# Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Discussion



## Zangetsu (Apr 27, 2019)

*Avengers: Engame - 9/10*
A roller-coaster ride full of emotions, joy and sadness. Excellent ending for the Avengers timeline.


----------



## Desmond (Apr 29, 2019)

Watched Avengers: Endgame today and all I can say is that it's okay (7/10). That's all. 

I think the hype is really overblown.


----------



## rhitwick (Apr 29, 2019)

*Avengers:EndGame 8/10
*
Good but did not meet expectations or the hype that was created.
For me, till now only "Bahubali 2" surpassed the hype and expectations it created from part 1.

Endgame was a bit dramatic, I mean much on drama and less on action.


----------



## icebags (Apr 29, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> Watched Avengers: Endgame today and all I can say is that it's okay (7/10). That's all.
> 
> I think the hype is really overblown.


nah hype is fine. people had a connection with the characters for so long. it was an emotional situation to bid goodbye to them, as many of the audience grew up with them for a decade. apart from that the plot, the story and action stuff were top notch for a superhero movie.


----------



## sam9s (Apr 30, 2019)

*Avengers End Game* ....wont say much, but Infinity Wars was much much far better, infact IW for me was one ot the top two all time MCU movie of the 22 produced. EG was good but no way near to IW .... 6.5/10 for EG


----------



## sam9s (Apr 30, 2019)

icebags said:


> nah hype is fine. people had a connection with the characters for so long. it was an emotional situation to bid goodbye to them, as many of the audience grew up with them for a decade. apart from that the plot, the story and action stuff were top notch for a superhero movie.



I would agree the hype was for the connection and sentiments and that way EG does not disappoint. It was indeed a nice goodbye bid. But as a movie in entirety infinity wars was much better, the humour, the actions the entrance .. was just phenomenal in IW. EG .... played more on sentimental goodbye thingi ..


----------



## icebags (Apr 30, 2019)

sam9s said:


> I would agree the hype was for the connection and sentiments and that way EG does not disappoint. It was indeed a nice goodbye bid. But as a movie in entirety infinity wars was much better, the humour, the actions the entrance .. was just phenomenal in IW. EG .... played more on sentimental goodbye thingi ..



IW was awesome indeed. EG was more on the saddistic side. i would add, the post catastrophic defeat condition was quite well established as well. some people gave up, some lost their mind and few went desperate. it was gloomy when they had no clue, and when brighter when there was a faint light of hope. apart from that, thanos's response toward altering events was quite enjoyable.

however, it felt narishakti somehow went OP somewhere.


----------



## rhitwick (May 1, 2019)

I've some questions on EG



Spoiler



>Who decided the mission assignments for avengers when picking up infinity stones?
>Was it random selection or wilful?
>Asking as, soul stone requires a sacrifice of a soul. None in post "thanos snap" team possess the same affection towards each other other than Hawkeye and Black Widow. The mission would have failed if anyone else went there.
I think, sending Hawkeye and Black Widow to fetch soul stone was planned and the sacrifice was expected.
Really cold!


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 1, 2019)

^^I call it a convenient plot device coupled with excuse of them used to working as a team because as shown later they didn't know what they had to do to get this stone.


----------



## icebags (May 1, 2019)

^^ apparently they showed us the story of only the one reality among the 14 million, where they succeeded. 

in some other reality some other combination took place and probably that failed - that would be my guess.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 1, 2019)

icebags said:


> ^^ apparently they showed us the story of only the one reality among the 14 million, where they succeeded.
> 
> in some other reality some other combination took place and probably that failed - that would be my guess.


And that's why it is a plot device because it is must for success/plot.

P.S. btw a bigger question is 


Spoiler



stones were supposed to be returned to keep timelines intact but what happens to gammora timeline if she does not return to her original timeline & without her there will be no peter quill rise to guardians of galaxy & no Thanos getting soul stone in that timeline.


----------



## icebags (May 1, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> And that's why it is a plot device because it is must for success/plot.
> 
> P.S. btw a bigger question is
> 
> ...



interesting point, that did exactly not go as planned. (spoiler->) some people died in future, unlike the last time in their original timeline, including thanos. which opens up new possibilities for future chapters.


----------



## Nerevarine (May 1, 2019)

The very fact that people need to :
1) ask questions to understand the plotline better (mental thought provoking and open to interpretations)
2) prevent spoilers from propagating (unexpected events happening)
3) relate to characters that have been built up from many movies ago

proves infinity war/endgame to be a better movie than any bahubali, robot, blabla garbage bollywood /southhood throws up.
Just my opinion..

IW was more action heavy, a lot was happening in a short period of time.
EG was more drama, it was the end of all passages in time. EG could have been a lot better if thor wasnt nerfed to hell..Should be a warning to all, to drink responsively lol

The best kind of story is one that is open to reader/viewer interpretations. Thats why Game Of Thrones is so succesful.. Unfortunately, indian cinema doesnt like those kinds of movies.

ALSO


Spoiler



if loki in past timeline escaped with space stone, does it mean that he avoids his death  by thanos.



narishakti was over the top in EG. Marvel was mary sue.
How to make good female badass characters : 
Give them proper backstory relevant to story, build upon it and execute it
Examples : Scarlett Witch, Arya Stark, Lyanna mormont, Ripley etc.
How to make bad female characters : Rey, Captain Marvel etc.


----------



## icebags (May 1, 2019)

more speculations with spoilers, in continuation to my above post (select all to read) ----- vv
that means, there were no infinity war in that past time line.
how could cap actually return the stones to all those different entities, who are scattered all accros universe ? add to that some are non living (that ghostly smoky guardian guy on virmir), some did not have any clue of that gone stolen, etc.
well, some people raised these questions, and directors admitted that thing there actually CREATED another TIMELINE.
so what kind of story is old captain hiding. how did he return to his original timeline ?

may be future will tell, or may be not..... but things don't line up. there is surely something fishy cooking inside.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 1, 2019)

We have three Chris in this 
Good to see Stan Lee in Cameo role



rhitwick said:


> I've some questions on EG
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



No, Soul Stone sacrifice was unknown to the team and even Hawkeye & BW were surprised that a sacrifice was needed to get it.

@Nerevarine: The present timeline is unaffected by the past timeline where Loki Escaped.
Though, He will have some role to play in future.
Yes, He escaped Death by Thanos  as Thanos himself landed on present to get the infinity stones.

@whitestar_999 : Peter Quill is in search of the past Gamora and in the end he is leading the team of Guardian of the Galaxy, may be Asguardian of the Galaxy with Thor in his team.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 1, 2019)

@Zangetsu 


Spoiler



That Peter Quill is the resurrected version,original Peter Quill would not have successfully gathered others together as guardians of the galaxy if not for gamora. Also if there is no Thanos in past then events of IW would have been null & void which is not the case. My guess is that after all stones were returned to their timelines,those timelines reset to their original form meaning Thanos came back in past to successfully initiate events of IW.Same is the case with Loki's death just like Thor's mother as per their original timelines.Just think of appearance of past Thanos version & his army/generals/daughters as an anomaly removing which resulted in resurrection of all those lost during IW event after 5 years.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 1, 2019)

Spoiler



Restoring Infinity stones has nothing to do with Thanos presence. If Thanos came in past then in the end restoring the stones would Trigger the Thanos timeline again which is not the case. There are some things which Infinity stones can't resurrect such as Vision and Gamora. Restoring the stones will just make their respective timeline well-balanced. So, we won't see Thanos 3 again


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 1, 2019)

Spoiler



What I meant was that Thanos was restored in the past to cause IW event & then died at the hands of Thor.Obviously Vision & Gamora can't be resurrected because that would deviate from original timeline.Thanos is indeed dead but it is just that he dies 2 times without realising it(his past version dies without knowing that he will be restored to die again as IW version).


