# Islam And Terrorism



## apacheman (Jul 17, 2007)

*MUSLIMS ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS AND TERRORISTS 
*

*Why are most of the Muslims fundamentalists and terrorists? *

This question is often hurled at Muslims, either directly or indirectly, during any discussion on religion or world affairs. Muslim stereotypes are perpetuated in every form of the media accompanied by gross misinformation about Islam and Muslims. In fact, such misinformation and false propaganda often leads to discrimination and acts of violence against Muslims. A case in point is the anti-Muslim campaign in the American media following the Oklahoma bomb blast, where the press was quick to declare a ‘Middle Eastern conspiracy’ behind the attack. The culprit was later identified as a soldier from the American Armed Forces. 

Let us analyze this allegation of ‘fundamentalism’ and ‘terrorism’: 

*1. Definition of the word ‘fundamentalist’ *

A fundamentalist is a person who follows and adheres to the fundamentals of the doctrine or theory he is following. For a person to be a good doctor, he should know, follow, and practise the fundamentals of medicine. In other words, he should be a fundamentalist in the field of medicine. For a person to be a good mathematician, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of mathematics. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of mathematics. For a person to be a good scientist, he should know, follow and practise the fundamentals of science. He should be a fundamentalist in the field of science. 

*2. Not all ‘fundamentalists’ are the same *

One cannot paint all fundamentalists with the same brush. One cannot categorize all fundamentalists as either good or bad. Such a categorization of any fund amentalist will depend upon the field or activity in which he is a fundamentalist. A fundamentalist robber or thief causes harm to society and is therefore undesirable. A fundamentalist doctor, on the other hand, benefits society and earns much respect. 

*3. I am proud to be a Muslim fundamentalist *

I am a fundamentalist Muslim who, by the grace of Allah, knows, follows and strives to practise the fundamentals of Islam. A true Muslim does not shy away from being a fundamentalist. I am proud to be a fundamentalist Muslim because, I know that the fundamentals of Islam are beneficial to humanity and the whole world. There is not a single fundamental of Islam that causes harm or is against the interests of the human race as a whole. Many people harbour misconceptions about Islam and consider several teachings of Islam to be unfair or improper. This is due to insufficient and incorrect knowledge of Islam. If one critically analyzes the teachings of Islam with an open mind, one cannot escape the fact that Islam is full of benefits both at the individual and collective levels. 

*4. Dictionary meaning of the word ‘fundamentalist’ 
*
According to Webster’s dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ was a movement in American Protestanism that arose in the earlier part of the 20th century. It was a reaction to modernism, and stressed the infallibility of the Bible, not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record. It stressed on belief in the Bible as the literal word of God. Thus fundamentalism was a word initially used for a group of Christians who believed that the Bible was the verbatim word of God without any errors and mistakes. 

According to the Oxford dictionary ‘fundamentalism’ means ‘strict maintenance of ancient or fundamental doctrines of any religion, especially Islam’. 

Today the moment a person uses the word fundamentalist he thinks of a Muslim who is a terrorist. 

*5. Every Muslim should be a terrorist *

Every Muslim should be a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the antisocial elements of society, such as thieves, dacoits and rapists. Whenever such an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among the common people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to selective people i.e. anti-social elements, and not to the common innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace for innocent people. 

*6. Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’ *

Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters. 

It is therefore important that before a person is judged, he is given a fair hearing. Both sides of the argument should be heard, the situation should be analyzed, and the reason and the intention of the person should be taken into account, and then the person can be judged accordingly. 

*7. Islam means peace *

Islam is derived from the word ‘salaam’ which means peace. It is a religion of peace whose fundamentals teach its followers to maintain and promote peace throughout the world. 

Thus every Muslim should be a fundamentalist i.e. he should follow the fundamentals of the Religion of Peace: Islam. He should be a terrorist only towards the antisocial elements in order to promote peace and justice in the society.


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## gaurav_indian (Jul 17, 2007)

Are you telling or asking? B/w i dont support these kinds of sensitive issues to be discussed in forums.As i have many Pakistani friends i dont like these Hindu vs Muslims thing.Sorry but i hate these kinds of topics.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 17, 2007)

u r not the only one.

All religions say the same thing, peace & humanity. Even Bin Laden is a gr8 leader, however he is misleading people towards distruction for his personal endeavors


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## apacheman (Jul 17, 2007)

gaurav_indian said:
			
		

> Are you telling or asking? B/w i dont support these kinds of sensitive issues to be discussed in forums.As i have many Pakistani friends i dont like these Hindu vs Muslims thing.Sorry but i hate these kinds of topics.



Jeez...there's nthn of da Hindu vs Muslim in this thread..Read it thoroughly, my boy... dont jus comment by glancing at it once.


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## gaurav_indian (Jul 17, 2007)

apacheman said:
			
		

> Jeez...there's nthn of da Hindu vs Muslim in this thread..Read it thoroughly, my boy... dont jus comment by glancing at it once.


Mere bache yahan jyadatar hindu hi hai.Aur jab woh comment karenge toh Hindu vs muslim nahi hoga? Thread reported.


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## apacheman (Jul 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> u r not the only one.
> 
> Even Bin Laden is a gr8 leader, however he is misleading people towards distruction for his personal endeavors



well, hope u dont blindly trust what the media says about Bin Laden. No one really know the truth about him. but one thing is for sure, he was definitely not behind the WTC as publicised by the Western Media. Bush n associates jus used him as an excuse for their dominion n intruding of Middle east countries.
Even U.S citizens agree to the fact that Bush govt had planned the WTC attack. Even the video footage aired was fake n pre-planned by CNN n BBC.


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## iMav (Jul 17, 2007)

^^  u really believe those conspiracy theories  .... 

*Every terrorist is a Freedom Fighter for his land*


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## apacheman (Jul 17, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ^^  u really believe those conspiracy theories  ....



9/11 was an inside job. it was a conpiracy by Bush n his damn associates. its quite obvious. Look at the evidence, Pentagon could not be hit by a plane, it was definitely not, it was a missile. Watch Loose Change. Put ur thinking caps on. 

www.ny911truth.org/
www.911sharethetruth.com/
www.911truth.org/
www.loosechange911.com/

n yea, the word is out dat Bin Laden might be dead ....long before.


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## iMav (Jul 17, 2007)

all conspiracy theories which have been discussed on this board loooooooooooooong ago so dont start all of tht all over again ... bush didnt call u and tell u tht he did it so its america's problem let them deal with it


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## apacheman (Jul 17, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> all conspiracy theories which have been discussed on this board loooooooooooooong ago so dont start all of tht all over again ... bush didnt call u and tell u tht he did it so its america's problem let them deal with it


well, yea.... u've got a point. cheers.


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## Aberforth (Aug 2, 2007)

I'll tell you something apacheman. It is this obession with religion which makes the world look at Muslims with paranoia. This is first of all a technology forum and there are hardly any religious discussion here. I believe most members here do not give a penny about what Muslims are and are not. What I see here is a subtle attempt on your part in missionary works, unless of course you have something else up your sleeve.


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## ~Lil JinX~ (Aug 7, 2007)

I agree with some points, and I disagree with some.

I think, the main 'problem' that comes into play is not fundamentalism- everyone should be free to think and believe what they deem best. The main problem here is fanaticism (which, incidentally, is NOT restricted to Islam). The problem is that some people tend to interpret the scriptures (whichever they may follow) to their liking and to their convenience. 

@Aberforth 
Hmm...*realizes that what I said is very similar to what you did. Anyway, meh* Ah, and I'd also like to point out that its not only Muslims that are 'obsessed with religion' You see that trend in almost all faiths.


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## Aberforth (Aug 9, 2007)

~Lil JinX~, I agree that I see that trend in all faiths but compare the obession of a Muslim with that of others. How many Hindu, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhist or Jews made a thread about religion on this forum? Muslims made at least two of them.


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## faraaz (Aug 10, 2007)

My cousin was admitted to the Stanford Graduate School of Business...but he is now being denied a Visa because he is Muslim. No other reason...he got a 750 on his GMAT, he had a 3.9/4.0 GPA, he was the only Indian fresher to be admitted to the GSB in a LONG time. AND he was granted a visa once before already for his engineering course...he opted not to do that but go to Australia instead though. And now he applied for his VISA 3 months ago. It has still not come and they say that it probably wont.

**** America, **** their paranoia, and please keep in mind I am a Muslim as I say this, **** ALL YOU MUSLIMS WHO HAVE RUINED OUR COMMUNITY IN THIS WORLD!


