# iPhone 3G's true cost is $1,237!!!!!



## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

Everywhere you look, a new iPhone price hike turns up. At $199, the phones themselves may be cheaper — but Apple and AT&T, the phone's exclusive carrier in the U.S., are charging users by other means. The iPhone data plan by itself is going up $10 to $30/mo. In a GigaOm interview, AT&T wireless chief Ralph de la Vega reveals that the 200 text messages previously included *will cost iPhone users* an extra $5/mo. ($20/mo. for unlimited messages, which seem practically obligatory.) And then there's Apple's MobileMe subscription, without which the iPhone's new synching features won't work, at $99 a year, or just over $8 a month. Add it up, and iPhone users will be paying about $43 a month, or $1,038 over the two-year course of the AT&T contract they signed up for — all to get an iPhone at $199. 
No wonder AT&T is taking so many steps to make life difficult for people who try to buy an iPhone without a contract. Some bloggers are fussing about the fact that AT&T will *no longer offer a prepaid plan* for those with poor credit. What about those solvent enough to deserve an iPhone 3G? After AT&T and Apple get done with them, I wonder what their credit rating will look like.

Source: *valleywag.com/5015160/iphone-3gs-true-cost-is-1237


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

The fact that they included the price of MobileMe (previously known as .Mac) just shows how desperate they are to prove their point, which is quite obviously based on a very shaky premise.

MobileMe is a rebranded .Mac, a service Apple has offered for the past several years, long before the advent of the iPhone. Just because it has been fashioned to integrate well with the iPhone does not mean you can add it’s price to the iPhone’s and then blame it for being expensive. That’s just plain ridiculous.

Going by that logic, you should add the cost of a Mac and an Apple TV to the iPhone’s price too, and maybe even the cost of media purchased from the iTunes Store and applications bought off the App Store. Maybe you can throw in the price of an AirPort Extreme too because that works rather well with an iPhone, from what I hear.

Do these guys not use that brain thing they’re supposed to have before they pen down ludicrous articles!

MobileMe, by the way, is a cross-platform service that is completely independent of the iPhone, or even Macs, for that matter. And it offers a whole lot more than just wireless synchronisation capabilities. It offers 20GB of online storage, email and website hosting too, among other things.

Stupidity has its limits…


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> Stupidity has its limits…


The difference between Genius & Stupidity is that the latter does not have limits  or in other words, Genius has it's limits.

But let's try and make a rough estimate though:

Base price: 9,000/-
VAT: 1,150/-
Airtel Plan: boom
Misc (Distributor's cut): ~1,000/-

My guess is that the phone will be somewhere around 15k to 18k here.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

Well, including cost of MobileMe does not make for a very sensible calculation! The data plan for iphone is going to cost $30! On top of this users have to buy a voice plan starting at $40 a month! So basically it is $70 per month for 24 months which is 1680 plus 199 i.e. it comes to about $1879 which is expensive!!


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> The fact that they included the price of MobileMe (previously known as .Mac) just shows how desperate they are to prove their point, which is quite obviously based on a very shaky premise.
> 
> MobileMe is a rebranded .Mac, a service Apple has offered for the past several years, long before the advent of the iPhone. Just because it has been fashioned to integrate well with the iPhone does not mean you can add it’s price to the iPhone’s and then blame it for being expensive. That’s just plain ridiculous.
> 
> ...


 
Reminds me of a classic song, "Potaeto, Potaato". How ever you pronounce, the meaning is same. How ever you want to desperately explain that iphone is VFM, it's useless. 

Simple fact: An 8Gb ipod touch costs 250$. There is no way that apple is gonna sell iphone 3G for just $199. They are gonna suck all that extra cash they need month after month till nothing's left to suck. Back to square one. iPhone 3G is gonna cost more than what iphone first gen costed and that will be done in a way transparent to end users.



iMav said:


> The difference between Genius & Stupidity is that the latter does not have limits  or in other words, Genius has it's limits.
> 
> But let's try and make a rough estimate though:
> 
> ...


 
You should take brand image into consideration in India. Add another 3k


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

I have a feeling its going to cost the same as what Airtel/Vodafone announced in the press release (25k +).


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ There certainly is a chance.

but I think then there will be no extra rental but extra rental for 3G


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## napster007 (Jun 12, 2008)

economically iphone is the worst gadget out there!!


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ Not only economically 



Pat said:


> I have a feeling its going to cost the same as what Airtel/Vodafone announced in the press release (25k +).


Did they? I think that was rediff's speculation and considering their Vodafone speculation turned out to be true, people are assuming that the price predcition will do too. Something I have huge doubts. With a base price of ~9k the selling price cannot be 25k.


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## prem4u (Jun 12, 2008)

napster007 said:


> economically iphone is the worst gadget out there!!



+1


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ I think what ayush said is correct! there are certainly loopholes in the statements made by steve! It is prolly $199 only for the 22 initial countries and not for India! Coz in India you dont expect people to pay 1500 plus per month rental (Airtel must be knowing this and wont be willing to take a chance)!!


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

^^That's right. That is why they will put the price at somewhere aboe 16k or 17k and keep the rentals low.

That is why India's name is not in the first 22 list. Coz what Steve is going to do is release it on July 11 only in those countries where iphone base price can be set to $199 or less.

Great tactic to create buzz in the rest 48 countries.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> ^^ I think what ayush said is correct! there are certainly loopholes in the statements made by steve! It is prolly $199 only for the 22 initial countries and not for India! Coz in India you dont expect people to pay 1500 plus per month rental (Airtel must be knowing this and wont be willing to take a chance)!!


There cannot be such huge disparity in prices of one gadget across the world. One place you get it at $199 and some place else you get it an outrageous price, 2 and a half times of that! Just doesn't make sense. Also, we are forgetting the fact that there are going to 2 distributors for iPhone services, something that will definitely impact the prices.

