# Need to Upgrade my Exisiting Config [Greedy HAF]



## d3p (Nov 25, 2011)

Exsiting Config



Spoiler





*Component*
|
*Make*
*Processor*
|Intel i7 920 DO @ 3.8GHz
*Processor cooler*
|Thermalright Venomous X with CM R4's Push Pull
*Fan Controller*
|NZXT Sentry II - 5 fans of max 10w each
*Motherboard*
|Gigabyte X58A-UD7 Rev 1.0
*RAM*
|Corsair Dominator 3 x 2GB 1600MHz C8 
*Graphic Card*
|Palit Geforce GTX570 1.2GB Sonic Platinum
*HDD*
|WD Cavair Black 1TB's in RAID 0 mirror
*Optical Drive*
|LG 22x Super Multi DVD R/W
*PSU*
|Corsair AX850
*Case*
|Cooler Master HAF 932
*Monitor*
|Alienware OptX 2210 21.5 Full HD
*Webcam*
|Logitech HD C310
*Mouse*
|Razer DeathAdder
*Keyboard*
|Logitech G15
*Mouse Pad*
|SteelSeries SG Extra Large
*Sound Card*
|Asus Xonar DX 7.1ch
*Speakers*
|Logitech Z2300 2.1 THX Certified




1. What is the purpose of the computer? (Note: If you are planning to say multimedia, you will have to be more specific as all types of systems are capable of doing that)
A: Gaming @ HD Resolution, Watching HD Movies, Ripping Music, all other stuffs like Office, some electronic circuit simulations like Mathcad, Orcad, ....... 

2. Are you open to alternate ideas/products giving similar better performance but offering more VFM/ sellers? If not- why?
A: Yes, why not

3. What is your MAX budget?
A: 60k+ for upgrading, not for a complete Configurations. [Flexible Budget]

4. Planning to overclock?
A: Obviously Yes. Already have Venomous X for Processor.

5. Which OS are you planning to use?
A: Windows 7 Ultimate x64; already have.

6. How much hard drive space is needed?
A: already have two WD Cavair Black 1TB's in RAID 0 mirror.

7. What resolution will the screen run at & whats the size of the screen you want? If you already want have one and want to use it, mention its resolution and size.
A: 5760x1080 ; Yes, its not a typo. Its *Nvidia Surround 2D* is required.

8. How would you rate your hardware knowledge from the count of 1-10? (1 being the lowest, 5 being you are somewhat in sync with the current performers and 10 being the highest)
A:7-8

9. Have you ever built a desktop before or will this be done by an assembler?
A: Yes, number of times.

10. When are you planning to buy the system?
A: Within Jan 2011

11. Are you one of the types looking out for "future proof" configurations?
A: Nothing is futureproof except PSU & Cabinet, which i have already.

12. Are there going to be any components that you don't want to include in this new rig? If yes, do mention.
A: Processor, Motherboard, RAMs, Cabinet, PSU, HDD, KB, Mouse, Speakers, webcam, Headphones.

13. Which city do you live in and are you open to buying from shops from other city/states?
A: Few from Online & mostly local shops preferred.

14. Mention any other points if deemed necessary
A: Basically I need 3 Monitors, each of 24inch LED Full HD.
Another GTX570 1280MB.
Another UPS for CPU, as existing Microtek 1KVA will be used for Monitors only.

So feed your comments over Monitors & GPU upgrade.

TBH I don't have any plans for 3D Surround as of now.

December end is deadline.


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Nov 25, 2011)

2 more OptX 2210 @ 30-35k?

for GTX570 surround, a nice article -
The Effect of GPU Memory on Surround & Stereo 3D Performance - Page 5
so do you play witcher 2 and shogun 2?


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## d3p (Nov 25, 2011)

Well i'm thinking of some 24inches or even bigger after selling off existing Alienware 2210 OptX.

& do you think 570 SLI is worth for 5760x1080 ????


