# Gaming PC 55k



## manuabraham (Jun 8, 2013)

1. What is the purpose of the computer? What all applications and games are you going to run? (Stupid answers like 'gaming' or 'office work' will not work. Be exact. Which games? Which applications? Avoid the word 'et cetera.')
Ans:Games - Max Payne 3, GTA 5, Fifa 14, Crysis 3 (med settings), Hitman Absolution

2. What is your overall budget? If you can extend a bit for a more balanced configuration, then mention this too.
Ans:55k is budget , can maybe extend to 60k

3. Planning to overclock?
Ans:No

4. Which Operating System are you planning to use?
Ans:Windows 8 ( I dont have a copy, so price need to be included in the above budget)

5. How much hard drive space is needed?
Ans:500gb will do fine, wont say no to 1 tb

6. Do you want to buy a monitor? If yes, please mention which screen size and resolution do you want. If you already have a monitor and want to reuse it, again mention the size and resolution of monitor you have.
Ans:Yes I need a monitor, you guys suggest one for good gaming

7. Which components you DON'T want to buy or which components you already have and plan on reusing?
Ans:Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers

8. When are you planning to buy the system?
Ans: End of June or End of July

9. Have you ever built a desktop before or will this be done by an assembler?
Ans:Need an assembler, Please suggest one I can find in Chennai

10. Where do you live? Are you buying locally? Are you open to buying stuff from online shops if you don't get locally?
Ans:Live in chennai as of now, wouldnt mind buying locally or online

11. Anything else which you would like to say?
Ans:Got screwed once on a pc, looong back when i was 15, dont want to make the same mistake, I need your help.
Also, stressing on the fact that I need an assembler from Chennai, and I dont know anything  about building computers so I hope you guys mention all the parts necessary for it to run , also, you guys can tell me where I will be lacking in the budget departments and also what I can expect from the rig you suggest
thanks


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 8, 2013)

Intel rig:i5 3550 (13k)
gigabyte b75m dh3 (4k)
g.skill ripjawsx 1600 MHz 4 GB RAM (2.2k
)wd blue 500 GB (3k)
seasonic s12II 520W (4.2k)
asus hd7870 (16.5k)
nzxt gamma (2.5k)
dell s2240l (8.5k) 
total: around 57k

amd rig:fx 8350 (12k)
asus m5a97 evo r2.0 (7k)
everything else same


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 8, 2013)

*Intel i5 3550 - rs 12200

Intel z77 ml-45k mobo - rs 4600

G.skill ripjaws 1600mhz 4gb  ram - rs 2200

Seasonic s12 520w psu - rs 3900

Nzxt source 210 cabinet - rs 2,900

Dell s2240l ips led - rs 8500

Wd cavier blue 1tb - rs 3700

Saphhire hd 7950 - 3gb with boost - rs 22000 

Total - rs 60,000

This gaming rig would be best for you *


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## Cilus (Jun 8, 2013)

In case of Intel configuration, get the following:-

Intel Core i5 4430 @ 12K
MSI H87M-G43 Motherboard Intel Z87 (Socket 1150) Micro ATX @ 6K

As Haswell or 4th Generation Core Processors are available at the same range, better opt for them instead of Ivy Bridge. It offers slightly better performance and will keep the future Processor upgrade path open.


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## The Incinerator (Jun 8, 2013)

I would advise to go with Haswel and better get an Asus H87M-E for Rs 7350


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 8, 2013)

Cilus said:


> In case of Intel configuration, get the following:-
> 
> Intel Core i5 4430 @ 12K
> MSI H87M-G43 Motherboard Intel Z87 (Socket 1150) Micro ATX @ 6K
> ...


Didn't knew its already available.


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## manuabraham (Jun 9, 2013)

thanks for the suggestions guys, so with the configurations that harshil/ashish posted, what sort of graphic levels can i obtain from games like max payne 3, hitman absolution etc??
also, i thought haswell is not released yet in india?



harshilsharma63 said:


> Intel rig:i5 3550 (13k)
> gigabyte b75m dh3 (4k)
> g.skill ripjawsx 1600 MHz 4 GB RAM (2.2k
> )wd blue 500 GB (3k)
> ...





Which would be better, gaming wise/stability?? intel or amd?? im sorry if this is noobish question, but I dont have a clue.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 9, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> thanks for the suggestions guys, so with the configurations that harshil/ashish posted, what sort of graphic levels can i obtain from games like max payne 3, hitman absolution etc??
> also, i thought haswell is not released yet in india?
> 
> 
> ...



For just gaming, currently Intel has a lead over AMD, but AMD is catching fast. As Haswell is gonna be available in some time, so should wait for it.


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## Cilus (Jun 9, 2013)

Couple of Haswell Processors are already available. Core i5 4530 + H87 Motherboard combination will come around (12+6)K = 18K. Check smcinternational.in for it. But believe me, at your budget FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0 will be a better choice. As games are becoming multithreaded (See Crysis 3 scaling in different Processors), a 8 Core Processor like FX-8350/FX-8320 will have an advantage.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 9, 2013)

Absolutely yes to AMD proccy..
It can be overclocked to a much greater extent as compared to Haswell & Ivy too


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## manuabraham (Jun 10, 2013)

alright... i think I wil go for an AMD rig, FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0.. what about the rest of the parts? 

also, I keep playin for quiet some time, so Normally my laptop heats up really bad, can u guys help with a cooling system aswell? ( i dont really know if it is sold separately or as part of one of the components u mentioned above)

and finally , what about the dvd drive [ noob  ] ?

Also, If I can get a ZOTAC NVIDIA GTX 680 2 GB DDR5 Graphics Card, will it be compatable with the rest of the stuff you mentioned? processor/motherboard/ram etc etc??


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## The Incinerator (Jun 10, 2013)

Instead of a GTX680,get an HD7970.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 10, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> alright... i think I wil go for an AMD rig, FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0.. what about the rest of the parts?
> 
> also, I keep playin for quiet some time, so Normally my laptop heats up really bad, can u guys help with a cooling system aswell? ( i dont really know if it is sold separately or as part of one of the components u mentioned above)
> 
> ...



GTX680 is overkill for single monitor IMO. What price are you getting it at?

Considering that you are getting it for pretty low price to justify the purchase, here are the changes you'll need to make to the config I previously mentioned:

corsair TX650V2
Larger cabinet, like Corsair 400R.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 10, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> alright... i think I wil go for an AMD rig, FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0.. what about the rest of the parts?
> 
> also, I keep playin for quiet some time, so Normally my laptop heats up really bad, can u guys help with a cooling system aswell? ( i dont really know if it is sold separately or as part of one of the components u mentioned above)
> 
> ...



