# Next Gen Console discussion ( PS4 'n Xbox One'n Wii U )



## Sarath (Feb 23, 2012)

Next Generation Console Discussion​
There are too many threads with the same topic. I am hence merging all of them. DO NOT create any more threads for discussion about the next generation of consoles, lovingly known as PS4 and Xbox720 (although the latter is more of a guess)

I am hereby merging *vickybat* and *comp@ddict*'s threads and also *CommanderShawnzer*'s post which was to deal with Xbox only but didn't see much activity. I am adding it here as a tribute to his and everyone's effort in creating the OP.




vickybat said:


> This is an interesting piece of information guys. The ps4 is all set to feature desktop class hardware and everything from cpu to gpu is going to be amd.
> 
> The cpu is going to be an A8 3850 quadcore with a radeon 6550 integrated. Not only this, ps4 will also get a discrete gpu i.e a radeon 7670 with 1gb dedicated vram.
> 
> ...





comp@ddict said:


> There are threads now and then, and the frequency is only going to increase. So I thought of making one common thread where people can offload their fantasies regarding next generation consoles (including me) and discuss about the realities and actual possible specs and release dates.
> 
> Here's what I got latest on specifications:
> 
> ...




*Xbox Details: *


Spoiler






CommanderShawnzer said:


> ok,* this is a thread to discuss xbox 720*(or whatever its gonna be called)
> *no ps3 fanboys* if you're looking for PS4 news make your own thread or request sarath,gameranad or vickibat(these dudes own ps3's) to make a thread for ps4
> *www.gamesthirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/xbox-720-logo.jpg
> so there are two rumored versions of this console only one is true
> ...






//MOD edit:
Any more threads dealing with next generation of consoles will be deleted. Kindly use this thread for such discussion.


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## vickybat (Apr 7, 2012)

*PS4 and Xbox 720 Graphics Specs leaked*

This is an interesting piece of information guys. The ps4 is all set to feature desktop class hardware and everything from cpu to gpu is going to be amd.

The cpu is going to be an A8 3850 quadcore with a radeon 6550 integrated. Not only this, ps4 will also get a discrete gpu i.e a radeon 7670 with 1gb dedicated vram.

Insider says that under heavy graphics load, the 6550d and 7670 will get internally crossfired. The xbox 720 on the other hand gets a radeon 6670 ( which is similar to a 7670) but lacks the 6550 igp that ps4 has.

This might give the ps4 an edge over 720. These components might seem entry level to lower mid-end if spoken in context of pc hardware. But consoles will have far lower abstraction than pc, custom api's and a game developed for a specific set of hardware unlike pc. 

Lets see where all this goes up. Given a bit more time, amd might fit its trinity apu's in ps4 but the current specs are really very good. 

*Source*

The link is fixed now.


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## d3p (Apr 7, 2012)

*Re: PS4 and Xbox 720 Graphics Specs leaked*

^ One of my friend is currently working with X-Box New Gen Console. The Project is supported by Toshiba.

TBH, it will support USB 3.0, a PCIe 3.0 slot with a uATX mobo. User can expand the HDD depending upon his wish & hook up any future Gen Card. Just like Desktops.


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## Joker (Apr 7, 2012)

*Re: PS4 and Xbox 720 Graphics Specs leaked*

all 3 consoles using amd gpu....huge source of income which nvidia has missed out.

doesnt matter which console wins the console war...amd has won it for sure if this is to be believed.

this also means developers working on multiple platforms will be working with amd as it is powering the hardware on all 3 consoles. death of gimmicks like physx.


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## ico (Apr 7, 2012)

*Re: PS4 and Xbox 720 Graphics Specs leaked*

I'll be buying a Wii U.

"death" brought the lulz.


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## comp@ddict (Apr 8, 2012)

*XBox 720 and PS4 Rumours/Speculation Thread*

There are threads now and then, and the frequency is only going to increase. So I thought of making one common thread where people can offload their fantasies regarding next generation consoles (including me) and discuss about the realities and actual possible specs and release dates.

Here's what I got latest on specifications:

*PS4:*
- AMD A8-3850 quad core 2.9GHz CPU
- AMD HD6670/7670 GPU in CFx with APU
- 1GB Memory

ConsoleWatch: PlayStation 4 "Orbis" CPU Specs Leak, But Likely Reflect Early Hardware - HotHardware

Report – IGN sources detail, confirm Sony’s rumored PS4 specs | VG247


*XBox 720:*
- 16 Core IBM PowerPC based CPU
- AMD HD6670 GPU

Xbox 720 Devkit Specs Detailed, Includes 16-Core Processor | SilleGamer

Go!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To start with, I'm HUGELY disappointed at the GPU. And apparently MS is also working on an Xbox Lite based on ARM cores for a 100$ price point. What? Now we need a new console for angry birds on TV?

Microsoft Working on ARM-Based Xbox "Lite" Platform - Rumour - X-bit labs


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## thetechfreak (Apr 8, 2012)

*Re: XBox 720 and PS4 Rumours/Speculation Thread*

PS4 is supposed to arrive before xbox. 

Link


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## JojoTheDragon (Apr 8, 2012)

*Re: XBox 720 and PS4 Rumours/Speculation Thread*

My fingers are crossed for backward compatibility.


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## desiJATT (Apr 8, 2012)

*Re: XBox 720 and PS4 Rumours/Speculation Thread*

^^ Don't worry about backward compatibility as Sony has never disappointed gamers regarding this. PS2 had PS1 games compatibility, PS3 has PS2 games compatibility, and hopefully, PS4 will support PS3 games too. 

But one thing always comes in my mind. How do these consoles render games at 1080p with such a low end graphics card whereas we PC gamers have to shell out 20-25K for just the GPU to get great framerates at high settings. Moreover, i saw the Comparison video of BF3 on console and PC, there was no difference at all! How is this possible? Enlighten me on this one.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 8, 2012)

sheesh,you guys are talking like pc gamers...........xx console _may _have better graphics than pp console
if you've played a console game on two platforms there is'nt any kind of graphical superiority on either
only games which exploit the power of consoles are thier respective exclusives



desiJATT said:


> ^^ Don't worry about backward compatibility as Sony has never disappointed gamers regarding this. PS2 had PS1 games compatibility, 1.*PS3 has PS2 games compatibility*, and hopefully, PS4 will support PS3 games too.
> 
> But one thing always comes in my mind. 2.*How do these consoles render games at 1080p with such a low end graphics card whereas we PC gamers have to shell out 20-25K for just the GPU to get great framerates at high settings*.
> 3.*Moreover, i saw the Comparison video of BF3 on console and PC, there was no difference at all! How is this possible? Enlighten me on this one.*



1.the ps3 slim does not have backward compatibility with ps2 games.ps2 compatibility was limited to Phat ps3 models

2.thats because most games are built ground-up for consoles
thier pc versions are just ports

3.Bf3 on ultra high on a gtx 580 is heavenly(played on a friends pc)well,the console versions are.........earthly
i.e on mid graphics settings most pc games resemble thier console counterparts



@sarath :dude,make this thread sticky


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## Sarath (Apr 8, 2012)

thread stuck


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## dashing.sujay (Apr 12, 2012)

*Re: XBox 720 and PS4 Rumours/Speculation Thread*



desiJATT said:


> But one thing always comes in my mind. How do these consoles render games at 1080p with such a low end graphics card whereas we PC gamers have to shell out 20-25K for just the GPU to get great framerates at high settings. Moreover, i saw the Comparison video of BF3 on console and PC, there was no difference at all! How is this possible? Enlighten me on this one.



May be because of the fact that developers don't need to support plethora of hardware in case of PC games, thereby much needed hardware optimization for consoles becomes much easier. Eventually, they excel even at such "low" configs.

//Copied to this thread


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## vickybat (Apr 13, 2012)

*Rumor: Xbox 720 to Have 'Ridiculously Powerful' 16-Core CPU*

It seems microsoft seems to be sticking with ibm's powerpc architecture processors for its next gen console while sony seems to have jumped into conventional x86 designs.

The 16 core cpu for next xbox does appear ridiculous now but might be worthwhile in the long run considering the overall long lifecycle of a console. It seems xbox 720 will also get radeon 7xxx series treatment for its gpu.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 13, 2012)

vickybat said:


> *Rumor: Xbox 720 to Have 'Ridiculously Powerful' 16-Core CPU*
> 
> It seems microsoft seems to be sticking with ibm's powerpc architecture processors for its next gen console while sony seems to have jumped into conventional x86 designs.
> 
> The 16 core cpu for next xbox does appear ridiculous now but might be worthwhile in the long run considering the overall long lifecycle of a console. It seems xbox 720 will also get radeon 7xxx series treatment for its gpu.


 
16 cores  WTF??
anyways Amen to the good news


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## gameranand (Apr 17, 2012)

If the hardware is very powerful then please do think about the prices of these consoles.


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## Sarath (Apr 17, 2012)

gameranand said:


> If the hardware is very powerful then please do think about the prices of these consoles.



I don't think MS would do the same mistake Sony did (pushing my console purchase by a good 3 years north)


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## gameranand (Apr 18, 2012)

But if hardware would be next gen. Then expect the price to be next gen also means high as I don't think they want losses in hardware.


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## Sarath (Apr 18, 2012)

Consoles usually always sell for a loss initially. With Vita selling at 20k here the next console might easily be above 30k or heck even 40


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## thetechfreak (Apr 18, 2012)

30k seems a possibility as it has happened in future but 40k I donot think will happen.
Found a article on Tech radar that says PS 4 wont be out till Christmas 2013!


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## Skyh3ck (Apr 18, 2012)

so it means PS4 will be able to play PC games, and we may also see windows or linux installed on it...


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## Sarath (Apr 18, 2012)

PS3 released for 699$. God knows how much it was priced in India then? Scary.

@superhart: what?


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## Skyh3ck (Apr 19, 2012)

When new product lanches the initial price is always high


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## CommanderShawnzer (May 8, 2012)

xbox 720 Dev kits bieng manufactured?


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## vickybat (May 10, 2012)

*Nintendo's Wii U Launch Titles Potentially Leaked*

Really impressive lineup especially the inclusion of tekken


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## tkin (May 10, 2012)

SuperH3art said:


> so it means PS4 will be able to play PC games, and we may also see windows or linux installed on it...


Sony will LOCK it, not initially, but at certain point, like they did now.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> 16 cores  WTF??
> anyways Amen to the good news


PS3 has 8 core CPU, X360's 16 core processor(power PC) is different from PC processors.



vickybat said:


> *Nintendo's Wii U Launch Titles Potentially Leaked*
> 
> Really impressive lineup especially the inclusion of tekken


False rumor, Darksiders II will not see Wii-U ever, neither will Batman, its a UE game.


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## vickybat (May 10, 2012)

tkin said:


> False rumor, Darksiders II will not see Wii-U ever, *neither will Batman, its a UE game.*



I don't think so buddy. Check the below spoiler and link:



Spoiler



The game was released by Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Microsoft Windows. The game was officially announced during the 2009 Spike Video Game Awards and was released worldwide for consoles, beginning in North America on October 18, 2011, with the Microsoft Windows version following on November 22, 2011. A Game of the Year edition is scheduled for release on May 29, 2012 in North America and Canada on September 7, 2012 for the rest of the world. *A Wii U version is set to be released in 2012.* A spin-off iOS game, Batman: Arkham City Lockdown, was developed by NetherRealm Studios and released on December 7, 2011.


*
Source*

Rumor seems legit as same is the case with *darksiders 2*


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## tkin (May 10, 2012)

vickybat said:


> I don't think so buddy. Check the below spoiler and link:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wii-U's screen is small, s the hardware may pull it off, but porting for a third platform? Wonder if the details will be same.


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## Sujeet (May 30, 2012)

*Re: PS4 and Xbox 720 Graphics Specs leaked*

Unreal Engine 4 +NividaGrid Cloud Services Will Shape the future of Next Gen Consoles sans Nintendo and Will Strengthen Microsoft's Next Gen Gaming Platform.

BTW MS is integrating the Skype into next iteration of Xbox Console RANGE.

And those who are pondering over official support of Current Gen Consoles..atleast for MS Xbox it should extend to 2015 because the Xbox 320 was release with a Projected Lifecycyle of 10 yrs which will end by 2015.


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## thetechfreak (Jun 12, 2012)

Report: PlayStation 4 Rumored to Use AMD Fusion CPU/GPU



> Given the transitional state of console gaming, the success of the Xbox 360/Kinect, and Nintendo's experiments with a new controller type, Sony will need something big for the PS4.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice


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## lord1954man (Jun 29, 2012)

PS4 release date, news and rumours
UPDATED Is the Sony PlayStation 4 destined for a Christmas 2013 release date?
By James Rivington  June 28thCOMMENTS

PS4 rumours are slowly gathering pace
Related stories
PS4 specs 'revealed' to be off-the-shelf PC components
Xbox 720 to be a 16-core powerhouse?
Sony PS4 to come without Cell processor?
Sony is yet to confirm the existence of the PS4 games console, but it exists out there somewhere - you can be absolutely sure of that.
There have been rumours doing the rounds suggesting that Sony is calling the PS4 'Orbis'. This comes from a source speaking to Kotaku "who is not authorised to talk publicly about next-gen hardware but has shared correct information" with them before.
Assuming the Orbis name is accurate, it's still unclear whether the name is a codename like Durango or whether the console will literally be called the Sony PlayStation Orbis instead of the Sony PS4.
The name does make some kind of sense if you combine it with the word 'Vitae' (or Vita). Orbis Vitae translates from Latin as 'circle of life' and hints at some serious synergy between the PS4 and the PS Vita.
It could be a red herring, of course, but with the Vita already communicating fairly competently with the PS3, it seems highly likely that this will be the case. So what can we expect from the PlayStation 4?
No announcement yet

As the Sony press conference began at E3 2012, people were eagerly waiting to see if the rumors might be true. Will there be an official PlayStation 4 announcement?
But not only was there no PS4 announcement, but there was'nt even a mention, not even a hint. Nothing.
After E3 though, the chief executive of SCE told MCV that Sony would not be revealing its next console until it is satisfied that the PS4 will show a "significant leap" in technology.
"The right time to talk about new advances in hardware is when you can demonstrate a significant leap on the current experience, and something that is going to be attractive. Beyond that we have nothing to say at this point," he said.
PS4 likely to pack AMD CPU and graphics power

The same source who revealed the PlayStation Orbis name to Kotaku also mentioned that the PS4 is currently penciled in as packing an AMD x64 CPU and 28nm AMD Southern Islands graphics power.
The source doesn't go into any detail about what revision of AMD CPU hardware it's going to be using, but it could be the forthcoming Piledriver revision of the weak Bulldozer architecture from the AMD FX-8150 CPU.
Next-gen gaming

Nintendo Wii U release date, news and rumours
Piledriver is also going to be used in the upcoming Trinity APU, which incorporate both CPU and GPU components on die, but the first iterations of that particular chip possibly wont come with the 28nm GPU part. Subsequent APUs are scheduled to include Southern Island components, so that is still a possibility.
Meanwhile, IGN reports that the PS4 will be powered specifically by the AMD Radeon HD 7670 chip and the A8-3850 APU.
If that's true, it really is a big surprise. Those chips aren't even the best that AMD currently has to offer - so by the time the PS4 goes on sale it would be woefully lacking in power compared to the latest AMD tech, let alone the most advanced chips from Nvidia and Intel.
By 2014, Intel will be shipping 14nm - or possibly even 11nm - CPUs and with that amount of transistors on a die, we're talking serious performance and efficiency gains.
Next-gen gaming

Xbox 720 release date, news and rumours
So it's for this reason that we suspect - or hope - that early PS4 development kits may currently be using these AMD chips, but the final PS4 will most likely pack something a little more special. If that's not the case, it's time for hardcore gamers to start worrying.
According to the source of these rumours, Sony is attempting to get 4K gaming out the door with the PS4, along with full HD 1080p 3D gaming for the first time. We don't think it would even be possible to achieve this kind of output with the Southern Islands GPUs unless some kind of multi-GPU set-up is being used.
The Playstation 4 would also need to have some serious graphics memory inside it to cope with outputting to such high-resolution screens as 4K.
So we fully expect the launch specifications to be far more impressive.
There were actually some previous rumours that PS4 could use Nvidia's ARM-based Project Denver but this now seems quite unlikely.
It's far more probable that AMD is offering Sony and Microsoft (which is rumoured to also be using this AMD hardware in its XBox 720) heavily subsidised access to its CPU and GPU tech. AMD is currently being beaten by both Intel and Nvidia in the CPU and GPU markets, and so we reckon AMD needs these consoles almost as much as Sony and Microsoft do.
Backwards compatibility

When the original original PS3 unit shipped, it contained a chip that gave it the ability to play PS2 games. Subsequent iterations of hardware omitted this chip and so the backwards compatibility was condemned to death.
Current rumours suggests that the PS4 will completely ignore the possibility of backwards compatibility and focus firmly on the next generation. So if you want to continue playing your PS3 games, keep hold of your PS3s, kids.
Second hand games on the way out?

More rumours suggest that Sony is going in the same direction as Microsoft in that it wants to kill off the second hand games market. Current industry wisdom suggests that future PS4 games might be tied to your Sony Entertainment Network account and will thus then have no resale value. That's a similar approach as used by PC developers using Steam so we reckon this is a likely development. Doesn't mean we're happy about it, though.
What are the PS4 features we'd most like to see?

PS4info dreams of a next-gen PlayStation with a 32nm Cell processor an up to 16 SPEs, double the number in the PlayStation 3. While over on gamrConnect, there's talk of a greater partnership with Google. Sony's new fondness for Android on the Xperia Play is an interesting strategy.
Blu-ray on the PlayStation 4 is a dead cert. While digital distribution is undoubtedly the way forward, not every PlayStation owner has access to a fast broadband connection.
As Kaz Hirai told Develop, "we do business in parts of the world where network infrastructure isn't as robust as one would hope. There's always going to be requirement for a business of our size and scope to have a physical medium."
As for the PlayStation 4 controller, Dr. Richard Marks (Sony Computer Entertainment's US R&D manager of special projects) says that "anything that lets us get the player's intent into the system more" is technology they'll be looking at. No brain wave gaming just yet.


You can check out our wishlist PS4 video, to see what we are seeking in the next-gen console below:

PS4 release date

Latest rumours suggest that the PS4 will launch in time for Christmas 2013, though Sony are remaining quiet on the issue.
VG247 is quoting an anonymous source (always a bad start to a rumour) as saying that Sony believes it is in a position to get the PS4 out of the door before the launch of Microsoft's Xbox 720.
We remember, of course, how Microsoft managed to launch the 360 a full year before the PS3 went on sale and that enabled it to gain a huge headstart, despite all sorts of technical faults and expensive repair bills.
So it's a no-brainer that Sony will be looking to make sure that doesn't happen this time. How it can be so sure of beating Microsoft to the punch is another matter though, and as usual we'd take these anonymous comments with a glass of salty water.
Meanwhile, if you side with the likes of ITProPortal, you might believe that "the whole concept of a single lounge-bound gaming device may become obsolete". The future of gaming may well lie in a more portable device/controller that you can play on the move or plug into your TV. Epic's Mark Rein has some interesting thoughts on this here.
Senior execs for a big US retailer told their shareholders that they don't expect the Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 til 2014. That seems like a good guess to us, even though Sony has always said the PS3 will have a 10-year life cycle (which began in 2006).
Bethesda's Todd Howard, game director for the blockbuster Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, also says that gamers should not expect follow-ups to the PS3 and Xbox 360 until 2014, at the very earliest.
Speaking to PSM3 magazine, the Bethesda exec said that gamers were happy with the current generation of console tech and that he didn't expect to see an Xbox 720 or a PS4 before 2014.


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## vickybat (Jul 31, 2012)

Xbox 720 is now rumoured to sport an 8 core processor with an nvidia gpu and not amd.

A dev kit has been leaked which gave this info. Check the link below to know more:

*Xbox 720 Durango Dev Kit Appears Online for Sale*


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## surajramnani2k8 (Aug 14, 2012)

any ideas how much approx can we expect this to cost..i guess ill start saving from now itself lol


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## tkin (Aug 14, 2012)

It won't cost much I hear, it may go for a subsidized/contract price.


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## ujjwal007 (Aug 23, 2012)

i guess it should be under 30k  actually i wish i cant afford more then that


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## vickybat (Aug 25, 2012)

Ps4 to support 4k resolution ( 4 times of 1080p) 

*Source*


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## tkin (Aug 25, 2012)

^^ The hardware should be good, anything short of GTX680 level would not do so good under 4k, not to mention a 4/8 core CPU, but then again if they render at 1080p and upscale to 4k then its another story.


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## manojbhagat (Sep 4, 2012)

By the way,when are these 2 monsters getting launched? And what would be the expected price of these consoles and the game CD's in the Indian market?


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## vickybat (Sep 5, 2012)

^^ Its too early to tell now. Those two giants haven't provided a slightest indication of a possible launch date.


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## manojbhagat (Sep 5, 2012)

vickybat said:


> Those two giants haven't provided a slightest indication of a possible launch date.


Hmmm,please update this thread as soon as you find out


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## DeadFire87 (Sep 7, 2012)

Well I personally believe. 

PS4 
Option 1: 8/12/16 core CPU(Possibly AMD FX or AMD Server lineup CPU) + AMD Kaveri APU + Modified AMD 7970M GPU (rumored at 1.840 Tflops) Roughly equating to about 3+ Tflops.

Option 2: 4 core AMD Kaveri(CPU + AMD 7750) + Modifed AMD 7970M GPU(with 1.840 Tflops). Altogether that would equal about 2.659 Tflops

XB3
Option 1: 16 core Power8 CPU + AMD Trinity's GPU(6670) + Modified AMD 6990 based GPU. 

Option 2: 4 core Power7+ CPU (with 4 threads per core having 16 threads. Rumors can be smeared you know.) + AMD Trinity's GPU + Modified AMD 6990 based GPU this equates to about 2.369 + say .200 Tflops for CPU although number is a tad bit smaller than PS4's with 2.569 Tflops which also matches the rumors. 

Now why do I say AMD Kaveri/AMD Trinity? Well many rumors point directly to their embedded GPUs being in the systems. So that is what I am thinking that. 

Another thing to note is the details of the GHZ editions of the new AMD 7870 and AMD 7970. I believe firmly that they have same specs as PS4/XB3's combined GPU's power. Not the same level with Tflops, but the same GP/GT/bandwidth or really close to it. Given that I will give you the GP/GT data. 7870 Ghz Edition has 32 GP/80 GT while 7970 Ghz Edition has 33.6 GP/134.4 GT. If you take the GP rate of PS3/X360(4.4) and multiply it by 7. You can see that both of them are at least 7 times more powerful than PS3/X360 GPUs. That is the GPU power alone. Throw in the CPU power and we can easily see claims of 8+ times the power of current gen. As they use math to show how powerful it is based solely on Tflops. Most CPUs have .1-.3 Tflops of power these days depending. Considering the 6670 and 7670 GP/GT rate thrown in there as well it gets a bigger bump up with PS4 having 46.4 GP/160 GT. While XB 3 has 38.4 GP/99.2 GT. Although its hard to say they will feature the same GP/GT as I have guessed here, but its likely a goal to reach that area or close to it. 

Making both systems  easily capable of handling Unreal Engine 4 at 1080p. Epic stated that 2.5 Tflops would be necessary for 1080p to be at a steady framerate. Another thing to note is that Epic stated 1.5 Tflops would be necessary for 720p to have a steady framerate. ;p Which makes me wonder. What is the WiiU packing. To know this you have to look at the AMD 4000 series. As it has been claimed a million times that it is based on an AMD R700 series GPU. Some rumors swirl around 40 nm. There is only 1 GPU at that range. The 4770. Now look at today's lineup. What can match up to  4770. AMD 7870M is spot on duplicate with improved performance. 12.8 GP/32 GT and 1024 Gflops or 1.024 Tflops. This has got me thinking. 

WiiU 
Modified Power7 quad core CPU(even if its got 3 cores its likely based on a quad core CPU) + AMD Llano's GPU + modified AMD 7870M GPU which equals out to about 1.504 Tflops + CPU power so it could be around 1.6-1.7 Tflops in the WiiU. Making it capable of this gen and next gen game engine quality, but not quite at the same level as other platforms. In turn it means WiiU can handle next gen ports of games to 720p if true. 

This in turn could be what Nintendo meant by stating that their system might not be to far behind the others by supporting Unreal Engine 4. 

This in turn makes all three systems feature HSA and dual GPUs. Which is a great plus for all. 

What do yall think about my math? It seems like an almost perfect fit to every rumor.


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## vickybat (Sep 12, 2012)

Some very interesting stuff:

*Ground-breaking Xbox 720 tech could turn rooms into 3D environments*



Spoiler






> Microsoft's R&D division is working on a landmark display technology that will project a full 3D game environment across the walls of player's bedrooms and living areas, a new patent filing shows.
> 
> A breakthrough device, known in the patent as an "environmental display", will project 360-degree game worlds across all four walls of a room using advanced projection technology.
> 
> ...







*Rumor: Xbox 360-shaped controller with built-in screen spotted at Valve*

It seems microsoft is very serious about next gen gaming and all set to take it into a whole new level. Lets see what's sony's upto.


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## theserpent (Oct 6, 2012)

Seriously a AMD HD6670/7670 GPU?
Then almost anyone with a 6850-7970 can run better right?


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## avinandan012 (Oct 8, 2012)

^ well you are forgetting the optimisation done on consoles


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## Skud (Oct 13, 2012)

A look into the innards of Wii U:-

Nintendo tears down Wii U to show off single-chip IBM/AMD CPU + GPU | ExtremeTech


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## vickybat (Nov 3, 2012)

Ps4 dev kits seems to be having an AMD A10 cpu with 8 - 16gb ram with a 256gb ssd. Nothing has been disclosed about the gpu yet.
Its gonna get revealed on next year's e3. It seems sony is looking to build  much more affordable console from day one.

Report: Sony's PS4 Orbis Dev Kit Runs on Modified AMD A10


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## noob (Nov 7, 2012)

XBOX 720 with Intel HD graphics


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## dan4u (Nov 7, 2012)

both these consoles will probably emerge by the end of 2014, I don't see the possibility of them releasing anytime earlier than that......


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## thetechfreak (Nov 16, 2012)

Give this a read Uber reviews: The grim and expensive future of consoles


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## vickybat (Dec 30, 2012)

*PlayStation 4 Could Get GPU Switching, Dynamic UI*

Seems like ps4 will sport a GCN based gpu along with an apu.


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## tkin (Dec 30, 2012)

^^ What's the logic behind that? In case of computers, beside gaming you do other low power stuff, hence the weaker GPU, what's the use with a PS4? Only thing it does is play games(and video streaming etc etc, doubt it requires a separate apu, a simple arm could do the job), all rumors.


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## vickybat (Dec 30, 2012)

^^ Maybe it could do more besides gaming. Since it comes armed with x86 hardware this time, i guess installing full blown linux distros would be a breeze.


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## tkin (Dec 30, 2012)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Maybe it could do more besides gaming. Since it comes armed with x86 hardware this time, i guess installing full blown linux distros would be a breeze.


Yeah, but Sony banned homebrews in PS3, may do the same with PS4?


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## CommanderShawnzer (Dec 30, 2012)

@vickybat : as if sony will allow that 



> Yeah, but Sony banned *homebrews* in PS3, may do the same with PS4?


homebrew and the linux OS that were released for the ps3 are different things


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## vickybat (Dec 31, 2012)

tkin said:


> Yeah, but Sony banned homebrews in PS3, may do the same with PS4?



They did in the slim iteration. That FAT model had options. Cell architecture was completely different so there were restrictions imposed except for some very few distros.
This time, things can be different if pushed in the right direction. Imagine next gen consoles able to do general purpose computing. Truly next gen in every sense. 



CommanderShawnzer said:


> @vickybat : as if sony will allow that



Why not? I don't see any strong reasons why they won't. They took a small step with ps3 back then and however small it was, opened great new possibilities.
This might be a big step. They must have added gpu switching to save power and heat when intensive apps and games take a backseat.


----------



## ico (Dec 31, 2012)

Wii U will be the second console I'll buy. First one was a NES clone. Still going strong after 13 years.

nintendo4eva.


----------



## vickybat (Dec 31, 2012)

^^ 8 bit or 16 bit?? I too still have my NES clone (media littlemaster). 

Btw here's some interesting info for wii-u lovers:

*www.cheatcc.com/extra/thewiiuslaunchlineupiswaybetterthanyou.html#.UOFpVG-TzGE


----------



## TheLetterD (Jan 1, 2013)

noob said:


> XBOX 720 with Intel HD graphics





Spoiler



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH


  This made my day.

btw if Sony does go for an APU with a 7670, AMD will improve the drivers for the dual graphics thing right? So.... will it benefit PC users with a Trinity with a 6670 on Dual Grfx?


----------



## vickybat (Jan 1, 2013)

^^ Amd has nothing to do with the software side here. They'll just provide the custom hardware as per sony's requirement.
Harnessing everything will be sony's part and maybe amd will support. Don't think this as a pc with a standalone os.


----------



## vickybat (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok here's another big story.

Who's gonna prevail when the dust settles??

*Sonys-4k-vs-Microsofts-Illumiroom-Which-Will-reign-Supreme-Next-Generation?*


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Jan 10, 2013)

people will lap up "illumiroom" 
btw who will burn cash on 4K HDTV's when they already have HDTV's


----------



## vickybat (Jan 14, 2013)

IBM may introduce the new CELL chip for next-gen consoles from Sony?

If this is true, it will be a big big surprise for everyone.


----------



## amjath (Jan 14, 2013)

A countdown is running in Major Nelson blog which ll end on June 11 2013 which nothing but Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3)
Xbox Live's Major Nelson » Countdown to E3 2013 :
I am damn sure its next gen XBOX.


----------



## RCuber (Jan 15, 2013)

machinima posted a video on youtube yesterday stating that "PS4" may be released before "Xbox720", can't give link as its currently blocked in office  , both around the time of E3.


----------



## vickybat (Jan 15, 2013)

Rumour: Xbox 720 and PlayStation 4 to be revealed around GDC in March

RCuber i guess the rumors are indeed shaping up to be true. 

Another nice info:

Next PlayStation, Xbox to Cost $350 to $400, Say Analysts


----------



## amjath (Jan 16, 2013)

here is a link which points to the E3 which i posted earlier for xbox
Sony Home Entertainment VP teases PlayStation 4 launch in May or June - GSMArena Blog

so i think there is ahead launch and all it going to be showdown @ E3


----------



## RCuber (Jan 22, 2013)

Durango (Xbox 720) Alpha Kit Info Leaked



> CPU:
> - x64 Architecture
> - 8 CPU cores running at 1.6 gigahertz (GHz)
> - each CPU thread has its own 32 KB L1 instruction cache and 32 KB L1 data cache
> ...


*www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/durango_arq1.jpg
*www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/1.jpg
*www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2.jpg
*www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2012-05-25_08-59-58_57-600x337.jpg
*www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/rLoAt-600x800.jpg


links
Rear Durango, a new view for the Alpha Kit - VGleaks
Announcement: Microsoft's new machine here on vgleaks !!! - VGleaks
What's inside Durango's Alpha kit? -
*www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-durango-unveiled/


----------



## anirbandd (Jan 29, 2013)

> THE CURRENT PS4 DEV KIT, AT A GLANCE
> 
> *8GB system memory, 2.2GB video memory
> 4x Dual-Core AMD64 "Bulldozer" CPU, AMD R10xx Liverpool GPU
> ...





The PlayStation 4 Has A New Controller, Fancy User Accounts And Impressive Specs (So Far)
The PlayStation 4's Great New Ideas - Cheat Code Central

*CPU:*

Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters”
Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache
256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU
SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX)
One hardware thread per core
Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle
Out of order execution
Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each)
Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance
102.4 GFlops for system


*GPU:*

GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
DirectX 11.1+ feature set
Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture
18 Compute Units (CUs)
Hardware balanced at 14 CUs
Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache
800 Mhz
1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s
Dual shader engines
18 texture units
8 Render backends


Memory:

4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s
3.5 available to games (estimate)

*www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-orbis-unveiled/


----------



## vickybat (Jan 29, 2013)

^^ Thanks for sharing the link buddy.  Orbis seems to be more powerful owing to the beastly southern islands GPU in it. Durango seems to be using pitcairn (GCN) with 12 CU while Orbis has 18. I assume this to be more powerful than a desktop 7870 owing to architectural tweaks in southern islands (GCN 2). In a console with extremely little abstraction, expect this to perform like a 7970 crossfire in windows.

PS3 and xbox have measly gpu's ( nvidia 6800gt and ati hd 2600) but still are able to churn rich visuals. Imagine what a next gen gpu like GCN 2 will do here.
It should have the ability to drive 4k displays. Consoles were never this powerful and flexible.

Hats off to AMD for developing such a powerful yet cost effective solution. *LIVERPOOL* seems to be the most powerful SOC in the world yet.


----------



## anirbandd (Jan 30, 2013)

and keeping in mind the "WTF" kind of optimisation that console games get.. Yeah!!!!!! 



vickybat said:


> ^^ Thanks for sharing the link buddy.  Orbis seems to be more powerful owing to the beastly southern islands GPU in it. Durango seems to be using pitcairn (GCN) with 12 CU while Orbis has 18. *I assume this to be more powerful than a desktop 7870 owing to architectural tweaks in southern islands (GCN 2). In a console with extremely little abstraction, expect this to perform like a 7970 crossfire in windows.*
> 
> PS3 and xbox have measly gpu's ( nvidia 6800gt and ati hd 2600) but still are able to churn rich visuals. Imagine what a next gen gpu like GCN 2 will do here.
> It should have the ability to drive 4k displays. Consoles were never this powerful and flexible.
> ...



absolutely...

and Sony will support 4K res. remember, back when it launched Bluray with the PS3, BluRay was almost unheard of and the PS3 was one of the main driving factors behind popularisation of the BluRay. the PS4 will support 4K and will popularise 4K TVs. 

Liverpool architecture FTW!!

and you are welcome!

btw, there seems to be a confusion in the system memory.. 8GB or 4GB??


----------



## vickybat (Jan 30, 2013)

^^ 4gb Gddr5 for "Orbis" and 8gb ddr3 for "Durango".

Orbis has a much higher memory bandwidth.


----------



## anirbandd (Jan 30, 2013)

i am talking about the Orbis PS4. look at the second line within the quote on my post.



> THE CURRENT PS4 DEV KIT, AT A GLANCE
> 
> 8GB system memory, 2.2GB video memory



this.. confusing?


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Jan 30, 2013)

well the clock is ticking, xbox 720 and the ps4 expected to arrive late 2013.. fingers crossed .. 

will they beat a i7 + hd 7970 ?



vickybat said:


> ^^ Thanks for sharing the link buddy.  Orbis seems to be more powerful owing to the beastly southern islands GPU in it. Durango seems to be using pitcairn (GCN) with 12 CU while Orbis has 18. I assume this to be more powerful than a desktop 7870 owing to architectural tweaks in southern islands (GCN 2). In a console with extremely little abstraction, expect this to perform like a 7970 crossfire in windows.
> 
> PS3 and xbox have measly gpu's ( nvidia 6800gt and ati hd 2600) but still are able to churn rich visuals. Imagine what a next gen gpu like GCN 2 will do here.
> It should have the ability to drive 4k displays. Consoles were never this powerful and flexible.
> ...



well theres a problem, out of all southern islands gpu, only the 7970 is dx11.1


----------



## anirbandd (Jan 30, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> will they beat a i7 + hd 7970 ?



may not live up to the raw power of i7 + 7079, but the games will get optimisations which will beat the crap out of PC games. Especially ports.


----------



## RCuber (Jan 30, 2013)

Please keep PC vs Consoles out of this thread..


----------



## axes2t2 (Jan 30, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> may not live up to the raw power of i7 + 7079, but the games will get optimisations which will beat the crap out of PC games. Especially ports.



Crap ports = more piracy.

Company's loss.


----------



## vickybat (Jan 31, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> well theres a problem, out of all southern islands gpu, only the 7970 is dx11.1



I mistyped that a bit. Its not southern islands but sea islands i.e GCN 2.0. 
Its dx 11.1.



anirbandd said:


> may not live up to the raw power of i7 + 7079, but the games will get optimisations which will beat the crap out of PC games. Especially ports.



Due to a very low level abstraction in consoles unlike what windows brings, i would say yes, they will handily beat an i7 + 7970 in gaming.


----------



## ico (Jan 31, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> well theres a problem, out of all southern islands gpu, only the 7970 is dx11.1


Every Southern Islands card is fully DirectX 11.1 compliant. HD 77xx, HD 78xx and HD 79xx.

Kepler on the other hand is not. NVIDIA Kepler not fully compliant with DirectX 11.1

But this hardly makes a difference.


----------



## hitman4 (Feb 1, 2013)

sony may announce ps4 this month
Sony teases big NYC event for Feb. 20, PS4 debut? | Reviews - Games and Gear - CNET Reviews


----------



## gameranand (Feb 1, 2013)

ico said:


> Every Southern Islands card is fully DirectX 11.1 compliant. HD 77xx, HD 78xx and HD 79xx.
> 
> Kepler on the other hand is not. NVIDIA Kepler not fully compliant with DirectX 11.1
> 
> But this hardly makes a difference.



Ah thanks for the update. I thought that my CF setup is not Dx11.1 compatible. 



hitman4 said:


> sony may announce ps4 this month
> Sony teases big NYC event for Feb. 20, PS4 debut? | Reviews - Games and Gear - CNET Reviews



Well its a good thing that someone is finally making it official and soon after that next company would follow.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 1, 2013)

> Finally, the Journal said Sony will "likely" go with chips from AMD, rather than the Sony-IBM-Toshiba-developed Cell chip that's in the PS3, *a move that could cause compatibility issues with current games* and would end Sony's partnership with graphics-chip maker Nvidia.



 oh god why why why?!


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## gameranand (Feb 1, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> oh god why why why?!



Business Strategy. Get most money out of customers.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 1, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Business Strategy. Get most money out of customers.



Its not a mere strategy. Its not worth the time and work spent ( from a business and revenue generating point of view) to port all games to work on newer hardware.

Ibm powerpc architecture uses RISC instructions. Porting them to x86 is tedious. 
The old chip also can't be integrated into the new pcb due to higher costs of extra hardware.


----------



## tkin (Feb 1, 2013)

So to all those who bought PS3 games worth $1000, adios, they will stop production by 2015 I think. This is why you game on a PC, I can still play Doom, quake, road rash, ain't nothing gonna change that


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## anirbandd (Feb 1, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Business Strategy. Get most money out of customers.





vickybat said:


> Its not a mere strategy. Its not worth the time and work spent ( from a business and revenue generating point of view) to port all games to work on newer hardware.
> 
> Ibm powerpc architecture uses RISC instructions. Porting them to x86 is tedious.
> The old chip also can't be integrated into the new pcb due to higher costs of extra hardware.



yeah i knew the moment it parted away from the Cell proccy.. 



tkin said:


> So to all those who bought PS3 games worth $1000, adios, they will stop production by 2015 I think. This is why you game on a PC, I can still play Doom, quake, road rash, ain't nothing gonna change that



you are forgetting that console devs reap huge profit coz games are not pirated to a level as PC games. why do you think MS made Halo, Gears of War, Forza, etc XBox exclusive? Why are Uncharted, GoW, MGS4, GT, all console exclusive, even though consoles are harder to work on...


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## tkin (Feb 1, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> yeah i knew the moment it parted away from the Cell proccy..
> 
> 
> 
> *you are forgetting that console devs reap huge profit coz games are not pirated to a level as PC games. why do you think MS made Halo, Gears of War, Forza, etc XBox exclusive? Why are Uncharted, GoW, MGS4, GT, all console exclusive, even though consoles are harder to work on...*


Starcraft II  

And F2P, like Firefall, Tribes Ascend and Crimecraft are just too awesome, I was on of the first users to get a firefall beta key, its public now I think, I don't mind a few exclusives for the consoles


----------



## gameranand (Feb 2, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> yeah i knew the moment it parted away from the Cell proccy..
> 
> 
> 
> you are forgetting that console devs reap huge profit coz games are not pirated to a level as PC games. why do you think MS made Halo, Gears of War, Forza, etc XBox exclusive? Why are Uncharted, GoW, MGS4, GT, all console exclusive, even though consoles are harder to work on...



Every console has its exclusive including PC, its not much of a big issue at all. No console player can play a RTS yet on any console expect PC, also RPGs are best played on PC LTIC. What I mean that you never run out of really awesome games with any console or PC.


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## vickybat (Feb 6, 2013)

Xbox 720 (durango) gpu details are almost confirmed. It will be based on a radeon 7770 with 768 shaders in total.
Total number of CU's will be 12 each having 4 simd's and each simd unit will have 16 alu's or stream processors. Each CU or SC (SIMD cluster) will have its own l1 cache, vector and scalar registers & most importantly a dedicated scheduler. The architecture is undoubtedly GCN and is a big step forward from xbox 360's xenos chip.

Detailed Specifications of Microsoft Xbox Next GPU Emerge on the Web - X-bit labs

But ps4 or orbis seems to have a more powerful gpu as per leaks. It has 18 CU's as opposed to 12 in durango.


----------



## tkin (Feb 6, 2013)

7770, hmm, so, optimized it will be equivalent to say a 7870? Good, maybe its time we can use the monstrous GPU's we keep buying.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 6, 2013)

tkin said:


> 7770, hmm, *so, optimized it will be equivalent to say a 7870? *Good, maybe its time we can use the monstrous GPU's we keep buying.



yes, and probably more, like a 7950.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 6, 2013)

The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray discs and new Kinect

Say goodbye to pre-owned games.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 6, 2013)

spells massive trouble for the common indian gamer punk.


----------



## amjath (Feb 6, 2013)

vickybat said:


> The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray discs and new Kinect
> 
> Say goodbye to pre-owned games.



good move against piracy


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 7, 2013)

piracy in console games is almost none compared to PC games. check the seeds on torrent sites.

i hope Sony wont make move like this as well..


----------



## vickybat (Feb 7, 2013)

^^ It seems they are using the technology patented by sony. So ps4(orbis) might also block used games.

HARDOCP - Next Xbox Will Block Used Games?


----------



## tkin (Feb 7, 2013)

amjath said:


> *good move against piracy*




Buying a second hand game is not piracy.

This will actually hurt business and would hurt Indian customers a lot, many of my friends own consoles, now most of the times they trade games among themselves, because games cost around 2.5k here, and unless a person is a very rich man its hard to afford 20*2.5k=50k for games per year, this would kill console in India, I can absolutely bet on that, any person who is informed about this feature won't buy it, unless he has 50k to spare for gaming per year, also note here this will be heavily contested by shops like gamestop etc and EU will probably throw this restriction out of the door: EU court rules second-hand sales of digital goods legal | bit-gamer.net

If you buy something it belongs to you, you should be allowed to sell it, if not then reduce game prices by atleast 80%. Spending $60 on something that you'll use for a week and forget about it? Specially here in India where its 2.5k? Games that won't have a popular multiplayer mode will collect dust in the shelves.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 7, 2013)

^^ This.


----------



## amjath (Feb 7, 2013)

tkin said:


> Buying a second hand game is not piracy.
> 
> This will actually hurt business and would hurt Indian customers a lot, many of my friends own consoles, now most of the times they trade games among themselves, because games cost around 2.5k here, and unless a person is a very rich man its hard to afford 20*2.5k=50k for games per year, this would kill console in India, I can absolutely bet on that, any person who is informed about this feature won't buy it, unless he has 50k to spare for gaming per year, also note here this will be heavily contested by shops like gamestop etc and EU will probably throw this restriction out of the door: EU court rules second-hand sales of digital goods legal | bit-gamer.net
> 
> If you buy something it belongs to you, you should be allowed to sell it, if not then reduce game prices by atleast 80%. Spending $60 on something that you'll use for a week and forget about it? Specially here in India where its 2.5k? Games that won't have a popular multiplayer mode will collect dust in the shelves.



Oops Sorry missed this Second hand game word entirely from the article. My eyes were only on "Always Online". Thinking that It ll eradicate piracy by downloading games from torrent and modding 
So as far as Second hand game thing is concerned, they really want to make money


----------



## tkin (Feb 7, 2013)

amjath said:


> Oops Sorry missed this Second hand game word entirely from the article. My eyes were only on "Always Online". Thinking that It ll eradicate piracy by downloading games from torrent and modding
> So as far as Second hand game thing is concerned,* they really want to make money*


As if they don't make enough, just use a online pass system, like where they charge to use online mp, like some ea games are doing, why stop the entire secondhand game system? Or charge say $5 to activate a second hand game, locking it is crazy.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 7, 2013)

Third party modders might come up with a fix. Removing the security check can be achieved with some software patch which is not impossible.
Besides, this is pc hardware and has a high chance of getting modded easily.

But the move was definitely stupid by microsoft ( sony too).


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 7, 2013)

now now, lets not count the chickens before they hatch. wait till 20th feb, and then we'll talk about what PS3 has taken away from/given to the gamers


----------



## gameranand (Feb 7, 2013)

Well it will actually hurt all the parties, customer, console maker and game developer. If it would be like this then many people will just cut themselves out from the console gaming as it would be much more costly than before.
The idea to charge for activating the second hand game using lesser amount of money is a good idea. I hope that both the company see this point and change the decision or well PC gaming will be on top unchallenged which I want anyway.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 7, 2013)

why charge for a 2nd hand game?? its my game, i bought it with money, and i may sell it to whoever i want..

as it, MS is already charging gamers ~60$ per year for XLive service, contrary to free PSN, isnt this bleeding the same tree that MS is growing on[parasitically]??


----------



## tkin (Feb 7, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Well it will actually hurt all the parties, customer, console maker and game developer. If it would be like this then many people will just cut themselves out from the console gaming as it would be much more costly than before.
> The idea to charge for activating the second hand game using lesser amount of money is a good idea. I hope that both the company see this point and change the decision or well *PC gaming will be on top unchallenged which I want anyway*.


If console gaming dies, the revenues goes away, studio dies, pc gaming dies


----------



## gameranand (Feb 7, 2013)

tkin said:


> If console gaming dies, the revenues goes away, studio dies, pc gaming dies



Ouch...That hurts. Don't give me that, I just bought a gaming RIG.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 7, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Ouch...That hurts. Don't give me that, I just bought a gaming RIG.



What tkin said is absolutely true. Studios exist due to consoles. 
This is just a move to generate more revenue. Not talking about india but people in developed nations will buy games no matter how expensive 
they become or 2nd hand games are banned. This is purely a revenue generating move.

Indian gamers will be much affected than most others though. But as i said, there will definitely be a workaround.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 8, 2013)

Well then console gaming market would be very competitive in terms of games because if you are putting 2.5K on a game then you would make it damn sure that its worth your money.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 8, 2013)

i see the market for xbox in india diminishing..


----------



## tkin (Feb 8, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> i see the market for xbox in india diminishing..


PS4 will also have this.


----------



## Skud (Feb 8, 2013)

I see increased piracy.


----------



## tkin (Feb 8, 2013)

Skud said:


> I see increased piracy.


Always online, piracy will have a hard time, just like how hard it is to crack antiviruses since they always keep on updating the program.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 8, 2013)

tkin said:


> Always online, piracy will have a hard time, just like how hard it is to crack antiviruses since they always keep on updating the program.



Basically means that anyone who want to play game offline in some distant place is no go.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 8, 2013)

tkin said:


> PS4 will also have this.



didnt see this, got any links??



Skud said:


> I see increased piracy.



not much.. now xbox is moving over to BluRays, most games will be massive in size[exclusives will be].. so, not much takers in India with its state of net connectivity/bandwidth.



tkin said:


> Always online, piracy will have a hard time, just like how hard it is to crack antiviruses since they always keep on updating the program.



with PC-like architectures, more modders will be itching to lay their hands on the security protocols. I see more GeoHotz-s 

btw, i was thinking, now that both ps4 and xbox are moving towards PC architectures, how easy will game emulation be??


----------



## amjath (Feb 8, 2013)

^ thats exactly what i wanted to know. U see there is no emulator for xbox  and ps3 games [correct me if i'm wrong] to play them in PC. So this PC architecture in next gen consoles may give way for emulators right?

Or may be it ll be extremely easy for game dev's to port any console to PC easily isn't it??

If so this move in new architecture, will make companies to invest less 'cause they can port them easily 

So again more money here



tkin said:


> As if they don't make enough, just use a online pass system, like where they charge to use online mp, like some ea games are doing, why stop the entire secondhand game system? Or charge say $5 to activate a second hand game, locking it is crazy.



Greedy towards money


----------



## Skud (Feb 8, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> not much.. now xbox is moving over to BluRays, most games will be massive in size[exclusives will be].. so, not much takers in India with its state of net connectivity/bandwidth.




Not talking about India exclusively.



tkin said:


> Always online, piracy will have a hard time, just like how hard it is to crack antiviruses since they always keep on updating the program.




Unlike AV, games don't need to be updated on a daily basis. Unless games become like Diablo III with server side assets, it will remain very crackable. Look at Ubisoft and even Steamworks games. 

Also read this:-

Xbox 720 to use always-on DRM? It would doom the console



> With games breaking sales records left and right, it’s not like piracy or the used games market is actually hitting the console gaming industry so hard that console developers need to cut out a portion of its market in order to protect the rest of it. On top of that, as we’ve seen, always-on DRM induces rage, and making everyone mad isn’t the best way to garner good will for a product launch.


----------



## thetechfreak (Feb 8, 2013)

Here we go! Next-gen Microsoft Xbox to have Siri-like voice recognition

Digital Voice assistant even in gaming consoles now!


----------



## tkin (Feb 8, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> didnt see this, got any links??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1. No emulation, its extremely unoptimized, hence to run a PS2 game you needed a powerful PC, with the monstrous Hardware these consoles will have it'll be impossible. Just the hardware is same, but you do need to run the games, and we won't have access to the custom direct x or open gl interface of the consoles.

2. Geohotz wasn't successful with new firmware which needed a haardware mod, I don't have much faith in him 



Skud said:


> Not talking about India exclusively.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One issue, what if they ship a new firmware code with almost every new game, like some PS3 games come with silent firmware update inbuilt?



thetechfreak said:


> Here we go! Next-gen Microsoft Xbox to have Siri-like voice recognition
> 
> Digital Voice assistant even in gaming consoles now!


