# Query on how to set up stereo headphones for gaming



## Soumik (Jun 14, 2013)

Hi All,

I recently got new Bayerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohm headphones for my laptop, and may be later for smartphone usage also (with portable amp).

I didn put up my first impressions here.. so you can take a look if yo want
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/reviews/174829-bayerdynamic-dt-990-pro-impressions.html

My question is, how do i set up my system.. software and may be some cheap hardware, so that i get virtual surround though these headphones. They are only working in stereo mode. Also, how do i enable dolby mode equivalent here? I had Gamecom 780 before this with virtual 7.1 surround and dedicated dolby digital mode. When i turn them on, they sound better than the Bayerdynamics, in the gaming performance division. Sound quality is a different thing altogather, which i dont need any more tweeking i guess. Its already blowing my mind. 

I have a Creative Recon 3Di card inside the laptop, probably equivalent to the pcie card available for desktops. Was hoping that i can enable all these with some software tweaks.

Thanks.


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## Soumik (Jun 16, 2013)

Any pointers from anyone?


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## The Incinerator (Jun 17, 2013)

Buy a Corsair V 1500/1300. The Beyer is for music.


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## Soumik (Jun 18, 2013)

^ Thanks for the reply, but can you tell me why a higher quality headphones will not be able to create better virtual surround, given proper hardware addons? If you gaming reviews of these open headphones, they are unanimously much better in positional audio than even the highest end gaming headsets. But they do have proper audio setups to help them.

Btw.. Corsair 1300? :O they are just stereo gaming headsets... How is that even comparable to these headphones. IMO stereo gaming headsets are just a gimmick to sell overprices stuff. In built virtual surround is the only place and strength, that gaming headphones have over audiophile ones.


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## The Incinerator (Jun 18, 2013)

Gaming headphones will always have a forward overbearing sound signature. They will have frequency bumps which will make them attractive to gamers and not to a Audiophile looking for neutrality.So even after using virtual soundfields the audiophile headphones will sound restrained and not overdoing anything or keep calm and composed which wont be the case with gaming cans as to bring out the explosions and shots they need to sound exciting and forward. Its almost same when you compare HT speaker with stereo speakers.


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 18, 2013)

I have a asus xonar dg sound card it has a front panel headphone amp & dolby digital 7.1 channel surround sound for gaming headphones. Should not some thing simpler is required to drive surround sound gaming headphones or just changing the stereo setting to 5.1 or 7.1 in your audio manager tab should go it.


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## Soumik (Jun 19, 2013)

@The incinerator - Yes you are right. But i am not looking for any kind of special effects in the sound. I am more than happy with what i get from this headphone in games. What i want is simply a more accurate positional cue. I want to know which sound is coming from which direction. I was getting that in the virtual 7.1 headsets, and not getting, as accurately, in this one. Being an open headset, the positional accuracy should ideally be much better in this one. Yes one thing i miss is.. i dont know how to explain it. It happens when i turn on DD on the headset. There is a song 'Rock show' from Halestorm. In the first verse when the music stops near the chorus, her voice has a chilling echoish effect in it. Its more of a live show feel. And its just example, its a general thing. No matter what i try, i cant get that same effect from this one. Its more balanced as you said. 

@Hakimtai - Is your card an external one? How much is it for, and how accurate is the positional accuracy? I have the internal creative SB recon 3D sound card. It supports till 5.1 system. When i force enable it and test the 5 channels, the rear left/right and the front left/right sounds almost same. Very little difference. front and the .1 thing sounds different. Which is why rear sounds are not accurate at all for me. I can hear them, but nt able to determine the exact location. Top and down weren't distinguishable in the prev ones either, so not expecting that. Any idea?


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 19, 2013)

No my sound card is internal one. It cost around 1700 Rs now. i use logitech x-540 speaker set it truly shines in games & movies with the audio setting set to 6 speakers & Analog out to 5.1 speakers with GX mode on i can hear opponents from my hiding place. to verify there position I shift my own & the sound do change speakers accordingly. I have Philips SHP1900 Headphone they are stereo headphones so i can not comment on the headphones your are having but i do have a snap shot of the setting i use in asus dg control panel hope it helps.


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## The Incinerator (Jun 20, 2013)

The Beyer will perform far better with a good source or an AMP/DAC. Its a great Headphone.

For gaming buy one of those Corsairs and the likes.


