# Time to end  piracy....at least to an extent.



## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

Many of us(close to ninety9percent) used pirated games. Of course we used, coz they were at the cost of bomb in India...but I think GTA IV has come up with this good thing....The game is just for 450 bucks!!!! ......and check the torrents, it sizes around 13 GB, that will make 3 DVDs on pirated, that will approximately cost us 250-300.....but putting an additional 150 is giving us original game, isnt that beautiful, no need of cracks and updates and all will go smooth,......its a good thing in our country coz there has always been a rule that "price low and sales will go high", and if all the upcoming titles are priced like this, not even us but the gaming companies will be at profit.....of course count the engineers who spend years in designing a game.....
It ll give us technical supports, updates, multiplayers, and the best of all, we ll have a original game collection at our holmes, isnt that wonderful!!!!!


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## ThinkFree (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't play games. And have stopped using pirated os as well.


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## rhitwick (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't know if u guys r updated or not, but POP 3 in 1 series is selling @649.


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## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

man wen it was released, two thrones was 1499......GTA IV is 450 at release


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

So wanna end piracy, why don't you take some legal actions right here: *www.bsa.org/country.aspx?sc_lang=hi-IN



*Report Piracy here*: *www.bsa.org/country/Report Piracy.aspx


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## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

Thr is no time for legal action....against how many will u take it....system is interrelated.....no use of these links

we all have tendency to sit and wait...we think about "others are doing this too", at least that can be repaired


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## mrintech (Dec 8, 2008)

ionicsachin said:


> Thr is no time for legal action....against how many will u take it....system is interrelated.....no use of these links
> 
> we all have tendency to sit and wait...we think about "others are doing this too", at least that can be repaired


This is the case only in India, Bet you....


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## Log_net2 (Dec 8, 2008)

mrintech said:


> This is the case only in India, Bet you....



dont agree ; piracy will not end.Its is through education and rightful information that piracy can be reduced.


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## JojoTheDragon (Dec 8, 2008)

In my school we are tought about how to stop piracy but who cares no body listens coz there are many non comp users. If there is one way to stop piracy is to provide some decent free utilities & os and make it compulsory in school comp education so that children don't have search for pirated softwares. But in the case of games idont know


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## ionicsachin (Dec 8, 2008)

Look, assume case 1: WinXP Pro is 6000 bucks and case 2: WinXP Pro is 1000 bucks......i suppose microsoft will gain more in case 2, as definitely a huge number of people will buy it, at least people who have even a lil knowledge abt Piracy...problem is prices in India are very high


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## JojoTheDragon (Dec 9, 2008)

Ya this is right but what about other softwares.


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## ionicsachin (Dec 9, 2008)

Maya and 3dsmax cost a nuclear bomb


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## ruturaj3 (Dec 9, 2008)

If all games in india r release at cost 500 like GTA IV, then most of ti people will buy ti og one.


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## cyber (Jan 16, 2009)

i hav a doubt actually        we all know many piracy sites(if we type in torrent then a bunch lot will appear).even somebody who controls piracy knows his.then why no legal action is taking place???????????


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## mrintech (Jan 16, 2009)

^^^^

Jugaad.... Simple  

and 

*A Simple Disclaimer Notice works which states that:* We are not responsible for the Uploads users made here. If you find any files hosted here which violates copyright, please report us and the file will be suitably deleted within next 24 Hours  And after deletion, someone agai uploads it. No one has time to report tons of file 

This is the Power of Disclaimer Page


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## ionicsachin (Jan 16, 2009)

i think cheap softwares and open source softwares can help us fight piracy..


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## amizdu (Jan 16, 2009)

Never knew GTA 4 was selling for so less... Thanks for the info.

Now, I really want to buy this after my exams.


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## mrintech (Jan 16, 2009)

^^^

Good


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## Hitboxx (Jan 16, 2009)

Well, piracy is not just about games, it a wideload phenomenon, though you may reduce the price all you want, yet you will always find unsatisfied customers, piracy won't go away any soon, it may never go away (a scary thought), the more the pirates, the more tighter the copy protection and online activations and such mechanism get. So its an infinite loop, the only thing you can decide is on your personal level, which pill would you take, the red one or the blue?


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 16, 2009)

rhitwick said:


> I don't know if u guys r updated or not, but POP 3 in 1 series is selling @649.


3 in 1 series ? you mean all the three games together ?
*can somebody please tell me how POP works under the latest version of WINE ? *


ionicsachin said:


> Maya and 3dsmax cost a nuclear bomb


But atleast maya is giving a free PLE version. And in cases of software, alternatives exist. But nobody is going to make a free PoP clone for you, rest assured.

*Another great game is Unreal Tournament 2004. Runs on all PCs, Runs on Linux, Macintosh and Windows, costs Rs. 500 and has around 100 good quality freeware mods to continue playing forever.*


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 16, 2009)

Piracy Rocks 

See piracy is in ur (most of us) blood  

also piracy is Green

the cause of piracy is ur attitude.....so only change in attitude can stop piracy..nothing else can.the copy protection,copyright are craps.....there is always a genius to crack something somewhere for someone


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## amitava82 (Jan 16, 2009)

gopi_vbboy said:


> Piracy Rocks
> 
> See piracy is in ur (most of us) blood
> 
> also piracy is Green


WoW I wonder what kinda blood you have that made you a proud thief. Talk about yourself.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 16, 2009)

i think the GTA is some <9.6GB x 2        ..........which might come in 4 DVDs in piracy world, coz they never saw dual layer thing.....that might cost 300-400 bucks...so its far better if one invests little more and go for original...

Right now i think its the first time any game was sold in large number of copies(original)....definitely the GTA ppl might have earned more rather than wat they wud have earned if the proce was 1500


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 16, 2009)

Will GTA 4 run in my configuration  (Radeon Xpress 1250 @ 1440x900?? I think not. , but at least a 800x600 I hope.(I could run COD4 at that).



MetalheadGautham said:


> 3 in 1 series ? you mean all the three games together ?
> *can somebody please tell me how POP works under the latest version of WINE ? *


+1.
Also for GTA IV as well. 

I'm asking this because it would be funny if I run original games in a pirated version of MS Windows.

I already play original Orange Box games in WINE.



> But atleast maya is giving a free PLE version. And in cases of software, alternatives exist. But nobody is going to make a free PoP clone for you, rest assured.
> 
> *Another great game is Unreal Tournament 2004. Runs on all PCs, Runs on Linux, Macintosh and Windows, costs Rs. 500 and has around 100 good quality freeware mods to continue playing forever.*



Is UT a single player game as well?

Similar to the Orange Box I guess, HL2, HL2E1, HL2E2, Portal, Team Fortress 2, as well as addition like Lost Coast + so many mods to play (particularly Minerva rocks). @ 999 or even less.

EDIT:
*appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14723&iTestingId=34390


> GTA4 does not work under Wine



I guess if I buy that game, I would have to buy Windows @ Rs.5000/play it in Pirated Windows...
Bah Microsoft...You deserve to be pirated...


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## moshel (Jan 16, 2009)

i got the original GTA IV myself as it was damn cheap @ just Rs. 499/-.....the greatest benefit is multiplayer games....and it rocks...

even i thought the same as many of u thought....in the pirates world it would cost Rs. 400/- so why not buy original for 499/-....

i wouldnt mind moving towards buying originals only if all games cost Rs. 499/-

as for someone saying abt POP 1, it does not make sense as its too old....games like GTA IV are the latest and ppl around the world are playing it right now...so u get the benefit of multiplayer...

and really the only benefit of buying original games is the multiplayer gameplay...and the worst part is that we need to have the disc in the drive at all times.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 16, 2009)

Anurag_panda said:


> Will GTA 4 run in my configuration  (Radeon Xpress 1250 @ 1440x900?? I think not. , but at least a 800x600 I hope.(I could run COD4 at that).


GTA4 is cheap but it definitely needs a good Graphics Card to run.
I guess in future, most GPUs which can play it at good settings may bundle it with the card. Rs. 450 investment for a best-seller game with the GPU sounds quite attractive.




> +1.
> Also for GTA IV as well.
> 
> I'm asking this because it would be funny if I run original games in a pirated version of MS Windows.


Lolz. Same case in my mind. GTA IV needs Vista I heard.



