like they are doing something in secret away from the community's scrutiny.



gx_saurav said:


> Yup, they charge for support. Isn't that what MS also does???? So why MS is evil but not red hat



Because Microsoft does not just charge for support, *Microsoft charges for the software, that's the whole point here,* don't cloud the issue. Is Microsoft saying take windows free and pay us only if you want support? You simply cannot compare the business model of RedHat and Microsoft.



gx_saurav said:


> Show me the website plz, or r u converting $ to Rs.



I am not converting $ to Rs.
[size=+1]Office Home and Student Edition is not Rs. 7500 any more, but Rs. 5000/- isn't *CHEAP!*[/size]
*www.buyoriginalms.com/office2007homestudentedition.aspx


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## Kiran.dks (Mar 9, 2008)

A good move indeed. Linux needs more tutorials than Windows. It also helps schools in not to invest on paid OS when free OS is available. Students can learn Windows in less than 3 months at a Computer education center if required.


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## praka123 (Mar 9, 2008)

when someone new to computer is introduced to Linux or windows-the time difference is not much different.contrary to beliefs,New Linux user will be more comfortable after a few hours.

its really taking the toll when moving a windows user to Linux that is time consuming(3 weeks for a hardcore win fanboy?  )


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## fun2sh (Mar 9, 2008)

I will say its a fair move by the gov as it wil sav a lot of money!!!
But i think both OSes should co-exist but i m sure a new person to computer will find linux 1000X difficult than WINDOWS!!


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## NucleusKore (Mar 9, 2008)

fun2sh said:


> I will say its a fair move by the gov as it wil sav a lot of money!!!
> But i think both OSes should co-exist but i m sure a new person to computer will find linux 1000X difficult than WINDOWS!!



And I'm all for co-existence if Microsoft gives windows away to schools free of cost. No point of wasting public money on Microsoft products.

If Microsoft wants students to get acquainted with Office or any of their other products that may be given to schools too. NO PAYING.


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## kumarmohit (Mar 9, 2008)

> I do not pay taxes to fill Microsoft's coffers.



And you do it to fill the pockets of looting politicos. 



> MS-Windows = Rs. ____?
> Antivirus = Rs. _____?
> MS Office = Rs _____?
> etc etc = Rs _____?
> All debated and discussed! I wud really like u to tell me if we shud really ignore this money matter thing, even if the school has say 50 computers. How many schools does the state have? Please calculate it all, show ur report and then say "do not give me that 'Govt has no money and they want to cut cost' thing".



As told earlier, there is no need to purchase new licenses, they already have enuf licenses. And for Antivirus, they can use any number of free antivirus solutions out there. Umm, one was included in this month's Digit, What was it Moon or something. 



> U didn't understand the topic I guess. Its not FOSS which is bringing a "monopoly", but a decision by a state! When did FOSS come in between??



In Windows cases, it MS imposing iots monopoly, in this case, it is govt. You know who is the ultimate loser in all this, it is the Freedom of Choice.




> U can rip apart ur OS, crack it, pirate it, or install OSS or use the traditional registers,pen and paper. Its ur decision!!


Do you really expect the teacher to teach kernel level programming at school! 

I am saying again that for me Freedom of choice is more important than the concept of Free software.


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## gary4gar (Mar 9, 2008)

fun2sh said:


> i m sure a new person to computer will find linux 1000X difficult than WINDOWS!!



Totally Wrong!
My Younger cousin who never used a PC learned Linux faster than me as he didn't have any previous computing experience . His Fav application is Tuxpaint. 

On the other hand i had lot of troubles Using Linux, as i was too used to windows.

Its like from starting we are taught in decimal number systems so we find other number system. I bet if someone have been taught hex from start he would find decimal difficult.



> Preston Gralla is the author of Windows Vista in a Nutshell, the Windows Vista Pocket Reference, and is the editor of WindowsDevCenter.com. He is also the author of Internet Annoyances, PC Pest Control, Windows XP Power Hound, and Windows XP Hacks, Second Edition, and co-author of Windows XP Cookbook. He has written more than 30 other books.



He Writes & I quote "I've been a Windows die-hard for more years than I want to remember, having used the operating system since even before the prehistoric days of Windows 3.1.