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## Jaskanwar Singh (Nov 25, 2011)

imo sell off your gtx570 and get a EVGA GTX570 2.5GB in sli. 
or a 6970 cfx for eyefinity.

or why dont you wait till HD7000 come.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 25, 2011)

you are semi-screwed at 60k, if you want quality IPS panels (dell only sells the slow 8ms IPS panels here, not the 5ms ones).

In TN you get good choices but then its 45k for 3 decent monitors.

I doubt you can get a 570 at 15k, and then the 1.25GB in SLI will be a problem for a number of games.

In your case I'd get a 1600p monitor, sell the 570 and then get two 2.5GB 570s


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## d3p (Nov 25, 2011)

Ok pushed the budget to 1l.
Whats the possible solution then ?

Probably selling existing monitor & Graphics Card.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 25, 2011)

Two GTX 580 3GBs and 3 45k TN panels 

I'd also suggest that you get 12GB RAM.


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## vizkid2005 (Nov 25, 2011)

+1 for 2 GTX580s ... or if u could wait for the HD7000 series ... if ure putting this much money in wait 4 HD7000 IMO strictly ... otherwise 4 now 2 580s are best ... 

Sent from my GT-I5500L using Tapatalk


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## d3p (Nov 26, 2011)

Do you guys think my AX850 can take that sh!t ????


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## vickybat (Nov 26, 2011)

^^ Buddy if you are ready to splurge 100k, then i strictly suggest to hold your horses until amd 7 series and nvidia kepler show up. They are going to be 28nm gpu's and therefore will consume far less power compared to current cards.

No point in buying another 570 as it will be cramped in a triple monitor resolution. A 69502gb cf will surpass it due to extra vram. 

For monitors,skip the tn's and go for ips panels. Dell's u2311h (led version) or Asus  PA238Q or the newly released 248Q. All of them are excellent and will have much better colour reproduction than TN panels. 

Btw when did a 2.5gb 570 was launched??


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 26, 2011)

Deb I noticed the PSU just now. You need at least 1000W to be able to not peak out your power draw.

Vicky EVGA had launched it.

also those Dell ones wont cut it because the response time is 8ms. There will be significant frame lag especially in multiplayer.

Even the Asus one is slow. You want 5ms or less.


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## The Sorcerer (Nov 26, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> dell only sells the slow 8ms IPS panels here, not the 5ms ones


Overexaggeration. It doesn't matter. Manufacturers label Gray to White to Gray's response times as 5, but usually black to black response time somewhere around 8-_ish_ (in this day of age, newer models, atleast a year older ones) which does the job. Don't fall for marketing dialogues.

2x GTX 580s? Gaming on which screen resolution.


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## vickybat (Nov 26, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Deb I noticed the PSU just now. You need at least 1000W to be able to not peak out your power draw.
> 
> Vicky EVGA had launched it.
> 
> ...



There will be no such problem. Sorcerer is right. Its a marketing gimmick. They usually label grey to grey response time and its not a correct measure. So a 2ms display is not actually 2ms but much higher. 

Nowadays, none of the lcd panel types produce ghosting due to fast moving images. Both the dell and asus will do a wonderful job in op's case.

*@ Sorcerer*

Buddy he's going for a triple monitor setup i.e an effective resolution of 5760x1080.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 26, 2011)

Its no gimmick. The Contrast Ratios, Colour gamuts etc usually are.

The problem is that the input-lag, multiplayer latency add to the response time and so you are a few frames behind what is actually happening. This is enough in a multiplayer match to make you look like a bad player. Even SLI/CF add to the latency.

I was not talking about ghosting. Sorry if it looked that way.


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## vickybat (Nov 26, 2011)

^^ Oh i guess i got you wrong. Can you post some more detailed info about how response time effects a multiplayer session and how input-lag has anything to do with it? 

Some good articles will do just fine. Really want know more about it.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 26, 2011)

A friend of mine who uses IPS panels told me about this.