> I already play original Orange Box games in WINE.


Whats the quality ? And how are orange box games ?



> Is UT a single player game as well?


Single Player, BOTS and Multiplayer. It has mods which include the famous Red Orchestra, Tactical Ops (a counter strike clone), etc all of which are endlessly entertaining but free. A DragonBallZ mod is also in the working and would be released for free soon.



> Similar to the Orange Box I guess, HL2, HL2E1, HL2E2, Portal, Team Fortress 2, as well as addition like Lost Coast + so many mods to play (particularly Minerva rocks). @ 999 or even less.



How is orange box ? what are its games like ? is it by steam ? but isn't steam already planning a linux port of all its games ? should I wait till then ?



> EDIT:
> *appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=14723&iTestingId=34390
> 
> 
> ...


lolz...
I think you should buy the game and install it in Windows 7 Beta testing version. Shantanu claimed that it gave gr8 performance b00sts.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 16, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> WoW I wonder what kinda blood you have that made you a proud thief. Talk about yourself.



 pirate blood ...i was kidding..u taking so seriously...r u any GTA fanboy or what.....  there is no way u can stop piracy coimpletely...this is a fact...but can be minimised....when the basement has a flaw why does one talk abt strength of structure relying... ur digital system today itself can be reverse engineered by many means...thats the problem


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## R2K (Jan 16, 2009)

i hope softwares also become that cheap someday


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## amitava82 (Jan 16, 2009)

gopi_vbboy said:


> pirate blood ...i was kidding..u taking so seriously...r u any GTA fanboy or what.....  there is no way u can stop piracy coimpletely...this is a fact...but can be minimised....when the basement has a flaw why does one talk abt strength of structure relying... ur digital system today itself can be reverse engineered by many means...thats the problem


Nope I did not. It just surprise me how some people take pride of stealing something. It's just human psychology. Some people don't steal because of moral and some people don't just because of law and fear. Assuming there are no law and fear of getting caught, all it takes moral to decide steal and not to steal.


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 16, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> Nope I did not. It just surprise me how some people take pride of stealing something. It's just human psychology. Some people don't steal because of moral and some people don't just because of law and fear. Assuming there are no law and fear of getting caught, all it takes moral to decide steal and not to steal.


+1. I have a friend who is just like that. He proudly claims that he has lakhs worth of software/games all pirated. He enjoys writing batch files to automate the cracking. To him, some group called "N-H-A-N-C-3" (atleast thats how he pronounces it) are the greatest guys ever. He wants a Pirate Bay T-Shirt for his 18th birthday.

Piracy when forced is one thing, but THIS is something at a much different level.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

Yeah, the worst thought is "why shud we stop wen others do it" ....we must remove that thing from our minds, almost for every retail application there is a similar Open Source available


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 17, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> Nope I did not. It just surprise me how some people take pride of stealing something. It's just human psychology. Some people don't steal because of moral and some people don't just because of law and fear. Assuming there are no law and fear of getting caught, all it takes moral to decide steal and not to steal.



piracy is not stealing....its sharing..there is difference in stealing n sharing...   piracy is not communism like what u say...none is forced to share


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## Kl@w-24 (Jan 17, 2009)

^ ^ ^ LOLwut???


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## amitava82 (Jan 17, 2009)

gopi_vbboy said:


> piracy is not stealing....its sharing..there is difference in stealing n sharing...   piracy is not communism like what u say...none is forced to share


You sir are genius. Could you please explain your theory? No wait, how old are you again?


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

Sharing.....dude u cant share anything unless it is corporate multi user edition


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 17, 2009)

^^ im 20.......u ppl goin offtopic...

see piracy is becoz of ditribution architecture of software in market...the copyright protection jus a joke.....how we talk abt elimination of piracy...

jus buying gta games is good...but to what xtent can it help to eliminate piracy..........who knows  the copy purhased may be circulated among internet with patches.......that how piracy starts...

when we can have flawless copy-protection then then is a scope for talking abt this topic


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## kanishka (Jan 17, 2009)

^completely agreed with you..


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 17, 2009)

MetalheadGautham said:


> GTA4 is cheap but it definitely needs a good Graphics Card to run.Whats the quality ? And how are orange box games ?
> How is orange box ? what are its games like ? is it by steam ? but isn't steam already planning a linux port of all its games ? should I wait till then ?


Games for Valve are generally known for their quality. Half Life 2 needs no introduction, while Episode 1 is decent enough, Episode 2 is pretty good. While Portal gives you a totally unique gameplay. TF2 I haven't played myself.
You can see HOWTO here:
*www.fsckin.com/2007/10/15/how-to-run-team-fortress-2-half-life-2-hl2-ep-12-in-ubuntu-using-wine/

The guys at Phoronix reported that Steam may be ported to Linux but I don't think it'll happen too soon. I am pretty sure since Games are already registered at Steam, no matter what, they'll still remain registered no matter what OS you choose, so I'm pretty sure separate version for Linux need not to be purchased.



> lolz...
> I think you should buy the game and install it in Windows 7 Beta testing version. Shantanu claimed that it gave gr8 performance b00sts.


I'm considering this... Unfortuantely I can't download it though, it'll kill my 4GB Cap. 



ionicsachin said:


> Sharing.....dude u cant share anything unless it is corporate multi user edition



...and open source software.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

Dude, everything begins from small things like buying this game for 450 bucks....many people in this community and everywhere else in India are getting aware abt piracy and its ill effects now...now or then it will be finished only if WE begin it, so our younger brothers and sisters will learn it....and MAYBE we will have a "genuine" future


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 17, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> Nope I did not. It just surprise me how some people take pride of stealing something. It's just human psychology. Some people don't steal because of moral and some people don't just because of law and fear. Assuming there are no law and fear of getting caught, all it takes moral to decide steal and not to steal.



In spite of the fact that I'm against piracy I would say piracy is not stealing. Stealing is the word which which mindless corporates use.
In stealing you are actually taking away something from somebody. Say someone who stole from a Jewelery shop, he has TAKEN AWAY something and as an end result the original owner has been deprived of it. But in case of piracy no body actually loses anything.
Say for instance Maya is above one lakh or something. Will the pirate ever BUY it. Definitely not.  Does an original licensee lose his software? No again.
In fact by piracy, companies help in getting the free marketing by word of mouth, a fact even Bill Gates admitted in China.
For most of us, piracy is a phenomenon by which corporates do not get their extra pocket money at the end of the month.

But yes, being proud of piracy and pirating for the heck of it is uncool as well.



gopi_vbboy said:


> ^^ im 20.......u ppl goin offtopic...
> 
> see piracy is becoz of ditribution architecture of software in market...the copyright protection jus a joke.....how we talk abt elimination of piracy...
> 
> ...



Copy protection is one of the ways which companies displease their original clients IMO.
Setting right price(say  Rs. 400-1000) for games is only the right way.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

@anurag_panda
dude, what if u make a software and spend 5-6 years and countless hours daily with a huge team.....and later your software sells not even for 1% of its price....you can feel it only if u r a software developer


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## amitava82 (Jan 17, 2009)

Anurag_panda said:


> But in case of piracy no body actually loses anything.


O RLY? Probably you want to do little more research before you make stupid assumptions.


Anurag_panda said:


> Say for instance Maya is above one lakh or something. Will the pirate ever BUY it. Definitely not.


Maya is not for individuals. If you really want to learn, go get PLE. Don't give stupid excuses.


Anurag_panda said:


> companies help in getting the free marketing by word of mouth, a fact even Bill Gates admitted in China.


If a company wants to do marketing, they would give it for free. You don't have to steal it.


Anurag_panda said:


> For most of us, piracy is a phenomenon by which corporates do not get their extra pocket money at the end of the month.


There is nothing called "extra cash" in business. 


Anurag_panda said:


> But yes, being proud of piracy and pirating for the heck of it is uncool as well.
> Setting right price(say  Rs. 400-1000) for games is only the right way.


Games are already 50% cheaper in India then US or EU.


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## NucleusKore (Jan 17, 2009)

If you want piracy to end promote the adoption of FOSS


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 17, 2009)

^^ ya i agree...that was result of the distribution of unix in 70-80's ...which was forbidden to share......when geeks formed GNU/Linux to give freedom of customisation n sharing

but observe there isnt that much piracy in commercial edition of linux AFAIK like Redhat


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 17, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> O RLY? Probably you want to do little more research before you make stupid assumptions.


