# Do OSS users infringe other copyrights



## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

*Do OSS users infringe other copyrights?*

Do OSS users use pirated stuff?

Ok guys its gonna get dirty. many people here use opensource softwares. also do not support piracy. But many actually download/copy many MP3's, Videos illegally (donot pay for the content)

Now tell me, you guys support OSS or say you are against piracy , but actually have many copyrighted material on you HDD/Mp3 players. Why the double standards?

Is there a single person in this forum who supports OSS and respects GNU GPL and doesnot violate copyrights.

PS:This is not a public poll so no need to worry


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## Faun (Jan 19, 2008)

its coz of human desires, a person can be tempted easily to do things not intended.

Yeah but the %age may differ its like you cant be always true but its the point of view that differs from person to person.


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## iMav (Jan 19, 2008)

y do u think they dont want drm  because its gonna make them pay up for all the taare zameen par or rafeeq tracks the listen to


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## amitava82 (Jan 19, 2008)

First of all OSS and Piracy is completely different issue and far from remotely connected to each other.


iMav said:


> y do u think they dont want drm  because its gonna make them pay up for all the taare zameen par or rafeeq tracks the listen to


As if you will be happy with drm crap since you have legitimate copies of everything in your PC..


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## sakumar79 (Jan 19, 2008)

^^^ While OSS and Piracy are two entirely different issues, what the pollster is saying is that many people embrace OSS to avoid paying for commercial software and still get the work done legally... However, they skip this thought when it comes to music/movie downloads...

IMHO, there is another thing too... One main gripe of OSS advocaters about closed-source software is that there is no way to tell if they are ripping off open source work or not... In that context, if they gripe about somebody ripping off their work, and then embrace piracy (whatever their justification may be), they are being hypocritical...

Arun


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## QwertyManiac (Jan 19, 2008)

Charan said:


> Ok guys its gonna get dirty. many people here use opensource softwares. also do not support piracy. But many actually download/copy many MP3's, Videos illegally (donot pay for the content)
> 
> Now tell me, you guys support OSS or say you are against piracy , but actually have many copyrighted material on you HDD/Mp3 players. Why the double standards?
> 
> ...


I thought there was a difference between Software piracy and other types. Using OSS is just one step further than using an illegit Windows to do the same.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

well, I haven't buyed any music so far *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/31a.gif *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/106.gif


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

> Now tell me, you guys support OSS or say you are against piracy , but actually have many copyrighted material on you HDD/Mp3 players. Why the double standards?



I think you are misunderstanding the point. I run OSS cause I want to. Second of all whats the deal with title "*OSS users infringe other copyrights?*" . Do Window users get the same material for free?


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## iMav (Jan 19, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> "*OSS users infringe other copyrights?*" . Do Window users get the same material for free?


 what he means is that OSS users blow the trumpet abt the fact that they use FOSS but when it comes to music and vids they are perfectly fine with using pirated content ... thats what he means by the bolded part of the quote


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

> what he means is that OSS users blow the trumpet abt the fact that they use FOSS but when it comes to music and vids they are perfectly fine with using pirated content



Lol well most of Music Collection is Original anyway (Emphasis on * most*). I doubt any OSS user condones Piracy but thats just my view.


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## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

amitava82 said:


> First of all OSS and Piracy is completely different issue and far from remotely connected to each other.





QwertyManiac said:


> I thought there was a difference between Software piracy and other types. Using OSS is just one step further than using an illegit Windows to do the same.



Arun has replied what I wanted to say 


sakumar79 said:


> ^^^ While OSS and Piracy are two entirely different issues, what the pollster is saying is that many people embrace OSS to avoid paying for commercial software and still get the work done legally... However, they skip this thought when it comes to music/movie downloads...





> Lol well most of Music Collection is Original anyway (Emphasis on most)


Well even most of mine are or in other words ( I stoped downloading pirated music ).. I started to buy music/DVD's when I started earning.


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## Faun (Jan 19, 2008)

Charan said:


> Arun has replied what I wanted to say
> 
> 
> 
> Well even most of mine are or in other words ( I stoped downloading pirated music ).. I started to buy music/DVD's when I started earning.


yeah thats the catch, you earn u can buy but for the one dependent on pocket money its quite impossible to buy everything.

On a second note even riches enjoy downloading pirated material over their mbit of connection.

So one cant just always link piracy to the financial resaons, some do enjoy breaking rules, doing illegal things and boasting arnd


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

listening to music is a sheer pleasure, paying to music is a sheer pressure... lol

Well, I support OSS, but wont use OSSs much. I will use them only for experimental purpose. 

Fortunately I have legal copy of XP running on my machine..


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## Hitboxx (Jan 19, 2008)

_Wtf?!_ Does that thread title even make any sense? You're asking about OSS double standards implying you actually mean those using non-OSS _*are*_ pirates/thieves. Forget OSS/non-OSS thing, AFAIT there isn't a single user(including me) on this forum who doesn't have a single unpaid mp3.


			
				iMav said:
			
		

> y do u think they dont want drm  because its gonna make them pay up for all the taare zameen par or rafeeq tracks the listen to


As if., you got all *original* legal stuff on your hard drive along with your *original* Windows. 