Jobs said that the max price would be $199. In India this will be + Applicable Taxes, like in case of all Apple products.

And it's Aayush.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> There cannot be such huge disparity in prices of one gadget across the world. One place you get it at $199 and some place else you get it an outrageous price, 2 and a half times of that! Just doesn't make sense. Also, we are forgetting the fact that there are going to 2 distributors for iPhone services, something that will definitely impact the prices.
> 
> Jobs said that the max price would be $199. In India this will be + Applicable Taxes, like in case of all Apple products.
> 
> And it's Aayush.



Yes, but the prices are subsidized in other countries which cover up for it by charging exhorbitantly in the monthly rentals! Its not possible to do the same in India and hence I think so.However, as far as we dont hear anything officially, your guess is as good as mine!


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> Well, including cost of MobileMe does not make for a very sensible calculation! The data plan for iphone is going to cost $30! On top of this users have to buy a voice plan starting at $40 a month! So basically it is $70 per month for 24 months which is 1680 plus 199 i.e. it comes to about $1879 which is expensive!!


People will go to any lengths just to prove that Apple is ripping you off. Don’t you have to pay for calls and EDGE and SMS on other phones? When you buy a car, you don’t calculate how much you’re going to drive it every month and the fuel consumption as a result and then add it for the period of seven years to calculate the total price.

Get real, guys. The network got upgraded from EDGE to 3G and, as a result, now costs $10 more. What’s wrong with that? That’s basic Business 101.

Take the price of the Nokia 95 and add the cost of a postpaid connection over the period of two years and see what you come up with.


And, in any case, if it is expensive for you, don’t buy it—who’s forcing you to!



iMav said:


> There cannot be such huge disparity in prices of one gadget across the world. One place you get it at $199 and some place else you get it an outrageous price, 2 and a half times of that! Just doesn't make sense.


Actually, it does. And it’s happening even now. That’s because the Indian market is, thankfully enough, different from the one in the U.S.. The N95 costs upwards of Rs. 30,000 out here but you get it for less than half of that price with a subscription in the U.S..

Overall, though, they end up paying more than we do and we have more freedom. I hate the fact that the iPhone is going to change that.



iMav said:


> And it's Aayush.


Thank you!


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## apoorva84 (Jun 12, 2008)

will stick to windows mobile any day....no macs or iphones or ipods for me...


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

apoorva84 said:


> will stick to windows mobile any day....no macs or iphones or ipods for me...


Trust me, smart choice


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> People will go to any lengths just to prove that Apple is ripping you off. Don’t you have to pay for calls and EDGE and SMS on other phones? *When you buy a car, you don’t calculate how much you’re going to drive it every month and the fuel consumption as a result and then add it for the period of seven years to calculate the total price.*



You (not you, I mean normal average-income Indians) DO keep in mind how much average ,for example, a car gives before buying it. But probably you wont understand it! 

Do you understand the reason why tata indicas and all are popular in India ? 





> And, in any case, if it is expensive for you, don’t buy it—who’s forcing you to!


Thats a really stupid comment coz I never said somebody is forcing me. The thread is just a discussion of how much the iphone is going to cost!!


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## apoorva84 (Jun 12, 2008)

have a look at this..just read this at engadget...


```
*www.engadget.com/2008/06/12/unsubsidized-iphone-3g-priced-at-499-569-in-europe/
```


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> You DO keep in mind how much average ,for example, a car gives before buying it.


Yeah, but that’s not the same as multiplying and adding up the total amount you’ll pay over the period of two years. A parallel to judging the mileage the car will give would be to judge whether you want to pay $70 per month to the carrier for voice and data or not. You can‘t, however, add that cost to the price of the handset and declare it expensive, just like you can’t add the cost of the fuel to the price of the car.

That’s what you did in the post I quoted and that’s the premise this thread’s shamelessly sensationalist title is based on.

Get my point?


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> Yeah, but that’s not the same as multiplying and adding up the total amount you’ll pay over the period of two years. A parallel to judging the mileage the car will give would be to judge whether you want to pay $70 per month to the carrier for voice and data or not. You can‘t, however, add that cost to the price of the handset and declare it expensive, just like you can’t add the cost of the fuel to the price of the car.
> 
> That’s what you did in the post I quoted and that’s the premise this thread’s shamelessly sensationalist title is based on.
> 
> Get my point?



Yes, but the whole analogy is not so correct. Let me explain you with an example:

Person X did 1000 kms in one month in his new car. Owing to this, he decides to use his car less for the next month (say for 300-400 kms). With this plan in place, he can control how much he spends monthly on the car.

Possible with iphone ?


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ Of course, When you are paying installments for the car, you do select based on which brand has better installment option, better monthly interest etc. 

Same as for mobile. We select the one that has better rental and also consider how much extra to be paid every month if initial amount is low etc etc.

Of course, this is called "HAVING A CHOICE OF SELECTION WHICH YOU MACBOYS HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT"

If you are going to get a phone or a car in one shot payment,we do consider things like amount to be paid for what is available, how it suites our need etc, how reliable it is etc. 

Dude. We all know how costly it will be at the end of the day. If you don't realize that, fine. You enjoy with your iphone. We will be keeping just an eye on it.


AFAIK, 90% of iphone users as of now bought iphone just to show that they have iphone and for nothing else. The other 10 % are hardcore fanboys who again want to show off another apple product.

@@arya, it's okay man. You can keep dreaming of BMW's and Apple. We will rather select what is worth the money and live in WORLD OF CHOICE AND REALITY.


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> Yes, but the whole analogy is not so correct. Let me explain you with an example:
> 
> Person X did 1000 kms in one month in his new car. Owing to this, he decides to use his car less for the next month (say for 300-400 kms). With this plan in place, he can control how much he spends monthly on the car.
> 
> Possible with iphone ?


