# Help with Setting up an Open Source Cybercafe....



## FilledVoid (Dec 3, 2007)

Hi all,
Before I start my question here goes. *No you don't get to browse for free  . * . Ok now that that's out of my system let me clear my doubt. I know an internet cafe nearby who is willing to convert all his systems to Ubuntu or any other Linux Distro since hes absolutely had no problem on his newer machines which are running Ubuntu. However there are some problems he faces in setting up the whole internet cafe with Linux. 

1. Need for single client messengers. Well since its an internet cafe he can't ask folks to create a profile and leave their profile on the computer and go. He needs something where the person can enter in a User name and their password and chat. No whistles no bells. 

2. He needs it to work for his low end machines as well. Most of them have onboard stuff and aren't the most common equipment around now a days.

3. He doesn't want a slow down in his system.  

4. He doesn't want the folks to be intimidated for browsing. 

Reasons why he wants to change.

Reinstallations  - Period 
He probably does about 10-20 of them each week.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 3, 2007)

The only problem he will face are the IMs; video and voice chat. Tho gyach implements it, its only for yahoo. No msn support. I dunno if msn will run on wine.

Other things are just fine and Xubuntu will be fine on low end systems.


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## mehulved (Dec 3, 2007)

Find some useful info here *db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/FOSS_based_Cyber_Cafe

You can enable libjingle on Kopete for voice but alas Kopete doesn't support Single Sign On


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## QwertyManiac (Dec 3, 2007)

If its like every user logs out of his system, he could keep a script running to delete all user content of ~/.purple/ (Pidgin). Such that each time a user starts it, it shows the wizard automatically.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 3, 2007)

> Chat: Chat applications that can support one time logins, i.e. there should be no need to save account information into the computer to be able to use it. No FOSS chat application fulfills this criterion. It is however possible to customize an application to support it.



Gah he would skin me alive if I told him this. Although his customers who know a bit about computers use Pidgin just fine


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## mehulved (Dec 3, 2007)

We just tried it out here, webcam works with Kopete. So, only problem is single sign on, and se per the person whom you've quoted it's not too far away. It will be coming early in the next year.


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 3, 2007)

Going really off topic...

1st really best wishes for the project... 

really not to discourege you, but I have a sad story from my end, I did try to switch to Open source but lack of user knowledge forced me back to MS platform 

its just not lack of open source softwrae knowledge, I have seen people just wont shift  its just not Open Office they want to avoide, if i try Office 2007, same result  people wont simply shift from then Office 2000/XP/2/3 platform !!! 

same with the OS or browser also...  its not FF they avoide, same result with IE7 too... many wont simply even dare to give IE7 a try


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## Faun (Dec 3, 2007)

Choto Cheeta said:
			
		

> Going really off topic...
> 
> 1st really best wishes for the project...
> 
> ...



yeah they are jaded by the change.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 3, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Need for single client messengers. Well since its an internet cafe he can't ask folks to create a profile and leave their profile on the computer and go. He needs something where the person can enter in a User name and their password and chat. No whistles no bells.


 
Both Pidgin & Kopete don't support this.


> 2. He needs it to work for his low end machines as well. Most of them have onboard stuff and aren't the most common equipment around now a days.


 
Linux will do the job just fine yaar in this case.



> 4. He doesn't want the folks to be intimidated for browsing.


 
Then install Opera or make Firefox look like IE 7.

Reasons why he wants to change.

However, why not use Windows but configure & deploy them such that it creats no problem


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

> Then install Opera or make Firefox look like IE 7.



All folks at his cafe mostly use Firefox ( he does his best to remove the use of IE) so its not the browser Im talking about , but the menus being used to reach the programs. Im sure I could probably customize it to get the same results as Windows though. 



> However, why not use Windows but configure & deploy them such that it creats no problem



Interesting point let me give you a scenario. He cant (won't is more likely)  restrict downloads, most of the viewers don't view exactly rated 18 stuff, etc basically he faces a worst case scenario on a day to day basis. He doesnt want to use Deep freeze , Ghost cause basically thats either oodles of discs or re-installation itself. Some of the machines are running Windows 98 . Not good enough to run WinXp. Let me hear your suggestions as well. 



> its just not lack of open source software knowledge, I have seen people just wont shift its just not Open Office they want to avoided, if i try Office 2007, same result people wont simply shift from then Office 2000/XP/2/3 platform !!!



He has been seeing a different result with regard to Browsing. As I said earlier most of the younger folks or a bit tech oriented folks prefer his Ubuntu systems. Don't know why. However the Office part is a valid point. He didn't mention anything about that and we all know how inter Office compatibility goes.  

I was more of hoping of building some kind of live cd that would satisfy the folks need. Don't know if this is possible but I guess it wouldn't hurt to check it out.


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 4, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> He has been seeing a different result with regard to Browsing. As I said earlier most of the younger folks or a bit tech oriented folks prefer his Ubuntu systems.



There comes the difference between 99% Literacy to 60%  here at WB 

anyway the margine is really low here who would prefer FF over IE !! mostly we have FF as alternate at all systems but rarelly we see some one using FF 



			
				exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Some of the machines are running Windows 98 . Not good enough to run WinXp. Let me hear your suggestions as well.



