# Gaming Rig in 45K



## harikt (Jun 6, 2011)

1. What is the purpose of the computer? (Note: If you are planning to say multimedia, you will have to be more specific as all types of systems are capable of doing that)
A: Gaming. Mostly gaming. I'm looking at something that doesn't make any 2011 game (including those that are yet to be released) a pain to play. Some amount of video editing and encoding.  Though not very often. 

2. Are you open to alternate ideas/products giving similar better performance but offering more VFM/ sellers? If not- why?
A: Yes I am, but I hope anyone suggesting an alternative will give me a reason better than "cuz I said so"

3. What is your MAX budget?
A: 45000. maybe 2k more if the juice is worth the squeeze. certainly not for something like a fancy cabinet.

4. Planning to overclock? 
A: Yes, though I've never done it before.

5. Which OS are you planning to use?
A: Win 7

6. How much hard drive space is needed?
A: 500 GB, 1 TB if it fits in the budget. Also want to consider an SSD.

7. What resolution will the screen run at & whats the size of the screen you want? If you already want have one and want to use it, mention its resolution and size.
A: 20" 1080P. 22" if budget can take it.

8. How would you rate your hardware knowledge from the count of 1-10? (1 being the lowest, 5 being you are somewhat in sync with the current performers and 10 being the highest)
A: 3

9. Have you ever built a desktop before or will this be done by an assembler? 
A: An assembler

10. When are you planning to buy the system?
A: I have a 1 month timeframe

11. Are you one of the types looking out for "future proof" configurations?
A: Yes. I don't want to have to get a new rig all over again. Looking for a smooth transition

12. Are there going to be any components that you don't want to include in this new rig? If yes, do mention.
A: No mouse, no UPS, no speakers, no ODD unless we're talking a Blu-Ray burner.

13. Which city do you live in and are you open to buying from shops from other city/states?
A: Mumbai. Lami. Road. I can also source components from other places if at all anyone offers a better price than Lami or stocks a rare component.

14. Mention any other points if deemed necessary
A: Ever since my AMD Turion laptop burned to death, I have cooling paranoia. Any case suggested has to take cooling as the first priority, honestly don't care if its looks make me puke.


I have a soft spot for the i5 2500k, mostly because of the rave reviews. But a bit confused because of the whole Llano-Bulldozer-Ivy Bridge thing going on. Future-proofing is important, and I may push my budget a bit more for that. 
eg. if the Llano series gives a decent graphic performance (30fps at medium settings) on most recent games, I'm willing to wait. (i.e. if the Llano can make me skip a separate graphics card altogether, that would let me wait to upgrade, right?)
But even then, I'd like a config that I can buy within a month.

I know my rig is too ambitious for the budget, but I hope you guys have some ideas.

Finally... I choose function over form. I don't mind a butt-ugly piece of machinery that does its job 1% better than something that looks cooler, or is less noisy. I can live with that 

I keep seeing highly-recommended ASRock motherboards for the 2500k, but not on Indian websites. This thing isn't available here, is it?

Looks like I just asked for too much.....


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## shayem (Jun 7, 2011)

*Component*
|
*Make*
|
*Price*
*Processor*
|Intel Core i5 2500K|10500
*Motherboard*
|GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3|9500
*RAM*
|Corsair Vengeance (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9)|2500
*HDD*
|Seagate 1TB 7200.12|2700
*GPU*
|Sapphire HD6850 1GB|9500
*PSU*
|FSP SAGA II 500|2000
*Case*
|CM Elite 310|1500
*Monitor*
|Dell IN2020M|6500
*KB+M*
|logitech/microsoft|600
|
*Total*
|45300


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## Sarath (Jun 7, 2011)

^^^nice rig up there. Does that mobo support Lucid V. I have read some of the gigabyte z68 ones dont have them? I could be wrong.

OCing that beyond 4Ghz will require seperate CPU cooler. I have got the same proc and I was told its safe to OC till >4Ghz on stock cooler but never tried.

Also for RAM you can go for G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL or its GBRL which performs more or less the same as Vengeance(in case you dont find these).

You can wait for the next gen AMD Intel procs if you want. Only time will tell if its worth it.
Since those are not out yet, cant say if the Llano will do the job of a discrete gfx well.


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## shayem (Jun 7, 2011)

Yes that mobo suppot Virtue.

G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL is 2x2Gb but RAM I suggested is 1x4GB. That means if he goes with Corsair he will have option for another 4Gb to work as duel channel.


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## Cilus (Jun 7, 2011)

shayem, could you post the link of the *GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3* motherboard link for any Indian Online shop? If it is widely available then we can incorporate it in our Pre build configs


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## harikt (Jun 7, 2011)

shayem said:


> *Component*
> |
> *Make*
> |
> ...




Thanks Shayem. 
 I have  a few questions though. 

1. I honestly did not know about the Z68 boards, and Newegg has only 8 reviews (not all positive) of this particular one. Is this chip dependable?

2. NOOB ALERT : I really know nothing about monitors, but I've heard some Dell model has '______ bleeding' issues. Is that true?

3. an i5 2500k plus hd 6850 was what I've seen recommended in many places. "Supposing" I was willing to pay the extra 4k (right?) for a 560 Ti, is that VFM?
Since AMD 's HD3D is not comparable to NVidia's 3Dvision, and I really want to try 3D... should I postpone my discrete graphics purchase altogether and work with the Intel HD3000 for now? 



Sarath said:


> Also for RAM you can go for G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL or its GBRL which performs more or less the same as Vengeance(in case you dont find these).
> 
> You can wait for the next gen AMD Intel procs if you want. Only time will tell if its worth it.
> Since those are not out yet, cant say if the Llano will do the job of a discrete gfx well.



I know... but the Llano ones are ready for release, they're just biding time, aren't they? Even with my limited knowledge, AMD isn't exactly famous for shaking up the processor scene every time it releases something, but I want to give them a sporting chance. 

Also, I keep seeing G.Skills all over the place. Does that mean they're the best, or just the most VFM?

Another Noob question : I haven't really been following the processor wars, so does AMD still have the heat issues as before?



Cilus said:


> shayem, could you post the link of the *GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3* motherboard link for any Indian Online shop? If it is widely available then we can incorporate it in our Pre build configs



And yeah, actually. This thing is entirely new to me. Thanks all so far.


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## Demon Lord (Jun 7, 2011)

1) CPU-Intel Core i5 2500k
3.3GHz-11000rs
2) RAM-Corsair Vengeance™ 4GB Single
Module DDR3 Memory Kit
(CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9)-2600rs
4) MB-Asus ROG MAXIMUS 4 GENE-
Z
-11800rs
5) CABINET-Cooler Master Elite
430-2400rs
7) MONITOR-Dell IN2020M 20
” LED-6200rs
8) HDD-1TB Seagate Barracuda
7200rpm-2700rs
9) GPU-Asus GeForce GTX560 Ti
direct cu 2-13500rs
10) PSU-Corsair GS 600-4000rs
TOTAL-52k
If u r willing to extend ur budget, as u said above


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## Cilus (Jun 7, 2011)

Don't put XMS3 modules with Sandy Bridge configs as Sandy Bridge offers best compatibility with 1.5V modules whereas XMS3 operates on 1.65V. There are incompatibility issues reported from Sandy Bridge users.


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## Demon Lord (Jun 7, 2011)

@cilus                                 yup,edited my post


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## harikt (Jun 7, 2011)

Demon Lord said:


> 1) CPU-Intel Core i5 2500k
> 3.3GHz-11000rs
> 2) RAM-Corsair Vengeance™ 4GB Single
> Module DDR3 Memory Kit
> ...




Thanks DemonLord ... but I'm retreating from the GTX560Ti

1. I loved its idle temperature, but I cant use its best  attributes on a non-HD monitor like the Dell IN2020M. Is the Benq HD 22" one highly reviewed?

2. I think I'll stick with an HD 6850, and get a Full HD monitor instead. That way my PSU doesn't need to be a 600W one also

3. Do I really need 1TB of HDD? I don't need storage space, only operating space. I already have 1.5TB in external storage. So will I need 1TB for all my installs and a few raw video files (whichever are currently being edited)

4. I need some tutorial on OC. is there a forum section that deals with it? Whats the general experience with OC'ing the i5 2500k in indian conditions? I'm not too good at understanding voltages, besides if I didnt want to OC, i could have settled for a non-K SandyBridge and a H67. Also the HD 6850 in the same rig will generate heat so that makes for quite a hot machine, doesnt it? 

Thanks again, Cilus and Demon.


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## shayem (Jun 7, 2011)

Cilus said:


> shayem, could you post the link of the *GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3* motherboard link for any Indian Online shop? If it is widely available then we can incorporate it in our Pre build configs



No  ...1 of my friend bought it from *ebay*. Price including shipping+custom.



harikt said:


> 1. I honestly did not know about the Z68 boards, and Newegg has only 8 reviews (not all positive) of this particular one. Is this chip dependable?



