# What do u want to change in Microsoft & Windows Vista?



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, enough of fanboyism. Lets talk about something which makes sense. This is India & "Advice" is free , everyone keeps on advising the other to use Windows or to use Linux or to use Mac. *I would like to ask if so many people are pissed at Microsoft then why not come up with the explanation of why u hate Windows or Microsoft & how to change the situation.*

I m making this thread here cos this topic might go into flame wars. Please do not say here that Linux is better & does this or that already. This isn't about what Linux can & cannot do, its about how can you make a product called Windows from a company called Microsoft better. I am also calling Macboys & Lingeeks here to advice Microsoft on how can they make there product better.
*
Plz no DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM of Prakash, or no "Windows sux cos Steve Jobs said so" of Arya here.*

Also if u like, give your ideas about how to make a particular product better. Such as if u want Windows Media Player to sync with iPod then tell that here & also say how can this be done because iPod is closed by Apple from working with WMP.

Starting with my advice....absolutely free 

1) *Reduce cost of Microsoft software such as Windows or Office or SQL Server.* For this, *release the software in an "India only" edition with cost in Rupees* with manufacturing plant in Lucknow (I m biased about production in U.P.'s factories ) with few features removed such as support for Multi Language User Interface (only Hindi & English) & anything server related such as IIS 7 which a home user will never need. Removal of MUI doesn't mean you can't read a Spanish web page, it means Notepad will not have "file" "Edit" menu written in Spanish letters.

Make 2 editions, Windows Vista Home Edition with features like Aero, MCE, DX 10 etc as mentioned above, & another version like Vista Professional with all features of Home edition along with support for running as a server in small business scenario like 20 or 30 computers, full MUI with support for languages like French etc but still without support for running a large scale enterprise server.
*
Set the cost of Home Edition as Rs 2,500 & Professional Edition as Rs 6,000 cos u will be making money by using the pro edition.*
*
Release the "Office 2007 student & teachers edition" which contains only Word 2007, Excel & PowerPoint for Rs 1,000.*

2) *Release your software for other OS & platform. This isn't about releasing technology to other platform*, its about software like Office 2007 Student Edition for Linux at Rs 1,000 or the whole Windows Live Suite for Linux for a modest Price of Rs 500 *so that those who want to use other OS can still buy & continue to use your product such as these despite of these being closed source.*

No need to open up DirectX source code for Linux, just make a runtime for Linux & Mac. The SDK should remain Windows only so that if you want to make a game in DirectX you have to use Windows due to better control over the architecture in Windows because Microsoft makes the Windows kernel & they know how to optimise the DirectX for Windows. Microsoft isn't making kernel for Linux or Mac OS X so they should not optimise for Mac or Linux kernel, it isn't there responsibility. If Apple or Linux want optimised DirectX then come to Microsoft Labs, work with MS & get an optimised version for Linux & Mac kernel & Display model.

3) *Close the hardware from hacking.* If someone hacks XBOX 360 with a modchip or something like that, then stop giving any support. *Microsoft isn't responsible if u break your XBOX with a mod chip. *Either pay for repair or get a new one. Physical damage due to consumer usage does not come in repair warranty anyway for almost any company.

4) *Let users remove the components from Windows which they do not need during the installation process*. In other words integrate vLite in Windows installation. For example User can either leave all drivers of printer or remove all but the drivers of HP printers only. Later on, if the user needs something like MCE which he removed during installation, he can simply insert the DVD & install it. (Which we can already do in Windows right now, just that it is installed by default whether u use it or not.)
*
More ideas & free advice awaited. I will myself forward these with other MVP to Microsoft feedback & developement team.

These are the things MS cannot do

*1) They cannot lock the kernel from 3rd party intrusion such as virus or  security software due to a Lawsuit of Symantec & Mcafee which prevents MS from doing this.

2) MS cannot bundle third party tools with Windows in the CD like Firefox or Adobe Reader cos MS isn't making them & it is not allowed for MS to bundle them

 3) Windows cannot be made open source. If you say that with open source code you can mould Windows to look & feel the way you want, then you can already do this using various Microsoft or non-Microsoft tools to mould Windows Vista according to your own preference.

* So far these are some feedback* forum members have given that they would like to see

1) Better connectivity between different OS powered machines.

This requires work from both the sides. If Linux vendors won't come forward then it is tough to implement then what it is today

2) Windows should provide native support for read & write of HFS+, EXT2 & EXT3 file system.

In the meantime you can use Macdrive to read Mac OS X HFS+ Paritions. To read & write to Linux EXT2 & EXT3 Partition & File system in Windows you can use Ext2IFS

3) Ability to customize every part of start menu

4) A better antivirus than live one care & better security

In the meantime you can try many free AV solutions such as Bitdefener or Avast

5) Fast startups and installations

Vista installs here on my machine in 25 mins flat, then 10 minutes of auto configuration & optimisation of .net Libraries. Plz hibernate instead of restarting & Vista will resume within 8 seconds.

6) Zero configuration networking

7) More responsiveness of menus and dialogs. 

To change the menu show delay in Windows, open registry -> Go to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop -> Click on the value "MenuShowDelay" in the right hand pane -> set value to 50 (this is in milisecond)

8 ) Networking/ssh/ftp/services start on Windows before the GUI

9) Give some customizing option in the OS install menu to remove IE, disk defragement etc

In the meantime, you can use vLite to make your own Vista installation disk with all your drivers included & remove all components which u don't need.

10) Low balloon tips

You can disable balloon tips in Windows by using the following method

11) Automatic mounting of ISO files in Windows as a virtual Disk

You can do this using Daemon tools easily or Virtual CloneDrive. However if you like you can simply install a Powertoy from Microsoft to mount ISO file as a virtual CD. I m working on a registry tweak so that it can be given as an option when right clicking on an ISO File.

12) To configure the Vista bootloader so that you can boot into Linux from Vista bootloader itself, have a look at EasyBCD 1.7. 
for GUi installation.  For manual installation you can read the tutorial to boot linux using Vista's bootloader

13) Windows Vista comes with inbuilt CD/DVD burning capability like Windows XP. Just select the files that u want to burn & click on the "Burn" button on the tasks toolbar. If you still want a 3rd party software to burn CD/DVD & more complex control then you can use a very good 3rd Party utility called InfraRecorder

* Cost of Windows Vista & Office.

*You can always find the *cost of* different editions of *Windows Vista & Office 2007 in* either *US Dollers from Newegg* or in India Rupess from *Deltapage
*
*For general home usage* *Windows Vista Home Premium is all you will ever need *& is my recommendation to anyone looking to buy legit Vista.

Comparision of various edtions of Windows Vista 

You can upgrade from one edition of Windows Vista to any other edition at any time using Windows Anytime Upgrade

When it comes to Microsoft office, for home use you will not need more then Word, Excel & Powerpoint. Have a look at *Office 2007 Student & teachers edition*. Here is a comparision of all Office 2007 Editions

*img376.imageshack.us/img376/5450/office2007suitesba8.jpg

Or if you use Outlook & not powerpoint then you can also have a look at Office 2007 basic edition

Right now the current Legit cost of Windows Vista Home premum + Office 2007 is Rs 9.5k. This is indeed a high price, but if you can pay for it then it is obviously worth it as u are going to use it for many years to come.

I*f you find office 2007 costly* for yours needs, you can also give a look at OpenOffice.org which is a free open source office suite which will suffice your needs most of the times in home usage.


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## nish_higher (Sep 7, 2007)

10\10 man..thats what we need.also i'd love if microsoft gives lifetime free updates when every new version is launched..image line gives that.


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## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

u really wanna know what everybody wants. ?
truth might be hurting sometimes.


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## RCuber (Sep 7, 2007)

Licensing.. yep .. if I buy a new PC .. I want to transfer my licence from my OLD PC.. I should not be forced to buy a new license. 

I also want them to release .NET framework for all existing operating systems.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> also i'd love if microsoft gives lifetime free updates when every new version is launched..image line gives that.


You mean like free upgrade from Windows Vista to Windows 7 without paying any money for the developement cost of Windows 7?



> u nearly wanna know what everybody want. ?
> truth might be hurting sometimes.


I have seen enough for fanboyism here. Everyone whines about this & that...but if someone has no solution to a problem due to which they hate MS then plz STFU & stop whining . Thats why I m saying, tell us all here what would u like MS to change.?



> I want to transfer my license from my OLD PC.. I should not be forced to buy a new license.


You can already do this with Windows Vista. If you have retail edition of Vista installed & activated on a computer, & you buy a new computer then you can simply install Vista on the new computer first in trial mode for 30 days without entering any key. After that you can enter your old Windows CD key to activate Windows in which case it will "move" your license from your old computer to new computer.

Your old computer will still continue to work but it will fail to pass the WGA check if you use Windows Update because you have "moved" the license to new computer hardware.

You can do this as long as u have the same motherboard & hard disk in every new computer. A very good solution for enthusiasts who usually keep on changing the hardware every 3 months. They don't need to re-activate or call MS support. If they have same hard disk & motherboard, Vista will simply activate fine. If you change both of these components "together" then you have to call Microsoft tech support & tell them the situation after which they will re-activate your Windows on phone.



> I also want them to release .NET framework for all existing operating systems.



Microsoft is supporting .Net on Mac & Linux in form of MONO Project


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

better connectivity between different OS powered machines ... bluetooth as of now is difficult if u have 1 xp and 1 vista .... iv even read wired connectivity between vista and xp has given some problems


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> better connectivity between different OS powered machines


Sure, this needs participation from other OS too. So Linux should come forward & work with MS like Novell is doing with silverlight support in Linux as moonlight



> bluetooth as of now is difficult if u have 1 xp and 1 vista .... iv even read wired connectivity between vista and xp has given some problems


Thanx. Point noted . However this compability problem is not universal. So plz provide feedback to Microsoft with Error reporting or Merawindows.com

Come on guys, we need more advice. I urge Linux & Mac users to also come here & advice MS. Its better to be friendly then be enemy.


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## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I have seen enough for fanboyism here.


i 2 have seen that enough of it here. 

that is why hav a look at my signature, it is basically meant for people like u and some more.

its basically the fanboys who bring a bad name to an OS/softwares, yes fanboys, who keep imposing their damn dumb ideas not to use anything else becoz i hate this & that,  eg, u can take the iphone or apple threads here, where u hav been crying like a small baby after each of arya's thread and saying i'm not buying this products coz of it does nto have cut option, i'm not buying this coz i cannot install this soft, and repeating the same thing in every new apple thread, and hijack every thread. If u dont like or dont want to buy it "STFU", who d hell is tellin u 2 buy those stuff. 

I'm also an windows user, and there r lot of people who r using it here, but still they never rant abt their OS like some of u guys do, basically they argue with MS fanboys with their absurd ideas. I dont want such MS fanboys to keep whining..... & whining abt the OS and make others not to select their own choices, I want those Kids to grow up , and stop Microsoft not 2 fool such kids/fanboys. This is want everybody wants, can this happen, i'm sure... NO Never. So keep an handkerchief nearby b4 u start again crying abt it and spoiling threads.

i'm sure the next reply would be this has nothing 2 do with MS.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

vish i request u to dig up a thread made by din in the technology section where he pointed out fanboyism and i have replied to ur concerns there ....


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

vish786 said:
			
		

> If u dont like or dont want to buy it "STFU", who d hell is tellin u 2 buy those stuff.


I don't want to argue with u here. 

If you have some idea about how to improve Microsoft's business practise & Windows OS then plz provide it here. If not then this thread is something you are not required to post in.


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## nish_higher (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You mean like free upgrade from Windows Vista to Windows 7 without paying any money for the developement cost of Windows 7?


 exactly.may sound wierd but check how image line does that with FL Studio.and it costs 12000-thats more than vista ultimate.
this is just a suggestion.not a thing i need the most.but i'd love to have a demo version atleast so that v can try an os or application instead of buggy betas and rc's.and of course i forgot to mention the ability to be able to read\write mac formatted drives-pods and hard drives.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

vish i wonder u chose this topic to come into a diuscussion and refrained in almost all others ...


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## kumarmohit (Sep 7, 2007)

I do not agree with the three suggestion of GX. While modifying software is not legal coz I licensed it, The XBOX is purchased not licensed. I shall do whatever I want with my Xbox unit. and MS should not stop support (not warranty) for all those components which I did not touch


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## mediator (Sep 7, 2007)

change in Microsoft & Windows Vista? => MS's stupid FUDS bt Linux. Tell them that first and lets see if they listen to an MVP! I sympathise with the MVP whome they treated harshly!


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

@kumar how is that possible ... dude a gurantee or warranty is given to a whole product and not on individual components


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> exactly.may sound wierd but check how image line does that with FL Studio.and it costs 12000-thats more than vista ultimate.



You have a point but both are different software. FL Studio doesn't run on every computer out there & the users of FL Studio are not as many as that of Windows. 

From one version of FL Studio to another version, there isn't more then 10 or 20% change in the core software. However in case of Windows OS there is a huge change which costs much more money then the developement of FL Studio XX over FL Studio X. This is one of the primary reasons Windows 7 cannot be given as a free upgrade for Windows Vista because everything is changed.

Despite of this you can buy a low cost upgrade edition of Windows 7 to update from Vista to Windows 7. For example, retail cost of Vista home premium is $300 while the cost of upgrade edition from Windows XP is about $150.



> but i'd love to have a demo version atleast so that v can try an os or application instead of buggy betas and rc's.



Windows Vista lets u evaluate the OS for 30 days which u can extent to 4 months legally without activating.



> the ability to be able to read\write mac formatted drives, ipods and hard drives.[



Is HFS+ an Open Standard which anyone can support freely for read & write? If it is then sure. Point taken & noted . It is supported in Windows via MacDrive already but yeah, native inbuilt support is desired.

AFAIK I know, you can use an iPod freely in both Windows & Mac USING iTunes.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

no ... a windows based ipod cant be connected to mac and vice versa ... doin so results in data loss ... havnet tried it but read it on more than 1 more occasion


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

kumarmohit said:
			
		

> The XBOX is purchased not licensed. I shall do whatever I want with my Xbox unit. and MS should not stop support (not warranty) for all those components which I did not touch


*They will not stop support for hardware parts like if your CPU is overheating*. However if this is due to Modchip or say an un-official firmware or due to the fact that u tried installing Linux on XBOX 360 which broke it, then Microsoft should not be held accountable.



> change in Microsoft & Windows Vista? => MS's stupid FUDS bt Linux. Tell them that first and lets see if they listen to an MVP! I sympathise with the MVP whome they treated harshly!


This thread is not about this. If you have an idea or advice to MS for making Windows & other MS product better, then plz provide. Else, your reply is not required in this thread.



> no ... a windows based ipod cant be connected to mac and vice versa ... doin so results in data loss ... havnet tried it but read it on more than 1 more occasion


Then I guess for iPod it is the responsibility of Apple to support this feature, not Microsoft.

*For Normal HFS+ Partitions & drives, Windows should provide native support for read & write. *Point has been noted


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

Another Fanboy thread trying to defend the poduct that he would kill himself for!  And also trying to change the perception that other OS users have about windows!  What a turn off!!

Nothing more to say!


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

trying to defend ... ur ego hurts after u got pwned by us doesnt it


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## dd_wingrider (Sep 7, 2007)

first pricing of their products should be cut down, and secondly they should now come up with some thing unique n innovative products, which not only geeks can use but common people can also go along with. want to write more but it will look too much philosophic


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> trying to defend ... ur ego hurts after u got pwned by us doesnt it


 
I don't want to crap this thread, but if you think I got ego or that you 'pwned' someone, because you couldn't hold your point and ran off from that thread because you got 'pwned' by everyone else and opened up a new thread to defend your croocked theories, then KMA!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Another Fanboy thread trying to defend the poduct that he would kill himself for!  And also trying to change the perception that other OS users have about windows!  What a turn off!!



If you hate Microsoft & Windows, & there marketing strategy then why not tell here what u hate so that it can be rectified. 

Plz provide advice & suggestion on why U don't like Windows & how would u like to change this situation to make Windows better.

Keep the fanboyism to nil plz. Fellow members M I wrong when I say this?


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

Open up the Source Code of Windows and let people themselves make Windows better!

Microsofts development team has lost it's way in creativity, if that team can't do it, alteast let MS pay other developers by opening up the source. Atleast then, windows will be what people want and not what MS wants!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

dd_wingrider said:
			
		

> first pricing of their products should be cut down


Even I agree, Point has been noted. 


> and secondly they should now come up with some thing unique n innovative products, which not only geeks can use but common people can also go along with.


Sure, do u have some ideas for that. Why don't u give feedback in Microsoft newsgroup & technet user group about your ideas on how Windows can be made further easy. Like if you have a better way of how software installation should go plz tell us all here.



> want to write more but it will look too much philosophic


If you can take out time, then plz write. Thanx for your comment.

Mods....I request you to delete all flamish & unnecessary posts such as the one from this thread, as that only brings flame war.



> Open up the Source Code of Windows and let people themselves make Windows better!



Microsoft is running a business. They cannot give away the R&D they did on Windows just like that. If someone wants to make Windows better he can use many freely available tools from MS, or 3rd party tools. If you want to change something in Windows, give feedback to MS, MS will do it for u so that u don't have to learn programming & do it yourself. Remembar not everyone is a geek.

Even right now, using 3rd party tools, registry tweaks, resource hacking you can mould Windows to look or work anyway u want. I hope you have seen how Vishal moded Windows XP compleately to make it look & work just like Vista. The possibility is already there provided in a safe manner by Microsoft itself in the form of registry etc. Plz have a look at that too before saying that Windows can't be made to look & work like the way a user wants. It can do all that without opening the source code.


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## nish_higher (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Keep the fanboyism to nil plz. Fellow members M I wrong when I say this?


 no.for i actually run have both pc and mac and used SUSE\fedora\etc..... too.nothing is perfect in any case.and this is about Microsoft-so better stick to it and write abt changes u want instead of preaching other companies

And i need the ability to customize every part of start menu the way i want to.a bit-torrent client,all codecs and included adobe reader,a better antivirus than live one care,not too big installations,fast startups and installations and above all gr8 value for money.