With kinect ready this was just one step away, wonder why it didn't have it upto now.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 8, 2013)

tkin said:


> 1. No emulation, its extremely unoptimized, hence to run a PS2 game you needed a powerful PC, with the monstrous Hardware these consoles will have it'll be impossible. Just the hardware is same, but you do need to run the games, and we won't have access to the custom direct x or open gl interface of the consoles.
> 
> 2. Geohotz wasn't successful with new firmware which needed a haardware mod, I don't have much faith in him
> 
> ...



FYI each ps3 disc does have the latest firmware[at the time of game release] on it. its nothing silent.. when the system senses that a newer firmware is present on the disc, it automatically updates. and those updates are forced. again, f/w checks take place each time someone logs into PSN. updated f/w is must for net connectivity.

GeoHotz did not get the opportunity to work on the new firmware.. Sony had already lawsuited his ass for making the private keys public/posting work arounds for security checks...


----------



## vickybat (Feb 8, 2013)

Proof that the Wii U Might Not be ‘Next-Gen’

This thing is doomed for sure.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 8, 2013)

With voice assistant India will be doomed, My computer never listens to me correctly no matter what I do. I have speak in another accent to make it understand correctly.


----------



## tkin (Feb 9, 2013)

gameranand said:


> With voice assistant India will be doomed, My computer never listens to me correctly no matter what I do. I have speak in another accent to make it understand correctly.


Maybe the computer thinks you are suppose to speak english like this:
*youtu.be/mXKGzBHHU84


----------



## ico (Feb 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Proof that the Wii U Might Not be ‘Next-Gen’
> 
> This thing is doomed for sure.


where's the proof?

This thing sold well enough. Still not as doomed as PS Vita has been.

Wii sold more than Xbox 360 and PS3 despite having old hardware. Nintendo has their family market.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 9, 2013)

ico said:


> where's the proof?



You'll get one soon.

Talk about sales, wii sits out at 99 million units shipped worldwide and has been sitting there for quite a while.
Both ps3 and xbox 360 are going extremely strong at 70+ million units worldwide.

On the contrary , they are even beating the wii-u which is a so called "next gen system".

Xbox 360 vs. PS3 vs. Wii U sales figures give Microsoft, Sony edge over Nintendo

With so much hype about the "true" next gen systems, i wonder what's gonna happen to wii-u since those will be much cheaper
than the launch prices of current gen consoles owing to off-shelf parts. Wii had the "being cheap" advantage back then which the wii-u probably doesn't have.

This time, Nintendo's protective circle (family) won't be able to save them. Honestly this console has nothing home to write about with the lackluster titles it offers.


----------



## ico (Feb 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You'll get one soon.
> 
> Talk about sales, wii sits out at 99 million units shipped worldwide and has been sitting there for quite a while.
> Both ps3 and xbox 360 are going extremely strong at 70+ million units worldwide.
> ...


heh, Wii sits at 99m sold worldwide for "quite a while" because Wii U was officially revealed more than 1.5 years back. There was a point of time 3+ years back when Wii roughly had the same overall sale as Xbox and PS3 combined.

Game titles come with time. Not on launch. Even PS3 hardly had anything home to write about at launch, except the loss Sony was making with each unit sold.

Superficial disadvantage as of now. You don't even know the price PS4 and Xbox Next will retail for. I wonder with the hardware they have inside, are they going to be considerably less than $300. Not.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 9, 2013)

ico said:


> heh, Wii sits at 99m sold worldwide for "quite a while" because Wii U was officially revealed more than 1.5 years back. There was a point of time 3+ years back when Wii roughly had the same overall sale as Xbox and PS3 combined.
> 
> Game titles come with time. Not on launch. Even PS3 hardly had anything home to write about at launch, except the loss Sony was making with each unit sold.
> 
> Superficial disadvantage as of now. *You don't even know the price PS4 and Xbox Next will retail for.* I wonder with the hardware they have inside, are they going to be considerably less than $300. Not.



That's why i used the word *"probably"*. Its gonna be $350-$400 at best. Analysts claim them to be significantly cheaper than the launch prices of current gen and nobody is taking that with a grain of salt this time. All speculations seem true considering the parts in use and amd behind them especially cpu. Jaguars are not only powerful but are extremely cost effective. Amd has build a gem of a cpu.

People will rather pay $100 (if prices don't end up being higher) more and get something which truly exudes "next gen" rather than buying a $300 piece of junk.
And what future titles you expect? Multiplats for ps4 and next xbox won't show up in wii-u because its incapable of handling games of those levels. It will have its usual crappy line up..... new mario, new zelda , put in some next wii sports and its library is full. Its kind of a jack of no trades. It still barely competes with a ps3/xbox 360.

In other words, wii- u  is destined to be doomed.


PS4: hands-on, name, pricing, software and more - PSU predicts NYC next-gen reveal event


----------



## tkin (Feb 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> That's why i used the word *"probably"*. Its gonna be $350-$400 at best. Analysts claim them to be significantly cheaper than the launch prices of current gen and nobody is taking that with a grain of salt this time. All speculations seem true considering the parts in use and amd behind them especially cpu. Jaguars are not only powerful but are extremely cost effective. Amd has build a gem of a cpu.
> 
> People will rather pay $100 (if prices don't end up being higher) more and get something which truly exudes "next gen" rather than buying a $300 piece of junk.
> And what future titles you expect? Multiplats for ps4 and next xbox won't show up in wii-u because its incapable of handling games of those levels. It will have its usual crappy line up..... new mario, *new zelda* , put in some next wii sports and its library is full. Its kind of a jack of no trades. Its still barely competes with a ps3/xbox 360.
> ...


I'd buy Wii just for that and I think may others will.


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## anirbandd (Feb 9, 2013)

PlayStation 4 will cost $399, claims report - VideoGamer.com

no one care cares about INR??


----------



## tkin (Feb 9, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> PlayStation 4 will cost $399, claims report - VideoGamer.com
> 
> no one care cares about INR??


25k here, not bad, but if no second hand games allowed, lets see how many will buy it?


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## anirbandd (Feb 9, 2013)

thats the question.. Xbox 720 will be strict no-no..


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## gameranand (Feb 9, 2013)

Which company confirmed that it won't allow second hand games ?? Sorry I forgot.


----------



## quad_core (Feb 9, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Which company confirmed that it won't allow second hand games ?? Sorry I forgot.




SONY , if I'm not wrong  .


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## vickybat (Feb 9, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Which company confirmed that it won't allow second hand games ?? Sorry I forgot.



It was confirmed by microsoft but i guess sony will soon follow. It might change plans also.



tkin said:


> I'd buy Wii just for that and I think may others will.



Yeah zelda is popular i know and has been a selling point for nintendo. But you got to have some other good titles to warrant a purchase.
I have used a wii ( not wii-u) for a year and the games are not worth it. They are purely casual. My sister-in-law used to play bowling/golf with it and its meant for that group of people.
Its not meant for any form of hardcore or story based gaming.

Right now, ps3 and xbox 360 are also offering similar titles in psn and xbla. No point in buying wii now or even this wii-u. 
And its not inexpensive too. Wii is expensive than xbox 360 in india. Wii-U is not even getting most multiplatforms releasing for ps3/xbox360.
Third party developers are avoiding it for some reason.Games like dead space 3, DmC, New TombRaider,Crysis 3 and others are missing in Wii-U. Honestly, nintendo doesn't have enough first party developers like microsoft or sony do to woo customers. Only hardcore ninti fans would consider it and its declining these days. People have really moved on from games like zelda and mario. Super meat boy can be termed as a true successor of mario and extremely challenging at that.


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## gameranand (Feb 9, 2013)

And just when its all heating up
*Microsoft Insider Claims It Should Refocus on PC*


----------



## vickybat (Feb 10, 2013)

Some interesting news:

Ninten-D'oh! Wii U ZombiU Deluxe Set driving fans away in hordes



Spoiler






> Another consumer added,* "I bought the Deluxe not even a month ago and im [sic] so mad I cant stand it. Pro controller and Zombie U an extra $110 dollars worth of stuff thats without tax for only $39.99. I think Ill be taking my Wii U back and waiting for the new Xbox or Sony to come out."*
> Why bother purchasing something when it first releases when you can get it for a fraction of the cost as part of a bundle shortly after? By announcing this bundle, and offering no form of compensation to early adopters, Nintendo has potentially tarnished its reputation with fans. If you purchased a Wii U console at launch, you have every right to be pissed. Hopefully, Nintendo acts quickly on this.
> 
> This blunder comes shortly after Ubisoft announced Rayman Legends, a former Wii U-exclusive title, would be released on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Oh, it was also delayed until September.






Wii U sells just 34,000 pieces of software in January



Spoiler






> UK software sales for Wii U last month were rather abysmal. Just 34,000 games were sold in the territory throughout January. The figure is even more bewildering when you consider that all copies of Nintendo Land – yes, the ones bundled in with the Premium Pack – count towards the total. Wii U maintained a market share of just 1.6% in the UK.
> 
> A full listing of UK software totals and market shares for other platforms can be found in the graphic above






Now leaving that filthy crap behind, here's some real news about next-gen. The heavyweights finally face-off even before an official reveal.

*Spec analysis: Durango vs. Orbis*



Spoiler






> *Direct X 11 vs. LibGCM*
> 
> All of which brings us on quite nicely to the development environments accompanying the new hardware. It's business as usual for Microsoft, expanding on the existing Visual Studio tools used to create current-gen Xbox 360 titles. The switch from PowerPC to 64-bit x86 processors sees the introduction of a number of new extensions designed to leverage the new hardware, while the customised version of DX9 utilised by 360 gives way to a similarly enhanced DX11.
> 
> ...







This article is a must read for true lovers of next-gen systems.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 10, 2013)

i am a true lover :cheers:


but there is no saying if i may be able to afford one[PSOrbis] when it launches.


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## vickybat (Feb 10, 2013)

Sony PlayStation 4 “Orbis” May Cost Between $399 and $499 at Launch

I guess it will be a bit expensive at launch but price should fall after it starts getting more number of titles.


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## tkin (Feb 10, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Sony PlayStation 4 “Orbis” May Cost Between $399 and $499 at Launch
> 
> I guess it will be a bit expensive at launch but price should fall after it starts getting more number of titles.


Hmm, 30k in India? Well that's too bad, sales of PS3 took off in India only after it got to sub 20k, I see no future in India for a 30k console.


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## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

At 25K people will buy a new console I guess.


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## tkin (Feb 11, 2013)

gameranand said:


> At 25K people will buy a new console I guess.


Not as many as sony would want.


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## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

tkin said:


> Not as many as sony would want.



Well obviously but still if its 30K+ then very less amount of people will buy the product. At 25K many people buy it because they can't afford anything else in that price and when price goes up to 35K they think add another 5K and get a PC.


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## vickybat (Feb 11, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Well obviously but still if its 30K+ then very less amount of people will buy the product. At 25K many people buy it because they can't afford anything else in that price and when price goes up to 35K they think add another 5K and get a PC.



I don't think even a 100 or 150k pc can beat these new consoles. You have no idea how a custom 7970m has the power to perform in a closed box environment.
Do you think a 40k pc can stand against these and provide superior gaming performance? Not a chance.

The new libraries like libgcm and updated directx 11.x has immense potential not found in existing api's. Now console counterparts won't look inferior.
The 7970m based gpu will simply unleashed in an open-gl environment. I mean if a game like uncharted 3 or God of war 3 looks that amazing rendered by an abysmal gpu like RSX ( Nvidia 7800gt),
then imagine what these new consoles are capable of that too laced with true 8 core cpu's.

From what i see, the gaming landscape is going to change. 


Ok now time for some info. 

PlayStation 4 to Focus on New Gameplay, Not Hardware

The Sunday Seven: Sony's Other Big Reveals for Feb 20th
I wouldn't be surprised if killzone 4 looks like that. Its already a crysis 3 killer.

Only the incompatibilty of used games is a big turn-off if its true.

Since this is a next gen discussion thread, here's some thing truly next-gen and almost ready to be unleashed:

'Daylight' First 3rd-Party Game Using Epic's Unreal Engine 4


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## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

From what I can see nothing is going to change. It will improve slowly and steadily as usual.


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## vickybat (Feb 11, 2013)

gameranand said:


> *From what I can see nothing is going to change.* It will improve slowly and steadily as usual.



Nope not now thanks to the insane amount of horsepower available in consoles this time around. Development will see a massive upgrade and thanks to the pc like architecture, tapping into the power will be quick. For the record, check the following video:



Spoiler



[YOUTUBE]2C9borX-3Dg[/YOUTUBE]

This video is of bad quality but you can make out what i mean 





Here, you see three games, crysis 1 on an ultra high pc, crysis 2 on xbox 360 and killzone 3 on ps3. Mind that the console games run on stone age hardware. 360 uses ati xenos ( derivative of hd 2xxx series) and ps3 is even worse ( nvidia 6800/7800gt).

Keeping that in mind, just see how killzone 3 looks. It has arguably one of the best graphics in an fps. You can ask asingh here and he'll tell you.
I myself had witnessed killzone 2 and boy it looks spectacular in 1080p tv. So if such stone-age hardware can produce graphics like that in a closed box environment,
imagine what a 7970m ( modified 7870 desktop) will do. I guess you can point out the power difference between a 7870 and a 6800gt in a console. Imagine playing crysis 1 on a 6800gt or hd 2xxx series card!!!!

Can you play crysis 2 in a pc with a 6800gt and achieve similar graphics that you see in an xbox 360? Its simply not possible due to windows abstraction.
You have to see killzone 3 in 1080p to understand the power of consoles.

Check two masterpieces to be launched on ps3 this year:



Spoiler



[YOUTUBE]8ZYkj0glnqs[/YOUTUBE]





Spoiler



[YOUTUBE]4NEup8y0g-Q[/YOUTUBE]
This one has one of the most advanced facial designs in a game. The actress is ellen page ( inception) and for the first time in history,
a AAA hollywood actress has done a game fulltime with voice-acting and full body motion capture. Its like she's done a new movie altogether. 

All this in a ps3 having a mediocre 6800gt gpu



Again you see developments of this level in a ps3. Just imagine how things will turn on newer consoles.
The launch titles will give you a deep insight. Pc development will also benefit greatly and developers have chosen the right time to bring newer engines into
the picture starting with UE4. 

I mentioned the new libraries designed specially to tap into the power of consoles straight away. All this are bound to speed up development and bring greater amount of realism much faster than you realize. Remember consoles drive gaming industry and pc gaming completely depends on it. Also expect pc graphics hardware to to change faster than before in an attempt to match or surpass these new consoles. Last time, amd 4/5 series and nvidia 2xx/fermi was required to surpass consoles. Same will be the situation now.


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## tkin (Feb 11, 2013)

Looks like I might have to buy an Orbis soon, but only if a supported KB/Mouse accessory is released(that actually works) and no second hand game lock cr@p. I will never be rich enough to spend 20k per year on gaming alone.


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## anirbandd (Feb 11, 2013)

now, if Orbis get that kb/gaming mouse, it will overwhelm a major part of the pc gaming market.


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## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

You see its never about what you can achieve with any hardware its always about what a developer wants you to see. If the former were the case then no would have ever bought a console simply because they lack hardware part right but people do buy that and developers make what they want and what they can.
Its always upto developer what they want the audience to see, do you really think that these console will kill PC market or a high end PC can't compete with them ?? I mean come on PCs can always compete it comes to developer what hey going to make their preference, now if consoles today will have a high end card of this generation then you think that GPU industry will just pause their researches and all until a new console is needed or consoles have lived their life cycle. The PS3 and Xbox 360 got the best what they could get from 5 year back, next gen consoles are getting what best is available today. I mean I really see no point about a big change or anything. Yes there will be a hype and some news for 5-6 months and after that it'll all settle down and the debate will begin again. Console or PCs in which PCs will win as usual. So tell me whats new ??
You are talking about horse power, the next gen console are still a 50K PC without monitor, tell me if I am wrong. Of course in 50K you are just putting GPU and CPU and other components and excluding many components so the high end system, but fact remains same that they can't beat a Ultra high end PC. Maybe games will look better on the consoles as for now because they'll be more optimized but fact remains the same. Give the console 2 years and they get behind the PC.

I witnessed PS3 and Xbox360, PS3 in initial days was like something else you now. I bet you have also seen those crazy days and so many flame wars at forums and everywhere digging up the same thing over and over again. Xbox360 is inferior to PS3 in many aspect but does games looks worse in it, certainly no because thats the way developer wants it to go. It all comes down to developer what they want. 
I am witnessing that PC gaming is actually improving, I mean many console exclusives are coming on PCs lately. I take it as a good sign and its good that developers are seeing this way and as long as developers sees it this way consoles can't beat PC.


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## vickybat (Feb 11, 2013)

gameranand said:


> You see its never about what you can achieve with any hardware its always about what a developer wants you to see. If the former were the case then no would have ever bought a console simply because they lack hardware part right but people do buy that and developers make what they want and what they can.
> Its always upto developer what they want the audience to see, do you really think that these console will kill PC market or a high end PC can't compete with them ?? I mean come on PCs can always compete it comes to developer what hey going to make their preference, now if consoles today will have a high end card of this generation then you think that GPU industry will just pause their researches and all until a new console is needed or consoles have lived their life cycle. The PS3 and Xbox 360 got the best what they could get from 5 year back, next gen consoles are getting what best is available today. I mean I really see no point about a big change or anything. Yes there will be a hype and some news for 5-6 months and after that it'll all settle down and the debate will begin again. Console or PCs in which PCs will win as usual. So tell me whats new ??
> You are talking about horse power, the next gen console are still a 50K PC without monitor, tell me if I am wrong. Of course in 50K you are just putting GPU and CPU and other components and excluding many components so the high end system, but fact remains same that they can't beat a Ultra high end PC. Maybe games will look better on the consoles as for now because they'll be more optimized but fact remains the same. Give the console 2 years and they get behind the PC.
> 
> ...



You are completely deviating from the topic friend. You are simply generalizing facts.
Its nothing like what developers want to show you but how efficiently you tap into the power.

Read about cell architecture and you'll understand why multiplats look inferior on a ps3 while exclusives are in a whole different level.
Do you know cell can do vertex shading and compute based ray tracing? Exclusives benefit from that greatly and you can call it a secret sauce.

Ok let me try to make this simple. 

You know that java is a very powerful oop language Its extremely robust and has an enormous api set and flexibility.
But still its not used in game development. Instead C++, lisp and other languages are used. C++ is like a default language not only in game development but also 
developing operating system kernels. Can you answer why ? If you can answer this , you can get my point. 

Even if you don't, i'll correlate everything as simply as possible.


----------



## Skud (Feb 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You are completely deviating from the topic friend. You are simply generalizing facts.
> Its nothing like what developers want to show you but how efficiently you tap into the power.
> 
> Read about cell architecture and you'll understand why *multiplats look inferior on a ps3 while exclusives are in a whole different level.*
> ...




Only if a game is multiplatform, we can properly compare the image quality/graphics/looks across the platforms. Exclusives will always look best on their respective platforms.


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## Faun (Feb 11, 2013)

I just don't see the appeal in buying consoles. Even if they try to lure me with exclusive title.


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## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

Skud said:


> Only if a game is multiplatform, we can properly compare the image quality/graphics/looks across the platforms. Exclusives will always look best on their respective platforms.



In that case PC always wins,


----------



## vickybat (Feb 11, 2013)

gameranand said:


> In that case PC always wins,



Anand i asked you something mate.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Anand i asked you something mate.



Yeah coming to that part.
Yes I read about the Cell processor and also read that why developers didn't prefer it because the coding required is quite difficult and different, however in case of exclusives developers were free to fully utilize the resources and raw power that Cell Processor gave to them. But that is the case with PC also and Xbox also, I mean can any game looks better than Crysis even now, yes they come close to it and sometimes even beat it in some particular aspects but altogether they can't.

About OOP and Java, One thing that I can easily speculate is that programmers are more used to it and as its a default language, so nobody wants to change that because that might also cause some problems. For example we have DirectX and OpenGL but most games are DirectX based even though OpenGL is better than that in most aspects just because its default and widely used so nobody wants to change that. Also many of the libraries and engines are coded in this language so it becomes easy for the developer to stimulate it into the programming. If we go deeper then of course we will find many more reasons but if I stay above the deeper facts and all, then I can think of this reason. I know that you are very well known to language but as you asked me a laymen answer so I am giving that only and not going in any deeper aspects. I am just stating what I'll tell someone with no knowledge about language.


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## vickybat (Feb 12, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok mate now lets see if i can clear your doubts here. Coming to the question that i asked you i.e why not java instead of C++,lisp and others?

The answer is JVM or simply "Java virtual machine". Think of JVM as a mini os type layer on which java code runs. In short java does not have direct hardware access or simply
access to low level components. It communicates through JVM. Whenever you write a java source code, it gets compiled by a compiler generating a byte code. This byte-code runs on a JVM which allocates memory and cpu time slice for the process to run. Let the process be a game code accessing various 3d libraries like directx or opengl.

Now C++ is an intermediate language i.e it has features of both high and low level language. Most importantly, it can communicate with lower hardware like cpu and memory directly. It does not require something like a JVM to run below it. 

Now game code generates interactive content which behaves according to user input right. So if you write a game code in C++, it directly talks to the gpu, allocates memory etc all by itself in real time with extremely less lag. But if you write the same code in java, there is considerable lag due to the presence of JVM and there will be time lost in compilation of source code into byte code then again running that in JVM. Then jvm will takes its time to allocate memory and cpu cycles and then only you get the resulting output.

So which is faster? Definitely C++ and that's why, game codes and even engines are written in C & C++. Android also uses a virtual machine to run java code called DVM or "Dalvik Virtual Machine". Its basically a JVM.


So you must be wondering why i brought JVM into the picture. That's because i wanted you to understand what a software abstraction really is. Its nothing but a piece of
software to communicate with underlying hardware. Think this as a layer on top of hardware to communicate and behave according to instructions provided. Every api you know of is an abstraction to communicate with hardware.

Now in context of consoles and pc, there are abstractions too. In pc, the abstraction is the OS and for a gaming platform, that OS is windows as you know.
Now windows is not only meant for gaming and not developed to handle only 3d api's. It has to support all sorts of application for different hardware set. The only common aspect are x86 processors. So windows should be capable of communicating with different hardware configurations. To do so, it offers restrictions of different levels so that applications perform optimally. By imposing these restrictions, it offers deeper layers of abstraction. So when game libraries are called by your gamecode to be processed in a gpu, it has to go through windows layers which like jvm allocates memory, cpu/gpu cycles and other aspects for data processing. So there is a downtime present and resources go into wait states.
Since windows also decides how much cpu cycles etc is assigned, its not always optimal. It does not address optimal amount of memory or optimal no. of cpu/gpu resources always as windows is not written to support a fixed hardware set. 

So your gpu in this case is not utilized at its full potential. This is called an open box design as the os supports a variety of apps to run on underlying hardware.

Coming to consoles now, they too have abstraction but not as deep as windows. Their software is written according to their fixed state of hardware and how to allocate resources to the maximum potential and optimally. So the api's in consoles almost directly communicate with low level hardware with maximum resource use. This is called a closed box system.

Therefore a 7970 in a console will be much much faster than in pc because the game code and api's will use it to the fullest thanks to a customized abstraction layer which optimally allocates resources. That's why gaming consoles are so much hyped at launch and will certainly beat current pc's. Now how much  performance benefits the system achieves depends on various other aspects. But this is the simplest reason.

But pc's with their ever changing hardware, eventually counterattack in time by bruteforce when their architectures develop in each iteration of their development cycle.
When ps3 was launched, it wasn't beaten by pc's of its time but after 2 years when pc hardware developed.


I hope you got it mate.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah we all know that. I knew that Java uses Virtual way and other reasons also, but like I said didn't mentioned them in the post. Also I know that in PC hardware never gets fully utilized and all. All I told you that nothing is going to change, its a general fact and I just stated that. But nice info.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 12, 2013)

Playstation 4 is Looking Far Better than the next-gen Xbox.

Although sony patented the anti piracy technology of blocking used games, there are strong rumors that they won't implement it unlike microsoft.
Everything will be clear in just a little more than a week from now.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Playstation 4 is Looking Far Better than the next-gen Xbox.
> 
> Although sony patented the anti piracy technology of blocking used games, there are strong rumors that they won't implement it unlike microsoft.
> Everything will be clear in just a little more than a week from now.



Ah...I take that as a good sign. I hope they don't implement that and Xbox will be eating dust.


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## hellknight (Feb 12, 2013)

But somehow, you can't ignore that Microsoft is a world leader when it comes to developing software. Look at the SDK & the hardware for XBox 360. On paper, it doesn't stands anywhere close to PS3. But have one look on Halo 4's graphics & you'll be blown away but the fact that what Microsoft can do with their awesome SDK. Moreover, Microsoft has a card up its sleeve, XBox Live. So I think that Microsoft has an advantage in the next-gen console war.


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## anirbandd (Feb 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Ok mate now lets see if i can clear your doubts here. Coming to the question that i asked you i.e why not java instead of C++,lisp and others?
> 
> -snip-
> 
> I hope you got it mate.



extremely well written.. i understood everything.. except this: 





> In pc, the abstraction is the OS and for a gaming platform, that OS is windows as you know.


----------



## sam_738844 (Feb 12, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> extremely well written.. i understood everything.. except this:



I think by that he meant that Operating System in PC actually acts as the main Layer of Abstraction between the underlying hardware and the user. Main flavor of abstraction is where the user do not have to bother about how the programme he's running is actually interacting with the resources in a PC (low level), increasing usability and ease of use and giving a high-level design. We as of now have used windows dominantly for gaming and hence he's pointing to that.


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## vickybat (Feb 12, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> extremely well written.. i understood everything.. except this:



I meant windows only coz that's the default platform for pc gaming due to the presence of directx api.
sam_738844 has comprehended correctly.


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## anirbandd (Feb 12, 2013)

oh, by gaming platform you meant gaming PC... i thought console  

@sam: thanks!!


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 13, 2013)

I was wondering, Gamers on Steam who buy games on day one, never really complain about Steam not allowing used games sales even though the pay the full 60$ price, there were situations like a guy who's account worth 1500$ of games was banned coz Valve found out that he sold it to another guy, and there's an organisation in Germany that's going legal with Valve's policies on second sales...and not a single fcuk is given by any body, but when it comes to the console gaming lot of them are totally against it, why is that?


----------



## sam_738844 (Feb 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You are completely deviating from the topic friend. You are simply generalizing facts.
> Its nothing like what developers want to show you but how efficiently you tap into the power.
> 
> Read about cell architecture and you'll understand why multiplats look inferior on a ps3 while exclusives are in a whole different level.
> ...



Ofcourse a  language...but JAVA is altogether a technology. Being Technology JAVA  speaks for platform independence,its incredibly robust with its encapsulation and resilient use of ploymorphism and its synchronization with web based and mobile platforms. 

But being such a monster, it takes control away...by control programmers mean a lot of things, by control they mean procedural approach, pointer access and full scale memory reference orienation. Game programming needs that much of freaking control. Am not saying that by introducing call by reference, C++ gave birthright to JAVA to take pointers away from us, its like showing you the cookie jar but not giving away.

 JAVA as vicky said is abstraction based, means you know many things in your code but you DO NOT know everything, you do not have to. But Game programmers need that "everything known" in their code. Also using a very high level language like java also invites practices like writing wrappers, packages, passing objects and continuous approach of method manuvers....and ultimately doing down to cross-compilation, interpretation and VM.

So it comes down to simple practice of mingling a lil flavor of OOP with a lil bit of good-old low-level touch. Programmers love that.
Also there are SDK's in various platforms are leaned to C++ already. Also vicky i think many platform holders dont really allow VM and JIT compiling right from start? do they? 

And for 3D game programming, C++'s strength is speed. There's no default graphics library. For most platforms you could use OpenGL which is pretty good and supported, except in those platforms from Microsoft like the xbox i assume.

And What about C#, its pure OOP though


----------



## vickybat (Feb 13, 2013)

sam_738844 said:


> Also vicky i think many platform holders dont really allow VM and JIT compiling right from start? do they?
> 
> And What about C#, its pure OOP though



Well i can't say the level in which they allow JIT (Just in Time compilation)  but its actually a saving grace from programming latency that  VM's bring and therefore java. 
There is a JVM known as *Hotspot* that was initially meant for desktops and servers managed by oracle corporation.

Hotspot itself is written in C++ but relies heavily on assembly language and has some 250,000 lines of source code. It has the JIT functionality and the byte-code it generates is converted to machine code at runtime. So it takes away a lot of latency that VM's usually bring. From java 7 , its the default JVM and thus implements JIT.

It is said that in some cases, optimizations in hotspot jvm can help surpass performance of conventional hand-coded C & C++.
But those cases are few and definitely don't find application in game programming maybe due to added complexities.

Microsoft's .NET framework also uses JIT which means it must be using some sort of VM and thus doesn't find applications in game programming.
I don't have much (maybe nil) knowledge on .NET (C#) though. .NET practitioners here can throw more light into its structure. 

You can read about Hotspot *here* .



cyborg47 said:


> I was wondering, Gamers on Steam who buy games on day one, never really complain about Steam not allowing used games sales even though the pay the full 60$ price, there were situations like a guy who's account worth 1500$ of games was banned coz Valve found out that he sold it to another guy, and there's an organisation in Germany that's going legal with Valve's policies on second sales...and not a single fcuk is given by any body, but when it comes to the console gaming lot of them are totally against it, why is that?



Still you can lend hard copies right. Its blocked in digital distribution by means of DRM but nothing has been done yet with physical copies.
So atleast there are means of lending and most rental/used game stores benefit from this business. 
Consoles (apparently next Xbox) is blocking that which isn't going good amongst gamers.

GameStop: Xbox 720's Ban of Used Games Will 'Significantly Diminish' Demand



hellknight said:


> But somehow, you can't ignore that Microsoft is a world leader when it comes to developing software. Look at the SDK & the hardware for XBox 360. On paper, it doesn't stands anywhere close to PS3. But have one look on Halo 4's graphics & you'll be blown away but the fact that what Microsoft can do with their awesome SDK. Moreover, Microsoft has a card up its sleeve, XBox Live. So I think that Microsoft has an advantage in the next-gen console war.



Even though i'm a huge playstation fan and more excited about orbis than durango, i can't deny with the facts you have put.
Halo 4 is a looker and i was blown away by it. I never expected xbox 360 to churn that kind of visuals in its exclusives. It puts a lot of high quality PC titles to shame and that too 
using stone-age hd 2xxx graphics. Amazing work by "343 industries". 

Microsoft has ample development strength which is undeniable and they are also highly capable of extracting maximum performance from their consoles.
It won't be an easy battle for either.


----------



## sam_738844 (Feb 13, 2013)

Nice article there in wiki, and actually i did not recall that formal name of Adaptive Optimization....Hotspot...

after acquiring SUN, oracle is trying hard to implement their marketing strategies to globalize and inject JAVA more into platforms where there is still a "do not enter" board for JAVA. One of 'em is might be this AO which is said to surpass even C performance bringing down the time for recompilation. 

Also read some more about how c# can fair in Game programming...they say that C# has a bright future in that...since coders migrating from C++ to C# wont have any trouble as its already syntactically similar, OOP and is a "managed language", which means that it automatically does the memory plumbing (GC?) for you It also gives you access to Microsoft's XNA (*X*NA *N*ot *A*cronymed...its recursive) Framework that does even more of the tedious plumbing for you. That leaves you to concentrate on things like the game cycle and design.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 13, 2013)

sam_738844 said:


> Nice article there in wiki, and actually i did not recall that formal name of Adaptive Optimization....Hotspot...
> 
> after acquiring SUN, oracle is trying hard to implement their marketing strategies to globalize and inject JAVA more into platforms where there is still a "do not enter" board for JAVA. One of 'em is might be this AO which is said to surpass even C performance bringing down the time for recompilation.
> 
> Also read some more about how c# can fair in Game programming...they say that C# has a bright future in that...since coders migrating from C++ to C# wont have any trouble as its already syntactically similar, OOP and is a "managed language", which means that it automatically does the memory plumbing (GC?) for you It also gives you access to Microsoft's XNA (*X*NA *N*ot *A*cronymed...its recursive) Framework that does even more of the tedious plumbing for you. That leaves you to concentrate on things like the game cycle and design.



If C# is flexible in that level, then it might be implemented while developing games for next Xbox.
Actually XNA framework's already in use for developing games for xbox 360 and windows. It seems microsoft is really pushing this.
 Lets see if i can extract some more info about all this. This certainly sounds interesting.


----------



## Skud (Feb 13, 2013)

XNA is dead.


----------



## RCuber (Feb 13, 2013)

C++ is not similar to C# atleast in VC++.. everytime I see VC++ code ... I go WTF!!!.


----------



## sam_738844 (Feb 13, 2013)

Skud said:


> XNA is dead.



But C# is not...its very unfortunate but true that the launch of Windows 8 and RT Microsoft has shifted from XNA to accomodate sensor-specific application media and apps...for modern devices also making apps more touch-friendly, these new apps will run on both traditional x86  and mobile ARM chips, but as vicky said microsoft will push hard, for a start apps written in HTML/CSS/JS, XAML/C#, or even C++/XAML will be targeting the same WinRT API’s. 

So C# has the perfect scope of expansion. then there is MonoGame....what can i say more...reincarnation of XNA?  for its same ope source implementation of the Microsoft XNA 4 Framework only...even MonoGame has set their goal  to allow XNA developers on Xbox 360, Windows & Windows Phone to port their games to the iOS, Android, Mac OS X, Linux and Windows 8 Metro.  PlayStation Mobile development is currently in progress.....is what they said originally....C# has a lot of space to fly and with more feather in its wings...



RCuber said:


> C++ is not similar to C# atleast in VC++.. everytime I see VC++ code ... I go WTF!!!.



the resemblance is in the object orientation...not in its representation.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 13, 2013)

C# is indeed well accepted as the next choice for a game programming language. The following can be considered as a small proof:

C# Game Programming: For Serious Game Creation: Daniel Schuller: 9781435455566: Amazon.com: Books

The word "Serious" in the title itself justifies everything. It also harnesses open-gl . Games developed for orbis might take this up as LibGcm is a derivative of open-gl and like sam said, sony were already talking about C# for their mobile projects.

*Now time for some next-gen news*: 

Square Enix Luminous Next-Gen Engine Shows What PS4/Xbox 720 Graphics Will Look Like

Just dropping visuals in the screenshots.

The Future of Bungie’s Destiny on Xbox 720 and PS4, Timed Exclusives and the PS Meeting

Next-gen PS4 Eye rumored to sport dual 720p cameras, compete with Kinect

EA's money man spills the beans on its next-gen plans


*Finally, more proof of why nintendo wii-u is doomed :*

*NINTENDO WAS NOT READY TO LAUNCH THE WII-U*


----------



## dashing.sujay (Feb 13, 2013)

RCuber said:


> C++ is not similar to C# atleast in VC++.. everytime I see VC++ code ... I go WTF!!!.



Same here.


----------



## theserpent (Feb 13, 2013)

Amazing graphics


----------



## gameranand (Feb 13, 2013)

Bungie's Future with PS4 Does that mean Halo ain't a Xbox exclusive anymore ??


----------



## vickybat (Feb 13, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Bungie's Future with PS4 Does that mean Halo ain't a Xbox exclusive anymore ??



Bungie doesn't develop halo anymore. Its now developed by microsoft's in house studios named *"343 industries"*. They developed halo CE anniversary and halo 4 and plan to continue the franchise in next-gen. Halo 4 really has jaw dropping graphics. I never thought Xbox 360 will be capable of that kind of visuals. A very talented studio i must say.

The article i gave is based on a new IP called "Destiny" which will be a multiplatform title developed by bungie. They are no longer under microsoft and thus are free to develop for all platforms.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 13, 2013)

Oh thats good for Sony atleast.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *"343 industries"*. They developed halo CE anniversary



Nope, CE anniversary was made by Saber, not 343.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 13, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Nope, CE anniversary was made by Saber, not 343.



Its actually co-developed by saber and 343i.

Certain affinity worked on the multiplayer of halo ce anniversary and also developed the forge mode of halo 4.

Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

343 Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Its actually co-developed by saber and 343i.
> 
> Certain affinity worked on the multiplayer of halo ce anniversary and also developed the forge mode of halo 4.
> 
> ...



343i hardly had any actual work on the game, the interviews, developer commentary are more trust worthy than the wikipedia page. 343i could have been a consultant on the project, coz some of the important Bungie staff joined 343i as soon as it was formed, may be they were giving some kinda feedback. But it was all Saber's work, their engine, their idea of switchable graphics, completely remade sounds, etc...


----------



## vickybat (Feb 14, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> 343i hardly had any actual work on the game, the interviews, developer commentary are more trust worthy than the wikipedia page. 343i could have been a consultant on the project, coz some of the important Bungie staff joined 343i as soon as it was formed, may be they were giving some kinda feedback. But it was all Saber's work, their engine, their idea of switchable graphics, completely remade sounds, etc...



Yeah i downloaded the ost yesterday. The remastered audio sounds excellent and better than the original. You should listen to -"Cloaked by blackness" which is the remake of "Under cover of the night".
Its my favorite soundtrack from CE.

Ok now some more next-gen stuff:

*Next-Gen Will Be 'A Substantial Leap Over The Current Generation' Says Epic*

*Rumor: Sony Patent Shows New Vita, Possible 4G Capabilities?*

*New Batman Game Due in 2013*


----------



## gameranand (Feb 14, 2013)

^^ You are most exited person about these consoles. Are you planning to get any or just curiosity ??


----------



## vickybat (Feb 14, 2013)

gameranand said:


> ^^ You are most exited person about these consoles. Are you planning to get any or just curiosity ??



Well you can say both. I was never a pc gamer to begin with. I owned both ps1 an ps2 in the past and had a lot of memorable experiences.
Been an ardent fan of Sony since then. Maybe i'll invest in one of these next-gen consoles someday. 

Ok check this out:

*Sony Books Huge Venue for PlayStation Meeting, Perfect Place for PS4 Reveal*

*PS4 controller: new details emerge pre-reveal*


----------



## gameranand (Feb 14, 2013)

Oh well then its good that you are digging this much. And no its not a sarcastic post.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 14, 2013)

No way I'd get one, but if I had to, easily choose PS4, and you know why


----------



## Skud (Feb 14, 2013)

NFS: Most Wanted looks better on Wii U?


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 15, 2013)

Skud said:


> NFS: Most Wanted looks better on Wii U?



Of the three console versions, yeah. Its kinda like a PC version ported to Wii U 

EDIT - Microsoft Exec: “Majority Of UK Consumers Won’t Know” About PS4 Reveal Next Week

*www.mcvuk.com/news/read/xbox-overtakes-wii-in-uk-we-ve-won-this-round/0110895

oh Microsoft!


----------



## amjath (Feb 15, 2013)

*sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/47804_10151428474582370_1973834045_n.jpg
Sony PlayStation 4 controller prototype reportedly leaked in new photo | The Verge


----------



## vickybat (Feb 15, 2013)

Here's a more detailed analysis of ps4's controller:

*A Closer Look at the PlayStation 4 Controller Prototype*

The following should be the touchpad that the ps4's controller should end up using:

*New PlayStation Eyepad controller patent discovered*

Here's what microsoft has to say:

*Sony's 20 Feb Reveal Is 'Important For The Industry' - Microsoft*


More news for nintendo fans: (lol)

*Nintendo’s Lack of Interest From Gamers Force Them to Make More Bad Decisions*


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 15, 2013)

nintendo lol


----------



## blurr (Feb 16, 2013)

I always thought sony controllers were a mash up between Microsoft and Nintendo controllers, I mean -
Dual Shock 3 controller had a the facets of a normal controller with "some" motion sensing implemented to it. 
When MS launched the kinect, Sony released released the PS eye toy with kinect like abilities except that it detected the Wii like motion controllers "dubbed" Move. 
Now the PS4 controller is said to have 360 like triggers and a Wii U gamepad like touch screen built in.
convinced yet?


----------



## ico (Feb 16, 2013)

More Nintendo doom and gloom? Used to read the same about Wii as well. Has been only 2.5 months since launch. How many games PS3 have back then?  Consoles pick up later.



blurr said:


> I always thought sony controllers were a mash up between Microsoft and Nintendo controllers, I mean -
> Dual Shock 3 controller had a the facets of a normal controller with "some" motion sensing implemented to it.
> When MS launched the kinect, Sony released released the PS eye toy with kinect like abilities except that it detected the Wii like motion controllers "dubbed" Move.
> Now the PS4 controller is said to have 360 like triggers and a Wii U gamepad like touch screen built in.
> convinced yet?


yeah. they sort of try to copy from both ends.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 16, 2013)

blurr said:


> .
> *Now the PS4 controller is said to have 360 like triggers and a Wii U gamepad like touch screen built in.*
> convinced yet?



Welcome to TDF mate. 

Yeah i would agree that Xbox 360's controller is the best and surpasses the dual shock 3 in terms of ergonomics. But dual shock's design was so perfect since the advent of
PS1 that the same design has been around since 1994. 

I mean  Sony has been following the phrase "why fix if it ain't broke" which holds true here.

You are again right that wii too had some innovation to showcase in its wii-mote. But again its audience are too casual.
And i had used a wii for a year and have lots and lots of hands-on experience. Believe me, a hardcore gamer or somebody even interested in gaming a bit more than casually, won't look back at the wii. Wii-mote works well with games like new super mario bros ( good game) & wii- sports. When i tried some hardcore gaming with it ( resident evil darkside chronicles), it proved to be a big turn-off. The game was also a wuss. Tomb-raider underworld looks horrible in a wii. I then realized that this console wasn't meant for my tastes and gave it a wide berth since then.

Now coming to wii-u, i don't think sony copied anything from it. I mean both sony and microsoft don't care about nintendo anymore coz its not in their playing field and never was.
The touchscreen you say sony copied isn't from wii-u but their own vita.

Sony controller most probably will feature a *"Touchpad"* rather than a touchscreen. Its just like a pressure sensitive plate that you see in conventional laptops.
Its nothing like a Wii-u. Not even close.

And playstation eye has been around since ps2 i.e much before kinect. But microsoft's technology innovated controller free gaming or atleast took the experience to a different level.

*Some more news:*

*At 57K sold, Wii U's January performance is historically abysmal*   (lol)

*The PS4 Announcement Will Drop PS3 Prices by 64%* This is great imo.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *The PS4 Announcement Will Drop PS3 Prices by 64%* This is great imo.



thats great news.. but what about the game prices??


----------



## vickybat (Feb 16, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> thats great news.. but what about the game prices??



Game prices should reduce too. Old ps3 titles are available well below 1500 inr now.

God Of War III [Essentials] -: Flipkart.com

Heavy Rain Move Edition [Essentials] -: Flipkart.com

Uncharted: Drakes Fortune & Uncharted 2: Among Thieves - Double Pack Bundle -: Flipkart.com

Have you played these? They are must play for every ps3 owner imo and your siggy says that you have one.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 16, 2013)

and there are offers sometimes, on PSN, I remember Uncharted 2/3 bundle was on sale for 10$


----------



## amjath (Feb 16, 2013)

WSJ: Sony will use Gaikai streaming tech to play PS3 games on the PS4


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Game prices should reduce too. Old ps3 titles are available well below 1500 inr now.
> 
> God Of War III [Essentials] -: Flipkart.com
> 
> ...



have em all  i am one UC fanboy 



vickybat said:


> Game prices should reduce too. Old ps3 titles are available well below 1500 inr now.
> 
> God Of War III [Essentials] -: Flipkart.com
> 
> ...



have em all  i am one UC fanboy 

damn double post bug.. i am NOT editing it.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 16, 2013)

Why is the EDIT button not working!?


----------



## blurr (Feb 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Welcome to TDF mate.
> 
> Yeah i would agree that Xbox 360's controller is the best and surpasses the dual shock 3 in terms of ergonomics. But dual shock's design was so perfect since the advent of
> PS1 that the same design has been around since 1994.
> ...


First off, sorry about the impromptu post, was really desperate for some forum action 
I personally think that ps controller redesign is a good move, considering that every end of my body is an ergonomics freak. 
Now "copied" is a strong word, I'm just saying that it has the facets of controllers from both the companies. I'm aware that PS Eye has been around longer than kinect but to see it being implemented with a motion controller about the same time MS introduced "kinect" a motion sensing camera should raise some eye brows. Then again I'm not accusing sony of "copying" something, no sir!


----------



## vickybat (Feb 16, 2013)

^^ Its working.

News time : 

*PS4 Will Not Be The Biggest Announcement At Playstation Meeting.*

*Sony Registers 3 Mysterious Trademarks*

*Wii U Sales Continue To Slide* (Its really alarming for nintendo. I hope it doesn't end up as gamecube)


----------



## hellknight (Feb 16, 2013)

So this is getting pretty interesting. But there is one thing that we haven't discussed on this thread, that is used games. According to various sources, Sony is going to implement some kind of RFID tech in the PS4 and its game. Then, once you pop in the new disc to your PS4, they will be bonded for life, like twins. What they fail to address is that what will happen if the PS4 breaks and owner decides to get a new one. Then will the old games play? Moreover, according to Gamestop, 60% of the customers won't buy the console which will not play the used games. 

GameStop: 60% of customers won&rsquo;t buy console that doesn&rsquo;t play used games | Ars Technica


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 16, 2013)

one more thing.. the next gen hardware.. since they will have a comparably easier dev cycle due to x86 hardware, can we say that the game prices will be lower??



hellknight said:


> So this is getting pretty interesting. But there is one thing that we haven't discussed on this thread, that is used games. According to various sources, Sony is going to implement some kind of RFID tech in the PS4 and its game. Then, once you pop in the new disc to your PS4, they will be bonded for life, like twins. What they fail to address is that what will happen if the PS4 breaks and owner decides to get a new one. Then will the old games play? Moreover, according to Gamestop, 60% of the customers won't buy the console which will not play the used games.
> 
> GameStop: 60% of customers won’t buy console that doesn’t play used games | Ars Technica



i thought sony was not going to implement that.. MS is sure to implement it though..


----------



## tkin (Feb 16, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> one more thing.. the next gen hardware.. since they will have a comparably easier dev cycle due to x86 hardware, can we say that the game prices will be lower??
> 
> 
> 
> i thought sony was not going to implement that.. MS is sure to implement it though..


Either both or none, no one is stupid, this is a duopoly, like HDD market, they'll take decisions like this together, so users will have no choice and both will profit.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 16, 2013)

hmmm.. i'll vote for sony not going into the game locking thing..

btw, introducing RFID strips on discs?? nice thing. thay can be bypassed.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 17, 2013)

Well Sony hasn't confirmed that part but Microsoft probably has. The new Xbox will use it but there were rumors about Sony not implementing that tech altogether.
Let's see where this goes. But definitely its a big turn-off for most gamers.


----------



## blurr (Feb 17, 2013)

A necessary internet connection makes sense but that RFID system sounds intimidating :\ let's hope it has a 3 user license or something of that sort.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 17, 2013)

News News News: 

*More Proof PlayStation 4 Will be Announced on Feb 20*

*Rumor: Sony takes a shot at Nintendo with new ad*

*President Obama says games can fuel technical innovation* (i fully agree with him)

*Five Reasons Why You Should be Excited for the Sony Meeting*

*PlayStation 4 brings new weapons to shifting battle for games market*

*Xbox 360 closes in on Wii's UK sales record*


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 17, 2013)

after all this excitement fromyour end, if you dont buy the Orbis, i am gonna punch you


----------



## vickybat (Feb 18, 2013)

^^  

Okay some more: 

*Naughty Dog: Our assets are created at high resolution, ready for PS4*

*10 Excuses By Developers That Won’t Be Valid For PS4/Xbox 720 Games*



Spoiler



*Playstation Evolution:*

[YOUTUBE]U7w5i_YCFmQ[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]akEZVSu9_Hk[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]-XF2pu-4rXc[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 18, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^
> 
> Okay some more:
> 
> ...





> It will be interesting to see how Naughty Dog will handle the challenges while they move their development structure from the PS3 to PS4.


 ND will do fine, yeah.



> 30 Frames a Second
> 
> 720p



these are definitely bad excuses.. and that 30FPS cap HAS to go.. atleast a 40FPS cap would be good, especially for racing/fps games.


----------



## blurr (Feb 18, 2013)

The PS retrospective videos are a pretty awesome way to tease ps4 I'll say. I wonder what sony will do/show to make up for the removal of used games support, if it doesn't then it's been nice knowing you sony. 
On the other hand I do have an idea about the used games issue - why don't publishers offer a discount on a game depending on the number of friends who own the game. It's like used games all over again except that the money goes to the right people. This should cover the digital end of sales at-least.

second ps4 controller image arises - 
*asia.gamespot.com/news/second-ps4-controller-image-emerges-6403992?tag=Topslot;LatestGamingNews;SecondPs4ControllerIma

Also, hilarious read! February 20th spoiled
*asia.gamespot.com/users/-INKling-/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-26009731


----------



## vickybat (Feb 20, 2013)

Ok check out some news before Orbis gets finally revealed today :  

* Sony is already advertising the PlayStation 4 in Champions League* ( Check out the timer)

*The PS4 Will Be Out This November, And You’ll Be Able To Control It With Your Phone*

*Top 3 Confirmed Next-Gen Games*

*Sony Highlights Gran Turismo’s History on Eve of Next-Generation PlayStation Announcement*


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks to you for keeping us updated on the Orbis launch 

and one more reason to punch if you dont buy the Orbis


----------



## vickybat (Feb 20, 2013)

^^ My pleasure buddy. 

*Sony is Rewarding “Loyal” Supporters with a Free $10 PSN Voucher*

More 12 hrs to go.


----------



## gameranand (Feb 20, 2013)

You are kind of our news guy for consoles. I don't have to go anywhere or search anything to get the news. Its here.


----------



## RCuber (Feb 20, 2013)

Tonight is the night


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 20, 2013)

RCuber said:


> Tonight is the night



more like morning 
Its around 4 30 AM isn't it?

Gotta sleep early then 



gameranand said:


> You are kind of our news guy for consoles. I don't have to go anywhere or search anything to get the news. Its here.



If you want more than that, N4G is pretty good, its not without crap news though.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 20, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> more like morning
> Its around 4 30 AM isn't it?
> 
> Gotta sleep early then
> .



Check the timer here mate. 

*Countdown to orbis*


----------



## RCuber (Feb 20, 2013)

4AM .. gotta sleep early


----------



## tkin (Feb 20, 2013)

*cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/35139657.jpg


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 20, 2013)

One does not simply fall asleep when PS4 is being unveiled!


