# Valve cooking something big....



## Desmond (Sep 20, 2013)

Valve has put up this teaser site with a countdown timer and announced that they are going to make three big announcements over the coming days.

*store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

Though I am skeptical that this has anything to do with HL3, but I think this could be an official Steambox.

From IGN :



> Valve is teasing three announcements coming next week related to “the steps we're taking to make Steam more accessible on televisions and in the living room.” On a teaser site posted today, Valve says “the Steam universe is expanding in 2014.”
> 
> “Last year, we shipped a software feature called Big Picture, a user-interface tailored for televisions and gamepads,” the site says. “This year we’ve been working on even more ways to connect the dots for customers who want Steam in the living-room. Soon, we’ll be adding you to our design process, so that you can help us shape the future of Steam.”
> 
> ...



Source : *www.ign.com/articles/2013/09/20/valve-teases-three-announcements-next-week

The first announcement is to be expected in 72 hours.


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## krishnandu.sarkar (Sep 20, 2013)

Nice..!! Let's see what they are upto


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## cyborg47 (Sep 21, 2013)

[youtube]Gzn6E2m3otg[/youtube]


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## Desmond (Sep 23, 2013)

7 hours to first announcement.


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## Nipun (Sep 23, 2013)

> Valve is teasing *three *announcements coming next week



So they can count to three...


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## Desmond (Sep 23, 2013)

*Steam announces SteamOS*

SteamOS



> As we’ve been working on bringing Steam to the living room, we’ve come to the conclusion that the
> environment best suited to delivering value to customers is an operating system built around Steam itself.
> SteamOS combines the rock-solid architecture of Linux with a gaming experience built for the big screen.
> It will be available soon as a free stand-alone operating system for living room machines.


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## icebags (Sep 23, 2013)

good in a way, if it supports all games, we will be able to play without going for ms windows .


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

Well, not all games have been ported yet. I think they will announce some top level games in the next announcement.


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## krishnandu.sarkar (Sep 24, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> *Steam announces SteamOS*
> 
> SteamOS



Do we really need another OS just for playing games and all?

Wouldn't it be better if they would started fully supporting Linux?


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## amjath (Sep 24, 2013)

Still need a PC to stream games eh!!!


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

krishnandu.sarkar said:


> Do we really need another OS just for playing games and all?
> 
> Wouldn't it be better if they would started fully supporting Linux?



I think that is the objective in the long term. Also, companies would probably start moving to SteamOS if this becomes popular enough. If it runs on SteamOS, it would definitely run on any other Linux distro.



amjath said:


> Still need a PC to stream games eh!!!



We can hope that the Steambox could come out someday.


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## flyingcow (Sep 24, 2013)

krishnandu.sarkar said:


> Do we really need another OS just for playing games and all?
> 
> Wouldn't it be better if they would started fully supporting Linux?


I think it is made just for those who want to use their PC to play games etc in their living room..


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

flyingcow said:


> I think it is made just for those who want to use their PC to play games etc in their living room..



I think this is the first step towards a Steam console.


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## Faun (Sep 24, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I think this is the first step towards a Steam console.



agree


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## krishnandu.sarkar (Sep 24, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> I think that is the objective in the long term. Also, companies would probably start moving to SteamOS if this becomes popular enough. If it runs on SteamOS, it would definitely run on any other Linux distro.
> 
> 
> 
> We can hope that the Steambox could come out someday.





flyingcow said:


> I think it is made just for those who want to use their PC to play games etc in their living room..



Yeah. This SteamOS is built on Linux only. But a custom Distro only for playing games which will have Steam integrated.


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

krishnandu.sarkar said:


> Yeah. This SteamOS is built on Linux only. But a custom Distro only for playing games which will have Steam integrated.



I don't think so. It's Linux, so you should be able to do anything on it. Gaming is just one aspect. We can't say for sure until we get our hands on it, if we get our hands in it anytime soon (taking valve time into consideration)


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## flyingcow (Sep 24, 2013)

krishnandu.sarkar said:


> Yeah. This SteamOS is built on Linux only. But a custom Distro only for playing games which will have Steam integrated.


I thin the whole OS will be highly optimised for xbox controller, like the "big picture mode"..unlike windows where xbox controller only works for games


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 24, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> *Steam announces SteamOS*
> 
> SteamOS



*In Shadow Fiend's voice*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fragmentation of PC gaming begins. 
Now there will be SteamOS exclusive games


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

flyingcow said:


> I thin the whole OS will be highly optimised for xbox controller, like the "big picture mode"..unlike windows where xbox controller only works for games



It will be sad if it is just Big Picture on a whole new OS. I hope they have a separate desktop for regular tasks.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> *In Shadow Fiend's voice*
> 
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...