Hey if the system configs are that low, not able to run WinXP, then I dont think in that case u would be able to run even the letest Linux distros either....


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## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Interesting point let me give you a scenario. He cant (won't is more likely)  restrict downloads



Wait, he can restrict downloads using GPedit.


> most of the viewers don't view exactly rated 18 stuff,



Webfilter for IE 7/Firefox.



> Some of the machines are running Windows 98 . Not good enough to run WinXp. Let me hear your suggestions as well.



Use nLite to strip what u don't need from WIndows XP. I hope he isn't running a Pentium 2 200 MHz CPU with 32 MB RAM cos XP surely won't run on it.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

> There comes the difference between 99% Literacy to 60%  here at WB



I doubt literacy is the factor here. But rather his location is ideal. Hes right next to a college IHRD and there are alot of students itself browsing (we also have an engineering college nearby) 



> Hey if the system configs are that low, not able to run WinXP, then I dont think in that case u would be able to run even the letest Linux distros either....



very true, Ive been checking out distros like NimbleX . The thing only needs 250 MB and it has KDE on it :O . I have it running on my USB stick and it seems to be ok. I need to get a copy of Puppy and try it though first. but nonetheless not with the above problems. 



> Wait, he can restrict downloads using GPedit.



I think you misunderstood what I said. He won't disable downloads. And he definitely wont use anything to filter out webpages. I know this might sound gross to some but I bet half of those students at least check websites at least one a week. He wouldn't want to alienate his customers. 



> Use nLite to strip what u don't need from WIndows XP. I hope he isn't running a Pentium 2 200 MHz CPU with 32 MB RAM cos XP surely won't run on it.



Yes I have definitely being thinking of nLite to make him a Windows copy that would be quite minimalistic for the machine. Personally I would only like to use this only as a last alternative though to help out.


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## QwertyManiac (Dec 4, 2007)

Too bad there isn't a python binding for libpurple (Pidgin is a GTK frontend of libpurple) yet. Else I could have cooked up a small tailored clone for this purpose.

It exists for C/C++ though, if someone wants to do that.


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## praka123 (Dec 4, 2007)

a very good move.but yeah,when it comes to video chat,there are yet to see options.btw, with lowend system why dont he may use Xubuntu(or Icebuntu) with gtk-apps installed and make a customized windows xp look-alike.it will hopefully run on win98 able systems.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

> a very good move.but yeah,when it comes to video chat,there are yet to see options



I doubt any of the machines has a webcam at all. But I will need to confirm this.


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## praka123 (Dec 4, 2007)

^not with webcam(although problems with h/w detection!),but with the IM clients supporting Video in Linux!


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

Yafumoto seems to be promising for Y! and theres a Universal plugin being developed. Or at least thats what someone told me in #ubuntu-in.


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## NucleusKore (Dec 4, 2007)

*For text chat *Pidgin* is good. Covers most chat protocols. No need to save passwords on the pc. 

*Voice I have tried *Skype* successfully. Video I do not know.

**Xubuntu* as Praka has suggested above +1

*Office Apps - Open Office, but better if they are introduced to *Zoho*


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

> *For text chat Pidgin is good. Covers most chat protocols. No need to save passwords on the pc.



But it requires you to create a profile, although a minor inconvenience to most.


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## blueshift (Dec 4, 2007)

offtopic: installation every week??
why?
why don't he install Linux 'also' apart from Windows? so that if customer is eager for Win he can boot into Win.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 4, 2007)

blueshift said:
			
		

> offtopic: installation every week??
> why?
> why don't he install Linux 'also' apart from Windows? so that if customer is eager for Win he can boot into Win.



Due to the presence of pretty much every other piece of malware on the computer. Installing Linux with Windows still doesnt solve his concerns though.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 4, 2007)

Can u tell me here the config of the lowest end computer there?

The best & most compatible option for u is to use Windows XP stripped using nLite, along with Ad muncher, Firefox or IE 7 whatever u like, WIndows Classic skin with XPize, .net runtimes.

I have done this kind of deployment in my friends cyber cafe which as 16 computer all running AthlonXP 2000+ CPU with 512 MB RAM & WIndows XP stripped & custom deployed for his cafe only. This is also my render farm 

Just use someone common sense & method we WIndows users are familier with & you can prevent any kind of malware on any computer.

For those who want linux can use a LiveCD.


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## blueshift (Dec 5, 2007)

yah right.
If he needs to install Windows every week then he is not taking enough security measures to protect against malware.

yah right.
If he needs to install Windows every week then he is not taking enough security measures to protect against malware.

Use Live CD only if u have good amount of RAM..


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Just use someone common sense & method we WIndows users are familier with & you can prevent any kind of malware on any computer.


You think every person that comes to surf in the cyber cafe has "common sense" and is over-cautious as you are? That is the topic of this discussion. He wants to shift to a safer environment because of this problem!


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## FilledVoid (Dec 5, 2007)

> You think every person that comes to surf in the cyber cafe has "common sense" and is over-cautious as you are? That is the topic of this discussion. He wants to shift to a safer environment because of this problem!



