# Why long drives in automatic cars may be dangerous for you



## whitestar_999 (Nov 22, 2019)

Source: Why long drives in automatic cars may be dangerous for you - Times of India


> Do you drive an automatic car? And do you go on long drives?
> If the answer to both questions is yes, here’s an advice: stop after one to two hours to relax your legs, wear comfortable clothes and keep yourself hydrated while driving.
> 
> Not doing so may lead to a health scare similar to what happened with 30-year-old Saurabh Sharma from west Delhi.
> ...



tl;dr Man almost died because of leg cramp while driving a car with "automatic features". @Desmond David @Nerevarine @billubakra @Vyom @anupam_pb @SaiyanGoku  any example of such cars.


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## SaiyanGoku (Nov 22, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> tl;dr Man almost died because of leg cramp while driving a car with "automatic features". @Desmond David @Nerevarine @billubakra @Vyom @anupam_pb @SaiyanGoku any example of such cars.


Most manufacturers are introducing Automatic transmission on highest variant of their cars these days. Back in 2017, we were looking to get Tata Tiago/Tigor AMT variant but it overshot the budget.
For learners, manual transmission cars should be preferred IMO. They are cheaper too.


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## Desmond (Nov 22, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> Source: Why long drives in automatic cars may be dangerous for you - Times of India
> 
> 
> tl;dr Man almost died because of leg cramp while driving a car with "automatic features". @Desmond David @Nerevarine @billubakra @Vyom @anupam_pb @SaiyanGoku  any example of such cars.


The whole article doesn't establish the relation between automatic cars (or rather "car with automatic features") and the guy's health problems. Seems like clickbait crap spreading FUD against automatic cars.


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## omega44-xt (Nov 22, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> The whole article doesn't establish the relation between automatic cars (or rather "car with automatic features") and the guy's health problems. Seems like clickbait crap spreading FUD against automatic cars.


+1
Whether your drive auto or MT, you should stop & stretch your legs every few hours. There's no advantage of MT over AT other than being cheaper, some say it helps a bit with attention, but you don't usually change gears on a highway, so I don't see how MT helps with that. You can fall asleep while driving for on a highway irrespective of MT or AT.

1 lakh premium over MT is a big amount for Indians buying something like a 5-10lakh car, whereas most cars sold in US are $20000+, so $1500 isn't much of a difference for them for the added convenience, so almost every car has AT there.


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## whitestar_999 (Nov 22, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> The whole article doesn't establish the relation between automatic cars (or rather "car with automatic features") and the guy's health problems. Seems like clickbait crap spreading FUD against automatic cars.


Seems like you are right,found this CDC article:
Blood Clots and Travel: What You Need to Know | CDC


> Most information about blood clots and long-distance travel comes from information that has been gathered about air travel. However, anyone traveling more than four hours, whether by air, car, bus, or train, can be at risk for blood clots.


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## whitestar_999 (Nov 22, 2019)

anupam_pb said:


> You can fall asleep while driving for on a highway irrespective of MT or AT.


This is illegal as well as dangerous,right? Btw how can you do this without avoiding an accident(unless extremely lucky) anyway?


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## omega44-xt (Nov 23, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> This is illegal as well as dangerous,right? Btw how can you do this without avoiding an accident(unless extremely lucky) anyway?


Yes, just saying falling asleep is possible in both cases, AT or MT. Some say MT is better as you are attentive due to changing gears, I say that's not true.


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## sling-shot (Nov 24, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> This is illegal as well as dangerous,right? Btw how can you do this without avoiding an accident(unless extremely lucky) anyway?


Looks like you missed his point. He probably meant to say that probability of dozing off while driving an automatic is higher compared to driving one with manual transmission.


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## whitestar_999 (Nov 25, 2019)

sling-shot said:


> Looks like you missed his point. He probably meant to say that probability of dozing off while driving an automatic is higher compared to driving one with manual transmission.





anupam_pb said:


> You can fall asleep while driving for on a highway irrespective of MT or AT.