See FX 8350 has good default cooling but if you want you may buy a CM 212Evo for 2K

As far as GFX is considered get this Sapphire VAPOR-X HD 7970 3GB Graphic Card @ 30k
or
*smcinternational.in/index.php?route=product/product&path=108_125&product_id=1448 @ 26.8k

PSU : Seasonic S12II 620 Watts PSU - Seasonic: Flipkart.com @ 5.5k


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## Cilus (Jun 10, 2013)

^^ The Gigabyte HD 7970 OC with boost with its own Wind force triple Fan Cooler is one of the best custom PCB based HD 7970 available. It is already overclocked to 1000 MHz, level of a GHz edition + you can overclock it to almost 1250 MHz level. The price differece with other custom cards is more than 3K and I think it is the best choice.


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## manuabraham (Jun 11, 2013)

thanks for the suggestions guys.. but yea, i dont think i can cough up that much ( I thought of selling my phone  ), anyway that wont do it.. 
so revised back to the old budget of 60k (AMD RIG)


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 11, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> thanks for the suggestions guys.. but yea, i dont think i can cough up that much ( I thought of selling my phone  ), anyway that wont do it..
> so revised back to the old budget of 60k (AMD RIG)


Look at my original suggestion.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 11, 2013)

Cilus said:


> But believe me, at your budget FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0 will be a better choice. As games are becoming multithreaded (See Crysis 3 scaling in different Processors), a 8 Core Processor like FX-8350/FX-8320 will have an advantage.



Now you are definitely paid by amd or just trolling. Fx beating i5 that too haswell one in gaming. That claim is just bogus sir. Xbox one and ps4 have jaguar cores which are not even anywhere close to i series level of performance, Games are going to be influenced by gpu more than cpu but 8 jaguar cores being faster than an i5, I dont think so. Jaguar was chosen for low tdp. Its an atom competitor.

Conclusion: Intel kicks amd's ass in gaming


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## Chaitanya (Jun 11, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> Now you are definitely paid by amd or just trolling. Fx beating i5 that too haswell one in gaming. That claim is just bogus sir. Xbox one and ps4 have jaguar cores which are not even anywhere close to i series level of performance, Games are going to be influenced by gpu more than cpu but 8 jaguar cores being faster than an i5, I dont think so. Jaguar was chosen for low tdp. Its an atom competitor.
> 
> Conclusion: *Intel kicks amd's ass in gaming*



This might help you understand fact..

*www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crysis-3-performance-benchmark-gaming,3451-8.html

*www.techspot.com/review/642-crysis-3-performance/page6.html

[GameGPU] Crysis 3 Final - GPU & CPU scaling

*www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285161-More-Crysis-3-CPU-benchmarks


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 11, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> Now you are definitely paid by amd or just trolling. Fx beating i5 that too haswell one in gaming. That claim is just bogus sir. Xbox one and ps4 have jaguar cores which are not even anywhere close to i series level of performance, Games are going to be influenced by gpu more than cpu but 8 jaguar cores being faster than an i5, I dont think so. Jaguar was chosen for low tdp. Its an atom competitor.
> 
> Conclusion: Intel kicks amd's ass in gaming



Allow me to clear things.



Cilus said:


> Couple of Haswell Processors are already available. Core i5 4530 + H87 Motherboard combination will come around (12+6)K = 18K. Check smcinternational.in for it. But believe me, at your budget FX-8350 + Asus M5A97 EVO R2.0 will be a better choice. As games are *becoming* multithreaded (See Crysis 3 scaling in different Processors), a 8 Core Processor like FX-8350/FX-8320 *will* have an advantage.



Notice something (hint: its the bold words you probably skipped)?


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> Now you are definitely paid by amd or just trolling. Fx beating i5 that too haswell one in gaming. That claim is just bogus sir. Xbox one and ps4 have jaguar cores which are not even anywhere close to i series level of performance, Games are going to be influenced by gpu more than cpu but 8 jaguar cores being faster than an i5, I dont think so. Jaguar was chosen for low tdp. Its an atom competitor.
> 
> Conclusion: Intel kicks amd's ass in gaming



Mind your language buddy and increase your knowledge base a little. I know you are a Intel fan boy from long who does not give a sheet or does not understand about Architecture changes, Gaming optimizations and future trends. And that is the reason, you have just compared AMD jaguar present in the PS4/XBox directly with a performance of a Desktop Processor. Anyway, for your understanding, I am making it simple: The SOC or System On Chip used in those consoles are 1st implementation of HSA or Heterogeneous System Architecture which can be considered as a Many Core model where unlike Desktop Multicore Processors, all the cores are not of same type and they access same Memory using unified Memory Access Model (UMA). Here performance of a single Execution unit does not matter that much as the system executes any thread as whole, dividing the whole task dynamically among the different type of execution units. The Unified memory model eliminates the bottleneck occurring due to multiple access transmission among the different execution units (In our desktop, between CPU and GPU) and transferring the data among different type of Memory (Between System Memory and GPU Memory in our Desktop). 
Because of that design, using advanced coding models like C++ AMP, OpenCL and even standard C++, developers can write codes in a very optimized manner, ensuring that every possible resource can be utilized in full extent. There are plenty of articles available about Heterogeneous Programing Models in the net and I suggest you go through those before branding someone as a Troll or something like *you are definitely paid by amd*.

Here is the Crysis 3 scaling which gives us a very good idea what happens when games use multiple core efficiently.

*www.techspot.com/articles-info/642/bench/CPU_03.png



harshilsharma63 said:


> Allow me to clear things.
> 
> 
> 
> Notice something (hint: its the bold words you probably skipped)?



Didn't get you properly.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 11, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Didn't get you properly.


I wanted to show that you, in a way, meant that games are 'becoming' multi-core optimized, and may not necessarily 'already' be so. It's now that the developers will make optimizing games for multiple cores a priority.