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## cynosure (Aug 10, 2007)

Offtopic: ^^ I know dude. Sh1t happens. Now America and someother first world countries are showing this kinda attitude to the entire south asian community, not only muslims. They are phasing out the scholarships and everything in their colleges. 
They think their people can have no cons. Terrorists kill people coz of religion, Americans kill people coz of GTA/Doom and Manhunt. Whats the similarity between the two clans??? BOth are bunch of arseholes.


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## karnivore (Aug 10, 2007)

^^ amen to that.


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## minniawochat (Aug 12, 2007)

cynosure said:
			
		

> Whats the similarity between the two clans??? BOth are bunch of arseholes.




ha ha ha ha ha has    

You Said the Point

thanks


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 12, 2007)

America is a land of fools.


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## vish786 (Aug 12, 2007)

gaurav_indian said:
			
		

> America is a land of fools.



except the indians living their.


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 12, 2007)

vish786 said:
			
		

> except the indians living their.


Its understandable lol.


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## shantanu (Aug 12, 2007)

There are hindu terriorist groups too.. sikh too.. its not only muslims.. in every thing as we say it ,, all five fingers are not alike.. so you cant blame all of the community or religion just because of some bad in it. 


it has become a normal thinking now-a-days that muslims are terrorists. well can anyone explain what a terrorist is ?
isnt bush a terrorist then ?
well he is not , because he lead a most powerfull nation among the group.
America is land where duality leads. 

i wont say much on the topic.. but reading the first line itself makes me a bit tensed.. i wont edit anything.. as the topic is going in discussion.. but this kind of threads should not be posted, which can hurt some values of a person..

The thread was not reported, i dont know whether i should have posted this or not.. but my heart said me to write..


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 12, 2007)

^^ Shivsena and Bajrang dal are those groups.They do gundagiri everywhere.Someone has to stop them.They dont want any north indian there why?Any Indian can go anywhere in India noone can stop them.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Aug 12, 2007)

gaurav_indian said:
			
		

> America is a land of fools.


and how foolish is calling an entire country fool


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 12, 2007)

Arsenal_Gunners said:
			
		

> and how foolish is calling an entire country fool


haha lol that was said by Johnny Depp


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Aug 12, 2007)

^^That doesnt make it right.


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 12, 2007)

Arsenal_Gunners said:
			
		

> ^^That doesnt make it right.


But that doesnt make it wrong either.


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## Arsenal_Gunners (Aug 12, 2007)

That is the point of the thread.It is foolish to generalise all people as terrorists or fools.


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## shantanu (Aug 12, 2007)

Sourabh sign : You can think i am wrong.. but thats no reason to stop thinking.. 

@arsenal : you are right..


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## praka123 (Aug 12, 2007)

*First dont be so "religious"-that will make you a terrorist!*

One Word-Let the brain of the "religious" be open.there is something to do when we hear that Muslims in India are under religious persecution  that too spreaded by/from our neighbors Islamic Utopias!(noted from some south asia forums).believe it!India gives you the freedom which "saudi-arabia" can only dream of  .being religious is good.but don't let u immerse and follow each and every word of your Holy Book(s)  atleast consider this is 21st century.Let be we courteous to our nation first.let us see the different religions coexist peacefully(not all areas).
there is something which the teachings have to do with terrorism.never ever go with the word jihad.Leave the brain-wash of whole Islamic world be united,others be eliminated etc etc. Just read the words of what Islamic Khalipfite will offer for us:


> The *Moplah rebellion* (also known as the *Mopla riots*) was a British-Muslim and Hindu-Muslim conflict in Kerala that occurred in 1921. During the early months of 1921, multiple events including the Khilafat movement and the Karachi resolution fueled the fires of rebellion. A rumour spread amongst the Moplahs that the British rule had ended and the Islamic Caliphate had been re-established at Delhi.
> According to one view, the reasons for the Moplah rebellion was religious revivalism among the Muslim Moplahs, and hostility toward land-owning Hindu Nair community and the British administration that inevitably supported the latter.
> [...]
> On Aug 20, the first incident of the rebellion occurred at Tirurangadi when the District Magistrate of Calicut with the help of troops attempted to arrest a few Moplah leaders who were in the possession of arms, resulting in clashes.
> ...


 read:
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopla
 (Moplas are Malabar muslims who are converted by Malik ibn Deenar in the Prophets era itself in Kerala.The Muslim Mappilas are the earliest known Indian Muslim community, having existed since the 8th century AD, when Arab merchants who had long been trading with the Chera kingdom converted them to Islam, based on the preachings of monotheism by Muhammad in Arabia
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moplah#Muslim_Mappilas
)


we,the other indians or what u call non-muslims are not  like some saudi/arab warlords who is getting ur eyes removed,parts-parts removed.this nation is something which is different,better than the crude middle-eastern barbarians existed so many centuries ago.this is a country which got a better  civilization which is to be respected.never take Hinduism as a religion.it is the culture of India.be it south,west or eastern parts.only some organizations makes the name that Hindu are different.remember "Atidhi Devo Bhava" and that generosity allowed semitic religions prosper here too.
and before expecting me to be a "hindu" -let me disclose to you-I am not a  Hindu-if that is what ur particular of.I have seen this behaviour for eg: one user here in this forum has "detected" that this forum is a "hindu" forum.wth? 
MY Muslim Bro,dont be paranoid and divide ppl as muslims and non-muslims.let not "completely" follow the teachings.have some rational thinking too.without enemity,without sword and *not* a swashbuckler -me


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## vish786 (Aug 12, 2007)

*Re: First dont be so "religious"-that will make you a terrorist!*



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> One Word-Let the brain of the "religious" be open.there is something to do when we hear that Muslims in India are under religious persecution  that too spreaded by/from our neighbors Islamic Utopias!(noted from some south asia forums).believe it!


 one reason they  do this is, those people cannot see india prosper.


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## vaithy (Aug 12, 2007)

Hello Praka123,
As a native of Kerala, you know very well the history of Kerala, than me. But I found, it is not very much clubbing the Moplah rebellion, with that of, Muslims fundametalist's,  To day Madani may be their idol,(although they hate idol worship, bowing to Laden's pictures often caused them to be distanced from the teachings Mohammed) but they are actually the sons of the soil, and they are different from thus they come from invading races.. from my childhood I have the opportunity to know the differences  from various Muslims communities in India...Except moplah all others are either converted hindus, or mixed races and have  three hundreds years History where as Moplah has more than thousand year History.  They took pride being part of Indian culture.. any foreign Muslim visitor to their House will feel they come to some sort of Hindu Home.. I know, the rebellion has made deep wound in many Keralaite, but there are different versions there.. it is high time to forget that incidents and build a prosperous state...

with regards,
Vaithy


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## praka123 (Aug 12, 2007)

I just wantedto make things clear.so took that as an example.
and how these ppl expected a Islamic kingdom!!!
reg,lineage:
Moplah's,Byari's of Mangalore and Gujarath Kacchi Memons are supposed to be native Hindus assimilated to Islam by arab.if u visit Kodungalloor,near Ernakulam-u can see Cheraman Palli(masjid) which is like a temple itself.
not only Moplah's,the Syrian Christian diaspora here is converted by St.Thomas during AD52 itself.the churches inside looks similar to temples.also these Syrian Christians unlike Goan or Mangalorean Christians are not force converted.Syrian Christian's are claiming their  ancestory on Namboodiri Brahmins,Yahoodi's(judist).they are culturally the same as Native Hindu's.and are upper class.
^^^just quoted for ur information.
you seems to get the wrong picture reg that.while i Know that there is this Thulukkar's(Rawther,Labbai,etc) which are also here in kerala-they are not native to TN.there is some mix.that's all.then there is urdu speaking Dakhani's eg:Hyderabad.

reg Ma-adani i have heard myself his speeches loong back-he can motivate ppl to do *whatever* and getting provoked.now i hope he be silent as he claims. 

I just Hopes Patriotism be part of all Indians without mixing Religions in btwn.


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## vish786 (Aug 12, 2007)

*Re: First dont be so "religious"-that will make you a terrorist!*



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> I have seen this behaviour for eg: one user here in this forum has "detected" that this forum is a "hindu" forum.wth?
> MY Muslim Bro,dont be paranoid and divide ppl as muslims and non-muslims.


i later corrected him by replyin to his comment.
Let peace prevail!!!


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## faraaz (Aug 12, 2007)

U talkin about me??


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## Aberforth (Aug 13, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> My cousin was admitted to the Stanford Graduate School of Business...but he is now being denied a Visa because he is Muslim. No other reason...he got a 750 on his GMAT, he had a 3.9/4.0 GPA, he was the only Indian fresher to be admitted to the GSB in a LONG time. AND he was granted a visa once before already for his engineering course...he opted not to do that but go to Australia instead though. And now he applied for his VISA 3 months ago. It has still not come and they say that it probably wont.