So when my 14-year-old son Gabe came home from his first summer job (where he's learning the open source joys of Python, PHP, and MySQL), extolling the virtues of Linux, I was skeptical. Old habits, and old operating systems, die hard."

"On the desktop, Linux may be more stable than Windows"

"One thing going for desktop Linux is its price and the price of applications like the OpenOffice.org suite -- you can't argue with free."

A Last Point that proves that he is a fan boy


> 'm a long-time shareware fan, and there's far more useful and easily available shareware available for Windows than Linux.



*www.oreilly.com/pub/wlg/5211

If a Fan boy can find Linux 1% usefully then its really usefully
So for every Die hard windows user is would be hard to switch but for the new users its easy Job.


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## praka123 (Mar 9, 2008)

It is human to resist to changes,even if it is better to.(same with windows boys to Linux!)


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## ilugd (Mar 9, 2008)

Just one point that needs to be cleared. It is not like a ban on windows or something. I don't think that is the sense of the thing. Sometimes, to get things moving, strict policy has to be set. In this linux adoption thingy, unless such a clear guideline is given, no school would have done it. Let me explain. 
Freedom will not be affected in the long time. Like I remember reading once, freedom sometimes has to be enforced, when people do not know what freedom is. Let me give you an example, say in a school, students usually have teachers who do not allow them to speak, but just give lectures. There comes along a new teacher who wants the students to participate in the classes interactively. Obviously the students don't speak up. They are too conditioned to be quiet. The teacher then makes a rule that each students HAS to speak on one topic daily. That is called enforcing freedom of speech. Once the students understand that it is ok, that rule is no longer needed. This decision by the Kerala government needs to be taken in that sense. 
And as far as taxes are concerned, it is the government should go for the best option at the most minimum cost involved. Corruption does not enter the equation. That is a whole different topic. And about license in schools, that is a laugh. Most of the schools don't even know that Windows is to be bought. 99% of teachers don't know that. Maybe some students do. Most Indian schools are like that. I don't think kerala is much better.


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## gary4gar (Mar 9, 2008)

ilugd said:


> Just one point that needs to be cleared. It is not like a ban on windows or something. I don't think that is the sense of the thing. Sometimes, to get things moving, strict policy has to be set. In this linux adoption thingy, unless such a clear guideline is given, no school would have done it. Let me explain.
> Freedom will not be affected in the long time. Like I remember reading once, freedom sometimes has to be enforced, when people do not know what freedom is. Let me give you an example, say in a school, students usually have teachers who do not allow them to speak, but just give lectures. There comes along a new teacher who wants the students to participate in the classes interactively. Obviously the students don't speak up. They are too conditioned to be quiet. The teacher then makes a rule that each students HAS to speak on one topic daily. That is called enforcing freedom of speech. Once the students understand that it is ok, that rule is no longer needed. This decision by the Kerala government needs to be taken in that sense.
> And as far as taxes are concerned, it is the government should go for the best option at the most minimum cost involved. Corruption does not enter the equation. That is a whole different topic. And about license in schools, that is a laugh. Most of the schools don't even know that Windows is to be bought. 99% of teachers don't know that. Maybe some students do. Most Indian schools are like that. I don't think kerala is much better.


+1


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Mar 9, 2008)

Can you all please try to make the distinction between *"NEWS"* and *"FIGHT CLUB"??*

This is News, no point arguing about it, coz it is something already decided upon or done and nothing you say or do is going to change it now. That is what is called "NEWS". It's something that is already over!



Cyrus_the_virus said:


> The bottom line is.. the news is the real deal, it's done.. so shutup now  **
> 
> **pun for broadminded, attack for fanboys



If you want to fight about something, open a new thread in the fight club or something and fight there, this is the technology section, so stop crapping it.

@Winboys, where were you guys when only windows were running on school computers? how different was it? where was your argument about choice then? so stop this crap about choice when you didn't care about it in the first place!! seriously!

Rest all, the choice is still open, but as far as schools are concerned, the move has already been made which will save your and my money! For most of the people on the forum here, who are just young and don't pay taxes will simply not understand the meaning of this. For those of you like me who work and pay more than Rs15,000/- in tax every year, you bet! it's a dam hell of a serious matter for us as to where government decides to spend our money!! So, for those of you who thrive by getting paid windows software of your parents money or some part time work which you did and don't pay tax, this is simply not going to make sense to you!