This one is the best bang of buck in Z68 mobos.



harikt said:


> 2. NOOB ALERT : I really know nothing about monitors, but I've heard some Dell model has '______ bleeding' issues. Is that true?



This one don't have that AFAIK.



harikt said:


> 3. an i5 2500k plus hd 6850 was what I've seen recommended in many places. "Supposing" I was willing to pay the extra 4k (right?) for a 560 Ti, is that VFM?
> Since AMD 's HD3D is not comparable to NVidia's 3Dvision, and I really want to try 3D... should I postpone my discrete graphics purchase altogether and work with the Intel HD3000 for now?



I don't know if FSP 500w can handle 560Ti with your RIG I suggested. IMO work with HD3000 for now and purchase card later.


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## Cilus (Jun 7, 2011)

shayem, Thanks a lot. I've found 2 of the Z68 mobos from Gigabyte in ebay.in. Both are supporting Lucid Virtue and come with superb feature set. I;ve posted the details in the PC buying guide section. Please have a look at it.


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## harikt (Jun 7, 2011)

shayem said:


> I don't know if FSP 500w can handle 560Ti with your RIG I suggested. IMO work with HD3000 for now and purchase card later.



Thanks for the inputs, Shayem, but I changed my mind later 

I'm going with the HD 6850 for now, since 3D requires much more investment - the glasses and a 120 Hz monitor, so you know what... screw it. The 560Ti's idle temp was what attracted me to it but, considering my usage, the card would rarely be idle. and Crysis load temperatures are nearly the same for 6850 and 560Ti.

I just hope that with the right case and CPU cooler I should keep overall temperatures reasonable, especially with room temperatures hovering between 30 and 40.


As for the monitor, I'm thinking an LED would be a better investment if I'm gaming. Am I right or wrong? And really, how dependable is BenQ? Like someone said here, the logic of clothes doesn't apply to components, but still... I've never really thought of Dell OR BenQ as good at the monitor business. Like i said my knowledge is outdated. My last Desktop was a Pentium III


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## Demon Lord (Jun 7, 2011)

harikt said:


> Thanks DemonLord ... but I'm retreating from the GTX560Ti
> 
> 1. I loved its idle temperature, but I cant use its best  attributes on a non-HD monitor like the Dell IN2020M. Is the Benq HD 22" one highly reviewed?
> 
> ...



If u think u don need that HD then take it out and with that 2700rs more u can buy either BenQ E2200HD 1920x1080 @8500rs
or
Acer H235H 23inch 1920x1080 @9k
and gpu is ur choice.
for psu i would say get a corsair vx550(v good product) @4.2k
or GS 600 @4K


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## Piyush (Jun 7, 2011)

-->BenQ E2200HD is my recommendation too

-->you can go for HD6850
its a decent card for full HD gaming, but 560 TI is the bang for buck....other way round you can get HD 6870(as 6850<6870<6950/560 TI) available in the range 11.7k-12.5k (depending upon places)

-->VX 550 is good choice here, otherwise you can go for seasonic 520W or corsair new GS 600W psu @ 4k

-->as you already have 1.5TB, i dont think you would even require a new one


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## rajan1311 (Jun 7, 2011)

Cilus said:


> shayem, Thanks a lot. I've found 2 of the Z68 mobos from Gigabyte in ebay.in. Both are supporting Lucid Virtue and come with superb feature set. I;ve posted the details in the PC buying guide section. Please have a look at it.



IIRC, Virtue works only with multi monitor setups, at least 1 monitor needs to be connected to the Onboard display output, not too sure though...can someone confirm?


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## shayem (Jun 8, 2011)

Cilus said:


> shayem, Thanks a lot. I've found 2 of the Z68 mobos from Gigabyte in ebay.in. Both are supporting Lucid Virtue and come with superb feature set. I;ve posted the details in the PC buying guide section. Please have a look at it.



Thanks   happy to help 



Piyush said:


> -->as you already have 1.5TB, i dont think you would even require a new one



Where did he say he has 1.5TB???



Piyush said:


> -->you can go for HD6850
> its a decent card for full HD gaming, but 560 TI is the bang for buck....other way round you can get HD 6870(as 6850<6870<6950/560 TI) available in the range 11.7k-12.5k (depending upon places)



only OCed GTX 560Ti can compete with 6950 else 6950>560Ti AFAIK. But 6950 can be unlocked so its better than 560Ti any way


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## harikt (Jun 8, 2011)

shayem said:


> Where did he say he has 1.5TB???



I meant I have that much in portable storage so do I need 1TB onboard?



shayem said:


> only OCed GTX 560Ti can compete with 6950 else 6950>560Ti AFAIK. But 6950 can be unlocked so its better than 560Ti any way



Aren't almost all the 560Tis overclocked anyway? I got that impression.

Also which is the best in 6850s? the Sapphire one?


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## Cilus (Jun 8, 2011)

rajan1311 said:


> IIRC, Virtue works only with multi monitor setups, at least 1 monitor needs to be connected to the Onboard display output, not too sure though...can someone confirm?



No Virtue actually works with single monitor setup. The output needs to be connected with the Onboard display output and Lucid Logic Virtue will dynamically switch between the on-board and dedicated card depending upon the nature of the application. But the main output needs to be connected with on-board output, you don't need to connect it to the Graphics card output.


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## rajan1311 (Jun 8, 2011)

thats nice..thanks cilus...


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 8, 2011)

Cilus said:


> No Virtue actually works with single monitor setup. The output needs to be connected with the Onboard display output and Lucid Logic Virtue will dynamically switch between the on-board and dedicated card depending upon the nature of the application. But the main output needs to be connected with on-board output, you don't need to connect it to the Graphics card output.



buddy the latest version of virtu allows display to be connected to discreet card.


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## harikt (Jun 8, 2011)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> buddy the latest version of virtu allows display to be connected to discreet card.



Hi Jas thanks for the inputs, many reviews talk about Virtu having an overhead. as much as 30% on Dirt 2 for example. So it eats away at the fps. now the HD 6850 is VFM, but its still not Olympic. SO if I get a Z68, I don't really need Virtu ...I can always just swap the cable from the discrete graphics to the onboard and restart right?


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## Cilus (Jun 8, 2011)

As per the new Virtue standard, you can connect the output to the Gfx card as Jas mentioned. If you don't want to run Virtue, just shut it off...it is a software and if you don't want it just close it.
Your swaping will also work but that is a hard process I guess compared to disabling the Virtue software within windows.


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## shayem (Jun 8, 2011)

Cilus said:


> As per the new Virtue standard, you can connect the output to the Gfx card as Jas mentioned. If you don't want to run Virtue, just shut it off...it is a software and if you don't want it just close it.
> Your swaping will also work but that is a hard process I guess compared to disabling the Virtue software within windows.



 no need to swap cable.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 8, 2011)

harikt said:


> Hi Jas thanks for the inputs, many reviews talk about Virtu having an overhead. as much as 30% on Dirt 2 for example. So it eats away at the fps. now the HD 6850 is VFM, but its still not Olympic. SO if I get a Z68, I don't really need Virtu ...I can always just swap the cable from the discrete graphics to the onboard and restart right?



that loss of fps was the case when you needed to connect the display to onboard gpu. 
with new version of virtu, display is connected to discreet card. so no loss of fps.

so just enjoy virtu. no white list of games. instead you get list of supported transcoding apps.


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## harikt (Jun 9, 2011)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> that loss of fps was the case when you needed to connect the display to onboard gpu.
> with new version of virtu, display is connected to discreet card. so no loss of fps.
> 
> so just enjoy virtu. no white list of games. instead you get list of supported transcoding apps.



Perfect. The Lucidlogix site isn't as helpful as you are, jas n cilus. Thanks. 

Hopefully VirtualDub is in that list...


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 9, 2011)

get this imo -



*Component*
|
*Make*
|
*Price*
*Processor*
|Intel Core i5 2500k|11000
*Motherboard*
|Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3|11500
*RAM*
|G.Skill Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL|2600
*Graphic Card*
|Sapphire HD6870|11200
*HDD*
|Seagate 500GB 7200.12|1700
*PSU*
|Corsair VX450W|3400
*Case*
|NZXT GAMMA|2000
*Monitor*
|Benq G2220HD|7000
|
*Total*
|47800
that price of 6870 is too good. try get it.


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## harikt (Jun 10, 2011)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> get this imo -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd love to get this rig... but the total comes to 50400 not 47800, looks like u missed the ram in the total. besides, this is minus the cpu cooler.  cant fit it in the budget...


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## vickybat (Jun 10, 2011)

^^ Then cut down on the mobo. Get a p67 board instead. You can find one around 8k.


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## harikt (Jun 12, 2011)

shayem said:


> *Component*
> |
> *Make*
> |
> ...





Jaskanwar Singh said:


> get this imo -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which of these Z68 motherboards are better? (D2H, UD3H)
I really don't understand motherboard specs and the Gigabyte naming scheme (UD3, D2H, UD3H, UD4, etc...) that well. And I'm trying to see
if I can shave off some money there. 

