# 'Nirbhaya' case convict interviewed in jail (in 2013)



## GhorMaanas (Mar 4, 2015)

_Excerpts_



> New Delhi: Delhi Police on Tuesday registered an FIR  in connection with a controversial interview of a convict in the  December 16 gang-rape case while also saying that it would move court to  seek a restrain order its airing.
> Although nobody has been named in the FIR, Delhi Police  Commissioner BS Bassi maintained that the "main actor" is the person who  has made these assertions and urged the media not to broadcast any  assertion which transgresses the domain of law.





> In the interview conducted by British filmmaker Leslee Udwin and BBC,  Mukesh Singh, the driver of the bus in which the 23-year-old  paramedical student was brutally gangraped by six men on December 16,  2012, said women who went out at night had only themselves to blame if  they attracted the attention of gangs of male molesters.
> 
> "A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he had said.  Singh also said that had the girl and her friend not tried to fight  back, the gang would not have inflicted the savage beating, which led to  her death later.




_Source

Dec 16 gang-rape convict interview: Delhi Police registers FIR | Zee News_

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timeline of events (not contained in the source-article):

1. permission sought by BBC from Tihar jail authorities & the MHA in June/July 2013
2. nod given by the Tihar jail DG Vimala Mehra and interview conducted in Oct. 2013
3. the MHA notified in Feb. 2014 (not clear to me yet if permission was sought from the MHA earlier or not)

the congress/UPA is jumping up and down asking the govt. to find out who gave the permission, but let's see the reaction when it will be clear after a day (a report has been sought by officials of the MHA by Mr. Rajnath Singh within 24hrs). 

the ex-DG of Tihar jail, Ms. Vimala Mehra has had her stint with controversies. there are mixed things told about her:

prison-reforms

curtailment of prisoners' rights

and else


about the interviewee, the less written the better. atleast *now* the President should act quick on his pending clemency application/appeal!


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## Mr.Kickass (Mar 4, 2015)

No amount of logic can ever explain the existence of society's scum *still* lying around, rotting in jail (what a way to waste resources)


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 4, 2015)

contrarily, there are some who can & would argue at length against the idea of _doing away_ with such scumbags; the arguments range from advocating 'harsher punishment by way of lifelong captivity than death', to 'humanism'.


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## warfreak (Mar 4, 2015)

"About 20 per cent of girls are good"

Wow he has statistics. Did he perform a survey of the girls he raped?!!

Scumbag Lowlife!


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## ashs1 (Mar 4, 2015)

why is this guy not hanged yet ?? he has been accussed of the crime..he has been found guilty..this just shows how weak our judicial system is.  

I can't imagine the mental agony that nirbhaya's parents are going through..
.

Hopefully, this sick confession fastracks the sentencing.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 4, 2015)

i think in the excitement at the prospect of appearing on TV he got all 'swelled up', shooting squalor from his upper drainhole at every opportunity.


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## kg11sgbg (Mar 4, 2015)

If the so called Judiciary system is weak enough to kill these scumbags,why not castrate and make them impotent for life long.....?????????????????


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## $hadow (Mar 4, 2015)

Just do it like it is done in other countries. And I would say do those things in front of the public to make other fear of what could happen if they did such a ill thing.


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## meet6600 (Mar 4, 2015)

Also point to note is the statements of lawyers who are defending this scumbag which are present just next to this article in TOI. Indian Judicial System, I have no words....


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## meet6600 (Mar 4, 2015)

"Defence lawyers blame Nirbhaya"
Heading Page 3. Feeling ridiculous and depressed to know how people think of women even in legislation.


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## Vyom (Mar 4, 2015)

What are your views on BBC about to show the documentary in few hours? Why is it such a big deal? Is BBC endorsing rapes by showing the guy's interview?
On the contrary I believe the documentary would just be trying to see the phycology of the rapist. Why such huge cries by female protesters?


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## icebags (Mar 4, 2015)

i dont really understand what is the rage over this interview. committed the baddest of crimes does not mean they have no right to talk or express their thought.

even in china, some death row inmates get chance to give their interview a week or two before they are hanged or shot, some say they regret their action, some say they don't. and i think they broadcast these interviews in their national channels once in a while.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 4, 2015)

- govt. is saying that the permission for documentary-filming was sought on the pretense of doing 'research', and that conditions were violated (not clear yet); the Parliament had *urged* BBC y'day not to broadcast it (a diplomatic msg hidden?!)

- women and women's rights group, etc. are putting forth the argument that the broadcast of the interview on public-scale would reinforce the mindset of (budding) psychopaths watching the film. on one account, i can agree that atleast one idea that mukesh spouts, that 'now rapists won't leave girls alive after committing the crime as they would not risk being arrested by not doing that' can be dangerous to show, and atleast that could've been withheld. but too late now. 

P.S. - a funny thing amidst all this; these women and groups who cry hoarse on allowing freedom of this-and-that and that freedom should be/is absolute, something seems to be coming full circle to them, although they may not be so much aware of it yet amidst the furore.

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meanwhile:

*vine.co/v/O0pOQ0VJbEw


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## icebags (Mar 4, 2015)

GhorMaanas said:


> - govt. is saying that the permission for documentary-filming was sought on the pretense of doing 'research', and that conditions were violated (not clear yet); the Parliament had *urged* BBC y'day not to broadcast it (a diplomatic msg hidden?!)
> 
> - women and women's rights group, etc. are putting forth the argument that the broadcast of the interview on public-scale would reinforce the mindset of (budding) psychopaths watching the film. on one account, i can agree that atleast one idea that mukesh spouts, that 'now rapists won't leave girls alive after committing the crime; they would not want to be arrested' can be dangerous to show, and atleast that could've been withheld. but too late now.
> 
> P.S. - a funny thing amidst all this; these women and groups who cry hoarse on allowing freedom of this-and-that and that freedom should be/is absolute, something seems to be coming full circle to them, although they may not be so much aware of it yet amidst the furore.



often we forget price of Freedom is not Free. When we want to have freedom, we are supposed to give it as well.

in a democratic world, everybody has right to speak, as much as the society has the right to punish the wrong doers.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 5, 2015)

for undertrials, such rights could be reserved or withheld. dont know what the judiciary & the jail manuals prescribe on this.
apparently, the govt. is investigating (or has investigated) why was the permission given, and the police is investigating whether the content is unlawful or not. although the cuckoo has flown away now! work may be on to prohibit broadcast in India, on the net too. should be clear tomorrow.
conditional permission is/was allowed, but not yet clear what those conditions were. seems again that it was sought deceptively.

some good things that could come out from the broadcast of the documentary are, perhaps it will help mobilise and strengthen public and govt. opinion on this issue, bring more awareness, expedite the processing of the clemency plea & hasten the due process of punishment.


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## bikramjitkar (Mar 5, 2015)

And yet again, the people of this country miss the forest for the bushes. The real outrage should be over the fact that this piece of **** is still alive on our tax money for over a year.


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## $hadow (Mar 5, 2015)

We pay for this taxes for this crap. I mean put our taxes to better use like starting early preparation for the diseases such as swine flu.


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## Desmond (Mar 5, 2015)

BBC's Documentary "India's Daughter"'s creator is forced to leave India fearing arrest because the government believes that it is some form of international defamation conspiracy.

Indiaâ€™s Daughter: BBC brings forward airing of Delhi rape documentary | Media | The Guardian


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 5, 2015)

had thought that it will hasten the process of punishment in the judiciary and calls for swift justice in such cases and harsh laws/punishment would echo resoundingly, but for now, seems a cockerel-chase is on.


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## Desmond (Mar 5, 2015)

The documentary is banned in India now. They are trying to get it banned everywhere else as well. Youtube has already blocked it on courts order.

*i.imgur.com/YVLUtd0.jpg


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

For a country like britain that includes contributions from drugs and prostitutes into its gdp and has numerous cases of pedophiles from high background (and a few with royal connections) exploiting orphans, their people sure huff and puff a lot about other societies, especially those who rank 100 something in world rape statistics based on per 1000 persons.


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## Desmond (Mar 5, 2015)

That may well be the case. But there are documentaries highlighting those cases.

But why stop this documentary? Does the documentary lie about the situation here?


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

What documentaries? The case where one duke and his mighty rich friends exploited preteen girls and boys only came to light due to work by a lone reporter. Before that, the social service chief and others responsible for safety of orphans had reached high positions like mayors ( a powerful position in britain ) and what not. And no documentaries will ever see the day of light due to powerful pedophiles. On the other hand numerous, and i really mean sickening no of cases with pakistani men have come to light in last 2 years. When reported in media like guardian or telegraph, they are always referred to as 'South Asian Men' therefore lumping together hard working indians with those *******s.Police does nothing because they fear being called racists.

You don't see the big picture. The aim of british and other west countries, especially scandivanian, is nothing but to put down India and belittle its achievements. For eg, when we sent that mars satellite and chandrayaan, the only thing that occupied the minds and tv's in those countries was concern about the poor in india and from now on it will include fake concern about rape victims and India's misplaced concentration on technology, etc. 

As for ngo's here, they are all for creating image about india as rape capital of world so they can get more funds and awards from the west who are still carrying the white men's burden.