Display lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The thing with SLI/CF is that the image processing induced latency increases as the data is transferred back and forth between the GPUs.


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## d3p (Nov 26, 2011)

Ok, Here's Phase 1.
*
Monitors : Asus VK278Q 27" LED - 20k each at Golcha IT.
Stand   : Deluxe Triple Monitor Stand 28inch Each -6k
APC      : APC BR1500 - 12k

Racing Wheel :  Logitech G27 - 15k + Racing Wheel Stand - 5k

GPU : Mostly Nvidia Kepler. [(Spare Budget of 60k)Undecided at the moment]

But if not Kepler then, can my AX850 drive a 580 3GB SLI ????*


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 26, 2011)

It could but you will be very near its rated power in most GPU intensive games.


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## MegaMind (Nov 26, 2011)

d3p5kor said:


> But if not Kepler then, can my AX850 drive a 580 3GB SLI ????[/B]



AX850 should be fine..


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 26, 2011)

Megamind: no. It will be close to rated draw and OCing will be a PITA. You want an HX1000 or something man.


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## The Sorcerer (Nov 26, 2011)

Sandy would have pulled it off. This is too close for comfort TBH even if it does pull it off. I always prefer to utlitize 80% of a psu's potential. Cards+ rig+ memory+ fans+ hard drives comes into play as well. Wise move to ease up and grab a 1000w unit. Also there's a unit from Antec Quattro. You can check up on that too. Sexed out AC adapter. But do make sure you have a good surge protector and the main AC plugs are good enough as well. 

2x 570GTX for that resolution is pretty much like bare essentials.


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## vickybat (Nov 26, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> A friend of mine who uses IPS panels told me about this.
> 
> Display lag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The thing with SLI/CF is that the image processing induced latency increases as the data is transferred back and forth between the GPUs.



It has nothing to do with the screen's response time. Display lag is a thing of past now and and newer monitors are free from this issue. Its has said fast paced games are often plagued by display lag of a monitor for eg. tekken.

Now i have played tekken on my hdtv which has an ips panel and it showed no signs of display lag. So i think it not much of a concern for op here.

See this:


> _
> Display lag is a phenomenon associated with some types of LCD displays, and nearly all types of HDTVs, that refers to latency, or lag measured by the difference between the time a signal is input into a display and the time it is shown by the display. This lag time has been measured as high as 68ms,[1] or the equivalent of 3-4 frames on a 60 Hz display.* Display lag is not to be confused with pixel response time*._



Its from the same link you provided.

And here's another:


> _*
> Anecdotally, display lag is significantly less when displays operate in native resolutions for a given LCD screen and in a progressive scanning mode. External devices have also been shown to reduce overall latency by providing faster image-space resizing algorithms than those present in the LCD screen.*_



So you see, running at 1080p or higher has much lesser display lag issue and is non-existent tbh especially in progressive scanned mode.


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## MegaMind (Nov 26, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Megamind: no. It will be close to rated draw and OCing will be a PITA. You want an HX1000 or something man.



Nvidia recommends TX950 for 580 SLI..


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

The AX850 is not a TX950.



vickybat said:


> It has nothing to do with the screen's response time. Display lag is a thing of past now and and newer monitors are free from this issue. Its has said fast paced games are often plagued by display lag of a monitor for eg. tekken.
> 
> Now i have played tekken on my hdtv which has an ips panel and it showed no signs of display lag. So i think it not much of a concern for op here.
> 
> ...



It is obvious you have been unable to grasp what I said.

The problem is that vs. TN panels the images appear at a later time to you.
In single player there wont be much difference but in multiplayer it can be a live or die situation. If your opponent is able to get updated a few moments before you about the surroundings then he has the upper hand. This is most noticable when both of you have similar pings to the server you are playing on.

Also I never said pixel response time. I said monitor response time. The amount of time taken by the monitor's chips to convert the data sent to it by the GPU.
The manufacturers note their native resolution response times btw.

