# Upgrading after 7 years.



## Renny (Feb 18, 2010)

So I'm a bit out of touch with the latest CPU's and Chipsets available,

My budget is between Rs.30,000-Rs.40,000,

I would like a Quad core CPU that supports DDR3,

Main use of this computer will be for Casual Gaming, LOTS of Audio and Video Encodeing(x264, Xvid, Divx etc.) , and Computer Aided Design(Xilinx, MATLAB, Solid Edge etc.),

I won't be able to upgrade for 2-3 years, so suggest a bit of a future-proof system.

OR

Should I wait for Hex Core CPU's or would that take a long time to arrive?


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## vickybat (Feb 18, 2010)

Hi buddy 

At your budget, an AMD based system offers more bang for buck and can be upgraded down the line.

Though intel's core i7 or i5 based configurations are more powerful and futureproof, they are expensive.

Anyway have a look:

Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz @ 5.1k
MSI 785GM-E51 @ 4.6k
Transcend 4GB DDR3 1333MHz C9 @ 4.4k
Cooler Master Elite 310 @ 1.5k
logitech keyboard mouse combo @ 0.7k
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB @ 2.4k
LG 22x DVD @ 1.1k
BenQ 22" G2220 FULL HD LCD Monitor @ 8k
Gigabyte 80 Plus Active PFC 460W @ 2.2k
MSI HD5750 1GB GDDR5 @ 8.2K

Total = 38k

This is the best for your budget and down the line you can upgrade amd's hexacore thuban cpu's when they are launched & will be compatible with am3 socket.


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## Cool G5 (Feb 18, 2010)

Get a good PSU over that Gigabyte. I suggest Seasonic s18 bronze 380W or Corsair VX450W.


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## Renny (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks for the feed backs,

How about AMD Phenom II x4 955 or instead of AMD Athlon X4, is the perfomence difference between them huge?

And how much is the MSI NF750-G55? Is it good? *Plus since hexcores are supported on AM3 I don't mind spending on a high end motherboard,*

And is 1600MHz RAM supported by the mainboard I've mentioned?

And a GPU at around 6K would be better.


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## coderunknown (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool G5 said:


> Get a good PSU over that Gigabyte. I suggest Seasonic s18 bronze 380W or Corsair VX450W.



+1. a good PSU wil make a future upgrade to better graphics or  higher rated system easy.

also get a better mobo like Asus M4A785TD-V EVO. its much better than the MSI E51 or other mobos priced at or around 6.5k.

---------- Post added at 07:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------




Xccentricity said:


> Thanks for the feed backs,
> 
> How about AMD Phenom II x4 955 or instead of AMD Athlon X4, is the perfomence difference between them huge?
> 
> ...



performance difference is good but at that price u'll get close to getting Core i5's which is much more powerful than X4 955.

if down the line you think of increasing the graphics power of your system by adding 1 more card in CrossFire X, u better look at something based on the 790GX or 790FX (costly). 

1600Mhz ram is supported by few motherboards but need you to OC the processor. but not all mobo successfully can accomplish it. many may say it support even 1800Mhz but in realty can't go beyond 1333Mhz even when OC'd.

@ ~6k, Sapphire HD5670 512MB GDDR5 @ 5.6k. but won't allow u turn much of eye candy on games at 22" monitor.


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## Renny (Feb 18, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> +1. a good PSU wil make a future upgrade to better graphics or  higher rated system easy.
> 
> also get a better mobo like Asus M4A785TD-V EVO. its much better than the MSI E51 or other mobos priced at or around 6.5k.
> 
> ...



This is getting a bit confusing,

On one hand if I go for a AM3 based mobo it will be future proof due to the fact that AMD's Hex Core CPU's are going to be AM3,

On the other hand Core i5 beats the Phenom II X4 but since Core i5 is not Socket 1366, I will not be able to use Intel's Hex core CPU's on LGA 1156 based mainboards,

I'm correct right?

Is the performance difference between Phenom II X4 955 BE and Core i5 negligible?

I'll be playing games like only Counter Strike, not games like GTA IV,

But is the GPU good for viewing HD content? And will this GPU make things look brilliant on this 22" monitor(except for latest games at high settings of course)?

And is MSI 790GX-G65 [HDMI] better than MSI NF750-G55?


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## vickybat (Feb 18, 2010)

The difference is significant and the i5 750 even draws less power so consider it over 955 or 965be.

The processor received best buy award from *tomshardware *which is a testament of the level of performance it offers and draws even less power.

Go for it eyes closed and if you want more performance then look at i7 920 for the x58 platform.