No one is stopping anybody from using whatever OS they want in their life, only that the government has decided it will teach something that makes economical and statistical sense. You want to learn something a private company makes, then go spend your private money and learn it yourself, I am simply not going to let the government pay you with my money for you to learn something that a monopolistic private company wants you to learn, go make your own money and learn that $h1t!



			
				NucleusKore said:
			
		

> *I do not pay taxes to fill Microsoft's coffers.*


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## NucleusKore (Mar 9, 2008)

^+1@ilugd



kumarmohit said:


> And you do it to fill the pockets of looting politicos.



That anyway happens, it's not like the added burden of Microsoft licenses will make corruption vanish! 



kumarmohit said:


> As told earlier, there is no need to purchase new licenses, they already have enuf licenses.



How do you know?



kumarmohit said:


> And for Antivirus, they can use any number of free antivirus solutions out there. Umm, one was included in this month's Digit, What was it Moon or something.



If free anivirus was so good I do not think paid would have had a chance. Do you trust your Windows with a free antivirus? I don't.



kumarmohit said:


> In Windows cases, it MS imposing iots monopoly, in this case, it is govt. You know who is the ultimate loser in all this, it is the Freedom of Choice.



In this case I'm with the government.



kumarmohit said:


> Do you really expect the teacher to teach kernel level programming at school!



I don't, and neither is the FSF movement or FOSS movement asking for that! Whatever made you think of kernel programming in school. Let them learn to use Linux just like they use windows, to enjoy computers and use it as a productivity tool


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## praka123 (Mar 9, 2008)

I hope TN,karnadaka too follow this!  (AFAIK TN moved many of their offices to Linux and FOSS ?)

@cyrus:what u said is 100% right!I never thought like -our money paid as tax is used to teach kids a private monopolistic M$'s proprietary OS!
like ppl learning Maya or blender in "private" institutions,Winblow$ also should be teached somewhere outside gov schools


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## NucleusKore (Mar 9, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> Can you all please try to make the distinction between *"NEWS"* and *"FIGHT CLUB"??*
> 
> This is News, no point arguing about it, coz it is something already decided upon or done and nothing you say or do is going to change it now. That is what is called "NEWS". It's something that is already over!
> 
> If you want to fight about something, open a new thread in the fight club or something and fight there, this is the technology section, so stop crapping it.



The fight would not have started if it wasn't for this post no. 3

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82156#3

*img166.imageshack.us/img166/6759/chm5pdf1wb1.th.png


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## ilugd (Mar 9, 2008)

LOL. Point taken. 
/me shuts up.


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## kumarmohit (Mar 9, 2008)

In case people start getting me wrong I am not against Linux being taught, I am for teaching them both and allowing them to choose when they are capable of making the choice.



> That anyway happens, it's not like the added burden of Microsoft licenses will make corruption vanish!



I think that money going to MS is still better where devs slog instead of going to politicos.



> How do you know?


They have enuf licenses to allow them to teach both Linux and Windows. Considering that Linux would be sharing the burden. The figures are public, for more info, please file and RTI. 



> If free anivirus was so good I do not think paid would have had a chance. Do you trust your Windows with a free antivirus? I don't.



For a change, I do! I am using Win XP with AVG free, I also run DSL in a virtual machine. I have never been let down. And the Moon anti virus is open source as well. 



> In this case I'm with the government.



Then I am sorry to say but you never truly understood the reason that drives FOSS.


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## kalpik (Mar 9, 2008)

Cyrus_the_virus said:


> Can you all please try to make the distinction between *"NEWS"* and *"FIGHT CLUB"??*
> 
> This is News, no point arguing about it, coz it is something already decided upon or done and nothing you say or do is going to change it now. That is what is called "NEWS". It's something that is already over!
> 
> ...


+1



gx_saurav said:


> They should open "Windows" else the classrooms will get very suffocated with penguins & there sh!t all over.


Please don't post in a thread if you cannot add to the discussion in a civilized and well behaved manner.


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