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## Soumik (Jun 21, 2013)

@ The Incinerator - Thanks. What kind of AMP/DAC would you suggest? About gaming, i would suggest you to check out the gaming reviews of some of the audiophile headphone. They perform much better than gaming headphones in games. And i picked this headphone after going through Mad Lust Envy's headphone gaming guide at Head-fi.org. So, am pretty sure this should perform better than my Gamecom in gaming. It should be dependent on my audio source, ie. the Recon 3D card which it plugs into now.

@Hakimtai - Thanks. Unfortunately Asus Xonar external AMP is more than $500 . But is that picture with your headphone? And if you run ur headphone in this setting, do you get proper surround?


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 21, 2013)

You took it wrong what i have read about your card is it already have an amp that can drive headphones up to 600 ohm impedance but what it lacks is something like the Dolby headphone. Also it fail's in the *Scout Mode* which creative say is able to give you tactical advantage over your enemy by abling you to hear them before you can actually see them.

There a tech radar review about the PCI-E version of the same card.
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe review | Sound cards Reviews | TechRadar


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## The Incinerator (Jun 21, 2013)

FiiO E10 USB DAC (Black) [E10] - Rs.5,500.00 : Pristine Note, Shop audio, headphones, amplifier, DAC, hifi, mp3, audiophile products online store India / FiiO E17 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier [E17] - Rs.9,900.00 : Pristine Note, Shop audio, headphones, amplifier, DAC, hifi, mp3, audiophile products online store India

Start with this fluid sounding FiiO E10 or if you have the budget get the E17


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 21, 2013)

I think as you have your self high lighted in the first impression of your headphones that it would require something hardware or software to simulate surround sound over stereo headphones. below is a topic from tomshardware go thought that and then decide what to do.

How do i simulate surround sound on stereo headphones? - Call Of Duty - Home Audio


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## Soumik (Jun 26, 2013)

@ The Incenerator - Thanks for the suggestions. What do you think of the E07K? If the amp's portable, i would like that, so that i can use this headphone with my phone. For desktop amps, as hakimtai mentioned, i think my onboard card can easily power 250ohms, so for just amping the sound, i dont think i need anything. Is there any huge sound quality advantage that the amps will bring over my current inbuilt card?

@HakimTai - Thanks for the links. So, i guess its pretty much my card thats not giving me the correct positional output. I went through some more links, and they seem to say that its possible to get a good sound card and get that same output. The thing is, most people say creative SB isnt good in positional audio. And the Asus Xonar EOne is too damn costly. As per some if i can get Astro A40's mix amp separately, that should do the trick. I saw some available on eBay for less than $100, but they dont include any wires. Hopefully, it wont be a trouble getting an UBS to sound card wire else where rite?  
Btw, i mentioned that when i had nt figured out how to set the software to 5.1 channel output . So, now i do get 5.1 channel, but as i mentioned here, its nt ver good, or remotely near my gamecom 780's accuracy.


 Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (Updated: 5/23/2013. MrSpeakers Mad Dog v.3.2 Reviewed)
I started following this famous post on gaming headphones, and this guy also mentions some good surround sound devices. Among them, only one with 7.1 channel, amp and remotely affordable, is the 2013 astro mixamp pro. I am feeling thats the only way i can go..


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## The Incinerator (Jun 26, 2013)

Its good but not as portable as the E11.


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 26, 2013)

A good Headphone Amp. is one which can increase the volume with introducing minimum distortion.

*What do you think of the E07K* Correct me if am wrong.
Correct me if am wrong.FiiO Andes (E07K) Portable USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier has an headphone impedance recommended in b/w 16-150 ohms. How would you drive a 250 ohms impedance headphone efficiently on them.As your signature show you own a Galaxy s2 which uses a Yamaha d.a.c. the audio output of this dac is simply not up to the mark.in comparison to S1 & now other galaxy flagships of samsung. It's also the reason that samsung kicked yahama & went crying back to wolfsten which is currently power the galaxy series as it did in s1 time. here take a look at the gsm anerna review of the galaxy s2 audio output

Samsung I9100 Galaxy S II review: Brightest star - GSMArena.com 

The source must be good to deliver good audio quality out of the headphones. i would suggest either you upgrade to HTC one which has build in amp for headphones. or down grade to s1 to get the best audio quality Along with an amp.

For now you can try voodoo loud from (play store). It a software based solution to exhale yamaha chip to output for volume with minimum distortion. test with youe headphone to see if this pleases you.

