# Sony Ericsson Posts Fourth Consecutive Quarterly Loss



## desiibond (Jul 17, 2009)

Mobile handset maker Sony Ericsson Thursday posted a narrower than expected net loss for the second quarter, but sales remained well down, hit by continued weak consumer spending and the company's failure to bring high-end smartphones to market quickly enough.   Sony Ericsson posted a EUR213 million net loss for the three months to June 30, down from a EUR6 million profit the previous year but better than analysts' expectations for a EUR298 million loss, partly on lower restructuring charges. 
 The report marks Sony Ericsson's fourth consecutive quarterly loss, although the result improved on the EUR293 ...


source: *online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090716-703504.html


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## vamsi_krishna (Jul 17, 2009)

poor sony, being pwned by apple and nokia. BTW, sony has also posted losses in electronic department. god bless you sony..


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## sujoyp (Jul 17, 2009)

Sony Ericsson should listen to consumers...y always experiment...if everyone wants a 3.5mm jack,sd card and usb charger just give it ....y delay the things and invite trouble.

I being a great fan of SE always got frustated by there proprietary port.

Hope W995,Satio,Aino will do some good


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## amitabhishek (Jul 17, 2009)

^^ +1; If SE had their way then even our commode would have been proprietary.


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## sakil.ahmed64 (Jul 17, 2009)

exhorbitant pricing for xperia and not having too many options in the business segment.. that has done the trick


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## desiibond (Jul 17, 2009)

Main problem lies in their products inside 6k-20k segment. no real competitor to Nokia and samsung.


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## sujoyp (Jul 17, 2009)

desiibond said:


> Main problem lies in their products inside 6k-20k segment. no real competitor to Nokia and samsung.



I would say 6k to 12k is good for SE with c510 and g502 and many...even my T700 has good sound and looks fabulous. I see main problem lies from 15-25k which is dominated only by nokia.

SE have to consider Smartphones...they lag in this department


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## sandeepkochhar (Jul 17, 2009)

The most unexperimental company deserves to be in losses. I am happy


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## Tamoghno (Jul 17, 2009)

Typical sony DNA of overpricing and propietory things is what destroyimg sony(ericsson) .

But thankfully this is changing. I hope se dont die . They are the reason why we have good usable cameraphones .


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

@sandeep- Doesnt look nice coming from you.At least they are trying. What are motorola doing?? 
SE have the most powerful handsets lined up for Q4. By 2010 the recession should be controllable. Lets see what happens then. Btw, i have news that SE are developing a touch OS of their own and it somewhat resembles the Racheal UI we saw in the video.


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## sujoyp (Jul 18, 2009)

*Some good news for SE fans*

Vodafone UK's best sellers:
*1.	  Nokia N97 32GB 
2.	  Nokia 5800 XpressMusic 
3.	  Sony Ericsson W595 
4.	  Sony Ericsson C510  
5.	  Samsung S8000 Jet 
6.	  Samsung S8300 Tocco Ultra Edition 
7.	  Samsung L810 Steel 
8.	  Nokia 6300 
9.	  BlackBerry Storm 9500 
10.	HTC Magic
*


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

^^The reasons SE are suffering:-

1)No touchscreen models. The X1 being a premium model couldnt generate enough sales.
2)Lack of good low end models. Most countries are cutting down on cell-phones and are going for low-cost models which SE lack seriously. 
3) Lack of Qwerty models.
4) Lack of smartphones.

Touchscreens should be there aplenty by the end of this year.
Low ends have never been SE's forte and i dont expect them to fare any better here. If the prices dip they may enter the sement. 
There will be a series of Qwerty models to be introduced.
Well, android. need i say more??


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

With the amount of money they are losing and the way they are shedding headcount , i wonder how they would run their RnD . 

Anybody got any news of motorola ?


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

They have Sony and Ericsson behind them. Not a worry. Also they have a balance of 965 million euros stacked up in their bank.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

Not sure about financial condition of erricson , but sony also lost 1.4billion dollar last year . 

I truly wish se survive this crisis though !


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## desiibond (Jul 18, 2009)

PS3 is really killing them!!!


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 18, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> They have Sony and Ericsson behind them. Not a worry. Also they have a balance of 965 million euros stacked up in their bank.


SE shut down a big big division in RTP, Raleigh, USA. One of my professors (who is considered the God of RF/Wireless in the whole of East Coast) left my university to join SE only to return back!!

They are in a mess right now. I'm an SE fan too, but they only haf themselves to blame for the soup they are in!


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

Yep. They are in a mess. But who isnt??  the downturn has left giants such as GMs and Citi in bare waters. Problem with SE is that they dint look into the future. If only they had come up with a good non-smart touch platform before the downturn hit, they would have heaped dividends now.


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## sujoyp (Jul 18, 2009)

but I still dont see things improving....
Satio's prime area is its 12mp cam soo its price will be like xperia again it dont have 3.5mm jack
Aino looks good but not a full touch mobile.....SE where is the 5800 competitor???

SE android mobile Rachel seems to be touch HD competitor...soo will be quit costly.