I wanted to say this but avoided it cause I didn't want another OS1 vs OS2 comparison thread


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## gary4gar (Dec 5, 2007)

Choto Cheeta said:
			
		

> There comes the difference between 99% Literacy to 60%  here at WB
> 
> anyway the margine is really low here who would prefer FF over IE !! mostly we have FF as alternate at all systems but rarelly we see some one using FF


well i suggest you remove IE from one or two pc & install vanilla Firefox(no themes & no addons)
well i suggest you remove IE from one or two pc. and however ask where is IE then say:
*cc*:sir, there was a virus in Internet explorer, our system guys will fix it as soon as possible
*Customer*:so what i use to open wwww.orkut.com??
*CC*:sir then use this(do not say the name, just click & open) & this is alternative of internet explorer
*Customer*: ok how to use it?
*CC*: simple, type name in address bar(point to it) & press enter just like internet explorer
now when he have used it 2-3, he will not use IE again(atleast version 6) 


also, it reminds a mgt rule, i have learned "Humans always resist change"
so it applies here too


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 5, 2007)

gary4gar said:
			
		

> well i suggest you remove IE from one or two pc & install vanilla Firefox(no themes & no addons)
> well i suggest you remove IE from one or two pc. and however ask where is IE then say:
> *cc*:sir, there was a virus in Internet explorer, our system guys will fix it as soon as possible
> *Customer*:so what i use to open wwww.orkut.com??
> ...



Dont u think we have tried it ??

We did, 1st, I dont attent our cafes... so dont think that our operators are also a exp FireFox user... so any out of the box question will be very tough for them to answer...

So yes I did carrey out few session with all of them to make them comfortable with FF but still, saying IE7 had a virus which our AVS failed detect and then which curropted the system and we are fixing it makes u to lose your trust...

So its out of question to say IE7 has some problem... Simply u cant say you have a problem... Customer will not going to sit in a problemed system...

So what I did is I made FF the default browser and kept IE7 too... so user had option to use FF, operators asked users that this is an alternative to FF where as user can use IE7 too...

apart from tech students no one used FF and that too Tech students used FF only as they ejoyed the FF in built downloader 

No one used FF only because they felt it is faster than IE7, to be honest with 2 MBPS any browser runs almost the same...

When I allowed FlashGet / IDM on systems which have FF, once again that pool of FF users shifted towards IE by shifting their download needs to FlashGet or IDM....

Now comes the buniess users who use a lot of Enterprise Web Based portal Applications... once again FF comes with a compatibility issue.. I cant help it..  and I cant ask that pool of users to ask their own company to change their setup 

So see for ur self how low the percentage is who liked FF and even those who liked or prefered, look at their reason...

My project ended in a negative way  I had to return to MS platform full time


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## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

If you just need an alternative look alike this might be interesting  

*johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/firefox_internet_explorer/

Although the rest of the problems are definitely bad  . I guess the crowd we have is either folks who use the internet alot or people who don't use them at all and dont care what they get  . not to mention the Internet Cafes 75% income is probably from Students.


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## praka123 (Dec 6, 2007)

@exx:install ies4linux on his systems for those who are "must need IE" users 
that solves i suppose! 
*www.tatanka.com.br/


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 6, 2007)

@exx_2000

Quite frankly FF doesnt increase any Productivity for our self apart from the feel that yeah we are atleast open source at this platform... IE is as secure ass FF to us under group policy... and with strong AVS we never had any issue...

but in cafe business our aim is not to make our self happy  so there is no way i can think of Forcing some thing to any one... its all give choice where users may use if they like...

At any point there should not be any presure of such... for instance using FF / or any apps...



> not to mention the Internet Cafes 75% income is probably from Students.



strange we find it otherway around 

90% of students (upto 12th std) mostly comes for Porn... which we block as strong way as possible...

90% of students after 12th comes for mainly YouTube / Email / Chat / Downloads while doing those, they access Job portal, and some time their univerisy portals...

To be honest u actually dont need many YouTube or CAM / Voice chat users as its eating up bandwidth which is free as users pay a certain hourly basis charge...

To us most valued customers are the main business users, that pool uses their own Web Based portal...

So the main issue is not forcing people to use FF... its just giving them information that a product is there alternate to IE which many users in the world find better than IE... Here onwords its the user who gives his verdict that yes he will too use FF or not he will still use IE...

now what can I do as in my case i see users continuing with IE...

I am surprise to see approch of many of u linux lovers and users... I dont get one point... basically as an open source lover supporter usually one would support the choice of freedom... wont it ??

where here when I offered choice to my cusotmers why do I see that i am gievn options to actually invade that freedom.. isnt it freedom of those users to chose between a given choice in this case IE and FF ?? if they chose IE should not I value their freedom of choice ??

Why would i try and make FF loook like IE and then trick an user to force him to use FF ?? if the user doesnt like FF under its original form why should I keep trick him to use FF invading his freedom of choice ??


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## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

> I am surprise to see approch of many of u linux lovers and users... I dont get one point... basically as an open source lover supporter usually one would support the choice of freedom... wont it ??
> 
> where here when I offered choice to my cusotmers why do I see that i am gievn options to actually invade that freedom.. isnt it freedom of those users to chose between a given choice in this case IE and FF ?? if they chose IE should not I value their freedom of choice ??
> 
> Why would i try and make FF loook like IE and then trick an user to force him to use FF ?? if the user doesnt like FF under its original form why should I keep trick him to use FF invading his freedom of choice ??