Piracy is everywhere, face it, whether you use OSS or not.

This thread is total bollocks.

Edit: And don't compare the spirit of OSS with that of the pirates.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

Hitboxx said:


> This thread is total bollocks.



CRAP.....


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

Actually I do agree with hitboxx on this.  The thread implies that all non - OSS users are pirates. Further more I think you are missing the point Ive been trying to get across. 



> ^^^ While OSS and Piracy are two entirely different issues, what the pollster is saying is that many people embrace OSS to avoid paying for commercial software and still get the work done legally... However, they skip this thought when it comes to music/movie downloads...



I do not use OSS to avoid paying although it is a huge plus. I use it cause I want to use it , or *I feel *I have a technically superior product, etc. As I said before I don't condemn Piracy. Whatever rocks your boat.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

well.... guys please discuss regarding the topic.. DONT BLAME THE TITLE or one who STARTED THE THREAD...

Charan is a experience member here and he knows better than us, regarding wat to discuss and not. 

Do u guys think the thread is saying that all OSS users are pirates ?

Well, if u are a OSS user and using pirated music, better agree it and stop flaming others...

I know charan personlly!

He buys music.. and uses OSS


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## sourav123 (Jan 19, 2008)

Hi,

As far as I am concerned, I used to download or copy a lot of music or movies when I was in college. The simple reaon for that was I did not have enough money to pay for at that time. As I am earning now, I have decided to pay for music and buy from the music stores. I will say, that this depends on people's mindset. What I think is that the artists themselves need to earn money and if we can buy original music CD's then they get some money and can invest their time on making new and good music.

Agin when it comes to movies, it is a different story from music. This is because when you buy music, you will listen to that again and again. But you cannot watch a movie all the time. So although I don't pay for movies, I have decided to rent movies from rental stores like seventymm. This also ensures that some revenue of what you spend goes to the artists. Also I dont like watching pirated CD/DVDs because their picture quality is crap and can never match those of the original ones.

As far as software is concerned, till now I have managed to do it without pirated softwares. Also this is easy for softwares as there are a lot of softwares for which you dont have to pay anything but get your job done.


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

> well.... guys please discuss regarding the topic.. DONT BLAME THE TITLE or one who STARTED THE THREAD...



Im blaming the title not the person who posted it. Personally I see Charan around in IRC , not now a days though  . 



> Charan is a experience member here and he knows better than us, regarding wat to discuss and not.


If you believe that since you have a higher post count than me makes you 4 times more smarter you need to wake up from that little dreamworld of yours. 


> Do u guys think the thread is saying that all OSS users are pirates ?


No on the contrary I don't recall saying anything accusing him that he called me or any OSS user a pirate. 


> Well, if u are a OSS user and using pirated music, better agree it and stop flaming others...


Which portion of my post was hard for you to interpret? 


> I know charan personlly!
> He buys music.. and uses OSS


Good for you and him. Why should anyone care again? As I would say other places "Drama Sucks".  (The actual phrase has been edited to suit the rules of the forum)


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> If you believe that since you have a higher post count than me makes you 4 times more smarter you need to wake up from that little dreamworld of yours.



Funky!

Did I say i'm more superior than u? Okie.. i'll come out of the dreamworld, and u stop saying I've less post counts than u, but still I'm superior than me..!




exx_2000 said:


> Which portion of my post was hard for you to interpret?



Did I say everything for u? I've replied in general.


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## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

@giga .. dont bring personal things here  ..


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

> Funky!
> Did I say i'm more superior than u? Okie.. i'll come out of the dreamworld, and u stop saying I've less post counts than u, but still I'm superior than u..!



Funky?!?! ROFLMAO  ..... Lets not even go discussing about that. You do realize you have * MORE * posts than I do. Second of all where in my post do I say that you are superior than me ? It is your belief that post count somehow represents some kind of knowledge indicator. Which I said is absolutely rubbish. Come back and try again when you improve your reading comprehension. For your sake I'll quote what I said. 



> If you believe that since you have a higher post count than me makes you 4 times more smarter you need to wake up from that little dreamworld of yours.


 



> Did I say everything for u? I've replied in general.


And I have replied as an OSS user. What did you expect?


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## Hitboxx (Jan 19, 2008)

@gigacore, no personal takes on Charan or anyone. You can never be personal online whatever it may be. If you get so bothered by reading things online, you need to control your emotions.

@Charan, regarding the title, *Do OSS users infringe other copyrights, *you have already assumed OSS users infringe copyrights, please can you say what are those? I _disagree_ with this title here.

Please ask some mod to remove "other" from the title.


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## drgrudge (Jan 19, 2008)

An interesting topic.  

Unless the Music and the Movie industry is also made OSS, we'll have copyright infringes. But with OSS in your PC, the piracy is less than 40-50%. 

Instead of: 
Case 1. 
- Pirated Windows (iMav uses Pirated OS X in PC; both illegal in his case)
- Pirated Softwares 
- Pirated Music 
- Pirated Movies

Case 2
- Pirated Music 
- Pirated Movies
- very minimal piracy in other departments. 