Another question I have is... Is it a good idea to go for an *XFX HD 5850* at 9600/- ? Esp. since AnandTech's Bench shows that the 5850 outperforms the 6850, matches the GTX460 1 GB and nearly approaches the 6870.

5850vs6850
5850vsGTX460 1GB
5850vs6870

Is there something about the 5850 that I should know? Since no one here recommended it..


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 12, 2011)

HD 5850 better than a stock clocked GTX 460 but go for HD 6870 when you are spending 45K



Component	Make	Price
Processor	Intel Core i5 2500K	10500
Motherboard	GA-H67MA-UD2H	7500
RAM	Corsair Vengeance (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9)	2500
HDD	Seagate 1TB 7200.12	2700
GPU	Sapphire HD6870 1GB	11200
PSU	Corsair VX450W	3400
Case	CM Elite 310	1500
Monitor	Dell IN2020M	6500
KB+M	logitech/microsoft	600
 	Total	46400
^^ this config


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## harikt (Jun 12, 2011)

Also, though I don't know much about monitors...
from what I understand, there IS no monitor with a typical contrast of more than 1000:1
And the Dynamic contrast varies between 40,000:1 to 8,000,000:1
Two monitors with the same static contrast but different dynamic contrasts, does it make a difference to gaming OR movies?

Also, since all of you seem to be using atleast 22-inch LCDs - 


> Can I get a monitor like THIS for <=10K?
> 
> 
> Full HD (mostly to future proof it), I don't want to get a monitor that won't get the full juice out of even my current (intended HD 6850) card
> ...





nilgtx260 said:


> HD 5850 better than a stock clocked GTX 460 but go for HD 6870 when you are spending 45K
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi thanks Nil but a K proc with an H67? I can ramp down the card, but I'd like a Z68 with a Full HD monitor (Is the IN2020M full HD?)


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## Cilus (Jun 12, 2011)

harikt, you have rightly pointed out the issues with the given rig. No point to put a K series processor with a H67 mobo and the Dell monitor is not a Full HD display.

HD 5850 is based on the older architecture and that has been tuned up a lot in the BART architecture. But yes, HD 5850 offers better performance than a HD 6850 and closer to HD 6870. So at a price of 9.6K (I think you got the price from deltapage.com), surely you can go with it, if you are not bothered about the older architecture and concentrate on performance.

While finding some cheaper Z68 models from Gigabyte, I've found *GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3*, available @ ebay.in at price range varying from 8.8K to 9.3K. Here is the *link*.


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## somulesnar (Jun 12, 2011)

in my opinion i wud go for this rig...

*CPU*: Intel i5-2400 -- 9.3k
*MoBo*: Intel DH67BL -- 5.5k
*RAM*: Corsair Value 4GB DDR3 -- 2.2k
*HDD*: WDC Blue 500GB -- 1.7k
*ODD*: Asus 24x DVD RW -- 1k
*PSU*: FSP SAGAII 500W -- 2.1k
*Cabinet*: CM Elite 310 -- 1.5k
*Monitor*: BENQ G2220HD -- 7.2k
*KB+Mouse*: Logitech Combo -- 0.5k
*Speakers*: your choice -- 1.8k
*UPS*: APC 600VA -- 1.7k
*Total *-34.5k
*GPU*: Sapphire Radeon 6850 -- 9.5k
*GRAND TOTAL*: --- 44k


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 12, 2011)

imo get 6870. as 5850 lacks in tessellation performance.


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## Skud (Jun 12, 2011)

Even 6850 has somewhat better tessellation performance than the 5850.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

Cilus said:


> HD 5850 is based on the older architecture and that has been tuned up a lot in the BART architecture. But yes, HD 5850 offers better performance than a HD 6850 and closer to HD 6870. So at a price of 9.6K (I think you got the price from deltapage.com), surely you can go with it, if you are not bothered about the older architecture and concentrate on performance.



yeah its deltapage. I don't know much about crossfire or SLI, but do they only work with two 'identical' cards? or can I get benefits from 2 cards of even different architectures?



Cilus said:


> While finding some cheaper Z68 models from Gigabyte, I've found *GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3*, available @ ebay.in at price range varying from 8.8K to 9.3K. Here is the *link*.



Thanks loads, Z68 is so recent, its hard to find a decent one. 




somulesnar said:


> in my opinion i wud go for this rig...
> 
> *CPU*: Intel i5-2400 -- 9.3k
> *MoBo*: Intel DH67BL -- 5.5k
> ...



The i5 2500K adds 1.2K, the  GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 adds atleast 3.3 K, I already have speakers so that subtracts 1.8K, I dont need a UPS subtracts 1.7K, and a 5850 adds 0.1K . Bringing the total to 44.9K



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> imo get 6870. as 5850 lacks in tessellation performance.



And that adds 1.6K, bringing it to 46.5K 



Skud said:


> Even 6850 has somewhat better tessellation performance than the 5850.



yes, the architecture changed, right? But is tessellation really such a big deal? Are there tessellation-intensive games?


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## vickybat (Jun 13, 2011)

^^ Hawx 2, metro 2033 and many more to follow. Go for a 6870 like others pointed. Forget the 5850 as its eol. Barts is much more optimized for future rendering techniques including tesselation.


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## Sarath (Jun 13, 2011)

^^^Most recent games might make use of the feature. Its good to have a feature that is increasingly being taken up by the developers.

You still havent finalised your configuration?


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2011)

Then Op should opt for HD 6870 if he wants good tessellation performance. The Tessellation performance of HD 6850 and HD 5850 are almost same. Check it here (although HD 6850 has optimized units but 5850 matches it due to higher number of shader processors). Now HD 5850 offers better performance than HD 6850 and my recommendation goes for HD 5850 as a better alternative than HD 6850. IF you want Tessellation performance, go and grab the Sapphire HD 6870, available @ 11.3K


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

vickybat said:


> ^^ Hawx 2, metro 2033 and many more to follow. Go for a 6870 like others pointed. Forget the 5850 as its eol. Barts is much more optimized for future rendering techniques including tesselation.



My budget is giving me dirty looks, but I'm getting greedy lol thanks for the advice.



Sarath said:


> You still havent finalised your configuration?



I gave myself a month.  better to be sure than to have post-purchase regret.



Cilus said:


> Now HD 5850 offers better performance than HD 6850 and my recommendation goes for HD 5850 as a better alternative than HD 6850. IF you want Tessellation performance, go and grab the Sapphire HD 6870, available @ 11.3K



That's where I'm stuck. Tessellation isn't all that widespread, and supposing I pop in a 5850/6850 now, can I use CrossFireX to add a better card to my rig at a later date? The GIGABYTE GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 you suggested will run at x8, will that do?
GREED is the downfall of man.....

Also, Cilus, the Ebay link you posted is a GlobalEasyBuy link. 
What are my chances of getting a defective part RMA-ed all the way from the US? 
Have any of you tried this before?


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> My budget is giving me dirty looks, but I'm getting greedy lol thanks for the advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A month??? Recommendations can get changed by that time. 

And you can safely crossfire at a later date. x8 speed on the 2nd Graphics card is not at all a hindrance. If you plan to CFX later, better stick with 6850. Cause by the time you will add a 2nd card, rest assured no 5850 will be available in the market.


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## rchi84 (Jun 13, 2011)

Hi

One thing I want to know is, why is there such an obsession for a Z68 Mobo, for a gamer's PC? I can understand if a person wants to use the IGP on the sandy K CPUs, and wanted the benefit of both OCing(P67) as well as access to the IGP (H67).

If you're a gamer though, you wouldn't bother using the onboard video capabilities anyways, and since you're investing a dedicated GPU, it makes more sense to go in for a cheaper P67 motherboard, and use the difference to upgrade to a better GPU.

In your case, the jump from a 5850 to 6870/560 Ti will be substantial, in terms of playing upcoming games at high/ultra level settings.

Think about it.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

Skud said:


> A month??? Recommendations can get changed by that time.


 I know I know... Let's say, 17 days? End of June. If the Llano proves to be as big a deal as SandyBridge my plans could be a bit shaken



Skud said:


> And you can safely crossfire at a later date. x8 speed on the 2nd Graphics card is not at all a hindrance. If you plan to CFX later, better stick with 6850. Cause by the time you will add a 2nd card, rest assured no 5850 will be available in the market.



You sure it won't be a hindrance?  cool.

And yeah I know lol the 5850 is on its way out..



rchi84 said:


> Hi
> 
> One thing I want to know is, why is there such an obsession for a Z68 Mobo, for a gamer's PC? I can understand if a person wants to use the IGP on the sandy K CPUs, and wanted the benefit of both OCing(P67) as well as access to the IGP (H67).
> 
> ...



I'm a gamer with a substantial interest in transcoding video, and I didnt know about QuickSync until much later. In short, greed.