Nice Point. However my post wasn't to justify using FF as a substitute but rather the fact that FF is customizable to an extent that looks like IE. Since your clients are mainly from the business sector restricting usage based on group policies etc wouldn't hurt you much . However in this guys case it would most likely send him home after the next bill comes. On the positive note there are only 2 Internet center's where I live and barely anyone goes to the other cause it has I recall 2 - 3 terminals and is in a remote location. 

Anyway, in the end I guess its going to basically be a trade off between the both. Not to mention he doesn't own a single licensed version of software. And I seriously doubt the ability of an Internet cafe owner to start purchasing actual software at these rates. I would seriously like to see what 90% of the owners would do if rules started to be enforced just like the Music Industry.


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 6, 2007)

don't bother using any KDE based desktop. it will only eat up ram.
use a light Xfce or IceWM desktop.

@cheeta: Ice can look like Windows 95 too. both have similar UIs

I suggest Vector Linux. It looks very much like Windows XP and is Based on Slackware and Xfce

You can always try to customise/tweak IM clients, which can be done on each PC

and Xubuntu too is a good idea, but go for the Dapper Drake LTS version 6.06


In bangalore, anyone who goes to an internet cafe prefers Firefox. Opera is the second option. IE is only used as a last resort.

People like firefox because:

1. Noia 2.0 eXtreme fully skinned theme
2. DownThemAll
3. Ad Block Plus
4. Flash Block
5. Google Toolbar
6. IE 7 Theme
7. Video Downloader(guess why)
8. IE Tab, which net cafe owners customize so that most IE only sites open in it
9. Feeling of superiority by most of the younger users who think Firefox is "Cooler" than IE.
10 Tabbed browsing

besides, this is the IT capital of India. So we have lots of guys who know about FF and Opera along with linux. They(mainly the first two) have become a sensation in here, because Orkut runs on FF perfectly.


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## praka123 (Dec 6, 2007)

^yeah Bengalooru ande IT hubbu.but u cant expect the same in remote places!My solution is to install systems with Xubuntu or better Icebuntu and customize it.install the gtk applications.*ies4linux* solves the Internet Explorer lacking.ies4linux looks and works the same as IE6/7 and uses IE engine afaik.I had used it when bsnl broadband usage site supported only IE6.

So,I think with a customized Xubuntu or Icebuntu(u can remaster it for cd/dvd images) with ies4linux(IE7/6),Firefox,pidgin will solve this.no piracy and no format-reinstall schedule as in windows installations.


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## ravi_9793 (Dec 6, 2007)

Dear frineds.......@ choto cheeta has proved which is most liked browser.
He tried to to shift his customers to FF..but failed.

Generally people say....firefox/ Opera is not used by most user..because they don't know about them.But here...he left systems with both IE7 and FF , and told customers about FF...than also they preferred IE.

Even Tech students...shifted back to IE, after installation of flashget /IDM.

So, why we should force user to shift to FF.Let them choose the best.


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## praka123 (Dec 6, 2007)

Help with Setting up an Open Source Cybercafe..
^my answer was regarding the OP.esp #34


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 6, 2007)

@MetalheadGautham



			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> @cheeta: Ice can look like Windows 95 too. both have similar UIs



Once again you failed to get the point...



			
				me said:
			
		

> I am surprise to see approch of many of u linux lovers and users... I dont get one point... basically as an open source lover supporter usually one would support the choice of freedom... wont it ??
> 
> where here when I offered choice to my cusotmers why do I see that i am gievn options to actually invade that freedom.. isnt it freedom of those users to chose between a given choice in this case IE and FF ?? if they chose IE should not I value their freedom of choice ??
> 
> Why would i try and make FF loook like IE and then trick an user to force him to use FF ?? if the user doesnt like FF under its original form why should I keep trick him to use FF invading his freedom of choice ??





			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> In bangalore, anyone who goes to an internet cafe prefers Firefox. Opera is the second option. IE is only used as a last resort.



This is what I cant never confirm unless I dont visit and surf at Banglore cafes for few weeks...  So yes I have to trust your stats in the fact...  

but as I wrote its completelly different in Kolkata / West Bengal at-least or even in few states of North India where I have travelled...

Also at our places most of those feature are also avialavle under IE7 and some 3rd tool like ad blocking is archived via KIS or download options via FlashGet...

I already wrote the pool of users which used FF only because of its download options.. when I added FlashGet, that pool shifted towards IE for browsing needs and FlashGet for their Download needes....


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## gxsaurav (Dec 6, 2007)

blueshift said:
			
		

> yah right.
> If he needs to install Windows every week then he is not taking enough security measures to protect against malware.