I was asking about how one can fall asleep while using MT(I am not a car driver but have experience of long car travels hence the doubt).


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## omega44-xt (Nov 25, 2019)

whitestar_999 said:


> I was asking about how one can fall asleep while using MT(I am not a car driver but have experience of long car travels hence the doubt).


IF its highway, you can, esp if its a good one, like those 4 or 6 lane ones w/o a lot of traffic. Maybe you go beyond the speed limit. I try to stay under 75kmph because my father was fined once by a camera.


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## patkim (Nov 25, 2019)

My perspective on this...

Excluding the cases where a driver has been deprived of sleep or suffers from some disorders like insomnia, sleep apnea etc, chances of driver falling asleep on Indian roads is very less I suppose. I have no stats here though. Even on Expressways even though they are somewhat comparable to Interstate highways of the US, the driving is still ‘Indian’. Illegal lane cutting, honking, wrong overtaking, heavy vehicles in innermost lanes and so on, so one has to be over attentive always.

Your brain falls asleep I believe when some sort of calmness & monotony sets in. That’s why all meditation/sleep music’s have same soft tone repeatedly played again and again to let you brain feel drowsy.

Whereas in the US & other such countries the driving is very orderly, outside area on interstate highways is baron, there are no interruptions for a long time on a long stretch of road and this unchanging repeated experience of audio visual sets monotony & eventually drowsiness in brain causing fatigue and one may fall sleep momentarily. In the US they  sometimes have  shoulder rumble strips besides the road so if your vehicles veers off course away to the sides the friction between tires and the road shall make a sharp screeching noise causing you to abruptly get awake and hopefully regain control of vehicle.

So a lot of attention is given to guidelines on preventing sleeping behind steering wheel in all DMV manuals there and age related differences in driving habits and patterns.


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## whitestar_999 (Nov 25, 2019)

patkim said:


> Excluding the cases where a driver has been deprived of sleep or suffers from some disorders like insomnia, sleep apnea etc, chances of driver falling asleep on Indian roads is very less I suppose. I have no stats here though. Even on Expressways even though they are somewhat comparable to Interstate highways of the US, the driving is still ‘Indian’. Illegal lane cutting, honking, wrong overtaking, heavy vehicles in innermost lanes and so on, so one has to be over attentive always.


It may seem so but the reality is much different.
Bad night's sleep causes 10% accidents on road | Hyderabad News - Times of India
40% of highway accidents occur due to drivers dozing off

A recent case:
Yamuna Expressway bus accident: Driver likely asleep behind wheel, investigation reveals


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## patkim (Nov 25, 2019)

All those cases are of exhaustion which I have excluded from my perspective at the starting statement itself. If you are exhausted or deprived of sleep you shall fall asleep regardless of the situation even if you hear a load noise. I am talking about falling asleep under normal conditions which should be very rare in India but may happen in advanced contries.


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## omega44-xt (Nov 25, 2019)

patkim said:


> All those cases are of exhaustion which I have excluded from my perspective at the starting statement itself. If you are exhausted or deprived of sleep you shall fall asleep regardless of the situation even if you hear a load noise. I am talking about falling asleep under normal conditions which should be very rare in India but may happen in advanced contries.


My point was, you can fall asleep on highways, irrespective of transmission type. It doesn't matter the reason for falling asleep, but it surely happens in India, evidence provided by whitestar. 
As I said earlier, "There's no advantage of MT over AT other than being cheaper".

The headline is very misleading in trying to put some blame on AT. AT or MT, you should always take stops every few hours while on a long drive. Keep yourself attentive & give some exercise to your legs during such breaks, just walking a bit should be enough.