----------



## tkin (Feb 20, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> One does not simply fall asleep when PS4 is being unveiled!


Hardcore PC gamer here, couldn't give a rat's behind


----------



## RCuber (Feb 20, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> one does not simply fall asleep when ps4 is being unveiled!





tkin said:


> hardcore pc gamer here, couldn't give a rat's behind



lmfao!!!


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 20, 2013)

tkin said:


> Hardcore PC gamer here, couldn't give a rat's behind



why are you on this thread then? don't think its worth more than a rat's behind!


----------



## tkin (Feb 20, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> why are you on this thread then? don't think its worth more than a rat's behind!


*Keep your friends close, your enemies closer* 

I'm here for the speculations, pricing and any chance to bash the Orbis, just tell me once it has the one time activation policy...


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 20, 2013)

^^ 

4AM.. no thanks i'll check back later.. my precious sleep.


----------



## tkin (Feb 20, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> ^^
> 
> 4AM.. no thanks i'll check back later.. my precious sleep.


Btech engineer sleeps? News to me


----------



## blurr (Feb 20, 2013)

Will be waking up early tomorrow. I'd like to have the privilege of being the first to know sometimes.


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 20, 2013)

tkin said:


> Btech engineer sleeps? News to me



i take my sleep and body health quite seriously.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> *Keep your friends close, your enemies closer*
> 
> I'm here for the speculations, pricing and any chance to bash the Orbis, just tell me once it has the one time activation policy...



You do realize there are better things to give a damn about rather than that one time activation policy, the only console that at least brings something new to the table unlike their competitors. Then again, even if they removed the activation policy, its not like you're gonna get it on day one.
Something the PC gamers should admit is that they feel jealous of all the kickaa$ games on PS3


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> You do realize there are better things to give a damn about rather than that one time activation policy, the only console that at least brings something new to the table unlike their competitors. Then again, even if they removed the activation policy, its not like you're gonna get it on day one.
> Something the PC gamers should admit is that they feel jealous of all the kickaa$ games on PS3


Kick@$$ yeah, enjoy your upscaled content, oh look there, a pixel, weeee..

Enough OT, found something mildly interesting: Sony’s PS4 Event Unveiling Next-Gen Battlefield 4? [Rumor] | Ubergizmo


----------



## Thunder (Feb 21, 2013)

So they showed everything from the upcoming next-gen games to the new controller to the new specs except the console itself.....WTF :s
One of the good things was the live demo of the game Watch Dogs. One Epic game that is.


----------



## blurr (Feb 21, 2013)

yea, I'm kind of pissed off over that too! A whole bunch of games but to be honest I'm not looking forward to play any of them.


----------



## Sarath (Feb 21, 2013)

Wow. That was amazing. Honestly I was almost praying that Sony do not start about Vita and other weird stuff and end it. The demos looked amazing. Looks like I am going to end up really poor this year. 

Lost a nights sleep but was well worth it.

Quantic Dreams <3


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> Kick@$$ yeah, enjoy your upscaled content, oh look there, a pixel, weeee..



Oh you should look at the new Killzone..crysis my as$


----------



## anirbandd (Feb 21, 2013)

^^ no use buying it this year itself.. i'm gonna buy later when the prices drop a bit.


----------



## thetechfreak (Feb 21, 2013)

Well atleast the future isn‘t RISCy 
Honestly I didn‘t expect a PS4 announcement


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

thetechfreak said:


> Honestly I didn‘t expect a PS4 announcement



Yeah that came as a surprise, particularly from those who said they'd wait till the competitor's announcement. The Killzone footage was mindblowing btw..



anirbandd said:


> ^^ no use buying it this year itself.. i'm gonna buy later when the prices drop a bit.



I should buy a PS3 first, as soon as there's a price drop


----------



## Skud (Feb 21, 2013)

Find this article pretty intriguing:-

PlayStation 4 launch vs. reality: Don't believe the hype - Destructoid


----------



## gopi_vbboy (Feb 21, 2013)

Is there any price difference for PS3 now in India and PS3 purchased in US?How much can we save?
Currently 500GB is around 22k on flipkart.


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

Sarath said:


> Wow. That was amazing. Honestly I was almost praying that Sony do not start about Vita and other weird stuff and end it. The demos looked amazing. Looks like I am going to end up really poor this year.
> 
> Lost a nights sleep but was well worth it.
> 
> *Quantic Dreams* <3


I call them Betrayer, the didn't develop Indigo Prophecy 2, they betrayed us 



gopi_vbboy said:


> Is there any price difference for PS3 now in India and PS3 purchased in US?How much can we save?
> Currently 500GB is around 22k on flipkart.


Its about $299, so around 16.5k there. Comes with AC3.



Skud said:


> Find this article pretty intriguing:-
> 
> PlayStation 4 launch vs. reality: Don't believe the hype - Destructoid


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

*Sony PS4 tech specs list ends RAM debate*

I guess the leaks about the ps4 using 8 core jaguar cpu + GCN gpu with 18 compute units is true. It could be 20 too coz now the total processing output is probably 2 tflops instead of 1.84 tflops.
E3 will be the official showcase for the console including detailed specs.

But now 8gb gddr5 RAM is confirmed.


*techreport.com/news/24387/sony-confirms-playstation-4-pc-guts


----------



## gopi_vbboy (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks tkin.Does that include price of controller or we need to buy separately?


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Thanks tkin.Does that include price of controller or we need to buy separately?


Yes, console, AC3, one controller(wireless) and 30day Playstaion Plus pass: Amazon.com: PlayStation 3 500GB Assassin's Creed III Bundle: Video Games


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

Skud said:


> Find this article pretty intriguing:-
> 
> PlayStation 4 launch vs. reality: Don't believe the hype - Destructoid



Typical Destructoid article 

EDIT - and, good news..

PlayStation 4 will not block used games

*www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

^^ Rubbish destructoid article i must say. 
The guy didn't knew or had no clue what he was talking about.

Just saw the killzone , capcom, U4 and other tech-demos. Crysis 3 is already history man.
I guess Naughty dog will bring their ACE at E3 and we all know what that would be. 

Besides, did you watch quantic dream's 3d model demo? The facial lines and textures beat crysis 3 models i've seen so far.
Their next  unannounced title will probably feature 'katie holmes' just like 'Ellen Paige' for 'Beyond'. 

I'll write a short preview soon. 

*P.S -* That's one heck of a news man. Ps4 being able to play used games is just an icing on the cake.
I expect this to beat the legendary "Playstation 2" and take the title of "The most successful console of all time".


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

Why Katie Holmes?



vickybat said:


> ^^ Rubbish destructoid article i must say.
> The guy didn't knew or had no clue what he was talking about.



Its possible, Sony will have a hard time getting around with the backlash if they really are faking their demos(Aliens CM says hi). But I don't think they are really foolish enough to do that, and the specs seem very much capable of producing the showcased visuals, the new KZ for example, looked good but not without flaws. I have different opinion on Capcom's Deep Down btw, which looked suspiciously good for a real time demo.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

^^ She's too good looking. 

Yeah but sony had proved people wrong before. You might remember the infamous killzone CGI trailer back in the ps3 launch days.
People questioned ps3's capabilities a lot with a lot of criticisms. 

Out of nowhere comes killzone 2 and silenced everyone. It not only matched that tech demo but also surpassed it visually.
The killzone shadow fall demo was no CGI but was a real-time demo. A 7970m class gpu is definitely capable of much much more than that in a closed box environment.
So it was definitely not fake. We already have an idea of capcom's brilliant MT framework engine in the lost planet series.

Their new engine for next-gen should be good and i won't be surprised if it turned out to be as good or even better than what was showcased in deep-down.
Expect a lot of other games and live-demos to be unveiled at E3 with even a chance to try them hands-on.

The physical ps4 should also be unveiled there.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Expect a lot of other games and live-demos to be unveiled at E3 with even a chance to try them hands-on.
> 
> The physical ps4 should also be unveiled there.



and the behemoth..Naughty Dog!!


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Rubbish destructoid article i must say.
> The guy didn't knew or had no clue what he was talking about.
> 
> Just saw the killzone , capcom, U4 and other tech-demos. *Crysis 3 is already history man.*
> ...


I wouldn't say that destructoid article was cr@p, read the comments there guys, the author is right, the tech demos mean nothing, wait for the actual games to launch first, its one thing to render a designed scene, another to run a game with all variables present.

*i.imgur.com/pCa0QYQ.png


----------



## iittopper (Feb 21, 2013)

killzone was the most impressive demo ! I will just buy ps4 for the sake of exclusive games , but will be a loyal pc gamer  . Oh before that i have to buy ps3 first to play uncharted and heavy rain


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

iittopper said:


> killzone was the most impressive demo ! I will just buy ps4 for the sake of exclusive games , but will be a loyal pc gamer  . Oh before that i have to buy ps3 first to play uncharted and heavy rain


Before buying it, take a look at actual killzone footage first 

PS4 is a brand new platform and it takes a few years for the devs to optimize it, chances are the games at launch will look nowhere near as good as the techdemos.

Go for PS3 first, get a used one to play the exclusives, games should become cheaper as well.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> PS4 is a brand new platform and it takes a few years for the devs to optimize it, chances are the games at launch will look nowhere near as good as the techdemos.



You can't apply that to every single console generation 



tkin said:


> Before buying it, take a look at actual killzone footage first



And it looked awesome, and perfectly possible on a rig like PS4


----------



## thetechfreak (Feb 21, 2013)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Is there any price difference for PS3 now in India and PS3 purchased in US?How much can we save?
> Currently 500GB is around 22k on flipkart.


and there might be problem of region locked BR disks(I might be wrong)



tkin said:


> Its about $299, so around 16.5k there. Comes with AC3.


Expect it to cost double in India


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> You can't apply that to every single console generation


worked for 3 generations, why not this? All I can say is buying anything, a new GPU architecture, revolutionary cheap tablets like funbook(FML  ), new consoles on launch day is a stupid idea, give it 6 months for the prices to come down, the bugs to be spotted and ironed out and for new games to come out, remember the infamous RROD or the YLOD? A X360 owner(my cousin) who bought it in usa just after launch almost threw his console through the window when it RROD's for the third time.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> worked for 3 generations, why not this? All I can say is buying anything, a new GPU architecture, revolutionary cheap tablets like funbook(FML  ), new consoles on launch day is a stupid idea, give it 6 months for the prices to come down, the bugs to be spotted and ironed out and for new games to come out, remember the infamous RROD or the YLOD? A X360 owner(my cousin) who bought it in usa just after launch almost threw his console through the window when it RROD's for the third time.



Yeah that's kinda true, but I was only responding to your comment on the optimization. 
Comparing the post launch issues of every generation might be a wrong idea, why not compare the kind of pre producton Sony, their first and third party developers had back then and have right now?(Scalable engines, how many devs had them back in 2004-5? none! and now? EA, Crytek, Epic, Capcom, SQE..) Even the third party developers are prepared more than ever for the next gen and lot of them even received the SKUs quite early. The destructoid article made the same mistake, he's only focusing on the problems it created but not how much the devs have improved since then. The guy also completely ignores the fact of Sony trying to simplify the hardware to allow easier development for the developers. Big fail journalism tbh, nothing new on destructoid 
*ITS 8GB GDDR5 FFS!!*


----------



## iittopper (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> Before buying it, take a look at actual killzone footage first
> 
> PS4 is a brand new platform and it takes a few years for the devs to optimize it, chances are the games at launch will look nowhere near as good as the techdemos.
> 
> Go for PS3 first, get a used one to play the exclusives, games should become cheaper as well.




yep saw the 8 min gameplay footage and it was really good . I will definitely not going to get ps4 on launch date ! but if the no of exclusives coming to only ps4 increase , i might have to change my mind.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

Check out the killzone footage 

[YOUTUBE]ubrVl297UMg[/YOUTUBE]

*Don't forget to change the quality to 720p for best experience.*


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

Capcom's Deep Down really impressed me, way better than Samatarian. But I'll wait till they show the actual game running on the box. Too good to be real time


----------



## Skud (Feb 21, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Rubbish destructoid article i must say.
> The guy didn't knew or had no clue what he was talking about.
> 
> *Just saw the killzone , capcom, U4 and other tech-demos.* Crysis 3 is already history man.
> ...




Have you read the article? That's exactly what the article wants to convey - there's a huge difference between a tech demo and the real games. The same with PC graphics cards, tech demos (particularly those of nVIDIA's) are far more impressive than any actual game.

It took a lot of time to actually tap the full capabilities of the hardware without hampering performance, not saying it's gonna happen this time too, but that's the trend.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

I heard Killzone 2 had a tech demo before PS3's release, but still surprised the people after the release? how true is that?


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> I heard Killzone 2 had a tech demo before PS3's release, but still surprised the people after the release? how true is that?


It surprised fanboys only 

By the time killzone 2 came Crysis had far surpassed it, 2 yrs before


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> It surprised fanboys only
> 
> By the time killzone 2 came Crysis had far surpassed it, 2 yrs before



yeah..surpassed(but still ran like crap) on a 1500$ computer, VFX studios surpassed games' visuals back in the 90's


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> yeah..surpassed on a 1500$ computer, VFX studios surpassed games' visuals back in the 90's


$1500? I played crysis maxed out on a 50k computer dude, with a GTS250. And what's more interesting, at that time computers started from 30k, I got an E8400+4GB RAM and GTS250.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

Crysis maxed out on a GTS250, the humor of that statement is too damn high! 

On the serious note, which year was it?


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Crysis maxed out on a GTS250, the humor of that statement is too damn high!


I didn't mention the resolution did I?  

1024x768  

Then I upgraded to a 1680x1050 monitor and traded the GTS250 for a 5850, again ftw playing


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> I didn't mention the resolution did I?
> 
> 1024x768



That's what I thought hahaha!


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

*Sony's PlayStation 4 Games Lineup Proves its Status as a Strong Next-Gen Contender*

Rumors about this beast has been true so far. Its already starting to show its power even before a physical unveil.


----------



## Skud (Feb 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Crysis maxed out on a GTS250, the humor of that statement is too damn high!
> 
> On the serious note, which year was it?




I played Crysis/Warhead maxed out at 13x7 with a HD4850, with all DX10 glories, 16x AF, no AA.


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]d9UmHm9HA3c[/YOUTUBE]

Watch this and don't forget to change settings to 1080p at the bottom.


----------



## hellknight (Feb 21, 2013)

Meh... unimpressed.. Consoles suck!!


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

hellknight said:


> Meh... unimpressed.. Consoles suck!!



That line has become so uncool right now, kinda over used


----------



## iittopper (Feb 21, 2013)

vickybat said:


> [YOUTUBE]d9UmHm9HA3c[/YOUTUBE]
> 
> Watch this and don't forget to change settings to 1080p at the bottom.



will the graphics be same as it is shown in this trailer ?


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

iittopper said:


> will the graphics be same as it is shown in this trailer ?


Yeah it will


----------



## iittopper (Feb 21, 2013)

tkin said:


> Yeah it will



I would have actually believed you , if you would not have use ""


----------



## tkin (Feb 21, 2013)

iittopper said:


> I would have actually believed you , if you would not have use ""


I mean it, serious, never fall for techdemos, wait for the platform to mature: PlayStation 4 launch vs. reality: Don't believe the hype - Destructoid


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

iittopper said:


> will the graphics be same as it is shown in this trailer ?



Only time will tell.



tkin said:


> I mean it, serious, never fall for techdemos, wait for the platform to mature: PlayStation 4 launch vs. reality: Don't believe the hype - Destructoid



Just some lame site looking for hits


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

iittopper said:


> I would have actually believed you , if you would not have use ""



If you'd ask me, it will be a "Yes". Capcom's old Mt framework dx11 engine was impressive in LP2.

This is next-gen man. The final product might surpass this like killzone 2 did in the past.
The killzone shadow fall demo looked great for an early title. The physics effects were worth noticing.
They have much much more room to improve.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

vickybat said:


> If you'd ask me, it will be a "Yes". Capcom's old Mt framework dx11 engine was impressive in LP2.
> 
> This is next-gen man. The final product might surpass this like killzone 2 did in the past.
> The killzone shadow fall demo looked great for an early title. The physics effects were worth noticing.
> They have much much more room to improve.



Nobody noticed the transparent structure around the building the player lands near?


----------



## vickybat (Feb 21, 2013)

^^ That bluish structure right?? What about it?

It looks very good to me.


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah..nice caustics.


Poor man's dual shock 4..

*sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/45727_10151349896045073_1159402800_n.jpg


----------



## cyborg47 (Feb 25, 2013)

One of the GG's developer confirmed that KZ shadow fall was using only 1.5gb of the ram


----------



## amjath (Feb 26, 2013)

There wont be any free subscription anymore Every PlayStation 4 game will be available to download, subscription service a possibility | The Verge


----------



## surajramnani2k8 (Feb 28, 2013)

I dont know why PS4 will follow what Xbox 360 is currently doing of paying for online subscriptions isnt paying a lot of money for a console game enough for the developers?I really feel its a waste to pay subscription charges to play online...Its better to atleast leave that portion of the console free for gamers.


----------



## tkin (Mar 1, 2013)

surajramnani2k8 said:


> I dont know why PS4 will follow what Xbox 360 is currently doing of paying for online subscriptions isnt paying a lot of money for a console game enough for the developers?I really feel its a waste to pay subscription charges to play online...Its better to atleast leave that portion of the console free for gamers.


Almost all consoles are sold at a loss or very low profit, they make up with such subscriptions, game profits etc.


----------



## cyborg47 (Mar 2, 2013)

xbox 720 trailer out..and its awesome!

[youtube]ZZDw-D2BSMg[/youtube]


----------



## anirbandd (Mar 2, 2013)

^^ 


Halo 5,6,7,8...... and 9..


----------



## satyanjoy (Mar 2, 2013)

surajramnani2k8 said:


> I dont know why PS4 will follow what Xbox 360 is currently doing of paying for online subscriptions isnt paying a lot of money for a console game enough for the developers?I really feel its a waste to pay subscription charges to play online...Its better to atleast leave that portion of the console free for gamers.



It's not like xbox silver or gold.Sony is planning to offer gaming as service, just like cable TV.Pay a monthly rental and access to certain number of game catalog


----------



## tkin (Mar 2, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> Halo 5,6,7,8...... and 9..


Halo pwns killzone any day, at least we get a decent story


----------



## cyborg47 (Mar 2, 2013)

tkin said:


> Halo pwns killzone any day, at least we get a decent story



Its kind of an odd situation, both sides have valid arguments. Halo's gameplay hasn't changed much since Combat Evolved, that's not a bad thing, at least they didn't surrender to the AimDownSights obsession with the recent games. But the story is pretty good.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Mar 7, 2013)

tkin said:


> Halo pwns killzone any day, at least we get a decent story



lol what a fanboy. wait.... if halo pwns killzone... why arent people buying it? 



Spoiler



Because its crap



truth be told, Halo wandered off right after Halo 2... and thats what Bungie have corrected with destiny... Halo with an expiry date of 10 years.



tkin said:


> Almost all consoles are sold at a loss or very low profit, they make up with such subscriptions, game profits etc.



all consoles *were* sold for a huge loss, the ps2 started selling at a loss of almost 200$ + and the ps3 i believe around 150$ or so.... but the ps4 will lose max 50~100...



cyborg47 said:


> Its kind of an odd situation, both sides have valid arguments. Halo's gameplay hasn't changed much since Combat Evolved, that's not a bad thing, at least they didn't surrender to the AimDownSights obsession with the recent games. But the story is pretty good.



but seriously nothing beats cs 1.6, if you are a true fan of FPS then cs 1.6 is for the pros.lol


----------



## amjath (Mar 7, 2013)

I have a doubt why do they sell consoles for loss


----------



## Bhargav Simha (Mar 7, 2013)

amjath said:


> I have a doubt why do they sell consoles for loss



That is to sell more.... If you sell a console for $700 against $500, people would rather buy a PC which is a more open platform and can do multiple things. 
Also once you get people to buy your product which they have to use for say 8 years (like the last gen consoles), you make money on the games created for the consoles. That is coz the Console manufacturers have royalty in every game that is created for the console.
I meant created for the console coz, unlike others in consoles royalty is not charged based on the no. of copies of games sold. But on  the no copies of games manufactured. That means a publisher has to pay for 1 million copies he has made, even when only 500k copies are sold.
Apart from that, being a closed envoirnment they charge for the console Dev kits too.
And there is also the premiun services offered.
Almost the same concept used in the Free to play games nowadays, but only more profitable.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (Mar 7, 2013)

amjath said:


> I have a doubt why do they sell consoles for loss



because otherwise the performance/$ of a console is the same as that of a pc. And until now most of the consoles have featured a custom built design right from the motherboard to the CPU, thats proprietary technology and also adds to the cost. Console makers make money through 

a. exclusive video game titles / video game sales
b. when technology starts becoming obsolete it becomes easier to manufacture at a lower price point

so now when the ps3 sells for 299$, its making profit.


----------



## amjath (Mar 7, 2013)

I get it thx both


----------



## anirbandd (Mar 14, 2013)

> The Official PlayStation Magazine recently conducted an interview with Michael Denny, vice president of Sony’s Worldwide Studios. They talked about the hardware behind the upcoming PlayStation 4, revealing that the developer community actually requested the x86-based platform.



Sony: Developers Requested x86 Architecture for PS4


----------



## amjath (Mar 15, 2013)

Reason why Nvidia is not powering next gen Playstation but AMD is! 

NVIDIA opted out of PlayStation 4, cites Sony not offering enough money


----------



## Thunder (Apr 5, 2013)

Microsoft's Creative Director on the issue of always online console's. Thoughts?
*img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/uvy2enar.jpg


----------



## thetechfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

@Thunder the resolution is way too less.

here is a better one *i.imgur.com/fulDo2f.jpg

and some comments to keep everyone busy(7k+ comments)

I'm glad Microsoft's creative director cares about the consumers. : gaming


----------



## anirbandd (Apr 5, 2013)

Thunder said:


> Microsoft's Creative Director on the issue of always online console's. Thoughts?
> *img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/uvy2enar.jpg



sure.. i wont buy it 
simple


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 5, 2013)

thetechfreak said:


> @Thunder the resolution is way too less.
> 
> here is a better one *i.imgur.com/fulDo2f.jpg
> 
> ...



Wow. This just feels like a tacit confirmation that the next Xbox will be always online or will at least implement online DRM in some form. Well, if it goes like this the PS4 will become my tertiary gaming machine not the Xbox.


----------



## anirbandd (Apr 5, 2013)

that Orthy guy is the MS creative director??


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 5, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> that Orthy guy is the MS creative director??



According to his Linkedin he is. Do Linkedin profiles count as personal information?


----------



## thetechfreak (Apr 5, 2013)

dead5 said:


> According to his Linkedin he is. Do Linkedin profiles count as personal information?



He is the Creative director. The screenshots are not fake or made up in any way. He did say that.
If you do a further Google search of his name you'll see he said "f*** halo" while he was in Sony; right before he joined MS.


----------



## Thunder (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks for the pic thetechfreak‚ dunno how my resolution got f*cked up.
back on topic. So this guy is basically flipping a middle finger at those who don't have a good high speed connection. And saying 'Deal with it' is just stupid.
Someone's getting fired soon.


----------



## cyborg47 (Apr 6, 2013)

somebody posted a comment...'deal with it, buy a ps4!'


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 6, 2013)

PlayStation 4 to appeal to women too | The Sun |News|Sun City



> Brit Mr House says the games console will feature a raft of new features to broaden its appeal beyond young male gamers.
> 
> Mr House told Sun City: “We are not going down the route of making the console pink of course.
> 
> ...



For some reason I think the touchpad will be less accessible than the touchscreen on the Wii U .

Miyamoto says give the Wii U time.

'Mario,' 'Zelda' creator says give the Wii U time - CNN.com



> Through a translator, Miyamoto told CNN.com that having a second screen for gaming in the living room is a new experience for gamers.
> He said the touchscreen interface with the Wii U Gamepad controller, combined with the main-screen action on a television, opens up options that have never been possible.
> "The challenge that we had was if someone wanted to view television, then you couldn't play games. We wanted to have a second screen for Wii U that would make it possible for people to essentially play games even if something else was on the TV," Miyamoto said.





> "There was a period when we first released the Nintendo DS that people would say there's no way people can look at two screens at once," he said. "I almost feel like, as people get more familiar with Wii U and these touchscreen interfaces, that there is going to come a point where they feel like 'I can't do everything I want to do if I don't have a second screen'."





> "Our immediate objective over the next few months is to improve the Wii U system and make it a little more stable, a little bit more convenient to use from a system standpoint," Miyamoto said. "Miiverse (a sort of social network that lets players interact) is an example of an ongoing project. We really wanted to be able to leverage Miiverse in something like 'New Super Mario Bros. U.' We're obviously still early on in it and just trying things out, but so far, it does feel like the community itself is doing a very good job of being a warm and welcoming place for people."
> "The other thing I think about is how do we begin getting people to understand that and convey the usefulness of Wii U to them. For me as a game developer, obviously I look at Wii U from the perspective of what games I can bring to Wii U."



Give us another Nintendo Direct on the Wii U plos.


----------



## Thunder (Apr 7, 2013)

*m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=A2WZhJccOMs&desktop_uri=/watch?v=A2WZhJccOMs
Response to Microsoft and Adam Orth by the Rage Geek


----------



## vickybat (Apr 8, 2013)

*SONY’S PS VITA COMEBACK CONTINUES AS WII U FAILS*

This is alarming for nintendo.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 8, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *SONY’S PS VITA COMEBACK CONTINUES AS WII U FAILS*
> 
> This is alarming for nintendo.



Luigi's Mansion released 2 weeks ago so a decline in 3DS sales is to be expected. 

DQX sales isn't too surprising. It wasn't all that well received on the Wii and the Wii U version literally has no meaningful enhancements. It enjoyed a ~75% sell through rate so it can be said that was expected.

The Game & Wario bomb is quite shocking though.  I'd guess it is because people were expecting something like Warioware but they got something like Game & Watch.

Oboromuramasa isn't unknown within Japan. It did quite well on the Wii.  

I'd expect the Vita to stabilize at 15 - 20k after golden week. 

If it continues selling at this rate the Vita will need ~500 weeks to catch up to the 3DS if the 3DS doesn't sell at all. Keep in mind that Pokemon X/Y haven't come out yet and Nintendo Handhelds peak with pokemon games.

Right now Nintendo has to hold back until E3 so that they aren't overshadowed by the western consoles catering to semi-casuals. The 3DS alone can keep them afloat for a long time. There is nothing they can do right now. A massive advertising push in the second half when most of the Wii U games come out(The Wonderful 101, WWHD, 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash 4, hopefully Retro's secret project etc.) will go a long way.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 14, 2013)

*PS4′s Not So Secret Weapons For Longevity | PS4 AMD APU*

HSA is the future of computing it seems.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 16, 2013)

*The Risk Behind The RAM: Is next-gen's biggest strength its greatest weakness?*

*Microsoft Xbox 720 to have omni-spatial gesture and Glasses-Free 3D UI *


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

*'Next Xbox Will Not Be Compatible With Second Hand'*

I really hope that this is a rumour.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

*twitter.com/Emi1yRogers/stat...57326451834881


> Emily Rogers ‏@Emi1yRogers
> 
> Here's a hint without giving anything away. There may come a time in the future when owning both a Wii U and 3DS will become beneficial.



*twitter.com/Emi1yRogers/stat...50993367367681



> Emily Rogers ‏@Emi1yRogers
> 
> I believe E3 will be a very good E3 for Wii U. Thankfully its only 1 and a half months away.



CVG Blog: Never count Nintendo out: 3DS push shows Wii U won't go quietly - ComputerAndVideoGames.com



> Which brings me to the Wii U. Regulars at CVG might be aware that I talk down the console's chances in the most definitive language possible whenever asked. Well, from the things I'm hearing, there's a chance I'll soon be added to the reject bin of crazy talking twitter twonks pretty soon.
> 
> Hopefully, if we obtain further details from our sources, we'll be in a position to explain more to you soon. But, for now, put it this way: In the past two years there have been moments of disquiet regarding the 3DS and - like an instant magic trick - Nintendo has put an end to this with sudden reveals of significant games that went on to become star performers at Christmas.



For those who are unaware, Emily Rogers is an Nintendo critic who says that although Nintendo makes good games, its recent business decisions have been extremely boneheaded(something I agree with to an extent).

Rob Crossley is one of the coolest(not in the rock n roll kind of way  ) and most level headed british journalists who has been on the "Wii U Doomed" train for quite some time and for him to change his opinion he must have heard something crazy. 

This, in context of the 100bn Yen target Iwata has set for the 2013 - 2014 FY, seems to indicate something big and very exciting is underworks.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

*The PS4 Must Save The Vita*

Lets hope this turns out to be true. After major price cuts in japan, vita has really been selling extremely well there and sometimes beating the 3ds as mentioned in that article(japan only).
Lets hope it gets a big price cut for the rest of the markets at E3 along with some good games. Sony has already hinted at the same. Ps4 can be the key here with remote play and other stuff.

*PS4′s Share button was Sony Santa Monica’s idea*

This time, all major first and third party developers made a tremendous contribution in making the PS4. One such idea is the share button that comes from their inhouse santa monica studios.
Lets see how good the ps4 turns to look out to be physically.

These next-gen consoles *( except for one)* are all set not only to deliver jaw dropping visuals and innovative gameplay options, but are also going to change the face of computing by a big margin.
The digital foundry article proves that. *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/gamerz/172953-future-proofing-your-pc-next-gen-gaming.html


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *The PS4 Must Save The Vita*
> 
> Lets hope this turns out to be true. After major price cuts in japan, vita has really been selling extremely well there and *sometimes beating the 3ds* as mentioned in that article(japan only).
> Lets hope it gets a big price cut for the rest of the markets at E3 along with some good games. Sony has already hinted at the same. Ps4 can be the key here with remote play and other stuff.
> ...



Beating the 3DS marginally on price cut week according to one (admittedly reputable) report does not count as sometimes beating the 3DS. 

I see two consoles that don't really offer much innovative gameplay options, not one.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

*Japan: PlayStation Vita Overtakes Nintendo 3DS As Best Selling Gaming Platform*

*PlayStation Vita Outsells 3DS in Japan*

*Vita Outsells 3DS in Japan, Strong Sales Continue*

*Japanese Sales Charts: One Piece Propels PlayStation Vita*

Huh...the list goes on. I hope similar things happen to vita after PS4 launch and potential price drop at E3.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *Japan: PlayStation Vita Overtakes Nintendo 3DS As Best Selling Gaming Platform*
> 
> *PlayStation Vita Outsells 3DS in Japan*
> 
> ...



You do realize that all of them refer to the same week and use the same Media-Create report as their source right? Plus, it is almost back to pre-price cut level of sales right now.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

^^ Source please. You mean it sells 12000 units like before now?

This is the worst i could find

Japanese Sales Charts: PlayStation Vita Sinks Back into Second - Push Square

Still fairly competitive. Has a huge software selection waiting to be unleashed though.

Btw , keep the discussion to next gen consoles. This isn't a handheld thread.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

The official website. 14,112 which is almost 12k which it was selling before. 

￾Media Create

I was just pointing out misinformation in your post. No intention to derail thread.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

^^ My post had no misinformation. It was a month older. This was from a week earlier - Media Create Sales: 4/1/13
Waiting for vita to rise in the western and asian markets.

Anyway getting back on track:

*Microsoft employees: We're working on the next-gen Xbox*

I guess they have some interesting tricks up their sleeves. No wonder they are taking their time.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

"Today, 07:39 PM" doesn't count as one month older. 

'Next Xbox Will Not Be Compatible With Second Hand' - NowGamer (new source: Xing Interactive).

I wonder if they will backtrack on this and just do something like authentication upon launch due to the huge backlash against always online.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 23, 2013)

dead5 said:


> 'Next Xbox Will Not Be Compatible With Second Hand' - NowGamer (new source: Xing Interactive).
> 
> I wonder if they will backtrack on this and just do something like authentication upon launch due to the huge backlash against always online.



Already posted the same link in post # 311. You're late. 

Yeah this will be a huge setback. I hope they won't play this card.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 23, 2013)

CDPRED: PS4 is a high end PC.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 24, 2013)

*Nintendo CEO Seen Missing Profit Target as Wii U Founders*

*Nintendo Expecting To Post Significant Losses*

Nintendo should really work on the software side and deliver something unexpected. They should also try and woo many third party developers.
Simply first party development methodology won't do them any good in the coming next-gen race. I don't understand why the hell they didn't go with x86 for wii-u.

Anyways, here's some more:

*Microsoft job listings back up "leaked" Xbox 720 specs*


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 24, 2013)

*www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/130424e.pdf

Nintendo posts 7.099 bn yen net profit. Analysts wrong about Nintendo as usual. They expected to post a 20bn yen loss. 

They didn't go with x86 on the Wii U to keep backwards compatibility with the Wii and because their internal studios had much more experience with this architecture. 

BTW, the Wii U marks the best western 3rd party support they have had since the SNES. Japanese ones like Namco and Atlus and Sega are all aboard. Their FP focus makes sense because historically Nintendo consoles have been driven by FP games and FP games are the best sellers on their consoles.

9 mn Wii U sales forecast for FY 13-14. Something crazy must be underworks for them to expect that. The rumour mill that has largely been accurate so fat agrees with that. 

Welcome to Nintendo of America's Media Site

Iwata becomes NOA CEO to allow NOA to do things on its own rather than just being a NCL puppet. 

Wii U attach rate is 3.8898 meaning that the console is not just breaking even, but is profitable per unit sold. Such a high attach rate(for a console so early in its life) indicates that the casuals/semi-casuals are the one demographic they haven't been able to attract.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 24, 2013)

The weaker yen saved nintendo from another loss. Btw, their operative income suffered a loss of 36.4bn yen from original estimates of 20bn yen.

Yet, they are again forecasting a 55bn yen this year to next. I guess they know what they are doing or having seizures doing so.

Nintendo swings back into profit - Telegraph

Besides that's really not a good enough reason to skip x86. Ninty's competitors also are extremely experienced with the previous RISC architecture.
Maybe they couldn't get to strike a good deal with intel or amd financially. Besides, the kind of games they make won't matter that much for a specific architecture.
It doesn't matter whether its x86 or RISC.

AMD giving them a stone age R700 based gpu, instead of their latest GCN ones might also be an indication of not being able to financially strike a sound deal.
It would have been great if ninty would have atleast bagged a quad core jaguar based cpu with a 7750 class GCN gpu. Atleast it would have had some massive third party support from AAA western studios like CD Projeckt, bungie etc or even japanese ones like Konami , Tango Gameworks etc for their upcoming , most anticipated games. Would have been a nice balance between ninty games and the ones i mention.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 24, 2013)

Shin'en Multimedia working on two Wii U games. 

SuperPhillip Central: SPC Interviews: Manfred Linzner (Shin'en Multimedia)

Nintendo could not go for stronger hardware because they do not have the resources to participate in the pissing contest (of higher specs and lower price) it has become in between Sony and Microsoft. Unlike them they do not have a multimedia/hardware/software arm backing them up in the initial years where they take massive losses. Nintendo's dev teams were already struggling with HD development. Even higher specs and an entirely different architecture would mean that they wouldn't be able to cope at all. I don't really think that games depend on architecture at all. M$ony are expected to take a $100 - $200 loss per console in the initial years. Nintendo can't afford that. It'd be pretty great if they could, but they simply can't. 

I believe that the analysts were aware of the weaker yen when they predicted a 20bn yen loss.  Their operating loss has to do with their recent expansion of their dev teams and creation of new ones, creation of new office space and a massive restructure of the company. Their net assets  increased by 79000 million yen, inline with what you would expect given their current profit.

The main sales drivers of the M$ony come from a PC background and have experience with the x86 architecture too. Nintendo's sales drivers don't. 

The RISC architecture also has the advantage that it makes it easier for them to leverage their 3DS teams to help the Wii U. 

As EAD Tokyo, EAD Group 4, Platinum Games and Monolith Soft have shown, you can create stunning games without the latest hardware. 

Nintendo got the shaft with 3rd party support even when they had competitive hardware, so it wouldn't make sense for them to continue in that path. Nintendo itself has said that it is not in direct competition with M$ony any more. Considering that most third party games released in the next 2-3 years at least will be cross-gen, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to port to the Wii U. The 3rd parties themselves are not interested.

BTW, Tango Gameworks is American, not Japanese.

Edit: "In addition we are planning to more actively support the Japanese software developers in distributing their key titles overseas" and "We plan to concentrate to concentrate on proactively releasing key Nintendo titles from the second half of this year through next year in order to regain momentum for the platform" seem to imply that they are trying to get smaller/reluctant Japanese devs onboard the Wii U so that they can get exclusivity for their in the west, helping drive sales and that they will flood the market with big name IPs like Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Smash, Pikmin and more this fall.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 24, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Shin'en Multimedia working on two Wii U games.
> 
> SuperPhillip Central: SPC Interviews: Manfred Linzner (Shin'en Multimedia)
> 
> Nintendo could not go for stronger hardware because they do not have the resources to participate in the pissing contest (of higher specs and lower price) it has become in between Sony and Microsoft. Unlike them they do not have a multimedia/hardware/software arm backing them up in the initial years where they take massive losses. Nintendo's dev teams were already struggling with HD development. Even higher specs and an entirely different architecture would mean that they wouldn't be able to cope at all. I don't really think that games depend on architecture at all. *M$ony are expected to take a $100 - $200 loss per console in the initial years.* Nintendo can't afford that. It'd be pretty great if they could, but they simply can't.



The bold part is a moot point. That was applicable for ps3 and 360 which used custom ibm architecture for their cpu's. Sony had to fund for the development of cell processor and thus had to incur with the losses per console sold initially. The diodes in the blue ray player were also new and cost more back then. Same isn't going to happen with ps4 or next xbox. Reason is the use of off-shelf parts, procured from AMD, which are far far lower than the initial costs of an ibm custom cpu. In the APU mold, they are not only cheaper to mass produce but also bring new architectural standards. Both are expected to launch their next-gen consoles at profitable prices. Even GDDDR5 rams are cheaper than the xdr ones used in ps3. 

The only two reasons of nintendo backing out of a more conventional path is that:
1. Incapable financially
2. Not necessary for their developing standards.



dead5 said:


> The RISC architecture also has the advantage that it makes it easier for them to leverage their 3DS teams to help the Wii U.



This can be a reason. Have to see some practical examples though.



dead5 said:


> As EAD Tokyo, EAD Group 4, Platinum Games and Monolith Soft have shown, you can create stunning games without the latest hardware.



Well, i have to wait and see how much of a leap bayonetta 2 will be over the original. I don't expect much of a visual difference. But how long the above argument holds has to be seen,
once x86 in console starts to mature.  Will platinum games continue to support wii -u or move on to x86 next-gen. I see a very high possibility of the latter happening.



dead5 said:


> BTW, Tango Gameworks is American, not Japanese.



This is not completely right.



> Tango Gameworks is a Japan-based video game development company located in Tokyo, Japan. It was founded on March 1, 2010 by Shinji Mikami, the creator of the Resident Evil series.[2] Tango Gameworks is a division of ZeniMax Asia.



Being part of an american publisher does not take away their Japanese roots. They are still an all Japanese studio.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 24, 2013)

vickybat said:


> The bold part is a moot point. That was applicable for ps3 and 360 which used custom ibm architecture for their cpu's. Sony had to fund for the development of cell processor and thus had to incur with the losses per console sold initially. The diodes in the blue ray player were also new and cost more back then. Same isn't going to happen with ps4 or next xbox. Reason is the use of off-shelf parts, procured from AMD, which are far far lower than the initial costs of an ibm custom cpu. In the APU mold, they are not only cheaper to mass produce but also bring new architectural standards. Both are expected to launch their next-gen consoles at profitable prices. Even GDDDR5 rams are cheaper than the xdr ones used in ps3.
> 
> The only two reasons of nintendo backing out of a more conventional path is that:
> 1. Incapable financially
> ...



Looks like i was misinformed about Tango. 

IIRC, PS4 equivalent hardware would cost us consumers $800 - $1000, so even with bulk discounts and special rates there is no way the hardware is going to be sold at profit unless Sony is willing to repeat the "$599 US Dollars" fiasco. MS certainly won't want to make the same mistake. You have to factor in manufacturing, assembling and distribution costs before you pronounce the console profitable. 

As I pointed out earlier, Nintendo is financially incapable of taking that kind of loss. 

According to Iwata Asks interviews there is a lot of personnel shuffling between teams and other dev teams are brought in to finish a game to meet its deadlines. Eg. Retro helping finish MK7 in time. Not having to learn a new architecture probably helps with that. Cross platform development of titles is also helped by having the same architecture. Eg. Smash 4 & MH3U. 

I was referring to TW101 when mentioning PG. The 24 FPS SD trailer on youtube doesn't do it justice. Platinum will continue to support the Wii U as long as it is contracted to make games for it. EAD Tokyo and Monolith Soft were able to create stunning games of the Wii's hardware in 2010 so this argument should hold up for quite some time(Unless you claim 97 & 92 on Metacritic are indicative of "Meh" games).

*www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/24/source-next-xbox-reveal-set-for-may-21.aspx

*www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/24/source-next-xbox-reveal-set-for-may-21.aspx


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 24, 2013)

Next Xbox Reveal Is Official On 21st May


----------



## vickybat (Apr 24, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Looks like i was misinformed about Tango.



I know. 



dead5 said:


> IIRC, PS4 equivalent hardware would cost us consumers $800 - $1000, so even with bulk discounts and special rates there is no way the hardware is going to be sold at profit unless Sony is willing to repeat the "$599 US Dollars" fiasco. MS certainly won't want to make the same mistake. You have to factor in manufacturing, assembling and distribution costs before you pronounce the console profitable.As I pointed out earlier, Nintendo is financially incapable of taking that kind of loss.



Well this point is again moot. You simply can't compare the costs of the innards of a mass produced console directly with pc parts. Besides, there is no eight core jaguar chip for consumers. Its a custom design. Well for pc, lets say we combine the ps4 parts, the closest we can go for is an amd fx 8 core cpu, motherboard  with a radeon 7870 gpu , with ram , hdd and psu. They would roughly cost $700-$800. But in ps4, all those things are much smaller and in the form of an SOC with cpu+gpu fused into an APU. Its much cheaper to make and especially mass produce.

There's no way ps4 will be sold at a loss this time, specially with AMD behind this time. Blue-ray drives has also become mainstream these days and are cheaper than before. They are expected to make a profit of $100 per console sold. The design approach is full proof and solid with no flaws. John Carmack gave a thumbs up to the design and approach. That means a lot really. Nintendo had a chance to pull something like that but didn't do it. 

They were too afraid to try something new.

*XBOX Reveal Date*

Finally microsoft made something official. It might have some tricks up its sleeve.


*PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny*

More info about the most anticipated console of the year.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lets do a full price breakdown(extremely generous):

APU - $100 (Minimum)
GDDR5 RAM - ~$120
OS Chip - $15(lower end ARM chip)
Encode Chip - $15(also lower end ARM chip)
Blu Ray - $20
Hard Drive - $40
USB Ports and other I/O. - $15
Network Chip - $10
Dualshock 4 - $30(DS3 Cost + 5 for touchpad)
PS Eye - $5(lower end webcam)
Headset - $2
Cables - $5

Total $367. 

This does not include the price of the Motherboard, PSU, Fans(I doubt it will be liquid cooled), Case, Packaging, Manuals, Assembly, Transport, Q.A., Customs, Licensing Fees(Codecs, HDCP compliance, patents etc.) and anything I may have missed and assumes that manufacturers will take minimal profit on products supplied(unlikely). 

Once you factor in all that there is no way the PS4 will be initially sold at a profit, let alone a $100 profit.  

RAM cost estimated from:
*www.abload.de/img/gpuq3280ufv.png

Src: Mercury Research report on GPU manufacturing cost.

Nobody said the architecture is bad, so that point is irrelevant here. It is as irrelevant as saying that Kamiya has given a thumbs up to the approach of the Wii U.

Totally nothing new:

*www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wii-U.jpg

As I've pointed out before Nintendo is incapable of participating in this kind of pissing contest so they choose to differentiate themselves.

David gibson live tweeting Nintendo investors meet.



> Nintendo  wiiu momentum is lost already, want continuous software releases and more  important that software has high satisfaction



*twitter.com/gibbogame/status/327260169912348672


----------



## vickybat (Apr 25, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Lets do a full price breakdown(extremely generous):
> 
> APU - $100 (Minimum)
> GDDR5 RAM - ~$120
> ...



Again a moot point. The list is FUD. There are no ARM chips in the PS4. Besides, the ram listing you gave is pretty old. GDDR5 ram prices has fallen since.
Even taking your total expenditure of $350 (round), if sony sells PS4 at $450, isn't there a profit of $100? The new ps eye btw is not low end. It comes with 2 cameras capable of 720p.
The move controller of ps3 is totally supported here with even better sensitivity.

PS4 price in UK; how much will the PlayStation 4 cost? - PC Advisor

The pricing maybe more or divided among different SKU's. Don't know about the exact profit amount ( only sony knows) but its certain that PS4 will
not sell at a loss like the PS3 did initially in per units sold.

Read the earlier link i gave. Its a very technical one comprising of 3 pages. It comes from ps4's lead architect "Mark Cerny" in an interview.

Posting it again:

*PlayStation 4: The complete tech breakdown from Mark Cerny*

Here's some more:

*Iwata Takes Over Nintendo of America as Projected Earnings Fall Short*



Spoiler






> But with the PlayStation 4 and Xbox Infinity looming, how will Nintendo fare in 2013? As indicated, the company will likely showcase an arsenal of software this June at E3 2013, but will it be enough to distract console gamers away from the new hardware offered by rivals? *There's a good chance the answer is no.*






I really hope that my poll thread of wii u being another dreamcast does not hold true. Talk about being completely outclassed.

In other news:

*Microsoft says: Next Xbox a “Real” Taste of the Future*


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Again a moot point. The list is FUD. There are no ARM chips in the PS4. Besides, the ram listing you gave is pretty old. GDDR5 ram prices has fallen since.
> Even taking your total expenditure of $350 (round), if sony sells PS4 at $450, isn't there a profit of $100? The new ps eye btw is not low end. It comes with 2 cameras capable of 720p.
> The move controller of ps3 is totally supported here with even better sensitivity.
> 
> ...



How is the list FUD? 

I used lower end ARM chips and a low end webcam to estimate the cost of them. You might have noticed that i used $120 as an estimate instead of $150 to account for the drop in manufacturing cost. I never even mentioned move, so where does it come up
According to you the PSEye camera should increase the cost even more. 

You may have missed this part of my statement so let me quote it here again:



> This does not include the price of the Motherboard, PSU, Fans(I doubt it will be liquid cooled), Case, Packaging, Manuals, Assembly, Transport, Q.A., Customs, Licensing Fees(Codecs, HDCP compliance, patents etc.) and anything I may have missed and assumes that manufacturers will take minimal profit on products supplied(unlikely).



Unless you are assuming everything in the quoted statement will be provided to Sony for free, they will be exempt from licensing fees and customs and manufacturers won't try and make a profit off the PS4 parts i see no way it will be sold at a profit, let alone a profit of $100. 

If you followed todays financial meet you see that Nintendo admitted that it has failed with the Wii U and there was a clear implication that the console will be put into the backburner until they can get software out for it and rebuild momentum for the console(Something Sony has failed to admit for the Vita). As i've explained in the poll thread, Nintendo is in an entirely different situation from Sega and the Wii U won't end up like the Dreamcast. Don't underestimate the brand appeal of Nintendo's franchises(Don't overestimate them either). Nintendo's policy of quality before deadlines is what screwed them over this launch. They have had only two Nintendo games out on the console and the next one won't come out until August. You don't expect a console to be driven on that, do you?


----------



## vickybat (Apr 25, 2013)

^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.

Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
> 80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.
> 
> Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.



Believe it or not, discussing whether a next-gen console will be sold at a profit or loss does count as Next-gen discussion. 

Do name some "top analysts" who have said that the PS4 will be sold at a profit. 

You claim my claims are FUD but don't explain why. How is my speculation off the charts? 

If that claim is referring to my estimated prices, they are on the lower end rather than the higher. 

When I claimed that Nintendo couldn't afford to take a $100-$200 loss per console, like M$ony can, you claimed that the PS4 would be sold at a profit(and a $100 at that). I was simply pointing out that it won't be and stood by and defended my claim. 

TBQH, from my point of view it looks like you are simply trying to sidestep the discussion at this point.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Don't spoil the thread mate. We will see if sony sells the PS4 at a profit or loss once its released and the prices are finalized.
> 80% people are saying it won't suffer a loss this time including top analysts. You say otherwise with completely off the charts speculation and FUD stuff.
> 
> Leave the profit/loss and sales discussion here and discuss technical material and post some useful news if possible. Will be quite helpful to this thread that way instead of getting locked for dubious arguments.




Dude,do your top anaylsts include Micheal Pachter  ?


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Dude,do your top anaylsts include Micheal Pachter  ?



Pachter can be considered a 'top analyst'. You can safely assume that whatever he says will not be true, and chances are that the opposite will be true instead.  

On topic:

Nintendo: Wii U has “lost momentum” due to release schedule - Gematsu


----------



## vickybat (Apr 25, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Believe it or not, discussing whether a next-gen console will be sold at a profit or loss does count as Next-gen discussion.



Oh really.  You some kind of a marketing guy or some marketing VP. Because all your posts in this forum are related to sales and stuff.




dead5 said:


> Do name some "top analysts" who have said that the PS4 will be sold at a profit.



Look it up yourself. Do some homework and don't expect to be spoon-fed all the time. Try analyzing and answering your own questions as of why 
ps4 won't sell at a loss. Can you differentiate the differences between a motherboard/PCB  and an SOC? If you can, you could know why PS4 is so much talked about.



dead5 said:


> You claim my claims are FUD but don't explain why. How is my speculation off the charts?



Oh your claims are indeed FUD and off charts. The reason is you don't read up and always after sales, marketing and PR stuff.
The PS4 isn't your conventional pc so that you can assemble parts and compare mindless prices. I also gave you an example in your own analogy that if the console's cost price is $350 , and the selling price is $450 ( huge possibility), isn't the profit going to be $100? If you can't understand simple maths, its your problem.