In India, it is. Postpaid plans in India do not have upper or lower limits on voice minutes you get. You pay as much as you talk. Of course, there’s the fixed monthly rental, but then that’s like the insurance premium or the pollution check or the myriad other fixed recurring expenses in our car analogy.

As for data, well, the whole idea of unlimited Internet access is that they charge you a specified price every month and you get the freedom to use the Internet as much as you want. I prefer that, instead of constantly having to keep a tab on how much I’m using the Internet, lest I overuse it and am faced with a huge bill.

If you want that too, go for Airtel. If you’d rather have a data plan that charges you according to your usage (trust me, this doesn’t make much sense with an iPhone in your hand—ask goobimama), go for Vodafone.


You generally seem to have logical arguments, Pat, and I’m frankly quite surprised by your insistence on including the total cost of the subscription over the period of the contract with the price of the handset. I expect that sort of argument from someone like gx_saurav.


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

and BTW, WATCH OUT FOR ANDRIOD. 

It's not apple vs windows or apple vs symbian that the future of mobile computing is going to be.

It's going to be a three way battle for supremacy

ANDROID VS SYMBIAN VS WINDOWS.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 12, 2008)

have it your way then.

Lets take the case of an average guy in India who uses the lifetime plan, i.e., paying around 250 rupees for a period of 6 months, getting a certain amount of talk time and free incomming calls.

Such a person spends Rs. 1,000/- for 2 years for his Phone.

>>>perhaps he just bought the phone as an entertainment gadget
>>>perhaps there is another phone with him for making "real" calls
>>>perhaps there is some other reason with him
>>>perhaps he only needs to receive calls, not make them
>>>so don't ask why he does such a thing

taking that, if he bought the iPhone, his cost of ownership must be ~Rs. 10,000/- including 2 years subscription and taxes.

What would such a person do, if the only plans offered with the iPhone were those plans which are opted for only by either the uber rich or business guys ?

Not everyone has a phone bill of over Rs. 500 in India. People tend to use more cost effective means than phone calls today.

So a person trying to buy the iPhone as an entertainment gadget will be severely affected, don't you think ?


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

desiibond said:


> and BTW, WATCH OUT FOR ANDRIOD.
> 
> It's not apple vs windows or apple vs symbian that the future of mobile computing is going to be.
> 
> ...


LOL! Noted for future pwnage. 

If you seriously don’t see how huge the iPhone platform is going to be, even after seeing the applications that have appeared for it so far and the enormous developer interest it commands, you are delusional.


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

+1 for gautam, Moreover, for non-contract based plans, there are hundreds of phone to pick from Rs.1,000 to Rs.40,000.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 12, 2008)

desiibond said:


> ^^^ +1, Moreover, for non-contract based plans, there are hundreds of phone to pick from Rs.1,000 to Rs.40,000.


you just +1ed Aayush


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Android looks ugly.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> LOL! Noted for future pwnage.
> 
> If you seriously don’t see how huge the iPhone platform is going to be, even after seeing the applications that have appeared for it so far and the enormous developer interest it commands, you are delusional.


you are the one who is having delusional dreams about iPhone's god like future.

Please understand that iPhone is a single phone. ANDROID, Symbian, Windows, etc are used in thousands of phones. In all budget ranges.

You think everyone will buy only an iPhone ?

Even Tacinmosh has lots of developer intrest. Does that mean its REAL competition for other PC manufacturers like Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, etc ?



iMav said:


> Android looks ugly.


by default.

Like all linux distros, Android can also be themed.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

@metal & desi: you are forgetting that even if Bharti were to release the phone, hacked gray market ones will still be available.


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> So a person trying to buy the iPhone as an entertainment gadget will be severely affected, don't you think ?


Yeah, well, no one can prevent someone from their own stupidity. If they want it for its entertainment factor, the iPod touch is the device for them, not the iPhone.

And since you guys keep dragging it into the discussion, let me say it again: I absolutely do not approve of the fact that the iPhone will be a locked device and you’ll be forced to choose from a meager selection of tariff options and stick with the cellular operator for two years.

This system has so far not existed in India, thankfully, but the iPhone is set to change that. I had a little conversation with David Pogue about it, New York Times technology columnist and CBS news correspondent, and he agreed that the system was all about ripping customers off in the U.S.A. and that India was much better off.

That’s one of the reasons why I’m satisfied with my 1st gen iPhone, even though I paid a lot more for it than people who buy the locked iPhone 3G will. I get to use it with Airtel and Vodafone or any other carrier I choose and with any plan I want, both prepaid and postpaid.

There’s no point in throwing that point in again and again—I know it’s wrong.

------------------

As for those who allege that I bought the iPhone because I’m a fanboy, well, I appreciate your concern for me but would like to request you to mind your own respective business. Why I bought it is hardly of any concern to you! I’m secure in the knowledge that I purchased the best phone in the market and am completely satisfied with the value I’ve been able to derive from it. The only thing I regret is not having bought it sooner.


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> LOL! Noted for future pwnage.
> 
> If you seriously don’t see how huge the iPhone platform is going to be, even after seeing the applications that have appeared for it so far and the enormous developer interest it commands, you are delusional.


 
LOL. how big it mac platform. LOL. Many developers THINK of making apps for mac. Many developers think of porting their apps to mac. BUT......

please please stop dreaming. 

if you think few unknown-to-world developers showing apps on iphone is biggest,

Andriod include Google, HTC, Intel, Motorola, Qualcomm, T-Mobile, Sprint Nextel and NVIDIA. What do you call it?? Add to it the open source model compared to Apple's "Golden Cage".

And we all know how big Symbian is and how bit windows mobile is already.