That is inevitable, just like the doom of windows.

Edit : I hope that they come up with something that will allow cross gaming from Windows platforms, like a better port of Wine.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 24, 2013)

Big Picture is nice.There is no need for this steamOS


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## furious_gamer (Sep 24, 2013)

Absolutely no need for SteamOS. It will further break platforms.


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

How would it break platforms when it is still Linux? Steam is already available for Linux and a game that would run on SteamOS would run on any version of Linux.


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## furious_gamer (Sep 24, 2013)

So it's just like another Linux distro, but customized by Steam? Whatever it is, i will not change from Windows 7.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 24, 2013)

furious_gamer said:


> So it's just like another Linux distro, but customized by Steam? Whatever it is,* i will not change from Windows 7*.



Same Here.


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## Desmond (Sep 24, 2013)

Well, its too soon to say what features they would add until I can get my hands on it.


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## Bhargav Simha (Sep 25, 2013)

I would rather want it to be a gaming specific os for pc, than an os which lets streaming to tvs. There are a lot of software which take care of the streaming part already. 
Would be wonderfull to have an os optimized for gaming only(that too free), so that low/mid-end configs can handle games better.


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## cyborg47 (Sep 25, 2013)

Its based on Ubuntu from what I heard, and Valve are working on a debugger with another company, and then send it to the game studios so that they could start developing better games for linux too.


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## Nerevarine (Sep 25, 2013)

And what of Native DirectX11 ?? MS not gonna give it away just like that and its not like most AAA games will support OpenGL over DX11 in the future


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## flyingcow (Sep 25, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Well, its too soon to say what features they would add until I can get my hands on it.



...


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## Desmond (Sep 25, 2013)

About 1 1/2 hours left for the second announcement. I guess this will be the Steambox, which will allow you to stream games from your PC to your living room.

Just guessing. 



Nerevarine said:


> And what of Native DirectX11 ?? MS not gonna give it away just like that and its not like most AAA games will support OpenGL over DX11 in the future



I am speculating that Valve could make an improvement over some trans-gaming service like Cedega or Wine which could allow Windows games to run over Linux by converting DirectX instructions to OpenGL.

But then again, still too soon to say.

Ref : *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedega_(software)


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## Desmond (Sep 25, 2013)

Second announcement.

Steam announces SteamMachines.

*store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines


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## amjath (Sep 25, 2013)

Add me on steam = amjath27


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## Bhargav Simha (Sep 26, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> About 1 1/2 hours left for the second announcement. I guess this will be the Steambox, which will allow you to stream games from your PC to your living room.
> 
> Just guessing.
> 
> ...




Also Nvidia announced that they will be supporting linux drivers directly, just one day after steam os was announced. Nvidia seems to be wanting to compensate for missing out on the next gen consoles, using the steam box/machines.
Regarding steam machines, I really hoped it would be a specific set of hardware unlike the plan announced by steam. I feel an os optimized for a specific hardware, would help run games on sys requirements lower than a traditional desktop.


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## Desmond (Sep 26, 2013)

Bhargav Simha said:


> Also Nvidia announced that they will be supporting linux drivers directly, just one day after steam os was announced. Nvidia seems to be wanting to compensate for missing out on the next gen consoles, using the steam box/machines.
> Regarding steam machines, I really hoped it would be a specific set of hardware unlike the plan announced by steam. I feel an os optimized for a specific hardware, would help run games on sys requirements lower than a traditional desktop.



As Steam has announced, SteamOS will be open architecture like PCs. This point from the FAQ makes it clear : 



> -Can I hack this box? Run another OS? Change the hardware? Install my own software? Use it to build a robot?
> -Sure.



Therefore, we should be able to optimize it as well or there could be custom distros made by third party developers which could be more optimized.

As for Games not supported natively on SteamMachines, those can be played via In-home streaming.



> -What games will be available during the beta?
> -The nearly 3,000 games on Steam. Hundreds already running natively on the SteamOS, with more to come. The rest will work seamlessly via in-home streaming.


