# 7 Reasons Why Microsoft is Doomed!



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 4, 2007)

Not this year, not next year… but soon - almost certainly by the next decade. 


*#1. Their business model is a dead-end.* - Back when Microsoft first started business in 1980, software as a commodity was still a fuzzy concept. Computers, themselves, were flying off the shelves, and of course you bought game cartridges for game consoles, but what little computer software was being sold in the early 1980’s was worth a few dollars at the most. And then came “Micro-soft” - a BASIC interpreter on a floppy disk in a zip-lock plastic baggy! But somehow, it caught on. 

Now, in 2007, the concept of software as a commodity is rapidly wearing off again. Today, it’s all about the service and maintenance - something that Microsoft isn’t prepared to deal with. 


*#2. They flunk at Web 2.0.* - Another shift in the technology market is the much-hyped web app. When you can get more and more of your programs to download from a server and run in a web browser, your whole operating system - as far as what needs to be installed on your computer goes - can be a life-support system for a web browser. You can even get a full operating system to run in your browser! Meanwhile, the biggest stake they have ever had in the Internet user-space is Internet Explorer. 


*#3. They’re running out of friends.* - First off, they’ve been brought up on multiple anti-trust charges in both the United States and Europe, plus been the subject of 130 lawsuits besides. Now consider that IBM, their former friend, now values Linux above Microsoft. And then there’s Sun, Apple, Google, and Oracle, who are flat-out competitors to Microsoft while favoring at least open source, if not Linux proper. Even Adobe is starting to look like a competitor with Microsoft, with nearly a one-to-one mapping of what Adobe and Microsoft each offer.


*#4. They only have a couple of cash cows to work with.* - Yes, it’s easy to look good when you consider their dominance on the desktop and office programs - but that’s their two products that they stay afloat on is Windows and Office. What about the other ventures of Microsoft? Is MSN taking over share from Google and Yahoo? Did the Zune beat the iPod? How many of you bought Microsoft Surface? Web servers? Nope, Apache rules that roost. OK, so what about the XBox? _Yes_! The XBox is selling well… at a loss. 

At this point, it is becoming apparent that Microsoft had better cling to that operating system and office suite, because every time they step into another market, they get their head handed to them. 


*#5. People are hating on Vista.* - We didn’t even see this many people mad about Windows ME.


*#6. Their stock isn’t rising any more.* - This is not to say “this week”, but rather over the last seven years. This chart shows a clear picture. You see the stock value climbing steadily until right at the year 2000 - then it fell gradually and has puttered along at a level rate ever since. Microsoft was once the most profitable stock you could trade, but with a seven year slump, that magic spell seems to be irrevocably broken. 


*#7. PC makers are starting to turn their backs on Microsoft.* - Sure, small-time markets have offered alternatives to Microsoft, but when a giant PC seller like Dell starts selling Ubuntu machines, that’s another big sign. HP has followed suit.


Five months ago, noted tech industry guru Paul Graham declared Microsoft dead. People laughed and even I was skeptical, but now that we see the further developments that have happened since that time, it may turn out that Paul Graham has the last laugh, yet.

Source: CNET

*PS*: Such news rips apart the hearts of ProMS fans. I'm quite sure 'gx' and 'imav' will have lot of comments on this one!  

Also Good for Read is *Enterprises saving millions of dollars with open source*


----------



## entrana (Sep 4, 2007)

ya also explains why bill gates isnt the richest anymore


----------



## praka123 (Sep 4, 2007)

Hope Linux gains the market.even mac too i dont mind-but  not to be another monopoly OS maker.
M$ is very well known for their bad(anti-competitive) business practices.just read in desktoplinux.com that M$ closed their "get the facts" campaign and  a new one coming(FUD).
the bigger blow M$ got was that SCO lost UNIX licenses to Novell.and M$ was the puller behing SCO unix co for the FUD -linux got codes from unix etc.
that's why their new bullet Linux infringes 235 patents FUD coming.
M$ is bullsh!t.I am loving the pic where some one through a cake on Bill Gates face.he deserved it.


----------



## Gigacore (Sep 4, 2007)

nice thread


----------



## entrana (Sep 4, 2007)

but dude windows xp still rocks even if vista sucks


----------



## CadCrazy (Sep 4, 2007)

I am eagerly waiting for it. I want to be one of the reason for it


----------



## alsiladka (Sep 4, 2007)

I just read a Digg article rubbishing this claim.

I was really very sleepy then and paid attention to just on line then.

*A business model, giving a $ 14 billion turnover at year end, will certainly not meet a dead end!!*

About the article on why IE6 must die, common, they have released IE7 now, why still take IE6's case every time.


----------



## fun2sh (Sep 4, 2007)

wow. some1 will never leave microsoft from puch things. if microsoft is dead then it can only be a DOOMSDAY


----------



## iMav (Sep 4, 2007)

business model is rock solid on the contrary acc to bill gates (to pranoy roy ndtv if u remmber while with murthi) in an interview he said that its google's no add model tht will give them problems in the long run ... may be may be not

and as far as web 2.0 is concerned ... look at the entire live package ... its all web 2.0 ... no 1 in their minds can say MS flunked web 2.0 or watever 

vista and the link of urs well we all know the kind of stupid blogs ppl have against vista ... there are some genuine claims but most of it pure bull sh!t

xbox ... is killer the only thing better selling than it is the wii as compared to the over-hyped peice of sh!t called the ps3 even sony has gone back to re-launching the ps2

zune and ipod well the same was said abt the xbox ... ms is blah blah gaming console and ms blah blah ... we all know the current situation ... as far as pmp is concerned may be it wont beat the ipod but will certainly eat a lot of its share

the business model and web 2.0 points were something that help~is~here u urself cud hav made sense and not put here ...


----------



## utsav (Sep 4, 2007)

we benefit a lot from windows as most of the softwares and hardware made r capable to run with windows.we get a variety of choice for evry type of software and hardware but imagine if all types of oses put windows behind then we users will hav a limited choice in evry pc product.
For this a joint agreement should be made that all the hardware and software should be platform independent


----------



## mediator (Sep 4, 2007)

Well MS-Windows certainly rulez the Gaming department. Until then I doubt the occurence of the doomsday. Its about time that gaming recieves a major boost on GNU/Linux and other OSs.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 4, 2007)

Must be written by a Lingeek or MS hater....., I don't wanna write an explanation kicking the auther's point of view cos this will change in flame war


----------



## fun2sh (Sep 4, 2007)

well said gx but i feel that there articles nothin but a PIECE OF CRAPY BULLSHIT


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 4, 2007)

Sure enough guys M$ is heading for a painful ending and vista is the beginning of their collapse.Their non-cooperative and monopolist behavior will screw them within 5 years or so.Just wait and watch.

Google and yahoo on internet and Linux on OS front will give it a painful death.
Future is open source and sharing not exorbent prices for some sh!t OS.Look at linux just install it and it is ready to use with almost all the necessary softwares.

In windows you need an antivirus(fully updated i.e. 100's of viruses everyday should be added to it's database),a spyware,a firewall,an adware.In linux you need none of them(you can install antivirus if you are paranoid about security).

Ever wondered why windows keep on slowing down with passage of time cos it packs in itself sh!tloads of junk.You have to defragment your HD often why can't windows do it first timer itself.

And now windows VISTA supports DRM.WTF?


----------



## iMav (Sep 4, 2007)

5 years ..... this has been said for like the pasr 15 years ... MS wil die ms will die .. they are making game console they know nothing they will die they will die o! xp xp is hit ms shud shut shop xp sux xp sux 5 yrs down the line we all know the story ... and for ur info ms is not only a software company anymore  they have got a wide variety and which reminds i forgot to mention ... where did this fool see the surface on sale ...


----------



## shantanu (Sep 4, 2007)

Bill Gates not the richest man : yeah its true.. but do anyone knows whats the difference.. this is calculated at te business year ending.. the year has not ended yet, the calculations are premilinary.. that means when the year ends , the official calculations will take place and then it will be decided who is the richest, Mr. Helu or sir gates... 

and yes for now Mr. Helu is, but thats a matter of time.. which will change soon enough...

For Microsoft : is there any IT company of the same level ?

There is no competition to Microsoft right now and till now !
 so M$ isnt going anywhere, whatever the calculations say.


----------



## iMav (Sep 4, 2007)

5 years shantanu ... the devil_himself will crush MS ...  MS painful ending in 5 years  .... 50 i wud hav accepted ... 5


----------



## shantanu (Sep 4, 2007)

i think for atleast 50 years , M$ isnt going anywhere.. look at the position they are in... and i dont think they have any wrong deeds , for which the devil will curse them to an end.. !

on what basis did this thread was posted in am amazed !

what guys think is that M$ is only based on the range of its OS.. its not true...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 4, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Sure enough guys M$ is heading for a painful ending and vista is the beginning of their collapse.Their non-cooperative and monopolist behavior will screw them within 5 years or so.Just wait and watch.


We heard this in 1998, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2007 & ...........come back here when Linux is even remotely a threat for Windows on Desktop front. U say Linux is free, well...it is unless your time has no value which u spend on actually getting Linux to work.



> Google and yahoo on internet and Linux on OS front will give it a painful death.


Web Apps have always been there, but u forgot...Google cannot give a whole Internet based word processor better then MS word Or OpenOffice.org Writer. An offline standalone application is always faster. Google is giving competition in Web 2.0 services such as what..

Orkut? We have Windows Live spaces too
Google Docs is a joke compared to even Abiword or OpenOffice.
Google Talk, ever heard about Windows Live Messenger or MSN messenger.
Picasa, ever tried Windows Photo gallery?



> Future is open source and sharing not exorbent prices for some sh!t OS.Look at linux just install it and it is ready to use with almost all the necessary softwares.


Lolz....didn't u just saw the stats of Linux in the technology news section.



> In windows you need an antivirus


Nope, u just need common sense. Do U let any one unknown enter your house, just cos he is saying he is from Star news & wearing white cloths? Do U blame the almari lock company if the guy u allow to enter your home breaks it?

Same way, how do u think a virus will enter? Well....it can if U browse sites from an unknown source or unknown sender's mail. Its your fault so why r u blaming MS for this when they clearly say to follow the phishing filter.



> a spyware,a firewall,an adware.


Already there in Windows Vista by default.



> In linux you need none of them


But time is not imporant in Linux & it is ok to hunt for drivers, & files & then blame MS if your graphics card from ATI doesn't work.


> Ever wondered why windows keep on slowing down with passage of time cos it packs in itself sh!tloads of junk.You have to defragment your HD often why can't windows do it first timer itself.


Ever tried removing Windows Component? The Disk Defragmentar in Vista automatically defragment.



> And now windows VISTA supports DRM.WTF?


You hate DRM, don't buy DRM content. Vista won't affect anything else u use.


----------



## aryayush (Sep 4, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> I am loving the pic where some one through a cake on Bill Gates face.he deserved it.


No, he didn't.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 4, 2007)

everyone forgot the real money generator for ms: MS office!! its not windows which has the greatest share of revenue but its due MS OFFICE!!! and this has been admitted by a senior MS employee who gave a guest lecture few months ago in my college.

and unless gaming in GNU/unix based OS takes off MS is sure to stay!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 4, 2007)

MS office, XBOX Live, Exchange Server, Windows, XBOX (Machine), WSUS, just a few of many MS cash cows.

Thread should be locked, it will only attract unnecessary flame war.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ...it is unless your time has no value which u spend on actually getting Linux to work.


bullsh!t. plz stop posting this crap again and again. keep ur eyes wide open and try to see around you. its not the 90s anymore, we are in 2007!




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Web Apps have always been there, but u forgot...Google cannot give a whole Internet based word processor better then MS word Or OpenOffice.org Writer.


MS Office is the best app out there and there is absolutely no comptt.!! and imho there can be none in the coming few years. this is a highly matured product, hard to survive widout!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Orkut? We have Windows Live spaces too
> Google Docs is a joke compared to even Abiword or OpenOffice.
> Google Talk, ever heard about Windows Live Messenger or MSN messenger.
> Picasa, ever tried Windows Photo gallery?


all the MS alternatives you gave are not even worthy of throwing into the trash! u are comparing orkut and windows live spaces? picasa and windows photo gallery.... man.. this should be the joke of the thread!!!




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, u just need common sence.


and this is what most of the ppl lack. not everyone is like you and me to survive widout an AV!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Already there in Windows Vista by default.


what... defender? you say it works?? omfg...     someone plz take the laughing gas outta the room!!!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> But time is not imporant in Linux & it is ok to hunt for drivers, & files & then blame MS if your graphics card from ATI doesn't work.


this is what i've been telling ppl too, time and again. if ur hardware doesn't work in an OS its not the fault of the OS.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ever tried removing Windows Component? The defragmenter in Vista automatically defragment.


you speak crap man!!! if you keep instlling and removing loads of software then jus go thru the system32 folder..... i won't say anything else here!