I think you are the one making stupid assumptions. Say for instance  Mr. X, wants to use a software, and his pirate friend gives him a copy of Office 07 Professional and he uses it. Now say if his friend gives him OpenOffice, and he uses it.
In both these scenarios, Microsoft doesn't earn anything at all. If fact whatever Mr. X gets, he will get used to it and if friends ask for it, he'll probably recommend the same, and by word of mouth that software would be spread. In case he chooses to use the pirated copy of MS Office, in fact Microsoft gains because he is dependent on their software and would magnify the technological dependence Microsoft has on the world. In case He goes OpenOffice way, Microsoft would actually lose out his dependence. Imagine what happens if all those pirated users of MS Office move to OpenOffice, there would be no bigger loser than Microsoft.
Thus with increased technological dependence, companies can target corporates who have to buy original software.



> Maya is not for individuals. If you really want to learn, go get PLE. Don't give stupid excuses.


I was only giving an example, I don't need Maya.


```
If a company wants to do marketing, they would give it for free. You don't have to steal it.
```
I say again Piracy is an illegal activity but not stealing, read my previous post properly.
And they can't give the same for free. They would lose that cash they earn already. Here they already get cash and marketing, why they'll choose to get marketing alone.
Anyway corporates and OEMs are the main clients of software companies, who don't pirate anyway.


```
There is nothing called "extra cash" in business.
```
That's not the consumer's business.



> Games are already 50% cheaper in India then US or EU.


Exactly why I brought an original copy of the Orange Box.


Have you ever wondered why companies haven't been able to stop piracy? I am pretty sure it is not impossible to stop piracy. Every problem has a solution but companies don't want the solution.


As a side note, I do not pirate. I only use free and OpenSource software.
Also, I think you should be more polite while making online discussion.  Give respect to others, and you'll get respect.
And BTW Do NOT take my quotes out of context, like you did in my your first quote of mine.



ionicsachin said:


> @anurag_panda
> dude, what if u make a software and spend 5-6 years and countless hours daily with a huge team.....and later your software sells not even for 1% of its price....you can feel it only if u r a software developer


I know. That is why I chose to buy original orange box.
But guess what what would be worser? If nobody uses my software, at all.



NucleusKore said:


> If you want piracy to end promote the adoption of FOSS


Exactly. FOSS for the way...

Incidentally the worst victims of piracy is FOSS itelf.


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

piracy ftw !


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## krazzy (Jan 17, 2009)

Don't look at me. I use original Windows 7 Beta.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

Anurag_panda said:


> I think you are the one making stupid assumptions. Say for instance  Mr. X, wants to use a software, and his pirate friend gives him a copy of Office 07 Professional and he uses it. Now say if his friend gives him OpenOffice, and he uses it.
> In both these scenarios, Microsoft doesn't earn anything at all. If fact whatever Mr. X gets, he will get used to it and if friends ask for it, he'll probably recommend the same, and by word of mouth that software would be spread. In case he chooses to use the pirated copy of MS Office, in fact Microsoft gains because he is dependent on their software and would magnify the technological dependence Microsoft has on the world. In case He goes OpenOffice way, Microsoft would actually lose out his dependence. Imagine what happens if all those pirated users of MS Office move to OpenOffice, there would be no bigger loser than Microsoft.
> Thus with increased technological dependence, companies can target corporates who have to buy original software.
> 
> ...




Look, of course piracy is making the software famous and somewhat getting fame and base for the company and software, but its like militants making AK-47 famous...
Abt the Office part, any commercial software is like ur driving licence, u can give it to ur friend for riding, but he cant own it, and if he gets caught he'll have date with police... Microsoft wont earn anything if people use OpenOffice, but if they use original MS Office(i agree its too costly) it will earn....now if no people use MS Office it will be like a business fall, not a fall by piracy....If a company's product doesnt sell then they ll have to take some other steps, like reducing price, adding offers and all...many of us just got used to piracy, but it is declining the industry badly...imagine those billions of copies of pirated games, if they were sold in retail then companies wud have earned lot more and maybe got us some better game in future....maybe thats one of the reason why Need For Speed series is declining....
It is STEALING, the licence actually binds the person who buys the software as "only his and no one else's" , thats what the product key differentiates him from others...now if one person buys a land and allows other to use it, then he is a big fool, not only he is giving away his land but also not allowing other people to buy there own lands...thus slapping the economy
Companies are looking hard for solutions....they are not able to implement the high securities coz it is a pain in neck for genuine users, today one has to pass many security checks and online activations for the softwares, any genuine user wont like that....thats why companies dont want their softwares to be painfully overgaurded...


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

Playing GTA 4 make you virtual goons, so its like giving ak47 in real life will make you 14 carat gangsta sh!t...loooooool


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

@t159
Now thats an exaggeration


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

What does a releaser get after releasing a release ?
What does a ripper get after ripping a movie ?
What does a cracker get after cracking a software ?

What does Robin Hood get after looting riches ? 
And how similar is the word pirate to the above ?


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

i wonder if all 3175 posts of urs are like that


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

^^Yes, my english is very poor !


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

"Stick to the topic"-ability too


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

^^But it's related to topic and it's fight club !


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

yeo bro

What do u feel abt "anurag_panda"'s post..


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

Using open source software is one of the most effective method to reduce piracy.

But IMO piracy can't be uprooted completely. In fact, it will make the internet as bland as a wall without texture. Not many have privilege to have everything, and thats where piracy helps. You get to know things that you couldn't coz simply you are  stratified into a lower income group as opposed to the wealthy 20% sh!tes who are capable of being prodigal son.

When the whole world itself is an irony then how come one comment upon piracy.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 17, 2009)

offtopic: @T159-u have a nice horse


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## Faun (Jan 17, 2009)

^^It's *Monkey Majik*


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## amitava82 (Jan 17, 2009)

arrrgggggggghh.. So assuming you have a software company and some publisher from US published your newly developed cool game which took 3 years and 100 developers to develop. Now someone bought a copy and made it available on internetz. Now, everyone starts downloading the game and you sold merely 50 copies.

So, according to you, you get free marketing. People know about your cool game but where is the cash you are talking about? What happens next? You go bankrupt since you could not recover your investment (I hope you know intangible objects also has production cost since according to you "stealing" applies to only tangible objects), your 100 developer lose job, some of them may suicide without any job since other companies too laying off, government loses tax revenue, that foreign publisher would never invest invest in your country again so, there goes your FDI, ultimately GDP goes down and I can go on.

Nevermind, bunch of 15 year kids I'm arguing with.. I'm not gonna teach you business and economy.. Go read yourself.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

hey...i m out of the bunch


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 17, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> arrrgggggggghh.. So assuming you have a software company and some publisher from US published your newly developed cool game which took 3 years and 100 developers to develop. Now someone bought a copy and made it available on internetz. Now, everyone starts downloading the game and you sold merely 50 copies.
> 
> So, according to you, you get free marketing. People know about your cool game but where is the cash you are talking about? What happens next? You go bankrupt since you could not recover your investment (I hope you know intangible objects also has production cost since according to you "stealing" applies to only tangible objects), your 100 developer lose job, some of them may suicide without any job since other companies too laying off, government loses tax revenue, that foreign publisher would never invest invest in your country again so, there goes your FDI, ultimately GDP goes down and I can go on.
> 
> Nevermind, bunch of 15 year kids I'm arguing with.. I'm not gonna teach you business and economy.. Go read yourself.



First of all your assumption is faulty. A pirate will 99% NEVER be a real consumer EVER no matter whatsoever. They will NOT buy the software.
Consider if Microsoft makes Windows 7 absolutely piracy proof. What will happen? Do you think everyone will buy the original copy? Nope. Most of them will stay with older version and some may even move to Linux/*BSD/Solaris.
Don't believe me? Maybe start a new thread with a poll.

So many companies have have released games and most of them are victims of piracy. In fact most of their games copies are pirated they lament. But companies going bankrupt due to piracy has been rare, if any at all. Bankrupcy happens mainly due to factors like complete failure of a product, aberration of funds, and poor corporate governance.
As for your case if that game is good enough, it will surely get consumers. Not all people choose to pirate, you know. There are plenty of buyers of the original anyway.  But If that game sucked, even pirated users won't play them...
As for non-gaming industry, the corporates are the main targets, and they don't/can't pirate anyway...