----------



## Pasapa (May 1, 2019)

Spoiler



Why did Thanos even come to the current timeline ? Why didn't he change the timeline he was in? That would've been easier.


----------



## sygeek (May 1, 2019)

Pasapa said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Why did Thanos even come to the current timeline ? Why didn't he change the timeline he was in? That would've been easier.





Spoiler



He came to their timeline because they already had all the infinity stones with glove and everything ready. And he also wanted to destroy their timeline's universe because according to him their Universe was an "experiment gone wrong" that he wanted to remove any evidence of.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 1, 2019)

sygeek said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> He came to their timeline because they already had all the infinity stones with glove and everything ready. And he also wanted to destroy their timeline's universe because according to him their Universe was an "experiment gone wrong" that he wanted to remove any evidence of.





Spoiler



It wasn't "experiment gone wrong",Thanos realised that this universe is the one which couldn't come to terms with event of IW so much that it actually devised such a plan to undo the IW event,this in his opinion disregarded all the benefits of half of all living beings surviving & so he decided to recreate this universe from the beginning after removing the memory of IW event so that there are no resentments left


----------



## Vyom (May 2, 2019)

Created this thread from the posts from Movie discussion thread.
You guys may remove your spoiler tags now. Let's discuss the most hyped movie in the history of Hollywood.

I personally felt a nice adieu to most of the characters. However as far as time travel goes, they really messed up a lot of it.
Remove time travel goof ups, and this was a really good movie indeed.

This video explains the goof ups in time travel plot of the movie:


----------



## nac (May 2, 2019)

How do they know in Sanctum they will find the Time stone? Was it a rough guess?



rhitwick said:


> I've some questions on EG
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


They were discussing in the Avenger compound. At least at one point one of them were there where the stone was (except for Soul stone). And I am assuming that they were guessing that Strange should have time stone in 2012, in New York @ Sanctum.
Thor knows when and where the stone was (the one with Natalie Portman)
Cap and Tony know about those two stones
Nebula knows about that stone

So it's not random, kinda planned. Yeah, Barton and Natasha were random.

To get Soul stone, it has to be a Sacrifice by the one who stays, right? Not suicide by the other. Gamora didn't kill herself, so that Thanos would get the Soul stone. In fact, she resisted and Thanos pushed her. But here it sure is suicide.



icebags said:


> ^^ apparently they showed us the story of only the one reality among the 14 million, where they succeeded.
> 
> in some other reality some other combination took place and probably that failed - that would be my guess.


But they didn't have any resource to try other combination. This is the only thing they tried and succeeded.



icebags said:


> so what kind of story is old captain hiding. how did he return to his original timeline ?


GUESSING:
He just lived in that timeline and was sitting on that bench waiting for Sam, Bucky and Hulk (cause he knows from this time/place he was sent back with the stones). Now we have two Captain, one who lived with Peggy and got old and one who found from the ice in 2012 Avengers. 



Zangetsu said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> There are some things which Infinity stones can't resurrect such as Vision and Gamora.


Why not? Gamora is alive in this new timeline, right?

If Gamora can come back alive, why not Natasha and Iron Man or anyone for that matter. Now they have enough Pym particles and Doctor Pym himself has come back if they need to make some new Pym particles. All they need to do is just send one few days back with two extra that time travel thingy to Avenger compound where Iron man, Natasha and all other planning/discussing how to get the stones and bring them back to current timeline. Viola!!!


----------



## Zangetsu (May 2, 2019)

nac said:


> Why not? Gamora is alive in this new timeline, right?
> 
> If Gamora can come back alive, why not Natasha and Iron Man or anyone for that matter. Now they have enough Pym particles and Doctor Pym himself has come back if they need to make some new Pym particles. All they need to do is just send one few days back with two extra that time travel thingy to Avenger compound where Iron man, Natasha and all other planning/discussing how to get the stones and bring them back to current timeline. Viola!!!


Resurrection by Infinity stones and not via Time travel.
Gamora came back from past timeline when Thanos was preparing for getting the Infinity Stones. Sure, we can get back Black Widow from past timeline. But that would be kinda Happy Ending.


----------



## nac (May 2, 2019)

How did Thanos with his ship time traveled without Pym particles? Nebula had just enough for one round trip which 2014 Nebula used to get back to current timeline.


----------



## Stormbringer (May 2, 2019)

nac said:


> How did Thanos with his ship time traveled without Pym particles? Nebula had just enough for one round trip which 2014 Nebula used to get back to current timeline.


Thanos reverse engineered the Pym Particles to mass produce for his troops.


----------



## Desmond (May 2, 2019)

Man, this Avengers spoiler thing is too overblown. I am sure this is just a plan of their marketing department to drive more sales. Can we just discuss this normally without using spoiler tags? It says in the title that there will be spoilers, that should be warning enough.


----------



## rhitwick (May 2, 2019)

I think, don't deep dive into time travel theory of EG, this is not a Nolan movie rather a comic book adaptation.

Enjoy the nonsense and stop asking for logic.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 2, 2019)

Stormbringer said:


> Thanos reverse engineered the Pym Particles to mass produce for his troops.


Thanos & his companion Magician


----------



## icebags (May 2, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> Man, this Avengers spoiler thing is too overblown. I am sure this is just a plan of their marketing department to drive more sales. Can we just discuss this normally without using spoiler tags? It says in the title that there will be spoilers, that should be warning enough.



yah, there marketing dept has been doing a fine job at sales since the start of mcu. but it was not always like that.

so, for anyone who wants to look a little into their history :





for now they have practically endless supply of marvel comics to make movies on. expect increased number of movies every year. after the release of the upcoming spider man movie, we will probably get some hint on, what will be coming next.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 3, 2019)

icebags said:


> for now they have practically endless supply of marvel comics to make movies on.


That applies to DC too,it is not a guarantee that marvel movies will repeat their success every time. Infinity Gauntlet is probably the most popular/recognizable crossover/team-up story in marvel universe( 15 Best Marvel Comics Storylines Of All Time ). Maybe next time they can reboot Infinity Gauntlet storyline with X-men,fantastic 4 & adam warlock.


----------



## nac (May 3, 2019)

^ Going by Wiki, they have plans for 2 movies next year and 3 each in 2021 and 2022. Additional 20 planned through for the next decade.

Guess, they will keep making until everyone finds it boring.


----------



## icebags (May 3, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> That applies to DC too,it is not a guarantee that marvel movies will repeat their success every time. Infinity Gauntlet is probably the most popular/recognizable crossover/team-up story in marvel universe( 15 Best Marvel Comics Storylines Of All Time ). Maybe next time they can reboot Infinity Gauntlet storyline with X-men,fantastic 4 & adam warlock.



that is expected somehow. if they want to bring galactus as villain in future they will have to bring silver surfer. if silver surfer shows face, fantastic 4 will follow at some point. i wonder if chris evans would like to be human torch again ?