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## drgrudge (Sep 7, 2007)

I really can't understand why gx_saurav created this thread in 'Fight Club'. 

Coming to the topic - 
I want MS to continue giving names to their Windows like motor companies give names to bikes and scooters. Vista was a good start and I want them to continue in the same fashion. 

This Windows 7 seems like coping Apple. I don't want to see Windows OS XI (or worst Windows OS X!).


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Microsofts development team has lost it's way in creativity, if that team can't do it, alteast let MS pay other developers by opening up the source.


 it would be nice if u could tell on the lack of creativity and what cant they do


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> it would be nice if u could tell on the lack of creativity and what cant they do


 
Satic Desktops and static interfaces!, pathetic restrictions of allowed no. of activation limits and single system policy, propostorous pricing, overhyping of actual potential and what not? 

BTW, read the line before what you quoted and answer that for me please!



			
				drgrudge said:
			
		

> I really can't understand why gx_saurav created this thread in 'Fight Club'.


 
Because he wants to fight and prove that Windows is better than OSS which he has unfortunately failed to do in the last 2 threads which OSS supported users started!  Got booted from there, so new thread in Fight Club


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

the 1 about making windows open source ... y should they its their proprietary code its their wish .... besides i asked u u said make it open source and then people can make it better ... tell us what betterments are u gonna bring abt even if hypothetically it were to be open source


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> the 1 about making windows open source ... y should they its their proprietary code its their wish ....


 
That's why it is starting to $uck! Becuase, they just can't push their code to match the creativity and stability with open source codes have! They don't need to worry that Coders are going to steal their code and make another software call Bindows! They have enough laws to take care of that, and besides why would a coder even want to steal when there are so many other open source codes?

The point is, if they open up the source, Windows won't be the creation of bunch of Microsoft coders, it will be an OS that people from all parts of the world would have contributed to making it better and the way they would like it to be rather than the way MS wants it to be! In short, it will be something that people like because there will be more people involved in the source code who will have more variety and appeal to more users!

If you want an example, go compare the Beryl interface to Aero!

What you guys don't realize is that more than half of the windows users use windows because they are forced to, not because they like to use it!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> And i need the ability to customize every part of start menu the way i want to


Point taken. Plz tell here what would u like to customise in start menu. There are various 3rd party tools already available to change the look & feel of start menu but native support in Windows is appreciated. 



> a bit-torrent client


Although I do agree to this but u do know that bit torrent is the biggest way to pirate things. Microsoft might come into trouble by supporting this by default. If you want to download torrents then u need internet connection, if u have internet connection then there are already various torrent clients available for free such as BitComet or uTorrent.

My personla take, Buy uTorrent & bundle in Windows 


> all codecs and included adobe reader,


Microsoft tried this but they were sued. Due to licensing restriction imposed by other companies, Microsoft cannot bundle this in Windows. Adobe sued MS for giving native PDF support in Vista saying that if MS does this then no one will download & use Adobe reader. i hope u understand the problem here which MS faces.

Again, Codecs are not made by Microsoft. If you play a file in Windows Media player for which a codec is not installed then WMP11 automatically tells u that u need a codec & forwards u to the appropriate webpage to download it.



> a better antivirus than live one care


I agree 



> not too big installations


Umm...I agree but U do know that more features = big installation.



> fast startups and installations


This you will witness with Vista SP1 currently in beta which trust me, is fast to boot.



> gr8 value for money.


Plz elaborate.

HiH, plz edit your post. That is not relevent here, jeep the fanboyism to nil. Windows cannot be made Open Source. Period. If you want a feature, give feedback here & I will gladly forward it to MS.


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

hey HiH please i certainly would love to hear what plans do u have for windows if it were made Open source


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

> pathetic restrictions of allowed no. of activation limits



Windows Vista can be activated on a single computer unlimited times. If you install it on a new computer then you can always "move" your license to the new computer. 



> single system policy,



Plz elaborate what u mean by this.



> propostorous pricing,



I agree, point has been already noted 



> overhyping of actual potential



You should see a Macworld keynote of Steve jobs first 



> What you guys don't realize is that more than half of the windows users use windows because they are forced to, not because they like to use it!



3rd time, plz keep the fanboyism & trolling to nil


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> hey HiH please i certainly would love to hear what plans do u have for windows if it were made Open source


 
I would Re-compile it to work on Cell Broadband Engine! 

Then I'll make sure it does 'Ray-tracing' rather than inferior DirectX.

Then I'll cut out all the MS propietry $hit that causes compatibility issues with other hardware/softwares and make it read any partition that man is aware of!

Make the crappy interface look better than Beryl on Linux!

The point is, if you open up the code, you have to agree that it's only going to get better than go worse! I might not be creative as much as another person, but once it's open, lot more creative ideas will add and then the whole OS war will end and everyone will feel light hearted and will have to make their own choices rather being forced upon choices!

The only reason that Linux is strong as it's today is because its OSS and people from almost all parts of the world contributed in its growth. Let me tell you that Linux would have been nothing more than cow dung if it weren't open source because no $hit could have been done by a bunch of programmers. Not saying anything about linux but just trying to show how Opening the source can help


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## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

^^ the product might go better but what about the company ...  besides windows isnt the only closed source os and it gives more option than other closed source OSs ....


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## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ^^ the product might go better but what about the company ...  besides windows isnt the only closed source os and it gives more option than other closed source OSs ....


 
Dude, like I told before, MS dont' need to worry that someone is going to misuse the code for profit because there are enough laws that can protect it, and besides, they can pay these OSS developers who bring in useful changes than pay everyone for trying to make a useful change, and by doing so, MS can certainly bring down production costs and inturn the end-user price, because you dont' have to pay an OSS developer as much as you pay your dedicated developer!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> I would Re-compile it to work on Cell Broadband Engine!


If there is enough demand for this feature then sure MS will support it. Plz provide feedback to MS. Unless u tell them what u want, how will they add it.



> Then I'll make sure it does 'Ray-tracing' rather than inferior DirectX.


I hope u know how CPU/GPU intensive Raytracing is & how much time it takes to render one frame in Mental ray.



> Then I'll cut out all the MS propietry $hit that causes compatibility issues with other hardware/softwares


You mean removal of Windows components? This feature is already given in Vista. You can also achieve this using vLite. I do agree that it should give the user the choice to add or remove the components during the installation.



> make it read any partition that man is aware of!


You mean File System? Point has already been noted. 



> Make the crappy interface look better than Beryl on Linux!


You can yourself the Aero SDK for free along with .net 2005 & make mods to Aero as u like, then release it for all of us. The feature & possibility is already there, u just have to look. You can either make it yourself & release it or give feedback to MS for doing this. 



> The point is, if you open up the code, you have to agree that it's only going to get better than go worse! I might not be creative as much as another person, but it's open, then the whole OS war will end and everyone will feel light hearted and will have to make their own choices rather being forced upon choices!


Plz keep the trolling to nil. You can modify Windows the way u want even right now using many Microsoft or non-Microsoft tools.



> MS dont' need to worry that someone is going to misuse the code for profit because there are enough laws that can protect it,



I have something to say about this but won't say in this thread.

Fellow members, plz continue your suggestion.


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## goobimama (Sep 7, 2007)

My requests:

1) Zero configuration networking. I just want to do some networking here and not worry about permissions and IPs. (Not be fanboyistic, but I do like Bonjour technology)

2) Better Security. Common. The UAC is a joke. I still get viruses in here, WITH an antivirus installed.

3) More responsiveness of menus and dialogs. Even on a Core 2 Duo, the interface seems a bit sluggish.

4) Stop advertising something as childish as Flip3D as a prime reason for someone to spend $400 on an OS...

That seems about right.


----------



## Help~Is~Here (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> If there is enough demand for this feature then sure MS will support it. Plz provide feedback to MS. Unless u tell them what u want, how will they add it.


 
That's the problem. What is MS doing? Will someone need to go knock their door and tell them what people need. A multimillion dollar company is expected to do it's recearch of what people want and not wait for someone to ask them to implement, one of the reasons for the abysmal performance of vista




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I hope u know how CPU/GPU intensive Raytracing is & how much time it takes to render one frame in Mental ray.


 
Not at all intensive on Cell Broadband Engine if you were listenting and understanding what I was saying.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Plz keep the trolling to nil. You can modify Windows the way u want even right now using many Microsoft or non-Microsoft tools.


 
Yeah like the guy who was sued for somethin he did with one of the MS softwares! His statement was that he used microsoft provided tools to make the mods but yet he was sued, this is the sad nature of MS and why no coder bother to make any change to the sofware made by mentally retarted people who sue others just for the fun of it because they know the poor coder doesn't have enough money to afford a dragging legal battle!!


Anyways, I'm out of this thread, no point because Windows will be the same load of **** that it has been since the dawn of computers because MS will never listen to what the people want no matter how many suggestion made and like this thread is going to make any difference to windows!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> 1) Zero configuration networking. I just want to do some networking here and not worry about permissions and IPs.



Point taken. It should be like "Plug the cable & connect". Well....connecting using LAN is already possible using this method.

However I hope u know that internet connection sharing does needs providing proper IP address whether it is Windows, Linux or Mac.



> 2) Better Security. Common. The UAC is a joke. I still get viruses in here, WITH an antivirus installed.



Bugs will always be there, but still point taken. Remember, *Microsoft is not allowed to make the kernel isolated & protected from intrusion after Symantec & Mcafee sued Microsoft.*



> 3) More responsiveness of menus and dialogs. Even on a Core 2 Duo, the interface seems a bit sluggish.



Point taken. . I m sure Vista SP1 & its code audit will sure enlighten u.



> 4) Stop advertising something as childish as Flip3D as a prime reason for someone to spend $400 on an OS...



He he....now now goobi, I don't wanna talk about how Apple Marketed iPhone here


----------



## vish786 (Sep 7, 2007)

*** sorry to pop in. ***

 i'm having a gut feeling, that someone is playin d fool with everyone.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Help~Is~Here said:
			
		

> Will someone need to go knock their door and tell them what people need.



Is Cell CPU available out there for purchase by general public? Microsoft released Vista X64 for 64-bit CPU, how much is the demand for this?



> Not at all intensive on Cell Broadband Engine if you were listenting and understanding what I was saying.



Read above, Is Cell CPU available out there for purchase by general public? If it is available & there is demand MS will sure port it.



> he used microsoft provided tools to make the mods but yet he was sued,



This not something to do with this post. Would u mind posting the to the point. Plz stop trolling



> this is the sad nature of MS and why no coder bother to make any change to the sofware made by mentally retarted people who sue others just for the fun of it because they know the poor coder doesn't have enough money to afford a dragging legal battle!!


5th warning, thread reported.


----------



## shantanu (Sep 7, 2007)

help~is ~here : in the whole thread i find you trolling and making abusive comments , this is a warning.. just remain on topic and dont use abusive words.. if you feel someone else is abusing you or the things you support , just report it.. and action will be taken, but you are self explaining things... (in the statement below you are offending over 70k people.. ?)



> this is the sad nature of MS and why no coder bother to make any change to the sofware made by mentally retarted people who sue others just for the fun of it because they know the poor coder doesn't have enough money to afford a dragging legal battle


and many such comments in forum... 
try not to...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanx for cleaning the thread Shantanu.

Fellow members, plz provide more feedback & ideas. Unless you tell them, MS isn't going to know what people want.


----------



## mediator (Sep 7, 2007)

gx said:
			
		

> Bugs will always be there, but still point taken. Remember, Microsoft is not allowed to make the kernel isolated & protected from intrusion after Symantec & Mcafee sued Microsoft.


 Kindly tell what all MS is allowed to do, so that people can give their suggestions conveniently and not about what it can't do like as in MS * EULA! You surely don't expect people to have a full fledged knowledge abt MS history, its patents and what all it can't do and afterwards say "No it can't do that" when people have given their view point!!

Please give us a list of what all MS can do under its constraints so that the frequency of your statement "No it can't do that" reduces dramatically!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Kindly tell what all MS is allowed to do, so that people can give their suggestions conveniently



Microsoft cannot make a locked & isolated kernel protected from any kind of intrusion due to a lawsuit disallowing them from doing this.



> Please give us a list of what all MS can do under its constraints so that the frequency of your statement "No it can't do that" reduces dramatically!!



I have updated post 1


----------



## a_k_s_h_a_y (Sep 7, 2007)

after the mac vs win has calmed down for some time..

we now have

Episode 5 : The return of linboys

macboys are tired and are reinforcing....massive attacks to be expected from their side.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

aks_win said:
			
		

> after the mac vs win has calmed down for some time..
> 
> we now have
> 
> ...


I hope trolling stays nil in this thread. Everyone blames MS for this & that....well, if u know whats wrong with them then why not tell to fix it.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

The price structure of Microsoft products in not in accordance of Indian standard.Not many people can afford to spend around 10k for Vista including me.Although I wouldn't mind paying 2.5k as you stated in your first post.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> The price structure of Microsoft products in not in accordance of Indian standard.Not many people can afford to spend around 10k for Vista including me.Although I wouldn't mind paying 2.5k as you stated in your first post.



Yup, a good option is to buy Windows digitally, why not sale Windows Vista Home Online in India for Rs 2,000 only without the package, manual etc & just one ISO. Pay Rs 2,000 online via a credit card & download the ISO via Microsoft file transfer manager.

There are 2 problems with this though. Lack of online purchase interest & slow broadband connection. But that can be removed, its not like u download WIndows ISO everyday.


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

Yep simple straight Vista at lowest prices without any bells and whistles.

Maybe free to engineering students.hehe.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Yep simple straight Vista at lowest prices without any bells and whistles.



Now this might not be possible due to the sorry stage of broadband & online purchse in India but worth a try.



> Maybe free to engineering students.hehe.



Check out Microsoft's education license


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Check out Microsoft's education license


Where?Please provide link.


----------



## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

i wud accept that a free copy to enggs ... only these mvps get fukat ka maal


----------



## shantanu (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i wud accept that a free copy to enggs ... only these mvps get fukat ka maal


 
who told you its fukat ka maal.. indeed its not 

its hard copy of our hard work


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

Engineering students should be given free copies or atleast some special rebate lets say 80%-90% off.Otherwise they will pirate cos they also need beer and sutta to live.


----------



## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

abey u dont need beer and sutta to live  ... dude cut down ur cigs and beer u can afford any software's licensed copy ... we once calculated a frenz expense on drinks and cigs


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

If you are student then you can sure avail Microsoft Educational License

•Are you eligible for academic discounts?
•How to buy guide for education
•Work at Home rights and Student Option

For this, when Microsoft tried to collaborate with schools & colleges in India, they were opposed by Linux users on internet, & in real life too. So, Microsoft does provides the options, its just that people don't know or don't want to know while they keep on blaming MS. 

What ever college u r in, plz contact the faculty for information or Microsoft India


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> abey u dont need beer and sutta to live  ... dude cut down ur cigs and beer u can afford any software's licensed copy ... we once calculated a frenz expense on drinks and cigs



A beer can>>>>>>>>>original vista.So forget it.I can do without sutta though.

My point was to provide free copies to engineering student.Don't tell me it is not feasible because it actually is feasible.


----------



## iMav (Sep 7, 2007)

no its not feasible ... damn calculate for urself how many students do engg how many engg colleges are there ...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 7, 2007)

Providing free copies isn't feasible. However providing cheap copies which only activate & run on one computer is indeed feasible.

Engg. Student should be able to get this from the college itself, like the students in USA get it from there colleges which are in collaboration with MS.

For this, we need collaboration between MS & colleges like IIT, VJTI etc if not there already. If the students want to use Windows, he should be able to get it from his college. Now is it wrong for MS to come & collaborate with colleges if they can do this.?


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 7, 2007)

@iMav umm I am calculating.........

Arre yar come on they are future coders and developers.And how many engineering students you know who actually use original windows?I know only 2.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Providing free copies isn't feasible. However providing cheap copies which only activate & run on one computer is indeed feasible.
> 
> Engg. Student should be able to get this from the college itself, like the students in USA get it from there colleges which are in collaboration with MS.
> 
> For this, we need collaboration between MS & colleges like IIT, VJTI etc if not there already. If the students want to use Windows, he should be able to get it from his college. Now is it wrong for MS to come & collaborate with colleges if they can do this.?


This is what I am saying.I think my college is not in collaboration with M$(but the M$ people do came to our college to showcase Vista and Offive 2007 and actually handed over one or two free copies).So what can I do about it as a student?I am sure our college director will do anything we request him to do.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Arre yar come on they are future coders and developers.



Well, its not like they are sure going to code for MS only in the future, will they? If MS says " you can use all our products provided u must work at MS for 2 years", I guess some people will be still unsatisfied.

See, i already mentioned that Windows cannot be given for free like this. Would u rather prefer to have a Windows Vista edition which stops working after 5 years?

If piracy works for u, well...then pirate Windows. You will get to know how much loss piracy results in once you work in a software company.



> So what can I do about it as a student?I am sure our college director will do anything we request him to do.



You can talk to your director or dean or whoever is the concerned faculty about this thing. Since they already came to your college means they do have some contact with MS for sure. You can also write some application with sign of many students to take part in such collaboration.

See, unless u want to make a change, nothing will change. This is why i m urging more & more members to submit there ideas, you don't like the current MS, fine, then tell is how can u change them?


----------



## iMav (Sep 8, 2007)

as i said only these mvps get fukat


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Microsoft cannot make a locked & isolated kernel protected from any kind of intrusion due to a lawsuit disallowing them from doing this.
> 
> 
> 
> I have updated post 1


 How bt including MS Office with MS windows and make the OS atleast a little workable out of box and unlimiting the no. of activations? My genuine/original XP CD told me to renew the CD KEy after 20+ installs *on the same hardware* forget bt different hardware then.

Do u need to update ur first post again or tell MS abt some viewpoints/suggestions now finally?

Also I wud luv if networking/ssh/ftp/services start on Windows before the GUI. If they can bundle firefox, gimp, OOO etc in their CDs then it wud be awesome!! Things wud greatly improve if they give some customizing option in the OS install menu itself to remove IE, disk defragement crap etc and give options to install firefox etc instead!