Please due please, stop thinking that Apple will be the biggest just based on one illusional keynote by Mr. Steve.

Oh, I forgot, you are a mac fanboy. You can't come out of illusions. 

I feel pity for you.



iMav said:


> @metal & desi: you are forgetting that even if Bharti were to release the phone, hacked gray market ones will still be available.


 
yes. they will be but do you really think they are going to seel them for 8k?? NO. It will be still sold for some 15k+.



iMav said:


> Android looks ugly.


 

Of course, It's not even in Alpha


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> Please understand that iPhone is a single phone.


A single phone that has sold six million units at a price of $399 with a two-year contract in just six countries. A phone that’s been out in the market for only a year and already has the whole industry riled up, dropping prices, migrating to touchscreens, trying to better their user interface and come up with an “iPhone killer”. A phone that’s been the ultimate symbol for cool ever since its release and won pretty much every award in the tech industry. A phone that practically inspires lust in those who don’t have it.

Not to mention the fact that it’s surely the first (or second) of many more to come. It’s a given that the iPhone will branch out into more devices with different form factors. It’s been only in the market for one year and in only six countries so far. The feathers are only starting to appear right now. The day the wings sprout, nothing is going to stop it from taking to flight (and, for all we know, that day might have been 9 July 2008).

--------------

For those not in the loop, I would like to point out that the iPhone is the next iPod, not the next Mac (even though I would’ve preferred it the other way round). Why the Mac doesn’t have a good market share is not something you can sum up to one factor, so it would be better for you if you didn’t go there at all. It’s beyond you (or me, for that matter). But, mark my words, the iPhone is going to be bigger than the iPod.


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> As for those who allege that I bought the iPhone because I’m a fanboy, well, I appreciate your concern for me but would like to request you to mind your own respective business. Why I bought it is hardly of any concern to you! I’m secure in the knowledge that I purchased the best phone in the market and am completely satisfied with the value I’ve been able to derive from it. The only thing I regret is not having bought it sooner.


 
You still don't get it, don't you???

Everyone here thinks about the real costs and thinks of being aware of illusional price of the iphone and you (as always) thinks everyone else is illusional?? Please please grow up buddy. I really really pity you and your inability to come into the real world 


lol. Best phone in the market that can't record video, can't do even the basic things that thousands of phones can do and feeling secure.

Getting an iphone for $600 and even before it's first anniversary, it's available for $199. That's called security. LOL. ROFLMAO.

 Classic example of illusion. By any chance, did you meet that "master of illusions" guy from X-Men second part??


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> @metal & desi: you are forgetting that even if Bharti were to release the phone, hacked gray market ones will still be available.





aryayush said:


> Yeah, well, no one can prevent someone from their own stupidity. If they want it for its entertainment factor, the iPod touch is the device for them, not the iPhone.
> 
> And since you guys keep dragging it into the discussion, let me say it again: I absolutely do not approve of the fact that the iPhone will be a locked device and you’ll be forced to choose from a meager selection of tariff options and stick with the cellular operator for two years.
> 
> ...


I am glad that you too agree that this "contract" system from the west is one big evil.
I am hoping that there exist some laws in India to counter it, so I will read up on them later.

Anyway, from what you said about buying iPod touch instead, it lacks a lot of features. No camera, microphone or speaker. No bluetooth.  And it costs a lot more.

For the iPod touch's price, I can buy myself a laptop instead.


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> A single phone that has sold six million units at a price of $399 with a two-year contract in just six countries. A phone that’s been out in the market for only a year and already has the whole industry riled up, dropping prices, migrating to touchscreens, trying to better their user interface and come up with an “iPhone killer”. A phone that’s been the ultimate symbol for cool ever since its release and won pretty much every award in the tech industry. A phone that practically inspires lust in those who don’t have it.


 
DO you have slightest knowledge that for the last two quarters, Blackberry and Nokia outsold iphone in smartphone business???

Again, come out of illusions dude.

and that they do not have any touchscreen based smartphones )



iMav said:


> Android looks ugly.


 
*code.google.com/android/index.html

Look at 3D video.

OpenGL in-built.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> In India, it is. Postpaid plans in India do not have upper or lower limits on voice minutes you get. You pay as much as you talk. Of course, there’s the fixed monthly rental, but then that’s like the insurance premium or the pollution check or the myriad other fixed recurring expenses in our car analogy.
> 
> As for data, well, the whole idea of unlimited Internet access is that they charge you a specified price every month and you get the freedom to use the Internet as much as you want. I prefer that, instead of constantly having to keep a tab on how much I’m using the Internet, lest I overuse it and am faced with a huge bill.
> 
> ...



Well let me clear it! You normally DO NOT add it to the cost of the handset if the plans are reasonably priced, but when they are not, you have to consider that as well!


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## max_demon (Jun 12, 2008)

i remember a simillar thhread for iPhone Normal .

but i can see unlocked iPhone with no extra dime for 20k 16 GB version 599 usd .

the 3g one should be satisfied arnd 299$ 8 GB for unlocked one


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

desiibond said:


> DO you have slightest knowledge that for the last two quarters, Blackberry and Nokia outsold iphone in smartphone business???
> 
> Again, come out of illusions dude.
> 
> and that they do not have any touchscreen based smartphones )



Yes, but they were available in more countries than iphone! So direct comparison is not valid! And its true that iphone is something that all other manufacturers look up to , in terms of usability atleast!

So alright, its expensive, agreed! very expensive, agreed! But you should also honour the fact that it IS good!



max_demon said:


> i remember a simillar thhread for iPhone Normal .
> 
> but i can see unlocked iPhone with no extra dime for 20k 16 GB version 599 usd .
> 
> the 3g one should be satisfied arnd 299$ 8 GB for unlocked one



The point is that its not going to be possible to get an unlocked phone unless carriers themselves make them available (which will cost upwards of $700)


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## ray|raven (Jun 12, 2008)

By making the decision of reducing the price to 199$ , Apple has given the competetion only one choice , either they give atleast the very same features the iPhone does at atleast the same price or they loose their market share.