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## Cool G5 (Feb 18, 2010)

Stick with AMD for a better future upgradability. You won't get that if you go for an i5 rig.


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## vickybat (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool G5 said:


> Stick with AMD for a better future upgradability. You won't get that if you go for an i5 rig.




Sure amd has upgradability but at a pricepoint.You're reffering to those hexcores but who knows what intel has in store. They might dish out some lynnfield based hexacores as well so you can't say about futureproofing this early.

But presently i5 delivers more performance clock per clock than any amd phenom 2.


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## coderunknown (Feb 18, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> This is getting a bit confusing,
> 
> On one hand if I go for a AM3 based mobo it will be future proof due to the fact that AMD's Hex Core CPU's are going to be AM3,
> 
> ...



get AMD Phenom 955 coupled with Asus M4A785TD-V EVO. or something based on 790GX. get 4Gb DDR3 ram & a good PSU like Corsair VX450. then u can game very well on a 20" monitor. & also your future upgrade path is clear. u get i5, u'll end up paying more. future upgrade path bad (after all its Intel).


if you want gaming at 22" u'll have to OC the onboard graphics on the motherboard, which is a breeze on Asus boards. still gaming at 22" using IGP, its a bit tough.

wat u have to say now?


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## vickybat (Feb 18, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> get AMD Phenom 955 coupled with Asus M4A785TD-V EVO. or something based on 790GX. get 4Gb DDR3 ram & a good PSU like Corsair VX450. then u can game very well on a 20" monitor. & also your future upgrade path is clear. u get i5, u'll end up paying more. future upgrade path bad (after all its Intel).
> 
> 
> if you want gaming at 22" u'll have to OC the onboard graphics on the motherboard, which is a breeze on Asus boards. still gaming at 22" using IGP, its a bit tough.
> ...




No matter how much dough you add no rig can last for seven years without getting its arse whooped by its competitors.

Who told you that intel path of upgrading is questionable?

I know you're refering to thuban hexcores but amd got desperate by seeing the mighty performance of the i7's and i5's so it had to unveil them.
When time comes intel too will unveil something but its not desperate as its competitor.

@ Xccentricity

Buddy ditch the idea of going for a phenom 2 x4.The reviews speak for themselves so invest your money on a i5 or i7 based rig if you can go for it.

They simply offer more performance than any current AMD.


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## coderunknown (Feb 18, 2010)

vickybat said:


> No matter how much dough you add no rig can last for seven years without getting its arse whooped by its competitors.
> 
> Who told you that intel path of upgrading is questionable?
> 
> ...



true, no rig can last 7yrs. hack, 5yrs looks impossible. but also intel always have brought out new platform for every new product release & with almost none been backward compatible. X58 is 1 platform which i sure wil be futureproof. bt P55, lots of doubt.

well let OP decide which way he decides to go AMD or Intel.


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## Renny (Feb 19, 2010)

Ok,

I'll mostly go in for the AMD counterpart mainly because Core i5 is a bit expensive and the upgradability factor of Socket 1156,

One last thing, how good is this mainboard, MSI 790GX-G65 [HDMI], I need bit of a future proof board mainly, Which would be the best one for around 8-9K,

Whats the difference between 790GX and 790FX?

And would a Nvidia 750i or 980i chipset be better than AMD's 790 Chipset?


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## coderunknown (Feb 19, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> Ok,
> 
> I'll mostly go in for the AMD counterpart mainly because Core i5 is a bit expensive and the upgradability factor of Socket 1156,
> 
> ...



its full ATX with crossfire compatibility. 

790GX have onboard graphics. i wil call best onboard graphics. & its dual Pcie X 16 runs at X8+X8 when both are filled. 790FX have no onboard graphics. & its Pcie X 16 slots run at X16+X16 or X8+X8+X8+X8 i.e. 4 graphics card same time if enough slots available.

750i is old. too old. & not AM3. not sure about 980i though.


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## sam9s (Feb 19, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> So I'm a bit out of touch with the latest CPU's and Chipsets available,
> 
> My budget is between Rs.30,000-Rs.40,000,
> 
> ...



I have not read the entire thread just replying reading your query and the point that you would be using the system for A/V encoading and CAD. Reason.... even I am also a lot in to A/V encoading and DVD authorizing, desigining and all. Just pure hobbie and nothing else. I love to work on 3D Studio max and Photoshop and do all my DV capturing on my PC and then create fully customizable DVDs with menus music etc. With the experience on the confirurations I have delt with I would like to chip in few of my suggestions.