I want Satio type SE mobile with 5/8mp cam and same hardware @ 22k....would be killer


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## sandeepkochhar (Jul 18, 2009)

@ dream:- Motorola have the guts to launch Moto Aura a luxury phone even when they are in neck deep ****..It needs iron balls to do so..Aura once again added another first to the already humongous initiatives from the house of Moto..Aura is the first luxury phone having hundreds of gears to power the swivel movement of circular(which is another first by the way ) watch like display..You can't take the credit from Moto for their pure risk taking experimental ability and giving mobile world something which was never seen before..


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

^^Completely agree . Motorola makes best hardware in market ,even the zn5 had  500mhz procy.all they need is half decent software . If they can launch zn5 like hardware with android , there's no reason moto wont have a hit. Also  remember moto's other divison is actually making money .


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Jul 18, 2009)

SE has made loss, it did not reach out the n00b section. The majority of the market that is. The common people !
Unlike we geeks, we know that in the price range 8-12 SE is the best. Like k790, k810, T700, w610, w580 etc. This is endless list.

And they divided camera and music, unlike nokia, they combined both in phones like N73M and N95 etc.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

LOLWUT?? What about Aura?? yea its a premium product but wat?? How many people are interested in it?? If you dunno, the W550 and the W900 were the first swivel phones in the market from SE and were a landmark in their time. Everyone can bring out costly and so-called premium products. Aint a big deal. SE is there with OMAP, Snapdragon and possibly tegra in its following launches. Lets not compare SE to moto. Moto thrives on its CDMA market while SE on gsm.


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## sandeepkochhar (Jul 18, 2009)

Motorola Thrives on CDMA. It could be great headline for India TV. Hilarious. OK I agree that unlike SE they have the capability of producing CDMA phones also along with GSM but I am truly at loss of words at the Statement. And the thing is not about Premium/Non Premium It's About INNOVATION. 

Motorola had always played the role of innovator and rest being imitators. "Slim is in" was Motorola’s effort when phones like Razr, L5,L6 etc made the world think that mobiles are not only utility things but also fashion statement. 

The clamshell design which was rather unacceptable before was popularized by Razr series. Linux which has no taker in Mobile OS World was made to work effortlessly by models like Rokr series. 

Touch screen devices which were thought to be Rich man devices were brought to Economy class by the launch of models like Rokr E6 and lately A810. 

The unique e-ink technology for display was propagated by Motorola F3 and F3C. 

Unique morphing keypads were launched in ZN5 and EM30. 

ZN5 is the only phone which is as good in camera department as it is in music capability whereas its competition either focuses on camera or in music. 

The list is almost unending and Motorola has given so many firsts in mobile manufacturing that it is almost impossible to remember all of them.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

What about innovation?? What is innovative in the AURA?? The swivel design has been there for ages.

There nothing innovative about the Zn5 either. The tinny software in the phones make them almost unusable. So it doesnt matter what hardware they use. And yea dude. their GSM market has gone down the drains and they are thriving over their market presence in china and in the cdma regions.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> LOLWUT?? What about Aura?? yea its a premium product but wat?? How many people are interested in it?? If you dunno, the W550 and the W900 were the first swivel phones in the market from SE and were a landmark in their time. Everyone can bring out costly and so-called premium products. Aint a big deal. SE is there with OMAP, Snapdragon and possibly tegra in its following launches. Lets not compare SE to moto. Moto thrives on its CDMA market while SE on gsm.



Wow , you are comparing w550 with aura ! I'm speechless. Whats next ? comparing maruti with Rolls Royce becausw both have four wheels ?

Come back when se can engineer something like razr2 / zn5 . Heck , se cant even get good voice clarity .


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

What?? Why would anyone like to engineer the Zn5 anyway?? And the Razr was the phone that sold moto. They tried to copy/paste but couldnt succeed. Anyways thats beyond the topic. When SE and others are onto 12mps moto is till stuck at 5.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> There nothing innovative about the Zn5 either.



You know , the things n86 brags about , like mechanical shutter , variable aperture , were already in zn5 . Have you seen the shot to shot time of zn5 ? No nokia can touch it , forget about SE . Add to that good music , 3.5mm jack , AWESOME build ...

You know that moto lacks in OS only . OS is the reason zn5 dont even have 3g. Now what moto starts putting android in their phone ? We have a winner .


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## sandeepkochhar (Jul 18, 2009)

There is not one but many uniqueness's in Aura. Most important being It's is the World's first Circular display Mobile Phone. No other company has managed to achieve this. Secondly it is inspired by high end mechanical watches. Hence, like in mechanical watches, it's movement is purely hand crafted gear movement which is not an easy task to do. Moreover, just go through any of the detailed reviews, you'll get to know hundred's of design innovations. 
Accept it that no other company Not even mighty Nokia is even close to What we call Revolution in mobile world. They are Evolutionary; Moto is Revolutionary and being one is not bed of roses; but Moto will rise up from the ashes and rule the world once again..


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## desiibond (Jul 18, 2009)

@sandeep, what is the use in making a 10000$ phone when your company is not able to sell phones that are sold in market. moto aura could be having innovation but who cares? who buys such insanely priced phones?? maybe 1 in a billion?
That won't do any good for company. make a phone that is considered for buying by 2 out of 10 buyers and that makes you a top brand.


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## vamsi_krishna (Jul 18, 2009)

Actually, It's the way sony goes. Sony always sell their prices at premium. Consider PlaySation segments,LCD tvs,DVD players,earphones. Name it, you have it. The reason is the quality of their products. I personally have many sony items and i don't have a problem till now for any of them. The only concern is that their product rates would be lower.