You fail to understand the difference between a motherboard and an SOC and thus you have crappy reasons. Do you know PS3 had a motherboard but PS4 has an SOC? It uses mobile parts including
the cpu and gpu. That's what that link i gave explains and much more. That explains the low cost. A mass produced custom SOC is way less to manufacture than you think with lower fabrication methods. This time its AMD and not IBM and the former is an expert in making low cost microprocessors. Outsourcing the main components from a single vendor is also financially cheap since the orders are in lot. Costs are easily covered. 

PS3 was sold at a loss because sony spent too much in the development of cell and those parts were bulky ( had a 90nm fabrication) and were not mobile parts. It was a custom design and not off-shelf parts. It had an XDR memory sub-system. Do realize how expensive XDR was back then? It was not a common design like x86 is. How many times do i have to explain this? Cell could also do vertex shading, being a RISC cpu. It was a complex design and was very expensive to make in the early days. Don't judge industry by history. 

Transistors used in an SOC are cheap, coz the overall material cost is low. 





dead5 said:


> If that claim is referring to my estimated prices, they are on the lower end rather than the higher.



Your estimation charts are again FUD and completely off the charts. The APU you wrote are not part of the desktop apu's you see. Its a customized apu made in huge numbers and not for multiple OEM use as well. Its just for Sony. 
Selling parts to multiple OEM's also has a hidden cost. Here, there are no such costs as parts are outsourced from a single vendor by a single company.
See, such discussions in this thread are definitely off-topic.



dead5 said:


> When I claimed that Nintendo couldn't afford to take a $100-$200 loss per console, like M$ony can, you claimed that the PS4 would be sold at a profit(and a $100 at that). I was simply pointing out that it won't be and stood by and defended my claim.
> 
> TBQH, from my point of view it looks like you are simply trying to sidestep the discussion at this point.



lol nintendo again. Nobody cares what they can afford or not. And about you defending your so called claim, i reckon it was complete rubbish.
If you can't understand the benefits of x86 hardware from a direct cost-cost perspective, let alone its real life coding advantages, its really a waste of time to argue with you.

And i never sidestep from any discussion.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> Dude,do your top anaylsts include *Micheal Pachter*  ?



No, not that moron. His analogies are bullsh!t these days.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Oh really.  You some kind of a marketing guy or some marketing VP. Because all your posts in this forum are related to sales and stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Back your claims up with citations. Why should I look to back _your_ claims up, genius?

Claiming that I don't read up(I do) doesn't make my claims FUD or off the charts, genius.

Are you trying to imply that the PS4 is much talked about because of its SoC, genius?

The PS4 costs less to make than the PS3 initially did but it will also be sold for less("599 US Dollars"), genius. 

And as I pointed out that is a simple, incomplete, extremely generous parts list that assumes that the suppliers won't try and make a profit on their products, genius. 

$150(avg. price of an OEM APU in the same range as the PS4 one) > $100, genius.

Since we are discussing the price of a component of a next gen console it isn't off topic, genius. 

Don't even try to claim that the PS4 will come without a cooling system, won't have a case ,won't be packed,will have no manuals , assembly will be done for free,it will magically transport itself from China/wherever it it made to around the world(for free), won't have any Q.A., customs won't be paid, patent licensing fees won't be paid, it won't be HDCP compliant and it won't have the ability to play popular codecs like MP3s etc. and that the suppliers won't try and make a profit off the parts the supply to Sony, genius.


----------



## vickybat (Apr 25, 2013)

^^ Yawn....

Utter lol stuff. Grow up and learn to differentiate between a motherboard and an SOC.
No wonder your posts does not contain a single technical stuff but all PR material.

And finally, you admit that i'm a genius.  And cooling system......:what now, is it gonna cost $100  
No wonder you don't have a clue. And oh yes, you do read, i mean read PR stuff, sales charts and all that.

Oh... i really had a lot of fun. Nice.....

Ok back to news:

*Nintendo Wii U Fails to Achieve Targets: 3.45 Million Units Sold During Launch Window.*

*You Can't Build A PS4: Why Sony's Next Console Is Truly Next-Gen And Your PC Isn't*



Spoiler






> Actually, I doubt it. Unlike your gaming rig, Sony’s CPU/GPU combo chip is much cheaper to manufacture. The heating solution for one chip is also cheaper, as is the fact that no operating system overhead exists. Indeed, all the parts—save for the RAM—should come at a pretty reasonable price. I’m not sure if Sony is taking a loss, but from what I’ve read it doesn’t appear to be the case—or at the very least, the loss won’t be dramatic. Then again, we don’t know the price of the machine yet, so this is guess work.






That's one view of an analyst. Do i have to name more.


----------



## heidi2521 (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Yawn....



That doesn't refute my claims, genius.



vickybat said:


> Utter lol stuff. Grow up and learn to differentiate between a motherboard and an SOC.



Just because i accidentally wrote MoBo in one post doesn't mean I don't know the difference in between MoBo and SoC genius.



vickybat said:


> No wonder your posts does not contain a single technical stuff but all PR material.



How do my posts contain PR material, genius? 




vickybat said:


> And finally, you admit that i'm a genius.  And cooling system......:what now, is it gonna cost $100



A  cooling system isn't the only thing I mentioned, genius.



vickybat said:


> No wonder you don't have a clue. And oh yes, you do read, i mean read PR stuff, sales charts and all that.



I do read technical write ups, and analyses of the consoles, genius.



vickybat said:


> Oh... i really had a lot of fun. Nice.....





vickybat said:


> Ok back to news:
> 
> *Nintendo Wii U Fails to Achieve Targets: 3.45 Million Units Sold During Launch Window.*
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

A user blog on the forbes website does not mean that he is a 'top analyst', genius. 

And $500 >> $100, genius.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (Apr 25, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *You Can't Build A PS4: Why Sony's Next Console Is Truly Next-Gen And Your PC Isn't
> *
> 
> That's one view of an analyst. Do i have to name more.



The author of that article......
How dare he...........
Compare the mobile CPU/GPU of the PS4 to a full fledged CPU/GPU of a PC........


----------



## vickybat (Apr 26, 2013)

Spoiler






dead5 said:


> That doesn't refute my claims, genius.



Your claims are lol.





dead5 said:


> Just because i accidentally wrote MoBo in one post doesn't mean I don't know the difference in between MoBo and SoC genius.



You don't know the difference. Your posts prove it.





dead5 said:


> How do my posts contain PR material, genius?



Find it out yourself. Nobody has the time to make sense out of your posts.






dead5 said:


> A cooling system isn't the only thing I mentioned, genius.



Yeah you mentioned a lot of lol stuff. Cooling system was one of them.





dead5 said:


> I do read technical write ups, and analyses of the consoles, genius.



Oh really? How come your posts doesn't reflect that? If you did, you wouldn't be arguing like a little kid with me.
I posted a direct write up from the lead architect himself. But no, you are too busy in proving your lol points.

Do you know what a closed box model is?








dead5 said:


> A user blog on the forbes website does not mean that he is a 'top analyst', genius.
> 
> *And $500 >> $100, genius*.



That forbes blog makes a lot of sense than your posts ever will.
Another nonsense post, especially the bold part. Why am i even surprised. Your posts never made sense.





CommanderShawnzer said:


> The author of that article......
> How dare he...........
> Compare the mobile CPU/GPU of the PS4 to a full fledged CPU/GPU of a PC........



An article probably coming up. Hold your horses.

****************************************************************************

In other news:

*Is The Wii U Making Nintendo Suicidal?*

Slowly moving towards dreamcast.

*PS4 price hinted by Sony, console will appeal to 'gamers in the broadest sense'*

*RUMOR: Next Xbox Retails For $500*

*PS4 PlayGo Explained, Gamers Impatiently Listen*


----------



## HCgamer101 (Apr 28, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Lets do a full price breakdown(extremely generous):
> 
> APU - $100 (Minimum)
> GDDR5 RAM - ~$120
> ...



i di not wish to spoil the temperament of this thread, but i wish to point out a few anomalies in your statement :

1. Os / encode chips are on the mainboard. Mass produced. Max cost 5-10$ 

2. for 40$ Sony could equip the ps4 with a 1TB hdd 

3. cables wont cost 5$

4. Heat and power solutions are very easy do design and manufacture because of lower heat generation ( single solution ) and low power requirement. 

I would say, that the total would come to about 350$ , however if my estimations are wrong the max loss the ps4 will face will be 15~50$

another point you may be getting wrong is about the price of the ram. The ps4 has 8GB of GDDR5. This can be 512MBx16 (very likely) soon be shifted to 1GBx8 modules in the first release and in the next revision be 2GBx4 the gpu's you have mentioned dont use 1GB / 512 MB memory modules. The denser the memory module, the higher the cost to manufacture it. Since new generation of video cards will use either 1GB or 2GB modules we can expect the price to be much lower by the time the ps4 launches.

EDIT :

+1 @ vickybat

brilliantly explained by vickybat. what i was trying to say


----------



## vickybat (Apr 29, 2013)

^^ Thanks mate. You did a pretty good job yourself. 

Time for some tech news:

*Mark Cerny Comments On PS4 Bottlenecks And How Devs Can Overcome*

Mark Cerny seems to be the talk of the town. Never seen a lead architect being highlighted in this fashion. I've become a huge fan of this guy.


----------



## vickybat (May 2, 2013)

*Shuhei Yoshida on the making of PlayStation 4*


----------



## RCuber (May 3, 2013)

Xbox Infinity?

New Xbox Console Named Xbox Infinity?
*cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-02-at-15.06.58.png


----------



## vickybat (May 4, 2013)

Change of plans:

*Next Xbox to be Called Fusion and Why Microsoft Picked That Sub-Name*

Some more news:

Nothing seems to be going good for this console lately.

*Wii U now Confirmed to be Hacked, First Game Dumped*

Finally, the battle between heavyweights is starting to show:

*The Key Split Between Sony's PS4 And Microsoft's Next Xbox Is Starting To Emerge*


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 5, 2013)

infinite entertainment. not games


----------



## heidi2521 (May 6, 2013)

Microsoft: Next Xbox will work even when your Internet doesn&rsquo;t | Ars Technica

Instant No Button! Star Wars funnies FTW!

*nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg


----------



## vickybat (May 7, 2013)

*The Next Xbox Won’t Require An Internet Connection*

*Sony Planning “Some Intriguing Game Announcements” This Week*

*Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design*

*Playstation Exclusive "Agent" To Debut On PS4; E3 2013 Reveal?*



Nintendo might find themselves in dire straits soon since the competition is really starting to heat up. Xbox infinite is coming strong along with ps4.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 7, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *The Next Xbox Won’t Require An Internet Connection*
> 
> *Sony Planning “Some Intriguing Game Announcements” This Week*
> 
> ...



FTFY. The Vita isn't heating up any time soon. And Nintendo does have the ability to turn the Wii U around as i have shown in another thread. 

*abload.de/img/frostbitewiiufzucz.jpg

The last tweet. Burn!!!

Reggie Fils-Aime and Shigeru Miyamoto to Host Pre-E3 Presentation - News - Nintendo World Report

I consider NWR to be the only reliable Nintendo focused site on the web. 

Pach-Attack! Video - Pachter's Xbox Rumor Ratings | GameTrailers

I hope that the curse of the reverse-Pachterdamus comes true(or not for a few points).

You are late with the no always online info


----------



## vickybat (May 8, 2013)

^^ You should stop using offensive abbreviations in constructive and informative threads ( You very well know what i mean). 
If the information doesn't suit you or is out of phase, give them a pass before writing dubious comments.


----------



## anirbandd (May 8, 2013)

^


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 8, 2013)

^


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

*Is This Naughty Dog’s PlayStation 4 Game?*

*Sony asked Bungie’s feedback on DualShock 4*

*Announcement about the future of Gran Turismo on May 15*

*Next-Gen Graphics Will 'Blow You Away'*



*Just Cause devs: Wii U dev kits “collecting dust,” no plans to develop for the console* 





Spoiler






> "No. Not at the moment. *My kids play “Skylanders Giants” on Wii U. It’s pretty much the only dealings I have with the console…*We actually had some develop (dev kits) consoles that just collected dust. It’s a little sad, because we were supposed wanted to do something. I think it is a cool platform, but right now it’s not just up to us. We want the game to release an as wide as possible".


----------



## anirbandd (May 9, 2013)

^





> "No. Not at the moment. My kids play “Skylanders Giants” on Wii U. It’s pretty much the only dealings I have with the console…We actually had some develop (dev kits) consoles that just collected dust. It’s a little sad, because we were supposed wanted to do something. I think it is a cool platform, but right now it’s not just up to us. We want the game to release an as wide as possible".



epic insult


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

^^ 

Ok time for an interesting article. 

*The PS4 Does PC Gaming A Big Favor*

An interesting read and i found all the basic points to be completely valid.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

Capcom: Higher Sales Didn’t Boost Profits, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate on Wii U is a Smash Hit | GenGAME

Capcom predicts next-gen development costs to “soar” | VG247


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

*Six months in, is the Wii U dead in the water?*

*Next-gen EA games will skip Wii U due to performance issues with Frostbite engine*

Seems like its on the path of getting dreamcasted soon.


----------



## RCuber (May 9, 2013)

I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

RCuber said:


> I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.



Exactly, its more like a gimmick. They have run out of all ideas. 

*Sony Adding Indie Games Section to PlayStation Store*

This is a brilliant move btw. Supporting indie devs will bring quality content in the likes of journey, braid and super meat boy.
Sony is making the platform extremely diverse. Microsoft is also likely to follow the same philosophy.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

RCuber said:


> I didn't like the Wii U controller/logic in the first place.



What did you not like about it? It does everything a traditional controller can do and more. It is quite light and barring the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, is the most ergonomic controller I've ever used.

EA implies DICE is horrible at coding/optimization

Next-gen EA games will skip Wii U due to performance issues with Frostbite engine

After all coders from Crytek, Ubisoft, Criterion etc. have been able to make their engine run on the Wii U with no drops/ some improvements over the PS360. EA wouldn't lie about the actual reason, would they?

Shadow of the Eternals( runs on Cryengine 3), an Eternal Darkness spiritual successor is headed to the Wii U.

Eternal Darkness Spiritual Successor Shadow of the Eternals Headed to Wii U, PC - IGN


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

Shadow of the Eternals: The first game that shows off next gen graphics on Wii U? | IGN Boards

The comments in the link are interesting. 

Game is completely dumbed down on wii-u and massively scaled down. Given the right hardware , cryengine 3 has far more potential to shine.
This has already been seen in the comparison of crysis 3 in pc and current gen consoles.Still something is better than nothing. 

Frostbite 3 is a different beast though and EA is in no plans scaling its engine down and is keen on sticking with x86 development standards.
The BF4 demo makes crysis 3 look like last gen.

P.S Crytek has yet to bring their next-gen game engine. Maybe after a couple of years into next-gen development.




Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/vFBYtgy.jpg

*If this is the best wii -u can do, then it better start packing up soon.*

*i.imgur.com/18QmSZk.jpg

*An upcoming ps3 title named "The last of us". Honestly, the graphics are of next gen standards.
That's one heck of a feat to pull off.*

*i.imgur.com/yX1dfiR.jpg

*Same goes for halo 4. Impressive optimizations from microsoft's 343 industries.*


----------



## darkv0id (May 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Shadow of the Eternals: The first game that shows off next gen graphics on Wii U? | IGN Boards
> 
> The comments in the link are interesting.
> 
> ...



^Got to say I somewhat agree with this. My own opinion echoes the ones that have been posted on that thread. Sure the graphics look nice, somewhat better than many games on the 360 and PS3, but they are nowhere near next gen.

But there's no way of telling if DICE want to be genuinely uncompromising.... or if they are just being lazy. After all, graphics don't affect the gameplay... mostly. If they wanted they could have downscaled the graphics and released the games on the WiiU.

EDIT: I've been lurking on this thread since it started, and well... I don't know whether to be amused or sad. Every single developer keeps blabbering about next gen *graphics*. Almost no one is giving any indication of what they going to do in terms of next gen gameplay. Makes me unhappy.


----------



## RCuber (May 9, 2013)

dead5 said:


> What did you not like about it? It does everything a traditional controller can do and more. It is quite light and barring the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, is the most ergonomic controller I've ever used.



TBH, I have not used the Wii U, I just didn't get the point of including a touch screen i.e., taking the eye off the main screen to look at the secondary screen. 

having said that I can change my views once I use a Wii U.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> ^Got to say I somewhat agree with this. My own opinion echoes the ones that have been posted on that thread. Sure the graphics look nice, somewhat better than what we've seen on the 360 and PS3, but they are nowhere near next gen.
> 
> But there's no way of telling if DICE want to be genuinely uncompromising.... or if they are just being lazy. After all, graphics don't affect the gameplay... mostly. If they wanted they could have downscaled the graphics and released the games on the WiiU.



I was claiming that EA is implying that they are horrible at code optimization because they claim that they ran into performance issues with the FB2 itself. 

I doubt that DICE is being uncompromising. They are scaling the engine down unlike a certain genius on my ignore list claims.

Otherwise you wouldn't have this.

Battlefield 4 - Xbox 360 - IGN

Plus, if the latest chiphell leak is true the PS4 will be out powered by PCs even before it releases.


----------



## darkv0id (May 9, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I was claiming that EA is implying that they are horrible at code optimization because they claim that they ran into performance issues with the FB2 itself.



Well.. that's another of putting it. Anyway, I don't know a thing about game engines and hardware architecture, so opinion isn't worth much.



dead5 said:


> Plus, if the latest chiphell leak is true the PS4 will be out powered by PCs even before it releases.



This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

RCuber said:


> TBH, I have not used the Wii U, I just didn't get the point of including a touch screen i.e., taking the eye off the main screen to look at the secondary screen.
> 
> having said that I can change my views once I use a Wii U.



Well, the second screen truly shines in multiplayer . Asymmetric multiplayer is a ton of fun and even in symmetric situations like in Tekken and Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed having the whole screen to yourself is pretty good. Then there are the co-op opportunities it provides like in games like NSMBU, Pikmin Adventure and Metroid Blast. 

In singleplayer the second screen is being used in multiple ways that help/enhance the gameplay like as a quick inventory access, environment scanning/interacting system, quick map viewing, batputers and communicators, info access etc. It is a bit like the DS. You look at one screen most of the time and the second screen is used to enhance your experience. The gamepad also has Off-TV play letting me hunt monsters while my sister watches Grey's Anatomy. In some games the gamepad is used as the main screen with the TV providing a quick overview of what is happening. 

It allows for removal of HUD elements from the TV screen making it look less cluttered and letting the environment shine out even more. 

The touchscreen also allows unique gameplay like in Murphy's Dungeon, The Wonderful 101, and much better accuracy/faster response while chucking Pikmin around. It also has great potential in menu driven RPGs. 

I agree that the Gamepad is difficult to 'get' without using it, not unlike when people saw the DS for the first time. I myself didn't 'get' it when I first saw it, but since the console had enough games I wanted to play I ended up buying it.


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

The kind of custom hardware designed by sony and amd is one of the finest the industry has ever seen.
Technical information in this thread has been overlooked mostly by self proclaimed mindless fanboys with no insight into reality whatsoever.

The gpu inside PS4 is nothing like the desktop gpu's we use and is heavily customized to support HSA. Me and cilus are actually writing an article to clear the views of members here about the PS4 being inferior because they mistook its gpu to be a mere 7870 derivative, which its not. To outperform something like that, it will take atleast two years for PC to catch up and until it starts supporting HSA standards and interrupt control the ps4 and next xbox will bring. Mark cerny's interview was extremely technical so its taking a bit of time for us to put things in place.

*Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design*

Nintendo knows this and thus backed out. The developers know this and thus avoiding the wii-u. The console is doomed until nintendo does something unthinkable ( extremely unlikely).


----------



## RCuber (May 9, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Well, the second screen truly shines in multiplayer . Asymmetric multiplayer is a ton of fun and even in symmetric situations like in Tekken and Sonic and All Stars Racing Transformed having the whole screen to yourself is pretty good. Then there are the co-op opportunities it provides like in games like NSMBU, Pikmin Adventure and Metroid Blast.
> 
> In singleplayer the second screen is being used in multiple ways that help/enhance the gameplay like as a quick inventory access, environment scanning/interacting system, quick map viewing, batputers and communicators, info access etc. It is a bit like the DS. You look at one screen most of the time and the second screen is used to enhance your experience. The gamepad also has Off-TV play letting me hunt monsters while my sister watches Grey's Anatomy. In some games the gamepad is used as the main screen with the TV providing a quick overview of what is happening.
> 
> ...



time to go on a Wii U demo hunt. as said before will reevaluate the controller after having a proper demo. lets get back to the discussion. 

PS: anyone in Bangalore having a Wii U?


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

RCuber said:


> time to go on a Wii U demo hunt. as said before will reevaluate the controller after having a proper demo. lets get back to the discussion.
> 
> PS: anyone in Bangalore having a Wii U?



You'll struggle to find a wii-u in india, let alone bengaluru. 
Wii-u has no official presence in india. Only 3ds is available but at higher import costs.
Did you own any consoles before mate?


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> Well.. that's another of putting it. Anyway, I don't know a thing about game engines and hardware architecture, so opinion isn't worth much.
> 
> 
> 
> This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.



Thats my concern too. Considering that most of the blockbusters coming up are cross gen there is little incentive to buy next gen consoles. Without much of an install base on next gen consoles there will be little incentive to make a title next gen exclusive. It is a vicious cycle that won't be broken without significant money hats by M$ony. Except the most extreme graphics snob(who probably are members of the PC gaming master race) very few will pay 20,000 - 25,000 just to play a slightly better looking GTA V. Considering that games like Tomb Raider barely break even and the fact that next gen costs will be much greater it doesn't look too good for diversity/experimental gameplay and massive, well populated open worlds. To profit, everybody will be betting on the same kind of blockbuster. Considering that there hasn't been any rise in the internal rendering resolution games like the Tales series will not look any better on the PS4 and they barely look any better that the PS2/GC on the PS3 anyway. 


We may see a continuation of the trend where massive/open/experimental games continue to move to handhelds where they are significantly cheaper to make and easier to profit upon. 

Trying to make something like Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy 7 would be suicidal on the western next gen consoles today. Either they would get mauled for not looking as good or wouldn't break even due to the massive production costs. Instead we see similar games like Bravely Default and P4G coming up on the 3DS and PS Vita.


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> This is what worries me. As I pointed out in my edit, almost every developer is playing the "next gen graphics" as their trumpcard, with almost no focus on showcasing what they are doing about next-gen gameplay, I wonder what they they are going to do when the PC makes their "next-gen" graphics look outdated.



Well it shouldn't be much of a worry. Gameplay and interactive options are already covered. Motion and gesture controls are extremely enhanced in these next-gen systems. The playstation eye no has two cameras for increased depth and motion tracking. The light bar mechanism on DS4 is going to work wonder sin FPS titles too as claimed by Destiny's developer "Bungie". Besides  the old move controllers also work the same way. The integration of touchpad is a more sensible decision than a touchscreen and more of its applications will be unveiled at E3, so stay tuned. 

Talk about microsoft, you must have already heard about illumiroom. Rumors are that they'll also make way into pc. It has the capability to project the entire game world in 3d into the living room.
The concept is nothing less than revolutionary. These are the gameplay options next-gen promises.

Actually this time, pc and next-gen consoles ( except wii-u) aren't exactly competitors. They have same development standards and philosophies considering the underlying hardware.
Nintendo is the odd one out and thus its future seems skeptical to most.

About that previous comment on why battlefield 4 is coming to the xbox 360 (scaled down) and not wii-u, the answer lies in the sdk standards.
Microsoft sdk's ( even sony) are far more dev friendly now and tapping into their architecture is now easy. Its all about low level access and efficient communication with low level hardware.

The kind of games nintendo makes, its api standards are inferior to what microsoft and sony use ( direct x and libgcm). Thus there are performance issues with the wii-u in advanced engines.

*asia.gamespot.com/news/tomb-raider-sets-franchise-sales-record-6406183

The point about tomb raider barely breaking even is completely moot and its actually a pita to compare it with bravely default which is japan centric.
A global audience is needed for a franchise to be even considered successful and final fantasy is just that. 300,000 copies makes a title relatively successful in a constrained environment but not as a whole. Limited audience TBH.


----------



## darkv0id (May 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Well it shouldn't be much of a worry. Gameplay and interactive options are already covered. Motion and gesture controls are extremely enhanced in these next-gen systems. The playstation eye no has two cameras for increased depth and motion tracking. The light bar mechanism on DS4 is going to work wonder sin FPS titles too as claimed by Destiny's developer "Bungie". Besides  the old move controllers also work the same way. The integration of touchpad is a more sensible decision than a touchscreen and more of its applications will be unveiled at E3, so stay tuned.
> 
> Talk about microsoft, you must have already heard about illumiroom. Rumors are that they'll also make way into pc. It has the capability to project the entire game world in 3d into the living room.
> The concept is nothing less than revolutionary. These are the gameplay options next-gen promises.



I find stuff like the Illumiroom and Oculus Rift quite fascinating... however they aren't what I personally consider an important part of my gameplay experience, but that's just me.

What do I want, when I mean better gameplay? Simply put, I mean I want better games.

I want a world that feels organic, where my actions genuinely matter. Where people have complex, layered behavior, and are not mere cardboard cutouts. I want a really huge world, with really huge places. I want Skyrim, but this time I want Whiterun to have 200 NPCs, not 20. If these next-gen consoles are really as powerful as they claim to be, that's where I want that power to go. Also, I want stories that will make me think. Stuff like Planescape: Torment and The Witcher 2. 

I realize that you may very well be correct, and I may be in the minority, but new control methods and visual options are only a small part of what I consider next-gen gameplay.


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> I find stuff like the Illumiroom and Oculus Rift quite fascinating... however they aren't what I personally consider an important part of my gameplay experience, but that's just me.
> 
> What do I want, when I mean better gameplay? Simply put, I mean I want better games.
> 
> ...



Well you aren't at all wrong buddy. The points you've put actually counts and matters big time. This is what next gen systems are destined to deliver. Considering the sheer compute power and multi core architecture, expanding the game world into massive environments is inevitable. Witcher 3 is also coming with the same insight. Its gonna be a huge open world true to the next-gen sense.
This is where the compute power of "true" next gen systems will come in handy. The ability to render more in real time.

The next elder scrolls title will definitely have 200 NPC's instead of 20. These were the limitations of current gen systems, which the next gen systems are destined to break through.
Check out the development progress of bungie's destiny. An FPS with rpg elements, coupled with massive environments. That's next gen stuff for me.


----------



## darkv0id (May 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Well you aren't at all wrong buddy. The points you've put actually counts and matters big time. This is what next gen systems are destined to deliver. Considering the sheer compute power and multi core architecture, expanding the game world into massive environments is inevitable. Witcher 3 is also coming with the same insight. Its gonna be a huge open world true to the next-gen sense.
> This is where the compute power of "true" next gen systems will come in handy. The ability to render more in real time.
> 
> The next elder scrolls title will definitely have 200 NPC's instead of 20. These were the limitations of current gen systems, which the next gen systems are destined to break through.
> Check out the development progress of bungie's destiny. An FPS with rpg elements, coupled with massive environments. That's next gen stuff for me.



I do have high hopes of The Witcher 3 and Destiny.... here's hoping more devs craft their games with the same care and passion as Bungie and CDPR.


----------



## RCuber (May 9, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You'll struggle to find a wii-u in india, let alone bengaluru.
> Wii-u has no official presence in india. Only 3ds is available but at higher import costs.
> Did you own any consoles before mate?



Nope.. PC Gamer.. but planing to buy a bluray player in future. so based on cost of the next gen consoles I might go for which ever is cheaper...


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

RCuber said:


> Nope.. PC Gamer.. but planing to buy a bluray player in future. so based on cost of the next gen consoles I might go for which ever is cheaper...



Well for a blueray player, wii-u is out of contention coz it lacks one. The PS3 ,PS4 and next xbox are the ones to sport one.
Pricing will be obviously higher than a standalone blueray player. If you want a cheap one to play BD movies, you might want to have a look at these:

Philips BDP3380/12 Blu Ray Player - Philips: Flipkart.com

Philips BDP2900 Blu Ray Player - Philips: Flipkart.com

Sony BDP-S190 Blu Ray Player - Sony: Flipkart.com

You might find the sony one cheaper in retail sony outlets.


*Back to topic:*

*PlayStation 4 And Next-Gen Xbox Games Won’t Appear On Wii U Because Duh*


----------



## Cilus (May 9, 2013)

Buddy, I think next gen Game play is going to be an inherrent part of the next gen Graphics. When people are talking about the next gen graphics quality, they're actually pointing out about the hardware capabilities and the new models and architectures used in it. As a result very powerful AI codes and game intelligence logics, as well as advanced gameplay models can be implemented which was tough to optimize in the older architecture and their imiting processing powers.
The new consoles (except Wii) are not only a 8 Core Processor along with a dedicated and powerful GPU, they are something different, a move to the next generation HSA implementation which offers plenty of possibilities.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 9, 2013)

Masaru Kato confirms the P$4 will be sold at a loss.

Looks like they will lose about $100 unlike $400 for the PS3.



Cilus said:


> Buddy, I think next gen Game play is going to be an inherrent part of the next gen Graphics. When people are talking about the next gen graphics quality, they're actually pointing out about the hardware capabilities and the new models and architectures used in it. As a result very powerful AI codes and game intelligence logics, as well as advanced gameplay models can be implemented which was tough to optimize in the older architecture and their imiting processing powers.
> The new consoles (except *Wii*) are not only a 8 Core Processor along with a dedicated and powerful GPU, they are something different, a move to the next generation HSA implementation which offers plenty of possibilities.



I don't think a 7 year console counts as new


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Masaru Kato confirms the P$4 will be sold at a loss.
> 
> Looks like they will lose about $100 unlike $400 for the PS3.



I don't know how the heck you figured those numbers with the context of that link. The way i see it kato was a bit on the pessimistic side which is understandable for a console with extreme high hopes. There will be minimal losses and i wouldn't be surprised if its a profit actually.
And yes, do care to explain about that $100 loss with respect to the context of that link only and not your assumptions. 



dead5 said:


> I don't think a 7 year console counts as new



And cilus meant the wii-u only, not the 7 year old soon to be retired wii. The wii-u is devoid of any HSA features and his post implied the same.
His post is also a standing proof of why developers are abandoning the self proclaimed next gen console and why its gathering dust in form of dev kits.
Don't take everything literally.


*@ thread*

The $458 million profit for sony is a welcome change and comes at a right time with E3 round the corner for a ps4 reveal.
Its a positive take for all potential developers to embrace the sony bandwagon.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 9, 2013)

Wii U has a propeitary disc format which can hold up to 25GB


----------



## vickybat (May 9, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Wii U has a propeitary disc format which can hold up to 25GB



Another dumb move by Nintendo. Adhering to a standard and universal format ( blue ray) would not only have given them more maximum space ( 150 gb for quadruple layers) , but also it would have acted like a standalone blue-ray player. Well 25 gb is still okay (Nintendo games seldom use that much space) , it still isn't a cost effective solution. Blue-ray would also have been ideal for future 4k content too. But that's in a bit of distance now. Next-xbox is also going down the blue-ray path.

I really don't understand why Nintendo always uses their own format rather than embracing the standard format.

*@ thread*

Boy o Boy, what do we have here:

*100 Billion Yen or Satoru Iwata Resigns from Nintendo*

*Iwata Implies He May Resign Over Poor Business Performance*

*Satoru Iwata implies he may resign if operating income target for next FY is not met*

Nintendo is in real dire straits. No offence to Mr. Iwata but things would have been much better if he would have taken a different approach with the console.
Instead he decided to look like a complete goofed up wannabe like:



Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/Fbct4of.jpg



He needs to stay away from those two clowns if the company has any hopes left.


----------



## darkv0id (May 9, 2013)

^ If that news comes to be true, it's going to be a sad day. Not only for Nintendo, but for the gaming industry in general. Iwata is one of the best CEOs around, not only in the the gaming industry but overall as well. I don't have a Nintendo console... but I've got to say, nothing but respect for the man.

However, the headline is somewhat taken out of context .If you read the original NeoGAF post; it seems to me he is taking a failure-is-not-an-option approach, that he is determined to tide them over the present crisis. Poor journalism.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 10, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Wii U has a propeitary disc format which can hold up to 25GB



That is only if it uses single layer discs. DL discs can easily hold 50GB. Not that any games using them exist yet though. 



darkv0id said:


> ^ If that news comes to be true, it's going to be a sad day. Not only for Nintendo, but for the gaming industry in general. Iwata is one of the best CEOs around, not only in the the gaming industry but overall as well. I don't have a Nintendo console... but I've got to say, nothing but respect for the man.
> 
> However, the headline is somewhat taken out of context .If you read the original NeoGAF post; it seems to me he is taking a failure-is-not-an-option approach, that he is determined to tide them over the present crisis. Poor journalism.



He claimed that he has a personal commitment to reaching a 100bn yen goal and may resign if the company performs poorly. With the announced 3DS lineup the company performing poorly is basically out of the question.

These sales are from Japan:

*imgur.com/vnFE9CY.gif

ACNL shows no sign of slowing down and isn't even out in the west yet. You have Luigi's Mansion 2 which debuted at the end of Q4 and is still selling well, surpassing all expectations and is set to become an unexpected million seller. Last week we had the release of Tomodachi Collection which lit up the Japanese charts quite well. 

Due to lowered manufacturing costs and a weaker yen the 3DS is being sold at a profit now. With all the titles announced in the last Nintendo Direct it looks like the 3DS will have quite a good year ahead. 



Spoiler



All this is ignoring the elephant in the room known as Pokemon X/Y



If the January Nintendo Direct is any true then it is unlikely that the Wii U will lose any money this year. This is not taking in account Iwata's statement that they have more unannounced games coming at E3. 

Now add licensing fees from 3rd party titles like MH4, YW & SMT4. 

Although no walk in the park, from what we know 100bn yen is quite achievable. 

P.S.: The SMT series may be right up your alley.

Activision Blizzard Management Discusses Q1 2013 Results - Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha



> Michael J. Olson - Piper Jaffray Companies, Research Division
> 
> So you mentioned that your focus is doing a few things exceptionally well, and as we enter the next cycle, depending on how you would define major franchises, you'll have 4 or so major franchises that generate the majority of your profits. What are your expectations for what that number will be during the middle innings of the next cycle? And then if I can kind of sneak in other one, the Wii has historically been relatively important for -- platform for Skylanders. Is there potential for Skylanders to face some headwinds versus last year, due to the weakness of Wii U?
> 
> ...



Right in the diversity.


----------



## anirbandd (May 10, 2013)

^sales in japan does not quite explain the situation in india, does it??

nintendo is fighting a war which it has already lost... atleast in india..

how many indian guys you know play mario on Wii??

and if you even a smaller picture, the avg indian gamer is all about AAA titles. just look at the answers to "what will you use this PC for" on PC Config thread.. none of the answers say Mario. 



> That is only if it uses single layer discs. DL discs can easily hold 50GB. Not that any games using them exist yet though.



you sure are ill informed.
MGS4: full dual layer 50GB.. remember the easter egg?? 
Killzone 3: full dual layer
Uncharted 3: Dual layer.

*btw, wasnt it you who told that Uncharted series is $hit??*


----------



## heidi2521 (May 10, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> ^sales in japan does not quite explain the situation in india, does it??
> 
> nintendo is fighting a war which it has already lost... atleast in india..
> 
> ...



My post was simply pointing out that as a company Nintendo is unlikely to underperform and the 100bn goal is achievable. I'm not sure where India comes into the picture at all. 

I give exactly zero $hits about the indian gaming scene. Most of the games I play aren't even released here(even if you exclude Nintendo releases). Even if they are they do not have much of a following in this country.

Nintendo is fighting no war over in India. They don't even exist here anymore. 

And to me it appears that you are the misinformed one since exactly zero of the titles you listed are there on the Wii U. 

And yeah I do happen to think that the gameplay of the Uncharted series is horrible, right from the terrible cameras, forced QTEs, terrible gunplay to mediocre platforming(made horrible by aforementioned cameras). Then there are the game specific problems like forced sixaxis in Drake's Fortune(FWIW i think that the forced waggle in DKCR was pretty horrible too) and the aiming system in Drake's Deception. Lets not even go into Golden Abyss.


----------



## anirbandd (May 10, 2013)

dead5 said:


> My post was simply pointing out that as a company Nintendo is unlikely to underperform and the 100bn goal is achievable. I'm not sure where India comes into the picture at all.
> 
> I give exactly zero $hits about the indian gaming scene. Most of the games I play aren't even released here(even if you exclude Nintendo releases). Even if they are they do not have much of a following in this country.
> 
> ...



answered


----------



## vickybat (May 10, 2013)

Nintendo actually is nothing but a big fish in a small pond i.e japan. If they have any hopes to survive, globalization is the only way.
Trends are changing and kiddish anime, manga games ( so called jrpg genre) are not ideal global franchises. There aren't much fan/user base away from japan for such titles.
Nintendo's constrained approach in game development is going southwards day by day too.

If they rely that much on FP, then doing away from the usual color pallete themed titles should prove to be a sensible decision. They should develop games with theme, developers like naughty dog and sony santamonica or even quantic dream takes. That would ensure their products being appreciated in a global scale and not only japan.

But i doubt nintendo will own this strategy and thus are doomed.

*@anirbandd*

Mate, no point in arguing with an *otaku*. People like this reside in a different dimension altogether.
You can't expect a person to give you valid and unbiased comments on a AAA ( almost movie like) cinematic gameplay found in the uncharted series, when he/she is still playing games like pokemon and the likes. Just give the comments a pass. There are lot other topics to discuss.


*The Engadget Interview: Cliff Bleszinski on next-gen gaming, Oculus Rift and the always-on console*


----------



## anirbandd (May 10, 2013)

^PM replied.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 10, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> answered



Well, I was pointing out that the DL Wii U discs have 50GB of space but no games that use it exist. You then claimed that I am ill informed after which you listed titles that don't even exist on the Wii U. 

You made no indication that you were talking about games using DL blu-ray discs while replying to a post that claimed that there were no games using DL Wii U discs leading me to presume that  they were examples of games using Wii U discs since there was nothing related to blu-ray at all in the post.  

Yup. If GTA IV gets 98/100 and yearly COD rehashes get scores in the 80s/90s there is nothing trustworthy about them. And game journalism/reviewing is hardly the paragon of integrity.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 10, 2013)

best to stay away from otaku's. Even the mods are fedup now, they cant ban them but they keep on closing the threads.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 10, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> ^sales in japan does not quite explain the situation in india, does it??
> 
> nintendo is fighting a war which it has already lost... atleast in india..
> 
> ...



All the games listed by you are bloated PS3 Exclusives


----------



## heidi2521 (May 10, 2013)

Sony bid to revive electronics to hinge on smartphones. Playstation sales predicted to contract at double digit rates.



> It predicted sales of its digital cameras and Playstation consoles would contract at double-digit rates.


----------



## vickybat (May 10, 2013)

*SCEE's Senior manager: an AMAZING big title coming to Vita*

*Sony’s PlayStation 4 Marketing Slogan Is "Greatness Awaits"*

*What Japanese Gamers Have to Say About The Cheaper PS Vita*


----------



## anirbandd (May 10, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Well, I was pointing out that the DL Wii U discs have 50GB of space but no games that use it exist. You then claimed that I am ill informed after which you listed titles that don't even exist on the Wii U.
> 
> You made no indication that you were talking about games using DL blu-ray discs while replying to a post that claimed that there were no games using DL Wii U discs leading me to presume that  they were examples of games using Wii U discs since there was nothing related to blu-ray at all in the post.
> 
> Yup. If GTA IV gets 98/100 and yearly COD rehashes get scores in the 80s/90s there is nothing trustworthy about them. And game journalism/reviewing is hardly the paragon of integrity.



lol.. all that Wii has are Mario, Pokemon, Spongebob, Naruto, Rayman and a bunch of fitness workouts and such. how can those even fill 50GB  ?

GTA deserves the 98/100 considering the story, replayability and the sheer monstrosity of the game... and i didnt even mention the fun factor.

COD is sheer FPS delight, though the graphics lacks a lot.

and did i mention Red Dead Redemption??

And what about PS3's Journey, the current GOTY??

You say game journalism/reviewing is hardly the paragon of integrity.. you seem to know what you are doing [] maybe you should tell us where each of the games that you mentioned as $hit lacks in..



CommanderShawnzer said:


> All the games listed by you are bloated PS3 Exclusives



bloated?? 

you mean to say they were not successful, and Sony paid the reviewers to give them good ratings??

check the sales records before talking. 

MGS4 is said to be the the Most Technically Perfect game in the History of gaming. Pure japanese perfection.

btw, have you even played on the PS3??


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 10, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> lol.. all that Wii has are Mario, Pokemon, Spongebob, Naruto, Rayman and a bunch of fitness workouts and such. how can those even fill 50GB  ?
> 
> GTA deserves the 98/100 considering the story, replayability and the sheer monstrosity of the game... and i didnt even mention the fun factor.
> 
> ...



Chill Hulk
Ok breathe for a few mins.Then read the spoiler box
Returned to Bruce Banner form?Good.Now read pls


Spoiler



When i say bloated i mean the size of the games.Even PC games don't constitute 45-50GB
maybe CELL-Optimized coding takes up a lot of space or something.Those games are very bloated,normal games are not that big and Aforementioned games are not native FHD 1080P so you can't say "HD textures" or something.Next time when comparing size of physical media of different consoles,please mention Multi-Platform games, and not Sony-Exclusives


----------



## anirbandd (May 10, 2013)

^hmm.. thats a valid point you've got..

my bad


----------



## vickybat (May 10, 2013)

*Sony, Microsoft going 'heavily' on free-to-play next-gen, says Epic VP Rein*

These heavyweights are going in the right direction unlike the moron i.e Nintendo.

*Watch Dogs: how the Xbox 360 and next gen Xbox versions differ*

There will be graphical differences but core game play will remain the same. This is some relief to the wii-u as its gonna perform just like ps3/xbox360.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *Sony, Microsoft going 'heavily' on free-to-play next-gen, says Epic VP Rein
> *
> These heavyweights are going in the right direction unlike the moron i.e Nintendo.
> 
> ...



I hope "heavily" does not turn into "Fully".Because there is nothing Free in F2P its more like Pay-to-Win


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

*Sony Planning to Not Lose Money with New PlayStation 4*

If i remember correctly, some kid was claiming a "$100 loss" and stuff like"journalism isn't paragon of integrity" kinda stuff.
Posting bull$hit doesn't make paragon of anything actually, let alone integrity.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 11, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> lol.. all that Wii has are Mario, Pokemon, Spongebob, Naruto, Rayman and a bunch of fitness workouts and such. how can those even fill 50GB  ?
> 
> GTA deserves the 98/100 considering the story, replayability and the sheer monstrosity of the game... and i didnt even mention the fun factor.
> 
> ...



Another genius. 

Here's a list of Wii games. 

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_Games

You may notice that most of the games do not fit the criteria you have mentioned. 

First off, I didn't say GTA IV was crap. I implied that the game didn't deserve 98/100.

GTA 4 was a step down from San Andreas & Vice City in many ways. The story conflicted with the gameplay, the controls were very clunky, the city was drab and bland and barring a few easter eggs, exploration was unrewarding, it had low replay value, way too much padding and filler content, the missions were less dynamic than the previous entry with too many scripted events, the pacing was horrible, the mission variety was low, the sandbox didn't allow for nearly as much freedom as the previous entries, etc. The main game itself too no advantage of the new things the game brought to the table i.e. the physics engine. 

In COD: Fleecing, Elite, Killstreaks, Ranks, poor map design and spawn points, lack of any meaningful change from the previous entry, weapons have no feeling of power, knifing, no emphasis on movement, regenerating health, no recoil or muzzle flash, way too much "Bloody screen so real", too much  emphasis on the individual, no rewards for team play, gameplay fundamentally designed to encourage screwing your team mates over to get cheap shots, no penalty for death etc.

RDR OTOH was a much better game. Brilliant environments, sound design, well controlling, interesting characters and setting, rewarding exploration, well paced etc. The only major problem with the game was the dissonance between the story, motivations and actions. 

Journey, although not a bad game by any measure, simply did not interest me. Plus, considering that every game publication and its cat gives out GOTYs, they aren't really all that special. 

I'm gonna need a citation on MGS being the "the Most Technically Perfect game in the History of gaming".



CommanderShawnzer said:


> I hope "heavily" does not turn into "Fully".Because there is nothing Free in F2P its more like Pay-to-Win



Mmm... quite. I'd rather have fully featured experiences I pay for upfront rather than a broken experience I get into for free and am nickeled and dimed throughout. Eg. MH3U is much better than the upcoming F2P china only MH:O. 

Just imagine how broken a game like Max Payne 3 would be if it was F2P. Pay $0.99 for a non gimped gun. Pay $5 for 50 lives, pay $2 to clear this area without any effort, pay $0.99 to get shields/armour etc.


----------



## anirbandd (May 11, 2013)

> Guns of the Patriots received widespread critical acclaim, garnering perfect reviews and Game of the Year awards from several major gaming publications, including GameSpot, which claimed that the game is "technically flawless".



*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_4:_Guns_of_the_Patriots



> GameSpot gave it a 10/10 saying "Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots is the most technically stunning video game ever made,"



same..


----------



## heidi2521 (May 11, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_4:_Guns_of_the_Patriots
> 
> 
> 
> same..



If you check the citation for the statement in Wikipedia it just leads to the Metacritic page. The gamespot review itself doesn't claim that it is "technically flawless" anywhere. 

Let me point out that "stunning" != "flawless".


----------



## darkv0id (May 11, 2013)

dead5 said:


> If you check the citation for the statement in Wikipedia it just leads to the Metacritic page. The gamespot review itself doesn't claim that it is "technically flawless" anywhere.
> 
> Let me point out that "stunning" != "flawless".



This.

@ anirbandd I think you know that proclaiming that "X" game is the most perfect leads to nothing but a flame war. Yes, for someone who likes cinematic stealth with a solid story, MGS4 may be technically flawless. But someone who loves strategy games may find XCOM:UFO Defense to be technically flawless. Someone who plays games purely for the story will find Planescape: Torment to be technically flawless. Someone who wants hardcore, teamwork-based shooter will find CS 1.6 to be flawless. 

"Flawless" is subjective. To each his own.


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

Guy please stay on topic. This is a next-gen console discussion  thread and not about "which game is better", especially current-gen games.

Ok back to topic:

*How 4K Resolution Gaming Looks – Is It Really Worth It?*

Looks like games are heading in the 4k direction. It looks like PS4 does have the ability to output at 4k resolutions, although games will be natively 1080p.
As said in the article, the differences are going to be noticeable if more no. of pixels are shown stretched out on a large screen tv. Lots of next gen titles like witcher 3, cyberpunk2077, and others seem to be heading in the 4k direction. Only the ultra hd tv prices has to come down, to make 4k gaming more mainstream.

*Insomniac CEO Comments on Wii U, PS4, Xbox 720*

For starters, let me clear the fact that insomniac games aren't a First party developers for sony but are independent. They decided to work with sony on the resistance series which was immensely popular. 
With the release of *FUSE*, its clear that they also develop on multiplatforms.

They seem to be having quite ambitious plans for next-gen development and are quite impressed with the PS4 and hope the next xbox to be equally impressive too. But they do not have same feelings for the wii-u. According to them, wii-u is current gen and i happen to agree with them along with thousands of gamers and journalists.



Spoiler






> *“Wii-U is something I'd consider more current gen - but we're not working on games for it,”* Price wrote. “When it comes to PS4 I'm excited that they seem to be lowering barriers for independent developers. It's cool to see almost weekly announcements from Sony explaining how they're opening things up for indies. And of course I'm very excited to see what Microsoft announces soon.”






*Watch Dogs creative director on PS4: “The strategies used by Sony are very smart”*

Sony may have nailed it this time with the developers. I'm yet to hear a single negative comment about development on PS4 from any developer out there.
This thing just might have the potential to outdo the legendary PS2 which is the most successful home console of all time.

Check some ps4 screenies of watchdogs:

Watch Dog PS4 screens - see the next-gen future of open world games | PS3 Previews, PS4 Games | Official PlayStation Magazine


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Guy please stay on topic. This is a next-gen console discussion  thread and not about "which game is better", especially current-gen games.
> 
> Ok back to topic:
> 
> ...




Phew.I thought sony has gone mad to not go with the "4K HD Gaming" band-wagon.


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

*Pachter: Nintendo “just doesn’t get it” with the Wii U*

Its an old article but starting to make sense now. How many of you agree with Mr. Pachter here??



Spoiler






> “Nintendo is partying like it’s 1985. Their strategy is ‘We got lucky with the Wii, so if we just try something different, we’ll get lucky again. In their vocabulary, the word ‘lucky’ doesn’t exist-substitute ‘brilliant.’ Unfortunately I don’t think it [the Wii U] looks brilliant.”







*Rumor: April update increased Wii U CPU & GPU speed*


Whoever spread this rumor has to be an otaku for sure. Faster loading times and snappier UI doesn't account for increased clockspeeds.


----------



## darkv0id (May 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Guy please stay on topic. *This is a next-gen console discussion  thread* and not about "which game is better", especially current-gen games.



@Vicky
Oh please. We both know that this thread is not a next-gen console "discussion", but rather a "lets bash Nintendo" free-for-all and a PS4 and NextBox circlejerk. You and a few other keep posting articles about how Nintendo is over and out, and how the NextBox and PS4 are God's gift to gaming; and extremegamer and dead5 try their best to defend Nintendo.

Some developers are ambivalent/optimistic about the Wii, and many people are actively criticizing the rumored features of the NextBox. I never see such articles being posted. And I am sick of people who think that playing games like Mario or Zelda somehow makes one immature, and how they somehow intellectually superior because they play "mature" games like CoD or GoW. Make no mistake, this thread is not a discussion, just another Console war.

Did Nintendo make a mistake with the WiiU? Yes. Are many AAA studios deserting the console? Yes.

Does this mean that Wii U and Nintendo are done for? No, no and no. 

People have been predicting Nintendo's downfall since the last 3 generations. Fact is neither you nor me know what cards Nintendo has up it's sleeve. So I suggest you drop the pretentious display of impartiality, because you, sir, are a fanboy, and nothing more.

EDIT: And before you accuse me of being a Nintendo fanboy, let me tell you: the only gaming system I have owned is a PC. 