Asus Xonar Essential One is an audiophile amp not meant for gaming attics investing into that would mean loss to you. 

I can not comment on Astro A40's mix amp right now .... will post later


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## The Incinerator (Jun 27, 2013)

You can drive the Beyer with the E07K but as the Ohms will stress the amp it will result in battery drain or heat for the amp/dac.


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## Knight2A4 (Jun 28, 2013)

In search of obtaining a surround experience on headphones finally i have come to a link which should solve your problem.

Meet Asus xonar U3 


this is a USB based sound card that support's dobly digital headphones & also comes with a headphone amp. biggest plus is the GX2.5 emulator that have emulate EAX 5.0 & lover that was used in older games


*www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_U3/
Here is a guide to setup the Dolby digital headphone & If this is ture then these should even work on my low end once.


Asus Xonar DG setup (i.e. Battlefield 3) w/Dolby Headphone? - [H]ard|Forum


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## Soumik (Jul 6, 2013)

Thank you for the suggestions. I apologize for the late reply. Been really tied up with work last few days.

The E07K, in amazon says that it can handle up to 300ohms headphones. So, no sure why there would be a strain that you are talking about.

About my phone, yes... even though its not I9100, its a T989 which is quite different from the Indian SII, it still is an SII, and has the same audio chip. About my plans to upgrade the handset, i am waiting to see Moto X and Note III. If they are really very good, i might go for them. Else will settle to wait and buy S4 in some thanksgiving deal. Not really a fan of HTC's metal clad heavy bodies. And many times, i recovered from my phone from apparent death by, well.. keeping the battery out for a few hours and putting it back in. So, removable batteries is a must for me.
So, i guess i should wait till then to buy the amplifier.

Xonar U3 looks to be a nice little gadget. But how good will the surround sound be, and will it be possible to get 7.1/5.1 from all games? 

Any chance that you found anything on the Astro Mixamp 2013 edition? Its more than double the price of an U3, but is it worth it?

I found a software that emulates 7.1 surround. And to my surprise it works really well. Its called Razer Surround.
It basically forces the sound blaster control to default to stereo headphones mode. And then uses a separate control panel to let you configure the 7 speakers around you. Not only i could distinguish the 7 different locations, i could move the speaker position and feel it move perfectly. I loved it initially. I haven't tested on any surround sound games yet, but i guess they would sound correct. It has other sound enhancements also like Bass Boost and stuff, which really effect the sound. 
The down side which i felt, was that the sound lost in quality. It pretty much bypasses the creative card i guess. Cause not only the sound was low in volume and slightly muffled, outside of game the songs were not as good as when i listen without the razer software. But you can give it a try. I feel its not able to drive my headphones properly, as its bypassing the amplifier on my creative card.


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## The Incinerator (Jul 6, 2013)

Why dont you try the Sony phones like the Z or ZL or ZR if you are looking in that range. Of all Sony has always got the best sound after a few Nokia models,though.Samsung has a upfront presentation and HTC never really got a clue when its camera and sound.

I use in ear monitors like Klipsch Custom 3 and Sleek Audio SA-6 and trust me they dont lie,Sony and Iphone 5 topped in the music presentation thing. Even with a studio monitor like Dynaudio 52SE powered by a Denon and Brinkmann stereo amplifier {solid State} in either cases they sounded great. So.

I always had a thing for Motorolas ,they sound very analog ...warm..!


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 8, 2013)

o.k  

Q1 Amazon says Fiio E07K Can handle headphone up to 300 omhs? Then y no sure why there would be a strain that you are talking about ?

Ans. *Go the Fiio website* Amazon will always say that to sell it's stuff. There see the like belove




About my phone, yes... even though its not I9100, its a T989 which is quite different from the Indian SII, it still is an SII, and has the same audio chip. *Same audio Chip means Same performance no matter what the model name is *

Go for Samsung galaxy S4 It king of the android Arena right now. & has the cleanest audio output in any phone.


Xonar U3 Has everything you will need along with an amp. Also did you try the guide with the Razer Surround that i sheared in before post.



What ever headphone emulation you use always remember that they will only try to emulate surround sound on stereo source so what ever comes which the sound card is best b/c it tested for it.

Doblly Headphones or Razer Surround These software are meant for gaming & movies only. Why would you what to hear Music on emulated surround sound when it best experienced on stereo only. 