----------



## Desmond (May 3, 2019)

Aren't Fantastic 4 and Silver Surfer licensed to Sony? I don't think Marvel can make movies on them unless they come to an agreement similar to what they did with Spiderman.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 3, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> Aren't Fantastic 4 and Silver Surfer licensed to Sony? I don't think Marvel can make movies on them unless they come to an agreement similar to what they did with Spiderman.


Acquisition of 21st Century Fox by Disney - Wikipedia
Disney now owns both Marvel Entertainment & 21st century fox(sony holds spiderman rights,Fantastic 4 & Silver Surfer rights were held by 21st century fox).

Here is a very detailed explanation of marvel characters & various companies holding their rights:
Avengers IP, Assemble: the wild, circuitous path to Marvel getting its own brands back


----------



## Anorion (May 3, 2019)

icebags said:


> that is expected somehow. if they want to bring galactus as villain in future they will have to bring silver surfer. if silver surfer shows face, fantastic 4 will follow at some point. i wonder if chris evans would like to be human torch again ?


Silver Surfer, Deadpool, Wolverine, Death and the Titans were supposedly vital for Infinity Gauntlet storyline as well, but they managed without


----------



## Desmond (May 3, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Deadpool


I would have loved to see Deadpool in Avengers. Best comic relief IMO.

Also, in the comics:


Spoiler



Thanos actually kills people because he wants to woo Lady Death, who in turn is attracted to Deadpool.


----------



## Desmond (May 3, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Fantastic 4 & Silver Surfer rights were held by 21st century fox


My bad, I remembered that it was held by someone other than Marvel but couldn't recall who.


----------



## SaiyanGoku (May 3, 2019)

Asgard has space stone in 2013 since Thor bought it back in 2012. I wonder if they could've used that too.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 4, 2019)

Thor was the best person for any Asgard mission & he was already selected for reality stone mission.


----------



## icebags (May 4, 2019)

question : why thanos came to fight in end-game with a double sided sword and full armours ?
answer : because unlike infinity war, he was not wearing the infinity gauntlet. in infinity was he was so confident, that he stripped down to tanktop, as if he was going for a beach walk.


----------



## SaiyanGoku (May 4, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Thor was the best person for any Asgard mission & he was already selected for reality stone mission.


I mean tesseract was just sitting in Asgard's vault at that time.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 4, 2019)

SaiyanGoku said:


> I mean tesseract was just sitting in Asgard's vault at that time.


It was not just sitting,Asgard's vault probably has some of the most powerful security measures in that universe.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 6, 2019)

Endgame AfterMath


----------



## Anorion (May 6, 2019)

What is that paradox that Stark says will happen?


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 6, 2019)

Anorion said:


> What is that paradox that Stark says will happen?


You mean the one when he first refused to work with cap & ant man.I think it was just some standard time paradox statement.


----------



## Anorion (May 6, 2019)

Eh, found it on IMDB, he says "Quantum fluctuation messes with the Planck's scale, which then triggers the Doidge proposition" 
Doidge proposition is not a thing
another meaningless phrase, similar to "inverted mobius strip"


----------



## Flash (May 7, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Eh, found it on IMDB, he says "Quantum fluctuation messes with the Planck's scale, which then triggers the Doidge proposition"
> Doidge proposition is not a thing
> another meaningless phrase, similar to "inverted mobius strip"


Here's The Actual Science Behind That Huge Plot Point in Avengers: Endgame


----------



## Flash (May 7, 2019)

Anorion said:


> What is that paradox that Stark says will happen?


EPR Paradox.


----------



## Anorion (May 7, 2019)

Ah yes, thanks, EPR paradox.



Flash said:


> Here's The Actual Science Behind That Huge Plot Point in Avengers: Endgame


Read this when it came out in The Conversation, thing is they do not address all the technical terms used. 
Still, a great read.


----------



## Flash (May 7, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Read this when it came out in The Conversation, thing is they do not address all the technical terms used.
> Still, a great read.


Ya. Not all the terms are wrong though. From what i've read, EG handled the Time travel paradox effectively compared to the other time travel movies. 
Maybe the technobabble was just to show-off Tony/Banner are the greatest minds of MCU, and whatever they do will surely work for a reason.


----------



## Flash (May 7, 2019)

icebags said:


> question : why thanos came to fight in end-game with a double sided sword and full armours ?
> answer : because unlike infinity war, he was not wearing the infinity gauntlet. in infinity was he was so confident, that he stripped down to tanktop, as if he was going for a beach walk.


Another way to look at is - 2018's Thanos got more time to study each Avenger effectively learning their weakness/strength, prior making a move in I-War. We also can't forget the fact that Thanos beat Hulk purely based on his Brute strength, and not with Infinity stones. He may've thought "If i can beat Hulk without stones, then i can very well take down others without my armor".


----------



## Anorion (May 7, 2019)

It's probably the Deutsch proposition and not the "Doidge proposition", seems like whoever put in IMDB got it wrong.


----------



## Anorion (May 7, 2019)

If Rocket detected a similar energy signature as the one used on Earth during the snap, why did they have to think so much about where Thanos is, and when Nebula talks about his retirement plan, how does that information help the Avengers home in on the location?


----------



## icebags (May 7, 2019)

Anorion said:


> If Rocket detected a similar energy signature as the one used on Earth during the snap, why did they have to think so much about where Thanos is, and when Nebula talks about his retirement plan, how does that information help the Avengers home in on the location?


well, may be their detection antenna was not facing towards thanos planet this time, to detect the energy signature. for the retirement plan, may be thanos shared with his beloved daughter about his desires to purchase a house to settle down at shimla post retirement.

they probably left a lot of gaps to use our imagination to fill in, as it seems.


----------



## Anorion (May 8, 2019)

^Haha 

Anyone wanna try and list all the realities
-Lets call the main one the "*prime universe*". This is where the Snap gets unmade, Nat and Stark are dead. The future of the MCU.
-Cap gets old with Peggy in peggycap reality, then jumps back to the *prime universe*.
-Snap does not happen in the reality from where Thanos gets into the* prime universe* future - this is the best reality because both Black Widow and 2014 Gamora are alive, and so are Iron Man and Vision
-Thor, Rocket and War Machine are in the above reality? No clue lol
-In any case, there is another short lived timeline where the reality stone is taken out of Jane Foster by a future rocket raccoon, then returned to Jane Foster at the same time by future cap? Lulsk
-The Soul stone goes to future Barton... when Thanos shows up, he has all the other stones, but cannot really take the soul stone. Gamora really does have the last laugh in this timeline.
-Loki is alive with the space stone in the Lokiverse? That has to be a branch.
-We know that some kind hijinks will eventually lead to WandaVision
-Cap, Stark, Hulk and Antman start off like at least two branches

What this means is that an infinite number of daughter timelines identical to the *prime universe* timeline is being perpetually created to undo the snap in the parent *prime universe timeline*

this is quite the inverted mobius strip to unravel


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 8, 2019)

The way I see it there are no multiple timelines(strictly in Endgame's context). Prime Universe IW snap was undone & that's it. Anything extra that happened in Prime universe & other "temporarily created timelines" were also undone by the end of the movie. Thanos did succeed but also died twice in prime universe(1st after IW snap & 2nd after coming from past of prime universe). The entire premise of returning infinity stones to their original places in past after undoing the snap was to prevent occurring of alternative timelines.