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2013)

I think you are right. There are couple of games like Battlefield 3, Crysis 2 and the latest Crysis 3 which are heavily optimized to use up to 8 Cores. Now due to the architecture in the current consoles, game developers will be happy to use multi-core optimization in the console version of the games which in turns enable them to port it very easily to PC as the underlying architecture for PC and Consoles are almost same...same x86 micro architecture.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 11, 2013)

Well first by betting on future of gaming you are forgetting about thousands of games made till now,  in which i5 beats fx.  Fx wont even beat i3 if you take every title from 2 years back to now. In crysis 3 also,  the win wasnt big and that too over ivy.  For crysis 3 you cannot forget almost every game built till now  
No doubt fx is better in multithreaded apps,  but just because next gen of consoles use 8 core processors isnt why gaming will go multithreaded.  Xbox one wont even launch till late 2014 in asia and xbox 360 wont be going out very soon with a new one launched yesterday.  And is the lowest performing console on which 90% of games will be coded on for next 2 years atleast like ps2 was coded for. Op will be upgrading again by the time gaming truely uses8 threads. I stand by the comment i5 is better in solely gaming as prooved by every game till crysis 3, in which also fx is equivalent.  If anything a 3570k will have a lot more overclocking potential than fx which already comes at 4ghz.


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2013)

FX has more overclocking potential than Ivy bridge. Get your facts correct. Ivy Bridge is the 1st implementation of Intel's Tri Gate Transistor design and has some heating issues when overclocked. In many tests including Tomshardware and Anandtech, it is already proven that it is very hard to overclock Ivy Bridge processors over 4.5 GHz even with the best of the liquid coolers and 4.7 GHz is the maximum recommended although very tough to reach. in case of FX-8350, I run it at 4.6 GHz all the time with an 2 years old Hyper 212 Plus Cooler with a single Fan.

regarding Processor, when I'll buy something, I'll always try to make it more suitable for upcoming games and trends in software industry while making it comprehensive enough to handle current tasks. In any games, is there a huge performance difference between a i5 3570K and FX-8350 which is bad enough to provide you bad gameplay experience? No. 
Plus in AMD platform, FX-8350 + AMD 970 chipset motherboard will cost more than 5K lesser than a i5 3570K + standard Z77 Motherboard combo which can be utilized to get a more powerful GPU which will again equal the gaming performance.
Last but not the least, with an Ivy bridge, your CPu upgrade path end here. With AM3+ socket, you can still have another upgrade of Steam Roller Processor.


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 11, 2013)

Cilus said:


> FX has more overclocking potential than Ivy bridge. Get your facts correct. Ivy Bridge is the 1st implementation of Intel's Tri Gate Transistor design and has some heating issues when overclocked. In many tests including Tomshardware and Anandtech, it is already proven that it is very hard to overclock Ivy Bridge processors over 4.5 GHz even with the best of the liquid coolers and 4.7 GHz is the maximum recommended although very tough to reach. in case of FX-8350, I run it at 4.6 GHz all the time with an 2 years old Hyper 212 Plus Cooler with a single Fan.



 Huh? yes fx can oc with stock cooler to some extent.But in overall overclocking i5 and i7 will have edge anyday.

According to anandtech,Guru 3d,x-bit labs max oc they achieved for i5 was 4.7 while fx was 4.7-4.8

Fx 8350 comes factory clocked at 4.0Ghz. What if the 3570k  were factory clocked at 4.0Ghz? it would Beaten the 8350 even more so.@stock i5 is faster than fx 8350 then Being that a 3570, 8350 all overclock to around 4.7Ghz/4.8ghz(fx), with the 8350 you can get a 0.8Ghz advantage, but with the 3570k you get a 1.3Ghz advantage.That's 0.5Ghz(500mhz) of an advantage the Intel's have over AMD


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## Cilus (Jun 11, 2013)

^^Did anybody ask Intel for not to running their Processors at 4 GHz? It is their policy, what happens when Intel will release an i5 running at 4GHz stock speed or whether it will beat AMD, it is a completely irrelevant question, isn't it? 

And regarding speed, I suggest you again read a little bit about different Instruction Execution Models available in Microarchitecture. Intel and AMD operates on a different philosophy while designing their Microarchitecture. The Intel model is known as throughput model which concentrate more to maximize the number of instructions executed in a time frame whereas AMD model is known as legecy IPC model where CPU needs to be optimized for running as many clock cycle as possible in a time frame while performing smaller amount of task in each cycle.  That is the reason, AMD FX series processors run at so high stock speed while Intel Processors run at little slower stock speed. Try to understand, you can't compare two complete different architectures using clock by clock measure.



> Fx 8350 comes factory clocked at 4.0Ghz. What if the 3570k were factory clocked at 4.0Ghz? it would Beaten the 8350 even more so.@stock i5 is faster than fx 8350 then Being that a 3570, 8350 all overclock to around 4.7Ghz/4.8ghz(fx), with the 8350 you can get a 0.8Ghz advantage, but with the 3570k you get a 1.3Ghz advantage.That's 0.5Ghz(500mhz) of an advantage the Intel's have over AMD



I don't know whether Tomshardware has published a separate article about Ivy Bridge Overclocking just for you, but this is what I found in Tomshardware:-
Overclocking Ivy Bridge: Treating This Hot-Head Gingerly - Overclocking Core i7-3770K: Learning To Live With Compromise

According to them, while overclocked to 4.5 GHz, i7 3770K was around 100 degree Celsius while load testing was performed.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 11, 2013)

I5 3570k comes at 3.4 ghz and would overclock upto 4.5, fx alrready comes at 4 and overclock upto 4.6?? Now the difference would be at most 100-200mhz while earlier it was half a ghz. Add to that significant more ipc performance i5 would be even more faster than fx 8350. I cant make you believe cilus but I really hope op is listening.  The logic I just proposed is indenible and thats why 8 out of 10 people choose intel. Games took four years to become quad threaded in,  I dont think any developer in right mind would focus to eke out more performance out of fx while i series is definitely 4 times more popular.  52% people use a quad for gaming and I dont think fx 8350 is gonna change it any time soon.  Add to that humiliation two i5's will run in the power a single overclocked fx 8350 will take.

Ivy runs hotter because intel used cheap paste.  Else sandy bridge wont even give you that point.  Add to that that intel has a poorer cooler,  ivy has to run hotter.  But this is nothing a cm evo wont fix.  The clocks proposed on fx are also not on stock cooler.  And your point about amd's different philosophy is just bs.  First gen fx were clocked a lot lower.  If amd had any kind of advantage,  they will reduce tdp instead of frequency which is not clearly the case. I5 is better than gaming and not a single site will support your argument cilus. Amd sells better cooler because they have to dissipate a lot more heat and they cant ask for profit margins like intel.


