# suggest a graphics card for 15k to 18k



## harsh bajpai (Oct 31, 2005)

please suggest a PCIe graphics card for 15k, at the most 18k. 

 my system config is

Intel pentium4 3 Ghz (LGA 775)
Intel 915 GAV board.
512 mb RAM
400watt SMPS
Seagate 80GB SATA
lg 17" flat CRT monitor


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## satanlives (Oct 31, 2005)

id say got for the x800gt0 wich is for around 12k something and it can be modded to x850..so thts an awesme card..... or the x800xl or something can be in that range


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## gxsaurav (Oct 31, 2005)

Since your budget is 15K, I would suggest that stay away from ATI X800 series & get a GeForce 6800 non ultra with 256 MB RAM, NV41 core based, this is the best & coolest temprature gfx card available in that budget range, also U will get Purevideo


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## blade_runner (Oct 31, 2005)

^^HUh ? ! Gx are you suggesting a crappy 6800NU over a x800 gto2 ? Do you know the x800gto2 uses r480 core and can be easily turned into a x850xt with all 16 working pipelines and way faster than a 6800NU. Plus the price is under 15k afaik. And yeah all sapphire x800gto2 are 110% moddable to x850xt.


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## godzi_85 (Oct 31, 2005)

is the 915 an agp board? 
if yes then i think you can go  for the 6800gt too. last i had heard was it was priced for around 18k! .. leadtek was the brand if i remember correctly..


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## harsh bajpai (Oct 31, 2005)

@satanlives
thanx for your suggestion.

@gxsaurav
ok,  how much does the geforce 6800ultra would cost ?
and how much is the non ultra?

@blade_runner
is the x800gto 2 better than 6800 ultra also?


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## gxsaurav (Oct 31, 2005)

blade

The 6800nU is only 10 to 15% slower then X800 GTO, which is not widely available here in India, but U R forgetting that 6800nU supports Shader Model 3.0 while X800 doesn't, beat that

last I found, Gigabyte 6800non ultra with 128 MB RAM was Rs 17k, a few onths ago, but i won't recomend this gigabyte card as it comes with a Heatpipe based passive cooling which without a proper cabinet will become really hot

insted I prefer a MSI 6800nU, however i don't know it's cost

& for more info, games which support SM 3.0

Far Cry
Battle field 2
CoD 2
Doom 3
Quake 4
Half life 2 & Lost coast
Splinter cell: chaos theory
F.E.A.R

and every upcoming game out there,so I don't think buying a ATI X800 GTO is a good choice anymore


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## Keith Sebastian (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm not sure if a X800GT is available for <18,ooo INR. Couple of months back I saw a X800XL 256Mb on eBay India within that price bracket.

Keith


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## blade_runner (Oct 31, 2005)

gxsaurav said:
			
		

> blade
> 
> The 6800nU is only 10 to 15% slower then X800 GTO, which is not widely available here in India, but U R forgetting that 6800nU supports Shader Model 3.0 while X800 doesn't, beat that
> 
> ...


SM 3.0 my ass ! All games will have a fallback path to do things in sm 2.0 or sm 1.1 and sm 2.0b as well. Only a small percentage of the population would be really having cards that can *really* do sm 3.0 without sweating. I thought u would be well aware that SM 3.0 wasnt really useable in the 6 series cards and since 7 series cards are way out of his budget and he needs a card right now the x800gto2 is the best deal right now imho.  So sm 3.0 on 6 series hardware is really a moot point, though i full idea you would resort to that to support you advice . Also Gx really when you are getting a card like x850xt why would any really bother abt unusable feature on a card that is nearly half as slow. Think about it. 

btw sm 3.0 is a subset of directx api as i know not opengl, pray why have you listed quake 4 and doom 3 there ? Also half life 2 doesn't support sm 3.0 only 2.0b. 

@harish: After modding the x800gto2, its faster than the 6800U in most games. Btw this is limited Sapphire only part and is selling like hot cakes all over the world. So you might want to check up on availability with mediatech and sapphire. 

@Keith: We are talking abt the x800gto2 , the x800gt is/was available for 13k not so long back. x800gt is a direct competition to the 6600GT.


