# The ultimate shootout: Apple Mac OS X vs. Microsoft Windows Vista



## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Tighten your seatbelts. This is going to be an ugly ride.

A quote from this thread:





			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> OK, I'd thought I would just ignore this thread because everyone knows how baised the unbaised reviewers in this thread are. But apparently, the other users on this forum are just as stupid as the initiators of this thread.
> 
> You guys are acting like you are out here genuinely pointing out the pros and cons of the operating system. Well, I see none of the hundreds of things that Mac OS X does a lot better than Windows or that Windows does not do at all in this thread.
> 
> ...


So, let's see what we have here...


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

lolz...this thread will go empty. Enough of flame wars,  I don't wanna get banned again...so I will prefer pointing out pros & cons in Mac in that thread


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

You are flaming in that thread anyway. It is better to do it here because at least it is allowed here (for the most part).


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## iMav (May 16, 2007)

whats the point of this thread everything which we say is incorrect u will just reply this is crap that is crap whats the point


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

No, I will give you solutions and point out the features that you think do not exist.

Of course, if you post crap, I will have to say that it is crap (like gx_saurav keeps saying that you have to re-install Mac OS X every now and then).

OK. So this is the list of "flaws" in Mac OS X, and the myth-busting:



> 2. As in windows If u right click on a file and select another application to open it and select it to be set as default same is not the case in MAC ... here if u choose another application for a file it will be only for that file and not the file type


Select a file and hit 'Command + I', or right click on it and select 'Get Info'. There is a heading (written in simple English) that says "Open with:". Choose the application you want the file to open with from the drop down menu and then hit the 'Change All...' button. All the files having that particular extension will now open with that applications.
This is what Windows can also do. But you can do a lot more in Mac OS X:
1. Change the icon of the file and even put a picture in any format as the icon. So, for example, you can make the poster of a movie the icon for the ripped DVD movie you have.
2. Set that particular file to open with some particular application but all other files with that extension will remain unchanged.
3. Mark the file with some colour.
4. Watch video files in the preview pane.



> 3. If u load ntfs drives they are loaded as connected servers (im still unable to make them writtable)


Oh. Bad Mac OS X.
But wait. You cannot even read HFS partitions in Windows.
OK. Bad Windows, good Mac OS X.



> 4. Dashboard & Expose are useful .... however at times i would say a sidebar for gadgets is better coz then i dont need to load another 'desktop' for accessing my gadgets


Drag a widget onto the dashboard but don't drop it. Hit F12 and the widget will stay on top of the desktop. This functionality is pretty limited right now though.
But in Windows, you have no option to have a separate layer for your widgets... uh, gadgets. And that is obviously the better way to do things.



> 6. it also has a similar to aero effect ... ur menus are transparet


...



> 1) There is no Full Window concept. When you try to maximize a Windows it zooms to the size of content in it. This results in you having a lot of Windows on screen. Technically speaking this increases the load on Video frame buffer or Video memory. Mac UI is palate based, like in Photoshop there are 3 palates. Viewport, Toolbox & layers/history etc. To get an idea of how the plated UI of Mac is, try GIMP on Windows. It really hinders the usability, cos now Photoshop has 3 Windows, & all are separate entities. Just minimizing the viewport will not minimize Photoshop.


Only the first line was necessary. The fact that instead of stretching and occupying the whole screen, leaving you looking at ten yards of blank white space on both sides of the webpage, Safari is wise enough to expand only as much as required is a good thing. The only thing that's missing is an additional option to stretch it to full screen sometimes.
Of course, Windows does not have the stretch-to-fit option either, which in most cases is the better option indeed - specially if you have a thirty inch monitor.
BTW, there is a free plug-in for Mac OS X (Megazoomer) that brings full screen functionality to most Mac applications. Find me a plug-in that does the opposite on Windows.



> 2) Dock shows all you frequent applications, but what about less frequent ones? There is no "Other apps" thing. The best way I was able to manage is to make a new folder "Applications" & put the shortcuts of non-frequent apps in it. Now to start these apps first click on the dock to open this folder & then the apps. This could have been solved if there was a Menu kind of option in dock


Drag the applications folder to the dock and then right click on it. There you have it, all your applications in a menu. I don't do it though. Quicksilver is the best way ever to launch applications and it is free.



> 3) Non-Standard keyboard shortcuts.


Mac have 'Command + C' for copy, 'Command + X' for cut, 'Command + V' for paste, 'Command + N' for new, 'Command + S' for Save, 'Command + A' for select all, etc.
We are being taught how to use Adobe Creative Suite in my institute nowadays and not even a single shortcut is different.



> 5) WMA's doesn't play in iTunes, nothing does. Just mp3 & AAC. Despite of using aac it doesn't sync with my K750i.


The day WMP will play M4A or MOV, iTunes will play WMA and WMV.



> 6) Also there is no PIM. I do not have access to outlook/office on Mac, & m seriously missing it. There are 3 seperate application such as Mail, Calender & Address book.


And they are not PIM applications? They are better integrated than Microsoft can ever hope to achieve with Outlook. I save a person's contact details in Address Book and his/her birthday automatically gets added to iCal, his .Mac address to iChat and his email address to Mail. I can connect my Nokia 6300 via bluetooth and send SMSes to him through my Mac. Try doing that on Windows.
And uh, BTW, Windows does not come with Office either.



> and if u try to drag ur applications folder to the dock ... it gets deleted


Oh really? Well, that's a good feature isn't it! You don't have to bother with dragging them to the trash can anymore, just drag them to the dock and woosh, there it goes.  /sarcasm 



> Mav , to add applications to the dock , you have to run them , then when they're running you have to right-click em n then select add to dock . whew , wuite an excersise just to add a shorcut to dock


Uh... tried dragging them to the dock yet? No?
OK, it is quite a simple procedure really. Click on the application and hold the mouse button down. Move your mouse and the application will move. It's moving? Good. Now move it to the translucent bar at the bottom of the screen (it is called a dock). You'll notice it makes space for the guest. Now just release the mouse button gently. See how it is now sitting cosily with the other applications? Good. Rest assured it won't go anywhere.



> There is also another reason. On a Mac, what u see is what u get (in colour). However with Windows XP the ability to use your own color profile system wide on any monitor took away this novelty of Mac


There is no way the colours on the screen of your Windows box will appear the same when printed. You can change all the profiles you want and do all your experiments. On a Mac, just print them as is and they will match colour-for-colour and shade-for-shade. Here in Arena Multimedia, my teacher always looks at the projects of other students on my Mac to assess how they will look in print. He told me I had a major advantage because of my Mac and my being in the creative field.



> Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. However file transfer using bluetooth is slow.


No, it isn't.



> My data cable of K750i isn't working to sync things thogh the memory card is visible.


Click on the Bluetooth button in the menu bar and select the option 'Set up Bluetooth Device...'. It is pretty must straightforward from there for anyone over the age of twelve. In fact, even this was pretty straightforward stuff. You want to sync something over bluetooth and yet it somehow never occurred to you to check out the Bluetooth menu. WOW!



> Vista does the same using bluetooth but only if you have a Windows mobile device.


Exactly. Which means most phones will not synchronise by default. In fact, you cannot synchronise your phones with Vista even using the PC suites. I've tried it out with Nokia 6300 and the latest version of Nokia PC Suite. On a Mac, almost every phone is supported by default and you do not need any third party software. I use my phone as a modem, send SMSes from my Mac and read them on it too, send and accept calls, synchronise my address book and calendar - everything by default.



> 3) Doesn't comes with a messenger client which works with all protocalls out there (I mean to say adium which is free)


Oh, and Windows does? Macs come with an IM client that supports four protocols (Mac, AOL, Jabber and Bonjour) and has excellent audio/video capabilities. Windows comes with a messenger client that... oh wait, Windows does not come with any instant messenger client.







... next...

(I haven't even started enumerating the pros of Mac OS X yet!)


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## led_shankar (May 16, 2007)

You're all extremely juvenile people here. I don't see how my choice of OS should piss you people off so much.

I use linux most often, because it is best for my purpose. I use Windows (XP) on my tablet PC, because it is the best OS for THAT PURPOSE. All these flame wars and pissing contests show a lack of maturity and all three of you are guilty of it. Look at iMav's sig - what crap. There is a place for every OS, and instead of incendiary remarks, try and be constructive. There is a big difference in being a fan of a particular OS (or software or whatever) and being rabidly opposed to another one. I suggest that the three of you learn to function as human beings before you try to learn using an OS.


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Who asked for your sagely advice?

We come to have fun here and this is our idea of having fun. If you have a problem with it, stop visiting threads such as this one. We have enough of babas and gurus in India to go around with and we certainly don't need another one dishing out free advice.


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## led_shankar (May 16, 2007)

Right, so in course of having "fun", you destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion in a very specific forum (last time I checked, this was a tech forum), turning any and every thread into a slugfest.


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Oh really? I haven't even posted in "any and every thread" in this forum.


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## iMav (May 16, 2007)

HFS not being readable by windows is bad coz do it u need to purchase an app however for reading ntfs on mac its free (which means pple want ntfs readable on a mac)  and besides tht was neither a good point nor a bad just pointed tht out 

in vista u can drag ur gadgets to the desktop  

and as far as dragging to the dock i have told u that u cant add a folder to ur left of the dock ...

and u said somewhere about dragging to trash ... only fools drag things to recycle bin or trash ... sensible ppl right click and delete or move to trash

in vista u get msn which can be used to chat with yahoo members 

gx is talking about theming ur OS 

PS: no point talking anything coz fatbeing, raabo or mehul will come and lock this thread also .... : so well lets be happy with our OS and im sorry fellow members we cannot tell u how a MAC OS X looks and works coz the mods and other members dont want us to


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 16, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> and u said somewhere about dragging to trash ... only fools drag things to recycle bin or trash ... sensible ppl right click and delete or move to trash


 yeah , this behaviour felt a bit awkward , coz hitting delete is *infinitely faster* than draggning anything to trash and if there's a two-key shortcut to just delete a file then it kills the purpose of the shortcut.


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> in vista u can drag ur gadgets to the desktop


Did I say you cannot?



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and as far as dragging to the dock i have told u that u cant add a folder to ur left of the dock ...


And the point is? In Vista, you cannot place a file in the title bar of a window and you cannot drag an application onto the clock! What sense does this point make? You are supposed to keep your applications on the left and the other things on the right. Simple.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and u said somewhere about dragging to trash ... only fools drag things to recycle bin or trash ... sensible ppl right click and delete or move to trash


I can say that fools go to the trouble of right clicking and then deleting, "sensible ppl" drag files to the trash. Another person will come along saying that fools do either and that "sensible ppl" used the keyboard. It is different for different people. But in Mac OS X, you can use all three methods. Tell me how will you drag a file to the recycle bin when an explorer window is maximised. You cannot. Mac users, in general, always prefer drag and drop to right clicking. 



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> in vista u get msn which can be used to chat with yahoo members


On Mac OS X, you get Adium "which can be used to chat with" AOL, Windows Live, Yahoo!, ICQ, Jabber, Bonjour, Google Talk, Apple .Mac, Lotus Sametime, Novel Groupwise, QQ, Gadu-Gadu and Live Journal Talk members.
That is beside that point. Windows does not ship with an IM client while Mac OS X does, and a very capable one at that.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> gx is talking about theming ur OS


Yes, there is no option of theming the operating system by default. One of the three geniune drawbacks that have already been mentioned.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> PS: no point talking anything coz fatbeing, raabo or mehul will come and lock this thread also .... : so well lets be happy with our OS and im sorry fellow members we cannot tell u how a MAC OS X looks and works coz the mods and other members dont want us to


WOW! Another gx_saurav in the making. Now that you've run out of points and your tail is between your legs (metaphorically speaking), you've started showing up with lame excuses. You were all excited about trying Mac OS X and then posting the drawbacks unbiasedly. Now that you have the opportunity and I have given the explanation for whatever you've come up with so far, you're suddenly afraid of FatBeing. LOL! 

You have the OS and I'm challenging you to post the negatives (for the last fifteen posts). Do it, c'mon. Refute whatever I've said in the previous post explaining your so called "unbiased drawbacks". Can you? No, because - ironically enough - this is "the truth revealed".


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> yeah , this behaviour felt a bit awkward , coz hitting delete is *infinitely faster* than draggning anything to trash and if there's a two-key shortcut to just delete a file then it kills the purpose of the shortcut.


It is two keys on Windows too - Delete and Enter. On Windows, the shortcut is just one key and then there is a confirmation dialog in case you hit it by mistake. In Mac OS X, there is a two key shortcut that is just as easy to hit but you cannot press accidentally, so there is no need of a confirmation dialog. Both methods are equally effective and neither is better or worse than the other.

I use this when my hand is on the keyboard and drag the file to the trash when I'm operating the mouse.

All you guys are doing can be accurately summed up in one word, "nit-picking".


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## iMav (May 16, 2007)

no actually the last point is thanx to the locking of the previous thread and as far as gadgets are concernd widgets on desktop 

arya about the deleting thing get a life dude read again what u just typed ... its stupid (honestly)

and as far as docking somehing is concerned again read what u posted in the previous post and what my reply is its not about knowing how to drag but where to drag  what **** are u talking by moving apps to the taskbar ...

 now u dont even know the difference between the dock and the taskbar

i never said im posting the negatives im revealing facts thts what we did in the previous post which got locked ... now u quoted almost everything how about the first point i mentioned


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> arya about the deleting thing get a life dude read again what u just typed ... its stupid (honestly)


What! What's stupid about it!



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and as far as docking somehing is concerned again read what u posted in the previous post and what my reply is its not about knowing how to drag but where to drag  what **** are u talking by moving apps to the taskbar ...


You are not supposed to drag your applications onto the clock in Windows, right? Similarly, you're not supposed to place folders on the left side of the dock. WTH is so complicated about it that you have to be explained like a toddler! I used the OS the first time too but I never had trouble figuring out where I was supposed to keep what in the dock. By default, you have applications on the left and a link and the trash on the right. The trash is a folder. Doesn't all this give you a visual cue of how things are supposed to be done? Won't it get messy if you dump all your folders and applications together? And anyway, when you try dragging a folder onto the left and the applications do not make space for it, doesn't common sense dictate you to try moving it across the clearly demarcated region on the left of the dock. I've seen a lot of Windows switchers but none of them was stupid enough to think that dragging something onto the dock will delete it and I simply cannot believe that a bunch of well educated teenagers are having trouble dragging a folder onto something as simple as the dock in Mac OS X. LOL! 



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> i never said im posting the negatives im revealing facts thts what we did in the previous post which got locked ... now u quoted almost everything how about the first point i mentioned


So reveal the facts. Reveal some more of them.


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## blackpearl (May 16, 2007)

led_shankar said:
			
		

> You're all extremely juvenile people here. I don't see how my choice of OS should piss you people off so much.
> 
> I use linux most often, because it is best for my purpose. I use Windows (XP) on my tablet PC, because it is the best OS for THAT PURPOSE. All these flame wars and pissing contests show a lack of maturity and all three of you are guilty of it. Look at iMav's sig - what crap. There is a place for every OS, and instead of incendiary remarks, try and be constructive. *There is a big difference in being a fan of a particular OS (or software or whatever) and being rabidly opposed to another one.* I suggest that the three of you learn to function as human beings before you try to learn using an OS.



The only sane person here!!



			
				led_shankar said:
			
		

> You're all extremely juvenile people here. I don't see how my choice of OS should piss you people off so much.



That's exactly what I'm thinking. And read and reread the statement in bold.
I use WinXP (sometimes linux too), somebody else uses linux or Mac. So what?
I use Opera, somebody uses firefox.
I use DAP, somebody uses IDM.
I use nod32, somebody kaspersky.
Does that mean I should fight with everybody who doesn't use _my_ software?


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## iMav (May 16, 2007)

we dont have anything against any os but people who constantly hi-jack threads and ppl who constantly keep on sayin tht their os the best when it cant even cut a file/folder


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

WOW! I can (sort of) feel the pain of iMav. Poor tyke thought he would use Mac OS X for a few days and then make a list of all the reasons why it is a lousy operating system and post it for the world to see. Turns out he could come it with only one decent negative - it does not have the cut option when you right click on a file.

Now, he's posting it in every other post he makes and has even made it his signature.

Have you ever reflected on what this sounds like:
"Windows might lack in security but atleast it has a cut option"

Being bombarded by malware is a problem on the same level of having to delete a file after you have copied it onto another drive!? LOL!
What will you say the next time someone asks you why you use Windows? "It has the cut option."


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## iMav (May 16, 2007)

well as i said earlier most of us dont work for the cia, kgb, raw so dont care so much for the security part and me have never said that mac is bad all we have said it has its short comings and it is wrong for its users to pronounce it as the best os  and yeah mac doesnt allow u cut damn


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Everything on Earth has shortcomings. BMW's cars have shortcomings too but it does not change the fact that they make the best cars. Mac OS X has shortcomings too - doesn't change the fact that it is the best operating system.

I'm just giving you guys time. Even I could name more drawbacks in Mac OS X than you guys have.

When I'll start with the list of positives, you'll be seeking cover.

And just to make sure that this (very important) post does not get buried in all the others posts that are going to follow (and I don't have to address the same points again later), I'm re-quoting it from the first page:





> OK. So this is the list of "flaws" in Mac OS X, and the myth-busting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 16, 2007)

well there's a difference between pressing two keys n a two-key shortcut , if you know what i mean .

in a two key shortcut you have to keep pressing the first key while pressing the second one , this is a bit tedious , but if you press delete n then hit enter(and that too , the confirmation can be disabled , as in my case) it's much easier than pressing Control-Delete . 

Arya , please evaluate it objectively , i'm not bashing the OS , i'm just asking u on a usability basis , be it for mac or linux ...


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## aryayush (May 16, 2007)

Well, Zeeshan, I'm being as objective as it is humanly possible to be but saying that 'Windows + Backspace' is a "tedious" shortcut is really _really_ lame. It is just mind-blowingly lame.

Both keys are on the right hand side of the keyboard and it requires the use of only one hand. Unless you are missing a thumb (which I doubt you are), it really couldn't be a whole lot simpler.

In all seriousness, even gx_saurav would have trouble cooking up something _that_ lame!

Oh, and BTW, you can add a different shortcut for the 'Move to Trash' command in the System Preferences under Keyboard Shortcuts but I had a hard time trying to think of an easier and more sensible shortcut than 'Command + Delete'. You could use 'Ctrl + .' or something because the two keys are right next to each other. You might even be able to press them with just one finger.


 I _still_ cannot believe you posted that!


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## gxsaurav (May 16, 2007)

> The day WMP will play M4A or MOV, iTunes will play WMA and WMV.



Do you know anything about Power DVD or FFDSHow or Orban? They all play MP4 & M4A in WMP fine cos they are all direct show based. But despite of QuickTime based iTunes doesn't play any music format including wma other then mp3 & aac.



> You cannot even read HFS partitions in Windows.



Yup we cannot. But you can read NTFS drives in MacOS X thanx to Microsoft. Now you can also write to NTFS Drives using Macfuse & NTFS-3G thanx to the open source community which I am sure apple will shamefully copy in Leopard.



> But in Windows, you have no option to have a separate layer for your widgets... uh, gadgets.



Drag a gadget from gadget container or sidebar to desktop. Done.



> The fact that instead of stretching and occupying the whole screen, leaving you looking at ten yards of blank white space on both sides of the webpage, Safari is wise enough to expand only as much as required is a good thing.



Umm...Page zooming, content folding...Nope doesn't rings a bell in your head for sure. Hey, is safari the only app which should be maximized ?



> Of course, Windows does not have the stretch-to-fit option either, which in most cases is the better option indeed - especially if you have a thirty inch monitor.



  so? That is how things are done in Windows. You get the full desktop real estate.



> They are better integrated than Microsoft can ever hope to achieve with Outlook. I save a person's contact details in Address Book and his/her birthday automatically gets added to iCal, his .Mac address to iChat and his email address to Mail. I can connect my Nokia 6300 via Bluetooth and send SMSes to him through my Mac.



Lolz...you are joking right. No seriously, u r, right? Have you ever used outlook ?whatever changes to make in a contact in Outlook are reflected throughout the system. The birthday gets added to calendar, the & everything else which u just mentioned from a long time. Hell even Vista PIM (Windows Mail, Windows Contacts & Windows Calendar) does the same.


> I can connect my Nokia 6300 via Bluetooth and send SMSes to him through my Mac.



My Phone explorer 1.59 + Outlook connection + data cable/Bluetooth



> And uh, BTW, Windows does not come with Office either.


Tsk tsk.....umm, I hope you know the reason why.



> There is no way the colours on the screen of your Windows box will appear the same when printed



How long have u been in Arena Multimedia . No seriously I want to know how long have u been using Photoshop & its color management profile. I guess you don't know how to set colour profile in Windows OS , do u? You set sRGB or whatever profiles you like in Photoshop or Windows Printer color profile & BOOM, it is reflected on all your prints.



> Here in Arena Multimedia, my teacher always looks at the projects of other students on my Mac to assess how they will look in print. He told me I had a major advantage because of my Mac and my being in the creative field.



Oh, you are my junior. Well,  from now on I don't mind whatever you say . Now plz go & tell your teacher to open Photoshop -> go to edit -> preference-> colour profile to set the profile to CMYK, BOOM you see & print the same color you see on screen to the printer. Don't worry even I told this to my teachers for the first time  3 years back



> Mac has Bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB Bluetooth stick. However file transfer using Bluetooth is slow.
> 
> No, it isn't



Sorry, I again forgot you hardware knowledge is 0

Speed of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR = 3 MBps

Speed of SE Fast port using data cable using USB 2.0 = 60 MBps. In my K750i when copying files to Memory Stick Pro duo it reaches 8 MBps easily.



> Click on the Bluetooth button in the menu bar and select the option 'Set up Bluetooth Device...'. It is pretty must straightforward from there for anyone over the age of twelve. In fact, even this was pretty straightforward stuff. You want to sync something over Bluetooth and yet it somehow never occurred to you to check out the Bluetooth menu. WOW!





			
				Me said:
			
		

> My data cable of K750i isn't working to sync things though the memory card is visible.



Did I mentioned Bluetooth anywhere?


> In fact, you cannot synchronies your phones with Vista even using the PC suites. I've tried it out with Nokia 6300 and the latest version of Nokia PC Suite.



Ok, first you use Nokia PC Suite 

2nd, did u bothered checking in the option for Outlook sync?



> I use my phone as a modem, send SMSes from my Mac and read them on it too, send and accept calls, synchronies my address book and calendar - everything by default.



Install Nokia PC Suite + Outlook on PC. BOOM everything is possible. If you are buying an OEM PC (Which Mac is also) then you already have outlook.



> Oh, and Windows does? Macs come with an IM client that supports four protocols (Mac, AOL, Jabber and Bonjour) and has excellent audio/video capabilities. Windows comes with a messenger client that... oh wait, Windows does not come with any instant messenger client.



Windows Live messenger, ever tried gathering some info before making a statement



			
				imav said:
			
		

> in vista u can drag ur gadgets to the desktop





> Did I say you cannot?



Yup you did. Sidebar cannot overlay, yes. Can it be put on a separate layer on desktop. Yup. Do some research before bashing for no reason.



> On Mac OS X, you get Adium "which can be used to chat with" AOL, Windows Live, Yahoo!, ICQ, Jabber, Bonjour, Google Talk, Apple .Mac, Lotus Sametime, Novel Groupwise, QQ, Gadu-Gadu and Live Journal Talk members.
> That is beside that point. Windows does not ship with an IM client while Mac OS X does, and a very capable one at that.



Umm...Windows Live messenger & MSN Messenger, does that rings a bell? They are already there in new OEM PCs & MS was sued for bundling MSN messenger in Vista if you remember. Oh & MacOS X doesn’t comes with Adium. You will need to download it, well you will need to do the same in case of Windows.



> You have the OS and I'm challenging you to post the negatives (for the last fifteen posts). Do it, c'mon. Refute whatever I've said in the previous post explaining your so called "unbiased drawbacks". Can you? No, because - ironically enough - this is "the truth revealed".



Braking news : Windows users do not give a damn to Mac users on whatever they are saying.



> WOW! I can (sort of) feel the pain of iMav. Poor tyke thought he would use Mac OS X for a few days and then make a list of all the reasons why it is a lousy operating system and post it for the world to see.



Actually, you do that for Windows. We use MacOS X in nearest Apple store just to confirm what you have said & point out your lies.



> Now, he's posting it in every other post he makes and has even made it his signature.



Mind looking at you own, or Nepckers sig.



> well as I said earlier most of us don’t work for the cia, kgb, raw so don’t care so much for the security part



OMG  I better secure my super secret recipe for Weight reduction. It is worth a million & Rosy O' Brian will kill to get it 



> Well, Zeeshan, I'm being as objective as it is humanly possible to be but saying that 'Windows + Backspace' is a "tedious" shortcut is really lame. It is just mind-blowingly lame.



it is lame, when there is a "delete" key on keyboard for deleting



> In all seriousness, even gx_saurav would have trouble cooking up something that lame!



I just cooked Dal makhni, want to be my guinea pig...I mean, want to be my beta tester. Money back if you die .


iMav, no point argueing dude. We were posting facts & shortcomings in that thread & it got locked. You can yourself understand the situation of this forum where Windows users are regarderd as lamers just cos we do our work without thinking of a computer as a computer, without thinking about it instead treating it just as a tool.


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## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Do you know anything about Power DVD or FFDSHow or Orban? They all play MP4 & M4A in WMP fine cos they are all direct show based. But despite of QuickTime based iTunes doesn't play any music format including wma other then mp3 & aac.


Point noted. Four drawbacks, this one being a somewhat major one for certain long time Windows users.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup we cannot. But you can read NTFS drives in MacOS X thanx to Microsoft. Now you can also write to NTFS Drives using Macfuse & NTFS-3G thanx to the open source community which I am sure apple will shamefully copy in Leopard.


Windows users are the last people who should take about copying and stuff. And I think it is spectacular that Apple is embracing open source technologies and not interfering with the people who support open source, instead of shouting that Linux violates xxx number of patents and threatening to take legal action.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Drag a gadget from gadget container or sidebar to desktop. Done.


Obscuring precious screen estate.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> so? That is how things are done in Windows. You get the full desktop real estate.


Even if more than half of it is being wasted. It hampers productivity and the ability to multi-task effectively.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...you are joking right. No seriously, u r, right? Have you ever used outlook ?whatever changes to make in a contact in Outlook are reflected throughout the system. The birthday gets added to calendar, the & everything else which u just mentioned from a long time. Hell even Vista PIM (Windows Mail, Windows Contacts & Windows Calendar) does the same.
> 
> My Phone explorer 1.59 + Outlook connection + data cable/Bluetooth
> 
> Tsk tsk.....umm, I hope you know the reason why.


Outlook is neither free, nor does it come bundled with PCs from computer manufacturers such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, etc.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How long have u been in Arena Multimedia . No seriously I want to know how long have u been using Photoshop & its color management profile. I guess you don't know how to set colour profile in Windows OS , do u? You set sRGB or whatever profiles you like in Photoshop or Windows Printer color profile & BOOM, it is reflected on all your prints.
> 
> Oh, you are my junior. Well,  from now on I don't mind whatever you say . Now plz go & tell your teacher to open Photoshop -> go to edit -> preference-> colour profile to set the profile to CMYK, BOOM you see & print the same color you see on screen to the printer. Don't worry even I told this to my teachers for the first time  3 years back


It is impossible. I know all about colour profiles in Adobe applications and so does my teacher. If you had one/tenth as much knowledge as he has, you would be hundred times more knowledgeable than you are now!
In fact, it was while explaining colour profiles to us that he told us that though colour profiles do a good job of bringing the on-screen colour close to how it would appear in print, it will never be accurate unless you own a Mac. Also, you have to keep changing your colour profiles for different printers. So once you've already prepared the project, if you decide to print in another printer than the one you generally use, you have to ask the printer (the person who does the printing) which colour profile suits his printer, then change your colour profile and then edit the colours if they fluctuate too much from the original.
And even after all that, the prints still would differ slightly. This is the reason most creative people prefer Macs because of the accurate on-screen colour reproduction and this is the reason Adobe's colour profiles have an Apple RGB profile. This is the profile that will give you near accurate on-screen colour reproduction for most professional grade printers.
I admit that I am a bit confused by all this jargon but whatever I have mentioned here is clearly what out teacher told us.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Sorry, I again forgot you hardware knowledge is 0
> 
> Speed of Bluetooth 2.0+EDR = 3 MBps
> 
> Speed of SE Fast port using data cable using USB 2.0 = 60 MBps. In my K750i when copying files to Memory Stick Pro duo it reaches 8 MBps easily.


You did not even mention USB in your post. You said that "Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. However file transfer using bluetooth is slow." Macs have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and no USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Did I mentioned Bluetooth anywhere?


I did sync my W550i once using the data cable but have always used Bluetooth after that. I don't remember how I'd set it up with the USB cable at that time. It might be that you have to first set it up as a Bluetooth device and enable synchronisation with it before using the USB cable. Or you might have to connect it in the phone mode and use the Synchronisation option on the phone. I don't really remember.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Ok, first you use Nokia PC Suite


I don't have many options if it is not there by default, do I!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 2nd, did u bothered checking in the option for Outlook sync?
> 
> Install Nokia PC Suite + Outlook on PC. BOOM everything is possible. If you are buying an OEM PC (Which Mac is also) then you already have outlook.


"Outlook is neither free, nor does it come bundled with PCs from computer manufacturers such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, etc."



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Windows Live messenger, ever tried gathering some info before making a statement


It isn't there by default. You complained that Mac "Doesn't comes with a messenger client which works with all protocalls out there (I mean to say adium which is free)". Well, Windows does not come with a messenger client at all.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup you did. Sidebar cannot overlay, yes. Can it be put on a separate layer on desktop. Yup. Do some research before bashing for no reason.


I haven't even started yet, and you are already uneasy! Sidebar does it one way and Dashboard another. Neither of them have the option of doing it both ways. I prefer the Dashboard (the effects alone are enough to make the Sidebar look like something designed in 1997) and you prefer the Sidebar. Stop complaining now.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Umm...Windows Live messenger & MSN Messenger, does that rings a bell? They are already there in new OEM PCs & MS was sued for bundling MSN messenger in Vista if you remember.


I certainly don't care who was sued for doing what. I just know that it is an operating system that costs Rs. 12,000 and does not come with an instant messenger client.
As for OEMs. If you are using OEMs anyway, it defeats your primary argument in favour of Windows - our operating system, the way we want it.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Oh & MacOS X doesn’t comes with Adium. You will need to download it, well you will need to do the same in case of Windows.


Mac OS X ships with a very capable instant messaging client. Windows does not. End of discussion.
Adium is not equivalent to Windows Live Messenger, it is equivalent to the likes of Miranda and Trillian.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Actually, you do that for Windows. We use MacOS X in nearest Apple store just to confirm what you have said & point out your lies.


Like what? What huge revelation have you done till now and what else is forthcoming? I can hardly wait...



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mind looking at you own, or Nepckers sig.


It certainly does not say something as idiotic "who cares if Macs aren't good at gaming, at least we have a summarize utility", which is similar to what iMav's signature "boast" about Windows.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> OMG  I better secure my super secret recipe for Weight reduction. It is worth a million & Rosy O' Brian will kill to get it


Yeah, well, your computer's security might not be important for you, but it is for the rest of the world including me.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> it is lame, when there is a "delete" key on keyboard for deleting


OK. You guys have found a fifth flaw. The shortcut for deleting files is 'Ctrl + Delete' instead of just Delete. Genius!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> iMav, no point argueing dude. We were posting facts & shortcomings in that thread & it got locked.


All the "shortcomings" are here for all to see. What's stopping you. Continue with it. *You'd be bursting to post the shortcomings if there were any.* And the fact that you are aimlessly arguing and trying to deviate from the topic only indicates you level of success with finding negatives in the operating system.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You can yourself understand the situation of this forum where Windows users are regarderd as lamers just cos we do our work without thinking of a computer as a computer, without thinking about it instead treating it just as a tool.


Yeah, I can surely see that!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 17, 2007)

> Windows users are the last people who should take about copying and stuff. And I think it is spectacular that Apple is embracing open source technologies and not interfering with the people who support open source, instead of shouting that Linux violates xxx number of patents and threatening to take legal action.



You sound just like Anu Malik, when after copying a whole hollywood song "Makarena" he said, I didn't copy, i just took inspiration 



> Even if more than half of it is being wasted. It hampers productivity and the ability to multi-task effectively.



Mac users like to see Palated Windows & that too many of them. Windows users like to see Single Window for single app.



> Outlook is neither free, *nor does it come bundled with PCs from computer manufacturers such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, etc.*



Tsk tsk....go check again. MS Office OEM is always a bundle.



> In fact, it was while explaining colour profiles to us that he told us that though colour profiles do a good job of bringing the on-screen colour close to how it would appear in print, *it will never be accurate unless you own a Mac.* *Also, you have to keep changing your colour profiles for different printers.* So once you've already prepared the project, if you decide to print in another printer than the one you generally use, you have to ask the printer (the person who does the printing) which colour profile suits his printer, then change your colour profile and then edit the colours if they fluctuate too much from the original.
> * And even after all that, the prints still would differ slightly.* This is the reason most creative people prefer Macs because of the accurate on-screen colour reproduction and this is the reason Adobe's colour profiles have an Apple RGB profile. This is the profile that will give you near accurate on-screen colour reproduction for most professional grade printers.
> I admit that I am a bit confused by all this jargon but whatever I have mentioned here is clearly what out teacher told us.



:ROFL:

First, Photoshop uses sRGB color profile to show something on screen which you can change to CMYK if u want. Now you see the color as it will be printed.

In Vista (cos it is new) Go to control panel & search for color (a simple term) & it will give u an option to set a colour profile. Set any one you like & select "Set as default"

1) Why won't it be accurate ? What you see on screen now (the selected color profile) is what you get in printer (The system wide color profile). Have you ever tried printing something in Windows after setting a color profile?

2) Nope, once you set the default color profile, this will be the default for all printers from now on.

3) Why? I don't find a reason, do u? Plz mention why. Does the printer changes itself when used on Windows  or are you just making stories. Arya, u r starting to learn photoshop. There are photoshop gurus out here already (nikhil, goobi)



> You did not even mention USB in your post.



Did u see the word "Data cable"



> Macs have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and n*o USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do*.



Why is that?  Does Mac is the only one out there which can use Blue tooth 2.0+EDR in a computer, then what happened to Belkin, D-Link bluetooth 2.0 adapters available in the marekt, what happened to HP povilian Laptops with inbuilt bluetooth 2.0 HDR.



> I did sync my W550i once using the data cable but have always used Bluetooth after that. *I don't remember how I'd set it up with the USB cable at that time.* It might be that you have to first set it up as a Bluetooth device and enable synchronisation with it before using the USB cable. Or you might have to connect it in the phone mode and use the Synchronisation option on the phone. I don't really remember.



You did this, you did that...now you don't remembar. Old story with you. 



> I don't have many options if it is not there by default, do I!



Did u tried searching for Mobtime cell phone manager ?



> And the fact that you are aimlessly arguing and trying to deviate from the topic only indicates you level of success with finding negatives in the operating system.



 did you for once tried to read & understand the meaning of what i said


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

I hope you don't mind that I am skipping past the nonsense.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mac users like to see Palated Windows & that too many of them. Windows users like to see Single Window for single app.


They don't have any choice.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tsk tsk....go check again. MS Office OEM is always a bundle.


It never is. I've seen tens of people buy laptops from various companies and not one of them ever shipped with Microsoft Office installed.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> :ROFL:
> 
> First, Photoshop uses sRGB color profile to show something on screen which you can change to CMYK if u want. Now you see the color as it will be printed.
> 
> ...


I'll get back to you on this one tomorrow.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Did u see the word "Data cable"


No, I didn't. This is exactly what you said, "Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. However file transfer using bluetooth is slow." You made it sound like, for some reason, USB bluetooth devices are faster than the built-in receiver that Macs have.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Why is that?  Does Mac is the only one out there which can use Blue tooth 2.0+EDR in a computer, then what happened to Belkin, D-Link bluetooth 2.0 adapters available in the marekt, what happened to HP povilian Laptops with inbuilt bluetooth 2.0 HDR.


It really isn't my fault that you were whiling away your time in the "casanova institute of love" when we were learning English. I said that "no USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do". Both have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR. How can the USB devices give you faster speeds then! If two bikes are running at 60 Km/h, both have the same speed, don't they? Don't make me resort to trying to make you understand this in hindi now



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You did this, you did that...now you don't remembar. Old story with you.






			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Did u tried searching for Mobtime cell phone manager ?


Why should I! Why should any person have to resort to using additional software (and that too from third parties) for doing something as basic as synchronising their phone with their computer in 2007!
I buy a phone and I buy Vista, all excited about what is supposed to be the latest and greatest operating system. I connect my phone and the operating system does not even blink. I use the file manager option and it gets recognised as flash storage. That's it. Then I have to install a stupid PC Suite. It turns out, even the PC Suite won't let me synchronise my phone with the computer. Then someone tells me that I need to buy and install another piece of software for doing something I should've been able to do as soon as I connected my phone to my computer. Duh! In other words, Vista's just as useful for my phone as Windows 98 is.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> did you for once tried to read & understand the meaning of what i said


No, I only understand human tongue, unfortunately!


----------



## assasin (May 17, 2007)

> Even if more than half of it is being wasted. It hampers productivity and the ability to multi-task effectively


if u want then atleast u can resize the window to ur liking which will give u ability to multitask.but to go full screen in mac u need to D/L 3rd party app.so sad aint it? . 




> This is the reason most creative people prefer Macs


 
if that had been the case then the no of ppl using mac 2day wud hav been more than it really is.





> You did not even mention USB in your post. You said that "Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. However file transfer using bluetooth is slow." Macs have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and no USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do.


 
buy ur self a good quality USB 2.0 bluetooth dongle and u'll get the idea of the transfer speeds.
wake up dood.wat do u think that the in-built bluetooth of ur mac is built with something out of this world??its just that most ppl use chaep usb bluetooth dongle which dont support good transfer speeds. 




> Yeah, well, your computer's security might not be important for you, but it is for the rest of the world including me.


atleast we hav 3rd party apps to take care of security in Windows.but for macs u dont even hav 3rd party apps to take care of the *'cut'* function.



> Why should I! Why should any person have to resort to using additional software (and that too from third parties) for doing something as basic as synchronising their phone with their computer in 2007!


 
then why sud anyone hafta use any 3rd party apps to as simple & basic a thing as making a window fullscreen in 2007?????


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> if u want then atleast u can resize the window to ur liking which will give u ability to multitask.but to go full screen in mac u need to D/L 3rd party app.so sad aint it? .


No, you can resize the window to your liking on a Mac too so you can stretch it to occupy as much space as possible. At least on a Mac, you can just re-size it once and leave it but on Windows, you have to keep resizing your window as the pages you are loading in your browser change.



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> if that had been the case then the no of ppl using mac 2day wud hav been more than it really is.


Everyone knows that Macs are very popular in the creative and education fields and I don't need to explain it to you like a kid. I would rather they were not so popular, but I can't help it, can I?



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> buy ur self a good quality USB 2.0 bluetooth dongle and u'll get the idea of the transfer speeds.
> wake up dood.wat do u think that the in-built bluetooth of ur mac is built with something out of this world??its just that most ppl use chaep usb bluetooth dongle which dont support good transfer speeds.


Did all of you bunk the grammar classes in junior school? I said that "Macs have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR and no USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do." This statement is hundred percent accurate. I did not say that the in-built Bluetooth on Macs is faster than the USB Bluetooth sticks out there. If both have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR, both will have the same speeds. But since Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR is the fastest Bluetooth standard in the world, you can never have a USB Bluetooth stick that performs _better_ than the in-built Bluetooth in Macs. Is it so difficult to understand your simple, everyday English!



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> atleast we hav 3rd party apps to take care of security in Windows.but for macs u dont even hav 3rd party apps to take care of the *'cut'* function.


Even people who support Windows must be thinking how lame you guys' argument is. There is one oversight in the operating system - you cannot cut and paste a file between two drives and you guys have stuck to it like one magnet on another. You have absolutely nothing else to criticise. I take that as a huge complement for the operating system that even when they are challenged to do so, the best the detractors can do is number four bugs out of which only one can be considered a major one.
And when I'll start with the things that Mac OS X does by default and you cannot do in Windows even with paid third party software, you won't be quite the big-mouth that you are now!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> then why sud anyone hafta use any 3rd party apps to as simple & basic a thing as making a window fullscreen in 2007?????


Just drag any window and make it full screen. It will remember that setting and never change unless you want it to. And in applications that need as much space as they can have, they do go full screen automatically such as iPhoto, TextEdit, iCal, etc. It is only in applications that waste screen space that they occupy only as much as they need to like Safari, iChat, etc. You don't need a messenger with a list of contacts to use the whole screen and waste eighty percent of it. It is highly inefficient. You use Windows and are stuck with it, so you have no option. Of course you'll want to defend it when you aren't left with much choice.

At present I am using OmniWeb to browse this forum. It is using half the screen space and I can easily broswe this forum in that. Meanwhile, I can see my RSS reader on the side with a feed I am in the middle of reading, a photoshop document I have open, my iTunes window that shows me what's playing, a text document I need and my email client. I don't need to switch different windows for status updates on my other applications. Mac users always have the tendency to work on several applications at once. Windows users would generally be working on three applications together and two of them would be programs that do not need any user interaction. Your mindset changes when you switch to a Mac, you become more efficient.


----------



## iMav (May 17, 2007)

arya while compiling my difference between mac and pc article i came across a blog which said tht previously multimedia pplications were mac exclusive and hence mac was preffered but now the applications are not exclusive ....


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

It was written by someone who dislikes Macs and is just as highly informed as you guys. One of the most important applications in the creative field today is Final Cut Studio and the four applications it comes with. The fifth one has been launched recently and most probably, that will become just as famous. It is the Photoshop of movie production. Almost every Hollywood movie with hi-fi special effects has FCP involved.

Then there is RenderMan, a software that runs only on Mac servers and is the holy grail of animation. Dreamworks uses it - so does every other animation studio worth its salt.

There are a lot of examples but I don't know about each one. And anyway, on a Mac you can run every application in the world, but you cannot run Mac applications on your everyday computer. These guys in movies and all have no shortage of money anyway. What do you think they will choose?

Anyway, please don't go off-topic. Everyone knows how popular Macs are in the creative field. Just show me those "unbiased" drawbacks you were talking about...

Oh, and BTW, I have a friend Siddharth who is into music. He is a good pianist and is into learning the Guitar these days. He did not have any idea what Macs were. When he saw my MBP, he was absolutely stunned by the looks of it. He asked me the price and all and I told him. Then I told him that it does not come with Windows. _"Eh saala, dedh lakh ka machine me_ Windows _tak install karke nahin deta hai!"_

I told him it does not have Linux either, in case that was what he had in mind. And then I showed him Mac OS X. He was indifferent to it. He liked the looks and the cool effects but he did not think it was something special. He did love the fact though, that I could browse the Internet without running any antivirus.

Then he saw the GarageBand icon in the dock and asked me what that was. Since I never use that application, I told him it was useless. He clicked on it nevertheless. If you would have seen it that day, you wouldn't have believed it. Within ten minutes, he already had all sorts of waves and all and something that looked like graphs was open and I don't even know what it was. He told me that it was better than any "virtual synthesizer" he had ever used on Windows and he asked me where he could buy a Mac and how much did the software cost. When I told him it was free, _"tu_ Internet _se_ piracy [sic] _kar liya hoga aur besi bak-bak kar raha hai. Dus hazaar se upar to is software ka hi lag jaayega!"_

He couldn't believe me. But he did when I showed him the software mentioned in the manual. His birthday is in September and he has asked me to pray for him that he can get a Mac on his birthday. 

So, I hope you see why Macs are preferred by creative people. Back to the topic now, shall we... the drawbacks, flaws?


----------



## gxsaurav (May 17, 2007)

Yawn ))))))) Good Morning.
What the.... this thread it still running 



> They don't have any choice



Minimize, Restore, Resize from any corner or side of a Windows. Nope that doesn't rings a bell in your head for sure.



> It never is. I've seen tens of people buy laptops from various companies and not one of them ever shipped with Microsoft Office installed.



He he he.....Dude, plz do not talk about OEM PCs now, cos just like hardware your knowledge is 0

By default Office OEM edition is bundled with Most OEM PCs running Windows. You do have an option not to buy it if you already have an Office License. Go check again on Dell.com or HP or Alienware....damn we got so many choices & beast machines to chose from 



> I'll get back to you on this one tomorrow.



lolz...pwned. Thats why I tell you to reserch first. You are new to Mac & Desigining boy, consult nikhil or goobi about photoshop & respect those who are senior to u 



> No, I didn't. This is exactly what you said, "Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. However file transfer using bluetooth is slow." You made it sound like, for some reason, USB bluetooth devices are faster than the built-in receiver that Macs have.



Any sane person in this world will know that Bluetooth is slower then Data cable. That is what I said there. hey assasin, iMav Zeeshan, did you guys had any trouble understanding in what i said above ? Arya, you sure you didn't want to read further & made up your own meaning. i didn't make it sound anything, it is as simple as it gets.



> said that "no USB bluetooth stick will give you faster speeds than the built-in Bluetooth in Macs do". Both have Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR. How can the USB devices give you faster speeds then!



This time you made it sound like "Bluetooth device in Mac is superior to those USB Bluetooth dongles" . I know I know, 0 hardware knowledge



> Why should I! Why should any person have to resort to using additional software (and that too from third parties) for doing something as basic as synchronising their phone with their computer in 2007!



Then you are a lame user. OS Manufacturer doesn't make a Phone, & thats why Phone manufacturer make such software. You are publically saying that 3rd party developers shouldn't be there. Like you mentioned in one other thread that "Developers don't like to make Music player for Mac cos it comes with a wonderful software called iTunes from Apple already"  what a reason for not developing an app.



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> if u want then atleast u can resize the window to ur liking which will give u ability to multitask.but to go full screen in mac u need to D/L 3rd party app.so sad aint it? .



Genuine Flaw in Mac again



> No, you can resize the window to your liking on a Mac too so you can stretch it to occupy as much space as possible. At least on a Mac, you can just re-size it once and leave it but on Windows, you have to keep resizing your window as the pages you are loading in your browser change.



Its called Maximize in Windows. That middle button among the 3 buttons on top left.



> Everyone knows that Macs are very popular in the creative and education fields and I don't need to explain it to you like a kid. I would rather they were not so popular, but I can't help it, can I?



Yup Macs are popular in creative field, but I mentioned this long ago to andy & seems u forgot to ask him. This depends on what application the Directar or designers use.



> And when I'll start with the things that Mac OS X does by default and you cannot do in Windows even with paid third party software, you won't be quite the big-mouth that you are now!



Braking news : Windows users do not give a damn to Macboys challenge on forum.



> It is highly inefficient. You use Windows and are stuck with it, so you have no option. Of course you'll want to defend it when you aren't left with much choice.



Restore, Resize from any side of a window...nope doesn't rings a bell in your head.



> Windows users would generally be working on three applications together and two of them would be programs that do not need any user interaction. Your mindset changes when you switch to a Mac, you become more efficient.



He he...you don't do much do u, or U have no idea how "More" work is done, do u? Go ask the working guys of this forum how they rape & rade Windows everyday to maximum performance 



> It was written by someone who dislikes Macs and is just as highly informed as you guys. One of the most important applications in the creative field today is Final Cut Studio and the four applications it comes with



Ya, right. If someone doesn't likes a Mac then he is a Mac hater despite of the fact that he find it flawed genuinely.

About FCP....umm Arya, do u know the name of the software *Adobe After Effect & Autodesk combustion* ? They are used together more then FCP out there. No production pipeline is without combustion (it makes it damn easy to interprest 3D data in composition work).


> Then there is RenderMan, a software that runs only on Mac servers and is the holy grail of animation. Dreamworks uses it - so does every other animation studio worth its salt.



*Renderman is actually a standerd*, & is very costly. It is getting tough competiton in the animation market from Mental Ray cos mental ray runs on both PC & Mac (Alias Maya, Softimage & 3Ds Max) & also Linux. Renderman is still more used for *animation from pixar etc*. Umm...have u been reading the making of movies like Posidon or Underworld 2 or Pirates 2/3.



> There are a lot of examples but I don't know about each one. And anyway, *on a Mac you can run every application in the world, but you cannot run Mac applications on your everyday computer*. These guys in movies and all have no shortage of money anyway. What do you think they will choose?



So, is that our fault that Apple isn't releasing MacOS X for general PCs when both Mac & PC are exectly same hardware wise.


----------



## praka123 (May 17, 2007)

why there is no one react against windows fanboys?Are U all windows fanboys-the devil's disciples,eh?


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Minimize, Restore, Resize from any corner or side of a Windows. Nope that doesn't rings a bell in your head for sure.


There's Yahoo! OK, drag Internet Explorer to occupy 800 pixels. Great! OK, there's Microsoft, increase the size. Wait, it's Google now, decrease it. Idiot!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> He he he.....Dude, plz do not talk about OEM PCs now, cos just like hardware your knowledge is 0
> 
> By default Office OEM edition is bundled with Most OEM PCs running Windows. You do have an option not to buy it if you already have an Office License. Go check again on Dell.com or HP or Alienware....damn we got so many choices & beast machines to chose from


Just because you are saying does not mean it is true. I already know your capacity to lie - it is unrivaled.
Even if PCs did come with Office installed, it would still defeat your primary argument in favour of Windows - our OS, the way we want it (which is a stupid argument in the first place).



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> lolz...pwned. Thats why I tell you to reserch first. You are new to Mac & Desigining boy, consult nikhil or goobi about photoshop & respect those who are senior to u


Yeah... let's see... I'll be back with this one. Enjoy till then! And if you consider yourself senior to me, LOL!, you must be on crack or something.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Any sane person in this world will know that Bluetooth is slower then Data cable. That is what I said there. hey assasin, iMav Zeeshan, did you guys had any trouble understanding in what i said above ? Arya, you sure you didn't want to read further & made up your own meaning. i didn't make it sound anything, it is as simple as it gets.


Are you nuts! You did not even mention data cable anywhere. You said that since Macs come with Bluetooth built-in, you do not need to use external Bluetooth peripherals but the built-in Bluetooth is slow.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> This time you made it sound like "Bluetooth device in Mac is superior to those USB Bluetooth dongles" . I know I know, 0 hardware knowledge


It is hardly my fault that your knowledge of the English language is 0.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Then you are a lame user. OS Manufacturer doesn't make a Phone, & thats why Phone manufacturer make such software. You are publically saying that 3rd party developers shouldn't be there. Like you mentioned in one other thread that "Developers don't like to make Music player for Mac cos it comes with a wonderful software called iTunes from Apple already"  what a reason for not developing an app.


Yes, it is a great reason. Developers make applications because they want people to use their applications. But Mac users generally do not need alternatives for the programs that are there by default because unlike Windows, the default programs are spectacularly good. However, there are a few alternatives that do play WMA on a Mac starting with Windows Media Player itself (which is one of the crappiest programs on the Mac).
And you're excuse for Microsoft not bundling any support for synchronisation of phones is pathetic. If that is the case, Windows should not come with any hardware drives apart from those that are manufactured by Microsoft. The peripheral manufacturers should make their own drivers and the user should sit around installing them. Idiot!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Genuine Flaw in Mac again


That it does not have the same crap user interface conventions that Windows has? That it has a better interface? No, thanks! If we wanted to use Windows in the first place, we wouldn't have bothered with Mac OS X. If you do, uninstall it and get one with your life (if you have one).



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Its called Maximize in Windows. That middle button among the 3 buttons on top left.


I would have thought that you would at least have some knowledge about Windows even if your knowledge about Mac OS X (even after using it for a few days) is languishing at the bottom of the graph. I was wrong, unfortunately.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Restore, Resize from any side of a window...nope doesn't rings a bell in your head.


"There's Yahoo! OK, drag Internet Explorer to occupy 800 pixels. Great! OK, there's Microsoft, increase the size. Wait, it's Google now, decrease it. Idiot!"



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So, is that our fault that Apple isn't releasing MacOS X for general PCs when both Mac & PC are exectly same hardware wise.


Who is talking about you here? We are talking about sensible people who need to use some of the Mac OS X software and realise that Macs are the only computers that allow you to run every software in the world, reasons be damned.


Since you guys are no good, I can nominate another flaw in Mac OS X myself. You can only resize from one handle in the bottom right corner of windows. Flaw number six. Any more?



			
				kenshin1988 said:
			
		

> Old mac lover created a thread EIEIO
> and in his thread he invited his frnds EIEIO
> and a mac boy here and a fan boy there
> here a boy there a boy everywhere a fanboy
> ...


LOL! 

That is really funny and well composed.


----------



## iMav (May 17, 2007)

some people regret buying a mac and then go around the world trying to justify to themselves that their mac is better than the others by coming up with lame posts


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

LOL! Funniest post in the world. If there is only one expenditure I've ever done that I do not regret, it is buying my Mac.


----------



## blackleopard92 (May 17, 2007)

just a ques. do workstation graphics cards support macs?


----------



## gxsaurav (May 17, 2007)

Yawn : Good afternoon. 

Damn I need to eat an Apple a day to keep the sleep away 



> There's Yahoo! OK, drag Internet Explorer to occupy 800 pixels. Great! OK, there's Microsoft, increase the size. Wait, it's Google now, decrease it. Idiot!


Nope, the Windows is always maximised & all the content u need fits in it. Hye you still use 800X600 ?


> Even if PCs did come with Office installed, it would still defeat your primary argument in favour of Windows - our OS, the way we want it (which is a stupid argument in the first place).


I guess someone forgot to read again. The reason for me mentioning Office OEM in OEM PCs cos *you said OEM PCs do not come with outlook*. Well here is an eye opener for you they do come *by default* which you have an option not to select



> Yeah... let's see... I'll be back with this one. Enjoy till then! And if you consider yourself senior to me, LOL!, you must be on crack or something.


Ah....the sheer joy of newcomers disrespecting the oldies. . What else can we expect from you arya.



> Are you nuts! You did not even mention data cable anywhere. You said that since Macs come with Bluetooth built-in, you do not need to use external Bluetooth peripherals but the built-in Bluetooth is slow.


Quote from my post



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Mac has bluetooth device onboard in the hardware, means no more using USB bluetooth stick. *However file transfer using bluetooth is slow. *My data cable of K750i isn't working to sync things thogh the memory card is visible.





			
				Me said:
			
		

> This just in, I need to attach my Mobile phone to Mac using *data cable.* Any idea arya? if you are able to connect your SE W500i then My K750i can also be added.


I think you have some reading or understanding problem.



> It is hardly my fault that your knowledge of the English language is 0.


I wonder arya, if you can speak english the way u write it 


> But Mac users generally do not need alternatives for the programs that are there by default because unlike Windows, the default programs are spectacularly good.


Lolz...go & show this statement to a developer.



> Who is talking about you here? We are talking about sensible people who need to use some of the Mac OS X software and realise that Macs are the only computers that allow you to run every software in the world, *reasons be damned.*


Reason is why we are talking in this forum. Unlike you, not everyone has filthy rich bank balence.


> LOL! Funniest post in the world. If there is only one expenditure I've ever done that I do not regret, it is buying my Mac.