Anything opposite to above is simply plot hole if marvel does decide to bring back loki/gamora/iron man/black widow/vision in future movies of this phase of marvel movies.


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

So where did Cap go to return Tessaract? 1970 or 2012?
Assuming he went to 1970 to return Tessaract and reunite with Peggy, they didn't close the timeline branch they created in 2012 where Loki took it and escaped.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 8, 2019)

I found Captain Marvel to be the most Powerful Superhero who can compete Thanos Head to Head. To Bad she had small role in Endgame...Would love to see her in upcoming movies


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> So where did Cap go to return Tessaract? 1970 or 2012?
> Assuming he went to 1970 to return Tessaract and reunite with Peggy, they didn't close the timeline branch they created in 2012 where Loki took it and escaped.


I think when Tessaract was returned to 1970 it reset any changes done in 2012 by future versions.Of course marvel can use this as an excuse to bring back loki in future but that would be a plot hole like I mentioned in my previous post.


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

Anorion said:


> -Cap gets old with Peggy in peggycap reality, then jumps back to the *prime universe*.
> -Snap does not happen in the reality from where Thanos gets into the* prime universe* future - this is the best reality because both Black Widow and 2014 Gamora are alive, and so are Iron Man and Vision


- Cap jumps back? If I have to assume, I would assume it as that he stayed with Peggy and got old. But how that timeline crossed prime universe is kinda loophole. If he stayed with Peggy, he didn't fight 2012 war (or he did fight as an old man), or who saved Bucky in Winter Soldier?
- Gamora 2014 is alive in prime universe. So in that reality Gamora doesn't exist unless she goes back there.


----------



## Flash (May 8, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> I think when Tessaract was returned to 1970 it reset any changes done in 2012 by future versions.Of course marvel can use this as an excuse to bring back loki in future but that would be a plot hole like I mentioned in my previous post.


Wasn't Loki truly dead in IW, just like Vision/Heimdall? As Prof. hulk said how many times he tried to bring back Natasha, he can't. So, i doubt Loki will appear in future. 

Though, there's a possibility thanks to his (half?)sister, Hela. If he's truly dead and sent to hell, he can very well manipulate Hela to bring him back. We don't know for sure that Hela died at the hands of Surtur in Ragnarok.


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> I think when Tessaract was returned to 1970 it reset any changes done in 2012 by future versions.Of course marvel can use this as an excuse to bring back loki in future but that would be a plot hole like I mentioned in my previous post.


  
If it can reset, will it reset everything. In that case, why bother returning the stones by going to each timeline. Returning one in 1970 wouldn't be suffice?


Flash said:


> Wasn't Loki truly dead in IW, just like Vision/Heimdall? As Prof. hulk said how many times he tried to bring back Natasha, he can't.


Yeah, he did died. They can't bring him back using stones to current timeline. But he can be alive in the timeline branch they created in 2012 and in the 2014 timeline where Thanos comes to current timeline and died. If there is no Thanos in 2014 timeline, then Loki can't be killed by Thanos.


----------



## Flash (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> If there is no Thanos in 2014 timeline, then Loki can't be killed by Thanos.


From what I've understood from End game time-travel concept, one can't change the past. If they try to change, it will create *B*ranch timelines though* O*riginal will remain intact. So, O will be present with B1,  B2, etc.,

That's why Avengers time-travelled, picked up stones  and tried to undo the after-effects of Snap, but not stopping the snap - because the snap will happen anyway, as it's a fixed point in Time per O.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 8, 2019)

Flash said:


> From what I've understood from End game time-travel concept, one can't change the past. If they try to change, it will create *B*ranch timelines though* O*riginal will remain intact. So, O will be present with B1,  B2, etc.,
> 
> That's why Avengers time-travelled, picked up stones  and tried to undo the after-effects of Snap, but not stopping the snap - because the snap will happen anyway, as it's a fixed point in Time per O.


Yes, parallel timelines the only thing is they stole the stones from the timelines which were meant to be restored to its respective timeline


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

Yeah, right. Past of current timeline won't change whatever they do. And there is NO option to change.

Cap returning the stones not gonna change Thanos travelling to current timeline. I can draw a picture and explain, but I hope you will understand it if you think a little more.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> If it can reset, will it reset everything. In that case, why bother returning the stones by going to each timeline. Returning one in 1970 wouldn't be suffice?


Yes,it should reset everything including no branching of original/prime timeline.Stones are not being returned to "their timeline" but "their original place in time". If someone took a stone in 1970 to use in Endgame then it needs to be returned exactly to 1970(that is also why loki getting tessaract is irrelevant because that was not used in Endgame as the one used was from 1970) & since there are 6 stones so there are 6 places in time they need to be returned. Existence of alternative timelines suggest more than 6 infinity stones as each timeline will have their own infinity stones but as per comics,infinity stones of a particular timeline/universe work only in that timeline/universe.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 8, 2019)

Flash said:


> Wasn't Loki truly dead in IW, just like Vision/Heimdall? As Prof. hulk said how many times he tried to bring back Natasha, he can't. So, i doubt Loki will appear in future.


If infinity stones are gathered again in a similar way then loki & Heimdell can be brought back but who would do that(infinity stones grant a single specific wish so it is either "undo the snap" or "bring back loki & heimdell"). Vision & Black Widow are special cases because Vision was created from mind stone so his existence require mind stone from start(after coming back) but mind stone cannot be with vision from the start if it is already in infinity gauntlet. Same is the case with black widow whose soul was a payment to get soul stone,you cannot bring a soul back which was already given as payment to get soul stone because if it comes back then transaction for soul stone stands null & void meaning no soul stone in the first place.


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Yes,it should reset everything including no branching of original/prime timeline.Stones are not being returned to "their timeline" but "their original place in time". If someone took a stone in 1970 to use in Endgame then it needs to be returned exactly to 1970(that is also why loki getting tessaract is irrelevant because that was not used in Endgame as the one used was from 1970) & since there are 6 stones so there are 6 places in time they need to be returned.


It's not clear and it's confusing. And I don't know why it's irrelevant Loki absconding with Tessaract. It's a total mess up by the makers, that's what I would say. Please don't bother explaining this for me again. Thanks 


whitestar_999 said:


> as per comics, infinity stones of a particular timeline/universe work only in that timeline/universe.


So Marvel bent the story for it's convenience to make this movie, then. Coz, none of the stones used by Tony are from this timeline/universe. All from different timelines/universe. Iron man snap shouldn't have worked then.


----------



## Anorion (May 8, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> The way I see it there are no multiple timelines(strictly in Endgame's context). Prime Universe IW snap was undone & that's it. Anything extra that happened in Prime universe & other "temporarily created timelines" were also undone by the end of the movie. Thanos did succeed but also died twice in prime universe(1st after IW snap & 2nd after coming from past of prime universe). The entire premise of returning infinity stones to their original places in past after undoing the snap was to prevent occurring of alternative timelines.
> 
> Anything opposite to above is simply plot hole if marvel does decide to bring back loki/gamora/iron man/black widow/vision in future movies of this phase of marvel movies.