*Sony and Iphone 5 topped in the music presentation thing* 

These is what Indian's  thinks after Sony has only released a few Walkman phone and that was also at the time of ericsson. Now the partnership is over sony has taken over n started it own series with the name xperia. 

There take a look at these.

Sony Xperia Z Screen

 

Sony Xperia Z Battery



Audio Quality 



Compare to Samsung galaxy S4 



Link to full comparison to Samsung galaxy s4 & Sony xperia Z 

Samsung Galaxy S4 vs. Sony Xperia Z: When worlds collide - GSMArena.com

*Audio quality is not only subjected to high end earphones but it depends on a no. of things *


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## The Incinerator (Jul 8, 2013)

Hakimtai said:


> *Sony and Iphone 5 topped in the music presentation thing*
> 
> *These is what Indian's * thinks after Sony has only released a few Walkman phone and that was also at the time of ericsson. Now the partnership is over sony has taken over n started it own series with the name xperia.



^^ You did not get the point,thats the problem with the very few shallow Indians like you  !!!

Do you know what studio monitors are or why are they used? Do you own any or have you even heard them in full balanced layout? Im sure you havnt and none of your linked review sites! Thats the problem with no first hand experience in audio and just leeching HTML pages thats bound to happen.Im not amazed.With a Xonar DG and Logitech x540 ,I know thats the best you could have done

Hi end ear phones ...thats for another day,son!


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 8, 2013)

The Incinerator said:


> ^^ You did not get the point,thats the problem with the very few shallow Indians like you  !!!
> 
> Do you know what studio monitors are or why are they used? Do you own any or have you even heard them in full balanced layout? Im sure you havnt and none of your linked review sites! Thats the problem with no first hand experience in audio and just leeching HTML pages thats bound to happen.Im not amazed.With a Xonar DG and Logitech x540 ,I know thats the best you could have done
> 
> Hi end ear phones ...thats for another day,son!



You really come to conclusion too soon did i ever said in any of my post that i have a first hand experience I learn as much as i can from links n only then post non like posting high end gear n posting it sound wonderful. HELL i am proud of the stuff that i own.
If you are so into high end earphone Please clearly that also GRANDPA !!!!


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## Soumik (Jul 9, 2013)

Ok guys lets keep it to a gentle discussion and not a heated debate, otherwise mods will shut this down. 

High end in ear monitors basically level out all the ridges we see in that gsmarena audio test graphs. So, whichever phone you choose, provided it covers every part of the graph, you will get a good balanced audio output. Thats what i think it is.
But the thing is, i dont think i want to own an IEM earphone. The ones that Incinerator mentioned, are pretty costly. I might buy it down the line though. but since i just got this new headphone, i will wait a bit before buying another IEM. (Unless custom made, i really find normal IEs pretty uncomfortable  )
So, as Hakimtai pointed out, without external help, Galaxy S IV does have one of the best audio outputs. But i think so does Optimus G Pro, and in line to that, the upcoming LG G2 and Note 3 might also be having pretty good audio. Am waiting for them to release, cause they will be having better performance than the current flagships S IV and Butterfly S. I did find S IV having slight lags with my operations even in the launch event.   Xperia ZL is better performance, but really, i cant handle 6.4" screen. !!!
About iphone 5, i listened to audio on same car stereo system from it and S IV, i liked S IV audio output better.

About the U3, I found this review, and it says exactly what you said, hakimtai. Plus the reviewer seems to have an alienware, which means same sound card as my laptop. Hence, makes it all that more relevant for me. 
â€œBest sound card in its class.â€￾ - mharidasâ€™s Review of Asus Xonar U3

About Fiio, really disappointed to know that it cant drive my headphones. But i guess i should wait for a phone change anyways.  I'll do it probably within a couple of months. The SIV will still not be able to drive my headphones. No matter how good the audio is. So, does none of the Fiio mobile products work? I saw a guy running my headphones with an iPhone 3GS using the E5, which is like the smallest and cheapest of the Fiio products .


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## The Incinerator (Jul 9, 2013)

Having high end audio gear is not about making anything and everything sound good. High end neutral audio gears will bring or show the good and the bad of the SOURCE connected to it. Its more like a magnifying glass. So when you connect a good amp or dac or speakers to a bad source [Fone/Mp3 player/CD player] it will bring the bad out and vice versa. Your Beyers are one of those gears,which are neutral and have an insight,which is wonderful as long as the source and recordings are good. 