We understand you pain arya, no need to justify to yourself that u made a good decision buying a Mac.



> Since you guys are no good, I can nominate another flaw in Mac OS X myself. You can only resize from one handle in the bottom right corner of windows. Flaw number six. Any more?





			
				Me said:
			
		

> Restore, Resize from any side of a window...nope doesn't rings a bell in your head.


That still doesn't rings a bell 

Oh well...guess that will be all for me today, got 2 classes & then some people to meet. buh bye.

Oh & in the end....another quote from one of my other posts


			
				Me said:
			
		

> At the end of the day it is us WIndows users using maximum ammount of 3rd party hardware. Maximum ammount of 3rd party softwarr. Games, the ability to run our OS the way we want to. We do not change ourself according to Windows, we change Windows according to our needs. Thats disection & ability to Mod our computer the way we want.



For more info on screwing Windows & Modding it compleately, Contact Vishal


----------



## shantanu (May 17, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> OK. You guys have found a fifth flaw. The shortcut for deleting files is 'Ctrl + Delete' instead of just Delete. Genius!



is it ? i thought it was shift+del (permanent delete)


----------



## nepcker (May 17, 2007)

So, Windows fanboys are having a hard time in finding OS X's fault. It is indeed difficult to find out the faults in something that is almost perfect.



			
				mav said:
			
		

> 3) Non-Standard keyboard shortcuts.


Two companies are offering two different operating systems. Which one would you call a "standard" one?



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Everything on Earth has shortcomings. BMW's cars have shortcomings too but it does not change the fact that they make the best cars. Mac OS X has shortcomings too - doesn't change the fact that it is the best operating system.


Sorry to get a little off-topic here, but even BMW agrees that their hardware runs better without windows. ("OUR HARDWARE RUNS BETTER WITHOUT WINDOWS" reads one of BMW's ads.) 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Mind looking at you own, or Nepckers sig.


At least, it doesn't read something like:
 "Windows can do everything Linux can do .... but neither can do what Mac OS X can!!!
Mac OS X might lack in no. of game titles available but atleast it has less restrictions in using special characters in file names"



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I just cooked Dal makhni, want to be my guinea pig...I mean, want to be my beta tester. Money back if you die .


Fine. You are the one who posts the lamest posts here.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> First, Photoshop uses sRGB color profile to show something on screen which you can change to CMYK if u want. Now you see the color as it will be printed.
> 
> In Vista (cos it is new) Go to control panel & search for color (a simple term) & it will give u an option to set a colour profile. Set any one you like & select "Set as default"
> 
> ...


Macs have accurate colour reproduction because of the use of a technology called ColorSync.



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> is it ? i thought it was shift+del (permanent delete)


It's the shortcut to delete files on Mac OS X. Shift+del is the shortcut for windows.


----------



## max_demon (May 17, 2007)

मैक ओएस एक्स सबका  गुरु है ।  लेकीन  एक सामान्य व्यिक्तय ( जीस् कंप्युटर के बारे मे कम आता है वो Wईण्ढ्ows Xp इस्तेमाल करते है ।)

समझदार लोग  मैक ओएस एक्स इस्तेमाल करते है ।


----------



## Third Eye (May 17, 2007)

Please mods lock this thread


----------



## iMav (May 17, 2007)

what happened to freedom of speech


----------



## nepcker (May 17, 2007)

@max_demon

Mac OS X is officially pronounced as "mac oh-es ten". The "X" in Mac OS X means the roman numeral ten.

But it is not completely wrong if you pronounce the "X" as the english alphabet X.


----------



## shantanu (May 17, 2007)

!


----------



## aryayush (May 17, 2007)

max_demon said:
			
		

> मैक ओएस एक्स सबका  गुरु है ।  लेकीन  एक सामान्य व्यिक्तय ( जीस् कंप्युटर के बारे मे कम आता है वो Wईण्ढ्ows Xp इस्तेमाल करते है ।)
> 
> समझदार लोग  मैक ओएस एक्स इस्तेमाल करते है ।


सौ सुनार की, एक लौहार की! तुम एकदम सत्य वचन कह रहे हो। मुझे इस बात की खुशी है कि इस फोरम मे कुछ 'विन्डोज़ युज़र्स' भी अपने दिमाग का इस्तेमाल करते है। धन्यवाद!


----------



## iMav (May 17, 2007)

yeh toh do rishi muni baat kar rahen hai usmein hum insaan kya bolen


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

[FONT=&quot]Yawn....3 classes, damn I need some sleep.

Hmm...time to let the thread die with no reply. We never intended to fight. Who gives a damn to an internet challenge

Finally, fixed the startup problem. & Boy, Plethora of flaws here. I am going to sleep so just few flaws which i will mention here.

1) In Vista or Ubuntu we can get info about a file or folder just by mouse hovering on it. Info such as File name, type, size etc. In Mac we cannot. We just cannot. Selecting the disk in finder also doesn't show any file info in status bar unless i right click on it to select "Get info"

2) I have a folder, inside that I again have a folder inside which I have some files. How do u copy them to the previous folder?  . In Windows Linux I can simply cut, go back or go one up level & paste. Now here I have to copy go back, paste then go forward & delete from the original location.

3) Preview sux, literally for images. I need an image viewer with "Back" forward buttons. Arya refer me to some ACDSee clone or XNView clone.

4) Adium is good for Google talk, for WLM use MSN Messenger from MS.

5) Who ever said installing application in Mac is easy should get his eyes checked. It is just like Windows, next next next. It even asked me to enter user password while installing MacFUSE

6) Safari is very new & hardly customizable. I am going to Firefox till i learn safari.

7) Just saw the Mac UI font. Installed Segoe UI in 2 mins using Fontbook. Phew...something familier.

I prefer exiting apps instead of closing. So Winkey + Q is holy grail

Hey arya, is there some app using which I can change all MacOS X keyboard commands to that of Windows. I am a keyboard guy & hardly use mouse. Can't live with enter key which now renames. What is the "Execute key" in Mac? 

[/FONT]

Some screenshots

*img489.imageshack.us/img489/633/kalantrichatfv8.th.jpg

Old users will recognise this render.  Just for checking "Preview"

*img489.imageshack.us/img489/3985/previewzv4.th.jpg


----------



## iMav (May 18, 2007)

so did u use the manual method


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Finally, fixed the startup problem. & Boy,* Plethora of flaws here*. I am going to sleep so just few flaws which i will mention here.
> 
> 1) In Vista or Ubuntu we can get info about a file or folder just by mouse overing on it. Info like File name, type, size etc. In Mac we cannot. We just cannot. Selecting the disk in finder also doesn't show any file info in status bar unless i right click on it to select "Get info"


If I am not wrong, this is what you are looking for:

*www.tachypic.com/thumb/12609.jpeg

Use the column view. It is the most advanced one. You can even preview your movies right there in the Finder. Try doing that in Explorer.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 2)  I have a folder, inside that I again have a folder inside which I have some files. How do u copy tham to the previous folder ? . In Windows Linux I can simply cut, go back or go one up lavel & paste. Now here I have to copy go back, paste then go forward & delete from the original location.


Best way is to use the column view and drag your file to the previous column. Second way, if you insist on using the icon view, is to drag a file and hit 'Command + Up' on the keyboard and drop it. 'Command + Up' takes you to the parent folder.
And as I said before, don't try to make it sound like Mac OS X does not have the cut-paste functionality at all. It is just not there between drives but is omnipresent apart from that.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 3) Preview sux, littrally for images. I need an image viewer with "Back" forward buttons. Arya refer me to some ACDSee clone or XNView clone.


Select you images together and open them. Now use the up and down buttons to navigate between all the images or navigate directly to the ones you want from the drawer.
In the preferences, you can set it to open all images in one window. So individual images won't open in individual windows and then you can use the arrow keys or the mouse.
And think before you speak, will you? Preview is one of the most advanced utilities on Mac OS X. You can view and edit all sorts of images and every Adobe forumat out there including (but not limited to) PDFs and Photoshop and Illustrator files. Try doing that in Windows Picture and Fax viewer.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 4) Adium is good for google talk, for WLM use MSN Messenger from MS.


This is supposed to be a one of the "plethora of flaws"?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 5) Who ever said installing application in Mac is easy should get his eyes checked. It is just like Windows, next next next. It even asked me to enter user password while installing MacFUSE


It is you who needs an eye (and if possible, even a brain) checkup. If you expect to install a whole file system without expecting the operating system to make sure that some kid is not hitting return on the keyboard while you are away - well, you are too far gone into Windows hell to ever have any hope for redemption or survival.
As for applications installation being just like Windows, please tell everybody here how you installed Adium. Or VLC. Or Skype. Most of the applications. Just copy and paste, right? Drag and drop.
I have forty four third-party applications installed on my Mac and only three of them had to be installed with an installer - Parallels, CrossOver and Adobe CS3. Throw in two extra for some plug-ins, etc. that I have installed over the course of the past eight months. Throw in three-four more if you want. I still have to see the face of an installed roughly once per month. I used to see three installers everyday one Windows. What's more, I cannot move my applications from the Program Files folder once they are installed, nor can  I have two copies of my applications for the same user.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 6) Safari is very new & hardly customisable. I am going to firefox till i learn safari


Safari supports plug-ins just like Firefox does and you can visit the site *www.pimpmysafari.com/ for plug-ins. In any case, it is hordes better than Internet Explorer.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 7) Just saw the Mac UI font. Installed Segoe UI in 2 mins using Fontbook. Phew...something familier.


Which brings me to another brilliant application bundled by default - FontBook. Even two minutes is stretching it. It hardly takes half a second to not only install a font using FontBook but group, manage and preview all your fonts. Try doing that in Windows.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I prefer exiting apps insted of closing. So Winkey + Q is holy grail


Yeah, Windows users are used to doing that due to the poor RAM management in Windows. You can let go of that convention in Mac OS X. I have fifteen applications running right now.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Hey arya, is there some app using which I can change all MacOS X keyboard commands to that of Windows. I am a keyboard guy & hardly use mouse. Can't live with enter key which now renames. What is the "Execute key" in Mac?


Command + O.
Yes, there are such applications. MacUpdate is your friend.

Uh... anyone see any of the promised "plethora of flaws" here? I was so excited that finally I would at least see one more drawback. No such luck, after all. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Old users will recognise this render.  Just for checking "Preview"
> 
> *img489.imageshack.us/img489/3985/previewzv4.th.jpg


Absolutely amazing render for a newbie to multimedia editing like me. Did you do it yourself? Good work. 

Back to the "plethora of flaws" now...

We're still stuck at five here. Oh, how I hate being stuck.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

Braking news: Due to a suddun power cut ( mayawati sux), MacOS X File system curropted & now I have to go to apple store again. Admit it or not but windows is better in this regard whatever happens NTFS hardly curropts.

Arya, check my blog, talk to old users about how I m your senior in & do some history research about me in this forum. That render is just a part of my Arena MM 4th sem project demo reel I made last year in 3Ds Max 9.


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

WOW! You cannot even except praise graciously. All you needed to say was thank you. 

And you are simply lying about that power cut thing.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

abe i m online by phone. cant u see the 450 words limit I wrote that post with.

 Lolz....Same thing happened with zeeshan. now what can i expect from u when u treat a flaw by saying "you r lying". I know it hurts macboys that the OS has flaws.

I gave you info cos u mocked me saying in other thread saying " u my senior, u must be joking". Well get a history check before u speak about someone. check my blog it might help u in learning 3Ds Max

good night. From tomorrow u won't be seeing me past 12 am anyway. I don't want to be a vampire


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> abe i m online by phone. cant u see the 450 words limit I wrote that post with.


Yeah, that is the first thing I do whenever I see a post on this forum. I paste it in TextEdit and count the number of characters it has. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz....Same thing happened with zeeshan. now what can i expect from u when u treat a flaw by saying "you r lying". I know it hurts macboys that the OS has flaws.


Everyone knows how big a liar you are. That Photoshop fiasco is not even a day old yet. Anyway, show me the proof that your hard drive corrupted when there was a power cut and Mac OS X was running. Show it.
And what happened with Zeeshan? 
I don't think he blatantly lies like you. He is sometimes misinformed, yes - but I have yet to see him lie.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

> Use the column view. It is the most advanced one. You can even preview your movies right there in the Finder. *Try doing that in Explorer.*



*img46.imageshack.us/img46/7479/windowspreviewjm9.th.jpg

  Did u mentioned something . Too bad Windows has been showing preview of Images & Movie files since Windows ME. You can add any file to preview in Explorer itself using simple plug-in based mechanism. I have myself added PDF & PSD Preview by simply using plug-in available on MSDN.You can preview the whole video in it. Even seek the timeline. Watch before you say something cos now I can simply test it in Mac . Finder doesn't even has an address bar & GO->Go to location is not an address bar. It doesn't shows me the address at which I am.

    And No, I was not talking about preview of this kind. I was talking about tooltips. Mac has no tooltips whether it is on application toolbar buttons or folder mouse hover. If there is then tell me plz.



> Best way is to use the column view and drag your file to the previous column. Second way, if you insist on using the icon view, is to drag a file and hit 'Command + Up' on the keyboard and drop it. 'Command + Up' takes you to the parent folder.
> And as I said before, don't try to make it sound like Mac OS X does not have the cut-paste functionality at all. It is just not there between drives but is omnipresent apart from that.


Yo, I don’t have 3 hands 

  Arya, clearly you are lying now. I just checked myself. I made a folder in my Home drive “files”. Inside it I made another folder “Downloads” Now I copied a file in “Downloads”. These all folders are in Macintosh HD. Now I went to my downloads folder & tried to cut a file so that I can paste it back to files folder. Here is an eye opener, despite of both Files & downloads folder being on same Mac HD there was no cut option. Want me to show u a video now . This is where we say we were reveling the truth.



> Select you images together and open them. Now use the up and down buttons to navigate between all the images or navigate directly to the ones you want from the drawer.
> In the preferences, you can set it to open all images in one window. So individual images won't open in individual windows and then you can use the arrow keys or the mouse. *Try doing that in Windows Picture and Fax viewer*.


I need a photo viewer & manager & I don’t have iPhoto here. Mind giving me a proper photo manager? Preview just sux. I don’t want to write about why ACDSee or Windows Photo gallery is better than “Preview” right now else the post will be too long. I hope you don’t comment back saying “oh pwned” cos I can pwn u easily in this regard.

  And yes, using Windows Image engine plug-in, you can add any file format to the supported file formats in Windows Vista photo gallery. I am myself viewing RAW Files of digital camera & PSD in photo gallery itself using plug-in easily available from Microsoft.



> I cannot move my applications from the Program Files folder once they are installed, nor can I have two copies of my applications for the same user.



  That’s how things are done in Windows.  A centralized shared location for all your installations. Unlike Mac. And why do you want to have* 2 copies of same app for same user*  



> In any case, it is hordes better than Internet Explorer.


About the so called “zoom” feature for Mac. Here is the thing. With automatic zoom safari & firefox were going out of my monitor screen when I opened some pages  & I had to go to that green zoom button again to zoom it back to normal for every page. You mentioned in another page that you need to resize for IE 7 in Windows, here is an eye opener. In Windows you just maximize apps……in Mac, there are many windows set at weird location. Some going below half the dock.



> Which brings me to another brilliant application bundled by default - FontBook. Even two minutes is stretching it. It hardly takes half a second to not only install a font using FontBook but group, manage and preview all your fonts. *Try doing that in Windows.*


I wonder how u once lied “ I m using windows from 6 years & m quite proficient in it” when you have not even seen the *fonts folder in Windows* 

  Installing a font, simply copy it to fonts folder
  Uninstalling a font , simply delete it
  Preview a font, simply double click on it.
  In windows font is just a file like any other file & you can do whatever you want with it.



> Yeah, Windows users are used to doing that due to the poor RAM management in Windows. You can let go of that convention in Mac OS X. I have fifteen applications running right now.


Poor RAM Management, search on wikipedia for Superfetch boy. I got 1 render in 3ds max running, MSN messenger running, Yahoo messenger running & Firefox running. Oh! Just to tell you 3ds max rendering choke the full CPU speed.



> Yes, there are such applications. MacUpdate is your friend.


   I searched, didn’t find any. Refer me plz 



> Uh... anyone see any of the promised "plethora of flaws" here? I was so excited that finally I would at least see one more drawback. No such luck, after all.


How can you see flaws with a white plastic sheet on your eyes. I just pointed out Tooltip flaw, Cut flaw…address bar flaw, go back toolbar button flaw but you didn’t see any of it.



> Everyone knows how big a liar you are. That Photoshop fiasco is not even a day old yet. Anyway, show me the proof that your hard drive corrupted when there was a power cut and Mac OS X was running. Show it.


Every one also knows how big blind repenting mac boy you r. **** just happened with me, reinstalled Mac OS again. Besides I never lied about Photoshop colour management, you should start Photoshop in Windows & check it yourself how colour management is done. You were the one who said "i will get back to you on this tomorrow". First get your facts straight.

  Anyway, that would be all. I m not getting paid to do a review so why bother. When you have no respect for bug finding & feel that despite of having bugs the OS is unflawed then trust me, Mac OS will always be feature full. It doesn’t even comes with a proper photo manager (*iphoto comes with iLife, not MacOS*). When I wrote that usability review of Ubuntu, the Linux users admited the flaws of Linux sincerly (though not everyone) & helped. They want to improve, but Mac users act like smugs & think they are perfect. I wasted 2 days in trying to reveal some genuine flaws which Macboys say don't exist. Well, anyone who wants to use MacOS in the nearest Apple shop can contact me  & check for themselves how it is.

By the way, my airtel modem hangs after working for 5 mins in Mac. & I need to reboot the modem by power off & power on. Any idea why this is happening. Everything like my username password, forwarded port is saved in Modem itself, & if i have to use it, i just install the drivers in any OS & it works fine. Like if I reinstall Windows or boot via Linux Live CD I just install the modem drivers & everything works. In Mac it hangs, help regarding this. Where is the modem option

Only my gf is perfect


----------



## Sukhdeep Singh (May 18, 2007)

I dont know, how far this is true. I went to Keepvid.com today and Today Hot Videos was * "Why Mac Suck"* 

*keepvid.com/watch/3

I am not here for a fight, just want to hear how far that guy is true.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 18, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> And what happened with Zeeshan?


 don't know if my Hdd corrupted or what , but there was a power cut n i was running mac with UPS n then UPS gave away ,  n computer shut down n next time i started Mac it only showed "Loading Darwin x86 ..." n then stuck at that , no error message whatsoever .

btw Arya , how do we switch to verbose mode in boot loader while booting ? (u know naa , like showing what files r being loaded , etc , etc , in place of Apple Logo)


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

Zeeshan

When MacOS X boot, press F8 key & then type -v


----------



## Kiran.dks (May 18, 2007)

OMG! I wonder how do u people manage to write such lengthy posts! Great work.

Coming to the point...

One more point to highlight regarding "Mac Vs Windows".

*Apple doesn't ship free video editing tool. iMovie is shipped only with MacOS X but one need to pay a hefty amount to use it in older versions.* 

Vs.
*
Microsoft includes Windows Movie Maker as a part of Windows package itself.*


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

@ KTM

Yup, another flaw which they don't except saying "Mac comes with iLife". Here is the thing, even dell comes with Ulead Video studio or Premiere Elements OEM.

Some more flaws.

1) Safari's inbuilt download manager doesn't support proper download resume. If I Quit safari, the download will need to be restarted. Well, no hard feelings even IE & Firefox have near useless download manager. I m using Speed downloader right now, cos well...it is better then Wellget.

I just miss my widgets, just downloaded Yahoo widget engine. Dashboard is not for me, it just doesn't cuts it.

Now I know why Mac came up with Expose. Due to palated UI you end up with so many windows that cycleing through them using command+tab & cycleing through different windows of a single app using command + ` is tough, so Expose....everything on the screen.

Since we do not face the problem of palated UI in Windows, good thing it is not there.

Keychain doesn't integrates with firefox. Not a flaw, obviously Apple won't let a competing browser work with there software just like that. Safari needs an edge over firefox, right.

Quicktime now plays divX file properly after downloading the divx decoder. The persuit is still on for a proper wma audio player.

And seriously, MacOS is just not made with keybaord in mind. Sometimes simple task need 4 keyboard shortcuts. 

And thanx to iMav, atleast he told me about drag & drop in folder nevigation which surely the Mac genius missed to point out. Click on a folder, then press the Option key & then drag the folder anywhere to move it. You can drag that folder to the finder sidebar to reach the Home folder ain, on which if you mouse over, it will open. Then do the same for "files" folder & put it there.

Hey seriously Macboys, help regarding my Airtel modem. It connects through DHCP & every info is saved in modem only. In case of Windows/linux I don't need to configure anything. Just install drive & it works. It is connected via USB.


----------



## max_demon (May 18, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> सौ सुनार की, एक लौहार की! तुम एकदम सत्य वचन कह रहे हो। मुझे इस बात की खुशी है कि इस फोरम मे कुछ 'विन्डोज़ युज़र्स' भी अपने दिमाग का इस्तेमाल करते है। धन्यवाद!


लिनुx और विन्डोज़ युज़र् । नोर्मली मैं लिनुx इस्तेमाल करता हुं । XP सिर्फ़् ऱ्&ढ् और Sओफ़्ट्wअरे  इन्स्टाल् कर्ने के लीये . और कभी कभी टुन्न् होने की भी ज़रुरत पडटी है । (Wine)

Vista सिर्फ़् Exपेरिमेन्ट् के लिय इन्स्टाल् कीया था ।


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *img46.imageshack.us/img46/7479/windowspreviewjm9.th.jpg
> 
> Did u mentioned something . Too bad Windows has been showing preview of Images & Movie files since Windows ME. You can add any file to preview in Explorer itself using simple plug-in based mechanism. I have myself added PDF & PSD Preview by simply using plug-in available on MSDN.You can preview the whole video in it. Even seek the timeline. Watch before you say something cos now I can simply test it in Mac .


What is not there by default is not a feature.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Finder doesn't even has an address bar & GO->Go to location is not an address bar. It doesn't shows me the address at which I am.


What do you need the address bar for?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And No, I was not talking about preview of this kind. I was talking about tooltips. Mac has no tooltips whether it is on application toolbar buttons or folder mouse hover. If there is then tell me plz.


No, this is not Windows, this is Mac OS X. There are some user interface conventions. Mac OS X does not use tooltips like Windows and it is certainly not a drawback. In the view options in the Finder ('Command + J'), you can set it to "Show item info". After that the Finder will show you the number of files in folders in the icon view. This is what appears on the tooltip in Windows. Of course, the best is the column view which shows you all the files and the preview. Mac OS X is not Windows and if it starts behaving like Windows, _that_ will be a drawback. Tooltips are so annoying that you have an option in AutoPatcher to turn them off. Of course, it is a matter of preference. I am not saying either method is wrong, but yes, I certainly miss the Column view of the Finder when I am forced to use Windows on other people's computers.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yo, I don’t have 3 hands


Dragging a file from one column to another takes only one hand, at least for a human being.
Dragging a file and hitting the shortcut 'Command + Up' (the two buttons are really close on the right hand side of the keyboard) takes only two hands if you are normally equipped by God.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Arya, clearly you are lying now. I just checked myself. I made a folder in my Home drive “files”. Inside it I made another folder “Downloads” Now I copied a file in “Downloads”. These all folders are in Macintosh HD. Now I went to my downloads folder & tried to cut a file so that I can paste it back to files folder. Here is an eye opener, despite of both Files & downloads folder being on same Mac HD there was no cut option. Want me to show u a video now . This is where we say we were reveling the truth.


First of all, I _never_ lie. Out of the nearly three thousand posts I have on this forum, if you can find me one where I lied, I'll do whatever you ask me to. (Of course, I might make some mistakes sometimes like saying that the iSight camera works with a PC, but I have never lied purposely.)
As for the topic at hand, I said that the Finder has the "cut-paste functionality". I know, and you know, that the Cut option under the Edit menu does not work. You have to use drag and drop, and I prefer that.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Preview just sux. I don’t want to write about why ACDSee or Windows Photo gallery is better than “Preview” right now else the post will be too long. I hope you don’t comment back saying “oh pwned” cos I can pwn u easily in this regard.


Preview is meant for previewing your images and PDFs, not managing them. It is not a photo managing application. It serves one purpose and does that spectacularly well.
As for the Mac OS not having a photo managing application, if you are using a Mac at your nearest Apple Store, you'll see iPhoto right there in the dock. I have the Mac OS X install discs that came with my notebook and the whole of iLife is there on it. Any person on this forum who buys a Mac gets iLife along with it. It is not for Apple to make sure that those who pirate their operating system get the full benefit of it. Anyway, since you are already pirating the operating system, you might as well pirate iLife too and use it. Either way, I don't give a damn.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And yes, using Windows Image engine plug-in, you can add any file format to the supported file formats in Windows Vista photo gallery. I am myself viewing RAW Files of digital camera & PSD in photo gallery itself using plug-in easily available from Microsoft.


What is not there by default is not a feature.




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> That’s how things are done in Windows.  A centralized shared location for all your installations.


I have had many a moment of grief as a Windows user when I wanted to move an application from the Program Files folder and I had to uninstall it, re-download the installer and then re-install it elsewhere. If Windows does not do it, you do not need it. Logic at its best!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Unlike Mac.


What is the Applications folder for then? It is also "a centralized shared location for all your" applications.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And why do you want to have* 2 copies of same app for same user*


I have an applications TubeSock that downloads YouTube videos but it downloads only one at a time. All I had to do was press the option key and drag the application and leave it to make a copy of it. Or right click on it and select 'Duplicate'. Now I could run both of them at once and download two videos together. I can make multiple instances of Yahoo! Messenger for use with various accounts and a copy or two of VLC to play two-three videos simultaneously.
Oh, I can think of a lot of uses for this feature already. We are discussing the drawbacks in Mac OS X here and are tearing apart Windows' shortcomings instead because it is hard to do so for Mac OS X.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> About the so called “zoom” feature for Mac. Here is the thing. With automatic zoom safari & firefox were going out of my monitor screen when I opened some pages  & I had to go to that green zoom button again to zoom it back to normal for every page. You mentioned in another page that you need to resize for IE 7 in Windows, here is an eye opener. In Windows you just maximize apps……in Mac, there are many windows set at weird location. Some going below half the dock.


No windows ever go below the dock unless you move them to such a position. It was a bug in previous versions of Mac OS X but Apple has fixed it in Tiger.
As for the zoom and maximise thing, like I said, you can always drag a window to stretch over the whole screen and then use it. It won't become small again. But I prefer to do a lot of things at once, thank you very much.



			
				gx_sauav said:
			
		

> I wonder how u once lied “ I m using windows from 6 years & m quite proficient in it” when you have not even seen the *fonts folder in Windows*
> 
> Installing a font, simply copy it to fonts folder
> Uninstalling a font , simply delete it
> ...


Oh, I know all about the fonts folder and it is one of the reasons why the Mac OS X approach is so superior to it. FontBook is such a nifty application - you can preview your fonts at all sizes, view all the different variations of it, group and manage your fonts under several categories, disable certain fonts, keep track of the ones that were there by default and the ones that you installed yourself, you can validate your fonts and font files that you haven't even installed yet, view all the detailed info about the fonts individually, remove duplicates... I could go on. Installing fonts only requires you to double click on them.
I would've thought that being into graphic designing, etc. yourself, you would at least have some sense of what a wonderful utility it is.
Oh, and BTW, if someone needs to do it the sucky Windows way, there is the same sort of Fonts folder in the Library. You can access it from the FontBook application to. Needless to say, I haven't even seen that folder yet.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Poor RAM Management, search on wikipedia for Superfetch boy.


SuperFetch has come in Windows Vista but of course you are used to not multi-tasking from your Windows XP days.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> How can you see flaws with a white plastic sheet on your eyes. I just pointed out Tooltip flaw, Cut flaw…address bar flaw, go back toolbar button flaw but you didn’t see any of it.


Tooltip - Not behaving like Windows is a virtue, not a flaw.
Cut - Already accepted that this is a flaw.
Address bar - You need to tell me why you need it.
Go back toolbar button - Command + Up. This does the job. But if you need to do so, you can right click on the toolbar in Finder, select the option 'Customize Toolbar...' and drag the 'Path' button onto the toolbar.

It is no surprise that I don't see any flaws when there aren't any listed by you to be seen.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Every one also knows how big blind repenting mac boy you r. **** just happened with me, reinstalled Mac OS again.


No, you didn't. You wouldn't. You hate the operating system. If it was being such a bother, you wouldn't have gone through the pain of sitting around and re-installing it.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> By the way, my airtel modem hangs after working for 5 mins in Mac. & I need to reboot the modem by power off & power on. Any idea why this is happening. Everything like my username password, forwarded port is saved in Modem itself, & if i have to use it, i just install the drivers in any OS & it works fine. Like if I reinstall Windows or boot via Linux Live CD I just install the modem drivers & everything works. In Mac it hangs, help regarding this. Where is the modem option


When I use the BSNL DataOne modem, all I needed to do was connect it, enter the user name and password and it was connected. It keeps disconnecting when I am using XP or Vista and I used to complain to them a lot about it and they even changed my modem once, but it kept disconnecting every fifteen minutes or so. And it never disconnects while being used with Mac OS X. I don't even know what the problem is but as long as it works fine with Mac OS X, I don't have a problem.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup, another flaw which they don't except saying "Mac comes with iLife". Here is the thing, even dell comes with Ulead Video studio or Premiere Elements OEM.


Like I said, it is hardly Apple's fault that you are using a pirated version of the operating system without buying a Mac. There is no retail version of Mac OS X for Intel Macs available today. Anyone who buys a Mac gets iLife with it. So, if Apple does not bundled iLife's next version with Leopard, then we it will be a huge drawback. Till then, it is not. You get iLife if you buy a Mac and you cannot buy Mac OS X without a Mac. So there is no way you can get Mac OS X without iLife.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) Safari's inbuilt download manager doesn't support proper download resume. If I Quit safari, the download will need to be restarted. Well, no hard feelings even IE & Firefox have near useless download manager.


No, I just tested it. I started downloading Windows Media Player from Microsoft's website and I stopped the download and quit Safari when it had downloaded 348 KB. I then launched Safari again and when I clicked on 'Resume', it resumed the download from that point onwards. Maybe the thing you were downloading did not support download resume.
And while we are on the subject, I just have to mention something amazing about Safari's downloading. I was downloading a file from RapidShare once that was about 98 MB in size. After a little while I forgot all about the download and like I generally do, simple hit the power button and hit enter to shut down the machine with all the applications open. I immediately remembered the Safari download and cursed myself. But just then, a window popped up (and if I remember correctly, it had a countdown thing... though I am not sure about that) asking me whether I really wanted to shut down which would stop my current unfinished download. I was so thrilled. I just cancelled it and waited for Safari to finish downloading the file and then shut down my machine. This is called intuitiveness, impeccable good software design.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I just miss my widgets, just downloaded Yahoo widget engine. Dashboard is not for me, it just doesn't cuts it.


There are more than three thousand Dashboard widgets out there in ever shape and size imaginable. Which widget didn't you find?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Now I know why Mac came up with Expose. Due to palated UI you end up with so many windows that cycleing through them using command+tab & cycleing through different windows of a single app using command + ` is tough, so Expose....everything on the screen.


Whatever. You say that like it is a bad thing. There are all sorts of window management features in Mac OS X - with the keyboard, the mouse or even without any of them (well, you sill need to drag the mouse though). Exposé is the best feature ever on any operating system.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Since we do not face the problem of palated UI in Windows, good thing it is not there.


Blah, blah, blah. "Since Microsoft cannot design a good user interface, let's bark the loudest to justify it!"



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Keychain doesn't integrates with firefox. Not a flaw, obviously Apple won't let a competing browser work with there software just like that. Safari needs an edge over firefox, right.


Wrong. Camino, Shiira and OmniWeb all integrate with Keychain Access. It is up to the developer to integrate Keychain Access with their applications, not Apple. And it is up to the user to switch to better web browsing alternatives when they switch to a better operating system. If you insist on sticking with a browser that has as horrible and un-Mac-like an interface as Firefox's, Apple cannot do much for you anyway.



			
				gx_surav said:
			
		

> And seriously, MacOS is just not made with keybaord in mind. Sometimes simple task need 4 keyboard shortcuts.


First of all, I have yet to find something that I need keyboard shortcuts for and they are not there by default. Second, if I ever need to add a keyboard shortcut for any feature in any application, it is extremely easy to do so. So I don't have any idea what you are complaining about here.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And thanx to iMav, atleast he told me about drag & drop in folder nevigation which surely the Mac genius missed to point out. Click on a folder, then press the Option key & then drag the folder anywhere to move it. You can drag that folder to the finder sidebar to reach the Home folder ain, on which if you mouse over, it will open. Then do the same for "files" folder & put it there.


You've got it all wrong. No wonder you guys are so screwed up.
Pressing the option key and dragging something will create a copy of that application in the new place or even in the same folder. For moving a file/folder, you simply need to drag it. Do not press the option key. Basically, option-drag is copy-paste and drag is cut-paste.
When you drag a file/folder over any folder (or the items in the sidebar or on any window when Exposé is active), press the space bar key to go further into that folder (it will automatically spring open after a few seconds if you hover the mouse over it).
Dragging something to the sidebar will make a virtual alias for it in the sidebar so that you have quick access to it.
Is it clear now?

At the end of the day, we're still stuck at five drawbacks. If gx_saurav gives us a good reason why he needs the address bar, we might even have six. What an achievement! 

BTW, I'll find a keyboard utility and a WMA player for you. I searched on MacUpdate but it does not seem to be there. I'll need to ask in some Apple forum.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

> What is not there by default is not a feature.


AVI, MPG JPG BMP PNG TIFF Preview is there by default. If you install any directshow compatible decoder in your Vista based computer the format is automatically assigned for Preview like this. I guess you felt pwned so you replied like that . If you install Photoshop CS3 in Vista, guess what. PSD is also in preview now.


> What do you need the address bar for?


:ROFL: Why do U need MacOS for when Vista does everything at a really cheap price cos it runs on 4 years old hardware fine.



> No windows ever go below the dock unless you move them to such a position. It was a bug in previous versions of Mac OS X but Apple has fixed it in Tiger.
> As for the zoom and maximise thing, like I said, you can always drag a window to stretch over the whole screen and then use it. It won't become small again. But I prefer to do a lot of things at once, thank you very much.


I just pressed Zoom, & took a screenshot. See for yourself. 

*img514.imageshack.us/img514/5710/untitledcq3.th.jpg



> First of all, I _never_ lie. Out of the nearly three thousand posts I have on this forum, if you can find me one where I lied, I'll do whatever you ask me to. (Of course, I might make some mistakes sometimes like saying that the iSight camera works with a PC, but I have never lied purposely.)


I hope you are not drunk. First you say you don't lie then u say u don't lie on prupose. Hey who said Mac is using EFI since 2001 , while EFI was in developement since 1991.



> s for the Mac OS not having a photo managing application, if you are using a Mac at your nearest Apple Store, you'll see iPhoto right there in the dock. I have the Mac OS X install discs that came with my notebook and the whole of iLife is there on it. Any person on this forum who buys a Mac gets iLife along with it. It is not for Apple to make sure that those who pirate their operating system get the full benefit of it. Anyway, since you are already pirating the operating system, you might as well pirate iLife too and use it. Either way, I don't give a damn.


What is not there by default is not a feature. Vista has an edge here. It comes with Windows Photo Gallery which is a Photo viewer & Photo manager. Unlike Mac which requirs you to pay $70 just to get a Photo Management application. (iPhoto) MacOS has no Photo Management application, Windows has. Even Ubuntu had Fspot.



> There are more than three thousand Dashboard widgets out there in ever shape and size imaginable. Which widget didn't you find?


None for dashboard . Yahoo Widgets zindabad



> Oh, I know all about the fonts folder and it is one of the reasons why the Mac OS X approach is so superior to it. FontBook is such a nifty application - you can preview your fonts at all sizes, view all the different variations of it, group and manage your fonts under several categories, disable certain fonts, keep track of the ones that were there by default and the ones that you installed yourself, you can validate your fonts and font files that you haven't even installed yet, view all the detailed info about the fonts individually, remove duplicates... I could go on. Installing fonts only requires you to double click on them.
> I would've thought that being into graphic designing, etc. yourself, you would at least have some sense of what a wonderful utility it is.
> Oh, and BTW, if someone needs to do it the sucky Windows way, there is the same sort of Fonts folder in the Library. You can access it from the Font


Copy & Paste in Windows. Simple. Next....you don't even admit there is a flaw 


> SuperFetch has come in Windows Vista but of course you are used to not multi-tasking from your Windows XP days


Isn't this thread about MacOS X & Vista . Oh & do u mean windows XP users were not able to multitask...lolz....how many things u did on Windows boy?


> Blah, blah, blah. "Since Microsoft cannot design a good user interface, let's bark the loudest to justify it!"


You are the first one who is saying a cluttered UI which many Windows open on screen which you don't even need is a good thing . Again, you will do anything to justify Mac.



> When I use the BSNL DataOne modem, all I needed to do was connect it, enter the user name and password and it was connected. It keeps disconnecting when I am using XP or Vista and I used to complain to them a lot about it and they even changed my modem once, but it kept disconnecting every fifteen minutes or so. And it never disconnects while being used with Mac OS X. I don't even know what the problem is but as long as it works fine with Mac OS X, I don't have a problem.


Like I said above, i need help in this regard not flameish talks. My password settings etc are in the Modem. In case of Window I don't need to do anything like entering the password or settign whether it is DHCP or PPPoE. Everything is already set inside modem. I just install the drive in case of both BSNL & Airtel modem & it works.



> First of all, I have yet to find something that I need keyboard shortcuts for and they are not there by default. Second, if I ever need to add a keyboard shortcut for any feature in any application, it is extremely easy to do so. So I don't have any idea what you are complaining about here.


Tell me about it. I cannot change the keyboard shortcuts like in Windows Vista charecater mapper. I tried changing command+shift+3 to Print screen key & it won't let me. KeyCue is helping a lot right now but then again It is a 3rd party app.



> At the end of the day, we're still stuck at five drawbacks. If gx_saurav gives us a good reason why he needs the address bar, we might even have six. What an achievement!
> 
> BTW, I'll find a keyboard utility and a WMA player for you. I searched on MacUpdate but it does not seem to be there. I'll need to ask in some Apple forum.


I just gave u 3 more. Lack of a photo manager, Windows going out of order...unability to resize windows from any side. How many did you admited ? Whats the point of giving flaws when you won't even admit.

Hey arya, Windows Vista also has no flaws. Virus do not come automatically, they need user interaction. It is not the fault of MS that user clicked on a Link saying "Free Viagra".

Do find me a Media Player. VLC Player now crashes here while playing a video. Now quicktime does playes DivX & WMV/WMA but it is not an audio player.

Oh wait, don't bother......I won't be using Mac beyond 8 pm tonight. . Just can't live with a cluttered UI having so many windows on screen when I only *need to see *2.

Here is an example.

Windows Vista. I have 3 firefox WIndows open, 2 explorer 1 photoshop & acdsee windows. Now I can simply use a single key combination to switch to any of it. Alt+Tab

MacOS X. I have same number of Windows open. To switch to firefox or finder or preview use command+tab. Now to switch between 3 firefox windows use command+`. 

Which one is better ?

The problem with Macboys, they are in a misconception that there OS is flawless. Well, there is no remedy to stupidity & ignorence.

End of thread from my Side . MacOS X is good on a Mac, for kids who want to see flashy things & have a lot of time to waste arguing on forums. Those who want ptrductivity the way they want will use Windows. 

Arya trust me, you will sure get a job in Apple India as the marketing manager. . You are the best damn salesman of an OS I have ever seen. Or better yet, some mac guy must be watching this forum & he will sure appoint as a Mac genius in the nearest Apple store without caring that you have 0 hardware or software knowledge. Well....you are good in whining & marketing a flawed product na....well thats enough to get a job in Apple.


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> AVI, MPG JPG BMP PNG TIFF Preview is there by default. If you install any directshow compatible decoder in your Vista based computer the format is automatically assigned for Preview like this. I guess you felt pwned so you replied like that . If you install Photoshop CS3 in Vista, guess what. PSD is also in preview now.


No, you cannot. Adobe CS3 comes with the option of using the Adobe Dialog so that you can preview your files. You cannot preview them in Explorer. And Adobe CS3 costs more than one lac.
Nor can you preview AVI and MPG files.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> :ROFL: Why do U need MacOS for when Vista does everything at a really cheap price cos it runs on 4 years old hardware fine.


Answer the question instead of behaving like a freak. Why do you need the address bar?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I just pressed Zoom, & took a screenshot. See for yourself.
> 
> *img514.imageshack.us/img514/5710/untitledcq3.th.jpg


You dragged the window below the dock and took a screenshot, loser. Show me a little video of you pressing the zoom button and the window goig below the level of the dock. (I know you will either say that you don't have time to do this and what not, or will ignore this now. I'm well accustomed to this defensive behaviour by now.)



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> What is not there by default is not a feature. Vista has an edge here. It comes with Windows Photo Gallery which is a Photo viewer & Photo manager. Unlike Mac which requirs you to pay $70 just to get a Photo Management application. (iPhoto) MacOS has no Photo Management application, Windows has. Even Ubuntu had Fspot.


Every Mac on the planet comes with iPhoto by default. Try buying Mac OS X without iPhoto if you can please!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Copy & Paste in Windows. Simple. Next....you don't even admit there is a flaw


This guy is either officially a complete nutter or he has been used to using crap for so long, better things do not appeal to him now. Copying and pasting a file is easier than double clicking on it. Even a newbie can install a font on Mac OS X, not so on Windows. And more importantly, FontBook is a total blessing for doing all the font related tasks. Bleeagh, who have I indulged myself with!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You are the first one who is saying a cluttered UI which many Windows open on screen *which you don't even need* is a good thing . Again, you will do anything to justify Mac.


Well, sensible people close the windows they do not need. People like you keep them open and then complain about them.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Tell me about it. I cannot change the keyboard shortcuts like in Windows Vista charecater mapper. I tried changing command+shift+3 to Print screen key & it won't let me. KeyCue is helping a lot right now but then again It is a 3rd party app.


You have to use one other key with a modifier key. You cannot have single button shortcuts. Another drawback, I suppose. This makes six.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I just gave u 3 more. Lack of a photo manager, Windows going out of order...unability to resize windows from any side. How many did you admited ? Whats the point of giving flaws when you won't even admit.


Lack of photo manager = What lack! We have iPhoto.
Windows getting out of order = You purposely dragged it below the level of the dock. It is impossible that any window would do that.
unability [sic] to resize windows from any side = The fifth drawback, remember? This was the one.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Oh wait, don't bother......I won't be using Mac beyond 8 pm tonight. . Just can't live with a cluttered UI having so many windows on screen when I only *need to see *2.


Good riddance. If you try to make a person sleep on a rosy bed who is used to sleeping on roads for too long, he will spurn at you and the bed. Go back to your dirtbag of an operating system and try to never show your face in these parts again.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Windows Vista. I have 3 firefox WIndows open, 2 explorer 1 photoshop & acdsee windows. Now I can simply use a single key combination to switch to any of it. Alt+Tab
> 
> MacOS X. I have same number of Windows open. To switch to firefox or finder or preview use command+tab. Now to switch between 3 firefox windows use command+`.
> 
> Which one is better ?


Neither. Press F9 and choose any window you want, that is the best. And that is there on Mac OS X. We call it Exposé.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> The problem with Macboys, they are in a misconception that there OS is flawless. Well, there is no remedy to stupidity & ignorence.


Which is why you've been exhibiting these qualities for as long as I can remember and can never be cured of them.

At the end of the whole saga, we've come out we six flaws in the operating system:
1. Lack of the ability to cut and paste files/folders between drives.
2. Lack of support for the WMA format in iTunes.
3. The looks of the operating system aren't customisable by default.
4. No fullscreen option in QuickTime unless you buy the Pro version (what were they thinking!).
5. You can only resize windows from the lower right hand corner.
6. Is not very flexible with keyboard shortcuts.


----------



## eddie (May 18, 2007)

max_demon said:
			
		

> लिनुx और विन्डोज़ युज़र् । नोर्मली मैं लिनुx इस्तेमाल करता हुं । XP सिर्फ़् ऱ्&ढ् और Sओफ़्ट्wअरे  इन्स्टाल् कर्ने के लीये . और कभी कभी टुन्न् होने की भी ज़रुरत पडटी है । (Wine)
> 
> Vista सिर्फ़् Exपेरिमेन्ट् के लिय इन्स्टाल् कीया था ।


 AFAIK the language of the forum is English. If every Indian starts to post in his/her regional language then this forum will become a mess. Time to change your style?


----------



## blackleopard92 (May 18, 2007)

couldn't stop myself, so


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> This guy is either officially a complete nutter or he has been used to using crap for so long, better things do not appeal to him now. Copying and pasting a file is easier than double clicking on it. Even a newbie can install a font on Mac OS X, not so on Windows. And more importantly, FontBook is a total blessing for doing all the font related tasks. Bleeagh, who have I indulged myself with!



rt click font and select install. easy.
double click to preview. How easy is that!



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Well, sensible people close the windows they do not need. People like you keep them open and then complain about them.


efficient people need to switch between windows as quickly as possible, rather than close and open them again and again


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

I will only Post to whats relevent.



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> No, you cannot. Adobe CS3 comes with the option of using the *Adobe Dialog *so that you can preview your files. *You cannot preview them in Explorer*. And Adobe CS3 costs more than one lac.
> * Nor can you preview AVI and MPG files*.


That would be Adobe Bridge.

Then what the hell M i doing  by using the Photoshop Preview control in Windows Vista available at MSDN & Google search

:ROFL: Arya, look at that screenshot What do u think I m playing in that screenshot ? A HD Rip of Heroes Episode 18. That is a DivX AVI. Stop acting ignorent & lying when you have the proof in front of you.



> Answer the question instead of behaving like a freak. Why do you need the address bar?


I find nevigating using the breadcrumb bar easy, also I can simply copy the address given in address bar & paste it in any "Open" Dialog to directly jump to that folder..1001 more reason which this forum is small to post.


> You dragged the window below the dock and took a screenshot, loser. Show me a little video of you pressing the zoom button and the window goig below the level of the dock. (I know you will either say that you don't have time to do this and what not, or will ignore this now. I'm well accustomed to this defensive behaviour by now.)


Yes, & you deleted Windows files & then said Windows sux. Tell me a video capture utility for Mac & I will give u the video



> 2. Lack of support for the WMA format in iTunes.


Lack of support to play any audio format other then mp3 & mp4 in iTunes. Again, don't lie.

Who am I kidding here.



> Good riddance. If you try to make a person sleep on a rosy bed who is used to sleeping on roads for too long, he will spurn at you and the bed. Go back to your dirtbag of an operating system and try to never show your face in these parts again.



awww....Pwned kya that your marketing attempt failed. 

I say the same to you, Go back to your dirtbag of an operating system and try to never show your face in these parts again. Go back to your OS which runs only on a few selected hardware configuration, doesn't has the novelty of Wide hardware drivers support, doesn't have the novelty of games, doesn't have the novelty of proper keyboard shortcuts, doesn't have the novelty to customize the OS as the user wants to & be happy with it. 

Here is an advice, you say MacOS X is good. Fine we admit. We say Vista is good. FIne now will u admit? I just gave so many reason why Mac sux which you didn't bothered considering. Like always in the end, plz use whatever you want, just don't rant about your product being the best when it is not.


----------



## aryayush (May 18, 2007)

You keep saying that. Why not follow your own advice for a change? Let us see you stop ranting about Windows.

Anyway, I realise (and I admit I should have realised this a lot earlier and heeded the advice of some of the members here) that there really is no end to this and if a person can really use Mac OS X and still feel that Windows is superior, then there is something so fundamentally wrong with that person that I cannot even hope to fix it.

So, I am stopping this madness right this moment and the moderators might want to close the topic now (if they wish to). Unlike you, I am true to my word and you won't ever see me involving in these useless flame wars again (they are not exactly useless, but when a person like you is involved, they become useless).

As distasteful as this might be to certain users, I cannot honestly say that I did not enjoy it. Thanks to everyone for the audience!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

> Anyway, I realise (and I admit I should have realised this a lot earlier and heeded the advice of some of the members here) that there really is no end to this and if a person can really use Mac OS X and still feel that Windows is superior, then there is something so fundamentally wrong with that person that I cannot even hope to fix it.



 & what does that supposed to mean. If some one doesn't like what you like, does that means he is an idiot ?



> So, I am stopping this madness right this moment and the moderators might want to close the topic now (if they wish to). Unlike you, I am true to my word and you won't ever see me involving in these useless flame wars again (they are not exactly useless, but when a person like you is involved, they become useless).



When was the last time I started a thread praising Microsoft or some of there product or comparing there superiority to other product  Isn't it you who does it everytime & gets pwned. Wasen't it you who came in that MacOS X on PC thread & stared saying Vists sux, wasen't it you who started this thread or that "official apple discussion" thread.?


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## gxsaurav (May 18, 2007)

> I enjoyed it.....but its bad to see ppl argue over operatin systems.....*its a persons right to choose his os and be happy with wat u have and it also depends on the field of the person*.....and not everyone can hv macs.....macs are cool,even windows is cool......and linux is the future i guess......there is nothin perfect...tats why new version of OS are made don't they...so the conclusion is its just waste of time......


Bro we know & we admit. We are neutral. We just don't like when a fanboy starts blaming Windows for no reason & doesn't agrees that his favoriot has some serious flaws.....when we even proved it here.
*
Hey boy, tell me something. At the end of the day who is enjoying the games, maximum ammount of 3rd party hardware support, 3rd party software support, running it on computer configuration of our choice , running it the way we want it (Default or disected), modding it the way we want it.

*Arya once told me "mac has thousands of Application" & then gave a statement "Developers don't like making apps for Mac cos it already comes with a very good music player iTunes". Just read the shortcomings of iTunes above


----------



## max_demon (May 18, 2007)

kenshin1988 said:
			
		

> offtopic: how to change the display name...I want to make it Kenshin.


ask Forum admins


----------



## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

I just tried iPhoto & damn does it sux. It is a good photo editor for minor retouching etc...but I got Adobe lightroom for Mac which littrally pwns iPhoto. Anyone willing to challange me on this is welcomed. I used everything i Could on iPhoto,,,& here are the shortcomings. It is the worst Photo Manager out there.

1) It copies your existing Photo graphs to a new iphoto library making 2 copies.

2) There is no folder based nevigation. I have my images put in folders like family, bike, Lucknow, etc but iPhoto has no folder based nevigation. It shows all photo's of year 2006 or 2007 or 2003. Comon, if I have to look for one photo which I know is in the folder "Lucknow" then how will I go there? I don't remember the nomenclature given by my Mobile phone cam.

3) One good thing is that I can make album like "Bike" containing all pics of my bike as virtual links. The pics still at there original location but they are now refered through this "Bike" album. Good but not good enough.

Even XNView running via X11 is better. Atleast it shows folder nevigation.

I have downloaded cross over for Mac. Well, so far 0 music players for Mac which play wma, although this even I would attribute to Microsoft, they should have relesed decoders for WMA 9 & 10 for Mac. Right now I m trying to run Winamp through emulation.

Going to try some iPhoto alternatives like Lightbox.

Just installed shapeshifter, & boy...does drak gray looks good.  Using a skin by the name Uno...& it looks sweet on Mac. This is something where Mac pwns Windows XP. Too bad performance wise on my PC Vista runs better (obviously) & look much superb due to transparency & full screen desktop real estate usage.

*img382.imageshack.us/img382/391/unifiedskinmm0.th.png


----------



## iMav (May 19, 2007)

arya said:
			
		

> At the end of the whole saga, we've come out we six flaws in the operating system:
> 1. Lack of the ability to cut and paste files/folders between drives.
> 2. Lack of support for the WMA format in iTunes.
> 3. The looks of the operating system aren't customisable by default.
> ...


 from 2 it has come to 6 relax more are n transition


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## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

7th Flaw in MacOS X. The rate of finding flaws will be slow now.

7) MacOS has no meaningful & customisable Photo Manager. iPhoto relies on "Rolls" & Time line based nevigation which is good but doesn't appeal to all. There is no folder tree based nevigation in iPhoto nor you can activate it. (correct me if i m wrong).

The Windows Vista counterpart is Windows Photo gallery which doesn't provides much editing capabilities but it is made for photo management, & is good enough for fixing digital photos like red eye etc. It provides timeline, & folder based nevigation & you can also make virtual folders refering to some photos in your HD.

*img50.imageshack.us/img50/6802/photogallerywb7.th.jpg

The direct commercial competitor ACDSee on Windows beats iPhoto hands down in Image management & Editing. Any one willing to challange me, can try ACDSee 9 trial for 21 days easily & look for yourself why it is regarded as the best photo management application out there.

By the way, i uninstalled the applications I don't need in Mac, such as Mail, dashboard, itunes etc


----------



## iMav (May 19, 2007)

well another basics gone wrong in the mac ...

in windows right click and bang u have the option of creating varous types of new files under 'new' well in the mac there is nothing like that which means if u want to create any file u will have to open the application required to open that file and then create ... most frustrating for creating quick txt doc

all  get in the mac is create a new folder  .... how cool ... err... fool is tht

arya consider this the 8th its a genuine flaw

Offtopic: gx how vista black


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 19, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> in windows right click and bang u have the option of creating varous types of new files under 'new' well in the mac there is nothing like that which means if u want to create any file u will have to open the application required to open that file and then create ... most frustrating for creating quick txt doc


 yeah , that's one hell of a problem , just too frustrating .


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## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

online by phone

imav & zeeshan, install npad or noted. These are the real text editors which Mac misses out. Textpad is good but saves as RTF.


 To make a new file creation in Mac via right click menu use automater. But then again what is not there by default is not a feature. . 


Understand one thing, Mac UI is application centric while windows vista UI is task centric.


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## iMav (May 19, 2007)

mac has a txt editor which only opens when u open a txt file  hain yeh santa wali baat


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 19, 2007)

also , you can't save as a normal text file , you HAVE to save it as RTF or other 4-5 given formats


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (May 19, 2007)

> # Date: 20070514
> # Reference: CVE-2007-1531
> # Description: Microsoft Windows Vista (SP0) dumps interfaces when
> # it receives this ARP packet.  This DoS is useful for an internet
> ...


*milw0rm.com/exploits/3926


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## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

^^^ what is that?


----------



## Sukhdeep Singh (May 19, 2007)

Sorry to be offtopic but

^^ Desi-Tek.com, warez forum and you are freely advertising it here


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## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

This just in, Text edit can save to txt file. Just not be default.

Go to preference of text edit & there select type as plain text. Now while saivng don't give any extension & by default it is txt.

Arya, I told U mac doesn't need any extension to view or open a file. They open it depending on Flag & File content bytes. Open that Application folder in Windows & you will see everything is nothing but a foldername.app 

MacOS X despite of having a weird & bad User interface looks very beautiful. But using an OS is not just looks.

i tried a lot but running Winamp with Crossover didn't work. Means if someone is using a Mac, he is forced to use mp3 or MP4 cos no other formats plays.