I almost ZOMGed. When i saw every sony department posting losses, except the computer entertainment wing.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 18, 2009)

You havent seen the shots taken by the C901 then. It trumps the Zn5 in every possible way.Anyways. The Zn5 looks crap and has pathetic java implementation. I wouldnt waste my money on that. I would rather have some awesome capuchin(java+flash) apps running on my phones than nothing at all.
Android, which SE and Sony will be developing jointly will hopefully bring back SE to better shades. 

Oh as for the Aura. Expect the BRAVIA phone with WXGA OLED screen to be announced anytime soon and which holds a free hinged display(can be held at any position).


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## Tamoghno (Jul 18, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> The Zn5 looks crap and has pathetic java implementation.



zn5 looks pathetic ! You sound pathetic . See yourself an eye doctors .



> Android, which SE and Sony will be developing jointly



I seriously doubt that you know ANYTHING about android.



> Oh as for the Aura. Expect the BRAVIA phone with WXGA OLED screen to be announced anytime soon and which holds a free hinged display(can be held at any position).



proves that you know NOTHING about premium phones , which is aura's target market. As a quick lesson let me tell you Premium phone is not about features , its about uniqueness , exclusivity etc also a little insane pricing. A good example is 8800 , mediocre phone featurewise but a successful premium phone.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 19, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> zn5 looks pathetic ! You sound pathetic . See yourself an eye doctors .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zn5 looks pathetic and thats a fact. I dont see why you keep whining over that matter.

You dunno anything about cellphones and nor about OS'es and keep blabbering S*** to prove yourself correct.

Dude. The AURA isnt generating sales anywhere. Moto could have done better trying to build a few mid-end phones than this one.

Th BRAVIA phone will come with a rotatable display which hasnt been seen outside japan and will be made of premium materials with low imagery features and non-existent smartphone features.


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## Ecstasy (Jul 19, 2009)

What a low blow for Sony...


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## utsav (Jul 19, 2009)

@ dreamy 

will u please stop using these funny terms ?? 

BRAVIA , WXGA , and etc etc etc 

gimme a gr8 phone with symbian S60 or andriod and i will buy it wid closed eyes


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## sujoyp (Jul 19, 2009)

utsav said:


> gimme a gr8 phone with symbian S60 or andriod and i will buy it wid closed eyes



+1 with u...Actually I too think that a good OS paired with comparable hardware will be a sure shot hit...
Look at the number of people waiting for Satio and HTC hero..

BTW after looking at lots of videos of Touchscreen mobiles...I came to conclusion that still there is lot of improvement to be done....None of them is smooth enough and somewhat stuck at one place or other..which is not a problem in non-touchscreen devices.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 20, 2009)

sujoyp said:


> BTW after looking at lots of videos of Touchscreen mobiles...I came to conclusion that still there is lot of improvement to be done....None of them is smooth enough and somewhat stuck at one place or other..which is not a problem in non-touchscreen devices.



Same here . I hated winmo because of their laggy nature. But after i bought 5800 i really missed the instantinious interface of fp1 phones. Iphone was good at v1 but become slower as the firmware evolved and v3 is actually quite slow with iphone2g. Even the palm pre with mighty omap3430 is slow. Add to that touchscreens delicate nature and you'll realise that touchscreen isn't for everyone.


But even then i find the latest android phones are hard to resist. The HTC's hero have an amazing and very well thought interface (and unlike winmo counterpart android is pretty good even without skinning). The amount of innovation touchscreen is getting these days , i fear touchscreen might be the next 'granted' features(like camera now) of cellphones.


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## sujoyp (Jul 20, 2009)

^^yah u r right...HTC hero looks smoother then other...but y HTC android devices have a chin like design y not the standard design....


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 20, 2009)




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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 20, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> .Anyways. The Zn5 looks crap and has pathetic java implementation. I wouldnt waste my money on that. I would rather have some awesome capuchin(java+flash) apps running on my phones than nothing at all.




Ya zn5 looks are a bit downside but that does not make it a crap phone as suggested . 
For me a good phone is which has a good OS and hardware which many of SE mid range phones lack and hence their loss in market . Xperia certainly has a good piece of hardware but how many people think it is worth more then 30k . ( NO OFFENCE ) 
I am really inclined towards good  OS hence got my self an ipod touch and SE k810 . I can honestly say that k810 cannot fulfill my multimedia needs but on the other hand it is a good phone with good camera .


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 20, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> Android, which SE and Sony will be developing jointly will hopefully bring back SE to better shades.
> 
> Oh as for the Aura. Expect the BRAVIA phone with WXGA OLED screen to be announced anytime soon and which holds a free hinged display(can be held at any position).



YA and when these phones will be released they will have a price tag of a motorbike .


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 20, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> . Iphone was good at v1 but become slower as the firmware evolved and v3 is actually quite slow with iphone2g.


I have found good overall increase in performance with the latest 3.0 version firmware release . You  cannot conclude with what some other people on other forum say . Most people are using pirated version of 3.0 firmware and also jailbreaking their devices , if not done correctly then they are sure to face probs .