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## Bhargav (Sep 26, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> As Steam has announced, SteamOS will be open architecture like PCs. This point from the FAQ makes it clear :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Valve taking it all to next lvl  

Welcome to 2nd Gen Steam services


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## Desmond (Sep 27, 2013)

I believe that Valve will be introducing a controller in the next announcement.

I found out that Valve had applied for a patent for a game controller about 4 years ago. Here are the details :

Patent US8241126 - Video game controller having user swappable control components - Google Patents


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## vickybat (Sep 27, 2013)

What games are currently supported by SteamOS?


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## Desmond (Sep 27, 2013)

All Linux games....once its released.

SteamController announced : *store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 27, 2013)

What is that abomination!!!!!?????????
it looks from the crappy future!


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## amjath (Sep 27, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> All Linux games....once its released.
> 
> SteamController announced : Steam Controller



Weird looking controller


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 27, 2013)

amjath said:


> Weird looking controller





> What is that *abomination!!!!!?????????
> it looks from the crappy future*!


.........


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## cyborg47 (Sep 27, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> What is that abomination!!!!!?????????
> it looks from the crappy future!



.....


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 27, 2013)

That controller is seriously not a controller


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## vickybat (Sep 27, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> What is that abomination!!!!!?????????
> it looks from the crappy future!



Don't judge that by its looks mate.
Looks pretty solid imo and a lot better than tablet gamepad designs, both in looks and functionality.
This thing has what it takes to tap into the market.
SteamOS is the next big thing after Google's Android.

*P.S -* Circular Trackpads are indeed innovative.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> That controller is seriously not a controller



Its more than a controller.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 27, 2013)

And why does it have a touch screen?

And I'm pretty sure the "Steam Device" will have laptop-y hardware


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## vickybat (Sep 27, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> And why does it have a touch screen?



Read !



> In the center of the controller is another touch-enabled surface, this one backed by a high-resolution screen. This surface, too, is critical to achieving the controller’s primary goal - supporting all games in the Steam catalog. The screen allows an infinite number of discrete actions to be made available to the player, without requiring an infinite number of physical buttons.
> 
> The whole screen itself is also clickable, like a large single button. So actions are not invoked by a simple touch, they instead require a click. This allows a player to touch the screen, browse available actions, and only then commit to the one they want. Players can swipe through pages of actions in games where that’s appropriate. When programmed by game developers using our API, the touch screen can work as a scrolling menu, a radial dial, provide secondary info like a map or use other custom input modes we haven’t thought of yet.
> 
> In order to avoid forcing players to divide their attention between screens, a critical feature of the Steam Controller comes from its deep integration with Steam. When a player touches the controller screen, its display is overlayed on top of the game they’re playing, allowing the player to leave their attention squarely on the action, where it belongs.



Amazing thinking by valve.


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## Skyh3ck (Sep 27, 2013)

can someone post a direct pic here for low bandwidth people

of console, controller, or any prototype


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## vickybat (Sep 27, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> And I'm pretty sure the "Steam Device" will have laptop-y hardware



So?? Next gen game consoles also sport laptop-y hardware.
Low level API's like "mantle" will be immensely popular here as well as in the pc space.
PC hardware usage will be efficient like never before.

Laptop-y hardware is no longer laptop-y.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 27, 2013)

vickybat said:


> Read !
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing thinking by valve.


Those are nice features.
I hope it works for people who have sweaty fingers(like me).


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## vickybat (Sep 27, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Those are nice features.
> I hope it works for people who have sweaty fingers(like me).



If you can handle a regular d-pad with sweaty fingers, this thing will have no issues too.
Note it has rough surfaced track-pad. Its coarser than a regular laptop touch-pad and has those circular fringes for added friction.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> If you can handle a regular d-pad with sweaty fingers, this thing will have no issues too.
> Note it has rough surfaced track-pad. Its coarser than a regular laptop touch-pad and has those circular fringes for added friction.


I mean touch screen.



vickybat said:


> So?? Next gen game consoles also sport laptop-y hardware.
> Low level API's like "mantle" will be immensely popular here as well as in the pc space.
> PC hardware usage will be efficient like never before.
> 
> Laptop-y hardware is no longer laptop-y.




But That defeats the purpose of


			
				RandomPCfanboyOnTheInterwebs said:
			
		

> OMGWTF 1080P 60FPS With everything @ Ultra and 32x AA on my TV!!!
> Consoles sux,Consoles are Extinct


^Btw the quote is what most PC fanboys think about the "steam box"


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> I mean touch screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would suggest you to do some proper reading.
Read what mantle is. Steam machines and SteamOS are destined to bring the best out of both worlds.
Not that closed boxed, but offers low level access. To top it off, they are upgradeable.