*Rape in India – Why it becomes a worldwide story*

Rape in India â€“ Why it becomes a worldwide story


> Rape is a terrible crime, a case where the victims are overwhelmingly women and the perpetrators overwhelmingly men. Every rape carries with it a personal story of trauma. To use statistics to speak about rape appears to dehumanize it into a number. Yet, when the mainstream news media is branding India into a “rape capital”, it is worth a pause. *Maria Wirth, a German émigré to India wrote on how she found German TV disproportionately reporting a rape incident in far-away India, while a local rape was a small inside item. Similarly, a rape in a Cab in New Delhi made it all the way into the New York Times while an estimated 700 rapes on that day in the US merited no mention. *This begs the question—is disproportionate coverage of rape in India justified? Or is it driven by an agenda?First, a look at the numbers. If we go by reported rape statistics, India has one of the lowest rates of rape in the world, sensationalist coverage notwithstanding. Here are the top 15 countries of the world by rapes per 100,000 people. *We find that South Africa tops the chart in per capita rapes and Australia and the United States are in the top fifteen. (Note some of this data is from different years, based on available statistics. )If we just use the year 2010, the United States in the top 10 countries in the number of rapes. So is Sweden, right up there with Suriname. In Islamic countries under-reporting is a severe problem because of the difficulty of getting rape convictions in Islamic law. While the US is among the top countries in reported rape, still a majority (60%) of sexual assaults go unreported. Based on data collected by the US organization RAINN, factoring in unreported rapes, only 3% of rapists in the US would spend even one day in prison.*
> 
> While low conviction rates and the difficulty of getting justice is given as one reason for low reporting of rapes in India, convictions rates are fairly low worldwide. The rate of rape conviction in the UK is only 6.5 percent in England and Wales, with a shocking low of 2.9% in Scotland. With such a low chance of conviction, women would be increasingly reluctant to go through the trauma of a rape trial and reporting rates would be depressed. India, by contrast, has a significantly higher rape conviction rate. While many countries, including UK and France, have shown a decline in rape conviction rate, India’s rate, despite a decline, is still several times higher than the UK at 26.4% with Delhi having a whopping 41.5% rape conviction rate, despite India’s notoriously inefficient justice system. A high chance of conviction would also have a positive affect on higher reporting. Thus the comparison of reported rape statistics cannot be dismissed out of hand, even though there are likely differences in reporting rates across countries. Given that caveat, let us see where India stand in reported rapes per capita in the table where the US is in the top 15.If not, we have to accept that the rank in this table, at least to some extent, reflects the actual rape rate. *Along with India, Buddhist Japan and Hindu Nepal also find themselves near the bottom of the list.Why then this huge preoccupation with rapes in India in Western media and the Indian media echo box. A clue is found on this website a eiloftearsmovie.com. This is a Christian evangelical site, releasing a major film on “A Veil of Tears,” the plight of Indian women. The movie starts by dramatic accounts of the Delhi gangrape and starts to list a litany of ills in the “persecution” of India women and how it was important to save them. The agenda? The website is clear. They are explicitly marketing the movie to Church groups to collect funds and their partner is “Gospel for Asia.*”“While the film, “Veil of Tears”, brings into focus the truth behind a dark reality existing in the world today, we are excited to highlight the hope being given to countless millions of women each day through the work and ministry of Gospel for Asia…We invite you to take a moment to learn more about the mission of Gospel for Asia and how you can be a part of our movement to rescue generations of women from persecution and rejection and into the hope of Jesus Christ.”The plight of Indian women is a marketing tool for the Global evangelical movement, that are shown explicitly using this to ask for money.Indian itself is the biggest target country in the Joshua Project, aimed at converting people between the 10-40 parallels. The missionary work is done on a war footing with detailed statistics about “unreached people,” every city and village with tribe and caste affiliations. India is the biggest and softest target. Most Islamic countries limit Christian missionaries, as does China. India is a unique place with the highest number of people to convert, the easiest access and the most naivete about the conversion war.Can this influence news reporting? As I point out in my research into the Conversion War, we have to remember the size of the money involved. *The one-year revenue of institutionalized Christianity is estimated to be $260 billion dollars (2001) figures. About a fifth of this, $47 billion, are allocated to global mission work every year.*
> 
> A $250 billion corporate force with the support of the most powerful countries on the planet can create a lot of influence. People in India are especially susceptible to regarding Christianity as a benign force and the Christian narrative dominates the media. The demonization of India for rapes is part of this propaganda war. *US missionaries are the biggest funders of evangelical activities in India and are pushing the narrative that Christianization is necessary to “save” Indian women from the “oppressive native culture.” Unfortunately Indian media is complicit in this global campaign. This when the US has 16 times the rape rate of India. *Even if we consider that the actual Indian rape rate is 4 times what is reported, and the US reports every rape (research indicates it barely reports half), women in the US would still be 4 times more likely to be raped that in India. Whose culture needs saving? Why is the rape rate in Christian US so high? These are questions worth exploring. It is the Indian media and television channels that are part of the exploitation of this issue for sensationalist coverage. They have not been part of the solution. Rather the media’s own role in commoditization of women’s bodies for selling products, newspapers and channels should be under the scanner.



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*The Nirbhaya Documentary - as always, follow the money*

*www.moneylife.in/article/the-nirbhaya-documentary---as-always-follow-the-money/40736.html


> Over the last few days, I have been amongst the most vociferous on social media, objecting to the public airing in India of the Nirbhaya documentary made by my ex-colleague from NDTV, Dibang, and his co-Producer, Leslee Udwin from the UK. Why am I, otherwise an absolute votary of free speech, against this documentary?
> 
> 1) The little I have seen, and the feedback I have got from those who have seen it, leads me to believe that the rapist has been depicted as a braggart out to leave his message to the other hoodlums on the street. One reason for this is that death by hanging in popular Indian movies, lore tends to glorify it as a means of expression against political and colonial repression, and that needs to be corrected.
> 
> ...


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## Faun (Mar 5, 2015)

It's still getting spread like wildfire
[YOUTUBE]1XqzHvhhLZY[/YOUTUBE]

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gemini90 said:


> You don't see the big picture. The aim of british and other west countries, especially scandivanian, is nothing but to put down India and belittle its achievements. For eg, when we sent that mars satellite and chandrayaan, the only thing that occupied the minds and tv's in those countries was concern about the poor in india and from now on it will include fake concern about rape victims and India's misplaced concentration on technology, etc.



Calm your mustache, dude.


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

What have i said that reflects the need to calm down? It is not like i am denying that a situation exists in india.

Rather I would say that India has a habit of self flagellation and taking unnecessary advice from those who themselves don't have a leg to stand on.


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## $hadow (Mar 5, 2015)

Shame on BBC for releasing this.


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## Faun (Mar 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> What have i said that reflects the need to calm down? Rather I would say that India has a habit of self flagellation and taking unnecessary advice from those who themselves don't have a leg to stand on.



You are shooting the messenger here. Just because they don't have a leg to stand upon doesn't nullify what happened. It's not about self flagellation or belittling us.

Are you so much pained by them demeaning our country at every milestone and biting back at every opportunity they can steal ? Calm you mustache then.


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

And you don't seem to care about their motive here which is most certainly not the welfare of rape victims and especially not the victim in this case.

*December 16 gangrape victim's father objects to documentary*

December 16 gang-rape victim's father objects to daughter's name being made public - The Times of India


> The family of Delhi gangrape victim has taken a strong exception to making public of their daughter's name in the BBC documentary and has warned of taking legal action in this connection.
> 
> "Despite clearly telling them not to make the name and photo of our daughter public, they have gone ahead with it and this is not right.. we will take legal action against this", the father of the victim told PTI.
> 
> ...



*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_T3PnHUoAA5E44.jpg:large

_She actually branded 'all' Indian males as potential rapists._ ( at 1 hour 40 min)

BBC Radio 4 - Today, 05/03/2015

starting 1hr 35 min. She starts by saying - how glad she is to be back safely to Britain. AS IF SHE WAS GOING TO BE RAPED MIDAIR? Seriously.

*Why this focus on 'rapes in India' by world media? - Maria Wirth*

*mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/why-this-focus-on-rapes-in-india-by-world-media/


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## Faun (Mar 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> And you don't seem to care about their motive here which is most certainly not the welfare of rape victims and especially not the victim in this case.
> 
> *December 16 gangrape victim's father objects to documentary*
> 
> ...



At 1hr 35min I don't see any relevance at all. Perhaps you got another link ?

She is glad to be back. You don't have to stretch the hyperbole here.

Even then, the documentary is important. It does happen, the kind of attitude prevalent. Keeping silent will not magically transform the society.


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

And i said this before in previous posts that i agree a situation does exist in india. And i also said we don't need advice from others on how to deal with this situation whose only motive is to shoot at us in the garb of purest morality. They just want to add oil to fire.


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## Faun (Mar 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> And i said this before in previous posts that i agree a situation does exist in india. And i also said we don't need advice from others on how to deal with this situation whose only motive is to shoot at us in the garb of purest morality. They just want to add oil to fire.



An old story:

"It’s the wind that is really moving," stated the first disciple.
"No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second.
A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them.
"Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is mind that moves."


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

You mean to say that i am imagining things and prescribing motives to the other party, right? If so, I have nothing further to add in reply to you  after previous posts.


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## Faun (Mar 5, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> You mean to say that i am imagining things and prescribing motives to the other party, right? If so, I have nothing further to add in reply to you  after previous posts.



There is enough oil to fuel the fire. The point is that can you control the fire within you from burning the house down due to catalyst thrown in ?


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## Flash (Mar 5, 2015)

*i.imgur.com/Rr3JYN7.jpg

"Indian Men"?


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## gemini90 (Mar 5, 2015)

^^ See this is what i have been talking about since long on this thread. The same case as lumping Indians with pedophiles pakistani men in Britain under the term 'South Asian Men'.

It was imperative to show the documentary both unedited and edited to victim's father. And it was imperative to take written permission before the shooting and a no-objection certificate after the shooting. Also it was imperative for the documentary makers to ensure that the victim's family has full access to a legal aid. 

As that link about the victim's father objecting to the documentary shows all of the above was not followed and hence the documentary itself is illegal.

*WHY THIS FOCUS ON ’RAPES IN INDIA’ BY WORLD MEDIA?* - Maria Wirth

*mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/why-this-focus-on-rapes-in-india-by-world-media/


> Judging from media reports, India has a BIG problem with rape. No other country seems to come even close. All over the globe “another rape in India” is reported ever so often.  On my last visit to Germany, I jolted when on 27. December 2013 the most popular TV news ended with “another gang rape in India”. It was one of only five topics of the 15 minutes broadcast.
> 
> Even my sister wondered how a gang rape in India made it to the main news in Germany. That same day in a conservative estimate, over a thousand rapes would have been committed all over the world.  In the USA some 200, in South Africa some 170. In the western cities, the statistics show a high percentage, much higher than in India. Many of those rapes would have been gang rapes. In many cases, the girl or woman would have been killed. Behind each of those statistical figures are painful, heartrending stories. If we knew what is happening at this very moment on this earth – how much pain humans inflict on other humans and on animals – we could not bear it.  With so much crime happening everywhere, why is India being singled out and shamed with “another gang rape”, when it actually has only a fraction of the crimes other countries have in relative numbers? In absolute numbers of course it would be no surprise if India with her huge population of four times the size of the United States were number one apart from China. Even then it is not number one. USA is.
> 
> ...


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## Flash (Mar 6, 2015)

^ I agree with how the world is trying to paint India as a "Rape-prone" country as if India is the only place in the world where rape crimes are high. It's the bizarre mindset of a person which is responsible for a rape, and not his nationality or ethnicity. India stands 3rd among the world, yet no one questioned about the Big-Brother that why the rapes are so high there, even when they're are so advanced in everything. 

*i.imgur.com/Twb4vUb.png

Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is India the Rape Capital of the World? | MORE Magazine


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 6, 2015)

hmm. so the accusation of seeking permission for film-making on the pretense of 'research' is true. although i still hope that something good would come out of this for our country (a slight jolt to our mindset, or just anything, though i may still be expecting too much), but IMO not taking the family's permission, or the father's protest should've be a good reason (an ethical one should i say) to halt the broadcast. but the BBC also played cunningly and pre-poned the telecast well before the slated release-date! though now the damage has been done, and may be we could read about diplomatic arm-twisting measures being taken by the govt. now. unsure. thanks  @gemini90  for sharing the links and info!

P.S. - Ms. Leslie is thanking her stars for being 'safe' back to home, while many foreigners are here busy in Holi celebrations, getting all coloured up in gulaal! poor fellows! i hope Ms. Leslie is praying for them?!


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

About that info about 2 rapists football players article in MORE magazine, it is not for nothing that the term 'Campus Rape' is prevalent in USA which leads the pack.

Campus rape: A guide to the debate that’s roiling American universities – Quartz

  [MENTION=120775]GhorMaanas[/MENTION] It's nothing worth mentioning. I just wanted to clear up the doubts people seem to have about the relevance and motives behind the documentary.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 6, 2015)

alright. still, appreciate it; those are informative.

something from my side.
i had come across a BBC report on rapes and rape-victims in pakistan a few days back. had saved the link in order to show it to a chest-thumping paki if i ever come across one online and if it becomes difficult to hold back at his contemptuous slander. these people take joy in sermonising us that we are a country of rapes and theirs is a 'heaven-on-earth'. 

BBC News - Pakistan victim seeks justice after online gang rape video


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## vkl (Mar 6, 2015)

While India isn't perfect but rape sensationalism is overdone.Sheer numbers won't tell much.
Rape rate,density would tell somewhat better.And by those India won't come anywhere close but again statistics can't show much really.
Though there are lot of other factors but based on pure stats India is nowhere close to be the rape capital of the world as hyped.India might come at about top 100 list  won't make it to top 50.Nowhere close to US,UK,Sweden etc. 
In India Marital rape is not prosecuted under normal ordinances rather it comes under domestic violence,needs to be changed.