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You hate DRM, don't buy DRM content. Vista won't affect anything else u use.


fully agree. i think DRM is overhyped here in india!! don't buy DRM if you don't support it. its as simple as that. nobody if forcing you to buy it.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 4, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> bullsh!t. plz stop posting this crap again and again. keep ur eyes wide open and try to see around you. its not the 90s anymore, we are in 2007!



U cannot deny the fact that Windows is easier then Linux, most compatible with hardware out there, has lods of many usefull softwares.



> u are comparing orkut and windows live spaces?



Sorry, Orkut is a better timepass . I should have said Blogger & WLS



> picasa and windows photo gallery..



Aren't both Photo Management applications?



> and this is what most of the ppl lack. not everyone is like you and me to survive widout an AV!
> 
> what... defender? you say it works??



No comments, plz read the reports about Defender.



> you speak crap man!!! if you keep instlling and removing loads of software then jus go thru the system32 folder..... i won't say anything else here!



Donno how my System32 folder is only 200 MB more then initial state 10 months ago here in Vista 

The thread itself is baseless & flaming, it should be locked.


----------



## iMav (Sep 4, 2007)

infra its not only abt the driver availability also the ease of installation ... 

and also if u say ppl dont have the common sense to run windows w/o an av then we can well imagine the excitement they shall be faced with trying to mount an ntfs partition


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> U cannot deny the fact that Windows is easier then Linux, most compatible with hardware out there, has lods of many usefull softwares.


i don't say windows is easier than linux. its just tht ppl haf been exposed to windows from a long time. the bullet of yester years had the gear lever on the right side and many ppl said its tuff to drive but ask those who'd owned and drove it since ages. i agree wid the second and third about the hardware compat. and no. of software. but then its coz of the the popularity of windows which none denies 




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Aren't both Photo Management applications?


picasa is much more than that and a million times better than windows photo gallery.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> No comments, plz read the reports about Defender.


yeah, no comments here either. plz use defender first and then say it again!!!




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Donno how my System32 folder is only 200 MB more then initial state 10 months ago here in Vista


you haf 200 mb of redundant crap in there then! of corz all mite not be crap. but nobody can deny that total uninstallation is not possible everytime and it does slow down windows over the time. now the time may vary in everycase. it mebbe months or years....



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> infra its not only abt the driver availability also the ease of installation ...


you say that coz you want a dual boot system. ever tried giving linux the whole harddisk and seen how easy it is to install? do try it.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and also if u say ppl dont have the common sense to run windows w/o an av then we can well imagine the excitement they shall be faced with trying to mount an ntfs partition


plz try a newer distro and then speak. why wud u want an ntfs partition anyways on a linux system? then i can say that windows doesn't even read ext2,3 FS!!! let alone mounting...

i'm not a linux guy.. as i've said time and again i use both extensively and some of the points here are totally absurd.

i know i'm going off topic.. so guys can be either get on topic or haf the thread closed?


----------



## abhijangda (Sep 4, 2007)

good one i like it.


----------



## vish786 (Sep 4, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> ... i'm not a linux guy.. as i've said time and again i use both extensively and some of the points......



that applies to me also
i use both to extremes,
yet to try a hand on Mac. 
when will i get my Mac OS.


----------



## shantanu (Sep 4, 2007)

defender : i use it from a long time.. i have only Vista now, had Xp about 2 months back with only defender and not a AV. in vista too only defender.. its a good software.. i dont find a point where it lacks.. i dont know how some of you guys use your systems.. ?


i guess everyone is proving their points, whether it is baseless also.... thread getting deviated..

so Thread closed/


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 4, 2007)

vish786 said:
			
		

> when will i get my Mac OS.



Pay a visit to nearest Apple store


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

Thread reopened.. on members request..


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmmm... 12hrs (when orginally this was supposed to be posted) into thread posting and already so many replies? I didn't expect it!

Anyways, first things first. @gx, stop asking anyone to lock this thread. You have no right to ask anyone to do that. I don't understand why on every thread that seems to be a threat to MS, you keep asking to lock it. If you don't want to reply on this thread, don't! But other's who want to express their opinions, let them! If you think statements against MS is flaming, then I would ask you not to reply in this thread anymore. 

As far as the thread itself is concerned, whether it was written by some stupid blogger is totally irrelevant because of the fact that what ever presented is clearly the thruth and logical reasoning can tell you that.

Software business is no longer a money machine because of the simple fact that first of all people expect things to be cheap and available freely to them because they expect things like computers to help easily without being a money monker. Secondly, there are lot of other softwares that are alternatively available either free or at a fraction of the price. Now, even if there is no alternative, people have managed to crack every software that one can imagine of! There is hardly any software in the world that has not been cracked. Sofware piracy can never be stopped because no matter how much of intelectual property rights and any other legality involved, it always points to the basic fact of human life that is computing for free and not at a killing price! Money being charged for very specifically used applications can be justified, but sofware for everyday use(OS) being charged? I don't think that is justified when there are a hell lot of other alternative softwares that can be available for free!

And it makes sense to anyone in the world that get it as cheap as possible is the best thing! Hardware prices were at a very forbidden price long back but today it has come down the reach of common man but the case with sofware has been the other way around. The prices have always been going away from the reach of common man and let me tell you that, that is a very bad monopolistic greedy idea in this age where computing is available at a much cheaper rate!

The point is simple, if you don't bring down the price, we are going to look for alternatives! If anyone thinks that the hundreds of big corporates who are replacing their entire infrastructure with cheaper linux based models are nut crackers and are dumb idiots who are stupid, then I don't know what to say about the person who thinks like that? And also if you think companies like IBM, Dell and HP who happened to be the largest desktop PC manufacturers in the world are pre-installing linux on their systems because they are stupid and have seen the potential, then again, I don't know what to say to people who think so! And also the no. of Linux Apache servers compared to Windows servers will tell you the story about how well MS is in the server market! Hell, now that IBM is bringing out cell based servers, it's even going to break the Intel-MS monoply or partnership.

@Imav, you didn't get the point about the XBox, did you? how will you when you eyes are blindfolded by microsoft? The point is not about the sales volume for the XBox, but the fact that the XBox has been selling at a loss especially at times when MS announced a $1billion fund into replacement and warranty due to the ROD issues on the XBox. How will you understand that? naa... forget it!

For those of you who keep saying linux is so hard to install and so hard to work with, either you haven't installed the latest versions on your systems, or you dont' know anything about computing that you just stick to something that is commonly used by people who don't know how to use computers or you are simply a ProMS!

Open your eyes people, this is the era where companies have realized that it's the right of every person to have 'affordable computing' and not squeeze the money out of people who just want to use a computer because they have to!

*Related Links:*
Electronics Corporation of Tamil Nadu Chooses SUSE Linux Enterprise for 30,000 Desktops and 1,880 Servers


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

@hih : the first thing is that every member can ask for what he/she wants.. whether he /she feels that the thread should be locked or not. ! then you srarted the thread in the worng section if you wanted others to express their views ... views can be expressed, but only if they are views.. not flames..

SO its a notice for this thread : ANYONE i REPEAT , ANYONE.. who will post a bit of flame will face misery for a week..after my post, so be aware that not to flame...


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> @hih : the first thing is that every member can ask for what he/she wants.. whether he /she feels that the thread should be locked or not. ! then you srarted the thread in the worng section if you wanted others to express their views ... views can be expressed, but only if they are views.. not flames..
> 
> SO its a notice for this thread : ANYONE i REPEAT , ANYONE.. who will post a bit of flame will face misery for a week..after my post, so be aware that not to flame...


 
I get your point, but the only reason I mentioned that was because the last time I asked the mods to lock a thread, the entire users on the thread came to beat me up... sadly including the mods saying that it was everyone's right to keep the thread open.. that is why I had to bring that up.. sorry if it offended anyone.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

1. more often than not pro MS guys get banned for refuting dumb claims
2. the blogger has logical reasoning  

and as far as xbox is concerned it is a loss making right now ... the whole indian aviation ind is loss making does that mean the services are crap or every1 shud stop pack up & leave .... xbox is second to only wii and that too pricing of the wii and the 360 has blown away any potential ps3 competition .... wen the first xbox was launched we all know every1 lamblasted ms for a crappy console ms doesnt know how to make a console blah blah and wat happened then ms came with a new 1 and the best console in the market the best console makers in the market were left eating dust ... thats the point i m makin abt the xbox ....

so ur point is only that if ms doesnt bring prices down they are doomed



> For those of you who keep saying linux is so hard to install and so hard to work with, either you haven't installed the latest versions on your systems, or you dont' know anything about computing that you just stick to something that is commonly used by people who don't know how to use computers or you are simply a ProMS!


 shantanu my reply to this wud be considered flaming but i doubt whether any1 will raise objection to the provocative nature of the quote


----------



## vish786 (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> infra its not only abt the driver availability also the ease of installation ...


kya ease of installation.... ease of installtion... ki leye rota reha hai. can " we " use windows without even touchin mouse/keyboard.

Kuch naya bolo yaar ek hi baat sun sun ke pak/bore gaya hu.





			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and also if u say ppl dont have the common sense to run windows w/o an av then we can well imagine the excitement they shall be faced with trying to mount an ntfs partition


u wont believe i have not mounted any windows partitions manually, everthing is done automatically in buntu/mandriva/suse/and most of them which i have tested.

* I have nothing else to say abt it.*



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> @hih : the first thing is that every member can ask for what he/she wants.. whether he /she feels that the thread should be locked or not. ! then you srarted the thread in the worng section if you wanted others to express their views ... views can be expressed, but only if they are views.. not flames..
> 
> SO its a notice for this thread : ANYONE i REPEAT , ANYONE.. who will post a bit of flame will face misery for a week..after my post, so be aware that not to flame...


* Aap ki baat " Sirako per "*


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

coming back to the topic ... help~is~here how abt replying to this post:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=594403&postcount=9

vish i dont know but the ubuntu i have needs me to type tedious lines of codes to load a ntfs drive same is the case with slax and well  just dont have the time to sit and type lines of codes to install display drivers ... u have it good for u ... enjoy it


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> 1. more often than not pro MS guys get banned for refuting dumb claims
> 2. the blogger has logical reasoning
> 
> and as far as xbox is concerned it is a loss making right now ... the whole indian aviation ind is loss making does that mean the services are crap or every1 shud stop pack up & leave .... xbox is second to only wii and that too pricing of the wii and the 360 has blown away any potential ps3 competition .... wen the first xbox was launched we all know every1 lamblasted ms for a crappy console ms doesnt know how to make a console blah blah and wat happened then ms came with a new 1 and the best console in the market the best console makers in the market were left eating dust ... thats the point i m makin abt the xbox ....
> ...


 
Dude, I meant prices for softwares, not for their already at a loss console. As far as the XBox360 is concerned, you too agree that it has been selling at a loss. Which means microsoft is at a loss with the product regardless of if it's the best one or not! Now, if microsoft wants to make a profit, they have to increase the price of the console which is obviously going to help more no. of PS3s and Wiis go out from store shelves. The only reason that the XBox360 is selling more is becasue of it's price compared to the PS3, now if MS wants to make profit, raising the price like mentioned before is also not going to help them. So, the point is, XBox360 is a loss for MS regardless of even if it's the best console in the world because of the simple fact that it's already at a loss and even if they increase the price, it will still be a loss!



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and as far as web 2.0 is concerned ... look at the entire live package ... its all web 2.0 ... no 1 in their minds can say MS flunked web 2.0 or watever
> the business model and web 2.0 points were something that help~is~here u urself cud hav made sense and not put here ...


 
Yeah, the entire live package has been the most horrible piece of online application I have ever seen in my life, after MS shifted to live services, because of the big pain in the wrong place due to loading times and system resources issue, I started collecting my mails via OE and not use hotmail anymore, and stopped using MSN messenger and shifted to other AIO messenger services.