Read this.....Smartphones for audiophiles: is the iPhone 5 more musical than its rivals?
HTC One phone claims to be best music mobile | whathifi.com
*www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm

Xperia Z sound reviewd by What HiFi !!!
**www.whathifi.com/review/sony-xperia-z*

So Hakim it aint what we "Indians" think its what audiophiles the world over think!


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## Soumik (Jul 10, 2013)

Well, as i have read in some other sites, iPhone 5 doesnt really have any advantage over the other phones like Xperia Z in audio quality. Its more of a personal preference point. Galaxy S 3, Note 2 and S 4 have by far the cleanest and most balanced audio output from a cell phone. Now Xperia Z, HTC One and the qualcomm S4 all have qualcomm audio chipset inside them. Just that, HTC One and Xperia Z have inbuilt amplifiers which give the audio a louder and punchier feel. On attaching an external amp like E17 to the S4, you will get the same results, cause the source is basically the same. The Indian S4, or the Exynos version on the other hand has a Wolfson chipset, like the Indian S3 and Note 2, just a higher model. Which makes the sound, though marginally, but better than the Qualcomm chipsets. Still, because it lacks a good inbuilt dac and amplifier, it requires an external one to get rid of the background noise (in high end IEMs) and get better audio output.

As for U3, I am quite impressed by the reviews on amazon as some are people owning Alienwares with their creative cards. When i see positive reviews from them, i am getting really impressed with it, specially at its price point. I am waiting for the next salary to order mine... unless something else changes my mind


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 10, 2013)

Alright lets start this .............. 

I would had been stated wrong if what soumik comment was right "High end in ear monitors basically level out all the ridges we see in that gsmarena audio test graphs. So, whichever phone you choose, provided it covers every part of the graph, you will get a good balanced audio output" .... Basically that would mean some kind of holy grill headphones that can even made a junk tape player sound like Apollo was singing from the source .... but then what grandpa stated "Having high end audio gear is not about making anything and everything sound good. High end neutral audio gears will bring or show the good and the bad of the SOURCE connected to it. Its more like a magnifying glass. So when you connect a good amp or dac or speakers to a bad source [Fone/Mp3 player/CD player] it will bring the bad out and vice versa" that only cements my comment to the floor that " Audio quality is not only subjected to high end earphones but it depends on a no. of things" Number of things like the "digital format used" , "quality of recording" "Audio source" & "earphone used"

Now *to the links*

Smartphones for audiophiles: is the iPhone 5 more musical than its rivals?

I remembered going to the exact page around last nov. the conclusion of this page ends in subjective depending upto individual needs ... but still in the end in over all performance samsung galaxy s3 took the cake. But these where last year top gun's while they where good for there time. they are no much for full 1080p screen flagships of present years Audio quality has also up steped from the what was good last year. 


HTC One phone claims to be best music mobile | whathifi.com

While *What hi-fi* is a popular sites for reviews while i was reading thought the HTC one audio quality review i noticed that the review was not detailed as it should had been .... its more like subjective the reviewer states that HTC one was as good as to hear on earphone as it was on speakers but fails mentioning what specification the used to test the product. This was more accelerated by the review of samsung galaxy s4 where the reviewer states that s4 sounds extremely bad while advising to use more expensive earphones. I think he used the stock earphones which came along with the samsung galaxy s4. & more over his recommendation towards iphone 5 looked like he was payed for the review. Payed or not payed If a manufacturer bundles cheap earphones then the audio quality for the person listening through them will always be poor.

GSM ARENA on the other hand has defined there ways of testing audio quality depending on the variation that comes with & without resistance. What it means is quality of audio should be produced in the same manner that it was intended to listen while it was recorded by the recording artist. 

Here is a link below



iPhone 5 Audio Quality Measurements
*
iPhone 5 Audio Quality* No .... Thanks Never liked any apple product so can not comment. The same reason why i did not comment on iphone when it was also along with sony 

*Sony and Iphone 5 topped in the music presentation thing *

Finally *Xperia Z sound reviewd by What HiFi !!!*
Sony Xperia Z review from the experts at whathifi.com

As i had stated in my last comment the reviewer there clearly says he used the stock earphones. That concludes I LOVE GSM ARENA.