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## Cilus (Jun 12, 2013)

Don't talk nonsese please. Check out the link I have posted. And with a liquid cooler like H60 or H80, fx-8350 will go to 5 GHz easily. I am on 4.6 GHz with with a cheap $29 cooler. What you're posting is purely your opinion without any valid points. *Ivy Bridge's problem is because of the TriGate Transistor used, not cheaper paste.* And what you think about Game development trends isn't going to matter or make any difference; otherwise you could have been a pioneer on that. Did you check the E3 demos of the upcoming games like BF4, Batman Arkham Origin, running? They are all are optimized heavily to use as many cores you can throw. So stop posting what you think and instead try to get the original picture out there about the development.


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## varun004 (Jun 12, 2013)

he is right about the cheap paste. Its all over ocn forums, they delidded the chip and applied different paste and saw huge temp drops. In some cases 20 to 30 degrees. And games being multi core in future is true but i5 is fast enough to compete with 8-core amd cpus.


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

Cilus said:


> I don't know whether Tomshardware has published a separate article about Ivy Bridge Overclocking just for you, but this is what I found in Tomshardware:-
> Overclocking Ivy Bridge: Treating This Hot-Head Gingerly - Overclocking Core i7-3770K: Learning To Live With Compromise
> 
> According to them, while overclocked to 4.5 GHz, i7 3770K was around 100 degree Celsius while load testing was performed.



regarding i5 3570k most sites able to achieve stable 4.7ghz oc with good cooler 

Core i5 3570K processor review - Overclocking with Ivy Bridge processors

Review: Intel Core i5-3570K (22nm Ivy Bridge) - CPU - HEXUS.net - Page 9

*www.vortez.net/articles_pages/intel_ivy_bridge_core_i5_3570k_core_i7_3770k_review,4.html

yes it is not that easy to oc to that extent,but with good cooler it is possible


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 12, 2013)

You think and evo cant overclock ivy i5 3570k to 4.4ghz?? Well you arr wrong then.  And thats the same cooler you are using i think to reach 4.6  
5ghz overclock club is actually quite small as can be seen on overclock.net and if there was some problem with tri gate tech,  haswell would have overclocked higher than ivy which is not what preliminary reports are showing.  You want to talk about upcoming games,  and I am talking about every game built till now.  Only game where fx matches i5 will be crysis3 and thats with a half ghz lead,  after overclocking it will again be a white wash.  I dont think op is reading anymore so lets just stop. But this discussion has been going on for a lot of time,  and the only link you provide is of crysis 3 ( mind you one fps difference over a 3450) and links I can provide where i5 beats fx are numerous. The ratio of wins coming outfor i5 will be 10:1 lol?  I can give you benchmarks in gaming where an i3 beats fx 8350, can you give the same where an fx 4300 beats i5. Thats why piledriver fx are second tier on tomshardware whereas every i5 from sb is tier 1.


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

Now regarding op 's rig i would suggest get intel rig as you will get better gpu than what you get in amd rig as you in gaming gpu is all most matter.

Intel rig



> *Intel i5 3470 - rs 11200
> 
> Intel z75 ml-45k mobo - rs 4600
> 
> ...



Amd rig 



> *Fx 8350 - rs 11,600
> **
> Asus M5a97 R2 evo - Rs 7000*
> 
> ...



I5 + 7950 boost > fx 8350 + 7870 xt


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## The Incinerator (Jun 12, 2013)

Layman terms and hope a conclusion......

Which one would you all buy....

*FX8350 + M5A97 Evo + HD 7970 OC = Rs 47100*

or

*i5 3570K + Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H + HD7950 = Rs 48500*


Honestly any one in the right frame of mind and informed will buy the former. Nobody wants to pay more and end up with lesser FPS with the latter. Do ya?

*Chuck overclocking ,it wont take you to the other side of the moon in FPS its the GPU that will,and the AMD set up gets me 8 cores and a faster GPU and that matters really matters in gaming.Gamers and Overclockers are different breeds. They have their mainboard to gears separated from the gamers.So.*

Intel Z77 mainboard or Z75m45Lk ?,now who would suggest that cheap mainboard with questionable build quality actually built by the untouchable Foxconn. We all know Intel is exiting Mainboard business,that is another reason to avoid it,warranty will be an issue.You are  cutting essential corners and suggesting cheap components to proove you point not good!


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## Cilus (Jun 12, 2013)

The Incinerator said:


> Layman terms and hope a conclusion......
> 
> Which one would you all buy....
> 
> ...



I tried to put that point too....about the overall cost vs performance but I guess they won't listen anything you put.


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## varun004 (Jun 12, 2013)

The combo with better gpu is definitely the option op should go for.


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## The Incinerator (Jun 12, 2013)

Then Cilus ,all I can say is we have done our job and now its OP's decision.

@OP do care for the future and the VFM factor when making the actual purchase.There are lot of factors that should be taken care of while buying the processor and Cilus has explained it in the sweetest [read easy] of way.Take Care!


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## Cilus (Jun 12, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> You think and evo cant overclock ivy i5 3570k to 4.4ghz?? Well you arr wrong then.  And thats the same cooler you are using i think to reach 4.6
> 5ghz overclock club is actually quite small as can be seen on overclock.net and* if there was some problem with tri gate tech,  haswell would have overclocked higher than ivy which is not what preliminary reports are showing. * You want to talk about upcoming games,  and I am talking about every game built till now.  Only game where fx matches i5 will be crysis3 and thats with a half ghz lead,  after overclocking it will again be a white wash.  I dont think op is reading anymore so lets just stop. But this discussion has been going on for a lot of time,  and the only link you provide is of crysis 3 ( mind you one fps difference over a 3450) and links I can provide where i5 beats fx are numerous. The ratio of wins coming outfor i5 will be 10:1 lol?  I can give you benchmarks in gaming where an i3 beats fx 8350, can you give the same where an fx 4300 beats i5. Thats why piledriver fx are second tier on tomshardware whereas every i5 from sb is tier 1.




This guy desperately needs some basic knowledge about Processor manufacturing as he is putting his own ideas without knowing a single thing. H*aswell has heating issue due to the integrated VRM circuit inside the CPU package, not because of the Tri Gate Transistor issue Ivy Bridge was having. *In Haswell, Intel 1st time implemented integrated Voltage Regulation Modules or VRM inside the CPU package. Now while overclocking, it  is getting very hot, resulting poor overclocking potential.

And for overclocking i5 3570K to 4 GHz for matching the speed of a FX-8350, you again need a 2K cooler which I don't think Intel provides for free with their K series processor, adding to the system value. I hope you understand there is a term called Performance/Price ratio.


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## The Incinerator (Jun 12, 2013)

Exactly! And as said by one reviewer that days of insane overclocking is gone with Intel and indeed so. Cooling the CPU with a CPU cooler which itself was quite a task while overclocking and now the VRM!