Americans have a deep rooted xenophobia and bias, yes. A Russian friend of mine got admitted to Princeton and Berkeley but ended up with a visa rejection as he grand uncle was once a KGB agent in a NATO country and well, caused a few problems for Americans. US still likes to think in the Cold War scheme of thought, perhaps they miss that action and adrenaline rush. Anyway that friend of mine said some bitter truths to the embassy official once he knew he wasn't getting into US.



			
				vish786 said:
			
		

> except the indians living their.



Can't say the same about all of them. I have a couple of cousins there, college educated and all but believe in Ninja warrior and alien conspiracies.


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## summit.nayak (Aug 13, 2007)

> US still likes to think in the Cold War scheme of thought, perhaps they miss that action and adrenaline rush


They are never going to leave that kind of thinking


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## Help~Is~Here (Aug 21, 2007)

@Praka123, I couldn't say it in the last post I put up, because by the time I submitted it, the thread was closed. So, I will say this once again.

You keep saying about the 'barbarism' or 'warlords' in the middle east who do stuff like out your eyes and what not. I have to ask you here as to how many days or months have you stayed in the middle east and how many incidents have you witnessed?

You see, it's quite easy to get mislead here. There are a lot of crappy assumptions and stories which are completely and utterly propostorous about the middle east. Some fantasy boy might be exagerrating things. So, please stop assuming that the middle east doesn't give you any freedom or that it's a barbaric country. For the one's who really lived there will tell you how much security and freedom those countries offer than our own country does.

Please don't come back and tell me the story you read about in the paper about a indonesian maid killed by the houseowner. Please think about the countless atrocities and brainless acts of genocide and religous violance happening in our own country before getting out to comment or fix other countries.

Don't take is personally. Just a request from my side.


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## faraaz (Aug 21, 2007)

You don't behave cruelly because your from the Middle East or you are a Muslim or whatever...you do it because you are human. From the dawn of time, since men have been draggin women around by their hair and raping them to today, where a country can rape another country just by SAYING that they have weapons (which they probably wouldn't give a damn about using anyway)...its because we are human. And probably the sickest race on earth...


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## Faun (Aug 21, 2007)

terrorists hav no religion.


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## GNUrag (Aug 21, 2007)

T159 said:
			
		

> terrorists hav no religion.


Very well said.


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 21, 2007)

GNUrag said:
			
		

> Very well said.


Then this thread should be closed.


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## GNUrag (Aug 21, 2007)

gaurav_indian said:
			
		

> Then this thread should be closed.


Let it run.
Till there is no religious/racial/communal slur in a thread, it can run.


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## Yamaraj (Aug 21, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> You don't behave cruelly because your from the Middle East or you are a Muslim or whatever...you do it because you are human. From the dawn of time, since men have been draggin women around by their hair and raping them to today, where a country can rape another country just by SAYING that they have weapons (which they probably wouldn't give a damn about using anyway)...its because we are human. And probably the sickest race on earth...


And that is your excuse for letting terrorist be themselves and kill innocent people at their will? Are you also willing to accept that religions fabricated by "the sickest race (actually, species) on Earth" are also equally sick and evil?


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## praka123 (Aug 21, 2007)

the think is the "chosen" cant accept their "foundation" to be _weak_ and the courage to accept the realities and hence intolerance and violence are justified.dont teach how good west asia was/is.the people who learned this culture will have the potential to degrade humanity(which is there acceptable).i am not talking about Dubai(much liberal)  I know the bunch of idiots who thinks that India,Europe & America's shud be "Evangalized" by sword and bombs.  and hoping for the Utopia
One thing must be clear-there needs to be a separation btwn church and state(in middle east esp).I want to tell if at all it is wrong according to ur teaching,waiting for Arabization(in every possible ways and thinks they are superior!) and Islamic domination must be completely eliminated from the minds.mind my words-i know what fire is kept inside the Holy book.I know that any comments means public beating+ removing eyes,pen1s,hands,legs and more.I know how tolerant middle east and pakistan are.gr8 ways to say middle-east are "original".First be tolerant,then only one can have patriotism esp for our country India.


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## faraaz (Aug 22, 2007)

Yamaraj said:
			
		

> And that is your excuse for letting terrorist be themselves and kill innocent people at their will? Are you also willing to accept that religions fabricated by "the sickest race (actually, species) on Earth" are also equally sick and evil?



You call it excuse, I call it reason...same sh!t...

And you say "for letting terrorists be themselves and kill innocent people at their will" as though I'm out there handing out the AK-47s and giving them a pat on the back to send them on their way...

As for your second line..HELL YES, NOTHING good has EVER come from religion!

In an ideal scenario, religion would be good because then everyone would be nice to each other blah blah blah. But then again, this isn't an ideal scenario, is it??

So yeah, in principle, I'd say religion is a good thing...but practically speaking, I say b4lls to religion...


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## Yamaraj (Aug 22, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> And you say "for letting terrorists be themselves and kill innocent people at their will" as though I'm out there handing out the AK-47s and giving them a pat on the back to send them on their way...


Believe me there are many dreaming of doing the same.



			
				faraaz said:
			
		

> As for your second line..HELL YES, NOTHING good has EVER come from religion!
> 
> In an ideal scenario, religion would be good because then everyone would be nice to each other blah blah blah. But then again, this isn't an ideal scenario, is it??
> 
> So yeah, in principle, I'd say religion is a good thing...but practically speaking, I say b4lls to religion...


I can only agree with you here. Until and unless we learn not to hate each other for our differences, there is nothing good coming out of anything, let alone religions.


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## faraaz (Aug 22, 2007)

Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Believe me there are many dreaming of doing the same.



Doesn't mean I'm one of 'em. Dude, I just want to KICK the ass of every stupid Muslim who supports these f'king terrorists...because of people like them I was scared to go a day unshaved while I was living in Sydney..

And there was this one time I had gone to a Mosque for Eid and was taking a train back to my Uni while wearing a Kurta...stupid yobos ruin our image.


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## Yamaraj (Aug 22, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> Doesn't mean I'm one of 'em. Dude, I just want to KICK the ass of every stupid Muslim who supports these f'king terrorists...because of people like them I was scared to go a day unshaved while I was living in Sydney..
> 
> And there was this one time I had gone to a Mosque for Eid and was taking a train back to my Uni while wearing a Kurta...stupid yobos ruin our image.


It is really sad that Islam, which was once widely appreciated for its innovations in science, art, music and culture, has been reduced to a subset of arrogance and terror.

If only we could eliminate all religions and live peacefully together like those animals in the wild. I wonder if all civilization stands for is hatred and hedonism!


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## faraaz (Aug 23, 2007)

@Yamaraj: What you have said is flat out not true. Just that the media wants you to concentrate on the subset of arrogance and terror. And if what you have said of Islam is true, then the same can be said of any religion out there which has negative publicity in its history. So apart from Mormonism or Buddhism or something, I guess all religions are just as bad.


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## shantanu (Aug 23, 2007)

as i said earlier in my posts, Every religion has flaws and bugs ( cant help computerized lang.) , nothing is perfect and as said, a single Rotten apple gives a bad smell in a group of them.. so it is a bad and flase conception that any religion is bad.. its not, its the followers that make it good or bad.. there are hindu and sikh terrorists (never heard of christians) well they may be in western countries..  i have many muslim friends who are much better then my hindu friends..

in my opinion.. the person matters much above par then his religion.. i rate a person as a individual on his/her own doings and not what his religion followers do.. i maybe a terriorist that doesnt make my relatives, my religion a terror supporting religion..


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## Yamaraj (Aug 23, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> Just that the media wants you to concentrate on the subset of arrogance and terror.


Or as Edmund Burke once said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Maybe the good men aren't doing enough. Often do we hear of fatwas and violent rallies against people, nations, policies, religions and whatnot. When was the last time you heard of a procession in favor of something good? Why is that hatred unites people, with blindness surpassing even that of love?

I don't want to get into the details, but then you're educated and hopefully above the fundamentalism that makes people lose their sanity.


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## Help~Is~Here (Aug 23, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> mind my words-i know what fire is kept inside the Holy book.I know that any comments means public beating+ removing eyes,pen1s,hands,legs and more.I know how tolerant middle east and pakistan are.gr8 ways to say middle-east are "original".First be tolerant,then only one can have patriotism esp for our country India.


 
There you go again, middle east, you seriously live of stories and fables don't you? And the your assumptions about removing pen1s or whatever is not said or asked to do in the holy Quran which you keep referring to as the Book. It's barbaric people who unfortunately not only exist in pakistan or middle east but also in your own back yard who kill their new born babies just because it was a girl and who exploit woman and use them to the worst extent possible. Oh no praka, you got it wrong, it's not from the holy Quran, it's from culture that you and me appreciate so much of and call as Society!! And don't forget that you and me are a part of it as well!! Just by complaining about something happening in your own society or just becuase you didn't do it doesn't make anyone any better. It is our social and moral responsibility to stop everything we think is wrong rather than being morons ourselves and think why should I interfere in what he is doing.