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## vickybat (Jun 13, 2011)

*@ op*

Don't think about going for a 5850 mate. Get the 6850 or 6870 accordingly. 5850 has way more power consumption and runs a lot hotter. 

Stick with the 6 series cards.


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 13, 2011)

will HD 6870 be better or GTX 560 (Non Ti) ?


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## rchi84 (Jun 13, 2011)

@harikt Let me ask you something. Think about it before answering.

When you talk about transcoding videos, are you looking at doing transcoding for a living? I.E., are you a movie editor/movie SFX student type? If that's the case, then yes, Quick Sync is a must have.

But if you are a casual movie viewer, who likes to convert videos into various formats, because you watch them on various output devices, then even the regular Sandy Bridge processors are so fast at encoding, that your total rendering times are far lesser than the previous gen Intel/Current AMD CPUs.

Think objectively, because the money you'll spend now on your purchase will not be available for the next two years at least. What would you rather spend your money on?

1) The ability to encode a video in let's say 4 minutes with quick sync on, vs 10 minutes without it.

Or

2) The ability to play all upcoming games (for the next year atleast, till the next console refresh happens) at 4xAA, at ultra settings, at upto 1920x1200 (which is what you'll get if you buy a 560 Ti)

In short, where does your priority lie? Is it movie editing (CPU heavy choice, go for the Z68, with a weaker GPU) or gaming (Not so CPU specific, go for the p67, with a more powerful video card).

Think carefully before you make the choice. forget about bragging rights with your friends, and only consider what really matters to you.

 I am not trying to dissuade you at all. Since your answers in the template indicated that your primary preference was gaming, we are all trying to help you make the right investment for it.

cheers


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## vickybat (Jun 13, 2011)

nilgtx260 said:


> will HD 6870 be better or GTX 560 (Non Ti) ?




No they are equal but 560 has better tesselation performance owing to the fermi architecture.


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

rchi84 said:


> @harikt Let me ask you something. Think about it before answering.
> 
> When you talk about transcoding videos, are you looking at doing transcoding for a living? I.E., are you a movie editor/movie SFX student type? If that's the case, then yes, Quick Sync is a must have.
> 
> ...




Nicely put up mate.  I suggest OP to think about it.


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 13, 2011)

OP must go for GTX 560 then


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't think GTX 560 non Ti version is available anywhere in India. None of the Online shop has them I don't think it is a good idea to get one due to their higher power consumption.



vickybat said:


> *@ op*
> 
> Don't think about going for a 5850 mate. Get the 6850 or 6870 accordingly. 5850 has way more power consumption and runs a lot hotter.
> 
> Stick with the 6 series cards.


 HD 5850 consumes slightly higher power and run less hotter that HD 6850. Check it *here*.

Its power consumption is on the same range with GTX 460 1 GB version, not at all anything alarming


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

rchi84 said:


> When you talk about transcoding videos, are you looking at doing transcoding for a living? I.E., are you a movie editor/movie SFX student type? If that's the case, then yes, Quick Sync is a must have.


Not professionally, but second to gaming my biggest pastime is editing videos and gaining (personal) satisfaction out of the results... which are slightly better than the Spiderman 4-type stuff we find on youtube. But, I'm improving, so there's hope. While editing and the creative parts are a great experience, waiting for the final encodes on my Core2Duo T5800 is frankly NOT fun.
Also, thanks to my trauma with a fried Turion laptop, I like to keep the machine occupied for as little time as possible. And I have close to 300 GB of stuff thats waiting to be transcoded/edited. I understand that my experiences with older hardware may not be relevant, but I just want to be sure. 
EDIT : VERY IMPORTANT, does anyone know where I can find the Lucid Virtu transcoding app whitelist? Their website is no good.



rchi84 said:


> 1) The ability to encode a video in let's say 4 minutes with quick sync on, vs 10 minutes without it.
> Or
> 2) The ability to play all upcoming games (for the next year atleast, till the next console refresh happens) at 4xAA, at ultra settings, at upto 1920x1200 (which is what you'll get if you buy a 560 Ti)



Frankly, since I didn't know about Quicksync when i filled in the questionnaire, it was 2, since I assumed whatever does 2, can do 1 as well.
This is where I need to know about CFX. Is it possible to CFX a 5850 and (say,) a 6950 or 6970 and extract more performance at a later date? (I'm wondering cuz of the different architectures...)
What I'm saying is, if I (can) CFX these two, would it approach the performance of whatever 17K-20K card is currently available. Sure, I end up spending more in total, but I dont have to wait 2 quarters to start using the machine. That way, I can game at a slightly lower level while I wait for the funds I need to get another card. (With the 5850 we're talking a card that pumps 54 fps out of Battlefield : Bad Company 2 at Full HD max settings 4xAA so its not bad at all) I'm just bothered by the tessellation bit and the fact that AMD cards use some Morphological AA thing to get the level of AA thats achieved on better cards. And If SLI is better than CFX, I'll just get an equivalent NVidia card instead of the 5850 and play the waiting game. You guys know better so help me out.



rchi84 said:


> Think carefully before you make the choice. forget about bragging rights with your friends, and only consider what really matters to you.


 Nah I'm not concerned with bragging rights, just need the machine to do EXACTLY what I want for the money I'm paying. Sounds crazy, but yeah. That's something to brag about. The perfect rig, not the most awesome one. You guys will be a little disappointed when I post pics of it cuz I'm going for the cheapest functional cabinet I can get lol.



rchi84 said:


> I am not trying to dissuade you at all. Since your answers in the template indicated that your primary preference was gaming, we are all trying to help you make the right investment for it.
> 
> cheers



You've been real helpful, sorry about the questionnaire. I've always thought of gaming as the most resource intensive thing for a computer to do, and that everything else is decently covered by a gaming computer. Well, I cleared that misconception thanks to the SandyBridge procs 



vickybat said:


> No they are equal but 560 has better tesselation performance owing to the fermi architecture.



Tessellation. Meaning better simulation of interlocking patterns. How bad is it on AMD's cards compared to NVidia?



Cilus said:


> HD 5850 consumes slightly higher power and run less hotter that HD 6850. Check it *here*.


Yeah, also on that Anandtech link.

PS: I write stuff that may sound unrelated so that you guys need to ask less questions to figure out what I have in mind. Hope that's okay.


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## rchi84 (Jun 13, 2011)

@harikt well, making the transition from a Core 2 Duo T5800 to a sandy CPU is an astronomical shift. You'll be surprised by just how much your waiting times are reduced.

No matter, it's your money and you have the right to spend it the way you want to 

About the crossfire question, while you can crossfire two different AMD cards, the thing with crossfire is that your performance will always be held back by the slower card. So in this case, (say), you Xfire a 5850 and a 6950, then more often than not, the 6950 will wait for the 5850 to catch up, and your FPS will be closer to a 5850 Xfire result.

The better approach is to buy the best video card you can in your current budget. that way, you can always add the same card at a later stage and at a lower cost, to get better performance.

Tessellation, well I wouldn't worry too much about it tbh. There aren't many games that you'll actually notice the difference with it on or off. It's not as visible a difference, as say HDR was, seven years ago.

Again, remember, most games are still being coded for the consoles, which have very limited Tessellation capabilities. By the time game companies actually get around to making extensive use of it, there will be far better video cards on the market anyways.

I mean Crysis 2, The Witcher 2 were coded in DX 9. Know when DX 9 came out? lol 

Last point. Don't ever underestimate the value of a good cabinet. You'll be surprised how much of a difference a good cabby from a reputed brand makes, when it comes to internal temperatures and cable management. Choose a roomy cabinet that has atleast three fans and allows you to re route the cables via the sides.

Good ventilation lowers load temperatures, which increase the longevity of your system.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

About Xfire, i just found this 

*game.amd.com/us-en/content/images/crossfirex/CF_combo_chart.jpg

5850 will hold me back.
As an aside, The Witcher 2 (and Arkham Asylum) are my main intentions for this card actually.  yeah DX9 was back when a core2duo was HOT.

For the Cabinet I was thinking a CM Elite 310 or 430. Would they handle the heat generated by (hypothetically) an HD 6950 and a 2500k? Provided I have a hyper 212+ for the CPU also.


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2011)

> About the crossfire question, while you can crossfire two different AMD cards, the thing with crossfire is that your performance will always be held back by the slower card. So in this case, (say), you Xfire a 5850 and a 6950, then more often than not, the 6950 will wait for the 5850 to catch up, and your FPS will be closer to a 5850 Xfire result.



1st of all Crossfire is not possible between the cards as they belong to complete different series. Crossfire is only possible with cards of the same series to make sure that there won't be that much performance difference.

And it is not true that CF is bound by the performance of the weakest card..it was a case long before...in the 1st and 2nd gen CF setups. Now if you are Crossfiring a HD 6950 and a HD 6970. both of them will run on their own speed and the work will be distributed between them according to their processing capability. It is like 60% to HD 6970 and 40% to HD 6950 so that data processing can be finished at the same time.

i have tested it with a HD 6870-HD6850 setup and the performance is just little behind my HD 6870 CF and better than HD 6850 CF (checked the performance in 6850 CF review).