I am not wrong if I say

Windows is for everything
Linux is for networking, servers, single computer usage.
Mac is for Time pass


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (May 19, 2007)

@gx_saurav new exploit to boot vista out of network by sending single arp packet


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## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

Well finally I found a way to play my Songs in iTunes. All songs that I have in my computer are also in my mobile phone in  m4a format. I just copied back. Won't bother tagging.

Well, I m atill waiting for arya to find me a good image management applicaton & wma player.

The only thing which comes close to ACDSee is "Shoebox" . Wish I could move that folder nevigation structure from top to side.

XNView is another option but failes to run here.


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## aryayush (May 19, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Well, I m atill waiting for arya to find me a good image management applicaton & wma player.


Though I did not tell you that I will find some image management application for you, I can tell you that iPhoto is one of the best image management applications out there and the purpose of using these cataloguing software is that you do not have to mess with file/folders in the Finder anymore. The applications take care of the back-end themselves. You can create albums in iPhoto which are better than folders in the sense that you can store an image under various albums. If you want to manage your photos in folders manually, why use an image management application in the first place! For more advanced image management features, you might want to use Aperture. I must warn you though that Aperture is strictly for professionals and for the simple image management you want to do (_actually you don't want to do anything except criticising everything_), it would be overkill.

As for an audio player that plays WMA, I'm sorry there is none on the Mac except Windows Media Player. It is not Apple's fault that Microsoft has not released any decoders for WMA 9 and 10 for Mac and that they made a really crap version of WMP for Mac. However, I am not one to look for the reasons behind why something is not there. It is Mac OS X, an operating system that has set a high standard for itself, and iTunes should have support for a popular music format (but one that no Mac user uses).
Anyway, you can play WMA in iTunes but it is a little roundabout process. *Open your WMA file in QuickTime and then save it as a reference movie anywhere (the size will hardly be 50KB). Now drag it onto iTunes and it will play just like an MP3 with all the tagging and sorting options. I've tried it and it works like a charm.* (Since it is Mac OS X we are talking about, you can change the location of the original file after you've added it to the library and even while it is playing. Just don't delete it; both files are required.) This is a near perfect way of playing your WMA files in iTunes. Hopefully, we'll see a better solution in the future.

BTW, I would advice you to ask someone else to do it for you as this is too technical for a person who had a hard time trying to find out how to save a text file. Congratulations on the splendid achievement of finally figuring it out!

(I am not trying to participate in a flame war here. I just promised him that I would find the application for him and wanted to post the result.)


----------



## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

I have said it previously & saying it again. iPhoto stands no chance in front of ACDSee or Windows Photo gallery, as far as Photo Management is concerned. Want me to prove it here?

I m right now using shoebox & it is the best ACDSee clone i could find so far, wish i could move that nevigation pane from top to left side

*img518.imageshack.us/img518/7662/shoeboxcc3.th.jpg



> The applications take care of the back-end themselves. You can create albums in iPhoto which are better than folders in the sense that you can store an image under various albums


Although we can already do this in ACDSee & WPG, but here is the thing. I like to manage my Photos in folders & they are already in folders. Thats how I like to manage them. Now you are denying a fact that iPhoto doesn't support folder tree based navigation. Now, for some users the album concept may matter, as Mac UI is application centric but for users like me Folder tree based navigation is what matters, do I have an option in Mac, No. What does that means? Mac is incapable of effective image management. You have to do it the Apple way not the way you want.



> The applications take care of the back-end themselves. You can create albums in iPhoto which are better than folders in the sense that you can store an image under various albums



Although we can already do this in ACDSee & WPG, but here is the thing. I like to manage my Photos in folders & they are already in folders. Thats how I like to manage them. Now you are denying a fact that iPhoto doesn't support folder tree based navigation. Now, for some users the album concept may matter, as Mac UI is application centric but for users like me Folder tree based navigation is what matters, do I have an option in Mac, No. What does that means? Mac is incapable of effective image management.* You have to do it the Apple way not the way you want.'

*Here is where I said that Windows & it's application work the way we want it to.


> It is Mac OS X, an operating system that has set a high standard for itself, and iTunes should have support for a popular music format (but one that no Mac user uses).



Why do you always forget to mention that iTunes plays no audio format other then mp3 & mp4 . I got 200 songs, i m not going to open all of them & refer to them using quicktime when it doesn't even sees my WMA 10 files.


> BTW, I would advice you to ask someone else to do it for you as this is too technical for a person who had a hard time trying to find out how to save a text file. Congratulations on the splendid achievement of finally figuring it out!
> 
> (I am not trying to participate in a flame war here. I just promised him that I would find the application for him and wanted to post the result.)



What else can we expect from you & your sig. There is no simple notepad like app in Mac, while Windows notepad works via crossover. Textedit saves as RTF. I needed something simple like notepad. Even Linux had one.

More truth to be reveled, in the mean time here are a few screenshots.


----------



## aryayush (May 19, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I got 200 songs, i m not going to open all of them & refer to them using quicktime when it doesn't even sees my WMA 10 files.


I don't care what you are going to do and what not. I told you I would run a search for you and I did and informed you how you can play your WMA files in iTunes without encoding them into another format. I have long since stopped expecting you to be grateful to someone for the effort they take for you, so seeing such outrageous posts do not surprise me at all now.




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Textpad [sic] is good but saves as RTF.





			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> This just in, Text edit can save to txt file.





			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Textedit saves as RTF.


*img406.imageshack.us/img406/4831/untitledht4.png


I have done what I promised to do and no amount of stupid baiting will prompt me to post in this thread now. (At least, that's what I hope.)


----------



## gxsaurav (May 19, 2007)

lolz....you are leaving the thread you started hoping to pawn us.



> I don't care what you are going to do and what not. I told you I would run a search for you and I did and informed you how you can play your WMA files in iTunes without encoding them into another format. I have long since stopped expecting you to be grateful to someone for the effort they take for you, so seeing such outrageous posts do not surprise me at all now.


Is that frustration that MacOS can't play any of the audio files out there without VLC Player


> I have done what I promised to do and no amount of stupid baiting will prompt me to post in this thread now. (At least, that's what I hope.)





> (_actually you don't want to do anything except criticising everything_),


Hmm....is it wrong to critisize on a flaw or lack of feature ? Haven't you been doing it for 6 years when you were using Windows. . I am not trying to prove Windows better then MacOS X, you were trying to do that. I am just pointing out pros & cons in MacOS cos although anyone has access to Windows or Linux, hardly a few have access to MacOS in this forum

So here are few things which I would like to revel next, if I get proper encouragement here 

Finder Vs Explorer
iPhoto vs Windows Photo Gallery
Windows Media Player 11 vs iTunes+Quicktime
I can't compare iMovie vs Windows Movie Maker cos I don't have iLife. Just got iPhoto 
Address book vs Windows Contacts
Windows Mail vs Mail.app


----------



## iMav (May 20, 2007)

windows mail nice to use
windows photo gallery u have prooved is much better
wmp well do i need to say nething almost every1 on the forum knows
adress book well they both are same nothing great about either of em


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Of course, I might make some mistakes sometimes like saying that the iSight camera works with a PC, but I have never lied purposely.


iSight *does* work with a PC. You just need the drivers for it. (The driver CD that Boot Camp burns for you has got just what you need)



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 2) There is no folder based nevigation. I have my images put in folders like family, bike, Lucknow, etc but iPhoto has no folder based nevigation. It shows all photo's of year 2006 or 2007 or 2003. Comon, if I have to look for one photo which I know is in the folder "Lucknow" then how will I go there? I don't remember the nomenclature given by my Mobile phone cam.


It's organised by Year>Month number>Day number.
(may be different if you do your month/day thing US-style).

iPhoto's organisation is annoying, but that's the way it does it...

You may want to check *scriptbuilders.net/files/iphotofolderimport1.0.html

You can also help Apple in improving iPhoto by sending you feedback at *www.apple.com/feedback/iphoto.html (Just send them what you've posted about iPhoto here.)


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

Just gave the feedback. Atleast something else Apple should copy....go ACDsee 

This is how easy image management in Windows Photo Gallery is

*img484.imageshack.us/img484/8931/modedpgbf8.th.jpg

Use it the way you want it. Keep in folder or tag them or rate them or whatever you want. If it wasen't for the integrated editing, cropping, convertion capability of ACDSee I would have switch to Photo Gallery. My friends use it with Paint.net & the combination is unriveled.

Apparature, the system requirments are insane. Adobe Lightroom is better instead.

Windows Mails lacks stationarys, yes that is a drawback

I just found a way to sync my K750i in OSX86 . *Good thing in MacOS X, iSync automatically syncs my phone's contact to Address book compleately. *This is better then Windows Mobile centre cos it only works with Windows Mobile phones. Although using Myphoneexplorer in Windows (Free) you can do much more then isync.

Another thing I want to point out.

Uninstalling an application i*s not as easy* as drag & drop in trash

There are 2 type of application packages, 1st are bundles which can be drag & dropped in application folder to install & to trash to uninstall.

There are installer based application, which is same as Windows Vista. They want me to read the whole license aggrement & then enter my password everytime even for apps like in case of DivX, Yahoo Widgets etc & *they do not uninstall using the drag & drop method. There is no unified uninstaller in Mac, *to uninstall these application you will need either to read the documentation on there website, if there isn't any uninstall.pl pearl script given .

How hard it is to give a unified uninstaller like Add Remove program of Windows or Linux. I had to use Spring cleaner 9 to uninstall iPhoto.


----------



## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

> *Apparature*, the system requirments are insane. Adobe Lightroom is better instead.


It's Aperture -- and it's the best. Now it is not priced insanely high too. As for the sytem requirements, can you give me your specs? Aperture runs fine on my Mac.



> Uninstalling an application is not as easy as drag & drop in trash


If you had to double-click on an installer to install a program, try re-running the installer first. In most cases, after you launch it, you’ll see an uninstall option that will automatically remove all the program’s files. Run this. If you don’t see such an option, check the program’s documentation or online help for uninstall instructions.


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

Dude, you got a Mac Pro, obviously it will run fine. I got a X86 PC with Pentium 4 3.06 GHz with HT, 1.5 GB System RAM & Geforce FX 5900XT. Won't dare downloading aperture. Adobe lightroom not only looks better but also runs fine, even iPhoto is slow here. (I do not attribute this slowness to Apple, it not a mac it is a Hackintosh)

You can yourself read the system requirment for it, 1 GB is miminum recomended...lolz.



> If you had to double-click on an installer to install a program, try re-running the installer first. In most cases, after you launch it, you’ll see an uninstall option that will automatically remove all the program’s files. Run this. If you don’t see such an option, check the program’s documentation or online help for uninstall instructions.



I did that, no uninstallation option in many apps. Again brings me to the point "There is no proper unified uninstallation mechanism in Mac". (correct me if i m wrong)

Another problem, which I seriously need some help with. I have many multi session DVDs, like Heroes disk containing 12 episodes. Now first 9 were burned in one session then rest 3 in another multisession in Nero using UDF Mode. When inserted in Mac it only shows the first 9 episodes & does not shows the rest, or doesn't show the multisession track


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## iMav (May 20, 2007)

see i told u the bluetooth was good and un-installation ya thats another ball game altogether


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

> 1 GB is miminum recomended...lolz.


You have 1.5GB RAM. Shouldn't that be enough?



> I did that, no uninstallation option in many apps. Again brings me to the point "There is no proper unified uninstallation mechanism in Mac". (correct me if i m wrong)


For most apps, dragging to trash works. And for most of the other apps, re-runnuning the installer works. For other few rare apps, check the program’s documentation or online help for uninstall instructions.


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

nepcker

My RAM is good enough but not my graphics card & CPU, check the system requirments. Anyway, i am happy with shoebox & lightroom . Would have killed for ACDSee for Mac though.

And seriously dude, if in 2007 you want me to read online documentation to uninstall an application then you must be joking. This is a basic necessity in an OS to install & uninstall application. Even if you now don't call this a flaw then I don't know how else to interpret something.

As an example, I just reinstalled iPhoto & during the installation it did not gave me an uninstallation option. I tried using spring cleaner & removed entries using that. Now in application folder iPhoto is curropt & cannot start.


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## assasin (May 20, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> For most apps, dragging to trash works. And for most of the other apps, re-runnuning the installer works. For other few rare apps, check the program’s documentation or online help for uninstall instructions.


 
OMG! wat methods to uninstall apps.
why cant that OS provide a unified uninstaller.at Windows Vista has one.thank god.


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

Try doing this:
Drag the program’s folder to the Trash.
Look in your _user folder | Library | Application Support_ for any references to the program.
Also check in your _user folder | Library | Preferences_ for the program’s preferences.
If you find something related to the uninstalled program, you can drag it to the Trash.


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

Yup Yup & Yup, Spring cleaner found all these & i moved all to trash, still no go. Want me to post a video of it?

Anyway, i m updating to MacOS X 10.4.9 which might screw the OS so it might not work anymore. C ya if If it works after updating.


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## assasin (May 20, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Try doing this:
> Drag the program’s folder to the Trash.
> Look in your _user folder | Library | Application Support_ for any references to the program.
> Also check in your _user folder | Library | Preferences_ for the program’s preferences.
> If you find something related to the uninstalled program, you can drag it to the Trash.


 
why sud a user hav to check out so many folders just to make sure that an app is uninstalled in 2007?? 
dont u agree its a flaw in the os??

I wish uninstalling apps in Mac OS X was as easy as in Vista. If so, then Mac OS X would have been a gr8 product.


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## iMav (May 20, 2007)

> why sud a user hav to check out so many folders just to make sure that an app is uninstalled in 2007??


 thts the mac way 


> dont u agree its a flaw in the os??


 they are gonna out rightly deny it being a flaw and come with some stupid excuse saying its the mac way or some crap consider this the 9 or 10th flaw iv lost track ... and this was supposed to be the best OS ... i bet u cant find 10 flaws in either porsche or bmw


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

Due to some reasons beyond my control, my nearest apple shop is closed. , I will have to wait for it to open again before starting over. 

This is the 3rd time I m installing Mac this week, out of which only this time it is my mistake. C Ya. 

iMav, if thats the Mac way then it is quite stupid  to remove an app. Windows Installer is much better way.


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

Since gx_saurav has been complaining about iPhoto not being uninstalled, I tried it myself.

I backed up any images that were stored in the iPhoto folders (these are likely to be in the Pictures folder under the user directory). Then I simply went to the Applications folder and then dragged iPhoto to the trash. Done. 

Okay, there will still be other iPhoto files in the Preferences folder under the user Library, but these are not critical to remove. They take up some disk space, but they won't hurt your Mac if they remain there.


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

Yo, read again. I have already uninstalled iPhoto after installing it. Using the same drag & drop to trash method. Now if I reinstall it & start by going to the application folder, double clicking says "Application curropt"


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

Sorry, I missed that one point. I was thinking you had trouble just *uninstalling* it.

The problem seems that some files which should not have been deleted, have been deleted.

Please post the *exact* thing you have done with iPhoto, right from how and where you installed it.


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## iMav (May 20, 2007)

“I wish developing a decent OS was as easy as holding mac expos. If so, then apple would have had a great OS.”


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## gxsaurav (May 20, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> “I wish developing a decent OS was as easy as holding mac expos. If so, then apple would have had a great OS.”


Flaw 8 ) MacOS X does not have a proper uninstaller frontend.

Here is how Windows Installer 3.1, another superb feature by Microsoft works

1) Developer makes an application & packages all the exe & required libraries using Windows Installer as one .msi file. This also contains installer scripts to install files at specific locations.

2) .msi file is distributed over net or CDs, with one installer .msi file & many libraries & dll or packages (.cab) files.

3) User starts installation, & MSI detects which version of Windows it is, whether all the required files are already there or not such as .net runtime or IE 7 etc. If not then it tells you to download them.

4) Assuming you have all the requirments full filled, which if you are using Windows, are already fullfilled it asks you where you want to install the application.

5) Installation starts & Windows installer backups up all the files it is replacing during the installation. No files are over written. Old files are always backed up.

6) Application is installed fine. If you uninstall there is a unified uninstallation method out there "Add remove programs". If you uninstall something using Windows installer, all the files which were backed up will be replaced where they were sans new DLL files.

Windows installer engine can be integrated using other installer scripts like installshield or WISE or NSIS. Developers can use whatever script engine they want.

Oh & just to make it clear, that DLL Hell days of Windows 98 are over now.


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## nepcker (May 20, 2007)

gx_saurav, please post the exact process you have followed, right from how and where you installed iPhoto.


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## gxsaurav (May 21, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> gx_saurav, please post the exact process you have followed, right from how and where you installed iPhoto.



I downloaded iPhoto as a sitx file, by a link given by andy. Extracted that sitx using stuffit expander & it gave me iphoto.pkg file.  I just double clicked on that pkg file to start the installer of iPhoto. It gave me license agreements, said to click on agree etc etc (& they call MS bad for giving license agreement & next button). Then asked me to enter my password to install the application.

Now who said UAC is bad cos it asks you to click on Ok, everytime you install an application. All the apps I have* installed* in Mac needed me to enter password. I guess one lie of Macboys cought here that in Mac you can simply drag & drop an application to install it. *Those are indeed there but not all apps come in pre-packaged applicationname.app format.

*I played with iPhoto for a while but didn't like it, so I took the usual method as said by Apple & Mac users to uninstall an application. I went to application folder & draged the iPhoto icon to trash.

Then after some posts I decided to reinstall it to check whether I have missed something or not in iPhoto. This time i again ran the iphoto.pkg file & same installation routine. However after installing when I went to the application folder to start it, it gave me an erroe "Application curropt". I again uninstalled it using drag & drop to trash & reinstalled it, still the same warning.

Oh well, Weekend is over. Back to studies. This last week of using MacOS X really revealed many truths. *MacOS X does looks good in UI, that even I would admit.* But compared only to Windows XP. *With Vista that novelty of MacOS X is gone.

*There are many other silly anonymous too, such as the once I have mentioned here in previous posts, too bad Macboys are not ready to admit those flaws. Countable there are 9, uncounted there are around 15 so far in just 1 week.

Keep in mind that Mac is an OEM Computer & I have been comparing it with Windows Vista on an assembled PC. If I was comparing with Dell or HP, then I wouldn't have talked about iPhoto Vs Windows Photo Gallery, instead I would have talked about iPhoto vs Photoshop Elements which usually comes with OEM PCs. (example)

This is a screenshot for an image editing program called Seashore for Mac. It is based on GIMP & shows exectly how badly implemented the Palated UI of Mac can be. I m working in it & but still showing my desktop.

This is the best free image editing program I have come up with so far. Mac users if there is something better for free & small, then do recomend. Plz don't mention Photoshop, we all know it blows everything out 

*img527.imageshack.us/img527/7705/seashorephtoeditorkt6.th.jpg


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## nepcker (May 21, 2007)

> Now who said UAC is bad cos it asks you to click on Ok, everytime you install an application.


 If you remember, I have mentioned that some form of a UAC is already there at Mac OS X. The dialog box comes way less often, but it's there. 

Now, Vista's UAC isn't bad because it asks for permission to install an app, but because it pops up more often. 



> All the apps I have *installed* in Mac needed me to enter password. I guess one lie of Macboys cought here that in Mac you can simply drag & drop an application to install it.


 Most apps to be installed, just need drag-n-drop. These are only for some apps that will do some changes to the system. 

On Windows XP, any application, be it good or bad, can make changes to your system. On Vista, a UAC message will come up even if the app tries to do even minor change.

On Mac OS X, the box comes only when you're making relatively significant changes to your system. You approve the changes.



> Then after some posts I decided to reinstall it to check whether I have missed something or not in iPhoto. This time i again ran the iphoto.pkg file & same installation routine. However after installing when I went to the application folder to start it, it gave me an erroe "Application curropt". I again uninstalled it using drag & drop to trash & reinstalled it, still the same warning.


 Since I'm not sure what "curropt" and "erroe" means, it may take some more time before I can help you to get iPhoto running again. 

Because you suffer from a very poor English (poor spelling, in this case), it would have been better if you had posted a screenshot of the "Application *Corrupt*" message.



> *This last week of using MacOS X really revealed many truths. MacOS X does looks good in UI, that even I would admit*_._ But compared only to Windows XP. *With Vista that novelty of MacOS X is gone.*


You wouldn't have admitted that, I'm sure.

Things like this happens when Microsoft decides to copy Apple's Aqua user interface. Heck, even the *names* are similar. Okay, Vista adds in a few enhancements, but it is still a OS X clone.



> This is a screenshot for an image editing program called Seashore for Mac. It is based on GIMP & shows exectly how badly implemented the Palated UI of Mac can be. I m working in it & but still showing my desktop.


 Now, PC World has an article called "The Right Operating System for You" which points out the pros and cons of XP, Vista, OS X, and Linux. Read it here.

Here's what it reads about OS X's interface: "_Interface is uncluttered, efficient, and logical, *though some applications break its legendary consistency.*_"

Now some of the "flaws" of OS X you are mentioning are the faults of other applications, not the fault of OS X itself -- like what seems to be the case with Seashore.

And btw, here's what the article says about Vista's UI: "_*Still confusing to navigate*, but in new and different ways. Some Control Panel apps contain useful new settings, but many are unchanged from XP and lurk_"


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## gxsaurav (May 21, 2007)

> On Mac OS X, the box comes only when you're making relatively significant changes to your system. You approve the changes.


Significent changes ? It even came when I tried installing DivX codec, you consider that as a Significent change? It even asked me for my password when i just tried installing an icontainer in candybar. Now you tell me whether this is stupid or not.


> Since I'm not sure what "curropt" and "erroe" means, it may take some more time before I can help you to get iPhoto running again.
> 
> Because you suffer from a very poor English (poor spelling, in this case), it would have been better if you had posted a screen shot of the "Application *Corrupt*" message.


You are here to help or what? You asked what happened & what I did, well I posted it here. The  drag & drop method to uninstall an application. Or is it frustration that MacOS is flawed in such basic things. When you have nothing to say or can't admit a flaw, you start mocking typos. 



> Things like this happens when Microsoft decides to copy Apple's Aqua user interface. Heck, even the *names* are similar. Okay, Vista adds in a few enhancements, but it is still a OS X clone.


& Coka cola makes engine oil, while Nokia makes breads . We can already see in this thread the truth & who is copying.



> Now, PC World has an article called "The Right Operating System for You" which points out the pros and cons of XP, Vista, OS X, and Linux. Read it here.
> 
> Here's what it reads about OS X's interface: "I_nterface is uncluttered, efficient, and logical, *though some applications break its legendary consistency.*_"
> 
> ...


Should I point to 10 other such articles on the net praising Windows Vista? Dude talk with what you know, linking to other articles won't help anyone. I am using OS X & truth is revealed how good it is. That article mentioned that dashboard is integrated in Mac, but forgot to mention sidebar of Vista. How thorough it is can be judged by this simple single fact.

*   Regarding Windows Vista & Mac navigation, well....Windows Explorer Vs Finder will be posted soon in this section. Then everyone can give there verdict themselves.*

Here is the thing, *why buy a new Apple Mac to switch when you can do everything you want in any way you want on your existing PC running Windows Vista home premium.*


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## aryayush (May 21, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Here's what it reads about OS X's interface: "_Interface is uncluttered, efficient, and logical, *though some applications break its legendary consistency.*_"
> 
> Now some of the "flaws" of OS X you are mentioning are the faults of other applications, not the fault of OS X itself -- like what seems to be the case with Seashore.


No, there is no problem with that application. I did not comment on it when gx_saurav said it because he knows as much about good user interface design as I know about chemistry (and I used to score two out of hundred)!

Even Photoshop opens a new windows for each new image over the desktop. You won't find a gray background (that serves as much purpose as the appendix in a human body) that you find on Windows. So, you have access to all the icons on the desktop and the Finder windows behind. You can even directly drag images from web pages into Photoshop without needing to save them. You can switch between your images using Exposé. These are important functions that are lacking in the Windows version because it does not support that sort of a UI ("palated" does not seem to be any word in the English dictionary). I take my Mac with me to Arena Multimedia even though they have Photoshop CS3 Extended there because I cannot work with that gray background and single window concept that restricts me within the boundaries of the application and I have to use 'Ctrl + O' for opening new files. Worst of all, there is no efficient way to switch between the various images you have open in Photoshop. You'll notice that on Windows, people tend to open very few images in Photoshop but on a Mac, you can work with fifty images at once. I do so on a regular basis. Maybe not fifty, but fifteen images are almost always open. I can also minimise individual images. The "palated" UI of Mac OS X is very superior to whatever gx_saurav calls the Windows UI. And that Seashore thing is not an oddball application - it is doing what it is supposed to. 

@gx_saurav
Applications that were installed with an installer need to be uninstalled with an installer too. It is a pretty simple concept. Mac OS X does lack a unified uninstaller like Windows though.

Oh, and BTW, changing all your icons and installing a DivX codec for the QuickTime Engine, which you already know is integrated into the core of Mac OS X, come under the category of _significant_ changes. Don't try to make it sound like Mac OS X asks you for the password often. It doesn't. And when it does, you really are doing something that is changing something at the root level.

*img300.imageshack.us/img300/381/aryayushuserbarkm0.gif


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## iMav (May 21, 2007)

well another member of this forum got his fingers burnt while trying the best os on world and relaised and has admitted that it sux and has said that vista is far ahead of it  ....


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 21, 2007)

The real Strength Of Windows lies in the fact that 99% of Softwares support Windows , thus Third Party support is the teump of WIndows .

as WIth OS X , well apple can't make each and every software for Mac , third party is good but nowhere in comparison to Windows XP or Vista(in itme to come)


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## aryayush (May 21, 2007)

A little software comparison between Mac OS X and Windows. It is painfully obvious that Mac OS X has much better applications than Windows has.

*Cha-Ching* - *img178.imageshack.us/img178/2191/libraryzt8.th.png
*AceMoney* - *img178.imageshack.us/img178/8923/scr02lt7.th.png
*The Monkey* - *img91.imageshack.us/img91/111/cashregistermw7.th.png


*Delicious Library* - *img244.imageshack.us/img244/4449/deliciouslibraryyx9.th.png
*MovieFinder* - *img329.imageshack.us/img329/4418/entrytabnrz5.th.jpg
*Book Organizer Deluxe *- *img527.imageshack.us/img527/9089/softwaretemplate1wb4.th.jpg


*iSale* - *img201.imageshack.us/img201/3760/62940238ze0.th.jpg
*AuctionTimeWatch* - *img170.imageshack.us/img170/8171/mainwindowkz4.th.gif


*Coda* - *img82.imageshack.us/img82/3945/sitesscreenshot01sb9.th.jpg
*WebDwarf* - *img329.imageshack.us/img329/9837/sswebdwarfwo1.th.jpg
*CoffeeCup HTML Editor* - *img201.imageshack.us/img201/2358/screen3zw2.th.gif


*Xtorrent* - *img176.imageshack.us/img176/1452/39091262cy7.th.png
*µTorrent* - *img176.imageshack.us/img176/6739/utorrent3cq3.th.png
*Azureus* - *img176.imageshack.us/img176/165/mytorrentsth8.th.png

(The first application in each group is the Mac app.)
I could go on... Look at NewsFire and Windows RSS feed readers. Every application on the Mac has a better interface than the Windows counterpart.

And since you can legally, and in most cases without even the need for Windows, run Windows applications on Mac OS X (if you need to but you never actually need to), Macs can run every application in the world.

Anyway, why I am I indulging again!

*img300.imageshack.us/img300/381/aryayushuserbarkm0.gif


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## iMav (May 21, 2007)

well look at what the mac boys have come to ... they are comparing third party application  arya pinch urslef to come out of ur wonderland which makes u even consider a thought tht mac has better third party apps than windows


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## aryayush (May 21, 2007)

Have you even looked at two of those screenshots?

*img300.imageshack.us/img300/381/aryayushuserbarkm0.gif


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## gxsaurav (May 21, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> No, there is no problem with that application. I did not comment on it when gx_saurav said it because he knows as much about good user interface design as I know about chemistry (and I used to score two out of hundred)!



I got 89 out of 100 in CBSE board Class 12th, chemistry. 3rd highest in the class.

(Maths ka naam mat lo ) 


> Worst of all, there is no efficient way to switch between the various images you have open in Photoshop. You'll notice that on Windows, people tend to open very few images in Photoshop but on a Mac, you can work with fifty images at once. I do so on a regular basis. Maybe not fifty, but fifteen images are almost always open. I can also minimise individual images.



Hmm long have u been working on real time PSD textures made in Genetica then imported to Photoshop & worked on in real time while rendering is going on in background? The day you start working on 15 images together you will realize the sheer benifit of ctrl+Tab in photoshop.


> The "palated" UI of Mac OS X is very superior to whatever gx_saurav calls the Windows UI.



& Nokia makes breads while Coca Cola makes engine oil 



> Applications that were installed with an installer need to be uninstalled with an installer too. It is a pretty simple concept. *Mac OS X does lack a unified uninstaller like Windows though.*



Yup, a simple thing which has been there since 1998 in Windows. Flaw number 8 of Mac OS X 



> Oh, and BTW, changing all your icons and installing a DivX codec for the QuickTime Engine, which you already know is integrated into the core of Mac OS X, come under the category of _significant_ changes. Don't try to make it sound like Mac OS X asks you for the password often. It doesn't. And when it does, you really are doing something that is changing something at the root level.



Root lavel  Yo, I changed the icons using candybar & still it asked me. Is that what you call root lavel in Mac OS? Wow, atleast UAC doesn't prompts me if i change icons using IconPackager. Asking password is as annoying as UAC.



			
				Zeeshan said:
			
		

> The real Strength Of Windows lies in the fact that 99% of Softwares support Windows , thus Third Party support is the teump of WIndows .
> 
> as WIth OS X , well apple can't make each and every software for Mac , third party is good but nowhere in comparison to Windows XP or Vista(in itme to come)



Right said 

@ arya.

Wow, those application look so beautiful & cute....do they make cofee & cake too .

It doesn't matter how good an application looks like (iPhoto or Finder) if it is not good enough for performance & functionality(acdsee or Explorer), it is as good as useless.(iTunes for Windows)


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## QwertyManiac (May 22, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> (Maths ka naam mat lo )


English? 1 mark grace? Or didn't take the subject itself?


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

Off topic.....dude.


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## aryayush (May 22, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter how good an application looks like


It does. It matters a lot.

It did not use to matter to you how good an operating system looked like until Vista came along. Suddenly it is the most important feature of the operating system. It does not matter to you now how good the interfaces are of applications because almost every application on Windows looks like it has been designed in MS Paint - or worse, taken out of a trash can and shoved down the users' throats. But soon more and more applications will come along (like Yahoo! Messenger for Vista) that have refined user interfaces on Windows (because the developers aren't as stupid as you are) and you'll be boasting all over this very forum how cool the interfaces are. Then it will be the most important thing in the world for you. Of course, Mac OS X would have moved on to something better by then (with Core Animation in Leopard) and that will not matter to you.

Gist of the matter (pardon the pun) is, no one cares what matters to you so just STFU and mind your own business. I had prepared that list of screenshots a few days ago and had intended to post it but then I had decided I wouldn't. However, it had taken some time so I thought I should post it anyway (for the benefit of the about five objective and unbiased users on this forum, a list on which I do not include myself). I know it hurt your ego but I don't really give a damn.


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> It did not use to matter to you how good an operating system looked like until Vista came along. Suddenly it is the most important feature of the operating system.





> It does not matter to you now how good the interfaces are of applications because almost every application on Windows looks like it has been designed in MS Paint - or worse, taken out of a trash can and shoved down the users' throats. But soon more and more applications will come along (like Yahoo! Messenger for Vista) that have refined user interfaces on Windows (because the developers aren't as stupid as you are) and you'll be boasting all over this very forum how cool the interfaces are. Then it will be the most important thing in the world for you. Of course, Mac OS X would have moved on to something better by then (with Core Animation in Leopard) and that will not matter to you.


There was a reason I told you to take some history lessons about GX Icons & KoL's Vista theme moded for XP. 

Do you know what feature Core Animation provides or are you just taking its name cos it is an Apple technology copied from WPF.



> Gist of the matter (pardon the pun) is, no one cares what matters to you so just STFU and mind your own business. I had prepared that list of screenshots a few days ago and had intended to post it but then I had decided I wouldn't. However, it had taken some time so I thought I should post it anyway (for the benefit of the about five objective and unbiased users on this forum, a list on which I do not include myself). *I know it hurt your ego but I don't really give a damn.*


I guess you forgot the read the whole line & read just the first words.



			
				GX said:
			
		

> It doesn't matter how good an application looks like (iPhoto or Finder) *if it is not good enough for performance & functionality*(acdsee or Explorer), it is as good as useless.(iTunes for Windows)


*I ask the members here, does a good flashy UI matters for you if the program is low on features & is not good enough ?
*
And my ego, boy you are the one acting lame & frustrated. I am just giving my verdict which any membar is free to judge & give there proper responce which doesn't includes abuses. Arya, when was the last time you made UI for an application or some icons or some toolbar for something?


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## QwertyManiac (May 22, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *I ask the members here, does a good flashy UI matters for you if the program is low on features & is not good enough ?*



What do you want us to say? Aren't you using Vista yourself? And I see it does matter a lot to you.


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

So, I am using Vista myself, not just because of the UI but also the usability improvements it brings to my workflow.

In simple terms, does a nice GUI matters to you membars as said by arya, if the software is below functionality.

I have given examples too....like iPhoto & WPG


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## iMav (May 22, 2007)

the poit is vista has both sexy UI and a lot of features no matter how u compare it vista also has a cut option  where as mac has a decent ui and lacks in features ....


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## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

When it comes to looks in UI, MacOS beats XP hands down. However with Vista things are different, Yup it did take MS 5 years to make the UI look better but now with WPF & .net 3.0 MS has given the developer complete control over whatever they want to do with Vista UI & so far this is just the begining.

Which again brings me to my old arguement line "Why buy a new Mac Computer when you can run Windows Vista on your existing PC & do whatever you want"

How good the UI of vista is to nevigate will be shown in the file manager comparision


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## nepcker (May 22, 2007)

Sorry. My apologies. I commented on Seashore without even seeing the screenshot. I'll be doing my best to not repeat this kind of mistakes.

Now, about the iPhoto problem. I'll like to repeat what I had once said:


			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> If you had to double-click on an installer to install a program, try re-running the installer first. In most cases, after you launch it, you’ll see an uninstall option that will automatically remove all the program’s files. Run this.


Is this that complicated? I don't think so.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup, a simple thing which has been there since 1998 in Windows. Flaw number 8 of Mac OS X


Now, a few years ago, I had to uninstall an application in Windows. No uninstaller was bundled with it, so I looked at "Add/Remove Programs". No mention about the program there. I guess there are a few programs that don't add to Add/Remove Programs too.

This means that some Windows programs cause you trouble when you want to uninstall them. The same for Mac OS X. You can't really blame either of the OS for this.



> You can yourself read the system requirment for it, 1 GB is miminum recomended...lolz.


1GB RAM for Aperture. Hmm...... Pretty unreasonable, isn't it?
Hey, what's the RAM required for Vista? 1 GB I guess.

Aperture is an advanced application, and hence has high system recommended. Vista is just an OS, and I think Dell recommends 2GB RAM for smooth performance. Okay, the Starter edition will run on a 256MB RAM machine, but Vista without Aero is... umm... Windows XP!



> Why buy a new Mac Computer when you can run Windows Vista on your *existing* PC & do whatever you want


Bwahahahahahahahahhahahaha! LOL!  Literally rolling on the floor, laughing!
Do you even know the system requirements of Windows Vista (with Aero and all the eye-candy)? I don't think that old PCs (except the really high-end ones) are capable of running Vista without an upgrade while fairly old macs can run the latest version of Mac OS X with all the eye-candy and all.



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> why sud a user hav to check out so many folders just to make sure that an app is uninstalled in 2007??


Since the iLife suite (and hence iPhoto) comes pre-installed with Macs, I didn't know whether it had an installer or not. Re-running the installer will do all the jobs for you.


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## assasin (May 22, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Do you even know the system requirements of Windows Vista (with Aero and all the eye-candy)? I don't think that old PCs (except the really high-end ones) are capable of running Vista without an upgrade while fairly old macs can run the latest version of Mac OS X with all the eye-candy and all.


 
And do u know the sys req of Windows Vista???i dont think u do cuz if u did then u wudnt hav made that statement.
Min req of Vista:
Proccy = 800MHz
RAM = 512MB
HDD = 40GB with 15GB space in installation prompt.
Gfx Card = 128MB with SM 2.0 support if u want Aero Enabled 
Most 1-2 yr old pcs hav onboard gfx which r SM 2 capable and the most that they hav to do is inc their system ram if they already dont hav enough of it.

i dont that mac os X will run just fine with 256MB of system ram.it'll req 512MB.all intel based macs come with a 915 chipset based mobo which means that u already hav a SM 2 based onboard gfx. 

so i cant see much diff bet system reqs of both the os.

Now tell me wat did u wanna prove with ur statements????



> _It doesn't matter how good an application looks like (iPhoto or Finder) *if it is not good enough for performance & functionality*(acdsee or Explorer), it is as good as useless.(iTunes for Windows)_


 
UI of an app does matter cuz it creates a pleasant view for us.but an app is of no use if it only has a good UI and has crippled/poor functionality.for an app to be successfull it needs to hav both a good UI and sud do wats its meant to do,providin g full functionality to the end-user


----------



## nepcker (May 22, 2007)

assasin,
I was talking about Windows Vista *Premium* Ready PCs, with Aero and all that. Here are the requirements for Vista from *www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/capable.mspx  :
    * 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor¹).
    * 1 GB of system memory.
    * Support for DirectX 9 graphics with a WDDM driver, 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)², Pixel Shader 2.0 and 32 bits per pixel.
    * 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
    * DVD-ROM Drive³.
    * Audio output capability.
    * Internet access capability.

The page clearly says that "Some features available in the premium editions of Windows Vista—like the new Windows Aero user experience—may require advanced or additional hardware." 

And oh, Aero will most probably not run if the graphics are integrated.

Now don't say that the site is unreliable and is fake.

And before I had my Mac Pro, I ran Mac OS X Tiger on my 512 MB RAM Mac Mini. (Though 256 MB would have been sufficient.)

And here are the system requirements for the current version of Mac OS X from *www.apple.com/macosx/techspecs/ :
    *  Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G3, G4 or G5 processor
    * Built-in FireWire
    * DVD drive for installation
    * 256MB of RAM
    * 3GB of available hard disk space (4GB if you install the developer tools)

Actually, built-in firewire is not necessary, but it's better if you have it.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Re-running the installer will do all the jobs for you.



Yup, i tried this. None of the applications which come with installers are providing this option. If you get this with some app then show me a screenshot. I will check that app too.



> Now, a few years ago, I had to uninstall an application in Windows. No uninstaller was bundled with it, so I looked at "Add/Remove Programs". No mention about the program there. I guess there are a few programs that don't add to Add/Remove Programs too.



Few years ago....time has changed, but Mac still doesn't have a unified add/remove program or uninstaller . There are many applications such as 7-Zip or which do not require any installation. just unzip & run. To uninstall, delete it. That program also seems like the same, there was no need of an installer or uninstaller.



> This means that some Windows programs cause you trouble when you want to uninstall them. The same for Mac OS X. You can't really blame either of the OS for this.



Windows has Add/Remove program since ages, Mac doesn't. Isn't this a flaw?



> Bwahahahahahahahahhahahaha! LOL!  Literally rolling on the floor, laughing!
> Do you even know the system requirements of Windows Vista (with Aero and all the eye-candy)? I don't think that old PCs (except the really high-end ones) are capable of running Vista without an upgrade



Sigh...here we go again. I have myself installed & worked on Vista on a computer with 1 GB RAM, Pentium 4 2.4 GHz & Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card. This computer came 4 years ago, the same time when I bought my new computer on which I m working right now.



> UI of an app does matter cuz it creates a pleasant view for us.but an app is of no use if it only has a good UI and has crippled/poor functionality.for an app to be successfull it needs to hav both a good UI and sud do wats its meant to do,providin g full functionality to the end-user



Bang on target.

nepcker, try running MacOS X on 256 MB . You will be amazed to see it's performance.


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> And do u know the sys req of Windows Vista???


 There are two problems with figures mentioned by you:
a) They are not for Vista with Aero interface.
b) They are provided by Microsoft thus are not true under real life circumstances.

Here are the requirements for Windows XP Pro by Microsoft





> •	Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster
> •	At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM
> •	At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk


Now do you believe those figures? Have you ever seen a system with 233MHz processor with 64 RAM running Windows XP Pro in usable state???


----------



## Choto Cheeta (May 22, 2007)

Sorry to poke my nose in,

@eddie

5 years back, just after Windows XP came, I used to run it with My P-II 266 and 128 MB RAM (64+64), now back then for some reason one of my 64MB stick wnet dead (dust on RAM), and as that time i was a noobe, didnt even noticed drop of RAM, what i felt is, XP taking long time to boot and load...

I worked fine with 64MB in windows xp with Offfice 2000  simple Office work and some printing ohh and yeah some Road Rash 

P.S. Sorry, forgot to maintioned, back the i didnt know how to Turn off Vidual Graphics, so I just used the classic theme, but as u know by Default it will keep the Settings on 

and now even with my C2D and 3GB DDR-II i feel my xp is running slow 

but 5/5 and half years back, even that P-II i used to think its a gr8 computeing exp with WInXP


----------



## shantanu (May 22, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> There are two problems with figures mentioned by you:
> a) They are not for Vista with Aero interface.
> b) They are provided by Microsoft thus are not true under real life circumstances.
> 
> ...


 
yup , i have seen a PC, with 333mhz CPU and 64 mb RAM running Windows Xp PRO.. and more of 433 and 633 mhz cpu with 64 and 128 mb ram..

*System requirements for Windows XP operating systems*
View products that this article applies to.
Article ID : 314865 
Last Review : May 7, 2007 
Revision : 4.2 
This article was previously published under Q314865
For a Microsoft Windows 2000 version of this article, see 304297 (*support.microsoft.com/kb/304297/EN-US/). 

*SUMMARY*This article contains information about the minimum hardware requirements for Windows XP Home Edition and Windows XP Professional. 
*MORE INFORMATION*

*These are the minimum requirements for basic functionality*. Actual requirements vary, depending on the system configuration and the programs and features that you choose to install. If you are installing Windows XP over a network, you may need additional available hard-disk space.

*The minimum hardware requirements for Windows XP Home Edition are:*

• Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (*300 MHz is recommended) *
• At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (*128 MB is recommended*) 
• At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk  
• CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive 
• Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device 
• Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600)or higher resolution  
• Sound card 
• Speakers or headphones 

For more information about system requirements for Windows XP Home Edition, visit the following Microsoft Web site: 
*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/evaluation/sysreqs.mspx (*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/evaluation/sysreqs.mspx)
For more information about Windows XP Home Edition, visit the following Microsoft Web site: 
*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx (*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/howtobuy/choosing2.mspx)

*The minimum hardware requirements for Windows XP Professional include:*

• Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended) 
• At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended) 
• At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk  
• CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive 
• Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device 
• Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher resolution 
• Sound card 
• Speakers or headphones 
For more information about system requirements for Windows XP Professional, visit the following Microsoft Web site: 
*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/sysreqs.mspx (*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/sysreqs.mspx)
For more information about Windows XP Professional, visit the following Microsoft Web site: 
*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/whyupgrade/featurecomp.mspx (*www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/whyupgrade/featurecomp.mspx)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*APPLIES TO*
• Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition 
• Microsoft Windows XP Professional


----------



## QwertyManiac (May 22, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> yup , i have seen a PC, with 333mhz CPU and 64 mb RAM running Windows Xp PRO.. and more of 433 and 633 mhz cpu with 64 and 128 mb ram..



You understand '*usable state*' ? Oh right, I should have realized there were two who dont.


----------



## nepcker (May 22, 2007)

I agree with eddie. 

I used to run Mac OS X with just 256 MB RAM, and it worked fine. 

The OS runs fine, but the apps don't. They act sluggish. 512 MB should be fine.

@gx_saurav:
I am yet to read your post, and when I will, I'll reply to it.

As for now, read the review of ACDSee 1.6 for mac here. It is as slow as hell, and the thumbnails look ugly. I'll use Aperture and GraphicConverter, thank you.


----------



## shantanu (May 22, 2007)

QwertyManiac said:
			
		

> You understand '*usable state*' ? Oh right, I should have realized there were two who dont.


yeah sure i do understand usable state, i hope you understand and read my post carefully! i said i saw it running fine, means it was running fine.... no problems.. and in usable state..

i hope you use some common sense... and use the sys. req. for basic functionality.. and i have two systems with me in that config. one is 333hmz and the other is 633 mhz.. 

what to remind.. i thought you had some common sense.. you are a old member , should show some sense in your language..

and nepcker.. leave it buddy you wont understand... coz you are blind MAC follower...


----------



## led_shankar (May 22, 2007)

Then I'd say that MS has grossly overestimated its capacility in the minimum specs. Running it on even 128 MB is hardly usable.


----------



## nepcker (May 22, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> and nepcker.. leave it buddy you wont understand... coz you are blind MAC follower...


"& Nokia makes breads while Coca Cola makes engine oil "



			
				led_shankar said:
			
		

> Then I'd say that MS has grossly overestimated its capacility in the minimum specs. Running it on even 128 MB is hardly usable.


+1


----------



## kalpik (May 22, 2007)

Yup.. Before my current PC, i had a Pentium III 600 Mhz system, with 192 MB ram, and XP was FAR from usable on it..

IMHO, at least 512 MB ram is required for a comfortable experience with XP.

On the other hand, have a look here: *www.slackware.com/about/
Read "The Box" section. And mind you, that's a server running a popular site..


----------



## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

Windows XP runs fine on a computer with 256 MB RAM. You guys are missing a big point here that Windows XP released 5 years ago. At that time the application which used to come for Win2K/XP were not that demanding on system RAM. Even high end games like Unreal tournament 2003 used to give maximum performance at 512 MB RAM & after that any increse in RAM did not result in siginificent performance increse in the game.

Same goes today, 5 years down the line the memory requirment of applications which run on XP has incresed, the OS itself still runs fine on 256 MB RAM, with 512 MB RAM being enough to run it & 1 GB RAM as an overkill for the XP OS.

If you look at the rate of memory requirment increse then don't you see Linux & Mac also requiring more RAM today compared to 5 years ago? How many features were in applications 5 years ago compared to today ? How many features iTunes 1 had compared to iTunes 7...think about it & you will yourself find out that to run an OS you do not require much RAM. But to run the applications you require more RAM as the application demands. 

512 MB is common these days, everyone buys it. It costs Rs 1500 max in lucknow & those who want to run Vista will upgrade usually cos they know the benifits Vista will provide for there work.

Those who do not want to run vista, well.....Linux is there which doesn't provides many features compared to Vista (proved many times) resulting in low memory requirment for the OS & Applications which run on top of Linux.

Compare this statement to one given by the self proclaimed "Mac Genius".


			
				arya said:
			
		

> "MacOS X runs fine on 10 years old Mac"



 10 years ago Mac used to come with PowerPC G3 CPU with 64 MB System RAM & 8/16 MB nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 or ATI Rage graphics card. Try running MacOS X on that computer & then come here & tell how "usable" it runs.


----------



## assasin (May 22, 2007)

if u Mac guys r trying to find fault with Vista by saying that it has huge sys reqs,i wud like to say that atleast Vista allows u to use a wide array of hardware in ur pc,which to some xtent Linux is now supporting but with Mac OS X,the reality is that mac users dont hav the freedom to use watever hardware they feel like with their pc ..err...sorry Macs


----------



## QwertyManiac (May 22, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> yeah sure i do understand usable state, i hope you understand and read my post carefully! i said i saw it running fine, means it was running fine.... no problems.. and in usable state..
> 
> what to remind.. i thought you had some common sense.. you are a old member , should show some sense in your language..


Haha am glad you still don't understand what usable means. I kick a stone, it moves. It doesn't turn into gold.


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> yeah sure i do understand usable state, i hope you understand and read my post carefully! i said i saw it running fine, means it was running fine.... no problems.. and in usable state..


 Usable does not mean running notepad on your system. That is not known as running "fine"...that is just known as "running" and I really don't believe that you ever saw XP running on 64MB RAM. You can take a poll in Chit Chat section and ask them whether they could ever run XP in a "fine state" on 64 MB RAM. If you get more than 20% people saying "yes" then I would believe you.

In any case if we go by the same logic and accept that Windows Vista will be "usable" at 1GB just like how Windows XP was usable with 64MB then do we take it that for running every extra application we will need extra RAM? Does it mean that if I want to run Microsoft Office 2007 then I will need 256MB RAM more? Add 50MB more for iTunes, 30 MB more for Yahoo messenger, 30 MB more for MSN Messenger, 80 MB more for Firefox, 100 MB more for Norton Antivirus, 50 MB more for an anti-spyware of your choice, 60 MB more for a non-default Firewall, 30 MB more for a bandwidth monitoring software and 40 MB more for a download manager. This brings the total to 726MB. If I tried to open a Adobe Photoshop Instance then the requirement will jump straight to 1GB "extra RAM". You need all these applications to make your system "usable"...and it is clear that if you don't have at least 2.5 - 3GB RAM on your Vista system then you will experience lags while using all these applications simultaneously. When I am buying a $400 operating system...I don't buy it for using notepad or playing solitaire on it.

P.S. All the RAM requirements mentioned by me are approximate and some programs may use more while some may use less.


----------



## assasin (May 22, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> In any case if we go by the same logic and accept that Windows Vista will be "usable" at 1GB just like how Windows XP was usable with 64MB then do we take it that for running every extra application we will need extra RAM? Does it mean that if I want to run Microsoft Office 2007 then I will need 256MB RAM more? Add 50MB more for iTunes, 30 MB more for Yahoo messenger, 30 MB more for MSN Messenger, 80 MB more for Firefox, 100 MB more for Norton Antivirus, 50 MB more for an anti-spyware of your choice, 60 MB more for a non-default Firewall, 30 MB more for a bandwidth monitoring software and 40 MB more for a download manager. This brings the total to 726MB. If I tried to open a Adobe Photoshop Instance then the requirement will jump straight to 1GB "extra RAM".


 
Its the job of the OS to manage the available system mem to all the apps that req sys mem.even if u dont hav enough ram but a app needs it then the OS uses pagefile.
read thru any Operating System book and get the idea.



> You need all these applications to make your system "usable"...and it is clear that if you don't have at least 2.5 - 3GB RAM on your Vista system then you will experience lags while using all these applications simultaneously.


 
WTF .i've been using Vista on 1GB for 4months and i didnt face any 'LAG' in multitasking and ma system was perfectly "USABLE".the only lag i faced was in games with high sys req such as R6 Vegas,but now with 2GB ram everything is fine.NO MORE SYSTEM LAGS while playing games.
and ur saying that one will req min 2.5-3GB of sys ram to run Vista.
Get a life dood.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 22, 2007)

in my opinion XP is perfectly usable on 256MB of RAM , i my config itself is on 256 Mb DDR 333 RAM n 2.8 GHz Northwood n i can do all things except playing high-end games(GTA Vice CIty , which is the only game i ever play runs fine on 256MB n 845 Integrated GFX ) so it's perfectly usable for me .



			
				assasin said:
			
		

> WTF .i've been using Vista on 1GB for 4months and i didnt face any 'LAG' in multitasking and ma system was perfectly "USABLE".the only lag i faced was in games with high sys req such as R6 Vegas,but now with 2GB ram everything is fine.NO MORE SYSTEM LAGS while playing games.
> and ur saying that one will req min 2.5-3GB of sys ram to run Vista.
> Get a life dood.


  Rightly Said , in my building too an Uncle Runs Vista on 1 GB of ram n his system is perfectly fine , not a single lag and he's a designer but his system never becomes slow even when working on photoshop , illustrator , etc , so i don't see any reason why VIsta isn't fine on 1 GB .

Well *Arya as for Windows n Mac Software GUI Comparison i think you searched very hard for the ugliest application you could find to compare*  

Well here r some apps that i use and which i must say r both Good on the eyes and as functional .

*Office Accounting 2007 Express*

*farm1.static.flickr.com/121/286257178_675b52991c.jpg

*Windows Media Player 11*

*farm1.static.flickr.com/220/509488914_a9ea7ef822.jpg

*Office Word 2007*

*farm1.static.flickr.com/203/509488908_2f27d8d3a0.jpg

*Expression Web*

*farm1.static.flickr.com/88/240576365_2f1e49e0ae.jpg


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> Its the job of the OS to manage the available system mem to all the apps that req sys mem.even if u dont hav enough ram but a app needs it then the OS uses pagefile.


...and pagefile helps you when you are out of RAM? Do you realise that swapping or pagefile is one of the biggest bottle neck in your system performance? Giving an example of Pagefile in a discussion where RAM is being talked about is like talking about old Fiat in a discussion about Ferrari 


> WTF .i've been using Vista on 1GB for 4months and i didnt face any 'LAG' in multitasking and ma system was perfectly "USABLE".


We are not talking about using Notepad or Internet surfing. Time to wake up and smell the coffee?





> Get a life dood.


 LOL!!! 
No offense but how old are you?


----------



## assasin (May 22, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> ...and pagefile helps you when you are out of RAM? Do you realise that swapping or pagefile is one of the biggest bottle neck in your system performance? Giving an example of Pagefile in a discussion where RAM is being talked about is like talking about old Fiat in a discussion about Ferrari


 
even if u hav 4GB system ram in Vista Pagefile will be used.page file not only used when the system runs short of system memory,but its used the proccy and system schedulers.its also used to store the mem address occupied by the diff apps using sys memory.so know ur basics first then make a post.OK.
my 1st pc was a Compaq SR1130IL which was a P4 2.8GHz Northwood,MSI 845 chipset mobo and 256MB ram and i've games like POP SOT on it using 3D analyzer cuz the onboarrd gfx was crap.



> We are not talking about using Notepad or Internet surfing. Time to wake up and smell the coffee? LOL!!!


 
its no use taking to u.man wat did i tell ya that Vista runs fine and is fully usable on 1GB of system ram.i used to rip dvd,install games,photoshop and surf the net all at the same time on 1GB of system ram.no one xcept u is here is talking bout using 'Notepad' or Internet sufing.only noobs do that sort of multitasking on their pcs.[/quote]


----------



## aryayush (May 22, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 10 years ago Mac used to come with PowerPC G3 CPU with 64 MB System RAM & 8/16 MB nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 or ATI Rage graphics card. Try running MacOS X on that computer & then come here & tell how "usable" it runs.


Yes, I said it and it is hundred percent correct. Ten year old Macs came with 128 MB of RAM. Yes, you will have to upgrade the RAM to 512 MB (because Mac OS X runs slow while multi-tasking on 256 MB of RAM) but you can run Mac OS X very easily and properly on ten year old Macs running on G3 processors. A lot of people on the digg comment strings have even posted pictures of Mac OS X running on their ten year old Macs. And not just Tiger, even Leopard will run fine on those Macs when it is released. You cannot run Vista even on a five year old PC.

@Zeeshan Quireshi,
First of all, the first and second screenshots are nothing special. Show them to any Mac user and they will refuse to use such ugly applications.
And Windows Media Player, Office and Vista are good looking applications (or in the case of Vista, operating system). Yes, everyone knows that. But that is only two applications. Throw the forthcoming version of Yahoo! Messenger and Yahoo! Widgets into the fray. That makes four. Add six applications randomly (though I am sure you won't find six more good looking applications for Windows). Ten. WOW! What a huge total!