Indeed I was quite surprised amused reading his posts and that too with so much confidence he has posted


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 12, 2013)

Provide me any link that tri gate tech is the reason for lower clocks instead of cheap paste. Anyways even if it affected overclocking it was more than negated by the drastically reduced tdp and increased ipc by moving to 22nm while amd is still stuck on 32nm. I know haswell has vrm on die. Now let me show something:
CPU Benchmarks - Crysis 3 Performance, Benchmarked On 16 Graphics Cards
fx 8350 cannot even perform better in crysis 3, the hail mary game you are trying to convince us with. As posted by ashish65 the links for overclocking more than prooves your point moot. Leave everything now tell me in which other game is fx is better oh great prophet, and please speak only on current games, not the upcoming ones where I cant provide any benchmarks


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

The Incinerator said:


> Which one would you all buy....
> 
> *FX8350 + M5A97 Evo + HD 7970 OC = Rs 47100*
> 
> ...



Yep will get fx 8350 + 7970 anyday.gpu is all matter in gaming than cpu.



The Incinerator said:


> Intel Z77 mainboard or Z75m45Lk ?,now who would suggest that cheap mainboard with questionable build quality actually built by the untouchable Foxconn. We all know Intel is exiting Mainboard business,that is another reason to avoid it,warranty will be an issue.You are  cutting essential corners and suggesting cheap components to proove you point not good!



Dude no body has suggested here z75 mobo to go with i5 3570k cpu.

i suggested z75 mobo for non-oc cpu - i5 3470.even though mobo supports turbo boost.

Regarding price/performance in op's case with 60k budget i5 + 7950 is defiently wise option


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh and as far as your mobo problem goes, its not our falt that most amd cpu's have 125w tdp and need more vrm's to just run stably at stock. i5's dont need high frequencies or power to perform good. With intel its almost guaranteed any mobo will run at stock without throttling. With amd cheaper ones will burn if you put fx 8350 in them. An i7 can be accomondated on h61, cant say the same for amd can we? Of course not because it uses twice as much power!


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

@op Get Asus 24x dvd writer for 1k


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## Chaitanya (Jun 12, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> *Provide me any link that tri gate tech is the reason for lower clocks instead of cheap paste.*


Oh! lord fight is over pls...
FX8350+7970GHz will kill 
any i7 + 7950/7870xt in games



vaibhavs800 said:


> Oh and as far as your mobo problem goes, its not our falt that most amd cpu's have 125w tdp and need more vrm's to just run stably at stock. i5's dont need high frequencies or power to perform good. With intel its almost guaranteed any mobo will run at stock without throttling. With amd cheaper ones will burn if you put fx 8350 in them. An i7 can be accomondated on h61, cant say the same for amd can we? Of course not because it uses* twice as much power!*



Ah! please Check Wht you want to say ...(there are no VRMs theres just one Voltage regulator module - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Designers aren't lame enough to design a socket of 10W for a 125W proccy..
All MobO manufacturers do check this point in design stage itself...

BTW can't you recall old days of power hungry C2Q running on cheap MobOs??
Also according to my arithmetic 95*2 is not 125W
*neither* is 84*2 = 125W

FX 8350 consumes just 28.5% more as compared to IVY
& 48% as compared to Haswell So its nowhere near 200%


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 12, 2013)

Fyi intel and amd measure tdp in different ways.  An overclocked fx takes more than 200w underload.  I meant powerphase designs.  Intel proccy can run on 4+1 stably whereas amd cant.  Amd's low share+ high energy requirements result into no good enough mobo under 5k.


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## Cilus (Jun 12, 2013)

Yes, you are right. running a 8 Core FX-8350, only boards over 5K are recommended and for overclocking, the 6K + boards are advised. Intel does have an advantage if you are buying an very cheap mobo, provided you're not doing any overclocking. But the thing is Op's budget permits him to get a 7K Motherboard which can easily handle the highest end FX processors. So no point of  discussing that advantage here. 
It is not an AMD Vs Intel thread, it is all about what OP can get for his money.


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## avinandan012 (Jun 12, 2013)

ASHISH65 said:


> Huh? yes fx can oc with stock cooler to some extent.But in overall overclocking i5 and i7 will have edge anyday.
> 
> According to anandtech,Guru 3d,x-bit labs max oc they achieved for i5 was 4.7 while fx was 4.7-4.8
> 
> Fx 8350 comes factory clocked at 4.0Ghz. What if the 3570k were factory clocked at 4.0Ghz? it would Beaten the 8350 even more so.@stock i5 is faster than fx 8350 then Being that a 3570, 8350 all overclock to around 4.7Ghz/4.8ghz(fx), with the 8350 you can get a 0.8Ghz advantage, but with the 3570k you get a 1.3Ghz advantage.That's 0.5Ghz(500mhz) of an advantage the Intel's have over AMD



Then buddy by your logic why buy a i5 when you can overclock a P4 to 5GHz and be happy


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## BombayBoy (Jun 12, 2013)

Chaitanya said:


> Oh! lord fight is over pls...
> FX8350+7970GHz will kill
> any i7 + 7950/7870xt in games



if i can buy any i7, i can buy the 7970 as well
and i5 + 7970 is better VFM


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

avinandan012 said:


> Then buddy by your logic why buy a i5 when you can overclock a P4 to 5GHz and be happy



Dude read properly i did not said that what you mean.what i mean is if we overclock both i5 3570k and fx 8350 to 4.7/4.8ghz you will get 500 mhz advantage over fx 8350 as fx 8350 is already clocked @4.0ghz while i5 @3.4ghz.that benefit of 500 mhz is usefull in cpu intensive games + ipc (instruction per clock/cycle) of i5 is way better than fx 8350.so conclusion is i5 will be more faster than fx 8350.



BombayBoy said:


> if i can buy any i7, i can buy the 7970 as well
> and i5 + 7970 is better VFM



Agreed. very true

if anyone on budget or want Vfm yes fx 8350 is best for him as he will get better gpu.But there are people who have budget of 100k-150k so spending extra money on i5 rig will be not big deal as they will get slight faster cpu + low power consumption + less heat.


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## avinandan012 (Jun 12, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> Fyi intel and amd measure tdp in different ways. An overclocked fx takes more than 200w underload. I meant powerphase designs. Intel proccy can run on 4+1 stably whereas amd cant. Amd's low share+ high energy requirements result into no good enough mobo under 5k.


whoa that's a good comparison?
for AMD mobo you are taking into the account overclocking but for Intel stock clocks. err

BTW just compare a 6k AM3+ board with a 6k Intel board you will notice the difference.