 
If you are concerned about this, then have a look at Windows StedyState...it's a boon to cyber cafe owners



> You think every person that comes to surf in the cyber cafe has "common sense" and is over-cautious as you are? That is the topic of this discussion. He wants to shift to a safer environment because of this problem


 
Make a standard user in Windows XP

Block running all exe's other then few pre-defined ones. Use admuncher...that's it

Deployment using Windows XP isn't tough. If u r willing we can help u with this on your old systems too, cos I myself have done it here.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

> If you are concerned about this, then have a look at Windows StedyState



Very interesting! I heard that he tried Deep Freeze and wasn't really pleased about that. 

Another problem with this is 



> Are you ready to download Windows SteadyState for your* genuine Windows XP computer*? There's no cost. Download it now, or look around and learn more.



I seriously doubt he even has one legal copy  . 



> Block running all exe's other then few pre-defined ones. Use admuncher...that's it
> 
> Deployment using Windows XP isn't tough. If u r willing we can help u with this on your old systems too, cos I myself have done it here.



I think the reason he doesnt block any exes is because h basically allows folks to install the programs they need on computers that dont have it. Example Computer A has IRC but is being used by random user. UberBrowser18 comes in and is said that Computer A his next nearest thing to his home is being used by someone. So he basically grumbles and gets on any system and downloads xchat, mirc and uses it  . Although i tell him to keep stuff like that installed by default he showed me another program. Theres like stuff I have to google to find. Personally I think hes trying to please  too many folks at once and thus get an ulcer from this.


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 6, 2007)

ravi_9793 said:
			
		

> Dear frineds.......@ choto cheeta has proved which is most liked browser.
> He tried to to shift his customers to FF..but failed.
> 
> Generally people say....firefox/ Opera is not used by most user..because they don't know about them.But here...he left systems with both IE7 and FF , and told customers about FF...than also they preferred IE.
> ...


No Ravi, the point is not forcing users. The point is that the owner of the cyber cafe is unable to prevent malware infections and is tired of re-installing. Plus, as to what I can make out, he doesn't own a single legal copy of any software; neither does he wanna spend.

So the only choice left is get an OSS setup. Firefox is the only decent browser (or least considered so). Hence all the discussions. He just wants to take a step in the right direction by not continuing to use illegal software. This is something to be appreciated


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## NucleusKore (Dec 6, 2007)

You hit the nail on the head infra_red_dude
I too get the feeling its all pirated unpatched systems (both OS and 3rd party softs).


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## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

> I too get the feeling its all pirated unpatched systems (both OS and 3rd party softs).



Theres no doubt in that in his case. As I said before most likely a vast % of folk running cybercafes don't have licensed software. Being able to have a maintenance free system at no extra cost is a good thing  



> neither does he wanna spend.


All of his systems were/are assembled by one of the local dudes. Considering the cost of investment one has to make to get legal software into his system would anyone want to run a cybercafe on it? I guess the answer would be based on the return he got for the investment. But in a small town like the one where I live I see no way hes going to earn that back in any time soon.

By the way this might go beyond the point of the subject but you don't actually need an original version to get updates. (He doesn't have any Vista boxes)


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 6, 2007)

^^^ Yeah, No wonder he's considering going opensource rather than keeping "piracy" alive; which is, as I said, appreciable


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## gxsaurav (Dec 6, 2007)

He needs genuine Windows to download, but not to install 



> I think the reason he doesnt block any exes is because h basically allows folks to install the programs they need on computers that dont have it.


 
Here in my friend's case, the customar simply tells the admin (my friend) that he needs so & so application & my friend then downloads & installs it for the customar using his admin account....the end result is that the user got the application too & my friend was saved from the headache of a useless download.



> The point is that the owner of the cyber cafe is unable to prevent malware infections and is tired of re-installing.


 
You can prevent malware on IE 7 & Windows too


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> He needs genuine Windows to download, but not to install


Jis thali mein khaata hai usi mein ched karta hai??!!    Lolz...



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You can prevent malware on IE 7 & Windows too


Arey yaar, this is the main point! He is not able to do that....!!!


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## gxsaurav (Dec 6, 2007)

^^^^ sure, why not ask for help here. Infac I was thinking of writing a tutorial for this in tutorial section.


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## ravi_9793 (Dec 6, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> No Ravi, the point is not forcing users. The point is that the owner of the cyber cafe is unable to prevent malware infections and is tired of re-installing.


If he is unable to prevent malwares infections on IE..than he will also not be able to get rid of these on firefox.IE is not open for malwares attacts.



> Plus, as to what I can make out, he doesn't own a single legal copy of any software; neither does he wanna spend.
> 
> So the only choice left is get an OSS setup. Firefox is the only decent browser (or least considered so). Hence all the discussions. He just wants to take a step in the right direction by not continuing to use illegal software. This is something to be appreciated


I appreciate his decision.


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## din (Dec 6, 2007)

I know one guy running an internet cafe in Cochin. Hes using Linux for quite a long time, will ask him more about it.


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## mediator (Dec 6, 2007)

exx_2000 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Before I start my question here goes. *No you don't get to browse for free  . * . Ok now that that's out of my system let me clear my doubt. I know an internet cafe nearby who is willing to convert all his systems to Ubuntu or any other Linux Distro since hes absolutely had no problem on his newer machines which are running Ubuntu. However there are some problems he faces in setting up the whole internet cafe with Linux.
> 
> 1. Need for single client messengers. Well since its an internet cafe he can't ask folks to create a profile and leave their profile on the computer and go. He needs something where the person can enter in a User name and their password and chat. No whistles no bells.
> ...