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## rchi84 (Jun 13, 2011)

^^ My Bad.. Sorry


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> Not professionally, but second to gaming my biggest pastime is editing videos and gaining (personal) satisfaction out of the results... which are slightly better than the Spiderman 4-type stuff we find on youtube. But, I'm improving, so there's hope. While editing and the creative parts are a great experience, waiting for the final encodes on my Core2Duo T5800 is frankly NOT fun.
> Also, thanks to my trauma with a fried Turion laptop, I like to keep the machine occupied for as little time as possible. And I have close to 300 GB of stuff thats waiting to be transcoded/edited. I understand that my experiences with older hardware may not be relevant, but I just want to be sure.
> EDIT : VERY IMPORTANT, does anyone know where I can find the Lucid Virtu transcoding app whitelist? Their website is no good.
> 
> ...





rchi84 said:


> @harikt well, making the transition from a Core 2 Duo T5800 to a sandy CPU is an astronomical shift. You'll be surprised by just how much your waiting times are reduced.
> 
> No matter, it's your money and you have the right to spend it the way you want to
> 
> ...




*YOU CAN'T CFX 5850 WITH 6850/6950!!!* Sorry, for the caps but this chart should be helpful:-

*sites.amd.com/PublishingImages/Public/Graphic_Illustrations/WebBannerJPEG/AMD_CrossfireX_Chart_1618W.jpg



Cilus said:


> 1st of all Crossfire is not possible between the cards as they belong to complete different series. Crossfire is only possible with cards of the same series to make sure that there won't be that much performance difference.
> 
> And it is not true that CF is bound by the performance of the weakest card..it was a case long before...in the 1st and 2nd gen CF setups. Now if you are Crossfiring a HD 6950 and a HD 6970. both of them will run on their own speed and the work will be distributed between them according to their processing capability. It is like 60% to HD 6970 and 40% to HD 6950 so that data processing can be finished at the same time.
> 
> *i have tested it with a HD 6870-HD6850 setup and the performance is just little behind my HD 6870 CF and better than HD 6850 CF (checked the performance in 6850 CF review).*




That's a really wonderful piece of information for me. I have the option for go crossfire with either of the 3 cards: 6950 1gb, 6950 2gb and 6970. Although AMD don't recommend pairing the 6950 1gb with any other card, it might be tempting to CFX my current 6950 1gb with something better.

Thanks really.


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2011)

No problem buddy, anytime @ your service


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> For the Cabinet I was thinking a CM Elite 310 or 430. Would they handle the heat generated by (hypothetically) an HD 6950 and a 2500k? Provided I have a hyper 212+ for the CPU also.



Any ideas? 



harikt said:


> VERY IMPORTANT, does anyone know where I can find the Lucid Virtu transcoding app whitelist? Their website is no good.



Also, this, does anyone know?



Cilus said:


> 1st of all Crossfire is not possible between the cards as they belong to complete different series. Crossfire is only possible with cards of the same series to make sure that there won't be that much performance difference.





Skud said:


> *YOU CAN'T CFX 5850 WITH 6850/6950!!!*



Thanks for that, I had a suspicion it wouldnt work. and thanks for the updated chart ... speaking of which, it doesn't mention the Z68 chipset, cuz its new right, not cuz it won't be supported?


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

*@harikt:* CM Elite 430 has good ventilation and you can install a total of 5 fans for good airflow. So it should handle the temps of a 6950 & 2500k. But I have a suspicion the 212+ will block the topmost fan. 

And yes, the Z68 is not mentioned because its newer, that's it.


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## Cilus (Jun 13, 2011)

Because it is new. 
And right now only supported software is Cyberlink Mediashow Esprsso video converter.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

Skud said:


> *@harikt:* CM Elite 430 has good ventilation and you can install a total of 5 fans for good airflow. So it should handle the temps of a 6950 & 2500k. But I have a suspicion the 212+ will block the topmost fan.
> And yes, the Z68 is not mentioned because its newer, that's it.



So what do I replace the 212+ with, to get better cooling than just using the 430, since I intend to OC? Or should I leave a CPU cooler for a later purchase and just stuff the 430 full of fans? Thanks about that compatibility chart again.



Cilus said:


> And right now only supported software is Cyberlink Mediashow Esprsso video converter.


Just found this


> "The three major media encoding applications that can take advantage of Quick Sync are MediaConverter, MediaEspresso, and Badaboom. By default, the first two programs are whitelisted by Virtu, but we can't get the latest version of MediaConverter 7 to transcode Blu-ray-quality video."



The Z68 is looking less and less interesting... Unless Virtu gets a better whitelist, I might just flog my 2500k/discrete GPU to do all the encoding.

A different question, if I get an NVidia card, the only way I can improve performance later without getting rid of the card is to SLI, But SLI will only work on NVidia's chipsets, that correct? So isn't CFX a way better option?


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> So what do I replace the 212+ with, to get better cooling than just using the 430, since I intend to OC? Or should I leave a CPU cooler for a later purchase and just stuff the 430 full of fans? Thanks about that compatibility chart again.
> 
> 
> Just found this
> ...




If you install 212+, let go the top exhaust fan, or get a better cabinet. AFAIK, all the current Intel motherboards which support CFX support also support SLI. Next generation AMD chipsets like 990FX also support both, so you really don't need to worry about that. But CFX are supported by all modern mobos with 2 or more graphics slot, eyes closed.


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## vwad (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> So what do I replace the 212+ with, to get better cooling than just using the 430, since I intend to OC? Or should I leave a CPU cooler for a later purchase and just stuff the 430 full of fans? Thanks about that compatibility chart again.
> 
> 
> Just found this
> ...



You said the exact things which I were thinking for last few days. Z68 is not currently the best way to go due to limited supported softwares. May be we can wait for more additions to the whitelists and also this can have dual benefit of price cuts in the near future if at all Intel decides so after the arrival of bulldozer series.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

But THIS... wow.

*images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4083/35055.png

just wow.

*hothardware.com/articleimages/Item1644/VirtuTranscode.png



The consensus seems to be that there's this *quality* and speed gap that quicksync has over competition, now if only we had a few more apps supported. I've narrowed down my choices : 

1. IF a)Z68+Virtu supports a good list of transcoding apps, and b)SLI isn't supported,  I'll take a Z68 board with a 6850/6870.
2. IF it doesn't I'll go for a P67 board and a GTX560Ti.

Sound greedy enough?  

Also.. 


Skud said:


> If you install 212+, let go the top exhaust fan, or get a better cabinet.


What about the NZXT GAMMA? Its priced between the 310 and the 430. I know zilch about cabinets.


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

Same problem. But gamma is preferable over 430 due to its cable management.


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## harikt (Jun 13, 2011)

vwad said:


> You said the exact things which I were thinking for last few days. Z68 is not currently the best way to go due to limited supported softwares. May be we can wait for more additions to the whitelists and also this can have dual benefit of price cuts in the near future if at all Intel decides so after the arrival of bulldozer series.



[rant]I really I wish I could be 'prudent' and wait. But June is the end of the wait. Any more and I'd need GPU life support. For someone who used to keep up with the latest gaming releases 5 years back, I'm still stuck in 2007 thanks to my C2D and its IGP. No AA at all, and runs nothing on even medium settings thats released post 2007. Not to mention that its a laptop that hits 75 degrees playing FIFA 08.(Okay not FIFA, but yeah it does that with some others) [/rant]



Skud said:


> Same problem. But gamma is preferable over 430 due to its cable management.



Whats a <=2K airflow/cablemanaged cab that can use the 212+, or has fans that can compensate?


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

harikt said:


> [rant]I really I wish I could be 'prudent' and wait. But June is the end of the wait. Any more and I'd need GPU life support. For someone who used to keep up with the latest gaming releases 5 years back, I'm still stuck in 2007 thanks to my C2D and its IGP. No AA at all, and runs nothing on even medium settings thats released post 2007. Not to mention that its a laptop that hits 75 degrees playing FIFA 08.(Okay not FIFA, but yeah it does that with some others) [/rant]
> 
> 
> 
> Whats a <=2K airflow/cablemanaged cab that can use the 212+, or has fans that can compensate?




Get the gamma if you are not sold on the transparent side panel. You can add fans to your case later.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 13, 2011)

@skud
u saw cable management with my 430 in the elite 430 thread in hardware q&a section? It was pretty neat with ample room left.
Plus u get feature of putting long cards and tallest coolers.
So hows gamma better choice?

@all
i dont understand why u all are recommending p67 when z68 is priced same.
U get cheapest p67 here for 9.5k and a gigabyte z68 model mentioned before is also 9.5k. Plus it gives cfx/sli option!!