And that Pachter fellow is an industry-wide joke.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 11, 2013)

@vickybat:dude have you heard about the "Pachter Theory"?
which says


> When Micheal Pachter says something will happen,the exact opposite happens




@Dark0Void : Awesome answer


----------



## heidi2521 (May 11, 2013)

Meanwhile at companies actually trying:

*www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/tanshin_hosoku_20130510_e_final.pdf

Sega bringing 7 titles to the Wii U this year. Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed becomes a smash hit on the Wii U with more than 23% of its sales coming from that platform. (It came out on PC, PS3, X360, 3DS, Vita, Wii U).

At the other corner:

igTedPrice comments on Hi I'm Ted Price, founder and CEO of Insomniac Games - creators of Fuse. Ask me anything!

Ted Price implies that Nintendo released 2 home consoles in a single generation, i.e. The GameCube & Wii, and (hw & sw included) was the most successful (home) console maker in the 6th gen. (This is presuming that his comments have nothing to with the ultra close relation they have with Sony due to the long time they spent as a second party and the fact that their current publisher is EA, that they have no hard feelings over Miyamoto's comments, or the fact that they have never even tried to be on a Nintendo console).

The DeanBeat: Why Nintendo should have bought Ouya and other might-have-beens | GamesBeat

Dean Gordon says that you have no reason to buy "a Nintendo" if you have a tablet and Sony “is starting to look like the new Sega of the game business".

Rumour: The Recent Wii U System Update Has Boosted Clock Speeds - Wii U News @ Nintendo Life

Sourced at TV Tropes. Seems legit.


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

*@darkvoid*

Of course i'm a sony fanboy and there's nothing wrong on being one. At least i'm not a mindless fanboy.
Been using consoles since 1992 ( my first console was an atari 2600). Using sony consoles since 1998. I have wonderful memories of my nes and used my friend's snes too for quite a while.
Used a wii for a year and that made me think otherwise on Nintendo consoles. Their current approach deserves to be bashed and no wonder, its happening everywhere.

Btw, this thread is about next-gen consoles only. So please refrain from posting off-topic. If you want anything to say, say it in the context of this thread i.e next gen consoles.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> @vickybat:dude have you heard about the "Pachter Theory"?
> which says



I don't seem to see the opposite happening. Do you?


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I don't seem to see the opposite happening. Do you?



It will happen.Soon.Don't worry


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

dead5 said:


> The DeanBeat: Why Nintendo should have bought Ouya and other might-have-beens | GamesBeat
> 
> Dean Gordon says that you have no reason to buy "a Nintendo" if you have a tablet and Sony “is starting to look like the new Sega of the game business".



This article just got the title of *"The most hilarious article of all time"*. This guy has no clue what's he saying.
The comments in that page, says it all.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> It will happen.Soon.Don't worry



What will happen?

One of the best comments:



> From a developer standpoint a generation has always been defined by the ability of the hardware. The Wii missed out on most everything last gen because it was not technically capable of running the same games. The Wii U is in the same spot, except worse. The Wii U has sold less than 400,000 consoles in 2013, it has no install base, no consumer interest, and is based on ancient hardware that would require developers to make a special effort to create games. You can claim whatever you want based on semantics but to a developer the Wii U is a failed console in the same generation as PS3 and 360, it does not compare with the PS4 or Durango in anyway. Games made for PS4 and Durango would not run on Wii U. For all intents and purposes Wii U is not a next-gen box.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 11, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> @Vicky
> Oh please. We both know that this thread is not a next-gen console "discussion", but rather a "lets bash Nintendo" free-for-all and a PS4 and NextBox circlejerk. You and a few other keep posting articles about how Nintendo is over and out, and how the NextBox and PS4 are God's gift to gaming; and extremegamer and dead5 try their best to defend Nintendo.
> 
> Some developers are ambivalent/optimistic about the Wii, and many people are actively criticizing the rumored features of the NextBox. I never see such articles being posted. And I am sick of people who think that playing games like Mario or Zelda somehow makes one immature, and how they somehow intellectually superior because they play "mature" games like CoD or GoW. Make no mistake, this thread is not a discussion, just another Console war.
> ...



Yup. Capcom, Sega & Ubisoft have been positive about the Wii U in their reports while ActiBlizz maintained a more neutral stance.

Nintendo made multiple mistakes with the Wii U but now they are trying their best to fix it. Some things like botched launch, branding and an early reveal cannot be fixed so they are planning a soft relaunch of sorts starting from August as indicated in their financial report. Lets not ignore Iwata's statement that they have many more unannounced games coming at the end of the year. 

Most of the AAA studios that were on the console are still on it. Others never have been on Nintendo consoles since the N64, even if the the hardware was more than up to the task. The only significant departure I can think of would be EA. 

Frankly, saying Nintendo is done for and the Wii U will meet the same fate as the DreamCast makes as much sense saying Sony is done for and the Vita will meet the same fate as the Nomad. 

Here's what Hirai has to say about gaming platforms:



> A game platform, [...] – the software is the key to success, how good the software is



@CommanderShawnzer: I believe the proper term is "the reverse Pachterdaumus".


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 11, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *1.This article just got the title of "The most hilarious article of all time". This guy has no clue what's he saying.
> The comments in that page, says it all.
> *
> 
> ...



1.Mobile/Tab Fanboys.The most Evil scourge that unites all PC and Console Fanboys 
2.Well,Wii-U will become un-sucky and sell lots of units


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 11, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> @Vicky
> Oh please. We both know that this thread is not a next-gen console "discussion", but rather a "lets bash Nintendo" free-for-all and a PS4 and NextBox circlejerk. You and a few other keep posting articles about how Nintendo is over and out, and how the NextBox and PS4 are God's gift to gaming; and extremegamer and dead5 try their best to defend Nintendo.
> 
> Some developers are ambivalent/optimistic about the Wii, and many people are actively criticizing the rumored features of the NextBox. I never see such articles being posted. And I am sick of people who think that playing games like Mario or Zelda somehow makes one immature, and how they somehow intellectually superior because they play "mature" games like CoD or GoW. Make no mistake, this thread is not a discussion, just another Console war.
> ...



Thanks mate, you said it better than I could. I got bored arguing with such geniuses so I didn't bother posting, but couldn't help it when I got mentioned 



vickybat said:


> *@darkvoid*
> 
> Of course i'm a sony fanboy and there's nothing wrong on being one. At least i'm not a mindless fanboy.
> Been using consoles since 1992 ( my first console was an atari 2600). Using sony consoles since 1998. I have wonderful memories of my nes and used my friend's snes too for quite a while.
> ...



If you call yourself a mindful-fanboy, you would not be blinded by your hatred for Nintendo. Even I don't like their consoles Wii onwards, but that doesn't mean they're bad. The DSi was their last device that I liked.

Why don't you just admit that this is Nintendo-bashing under the guise of "next-gen discussion". How does "not making a major loss" become "making a profit btw"? Emphasis on major in "major loss". All it means is that they wont be making a significant loss, not that they wont be making a loss at all.

You should bother opening IT history books to see that Pachter once said the Wii U would dominate. Turns out it's not. And now he says its doomed. So it will do well?  

And no point replying to dead5. Chances are he won't read your post- you're in his ignore list.

I'm no Nintendo fan, let alone fanboy, but I just can't stand the sheer ignorance some people, including you, are showing in your posts. When the argument is not going according to your plan, you try and divert attention. When people respond to your diversion to prove that the diversions are unfruitful, you say "please stay on topic".

I'm so bored arguing with geniuses who don't understand anything, or rather don't _want_ to understand anything, that I'll leave this post here and not bother replying to these geniuses.


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> 1.Mobile/Tab Fanboys.The most Evil scourge that unites all PC and Console Fanboys



Exactly. 



CommanderShawnzer said:


> 2.Well,Wii-U will become un-sucky and sell lots of units



Honestly mate, i don't have a personal grudge on Nintendo or something. Their current approach is flawed including their decisions.
Those mobiles and tablets are in some way responsible for Nintendo's current state and their non- support of independent developers.

Check the following comment by cliffyB:

The Engadget Interview: Cliff Bleszinski on next-gen gaming, Oculus Rift and the always-on console



> *Q* *You have notoriously loved Nintendo, and the classic Nintendo titles, but you've never developed anything for Nintendo.*
> 
> *Ans-* They never called. Plain and simple.



The guy is an ardent fan of nintendo and although how impressive developer epic is ( creator of unreal engine), they were never given a chance to develop for nintendo.
Nintendo seems to live in their own world and utilize the same strategy over and over again. These are clear indications of their downfall. Simply not getting support.

It will be good if they avoid the impending doom and their console is a success. But i don't see it happening.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 11, 2013)

Few publishers actually beg developers to make games on certain consoles, and the console makers rarely call up third-party devs. Epic, despite being around for so long, has barely released any games very noticable on the radar. Their most recognized games are only the Unreal series and the Gears of War series, and the upcoming Fortnite, which post-announcement, they haven't really shown off. They're more focused on developing their engines, and licensing is probably their biggest source of income in the years that they don't release a high-profile game on the major platforms.

Nintendo probably wants Epic to take the initiative on its own.

IF Epic _really_ wanted to develop games on Nintendo platforms, instead of such showmanship and false-fandom, they would have talked to Nintendo directly. Nintendo, or any platform maker for that matter won't close its doors to developers. And they even have applications for developers to sign up. I don't thing Epic would not be noticed.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 11, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Few publishers actually beg developers to make games on certain consoles, and the console makers rarely call up third-party devs. Epic, despite being around for so long, has barely released any games very noticable on the radar. Their most recognized games are only the Unreal series and the Gears of War series, and the upcoming Fortnite, which post-announcement, they haven't really shown off. They're more focused on developing their engines, and licensing is probably their biggest source of income in the years that they don't release a high-profile game on the major platforms.
> 
> Nintendo probably wants Epic to take the initiative on its own.
> 
> IF Epic _really_ wanted to develop games on Nintendo platforms, instead of such showmanship and false-fandom, they would have talked to Nintendo directly. Nintendo, or any platform maker for that matter won't close its doors to developers. And they even have applications for developers to sign up. I don't thing Epic would not be noticed.



nintendo does not want any third party developers, they want to milk only their first party franchises .


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 11, 2013)

Another bit of Bad news for Nintendo fans, head of avalanche studios (Just cause etc) has remarked that they have no plans to develop for Wii U. Though it wouldnt be such a blow to Nintendo, still it puts forward the unfortunate situation Wii-U is in. The problem is Developers dont see a point in making new games for the console which has little to no user base and there is not enough user base because there are not enough titles on it....
I really wish some miracle (a wonderfull nintendo exclusive ip) to happen so that PS and XBOX have competetion.... so that they wont get complacent..
PS has become so humbled in the recent years only because of the dent Wii and XBOX put in their market share...


----------



## vickybat (May 11, 2013)

*Several Wii U dev kits returned to Nintendo untouched*

*Wii U Dev kits returned to Nintendo untouched*


*i.imgur.com/GCAE2Fg.jpg




> Looks like the revolt has begun, Nintendo. Reports are coming in, as many as 10 developers have returned their untouched Wii U developer kits to Nintendo this week. *9 of the 10 are unknown at this time, but one has stepped forward and admitted that they either had no idea what to develop for the system nor did their developers want to. Avalanche Studios gave a quote this morning to IGN stating that they had initial plans to develop new games for the Wii U, but just had no clue what to do. They do think that it's a "cool" idea, but its just not the right idea for them*.





> *Which leaves us with 8 unknown 3rd party developers who have returned their Wii U dev kits. It was also reported that Nintendo were giving away dev kits to 3rd party developers for free. Are we looking at a 3rd party revolt against Nintendo?* Are they trying to send a message? Nintendo said that they were going to lead their Wii U by example and show off the best 3rd party development for any console on the market.. at least President, Reggie Fils-Aime said that. *It seems that developers aren't enticed at all by Nintendo's new look, the Touch-pad on the gamepad has not been quite the conversation starter amongst gamers, and developers alike. There has been reports that developers don't even know what they would do with second screen. Has Nintendo made things too complicated?* What do you guys think? Let us know below!





> *WB Games and Netherrealm Studios who developed Injustice: Gods Among Us for the PS3, XBOX360 and the Wii U earlier this month claimed that they tried to stay in touch with Nintendo to work out a deal to distribute their DLC on the Nintendo eShop, but no one was getting in contact with them*. As reported, nine other developers have returned their dev kits, and EA's stance on the Wii U right now has simply been that they are in no way developing for the Wii U. I guess we could count them in that group.



What the hell is wrong with Nintendo? Are they so sure about their first party releases and ignoring third party support completely?
Fanboy or not, i guess everybody will agree with the fact that Nintendo is getting ignored big time. They are sure aware but i guess are out of ideas to counter a situation like this.
They should have at least given competitive hardware this time round to ensure constant flow of cross platform titles.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More than competitive hardware they should have made the CPU and GPU of x86 architecture,rather than the IBM PowerPC thing they are using right now.
It would make it easier for next gen game devs to port stuff over.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> More than competitive hardware they should have made the CPU and GPU of x86 architecture,rather than the IBM PowerPC thing they are using right now.
> It would make it easier for next gen game devs to port stuff over.



Exactly mate. Even a quad core jaguar based soc would have done the job. But i guess its not as easy as we think to obtain new parts.
Maybe they did not have enough funds to approach amd or they have a deal with ibm. Still, they got inferior hardware. PS3's cell is actually still better than the espresso chip that wii-u uses.
Its more like a triple core version of wii's cpu and draws design ques from ibm's power7 architecture ( its like a power saving version like arm A5 and not performance parts like A9 or A15). The cell processor is still superior. Although it has a better gpu than ps3 or xbox360, its no match for what ps4 and next xbox are going to bring.

Apart from hardware, their controller design is getting bashed too. The screen is like a forced add-on. I don't know how the heck  Nintendo is going to efficiently use it in their fp titles.
To make things worse, the screen type is resistive. 


Games that use the cell processor better, actually look better despite having weaker graphics. That's because cell processor has simd units like gpu and is a very much capable and powerful vector processor. It can do vertex shading like a gpu. That's why early ps3 titles looked bad because they did not use cell that efficiently. Check this:

*Wii-U Vs PS3 Comparison Show Wii U Is Not A Huge Leap*



Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/bhmZXNy.jpg





> *Even taking into consideration Batman’s new armoured suit and its apparent sheen, it’s quite apparent that the Wii-U is lacking the definition and textures in the cityscape found in the PS3 version of the game.* Differences are minimal but the Wii U certainly doesn’t look like a generational leap in comparison to anything but the Wii. Perhaps that’s the point.



The hardware isn't as good and that's why EA had trouble running frostbite 2 on it. The api and sdk standards also makes a difference.
The kind of games Nintendo makes, i don't think they have enough expertise on sdk development like sony or microsoft and has trouble running advanced engines.

Same goes for this:

*Head2Head: Assassins Creed III Screenshot Comparison Wii U/PS3/Xbox 360*

Here, both xbox 360 and ps3 versions are better than wii-u.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 12, 2013)

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the claims that Nintendo are hard to contact for devs is absolutely false.

*i.imgur.com/uK3mChQ.png

I cannot give more definite proof for _reasons_. If necessary I can PM more proof to one of the admins.

I'd like to see if M$ony have any game as compelling as this:



It has: Giant monsters, Hunting aforementioned monsters, Transforming Mechs, Giant Mechs, Flying Mechs, Battles between mechs, is made by the creators of Baten Kaitos & Xenoblade Chronicles, scored by the person scoring Gundam Unicorn, Is directed by Tetsuya Takahashi(FF IV/V/VI/VII,Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, Xenosaga) etc. 

Retro Studios is working on something that should be awesome. Exactly zero of their games have not been good. Since they have been hiring ex-ND employees, ex-Crytek employees, and ex-Vigil employees that is probably something appealing entirely to the west. We are yet to see what magic Tokyo EAD (4 I think) has been working and them rescuing Bayonetta from cancellation and oblivion is certainly a sign that they aren't abandoning gamers wanting more adult content.  

@CommanderShawnzer

Iwata Asks

Iwata Asks

They didn't go for x86 because their internal teams have no experience with it, it makes cross development between the 3DS & Wii U easier, they can't expect 3rd party devs to pick up the slack for them(even when the hardware was up to snuff little to no support came. Only the usual companies like Capcom & Sega were there), none of their internal teams have a PC heritage or developers with a PC heritage, they wanted low power consumption and the x86 architecture processors don't provide as much efficiency as they needed(The other option would be ARM, which would face all the other problems x86 does internally), they keep shuffling around people between different teams(including xplatform handheld<---->console shuffling) so that their products don't become stale and the developers don't get bored, they wanted BC with the Wii, most of their 3rd party partners(Platinum, Atlus, Namco, Sega, Capcom, Travellers Tales to name a few) have a lot of PPC experience so it wouldn't be any problem for them, them and all their Studios(bar one) being in Japan makes it difficult for them to find enough PC devs to help their teams learn/develop for the x86 in a short enough time, they said that they were already struggling with HD development so having to learn a new architecture would just make the problem worse etc.

From Nintendo's internal perspective sticking to PPC makes sense. 

Ref: The GameCube era, GDC keynotes by Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Masahiro Sakurai across various years, the linked to Iwata asks, various releases by Nintendo.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Exactly mate. Even a quad core jaguar based soc would have done the job. But i guess its not as easy as we think to obtain new parts.
> Maybe they did not have enough funds to approach amd or they have a deal with ibm. Still, they got inferior hardware. PS3's cell is actually still better than the espresso chip that wii-u uses.
> Its more like a triple core version of wii's cpu and draws design ques from ibm's power7 architecture ( its like a power saving version like arm A5 and not performance parts like A9 or A15). The cell processor is still superior. Although it has a better gpu than ps3 or xbox360, its no match for what ps4 and next xbox are going to bring.
> 
> ...



1. So according to you, nintendo should have removed backwards compatibility with the Wii, or co-operated with a third party like Dolphin to get the Wii onto the Wii U?
2. The Jaguar processor IPC is worse than the Cell's IPC. So in the CPU part alone, the PS4 is worse than PS3. Lets bash PS4 now too! Dont forget that the Jaguar architecture used on the PS3 is for AMD's APU lineup, i.e. AMD's mid-range CPU lineup, not AMD FX.
3. Since when did a resistive screen become bad? In fact, resistive screens are much more precise at taking inputs than capacitative ones. And the Wii U and the DS line has some of the best resistive screens on the market (for touch input), they don't require much pressure to sense input, and you can easily use your fingers also if you want.
4. Just like PS3 launch games were no indicators of the console performance, the same can be said for the Wii U.
5. Your Arkham City screenshot is invalid. They have to be of the exact same point to be valid. Apart from that it is obvious that a Depth of Field effect is active in the Wii U screenshot. The batsuit is also different from the one on the PS3 screenshot. The Joker images look more or less the same.
6. It is obvious in the PS3, Xbox and Wii U comparison that colour palette was corrected for the PS3 and Xbox, while it was not for the Wii U. In fact, the character models look a little better defined on the Wii U due to improved anti-aliasing and better defined textures. Even shadows are better on the Wii U version. Once you get past the colour pallette hoaxadjustment, you know that for sure. Even the guys at LensofTruth have mentioned that.



> *To ensure color accuracy from the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Wii U output, the PlayStation 3 has RGB Full Range set to "Full" and Super White "On", and the Xbox 360 has Reference Level set to "Expanded" and HDMI Color Space set to "RGB". Our capture card we have captured segments from the AVS HD 709 . Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration suite.
> 
> As you will see, each system matches each other at the SOURCE LEVEL. No contrast or gamma settings are manipulated before or after capturing our images/videos. We strongly believe that these types of corrections are done on a individuals preference and should not be adjusted by us. Finally, washed out looking images that are due to contrast or gamma differences will not have any influence on our final verdicts. Please Read through our F.A.Q page if you have any questions or concerns.*



They said that the systems match each other at source level. And for colour accuracy they did not mention anything for the Wii U...

...but I keep forgetting who I am arguing with...

BTW, they worked with Renesas, IBM and AMD together.



			
				Shiota said:
			
		

> Right. We really drew on the wisdom of Renesas[SUP]11[/SUP], IBM[SUP]12[/SUP] and AMD[SUP]13[/SUP], who cooperated with us. To isolate the problem we devised a way to have a minimum amount of signal travel outside of the MCM, so we could verify the problem with the minimum amount of overhead.14 11. Renesas Electronics Corporation: A semiconductor manufacturer with its headquarters in Chiyoda Ward, Tokyo.
> 
> 12. International Business Machines Corporation: A company providing computer-related services and products. Its headquarters is in New York State.
> 
> ...


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> 1. So according to you, nintendo should have removed backwards compatibility with the Wii, or co-operated with a third party like Dolphin to get the Wii onto the Wii U?
> 2. The Jaguar processor IPC is worse than the Cell's IPC. So in the CPU part alone, the PS4 is worse than PS3. Lets bash PS4 now too! Dont forget that the Jaguar architecture used on the PS3 is for AMD's APU lineup, i.e. AMD's mid-range CPU lineup, not AMD FX.
> 3. Since when did a resistive screen become bad? In fact, resistive screens are much more precise at taking inputs than capacitative ones. And the Wii U and the DS line has some of the best resistive screens on the market (for touch input), they don't require much pressure to sense input, and you can easily use your fingers also if you want.
> 4. Just like PS3 launch games were no indicators of the console performance, the same can be said for the Wii U.
> ...



You have no idea whom you are arguing with. About your comment on jaguar's ipc is worse than cell, give me some architectural proof about your claims.
Don't worry i'll understand them. Time to shut you up once and for all.

Comparing Cell and ibm power 7 is like comparing apples to oranges. Do you even know the difference between SPE and PPE?


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You have no idea whom you are arguing with. About your comment on jaguar's ipc is worse than cell, give me some architectural proof about your claims.
> Don't worry i'll understand them. Time to shut you up once and for all.
> 
> Comparing Cell and ibm power 7 is like comparing apples to oranges. Do you even know the difference between SPE and PPE?



I am arguing with a [sarcasm]know-it-all genius[/sarcasm] 
PPE and SPE are components of the Cell Microprocessor. PPE is the multithreaded two-way core that acts as the controlling element of the SPEs or the Synergistec Processing Elements, which are 128-bit SIMD ISA-capable units used for any complex operations by chaining together and passing on the instruction from SPE to SPE until the final output is reached.

And when did I compare Cell and IBM power7? I said that the Jaguar's CPU IPC is weaker than Cells CPU IPC. In fact, it is you who was comparing Power7 to Cell with your Wii U vs PS3 comparison.

If you look at my previous post again, I added new info, that Nintendo worked together with IBM, AMD and Renesas together to create their Espresso MCM. Do you know what MCM means?


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I am arguing with a [sarcasm]know-it-all genius[/sarcasm]
> PPE and SPE are components of the Cell Microprocessor. PPE is the multithreaded two-way core that acts as the controlling element of the SPEs or the Synergistec Processing Elements, which are 128-bit SIMD ISA-capable units used for any complex operations by chaining together and passing on the instruction from SPE to SPE until the final output is reached.
> 
> And when did I compare Cell and IBM power7? I said that the Jaguar's CPU IPC is weaker than Cells CPU IPC. In fact, it is you who was comparing Power7 to Cell with your Wii U vs PS3 comparison.
> ...



You really don't have any clue on what you're posting do you?. Copying definitions from google isn't gonna help you this time.
You are doing nothing but making a fool out of yourself by comparing a CISC x86 processor with a vector processor.

Btw, a RISC cpu is incapable of complex or macro operations. It takes simple or micro-operations and has extremely low instruction set support compared to what x86 offers.
Your comparison between jaguar and cell really showed your degree of intelligence.

Cell is an HSA unit. It incorporates simd units ( vector processors) in form of SPE's. They work on a huge array of data for a single instruction but incapable of handling complex instructions, ( game console hardly needs these). 

Consider the following example:

You have an instruction:


```
a *= 2b
```

Now this is a single operation. Vector processors has the ability to work on a huge data set which x86 cpu's are incapable of.

Lets say, you have 100 data items that works on the above operation. 


```
for ( i = 0 ; i<=99 ; i++){

a[i]  *= 2b[i];

}
```

So you see, 100 values of 'a' is operated with 100 values of 'b' and assigned to 'a' again .All have different results. This is parallel processing that a vector processor is capable of .
It can work on 100 sets of data in a single cycle whereas a cpu takes multiple cycles as it isn't as parallel as a vector processor.

But cpu can perform complex operations on single data sets efficiently. You don't have to break it down that often.

For example - SQRT (x) is a complex operation and an x86 cpu doesn't have to break it down. They have a massive amount of instruction set support that does the job.
Read up to know how.

*Do you know now how foolish it was to compare jaguar and cell in IPC context?* Cell's PPE is based on ibm's power pc architecture. But in cell, it just used for scheduling and feeding instructions to the spe's. More like a branch predictor in a conventional cpu front-end. Spe's are vector processor and works in the way i explained before. They are chained, have a common repository with a ring bus like structure so that data can be shared. They are capable of handling gpu functionalities too except rendering as they don't have ROP'S.

Spe's can do vertex shading like a gpu and thus offloads a lot of task from RSX. It can also be used in GPGPU computing like ray tracing which ps3 exclusives bring.

So cell is an HSA architecture just like AMD JAGUAR + AMD GCN in the ps4. The compute engines in a GCN are vector processors like SPE's but have far better IPC and throughput than cell. The peak compute performance is 1.84 teraflops and that's a lot. PS3's CELL doesn't even come close.

Now you realize how flawed you points were? And hey, don't make a laughing stock of yourself by comparing a multi chip module with an APU. 
Do you even know what a heterogeneous architecture is ? 



dead5 said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and say that the claims that Nintendo are hard to contact for devs is absolutely false.
> 
> *i.imgur.com/uK3mChQ.png
> 
> I cannot give more definite proof for _reasons_. If necessary I can PM more proof to one of the admins.



This!!!!

No wonder Nintendo is losing developer support and are destined to be doomed.


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer,  again time for you to go back into the study table and reading about what HSA is.  By just comparing Jaguar CPU performance with Cell, please don't try to prove anything.  Cell is a Vector Processor unit and obviously it will offer better performance than a single JAGUAR CORE, in fact it might perform better than the i7 3770k in floating point performance.
But what you are not understanding that in PS4 & XBOX NEXT, neithet cpu cores nor the stream processor cores workinging independently, instead they are working as a single unit with* MANY CORE DESIGN WHERE NOT ALL THE CORES ARE OF SAME TYPE*. This concept is backed up by the advanced designs like* UMA, UNIFIED MEMORY BUS, direct point to point link among the cores, Unified Cache sharing etc in hardware front and advanced programming models, advanced memory management techniques, HSAIL (HSA Intermediate Language) in software front*.  It is no more CPU PERFORMANCE & GPU PERFORMANCE any more.

And FYI, total throughput of the PS4 SOC is pretty higher than CEll design. So try to understand things before you're posting. There is no doubt that CELL is a very powerful processing unit and in fact one of the 1st implementation of HSA in consumer based products. But due to its RISC programming models, it is more suitable for special purpose tasks than general computing. They are suitable for Network operations, security and related works, Weather prediction but sadly very limited in general computing an lacks software support. Now the current GPU design and Multi-core CPU designs are backed by languages like OpenCL, CUDA, Open AMP, Microsoft C++ AMP (C++ Accelerated Massive Parallelism), resulting better HSA programming model development, CELL hardly has these kind of advanced framework support and developing an optimizing code block for it in High level language is very difficult unless you have very good knowledge about Cell architecture and instruction support.

 Although I am not sure but from your discussion, it looks lik Wii U uses a tripple Core Poer PC CPU and a HD 4770 based GPU. Not this looks more like a custom made PC running Nintendo custom OS. In Processing capability, Power PC is a *In Order RISC design* and definitely less power ful than current generation X86 CPU from AMD and Intel which use Out of Order hardware implementation, resulting improved IPC performance. The HD 4000 series were never made for compute work and relies upon static or compiler scheduling rather than dynamic scheduling present in nVdia and AMD GCN design. Because of these, it has an inherent problem with HSA implementation.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You really don't have any clue on what you're posting do you?. Copying definitions from google isn't gonna help you this time.
> You are doing nothing but making a fool out of yourself by comparing a CISC x86 processor with a vector processor.
> 
> Btw, a RISC cpu is incapable of complex or macro operations. It takes simple or micro-operations and has extremely low instruction set support compared to what x86 offers.
> ...



I know what RISC and CISC are capable of, genius.

RISC and CISC have been very close to each other in performance since late-1999 because of excellent design principles. *www.ifp.illinois.edu/~jones/RISCvCISCvDSP.pdf

Now don't tell me that a University of Illinois lecture document lies.



HSA is heterogeneous system architecture, which the cell isn't. It is a processor configured to support vector calculations thanks to the SPEs. And I wasn't even comparing the SPEs to GCN, you genius  I was comparing the SPEs to Jaguar's CPU component. First read what I wrote properly and then comment. It is obvious to anyone that GCN >>> SPE. But not the Jarguar CPU.

Heterogeneous architecture is an architecture that can share compute instructions between both the CPU and GPU. One key feature is that the memory pool is shared between the two- something the PS3 does not have. The cache on RSX is not shared with cell or vice versa, and neither is the RAM for the two combined.

And before you think that I don't know what I'm talking about, I got in as a CS student in one of the world's best universities this year. Your posting technical info in an attempt to make me stutter will yield no results.

Besides, you should not be taking this thread off topic. This is about next-gen consoles and not about your pissing contest against Nintendo. How does being accessible mean that Nintendo is losing developer support, genius?

Why don't you just admit that you hate Nintendo and want it to die because they don't have what you think they should have on offer? You should have already learned that the tech industry does not run according to how you want it to run.

First you post blatantly false information without getting your facts right, and then you go on a tirade without really knowing what you're talking about.



Cilus said:


> Extreme Gamer,  again time for you to go back into the study table and reading about what HSA is.  By just comparing Jaguar CPU performance with Cell, please don't try to prove anything.  Cell is a Vector Processor unit and obviously it will offer better performance than a single JAGUAR CORE, in fact it might perform better than the i7 3770k in floating point performance.
> But what you are not understanding that in PS4 & XBOX NEXT, neithet cpu cores nor the stream processor cores workinging independently, instead they are working as a single unit with MANY CORE DESIGN WHERE NOT ALL THE CORES ARE OF SAME TYPE. This concept is backed up by the advanced designs like UMA, UNIFIED MEMORY BUS, direct point to point link among the cores, Unified Cache sharing etc in hardware front and advanced programming models, advanced memory management techniques, HSAIL (HSA Intermediate Language) in software front.  It is no more CPU PERFORMANCE & GPU PERFORMANCE any more.
> And FYI, total throughput of thr PS4 SOC is pretty higher than CEll design. So try to understand things before you're posting.



I know what HSA is. 

I'm not trying to prove anything. He took on the Wii U for using Power7 architecture based MCM, and said that it is weaker than Cell. Even the Jaguar's CPU component is the same. That is all what I was pointing out to him. I know that the Many-cores design used on the PS4/Nextbox means that the Jaguar is beefy, but then again, even espresso can offload compute tasks to the GPU (cell does exactly the opposite).

Cilus, you should read my posts in context rather than out of context.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 12, 2013)

Activision: Xbox Infinity, PS4 May Face Same Wii U Woes

Say what you want about Bobby Kotick he is certainly no hack and has been good at predicting industry trends(CoD, Skylanders, warning smartphone focused development when Zynga was at its prime and everybody from Square Enix to EA was jumping on board etc). I certainly hope that it is not true. The last thing we need would be an industry crash.

Edit: And ol' Pachterdamus has been predicting that they will be massive successes, so you have that.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I know what RISC and CISC are capable of, genius.
> 
> RISC and CISC have been very close to each other in performance since late-1999 because of excellent design principles. *www.ifp.illinois.edu/~jones/RISCvCISCvDSP.pdf
> 
> ...



Oh so you didn't learn a lesson. Cell is not heterogeneous?  So still don't have a clue what an spe or ppe is don't you?
Don't bring RSX into the picture lol. The cell itself is heterogeneous ( many core architecture) because spe's and ppe are different. 
I guess you don't even understand the term heterogeneous.
Like cilus said, its time for you to go to study table as always. And and.....try to comprehend the exact link you posted yourself.
It says nothing that you speak because the guy who wrote those slides isn't as dumb as you seem from your posts. Risc mp's shine in particular tasks only and aren't diversely used as CISC processors. Regular encryption and decryption tasks are better handled by risc cpu's and therefore cell was used in network servers to decrypt hashed passwords and create another more formidable encryption which isn't easy to decrypt by normal brute force techniques and algorithms. Giving a slide doesn't prove any of your claims actually. In fact you have a history of this if i remember correctly.

Your posts are nothing but mindless, and extremely erroneous . Don't you understand plain English? Do you know how foolish it is to compare an SPE with jaguar?
Are you really even a CS student? Coz if it was, i would be the one who should be stuttering and not you ( so you are stuttering ).

Well i have a degree in electronics and telecommunication engineering ( *this hardly matters in this context. *) from one of leading universities in india ( not world).
Cilus here is a CS graduate and an extremely capable software engineer ( also from one of the top universities in india) and you are not able to comprehend him as well?
Are you really this dumb and always a laughing stock? Let me quote what cilus said you in case you are ignorant like always:



Cilus said:


> *And FYI, total throughput of the PS4 SOC is pretty higher than CEll design. So try to understand things before you're posting. There is no doubt that CELL is a very powerful processing unit and in fact one of the 1st implementation of HSA in consumer based products. But due to its RISC programming models, it is more suitable for special purpose tasks than general computing. They are suitable for Network operations, security and related works, Weather prediction but sadly very limited in general computing an lacks software support. Now the current GPU design and Multi-core CPU designs are backed by languages like OpenCL, CUDA, Open AMP, Microsoft C++ AMP (C++ Accelerated Massive Parallelism), resulting better HSA programming model development, CELL hardly has these kind of advanced framework support and developing an optimizing code block for it in High level language is very difficult unless you have very good knowledge about Cell architecture and instruction support.
> 
> Although I am not sure but from your discussion, it looks lik Wii U uses a triple Core Power PC CPU and a HD 4770 based GPU. Not this looks more like a custom made PC running Nintendo custom OS. In Processing capability, Power PC is a In Order RISC design and definitely less power ful than current generation X86 CPU from AMD and Intel which use Out of Order hardware implementation, resulting improved IPC performance. The HD 4000 series were never made for compute work and relies upon static or compiler scheduling rather than dynamic scheduling present in nVdia and AMD GCN design. Because of these, it has an inherent problem with HSA implementation*.



Extremegamer,tell us which part is too difficult for you to understand. 

I warned you not to go with an argument on things you don't know and incapable of comprehending. I really don't like insulting people for no reason.
You left me no choice.

And about the wii-u, its a self proclaimed next-gen console, bad and foolish design, getting rightly ignored by developers, architecturally its grossly underpowered and can't even match cell as a whole unit ( MCM). You know why frostbite 2 didn't run in wii-u? Its because all the advanced lighting system in bf3 uses ray tracing which the cell is completely capable of handling. But the stripped down latte gpu ( stripped down RV770 found in 4770) is completely under powered for it. In context of this thread, it will be bashed again and again.


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

> HSA is heterogeneous system architecture, which the cell isn't. It is a processor configured to support vector calculations thanks to the SPEs. And I wasn't even comparing the SPEs to GCN, you genius  I was comparing the SPEs to Jaguar's CPU component. First read what I wrote properly and then comment. It is obvious to anyone that GCN >>> SPE. But not the Jarguar CPU.



Extreme Gamer, please stop posting complete wrong information everywhere and don't bring where you are going to study to validate your statement. Buddy, seriously, try to learn a little.

*CELL is one of the 1st Heterogeneous Compute Design released for Consumer Grade products.* The only problem is software and framework support for it. Please just go through the Wikipedia about Heterogeneous Computing here: Heterogeneous computing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and you will find IBM CELL is listed as one of primary ones.
Also, I am not getting one thing, what is the point of comparing the performance of SPE in CELL with a normal X86 Jaguar CPU? Isn't it obvious that in parallel processing and Floating point operation capability, a Vector processor will always beat the normal X86 CPU? SPE can even beat a i7 3770K as I mentioned earlier but how does it matter here? in PS4 or XBOX Next, 8 Jaguar Cores are not the only thing available for processing, it will be done by the CPU + GPU + Unified Ram design; right? So compare the system performance with another system's, not the weak part of it with the strongest part of other? BTW, an 8 Core Jaguar is far more powerful than the PPU used in CELL.
Here is a quote from Wikipedia for CELL:


> The Cell architecture includes a memory coherence architecture that emphasizes efficiency/watt, prioritizes bandwidth over latency, and favors peak computational throughput over simplicity of program code. For these reasons, Cell is widely regarded as a challenging environment for software development.[4] IBM provides a comprehensive Linux-based Cell development platform to assist developers in confronting these challenges.[5] Software adoption remains a key issue in whether Cell ultimately delivers on its performance potential. Despite those challenges, research has indicated that Cell excels at several types of scientific computation.[6]


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 12, 2013)

Reading posts above was like reading Greek & Latin. 
I have to read up on CPU/GPU Architectures.


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

^^ You don't need to understand much, just check the Wikipedia link I have posted for Heterogeneous Computing and you will find *IBM CELL* is mentioned as one of the leading examples and then check Extreme Gamer's claim about CELL not being a HSA design. You will get the message for sure.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

HSA is the term used for AMD's APUs which were formerly known as Fusion.

I'm not denying that the Cell based PS3 does not share data between CPU and GPU. I am only pointing out that the nomenclature is incorrect.

I said "HSA is Heterogenous System Architecture, which Cell is not" because it refers to AMDs APU lineup.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogenous_System_Architecture


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

*Cliff Bleszinski praises Sony for 'really embracing' indie movement,*

*Fan-made PlayStation 4 logo is much better than the original*



Extreme Gamer said:


> HSA is the term used for AMD's APUs which were formerly known as Fusion.
> 
> I'm not denying that the Cell based PS3 does not share data between CPU and GPU. I am only pointing out that the nomenclature is incorrect.
> 
> ...




*WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!* 

Man somebody please help me control this laughter. This guy thinks HSA is AMD's nomenclature.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 12, 2013)

Sony and MS should really give Indie Devs the SDK kits cheap IMO


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Sony and MS should really give Indie Devs the SDK kits cheap IMO



Yeah valid point. They can also give them in a contractual basis involving less money.


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

Again wrong. HSA never means AMD apu series but they are one kind of implementation of HSA. Even upcoming Nvidia Maxwell is also termed as HSA Design as they are adding asymmetric units like ARM cores along with the Stream Processors in the design and providing unified programming model.
Have a look at the HSA Foundation and you,ll find members like Qualcomm, MediaTek, ARM which doesn't have any history with AMD APU.  Hsa is the name of an architecture, not any particular product. So HSA NOMENCLATURE for CELL is perfectly correct. Amd is promoting it for long and has taken lot of initiatives to make it mainstream but it is not named against any of their specific product.  Even Mobile SOC can be considered as HSA. AMD FUSION IS A TYPE OF HSA BUT SYNONYMOUS TO IT.
Your link is not opening but here is a link to make you understand : 
*developer.amd.com/resources/heterogeneous-computing/what-is-heterogeneous-computing/


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## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

*@ Extremegamer*

If you are done modifying your password, take a good read at cilus's above post. This post of mine, though off topic will act as a reminder in case you miss it.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

Guys it wasn't me who was posting that BS in the last few posts. Some of my accounts have been hijacked, and they're not limited to this forum. My twitter account and a couple of other forum accounts had also been hijacked.
I've detected it as an intrusion into my computer. I'm not surprised since I left my data open for sharing with Dead5. I need to be more careful, I guess.
This is the first time I'm posting today. Looks like the hijacker took advantage of my disagreements with you and posted this utter rubbish to reduce my credibility.

Right now I'm posting from my phone because I'm still cleaning my system.

I'm sorry this had to happen


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

Will open it shortly. Please be patients a little.

Extreme Gamer,  I have analyzed both u and Dead5's recent posts and it looks like both are coming from same ISP,  ATS NORTH DYNAMIC BROADBAD from Airtel Broadband connection.  So if somrbody was posting with your account, I think that guy and dead5 are using same connection. So any idea about who was posting using ur account?


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Will open it shortly. Please be patients a little.
> 
> Extreme Gamer,  I have analyzed both u and Dead5's recent posts and it looks like both are coming from same ISP,  ATS NORTH DYNAMIC BROADBAD from Airtel Broadband connection.  So if somrbody was posting with your account, I think that guy and dead5 are using same connection. So any idea about who was posting using ur account?



Yeah the intrusion was in my PC, and the posts were definitely being redirected from here. That much I am sure of. Dead5 sits right next to me on his computer and I know for sure it wasn't him. It was a WAN intrusion, not LAN.

For some odd reason, I was getting spam in my mailbox in these past few weeks about things I was googling. So I think the intrusion had happened a long time ago.

In any case, I've cleaned up the system (new OS install) and put my _unlicensed_ media collection under the scanner, so if there are any more threats, I should know soon. I've also changed my password through my phone, as Vickybat noticed.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 12, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Will open it shortly. Please be patients a little.
> 
> Extreme Gamer,  I have analyzed both u and Dead5's recent posts and it looks like both are coming from same ISP,  ATS NORTH DYNAMIC BROADBAD from Airtel Broadband connection.  So if somrbody was posting with your account, I think that guy and dead5 are using same connection. So any idea about who was posting using ur account?



hahahahha awesome. Debating consoles with someone who doesnt even know how to secure their account.

stop trolling man, just accept your mistake and get on with it. No need to make up excuses about how your account was compromised. 





Extreme Gamer said:


> *Yeah the intrusion was in my PC, and the posts were definitely being redirected from here. That much I am sure of. Dead5 sits right next to me on his computer and I know for sure it wasn't him*. *It was a WAN intrusion, not LAN.*
> 
> For some odd reason, I was getting spam in my mailbox in these past few weeks about things I was googling. So I think the intrusion had happened a long time ago.
> 
> In any case, I've cleaned up the system (new OS install) and put my _unlicensed_ media collection under the scanner, so if there are any more threats, I should know soon. I've also changed my password through my phone, as Vickybat noticed.



omfg, WAN intrusion? 

posts redirected?

pirated media and hax0rware? this doesnt get better

       

EDIT :

any decent hacker has the ballz to use a proxy server even when he is using compromised accounts. So..

you made this post on the 8th :

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/show-off/118889-showoff-thread-31.html#post1900565

that is yours isnt it ? 

and then 3 days later you end up here, and now you claim that those posts werent yours. Did u give ur account access to someone? Because if someone here could give me the ip i could find out. Really not a lot of trouble. So just admit if you did do that and your account did not get hacked.

@extreme_gamer stop changing your posts to booboo, and i just came accross this :

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/chit-chat...but-my-infraction-not-listed.html#post1484048

and secondly you use airtel.

cable broadband


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

It is really astonishing that the Hacker also shares same interests in Nintendo, same type of interests in gaming and have at least ideas of AMD FUSION, HSA, CELL and gpu architecture.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

*@Extremegamer.*

I didn't notice anything surprising actually. I was viewing your profile page and it showed under *current activity* - *"modifying password"* , few minutes before my post #437.
It was more of a common sense. That doesn't explain anything that you did actually.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 12, 2013)

Cilus said:


> It is really astonishing that the Hacker also shares same interests in Nintendo, same type of interests in gaming and have at least ideas of AMD FUSION, HSA, CELL and gpu architecture.



moreover, hacker along with dead5 only seems to target nintendo threads ... and some odd jobs. Hacker has some really unique tastes .  

@cilus +1



vickybat said:


> *@Extremegamer.*
> 
> I didn't notice anything surprising actually. I was viewing your profile page and it showed under *current activity* - *"modifying password"* , few minutes before my post #437.
> It was more of a common sense. That doesn't explain anything that you did actually.



maybe we should use his password and check


----------



## anirbandd (May 12, 2013)

and when i thought the argument was really heating up... 

that hacker[??] really is shyt.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 12, 2013)

I'm just gonna' just gonna point out that heterogenous computing !=  HSA and let y'all argue.

HSA is but a subset of heterogenous computing.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *@Extremegamer.*
> 
> I didn't notice anything surprising actually. I was viewing your profile page and it showed under *current activity* - *"modifying password"* , few minutes before my post #437.
> It was more of a common sense. That doesn't explain anything that you did actually.



Not sure what you mean by "common sense" here. All I'm saying is that you noticed that I was changing my password, and I stated that I did it through my phone. 

@Cilus: Not surprising, because if the intruder wants to appear like me, he has to take into account my activities before posting or it would be easy to notice that the account has been hijacked 

That being said, it seems I have to agree with a little bit of what the intruder stated, because HSA definitely refers to AMD's specification of heterogenous computing. Not only that, the HSA standard is maintained by the HSA Foundation, which was founded by AMD along with some other top chip-makers and designers in 2012. Sony is not even remotely involved, and Cell was (obviously) released in 2006 as first a part of the PS3. HSA was an evolution of the original AMD Fusion plan, thanks to the new guy who is heading AMD.

Not only that, the HSA standard has only the AMD IOMMUv2 Architectural Specification as its standard. And the IOMMUv2 only dictates memory standards. The full HSA standard is not final yet.

And not only that the Cell processor is not compliant with the HSA standard. Even Kaveri only has architectural integration. The next-gen (post-steamroller) will achieve system integration and truly comply with the HSA standard in both letter and spirit.

Heterogeneous Systems Architecture: The Next Area of Computing Inno...  (go to slide 33 of the presentation)

Do note that I am not denying the Heterogenous Compute capabilities of the Cell processor, but Heterogenous computing has been around as a concept at least since the 90s, and is not the same as Heterogenous System Architecture. HSA is an implementation of Heterogenous computing concepts, just as Cell is another one 



Spoiler



If you search "heterogenous system archtecture" on wikipedia, you will be redirected to Accelerated Processing Unit. I think that would be enough proof.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Yeah the intrusion was in my PC, and the posts were definitely being redirected from here. *That much I am sure of. Dead5 sits right next to me on his computer and I know for sure it wasn't him.* It was a WAN intrusion, not LAN.
> 
> For some odd reason, I was getting spam in my mailbox in these past few weeks about things I was googling. So I think the intrusion had happened a long time ago.
> 
> In any case, I've cleaned up the system (new OS install) and put my _unlicensed_ media collection under the scanner, so if there are any more threats, I should know soon. I've also changed my password through my phone, as Vickybat noticed.



You and Dead5 are roommates?



Cilus said:


> Will open it shortly. Please be patients a little.
> 
> Extreme Gamer,  I have analyzed both u and Dead5's *recent posts and it looks like both are coming from same ISP,  ATS NORTH DYNAMIC BROADBAD from Airtel Broadband connection.  So if somrbody was posting with your account, I think that guy and dead5 are using same connection. So any idea about who was posting using ur account?*



Are you attached to Cyber cell divison of Police? How come you know all this?  
or is this some mod privelege?


I was thinking it is the *self-proclaimed "troll"* member here who was trying his best to derail this thread(i have him in ignore list now)
who *Haecked*  Extreme's account,but then i realised, Dogs who bark,seldom bite.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> You and Dead5 are roommates?



We're brothers so naturally we are roommates.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I'm just gonna' just gonna point out that heterogenous computing !=  HSA and let y'all argue.
> 
> HSA is but a subset of heterogenous computing.



Spare this thread of baseless arguments and the kind of information we already know. And nobody has the patience and time to argue with a "genius being" like you.

HSA is nothing but a programming model and of course it complies with heterogeneous computing. The key is GPGPU computing and unified memory access control. The advent of languages like cuda, opencl, directcompute, c++ amp, they all harness gpu resources for general computing. Combine this together with a general cpu along with a common memory pool, you get an HSA model. The whole unit acts as one.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Spare this thread of baseless arguments and the kind of information we already know. And nobody has the patience and time to argue with a "genius being" like you.



No wonder you were so whole-heartedly opposing the fact that "HSA is AMD nomenclature" and claiming that "Cell is HSA".



vickybat said:


> HSA is nothing but a programming model and of course it complies with heterogeneous computing. The key is GPGPU computing and unified memory access control. The advent of languages like cuda, opencl, directcompute, c++ amp, they all harness gpu resources for general computing. Combine this together with a general cpu along with a common memory pool, you get an HSA model. The whole unit acts as one.





You have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> No wonder you were so whole-heartedly opposing the fact that "HSA is AMD nomenclature" and claiming that "Cell is HSA".



Read properly. Amd was the pioneer of developing the "HSA" with its APU and making it more mainstream. Any system architecture that has many cores (dissimilar in nature or having vector + scalar cores) is an heterogeneous architecture. The word "HSA" is derived from the founding members starting with ARM, AMD, QUALCOMM, SAMSUNG, TEXAS INSTRUMENTS,IMAGINATION AND MEDIATEK. Its not constrained with amd or a nomenclature like you think. 

HSA Explained: How Heterogenous System Architecture will improve computing - GPU Science

Maxwell will have ARM 57 cores with general nvidia gpu cores. They will be "HSA" even though there is no AMD here. Cell is an heterogeneous unit and in today's terms, it can be said it complies with HSA model.



Extreme Gamer said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about.



Don't make a laughing stock of yourself again mate.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Spare this thread of baseless arguments and the kind of information we already know. And nobody has the patience and time to argue with a "genius being" like you.
> 
> HSA is nothing but a programming model and of course it complies with heterogeneous computing. The key is GPGPU computing and unified memory access control. The advent of languages like cuda, opencl, directcompute, c++ amp, they all harness gpu resources for general computing. Combine this together with a general cpu along with a common memory pool, you get an HSA model. The whole unit acts as one.



You're trolling, right?



			
				AMD said:
			
		

> HSA creates an improved processor design that exposes the benefits and capabilities of mainstream programmable compute elements, working together seamlessly.



What is Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA)? | AMD

Recommended reading:

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadband_Engine

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogeneous_computing

Standards - HSA Foundation

*support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/48882.pdf

What is Heterogeneous Computing? | AMD

What is Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA)? | AMD

Heterogeneous Systems Architecture: The Next Area of Computing Inno...


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the heck are you trying to prove by showing me those links? It ain't the first time i'm reading them. Perhaps you should read and most of all understand them.
And yes, things you don't understand are termed as "trolling" in your own context. You yourself gave the HSA foundation link.  Read and understand. The problem with you is you jump guns without understanding a single thing.


