# Online Overclocking competition with exciting prizes to be won !!



## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

*www.thehardwarelabs.com/forums/imagehost/247f316346dc20.jpg

Details are here - *THL Overclocking Competition 2008*

This is just the beginning, there will be more in the future  

Thanks !
Amey​


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## Renny (Apr 2, 2008)

WOW!!

But theres no way I can participate since I have a Pentium III.


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## hellgate (Apr 2, 2008)

OMG.i dont hav my IP35-E now so that i cud oc my E8400 to 4GHz and further.
shall be able to participate only if i get it b4 the compitition ends.


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

Its open for 20 Days.Also if you enter in 45nm category, you need to bench at 4GHz, the clock speed is set for each category.


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## axxo (Apr 2, 2008)

I think I can participate..but why the clock speed has been fixed?  and Super Pi supports win vista?? No 2d 3rd place for 3rd category why?


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

1) Clock speed has been locked because people who have better cooling will manage to OC more and hence the level playing aspect is lost,making the competition unfair.

2)Super Pi works but its shaky in Vista from what i know.You need to disable audio for it to run without errors.I dont use vista so i dont know for sure.

3) As for category C, well not all E2140/E2160 clock easily and achieving 3GHz stable for 8M to complete,is going to be tough.Also the competition targets 45nm and 65nm chips with 2MB+ cache as there is vast scope for improving the scores.No one really used E2xxx CPUs for Pi benching but that shouldnt dishearten our friends with E2xxx CPUs, hence the special category.


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## DigitalDude (Apr 2, 2008)

~Rahul~ said:


> WOW!!
> 
> But theres no way I can participate since I have a Pentium III.


hahahahaha 

I sold my P3 last year september and I thought I was the one having it longest for personal use 


_


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## axxo (Apr 2, 2008)

@darklord agree on ur clock speed lock that better coolers will yield better results. same will be applicable to other parts of hardware also..say I have single channel memory..and somw wouldve dual channel so obviously they would get max points in benchmark.. how abt asking ppl who have dual channel set to remove one module and run benchmark?


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

axxo said:


> @darklord agree on ur clock speed lock that better coolers will yield better results. same will be applicable to other parts of hardware also..say I have single channel memory..and somw wouldve dual channel so obviously they would get max points in benchmark.. how abt asking ppl who have dual channel set to remove one module and run benchmark?



99% of the users these days are on Dual Channel.Also arranging another stick for benching purpose temporarily shouldnt be a problem for you,right ?


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## axxo (Apr 2, 2008)

darklord said:


> 99% of the users these days are on Dual Channel.Also arranging another stick for benching purpose temporarily shouldnt be a problem for you,right ?



 most budget and upgrade minded users wont go for dual channel initially.
getting another 2gb ddr2 will cost me 2000 bucks as same as cooler cost...


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

how many people really use 4GB ?
Many go for 1GB x 2 AFAIK.


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## axxo (Apr 2, 2008)

darklord said:


> how many people really use 4GB ?
> Many go for 1GB x 2 AFAIK.



the classification is meaningful as you told in the first post..but there should not be any limitation in the components that one use under each category..as  one may have good memory subsytem other may have good chipset and further some may have better cooler..
you should consider the overall performance averaging out all the test results, value factor, performance,etc...that way it would prove more meaningful..


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

> but there should not be any limitation in the components that one use under each category



Didnt get you there. There is no limitation.We have only capped the clock speed.Participants are allowed to use anything they want.
Also clasification is done on basis of fab process because 45nm perform better and give better results.If there is a single category then 45nm users will get unfair advantage and ones with 65nm will stand no chance.



> you should consider the overall performance averaging out all the test results, value factor, performance,etc...that way it would prove more meaningful..


As in ? See a single benchmark is used, you are supposed to run the benchmark, achieve best timing.Its simple as that.You are allowed to tweak whatever you want at the fixed CPU speed and achieve good score.Thats all.Achieving best possible performance settings is not the aim of this competition.
Its a competition, you are supposed to strive for the best score and win,rules are there, what you are allowed to do is stated, so you just give your best shot, simple as that.


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## ring_wraith (Apr 2, 2008)

Actually, your competition is flawed in quite a few ways. Don't mean to be a spoilsport, just wanted to point it out. 

First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time. 

Overclocking is about skill, and the only logical competition that is possible is to see who can hit the highest clock speed while using a particular cooler. 

Sorry, but that's just my opinion.


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## DigitalDude (Apr 2, 2008)

ring_wraith's argument makes sense.....

instead of fixing the speed the max amount to be spent on the config can be fixed... but I dunno how it will work out to the specifics 


_


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## darklord (Apr 2, 2008)

ring_wraith said:


> Actually, your competition is flawed in quite a few ways. Don't mean to be a spoilsport, just wanted to point it out.
> 
> First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time.
> 
> ...