I can prove to you that Windows has applications that look like crap and that Windows users are devoid of any taste. The reason is that Windows users think that Nero and Norton Antivirus have good interfaces. HA! HA! These are ugly applications. Look at the screenshots of Cha-Ching and Coda. Better still, use them. You'll come to know what user interface design is all about. (But with that thick blindfold shrouding your vision, I doubt you'll be able to appreciate something better.)

The worst designed applications for Mac OS X look and work better than their counterparts for Windows.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 22, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Yes, you will have to upgrade the RAM to 512 MB (because Mac OS X runs slow while multi-tasking on 256 MB of RAM) bu*t you can run Mac OS X very easily and properly on ten year old Macs running on G3 processors*. A lot of people on the digg comment strings have even posted pictures of Mac OS X running on their ten year old Macs. And not just Tiger, even Leopard will run fine on those Macs when it is released. You cannot run Vista even on a five year old PC.


Hmm...Pentium 4 2.4 GHz with 400 MHz FSB came in 2003, which is 4 years old. Pentium 4 2 GHz northwood came in 2003 start well....Vista runs fine on it in without Aero. Add in a Geforce FX 5200 & vista runs fine with aero.

MacOS X Tiger was relesed in 2004 boy, today the application require more RAM to run it. Want me to show u screenshots of how good it is running on my PC to check the performance on 1 GB, multitasking is tough here in my case atleast.

if we use only the bundled applications of Windows Vista then 512 MB is enough. Not everyone uses Photoshop

Link us to those Digg articles plz.

& Yes, we can run Vista on 5 years old PCs easily without aero & 512 MB RAM.  ask soura he installed it on his old Acer laptop which has Mirage/Sevage graphics (i guess)



@Zeeshan Quireshi,


> And Windows Media Player, Office and Vista are good looking applications. Yes, everyone knows that. That is only two applications. Throw the forthcoming version of Yahoo! Messenger and Yahoo! Widgets into the fray. That makes four. Add six applications randomly (though I am sure you won't find six more good looking applications for Windows). *Ten. WOW! What a huge total!*


10..wow, in just 4 month of official relesae of Vista...nice.


> I can prove to you that Windows has applications that look like crap and that Windows users are devoid of any taste.


Do so.



> The reason is that Windows users think that Nero and Norton Antivirus have good interfaces.


Which member in this forum ever said these to have good interface? Are you asking your next door windows noob



> The worst designed applications for Mac OS X look and work better than their counterparts for Windows.


& Nokia makes bread while Coka cola makes engine oil.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 22, 2007)

*alphaomega.software.free.fr/plaintexteditor/Documentation/screenshot.jpg 
this has to be one of the ugliest mac apps ever , n no it isn't better than Wordpad shipped by default with Windows .


----------



## led_shankar (May 22, 2007)

vi is the best looking software in the world. 

@ZQ: dont youu think a better comparison would be with notepad?


----------



## aryayush (May 22, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Link us to those Digg articles plz.


(1) I do not save the links of digg submissions I come across so that I can show them to someone later.
(2) You are not important enough to me anyway.
(3) Use Google (if you know how to). If you don't find it, I can quote Tobey Maguire here: "I missed the part where that is my problem."



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> MacOS X Tiger was relesed in 2004 boy, today the application require more RAM to run it. Want me to show u screenshots of how good it is running on my PC to check the performance on 1 GB, multitasking is tough here in my case atleast.


(1) You are using it illegally on officially unsupported hardware.
(2) You do not know how to multi-task anyway, being used to Windows' interface (the biggest and most prominent example is that you prefer 'Alt + Tab' to Exposé and cannot work with several windows at once, which is what the Mac interface encourages).
(3) Anand uses a Mac Mini with 512 MB of RAM. AFAIK (and he has told me this), the operating system runs fine and he uses fifteen applications at once. Of course, if you insist on using Photoshop or FCP with 512 MB of RAM, you do not know anything about how computers work (which you do not anyway, so it hardly comes as a surprise).
(4) How can I be sure the biggest liar on this forum is not lying right now!


By the way, Vista without Aero is Windows XP.




			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 10..wow, in just 4 month of official relesae of Vista...nice.


(1) If you had posted this statement on digg, you would have been buried as lame faster than you can spell your name (which, given your knowledge of English, must take you considerable amount of time anyway).
(2) Then again, maybe it is a spectacular achievement that Vista had ten whole well designed applications in four months of its release (the APIs were released a lot earlier, I guess). Oh, and where are the ten applications? I know only Office, Windows Live Messenger and Yahoo! Widgets (which does not look even half as good as Dashboard does). That's three applications. Even if you can mention twenty more names, that is still very lame for an operating system that is considered the standard as far as operating systems go.

As for Nero, I have met _many_ people who think it has a good interface. Almost everyone I know uses Nero and most people give the reason that it has a good interface. If any of them saw Roxio Toast, they would change their minds as quickly as Windows XP used to crash (but Vista doesn't). You won't. You will think Toast has a crap interface because in "gx_saurav speak":
Good = Bad
Bad = Good.



			
				Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> *alphaomega.software.free.fr/plaintexteditor/Documentation/screenshot.jpg
> this has to be one of the ugliest mac apps ever , n no it isn't better than Wordpad shipped by default with Windows .


Oh, and what it ugly about it! It is supposed to do one thing, let you type text without giving you any confusing choices and buttons. It does that. It is perfect and it looks better than both Notepad and Wordpad. (Why does Windows have two applications by default for basically the same purpose!  )

You purposely gave the text a garish pink background to give it an ugly look. It is hardly the application's fault that you have such a ridiculously bad choice of colours.


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> even if u hav 4GB system ram in Vista Pagefile will be used.page file not only used when the system runs short of system memory,but its used the proccy and system schedulers.its also used to store the mem address occupied by the diff apps using sys memory.so know ur basics first then make a post.OK.


The whole description you just gave is not about Pagefile but about Virtual Memory. There is an enormous difference between the two and you really need to clear YOUR OWN basics before you pounce on other people. There are people in here who are actually coding...patching and replacing their CPU & System schedulers and you are not one of them. Be absolutely clear of what you say or else you risk looking like an absolute buffoon.





> its no use taking to u.man wat did i tell ya that Vista runs fine and is fully usable on 1GB of system ram.i used to rip dvd,install games,photoshop and surf the net all at the same time on 1GB of system ram.no one xcept u is here is talking bout using 'Notepad' or Internet sufing.only noobs do that sort of multitasking on their pcs.


Yeah its no use talking to me...you are the intelligent one in here who doesn't know what he is talking about but feels he is an expert about everything. Go out and play cricket...or do they call it bat-ball at your age? 



			
				kenshin1988 said:
			
		

> I use vista 512 ram.....playin POP:WW,POP:T2T...and many more....and i hv a onboard intel GMA....it works fine for me though...


 You should really contact Microsoft immediately. They are acting really stupid by mentioning such high system requirements.


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## kalpik (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> even if u hav 4GB system ram in Vista Pagefile will be used.*page file not only used when the system runs short of system memory,but its used the proccy and system schedulers.its also used to store the mem address occupied by the diff apps using sys memory*.so know ur basics first then make a post.OK.


Umm.. I have 1 GB of ram. I have allocated 512 mb as swap.. And i've NOT seen my swap go above 200 MB even when im running VMware. 99.99% of the times, the used swap is 0 MB. Now you yourself have pointed out how bad the memory management of Vista is.. It uses swap even when its not required???


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## assasin (May 22, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> (1) You are using it illegally on officially unsupported hardware.
> (2) You do not know how to multi-task anyway, being used to Windows' interface (the biggest and most prominent example is that you prefer 'Alt + Tab' to Exposé and cannot work with several windows at once, which is what the Mac interface encourages).


 
(1) So wat?r u worried that the xclusive ness of Mac OS X has been lost??

(2)most ppl around the globe use pcs and not Macs.so wat do ya wanna suggest that only u Mac users know how to multi-task and not use the pc users??
u gotta be kiddin man and stop dreaming.if wat u say had been the original scenario then most of us wud hav been using Macs instead of pcs.
but most of u know wat the real deal is...dont we guys??


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Umm.. I have 1 GB of ram. I have allocated 512 mb as swap.. And i've NOT seen my swap go above 200 MB even when im running VMware. 99.99% of the times, the used swap is 0 MB. Now you yourself have pointed out how bad the memory management of Vista is.. *It uses swap even when its not required???*


 The thing is that he doesn't know what he is talking about  CPU schedulers and Pagefile! LMAO


----------



## kalpik (May 22, 2007)

Heh.. i know.. was just having some fun.. 

Its funny when people think that they have the "ultimate" knowledge about a thing and the rest of us are fools..

More here: *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=486928&postcount=68


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## aryayush (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> (1) So wat?r u worried that the xclusive ness of Mac OS X has been lost??


WOW! A bigger idiot than gx_saurav!! That is quite an achievement.
I was saying that if you run a piece of software on unsupported hardware (that the software is designed _not_ to run on), you can hardly blame the software if it is not performing up to scratch.
"OMG! Vista is not running on my toaster, what a crap operating system!" 

I used to run Vista and Ubuntu on virtual machines on top of Mac OS X (with 512 megabytes of RAM alloted to each OS) on my MacBook Pro. I also used Photoshop in the meanwhile and regular Internet browsing. I never shut down my Mac so it used to stay in this state for days and it used to run smoothly for the most part. Yes, there was a bit of a jerkiness here and there in some of the animations (specially of Front Row which is currently beta software) but it performed absolutely fine.


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## assasin (May 22, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> The whole description you just gave is not about Pagefile but about Virtual Memory. There is an enormous difference between the two and you really need to clear YOUR OWN basics before you pounce on other people. There are people in here who are actually coding...patching and replacing their CPU & System schedulers and you are not one of them. Be absolutely clear of what you say or else you risk looking like an absolute buffoon.Yeah its no use talking to me...you are the intelligent one in here who doesn't know what he is talking about but feels he is an expert about everything. Go out and play cricket...or do they call it bat-ball at your age?


 
WTF 
do ya even know wat ur taking bout??dou know the diff between pagefile and virtual memory??first know it and then come out and post,else count stars in the sky.

This is a method of extending the available physical memory on a computer. In a virtual memory system, the operating system creates a pagefile, or swapfile, and divides memory into units called pages. Recently referenced pages are located in physical memory, or RAM. If a page of memory is not referenced for a while, it is written to the pagefile. This is called "swapping" or "paging out" memory. If that piece of memory is then later referenced by a program, the operating system reads the memory page back from the pagefile into physical memory, also called "swapping" or "paging in" memory. The total amount of memory that is available to programs is the amount of physical memory in the computer in addition to the size of the pagefile. 

Source:*www.computermemoryupgrade.net/faqs-on-memory.html

now u guys r being stubborn and not accepting the fact that Vista runs fine on 1GB ram.

@kalpik   ,which OS r u using??


----------



## kalpik (May 22, 2007)

assasin, im using Ubuntu Feisty. As we speak, im running firefox, azureus, pidgin and a full fledged PCLinuxOS under virtualbox. As can be seen from the screenshot, i STILL have ~300MB free ram left and used swap is just 33 MB.

*img382.imageshack.us/img382/5836/screenshotgc3.th.png

Just realised that if i close Virtualbox, my used RAM is just 300 MB


----------



## eddie (May 22, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> WTF
> do ya even know wat ur taking bout??dou know the diff between pagefile and virtual memory??first know it and then come out and post,else count stars in the sky.


Man...Windows does make your brain cells loose. Isn't it? You funny guy...tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed by CPU and System schedulers? Tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed to store memory addresses even if you have free RAM? Do you even know where all these things are stored or did you just learn some big names and vomited in front of us? Also don't you read what you quote?





> This is a method of extending the available physical memory on a computer.


Don't you understand what is the meaning of extension? Your bluff has been called off...your bubble is burst...now go back in the cave you came from. I still can't stop laughing though. Pagefile is required by CPU and system schedulers.  *us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif Some of you Windows guys make really funny jokes!





> now u guys r being stubborn and not accepting the fact that Vista runs fine on 1GB ram.


Yeah we are being stubborn!!! BTW for your information...we can see your signature...*2*1GB DDR2 667*


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

Since you brought up his signature, I have a humble request, please stop insulting the poor Mac OS X by forcing it to sit there next to Vista.

@assasin,
Dude, you seriously chose the wrong people to indulge with. People like kalpik and eddie know their stuff. And this may be a bit blunt but well, you don't.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> (1) I do not save the links of digg submissions I come across so that I can show them to someone later.


Do not talk about something if you cannot prove it.



> (2) You are not important enough to me anyway.


That I can see here, that despite of saying "I m out of here" you are back 



> (3) Use Google (if you know how to). If you don't find it, I can quote Tobey Maguire here: "I missed the part where that is my problem."


Google, then why do we need forums for help.?


> (1) You are using it illegally on officially unsupported hardware.


:Yawn , next......(jealousy that I did not paid 1.5lakh for it )

(





> 2) You do not know how to multi-task anyway, being used to Windows' interface (the biggest and most prominent example is that you prefer 'Alt + Tab' to Exposé and cannot work with several windows at once, which is what the Mac interface encourages)


Hmm...multitasking, does that includes running 3Ds Max with genetica & Photoshop CS3, chating in Yahoo Messenger while posting here in Firefox & using utorrent to download Heroes along with WMP11 for music & Ad muncher & Yahoo Wigets in the background & copying songs to my phone vis windows explorer.? Umm....total 23 Windows open right now.....all using statc alt+tab or alt+Tab & clicking on that window thumbnail.



> (3) Anand uses a Mac Mini with 512 MB of RAM. AFAIK (and he has told me this), the operating system runs fine and he uses fifteen applications at once.


So, 15 windows....what are you trying to prove that on Mac you can open more application then Windows? Grow up boy & do some research on how memory management of an OS works....ever heard of superfetch & prefetch in Vista. The apps which you "see" on screen is in the system RAM, & which you don't goes in swap file.



> Of course, if you insist on using Photoshop or FCP with 512 MB of RAM, you do not know anything about how computers work *(which you do not anyway, so it hardly comes as a surprise).*


Only little jealous & frustrated kids try to downplay others showing there stupidity 



> (4) How can I be sure the biggest liar on this forum is not lying right now!


Don't be sure, you are not that important anyway. The truth is important which is being revealed here on the forum.



> By the way, Vista without Aero is Windows XP.


Vista Without Aero = Windows XP + Live search + DirectX 10 + OpenAL + Superfetch + WIA + Windows Preview + Windows Mobility centre + Windows Ink engine (Tablet PC component)...etc etc etc



> (1) If you had posted this statement on digg, you would have been buried as lame faster than you can spell your name (which, given your knowledge of English, must take you considerable amount of time anyway).


Someone doesn't have anything valid & to the point to speak of 



> (2) Then again, maybe it is a spectacular achievement that Vista had ten whole well designed applications in four months of its release *(the APIs were released a lot earlier, I guess).*


In beta yes, but that is just for developing priliminary applications engine cos .net 3.0 was not final till novembar 30 2006. We can't be sure, who knows maybe the whole old .net 3.0 codebase was scrapped when Vista was send to RTM



> Oh, and where are the ten applications? I know only Office, Windows Live Messenger and Yahoo! Widgets *(which does not look even half as good as Dashboard does). *


Obviously it won't, cos you don't know how to mod or customize your OS. You like to use it at default state.



> That's three applications. Even if you can mention twenty more names, that is still very lame for an operating system that is considered the standard as far as operating systems go.


The OS was released to public 4 months ago & requirs compleately new app UI to be made in .net 3.0, I hope you know that developing an application to run on millions of computer configuration takes time.



> As for Nero, I have met _many_ people who think it has a good interface. Almost everyone I know uses Nero and most people give the reason that it has a good interface. If any of them saw Roxio Toast, they would change their minds as quickly as Windows XP used to crash (but Vista doesn't). You won't. You will think Toast has a crap interface because in "gx_saurav speak":
> Good = Bad
> Bad = Good.


I wonder who those "many" people are. You next door neighbours who u don't help in anything computer? 

Oh I forgot, I don't believe you that people told you that Nero has a good interface 

I m not using Toast, 130 MB for Toast titanium 8...wow & I thought nero was bloat.



> Oh, and what it ugly about it! It is supposed to do one thing, let you type text without giving you any confusing choices and buttons. It does that. It is perfect and it looks better than both Notepad and Wordpad. (Why does Windows have two applications by default for basically the same purpose!  )


Boy seriously...if you call that non-ugly....then plz for Adobe's sake do not work on Photoshop anymore 



> You purposely gave the text a garish pink background to give it an ugly look. It is hardly the application's fault that you have such a ridiculously bad choice of colours.


The old macboy philosophy, if it is not praising Mac "It is ****ing biased review"



> WOW! A bigger idiot than gx_saurav!!


*Reported 6th post in this thread. Where are the admins? or are the reports getting hijacked by the mods.*



> I used to run *Vista and Ubuntu on virtual machines on top of Mac OS X *(with 512 megabytes of RAM alloted to each OS) on my MacBook Pro. I also used Photoshop in the meanwhile and regular Internet browsing. I never shut down my Mac so it used to stay in this state for days and it used to run smoothly for the most part. Yes, there was a bit of a jerkiness here and there in some of the animations (specially of Front Row which is currently beta software) but it performed absolutely fine.


Together at one time? You got 2 GB RAM right, so what are you trying to prove here? Even Windows has been doing this since ages with 2 GB RAM.



> i STILL have ~300MB free ram left and used swap is just 33 MB.


Kalpik, thats the difference between Linux & Vista's memory management. *Vista doesn't leaves out free RAM anymore. It caches everything it can & when some application asks for RAM it flushes the cache. Also knows as superfetch.

*img462.imageshack.us/img462/8264/tasklj9.jpg
*
Now, how can I have 15 MB Memory free (Task manager) as well as 400+ MB Memory free (RAM Monitor)  both together. 





> Dude, you seriously chose the wrong people to indulge with. People like kalpik and eddie know their stuff. And this may be a bit blunt but well, you don't.


Kalpik...yes
Eddie ...Questionable.

They both know nothing about how Windows works.

Good night.


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## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

^^ GX, the thing you are talking about.. Vista using RAM as cache, linux has been doing that since AGES! And i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux). Also, when i said that i have 300 MB free ram, i mean it in the same sense as RAM monitor is showing you on Vista. So that 300 MB is used for cache, but it can be readily made available to other applications.

So effectively, you have 400 MB free with just vista running (i cant see any applications open either) and i have 300 MB free with 2 OSs running


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## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> ^^ GX, the thing you are talking about.. Vista using RAM as cache, linux has been doing that since AGES! And i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux). Also, when i said that i have 300 MB free ram, i mean it in the same sense as RAM monitor is showing you on Vista. So that 300 MB is used for cache, but it can be readily made available to other applications.


Yup, then why are we arguing? We are both saying the same thing that Vista manages RAM much more efficiently then any previous version of Windows.


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## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

I'm not arguing, I agree Vista has improved a LOT on the memory management front, i was just proving that assassin was wrong about what he was saying about the page file 
Though Vista has improved on memory management, but still that doesn't stop me from calling it a resource hog.


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## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

The screenshot Zeeshan posted was for Word 2007 on Windows XP, where blue matches.....but black rox on Vista.

*img371.imageshack.us/img371/6908/wordwp8.th.jpg



> I'm not arguing, I agree Vista has improved a LOT on the memory management front, i was just proving that assassin was wrong about what he was saying about the page file
> Though Vista has improved on memory management, but still that doesn't stop me from calling it a resource hog.



Here is how pagefile on Windows works

You have several application open on you computer. Now All of them are running together but at any given time you are working or better said looking at one application only. That application Window is on top. At this point, all those apps which are either minimised, or running in background like utorrent or Ad muncher goes into page file, reason...cos they don't need to be in system RAM for them to work. They can run directly from the pagefile cos they are running in background.

The best example is to start utorrent & start playing a game. Now minimize the game using alt+TAb or Pressing the Windows Key on keyboard. Start task manager & look yourself that utorrent is eating only 1 MB RAM while all the RAM usage is in Page file. (Example).

If something is not on screen, it doesn't need to stay in system RAM. If it is called upon, it comes back from pagefile to system RAM or runs directly from page file depending on the application cos page file is nothing but virtual RAM emulated by an OS.


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## assasin (May 23, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed by CPU and System schedulers?


 
The mid-term scheduler, present in all systems with virtual memory(pagefile), temporarily removes processes from main memory and places them on secondary memory (such as a disk drive) or vice versa. This is commonly referred to as "swapping out" or "swapping in" (also incorrectly as "paging out" or "paging in"). The mid-term scheduler may decide to swap out a process which has not been active for some time, or a process which has a low priority, or a process which is page faulting frequently, or a process which is taking up a large amount of memory in order to free up main memory for other processes, swapping the process back in later when more memory is available, or when the process has been unblocked and is no longer waiting for a resource. [Stallings, 396] [Stallings, 370]
In many systems today (those that support mapping virtual address space to secondary storage other than the swap file), the mid-term scheduler may actually perform the role of the long-term scheduler, by treating binaries as "swapped out processes" upon their execution. In this way, when a segment of the binary is required it can be swapped in on demand, or "lazy loaded". [Stallings, 394]

the page no. of the book from which i hav sourced this article is given in brackets,so that u can verify it.

i hav 2GB ram cuz i need it for playing all the latest games and not for running Vista.


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## eddie (May 23, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> the page no. of the book from which i hav sourced this article is given in brackets,so that u can verify it.


 You have sourced the article from the book?

Anyways...you should really read that part you just wrote and understand. It should now be clear to you that the Pagefile is used when main memory needs to be freed. It is a known fact that schedulers don't depend on Pagefile or swap file for their functioning. It is a part of their job...but not a dependency. A scheduler will work fine irrespective of whether you have a Pagefile on your system or not. The sole reason behind Pagefile's existence is to extend your main memory (RAM) and give you a temporary space to keep some unneeded files and processes.


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## assasin (May 23, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> You have sourced the article from the book?
> 
> Anyways...you should really read that part you just wrote and understand. It should now be clear to you that the Pagefile is used when main memory needs to be freed. It is a known fact that schedulers don't depend on Pagefile or swap file for their functioning. It is a part of their job...but not a dependency. A scheduler will work fine irrespective of whether you have a Pagefile on your system or not. The sole reason behind Pagefile's existence is to extend your main memory (RAM) and give you a temporary space to keep some unneeded files and processes.


 
Yeah i sourced it from that book so that no one wud be able to implicate later that i've written some rubbish.

the purpose of the midterm scheduler is to swap process to and from the page file.most pcs dont hav that much system ram as wud be reqd by the level of multitasking been done these days.so if ur system doesnt hav page file the result will be an system whose multitasking abilities will be limited only by the amt of system mem available.
as far as dependency of schedular on pagefile is concerned,carefully understand wat the mid term schedular is there in the system for.


----------



## iMav (May 23, 2007)

hey guys dont hi-jack this thread x)

1 ood thing about safari:

pdf also open by default (though ie 7 opens xps)


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## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

PDF also open by default in IE 7 with Adobe reader installed. I just opened a 80 MB 3Ds Max 9 Bible in preview.....& the window went out of screen . I installed Adobe reader on Mac too,

iMav, thanx for the DVD & CD 



			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> So effectively, you have 400 MB free with just vista running (i cant see any applications open either) and i have 300 MB free with 2 OSs running



I just cut the relevent part of screenshot to post here


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *Reported 6th post in this thread. Where are the admins? or are the reports getting hijacked by the mods.*


Just because you keep reporting my posts and I don't yours does not mean the moderators cannot read what all you are typing. If you cannot take a little heat, why bother posting in the 'Fight Club', huh?

"Only the thick-skinned should enter."



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *Vista doesn't leaves out free RAM anymore. It caches everything it can & when some application asks for RAM it flushes the cache. Also knows as superfetch.*


Something Mac OS X has been doing since 2001 and the reason why it is said that Mac OS X has better memory management. But, of course, you used to think it was crap until Microsoft came along, copied the feature and incorporated it into their operating system. Suddenly, this is pure gold. We are all well aware of this long standing _whatever-MS-does-is-the-best-way-to-do-stuff_ attitude. 



			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux)


Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...


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## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

> Something Mac OS X has been doing since 2001 and the reason why it is said that Mac OS X has better memory management. But, of course, you used to think it was crap until Microsoft came along, copied the feature and incorporated it into their operating system. Suddenly, this is pure gold. We are all well aware of this long standing _whatever-MS-does-is-the-best-way-to-do-stuff_ attitude.



Yup, something MacOS X has been doing since 2001 thanx to its copied BSD Kernel taken from UNIX which has been doing this since ages. Damn you Microsoft, you had to make your own kernel & own memory management engine.



> Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...



Nope, actually this is your philosohy that "Apple can't be bad"


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I installed Adobe reader on Mac too,


Yeah, you have a pretty bad, "Windows-ish" habit of installing crap onto the OS and then blaming the operating system. Pray tell me, what was the big need for Adobe Reader when there is absolute and full-fledged support for PDFs throughout the operating system?!


----------



## iMav (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...


 every1 on this forum knows to whom this applies ... and yes its not gx and no prizes for guessing ... every1 knows the answer including u


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Yeah, you have a pretty bad, "Windows-ish" habit of installing crap onto the OS and then blaming the operating system. Pray tell me, what was the big need for Adobe Reader when there is absolute and full-fledged support for PDFs throughout the operating system?!



Simple, Preview hardly gives me features enough compared to Adobe Reader & it got very slow when i open that 3ds max bible pdf consisting of 600 pages. The pages are all not portrait so the Window needed to be re-zomed for every page else the page would not fit in it.

I installed adobe reader, zoomer the Windows to max using manual mouse method & it worked fine & gave me proper layout.

Preview is more like Windows Photo gallery preview. Just made for preview not for doing full fledged tasks.


----------



## fortebuster (May 23, 2007)

Well, I haven't read through the whole of the thread but...


Macs Suck.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

Mac & Apple product do not suck. They are some of the most beautifully designed hardware.

*What sux is that they charge 4 times then what they should, Apple won't let us run MacOS X on the computer of our choice, neither will it let us upgrade the hardware of Mac ourself & the thing which sux the most is the elite feeling of Macboys when they fail to realize that they are also normal computer users like other OS users such as Linux or Windows. *

Nothing makes a Mac special....Macs are good, so are PCs so are toasters, whats the point of Apple down playing all competition acting elite when they themselves are sevearly flawed in the way they work & are one of the biggest copy cats themselves.

if it was about creating innovative hardware like Mac mini or imac G4 then even I would love to praise apple, however when it comes to creating an OS whose foundation (kernel) itself is not made by Apple & is borrowed from BSD then and so many more features, then Apple should be the last company to talk about innovation in software.


----------



## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> They can run directly from the pagefile cos they are running in background.


Umm.. NOTHING, i repeat! NOTHING can run from the pagefile. For anything to "run", it HAS to be loaded into the main memory (RAM). That's why i say an OS that uses less of the pagefile is FAR superior to an OS which uses more of the pagefile. The more of the pagefile you use, the more times you have to load the swapped page into the memory when its needed (AKA context switching), which WASTES a lot of time. Hope you agree on this!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

> Umm.. NOTHING, i repeat! NOTHING can run from the pagefile. For anything to "run", it HAS to be loaded into the main memory (RAM). That's why i say an OS that uses less of the pagefile is FAR superior to an OS which uses more of the pagefile. The more of the pagefile you use, the more times you have to load the swapped page into the memory when its needed (AKA context switching), which WASTES a lot of time. Hope you agree on this!



I guess I forgot to make it clear that way.

Nothing can indeed run from pagefile, but those application & process which do not require to be in system RAM will be moved to page file as & when needed, when required they will be called back to system RAM. This makes more room the apps which are running in front or at top. This is why I told you to try the example to run a game.


----------



## Vyasram (May 23, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s²



great quote


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> You purposely gave the text a garish pink background to give it an ugly look. It is hardly the application's fault that you have such a ridiculously bad choice of colours.


 Nope i didn't , it's the screenshot directly from the author's site , u can check it out urself 

*alphaomega.software.free.fr/plaintexteditor/Plain Text Editor.html

PS: Arya , please do read and verify your claims before posting coz it seems foolish that first you say something n then i prove you wrong 



			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> I'm not arguing, I agree Vista has improved a LOT on the memory management front, i was just proving that assassin was wrong about what he was saying about the page file
> Though Vista has improved on memory management, but still that doesn't stop me from calling it a resource hog.


 Kalpik , i Read somewhere(Technet or on MSDN) that *Vista Caches the most frequently used applications in it's memory* so say if you use Photoshop , Firefox , 3DS Max , Yahoo Messenger very frequently so *After startup Vista will load all the frequently used applicaions into RAM and although you won't see them open but they will be there in the RAM , thus when you open them they'll open Instantly* 

This is why u see that Vista Uses each and every bit of RAM available to it , it's not necessarily a resource hog , if u supply it with 2GB of RAM then it will load as much data possible into it , thus makin the Application startup much much faster(Although 1GB is enuf for Almost All things)


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

> Kalpik , i Read somewhere(Technet or on MSDN) that Vista Caches the most frequently used applications in it's memory so say if you use Photoshop , Firefox , 3DS Max , Yahoo Messenger very frequently so after startup Vista will load all the applicaions into RAM and although you won't see them open but they will be there in the RAM , thus when you open them they'll open Instantly



The ideal way to use Vista is to hibernate it. Though this takes away the novelty of dual boot cos then you do not get the dual boot menu & it boots directly in Vista, with all the apps already superfetched. Takes 10 seconds to start a computer in Vista, from button push to Desktop with hibernation enabled.


----------



## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

Zeeshan Quireshi said:
			
		

> Nope i didn't , it's the screenshot directly from theauthor's site , u can check it out urself
> 
> *alphaomega.software.free.fr/plaintexteditor/Plain%20Text%20Editor.html
> 
> Kalpik , i Read somewhere(Technet or on MSDN) that *Vista Caches the most frequently used applications in it's memory* so say if you use Photoshop , Firefox , 3DS Max , Yahoo Messenger very frequently so *After startup Vista will load all the frequently used applicaions into RAM and although you won't see them open but they will be there in the RAM , thus when you open them they'll open Instantly*


^^ Im sure that's not the case.. Vista does not load the recently used apps at startup. Please link me to the article, i would like to have a read. Maybe im wrong


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## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

Kalpik, he is not wrong. Vista loads frequently used apps in memory when the system boots or when you first launch that application. It closes down but the app & dlls are still in RAM. They stay there unless some other program asks for memory in which case Vista flushes down the RAM to give more memory to the application which demands it.

Example, start Windows Vista after a shut down. This clears the RAM. Now start some app like ACDSee & cloise it, now start it again & it will open instantly. Hibernate your computer...restart again & restart ACDsee again to open it instantly.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 23, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> ^^ Im sure that's not the case.. Vista does not load the recently used apps at startup. Please link me to the article, i would like to have a read. Maybe im wrong


*blogs.zdnet.com/Ratcliffe/?p=266

*blogs.zdnet.com/Ratcliffe/?p=267 

Hope this clarifies it 




			
				ZDNet said:
			
		

> Vista's new SuperFetch memory management technology is also demonstrating its strength. Superfetch prioritizes data in RAM by recency of use, but also analyzes user habits by time of day, day of week and activities, so it does a better job of cleaning house than XP or its predecessors.
> 
> For example, *if you open Skype all week long but never open it on Saturday, because on weekends you don't want to be disturbed by business calls, Superfetch will not keep Skype resources in memory as it would during the week.* It also optimizes reloading of applications and makes better use of RAM. When Firefox was closed and launched a second time, for example, Vista reduced its RAM usage by 25MB because some of the resources previously allocated to Skype are dropped.


----------



## soumya (May 23, 2007)

The bottomline is that Vista wins hands down cause :-

1) Vista Home Basic can run on much cheaper hardware than a Mac.

2) The library of softwares, games for any Window OS is much bigger than Mac. If not now, after a year it will be for Vista in particular.

3) Support would be much more in case of Vista because finding people using and knowing about Mac is like the chances of Angelina Jolie doing a Bollywood item number! 

And that's the bottomline cause Soumya said so!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

soumya said:
			
		

> The bottomline is that Vista wins hands down cause :-
> 
> 3) Support would be much more in case of Vista because finding people using and knowing about Mac is like the chances of Angelina Jolie doing a Bollywood item number!
> 
> And that's the bottomline cause Soumya said so!




Lolz.....that would be amazing though


----------



## freshseasons (May 23, 2007)

The scenario:
1)Resources: Almost Unlimited Budget.
2)Goalroductivity for Call Centre and Medical Transcription .
         Even if i had thought once for Mac for the kind of above needed office setup i would have been screwed big time.All the work that there is ;its done on Pc's and Windows based hardware.The Caller CRM Dialer that i use at my centres though linux based interacts just with Windows Environment as an client.Ask him for Mac support and answer is err....dont waste time...The Client at the other end is screaming and we have no such thing.Mac is good for home users , for serious office productivity its sacrilege.
       Its not even about software support its getting things done.For medical Transcription we need Foot Pedals and that needs serial port configuration where some times we need to add PCI card if we dont get serial port option.Ehh does one get to open Mac and change some fundamental things in hardware.
     I mean how difficult can an operating system and computer get.I hardly can get any thing configured on MAC.No US calling via Dialers for Call centres.No proper Medical Transcription support to get things done.(Well there are some but the very thought of using those hard techniques made my technical staff  run)  One would only run under such scenarios is if you are a mac aficionado and hate everything that is not MAC. I dont mean Windows is Perfect and All.But what i mean it Windows Gets Things done.After all isnt that the first reasons Computers are there for.To get things done.
    And I mean i have some Mac Friends who say Macs to exclusive to be used for labour work.Its a work of Art and is for that power home user...What Mac an Exclusive....!!!!I dont think so..Its the same.Its got Intel Duo Core , just like PC's, Same graphic card, Ram ,Harddrive and all. Its a PC after all colored white. 
       I think Theres a reasons for Mac Enthusiastic to staunchly support Macs.There has to be some justification on paying 4 times the price for same Processor,graphic and hardware enclosed in Fancy case.
   Comeon its a Total ripoff.
     I really feel so sorry for people who pay 4 times for the same generic hardware essentially and hand over their cash at the first turn of Demand for Decorated boxes or feed Steve Jobs Ego.
      When i buy a PC i buy hardware..and then decide on my Operating System..whether i want linux or Windows.I go propriety or Open-source.
   I Email,watch videos and movies on ...if not satisfied with sound,get Creative THX Platinum xtreme and setup my home theater.
  I play games and when i see some new games coming up i upgrade graphic card or gt that new mother board or use my Existing one by getting a new GP card and running in SLI. I choose what to upgrade and what i need.I choose my life.I dont run with Pocket full to Buy new Computer just if i need some functionality which is not there in my present Computer.


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

@gx_saurav and freshseasons,
Buy me a computer with the same specs as the Mac Mini at Rs. 8,250. Do it. I am giving you the money now. I am very curious to see how Macs are four times the price of regular PCs. I am in Kolkata, come and take the money from me and buy it today. Bunch of idiots!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> @gx_saurav and freshseasons,
> Buy me a computer with the same specs as the Mac Mini at Rs. 8,250. Do it. I am giving you the money now. I am very curious to see how Macs are four times the price of regular PCs. I am in Kolkata, come and take the money from me and buy it today. Bunch of idiots!


Do you know the meaning of the word "Example". I admit I over said the "4 times price thing" i will change it to 2 times & make a computer for u in 17k easily .


----------



## freshseasons (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> @gx_saurav and freshseasons,
> Buy me a computer with the same specs as the Mac Mini at Rs. 8,250. Do it. I am giving you the money now. I am very curious to see how Macs are four times the price of regular PCs. I am in Kolkata, come and take the money from me and buy it today. Bunch of idiots!


    Dont know where you got that imaginery figure of Rs 8,250 and what second hand model you are talking out. .Come out of pigeon hole and taste the reality.
   *www.asia.apple.com/store/india/macminin/newmacmini.htm
  A Simple Generic Mac Mini ( With min acceptable specification) 
  With minimum bare specification like:-
1)1.5 Solo core( NOT EVEN DUO) ,512mb ram,60GB drive , Combo Drive( NOT EVEN DVD Writer),and Wi-fi and Bluetooth. 
  IT COSTS A WHOPPING 35,500+TAXES and 
   This DOESNT include LCD or Monitor, Keyboard or Mouse ,No Speakers,NO DEDICATED GRAPHIC CARD.
  Hell, if is buy the above Stuff the price goes to 60,000 and what do i have .A 1.5 SOLO CORE,with 512 ram. Bloody i get a good decent Dell Laptop Duo Core with Nvidia Graphic in this price.
     If this is not a Rip -off i dont know what is...!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

freshseasons said:
			
		

> Dont know where you got that imaginery figure of Rs 8,250 and what second hand model you are talking out. .Come out of pigeon hole and taste the reality.
> *www.asia.apple.com/store/india/macminin/newmacmini.htm
> A Simple Generic Mac Mini ( With min acceptable specification)
> With minimum bare specification like:-
> ...



Bang on target....must have hurt the ego of mac boys 

By the way, bro u forgot to mention one thing. You cannot upgrade anything in Mac mini.

The real cost of Mac mini = Mac mini + Keyboard + Mouse + LCD Monitor + USB Hub + Speakers + Webcam (if needed)

Also, mac mini comes with onboard GMA 950 graphics & onboard AC97 Audio. We are paying 35k in which case we get Geforce 7300GT with 256 MB RAM & Onboard HD Audio in PC configuration.


----------



## soumya (May 23, 2007)

i really can't comprehend why these apple guys charge so much for the same hardware. i guess the reason is like that their market share is so low, that they need more money for selling a single piece of hardware! it sucks. And, haven't u guys seen the ads directed at Vista. Well, it goes with the proverb that when u can't reach the grapes, the grapes must be sour and I bet that Leopard cannot sell 40 million licenses in 100 days. So stop whining apple and start lowering ur hardware prices or else ur market share will always be like that of Rajnikanth in a US video library!


----------



## shantanu (May 23, 2007)

actually the thing is that.. Mac boy only know scratching their heads after having correct answers.. now they will look for fu cked up facts to show.. 

@kalpik.. you are a old memeber but first get some knowledge on windows and then speak... 

@qwerty.. i think you are a over smart person with high attitude and ego.. you are not president of america so stop your bull$hit..

@nepcker.. coca cola is making engine oil and APPLE is making dustbins for MAC users to throw their unusable macs in it.. 

*@some other MACCYasssses* .. your MAC pro is for $2600 (taxes Extra) with a little high config then the usual and i can buy two good pc's (vista compatible in it) with good gaming capablities...


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 23, 2007)

soumya said:
			
		

> So stop whining apple and start lowering ur hardware prices or else *ur market share will always be like that of Rajnikanth in a US video library!*


 ROFL *farm1.static.flickr.com/217/510658461_afdbb73060_o.gif *farm1.static.flickr.com/217/510658461_afdbb73060_o.gif *farm1.static.flickr.com/217/510658461_afdbb73060_o.gif


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

freshseasons said:
			
		

> Dont know where you got that imaginery figure of Rs 8,250 and what second hand model you are talking out. .Come out of pigeon hole and taste the reality.
> *www.asia.apple.com/store/india/macminin/newmacmini.htm
> A Simple Generic Mac Mini ( With min acceptable specification)
> With minimum bare specification like:-
> ...


Another lunatic who skipped English lessons when he was in school! I don't know why all these people register at the Digit forum.

First of all, Rs. 8,250 is not the price of the Mac Mini but is a quarter of the price of the base configuration of the Mac Mini. You and gx_saurav claimed that Macs are *four times more expensive* than PCs with similar configurations. So, buy me a sub-10,000 PC that has the specs of the Mac Mini.

And almost every spec you have there is wrong. Everything. You know as much about Macs as gx_saurav does (which is equal to nothing).

Buy me any Mac with a single core processor, any Mac at all. Unless you are talking about second hand stuff, you _cannot_ buy a single core Mac. There is no such thing. The cheapest Mac Mini comes with a *1.66GHz Intel Core Duo* processor, 512 MB of RAM, 60 GB HDD, a combo drive and *built-in speakers* as well. It has Wi-Fi, Ethernet, Bluetooth, Infrared, USB and FireWire. It also comes with an Apple Remote standard. And it costs *Rs. 33,000 including taxes*.

And to top it off, it comes in a tiny enclosure that weighs less than 1.5 KG (1.31 KG, to be precise). Leave the design, I know no other company in the World is capable of as excellent and innovative design as Apple is. Just buy me four computers that have similar specs to the Mac Mini and the total cost of which is less than/equal to Rs. 33,000. Do it now. I have the money ready here.

You know, a wise man's advice to you would be to just STFU when you know nothing about something. Opening your mouth only makes you look like a fool. Ask gx_saurav, he knows it well, having experienced the feeling often.


----------



## samanvya_ad (May 23, 2007)

i used to like Mac n i use both a PC with Vista/Xp n an iMac.... i was never an expert in mac... i just bought it cos i thought it to be cool... but the way few ppl are fighting for proving mac to be superior i think it gives a bad image to mac only ....

sadly it seems to me that now he is out of points n is scratching his head ...
he is teaching us english n is taking up certain mis understandings of english as his defence. Grow up boy... u have pissed many Mac users also

And   
 Gx_saurav  last to last year u helped me assemble my comp (thanks for that) n now u help me in thrashing Mac OS image n a total makeover of windows image....   i Love windows...


----------



## eddie (May 23, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> Yeah i sourced it from that book so that no one wud be able to implicate later that i've written some rubbish.


You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously ashamed!!! Now I've found 3 point blank liars on this forum who all happen to be Windows fanboys. Is it a disease that comes packaged with Windows CD/DVD? I tried to take a high road by giving you a chance and asking you once again that whether you actually got it from a book so that you could accept that it is not so; but you are such a liar that you don't have any dignity to save. Here...this is the "book you sourced it from"
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing)

A word-by-word copy from the article!!! Seriously man...don't you guys have any soul left? You don't have any real lives that you need to lie on online forums? How low can you guys go?





			
				assasin said:
			
		

> most pcs dont hav that much system ram as wud be reqd by the level of multitasking been done these days.so if ur system doesnt hav page file the result will be an system whose multitasking abilities will be limited only by the amt of system mem available.


I have not seen even a chameleon change his colours so fast. This is what you were saying sometime back... and I am quoting it here as well





			
				assasin said:
			
		

> *even if u hav 4GB system ram in Vista Pagefile will be used. page file not only used when the system runs short of system memory*,but its used the proccy and system schedulers.its also used to store the mem address occupied by the diff apps using sys memory.so know ur basics first then make a post.OK.


You were talking about pagefile being required by CPU Schedulers, System schedulers and memory address mappings...and now you are talking about multitasking? Is there a limit to your going down? Is there a limit where you save your face and actually accept that you knew nothing about your words?





			
				assasin said:
			
		

> as far as dependency of schedular on pagefile is concerned,carefully understand wat the mid term schedular is there in the system for.


 Yeah right...I need to take system internals and coding lessons from a liar and a chameleon's big brother


----------



## freshseasons (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Another lunatic who skipped English lessons when he was in school! I don't know why all these people register at the Digit forum.


   Yes finally ignorance is a virtue.Well proved.Kid your writing looks like you haven't even have been to an english school.


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> And almost every spec you have there is wrong. Everything. You know as much about Macs as gx_saurav does (which is equal to nothing).


     Boy you are on Drugs.I gave a direct link to Apple India site and the specs are clearly given there.
  Incase you missed it here it is. 
  *www.asia.apple.com/store/india/macminin/newmacmini.htm
  And boy i know lot about macs than you can ever claim to know.Cheez you dont even know, what there is on the Official Apple India site.Please take the effort to go through Apple Site rather than harassing people here with your ignorance.


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> Buy me any Mac with a single core processor, any Mac at all. Unless you are talking about second hand stuff, you _cannot_ buy a single core Mac. There is no such thing. The cheapest Mac Mini comes with a *1.66GHz Intel Core Duo* processor, 512 MB of RAM, 60 GB HDD, a combo drive and *built-in speakers* as well. It has Wi-Fi, Ethernet, Bluetooth, Infrared, USB and FireWire. It also comes with an Apple Remote standard. And it costs *Rs. 33,000 including taxes*.


    *www.asia.apple.com/store/india/macminin/newmacmini.htm
    Eat your Word!!!Please Again Visit the above link and Bask your self in reality..How can anyone be so ignorant ?The Apple site Clearly States ",1.5GHz Intel Core Solo processor",.Boy can you read or someones reads this forum for you and translates. 
   Now i am seriously confused whether you know anything about Apple.Hell you dont even know which Apple hardware exists and which doest.Have you ever seen an Apple Site before.



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> You know, a wise man's advice to you would be to just STFU when you know nothing about something. Opening your mouth only makes you look like a fool. Ask gx_saurav, he knows it well, having experienced the feeling often.


   I have proved my self by giving all the relevant Apple Site and who is Ignorant we know know.Bubble Burst!
  Ya one more thing.Wise man also Said" Higher the monkey Climbs , the more he shows his Behind".


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Another lunatic who skipped English lessons when he was in school! I don't know why all these people register at the Digit forum.



Another Macboy who has nothing to say so deviating the thread. Arya, we know your job as Mac genius is in danger cos now everyone knows how much you know about Apple hardware & Mac 



			
				arya said:
			
		

> First of all, Rs. 8,250 is not the price of the Mac Mini but is a quarter of the price of the base configuration of the Mac Mini. You and gx_saurav claimed that Macs are *four times more expensive* than PCs with similar





			
				Me said:
			
		

> Do you know the meaning of the word "Example"





> Buy me any Mac with a single core processor, any Mac at all. Unless you are talking about second hand stuff, you _cannot_ buy a single core Mac. There is no such thing. The cheapest Mac Mini comes with a *1.66GHz Intel Core Duo* processor, 512 MB of RAM, 60 GB HDD, a combo drive and *built-in speakers* as well. It has Wi-Fi, Ethernet, Bluetooth, Infrared, USB and FireWire. It also comes with an Apple Remote standard. And it costs *Rs. 33,000 including taxes*.



Then what is it given at freshseasons link? Is that Rapple Rac Mini ?



> And to top it off, it comes in a tiny enclosure that weighs less than 1.5 KG (1.31 KG, to be precise). Leave the design, I know no other company in the World is capable of as excellent and innovative design as Apple is



AOpen Pandora Box, Google for it 



> . Just buy me four computers that have similar specs to the Mac Mini and the total cost of which is less than/equal to Rs. 33,000. Do it now. I have the money ready here.



Sure, it is available with Monitor included in 35k 



			
				arya said:
			
		

> You know, a wise man's advice to you would be to just STFU when you know nothing about something. Opening your mouth only makes you look like a fool. Ask gx_saurav, he knows it well, having experienced the feeling often.



Frustration & pwnage at its best. You got nothing proper to say.



> he is teaching us english n is taking up certain mis understandings of english as his defence. Grow up boy... u have pissed many Mac users also



He has nothing to do....he doesn't know about computer hardware, Mac hardware, software, application Performance & UI....he is just a Macboy. Thats the best you can expect from him.

Freshseasons

He has a tendency to skip or overlook everything which proves a mac flaws & inferior. His eyes automatically shut down in that case.



> Ya one more thing.Wise man also Said" Higher the monkey Climbs , the more he shows his Behind"



:ROFL:


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 23, 2007)

Arya here r the specs of the Mac Mini directly from Apple India Site :


			
				Apple India said:
			
		

> Price: *INR  35,500 *
> 
> 1.5GHz *Intel Core Solo* processor
> 
> ...


 My box too has a buil-in Mono speaker too .

Also here's Config of iMac from Apple India Site :


			
				Apple India said:
			
		

> Price: INR 62,900
> 
> 17-inch widescreen LCD
> 
> ...


----------



## soumya (May 23, 2007)

Hey Guys have you read this article?

Apple Mac OS X Leopard Preview: Who's the Copycat Now?

Here are some highlights :-

Sometimes I wonder how Apple CEO Steve Jobs can sleep at night. He appears to spend half his waking hours ridiculing Microsoft's admittedly behind-schedule operating system, Windows Vista, for copying Mac OS X features. But this week at Apple's annual Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC), he announced ten new features for Leopard, the next version of OS X, most of which will seem more than vaguely familiar to Windows users. I'm not dim: Microsoft does copy Apple on a fairly regular basis. But seriously, Steve. Apple's just as bad.

If you watch the WWDC keynote telecast (and the accompanying "PC guy" intro video, both of which are available on the Apple Web site), you'll notice immediately that Apple is more than a little preoccupied with Windows Vista. That's understandable, since Windows is Mac OS X's primary competition (in the sense that 2 percent of the market is competition for Windows) and Apple was inspired by Vista features like Spotlight (er, sorry, Windows Search) when creating its previous OS X version, Tiger (see my review). 
*www.winsupersite.com/reviews/macosx_tiger.asp

Jobs was quick to tout the progress Apple has made with its OS since 2001, when both Windows XP and the first version of OS X shipped. "What have we been doing for the last five years?" he asked. "We've been putting out releases of OS X." He claimed that Apple shipped five "major" updates to OS X, including Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, and Tiger, though I'd argue that virtually none of those were major updates at all. (Unless you count the cost. At $129 for each version, that's about $750 on Mac OS X upgrades since 2001. That kind of puts the cost of Windows in perspective.) But he counted Tiger on Intel as a sixth major release, because of the effort in porting the OS X code to a new platform (which, actually, had been in the works for a long time and wasn't the 210 day project Jobs claimed).

By that measure, Microsoft has improved Windows by a far greater degree. In the same time frame, it has shipped Windows XP Home Edition, Windows XP Professional Edition, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (and 2005 UR2), Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005, Windows XP Home and Professional N Editions, Windows XP with Service Pack 2 (SP2, absolutely a big Windows upgrade), Windows XP Embedded, Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs, and Windows XP Starter Edition in various languages. Heck, I might be missing some versions. No, they're not all major releases (The N Editions? Eh.) But XP x64, like Tiger on Intel, was a major engineering effort. And Apple has nothing--absolutely nothing--like the Media Center and Tablet PC functionality that Microsoft has been refining now for several years. So let's put the silliness about Microsoft doing nothing for five years to rest, shall we?

He incorrectly alluded to the fact that Microsoft separated out its email application from Outlook and created Windows Mail, which in Apple's mind is very similar to Apple's Mail.app. That's untrue. Windows Mail is simply the latest version of Outlook Express, which is a decade old and has been part of Windows since 1998. Mail.app is a fine program, but come on.

Curiously, Serlet did not bring up Dashboard, Apple's environment for widgets, and Sidebar, Microsoft's environment for gadgets. That's good, because Apple stole Sidebar idea wholeheartedly from Konfabulator and other widget environments that predated Dashboard.

Lies, damnable lies, and statistics
More than any other company I cover regularly, Apple plays light and loose with facts. The company is so insidious with this behavior, in fact, that I could almost turn Apple myth busting into a full-time job if I thought someone would pay me to do it. Here's one example from the keynote:

Apple shipped 1.33 million Macs in the quarter ending June 30, 2006. It was their best Mac quarter ever. Jobs noted that the Mac's growth rate was "dramatically faster" than the rest of the PC industry, about 16.5 percent for the Mac, compared to just 6 percent for the PC. "We're gaining market share," Jobs declared triumphantly, to cheers. Ahem. Not so fast, Steve. In the previous quarter, the Mac's growth rate was significantly lower than that of the PC (13.1 percent for the PC vs. 4 percent for the Mac). More to the point, Apple's explosion growth in 2005 did nothing to help the Mac's market share, which is still mired at 2 percent worldwide. In other words, Steve's claim is baloney: Apple hasn't really gained any appreciable market share at all--indeed, Apple has lost market share every year since Jobs took the CEO helm--but his comment is technically true: In the slice of time that is the second quarter of 2006, Apple gained--get this--about 1/10th of one percent of market share. And the WWDC crowd goes wild. 

Read the full article here :-

*www.winsupersite.com/showcase/macosx_leopard_preview.asp


----------



## QwertyManiac (May 23, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> @qwerty.. i think you are a over smart person with high attitude and ego.. you are not president of america so stop your bull$hit..



Wont stop till you eat what you asked for. I might be oversmart (From what I see, even a 13 year old will consider himself that seeing your replies) but I sure dont run notepad and say "YAY my windows is usable".  You have problems hiding your crap, sign off.  For all I know, my keyboard AND brain both work fine while your latter doesnt.


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

@freshseasons and all those who are believing this idiot.

That is why I told you to actually try and _buy_ any Mac with a single core processor. You see, when you go out to any Apple Authorised Reseller to buy a Mac, they'll show you the Mac Mini which costs 33K and has the specs that I mentioned. The idiots at Apple do not give as much importance to India as they do other countries so the website is always outdated.

Here are the actual specifications:
*www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

I am hundred percent sure that this freshseasons guy knew about the actual specs and just wanted to use the Apple India site to his advantage. Everything comes to an end, boy.

Now show me a machine that costs four times less than it and has the same specs. I am still waiting...


@samanvya_ad,
I don't give a damn what you think. You do not know the long history of these flame wars. And if you have actually used a Mac (which I doubt), then you have liked it. And if your opinion is fickle and weird enough to change just because you did not like the attitude of one random Mac user (or maybe even hundred) on an online forum, I don't know how to respond to it.


----------



## eddie (May 23, 2007)

soumya said:
			
		

> in fact, that I could almost turn Apple myth busting into a full-time job if I thought someone would pay me to do it.


 If someone pays him for myth busting then he should really go for Microsoft myth busting. It will be a much more profitable and long term job prospect for him


----------



## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Kalpik, he is not wrong. *Vista loads frequently used apps in memory when the system boots or when you first launch that application.* It closes down but the app & dlls are still in RAM. They stay there unless some other program asks for memory in which case Vista flushes down the RAM to give more memory to the application which demands it.
> 
> Example, start Windows Vista after a shut down. This clears the RAM. Now start some app like ACDSee & cloise it, now start it again & it will open instantly. Hibernate your computer...restart again & restart ACDsee again to open it instantly.


@gx, zeeshan: When you first launch that application, agreed (which is what EVERY OS does, even XP did that, hell even 98 did that. So what's new?).
When the system boots, not agreed 
This is what you both claimed that vista loads programs on startup.. And i think im right on this one.. Unless you people can prove otherwise 



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> actually the thing is that.. Mac boy only know scratching their heads after having correct answers.. now they will look for fu cked up facts to show..
> 
> * @kalpik.. you are a old memeber but first get some knowledge on windows and then speak... *
> 
> ...


 Dude i am 110% sure that i know more about windows than you.. I can bet on that. So learn to act mature. You are on a public forum. Learn to respect others. It will help you in life. Your judgements about other people's knowledge are grossly skewed.

Can you give me an approximate count of the number of your posts that have actually _helped_ someone instead of just making flames?

Just out of curiosity, may i know your age?


----------



## aryayush (May 23, 2007)

This guy pops up every now and then to post some poorly worded and punctuated post that flames every other operating system apart from Windows and then disappears. If any one of his 1,685 posts makes any sense, I'll eat my tie (I don't wear any so I am not at risk anyway).


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

> The idiots at Apple do not give as much importance to India as they do other countries so the website is always outdated.



Apple & Idiot  how can u say that.