IMHO the Dell SP2309W makes a good buy even now due to its fast response times, good colour reproduction(98% of the normal colour gamut) and amazing 2048x1152 native resolution, making it sharper than any 23" Ultrasharp monitor lol.


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## vickybat (Nov 27, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> The AX850 is not a TX950.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It will be easier to grasp if you explain properly and not in bits and pieces.The thing in bold is display lag right??  

Why are you saying specific IPS panels are prone to display lag? Can you give some fitting proof? Why TN panels have the edge?? I'm sure it has nothing to do pixel response time which is same as monitor response time( both are the same thing and not what you say). It was clearly written in that wikipedia link you provided.

Give proper reasons to validate your points so that we can really learn from them.



> *
> The problem is that vs. TN panels the images appear at a later time to you.
> In single player there wont be much difference but in multiplayer it can be a live or die situation. If your opponent is able to get updated a few moments before you about the surroundings then he has the upper hand. This is most noticable when both of you have similar pings to the server you are playing on.*



Can you justify the above and give proper reasons why this happen on specific ips panels and not in tn ones?


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## d3p (Nov 27, 2011)

Ok Guys...Good News AX850w can kick those 580 SLI.

Lets go by the reviews first...

Legit Reviews : _*Click Here*_

Other CF & SLI Cards Power Consumption.

*www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1488/power-consumption.jpg

Even i ran Extreme Power Supply Calculation from Outervision with OCed Processor & every thing maxed out. Theoretical value suggests 780Watts & 850w is a safe limit.

A Single GTX580 draws almost 12v, 40A making a total of 360w at worst case, whereas in SLI it draws squeezes out almost 600w. So I'm safe now.

So lets continue with displays & ups.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

vickybat said:


> It will be easier to grasp if you explain properly and not in bits and pieces.The thing in bold is display lag right??
> 
> Why are you saying specific IPS panels are prone to display lag? Can you give some fitting proof? Why TN panels have the edge?? I'm sure it has nothing to do pixel response time which is same as monitor response time( both are the same thing and not what you say). It was clearly written in that wikipedia link you provided.
> 
> ...



I didnt say "specific IPS panels". These things have to be experienced.
Its that images will appear faster in TN panels vs. IPS panels and so you can react earlier. In fast paced multiplayer split-seconds count.

In single player there should hardly be any difference while gaming.

If the OP can wait, 120 FPS 3D Vision IPS panels will be coming in a few months. These should defeat all the current TN panels.

Deb extreme outervision is hardly a reliable source.

Account for your OCing also.


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## vickybat (Nov 27, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> I didnt say "specific IPS panels". These things have to be experienced.
> Its that images will appear faster in TN panels vs. IPS panels and so you can react earlier. In fast paced multiplayer split-seconds count.
> 
> In single player there should hardly be any difference while gaming.
> ...



There are no 120fps panels. I think you meant 120hz panels supporting 3d. I asked you to give some fitting proof to justify your claims and you still didn't give any. 

Afaik, display lag is a thing of past and now, no monitors are severely affected by this phenomenon. There won't be any slower reaction in fast paced multiplayer games unless you don't have a fast enough internet connection.

There won't be any lagging due to the display itself. All newer monitors are free from it.This has been seen and experienced.


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## ico (Nov 27, 2011)

vickybat said:


> Can you justify the above and give proper reasons why this happen on specific ips panels and not in tn ones?


He wrote that pretty clearly didn't he? The decoders aren't going to be equally fast in every monitor make?



Extreme Gamer said:


> The amount of time taken by the monitor's chips to convert the data sent to it by the GPU.


I won't conclude by saying TN will _always_ be faster than IPS. Things will obviously vary.

Playing Tekken with your controller isn't going to prove anything about display lag. You have to play a FPS game and a fast one that is. I've played Quake 3 all my life.