The BBC and Islam: Let the children be raped - The Commentator
I find hypocrisy with BBC in many of their things.

Anyway,this one seems a good read: India's Daughter: We need to go beyond BBC's nauseating moralising - Firstpost



GhorMaanas said:


> alright. still, appreciate it; those are informative.
> 
> something from my side.
> i had come across a BBC report on rapes and rape-victims in pakistan a few days back. had saved the link in order to show it to a chest-thumping paki if i ever come across one online and if it becomes difficult to hold back at his contemptuous slander. these people take joy in sermonising us that we are a country of rapes and theirs is a 'heaven-on-earth'.
> ...



Don't even bring Pakistan.Not worth it. 
Status of women is far far poor there.  Stupid laws over the years.More here *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudood_Ordinances


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

And apparently the permission was given by minister of state RPN Singh (UPA) in 2013 who is husband of Sonia Singh (NDTV).  And I won't be surprised if this documentary wins award under best documentary feature in oscars. You know, to really reinforce the stereotype of Indian males as a bunch of female hating uncivilized natives whose sole motive in life is to rape the fair skinned daughter of the civilized west.

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*i.imgur.com/nxvVO7T.png



> This technique of influencing the viewers is called "subliminal messages".This is also shown in famous TV series Columbo in the episode "Double exposure"


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## Faun (Mar 6, 2015)

[MENTION=303807]gemini90[/MENTION]

Request you to avoid the sensational writing.


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## Flash (Mar 6, 2015)

Nirbhaya's father now objects to documentary 'India's Daughter' - IBNLive


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## ashs1 (Mar 6, 2015)

Some news channel report that the parents are fine with the documentary. Some are reporting that they object.. What is the truth???

And i feel the govt. Is partially responsible because by banning the documentary, they have caused much more publicity..
I saw the documentary about the sad incident.. Even after 2 years, it shocks me to the core after seeing the report..
The controversial statements by the defence lawyers in the video is gonna cause a lot of unrest..


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] which one of my post comprises of sensationalist writing?

And not to mention that this documentary and the reaction to it provides perfect cover to the rapists to claim mistrial since the case is still sub-judice.

    [MENTION=173432]ashs1[/MENTION] What exactly did you expect from such *******s who committed that horrible crime? That they would be repentant? This is a serious question because a few of my friends are now of the view that a large section of the socirty holds such sick views. This is the kind of stereotyping that sponsors are craving for. Just assemble bunch of interview who share the same sick view then it will give an impression that everyone thinks that way.


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## Faun (Mar 6, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] which one of my post comprises of sensationalist writing?


 

Here is what amounts to sensationalism. 



> And I won't be surprised if this documentary wins award under best documentary feature in oscars. You know, to really reinforce the stereotype of Indian males as a bunch of female hating uncivilized natives whose sole motive in life is to rape the fair skinned daughter of the civilized west.






gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=173432]ashs1[/MENTION] What exactly did you expect from such *******s who committed that horrible crime? That they would be repentant? This is a serious question because a few of my friends are now of the view that a large section of the socirty holds such sick views. This is the kind of stereotyping that sponsors are craving for. Just assemble bunch of interview who share the same sick view then it will give an impression that everyone thinks that way.


A good section of society indeed think the same way. Position and education doesn't matter. Seen a lot in corporate world too. And even so more prevalent in villages.

If you tell what the rapist said without informing that it was said by the rapist, you will see people agreeing without flinching. And then let them know that a rapist said that, see the hypocrisy then ? It sure needs to be done to open those eyes which are not blindly shut.

Did you watch the documentary ?


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] I would call that sensationalism if such things had not happened before. But this stereotyping has been going on for long. Ever read E.M. Forrestors 'A Passage to India'. I saw the movie version on HBO. Won 2 oscars. Go ahead and see what I am talking about on imdb. Then there is the Slumdog millionaire which won oscars. That too stereotyped India and the same year when we launched Chandrayaan.

As for your 2nd conviction about this being a cultural problem, Consider some basic logic...Indian rape statistics are FAR, FAR lower than the West. The West claims this is due to under-reporting of rapes in India i.e. rape culture in India.

Now - if what the West says is right, then shouldn't it be logical that the "cultural" rape problem among Indians would show up in statistics among Indians settled abroad ? India has the second largest number of overseas migrants in the world (25 Million) - so the data points are certainly not unsubstantial. Morover, we have data points from across castes. While the US sees a lot of inward migration from the highest castes, the UK / Canada / Australia see a lot of emigration from middle castes - and historically lower castes / Dalits were taken across as labourers to work by the British in their plantations in Malaysia, Mauritius, Fiji, South Africa....

In each of these places - if I am not wrong, Indians (esp Hindus / Sikhs) tend to far outperform not just Blacks but also local White populations in terms of low incidence of criminal convictions.


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## Faun (Mar 6, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] I would call that sensationalism if such things had not happened before. But this stereotyping has been going on for long. Ever read E.M. Forrestors 'A Passage to India'. I saw the movie version on HBO. Won 2 oscars. Go ahead and see what I am talking about on imdb. Then there is the Slumdog millionaire which won oscars. That too stereotyped India and the same year when we launched Chandrayaan.
> 
> As for your 2nd conviction about this being a cultural problem, Consider some basic logic...Indian rape statistics are FAR, FAR lower than the West. The West claims this is due to under-reporting of rapes in India i.e. rape culture in India.
> 
> ...



Dude, move out of India and interact with people. Not everyone judge you by the news headlines. Those who are biased in their views will ruminate over these news headlines and vomit all over you. Others will simply shrug off because they know better from their interactions. It's a different thing if that interaction was pleasant or not.

I have seen an affinity for cheap food among Indians. I heard someone from India settled abroad recommending a food joint to someone by saying that the food was "very cheap" there. The person replied - "Is it healthy ?". Obviously she wasn't looking for cheap food. It matters how you interact with people in person.

Don't harbor the resentment in you. Utilize your time in something useful. You don't want to look back and see all the time that you wasted on this.

If I go to another country. I won't risk doing anything illegal. A localite will be far more likely to commit a crime compared to me. That goes even if I get green card.


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

What is with these sermons? Counter properly if you can.


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## Faun (Mar 6, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> What is with these sermons? Counter properly if you can.



It's not sermon. I know where you are coming from because I was once there too. Rest is up to you.


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

Again sermonizing. If life has anything to teach me, I will willingly internalize those lessons. But you don't need to get all philosophical.


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## Vyom (Mar 6, 2015)

Calm down bros... before it turns ugly.

Note: Everyone have a right to write their views, without derogatory terms.


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## Desmond (Mar 6, 2015)

shitindianrapistssay

shitindianrapistssay - Album on Imgur


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

Got no words to describe the hate this hag has for india.

*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_ZeIRIUcAEDTfx.jpg:large


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## Desmond (Mar 6, 2015)

Dude, don't compare the Bollywood tripe to Indian culture. They are not synonymous.

Also, Bollywood does objectify women.

Calling it pornography is an overstatement though.


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## gemini90 (Mar 6, 2015)

I agree that bollywood objectify woman especially since 90's but the way she speaks about it, seems that she just wants to find or make up faults to beat india with. That as if bollywood is a microcosm of our society.
 [MENTION=5007]DeSmOnD dAvId[/MENTION] And where the hell did i compare bollywood with indian society? She is the one who is using bollywood as a mirror to our society at large.


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## Desmond (Mar 6, 2015)

I just downloaded the documentary. Can comment properly only once I finish watching it. But I think that this needs to be out there so that we people can see the reflection of the society that we live in.


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## Desmond (Mar 6, 2015)

I didn't say that YOU are comparing. I meant that in context that one should not compare Bollywood to Indian society.

However Bollywood is so popular here that both are seen as one and the same.


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## Flash (Mar 6, 2015)

Me too yet to watch the documentary. 
Did the documentary anywhere has traces of how the "people of India" erupted and stood together on the delhi incident?


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## Desmond (Mar 6, 2015)

Flash said:


> Me too yet to watch the documentary.
> Did the documentary anywhere has traces of how the "people of India" erupted and stood together on the delhi incident?


Yes it does. There is footage in the beginning about it. Haven't seen full yet.


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## Faun (Mar 6, 2015)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I didn't say that YOU are comparing. I meant that in context that one should not compare Bollywood to Indian society.
> 
> However Bollywood is so popular here that both are seen as one and the same.



Documentary is anything but sensationalism. Shows the contrast between few good people and few deranged thinkers in India.

As for Bollywood's influence:
One can see "Road ka Raaja" crossing road at elephant's pace regardless of any oncoming traffic. Doesn't take a moment to realize what inspires this. 

Influence of Bollywood on teens and society cannot be overlooked. Few people literally try to emulate their heroes. Poor mindset and Bollywood (a huge part of it), a good recipe for unruly behaviors.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 6, 2015)

the documentary apart, its somehow getting (increasingly) darkly funny to read the maker's comments. i suspect whether she really holds such views, or is spouting vitriol 'artificially', more so since the country took a strong objection to their team's trickery, a reaction that they hadn't anticipated, and are both confused & miffed now; something like being caught off-guard and don't know how to react and throwing blind punches in the air and losing all sense & composure. she is increasingly climbing to higher moral grounds, something i hope even atleast some people in the west would be seeing through & realising.

- - - Updated - - -



Faun said:


> As for Bollywood's influence:
> One can see "Road ka Raaja" crossing road at elephant's pace regardless of any oncoming traffic. Doesn't take a moment to realize what inspires this.



hehe. this one!   
i had a nice caricature on it. the pedestrian thinks that the gaadiwaala would anyway slow down for him, why bother and exert yourself to cross the road quickly, and moves in the gait of a typical tollywood/bollywood superstud even occasionally throwing back hero or _wheelan_waale glances, while the vehicle-driver thinks that the pedestrian would move away quickly so that he won't have to exert himself in pressing the brake, clutch, pull the gearstick, press the accelerator & break the rhythm in his 'fast & furious' style. on the contrary, i have seen people speeding up at some places where people cross! and bikers as it is, fly 2-wheeled jets as damned dhoom'ers'!


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## $hadow (Mar 6, 2015)

For me anyone wearing Salman khan blue bracelet is a red  flag and I stay away from that person coz he is a certified chu**** from my side.


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## Flash (Mar 6, 2015)

and here's the twist..

Rapist Mukesh Singh received Rs 40 thousand for interview - Navbharat Times


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 6, 2015)

case getting murkier. had some suspicion about this, esp. with regards to the defence lawyers. unsurety looms as of now. let's wait & watch what all else unfolds.


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

And there are still some who talk about the virtues of the documentary.


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## Flash (Mar 7, 2015)

Udwin's Delhi gangrape documentary lacks perspective, only shock value


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

In the mean while, I am seeing a Facebook post (an image actually), which is mashed up with quotes from that rapist in Tihar Jail, and along with that quotes said to be coming from some hindutva fellows. Seems like there is a very planned agenda to show that the rapist (and his mentality) is essentially because of over-dose of Hindutwa in these parts of India.

For one such post, I have asked the chap to confirm if there are no rapes, and women are treated with utmost respect in areas where there is no Hindutwa present - for example Kerala or WB.