Dude, no one is saying that MS doesn't have Web2.0 services. They do, but they failed horribly in getting any users interested in the horribly slow and system resources hogging services! On the contrary, google has been just building up it's services on Web2.0 which is much faster and much more user friendly(User friendly doesn't mean eye-candy)


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

ms is not increasing prices of the xbox on the contrary prices have been dropping ... and dude i hardly know of any company/brand that has been making profit since launch/establishment ... as i said the whole indian aviation ind is loss making .... today business is loss making for the initial periosd and the break even point is atleast 5-6 years for almost all major businesses so please dont consider that because xbox is loss making now ms will shut shop ... do u think jet airways, kingfisher, indian are going to close they have been loss making for years now ...

and please reply to the post i have requested u to

with regards to liove services: its ur choice that u dont like messenger or hotmail ... im rather thrilled at my 5gb hotmail, skydrive, live spaces, live gallery and its a given that live is gonna have a lot more ... its even been posted in the tech news section .... easy to use and eye candy i have been saying that since i jopined this forum ... i dont want to bring it here but os x its all eye candy  and live uyes its not suitable for indian internet conx speeds as of now but that doesnt mean the services are crap ... u feel the services are crap is no reason to believe that ms will shut shop


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

Just let the users here,even a fraction atleast just let them know that microsoft and windows are not praised and worshipped as the three geniuses are trying to force on you.
One word-let the monopoly of microsoft shattered,the world will be much better with a lot of options and more stable Platforms.
By the time ppl knew that what Vista with DRM means-it will be a big shock for average user.not blaming microsoft alone all those music rights groups in the name of fair use are really limiting the ppl from using Vista with DRM(proteced_video_path  ).
the same case is with Nokia too.once they became a monopoly,things can be a little difficult to have the mobile platform remain as of now.nokia too can act as microsoft way of monopoly.thx to SE i hope atleast mobile platform be free of these big demons.
Monopolies at any field means users(you!) are forced to use whatever they pressurize on you directly or indirectly(microsoft Vista os as an eg)
Many ppl see Bill gates as a genius-but i see him as a good marketer.
Bill gates pushed the software licence crap model.otherwise OSS movement shud have grown much more than what @1980's RMS envisaged.
anti-trust-this word is linked with the genius's company from the day it gained  popularity.


> A class action settlement that will see Microsoft pay up to $180 million to Iowa consumers and $75 million to their lawyers was approved Friday morning by Polk County District Court Judge Scott Rosenberg.
> 
> The approval ends a seven-year legal battle in which Des Moines lawyer Roxanne Conlin and others had accused Microsoft of anti-trust activities, which they claimed boosted the price of the company’s computer software.
> 
> The settlement was reached in February following three months of a trial that was expected to last well into the summer.


*desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070831/BUSINESS/70831027/-1/LIFE04
Analysis: DRM may be why Microsoft flip-flopped on Vista virtualization
Did the company's entertainment industry partners get cranky?


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

prakash u still havent replied to my question about monopoly ... if ms feels that drm is making them loose major ground they will do something abt it but as u have finally accepted to an extent that its not MS but other forces forcing ms to implement drm ... and again yaar why is drm such an issue ... its not bothering india right now and having said i know u will show me yash raj music launching drm content but again i  may remind u it wasnt for sales in india


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

Monopoly of M$?-it is like reliance ambanis or tata's are asked to take care of India totally and hell to go with democracy-this way m$ is a monopoly in OS market.ppl & countries shud ban Microsoft products or atleast discourage the use of windows OS alternately use Linux or any available options even MAC(dont care).let a governing body(democratic way) who cannot be influenced by M$ or big corporations to be here that be maintaining a balance of OS share.(atleast my state is trying to  do that.thx to RMS visited CM of Kerala).
DRM is Digital Restrictions Management-users are forced to limit their usage of their purchased songs or videos by the monopoly m$ and the RIAA& co .
on this trail,these corps dont care for the right of fair use of a person.
also heard that Vista's big system requirements are due to for the controlling of DRM effectively and SP1 too will be mostly a DRM update.


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

@praka : what you consider you post ?



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> Just let the users here,even a fraction atleast just let them know that microsoft and windows are not praised and worshipped as the three geniuses are trying to force on you.
> One word-let the monopoly of microsoft shattered,the world will be much better with a lot of options and more stable Platforms.
> By the time ppl knew that what Vista with DRM means-it will be a big shock for average user.not blaming microsoft alone all those music rights groups in the name of fair use are really limiting the ppl from using Vista with DRM(proteced_video_path  ).
> the same case is with Nokia too.once they became a monopoly,things can be a little difficult to have the mobile platform remain as of now.nokia too can act as microsoft way of monopoly.thx to SE i hope atleast mobile platform be free of these big demons.
> ...


 
^^^


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

^no offense.but this is what i clearly want to let people knows.everyone shud keep their affenity to a platform to be minimal.that way we can get the anger and fanboyism be gone.
I hope tolerance must be prevailed.afterall for some some companies or countries are gr8.for some we research what is wrong with them?that's what i did.there is nothing to flame for.just opins here.not bashing.just showing what is my personal opin after going through the www and using alternate OS Linux.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

prakash im still awaitng an answer to my question on who is a monopoly


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

its good to be open -minded.. expressing your views.. but here at forums the words we write are the face we use ... so i think the better words you use , the better you will be expressed.. 

yeah sure no offense... it wont be to me ever...


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> prakash im still awaitng an answer to my question on who is a monopoly


 Monopoly here means Microsoft.Microsoft is a monopoly.Koi shak?
what i want to convey is People *can* think that there are other options here too which the savvy or normal computer users can consider.FOSS movement is such a movement.


> Monopoly Mo*nop"o*ly, n.; pl. Monopolies. [L. monopolium,
> Gr. ?, ?; mo`nos alone + ? to sell.]
> 1. The exclusive power, or privilege of selling a commodity;
> the exclusive power, right, or privilege of dealing in
> ...


 ^in case there is alternate meaning for monopoly in _Indian English_.MSFT is such a monopoly-clear?
I am considering out of this thread coz what i want to convey is already told.enjoy!


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

i cant seem to find my post but i remmber iv posted it quite a few times ... with regards to u calling ms a monopoly:

i know of a company that makes hardware and software but the problem is that they ensure that any hardware upgrade made is from their company only, they make pmps and they dont allow u to freely use it they dont allow u to transfer music from the player to the comp only vice versa (unles ua 3rd par app is used) not only that they use open source as their back bone and dont even thank it

what ever hardware they make they ensure it looks and feels the same unless u get down to hack it now as compared to this i would say ms is till better off
]
and thanx for the lecture in english


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> prakash im still awaitng an answer to my question on who is a monopoly


 
I know why you have been constantly pestering him with that question. You want to prove to him that MAC is more of a monopoly than Microsoft. What you want to say, which you earlier did in another thread is that MAC is forcing people to use hardware and sofware they don't want or cannot upgrade unlike MS. Firstly, no one is specifically pointing at MAC. We are talking about open source and free and cheaper alternatives. Please don't start a Windows v/s MAC thread here.

He has already answered your question several times about monopoly, if you aren't still sure what monopoly means.

Monopoly:
1> exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices
2.> the market condition that exists when there is only one seller. 

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain how or what kind of monopoly microsoft is trying to create. But if you can relate the above 2 meanings to MS, that means, it's a monopoly unlike IBM, Novell, Linux OS


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

i requested u to answer a post of mine but didnt rather u chose to answer another post of mine directed to another member and then u say u wont waste time ...

and u say control of prices y is open source worried abt prices controlled by ms ... oss is free they shud say we giv a damn abt ms's pricing policy .... and again how abt replying to the post no. 9 of this thread ...


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

With every windows upgrade, you end up changing hardware to be compatible, existing hardware is not compatible and what not? MS forces the users to throw their existing hardware withing even sometimes hardly 3 months once they bought it. Take the example of directX. Microsoft has made a lot of money of this one sigle product, making revisions when ever they feel like not keeping the customer in mind that he will need to go get new hardware for it.

How many times have you had problem pluggin in your existing hardware to a new version of MAC OS which can be updated without even upgrading you computer. Or, how many times do you need to change hardware when you move from one version of linux to the other.

Here is where MS hidden monoploly is. It blindfolds the user into believing that the new technology is a lot better than the existing one and fool them into buying new hardware on which they too make a profit out of. We have seen enough cases of this already, and example being Vista. One question, why would you ever want to upgrade from WinXP to Vista? Why? Only one answer! DX10!! and who created that? MS. MS itself is trying to create a market scenario for selling it's own product by cheating the end user. That is what monopoly is if you still don't understand.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> i requested u to answer a post of mine but didnt rather u chose to answer another post of mine directed to another member and then u say u wont waste time ...
> 
> and u say control of prices y is open source worried abt prices controlled by ms ... oss is free they shud say we giv a damn abt ms's pricing policy .... and again how abt replying to the post no. 9 of this thread ...


 
Dude, I've already answered your question. This is why they call MS users blind

Go back and check my previous posts, you can find your answer to the Web2.0 question. Post#38 I guess.. lol... what to do with these guys... lol... And please, if you have something good to say, please do rather than these one liners


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

well i dont know about which computer u use but i have installed vista on the same machine i installed xp on when i bought it ... my rig is 4 years old only upgrade made is hdd and i installed vista on it without any issue .... and also tell me ... at no point of time can either software go forward or hardware go forward they both have to go together .... when 95 came no said o! **** ms has come with a new os now every1 will have to buy new computers ... the thing is if theres advancement in sofware there has to be harware to compliment it ... ms hasnt forced me to throw my existing hardware ... that statement of urs is baseless

ya i have replied to ur web 2.0 already .... u cited 7 points and i answered al,most all of em but u replied only to 1 .... now blindness and ignorance ... whats more prevalent here


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 5, 2007)

Egxactly.

Monopolist and communist can never survive more than a couple of decade.They live aristocratic but die like street dogs.

I say it again Open source and sharing is the future.That is why ubuntu releaseas their amazing distro almost 2 times a year and microsoft takes 4-5 year to develop crap like vista.

@shantanu:thanks for starting the thread again.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

@shantanu: me, help~is~here and prakash have had a civilised conversation after the thread re-opening ... but the abv post is sheer flame and provocative ... please do something abt it so that the thread isnt locked again and we can continue our discussion


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ya i have replied to ur web 2.0 already .... u cited 7 points and i answered al,most all of em but u replied only to 1 .... now blindness and ignorance ... whats more prevalent here


 
Dude, are you trying to get into an argument to get this thread closed? If so, I'm not falling for your jokes! I would say blindness for you still prevails than my ignorance, because I answered all the other question in different/several posts while your post#9 was relevant to Web2.0, so I answered it. 

Am telling you agian iMav, if you have something good to say please do, rather than keeping on pointing to silly pointless one liner things and saying that no one answered your question. More or less amounts to thread crapping and provoking flaming. So, please.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> @shantanu: me, help~is~here and prakash have had a civilised conversation after the thread re-opening ... but the abv post is sheer flame and provocative ... please do something abt it so that the thread isnt locked again and we can continue our discussion


 
*Provoking flaming! Post reported *



			
				The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Egxactly.
> 
> Monopolist and communist can never survive more than a couple of decade.They live aristocratic but die like street dogs.
> 
> ...


 
^^ I don't get where flaming or provocation is in this??


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

i want to read what u have said .... so now what were the other reasons u said  .... i think zune point is also cleared next yeah i havent seen the surface on sale so dont know from where the author has claimed it to be a doom point for ms ... what else is there ... friends .... some go new come .... indian poilitics is a perfect example of how frenz are made and left .... anything else to say why ms will doom


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i want to read what u have said .... so now what were the other reasons u said  .... i think zune point is also cleared next yeah i havent seen the surface on sale so dont know from where the author has claimed it to be a doom point for ms ... what else is there ... friends .... some go new come .... indian poilitics is a perfect example of how frenz are made and left .... anything else to say why ms will doom


 
First of all, stop taking it personally that "MS Doom" is something very offensive. Grow up, this is a world of competition and people will say bad things about bad companies that have been following bad customer manners..

Surface computers are already in sale in the US if you are not aware and don't be dreaming that they will come to India or that you can buy one. They might come to India but won't be affordable or useful for a normal consumer. It's a revolution in interface, that all, nothing new in computing! And people that are going to be using it will only be hotels/casinos/high end customer interactive businesses.

The zune is already a failure, I've hardly ever heard of people talking or marketing about it although I know such a product exist and that it has been in the market for a long time. Sony's new video walkman is again just going to overshadow it and zune is going to eat the dust sooner or later.

Please don't compare politics with the IT/Computer industry, that's like comparing the BPL Indian to a high tech geek! Learn to make your similarities where it matters.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

u started this  topic about Microsoft is Doomed! and i want to know how ....