BTW your lack of reading the preceding posts and the manner you post yours, cements who the kid here really is.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

I use following:-
Windows Vista Home Premium(Genuine) and Windows 7 beta
VLC Media Player
OpenOffice
Firefox
Audacity
and many google products...

And feel much better then using pirated(like how i used office 2003 before).....ofcourse i miss the softwares i used before, but this feels much better


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 17, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> I use following:-
> Windows Vista Home Premium(Genuine) and Windows 7 beta
> VLC Media Player
> OpenOffice
> ...


That's very good. 
I got rid of piracy on my PC in a different fashion though:
Linux OS (currently OpenSUSE) after removing old pirated Windows
OpenOffice
The GIMP
Opera
etc. etc.
and yes my original Orange Box.

Funny thing is actually I dont miss Windows at all (except the games which don't run on WINE  )


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## ionicsachin (Jan 17, 2009)

Man Windows is not that bad...its just too overpriced....more then double of what it shud be


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## Faun (Jan 19, 2009)

amitava82 said:


> arrrgggggggghh.. So assuming you have a software company and some publisher from US published your newly developed cool game which took 3 years and 100 developers to develop. Now someone bought a copy and made it available on internetz. Now, everyone starts downloading the game and you sold merely 50 copies.
> 
> So, according to you, you get free marketing. People know about your cool game but where is the cash you are talking about? What happens next? You go bankrupt since you could not recover your investment (I hope you know intangible objects also has production cost since according to you "stealing" applies to only tangible objects), your 100 developer lose job, some of them may suicide without any job since other companies too laying off, government loses tax revenue, that foreign publisher would never invest invest in your country again so, there goes your FDI, ultimately GDP goes down and I can go on.
> 
> Nevermind, bunch of 15 year kids I'm arguing with.. I'm not gonna teach you business and economy.. Go read yourself.


Government is backed up by Churches  and stupid nuts.  

And not every person knows to pirate a software. Dont even know what a torrent is or a crack is. 

Let us assume that you have two movies to choose and you like one of them really. But you got cash for only one. Then most probably you will get one and rest at home watching it. And dont even give a sh!te about the other one. 
But if your friend shares the another movie with you then you will certainly watch it for the sake of watching. If you are a purist then you will pay for it sometime. 

If what you say is piracy then uploading videos with audios of artists will too be labeled as piracy. Even hearing song from someones earphone will be piracy. Internet is a big home now, and you can possibly share what you get  

And why should one buy a DRM sh!te when there is a much better copy available without any restrictions. Of course, companies are supposed to be intelligent with their piracy reduction plan. But they do stupid things which ultimately frustrates consumers.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 19, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> Man Windows is not that bad...its just too overpriced....more then double of what it shud be



Not bad...yes...but why should I pay Rs.4000+ for an OS, when I could get such high quality open source software for free.
If MS sets Vista Home Basic Price < Rs.2000, then only I'll consider buying it...


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## rohan_mhtr (Jan 19, 2009)

Piracy  will only stop if software prices are reduced . Companies like microsoft     only want their shareholders to get richer and hence the higher price , also indias tax system on software products is not good . Prices of software product will fall if the tax structure is changed , my friend has a small software firm in mumbai and he has to pay about 21% tax on each product he sells .


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## RMN (Jan 19, 2009)

i was surprised to see the price of the original DVD(GTA4).....500bucks is good.fakes ones cost 200!
i don't mind spending that amt for good games.
i thought it would cost 2k or so.!

and i don't think that piracy harms any company....if that was the case then 50Cent and Jay-Z would have been driving a Corolla by now.


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## moshel (Jan 21, 2009)

everyone here is saying that we should use open source software.....how would that help, i dont understand.....

for eg. lets say im using a pirated version of MS office......cos i dont have money or rather dont feel right paying 21K for the MS office Suite......so i download Open Office for free and use it......

so what does microsoft gain from this?
If u say that im stealing Microsoft money by using their software and not paying for it, and i should move to open office, in that case too microsoft is losing money, cos im STILL not buying their software.

u know wat, everyone in this world should start using open source, so companies like microsoft, EA, rockstar, etc etc....who charge so much money for their softwares shut down due to which the '000s of employees of these companies become unemployed.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 22, 2009)

^ In that way the company will be losing money coz of its selling strategy, NOT BECAUSE OF PIRACY. If such happens then Microsoft will have to slash the prices.

and
EA, Rockstar???????


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## pr.itdude (Jan 22, 2009)

piracy is not mere about using an unpaid or illegally downloaded software or games......!!!
its also about pirated movies dvd and musics........if v google for any song.....v find hundreds of sites offering u free download......!!! how can we stop it....!! Screening version of movies r available on net before being actually released...!! And dvd's (pirated) of every movie is out on the release date .....Palika bazaar (of delhi) is flooded with lakhs of pirated cd's/dvd's of movies, musics, games and s/w......mere using open source dont affect any bit of piracy. And MS, EA etc etc cant slash their rates to the price of a pirated dvd.......they r also doing for earning some bucks......!!! Its apart from their reach.........hehe


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## Faun (Jan 22, 2009)

moshel said:


> u know wat, everyone in this world should start using open source, so companies like microsoft, EA, rockstar, etc etc....who charge so much money for their softwares shut down due to which the '000s of employees of these companies become unemployed.


It will help in creating new jobs too, and a bit of independence and probity 
Why ?
Because even though open source things are free but still we can open a lot of service centres, customer care and other customization centres for them. Even lots of media shipping companies will come up.

This will actually be a good step for us. We will not be dicked every now and then by falling economy in US (cuz of outsourcing we suffer).

Just thing about how wordpress became so popular ?


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## ionicsachin (Jan 22, 2009)

@pr.itdude
Now take two cases
MS Office is 20000 bucks and MS Office is 2000 bucks....
now if 100 users buy the first case and 1000 users buy in the second case the extra zero will be compensated for MS....
The same thing happened with GTA IV


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 22, 2009)

moshel said:


> everyone here is saying that we should use open source software.....how would that help, i dont understand.....
> 
> for eg. lets say im using a pirated version of MS office......cos i dont have money or rather dont feel right paying 21K for the MS office Suite......so i download Open Office for free and use it......
> 
> ...


Open source generally doesn't challenge games, period.
And about MS, etc. being closed due to Open Source? Gosh! I'll love it. Their developers will only have to shift their jobs (as due to use of more open source software, there is more demand for progress, and services in open source companies and more jobs in them), no innocent user would be called a "thief" just for using a service which is actually in a sense "forced"/"expected to be used" among them.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 22, 2009)

No one is "forced/expected" to use a piece of software, its a dream of everyone from a panipuri stall man to a giant company owner that everybody uses their product


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 22, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> @pr.itdude
> Now take two cases
> MS Office is 20000 bucks and MS Office is 2000 bucks....
> now if 100 users buy the first case and 1000 users buy in the second case the extra zero will be compensated for MS....
> The same thing happened with GTA IV



Actually there is MS Office Home and Student Edition about Rs.2000-3000 AFAIK. I dunno what it lacks in comparision to the full edition though.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 22, 2009)

Thats wat is not known abt our minds.....wen we use something pirated we want it full(like utimate, professional of Vista and XP)


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 22, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> Thats wat is not known abt our minds.....wen we use something pirated we want it full(like utimate, professional of Vista and XP)


Very, very true. 
Yes. But the fact is that we don't even use those features. हमें सिर्फ़ लालच आता है.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 22, 2009)

haan...we never use most of the features, Maya PLE teaches us any and everything, but we download Unlimited version for no use


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 22, 2009)

I stopped using MS Office completely because MS keep dropping support for older formats, while ODF is standardised. I honestly don't understand what hype both get. I don't see much difference between writer and word.


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## gxsaurav (Jan 23, 2009)

^^^ you obviously don't know the benefits of a good UI.



Anurag_panda said:


> Actually there is MS Office Home and Student Edition about Rs.2000-3000 AFAIK. I dunno what it lacks in comparision to the full edition though.