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## patkim (Nov 25, 2019)

I am referring to the query asked by whitestar_999 quoted below. Probably it seems I did not quote it correctly in the post.
Even I do think that it has nothing to do with MT or AT. It has everything to do with your health/condition and what you experience while driving. So even if you are on highway with MT and experience this state of monotony you might just fall asleep even if you are in a perfectly healthy condition. I have just slightly felt it once or twice when it was just a smooth ride once on Mumbai-Pune expressway.



> I was asking about how one can fall asleep while using MT(I am not a car driver but have experience of long car travels hence the doubt).


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## Extreme Gamer (Nov 25, 2019)

patkim said:


> My perspective on this...
> 
> Excluding the cases where a driver has been deprived of sleep or suffers from some disorders like insomnia, sleep apnea etc, chances of driver falling asleep on Indian roads is very less I suppose. I have no stats here though. Even on Expressways even though they are somewhat comparable to Interstate highways of the US, the driving is still ‘Indian’. Illegal lane cutting, honking, wrong overtaking, heavy vehicles in innermost lanes and so on, so one has to be over attentive always.
> 
> ...



Falling asleep on the wheel is a function of exhaustion, not attentiveness.


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## icebags (Nov 28, 2019)

Desmond David said:


> The whole article doesn't establish the relation between automatic cars (or rather "car with automatic features") and the guy's health problems. Seems like clickbait crap spreading FUD against automatic cars.


apparently, some blood clotting took place due to lack of movements below waist area. i might have had conditions before hand though.


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## billubakra (Dec 13, 2019)

Once you drive an AT car, you won't shift to a MT car, even if you love shifting the gears and stuff. It is so much comfortable than the latter. By saying that ofcourse an AT dzire will be less comfortable than an AT say Honda or Hyundai. No electric car will come with MT. It will have peddle shifters like they have in Taycan but not proper gears. Which car was the guy in the first link driving btw? I have stopped visiting these links, 90% of the times they are click baits and the the rest 10% are paid promotions.
Coming to the what's been discussed above, I think AD level 2 or above  will reduce accidents if it is applied with care. By that I mean improving roads, signs etc. etc. Exceptions will be there of course. Level 5, which Tesla will launch in a year or two, will mark the end of the human drivers. I highly doubt that people 20 years from now will ever drive cars.


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## omega44-xt (Dec 13, 2019)

billubakra said:


> Once you drive an AT car, you won't shift to a MT car, even if you love shifting the gears and stuff. It is so much comfortable than the latter. By saying that ofcourse an AT dzire will be less comfortable than an AT say Honda or Hyundai. No electric car will come with MT. It will have panel shifters like they have in Taycan but not proper gears. Which car was the guy in the first link driving btw? I have stopped visiting these links, 90% of the times they are click baits and the the rest 10% are paid promotions.
> Coming to the what's been discussed above, I think AD level 2 or above  will reduce accidents if it is applied with care. By that I mean improving roads, signs etc. etc. Exceptions will be there of course. Level 5, which Tesla will launch in a year or two, will mark the end of the human drivers. I highly doubt that people 20 years from now will ever drive cars.


Taycan is a unique EV that has a gearbox. Most EVs don't have a gearbox, they just use some fixed gear ratio. Taycan likely used it to get better top speed & better acceleration at higher speeds. Tesla Model S is great for a quarter-mile drag but towards the end, other super cars start catching up as Tesla's acceleration plummets at high speeds. Most won't drive at 150 kmph+, but Porsche being Porsche, needed it.

The only thing stopping the adoption of AT in India is cost, that's it. 1 lakh difference is too big for Indians who spend even 10lakh on a car. Autonomous driving is very far away for India, maybe it will be here properly a decade after lv5 adoption becomes mainstream in the US & EU. Tesla has missed its targets a lot in terms of time, let's see when Teslas become fully autonomous.