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> First of all, stop taking it personally that "MS Doom" is something very offensive. Grow up, this is a world of competition and people will say bad things about bad companies that have been following bad customer manners..
> 
> Surface computers are already in sale in the US if you are not aware and don't be dreaming that they will come to India or that you can buy one. They might come to India but won't be affordable or useful for a normal consumer. It's a revolution in interface, that all, nothing new in computing! And people that are going to be using it will only be hotels/casinos/high end customer interactive businesses.


 

so Microsoft is a bad company with bad customer manners ?

please answer this !


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

Please don't compare politics with the IT/Computer industry -  that is where u dont understand a simple fact that business today in the corporate world is politics .... u have to join hands for ur benefti and u even have to break alliances for ur benefit ... people cheat in the corporate world ... ur first person who says that business/corporate world isnt like politics ...

and what do u try to imply by the fact that i cant buy a surface ... surface isnt new in computing so how does it spell doom for ms ... surface is something new a totaly new segment in which ms has ventured its a new device .... and u say hotels and high end customers are gonna buy it then u say it will spell doom for ms  kya bol rahe ho yaar ... any thing luxry is selling like hot cakes .... ferari is high end customers ... and ferrair is doomed  ... porsche is high end i didnt know porsche is doomed


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> so Microsoft is a bad company with bad customer manners ?
> please answer this !


 
Yeah, it's a bad company with bad customer ethics in the sense, they force people to buy a lot of sofware that they don't even want! Every single thing that they do is by keeping in mind their profits and customer satisfaction takes a back seat.

Can anyone tell me which sofware doesn't work on Win98? What game can't you play on Win98? Ofcourse the DX10 games, but does it mean that Win98 is not meant to support DX10? NO! If microsoft was ever concerned about the previous products they sold, then we all would have been working on a pimped up Win98 with DX10 support! The point is, we don't even need vista today except if you are going to play DX10 games which unfortunately is not the majority in the computing world. I'm not talking specifically about vista, it is just referenced to as the latest version of windows.

If MS was even concerned a bit about the existing customers, then for every new windows that comes out, they could have atleast provided an upgrade package at half the price considering they already had Windows and not force they to buy some piece of software that costs the laymen their one months salary! Do you see where it's going? Piracy, that were we all end up!


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

meh,there are alternate technologies (open source) for M$ Surface already jFyi.Linux MPX
*gizmodo.com/gadgets/touch-me/linux...free-diy-microsoft-surface-one-day-278613.php


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

haan toh thik hai acha hai there are options i myself am working on making my own surface but how does that spell doom for MS

@help~is~here almost all new games dont run on 98 ... their minimum requirement is xp ... dx 10 is not the only new thing in vista ... on the contrary thats the only thing that needs u to buy a new peice of hardware for optimum performance ... the rest of vista runs smooth on even a 5 yr old machine  only thing u dnt get is dx 10 ... but to defend dx 10 ... im sure u must v seen the screen shots of dx10 ... u cant have ps3 grafix on ps2 ... harware has to compliment software .... advancement only in 1 will need to no where


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> Please don't compare politics with the IT/Computer industry - that is where u dont understand a simple fact that business today in the corporate world is politics .... u have to join hands for ur benefti and u even have to break alliances for ur benefit ... people cheat in the corporate world ... ur first person who says that business/corporate world isnt like politics ...


 
Forget it... you are just manipulating the whole issue.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and what do u try to imply by the fact that i cant buy a surface ... surface isnt new in computing so how does it spell doom for ms ... surface is something new a totaly new segment in which ms has ventured its a new device .... and u say hotels and high end customers are gonna buy it then u say it will spell doom for ms  kya bol rahe ho yaar ... any thing luxry is selling like hot cakes .... ferari is high end customers ... and ferrair is doomed  ... porsche is high end i didnt know porsche is doomed


 
Dude, the surface computer is absolutely of no new use unless someone finds a new use for it. So, yes, rich people who like exclusivety will buy it and keep it on their desks.. that's all they can do with it.. nothing more.. And the story is not going to be any different from XBox360. So, if you still think that larger sales means profit like in the case of the 360.. what do I say?


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Yeah, it's a bad company with bad customer ethics in the sense, they force people to buy a lot of sofware that they don't even want! Every single thing that they do is by keeping in mind their profits and customer satisfaction takes a back seat.
> 
> Can anyone tell me which sofware doesn't work on Win98? What game can't you play on Win98? Ofcourse the DX10 games, but does it mean that Win98 is not meant to support DX10? NO! If microsoft was ever concerned about the previous products they sold, then we all would have been working on a pimped up Win98 with DX10 support! The point is, we don't even need vista today except if you are going to play DX10 games which unfortunately is not the majority in the computing world. I'm not talking specifically about vista, it is just referenced to as the latest version of windows.
> 
> If MS was even concerned a bit about the existing customers, then for every new windows that comes out, they could have atleast provided an upgrade package at half the price considering they already had Windows and not force they to buy some piece of software that costs the laymen their one months salary! Do you see where it's going? Piracy, that were we all end up!


 
what is your age ?

How can you even say that windows 98 should be supported with DX 10.. ?

what OS r u using right now ?

you talk it is a bad company ! i guess 30000 partners and over 60000 employees M$ works in favour of the software market for today..

bad customer experience : i dont think 24hr service is a bad one.. even Microsoft responds to your mail within 6 hrs. is this what you call bad customer experience.. ?
bad customer exp. : thats why 80% People use Microsoft windows ?


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> @help~is~here almost all new games dont run on 98 ... their minimum requirement is xp ... dx 10 is not the only new thing in vista ... on the contrary thats the only thing that needs u to buy a new peice of hardware for optimum performance ... the rest of vista runs smooth on even a 5 yr old machine  only thing u dnt get is dx 10 ... but to defend dx 10 ... im sure u must v seen the screen shots of dx10


 
New games don't run on it coz new games need DX10. You are loosing the whole point! I'm not talking about what is new in Vista, I'm talking about the requirement or need to ever upgrade to vista without been offered a fair treat from MS for atleast having one of their existing products..


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

so less profit in xbox means ms is doomed ... again xobxo or windows isnt the only thing ms runs on ...

new games matlab most wanted ... underground 1 ... underground 2 .. they are not dx 10 ... yaar now ur talking no sense ... abhi tak thik tha now ur just saying anything ...

and also if u think that if everything is very discrete and tranparent and absolutely no wrong doing is done in companies other than ms then ur wrong and unaware of facts


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

~Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> If MS was even concerned a bit about the existing customers, then for every new windows that comes out, they could have atleast provided an upgrade package at half the price considering they already had Windows and not force they to buy some piece of software that costs the laymen their one months salary! Do you see where it's going? Piracy, that were we all end up!


M$ is more concerned on their business strategies to kill alternate or competitiors rather than supporting old os-they sure are forcing their customers to upgrade both h/w and software with each upgrades.how many times shud this be told?.lately we came to know that SCO Unix is doomed which is funded by Microsoft for spreading Fear,Uncertainity & doubt reg Linux OS.if one is over then another-now we have another bullet from monopoly OS maker-Linux infringes their patents  jeez,let them tell what Linux infringes!-but M$ wont tell that(if any)-the agenda is clear.FUD the competitors to extinguish from the OS market,agree?.u can see wikipedia M$ criticism section for more.
again personal opin,dont get temper high:
I(we?) dont want a company which is locking down their users rights with EULA & forces upgrade of both hardware and software(Vista).

this is an opin many ppl world over expresses.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> what is your age ?
> 
> How can you even say that windows 98 should be supported with DX 10.. ?
> 
> ...


 
I wouldn't expect anything more from a MVP 

when I mean Customer service, I'm not talking about their call centers. However, their call centers are one of the worst as well. I've been working in the Tech Customer Management Industry for atleast 7years now, so you should know what my age is. And also, please try to make sense of things and not take it literally, I didn't mean "bad company", I meant "bad company with bad customer ethics"

I don't understand what is wrong in asking DX10 support for 98? Why? you think I'm insane? Well, that's because we have all jumped into the MS bandwagon and got ourselves blindfolded and directed ourselves to do what exactly MS wanted to do.

And maybe you are not aware that the so called 80% of desktop users are using windows because they are not aware of the alternatives and not because windows is the best! And maybe you are also not aware of the ever increasing replacements of Windows with Linux both on the home level and the enterprise level.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

prakash but thats what we are trying to clear ur misconception ... vista doesnt need u to upgrade ur hardware .... 4-5 year old machines run vista absolutely fine

98 and dx 10 in 2007 .... i rest my case ...  man i thought arya was the best at cracking tech jokes


----------



## praka123 (Sep 5, 2007)

^my friend too is a windows user-he tried Vista on a system with  p4 3.Ghz processor,512MB ram,80GB sata etc (3 yrs old).I too saw Vista crawling to boot.there was delay with apps to launch and boot time too is long.but i shud say the artwork(themes etc) are good.but what ur saying is complete wrong.Vista to be smooth experiance  needs a 2GB RAM & a 20+GB partn;agree?
^^ I am not isolated from Windows.i am seeing what ppl are experiancing.there must be a need for h/w upgrade with Vista.forgot the Vista version friend used though.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

m config: 512 mb ram, p4 3 ghz ... it doesnt crawl .. believe me ... with aero enabled yes its slow at times but even linux is slow on my rigs at times ... slax/ubuntu both have lagged at times


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> prakash but thats what we are trying to clear ur misconception ... vista doesnt need u to upgrade ur hardware .... 4-5 year old machines run vista absolutely fine
> 
> 98 and dx 10 in 2007 .... i rest my case ...  man i thought arya was the best at cracking tech jokes


 
can I run Win Vista on a 256MB machine with an inbuild GFX card on which my XP is running well? or don't I need to upgrade


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> I wouldn't expect anything more from a MVP
> 
> when I mean Customer service, I'm not talking about their call centers. However, their call centers are one of the worst as well. I've been working in the Tech Customer Management Industry for atleast 7years now, so you should know what my age is. And also, please try to make sense of things and not take it literally, I didn't mean "bad company", I meant "bad company with bad customer ethics"
> 
> ...


 
trying to turn tables ....

what you mean you cant expect anything else from a MVP.. thats not fair.. i do support OSS.. see my posts if you find anything like that... 

first of all This thread was created in news section.. it would be in Chit-chat (now i moved it) , then you created a flamable thread.. 

The Reason i didnt wanted to post in this thread was that you guys might call me a M$ support.. which i am not

i am not on this thread much.. but i dont think i will close this thread now.. i am reporting this to admins.. and i know what will be the end for this..


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

no vista wont run on 128 at the same time before u jump that linux will run and blah balh ... i have in my hand ubuntu version 6.06 LTS which on the cover says pc with atleast 256 mb ram ... the fact help~is~here which im trying to tell u again and agian but ur not ready to accept is that ... software and hardware both have to compliment each other ... advancement only in 1 cant take place ... its not only computers its everywhere ...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> because of the fact that what ever presented isclearly the thruth and logical reasoning can tell you that.



Source & prove of this point plz. Just cos a random Linux user think this...he wrote this & this became a truth? Internet is a weird place. I think George Bush is a reptile & son of Voldemort...so it should be true too/



> people expect things to be cheap and available freely to them because they expect things like computers to help easily without being a money monker.



I know coding, I make apps for u, u use that to sale burger & pay me for making the software. Is it wrong to ask for a payment for my labor?



> there are lot of other softwares that are alternatively available either free or at a fraction of the price.



Ya about that, ever tried looking at Windows Market place or Download.com for free & good software for Windows itself? U think free software are available only in case of Linux? 



> Money being charged for very specifically used applications can be justified, but sofware for everyday use(OS) being charged?



Wait, an OS is not a software? Is it wrong to charge for the base, the foundation on which u work everyday, play music, watch TV....? Wow...u just shaked the whole software industry.

U tell me, if u make a software which changes the way u watch TV, Would u give it for free or charge some fees for it? U have an art, will u give it for free or sale it? If I know sculpturing, I can make a new toilet model  which people will use everyday. So by this logic should I start giving & selling it for free?



> I don't think that is justified when there are a hell lot of other alternative softwares that can be available for free!



Does MS stops u from using Linux? Or free OSS software like Pidgin in Windows? Use whatever u want, why r u blaming MS. If you think like this, I interpret that U will switch back to Windows if it is free.



> but the case with software has been the other way around. The prices have always been going away from the reach of common man and let me tell you that, that is a very bad monopolistic greedy idea in this age where computing is available at a much cheaper rate!



Now I do agree that software is overpriced, but it shouldn't be given for free just like that. An OS is the foundation, so....it should be free but a media player should not. Wow, gr8 logic. Whats monopolistic about it? Do u even know the meaning.