For all those of you who keep complaining and blabbing and showing off that you are good or any better than a terrorist. Get up from where you are sitting and be of some use to the world and stop bad wherever you see, if you do, then there won't be half of the terrorism that you see today! So, shut your gums and stop cribbing and make a change for yourself and stop ignoring where you see wrong. YOU and ME are the biggest terrorist due to our negligence and ignorance!! <-- Not directed at anyone personally


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 23, 2007)

^^ Dude you are wasting your time.Some people dont understand.Let them live in their cloud cuckoo land.


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## apacheman (Aug 23, 2007)

Ignorance is the root of all evils.
Had every one followed at least his own religion, all would have come to one conclusion.
has anyone of you even tried to read and understand your respective religious scriptures? is there any muslim out here who has read and understood the whole Quran at least once in his lifetime? Duz he even know what is in it? do they know the do's n dont's in it?
Has any hindu here ever read the Vedas, be it the Rigved, Yajurved, Samaved etc. duz he even know that the Vedas prohibit mankind from idol worship? do we know that the Vedas say that god has no image, no form, no gender..same as what the Quran says.
do they know hat Prophet Mohammad is mentioned in various hindu scriptures? 
Duz any christian know his bible? duz he know that the bible prohibits pork? well..the list goes on..
its way too simple, To each his own.
Dont just try pulling each other's leg or make anyone feel inferior by any way. dont ridicule each other's opinion. let all hav their say, but only if they know what they speak.
a lot has been said by everyone, its time we act upon it.
let brotherhood prevail!


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## mediator (Aug 23, 2007)

apacheman said:
			
		

> do they know hat Prophet Mohammad is mentioned in various hindu scriptures?


 I wasn't really interested in this fight, but dear @apacheman I humbly request u to please quote where is it mentioned about mohammed in hindu scripture and since u seem so confident about all this, do tell which Hindu scripture. Reading the works of some illiterates like Zakir Nair and other show pieces or their blind believers?.....who misterm mohmegda as mohmmed etc then say Mohammed is mentioned in Hindu scriptures?

Do u even know what 'mohmegda' means? Have ur time, take an year, return and then tell what u learnt about the term! AS of Zakir Nair and pieces like MAx muller they even say "Indra called women as inferior to man"! First the sloka which they tell is not there in rigveda and secondly they r known for their misquotations and mistranslations which it seems is their deliberate hobby 'to prove' that 'same' thing exists in Hindu scriptures which exists in ISLAM as QURAN has stated "women to be inferior to man" and hadiths supporting the circumcision of private organs!! And then we have illiterates like u, who don't even read 'sources' and scriptures only posts from orkut communities and blogs, and then give us deadly performances of their ignorance!!




> Has any hindu here ever read the Vedas, be it the Rigved, Yajurved, Samaved etc. duz he even know that the Vedas prohibit mankind from idol worship? do we know that the Vedas say that god has no image, no form, no gender..And if same as what the Quran says.


 Please link the quote for this too. And if this is what Quran says too and god has no gender, then why do they call "ALLAH" as "he", why not "it"? Also tell if God is shapeless etc, then y do we need to create temples, mosques, churches, etc? Likewise they r unnecessary too!! Please don't troll around if u don't understand the meaning of the title of the thread!


So instead of reading blogs etc, do some reading on the original sanskrit slokas and try to understand the meaning of them urself.

BTW, if by any chance allah and mohmmad were mentioned in hindu scriptures (which are all sanskrit and mohammed etc not being a sanskrit word), then ISLAM must have been a part of HINDUISM. Wat say? Do u even know Akbar tried to write allopanishad meaning "Allah + upanishad" to prove the presence of ISLAM in HINDUISM? TRagically, he failed! Do some research on the same!


U talked like u read all the 'holy books'. Troll when u really have read all of em in their original language. 
Do practise what u preach! => "Ignorance is the root of all evils."

No where it is written to embrace something called "Hinduism" in hindu scriptures and AFAIK "Buddhism" too in their scriptures unlike some other religions. They dont even say that vedas and GITA come uder HINDUISM. It is this 'embrace' call that makes its followers to do what is written. 

VEdas deal with life and how it shud be lived! It sets no laws or boundaries that u have to obey or u have to face something deadly from the religious lords. Its common for people like ZAKIR NAIR and perhaps like u to misinterpret what scriptures n others say, so by laws I don't mean laws dealing with crime!! Do some reading on Vedas first and do find out why they (Vedas, Yoga etc ) are being embraced by west and people from almost all parts of the world now even when it baffles the scientists!! They first disregarded accupuncture/accupressure, then started following it, they commented on homeopathy and then complemented on it, they disregarded Yoga and veda too and now see whats happening!!

I really don't want to turn this thread into Religion 1 Vs Religion 2 , which I guess is ur deliberate approach to divert this thread into one! So instead of spreading ignorance, how about getting some enlightenment? Circumcision is bad, I hope u know that!!


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## Help~Is~Here (Aug 23, 2007)

^^ Circumcision is bad? Please explain your point with any scientific reason why it's bad.


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## mediator (Aug 23, 2007)

<thread deviated to circumcision?>

Neways I wud like to give u a 'detailed' explanation, but first tell me why did the nature give u ur natural skin on ur private part?


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## Help~Is~Here (Aug 23, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> <thread deviated to circumcision?>
> 
> Neways I wud like to give u a 'detailed' explanation, but first tell me why did the nature give u ur natural skin on ur private part?


 
Why does nature give you natural hair and you go to the saloon and shorten it every once in a while?
Why does nature make you sweat and stink and you have to take bath everyday?
Why does nature give the 'women' a hymen and why does it have to be broken for reproduction?

You got any more natural questions man? Your logic suc**, so you don't need to waste your time trying to give a 'detailed' explanation.

If you think circumsition is done by only muslims, then you are not realizing that only a very minor part of the entire world population is not circumcized! Wake up from your darkened natural thoughts unless you don't want to have your stuff looong...  

Forgive my language if it is vulgar, but the above statement was necessary. BTW, I don't want to take this topic offcourse anymore. You are just one of those who starts defending yourself and talk about religion in this mess, just refer to my last few posts and people who have posted after that! Don't waste your time anymore trying to distinguish yourself from a terrorist!!


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## Yamaraj (Aug 23, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Why does nature give you natural hair and you go to the saloon and shorten it every once in a while?
> Why does nature make you sweat and stink and you have to take bath everyday?
> Why does nature give the 'women' a hymen and why does it have to be broken for reproduction?


Pathetic attempt at logic!
Circumcision is a cult ritual, devised as an offering to god(s). There is nothing "religious" or "divine" about the procedure, apart from it being a cruel act against infants. Grow up!



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> If you think circumsition is done by only Muslims, then you are not realizing that only a very minor part of the entire world population is not circumcized!


Circumcision is a semitic trait - common among Jews, Muslims and some Christians. And according to a WHO report, only 30% of the male population worldwide is circumcised. AFAIK, 70% is not "very minor" part of the pie.



			
				Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Don't waste your time anymore trying to distinguish yourself from a terrorist!!


I will call myself a terrorist when I get the chance to behead an idiot.


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## vish786 (Aug 23, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Why does nature give you natural hair and you go to the saloon and shorten it every once in a while?
> Why does nature make you sweat and stink and you have to take bath everyday?
> Why does nature give the 'women' a hymen and why does it have to be broken for reproduction?



no offense dude, but why dont u speak something sensible.


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## mediator (Aug 23, 2007)

@H_I_H : Thats why I asked u a general question coz I wanted to see ur reasoning! But unfortunately u seem to follow stereotypically what is preached by 'those' typical illiterates. Ur reasonings are absurd!!




> Why does nature give you natural hair and you go to the saloon and shorten it every once in a while?
> Why does nature make you sweat and stink and you have to take bath everyday?
> Why does nature give the 'women' a hymen and why does it have to be broken for reproduction?


 1. There is a vast difference between dead cells and living cells!! Next don't say similar things about nails tooo! Ur logic is of those who don't know what science and logic is!!
2. That is waste!! Another absurd reasoning!
3. And who exactly taught u to reason like this? The thing u r talking about is for feeding a baby when he cannot be fed normally. Thats why tubes r given to a person n glucose is fed when he cannot eat normally. Do u want mother and child be connected like this forever? Do u even know how to reason properly?