They shud make the OS atleast a little workable out of box instead of expecting the poor/noobie user to install everything from winzip,antivirus,drivers to MS office! Also supporting linux partitons wud be great if it can atleast read linux partitions by default out of box. Please tell MS to make the OS atleast a little workable somehow out of box and u'd be the forum hero!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> How bt including MS Office with MS windows and make the OS atleast a little workable out of box and unlimiting the no. of activations?



Microsoft provides a discount if you buy Windows & Office both while buying an OEM computer from a partner such as Dell or HP.

Office is another product Microsoft makes so they cannot give it for free in Windows. However I do agree that *Microsoft should include viewer software for Word, Excel & other Microsoft's own software such as they provide for XPS files.*



> My genuine/original XP CD told me to renew the CD KEy after 20+ installs *on the same hardware* forget bt different hardware then.



In case of Windows XP, you can simply call the toll free number of Microsoft support & tell them the situation to activate your key again. Plz think & take some action yourself before blaming MS.

In case of Windows Vista, you can activate as many times as u want as long as both the motherboard & hard disk are same.



> Do u need to update ur first post again or tell MS abt some viewpoints/suggestions now finally?



I have already posted 3 feedbacks to Microsoft 


> Also I wud luv if networking/ssh/ftp/services start on Windows before the GUI.



 I m blank about what u mean, ok...should be included. But how will u load something without loading the kernel first.



> If they can bundle firefox, gimp, OOO etc in their CDs then it wud be awesome!!



I have already mentioned that MS cannot bundle 3rd party softwares with Windows. It is not there responsibility. Does Apple bundles Firefox with Mac?



> Things wud greatly improve drastically if they give some customizing option in the OS install menu to remove IE, disk defragement etc



This feedback is already noted. In the mean time you can use vLite to remove any component u want from Windows Vista installation.



> and give options to install firefox etc!



Again, 3rd party component. If you want it, you can easily download it.



> They shud make the OS atleast a little workable out of box instead of expecting the poor/noobie user to install everything from winzip,antivirus,drivers to MS office!



Zip support is already there in Windows XP & Vista.

Obviously MS cannot bundle an antivirus in Windows even if it is Windows Live onecare due to lawsuits.

The hardware industry changes everyday. Windows Vista includes 19000 drivers in it by default another 21000 are available on Windows update which Windows automatically checks if it lacks a driver. MS also provides new drivers in every service pack. 

For example, my machine which is 4 years old works out of the box without any drivers for my hardware in Windows Vista. After installing Windows, I install the new drivers provided by Intel, nVidia & creative manually



> Also supporting linux partitons wud be great if it can atleast read linux partitions by default out of box.



Already noted before 



> Please tell MS to make the OS atleast a little workable somehow out of box and u'd be the forum hero!!



Lolz...I m trying my best.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

i've seen GX "noting" down points like a true MS employee  now it'd be really helpful if you pass this on the MS asap, GX.

1) i'd like to see read-only support for EXT2, EXT3 FS. 

2) i'd also like to **** the **** out of WGA! that has been more of a headache for genuine users than for ppl using pirated (i know ms calls it an educational tool...but still) the no. of times i've validated is not countable!!! they know whatever check they devise it's gonna get cracked. then why do it in first place and make the lives of genuine windows users miserable??

3) i'd like MS to discontinue some jokes: the starter and the student editions.

4) they must provide ISOs for OS specific updates (and keep a tab on the size) monthly OR allow AUTOPATCHER to be revived again.


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeah. Its really difficult for genuine users. You have to go through Activation. The pirates don't go through that. You have to activate every time you reinstall. You but an original DVD; you have to go through an ad about how piracy is stealing.The pirates dont...you get the point.

What I don't understand is, why do all this when the pirates get away with it anyway? What's the point? I think they should leave it to the users conscience and be done with it.

One more thing:
Search.

I find the Windows search to be bit too attention grabbing. I've just about installed everything in Vista and wanted to find a file. Search for it and it says the location is not indexed. WTF! Did I NOT want it to be indexed? Make it work like it should. 

I would also like the OS to stop bothering me now and then. You know, for something that's supposed to be running my machine, its taking a mighty big interest in what I'm doing out here. "Your antivirus is not installed". "You have low disk space" "please stick this up your a$$". At least something to turn it off.



> However I hope u know that internet connection sharing does needs providing proper IP address whether it is Windows, Linux or Mac.


I just click on the "Share" button in my sharing preference pane. It does that automatically. 

I'm talking about Bonjour. Where I don't have to do anything and Videochat, share printers, bookmarks, music, and god knows what else.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> 1) i'd like to see read-only support for EXT2, EXT3 FS.



Noted and feedback given.



> 2) i'd also like to **** the **** out of WGA



Ok, if you hate WGA then plz come up with a solution for MS to curb piracy



> 3) i'd like MS to discontinue some jokes: the starter and the student editions.



Hmm....they are low cost "specific task" versions. They shouldn't be discontinued just that some restriction like the screen resolution should be removed.

There is no student edition, u get home premium or XP Pro from your college if college is in collaboration with MS. Students buy it at a lower price then retail.



> they must provide ISOs for OS specific updates (and keep a tab on the size) monthly OR allow AUTOPATCHER to be revived again.



AutoPatcher cannot be revived again, but point noted for MS to provide monthly update ISO. In the mean time, use the methods I mentioned in the  "Autopatcher is dead" thread.



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> Yeah. Its really difficult for genuine users. You have to go through Activation.



If you don't like it, like I said, plz comeup with a solution MS can use to prevent piracy. 



> I think they should leave it to the users conscience and be done with it.



Then no one will buy Windows....lolz 



> I've just about installed everything in Vista and wanted to find a file. Search for it and it says the location is not indexed. WTF! Did I NOT want it to be indexed? Make it work like it should.



Windows needs to index files to search faster. If the HD is not indexed, it will still search for file but slow. It is simply telling u that files are not indexed so search is slow. Windows is continuing to index files in background



> for something that's supposed to be running my machine, its taking a mighty big interest in what I'm doing out here.



It is simply notifying you about whats wrong with Windows. If you don't want to be notified, you can easily disable them via Windows itself.

Anyway, good night all



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> I just click on the "Share" button in my sharing preference pane. It does that automatically.



Feedback noted 



> I'm talking about Bonjour. Where I don't have to do anything and Videochat, share printers, bookmarks, music, and god knows what else.



i told u about Network & resource center in Vista yesterday, did u forget the option of these there?


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> In case of Windows XP, you can simply call the toll free number of Microsoft support & tell them the situation to activate your key again. Plz think & take some action yourself before blaming MS.


 U r forgetting y u created the thread! And I want MS to stop this kinda pathetic monopoly! Why shud I even bother to call the toll free no? Its much better to stop annoying the gullible users and grant them nirvana of activating it as many times as he wants atleast on the same hardware, his PC! So, don't repeat.



> In case of Windows Vista, you can activate as many times as u want as long as both the motherboard & hard disk are same.


 And how many times on different hardware?



> I m blank about what u mean, ok...should be included. But how will u load something without loading the kernel first.


 Abt the how part, thats for MS to program. But I want my machine to be 'ssh'ed and restarted from remote host wheneva I like. So I want ssh,ftp services to start before the GUI. Wats so hard to understand that or u never read about Operating Systems in general? I hope u understand atleast that the standard operating systems have kernel loading first and then everything else i.e apps and GUI and not vice versa! Loading network configuration after GUI is terrible!!



> I have already mentioned that MS cannot bundle 3rd party softwares with Windows. It is not there responsibility. Does Apple bundles Firefox with Mac?


 R u an apple salesman or MS bitdefender? Please learn what u posted! This has nuthing to do with Apple. Besides why cant MS bundle firefox or OOO etc? Just coz they dint make it? Do they ever care bt the gullible users? or atleast they cud just include some software that points to so many FOSS apps so that they can download the needed software like firefox etc automatically on one click!



> This feedback is already noted. In the mean time you can use vLite to remove any component u want from Windows Vista installation.


 I wud prefer MS to change that crap!




> Again, 3rd party component. If you want it, you can easily download it.


 Ofcors I can, why even create such a thread and then speak u can do that by urself? I want MS to increase my ease of use and change it! Kindly tell them that!!



> The hardware industry changes everyday. Windows Vista includes 19000 drivers in it by default another 21000 are available on Windows update which Windows automatically checks if it lacks a driver. MS also provides new drivers in every service pack.


 But its a pity that I still have to install drivers separtely for my 'outdated' NVIDIA 5200 FX card! 



> For example, my machine which is 4 years old works out of the box without any drivers for my hardware in Windows Vista. After installing Windows, I install the new drivers provided by Intel, nVidia & creative manually


 And can u even play games and listen/entertain lavishly on those "out of box" drivers? Can u even Njoy 'AERO' completely on the windows provided drivers?
Also I want MS to support autopatcher and WMP to play media ISO files on one click! Note it down!





> These are the things MS cannot do
> 
> 1) They cannot lock the kernel from 3rd party intrusion such as virus or security software due to a Lawsuit of Symantec & Mcafee which prevents MS from doing this.
> 
> ...





> Obviously MS cannot bundle an antivirus in Windows even if it is Windows Live onecare due to lawsuits.


 I asked u to tell us what MS can do and not to act and speak as in MS * EULA which can terrify an innocent soul! But heck u dint even do that. Are u here to help? 

Also tell them to modify the EULA and elaborate in it in a humane manner wat the people can do, so that atleast the MVPs aren't treated like roadside life forms anymore!!



			
				gx said:
			
		

> IRD said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Careful, I hope atleast u don't get ur MVP status snatched away!


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Noted and feedback given.


 thank you for that 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ok, if you hate WGA then plz come up with a solution for MS to curb piracy


 i've already said nothing's gonna work so there is NO solution to it other than educating ppl. so they shud remove the bullsh!t called WGA which will make the lives of we genuine users easy. u think WGA is helping curb piracy...... hoooooooooooooooooohhhoooooooooooo.... i jus fell from my chair!!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Hmm....they are low cost "specific task" versions. They shouldn't be discontinued just that some restriction like the screen resolution should be removed.


 i hope you know the other limitations too.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> There is no student edition, u get home premium or XP Pro from your college if college is in collaboration with MS. Students buy it at a lower price then retail.


 aren't we talking about MS as a whole as not only about windows?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> AutoPatcher cannot be revived again, but point noted for MS to provide monthly update ISO. In the mean time, use the methods I mentioned in the  "Autopatcher is dead" thread.


 are you the deciding authority for autopatcher?  what method did u post? download the updates manually one by one then install one by one or to download the 2.8GB update ISO? 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Then no one will buy Windows....lolz


 you think windows is selling due to that??!!!??!    



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> It is simply notifying you about whats wrong with Windows. If you don't want to be notified, you can easily disable them via Windows itself.


 you can disable the balloon tips widout using registry mods or tweakui? how???!!!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Feedback noted


 much appreciated!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Its much better to stop annoying the gullible users and grant them nirvana of activating it as many times as he wants atleast on the same hardware, his PC



Have u tried WIndows Vista.? You can activate as many times as u want on Vista as long as it is the same hardware.



> And how many times on different hardware?



As long as u don't change both the motherboard & hard disk, you can activate Vista unlimited times. If you buy a new motherborad & Hard disk both, that that qualifies as a new computer in which u will need to "move" your license to the new computer. For this you will need to call MS support. This was already mentioned in this thread before, plz read before posting.


> why cant MS bundle firefox or OOO etc? Just coz they dint make it?



You answered yourself. OEM PCs bundle these kind of 3rd party apps which people now term as crap ware.


> Do they ever care bt the gullible users? or atleast they cud just inc ude some software that points to so many FOSS apps so that they can download the needed software like firefox etc automatically on one click!



FOSS doesn't belong to Microsoft. Firefox is available on Windows Market place whose link is given when Windows boots for the first time.



> I want MS to increase my ease of use and change it! Kindly tell them that!!



Microsoft can do this only with there own product. If you need a 3rd party product, plz download. Windows isn't Linux.



> But its a pity that I still have to install drivers separtely for my 'outdated' NVIDIA 5200 FX card!



 Are you sure? I don't need to install any drivers when I install it on my computer with a FX 5900XT or Friends AGP XFX 5200 non Ultra. How is this in your case only?



> And can u even play games and listen/entertain lavishly on those "out of box" drivers? Can u even Njoy 'AERO' completely on the windows provided drivers?



Yeah, I don't know about your computer but in my case I can. 


> I want MS to support autopatcher



Sorry, can't be done.



> WMP to play media ISO files on one click!



Point noted


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> FOSS doesn't belong to Microsoft. Firefox is available on Windows Market place whose link is given when Windows boots for the first time.


FOSS doesn't belong to anybody, it belongs to everybody!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> what method did u post?



This one 



> you can disable the balloon tips widout using registry mods or tweakui?



Disable security center baloon tips in XP. There is an option. Or Disable the security center service.



			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> FOSS doesn't belong to anybody, it belongs to everybody!



But the products are not made by MS. If the computer or data of a consumer malfunctions due to a FOSS product bundled with Windows DVD then MS will be bombarded with support calls for a software they did not even make. 

I hope u don't say that FOSS products such as Firefox or OOO don't crash.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> This one


 thanks for the link 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Disable security center baloon tips in XP. There is an option. Or Disable the security center service.


 and how will that remove the "low disk space" warning etc.???




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> But the products are not made by MS. If the computer or data of a consumer malfunctions due to a FOSS product bundled with Windows DVD then MS will be bombarded with support calls for a software they did not even make.
> 
> I hope u don't say that FOSS products such as Firefox or OOO don't crash.


 can't they include it in the EULA? since FF or anything is not made by MS who'd be so stupid to ask MS for support? its about providing apps not giving support!

that point will hold tru for other software surely not FF or OOO... come on mediator, MS out there to do business, who'll use IE or MSOffice then???


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> And how will that remove the "low disk space" warning etc.???



The option is given in Vista 



> can't they include it in the EULA? since FF or anything is not made by MS who'd be so stupid to ask MS for support? its about providing apps not giving support!



I hope u know that hardly anyone reads the EULA . I m a geek & I know where to go for support for Firefox crash, does granny knows? She will call the number written on the manual for Support.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> The option is given in Vista


thanks for pointing it out  plz temme how to do that.




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I hope u know that hardly anyone reads the EULA . I m a geek & I know where to go for support for Firefox crash, does granny knows?


why is the EULA for then? to give usernames and password of p0rn sites??!!


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

Before this thing goes any further, I would like to rant about piracy controls. 

What use are they? Are they effective? The only way to force users to buy genuine software is to put people behind bars. That's the only way and I think it works quite well in the States. But using serial keys and complex activation processes coupled with WGA is NOT going to solve piracy. Crackers are always going to find a way.

I should make it clear that educating users is different from nagging them and restricting use. Positive action is always better than punishment. That's the only way.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> why is the EULA for then? to give usernames and password of p0rn sites??!!


I wish


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

> to give usernames and password of p0rn sites??!!



Whaaat! I should give more attention to EULAs then!


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> As long as u don't change both the motherboard & hard disk, you can activate Vista unlimited times. If you buy a new motherborad & Hard disk both, that that qualifies as a new computer in which u will need to "move" your license to the new computer. For this you will need to call MS support. This was already mentioned in this thread before, plz read before posting.


 I dint ask to move my license. Please dont deviate! How many times can u activate on VISTA?? *Please specify with some number*!




> You answered yourself. OEM PCs bundle these kind of 3rd party apps which people now term as crap ware.


 Again, this thread is about MS and wat "MS" can do and I want MS to bundle these apps or some software from which I can just click and firefox gets installed or may be some command line utilty which can ease my task! Tell em to reduce their monopoly and that end-users are interested in options and not compulsions from a CD!!



> FOSS doesn't belong to Microsoft. Firefox is available on Windows Market place whose link is given when Windows boots for the first time.


 Some screenshot wud be appreciated!



> Microsoft can do this only with there own product. If you need a 3rd party product, plz download. Windows isn't Linux.


 Calm down, when did I say anything bt Linux now? Users want them to increase end-user's ease of use instead of giving priority to their monopoly.




> Are you sure? I don't need to install any drivers when I install it on my computer with a FX 5900XT or Friends AGP XFX 5200 non Ultra. How is this in your case only?


 100%. Abt cases, likewise I can ask how come an 'experienced' computer user  like u still find Linux uneasy to use when noobies and non-tech guys in here itself find it easy to use and terrific? And that how come ur PC only worked flawless when the rest of the world out there is complaining bt driver and apps incompatibilty on VISTA and hence reverting back to XP?
So please tell MS to give better driver support 'out of box'!!



> Yeah, I don't know about your computer but in my case I can.


 As expected ur PC is god-sent!



> I hope u know that hardly anyone reads the EULA . I m a geek & I know where to go for support for Firefox crash, does granny knows? She will call the number written on the manual for Support.


 But ur granny shud know! Make her read the MS * EULA! I bet she'll Njoy that a lot! 



> If you don't like it, like I said, plz comeup with a solution MS can use to prevent piracy.


 Can't the world's biggest company find a way to curb piracy? Innocent home users can only give suggestion and ask to develop something better! Wat do u expect from them....to donate some code?



> Windows needs to index files to search faster. If the HD is not indexed, it will still search for file but slow. It is simply telling u that files are not indexed so search is slow. Windows is continuing to index files in background


 U mean indexing even when user has disabled it? Elaborate!! I want windows not to do anything like that without my permission! Also I want options to switch between GUI and terminal mode and list of packages, that makes OS workable, for user to select according to his needs when installing the OS!

Tell em to combine server, student, ultimate editions all in one so that a person can select a software/app accordingly and to his desire and price it reasonably and not like money hungry gluttons!


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

i'd like to see windows messenger and live mail without those advertisements


----------



## Vishal Gupta (Sep 8, 2007)

@gx

I want to suggest one thing. It'll be better to forward these suggestions directly to Microsoft instead of sharing them with other MVPs. As I have noticed we are not getting much response in our "Discussion List" and I'm sure very soon some one will come to say that "Don't post these mails here. We already decided it.". 

That discussion list is not for these issues. There is a special site for MVPs to submit suggestions/bugs in MS software. I think you'll hv that link otherwise tell me and I'll PM you the link coz I can't share it here. Or I can forward the suggestions if you like. Or may be you hv already done it? 