So which is better? Also even though we might pirate, some are generous. 


Honestly in my case: 
- Original OS X Leopard
- 60% Mac Apps are FOSS (Adium, Cyberduck, VLC, Firefox, Quicksilver, The Unarchiver, etc..). 
- 20% of the apps come with OS X
- 20% is paid closed source apps. I planning to buy CSSEdit for $30. If I like any app, I'll continue to support them.
- Most of the good movies, I watch in the Cinemas, if I saw in some pirates means. I saw Lage Raho Munnabhai in my PC first. I liked it very much and saw the movie again the Cinemas just to support the producer in a small way I can. I saw TZP 2 times in the Cinemas. I don't buy DVDs but I sure make a point to visit Cinemas just to support the guys.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> Funky?!?! ROFLMAO  ..... Lets not even go discussing about that. You do realize you have * MORE * posts than I do. Second of all where in my post do I say that you are superior than me ? It is your belief that post count somehow represents some kind of knowledge indicator. Which I said is absolutely rubbish.



ROFLMAO.. funky again!

Yup, I've more post counts.. but does post count matters man ? I really dont care about post counts... 

And i'vent massed up my post count purposefully... its just because I had enough time to spend in this forum and comment on each and every post in the beginning. Now a days.. I'm not aware of my post counts at all. I came to know that I have 2700+ posts when u started this discussion.. really!

And if u can just search all my posts, u can see few hundreds saying "Thanks for the info"... Did I say "thanks for the info" few hundred time to mass up my post count?

Na.. I just want to encourage people..



> Come back and try again when you improve your reading comprehension. For your sake I'll quote what I said.



I dont want you to teach me the grammer and reading skills. 



> If you believe that since you have a higher post count than me makes you 4 times more smarter *you need to wake up from that little dreamworld of yours.*



So you mean to say that "though u have more post counts than me, i'm superior than u"...

wat a crap..

AFAIK... no one is superior. Everyone has their own potential.

And.. coming back to topic.. If u think OSS users are really pirates by using pirated music.. then they are pirates...



Hitboxx said:


> @gigacore, no personal takes on Charan or anyone. You can never be personal online whatever it may be. If you get so bothered by reading things online, you need to control your emotions.



Okay.... crap


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## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

Hitboxx said:


> @Charan, regarding the title, *Do OSS users infringe other copyrights, *you have already assumed OSS users infringe copyrights, please can you say what are those?
> 
> Please ask some mod to remove "other" from the title.



Please read the title again "*Do* OSS users infringe other copyrights" I have missed a "?" 

The Other are -- Music and Movie Copyrights.. 



> I _disagree_ with this title here.


then would the title "OSS users also use Pirated stuffs" be ok?


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

Charan said:


> then would the title "OSS users also use Pirated stuffs" be ok?



ROFL


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## Hitboxx (Jan 19, 2008)

Charan said:


> Please read the title again "*Do* OSS users infringe other copyrights" I have missed a "?"
> 
> The Other are -- Music and Movie Copyrights..
> 
> ...


Yes, *"Do OSS users use pirated stuff?" *will be more appropriate.


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm only going to post this because you took the time to address me. So here goes:- 

As per your post:



> AFAIK... no one is superior. Everyone has their own potential.





> Charan is a experience member here and he knows better than us, regarding wat to discuss and not.



As long as I follow the rules of this forum I shall discuss what I believe bears relevance to the industry. Authority measured in any form such as Post Count, Membership date is just pure lame. Hence I maintain what I said any post count or join date doesn't mean squat. You might have helped random user 106 and helped him from saving the end of the world. Personally * I don't care.* 

You seemed to think that I was staging some kind of assault on Charan which I personally have no gains on doing so. 



> And.. coming back to topic.. If u think OSS users are really pirates by using pirated music.. then they are pirates...



If you use pirated music then * you are a pirate.* Theres no such thing as semi-pirates, OSS-Pirates etc. Piracy retains to everyone. Like iMav said if you maintain the high standards of I use OSS to curb Piracy then stop using those downloaded mp3s you got off of some torrent or P2P network.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

crap


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## sakumar79 (Jan 19, 2008)

Now that the air has been cleared about the title, lets get back to discussing the issue... More comments from OSS users please...

Arun


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

yeah, please come back to topic


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## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

@giga and exx_2000 , calm down guys .. we are all on the same boat.

@mods: pls change the title to "Do OSS users use pirated stuff?"


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

well... I really dont want to fight for POST COUNTS *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/31a.gif

wat a crap *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/33a.gif

ok.. come back to topic


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## FilledVoid (Jan 19, 2008)

> @giga and exx_2000 , calm down guys .. we are all on the same boat.


Im calm  

However posts like these are just hilarious. 


> crap



I don't care about the topic title much though. The only ones I have pirated are some English ones I couldn't find here. Example is Band of brothers ( I love this Movie) Ive been begging my dealer to get the boxxed one but every person he asks can't get as copy of it. Some songs (read as outrageous gangster music lol) also which I downloaded from US , having a 5 mbps connection is pretty much fun  .