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## raj_in (Jul 20, 2009)

i am happy,,,,,,
not really a SE fan bcoz of there battery end of story.............
If i was dor best colours on a phone wud be the first to say SE rocks bcoz i think they some so the bst looking phone but lack the power in the long run,,,,,,,


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 20, 2009)

How many phones in the market that sported a full qwerty and WM costed less than 30k?? And btw, your prayers have been answered. its 29k now. 

And yea dude. I would expect people to pay a premium for devices that have a 1 ghz proccy,512 mb ram and android running on it. Ah well, if you cant afford it, just sit and stare, but talk BS.

And anyways, SE has better midends in the market right now than Nokia/samsung. The loss is due t the lack of low ends and no hold in the cdma market which is booming due to recession.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 21, 2009)

rohan_mhtr said:


> I have found good overall increase in performance with the latest 3.0 version firmware release . You  cannot conclude with what some other people on other forum say . Most people are using pirated version of 3.0 firmware and also jailbreaking their devices , if not done correctly then they are sure to face probs .



Yeah its true that i have given my conclusion from forums and video reviews . But dont forget iPhone 2g uses a lower mhz procy compared to  your ipod touch , so maybe its why you have better experience than iphone users.

Btw , i dont believe (and never seen any prove) that pirated software runs slower than legit version. its just a crap bullshit that micro$oft wants you to believe. (jailbraking may have bad effect though)


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## Tamoghno (Jul 21, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> How many phones in the market that sported a full qwerty and WM costed less than 30k?? And btw, your prayers have been answered. its 29k now.



agreed . winmo is always way too costly for its featurset/capability . 



> And yea dude. I would expect people to pay a premium for devices that have a 1 ghz proccy,512 mb ram and android running on it. Ah well, if you cant afford it, just sit and stare, but talk BS.



thats the point . if people cant afford it than it wont sell enough to make money . xperia was a good example. Also phone with this type of hardware is already in market (toshiba g101) with more from htc and sammy coming very soon . So dont expect it to be a runaway success. Bottomline: while this type of phone may increase se's image , dont expect it to make much money




> And anyways, SE has better midends in the market right now than Nokia/samsung. The loss is due t the lack of low ends and no hold in the cdma market which is booming due to recession.



True for india , but not for worldwide market. About cdma market , 100% true , but look at RIMs phones  average price , i wonder do they even make money with handset !


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## Tamoghno (Jul 21, 2009)

sujoyp said:


> but y HTC android devices have a chin like design y not the standard design....



I personally always liked the 'chin' . I think it gave the phone an identity. And i've read that htc hero is prayed for its ergonomics.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 21, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> Zn5 looks pathetic and thats a fact. I dont see why you keep whining over that matter.


I agree with you on this. ZN5 is not a beauty contest winner. But that phone has some real good things under the hood.



Tamoghno said:


> Iphone was good at v1 but become slower as the firmware evolved and v3 is actually quite slow with iphone2g. Even the palm pre with mighty omap3430 is slow. Add to that touchscreens delicate nature and you'll realise that touchscreen isn't for everyone.


I disagree with all of your points here. I've lived with everything you've mentioned here and my experience has been otherwise. Both iPhone/iTouch (all generations) haf been snappy with all the firmwares I've used with. Palm Pre is very much responsive and the touchscreen implementation on all of these 3 devices is excellent.



Tamoghno said:


> But even then i find the latest android phones are hard to resist. The HTC's hero have an amazing and very well thought interface (and unlike winmo counterpart android is pretty good even without skinning). The amount of innovation touchscreen is getting these days , i fear touchscreen might be the next 'granted' features(like camera now) of cellphones.


I haf access to some internal builds for HTC Hero and I'm amazed at how HTC's tweaked the overall OS. Its so much better than Samsung and other builds. HTC I believe tweaks most of the hardware drivers.



rohan_mhtr said:


> Ya zn5 looks are a bit downside but that does not make it a crap phone as suggested.


I agree.



rohan_mhtr said:


> For me a good phone is which has a good OS and hardware...


I agree, again.



rohan_mhtr said:


> ... which many of SE mid range phones lack and hence their loss in market.


I disagree on the hardware part. SE hardware is in the best of the league in any price bracket. Its just that they stuck to their proprietary OS and memory stick even for mid-high end phones. Nokia was smart enuf to gobble up Symbian at the rite time.



rohan_mhtr said:


> Most people are using pirated version of 3.0 firmware and also jailbreaking their devices , if not done correctly then they are sure to face probs .


There is NO pirated 3.0. How can you possible pirate something thats free?!?! (to iPhone users) and in case of iTouch users, what is the difference b/w pirated 3.0 and legal 3.0? Its not an editable image that you can inject some trojan or something into the image. Its the same image. Yes, jailbreaking and using software like backgrounder etc. may slow down things.



dreamcatcher said:


> And anyways, SE has better midends in the market right now than Nokia/samsung. The loss is due t the lack of low ends and no hold in the cdma market which is booming due to recession.


SE makes low end phones but they are really really crappy and fragile (I've had a couple of those). In the low end segment I would definitely prefer a Nokia anyday due to its sturdiness. In the mid range I would go in for an SE anyday. In the high end I would expect features like a nice touchscreen (the SE P series was a joke!) and would surely go in for any HTC device than Nokia or SE. SE has nice hardware but it should stop being stubborn and adopt android or S60 (if possible to license from Nokia) in the Rs.15k+ segment.