The only reason why sony  was able to get a nice big chuck of the smartphone market was b/c it lunched it's product way before others did like 2 months a head of htc one. The crowd waiting for 1080p displays rushed to grad one like hungry dogs on meat bonds What was relent that the display was below par when compared to other smart phones. In today's age Smartphones have melted down to personal preferences Weather it would be Sony's  IP55 and IP57 certified dust & water proof or Samsung Super Amoled 1080p high resolution screen or HTC uni body casing or Iphones app hub.Saying x is better than y without any proof on personal taste is a blunder.
*
Lastly GRANDPA* *...... STOP turning & twisting the word "Indians" and making it sound like i was pointing towards a group of people to earn sympathy on fellow tread readers * .... When i said Indians. I meant towards the ideology of people phrasing a Brand as it was the HOLY GRILL. It just on here the same thing can be seen in USA also where people think APPLE product are straight from the heavenly garden itself. Where as other bands are out producing apple in ever front.

@Soumik I am happy that you have found my suggestion helpful. the only reason i went all the way goggled around was b/c i soo you also was researching & not just leeching on me.


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## The Incinerator (Jul 10, 2013)

@ Soumik

Yes, Wolfson, being in the Hiend audio business along with BurrBrown and Cirrus will always have better audio output over any DAC used, inherently.The Timing Coherence are the correct word. Having an amp circuit in the board is nothing but being able to drive headphones and IEM which present a difficult load or resistance to the amp of the source.So the point is having a proper DAC in the source is of utmost importance which determines the final sound signature on the speakers or Headphones etc. The detail Retrieval, the Soundstage and accuracy are all the thing a proper DAC will do. The shorter the path the better it is of the music processing the better it. You can always  Externally DAC a phone through USB but the clock timing wont be synchronized which will lead in to jitter,the last thing we want in audio. Externally amping is free of those evils so buying a source with a good DAC is always a no brainer.



Hakim GSM arena for phones audio evaluation   Get to the point and prove that Xperia Z has bad audio quality as we INDIANS think according to you elite whatever, than posting History answer sheet level crap!!!

Now you will decide who was paid and not paid to do a iPhone5 review, I think you are paid to do a bad press about iPhone 5 and Xperia Z...but hell you aint worth it!!!


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 10, 2013)

I guess i will have to write it down for you *grandpa *  ....... The series of audio quality tests gsmanerna performs measure how well a device is able to reproduce sound, based on a scientific approach rather than subjective opinion. *Keeping mind that these tests do not take into account any retail headsets that come with the device.* *(This is the difference i was talking about in the review published by what hi-fi )* . gsmanerna use the same pair of AKG headphones when they test the output with headphones attached to the phone to even up the field.

*Get to the point and prove that Xperia Z has bad audio quality*

Well this is why i said that you jump on conclusion... *Grams* Did in any of my comments i said Xperia Z has bad audio quality  ....  What i stated was Xperia Z audio quality was inferior to S4. check it your self. Now dont come saying you that i have drawn away.

We *INDIANS* think according to you elite .... *GRandpa* *Stopping hiding behind words as i have already addressed to Indian thingy* ....... Matter of fact .... Reviews, opinions are also helping people decide what equipment they are looking for right. Tell Me then from all the comments you made which one actually come close to resolving the initial query that started this tread. *Query on how to set up stereo headphones for gaming   *


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## Soumik (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanks Hakimtai for the efforts.  I try to do research on almost all stuff that i buy on my own. And then discuss with friends. But i dont currently have any friends nearby to discuss these stuff with. So i need help from you guys in the forum to get to discuss. I am glad that i am finding quite a few things new out of this discussion. 

I did ask for the headphone usage on my phone also, which was the beginning of me needing a new phone discussion. So, Incinerator's comments are not off the main topic.

I do agree with Hakimtai on the whathifi audio reviews, as they didnt say what they tested on, and just said that the S4 audio is why, without a reason why it is bad... Gsmarena graphs are a little more transparent. But one thing has to be noted is that they changed their testing a bit during some of the newer reviews, so S4 results cannot directly be compared to the results from Xperia Z, as they were different tests. For me, i would trust members of head-fi forums over either gsmarena or whathifi forums.

But plz, enough of Indian mentality debate . Its quite funny to me, as we are all Indians afterall.  So, no need to blame our own mentality. People had the idea that nokia and sony phones are good, as they were really good early. But their popularity is the main reason i wanted to stay away from them throughout my phone buying career. Anyways, lets not twist and turn our own nationality to express our thoughts.

BTW... i did try the Voodoo loud app from play store last week. But unfortunately it didnt support my phone. It supports the international and AT&T version (I777 model), but no sign of TMobile's version (T989 model). I ran the compatibility, and it said it doesn't support, so there's pretty much no hope for my current device .