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## eddie (Jan 19, 2008)

Weird thread title and a weirder thought behind the thread.

Can someone tell me that what is there in a Open Source Software that makes its users saints or copyright fanatics (which is what this thread intends to show them like)? I didn't get any red and blue pills with my Ubuntu 7.10 download. I just got an ISO which I burnt on a CD. Also, it didn't make me sign any kind of an oath that would make me pledge against piracy for my life and it didn't force me to do any thing in a certain way.

If any one sees OSS movement as against piracy or the philosophy behind the movement as anti-piracy then I am very sorry to say but he/she is very narrow sighted (minded?). User's not being a software pirate is not a motive of OSS movement...that is just a by-product. So any OSS user pirating is not going against any philosophy. He/she is doing what he/she feels best to do with his/her computer...*The philosophy behind OSS movement*


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## naveen_reloaded (Jan 19, 2008)

Why was giga banned?


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

naveen_reloaded said:


> Why was giga banned?




Really ?


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## naveen_reloaded (Jan 19, 2008)

Rofl..
Nice one my friend..
One moment i was like sad..i searched all you last post..i thought you were banned for saying something here in this thread..good..ok now give me a treat..


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## RCuber (Jan 19, 2008)

Yes this is the reply I was looking for.



eddie said:


> Can someone tell me that what is there in a Open Source Software that makes its users saints or copyright fanatics (which is what this thread intends to show them like)? I didn't get any red and blue pills with my Ubuntu 7.10 download. I just got an ISO which I burnt on a CD. Also, it didn't make me sign any kind of an oath that would make me pledge against piracy for my life and it didn't force me to do any thing in a certain way.


so you say you dont care about GNU GPL or Music/Movie copyrights. 



> If any one sees OSS movement as against piracy or the philosophy behind the movement as anti-piracy then I am very sorry to say but he/she is very narrow sighted (minded?).


I use OSS and understand what it ment for. 


> *The philosophy behind OSS movement*



Many OSS are distributed under GNU GPL License and many here understand it very well. They also promote OSS, even in irrelevent threads. I have been asked by many to make our software opensource, to be specific to be released under GPL. 

where does this come to ? 

OSS supporters want everything to be under GNU GPL or its varients, but on the other hand dont give a damn about respecting others copyright. They even go against technologies which is trying to protect copyrighted material for been distributed illegally.

And where are the other guys who helped me learn about OSS? you guys have nothing to say?


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## drgrudge (Jan 19, 2008)

Gigacore said:


> Really ?


Looks like I've to edit his User title. Or if you want to banned, I can do that also. Please edit it yourself as it's confusing.


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## Gigacore (Jan 19, 2008)

naveen_reloaded said:


> Rofl..
> Nice one my friend..
> One moment i was like sad..i searched all you last post..i thought you were banned for saying something here in this thread..good..ok now give me a treat..



lol... here it is

*www.onlinecooking.net/news/NewsImages/ice%20cream%20in%20cup.jpg



drgrudge said:


> Looks like I've to edit his User title. Or if you want to banned, I can do that also. Please edit it yourself as it's confusing.



Just for few days please...


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## nvidia (Jan 19, 2008)

ROFL!
What a thread....

I use pirated stuff.. And nobody can stay away from piracy.....


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## Faun (Jan 19, 2008)

Obviously

simon lies inside us


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## RCuber (Jan 20, 2008)

well well .. no replies.. only 15 users voted.. There are many more here to vote.. 
What should I consider?

1. Its a baseless thread.
2. Use it only because its a superior software but dont give a sh!t to the licence which is included with it. 
3. You are guilty of "Double Standards". You want people to embrase GPL but you your self violate other copyrights.

I want all who know me to consider me just as any other user and reply honestly.


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## naveen_reloaded (Jan 20, 2008)

Gigacore said:


> lol... here it is
> 
> *www.onlinecooking.net/news/NewsImages/ice%20cream%20in%20cup.jpg
> 
> ...




Thanks giga...


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## Gigacore (Jan 20, 2008)

^ okie..

why did the find end ?


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## FilledVoid (Jan 20, 2008)

> Many OSS are distributed under GNU GPL License and many here understand it very well. They also promote OSS, even in irrelevent threads. I have been asked by many to make our software opensource, to be specific to be released under GPL.
> 
> where does this come to ?
> 
> OSS supporters want everything to be under GNU GPL or its varients, but on the other hand dont give a damn about respecting others copyright. They even go against technologies which is trying to protect copyrighted material for been distributed illegally.



I've always hated fanboyism in any kind of form. Whether it be Linux , Windows or Polka Dot trousers. In this forum if you happen to mention Windows / Linux does "XXXXXX" in any thread it happens to end up in an OS war thread.  

As far as your software is concerned, Be free to release it under whatever License you are pleased with  . I guess others probably might have asked for it to be GPL so they could learn to code from it or probably adapt it to their needs (Don't quote me on this though.) ?



> 1. Its a baseless thread.


To an extent yes. 


> 2. Use it only because its a superior software but dont give a sh!t to the licence which is included with it.


Are we talking about the License included with a Linux distro or the License included with Songs and Videos? As far as the License of any Linux distro is concerned I thought you could modify it or use it as you please. 