Next, how does circumcision help? Is it a waste? Is that skin made up of dead cells? Does that cause any disease? If so, y haven't I acquired any disease yet?


Well thats was for general!! Guess u failed miserably in reasoning!! Did a simple question took that much toll on ur brains, if any, that u forgot how to reason sensibly from "your" independent thinking and outlook?? Do u even know how to have an independent thinking that u r following the typical reasoning given by illiterates following those religious lords so blindly?

Neways guess u have never been told the real stuff by ur religious lord and how can they when they r illiterate themselves? NOW read with ur eyes wide open.......





			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> The two main groups requiring circumcision for religious reasons are *Jews and Muslims*.
> 
> There are *NO medical benefits from circumcision, and a foreskin is not smelly, does not cause disease, and doesn't lead to cancer. Normal hygiene is required - pull back the foreskin when showering and wash the head of the penis. Make sure you dry under the foreskin too.*
> 
> ...



Next....




			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> Some religions require it but it really is not necessary. *The foreskin is there to protect the head of the penis. Just keep it clean like you would other parts of your body and everything will be ok. Humans are the other animals on the earth that cut off the foreskin of babies. If it wasn't meant to be there, then why were we born with it???*
> Circumcision is a religious symbol in the Jewish faith. I don't believe it is in other religions. I think people do it for cosmetic reasons today and because they think it's cleaner. My own son is not circumsized, and it hasn't been a problem. He doesn't have problems with odor or cleanliness. It's actually not neccesary at all, and in fact, there is more sexual enjoyment if they are not circumsized. I personally don't believe in it, and find it a cruel practice.
> It is better if you get is done it is more sanitary and helps you keep better hygiene!!
> its not needed but i does smell better and yes it is a religious symbol ecspecially with jewish people


 *www.health-mediainfo.net/Men-Health/162042.htm
Less sensation, less pleasure? 





			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> *Reasons for not circumcising*
> 
> *Until recently the structure and function of the prepuce have not been known.* Now its important function as a major source of erogenous sensation on the penis has been recognised. Not only is the circumcised man deprived of this sensation, but also his glans becomes thickened and insensitive. The reader may be puzzled why this was not known before. Males are nearly always circumcised in childhood, and so they pass through all their sexually active years with a circumcised penis and therefore have no concept of what normal feeling is. Furthermore, men do not generally discuss their erotic experiences in great detail with one another, assuming that all share the same experiences.
> 
> ...


 Read the whole thing n not just the bolded part!
*www.cirp.org/library/general/warren2/ (Read the whole thing)





			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> *The foreskin has twelve known functions.*
> They are:
> 
> 1. to cover and bond with the synechia so as to permit the development of the mucosal surface of the glans and inner foreskin.
> ...


 It has so many functions and u cut it? 
*www.cirp.org/pages/anat/ (Read the whole thing)




			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> *In the past,* circumcision has been suggested as a way to prevent penile cancer. This suggestion was based on studies that reported much lower penile cancer rates among circumcised men than among uncircumcised men. However, most researchers now believe *those studies were flawed because they failed to consider other factors that are now known to affect penile cancer risk.*
> 
> *For example,* some recent studies suggest that circumcised men tend to have certain other lifestyle factors associated with lower penile cancer risk: they are less likely to have many sexual partners, less likely to smoke, and more likely to have better personal hygiene habits. Most public health researchers believe that the penile cancer risk among uncircumcised men without known risk factors living in the United States is extremely low. The current consensus of most experts is that circumcision should not be recommended as a prevention strategy for penile cancer.
> 
> ...


 *forums.govteen.com/showpost.php?p=3069995&postcount=2
This is really something. Don't cry that I have pointed to a forum thread, coz in that thread u have 1000s of links to standard sites. So basically in this I have pointed to a standard repository!! 





			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> Australia largely abandoned medically unnecessary circumcision in the 1980s, and did so with very little fuss, but in the late 1990s the issue suddenly became controversial. The main reason for this are the efforts of a few die-hard circumcision enthusiasts influenced by propaganda from the USA and other cultures where routine male circumcision is the rule. *They make strident, aggressive and implausible claims for the protective effect of circumcision against a number of diseases which have defied normal control strategies, such as HIV-AIDS, and as a means of preventing trivial penis problems in infancy. Circumcision advocates attempt to exploit public fears of AIDS and cancer by demanding universal circumcision of male infants as a public health measure. They offer the feeble and misleading analogy that amputation is just like immunisation, and thus a harmless and effective medical intervention which should be made compulsory.*


 Talks of people like u?
*www.circinfo.org/


So @Help_is_here, I guess u shud change ur UID to @In_Need_of_Help. Do read the link in that forum thread also. Neways the other links shud be more than enough for an illiterate like u!! Njoy!!


The only thing uncircumsized males get is smelly part and that too if NOT washed for long!! Well, I hope regular baths wasn't an excuse for ur circumcision!! Learn to read and learn to reason properly!!




In the past 'they' believed that circumcision was good and thats why circmusized! WTH, they never banned eating non-vegs, killing goats as it increases the risk of getting diseases tooo!!



			
				enlightenment said:
			
		

> Ill effects of meat
> *higher levels of cholesterol in their blood, and higher rates of coronary heart disease
> *increase in blood pressure was seen also when meat was included in the vegetarian diet. .
> * Meat can produce serious illness like cysticercosis, hydatid cyst and trichinosis.
> ...


 *www.beveggie.com/doctor.html


@Help_is_here_needs_Help : Understand?


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## Faun (Aug 23, 2007)

Offtopic:


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> @H_I_H :
> 3. And who exactly taught u to reason like this? The thing u r talking about is for feeding a baby when he cannot be fed normally. Thats why tubes r given to a person n glucose is fed when he cannot eat normally. Do u want mother and child be connected like this forever? Do u even know how to reason properly?


was that ur reasoning for hymen ?

I guess its a check for virginity but no more true now


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## Help~Is~Here (Aug 24, 2007)

@ mediator and @yamraj, like many other people warned me on this forum regarding you guys, I guess there is no more point writing something against your absolute absurd and weird reasoning. If you want to reason, you can reason with whatever bull**** you want. Even 'gays' can reason as to why they think it's perfectly normal!! Hell, even 'transexuals' who try to change their gender have their own reasoning!! So, there is no point bringing out your reasoning with such absurd explanations! Keep it for your own fantasies.

Respecting other people's thoughts about you 2, I am not going to waste my time trying to prove to you anything when it's all very clear in front of you! Keep reasoning!!


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## Yamaraj (Aug 24, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> @ mediator and @yamraj, like many other people warned me on this forum regarding you guys, I guess there is no more point writing something against your absolute absurd and weird reasoning.
> 
> ...
> 
> Respecting other people's thoughts about you 2, I am not going to waste my time trying to prove to you anything when it's all very clear in front of you! Keep reasoning!!


Strange that some alien entities also advised me not to get into debates with idiots. Is that a coincidence?


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## faraaz (Aug 24, 2007)

You know...some people on these forums have WAY too much time on their hands...


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## gaurav_indian (Aug 24, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> You know...some people on these forums have WAY too much time on their hands...


I know who they are


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## apacheman (Aug 24, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> I wasn't really interested in this fight, but dear @apacheman I humbly request u to please quote where is it mentioned about mohammed in hindu scripture and since u seem so confident about all this, do tell which Hindu scripture.
> Please link the quote for this too. And if this is what Quran says too and god has no gender, then why do they call "ALLAH" as "he", why not "it"? Also tell if God is shapeless etc, then y do we need to create temples, mosques, churches, etc? Likewise they r unnecessary too!!



Hi mediator, was nice to read ur post. Interaction duz no harm. i am no saint, even i may be ignorant. anyway, cuming to the topic. The first part is about *Prophet Muhammad in Hindu Scriptures* and the second one on _*Concept of God in Hinduism.*_

*I) Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in Bhavishya Purana *

1. According to Bhavishya Purana in the _Prati Sarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 5 to 8._

"A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins) offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, "I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents."

The Prophecy clearly states:

(i) The name of the Prophet as Mohammad.

(ii) He will belong to Arabia. The Sanskrit word Marusthal means a sandy track of land or a desert.

(iii) Special mention is made of the companions of the Prophet, i.e. the Sahabas. No other Prophet had as many companions as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

(iv) He is referred as the pride of mankind (Parbatis nath). The Glorious Qur’an reconfirms this

"And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character"

_[Al-Qur'an 68:4]_

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah, a beautiful pattern (of conduct)".

_[Al-Qur'an 33:21]_

(v) He will kill the devil, i.e. abolish idol worship and all sorts of vices.

(vi) The Prophet will be given protection against his enemy.