*1. Processor ::* Since you would be using it for encoading n CAD its VERY important to get a fast, good processor with load of cache that has a better architcure. I would suggest Core i7 code name Bloomefield. That is top of the line proc for Nehalams architecture. I would suggest you to refrain from AMD Phenome and Core i5 (Lynfield) all together. simply because of the few facts.. (these facts might not be of any use to a casual user or even a heavy gamer BUT makes a difference who would be in to some heavy A/V encoading and CAD)

*a*. i7 has integrated triple-channel DDR3 memory controller as against to i5 which has conventional two
*b*. i7 has 4 cores+hyperthreading. i5 does not have Hyperthreading (has 4 cores though)
*c*. i7 has QPI and on die mem controller meaning any PCIe intensive application (like any rendering programm or CAD as well) would be benifitted

apart from this the basic architecture or i7 is far ahead than Phenome. Below is Just a benckmark for video encoading done with different processors. See and decide.

*i50.tinypic.com/11vthxe.jpg *i45.tinypic.com/j14z8z.jpg

*i48.tinypic.com/11bro7p.jpg


You might wonder that the above results have difference in just seconds, but that is just for one small file of 100Mb, things start to make a difference when you are encoading a full HD 40GB Blue Ray rip or even an 8 GB Dual DVD rip to x264 MKV, along with running multiple application at the background. You system will just give up then if you do not have the power and memory to handle it.


*2. RAM ::* Believe and do believe, get loads of ram and if possible fastest ram, but if you gotta chose get quantity over speed. Get 6 GB min 8 if possible. Heavy video encoading takes processing power and Heavy video rendering or CAD takes memory, so both of these should be in abdundence. Corsair is the obvious choise.

*3.Hard Disk ::* In all means try to get a 15K RPM HDD with 32 MB buffer, it DOES makes a difference. Also again if possible configure it in RAID 0. (though not a necessity but makes a small difference)

*4. Display Card ::* Even though you might not be gaming, GFX playes a vital role in atleast Rendering and Ray tracing. Atleast one from HD48XX series

Finally get a quality Mother board to get all this together....something in the lines of *ASUS P6T *based on Intel X58 chipset.

Few final tips.........people sometime have the Hardware but not the required soiftware to do the job, in that case the performance suffers and people wonder whats wrong..... even though they have a high quality hardware. Point is............ make sure the software part is also delt accordingly.

*a.* Your OS should be 64Bit.......Win 7 recomended NOT Vista in no case
*b.* Get a 16GB pendrive and use it with *Win 7 ReadyBoost technology*.........its a handy feature that does improves the multitasking performance 
*c.* The applications you use should also be (if possible) natively 64bit. For example Vitrual Dub is a very common application to do video encoading. they have a 64bit version, make sure you get that one. (if you use virtual dub) 
*d.* The codecs you would use also should be 64 bit (again if possible)


The final product will kick ass on any audio/video encoading stuff along with your CAD

I hope I was able to chip in few respectable suggestions...

Regards
Sammy


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## asingh (Feb 19, 2010)

^^
Sam, first things first. Really nice post. One of the best I have read in many years. 

Stuff you have suggested is really good with sound logic. But I think it will be difficult to fit within the budget of 40K. Just the i7 is like 14K. I think the cheapest motherboard would be 12K. Also since he will use CAD software he might need a discrete GPU. 

*Xcentricy:* Possible for you to raise the budget.


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## sam9s (Feb 19, 2010)

asigh said:


> ^^
> Sam, first things first. Really nice post. One of the best I have read in many years.
> 
> Stuff you have suggested is really good with sound logic. But I think it will be difficult to fit within the budget of 40K. Just the i7 is like 14K. I think the cheapest motherboard would be 12K. Also since he will use CAD software he might need a discrete GPU.
> ...



Thanks asigh, and well said as well. I do agree the suggestions I made are puerly on the getting a practical performance oriented system. If you ask me there can be a Budget Gaming PC but AFA video encoading or CAD goes, no such thing exists, coz if you tone down the essential pieces you would land up with a pathatic performer, that in all mean would defeat the purpose of Audio/Video encoading. In easier terms it means what good a PC is if it takes 5 hrs to encoade a complete movie or 30 minutes to render a 5 minute clip in CAD and on the top you can not do anything else at the sam time. So my suggestion is............if one do decides to built a system specifically for A/V encoading, rendering, CAD stuff etc, there has to be decent budget for it
To conclode......
A gaming PC is far easier to built with a budget than a PC used for A/V encoading, editing rendering etc. These things are the most taxing stuff......, that is through my personal experience.  

About the price...... I am not very updated with the prices, but is 14K the lowest i7, coz when I say i7 what I mean is *Bloomfield* and I think (correct me if I am wrong) we have a lesser value i7 as well. My suggestion is to get a Bloomfield, any varient. All bloomfields have similar architecture, its just the clock speed that varies which the OP can any time OC.