> 3. You are guilty of "Double Standards". You want people to embrase GPL but you your self violate other copyrights.


You are assuming that every other OSS user on this forum some how adopts the high standard of "I don't Pirate cause I'm using OSS stuff". For example , I use Ubuntu , the only thing  I have which is not legal is probably what I have mentioned above. Everything else I have is from the repositories that Ubuntu provides.


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## praka123 (Jan 20, 2008)

For me,I moved long back to FOSS,NOT due to cost factor JFYI.I felt it is superior and the ideas of Open Source and Open Standards are what make knowledge spreads without locks(EULA,DRM,Software Patents,M$,apple,RIAA etc  ).

and with music,I dont think there is any use of dragging FOSS users to a complete different thing!

OH!and I got music bought.no ONLINE buying!just mp3 cds,few movie dvd's.and rarely take on rental(i dont know about the legality!)..yes,i do tries torrents sometimes.


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## RCuber (Jan 20, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> I've always hated fanboyism in any kind of form. Whether it be Linux , Windows or Polka Dot trousers. In this forum if you happen to mention Windows / Linux does "XXXXXX" in any thread it happens to end up in an OS war thread.


Im not a fanboy too.. I too use Linux and consided superior over other OS. 


> As far as your software is concerned, Be free to release it under whatever License you are pleased with  . I guess others probably might have asked for it to be GPL so they could learn to code from it or probably adapt it to their needs (Don't quote me on this though.) ?


This is the place when I realised the importance of GPL Licence.. 



> Are we talking about the License included with a Linux distro or the License included with Songs and Videos?


Im talking about the GPL licence. 


> As far as the License of any Linux distro is concerned I thought you could modify it or use it as you please.


Perfect.. Now can I release a Modified version of Ubuntu which has my name everywhere in that OS and also the source code will not be available unless $100 is paid,  Can I do that?



> You are assuming that every other OSS user on this forum some how adopts the high standard of "I don't Pirate cause I'm using OSS stuff".


To be specific OSS promoters should say "I don't Pirate cause I understand about Copyrights and Copylefts".



praka123 said:


> For me,I moved long back to FOSS,NOT due to cost factor JFYI.I felt it is superior and the ideas of Open Source and Open Standards are what make knowledge spreads without locks(EULA,DRM,Software Patents,M$,apple,RIAA etc  ).
> 
> and with music,I dont think there is any use of dragging FOSS users to a complete different thing!
> 
> OH!and I got music bought.no ONLINE buying!just mp3 cds,few movie dvd's.and rarely take on rental(i dont know about the legality!)..yes,i do tries torrents sometimes.




Is that all you have to say? I was expecting more from you.. but its still the same old story..


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## infra_red_dude (Jan 20, 2008)

First of all as most said, OSS and piracy are not related. This thought lurks in the mind because of a fundamental misunderstanding: GNU/Linux (others etc.) is a free ALTERNATIVE to Windows (or paid stuff). OSS and GNU/Linux are NOT ALTERNATIVES to paid software.

Why do I use Linux? Coz I can't afford Windows and I do not want to pirate Windows? No! I use Linux coz I want to and I also use Windows (fyi a legal version) coz again I want to.

If you wanna put forth the analogy that Linux is a free alternative to Windows and people use if only due to that reason then wouldn't it be correct to say OSS users are pirates? I mean, the thinking leads to something like this: OSS users can't buy Windows, so they use free GNU/Linux distros; since they can't buy Windows they won't buy songs, so won't this analogy make them natural pirates???? Hence, this relation is flawed.

Do you think copyright infringement doesn't happen in OSS? Many a times, GPL'd stuff is taken, modified and released under someone's name. So an OSS doesn't come with a bond that you need to adhere to all copyrights otherwise you'd be hanged. There haf been lotsa cases like these.

Secondly, it is a big mistake that OSS = Linux! People say ANi (infra) is an OSS user coz he uses Ubuntu. Correct. But nobody says Ashwin (drgrudge) is an OSS user, but he's Mac user (which is also partly correct). Why? He uses VLC, Adium etc. Doesn't that make him an OSS user? So we need to clear some basic concepts. Who is an OSS user, is OSS an alternative to Windows (and paid software?) Are OSS and piracy related?

Charan, its like saying: Dude, you are an OSS user; so you can't zerox a portion of a novel. Now isn't zeroxing a part of novel also piracy? Why is this not taken into a/c? Just coz its not related to computers? So from the title it is implied that if you are an OSS user you should lead an ideal life, obey all rules, never give bribes (again, isn't it against the laws just like piracy?).

Now I dunno if its piracy but recently I bought an OSO cd and put the ripped music in my cellphone. If it is, then I'm a pirate.

Oh yes, one thing I'm sure of which I pirated (and the only thing I pirated) was downloading a pre-dvd rip of Transformers many months which I am yet to see!!! (yes, believe it or not I've still not seen Transformers).

Other than this I haf not pirated anything. But then you can't say hey I haf only one pirated movie which I've not even seen and dunno if I'll see it. Ther is no "degree" of piracy. A pirate is a pirate. So whether I watch it or delete it without watching, I've downloaded it; so I pirated it.