> I am hundred percent sure that this freshseasons guy knew about the actual specs and just wanted to use the Apple India site to his advantage. Everything comes to an end, *boy.*



You have no idea who he is boy 



> Now show me a machine that costs four times less than it and has the same specs. I am still waiting...



Again, do you know the meaning of the word example ?



> @samanvya_ad,
> I don't give a damn what you think. You do not know the long history of these flame wars. And if you have actually used a Mac (which I doubt), then you have liked it. And if your opinion is fickle and weird enough to change just because you did not like the attitude of one random Mac user (or maybe even hundred) on an online forum, I don't know how to respond to it.



Samanvya, he said the same to me before I proved in his own thread how flawed Mac is. If you want to try Mac, search on google.

@ kalpik

sure thing, will post a video after dinner


----------



## assasin (May 23, 2007)

eddie said:
			
		

> You should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously ashamed!!! Now I've found 3 point blank liars on this forum who all happen to be Windows fanboys. Is it a disease that comes packaged with Windows CD/DVD? I tried to take a high road by giving you a chance and asking you once again that whether you actually got it from a book so that you could accept that it is not so; but you are such a liar that you don't have any dignity to save. Here...this is the "book you sourced it from"
> *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheduling_(computing)


 
ok.the page no. of the book by william Stallings is given in bracket,so why dont u just check it out urself.if Wikipedia has sourced it from the book then wat can i do??



> A word-by-word copy from the article!!! Seriously man...don't you guys have any soul left? You don't have any real lives that you need to lie on online forums? How low can you guys go?I have not seen even a chameleon change his colours so fast. This is what you were saying sometime back... and I am quoting it here as wellYou were talking about pagefile being required by *CPU Schedulers, System schedulers and memory address mappings...and now you are talking about multitasking?* Is there a limit to your going down? Is there a limit where you save your face and actually accept that you knew nothing about your words? Yeah right...I need to take system internals and coding lessons from a liar and a chameleon's big brother


 
and ur the same guy who was tryin to teach me the diff between Virtual Memory and PageFile and didnt make a sound bout its diff after i posted it.and now u wanna teach me.OMG  
so multitasking is independent of the Schedulers???if thats wat u wanna say then......


----------



## eddie (May 23, 2007)

assasin said:
			
		

> ok.the page no. of the book by william Stallings is given in bracket,so why dont u just check it out urself.if Wikipedia has sourced it from the book then wat can i do??


You still don't wanna accept do you? You liar...the post you wrote was from that very page!!! Want me to prove more? Go back to your post and you will see that there is a hyperlink alive on "Page Faulting" and it is pointing to wikipedia page...just how it is present in the original article. You forgot to delete that link...and it is showing in your face. You are such a cheap and small person!!!





> and ur the same guy who was tryin to teach me the diff between Virtual Memory and PageFile and didnt make a sound bout its diff after i posted it.and now u wanna teach me.OMG


You are not trying to suggest that Virtual memory and Pagefile are same...are you?





> so multitasking is independent of the Schedulers???if thats wat u wanna say then......


You are joking right? That is what I said? Where? Where did I say that multitasking is independent of schedulers? Really man...some of you Windows guys are so stupid that you people amaze me


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

Guys, back to topic plz.

iMav was right, when it come to mobile phone management out of the box MacOS X beats even Vista out. Though iSync only syncs with Address book.

For phone maangement like File transfer etc, you still need a 3rd party application. I am using bluetooth to connect my Phone to Mac & iSync synced automatically to Address Book.

For more usage I installed Phone Agent which is like myphoneexplorer however again due to multiple Window UI I didn't like it.

File nevigation & copying was easy which is what i mostly do.

It downloaded the whole phonebook to Mac & saved it as a file, which I disabled cos it already synced with address book. Though unlike Windows Contacts, address book only works with Apple Mail & Safari.

Will be posting screenshots soon, don't have photoshop on mac



			
				eddie said:
			
		

> You are not trying to suggest that Virtual memory and Pagefile are same...are you?



Virtual memory & pagefile is indeed same. In Windows we have pagefile.sys while in Linux we have swap partition.


----------



## kalpik (May 23, 2007)

GX, no, virtual memory and pagefile (or swapfile) are two different things.. eddie will explain how in a few minutes.. Im too lazy to type 

Ok.. some explanation here: *forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=10062


----------



## eddie (May 23, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Virtual memory & pagefile is indeed same. In Windows we have pagefile.sys while in Linux we have swap partition.


 Virtual memory and Pagefile are not same but they have been confused readily. Virtual memory is the space that is needed for storing lots of information about a certain process and its execution but it does not necessarily mean that this information needs to be only on Pagefile. Virtual memory can exist on main memory or RAM if the same is available but as RAM starts getting occupied...unnecessary contents from Virtual memory are swapped out to Pagefile. This swapiness of your main memory is decided by your kernel.

If you have enough main memory then you will not need Pagefile...not because you will not be needing Virtual memory but because your virtual memory is now being stored on your main memory.

Ah...I see a good link has already been posted


----------



## gxsaurav (May 23, 2007)

Ok kalpik, i believe u, my knowledge is weak then in this regard 

This just in, my modem is no longer hanging in Mac, cos now I m connecting using a LAN Card 

I called airtel customar care in lucknow & it came out to be my friend  who picked the phone. He said "Airtel doesn't support MacOS X Officially, try to download broadcom chipset driver for Mac or use LAN Card".

Later on he came to my home in evening & said "Saale, Mac ki DVD de "


----------



## iMav (May 24, 2007)

ok here is what books have to say ... vm uses paging as a system to access data from the vm to bring it to the main memory 

however vm here is considered to be hard disks  so confusions are bound to occur coz the jargons are used indifferent contexts


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

Glad the confusion is solved


----------



## shantanu (May 24, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Dude i am 110% sure that i know more about windows than you.. I can bet on that. So learn to act mature. You are on a public forum. Learn to respect others. It will help you in life. Your judgements about other people's knowledge are grossly skewed.
> 
> Can you give me an approximate count of the number of your posts that have actually _helped_ someone instead of just making flames?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, may i know your age?


 
well , my 90% posts were on good side to help others.. see my previous posts in hardware section and some in tutorials too.. well if your knowledge is so great in windows then come join technet or MSDN forum and answer one reply there with correct quote many members are waiting there for correct answers.. dude.. i give respect to everyone.. its a matter of fact that some guys under estimate everyone they say... well i am 21 and my apologies to you if i hurted you really...



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> This guy pops up every now and then to post some poorly worded and punctuated post that flames every other operating system apart from Windows and then disappears. If any one of his 1,685 posts makes any sense, I'll eat my tie (I don't wear any so I am not at risk anyway).


 

well arya keep your history with yourself.. and start something cleaner this time.. and buddy why are you teaching everyone in the thread and forum to learn some language properly.. keep your knowledge with you.. and mind a thing that my languages are better than yours.. you only flame and then dissapear.. not me.. and i saw your posts arya .. *you are the one flaming wars now and then*
see my first post (the very first one) you will see why i joined the forum.. and there after hundreds of usefull posts which you dont have.. so learn something in your life.. and then say me to learn something.. 

i dont know why you act like a fool standing in crowd and praising yourself for some english.. my god.. ever talk to me by phone.. (i dont want to talk to you really) ,you will have to do that english speaking course for understanding proper language which i and many educated people in this forum speak.. (sometimes i think whether you are educated ot not)

and 

a fact just for arya.. the words we type are just to express what we are saying.. it does not (never) show the vocabulary level or speaking level we have.. so next time keep your crap away...


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

^^ Umm.. im sorry, but i really didnt get what you are trying to say 
Why would i answer (?) a reply? And so now i have to join MSDN forum to prove that i have some knowledge about windows (which i can STILL say is better than yours)?

Oh and its good to know that 90% of your posts were made to help people


----------



## shantanu (May 24, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> well , my 90% posts were on good side to help others.. see my previous posts in hardware section and some in tutorials too.. well if your knowledge is so great in windows then come join technet or MSDN forum and answer one reply there with correct quote many members are waiting there for correct answers.. dude.. i give respect to everyone.. its a matter of fact that some guys under estimate everyone they say... well i am 21 and my apologies to you if i hurted you really...


 
is it so hard to understand.. well you said that you know better then me in windows.. so i said then why i am helping people in technet and MSDN forums , you should join and help there.. if you dont know about then visit

visit here  *(i didnt mean you were a looser ) edited..*

this is a technology forum by Microsoft..  (i thought you would be knowing this)

and after that i said that my age is 21 , and my 90% posts in this forum were for good.. see them yourself..


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

^^ That link doesn't open.. Sorry for being such a looser and not knowing what technet and MSDN stand for


----------



## shantanu (May 24, 2007)

post edited : and i didnt mean that you are a looser... 

*forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/default.aspx?SiteID=17


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

*sigh*


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

Here are a few screenshot of iSync & Phone agent for Mac. Connected with bluetooth cos my data cable only gives access to my K750i's memory card.

Phone agent is no where close to Myphoneexplorer but does the job of file transfer

*img464.imageshack.us/img464/240/isyncxz0.jpg

*img383.imageshack.us/img383/7231/filenevigationyr1.jpg

Pros of Mac #1 = Better bluetooth capability out of the box to sync mobile phones, then Vista.

However, once FMA or Myphoneexplorer is installed in Vista, it kicks the arse of any Mac offering.


----------



## samanvya_ad (May 24, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> @samanvya_ad,
> I don't give a damn what you think. You do not know the long history of these flame wars. And if you have actually used a Mac (which I doubt), then you have liked it. And if your opinion is fickle and weird enough to change just because you did not like the attitude of one random Mac user (or maybe even hundred) on an online forum, I don't know how to respond to it.



ha ha ha
why are u getting pissed on me... i read this whole thread... i may not be knowing about the flame wars 
but i know one thing for sure...  even u dont know what mac is....

so its better to shut up....


----------



## infra_red_dude (May 24, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Virtual memory & pagefile is indeed same. In Windows we have pagefile.sys while in Linux we have swap partition.



the confusion arised coz windows lists the pagefile setting under virtual memory.

guys, stop fighting and get back to the topic plz!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

Here is a video for those saying Windows Vista doesn't caches application instantly after system boot

Once it boots, it starts caching everything it can find including frequently used apps like 3ds max & winamp. The quality of the video isn't that gr8 but you can still get the point.

*rapidshare.com/files/33054538/MOV00001.3gp.html


----------



## QwertyManiac (May 24, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Just out of curiosity, may i know your age?


He's probably a 13 year old with a hormonal issue


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

Here is a screenshot of MyPhoneexplorer in Vista. Damn, it looks so ugly..just one Windows & everything unified. Everything integrated in one windows only...damn it is not gray 

*img377.imageshack.us/img377/25/phoneexplorerhw9.jpg

Oh & MyPhoneexplorer is not made by a big corporation but a student from austria
[/sarcasm]


----------



## aryayush (May 24, 2007)

****! That is one ugly application. You use that crap!?

No wonder you like Windows then.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> iMav was right, when it come to mobile phone management out of the box MacOS X beats even Vista out.


LOL! Even Vista? _EVEN_ Vista!! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Though iSync only syncs with Address book.
> 
> For phone maangement like File transfer etc, you still need a 3rd party application.


No, you don't. Everything is supported out of the box. Don't post crap and then expect others to correct you. goobimama already said this same thing a lot earlier.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> For more usage I installed Phone Agent which is like myphoneexplorer however again due to multiple Window UI I didn't like it.


Like I said, you have a pretty bad "Window-ish" habit of installing useless programs even when the functionality is there by default because, coming from a Windows world, you do not expect anything to be there by default.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> File nevigation & copying was easy which is what i mostly do.


And both can be done very easily by default.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Though unlike Windows Contacts, address book only works with Apple Mail & Safari.


Yeah, you're right. This behaviour is unlike Windows Contacts because they do not synchronise with anything else. Address Book is the centralised place for your contacts on a Mac. All third party software and Dashboard widgets that need to use your contacts are integrated with the Address Book.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Will be posting screenshots soon, don't have photoshop on mac


LOL! You need Photoshop for doing something as basic as taking screenshots! 



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> i dont know why you act like a fool standing in crowd and praising yourself for some english.. my god.. ever talk to me by phone.. (i dont want to talk to you really) ,you will have to do that english speaking course for understanding proper language which i and many educated people in this forum speak.. (sometimes i think whether you are educated ot not)


Oh, so your knowledge of the English Language automatically gets super-charged when you are speaking to someone in person! You speak better English than you write? Well, I certainly don't believe that and nor does anybody else because the English you write reads like it has been written by someone in junior school.

What happened to the freshseasons dude? I am still awaiting a four times cheaper PC... (at least have the decency to post and accept the total pwnage!)


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Here is a video for those saying Windows Vista doesn't caches application instantly after system boot
> 
> Once it boots, it starts caching everything it can find including frequently used apps like 3ds max & winamp. The quality of the video isn't that gr8 but you can still get the point.
> 
> *rapidshare.com/files/33054538/MOV00001.3gp.html


Umm sorry.. But i cant see a thing  I was expecting some kind of link from microsoft on this..


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

ignorence at it's best



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> ****! That is one ugly application. You use that crap!?


That so called ugly app provides more features then Phone agent. Try using it with your own W550i.

Oh & I guess You forgot to read the last line.

" Unlike Phone agent, Myphoneexplorer is made by a single student in Austria"



> No, you don't. Everything is supported out of the box. Don't post crap and then expect others to correct you. goobimama already said this same thing a lot earlier.


bawahwahwahwah

I was not able to browse my Phone memory " out of the box ". Just the memory card & iSync if I use my data cable. If I use Phone agent I need to use the slow bluetooth. Cop ying a 4 MB Audio file is hell slow over bluetooth compared to datacable.



> Like I said, you have a pretty bad "Window-ish" habit of installing useless programs even when the functionality is there by default because, coming from a Windows world, you do not expect anything to be there by default.


Again, bawahwahwahwah

Yes, I install 3rd party application cos I like more control over my computer, not something the OS wants me to do.



> Yeah, you're right. This behaviour is unlike Windows Contacts because they do not synchronise with anything else. Address Book is the centralised place for your contacts on a Mac. All third party software and Dashboard widgets that need to use your contacts are integrated with the Address Book.


Lolz...now do u want me to start a Windows Contacts in Vista Vs Address book thread too, pwning Address books in some cases . All Gadgets, Windows Mail contacts, IE 7 forms, Live Messenger contacts are inegrated with Windows Contacts. If you have WLM Desktop installed, then even that is integrated with Windows Contacts. Do some research boy, address book of Mac is nothing special compared to Windows Contacts. They both do the job just fine....stop trying to portray Address book as special or better.

Outlook address book pwnes both though 



> LOL! You need Photoshop for doing something as basic as taking screenshots!


Yup, it's called editing & blurring out things. Shoebox won't do it & I don't have Graphics converter installed now.



> Oh, so your knowledge of the English Language automatically gets super-charged when you are speaking to someone in person! You speak better English than you write? Well, I certainly don't believe that and nor does anybody else because the English you write reads like it has been written by someone in junior school.


Here here arya, just call shantanu once....& get embarrassed 



> What happened to the freshseasons dude? I am still awaiting a four times cheaper PC... (at least have the decency to post and accept the total pwnage!)


He is back to his gaming cafe & call center, unlike you he has a proper business.



			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> Umm sorry.. But i cant see a thing  I was expecting some kind of link from microsoft on this..


Ok I will repost a video. It is written in MSDN & Technet library already that Vista caches all the frequently used date when started. You can check there

(P.S. - Be sure you have patience to Diggggggg)



			
				kalpik said:
			
		

> Umm sorry.. But i cant see a thing  I was expecting some kind of link from microsoft on this..


Ok I will repost a video. It is written in MSDN & Technet library already that Vista caches all the frequently used date when started. You can check there

(P.S. - Be sure you have patience to Diggggggg)


----------



## kalpik (May 24, 2007)

That's the problem.. I dont have the time to dig right now.. In the middle of my exams.. After that job


----------



## aryayush (May 24, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I was not able to browse my Phone memory " out of the box ". Just the memory card & iSync if I use my data cable.


There is a difference between the feature being absent and you not knowing how to use it. You cannot even click on the Bluetooth icon and and click on 'Browse Device...'. Tell me a more simple name that Apple could have given it. It was one of the first things I used and I loved it. I can do everything with my phone over Bluetooth and I do not need any third party software.
You can browse both the phone memory and the memory card when you connect your phone via data cable. My friend, Mayank, has a K750i and I once transferred pictures from his phone memory to my Mac via data cable. And I certainly did not have to use any third party software. Unlike you, when I run into some problems, I try to solve them myself, instead of *****ing on online forums.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Again, bawahwahwahwah


What are you trying to prove! We know you cry often, no need to express it publicly.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yes, I install 3rd party application cos I like more control over my computer, not something the OS wants me to do.


You do it because Windows does not do a lot of things by default and you are used to it. It is unbelievable to you that Mac OS X does most of your everyday tasks by default.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...now do u want me to start a Windows Contacts in Vista Vs Address book thread too, pwning Address books in some cases . All Gadgets, Windows Mail contacts, IE 7 forms, Live Messenger contacts are inegrated with Windows Contacts. If you have WLM Desktop installed, then even that is integrated with Windows Contacts. Do some research boy, address book of Mac is nothing special compared to Windows Contacts. They both do the job just fine....stop trying to portray Address book as special or better.


Address Book integrates with all widgets, Mail contacts, Safari forms (and even forms on other browsers such as OmniWeb and Shiira) and iChat and Adium contacts. And, for a change, it actually does synchronise with phones, which cannot be said for Windows Contacts.

As for what you can do with Address Book that you cannot do with Windows Contacts - you can synchronise with any phone in the world that supports synchronisation and you can even dial calls and send text messages via your phone directly from a Mac. Try doing _that_ with Windows Contacts. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup, it's called editing & blurring out things. Shoebox won't do it & I don't have Graphics converter installed now.


You can do that in iPhoto.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> He is back to his gaming cafe & call center, unlike you he has a proper business.


If you think I have any regret or embarrassment about not being employed at the age of eighteen, when I am just out of school - fat chance!


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> There is a difference between the feature being absent and you not knowing how to use it. You cannot even click on the Bluetooth icon and and click on 'Browse Device...'. Tell me a more simple name that Apple could have given it. It was one of the first things I used and I loved it. I can do everything with my phone over Bluetooth and I do not need any third party software.


Yup, good feature in Mac OS which even I praise. Now jump all over & start singing that Mac has one good feature then Vista 



> You can browse both the phone memory and the memory card when you connect your phone via data cable. My friend, Mayank, has a K750i and I once transferred pictures from his phone memory to my Mac via data cable. And I certainly did not have to use any third party software. Unlike you, when I run into some problems, I try to solve them myself, instead of *****ing on online forums.


I was only able to browse my Memory card with Data cable, not phone memory, Arya come to my home & configure it, i will pay the fees to Mac genius 



> You do it because Windows does not do a lot of things by default and you are used to it.


Name me a single thing other then Mobile Phone management that Windows Vista cannot do on an OEM system.

Address Book integrates with all widgets, Mail contacts, Safari forms (and 





> even forms on other browsers such as OmniWeb and Shiira) and iChat and Adium contacts. And, for a change, it actually does synchronise with phones, which cannot be said for Windows Contacts.


Lolz.....Windows contacts does syncs with Phones, but just Windows Mobile Phone such as O2....do some research before you say something



> As for what you can do with Address Book that you cannot do with Windows Contacts - you can synchronise with any phone in the world that supports synchronisation and you can even dial calls and send text messages via your phone directly from a Mac. Try doing _that_ with Windows Contacts.


MyPhoneExploer, ever used it?? Yup, Windows contacts cannot do that out of the box with any phone other then Windows Mobile.



> You can do that in iPhoto.


Ya, which is not working here ("Application curropted" error).



> If you think I have any regret or embarrassment about not being employed at the age of eighteen, when I am just out of school - fat chance!


Well, since you do not know what real work is...stop saing crap about those who do know that.

:Yawn...Macs make me sleepy

This just in, MacOS X isn't showing any Multisession DVD i burned in Windows using disk juggler/nero 7. It is only showing the first track


----------



## iMav (May 24, 2007)

maybe try changing the volumes like in 98 .... if its thr then this is naother flaw where windows is far ahead of mac


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

Change Volumes? Whats that ? really I don't know about it. I just put the DVD inside the drive & Windows shows the most recent track in which every episode is written on the DVD.

If I follow arya's theory of "What is not there by default then it is not a feature", then *MacOS X does not shows Multisession DVDs, flaw #9.*

Arya even refused to help me regarding this, so again...his smugness is public. I wonder if Mac genius even knows how to fix this.


----------



## iMav (May 24, 2007)

well i dont know about dvds but in cds if u make a multisession disk at times the second session is not shown and then u have to manually change the volume of the drive by right clicking the properties of the drive in my comp (this only works in 98 and the best way to hide stuff on a cd which u dont want others to c) .... ab mac mein how to do i have no clue .... arya andy or goobi .... maybe thr is no way and fearing another glaring error which wud be lam blasted by us he has decided to say i cant help citing sourabh has warned him


----------



## freshseasons (May 24, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> He is back to his gaming cafe & call center, unlike you he has a proper business.


   Hey Saurav, It means it you! You do remember i had a gaming Cafe.I presently i have a Call centre and Mt Business.I saw your joining date as jan 2007.But i Distinctly remember seeing you here with the same alias 3 years back.Your mobile Posts were the best.


			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> If you think I have any regret or embarrassment about not being employed at the age of eighteen, when I am just out of school - fat chance!


   Oh I should have known you were a kid. NO wonder your Pa gave you Mac and suddenly you dont know what to do with it ,its the end of fantasy for you so you start flaming each and every person in forums you registered who dont quite see you eye to eye with your new toy.
    Check this out again...not from India's site. But Standard US one which inadvertently you prefer.
  A Decent Mac Mini for 800$(There is a explicit note of Extra sales TAX and other besides it)   .That is Roughly 47,722 Rs.(Or Vist Apple Store near and price is same for 1.8 model)
    Configuration.
1)Mac Mini
# 1.66GHz or 1.83 Intel Core Duo processor (It will be really difficult finding so low spec hardware in market.)
# 2MB on-chip L2 cache
   Now the above Specifications doesnt come with Monitor Or LCD , Keyboard or Speakers or mouse.
# 667MHz frontside bus
   At about 22,990  here 
   *cgi.ebay.in/Intel-CORE-2-DUO-1-8GH...ryZ14294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem  

i will give you a COMPLETE PC with SAMSUNG 17" Monitor,Multimedia Speakers,Intel Pentium 4 - CORE 2 DUO 1.8 GHz Processor,Intel Motherboard with onboard Graphics and sound,512 MB DDR2 RAM 533MHZ,80GB Hardisk Drive, PS/2 OPTICAL Mouse + Mouse Pad,DVD Combo,ATX Casing WITH 400 WATT SMPS 24 PIN,SAMSUNG / IBALL PS/2 Keyboard,PS/2 OPTICAL Mouse + Mouse Pad.
    Remove all the goodies like Samsung 17" monitor, multimedia speakers ,Samsung Keyboard with optical mouse and price for the CPU Box Will be roughly around 12,000 Rs like Mac Mini.
  1/4 of an Mac Mini.
  Ya you get to add Graphic card to the above thing and decent sound card too should you need it later.


----------



## iMav (May 24, 2007)

i guess no i am sure by now every member on this forum knows how good the mac os x is .... and i don think any1 will now buy the argument that its the best ... major reason - it has no cut option


----------



## gxsaurav (May 24, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i guess no i am sure by now every member on this forum knows how good the mac os x is .... and i don think any1 will now buy the argument that its the best ... major reason - it has no cut option



Lolz....& arya has as his sig "Name one feature in Vista better then tiger". I guess he intentionally didn't see the post of mine in technology section


----------



## iMav (May 24, 2007)

he intentionally didnt reply coz he had no reply


----------



## ferrarif50 (May 24, 2007)

Windows Vista, don't have a PC without it!


By the way, read this and then reply!
*crunchgear.com/2007/01/30/a-copy-of-windows-vista-ultimate-and-his-boy


----------



## shantanu (May 25, 2007)

@aryayush : 

you know what , you talk like a kid who does not have his candy and says others that eating a candy can spoil your teeth..

buddy! better have some life and as you reply it seems that you dont have any knowledge or common sense, you just come and spoil others time by your baseless comments on Apple Technology. 

@Venom oh Qwerty :

it seems by your post that you 10 years old, BTW i told you that i am 21 .
STOP your BS..


----------



## gxsaurav (May 25, 2007)

Damn, i missed the thread dueing the downtime.

After lots of searching....I finally found a good combination & replacement for ACDSee on MacOS. Adobe Lightroom + Shoebox+ Noise Ninza stand alone.

*img490.imageshack.us/img490/2030/picture7xb6.th.jpg

Lots of work these days, so doing work on "Work OS "

The multisession DVD problem is still not solved & I don't even have a proper DVD burning app for Mac so far. Toast titanium 8.01 doesn't starts.

* The inbuilt burning utility of Mac makes HFS DVDs, which are not compatible anywhere & doesn't follows the standerd of IS0 9660 Optical disk file system*


----------



## iMav (May 25, 2007)

hey gx have u noticed anythinbg fishy with ur time in vista and os x ?


----------



## gxsaurav (May 25, 2007)

Yup, Time is not in sync. Thats why I corrected Time in Windows Vista but not in MacOS X as that will again change the time in Vista (which I don't want to).

I got my phone on desk which I use as clock....damn I use 99% features of my phone (cocky here)


----------



## aryayush (May 25, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> damn I use 99% features of my phone


WOW! You use the clock!

Such a cool dude, man. This guy even uses the clock. WOWOW! Man, wish I knew how to use the clock on my phone. 

What else do you use that we ignorant mortals don't? The contact list? The number pad? Maybe the screen?


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## gxsaurav (May 26, 2007)

Use it as a camera, as a music device, as an internet communicater for chating on Yahoo or WLM or Google Talk, orkuting, watch Videos on it, trailers (downloaded), PIM, Notes....task scheduling, Yahoo Mail notification...hmm...damn, the forum is small to write it all.

Hee Mac genius, solve my DVD problem plz. U R the only one I can ask here, also I installed Toast titanium 8.01 from Macupdate, but it doesn't even starts. The dock icons bounces & then closes.

Or is it true that MacOS X has no support for multisession DVDs?


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## aryayush (May 26, 2007)

You know, if I were like you, I would have posted this sentence in my signature:

"Hee Mac genius, solve my DVD problem plz. U R the only one I can ask here"

I would still have been better than you though, because at least this would be true. Thankfully for you, I'm not that low.

So quit the immaturity and remove that sentence from your signature.


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## gxsaurav (May 26, 2007)

> You know, if I were like you, I would have posted this sentence in my signature:
> 
> "Hee Mac genius, solve my DVD problem plz. U R the only one I can ask here"
> 
> ...


:Yawn....freedom of speech anyone.

If the mods tell me to remove it, I will. Aren't you misquoting many things yourself in your sig.

Not working on Mac these days, just opened to copy files.

Well....although there isn't any GUI WinRAR for Mac,  there is BetterZip. Wish WinRAR was there.

*img526.imageshack.us/img526/3073/betterzipax3.jpg


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## led_shankar (May 26, 2007)

crack, patch? :O


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## iMav (May 26, 2007)

@gx: well is mac drive working on ur system its not on mine


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## gxsaurav (May 26, 2007)

iMav

I opened Mac just to copy files to courier u, Mac drive 7 is working fine here.

led_shankar

woops 

sometimes when i open Mac in the morning, I wonder "Why did I open MacOS ?"

Then I boot back into Windows. There is nothing to do in Macs


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## aryayush (May 26, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Not working on Mac these days


Which isn't a surprise at all because you do not own one.


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## gxsaurav (May 27, 2007)

Yup, who needs a Mac (hardware) when I can run the same OS on my PC. 

Apple says *"Buy a Mac, cos you can run Microsoft Windows on it." *I say, save some money & buy a PC, even a 4 years old PC runs MacOS X 

MS is just enjoying the free publicity.

This just in...  The latest version of JAVA is 1.6 for Windows, but on Mac it is provided by Apple & still stuck at 1.5_06 which is very slow compared to 1.6.

Apple won't even use the one provided by Sun, they need to make there own. So much for JAVA interopratibility.


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## iMav (May 27, 2007)

mac os is not compatible with a normal pc mic also .... what crap .... buy urself those costly ones from apple ... seriously man whats good about this os .... seriously im like how can people actually call it the best


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## gxsaurav (May 27, 2007)

Some other flaws I found

1) This can be attributed to the pathetic keyboard based nevigation in Mac OS. In Windows or Linux, by just pressing the Tab button, I can cycle between the controls & boxes or check boxes in an application. You know, more like that tab button acts as "Next form" button in those OS.

In Mac OS it is nothing like that, seriously this is a very simple thing. Who uses a mouse always anyway?

2) Page zoom in Firefox & Safari both is bad. It just zooms or increses the text size, i seriously miss the Page zoom of IE 7 which is best.

iMav

even andy had to buy a USB Mic, cos his Man mini lacks a Min in port.

Just downloaded Intel optimized build of firefox for Mac. A bit faster with native control widgets.

Download from here

After mounting it, drag the application "BonEcho" to some folder, not application folder. Now right click on it & select "Show application content" Go to resources folder.

Open the same resources folder from the original firefox.app, & copy all files to BonEcho's resources folder. Now you have optimised firefox for Mac with native widget control & look, with your old Firefox branding as it is.


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## iMav (May 27, 2007)

thanx a lot will try it wen i boot into mac ... man xp is better to work than os x


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## gxsaurav (May 28, 2007)

Here is a screenshot.

*img80.imageshack.us/img80/6870/ffmacdf3.th.jpg

One thing better about Windows. All u need to do is to download an CPU optimised built of firefox & change a skin, thats it. Now it is windows native all over.

Safari though faster to start, is just kaam chalu for quicktime.com

Wow, 11 bugs in 2 weeks only. That too very silly ones. I wasn't even able to find such silly bugs in Vista itself within 2 weeks of using RTM

Here is something to those who say dock is better then task bar of Windows. *MacOS X Dock doesn't groups similar windows.

*img514.imageshack.us/img514/9816/nogroupingix0.th.jpg

*As you can see, I got 3 safari windows & 4 finder windows open. Still....they are separate entities & not grouped, making the dock icons small as I increase the Windows. These are when minimized. Now I hope Macboys don't say "This is the Mac way, where you don't minimize windows but you keep them on the screen adding to the clutter" 

The reason Mac requires Expose to switch cos there are so many Windows open at a time, which if minimized do not group. While in Windows, we do not require this, cos taskbar groups similar Windows & we can switch easily using alt+tab

One more annoyance I found is that, yesterday I was chatting to a friend on Yahoo messenger. The IM Window was at the top, then another web page below it. Another friend IMed me, & the Yahoo messenger Icon in the taskbar flashed but that new IM Window didn't came in front. I had to to use winkey+` to switch to that Window cos Dock doesn't shows me how many Windows of one single app I have open or directly jump to that window. Expose could have also showed me that....but I don't use expose. Dock does shows me open Windows for Yahoo Messenger (Example) if I right click on the Yahoo Icon.

In Windows, another Window opens & it is showed in the taskbar as a separate entity. 2 Windows of Yahoo messenger both shown individually in the taskbar & if I get an IM, that particular window in task bar flashes. 
If it does then let me know Mac Genius.

To be very frank, Finder sux

*I was about to write a whole comparison between Finder & Windows Explorer but was not able to due to studies, now I guess I will taking a total of 5 6 days.* Finder just sux, compared to Windows Explorer, it is slow, no address bar, no direct jumping to any folder anywhere, no icon spacing. I wonder how can macboys call MacOS X  a good OS when it doesn't even provides a proper file manager & navigator.

Right now I switched to Path Finder, a finder replacement which does gives me some power back like that of Windows Explorer. Seriously Apple, just buy this company & integrate Path Finder in Mac instead of Finder, lots of annoyances will be gone.

Here is how it looks like, this is what a file manager is. Total control over how u like to work. Use it the way you want it, not the other way around. Since Path finder itself is an application it is a bit slow compared to finder cos it runs on top of finder.

It also has inbuilt support to view MS Word .doc files. Saved me from downloading NeoOffice

*img129.imageshack.us/img129/6991/pathfindercf9.th.jpg

That makes 12 serious issues with MacOS X so far within 2 weeks, if I find two more I can start my own "Month of flaws" for MacOS X


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## iMav (May 28, 2007)

we deserve a mvp from apple if they fix these stupid bugs ....


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## gxsaurav (May 28, 2007)

Why else do u think Mac genius is here .

That reminds me, is he feeling pwned by 12 serious flaws in 14 days? Where has he vanished.


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## iMav (May 28, 2007)

he has realized that all his attempts to cover up apple's flaws and hide them are futile and hence decided to do what all ppl once pwned do never return


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## gxsaurav (May 28, 2007)

Lolz.....^ judging by his other threads, seems like he is indeed a marketing agent working for Apple.

Anyway, anandk asked me to do a review of Windows Vista components. WMP 11 is already done, right now doing Windows Photo Gallery, then Windows Explorer which will also be Explorer vs Finder.


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## iMav (May 28, 2007)

gx no need ... its way ahead .... save ur time as shantanu has his sig ... mac is a waste of time ... anand .... i think my sig sums up everything


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## freshseasons (May 28, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yup, who needs a Mac (hardware) when I can run the same OS on my PC.
> .


   You are Wrong my friend for the first time. You do own Mac Hardware. Duo Core , Intel MB, Nvidia (Or Intel 950 GMA ).What is Different about this present Mac. Gone are the days of G3 or G4 when really mac was Different.Now Its just the same Hardware inside Albeit Shining Outer Surface.
   That you didint Pay 1 Lacs for the Outer Surface is your proof of Intelligence and awareness.

   And gx_saurav at this rate the thing that you are learning about Mac ..i know now whom to refer to the Real Mac Genius.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 28, 2007)

> gx no need ... its way ahead .... save ur time as shantanu has his sig ... mac is a waste of time ... anand .... i think my sig sums up everything



Just posted the Review of Windows Photo Gallery in Review section.



> You are Wrong my friend for the first time. You do own Mac Hardware. Duo Core , Intel MB, Nvidia (Or Intel 950 GMA ).What is Different about this present Mac. Gone are the days of G3 or G4 when really mac was Different.Now Its just the same Hardware inside Albeit Shining Outer Surface.
> That you didint Pay 1 Lacs for the Outer Surface is your proof of Intelligence and awareness.
> 
> And gx_saurav at this rate the thing that you are learning about Mac ..i know now whom to refer to the Real Mac Genius.



No no, I don't own Core 2 duo, I just own an old Pnetium 4 3.06 GHz with Intel motherboard. Wow, Vista as well as MacOS X all runs well on this 4 years, who needs to upgrade. I guess I m not wrong if I say that this is a total value for money computer for me 

Lolz...nah, I m not looking to be a Mac Genius, although the job isn't bad....but then again, that would mean I would need to brainwash people to buy the expensive & wrong thing in India alongwith constant whining that "Microsoft is Evil & Monopolistic".

It doesn't apply to those who can pay more, but thats just a minority


----------



## gxsaurav (May 28, 2007)

Kenshin, google for it.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (May 28, 2007)

t'ch ,  if u ask more questions bout Installing... , this thread will have the same fate as others


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## freshseasons (May 28, 2007)

Kenshin said:
			
		

> Thnx....got it...


  Let me tell you this is totally illegal.So dont look for file under google such as "vmwares patched file for Macos" or Mac OS X 10.4.5 Myzar.iso.
  Thats illegal to download.
  Also dont look at this useless link *wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Vmware_how_to.
   Its bad to run Mac this way on Pc because you are perfectly spoiling the fun you can have with vista and running dumb os.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 29, 2007)

*Now, MacOS X isn't a bad operating system. Even Mac hardware isn't. It is some of the most beautifully designed Hardware out there.

But the biggest gripe about Mac is the Macboys*, they are no different when it comes to computing then Windows or Linux users. They don't even admit that there OS has serious flaws. At least we windows users admit that Vista too has flaws, yes it does. Even Linux has flaws.

*Mac just looks good & doesn't provides anything good over Windows* other then not many virus out there. Any OEM computer comes with some sort of security suite whether it is Norton or Mcafee or Kaspersky, but at least it comes with one & most of the time that does the job just fine.

Microsoft also releases periodically patches for the Operating systems & a fully patched system is better protected then Mac or Linux is out of the box.

These 2 things take out the biggest weak point in Windows, security.

2nd comes the VFM. Well, those who bought XP Pro 6 years ago are still using it & it still rox. If $300 for an OS which you will run for everyday in the next 6 years is too much to ask (Well, actually it is) then $130 for an OS which you will use for one year only is also too much to ask.

*You cannot upgrade your Mac, & no any normal PCI card or PCIe Graphics card won't work in Mac Pro too. If you call upgrading RAM as upgrading the computer then you should take a lesson in computing. Macs are hardly any VFM.*

Now come to Macbooks, they are highly outdated & over prices. *A Macbook comes with 64 MB GMA 950 when Intel themselves provides support for upto 224 MB shared RAM with GMA 950. Why isn't apple using it to the Max?*

Second thing, heat issues.* It is indeed correct that Macbook Pro is very thin, just 1 inch thick. But that creates more problem than it solves such as overheating issue (which one member founds to be good. Dude, ever heard of overheating killing your hardware. Why else do u think they use high speed fan in CPU )*

Lets come to the bundles application & UI. Mac UI is cluttered, you end up with so many Windows open on screen when u only need one or 2, ever heard about keeping your desk clean Mac users? I used expose in Mac & thanks god MS didn't provided it in Vista. Expose is needed in Mac due to very bad window switching via keyboard. You need to press command+tab to switch between different applications & then command+` to switch between different Windows of same applications.

 I just mentioned how much the dock sux cos it provides no info about "How many IM Windows of Yahoo Messenger do i have open?". *Expose is vital for the UI of Mac, & is not required for Windows where we have a unified window switching method. Alt+tab also known as FlipTab.*

If you don't have iLife, then you don't have a good out of the box experience. Macs don't even come with a good Photo Management application inbuilt. Preview is nothing & iPhoto also isn't any good if you want to manage things your way. Macboys in this forum started using MacOS X Tiger only, tell them to use Panther & Jaguar & then come back to say h

* Ok, I was wrong, There are not 12 flaws, there are 17. Let me know I wrote a flaw twice or if I missed something. Macboys, let me know if any flaw is wrong. I will fix it.*

14 Days, 17 flaws.

1) No Cut option.

2) Non-Standard & weird keyboard navigation. Requires modifier keys for simple thing which have dedicated Keys on Keyboard such as delete or insert or print screen.

3) No option to customize the default looks of the OS in the OS itself other then changing some fonts only & a selection of gray or aqua buttons.

4) Finder doesn’t provide icon spacing, address bar or tabbed navigation such as Path Finder or Windows Explorer breadcrumb bar. You cannot drag a file & go up one level while the file still staying in drag.

5) iTunes has no support to play any music format other then mp3 & mp4. You will need to convert all your songs if they are in other format, if you want them to play in iTunes. This despite of having a solid QuickTime backend.

6) Dock doesn’t group different Windows.

7) There is no way to find how many windows a single application has opened. Such as if Yahoo Messenger is on & there are 3 windows then dock will not show that there are three windows open. You will need to use either expose or command+`.

8) No Out of the box Photo Management application. iPhoto required you to buy iLife, & still lacks in many ways such as lack of tree based navigation. You have to rely on it the way it wants to. There are not many customization options in iPhoto.

9) Windows do not maximize, limiting the zooming capabilities of Safari or Finder. You end up with many Windows on your screen, which you don’t even require.

10) Close apps does not means exiting them. You need to press Command+Q to exit an application.

11) You cannot resize Windows from any side. Just the south east corner.

12) Lack of 3rd party applications. There are applications but they all do almost the same thing. They just look good without providing anything new in most cases.

13) No Unified Uninstaller to uninstall an application & remove all the preference & helper files it has.

14) iMovie is not included with MacOS. If you want to run in on old version of Mac OS X you will need to buy iLife.

15) QuickTime requires you to buy the Pro version to play videos full screen. Mac OS X won’t play full screen videos out of the box & neither VCDs. VLC Player is a must.

16) No option to “Create a new file…..” in Finder by default.

17) It asks you to enter password just for simple installation like installing DivX Codec or install an iContainer in Candybar.
*
Now some really good features worth mentioning in MacOS X*

1) System wide spell check. It is available everywhere even Yahoo Messenger or TextEdit

2) iSync which automatically syncs with your mobile phone & copies the contact to Mac Address book. Then it is available anywhere.

3) Bluetooth for phone - Out of the box, in Windows Vista you can only send or recieve files from the phone to computer or vice versa. However in Mac you can nevigate the phone file system using bluetooth.

*Out of the box, Windows Vista doesn't comes with spell check*. You can install 3rd party application such as SpellMagic though but it is not in Windows by default.

The Windows Mobility centre acts as a central hub for all  your mobile phone needs but the problem is it only works with Windows Mobile phones. So, it is next to useless cos Windows Mobile Phones cost a lot & are generally PDAs. For Sony Ericsson phones you can use Float Mobile Agent or My Phone Exploer, both are free.

If something is not there in Windows, chances are there is an alternative available for free. Unlike safari, which requires you to buy Saft for $!2 just for configuring it.


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## nepcker (May 30, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> MacOS X isn't a bad operating system. Even Mac hardware isn't. It is some of the most beautifully designed Hardware out there.


I should hope Mac hardware isn't a bad operating system. It's hardware. 




> Mac just looks good & doesn't provides anything good over Windows other then not many virus out there. Any OEM computer comes with some sort of security suite whether it is Norton or Mcafee or Kaspersky, but at least it comes with one & most of the time that does the job just fine.


Tell that to the millions upon millions of infected Windows computers out there. 




> Microsoft also releases periodically patches for the Operating systems & a fully patched system is better protected then Mac or Linux is out of the box.


One, this is a load of bunk and if you're going to compare a fully patched system with anything, it should be against another fully patched system. OS X and Linux both have built-in auto-update mechanisms. 




> These 2 things take out the biggest weak point in Windows, security.



No, they don't. 




> 2nd comes the VFM. Well, those who bought XP Pro 6 years ago are still using it & it still rox. If $300 for an OS which you will run for everyday in the next 6 years is too much to ask (Well, actually it is) then $130 for an OS which you will use for one year only is also too much to ask.


VFM? Value For Money? "Define acronyms before using them", my middle school English teacher used to say. Anyhow, I can tell you're trolling because you say "XP rox". Second, check your stats. One, shopping around, you can get OS X for $100 at time of release. Two, you aren't getting any new features with XP during that period. Three, Tiger has been around for over two years and we still have until October before the next version debuts. So much for that myth. 




> You cannot upgrade your Mac, & no any normal PCI card or PCIe Graphics card won't work in Mac Pro too. If you call upgrading RAM as upgrading the computer then you should take a lesson in computing. Macs are hardly any VFM.


It's true that you need to use specific graphics cards for OS X. There's nothing barring graphics card manufacturers from bringing more products to the platform. However, you're completely ignoring the capability to upgrade the hard drives and CPUs in the Mac Pro. I have an ATI Radeon X1900 XT with 512MB GDDR3 SDRAM and I'm satisfied with that. As for not including RAM as an upgrade, it really is a valid upgrade, you're just precluding it because it doesn't help your argument. 




> Now come to Macbooks, they are highly outdated & over prices. A Macbook comes with 64 MB GMA 950 when Intel themselves provides support for upto 224 MB shared RAM with GMA 950. Why isn't apple using it to the Max?


Few people are fans of the GMA 950 in the MacBooks. However, the rest of the parts are quite solid and allowing the card to use more system RAM isn't going to help performance. 64 MB standalone cards far outperform it and more RAM isn't going to change that. As for the MacBook being a value, I think far more tech evangelists laud it as a value than you realize. 




> Second thing, heat issues. It is indeed correct that Macbook Pro is very thin, just 1 inch thick. But that creates more problem than it solves such as overheating issue (which one member founds to be good. Dude, ever heard of overheating killing your hardware. Why else do u think they use high speed fan in CPU )


You don't have an argument based on any actual reality. This hardware is engineered for proper operation. Arguing that thin = too much heat = failure is naive. 




> Lets come to the bundles application & UI. Mac UI is cluttered, you end up with so many Windows open on screen when u only need one or 2, ever heard about keeping your desk clean Mac users?


Like the rest of your arguments, this lacks substance, or in this case, a concrete example. 




> I used expose in Mac & thanks god MS didn't provided it in Vista.


They didn't? 




> Expose is needed in Mac due to very bad window switching via keyboard. You need to press command+tab to switch between different applications & then command+` to switch between different Windows of same applications.


It's a different paradigm. Just because it's not Windows, it doesn't mean it's wrong. Frequently (more often than not), the Mac way is faster. I'll explain it to you like a five year old if need be. 




> I just mentioned how much the dock sux cos it provides no info about "How many IM Windows of Yahoo Messenger do i have open?". Expose is vital for the UI of Mac, & is not required for Windows where we have a unified window switching method. Alt+tab also known as FlipTab.


Why do you care how many IM windows you have open? It doesn't help you chat better.




> If you don't have iLife, then you don't have a good out of the box experience. Macs don't even come with a good Photo Management application inbuilt. Preview is nothing & iPhoto also isn't any good if you want to manage things your way. Macboys in this forum started using MacOS X Tiger only, tell them to use Panther & Jaguar & then come back to say h


All Macs for years and years have included iLife so your argument is tantamount to saying "If you don't have a CPU, your out of box experience won't be good." It's never true, so it's not an argument. I feel dumber for having read that. As for your incomplete sentence, we're all probably better off not knowing what the rest of it was.

So, congratulations, you've successfully trolled me! I've wasted enough time with this and I hope others will relish pointing out the faults in the rest of your troll.


----------



## gxsaurav (May 30, 2007)

Oh. Mr. Nepcker, i thought u vanished from the face of earth. 



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> Tell that to the millions upon millions of infected Windows computers out there.



Those who buy OEM computers are already secured, Yup Windows has flaws & thats why 3rd party antivirus suites etc are bundled with OEM computers. It is not the fault of Consumar that Norton takes performance away from Windows. Those who buy Windows retail, well....everyone knows how to use antivirus I guess. Some don't need that infect.


> One, this is a load of bunk and if you're going to compare a fully patched system with anything, it should be against another fully patched system. OS X and Linux both have built-in auto-update mechanisms.



Wasen't it shown in digit or chip, that a fully patched XP System is more secure then MacOS X & Linux.



> No, they don't.



There is no remedy for "Intel Inside, Idiot Outside". MS tells the users to update there system regularly via automatic updates. Now it is not the fault of MS that a Pirated Windows user screams at MS that Windows isn't secure cos since he is pirating Windows he is unable to use Windows Update.



> VFM? Value For Money? "Define acronyms before using them", my middle school English teacher used to say. Anyhow, I can tell you're trolling because you say "XP rox". Second, check your stats. One, shopping around, you can get OS X for $100 at time of release. Two, you aren't getting any new features with XP during that period. Three, Tiger has been around for over two years and we still have until October before the next version debuts. So much for that myth.



Right said....

XP Pro came in 2001 for $300.

MacOS X 10.0 came in 2001 for $130
MacOS X 10.1 came in 2002 for free
MacOS X 10.2 came for $130
MacOS X 10.3 came for $130
MacOS X 10.4 came for $130

Total $520

New features added, wait...those MS gave as free service packs.


> * It's true that you need to use specific graphics cards for OS X*. There's nothing barring graphics card manufacturers from bringing more products to the platform. However, you're completely ignoring the capability to upgrade the hard drives and CPUs in the Mac Pro. As for not including RAM as an upgrade, it really is a valid upgrade, you're just precluding it because it doesn't help your argument



Actually, you don't need specific gfx card for Mac now. It is a PC inside, running same hardware as a PC, so technically even a retail 8600GT will work. However, it can't because

1) Apple restricts the use of any graphics card other then the one they want to bundle. They restrict it in the EFI & OS itself. Example, Core Video is suppported in FX 5200 but not on FX 5900XT

2) Apple makes the driver themeselves, not the graphics card manufacturers. And these drivers are only for OpoenGL (DirectX isn't for Mac)



> Few people are fans of the GMA 950 in the MacBooks. However, the rest of the parts are quite solid and allowing the card to use more system RAM isn't going to help performance. 64 MB standalone cards far outperform it and more RAM isn't going to change that.



Nepcker, plz just like arya, do not talk about Graphics now. You are the first user ever I have seen who says a 128 MB graphics card will not give more performance compared to a 64 MB graphics card. For gods sake, it's onboard graphics, the more the RAM the better the frame buffer is 



> You don't have an argument based on any actual reality. This hardware is engineered for proper operation. Arguing that thin = too much heat = failure is naive.



Thin = Less space for vantilation = Heat = Porblem.

How thin can u go ?



> Like the rest of your arguments, this lacks substance, or in this case, a concrete example.



Well, you like cluttered window enviroment, we don't. We minimize what we don't need. If we are listening to music, we minimize it to system tray & continue doing our work, does that means not multitasking.



> They didn't?



I hope you know Flip3D isn't Expose.



> It's a different paradigm. Just because it's not Windows, it doesn't mean it's wrong. Frequently (more often than not), the Mac way is faster. I'll explain it to you like a five year old if need be.



Do so, it will help me & other forum members too. How come a unified way to switching windows (alt+tab) is bad compared to a 2 key way of Mac (command+tab & command+`)


> Why do you care how many IM windows you have open? It doesn't help you chat better.



Obviously it does, in Yahoo messenger for Windows, that particular Window flashes in taskbar (Example) same goes with WLM. In Mac, the dock icon jumps but there is no way to just look at it & say which user messeged me, either use Comman+` or expose.



> All Macs for years and years have included iLife so your argument is tantamount to saying "If you don't have a CPU, your out of box experience won't be good." It's never true, so it's not an argument. I feel dumber for having read that. As for your incomplete sentence, we're all probably better off not knowing what the rest of it was.



Umm...isn't it required to buy $70 iLife if someone is using Panther? As far as I know, at the time of Panther, Macs did not used to come with iLife preinstalled.



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> So, congratulations, you've successfully trolled me! I've wasted enough time with this and I hope others will relish pointing out the faults in the rest of your troll.



Trolled u, you were the one with arya who started this thread, what? u feel sad that I pointed out flaws in your so called unflawd OS?


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## aryayush (May 30, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Why do you care how many IM windows you have open? It doesn't help you chat better.


You can always press F10 in any application to know how many Windows it has open and what is going on in those windows.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> XP Pro came in 2001 for $300.
> 
> MacOS X 10.0 came in 2001 for $130
> MacOS X 10.1 came in 2002 for free
> ...


Oh, and I guess Vista comes for free. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> As far as I know, at the time of Panther, Macs did not used to come with iLife preinstalled.


Unfortunately, you don't know a whole lot more than my dog does - and I don't even have a dog.


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## gxsaurav (May 30, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> You can always press F10 in any application to know how many Windows it has open and what is going on in those windows.
> 
> Oh, and I guess Vista comes for free.


Thanx, for the first time ever u r helping . Good boy, now you will sure get a job in Apple store. By the way, whats better? Looking at the dock to see how many WIndows are open or pressing F10 each time? Dock icons have 4 corners which can be put to good use.

Yup, Vista's cost is included in OEM computers, Vista Home premium = Rs 10.5K ($230) in Lucknow, which is all u require for 5 years to come.

Personal comments reported


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## iMav (May 31, 2007)

hey arya ... if my memory is correct there was a mac boy who was so insecure and jumping around every thread trying to tell other members that 3 guys using mac thought they would find 'flaws' when all they could find was 2 flaws ... and guess what gx has just listed the tipof the ice berg if we really started disecting the insides of the mac os then tiger would rather be in an indian jungle


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## gxsaurav (May 31, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> hey arya ... if my memory is correct there was a mac boy who was so insecure and jumping around every thread trying to tell other members that 3 guys using mac thought they would find 'flaws' when all they could find was 2 flaws ... and guess what gx has just listed the tipof the ice berg if we really started disecting the insides of the mac os then tiger would rather be in an indian jungle



Lolz...Indian jungle is where Tiger belongs to, really...

(f**k the pochers)

I am not working on MacOS X much these days, there is nothing to work on. I booted into it today & thought "Why did I boot into Mac"? Then I went back to Windows & started working on things like outlook etc. Really, the Mac novelty is gone. It is just an OS, wonder why Macboys treat it like there love & precious.


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## Goten (May 31, 2007)

Arya really ur a goner.

Addicted to net n nuthing else to do.

May u rest in peace.

Peace~~~!


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## iMav (May 31, 2007)

> the Mac novelty is gone


 same here there is nothing thts amazing in it 





> It is just an OS, wonder why Macboys treat it like there love & precious


 remmbr we talked about making themselves happy of the fact they are using something whilst deprived of the better things


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## gxsaurav (May 31, 2007)

^^^^ lolz...they must be feeling special


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## krrrish (Jun 1, 2007)

chill yaar .. use whichever OS u want to .. bt dont fight like this . 

my heads paining jst reading all ur posts .. !


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## gxsaurav (Jun 1, 2007)

It is not us Other OS users who start flaming threads, it is Macboys. Just look at who started this thread & with what feeling he started it.

We just defended Windows & showed everyone where does MacOS X prevails & where it lacks.

So far, other then not having to install an Anti-Virus, I see no reason to switch to MacOS X.

Oh there is always the requirment for show off


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## nepcker (Jun 1, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Those who buy OEM computers are already secured,


No. They're not. That's the point. The overwhelming majority of those infected PCs are OEM. Stop trying to spin this because what you're saying just doesn't gel with reality. 




> Wasen't it shown in digit or chip, that a fully patched XP System is more secure then MacOS X & Linux.


Point me to a reliable source, not the biased magazines.

And is it fair to compare a "fully patched" Windows to a Mac OS X "out of the box"? You either compare both when fully patched, or both when out of the box, not compare them in an unfair way.




> There is no remedy for "Intel Inside, Idiot Outside". MS tells the users to update there system regularly via automatic updates. Now it is not the fault of MS that a Pirated Windows user screams at MS that Windows isn't secure cos since he is pirating Windows he is unable to use Windows Update.


That doesn't help if you get compromised before you can finish running Windows update or you're attacked by a zero day exploit. 




> New features added, wait...those MS gave as free service packs.


What great new features were added that are even on par with the features released in successive versions of OS X? 




> 2) Apple makes the driver themeselves, not the graphics card manufacturers. And these drivers are only for OpoenGL (DirectX isn't for Mac)


Sorry. Wrong. Nvidia and ATI write the drivers for the cards. 




> Nepcker, plz just like arya, do not talk about Graphics now. You are the first user ever I have seen who says a 128 MB graphics card will not give more performance compared to a 64 MB graphics card. For gods sake, it's onboard graphics, the more the RAM the better the frame buffer is


Okay, take the GeForce 6200 for example. I believe it's available in 128 and 256 MB versions. The 256 MB version is no better than the 128MB version, as the card is just not powerful enough to utilize the whole memory. The GMA 950 is a more low-end card. So I think that it won't be able to utilize more than 64 MB or memory.

If I'm wrong, please give a detailed explanation of why more memory storage would improve speed. 