Btw, at least here in the US nobody buys Nokia CDMA. People go in for high end phones by LG, HTC, Palm etc.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 21, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> I disagree on the hardware part. SE hardware is in the best of the league in any price bracket. Its just that they stuck to their proprietary OS and memory stick even for mid-high end phones. Nokia was smart enuf to gobble up Symbian at the rite time.



I thought hardware is the reason se couldn't come up with any vga video recording camera till now. Also se never used any special hardware/dsp for most of their walkman phone(and last few generations of nokia have better sound than walkman).

About the speed of pre/iPhone , they are good but certainly not at the level of symbian non touchscreens that i was comparing with. My point was touchscreen in generel feels slow , even 5800 is quite slow then other nokias.

No offence dude , but i smell typical american mindset of 'nokia is only for low end , se is king of midrange , and touchscreen is god of em all' in your post.


Btw , whats up people with zn5's looks . I was so damn impressed at first look that i  asked a complete stranger who was buying that phone to take a look at it . The fit and finnish is unmatched in 5mp catagory.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 21, 2009)

Well thats the point. SE did not see the recession coming and stuck to the success of the K750/w800 and went on revealing hordes of copy/paste phones to flood the market. This resulted in more people getting diversified to more product groups which basically serve the same purpose. The mid-end market was totally dominated by the likes of the K790/k800 and now in the form of the C510.

And this is what I was trying to say all this while..

Look at this article.



> Sony Ericsson has been boosted by strong sales of the W995 as it prepares to unveil an Xperia-branded Android handset.
> 
> Retail sources have informed Mobile that the W995 has been ‘flying off the shelves’ in its first month of release, after Sony Ericsson gave the device a £5m marketing push.
> 
> ...



*www.mobiletoday.co.uk/phonenews.as...kfxmen_noscript=1&ekfxmensel=e0fa05763_38_408

SE unlike LG will always remain a premium cell-phone brand. LG is up and running due to its enormous CDMA portfolio which has been on the upside as the downturn went more public. A good phone from SE with the market in a better position is sure to outsell many. What I would expect from SE now is to stick to their current mid-end portfolio or maybe add a few cheap 5 mp phones with xenon flash. A couple of cheap smartphones and not rehashes like Nokia does all the time. A mid-end smatphone is enough to generate sales for a long time.

Also their high end folio is pretty stacked up.With the imminent arrival of the Racheal and  the Satio and the X2, their high end segment will be more diversified than any other company.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 21, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> I thought hardware is the reason se couldn't come up with any vga video recording camera till now. Also se never used any special hardware/dsp for most of their walkman phone(and last few generations of nokia have better sound than walkman).


To date I've found SE phones to be better in terms of hardware - the speed, the quality. But then to each his own!



Tamoghno said:


> About the speed of pre/iPhone , they are good but certainly not at the level of symbian non touchscreens that i was comparing with. My point was touchscreen in generel feels slow , even 5800 is quite slow then other nokias.


Thats what I said, I feel otherwise 



Tamoghno said:


> No offence dude , but i smell typical american mindset of 'nokia is only for low end , se is king of midrange , and touchscreen is god of em all' in your post.


I dunno where you heard about "typical american mindset" that "nokia is only for low end". People here do buy Nokia phones. In fact, the normal people here don't even care what handset they haf, coz mostly its the SE or LG handsets which are bundled free with the connection. I said that coz I feel only their low end phones haf the muscle. again... its me...



dreamcatcher said:


> Well thats the point. SE did not see the recession coming and stuck to the success of the K750/w800 and went on revealing hordes of copy/paste phones to flood the market. This resulted in more people getting diversified to more product groups which basically serve the same purpose. The mid-end market was totally dominated by the likes of the K790/k800 and now in the form of the C510.


Unless SE switches to S60 or Android, I don't see the "informed" buyer using mid-range SE phones.



Tamoghno said:


> SE unlike LG will always remain a premium cell-phone brand. LG is up and running due to its enormous CDMA portfolio which has been on the upside as the downturn went more public. A good phone from SE with the market in a better position is sure to outsell many. What I would expect from SE now is to stick to their current mid-end portfolio or maybe add a few cheap 5 mp phones with xenon flash. A couple of cheap smartphones and not rehashes like Nokia does all the time. A mid-end smatphone is enough to generate sales for a long time.
> 
> Also their high end folio is pretty stacked up.With the imminent arrival of the Racheal and  the Satio and the X2, their high end segment will be more diversified than any other company.


In the US, SE is NOT a premium brand. Nobody buys SE phones. They sell only coz they are given free with the connection. I am yet to see a passionate person going to the store and "buying" an SE phone!


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 21, 2009)

I am not talking about the US.With the introduction of the C905a at a price of 180$s hopefully the market will be more endearing towards SE. The Satio is slated for a Verizon(CDMA) and an At&t launch latest by December which should also boost sales going to Christmas. Acc to me, the phones that boom in the US are generally flips or qwertys.


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 21, 2009)

@tamaogno-Well, the W995 sure took care of that. It is the best sounding phone in the market now according to all reviews.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 21, 2009)

dreamcatcher said:


> @tamaogno-Well, the W995 sure took care of that. It is the best sounding phone in the market now according to all reviews.



W995 is a good phone . But with launch of N86, it wont see runaway success anymore .

C905@ $179 is ridiculas price . Its priced above many good smartphone (like e71) .