I goto theater to watch movies; I don't listen to music much other than soothing instrumentals (which I buy and rip, so prolly I'm a pirate again). If I like a movie, I buy the DVD (Thanks for moserbaer  ).

To answer your question in my words:


> *Do OSS users infringe other copyrights*



Yes, I do. I pirate by zeroxing parts of text books during my exams, I break laws by somtimes by jumping signals, I haf the legally bought-ripped OSO songs and instrumentals on my cellphone, I haf Transformers pre-DVD "downloaded" rip on my HDD. So do I infringe other copyrights? YES.

Is is correct for "OSS Users" to infringe other copyrights? YOU DECIDE IT AFTER READING MY REPLY ABOVE.

PS: Charan, No Flash on my PC. I go there to work on it. And I'm trying out Quanta now. I know you'd ask about it, so clarifying here


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## Faun (Jan 20, 2008)

who made up all the rule, we follow them like fools, but leave them to be true, don't care to think them through. 

..lol


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## shantanu (Jan 20, 2008)

drgrudge : i guess you should take care of the thread in which you are present..


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## FilledVoid (Jan 20, 2008)

> Im not a fanboy too.. I too use Linux and consided superior over other OS.


I don't recall implying that you were one? 


> Im talking about the GPL licence.


Read the below . I believe it contains a more than adequate enough explanation to your question about Ubuntu and the GPL License. 


> When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs, and that you know you can do these things.
> 
> To protect your rights, we need to prevent others from denying you these rights or asking you to surrender the rights. Therefore, you have certain responsibilities if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it: responsibilities to respect the freedom of others.
> 
> *For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.*



Source : *www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html 



> To be specific OSS promoters should say "I don't Pirate cause I understand about Copyrights and Copylefts"



You answered your phrase adequately enough. Emphasis on "OSS Promoters."


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## Gigacore (Jan 20, 2008)

duh

*www.cmta.com/Home_files/logo_250.jpg

THE FACTS ABOUT DOWNLOADING, FILE SHARING, AND CD BURNING


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## QwertyManiac (Jan 20, 2008)

Gigacore - What does that link prove? :\ Duh yourself.


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## FilledVoid (Jan 20, 2008)

Yes regardless of whether you are an OSS user or not it just doesn't make it right.


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## Gigacore (Jan 20, 2008)

QwertyManiac said:


> Gigacore - What does that link prove? :\ Duh yourself.



nope.. not regarding the fight.. and not about OSS too.. just wanted share the link coz i found really a shocking thing for me... 

I searched for that after few fight here and read it twice.. this is wat made me to share the link:



> *EFFECTS ON YOU*
> Music piracy doesn’t just affect the music industry, it affects you as well. When you use software that facilitates illegal downloads, you open your computer to unwanted pornography, security breaches, and viruses. Illegal downloading and file-sharing is also subject to federal prosecution. Here are a few facts:
> 
> 1. The RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) can sue for as much as $150,000 per song illegally downloaded.
> ...



Now i'm aware of how dangerous can the music piracy can be..


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## RCuber (Jan 21, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> First of all as most said, OSS and piracy are not related. This thought lurks in the mind because of a fundamental misunderstanding: GNU/Linux (others etc.) is a free ALTERNATIVE to Windows (or paid stuff). OSS and GNU/Linux are NOT ALTERNATIVES to paid software.
> Why do I use Linux? Coz I can't afford Windows and I do not want to pirate Windows? No! I use Linux coz I want to and I also use Windows (fyi a legal version) coz again I want to.
> 
> If you wanna put forth the analogy that Linux is a free alternative to Windows and people use if only due to that reason then wouldn't it be correct to say OSS users are pirates? I mean, the thinking leads to something like this: OSS users can't buy Windows, so they use free GNU/Linux distros; since they can't buy Windows they won't buy songs, so won't this analogy make them natural pirates???? Hence, this relation is flawed.


I never said OSS and piracy are related, its the OSS supporters im relating to copyright violation. Also check back I never mentioned about windows.. I always wrote about copyright violation.



> Secondly, it is a big mistake that OSS = Linux! People say ANi (infra) is an OSS user coz he uses Ubuntu. Correct. But nobody says Ashwin (drgrudge) is an OSS user, but he's Mac user (which is also partly correct). Why? He uses VLC, Adium etc. Doesn't that make him an OSS user? So we need to clear some basic concepts. Who is an OSS user, is OSS an alternative to Windows (and paid software?) Are OSS and piracy related?


Yes you are correct. OSS is not Linux.. 



> Do you think copyright infringement doesn't happen in OSS? Many a times, GPL'd stuff is taken, modified and released under someone's name. So an OSS doesn't come with a bond that you need to adhere to all copyrights otherwise you'd be hanged. There haf been lotsa cases like these.





> Charan, its like saying: Dude, you are an OSS user; so you can't zerox a portion of a novel. Now isn't zeroxing a part of novel also piracy? Why is this not taken into a/c? Just coz its not related to computers? So from the title it is implied that if you are an OSS user you should lead an ideal life, obey all rules, never give bribes (again, isn't it against the laws just like piracy?).