I hvnt read the whole thread but I hv read a few posts and I must admit there are some cool suggestions. Carry on guys.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> How many times can u activate on VISTA?? !


There is no number. Ok, the number is 10000000000000000000000000000 times as long as the hardware is same



> I want MS to bundle these apps or some software from which I can just click and firefox gets installed


Sorry, plz read the first post about this. M*icrosoft cannot bundle 3rd party tools & software with Windows*. There is nothing about Monopoly here. Period. If you want Firefox, download it. But it cannot be bundled in Windows DVD. Link to Windows Market place is already given when Vista boots in the welcome center.

One example, Apple also makes an OS, do they bundle NeoOffie with OS X? Do they bundle FF with OS X? Why r u not asking them too?



> Some screenshot wud be appreciated!


*img396.imageshack.us/img396/3765/snag0000do0.jpg



> Abt cases, likewise I can ask how come an 'experienced' computer user  like u still find Linux uneasy to use when noobies and non-tech guys in here itself find it easy to use and terrific?


I guess you just said u r not talking about Linux here



> And that how come ur PC only worked flawless when the rest of the world out there is complaining bt driver and apps incompatibilty on VISTA and hence reverting back to XP? So please tell MS to give better driver support 'out of box'!!


Everyday more & more drivers are being included in Windows update & more & more software are coming in Vista compatible edition. The out of the box experience is already good. If you have genuine Windows XP or Vista then you can simply check on Windows Update for your hardware's drivers. In 99.9999999% cases you will find there. 

Even if you are not a legit user, then also you can check Windows Update.



> As expected ur PC is god-sent!


Actually, it is . Sai-Yo.,...



> Can't the world's biggest company find a way to curb piracy?


There are millions of computers & Millions of users out there. All have different config, so if you have a better way to curb piracy then plz tell here else your reply is not necessary in this thread.

WGA is not a problem if you are using genuine Windows. Just install it & it will never nag you. I m using WGA here on XP & Vista, & I have never faced a problem. What problem r u facing with WGA? Mind asking for support in Software section. If it asks for check, just let it check


> U mean indexing even when user has disabled it?


If you disable search indexing service then it is disabled completely.



> I want options to switch between GUI and terminal mode and list of packages, that makes OS workable, for user to select according to his needs when installing the OS!


You are asking this 3rd time, Plz do not repeat same thing.



> Tell em to combine server, student, ultimate editions all in one so that a person can select a software/app accordingly and to his desire and price it reasonably and not like money hungry gluttons!


So you want a user to set the price for Windows? Ok, I will pay $2, will MS give me? Sorry, this cannot be done in business. MS already provides separate editions of Windows for different people.



			
				Nish said:
			
		

> i'd like to see windows messenger and live mail without those advertisements


Ads are how they keep the services free. Yahoo & AOL also gives ad in Webmail & Messenger.  You can remove ads from Windows Live mail using a 3rd party tool called A-Patch for Windows Live Messenger



> There is a special site for MVPs to submit suggestions/bugs in MS software. I think you'll hv that link otherwise tell me and I'll PM you the link coz I can't share it here. Or I can forward the suggestions if you like.


haat kangan ko aarsi kya....gimme the link. I forwarded 3 to MS, will make whole list & send them

Yo, other experience Windows users, I would appriciate some help from you guys too here for the quaries of those who want things.


----------



## speedrider_100 (Sep 8, 2007)

I was Juss going through the post.. and i felt that ppl have lot of misconceptions about Microsoft. let me tell you something-
First thing first i am with MS Tech support(Voice) and we support home and corporate consumers both.

one of you have posted that MS has Covered the market because of it's Monopolistic Nature hmmm... I don think so -
We have been using Linux , MAC, Windows? why MS have captured 85% of market share?? 
1. Microsoft OS's are the Most user friendly OS's till date. That's why even  a 70 year old gentleman can operate it without any problem. You can't find this much easy operation in MAC and Linux. ( that's why MS has 85% market share )

2. ppl in the US states buys MS Retail version disks and get support from MS without any charge. and we don't work for Money for Home consumers MS takes 59$ and provide hassle free unlimited support on that particular case number. even if MS gives resolution to the customer but customer is not satisfied with the support. we offer refund to the customer. This increases customer satisfaction and product consumption. ( that's why MS has 85% market share )

3. We as a MS technicians works for customer satisfaction. We are not like dell, HP or Gateway who don't touch customer's computer if it's out of warranty. We help the customer if it's a Microsoft Operating system without whatsoever issues with it. And for your kind information we have very strict parameters we can not just leave the customer without making him or her satisfied with the support. we use to get surveys from our customer. and all MS sites in India touches the 80% satisfaction marks.( that's why MS has 85% market share )

4. MS doesn't refer customer to HP or Dell. We stays with the customer till the resolution with the third party issue. that's why customer writes appreciation mails. Have you ever written anything for Hutch customer care?? Hah ( that's why MS has 85% market share )

5.Last but no the least if MS charges you for the service so it's worth. they are the only Orginazation in the world who takes open CD packs back after use after 3 months of use without any charge. If you have bought a retail version CD and it's corrupted or you have accideltely used that CD even after that MS will change that CD for you., If you have an OEM version CD MS will give a Brand New CD in favour of it. if your MS CD is gone corrupt MS (after 3-4 years of use )will take 30-45$ to get the CD Replaced.( that's why MS has 85% market share ).

Thanks all! that's what i wanted to say! any suggestions will be appreciated!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

Nice work speedrider, we needed some explanation for sure.

Microsoft did not become a monopoly over night, they created software, people used it, they liked it, they bought it a lot. They wanted OEMs to install it on there computers when they buy it so it was given as installed. This is why Microsoft has 85% Market share.

Post 1 in this thread has been updated with user feedback about what they want & solutions for the time being.

Anirudh, I don't have a Linux partition on my real HD. Can you plz check this from my 1st post & state here whether u can read & write properly or not from Windows.



			
				GX said:
			
		

> To read & write to Linux EXT2 & EXT3 Partition & File system in Windows you can use Ext2IFS


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> WGA is not a problem if you are using genuine Windows. Just install it & it will never nag you. I m using WGA here on XP & Vista, & I have never faced a problem.


 yes, it is. its the biggest PITA! i believe the nags of a wife are lesser than those of WGA!!!! i'm really sick of validating windows so many times. as mediator said, ur PC/windows is God-sent!

one more request: windows boot loader should learn to co-exist wid a linux system. meaning if i install linux first then windows then it should add linux to its bootloader (jus like it does for any prev. version of windows)



			
				speedrider_100 said:
			
		

> 1. Microsoft OS's are the Most user friendly OS's till date. That's why even  a 70 year old gentleman can operate it without any problem. You can't find this much easy operation in MAC and Linux. ( that's why MS has 85% market share )


 tho i may say, that linux doesn't look soooooooo easy (after using windows) but surely MAC is the easiest to use. i don't agree wid this point of urs.

secondly, i've solved all the problems myself and hence never got a chance to interact wid MS support. but reading all that u posted abt the customer support, i'm really happy about it. cheers 

edit: 3rd party software for ext2/3 support are available and thats what i'm using now. and GX it works. but i suggested out of the box read only support for ext2/3.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> 'm really sick of validating windows so many times.



On my genuine Windows Vista & XP installation the only time WGA appears when I go to Microsoft.com to download something manually which asks for WGA validation. It never appears ever again.



> Windows boot loader should learn to co-exist wid a linux system.



Sure, have a look at Vista's BCDEdit. I M using Vista bootloader to load Mac OS while booting. You can also have a look at EasyBCD 1.7



> 3rd party software for ext2/3 support are available and thats what i'm using now,  but i suggested out of the box read only support for ext2/3.



Although I do agree that native support for this should be there in Windows, in the meantime you can simply use Ext2IFS. This is for those who say Windows cannot read Ext2 etc at all.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure, have a look at Vista's BCDEdit. I M using Vista bootloader to load Mac OS while booting. You can also have a look at EasyBCD 1.7


again if'd to use 3rd party boot loaders then i can edit grub. thats the best. what i meant was that windows should learn to respect the existance of other OS like solaris/linux etc. and not overwrite the boot sectors wid its own but add the OS to its boot sector. i'm sorry to say vista's boot loader doesn't do it for solaris or any linux.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Although I do agree that native support for this should be there in Windows, in the meantime you can simply use Ext2IFS. This is for those who say Windows cannot read Ext2 etc at all.


i don't think anybody said that. if ppl are smart enuf to know abt ext2/3 FS they are smart enuf to make it readable under windows


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## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> what i meant was that windows should learn to respect the existance of other OS like solaris/linux etc. and not overwrite the boot sectors wid its own but add the OS to its boot sector.



For this, GRUB developers should come forward & work with MS. They are the one developing GRUB not MS. You can Linux to bootloader of Vista using either EasyBCD (GUI) or BCDEdit.exe (CLI)



> i don't think anybody said that. if ppl are smart enuf to know abt ext2/3 FS they are smart enuf to make it readable under windows


HIH, mediator, & many more said Windows cannot read Ext2/3 here in this very thread. Just clearing the misconception. I would urge other users such as u, iMav, vishal to come forward & help here too.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure it does, try EasyBCD (GUI) or the included BCDEdit.exe (CLI)


d00d, you aint getting the point. if i hafta edit then i may well use grub. my point is that it should automatically add the older boot record to it when windows is installed after the installation of any other OS.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> my point is that it should automatically add the older boot record to it when windows is installed after the installation of any other OS.



There are many Linux distributions & all use either same or different boot loading mechanism. Thats why I said that GRUB developers should come forward & work with MS. They are the one developing GRUB not MS.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> There are many Linux distributions & all use either same or different boot loading mechanism. Thats why I said that GRUB developers should come forward & work with MS. They are the one developing GRUB not MS.


 its pointless to speak wid you. plz do NOT forward this suggestion to MS and i'm sure even they won't understand what is being suggested!!! let alone implementing it...

writing the boot sector to a file and then pointing the entry in the windows boot loader to that file to load unix/linux. is it that hard? or is it that grub developers, in collaboration wid authorities haf implemented a law that nobody can touch grub!!! this is what even the windows (for prev. versions of windows) and 3rd party boot loaders (for all OSs) do!

grub developers should come and work wid MS coz windows overwrites the unix-like/linux boot sectors!!!....   i dunno what to say....


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

No, they should tell MS how to implement this in Vista's bootloader co-existing with Vista.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

ok i've told how its done.

anyways, lets forget that post and think this: GRUB is an open source software. are MS coders and engineers so dumb that they don't understand what the code contains???!!!!  



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> No, *they should tell MS how to implement this in Vista's bootloader* co-existing with Vista.


moreover all the pieces of code in vista are closed source and proprietory. how can an outsider tell MS how to implement a feature in their software? outsiders can only say what they want, how they want is not something they are concerned wid if its not OSS!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> GRUB is an open source software.



It is not made by MS. With user demand MS can implement this using there own method. However, I doubt there is any need cos GRUB is already there which works. 



> how can an outsider tell MS how to implement a feature in their software?



Microsoft does allows partners to have a look and audit the code & give it back to MS for checking & implementation. Zeeshan already made this clear long time ago.


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> There is no number. Ok, the number is 10000000000000000000000000000 times as long as the hardware is same


 Are u deliberately trying to conceal something? *[SIZE=+1]PLease specify the number of activations for different hardware/on diff machines for VISTA installation!![/SIZE]*

I hope ur aptitude/comprehension isn't that bad to have not understood such a simple statement!!



> Sorry, plz read the first post about this. Microsoft cannot bundle 3rd party tools & software with Windows. There is nothing about Monopoly here. Period. If you want Firefox, download it. But it cannot be bundled in Windows DVD. Link to Windows Market place is already given when Vista boots in the welcome center.


 It wud be better if MS gives some tool that can point towards firefox, ownload it and install it in just 1-2 clicks!! Atleast try telling them that!



> One example, Apple also makes an OS, do they bundle NeoOffie with OS X? Do they bundle FF with OS X? Why r u not asking them too?


 Coz this thread isn't bt Apple or Linux! So better keep it to MS-* !!



> I guess you just said u r not talking about Linux here


 Ofcors not! But that was just a general analogy of the cases u talked bt. I didn't say anything bt Linux being better or some OS war did I?




> Everyday more & more drivers are being included in Windows update & more & more software are coming in Vista compatible edition. The out of the box experience is already good. If you have genuine Windows XP or Vista then you can simply check on Windows Update for your hardware's drivers. In 99.9999999% cases you will find there.
> 
> Even if you are not a legit user, then also you can check Windows Update.


 WE had the 'file delete' problem. How can the 'out of box' experience be good then? May be with VISTA-SP1 it will be. But u don't expect the rest of the world complaining bt drivers problem and apps incompatibility to be joking do u?



> There are millions of computers & Millions of users out there. All have different config, so if you have a better way to curb piracy then plz tell here else your reply is not necessary in this thread.
> 
> WGA is not a problem if you are using genuine Windows. Just install it & it will never nag you. I m using WGA here on XP & Vista, & I have never faced a problem. What problem r u facing with WGA? Mind asking for support in Software section. If it asks for check, just let it check


 The piracy problem is MS's problem, not end-user's! Read the thread u created first. Please stop forgetting what u started!

WGA annoys genuine users too. WE r not concerned if MS had sympathy on ur machine. Tell MS to rectify that crapware!!



> You are asking this 3rd time, Plz do not repeat same thing.


 Please show me the other 2 times if I repeated! Terminal shud be an added advantage from where I can control my OS completely, so tell them that I shud have some options to chose bet terminal and GUI!!



> So you want a user to set the price for Windows? Ok, I will pay $2, will MS give me? Sorry, this cannot be done in business. MS already provides separate editions of Windows for different people.


 Then update ur EULA of things (ur first page again) that MS can't do!! Too bad home users/students r devoid of AERO!



> For this, GRUB developers should come forward & work with MS. They are the one developing GRUB not MS. You can Linux to bootloader of Vista using either EasyBCD (GUI) or BCDEdit.exe (CLI)


 The source is open. U think MS can't see that and program accordingly? If OSS developers can bring in support for proprietary an dclosed source formats, then y can't the world's biggest company do that for atleast Open source formats? Note it and tell them!!



> HIH, mediator, & many more said Windows cannot read Ext2/3 here in this very thread. Just clearing the misconception. I would urge other users such as u, iMav, vishal to come forward & help here too.


 As beta testers? Since ur machine is god-sent, it wud be better if u first lay ur hands on MS developed softwares first and test them. I certainly do not want a BSOD on my system!!


And please kindly tell the activation times for a VISTA CD being used for different machines!!


----------



## shantanu (Sep 8, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> And please kindly tell the activation times for a VISTA CD being used for different machines!!


 
its Vista DVD in almost all cases.. and Vista Cds  for 32 bit version..(only if you buy the cd version)

well its 10 activations  ( i am in no way related to the topic) just cleared how many activations !


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

I m not here to argue with u mediator.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> [SIZE=+1]PLease specify the number of activations for different hardware/on diff machines for VISTA installation!![/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Stop trolling plz. I have already said that you can move your license from one computer to another computer 10 times after calling MS tech support. They will simply ask u 3 questions about it, & will move your license. After this the old computer will no longer qualify as a genuine Windows cos your license is now on the new computer.
*
You buy Windows Vista license to use it at one computer at one time. If you buy a new computer "move" the license to the new computer.*
[/SIZE] 


> It wud be better if MS gives some tool that can point towards firefox, download it and install it in just 1-2 clicks


Sorry, Firefox is a 3rd party product which Microsoft has made available on Windows marketplaces & cannot bundle with Windows. You are getting it in Microsoft's own Windows Market place, the link is right there in Windows Welcome center, what else do u want? Spoon feeding? If this doesn't work for u, stop trolling this thread cos I have mentioned it already many times.



> WE had the 'file delete' problem. How can the 'out of box' experience be good then? May be with VISTA-SP1 it will be. But u don't expect the rest of the world complaining bt drivers problem and apps incompatibility to be joking do u?


Plz stop trolling the thread. The file delete problem was not universal & those who were facing this problem can simply call at Microsoft Tech support to get the appropriate fix which is also available now via Windows Update

There are drivers & app compability problems. However it is the responsibility of hardware manufacturers to make Vista compliant drivers & for the ISVs to make Vista compatible apps. Vista was given to hardware manufacturers & ISVs already to make compliant apps since 2 years during the Beta stage. With each passing day the situation is changing.



> The piracy problem is MS's problem, not end-user's


And Microsoft is taking measures to prevent Piracy. Like I said, if you have a better solution then WGA then come forward & tell here. Don't just shout whose problem is it cos we are here to find solutions, not to whine about problems.



> Terminal shud be an added advantage from where I can control my OS completely, so tell them that I shud have some options to chose bet terminal and GUI!!


Did you tried looking for Windows PowerShell

*upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/PowerShell.PNG



> Too bad home users/students r devoid of AERO!


Stop trolling if you don't know anything. Only Vista basic & starter edition comes without Aero. A student can very well buy Home Premium at a very reduced price if the college is in collaboration with Microsoft. In USA, a student can buy Home Premium for as low as $100



> The source is open. U think MS can't see that and program accordingly? If OSS developers can bring in support for proprietary an dclosed source formats, then y can't the world's biggest company do that for atleast Open source formats? Note it and tell them!!


The feature is already there in form of BCDedit.exe (CLI) or EasyBCD (GUI). How many times will u have problem in reading. I m not going to repeat this again.


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

> well its 10 activations


aaaah! I see what gx was hiding from!


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> Stop trolling plz. I have already said that you can *move your license* from one computer to another computer 2 times *after calling* MS tech support. They *will simply ask u 3 questions* about it, & will move your license. After this the old computer will no longer qualify as a genuine Windows cos your license is now on the new computer.
> 
> You buy Windows Vista license to use it at one computer at one time. If you buy a new computer "move" the license to the new computer.


 The bolded part....So much trauma, an end-user has to go thru! Tell them to change that nuisance and make the lives of the gullible users 'easy'! Did u tell them to change the EULA and format it to look like humans made it so that it tells 'clearly' what a user can do??