For my LCD panel which "claims" 5 ms response time:


Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/6kiTL.png


(remember doing this earlier, I used to be around 180-190ms)

For my IPS LCD TV which "claims" 2 ms response time


Spoiler



*i.imgur.com/rJ5dZ.png



Try out yourself: *Human Benchmark - Reaction Time Test*

React when the colour changes.

Might as well try this out: Response time - Lagom LCD test

This includes every latency. From your brain's reaction to the click, time taken by the PC to register the click etc. Plus, I was using mini DP to VGA converter for the LCD monitor.

*One more off-topic post in this thread = a three day ban. Sort out on PM. Thanks.* We aren't catering to the OP with this discussion.  Don't think we as hobbyist online gamers are affected as such.


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## vickybat (Nov 27, 2011)

*@ d3p5kor*

My suggestion is to stick with AX850 and opt for next gen cards. They will consume much lesser power for sure. Don't go for 3gb 580sli now. You will be using more than 80% power of your psu which isn't a bright decision. Waiting is good. Till then use one monitor and game on your existing card.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

UCP-900 is as sturdy as TX-950. It is also discontinued IIRC.

AX850 is very strong but I would like to stay at least 150W away from rated wattage. remember that efficiency takes a U-turn past rated wattage.


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## d3p (Nov 27, 2011)

Yes, but i will stick to AX850 & let the PSU burn for whatever reason. Its under warranty for next 6 years. So its fine, let it be a risk.

Will it be a wise move to sell off the i7 920, Gigabyte UD7 & Dominator 6GB CL8 kit for Sandybridge ???


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

It may not burn. Its OCP will kick in and may not let you run two 580s.

If it burns it could kill your other parts too.


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## d3p (Nov 27, 2011)

If thats the case then Kepler or Radeon HD7xxx is worth to wait.

But again, what about a Single GTX590 ??

Reviews are good, but noisy as well as a Hot Piece.


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## max_snyper (Nov 27, 2011)

^^the next gen gpu's are not drastic improvement over the current gen gpu's
the only thing is they offer more performance on lower power requirement.....!
if you are ready to wait for 1~3 months then u will be able to get these gpu's.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

You can get a 590 but its 1.5GB/GPU, not true 3GB.

Wait for kepler (Southern islands will come out at least 2 months before it). Also wait for new Monitors.


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## MegaMind (Nov 27, 2011)

Extreme Gamer said:


> It may not burn. Its OCP will kick in and may not let you run two 580s.
> 
> If it burns it could kill your other parts too.



No chance of that, as OP is not planning on running CPU & GPU @100% load 24x7...


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 27, 2011)

That doesnt mean OCP cant kick in.


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## MegaMind (Nov 27, 2011)

One should always have some headroom left for the PSU..

But AX850 for 580 SLI + OC'ed CPU is still Safe.. 
All units are not the same, just to let you know,

AX850 overload tests

Check this. 
*www.guru3d.com/article/asus [...] i-review/8 

800+ watts for SLI. They also overestimate the watts by a bit for some reason.

Also read *this*


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## d3p (Nov 28, 2011)

*@Megamind:* Yes thats a nice piece of info.

But what *EG* tries here to explain is, it might be safe to squeeze out 1000w or more than the rated Power, but not a good idea for longer run as the efficiency or the lifetime of the components might be effected.


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## MegaMind (Nov 28, 2011)

^^I understood that part. All i'm trying to say is,



> It may not burn. Its OCP will kick in.
> If it burns it could kill your other parts too.



This part is overexaggerated...


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 28, 2011)

My AX-1200 burned and killed my mobo, RAM.

Got the RAM and PSU RMAed. Waiting for mobo to complete process.

Worst part is that I didnt even overload it.


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## d3p (Nov 28, 2011)

PSU getting burned is a different case, especially when AX1200 has Over-voltage and over-current protection, under-voltage protection, and short circuit protections.

BTW refer the below link, a lot of issues have been noticed earlier also.

*Click Here* Refer the feedback sections from the Buyer.