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## gxsaurav (Oct 31, 2005)

who told u HL2 doesn't support SM3.0

Well, i would like to ask anyone here

a gfx card which supports SM3.0 & gives 90% perormance, or GFX card which supports 100% performance but SM2.0

keep in mind, SM2.0 is old now, all the new games support SM3.0 one way or other

also, the ATI X800GTO is hard to find, but 6800nu gfx cards from XFX, ASUS, MSI are easy to find

well, i gave u my recomendation, U can also cgeck everywhere on the net, or even ask on anandtech or neowin, what do they suggest


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## blade_runner (Oct 31, 2005)

gxsaurav said:
			
		

> who told u HL2 doesn't support SM3.0
> 
> Well, i would like to ask anyone here
> 
> ...


Umm please read up on the Hl2 renderer cause sm 2.0 is what it supports. 
And your analogy isnt quite right ! 6800NU is like half the performance of the x850xt. Sheesh i thought you would know that atleast. 

As for the hl2 argument, chk this wiki from valve 
*developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Engine_Features

I doubt anyone would suggest a 6800NU over a x850xt


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## funkymonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

well exactly.
In most cases even 6600GT will spank 6800NU.
the 6800NU PCI express is the worst choice if you are planning to buy the PCI express card. Rather you get 6600GT. It sounds strange but in many cases it will perform better than 6800NU. And remeber PCI express 6800NU cannot be softmoded to unlock pipes.
But X800GTO2 from sapphire is cracker. X800GTO2 is faster even without any modding compared to 6800NU.
6800NU simply does not have horsepower to call it future proof or powerful card. Its not.
Even in SM3.0 games you will find X800GTO2 faster than 6800NU in most cases and after unlocking it it will leave 6800NU or any other card in that price range to dust.
Iorny of nvidia cards in india is that there is no card in 15-18K range when it comes to PCI express bus.
If you cant find Sapphire X800GTO2 then the best choice will be X800XL.


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## geekysage (Nov 1, 2005)

@blade_runner: completely agree w/ your points about x800gto2.

@gxsaurav: buddy, you do have some points but you have a lot of catching up to do. sapphire x800gto2 can really be unlocked to a 16 pipelines x850xt and geforce 6600gt/6800ultra don't stand a chance when put against it!

Aight, here is the link if anybody still has doubts about this issue. *www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/vidcard/127/1

Now, gxsaurav does have a point when he talks about x800gto/gto2 availability. I was gonna buy a sapphire x800gto2 myself but they simply disappeared from the US market in about a week after their launch. Some online merchants who do have them, are selling them for an exorbitant price soon after the news about the cards getting unlocked to a x850xt spread over the internet. The card was initially being sold for around $215 but now you ain't gonna get it for anything less than $260 making it outta my budget. Anyway, Connect3D x800gto cards are also successfully getting unlocked to 16 pipelines and even though they have the r420/423 core, they are performing pretty close to x800gto2. When you put the price in picture, connect3d x800gto are the best bang for the buck. I got mine for $187. Anyway, what i am trying to say is that if the availability is so messed up here, i don't even wanna think about its availability/price in India.


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## asdf1223 (Nov 1, 2005)

the x800gto2 while defenitely beating the 6800nu is not available here.only the 12 pipeline x800gto is available for around 14k.an x800xl and 6800gt should be available around the 18-20k price band depending on brand.happy hunting.


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 1, 2005)

thanx for all your time guys but could anyone please tell me the price for 6800ultra.


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## avi_avadhut (Nov 1, 2005)

> @gxsaurav: buddy, you do have some points but you have a lot of catching up to do. sapphire x800gto2 can really be unlocked to a 16 pipelines x850xt and geforce 6600gt/6800ultra don't stand a chance when put against it!




Strange -  something addition in my knowledge - moded x800fto2 to 850xt is faster than 6800ultra????????

dude no way that even pure 850XT can be faster than 6800ultra....


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 1, 2005)

@avi_avdhut
i think you've misread, the ati card is said to have better performance than 6800 nu(non ultra...)

once again can anyone tell me tha present preci of 6800ultra card?


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 1, 2005)

oops a typo there i meant the 'price'


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## mohit (Nov 1, 2005)

guys why the hell is the x800xl more expensive than the x800gto2 then ??? and does x800gto 2 support cross fire ??  and who stocks the x800gto2 in india ?? i doubt sapphire is available anywhere ..

@harsh bajpai
go for the x800gto2 sapphire if available in india else look for a 6800 gt.


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 1, 2005)

@mohit
6800 ultra's recent price??????????????????????????????