Office 2007 Student & Teachers edition is available for Rs 3,500 in Nehru Place. It only has Word, Powerpoint & Excel 2007 & nothing else. This is all that regular users will need in a home anyway.

We are indeed greedy, this is why I advice everyone to buy Vista Home premium & not ultimate.


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## sakumar79 (Jan 23, 2009)

^^^ Not to mention the fact that Home and Student Edition is not licensed for commercial usage. For the home user, I would recommend OOo instead of MS Office because it satisfies the basic requirements... For a Student, maybe MS Office may be necessary based on course requirements, otherwise, OOo should suffice...

Arun


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 23, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> ^^^ you obviously don't know the benefits of a good UI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are the Word, Excel and PowerPoint same as in the Professional Edition or  have they been striped down a bit?


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## gxsaurav (Jan 23, 2009)

Anurag_panda said:


> Are the Word, Excel and PowerPoint same as in the Professional Edition or  have they been striped down a bit?



They are same. You can indeed buy it cos Office 2007 is so good in ease of use that general home users won't even need to upgrade to office 14 in most cases


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## IronManForever (Jan 23, 2009)

I am thinking of buying original Windows and MS Office Student's edition. Was put off by the requirements of Vista. Will buy Windows 7 after it comes out. For now I have Mac OSX. 

Will buy original games when I get good internet to play multiplayer. 

I pirate to try out softwares. Once I start using one dedicatedly, for my work, I'd be happy to pay for it. 

I do not see how Microsoft lost when I pirated windows, I'd noway buy it if it was pirate-proof . I'd resort to FOSS. So me pirating Windows and MS Office has been only good to them. 

*But Piracy is not limited to softwares. Music, Movies, etc all come in it.*
If I did not pirate the music I have, Metallica, AC-DC, Pink Floyd, IronMaiden imagine how life would have been. I am not pirating music of small timers who ear less. Im pirating music of bands which already have owned so much.. And if piracy wasnt there, I would not have bought all the music anyway. So I doubt I am causing any substantial loss.

I also have paid songs from metal bands here in Nepal. They depend on it. Not ones like Metallica.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Specifically, when I start earning and get up on my own feet, I'd pay for essential softwares which I need for work and enjoy, and if they are within permissible levels of my  income. I doubt I'd ever be rich enough to buy SPSS, I may require it in future very often.

For now I wont put any load on my dad's earning by funding Bill Gate's toilet paper!


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## comp@ddict (Jan 23, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> Man Windows is not that bad...its just too overpriced....more then double of what it shud be


Ejaktly, and the only reason I'm using genuine Windows XP is bcuz HP came bundled with XP Genuine with the Lappy.

And since we didn't really have to pay a penny for the lappy, it's a fair deal what say?


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## RMN (Jan 23, 2009)

anyone watched the episode of South Park on Piracy?

at the end Stan says:
"if the stuff you make is good...ppl will buy it"
that's true
if i come across good Albums,Movies...i do buy it and in case of movies,if its supposed to be good id got to the Cinema.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 23, 2009)

@comp@ddict
dint get you...
maybe u r not paying anything beyond the cost of ur hardware


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## comp@ddict (Jan 23, 2009)

> @comp@ddict
> dint get you...
> maybe u r not paying anything beyond the cost of ur hardware


No, the laptop was provided by the company, and WinXp came together as inculded, I didn't pay anything for the laptop as well as for WinXP Genuine.

Actually, it's Win Vista Premium, but Vista sucks, and that's another story anyways.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 23, 2009)

Dude same goes with Vista, if u have the right hardware u shudnt have "MANY" problems. There are problems in Vista but not as much as the bad image it holds. I ve been using it for past 9 months flawlessly without any BSODs or hangs. But yes, many software and drivers show compatibility problems, but then lets see Windows 7.


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## Aberforth (Jan 23, 2009)

Fighting piracy without a change of pricing strategy is a very tough game in price sensitive markets like India and China. People will always pirate software and find new ways to break copy-protection measures because they simply can't afford the prices at which movies, music, games and software sells in India.

The pricing of softwares and games in India is on par with their prices in the EU and US. However, the income and purchasing power of the average Indian is less than 1/20th of the average European or US income which brings a disparity in prices and purchasing power. 

It is ironic that technology giants outsource their processes to India because they know India is a low-income country where people will work for a job at 1/10th of the salary they'd have to pay an American employee. Yet, the same companies are not willing to reduce the prices of their products so that they are compatible to the lower incomes of Indians. They want to have it both ways - save money with cheap labour and earn high profits by pricing their products at part with American prices. 

Because of this reality, my sympathies for piracy is limited only to those companies which price their products in the affordable range and yet get shortchanged by software pirates. I can't feel sorry for Bill Gates that 80% of Windows used in India is pirated.


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## PaulBarber (Jan 24, 2009)

^^ totally agree with the above post. It is really good to see companies realizing how the high pricing of their products are affecting sales in growing markets like India and China.  

Sell your products at prices at which people can afford; at a prices where people perceive "value for money" and you'll surely get sales in India. Of course there will still be loads of people who will pirate it and who wont pay even a rupee for it, but there will be enough people who are willing to pay a fair price for it if they are able to buy it in a hassle free manner.

Take the case of Moser-Baer movie CD/DVDs. They are selling at like 1/5th or 1/10th the normal price, but still making handsome profits. Goes to show that there are still good enough people around.

Especially for software that is to be used at home, it is illogical for companies to expect that people will pay major bucks for software. Business/corporate users are making money with software, they should pay for it, but to ask home users to pay 6,000 bucks for Windows Vista is bullshit. 

If a "Windows home edition" for India is sold at say 500 bucks a pop, I'm sure it will sell like hot cakes and M$ will make 10 times as much profit as they currently make from software sales for home segment in India. Same holds true for games - it is not used by corporate/business purposes. Sell games at a price that is affordable for the majority; it will still sell, inspite of whatever piracy happens.

And yeah..regarding piracy of Windows XP/Vista/whatever for home use; even microsoft doesnt care much about it. They know that if piracy stops, windows will lose it's popularity in India. So M$ will make all the right noises (anti-piracy and all), but they'll still want to make sure that Windows is on most home PCs - pirated or not doesnt matter to them



Aberforth said:


> I can't feel sorry for Bill Gates that 80% of Windows used in India is pirated.


I feel angry at Bill Gates that inspite of pricing Windows so above the reach of the common man, 99% of home users still use Windows (pirated)  
Microsoft wins. It's not fair to open source software.


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## gxsaurav (Jan 24, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> The pricing of softwares and games in India is on par with their prices in the EU and US. However, the income and purchasing power of the average Indian is less than 1/20th of the average European or US income which brings a disparity in prices and purchasing power.



Source please. Those who are able to buy an original XBOX 360 are the kind of crowd which spends Rs 5k a month on weekend parties in Mcdonald etc. They can easily pay 1k for games, just that they won't as it is not something "physical".



> They want to have it both ways - save money with cheap labour and earn high profits by pricing their products at part with American prices.


ganda hai par dhanda hai yeh....

Reducing price is indeed a way to curb piracy & many companies are doing it too. Just yesterday I was looking at Oxycube, a Nokia PC Suite like application for Windows. It costs $100 for one mobile phone (IMEI Locked) but costs only Rs 1700 ($ 36 approx) when bought from India. I myself went on to purchase this & was given a choice to pay Rs 1700 for it & then Rs 400 for additional phones I will connect to Oxycube. Now, Oxycube indeed is a good product & it deserves Rs 1.7k to be paid for it.

Just don't think of it as a software, think of it as a product which you will use for the next many years to come. If you can buy a PC hardware for 20K which you plan to use for the next 3 years, then what problem do you have in paying Rs 2k for an OS which you will also use for the next 3 years & beyond that.



> And yeah..regarding piracy of Windows XP/Vista/whatever for home use; even microsoft doesnt care much about it. They know that if piracy stops, windows will lose it's popularity in India. So M$ will make all the right noises (anti-piracy and all), but they'll still want to make sure that Windows is on most home PCs - pirated or not doesnt matter to them


that's news to me. Please explain how??

What price are you guys ready to pay for digital media? Since I am all in favor of Digital Distribution of all the content, here is what I would prefer to pay for content, although the lower the better.