@op unless you are going for a multi card setup you are pretty much safe & future proof with AMD



ASHISH65 said:


> Dude read properly i did not said that what you mean.what i mean is if we overclock both i5 3570k and fx 8350 to 4.7/4.8ghz you will get 500 mhz advantage over fx 8350 as fx 8350 is already clocked @4.0ghz while i5 @3.4ghz.that benefit of 500 mhz is usefull in cpu intensive games + ipc (instruction per clock/cycle) of i5 is way better than fx 8350.so conclusion is i5 will be more faster than fx 8350.
> 
> 
> Agreed. very true
> ...



how can you compare two different microarchitechture in clock-to-clock basis????



BombayBoy said:


> if i can buy any i7, i can buy the 7970 as well
> and i5 + 7970 is better VFM


if *budget is no issue *then get a i7(K haswell)+z87 + 780. You will be very much future proof(next generation) with that card & setup.

for lesser bill go with a i5 or 8350 with 780. I am saying 780 cause as you can see new AAA games(few) @full HD resolution with high details(not ultra) with last gen top of the line from both camps are getting below 50fps. At ultra dropping below 30(min).

But, then again at full hd with medium quality with x16AF graphics look very good for complaining. So a 7970(Gigabyte windforce version is too good) is also a very good choice.


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 12, 2013)

avinandan012 said:


> how can you compare two different microarchitechture in clock-to-clock basis????



Intel architechture is way better than amd.that is why you see in gaming intel cpu performs better than amd.The reason behind is Intel has superior *IPC*  than amd in past few years. The more IPC a CPU can execute per 1MHz, the faster it can potentially be.

IPC stands for  how much work can a CPU do per Ghz/Hz/etc. A CPU with a higher IPC can do more work, or be more powerful, than a CPU with a lower IPC if both are clocked the same.

An example would be how a 3Ghz Core i5 Quad can beat a 3 ghz phenom quad, as the i5 has a design with a higher IPC.

Hope you understand


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## The Incinerator (Jun 12, 2013)

I do not agree on your Instruction Per Cycle theory for the AMD and Intel. Could you elaborate a bit taking in to account the native architecture of the two AMD and Intel.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 13, 2013)

The Incinerator said:


> I do not agree on your Instruction Per Cycle theory for the AMD and Intel. Could you elaborate a bit taking in to account the native architecture of the two AMD and Intel.



Ipc is instructions per cycle,  which is different for amd and intel due to differences in their architecture.  Per cycle intel i series do a lot more work than amd.  Amd with higher clcoks and more cores try to negate this factor.  Ashish65 was right that if you take even a sb and ivy bridge processor at same clockspeed,  ivy will be around 10% faster and this is due to more efficient ipc. The same goes for piledriver and bulldozer.  But as can be seen by various benchmarks in gaming and links provided by ashish,  an i5 can reach same clockspeeds and games are not 8 threaded.  So both amd's strategies flunk and i5's smoke fx 8350. Amd's answer to everything is add more cores and increase clockspeed,  that is why fx are not at all efficient.  If we take sb which was at 95w on 32nm, There is still a big difference underload like 50w between fx and i series. I am not saying fx 8350 is crap,  it will and can win in highly multithreaded tasks against a normal i5 but gaming is not one of them.  And if we take a i5 3570k, with higher speeds its ipc will make it even more faster.  Ultimately its what benchmarks you choose between the two will influence your decision but for a normal prosumer,  i5 is fast enough in well threaded apps,  excellent in legacy programs and is more efficient wuth great performance in gaming.


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2013)

Lets not discuss about architecture and stuffs, just discuss what OP can get in his budget.
Just quoting from Incinerator's post


> FX8350 + M5A97 Evo + HD 7970 OC = Rs 47100
> 
> or
> 
> i5 3570K + Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H + HD7950 = Rs 48500




Which one looks better for Op's budget?
 And you are not taking one factor under consideration while stating about clock to clock performance, running a i5 3570K at 4 GHz speed, you need a cooler which will add another 2.5K. So lets consider the stock to stock performance for now.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Lets not discuss about architecture and stuffs, just discuss what OP can get in his budget.
> Just quoting from Incinerator's post
> 
> 
> ...



+10 For *HD 7970 OC* + FX8350


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 13, 2013)

are bhai, Op has budget of 60k only,how can he fit hd 7970 there


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2013)

Buddy, you are not getting the point. Whatever budget OP has, he can fit a better Graphics card with the AMD configuration which is actually crucial for gaming performance.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 13, 2013)

of AMD vs Intel fight..


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## varun004 (Jun 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Buddy, you are not getting the point. Whatever budget OP has, he can fit a better Graphics card with the AMD configuration which is actually crucial for gaming performance.


totally agree.


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## Chaitanya (Jun 13, 2013)

We need OP to say something..
Probably he is pwned by this very hot discussion


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Buddy, you are not getting the point. Whatever budget OP has, he can fit a better Graphics card with the AMD configuration which is actually crucial for gaming performance.



yes i know that,with amd you will better gpu

but iam talking about 60k budget of op


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 13, 2013)

I5 3570k was chosen because it is the most popular one in benches.  I dont know why you chose udh3 as an entry level mobo?  Extreme 3 could have zufficed. 

But my recommendation would still be i5 3450/3470 + z75mobo
Or
4th gen i5 with h87mobo which was actually right and the perfect choice from the beggining. 

On the gpu side the saved money can got to buying more ram,  hdd,  ssd, or gtx 770 which takes 40w less,  is more silent and has a gtx titan cooler ^_^
And i dont want any bench bs on this because gtx 770 performed 2% better or worse than hd 7970 ghz edition with day 1 drivers,  can be sli ed and we all know nvidia benefits ( adaptive aa and experience etc.)  The only thing is I am unsure about its availability but on the positive side newer is better and more exclusive 

And mind all of you,  all the benches I showed were on stock i5 3570k which is equal to i5 3470 and 4th gen haswell is 15% faster with 4 more bins to oc so will be equivalent or slightly better than 3570k oced


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## Chaitanya (Jun 14, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> gtx 770 which takes *40w less*



Any proof??


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## manuabraham (Jun 14, 2013)

Hey guys,

Sorry for the long delay in reply, was shifting to a new house. Anyway, I read some articles about AMD/INTEL and also NVIDIA cards and Sapphire cards. As per some reviews, sapphire cards are not as powerful as same range nvidia card, but i kinda have a feeling that some of it is marketing ploy.