The writers and directors do not seem to agree if there were multiple timelines or not.
We were just shown conceptually how returning the stones to the time that they were taken from, but not practically. He has to return the reality stone and put it back into Foster just after Rocket puts the Asgardian guards on alert. Returning the time stone to the Ancient One should not have been much of a problem, but when it comes to the power stone, it has to be done before Star Lord gets knocked out? Or Star Lord just does not remember getting knocked out? And really, what about the soul stone, he just shows up on Vormir and tells Red Skull, here take back the soul stone, we do not really want it anymore. Does he get a soul in exchange for the soul? After doing all this he jumps into the past and gets married to Peggy Carter, although she already had another husband that Cap rescued. (Although many MCU chars have appeared in TV Series, think Jarvis is the only character from a Marvel TV series to make it to the films). As Peggy Carter's husband was never mentioned, it could actually be Cap, although it seemed like it was another soldier that Cap rescued. It is just cryptic enough to be plausible. 
In any case, the stones cannot be returned at the exact time, and there are slight changes in the universe, at least that would lead to a butterfly effect as time passes. 



nac said:


> So where did Cap go to return Tessaract? 1970 or 2012?
> Assuming he went to 1970 to return Tessaract and reunite with Peggy, they didn't close the timeline branch they created in 2012 where Loki took it and escaped.



Yeah, he cannot "fix" both the timelines. 



nac said:


> - Cap jumps back? If I have to assume, I would assume it as that he stayed with Peggy and got old. But how that timeline crossed prime universe is kinda loophole. If he stayed with Peggy, he didn't fight 2012 war (or he did fight as an old man), or who saved Bucky in Winter Soldier?
> - Gamora 2014 is alive in prime universe. So in that reality Gamora doesn't exist unless she goes back there.


Yes, exactly, plus Peggy has to pretend that she is not married to Cap when she meets him at her death bed. 

Also, this is hilarious - all the problems with undoing the snap.


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

Peggy doesn't have to pretend, coz that young Cap isn't there in that timeline. Only the old Cap who is her hubby now.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> So Marvel bent the story for it's convenience to make this movie, then. Coz, none of the stones used by Tony are from this timeline/universe. All from different timelines/universe. Iron man snap shouldn't have worked then.


That's where the confusion comes from,in my opinion all stones came from same timeline/universe but different times(each timeline/universe has its own past,present & future after all). In comics it is clarified by numbering of the different realities/timelines/universes,prime universe/main universe is Earth-616 & any infinity stone of Eath-616 universe will work in it whether it comes from the past or future of Earth-616 reality/universe.


----------



## Anorion (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> Peggy doesn't have to pretend, coz that young Cap isn't there in that timeline. Only the old Cap who is her hubby now.


Young cap is in the timeline, frozen in ice? Old cap could also have "rescued" young cap to change the timeline


----------



## Anorion (May 8, 2019)

I really like the inverted mobius strip thing, because it can actually be an elegant explanation, which allows the events to play out in a mobius strip timeloop
Here, made these so you can print them out, and see how they work. Fold along the bold line, twist and stick the red bits.

*i.imgur.com/WKwIfWa.jpg

Working on a more advanced version with interconnected loops 

It really does not matter if these (the two "sides") are parallel universes, or time folding onto itself in a single universe. However, when the same approach is taken for Cap, there is no need for an inverted mobius strip explanation at all, because surprisingly, his story is less paradoxical than say Nebula or Thanos.

1940s
Cappening, Zola is defeated, Cap is frozen in ice
1970s
Future Rogers + Past Peggy <3
2011
Cap is rescued from ice
2018
Snappening
2023
Time Heist successful, Cap returns as an old man


----------



## nac (May 8, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Young cap is in the timeline, frozen in ice? Old cap could also have "rescued" young cap to change the timeline


Yeah, that's right.  I missed it.


----------



## icebags (May 8, 2019)

nac said:


> So where did Cap go to return Tessaract? 1970 or 2012?
> Assuming he went to 1970 to return Tessaract and reunite with Peggy, they didn't close the timeline branch they created in 2012 where Loki took it and escaped.


very much valid concern. he will need another time travel to go 1970 and return the tes. 

people are seriously thinking there is a plot build-up for future movies in this captain america thing.  
probably he never returned the gems and secretly have been harboring them in peggy's basement. may be a dark captain america will arise soon, who knows.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 9, 2019)

^^Most important point is whether Robert Downey Jr & Chris Evans will renew their contract with marvel(which I doubt) without which there should be no more original cap/original iron man in currently ongoing marvel movie series(aka not counting sam as new cap & some other person donning new iron man suit).


----------



## Zangetsu (May 9, 2019)

Robert Downey Jr / Iron  Man is dead he is not going to return
Will Robert Downey Jr make a comeback to MCU as Iron Man? Avengers: Endgame co-director Joe Russo answers | Hollywood News


----------



## Anorion (May 9, 2019)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1187582631402444


----------



## Anorion (May 9, 2019)

*i.imgur.com/bgPeJkq.jpg


----------



## Flash (May 10, 2019)

Avengers: Endgame's Biggest Plot Holes


----------



## Anorion (May 11, 2019)

Flash said:


> Avengers: Endgame's Biggest Plot Holes


I don't see a single plot hole here. 
The problem is that we are too used to thinking that when the past is changed, the ripple effects into the future are realised instantaneously. That is, say if you go and kill your grandfather, you immediately get wiped away from all existing photos. 
In Endgame, the logical consequences and the ripple effects have the time to play out. Like Stark showed with the visualisation, the time curves back into itself, where both versions of events play out. 
So, this timeline that twists into itself but always flows in the same direction has two sides. In one side, Thanos dies in 2014, Gamora jumps to 2023, there is no Snap, Stark and Nat are alive and well. There is no heist, which means that Thanos does not die in 2014, the Snap does take place in 2018, and there is a time heist in 2023. So the paradox resolves itself when given the time, but both sets of events take place.


----------



## icebags (May 11, 2019)

the logic behind thanos double blade sword, for those whoever interested in melee weaponology. 






_"Clearly Thanos is a thousand-year-old character who has fought everyone in the universe and is the greatest: He's the Genghis Khan of the universe, so he would have the greatest weapon," Russo said. "He knows of Eitri, he's been to Eitri to have his glove created. Did he have them create his blade as well? Potentially. But it's interesting that it could destroy the *shield*."_

- Director Joe Russo


----------



## nac (May 12, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Yes,it should reset everything including no branching of original/prime timeline.Stones are not being returned to "their timeline" but "their original place in time". If someone took a stone in 1970 to use in Endgame then it needs to be returned exactly to 1970(that is also why loki getting tessaract is irrelevant because that was not used in Endgame as the one used was from 1970) & since there are 6 stones so there are 6 places in time they need to be returned. Existence of alternative timelines suggest more than 6 infinity stones as each timeline will have their own infinity stones but as per comics,infinity stones of a particular timeline/universe work only in that timeline/universe.