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## billubakra (Dec 16, 2019)

anupam_pb said:


> Taycan is a unique EV that has a gearbox. Most EVs don't have a gearbox, they just use some fixed gear ratio. Taycan likely used it to get better top speed & better acceleration at higher speeds. Tesla Model S is great for a quarter-mile drag but towards the end, other super cars start catching up as Tesla's acceleration plummets at high speeds. Most won't drive at 150 kmph+, but Porsche being Porsche, needed it.
> 
> The only thing stopping the adoption of AT in India is cost, that's it. 1 lakh difference is too big for Indians who spend even 10lakh on a car. Autonomous driving is very far away for India, maybe it will be here properly a decade after lv5 adoption becomes mainstream in the US & EU. Tesla has missed its targets a lot in terms of time, let's see when Teslas become fully autonomous.



I think that you are talking about the taycan turbocharged one. Yes it has a gearbox but not like the traditional ice cars. The model s's latest ota update has raised the top speed to 160+ in ludicrous/raven mode.

But still at cars are catching up with the mt cars here.


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## omega44-xt (Dec 16, 2019)

billubakra said:


> I think that you are talking about the taycan turbocharged one. Yes it has a gearbox but not like the traditional ice cars. The model s's latest ota update has raised the top speed to 160+ in ludicrous/raven mode.
> 
> *But still at cars are catching up with the mt cars here.*


Tesla used software to limit battery capacity & power output for lifespan reasons. Once they got more data on battery degradation, maybe they were fine with increasing power & still have a good battery for 8 years, their warranty period. Also I read somewhere that Tesla quotes lower range numbers than the one they got in EPA tests (US alternative for ARAI), as those tests usually result in 10-20% higher figures. Same can be said about kmpl numbers here in India, if you get a mixed FE of 20% less than official figures, you are good.

AT is superior to MT, especially dual-clutch ones. They have a manual mode, paddle shifter usually, so that's what most sports cars have it. Don't put AMT in same class as proper AT. I drove AMT a year ago, it wasn't a great experience, slow gear changes were annoying. But its surely cheaper, at about 40k premium or so, and definitely convenient in cities even if not so responsive. Didn't try it out in manual mode.


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## Extreme Gamer (Dec 20, 2019)

>AT is superior to MT, especially dual-clutch ones.

I disagree. It really depends on the particular gearbox in question and the application. Volkswagen's DSG is great, but Mercedes' torque convertors are just as good.

In normal city traffic conditions in this country a DCT will likely be worse, because 1. the gearbox is heavy 2. in stop and go traffic you don't want to feel the gear changes


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## bssunilreddy (Dec 20, 2019)

Extreme Gamer said:


> *>AT is superior to MT,* especially dual-clutch ones.
> 
> I disagree. It really depends on the particular gearbox in question and the application. Volkswagen's DSG is great, but Mercedes' torque convertors are just as good.
> 
> In normal city traffic conditions in this country a DCT will likely be worse, because 1. the gearbox is heavy 2. in stop and go traffic you don't want to feel the gear changes


Yes I agree.


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## Zangetsu (Dec 20, 2019)

Automatic cars are most comfortable to drive specially in City traffic, and all of my friends who have AT suggest me using one.  Obviously, they all have one reason of No shifting of gears manually.

Yes, falling asleep can seriously cause accidents, Last week I went to RTO for driving license and they were constantly showing Ads on TV regarding reckless driving and falling asleep was one of them.

You will not believe me when I'll tell you that my friend's friend had such accident where he had fallen asleep while going home on his BIKE....he just crashed and got so many fractures in hand and legs was bedridden for weeks but luckily escaped death.


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## omega44-xt (Dec 21, 2019)

Extreme Gamer said:


> >AT is superior to MT, especially dual-clutch ones.
> 
> I disagree. It really depends on the particular gearbox in question and the application. Volkswagen's DSG is great, but Mercedes' torque convertors are just as good.
> 
> In normal city traffic conditions in this country a DCT will likely be worse, because 1. the gearbox is heavy 2. in stop and go traffic you don't want to feel the gear changes


How is feeling gear changes relevant? Even in MT you feel it, moreover, have to do it yourself. Gear changes were good enough in DCT, CVT & TC vehicles that I rode, not sure I ever rode a DSG one though. AMT ones were the worst IMO.