They are both pc and console at the same time.


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## CommanderShawnzer (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I would suggest you to do some proper reading.
> Read what mantle is. Steam machines and SteamOS are destined to bring the best out of both worlds.
> Not that closed boxed, but offers low level access. To top it off, *they are upgradeable.
> *
> They are both pc and console at the same time.



Holy Sh!te!
They made laptop-y hardware modular!  
I just hope the steam devices are not like Alienware x51
(Stuffing sub-par small PC GPU's(Like gtx 645) into a mini-ITX board in a cramped chassis)


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> Btw the quote is what most PC fanboys think about the "steam box"



There are no fanboys here and we are not talking about "Steam Box" but "Steam Machines".
There is not a single machine. There will be a plethora of configurations and thereby, choices.



CommanderShawnzer said:


> Holy Sh!te!
> They made laptop-y hardware modular!
> I just hope the steam devices are not like Alienware x51
> (Stuffing sub-par small PC GPU's(Like gtx 645) into a mini-ITX board in a cramped chassis)



Interestingly, SteamOS is absolutely free and Steam Controller will also work on your regular pc if SteamOS is installed on it.
Extremely versatile imo.


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## snap (Sep 28, 2013)

AnandTech Portal | Understanding AMD a good read regarding mantle


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

snap said:


> AnandTech Portal | Understanding AMD a good read regarding mantle



That's a great read and is also technical.

These will give messages in a broad sense:

*AMD, Nvidia ramp up Linux driver support after Valve's SteamOS announcement*

*SteamOS/Mantle - It looks like PC gaming is handing MS Divorce Papers!*


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## Desmond (Sep 28, 2013)

I move my attention for a bit and missed so much discussion.

So the holy trinity of announcements from Valve looks pretty solid to me.

First SteamOS, an OS for the living room, an OS dedicated for gaming and a rock solid media center.

Second, SteamMachines, fully upgradable/tweakable media center devices running the above OS which allows you to stream media and games (which are not natively supported on SteamOS) from your PC.

Third, the SteamController to control said device.

Since I don't have much experience using a controller (do not own any consoles or played much on any), I cannot say how the trackpad would fare compared to the analog stick but I do love the touchscreen in the center. Imagine you want to switch weapons using the selection dial (that most new games feature) and as soon as you touch the touchscreen, the dial comes up and you choose your weapon using your finger movements.

I would like to see whether they can find some way to run Windows games using something like Cedega. Valve could fork Wine and come up with their own variant that could be better. Then bye bye windows and DirectX.

Edit : Just realized that Wine probably needs Windows binaries.

Edit : They could fork Wine and make it compliant with Mantle.


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## cyborg47 (Sep 28, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> I mean touch screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why don't you apply for the beta, you might get one for yourself in the test, and have a look by yourself


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## Desmond (Sep 28, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> Why don't you apply for the beta, you might get one for yourself in the test, and have a look by yourself



Beta devices do not have touchscreen yet. Ref the link.


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## cyborg47 (Sep 28, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Beta devices do not have touchscreen yet. Ref the link.



I'm just saying, generally, coz Commander seems a little skeptical about the entire thing.

..and here's the community page, Valve will announce more over here.

*steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> .
> 
> I would like to see whether they can find some way to run Windows games using something like Cedega. Valve could fork Wine and come up with their own variant that could be better. Then bye bye windows and DirectX.
> 
> ...



No need for DirectX here. SteamOS has openGL libraries, co-developed by Nvidia.
With that and mantle, directx won't be an absolute requirement.

SteamOS is a completely different platform. No place for wine or directx here.
Games will be developed using open-gl and other non-directx api's like mantle for steamOs.

Imagine something like this -*"Games for SteamOs"* moniker in the retail copy of next "TombRaider".


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## Desmond (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> No need for DirectX here. SteamOS has openGL libraries, co-developed by Nvidia.
> With that and mantle, directx won't be an absolute requirement.
> 
> SteamOS is a completely different platform. No place for wine or directx here.
> ...



DirectX for games that don't natively support OpenGL or for older games. But then again, we can stream them from the PC.


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## cyborg47 (Sep 28, 2013)

So, could it be the death of directX then?, possibly 

Though all I'm concerned about is the terrible performance of games on PCs, and it seems like Mantle is going to fix that.