Let me give u an example. Photoshop is the de-facto standard of image editing but costs a lot, but hey GIMP is free isn't it, its also OSS means u can modify the code according to what u want. But is GIMP any close to Photoshop when it comes to features? Why do u think Photoshop rules the image editor market despite of its price, its the feature set & integration with other software, camera, plugins etc.....but hey GIMP is free, paramount & Pixar should switch to GIMP, they will save lots of money too according to your logic.



> The point is simple, if you don't bring down the price, we are going to look for alternatives!



Fine, Look for alternative. U have time to look for alternatives, & while U do that, I m going to watch the new HD DVD of Matrix I bought today on WMP11 in Vista



> If anyone thinks that the hundreds of big corporates who are replacing their entire infrastructure with cheaper linux based models are nut crackers and are dumb idiots who are stupid, then I don't know what to say about the person who thinks like that?



U r an admin right? I doubt your business skills now. Ever thought why they are switching to Linux? What do they run whole day? WMP11 or Solitaire or Doom 3 or just one billing or taxing software? They switch to Linux cos they usually run only one or 2 software whole day & even I recommend Linux in such situation cos there is no Cheap Windows availble in such case other then Terminal Server but thats a thin client. First know why they are switching, just cos they are switching to Linux doesn't means Linux is good for desktop too. It suits there needs, thats it.



> And also if you think companies like IBM, Dell and HP who happened to be the largest desktop PC manufacturers in the world are pre-installing linux on their systems because they are stupid and have seen the potential, then again, I don't know what to say to people who think so!



Wait, U think MS runs these companies? For gods sake....they do what the consumer demands. If I demand for SGI IRIX in an HP workstation they can give me that too....they are just selling there product. What are u trying to justify here?



> And also the no. of Linux Apache servers compared to Windows servers will tell you the story about how well MS is in the server market! [/QUOTE
> 
> Yeah, Hey HiH, if my apache breaks who should I contact?
> 
> ...


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> trying to turn tables ....
> 
> what you mean you cant expect anything else from a MVP.. thats not fair.. i do support OSS.. see my posts if you find anything like that...
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry that it was my mistake that it was posted under random news, should have been here or in the fight club.

Anyways, the whole point of the discussion I see or I'm trying to make is that, we should all try to get out of the MS clamshell and see what's out there and start using those alternatives. Because unless we start using them, they are not going to be improved any further. I think it's a basic human right that everyone should get 'affordable computing' and not be forced to throw huge sums of money to get a computer considering the common man. Most of the Indian parents haven't been able to get computers for their learning kids only because of these prohibitive prices while I believe that it's the right of those childrent to have computing at this age and era but alas they are denied. Branded computer come with Branded OS like Vista for which the parents have to end up paying more because normal parents don't know what in the world assembling is nor are they interested in it. They just see a few ads on the paper, and voila! what do they see? Branded computers and highly unaffordable prices. Now please don't come back and say that it's not the sofwares which make branded PCs more costly, I've worked with Dell product management for 3years and I know who what and when or why their prices are so.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

@gx arre chill yaar ... 

help~is~here branded computers come with linux also 

and now the thread starter has accpeted that ms is not dooming ... so now i think this thread serves no purpose and please enlighten me on why dell costs so much


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

> I don't understand what is wrong in asking DX10 support for 98? Why? you think I'm insane? Well, that's because we have all jumped into the MS bandwagon and got ourselves blindfolded and directed ourselves to do what exactly MS wanted to do.


WDDM, which needs a new kernel. So MS should go back, throw all there labour & money they spend in developing DX 10 & new kernel & give it to Win 98 users for free? Gr8 Logic



> can I run Win Vista on a 256MB machine with an inbuild GFX card on which my XP is running well? or don't I need to upgrade


Yes you can. Use Vlite. Zeeshan is also using it this way.



> Anyways, the whole point of the discussion I see or I'm trying to make is that, we should all try to get out of the MS clamshell and see what's out there and start using those alternatives.


Ok...U do that, u have time for that. I don't. I want to do my work & for doing that I will pay MS to give me an OS which works with my other softwares such as 3Ds Max, AutoCAD & Photoshop.



> I think it's a basic human right that everyone should get 'affordable computing' and not be forced to throw huge sums of money to get a computer considering the common man. Most of the Indian parents haven't been able to get computers for their learning kids only because of these prohibitive prices while I believe that it's the right of those childrent to have computing at this age and era but alas they are denied.


Noble thought...but again, should an OS or software be given for free like this? Menas software developers are robots who don't have families to run, right?

Hey HiH, you ask for DX 10 for Windows 98, hey are we still suing Red Hat linux 6? Shouldn't we be able to update the kernel, KDE, everything too in Red Hat Linux 6?

Oh wait, we can...they just update it, package it as Red Hat Linux 7 & charge for the research & development money they spend in it.

U talk like a 13 years old kid


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> WDDM, which needs a new kernel. So MS should go back, throw all there labour & money they spend in developing DX 10 & new kernel & give it to Win 98 users for free? Gr8 Logic
> 
> Ok...U do that, u have time for that. I don't. I want to do my work & for doing that I will pay MS to give me an OS which works with my other softwares such as 3Ds Max, AutoCAD & Photoshop.
> 
> Noble thought...but again, should an OS or software be given for free like this? Menas software developers are robots who don't have families to run, right?


 
I'm really not going to waste my time trying to pick each point and manipulate it to something that you didn't mean like you did. Hmm.. hard to convince fanboys like you @gx. Why do you have to sperate each and every sentence I quote so that they seem completely irrelevant to what I said and something meaningless? if you want to quote from now on, please quote the entire paragraph and then explain what you would like to. Because when I write, one sentence is linked to the other. So stop manipulating what I said!

I never said hardwork shouldn't be payed, it should be rewarded with propostorous amounts of money is my point. This again, you have managed to manipulate in several of your quotes.

Talking about Win98 doesn't mean or point to the fact that we should all go back to 98. It simply implies how microsoft has disregarded it's existing base along the journey of new operating systems!

I am telling you again, If you are quoting me, quote my entire paragraph and not just one sentence. Don't manipulate what I'm saying.

@gx, on another thread too, I asked you to learn something, I guess you haven't learnt it yet. Oh wait, iMaV is going to back you up now by telling me not to act like your father


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

some 1 mentioned that ms took 5 years to come with vista ... aur kitna time chahye

ms came with a version after 5 years and always have maintained a considerable time between new versions on the contrary theres an alternative that comes with a new version every 6 months ...


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

Show me an easier way to install an OS!
*www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-28756.html*www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-28721.html


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> I'm really not going to waste my time trying to pick each point and manipulate it to something that you didn't mean like you did. Hmm.. hard to convince fanboys like you @gx.


Didn't u asked us fanboys to reply in this this thread in your first post itself by saying 



> I'm quite sure 'gx' and 'imav' will have lot of comments on this one!



Why r u afraid to listen to the valid explanation?



> Why do you have to sperate each and every sentence I quote so that they seem completely irrelevant to what I said and something meaningless? if you want to quote from now on, please quote the entire paragraph and then explain what you would like to. Because when I write, one sentence is linked to the other. So stop manipulating what I said!



Overall your posts have no connection to reality or business sence. Thre I said it, now bite me 



> Talking about Win98 doesn't mean or point to the fact that we should all go back to 98. It simply implies how microsoft has disregarded it's existing base along the journey of new operating systems!


 
Since u really don't know how a business & Windows work, I m gonna give u a real world example.

I have a maruti zen car. Its a nice car, it lets me drive to my office. It gives me space, design, milage etc.

Now maruti designer & developed a new engine. They found that the old brake system isn't good enough for this new engine's power so they make a new brake system. Then they saw that the engine is not fitting in existing Zen's chassis, so they made a new chassis, but this means making a whole new car. So they made a whole new car with new engine, brake system etc.

But now, according to your logc if maruti sales them, it is wrong. Instead they should let me upgrade the engine in my existing zen even if it doesn't fits. i can use some hammer time.....it will fit after all . Maruti should forget all there research & developement cost & give the engine to me for free so that I can somehow fit it in my existing zen instead of new Swift.



> @gx, on another thread too, I asked you to learn something, I guess you haven't learnt it yet.



When u mentioned that DirectX 10 can be given in Windows 98, & why do we need DirectX 10 over DirectX 9c, or the only thing vista has over XP is DirectX 10, that explaind to me, to every gamer & every user here who is reading this the level of knowledge u have.

U tell me, why don't u use Ubuntu 4.04 still, why upgrade to Ubuntu 7.04? Whats the point? U can always update the kernel seperately, install new version of GNOME on Ubuntu 4.04, install new VLC & gstreamer, so why do u install full Ubuntu 7.04 instead of updating existing one.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

^^ You simply don't get the point, do you? I figured out long way back there is no point in arguing with you, so I'll leave it to your ignorance and keep driving your zen.

Anyways for the rest of you who is listening to gx's beautifully manipulation of what I said, just to make it clear, read what I posted rather than what someone else interprets what he thought I was saying.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> @gx arre chill yaar ...
> 
> help~is~here branded computers come with linux also


 
That's what I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, and could you possibly give me an answer as why that is?


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

why what is


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> ^^ You simply don't get the point, do you? I figured out long way back there is no point in arguing with you, so I'll leave it to your ignorance and keep driving your zen.


If you cannot listen to some explanation of Microsoft's choice of such business practise, then don't bother saying they are doomed. When u don't know how & why they make money, u shouldn't be saying they are doomed.

Seriously, u tell me one thing. JUst take that example for Maruti Zen, & place DX 10 in place of it, Then tell me whether DirctX 10 would fit in Windows 98's kernel. It can't even fit in Windows XP without a massive kernel re-write. Instead of giving that as a free upgrade they made it available as Vista where DX10 fits properly.

U were comparing it to Linux , tell me ....why do u update to Ubuntu 7.04 & not run Ubuntu 4.04 only by updating Kernel, GNOME, Gstreamer packages in it. Why do they update the whole distro?



> That's what I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, and could you possibly give me an answer as why that is?



Hardware manufacturers give what the customer wants. People asked for AMD so dell started giving AMD, U didn't say at that time that Intel is going down, intel is monopoly, then why now? How many computer models Dell is giving Ubuntu on? If tomorrow people start asking for IBM AIX or SGI IRIX, Dell will also give that, simple.....whats to explain in it?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Seriously, u tell me one thing. JUst take that example for Maruti Zen, & place DX 10 in place of it, Then tell me whether DirctX 10 would fit in Windows 98's kernel. It can't even fit in Windows XP without a massive kernel re-write. Instead of giving that as a free upgrade they made it available as Vista where DX10 fits properly.


the alky project! i know its not native to winxp. but cudn't MS haf provided a wrapper for dx10 for winxp? i mean i can understand that asking dx10 support for win98 is jus too much. but MS can't neglect winxp at this moment.

*www.fallingleafsystems.com/compatibility/



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> U were comparing it to Linux , tell me ....why do u update to Ubuntu 7.04 & not run Ubuntu 4.04 only by updating Kernel, GNOME, Gstreamer packages in it. Why do they update the whole distro?


yes, you can. you don't need to upgrade to 7.04. it will run very well. you may only update selective components. seeing is believe. so go and try it out urself.

won't say anything else here......


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> the alky project! i know its not native to winxp. but cudn't MS haf provided a wrapper for dx10 for winxp? i mean i can understand that asking dx10 support for win98 is jus too much.


Right, do u know how Alky is working? Do u know whether the performance & stability is gonna be same as DX 10 on Vista. You can re-compile the geometry shader to native machine code with performance hit, but can u bring WDDM kind of stability to this in XP. Can u bring "hardware reset", "hardware virtualisation of GPU" in XP without the new kernel? I doubt that.

*DirectX 10 can be back ported to Windows XP but this will need rewrite of 50% of Windows XP, Its better to release it as a new Car,...I mean OS then give in a service pack.*



> yes, you can. you don't need to upgrade to 7.04. it will run very well. you may only update selective components. seeing is believe. so go and try it out urself.


Sure, when new version of GNOME was released I asked in OSS section that should I upgrade this on ubuntu 6.06, every one said wait & upgrade the Whole OS cos much more is changed. Search for it, must be there in OSS section somewhere.