Yes Motherboard is something I would not suggest to compromise. Mobo is the mother (as is the name) of your PC. Even if you have a top of the line equipment and is not connected with an equal powerfull BUS, you would not be harnessing the true potential of your heavy equipment.
When I bought my mobo ASUS P5B Delux it was at a stagerring 15K price point, but I still went for it and even after 3,4 years its the mobo that is still standing tall without the need of an upgrade (except the firmware ofcourse). Everything else has been upgraded. So you see........

To the OP I would suggest to seriousy re considering the budget, if possible wait, save collect and then go for it rather than getting a lower performer.....

Regards
Sammy


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## asingh (Feb 19, 2010)

Well here is the line up of the existent Bloomfields. 
*img7.imageshack.us/img7/7035/bloomfield.jpg

And the cheapest one there is the i7 920 / 2.66 Ghz @ 14145. Mother board would not be less than 12K.


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## Cool G5 (Feb 19, 2010)

Nothing is going to last even for 5 years. If OP needs future-proofing, go for an i7 rig with eyes closed. Intel has made a big mess with their socket types. AMD on other hand is doing great in terms of value for money. Not to mention, the Black Edition proccies overclock very good. The money saved can be invested in faster RAM alongwith a good graphic card.


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## sam9s (Feb 19, 2010)

asigh said:


> And the cheapest one there is the i7 920 / 2.66 Ghz @ 14145. Mother board would not be less than 12K.



mmmm well it would definitely be worth an investment.......and future proof too...atleast near future proof.


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## Renny (Feb 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your help,

Unfortunately I cannot increase my budget as I'm a bit short of money now, even spending this 40K is tough for me at this stage  ,

So I have no choice but to go for AMD, at least hoping their future AM3 hex cores performs pretty well,

And looking at this page I found the performance difference in Encoding between Core i5 and Phenom II a little negligible,

Check it out:- 
*www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=12

*www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=13

*www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=16

But the CPU bench-marked here Phenom II X4 965, Is there any performance difference at all between the 965 and 955 models?

And the 955 model is also Black Edition?


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## asingh (Feb 19, 2010)

Go for AMD. You cannot go wrong, for the money. By the way..guys...will the new CPU dock to the existent AM3+ socket..?


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## sam9s (Feb 19, 2010)

If you have to go for AMD................ Phenom II X4 965 would be your best bet. Try to impliment the rest if you still wanna save the day...

---------- Post added at 10:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------




asigh said:


> ..guys...will the new CPU dock to the existent AM3+ socket..?



I find no reason they should'nt.......the new Phenom II are socket AM3 compliant....


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## Renny (Feb 19, 2010)

I've zeroed in on this configuration, should purchase it by next Sunday,

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition (AM3 Socket)
MSI 790GX-G65 (With ATI 3300 IGP)
Transcend 4GB DDR3 1333MHz C9
Western Digital 500GB HDD
LG 22x DVD Writer
BenQ 22" G2220 FULL HD LCD Monitor
MSI HD5750 1GB GDDR5

Lastly:-

1. I'll need a good SMPS as I will be adding an additional HDD, DVD Writer, Fans later in addition to the above configuration,
How about Tagan Stone Rock TG500-U37 500 Watt?

2. As this system will be on for 5-6 hours at a stretch suggest a roomy and airy Cabinet within 2.5K,

3. Finally is the Mainboard I've suggested good, does it have any issues, and does it suffer from overheating of N.Bridge or S.Bridge as the PC will be on for 5-6 hours,

4. Is the performance difference between X4 955 and X4 965 huge?


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## sam9s (Feb 19, 2010)

R u even listining....... I give up!!!!


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## Renny (Feb 20, 2010)

^Have you even read my above post?FYI It has some queries on what SMPS and Cabby to buy, and if the MB I suggested was good,

And implement the rest to save the day?

What is it exactly that you are trying to convey?


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## asingh (Feb 20, 2010)

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition..?
Why..?


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## Renny (Feb 20, 2010)

^Why? anything wrong with it?

I didn't observe much of a perfomance difference between 955BE and 965BE.


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## sam9s (Feb 20, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> ^Have you even read my above post?FYI It has some queries on what SMPS and Cabby to buy, and if the MB I suggested was good,
> 
> And implement the rest to save the day?
> 
> What is it exactly that you are trying to convey?



forget it.....my bad.....

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 AM ----------




asigh said:


> Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition..?
> Why..?




******Off topic******
asign I just noticed that you have a pretty decent rig except the HDD, just 260GB.....why??? .... not thinking to upgrade it to atleast 500GB..