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> DirectX for games that don't natively support OpenGL or for older games. But then again, we can stream them from the PC.



*SteamOS is PC*. You can install it on your system too.
Doing so will simply change your PC into a whole new platform. DirectX has no place here.


Games will be developed for SteamOS in mind. Think this as a direct competitor to windows in gaming. Its a formidable one too.


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## Desmond (Sep 28, 2013)

If you have both, a PC and a SteamMachine, you can run Linux games (SteamOS games) on the SteamMachine and you can stream other games from your PC (via in-house sharing). It is not possible to run DirectX-only games on an OpenGL platform, as is the case of various older games or other DirectX exclusive games.


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> If you have both, a PC and a SteamMachine, you can run Linux games (SteamOS games) on the SteamMachine and you can stream other games from your PC (via in-house sharing).* It is not possible to run DirectX-only games on an OpenGL platform,* as is the case of various older games or other DirectX exclusive games.



You are a bit confused mate. Steammachine is a PC. period! Games will be made or ported to SteamOS using open-gl api's. 
About the bold part, that's what describes conventional porting. You port games from one api to the other. SteamOS is more broad than simply a linux distro that plays games.


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## Desmond (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> You are a bit confused mate. Steammachine is a PC. period! Games will be made or ported to SteamOS using open-gl api's.
> About the bold part, that's what describes conventional porting. You port games from one api to the other. *SteamOS is more broad than simply a linux distro that plays games.*



Isn't it a bit too early to judge it as such? It isn't even out yet. Also, whether a game will be ported or not depends upon the developers of the game. What about games by THQ? THQ is dead so who will port those games?


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## ico (Sep 28, 2013)

SteamOS is just another Linux distribution with Valve stuff preinstalled + Valve putting up their own interface. They're trying to turn your computer into a living room console/home theatre. That's it.

Install SteamOS on your computer and it becomes equivalent to a "SteamMachine". No need to buy a "SteamMachine" from Valve.



vickybat said:


> No need for DirectX here. SteamOS has openGL libraries, *co-developed by Nvidia.*




You install nVidia's driver on a Linux machine having an nVidia GPU, you get nVidia's OpenGL libraries/implementation.

You install AMD's driver on a Linux machine having an AMD GPU, you get AMD's OpenGL libraries/implementation. You install SteamOS on a machine having an AMD GPU, you will NOT be using nVidia's OpenGL libraries/implementation.

You use xf86-video-ati (AMD's open source driver) or xf86-video-nouveau (reverse engineered open source driver for nVidia) or xf86-video-intel (Intel's official driver), you use MESA's libraries/implementation (called *libgl*).

Each company develops their OpenGL library/implementation for their own hardware.

Nothing is being "co-developed". nVidia isn't "co-developing" anything generic as in providing a libgl alternative for AMD, Intel. That's like them writing a driver for AMD cards. They're improving their own drivers, which every company does.


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

ico said:


> You install nVidia's driver on a Linux machine having an nVidia GPU, you get nVidia's OpenGL libraries/implementation.
> 
> You install AMD's driver on a Linux machine having an AMD GPU, you get AMD's OpenGL libraries/implementation. You install SteamOS on a machine having an AMD GPU, you will NOT be using nVidia's OpenGL libraries/implementation.
> 
> ...





I didn't quite get your point. Open-gl is generic isn't it? 

What do you mean by open-gl implementation in this context? The open-gl api's are a high level abstraction supporting multiple graphics hardware including nvidia and amd.
What's so non- generic here?

Strengthening the driver is like strengthening a bridge for improved to and fro communication between the hardware and low/high level API's. Nvidia is definitely improving binary driver support
for SteamOS and also plans for supplying proper documentation of their gpu's to Nouveau, for improved open-source drivers. Linus Torvalds also gave a fair positive outlook to nvidia's efforts as seen and read here:



Linus Torvalds said:


> "I'm cautiously optimistic that this is a real shift in how Nvidia perceives Linux," the Linux creator said. "The actual docs released so far are fairly limited, and in themselves they wouldn't be a big thing, but if Nvidia really does follow up and start opening up more, that would certainly be great."



What i've heard is that they had worked on the open-gl api's too i.e implemented/modified some additional methods in the existing open-gl api package. I suppose they are generic.
This is my understanding. Could you please explain more briefly what you meant?