1. Yahoo messnger for Linux, gyache. Try amsn also.


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 6, 2007)

@ cheeta:

I would like to point out that this case is of a guy who runs a business. You charge for a service. Now, all he needs to do is to Change the service.

This is not deprivation of freedom.

And one more thing: unlike in your case, he was lucky enough to get linux positive results from the users. So all he needs to do is to use a simple light distro with a windows like look and feel. You get special builds of FF too for linux, which emulate IE 6 in looks. This is not cheating. Infact, he can clearly state something in a banner that often attracts the simple minded users:

This Cafe runs on superior Linux OS and Firefox Engine thats better than Windows

<<Place a pic of Tux with a guitar and A cool Firefox Logo here>>


Sure, it means nothing to you and me, but it does create a placebo effect in the mind of the user who is unaware of it. This will result in an eagerness to learn or accept something.

The only problem is the IM. Has anyone thought about running Google Talk on Wine? What about the various web based services that allow taxt chat for most services like yahoo IM, google talk, MSN messenger, jabbin, etc?


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## FilledVoid (Dec 6, 2007)

OK so I went down there to check out his Internet Cafe Software Details. Couldn't log into all systems to get hardware details so that will have to wait.

*What he has* 
Windows 98 x1 
Driver CDs
The End    

I asked him what if someone conducts some kind of Rapid Action Raid or something. He nods and says " Hah My friend has one in Cochin. Once he gets caught he will think about getting licensed versions" . 

So I ask him why not use an AV ? For the love of God , install at least a free one. Well here is something I missed from my earlier understanding of his Internet cafe . There are some students who come to Work on office and other programs. Guess what, they bring thumb drives and he basically allows them to do so . The problem is that he says that some time ago a person stormed out insisting that his thumbdrive was clean and that it was something wrong with his computer. (he was using norton at this point) He claims that the person hasnt come back yet and that he browses at the internet cafe at the other place. (This kind of worries me that hes possibly keeping tabs on everyone :O !) Further more he works on Kids projects as well. Most of the media the students bring are infected so it becomes a nusiance to have an AV <-- According to him. 



> Yahoo messnger for Linux, gyache. Try amsn also.



But that only solves the problem of two IMs. What about Jabber, Rediff Bol etc etc.



> I know one guy running an internet cafe in Cochin. Hes using Linux for quite a long time, will ask him more about it.



Please do let me know what you find  .



> ^^^^ sure, why not ask for help here. Infact I was thinking of writing a tutorial for this in tutorial section.



Please do post one  . I'm just being a sort of Mediator I guess. I get experience running Ubuntu on a few extra computers and a sense of satisfaction. If you're suggestions work for him Ill be more than glad to try them out! 

Today a professor from a nearby college came and used Ubuntu (He asked for it especially, I think he wanted to see what all the fuss the CM was making about supporting Linux). "I am very interested in this new System you have in the Cabin over there. Is there a trial version I could use?" . Well I was there and told him I have the DVD copy  and told him he could try it without installing anything either.  He got my address and said he would come by next week ! I asked him about the experience and although he didn't mind the changes in the menu the part where you had to create a profile for IM is a pain and you have to remember to delete it also so no one gets your details (I think he saved the password)


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## mediator (Dec 6, 2007)

> But that only solves the problem of two IMs. What about Jabber, Rediff Bol etc etc.


Use wine for the rest or may be meebo? 
Also I think creating Ubuntu repository (if u r using that) wud be a good idea. Then u can update one of the PCs and update the rest from the updated one. In such cases I think using mint like distros wud be nice for a quick deployment of necessary softwares and codecs!


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## Choto Cheeta (Dec 6, 2007)

@MetalheadGautham

Yes true I have never advertiesed Linux, neither I have advertiesed Windows either...

I have no problem under Windows, I dont see any reason in which I should write such statement...

I can offer a complete open source setup... which I do, how ever those setup's usually stays empty.... and eventually after few days my brother starts to condem me  so Open soirce platform goes in to dual boot, and after few days its only me who goes and runs linux as for my hobbey of testing stuff 



@MetalheadGautham

Mate, Once again your actions are suggestiong me to push open source, which I dont agree, why should I puch any thing ??

as to me it is voilating freedom of choice... what I can do and what I did, is offer a alternative and let the users to chose for that alternative...

I never wanted to buy MS Office so offered MS office in few system and Open Office in few and once again those setups stays empty, NO MS Office, no customer and mind u, its not me who will serve as the operator, so true cafe operators do lack the knowledge of Open Office.... but in anyway we had to shift to Full time MS Office solutions !!!!

at-least in Kolkata / WB I can confirm you will be out of business if u completely switch from MS platform


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## gary4gar (Dec 7, 2007)

^^^
its okay using Ms platform as long as you are using licenced copy of softwares windows,office,anitvirus etc.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> This Cafe runs on superior Linux OS and Firefox Engine thats better than Windows




So, just cos u r shouting, we all should assume that Linux is good for cyber cafes 



> The only problem is the IM. Has anyone thought about running Google Talk on Wine? What about the various web based services that allow taxt chat for most services like yahoo IM, google talk, MSN messenger, jabbin, etc?