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## mohit (Nov 1, 2005)

@ harsh
avdhut dint misread ... u misread it. and i dont have the latest pricing of the 6800 ultra / gt cards but ill get it n post it soon.


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## supersaiyan (Nov 1, 2005)

guys right now the x800gto2 is the best in the price range. forget the sm3.0 and all that jazz. the cards which are below 6600ultra aren't able to handle the fps when these features are turned on. the 6800gt and above are the only ones that can handle it. plus there aren't many games which have sm3.0. newayz do ne of u guys know a sapphire dealer in delhi. btw mediatech is a connect 3d dealer.


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## Crazy_Eddy (Nov 1, 2005)

avi_avadhut said:
			
		

> Strange -  something addition in my knowledge - moded x800fto2 to 850xt is faster than 6800ultra????????
> 
> dude no way that even pure 850XT can be faster than 6800ultra....


Wow, something added to my knowledge as well!   
As per *single* cards, the X850XT is down and out faster than the 6800Ultra in most games except Doom3 ! Its only in SLI that the 6800 Ultra had the upper hand. Needless to say, with Crossfire available now, Ati has again got the upper hand.

Here's an article to read: *www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk3LDEx
I'm quoting from the article: "Make no bones about it, the X850XT-PE can easily best the NVIDIA 6800Ultra in many of todayâ€™s latest 3D gaming titles"



			
				mohit said:
			
		

> guys why the hell is the x800xl more expensive than the x800gto2 then ??? and does x800gto 2 support cross fire ?? and who stocks the x800gto2 in india ?? i doubt sapphire is available anywhere ..


Because the x800XL has 16 pixel pipelines by default. Whereas the X800GTO2 has 12 pixel pipelines, the remaining 4 need to be unlocked. Its similar to knowing an A64 3000+ can run as a 3200+ , but still selling it as a 3000+ and pricing it the same.
And according to ATi , all X800 / X850 cards support CrossFire


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## geekysage (Nov 1, 2005)

avi_avadhut said:
			
		

> Strange -  something addition in my knowledge - moded x800fto2 to 850xt is faster than 6800ultra????????
> 
> dude no way that even pure 850XT can be faster than 6800ultra....


*www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njk3LDEx

...read the bottomline.
also, this head to head comparison: *www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/r480-tr.html

hope that clears it up.

@harsh: *search.ebay.in//search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=6800+ultra
and next time, try www.ebay.in before you ask in a forum, will save you a lot of time. 

Peace.

edit: oops, missed crazy eddy's link...anyway, it's always good to have another testimony


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 2, 2005)

@geekysage
try getting a device's price from it's disributor personally and then compare that price with that of www.ebay.in then you will see why i posted my query in the forum.


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## TechHead (Nov 4, 2005)

Where are you going to get an X800GTO2 in India?


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 4, 2005)

@techHead
no idea pal!! i'm not very much interested in X800GTO2, rather i don't thing getting it would be easy here. 

now i'm in a different dilemma !!  to buy a 'BIG' 6800gt card or a 'leadtek'?  
(are 'BIG' cards any good? any users??? please share your experiences...) 

furthermore in a post by 'mohit' in the hardware prices sticky he posted the price fo BIG 7800gt as 22500 + TAXES.. as i've extended my budget a little now i've to make a choice between a BIG 7800GT or a leadek 6800ultra  
PLEASE HELP !!!

P.S.- anyone has latest prices of leadtek graphics cards please post them in the sticky or mail them to me at harshbajpai@msn.com


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## gxsaurav (Nov 7, 2005)

the chip is same, it's only the brand name & software bundle which makes then different

man, if U can get a 7800GT, PCI-E then go for it, it's the bliss, even supports OpenGL 2.0, & is recomended for UT2007 like games, which are 2 years away, this card will work for a long time


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 7, 2005)

@gx
the only reason i'm spending so much money is that it will be more futureproof than other mid range cards like 6600GT, X800XL etc.
including taxes the BIG 7800GT will cost around 24.5k and the leadtek is 27k including all taxes and since i feel more comfortable buying leadtek i'm going for the leadtek WinFast PX7800 GT TDH MyVIVO Extreme. 
(check it out on www.leadtek.com/graphic.html )
man; i can't wait..


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## Aniruddh (Nov 8, 2005)

@harsh dats a gr8 decision pal eva i m thinking of buying a leadtek 7800gt card  .