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## Extreme Gamer (May 12, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Read properly. Amd was the pioneer of developing the "HSA" with its APU and making it more mainstream. Any system architecture that has many cores (dissimilar in nature or having vector + scalar cores) is an heterogeneous architecture. The word "HSA" is derived from the founding members starting with ARM, AMD, QUALCOMM, SAMSUNG, TEXAS INSTRUMENTS,IMAGINATION AND MEDIATEK. Its not constrained with amd or a nomenclature like you think.
> 
> HSA Explained: How Heterogenous System Architecture will improve computing - GPU Science
> 
> ...



Where is the first class GPU in cell? SPEs can hardly be called a first class GPU. Cell is primarily a CPU with heterogenous compute capabilities. Apart from that, what about the unified memory pool (not the same as unified memory access control/fully coherent DMA)?

The name HSA does not derive from the founding members. The name was coined by them. To use the name HSA, Cell has to conform to the HSA standard by getting approval from the HSA foundation.



			
				HSA Foundation said:
			
		

> If you are developing a product that implements the HSA API and  HSAIL Finalizer you will need to submit your product for compliance testing before you can use the HSA name or logo with your product or call your product compliant or conformant with HSA Specifications.  This conformance requirement will ensure consistency across implementing products for developers and their applications.
> 
> The program is in the process of formal creation, so please check back to get more details on how to validate your product(s) in the future.



Read the HSA's IOMMUv2 specification and realize how mistaken you are. Cell does not even comply with this, let alone the rest of the spec. I don't think you bothered to read post #445 properly. If you did, re-read it.

If the Maxwell architecture complies with the HSA standard and the foundation approves of it, I will agree that it is an HSA design. Until the full HSA spec sheet is out, you can't say for sure that it complies.

You're the one who is on the way to becoming a laughing stock, with your post stating that "HSA is programming model" you really showed your true colours. The college you studied in should be blacklisted if this is the BS they spew. HSA is strictly a hardware design complying with the heterogenous compute hardware design principle. Rather, it is the programming model that develops around the hardware design to take advantage of said hardware design.

For the lazybones, this is what vickybat wrote:



> HSA is nothing but a programming model and of course it complies with heterogeneous computing.


----------



## Cilus (May 12, 2013)

*domino.research.ibm.com/comm/research.nsf/8be45dd2101a4d5e85256aee006d6b6a/d87d07769001062585256ffd0046bea0/body_main/0.A16!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif

Extreme Gamer, here you will find the Unified Memory Access through EIB. And SPU can directly fetch data from memory without any help of PPU.

HSA is the term used by AMD to describe to the Heterogeneous Computing Model in such a way that Programming Models can be easily implemented to take benefit of Heterogeneous system and for this the Foundation is trying to specify some universal standards for its implementation. It does not mean that it is invented by AMD only. Any heterogeneous system which use a Unified Memory architecture and an instruction set architecture (ISA) which enables to dispatch tasks dynamically to LCU (Legacy Compute Unit) which is the conventional CPU and TCU (Throughput Compute Engine) or parallel Processing unit.  For mainstreaming it, AMD has used couple of nomenclatures like LCU, TCU, Wavefront and Work Items and defines their property under HSA implementation. But this does not mean that they weren't there before that, just were not known by these names.
Cell processor does use an unified 256 bit memory bus, known as Elemental Interconnect Bus EIB) which is directly connected to both SPU and PPU. Similarly, both PPU and SPU use a subset of 64 bit Power VMX instruction set, resulting of  same type of job queue for both SPE and PPU. So definitely it is a HSA design, you believe it or not.


----------



## vickybat (May 12, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Where is the first class GPU in cell? SPEs can hardly be called a first class GPU. Cell is primarily a CPU with heterogenous compute capabilities. Apart from that, what about the unified memory pool (not the same as unified memory access control/fully coherent DMA)?
> 
> The name HSA does not derive from the founding members. The name was coined by them. To use the name HSA, Cell has to conform to the HSA standard by getting approval from the HSA foundation.
> 
> ...



Everybody knows here what you do. And you learn to mind your language from now on.

This isn't a journalism forum. Put proper facts in a sane manner. By programming model, i meant cuda, open-cl, openmp, c++AMP etc. Without them, HSA makes no sense.
No sense at all. You being a CS student should understand this. Personal insults aren't tolerated and *i'm reporting your post for insulting my college. *
Btw i'm not even a CS graduate but Electronics and telecommunications. You should be inherently knowing these things better than me. But i suppose that's not the case.

Its not about the architecture only. You have to program accordingly so that gpu or any vector processor can perform general operations. I gave you example before. Re-read them.
A programming model is what makes HSA successful today. *Or else all those gpu's will be doing rendering only using graphics api's.* If you indeed are a CS student, you will understand this now 
and won't make meaningless posts.

There you go, Cilus just explained beautifully why cell is an HSA implementation in pure standards. Stop baseless arguments.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 12, 2013)

Cilus said:


> *domino.research.ibm.com/comm/resea...dy_main/0.A16!OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif
> 
> 
> Extreme Gamer, here you will find the Unified Memory Access through EIB. And SPU can directly fetch data from memory without any help of PPU.
> ...



Dude, Heterogenous Computing != HSA. Heterogenous computing is just an _idea_. HSA is a full fledged specification. The HSA foundation is not trying to define what heterogenous computing is, just writing and maintaining the HSA spec.

Refer to post *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/consoles/...ion-ps4-n-xbox720-n-wii-u-16.html#post1903046 to understand why Cell is not HSA compliant. Reading the IOMMU v2 spec would also help.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> HSA is the term used by AMD to describe to the Heterogeneous Computing Model in such a way that Programming Models can be easily implemented to take benefit of Heterogeneous system and for this the Foundation is trying to specify some universal standards for its implementation. It does not mean that it is invented by AMD only. Any heterogeneous system which use a Unified Memory architecture and an instruction set architecture (ISA) which enables to dispatch tasks dynamically to LCU (Legacy Compute Unit) which is the conventional CPU and TCU (Throughput Compute Engine) or parallel Processing unit.  For mainstreaming it, AMD has used couple of nomenclatures like LCU, TCU, Wavefront and Work Items and defines their property under HSA implementation. But this does not mean that they weren't there before that, just were not known by these names.
> Cell processor does use an unified 256 bit memory bus, known as Elemental Interconnect Bus EIB) which is directly connected to both SPU and PPU. Similarly, both PPU and SPU use a subset of 64 bit Power VMX instruction set, resulting of  same type of job queue for both SPE and PPU. So definitely it is a HSA design, you believe it or not.



The foundation is trying to specify universal standards for HSA, not for heterogenous computing. Please, try to distinguish between the two. Heterogenous computing is a design idea, that different kinds of processors can be used on the same chip. Heterogenous computing does not define that memory has to be unified for the entire chip. The different components can use their own chips.

Also, the fact that there is no first class GPU on the Cell does not change. Like I said, Cell is definitely heterogenous compute compliant, but it is not HSA compliant. What about remapping addresses for devices that do not support 64-bit addressing, providing page granularity control of device access to system memory? This is all from the IOMMUv2 spec.

Look at page 63 of the IOMMUv2 spec PDF. Does the Cell comply with that? Similarities of Cell with HSA are superficial at best and nonexistent at worst.



> Everybody knows here what you do. And you learn to mind your language from now on.
> 
> This isn't a journalism forum. Put proper facts in a sane manner. By programming model, i meant cuda, open-cl, openmp, c++AMP etc. Without them, HSA makes no sense.
> No sense at all. You being a CS student should understand this. Personal insults aren't tolerated and i'm reporting your post for insulting my college.
> ...



How did I insult your college? I said *IF*, so it looks like you made the BS up yourself. And as a CS student, I do know more than you. It is that obvious.

Even if HSA does not make sense without CUDA, OpenCL etc (which is not necessarily true- without them it is a PITA to program, but it isn't impossible), does not mean that HSA itself becomes a programming model. A programming model might make HSA succesful, but that does not make HSA a programming model itself.

Don't deny that you didn't call HSA a programming model. You indeed did, and dead5 and I just showed that that was completely false.


----------



## vickybat (May 13, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> How did I insult your college? I said *IF*, so it looks like you made the BS up yourself.* And as a CS student, I do know more than you. It is that obvious.*
> 
> Even if HSA does not make sense without CUDA, OpenCL etc (which is not necessarily true- without them it is a PITA to program, but it isn't impossible), does not mean that HSA itself becomes a programming model. A programming model might make HSA succesful, but that does not make HSA a programming model itself.
> 
> Don't deny that you didn't call HSA a programming model. You indeed did, and dead5 and I just showed that that was completely false.



Oh so you know how to code in binary and machine language? Coding is not journalism buddy. General purpose computing was absent before cuda,open-cl and others.
If it was possible, how come nobody did it?? Your posts don't show a single thing that points you knowing more than me. Instead of posting links, go through them properly and put things into perspective. Its not a PITA, its nearly impossible to code in a logical sense. Eventually you have to come with a programming model to work up on a particular architecture. Open-cl, cuda and all are created to code on vector processor part of gpu only. It ignores the rasterizer. X86 can also be considered as a programming model. The instructions sets are nothing but programs that enable execution units to perform operations. Assembly language is the most generic definition.

With programs only, they distinguish between an integer and a float type. FMA is also an instruction that can do simultaneous multiply and add without breaking them into smaller parts. Programming model is like a global term and can be associated with any architecture and not only HSA. You and dead5 i guess aren't smart enough to comprehend this. To comprehend what cilus and i were trying to say from the previous two pages.
Programming models were developed specially to make HSA possible that you see today. Refrain from posting off-topic from now on. You could get into trouble. Keep this as a console thread only.
Enough posting has been done from our side to make you and your brother understand. If you indeed are a CS student, learn to behave and act like one.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Oh so you know how to code in binary and machine language? Coding is not journalism buddy. General purpose computing was absent before cuda,open-cl and others.
> If it was possible, how come nobody did it?? Your posts don't show a single thing that points you knowing more than me. Instead of posting links, go through them properly and put things into perspective. Its not a PITA, its nearly impossible to code in a logical sense. Eventually you have to come with a programming model to work up on a particular architecture. Open-cl, cuda and all are created to code on vector processor part of gpu only. It ignores the rasterizer. X86 can also be considered as a programming model. The instructions sets are nothing but programs that enable execution units to perform operations. Assembly language is the most generic definition.
> 
> With programs only, they distinguish between an integer and a float type. FMA is also an instruction that can do simultaneous multiply and add without breaking them into smaller parts. Programming model is like a global term and can be associated with any architecture and not only HSA. You and dead5 i guess aren't smart enough to comprehend this. To comprehend what cilus and i were trying to say from the previous two pages.
> ...



LOL Wut?! So you mean to say that the IBM PC, the Amiga, The Commodore etc. were all _specialized_ computers? 

Define "Programming Model". None of what I think it could mean makes sense with what you have typed. 

I won't bother replying to most of what you have typed because Extreme Gamer is doing a wonderful job of dissecting it.

Oh, and the classic vickybat "Please stay on topic" when you start to lose an argument.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Oh so you know how to code in binary and machine language? Coding is not journalism buddy. General purpose computing was absent before cuda,open-cl and others.
> If it was possible, how come nobody did it?? Your posts don't show a single thing that points you knowing more than me. Instead of posting links, go through them properly and put things into perspective. Its not a PITA, its nearly impossible to code in a logical sense. Eventually you have to come with a programming model to work up on a particular architecture. Open-cl, cuda and all are created to code on vector processor part of gpu only. It ignores the rasterizer. X86 can also be considered as a programming model. The instructions sets are nothing but programs that enable execution units to perform operations. Assembly language is the most generic definition.
> 
> With programs only, they distinguish between an integer and a float type. FMA is also an instruction that can do simultaneous multiply and add without breaking them into smaller parts. Programming model is like a global term and can be associated with any architecture and not only HSA. You and dead5 i guess aren't smart enough to comprehend this. To comprehend what cilus and i were trying to say from the previous two pages.
> ...





Unlike you, I don't post links without going through them. Obviously coding is not journalism. Everybody knows that even if your fantasies indicate otherwise. 

Have you heard of ENIAC? At it's core it was a general-purpose computer. You did have to manually reconfigure (rewire) it every time you changed the tasks and objectives for the system, but that does not take away that fact. General purpose computing didn't exist before OpenCL and CUDA? Really?  Have you ever heard of Fortran? It was released ~50 years before anyone even heard of CUDA 

Learn this: GPGPU != GPC [general purpose computing] in the same way HSA != Heterogenous computing. GPGPU is an implementation of GPC.

And PITA and Nigh impossible are not mutually exclusive.

Vickybat, I think you should stick to your area of expertise, because an architecture can never be a programming model. Instruction set defines what assembly language can be used to program the back-end (i.e. the compiler) for any programming language, it does not define the architecture alone.

And FYI, don't insult my brother and I with attacks such as we're not smart enough. It is quite obvious who understands better and who does not.

And you need to rephrase "With programs only, they distinguish between an integer and a float type," because your point is not clear and frankly, that sentence is not making any sense.

And you are gravely mistaken when you say "Programming model is like a global term and can be associated with any architecture and not only HSA."

And you were the one who went off-topic. You've started to lose so now you're asking us to go back on topic.

Since it is obvious that you're definition of programming model differs from the globally accepted one, could you please post your definition here?

Another fact: neither CUDA nor OpenCL were developed with _HSA_ in mind. Could you name a single one that was? Because if "programming models were designed to make HSA possible today", you must be knowing quite a few that were designed with HSA in mind.

I am acting as a responsible CS student who is trying to prevent misinformation from spreading, TYVM.


----------



## Cilus (May 13, 2013)

1st of all, stop trying to prove you know it better because you study some particular subject in a famous university. It does not prove anything about our knowledge. Lets take your example. I am sure that you went to a very reputed school and they also teach Physics very well. But that didn't stop you to claim here that you can see changes in 200 Frames per second in games and you see it in your Monitor with the 580 2 GB SLI. Redeemer?
But you had forgotten that as per Physics, Human eye can only see differences up to 75 Frames per second, 80 Frames at max. You had also forgotten the fact that a 60 Hz display can only show 60 frames per second and 200 Frames per second can't be displayed on it. Those claims leaded us to believe that you're some kind of Mutant. But did anybody ask you about your schooling or level of education? No.

So, from now stop mentioning that you know better because you are a computer science student.




> *Also, the fact that there is no first class GPU on the Cell does not change. Like I said, Cell is definitely heterogenous compute compliant, but it is not HSA compliant. What about remapping addresses for devices that do not support 64-bit addressing, providing page granularity control of device access to system memory? This is all from the IOMMUv2 spec.*



I didn't get the point...why should we consider devices which do not support 64 Bit addressing when every component of CELL supports it?? Please explain. AFAIK, both SPE and PPE support Power PC 64 bit instruction and addressing models. But since SPEs are used for some special parallel processing like single precision FPU operations, it only support a subset of complete POWER 64 Instruction set whereas PPE support the complete set. But both support the 64 it memory addressing and general LOAD-STORE instructions. In fact, CELL supports lots of features of HSA which are still not present in current generation architecture. *So why I have to consider devices not supporting 64 bit addressing which is non-existence in CELL?*

One thing, I agree with you that CELL was never used as a true HSA design because no such software based programming was used to develop applications for CELL. While developing, the developers need to be very careful about how they are scheduling the workloads in a CELL and Cell lacks the hardware support for automatic assignment at runtime.

regarding CUDA and OPenCL, they were designed for GP-GPU programming in mind but can very easily used with minor modifications for HSA computing. That is the main reason that AMD is promoting OPenCL as an universal language for HSA programming. Just specifying some standard in hardware developement make HSA successful, you need to leverage it with supporting programming models and OPENCL is perfect example of it. So even in software field, you need to have a programming model too. For example, current generation Trinity and Llano don't support UMA but still they are considered as HSA unit and that can be implemented through well designed programming. As per you, currently there isn't any HSA chip available as neither of the CPU and GPU do have unified memory access and PST is the only one to do that. Try to get the idea 1st rather than pointing me some slide numbers.


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## Extreme Gamer (May 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> 1st of all, stop trying to prove you know it better because you study some particular subject in a famous university. It does not prove anything about our knowledge. Lets take your example. I am sure that you went to a very reputed school and they also teach Physics very well. But that didn't stop you to claim here that you can see changes in 200 Frames per second in games and you see it in your Monitor with the 580 2 GB SLI. Redeemer?
> 
> But you had forgotten that as per Physics, Human eye can only see differences up to 75 Frames per second, 80 Frames at max. You had also forgotten the fact that a 60 Hz display can only show 60 frames per second and 200 Frames per second can't be displayed on it. Those claims leaded us to believe that you're some kind of Mutant. But did anybody ask you about your schooling or level of education? No.
> 
> ...



Replies in *bold*.

I don't post links without knowing what is in them. Please actually read what is in them before replying in this manner. It is rude of you to dismiss them without even checking the contents.

And why are you only replying to me without even responding to the utter BS that Vickybat posted? I don't think any software engineer would agree with someone calling a system architecture a programming model. Programming models are developed around sys-archs. So far, I have not posted anything inaccurate or incorrect while Vickybat has gotten a free run. I even bother to post relevant examples in the form of links and those get disregarded. Instead of diverting the directions my points take, why don't you respond directly against them if they're incorrect? So don't go into the success or non-success of HSA because that is not the point being debated.


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## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

w





Extreme Gamer said:


> Replies in *bold*.
> *I never claimed that I could distinguish between 200Hz and 150Hz. I said that the "magical" 60hz cap that the folks in that thread had posted was incorrect. The eyes are analogue, not digital with refresh rates etc, light is received continuously in the eyes and no matter the average framerate, if the instantaneous framerate is not constant, the eyes will definitely perceive that feed to be less smooth than one where the instantaneous framerate is constant. Instantaneous framerate is equivalent to the delay between each frame here. Whenever I look at a 200hz video, all I see is a very abnormal video that is not at all pleasing to watch.
> 
> The point is Cell being compliant with the HSA spec, which it is not. The current generation architecture is an APU but it is not HSA. Jaguar will be the first. If cell can't do it, it does not conform to the HSA specification.
> ...



Tell me one thing... at what frames per second do eyes perceive your normal vision? There is nothing as instantaneous framerate. anything above 60fps and the eye can not make out the difference. If you have a 200hz display it means that the screen is being refreshed 200 times a second, doesnt mean that a 60fps video is playing at 200fps.

The cell is not HSA compliant, but that does not mean that it shares the same ideas with the HSA model of computing. If you are going into so much technical detail then x86 is really x86_64.

programming models need not be always designed about sys arch, in the future and even in the past sys arch has been designed about programming models. You dont even bother to read others replies and jump the gun, so why should we treat you differently?



dead5 said:


> LOL Wut?! *So you mean to say that the IBM PC, the Amiga, The Commodore etc. were all specialized computers? *
> 
> *Define "Programming Model". None of what I think it could mean makes sense with what you have typed.
> 
> ...



computers at that time werent specialized, likewise today your HSA compliant pc is not a roadrunner. 



> The main circuit board in an IBM PC is called the motherboard (IBM terminology calls it a planar). This mainly carries the CPU and RAM, and it has a bus with slots for expansion cards. On the motherboard are also the ROM subsystem, DMA and IRQ controllers, coprocessor socket, sound (PC speaker, tone generation) circuitry, and keyboard interface. The original PC also adds to this the cassette interface.
> The bus used in the original PC became very popular, and it was subsequently named ISA. While it was popular, it was more commonly known as the PC-bus or XT-bus; the term ISA arose later when industry leaders chose to continue manufacturing machines based on the IBM PC AT architecture rather than license the PS/2 architecture and its MCA bus from IBM. The XT-bus was then retroactively named 8-bit ISA or XT ISA, while the unqualified term ISA usually refers to the 16-bit AT-bus (as better defined in the ISA specifications.) The AT-bus is an extension of the PC-/XT-bus and is in use to this day in computers for industrial use, where its relatively low speed, 5 volt signals, and relatively simple, straightforward design (all by year 2011 standards) give it technical advantages (e.g. noise immunity for reliability).
> 
> 
> ...



This is why the ibm pc was indeed specialized in the true form.

oh, and this is not a debate of losing or winning, if it was ... you my friend have lost it even before it began. So lets not try to keep score... or you will end up playing mario kart which is so hardcore ( you are a small kid, no wonder mario kart is so hardcore for you ... also i never heard of valve employing underage kids )



dead5 said:


> You're trolling, right?
> 
> **en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterogeneous_computing*



*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/consoles/10487d1368417755-next-gen-console-discussion-ps4-n-xbox720-n-wii-u-lolwiki.jpg



> Heterogeneous computing systems present new challenges not found in typical homogeneous systems. The presence of multiple processing elements raises all of the issues involved with homogeneous parallel processing systems, while the level of heterogeneity in the system can introduce non-uniformity in system development, programming practices, and overall system capability. Areas of heterogeneity can include:[7]
> ISA or instruction set architecture
> Compute elements may have different instruction set architectures, leading to binary incompatibility.
> ABI or application binary interface
> ...



Dead5... my god...


@ extreme_gamer you have been banned once already for posting on the hardware thread. Do you want another ban?


*lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=1890491&fileOId=1890492



> *The Cell Broadband Engine Architecture (CBEA) is a
> heterogeneous processor architecture, originally developed for
> the PlayStation 3TM by Sony, Toshiba and IBM. The processor
> in the PlayStation 3TM is equipped with one general-purpose
> PowerPC Processor Unit (PPU) and seven1 Synergistic Processor Units (SPU)* [4].





dead5 said:


> I'm just gonna' just gonna point out that heterogenous computing !=  HSA and let y'all argue.
> 
> HSA is but a subset of heterogenous computing.



or combining scalar processing on the CPU with parallel processing on the GPU while enabling high bandwidth access to memory and high application performance at low power consumption. *HSA defines interfaces for parallel computation utilizing CPU, GPU, and other programmable and fixed function devices, and support for a diverse set of high-level programming languages, thereby creating the next foundation in general purpose computing.*

Heterogeneous computing may not be HSA in the true sense but the roots of HSA have been derived from this. Hence 90% of the functionality of the HSA is basically a heterogeneous computer running some standardized protocols. This is what HSA is .

Extreme_Gamer are you contradicting your own brother?



Extreme Gamer said:


> Where is the first class GPU in cell? SPEs can hardly be called a first class GPU. Cell is primarily a CPU with heterogenous compute capabilities. Apart from that, what about the unified memory pool (not the same as unified memory access control/fully coherent DMA)?
> 
> The name HSA does not derive from the founding members. The name was coined by them. To use the name HSA, Cell has to conform to the HSA standard by getting approval from the HSA foundation.
> 
> ...



and if you did not know, the ps3 rsx gpu is nothing but a 7800 series gpu from nvidia. that does qualify as a gpu doesnt it? or now we have to show you that the rsx is a gpu and ...... 

cell does comply with HSA, not in the true sense but with a bit of work you can get HSA to run on the ps3 

*www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc06/Day3/05a_Steinsaltz_Pres.ppt

^ these guys show you how .

*HSA is a programming model. It always was it always will be, thats like saying that open gl is not a programming model because you had AGP and PCI express cards back in the day*.


*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/consoles/10490d1368427381-next-gen-console-discussion-ps4-n-xbox720-n-wii-u-omggg.jpg

Extreme_Gamer this is really the limit, are you typing with your eyes closed ? or has the hacker taken over your system once again? 

and WAN intrusions? REALLY? !


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## Cilus (May 13, 2013)

Regarding your post of education level, why to post it in the 1st place?
2ndly, I still have the posts where you have mentioned that you can see the difference in 200FPS, saved it for some fun. DOn't mind. No cap and other stuffs were mentyioned over there. And if the instantaneous FPS is over 85 Frames per second and above, human eye hardly finds any difference.


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## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Regarding your post of education level, why to post it in the 1st place?
> 2ndly, I still have the posts where you have mentioned that you can see the difference in 200FPS, saved it for some fun. DOn't mind. No cap and other stuffs were mentyioned over there. And if the instantaneous FPS is over 85 Frames per second and above, human eye hardly finds any difference.



1 second = 1000 mili seconds 

shortest notable dark period = 16 ms which implies if you have 85fps. = 1000 / 85 = 11.76 ms . Therefor anything over 60fps ( 1000/60 ) wont matter















Extreme_Gamer enjoy your vacation


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## vickybat (May 13, 2013)

Spoiler






> Extreme Gamer said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike you, I don't post links without going through them. Obviously coding is not journalism. Everybody knows that even if your fantasies indicate otherwise.
> ...






Replies in bold.I hope this ends here. Enjoy your vacation and comeback like a responsible person.

*@Thread*

Lets keep this thread clean guys and prepare ourselves for the advent of next-gen consoles starting from the xbox next reveal on may 21st and ps4 at E3.
I hope all interested members will show up here with all sorts of news and materials related to next gen consoles and what they bring in store. Will try my best to post the entire coverage here. 

Time for some news:

*Nordic retailer lists Gran Turismo 6 for PS4*

*Wii U goes mobile*

This could be interesting and a different turn on things.

*PS4 Watch Dogs is 'a simulation that the current generation doesn't have the processing power to do'*


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

me too, will try to update this thread as soon as possible.


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## RCuber (May 13, 2013)

I thought tdf changed ..


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

RCuber said:


> I thought tdf changed ..



it did. Tdf is a stage, where some people play their part and depart.


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## darkv0id (May 13, 2013)

^ Stuff like this used to happen before?


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> ^ Stuff like this used to happen before?



you mean ?....


----------



## vickybat (May 13, 2013)

*Sony Said It Never Considered 'Always On' for PlayStation 4*

Fingers crossed on Microsoft's decision.

*Wii U Does Not Support EA's Frostbite Engine*


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 13, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *Sony Said It Never Considered 'Always On' for PlayStation 4*
> 
> Fingers crossed on Microsoft's decision.
> 
> *Wii U Does Not Support EA's Frostbite Engine*



i am wishing microsoft to go the online way, so i get a ps4


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 13, 2013)

Rumor: 'PS4 E3' video shows the console in the eyes of the beholder | Joystiq


----------



## anirbandd (May 14, 2013)

dont care if theres a war going on, but this is some damn good $hit... very learn-able.


----------



## RCuber (May 14, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> ^ Stuff like this used to happen before?



you have no clue bro


----------



## Ankit Omar (May 14, 2013)

I agree; lots of new things to learn here.


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## Extreme Gamer (May 16, 2013)

vickybat said:


> 1. Facepalm won't be your saving grace buddy. You really have no clue on anything, let alone computing.
> 2. Take up journalism coz that suits you. No wonder your posts are a far cry of anything that's remotely technical. Why the hell are you mentioning ENIAC in this context lol.
> Fortran was one of the first imperative languages ( i hope you understand what imperative means, if you have any experience with programming) developed to perform scientific calculations from a high level perspective, ideally for ibm 703. The idea was to avoid coding in assembly language. Still till this day, fortran is meant for general purpose computing for HPC applications that use a grid layout of computers or rather supercomputers. The correct term would be grid or distributed computing. Its still used for X86 architecture rather than vector processors. Like i said before, fortran just like any other high level language is for complex instructions and not used for gpgpu. It supports vector data type but isn't used in GPGPU which you confuse with GPC ( general purpose computing). High performance computing and parallel computing are different. GPGPU has to use a special programming model to harness the SIMD type architecture vector processors have. Multicore processors and vector processors are different. Fortran is used for the former. You are seriously confused. And btw, HSA is heterogeneous computing only.
> 
> ...



1. Why are you so hell-bent on proving you have no idea what you're talking about? Did you even understand what I wrote? Instead of trying to twist the issue at hand, try to respond directly.

2. You don't need to dictate what I should study, and obviously you won't find anything technical there because you don't understand these things yourself && because I don't need to use technical terms to prove my point. Besides, ENIAC is very relevant here because you've made another blunder by equating GPC and GPGPU as one and the same. Do you even remember what you wrote?



			
				vickybat said:
			
		

> General purpose computing was *absent* before cuda,open-cl and others.



This is so wrong...I just said that ENIAC was a general purpose computer from an era when people could not even _fathom_ dedicated graphics processing units, let alone GPGPUs.

Again Fortran is a very early programming language that was created with the making general purpose computing easier, and it was released in 1957, almost 50 years before CUDA and almost 9 years after ENIAC. So Fortran is very much relevant here. It just proves that above post wrong- the entire point of arguing with you.

3. You can point to Babbage's Analytical Engine all you want, but a fully functional unit was never completely constructed. This means that Lovelace's algorithms were never tested, and the accuracy can be only theorized, not realized. You're the one starting to feel it, that is why you're pointing to ancient designs without even verifying your facts. A programming model gives an architecture a reason to exist, but that does not mean an architecture _is_ a programming model! Now I'll show you why you have not verified your facts: Babbage proposed his Analytical Engine _before_ Lovelace made her algorithms. This means that an architecture was the basis for the formation of a programming model! Your folly is ROFL-worthy.

4. Do you even know what a definition is? It is the most concise way of giving the meaning of or explaining something without going into detail. So according to you I should post a page of technical jargon that a lot of people may or may not understand in a thread where that explanation may or may not be relevant (to the topic at hand). Are you serious? Or do you like to make people laugh? [sarcasm]You've made me laugh: ha...ha...ha :shrug: [/sarcasm]
Maybe you thought definitions were meant to be mugged up, and not understood. The principal concept of HSA is easy enough to understand. Why are you even bringing up parallel and grid computing? Those two concepts were not even being discussed or debated, so you have no basis for accusing me of not understanding those two concepts. Stop trying to save yourself with false accusations.

CUDA and OpenCL are not the founding pillars of HSA. The concept of heterogenous computing is. CUDA and OpenCL are a result of the convergence in general purpose computing and heterogenous computing, to bring the benefits of parallel computing in a scale that is orders of magnitude greater than what current x86-based supercomputers can provide. Of course, both CUDA and OpenCL have had applications in the consumer-oriented industries, mostly in the entertainment sector, but that is not the primary purpose of CUDA or OpenCL.

And yeah I really enjoyed my vacation, gave me enough time to comprehensively respond to and debunk your BS.

*Now, back to the topic:*

*www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-secrets-of-the-wii-u-gamepad

Pretty interesting article that gives good insights on the Wii U Gamepad.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)

Oh God,Not again


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

A few gamepad prototypes:

*medialib.computerandvideogames.com/ngamer/2012/12/wii-u-gamepad-prototype.jpg

*oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/11/GamePad1.jpg

*oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2012/11/Gamepad-back.jpg

*oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/wii-u/thumb/3/3b/WiiU_gamePadPrototypeComparison.png/441px-WiiU_gamePadPrototypeComparison.png

*www.sidequesting.com/wp-content/uploads/Screen-Shot-2012-06-03-at-3.05.46-PM.png


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)

*Wii U and 3DS-focused Nintendo Direct tomorrow*
*
Diablo III on PS4 uses touchpad for inventory*


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

^Broken link. 

Time is 1930 IST. Wii U only for Europe. Will focus on games releasing this summer with another direct before E3 in June focusing on titles releasing autumn onwards. Also confirmed for Japan as a Wii U direct.

Hoping for a TW101 release date. Kamiya trolling as usual on twitter.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)

dead5 said:


> *^Broken link. *
> 
> Time is 1930 IST. Wii U only for Europe. Will focus on games releasing this summer with another direct before E3 in June focusing on titles releasing autumn onwards. Also confirmed for Japan as a Wii U direct.
> 
> Hoping for a TW101 release date. Kamiya trolling as usual on twitter.



Links Fixed


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

Spoiler



All aboard the hype train CHOO CHOO.

*moarpowah.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Hype-Train-TRAVIS-1.png



Considering that this will mainly focus on first party titles releasing this summer I'm not expecting any megatons like in the previous directs. 

I'm mainly expecting information on Pikmin 3, TW101, Wii Party U, Game & Wario. Retro's secret project would also be nice. MH4HD ver. confirmed for the west would be an absolute bomb though. But knowing Capcom and given the recent release of MH3GHDVer. , it probably won't come out until 2014 at least(in the west).

*gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_li563rbMQs1qhpzp8o1_400.jpg


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)




----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

Ubisoft: Core gamers 'starving' for next-gen - GameSpot.com

If I have time in between current gen + cross gen, Wii U, PC, 3DS & Vita[SUP]soon[/SUP], me too.

Pick up Revelations Wii U by June 18, get signature weapon pack for free


Wii U getting bonuses over other versions o_o


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 17, 2013)

Sony Japan's mysterious Panopticon revealed in stylish new trailer- Eurogamer.net


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

EA Has No Games in Development For Nintendo's Wii U



> Brown told Kotaku that that early run of EA games on Wii U represented EA delivering on its E3 2011 partnership.



When you think about it, a company giving a bunch of half-assed overpriced late ports available for 25% of the price on other platforms to a console and calling it a day is pretty unprecedented.

Less than 30 minutes left for the Nintendo Direct


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 17, 2013)

i think we should ban you two from this thread. Stop posting bullshit.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> Oh God,Not again



seriously.. why do we even bother?


----------



## anirbandd (May 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> i think we should ban you two from this thread. Stop posting bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> seriously.. why do we even bother?



yea..

if you dont have something better to do, go play on your Wiis.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 17, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> yea..
> 
> if you dont have something better to do, go play on your Wiis *Wii-U's*.



corrected


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 17, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> yea..
> 
> if you dont have something better to do, go play on your Wiis.



I hate the Wii and the Wii U. And I did get back on topic FYI.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 17, 2013)

nevermind. Lets stay on topic.


----------



## anirbandd (May 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> corrected



Thanks 



Extreme Gamer said:


> I hate the Wii and the Wii U. And I did get back on topic FYI.



i think the one for whom the post was meant got it..


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 17, 2013)

anirbandd said:


> i think the one for whom the post was meant got it..



I'm not sure what you mean by that?

Anyway, Nintendo has confirmed the date for The Wonderful 101 as August 21, and Pikmin 3 will come out on July 26th.

New Super Luigi Bros U is not going to just be a DLC. A standalone version will be released on July 20th on Disc.

This nintendo direct was short 

Resident Evil was also previewed in this Nintendo Direct.

*uk.gamespot.com/news/wolfenstein-the-new-order-revealed-6407979

This game is going to be cross-generational. 

Another preview: *asia.gamespot.com/features/rewriti...tein-the-new-order-6408113/?tag=Topslot;Slot1

5 Reasons Why Gamers Should Buy PlayStation 4 Over Xbox 720/Durango/Infinity


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)

FINALLY
Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault hitting PS Vita May 21


RichTendo got more richer 
Nintendo reports 52 percent rise in first-party 3DS software sales


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 17, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> FINALLY
> Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault hitting PS Vita May 21
> 
> 
> ...



This is to be expected with the general lack of exciting games on the Vita. Emphasis on _general_.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 17, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> This is to be expected with the general lack of exciting games on the Vita. Emphasis on _general_.



Yep.Sony seems to be giving step-motherly treatment to the Vita by not making games for it 
While the OldStation 3 is drowning in games.....


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

Looks like my predictions were pretty accurate. Wii Party U was replaced by the latest Mario & Sonic game. Yakuza 1 & 2 announced for Japan. New partnership between Nintendo & SEGA. Sonic going Nintendo exclusive(who would have thought...).


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 17, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Yep.Sony seems to be giving step-motherly treatment to the Vita by not making games for it
> While the OldStation 3 is drowning in games.....



Agreed. Why release a console if you don't _really_ want to promote it? Maybe the internal struggles with that vulture capitalist is affecting the company.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> i think we should ban you two from this thread. Stop posting bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> seriously.. why do we even bother?



Care to point the bullshit out?

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/customavatars/avatar46107_4.gif



Extreme Gamer said:


> Agreed. Why release a console if you don't _really_ want to promote it? Maybe the internal struggles with that vulture capitalist is affecting the company.



That vulture capitalist hasn't caused any trouble yet. He plans to wait for the next financial report for that. 

The PS3 & 360 may actually end up being the main competition to the PS4 & Xbox Hobart considering that almost all the big hitters are cross gen this time.


----------



## lord1954man (May 17, 2013)

The current line-up is:
1)Theif
2)Beyond good & evil 2 
3)Killzone: Shadow Fall: 
4)The Witness 
5)Watch Dogs 
6)War Thunder 
7)Carmageddon: Reincarnation 
8)Battlefield 4 
9)Call of Duty: Ghosts 
10)Human Element 
11)Deep Down
12)Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag 
13)Diablo III 
14)Driveclub 
15)Destiny 
16)Wolfenstein: The New Order
17)Infamous: Second Son
18)Knack
19)Final Fantasy Project
20)Gran Turismo 6
21)Whore of the Orient
22)Sniper Elite 3
23)The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

For mor info click here
The current lineup is just awesome and then PS4 got game recording and sharing which is ubercool.


*********************************************************************************************************
One day 8 god created Manchester United & Marvel . and they were Awesome.
Want Awesomeness delivered go to Awesome Cool Stuff | This blog has awesome things for awesome people


----------



## heidi2521 (May 17, 2013)

*i.imgur.com/bHJQMUt.png

SEGA direct . Sonic exclusivity is pretty awesome too(A kiloton, but not a megaton). Hoping that they go the style of Sonic Colours/Generations and stay away from Sonic 06 and Sonic Heroes. 

It is supposed to be a partnership(or possibly collaboration) between Nintendo and SEGA so we can hope that some of the EAD Tokyo magic is infused into the game. 

*twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/335416341957844992



> #IwataSays We will discuss new Smash Bros., 3D Mario game, Mario Kart and other Wii U titles in our #NintendoDirectNA before the start of E3



Play Nintendo E3 Games At Select Best Buy Stores | My Nintendo News

Letting more people play upcoming games _may_ actually be a more effective marketing tool than a live conference.

Sega Europe hands Sonic publishing duties to Nintendo | GamesIndustry International

So now Nintendo has a partnership with Namco, Sega & Atlus. Wonder with whom else they will partner.

*i.imgur.com/uJDrOHm.jpg

Looks awesome.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 18, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Care to point the bullshit out?
> 
> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/customavatars/avatar46107_4.gif
> 
> ...



i think its time a script kiddie like you learned some manners. i do not want to dirty this thread. You work for valve dont you? or you dont do you?  or atleast your brother has a steam account ? come on steam.. we can sort out our personal differences there. 

for gods sake stop cluttering this thread with nintendoganda, keep your wiiu to yourself and be happy. We dont want to know we dont care.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 18, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> i think its time a script kiddie like you learned some manners. i do not want to dirty this thread. You work for valve dont you? or you dont do you?  or atleast your brother has a steam account ? come on steam.. we can sort out our personal differences there.
> 
> for gods sake stop cluttering this thread with nintendoganda, keep your wiiu to yourself and be happy. We dont want to know we dont care.



First you need to clean up your own act. This thread is meant for not only X720 and PS4, but also Wii U. Just because you don't want to talk about the Wii U, does not mean that you get the right to tell others what they can or can't post in this thread, especially when their posts are relevant here.

Now, on topic:

x720

WRUP: Xbox 720? NeXbox? Xboxfinity? | Joystiq

Bill Gates Has Xbox 720 To Thank For New Wealth Growth Spurt - Forbes

Xbox Wire launched as official Xbox blog days before Xbox 720 reveal - News - Trusted Reviews

Wii U

News: EA engineer slams Wii U viability for third parties - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

Not surprised, because this is EA we're talking about. They release bad games and then blame the hardware makers. They're just bitter they could not put up Origin into the Wii U. And the Wii U is certainly more powerful than the x360.

Nintendo will show off unreleased Wii U games at Best Buy stores during E3 | The Verge


----------



## heidi2521 (May 18, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> i think its time a *script kiddie like you* learned some manners. i do not want to dirty this thread. You work for valve dont you? or you dont do you?  or atleast your brother has a steam account ? come on steam.. we can sort out our personal differences there.
> 
> for gods sake stop cluttering this thread with nintendoganda, keep your wiiu to yourself and be happy. We dont want to know we dont care.



Look who's talking. This isn't about personal differences. I am simply asking you to justify your claim that Extreme Gamer posted bullshit.

And do you *seriously* think I'll give my steam ID to you?

And, like it or not the Wii U is a next gen console which is on topic in this thread. 

*On topic:*

Box art for Lord Kamiya's latest creation:

*i.imgur.com/lInmVs8.jpg



Extreme Gamer said:


> First you need to clean up your own act. This thread is meant for not only X720 and PS4, but also Wii U. Just because you don't want to talk about the Wii U, does not mean that you get the right to tell others what they can or can't post in this thread, especially when their posts are relevant here.
> 
> Now, on topic:
> 
> ...



That genius also said that EA is focusing on the 4th gen(SNES & Mega Drive), thinks that Nintendo should have bankrupted themselves, thinks that the primary target audience of the Wii U is casuals and families(B2, ZombiU & MH3U are _so_ casual) and thinks that losing their developer freedom is good for a company. 

The Nintendo Cycle:

0. Nintendo launches a new console
1. 3rd parties make overpriced half-assed late ports for Nintendo consoles
2. They don't sell well because consumers are better informed and won't just buy any crap
3. They blame Nintendo's fanbase for not buying the game and Nintendo for making a bad console

Lather, rinse repeat. 

When 3rd parties actually try and understand and make games that are not half assed overpriced shovelware you see that they do quite well in the same fanbase. Eg. SAASRT sold the most on the Wii U. MH3G HD ver. was called a smash hit on the  Wii U by Capcom, ZombiU was considered a success by Ubisoft on the Wii U, Level 5's primary target platform are Nintendo handhelds, Atlus has done much better on the DS and 3DS than they ever did on the PS2, Rayman Origins sold most on the Wii etc.

*news.xbox.com/2013/05/x360-aaron-greenberg-industry-growth?sc_device=slideshow

Microsoft projects 385 mn consoles sold in gen 8.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 18, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Replies in Red
@dead5,extreme : Please,ignore the idiotic *self proclaimed troll*,add him to your ignore list

*www.keepcalmstudio.com/_gallery/300/SOGCCM.png
Remember "_Don't argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience_"


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 18, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Replies in Red
> @dead5,extreme : Please,ignore the idiotic *self proclaimed troll*,add him to your ignore list
> 
> *www.keepcalmstudio.com/_gallery/300/SOGCCM.png
> Remember "_Don't argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience_"



You're right, but Dead5's point #2 was from the consumer's PoV, not EA's.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 18, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Replies in Red
> @dead5,extreme : Please,ignore the idiotic *self proclaimed troll*,add him to your ignore list
> 
> *www.keepcalmstudio.com/_gallery/300/SOGCCM.png
> Remember "_Don't argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience_"



Although not incorrect, I'm not sure how your reply invalidates mine. People will buy the console itself for nintendo exclusives but that doesn't mean that they will ignore 3rd party games. Like I pointed out SAALSRT(Wii U, PC, PS3, Xbox 360, 3DS, PS Vita) & Rayman Origins ( PC, Wii, PS3, Xbox 360, 3DS, Vita) are multi plat but did much better on Nintendo platforms than any other. And I can point out the Megaten series. Devil Survivor 2(spinoff) et al. did much better financially than Lucifer's Call(mainline). Even ACIII did well on the Wii U according to Ubi. Ni No Kuni did better on the DS than the PS3 inspite of the PS3 version having much heavier promotion and a much wider release. Even Arkham City(a late port that was not half-assed) did well enough to warrant the prequel coming to Wii U. Scribblenauts Unlimited(not out in Europe or Japan yet on the Wii U) also did well enough on the Wii U to get Scribblenauts X DC Universe on the Wii U.

Eg. Given a choice between a choppy, unsupported, rushed, buggy version of Mass Effect 3 which did not get any DLC(not even the  free ones) or the Mass Effect Trilogy on other consoles, you can guess which one people will go for. Or NFSMWU with only 6 racers instead of 8 at 45 GBP v. 8 at 15 - 20 GBP on other consoles with all 8 racers. 
Most people who were going to buy these games probably already had another console on which these came out and the sales for such titles are extremely front loaded. These are not entrypoint games.

Another example would be Gunman Clive outselling the iOS and Android versions on the 3DS eShop inspite of being priced higher and being a featured app on Google Play.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 18, 2013)

Mario is the 2nd best selling franchise(7th gen) according to Ubi
1st best selling is CoD


----------



## heidi2521 (May 18, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Mario is the 2nd best selling franchise(7th gen) according to Ubi
> 1st best selling is CoD



I'm not sure how this qualifies as *next gen* console discussion . 

You had 6 major mario titles across two platforms (SMG, SMG2, MKWii, MKDS, NSMBW, NSMB) in 7th gen vs. how many for COD? 

All units in millions

10.69(SMG)
+6.36(SMG2)
+34.01(MKWii)
+22.57(MKDS)
+27.61(NSMBW)
+30.18(NSMB)
= 191.81

Source: *www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2013/130131e.pdf

This does not include spin offs like Mario Party, Super Princess Peach, Donkey Kong etc. and remakes like SM64 DS so the overall sales are much more for the franchise.

Assuming 20 mn sales every major CoD title in 7th gen(a laughable assertion) we get 160(CoD 2 - BO2 make 8) mn in 7th gen so something is amiss. The "Mario" franchise Ubi refers to is probably not the same as the one Nintendo refers to.

I wonder how the "Wii" franchise(Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Wii Fit Plus, Wii Party, Wii Play etc.) performed. Feeling too lazy to scrape data.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 18, 2013)

dead5 said:


> *I'm not sure how this qualifies as next gen console discussion .
> *
> You had 6 major mario titles across two platforms (SMG, SMG2, MKWii, MKDS, NSMBW, NSMB) in 7th gen vs. how many for COD?
> 
> ...



No this was more like a question for the sony fanboys out here "If Mario is so childish,how come its the second best-selling franchise?"
strangely in Ubi's 20 Best selling franchise in 8 years list,not a single PS exclusive series is listed


----------



## heidi2521 (May 18, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> No this was more like a question for the sony fanboys out here "If Mario is so childish,how come its the second best-selling franchise?"
> strangely in Ubi's 20 Best selling franchise in 8 years list,not a single PS exclusive series is listed



Oh, Come on. That hardly qualifies as "Next gen console discussion" either. This is not "Is Mario/Nintendo childish or not" discussion. 

The only explanations I see for Ubi's claims are:

1. They are full of **** <--- Possible
2. They split the franchises/excluded games in such a manner that their games come up higher.<---- Probably what happened. 

If the data is correct, Mario should still be first best selling franchise so that would be a more potent question .


----------



## heidi2521 (May 20, 2013)

Ubisoft reaffirms its faith in Nintendo | GamesIndustry International

Ubisoft thinks that Nintendo will turn the Wii U around

NES – notenoughshaders.com – Wii U: Two Years of Negative Brand Momentum

3D Dot Game Heroes Developer Provided Tech For Square Enix's Luminous Engine | Siliconera

Interesting interview. Silicon Studio is the developer of Bravely Default: Flying Fairy.

EA's Wii U Vendetta - Is Electronic Arts Trying to Kill the Wii U?

To add to the article, I think that EA wants to kill the Wii U off and make Nintendo exit the console space because a M$ony duopoly would be beneficial for them. Historically, the 3rd party dominance has been skewed away from them on Nintendo platforms. EA, Activision and Take2 have been amongst the bottom most publishers on Nintendo platforms while they were top in others. Instead, SEGA, Capcom, THQ (RIP), Ubisoft etc. have done much better on these platforms than others.

Next Xbox will not be always connected:

*www.gametrailers.com/videos/hfvn5o/pach-attack--xbox-predictions



			
				Pachter said:
			
		

> As much as it pains, this always-on, always connected rumor is starting to sound like it might be real


----------



## heidi2521 (May 20, 2013)

*twitter.com/thurrott/status/336475059604570112



			
				Thurrott said:
			
		

> A couple of Xbox news tidbits ahead of the launch... Illumiroom will be part of Tues event, subsidized Xbox v.Next model has been scrapped.





*kotaku.com/what-the-next-playstation-and-xbox-need-to-get-right-508830626

The best part was:



> Sony and Microsoft must avoid putting up *new and alarming DRM schemes*, and focus on enabling the cool new game experiences that seamlessly connected consoles allow.



Coming from Riccitello 

Crowdfarter : Game & Wario for Wii U

Nintendo is promoting Game & Wario with a crowdfarter.


----------



## RCuber (May 21, 2013)

#XboxReveal 
Xbox, A New Generation Revealed - Xbox.com


----------



## heidi2521 (May 21, 2013)

BBC News - Xbox revealed: Experts on Microsoft's next games console

Dear Molyneux: No one cares about your opinions any more. 

*imageupload.co.uk/files/7vsfbtjrkaefv9w1a2cm.jpg

Only tangentially related but:

*i.minus.com/ibbKyeGlNEBJd4.png

Damn Volkswagen for holding back my Ferraris.

Panopticon revealed as a Vita title. Looks like another of Sony's attempts at a Monster Hunter killer. 

Sony trolling people searching for the next Xbox. 

*abload.de/img/beyondtheboxzty4x.png

Ex-GTA producer: Don't expect 3 consoles in next, next gen | Tech Culture - CNET News



> *"It's going to be very challenging for Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo,"* said Pope, who is currently running a mobile startup he founded called Rally Games. "I wouldn't be surprised if we see by the next generation some consolidation of some sort -- it seems hard to fathom that we're going to have these three big players again and again with the way everything is shaking out."





> The dynamics of the console market are making it more difficult to compete, Pope said. *He noted that several companies have stopped developing console games "because it's become so expensive, so time-consuming, and only the major players can partake, which means you get projects that aren't as creative and projects where you aren't as involved because you're a smaller cog in the machine."*



Western next gen consoles aren't gonna reduce said costs. Lets hope that studios like Mistwalker(Sakaguchi's studio founded after he left SE) survive. They may decide to go handheld primary/only due to skyrocketing costs. 

*i.imgur.com/Hg3klDh.jpg

Sony is on a troll today.


----------



## vickybat (May 21, 2013)

Watch the coverage here people:

Next-Gen Xbox Infinity ∞


Streaming is surprisingly good. I'm watching it currently.!!!!!

Its called *"XBOX ONE"*.

It kinda looks like a *VCR*.

*i.imgur.com/k7aA3I1.jpg

The gesture controls are* AMAZINNNNGGGGGG* though.

Man, i've never seen such dynamic gestures controls before. Switching between live tv, movies and gaming is just like pressing a remote button.
Microsoft has nailed it here.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 21, 2013)

Where were the games?


----------



## RCuber (May 21, 2013)

Looks like a VCR  , not too impressed with games demo's shots but other features were good enough, cant wait till E3 to look at the competition.  