 
Lolz...customars will leave the cafe, yaar really do u even think with your head once. Customars in cyber cafe want IM clients, a fast internet connection & some office suite....



> Use wine for the rest or may be meebo?


 
Meebo is web based, it's a no go in cafes.



> at-least in Kolkata / WB I can confirm you will be out of business if u completely switch from MS platform


 
Even in lucknow yaar


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## RCuber (Dec 7, 2007)

@exx_2000: I remember using rediff bol with wine.. but it was a long time back..


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## FilledVoid (Dec 7, 2007)

Id rather prefer not to have him Run an application With Wine. Cause it seems like its complicating the process a bit. Anyway Im keeping watch on a few messengers out there and keeping my fingers crossed that someone will develop one .


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

Exx_2000, this is for you. How to secure a system running Windows.


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## mediator (Dec 7, 2007)

Many companies that I have worked in have all of them as in ur little tute. But still people cry about e-infections. U gotta understand that its windows after all and u simply dont have a chance of running VISTA on low end machines!! We all know how latest softwares for windows demand more RAM and highers specs.

I tried to run IE7 on a newly installed low end machine with 256 MB RAM and 1.8 GHz loaded with Avast AV and Zone Alarm running on XP/SP2 and the system was like crawling.

I hope u dont want to make a dead beat out of that poor cyber cafe owner like that, do u?

@exx : Install mint or create repositories then n Njoy! Ur problem lies in messengers only which u can resolve using wine. Neways its ur wish.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> u simply dont have a chance of running VISTA on low end machines!!


 
Ok first of all, many companies are still running Windows XP SP2 & the tutorial also applies to XP SP2 as Windows defender is available for WinXP too.

2nd, many companies don't upgrade there software unless they absolutely have to. Employees in HP bangalore are still not allowed to upgrade to IE 7 on there office given laptops, so is in Vertex delhi.


> I tried to run IE7 on a newly installed low end machine with 256 MB RAM and 1.8 GHz loaded with Avast AV and Zone Alarm running on XP/SP2 and the system was like crawling.


 
I doubt that....Memory usage of IE 7 is less then that of Firefox. Why don't u try again with antivirus disabled. You don't need it running all the time if u have a firewall.



> I hope u dont want to make a dead beat out of that poor cyber cafe owner like that, do u?


 
One of my friend is running his cyber cafe here since the last 4 years without any problem, having configuration or AthlonXP 2000+, Windows XP SP2, 512 MB RAM, 40 GB HD , IE 7 with IE 7 pro, Opera, Firefox , Ad muncher, Spybot S&D & Kaspersky antivirus on his main system.

The user account is limited on the nodes due to which customars can't download & install anything they want. They first have to tell the admin (my friend) that they need some software & then my friend installs it for them on the node & saves the setup on his server for later use.

Customars also can't execute any exe other then a few predefined ones, this takes away the problem of Virus. For example, a user inserted his pen drive in one of the nodes & it double clicked it but the brontok infected exe didn't run due to restriction.

The system's are now running a n-lited edition of Windows XP SP2 with proper runtimes like .net 2.0, JAVA runtime installed. Since the hardware configuration of most of them is same, he has simply made a norton ghost image of one computer which he can quickly deploy on c:\ drive of any node when required in case of failure.

Documents of customars are saved in D Drive not C, due to which a replacement by ghost image, the documents & files of customers stay intact. C drive only contains the OS & program files.

Deployment using Windows XP for a cyber cafe isn't tough or impossible or high system requirment demanding, it's easy...you just don't know how to.



> Ur problem lies in messengers only which u can resolve using wine


 
The interface fonts of Google Talk & Yahoo messenger 8/9 will not work once used via wine


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## FilledVoid (Dec 7, 2007)

> Exx_2000, this is for you. How to secure a system running Windows.



I appreciate your effort in posting the thread. If it was my PC I just use an Avast AV and Comodo with updates does the job for me. I guess that the "common sense" fact is a main issue where my comptuer would vary with his. Please note I didnt shift to Linux cause I had security problems on Windows XP  . Anyway I dont think I or the cybercafe used Ad Muncher before. Ive never felt it necessary (I don't browse alot of sites. Just some I read casually) . I will ask him to deinifltey try one of those. And saving the install programs on a server is definitely a good idea. I think he already does that for programs like mirc, messengers, Skype etc.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

just make a standard user with restriction on which exe's (usually programS) he can run & all your virus problems will be solved.

I have done this on my sister's user in my computer. Even if she gets a virus it doesn't run


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## infra_red_dude (Dec 7, 2007)

^^^ That is what the cyber cafe owner doesn't wanna do!


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## MetalheadGautham (Dec 7, 2007)

@saurav: I was trying to tell him to do something that causes something good. Unlike what you thought, I was neither shouting nor suggesting it, but as you took it that way, good for you

@Choto Cheeta: I understand your condition, but I was not advicing you, I was advicing exx_2000. In your case, I am sorry to say that most bengali folk are not into computers. They are more into management, science, etc. I have a brilliant bengali as a friend who looses out completely in computers but aces everything else. But exx_2000 is in kerala, where the problem is absent.