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## dIgItaL_BrAt (Nov 8, 2005)

i agree with the other guys,the leadtek 7800gt is a futureproof investment & a screamer in the performance department.


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 8, 2005)

@digital brat, aniruddh
thanx guys


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## gxsaurav (Nov 8, 2005)

cool, another 7 series user among us, worry not it won't be a bad desicion, & don't forget to add a good power supply


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## harsh bajpai (Nov 8, 2005)

@Gx 
that was another concern as i currently have a SMPS of    
iBall (400 watts). i'll use it and if proves insufficient i'll buy a better one but i will try my luck with i first. it's better than spending 3-4k just on the possibility that it might not work.


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## gxsaurav (Nov 8, 2005)

hmm, where r u from, the Powersafe 500W SMPS might be available there, if not then order one, thats the best one i can recomend, another option is colorsit M400U model,with 2 fans


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## AcceleratorX (Nov 9, 2005)

OK I'll clear up some confusion.

ATI recently launched the X800GT series, and to counter that, NVIDIA launched the GeForce 6800XT (Google it).

As far as raw performance goes, no - a GeForce 6600GT can spank the 6800LE, but not the 6800NU, because 6800NU has 12 pixel pipelines whereas 6600GT has 8.

Also, A nice little google search on SM 3.0 will reveal a lot of things.

SM 3.0 increases performance on GeForce 6 and GeForce 7 (even then, SM 2.0a seems better for GeForce 6. Either case, SM 3.0 and 2.0a have good speed boosts over vanilla 2.0).

On the other hand, ATI's X800 has SM 2.0b, which also increases performance, but ATI's OpenGL drivers still have a lot of work to be done.

So, as of right now, the better choice would be NVIDIA IMO, but ATI is not far behind. But in OpenGL, ATI really needs to improve!

In the grand scheme of shader models:

1)Register Combiners - Preliminary per-pixel lighting and bump mapping. This was supported on GeForce1, GeForce2 and GeForce4 MX

2)SM 1.0 (first shader model, never made it to DX8). This was a feature of the first Radeon, but since DX8 did not use this model, these features ended up unusable for the most part.

3)SM 1.1 (DirectX 8.0 specification) - Used in GeForce3

4)SM 1.3 (DirectX 8.1) - GeForce4 Ti

5)SM 1.4 (DirectX 8.1) - Radeon 8500+

6)SM 2.0 (DirectX 9) - Radeon 9700

7)SM 2.0b (DirectX 9.0c) - Radeon X800. This SM was created to support the new features in the Pixel Shader of the X800.

8)SM 2.0a (DirectX 9.0b) - GeForce FX. This Shader model was created to help the FX cards perform better in DX9 games. Using SM 2.0a instead of plain 2.0 can provide a minimum performance increase of 20%.

9)SM 3.0 (DX 9.0c) - GeForce 6800. No comments


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## Ringwraith (Nov 9, 2005)

so much for clearing the confusion 
inconsistencies in the above post:
i) the new card is 6800GS ( not 6800XT)
ii) 6600GT performs at par wtih 6800NU in *pure speed* modes, in eye candy modes however 6800NU does take a lead.
iii) the new catalyst drivers increase openGL performance around 20% for the latest ATI cards, bringing in on par with nV hardware (almost!)


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## AcceleratorX (Nov 9, 2005)

Well, yeah I heard about the new ATI drivers......and they're good - but the real reason the GeForce cards have the lead in OpenGL is because OpenGL developers use NVIDIA-specific extensions wherever possible, while ATI has not so many extensions as NVIDIA does in OpenGL (this means NVIDIA may still maintain a slight lead in OpenGL for a long time).

DirectX is a different thing, where both companies are on par with each other......

About 6800XT, my mistake. Seems XT is only an OEM card and not for retail.

I guess the main reason why 6600GT performs equal to 6800NU at pure speed modes is the clock speed???


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## Ringwraith (Nov 9, 2005)

peak fill rate (6600GT) 8*500 = 4000 *> *12 * 325 = 3900 (6800NU) 
the main problem with 6600GT is the memory bandwidth available ( FSAA needs large memory bandwidths)
In AA/AF modes, the 128 bit memory bus of the 6600GT severely affects performance, the 256 bit bus of the 6800NU helps it here, if somehow nV cud run the memory of the 6600GT@ 1400 mhz, it would perform similar to the 700mhz 6800NU


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