I think I understood this theory.
... First I thought we can bring back Tony and Natasha using time space GPS and Pym particles by going few days back to Avenger compound.
... Later, my understanding was if we do bring Tony and Natasha, that means there would be no Tony/Natasha to go and get those stones. Then no snapping back those people to life from IW. Of course that would be a branch and EG timeline not gonna affected by that. But closing the branch is what they are trying to do at the end.

If there is not gonna be any alternate reality with all the stones returned, why not bring them back to current time?

or

If those branches are vanished, then Thanos didn't come to EG and Avengers didn't fight the war against Thanos and Iron man didn't die.

Seems like this theory is screwed up.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 12, 2019)

nac said:


> If those branches are vanished, then Thanos didn't come to EG and Avengers didn't fight the war against Thanos and Iron man didn't die.


The original branch remained with Thanos & everything exactly as it was before leading to IW event.The Thanos that came from past who died along with his army was resurrected back in 2014 as soon as timeline was restored/infinity stones were returned.It only means that Thor & group who killed Thanos in 2018 now have a memory of killing him again in 2023.


----------



## nac (May 12, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> The original branch remained with Thanos & everything exactly as it was before leading to IW event.The Thanos that came from past who died along with his army was resurrected back in 2014 as soon as timeline was restored/infinity stones were returned.


Yeah. If branches are erased or vanished after returning the stone, means Hulk snapping should also be erased. Why? Coz Nebula who comes from 2014 is part of that branch. She is the who brings Power stone which Hulk used it to snap the people back to current time. So this theory doesn't make sense at all.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 12, 2019)

You are confusing present of "prime/original" timeline with past of other branches.In prime timeline "any present unexpected events" are allowed(like hulk getting stone from past & then snapping) but such events are not allowed in "other branches in past" because that will change the original timeline & will create branches(e.g.an alternate 2014 branch where there is no guardians of galaxy & no gamora/thanos). Think of it in this way,any event not undone after endgame(except vision/black widow/iron man)=that many different timelines=that many infinity stones*6(or other number)


----------



## Zangetsu (May 12, 2019)

Oh Man! this is getting more confusing than Inception & Triangle


----------



## nac (May 13, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> You are confusing present of "prime/original" timeline with past of other branches.In prime timeline "any present unexpected events" are allowed(like hulk getting stone from past & then snapping) but such events are not allowed in "other branches in past" because that will change the original timeline & will create branches(e.g.an alternate 2014 branch where there is no guardians of galaxy & no gamora/thanos). Think of it in this way,any event not undone after endgame(except vision/black widow/iron man)=that many different timelines=that many infinity stones*6(or other number)


In that case bringing back Tony and Natasha using time space gps not gonna create any branches. So the rest of the avengers chose those two to remain dead. Captain could've taken two extra gps with him when he went to return those stones.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 13, 2019)

nac said:


> In that case bringing back Tony and Natasha using time space gps not gonna create any branches. So the rest of the avengers chose those two to remain dead. Captain could've taken two extra gps with him when he went to return those stones.


That's not going to work,issue is not with time space gps but with the way Tony & Nat died.Tony can't be resurrected in prime timeline because he is always going to be the one who snapped the past version Thanos away(aka the only possible future which Dr. Strange saw in IW where Avengers won & the reason he gave time stone away to save Tony's life in IW),his resurrection demands another assemble of infinity stones in prime timeline which is not possible. As for Nat,she died as a payment for soul stone which was then used in Endgame snaps so she also cannot be resurrected because her resurrection means soul stone cannot exist in prime timeline at the time of Endgame snaps(you cannot have duplicate/2 versions of same soul of Nat of original timeline).


----------



## Anorion (May 13, 2019)

Most of the "branches" are closed off soon after they were created, be replacing the stones. This is tricky, and very problematic for the soul stone, but if we just go with that, then there are just two big loops - cap's trip through time, and the time heist.
Now, if Infinity War showed another sequence of events, it does not matter if parallel universe, or other side of a twisted timeline that curves back into itself (mobius strip), it would be something like: 
-Thanos jumps to the future and gets killed
-There is no Ronin
-Thor is fit
-Antman exits the quantum realm as planned
-Nat and Stark Live
-There is no time heist 

Now, this is a sequence in the twisted section of the prime timeline, and there is a twist, which is the time heist, which allows thanos to be killed in 2014. On the other side of the timeline, we have the series of events shown in Infinity War and Endgma.e 

The trick is to follow the sequence of events as a gradual progression, instead of directly looking at the end results. Both versions of events are played out simultaneously, in the same timeline. It does not have to be interpreted as a parallel/branching universe, although it can be.

It is possible to bring back Stark and Nat with a subsequent Time Heist, but I suspect the full impact of the snap is not shown in Endgame, and we might see it in future MCU movies.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 13, 2019)

Anorion said:


> It is possible to bring back Stark and Nat with a subsequent Time Heist, but I suspect the full impact of the snap is not shown in Endgame, and we might see it in future MCU movies.


First,from the point of practicality this won't happen.It is better to reboot the entire marvel lineup or go with some other plot line instead of stretching the original movie lineup(think of terminator series). I don't think Marvel is going to make this same mistake.

Second,from plot line view this won't happen either.Tony can be resurrected but that requires another time heist which definitely is not going to happen just to save him. As for Nat,I already explained why it is not possible.Her soul is already used for getting soul stone in 2014 so no matter what happens,nat's soul & soul stone cannot separate from each other after 2014 meaning any attempt to bring back nat's soul will undo the snaps of 2023 as there will be no soul stone there.You can argue that there is still Nat in 2014 alive & well then my explanation is that even if Nat remains alive & well from 2014 to 2023 her soul remained linked with soul stone because cap returned soul stone back in 2014 which was then taken by Thanos in 2018 using gamora soul. Think of these souls as rent payment for soul stone so there is no one soul linked to soul stone but multiple souls over time who were used as payment to get soul stone & all these souls will remain with soul stone for ever.


----------



## Anorion (May 13, 2019)

Yeah, I agree they won't do that. Thing that worries me is how did Cap return the soul stone?
And in that long FB interview in previous page, Joe Russo confirms that the MCU is going forward with the effects of the snap, which was a brave thing to do. Half the universe is five years younger than the other.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 13, 2019)

Marvel's next 5yrs time line



Spoiler



2020 - snap
2021 - Snap
2022 - SNap
2023 - SNAp
2024 - SNAP!


----------



## Flash (May 13, 2019)

If time passes differently in Quantum Realm (like Ant-man just spent 5hrs in QR, while the rest have spent 5 years in the world), how Janet Van Dyne came exactly older like Pym, when she got pulled from QR by Ant-man team? Should she be somewhat Younger or Older (since time passed through her) than the Ant-man team?

As told by Stark, Scott turned into Child and Old man (in the 1st attempt) because the rest of the Avengers are pushing time through him, instead of pushing him through time? Assuming team Ant-man didnt have this Stark's insight and its idea of Time tracker GPS, how did the team pulled Janet off QR without increasing/decreasing her age w.r.t to age per nature's course?


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 14, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Yeah, I agree they won't do that. Thing that worries me is how did Cap return the soul stone?


Just my guess but exactly after nebula & hawkeye returned to 2023 & as soon as cap returned it & went back,2014 timeline was reset so peter quill was on his way to get stone without getting knocked out & thanos was in his usual place in 2014.