Some people may argue that Raja Bhoj mentioned in the prophecy lived in the 11th century C.E. 500 years after the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and was the descendant in the 10th generation of Raja Shalivahan. These people fail to realise that there was not only one Raja of the name Bhoj. The Egyptian Monarchs were called as Pharaoh and the Roman Kings were known as Caesar, similarly the Indian Rajas were given the title of Bhoj. There were several Raj Bhoj who came before the one in 11th Century C.E.

The Prophet did not physically take a bath in the Panchgavya and the water of Ganges. Since the water of Ganges is considered holy, taking bath in the Ganges is an idiom, which means washing away sins or immunity from all sorts of sins. Here the prophecy implies that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sinless, i.e. Maasoom.

2. According to Bhavishya Purana in the _Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27_ Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:

"The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance, the well-known Muhammad (pbuh), is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. O Raja, You need not go to the land of the foolish Pishachas, you will be purified through my kindness even where you are. At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

The Prophecy states that:

(i) The evil doers have corrupted the Arab land.

(ii) Arya Dharma is not found in that land.

(iii) The Indian Raja need not go the Arab land since his purification will take place in India after the musalmaan will arrive in India.

(iv) The coming Prophet will attest the truth of the Aryan faith, i.e. Monotheism and will reform the misguided people.

(v) The Prophet’s followers will be circumcised. They will be without a tail on the head and bear a beard and will create a great revolution.

(vi) They will announce the Aadhaan, i.e. ‘the Muslim call for prayer’.

(vii) He will only eat lawful things and animals but will not eat pork. The Qur’an confirms this in no less than 4 different places:

_In Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verse 173

In Surah Al-Maidah chapter 5 verse 3

In Surah Al-Anam chapter 6 verse 145

In Surah Al-Nahl chapter 16 verse 115_

"Forbidden to you for food are dead meat, blood, flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah".

(viii) They will not purify with grass like the Hindus but by means of sword they will fight their irreligious people.

(ix) They will be called musalmaan.

(x) They will be a meat-eating nation.

The eating of herbivorous animals is confirmed by the Qur’an in _Surah Maidah, chapter 5 verse 1 and in Surah Muminun chapter 23 verse 21
_
3. According to Bhavishya Purana, _Parv - III Khand 1 Adhay 3 Shloka 21-23:_

"Corruption and persecution are found in seven sacred cities of Kashi, etc. India is inhabited by Rakshas, Shabor, Bhil and other foolish people. In the land of Malechhas, the followers of the Malechha dharma (Islam) are wise and brave people. All good qualities are found in Musalmaans and all sorts of vices have accumulated in the land of the Aryas. Islam will rule in India and its islands. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of thy lord".

The Qur’an confirms this in _Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 33 and in Surah Al Saff chapter 61 verse 9:_

"It is He who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it)".

A similar message is given in Surah Fatah chapter 48 verses 28 ending with, "and enough is Allah as a witness".

*II Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Prophesised in Atharvaveda*

1. In the 20th book of Atharvaveda Hymn 127 Some Suktas (chapters) are known as Kuntap Sukta. Kuntap means the consumer of misery and troubles. Thus meaning the message of peace and safety and if translated in Arabic means Islam.

Kuntap also means hidden glands in the abdomen. These mantras are called so probably because their true meaning was hidden and was to be revealed in future. Its hidden meaning is also connected with the navel or the middle point of this earth. Makkah is called the Ummul Qur’a the mother of the towns or the naval of the earth. In many revealed books it was the first house of Divine worship where God Almighty gave spiritual nourishment to the world. The Qur’an says in

_Surah Ali-Imran chapter 3, verse 96_:

"The first house (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakkah (Makkah) full of blessings and of guidance and for all kinds of beings".

Thus Kuntap stands for Makkah or Bakkah.

Several people have translated these Kuntap Suktas like M. Bloomfield, Prof. Ralph Griffith, Pandit Rajaram, Pandit Khem Karan, etc.

The main points mentioned in the Kuntap Suktas i.e. in _Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 127 verses 1-13 are:
_
_Mantra 1_

He is Narashansah or the praised one (Muhammad). He is Kaurama: the prince of peace or the emigrant, who is safe, even amongst a host of 60,090 enemies.

_b) Mantra 2_

He is a camel-riding Rishi, whose chariot touches the heaven.

_c) Mantra 3_

He is Mamah Rishi who is given a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets (necklaces), three hundred good steeds and ten thousand cows.

_d) Mantra 4_

Vachyesv rebh. ‘Oh! ye who glorifies’.

(i) The Sanskrit word Narashansah means ‘the praised one’, which is the literal translation of the Arabic word Muhammad (pbuh).

The Sanskrit word Kaurama means ‘one who spreads and promotes peace’. The holy Prophet was the ‘Prince of Peace’ and he preached equality of human kind and universal brotherhood. Kaurama also means an emigrant. The Prophet migrated from Makkah to Madinah and was thus also an Emigrant.

(ii) He will be protected from 60,090 enemies, which was the population of Makkah. The Prophet would ride a camel. This clearly indicates that it cannot be an Indian Rishi, since it is forbidden for a Brahman to ride a camel according to the Sacred Books of the East, volume 25, Laws of Manu pg. 472. According to _Manu Smirti chapter 11 verse 202_, "A Brahman is prohibited from riding a camel or an ass and to bathe naked. He should purify himself by suppressing his breath".

(iii) (a) This mantra gave the Rishi's name as Mamah. No rishi in India or another Prophet had this name Mamah which is derived from Mah which means to esteem highly, or to revere, to exalt, etc. Some Sanskrit books give the Prophet’s name as ‘Mohammad’, but this word according to Sanskrit grammar can also be used in the bad sense. It is incorrect to apply grammar to an Arabic word. Actually shas the same meaning and somewhat similar pronunciation as the word Muhammad (pbuh).

(b) He is given 100 gold coins, which refers to the believers and the earlier companions of the Prophet during his turbulent Makkan life. Later on due to persecution they migrated from Makkah to Abysinia. Later when Prophet migrated to Madinah all of them joined him in Madinah.

(c) The 10 chaplets or necklaces were the 10 best companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) known as Ashra-Mubbashshira (10 bestowed with good news). These were foretold in this world of their salvation in the hereafter i.e. they were given the good news of entering paradise by the Prophet’s own lips and after naming each one he said "in Paradise". They were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Talha, Zubair, Abdur Rahman Ibn Auf, Saad bin Abi Waqqas, Saad bin Zaid and Abu Ubaidah (May Allah be well-pleased with all of them).

(d) The Sanskrit word Go is derived from Gaw which means ‘to go to war’. A cow is also called Go and is a symbol of war as well as peace. The 10,000 cows refer to the 10,000 companions who accompanied the Prophet (pbuh) when he entered Makkah during Fateh Makkah which was a unique victory in the history of mankind in which there was no blood shed. The 10,000 companions were pious and compassionate like cows and were at the same time strong and fierce and are described in the Holy Quran in Surah Fatah:

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other."

_[Al-Qur'an 48:29]
_
(iv) This mantra calls the Prophet as Rebh which means one who praises, which when translated into Arabic is Ahmed, which is another name for the Holy Prophet (pbuh).

2. Battle of the Allies described in the Vedas.

It is mentioned in _Atharvaveda Book XX Hymn 21 verse 6_, "Lord of the truthful! These liberators drink these feats of bravery and the inspiring songs gladdened thee in the field of battle. When thou renders vanquished without fight the ten thousand opponents of the praying one, the adoring one."

(i) This Prophecy of the Veda describes the well-known battle of Ahzab or the battle of the Allies during the time of Prophet Muhammed. The Prophet was victorious without an actual conflict which is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Ahzab:

"When the believers saw the confederate forces they said, "This is what Allah and His Messenger had promised us and Allah and His Messenger told us what was true." And it only added to their faith and their zeal in obedience."

_[Al-Qur'an 33:22]_

(ii) The Sanskrit word karo in the Mantra means the ‘praying one’ which when translated 

into Arabic means ‘Ahmed’, the second name of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

iii) The 10,000 opponents mentioned in the Mantra were the enemies of the Prophet and the Muslims were only 3000 in number.

iv) The last words of the Mantra aprati ni bashayah means the defeat was given to the enemies without an actual fight.

3. The enemies’ defeat in the conquest of Makkah is mentioned in _Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 21 verse no 9:_

"You have O Indra, overthrown 20 kings and 60,099 men with an outstripping Chariot wheel who came to fight the praised one or far famed (Muhammad) orphan."

i) The population of Makkah at the time of Prophet’s advent was nearly 60,000.

ii) There were several clans in Makkah each having its own chief. Totally there were about 20 chiefs to rule the population of Makkah.

iii) An Abandhu meaning a helpless man who was far-famed and ‘praised one’. Muhammad (pbuh) overcame his enemies with the help of God.