I am getting a strong feeling that every single report scandalising India (even if the incident happened some time back), is now primarily aimed at Narendra Modi and his government. The lynching of the alleged rapist in Nagaland, would sooner or later land up at Modi's desk. May be I am being politically incorrect here, but if before "Hindutwa" gets there as well better to clearly state the religious demographics of Nagaland.


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## Flash (Mar 7, 2015)

This is what the world thinks of India as now..

*i.imgur.com/aWjrBk5.png


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

Yeah, it is as if their are parties outside the country who want to create an image utter social chaos and lawlessness in the country and want both the outside world and plenty within to believe in it. For eg, take that unnecessary advice from obama about how religious and social cohesion is necessary for india to progress. 


- - - Updated - - -


   [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] You were talking about seansationalism, huh? What will you say about this?

*rhulgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/indias-daughter-banbbc/



> The film has attracted considerable international interest. It was due to be shown simultaneously in the UK, India and six other countries – including Switzerland and Norway – on Sunday 8th March to mark International Women’s Day. This was to be followed on Monday 9th March with the launch of the India’s Daughter campaign to raise awareness of gendered violence against women and girls in India and worldwide.


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## $hadow (Mar 7, 2015)

And we think that we are a super power. This has certainly made a lot of bad impact of India on a International stage.


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## sonusahu (Mar 7, 2015)

why is this on a tech forum?

its a troll magnet imo


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## Faun (Mar 7, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] You were talking about seansationalism, huh? What will you say about this?
> 
> *rhulgeopolitics.wordpress.com/2015/03/05/indias-daughter-banbbc/



You know better about what sensationalism is.


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## snap (Mar 7, 2015)

Are we really taking youtube comments seriously now? People should watch the documentary and comment instead of second hand information, it shows both the misogynist views of people and those who oppose it. :\


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## Faun (Mar 7, 2015)

snap said:


> Are we really taking youtube comments seriously now? People should watch the documentary and comment instead of second hand information, it shows both the misogynist views of people and those who oppose it. :\



Greater concern is to save the image of India. Hide the shame and preserve the honor.


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## Desmond (Mar 7, 2015)

Then deal with rapists harshly and show that we are capable at dealing out justice swiftly. Within the law, of course.


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

Seriously who the **** is worrying about honor? Certainly not anyone amongst us Indians. I am just saying don't let others butt in our domestic issues and use it to showcase as an example of how horrible a country we are. Especially not those who don't have a leg to stand upon. Earlier it was country of snake charmers, now it is a rape capital of the world. Why do you think this documentary is going to be premiered before who and who's of Hollywood. Certainly not for promoting rights of woman in India. 

Is it really too hard to comprehend? 

And    [MENTION=5007]DeSmOnD dAvId[/MENTION] show who exactly? Please enumerate. The rape issue is just a part of larger need to rebuilt our law and order system including overhauls in judiciary. That Judicial bill passed by the gov is right step in this direction.

And there is a need to look at the other side of the coin too. Read up about that lynching of undertrial in nagaland.


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## ratul (Mar 7, 2015)

I have watched the documentary, and can say that no amount of law enforcement can change the situation, that only one thing can change the mindset of this country, *EDUCATION!!*, wasn't expected from the lawyers themselves to have such views about women, but have seen enough examples in my daily life to say that this type of mindset is very common in most of the households, things are better in urban cities, but most of the indian families still consider women as "In the house objects." Quoting a line from here: Indiaâ€™s Daughter: â€˜I made a film on rape in India. Menâ€™s brutal attitudes truly shocked meâ€™ | Film | The Guardian


			
				GauravF****dMindset said:
			
		

> For India’s Daughter she spent 30 hours interviewing rapists including Gaurav, a 34-year-old man serving 10 years for raping a five-year-old. “He told me in minute detail what he had done. How he had taken off her knickers. How her eyes were wide with fear. How he had done it front and back. I asked him how tall she was. He stood up and put his hand above his knee. I asked him, ‘How could you do something so terrible that would ruin a child’s life?’ He said, ‘*She was a beggar girl, her life was of no value.*’”


Don't have to say anything after that comment, shows the most prevalent mentality about girls in these "men".


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

[MENTION=122731]ratul[/MENTION] If education were to solve the problem, neither would Britain been leading the field in pedophilia and nor usa in rape (and campus rape is an exclusive contribution by them). Societies there said to be much more enlightened than ours.


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## ratul (Mar 7, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=122731]ratul[/MENTION] If education were to solve the problem, neither would Britain been leading the field in pedophilia and nor usa in rape (and campus rape is an exclusive contribution by them). Societies there said to be much more enlightened than ours.



Can't comment on Britain and USA as i don't live there, but i can look into my country, and i just look at normal people, us, thinking that why we won't rape a women, why and how we came to know the right way to treat the other gender, with respect, and not as an object, and compare it with people like those lawyers whose brains are embedded with beliefs like "We have the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for women." And i find just one answer, *EDUCATION*, which isn't just going to school and be done with it, but overall education, by the parents, by the teachers on everything we do in our daily life.


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## bssunilreddy (Mar 7, 2015)

ratul said:


> Can't comment on Britain and USA as i don't live there, but i can look into my country, and i just look at normal people, us, thinking that why we won't rape a women, why and how we came to know the right way to treat the other gender, with respect, and not as an object, and compare it with people like those lawyers whose brains are embedded with beliefs like "We have the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for women." And i find just one answer, *EDUCATION*, which isn't just going to school and be done with it, but overall education, by the parents, by the teachers on everything we do in our daily life.


*
Superbly Said buddy.

The Education from 1-12 classes & upwards should have values imbued all over for the opposite gender, sisters, brothers, mother, father (extended family) and society as a whole.
If such values are taught from an early age such heinous crimes will not happen in the future in our great country which is home to Vedas as such.

Verdict for the Delhi 2012 Rapists(including the Juvenile): Death Sentence by Poison Injection.

PS: Complete Rejection for mercy petitions for such crimes should be implemented immediately in our country.
*


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 7, 2015)

atleast one good thing that seems to be coming out of this case is about the defence lawyer's fate now. he's known to have uttered such views earlier publicly, but its only now that he stands to being taken to task by the BCI. 

BTW, wouldn't it be a nice idea to shoot another video of mukesh (without any payment, ofc!), this time being showed the footage of the mob-lynching that happened in Nagaland, record his reactions, and broadcast that as well?! another psychology-gauging venture! (#JustInJest)


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## Faun (Mar 7, 2015)

GhorMaanas said:


> atleast one good thing that seems to be coming out of this case is about the defence lawyer's fate now. he's known to have uttered such views earlier publicly, but its only now that he stands to being taken to task by the BCI.



Another good thing is that people will think twice before espousing similar opinions as of the convict and the lawyers.


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## icebags (Mar 7, 2015)

bssunil said:


> *
> Superbly Said buddy.
> 
> The Education from 1-12 classes & upwards should have values imbued all over for the opposite gender, sisters, brothers, mother, father (extended family) and society as a whole.
> ...


*

your analysis over injecting values into the heads of school children is good  , but it's doubtful if this can be of any permanent solution. nature has embedded aggressiveness into human males, guess some people will always go rogue and do irresponsible stuff.

aside from teaching values, i think people should also reanalyze & boost up their defensive strategies. outside there lies a very harsh, tough & ruthless world, where only the fittest survive. 

p.s. i am against controlled, decision based cold headed khoons carried out by society. it wacky to ven think, some people will wake up i the morning, take children to school, go to office, will execute someone by some means, will return back home in the evening & over dinner will say - honey i killed 2 people today, if wife or children ask about how was work......*


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

Right now we are just shooting in the dark. Neither do we know nor understand the perpetrators and so not surprisingly we don't know how to tackle with this issue. And on top of that let foreigners wade into troubled waters to dirty it further.

India is a massive subcontinent - it is the nation with the second largest population in the world and soon to be the largest. Finding a handful of extreme fruitcakes who subscribe to the most horrendous beliefs has frankly, never been and would never be a challenge - just given our vast population and immense diversity.

You want me to make a hard-hitting documentary on cannibalism in India - you bet I can find a handful of Aghoris to sign up. You want me to make a tell-all on sex and religion - I can find a handful of Trantric gurus who would be more than happy to spout outrageous (by normal family standards) beliefs on air.

Are you going to jump up and down each time somebody attempts a hit job and claim that the above PROVES rampant cannibalism in India or that Indian culture explicitly encourages the mixing of sex and religion ?

No - what we need first is data from surveys that systematically and scientifically tabulates (not the ones MSM conjures out of thin air during elections) Indian attitudes (whether towards women or religion or caste or whatever attribute) and makes these public on a regular basis. These surveys need to particularly focus on analyzing the difference in attitudes across regions, religions and communities in India - just given the vast differences across the subcontinent.

Once this is done -only then do we have any base data to come to conclusions about where, if any, the problem lies. Solutions would depend crucially on getting the analysis right. 

Making documentary serves no use after a week or two apart from bringing an award and resultant limelight to the director and co.

- - - Updated - - -

Meanwhile the following article has been removed from HT

*s30.postimg.org/ckkdg112p/htcap.png


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## ratul (Mar 7, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> India is a massive subcontinent - it is the nation with the second largest population in the world and soon to be the largest. Finding a handful of extreme fruitcakes who subscribe to the most horrendous beliefs has frankly, never been and would never be a challenge - just given our vast population and immense diversity.



Yes, india is a massive subcontinent, but these things are not that rare as you say, take this incident from today itself: Man held for brutalising 6-year-old girl in Gujarat | Zee News
Do you really think that these are just "handful of extreme fruitcakes"?? Inserting rod into a f**** 6-yr old?  Just go to a village and talk to a normal person there, they will tell you how common "rapes" are in most of the indian villages, what happens in the "khet", what they think of women there. I speak from experience, as told by some of my college mates, those which did came from those villages, and how education changed them from the others in their village.


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## gemini90 (Mar 7, 2015)

[MENTION=122731]ratul[/MENTION] And let me give you a differing viewpoint. There is a difference between holding to beliefs and traditions which are past sell-by date and committing rapes. In the case of former, the society itself will have to move forward while in the case of latter, state has a major role to play else that case of lynching an undertrial (Acc. to reports in which SP said that it was a false case) in Nagaland will become a common occurrence.

I have my roots in Bundelkhand in UP which is the one of the most backward regions in country. Holding traditional beliefs against the historical background with respect to woman is common. But go and pass a lewd comment against any womanfolk. The villagers will beat you black and blue. Are we not again stereotyping our rural folks?


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## Anorion (Mar 8, 2015)

Oh god.

There is no western conspiracy to defame the country. 

How sensitive the media is to suffering, and the kind of visuals chosen to portray this suffering is different. Maybe they tend to zoom in more when a brown man is suffering. This is not some global conspiracy, at most it is just a bias in the way media operates. This happens openly and continuously with our own channels, where we try to get in as close as possible and don't keep a respectable distance from grief. However don't think it is something to worry about unduly because the content is clear, the meta is not so distracting from that. 

Paying the interviewed parties is a standard procedure. Many documentaries, and TV interview series, and even YouTube documentary channels are conducted in this way. There is nothing wrong in this, this is a long established journalism tradition.

In India, the current laws does not allow for the girl to be named. Which is why the documentary is banned. The need, or relevance of this rule, or the inherent misogyny in the wording of the laws is up for debate, but at the moment, it is illegal.


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## Nanducob (Mar 8, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=122731]ratul[/MENTION] If education were to solve the problem, neither would Britain been leading the field in pedophilia and nor usa in rape (and campus rape is an exclusive contribution by them). Societies there said to be much more enlightened than ours.



so what is the cause of rapes according to you?