> Thin = Less space for vantilation = Heat = Porblem.
> 
> How thin can u go ?


I can't believe how simplistic your logic is. Given proper cooling technique (fans, heatsinks, vents, etc), it doesn't matter how thin you go. Again, thin doesn't imply heat problem. 





> Well, you like cluttered window enviroment, we don't. We minimize what we don't need. If we are listening to music, we minimize it to system tray & continue doing our work, does that means not multitasking.


You can minimize to the dock. Shocking, I know, but true. I'm not sitting at my Mac at the moment, but as I recall, you can even close the window and have it keep working (one of the advantages of not having programs tied to window instances). 




> I hope you know Flip3D isn't Expose.


If you can't see that Flip3D is Microsoft's version of Expose, I can't help you. You're clearly burying your head in the sand. 




> Do so, it will help me & other forum members too. How come a unified way to switching windows (alt+tab) is bad compared to a 2 key way of Mac (command+tab & command+`)


Let's say you have 5 word documents, 6 IM windows, and 12 browser windows open. In Windows, in order to get to the 3rd IM window, you might have to tab through all those windows (reading the text for each one because the alt+tab window uses generic icons for each window) in order to get to it. On a Mac, command-tab to the relevant app, then command-tilde to the relevant window. You avoid a large number of keystrokes and get to your destination faster. Concrete. 





> Obviously it does, in Yahoo messenger for Windows, that particular Window flashes in taskbar (Example) same goes with WLM. In Mac, the dock icon jumps but there is no way to just look at it & say which user messeged me, either use Comman+` or expose.


That has nothing to do with knowing how many of a type of window is open. This is a failing in the programming of many IM apps. Adium will actually put names of the people that IM'd you into the dock icon (and the names don't get hidden in a menu when you have a lot of stuff running). 




> Umm...isn't it required to buy $70 iLife if someone is using Panther? As far as I know, at the time of Panther, Macs did not used to come with iLife preinstalled.


*WRONG WRONG WRONG.* iLife is bunded with the machine. They've shipped with iLife for as long as it has existed. 



> Trolled u, you were the one with arya who started this thread, what?


 No, I have *absolutely nothing* to do with the starting of the thread. I hadn't seen the OS X review thread, and hadn't this thread itself for some time.



> u feel sad that I pointed out flaws in your so called unflawd OS?


Nice troll. No basis in reality, but nice troll.


----------



## kalpik (Jun 1, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Wasen't it shown in digit or chip, that a fully patched XP System is more secure then MacOS X & Linux.


Pardon me, but whoever said THAT is a fool indeed.


----------



## nepcker (Jun 1, 2007)

I hadn't gone through all the "flaws" of OS X mentioned here. Thank you, gx_saurav, for re-posting the flaws again.

So here goes......


			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) No Cut option.


 Wrong! You don't even have to cut and paste. You simply hold down the Command key while dragging your file to wherever else you want to copy it and it physically removes the file from where it is and puts it where you drop it.



> 2) Non-Standard & weird keyboard navigation. Requires modifier keys for simple thing which have dedicated Keys on Keyboard such as delete or insert or print screen.


 Two companies are offering two differnt operating systems. Which one would you call the "standard" one?

Besides, most of keyboard shortcuts are the same as on Windows. Some are easier, such as entering international characters. The Mac special character entry is much easier than remembering the Alt codes on Windows.



> 3) No option to customize the default looks of the OS in the OS itself other then changing some fonts only & a selection of gray or aqua buttons.


 Windows has opened up its ability to theme the look, and it has proved to be quite beneficial. Those that wish to do use on OS X can use Unsanity’s Shape Shifter. (Fine. This is Flaw #1.)



> 4) Finder doesn’t provide icon spacing, address bar or tabbed navigation such as Path Finder or Windows Explorer breadcrumb bar. You cannot drag a file & go up one level while the file still staying in drag.


 You can, it includes spring loaded folders.

The finder *does* provide icon spacing, you're just ignorant.

It doesn't have an address bar because if you Command/Apple click on the name of the file/folder in the window title bar (or click on the Path button in the window toolbar) you get the same thing without it taking up a ton of space.

Breadcrumb bar??? Didn't we just cover this in my previous paragraph? Are you so ignorant and anal that you have to be reminded that the window you're looking at resides on your computer?

And yes, *you can* drag a file and go up one level while the file is being dragged. Try column view.



> 5) iTunes has no support to play any music format other then mp3 & mp4. You will need to convert all your songs if they are in other format, if you want them to play in iTunes. This despite of having a solid QuickTime backend.


 It can play CDs without converting them to MP3 or MP4. If you look at the actual specifications, iTunes plays a wide variety of audio formats. Definitely not just two.

WMP, too, doesn't play AAC files out-of-the-box. Besides, do you *have* to use iTunes? 

You can call this a fault in iTunes, not a flaw in Mac OS X itself.



> 6) Dock doesn’t group different Windows.


 I particularly hate this feature in Windows and I’m happy to see that its not included in OSX. I want to see what I have open. Besides, if you right-click on a dock icon, all the applications' windows are listed.



> 7) There is no way to find how many windows a single application has opened. Such as if Yahoo Messenger is on & there are 3 windows then dock will not show that there are three windows open. You will need to use either expose or command+`.


 Again, If you right-click on a dock icon, all the applications' windows are listed.



> 8) No Out of the box Photo Management application. iPhoto required you to buy iLife, & still lacks in many ways such as lack of tree based navigation. You have to rely on it the way it wants to. There are not many customization options in iPhoto.


 Umm, iPhoto is included (as with iLife) with every Mac. Now, is it Mac OS X's "flaw" that someone is running it illegally?



> 9) Windows do not maximize, limiting the zooming capabilities of Safari or Finder. You end up with many Windows on your screen, which you don’t even require.


 Well, window zooming is not the best use of space on today's very large monitors. You're just an idiot if you believe anything you wrote there.



> 10) Close apps does not means exiting them. You need to press Command+Q to exit an application.


 If you really closed an app, it would exit. You are only closing document windows. Personally, I use Command+Q to close apps in Windows as well, so to me Windows and Mac work the same here. You can close apps from the Command-Tab bar, which is a step up from Windows where I do not think you can close apps from the Alt-Tab bar. You can also close apps by right-clicking the Dock icons.



> 11) You cannot resize Windows from any side. Just the south east corner.


 Yes, this is often limiting. I noticed Adobe added any-side resizing to the CS3 palettes... more convenient. (Okay, this is flaw #2)



> 12) Lack of 3rd party applications. There are applications but they all do almost the same thing. They just look good without providing anything new in most cases.


 Ever heard of MacUpdate, MacApper, VersionTracker, iUseThis or any other site that offers thousands upon thousands of apps available for the Mac?

You need to try applications from Transmit, Rogue Amoeba, and other innovative Mac developers. Apps like QuickSilver, GraphicConverter, and Default Folder have *no* Windows equivalent. (Default Folder does have a XP equivalent but I haven't seen a Vista equivalent yet.)



> 13) No Unified Uninstaller to uninstall an application & remove all the preference & helper files it has.


 No need since OSX does not have the easily corruptible weak link called the registry. The uninstaller is used because everything is dumped into the registry. Most programs are uninstalled by dragging to the trash, a number of them (like MS office) include an uninstaller. Bottom line: just because its missing doesn’t mean it’s a detraction, and in this case that is true.

A good link: *krugazor.free.fr/software/desinstaller/DesInstaller.php



> 14) iMovie is not included with MacOS. If you want to run in on old version of Mac OS X you will need to buy iLife.


 Again, iLife is included in all macs, so iMovie is there. New versions of iLife will need to be purchased but you should have the current version.



> 15)  VLC Player is a must.


 I use NicePlayer. or VLC. Both are free. (Okay, flaw #3)



> 16) No option to “Create a new file…..” in Finder by default.


 You create a file with an application, how can you create a new file in windows? Even in Windows, a file is created within an application. If you mean folder then shift-apple-n will create a folder in the finder, or just select New Folder from the menu.



> 17) It asks you to enter password just for simple installation like installing DivX Codec or install an iContainer in Candybar.


 Well, *duh*. This is one of the reasons you don't need a security suite on every Mac!!!

This is up to the developer. If they want to store files in a common area, they must get permission. Most applications stay out of common areas and do not need a password to install.

This is actually a great security feature because some apps need access to the Library folder and you don’t want any old application writing to that folder thus compromising security. It’s a heck of lot better and seemless then Vista’s Allow/Cancel dialog box that nags people to death for the simplest operations. XP has too many security holes and calling one a feature that you wish OS X has is a mistake.

Besides, you can always log in as the root user.



> 18) This can be attributed to the pathetic keyboard based nevigation in Mac OS. In Windows or Linux, by just pressing the Tab button, I can cycle between the controls & boxes or check boxes in an application. You know, more like that tab button acts as "Next form" button in those OS.


 You should turn on Full Keyboard Access sometimes. I use the OS the way you are asking, every day.



> 19) Page zoom in Firefox & Safari both is bad. It just zooms or increses the text size, i seriously miss the Page zoom of IE 7 which is best.


 You're talking about applications, not the OS. But yes, it could use an improvement.

All in all, a number of negative features that you highlight are not, and as you continue to work with OS X you'll find that the features are there, just a little different than Windows. There's also designed changes that are and should be different like your last point of being prompted for a password. Windows incurs too many viruses, adwarse/spywares. OS X has a much more beefier security setup but not implemented to impede a users day to day use of it, unlike Vista.

* So I guess we are down to three flaws:
1) "No option to customize the default looks of the OS in the OS itself other then changing some fonts only & a selection of gray or aqua buttons."
2) "You cannot resize Windows from any side. Just the south east corner."
3) "QuickTime requires you to buy the Pro version to play videos full screen. Mac OS X won’t play full screen videos out of the box & neither VCDs."*

And the third flaw can easily be corrected by installing some other softwares. The second flaw is a genuine one and all we can do is hope that it will get fixed in Leopard.  As for the first flaw, I like OS X's default user interface, so at least I don't have any problems with it.


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## aryayush (Jun 1, 2007)

You can add a fourth flaw to that - the lack of proper cut functionality. Sure, you can do it with the mouse, but what if someone wants to do it with just the keyboard? There's no way you can do it on Mac OS X. So this is something they need to take care of in Leopard.
Another flaw is the lack of a unified uninstaller. Yes, it is easy to just drag and application to the trash but sometimes you want everything related to that application to be banished from the system. You can do that too, but I need something like AppZapper to be there by default in the OS.
Another flaw is that there is no maximise option. Yes, I prefer zoom too but sometimes you really want to go full screen and most applications on Mac OS X don't allow you to do that. What I want is that something like Megazoomer should be there by default. It is free and I have it so I have no problem but it should be there by default.
One more little flaw is that it is impossible to hide all file extensions on Mac OS X.
That's *seven* flaws. WOW! I'm impressed.

I can list ten flaws in Vista right off the bat:
1. No drag and drop. (OK, there is some, but so little, it is almost negligible.)
2. Does not mount disk images by default.
3. No secure delete option.
4. Does not have smart shortcuts.
5. You cannot move applications once they are installed.
6. Bluetooth. (Everyone knows what I am talking about so I won't bother explaining.)
7. Address Book kicks the arse of Windows Contacts.
8. No Exposé. I don't care what anyone says but an OS without Exposé is an unusable operating system.
9. No zoom functionality like in Mac OS X.
10. Show Desktop works like crap.

I could go on and on and on... for days on end. But why bother.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 1, 2007)

Wow, such long posts. :Yawn: bhai neend aa rahi hai dekh kar to.

c ya in 2hrs with the reply


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## nepcker (Jun 1, 2007)

The cut option: I'm not sure but I think you can cut and paste files using keyboard on Mac OS X using its feature called VoiceOver. I haven't tried it but I think cut-and-paste is possible. Full keyboard control in OS X wasn't possible till Panther, but with Tiger, all is changed.


Unified uninstaller: "No need since OSX does not have the easily corruptible weak link called the registry. The uninstaller is used because everything is dumped into the registry. Most programs are uninstalled by dragging to the trash, a number of them (like MS office) include an uninstaller."


Zoom button: Developers have got the choice. They can make the zoom button to maximize if they want. Some applications like iTunes even have an alternative function on the zoom button if you are holding Option while pressing the zoom button.

If you want to make things bigger, you could always use the screen zoom function. Go to _System Prefences | Universal Access_ and make sure its enabled. Then you can press Command-Option and the + and - keys to zoom in and out of the screen. It stays anti-aliased so it looks nice too.


The inability to hide all file extensions on Mac OS X is indeed a flaw.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 1, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> And is it fair to compare a "fully patched" Windows to a Mac OS X "out of the box"? You either compare both when fully patched, or both when out of the box, not compare them in an unfair way.


Wait wait, Windows users never say there box is secure out of the box, Isn't it the Mac users & Mac ads which state that there Mac is secure out of the box? Then shouldn't I follow what Apple says compare their OS at default out of the box state with a fully patched Vista.



> Sorry. Wrong. NVidia and ATI write the drivers for the cards.


Nope, Graphics Card manufactures just supply the OpenGL Layer code to Apple which Apple audits & compiles for Mac OS X as per required 



> Okay, take the GeForce 6200 for example. I believe it's available in 128 and 256 MB versions. The 256 MB version is no better than the 128MB version, as the card is just not powerful enough to utilize the whole memory. The GMA 950 is a more low-end card. So I think that it won't be able to utilize more than 64 MB or memory.


Really I wasn’t wrong when I said you don't know anything about how graphics in an OS works.  

Why are you comparing the gaming performance of these cards, when to run an OS this gaming performance isn't required. Windows XP runs fine on a very bad gaming GPU called Intel Extreme Graphics. GMA 950 has poor gaming performance, but it has more than enough data fill rate & Texel fill rate, along with enough bandwidth for an OS to run. Why do u think GMA X3000 & X3100 are able to run Windows Vista so easily.

In such case to run an OS, a 128 MB Frame buffer is always better, cos it is not frame rates which matter, it is how much data (windows showing on screen is also a texture in Vista & Mac) you can put in the memory. The more memory, the better.


> I can't believe how simplistic your logic is. Given proper cooling technique (fans, heatsinks, vents, etc), it doesn't matter how thin you go. Again, thin doesn't imply heat problem.


Ya, everyone is well aware of the news which comes out these days stating "macbook swallowed" or "Macbook caught fire even after refurbished battery"


> Let's say you have 5 word documents, 6 IM windows, and 12 browser windows open. In Windows, in order to get to the 3rd IM window, you might have to tab through all those windows (reading the text for each one because the alt+tab window uses generic icons for each window) in order to get to it. On a Mac, command-tab to the relevant app, then command-tilde to the relevant window. You avoid a large number of keystrokes and get to your destination faster. Concrete.


This thread is about Vista & MacOS X. In Vista, just press alt+Tab & you get thumbnail preview of all running applications, just look at what u need & mouse click on it. Simple like this.

*i13.tinypic.com/67y8q3b.jpg



> Wrong! You don't even have to cut and paste. You simply hold down the Command key while dragging your file to wherever else you want to copy it and it physically removes the file from where it is and puts it where you drop it.


You don't even need to press command+drag, just drag. But hey, dragging is possible in Windows too & dragging is not equal to cut paste.



> Two companies are offering two different operating systems. Which one would you call the "standard" one?


A Standard (PC Keyboard) is something which is most widely used & manufactured by many companies (Logitech, MS, Quantum, Razor) etc. So keeping this in mind, a PC Keyboard is standard out there.



> The finder does provide icon spacing, you're just ignorant.


Well, If I m ignorant, then plz show me where it is. I will remove it from the flaw list.


> It can play CDs without converting them to MP3 or MP4. If you look at the actual specifications, iTunes plays a wide variety of audio formats. Definitely not just two.


Rofl...now you are so ignorant despite of given the proof of your false statement.



> If you really closed an app, it would exit. You are only closing document windows. Personally, I use Command+Q to close apps in Windows as well, so to me Windows and Mac work the same here. You can close apps from the Command-Tab bar, which is a step up from Windows where I do not think you can close apps from the Alt-Tab bar. You can also close apps by right-clicking the Dock icons.





			
				me said:
			
		

> Close apps does not means exiting them





> Ever heard of MacUpdate, MacApper, VersionTracker, iUseThis or any other site that offers thousands upon thousands of apps available for the Mac?


Yup I did, & none of these provided me a free text editor, or a good enough photo manager or a media player which can play my WMA files.



> You create a file with an application, how can you create a new file in windows? Even in Windows, a file is created within an application. If you mean folder then shift-apple-n will create a folder in the finder, or just select New Folder from the menu.


I guess you have never seen this.

*i17.tinypic.com/67hmc1s.jpg



> I can list ten flaws in Vista right off the bat:
> 1. No drag and drop. (OK, there is some, but so little, it is almost negligible.)
> 2. Does not mount disk images by default.
> 3. No secure delete option.
> ...


1) You have not used Vista properly then. We have cut option. Drag an image directly from webpage to Photoshop, a text block directly from webpage to Word.

2) As far as I know, Mac OS X doesn't mounts ISO files , too, right? Need to check this..

3) Wait, you want to securely delete something (Shift+Delete) or securely delete so that you can recover something if required (the confirmation "Do u want to delete")

4) Why? Just uninstall from old location & install at new location. Common files will still be there in C:\Users\<username> folder

7) Lolz.....you haven't even touched Windows Contacts, have u?  . I will be posting soon why they both are equivalent. Nobody kicks nobody's arse.

 Expose is the Mac way, alt+TAb is the Windows way

9) You just said above Zoom is a bad functionality.

10) What, how? It shows u the desktop, thats it


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## aryayush (Jun 1, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> If you want to make things bigger, you could always use the screen zoom function. Go to _System Prefences | Universal Access_ and make sure its enabled. Then you can press Command-Option and the + and - keys to zoom in and out of the screen. It stays anti-aliased so it looks nice too.


I know this but this is not the same as making an application go full screen. Ever tried Megazoomer?
BTW, you can press Ctrl and use the mouse wheel for zooming in and out too. It is a lot more convenient. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 1) You have not used Vista properly then. We have cut option. Drag an image directly from webpage to Photoshop, a text block directly from webpage to Word.


You are, quite possibly, the biggest liar in the world. You cannot drag images or text out of Internet Explorer _at all_. No chance in Hell.
And drag-and-drop in Mac OS X is everywhere. If the support for drag-and-drop in Mac OS X is 100, then in Windows it is somewhere around 002 or maybe 003.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 2) As far as I know, Mac OS X doesn't mounts ISO files , too, right? Need to check this..


Shut up and don't bother. It does.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 3) Wait, you want to securely delete something (Shift+Delete) or securely delete so that you can recover something if required (the confirmation "Do u want to delete")


I won't bother explaining to you what the term "Secure delete" means. Just repeat it a few times that Mac OS X has it and Windows doesn't. Hopefully you won't forget it in a hurry.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 4) Why? Just uninstall from old location & install at new location. Common files will still be there in C:\Users\<username> folder


WOW! So simple and convenient. A guess it is a lot more convenient than simply moving the application anywhere onto the hard drive, _even while it is running_. Idiot!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 7) Lolz.....you haven't even touched Windows Contacts, have u?  . I will be posting soon why they both are equivalent. Nobody kicks nobody's arse.


Just a little thing - show me how can I dial a number from my Nokia 6300 using Windows Contacts. Or how to send an SMS. This is just one of the features of the Address Book in Mac OS X. There are many features that Windows Contacts has no clue about.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Expose is the Mac way, alt+TAb is the Windows way


Ah, good excuse - unfortunately though, it just isn't good enough.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 9) You just said above Zoom is a bad functionality.


Oh really? I did? WOW! I never knew I could type things without my knowing that I was typing them.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 10) What, how? It shows u the desktop, thats it


You have fifteen windows open and then you click on "Show Desktop". Now click on one of those minimised windows. How do you get back all your windows now? That's right, you click all of them individually. What if some of them are grouped together because they belong to the same application? Yeah, click twice for each window. No, it is not screwed at all.

I just quickly posted the ten features I could immediately think of and you don't have a decent answer to even one of them. I could mention a lot more, like the lack of system wide spell checking or system wide zooming. I mean, I could just go on for days. You came up with seven drawbacks in three weeks. WOW!


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## aryayush (Jun 1, 2007)

Yeah, but you might have something that you absolutely want to get rid of and you know you never _ever_ want to see it again. "Secure Empty Trash" comes in handy at that time. Mac OS X does not always secure delete stuff, only when you ask it to. It is a good option and should have been there in Windows.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 2, 2007)

Well, if you want to permanently delete then yeah, there is no feature for that in Windows.

But you forgot, Windows has a "Recycle Bin" from which you can recycle your stuff or get it back in the original form, while MacOS X has Trash.

Windows is more greener


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## 47shailesh (Jun 2, 2007)

Some Dude here has a very Cool Signature.. "Do not Mess with fan boys.. you'll make ursefl dirty" even if you are right..


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## gxsaurav (Jun 2, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> You are, quite possibly, the biggest liar in the world. *You cannot drag images or text out of Internet Explorer at all. No chance in Hell.*



I wasen't wrong when I said you are an ignorent brat who knows nothing about how to use a computer, sorry PC with Vista. Time for an eye opener again 100000th time. . Everyone out here, read the above statement given by arya in bold & see this video. You can conclude yourself who is a lier in the forum.

Draging an Image from IE 7 to Photoshop

Draging a piece of text from IE 7 to Word 2007

Both videos are DivX encoded. The slow speed of the videos is due to High CPU usage & 5 fps rate while using snagit.



> WOW! So simple and convenient. A guess it is a lot more convenient than simply moving the application anywhere onto the hard drive, _even while it is running_. *Idiot!*



Personal comment from a rude Froum user #100th. Hey do you know how to use MacOS X, that shut down button is in the apple menu. The one with Blue apple logo.



> Just a little thing - show me how can I dial a number from my Nokia 6300 using Windows Contacts. Or how to send an SMS. This is just one of the features of the Address Book in Mac OS X. There are many features that Windows Contacts has no clue about.



Nope, you can do that all with a Windows Mobile device, I did it myself with O2 XDA 2 Atom. It send SMS over bluetooth.



> You have fifteen windows open and then you click on "Show Desktop". Now click on one of those minimised windows. How do you get back all your windows now? That's right, you click all of them individually. What if some of them are grouped together because they belong to the same application? Yeah, click twice for each window. No, it is not screwed at all.



Nope, no use. You don't know how to use Windows Vista so you don't know what flaws it has. Again, you are making flaws on your own with no truth.

Another eye opener , which unfortunately won't buzz your head cos you never research. Take a look at this video. Just click on "Show desktop" button in quick launch or press Winkey+D again.

Show desktop 3gp file


Nothing but the truth that Macboys have no connection to Facts & Reality.

Idiot. (Issued in public interest)


----------



## iMav (Jun 2, 2007)

wow arya is still trying to prove that mac os x is better than vista (well it caant even compare with xp) 

arya save ur self the embarrassment .... mac os x is no where near vista refer my sig for more info


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 3, 2007)

Don't know how many times do we have to prove it. When will Macboys look at proofs with open eyes.

So far arya has lied about these things without doing any proper research

1) PC using iSight

2) Mac using EFI since 2001 D my favorite)

3) Windows Explorer not showing preview of Videos or Images

4) IE 7 cannot drag images & text to other applications.

5) Much more which I do not care to write here.

Hey arya, one question for you which I guess nepcker forgot to look. How do i change the Icon spacing in finder in MacOS X tiger. I can't wait for Leopard 

:Yawn: Happy Sunday. 

What no Macboy reply in whole night.

1) I just checked, *in MacOS X you can mount an ISO file by just double clicking.* Although Windows Vista lacks this feature, but since we are talking about OEM computers here with writing capable drives, they come with Nero or Roxio preinstalled, through which they can easily mount the Disk as a Virtual Drive using Nero Image Drive out of the box . If not you can always do a search on google for either Daemon tools or Windows Virtual CD Powertoy for 60 KB only. I wonder why it is not bundled in Vista Itself, hmm....must be some lawsuit.

Oh & there is still no alternate to Daemon Tools & Ad muncher in Mac, whether 3rd party or Apple's own.

Wow, Microsoft gives so much for free.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 3, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I wasen't wrong when I said you are an ignorent brat who knows nothing about how to use a computer, sorry PC with Vista. Time for an eye opener again 100000th time. . Everyone out here, read the above statement given by arya in bold & see this video. You can conclude yourself who is a lier in the forum.
> 
> Draging an Image from IE 7 to Photoshop
> 
> Draging a piece of text from IE 7 to Word 2007


It is hardly my fault that when you try to drag something out of IE it gives you the stop symbol that indicates the action isn't possible but then still allows you to do it. Then again, Microsoft never was the best when it comes to user interface design.

And anyway, you still cannot drag text or links or images onto the desktop or explorer or in any of the thousands of other applications on Windows. Because this capability you showed is available, Windows' drag-and-drop capabilities now rate about 008/100.

(BTW, you've got a super fast computer out there. I thought I was going to be waiting forever for that image to load in Photoshop. I actually had to jump forward into the video because I got tired of waiting.)



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, you can do that all with a Windows Mobile device, I did it myself with O2 XDA 2 Atom. It send SMS over bluetooth.


Newsflash: I've only ever seen two people with Windows Mobile devices. I want to do it with my Nokia 6300.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, no use. You don't know how to use Windows Vista so you don't know what flaws it has. Again, you are making flaws on your own with no truth.
> 
> Another eye opener , which unfortunately won't buzz your head cos you never research. Take a look at this video. Just click on "Show desktop" button in quick launch or press Winkey+D again.
> 
> ...


I specifically mentioned that it wouldn't re-maximise all the windows if you manually maximised one of them. If you hit "Win + D" twice without doing anything in between, of course it will show the desktop and then undo it. But more often than not, I want to go to the desktop because I want to launch something. And if I do that, I'll have to manually maximise all the windows.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Oh & there is still no alternate to Daemon Tools & Ad muncher in Mac, whether 3rd party or Apple's own.


Why in the name of God's green Earth would someone need Daemon Tools on Mac OS X!! LOL! Are you completely nuts! And what does Ad muncher do?



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Wow, Microsoft gives so much for free.


LOL! LMAO! 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So far arya has lied about these things without doing any proper research
> 
> 1) PC using iSight
> 
> 2) Mac using EFI since 2001 ( my favorite)


Yeah, I was uninformed and made mistakes. Big deal!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 3) Windows Explorer not showing preview of Videos or Images


Yeah, it does not. Even now. I won't install any extension, plug-in or application. Why should I! "What isn't there by default is not a feature." You can only view JPGs, GIFs, PNGs, TIFFs and maybe a few other image formats but you cannot preview Adobe's formats (PSDs, PDFs, AIs, etc.) and you cannot preview videos. You just cannot.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 4) IE 7 cannot drag images & text to other applications.


Two applications. Maybe you can show me three more. That makes five. And that too after showing me a clear sign that it is not supported.
You still cannot drag most things on webpages to most other places. For example, you cannot drag some of this text into the Quick Reply box below when you want to quote me.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 5) Much more which I do not care to write here.


Translation: "Yeah, there were just three or four instances but well, I am gx_saurav so don't expect me to be truthful."
If I were to list the things you have said ignorantly over the past few months, you'd be buried underneath it. But I don't wish to get into that tomfoolery. I wanted to make a point about the superiority of Mac OS X over Vista and I've already done so. You haven't had a decent reply to anything I've said till now. Nor will you ever because unlike you, I generally know what I'm talking about.

Vista, even after blatantly copying everything from Mac OS X, is still crap when compared to Tiger. God help it when Leopard is released!

Oh, this just in, unlike Windows Vista, Mac OS X does not give stupid BSODs on fresh installs. LOL!
Weren't you the one prancing about saying that Microsoft had taken care of that and that the BSOD was gone forever never to be seen again. Well, it seems to have made a craptacular comeback.


----------



## samanvya_ad (Jun 3, 2007)

i have become a fan of arya...

still fighting his heart out...  good going... 
areu on orkut..?? i will become ur fan there....

but still vista is better bro...


----------



## aryayush (Jun 3, 2007)

LOL! I don't even know whether that was a compliment or not. 

BTW, maybe Vista is better for your needs. But it is better in general? No, it is not. I have already given some of the reasons and there are lots more. Vista simply has lesser features and certainly a much worse user interface when compared to Mac OS X, which is, beyond a shadow of doubt, the best operating system ever. Nothing can change that fact.

Anyway, I've said what I'd wanted to all along and unless someone present a convincing argument against me here, I won't bother to post again. (I know I've been unsuccessful so far, but honestly, I'm trying to restrain myself.)


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 3, 2007)

Ignorence at it's best = Arya



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> It is hardly my fault that when you try to drag something out of IE it gives you the stop symbol that indicates the action isn't possible but then still allows you to do it.


Again, you feel pwned & got nothing valid to say. Hey do you feel threatened that we will pwn u completely.* It gives the stop symbol when it reaches the "Window border".  That line, remember. Obviously you cannot drop something on that line.*



> you still cannot drag text or links or images onto the desktop or explorer or in any of the thousands of other applications on Windows.



How do we say, angooor khatte hain . Everyone again, just read what arya mentioned above in bold & see the videos below. Arya, another eye opener for you. Yawn: I m getting tired of showing u the way man, now buy me a Mcchicken burger )

Draging an image from IE 7 to Explorer Desktop

Draging a URL link from IE 7 to explorer Desktop



> (BTW, you've got a super fast computer out there. I thought I was going to be waiting forever for that image to load in Photoshop. I actually had to jump forward into the video because I got tired of waiting.)


Just like always, you are ignorant, feel pwned & do not read or do some research. This is what I quoted.



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Both videos are DivX encoded. *The slow speed of the videos is due to High CPU usage & 5 fps rate while using snagit.*


Just to show u speed, this is a same video made by my K750i.

Speed of draging an image from IE 7 to photoshop.
*
OMG, The earth is gonna explode, it took 3 seconds to open the file in photoshop from temporary internet files of IE 7* . My Computer isn't a  Core 2 Duo anyway, just an old Pentium 4 3.06 GHz single core with hyper threading, OMG....it is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow that 3 seconds are killing my productivity but saving me a lot of money from buying a new Mac.

*What an ignorant brat you are arya. Seriously, you have nothing to say or proof, iMav is right, save yourself some embarrassment. The proof is right in front of you but still you do not see it.*



> Newsflash: I've only ever seen two people with Windows Mobile devices. I want to do it with my Nokia 6300.


let me guess, those two people were professional users making some money on there own with proper jobs instead if sitting on a Mac & posting on forum. Didn't i already mentioned that Contacts do no work with any other phone in last page?


> I specifically mentioned that it wouldn't re-maximise all the windows if you manually maximised one of them.* If you hit "Win + D" twice without doing anything in between, of course it will show the desktop and then undo it.* But more often than not, I want to go to the desktop because I want to launch something. And if I do that, I'll have to manually maximise all the windows.


Ofcourse you had no idea what that is right , ignorence at it's best. Why not post a video of MacOS X doing the same. Ever heard of start button in WIndows from where you can start anything? I mean, in 2007 do u still keep shortcuts on desktop? You really don't know how to use Windows. Nope Windows doesn't provide what you are asking form cos it is not required.



> Why in the name of God's green Earth would someone need Daemon Tools on Mac OS X!! LOL! Are you completely nuts! *And what does Ad muncher do?*


Oh, I forgot. There is only one CD Image format out there called ISO. NRG CUE BIN they don't exist. No wait, they do exist just not on a Mac, cos you use it at default settings. Neither does Disk Emulation like safedisk or SecureROM is required on a Mac, due to its lack of games or 3rd party applications.

About Ad muncher :ROFL:, how hard it is to do some research boy  



> Yeah, it does not. Even now. I won't install any extension, plug-in or application. Why should I! "What isn't there by default is not a feature." You can only view JPGs, GIFs, PNGs, TIFFs and maybe a few other image formats but you cannot preview Adobe's formats (PSDs, PDFs, AIs, etc.) and* you cannot preview videos. You just cannot.*


Adobe sued MS for including PDF support in Office 2007, sorry just like this Microsoft cannot support PSD out of the box in Windows Preview cos not everyone requires it & 2nd, if you have photoshop you can easily add this functionality in Windows. They don't wanna get sued for a silly reason again.

:ROFL LMAO: What the hell was I playing in this screen shot posted in last page then. Another eye opener for you, now you do buy me a McChicken Burger. Everyone again, look at what Arya said above & look at what this video is showing. 

Previewing an AVI Video in Windows Explorer. 3gp file.

(Those who have not seen Pirates 3 should skip the video, I don't wanna spoil the fun)


> Two applications. Maybe you can show me three more. That makes five. And that too after showing me a clear sign that it is not supported.


How the hell am I doing this if it is not supported. When were you when god was distributing common sense. 



> You still cannot drag most things on webpages to most other places. *For example, you cannot drag some of this text into the Quick Reply box below when you want to quote me.*


Yup we can, refer to those video posted above

Drag? Why, ever used copy paste. I know Mac will save it as a new rtf file, but need that when we can simply copy paste the text. Sorry, this is not a good enough reason.



> Translation: "Yeah, there were just three or four instances but well, I am gx_saurav so don't expect me to be truthful."


Translation : Yeah, there are many more but Since I m trying to get a job in Apple Store as Mac genius with no knowledge of how computers & an OS works, do not expect me too look at anything others are saying. If it is not my way, then it cannot happen. I just don't understand how things work & like to bow in front of my Mac every morning & lick it. Arya.

  



> I* wanted to make a point about the superiority of Mac OS X over Vista and I've already done so.* You haven't had a decent reply to anything I've said till now. Nor will you ever because unlike you,* I generally know what I'm talking about.*


Ya, that we can see clearly. We also made our point that why Mac OS X isn't the best OS out there. There is nothing in Mac which makes it better then Windows Vista. About my decent replies, well I m not the one calling other forum members "Idiot". And no, you don't know what you are talking about.

Translation = Arya : I generally know what I am are talking about = My Ignorance & arrogance, I cannot be wrong.



> Vista, even after blatantly copying everything from Mac OS X, is still crap when compared to Tiger. God help it when Leopard is released!


Arya : I am a fanboy & can't listen to anything against Mac or Apple,  now give me the job of Mac Genius cos I m such a loyal Macboy  

Wasen't Leopard supposed to come before Vista or supposed to feature more futures then Vista, so far time machine (System restore, Volume Shadow copy) & Spaces (Virtual Desktop Powertoy) are the only worth while features.



> Oh, this just in, unlike Windows Vista, Mac OS X does not give stupid BSODs on fresh installs. LOL!
> Weren't you the one prancing about saying that Microsoft had taken care of that and that the BSOD was gone forever never to be seen again. Well, it seems to have made a craptacular comeback.


How many hardware does Mac OS X runs on = 20 at max

How many configuration Windows Vista runs at = 2^infinity.

Who makes the drivers for Apple = Apple audits them

Who makes the drivers for Windows = Hardware manufacturers, which do not usually care to pass the Microsoft Audit knows as "WHQL Logo".

Did you read why is he getting the BSD?

Guys, fellow forum members...i would like to ask all of you, who do u think knows about Vista here? Who do u think is saying something without research or knowledge & who do u think is being ignorant.

P.S. - I was joking, don't buy me a burger :d, on Wednesday it will be one month without junk food for me, & I have lost 2 KG weight. GF was saying "You are getting extra thin"

@ Samanvya

Yup, he is a loyal Macboy. We all admit.



> BTW, maybe Vista is better for your needs. But it is better in general? No, it is not. I have already given some of the reasons and there are lots more. Vista simply has lesser features and certainly a much worse user interface when compared to Mac OS X, which is, beyond a shadow of doubt, the best operating system ever. Nothing can change that fact.



And Nokia makes bread while Coka Cola makes engine oil.

Features, UI,? No, Prooving something never buzzes a bll in your head.



> Anyway, I've said what I'd wanted to all along and unless someone present a convincing argument against me here, I won't bother to post again. (I know I've been unsuccessful so far, but honestly, I'm trying to restrain myself.)



:Yawn: Abe bahar ja, sunday hai....enjoy the day.


----------



## eggman (Jun 3, 2007)

Arya is one of rare persons whose determination never falls. It gives me encouragement. Even when he lost the battle, his fighting intensity is same. Kudos to that. 



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> But it is better in general? No, it is not. I have already given some of the reasons and there are lots more.


Who are you to decide which is better in general...lolz
And none of your reason is good enough to convince that Mac is superior to Windows. It has some features which windows lack but with so many flaws and lack of customizations(both in Hardware and software) it can no way be said better than Vista. And gx_saurav already showed how Vista is supirior :


----------



## shantanu (Jun 3, 2007)

aryayush is right ! 

The best OS ever is MAC OS X (its X rated) 

MAc is the Best ! Coz Arya is the one who Got a MAC and now it does not matter how embrassed he is with his MAC ! he cant hear a word for it ! (EGO-T)

Well for Arya : Leave Photoshopping , Learn some basics of computing. 

GX : Well done..


----------



## nepcker (Jun 3, 2007)

gx_saurav, you haven't even removed a single flaw from this post, even though I've found faults in the whole of the post. Change it.

I'm also waiting for the whole reply of my posts.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> If something is not there in Windows, chances are there is an alternative available for free. Unlike safari, which requires you to buy Saft for $!2 just for configuring it.


 That's why I use SafariStand and Safari Enhancer to configure my Safari. They're free!



> Wait wait, Windows users never say there box is secure out of the box, Isn't it the Mac users & Mac ads which state that there Mac is secure out of the box? Then shouldn't I follow what Apple says compare their OS at default out of the box state with a fully patched Vista.


Nope, you just made a strawman. 




> Nope, Graphics Card manufactures just supply the OpenGL Layer code to Apple which Apple audits & compiles for Mac OS X as per required


Exactly. Nvidia and ATI write the drivers. Do you realize you're contradicting yourself? 




> Windows XP runs fine on a very bad gaming GPU called Intel Extreme Graphics. GMA 950 has poor gaming performance, but it has more than enough data fill rate & Texel fill rate, along with enough bandwidth for an OS to run. Why do u think GMA X3000 & X3100 are able to run Windows Vista so easily?


They're better chipsets. 




> In such case to run an OS, a 128 MB Frame buffer is always better, cos it is not frame rates which matter, it is how much data (windows showing on screen is also a texture in Vista & Mac) you can put in the memory. The more memory, the better.


More is not always better. You still haven't explained why using more system RAM as video RAM would necessarily improve performance. If anything, you're assuming the limiting factor is how much data it needs. If that were the case, then standalone video cards with their own 64 MB of RAM wouldn't perform better. They do. 




> Ya, everyone is well aware of the news which comes out these days stating "macbook swallowed" or "Macbook caught fire even after refurbished battery"


MacBook swallowed? What are you going on about? You're talking about battery issues. So again, you're using middle school logic. 




> In Vista, just press alt+Tab & you get thumbnail preview of all running applications, just look at what u need & mouse click on it. Simple like this:


Oh, just like Expose. Except the thumbnails are smaller. And if you're using the keyboard, you need to use just as many keystrokes (more than with the Mac). 




> You don't even need to press command+drag, just drag. But hey, dragging is possible in Windows too & dragging is not equal to cut paste.


Not between volumes. 




> Close apps does not means exiting them


What does this even mean? 




> Yup I did, & none of these provided me a free text editor, or a good enough photo manager or a media player which can play my WMA files.


I'll help you because you're apparently completely inept. TextWrangler is free. Try NeoOffice too. As for "good enough photo manager", try GraphicConverter. The free version is slow and the batch function is disabled, but you can buy it for just $30, I guess.  Finally, thank Microsoft for a closed proprietary format that they refuse to support on other platforms.



			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> GX : Well done..


 He hasn't been able to reply to the whole of my posts (he replied to only some points, but he didn't take back the flaws). I don't think that he is doing well.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 3, 2007)

yup, I m not doing well.  weekend r for timepass & dates. 

I won't say much now as those flaws r genuine.

Public support appriciated 

i never said Macs r bad, i just clerified why they provide nothing usefull except lack of virus compared to Windows XP.


----------



## iMav (Jun 3, 2007)

arya and nep ... u say in general mac os x is better than vista ... how about pointing out a numbered difference of what does mac do better than windows

taskbar - better than the dock (as gx said open 10 windows and ur dock is a train not knowing which file is which (of the same app like word))

expose - windows doesnt need it flip 3d more funky

games - need i say nething

moving files from drive to drivew - a charm in windows a headache in mac

cd formats supported .... windows all mac very few .... it showed a couple of my dvds to be empty when they were filed wit 4-5 avi movies

cant remmber more


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 3, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Nope, you just made a strawman.


Nope, I just mentioned what Mac ads said.



> Exactly. Nvidia and ATI write the drivers. Do you realize you're contradicting yourself?


Did you forget to read? I said, NVIDIA & ATI gives the OpenGL drivers to Apple which audits them for there OS. It is same as NVIDIA & ATI giving drivers to Microsoft for WHQL Logo, & WHQLed drivers hardly ever crash.



> More is not always better. You still haven't explained why using more system RAM as video RAM would necessarily improve performance. If anything, you're assuming the limiting factor is how much data it needs. If that were the case, then standalone video cards with their own 64 MB of RAM wouldn't perform better. They do.


Ask anyone in gaming section why more Graphics RAM is better . what More to say 



> MacBook swallowed? What are you going on about? You're talking about battery issues. So again, you're using middle school logic.


Yup, talking about pathetic quality control



> Oh, just like Expose. Except the thumbnails are smaller. And if you're using the keyboard, you need to use just as many keystrokes (more than with the Mac).


ROFL , no seriously did u just had bhang today. Fliptab is Expose clone, how low can you go man, how low can u go. 

Fliptab is mubh better then expose for Windows. Expose is good, but it is good for Mac OS X & isn't required on Windows UI.



> Not between volumes.


I don't what you wanted to say, but in case you want me to enlighten you, here is an eye opener for u. 

Draging some files from E:\ drive to c:\ drive vis Windows Explorer.

I kept the cursor static so that you can see it in action to see whats happening. Comon nepcker, this is plain stupid. You are denying the existence of simple features which are there since Windows 98. Just like arya denied that Windows Explorer in Vista does not shows the Video previews. I still remember his words *"no chance in hell" *

I tried textwragler, 9 MB for notepad, wow talk about efficiency. No wonder dll is better as it can be compressed in so many ways.


			
				arya said:
			
		

> Two applications. Maybe you can show me three more. That makes five. And that too after showing me a clear sign that it is not supported.
> You still cannot drag most things on webpages to most other places. For example, you cannot drag some of this text into the Quick Reply box below when you want to quote me.


I forgot to reply to this Quote. I asked once that Firefox doesn't support key chain integration & arya replied "It is developers job to support it". Well, same goes with Windows. It is developer's job to implement this feature of drag & drop to anywhere in Windows applications. The Way Windows works, we don't require drag & drop cos we have the Holy "Cut" feature.

One warning to all users : If you are given a choice to see the Movie "Cheeni kum" starring Big B or use Mac OS X, then chose to use a Mac. It is hell useless movie, why do girls like such movies 

(issued in public interest)


----------



## samanvya_ad (Jun 3, 2007)

public interest warning accepted....  thanks for that...

this has been one of the funniest and knowledgeable threads i ever came accross...  

Arya as u said some os is good for some while other for some other....
i am not an expert in neither Vista nor Mac OS X...

but i have used both... just used.... Mac OS X was the best when it came out...
but even on few usages i think Vista is better... might be next OS of Mac is much better than Vista or anything microsoft offers ... but needs of different ppl are different....

still ur determination is great... great going...


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 3, 2007)

Arya's determination to be a macboy is nothing new. It is the case with every macboy out there. Somehow they believe that the World is going in a wrong direction cos people are not using Macs, so they come up in forum or real life & convince us to buy a Mac, even if that means no enhancement in productivity compared to the existing OS we use.

*The only reason I find justified to use OS X over Windows Vista is that you need to run some application which only runs on Mac OS X & not on Vista. Thats it.*

Feature wise, both Mac & Windows Vista can do the same thing. They both are secure if made secure, both are good for productivity.

*However like I have mentioned before, Macboys need to leave there smug attitude & need to stop saying "Windows Copied..." or downplay there lifeline.*

With such determination, I am sure he will get a job in an Apple store as Mac Genius, cos to be a Mac Genius U don't need to be good in computer hardware or software, you just need to be good in convinsing people to pay more to buy a Mac & be a Macboy. Once they become Macboy, the chain continues.


----------



## praka123 (Jun 3, 2007)

*Why I Switched Back by :*Zed A. Shaw

read:

*www.zedshaw.com/rants/apple_sux.html


----------



## mikael_schiffer (Jun 3, 2007)

I use Windows Vista cuz i dont wanna go learn how to use an OS from scratch.Its not that i cannot use MacOS X , its just that i cant get used to that single click interface. And the Macbook Pro i've used is kinda slow, maybe because the hard drive was jam-packed with filthy stuffs 

Right now i am really angry with Windows.I tried burning a dvd with the inbuilt dvd writing software and i lost my precious  DVD-RW which had important files in it. Microsoft should chuck our writing software from its OS next time around


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> *Why I Switched Back by :*Zed A. Shaw
> 
> read:
> 
> *www.zedshaw.com/rants/apple_sux.html


Yes, those early iBooks had some severe known flaws that Apple refused to acknowledge for the longest time. They are an arrogant company. The iPod virus case is already fresh in my memory. When Apple blamed Windows for the iPod virus, I felt ashamed to be a supporter of such a company. It was the worst sentence I'd ever read on their website.

I do sympathise with that person and if I was in his place, I probably would have developed a certain hate for Apple hardware too. But that was a bad phase that is over now. Every company has had its share of troubled times and wrong decisions but it does not mean they are always going to suck. There must be a lot of people who bought notebooks from other companies and were shown the rough end of the stick too.

However, I do know that I have been using a MacBook Pro for the past nine months and apart from a very noisy SuperDrive, I haven't faced any problem yet. And when my SuperDrive was making a little noise, Apple replaced it for me in three days. I've had a great experience with Apple so far so I see no reason to not buy the company's products. It is not necessary that a company that made a crap product in 1999 still hasn't upped its standard in 2007.

But what really struck me about this person's blog entry was that even though he was so completely swindled by Apple and is utterly and fiercely against ever being a customer to them again, he still has nothing but utmost respect for Mac OS X.





> ... the OS X software is great...
> 
> This said a lot for how good OS X was...
> 
> ...


I used to recommend people to try out OS X before making comments on it but I've stopped doing that now because I unfortunately recommended it to the wrong sort of people and have already been scarred by the experience of trying to show something better to someone. But no matter how you try to spin it, there is little doubt that Mac OS X is the best operating system on the planet and anyone _with sense_ (strong emphasis added) will have the same opinion if he/she has used the operating system.

As for this person, well, all I can say is that I am sorry he had such a poor experience with Apple and wish that Apple had treated him with the respect a customer deserves. But I also know that **** happens and when you are a multi-billion dollar company, you tend to slip up sometimes. It makes sense for him not to buy from them anymore, but it does not mean that just because one person (or a few people) had a very bad experience in 1999, everyone who chooses to buy an Apple product will end up being treated the same way. 

The intention of this whole essay was not to defend Apple but to put things into some sort of a perspective so that they are not blown out of proportion. Hope no one takes this in a negative way and starts another long-winded cold war against me. Wouldn't be the first time.

What ultimately matters to me is Mac OS X. It is the best operating system and Windows has a lot of catching up to do.



			
				mikael_schiffer said:
			
		

> Its not that i cannot use MacOS X , its just that i cant get used to that single click interface.


I am not telling you to use Mac OS X or anything but let me just tell you that Mac OS X fully supports right clicking and since I am from a Windows world, I've been using the secondary click (right click, that is) since day one. Just clearing up your little misconception.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

> I used to recommend people to try out OS X before making comments on it but I've stopped doing that now because I unfortunately recommended it to the wrong sort of people and have already been scarred by the experience of trying to show something better to someone. But no matter how you try to spin it,* there is little doubt that Mac OS X is the best operating system on the planet and anyone with sense (strong emphasis added) will have the same opinion if he/she has used the operating system.*


So, those who don't like or use Mac OS X are jerks as said directly by you.

Yup, we get your point.

Hey, icon spacing in finder.....eye openers here, didn't you said that was all a Lie, well. we all would like to know your reply then


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

The answer to your question is yes, they are.

This is a post from aditya.shevade in another topic:





			
				aditya.shevade said:
			
		

> ... my laptop (HP-nx6110-pc416av)will be a year old on 4th June, and I already have had 3 HDD, 2 DVD-writer, one Motherboard, one Bluetooth dongle replacements. And still, the 3rd DVD writer is going down. (or has already gone down, takes an hour to copy data from DVD-HDD (4GB) and 50 minutes to write DVD (4GB). And I use sony DVDs, which are quite good).
> 
> And, I have been asking for complete replacement since the first month (when the problems began), and HP people are not listening. OK, fine, but at least provide good service, but no, I had one guy give me a lecture on how nero cannot write DVDs and that I MUST use bundelled S/W (sonic) to burn then (which actually takes more time than nero). Plus, the are slow to respond on live chat.
> 
> Again, the parts replaced are not compatible with the ones for which they were replaced. My first DVD-writer could write DVD-RAM and DVD+R/RW DL, but the 2 replaced cannot even write DVD+R/RW DL, leave RAM. So, I am not at all satisfied with HP.


Does this mean Hewlett-Packard is a crap company that makes equally crappy products? No, it doesn't. Every company turns out lemons sometimes and some customers end up getting the rough end of the stick. It does not mean the whole company is crap. Yes, it is for that particular person (and he will recommend others to stay away from that company), but not for me, not for others who have HP products and find them good enough.

I hope this puts things into perspective.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

Gr8, fellow members, according to arya we are all jerks cos we do not use Mac OS X or Apple products. That explains the maturity he has.

By the way, I was talking about the reply to the eye openers in which u said "*no chance in hell IE 7 can darg & drop to Photoshop*".


----------



## iMav (Jun 4, 2007)

> I used to recommend people to try out OS X before making comments on it but I've stopped doing that now


 tht was coz first u werent aware of the fact tht some day mac cud be installed on a normal pc and u thought 1 wud need a mac to try it and tht being a far fetched dream for some they wont reply to the stupid illusions created by you and andy ... but now things are different


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## goobimama (Jun 4, 2007)

I was one of those who didn't "go all out" into recommending an Apple to someone who asked me what laptop to buy. I would drop the thing about Apple, but I always said, don't come crying to me if you make the wrong choice. Ultimately they would go and buy a lenovo or a dell (my recommendations other than Apple). 

Then came along this little girl (actually, she's 20) who wanted a laptop. I just gave my usual try the Macbook story, but she said no, not apple. Then when she went to the Apple corner to pick up an iPod nano, she saw the macbook and said what the hell, she'll give it a try. Immediately, from the store itself she calls me up. "Milind I want the Macbook!". First she was drawn by its sleek looks, but after the guy at the showroom showed her how to use frontrow, and all the other wonderful features, she just couldn't turn back. 

Ordered the new model with C2D 2.0Ghz, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD for 61k (the guy was quoting 65k, but I have some influence there....).


----------



## iMav (Jun 4, 2007)

well thrs more difference between girls and guys than just their apearance


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## led_shankar (Jun 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> well thrs more difference between girls and guys than just their apearance


That sort of attitude sucks. Have you ever done anything like, say, Grace Hopper?


----------



## goobimama (Jun 4, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> well thrs more difference between girls and guys than just their apearance



Shame on you!


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

Out of the box MacOS X looks flashy, the default application although don't do much, but like I said, they look flashy & good & you cannot deny the fact that girls do not usually like the fact that they want to configure there computer at all.

Now, one thing is true. Other then Acer Ferrari, Gemstone or Asus lambhorgini laptops I haven't seen many flashy laptops. Dell XPS & HP is there but it is not as glossy or flashy as Macbook which would appeal to girls but the industrial & rugged looks please is boys more. Besides, girls like to be different in the crowd, if in a class everyone uses Windows, & she uses Mac she is automatically unique (refer to legally blond 1 )

The gal, as I interpret didn't wanted to configure much in her computer. She just wanted her work to be done & was willing to pay for it, well in that case Mac isn't bad. You don't want value for money but flashy things then buy Mac. Simple. Macbook isn't much powerful at 61k cos at 58k you can get a HP DV6226TX but what the hell, Macbook looks like a show piece, so why not buy it if u have money.

I gave my sister a user in Windows Vista to use. She hated the different looks compared to Winodws XP to which she was used to. Well, I took some time, & configred it girly (ya ya, i changed the aero glass colour to pink too but in the end made it blue) & Now she is in love with it. She even said "I am paying to Upgrade the hardware & gfx card if u like" , I said no thanx there is no need to upgrade anything.

Milind, good advice. She is truly a customar who doesn't care for a particular brand & buys whatever pleases her.

By the way, mannan isn't wrong. He is just saying the thing in wrong manner

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



			
				arya said:
			
		

> I used to recommend people to try out OS X before making comments on it but I've stopped doing that now


I guess you used to do that thinking that Since Mac OS X can only be installed on a Mac, then there are 2 ways to use it

1) Apple store, where you can't use it for many hours like home so you won't have time to find short comings, on which case you will buy it soon

2) If you buy it, hell obviously you are going to use it. You won't throw a 61k laptop if u don't like the OS, you will get used to not liking it.

Now since we are using it in our nearest apple store for as many hours, the myth has been busted. I wonder why you have not replied to...

1) My reply to your sig explaining new features which go way beyond anything that MacOS X offers

2) My Eye openers to your *"No chance in hell" *comments
_____________________________________________________________________________________

I just tried the so called column view of Mac OS X, here are the short comings & pros.

1) It is a bad copy of Windows Explorer Tree view

2) You can nevigate from one folder back to another folder backwards easily

Edit : Columns can be resized by draging the drag area at the bottom of column partition line.

*img475.imageshack.us/img475/6192/columnviewxb5.th.jpg

Finder sux more then Windows Explorer
_____________________________________________________________________________________

For those saying that Fliptab is a clone of Expose, here is an eye opener.

Fliptab is nothing but the enhancement of alt+TAb which is available since Windows 98. Windows XP users already had a powertoy & various 3rd party application which used to do this long before Expose came in Mac or Windows Vista came with fliptab.

Here is how Expose looks like on a Mac. It shows the thumbnails of all the Windows available, on your screen. Thumbnails do not have same dimension & the dimension differs from window to window. Some Windows are big means the thumbnail is also big & differently shaped. This preview is made on top of the original desktop on a layer.

*img485.imageshack.us/img485/6241/exposekn4.th.jpg

This is how FlipTab looks like on Windows Vista. It also shows previews of all the windows open on your desktop however it doesn't shows them on another layer on top of the desktop, instead it makes a new Window & shows the thumbnail in that Windows. That background of the FlipTab is the Window itself. All the thumbnails are equal sized. If a Windows is "long but not wide" it is shown as "long but not wide" in FlipTab.

*img364.imageshack.us/img364/3640/fliptabrh4.jpg

Here is another feature in Microsoft Windows which is available if you are using a Microsoft Mouse. It is known as Instant Preview. This is more like FlipTab without a background. It also shows equal sized preview thumbnails of Windows open on your desktop in another layer. However it doesn't dims the background.