As for this topic, no offense to any of you, I'm sure all of you are technically gifted and you have a solid base from which you give your suggestions, but in this case, I want to listen to cilus, he seems more certain about things. So its an AMD rig, it took a loong time reading through all the stuff that you guys posted :O. 
And to confirm once again -> 60k is maximum for me, I live in chennai now, and its bloody hot here, so I hope the rig is capable of handling this heat (even while gaming).

to add, I know there is something called SLI where you can put two cards together, I am interested in that because I will be able to purchase another card a few months after that ....


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## Cilus (Jun 14, 2013)

As per your query (through PM), you can easily go with the Sapphire HD 7970 VAPOR-X OC with boost version and no components needs to be updated for that. One thing you can do, get a 600W+ PSU for being on the safer side. Corsair GS600 or Seasonic SS12II 620 is the best choice and both are available within 5K range in local markets.

Also for the cards, 1st check local market please. I got mine at 21.3K including tax from Vedant Computer, Kolkata


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 14, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Sorry for the long delay in reply, was shifting to a new house. Anyway, I read some articles about AMD/INTEL and also NVIDIA cards and Sapphire cards. As per some reviews, *sapphire cards are not as powerful as same range nvidia card*, but i kinda have a feeling that some of it is marketing ploy.
> 
> ...


Buddy, Sapphire and Nvidia are two completely different things. Nvidia (and AMD) manufacture the GPU and Sapphire (and other companies) manufacture the graphic card and use Nvidia's or amd's GPU on them. Sapphire HD7970, Asus HD7970 or any other HD7970 all have identical GPUs; the difference is in the PCB, the extra features and components they put in the card. And of course in different cooler. There may be some specific company's card that may be faster than others, but thats just because tat company increased the base clock which you can do too very easily and thats called overclocking. So please, dont compare a chip manufacture with a card manufacture.


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## manuabraham (Jun 14, 2013)

Alright.. I was actually comparing nividia zotac card to a sapphire card...anyway...
Is it possible to have a cross fire set up (I think that's the word for 2 card's,if not, I'm sorry) in the future with the amd rig that u guys have mentioned


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 14, 2013)

manuabraham said:


> Alright.. I was actually comparing nividia zotac card to a sapphire card...anyway...
> Is it possible to have a cross fire set up (I think that's the word for 2 card's,if not, I'm sorry) in the future with the amd rig that u guys have mentioned


Using multiple Nvidia cards: SLI
Using multiple AMD cards: CrossFire or XFire.

What config are you going with?



manuabraham said:


> Alright.. I was actually comparing nividia zotac card to a sapphire card...anyway...
> Is it possible to have a cross fire set up (I think that's the word for 2 card's,if not, I'm sorry) in the future with the amd rig that u guys have mentioned


Using multiple Nvidia cards: SLI
Using multiple AMD cards: CrossFire or XFire.

What config are you going with?


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 14, 2013)

If you want a multi card setup get nvidia. Crossfire has serious issues right now.


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 14, 2013)

@op which components you decided?

 if you are going for for multigpus then,get Asus Direct cuii gtx 660ti 2gb @21k


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## varun004 (Jun 14, 2013)

in such a budget how is sli corssfire even possible ?


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 14, 2013)

varun004 said:


> in such a budget how is sli corssfire even possible ?



op is going to get a second gpu after few months


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## varun004 (Jun 14, 2013)

Out of 60k, 8k for monitor (22 inch 1080p) and 6k for 64 bit windows 7/8 licensed copy. Rest ~46k for building a crossfire/sli capable set up. What components are you suggesting for this within that budget ?


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## Cilus (Jun 14, 2013)

Then the Motherboard also needs to be updated to 990X or 990FX based Motherboard. M5A99FX PRO R2.0, around 10K is a good choice.


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## avinandan012 (Jun 14, 2013)

^+ and also ateast a 750W PSU


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## vkl (Jun 14, 2013)

Cilus said:


> I think you are right. There are couple of games like Battlefield 3, Crysis 2 and the latest Crysis 3 which are heavily optimized to use up to 8 Cores. Now due to the architecture in the current consoles, game developers will be happy to use multi-core optimization in the console version of the games which in turns enable them to port it very easily to PC as the underlying architecture for PC and Consoles are almost same...same x86 micro architecture.



Battlefield 3 SP is not that optimized for multiple cores.It is well optimized to use up to 4 cores.Crysis 2 is also not that optimized.
In crysis 3 both fx8350 and i5 3470 perform close.According to both techspot's test and tomshardware test they were quite close in average fps.Some portions benchmarked by different sites show fx8350 better than i5 35xx,those parts are mostly with vegetation.In crysis 3 part of rendering is off loaded to CPU,things like mesh merging,physical simulation etc are offloaded to CPU.




vaibhavs800 said:


> Ivy runs hotter because intel used cheap paste.  Else sandy bridge wont even give you that point.  Add to that that intel has a poorer cooler,  ivy has to run hotter.  But this is nothing a cm evo wont fix.  The clocks proposed on fx are also not on stock cooler.  And your point about amd's different philosophy is just bs.  First gen fx were clocked a lot lower.  If amd had any kind of advantage,  they will reduce tdp instead of frequency which is not clearly the case. I5 is better than gaming and not a single site will support your argument cilus. Amd sells better cooler because they have to dissipate a lot more heat and they cant ask for profit margins like intel.





Cilus said:


> *Ivy Bridge's problem is because of the TriGate Transistor used, not cheaper paste.*






varun004 said:


> *he is right about the cheap paste. Its all over ocn forums, they delidded the chip and applied different paste and saw huge temp drops. In some cases 20 to 30 degrees.* And games being multi core in future is true but i5 is fast enough to compete with 8-core amd cpus.



Well,ivy bridge running hotter at same clocks is not all down to the thermal paste.Sandy bridge parts used fluxless solder.
The IHS in Ivy bridge is not soldered on the die.From sandy to ivy the effective area has reduced and amount of heat/area is more.
The much cooler operation of ivy bridge processors after delidding is due to the _distance reduction between CPU die and IHS_.
The CPU TIM doesn't affect things that noticeably in the context(cooler operation of i7 3770k after delidding).
TriGate transistor design is fine.



Chaitanya said:


> Ah! please Check Wht you want to say ...(there are no VRMs theres just one Voltage regulator module - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
> Designers aren't lame enough to design a socket of 10W for a 125W proccy..
> All MobO manufacturers do check this point in design stage itself...
> 
> ...