Skud said:


> If you install 212+, let go the top exhaust fan, or get a better cabinet. AFAIK, all the current Intel motherboards which support CFX support also support SLI. Next generation AMD chipsets like 990FX also support both, so you really don't need to worry about that. But CFX are supported by all modern mobos with 2 or more graphics slot, eyes closed.



topgear is using 430 with 212+.
Ask him if he is using top fans.


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## Skud (Jun 13, 2011)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> @skud
> u saw cable management with my 430 in the elite 430 thread in hardware q&a section? It was pretty neat with ample room left.
> Plus u get feature of putting long cards and tallest coolers.
> So hows gamma better choice?
> ...




Jas, don't get me wrong, my point was not everybody knows how to manage cables properly nor everybody can devote time for that. So for them, Gamma is a quite a bit easier to work with. I personally prefer everything out of the sight, particularly in a case with transparent side panel, so that my hardware looks neat and clean but that's really is a personal preference. Someone might see it differently.

Regarding graphics card, except the dualGPU ones the rest should be OK in both the cases. And you really think someone will put a 6990 in a 430 or gamma for that matter? 

NZXT cases are notorious with very little space between the mobo tray and the top fan. Even the pricier guardian 921 rb and lexa s suffer from this. I don't have any concrete info regarding 430, but from the looks of it, it looks a  tight fit.. I will contact tg regarding the 430.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 14, 2011)

Skud said:


> Jas, don't get me wrong, my point was not everybody knows how to manage cables properly nor everybody can devote time for that. So for them, Gamma is a quite a bit easier to work with. I personally prefer everything out of the sight, particularly in a case with transparent side panel, so that my hardware looks neat and clean but that's really is a personal preference. Someone might see it differently.
> 
> Regarding graphics card, except the dualGPU ones the rest should be OK in both the cases. And you really think someone will put a 6990 in a 430 or gamma for that matter?
> 
> NZXT cases are notorious with very little space between the mobo tray and the top fan. Even the pricier guardian 921 rb and lexa s suffer from this. I don't have any concrete info regarding 430, but from the looks of it, it looks a  tight fit.. I will contact tg regarding the 430.




it took me 15 min~ to manage cables 

NZXT :: Unique. Unprecendented. Inspired - Gamma Product Detail
see that gamma can fit cards upto 10".

and elite 430 can fit a 5970 which is approx 12".

now i am not saying that people going for huge cards will get elite 430.

my point is, this feature has 2 benefits for people on budget  -
1. more space to work with
2. tension free to upgrade in future


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> *it took me 15 min~ to manage cables*



That's what I have said - you know how to do it, for those who don't gamma helps a bit, like modular SMPS helps. 




> my point is, this feature has 2 benefits for people on budget  -
> 1. more space to work with
> 2. tension free to upgrade in future




More space in front while nothing at back. And totally agreed with the 2nd.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 14, 2011)

Skud said:


> More space in front while nothing at back.



that is compensated by space behind HDD cage for putting cables.


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

Yeah, i know. That's why i have said more in front.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 14, 2011)

got your point skud


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## harikt (Jun 14, 2011)

Skud said:


> Yeah, i know. That's why i have said more in front.





Jaskanwar Singh said:


> got your point skud



Uh, guys? Which one do I get? Cooling is the priority. I'll learn how to manage those cables if i have to, and honestly I don't care much for a transparent side panel. 

MOAR fans!


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

If GFX card length is a priority then 430. Else whichever is cheaper. 430 even comes without the side panel which will cost a little lesser.


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 14, 2011)

2.4K without transparent side panel


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## vickybat (Jun 14, 2011)

Cilus said:


> I don't think GTX 560 non Ti version is available anywhere in India. None of the Online shop has them I don't think it is a good idea to get one due to their higher power consumption.



I don't think 560's power consumption is anywhere near alarming either. Only the zotac card had higher power consumptions whereas the asus direct cu II was rock solid.

Power consumption won't be that much of a factor while choosing the 560. Its a very good card with exceptional performance. A worthy successor to gtx 460. 

If priced around 11.5k it would be an interesting pick over 6870.


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## harikt (Jun 14, 2011)

IS ebay's Global EasyBuy a reliable option? has anyone tried it or had any experiences with RMA-ing a part?



vickybat said:


> Its a very good card with exceptional performance. A worthy successor to gtx 460.



One more card to consider *groan* Thanks vicky

Right now the way i see it, I'm considering the following cards

1) HD 6850 - original recommendation, VFM, tends to remain hot at idle, around 9.5K---}
2) HD 6870 - improvement in both performance and heat, around 11.2K----------------} *Give the best transcoding quality after QuickSync*
3) HD 6950 1GB - major improvement in both performance and heat, can unlock to 6970, around  13.5K-----} *& May work with P67*

4) GTX 560 - placed between the 6850 and 6870, but closer to a 6850 (ref clock), price unknown.------------------} *Worst transcoding quality in*
5) GTX560Ti - beaten by 6950 in Crysis, Metro 2033, STALKER, but pulls ahead in Civ5, HAWX & DIRT2, around 13.5K} *benchmarks, so will require Z68 and Virtu*

Source Anandtech and a Virtu review.


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 14, 2011)

^^ I would say GTX 560 (Non Ti) over HD 6870 & HD 6950 2GB over GTX 560 Ti

Like this

MSI HD 6850 Cyclone Power Edition/OC
MSI HD 6870 Hawk
ASUS GTX 560 Direct CU II Top
MSI GTX 560 Ti Hawk
MSI HD 6950 Twin Frozr III Power Edition/OC


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

Availability of 560 might be an issue. I am yet to find it in a online store.


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## vwad (Jun 14, 2011)

Skud said:


> Availability of 560 might be an issue. I am yet to find it in a online store.



Buy ASUS GTX 560 Ti DirectCU II Graphic Card in Mumbai India

Buy ZOTAC GeForce GTX 560 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 in Mumbai India

Nvidia, PCI E, Compare and Buy latest Nvidia, Graphics Video & Display Cards for Computer Online in India: bitfang.com


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

1st link is for the Ti version, I was not talking of that.

If the Zotac one is non-Ti, then its HUGELY overpriced!!! 

And Bitfang doesn't have any non-Ti 560.


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## vwad (Jun 14, 2011)

Skud said:


> 1st link is for the Ti version, I was not talking of that.
> 
> If the Zotac one is non-Ti, then its HUGELY overpriced!!!
> 
> And Bitfang doesn't have any non-Ti 560.



Hmm Ok. Sorry my bad.


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## nilgtx260 (Jun 14, 2011)

we cant relay on primabgb, just look at this Buy GeForce | Buy GeForce GTX 260 Sonic 216 SP 896MB | Buy GeForce Graphic Card
or Buy GeForce | Palit GeForce GTX460 Sonic Graphic Card | Buy GeForce Graphic Card

hell, how can they fix those price on those old gpu 

they didn't update at all

not recommended for price


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## Cilus (Jun 14, 2011)

Everyone, don't suggest something which is not at all available and comes under lots of if else condition.
For example this GTX 560 Non Ti discussion. It is not readily available apart from the Zotac version which is highly overpriced.

And Vicky, if it is priced @ 11.5-12K then it is a good buy.....does anyone have any idea about the price of it? The only one available is priced at 14.5K, higher than the Asus Direct Cu GTX 560 Ti version. So how can we recommend it?

And regarding alarming, there is no such cards now a day (apart from the older GTX 400 series) which actually give alarming temperature and power consumption, when compared to the performance they offer. So we have to decide it in a relative manner, not in absolute scale.


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## Skud (Jun 14, 2011)

Nice point, Cilus. The simple thing is that the 560 is simply not available. Once it become available in the Indian market we can talk about it.


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## harikt (Jun 14, 2011)

The month is still only half done, 

but I'm getting some sort of complete picture. Thanks all.




*Component	*
*Make	*
*Price*
*Processor	*
Intel Core i5 2500K	10500
*Fans	*
3 x 120mm (ITWares) or equivalents	1350
*Motherboard	*
GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 (ebay Price)	8529
*RAM	*
Corsair Vengeance (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9)	2500
*HDD	*
Seagate 500GB 7200.12	1700
*GPU	*
Sapphire HD6850 1GB	9500
*PSU	*
FSP SAGA II 500	2000
*Case*
	CM Elite 430	2400
*Monitor	*
BENQ G2222HDL	8800
*KB+Mouse	*
logitech/microsoft	600
*Total	*
47879

1. Should I buy from ebay Global? Anyone has RMA experience with this?
2. Am I correct in assuming that the 430 doesn't come with bundled fans?
3. Will the FSP Saga 500 be enough for this?
4. Where will I find/get the best prices on these components? 
5. I'll get better cooling when I fall behind the gaming performance curve, so till then will the stock CPU cooler and the case airflow manage the heat?
6. Is the G2222HDL the most VFM 22" LED in the market? Thats what I thought...Samsungs and LGs are too expensive.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Jun 14, 2011)

2. 430 comes with a front blue LED fan.
3. i suggest looking at Corsair GS600 for 4k
4. look at smcinternational.in
5. why spending on fans? you dont need them. get a Sapphire 6870 for 11200 instead. if you want 6850 only, get MSI R6850 Cyclone 1GD5 Power Edition
6. another option - DELL ST2220L for 8700


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## harikt (Jun 15, 2011)

1. No clue on ebay buying, huh? Hope someone can tell me. 



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> 2. 430 comes with a front blue LED fan.