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## The Incinerator (Jul 11, 2013)

Hakim get a life! 

You know what, when I wrote that I actually used the same gears to test both the iPhone and XperiaZ and have first hand experience ,and not leeching ,I meant it,but Kid you had this thing implaneted on your mind that the walkman thing gets us going for Sony.hell no ,its sound .....get both hemispheres to work and actually do A/B tests rather than presenting some one elses reviews.These read reviews and buy have let to audio disasters.

Its not about graphs and synthetics its about actual the actual output.If you know what that means.And doing that over quality audio gear which none of the review links you posted had done,so its pointless.My gear was substantially more capable than an AKG,but since you are not aware about hardware,its futile.


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 11, 2013)

gsm arena, Head fi or what hi fi all are good sites for reviews. the only reason I relay on gsm arena reviews b/c they present a more accurate description represented by graphs which are mathematically calculable along with including distortions in frequency response, noise levels, dynamic range,intermodulation distortion & stereo crosstalk which altogether webs an images which would other wise be difficult for a lone reviewer to express. 

The gsm aerna update that said *We've identified an issue with our testing procedure that caused lower readings for dynamic range, noise level and stereo crosstalk on some smartphones. We've since rectified it and updated the scores to reflect the actual performance on the affected devices.* Since Xperia z result show *The stereo crosstalk rises and some distortion creeps in* certainly It would have be more close to zero degradation in that case if it would had been in the list of device that was affected. Also gsm arena did not completely changed the way it test the devices but some of the smart phones which where affected certainly there score where updated and so since the scores of  Xpera Z where not changed. i would said it certainly went thought the same test as Galaxy S4 did.


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## The Incinerator (Jul 14, 2013)

I would always rely on actual sound quality over synthetic tests and instruments doing it for me. Many a equipment doing great on paper and tests [eg Krell S300i] fell flat when actuals were done.And audio is the last thing that you should rely on in papers and instruments and "great" reviews.


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 16, 2013)

For normal person who might not have the experience or the high end gear required to perform an in-depth analysis for a product is always going to relay on review sites like head-fi, gsm arena n others two seek out there desired product. Its only sensible to acquire the best product that full fills the most requirement at the price that he/she is willing to invest on that particular product. This might just be opposite to those professional who have such high end equipment & experience people seek them for advice. The same with other who come to this forum seeking help.

Below is an example of a review for the same product done by two reviewer’s of well known Indian tech sites. But totally opposite to each other at a specific point which eventually changes the product rating from *former* very good to *later* average. The two reviewers are also professionals & express there view of the product. But with out any mathematical or without any instrumental scaling to a normal reader this crates confusion.

*tech2.in.com Cowon EM1 Earphones Review*

Cowon EM1 with Remote and Mic Review, Price, Specifications - Tech2

I would like to point towards the fase



> The only downside is that the relatively large drivers are a bit harder to drive for average PMPs and smartphones. However, that isn't a concern as these media players still have enough grunt to power them. Having said that, using a headphone amplifier indeed does make a palpable difference to the bass authority and slam provided by the earphones. At any rate, the IEMs sound brilliant without any amplification, so it's no harm done. This is a good thing because it would be foolish to expect users to spend extra on a headphone amplifier at this price point





> Whether you come from the low or mid-end IEMs, the EM1 should definitely impress the pants off you. Everything about the Cowon's performance, from timbre accuracy to soundstage and imaging, is several notches above what's available at its price. These are, by far, the best budget IEMs money can buy. In fact, the Cowon EM1's double whammy of unsurpassed performance and value makes it the benchmark in the budget IEM segment.



*Techtree.com Review: COWON EM1*

Review: COWON EM1 (With Remote And Mic) | TechTree.com

&  to point towards the fase



> it seems to be unable to produce bass and mid-range at the fullest when plugged into a mobile phone or a PMP. We tried out with an iPhone and other mobile phones to make sure. The audio sounds as if it is being held back in these frequency ranges, while the treble is cheerful and bright. Just to make sure, we plugged it into the soundcard output of a PC equipped with a Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Titanium and it sounded perfectly well as one would expect of a COWON product. We deduce that drivers do not receive sufficient power from the audio circuitry in a mobile phone or a PMP, and therefore plugging it into an amp makes a difference.