Add to that the hype the iPhone carries in the mobile market.
Soon , mobile companies are gonna have to slash prices.
We already saw an example for this, 
Sprint has decided the price of the Samsung Instinct to be 199$ , coz even at a cent more , people are gonna go for the iPhone.
Although , i personally dont think people will go for the Instinct at 199$.

Believe me , we are gonna see a price slash by Nokia , Samsung etc very soon.

This was A Swift and Bold strike by Apple , If you ask me.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> So alright, its expensive, agreed! very expensive, agreed! But you should also *honour the fact that it IS good*!


You sure you wanna discuss this?


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ Compare it with N82 or K850i or E51 or Blackberry Pearl.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> You sure you wanna discuss this?



Yes please


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

rayraven said:


> By making the decision of reducing the price to 199$ , Apple has given the competetion only one choice , either they give atleast the very same features the iPhone does at atleast the same price or they loose their market share.
> 
> Add to that the hype the iPhone carries in the mobile market.
> Soon , mobile companies are gonna have to slash prices.
> ...


 
Nokia and SE or Verizon and Vodafone are not going to act fast. They will wait till AT&T releases dataplans and then offer packages that easily beat the iphone + At & T dataplan.

I think you still do the breathtakingly supberb phone Xperia X2 from SE and the N76 and the cybershot C9xx series.


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## ray|raven (Jun 12, 2008)

^Desiibond

Yes , i remember , but honestly do you think the general public is gonna for other phones? There's too much hype in the market right now.

And , i agree with you , once the at&t plans come out , companies are gonna form packages, but we will see price slashes.

Like i said , even if they offer smthing at the same price of the iPhone,
the average customer is going to choose an iPhone over anything else.

I believe Apple is aiming for a large market, the price slash and releasing in all those countries at once say the quite clearly.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> Yes please


Please list 5 reasons why you feel that the iPhone is good.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> Please list 5 reasons why you feel that the iPhone is good.



Please list 5 reasons why you feel that the iPhone is NOT good.


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Don’t bother. It will be a rehashing of the following:
1. SMS;
2. Bluetooth;
3. Video recording; and
4. Copy-paste.



Pat said:


> Well let me clear it! You normally DO NOT add it to the cost of the handset if the plans are reasonably priced, but when they are not, you have to consider that as well!


On the AppleInsider forum, in one of the threads where they were discussing the iPhone and cribbing about the $10 increase, one guy who’d unlocked his iPhone, thrown away the AT&T SIM card and voided the warranty commented something in the lines of (not his exact words), “Dudes. You’re all such crybabies. I’m using EDGE on T-Mobile on my iPhone right now and it’s <expletive> slow and I pay <expletive> $30 per month to them, that too with a limit of 500MB. You guys get to buy an iPhone for $199, use <expletive> unlimited 3G for the same price and you’re cribbing about it. Get a life.” He used a lot of F-words, so his post was deleted (they do allow one or two though) but T-Mobile does have a plan with a 500MB limit for $30, so I guess he was being truthful (he is known for being an Apple fanboy though).

Also, Blackberry users have to pay $40 for EDGE/3G access and that too capped. So how are AT&T’s plans not reasonably priced? They used to be the most inexpensive at $20 and now that they have 3G, they brought the pricing more in line with the rest of the market ($20 was a special plan only for iPhone users).

I really don’t see anything wrong here. Of course, when Airtel and Vodafone’s plans are revealed, we’ll be able to judge it more appropriately.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

@Pat  typical ignorant attitude. Just saying that respect the fact that is good and then not being able to say why sure makes you highly intelligent and knowledgeable,


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> @Pat  typical ignorant attitude. Just saying that respect the fact that is good and then not being able to say why sure makes you highly intelligent and knowledgeable,



Lol! Everyone knows who is ignorant here! Also you were the one who wanted to start the discussion, right ?



iMav said:


> You sure you wanna discuss this?



Remember now ?


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> Lol! Everyone knows who is ignorant here! Also you were the one who wanted to start the discussion, right ?
> 
> Remember now ?


Seems like you quit even before beginning


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## desiibond (Jun 12, 2008)

net_addict said:


> I have a lot of respect for Steve Jobs , he is a smart guy and knows how to slowly get the market share.But the way some of you defend Apple , it just makes them look bad.Seriously!


 
That is something that they will never realize. 

Take Arya, he says PC's are waste and still buys PC's for his newly formed business. He himself is helpless on leaving apple out of the large scale. True fanboyism!!!!!!


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> Seems like you quit even before beginning



Lol! Yea right..To each his own 

Well slightly off-topic..But make a poll and ask how many people would buy an iphone if it was available for $199 plus taxes in India and with a nominal montly rental! Prolly the response there will get something inside your head


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

I thought I was supposed to respect something for being good, when the ones asking me to respect it don't even know what is good in it


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

desiibond said:


> Take Arya, he says PC's are waste and still buys PC's for his newly formed business. He himself is helpless on leaving apple out of the large scale. True fanboyism!!!!!!


I’d have thought fanboyism would’ve been to buy Macs even though PCs made more sense. Your sense of logic is at its best today, isn’t it?


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ I prolly know a 1000 things more than you do buddy. But I dont think its worth wasting my time doing all that for a person whos sole motive is to counter-attack every good thing/feature that iphone provides.

However, I have one solution for you. 

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/search.php
*www.google.com

Try to make sense of those two links that I provided and come back with your brickbats!