Flash said:


> As told by Stark, Scott turned into Child and Old man (in the 1st attempt) because the rest of the Avengers are pushing time through him, instead of pushing him through time? Assuming team Ant-man didnt have this Stark's insight and its idea of Time tracker GPS, how did the team pulled Janet off QR without increasing/decreasing her age w.r.t to age per nature's course?


My guess is that Janet is different from Ant-man in the sense that she actually lived inside QR for a long time so maybe the rules that affect Ant-man don't affect her in same way.


----------



## Anorion (May 14, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Just my guess but exactly after nebula & hawkeye returned to 2023 & as soon as cap returned it & went back,2014 timeline was reset so peter quill was on his way to get stone without getting knocked out & thanos was in his usual place in 2014.


Sure, but how did Cap actually return the stone? Did he just go up to Red Skull and say, "here, you can have it back"? Does Cap not get a soul in exchange for the soul stone?


----------



## Zangetsu (May 14, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Sure, but how did Cap actually return the stone? Did he just go up to Red Skull and say, "here, you can have it back"? Does Cap not get a soul in exchange for the soul stone?


I don't think soul can be exchanged for placing back soul stone.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 14, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Sure, but how did Cap actually return the stone? Did he just go up to Red Skull and say, "here, you can have it back"? Does Cap not get a soul in exchange for the soul stone?


Not sure but most likely he just need to drop the soul stone from that cliff.As for getting anything in return that is not possible because as I said earlier,any soul given as payment for getting soul stone is kind of like a rent(but without any fixed time period) so whenever the stone is returned the payment still stands.


----------



## icebags (May 14, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Not sure but most likely he just need to drop the soul stone from that cliff.As for getting anything in return that is not possible because as I said earlier,any soul given as payment for getting soul stone is kind of like a rent(but without any fixed time period) so whenever the stone is returned the payment still stands.


but, capten needed to travel to that planet first. how could he do that ?


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 15, 2019)

icebags said:


> but, capten needed to travel to that planet first. how could he do that ?


I believe the time travel tech allow them to directly reach any place in universe as long as they have correct coordinates(which avengers had for all 6 stones' locations).


----------



## icebags (May 15, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> I believe the time travel tech allow them to directly reach any place in universe as long as they have correct coordinates(which avengers had for all 6 stones' locations).


i would guess thats for the time jump only. to return other stones he had to travel to earth, if soul planet was his first destination.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 16, 2019)

icebags said:


> i would guess thats for the time jump only. to return other stones he had to travel to earth, if soul planet was his first destination.


No,the time travel tech allows one to jump to any coordinate as long as there is enough supply of pym particles(cap & tony jumped from 2012 to 70s).


----------



## nac (May 16, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> No,the time travel tech allows one to jump to any coordinate as long as there is enough supply of pym particles(cap & tony jumped from 2012 to 70s).


That too without the need of quantum tunnel they can travel anywhere   
Don't even know why they needed one in the first place if they can do it without it.
Whether we agree or not, there are lot of loopholes/no logic to the things they established to tell the story.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 16, 2019)

Yeah,it is no Interstellar. Btw that quantum tunnel I think is just a sort of launchpad/landing-pad & it is used only at the time of jump & final return(think of a runway,after take-off plane can move in any direction in air & only needs runway for final landing).


----------



## billubakra (May 27, 2019)

2 questions-
1. When Strange saw those 14mn+ possibilities why didn't he tell how the 1 in which they beat Thanos will play to Stark? If he wasn't supposed to tell him(again why?), then shouldn't he have given a hint or something or atleast told him that to make the gauntlet strong enough or with a particular material so that the person wearing it is not harmed?
2. Why didn't Thanos use the time stone to see that outcome in which he's defeated?
In my personal opinion, Marvel made the time shifting crap too confusing just like those X-Men movies.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 27, 2019)

1. Somewhat based on a real scientific theory which states that observation can affect result.In other words knowing about something beforehand will change the result foreseen.If Strange told about that possibility(or even gave some hints) then that possibility would not have happened(in simpler terms if Stark or anyone else knew/got some hint about this then it would have introduced new variables like hesitation,emotion,too much caution etc resulting in failure).

2. My guess is that Time stone can be used in many ways & Thanos focused on practical applications like reversing Time for a certain object while Strange focused on theoretical applications like simulating various future realities.


----------



## Zangetsu (May 27, 2019)

Dr Strange knew that Tony Stark is the only one who can defeat Thanos and will die in the end.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 27, 2019)

Tony did not defeat Thanos,he successfully swiped the stones from him during their clash & this primarily needed skills & luck not strength which is probably why he was the only one who could do it(you can acquire skills but you cannot acquire luck).


----------



## billubakra (May 27, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> 1. Somewhat based on a real scientific theory which states that observation can affect result.In other words knowing about something beforehand will change the result foreseen.If Strange told about that possibility(or even gave some hints) then that possibility would not have happened(in simpler terms if Stark or anyone else knew/got some hint about this then it would have introduced new variables like hesitation,emotion,too much caution etc resulting in failure).
> 
> 2. My guess is that Time stone can be used in many ways & Thanos focused on practical applications like reversing Time for a certain object while Strange focused on theoretical applications like simulating various future realities.



These are all reasons/judgements varying from person to person. Marvel fcked up pretty bad with the hype.


----------



## nac (May 27, 2019)

^ Watch GoT final season, you will find Endgame better.


----------



## Anorion (May 28, 2019)

Strange saw them winning in one of those 6 million odd futures (feel the number is too less, but anyway). This means that in most cases, Thanos wins. Its only in the prime timeline that the people who got dusted in the snap, get to live. The world line is curved in a closed timelike curve, which loops back into itself. The so called inconsistencies and paradoxes resolve themselves really. Each time one of two things can happen, the universe splits into two, where both eventualities take place. According to the theories of David Deutsch, there is 1/2 chance that Thanos dies in 2014, 1/2 a chance that he can execute the snap, 1/2 chance that Thor becomes fat, 1/2 chance of Ronin, 1/2 chance of Nat dying, and 1/2 chance of Stark living. In all these the prime timeline is only one. The science is actually pretty deep and solid, even if the way it is explained on screen is gibberish.

Something that is bugging me is if there are branches out there where Cap does not manage to return one or all of the time stones after the snap, creating the scenario shown by the Ancient One. Marvel is embracing the snap and its consequences whole heartedly, which means we can maybe see stories from alternate timelines, and the consequences of what happened in Endgame will be experienced in future movies, not just Far From Home. For example GOTG3 or Asgardians of the Galaxy will still have 2014 Gamora.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 28, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Something that is bugging me is if there are branches out there where Cap does not manage to return one or all of the time stones after the snap, creating the scenario shown by the Ancient One.


Cap is not going to other branches timelines,he went to past points in prime timeline to return stones to prevent the occurring/splitting of any timeline branches at those points.