Now i highly doubt, its case where PSU is the culprit for burning other system components. It might be some sort of High Voltage Spikes from the Mains or ESD from your Body or may be some other reasons.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 28, 2011)

> Now i highly doubt, its case where PSU is the culprit for burning other system components. It might be some sort of High Voltage Spikes from the Mains or ESD from your Body or may be some other reasons.



Nope. It was a bad PSU. I had pinpointed the fault.

In the long term your PSU if dying CAN end up damaging PC parts.


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## d3p (Nov 28, 2011)

How long you have used your AX1200 ?? I think max from last 8 - 10 months.

Do you think 1yr of heavy usage will bring the AX1200 into his knees ?? On top its a proven product in the market from last couple of years.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 28, 2011)

I used it for 4 months before it died. It wasnt overloaded in any way.

I got a new one via RMA but waiting for my mobo to come from RMA before I can actually use it.

Use your AX850 with two 580s. OC the runts like crap. Dont blame me if your PC shuts down during heavy loads. Dont blame me if your PSU dies premature and if some PC parts are damaged.
There is a reason 900W is the minimum you see recommended (and that is a discontinued product). A guy's lightnings in SLI caused his HX1000 to shut down during heavy OC sessions. He ended up buying an Antec HCP-1200.


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## d3p (Nov 28, 2011)

As i mentioned earlier, I don't run my PC with 4GHz + Clocks 24x7, so might not be a case to be worried for.

But ya, you are true someway, loading might have different stories in the real time scenario.


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 28, 2011)

> As i mentioned earlier, I don't run my PC with 4GHz + Clocks 24x7, so might not be a case to be worried for.



Neither did I. Only had it on for 2-3 hours a day unless downloading on steam (which was not often).



> But ya, you are true someway, loading might have different stories in the real time scenario.



Which is why I am trying to precaution you. Would you see reviews or would you listen to a real-life user who has used it for quite a lot more time than a reviewer?

The AX850 is a damn fine PSU without doubt, but it is not cut for such heavy loads. 

850W is borderline for 580s in SLI, which is why you should opt for a higher wattage PSU.

Otherwise you can go for 6970s in CF which are weaker at Tessellation but can handle 1080p 2D surround.

BUT if I was in your position I'd:

Sell the 570. 
Get two EVGA 2.5GB 570s.
Get a 2560x1600/2560x1440 monitor(30"/27").
Enjoy the size and detail improvement


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## Cilus (Nov 28, 2011)

^^ Nice suggestion.

D35kor, even I have also read in several forums that 850W is bare minimum for GTX 580 SLI. I have checked the power consumption chart provided by in this thread. 
Now  a quote from guru3d:-


> Above, a chart of relative power consumption. This is the entire PC (not just the card as just measured) *with the GPU(s) stressed 100%, and the CPU(s) left in idle.* Mind you that these are the extreme peak measurements, overall power consumption will, obviously, be lower.



So now I think you're getting my point. A GTX 580 SLI when stressed to 100% keeping CPU idle, needs around 730W of system power. Now when you're gaming you need to add another 100W/120W power consumption for a Overclocked CPU to be on the safer side. 
AX850 can provide 840W to the 12V rail but remember 12V rail is not for the GPU only, most of the components draw power from it. So I think TX950 V2 is highly recommended here.

And you are spending a lot of money. So why not to wait for just one month for the HD 7000 series? It's not like that you don't have any machine for now; your existing config can drive anything. 
So I'll pray to Lord to bless you with little patience.


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## vickybat (Nov 28, 2011)

^^ Man i've been trying to say this from quite a while now. Its really not that hard to wait a bit and spend wisely.

Next-gen architectures are promising and might deliver jaw dropping performance. No harm in waiting a bit and checking some reviews that'll pour in at that time.


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## d3p (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes, But i never wanted these Keplers or HD7xxx to act like sh!t when they launch.

Ok, then probably closing the thread make more sense now. I will open it when Kepler arrives.


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