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## net_addict (Jun 12, 2008)

lol.. whr did my post go ?  (the one desiibond quoted)


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

You still haven't provided me with anything that makes the iPhone good and worth respecting.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ Any person with a little IQ would have figured out where to find what you are looking for buddy


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

*Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.

*Manan:* Why is it good?

*Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.

*Manan:* Why should I respect it?

*Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.

*Manan:* Any particular reason?

*Pat: *Go search for yourself, I don't know. It is good, respect it.

*Manan:* You don't know why I should respect it?

*Pat:* Go search for yourself. Just respect it.

*Manan:* Can you tell me why you said that I should respect it?

*Pat:* Shut up you ignorant fool, just respect the damn thing. Can't you understand? Just respect it. It is good. Respect it.

*Manan:* 
*
Pat:* You're an idiot, can't you just respect it?

*Manan:* Why?
*
Pat: *Search for yourself. Just respect it. It is good.

*Manan:* 

*Pat:* Respect it. It is good. What is wrong with you? Can't you just respect it. It is good.

*Manan:* Please don't kill me. I fear for my life. Don't kill me. But why should I respect it? What is good in it?

*Pat:* Respect it. It is good.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 12, 2008)

MHG you meant desktop environment. Thus complete customization of User Interface of phone using android.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> *Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.
> 
> *Manan:* Why is it good?
> 
> ...



Wow..you have really proved what a fool you are! And yes for the 1000th time, I will not waste my time for you and you know why (please refer to my earlier post)! If you were genuinely interested, you would have found out by now 

here goes another scenario:

*Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.

*Manan:* Why is it good?

Pat: A, B, C, D, E

*Manan: *
1: A is bullshit
2: Other fones can do B in a better way and can also do X,Y and Z, but iphone cant
3: C LMAO
4: D you are such an ignorant fanboy
4: E for expensive..When it is so expensive, you expect it to do that ATLEAST

*Pat:*
1: Blah Blah
2: Blah Blah
3: Blah Blah
4: Blah Blah
5: Blah Blah


*Manan:*
1: Blah Blah
2: Blah Blah
3: Blah Blah
4: Blah Blah
5: Blah Blah

*Pat:*
1: Blah Blah
2: Blah Blah
3: Blah Blah
4: Blah Blah
5: Blah Blah

It goes on and on, see that


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## net_addict (Jun 12, 2008)

^"Wow..you have really proved what a fool you are!"

 ~ suits you better !


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

net_addict said:


> ^"Wow..you have really proved what a fool you are!"
> 
> ~ suits you better !



I said he was a fool because he could have have invested his time in finding what he wanted instead of doing what he did!

Now please explain why I am also a fool if you dont want to end looking like a moron


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

Pat said:


> I said he was a fool because he could have have invested his time in finding what he wanted instead of doing what he did!
> 
> Now please explain why I am also a fool if you dont want to end looking like a moron


Because rather than typing the following, you could simply have stated 5 reasons why it is good. Which you still have not and gone ahead and typed the following  Forums are sure fun, you come across people who say something and curse someone for something then in the very next post in the very same thread go ahead and proudly do the same 

You say this:


Pat said:


> I said he was a fool because he could have have invested his time in finding what he wanted instead of doing what he did!


And do this:


Pat said:


> Wow..you have really proved what a fool you are! And yes for the 1000th time, I will not waste my time for you and you know why (please refer to my earlier post)! If you were genuinely interested, you would have found out by now
> 
> here goes another scenario:
> 
> ...



Should I assume that the iP{hone is good because blah blah blah blah. I already know that it is good because it is blah blah blah. I thought you have some other reasons  Sorry for troubling you. Please go ahead and do blah blah blah and blah on your iPhone. But I still don't understand why should I respect something that does blah blah and only blah. Can't it do what a phone is supposed to?

The iPhone is good, respect it. It is does blah blah blah and blah


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> Because rather than typing the following, you could simply have stated 5 reasons why it is good. Which you still have not and gone ahead and typed the following  Forums are sure fun, ou come across people who say something and curse someone for something then in the very next post in the very same thread go ahead and proudly do the same



Cursing and critizing upto a limit is ok, if you explain why you are saying so. Not senseless posts like "You are stupid"




> Should I assume that the iP{hone is good because blah blah blah blah. I already know that it is good because it is blah blah blah. I thought you have some other reasons  Sorry for troubling you. Please go ahead and do blah blah blah and blah on your iPhone. But I still don't understand why should I respect something that does blah blah and only blah. Can't it do what a phone is supposed to?



Sigh I give up! I forgot I was arguing with a typical spoon-fed MS fanboy who needs everything ready right on his plate 

So here you go:

1: UI
2: Screen
3: Community
4: Apps
5: Usability

Let the war begin


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## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2008)

U1 - Not the only good UI based phone now.

Screen - N82, Samsung phones, LG Viewty. . . , .

Community - Symbian & Windows Mobile has better community

Apps - Windows Mobile & Symbian again 

Usability - With only 5 features (example) any phone will be good. Isn't Nokia 1100 easiest to use then?


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## ctrl_alt_del (Jun 12, 2008)

A word of caution for everyone.

Name calling, no matter how harmless it might be, will be enough for summary deletion of the posts. No warnings. Even if on deletion the memebr persists with it, bannings and infractions will follow.

Keep the thread clean.


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

iMav said:


> *Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.
> 
> *Manan:* Why is it good?
> 
> ...


That sounds _very_ familiar…

Oh yeah, right.

You, my dear friend, are being sued for *blatant copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property*. My lawyers will be visiting you shortly. 


----------------------




Pat said:


> here goes another scenario:
> 
> *Pat:* iPhone is good, respect it.
> 
> ...


And it staaaaaarts… NOW!





gx_saurav said:


> U1 - Not the only good UI based phone now.
> 
> Screen - N82, Samsung phones, LG Viewty. . . , .
> 
> ...