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## gemini90 (Mar 8, 2015)

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION] 

Documentary is a hit job. It was illegal to begin with and it was telecasted illegally and watching it is also illegal. Better lessons are learnt by reading Justice Verma report than watching a sick illegal documentary meant for commercial purposes under the guise of societal do-goodness.

*Anjali Bhushan, co-producer of Indias' Daughter, speaks out: Full statement*

www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/anjali-bhushan-co-producer-of-indias-daughter-speaks-out-full-statement/article1-1323775.aspx+&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in]Anjali Bhushan, co-producer of Indias' Daughter, speaks out: Full statement[/url]



> Make no mistake. Rape is a heinous crime. When public anger over the Nirbhaya incident boiled over, the question which confronted our society was how a human being could be driven to commit acts of such depravity. Although, it is said that the moral compass of all criminals is skewed the brutality of this incident made it necessary from a social viewpoint to examine the question of where such behaviour stems from.
> 
> The documentary "India's Daughter" was therefore conceived to serve a social cause which was unfortunately overshadowed by the self-promoting agenda of my collaborator, Ms. Leslee Udwin. I had fallen out with her by the time that the principle photography of the film was completed and was conveniently excluded from the final edits. Subsequently, her attempt to exploit the subject matter of the documentary in a self-advancing attempt to sensationalize the content has not only brought disrepute to my profession and the country but also resulted in hurting the sentiments of the victims of rape who would invariably be exposed to the film. Granted editorial and journalistic privilege, there is also a particular sensibility that should be a guiding factor as an ethical standard. This is the same sensibility because of which the international media decides against telecasting the brutal immolation of a Jordanian pilot by terrorists. The social message which is the very essence of the film I wanted to make is now lost in the unfortunate controversy which has followed. When one edits several hours of footage, it is this sensibility, suitably deployed, which comes into play. It was this 'sensibility' which I was not able to exercise having been prevented by Ms. Leslee Udwin from participating in the post-assembly review of the film. And it was the lack of exercise of this 'sensibility' on her part, (having denied herself of my input as an Indian woman), in a cynical attempt to capture eyeballs and headlines which has led to the unfortunate controversy which will continue to cast a shadow on her career as a film maker.
> 
> ...



- - - Updated - - -

   [MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] See post no 85


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## Nanducob (Mar 8, 2015)

icebags said:


> your analysis over injecting values into the heads of school children is good  , but it's doubtful if this can be of any permanent solution. nature has embedded aggressiveness into human males, guess some people will always go rogue and do irresponsible stuff..





gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=56202]
> 
> [MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] See post no 85



Hm..We are called humans because we all follow a moral 'code of conduct' that cant be found in other animal lives.That decision to overcome an urge comes from the understanding of what would be a potential right or wrong.It can only be acheived through education,weather from schools or relatives or even counselling.Being Aggressive is a poor excuse ,We all have outlived our primitive traits to be considered as beasts


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## icebags (Mar 8, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> Hm..We are called humans because we all follow a moral 'code of conduct' that cant be found in other animal lives.That decision to overcome an urge comes from the understanding of what would be a potential right or wrong.It can only be acheived through education,weather from schools or relatives or even counselling.Being Aggressive is a poor excuse ,We all have outlived our primitive traits to be considered as beasts



well, recently some peoples action remind me of middle age barbaric human behaviors, when people used to be hanged, burned in public, without any trial or anything. i still keep thinking, are we living in 21st century or 12th century ?


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## Nanducob (Mar 8, 2015)

icebags said:


> well, recently some peoples action remind me of middle age barbaric human behaviors, when people used to be hanged, burned in public, without any trial or anything. i still keep thinking, are we living in 21st century or 12th century ?



 there is no difference between that rapist and that Nagaland mob who beat him to death,they both live in 12 th century


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## Faun (Mar 8, 2015)

For one thing, if I were born and brought up in village, I'd have become what I am afraid of. The kind of things I have seen happening there to others is nothing good to tell about.

Empowered women and progressive thinking on men's part is crucial for sound upbringing of new generation.


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## kg11sgbg (Mar 8, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> Hm..We are called humans because we all follow a moral 'code of conduct' that cant be found in other animal lives.That decision to overcome an urge comes from the understanding of what would be a potential right or wrong.It can only be acheived through education,weather from schools or relatives or even counselling.Being Aggressive is a poor excuse ,We all have outlived our primitive traits to be considered as beasts


We are still the raw beast inside,with only a superficial wrap around our characteristics in the name of so called improper educational degrees or the so called sub/poor/un-educated level of representation.
True Love,awareness, care, self-restraint and disciplined attitude is very poorly embedded in our so called moral values and ethics.
In that way animals are far better than us,because they follow and obey  the strict law of the jungle,kills(not murders) for their food,mate(not rape)to go on with the law of nature and evolution...


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## Flash (Mar 8, 2015)

A healthy mind is what that matters.


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## Faun (Mar 8, 2015)

kg11sgbg said:


> We are still the raw beast inside,with only a superficial wrap around our characteristics in the name of so called improper educational degrees or the so called sub/poor/un-educated level of representation.
> True Love,awareness, care, self-restraint and disciplined attitude is very poorly embedded in our so called moral values and ethics.
> In that way animals are far better than us,because they follow and obey  the strict law of the jungle,kills(not murders) for their food,mate(not rape)to go on with the law of nature and evolution...



Animals kill for fun too. And rape happens too.


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## Anorion (Mar 8, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> there is no difference between that rapist and that Nagaland mob who beat him to death,they both live in 12 th century



stone age. This mentality is prevalent and pervasive.


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

You know, I now get it why the rural folks stereotype us city people too, and why we most likely don't understand either their support/non-support for Land bill too.

Meanwhile this is a good article :

*Perception And Propriety: The Problem With ‘India’s Daughter’* by Ajay Kumar (Bombay High Court Advocate)

Perception And Propriety: The Problem With ?India?s Daughter? | Swarajya



> In this piece, I will deal with the problem in a two-fold manner. At the outset, I will address the problems with the documentary from a purely factual point of view and in the second part I will discuss the issues of legality and more importantly, propriety.
> 
> *A) The issue of the facts*
> 
> ...



*India’s Daughter: An Indian Daughter’s Opinion*

India?s Daughter: An Indian Daughter?s Opinion | Swarajya



> *What do films like “India’s Daughter” end up achieving?
> 
> In my opinion, films like these end up giving fodder to susceptible sections of the social elite, especially the most radicalized, vital-sensationalist minds, to mindlessly start generalizing about a whole society and culture on the basis of the most vile, vicious thought uttered by someone like the convict who was interviewed for this film.
> 
> ...



Looking at this thread, she is right.


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## Flash (Mar 9, 2015)

> *We all know one evil-minded convict’s opinion about attitudes toward women should not and cannot say anything about a huge society like India. **And yet, that’s how the dice roll in the sensationalism-loving, TRP-obsessed, media-crazy world of today. *


That's 100% true. Indian media, especially like NDTV/Times Now is purely based on TRP. If they find an issue sensational or interest provoking, they will just put that particular news on loop without verifying whether the information they've obtained is true or not.


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## vkl (Mar 9, 2015)

Education of what kind is being referred to?Education of getting degrees or passing some grades don't get much moral values put into you.If that was the case US,UK,Sweden won't be topping the charts in rape rate.They have more so called "educated" people,counselors,more security,higher sex ratio,more cameras everywhere,are not deprived of schooling facilities,...then what makes US having a rape every 6th minute? Kerala,the so called most literate(yes I know literacy !=education) state of India tops the crime rate in recent years,also crime against women is one of the highest there as per NCRB data.
The education system and syllabus at present needs improvements and changes but society needs to improve as well.One needs to understand the variables are too many and even with this so called education we have at present things won't change much if society doesn't improve. 

Stop stereotyping villages.Not denying that rural India has got lots of issues.India is a country of lot of villages and they are not uniform throughout nor are the cities.More than two-thirds of the population lives in rural areas.So with larger population living in rural areas plus having the larger portion of poor people deprived of basic needs of life makes the number of criminal instances in rural place higher than that of urban.But that doesn't make cities all that far better than rural places in general.My experiences in some villages has been quite good,much better than some of the cities I have lived in.No misogyny,nobody does some behavioral nonsense neither man nor woman,no loose comments on girls, these places are just as good as it gets to live even without some amenities. And yeah those village boys and men were lot better than the ones you would find in some cities as far as conduct is concerned.Finding a roadside _loafer_ is impossible.Neither all villages that bad as being painted nor all our cities in general that good.


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## kg11sgbg (Mar 9, 2015)

vkl said:


> *Education of what kind is being referred to*?Education of getting degrees or passing some grades don't get much moral values put into you.If that was the case US,UK,Sweden won't be topping the charts in rape rate.They have more so called "educated" people,counselors,more security,higher sex ratio,more cameras everywhere,are not deprived of schooling facilities,...then what makes US having a rape every 6th minute? Kerala,the so called most literate(yes I know literacy !=education) state of India tops the crime rate in recent years,also crime against women is one of the highest there as per NCRB data.
> The education system and syllabus at present needs improvements and changes but society needs to improve as well.One needs to understand the variables are too many and even with this so called education we have at present things won't change much if society doesn't improve.
> 
> *Stop stereotyping villages*.Not denying that rural India has got lots of issues.India is a country of lot of villages and they are not uniform throughout nor are the cities.More than two-thirds of the population lives in rural areas.So with larger population living in rural areas plus having the larger portion of poor people deprived of basic needs of life makes the number of criminal instances in rural place higher than that of urban.But that doesn't make cities all that far better than rural places in general.My experiences in some villages has been quite good,much better than some of the cities I have lived in.No misogyny,nobody does some behavioral nonsense neither man nor woman,no loose comments on girls, these places are just as good as it gets to live even without some amenities. And yeah those village boys and men were lot better than the ones you would find in some cities as far as conduct is concerned.Finding a roadside loafer is impossible.Neither all villages that bad as being painted nor all our cities in general that good.


+1, to this explanation.
I totally agree with your comments and I think anybody with at least a common sense and sane mentality,will do so.

Primary and principal awareness ,values,ethics,morality should start from  family.It should be well nurtured through childhood,only then we could get a respected and strong society,that builds a base for strong nation.

In this regard, the values or ethics should not be adjudged with rich and poor. Since, morality,values,ethics cut across all the layers of society. It is very laughable and foolish to say,that a poor man due to his hardships and struggle loses all morality/ethics,but the middle class or the rich could nurture and keep them imbibed within.


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

Elegantly put.


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## REDHOTIRON2004 (Mar 9, 2015)

kg11sgbg said:


> +1, to this explanation.
> I totally agree with your comments and I think anybody with at least a common sense and sane mentality,will do so.
> 
> Primary and principal awareness ,values,ethics,morality should start from  family.It should be well nurtured through childhood,only then we could get a respected and strong society,that builds a base for strong nation.
> ...



Although, values and morality, ethics are nurtured by ones family and external/ internal environment. And it's not just about the poor and rich. A crime can be committed by anyone under certain circumstances.

I will just say that mortality and ethics are adhered to upto a limit only. People who dont have anything to eat and have to struggle everyday in there life, and have nothing much to loose, won't really give much credence to ethics as a person from a well to do background and have things at stake. They might not murder someone at the start but they would be easily inclined to do illegal things for survival.

At a certain level people won't go to the limit of killing a person. But, that would change as soon as his own survival will depend on it.