I'm just discussing how u wanted it to be. There's a diffrence between troll and discussion! If u can't understand that, then tell MS to stop chosing brainless people as MVPs who don't have any aptitude or comprehension skills at all!!



> Sorry, Firefox is a 3rd party product which Microsoft has made available on Windows marketplaces & cannot bundle with Windows. You are getting it in Microsoft's own Windows Market place, the link is right there in Windows Welcome center, what else do u want? Spoon feeding? If this doesn't work for u, stop trolling this thread cos I have mentioned it already many times.


 Atleast tell them the suggestion for which u were paid to create this noble thread!! Yes that doesn't work for me, I can go directly to firefox site than going to that pathetic site. How is MS helping me then and making my life easy?

$150+ CD and they can't even bundle a workable OS out of box and proprietary formats with it? Are they looting the users with that showing that they can only bundle 'file delete problems, driver and apps incompatibilties' in that $150+ ? I am suggesting something as u wanted. 

Tell them to be reasonable!!



> The file delete problem was not universal & those who were facing this problem can simply call at Microsoft Tech support to get the appropriate fix which is also available now via Windows Update


 So u do agree that they had very comfortable out of box experience!!



> There are drivers & app compability problems. However it is the responsibility of hardware manufacturers to make Vista compliant drivers & for the ISVs to make Vista compatible apps. Vista was given to hardware manufacturers & ISVs already to make compliant apps since 2 years during the Beta stage. With each passing day the situation is changing.


 If OSS developers can do that, why can't world's biggest company do it? Here we were talkling bt MS bundling out of box experience and drivers and here we see u again reverting back to talking bt manufacturers making VISTA complaint drivers!

How and when did the manufacturers come in between? Can't MS bundle nice out of box support themselves to deliver a workable OS in that $150+ ? Note it in ur notepad, if u dont have MS-Office and tell MS bt it!



> And Microsoft is taking measures to prevent Piracy. Like I said, if you have a better solution then WGA then come forward & tell here. Don't just shout whose problem is it cos we are here to find solutions, not to whine about problems.


 Oh, so u want end-users to spoon feed MS with some newly discovered computer algorithms? U have high expectations from end-users it seems and very little from MS! 



> Did you tried looking for Windows PowerShell


 Tell me if u can control ur whole PC with it and if my PC can work without GUI as well! If so, then tell MS to grant options between powershell and GUI in the windows install stage itself!! Note it and tell them!



> Only Vista basic & starter edition comes without Aero. A student can very well buy Home Premium at a very reduced price if the college is in collaboration with Microsoft. In USA, a student can buy Home Premium for as low as $100


 Tell MS to be reasonable and use a lil more brains from next time! U think the fancy effects of AERO wud be used in companies and by oldies 'more than' younger generation and students? Have mercy!!

Please ask MS to tell their MVPs to use a lil more brains and think abt what age category will those worthless AERO effects occur fancy and amazing to!!


> The feature is already there in form of BCDedit.exe (CLI) or EasyBCD (GUI). How many times will u have problem in reading. I m not going to repeat this again.


 Then I hope MS will bundle Linux support in boot as well as partition reading too! I'm not going to repeat this again. So tell them the whole thing to bundle Linux boot support as well!!

If u dont understand such things then stop trolling!! 




			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> its Vista DVD in almost all cases.. and Vista Cds for 32 bit version..(only if you buy the cd version)
> 
> well its 10 activations ( i am in no way related to the topic) just cleared how many activations !


   Sry brother!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

> So much trauma, an end-user has to go thru!



Is it hard to make a phone call for you?



> Tell them to change that nuisance and make the lives of the gullible users 'easy'!



Since it is bothering u again & again, plz state here how this can be done, also tell a few methods to prevent piracy. If you can't give a solution or advice on how to make this better then plz do not whine in this thread. 



> If u can't understand that, then tell MS to stop chosing brainless people as MVPs who don't have any aptitude or comprehension skills at all!!



I am not here to argue with you. Thread reported



> Yes that doesn't work for me, I can go directly to firefox site than going to that pathetic site. How is MS helping me then and making my life easy?



You asked for MS to provide a link or a pointer to download Firefox. I just mentioned it. Firefox is not Microsoft product so Microsoft cannot support or provide it on there own website. Microsoft makes your life easier by giving there own product which you may or may not chose to use.



> $150+ CD and they can't even bundle a workable OS out of box and proprietary formats with it



Due to licensing restriction imposed by 3rd party vendors, MS can't do this. Plz read point 2 on post 1 again.



> Are they looting the users with that showing that they can only bundle 'file delete problems, driver and apps incompatibilties' in that $150+



I m not here to argue with u, if u have some suggestion then plz provide else do not reply.



> If OSS developers can do that, why can't world's biggest company do it?
> 
> How and when did the manufacturers come in between?



Microsoft provides more then 40k drivers by bundling them in Windows Vista & Windows Update. They are already doing it. Plz stop arguing & comparing Vista to Linux here.

One example, Vista RTM was released in November 2006. nVidia GeForce 9800 will release sometime in December 2007. How do u expect MS to provide drivers for an unreleased product in Vista RTM in 2006.?

As soon as the card releases there will be a compatible driver on Windows Update. If you can't wait for that, then during the installation of Windows Vista, just enter the CD which comes with your graphics card & give the path for 3rd party drivers during Windows installation using the option in installation.



> so u want end-users to spoon feed MS with some newly discovered computer algorithms?



I asked for a method, not code.



> Tell me if u can control ur whole PC with it



I don't know. Have a look at PowerShell documentation.


> if my PC can work without GUI as well!



Windows Vista is a product for home use where home consumers demand a good GUI, bundling PowerShell only with no GUI by default makes no sense here. If you still want to, then you can always download PowerShell via Windows update & use it.



> tell MS to grant options between powershell and GUI in the windows install stage itself!!



If you want a GUIless CLI only OS then have a look at Windows Server 2008. This option is given there. You can freely download Beta 3 of Windows Serve 2008.

Fellow members, I would like to ask you all to provide feedback whether mediator is trolling here or not & whether his arguments are valid here or not. Despite of me mentioning here again & again that keep the trolling to nil, he is not listening.



> U think the fancy effects of AERO wud be used in companies and by oldies 'more than' younger generation and students? Have mercy!!



I guess you had problem in reading.



			
				GX said:
			
		

> In USA, a student can buy Home Premium for as low as $100





> Then I hope MS will bundle Linux support in boot as well as partition reading too



Plz read post one of this thread for reading Ext2/3 File system partitions in Windows using Ext2IFS.

Regarding boot support in Vista's bootloader, if it is so hard for you to do it. here is a tutorial to boot in Linux using Vista's bootloader


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

I will say this one thing. And I've said it before.

My friend had got a brand new Windows XP Home CD, and went through the install process. Then he tried calling the number, but couldn't get through. So he called me up and I went to activate Windows, thinking it was an easy process. The line just wouldnt work. 

So I said screw it, and I installed a pirated Windows on his machine and it worked fine without any problems. He was happy as long as his computer worked. 

Moral of the story?

[this story of mine was carried on Digit mag...]


----------



## entrana (Sep 8, 2007)

if its anything microsoft, pirated is actually better than ooriginal
*keznews.com/3282_Why_buy_a_genuine_Windows_Vista_when_pirated_is_easier_and_better_


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

@ enterna & goobi

Do you want to say that Microsoft should compleately remove activation & CD Key system in Windows?


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 8, 2007)

Arre saurav buddy if the cd-key system and activation system is not working or there are plenty of ways around them then it's better to remove them.
You have original XP you install it using a cd-key and then you activate it.
You have pirated XP you pop in the cd and then forget about it(silent installation).No need for cd-keys and no need of activation.ANd some of the pirated versions even install all the necessary softwares you will need.


Moral of the story--Cd-key and activation system is not working and you can make life of genuine users better by removing them.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

The_Devil_Himself said:
			
		

> Arre saurav buddy if the cd-key system and activation system is not working



Ever tried using a genuine XP/Vista system? It only takes 1 minute to activate via net or Phone. It is definately working.


> there are plenty of ways around them



For piracy.



> then it's better to remove them.



In that case, people will simply buy Pirated Windows Vista DVD for Rs 100 & install it on as many computer as they want & no one will buy genuine. Can u plz provide a method for Microsoft to make profit.



> You have pirated XP you pop in the cd and then forget about it(silent installation).No need for cd-keys and no need of activation.



You are not paying Microsoft & there developers for there labor, research & developement. You are stealing there art.



> Moral of the story--Cd-key and activation system is not working and you can make life of genuine users better by removing them.



Plz tell a way for Microsoft to make sure people still buy genuine Windows & not Pirated Windows.

CD Key & activation system is not what it looks like. You can read the post of speedrider some posts above to know about it. It is definately working & easier for genuine users. if it flags your vista as non genuine, then why don't u simply call Microsoft support for help. You are a genuine user, right? Then why r u not asking for help when they are there to help u.

If u find calling MS support tough compared to looking for a crack on the net, then........


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 8, 2007)

You see if I purchase a windows xp cd from M$ then I am not paying for 0's and 1's written over the disc but actually for the service that will be provided to me.So I am purchasing their support and services and not any damn cd-key. 

What I am saying is lower the prices of  products and make the life of users easier.This will,in my opinion, help them curb piracy better than WGA and CD-key sh*t.And as a matter of fact nobody likes to pirate anything including me.


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure, have a look at Vista's BCDEdit. I M using Vista bootloader to load Mac OS while booting. You can also have a look at EasyBCD 1.7


  r u using vista on mac or osx on pc?anyways i'd love to have some Dongle protection with windows like some softwares have.so theres a minutest chance of windows 7 being pirated.coz nobody has been able to crack some softwares with that Syncrosoft protection since 2yrs or more.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> anyways i'd love to have some Dongle protection with windows like some softwares have.so theres a minutest chance of windows 7 being pirated.coz nobody has been able to crack some softwares with that Syncrosoft protection since 2yrs or more.



What if u lose the dongle?

Autodesk 3Ds Max & Maya, Softimage Face robot use such protection & they  are cracked.



> You see if I purchase a windows xp cd from M$ then I am not paying for 0's and 1's written over the disc but actually for the service that will be provided to me.So I am purchasing their support and services and not any damn cd-key.



You use the OS, isn't that a service.



> What I am saying is lower the prices of products and make the life of users easier.This will,in my opinion, help them curb piracy better than WGA and CD-key sh*t



I know, & I agree. Point has been noted already 

Good bye for now


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

I'm saying completely remove the CD key and activation process. Its useless cause it is NOT stopping piracy. They could save up on their resources on developing such anti-piracy measures, and reduce the price of the OS. 

You can't make a person buy something he doesn't want to pay for...


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> Is it hard to make a phone call for you?


 Moving the license, phone calls and other crap => Wastes my time. IS it hard for MS to come up with something better like unlimiting the activations? Even with the phone calls the user just gets another activation.
Such a big company and I can't believe they can't come up with something better, a better procedure or some algorithm instead of employing their MVPs to survey the end-users to come up with something!!



> Since it is bothering u again & again, plz state here how this can be done, also tell a few methods to prevent piracy. If you can't give a solution or advice on how to make this better then plz do not whine in this thread.


 I am just an end-user! So suggesting MS and their merceneries to come up with something beter. But I guess its hitting their balls hard!!



			
				gx said:
			
		

> I am not here to argue with you. Thread reported


 U think u have got some mod as a friend/back here that u keep reporting each thread u don't like and questions MS? May be the concerned mod shud judge ur comprehension skills first and y u created this thread! U can't even differntiate bet. trolls and discussions!



> You asked for MS to provide a link or a pointer to download Firefox. I just mentioned it. Firefox is not Microsoft product so Microsoft cannot support or provide it on there own website. Microsoft makes your life easier by giving there own product which you may or may not chose to use.


 Yes, I wanted it, but as a part or an option in Windows installation CD. Can't u understand that? Note it down!





> Due to licensing restriction imposed by 3rd party vendors, MS can't do this. Plz read point 2 on post 1 again.


 Then what r we getting in $150+ ? BSODs, crashes, hangups, driver and app incompatibilities with a file delete problem that u have to download a hotfix after wards?? Not to mention, NO AERO!! Tell them to ponder over this and be reasonable!



> I m not here to argue with u, if u have some suggestion then plz provide else do not reply.


 U r here to do what MS told u to! U r not even doing that properly!



> One example, Vista RTM was released in November 2006. nVidia GeForce 9800 will release sometime in December 2007. How do u expect MS to provide drivers for an unreleased product in Vista RTM in 2006.?


 Do u think the whole world is complaining just for drivers of the hardware  created after VISTA release? Is ur aptitude limited or like to justify without using ur brains?

I wonder what u wud say bt apps incompatibilties!



> I asked for a method, not code.


 And by any chance if u have done a little programming u wud know code directly depends on method. Method is the main thing, code is just a small integral entity!! U sure have high expectations from end-users and very very little from MS!




> I don't know. Have a look at PowerShell documentation.


 Pallease do ur job properly and update ur 'THINGs of what MS can do' list! U dont expect ur granny to  read EULA and expect end-users to read everything? 



> Windows Vista is a product for home use where home consumers demand a good GUI, bundling PowerShell only with no GUI by default makes no sense here. If you still want to, then you can always download PowerShell via Windows update & use it.


 WIndows VISTA <specify>!!

Windows VISTA student edition or wateva edition is for students, shud have an option for terminal. Why shud I dwonload it, when MS shud bundle it and give an option or it in its staggering $150+ CD? So u see it makes sense!! 

Thats why I tell u again n again to note it and email them, coz some of their brainless MVPs can't understand simple and obvious things which serve as necessities!!




> If you want a GUIless CLI only OS then have a look at Windows Server 2008. This option is given there. You can freely download Beta 3 of Windows Serve 2008.


 Again u r forgettin what this thread is bt! I want it in VISTA and MS to change it!!

I feel like reporting ur comprehension skills. 




> Fellow members, I would like to ask you all to provide feedback whether mediator is trolling here or not & whether his arguments are valid here or not. Despite of me mentioning here again & again that keep the trolling to nil, he is not listening.


 Alas, shantanu answered what u were concealing! I guess u can't understand why u created this thread!




> In USA, a student can buy Home Premium for as low as $100


 And does that include AERO? Why wud a young nourished sapling spend $250+ to buy ultimate edition, just to see AERO? Since student version if for them, AERO shud be included in that. Its the younger generations that wants to see AERO, not companies and oldies!

Please stop ur troll if u can't understand what u started accidently or may forcefully! I am giving suggestions to include AERO in stdent and home edition. Note it and do ur work properly instead of bashing members here!



> Regarding boot support in Vista's bootloader, if it is so hard for you to do it. here is a tutorial to boot in Linux using Vista's bootloader


 Why shud we need tutorial when we expect the biggest company to do it by default/out of box!!



			
				source_by_gx said:
			
		

> Step 1 – Install GRUB on the Linux partition (outside of MBR)
> 
> *As Windows Vista will replace the Master Boot Record (MBR) with its own*, we need to relocate GRUB elsewhere by running grub-install with the Linux partition as a parameter.


 Do I need to say more! I want out of box support! Do u understand what 'out of box' and 'default' means?



> @ enterna & goobi
> 
> Do you want to say that Microsoft should compleately remove activation & CD Key system in Windows?


 @entrana & @goobi plz come up with some method that MS cudn't ponder over or realise using its industry strength of over a million employees! 

@GX : TEll them to come up with something better rather than bullying its users n fanboys! Have some high expectations from MS from now on...Don't be afraid to forwards the suggestions!! *www.smileyhut.com/eat_drink/snack.gif


----------



## entrana (Sep 8, 2007)

you see no one can really stop piracy, microsoft are greedy douches anyways, u think anyone wud wanna spend a damn whopping 10k for windows vista ultimate? NO!! hence the reason piracy. m$ is just trying to go around the bushes as they dont want to lower the prices. everyone just blames piracy well there is also a  reason for piracy u know, and its cuz of the expensive rates. according to me windows vista ultimate shud cost 2.5k, and theyre sale rate will surely increase


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> I'm saying completely remove the CD key and activation process. Its useless cause it is NOT stopping piracy. They could save up on their resources on developing such anti-piracy measures, and reduce the price of the OS.



Even if they release the OS for Rs 2,500 like I mentioned here, may people will not buy and Pirate cos it is there mentality. They are not paying for Windows & the labor of MS developers, then how can u expect MS to support your Windows like a genuine user? Why do u expect MS to give u regular updates for the OS if it is not genuine. If u r stealing something then u do not deserve to get services from MS. This is why WGA is there which prevents pirated users from using Windows.

If u r a genuine user & your Windows is incorrectly flagged as Pirated, then kindly call at the Microsoft tech support & ask them the problem to reactivate. They are there to help u.



> You can't make a person buy something he doesn't want to pay for...



Like I said above, if you don't pay & steal Windows, u don't deserve to use Windows, or other Microsoft services & updates. Period.


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

^Do u pay for zone alarm firewall, MS office, winzip, winrar, games that u play, adobe software, maya and all the 3rd party apps? If so show me ur bill please!

Who really deserves to use the windows which comes up with file delete problem for which u have to get a hot fix for??

Please don't troll and talk about who deserves what! Like wise may be not even 1% windows users be deserving to use windows! Stick to the topic please!


----------



## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Even if they release the OS for Rs 2,500 like I mentioned here, may people will not buy and Pirate cos it is there mentality.


 I don't know about others but I and most of my friends will buy Vista  if the cost is right.


> This is why WGA is there which prevents pirated users from using Windows.


Are you sure WGA is stopping pirates from using windows.Then how come 90% of Indians(proclaimed by speedrider_100) use pirated windows.

You know that windows piracy is everywhere.So stop telling that WGA works.It is just a pain in the a$$ of legitimate users .


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

I m not here to argue with u mediator



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> IS it hard for MS to come up with something better like unlimiting the activations?


I have already answered that you can activate Vista as many times as u like on the same computer.

You can move Vista license from one computer to another 10 times.



> Yes, I wanted it, but as a part or an option in Windows installation CD. Can't u understand that? Note it down!