Just that fan, right...will that provide a good airflow? Shouldn't I have some more fans when CPU is on stock cooling?



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> 3. i suggest looking at Corsair GS600 for 4k


Ups the budget another 2K.... What about the VX450W or the VX 550?



Jaskanwar Singh said:


> 5. why spending on fans? you dont need them. get a Sapphire 6870 for 11200 instead. if you want 6850 only, get MSI R6850 Cyclone 1GD5 Power Edition


I like the fan on this Cyclone, Jas..  and just 9.8k. and its almost as good as 6870. I'm in love with it 


Jaskanwar Singh said:


> 6. another option - DELL ST2220L for 8700


Looks like a good choice, reading up...


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## shayem (Jun 15, 2011)

harikt said:


> 1. No clue on ebay buying, huh? Hope someone can tell me.



No from my side.  



harikt said:


> Just that fan, right...will that provide a good airflow? Shouldn't I have some more fans when CPU is on stock cooling?



2500K with stock cooler is far better than 2600K with stock cooler in temperature comparison. So you don't need to worry much. IMO get 120mm fan and set @ back of cabi for exhaust and you are good to go for now.



harikt said:


> Ups the budget another 2K.... What about the VX450W or the VX 550?


Get GS600 in IMO else you can opt vx550@ 0.6-0.9K more.



harikt said:


> I like the fan on this Cyclone, Jas..  and just 9.8k. and its almost as good as 6870. I'm in love with it



Get Sapphire HD6870 if you don't buy fans. 6870 Worth extra money. Yes Cyclone is as good as 6870 stock when OCed not at stock. Check here. But you can OC 6870 too. So think about it. 



harikt said:


> Looks like a good choice, reading up...



With default settings G2222HDL is better than ST2220L. Saw side by side with my own eyes. Can't say about changed settings.


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## Skud (Jun 15, 2011)

harikt said:


> 1. No clue on ebay buying, huh? Hope someone can tell me.



I have recently purchased my cabinet from ebay. If you don't spending some extra then it is very good and reliable. Just buy from some reputed seller.




> Just that fan, right...will that provide a good airflow? Shouldn't I have some more fans when CPU is on stock cooling?




More fans will improve airflow but for the time being just add one at rear. Better spend the budget on 6870 as suggested. Fans are really cheap at 400-500 bucks, you can always add them later, if you fell the need.




> Ups the budget another 2K.... What about the VX450W or the VX 550?



IMO, always get the best monitor and SMPS and mobo for your budget. Rest of the components you can easily upgrade. So if possible get the VX550.




> I like the fan on this Cyclone, Jas..  and just 9.8k. and its almost as good as 6870. I'm in love with it



As stated get earlier, get the 6870. Later add a fan and dust filter to the side panel which will help in cooling the graphics card.



> Looks like a good choice, reading up...



If you are not sold on LED monitor, then get the Benq G2220HD at 7k. Else either of those two are good.


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## harikt (Jun 15, 2011)

shayem said:


> 2500K with stock cooler is far better than 2600K with stock cooler in temperature comparison. So you don't need to worry much. IMO get 120mm fan and set @ back of cabi for exhaust and you are good to go for now.


Sounds good.


shayem said:


> Get GS600 in IMO else you can opt vx550@ 0.6-0.9K more.





shayem said:


> Get Sapphire HD6870 if you don't buy fans. 6870 Worth extra money. Yes Cyclone is as good as 6870 stock when OCed not at stock.


Can't think of the 6870 @all cuz moving from the FSP SAGA to the the VX550/GS600 itself adds 2K. Can't add another 1.4K..even the Cyclone is just me paying 500 extra for the factory OC-ing and the cooling.


shayem said:


> With default settings G2222HDL is better than ST2220L. Saw side by side with my own eyes. Can't say about changed settings.


Precious data. Do you live in Mumbai...where did you see this comparison?


Skud said:


> I have recently purchased my cabinet from ebay.


Did you buy from an indian seller? that I've done too, I meant the Global buy option, where I'm getting a good GA Z68 for a good price (vs local stores). I'm just concerned about RMAs if it turns out defective or dies on me when I'm OC-ing something.


Skud said:


> Later add a fan and *dust filter* to the side panel which will help in cooling the graphics card.


Dust filter? Interesting. But there's enough slots for these in the CM 430 right?


Skud said:


> If you are not sold on LED monitor, then get the Benq G2220HD at 7k. Else either of those two are good.


I'm totally sold on LEDs, just not decided between the two of them. BenQ as a brand really doesn't register. My 15" Samsung CRT with my first PC is still going strong in its 11th year (after being carted around the country 2-3 times in sleeper class trains, too!) . And I paid less for it than I'm about to pay for this now. So I'm concerned. Quality AND durability.

I'm just being REALLY cautious about the whole thing because I don't want to fry something immediately or see it go pfft in a year or two because I OC'ed it too much or it wasn't cooled enough.

For monitors, reading this... BenQ vs Dell 22"


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## Skud (Jun 15, 2011)

harikt said:


> Can't think of the 6870 @all cuz moving from the FSP SAGA to the the VX550/GS600 itself adds 2K. Can't add another 1.4K..even the Cyclone is just me paying 500 extra for the factory OC-ing and the cooling.



Ok then cyclone it is. 



> Did you buy from an indian seller? that I've done too, I meant the Global buy option, where I'm getting a good GA Z68 for a good price (vs local stores). I'm just concerned about RMAs if it turns out defective or dies on me when I'm OC-ing something.



OOps!!! just miss it. no idea of global easypay. 



> Dust filter? Interesting. But there's enough slots for these in the CM 430 right?



I think so. There's a thread at TDF for this cabby. Check it.



> I'm totally sold on LEDs, just not decided between the two of them. BenQ as a brand really doesn't register. My 15" Samsung CRT with my first PC is still going strong in its 11th year (after being carted around the country 2-3 times in sleeper class trains, too!) . And I paid less for it than I'm about to pay for this now. So I'm concerned. Quality AND durability.
> 
> I'm just being REALLY cautious about the whole thing because I don't want to fry something immediately or see it go pfft in a year or two because I OC'ed it too much or it wasn't cooled enough.




I am currently using Benq (24"). It is good. Colors are vibrant with very little backlight bleeding. Previously I owned a Dell (18.5"). Although no direct comparison can be made due to size and res etc., colors in Dell was a bit dull. Both are equally good though. If you have reservations, go for the Dell. Ultimately you have limited options for comparisons. Its your home and not a test lab.


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## harikt (Jun 15, 2011)

So far, I've got this. have also updated where I know the source of the prices, thanks to all of you.
But some others, I need to know if I can shave off a few hundreds per component and *get the best price*.
At the same time, i want to be sure nothing in this rig will be a bottleneck. Like this RAM.
Should I get a 1333Mhz RAM with lower latency or stick with this?
Why pay for something high-end and discover that something else is crashing its party.. Excuse my ignorance.


*Component	*
*Make	*
*Price	*
*Shops*

Processor	Intel Core i5 2500K	10500	?
Motherboard	GA-Z68A-D3H-B3 (ebay Price)	8529	ebay global
RAM	Corsair Vengeance (CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9)	2500	?
HDD	Seagate 500GB 7200.12	1700	?
GPU	MSI Cyclone HD6850 1GB	9800	SMC
PSU	Corsair VX550W	4625	TheITWares
Fans	120mm fan	450	TheITWares
Case	CM Elite 430	2400	TheITWares
Monitor	BENQ G2222HDL/DEL ST2220L	8800	?
KB+M	logitech/microsoft economy keyboard/mouse combo	600	?
	Total	49904	


Skud said:


> I think so. There's a thread at TDF for this cabby. Check it.


Got it.


Skud said:


> I am currently using Benq (24"). It is good. Colors are vibrant with very little backlight bleeding. Previously I owned a Dell (18.5"). Although no direct comparison can be made due to size and res etc., colors in Dell was a bit dull. Both are equally good though. If you have reservations, go for the Dell. Ultimately you have limited options for comparisons. Its your home and not a test lab.


WISH it was a test lab, you know? I'd go for a BenQ with eyes closed if there was a reasonable price difference, cuz the specs are good, except the DCR, where the Dell wins out. Static contrast is the same 1000:1 anyway.


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## Skud (Jun 15, 2011)

harikt said:


> So far, I've got this. have also updated where I know the source of the prices, thanks to all of you.
> But some others, I need to know if I can shave off a few hundreds per component and *get the best price*.
> At the same time, i want to be sure nothing in this rig will be a bottleneck. Like this RAM.
> Should I get a 1333Mhz RAM with lower latency or stick with this?
> ...