So, I would say that morality and ethics can only be nurtured or followed as long as a person can take care of his basic everyday needs. 

If that situation changes then it won't take much time for the person to have an animal instinct.

And poor struggling people with nothing to loose have a much higher tendency compared to a family person that have its basic needs covered. At the same time have something to loose.


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

See this is how our fellow indian males will suffer due to crass stereotyping I mentioned in the Nirbhaya thread.

*Viral now: Quora query on German prof's refusal to give internship to Indian student*

Read more at: Viral now: Quora query on German prof's refusal to give internship to Indian student : India, News - India Today



> In what appears to be a direct international fallout of the numerous rapes being reported from India, a student who had applied to a German university for admission has reportedly been turned down by a professor of the Leipzig University citing the rape culture in India.
> 
> *media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories//2015March/letter1_story-650_030915113914.jpg
> 
> ...



*There is a very famous dictum "An arrow once released and word once uttered can NEVER be taken back"*

So no matter what judgement is pronounced, what apology is issued (Not that it will happen) the film CANNOT be withdrawn, or the negative stereotyping of Indians can never be erased from the minds of those who have seen it. The loads of commentary and articles that have followed can never be withdrawn. The wiki entry will never be taken down but a line might get added at the end.

Standard operating procedure in a media psyops. Why do you think BBC advanced the date of telecast for this latest video? The fear was if the Indians obtained some kind of stay in the UK. So they preempted that possibility and immediately pushed out the video for download. No matter what we do the original balance of opinion worldwide will never be restored.
.................................................................................
*One Comment :* I'm Intrigued by this story as it has massive legal ramifications. Should the events and communications referred to be valid, it means that there have been manifest breaches of the European Convention On Human Rights (Article 14 ) "The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, color, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.".It reference to multiple German Female Professors and European Groups Joining in such Discrimination is of great interest, as it shown that Feminism (and those who espouse it) are not Pro-equality, but actively seek to discriminate not just on grounds of being male but also promote institutionalized Racism.
.................................................................................


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## vkl (Mar 9, 2015)

"Select a few morons and blame the entire culture or country",that is what is at works by BBC/Udwin.Wonder what would they have to say in relation to rape rate in their own country,plus things like rotherham sexual abuse for years by Muslim groups and the silence they observed.

Many people read mainstream media as if they show the ultimate truth even if many of these morons have been involved in multiple scandals/scams.
NDTV anyone?(RadiaGate,5500Crore money laundering scam,years of Pro-Pakistani/separatist agenda based and Anti-India nonsense,Chaitanya Kunte issue,all the heads of the channel being directly related to some politicians,gross false-reporting,less fact-checking and more hyping over the years(eg. Rohtak sisters incident)).  They don't have time to verify things,they just read whatever is fed by mainstream media.

The hypocrisy by Udwin/BBC is not very hard to see.Especially telecasting this on international women's day.
Why not make a doc and telecast for the Rotherham sexual abuse of 1400+ or Oxfordshire sexual abuse.Then calling the culture and society sick by making remarks like "most men in India are programmed in some way" "This is a sick society" . Also what was Shiva and Parvati image was doing there lol? The hypocrisy involved is not that hard to see.
A misogynous lawyer and an inhuman rapist,murderer to paint a picture of Indian culture? One doesn't ask rapist about rape & then judge the society based on it.


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## snap (Mar 9, 2015)

I only see finger pointings instead of concentrating on the issue...


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

Well then try to seperate the 2 totally different issues at hand and not club them together to the benefit of others.

- - - Updated - - -

And this blatant racism and sexism at display is not for 1st time either.

*Has German professor denied opportunity to Indian students on more than one occasion citing India’s “rape culture”?*

Has German professor denied opportunity to Indian students on more than one occasion citing India?s ?rape culture??


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## Nanducob (Mar 9, 2015)

I never mentioned that earning degrees will stop you from commiting a rape or a crime.
Education =/= school ,colleges.This includes nursery education too
Not everything is learned from schools and colleges,somethings are learned from parents,friends etc.
Like every countries ,US ,UK etc have their share of uneducated people.
And it the "REPORTED" rape cases that happens  once in six minutes in U.S.
Dont know how many cases are reported here ,but will be very less with less cameras


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## Flash (Mar 9, 2015)

> Amid a wave of anger, the German Ambassador to India, Michael Steiner, objected strongly to the exchange, after which the professor apologised.
> 
> "I made a mistake. I never had the intention of discriminating against Indian society. I have nothing at all against students from India - quite to the contrary. If I hurt anybody's feelings, I duly and heartily apologize and feel sorry for any misunderstandings," Professor Sickinger said in a statement uploaded on the German embassy website.
> 
> The German envoy tweeted out his letter to the professor.



German Professor Apologises for Rejecting Indian Student Citing 'Rape Problem in India'


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## vkl (Mar 9, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> I never mentioned that earning degrees will stop you from commiting a rape or a crime.
> Education =/= school ,colleges.This includes nursery education too
> Not everything is learned from schools and colleges,somethings are learned from parents,friends etc.
> Like every countries ,US ,UK etc have their share of uneducated people.
> ...



Cameras don't lead to more reported rapes in general,it only makes for more security i.e. less chances of someone attempting/doing such crime in front of cameras.
As far as India is concerned,it is estimated to be about every 22minutes,also worth noting India's population is about 4x to that of US.Yes,under-reporting is a big factor but so is in the case of US,UK and many other countries according to data presented. From statistics US rape-rate is about 15x higher than that of India.This gap would be reduced somewhat by inclusion of marital rape under rape rather than domestic violence s.  Rape Is Grossly Underreported In The U.S., Study Finds


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## nikufellow (Mar 9, 2015)

Flash said:


> German Professor Apologises for Rejecting Indian Student Citing 'Rape Problem in India'


Quoting from quora 

"female professors in Germany decided to no longer accept Indian male students for these reasons, and currently other European female association are joining. Of course we cannot change or influence the Indian society but only take our consequences in Europe. "

I would urge bbc/ndtv to continue their noble efforts and make more documentaries exposing Indian men. Also on this occasion I'd like to call upon all liberal rational thinkers of this country to support our media in its endeavor to lay bare the rape culture of Indian society. 

Thanks


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

[MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.

- - - Updated - - -

     [MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?


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## nikufellow (Mar 9, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> [MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?


The Delhi uber case made national and international headlines, still remember those lengthy talk shows in the evening where a few intellectuals would gather to discuss what really is wrong with Indian men or rather society at large and at the end as final conclusion they'd point finger at government for not having done enough and rest their case

Meanwhile a similar case in US fails to make much ruckus even within US let alone any international news outlets 

At least two of the women who reported sexual assaults in Boston on Sunday were using Uber, police say - Metro - The Boston Globe


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## gemini90 (Mar 9, 2015)

[MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] ^^ Well then my apologies for thinking otherwise. I did not get that it was sarcasm in the beginning.


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## Flash (Mar 9, 2015)

*i.imgur.com/S85gWnP.png


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## Nanducob (Mar 10, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=128807]Nanducob[/MENTION] Read that article GhorMaanas posted about campus rape in US a few pages back. And see how a 16 year old victim was being pilloried as being responsible for having herself raped by 2 footballers by US media. How the careers of 2 promising sportsman has gone to waste and other rubbish. Red also about why that victim of Bill Cosby's sexual advances remained silent until now. So it is not a surprise that rapes are under reported in USA too seeing the attitude they have towards rape victims.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> [MENTION=144597]nikufellow[/MENTION] Was that sarcasm or did you just decide to post a comment without first going through the entire thread?


So these two instances prove that US has more rapes?
Of you say its not the lack of education that is causing rapes ,then what is it?


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## nikufellow (Mar 10, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> So these two instances prove that US has more rapes?
> Of you say its not the lack of education that is causing rapes ,then what is it?


West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents. 

If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators


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## Desmond (Mar 10, 2015)

nikufellow said:


> West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents.
> 
> If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators



From what I know, international media does not hype rape cases because in those countries, law enforcement acts quickly and the cases are dispatched off fast.

It is true that education alone won't prevent rapes since it is caused mostly by desperation or lack of restraint, characteristics that go beyond education or upbringing.


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## Nanducob (Mar 10, 2015)

nikufellow said:


> West having more rapes or not isn't the point, their media and the international media doesn't hype it as much as in case of Indian incidents.
> 
> If Education/culture/backwardness/mindset etc are to blamed then how do you explain recurring incidents in other countries which are far ahead of us in almost every social indicators



Why there are beggars and Hobos in devoloped countries?  Not everybody goes to school.Americans dont have the urge to go to colleges as much as Indians do.
Also how many woman in India will openly admit and file a case against rapists?

- - - Updated - - -



DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> It is true that education alone won't prevent rapes since it is caused mostly by desperation or lack of restraint, characteristics that go beyond education or upbringing.



Good points.
I will also add male dominated mindset and psychological problems


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## Desmond (Mar 10, 2015)

Speaking of psychological problems, how many people here voluntarily seek psychiatric help? If you seek psychiatric help here, people will think that you are crazy or insane.


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## nikufellow (Mar 10, 2015)

The buzz going on around in twitter is that top German dailies defended the professor's stance on internship claiming it was merely a 'protest' against mindset of people in India at large 
I don't know how much truth there is to it though


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## gemini90 (Mar 10, 2015)

*Nirbhaya's friend, who was with her on the fateful night, calls 'India's Daughter' a fake film*

Nirbhaya's friend, who was with her on the fateful night, calls 'India's Daughter' a fake film-IndiaNews - IBNLive Mobile


> While the British filmmaker Leslee Udwin claims that her documentary on the horrific Nirbhaya gangrape and murder case, 'India's Daughter', accurately depicts what happened on the night of December 16, 2012, the sole witness to the barbaric assault on the 23-year-old woman called the film "fake".
> 
> Backing the Central government's decision to ban 'India's Daughter' featuring the interview of one of the convicts, Mukesh Singh who blames girls for rape and not men, Nirbhaya's friend Avanindra Pandey accused Leslee Udwin of insensitively handling the issue.
> 
> ...




*Look at this - players behind the documentary*

*storify.com/s_navroop/india-s-daughter-truth-decoded

*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_tgDEvU0AEEU3e.png:large

*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_p8TiCU0AItD_b.jpg

Today plenty of foreign newspapers like the Times of London were calling for removal of ban.

*pbs.twimg.com/media/B_t9uFeWQAAPLja.png:large


1. The documentary was to be shown in India not only on NDTV but at school levels all over India. HT Story that I had posted very early in the story.
2. Udwin wanted to do other such documentaries and perhaps other would have followed. Again in the same HT story.
3. Create a feeling amongst women of the country that they are amongst animals divide the country on gender. 
4. Search, create, train and cultivate local *radical* feminist in the garb of educating society.
5. Use these local radicals to create faultlines within the society from the inside. Outsiders spouting nonsense is easy to spot and can be countered.

They expected a free run given the strong revulsion surrounding the issue and this particular incident within India.


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## Flash (Mar 10, 2015)

So, all of the media world is promoting the Udwin's documentary as "must-watch-before-you-die-if-you-care-about-women" type of video?


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## gemini90 (Mar 10, 2015)

[MENTION=142062]Flash[/MENTION] In essence yes. Yesterday, a premier was held for who and who's of hollywood in USA.