That's not the way to calculate power consumption.Under load fx8350 consumes ~70-100Watts more than ivy i7 3770k.At higher overclocks the gap widens by much.That being said,idle state power consumptions are quite fine and they run cooler,it won't have a big impact on electric bills for some normal day to day usage.



vaibhavs800 said:


> On the gpu side the saved money can got to buying more ram,  hdd,  ssd, or gtx 770 which takes 40w less,  is more silent and *has a gtx titan cooler* ^_^
> And i dont want any bench bs on this because gtx 770 performed 2% better or worse than hd 7970 ghz edition with day 1 drivers,  can be sli ed and we all know nvidia benefits ( adaptive aa and experience etc.)  The only thing is I am unsure about its availability but on the positive side newer is better and more exclusive



Most Gtx770 by different vendors use their own coolers instead of the reference cooler(the one also used in gtx titan)  as it is pricier.


For single card set up i5 4430+hd7950 or fx8350+hd7950 some of the options.
For multi-GPU with fx8350,get a better board than M5A97(x16-x4 for crossfire),something like Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 rev. 3.0(x8-x8 for SLI/crossfire) ~9.2k or M5A99FX PRO(dual x16 for SLI/crossfire) would do.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 14, 2013)

@op as you can see, to go for a sli rig you need a 10k mobo, comparable one for intel is extreme 4. So now there wont be any huge cost savings these guys were bragging like before and you will get decreased fps across the board. So now your wish, do you want 8 core bragging rights or real gaming performance 

And actually msi just released some budget gaming mobos going by GA before their model numbers. I think GA 65 Something supported sli and got great reviews. Is around 8-9k I think on flipkart?


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## ASHISH65 (Jun 14, 2013)

@ op please tell your whole budget for pc so that we able to help you to get best components

you cannot get sli setup in 60k as you need better mobo and psu


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## Limitless (Jun 14, 2013)

I got CorsairGS600 at 4.8k locally and its the best!


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## varun004 (Jun 15, 2013)

@vkl sandy uses solder b/w chip and ihs.  the thermal conductivity of solder is far better than thermal paste. At ocn people who used a thermals paste callled coolaboratory its almost is a liquid metal paste had way better temps than generic thermal pastes. I mean if they just soldered that goddamn chip to ihs there would ve not been any heat problems.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 15, 2013)

varun004 said:


> @vkl sandy uses solder b/w chip and ihs.  the thermal conductivity of solder is far better than thermal paste. At ocn people who used a thermals paste callled coolaboratory its almost is a liquid metal paste had way better temps than generic thermal pastes b/w the tim and ihs.


true. SB used 'fluxless solder' between the chip and IHS. Ivy Bridge uses thermal paste instead. And its also true some many guys separated the IHS ans replaces the thermal paste by something I don't remember, and the temperatures were quite lower. Does haswell too used thermal paste instead of fluxless solder?


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## varun004 (Jun 15, 2013)

yes  and if anyone is buying haswell chips i strongly suggest not to it is so bad at overclocking ivy had heat problem at vcore above 1.3, haswell starts firing at 1.25. The overclocking is complicated with chip with memory. Go for ivy 5-10% perfromance increase is not worth all this problems. Ivy chips are cheaper mobo are cheaper and are a year old with better dies. Go for chips manufactured in costa rica they are known to overclock better.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 15, 2013)

varun004 said:


> yes  and if anyone is buying haswell chips i strongly suggest not to it is so bad at overclocking ivy had heat problem at vcore above 1.3, haswell starts firing at 1.25. The overclocking is complicated with chip with memory. Go for ivy 5-10% perfromance increase is not worth all this problems. Ivy chips are cheaper mobo are cheaper and are a year old with better dies. Go for chips manufactured in costa rica they are known to overclock better.



Actully haswell performs approx 15% faster so at 4ghz,  ivy needs to be clocked at 4.6ghz to match it. Every site I read till now clocked their i7 atleast at  4.4ghz, mostly 4.6-4.7. That kind of jump cant be beaten by overclocking + z87 mobos are a lot better.  So I think the early buyer premium is justified by a grand or two.


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## harshilsharma63 (Jun 15, 2013)

vaibhavs800 said:


> Actully *haswell performs approx 15% faster so at 4ghz,  ivy needs to be clocked at 4.6ghz to match it.* Every site I read till now clocked their i7 atleast at  4.4ghz, mostly 4.6-4.7. That kind of jump cant be beaten by overclocking + z87 mobos are a lot better.  So I think the early buyer premium is justified by a grand or two.


And how did you get to that?


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## varun004 (Jun 15, 2013)

@vaibhavs800 in gaming its almost negligible. intel itself say 10% where did you get that 14% from.


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## vaibhavs800 (Jun 15, 2013)

harshilsharma63 said:


> And how did you get to that?


Uhmm by taking 15% of 4.4 and adding XP

Actually the second gen chips clock the highest.  Most haswell chips should atleast get 4.3-4.4ghz reported by intel itself.  Haswell was around 4.4-4.5, so its a modest 100mhz downclock. 

Haswell can be anything from lower single digits to 20% faster said by anandtech. Especially in quick sync supported tasks it can be even faster.  Z87 boards get addition 4 sata 6gbps ports.  With probably support for another generation,  these think easily value over 2k. I would have given 2k myself for sata ports only as I am already running two 128gb ssd. 

What's a major issue that just came to my eye limited overclocking on non k i5 and i7 proccys gone :-\ Why intel why??


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## vkl (Jun 16, 2013)

varun004 said:


> @vkl *sandy uses solder b/w chip and ihs.  the thermal conductivity of solder is far better than thermal paste*. At ocn people who used a thermals paste callled coolaboratory its almost is a liquid metal paste had way better temps than generic thermal pastes. I mean if they just soldered that goddamn chip to ihs there would ve not been any heat problems.



Yeah,that's what I wrote and implied.
This is a very informative thread on that:Delidded my i7-3770K, loaded temperatures drop by 20°C at 4.7GHz
After delidding the temperature drops like 20 degree Celsius and more are a direct result of distance reduction between CPU die and IHS.You will notice that the default TIM even outperformed noctua NT-H1 in those tests.Yes,a better TIM would see some degree drop in temperatures.But majority of drop comes from distance reduction in case of ivy bridge.

Had soldering been used in place of TIM paste,or IHS to CPU die gap was lesser then it would have been much better.They wanted to cheap out or cut cost,mostly a cost cutting measure or may be to reduce design complexity.


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