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## srkmish (Sep 28, 2013)

So, does this mean the death of windows? Poor windows , getting mauled by mac, android and now Steam OS. Soon it will be history


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## ico (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> I didn't quite get your point. Open-gl is generic isn't it?
> 
> What do you mean by open-gl implementation in this context? *The open-gl api's are a high level abstraction supporting multiple graphics hardware* including nvidia and amd.
> What's so non- generic here?



It's actually the opposite.

The hardware/driver needs to support the API so that OpenGL calls can be understood by the hardware.

OpenGL doesn't support your card. Your card/driver supports OpenGL.

You can't really get a HD 4850 card to support OpenGL 4.x or support DirectX 11. Limited to OpenGL 3.3 and 9. (You still can upto some extent. Apple did it for Intel GMA GPUs. They wrote their own driver involing LLVM/Clang which broke down unsupported calls into simple calls and then used to run on the GPU. Sometimes the new version of OpenGL, subversions like 4.2, 4.3 aren't having dramatic changes. So, they also get supported overtime. Just like nVidia releasing a driver supporting OpenGL 4.4.)

The only thing non-generic is, that you don't know how drivers work. "co-developed by nVidia" - get rid of the easy-go fanboyism. 

*The Linux Graphics Stack | Clean Rinse*


> Now comes the fun part: modern hardware acceleration. I assume everybody already knows what OpenGL is. *It’s not a library, there will never be one set of sources to a libGL.so. Each vendor is supposed to provide its own libGL.so. NVIDIA provides its own implementation of OpenGL and ships its own libGL.so, based on its implementations for Windows and OS X.*
> 
> If you are running open-source drivers, your libGL.so implementation probably comes from Mesa. Mesa is many things, but one of the major things it provides that it is most famous for is its OpenGL implementation. It is an open-source implementation of the OpenGL API. Mesa itself has multiple backends for which it provides support.





vickybat said:


> What i've heard is that they had worked on the open-gl api's too i.e implemented/modified some additional methods *in the existing open-gl api package.* I suppose they are generic.
> This is my understanding. Could you please explain more briefly what you meant?


There is no 'existing' generic OpenGL package/library from Khronos. nVidia provides its own OpenGL package/library/implementation. AMD provides its own. Mesa provides its own.


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## heidi2521 (Sep 28, 2013)

*i.imgur.com/3ESaBUV.jpg


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

*@ ico*

Ok, i'm starting to get what you're saying.

Read the following taken from wiki page of open-gl:



> OpenGL is an evolving API. New versions of the OpenGL specification are regularly released by the Khronos Group, each of which extends the API to support various new features. The details of each version are decided by consensus between the Group's members, including graphics card manufacturers, operating system designers, and general technology companies such as Mozilla and Google.
> 
> *In addition to the features required by the core API, GPU vendors may provide additional functionality in the form of extensions. Extensions may introduce new functions and new constants, and may relax or remove restrictions on existing OpenGL functions.* Vendors can use extensions to expose custom APIs without needing support from other vendors or the Khronos Group as a whole, which greatly increases the flexibility of OpenGL. All extensions are collected in, and defined by, the OpenGL Registry.



When i said "Co-developed", extensions is what i meant. The additional methods/functions that trigger draw calls for some extra functionality over previous versions.
Of-course you have to code the driver accordingly to use that extra set of extensions. 

So here you are saying if Nvidia extends the open-gl api with a method, lets say "xyz" that supposedly arranges the vertices in a 3d shape. Now if AMD wants to do the same thing, it cannot call "xyz"
but write its own method "abc" that does the same thing and extend its own version of open-gl api and design its driver accordingly. Am i getting this right?


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## ico (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> So here you are saying if Nvidia extends the open-gl api with a method, lets say "xyz" that supposedly arranges the vertices in a 3d shape. Now if AMD wants to do the same thing, it cannot call "xyz"
> but write its own method "abc" that does the same thing and extend its own version of open-gl api and design its driver accordingly. Am i getting this right?


No, I'm not saying this.


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

ico said:


> No, I'm not saying this.



In that case, AMD also gets to call "xyz",by modifying their drivers accordingly right? If not, then i'm not getting what you are trying to say.


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## ico (Sep 28, 2013)

What I'm saying is very clear. Any Linux distribution including SteamOS has nVidia's OpenGL libraries only and only if nVidia's driver is installed. Otherwise it doesn't.

"SteamOS has OpenGL librariers co-developed by nVidia" --> this makes no sense because nVidia has no hand in making a generic OpenGL library, like the Mesa guys do.