Meryl Streep, Freida Pinto to Present U.S. Premiere of Banned Indian Rape Documentary - Hollywood Reporter

Hollywood stars support controversial documentary ‘India’s Daughter’ | Watch News Videos Online

Notice the use of word 'Shaming words of convicted rapist' by the The Times. They care not about the reaction of and protests by indian public against that incident or about how quickly the case was tried by sessions court and high court. They just want us to be ashamed on behalf of the lowlife rapist.

Take a look at this as an example. Kevin Mccloud made a request for a program in India for Channel 4's India season saying he wanted to survey the architectural wonders of India. He ended up filming the slums...

Kevin McCloud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India accuses Kevin McCloud of making 'poverty porn' in Mumbai slum programme - Telegraph



> Sources say the Indian High Commission in London granted a filming permit in the belief that McCloud was making a programme highlighting Mumbai's architectural history, and officials were horrified to see the end result.


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## REDHOTIRON2004 (Mar 10, 2015)

I don't understand why all the fuss is about. West is asking indian to see how shamefully the convict is defending what he had done.

But, that precisely why he is behind the bars waiting for his execution. That preety much sums the attitude of indians as far as these kind of people are concerned.

These kind of people are not moving at large in the open like the killers of innocent people by ISIL which includes a british executioner as well. Talk about hipocracy. 
Why dont the british media show what muslim youth in there country beleive in?


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## Faun (Mar 10, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> I will also add male dominated mindset and psychological problems



It boils down to this point "Will I let my daughter go alone to a destination at night ?". Short answer "No".

The definition of rape in other countries and India has to be normalized to look at the figures. There is no concept of Marital rape in India.

- - - Updated - - -



gemini90 said:


> 1. The documentary was to be shown in India not only on NDTV but at school levels all over India. HT Story that I had posted very early in the story.
> 2. Udwin wanted to do other such documentaries and perhaps other would have followed. Again in the same HT story.
> 3. Create a feeling amongst women of the country that they are amongst animals divide the country on gender.
> 4. Search, create, train and cultivate local *radical* feminist in the garb of educating society.
> ...



How many radical feminists are destroying the fabric of western nations ? Looks like a tinfoil hat conspiracy.


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## gemini90 (Mar 10, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION]  *Udwin to German professor: Say hello to white woman's 'rape in India' burden*

Udwin to German professor: Say hello to white woman's 'rape in India' burden - Firstpost

I don't agree with her regarding the ban issue but still the rest of the details are interesting.


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## vkl (Mar 10, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> So these two instances prove that US has more rapes?
> Of you say its not the lack of education that is causing rapes ,then what is it?



This thread and internet is full of stats to where US stand in rape-rate and it is not only rape,US is among the leaders when it comes to crime.
Under-reporting is common in Western countries like US,UK etc as well as per studies/surveys.You didn't check the link I guess.
Nobody here is saying that India doesn't have a problem.
Over-reporting is also there in India as well. False rape cases on the rise: Are tougher rape laws being misused? - Oneindia
In about 15months period 53.2% of cases were outright false in Delhi and were mostly to settle enmity.46% were acquitted in 2012,78% were in 2013 .
Similar situation in Rajasthan. State sees spurt in false rape cases in â€™14
Do you have anything to back up that US is less-prone to rape while all the data shows quite the contrary?



Nanducob said:


> Why there are beggars and Hobos in devoloped countries?  Not everybody goes to school.Americans dont have the urge to go to colleges as much as Indians do.
> Also how many woman in India will openly admit and file a case against rapists?



It's not something that only portions of women in India have fear of telling about rape,it's a problem prevalent in US,UK,etc as well, to what extent,it would vary.
Again this school/college?..neither it would guarantee that they won't rape nor it is necessary that an illiterate would rape.An illiterate person might be a very normal person.What about campus rapes in US which has been cited already.
High Schools and Middle Schools Are Failing Victims of Sexual Assault - US News



> Contrary to public perception, less than 8 per cent of the accused in rape cases and only 3 per cent of the accused in molestations are under 18 years of age. Data also shows the largest number of accused persons in both rape and molestation cases are between 18-25 years of age. *Most of the accused in both molestation and rape cases have also received some level of education, with a large number having passed class 10*.


indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/9-out-of-10-rapists-are-known-to-victims-delhi-police/


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## Faun (Mar 10, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
> @<u><a href="*www.digit.in/forum/members/20614.html" target="_blank">Faun</a></u>
> <!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->  *Udwin to German professor: Say hello to white woman's 'rape in India' burden*
> 
> ...



She got overwhelmed by the massive reaction and acting a bit antsy. India is just an easy target to do these things and get popular. What happens in your house is banal compared to what's transpiring in the neighborhood. I wont condone the way she escaped duping the authorities.

But the documentary content is not sensational. It's just the retelling of what happened earlier but this time we get to relate directly with the family and perpetrator. Probably you should watch it regardless of who made it.

Btw this was Charles Manson


Comparing the rapists to him is a bit of a stretch.


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## Nanducob (Mar 10, 2015)

vkl said:


> This thread and internet is full of stats to where US stand in rape-rate and it is not only rape,US is among the leaders when it comes to crime.
> Under-reporting is common in Western countries like US,UK etc as well as per studies/surveys.You didn't check the link I guess.
> Nobody here is saying that India doesn't have a problem.
> Over-reporting is also there in India as well. False rape cases on the rise: Are tougher rape laws being misused? - Oneindia
> ...



I can backup once when I get back to pc


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## icebags (Mar 10, 2015)

for those who are unaware of statistics, this is rate per 1,00,000 population from wikipedia (last column):

*i.imgur.com/c0HpnUm.png


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## Flash (Mar 10, 2015)

I wonder how the Indian people (especially males) who are living in other countries feel, when the documentary & its controversy made Indian society to view as "Rapists".


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## Faun (Mar 10, 2015)

Flash said:


> I wonder how the Indian people (especially males) who are living in other countries feel, when the documentary & its controversy made Indian society to view as "Rapists".



Frankly, people are generally too busy working to have any opinionated view on this. You may find exceptions like that professor.


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## Flash (Mar 10, 2015)

Got my answer here..
*www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/2yf71t/indians_currently_living_abroad_what_is_the/


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## Faun (Mar 10, 2015)

Flash said:


> Got my answer here..
> Indians currently living abroad, what is the [R]eaction of people towards the western media branding India as a rape culture nation? : india



Good for you


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## Minion (Mar 11, 2015)

Rapes happens all over the world It is not like we Indians are rapist but our media is the one who is showing world we all are same "Rapist" and it makes me mad and sad.
now this documentry film WTF. What they are trying to convince people with this?This is not something which is worth showing to world.let the poor girl live in peace.


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## Desmond (Mar 11, 2015)

Minion said:


> Rapes happens all over the world It is not like we Indians are rapist but our media is the one who is showing world we all are same "Rapist" and it makes me mad and sad.
> now this documentry film WTF. What they are trying to convince people with this?This is not something which is worth showing to world.let the poor girl *[strike]live[/strike]* *rest* in peace.



She ain't alive no more bro.


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## Nanducob (Mar 11, 2015)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> She ain't alive no more bro.



The moment of truth


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## Ronnie11 (Mar 11, 2015)

Faun said:


> Frankly, people are generally too busy working to have any opinionated view on this. You may find exceptions like that professor.



+1 to this really. Seriously even foreign nationals are not too opinionated about this.


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## Minion (Mar 11, 2015)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> She ain't alive no more bro.



Oops suffering from fever guess my brain needs more rest.


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## Nanducob (Mar 12, 2015)

Dimapur lynching: It was ‘consensual sex’ not rape, says Nagaland govt report | The Indian Express
Now are they going to kill the girl


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## Anorion (Mar 12, 2015)

icebags said:


> for those who are unaware of statistics, this is rate per 1,00,000 population from wikipedia (last column):



not possible to compare across countries because all the countries have different laws, legal systems, terminologies and definitions


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 13, 2015)

a case of gangrape of a Kazakh woman by a taxi driver and his accomplices in new delhi has come to light now. continuing to expect much from the bestial men (& their children/boys, busy ogling together at their phone-screens & 'masala' CDs at footpath-stalls) and the limping law would be a grave fallacy (still don't know what happened about the Kolkata and Manipur rape-cases of last year); women should take initiative and start training in lethal & non-lethal self-defence and combat-tactics, and start carrying deterrents and weapons. they can be a formidable force to be reckoned with! still remember the 2004 case of slaying of a criminal and rapist by women in court premises at Ngp!


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## Flash (Mar 13, 2015)

GhorMaanas said:


> women should take initiative and start training in lethal & non-lethal self-defence and combat-tactics, and start carrying deterrents and weapons. they can be a formidable force to be reckoned with!


That's where the problem comes. 
Feminists will argue for why can't the men be trained properly to behave in publc and respect women.


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## Minion (Mar 13, 2015)

Women will be Women they will always blame male if anything bad happens no one can change that even most people will support women blindly without knowing facts great ex- is when a boy met an accident with a girl people will beat that guy even if it is not his fault.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 13, 2015)

yes, teaching to respect women and such values should be inculcated in boys at home and in schools, however, the times are bad, and women should not 'outsource' their safety to just moral science teaching, but be prepared themselves for any eventuality.

and the recent example of blindly believing women/blatant misuse of laws against rape is the highly unfortunate incident at Dimapur. am wondering how would those people who murdered that man be feeling now? are they able to live & sleep peacefully?!


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## Flash (Mar 13, 2015)

GhorMaanas said:


> and the recent example of blindly believing women/blatant misuse of laws against rape is the highly unfortunate incident at Dimapur. am wondering how would those people who murdered that man be feeling now? are they able to live & sleep peacefully?!


Seems Police are hunting for them.
*www.netindia123.com/netindia/showdetails.asp?id=2552381&n_date=20150312&cat=India


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## Nanducob (Mar 13, 2015)

wow next mob justice
After Nagaland lynching, mob in Agra beats alleged molestor to death

- - - Updated - - -

next one ,but shot before
*www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2993383/Terrifying-new-footage-reveals-1-000-strong-Indian-lynch-mob-string-slowly-kill-man-accused-raping-murdering-11-year-old-girl.html


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## Flash (Mar 13, 2015)

Nanducob said:


> wow next mob justice
> After Nagaland lynching, mob in Agra beats alleged molestor to death
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


What did we become?


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 14, 2015)

Flash said:


> Seems Police are hunting for them.
> *www.netindia123.com/netindia/showdetails.asp?id=2552381&n_date=20150312&cat=India



yes, got to know. but don't know what to say about such incidents. a failure of the law & judiciary. laws are devised in a way that the trial may take long, but atleast in theory its to ensure that an innocent one isn't wrongly convicted. however, delays due to this very thing backfire + lacklustre and corrupt attitude of police personnel have already earned a 'special' place for them in people's psyche. mobs then, as a result, decide to dispense justice in their own way, and there're high chances that an innocent person may suffer. police and judiciary should now lead by example by carrying on arrests and trials swiftly, if such manias have to be stopped! though don't know what that would take.


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## Anorion (Mar 14, 2015)

UP woman sacrifices daughter to get son
First step to solving the problem is to accept there is one.
Whatever the bus driver and the defense lawyers said is just scratching the surface.


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## Flash (Mar 14, 2015)

*i.imgur.com/MvZ8vo3.jpg


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## Nanducob (Mar 14, 2015)

Flash said:


> *i.imgur.com/MvZ8vo3.jpg


Hahaha


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## gemini90 (Mar 14, 2015)

If anything, it seems Britain is one totally sick society.