I m sorry, I clearly mentioned why this cannot be done & given in feedback.



> Then what r we getting in $150+ ? BSODs, crashes, hangups, driver and app incompatibilities with a file delete problem that u have to download a hotfix after wards?? Not to mention, NO AERO!!


With proper WHQL drivers, BSODs are rare.
In Vista if an application crashes, it doesn't crashes the whole OS.
Driver & app incompability are the responsibility for 3rd party vendors to solve who are the creators of these.
You do not need to download the file copy hotfix cos the problem is not universal & may or may not arise at all.
Windows Vista Home premium includes Aero.



> I wonder what u wud say bt apps incompatibilties!


Microsoft gave ISVs Vista beta already before launching to fix there apps. It is there responsibility. Microsoft even provides compability mode for application available when u right click on an exe ->Properties.



> Windows VISTA student edition or wateva edition is for students, shud have an option for terminal. Why shud I dwonload it, when MS shud bundle it and give an option or it in its staggering $150+ CD? So u see it makes sense!!


 *
PowerShell was released after Vista. Microsoft lacks a time machine to bundle it in Vista RTM before powershell was released.* It is available by Windows update easily. Stop whining cos the option is already there for u to use.



> Thats why I tell u again n again to note it and email them, coz some of their brainless MVPs can't understand simple and obvious things which serve as necessities!!


Reported.



> Again u r forgettin what this thread is bt! I want it in VISTA and MS to change it!!


Powershell was released after Vista was launched, Vista is an OS for home usage so it makes no sense to include PowerShell. If you need it you can download via Windows Update. Powershell will be included in Vista SP1



> And does that include AERO? Why wud a young nourished sapling spend $250+ to buy ultimate edition, just to see AERO? Since student version if for them, AERO shud be included in that.
> I am giving suggestions to include AERO in stdent and home edition.


A student can buy a student license for *Vista Home premium* for about $100 easily in USA which *includes support for Aero*. I m sorry I cannot do anything about your ignorance.



> Why shud we need tutorial when we expect the biggest company to do it by default/out of box!!


Powershell is a product made for Powerusers & admins who get documentation with it when the download it.

Do not expect me to reply to you unnecessary troll. Sorry.



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> show me ur bill please!



Why?


----------



## entrana (Sep 8, 2007)

dude look what im trying to say is more people will buy if it costs 2.5k, and u have to admit, 90%of indians do use pirated stuff, i bet even you do
the only thing original i have is my windows xp and my pc and some games


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

entrana said:
			
		

> dude look what im trying to say is more people will buy if it costs 2.5k



I know, how many times do I have to say that even I agree to this.....


----------



## sakumar79 (Sep 8, 2007)

Just two quick points - 
1. regarding Dongle - I think that in the US, using hardware locks is not allowed (I may be wrong)
2. regarding bundling Firefox, etc with Windows - If MS did that, I think Opera would sue them... Similarly, if MS bundled OOo, Abiword makers, etc would sue them...

Arun


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

sakumar79 said:
			
		

> 2. regarding bundling Firefox, etc with Windows - *If MS did that, I think Opera would sue them... Similarly, if MS bundled OOo, Abiword makers, etc would sue them*...



Thanx for understanding... *I hope that makes it clear why MS cannot bundle 3rd party software with Windows.*

One Example, Google sued MS for providing Windows Live search as the default search engine in IE 7. Microsoft made it very easy to just click on the tool bar to change the service provider, but still Google was whining.

If someone goes to Google.com they automatically get a notification "Would U like to set Google as the default search engine" but still Google was whining.

Fellow members I ask you, IE 7 is a product made by MS, shouldn't MS be allowed to bundle what they want with it.? Are they stopping anyone from changing the search default?


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What if u lose the dongle?


 what if you lose the cd\dvd  
all steinberg\east west\digidesign products have not been cracked thanks to the dongle protection.3ds max doesnt use that protection?but i dont know i m not an anim8r.btw if u use vista on mac please tell me how to do that.



			
				sakumar79 said:
			
		

> Just two quick points -
> 1. regarding Dongle - I think that in the US, using hardware locks is not allowed (I may be wrong)


 dongle protection for softwares isn't banned anywhere.


----------



## enticer86 (Sep 8, 2007)

i m fed up with these never ending 500MB+ updates in XP


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## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

enticer86 said:
			
		

> i m fed up with these never ending 500MB+ updates in XP


 yeah.i had the same problem


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## entrana (Sep 8, 2007)

wow guys 500mb+ patches, i never downloaded this mutch patches
but its true google whines too much


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## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

enticer86 said:
			
		

> i m fed up with these never ending 500MB+ updates in XP



Which Windows XP update is 500 MB? SP2 was 265 MB.

It is an OS & every OS has bugs so they fix it. Ubuntu installation is 700 MB ISO, & You need to download a 700 MB ISO again if u want to upgrade from one version to another.

Mac OS X updates are 70 80 MB for incremental update & 350+ MB for combo update. 

Windows Updates on the other hand are usually 4 MB max, generally under 900 KB to download if u download via Windows Update.

Now, if u r fed up of updating your OS for new features then........i have nothing to say


----------



## entrana (Sep 8, 2007)

true, i think the only problem though in vista is the prices, functionality and bugs. the bugs are enormous


----------



## enticer86 (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Which Windows XP update is 500 MB? SP2 was 265 MB.



well if u had sp1 wali installation CD, then sp2+ other small PATCHES total up to approx 500MB+... I formatted my PC a few days back n thats y whining now. I hav SP2 installation in a CD but nothin to do abt the other patches- if u hav an idea pls helpme out. Autopatcher is not workin these days.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Now, if u r fed up of updating your OS for new features then........i have nothing to say



U r so rite bro- east of west XP stil is the best. maybe coz m more used to it... but i got this Solaris CD, and Ubuntu one too... Stil m a die hard windows xp [and win98] lover


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

My point is simple.

If developing anti piracy measures cost them like 1k of the 18k for Windows Vista, it would be better to stop developing that anti piracy measures and reduce the price to 17k. In both cases, people are going to pirate it whether MS likes it or not, so why waste money on incorporating anti piracy measures?


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

windows ultimate costs rs9737.check deltapage.com i think the price should be kept the same but some protection must b added.or else reduce the price.but the thing is that still no one will pay thousands when vista in india is available for 100 rupees.so better put some protection or something.
and *gx_saurav* thanks for that link to remove messenger ads.

one more thing i need-just like a windows image and fax viewer there should b a office viewer-an app which can show word,excel,etc files.coz a lot of  ppl like me dont have office but come across with such files everyday.


----------



## goobimama (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeah I realise the price of the OS is 9k, but what I'm saying is, it could be lowered if they don't waste time with this activation cr@p.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

entrana said:
			
		

> the bugs are enormous



Every OS has bugs. Microsoft is updating the OS regularly & the updates are given to the users either monthly or weekly as applicable via windows update.



> well if u had sp1 wali installation CD, then sp2+ other small PATCHES total up to approx 500MB+... I formatted my PC a few days back n thats y whining now. I hav SP2 installation in a CD but nothin to do abt the other patches- if u hav an idea pls helpme out. Autopatcher is not workin these days.



Check your PM. This thread is not about this.



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> In both cases, people are going to pirate it whether MS likes it or not, so why waste money on incorporating anti piracy measures?



Because unlike India, the piracy regulations set by the government in other countries are very strict. The problem of piracy isn't that much in Europe & USA.

I do agree that prices should be decreased. They are already at all time low. Rs 5,350 for Windows Vista home premiumi, *you can pay this much if u r earning cos you will be using Vista for many years to come*. It is completely worth it, you will be getting free updates for many years, all software work, u work on it, & you can even use it to make money in many ways. The prices should be further low though.



> one more thing i need-just like a windows image and fax viewer there should b a office viewer-an app which can show word,excel,etc files.coz a lot of ppl like me dont have office but come across with such files everyday.



Already noted, have a look at post 1 of this thread.


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

> I have already answered that you can activate Vista as many times as u like on the same computer.
> 
> You can move Vista license from one computer to another 10 times.


 Sorry, bt wat if me n my other 15 friends decide to buy VISTA? Do we have to buy 2 install boxes? How absurd!

You shud just forward our suggestions without using ur brains as a  processing box in between!



> With proper WHQL drivers, BSODs are rare.
> In Vista if an application crashes, it doesn't crashes the whole OS.
> Driver & app incompability are the responsibility for 3rd party  vendors to solve who are the creators of these.
> You do not need to download the file copy hotfix cos the problem is
> ...


 Its time that even the cheapest and useless edition of VISTA to also include aero!!
Besides, people encounter BSODs with windows bundled drivers too. U mean they r not WHQL? Tell them to improve their sorry state and make something that works out of box without needing any update!
Too bad people waited for SP2 in Xp case for frustration decrease/life improvement and a hotfix for 'file delete' problem in case of VISTA to have a workable OS!

Tell them to improve their development and test cases, so that  simple thing like 'file delete' that shud have been rectified in alpha  testing itself shudn't occur any more!! Now shud I give suggestions   for that too on how to code file delete procedure? 



> Microsoft gave ISVs Vista beta already before launching to fix there
> 
> apps. It is there responsibility. Microsoft even provides compability
> 
> ...


 I see everybody is to be blamed save MS! I see...good logic!! May be they shud create some how to/tutorial telling other companies and developers on 'how to code/ wat not to do' since they cannot tell directly "Wat to do"!! Poor developers and other companies! 



> PowerShell was released after Vista. Microsoft lacks a time machine to
> 
> bundle it in Vista RTM before powershell was released. It is available
> 
> ...


 Since they can release XP+SP2 CDs for their crappy/buggy/not working original Xp CDs as alternatives, then y can't they  release anotha like such for VISTA student editions or absurd 'stripped down' editions!



> Powershell was released after Vista was launched, Vista is an OS for
> 
> home usage so it makes no sense to include PowerShell. If you need it
> 
> ...


 U think OS is all bt movies and songs? Increase ur OS knowledge. U don't even know that standards OS have GUI working on the top of kernel!! Learn about OS first and it will make sense to u!!



> A student can buy a student license for Vista Home premium for about
> 
> $100 easily in USA which includes support for Aero. I m sorry I cannot
> 
> do anything about your ignorance.


 A 'stripped down' license copy of an insane $150+ that activates on just 10 different computers with 'file delete' problem needing an internet connection for hotfix since autopatcher has been abandoned by them and anotha student edition that doesn't includes AERO? Be reasonable and tell MS to be the same! I hope the AERO on home edition  isn't 'stripped down'!

'Stripping' and 'teasing' the users all the way!! 
Tell MS to include options from next time and forward these suggestion without processing from ur brain! Who knows MS might listen!




> Powershell is a product made for Powerusers & admins who get
> 
> documentation with it when the download it.
> 
> Do not expect me to reply to you unnecessary troll. Sorry.


 Now say VISTA isn't for admins and power users, thus doesn't include power shell out of box, students don't need AERO etc!

Delivering VISTA much later than expected and still not giving  something expected and reasonable, but surprises like 'file delete' 
problem! I see, u really can't reply to my suggestions. Thus I 'm 
requesting u to forward it all to MS, without reading it and 
processing it from ur brains. Let them answer which obviosly U can't, u just can't!!




> Why?


 So that we can acknowledge if u deserve to use windows, MS-office and 

all 3rd party stuff!!


Tell em the scenario in INDIA, how poor we r and thus be reasonable  and deliver quality stuff ON TIME! SImple suggestion isn't it?

And please stop ur whinings bt troll and reporting. This is fight club first of all and anyone can see on behalf of the thread u created that I'm simply fulfilling what u asked. So stop crying now and discuss quietly!

Reporting each n evry thread since past few days. Is it ur new trend or u got some authority here as friend?


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

Mediator, your post is a troll attempt & irrelevant to this thread. I  m not explaining same thing again & again here. You got questions ask in software troubleshooting section.


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

i hope this thread reaches microsoft.this thread is about microsoft so i also want something for my phone-i m not happy when everything goes washed away if i run out of battery.this is something really p.i.t.a.also want windows (PC) to stop running all background things (as it happens while running games in vista) when some cpu hungry app is run.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> this thread is about microsoft so i also want something for my phone-i m not happy when everything goes washed away if i run out of battery.


 Which phone is that?



> also want windows (PC) to stop running all background things (as it happens while running games in vista) when some cpu hungry app is run.


When you run a game in Windows with the tag "game" Windows sets the exe to high priority & all your background apps like Virus etc are stopped.

When u install a game in Vista just drag the icon of "Game Explorer" & Vista will automatically download game info from the net for it & set it accordingly.

Any game developer who is making a new game like say upcoming crysis, they can simply add some info or tag to the game exe to tell Vista that this exe is a game. This is a feature of DirectX 10.


----------



## mediator (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mediator, your post is a troll attempt & irrelevant to this thread. I  m not explaining same thing again & again here. You got questions ask in software troubleshooting section.


 This has nuthing to do with trouble shooting but suggestions. Come and discuss when u can comprehend other's post well or when ur absurd fanboyism diminishes to be atleast understanding that this is bt MS where YOU started talking bt Apple and Mac OS X!!

Sheesh I dint even report that! Neways its ur wish, u started this noble thread and talked bt Apple and MAc OS X. I'm just entertaining ur request so tht MS sees u as an honest MVP!! 



> i hope this thread reaches microsoft.this thread is about microsoft so i also want something for my phone-i m not happy when everything goes washed away if i run out of battery.this is something really p.i.t.a.also want windows (PC) to stop running all background things (as it happens while running games in vista) when some cpu hungry app is run.


 U r hoping against hope! I guess this thread was created as a result of  another thread created by some fellow member telling how Linux is being accepted by the world as Desktop that too in large numbers apart from Servers and thus to tell MS that they need to do something quick bt it!

But any suggestions remotely against MS are hard to swallow by their, oh well, all understand with their fanboyism reaching to such  an extent that they have started reporting it every single time! It will reach MS only if it doesn't get processed by some MVP's brain here acting as a mediator in between!


----------



## nish_higher (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Which phone is that?


 the gr8 i-mate  
btw i want windows to stop all background services like in games when run sum program.maybe thats a direct x feature but why cant it b done to any other thing-apps.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

nish_higher said:
			
		

> btw i want windows to stop all background services like in games when run sum program.maybe thats a direct x feature but why cant it b done to any other thing-apps.



Windows Vista automatically gives priority to application at the top level at which u r working, so in most cases this is not required.

If it is about a particular program u r talking about like say u wanna run NishPlayer  like this then simply open task manager, right click on the name of the exe for NishPlayer & set the priority to high. Do not set it to real time cos that won't be required.


----------



## iMav (Sep 8, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> You shud just forward our suggestions without using ur brains as a  processing box in between!


 i guess a few like the 1s quoted here can be skipped


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Its time that even the cheapest and useless edition of VISTA to also include aero!!


 aero is an addon and at times i have read ppl saying that we dont want eye candy we want the OS to wrk and be fast etc etc and there fore i find having versions that dont have aero is good .... there are buyers who want it so its there


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Besides, people encounter BSODs with windows bundled drivers too. U mean they r not WHQL? Tell them to improve their sorry state and make something that works out of box without needing any update!


 o!dude how i wonder if all of us could know the future .... man i seriously hope that MS gets some kind of a crytal ball that will tell them what hard ware is gonna be released in the next 10 years and then they can make sure that it works with their OS until then i guess we will have to update ... hmmmm im waiting for my updated linux cds also .... it takes a lot time for the cds to reach 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Too bad people waited for SP2 in Xp case for frustration decrease/life improvement and a hotfix for 'file delete' problem in case of VISTA to have a workable OS!


  and i thought the proverb 'no 1 is perfect' holds true ... maybe not in the case of mediator ... ur urge to see MS windows be perfect is really commendable


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Tell them to improve their development and test cases, so that  simple thing like 'file delete' that shud have been rectified in alpha  testing itself shudn't occur any more!! Now shud I give suggestions   for that too on how to code file delete procedure?


 i got a suggestion why dont u apply for a job at MS and help em coz as ur implying ur knowledge of coding superscedes MS employees u wud be an asset to the company ... or even if u dont want to u cudv tested the betas ...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I see everybody is to be blamed save MS! I see...good logic!! May be they shud create some how to/tutorial telling other companies and developers on 'how to code/ wat not to do' since they cannot tell directly "Wat to do"!! Poor developers and other companies!


 makes no sense to me 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Since they can release XP+SP2 CDs for their crappy/buggy/not working original Xp CDs as alternatives, then y can't they  release anotha like such for VISTA student editions or absurd 'stripped down' editions!


XP+SP2  yaar ... sp2 aaya toh cds aayi abhi vista sp1 aayega toh uski bhi cd aayegi yaar ...  mediator u do hav a sense of humor


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> A 'stripped down' license copy of an insane $150+ that activates on just 10 different computers with 'file delete' problem needing an internet connection for hotfix since autopatcher has been abandoned by them and anotha student edition that doesn't includes AERO? Be reasonable and tell MS to be the same! I hope the AERO on home edition  isn't 'stripped down'!


 aero is an eye candy feature ... its presence is just for enhancing and beatufying the looks of the pc .... be same to all  ... if u want aero so freagin desparately coz get urself a version that has aero ... its not like vista has 10 version w/o aero and 1 with aero ...

as far as the file delete issue is concerned ... i used vista w/o the hot fix the only problem i faced was that moving deleting files took a lil longer ... thats all i dont see how that makes an OS un-usable ...



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Delivering VISTA much later than expected and still not giving  something expected and reasonable, but surprises like 'file delete'
> problem!


 on the contrary Vista's release was made earlier than wen MS wanted to


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Tell em the scenario in INDIA, how poor we r and thus be reasonable  and deliver quality stuff ON TIME! SImple suggestion isn't it?


price reduction ... the point has been noted on more than 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 occassions and deliver stuff on time ... go to the store pick up the dvd pay the money and its urs ... i dont think Vista's availability is an issue


----------



## saurabh kakkar (Sep 8, 2007)

change MICROSOFT to Linux  nd VISTA to any LINUX DISRO prefered Ubuntu 

thats is small change but big impact


----------



## iMav (Sep 8, 2007)

and name all ubuntu distros as vista editions ...