Most AT would likely be heavier & you will get a bit inferior FE, but not drastic, maybe upto 10% less in real life.


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## Extreme Gamer (Dec 31, 2019)

Nowadays ATs actually consume fuel more efficiently than MTs. My Honda City burns more fuel than my Hyundai Elantra. The former is a 1.5l MT and the latter is a 2.0l AT; both petrol.

The points about gear changes is when comparing TCs and DCTs, not MT and AT.

Also feeling gear changes is relevant because of sudden changes to acceleration, which your body can actually feel. In normal operation a torque converter will mostly smooth it out, not unlike CVT, but a DCT's snap may be more noticeable. Also the point about heaviness still holds because DCTs are usually heavier than TCs for the same numbers of gears.

Again this all depends on the gearboxes in question. The difference isn't huge.


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## billubakra (Jan 2, 2020)

Debates like these will be irrelevant once Tesla launch their robotaxis in about 5 years. The future is autonomous fortunately or unfortunately,.


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## SaiyanGoku (Jan 2, 2020)

billubakra said:


> Debates like these will be irrelevant once Tesla launch their robotaxis in about 5 years. The future is autonomous fortunately or unfortunately,.


Model S is >8 years old and India still doesn't have any of them. Bulk of electric vehicles in India are Buses, taxis, auto-rickshaws and low power two wheelers. Govt. hasn't made it cheaper for public to own any good electric vehicle. Oil corps have lobbied against electric vehicle reforms. The subsidy schemes are not applicable on vehicles meant for personal use IIRC. Future is autonomous but India needs another 30 years to catch up (maybe even more).


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## billubakra (Jan 3, 2020)

SaiyanGoku said:


> Model S is >8 years old and India still doesn't have any of them. Bulk of electric vehicles in India are Buses, taxis, auto-rickshaws and low power two wheelers. Govt. hasn't made it cheaper for public to own any good electric vehicle. Oil corps have lobbied against electric vehicle reforms. The subsidy schemes are not applicable on vehicles meant for personal use IIRC. Future is autonomous but India needs another 30 years to catch up (maybe even more).


Brother I was not talking about India but the industry as a whole. Yes the Model S is 8 years old. But do you know the tons of difference in the body/features/ota/battery that are between the Model S of 2013 and Model S of 2020? Heck do you know the differences between the Roadster 2017 and Roadster 2020? Man that ludicrous mode is insane. A million miles warranty on batteries? And they are not some excide or amaron batteries but Tesla batteries. Tesla has already mastered Level 4 of Autonomous driving, level 5 will be achieved in the few months. Do you know what plans Elon has? Since last year all Model 3 cars are coming with full autonomous driving, previously one needed to pay more money, but they would be locked via ota. When the US government allows level 5 AD, Tesla will ask users whether they want to use their cars as a taxi to make more money. Even if a person has taken the car on loan but the car is paying for itself, so do the math. VW is also planning the same. This will kill companies like Ola and Uber. These companies have also started piloting AD in their vehicles btw.

Coming to India, Model 3 will be imported as a CBU from China starting from this year. Now what you have mentioned is also true. Oil companies can't do shit as even the biggest of them all Aramco knows what the future is. Subsidies of 1.5lac won't help at all. The companies also need to give better options. What is extraordinary in a Kona, MG EV compared to the price point? Nothing. Tata's ev is fine as per the price but not good. As the government has said that they won't register any ICE vehicle after 2030 and the companies are also upping the production of EV's but most importantly the customers are also willing to buy the ev's. So, I think with the introduction of Tesla, ev's will be mainstream by 2030 but not AD ofcourse. Commercial vehicles might take another 5 years.


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## Extreme Gamer (Jan 8, 2020)

> When the US government allows level 5 AD, Tesla will ask users whether they want to use their cars as a taxi to make more money...