@exx_200: There is nothing we can do without hardware knowledge. Windows is out of question, because of the ongoing raids and the owner's unwillingness to buy original software. So its no use going after saurav's idea about windows, IE7(sincearly I doubt it will run), and company. Kerala, along with cities like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, etc is technically advanced enough thesedays to use Linux, as many people in these places experiment with "geeky" stuff.

The Objective now is to provide a UNIX that runs on the hardware config mentioned by him, and is simple and easy enough to understand, and the menus are located in places similar to windows preferably. IceWM is good for this.

The other, More important objective is to get a chat program for him.


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> ^^^ That is what the cyber cafe owner doesn't wanna do!



Not quite, the users can install & use application they want, just that the owner has to be informed first.

Suppose he goes OpenSource, then anyone can install anything via synaptic (assuming ubuntu)....the pc will become a living nightmare

I guess someone needs to make a new Pidgin based IM client which can work without making a profile first.


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## praka123 (Dec 7, 2007)

^no,local user cant install from synaptic(though he can run local scripts)  that is what differs Linux and Mac from Windows 8)


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## din (Dec 7, 2007)

@praka123

The internet cafe in Broadway (near Alappatt Super Shoppe, Cochin) runs on Linux, that also for quite a long time. I didn't get a chance to get details from that guy but I think he is running it smoothly. One thing is hes very good in Linux, so troubleshooting is not at a problem for him.

@exx_2000, just curious, from which part of Kerala you are ?


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## gxsaurav (Dec 7, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> ^no,local user cant install from synaptic(though he can run local scripts)  that is what differs Linux and Mac from Windows 8)


 
If you block running any exe other then a few pre-defined ones using GPEdit then even in Windows a local user cannot install programs.


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## FilledVoid (Dec 7, 2007)

> @exx_2000, just curious, from which part of Kerala you are ?



Near Tiruvalla.



> I guess someone needs to make a new Pidgin based IM client which can work without making a profile first.



Seriously someone has to just do that. I can't believe no one has already  .



> @exx_200: There is nothing we can do without hardware knowledge. Windows is out of question, because of the ongoing raids and the owner's unwillingness to buy original software. So its no use going after saurav's idea about windows, IE7(sincearly I doubt it will run), and company. Kerala, along with cities like Bangalore, Hyderabad, Chennai, etc is technically advanced enough thesedays to use Linux, as many people in these places experiment with "geeky" stuff.



I will get those configurations as soon as possible. Its just that Ive been busy with some assignments that I cant get there when its not busy.


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## Vivek788 (Dec 14, 2007)

well...u can give ads for open source intiatives at the cafe`...tat wud promote the users to try out firefox and other OSS....banners,stickers etc can be provided...he can also order a few ubuntu cds for distribution to interested ppl...i wud suggest tat kinda campaign wud make most users to try out new softwares...also provide IEtab for firefox in case they are adamant...about IM and office suite....modifications are possible na..u can get some programmers to modify the user interface to make the profile creation luk like somethign very attractive...as part of the same ad campaign....hope u like this idea...


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## gary4gar (Dec 14, 2007)

Vivek788 said:
			
		

> also provide IEtab for firefox



isn't IE tab only supported on windows version of FF?
one can install IE 6, if anyone needs that


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## praka123 (Dec 14, 2007)

ietab doesnot work in linux,infact where is IE in Linux though there is a chance by which ies4linux using wine  running ie6/7 opens up the site if an extension is made


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## Cyrus_the_virus (Dec 14, 2007)

I have been facing the similar dilema and after a lot of looking aroung and researching I have come to this conclusion.

The problem with IM clients is not just limited to Linux, it has the exact same problems in windows as well. The only difference is that in windows, they have the actual IM software for that service which makes it work the way you want to. But take any other AIO IM software whether it's windows or linux and the scenario is the same.

Trillian, Miranda, Pidgin etc all work in Windows, but it has the exact same problem of profiles. All these softwares work on a profile based system regardless of whether it's windows or Linux.

And also the voice and video capabilities are the exact same as in linux. The problem is that 3rd party IM manufacturers can't make the proper video and audio interfaces because of proprietary codecs used by Yahoo and Microsoft. So, this is not just a problem limited to Linux, you have the same issues in Windows as well. You don't notice it in windows because most of the times you end up using the original IMs like Yahoo messenger and MSN messenger.

If this situation needs to improve for linux, the open source community can do very little about it because of the  proprietary issues. What needs to be done is that Microsoft and Yahoo needs to start developing their IM's to work on Linux. Yahoo has an outdated version already but I doubt if Microsoft is even going to bother or perhaps sue someone who might attempt to have a go at it. *gigasmilies.googlepages.com/23.gif


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## Vivek788 (Dec 16, 2007)

yeah understood the IEtab thing...

btw @Cyrus_the_virus...u r correct...commercial applications are being sacrificed at many fronts by sticking to open source...this situation has to change...like the coming of GUI and absence of viruses made linux more popular...the quality of OSS should be pushed up to allow more users to flock to it...


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