Pat, that was quite the foresightedness you displayed there. 

If iMav had replied, he would at least have given the UI point to the iPhone, but not our Mr. gx_saurav here. He’s in a league of his own.


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## Faun (Jun 12, 2008)

lol...
sue me, sue you
is it me, or just you


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> You, my dear friend, are being sued for *blatant copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property*. My lawyers will be visiting you shortly.


 You forgot we are in India, here we get "inspired" and never copy.



a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> Also fanboy is different from a fan.


Even a 3 yr old knows that fans are put on the ceiling and run on electricity, a fanboy is a human being  I think you came to the wrong forum


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Don’t you* just love the quality of conversation that goes on at this forum some (most?) times? I’m absolutely in awe—the level of English, the misinterpretation and misrepresentation, the rampant tendency to spread FUD, the quibbles over utterly minor issues. If we all just step back and read what we are writing from the point of view of a third party, we’ll be laughing our heads off, trying to comprehend what inspired us to spout most of the bullshit that we publish on this forum (and on other venues of public expression).

It’s amusing and appalling at the same time, and yet it continues—and all of us are to blame. Carry on…


*You, as in the reader, not anyone in particular.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 12, 2008)

ok dude back to discussion.

iphone can be easily unlocked. so its effective price stays low.
unlocking in fact in EU laws is legal and also something that must be compulsorily done and locking is more towards illegal .. but they have not enforced any law, but people say that way.

Uunlocking is a very big business in Europe.

Everyday month then 500 people visiting my website get their Sony Ericsson phone unlocked for free.

Thus effective PRICE = 199$+100$ to Unlock.

Yes that's right UNLOCKING is very Costly. for iPhone Unlocking might even go as high as 200$ more then the phone itself.


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## preshit.net (Jun 12, 2008)

You'd still have to buy it with the contract and keep paying the provider, or pay a opt-out fee to them to cancel your contract. Thus far, there is no way to buy the iPhone without the contract.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 12, 2008)

Well actually buy the iphone. don't pay the AT&T.
UNLOCK IT.

did you mean you have to pay 199$+1000$ right when we buy the phone.
Can't we just buy only the iphone from Apple shop. Tell them that later you will activate the AT&T thing and contract or whatever it is for Apple iphone.


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## Pat (Jun 12, 2008)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> Well actually buy the iphone. don't pay the AT&T.
> UNLOCK IT.
> 
> did you mean you have to pay 199$+1000$ right when we buy the phone.
> Can't we just buy only the iphone from Apple shop. Tell them that later you will activate the AT&T thing and contract or whatever it is for Apple iphone.



Nope..It doesnt work that way this time around.The activation will be done in-store before you move out of the shop! So there is no way to get an unlocked iphone unless the carriers themselves give it! However, news are coming in that it would cost around $700 if you want an unlocked iphone!


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

No, that was on the first iPhone. For the iPhone 3G, you cannot walk out of the store before activating it and signing up for a two-year contract. That’s what subsidisation is all about and the handset itself is so cheap.


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 12, 2008)

LOL !! Then Apple has pawnd everyone this time.

If and only if mean if they have to Pay for full 2 year contract before they get their hands on it. I am uncertain that's why.

Well what i have to say is, Once the iPhone is the hands of a hacker, its sure to get unlocked. But he has already paid entire sum to carrier. No use unlocking then.

Well guys, If iPhone firmware can be updated then it can be unlocked. Don't ask how. 
Else i will start my Memory Architecture, Flash Loaders, Boot Scripts and ASM Programming, Brute Force, Breakin access, Locked CFS Loaders, Unlocked CFS etc Lectures.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:


> Well guys, If iPhone firmware can be updated then it can be unlocked. Don't ask how.
> Else i will start my Memory Architecture, Flash Loaders, Boot Scripts and ASM Programming, Brute Force, Breakin access, Locked CFS Loaders, Unlocked CFS etc Lectures.


Yeah so? What's your point, everyone knows any piece of software can be broken.


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## Pathik (Jun 12, 2008)

^^ We know that, dude. But what's the use unlocking it before 2 years after you have paid 2 year rentals.


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2008)

That's what I am wondering as to what is his point?


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Jun 12, 2008)

Iphone is an over speculated device ,surely not best of the Phones available  currently


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

Just to clarify, committing to a two-year contract doesn’t mean paying the rental for two years in advance. It only means that you sign a legally binding contract that you cannot surrender your connection within that timeframe. If you do, AT&T can and will crack down on you with a lawsuit. You’re still going to be paying the bills each month only though.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2008)

isn't that wrong & extorsion?


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## aryayush (Jun 12, 2008)

aryayush said:


> I absolutely do not approve of the fact that the iPhone will be a locked device and you’ll be forced to choose from a meager selection of tariff options and stick with the cellular operator for two years.
> 
> This system has so far not existed in India, thankfully, but the iPhone is set to change that. I had a little conversation with David Pogue about it, New York Times technology columnist and CBS news correspondent, and he agreed that the system was all about ripping customers off in the U.S.A. and that India was much better off.
> 
> ...


Start paying attention. It’s not very difficult.


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## dreamcatcher (Jun 13, 2008)

The iphone will come in a 1 year plan with airtel and vodaphone..and reportedly will cost as high as 32000...But i personally don't understand as to why the new iphone has been priced higher than its predecessor in spite of moving back to cheap plastic from alumunium..HSPDA and gps are new additions but Apple should not have compromised on the build quality IMO..thats their selling point and they should have stuck to it..Imagine an ipod with a plastic body..sucks big time.

The iphone has been released in France unlocked at 480 euroes...I would rather get myself an C702 and a ipod touch at that price..the best of both worlds..


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## mail2and (Jun 13, 2008)

gx_saurav said:


> isn't that wrong & extorsion?