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## vickybat (Sep 28, 2013)

ico said:


> *What I'm saying is very clear. Any Linux distribution including SteamOS has nVidia's OpenGL libraries only and only if nVidia's driver is installed. Otherwise it doesn't.*
> 
> "SteamOS has OpenGL librariers co-developed by nVidia" --> this makes no sense because nVidia has no hand in making a generic OpenGL library, like the Mesa guys do.



So according to what you say, if AMD driver is installed along with supported hardware, then AMD's open-gl libraries are used. So you are saying there are multiple libraries for multiple vendors and each come into play when either's driver and supporting hardware are present?

You were right about the co-developed part. These are what nvidia has done according to their press release:



> "Nvidia engineers embedded at Valve collaborated on improving driver performance for OpenGL; optimizing performance on Nvidia GPUs; helping to port Valve's award-winning content library to SteamOS; and tuning SteamOS to lower latency, or lag, between the controller and on-screen action," the company wrote in a press release. So potential hardware components likely would come by way of Nvidia as well -- though nothing is certain on that front.



So there has to be a common api. What i don't understand is "Nvidia's Open-GL". There is nothing like "Nvidia's DirectX" right?


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## ico (Sep 28, 2013)

vickybat said:


> So according to what you say, if AMD driver is installed along with supported hardware, then AMD's open-gl libraries are used. So you are saying there are multiple libraries for multiple vendors and each come into play when either's driver and supporting hardware are present?


yes.



vickybat said:


> So there has to be a common api. What i don't understand is "Nvidia's Open-GL".* There is nothing like "Nvidia's DirectX" right?*


Because providing D3D/DirectX libraries is Microsoft's job. They've taken the responsibility onto themselves. Driver only needs to listen D3D calls there. I don't know how Windows works anyway. Not even concerned with it.

But from what I know is, Microsoft hasn't taken any responsibility of shipping OpenGL libraries by default. So, drivers need to install those i.e. ship their own implementation. *eg, atioglxx.dll, nvoglv32.dll*. Microsoft only ships opengl32.dll in your Windows\system32 folder which only supports OpenGL 1.1 functions.

So, in Windows also it's upto the vendors to provide "their" OpenGL implementation.


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## aashutoshgupta007 (Sep 28, 2013)

just enjoyed it.


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## vickybat (Sep 29, 2013)

*Valve's Controller Has Been Tested. Here Are Some Impressions*

The controller is nothing like what we are used to. Its very different and the feedback has been positive by game developers.


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## Desmond (Sep 30, 2013)

Here's the layout of the SteamController :

*i.imgur.com/YJxQZaN.jpg


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## ico (Sep 30, 2013)

The controller fails for playing FIFA.

3, 4, 5 and 6 should be close to each other. I can't stretch my thumb to reach 3 when I need to shoot.

This thing still needs some fixing.


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## Faun (Sep 30, 2013)

*img.gawkerassets.com/img/191h1as78wu2dpng/original.png


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## arijitsinha (Sep 30, 2013)

ico said:


> The controller fails for playing FIFA.
> 
> 3, 4, 5 and 6 should be close to each other. I can't stretch my thumb to reach 3 when I need to shoot.
> 
> This thing still needs some fixing.



They will not care about FIFA(Origin) . Heard it is designed keeping in mind of RTS and MOBA Games also. So it is possible to Play Dota,Civ Games sitting on sofa


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## Desmond (Sep 30, 2013)

Since the SteamMachines are hackable, I am sure third party controllers would come out for specialized games.



Faun said:


> *img.gawkerassets.com/img/191h1as78wu2dpng/original.png



lol...on a similar note :

Somewhat NSFW, viewer discretion is advised.


Spoiler



*v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20130930-3a879.gif


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## arijitsinha (Sep 30, 2013)

DeSmOnD dAvId said:


> Somewhat NSFW, viewer discretion is advised.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



lol.. the last one gaben?


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## Desmond (Sep 30, 2013)

Lol yeah.


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## cyborg47 (Oct 5, 2013)

The Specs are here.

Here Are the Steam Machine Prototype Specs | Side Mission | GameTrailers


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## Desmond (Oct 5, 2013)

> The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components:
> GPU: some units with NVidia Titan, some GTX780, some GTX760, and some GTX660
> CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
> RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB DDR5 (GPU)
> ...