First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. -----> How is that so ? Infact by capping the clock speed, a same level is achieved at which everyone can compete.For example, a person with water cooling is bound to clock better,get better scores and win easily.At the same time a person with air cooling, cannot achieve this, wouldnt it be unfair for him ?



> Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time.


Although it helps, it doesnt make world of a difference. And frankly for 8M Faster HDD wouldnt make that much of a difference.
Memory timings, well just having a fancy kit doesnt help, how you tweak it to better your score, makes all the difference, doesnt this require skill and experience ?

Overclocking is about skill, and the only logical competition that is possible is to see who can hit the highest clock speed while using a particular cooler. ----> Agreed but for such a competition, the setup has to EXACT same for each participant then its a test of skills.If there is no limit on clocks for such an event, person with better cooling is going to win the competition without any hassles.

Also i know that there is no sureshot method to have perfectly fair competition but i think we have managed to make it as fair as possible.



DigitalDude said:


> ring_wraith's argument makes sense.....
> 
> instead of fixing the speed the max amount to be spent on the config can be fixed... but I dunno how it will work out to the specifics
> 
> ...



Consider this scenario,

I buy E8400,Abit IP35-E, Transcend DDR2 800

Someone purchases the same setup and gets a TRUE which costs ~ 2.6k

I instead use my DICE pot which cost me less than this.
I bench with DICE and i can gurantee you that i will get the best score out there because of my better cooling,hence better clocking and finally better score.

Is it fair ? I dont think so, why ? I had unfair advantage with cooling.

BUT if speed is locked at 4GHz for example, even if you use water cooling or LN2 or DICE,it doesnt matter. So cooling technique becomes immaterial.It all boils down to who has a better board, has good tweaking skills.

Also remember, had we organised a physical event then we would have provided the same stuff to everyone and then there wouldnt be any limits of any sorts.
That is not the case, so we had to do this.

Hope you guys get my point.

And trust me just having fancy hardware does not gurantee excellent clocks and excellent scores.


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## ring_wraith (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok, first off, I'm not a newbie to OCing and happen to know quite a bit, so I do know that when it comes to RAM, timings are as important as speed, and getting low timings with a high speed is something not achieved unless you have good RAM. Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials. 

Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is. 

In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with _the same coolers. _


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## axxo (Apr 2, 2008)

ring_wraith said:


> Actually, your competition is flawed in quite a few ways. Don't mean to be a spoilsport, just wanted to point it out.
> 
> First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time.
> 
> ...



^^exactly what i tried to say here..unable to express it properly.

most overclockers (99%) would be on upgraded air coolers...its rare to find anyone using stock coolers these days..
prohibit water cooler usage and allow air coolers atleast..instead of caping clock speed.


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## darklord (Apr 3, 2008)

ring_wraith said:


> Ok, first off, I'm not a newbie to OCing and happen to know quite a bit, so I do know that when it comes to RAM, timings are as important as speed, and getting low timings with a high speed is something not achieved unless you have good RAM. Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials.
> 
> Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is.
> 
> In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with _the same coolers. _


Ok, first off, I'm not a newbie to OCing and happen to know quite a bit, so I do know that when it comes to RAM, timings are as important as speed, and getting low timings with a high speed is something not achieved unless you have good RAM. Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials.  -----> I never said you are a noob.Even i know what difference timings make.I can say this confidently from my experience, that for SuperPi, CPU speed makes the most difference, tighter memory shaves negligible time,nothing compared to what a bump to CPU speed would shave off. So by limiting the CPU speed, we are trying to make it as fair as possible for all participants.

Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is.------> You are talking as if RAM tweaking is a walk in the park  
Also Pi timings dont revolve around RAM timings, there are other tweaks too,if the user knows them that is  

In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with the same coolers.------> Even you should have thought before making such a comment that since this is an online competition, it is not possible for us to keep a physical check on whether participants are not cheating when it comes to cooling part (If clock speed capping is not done)

most overclockers (99%) would be on upgraded air coolers...its rare to find anyone using stock coolers these days..
prohibit water cooler usage and allow air coolers atleast..instead of caping clock speed.----------> Wouldnt mind doing that, could you devise a mechanism as to keep a check on whether people are sticking to Air cooling and not water cooling or something better ?

Also,think about it, IF a user has QX, he can just play with the multipliers, clock high on even Air cooling with a decent board,doesnt even need to touch memory timings tweaks,and wins the competition,why ? because he had an unlocked multiplier ? Would that be fair ?

@ring_wraith, now that you have brought up the topic of memory clocking at high speeds at tight timings, well even with high performance kits its not guranteed.
There is expensive kits, which love high speeds but no matter what you do, just HATE tight timings.Some kits behave exactly in the opposite fashion.
Nothing is guranteed.Also to do tight timings, you need volts, not all ICs love volts, only micron do.Elpida hates anything above 2.1V whereas micron is happily clocking even with 2.6-2.7
So you see there are lot of variables involved.Also your comments try to indicate that tweaking the primary 4 timings is all it takes to better your score, let me tell you, thats not true.There are Secondary timings,tweaking which gives you great boosts,these CAN be done on value ram.