With this logic, why is Ubuntu released new version every 6 months? Why can't they just update the packages & put them in synaptic? We can still use Ubuntu 4.04 can't we, with all packages pimped.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Right, do u know how Alky is working? Do u know whether the performance & stability is gonna be same as DX 10 on Vista. You can re-compile the geometry shader to native machine code with performance hit, but can u bring WDDM kind of stability to this in XP. Can u bring "hardware reset", "hardware virtualisation of GPU" in XP without the new kernel? I doubt that.
> 
> *DirectX 10 can be back ported to Windows XP but this will need rewrite of 50% of Windows XP, Its better to release it as a new Car,...I mean OS then give in a service pack.*


thats rite, and thats what i said! its not native!!!! but i mentioned abt the word "wrapper" and it is implied that the same performance can't be obtained. thats common sense.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure, when new version of GNOME was released I asked in OSS section that should I upgrade this on ubuntu 6.06, every one said wait & upgrade the Whole OS cos much more is changed. Search for it, must be there in OSS section somewhere.
> 
> With this logic, why is Ubuntu released new version every 6 months? Why can't they just update the packages & put them in synaptic? We can still use Ubuntu 4.04 can't we, with all packages pimped.


 yes you can. i dunno when you did that.. i dun remember. but the newer version was recommended so that you can get latest versions of all the packages and are manually saved from updatation of the packages (which are in no way related to the working and stability of the OS core!) but if you don't need them then even an old version of ubuntu will run fine wid jus the kernel upgrade. i told you... don't believe me.. try it for urself....


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> thats rite, and thats what i said! its not native!!!! but i mentioned abt the word "wrapper" and it is implied that the same performance can't be obtained. thats common sense.


So, does that makes sence? When Games run slow users & gamers will again blame MS that DX 10 is slow on XP. Well...MS just saved it self from the blame.

Does it makes sence to buy a new DX10 gfx card for $200, & run the games on XP slower then Vista cos there is a wrapper used in case of XP?



> but the newer version was recommended so that you can get latest versions of all the packages and are manually saved from updatation of the packages


Yeah, & thats called Windows Vista . New technologies packaged in a new OS form. Glad u could understand this.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So, does that makes sence? When Games run slow users & gamers will again blame MS that DX 10 is slow on XP. Well...MS just saved it self from the blame.
> 
> Does it makes sence to buy a new DX10 gfx card for $200, & run the games on XP slower then Vista cos there is a wrapper used in case of XP?


yes it makes sense. why think only of games? why not others that also need DX10? what abt something like aero right from MS itself? but then i don't blame them. its business. they are out to earn money not to do charity. SE cud've re written the BT stack and added A2DP support to w810i instead they intro'd w610i, widout any significant change. thats business.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yeah, & thats called Windows Vista . New technologies packaged in a new OS form. Glad u could understand this.


you don't seem to get it. linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows! i hope you understand what i said.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> why think only of games? why not others that also need DX10? what abt something like aero right from MS itself?



Aero needs DirectX 9 & doesn't need DX 10 at all. With Vista SP1, if you have a DX 10 or DX 10.1 gfx card, it will use aero in DX 10.x mode resulting in more work being done in less GPU clock cycles. Thats efficiency which DX 9 lacks.

Aero could have been supported in XP too, but again, that requires DWM, XP uses GDI+ which means again a complete rewrite of the XP Display engine, which again means a lot of changes to the kernel. Now U tell me whether from a business point of view this is good or not. U think MS should give this in SP3 for free despite of the fact that they spend lots of money in research & development of DX 10 & Aero.



> linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows!



IRD...another noob problem with u. Did u forget what happened when MS gave simple PDF saving functionality in Vista & Office 2007. They got sued. Did u forget what happened when MS was giving WMP in Windows? They got sued...what happened when MS made the kernel in Vista X64 secure, they got sued. Sorry, MS can't bundle an office suite with Vista, if they do they will get sued. MS can't fix or make vista secure, cos they are not allowed to.

Doesn't Window comes with IE 7 already?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Aero needs DirectX 9 & doesn't need DX 10 at all. With Vista SP1, if you have a DX 10 or DX 10.1 gfx card, it will use aero in DX 10.x mode resulting in more work being done in less GPU clock cycles. Thats efficiency which DX 9 lacks.


yes i said that and also agreed that MS can't do this coz they are here for business.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> IRD...another noob problem with u. Did u forget what happened when MS gave simple PDF saving functionality in Vista & Office 2007. They got sued. Did u forget what happened when MS was giving WMP in Windows? They got sued...what happened when MS made the kernel in Vista X64 secure, they got sued. Sorry, MS can't bundle an office suite with Vista, if they do they will get sued. MS can't fix or make vista secure, cos they are not allowed to.


i said somthing and you completely misunderstood what i said!!! plz read what i posted again.. and again...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

> yes i said that and also agreed that MS can't do this coz they are here for business.


So, what did MS do wrong by not supporting DX 10 in XP which results in slow performance? I hope you can tell HiH now.



> i said something and you completely misunderstood what i said!!! plz read what i posted again.. and again...


You said Linux comes with a browser, office suite inbuilt. I said Windows Vista comes with IE 7 (Web browser) & explained why MS can't bundle other productivity application with Windows, its due to lawsuits.

Ok you tell me, was it justified for Real Network to sue MS for including Windows Media Player in XP? MS cannot give many features in Windows cos they are not allowed to. If it was not for these Lawsuits, we would be seeing Vista in a completely different state today with all the Pimps & bells.

If it wasen't for lawsuits, MS would have given 1000 of small & usefull application in Vista itself, leaving no need for 3rd party developers to exist cos everything is already there in Windows itself.  I hope U will kick someone who sues MS then....cos first people ask MS to gives feature in Windows, & when MS does, other people sue MS for giving those features.

Microsoft, Damned if they do, damned if they don't


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

@GX
ur basic understanding skills need an overhaul!

what i said was this:



			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> you don't seem to get it. linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows! i hope you understand what i said.


you said why do u need a new distro? i said so that you don't hafta manually update all these software which come bundled wid linux. if u dun need the new versions of these software then don't do it. jus update the kernel and specific packages which u need and keep using an old distro.

u said thats exactly why vista is here: to give u a new kernel and new packages. i said what packages? office apps, multimedia apps, scientific apps... all these don't come wid windows rather they are not a part of the os core. so wid windows you actually update only the os core componenets and not utility software whereas a new linux distro is not only about newer kernel but also newer versions of other bundled software which are independent of the os core (meaning tom, if u remove the newer version of office ur linux box will still run!) i hope you get it. if you still don't get it then i'm sorry i can't help it...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> wid windows you actually update only the os core componenets and not utility software whereas a new linux distro is not only about newer kernel but also newer versions of other bundled software which are independent of the os core



So, Direct X 10, IE 7, ASR, Bitlocker, Aero, A GPU accelerated UI, IPv6 support, Hybrid HD support, native support for Intel HD Audio, Windows Cardspace, Windows Sideshow is not worth updating XP to Vista?

Who makes flash? Microsoft or Adobe? So who should give the new update? Microsoft or Adobe.

Who makes PowrDVD, Microsoft or Cyberlink? So who should provide the new update? Microsoft or Cyberlink.

Thats it, I can't explain something to u if U don't know what is it that Vista provides over XP.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

ird  ... ur point of updating linux for updating pother application is kinda hard to digest coming from u ... in all fairness its an invalid point

@every1 else ... HiH has accepted that the 7 pints cited do not result in ms being doomed and HiH ... installing vista is as simple as installing firefox on windows


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> why what is


 
Why do you think they are shipping open source OS with Branded Computers rather than going with MS XP or Vista.

@gx, since you don't at all understand the point that i made, I'll explain it to you once again.

There is a very good reason why I told DX10 for 98. And you yourself with your explanations give the answer that MS wants everyone to hear and not at all understand what it actually implies. The same business tactic that you are talking about that MS uses is what no one likes and that's what is taking it down, not the products. And that is what is implied when I say "bad company with bad customer ethics"

Some of the forum users who are familiar with what I say might realize that althought I know the technical aspect of things, when I speak, I speak from the very common home users perspective. And that is something that not lot of companies do. They get carried away by so many things that the average home users needs are shunned. And that is what unfortunately people like you are also doing, not looking at the very basic picture.

I'll give you and example, when I mean DX10 for 98. From a very standard home users perspective who doesn't know much about kernel changes or what DX10 really means, he has only one question, why can't Win98 support DX10 when I've paid for it? The price at launch for Win98 was approx $100. Now, as far a standard home user is concerned, he's paid $100 for a product, so why can't it support DX10? That is where you will come with points about kernel being too large or the Maruthi Zen concept. I understand the point you are trying to make, but you don't seem to understand what that implies. I've told so many times not to compare things with something that is totally differnt and yet you compare. So, I'll take your comparison and tell you where you forgot to look for the answer!
Now, yes, you will need to upgrade from time to time when there are newer models available whether it's a car or a piece of hardware. This is where I told as in previous posts asking why MS is not letting it's users upgrade at a fair discounted price because they have a previous version of windows and not force them into paying a propostorous price and abandon the previous OS completely. This is where you are overlooking the point. Now, you might say, oh, when you upgrade, obviously you have to buy a new copy and there is not point in getting an upgrade copy for a lesser price or that you are not going to get a new car at a discounted price just because you got another car of the same company. 
Let me bring back your concept of Maruthi Zen, when you get a new engine and it doesn't fit in your car, you will need to get a new one but here, you are not throwing away the previous car you had, you sell it and get a price which inturn is going to be a part of the cash that you use to buy a new car! The same with hardware, when you upgrade, you sell off your previous hardware and make some cash which you use to get a new one, so effectievely you are paying lesser for a new piece of hardware!
But the problem is that you can't sell old sofware! no one will buy old second hand sofware and then comes the issue of piracy if you sell that copy you had! Do you see where I'm coming from? This is the whole difference and stop comparing again with something irrelevant if you don't know how things work.

Again, from a standard users view, I don't care if it's impossible because I've paid for it! Why did they take money from me if they can't do it? That's where I'm asking you as to why Companies like MS are not selling their OS at a discounted rate as an upgrade for people who already have another version!!!! On top of that, they dont' allow you to sell your previous sofware because then it amounts to piracy, what the heck is all this? This is called forcing if you still can't figure it out!

Do you see where you are being blindfolded @gx? So, the next time you start arguing and saying things like, oh, how kiddish are you and I know how much of an admin you are, learn to understand what someone says actualy implies! And likeI told you in so many other threads, go learn "respect" because kids like you really need to learn it before you grow up.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

from a simple users perspective ... 98 is hardly used ...  and those who use 98 cant game its that simple ... if they want to game they need a high end machine and if they have a high end machine they wont install 98 on it .... now how do u expect most wanted like graphics on a sis 6326 .... 

and why oss is bundled is coz it has acceptance and ppl either want it or it reduces the price of the product ...


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> @GX
> ur basic understanding skills need an overhaul!


 
^^ +10



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> from a simple users perspective ... 98 is hardly used ...  and those who use 98 cant game its that simple ... if they want to game they need a high end machine and if they have a high end machine they wont install 98 on it .... now how do u expect most wanted like graphics on a sis 6326 ....
> 
> and why oss is bundled is coz it has acceptance and ppl either want it or it reduces the price of the product ...


 
@iMaV, please don't loose sight of the point like gx. I'm not asking anyone to go back to Win98, read what I wrote, I'm talking about upgrade pricing which is non existent where MS is forcing you to cough up money for something you already own!



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> @every1 else ... HiH has accepted that the 7 pints cited do not result in ms being doomed and HiH ... installing vista is as simple as installing firefox on windows


 
Please, don't say something that I haven't said, read all previous posts once again if you are not clear

And I hope this link gives you the answer to Microsoft's monopoly starting a decade ago and answer your so desperate question as to what is monopoly:
*news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/78112.stm


*Hot News:* Microsoft finding New Ways to Stay Afloat, announcing product support for Open Source OS Linux!
*arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070905-microsoft-releases-silverlight-1-0-announces-linux-support.html


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

upgrade pricing is microsoft's perogative its their wish .... we all want that what we desire should cost less but thats not the case ... if ms doesnt have a upgrade offer their marketing team simply feels they dont need it ... they believe that their product and brand has the ability to fetch the amount ...

so u still believe that the 7 points spell doom for ms


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> upgrade pricing is microsoft's perogative its their wish .... we all want that what we desire should cost less but thats not the case ... if ms doesnt have a upgrade offer their marketing team simply feels they dont need it ... they believe that their product and brand has the ability to fetch the amount ...


 
You still support Microsoft on that and don't understand that it is what majority of the world is starting to hate. So, finally you agreed that it is a problem but now says it's up to MS? And you say they bundle Linux with branded PC's because that is what people want? Finally, you get your facts right but still fail to agree that people want things other than MS which inturn is going to spell the end of MS. What is your logic iMaV? You agree but you disagree??  

And plese read the hot news in the last post! 