Audio CD = Rs 100

Digital Audio like through something like iTunes in India but made in collaboration with Microsoft (it has highest panitration in Indian Media sector alongwith most of the users using Windows) = Rs 10/song (with a proper DRM policy to curb piracy)

DVD Movie = Rs 200

Digital Distribution of Movies which is usually 2.5 GB for a 720p Video & 1.4 GB for a good SD Rip = Rs 50 with a proper DRM system.

Rs 500 for all games, whether PC or Console. <period>

Rs 2000 for Windows 7 Home Editon. 

Before you bash me, *I admit I like DRM cos I have worked in the Media Secto*r*, but I don't like the way it is implemented right now*. I know how it feels like to lose sales due to Piracy & I also know the mentality of us Indians that if Content provider give DRM free Video/Audio in India right now then we have so much "humanity" in us that we will distribute it for free among our friends. It costs money & resources to create it, so pay for the entertainment you get to those who deserve it.

One thing for sure, we indians are damn greedy. We won't need high end software like Maya yet we will pirate it instead of using Maya PLE to learn it.

It doesn't matter much if prices are reduced, unless the mentality of Indian Public is changed from "everything digital is free anyway", we won't even pay Rs 2k for an OS & will still pirate it.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 24, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> that's news to me. Please explain how??


Google about it. You'll find them admitting that people rather pirate their product rather than use their rivals. There was also an article in Digit in 2006 or 2007 I think.



> What price are you guys ready to pay for digital media? Since I am all in favor of Digital Distribution of all the content, here is what I would prefer to pay for content, although the lower the better.


MS Vista = Rs.1000-2000
MS Office = Already at right price 
Downloadable Songs(any format) - Rs.5-15 per track



> Audio CD = Rs 100
> 
> Digital Audio like through something like iTunes in India but made in collaboration with Microsoft (it has highest panitration in Indian Media sector alongwith most of the users using Windows) = Rs 10/song (with a proper DRM policy to curb piracy)


I rather pay twice or pirate than cope up with DRM. If indeed there is DRM, please do not restrict it to certain player and OS.



> DVD Movie = Rs 200
> 
> Digital Distribution of Movies which is usually 2.5 GB for a 720p Video & 1.4 GB for a good SD Rip = Rs 50 with a proper DRM system.


That I would definitely pay for. Only that should be playable in all major OS..Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD/DragonFlyBSD/OpenSolaris/Mac OS X/Windows.


```
Rs 500 for all games, whether PC or Console. <period>
```
I agree.



> Rs 2000 for Windows 7 Home Editon.


Inclusive of all taxes. 
I'll buy it the same day.



> Before you bash me, *I admit I like DRM cos I have worked in the Media Secto*r*, but I don't like the way it is implemented right now*. I know how it feels like to lose sales due to Piracy & I also know the mentality of us Indians that if Content provider give DRM free Video/Audio in India right now then we have so much "humanity" in us that we will distribute it for free among our friends. It costs money & resources to create it, so pay for the entertainment you get to those who deserve it.
> 
> One thing for sure, we indians are damn greedy. We won't need high end software like Maya yet we will pirate it instead of using Maya PLE to learn it.
> 
> It doesn't matter much if prices are reduced, unless the mentality of Indian Public is changed from "everything digital is free anyway", we won't even pay Rs 2k for an OS & will still pirate it.



Nope. I won't bash you. But DRM currently is still evil and unethical IMO.
Unless they come up with a technique:
(1) Playable in all media players
(2) In all major OS and devices as I stated above
(3) Should not take too much of CPU resources
(4) And distribution in high quality and choice of media format
(5) Should not make using original media usage difficult
(6) No Stupid Clauses.

Regarding about the greedy mentality. We are not alone. Piracy is there widespread also in Romania, China, etc. Even Americans, have greedy mentalities too, but they have effective law and order you see.
And if the companies do slash the prices, indeed many people would buy them, atleast me. And obviously some people will still pirate Windows, even if MS slashes prices to even Rs. 200. 
But the company in question would still profit more.


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## Faun (Jan 24, 2009)

I will never get something with DRM  Thats why I prefer open source software. 
DRM is evil ! 

Infact I will pay for a game with DRM and download the pirated version just cuz I can enjoy the freedom of installing it without any limitations.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 24, 2009)

T159 said:


> I will never get something with DRM  Thats why I prefer open source software.
> DRM is evil !
> 
> Infact I will pay for a game with DRM and download the pirated version just cuz I can enjoy the freedom of installing it without any limitations.



+1


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## gxsaurav (Jan 24, 2009)

I have seen people paying Rs 15 for a ring tone from Indiatimes.com which they don't use for more then 10 days & seen subscribing to caller tune for Rs 30 a month but they are not ready to Pary Rs 20 for a full song. Idiots indeed....

Have u ever paid attention to Microsoft PlayforSure DRM? This is one unifying DRM method from Microsoft due to which you can play a song purchased from any PlayforSure certified music store in any playforesure certified digital device you own. Personally, I have the following kind of DRM implementation in mind which I have even given to Microsoft as a feedback

1) Make use of Windows Live ID or OpenID.

2) Digital Distribution shops should use this to login to PlayforSure Shop

3) Content you buy is tied to your account & not computer. If you have a PC running PlayforSure compatible OS (it can be incorporated in Linux & Mac too using documented APIs) then the Content is downloaded in some good format. I prefer 256 kbps AAC for Audio & 720p H.264 MP4 HD for Video which can be converted by a software bundled with the OS like WMP or Amarock during transfer to a mobile or PMP . These are universal file formats & even play in Mobile Phones or PMP. Content can be downloaded as many times as you like on any PC as long as you have authorized it with your ID. *Make a limit on devices you can authorize else in India one person will buy the content & give his authorization ID to friends & they will continue to use it on many of there devices. Sorry to say, but this has to be done.* However do give the user a choice to de-authorize a device & re-authorize some other device. This call can be managed through a Website too. I say 10 devices are sufficient.

4) If you want to play the same content in your Portable Media Player like iPod or Zune or Creative Zen, then simply connect the player to PC using USB Cable & start the authorization software. Microsoft can do this more easily as Device Center is available in Windows 7. The software will simply scan your device & ask you to login with your ID to it. Once done, the device is authorized to play your digital content. Now simply sync the content using WMP or just copy paste using a File Browser. Now you can play the Same Video you bought for some money in your PC as well as PMP without any problem.

5) If you want to play the content in your Mobile Phone then simply download a small application for your Phone's OS. Login using that software with your ID to authorize your phone. Now copy paste whatever Digital Media you bought in the phone & play it. 

6) Make the content available for streaming over WiFi. If I buy a 720p HD Movie for Rs 50 then I should be able to play it on my 40" HDTV in other room using some Media Center extender device like XBOX 360 (although we are already doing it today, we need this incorporated in Set top boxes provided by Tata or Airtel)

The Authorization software need not run in the background all the time. In case of PC & Mobile phone, since every file can be given a flag or tag, the authorization system will be started to check for proper authorization only when that particular file executed.



T159 said:


> I will never get something with DRM  Thats why I prefer open source software.
> DRM is evil !



DRM is not evil, it is just implemented incorrectly due to no common unifying standard. If we provide everything DRM free then whats stopping you from buying a Song of Chandni Chowk to China for Rs 10 U distributing it over Bluetooth or via Internet to all the friends you have. This means a lost sale to the content creator, which is why DRM was made at the first place.

Understand the mentality of people dude, not many people in India follow the philosophy "We will buy it, if it is good". People will want to save there money even if it is good & if they are getting it free instead of paying for it. 

If you want your game to work like that, then you will love to use Steam.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 24, 2009)

Never tried PlaysForSure. If it will run media with Amarok in Linux; I wont mind it at all.



gxsaurav said:


> If you want your game to work like that, then you will love to use Steam.


You are right. I love Steam.


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## PaulBarber (Jan 24, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> Just don't think of it as a software, think of it as a product which you will use for the next many years to come. If you can buy a PC hardware for 20K which you plan to use for the next 3 years, then what problem do you have in paying Rs 2k for an OS which you will also use for the next 3 years & beyond that.