Call of Duty still looks the same


----------



## heidi2521 (May 21, 2013)

Oh my god. This conference is hilarious. Why would I want a Xbox One when I already have a 360? Seriously, who thought of that name. 

My takeaway is: Kinect, Kinect, Kinect, Skype, ESPN, DVR, Kinect, FIFA, Buzzwords, NHL, COD, Kinect. 

Was this conference some sort of giant farce?

They appear to be targeting the kind of people(read: casual dudebros) who buy the same things over and over again. 

The number of bullshots were amazing. 

I wonder if M$ had anything to do with the EA's Nintendo backstab?


----------



## darkv0id (May 21, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Where were the games?



I'm not really surprised. This event was most likely an attempt to project the console as an entertainment hub to appeal to casual audiences, rather than just a gaming machine. Fine with me, as long as we see some good stuff at E3.

Why would anyone name they name their 3rd console as Xbox One though, I have no idea.

EDIT: Apparently you _might_ have to fork out extra $$$ to play used games (via Wired)



> What follows naturally from this is that each disc would have to be tied to a unique Xbox Live account, else you could take a single disc and pass it between everyone you know and copy the game over and over. Since this is clearly not going to happen, each disc must then only install for a single owner.
> 
> Microsoft did say that if a disc was used with a second account, that owner would be given the option to pay a fee and install the game from the disc, which would then mean that the new account would also own the game and could play it without the disc.


----------



## vickybat (May 21, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> I'm not really surprised. This event was most likely an attempt *to project the console as an entertainment hub*, rather than just a gaming machine. Fine with me, as long as we see some good stuff at E3.
> 
> Why would anyone name they name their* 3rd console as Xbox One though, I have no idea.*



You've kinda answered your question in your post. "One" signifies marrying everything onto a console. Its a settop box for live tv, a video player, a gaming machine, socially active system and lot others. The gesture controls were amazing though. I don't think even sony can match it here. This isn't the old kinect. The sensors seemed like far more tactile with almost 1:1 response.

The VCR like system is kind of replicating small server design which incorporates pc hardware. To cool stuff like that, instead of making aesthetically beautiful, going for a better form factor with optimal cooling makes more sense. Besides, that console won't look out of place in a living room or i must say.........*it won't look like a toy!!!!*

For games, E3 is the platform. So no surprises there. The conference was great and they actually showed the console physically. 
More than enough to grab attention and take away the spotlight from a recent dubious console from a soon to be doomed company.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> The conference was great and they actually showed the console physically.
> More than enough to grab attention and take away the spotlight from a recent *dubious console from a soon to be doomed company.*



What makes you think anyone would take your opinions seriously when they see these kind of fanboy garbage? 

As for how I feel about the entire conference, i was bored, probably coz I'm not a living room entertainment guy. The games weren't anything unique either, except for the remedy's new game which was screwed up by the lame trailer. Good thing we have Sony who aren't jumping on 'family-only' bandwagon. *Embrace the core!!* 

EDIT - No backwards compatibility? oh well.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> I'm not really surprised. This event was most likely an attempt to project the console as an entertainment hub to appeal to casual audiences, rather than just a gaming machine. Fine with me, as long as we see some good stuff at E3.
> 
> Why would anyone name they name their 3rd console as Xbox One though, I have no idea.
> 
> EDIT: Apparently you _might_ have to fork out extra $$$ to play used games (via Wired)



Well, EA just removed its online pass. MS anounced a strong(perhaps even _unprecedented_) partnership with EA. And now they have an offline pass. Seems a little too perfect to be a coincidence to me. 

According to Yahoo finance Sonys shares we  up 9%. 

With this gamers appear to have been sidelined. They showed exactly zero gameplay footage. They want to make this a glorified roku that you use to play Fifa and CoD rather than primarily a gaming platform like the Wii U or PS4.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> As for how I feel about the entire conference, i was bored, probably coz I'm not a living room entertainment guy. The games weren't anything unique either, except for the remedy's new game which was screwed up by the lame trailer. Good thing we have Sony who aren't jumping on 'family' bandwagon. *Embrace the core!!*



The conference was boring without games but the gesture controls were the main highlight of the show. I'm not a living room type of guy either, but stuff like this is of great help for a console that entertains in the broadest sense. I hope sony's design isn't that of a toy. From the teaser, i kinda think they've done a commendable job in designing it.

Btw the controller seems to be a let down. Its like a rehash of the old xbox controller.

Backward compatibility will be through cloud services, just like PS4. I mean placing the xenon/xenos chip into an x86 architecture would have been unnecessary.
They've done the right thing in this department.

**www.engadget.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-hardware-and-specs/*


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

That's not exactly backward compatibility. Like, I can't play my copy of halo reach on xbox one unless I pay a small amount of money.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> That's not exactly backward compatibility. Like, I can't play my copy of halo reach on xbox one unless I pay a small amount of money.



Well you can still play it on your 360 if you have a copy. Backward compatibility from an engineering standpoint isn't a viable option. I mean imagine putting the cell processor into a ps4.
Not only it takes the cost sky high, but also posses a lot of mismatch issues. The architectures of current gen and next gen is like apples and oranges.

Cloud services are the only sane methods to make backward compatibility possible. Sony also took the same direction due to the same reasons.
Besides, there may be a way of authenticating a game disc so as to stream it for free over cloud.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

*imgur.com/e0cIP2E.jpg
*twitter.com/AdamSessler/status/336901672662077443

Just WTH MS?


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

"Most expensive remote in the world"  LOL!

*sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/181398_536676956374780_1601229999_n.jpg


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

Been looking everywhere but no info on the GPU. Does anyone have any idea what sort of GPU they are using? SOC or discrete?


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Building Xbox One: An inside look at Microsoft's play for the next generation of gaming
Iwata Asks | 1. Introduction | Iwata Asks: NERD | Nintendo

Iwata asks NERD


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Well you can still play it on your 360 if you have a copy.



Do you work for Microsoft in anyway? coz every response of yours sounds like a solution given by the men in suits 




> *twitter.com/AdamSessler/status/336901672662077443
> 
> Just WTH MS?



I noticed that, but it didn't occur to me at all. Everybody was press, busy with their laptops and tablets, where the hell was the cheering coming from?!  Typical *American Marketing*.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

The great thing is that the sensor comes  bundled with the console. This new kinect is what separates Xbox one from the rest.
I'm actually eager to see what the new PlayStation eye can do as an answer to this. 

But it's really doubtful if it can achieve the same thing, the xbox one has. The gesture controls are truly the highlight reel of the show.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> The gesture controls are truly the highlight reel of the show.



Indeed, it was the greatest technological innovation ever. /s


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Do you work for Microsoft in anyway? coz every response of yours sounds like a solution given by the men in suits



Hehe, i wish i was.  Well its nothing out of the world. The solution is more generic than you think. I mean what else would stop them from integrating the older chips.
Sony followed the same too.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

*twitter.com/kevin__lynch/status/336911362129281024
Xbox One: live TV available in US only at launch, requires separate device | VG247

Mandatory plug in kinect and second box necesa
rry. smh.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> Been looking everywhere but no info on the GPU. Does anyone have any idea what sort of GPU they are using? SOC or discrete?



Its an SOC just like PS4. Gpu details will surface sometime later, maybe after E3. I guess the previous rumors were true and you can go by them.
It has to be a fully customized 12-14 core GCN gpu with 8 jaguar cores in a heterogeneous mold. Like the PS4, the gpu is heavily customized by AMD allowing more compute instruction in queue ( 64 to be precise) which is actually far more than the desktop counterparts. Its an APU just like PS4 albeit with 8gb DDR3 ram.


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Its an SOC just like PS4. Gpu details will surface sometime later, maybe after E3. I guess the previous rumors were true and you can go by them.
> It has to be a fully customized 12-14 core GCN gpu with 8 jaguar cores in a heterogeneous mold. Like the PS4, the gpu is heavily customized by AMD allowing more compute instruction in queue ( 64 to be precise) which is actually far from than the desktop counterparts. Its an APU just like PS4 albeit with 8gb DDR3 ram.



Hmm, thanks.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

@darkvoid they are using an APU. That should automatically discount discrete.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

15 exclusives in first year out of which eight are brand new ip's is really something. I hope Microsoft delivers their promise in time.
Quantum Break looked highly promising.


----------



## Thunder (May 22, 2013)

wtf man. Is this for real ?
www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbo...ched?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

The new COD engine looks promising. There ain't any static lighting anymore. The character models were a huge upgrade.
This time, a new academy award winning writer is penning the script. Hope we get an immersive experience from a pure storytelling perspective.



Thunder said:


> wtf man. Is is for real ?
> www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbo...ched?utm_campaign=fbposts&utm_source=facebook



Kinect will be bundled so no issues.  That thing is actually going to be the driving force for this console. 
Its more like building an interactive webpage (using canvas in html5) without using javascript. The new sensor is what makes the console smart just like javascript makes a webpage smart.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> The new COD engine looks promising.



Are you serious? it looked ugly. No wonder they were so desperate to show off the rendered videos, images, wireframe models and effects. It looked plain ugly. Honest opinion, Bf4 pooped all over this.


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Are you serious? it looked ugly. No wonder they were so desperate to show off the rendered videos, images, wireframe models and effects. It looked plain ugly. Honest opinion, Bf4 pooped all over this.



Well I wouldn't call it ugly, but I agree, Frostbite 3 looked way better than this.

On a side note though, if the PS4 keeps the same used game model as this gen (i.e. no fee for playing a used game), then the Xbox is in some hot water.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Are you serious? it looked ugly. No wonder they were so desperate to show off the rendered videos, images, wireframe models and effects. It looked plain ugly. Honest opinion, Bf4 pooped all over this.



I would say its better to wait for E3 to see a playable demo before commenting. The character models were no spoof and were real. Its a next gen console and models like that are expected.
Its GCN under the hood so expect all kind of compute based ray-tracing (dynamic lighting) along with particle effects. I would say it would be a major update in technology from previous COD titles.
Both next-gen consoles along with PC are more than capable of handling stuff like these.

BF4 actually blew me over and they showed an actual playable demo. Then again, i reckon waiting for E3 would be good.


*Talking Point: How Has Xbox One's Reveal Affected Your Anticipation for PS4?*


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I would say its better to wait for E3 to see a playable demo before commenting. The character models were no spoof and were real. Its a next gen console and models like that are expected.
> Its GCN under the hood so expect all kind of compute based ray-tracing (dynamic lighting) along with particle effects. I would say it would be a major update in technology from previous COD titles.
> Both next-gen consoles along with PC are more than capable of handling stuff like these.





darkv0id said:


> Well I wouldn't call it ugly





In the sense that the output looked ugly, apart from the obvious improvements in detailed models. What's the point of pushing everything on the inside and the output looks ugly? The underwater scene from crysis 1 looked better than this.


----------



## win32.tr0jan (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> In the sense that the output looked ugly, apart from the obvious improvements in detailed models. What's the point of pushing everything on the inside and the output looks ugly? The underwater scene from crysis 1 looked better than this.



But CoD series have been much better than BF3 and Crysis in storyline and gameplay. The new engine focuses more on gameplay like keeping your momentum while running over obstacles, dynamic maps in multiplayer etc. FrostBite is awesome, but needs some heavy hardware to run it smoothly, whereas CoD lets you enjoy the game in a decent configuration. Anyways, lets wait till E3 ... they have promised a lot more @ E3


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

worst reveal ever. Micro and nintendi are out of the next gen league. With all that hardware, a xbox one is going to cost around 450$... unlike the last time where there was a 100$ price difference, Microsoft is gonna get screwed really hard.

you need to be online whenever you want to start a multiplayer game like steam. LOL

lets just say the ps2 times are here...

i was thinking during the reveal.... xbot one ? when the guy says " Xbox show me the fantasy "



win32.tr0jan said:


> But CoD series have been much better than BF3 and Crysis in storyline and gameplay. The new engine focuses more on gameplay like keeping your momentum while running over obstacles, dynamic maps in multiplayer etc. FrostBite is awesome, but needs some heavy hardware to run it smoothly, whereas CoD lets you enjoy the game in a decent configuration. Anyways, lets wait till E3 ... they have promised a lot more @ E3



lets just say im expecting nothing more than a forza, a gow , and the new ip. i think they meant they will release 15 new ip's not all hardcore. 4-5 Hardcore rest 10 kinect based. 

while the ps4 has a lot on its hands. i mean it hasnt even released yet and the numbers are going up day by day.

and all that video / audio input gestures use a lot of computing power... so i dont understand is microsoft trying to reinvent the TV or is microsoft trying to reinvent trolls?



cyborg47 said:


> In the sense that the output looked ugly, apart from the obvious improvements in detailed models. What's the point of pushing everything on the inside and the output looks ugly? The underwater scene from crysis 1 looked better than this.



+1, no comparison. Cod engine was getting old like really old, so it needed a reboot anyways.



dead5 said:


> Oh my god. This conference is hilarious. Why would I want a Xbox One when I already have a 360? Seriously, who thought of that name.
> 
> My takeaway is: Kinect, Kinect, Kinect, Skype, ESPN, DVR, Kinect, FIFA, Buzzwords, NHL, COD, Kinect.
> 
> ...



there are only 3 things in the world, which sell

kinect, kinect and kinect 

even the casuals wont want to buy another cable streaming box, when they own a skybox...


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

win32.tr0jan said:


> But CoD series have been much better than BF3 and Crysis in storyline and *gameplay*. The new engine focuses more on gameplay like keeping your momentum while running over obstacles, dynamic maps in multiplayer etc. FrostBite is awesome, but needs some heavy hardware to run it smoothly, whereas CoD lets you enjoy the game in a decent configuration.



I hope you were joking about the gameplay part, everyone knows the gameplay is a joke compared to BF. 

The *previous* engine allowed better framerates compared to Frosbite; the previous engine didn't have those features you mentioned either. I think system requirements will jump quite a bit with this new engine.

Also, I was amused by how delusional infinity Ward were about their games. "State-of-the-art MW3 textures" "Best fans in the world" who do they think they are kidding ?


----------



## win32.tr0jan (May 22, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> so i dont understand is microsoft trying to reinvent the TV or is microsoft trying to reinvent trolls?


LoL! true. Guess they got stuck with trying to find new ideas for the Xbox and thought of integrating other stuff into it :/



darkv0id said:


> I hope you were joking about the gameplay part, everyone knows the gameplay is a joke compared to BF.
> 
> The *previous* engine allowed better framerates compared to Frosbite; the previous engine didn't have those features you mentioned either. I think system requirements will jump quite a bit with this new engine.



From CoD Black Ops, the gameplay along with the storyline creates a sense of involvement to the gamers. The curiosity of what is going to happen and the dramatic cut-scenes are the things that drive gamers to CoD. BF4 had much better graphics but was poor in storyline.

Yea, the new engine *might* need a little more spec, but its not going to be as far as BF4's demands.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Phil Harrison tries (again) to clarify game ownership, second-hand sales and always-online in Xbox One &bull; News &bull; Xbox 720 &bull; Eurogamer.net

From what I understood, Xbox One(/Ten) essentially work like steam when it comes to used games. You can play at your mates home but you will need to sign in to play and if he wants to play the game in his own profile he will have to pay.

Note: The "/she" is implicit in the above paragraph.

They will have another mechanism for used games that we don't know about, which will probably line M$'s pockets in some way.

You will need to be online while installing the game and possibly while starting the console/game for this mechanism to work.



> We think that most of the biggest games on Xbox One and most of the games and experiences and services you want to use will be internet-connected."



No focus on well made deep single player games confirmed. Focusing on fishsticks and dudebros.

User nib95's summary of the Xbox One(/Ten).



> - Forced online activation for all games
> - Complex used games system that is anti consumer
> - Charged fee for playing used games on non linked profile
> - Console that needs to be connected to internet every 24 hours to play games
> ...



*neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=561777



*i.imgur.com/ZUfiTxQ.png

*fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/375084_10200819584828425_1785160382_n.jpg



Kaz right now:

*i.imgur.com/zX0TA.gif

So far the target audience appears to be:

-Not Japan: Massive Size, Forced Kinect, No gameplay.
-Not Europe: As far as Europeans are concerned it is an underpowered, oversized(probably) PS4.
-Not the hardcore: If they were focusing on us they would actually have shown us gameplay and whatever new innovations and gameplay they came up with.
-Not Indies/ Indie gamers: Exactly zero indie support, no developers came on stage. 

So the only option left is:

-Murican dudebros: NHL, CoD [redacted] yeah.


----------



## Digital Fragger (May 22, 2013)

Hope the new controller works well with pc.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

*www.gameinformer.com/b/features/ar...-ones-chief-product-officer-marc-whitten.aspx

Looks like they have taken a page from SimCity's books on the cloud "enhancing" AI.

*twitter.com/Espio1/status/336998311452098562



> Just interviewed Phil Harrison. Reaffirmed that second hand games need to be repurchased. Declined to comment on 24hr online requirement





Angry Joe hits the nail on its head.

*www.dsogaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Untitled-Fifa14-PC.jpg

@Xbox/PSFans: Do you consider the PC last gen based on this news now?


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 22, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> worst reveal ever. Micro and nintendi are out of the next gen league. With all that hardware, a xbox one is going to cost around 450$... unlike the last time where there was a 100$ price difference, Microsoft is gonna get screwed really hard.
> 
> you need to be online whenever you want to start a multiplayer game like steam. LOL
> 
> ...



For the first time in your life, you are actually making _some_*** sense. Congratulations!

@Vickybat: Dude seriously, what is wrong with you? Kinect is not *bundled*. You're essentially paying $100-150 more at the very least for a device that is _required_ for the console to work. The steam like DRM makes it even worse. And what if people want to play X360 games but don't want to have two boxes in your house?
COD looks _BETTER?!_   That is the worst joke I could have ever heard _ever._

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/consoles/10665d1369203344-next-gen-console-discussion-ps4-n-xbox720-n-wii-u-3uicwl.jpg

Bill Gates revealing Xbox 1 
*i.imgur.com/6XD06Wt.jpg

*Other than the Nintendo bits.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

Vickybat is steve ballmer! truth! 


EDIT - go home xbox, you're drunk 

[youtube]KbWgUO-Rqcw[/youtube]


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> For the first time in your life, you are actually making some sense. Congratulations!
> 
> @Vickybat: Dude seriously, what is wrong with you? Kinect is not *bundled*. You're essentially paying $100-150 more at the very least for a device that is _required_ for the console to work. The steam like DRM makes it even worse. And what if people want to play X360 games but don't want to have two boxes in your house?
> COD looks _BETTER?!_   That is the worst joke I could have ever heard _ever._
> ...



Implying that the console that plays MH and Lord Kamiya's masterpieces looked bad 

The best use for the Xbox's voice controls. 

*i.qkme.me/3uij7d.jpg

*i.qkme.me/3uiakm.jpg

The conference in a nutshell:

*i.imgur.com/pXYiyG0.jpg
*i.imgur.com/6d8fJiJ.jpg
*i.imgur.com/dbOs1rB.jpg
*i.imgur.com/jlyNiFH.jpg
*i.imgur.com/2kdAUbF.jpg
*i.imgur.com/SMNlBvF.jpg

Can't say I disagree with this. 

*i.imgur.com/DKlcYWf.jpg


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

Am I the only one who _likes_ the Xbox One's design? I mean, while it's not as aesthetically pleasing as the PS3, I certainly think it looks better than the 360.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> Am I the only one who _likes_ the Xbox One's design? I mean, while it's not as aesthetically pleasing as the PS3, I certainly think it looks better than the 360.



If /r/games, neogaf, giantbomb, /r/gaming, twitter etc. are any indication:

Yes. There may be other people but you are in a minority.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 22, 2013)

*gets bible*
*gets rosary*




Spoiler



Prepares to exorcise the spirit of *random MS employee* from vickybat's body


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> Am I the only one who _likes_ the Xbox One's design? I mean, while it's not as aesthetically pleasing as the PS3, I certainly think it looks better than the 360.



Count me in. I too like the simplistic design. Atleast it doesn't look like a toy. 


*New EA Sports Titles, Forza V, 15 Exclusives on Xbox One*

I think the kinect centric titles this time will be hardcore, something like mass effect 3 voice controls and even better. Technically, it isn't that much different from ps4.

Guys here keep forgetting that this was a hardware reveal. E3 will totally focus on softwares. Then we can all comment on games.
I'm kind of excited about the new ip's.



> Microsoft made it pretty clear in the first half hour that the announcement was going to be all about the One's other entertainment features. *Anything about gaming would be banished to the company's E3 conference in a few weeks.*


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> Am I the only one who _likes_ the Xbox One's design? I mean, while it's not as aesthetically pleasing as the PS3, I certainly think it looks better than the 360.


Yes you are the only _One_lol
I think the Xbox 360 S's design was the best


----------



## ghouse12311 (May 22, 2013)

i have a question regarding hardware of xbox one...it has the same hardware as the PS4 except for the memory, PS4 has 8GB GDDR5 Unified and xbox one has 8GB DDR3 so my question is will there be any performance difference between 8GB GDDR5 Unified and 8GB DDR3 and also what is unified memory?


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

ghouse12311 said:


> i have a question regarding hardware of xbox one...it has the same hardware as the PS4 except for the memory, PS4 has 8GB GDDR5 Unified and xbox one has 8GB DDR3 so my question is will there be any performance difference between 8GB GDDR5 Unified and 8GB DDR3 and also what is unified memory?



Unified memory is a feature of a heterogeneous architecture where different processing cores exist inside a die. Broadly,it can be said that a chip incorporating vector processors and scalar units ( conventional cpu cores) act as a heterogeneous chip. Here cpu and gpu form the same and they have a unified or common pool of memory to access.

So both cpu and gpu can fetch data with a simple interrupt control, directly from one memory pool. It saves a lot of latency issues involved in redundant memory read and write back operations in multiple memory pools. 

Xbox one has the slower memory type than ps4's GDDR5, but it has a small trick up its sleeve. Xbox One features a high speed cache block called ES-RAM which acts as a bridge between the main memory pool and execution resources. When data is fetched, it passes through ES-RAM which has a much higher bandwidth than DDR3. So the overall bandwidth is again increased.

Though its not as efficient and fast enough as GDDR5, it still gets the job done by a great degree.

* Everything We Know About The Xbox One*

* Peter Molyneux: Microsoft "won" this console generation, is no longer competing with Sony and Nintendo
Former MS exec and Lionhead boss names Apple, Google and Samsung as rivals*

*Shuhei Yoshida President of Sony's Worldwide Studios Responds to Xbox One Announcement*


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> For the first time in your life, you are actually making _some_*** sense. Congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> [/SIZE]



actually i made sense everytime, you were too stupid to realize it  

can i haz troll plz ?

*cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38055578.jpg

*i.minus.com/ijW9KbFN8WmTW.gif

*i.minus.com/ibcHIyVOGJM8mo.gif


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 22, 2013)

Peasant 1 : PS4 has GDDR5 
Peasant 2 : xbox one has better DDR3 memory
Peasant 1 : GDDR5 is faster
.....
...
.
..
..




Master Race: *chuckles* While you peasants fight in the gladiator pit about Ancient terms like DDR3 and GDDR5
We will usher in a New age of DDR4


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Peasant 1 : PS4 has GDDR5
> Peasant 2 : xbox one has better DDR3 memory
> Peasant 1 : GDDR5 is faster
> .....
> ...



not so fast, ddr4 commercial acceptance is still about 2 years away.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 22, 2013)

Am I the only one who liked the design of the Fat Xbox 360 (Elite model) the best between all Xboxes? The PS3 fat was the best looking console IMHO after the PS2 Fat. The Wii mini also looked good.

@Vickybat: When you reveal the hardware, you should primarily mention how gaming benefits, because this isn't a home entertainment box before it is a gaming console. Mentioning junk like Fifa and CoD with lots and lots of marketing BS is not how you show it's hardware prowess.

And even if you don't focus on gaming, how do you explain the conflicting information between the suits and the other employees? Apart from that, no matter how well you sugarcoat it, DRM-locking is not the way a console should function.

You may not like what I said, but you can't deny it. Like it or not, Microsoft f***ed up this reveal big time.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

oh hello geniuses, it was supposed to be a 'reveal', not necessarily hardware or software. And they failed miserably at that. The 'wait till E3' reason is stupid.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> oh hello* genius*, it was supposed to be a 'reveal', not necessarily hardware or software. And they failed miserably at that. The 'wait till E3' reason is stupid.



Fixed that for you 

Only Vickybat is claiming otherwise.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

Yeah, sorry 
But we should honestly stop trolling microsoft. After all, its some *'rocket science level stuff'*.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> oh hello geniuses, it was supposed to be a 'reveal', not necessarily hardware or software. And they failed miserably at that. The 'wait till E3' reason is stupid.



who are you pointing to? everyone agrees the reveal was a reee-veal 



cyborg47 said:


> Yeah, sorry
> But we should honestly stop trolling microsoft. After all, its some *'rocket science level stuff'*.



maybe he was referring to it as rocket science because its cloud powered?


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

'The wait till E3' apologists fail to realize that the reveal sets the tone for the console. When they reveal it they need to concentrate on what its primary functions are.

Eg: iPhone: A web browser phone + iPod (even though I dislike apple, I must admit that they hit reveals on the head)
PS4, Wii U:  A gaming system
ARM Cortex: Compute power at low price and power consumption etc.

OTOH Xbox One:

DVR, TV and to some extent Kinect box?


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

in the mean time..


*i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7486101760/h0EE49C0F/


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

* Xbox One Reveal Conference Review*

Yeah people seem to be whining about games and we'll come to know about that precisely after 3 weeks or so, before passing a verdict.

Considering the advent of ipads and ultra smartphones, it was necessary to take the console approach in a different direction, not neglecting the gaming aspect of course. 
The design of the console and the controller itself is great. I mean there was nothing wrong with the 360 controller ( it was better than DS3), and they've done the right thing, improvising on the existing design.

The more emphasis on living room is what making hardcore gamers lose temper, but i don't see a problem with this approach. They are not necessarily following the original wii's plans.
I mean apart from the added ( excellent) gesture controls and living room features, this will still have all the hardcore titles. Atleast all major multiplats will definitely show up on the xbox one, and exclusives are already promised. 

I kind of liked their approach. Under the hood, its still an x86 based console and will have all the benefits the PS4 has from a pure development standpoint.
I don't think its gonna falter in this department. E3 is going to be a 2 hour conference both for sony and microsoft. Games will take the center stage there.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 22, 2013)

some links to follow..

*twitter.com/collarduty

*www.facebook.com/pages/Xbox-One-Memes/538649222866802



vickybat said:


> * Xbox One Reveal Conference Review*
> 
> Yeah people seem to be whining about games and we'll come to know about that precisely after 3 weeks or so, before passing a verdict.
> 
> ...



People are only making fun of this reveal. There are going to be hardcore(hopefully) titles, and I'm sure everybody will be happy about it


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

EA is developing Wii U games, has bigger plans for PS4 and Xbox One, CFO says | Polygon

Well, that was quick 



So much snaking and dodging. Can't say I expected any better.


----------



## darkv0id (May 22, 2013)

dead5 said:


> EA is developing Wii U games, has bigger plans for PS4 and Xbox One, CFO says | Polygon
> 
> Well, that was quick



Hehe, EA can't even make up it's own mind. This has been a weird day, so many claims and counter-claims.

In other news, EA is set to piss off more of their PC fans (the few that remain, anyway)

PC version of Fifa 14 won’t be using EA’s new Ignite engine


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

I think that Microsoft may be trying "the flood of carefully worded, apparently conflicting information".

Eg. "You don't need to pay to install used games" claims person one
"You need to pay to play used games" says person two. 

When read some time apart you end up conflating them while they don't actually contradict each other. 

If they wanted to clear the confusion they would have openly said "We won't block used games and you don't have to pay for them again" or something to that effect.


On the Wii U there were no EA games in development a week ago. Now they _are_ developing them right after the Xbox One was announced. Strange. Innit?


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 22, 2013)

darkv0id said:


> *PC version of Fifa 14 won’t be using EA’s new Ignite engine*



Yup,The Ignite Engine can only work on a  console which is based on "Rocket-Science level stuff"   

I hope PC game drought does not come......


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Yup,The Ignite Engine can only work on a  console which is based on "Rocket-Science level stuff"
> 
> I hope PC game drought does not come......



Paradox Interactive will save us all . 

OT: I don't get the "Rocket-Science level stuff" reference.

?Xbox One???????????????????? - ????.com

Confirmed for Japan. 

Why do they even try?



> "It seems like the day has come for me to leave the Xbox. It's total nonsense that there is no backwards compatibility. Ah, but if The Idolmaster 3 comes out, I guess I'll have to buy it..."
> 
> "Television. The NFL. These things seem the biggest, but in Japan, they're totally irrelevant. For Japan, it's totally over. It's at the point where it doesn't matter if this doesn't sell in Japan."
> 
> ...



Do they really care about expats so much?

Here's What People in Japan Think of Xbox One


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

*Xbox One Already Up for Pre-order in the UK*

*Xbox One Reveal Reactions... WTF?*

*Microsoft Unveils Xbox One: The One and Only Machine One Needs in the Living Room.*




> Phil Harrison has clarified to Eurogamer the used/loaned game setup Xbox One will use.* Since game installs to the HDD are mandatory, your game install is tied to your Xbox. Whoever uses it can play the game. If you take the game to a friend's house, you must be signed into your own account to play the game. No more loaning a friend a game unless you plan on letting them sign into your account (possibly ruining your stats in your favorite online game). If your friend wants to play it using their own profile, they have to pay for the game. *Used game sales details were said to be announced at a later time.



This really sucks a lot. The game is actually tied to a live account which is unique to a user. Even if a user bricks his/her console, a new console can still play the games if logged in through the old account. So its an online check and not a hardware checking protocol.


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 22, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Oh my god. This conference is hilarious. Why would I want a Xbox One when I already have a 360? Seriously, who thought of that name.
> 
> My takeaway is: Kinect, Kinect, Kinect, Skype, ESPN, DVR, Kinect, FIFA, Buzzwords, NHL, COD, Kinect.
> 
> ...



EA backstabbing Nintendo  .... The way nintendo is going it is doing the job well for itself... Have you heard that nintendo is claiming all youtube videos related to Nintendo games as it own property and diverting the money to their pockets..
Recently many youtube channels have lost money due to it...
They are even targeting ardent nintendo fans and nintendo promotion channels... and you are trying to depict them as the good underdog when they are acting so greedy (like Sony in the PS2 and PS3 era)


----------



## thetechfreak (May 22, 2013)

Some one rename the thread.

Xbox One came, it saw and seeing the reaction of people its safe to say it couldn't conquer. The new gen consoles are here.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

thetechfreak said:


> Some one rename the thread.
> 
> Xbox One came, it saw and seeing the reaction of people its safe to say* it couldn't conquer*. The new gen consoles are here.



Well its way too early to pass a comment on that aspect mate. It was just a physical reveal. Expect games and much more at E3.

Yeah someone should change the xbox 720 to xbox one.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> EA backstabbing Nintendo  .... The way nintendo is going it is doing the job well for itself... Have you heard that nintendo is claiming all youtube videos related to Nintendo games as it own property and diverting the money to their pockets..
> Recently many youtube channels have lost money due to it...
> They are even targeting ardent nintendo fans and nintendo promotion channels... and you are trying to depict them as the good underdog when they are acting so greedy (like Sony in the PS2 and PS3 era)



This forum seems to have no shortage of geniuses to beef up my ignore list with. 

I'm pretty sure saying that you have an unprecedented partnership, that the console is amazing, that it has your full support etc. one day and then simply giving half assed late ports and calling it the end of the deal, saying that the console is crap the next day, it wont be getting any games from you etc. counts as backstabbing. 

They are blocking yt videos of their games to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt. Whatever they may earn from this will be negligible for them. They are blocking people only if they are trying to monetize their intellectual property without their consent. What they are doing is bs but it is not unique to them. A lot of Japanese companies like SEGA and Square Enix do the same due to a lack of understanding of the western Internet culture. The difference is that they are only targeting monetized videos right now rather than all of them. If you are doing non commercial work the contentid system should stay away from your videos.

Saying that they are doing this to grub money takes another level of geniusosity that I cannot comprehend.

Where did I depict them as the underdog?

Xbox 360

 Lets see if Kinect 2.0 is any better.

Microsoft talks Xbox One naming, privacy and more (Q&A) | Microsoft - CNET News

Microsoft sure loves dodging questions and beating around the bush.


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 22, 2013)

dead5 said:


> I'm pretty sure saying that you have an unprecedented partnership, that the console is amazing, that it has your full support etc. one day and then simply giving half assed late ports and calling it the end of the deal, saying that the console is crap the next day, it wont be getting any games from you etc. counts as backstabbing.
> 
> They are blocking yt videos of their games to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt. Whatever they may earn from this will be negligible for them. They are blocking people only if they are trying to monetize their intellectual property without their consent. What they are doing is bs but it is not unique to them. A lot of Japanese companies like SEGA and Square Enix do the same due to a lack of understanding of the western Internet culture. The difference is that they are only targeting monetized videos right now rather than all of them. If you are doing non commercial work the contentid system should stay away from your videos.
> 
> ...



Dont blindly babble without getting your faacts right. EA never said there wont be any games they said there wont be games based on Frostbite 3 engine due to the technical difficulties.. there are other engines they use... The thing about frostbite still stands..

You are so blind to everything Nintendo does that you can accept their flaws.... you say its to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt.. but why not just flag the videos or block the content like sega.. why are they still keeping the so called low quality videos in youtube.. if not to rake the money from the views...
If the company feels that the videos are such low quality to hurt their image why keep them up and running?! 
I agree I am not as smart as you .. so can you explain why they are trying to make fools of people who have been and are supporting them from a long time and forcing them to close their channels?
I would love to see how you respond when Nintendo block your stuff related their product even when you are supporting them....
BTW Sega blocked the videos related to Shining force (and shining force only.. as they were developing a new shining force game), it didnt divert the money to their account.... And it has apologized since for the actions and has unblocked many of them....
I dont hate nintendo,  but the fevour with which you rave about them seems childish like a 14 year old.... When you like a thing you should help in making it better and not keep covering its flaws; eventually people will stop valuing your veiws and the product you are supporting....and finally they will ignore them even theres something good in it...


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> Dont blindly babble without getting your faacts right. EA never said there wont be any games they said there wont be games based on Frostbite 3 engine due to the technical difficulties.. there are other engines they use... The thing about frostbite still stands..
> 
> You are so blind to everything Nintendo does that you can accept their flaws.... you say its to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt.. but why not just flag the videos or block the content like sega.. why are they still keeping the so called low quality videos in youtube.. if not to rake the money from the views...
> If the company feels that the videos are such low quality to hurt their image why keep them up and running?!
> ...



+1, totally agree with you, but tbh arguing with such people is just a waste of time. So lets not make this into a why nintendo sucks debate and lets try to stick to the topic



dead5 said:


> This forum seems to have no shortage of geniuses to beef up my ignore list with.
> 
> I'm pretty sure saying that you have an unprecedented partnership, that the console is amazing, that it has your full support etc. one day and then simply giving half assed late ports and calling it the end of the deal, saying that the console is crap the next day, it wont be getting any games from you etc. counts as backstabbing.
> 
> ...



lets stay on topic, we all know how big a nintendo fan you are  but there is no need to belittle others. Maybe you should start with adding yourself to your ignore list . People who are running independent channels are not working / own companies with a 10BN $ net worth.. so id just start there. And if you add up all the videos, even nickels and pennies earned from them must amount in millions for nintendo, else it will cost them more manpower to block such content. 

Nintendo is taking dues which do not belong to them, i think that much is pretty clear. What you comprehend is another matter.


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

^^ Exactly.  No need to argue with people like that. His own signature speaks for himself.

Now get ready for an in-depth analysis by anandtech.


*The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4*

The casing is full aluminium and is sturdy according to anandtech. The design is honestly spot on to what microsoft has been targeting all along.
It will just fit beautifully alongside a large screen display.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Exactly.  No need to argue with people like that. His own signature speaks for himself.
> 
> Now get ready for an in-depth analysis by anandtech.
> 
> ...



there is a 30% performance gap, and with the hypervisor and the gesture heavy ui xbot one is running, i dont think that you will get more than 30fps on 1080p... it just cant keep up with the ps4. 

on the other hand the cooling solution seems pretty solid, so temps should be stable and thermal and power brick should be quite cool. The ps4 on the other hand with the 5.5ghz(equivalent) ram will be running quite hot, and i expect the power brick to be larger. Lets see the cooling solution sony has gone with.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> Dont blindly babble without getting your faacts right. EA never said there wont be any games they said there wont be games based on Frostbite 3 engine due to the technical difficulties.. there are other engines they use... The thing about frostbite still stands..
> 
> You are so blind to everything Nintendo does that you can accept their flaws.... you say its to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt.. but why not just flag the videos or block the content like sega.. why are they still keeping the so called low quality videos in youtube.. if not to rake the money from the views...
> If the company feels that the videos are such low quality to hurt their image why keep them up and running?!
> ...



You are the one who needs to get his facts straight.

*kotaku.com/ea-has-no-games-in-development-for-nintendos-wii-u-50758899



> "We have no games in development for the Wii U currently," company spokesperson Jeff Brown told Kotaku yesterday.



EA claimed that they were unable to get frostbite 2 to run properly so they decided not to pursue frostbite 3. Unless DICE is absolutely horrible at code optimization the claims are absolute horse [redacted]


If you actually read my post you would realize that I consider Nintendo's yt actions BS. 

I just pointed out why nintendo claimed thay did it. I don't know their reasoning behind it.

It was all implied from their official response.



> As part of our on-going push to ensure Nintendo content is shared across social media channels in an appropriate and safe way, we became a YouTube partner and as such in February 2013 we registered our copyright content in the YouTube database. For most fan videos this will not result in any changes, however, for those videos featuring Nintendo-owned content, such as images or audio of a certain length, adverts will now appear at the beginning, next to or at the end of the clips. We continually want our fans to enjoy sharing Nintendo content on YouTube, and that is why, unlike other entertainment companies, we have chosen not to block people using our intellectual property.



Nintendo Flexing Copyright Clout on YouTube Let's Play Channels - gamefront.com | gamefront.com

The last sentence should make it clear enough that they are fundamentally misunderstanding the culture.

Considering my stuff on YouTube is all non commercial Nintendo will not block them if they keep true to their statement.

They are diverting the funds instead of taking down the videos because they believe that fans should still be allowed to share content.

Frankly, I do discuss Nintendo and point out their flaws when on topic. I don't bring up facts irrelevant to the discussion like accounts tied to a console & region lock where they aren't relevant.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 22, 2013)

dead5 said:


> You are the one who needs to get his facts straight.
> 
> *kotaku.com/ea-has-no-games-in-development-for-nintendos-wii-u-50758899
> 
> ...



not replying. Keeping this clean. Anyone who wishes to reply, please take this to the offtopic thread.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 22, 2013)

Finally! The peasants shall taste the scourge known as  DRM!


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

Xbox One won't allow indies to self-publish g - Video Game News, Videos and File Downloads for PC and Console Games at Shacknews.com

CVG Blog: Opinion: Only games can save Xbox One - ComputerAndVideoGames.com

Microsoft and Sony Diverge on Gaming ‘Cloud’ - Digits - WSJ



> “If you’re backwards compatible, you’re really backwards,” he said.




After an awful start, Xbox One must redeem itself at E3 | GamesIndustry International

The PA Report - The Kinect is mandatory, and can’t be turned off: Welcome your new motion sensing, Xbox One overlord

Is Microsoft Using XBox and Kinect To Spy On You? » BiG DaH's Kage



> “You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so.  You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others, and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions may be broadcast to others.  Some games may utilize game managers and hosts.  Game managers and hosts are not authorized Microsoft spokespersons, and their views do not necessarily reflect those of Microsoft.  We do not routinely monitor your use of the communication features of the Service.  However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your communications and may disclose information about you as set forth in this Section 9.”


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> not replying. Keeping this clean. Anyone who wishes to reply, please take this to the offtopic thread.



Just report the post mate.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

> Dan Adelman ‏@Dan_Adelman
> 
> One might think I'd be glad Xbox won't allow indies to self-publish. It's actually a big negative, as indies need more exposure. #growthepie



*twitter.com/Dan_Adelman/status/337238668924317696


----------



## vickybat (May 22, 2013)

* Analysis: Xbox One versus PlayStation 4*

A fairly simple and well written article.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 22, 2013)

*i.imgur.com/Vz02Ghu.png


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> * Xbox One Reveal Conference Review*
> 
> Yeah people seem to be whining about games and we'll come to know about that precisely after 3 weeks or so, before passing a verdict.
> 
> ...



1. But they did neglect gaming. From this reveal it is not clear whether the new Xbox is a media entertainment device or a gaming console.
2. Fact: I had hand pain for a week after a light 3-hour session on the 360 controller at a friends place. The DS3 gave me no trouble whatsoever. So much for the 360 controller being better...
3. Gesture controls are not revolutionary, and I don't want to look like a living-room loony. Kinect is designed to spy on you. No way does that get my money.
4. Given the fact that certain GPU units are reserved for computation on the Xbox while the PS4 (apparently) has a fully flexible heterogenous pipeline, I think the Xbox will be a little more troublesome to code for than the PS4.


cyborg47 said:


> People are only making fun of this reveal. There are going to be hardcore(hopefully) titles, and I'm sure everybody will be happy about it


Exactly.


dead5 said:


> EA is developing Wii U games, has bigger plans for PS4 and Xbox One, CFO says | Polygon
> 
> Well, that was quick
> 
> ...


I got pissed off after 5 minutes and gave up watching the rest.


darkv0id said:


> Hehe, EA can't even make up it's own mind. This has been a weird day, so many claims and counter-claims.
> 
> In other news, EA is set to piss off more of their PC fans (the few that remain, anyway)
> 
> PC version of Fifa 14 won’t be using EA’s new Ignite engine


I think EA has lost the plot of survival completely.


dead5 said:


> I think that Microsoft may be trying "the flood of carefully worded, apparently conflicting information".
> 
> Eg. "You don't need to pay to install used games" claims person one
> "You need to pay to play used games" says person two.
> ...


Agreed.


CommanderShawnzer said:


> Yup,The Ignite Engine can only work on a  console which is based on "Rocket-Science level stuff"
> 
> I hope PC game drought does not come......


Oh how I love the smell of sarcasm before a good night's sleep!


vickybat said:


> *Xbox One Already Up for Pre-order in the UK*
> 
> *Xbox One Reveal Reactions... WTF?*
> 
> ...


Not sure if you're trying to defend the DRM after saying it sucks. Could you please clarify?



vickybat said:


> Well its way too early to pass a comment on that aspect mate. It was just a physical reveal. Expect games and much more at E3.
> 
> Yeah someone should change the xbox 720 to xbox one.


This was nothing more than a feature reveal. A physical reveal gives some technical details of the innards with a bit more depth.


dead5 said:


> This forum seems to have no shortage of geniuses to beef up my ignore list with.
> 
> I'm pretty sure saying that you have an unprecedented partnership, that the console is amazing, that it has your full support etc. one day and then simply giving half assed late ports and calling it the end of the deal, saying that the console is crap the next day, it wont be getting any games from you etc. counts as backstabbing.
> 
> ...


No need to be so abrasive, although I agree wholeheartedly. What should be taken away from here is that many Japanese Cos fail to understand western internet culture- they're not doing it for nickels and dimes. Japanese culture takes a dim view of a grub-money attitude in case you didn't know. Honour before wealth.


Bhargav Simha said:


> Dont blindly babble without getting your faacts right. EA never said there wont be any games they said there wont be games based on Frostbite 3 engine due to the technical difficulties.. there are other engines they use... The thing about frostbite still stands..
> 
> You are so blind to everything Nintendo does that you can accept their flaws.... you say its to make sure that their brand image , games marketing etc. is not hurt.. but why not just flag the videos or block the content like sega.. why are they still keeping the so called low quality videos in youtube.. if not to rake the money from the views...
> If the company feels that the videos are such low quality to hurt their image why keep them up and running?!
> ...


Just because he was rude doesn't mean you also have to be rude. Nintendo does not want people to make money out of their channels if they're discussing nintendo's assets. Like he mentioned before, it wasn't for grub money, but because they don't understand how the western internet culture has shaped itself.


vickybat said:


> ^^ Exactly.  *No need to argue with people like that. His own signature speaks for himself.*
> 
> Now get ready for an in-depth analysis by anandtech.
> 
> ...


I hope you realize that his signature also speaks for many of your previous posts. I don't think the new box will fit with a large screen display at all. I have a 55" TV (which, by all means is large) waiting to be installed at home, and the Xbox just looks like it will mar the appearance.



NoasArcAngel said:


> there is a 30% performance gap, and with the hypervisor and the gesture heavy ui xbot one is running, i dont think that you will get more than 30fps on 1080p... it just cant keep up with the ps4.
> 
> on the other hand the cooling solution seems pretty solid, so temps should be stable and thermal and power brick should be quite cool. The ps4 on the other hand with the 5.5ghz(equivalent) ram will be running quite hot, and i expect the power brick to be larger. Lets see the cooling solution sony has gone with.


Agreed, the Xbox is not good enough. But the OpenGL derivative vs Direct3D contest should be interesting. I'm not sure how being GDDR5 RAM necessarily makes it hotter than DDR3. Last I remember, the bulk of the heat in a video card was due to the GPU. Also, heat will be dependent on the manufacturing process of either type of RAM, not it's type. Obviously Sony would not sell a console with overclocked memory  (that would be interesting, though). E3 will be ample opportunity for Sony to show how much ingenuity (or lack of it) it put in the PS4. The design, I'm hoping will be way better than the Xbox, which just looks like an AV receiver with built in CD player from the 90's housed in an Aluminium chassis.



NoasArcAngel said:


> not replying. Keeping this clean. Anyone who wishes to reply, please take this to the offtopic thread.


Agreed, any further commentary should go off-topic.


dead5 said:


> Xbox One won't allow indies to self-publish g - Video Game News, Videos and File Downloads for PC and Console Games at Shacknews.com
> 
> CVG Blog: Opinion: Only games can save Xbox One - ComputerAndVideoGames.com
> 
> ...



I'm hoping the Xbox fails. I don't want my video game console (or in this case, _media entertainment device_) to spy on me. That, apart from the DRM, lack of Indie support and the continuous vague responses by Microsoft is totally pissing me off. And it looks like this thread's posters are unanimous except for one dissenting voice, who I'm hoping will realize that he's mistaken.



> Just report the post mate.



And get a valid, on-topic response deleted? Looks like I forget who I'm responding to (oh yeah, the quote doesn't mention his name, whoever he is).


----------



## RCuber (May 23, 2013)

there is a simple way to go across the DRM of Xbox One. Your friend can't play with your disk you ask? just give him your account details and he can play.


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

* Kinect for Xbox One Also Coming to PC*

This is real good news. PC gamers can rejoice now.


----------



## Thunder (May 23, 2013)

How is Kinect good for PC?  No one would like to sit infront of their screen and wave their arms like a turtle.


----------



## RCuber (May 23, 2013)

^^ Kinect for PC means loads of development opportunities. its not necessary that it has to be used only for games.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Agreed, the Xbox is not good enough. But the OpenGL derivative vs Direct3D contest should be interesting. I'm not sure how being GDDR5 RAM necessarily makes it hotter than DDR3. Last I remember, the bulk of the heat in a video card was due to the GPU. Also, heat will be dependent on the manufacturing process of either type of RAM, not it's type. Obviously Sony would not sell a console with overclocked memory  (that would be interesting, though). E3 will be ample opportunity for Sony to show how much ingenuity (or lack of it) it put in the PS4. The design, I'm hoping will be way better than the Xbox, which just looks like an AV receiver with built in CD player from the 90's housed in an Aluminium chassis.



Actually, heat will be dependent on the ram type only. because of the ps4 approach of SoC the ram sticks and the apu will be soldered on the board directly. The processor of the apu is the jaguar which is an 8 core  SoC having increased performance over bobcat cpu, overclocked to 1.6GHz and the Gpu is a custom radeon solution. Sony will be using 512mb x 16 ram chips for 8GB GDDR5 ( most probably be ~75nm so its pretty high compared to the core which will be 28 or 40 nm). Since these ram chips will be running at a pretty high clock speed of equivalent of 5.5Ghz, these will be heating up the most. 

If you have noticed, the gddr5 ram in the ps4 will be equivalent to a high end gpu like a 7970, and in those cards the heatsink covers all of the gpu board specially the ram. If the ram isnt cooled properly, its the ram which will get burnt and not the core of the gpu.

mean while, kaz hira is growing 1 extra finger and yet reducing 2 fingers  

*global3.memecdn.com/kaz-hirai-ceo-of-sony_o_875343.jpg

they screwed up the xbox one reveal because this must have been giving them nightmares. 

*img.gawkerassets.com/img/18fb91q8paf30gif/k-bigpic.gif

can i haz memes please ?


*s1.postimg.org/nrht124rz/Godamnit_Xbox_Someone_had_to_start_the_!!stor.jpg

*i.imgur.com/ypnhNx9.jpg

*abload.de/img/ownedtgkoj.gif

Peter parker : getting the xbox one 

*stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/2332127/j-jonah-jameson-laughing-o.gif


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

Unlike PlayStation 4, prospects for indie games on Xbox One are murky | The Verge

Xbox One Raises the Burden of Privacy Safeguards: 5 Questions for Microsoft | TIME.com


Game Developers React to Microsoft's Xbox One Reveal : G For Geek : Gamenguide

*i.imgur.com/6Xi0c69l.png


Live TV on the Xbox One: Microsoft learns nothing from Google TV's mistakes | The Verge

The Escapist : Video Galleries : Jimquisition : Xbox One out of Ten



			
				Tim Schafer said:
			
		

> “@Polygon: Indie developers cannot self-publish on Xbox One *sbn.to/YZERGv ” Booo! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! BoooOOOoooOooooo! Boo!



*twitter.com/TimOfLegend/status/337333503039508480

@people considering the Xbone really advanced: What do you think of this?



*i.minus.com/ijW9KbFN8WmTW.gif



*i.minus.com/imn9HiynQGfSA.gif


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

*Crytek’s Ryse is exclusive To Xbox One*

I think this is reserved for E3 as a live demo. Microsoft sure wasn't bluffing about those 15 exclusives. This is surely one of them and it looks pretty classy to me.
Cryengine 3 is going to shine in next gen consoles.