They will need a platform to let users know that cars are available. Fragmentation into manufacturer-owned platforms will not work. They are more likely to tie up with Uber or other ride sharing/cab aggregator platforms to tap into an existing market. Especially in places where taxis are highly regulated but cab aggregators are not.


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## billubakra (Jan 8, 2020)

Extreme Gamer said:


> They will need a platform to let users know that cars are available. Fragmentation into manufacturer-owned platforms will not work. They are more likely to tie up with Uber or other ride sharing/cab aggregator platforms to tap into an existing market. Especially in places where taxis are highly regulated but cab aggregators are not.


Tesla for one isn't gonna tie up with anyone. Their AP is 10 years ahead of everyone. It is even better than Waymo. VW might but I doubt that they will. Companies like Rivian might but again that's just a speculation.


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## Zangetsu (Jan 16, 2020)

Which Gearbox you will prefer to buy ?
1. MT
2. AT
3. AMT
4. CVT
5. DCT


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## omega44-xt (Jan 16, 2020)

Zangetsu said:


> Which Gearbox you will prefer to buy ?
> 1. MT
> 2. AT
> 3. AMT
> ...


DCT > CVT > AT (torque converter?) > AMT > MT 

I think pricing is like that as well. Drove AMT once, didn't like the shifting, but if I end up in top 6 cities, I might get that. Price is an important factor though.


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## billubakra (Jan 18, 2020)

Zangetsu said:


> Which Gearbox you will prefer to buy ?
> 1. MT
> 2. AT
> 3. AMT
> ...


DSG(Nothing beats this), then CVT and then I would select something like an ev, hopefully Tesla but budget issues. The rest are all crap.


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## Zangetsu (Jan 18, 2020)

billubakra said:


> DSG(Nothing beats this), then CVT and then I would select something like an ev, hopefully Tesla but budget issues. The rest are all crap.


So, Fuel Consumption is also lower in DSG/DCT ?


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## billubakra (Jan 18, 2020)

Zangetsu said:


> So, Fuel Consumption is also lower in DSG/DCT ?


Fuel consumption depends upon the engine capactity i.e. cc, weight of the vehicle and in which mode/how it is driven. It has nothing to do with DSG.
Just drive an AT vehicle with DSG and you will feel the difference.


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## billubakra (Jan 25, 2020)

@SaiyanGoku 
@anupam_pb 
*www.quora.com/What-will-kill-Uber-1


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## Extreme Gamer (Jan 28, 2020)

billubakra said:


> Fuel consumption depends upon the engine capactity i.e. cc, weight of the vehicle and in which mode/how it is driven. It has nothing to do with DSG.
> Just drive an AT vehicle with DSG and you will feel the difference.



Not quite. Fuel consumption depends on a LOT of factors, not just engine capacity.


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## billubakra (Jan 29, 2020)

Extreme Gamer said:


> Not quite. Fuel consumption depends on a LOT of factors, not just engine capacity.


Please list those other factors and enlighten us. And I have mentioned few others too besides engine capacity.


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## billubakra (Jan 29, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Tesla used software to limit battery capacity & power output for lifespan reasons. Once they got more data on battery degradation, maybe they were fine with increasing power & still have a good battery for 8 years, their warranty period. Also I read somewhere that Tesla quotes lower range numbers than the one they got in EPA tests (US alternative for ARAI), as those tests usually result in 10-20% higher figures. Same can be said about kmpl numbers here in India, if you get a mixed FE of 20% less than official figures, you are good.
> 
> AT is superior to MT, especially dual-clutch ones. They have a manual mode, paddle shifter usually, so that's what most sports cars have it. Don't put AMT in same class as proper AT. I drove AMT a year ago, it wasn't a great experience, slow gear changes were annoying. But its surely cheaper, at about 40k premium or so, and definitely convenient in cities even if not so responsive. Didn't try it out in manual mode.



Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes they do. But now their cars are coming with a million miles battery warranty. I think that's enough.
I am not putting AMT in AT's class. Just meant that even an AMT is better than the manual one's.


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## omega44-xt (Jan 29, 2020)

billubakra said:


> Please list those other factors and enlighten us. And I have mentioned few others too besides engine capacity.


Within engine itself, type of fuel, type of combustion process (SI, CI or maybe HCCI in future), friction losses, how air-fuel is mixed, etc also do impact fuel economy other than capacity & cylinders. 2 petrol IC engines having 1.2L 4 cylinders won't have the same efficiency necessarily. 

Outside engine - transmission, aerodynamics, ambient temperature, tires & accessory load (on-board computer, AC, etc) are some other important factors other than weight which impact FE.

Like you can't get an idea of the performance of a CPU by looking just at its number of cores or image quality looking at MP of a camera sensor, similarly FE of a vehicle depends on a lot of factors.


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## omega44-xt (Jan 29, 2020)

billubakra said:


> Sorry I missed this earlier. Yes they do. But now their cars are coming with a million miles battery warranty. I think that's enough.
> I am not putting AMT in AT's class. Just meant that even an AMT is better than the manual one's.


No
Tesla batteries are maybe close to prove that they can last a million miles but warranty is still 8 years or 125k miles.
Vehicle Warranty

I agree that AMT is definitely more convenient than MT for high traffic situations, like cities.


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## Extreme Gamer (Jan 29, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Within engine itself, type of fuel, type of combustion process (SI, CI or maybe HCCI in future), friction losses, how air-fuel is mixed, etc also do impact fuel economy other than capacity & cylinders. 2 petrol IC engines having 1.2L 4 cylinders won't have the same efficiency necessarily.
> 
> Outside engine - transmission, aerodynamics, ambient temperature, tires & accessory load (on-board computer, AC, etc) are some other important factors other than weight which impact FE.
> 
> Like you can't get an idea of the performance of a CPU by looking just at its number of cores or image quality looking at MP of a camera sensor, similarly FE of a vehicle depends on a lot of factors.



Quality of road and traffic conditions also play a huge role in the real world fuel economy that you observe.


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## billubakra (Jan 30, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Within engine itself, type of fuel, type of combustion process (SI, CI or maybe HCCI in future), friction losses, how air-fuel is mixed, etc also do impact fuel economy other than capacity & cylinders. 2 petrol IC engines having 1.2L 4 cylinders won't have the same efficiency necessarily.
> 
> Outside engine - transmission, aerodynamics, ambient temperature, tires & accessory load (on-board computer, AC, etc) are some other important factors other than weight which impact FE.
> 
> Like you can't get an idea of the performance of a CPU by looking just at its number of cores or image quality looking at MP of a camera sensor, similarly FE of a vehicle depends on a lot of factors.



I have seen petrol engines shelling out more mileage because of the mode of drive. The other factors that you have mentioned does have an impact but again if the engine is good, including cc's+driving modes etc., more mileage can be gained.
Sure accessories etc. will impact the engine but whatever I have mentioned were about a car with everything stock.



anupam_pb said:


> No
> Tesla batteries are maybe close to prove that they can last a million miles but warranty is still 8 years or 125k miles.
> Vehicle Warranty
> 
> I agree that AMT is definitely more convenient than MT for high traffic situations, like cities.



Tesla Shows off Model 3 Drive Unit after One Million Miles of Driving
Cybertruck, Model 3 manufactured in China in MY 2020 will come with a million miles written warranty



Extreme Gamer said:


> Quality of road and traffic conditions also play a huge role in the real world fuel economy that you observe.


That's an external factor. Can't add in them to check the mileage.


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## omega44-xt (Jan 30, 2020)

billubakra said:


> I have seen petrol engines shelling out more mileage because of the mode of drive. The other factors that you have mentioned does have an impact but again if the engine is good, including cc's+driving modes etc., more mileage can be gained.
> Sure accessories etc. will impact the engine but whatever I have mentioned were about a car with everything stock.
> 
> 
> ...