----------



## saurabh kakkar (Sep 8, 2007)

^^ ha ha Good one


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

> A 'stripped down' license copy of an insane $150+ that activates on just 10 different computers with 'file delete' problem needing an internet connection for hotfix since autopatcher has been abandoned by them and anotha student edition that doesn't includes AERO? Be reasonable and tell MS to be the same! I hope the AERO on home edition isn't 'stripped down'


The Home premium Edition is the 2nd topmost Vista Edition available. Its not stripped down in any manner.

When you buy Windows you buy to use it on one computer. If you don't like this then no one is stopping u from using Linux. 

All software have bugs. What r u comparing this file delete bug to? Ubuntu also has bugs & they are also silly sometimes which are updated via thre update system too.

There are alternatives to Autopatcher which can be used offline. Have a look at this thread.

There is no student edition with this name. Its just Home premium retail one which students can buy at a reduced cost.

Aero is same all over Windows Vista.

I have tried explaining a lot to you, its really worthless to tell u something cos u want to argue which I don't want in this thread.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> All software have bugs. What r u comparing this file delete bug to? Ubuntu also has bugs & they are also silly sometimes which are updated via thre update system too.


a basic ubuntu distro is completely usable out of the box. i'm not replying to this point coz i use ubuntu also, but coz that really is the case.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Fellow members I ask you, IE 7 is a product made by MS, shouldn't MS be allowed to bundle what they want with it.?


 NO, since there are better comptt. products out there. if ie7 wasn't bundled wid windows then there wudn't be a problem intergrating it wid live search. but this is not the case.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Which Windows XP update is 500 MB? SP2 was 265 MB.


 yes dude. its almost 500mb of updates after sp2!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ubuntu installation is 700 MB ISO, & You need to download a 700 MB ISO again if u want to upgrade from one version to another.


 we are talking about OS updates and NOT OS UPGRADES! in that case, win xp was about 550mb.. and vista is about 2.6gb. so to "upgrade from one version to another" i hafta download 2.6gb??!!! that too widout any software, jus the OS???? (plz dun start again that MS can't bundle this and that, we are not talking about that point).



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Now, if u r fed up of *updating your OS for new features* then........i have nothing to say


 windows updates provides new features??!!! huh?? when? where?? how???

@GX
you've created this thread and are asking about what changes ppl wud like to see in MS. so going by what u intend, u need to forward them to MS and not intervene in between. are you the chief technology officer for MS products that u decide here itself on this forum which suggestions can be implemented and which can't be? send the list to them and post the official replies here and plz stop asking users a method for every suggestion. we don't want WGA coz its a PITA for genuine users. thats it! its out suggestion. now how MS will consider this suggestion is upto them and NOT our headache!

i say it again, the only way to reduce piracy is to educate the users and lower the prices (i now its been noted many times). WGA is NOT a tool for preventing piracy. GO READ MS' OWN words. WGA is an EDUCATIONAL tool released by them to notify users about the genuineness of the software. no matter what MS will do try to prevent piracy, it'll be overcome. coz there are smarter ppl out there. so why trouble genuine users then? educate ppl!

i don't haf a problem wid any of their product (except the dreaded WGA), but i haf problems wid the business ethics of this company. i understand they are out there to do business, but there is a limit to everything. and these unethical acts are, in the end, affecting the end users. thats all i'm unhappy about!


----------



## iMav (Sep 8, 2007)

^^ bus itni si baat aur itna rona ...


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 8, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> @GX
> you've created this thread and are asking about what changes ppl wud like to see in MS. so going by what u intend, u need to forward them to MS and not intervene in between.



I m forwarding these to apropriate MS departmends cos MVP can do this.



> we don't want WGA coz its a PITA for genuine users. thats it! its out suggestion. now how MS will consider this suggestion is upto them and NOT our headache!



Point has been noted.



> i understand they are out there to do business, but there is a limit to everything. and these unethical acts are, in the end, affecting the end users. thats all i'm unhappy about!



What would u like to change then?


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 8, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I m forwarding these to apropriate MS departmends cos MVP can do this.


ThanQ 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Point has been noted.


ThanQ again, 




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What would u like to change then?


Live and let live


----------



## iMav (Sep 9, 2007)

biusiness usool no. 1 kill ur competition


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 9, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> biusiness usool no. 1 kill ur competition


Business usool No.1 SP1: Kill your competition wid a better product!


----------



## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

ImaV said:
			
		

> aero is an addon and at times i have read ppl saying that we dont want eye candy we want the OS to wrk and be fast etc etc and there fore i find having versions that dont have aero is good .... there are buyers who want it so its there


 At times, no plenty of times I have read people discussing how pathetic windows is, how crappy IE is and how useless Disk defragment etc is! Wat do u think similarly? They shud be removed and its good if its not there? 

I agree eye candy is usless, and it eats performance and memory. But which age category do u think really needs AERO? Why has MS created Aero? The WOW is needed by children and the whole young generation which likes candy and eye candy. Thus Aero shud be bundled with student edition! This is a simple suggestion that shudn't be ignored!

I hope concerned MVPs dont troll in between now coz they gave up already routing simple suggestions to MS and randomly talking bt Apple and Mac OSX and thus disrutping smooth flow of discussion!!



> o!dude how i wonder if all of us could know the future .... man i seriously hope that MS gets some kind of a crytal ball that will tell them what hard ware is gonna be released in the next 10 years and then they can make sure that it works with their OS until then i guess we will have to update ... hmmmm im waiting for my updated linux cds also .... it takes a lot time for the cds to reach


 I was talkin bt old hardware itself coz anybody in tech world knows that OS has drivers for hardware released before its date of release!! No crystal ball, but only improved developing and coding practises is what MS needs and ethics to test things correctly and ethics to conduct business properly without hurting atleast the users!! This is again a suggestion to improve and tell MS that it wud be doomed if it continues like this if not now then may be 50 years hence!!



> and i thought the proverb 'no 1 is perfect' holds true ... maybe not in the case of mediator ... ur urge to see MS windows be perfect is really commendable


 Perfect is what I'm working on. I'm still working on fedora 5 without any updates as of yet that came with OOO, messenger, image editing software etc out of box!!

But I was trying to 'suggest' something in this thread as asked. I'm glad u appreciate it and, if had read the whole thread, understand it!!



> i got a suggestion why dont u apply for a job at MS and help em coz as ur implying ur knowledge of coding superscedes MS employees u wud be an asset to the company ... or even if u dont want to u cudv tested the betas ...


 I wud love to! U may discuss that with Shantanu! There is something called 'contructive criticism' and if some fanboy can't understand that and constipates over it, then it becomes nuthing more than entertaining!

Even if I get a job somehow in MS, then also I wont quit thinking logically and rationally! ATleast I wud quit the advertising job in MS, but give my suggestions/contructive criticisms. Bill gates is a nice man and I am sure he wud understand if some person really wants to code/work logically and raise levels of its company and not reduce it by spreading FUDs and illogical crap all around!!



> makes no sense to me


 Ur sense level is none of concern. U might be realising how the whole forum sees u......don't mind but 'chotte nawab' or some junior or a second to an MS fanboy?
This is what I gathered by reading other's replies! So read the whole thread from start unbiasedly, might make some sense to u!!



> XP+SP2  yaar ... sp2 aaya toh cds aayi abhi vista sp1 aayega toh uski bhi cd aayegi yaar ...  mediator u do hav a sense of humor


 And wat else M I saying? To just bundle the options in the VISTA-SP1 cds. Read the whole thread bt wat options me n other people suggesting!!




> as far as the file delete issue is concerned ... i used vista w/o the hot fix the only problem i faced was that moving deleting files took a lil longer ... thats all i dont see how that makes an OS un-usable ...


  Read the thread from the start!



> on the contrary Vista's release was made earlier than wen MS wanted to


 *www.techdirt.com/articles/20060321/1710238.shtml


Dont mind but it wud be better if u dont post in this thread!






			
				gx said:
			
		

> The Home premium Edition is the 2nd topmost Vista Edition available. Its not stripped down in any manner.
> 
> When you buy Windows you buy to use it on one computer. If you don't like this then no one is stopping u from using Linux.
> 
> ...


 Again not sticking to the title of this thread? Do have alzheimers that u keep forgetting what this thread is all abt?


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

> And wat else M I saying? To just bundle the options in the VISTA-SP1 cds.


Ok, will u let Vista SP1 release first?



> Again not sticking to the title of this thread? Do have alzheimers that u keep forgetting what this thread is all abt?


You are saying, Aero is not there in Student while it is there. I just tried clearing your misconception which was a worthless try.



> Thus Aero shud be bundled with student edition!



* HOW MANY TIME DO I TO MAKE CLEAR HERE THAT AERO IS ALREADY INCLUDED IN HOME PREMIUM EDITION WHICH ANY STUDENT CAN BUY VIA A STUDENT LICENSE IN USA FOR MUCH LOWER COST THEN RETAIL EDITION OF HOME PREMIUM. .

*I don't want to loose my calm here but u r irritating & frustrating. I have mentioned it 10 times here already but If you have a problem in reading then sorry, I can't help here & include your suggestions


----------



## iMav (Sep 9, 2007)

@ mediator

i dont mind playing second fiddle to some 1 who has knowledge more than me be it about linux or mac or windows ... 

iv been following this thread from the beginning and the day others' opinions about me start bothering me i think that wud be the day of my doom  ....


----------



## infra_red_dude (Sep 9, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ok, will u let Vista SP1 release first?


no, u got it wrong. bundle it wid sp1 release.


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> no, u got it wrong. bundle it wid sp1 release.



Thats why i m running this thread


----------



## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

> Ok, will u let Vista SP1 release first?


 Wat was that? U mean I shud suggest afterwards? We r here to make suggestions and u to forwards them just like Digit feedback and desire section!




> You are saying, Aero is not there in Student while it is there. I just tried clearing your misconception which was a worthless try.


 U tried to comprehend again  but alas failed miserably  I guess that was a worthless try!!

My point was simple and straight forward, to put AERO in all such less priced, "strippy, teasy" Windows VISTA versions that are for home use and students i.e for end-users and young generation!!



> We recommend upgraders stay away from Vista Home Basic simply because of its l*ack of key Vista features like Aero, XP migration, unlimited screen resolution support, fast user switching, Media Center components, games, and more.*


 *pocketpccentral.net/help/vista_brief.htm 

Do u want me to put here in forums wat all limitations r there? I guess thats ur job to enlighten usand enhance VISTA sales! 




			
				Imav said:
			
		

> i dont mind playing second fiddle to some 1 who has knowledge more than me be it about linux or mac or windows ...
> 
> iv been following this thread from the beginning and the day others' opinions about me start bothering me i think that wud be the day of my doom


 Thats ok! I'm glad u dont take anything in forums personally, but try not to act like a fanboy coz it will waste only ur time, u know how, and eat only ur brains! If u had followed the thread from the start, then u wud have understood everything before making me repeat! 

It was suggestions that I started from and its suggestions on which I'm maintaining my stand! The thread creator shud just forward such suggestions and post the replies back in here instead giving his sagely opinions. Don't u agree?


----------



## iMav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Thats ok! I'm glad u dont take anything in forums personally


 i dont and i expect others also to reciprocate the same towards to me more often


----------



## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

Thats more like it! And now see Gx updated his post, with his absurd comprehension!! NOw, Why wont he get frustrated?


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> My point was simple and straight forward, to put AERO in all such less priced, "strippy, teasy" Windows VISTA versions that are for home use and students i.e for end-users and young generation!!



*Aero is not included in Home basic & starter edition*. *These are not targeted at students*. These are targeted at low cost low end PCs which cannot run aero anyway due to lack of graphics card. If they later on buy a graphics card, they can simply express upgrade to Home Premium.

I don't know the exect price for this but for a student edition of home basic it is about $60 + $45 upgrade to Home premium Student edition if required. These are same as retail editions with nothing removed.

Starter edition is made for India etc, & yup...point has already been noted.


----------



## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

But u do appreciate that its for end-users isn't it? People with high end hardware might also like to buy Home basic if it costs less, so it shud also include AERO. I hope starter edition will also have aero. If not then note and put it up in suggestion filter of ur mailbox and tell MS to include AERO in starter edition and full support for mulimedia and games!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> People with high end hardware might also like to buy Home basic if it costs less



Why? The difference between Home Basic & Home premium is just $50. You spend more then that on a date in USA. U don't want to use Aero on such a high end system .

You find Home basic cheap, you yourself mentioned its flawed points but forgot mention the cost effective points. U want aero on Vista Home basic, buy WindowBlinds for $20 which provides 3rd party skinning & use whatever theme u like along with aero. Even I prefer buying Home premium & then buying Windowsblind. *I myself find Ultimate useless over Home Premium*



> so it shud also include AERO.



You want Aero on such a high end system, get Home premium.



> I hope starter edition will also have aero.



I cannot give it as a feedback cos starter edition is made for low end PCs which can't run aero anyway. It has full support for multimedia already.


----------



## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

> Why? The difference between Home Basic & Home premium is just $50. You spend more then that *on a date in USA*. U don't want to use Aero on such a high end system


 Why do u keep murmering USA so frequently? The whole world isn't USA and I hope u know VISTA isn't limited to just USA!!

About Aero and systems, its users choice which version they shud buy! End-Users obviously tend to buy the cheapest version, that works. Ths kids want something amazing in that! So naturally AERO shud be included in all version aimed for end-users, families, kids and students!! Its so obvious! Instead of arguing, just note it down, forward and do ur paid job!




> You find Home basic cheap, you yourself mentioned its flawed points but forgot mention the cost effective points. U want aero on Vista Home basic, buy WindowBlinds for $20 which provides 3rd party skinning & use whatever theme u like along with aero. Even I prefer buying Home premium & then buying Windowsblind. I myself find Ultimate useless over Home Premium


 U may suggest that to MS also about why u find "Ultimate useless over Home Premium" n enlighten us y u find it useless!! And if we r to buy everything that is 3rd party then why even to use VISTA?? World shud simply switch to Linux and other such operating systems!

Can't the world have the honour to use MS products reasonably??



> You want Aero on such a high end system, get Home premium.


 And suggest MS to stop making such confusing names for their versions and use some brains next time! Its HOME, BUSINESS, PROfessional etc. NOW they categorised HOME also and made a new hierarchy so that people get confused even more?

We talked about HOME edition from start, then u talked bt premium and I bt BASIC. How Absurd! Does the student,ultimate,profession (if any) versions also have some hierarchy?

So yes, we want Home edition. Suggest them to remove premium and BAsic crap out of it and include Aero in it with some options in the install stage as I talked before!!



> I cannot give it as a feedback cos starter edition is made for low end PCs which can't run aero anyway. It has full support for multimedia already.


 Thats terrible! Then suggest em to optimize the WOW for low end systems! Obviously when speaking of low, I talk bt the sytems with atleast 1Ghz speed and 128 MB RAM and not PIIs with 266 Mhz & 32 MB RAM i.e the Aero shud be Njoyed by as many end-users in the world!!


----------



## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> About Aero and systems, its users choice which version they shud buy! End-Users obviously tend to buy the cheapest version, that works. Ths kids want something amazing in that! So naturally AERO shud be included in all version aimed for end-users, families, kids and students!! Its so obvious! Instead of arguing, just note it down, forward and do ur paid job!



I m not paid to do this job, & I have already mentioned the feedback to kill Home basic all  together. Just for u to know, Vista Home premium OEM editions costs even low, just $112.



> U may suggest that to MS also about why u find "Ultimate useless over Home Premium" n enlighten us y u find it useless!!



Personal preference. Most of the home users will not need the features of Ultimate edition over Home premium edition.



> And suggest MS to stop making such confusing names for their versions and use some brains next time! Its HOME, BUSINESS, PROfessional etc. NOW they categorised HOME also and made a new hierarchy so that people get confused even more?



Point noted. Have a look at post 1



> So yes, we want Home edition. Suggest them to remove premium and BAsic crap out of it and include Aero in it with some options in the install stage as I talked before!!



Didn't I say that aero is already there in Home Premium



> Thats terrible! Then suggest em to optimize the WOW for low end systems!



Already Done.


> Obviously when speaking of low, I talk bt the sytems with atleast 1Ghz speed and 128 MB RAM



Minimum requirment for Vista Home premium = 1 GHz CPU with 512 MB RAM & DX 9 gfx card cos Aero is an all GPU based UI.


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## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

gx said:
			
		

> I m not paid to do this job, & I have already mentioned the feedback to kill Home basic all together. Just for u to know, Vista Home premium OEM editions costs even low, just *$112.*


 And what was that bragging bt?.......


			
				gx said:
			
		

> I don't know the exect price for this but for a student edition of home basic it is about *$60 + $45* upgrade to Home premium Student edition if required. These are same as retail editions with nothing removed.


Since u r talking bt OEMs, then look for prices in here 
*$75, $93.99, $99* etc.


And from the source u had put, here's a small excerpt from it!



			
				sourcebygx said:
			
		

> About Home premium
> 
> Cons: They say this OS was built from the ground up? uh huh, right... That's why *I am still discovering some of the SAME EXACT Bugs that XP had, plus some that XP doesn't have... What's up with that? At least XP saved window, icon and other settings correctly. Also, I can't set refresh rate over 60Hz on my crt monitor at 1920x1200... When using XP I was able to set it at 75Hz at 1920x1200... Why is this? I have all the correct drivers installed*.... Uuurrrgh! People want LESS problems, duh!
> Other Thoughts: I installed this OS on a newer PC with a fresh clean HDD. Why O' why, MicroFart! *It seems that MS put more work into trying to make it look better, rather than making it more compatible, functional and bugless... I write A.S. codes in Flash, and I understand that writing codes can be a pain, but come' on, for the latest OS, it's just a little pathetic*... I'M DISAPPOINTED! They should of worked on it longer. *My PC Specs: Core 2 E6600, 2GB XMS2 800, ASUS P5N32-SLI, 8800GTS 640MB, SB Audigy2, 750w PSU w/ active PFC. ......Nothing is over-clocked. (why stress your system?)* -rjflash


 So please, also give this little feedback to MS and suggest them to make the lives of their users atleast a little relaxed! The bolded parts r enought to ponder bt!!