That's how 95% of the connections sell in the UK/US/Continental Europe. While it's wrong, it's the norm in a lot of countries worldwide.

One of the main things that people don't realize is that sim-only tariffs in US/UK are not cheaper.. infact you get a very bad deal with them. For example, I pay £20/month for a sim only monthly contract, and get significantly lesser minutes and free texts than say the £30 iPhone plan that will have more minutes, and more texts; and will bundle in iPhone at a price of £99. 

Unlocked phones here are crazily expensive. The Nokia N95 sells at a price of around £300 unlocked. 

Infact, when you compare the locked Nokia N95 tariffs with the proposed iPhone 3G tariffs on o2, you'll find that they're very similar. T-mobile might have cheaper tariffs, but their service is so bad that it's not worth using it. Vodafone and Orange are on par with o2, and 3 is more expensive because of their superior network.


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## Pathik (Jun 13, 2008)

News: You can get the iPhone for $199, pay the 1st month $70 rental and then cancel your subscription for $175 and keep your 3G iPhone to unlock it later.
So the price becomes $445.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 13, 2008)

aryayush said:


> Don’t bother. It will be a rehashing of the following:
> 1. SMS;
> 2. Bluetooth;
> 3. Video recording; and
> ...


Don't you get the damn bitter truth ?

Not everyone want to buy the iPhone for use as a device similar to BlackBerry. When you are looking at a phone for 8k in India, most people buy it for telephone plans at around Rs. 500/- per month. And this damn contract business doesn't suit India and it should be BANNED by law.

iPhone has INTERNET CAPABILITIES AND BLUETOOTH(or is it wifi ?) for crying out loud. Its better to use those services by a standard modem adapter at home.

And Mobile phone internet plans also exist.

Airtel has a plan for unlimited internet access at 112kbps for Rs. 20/- a day or Rs. 120/- per week. This either over phone or via using phone as modem. Its such services which the standard Indian customer desires.

Not your blueberry or brownrose or what ever bullshit that exists. Those are not for the people who like to buy something at 10k.

Infact, people would have been VERY happy if the iPhone 8GB came unlocked with any plan being usable at around 15K. There would have been no objections, and only compliments to Apple for such a move.

Why The Fu*k do you think all aam admies in India will be willing to pay an a$$load for 3G access ?
*
If I am not much mistaken, Steve Jobs has this plan only for US and UK. I know he is a big genius. He is not the type of guy who is going to market iPhone the same way in India as in the US. He may charge us double but with Freedom. A price for Freedom is welcome.

Mr. Jobs' past activities, when he brought the company he was kicked out from which was going underground back to the top is enough to prove that he can't possibly make the Phone plan for 2 years cost five times the phone itself. At the most, there will be some standard stuff bundled for 2 years, where the user may even get to choose from a bunch of plans.

This bolded part I am considering true provided Steve Jobs still has his old brains with him.
*


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## goobimama (Jun 13, 2008)

>>>perhaps he just bought the phone as an entertainment gadget
>>>perhaps there is another phone with him for making "real" calls
>>>perhaps there is some other reason with him
>>>perhaps he only needs to receive calls, not make them
>>>so don't ask why he does such a thing

1. There is the iPod Touch which already serves this purpose.
2. What does this mean!
3. Which is?
4. That is something you just can't get out of a locked carrier situation. Thankfully we didn't have to go through with that. I hope in future they do sell unlocked iPhones for a higher price cause I sure will like to buy the next iteration.

And as for that Car vs Phone argument you guys have got going there, you must understand, there is no such thing as talktime efficiency. You either pay per minute or you don't. So whether you have a 1100 or an iPhone, the call costs are going to be the same, as are the subscription rates.

Also, the Indica is a crap car.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 13, 2008)

Pathik said:


> News: You can get the iPhone for $199, pay the 1st month $70 rental and then cancel your subscription for $175 and keep your 3G iPhone to unlock it later.
> So the price becomes $445.


Thanks for telling these guys what I knew all along pathik.

What I predicted was the news


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## iMav (Jun 13, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Also, the Indica is a crap car.


It is much better than Wagon R, Santro. Don't know about the rest. It is a really nice car. I own 1.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jun 13, 2008)

@aayush:

please never again compare blackberry services and say atnt scheme is worth it.
you are comparing an extremely overpriced thing to a slightly less extremely over priced thing, thats all.


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## goobimama (Jun 13, 2008)

@iMav: I don't know jack about cars


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jun 13, 2008)

Yes let me mention again.
LOCKING Phones it more towards illegal side of matters in many countries except US.

Its only that no LAW has been enforced by the respective Telecom Departments of the Respective Countries !

So if some one unlocks and breaks the contract, Neither Apple nor Operator can do anything.
Unless the Its a Real Contract, Like a bond, where you agree to pay all money or something like that.


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## aryayush (Jun 18, 2008)

*iPhone 3G: The "Total Cost of Ownership" Argument*

Read that.

Now, to put things into more of a perspective, consider the fact that the Nokia N800, which is basically just the MobileSafari part of the iPhone in a larger, fatter, uglier, non-Multi-touch powered and less user friendly package, retails for $300. Yup, that’s $300 just to be able to browse the Internet on-the-go. The iPhone does that better than the Nokia N800 and _so much more_ for $199.

It’s all about perspective.

P.S.: I would love nothing more than the iPhone to be freakin’ expensive and  for people to not buy it due to that. But it just ain’t so (much to my dismay).


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## x3060 (Jun 18, 2008)

am waiting for iphone to be launched cheaply , it would bring down the price of HTC diamond pro
and i may be able to upgrade from 3400...
am sticking with "windows mobile" for now.i really love the 3400.


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## Faun (Jun 18, 2008)

^^show me the monkey


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