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## dreamcatcher (Jul 21, 2009)

At least its out of stock in the UK and further pending orders. 

I would be damned if the N86 is a huge success. Its the same old Nokia slider with the same looks + an 8mp cam on board which isnt the best either.


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## k4ce (Jul 21, 2009)

no smart fone = no sales . atleast at 14k plus range 

i dont understand why SE fanboys belt nokia and samsung fones ... if se was really that gud , why arent ppl buying em ???


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 22, 2009)

k4ce said:


> no smart fone = no sales . *atleast at 14k plus range*


Exactly my point. 



k4ce said:


> i dont understand why SE fanboys belt nokia and samsung fones ... if se was really that gud , why arent ppl buying em ???


Not quite convincing. "If Chrome is that good, why are most ppl still using IE?" Sounds similar??!! At least in India, in the low end market I've seen people blindly buying Nokia even tho some of them are really very crappy as compared to Samsung/SE/or whatever.

One device that I absolutely love is the Nokia 5800.


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## yogi7272 (Jul 22, 2009)

N86 wont be a success!.. hee hee . what a joke..  I think this same guy said this abt N82 way back in jan 2008 and look what happened to his beloved cybercrap...I dont need to tell the model no though ..now do I ? N86 is the best non-touch screen phone available in the market now ..no se can come close..period.. My friends own c905 and w995 and I know first hand how they sound..

Until se can come with good smartphones which does not cost arm and leg to own,  they are crap in my book ..


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## RMN (Jul 22, 2009)

SE can boost sales with very simple things like SD card Supp. and 3.5mm jacks,many users are turning away frm SE for these simple reasons.


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## Tamoghno (Jul 22, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> Not quite convincing. "If Chrome is that good, why are most ppl still using IE?" Sounds similar??!! At least in India, in the low end market I've seen people blindly buying Nokia even tho some of them are really very crappy as compared to Samsung/SE/or whatever.
> 
> One device that I absolutely love is the Nokia 5800.



You cant compare software analogy to compare hardware . In case of chrome , most people wont even care about their browser because they already have one . And most common man dont even realize that they have a choice . Forget chrome , even the mighty firefox have only ~23%marketshare.

In case of cellphone , most people dont have a default choice , people either choose by comparing specs , or use their past experience . Remember nokia have very bad marketshare with cdma handset because most people opt for cheap huwehai (?) or LG . But when consumer actually gets to choose handsets (unbundled) nokia have 70%+ marketsharw in cdma.


Btw , 5800 is , in my opinion , one of the worst device i ever bought from nokia , only good thing is its feature/price ratio.


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 22, 2009)

No need  replying to this thread anymore . I was trying to convince some SE fans the reason for the loss of SE in market but instead they are making a huge fight of it and insulting fellow digitians .. Even in all previous threads regarding such topics fights break out in SE fans for no reason at all . 
 For me a best phone is that with good Hardware as well as a good OS irrespective of its brand . And who said people cant afford high end phones from SE , but is it worth it , was n96 a success ? Why has iphone sales jumped even with the price tag of a bike . I am myself going to buy iphone 3gs by the end of augaust and post its review on this forum itself . And for dream dude , you better mind your language or this means another ban for you , i had never offended you .


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 22, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> Btw , i dont believe (and never seen any prove) that pirated software runs slower than legit version. its just a crap bullshit that micro$oft wants you to believe. (jailbraking may have bad effect though)


Dude do you know how much hastle has to be faced to run pirated apps on iphone firmware 3.0 . If jailbreaking is not done properly there is decrease in performance of the devise and this is the reason why most people are complaining about 3.0 . Anyway we are not dealing with microsoft here but Mac OS instead .
-Peace


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 22, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> You cant compare software analogy to compare hardware . In case of chrome , most people wont even care about their browser because they already have one . And most common man dont even realize that they have a choice . Forget chrome , even the mighty firefox have only ~23%marketshare.
> 
> In case of cellphone , most people dont have a default choice , people either choose by comparing specs , or use their past experience . Remember nokia have very bad marketshare with cdma handset because most people opt for cheap huwehai (?) or LG . But when consumer actually gets to choose handsets (unbundled) nokia have 70%+ marketsharw in cdma.
> 
> ...


I'm not giving an analogy. I'm trying to drive home the point that in the low end segment nokia is the default choice. And there is nothing wrong, coz yes LG/samsung/SE phones may or may not haf better features but IMHO the build quality of nokia is the best.



rohan_mhtr said:


> No need  replying to this thread anymore . I was trying to convince some SE fans the reason for the loss of SE in market but instead they are making a huge fight of it and insulting fellow digitians ..


I dunno whom you are pointing out but there is no doubt that its SE which is to be blamed for getting into this mess. They must accept certain things (like S60/android, microSD etc.) and shed the proprietary cloak if they wanna increase their sales.



rohan_mhtr said:


> Dude do you know how much hastle has to be faced to run pirated apps on iphone firmware 3.0.


You just need to replace MobileInstallation file to do this. There is no hassle! 



rohan_mhtr said:


> If jailbreaking is not done properly there is decrease in performance of the devise and this is the reason why most people are complaining about 3.0 . Anyway we are not dealing with microsoft here but Mac OS instead .
> -Peace


There is question of "jailbreaking not done properly". Either you jailbreak or you don't. You don't do anything, its the pwnagetool or quickpwn or the other stuff which ready the custom firmware. You only flash your phone. If flashed properly you phone works, if not then it doesn't. There is no intermediate stage!