I hope i have clarified your doubts.

Also, i request you to submit some scores instead of debating the rules of the competition as we are not going to change it.


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## hellgate (Apr 3, 2008)

ring_wraith said:


> Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials.


 
i wud like to tell u that i've managed to oc my 2*1GB Transcend DDR2 667 sticks to 900Mhz @ 4-4-4-12 @ 2.2v.
since i dont hav 800MHz sticks so cudnt try oc'ing on them but may doin 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 @ 2.2v wud be possible.now this depends completely on wat ram chips u'll get with that 800 stick.
Hope u get my point.


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## vivekbabbudelhi (Apr 3, 2008)

indian overclocking community/enthusiasts  have matured a lot...

in other indian forums its not hard to find Indians having water cooling kits/cellshocks/DICE pots..
so basically i mean darky's team has done nothing wrong  in fixing clock speeds as these days those clocks are not hard to come..

basically getting highest scores in hardware requires "resources + skill"


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## axxo (Apr 3, 2008)

darklord said:


> Wouldnt mind doing that, could you devise a mechanism as to keep a check on whether people are sticking to Air cooling and not water cooling or something better ?


in that case you should also devise a mechanism to check identity of users superpi or whatever benchmarks they post..AFAIK liquid cooling isnt that much easy & affordable...ppl who gonna overclock E2160 never gonna opt for such expensive cooling for their cheapest bet proc.
i dont feel any valid reason for caping clock speed..just my opinion..
anyway good start this is....best of luck


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## darklord (Apr 3, 2008)

axxo said:


> in that case you should also devise a mechanism to check identity of users superpi or whatever benchmarks they post..AFAIK liquid cooling isnt that much easy & affordable...ppl who gonna overclock E2160 never gonna opt for such expensive cooling for their cheapest bet proc.
> i dont feel any valid reason for caping clock speed..just my opinion..
> anyway good start this is....best of luck



ppl who gonna overclock E2160 never gonna opt for such expensive cooling for their cheapest bet proc.-----> There is a different category specially for people with E2xxx series CPUs. So they will be competiting with all E2xxx CPUs.Isnt that fair ?

in that case you should also devise a mechanism to check identity of users superpi or whatever benchmarks they post------> They are supposed to post screenshots after completion for SuperPi along with CPU-Z screenshots.
We are only using SuperPi, no other benchmark is used.

Anyways enough of debating our methodology, we are not going to change it,like it or not.Whoever wants to participate is most welcome to do so.This thread is meant to inform users here of the competition and not for debating our rules and methodology.
We are not forcing anyone to participate, if someone doesnt like the rules, so be it.I cant make everyone happy.Whoever is content with the rules, are participating.
If you want to participate do so or else leave it.

Thanks,
Amey


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## darklord (Apr 6, 2008)

Bump !!
No one interested in participating ? Strange !


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## DigitalDude (Apr 6, 2008)

you might want to give cash prizes and if possible rope in some sponsors and get a great poster design 

flash drives are DUMB

I'm writing a few more views will post after some time.


_


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## praka123 (Apr 6, 2008)

^exactly


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## darklord (Apr 6, 2008)

DigitalDude said:


> you might want to give cash prizes and if possible rope in some sponsors and get a great poster design
> 
> flash drives are DUMB
> 
> ...


Thanks for your suggestions. Poster design ? What for ?
Sorry but why are Pen Drives DUMB ? Arent they useful ? Atleast we are giving a decent enough prize for an easy competition.All that is needed to be done is run the benchmark on your PC and submit,doesnt involve any sort of expenses or anything, all you need is a PC and some clocking skills.

Also please note, this is the first time we have organized something like this, there will be more to come which will be tougher and obviously carry better prizes.


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## nish_higher (Apr 6, 2008)

if i get my thermalright 90i before the deadline, i'll try to participate


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## axxo (Apr 6, 2008)

am afraid I cant do any wonder with my single channel ddr2..the only fact that keep myself out of this comp..


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## darklord (Apr 6, 2008)

axxo said:


> am afraid I cant do any wonder with my single channel ddr2..the only fact that keep myself out of this comp..



Look, participation isnt gonna cost you anything.Its totally free !
No harm to submit your score, who knows you might win the 3rd prize or something.



nish_higher said:


> if i get my thermalright 90i before the deadline, i'll try to participate



Go for it man


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## mohit (Apr 6, 2008)

I don't understand why people here want to argue against the rules and crap the thread.Just participate if you want to. Its a competition only for promoting overclocking in India. So stop arguing and start submitting your scores.


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## hellgate (Apr 7, 2008)

if only i had ma IP35-E or any good mobo with me now.


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## darklord (Apr 7, 2008)

hellgate said:


> if only i had ma IP35-E or any good mobo with me now.



the competition is open for a good 20 days, so you still have time


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## hellgate (Apr 7, 2008)

i know its open 4 20 days but i duuno if its gonna be replaced or not.


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