******************


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## asingh (Feb 20, 2010)

^^
Yes, I know. I need to get a 1 TB platter more. Am running out of space too. As of now, I do not have enough space to install any shooter. Sure. Thank. 

By the way, how is the HD5850 doing with that CPU. Is it not being held back..? What type of FPS you get on that HUGE screen...?


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## coderunknown (Feb 20, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> ^Why? anything wrong with it?
> 
> I didn't observe much of a perfomance difference between 955BE and 965BE.



yes performance between 955 & 965 is not much. i suggest u invest the saved money in a good cooler & OC it to 3.5Ghz which i'll surely go at stock Vcore. maybe 3.8Ghz if you upp the Vcore a bit.

the board you choose is a pretty good one. go for it. & if possible get the WD Black series HDD, wil help.

PSU is VX450W should handle tour system is a good way.


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## Renny (Feb 20, 2010)

^Thanks,

I'm currently living in Bangalore, can anyone suggest a good and reputable Hardware Vendor in SP Road.


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## sam9s (Feb 21, 2010)

asigh said:


> ^^
> Yes, I know. I need to get a 1 TB platter more. Am running out of space too. As of now, I do not have enough space to install any shooter. Sure. Thank.
> 
> By the way, how is the HD5850 doing with that CPU. Is it not being held back..? What type of FPS you get on that HUGE screen...?



Most of todays gen games are HUGELY GPU dependent (contratry to people's belief) and 6300 is no meow. Its just that technology along with becoming cheaper is moving so fast that is makes people have this convection that obsolete is wortless, when trust me in general scenario (for which most of us do buy a PC) there is hardly any difference even betweent i7 or C2D. 90% of us use a PC for Surfing, MS Office, Music, Movies and casual gaming. Do you need an i7 for that ...???? the exceptions would be people in to some heavy encoading/decoading, CAD, Video editing, who need a powerhouse.(and some still choose to go for a looser) Anyway....Gaming is no different........ most of the games infact almost all are purly GPU dependent. My other rig used by my bro has a 4850 with a simple AMD athalon X2 and he still plays all todays gen games with all setting set to high at 1440x900 res.
I get decent 70-80+fps in most of the games@1980x1080 with full AA and AF. Some heavy taxing games give me 50 which is anyhow supersmooth. Anygame that is givings avg fps >40 is supersmooth.
The only games that are CPU dependent are true simulators that too flight Simulators. More the simulator is real more taxing is it on CPU. 

Regards
Sammy


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## Renny (Feb 21, 2010)

*i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/LaLocaDivine/smileys/732g1f7.gif


Anyway just bought my rig  :-

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition
MSI 790GX-G65
Transcend 4GB DDR3 1333MHz
Western Digital 500GB HDD
LG 22x DVD Writer
BenQ 22" G2220
MSI HD5670 1GB
Corsair VX450
Cooler Master Elite 330

Was able to increase the speed to 3.6GHz at Stock voltage and cooler,

Thanks again  ,

Mods can close the thread.


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## coderunknown (Feb 21, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> *i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/LaLocaDivine/smileys/732g1f7.gif
> 
> 
> Anyway just bought my rig  :-
> ...



congrats buddy. but u should have got the 512Mb version of HD5670. i must say, good upgradeable PC. anyway how much it cost?


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## Renny (Feb 21, 2010)

^ Thanks buddy , why do you say the 512MB version is better?

The price came up to 44050 without taxes, even bought a 50 DVD Spindle of Sony DVDs, now have to repay that 5K extra with interest to my friend  .


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## coderunknown (Feb 21, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> ^ Thanks buddy , why do you say the 512MB version is better?
> 
> The price came up to 44050 without taxes, even bought a 50 DVD Spindle of Sony DVDs, now have to repay that 5K extra with interest to my friend  .



512Mb version costs less & HD5670 can't fully use 1Gb GDDR5 memory. 512Mb wil better work. still you got X4 955 so maybe 1Gb is a better decision. 44k? WOOOO, nice price for a good powerful rig


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## Cool G5 (Feb 21, 2010)

Congrats 
Nice rig.


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## Renny (Feb 22, 2010)

^Thanks buddy  .


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## pulsar_swift (Feb 22, 2010)

Xccentricity said:


> *i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/LaLocaDivine/smileys/732g1f7.gif
> 
> 
> Anyway just bought my rig  :-
> ...



Could you share the prices of the above items ?


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## asingh (Feb 22, 2010)

Now OC that BE.


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## coderunknown (Feb 22, 2010)

^^ don't u think something important missing? OEM HSF.


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