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 22, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> You just need to replace MobileInstallation file to do this. There is no hassle!
> 
> 
> There is question of "jailbreaking not done properly". Either you jailbreak or you don't. You don't do anything, its the pwnagetool or quickpwn or the other stuff which ready the custom firmware. You only flash your phone. If flashed properly you phone works, if not then it doesn't. There is no intermediate stage!



Dude patching mobile installation patch for 2.21is easy but for 3.0 it is different  , similarly creating CFW is easy but using the right pawnage tool like redsnow or quickpawn is important . You can get hell lot of errors in itunes while restoring your devise with CFW . I remember i had jailbreaked my 2.2.1  using only xpawn through DOS !!


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 22, 2009)

rohan_mhtr said:


> Dude patching mobile installation patch for 2.21is easy but for 3.0 it is different  , similarly creating CFW is easy but using the right pawnage tool like redsnow or quickpawn is important . You can get hell lot of errors in itunes while restoring your devise with CFW . I remember i had jailbreaked my 2.2.1  using only xpawn through DOS !!


I dunno what you are talking about... AFAIK there is no mobileinstallation for 3.0. You need to pull out an app from Icy/Cydia which automatically does everything for you. Its even easier than 2.2.x 

Secondly, afaik there is no quickpwn for 3.0 stable (yet?) and redsnow is not for jailbreaking but for unlocking. I fail to get any of your points!


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## Tamoghno (Jul 22, 2009)

rohan_mhtr said:


> Dude do you know how much hastle has to be faced to run pirated apps on iphone firmware 3.0 . If jailbreaking is not done properly there is decrease in performance of the devise and this is the reason why most people are complaining about 3.0 . Anyway we are not dealing with microsoft here but Mac OS instead .
> -Peace



Chill dude , chill . 

Like i already said , i was NOT talking about jailbreaking , i was only talking about PIRATED os . Yes , its true i dont have first hand experience  with v3 , but i've seen quite a few vids in youtube.anyway , i am taking iphone out of comparison if it hurts you.

Anyway , what i was originally trying to say is that touchscreen phones are usually slower (than their non-touchscreen counterpart) . For example , 5800 is wayyy slower than e71 , blackberry storm is slower than bold etc.


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 22, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> I dunno what you are talking about... AFAIK there is no mobileinstallation for 3.0. You need to pull out an app from Icy/Cydia which automatically does everything for you. Its even easier than 2.2.x
> 
> Secondly, afaik there is no quickpwn for 3.0 stable (yet?) and redsnow is not for jailbreaking but for unlocking. I fail to get any of your points!


You mentioned MIpatch for 3.0 in the first place .The mobilinstallation patches are obsolete on 3.0 so you need to Install AppSync for OS 3.0. It has the same effect as miPatch .  If wifi isnt available  as seen in  many cases in india , you have to do hell lot of other things to install cracked apps .Dont mix up with 2.2.1 and 3.0 read few of my previous posts .
 I was trying to tell that many people are finding it a little difficult jailbreaking 3.0 since they are used to earlier firmware and hence the trouble .


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 22, 2009)

rohan_mhtr said:


> You mentioned MIpatch for 3.0 in the first place .The mobilinstallation patches are obsolete on 3.0 so you need to Install AppSync for OS 3.0. It has the same effect as miPatch .  If wifi isnt available  as seen in  many cases in india , you have to do hell lot of other things to install cracked apps .Dont mix up with 2.2.1 and 3.0 read few of my previous posts .
> I was trying to tell that many people are finding it a little difficult jailbreaking 3.0 since they are used to earlier firmware and hence the trouble .





rohan_mhtr said:


> You mentioned MIpatch for 3.0 in the first place .The mobilinstallation patches are obsolete on 3.0 so you need to Install AppSync for OS 3.0. It has the same effect as miPatch .  If wifi isnt available  as seen in  many cases in india , you have to do hell lot of other things to install cracked apps .Dont mix up with 2.2.1 and 3.0 read few of my previous posts . I was trying to tell that many people are finding it a little difficult jailbreaking 3.0 since they are used to earlier firmware and hence the trouble .


1) You still need to patch Mobileinstallation for that purpose in 3.0

2) This is done automatically by AppSync. So mobileinstallation patching technique is still the underlying mechanism which is taken care of by AppSync.

3) If "wifi isn't available" how is that an iPhone/3.0 firmware issue?

Look at your previous posts:



rohan_mhtr said:


> Dude do you know how much hastle has to be faced to run pirated apps on iphone firmware 3.0 .


Cracks me up dude... you wanna run pirated apps and are complaining coz you think its not easy!!! lol... that sentence sounds is as if you've paid thousands of bucks and even then something isn't working for you 



rohan_mhtr said:


> If jailbreaking is not done properly there is decrease in performance of the devise and this is the reason why most people are complaining about 3.0 .


... and I say "if jailbreaking is not done properly you end up with a paper weight!" The device won't even boot...



Tamoghno said:


> Anyway , what i was originally trying to say is that touchscreen phones are usually slower (than their non-touchscreen counterpart) . For example , 5800 is wayyy slower than e71 , blackberry storm is slower than bold etc.