Driving modes usually worsens throttle response, so not so rich A/F mixture to engine, hence higher mileage. It surely helps if implemented properly.

1 million mile warranty for the semi is understandable as that will run a lot. Still no word on 1M miles warranty on consumer vehicles. Its not a logical proposition for Tesla yet. Even the article you linked says nothing about consumer vehicles, just that they raised an internal target from 200k to 1M miles. 125k miles warranty is still pretty great, if they offer a higher number, good for consumers.


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## billubakra (Jan 30, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Driving modes usually worsens throttle response, so not so rich A/F mixture to engine, hence higher mileage. It surely helps if implemented properly.
> 
> 1 million mile warranty for the semi is understandable as that will run a lot. Still no word on 1M miles warranty on consumer vehicles. Its not a logical proposition for Tesla yet. Even the article you linked says nothing about consumer vehicles, just that they raised an internal target from 200k to 1M miles. 125k miles warranty is still pretty great, if they offer a higher number, good for consumers.



I personally find normal mode ok for normal and highway driving plus if you want a bit of an acceleration in any car. Sports mode is just another level.
I linked that article just to mention that they have tested a million miles warranty internally. Chinese MY 20 cars will have them. There are many guys on YT who have driven around 500k miles negligible loss in range.


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## omega44-xt (Jan 30, 2020)

billubakra said:


> I personally find normal mode ok for normal and highway driving plus if you want a bit of an acceleration in any car. Sports mode is just another level.
> I linked that article just to mention that they have tested a million miles warranty internally. Chinese MY 20 cars will have them. There are many guys on YT who have driven around 500k miles negligible loss in range.


Working for a million miles & covering that much are two different things. Tesla needs to make a lot of profit, its a publicly-traded company after all.

Let's see what they do.


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## billubakra (Jan 30, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Working for a million miles & covering that much are two different things. Tesla needs to make a lot of profit, its a publicly-traded company after all.
> Let's see what they do.



Yes. But from a consumer's pov there won't be any difference for the my 20 cars. Elon pocketed 2+bn usd in less than 48 hours. Tesla's now worth 100bn usd+ They were profitable in q3. And they will beat the shit out of every other company very soon. Their only main competition is the VW group. But VW without AP doesn't stand a chance.


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## billubakra (Jan 31, 2020)

This guy is at some other level
Elon Musk releases Don’t Doubt Ur Vibe music track on SoundCloud
$641 usd as of now. This share is the future.


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## topgear (Feb 8, 2020)

billubakra said:


> This guy is at some other level
> Elon Musk releases Don’t Doubt Ur Vibe music track on SoundCloud
> $641 usd as of now. This share is the future.



It touched almost $1k and then tumbled  .. thing is valuation is way ahead of it's earnings.


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## billubakra (Feb 8, 2020)

topgear said:


> It touched almost $1k and then tumbled  .. thing is valuation is way ahead of it's earnings.


Yeah around 740 now. Yesterday one guy predicted it to reach 5000 in the coming 10 years.
P.S. Lucid Motors might actually give a real competition to Tesla. Their AD is backed up by Mobileye - Wikipedia


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## omega44-xt (Feb 9, 2020)

billubakra said:


> Yeah around 740 now. Yesterday one guy predicted it to reach 5000 in the coming 10 years.
> P.S. Lucid Motors might actually give a real competition to Tesla. Their AD is backed up by Mobileye - Wikipedia


Time will tell. Faraday Future was once touted to be the next Tesla, but see where it is now.


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## billubakra (Feb 10, 2020)

anupam_pb said:


> Time will tell. Faraday Future was once touted to be the next Tesla, but see where it is now.


All future Tesla's had the same fate. Lucid might be the second and lower alternative to Tesla because it is started by their ex employees.


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