*img478.imageshack.us/img478/4303/instantpreviewpr2.th.jpg

This is the well knows Flip3D. It shows the preview of all the windows open on your desktop in a diagonal way. The previews are very big compared to FlipTAB or Expose or Instant preview & you need to cycle between the windows to see them either using the tab key or Mouse wheel.

*img392.imageshack.us/img392/7884/fip3dhm7.jpg

Now as you can see, there is only one thing common in all the 4 methods. *They all show thumbnail previews of open Windows.

* (The Windows Vista images are quite old)

Now *if Apple has a Patent for "A method to display thumbnail Preview of windows open in an operating system"* which can only be granted by the US Of A Patent department, *then yeah, everything is a copy of Expose 

*Fellow members, you decide that whether FlipTab & flip3d is a copy of Expose or not. Cos alt+Tab & Powertoy for WinXP was already available in Windows long before Mac OS X came with Expose. How else can someone show Preview of open Windows on screen.?
___________________________________________________________________________________

Arya & nepcker, you talk about Apple's innovation & creativity, why not provide us with some new innovation here on "How to show preview of open Windows, on the screen". Let me give u some starting points.

1) Preview in the form of a sidebar with all the Window thumbnails showing in it. This sidebar has arrows at the top & bottom to cycle or you can use mouse wheel to cycle or keyboard up down key & click on it to open that particular window. You can click in this same manner on FlipTab.

2) Preview in the form of some dock on top of the screen, with rest being the same as above.

In both the case of FlipTab & Expose, you need to click on that particular Window thumbnail to open it.


----------



## kalpik (Jun 4, 2007)

Hmm.. Keyboard sales are up! Thanks to you guys! You guys must be needing a new keyboard every month due to all this typing you do!


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> Hmm.. Keyboard sales are up! Thanks to you guys! You guys must be needing a new keyboard every month due to all this typing you do!



hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :ROFL:

Nah, i m still trying to get used to the weird shape of MS Natural multimedia keyboard 4000 i m using. Never used a split type keyboard before.

Arya bought a keyboard skin recently, no wonder he has been advertising Macs a lot in this forum. The text on keyboard keys must have washed out due to all this typing with his sweaty fingers due to overheating Macbook pro.


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 4, 2007)

os x is really cool  
@gx_saurav is power management of os x working on ur system because display is not turning on on my system 
*thakur.dheeraj.googlepages.com/Picture1.jpg


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## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

@ Dheeraj

Don't post such big images in forum directly, either resize them or post as thumbnail.

Power Management will not work here properly. I have it uninstalled becauses I don't use it on my PC. It requires Mac hardware.


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## kiran_aryan (Jun 4, 2007)

@desi-tek
u can set ur display to turn off in x minutes. 
however, if u use stand-by, the problem occurs when waking it up. it just can't wake up unless u patch the kernel.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

Mac user?



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> I was one of those who didn't "go all out" into recommending an Apple to someone who asked me what laptop to buy. I would drop the thing about Apple, but I always said, don't come crying to me if you make the wrong choice.


Same here. Just the other day, I unfortunately had to help someone configure a Dell for himself.



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> Ultimately they would go and buy a lenovo or a dell (my recommendations other than Apple).
> 
> Then came along this little girl (actually, she's 20) who wanted a laptop. I just gave my usual try the Macbook story, but she said no, not apple. Then when she went to the Apple corner to pick up an iPod nano, she saw the macbook and said what the hell, she'll give it a try. Immediately, from the store itself she calls me up. "Milind I want the Macbook!".


My sister wanted to buy a notebook and she saw the MacBook. She is completely blown over by the looks and is buying it; even though her husband (my _jijaaji_) is completely in favour of Lenovo/IBM notebooks and Windows. 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> 3) When u click on a file, the preview is very small & the columns cannot be resized.
> 
> 4) Well, the columns cannot be resized at all


Stop using computers. Now. Eddie's signature sums it up perfectly: "Windows users shouldn't get to use the real computers. They know just enough to be dangerous."
He is right.

Look, there is no harm in acknowledging it. We will not tease you. It comes naturally to some people while others have a hard time trying to use computers. You belong to the latter category but there is nothing to be ashamed of. Seriously.

We cannot save text files, mount ISOs or resize the columns in the Finder. Yeah, totally dude, totally. You are such a genius.


----------



## nepcker (Jun 4, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, I just mentioned what Mac ads said.
> 
> 
> Did you forget to read? I said, NVIDIA & ATI gives the OpenGL drivers to Apple which audits them for there OS. It is same as NVIDIA & ATI giving drivers to Microsoft for WHQL Logo, & WHQLed drivers hardly ever crash.
> ...



Sorry, I currently don't have time to reply to the whole of your thread. I may do it later. (I haven't even seen the video)

On Mac OS X, to move files between drives, you command-drag. If it is within the volume, than simply drag will work. I don't see any complications there.

My reply was for this statement: "You don't even need to press command+drag, just drag." If you drag between volumes, the files will be copied, not moved.


----------



## kiran_aryan (Jun 4, 2007)

> Name a good Vista feature that goes beyond what's in Tiger. Yeah, I can't either.



1. Volume Shadow Copy in Vista Ultimate (which is being "copied" in Leopard as Time Machine)

2. Media Center. FrontRow has far less features when compared to Media Center that can watch/record live TV, play radio etc. Ofcourse it also depends on the compatibility of your tuner card.

3. DirectX 10 ...just kidding  However, Halo 2, Crysis are set to take PC gaming to the next level. Can Macs come a step ahead of gaming? They still have the OpenGL power. There are games from Id Software and some of the popular games are ported/published by MacSoft too but Macs are still no match for PC games.

PS: I use Vista only for gaming (XP runs games better though) and for the Media Center. The other 70% of the time, I use Tiger and Ubuntu.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Sorry, I currently don't have time to reply to the whole of your thread. I may do it later. (I haven't even seen the video)
> 
> On Mac OS X, to move files between drives, you command-drag. If it is within the volume, than simply drag will work. I don't see any complications there.
> 
> My reply was for this statement: "You don't even need to press command+drag, just drag." If you drag between volumes, the files will be copied, not moved.


Dude, you must be touched in the head! You expect him to press the Command key and simultaneously drag a file. What! Look, you will be held responsible if he suffers from brain haemorrhage trying to do something so complex and advanced.

He cannot even resize columns in the Finder, dude - cut the kid some slack. Poor GX! Calm down, OK. You do not need to do all those complex maneuvers. nepcker was just toying with you. Breathe deeply now, your heart rate will return to normal.


----------



## kiran_aryan (Jun 4, 2007)

Try dragging 20 directories (or should I say folders? ) in Vista and see how frustrating that looks. It wastes lot of time in "calculating remaining time" while showing no progress and suddenly the progress bar moves a mile ahead. How flawed is that?


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> 1. Volume Shadow Copy in Vista Ultimate (which is being "copied" in Leopard as Time Machine)


If I am not wrong, you cannot retrieve individual files from a VSC backup (I might be wrong though). And I can bet you that the next version of Windows will have something extremely similar to Time Machine.



			
				kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> 2. Media Center. FrontRow has far less features when compared to Media Center that can watch/record live TV, play radio etc. Ofcourse it also depends on the compatibility of your tuner card.


Though you can enable Internet radio in Front Row with a little software hack, I do admit that WMC is far more advanced than Front Row (however, the remotes for WMC PCs suck big time, specially HP's).



			
				kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> 3. DirectX 10 ...just kidding  However, Halo 2, Crysis are set to take PC gaming to the next level. Can Macs come a step ahead of gaming? They still have the OpenGL power. There are games from Id Software and some of the popular games are ported/published by MacSoft too but Macs are still no match for PC games.


It is hardly a secret that Windows is the best platform for gaming on computers. 



			
				kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> The other 70% of the time, I use Tiger and Ubuntu.


Do you have a Macintosh... or a hackintosh? If you own a Mac, which one is it? 



			
				kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> Try dragging 20 directories (or should I say folders? ) in Vista and see how frustrating that looks. It wastes lot of time in "calculating remaining time" while showing no progress and suddenly the progress bar moves a mile ahead. How flawed is that?


When I complained about this exact thing, gx_saurav's highly educated and civil reply was "Oh thats not Vista's problem, you don't know how to use Windows. Stick with your default configured Mac."

BTW, you have spoken something against Windows. You are officially on gx_saurav's hate list now. You must be trembling in your pants.


----------



## kiran_aryan (Jun 4, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> If I am not wrong, you cannot retrieve individual files from a VSC backup (I might be wrong though). And I can bet you that the next version of Windows will have something extremely similar to Time Machine.
> 
> Though you can enable Internet radio in Front Row with a little software hack, I do admit that WMC is far more advanced than Front Row (however, the remotes for WMC PCs suck big time, specially HP's).
> 
> ...



1. Yes, VSC doesn't work on individual files like your doc,txt,mp3. I am sure Time Machine will be far more superior and user friendly.

2. When I meant radio, I meant both FM and internet radio . Internet Radio can be tuned even through iTunes I guess (no big deal). I use Pinnacle Remote in WMC. I hate HP/Compaq PCs MCPCs 

3. My dad owns 17" Core2Duo MBP and a hackintosh (a near perfect mac ) on PC which I rarely use (just for a show-off and to make my friends jealous). One day, when I start earning I will surely buy a high-end iMac with 24" or 30" Apple Cinema Display


----------



## aryayush (Jun 4, 2007)

kiran_aryan said:
			
		

> 1. Yes, VSC doesn't work on individual files like your doc,txt,mp3. I am sure Time Machine will be far more superior and user friendly.


Of course. BTW, I don't really get how someone can say that Time Machine is "copied" from VSC. Just because both are back-up applications? Makes little sense to me.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Stop using computers. Now. Eddie's signature sums it up perfectly: "Windows users shouldn't get to use the real computers. They know just enough to be dangerous."
> He is right.
> 
> Look, there is no harm in acknowledging it. We will not tease you. It comes naturally to some people while others have a hard time trying to use computers. You belong to the latter category but there is nothing to be ashamed of. Seriously.


Edit : My Mistake : *Columns can be resized,* there are drag handles at the bottom of each coloumn. A very bad way to show where to drag from unlike Windows Explorer in which you can click anywhere on the column line.

*img53.imageshack.us/img53/5924/ffnr6.th.jpg



> If I am not wrong, you cannot retrieve individual files from a VSC backup (I might be wrong though). And I can bet you that the next version of Windows will have something extremely similar to Time Machine


System restore is for whole system, while Windows backup is for individual files. Do some research. Vista by default makes periodic backups of Document, Pictures, Music & Movies folder.


> When I complained about this exact thing, gx_saurav's highly educated and civil reply was "Oh thats not Vista's problem, you don't know how to use Windows. Stick with your default configured Mac."


Well, ya it is a problem, but we have cut option to take care of this which Mac Lacks.

Oh & by the way, there is another remedy which some people forget to look at. Click on Organize on the toolbar -> Show check box -> Now check on the files or folder that you want to drag or perform any act at, then simply drag any of it, it will drag all the checked folders



> Of course. BTW, I don't really get how someone can say that Time Machine is "copied" from VSC. Just because both are back-up applications? Makes little sense to me.


Do reply to my last thread about Why FlipTab & Flip3D isn't Expose clones. Hey, where is the reply to eye openers.


----------



## iMav (Jun 4, 2007)

hmmmm .... replying to goobi and led what i meant was when u walk into a showroom of something only the goods will be old and she was a victim of being told only the good about the mac something tht had been happening on this forum until last month .... the mac hardware looks sleek and sexy ... the os doesnt have a bad look to it either but the problem is when u start using it and thts wat i meant wen i said tht thrs more difference we will weigh the options and not make an impromtu desicion where as as milind himself said she went to showroom .... the guy told her the goods of mac couple tht to its looks and milinds mac she made her choice ... nothing against girls in particular 

now coming to the topic ... arya i guess it is no secret tht mac isnt the best os it might be good for u but its not good enough wen compared to windows in more ways than 1


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

iMav, he will never admit that MacOS X isn't a flawed OS, how else will they appoint him in Apple store as Mac genius


----------



## goobimama (Jun 4, 2007)

Columns can be resized by either dragging the bottom handles OR just double clicking it. It resizes the column to the length of the longest filename. 

As for the telling only the goods, I also told her the bads of it (not writing to NTFS, single button) but all I could hear was "I'm fed up with Windows".

One sucky thing is that they didn't bundle along a carry case. This is since they introduced the macbook. I got a nice case logic carry case with the iBook. Zhovnyache.

As for Volume Shadow Copy, does anyone seriously think someone with limited tech knowledge is going to use that? Ever?


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 4, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> As for Volume Shadow Copy, does anyone seriously think someone with limited tech knowledge is going to use that? Ever?


Volume shadow copy is the name of the technology. The front end is Windows Backup & Restore centre which is there in the start menu itself. This is different from system restore which revarts system files too like some bad driver etc, Windows Backup, backs up everything. You can even save settings for automatic backup.

*img467.imageshack.us/img467/6384/windowsbackuphl2.jpg

Now, do whatever you want, if u screw something, you can simply get it back from the backup


----------



## blackleopard92 (Jun 5, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Columns can be resized by either dragging the bottom handles OR *just double clicking it.* It resizes the column to the length of the longest filename.



was just wondering whether it's possible in windows or not, and guess what? it is!!
further, with grouping enabled (details). it automatically groups different files according to major column specified, so then we can hide those simply by collasping the group.
eg, if u have about 100 dlls, and about 30 txt files in a folder, then i simply click the "type" column so that vista groups them by extension, then i collapse the dll group and then i can browse through my txt files without having a single dll in my way.
this grouping can be according to hundreds of details specified by vista, including tags, names, sizes, date modified, authors, titles, albums, artists, etc etc.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

blackleopard92 said:
			
		

> urther, with grouping enabled (details). it automatically groups different files according to major column specified, so then we can hide those simply by collasping the group.
> eg, if u have about 100 dlls, and about 30 txt files in a folder, then i simply click the "type" column so that vista groups them by extension, then i collapse the dll group and then i can browse through my txt files without having a single dll in my way.
> this grouping can be according to hundreds of details specified by vista, including tags, names, sizes, date modified, authors, titles, albums, artists, etc etc.


Thats another enhancement in Windows Explorer. sorting by groups of a particular file/tag/extension only 

This is a graphics representation.

*img479.imageshack.us/img479/9733/untitledwt6.th.jpg


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

I know you guys will never agree but
more features != better.

This feature only serves to complicate things for the user. When you sort by type, you can always view just the DLL portion of the folder. There is no need of an extra (scary) drop-down menu.
BTW, I'm assuming that if you back out of that folder and visit it later, it will still show just those DLLs unless you go back to that menu and deselect the option?


----------



## iMav (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> more features != better.


 hts another desparate statement coming from aguy who has been pwnd to the neck with proof


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> I know you guys will never agree but
> more features != better.



Obviously it is not. Now since Mac OS X doesn't provides many features compared to Vista, then it is not bad, *it is good that Mac lacks in features. 
* 


> *This feature only serves to complicate things for the user. *When you sort by type, you can always view just the DLL portion of the folder. There is no need of an extra (scary) drop-down menu.



The benifit of this way is not to replace the "Arrange Icons by type" feature. But to show only the dll files of this folder. Obviously u won't understand how windows works. This feature is transparent to user.

That drop down menu is there just to select, & since you do not know how to use windows, you also do not know that you can simply slick outside. Boy, another eye opener for u (buy me a McChicken burger).

Eye opener = Sort according to a particular file type in Windows.



> BTW, I'm assuming that if you back out of that folder and visit it later, it will still show just those DLLs unless you go back to that menu and deselect the option?



Nope, you assumption is wrong. See the Eye opener. You go back & if u come to the older folder again, you see everyfile.


----------



## eggman (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> I know you guys will never agree but
> more features != better.
> 
> This feature only serves to complicate things for the user.



Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha 
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha 


This must be the stupidest statement I ever read on this forum. Or in general. This is beyond stupidity.
        Seriously, how low can go?So according to you,any feature which Vista has and Mac doesn't will complicate things?Amazing


----------



## blackleopard92 (Jun 5, 2007)

the rt click menu is for additional options, generally, those listed are enough.
the screenshot is for windows folder, 
*img361.imageshack.us/img361/5958/untitledha7.th.jpg
here i have arranged by type simply by clicking the type column. then i simply collapsed various groups (indicated by clickable drop down arrows) to easily view .txt documents which otherwise are pain to navigate to.

P.S. can anybody help me change taskbar color? it doesnt match with the rest of theme...


----------



## iMav (Jun 5, 2007)

eggman said:
			
		

> This must be the stupidest statement I ever read on this forum. Or in general. This is beyond stupidity.
> Seriously, how low can go?So according to you,any feature which Vista has and Mac doesn't will complicate things?Amazing


 finally others on this member have started to realize how these mac boys act, react and talk ... absolute crap and rubbish


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

eggman said:
			
		

> Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
> Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
> 
> 
> ...


No, that is certainly not what I meant. The only reason I felt it would complicate things was because I thought that when a person set it to show only a particular set of files, it would stay that way until the user changed it back. If that had been the case, yes, it would have been a useless feature that complicates things. But since that isn't the case, it is a somewhat useful feature. However, I do not see the need to see only a particular type of files when you visit a folder so I cannot say that I miss this feature on Mac OS X.
And I stand by what I said earlier:
"more features != better".

If you find it stupid, you may laugh all you want to. (But I did not see you laughing when gx_saurav was suggesting that Windows does not need Exposé, or that it is a good feature that Windows does not recognise disc images.)



			
				blackleopard92 said:
			
		

> the rt click menu is for additional options, generally, those listed are enough.
> the screenshot is for windows folder,
> *img361.imageshack.us/img361/5958/untitledha7.th.jpg
> here i have arranged by type simply by clicking the type column. then i simply collapsed various groups (indicated by clickable drop down arrows) to easily view .txt documents which otherwise are pain to navigate to.


You mean like this?
*img467.imageshack.us/img467/1113/picture1vq7.th.png

They wouldn't be a pain to navigate to even if I did not have the ability to collapse those sections, but well, it is there anyway in case someone needs it.


----------



## nepcker (Jun 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Nope, I just mentioned what Mac ads said.



Please give the URL and exact line from a Mac ad that compares an unpatched Mac with a fully patched Windows PC.



> Did you forget to read? I said, NVIDIA & ATI gives the OpenGL drivers to Apple which audits them for there OS. It is same as NVIDIA & ATI giving drivers to Microsoft for WHQL Logo, & WHQLed drivers hardly ever crash.



Let's roll back the video tape. You said that there were limited video card options for Macs because Apple didn't make drivers for the rest. ATI and Nvidia develop the drivers (I really hope you can wrap your head around this concept). They don't make them for other cards. They make the OS X drivers to cards being manufactured for Macs only.



> Yup, talking about pathetic quality control



No, you were talking about a slim form factor causing premature failure. The failures you just mentioned were unrelated to form factor and in fact, were caused by faulty batteries that were in a number of manufacturer's PCs sold by Sony. And this is coming from the guy that said Mac hardware wasn't bad.



> Fliptab is Expose clone, how low can you go man, how low can u go.
> 
> Fliptab is mubh better then expose for Windows. Expose is good, but it is good for Mac OS X & isn't required on Windows UI.



Why is fliptab better? Smaller thumbnails? And then you say that Expose isn't required in the Windows UI, but ignore the fact that fliptab is.



> don't what you wanted to say, but in case you want me to enlighten you, here is an eye opener for u.



I would have downloaded the video (as you seem unable to communicate in text) but the video play failed (on a Windows PC I have access to).



> I tried textwragler, 9 MB for notepad, wow talk about efficiency. No wonder dll is better as it can be compressed in so many ways.



TextWrangler is a tad more advanced than Notepad (like a million times). If you want something simple (which I should have guessed to begin with), check out TextEdit, in your Applications folder right now. As for DLL being better, again, you're showing yourself as a troll.


----------



## eggman (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> But I did not see you laughing when gx_saurav was suggesting that Windows does not need Exposé


Cause , I agree with him.



			
				aryayush said:
			
		

> or that it is a good feature that Windows does not recognise disc images.


Maybe It slipped out of my eyes, I wont agree though. But its not that laughable.


----------



## iMav (Jun 5, 2007)

disc images loading wat a usp


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> No, that is certainly not what I meant. The only reason I felt it would complicate things was because I thought that when a person set it to show only a particular set of files, it would stay that way until the user changed it back. If that had been the case, yes, it would have been a useless feature that complicates things. But since that isn't the case, it is a somewhat useful feature.


Yada yada yada, since Mac doesn't have a feature (cut option or unified uninstaller or Better file management), that feature isn't required & will complicate things. Wow, what a gr8 logic



> And I stand by what I said earlier:
> "more features != better".


Hey, I follow your analogy for a while. Then why switch to MacOS X leopard from Tiger, i mean you are saying more feature doesn't mean better & according to you every subsequent release of Mac OS X is faster & has more feature then before, then you should stick to Tiger, isn't it?

Oh wait, Apple will make you upgrade or you will pirate or you will want to upgrade due to Job Factor



> If you find it stupid, you may laugh all you want to. (But I did not see you laughing when gx_saurav was suggesting that Windows does not need Exposé, or that it is a good feature that Windows does not recognise disc images.)


Nope, I still stand by my words. Expose might be a good feature on a Mac, but it is not something to be missed in Windows . Learn something about how Windows & Mac UI works.

by the way, what word in English dictionary is "recogni*s*e" 


> Please give the URL and exact line from a Mac ad that compares an unpatched Mac with a fully patched Windows PC.


See Mac Ad, about "Virus". Mac says "We do not get virus at all"



> No, you were talking about a slim form factor causing premature failure. The failures you just mentioned were unrelated to form factor and in fact, were caused by faulty batteries that were in a number of manufacturer's PCs sold by Sony. And this is coming from the guy that said Mac hardware wasn't bad.


I am not talking about the battery recall worldwide. I am talking about the various news we can read on engadget or ars or neowin.


> Why is fliptab better? Smaller thumbnails? And then you say that Expose isn't required in the Windows UI, but ignore the fact that fliptab is.


Why is expose better? Small thumbnail? I just replied to your statement that FlipTab is Expose clone. Well, I am asking all members here to read the post & reply here whether they think that a feature available in Windows since 2002 (with powertoy) is a clone of a Expose which came in 2004 or not.



> I would have downloaded the video (as you seem unable to communicate in text) but the video play failed (on a Windows PC I have access to).


Fellow members, did anyone else had the problem to play the video? If not then nepcker, you don't know how to use Windows or how to install codec.



> As for DLL being better, again, you're showing yourself as a troll.


Shell I with the help of any developer prove why dll = dynamic link library is better then bin = binary file.

_



			or that it is a good feature that Windows does not recognise disc images.
		
Click to expand...

I guess you again forgot to read. First I never mentioned this. Yes, Windows doesn't recognise mounting disk images like ISO the way Apple does, but hey an OEM PC comes usually with nero or roxio which has virtual disk support. You said "Why would anyone want Daemon tools on Mac". First go & find out what daemon tools does & then come here & say why U don't need it. My reply was to this comment of yours.





			disc images loading wat a usp 

Click to expand...

You just gave el jobso another idea for Mac AD.

*Buy a Mac, you can mount disk images out of the box.*

Consumer = So? Daemon Tools (Free) Nero Image drive with my Dell (Free)...whats the point of buying a Mac for this only?
​ _

Seriously, Andy & arya made a novelty of Mac OS X, after using it for some days it all seems Phony. There is nothing special or compelling to switch to a Mac from Windows Vista. Yaar why switch & buy a new computer just to run Mac OS X when it doesn't gives evern simple features.

Anyone in this forum, I would urge all of you to use Mac OS X the way I m using it on my nearest Apple Store , you will come to know yourself how good or how bad it is.

& just to tell u arya, Mac OS X doesn't mounts bin or cue disk images. So, since there is no Daemon tools for Mac, I can't mount them.

Feature (daemon tools in Vista) does means better.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> by the way, what word in English dictionary is "recogni*s*e"


This has gone beyond normal conversation now. I had no idea at all that I was trying to converse with a person who has never heard a word as commonplace and simple as 'recognise'. WOW!

*Oxford English Dictionary:*


> *rec•og•nise* |ˈrekigˌnīz; ˈrekə(g)ˌnīz|
> verb [ trans. ]
> *1* identify (someone or something) from having encountered them before; know again : _I recognised her when her wig fell off_ | _Julia hardly recognised Jill when they met._
> • identify from knowledge of appearance or character : _Pat is very good at recognising wildflowers._
> ...




I am sorry for whatever I've uttered till today. I had no idea I was talking to a six year old. I did get some anvil-sized hints time and again, but I always ignored them. Not any more. We'll talk later when you complete pre-school. OK? Good.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

Shouldn't that be "recogni*z*ed" in this case


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

We, in India, follow British English, not the American bastardised version of it. You yourself mentioned the English dictionary, not the American dictionary. So - no, it will be 'recognised' it this case (and you are not supposed to use double quotes unless you are quoting someone).


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> We, in India, follow British English, not the American bastardised version of it. You yourself mentioned the English dictionary, not the American dictionary. So - no, it will be 'recognised' it this case (and you are not supposed to use double quotes unless you are quoting someone).



Oh My bad, I forgot when u have nothing proper to say, you start mocking other's english.

American english though stupid, doesn't breaks any rules of English.

Arya, eye openers, hey, do u know how to admit that u were ignorent in the past.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Oh My bad, I forgot when u have nothing proper to say, you start mocking other's english.


If my memory serves me well, and it does, you were the one who started it hoping to mock me but like always, the tables turned on you. Now you come up with the standard excuse.

I wouldn't even have replied to your excessively repetitive and useless post if I hadn't come across that uproariously lame statement that sounded like it was typed by a six year old.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

Wow, rejoice & jump all over. So many posts & I m still waiting for a half decent reply for the ignorence u showed in the past posts.


----------



## shantanu (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> We, in India, follow British English, not the American bastardised version of it. You yourself mentioned the English dictionary, not the American dictionary. So - no, it will be 'recognised' it this case (and you are not supposed to use double quotes unless you are quoting someone).


(please suggest me to a link where it is written that we follow british english.)
do we select English(britian) as an option in your keyboard layout.. no we select English(india)or english(USA) so we follow American English..

mind it arya what you say.. we never follow British English(britishers left india but they forgot you ),, Its English(india) and i think india has its own identity.. well you may not respect india or indian language.. but can you even think of HINDI once.. i dont think so.. well as per your mentality you will write a sentense in hindi in your next post, just to prove how immature you are.


----------



## freshseasons (Jun 5, 2007)

Dry humor (or rather humour in British) at its satirical best! 
  This is better than what we usually deal as in innuendo-laden sarcasm.
   Digit is getting better ,thanks to the over-working members.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> (please suggest me to a link where it is written that we follow british english.)
> do we select English(britian) as an option in your keyboard layout.. no we select English(india)or english(USA) so we follow American English..
> 
> mind it arya what you say.. we never follow British English(britishers left india but they forgot you ),, Its English(india) and i think india has its own identity.. well you may not respect india or indian language.. but can you even think of HINDI once.. i dont think so.. well as per your mentality you will write a sentense in hindi in your next post, just to prove how immature you are.


Go and open those school books you had in the junior years. Open the _Radiant Reader_ or the _Figments of Imagination_. Look up which convention they follow - you'll find that it is British English.

And there is no such thing as Indian English. English is not India's launguage and there is no Indian variation of it. We follow original English and that is Britian's. In fact, the whole world, excluding USA and maybe a few minions, follows British English and India is no different.


----------



## eggman (Jun 5, 2007)

Thread going offtopic.......
Its better if we get back to the main discussion.........


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

What discussion! We were having a discussion!?


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 5, 2007)

Of course we were, you were getting pwned before you started advertising the net articles on the other thread instead of replying to my eye openers.

So you still believe that your Mac OS X with less features & Apple hardware only is better then Vista with plethora of technology & any hardware? That TPM Module u see on your Macbook which prevents Mac OS X from installing on any generic PC (Without hackintosh) was also a MS initiative.

Oh sorry, of course u do believe that.


----------



## eggman (Jun 5, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> What discussion! We were having a discussion!?


Oh I forgot. You started the thread with the whole intentions of fighting and advertising. So I guess its insulting label it as Discussion. My bad.


----------



## aryayush (Jun 5, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> So you still believe that your less features, Apple hardware only OS is better then Vista with plethora of technology?
> 
> Oh sorry, ofcourse u do.


And so do the folks at Laptopmag.com, not to mention every other person on Earth with a functioning brain cell. There might be some cost related reasons why someone might prefer non-Apple hardware and by extension, Windows too. But saying that Mac OS X is not any better than Windows is just plain stupid. PC World and PC Magazine also rate Mac OS X higher than Windows; that guy who was swindled by Apple and hates them also favoured Mac OS X. There are four Mac users on this forum and all four of them prefer Mac OS X to Windows. Jim Allchin of Microsoft knows Apple is far ahead of them. Every review I've _ever_ read has rated Mac OS X as the better OS.



Mac OS X Tiger vs. Windows Vista
*In the battle for personal computing dominance, these champs go ten rounds to determine which OS takes the spoils.*

By Jeffrey L. Wilson 
05/31/2007



Before Vista's January launch, eagle-eyed computer geeks who pored over every press release, statement, and image released by Microsoft in regards to the new operating system noticed a not-too-subtle resemblance between the new Vista OS and Apple's Mac OS X Tiger. Some said Microsoft shamelessly lifted key aspects of OS X Tiger; the more level-headed saw the similarities as a natural progression in the evolution of Windows. Regardless of where you stand on Vista's "originality," its changes and upgrades make it more intuitive and user-friendly than XP.

With the postponement of Mac OS X Leopard until October (Apple says the delay is due to putting the finishing touches on the iPhone), OS X Tiger will get a few more months of action out of it before Apple's new OS hoopla hits. So as we await Leopard's release, it must be asked: How does Vista compare to the venerable OS X Tiger? To find out, we pitted the Apple MacBook Black running OS X Tiger against the HP Pavilion dv6000 running Vista Home Premium.


*Round 1: Interface >>*


Yeah, now they are also biased, I suppose. Everyone who speaks in favour of Mac OS X is a biased and unreliable person.

I have yet to read a single review that does a shootout of both Windows and Mac OS X and Windows actually comes out on top (at some credible website, not from the mouths of just a bunch of six year olds using a computer for the first time).


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 6, 2007)

> Yeah, now they are also biased, I suppose. Everyone who speaks in favour of Mac OS X is a biased and unreliable person.


Actually that isn't our attitude it is macboy's attitude which we can see in this very thread.

You know you can convince someone for a Mac by flooding him with Mac news & good things but not the bad thing. *Why don't you also advertise in your sig "Shortcoming of MacOS X" & link to this thread*. Oh wait, first rule of marketing "Show the customer what he wants to see".

Following that, arya....trust me, you are the best Apple Sales Man out there, no wait in this forum. There are other macboys here too, such as goobi & andy & yeah they are smugs, but all macboys are. At least they are not salesman.

We are windows users, who do not rely only on internet. Sure MacOS X looks sober then Windows XP, but like I have mentioned that is the only thing it is good at, looking cute. The moment you come to use it, you will know where it lacks & prevails. 



> But saying that Mac OS X is not any better than Windows is just plain stupid.


1) Mac has no cut option

2) No DirectX means not enough games

3) No ReadyDrive feature

4) No Exchange server (Without MS products)

5) Lack of 3rd party applications

6) No ability to show the content on a secondary smaller screen, a.k.a Nvidia Preface/ Windows SideShow

7) Can't use USB Flash drives as temporary RAM

8 ) Doesn't provide a compelling file management systems.

9) Doesn't comes with a proper Photo Management application

10) Far more expensive then what they should be charged with. Even people of USA & Europe admit it.

11) No Media Center Capability/ Pathetic TV tuner support. There is only one EyeTV which works with there own TV Tuner card.

12) Lack of 3rd party hardware support, only Apple supplied & some of the Apple certified products work. Try plugging an Hauppage TV Tuner card in Mac or XFX 8600GT PCIe

13) Can't be upgraded like PCs

14) Mac pro is the only "Desktop" which starts at $2400 & cannot be upgraded. You cannot buy after market Core 2 Duo & replace the existing CPU in it.

15) Mac mini is no value for money. It is only small. 35K for a CPU without any graphics card? You call that viable? 

16) Dock doesn't groups similar application windows.

17) If a program is not native, it runs slow.

18 ) If you are using some USB Drive, you must eject it else the files in it might get curropt even though they are not in use. You must eject it, unlike Windows where when the write operation is complete, you can pull it out easily.

19) You cannot resize a Window from any side, just the south east side.

20) If you select multiple folders in Finder & right click to "Get Info", you are left with 6 panes with individual info & not a combined info together like Windows, which shows the total folder size or number of files etc.

21) There is no backup restore option. There is no system restore option either.

2) More which I don't have time here to write.

Seriously, quit copying things from the net & write here from your own experience which I don't think you have cos you only know about mac & not how things work or computers.

Hmm,.....nope, this all won't buzz a bell in your head. You will bypass this post. Mac OS X is still good for you cos you don't know how to work, you just know how to look at the UI & its beauty with no productivity.

Fellow members, we have given a lot of points to start with, which conclude that though *MacOS X is a good operating system which forces you to buy new hardware, however it is nothing better then what Vista has to offer which runs on your existing PC. You decide whether Mac OS X is a better operating system then what Vista has to offer. Keep in mind we are not talking about just the gray colour user interface Mac OS has.*

Well, good night.


----------



## iMav (Jun 6, 2007)

now if arya comes and copies something he is no smarter than my 10yr bro who is adamant tht wat he says is right not bothering to listen to rational views ....


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 6, 2007)

I wonder where he is now, must be looking for more artilcles to copy paste. He relies on others words only.

His stupidity was shown with his statement

More features != better


----------



## led_shankar (Jun 6, 2007)

Subah Subah kyun ladte ho, mere bhai?


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 6, 2007)

Sorry, just came from gym. Treadmill broke when i was running on it , so thoda mood garam hai.

Peace, arya...we admit you are nothing but a marketing agent for Mac trying to get a job in Apple. You are doing nothing wrong, any marketing agent will act like this.

*I now pronounce Aayush the official Apple salesman in digit forum. Contact Aayush for all your Apple buying needs. 

* He is also a Mac Genius who has no idea how to work on computers or what to do when the EFI breaks down or WiFi doesn't work with Asus Wireless router as they are to be blamed cos they are not "Airport". 

More features doesn't equals to better, then he is going to stay with Tiger, cos Leopard will provide more features, but since more features doesn't mean better, if he has some senses, he won't upgrade 

We Windows users emphasize on features & then the looks, Macs they are all looks with not enough compelling features. Arya, if you knew anything about what UI is, you would have never said this line of more features not being equal to better. *UI as well as features both matters, just not UI alone*

About Mac being the only hardware which can triple boot Windows , Mac OS X & Linux, refer to my blog 

This just in.

To view Mac Partition in Windows, you need an application called Mac Drive which costs $50. This is the best way as Mac partition is mounted as just another hard disk in "My Computer".

However if you do not wish to pay & need to access Mac partitions once in a while then you can use HFSExplorer.

Using this, you can view & copy files from your Mac partition. Keep in mind that this is only for copying files from Mac partitions & not for copying files to Mac partition. For that, use Mac Drive which is so far the best option. It is strictly a free solution which just works. Though not the best solution out there.

This is how it looks like, it is made in JAVA.

*img204.imageshack.us/img204/461/untitledff2.jpg


----------



## nepcker (Jun 6, 2007)

Most people on this forum don't seem to find faults in gx_saurav's posts. He posts damn incorrect and funny things. I don't usually take the time to reply to lenghhy posts of gx_saurav, but to the one I have, he has been almost speechless. 

In almost any thread about macs, he will go ahead and post all the faults of macs and Mac OS X he has found out.  And most of them are utterly false. Like the Mac Pro can't be upgraded. I currently have a Mac Pro with 2 dual-core Xeons clocked at 3GHz, 3GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Apple HD Cinema Display, 16x SuperDrive etc. Now I can upgrade the CPU to an octocore Xeons, RAM to 16GB, HDD to 3TB, display to more than a single Apple 30" Cinema Displays, two 16x SuperDrive, etc. If he thinks that these are not upgrades, then what are?

Then he says that to run Mac OS X, you need to buy a new Mac. There are several people who are running Mac OS X tiger on their 10-year-old macs, without much upgrade. As for Vista, even low-end PCs bought last year might not support Vista with Aero, at least not without significant upgrade. Now, is there *any* 10 year old PC that will run Vista? I guess not.

Don't tell me about running Vista without Aero on a old PC. Who cares about Vista without Aero? Vista without Aero = Windows XP.

As for "more features != better", this isn't completely true. The true statement is: _More features *does not necessarily* mean better_. Yes, having more features is better, but this depends on how useful the features are. The features should be useful, not just be flashy.

About mounting images by default, OS X is certainly more superior than Vista. It mounts ._iso, .dmg,_ etc by default. No one here is advertising it as "Buy Windows. It has a Cut option.", even adding something like that on their signatures. OS X *does* have a cut option, it's that some idiots here cannot figure it oit.

And if anyone here is thinking that Vista is better than OS X, *they're wrong*. I haven't even got into the flaws of Vista yet. When I do, *then* this thread will be interesting.


----------



## iMav (Jun 6, 2007)

well how about to telling those idiots how to cut-paste files between drives? ... dmg is mac specific so dont brag about that 

no big deal run mac os on a 10 year mac .... thats it what u got to say to the entire listing gx gave ... that u can upgrade ur mac and install mac on a 10 yr old pc ...

btw to add to that list:

 u will have a cluttered desktop if u have more than 1 drive (partiton) cz they are all displayed there ... and as in my case one entiree side is filled with drive coz i have 7

ps i really wanna know how do u cut paste files/folders between files ... dont tell me drag while holding command ... coz thts exactly what cut is meant to avoid

how about u getting into the flaws of vista ... yes it will be interesting u telling us that vista cant load iso by default big deal ...


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 6, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Most people on this forum don't seem to find faults in gx_saurav's posts. He posts damn incorrect and funny things. I don't usually take the time to reply to lenghhy posts of gx_saurav, but to the one I have, he has been almost speechless.


Nah, I don't find it relevant to reply. 



> In almost any thread about macs, he will go ahead and post all the faults of macs and Mac OS X he has found out. And most of them are utterly false. Like the Mac Pro can't be upgraded. I currently have a Mac Pro with 2 dual-core Xeons clocked at 3GHz, 3GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Apple HD Cinema Display, 16x SuperDrive etc. Now I can upgrade the CPU to an octocore Xeons, RAM to 16GB, HDD to 3TB, display to more than a single Apple 30" Cinema Displays, two 16x SuperDrive, etc. If he thinks that these are not upgrades, then what are?


Yeh, you can upgrade them from components bought from Apple itself, you call that upgrade? Tell me nepcker, *can you go into the market, buy a MSI GeForce 8600GT & plug it in your Mac Pro? Will it work? No it won't cos Mac graphics card come with EFI bound ROM which only works with Mac.*

In Mac Pro there is an option select among 4 graphics card, but hey, there are more then 12 current gen graphics card in the market, can I plug any one of it in Mac? just tell me this.

Yup you can upgrade the CPU, but did you forgot to read that I mentioned already that Mac Pro is the only "Desktop" which starts at $2400, lolz...Windows Vista "Desktops" Start at $600. Can you upgrade the CPU in Mac mini or iMac

HDD to 3TB, plz plz plz go in the market buy a Seagate 750 GB HD & plug it in your Mac Pro, check if it even plugs in it . Have u tried opening it & looking at the connector.

Upgrading to more then one Single Display, hey is that a CPU upgrade? Anyone sane here will not keep monitor update in "system upgrade". Fellow members, am I wrong?

Super Drive, again...buy a Sony DW-Q120A DVD Writer that I am using & try pluging it in the Mac Pro. 

* You can upgrade to only what Apple provides you*, & we all know that *Any OEM upgrade is usually costly whether it is PC or Mac*



> Then he says that to run Mac OS X, you need to buy a new Mac. There are several people who are running Mac OS X tiger on their 10-year-old macs, without much upgrade. As for Vista, even low-end PCs bought last year might not support Vista with Aero, at least not without significant upgrade. Now, is there any 10 year old PC that will run Vista? I guess not.


I am telling you, plz try running Tiger on a 10 years old Mac with PowerPC G3 with 64 MB RAM & 8 MB ATI Rage graphics, plz do so. You have said it 4 times in this forum, & I just want you to go try it yourself. Then come here & say how "usable" Tiger was on that computer.  Plz do so, your statements are completely idiotic.



> Don't tell me about running Vista without Aero on a old PC. Who cares about Vista without Aero? Vista without Aero = Windows XP.


Wow, so according to you Vista has only one thing new, Aero. This should be recorded as the Pinnacle of Nepcker's stupidity. Hey, I m gonna point some client features here, which might make it clear to you.

* Vista without Aero = Windows XP + Windows MCE + DirectX 10 (Games) + Windows ReadyDrive (Hybrid HD) + Instant search + Windows Sideshow + Backup & Restore of whole computer + TPM Security + Encryption of whole HD +............technical features.*

Nope, just like arya, this won't buzz a bell in your head. Windows Haters never see anything beyond the looks of an OS.



> As for "more features != better", this isn't completely true. The true statement is: More features does not necessarily mean better. Yes, having more features is better, but this depends on how useful the features are. The features should be useful, not just be flashy.


I agree, now plz tell this to arya who claims to be a UI designer by working on Photo shop for 2 weeks & Mac. 



> About mounting images by default, OS X is certainly more superior than Vista. It mounts .iso, .dmg, etc by default.


ISO is a standard & yes, Out of the box Windows doesn't mounts it.  But OEM Computers, just like Mac is an OEM Computer, do mount ISO & many more formats automatically.Hell, they even come with Adobe Photoshop/premiere Elements, & I hope now U won't say that iPhoto is better then Phothshop 

DMG as said by iMav is Mac specific. On Windows we have zip or cab or rar or 7zip or ace or ...... to compress a file for internet distribution. We don't need to "mount". We have a straight forward installer.



> OS X does have a cut option, it's that some idiots here cannot figure it out.


You said cut is available for files on the same drive, but not on different partitions. Right? Here is a screen shot of what I get, where is the cut option do tell me. The File is in pictures folder on Macintosh HD.

*img81.imageshack.us/img81/2459/nocutoptionql4.jpg




			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> And if anyone here is thinking that Vista is better than OS X, they're wrong. I haven't even got into the flaws of Vista yet. When I do, then this thread will be interesting.


Plz do so, this what we have been doing from day 1, clearing misconceptions.
In Mac Pro there is an option select among 4 graphics card, but hey, there are more then 12 current gen graphics card in the market, can I plug any one of it in Mac? just tell me this.

With each passing day your statements sound full of frustration & baseless.


----------



## iMav (Jun 6, 2007)

gx add the drive wala stupidity in ur list so we can have all flws at  1 place .... and also the fact that upgrades are mac specific in ur post so tht blind fools can read it and not come with absolute confidence and then embarrass themselve


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## gxsaurav (Jun 6, 2007)

Let them embarrass themselves. 

Hey nepcker, I need to mount a bin & cuesheet file as Virtual CD, what should I do? There is no Daemon tools or Nero Image drive for Mac.

Toast Titanium does not starts here.


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## aryayush (Jun 7, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> As for "more features != better", this isn't completely true. The true statement is: _More features *does not necessarily* mean better_. Yes, having more features is better, but this depends on how useful the features are. The features should be useful, not just be flashy.


That is what I said and it was quite obvious. gx_saurav has intentionally been misinterpreting it to use it as an advantage. I even explained it in that Vista example. If you add an insignificant and almost completely useless feature that complicated the user interface, that feature shouldn't have been there. It makes the OS inferior to how it was before the introduction of that feature. My short statement clearly meant that "_More features *does not necessarily* mean better_."



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> As for "more features != better", this isn't completely true. The true statement is: _More features *does not necessarily* mean better_. Yes, having more features is better, but this depends on how useful the features are. The features should be useful, not just be flashy.


That is what I said and it was quite obvious. gx_saurav has intentionally been misinterpreting it to use it as an advantage. I even explained it in that Vista example. If you add an insignificant and almost completely useless feature that complicated the user interface, that feature shouldn't have been there. It makes the OS inferior to how it was before the introduction of that feature. My short statement clearly meant that "_More features *does not necessarily* mean better_."

A perfect example is Nokia N95. For gx_saurav and most other people on this forum (who are all, of course, oriented to Windows and that sort of a mindset), that phone is better than Apple's iPhone. Why? Because it has more features. I say, to Hell with the features! An Apple iPhone will let me do more than whatever I wish to with my phone and that too in a hundred times better user interface and that would definitely be more important to any sane person.



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> And if anyone here is thinking that Vista is better than OS X, *they're wrong*. I haven't even got into the flaws of Vista yet. When I do, *then* this thread will be interesting.


I already did that. I randomly listed a bunch of flaws in Vista that has now been buried in the thread. Who cares! If you start listing Mac OS X's advantages over Vista, you'll be typing the post forever. That is why I posted those articles instead.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> That is what I said and it was quite obvious. gx_saurav has intentionally been misinterpreting it to use it as an advantage. I even explained it in that Vista example.* If you add an insignificant and almost completely useless feature that complicated the user interface, that feature shouldn't have been there. *It makes the OS inferior to how it was before the introduction of that feature. My short statement clearly meant that "More features does not necessarily mean better."


No Misinterpretation, just going by what you said.

More features != better

Just UI = Better then having more features

What is not there by default is not a feature.

You call that a flaw in Vista , *giving the user more control over how he manages his files in a computer is a bad feature. Wow, your analogy is so weird*. Only for a Mac user that feature is complex.



> *I say, to Hell with the features! An Apple iPhone will let me do more than whatever I wish to with my phone and that too in a hundred times better user interface and that would definitely be more important to any sane person.*


Judging by what is available right now, one very basic thing. iPhone won't let you chat on Yahoo Messenger, will it? Does the inbuilt browser supports flash (for Yahoo web messenger). Does the iPhone plays avi? (smart movie for Symbian)...? RM (one of most used audio format on symbian OS due to file size).

You are the first guy who is saying more features are bad thing. Now if this isn't stupid then I don't know what is . Infect this is the pinnacle of stupidity.



			
				arya said:
			
		

> I already did that*. I randomly listed a bunch of flaws in Vista that has now been buried in the thread*. Who cares! If you start listing Mac OS X's advantages over Vista, you'll be typing the post forever. That is why I posted those articles instead.


 *
Those were biased flaws which we clarified already.

*Arya plz mention them again instead of copy pasting random articles from the internet. About advantages of MacOS X, well that is what this thread is about. Aren't we mentioning Pros & Cons of Mac OS X here?

Admit it arya, *Mac OS X is a good OS, but not good enough to justify a switch from Windows Vista, it hardly provides anything good.* Now if you talk about security, well, i still have to see a Vista virus in the wild.

I just showed a screen shot in my previous post. Where is the cut option? How do I mount a bin & cue sheet file in Mac OS X as virtual CD?


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## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

hey arya rather than telling him that he will tyope a post for ever atleast type for over 10 mins with vista's flaws !! and please dont type bugs found by vishal ...

as far as more features = better ... the simple thing is the fight between vista and os x is basically omn 2 counts:

1. user interface (that is user friendliness & usability)
2. what it has to offer

for the 2nd part u have agreed that vista has more to offer than os x .... now the first part ... user friendliness is subjective to the user ... usability well mac os x lacks certain basic features such as the cut option ... which reminds me that nep is to tell me how to cut a file/folder and paste into another drive ...

nep even if u call jobs ... he wont be able to tell u coz there is nothing like cut-pasting files/folders between drives ...

and arya what about the points listed by gx everytime he lists points all u say is that he is lieing not proving the lie and u deviate the topic with senseless discussions llike more features=better?


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## aryayush (Jun 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ISO is a standard & yes, Out of the box Windows doesn't mounts it.  But OEM Computers, just like Mac is an OEM Computer, do mount ISO & many more formats automatically.Hell, they even come with Adobe Photoshop/premiere Elements, & I hope now U won't say that iPhoto is better then Phothshop


First of all, we are talking about Mac OS X and Windows here. Mac OS X comes with support for disk images out of the box and Windows doesn't. OEMs and all are out of the scope of this discussion. If you bring in the PCs from Sony, HP, etc. into the discussion, please do include all the great trailware/bloatware utilities you get with them free of cost.
Second, no PC in the world from any manufacturer whatsoever comes with Adobe Photoshop out of the box. There is no OEM/discounted version of Photoshop for hardware vendors and the original CS3 suite costs in excess of Rs. 1 lac. Like I (and Eddie) have always been saying, you are one of the biggest liars in the world.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> please dont type bugs found by vishal ...


LOL! You guys have been shivering in your pants fearing that I will start naming those flaws. Fact is, I don't even visit that thread and read the flaws in Vista. I don't have any intent to use something someone is posting for the public good as a point for my own benefit here. If I start naming those bugs here, you will start saying that they aren't bugs and you will create controversies over it which will end up in that (useful) thread losing its value. Vishal might even be discouraged by seeing all the negative response. So I left that thread alone. And as I can clearly see, so has nepcker.

Imagine the reverse case scenario, a thread about the bugs in Mac OS X or someone seeking help with a kernel panic. You guys would have jumped down that person's throat criticising Mac OS X at every possible opportunity. I started one thread for Mac users and you could not even leave that one thread alone. This thread was supposed to be about a comparison of the two OSes with the pros and cons of each one. Look at what you have turned it into. Only recently you said this:
"If you select multiple folders in Finder & right click to "Get Info", you are left with 6 panes with individual info & not a combined info together like Windows, which shows the total folder size or number of files etc."

Ha! Ha! You are an idiot. You have been using the OS for a few months and you still post statements as lame as this one.

There is one flaw in Mac OS X, it does not have a keyboard shortcut for the Cut command. You have mentioned it twice in every single post and in the signature. That is a severe flaw and the fact that Vista does not read disk images out of the box isn't. WOW! You are so objective and unbiased, aren't you! 

You guys have absolutely no shame. This statement by iMav is at the zenith of shamelessness. Don't think that everyone is like you.

And this is a promise now, if I even open this thread again, I'll leave this forum. Goodbye!


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## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

its not shivering in pants dude just telling u that those minor bugs which are not considered as flaws coz im sure u or nep wud have posted them here


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## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> First of all, we are talking about Mac OS X and Windows here. Mac OS X comes with support for disk images out of the box and Windows doesn't. *OEMs and all are out of the scope of this discussion.* If you bring in the PCs from Sony, HP, etc. into the discussion, *please do include all the great trailware/bloatware utilities you get with them free of cost.*


Ok fine, for one second I assume that a feature should be there in the OS itself & not as some OEM addon, well in that case MacOS X is very much behind Windows as it comes without a Photo management application, Movie editing application, DVD Making software. All *these are provided by iLife which is not a part of OS but a separate application bundle.
*
Either consider only Mac OS X or compare MacOS X running on a Mac with Windows Vista running on Alienware or dell.

About bloatware, well...ya that is a problem which can be removed easily & *it reduces the cost* & *sometimes it is benefitial to the user cos he gets to know about those software which might be something he likes*. Does including trial version a bad thing? *The user is given the application to try, which if he likes he can buy & if he doesn't he can remove.*



> Second, no PC in the world from any manufacturer whatsoever comes with Adobe Photoshop out of the box.


Nope you are the biggest ignorant person in the world. You got some problem in reading I guess, I m quoting what I said.



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Hell, they even come with *Adobe Photoshop/premiere Elements*, & I hope now U won't say that iPhoto is better then Phothshop


Now, go to adobe.com, find out about OEM Discount & find out about whether these are full fledged version costing one lakh or normal consumer grade version of the applications.



> If I start naming those bugs here, you will start saying that they aren't bugs and you will create controversies over it which will end up in that (useful) thread losing its value. Vishal might even be discouraged by seeing all the negative response. So I left that thread alone. And as I can clearly see, so has nepcker.


Vista is buggy yes, when did we not admit it. It is you who doesn't admits that Mac OS X is buggy & flawed. That is what shows your ignorance.



> Imagine the reverse case scenario, a thread about the bugs in Mac OS X or someone seeking help with a kernel panic. You guys would have jumped down that person's throat criticising Mac OS X at every possible opportunity.


*Ilugd had some problem with his Mac Pro & Pro Tools from AVID, which Mac boy helped him there? None.* Do you know how to configure a firewire port for better stability boy?



> "If you select multiple folders in Finder & right click to "Get Info", you are left with 6 panes with individual info & not a combined info together like Windows, which shows the total folder size or number of files etc."
> Ha! Ha! You are an idiot. You have been using the OS for  few months and you still post statements as lame as this one.


Yup, let me post the screen shot. And hey, cut option, there...old screen shot, where is it?



			
				arya said:
			
		

> And this is a promise now, if I even open this thread again, I'll leave this forum. Goodbye!


Nooooooooooooooooooooooo, the only fun in digit forum is gone.
*
You started this thread now due to getting pwned & since we showed in public that Mac OS X is not perfect as it was portrayed by you, you are chinking out.
* 
Do post the flaws of Vista running on an OEM computer, cos Mac OS X is also an OEM OS running on OEM hardware by Apple.

Vista comes without Optical Disk Mounting feature. MacOS X only mounts ISO out of the box automatically (DMG doesn't count as it is Mac specific). 

Vista running on a Dell comes with Nero or Roxio which both support Virtual Optical Disk management & mounts ISO, NRG, CUE, BIN DAO etc. Mac OS X running on a Apple iMac OEM (Example) doesn't mount any CD format other then ISO.

Fellow members, you decide which OS running on an OEM computer has an edge here.

Seriously arya, learn something from goobi. He is also a macboy & sometimes smug, but he is not ignorent or a sales man for Apple product like you are. Is it written somewhere in Apple Eula that once you buy a Mac, it is your job to advertise it all over the net or in your personal life & convince others to buy Apple product. I mean, most Mac boys are marketing agents for Apple products.


----------



## arcticflare (Jun 7, 2007)

The self proclaimed mac genius feels that the guys who own macs belong to an extraordinary league whereas the Windows users are mediocre.If a mac is really miles ahead of windows as u proclaim then why is it that windows is the most widely used OS and not mac OS.


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## shantanu (Jun 7, 2007)

arcticflare said:
			
		

> The self proclaimed mac genius feels that the guys who own macs belong to an extraordinary league whereas the Windows users are mediocre.If a mac is really miles ahead of windows as u proclaim then why is it that windows is the most widely used OS and not mac OS.


 
100% right said my friend.. but who can tell this to arya.. he behaves like a CAT (Khisiyani Billi Khamba Noche)  

when i told him sometime that more then 85% people in the world use windows, he said :



> * hey dude, only 10% people in the whole world use computers, how can this be possible that 85% uses Windows..*


 
i think anyone can tell that we all only talk about computer users, and only computer users use an OS.. so this shows the level of IQ and common sense he has..