Im not saying that he should not.. infact copyright violation is a crime.



> Now I dunno if its piracy but recently I bought an OSO cd and put the ripped music in my cellphone. If it is, then I'm a pirate.


You have not made a unauthorised copy, you are using it all by youself and not distributing it. so its not piracy.



> I goto theater to watch movies; I don't listen to music much other than soothing instrumentals (which I buy and rip, so prolly I'm a pirate again). If I like a movie, I buy the DVD (Thanks for moserbaer  ).


ripping music for yourself from the CD which you have bought isnt piracy. 



> PS: Charan, No Flash on my PC. I go there to work on it. And I'm trying out Quanta now. I know you'd ask about it, so clarifying here


No, I would not ask you this question ever nor I have asked any one in this thread regarding other properitory software   .



> Is is correct for "OSS Users" to infringe other copyrights? YOU DECIDE IT AFTER READING MY REPLY ABOVE.


ok .. now here comes the main part.. 

My mistake that I put a wrong title "Do OSS users infringe other Copyrights".
now can we differenciate with OSS users and OSS supporters/promoters ?

An OSS user may or may not know about the licence which came with his software. He uses it cause he likes it. He can do what ever he wants with the product.

Next comes OSS Supporters/Promoters. Who are these guys? 
can these guys be considered as OSS supporters/promoters .


			
				prakash said:
			
		

> I felt it is superior and the ideas of Open Source and Open Standards are what make knowledge spreads without locks





			
				eddie said:
			
		

> *The philosophy behind OSS movement*





			
				hitboxx said:
			
		

> And don't compare the spirit of OSS with that of the pirates.



Now the except from GPL. 


> *To protect your rights, we need to prevent others from denying you these rights or asking you to surrender the rights.
> *



This is the specific line i was looking for.If I deny the rights to the end user then will be violating GPL and the spirit of OSS.. right guys? 



			
				exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Read the below . I believe it contains a more than adequate enough explanation to your question about Ubuntu and the GPL License.


can you tell me one word "Yes" or "No" to my Ubuntu and GPL question.


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## eddie (Jan 21, 2008)

Charan said:


> so you say you dont care about GNU GPL or Music/Movie copyrights.


I care about both of them but they are entirely different. I am not bound to care about one if I care about another. It is not an AND situation where if I care about one thing I *HAVE* to care about the other one. Its not like if I care about GNU GPL...I have to care about Music copyright as well...or vice versa. While using Open Source Software...I am free to do anything I want without any strings attached. Then why am I being targeted to explain my piracy? Why point finger at me or at some other OSS user for instance and make him explain his/her piracy?





> I use OSS and understand what it ment for.


So you ever read something like "Thou Shall not Pirate" in GNU GPL? I am sorry if I missed that part. AFAIK using OSS has nothing to do with condemning or condoning piracy. It is just about using, changing and sharing software you like...the way you want. Where does anyone pirating anything comes in picture anyways?





> Many OSS are distributed under GNU GPL License and many here understand it very well. They also promote OSS, even in irrelevent threads. I have been asked by many to make our software opensource, to be specific to be released under GPL.


Once again...nothing to do with Piracy.





> OSS supporters want everything to be under GNU GPL or its varients, but on the other hand dont give a damn about respecting others copyright.


GNU GPL has nothing do with Copyright...so the whole point is moot.





> They even go against technologies which is trying to protect copyrighted material for been distributed illegally.


Examples?


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## FilledVoid (Jan 21, 2008)

> Next comes OSS Supporters/Promoters. Who are these guys?
> can these guys be considered as OSS supporters/promoters .


My emphasis on OSS Promoters was made towards fanboys. In plain words. If you can't walk the walk, then don't talk the talk.



> can you tell me one word "Yes" or "No" to my Ubuntu and GPL question.


Read the bold part which I have quoted below again for your use. 


> For example, if you distribute copies of such a program,* whether gratis or for a fee*, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. *You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code*. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.


For your further consideration. 


> While Ubuntu will not charge license fees for this distribution, you might well want to charge to print Ubuntu CD's, or create your own customized versions of Ubuntu which you sell, and should have the freedom to do so.


Source : *www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing

How clear cut do you need the answer to be? If you still need the answer then *YES*.  However you must provide the same rights that Ubuntu provided you.


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## eddie (Jan 21, 2008)

Charan said:


> You have not made a unauthorised copy, you are using it all by youself and not distributing it. so its not piracy.
> 
> ripping music for yourself from the CD which you have bought isnt piracy.


Clearly...you know very little about your own rights but want to have an elaborate discussion about them  
*arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2007...lawyer-copying-music-you-own-is-stealing.html
*news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6095612.stm
*www.ncc.org.uk/news_press/pr.php?recordID=271





> My mistake that I put a wrong title "Do OSS users infringe other Copyrights".


At least you realise that you made a very retarded beginning of the thread.





> This is the specific line i was looking for.If I deny the rights to the end user then will be violating GPL and the spirit of OSS.. right guys?


...and the point is?





> can you tell me one word "Yes" or "No" to my Ubuntu and GPL question.