*news.cheatcc.com/articles/390952#.UZ3DlrVTB4o


----------



## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *Crytek’s Ryse is exclusive To Xbox One*
> 
> I think this is reserved for E3 as a live demo. Microsoft sure wasn't bluffing about those 15 exclusives. This is surely one of them and it looks pretty classy to me.
> Cryengine 3 s going to shine in next gen consoles.
> ...



Ohhh this game is going to piss off a lot of people, not during the reveal, but after the release


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

*i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/326/127814606985.jpg



vickybat said:


> *Crytek’s Ryse is exclusive To Xbox One*
> 
> I think this is reserved for E3 as a live demo. Microsoft sure wasn't bluffing about those 15 exclusives. This is surely one of them and it looks pretty classy to me.
> Cryengine 3 is going to shine in next gen consoles.
> ...



is it just me ? or the roman numerals are a really stupid idea?


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

Here's a small comparison in a nutshell:

*Full Comparison: PS4 vs Xbox One*

The playstation 4 eye camera seems kind of equally good as kinect. It isn't forced on the user though and is an optional purchase.
The next gen, its going to be an exclusive content battle because most multiplats are going to look similar in either platforms. That's because the lowest denominator is considered to as standard across all platforms. Pc will also get most console only multiplats this time around.



NoasArcAngel said:


> is it just me ? or the roman numerals are a really stupid idea?



Yeah it kinda confused me too at first. 

But the countdown leads to june 10th i.e E3.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> *Crytek’s Ryse is exclusive To Xbox One*
> 
> I think this is reserved for E3 as a live demo. Microsoft sure wasn't bluffing about those 15 exclusives. This is surely one of them and it looks pretty classy to me.
> Cryengine 3 is going to shine in next gen consoles.
> ...



*www.abload.de/img/0426_gjrtd.gif


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

* The ‘Console War’ is so last decade: How everyone wins with Xbox One and PlayStation 4*

Hmmm i wonder why somebody is deliberately left out here! Oh heck who cares anyway . The real next-gen consoles is all that matters.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/consoles/10677d1369296628-next-gen-console-discussion-ps4-n-xbox-onen-wii-u-xb1.jpg


exclusive in game footage from call of duty : ghosts

This is so real ! HOLY ****. THE TEXTURE COUNT IS THROUGH THE ROOF 


*www.gamespot.com/23-5-2013/xbox-one/call-of-duty-ghosts-special-preview/live-in-game-footage.jpeg



Spoiler



*images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/3/4/6/1/7/3/3/call-of-dogs-world-at-war-91911659184.jpeg


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 23, 2013)

Xbox One will still sell like hell in the US of A
In other places? Not so well
In India & Japan? not at all


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Xbox One will still sell like hell in the US of A
> In other places? Not so well
> In India & Japan? not at all



*24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdsw0schpO1rf3j9io1_500.jpg

*memecreator.eu/media/created/xw475i.jpg

taking from the rich and giving to the poor, or the other way around ?


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 23, 2013)

RCuber said:


> there is a simple way to go across the DRM of Xbox One. Your friend can't play with your disk you ask? just give him your account details and he can play.



Yeah but then you wont be able to play other games on you xb   .... I am also not sure if your xbox account will be tied up to your xbox alone, someone please confirm..

I feel the XBOX one is a good entertainment device for the living room like the Wii and will fill in the next gen Family console gap left by Wii... However I feel (and I wish to be proved wrong) it is harmfull for core gaming unlike Wii. 
Wii helped the industry by making gaming a family thing and a hip thing, till then gamers were almost outcasts and gaming was seen as a vice like smoking or drinking. Now when more people are getting into gaming, why does M$ want to get people more interested in TV, when its obviously a competitor.
The XBOX one by making TV more important and interactive may prove harmfull for gaming industry, since the Halo, NHL stuff etc may draw people away from gaming.
The so called voice control and gesture control shenanigans are already being provided by the smart tvs and they are only going to get better, so I dont understand why would anyone want to buy a XBOX one for the feature. Also since PS4 seems to be concentrating on the hardcore games with the tie-ups with AAA and Indie games, why would anyone spend more on xbone when they get better hardware and more and different types of games with a PS4
Instead of blowing stuff on these, if M$ had invested in better casual games...which whole family can play or indie games (as they did for xbox 360) or better hardware... it would have taken the gaming boom to the next level.
However I am glad that Sony, which was  arrogant like hell in the past has come around and taken care of some of the things like Indie  and Hardcore  games etc.
I think XBOX and Wii U will be fighting for the Wii's Family/casual market this time, where as the PS4 will be taking over the market of 360 and ps3.
I wish Nintendo and Xbone wont suffer huge losses, but learn a good lesson (Like sony)... so they can come back strongly next time


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 23, 2013)

Even if *some* people buy this(XBOX One) here,It will be considered stupid coz
1)No support for *Indian Accent*
2)Who the f**k wants to watch NFL and Baseball? .Give me Cricket and Football,McroSh!t.
3)No apps.The poor Indian will have to manage with Youtube,Dailymotion and FB.No Netflix,No HBO Go.Nothing
4)No stuff(movies,music) to Buy/Rent & download.Anyway,who buys stuff in India?
Certainly not "SUE ME I'M A PIRATE  WHAT WILL YOU DO  " type of people,who also happen to be Sony fanboys
5)No Gaems.Who wants to play Call of Doggy:Ghosts? 



So spare yourself all this so-called Next-Gen BS
And buy a forever Next-Gen PC! 
and get a PS4 when God of War 4 releases




I might buy a PS4 in 2 years(hopefully SM will release GoW4 By then)
I just hope they don't make a stupid re-boot called GoW : God of War


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 23, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Even if *some* people buy this(XBOX One) here,It will be considered stupid coz
> 1)No support for *Indian Accent*
> 2)Who the f**k wants to watch NFL and Baseball? .Give me Cricket and Football,McroSh!t.
> 3)No apps.The poor Indian will have to manage with Youtube,Dailymotion and FB.No Netflix,No HBO Go.Nothing
> ...



+1 ...That was smart and precise....


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Even if *some* people buy this(XBOX One) here,It will be considered stupid coz
> 1)No support for *Indian Accent*
> 2)Who the f**k wants to watch NFL and Baseball? .Give me Cricket and Football,McroSh!t.
> 3)No apps.The poor Indian will have to manage with Youtube,Dailymotion and FB.No Netflix,No HBO Go.Nothing
> ...



All of your points hold true in an indian context except the last one. Honestly, it was pretty damn dumb. 

"No games"?? Really!!!!

Btw xbox 360 quite has a nice presence in india. Microsoft ( like sony) has an official presence here.
The DRM stuff could prove to be a turn off here though.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

While we circlejerk about how the Xbone sucks, lets not forget that the PS4 will have an option to let publishers block used games. 



> Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." *When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher.* When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."



Sony&rsquo;s Yoshida: PlayStation 4 won&rsquo;t block used games (Updated) | Ars Technica



CommanderShawnzer said:


> Even if *some* people buy this(XBOX One) here,It will be considered stupid coz
> 1)No support for *Indian Accent*
> 2)Who the f**k wants to watch NFL and Baseball? .Give me Cricket and Football,McroSh!t.
> 3)No apps.The poor Indian will have to manage with Youtube,Dailymotion and FB.No Netflix,No HBO Go.Nothing
> ...



To add to that, many TVs can already do what the Xbone will offer us like apps, gesture recognition and internet browsing, and the number of them is increasing, not decreasing day by day. TVs will be fine without batsuichi but the batsuichi is useless without a TV.



vickybat said:


> * The ‘Console War’ is so last decade: How everyone wins with Xbox One and PlayStation 4*
> 
> Hmmm i wonder why somebody is deliberately left out here! Oh heck who cares anyway . The real next-gen consoles is all that matters.



Well you know, except for mid tier developers like Mistwalker, Ganbarion and arguably Atlus, non indie games that don't sell millions and millions of copies like ZombiU and Platinum Games games, games like Monster Hunter that would cost too much to produce in those consoles, studios that end up making a single commercial miss like Junction Point, Developers at AAA studios that end up underperforming, big budget games that dare to experiment, games that are in the black but not spectacularly so like the Tales series, games in genres that don't have ultra massive appeal like Visual Novels, publishers that end up mismanaging only 2 - 3 titles etc. 

Of course these things won't matter to people who just want an Xbone for Call of Doggy and fortunately there is a real next-gen console that accommodates them. Then again, I keep forgetting with whom I'm trying to reason with.



vickybat said:


> *Crytek’s Ryse is exclusive To Xbox One*
> 
> I think this is reserved for E3 as a live demo. Microsoft sure wasn't bluffing about those 15 exclusives. This is surely one of them and it looks pretty classy to me.
> Cryengine 3 is going to shine in next gen consoles.
> ...



I'm not sure I'd want to play a game made by a developer who said that graphics is 60% of the game. Look at all the "exclusives" we got at the Xbone reveal. I won't be shocked if they end up being simple game modes or DLC, or even timed exclusives of such. They have called timed exclusive DLC for the Xbox 360 "exclusives" so I wouldn't expect any different this time around. 

The last good game Crytek made was when? 2008 I think.


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> Yeah but then you wont be able to play other games on you xb   .... I am also not sure if your xbox account will be tied up to your xbox alone, someone please confirm..
> 
> I feel the XBOX one is a good entertainment device for the living room like the Wii and will fill in the next gen Family console gap left by Wii... However I feel (and I wish to be proved wrong) it is harmfull for core gaming unlike Wii.
> Wii helped the industry by making gaming a family thing and a hip thing, till then gamers were almost outcasts and gaming was seen as a vice like smoking or drinking. Now when more people are getting into gaming, why does M$ want to get people more interested in TV, when its obviously a competitor.
> ...



You are missing the big point here buddy. Just because microsoft focused on the home theater aspects of Xboxone during the reveal, does not mean they are shying away from games.
Don't miss the fact that xboxone still has the same underlying architecture as ps4 and all development strategies hold same as in sony's console.

Its actually foolish to compare wii-u and xbox one. The latter is still the one third party developers will love to develop on, side by side with ps4. Wii-u is not even in this territory.
The xbox one is still HSA and will definitely find plenty of developers. Drawing conclusion like that in just one reveal doesn't prove anything.

Just wait for E3 mate to find out what kind of games are in store. Also read anandtech's article on xbox one's hypervisor. Its really unique with dynamic switching between two OS.
This console definitely has future just like the PS4. Nintendo just doesn't fit in the same boat and i don't know when it will learn its lesson.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Xbox One will still sell like hell in the US of A
> In other places? Not so well
> In India & Japan? not at all



You can add France, Germany and Belgium to the list of places where it won't sell much. Those markets have shifted heavily in favour of handhelds and Microsoft has never been strong there. Right now a "soon to be doomed" company has ~50% of the hardware market share over there and their titles regularly top charts for weeks in a row. France and Germany are also the biggest markets for a certain ultra hardcore Capcom series outside of Japan whose brand is managed by the aforementioned "soon to be doomed" company in Europe and Oceania. The performance of a struggling console over there has been mediocre with titles on that console charting for weeks in a row. Scandinavia is absolute Sony territory with some major incursions made by a (portable) console by a "soon to be doomed" company.



Bhargav Simha said:


> Yeah but then you wont be able to play other games on you xb   .... I am also not sure if your xbox account will be tied up to your xbox alone, someone please confirm..
> 
> I feel the XBOX one is a good entertainment device for the living room like the Wii and will fill in the next gen Family console gap left by Wii... However I feel (and I wish to be proved wrong) it is harmfull for core gaming unlike Wii.
> Wii helped the industry by making gaming a family thing and a hip thing, till then gamers were almost outcasts and gaming was seen as a vice like smoking or drinking. Now when more people are getting into gaming, why does M$ want to get people more interested in TV, when its obviously a competitor.
> ...



I don't think that Nintendo is focusing on casual audiences this time around. They wouldn't have secured partnerships with Platinum, Capcom, Atlus & Namco and gotten exclusives like Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta 2, they wouldn't have given titles like Monolith Soft's X so much attention and treated titles like Smash as one of the major games on the console and developed it with members of the Tekken, Gundam & Tales teams, asked Ubisoft to change "Killer Freaks from Outer Space" to something more hardcore, blocked Harada from making Tekken Tag Tournament easier/casualized in the Wii U port etc. if they were really focused on them.


Frankly, if ZombiU and MH3U do better on your console than Black Ops II you are anything but casual. 

Right now if you read the financial statement, the Wii U is profitable per unit sold but hasn't turned a profit overall because of R&D and unsold units.

*www.ultraimg.com/images/6hT5x.gif


----------



## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

again...american marketing 



> Most of us tuned in to the Xbox One reveal on Tuesday night. Being a live conference, anything can go wrong. So it's almost acceptable that 90% of the voice commands during the Xbox One reveal weren't performed based on what what Yusuf Mehdi was saying. Look at the IGN video below (skip to 1:39:00 or click here) and notice that anytime Yusuf begins talking about an Xbox One voice command, his left hand automatically goes into his pocket, presumably to press a clicker to proceed to a new slide or something similar (unless he's playing one-handed ping-pong if you know what I mean).




source : FYI, The Xbox One Voice Commands Weren't in Real-time


EDIT - Wait for E3 for real commands 
and no wonder how much they're going to fake over there


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> again...american marketing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, the commands were real enough to screw with people watching the stream on their Xboxes


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## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

*oi40.tinypic.com/5mfm1y.jpg


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## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

Quite apt for what the third Xbox appears to be tryting to do:

*i.imgur.com/c9Ups.gif

Anybody have the data on how many set top boxes actually support CEC and the chances that Microsoft will write interfaces for all the different APIs out there and adequately test it and try and eliminate corner cases for all of them?

Also, It would be great if someone explained the logic behind the official name of the Batsuichi. For something that calls itself "One" it seems to need extra components to get all its functionality.

The hardcore gamer is Arnold Schwarzenegger here

*abload.de/img/aaqou82.gif


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## RCuber (May 23, 2013)

lol this is not the pix thread..  

@Mods.. lock this thread till these kids cool down a little.


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## Bhargav Simha (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You are missing the big point here buddy. Just because microsoft focused on the home theater aspects of Xboxone during the reveal, does not mean they are shying away from games.
> Don't miss the fact that xboxone still has the same underlying architecture as ps4 and all development strategies hold same as in sony's console.
> 
> Its actually foolish to compare wii-u and xbox one. The latter is still the one third party developers will love to develop on, side by side with ps4. Wii-u is not even in this territory.
> ...



You got me little wrong here, I never said that Xbox is shying away from games.. I only said PS4 is better VFM since its speculated that it would cost less (especially due to the kinect).....Same architechture and even slighlty since it XBone is said to be using only 5gb for games and has 3 gb reserved for os, where as PS4 is "rumoured" to be utilizing all 8gb that too DDR5. I am not an expert in architecthure, but as a layman I feel more available ram, less cost etc and access to indie games and rumoured free PSN network all make PS4 a better option for hardcore gamers.

Also I would never think of comparing Wii U to Xbox, but since the hardcore will opt for PS4 over xbox.. The only people left is the casual and family games market, which is vital for the Gaming industry to grow too,  in which Wii had ruled the roost with its innovation. Casual market does not mean childrens games only, it has  hardcore games too... so I said both Wii u and Xbox will be competing for the  Family living room...
And yeah I may be wrong... its just a pre launch speculation based on what I have seen.
E3 will be where all doubts will be put to rest... hopefully.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

The future of MLG.

*i.imgur.com/HL8KAjF.png

The Future of MLG : gaming

I don't really mind this feature. 

*gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/16951971b11fe22c4190401a67ac1cfa/tumblr_mn5uvqYiRy1qzaj5to1_400.gif


----------



## Cilus (May 23, 2013)

Theoritically PS4 is actually powerful than XBOX due to the following reason:-

1. Better GPU: 1154 Stream Processors compared to 768 of XBOX
2. GDDR5 Memory: PS4 has a memory bandwidth of 170 GBps whereas XBOX' 2133 MHz DDR3 ram can provide maximum of 68.7 GBps of bandwidth. Although use of 32 MB sRAM chip as cahce might help XBox to gain some more effective bandwidth, it also needs careful programming to make the applications taking advantage of it.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You are missing the big point here buddy. Just because microsoft focused on the home theater aspects of Xboxone during the reveal, does not mean they are shying away from games.
> Don't miss the fact that xboxone still has the same underlying architecture as ps4 and all development strategies hold same as in sony's console.
> 
> Its actually foolish to compare wii-u and xbox one. The latter is still the one third party developers will love to develop on, side by side with ps4. *Wii-u is not even in this territory*.
> ...



Except for Namco, Sega, Warner, 5th Cell, Shin'en Multimedia, Frozenbyte, Ganbarion, Atlus, Ubisoft, Activision, Capcom, Two Tribes, Platinum Games, Mistwalker according to rumors, Wayforward, Disney, Tecmo Koei, Travellers Tales, 505 games, now even EA etc.

*i.imgur.com/5fzO486.jpg


----------



## darkv0id (May 23, 2013)

Microsoft: 'If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards'

I cannot even begin to imagine how much this will offend core gamers. It shows the kind of condescending attitude they have towards their consumers. 

I mean, the Wii U has backwards compatibility- great. The PS4 does not, but they took their time to explain it was because of the vastly different architecture, and went on to say they would at least try backwards compatibility via Gaikai.

Microsoft too could have simply apologized, and explained the hardware differences. Instead they choose to spew out such insulting B$. I'm not buying any of the next gen consoles, but this sort of attitude brings bad reputation to the company.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

The Technology Behind Xbox One | LinkedIn



> Both the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 have adopted electronics and an integrated systems-on-a -chip (soc) architecture that unleashes magnitudes more compute and graphics power than the current generation of consoles. *These architectures are a generation ahead of the highest end PC on the market* and their unique design of the hardware, the underlying operating system and the live service layer create one of the most compelling platforms to reimagine game mechanics.



Dear EA: We already know that you are full of [redacted]. Stop trying to prove it again and again. 



> Our benchmarks on just the video and audio performance are 8-10 times superior to the current gen. The compute capabilities of these platforms and the data transfer speeds we can now bank on, *essentially removes any notion of rationing of systems resources for our game engines*



WOOO! 8GB GDDR5!!! [REDACTED] EFFICIENCY AND OPTIMIZATION.

I wonder where they develop the games if the consoles themselves are a generation ahead. Unless M$ony have created a method that has eliminated the need of workstations/PCs while development I see no way of this being true. 



darkv0id said:


> Microsoft: 'If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards'
> 
> I cannot even begin to imagine how much this will offend core gamers. It shows the kind of condescending attitude they have towards their consumers.
> 
> ...



You're late with that news 

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/consoles/...ion-ps4-n-xbox-onen-wii-u-21.html#post1909405


----------



## darkv0id (May 23, 2013)

^ Hehe, must have missed that. I thought it hadn't been mentioned, I would have expected a bigger $hitstorm.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

*news.xbox.com/~/media/Images/Media...ing/Branding/XboxOneBrandGuidelines052013.pdf

The guidelines for the X Box.  

*i.imgur.com/c2PWtRu.jpg

I wonder who wrote the X's XGuidelines. I wonder of the 385mn prediction for the next gen how many sold will be Ones.

@darkv0id

I'm still miffed that Sony does not support the Dual Shock 3. The Wii & Wii U have optional in game support the Gamecube & Wii controllers(respectively) even though a few features are missing.

*www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/201...sole-generation-can-grow-market-by-30-percent

If most of the major 3rd party games continue to come to the PS360 it will reduce the demand for a new console, not increase.


----------



## Bhargav Simha (May 23, 2013)

Cilus said:


> Theoritically PS4 is actually powerful than XBOX due to the following reason:-
> 
> 1. Better GPU: 1154 Stream Processors compared to 768 of XBOX
> 2. GDDR5 Memory: PS4 has a memory bandwidth of 170 GBps whereas XBOX' 2133 MHz DDR3 ram can provide maximum of 68.7 GBps of bandwidth. Although use of 32 MB sRAM chip as cahce might help XBox to gain some more effective bandwidth, it also needs careful programming to make the applications taking advantage of it.



Thank you for the info...so what do you think the practical implications will be.. considering the resources used by the OS in the xbox one?


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

dead5 said:


> Except for Namco, Sega, Warner, 5th Cell, Shin'en Multimedia, Frozenbyte, Ganbarion, Atlus, Ubisoft, Activision, Capcom, Two Tribes, Platinum Games, Mistwalker according to rumors, Wayforward, Disney, Tecmo Koei, Travellers Tales, 505 games, now even EA etc.



Wow what a long list 

Not gonna talk about most of the unheard developers dishing out  jrpg's for jap kids. The ones worthwhile are namco, capcom, ubisoft, platinum,activision and ofcourse EA.
Ok now where were we...........ah yes..games. You see all those third party devs you talk about are going to support (maybe) this year or until next.

The wii-u titles will be completely different from xbox one or ps4. Reason is simple i.e indifferent development standards. Ubi has watchdogs /assassin's creed for wii-u because it still develops for ps3 and 360 and porting those to wii-u ( even scaled down) is not an issue. That said, the product is going to look nowhere near as good as ps4 and xbone. The AI is going to be reflected in performance too as per reports.

Same rule applies for all. Until crossplatform developments include ps3 and 360, there is a chance wii-u will get those same titles albeit much scaled down from the two next gen consoles.
If the next tekken game excludes ps3 and 360, i don't think it will come to wii- u due to obvious reasons.

Activision is also not going to bring all its games to wii-u. Bungie's destiny is the perfect example. Its also an exception that it exists for ps3 and 360 as well, but wii-u is skipped.
Same will apply for future COD titles and new ip's.

Capcom is same too. Lost planet 3 is skipped. Deep down is another example. Not all major titles will hit wii-u. Only wii-u centric titles will hit. Let wait till E3 to see how many titles capcom
has planned for wii-u? I assume it won't be many.

About platinum, lets wait and watch how long they are going to support wii-u. No revengeance for wii-u. Once they start bagging projects for ps4 and xbone, i wonder if they look back at wii-u.
Just a couple of exclusives and i assume they're done.

And finally EA, again no frostbite 3 or sports titles. I wonder what kind of games they've planned for wii-u. Maybe they use the mobile version of frostbite (frostbiteGo). lol


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 23, 2013)

Another wholesale response 

PLEASE, do bother to read the whole thing this time...



NoasArcAngel said:


> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/attachments/consoles/10677d1369296628-next-gen-console-discussion-ps4-n-xbox-onen-wii-u-xb1.jpg
> 
> 
> exclusive in game footage from call of duty : ghosts
> ...



The link results in an Error 404.



vickybat said:


> * The ‘Console War’ is so last decade: How everyone wins with Xbox One and PlayStation 4*
> 
> Hmmm i wonder why somebody is deliberately left out here! Oh heck who cares anyway . The real next-gen consoles is all that matters.



So hailing a console for doing something "smart" TVs are already doing? And it's impossible to find a large screen TV without the "smart" aspect anyway. Nintendo is a gaming company and that is how they designed the console. Microsoft and to an extent Sony are making boxes that are multimedia devices, not gaming consoles.



NoasArcAngel said:


> Actually, heat will be dependent on the ram type only. because of the ps4 approach of SoC the ram sticks and the apu will be soldered on the board directly. The processor of the apu is the jaguar which is an 8 core  SoC having increased performance over bobcat cpu, overclocked to 1.6GHz and the Gpu is a custom radeon solution. Sony will be using 512mb x 16 ram chips for 8GB GDDR5 ( most probably be ~75nm so its pretty high compared to the core which will be 28 or 40 nm). Since these ram chips will be running at a pretty high clock speed of equivalent of 5.5Ghz, these will be heating up the most.
> 
> If you have noticed, the gddr5 ram in the ps4 will be equivalent to a high end gpu like a 7970, and in those cards the heatsink covers all of the gpu board specially the ram. If the ram isnt cooled properly, its the ram which will get burnt and not the core of the gpu.
> 
> ...



Not sure how you can ascertain that GDDR5 will have a higher manufacturing process. There is no 75nm, even in a half-shrink. 80nm is higher and the next lower option is 55nm.
Die shrink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, Hynix has 40nm GDDR5 memory. Hynix Introduces World's First 40 nm Class 2 Gb GDDR5 DRAM | techPowerUp
If Sony is using Hynix memory, then definitely 40nm to keep everything under control. And if Hynix can do this in 2009, then after ~3-4 years, Samsung should also be able to, since Samsung is as good as Hynix, if not better at making memory. You can assume that worst case scenario, a 55nm node will be used.

While clock speed is directly proportional to temperature increase, that is where binning and QC comes into play. A chip capable of 5.5Ghz will emit the same amount of heat as a chip capable of 5Ghz, because that is where efficiency matters. Why else would a GTX 580 and a GTX 570 use the same cooling solution? If Sony is using 5.5Ghz RAM, then it's nominal clock is 5.5/4=1375Mhz. This speed is actually pretty low. The 5.5Ghz spec is not the operating frequency, it is the effective frequency because the data rate is quadrupled in a GDDR5 system- that is why GDDR3 had nominal clock speed X and effective speed 2X, because the data rate got doubled. 
Also, it is logical that the stock cooling solution for the GPUs cools the entire board, and not just the core. But you will see that many aftermarket solutions or AIB designs either cool the RAM passively (with tiny heatsinks). Whether the RAM is on a stick or on the board itself doesn't matter. If anything, they might just install 6Ghz chips underclocked to reduce the heat compared to a 5.5Ghz rated chip.



Bhargav Simha said:


> Yeah but then you wont be able to play other games on you xb   .... I am also not sure if your xbox account will be tied up to your xbox alone, someone please confirm..
> 
> I feel the XBOX one is a good entertainment device for the living room like the Wii and will fill in the next gen Family console gap left by Wii... However I feel (and I wish to be proved wrong) it is harmfull for core gaming unlike Wii.
> Wii helped the industry by making gaming a family thing and a hip thing, till then gamers were almost outcasts and gaming was seen as a vice like smoking or drinking. Now when more people are getting into gaming, why does M$ want to get people more interested in TV, when its obviously a competitor.
> ...


An Xbox one is not a good living room entertainment device. A MUCH cheaper PS3 does the job just fine. For all you know, even the PS4 might have all the same features the PS3 with a much less draconian DRM system.


CommanderShawnzer said:


> Even if *some* people buy this(XBOX One) here,It will be considered stupid coz
> 1)No support for *Indian Accent*
> 2)Who the f**k wants to watch NFL and Baseball? .Give me Cricket and Football,McroSh!t.
> 3)No apps.The poor Indian will have to manage with Youtube,Dailymotion and FB.No Netflix,No HBO Go.Nothing
> ...





vickybat said:


> All of your points hold true in an indian context except the last one. Honestly, it was pretty damn dumb.
> 
> "No games"?? Really!!!!
> 
> ...


The last point was a joke. Maybe you don't have the time to listen to jokes. And his point is true about Call of Foggy. Call of Foggy isn't a game. It is a half-arsed attempt at making a pathetic excuse for a game to milk $$$$$$ from the american idiot(c).


vickybat said:


> You are missing the big point here buddy. Just because microsoft focused on the home theater aspects of Xboxone during the reveal, does not mean they are shying away from games.
> Don't miss the fact that xboxone still has the same underlying architecture as ps4 and all development strategies hold same as in sony's console.
> 
> Its actually foolish to compare wii-u and xbox one. The latter is still the one third party developers will love to develop on, side by side with ps4. Wii-u is not even in this territory.
> ...



_You_ are missing the point. A reveal sets the tone for a product. Right now, if only people didn't know any better from history, at least 70% of the world would think this is a media device, not a gaming console. For all you know and can't verify (or _can_ you? ), there still might be idiots on the planet who will mistake the device for exactly what it isn't at the core, and people who are n00bs to gaming (aka the majority population) might buy the PS4 or Wii U instead as gifts for their families.
That, and then the draconian DRM, microsoft's refusal to give straight answers and the "confuse and loot" strategy is not the right way to go.
And why are you celebrating a multi-OS configuration that only eats RAM? Why not put all features into a single OS? Is that too hard?



dead5 said:


> You can add France, Germany and Belgium to the list of places where it won't sell much. Those markets have shifted heavily in favour of handhelds and Microsoft has never been strong there. Right now a "soon to be doomed" company has ~50% of the hardware market share over there and their titles regularly top charts for weeks in a row. France and Germany are also the biggest markets for a certain ultra hardcore Capcom series outside of Japan whose brand is managed by the aforementioned "soon to be doomed" company in Europe and Oceania. The performance of a struggling console over there has been mediocre with titles on that console charting for weeks in a row. Scandinavia is absolute Sony territory with some major incursions made by a (portable) console by a "soon to be doomed" company.
> 
> I don't think that Nintendo is focusing on casual audiences this time around. They wouldn't have secured partnerships with Platinum, Capcom, Atlus & Namco and gotten exclusives like Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta 2, they wouldn't have given titles like Monolith Soft's X so much attention and treated titles like Smash as one of the major games on the console and developed it with members of the Tekken, Gundam & Tales teams, asked Ubisoft to change "Killer Freaks from Outer Space" to something more hardcore, blocked Harada from making Tekken Tag Tournament easier/casualized in the Wii U port etc. if they were really focused on them.
> 
> ...


Agreed.


cyborg47 said:


> again...american marketing
> 
> source : FYI, The Xbox One Voice Commands Weren't in Real-time
> 
> ...


This is Microsoft we're dealing with peeps, they want to confuse and loot. They're evil. How many people watching the reveal would actually even _read_ this article. And I doubt microsoft would inform this over Xbox live, or the Live email accounts.


dead5 said:


> Well, the commands were real enough to screw with people watching the stream on their Xboxes


Again, american idiots will remain american idiots.


cyborg47 said:


> *oi40.tinypic.com/5mfm1y.jpg





Bhargav Simha said:


> You got me little wrong here, I never said that Xbox is shying away from games.. I only said PS4 is better VFM since its speculated that it would cost less (especially due to the kinect).....Same architechture and even slighlty since it XBone is said to be using only 5gb for games and has 3 gb reserved for os, where as PS4 is "rumoured" to be utilizing all 8gb that too DDR5. I am not an expert in architecthure, but as a layman I feel more available ram, less cost etc and access to indie games and rumoured free PSN network all make PS4 a better option for hardcore gamers.
> 
> Also I would never think of comparing Wii U to Xbox, but since the hardcore will opt for PS4 over xbox.. The only people left is the casual and family games market, which is vital for the Gaming industry to grow too,  in which Wii had ruled the roost with its innovation. Casual market does not mean childrens games only, it has  hardcore games too... so I said both Wii u and Xbox will be competing for the  Family living room...
> And yeah I may be wrong... its just a pre launch speculation based on what I have seen.
> E3 will be where all doubts will be put to rest... hopefully.


Actually, childish games can be hardcore, not casual ones  Casual ones may or may not be childish.



Cilus said:


> Theoritically PS4 is actually powerful than XBOX due to the following reason:-
> 
> 1. Better GPU: 1154 Stream Processors compared to 768 of XBOX
> 2. GDDR5 Memory: PS4 has a memory bandwidth of 170 GBps whereas XBOX' 2133 MHz DDR3 ram can provide maximum of 68.7 GBps of bandwidth. Although use of 32 MB sRAM chip as cahce might help XBox to gain some more effective bandwidth, it also needs careful programming to make the applications taking advantage of it.


I doubt the developers will bother with the sRAM. They will be too busy optimizing for lower available memory, and they will be in a hot bother coding between the OpenGL derivative (maybe called PS4GL?) and Direct3D to bother with some swap space. Don't forget that most big devs are getting lazier by the day, of not hour.


dead5 said:


> Except for Namco, Sega, Warner, 5th Cell, Shin'en Multimedia, Frozenbyte, Ganbarion, Atlus, Ubisoft, Activision, Capcom, Two Tribes, Platinum Games, Mistwalker according to rumors, Wayforward, Disney, Tecmo Koei, Travellers Tales, 505 games, now even EA etc.
> 
> *i.imgur.com/5fzO486.jpg


This.


darkv0id said:


> Microsoft: 'If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards'
> 
> I cannot even begin to imagine how much this will offend core gamers. It shows the kind of condescending attitude they have towards their consumers.
> 
> ...


Microsoft is now in my negative dirtbag list. Xbox, go to hell.


dead5 said:


> The Technology Behind Xbox One | LinkedIn
> 
> Dear EA: We already know that you are full of [redacted]. Stop trying to prove it again and again.
> 
> ...


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> Thank you for the info...so what do you think the practical implications will be.. considering the resources used by the OS in the xbox one?



Well buddy multiple OS can be used to utilize resources efficiently by sharing. Memory usage will be variable too. A game os will be optimized to make use and communicate with API's better.
The application OS will focus on applications and multitasking. For example, all web service calls like "XMLHttpRequest" to remote servers will be handled by the non gaming os taking the overhead and simplifying the gaming OS to purely focus on API calls and management. They have also designed the hypervisor which helps in switching between the two, just like VM's. Its fully dynamic.

Microsoft will speak more about it soon from a development and end user standpoint soon, maybe post E3.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Another wholesale response
> 
> PLEASE, do bother to read the whole thing this time...
> 
> ...



replies in bold

look at that ram cooler : 

*www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/2143/geforcegtx_titan_card1_550.jpg

*www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/2143/titan-back.jpg

6gb = 12 x 512 mb .



> Samsung Electronics, the world’s largest maker of various dynamic random access memory, said on Thursday that it had started mass production of GDDR5 memory chips using 50 nm process technology. The new fabrication process allows the devices to reach unprecedented clock-speeds and trim power consumption.
> 
> “Our early 2009 introduction of GDDR5 chips will help us to meet the growing demand for higher performance graphics memory in PCs, graphic cards and game consoles. Because GDDR5 is the fastest and highest performing memory in the world, we’re able to improve the gaming experience with it across all platforms,” said Mueez Deen, director of mobile and graphics memory, Samsung Semiconductor.
> 
> ...


 x-bit labs


Organization	64Mx32

samsung K4G20325FD... same ram used in the gtx titan.


----------



## CommanderShawnzer (May 23, 2013)

Are 12 of those 15 Exclusive Xbox One games Kinect shovel ware?


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Are 12 of those 15 Exclusive Xbox One games Kinect shovel ware?



*comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp0017558.jpg


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 23, 2013)

> Wow what a long list
> 
> Not gonna talk about most of the unheard developers dishing out jrpg's for jap kids. The ones worthwhile are namco, capcom, ubisoft, platinum,activision and ofcourse EA.
> Ok now where were we...........ah yes..games. You see all those third party devs you talk about are going to support (maybe) this year or until next.
> ...



So,

1. Frozenbyte (of Trine series fame),
2. Sega (so many games fame),
3. Warner (of batman and F.E.A.R. fame),
4. Atlus (of so many games like Megami Tensei metafranchise, Guilty Gear series fame),
5. Platinum (of Metal gear rising fame),
6. Disney (of Two Hearts and countless movie adaptations fame),
7. Traveller's Tales (of LEGO fame),
8. Tecmo Koei (of Dead or Alive, Ninja Gaiden fame),
9. Two Tribes (of Toki Tori fame)
10. 5th Cell (of Scribblenauts fame)
11. Wayforward (of Silent Hill on PS Vita fame)
12. 505 Games (of ARMA fame)
13. Ganbarion (of Pandora's Tower fame)
14. Mistwalker (of The Last Story fame)

don't matter?   
Have you been living under a rock? 

Also,  at your "RPGs for japanese kids" comment. It really goes to show how ignorant you are about the video games industry. All these devs had to localize their Japanese games to western languages because of western DEMAND. Pandora's Tower and The Last Story almost didn't make it to the west. Nintendo _succumbed_ to the pressure of DEMAND and these games got a western release. BTW Atlus's core is not just RPG, but arcade fighting games too 

Platinum is making Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 as a Wii U exclusive, and that is a significant development. Bayonetta is now a Nintendo IP so I guess that makes it a childish game 

5 year olds spilling enemy blood and guts w00t w00t 



> Well buddy multiple OS can be used to utilize resources efficiently by sharing. Memory usage will be variable too. A game os will be optimized to make use and communicate with API's better.
> The application OS will focus on applications and multitasking. For example, all web service calls like "XMLHttpRequest" to remote servers will be handled by the non gaming os taking the overhead and simplifying the gaming OS to purely focus on API calls and management. They have also designed the hypervisor which helps in switching between the two, just like VM's. Its fully dynamic.
> 
> Microsoft will speak more about it soon from a development and end user standpoint soon, maybe post E3.



But it doesn't explain how a _single_ OS couldn't do any or all of that better. And it leeches 3GB of RAM. This time devs will complain about the XscamBox over the PS4.



NoasArcAngel said:


> replies in bold
> 
> look at that ram cooler :
> 
> ...



It wont be 512 Mega*bit* \. it will be 512 Mega*byte*. The article I linked to mentions 2 Giga*bit*, which is 256 Mega*byte.* 

If the PS4 was using *8Gb* of RAM then the Xbox One would have already won this war, because 8Gb= 1GB.

G*b*= giga*bit*. GB= gigabyte. _Gi_B=_ Gibi_byte.

About those coolers, did you read that I wrote AFTERMARKET and AIB solutions for those GPUs? Or did you just choose to ignore them? Since when did the Titan's heatsink become either of those two? 

I admit I was mistaken about 75nm memory. But I need to see conclusive evidence that the *PS4* is using that memory.If the RAM mentioned in the IEEE article is the one the Titan uses, then it uses *256MB* modules, so this very same RAM from that article is not present on the PS4. BUT, the article is not free so I have no way of verifying it.

A link to your Xbit article too please. You don't quote that much without a link.


----------



## NoasArcAngel (May 23, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> It wont be 512 Mega*bit* \. it will be 512 Mega*byte*. The article I linked to mentions 2 Giga*bit*, which is 256 Mega*byte.*
> 
> If the PS4 was using *8Gb* of RAM then the Xbox One would have already won this war, because 8Gb= 1GB.
> 
> ...



since both the "*m*" and "*b*" are small therefore i am referring to megabyte. the gigabit and byte was my fault, but nonetheless 

move ur lazy arse and use google once in a while dude 

*www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20090212111407_Samsung_Begins_to_Produce_7GHz_GDDR5_Memory.html

proof : 16 chips of 512mb :
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5#cite_note-7

let the ps4 reveal come and then see for yourself. maybe not 75nm it could be 50nm too (thats why i originally said most probably), but the price for 75nm will be cheaper. 

i am not talking about aftermarket coolers because when temperatures rise its not as simple as cool air input from one point and exit from another.


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Wow what a long list
> 
> Not gonna talk about most of the unheard developers dishing out  jrpg's for jap kids. The ones worthwhile are namco, capcom, ubisoft, platinum,activision and ofcourse EA.
> Ok now where were we...........ah yes..games. You see all those third party devs you talk about are going to support (maybe) this year or until next.
> ...



Moving goalposts very much?

So according to you Hironobu Sakaguchi is an unheard of developer, One Piece doesn't matter, Batman is not important, Ninja Gaiden doesn't matter much, Scribblenauts is not worthwhile, the Lego games don't matter, Trine, Toki Tori, Shantae etc. are irrelevant, The third biggest JRPG franchise(below Dragon Quest whose latest games are Nintendo platform exclusive and the only version of the latest game still being sold is on the Wii U and has a hardware bundle) Megami Tensei and its spinoffs like Shin Megami Tensei and Persona, Etrian Odyssey, Trauma Center don't matter, Kingdom Hearts is irrelevant etc. 



Spoiler







[SARCASM]
Ubi porting PS360 titles explains the existence of ZombiU, exclusive content in Rayman Legends in the Wii U, a free app developed by them for the Wii U, them making the Wii U version of Watch_Dogs independently of the PS360 to take advantage of the gamepad etc.[/SARCASM]

The Tekken 6 physics engine can run on the 3DS and has largely been untouched since Tekken 4, so it is incredibly unlikely that the Tekken 7 engine won't run on the Wii U. If you've played the games there isn't much of an visual upgrade from Tekken 5 to 6. And frankly do you *seriously* think Nintendo would loan one of their most important studios to Namco, let members from the Tekken team develop one of their most important franchises, give rights to develop the arcade versions of another one of their franchises to Namco without any reciprocal support? Namco has said that they will continue to support the PS3 for a long time as their fanbase is there already and have expressed interest developing for the Wii U, Harada has said that he loves the Nintendo fighting fanbase and considers them really hardcore. 

The watch_dogs AI is nothing revolutionary. Such things were done a long time ago due to something known as finite state machines. What we see is a simple implementation of them. The AI of FEAR 2 & Max Payne 3 featured them. AI isn't something you can upscale or downscale like polycount. There won't be any real difference unless they decide to rewrite it completely. And you should know that the good AI problem was solved long ago. Right now the main focus is making fun AI. 


[SARCASM]
I'm pretty sure Capcom won't try and support a platform where its game was smash hit. 
[/SARCASM]

Guess what. PS4 won't be getting MH4G HD ver. while the Wii U will.


[SARCASM]I'm sure that the fact that Lost Planet 3 was too deep in the pipeline to port to the Wii U on time has nothing to do with the fact that the Wii U won't be getting it[/SARCASM]

You may have noticed that the best version of Resident Evil Revelations HD  is on the Wii U. It incorporates all the features of the 3DS version(other than the autostereoscopic 3D), has all the features the PCS360 versions have, uses PC textures and gets more exclusive content. 


You seem to not know the difference between publisher and developer. Kamiya has said that there is no Wii U version of Revengeance because Konami didn't ask them to do it. 

[SARCASM]I'm certain they won't look back and remember the company and console that kept them in employment and ensured that the studio survived and that Hideki Kamiya & Tatsuya Minami are lying that they love the Wii U and have a very close relationship with Nintendo and won't care that their biggest IP was rescued from limbo by Nintendo[/SARCASM]

The president and future of Platinum Games | Polygon
Iwata Asks

But then again, why am I trying to reason with a person who thinks that a tech demo is a game, NSMB is a part of Super Mario, Legend of Zelda and God of War are alike, HSA is nothing but a programming model etc.



Extreme Gamer said:


> So,
> 
> 1. Frozenbyte (of Trine series fame),
> 2. Sega (so many games fame),
> ...



Minor correction: TLS, XC & PT nearly didn't make it to America. NOE had already localized it and was raking in cash hand over fist. But your point still stands.


----------



## Extreme Gamer (May 23, 2013)

NoasArcAngel said:


> since both the "*m*" and "*b*" are small therefore i am referring to megabyte. the gigabit and byte was my fault, but nonetheless
> 
> move ur lazy arse and use google once in a while dude
> 
> ...



Noas, I wasn't contesting the 16x512MB claim. I was pointing at your 2Gb being too dense claim, because Sony is already doing 512MB which is 2x that density (so yes you did mess up). I think you missed the point completely about aftermarket coolers. You said the RAM would burn out. I said, no, even if the reference design uses it, aftermarket folks and AIBs (aka MSI, Asus, gigabyte etc) are releasing their own cooling solutions without any real active cooling for the RAM. So I was basically invalidating your claim.

And you still have not proved that the samsung RAM you mentioned for the titan is referenced in the IEEE article.



dead5 said:


> Moving goalposts very much?
> 
> So according to you Hironobu Sakaguchi is an unheard of developer, One Piece doesn't matter, Batman is not important, Ninja Gaiden doesn't matter much, Scribblenauts is not worthwhile, the Lego games don't matter, Trine, Toki Tori, Shantae etc. are irrelevant, The third biggest JRPG franchise(below Dragon Quest whose latest games are Nintendo platform exclusive and the only version of the latest game still being sold is on the Wii U and has a hardware bundle) Megami Tensei and its spinoffs like Shin Megami Tensei and Persona, Etrian Odyssey, Trauma Center don't matter, Kingdom Hearts is irrelevant etc.
> 
> ...



If Europe is "west" then where did "centre" go? Of all the major gaming regions, Europe (and middle-east asia) sits right at the centre between the east (China, South Korea, Japan) and US/Mexico/Canada in the west.

South Asia is the weird kid sometimes slapped into EMEA and sometimes into Asia-Pacific.

Obviously Europe is west in the traditional sense, but I wouldn't call it the west because then there is no "centre". But that is just my opinion.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

*24.media.tumblr.com/404fbc551f9aafd826d4a15d51353aff/tumblr_mn7qtpqIfw1qmzsn0o1_400.gif


sums up the xbox's entry now


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Noas, I wasn't contesting the 16x512MB claim. I was pointing at your 2Gb being too dense claim, because Sony is already doing 512MB which is 2x that density (so yes you did mess up). I think you missed the point completely about aftermarket coolers. You said the RAM would burn out. I said, no, even if the reference design uses it, aftermarket folks and AIBs (aka MSI, Asus, gigabyte etc) are releasing their own cooling solutions without any real active cooling for the RAM. So I was basically invalidating your claim.
> 
> And you still have not proved that the samsung RAM you mentioned for the titan is referenced in the IEEE article.
> 
> ...



Well, while referring to games(and media in general) "West" includes Europe, Americas and AUNZ, i.e. pretty much everything that can be considered a part of the Occident. This naming convention makes no sense to me either, but it is better to stick to the standard terms while discussing something so as not to cause confusion. It was probably adopted because that is how you localize games. West: European Languages, East: Chinese & Korean and Japanese, Japan: Japanese. Lets not take this off topic by arguing semantics though.


----------



## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

dead5 said:


> The watch_dogs AI is nothing revolutionary. Such things were done a long time ago due to something known as *finite state machines*. What we see is a simple implementation of them. The AI of FEAR 2 & Max Payne 3 featured them. AI isn't something you can upscale or downscale like polycount. There won't be any real difference unless they decide to rewrite it completely. And you should know that the good AI problem was solved long ago. Right now the main focus is making fun AI.
> 
> 
> But then again, why am I trying to reason with a person who thinks that a tech demo is a game, NSMB is a part of Super Mario, Legend of Zelda and God of War are alike, HSA is nothing but a programming model etc.



Ok here we find a guy who's taking about FSM. So you know the use of FSM in AI programming.

Fine with me. Well would you show me how to deduce the following FSM into a regular expression?



Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/ejs2DWD.png




And if possible, also design the FSM of the following regular expression:

r "[a]* | [0-9]+"**

Also show the accepting states.*


----------



## heidi2521 (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Ok here we find a guy who's taking about FSM. So you know the use of FSM in AI programming.
> 
> Fine with me. Well would you show me how to deduce the following FSM into a regular expression?
> 
> ...


*

So when you can't reply, you resort to ad hominem and going off topic. I don't want to turn this thread into a FSM derivation thread. Create a dedicated thread in the off topic section for that. Use this thread for  discussions about next gen consoles. 

On topic:

*twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/337583782666326016




			Hello. We already announced we will have another #NintendoDirectNA at E3, but now we can share the date/time: 6/11 at 7 am PT. #IwataSays
		
Click to expand...



*i.qkme.me/3ujbaa.jpg

News: Microsoft: "we're committed to Japan" with Xbox One - Xbox 360 - The Official Magazine

Lol Yeah. The design just reeks of commitment to Japan.

*fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/166003_10151664870501796_251977729_n.jpg




			Six will rise from the Lost World. Are they friends or foes? Find out on May 29th.
		
Click to expand...

*


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## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

dead5 said:


> So when you can't reply, you resort to ad hominem and going off topic. I don't want to turn this thread into a FSM derivation thread. Create a dedicated thread in the off topic section for that. Use this thread for  discussions about next gen consoles.



Can't reply!!!!!! The only thing you do in this thread is blabber. Not only here but also in other threads, most notably programming threads.
This wasn't any ad hominem mate!  You are going too far all the time and tend to leave your own comfort zone. You drag yourself into pits, you can't climb out.

*You always try to look deep into the abyss with me. But when it looks back at us, you are the one who blinks!!!!.*


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## Extreme Gamer (May 23, 2013)

@vickybat: A historian knows that the battle of stalingrad took place in world war 2. Does that mean he necessarily knows how to use an MP40 submachinegun?
By your logic you should be able to write programs for the analytical engine of charles babbage.
So it is not only off topic, but it is also criminal on your part to deviate from the topic at hand like this. Instead of doing this, respond appropriately.


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## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

Extreme Gamer said:


> @vickybat: A historian knows that the battle of stalingrad took place in world war 2. Does that mean he necessarily knows how to use an MP40 submachinegun?
> By your logic you should be able to write programs for the analytical engine of charles babbage.
> So it is not only off topic, but it is also criminal on your part to deviate from the topic at hand like this. Instead of doing this, respond appropriately.



Stay away from other's discussions. Even if he's your brother. 
There is a limit to everything. Do not cross it. Enough of your rants in this forum. Time to ease off.
Do not leave your comfort zone. You'll be in deep trouble otherwise.


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## darkv0id (May 23, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Can't reply!!!!!! The only thing you do in this thread is blabber. Not only here but also in other threads, most notably programming threads.
> *This wasn't any ad hominem mate! * You are going too far all the time and tend to leave your own comfort zone. You drag yourself into pits, you can't climb out.



Sir, do you even know what ad-hominem means? It means attacking the person presenting the argument, rather than the argument itself. dead5 says Watch_Dogs' AI was achieved much earlier via FSM. Instead of disproving this claim, you decide to test his knowledge of FSM. I believe that is the very definition of ad hominem.


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## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

No offence vickybat, but was that equation or whatever you call them really necessary? Its like you're trying to look like you're a smartas$ over here 

and ffs, stop telling people what to do, its extremely annoying, especially on the internet forums.


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## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> No offence vickybat, but was that equation or whatever you call them really necessary? Its like you're trying to look like you're a smartas$ over here



Non taken mate, but it was necessary. You don't know the whole picture buddy. Look at other threads and you'll know why.
I know it looks offensive, but i had no choice. 

Programming is no child's play mate and bring FSM into AI programming is like rocket science. There was no need to use terms like that in this thread.
They are from a pure developers perspective and not end users. FSM is not a three letter abbreviation that can be used anywhere. Its far more than that.

That was the point of my post and not only to this context but others as well.


----------



## cyborg47 (May 23, 2013)

And the man has no right to use the word FSM just because he doesn't know it well enough? 
Now that's some kind of freedom /s


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## vickybat (May 23, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> And the man has no right to use the word FSM just because he doesn't know it well enough?
> Now that's some kind of freedom /s



Its not about that. That's why i said you are unaware of the whole picture.
Unchecked freedom also leads to utter chaos and irresponsibility , like its happening here all the time and not once.

Its better if we stop this right here.


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## coderunknown (May 23, 2013)

time for some peace


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