*III Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the Rigveda*

A similar prophecy is also found in _Rigveda Book I, Hymn 53 verse 9:_

The Sanskrit word used is Sushrama, which means praiseworthy or well praised which in Arabic means Muhammad (pbuh).

*IV Muhummad (pbuh) is also prophesised in the Samveda*

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is also prophesised in the Samveda Book II Hymn 6 verse 8:

"Ahmed acquired from his Lord the knowledge of eternal law. I received light from him just as from the sun." The Prophecy confirms:

i) The name of the Prophet as Ahmed since Ahmed is an Arabic name. Many translators misunderstood it to be Ahm at hi and translated the mantra as "I alone have acquired the real wisdom of my father".

ii) Prophet was given eternal law, i.e. the Shariah.

iii) The Rishi was enlightened by the Shariah of Prophet Muhammad. The Qur’an says in Surah Saba chapter 34 verse 28

"We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not."

_[Al-Qur'an 34:28]_

and regarding your second doubt...the Concept of God in Hinduism.

*1. Common Concept of God in Hinduism:*

Hinduism is commonly perceived as a polytheistic religion. Indeed, most Hindus would attest to this, by professing belief in multiple Gods. While some Hindus believe in the existence of three gods, some believe in thousands of gods, and some others in thirty three crore i.e. 330 million Gods. However, learned Hindus, who are well versed in their scriptures, insist that a Hindu should believe in and worship only one God.

The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim perception of God is the common Hindus’ belief in the philosophy of Pantheism. Pantheism considers everything, living and non-living, to be Divine and Sacred. The common Hindu, therefore, considers everything as God. He considers the trees as God, the sun as God, the moon as God, the monkey as God, the snake as God and even human beings as manifestations of God!

Islam, on the contrary, exhorts man to consider himself and his surroundings as examples of Divine Creation rather than as divinity itself. Muslims therefore believe that everything is God’s i.e. the word ‘God’ with an apostrophe ‘s’. In other words the Muslims believe that everything belongs to God. The trees belong to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, the monkey belongs to God, the snake belongs to God, the human beings belong to God and everything in this universe belongs to God.

Thus the major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim beliefs is the difference of the apostrophe ‘s’. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God’s.


*2. Concept of God according to Hindu Scriptures:*

We can gain a better understanding of the concept of God in Hinduism by analysing Hindu scriptures. 

*BHAGAVAD GITA
*
The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita. 

Consider the following verse from the Gita:

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."
_[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]_

The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.


*UPANISHADS:*

The Upanishads are considered sacred scriptures by the Hindus. 

The following verses from the Upanishads refer to the Concept of God:

"Ekam evadvitiyam"
"He is One only without a second."
_[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1_

"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."
"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
_ [Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2_

"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him."
_[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3_

The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:

"Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam."

"His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye."
_[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4_

1[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 447 and 448]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 1 ‘The Upanishads part I’ page 93]

2[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page 263.]

3[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 736 & 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]

4[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]





*THE VEDAS*
Vedas are considered the most sacred of all the Hindu scriptures. There are four principal Vedas: Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda.

*Yajurveda*
The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God: 


"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
_[Yajurveda 32:3]5_ 

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure." 
_[Yajurveda 40:8]6_

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
_[Yajurveda 40:9]7 _

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

The Yajurveda contains the following prayer: 
"Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander."
_[Yajurveda 40:16]8 _

5[Yajurveda by Devi Chand M.A. page 377]

6[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

7[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

8[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Griffith page 541]


*Atharvaveda*
The Atharvaveda praises God in Book 20, hymn 58 and verse 3:
"Dev maha osi"
"God is verily great"
_[Atharvaveda 20:58:3]9  
_

*Rigveda*

The oldest of all the vedas is Rigveda. It is also the one considered most sacred by the Hindus. The Rigveda states in Book 1, hymn 164 and verse 46:
"Sages (learned Priests) call one God by many names."
_[Rigveda 1:164:46]_

The Rigveda gives several different attributes to Almighty God. Many of these are mentioned in Rigveda Book 2 hymn 1.

Among the various attributes of God, one of the beautiful attributes mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3, is Brahma. Brahma means ‘The Creator’. Translated into Arabic it means Khaaliq. Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Khaaliq or ‘Creator’ or Brahma. However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it.

Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda: 

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
_ [Yajurveda 32:3]_

Another beautiful attribute of God mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3 is Vishnu. Vishnu means ‘The Sustainer’. Translated into Arabic it means Rabb. Again, Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Rabb or 'Sustainer' or Vishnu. But the popular image of

9[Atharveda Samhita vol 2 William Dwight Whitney page 910]




Vishnu among Hindus, is that of a God who has four arms, with one of the right arms holding the Chakra, i.e. a discus and one of the left arms holding a ‘conch shell’, or riding a bird or reclining on a snake couch. Muslims can never accept any image of God. As mentioned earlier this also goes against _Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter 4 verse 19.
_
"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him"

The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being: 

"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone." 
_[Rigveda 8:1:1]10 _

"Devasya samituk parishtutih"
"Verily, great is the glory of the Divine Creator."
_[Rigveda 5:1:81]11_


*Brahma Sutra of Hinduism:*

The Brahma Sutra of Hinduism is:

"Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan"

"There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit."

Thus only a dispassionate study of the Hindu scriptures can help one understand the concept of God in Hinduism.

0[Rigveda Samhita vol. 9, pages 2810 and 2811 by Swami Satya Prakash Sarasvati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]

11[Rigveda Samhita vol. 6, pages 1802 and 1803 by Swami Satya Prakash Saraswati and Satyakam Vidyalankar]



as from the sun." The Prophecy confirms:

The name of the Prophet as Ahmed since Ahmed is an Arabic name. Many translators misunderstood it to be ‘Ahm at hi’ and translated the mantra as "I alone have acquired the real wisdom of my father".

Prophet was given eternal law, i.e. the Shariah.

The Rishi was enlightened by the Shariah of Prophet Muhammad. The Qur’an says in _Surah Saba Chapter 34 verse 28 (34:28):
_


"We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not."

well,that was my humble effort on ur request. Take care


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## Yamaraj (Aug 24, 2007)

apacheman said:
			
		

> well,that was my humble effort on ur request. Take care


Ok, I'm convinced! When do I get to behead someone?



			
				gaurav_indian said:
			
		

> I know who they are


I know at least one who likes sticking his tongue to places where the Sun never shines.


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## infra_red_dude (Aug 24, 2007)

wudn't like to post on this topic as it going offtrack but jus to clear things up:

@apacheman
the first part is completely false. i dunno what is ur source but jus out of curiosity i ventured into the scriptures and tried to relate whatever's posted. i regret to inform you that each point indicated is not even 0.000000000000001% true. i'd really like to kno the source of the info.. am very very curious to know who has so beautifully twisted the facts 

cheers and peace.....

ps: lets refrain from discussing about religion. it will only create a wide void between us. to me, my religion and to you ur religion. let peace prevail


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## praka123 (Aug 24, 2007)

I know how it is to be brought up in a strict religious family of some particular religion-every thing is seen only on religious way(just the above veda example to prove islam)-even remembers the silly kids of "deeni"= pro-pakistan zindabad on cricket to sit all muslim students together in a row.  just to show how even young minds are evangelized!.just imagine how hardcore he can become when he is grown up.
the venom is so deeply spread that everything is seen as a part of their pro-religious reason.all religious books are sadly not "Holy" .
One who is into deep religious "awakening" must become a terrorist-proof Bin Laden,Dehli Imam,Ma-adani etc.I know zillion reasons are there for justification.I saw in CNN-those pakistanis and arabs living in England and making violence and Placards carrying "Europe and America belongs to Islam" gr8.just think above religion.can any from super religion can do it?-tolerance for them is Jizyah and dhimmi-research for that words.
few are over the religion though(through education,enlightenement).they are called Human beings with a mind.


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## karnivore (Aug 24, 2007)

The garbage is probably from this dustbin


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## mediator (Aug 24, 2007)

@Apacheman : Do u really think that this is the first time I'm reading the nuisances as such? I told u to post the 'original' sanskrit slokas and here u r posting english mistranslations. Does the word 'original' means anything to u?

Let me show u some light!



> "*A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions.* His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins) offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, "I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents."


 Firstly the word malecha isn't pronounced as such! It is 'mlecha' and it means the one who does not follow 'vedic' practices!! Muhammed and all the ISLAMic people on the other hand  do not follow vedic practises, may some noble guys do privately or else they might be labelled as UnIslamic by their illiterate religious lords!! 