Yes you can...until and unless you don't use Ubuntu's trademarks.


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## praka123 (Jan 21, 2008)

*FOSS supporters are not Hypocrats,JFYI! *

I think the whole question came after someone is juggling between OSS and M$ .net thing  

and from the First itself,am wondering why do this question pointed esp at FOSS users,FOSS supporters  whoever it may be!
*FOSS or CLOSED SOURCE user/supporter,it is upto the individual to choose whether he respects copyright laws or not!*

It is not our duty to make big corporations even more richer.in music,give oppurtunities to small disc labels too!.

Piracy in music/movie can be justified when it become unaffordable for the masses to buy it with huge $$$$ they demands!

when music/movie comes affordable,a major portion of pirates will move to buying original(Moser Baer for eg and that applies for FOSS supporters too.

and there is the major difference between *Knowledge* sharing/Operating Systems(All Technical) and *Entertainment* which,I think you knows.

From My POV,even Open hardware is also a gr8 idea!

and this music/movie piracy is too distant itself from things stated above!and it does not matter whether ur FOSS supporter or not to distuinguish media piracy.

My answer to the question is :"Does any music/movie company have the right to hinder user's right with EULA? with unsuspecting users buy it later to find things like DRM? "


Also,I felt online knowledge sharing will stop with restricting licenses under CC(creative common blah),etc.people who want to share their knowledge should license their online works under GNU GFDL unlike "asking all to come to MY site and give hits so that I can get money thing"
Knowledge grows with sharing.give the credits to Original Authors/Contributors.


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## RCuber (Jan 21, 2008)

^^^ do you know why I took this topic? because of the following thing.



praka123 said:


> DRM Sucks!no other reasons!no persuasion damn EU and their media's.DRM is founded and sponsored by evil minds!*I support pirates rather than DRMing *whole software and hardware!


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## praka123 (Jan 21, 2008)

^I Still think it is better for me to choose piracy when it comes companies do the defensive by playing with user's rights by DRMing etc!
and its my personal opinion only

and if u read the post fully,I have mentioned:


> I support pirates rather than *DRMing whole software and hardware!*



Yes!I pointed to Software and Hardware in Computer Industry/IT Industry!and dragging me to comment on *Music,Movie* where it went wrong for someone?It is upon individuals to choose to pirate or not.enforce things the right way;like raids with police,government support etc,but NOT by DRMing or any such BS!


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## FilledVoid (Jan 21, 2008)

> ^^^ do you know why I took this topic? because of the following thing.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by praka123 View Post
> DRM Sucks!no other reasons!no persuasion damn EU and their media's.DRM is founded and sponsored by evil minds!I support pirates rather than DRMing whole software and hardware!


The problem with DRM is it limits a persons freedom with respect to the product he/she uses. Why shouldn't I be able to switch mp3 players to listen to DRM content at the same quality that I was able to listen to them before?  Its like having a car which will only run if you use JK Tyres (Which is obviously good for JK and bad for the consumer). Maybe my example sucks so I'll post a few others. 



> "1. I want to watch an Egyptian movie for my Middle Eastern studies class. But it is region coded not to play on my DVD player, in an effort to stop piracy. Now I have to hack my DVD player and break the law to get it to play. The movie isn't released in the U.S. This is the only version that was ever published. Since it isn't published in the US, and it's for academic purposes, I can rip it make copies for my classmates. That's fair use.  But since I have to break the DRM to copy it -- I've broken the law anyway.


Source: *blog.wired.com/music/2007/02/how_to_explain_.html

To OSS users its not about DRM preventing Piracy thats the issue . Its the problem with it limiting the freedom that comes with the software / product. Nonetheless I'm not taking the high stance of the "I don't Pirate Vision." As I said before if it suits my needs then yes I might. But insisting on any correlation between OSS users and copyright infringements is sheerly absurd. To illustrate my example further. I would be using the same Pirated Music / Movies if I were using Non-OSS products.


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## RCuber (Jan 21, 2008)

well that answers my question ..

One Last Question.. Is Violation GPL a Crime?


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## QwertyManiac (Jan 21, 2008)

Yes, if copyrighted, and is suable by the copyright holder.


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## RCuber (Jan 21, 2008)

^^ but here people are saying copyright violation and GPL is not related


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## FilledVoid (Jan 21, 2008)

> One Last Question.. Is Violation GPL a Crime?


Yes. 


> ^^ but here people are saying copyright violation and GPL is not related


Unfortunately I'm a bit confused at this point. I always believed that a product which has been licensed under GPL or Creative Commons etc is said to be copyrighted and hence violating the GPL or CC is hence a violation of the copyright. I might be wrong here. But I think that is the case. One gets a copyright only after he/she has licensed whatever product he/she has.


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## QwertyManiac (Jan 21, 2008)

You own the copyright for something you create. You grant licenses to others to use it. 

So copyright violation is quite a bit different from actual GPL violation. Cause you can call it a copyright matter if someone copies your work, and according to the accompanying license, refuses to release the copied work with source. You do need copyrights to protect your work in the first place, license violation is stuck upon this one's violation.


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