> While the treble is well-reproduced, it underperforms in the bass and mid-range and requires an amp to rescue it, which is hardly possible when using with a mobile phone or a PMP — its expected usage scenarios.





> Cons: Audio appears to be held back in bass and mid-range



Both of them agree that the IEM requires an amp to bring it to its fullest potential & also that the its impractical to buy an amp to drive the IEM solely. Then also for the former reviewer he said that the IEM can be used with any pmp or mobile  & recommends the IEM while the later drives away from the IEM for the same point & gives it a no go.

O.k i read these reviews & what i think is that the former reviewer likes more balanced audio and hence suggested that these IEM would work perfectly without an amplification. While later likes bass more & suggested that an amp is required to drive these IEM. This is also reflected from his suggestion for an alternative of  creative EP 630 which are bassy earphones. So towards in the end it become clear that sound is personal preference & that it depends to people what they like but should one invest in these. That's where calculable instrumental scaling comes in. If they would had high lighted the audio signature of the IEM with n without an amp that would had indefinitely answered a few questions more n also helped people to clarify weather they should buy it or not.

for exp. In a scale of 1 to 100 what is the improvement of the IEM with n without an amp. the difference in the values for the initial & later would have suggest that If it would be a wise decision for a person like me who already owns an amp to invest in these IEM or are these IEM would sound to my preference without an amplification. The former would apply to bass heads & the later for audiophile. As both of the reviewer's admitted that there is indefinite improvement in bass with the use of an amp.

Well the above product is just 1200 bucks worth n nothing to write an essay about but when it comes to product that like 35-40k for a normal hard working tax paying citizen. I think it a worthy decision to check it out all the *papers and instruments and "great" reviews. * to invest in them.


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## The Incinerator (Jul 17, 2013)

Hakimtai said:


> So towards in the end it become clear that sound is personal preference & that it depends to people what they like but should one invest in these.




Now you are talking. When its audio its what you like over a reviewer or the synthetics. Its the final sound.  Just a small example,real ones , My Razer Mako on paper claims 300 watts of D class power with BASH and THX certification of that claim!!!, but my Denon claims 140 watts of two channel power ,my Denon with less than half of that 140 watts on tap will drown the Makos full volume sound to Oblivion! *So thats paper for you!*


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## Knight2A4 (Jul 17, 2013)

> So towards in the end it become clear that sound is personal preference & that it depends to people what they like *but should one invest in these. That's where calculable instrumental scaling comes in*



You miss the point I was talking about how some one who have not experience of  such products. Invest into them if there is no reviews & no synthetics to prove what they claims if you had never heard Denon then would not you believe that Razer Mako sounds best since it got BASH and THX certification of that claim To add to that when denon is half weight when compared to mako. What paper or  instrumental scaling do is to support your claims.

I am not talking about claims done by companies i mean instrumental scaling & synthetics shown by reviewer to product there review.


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## Soumik (Aug 2, 2013)

Hi Guys.

I ordered the Asus Xonar U3 and received it a week back. I really dont think this requires any separate review, so will give my impressions here itself.


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## Soumik (Aug 3, 2013)

After using it for quite a few days, i can say that i not fully satisfied with it. I got kind of spoiled by the bass that the creative card offered. I am really missing it in the xonar card. No one seems to have complained about it, so i guess the other creative usb cards dont have the same amount of bass as the recon 3di internal card offers. 
Surround sound wise, its miles ahead though. If its just for gaming, though i couldnt really test the surround, i can feel that the surround really works well is some of the games i tried it on. And the software  also much more stable one, though with lesser functions. but it does bring me back to my Gamecom 780 feeling, which is what i initially wanted for sound effects. I guess the Dolby Digital Live is what i wanted. So, even though i am missing the bass, i am still using the xonar for all my purposes. 
I have read of people using this card with an amplifier to power their more powerful headphones, so it may also be a case of not able to fully drive my headphones, that the bass is slightly lacking.


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## Knight2A4 (Aug 6, 2013)

Hi .... Soumik nice to know that you have found what you where looking for If you think the base is a little less for your taste you can use equalizers to add some more depth to it .... Yes the games itself should support Surround sound ..... You can ask  Incinerator
if he can suggest you any amp that will work best with your headphones .....


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## Soumik (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks Hakimtai.

Yes i would want to know if the lack of bass is actually due to lack of power to drive the headphones. If so, which one would be the best amp for them? I may not buy them right away though, just to keep in note for future... may be back to school or thanksgiving sale...


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