Stick with your RAM. Check this: G.Skill Sniper 1866 MHz DDR3 Memory Kit | G.Skill,Sniper,1866 MHz,DDR3,System,Memory,Benchmark,Gaming,Performance,Review,Austin Downing,G.Skill Sniper 1866 MHz DDR3 System Memory Kit Benchmark Gaming Performance Review by Austin Downing

No need to go for lower speed, lower latency RAM.

And as I have mentioned, if you feel going for Dell, get it. Ultimately its you who will use the monitor, and unlike other parts of the computer you are rarely going to feel any bottleneck with the quality of your monitor.


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## harikt (Jun 15, 2011)

Yeah those LED monitors are mean. 
And the g2222HDL is 8.85K at theitwares, while the st2220l is 8.8K at most places, including smc. still tough to decide.


But with this above config, any way i can get the total down to at least 48k? Where do i get the 2500K for 10.5k, the vengeance for 2.5k etc? What are the delivery charges for places like Primeabgb, SMC and theitwares? 

Will I keep asking questions even after I've bought all the stuff and assembled?


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## shayem (Jun 15, 2011)

For monitor price; check *ST2220L* & *G2222HDL*. That means you are saving around 600. Put that on *TX650*. Future proof if you Crossfire in future.

And for fan get a CM *ExtraFlo* and replace it with front LED which you can put in back as exhaust. Better airflow.


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## harikt (Jun 17, 2011)

@shayem

Only way I can make any savings on buying from Lynx is to order a lot of components so it offsets the 360 (surface) or 600 (air) shipping n 2500k is 10840 on lynx, and the z68-d3h motherboard isnt available. let me have a look thru. Thanks for the info. Lynx was down for a few days I think, and I thought the site had shut shop.



shayem said:


> For monitor price; check *ST2220L* & *G2222HDL*. That means you are saving around 600. Put that on *TX650*. Future proof if you Crossfire in future.


Lynx India's shipping goes through the roof for Mumbai, man. Cant do that. So maybe SMC also will charge high shipping. Am I stuck with choosing between primeabgb and theitwares, or are there other places where I can get a bargain for this?
Also isn't VX550/GS600 enough for crossfire?



Skud said:


> Stick with your RAM.



I'm gonna ask a few things that might be at least slightly annoying. 

Suppose I can settle for non-Full HD gaming, so a 20" monitor, with a GPU that can perform well at up to 1680 x 1050, will the clarity of full-HD movies be affected ? Because if its only to do with the size of the screen, I can make do with 20". 
Cuz future proofing is killing my budget.

Also this Intel link
 says that the 2500k supports DDR3-1066/1333Mhz RAM. So would a 1600MHz RAM work/perform fully?


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## Skud (Jun 17, 2011)

I think quality of full HD movies will not be affected by 20" monitor. But I would rather urge you to get a full-HD monitor as monitors are generally one time investment and something which you can use without any issues with your upgrades and all. Better try to deduct the budget elsewhere to fit this in. If not all possible, you are not losing much for sure.

Regarding the memory support of 2500k, let someone else answer this. I haven't followed SNB much so unable to answer this question. One general thing is the memory controller is now integrated in the CPU and operate at a set speed rather than depending on the FSB. Still, higher frequency RAM should have an impact on the overall system performance.

Let someone else comment on this.


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## harikt (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks Skud 





harikt said:


> Suppose I can settle for non-Full HD gaming, so a 20" monitor, with a GPU that can perform well at up to 1680 x 1050, will the clarity of full-HD movies be affected ? Because if its only to do with the size of the screen, I can make do with 20".
> Cuz future proofing is killing my budget.
> Also this Intel link
> says that the 2500k supports DDR3-1066/1333Mhz RAM. So would a 1600MHz RAM work/perform fully?



SO ...does anyone else have any ideas??


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## shayem (Jun 18, 2011)

Check *this*, it'll clear your doubt about getting 1600MHz RAM.


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## harikt (Jun 18, 2011)

shayem said:


> Check *this*, it'll clear your doubt about getting 1600MHz RAM.


THANKS. much appreciated!


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## shayem (Jun 18, 2011)

welcome


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## harikt (Jun 19, 2011)

Skud said:


> Same problem. But gamma is preferable over 430 due to its cable management.



Coming back to cabinets - the dimensions of 

1) -Gamma = 190 X 449 X 508 mm
2) Elite 430 = 190 x 424 x 490 mm

So the ELite is 25mm less tall, 18mm less deep, but it can accommodate a bigger *GPU? Confused. Is it the way the case interiors are designed?
For now since I'm going with the MSI 6850 cyclone, which is 38 x 120 x 217 mm.
Can I use the Gamma as my short term case?


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## Skud (Jun 19, 2011)

Sure. Gamma can easily accommodate the 6850, no problems.


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## harikt (Jun 19, 2011)

Skud said:


> Sure. Gamma can easily accommodate the 6850, no problems.



Thanks but what about those dimensions... I did hear that the 430 can accommodate a 12" card but the gamma can just fit a 10" one, although the gamma is at least marginally bigger.... 

In the time that I've been silent, I was researching if I could shave the budget by getting an H67 instead of a Z68 by sacrificing on OC, since Virtu is now on it as well. But the H67 boards are severely crippled, and the DH67BL has a lot of bad rap both on newegg and in reviews. Right now I'm trying to see if I can get an ASRock Z68 PRO3 or a BIOSTAR TZ68A+, both highly reviewed and in the 5-6K range.
Words from the wise? Budget. Is a b!tch.


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## shayem (Jun 20, 2011)

That biostar comes with *2 x PCI-E x16 2.0 Slot (x16 + x4)*
And that ASRock comes with only single PCI-E slot. Both don't have froant USB.

I would say get GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 eBay if not getting locally. Good board with all features.


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## harikt (Jun 23, 2011)

shayem said:


> That biostar comes with *2 x PCI-E x16 2.0 Slot (x16 + x4)*


 I can hold off on CFX for another 2 years with an OC 6850, I hope? and a cost of around 2600 per year for a mobo (5300 approx spread out over 2 years) is decent, considering a 13000 mobo would also last me around 5 years MAX? In any case I'd upgrade in less than 5 years so what gives me more bang for my buck? Just asking... 
Also any news on the HD7000s? atleast they'll pull down the prices of the 6850s n 6870s...maybe?



shayem said:


> I would say get GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 eBay if not getting locally. Good board with all features.


I found the *D3H* B3 on Global Easy Buy (with octroi, around 9000). since there is only one z68 board on local ebay (at around Rs.9800), what experience did your friend have with the ebay purchase? was it indian seller or intl reseller?


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## Piyush (Jun 23, 2011)

for HD7xxx, wait for few months


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## harikt (Jun 24, 2011)

shayem said:


> With default settings G2222HDL is better than ST2220L. Saw side by side with my own eyes. Can't say about changed settings.



Reminds me.. Is there any place in Lami where I can actually see monitors and how they perform? Kinda like how you get to in electronics superstores?

Also, any clue on where I can snap up those Biostar/ASRock mobos?


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## shayem (Jun 25, 2011)

harikt said:


> I can hold off on CFX for another 2 years with an OC 6850, I hope? and a cost of around 2600 per year for a mobo (5300 approx spread out over 2 years) is decent, considering a 13000 mobo would also last me around 5 years MAX? In any case I'd upgrade in less than 5 years so what gives me more bang for my buck? Just asking...
> Also any news on the HD7000s? atleast they'll pull down the prices of the 6850s n 6870s...maybe?
> 
> 
> I found the *D3H* B3 on Global Easy Buy (with octroi, around 9000). since there is only one z68 board on local ebay (at around Rs.9800), what experience did your friend have with the ebay purchase? was it indian seller or intl reseller?



He bought it from an international seller who had +/- 98% +ve feedback. Don't know his name. @9800 from Indian seller sounds good. But if you can take risk you'll get GA-Z68A-UD3H-B3 @same price. So it's up to you.



harikt said:


> Reminds me.. Is there any place in Lami where I can actually see monitors and how they perform? Kinda like how you get to in electronics superstores?
> 
> Also, any clue on where I can snap up those Biostar/ASRock mobos?



I saw that in a local shop in kolkata months back. No clue on Bio/ASR mobo.

It's been long you are finding perfect rig @your budget. I would suggest wait for BD to hit market.


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## harikt (Jun 25, 2011)

shayem said:


> He bought it from an international seller who had +/- 98% +ve feedback.


Yeah, same guy. i2cworld or something. He resells from a lot of US sellers. His -ve feedback is all on HDMI cables. The expensive stuff he deals well is the impression I got. Just wanted to know if your friend had any -ve experience.




shayem said:


> It's been long you are finding perfect rig @your budget. I would suggest wait for BD to hit market.



I know. Maybe I will.


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