Secondly I told u to read what word it is written! So, no its not mohammed, its "mohmegda" i.e moh+magda means the illusioned one who gets mixed with all the materialistic pleasures in the world!

May be the word mohammed is derived from mohmegda. What say? As it is well known that ISLAM arrived much later and is relatively new!!



> The Prophecy clearly states:
> 
> (i) The name of the Prophet as Mohammad.
> 
> ...


 Mistranslations and blindbeliever and followers everywhere!!




> 2. According to Bhavishya Purana in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:
> 
> "The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance, the well-known Muhammad (pbuh), is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. O Raja, You need not go to the land of the foolish Pishachas, you will be purified through my kindness even where you are. At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "*O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations.*"


U mean his followers will be men who will take path of disease (circumcision), non-veg (diseases as I mentioned earlier) and will be barbarians i.e warfare as u posted? Pityful!

This post of urs tells that 'all' the Musalmaans will be terrorists which some musalmaans condemn here itself!




> This mantra gave the Rishi's name as Mamah. No rishi in India or another Prophet had this name Mamah which is derived from Mah which means to esteem highly, or to revere, to exalt, etc. Some Sanskrit books give the Prophet’s name as ‘Mohammad’, but this word according to Sanskrit grammar can also be used in the bad sense. It is incorrect to apply grammar to an Arabic word. Actually shas the same meaning and somewhat similar pronunciation as the word Muhammad (pbuh).


 I told u allopanishad is derived as "alla+upanishad" which akbar tried to create. May be u cud show me how "Mamah" is derived!! Also by "mah" and seeing ur comprehension skills I guess u mean "Ma" meaning mother, maha is completely different!! 

Thats how How sanskrit works. Even a slightest mismatch of "Vibhakti", "chin", "halanth" can change the meaning of the word completely and I guess thats how people like u were fooled by the mistranslations by illiterates like ZAkir Nair n max muller!!

Next time quote the sanskrit slokas of the same and from standard sites. Also, Do tell which ISLAMIC site did u copied the mistranslations from!! Those islamic sites also tell that Muhammed was a Vishnu avatar or most probably Kalki!

Little they realise that all the VISHNU avatars have sanskrit names and after the end of Kaliyuga, the satyuga is set to begin again. With little info, they make fool of illiterates!






So u want to see some prophecies? I guess u want some real ones now!!

Here's a site pro-Islamic I guess telling rubbish about all other religions!! So here, what it is says about ISLAM.....



> Mahdi will be a future ruler (iman), descendent from Muhammad, who will lead the faithful to Jerusalem, restore Quranic law and order, and *unite the followers of Islam in a single political state before the apocalypse that ends the world.* He is the Islamic equivalent of a messiah. The concept of Mahdi became prominent only during the early Abbasid period, with three claimants to the title: a caliph, a rival in Mecca, and a martyr, in whose name an anti-Abbasid rebellion was led. The full concept of Mahdi as a messiah, however, did not appear until the end of the ninth century CE.


And since u r quoting the mistranslations from hindu scriptures let me quote some real translated ones! This is from Kalki-Purana....



> "All the Kings will reign on earth at a time(kalki age/present age). They will be without happiness, full of anger, always violent, ungodly and speaking lies. They will kill the women, children and animals. They will be without valor. They will fall immediately after they prosper. They will be full of lust and they will live for a short time. *They will try to unite all the Kingdoms of the world into one world empire. Based on their support, they will [SIZE=+1]behave like Mlecha[/SIZE] in an uncivilized manner and will destroy many people".*


 We all know who r destroying the world today, who we read mostly in the newspapers! Try to relate the above two bolded parts!!


Next, let me quote some NOSTRADAMUS too since some of its prophecies have been true!! I guess there are more than 100 quatrains. In early quatrains it states about Mahdi's rise and that he will gather his soldiers from northern Africa, pakistan, northern INDIA and indonesia. So I'll quote the ones after the Muslim(Mahdi) forces starts weakening!

Source : *NOSTRADAMUS by stephen paulus*



> *
> (159)Century 6, Quatrain 21*
> When those of pole artic will be united together,
> In orient great terror and fear:
> ...


 This is explained to be the cause of "great terror and fear" among the Mahdi's forces!



> *(163) Century 5, Quatrain 70*
> From the regions subject to the Balance,
> They will troublethe mountains through great war,
> Captives of both sexes due and all of Byzantium,
> Which people will cry at dawn from land to land.


 Libra is explained to be United States. The Mahdi's forces in Turkey will find themselves isolated from IRAN and rest of ASiA and completely surrounded. By this time armies of ISLAM will realise that they'll be unable to win the war.

A few quatrains after that explains that US enters the war 25 yrs after the war started and becoz of huge losses to MAhdi's army, the war against ISLAMIC extremism would be won in short time!! Also is described the fate of Mahdi!




> *(166) Century 2, Quatrain 2*
> The head blue will bring to the head white,
> As much evil as France has brought good to them:
> Dead at the antenna the great one hung with the branch,
> Since when caught the King will tell how many.


 The explanation says that Mahdi will be caught, unable to fulfill the prophecies set for him and most likely be tried by a revolt among his own troop. He will be considered as a fraud and multi-national coalitions held by religious beliefs, will collapse.



If u find all this intriguing then do read Kalki Puran and Nostradamus by stephen paulus. I gave u the source and there u will find the original form of Nostradmus too!! U can relate everything easily and Njoy afterwards!!

So instead of giving some jokes from ISLAMIC sites which cannot mind their own business and keep telling lies about other religions, may be u shud educate urself first and then read urself what is written in those slokas urself.

No other religious site AFAIK talks about other religions as such. AND its a pity that people like u even post it on boards! Atleast u shud have the brains to link the source of it all!





			
				In_need_of_help said:
			
		

> @ mediator and @yamraj, like many other people warned me on this forum regarding you guys, I guess there is no more point writing something against your absolute absurd and weird reasoning. If you want to reason, you can reason with whatever bull**** you want. Even 'gays' can reason as to why they think it's perfectly normal!! Hell, even 'transexuals' who try to change their gender have their own reasoning!! So, there is no point bringing out your reasoning with such absurd explanations! Keep it for your own fantasies.
> 
> Respecting other people's thoughts about you 2, I am not going to waste my time trying to prove to you anything when it's all very clear in front of you! Keep reasoning!!
> Help~Is~Here is offline Report Bad Post       Reply With Quote


 WHine when u have nuthing better to say! U wanted the "detailed" explanation, so u had it, science, logic, medical reasoning all!! Learn to respect others and not abuse when u r enlightened. I hope "bull***", "transexuals" etc aren't the words u use for ur parents who teach u and the maulanas who preach u and make u a blind believer!!


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## shantanu (Aug 24, 2007)

what is going on here ?

long stories.. from where do you people get so much time...  another bit of this non-sense talk and the thread will be locked..


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## faraaz (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeesh...sociology textbooks don't have this much waffle...

Mods, please institute a 4 paragraph rule!!! If it takes more than that to get your point across, what your saying isn't worth saying anyway...


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## mediator (Aug 24, 2007)

T159 said:
			
		

> Offtopic:
> 
> was that ur reasoning for hymen ?
> 
> I guess its a check for virginity but no more true now


Nah, like I said this wasn't the first time I was reading absurd reasons a such. 'They' reason about the tube connecting the mother and child also as such, so forgive me for not reading that sentence properly. U'll find the same reasons everywhere from people like such plagiarising Zakir Nair. Its a waste to even explain them about dead cells and living cells etc!!


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## karnivore (Aug 24, 2007)

WOW !! One garbage countered by another (LoL).


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## praka123 (Aug 24, 2007)

Zakir Nair?isnt he Zakir Nayak of hindutva bashing fame,he cant be a Nair


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 25, 2007)

zakir naik is famous on orkut known as joker Nalayak .. He misinterpret hinduism ..
He has logic of 2+2 = 5

he is stupid person who gave rise to religion compare culture


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## praka123 (Aug 25, 2007)

^but these writers appeases the "right people" who wants to see truth to bend the way they want.
I know-Tipu Sultan is seen as a hero.how he  apostatize the native ppl... he did to south are known by us and beatifying Tippu as a Hero  horrible! am not deviating just pointing.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Aug 25, 2007)

zakir naik suupports all evils in islam


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## shantanu (Aug 25, 2007)

so many flames and rubbish talks.. i didnt expect this from some old members.. you guys want every thread locked.. turning a clean forum into dustbin.. @mediator @apacheman 
beware... next time you will be in the miserabled list.. 

@help_is_here @Karnivore : try not be get involved when others start a flame war.. 
and mediator : i never expected such long bull sh1ts from you.. ignorancy at its best.. and apacheman if you dont have anything to do ! then making flames is not a easy of entertainment..


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