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> so u still believe that the 7 points spell doom for ms


 
Why do I need to repeatedly prove it to you? Again iMaV, you're starting your one liners and not giving any kind of valid responses trying to manipulate everything.


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

1. which question ... 

2. dude wats wrong with u ... ms isnt a charity organisation its a bloody private organisation .... who doesnt need a 911 carrera gt at the price of a maruti 800 who doesnt need a p1i at the price of 1100 .... does it mean we start hating porsche and SE coz they charge more ... or it is compulsary that if i own a SE handset SE should give me my next SE model at a discount


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> 2. dude wats wrong with u ... ms isnt a charity organisation its a bloody private organisation .... who doesnt need a 911 carrera gt at the price of a maruti 800 who doesnt need a p1i at the price of 1100 .... does it mean we start hating porsche and SE


 
Why do you still compare when you don't understand the difference between the computing industry and the car industry? I'm seriously fed up with arguing with ProMS guys like you! Why don't you read the posts clrearly which tells you what mistakes you guys are making when you compare the wrong INDUSTRIES!! Grow up iMaV, understand what things imply and please read the posts carefully and don't say the same thing after reading it because I don't want to waste my time writing the same thing trying to expain it to you over again.

*Stop thread crapping and flame provoking.*


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

there is no dfference between the car industry the cell phone industry the liquor industry the IT industry when it comes to business ... the goal is 1 ... sell more and increase profit ... and the company who has a better product wins  for the past few decades ots ms


----------



## entrana (Sep 5, 2007)

IMO microsoft shud make dx10 come in xp, because going to vista is not worth it and they are losing their preciious money, besides its an advantage to all of us ei?


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

@ entrana:gx has already answered that ...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Why do you think they are shipping open source OS with Branded Computers rather than going with MS XP or Vista.


Don't u get it after so many times of explaining. If the customer ask for it, they give it. Simple. Microsoft isn't running Dell & HP



> The same business tactic that you are talking about that MS uses is what no one likes and that's what is taking it down, not the products. And that is what is implied when I say "bad company with bad customer ethics"


So according to you it is wrong for MS to charge for all the money they spend in the research & development of DirectX 10, IPv6, Vista, Aero, DWM. I don't know, but one advice to u, never start your own software company 



> And that is something that not lot of companies do. They get carried away by so many things that the average home users needs are shunned. And that is what unfortunately people like you are also doing, not looking at the very basic picture.


Who faces Piracy the most in this world? Is it Apple or is it Microsoft or Adobe or Autodesk? If you have some idea to prevent piracy then plz come forward with it so that MS can recover the money they loose by piracy so that overall they can release the software for cheap.

You talk that Indians should have affordable computing. Right....despite of all the high cost Indians pirates Windows a lot. So the money of an Indian user is money, which he shouldn't pay for such High priced Windows, but the money MS loses on every pirated Windows isn't money? Wow.....plz don't ever start a business.


> Why can't Win98 support DX10 when I've paid for it? The price at launch for Win98 was approx $100. Now, as far a standard home user is concerned, he's paid $100 for a product, so why can't it support DX10?


Because technology is changed. Windows 98 will need a complete rewrite of the whole OS to support DirectX 10. It was released in 1998. I don't know but do u still see Sony making lens for Playstation 1? or Maruti making parts for the old OMNI Model in large quantity?

Windows 98 cannot support Direct 10 cos that needs a new kernel, new driver model, new display model, new everything. Developing all this uses money which Microsoft cannot give for free. They are also a business where many software developers work & they need to pay them too.

U paid $100 for Windows 98 10 years ago, you have recovered the cost of Windows 98 with so much work that u have done on your computer. U can continue to work on it if u like, Windows 98 lacks the resources to support DX 10 so it has no DX 10.

R U on pot asking for DX 10 for Win98 when XP bought so much stability compared to Windows 98 which Vista has extended further.



> why MS is not letting it's users upgrade at a fair discounted price because they have a previous version of windows and not force them into paying a propostorous price and abandon the previous OS completely.


You really don't know about the upgrade edition of Windows Vista & XP Do U :d. They are much cheaper then retail edition.



> But the problem is that you can't sell old sofware! no one will buy old second hand sofware and then comes the issue of piracy if you sell that copy you had!


You can buy the new software at a lower price compared to retail software. Isn't this the same as selling your old OS?



> why Companies like MS are not selling their OS at a discounted rate as an upgrade for people who already have another version!!!!


Lolz.....I don't know what to say now. *Ever heard about upgrade prices of any software company? *Adobe gives Photoshop CS3 at discount prise if u already have Photoshop CS2. Do U even know the concept & the fact the upgrade edition of software already exist since years .



> On top of that, they dont' allow you to sell your previous sofware because then it amounts to piracy, what the heck is all this? This is called forcing if you still can't figure it out!


Its not your software, u paid a license to use it. U didn't buy the right to screw the OS, & mod it the way u want to sale it again.



> Do you see where you are being blindfolded @gx?


Nope...I m watching some HD Porn encoded in a HD DVD right now in Vista which I can't do in Linux. Sorry I can't see your point 


> So, the next time you start arguing and saying things


So the next time u start provoking threads asking out replies, make sure u have the time & understanding knowledge of accepting facts of what others say.

U hate the MS business model? Fine, don't use it. Now don't sing a song in a Crossroad or here in the forum. People will use what they like.



> *I'm talking about upgrade pricing which is non existent *where MS is forcing you to cough up money for something you already own!


ROFL 

u r an Admin, no seriously, u r? tell me which company. I will sue MS myself if u come out to be true

Just look here yourself



> [FONT=verdana,geneva]This Taken From The Windows Vista Team Blog.
> 
> 
> "Today we're announcing further detail on how Windows Anytime Upgrade works.  Come 30 January, Windows Anytime Upgrade will allow customers to purchase and download a digital key to upgrade to a more feature-rich edition of Windows Vista.  The user will then complete the upgrade process by inserting the Windows Vista DVD that came with their PC or with their retail purchase of Windows Vista.  The program will be available in the US, Canada, Europe and Japan.[/FONT]
> ...


So, you were saying non-existent Upgrade edition 



> microsoft shud make dx10 come in xp, because going to vista is not worth it and they are losing their preciious money, besides its an advantage to all of us



DirectX 10 can be back ported to Windows XP but this will need rewrite of 50% of Windows XP. MS did that & released it as Windows Vista. you want to game with DX 10 upgrade to Vista with new features, else stick to XP.

I guess I should stop posting. The mods already hate me a lot...& I don't wanna get banned cos no one here is ready to listen to explanation & justification


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

you ppl don't seem to get the point, no matter what! in an ubuntu 6.06 u can upgrade the kernel to the latest one, the drivers, the nw stack, the web server etc. and run happily even today wid the rest of the system being the same and untouched. how big is this download? temme... 

ok, if that doesn't satisfy you u can update the X window system, gnome/kde, apps like office suits, multimedia apps etc. and still be running ubuntu 6.06. but apart from the os core parts mentioned in the 1st para it is cumbersome to download each package and update. hence you haf a new distro. if you don't need these updates then a simple kernel and related updates will keep ur old ubuntu running rock solid! you can still run all the latest technology apps on this kinda system. temme now...why wud u need a new distro then? so that it jus reduces updating each app thats it... since linux comes wid a plethora of apps for everyday use (office suites, media players and what not...again plz don't start that MS can't bundle apps etc. coz this point in completely unrelated to it. we are simply comparing the no. of apps that are updated)

now consider windows, can you be running win2000 and upgrade to a vista kernel? can you include support for aero? can u update iis? can u upgrade to the new bsd-borrowed networking stack of vista? can you upgrade to xp or vista like interface?

get the point now????


----------



## CadCrazy (Sep 5, 2007)

^^ No a MVP means nothing to hear against the so called Microsoft.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

@gx, you are a kid that just doesn't understand, this is the second time I'm telling you not to seperate my sentences and manipulate it to something that you like. I'm warning you not to do it again, if you want to quote me, quote an entire para or what ever I wrote, don't seperate them and act like you are the smart one.

@Infra_red_dude, forget it man, these guys just don't understand, when I'm talking about upgrade version of Windows, he's talking about adobe! What a kid! On top of that, he's posted double upgrade, more $$$ for the customer!! He is asking us to buy a retail version of Vista and then spend more money in some so called inter-package upgrade when we are talking about the upgrade from an earlier version of windows to a newer one! Does this kid even know what he is speaking about? Doesn't he understand what we write? Oh wait... how can he?


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

ok so how does all the discussion after page 4 lead to MS being doomed viz a vi the 7 points in the first post


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ok so how does all the discussion after page 4 lead to MS being doomed viz a vi the 7 points in the first post


 most of the points haf been brought in by you or GX and replying to those posts filled up 4 pages. so i must ask this Q to you.

at least my explanation above (my latest post) throws some light as to why ppl/org who run servers will not prefer windows server editions and this is where they may get hit. so tht post of mine is not offtopic.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> most of the points haf been brought in by you or GX and replying to those posts filled up 4 pages. so i must ask this Q to you.
> 
> at least my explanation above (my latest post) throws some light as to why ppl/org who run servers will not prefer windows server editions and this is where they may get hit. so tht post of mine is not offtopic.


 
And also accepting the fact that people need and already want opensource than windows and that's why desktop manufacturers are going in for those than windows.. that again is going to hit MS, but wait, they agree but disagree... check few posts back.. post 110 to be precise.


----------



## CadCrazy (Sep 5, 2007)

Windows has nothing to gain but to loose . Linux(and open source) has nothing to loose but to gain and gain and gain .........


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> most of the points haf been brought in by you or GX and replying to those posts filled up 4 pages. so i must ask this Q to you.
> 
> at least my explanation above (my latest post) throws some light as to why ppl/org who run servers will not prefer windows server editions and this is where they may get hit. so tht post of mine is not offtopic.


 ya well u can go thru the discussion for more info on who spoke on what topics ... who talked abt windows 98 having dx 10 and etc ... ird ur in all fairness wrong abt who brought up what issues .... its wrong to always blame gx if u want u can chk for urself gx has only replied quote by quote and not him who came up with reasoning of 98 having dx 10


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 5, 2007)

exactly! so aint it all related to the topic? one asking and the other answering? and i also said most and not all!


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ya well u can go thru the discussion for more info on who spoke on what topics ... who talked abt windows 98 having dx 10 and etc ... ird ur in all fairness wrong abt who brought up what issues .... its wrong to always blame gx if u want u can chk for urself gx has only replied quote by quote and not him who came up with reasoning of 98 having dx 10


 
Do you think I was joking about Win98 being able to play DX10 games? Do you seriously think I would say something stupid that is not true? Maybe you haven't heard about the 'Alky Projects'. How can you guys turn out to be kiddos like this, I though you knew what you were speaking about till now!
Anyways, my whole point about bringing up that topic was to imply the *'non-existent' upgrade versions of windows*, please don't keep nagging about it, which shows that you haven't understood what it implied or what I was writing till now! So, when ever you repeat that sentence again, I'll just consider it as a failure of understanding or ignorance rather because of the plain fact that you don't seem to understand what that implied.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

oooooo...I so wanna kick HiH arse for his lame claim of Non-Existant Vista upgrades 

Must resist kicking the arse of ignorant fanboys


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

ya no upgrade options and 98 should support dx 10 ... hell why only dx 10 t shud also support dx 10.1 ... aint i right HiH


----------



## chesss (Sep 5, 2007)

oh sleepy mods how abt waking and closing this lame thread?


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> oooooo...I so wanna kick HiH arse for his lame claim of Non-Existant Vista upgrades
> 
> Must resist kicking the arse of ignorant fanboys


 
you were lame enough in showing an *inter-package upgrade*, not an *inter-OS upgrade* that I was talking about.. maybe you need to kick yourself.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> ya no upgrade options and 98 should support dx 10 ... hell why only dx 10 t shud also support dx 10.1 ... aint i right HiH


 
Are you even reading what I'm writing? did you even try doing a google on Alky Project? Don't be lame enough in trying to push your assumptions into peoples brains. 

And please don't get me started on the emergence of Dx10.1 and me needing to get a new card even before 3 months since I got it for it to work at the best!!


----------



## iMav (Sep 5, 2007)

well i was thinking HiH why is dx 10 only to vista it shud also be ported back to win 3.1 also ...

ya ur right y did ms make us upgrade to even win 95 ...  ... damn dx 10 and vista dx 10 should work on win 95 and win 3.1  ... bill gates are u listening  ... ppl want dx 10 on 98  i say y only 98 it shud be on 3.1 also


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 5, 2007)

> Are you even reading what I'm writing? did you even try doing a google on Alky Project?