Yeah..thinking of it like hardware....say your friend has an amazing piece of hardware for which he paid 10k. And suppose you can just take a photocopy of that hardware  and use it at your home without paying anything. And your friend's copy is not affected in any way. It's only the hardware company that has potentially lost one customer. But you would never have paid 10k to buy that hardware anyway (since you aren't so rich anyway). So effectively nobody loses anything. Now it doesnt sound so bad, does it  ?

Software is fundamentally different from material goods. Trying to fit them into old shoes wont help at all. The sooner all these corporations realize this, the better for them (and everyone).



> Before you bash me, *I admit I like DRM cos I have worked in the Media Secto*r*, but I don't like the way it is implemented right now*. I know how it feels like to lose sales due to Piracy & I also know the mentality of us Indians that if Content provider give DRM free Video/Audio in India right now then we have so much "humanity" in us that we will distribute it for free among our friends. It costs money & resources to create it, so pay for the entertainment you get to those who deserve it.


DRM is yet another lame attempt to put software in hardware's shoes and it is doomed to fail. In software and audio/video media intended for the public, you need to depend on the trust and goodwill of your customers (unless you can afford to conduct raids on all home software users). When a customer pays hard earned money for your product, he would expect it to be in the best possible form, not in some crippled and restricted format. 

Sadly DRM and copy protection is still working to some extent (in preventing casual piracy). If anyone is serious on pirating the product, there are still 100 ways to do it (and regardless of whatever DRM comes in, it will still be cracked). However the direction is wrong, and customers might take it, up to a limit. When they reach the point where it gets too much, they'll just go for the cheap and easy option - pirate it  and then who loses?



> One thing for sure, we indians are damn greedy. We won't need high end software like Maya yet we will pirate it instead of using Maya PLE to learn it.
> 
> It doesn't matter much if prices are reduced, unless the mentality of Indian Public is changed from "everything digital is free anyway", we won't even pay Rs 2k for an OS & will still pirate it.


Not just Indians yaar...it's human psychology. Why pay for something which u can get for free. In any community, there will be x% of people who think like this. It's the other (100-x)% who will pay for software. And when the price of the product decreases, this x% keeps decreasing. 

Challenge for the companies is to find the right price for their product  - depending on their strategy - whether they are looking to increase their topline or bottomline.


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## Faun (Jan 24, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> DRM is not evil, it is just implemented incorrectly due to no common unifying standard. If we provide everything DRM free then whats stopping you from buying a Song of Chandni Chowk to China for Rs 10 U distributing it over Bluetooth or via Internet to all the friends you have. This means a lost sale to the content creator, which is why DRM was made at the first place.
> 
> Understand the mentality of people dude, not many people in India follow the philosophy "We will buy it, if it is good". People will want to save there money even if it is good & if they are getting it free instead of paying for it.
> 
> If you want your game to work like that, then you will love to use Steam.


Content creator doesn't get a dime out of DRM. It's the publishers and RIAA who get, they are like middle man. If only we can get content directly from creators then we can have it for a fairly decent price. 

Artists are under contracts with publishers at the stake of their freedom to distribute their media elsewhere. Publishers cripples artists and then consumers. In the end its the win win scenario for publishers, both artists + consumers loses and yield to the terms of publishers.

Today Internet is the largest medium to make your voice hear, piracy is the way to get popularize without any middleman taking credit. Some of the artists have realized it and used piracy to become popular. 

This is what Mike says - "I'm just happy that people get to see my movies. I'm not a big supporter of copyright laws in this country…I don't understand bands or filmmakers…who oppose sharing, hav[ing] their work being shared by people, because it only increases your fanbase."

Old must wear out completely to begin anew. DRM is the last nail to the coffin (I hope so). Artists should reach consumers directly.



PaulBarber said:


> Not just Indians yaar...it's human psychology. Why pay for something which u can get for free. In any community, there will be x% of people who think like this. It's the other (100-x)% who will pay for software. And when the price of the product decreases, this x% keeps decreasing.
> 
> Challenge for the companies is to find the right price for their product  - depending on their strategy - whether they are looking to increase their topline or bottomline.


Agree, dont stereotype Indian's at greedy. Every being is like that, its innate and been perpetuating from eons.


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## gxsaurav (Jan 24, 2009)

PaulBarber said:


> Yeah..thinking of it like hardware....say your friend has an amazing piece of hardware for which he paid 10k. And suppose you can just take a photocopy of that hardware  and use it at your home without paying anything. And your friend's copy is not affected in any way. It's only the hardware company that has potentially lost one customer. But you would never have paid 10k to buy that hardware anyway (since you aren't so rich anyway). So effectively nobody loses anything. Now it doesnt sound so bad, does it  ?



It does. You are making money using that photocopied item but you are not paying money to the original manufacturer of the hardware which they deserve. This is the reason software is priced high.

Microsoft doesn't care if casual home users are using Pirated Windows cos they usually get it via OEM & those who are getting it pirated are still using Windows & MS isn't spending any money in giving them phone support. If you didn't buy Windows, then you have no right to scold Microsoft if they released a version of Windows Update which doesn't work on Non-genuine copies.



> When a customer pays hard earned money for your product, he would expect it to be in the best possible form, not in some crippled and restricted format.



The customer pays for the work of all the developers & designer who made that software. Even they have families to run.



> Sadly DRM and copy protection is still working to some extent (in preventing casual piracy). If anyone is serious on pirating the product, there are still 100 ways to do it (and regardless of whatever DRM comes in, it will still be cracked). However the direction is wrong, and customers might take it, up to a limit. When they reach the point where it gets too much, they'll just go for the cheap and easy option - pirate it  and then who loses?



If you need it so badly, consider paying for it to the developer who used his manpower to create it.

Just setting a right price according to market is enough to prevent Piracy, isn't this our conclusion so far?


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## Aberforth (Jan 24, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> Source please.


According to World Economic Outlook Database of 2008, released by IMF, India's per capita GDP corrected to PPP is $ 2,563/year. The same for European Union is $32,000. Simple mathematics shows that the purchasing power of Indians is 1/12th that of European average. 

I picked up DVDs of new Hollywood releases for 10 Euros in the stores of Lyon and Geneva, while the same costs Rs.699 in the stores of Delhi. It turns out that the movies sold in EU are cheaper by INR 50 compared to what they sell for in India. 



gxsaurav said:


> Those who are able to buy an original XBOX 360 are the kind of crowd which spends Rs 5k a month on weekend parties in Mcdonald etc. They can easily pay 1k for games, just that they won't as it is not something "physical".


Red herring. Only a miniscule percentage computer gamers in India can afford XBOX 360s or 5K McDonald parties. A sixteen year old Indian who gets a pocket money of less than Rs. 600 a month can't afford games worth Rs. 2000 or new movies worth Rs. 699 upwards. Thats a wide contrast to European teenagers who can afford games and movies much more easily with their pocket money of 100 euros and above. 

A little personal anecode will put that in order. When I was 16, I had to tutor my neighbour's 'Class 1' kid at Rs.300/month for almost a year just so that I could afford a Sony Walkman. If an American 16 year old tried as hard, he could afford a Digital SLR camera.



gxsaurav said:


> ganda hai par dhanda hai yeh....


If that be so, then it is fair that the Indian people play dirty by doing what they can...



gxsaurav said:


> Just don't think of it as a software, think of it as a product which you will use for the next many years to come.


Think of it this way. If you buy a PC at 20K, you can sell it 3 months later at 10K. At the worst case, you can sell it as scrap and get a small value on it. If you buy a copy of Windows Vista Home Premium at 9K, its resale worth is pretty much nothing. (That is, if you find someone who is willing to buy a second hand copy of Windows Vista.) One has to delude himself/herself to imagine a software as a material product. It isn't.



gxsaurav said:


> If you can buy a PC hardware for 20K which you plan to use for the next 3 years, then what problem do you have in paying Rs 2k for an OS which you will also use for the next 3 years & beyond that.


Oh please! Which usable Microsoft OS sells for Rs. 2K? I emphasise 'usable' to imply the 'Starter Editions' of Microsoft OSes.



gxsaurav said:


> I have seen people paying Rs 15 for a ring tone from Indiatimes.com which they don't use for more then 10 days & seen subscribing to caller tune for Rs 30 a month but they are not ready to Pary Rs 20 for a full song. Idiots indeed....