> Personal preference. Most of the home users will not need the features of Ultimate edition over Home premium edition.


 Please dont think all users r like u interested in mulitmedia stuff only. many have the habit to explore the OS and might be needing the features of Ultimate and fancy stuff like Aero at a reasoable price!! 

Suggestion: Tell MS to conduct a poll and ask what end-users want and r fond of fiddling with, wat there desires r n then to bundle them appropriately in HOME BASIC and other 'strippy teasy' version!



> Point noted. Have a look at post 1


 Good! Do the same for the rest and post the MS replies here!



> Didn't I say that aero is already there in Home Premium


 First remove the term 'premium' and replace it with 'Basic'. Now overall remove both craps and put end-users, kids desires in it..things ike powershell, aero, virtual stuff etc!!



> Minimum requirment for Vista Home premium = 1 GHz CPU with 512 MB RAM & DX 9 gfx card cos Aero is an all GPU based UI.


 Obviously I'm not talking bt a crawling sytem which increases the users frutration in which even notepad takes years to open! Be reasonable!


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## sms_solver (Sep 9, 2007)

Next version of windows should do away with Registry. A good alternative of it has to be developed.


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## iMav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator ... ultimate was a version released by MS and sold under the pretext that they will have a lot of addons that will be released later specifically for vista ultimate .... thats the only difference and 1 noteworthy addon is dreamscene other than that its pretty much the same as home premium .... yaar aero is not specific to ultimate only ... home basic is the only version that doesnt have aero

i wud request u to go thru this page please:

*www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx?wt_svl=10033WHa1&mg_id=10033WHb1

and there are only 4 versions of vista and they have beenm nicely differentiated considering the market variety


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## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

U know my stand, so I wont repeat! U know what users want, the little review from gx's source is enough for u to have 2nd thought!! And isolating a single version from AERO is nuthing less than foolish!! Its a suggestion nuthing to argue bt!!


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## shantanu (Sep 9, 2007)

@gx : you started the thread for which purpose ?

having ideas or creating wars.. ?

the thread is in fight club, tat means that you wanted flame wars. ? 
then thread isnt solving its purpose.. you guys are just flaming, and this is serious BS man... ! and others.. if you can just stay to topic rather than arguing.. and fighting. ! and why are you asking GX like he owns M$.. he is doing a job to relate your points and post them for feedback.. you guys should provide valid points which you want changed.. not what most of you are doing.. !


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## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> @gx : you started the thread for which purpose ?



Having ideas which i m constantly adding to the first page & sending to MS feedback.



> why are you asking GX like he owns M$.. he is doing a job to relate your points and post them for feedback.. you guys should provide valid points which you want changed.. not what most of you are doing.. !



Thanx. I just tried mentioning to Mediator why there are a few things MS can't do which he refuces to listen.



> many have the habit to explore the OS and might be needing the features of Ultimate and fancy stuff like Aero at a reasoable price!!



You can explore all you need in home premium too, plz take a look at post 1 of this thread comparing Ultimate edition & Home premium edition & you will come to know why I prefer Home Premium over Ultimate. There are only 3 differences which do not apply to 99% home users, so they get it for cheap. If you want to explore you always have the option for Windows Anytime upgrade to ultimate edition at a very low cost.



> powershell



Whose gonna use Powershell in Home . If you want it is given via Windows  Update easily. Powershell wll be included in Vista SP1



			
				SMS_solver said:
			
		

> Next version of windows should do away with Registry. A good alternative of it has to be developed.



Point noted. However I don't think this will be removed, registry is machine language & a unified database. I m forwarding the point but don't expect MS to listen to me about this, cos registry works fine.


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## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

> Whose gonna use Powershell in Home . If you want it is given via Windows Update easily. Powershell wll be included in Vista SP1


 Ofcors not people like u, but those who r interested in OS, kids who wanna learn more. Thats y I tell again n again not to process my suggestions using ur brains. It gets stuck in a deadlock again n again and u show BSODs here! Just forward it!



> I m forwarding the point but don't expect MS to listen to me about this, cos registry works fine.


 Thats what me n others were requesting from the  start. Just forward it, and leave it to MS!!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Ofcors not people like u, but those who r interested in OS, kids who wanna learn more.


Sure, I agree. Isn't PowerShell already available via Windows Update.

There is no point giving MS feedback to this because PowerShell is already available.

Now, you will say include it in Vista. Plz give MS a time machine so that they can include this in Vista SKU released in November 2006 for manufacturing.

Windows Vista SP1 is about to release. PowerShell will be included in it. When SP1 releases MS will change the SKU & all the boxes of DVD which come out of manufacturing plant will have SP1 integrated which means PowerShell out of the box.

So, I hope I made myself clear why I cannot give this stupid feedback of yours


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## mediator (Sep 9, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure, I agree. Isn't PowerShell already available via Windows Update.
> 
> There is no point giving MS feedback to this because PowerShell is already available.
> 
> ...


Oh, I see someone might have already given such 'stupid' suggestion/feedback to include powershell in SP1 to some intelligent MVP in some other forum n thats y MS must be bundling it.
I sympathise with the sorry state of few MVPs in this forum!!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 10, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Oh, I see someone might have already given such 'stupid' suggestion/feedback to include powershell in SP1 to some intelligent MVP in some other forum n thats y MS must be bundling it.
> I sympathise with the sorry state of few MVPs in this forum!!



What should we interpret with this? Isn't this offensive.

Powershell was stated to be released with Vista but it was not ready at the time of Vista.


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## praka123 (Sep 10, 2007)

btwn windows powershell seems interesting....but the question is how many windows users are able to use this? ..nd where is winfs?is it coming with SP1?


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## gxsaurav (Sep 10, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> but the question is how many windows users are able to use this?



Taken from Windows Powershell download page



			
				Microsoft said:
			
		

> Windows PowerShell 1.0 RTW currently supports Windows XP Service Pack 2, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008



WinFS is being actively developed but integration into the Windows codebase will come only after the technology has fully incubated


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## din (Sep 10, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> and why are you asking GX like he owns M$..


Offtopic ...

LOL, did not want to post in this thread but can't resist 

Shan, can't blame the poor 'others' as you can see GX is *strongly* support MS whenever and wherever he get a chance and making confirmations on behalf of MS. So others might be thinking hes someway related to MS.

Now even if GX announce hes not an employee of MS or he does not own MS, I sm sure there will be some

*OMG !! We always thought you are someway related to MS *


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## mediator (Sep 10, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What should we interpret with this? Isn't this offensive.
> 
> Powershell was stated to be released with Vista but it was not ready at the time of Vista.


 Yea, too bad VISTA released much later than expected and then not having wat was expected! Poor business practices! BUt neways now we have a suggestion thread, I hope everything'll be phine!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 11, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> Yea, too bad VISTA released much later than expected and then not having wat was expected! Poor business practices!



The whole Windows longhorn source code which was based on Windows XP SP2 code was scrapped in favor of Windows Server 2003 code in 2004. So overall it only took 3 years to make the version of Windows we see today.


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## mediator (Sep 11, 2007)

Doesn't matter how much time it took if within the limits! They delivered late and delivered less than expected. Thats what matters!

Client asks me to deliver a software in 10 days! I make in 1 day, without doing any software testing etc and boast that I did make in one day. But wats the use if I deliver it late to them than expected and not adhering to clients requirements?

This is wat happens when u don't follow proper coding and business practices! U get a 'file delete' problem that shud have been rectified or shud I say, shud   have not even been there in alpha testing stage and lacking functionalities like Power Shell etc, 'Out-of-Box' and those in the review in the source provided by u!!

Maybe u shud read what software engineering is and what r best practices!!

Too much Big talk and no show!!


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## goobimama (Sep 11, 2007)

One more thing:

A PROPER administrator account...

Aaaah! This one is a huge annoyance. 

I plug in a pen drive, and open an explorer window to browse the pen drive. Then, after some time when I'm done, and I try to eject the drive, it says its still in use. Then I have to manually close those explorer windows and eject it again.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 11, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> A PROPER administrator account...



Vista took away the concept of a Super Do All admin. There were some system restriction for which it is required to be a super admin, else a standard admin shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Example - Deleting C:\Windows\system32\drivers

Still if u want you can use the true administrator account in Vista like the one in XP.

This feedback cannot be given cos the problem is already fixed.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> The *whole* *Windows longhorn source code* which was based on *Windows XP SP2 code was scrapped* in favor of Windows Server 2003 code in 2004. So overall it only took 3 years to make the version of Windows we see today.


point 1) was the "whole" code scrapped?
point 2) was it ever based on windows xp sp2????
can you point me to a link which supports this? i really wanna read it now. very much interested 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Vista took away the concept of a *Super Do All admin.* There were some system restriction for which it is required to be a super admin, else a *standard admin* shouldn't be allowed to do it.


an ADMIN is an ADMIN is an ADMIN and all ADMINs are ADMINs!!!! what is a "super do all admin"??? and whats a "standard admin"?????  

@everyone
i guess we must STOP it now. let GX give the feedback to MS and then report back first. then we may continue. otherwise it'll be too much for MS to consider and Vista SP1 will again be delayed!!! 

@GX
sir, plz forward all that you've compiled on the first page of this thread to MS. do not modify or twist anything. send it to them and post the OFFICIAL reply here. someone told me that MS takes 6 hours for a reply to a common man and much lesser to an MVP. but its ok. we'll all wait FOR A DAY for the reply. go ahead GX


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## praka123 (Sep 11, 2007)

^also link this thread too  as for where the suggestions came!


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 11, 2007)

^^^ we wanna see an OFFICIAL reply.... thats all!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 11, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> point 1) was the "whole" code scrapped?
> point 2) was it ever based on windows xp sp2????
> can you point me to a link which supports this? i really wanna read it now. very much interested



Sure, here u go



> When Windows Vista development originally started in 2001, however, it was then based on Windows XP. In mid-2004, Microsoft had to restart the core development of Windows Vista because it was too hard to go back and componentize the existing Windows Vista core code. So when it restarted Windows Vista development, Microsoft naturally used the Windows Server 2003 with SP1 code base instead of that of XP.






> an ADMIN is an ADMIN is an ADMIN and all ADMINs are ADMINs!!!! what is a "super do all admin"??? and whats a "standard admin"?????



Its like Linux, u can do everything but for super admin things u need root access. Same here

I have forwarded this page & all the recomended feedback is written on page 1


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sure, here u go


 thanQ for the link  going thru that now.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Its like Linux, u can do everything but for super admin things u need root access. Same here


 sorry sir, u are completly mistaken. there is nothing like that in any OS. not even in widows!!! there is one and only one kind of admin. all others are either in some kind of limited account or the guest account.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I have forwarded this page & all the recomended feedback is written on page 1


 i'll just check out the first page of this thread too now  

edit: yes, fine.. you've nicely summerized the points  we are waiting for an official reply from MS now


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## gxsaurav (Sep 11, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> all others are either in some kind of limited account or the guest account.



There is Limited Admin in Vista, thats as far as I can explain. The real admin (Sabka baap ) is hidden in vista which u can unlock using this trick


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 11, 2007)

^^^ yes thats the only admin account in vista. which other admin account are you talking about? the same thing is there in XP/2k and all. the default admin account is the only account and its hidden from the logon screen.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 11, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> ^^^ yes thats the only admin account in vista.



Thats the super duper admin account in Vista with no restrictions on anything.

There is another standerd admin account in vista with few restrictions like the user I have

*img462.imageshack.us/img462/6260/snag0000kb0.jpg


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 11, 2007)

^^^ that is not "another kind of admin" account. that is a user belonging to the admin group! there is one and only one admin account!!!! the thing you are talking about is just an implementation of UAC on an admin group account. what happens if you disable UAC? aren't you able to "super do" all things on this account of urs??! 

edit: that was a nice read GX  i thot vista was always based on windows server 2003.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 17, 2007)

Hello GX bhai....

We all are still waiting for MS' reply......


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## piyush gupta (Sep 17, 2007)

There shoould be a option for "Use these settings for future" in Vista UAC so that each time we need not to say allow.


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## din (Sep 17, 2007)

@gx_saurav

Eventhough I am not using Vista rt now, would like to see the response from MS.

Please keep us posted.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 17, 2007)

GX GX GX GX GX...... GeeX... where are you????? its been a week now, since you supposedly submitted the requests to MS.....


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## Kiran.dks (Sep 17, 2007)

Make the price of products affordable.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 17, 2007)

yeah kiran, that point has already been taken into consideration (and prolly is the most suggested one!  ). we are waiting for the official reply from MS which GX's gonna post here.


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## mediator (Sep 17, 2007)

And no more Mandatory stuph please! Have mercy!


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 18, 2007)

ok GX.... no replies from you or MS... i'd heard that MS replies within 6 hours and even earlier to their MVPs. so this can mean:

1) you hafn't forwarded anything to MS. jus coz of the other thread you started this nonsense.
OR
2) you forwarded all the suggestions claiming as your own and got some reward from MS and hence not posting the specific reply by MS to you! 
OR
3) MS discriminates between MVPs. it doesn't give a damn! to MVPs like you! but treats other deserving, knowledgable MVPs like Saurav basu (choto cheeta), Anand, Shan and Vishal Gupta with respect.
OR
4) YOU ARE NOT AN MVP!!!

choose one from the above, you haf no other choice. don't make up replies and try to post now. there has been 10 PAGES of spamming in this forum due to this piece of sh!t.... its high time you admit it now!!! seriously, why are you hell bent on bringing a bad name to all the MVPs?????


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## praka123 (Sep 18, 2007)

^^^^ :d


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## iMav (Sep 18, 2007)

1 more thing ... a new folder shortcut in every folder be it music, pictures or vdo ...


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## din (Sep 18, 2007)

Hope GX will post the original reply from MS soon

Anyway here is my version of reply (yes, this is what I think  lol )



> Dear Gx,
> 
> Thank you for supporting MS everywhere when you get a chance. That is much appreciated. We received your email with the suggestions. They are really great but we have some limitations in implementing those. We are listing something for you
> 
> ...


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## mediator (Sep 18, 2007)

I am sure MS's reply will be havin the same md5.


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## The_Devil_Himself (Sep 18, 2007)

Will they really ship strippers with Vista?lols.The reply is perfect din.


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 18, 2007)

haha... what an anticipated reply! 

mods, plz close this nonsense thread, rather delete it. it'll relieve the forum database of some sh!t....

@GX
even when the whole forum condemned you of simply boasting, i thot otherwise. i did haf hopes from you. but now i see that i was wrong!


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## din (Sep 18, 2007)

I think his (GX) initiative was a good one. I appreaciate it. But from the reply he received from MS regarding the Autopatcher was a solid proof that - you may be MVP, you may be a strong supporter of MS, you may be MS employee but MS NEVER care anything that harms their business / ideas. They never give any over-importance either.

The email reply GX received is the same as any other guy got from MS (autopatcher one). It was very smilar to an auto response, they just change the country name etc and sent it to all !!!

Still, if theres any news from MS, please keep posted ...


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## gxsaurav (Sep 18, 2007)

I have given feedback to MS 2 times, first one was for the first 3 changes, then rest 5. All I got it in reply was "Thanx for the feedback, we would like to consider these changes in next version of our products. Please provide further feedback as applicable"

Vishal has a link on which anyone can provide feedback. I request him to post it here so that anyone can use it


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks for replying GX 



			
				GX said:
			
		

> "Thanx for the feedback, we would like to consider these changes in next version of our products. Please provide further feedback as applicable"


I really appreciate the fact that you've not tried to defend MS here and haf posted the actual reply 

As suspected, MS cares li'l about their MVPs. I think they should strike off the 'MV 'from the 'MVP' and make it MSP - Microsoft Professional. The 'most valued' term is meaningless there!


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## Kiran.dks (Sep 18, 2007)

I think Autopatcher issue is a real set back from MS. They should have continued endorsing mainly because there are many PC's which run without internet connection.


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## din (Sep 18, 2007)

Thanks GX, for posting the reply.

As your intention was good, I really hope they consider the suggestions as promised.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 18, 2007)

Kiran_tech_mania said:
			
		

> I think Autopatcher issue is a real set back from MS. They should have continued endorsing mainly because there are many PC's which run without internet connection.



 MS security pack ISO, Windows Updates in MSU or Exe packages that digit can provide freely. Does that rings a bell..


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 18, 2007)

i guess we can keep the autopatcher issue outta this thread. there's already one wid a whole lotta posts!


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## din (Sep 18, 2007)

@Kiran_tech_mania

Please have a look and continue - *Here*


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## QwertyManiac (Sep 21, 2007)

Microsoft uses 'thanx' ? I doubt if it was some Lucknow employee handling that mail.

Also that 'As applicable' part sounds a rather ... whatever, it won't matter to you.

All am saying is, just in case am wrong about you rigging this up, I sure am right in the other way. I hope you do understand sarcasm.

And I was wondering why a company will keep feedback links hidden? Or are you talking about *specific* feedbacks such as 'Windows Needs This' and that only MVPs, specifically the creator of this thread, are knowledgible enough to give their views?


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## mediator (Sep 21, 2007)

I hope gx had forwarded the suggestions only after he had understood the full meaning of them!! I hope MS doesn't snatches his MVP status for that. 

Besides I wud luv to observe MS's reply and wud request Mr.MVP to forward it to my email ID and may be to the other interested souls in here. So @gx can u plz do that benevolent act? *www.smileyhut.com/eat_drink/snack.gif

Email : darkmediator*AT*gmail.com


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## infra_red_dude (Sep 21, 2007)

forget it palz.. this topic is closed!!! everyone knew what wud happen after 11 pages during the start itself!!


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## din (Sep 21, 2007)

In malayalam language theres a saying

_Mala pole vannathu eli pole poyi_

Translation : Thing which came like a mountain went like a small rat 

Its all over now  so do not bug the poor guy any more lol


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## praka123 (Sep 22, 2007)

but with his devotion for microsoft,i hope he will be there in microsoft india as an employee! (not a sarcasm)


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## vish786 (Sep 22, 2007)

what happened......  i didnt see any reaction from microsoft ppl, nor decrease in microsoft products.


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