*In Great Britain, Powerful Pedophiles are Seemingly Everywhere and Totally Above the Law*

In Great Britain, Powerful Pedophiles are Seemingly Everywhere and Totally Above the Law | Liberty Blitzkrieg


> A newspaper editor was handed startling evidence that Britain’s top law enforcement official knew there was a VIP pedophile network in Westminster, at the heart of the British government. What happened next in the summer of 1984 helps to explain how shocking allegations of rape and murder against some of the country’s most powerful men went unchecked for decades.
> 
> Less than 24 hours after starting to inquire about the dossier presented to him by a senior Labour Party politician, the editor was confronted in his office by a furious member of parliament who threatened him and demanded the documents. “He was frothing at the mouth and really shouting and spitting in my face,” Don Hale told The Daily Beast. “He was straight at me like a raging lion; he was ready to knock me through the wall.”
> 
> ...





> Great Britain’s notoriously tough libel laws insured that obviously he couldn’t repeat the allegations included in the Home Office papers that about 16 MPs and members of the House of Lords, and 30 high-profile figures from the Church of England, private schools, and big business, were members of, and advocates for, the Paedophile Information Exchange.


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## Faun (Mar 14, 2015)

[MENTION=303807]gemini90[/MENTION]

If you got money and power, you are above the law. Deeming whole society sick, don't you see the folly of this assumption ?


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## gemini90 (Mar 14, 2015)

[MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] *Theresa May (Home Sec) : Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know*

Theresa May: Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know - Telegraph



> We already know the trail will lead into our schools and hospitals, our churches, our youth clubs and many other institutions that should have been places of safety but instead became the setting for the most appalling abuse. However, what the country doesn’t yet appreciate is the true scale of that abuse.
> 
> I met young survivors (they prefer the term and, certainly, they are no longer children) and saw how the lives that lay ahead would be so much harder as a result of the pain and distrust that had become a part of them. In my discussions with older victims and survivors and their representatives, I began to realise how abuse is woven, covertly, into the fabric of our society.



This is just taking it to another whole level.

You know, it's not even about not being happy with britain for their racist tendencies with respect to india. The no. of pedophilia cases, their frequency and list of those responsible according to their own investigative reporters leads to no other conclusion. Not for me atleast.


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## snap (Mar 15, 2015)

Red herring much? are we forgetting about the girl who got brutally raped and murdered?


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## Anorion (Mar 15, 2015)

let's just focus on India and not worry about any other country


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 15, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> [MENTION=20614]Faun[/MENTION] *Theresa May (Home Sec) : Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know*
> 
> Theresa May: Child abuse in the UK runs far deeper than you know - Telegraph
> 
> ...


his highness richard dawkins, perched high upon a twig of the golden tree of self-righteouness, has been chirping & tweeting away how the rapists represent India's 'traditional culture of misogyny', while in response to questions about the British-Muslim grooming & the gang-rape incident, he defends by saying "its not British culture" (and what about the 'tradition' of witch-hunting?!). intelligent beyond his intellect! i hope he and such others have some bizarre defenses ready against this big box of dirty stuff!

regarding the documentary, it was already suspect that anything good would come out of it. what are people going to do 'examining' a rapist's mindset?! that could've been better left to psycho-analysts. it seems, as was being told already, that its just a commercial venture in journalistic voyeurism and shocking senses (american postcards on lynchings - another one of them 'traditions'!); though i guess it hardly achieved even that. although the trial could've been expedited, but i dont think the judiciary would be influenced. yet, swift proceedings in such cases should become more desirable now. though overall useless thing, but some people may find uses for them out of it - atleast one real worrying factor that could come out of it is potential rapists who are watching this docum., getting more alert, vicious after viewing it.


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## Flash (Mar 15, 2015)

Leslie Udwin said:
			
		

> “What impelled me to leave my husband and two children for two years while I made the film in India was not so much the horror of the rape as the inspiring and extraordinary eruption on the streets. A cry of ‘enough is enough’. Unprecedented numbers of ordinary men and women, day after day, faced a ferocious government crackdown that included teargas, baton charges and water cannon. They were protesting for my rights and the rights of all women. That gives me optimism. I can’t recall another country having done that in my lifetime.”



Indiaâ€™s Daughter: â€˜I made a film on rape in India. Menâ€™s brutal attitudes truly shocked meâ€™ | Film | The Guardian


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 15, 2015)

^^ thats a refreshing change to read  from the rhetoric that was being uttered earlier!


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## gemini90 (Mar 15, 2015)

[MENTION=120775]GhorMaanas[/MENTION] [MENTION=142062]Flash[/MENTION]

From UK Telegraph which shows the Udwin film shown is propaganda film and had two versions :One for officials to approve and anothter to show in West for propaganda film. Yet the woman claims to be honorable.

*Why to blacken India on rape do they have to omit the facts?*

Why to blacken India on rape do they have to omit the facts? - Telegraph


> A huge row has erupted in India over India’s Daughter, a film made by the BBC on the gang-rape and murder of a young medical student on a Delhi bus in November 2012. What aroused particular anger was how the film, designed to be shown in seven countries to mark International Women’s Day, seemed to want to portray India as the rape capital of the world, with its headline claim that the country has “a rape every 22 minutes”.
> 
> But what has also come to light is that when the film was privately previewed in Delhi, its original version included evidence that in many countries in the West the incidence of rape is actually much greater. In Britain, the official Crime Survey for England and Wales 2014 estimated that there are 85,000 rapes every year, or one every six minutes. Equivalent US figures suggest that 1 per cent of all women are sexually assaulted each year, one every 25 seconds.
> 
> ...


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## Anorion (Mar 15, 2015)

there is no "portrayal" and all here. it is real. the portrayal is tame. does not matter what is happening in other countries, in India, the problems and attitudes are real. The documentary barely scratched the surface. Not only men, but also women have such attitudes. Women get surprised if an old woman is gang raped, which shows that men and women have some worse than stone age mentality here, and don't understand it's about power and violence at all, they still think it is about sex.

No need to compare or bring up statistics. Statistics are worse than useless here because the definition of rape and how the cases are counted is different in every country. If a woman complains that she was raped every day for a month, that can be 30 cases in one country and 1 case in another. Why point fingers and show stats. I don't even want to know what is going on here. 

What matters to us is the attitudes of the people in India, and the rape that does happen in India.


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## beingGamer (Mar 15, 2015)

Here are some thoughts on the documentary by a guy called The Surfing violinist. From US living in India since more than 2 years

India's Daughter - The Impatience of Documentary: India's Daughter - The Impatience of Documentary - YouTube


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## Flash (Mar 15, 2015)

Channels like NDTV always knows, how to milk the cow while the cow is still alive.

[YOUTUBE]cShXikihcEw[/YOUTUBE]


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## Anorion (Mar 15, 2015)

Oh wow. Familiar with what that guy was doing here. First time seeing him get so worked up. 

does the documentary say Rape is an Indian only problem?
Does the documentary say Mukesh can only be from India?
I didn't see it that way. The documentary was made in India. But it shows the views of men and women everywhere. 

another problem I'm seeing is that only men are being targeted here. Pretty sure if women were the defense lawyers, they would also use the same argument. Women also have such attitudes, it's not just the men.


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## gemini90 (Mar 15, 2015)

[MENTION=142062]Flash[/MENTION] that ndtv anchor is Sonia Singh, right? If so, it was her husband RPN Singh, MoS for Home UPA, who gave the permission for the documentary in 2013 in first place.


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## Flash (Mar 15, 2015)

No, she's NDTV news anchor named "Nidhi Razdan".


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## gemini90 (Mar 15, 2015)

Ah well, my fault to not have kept tabs on the channel since long.


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## GhorMaanas (Mar 16, 2015)

gemini90 said:


> @GhorMaanas   @Flash
> 
> From UK Telegraph which shows the Udwin film shown is propaganda film and had two versions :_*One for officials to approve and anothter to show in West for propaganda film*_. Yet the woman claims to be honorable.
> 
> ...



the co-director and co-producer of the film had written in detail about a similar thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Flash said:


> No, she's NDTV news anchor named "Nidhi Razdan".





gemini90 said:


> Ah well, my fault to not have kept tabs on the channel since long.



i remember her from the epic rebuke she had received from a British MP on TV in 2013, a chastising that's much deserved & needed by our popular media, but rarely given/seen!


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## amit.tiger12 (Mar 16, 2015)

'UK's Daughters' Documentary

*www.google.co.in/search?q=uk+daugh...=gNcGVZyiH4OLuwSasYH4BQ#q=uk+daughter&tbm=nws


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## Faun (Mar 16, 2015)

That post rock music (Joy Wants Eternity - "From Embrace to Embrace")


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## Anorion (Mar 16, 2015)

why has this "blackening India" has become more important than the main issue


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## Faun (Mar 16, 2015)

Anorion said:


> why has this "blackening India" has become more important than the main issue



"mind your own business"


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## Flash (Mar 16, 2015)

amit.tiger12 said:


> 'UK's Daughters' Documentary
> 
> *www.google.co.in/search?q=uk+daugh...=gNcGVZyiH4OLuwSasYH4BQ#q=uk+daughter&tbm=nws


When i saw the title "UK's Daughters", i thought somebody was trolling. But the video is real..


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## icebags (Mar 16, 2015)

i have been playing battlefield online a quite some time now, and while doing so, i keep meeting fellow indian people online. communicating language of these guys always amaze me, probably 50%-70% of the words they use to form a sentence, consist of sexual, abusive, molesting kind of stuff. and so they keep me amazed, if these people can't do it, who will...... to say, using of gaali wards at such scale is also not as common even in english, exceptions are some intentional usage in some films, and some special places on earth.

i would say, there is no need to debate anything whether the docu should be shown or not, cause it will not change anything. those who feel like doing it, will do it, in spite of all the protests or anything ......


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## Anorion (Mar 17, 2015)

pointing out the hypocrisy in making the documentary, and bringing up UK statistics is an example of the Tu quoque  logical fallacy


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## Flash (Mar 17, 2015)

The International Business Times reports that some people took to Twitter and voiced their approval of United Kingdom’s Daughter and lashed out at the lopsidedness of India’s Daughter. Others criticized and dismissed the film, calling it nothing more than retaliation for the BBC documentary. Still others cited embarrassment at both of the filmmakers for using these crimes to sensationalize a country-based problem when violence against women is a global issue.

Following are some of the reactions from Twitterati:




[*=1]"Watched "*United Kingdom's Daughters*" on YouTube. UK has much higher rape rate than India. Shame on UK"-- *Karma Avenger HMG*
[*=1]"Not denying rape facts of UK, but reason *United Kingdom's Daughters* was made is as "response" to #IndiasDaughter which is a wrong mentality"-- *Dr. Fish N Chips*
[*=1]"Westerners go to India, focus on dark sides of society They hide #India's bright sides outshine the west. ''*United Kingdom's Daughters*''--*Karma Avenger HMG*
[*=1]*"United Kingdom's Daughters* is living proof that Indians are better at #revenge than introspection #IndiasDaughter" –Ricky Kej
[*=1]"A video, *United Kingdom's Daughters* in reply to BBC India's Daughter is posted.Humiliating the victims for the sake of revenge is disgusting"—Zain
[*=1]"It's not about #IndiasDaughter or *United Kingdom's Daughters* ;this is a humanitarian problem.Shame on ppl who try to divide/objectify women" --*Priya Mukherji*
‘United Kingdom’s Daughter’ Video Seen As Retaliation For BBC ‘India’s Daughter’
​


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