Looks pretty solid


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## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 5, 2013)

I prefer a nice mid tower assembled rig anytime to the steam hot box


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## cyborg47 (Oct 5, 2013)

CommanderShawnzer said:


> I prefer a nice mid tower assembled rig anytime to the steam hot box



If you'd read the article, you'd know that you already own a steam box, just without the controller and Steam OS, same goes with anyone who's got a high end PC. Also, the steam box being a living room device, Valve is also said to be releasing a streaming device, for the people who already own a kickass PC and don't like the living room ugly-fied due to the size of the cabinet. So if you already own a PC, and not interested in gaming in the living room, all you have to do is just buy the controller


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## CommanderShawnzer (Oct 5, 2013)

cyborg47 said:


> *If you'd read the article, you'd know that you already own a steam box, just without the controller and Steam OS, same goes with anyone who's got a high end PC. Also, the steam box being a living room device*, Valve is also said to be releasing a streaming device, for the people who already own a kickass PC and don't like the living room ugly-fied due to the size of the cabinet. So if you already own a PC, and not interested in gaming in the living room, all you have to do is just buy the controller



I just own a crap laptop 
not a "steam device" 
for a "steam device" said device has to have Steam OS and/or "Valve Controller".I dont want either 

Isn't this a bit small for the stuff its packing


> The 300 prototype units will ship with the following components:
> GPU: some units with *NVidia Titan, some GTX780*, some GTX760, and some GTX660
> CPU: some boxes with Intel : i7-4770, some i5-4570, and some i3
> RAM: 16GB DDR3-1600 (CPU), 3GB DDR5 (GPU)
> ...



Those dimensions are the same as
Gaylienware x51
I bet you will be able to fry an egg on the "steam device" too 


I dont think Gaben will release the device/controllers here in our great country


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## Desmond (Oct 5, 2013)

The way I see it, the SteamBox (or rather SteamMachines) are for the non techy gamers who just want something like a console to connect and play. Perhaps it was introduced to get a share of the console market.


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## gameranand (Oct 7, 2013)

Well they did said that it will run Linux and it would be a pain even for steam to run all the Windows games on it so yes it could be for casual gamers who can play the Valve games or the Indie games.


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## cyborg47 (Oct 7, 2013)

gameranand said:


> Well they did said that it will run Linux and it would be a pain even for steam to run all the Windows games on it so yes it could be for casual gamers who can play the Valve games or the Indie games.



Were you living under a rock, anand? 

Valve already confirmed that they've got about 300 games working on Linux, and they've been actively working on it since 2 years.


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## Desmond (Oct 10, 2013)

How to build your own SteamMachine :

Building a DIY Steam Machine: Full cost breakdown of a Steam Machine | Chips | Geek.com


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## amjath (Oct 11, 2013)

Mad Catz M.O.J.O. Android console will stream PC games to your TV


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## Desmond (Oct 12, 2013)

Gotta love PC gaming. So many options available. I was half expecting someone to come up with an alternative to SteamMachines.


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## cyborg47 (Oct 12, 2013)

[youtube]eeAjkbNq4xI[/youtube]


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## Desmond (Oct 12, 2013)

Looks pretty nifty. Glad someone made a video of it.


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## Desmond (Nov 5, 2013)

The first SteamMachine prototype revealed.

We play with the Steam Machine, Valve's game console of the future | The Verge

*cdn1.sbnation.com/assets/3506011/STEAM_M_console__hero.jpg



> Valve will ship 300 prototype Steam Machines to beta testers this year, and there's nothing particularly special about their specs. That’s kind of the point, though: the first Steam Machine is a computer that can fit bog standard parts just like a full-size gaming rig, and yet fit into your entertainment center. Valve's steel and aluminum chassis measures just over 12 inches on a side and is 2.9 inches tall, making it a little bigger than an Xbox 360 and smaller than any gaming PC of its ilk. And yet the box manages to fit a giant Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan graphics card and a full desktop CPU — and keep those parts quiet and cool — without cramming them in like a jigsaw puzzle.



More pics :

*cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/9243787/2013-10-23_05-20-54_verge_super_wide.jpg

*cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/9243779/2013-10-23_17-03-25_verge_super_wide.jpg

*cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/9243771/2013-10-23_17-04-29_verge_super_wide.jpg


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## CommanderShawnzer (Nov 6, 2013)

^^^^Awesome for frying burgers


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## Desmond (Mar 28, 2014)

A new design of the Steam Controller demonstrated.


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