Rs. 30 to pick a song for a month doesn't hit the average Indian pocket as much as a Rs.399 CD of 10 songs, 9 of which the customer doesn't want.



gxsaurav said:


> The customer pays for the work of all the developers & designer who made that software. Even they have families to run.


By providing customers a deliberately 'handicapped' product, the families of the developers won't be run better. They are annoying genuine customers while the pirate has the last laugh, paying nothing for a software that he runs without the 'handicap' of the original software.


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## PaulBarber (Jan 24, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> It does. You are making money using that photocopied item but you are not paying money to the original manufacturer of the hardware which they deserve. This is the reason software is priced high.



Nope buddy...this is not the reason software is priced so high!!. It is priced so high bcos prices are at developed economy (US/Europe) rates which we poor Indians cant reasonably afford.  Using a convoluted argument that my rates are high bcos I know all of you are pirates anyway, is a self defeating argument (kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy) that makes u sound suspiciously like RIAAA 



> Microsoft doesn't care if casual home users are using Pirated Windows cos they usually get it via OEM & those who are getting it pirated are still using Windows & MS isn't spending any money in giving them phone support. If you didn't buy Windows, then you have no right to scold Microsoft if they released a version of Windows Update which doesn't work on Non-genuine copies.



Who's complaining ?? Not me. Whoever is complaining should go and promptly buy a genuine copy of Windows at the retail price. Microsoft has every right and reason to withhold updates to non-genuine users. Hell...make non-genuine copies completely stop working...and uncrackable...that's the best thing. That way Linux will get a HUGE break. But you know as well as I do that M$ wont ever do that. They can't afford to, and we all know why 



> The customer pays for the work of all the developers & designer who made that software. Even they have families to run.
> If you need it so badly, consider paying for it to the developer who used his manpower to create it.



Completely agreed. I'm not advocating piracy here. Whoever put in money and effort to create the software have every reason to get money in return. But unlike material goods, each copy of a software doesn't cost the developer incremental sums of money. There's such a HUGE untapped market, especially in home/consumer software and media market. Play the high volume-low margin game and there's loads of money to be made. But corporations are sticking to the old game where they try to sell each copy at maximum profit- consumer be damned.



> Just setting a right price according to market is enough to prevent Piracy, isn't this our conclusion so far?



No...not to prevent piracy. But to ensure enough people buy the software so that the developer earns his due income and doesnt have to resort to $hit like DRM and alienate his customers


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 25, 2009)

Piracy FTW

Why all here are speaking so much philosophies here with no conclusions

All that Microsoft policies are totally aimed at slave corporates users ....Microsoft wont care more abt old softwares pirated now......as the would loose their existing market share......Linux is way hunting M$ the other way......

So only a change in software distrubution Architechture can help to


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 25, 2009)

I personally dont care about Microsoft or Adobe regarding piracy. But games should only be brought original particularly if they are so value for money such as GTA IV or Orange Box.


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## Nuxer (Jan 25, 2009)

My doubts about Piracy

1. All we know that movie or music downloading from torrents is illegal. But in the case of wallpapers, is it legal or not?

2. Downloading ringtones, mobile wallpapers etc from zedge like site is legal or not?


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## ionicsachin (Jan 25, 2009)

^
1) While downloading wallpapers look for the disclaimer there, coz some wallpapers might be available for purchase and downloading them might be illegal. Its like you are not permitted to take someones pic without permission.
2) Same goes here. But such website mention that they are hosting these files only for previewing and are not responsible if people download and use it. In such case we become culprit without knowing.


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 25, 2009)

^^
Also not all Movies and Music downloads are illegal. Some movies are legal to be shared under Creative Commons.
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons


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## ajaybc (Jan 26, 2009)

^^WTF?


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## supercow (Jan 26, 2009)

Aberforth said:


> Fighting piracy without a change of pricing strategy is a very tough game in price sensitive markets like India and China. People will always pirate software and find new ways to break copy-protection measures because they simply can't afford the prices at which movies, music, games and software sells in India.
> 
> The pricing of softwares and games in India is on par with their prices in the EU and US. However, the income and purchasing power of the average Indian is less than 1/20th of the average European or US income which brings a disparity in prices and purchasing power.
> 
> ...



YES I also agree with you.


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## gopi_vbboy (Jan 26, 2009)

In India everything is legal


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 26, 2009)

gopi_vbboy said:


> In India everything is legal



Please don't make such generic statements that too on Republic Day.


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## Faun (Jan 26, 2009)

^^Ram Sena celebrated it in advance


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 26, 2009)

T159 said:


> ^^Ram Sena celebrated it in advance





<off topic>
Our country would be much better without the * senas.
</off topic>


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## avinash.gamerboy (Jan 27, 2009)

Dont end piracy *i95.photobucket.com/albums/l134/Damatte-yo/GIF/itcantbemnky.gif


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## mumble (Jan 27, 2009)

its a nice initiative for 450 rs, but gta4 guys mite ve got enough money too from hardware producers. and i think 300 rs for 3 plain dvds is nonsense as root post states.

hope new game titles come around 300 bucks to bring piracy down to 60%.

i think, no other go.


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## victor_rambo (Jan 28, 2009)

ionicsachin said:


> Same goes here. But such website mention that they are hosting these files only for previewing and are not responsible if people download and use it. In such case we become culprit without knowing.


Don't accuse yourself so soon. Legally, you should ask the publishers that who gave them the permission to distribute reviews copy?

These days, there are too many n00bs trying to double up as attorneys/lawyers! Give them a fck!


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## kuki_295 (Jan 29, 2009)

1. Most of the software out there are very expensive.
Softwares i use
vista ultimate             - 10750 Rs
Adobe photoshop        -  27000 Rs
Adobe soundbooth      -  27000 Rs
Adobe premiere pro    - 33750 Rs

And many more small ones so u can sum up the total price.

2. Availability of original games i had to look for battlefield 2142 for about 4 months until i bought it on ea link for about 45 $.
in small citys(like mine Kota) u can't find any original games.i am not talking about small games i mean cod4 left 4 dead and teamfortress 2.But i have bought them all on steam and they are still expensive.
Orang box - 2500 Rs
COD 4       - 2000 Rs
Left 4 dead- 2000Rs

So just gta4 is cheap all other are expansive.


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## ionicsachin (Jan 29, 2009)

I think if software we need is expensive then we shud look for open source counterpart. Thank God that we dont have hardware piracy, otherwise we wud have cards with the same power of GTX295 but at a dumb less price


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## Liverpool_fan (Jan 29, 2009)

kuki_295 said:


> Orang box - 2500 Rs


What? WTH you brought it by steam? The retail copy costs only Rs.999.


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## gxsaurav (Jan 29, 2009)

kuki_295 said:


> 1. Most of the software out there are very expensive.
> Softwares i use
> vista ultimate             - 10750 Rs
> Adobe photoshop        -  27000 Rs
> ...



This is where the greediness of Indian Mind shows. Y does a casual home user needs Photoshop or Soundbooth or Adobe Premiere? For casual home user Adobe Photoshop Elements or ACDSee/Nero soundtrax/& Adobe premiere elements are enough.

If you are a pro user making money by using these software then pay for these applications.



> And many more small ones so u can sum up the total price.



Ever heard of free alternatives?


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## MetalheadGautham (Jan 29, 2009)

gxsaurav said:


> This is where the greediness of Indian Mind shows. Y does a casual home user needs Photoshop or Soundbooth or Adobe Premiere? For casual home user Adobe Photoshop Elements or ACDSee/Nero soundtrax/& Adobe premiere elements are enough.
> 
> If you are a pro user making money by using these software then pay for these applications.
> 
> ...


+1. I second that.


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## kuki_295 (Jan 30, 2009)

Anurag_panda said:


> What? WTH you brought it by steam? The retail copy costs only Rs.999.


I bought it about a 18 months ago.



> This is where the greediness of Indian Mind shows. Y does a casual home user needs Photoshop or Soundbooth or Adobe Premiere? For casual home user Adobe Photoshop Elements or ACDSee/Nero soundtrax/& Adobe premiere elements are enough.
> 
> If you are a pro user making money by using these software then pay for these applications.
> Ever heard of free alternatives?



Ok i agree with u i don't need those softwares.
but what about Vista the ultimate costs near a quad core.
and even if someone buys vista microsoft will another windows in less than 2 years and they have to pay 10000 again.


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