----------



## billubakra (May 28, 2019)

Anorion said:


> Strange saw them winning in one of those 6 million odd futures (feel the number is too less, but anyway). This means that in most cases, Thanos wins. Its only in the prime timeline that the people who got dusted in the snap, get to live. The world line is curved in a closed timelike curve, which loops back into itself. The so called inconsistencies and paradoxes resolve themselves really. Each time one of two things can happen, the universe splits into two, where both eventualities take place. According to the theories of David Deutsch, there is 1/2 chance that Thanos dies in 2014, 1/2 a chance that he can execute the snap, 1/2 chance that Thor becomes fat, 1/2 chance of Ronin, 1/2 chance of Nat dying, and 1/2 chance of Stark living. In all these the prime timeline is only one. The science is actually pretty deep and solid, even if the way it is explained on screen is gibberish.
> 
> Something that is bugging me is if there are branches out there where Cap does not manage to return one or all of the time stones after the snap, creating the scenario shown by the Ancient One. Marvel is embracing the snap and its consequences whole heartedly, which means we can maybe see stories from alternate timelines, and the consequences of what happened in Endgame will be experienced in future movies, not just Far From Home. For example GOTG3 or Asgardians of the Galaxy will still have 2014 Gamora.


They should have mentioned, only for viewers with degree in astrophysics.


----------



## billubakra (May 28, 2019)

nac said:


> ^ Watch GoT final season, you will find Endgame better.


Lol heard the whole last season sucked. So glad never started watching GoT.


----------



## whitestar_999 (May 28, 2019)

billubakra said:


> They should have mentioned, only for viewers with degree in astrophysics.


You mean degree in quantum physics.



billubakra said:


> Lol heard the whole last season sucked. So glad never started watching GoT.


Read the books,just like LOTR & Harry Potter movies,the books are much better.


----------



## billubakra (May 28, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> You mean degree in quantum physics.
> 
> 
> Read the books,just like LOTR & Harry Potter movies,the books are much better.



Haan haan vahi isse kehte hai acchi marketing aur more than a billion dollars profit.
No time for the same


----------



## Flash (May 28, 2019)

billubakra said:


> They should have mentioned, only for viewers with degree in astrophysics.


Reminds me of this 

*pics.me.me/when-did-you-become-an-expert-in-thermonuclear-astrophysics-last-495874.png


----------



## Anorion (May 28, 2019)

No need for studying quantum physics only in conversation. Try making a mobius strip to solve the paradox, it really helps understand what is going on, in a concrete, physical way, not some abstract concept. The mobius strip is a closed time like curve, and this is how the paradox resolves itself.


----------



## billubakra (May 28, 2019)

Flash said:


> Reminds me of this
> 
> *pics.me.me/when-did-you-become-an-expert-in-thermonuclear-astrophysics-last-495874.png



Pardon me brother, but didn't get it :straight face:


----------



## Flash (Jun 11, 2019)

Timelines in Endgame, Explained - Oren Bell


----------



## billubakra (Aug 3, 2019)

Watched it again last night, few more doubts. Marvel ruined it pretty bad

In the end Present Captain America went to the past to various places to return the stones and he stayed in the past. If there were two captains in 1970 then how did the events of the present timeline occur? Isn't this like changing the past or adding something to it?


How did he get so so old?


The movie gave a reference to Back to the Future and it was stated the past cannot be changed. Now Thanos from 2014 came to the present timeline. Then how would it affect the events in the 2014 timeline? I mean there's no Thanos in 2014 anymore so does that mean no killings etc.?


Where did Gamora go in the end? Again she's from 2014 and bought back maybe for Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Isn't this too like changing the past?


Strange told Tony that if he tells him about the outcome it will never happen. So, why did he gives hint that this is that one possibility in the end? Again he told him before Tony actually took the stones away from Thanos. So, how did the outcome actually happen?


Continuing the 5th question, why didn't Strange give a hint or something to Tony back in Infinity War to make a gauntlet or something which won't kill a human which was to be used against Thanos? It might have saved his life. It wasn't anything related to the outcome, just a hint.


When Thanos snapped in Infinity War half of the population was dusted, which was selected randomly I guess. When Hulk snapped they came back. When Tony snapped in the end every bad guy was gone. Why not half?


----------



## Flash (Aug 5, 2019)

billubakra said:


> Watched it again last night, few more doubts. Marvel ruined it pretty bad
> 
> In the end Present Captain America went to the past to various places to return the stones and he stayed in the past. If there were two captains in 1970 then how did the events of the present timeline occur? Isn't this like changing the past or adding something to it? *Everything is a new timeline. If Cap1 from timeline1 travelled to timeline2 and stayed there, then timeline1 will have no cap at all and timeline2 will have 2cap.*
> 
> ...


.....


----------



## billubakra (Aug 5, 2019)

Flash said:


> .....


Thanks bro. More concrete info here-
Endgame
The guys have analyzed every frame of this movie there.


----------



## Anorion (Aug 7, 2019)

billubakra said:


> ....


My interpretation, could be wrong. 

1. There are two versions of Cap, one who went back in time, and another who is stuck in the ice and goes through everything that happened to cap so far. 
2. He aged like a normal person, perhaps slower
3. This is where the closed timelike curves comes into place. Both versions of events take place, in a fold or twist in time. Thanos dies in 2014, there is no snap, there is no time heist, no one kills Thanos in 2014, there is a snap, then a time heist. This series of events happen in a loop, and time flows in one direction throughout. Some theories say this is not possible, because there should be entropy over multiple repeats or loops. 
4. She just jumps into the future. This is a clever solution to what was thought to be a paradox. If you see answer to point 3, it is similar. The solution to the supposed paradox is to let the sequence of events play out, and actually there is no problem. 
5. It is supposed to motivate Stark, without telling him exactly. 
6. In the timeline where Thanos dies in 2014, Stark and Black Widow are alive. 
7. The gauntlet gives you omnipotence. Thanos wanted to kill half of all life because he thought that was the way to end suffering and save the universe from itself. Hulk got them back. Stark wanted to kill Thanos and his supporters.


----------



## billubakra (Aug 8, 2019)

Anorion said:


> My interpretation, could be wrong.
> 
> 1. There are two versions of Cap, one who went back in time, and another who is stuck in the ice and goes through everything that happened to cap so far.
> 2. He aged like a normal person, perhaps slower
> ...


AVENGERS: ENDGAME Writers Explain How Two Captain Americas Existed In The MCU At The Same Time

*"We sort of created our own time travel rules ".... lol*

'Avengers' Writers Answer If Old Steve Rogers Attended Peggy Carter's Funeral

Got answers about the rest from reddit, sala dil ko samjane vali baat hai. Worst movie of the whole franchise.


----------



## rhitwick (Aug 8, 2019)

Someday Marvel would admit they did give a damn to Physics and the movie was pure fiction with zero intention to make it obey real world rules.

Till then this thread should survive!


----------



## whitestar_999 (Aug 8, 2019)

billubakra said:


> Continuing the 5th question, why didn't Strange give a hint or something to Tony back in Infinity War to make a gauntlet or something which won't kill a human which was to be used against Thanos? It might have saved his life. It wasn't anything related to the outcome, just a hint.


I will leave the other queries as there is no definite answer but this one is easy.Stones power is too much for any human to handle so any solution for this is not possible.Hulk survived because he is not exactly human(& as per comics,his hulk power has no limits as it depends solely on his anger which itself has no limits) & Thanos was already established as the most powerful being in the universe(GOTG 1 movie Ronan's henchman quote).


----------