I'm not sure if thats the case in Nokia (since I've never haf experienced high end nokia phones except 5800), but how can you say that a touch screen phone has a non-touch screen counterpart? Its not like you haf Nokia 5800 and Nokia 5800NT (non-touch model). 5800 and e71 are completely different models (correct me if I am wrong). And I find absolutely no lag in either iPhone/iTouch or Pre or Hero.

Anyways, all the SE touchscreen phones suck, at least for me!


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## Tamoghno (Jul 22, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> I'm not sure if thats the case in Nokia (since I've never haf experienced high end nokia phones except 5800), but how can you say that a touch screen phone has a non-touch screen counterpart? Its not like you haf Nokia 5800 and Nokia 5800NT (non-touch model). 5800 and e71 are completely different models (correct me if I am wrong). And I find absolutely no lag in either iPhone/iTouch or Pre or Hero.



They are not directly comparable but if you look closely you'll see that both phones uses same 369mhz procy , same 128mb ram and based on almost same platform (symbian 9.4 & 9.5) . But performence wise e71 is miles ahead of 5800 . Maybe its higher res screen or maybe unmatured firmware  , but the end result is touchscreen are USUALLY slower.

You dont find v3 firmware in iphone 2g little laggy ? If it wasn't laggy what do you 3gs improved upon ?

Btw , definition of 'laggy' may be different to you and me . Most people find 5800 quite acceptable while i think its still slow.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 23, 2009)

Tamoghno said:


> They are not directly comparable but if you look closely you'll see that both phones uses same 369mhz procy , same 128mb ram and based on almost same platform (symbian 9.4 & 9.5) . But performence wise e71 is miles ahead of 5800 . Maybe its higher res screen or maybe unmatured firmware  , but the end result is touchscreen are USUALLY slower.


Thats what I was wondering about... is the comparison fair b/w 2 different models.



Tamoghno said:


> You dont find v3 firmware in iphone 2g little laggy ? If it wasn't laggy what do you 3gs improved upon ?


Definitely not! 1.1.2, 2.x, 3.0 are all as snappy on all iPhoneOS devices as ever. Why do you think Apple, by default, disabled a2dp, video rec. in the previous gen. models but still officially support 3.0? That is definitely not the reason why 3GS was introduced. If you don't keep churning out faster products you lose market and are lost in the oblivion.



Tamoghno said:


> Btw , definition of 'laggy' may be different to you and me . *Most peopl*e find 5800 quite acceptable while i think its still slow.


That includes me 

Coming to the topic, I believe SE has to come up with a UIQ-less smartphone in the 15k range to boost sales.


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## utsav (Jul 23, 2009)

^^ yup, they do need some smartphone in that range and am very sure that nokia will be in trouble then


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## rohan_mhtr (Jul 23, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> 1)
> 
> 
> 3) If "wifi isn't available" how is that an iPhone/3.0 firmware issue?
> ...


If wifi isnt available you have to manually ssh and replace the file , this is where most people get wrong . And you are wrong about jailbreaking . I can create various CFWes for 2.2.1 where the device will boot but will face many other probs like unable to connect to net , shows wrong memmory , apps related issues etc . Only some tools found on net like quickpwn , redsnow etc are not the only means for jailbreaking . You can create your own CFW and put your own functions in the device just by using dos , just a little programming knowledge is required . 
Again you are getting me wrong , you have never understood my point .

Anyway back on topic regarding good OS and hardware on phone . I still dont remember a good SE smartphone . Dont get me wrong , they produce good Vfm phones but other then that there isnt much . Take w960 for instant , i had purchased it for my father back in 2007 but its uiq platform was way unstable . SE should start producing products like that of nokia n series ( n73) for eg if they want to increase their sale .


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## Tamoghno (Jul 23, 2009)

infra_red_dude said:


> Coming to the topic, I believe SE has to come up with a UIQ-less smartphone in the 15k range to boost sales.



Dont worry , uiq is long dead  .so we can expect to see some nice symbian based phones in future from se . But one thing i doubt is their price point , they dont seem to be interested in producing good midrange smartphone . They are too focused on very hign end right now like X2,satio , rachael none ,of will release @< 35k i guess.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 23, 2009)

rohan_mhtr said:


> If wifi isnt available you have to manually ssh and replace the file , this is where most people get wrong . And you are wrong about jailbreaking . I can create various CFWes for 2.2.1 where the device will boot but will face many other probs like unable to connect to net , shows wrong memmory , apps related issues etc . Only some tools found on net like quickpwn , redsnow etc are not the only means for jailbreaking . You can create your own CFW and put your own functions in the device just by using dos , just a little programming knowledge is required .
> Again you are getting me wrong , you have never understood my point .



My point was if you are not that familiar with jailbreaking then obviously you won't go create your own firmware. And you can't go wrong with pwnage tool coz that doesn't give you the option of manually adding or deleting some random important file.



rohan_mhtr said:


> Anyway back on topic regarding good OS and hardware on phone . I still dont remember a good SE smartphone . Dont get me wrong , they produce good Vfm phones but other then that there isnt much . Take w960 for instant , i had purchased it for my father back in 2007 but its uiq platform was way unstable . SE should start producing products like that of nokia n series ( n73) for eg if they want to increase their sale.


Thats my point. Just producing good hardware isn't enuf. You need complementing software and thats wehre SE is going wrong.


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