Plz read the conversation between me & IRD on the previous page about this Porject first.



> And please don't get me started on the emergence of Dx10.1 and me needing to get a new card even before 3 months since I got it for it to work at the best



Where did u got the info that DirectX 10.1 needs a new graphics card?


----------



## shantanu (Sep 5, 2007)

chesss said:
			
		

> oh sleepy mods how abt waking and closing this lame thread?


 
really dude ? ever read the whole thread and ma warnings.. 

these guys are hardcore flamers.. and they wont listen.. after all i cant ban all of them.. and this thread.. close.. i wont atleast i wont.. if any other mod wants he can ..


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Where did u got the info that DirectX 10.1 needs a new graphics card?


 
It requires a new graphics card to run at it's full potential, it is only *"compatible"* with existing DX10 cards, are you sleeping man?
*www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6824&Itemid=2



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> prakash im still awaitng an answer to my question on who is a monopoly


 
Maybe a lot of history lessons are needed here 

*news.com.com/2100-1040-232565.html
*money.cnn.com/1999/11/05/technology/microsoft_finding/

Anyways, it's quite Microsoftian to forget the past.. nothing to worry..
.
.


----------



## iMav (Sep 6, 2007)

ya ur right ms ms is still a monopoly else they shud back port dx 10.1 to win 3.1


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 6, 2007)

ALl they are trying to say iMav is that by making DX10 exclusive to vista M$ people are forcing people to upgrade from XP to VISTA.If it was not for DX10 vista would not have sold 10% of what it is selling now.Thats why they made it vista exclusive.

BTW the thread is going great with all the good views and still better counter-views.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 6, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> ALl they are trying to say iMav is that by making DX10 exclusive to vista M$ people are forcing people to upgrade from XP to VISTA.If it was not for DX10 vista would not have sold 10% of what it is selling now.Thats why they made it vista exclusive.
> 
> BTW the thread is going great with all the good views and still better counter-views.


 
No man, he's not going to understand that point ever, keeps nagging onto that single liner with nothing better to say and keeps flaming..


----------



## iMav (Sep 6, 2007)

devil ... listen to ur advocate .... it was not possible to back port dx 10 to xp and have optimumb performance coz it would mean re-wrting a lot of xp code and in a sense u can consider vista to be that re-writing of major part of xp code


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 6, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> ALl they are trying to say iMav is that by making DX10 exclusive to vista M$ people are forcing people to upgrade from XP to VISTA.If it was not for DX10 vista would not have sold 10% of what it is selling now.Thats why they made it vista exclusive.



Do you have a problem in understanding technical aspects of OS? Do u know how an OS works & why can't DX 10 be back ported to XP?

Enough of explaining, no matter how much I try to teach something, idiots can't listen & read the explanation at last page.



> It requires a new graphics card to run at it's full potential, it is only *"compatible"* with existing DX10 cards,



R U a DirectX developer? no seriously if u r have a look at the SDK & what will DX 10.1 bring to table.* 99.9999999999% Features of DX 10.1 are same with DX 10.* The only change is in efficiency & how work is done. *There is no quality difference between DX 10 & DX 10.1, its only how the code is executed bringing more efficiency*


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 6, 2007)

OMG iMav wont let me become a pope..lols

Ok you are saying that M$ developed DX10 then they realized that DX10 can't be implemented in XP so they made windows VISTA.And since nobody would have purchased just XP+DX10 support so they also added some eyecandy.Is this what are you trying to say?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Do you have a problem in understanding technical aspects of OS? Do u know how an OS works & why can't DX 10 be back ported to XP?



Seriously I am finding it hard to understand why can't Dx10 be implemented in XP inspite of having good knowledge of how a OS work.

And please man don't call me an idiot only because I don't support you views.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 6, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Seriously I am finding it hard to understand why can't Dx10 be implemented in XP inspite of having good knowledge of how a OS work.


I can't explain anything to u, I give up, is it very hard to read the last page where I mentioned why DX 10 cannot be ported to XP.

No matter how much I try to polish a turd, it will remain a turd.

Hindi main - bhains ke aage jitni bhi been bajao....woh bhains hi rahta hai

"Woops, not supposed to say here"


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Do you have a problem in understanding technical aspects of OS? Do u know how an OS works & why can't DX 10 be back ported to XP?
> 
> Enough of explaining, no matter how much I try to teach something, *idiots *can't listen & read the explanation at last page.


 
This is the problem, considering yourself as a genius and everyone else idiots.. when will you learn gx?

Enough of your so called genius explanation! Read this:


> Many gamers have been upset that the latest version of Microsoft's DirectX software and drivers, DirectX10, requires Windows Vista in order to run. Microsoft has argued that because DirectX10 was such a massive redesign of the overall driver model, it was not possible to retrofit it to run on Windows XP. One of the arguments supporting this was the fact that DirectX10 required graphics memory to be virtualizable—that is, swappable for system RAM if the on-board video card RAM became full.
> 
> However, NVIDIA has had difficulty making virtualization work on their Vista graphics drivers, so Microsoft has now made GPU virtualization optional for DX10. Charlie Demerjian over at the Inquirer is arguing that this means there is no valid technical reason why DirectX10 couldn't be back-ported to Windows XP.
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm.. I'm sure you'll have another one of your twisted explanations for this.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> R U a DirectX developer? no seriously if u r have a look at the SDK & what will DX 10.1 bring to table.* 99.9999999999% Features of DX 10.1 are same with DX 10.* The only change is in efficiency & how work is done. *There is no quality difference between DX 10 & DX 10.1, its only how the code is executed bringing more efficiency*


 
Then why upgrade to 10.1??? Then why even 10.1 let alone upgrade??

See, you're digging your own grave by proving what we have been saying all along!! forced upgrades from MS has been and will be useless!! When will you learn kiddo?

Face it, you are just ProMS and can't digest the growth of Open Source software and will defend MS with everything... hmm.. I wonder why.. 
.
.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 6, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> OMG iMav wont let me become a pope..lols
> 
> Ok you are saying that M$ developed DX10 then they realized that DX10 can't be implemented in XP so they made windows VISTA.And since nobody would have purchased just XP+DX10 support so they also added some eyecandy.Is this what are you trying to say?


in a way yes!  coz to the common man, this is all that matters!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Plz read the conversation between me & IRD on the previous page about this Porject first.


yep, its not that MS can't backport dx10 to XP; its that they DON'T want to! and since MS is out there to do business, i don't think anything is wrong with that. from a business point of view, i support this. from a customer's point of view i don't.

but then thats one of the reasons why MS may lost out. ppl will not like to use forced software. they will look for alternatives when forced (i'm NOT talking about DX and games here as everyone knows this is where MS rules the roost!)


----------



## iMav (Sep 6, 2007)

HiH be prepared for a good know how on how dx actually works


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 6, 2007)

DX 10.1 is a free software upgrade with Vista SP1. Where do u see Microsoft forcing it?

DX 10.1 is there cos it brings more efficiency. U do know about how softwares works. don't u?


----------



## shantanu (Sep 6, 2007)

thread will remain open till any other mods or admins closes it.. and Please dont pm me regarding this thread.. because members think i was biased with my decision..


----------



## praka123 (Sep 6, 2007)

nice!let the thread be open.just have a closed eye on this thread and any other M$ related thread too.the "other" side cant tolerate and feel biased.


reg DX10.1,do u pro-ms ppl justify that it is a gr8 update 
now how nvidia&amd will come with 8800++ edition for the gfx cards and again upgradation and all are justified under the name of M$.
^now this is wht they can do as a monopoly


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 6, 2007)

thanks for reopening the thread, shan 

guys, plz no flaming... let everyone show respect for every other member and let there be a healthy discussion


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 6, 2007)

> reg DX10.1,do u pro-ms ppl justify that it is a gr8 update



Yup, it bring more efficiency to the code resulting in more work to be done with less clock cycles of the GPU & RAM usage. This will result in significant boost in battery lifes of laptops cos now with DX 10 u can render a comples scene with less overhead.



> now how nvidia&amd will come with 8800++ edition for the gfx cards and again upgradation and all are justified under the name of M$.


Lolz...why r u blaming MS if nVidia & AMD are coming up with new power efficient graphics cards?

*I repeat, DirectX 10.1 doesn't necessarily needs a new graphics card. It is just a software update like monthly updates to DirectX 9, you can continue to run all the games & features of DX 10.1 on your current DX 10 graphics card.*

Uncle...plz fix your spacebar key running in Linux , I know its not compatible but atleast look for or make your own drivers


----------



## praka123 (Sep 6, 2007)

^
 Junior,My kbd is working fine.seems ur vista ulti-mate is not fairing well with beta drivers.
 
reg DirectX and other technologies as recent as ooxml against ODF format are all what Microsoft wants users to be locked without choices.
my point is very well pointed out in below post(for new users


> Microsoft has been scanning the horizon to ensure that no one begins to kick at the blocks that prop up their monopoly. They are constantly looking for new ways to create more blocks. Some of these blocks are directx, drm, application/windows APIs, network interoperability (or the lack thereof), WGA/WGN lie, FUD, patents. Writing for OpenGL means you are writing for multiple platforms which gives a greater overall share.
> 
> Another new block is DRM. Yes they have had DRM in their product in one fashion or another for decades--copy protection on software back in the 80s, activation keys in the 90s. The WGN/WGA lie in the 00's is a psychological game meant to make the consumer less in control but to give them a feeling they are being protected. They are essentially forcing the consumer to allow Microsoft to spy on them under the guise of protecting the consumer from organized pirating--this is the fundamental lie. The average consumer is already covered because they generally purchase from the likes of Dell, Gateway, etc. Only a small percentage of sales are from systems integrators and the odds of getting one that is dishonest is even more minuscule. Today it is the essential arm-twisting/drafting of the hardware manufacturers to comply with their draconian DRM/CRM procedures.
> 
> ...


*linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=230391&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=18696149

^^^ this is nothing to anger M$ locked ppl.just a splash of water on the face.that's all.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 6, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> ^
> Junior,My kbd is working fine.seems ur vista ulti-mate is not fairing well with beta drivers.



Nah,,all drivers I m using are final



> DirectX and other technologies as recent as ooxml against ODF format are all what Microsoft wants users to be locked without choices.



Ok tell me something clearly now, What do u mean by limiting choices?

Is MS stopping developers from making & running OpenGL games for Windows? 

Is MS stopping users from running OSS application like Firefox on Windows?

Is MS forcing users to upgrade hardware? If they don't wanna upgrade, then don't. Its not like u don't upgrade hardware to run Linux.

Game developers prefer making games for Windows because it is easier to make games for Windows in DirectX compared to OpenGL & doesn't need any developer side optimisation.

Why shouldn't MS develop DirectX 10.1? Is it wrong to further develop technology, provide new features.?

If OOXML is not an ISO standard then who is at a loss here? Microsoft or OSS? MS Office is the de-facto standard for office out there. People won't bother downloading & saving in ODF cos they don't know whether ODF file is supported at the computer of the guy they are mailing it to. But they know that .Doc is supported there too....so why would they save in ODF? 98% office users out there won't save in ODF cos well...they don't know whether ODF will open somewhere else or not. They will continue to use & save in MS Office format.

Now, if OOXML is not an open standard then who is at loss here? Its OpenOffice.org & other such products. If OOXML becomes an ISO standard that means its an open standard which anyone product can incorporate in it, even OpenOffice can natively support OOXML if it is a open standard by ISO. But since it is not, they can't support it properly.

What does this means? People will continue to use & save in MS office format cos that is the most widely used format out there, while Linux etc will fail to be compatible with this format resulting it people shifting away from OpenOffice etc.

iMav, I m leaving this thread. There is no point discussing & telling them anything because they don't know how to do a group discussion logically. If they think they are right then even if they are not, they can't change there mindset.


----------



## nirjhar (Jun 1, 2009)

it is not so easy.I think you are wrong ,still Xp is most populer than other.
Vista is not.Now Microsoft is coming with new friendly feathers.you just wait and see.


----------



## Liverpool_fan (Jun 1, 2009)

^ ^ ^
Nice BUMP!!!


----------



## abhijangda (Jun 2, 2009)

East or West Linux is the best. By Linux i mean Fedora, i m also an anti-microsoft. I also think that they will fall as most of the public organisations has started using linux instead of windows.


----------



## thewisecrab (Jun 2, 2009)

abhijangda said:


> East or West Linux is the best. By Linux i mean Fedora, i m also an anti-microsoft. I also think that they will fall as most of the public organisations has started using linux instead of windows.


Its a 2 year old Thread


----------