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## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

relax ... mac boys have been totally pwned ... with nothing to say to the flaws pointed out ... i remmbr arya posting every whr saying tht we installed macs and thought we wud find flaws with so much arrogance and belief in the crap os x and now tht flaws have been posted he is commenting on others' english ...

hey nep u still havnt told me how cut-paste files/folders between drives


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## eggman (Jun 7, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> when i told him sometime that more then 85% people in the world use windows, he said :
> 
> 
> 
> > *[hey dude, only 10% people in the whole world use computers, how can this be possible that 85% uses Windows..*



Ha ha ha..................thats the best joke(unintentional) i've heard in the whole year


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## blackleopard92 (Jun 7, 2007)

i think he is banking on our intelligence... out of 10% computer users, 85% use windows should be the correct statement.
that means 8.5% people use windows


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## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

arre who cares how many use windows the fact is that mac lacks basic features and they still say that it is better


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## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

(Nutcase) Macboys : Walking definition of arrogance & ignorance.

Arya is behaving just like his mentor, who when had nothing to say, used to deviate the thread towards UNIX back end etc.


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## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

birds of the same feather flock together


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## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

Lolz....


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## nepcker (Jun 7, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> See Mac Ad, about "Virus". Mac says "We do not get virus at all"



My god. You get the name of the spot wrong. You make up a nonexistent quote. Then you can't even use proper English.



> I am not talking about the battery recall worldwide. I am talking about the various news we can read on engadget or ars or neowin.



And what does that even have to do with Mac laptops being too thin? Do you have ADHD?



> Why is expose better? Small thumbnail? I just replied to your statement that FlipTab is Expose clone. Well, I am asking all members here to read the post & reply here whether they think that a feature available in Windows since 2002 (with powertoy) is a clone of a Expose which came in 2004 or not.



Expose is better because it uses larger, live updating thumnails that can be all open windows or only those of the current application and invoking it doesn't automatically switch context. Further, Expose shows you where those thumbails come from as it creates the thumbnails. And you need something extra in order to get that feature?



> Fellow members, did anyone else had the problem to play the video? If not then nepcker, you don't know how to use Windows or how to install codec.



Yeah, I guess it's too bad you didn't use Quicktime or a standard like MPEG4 where it actually works.



> Shell I with the help of any developer prove why dll = dynamic link library is better then bin = binary file.


A dll is a binary format file, and it does contain portions of executable binary code. On the OS X side, at least you should be comparing dll's to shared libraries (which, like dll's consist of code and resources shared by multiple applications).

I'm no hard core developer, but at least be consistent and compare oranges to oranges, not generic fruit to vegetables, or whereever you were going with that statement. A bin=binary file could be referring to an image/sound theme for a game - it does not inherently imply anything about an OS or a computing platform.

A dll is certainly analogous to a shared library, but binary ain't got nothing to do with it. 

*Now the turn of Vista's faults:*
*Colors are not consistent.* Mac OS X is the only operating system in the world that follows International Color Consortium (ICC)'s standards fully, so, with Tiger, the color you capture is the same color you see on the screen and in your final printed materials. No waste. No surprises. No disappointments. No other platform is better suited for color pros.

*UAC:* The most annoying-and-useless feature. Mac OS X also has some form of a UAC, which only comes when you're making significant changes to the system (read: when some programs try to access the Library folder). Vista, on the other hand, annoys you constantly, and impedes users in their day to day use of it.

I'll be adding more in the coming days. (Don't want to post all at once)


----------



## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

u did not tell me how to cut files/folders between drives

colore are not consistent ... hmmm do u know there is something color profiles .. i guess  u dont ... search for it 

UAC ... its not an issue ... if u know how to use windows ... u dont need uac it can disbled and not an issue unlike the mac version where u always need to enter a password .. .now i would prefer clicking go ahead in uac rather than typing my password everytime 

anything else


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## nepcker (Jun 7, 2007)

What does cut-and-paste do? It physically removes the file(s) you've chosen from where it is and puts it where you want it to be. And what does command+drag do? The same thing. Isn't that like a Cut option?

No, colour profiles won't give me as accurate colours as ColorSync of OS X gives me.

As for UAC, you only need to enter the password for installation of some *extremely limited* applications, who try to access the Library folder.
If OS X will allow the access, then it won't be as secure as it is now.

Security experts have already found out ways to bypass Vista's UAC. This means that only the genuine apps will ask for your permission. Vista is still not as secure as Mac OS X.


----------



## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

hey dumb a$$ who installs the application?

i told u before command+drag is what cut-paste is used to avoid  i told u and u calld me an idiot saying i cant figure out how to cut files ... well smart a$$ i couldnt figure out how to cut files coz the option isnt there ... cut-paste only mouse ... 1 hand ... drag-drop ... both hands, keyboard+mouse ... *

next time make sure how smart u are before u call ppl idiots ... being like something isnt being the thing
*


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> My god. You get the name of the spot wrong. You make up a nonexistent quote. Then you can't even use proper English.



No sorry, when i write in a forum what matters for me is to convey my message, not literature.



> And what does that even have to do with Mac laptops being too thin? Do you have ADHD?



This has to do with the overheating problem with Mac, now do i have to clarify everything. I am sure now that you are so immature in understanding something



> Expose is better because it uses larger, *live updating thumnails* that can be all open windows or only those of the current application and invoking it *doesn't automatically switch context.*



FlipTab has been doing this for quite some time already. Those thumbnails in fliptab are also Live. Same goes with the context switch.



> Further, Expose shows you where those thumbails come from as it creates the thumbnails. And you need something extra in order to get that feature?



Plz clarify this to me



> Yeah, I guess it's too bad you didn't use Quicktime or a standard like MPEG4 where it actually works.



MPEG4 = Standard,  You must be joking right, no seriously r u high today. 

A standard is something which i widely used & accepted by majority of people. IN this context the standard in videos out there is avi or DivX



> A dll is a binary format file, and it does contain portions of executable binary code. On the OS X side, at least you should be comparing dll's to shared libraries (which, like dll's consist of code and resources shared by multiple applications).



I just said it, sorry I don't know about how dll or bin works. Developers in this forum can make it clear.

*Now the turn of Vista's faults:*


> *Colors are not consistent.* Mac OS X is the only operating system in the world that follows International Color Consortium (ICC)'s standards fully, so, with Tiger, the color you capture is the same color you see on the screen and in your final printed materials. No waste. No surprises. No disappointments. No other platform is better suited for color pros.



No, you are saying this keeping Windows XP in Mind, & not Windows Vista. Plz boot into Windows Vista, & try applying colour profile using colour management in control Panel. Plz do so, I am also working here in Photoshop & 3ds max & even I am using consistent colours all over.



> *UAC:* The most annoying-and-useless feature. Mac OS X also has some form of a UAC, which only comes when you're making significant changes to the system (read: when some programs try to access the Library folder). Vista, on the other hand, annoys you constantly, and impedes users in their day to day use of it.



UAC is a good feature, but not correctly implemented. Yes, we do need a "Remember my settings" button. . *Mac OS X asked me for password even when I tried to change an Icon using Candybar. *Hey let me know if I can disable this Password thing in Mac.



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> I'll be adding more in the coming days. (Don't want to post all at once)



So, now you are gonna dual boot trying to pawn US ., hey nepcker, this isn't about Windows flaws, yes we know it has flaws & we admit it. *However do you admit that there are flaws in Mac OS X?

*


> No, colour profiles won't give me as accurate colours as ColorSync of OS X gives me.



Plz try it, it will be an eye opener for u


----------



## iMav (Jun 7, 2007)

taklkin abt uac ... 

in vista:

im the only user
im the admin
i can disable uac
i can install any app w/o being warned
also i can uninstall any app from a control panel

in os x :

im the only user
im the admin
i want to install something
i have to give my password everytime
i want to install an app
i hav to load the dmg again
i cant un-install the app until the program developer gives an option

* hence we can derive iMav's first law of user friendly OS:*

the user having the ability to install an application without being asked for password or being warned that *he* is installing something is a user friendly OS

* iMav's second law of user friendly OS:*

the ability to transfer files/folders from 1 drive to another using 1 input device & able to drag-drop to the desired location & also having the option of canceling the move or ability to change the move to a copy makes a user friendly OS


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 7, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> i cant un-install the app until the program developer gives an option


You can drag & drop some application to trash while others which come as installers will need to be uninstalled using a commercial third party application because *MacOS X comes without an Unified uninstaller*


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 7, 2007)

i don't know about others but i fell in love with  os x  i just removed windows and now os x is my primary operating system 
it is fast, it looks good, and adium is a great piece of software its auto reply function really impressed me 

And i think there is noting wrong if os x or any os  ask for password when installer try to access system file or try to install any thing in system directory. Just imagine what would happen if any body send u a bat file with del * or shell script with  rm -r / and u click on it! 
it will damage ur system.


----------



## iMav (Jun 8, 2007)

auto response big deal .... there are a lot msn mess appz tht allow u do tht .... hey desi read in what context a statement is said .... then comment


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## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

Desi-Tek.com said:
			
		

> i don't know about others but i fell in love with  os x  i just removed windows and now os x is my primary operating system
> it is fast, it looks good, and adium is a great piece of software its auto reply function really impressed me
> 
> And i think there is noting wrong if os x or any os  ask for password when installer try to access system file or try to install any thing in system directory. Just imagine what would happen if any body send u a bat file with del * or shell script with  rm -r / and u click on it!
> it will damage ur system.



Glad you could find OS X usefull, now since that is your primary OS consider buying a Mac Mini at best.

Asking for password is not bad, we just made it clear that just like OS X asking for Password is same as UAC for Vista. Both are annoying


----------



## praka123 (Jun 8, 2007)

but most linux/unix distros asks the passwd once for the whole session that it is running.though it is subjective if ur using cli.


----------



## iMav (Jun 8, 2007)

for thew hole session?? didnt get ur point? ... in mac like uac u r always asked to enter the admin password whcih is annoying


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

Prakash, what is Linux doing in this thread


----------



## goobimama (Jun 8, 2007)

> Mac OS X asked me for password even when I tried to change an Icon using Candybar.


Don't spread your ignorance to those who are not familiar with the Mac OS. To change an icon, all you need to do is (Command + i) and then paste the icon. No password needed. Its a different matter if you tried to change the icon of Finder or the trash which are deep in the root of the OS. 

Secondly, isn't divx = mpeg4?

Thirdly, the OS doesn't come with a unified uninstaller, cause it doesn't need one. There's no dll mess here.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Don't spread your ignorance to those who are not familiar with the Mac OS. To change an icon, all you need to do is (Command + i) and then paste the icon. No password needed*. Its a different matter if you tried to change the icon of Finder or the trash which are deep in the root of the OS.*



If changing password means making changes to the system then *Mac OS X's customisation feature are really bad, worse of all I would say.* It is a simple thing, Windows or Linux doesn't gives us UAC or Password if we change the theme or change an Icon cos it does not justifies asking for password.



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> Thirdly, the OS doesn't come with a unified uninstaller, cause it doesn't need one. There's no dll mess here.



I guess you need to look a few pages back when I posted that I m having trouble uninstalling & reinstalling iPhoto. Nepcker said

"Delete it from trash, then go to library folder -> delete following files from there, then again delete something from some other folder"

I installed DivX 6.6 Codec, you call that system changing. Ok fine, what about OnyX? It is much like Tune Up utilities, still it asked for password during installation. Seems like any application can hook to the Mac OS X system by just asking the password.


----------



## goobimama (Jun 8, 2007)

The Macs UI customization features are really bad. Agreed. There's only one software to change the theme, Shapeshifter and every time one runs a system maintenance script, it changes the theme back to Aqua. But like I said, as for changing *icons* the only one's that will ask for  a password are the Finder and trash. The rest are a bit too easy to change.
Tell me, how do i change the icon of my partition e

Well all software installations that alter the source ask for a password. [And we wonder why there aren't any viruses for the mac]

As for uninstallers, okay, I agree that there should be an uninstaller. But till now I've not felt the need for an uninstaller. I prefer to "wow" my friends by just dragging the app to the trash. "That's it!?!" comes the reply. And it works for me. [you could always use Appzapper but that's third party and would need a password ]

What's with you an the OS asking for a password? You don't install software every day do you? It's just during installation that the OS asks you for a password. Otherwise, to run most tasks, I've never really needed to enter a password. But with Vista....there's UAC all over the place.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> But like I said, as for changing *icons* the only one's that will ask for  a password are the Finder and trash. The rest are a bit too easy to change. *Tell me, how do i change the icon of my partition*



In Windows Vista we can change icons using 2 methods

1) Right click - Properties -> Customisation Tab-> Change Icon

2) 3rd party applications like TuneUp utilities or Icon packager

On a Mac, well...candybar is the only thing I guess which is paid. I tried to to this

Right click on a folder-> get info -> Drag an .icns file to the "Preview" section. But insted of making that the icon it copied the icns file to that folder 

To change the icon for partition, right click on the drive in Windows Vista, properties -> customisation-> change icon & select any icon.



> Well all software installations that alter the source ask for a password. [And we wonder why there aren't any viruses for the mac]



Same goes with vista, all software installation which alter the system ask for permission via UAC 



> I prefer to "wow" my friends by just dragging the app to the trash. "That's it!?!" comes the reply. And it works for me.



Which leaves files in shared folders. An installer made using Windows installer only leaves your preference & settings to the application which are saved in c:\users\<username>\AppData\. Everything else is removed when u uninstall an application. You decide which one is better.



> But with Vista....there's UAC all over the place.



Yup, we do admit that UAC needs a "Remember my settings" option.


----------



## nepcker (Jun 8, 2007)

Time to pwn gx_saurav again 

Here goes about the "flaws" of the Mac:
*1) Mac has no cut option *
The *Finder* has no cut option.

*2) No DirectX means not enough games *
Yeah, OS X doesn't include a proprietary Microsoft technology. The game situation is a bit more complicated than this simplistic explanation.

*3) No ReadyDrive feature* 
As these drives become more prevalent, I have no doubt OS X will support them.

*4) No Exchange server (Without MS products)* 
You need Microsoft products for a Microsoft proprietary technology? Shocking.

*5) Lack of 3rd party applications* 
There are plenty of third party applications, hardly a lack. There are fewer than Windows, but I'm not missing the 300 versions of Barbie's Dreamhouse.

*6) No ability to show the content on a secondary smaller screen, a.k.a Nvidia Preface/ Windows SideShow *
Interesting, but without adjoining hardware, it's irrelevant.

*7) Can't use USB Flash drives as temporary RAM *
Band aid way to deal with a lack of RAM, but it would still be nice to see.

*8 ) Doesn't provide a compelling file management systems.* 
You'll have to explain this one.

*9) Doesn't comes with a proper Photo Management application* 
Most people find iPhoto wonderful and even "proper".
*
10) Far more expensive then what they should be charged with. Even people of USA & Europe admit it. *
This isn't universally true. The Mac Pro is actually priced competitively and the others aren't that much more expensive.

*11) No Media Center Capability/ Pathetic TV tuner support. There is only one EyeTV which works with there own TV Tuner card.* 
There's more than one EyeTV offering and other companies that offer their own products.

*12) Lack of 3rd party hardware support, only Apple supplied & some of the Apple certified products work. Try plugging an Hauppage TV Tuner card in Mac or XFX 8600GT PCIe *
This is hardly as you portray. There is plenty of third party hardware supported by Macs.

*13) Can't be upgraded like PCs* 
Particularly recently, upgrading is a sucker's game.

*14) Mac pro is the only "Desktop" which starts at $2400 & cannot be upgraded. You cannot buy after market Core 2 Duo & replace the existing CPU in it.* 
Yes, it can.

*15) Mac mini is no value for money. It is only small. 35K for a CPU without any graphics card? You call that viable? * 
Many people find the form factor and functionality quite favorable. You don't.

*16) Dock doesn't groups similar application windows.* 
Except that a particular application's windows are accessible through its dock icon's menu.

*17) If a program is not native, it runs slow.* 
It runs slower than native, but the performance is quite good. Besides, Windows can't run non-native programs.
*
18 ) If you are using some USB Drive, you must eject it else the files in it might get curropt even though they are not in use. You must eject it, unlike Windows where when the write operation is complete, you can pull it out easily.* 
Actually sparky, Windows has a "safe removal" option that's meant to protect against write actions taking place while the drive is being removed, just like eject. If OS X isn't writing to the USB drive, it's not going to corrupt it either.

*19) You cannot resize a Window from any side, just the south east side.* 
I personally find edge resizing awkward, but sure.

*20) If you select multiple folders in Finder & right click to "Get Info", you are left with 6 panes with individual info & not a combined info together like Windows, which shows the total folder size or number of files etc. *
Actually, Mac OS X can do both.

*21) There is no backup restore option. There is no system restore option either.* 
Wait a few months.

Disk Utility has always had the ability to backup/clone and restore (hence the "restore" tab section).

And, I'd also point out the inferiority of most mass-market Windows boxes, which do *not* ship with full system restore discs. They typically come with a restore partition, from which discs may be made, but it is up to the owner to provide the media, and take the time to make the restore set - hopefully before the system goes kablooey! Personally, I detest the restore partition "feature" of windows machines. 


*22) More which I don't have time here to write.* 
You could have fooled me that you don't have time. You repeated earlier points like a broken record.


----------



## blackleopard92 (Jun 8, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> *17) If a program is not native, it runs slow.*
> It runs slower than native, but the performance is quite good. Besides, Windows can't run non-native programs.


* 
didn't understand this one. can someone care to explain???*


----------



## goobimama (Jun 8, 2007)

As for backing up stuff, Automator is more than capable of doing all of this and more. Plus, with Disk Utility, one can take a full disk backup as well as restore.

#20: Is this guy for real? Doesn't know how to use the OS but likes to rant its shortcomings? Command+Option+I shows you a combined information pane which even changes automatically on selecting new file(s)


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

> Here goes about the "flaws" of the Mac:
> *1) Mac has no cut option *
> The *Finder* has no cut option.



And what is finder? The File manager for Mac OS X, now I hope you don't say to me that Cut option is not necessary in a File browser & maanger



> *2) No DirectX means not enough games *
> Yeah, OS X doesn't include a proprietary Microsoft technology. The game situation is a bit more complicated than this simplistic explanation.



OpenGL is there, do we see all openGL games porting to Mac OS X?



> *3) No ReadyDrive feature*
> As these drives become more prevalent, I have no doubt OS X will support them.



Obviously it will after copying from MS.



> *4) No Exchange server (Without MS products)*
> You need Microsoft products for a Microsoft proprietary technology? Shocking.



Not quite, what about Lotus Notes?



> *5) Lack of 3rd party applications*
> There are plenty of third party applications, hardly a lack. There are fewer than Windows, but I'm not missing the 300 versions of Barbie's Dreamhouse.



You still have to find me a proper WMA Player nepcker.



> *6) No ability to show the content on a secondary smaller screen, a.k.a Nvidia Preface/ Windows SideShow *
> Interesting, but without adjoining hardware, it's irrelevant.



Lolz...ya right.

Macboy Philosophy : If a features is not there in Mac OS X, it is not worth using or irrelevant.



> *7) Can't use USB Flash drives as temporary RAM *
> Band aid way to deal with a lack of RAM, but it would still be nice to see.



Again, after copying from Windows Vista



> *8 ) Doesn't provide a compelling file management systems.*
> You'll have to explain this one.



Now, do I have to prove why Windows Explorer is far better then Finder? Well, just look at the eye openers I showed to arya. Might open your eyes too. These are just the starters.



> *9) Doesn't comes with a proper Photo Management application*
> Most people find iPhoto wonderful and even "proper".



iPhoto is not bundled with Mac OS X but with Mac (hardware). In that case Adobe Photoshop Album is also bundled with Dell or HP computers which kicks iPhoto.


> * 10) Far more expensive then what they should be charged with. Even people of USA & Europe admit it. *
> * This isn't universally true*. The Mac Pro is actually priced competitively and the others aren't that much more expensive.



Umm,  how many graphics cards, sound cards does Mac Pro support nepcker?


> *11) No Media Center Capability/ Pathetic TV tuner support. There is only one EyeTV which works with there own TV Tuner card.*
> There's more than one EyeTV offering and other companies that offer their own products.



Show me, do show me aN equivalent to Media center in Mac OS X with full TV/CableTV/Cable Card/ DVR/ functionality



> *12) Lack of 3rd party hardware support, only Apple supplied & some of the Apple certified products work. Try plugging an Hauppage TV Tuner card in Mac or XFX 8600GT PCIe *
> This is hardly as you portray. There is plenty of third party hardware supported by Macs.



I never said "No", I said "Lack". It is available, even Microsoft hardware is supported but you just can't go to market, buy a hardware & expect it to work in Mac. Can you? Just tell me this about a Hauppage TV Tuner card



> *13) Can't be upgraded like PCs*
> Particularly recently, upgrading is a sucker's game.



So, upgrading RAM is called upgrading? Gr8, what about harddisk, DVD Writer, Graphics Card, X-Fi Audio cards?



> *14) Mac pro is the only "Desktop" which starts at $2400 & cannot be upgraded. You cannot buy after market Core 2 Duo & replace the existing CPU in it.*
> Yes, it can.



*Lolz...no it can't Mac Pro comes with XEON which uses a different socket compared to Core 2 Duo & Xeons cost a lot, how stupid can u get . Try inserting a C2D in Xeon Socket*



> *15) Mac mini is no value for money. It is only small. 35K for a CPU without any graphics card? You call that viable? *
> Many people find the form factor and functionality quite favorable. You don't.



Lets see, Apple TV comes with a GeForce 7300 Go while Mac Mini comes with GMA 950. Yup, very much value for money it seems 



> *16) Dock doesn't groups similar application windows.*
> Except that a particular application's windows are accessible through its dock icon's menu.



However it still doesn't shows how many Windows that application has. It is  somewhat similar to taskbar grouping but still not close.



> *17) If a program is not native, it runs slow.*
> * It runs slower than native, but the performance is quite good. *Besides, Windows can't run non-native programs.



I meant native to Mac OS X, so if a program runs slower then native isn't that slow? Isn't that I was saying or do u have some problem in reading.

About Windows not running non-native application. Lolz...All Win32 applications are native to Windows starting from DOS to today.


> * 18 ) If you are using some USB Drive, you must eject it else the files in it might get curropt even though they are not in use. You must eject it, unlike Windows where when the write operation is complete, you can pull it out easily.*
> Actually sparky, Windows has a "safe removal" option that's meant to protect against write actions taking place while the drive is being removed, just like eject. If OS X isn't writing to the USB drive, it's not going to corrupt it either.



Nope it corrupted my pen drive which I then had to format in Windows.



> *19) You cannot resize a Window from any side, just the south east side.*
> I personally find edge resizing awkward, but sure.



After copying from Windows after 10 years.


> *20) If you select multiple folders in Finder & right click to "Get Info", you are left with 6 panes with individual info & not a combined info together like Windows, which shows the total folder size or number of files etc. *
> Actually, Mac OS X can do both.



I just checked this, using goobi's method, but it doesn't work if I right click & select to get info. But atlast it is there. Point noted & flaw removed



> *21) There is no backup restore option. There is no system restore option either.*
> Wait a few months.



After copying from Win....blah blah blah
*www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html 


> Disk Utility has always had the ability to backup/clone and restore (hence the "restore" tab section).



Umm...System restore is there since 1999 in Windows ME. so Mac is lacking in feature & is behind. Tell me, how does it backs up? as a disk image or just files.



> And, I'd also point out the inferiority of most mass-market Windows boxes, which do *not* ship with full system restore discs. They typically come with a restore partition, from which discs may be made, but it is up to the owner to provide the media, and take the time to make the restore set - hopefully before the system goes kablooey! Personally, I detest the restore partition "feature" of windows machines.



Ever tried asking for a OEM DVD from the OEM manufacturer?


*



			22) More which I don't have time here to write.
		
Click to expand...

*


> You could have fooled me that you don't have time. You repeated earlier points like a broken record.



From what I see, you are frustrated.


----------



## aerove (Jun 8, 2007)

check out *aerove.blogspot.com* for more details on macs


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## iMav (Jun 8, 2007)

^^ stay on this site and will tell u stuff about mac that even u dont kno  ... dont promote ur blog or site in this section we have another thread for tht

and nep those are absolutely stupid points that u have brought ... honestly im not being irrational but seriously what u typed under the pretext of pwning gx uv pwnd urself by ur very first statement where u show ur naivety by stating tht finder has no cut option are u implying tht mac ha a cut and finder ... finder is separate and mac is saeparate wht kinda dumb statement is thrt ... and seriously none of ur statements show any strengths of pwning anybody ... i am sure evn veteran mac boys will find ur statements naive


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## gxsaurav (Jun 8, 2007)

Like I said before, let them be embarrassed.

Nepcker said he is pwing me, well....he himself agree "Things will come later, lets wait for a few months". Self pwnage


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 8, 2007)

@gx_saurav u can run lotus notes on mac too  it is developed in java. other option is send mail and procmail

*www-142.ibm.com/software/sw-lotus/art/macind.jpg

btw system restore will be available in leopard 
*www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html


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## shantanu (Jun 9, 2007)

desitek.com said:
			
		

> btw system restore will be available in leopard
> *www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html



yeah Apple Copying Windows right !


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 9, 2007)

@shantanu copying in what sense? bill gates and job r good friends so they r just sharing 
other wise apple may have sued microsoft for copying  some feature from os x


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## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

Desi-Tek.com said:
			
		

> other wise apple may have sued microsoft for copying  some feature from os x


 any proof? ... i hvnt seen anything common between os x& windows


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## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> any proof? ... i hvnt seen anything common between os x& windows



According to Macboys : Microsoft copied everything from Mac. Don't you see, Windows has a close button, a minimize button, an "Ok" button, a folder for keeping deleted things which is similar to Mac trash. They even have alt+tab copied from Mac. Hell, the keyboard used in PC is again copied from Mac cos they both start with QWERTY.

 Talk about ignorance & arrogance.


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 9, 2007)

@iMav well according to apple microsoft copied some of the feature from os x 
*youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8


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## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

dont giv me youtube links .... it takes too much time to load .... hav u found anything same or copied if yes post tht .... else ont say what others say ...


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 9, 2007)

@iMav that video is from Apple WWDC 2006 in which they have shown why there r some similarity between vista and os x. and why still vista is not as good as os x


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## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

if u have something to post by your experience post that i told u dont post what some 1 else has said ... everything posted in this thread by me or gx is based on our experience with the os x not what some tech conference or tech site has said ... i might sound rude, thats not my intention but the point is so


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## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

> @iMav that video is from Apple WWDC 2006 in which they have shown why there r some similarity between vista and os x. and why still vista is not as good as os x



That was an Apple event sponsored by Apple. Do you expect them to praise Vista, its simple logic that a company will never talk about the excellence of it's rival.

What sounds funny is that last year they mocked Vista for being late, well...they are themselves late now to release Leopard which provides nothing new to the table. A New UI, well...vista already gave aero & from what I see all over they are just working on Core Animation which is there version of WPF Copied.


----------



## nepcker (Jun 9, 2007)

Ah, the joys of arguing with the uninformed (or, worse, the purposely misinformed) 



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And what is finder? The File manager for Mac OS X, now I hope you don't say to me that Cut option is not necessary in a File browser & maanger


 Command + x is the cut option for OS X. When people usually say "cut-and-paste", they're talking about text, and yes, OS X supports it. For files within the volume, you can just drag and drop.

And you also *can* move files from one drive to another without any complicated steps. 

So, it's the finder lacks a cut option, not Mac OS X itself (Note than Mac OS X isn't just Finder).



> OpenGL is there, do we see all openGL games porting to Mac OS X?


 Because, obviously, the OpenGL graphics code is only a part of what a program needs to run. OS X native code needs to be there, too. I hope, with Cider, we'll see more ports of games. However, while it's not a clean workaround, you can use Boot Camp if you have to until this gap narrows. I think it'll get better, but the Mac's overall low market share might be more of a factor.



> Not quite, what about Lotus Notes?


 Haven't used Notes, but Mail can connect to Exchange.



> You still have to find me a proper WMA Player.


 Try Flip4Mac. Or Windows Media Player. They should play WMA files.



> Lolz...ya right.
> 
> Macboy Philosophy : If a features is not there in Mac OS X, it is not worth using or irrelevant.


 Well, the MacBooks and the MacBook Pros don't have a secondary smaller display, so even if OS X has this feature, it will be irrelevant. This feature will be there in OS X once Mac laptops have secondary smaller displays.



> Show me, do show me aN equivalent to Media center in Mac OS X with full TV/CableTV/Cable Card/ DVR/ functionality


 There aren't, but there are options to get around it via 3rd party. Try Tivo and Tivo-to-go (or TivoDecoder).



> I never said "No", I said "Lack". It is available, even Microsoft hardware is supported but you just can't go to market, buy a hardware & expect it to work in Mac. Can you? Just tell me this about a Hauppage TV Tuner card


 Is that an OS X issue or Hauppage's issue. If Hauppage wants their stuff to work on OS X, shouldn't they write the drivers for it?



> *Lolz...no it can't Mac Pro comes with XEON which uses a different socket compared to Core 2 Duo & Xeons cost a lot, how stupid can u get . Try inserting a C2D in Xeon Socket*


The Mac Pro features two LGA-771 sockets, so yes, the Mac Pro supports Core 2 Duo processors.



> After copying from Win....blah blah blah


I must have missed something. Time Machine lets me go back and recover a version of a Word document I created 2 months ago and made changes to every day, and be able to go back two weeks and get that week's version. It's not just a system restore like in Windows. Can you show me a link to this built into Windows?



> Ever tried asking for a OEM DVD from the OEM manufacturer?


 Oddly, a friend of mine paid extra for a set from Dell and never got it, no matter how many times he bugged them. 



> No sorry, when i write in a forum what matters for me is to convey my message, not literature.


 If you cannot write in a grammatically correct manner, then inherently the "message" of your post will be unintelligible, or at best, imprecise. That's the whole point of writing (and speaking) in a technically correct manner -- to express yourself with precision and clear meaning.

To paraphrase Gary Larson, you (and some other Windows fanboys here) come off sounding like:

"blah blah blah windows good blah blah blah blah apple bad blah blah blah..."


----------



## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

nep about the cut option id say u cut-it-out coz even arya accepted it and please ur statements absolute bull$hit man .... ur typing statements worse than my 10 yr brother or are u r also 10


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

> Command + x is the cut option for OS X. When people usually say "cut-and-paste", they're talking about text, and yes, OS X supports it. For files within the volume, you can just drag and drop.
> 
> So, it's the finder lacks a cut option, not Mac OS X itself (Note than Mac OS X isn't just Finder).


Again, if I go by this analogy then Windows Explorer is far better then finder. Not only finder is slow but it doesn't let me work the way I want. Windows Explorer supports Cut as well as drag & drop, what will u cal better.
*
About your 2nd statement, isn't finder the default file manager for Mac OS X? so shouldn't this be a flaw of the OS itself.* Suppose Windows Explorer disables the ability to show preview of files & videos, will you say it is a flaw of Windows Explorer or Will u say it is a flaw of Windows Vista. ? First think about what you are saying dude 


> Because, obviously, the OpenGL graphics code is only a part of what a program needs to run. OS X native code needs to be there, too.


The benifit of OpenGL is that it is cross platform. This means just make one code, one gaming engine & simply compile it according to the OS. Making it native to a paltform is not required. So accordign to you it is a flaw of Mac OS X that it can't run a cross platform gaming enigne :d



> I hope, with Cider, we'll see more ports of games. However, while it's not a clean workaround, you can use Boot Camp if you have to until this gap narrows. I think it'll get better, but the Mac's overall low market share might be more of a factor.


Lolz...who are you trying to pwn here, yourself? Again saying "Buy a Mac cos you can game on it by installing Windows"  what kind of statement is that. Why do u need a Mac, if you plan to install Windows on it to play games. Mac OS X sux for gaming & even you are saying this, Windows is far better.



> Try Flip4Mac. Or Windows Media Player. They should play WMA files.


Try reading 10 pages behind this thread & you will come to know that they play fine in Quicktime with Flip4Mac but not in iTunes or any other compatible media player I was able to find, & that is the point. Now don't tell me "So, why don't u play in quicktime then". Quicktime is not an audio player.

Again, self pwnage & no idea what you are saying.



> Well, the MacBooks and the MacBook Pros don't have a secondary smaller display, so even if OS X has this feature, it will be irrelevant. This feature will be there in OS X once Mac laptops have secondary smaller displays.


Which follows the mac philosophy : If Mac lacks a feature then that feature is not required. Gr8 Logic boy.

Window Vista & nVidia preface invented this technology. nVidia invented the hardware part & Vista invented the software part. You are yourself admitting how much behind Mac is in terms of technology.



> *There aren't, but there are options to get around it via 3rd party.* Try Tivo and Tivo-to-go (or TivoDecoder).


No, Sorry. We are talking here about the OS & in 2007 I don't want to pay more to get DVR/TV functionality in my OS. Windows Vista prevails while Mac OS X sux cos it comes without any Media Center functionality.


> Is that an OS X issue or Hauppage's issue. If Hauppage wants their stuff to work on OS X, shouldn't they write the drivers for it?


Dude, are you out of your mind. Using this analogy I should be able to plug say an Asus 8600GT PCIe graphics card in Mac Pro too, right. Will it work? No it will not. Talk something which makes sense. It is just not about driver it is also about whether the card has the EFI boot ROM in the card itself.



> It's not just a system restore like in Windows. Can you show me a link to this built into Windows?


I urge you to do some research & inquire about this. Windows already had this feature since 2003 with Windows server 2003 R1. How low can you go.

*img369.imageshack.us/img369/9606/untitledel6.jpg

Again, Apple copying Microsoft & then saying "We already had trash can since 20 years, this is just the next evolution of trash can" 



> Oddly, a friend of mine paid extra for a set from Dell and never got it, no matter how many times he bugged them.


Oddly many of my friends got it from HP, HCL here easily.



> If you cannot write in a grammatically correct manner, then inherently the "message" of your post will be unintelligible, or at best, imprecise. That's the whole point of writing (and speaking) in a technically correct manner -- to express yourself with precision and clear meaning.



Again deviating the thread when you are at the pinnacle of stupidity.


> To paraphrase Gary Larson, you (and some other Windows fanboys here) come off sounding like:
> 
> "blah blah blah windows good blah blah blah blah apple bad blah blah blah..."


Fellow members, don't u think nepcker is at the pinnacle of self pwnage himself.


----------



## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

what do u expect from a guy who says:



> i dont use windows porducts, i only use xp, office


 .... source: some 1s signature


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

Actually he says : I don't use Microsoft products. I just use Windows XP, Vista & Office.


----------



## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

^^ same thing ... just proves how intelligent he is


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

I just tried goobi's method, & here is a small flaw in Mac OS X UI

Now *finder has no status bar, if I click on a file it will not show the file content like size etc in the status bar.* The only way is to either use the column view which results in small icons or click on an icon & then either command+I or Click on Get info button in the toolbar which will show the file properties for that one file only.

*Suppose I select many files & click on get info dialog. This mean I m trying to see the combined properties of those files together like total file size etc. However Mac OS X will not show them together instead it will show me individually whether I right click & select get info or click on toolbar button for all those files. *Here is a video I made of this using my Phone which demonstrates that Finder doesn't shows the file properties of all file together unless command+option+I. Why else is the get info button used for? It is a normal mp4 files which will play in Quicktime or WMP with FFDShow etc.

Macboys do tell me about a screen capture utility for Mac OS X, like snagit.

Oh & those calling Safari "Software" better then IE 7 "software" should take a look at this screenshot. This isn't my Computer, just a screenshot I took from net. Now do I have to mention how easier this makes browsing multiple tabs in IE 7  compared to safari.

*img371.imageshack.us/img371/3879/quick8di1.th.jpg

I do admit that the Trident engine IE 7 is using has not been upgraded from a long time. IE 8 will bring about 60% re-written IE 7 rendering engine.


----------



## Piyush Hrithik (Jun 9, 2007)

I Didn't understand on how anybody can use mac and Mac OS's , Mac is quite hard and Windows XP is better than Mac OS X .
*MAC , LINUX , VISTA AND SOLARIS ARE WORST OS EVER I HAD SEEN*
In My advise all must use an Windows XP SP2 PC !!!

(aryayush if you're mac geek and u want everyone to use mac then distribute MacBooks to all ppls in INDIA at the cost of free**)


----------



## ray|raven (Jun 9, 2007)

Only person who ever says WINDOWS XP ROKS,EVERYTHIN ELSE SUKS surely hasnt used em all.
Not sayin that one OS roks,We all are people with different minds and different things appeal to us.
Thats the reason so many different things exist.If one was perfect we wud all be usin it and there wudnt be any such thread.
Oh and if aryayush must distrubute Mac's u shud be the one distributin XP SP2 pc's.

Regards...
ray


----------



## iMav (Jun 9, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Finder doesn't shows the file properties of all file together unless command+option+I. Why else is the get info button used for?


 thats the mac way apparently in finder jobs has made sure that everything u do with 1 hand in windows is done with 2 and if u have 3 its better


----------



## Piyush Hrithik (Jun 9, 2007)

rayraven said:
			
		

> Oh and if aryayush must distrubute Mac's u shud be the one distributin XP SP2 pc's.



I would distribute XP PC's if you would give me money for that !!! LOL


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

Piyush Hrithik said:
			
		

> I Didn't understand on how anybody can use mac and Mac OS's , Mac is quite hard and Windows XP is better than Mac OS X .
> *MAC , LINUX , VISTA AND SOLARIS ARE WORST OS EVER I HAD SEEN*
> In My advise all must use an Windows XP SP2 PC !!!
> 
> (aryayush if you're mac geek and u want everyone to use mac then distribute MacBooks to all ppls in INDIA at the cost of free**)


Every OS has its pros & cons. If you are using an application which is specific to a particular OS then obviously you will need to use that OS whether u like it or not. Example, Final cut Pro, it is only for Mac & if you need to work on it you will need to use a Mac. Besides, you can always show off Mac cos the only thing good about Mac is that it looks beautiful, while doing nothing.

Linux, Solaris etc are good for servers but are very far when it comes to using it on desktops. They don't provide enough features on desktop.

XP SP2 is a solid platform & for old computer without graphics card, wiht .net 3.0 runtime u don't need to look beyond if you are doing specific tasks & don't require features of Vista.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 9, 2007)

Kenshin said:
			
		

> 771 = Xeon
> 775 = Core2duo


Are don't worry, he will overlook & say Apple uses some special kind of XEONs which fit in Socket 775 & we can replace them with C2D.

By the way, the thread starter chinked out. Must be searching for more articles to copy paste from the net


----------



## nepcker (Jun 10, 2007)

Check *www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6

It's about installing a Core 2 Duo on a Mac Pro. 

As for "I don't use Microsoft products. I just use Windows XP, Vista & Office.", I said: "I *do* use MS products......"

It is not my fault if you guys have the understanding of a six-year-old.


----------



## iMav (Jun 10, 2007)

nep accept the fact tht like arya u too have been pwned and move on witn life ...


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 10, 2007)

all in 1 codec for mac os x users 

*rapidshare.com/files/36249380/osx_intel_codec_pack.zip


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 11, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Check *www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
> 
> * It's about installing a Core 2 Duo on a Mac Pro.*


Thats is, Necpker you proved you are an Idiot. I was actually guessing that you will post the anandtech link. Here is something in case you don't know how to read english.



			
				anandtech said:
			
		

> Codenamed Kenstfield (Core 2) and *Clovertown (Xeon)*.Given that the Mac Pro features two LGA-771 sockets, you could theoretically drop two Clovertown processors in there and you'd have an 8-core Mac Pro.





> *We grabbed a pair of 2.4GHz Clovertown samples *and tossed them in the system, and to our pleasure, they worked just fine.  Our samples used a 1066MHz FSB,


, so what conclusion do we come up with? Mac Pro uses Xeon which uses LGA 771 Socket T interface while Core 2 Duo uses Socket 775. *Mac Pro cannot have Core 2 Duo.
*
So, how will you upgrade? Oh wait, you will go to rbay & buy Expensive XEONs cos they are hardly available in retail. Then you will upgrade your Mac Pro, Wow.....

You are more moron then arya was.

It is not my fault nepcker if you have the understanding of a six-year-old.

One thing mac user might argue upon is that when clicking on an Image to see in "Preview" It looks quite nice, reason is that there is no window border. Just a toolbar at top & image below it.

Quicktime Picture viewer does the same thing on Windows but it is very very slow on Windows. Well, what can we expect from Apple who has no idea how to make softwares for Windows.

i did the same thing with ACDSee, nothing just a screenshot of some images in ACDsee & Quicktime Picture Viewer without any toolbar etc, just window mode. Spot any difference? We can do this in ACDSee & much more.

*img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hudlessimagefo7.jpg


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## iMav (Jun 11, 2007)

wat OS are u on wall paper os x ka and the max, min & close buttons winows ka!


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## gxsaurav (Jun 11, 2007)

That is Vista my friend, customised according to my own needs


----------



## blackpearl (Jun 11, 2007)

Boy!! This is one of the best threads. Nobody had dissected Mac OS until now. Its really an eye opener. Should be submitted on digg.com.


----------



## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jun 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> That is Vista my friend, customised according to my own needs


I hope Arya doesn't make another ID n then start posting in this thread again now that nepcker's rants r ruled out


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## goobimama (Jun 11, 2007)

Can someone explain to me this?
*img178.imageshack.us/img178/8519/untitledjp6.th.jpg
I search for part of the filename but nothing shows up in the start search bar. It shows when searching in explorer.

And this?
*img512.imageshack.us/img512/451/clockfk9.jpg
Why is the time wrong? Isn't it supposed to be showing the windows time?


----------



## QwertyManiac (Jun 11, 2007)

Goobimama - I don't think the start menu search thing is used for files or folders apart from the ones inside the Programs menu and commands. Its not a full fledged search feature really .. Just searches stuff inside the user profile directories and WINDOWS directory, and maybe a few more I don't know of. But not just any random file on the HDD 

And about the time, just check if the clock's locale is set the same as your required one? Else its, you know what, the Windows factor


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## praka123 (Jun 11, 2007)

with clock,may be it is using UTC?


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jun 11, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Why is the time wrong? Isn't it supposed to be showing the windows time?


 Nope it isn't , u can customize the clock to display any time you want and you can run as many instances of any gadget u want in the Sidebar


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## sakumar79 (Jun 11, 2007)

perhaps you should search for coldplay* or coldplay*.*?

Arun


----------



## QwertyManiac (Jun 11, 2007)

Kenshin said:
			
		

> *img166.imageshack.us/img166/857/screenyqk3.th.jpg
> 
> 
> wat vista ur using..? dunno bout tat time ka jhol....mines showin correct...
> ...


That .. Doesnt look like its Vista. Is it really Vista? Or just a Start menu mod on XP?


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## goobimama (Jun 11, 2007)

For what its worth, with spotlight, I don't even have to type in the full word. Even coldpl would have shown me those results instantly. And it searches the entire HDD.

I'm running Vista Ultimate retail version with all updates, but settings relatively unchanged. I even took the trouble to add the E: to the index but still no sign.

As for the  clock, I haven't touched it. Its been there since I installed it. Only changed the theme of the clock cause the default one can be a bit ambiguous...


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## QwertyManiac (Jun 11, 2007)

If Kenshin's thing is Vista, then thats funny cause he didnt add his drive for Indexing while you did, and yet it shows for him and not for you  Vista hates you, stop using it  use *nix


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## gxsaurav (Jun 11, 2007)

Kenshin is indeed running Windows Vista with Aero disabled & HilledSE skin.



> don't think the start menu search thing is used for files or folders apart from the ones inside the Programs menu and commands. Its not a full fledged search feature really .. Just searches stuff inside the user profile directories and WINDOWS directory, and maybe a few more I don't know of. But not just any random file on the HDD


It does. Just set to index whole harddisk & it will search the whole index for things right through start menu.

Vista start menu by default searches your user folder as that folder has music etc. While the advanced search searches the whole harddisk. You can set Vista start menu to search for file or folders too, to do this Right click on taskbar->properties>Start menu tab->customise & set it like this

*img145.imageshack.us/img145/6995/untitleder2.jpg



> I even took the trouble to add the E: to the index but still no sign.


Now will you plz let it index once . I hope indexing service is on.

One really good thing which you can install in Vista is Start++ from Bradon Paddock. He works for Microsoft Windows Live search team & has created this application which is really handy.


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## goobimama (Jun 11, 2007)

In the screenshot it shows Indexing complete. It has indexed over the past fifteen days. 

Why does MS complicate things? For a regular user, who doesn't like to fiddle around with settings, the search becomes kind of useless.

On the other hand with Tiger...


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## gxsaurav (Jun 11, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> In the screenshot it shows Indexing complete. It has indexed over the past fifteen days.



Goobi, are those files saved at the default location of C:\Users\<username>\Music . I don't think so. *Besides, I think you are having this due to some other problem cos it is working here & at kenshin's computer too.*



> Why does MS complicate things? For a regular user, who doesn't like to fiddle around with settings, the search becomes kind of useless.



Where does a regular user stores his Music & Movies? The default folders for movies & Music in C:\users\<username> which is included in search. 

What is the default location of Music in Mac ? Music folder on Macintosh HD (primary), default player = iTunes & you cannot set any other player as default in Mac either (let me know if you can) which concludes to the fact that both spotlight & iTunes share the same database.

Besides, Instant search indexes everywhile....while Spotlight first indexes specific file formats or flags first. In my case search is instant in spotlight for wma pr mp4 file, but if I search for nvkext it takes like 5 seconds, well same goes with Vista. What is not indexed will take some time to search


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## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

Well WWDC over & Mac genius is pwned. Lolz......so much for the "Top Secret" features. 

Coverflow in Finder is another copy & enhancement of Already existing feature in Windows XP, the filmstrip. 

Live Previews of files in form of thumbnail, hmm copied from Linux.

Just a video for those who might come & say "Quicklook is innovative & new". Windows already had Windows Preview since Vista Beta 1. Quicklook just opens it in another Window. Yup it is fast cos Quicklook engine is based on Quicktime technology which is all over Mac OS X.

Apple just blindly copying Windows Vista now


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## nepcker (Jun 12, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Again, if I go by this analogy then Windows Explorer is far better then finder. Not only finder is slow but it doesn't let me work the way I want. Windows Explorer supports Cut as well as drag & drop, what will u cal better.
> 
> *About your 2nd statement, isn't finder the default file manager for Mac OS X? so shouldn't this be a flaw of the OS itself.* Suppose Windows Explorer disables the ability to show preview of files & videos, will you say it is a flaw of Windows Explorer or Will u say it is a flaw of Windows Vista. ? First think about what you are saying dude


 It would have been a flaw of Mac OS X under the following circumstances:
(1) This was impossible to do on Mac OS X, or
(2) The OS X way was very difficult when compared to Windows.
Well, anyone above the age of three should find holding the Command key and dragging a fairly easy task.



> The benifit of OpenGL is that it is cross platform. This means just make one code, one gaming engine & simply compile it according to the OS. Making it native to a paltform is not required. So accordign to you it is a flaw of Mac OS X that it can't run a cross platform gaming enigne :d


 OpenGL is cross-platform, but some OS-specific code needs to be there. 



> Lolz...who are you trying to pwn here, yourself? Again saying "Buy a Mac cos you can game on it by installing Windows" what kind of statement is that. Why do u need a Mac, if you plan to install Windows on it to play games. Mac OS X sux for gaming & even you are saying this, Windows is far better.


 Well, I'm posting the truth here. Mac OS X has very less games when compared to Windows. But if you buy a mac, you won't be unable to play the Windows-only games. And you don't need to *live* in Windows to run Windows games.



> Try reading 10 pages behind this thread & you will come to know that they play fine in Quicktime with Flip4Mac but not in iTunes or any other compatible media player I was able to find, & that is the point. Now don't tell me "So, why don't u play in quicktime then". Quicktime is not an audio player.


 And how is this Mac OS X's fault?
It would have been a flaw of Mac OS X under the following circumstances:
(1) Mac OS X couldn't play WMA files at all, and/or
(2) OS X had some code which would prevent the playing of WMA files.
But since OS X *can* play WMA files, it is not a flaw.

Mac OS X doesn't make it compulsory to use iTunes.



> Which follows the mac philosophy : If Mac lacks a feature then that feature is not required. Gr8 Logic boy.
> 
> Window Vista & nVidia preface invented this technology. nVidia invented the hardware part & Vista invented the software part. You are yourself admitting how much behind Mac is in terms of technology.


 I agree, this would be a great feature.

But since no Mac laptops today have smaller secondary screen, even if OS X supported this, it would be of no use. What's the use of a feature if you don't even have the supporting hardware?

Let's see if Apple adds secondary screen on Mac laptops or not...



> No, Sorry. We are talking here about the OS & in 2007 I don't want to pay more to get DVR/TV functionality in my OS. Windows Vista prevails while Mac OS X sux cos it comes without any Media Center functionality.


 Well, yes, Windows is better when it comes to Media Center functionality. But you can also achieve this in OS X, even if it is for a higher price.



> Mac Pro cannot have Core 2 Duo.


 Okay. Fine. I was wrong. Sorry.

*images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/MacPro/OnWindows/clovertowncores.jpg
*images.anandtech.com/reviews/mac/MacPro/OnWindows/clovertowncores.jpg
I just saw the above link and thought that it was a Mac Pro with Core 2 Duo.

But you can get macs with Core 2 Duo.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> It would have been a flaw of Mac OS X under the following circumstances:
> (1) This was impossible to do on Mac OS X, or
> (2) The OS X way was very difficult when compared to Windows.
> Well, anyone above the age of three should find holding the Command key and dragging a fairly easy task.



We are not talking about drag & drop. Ofcourse that will work, but Cut doesn't work & that is the main thing.



> OpenGL is cross-platform, but some OS-specific code needs to be there.



That is compilation. Thats it.



> you don't need to *live* in Windows to run Windows games.



Lolz...u mean you can install Windows on boot camp then simply install game anywhere & play in Mac? Wow, Live virtualisation it seems . nepcker don't u think u will need to boot into Windows to play it.



> And how is this Mac OS X's fault.
> It would have been a flaw of Mac OS X under the following circumstances:
> (1) Mac OS X couldn't play WMA files at all, and/or
> (2) OS X had some code which would prevent the playing of WMA files.
> But since OS X *can* play WMA files, it is not a flaw.



I never said Mac OS X cannot play wma files, i think u need to get your english skills checked. I said clearly that iTunes cannot play WMA files while Quicktime can, despite of the fact that both have common backend.



> But since no Mac laptops today have smaller secondary screen, even if OS X supported this, it would be of no use. What's the use of a feature if you don't even have the supporting hardware?



Well, then it is Apple's fault that they are behind in innovation & technology



> Well, yes, Windows is better when it comes to Media Center functionality. But you can also achieve this in OS X, even if it is for a higher price.



How? We are talking about OS here at its defaut state. If I come to compared Vista with OS X with 3rd party apps installed then OS X stand 0% chances to survice.


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## nepcker (Jun 12, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> We are not talking about drag & drop. Ofcourse that will work, but Cut doesn't work & that is the main thing.


 I'll repeat: It's the Finder that lacks a Cut option.

Usually when people say "cut-and-paste", it is about text. Since OS X supports cut and paste, Mac OS X doesn't miss a Cut option.

So, it's the Finder that lacks a Cut option.



> That is compilation. Thats it.


 Lazy Developers. Can't they spend some time and compile?



> Lolz...u mean you can install Windows on boot camp then simply install game anywhere & play in Mac? Wow, Live virtualisation it seems . nepcker don't u think u will need to boot into Windows to play it.


 You can boot into Windows only to play games. At other times, you can use OS X. So, you're not completely living in Windows.



> I never said Mac OS X cannot play wma files, i think u need to get your english skills checked. I said clearly that iTunes cannot play WMA files while Quicktime can, despite of the fact that both have common backend.


 And how is this Mac OS X's fault?



> Well, then it is Apple's fault that they are behind in innovation & technology


 Are the secondary smaller screens even a new "innovation"? Weren't they there in cell phones a long ago?



> How? We are talking about OS here at its defaut state. If I come to compared Vista with OS X with 3rd party apps installed then OS X stand 0% chances to survice.


 Well yes, Mac OS X is certainly sucks when it comes to media center capabilities out-of-the-box.



			
				Kenshin said:
			
		

> He'll hv to buy windows first......so ultimately if u want a mac and also wanna play games...get a mac,buy windows..install it and enjoy


 You can play games in Mac OS X itself. The only problem is that there are some games that are not available for the platform.

Check www.apple.com/games


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## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> I'll repeat: It's the Finder that lacks a Cut option.
> 
> Usually when people say "cut-and-paste", it is about text. Since OS X supports cut and paste, Mac OS X doesn't miss a Cut option.
> 
> So, it's the Finder that lacks a Cut option.



Finder is the file manger for Mac OS X which lacks a cut feature. yes...that is what we have been trying to say since so long. You got a problem in understand or what?


> And how is this Mac OS X's fault?



iTunes is the Apple made default music player on Mac OS X which plays no other media file. Isn't this Mac OS X's fault?


> Are the secondary smaller screens even a new "innovation"? Weren't they there in cell phones a long ago?



Lolz....you are a certified idiot who is comparing a 2nd display screen with a sideshow device. Go read how they work

*



			Well yes, Mac OS X is certainly sucks when it comes to media center capabilities out-of-the-box.
		
Click to expand...

*


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## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

@ kenshin

 are he uses his Mac to browse webpages without opening web browser. According to him, if a user is idiot enough to open his web browser sure he can get hacked (refer to Mac OS X hacked within 9 hrs thread)

If I follow his analogy then Mac OS X = Kernel only. Lolz even finder is a part of Mac OS X which runs on top of kernel. If finder has a problem, Mac OS X has a problem


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## blackleopard92 (Jun 12, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> Lazy Developers. Can't they spend some time and compile?


oh no, there is lot more to porting games than simple compilation. and no game developer is going to learn and write games for an minority OS which a gamer would never have installed. whose owners never bought it to play games. and with boot camp, scarcity of games is only going to increase.


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## ambandla (Jun 12, 2007)

So, Leopard is coming this October. Right.

Remember all the hype that Vista generated.

Now,

How many softwares run without any hiccup on vista?

How many drivers work fine on vista?

Overimposed security that acts more like a pop up generator.

issues issues issues. 

Still after months of release, everyone says No to migrate to Vista. The company where I work is not going to deploy Vista for atleast another year. Not because of it's cost. Because nothing works in it.

Implementing good explorer does not mean that the OS is the best in the market.

Take a look at OS X. All the releases are rocksolid with no issues.

You may say that its because it is running on Apple's handpicked hardware. 

Yes. 

The result: Rock solid and powerful kernel, Secure OS due to the unix kernel at it's heart (and not due to it's market share), perfect balance between hardware and software, . OS X does what it has to do. 

Is Vista doing what it has to do? Yes. It has to crash everytime you put a new hardware and it's doing just that  .


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## ambandla (Jun 12, 2007)

Kenshin said:
			
		

> ^^ have u used vista??



Yes, but in vain.

Media centric OS. Huh. Cannot detect my TV Tuner card. "Pinnacle PCTV 110i"

Pinnacle media centre does not work on Vista. had to struggle like anything to get Vista MC recognize the card.

Ever tried to copy data from one drive to another on Vista? how many times will "security agent" come up and ask "cancel or allow"?

installing Kaspersky AV crashes Vista to a level that I had to reinstall it and stick to Microsoft Defender, which is best of the worst.

The list of woes is endless



			
				Kenshin said:
			
		

> ^^ have u used vista??



Have you used Tiger?


----------



## Sukhdeep Singh (Jun 12, 2007)

ambandla said:
			
		

> Yes, but in vain.
> 
> Media centric OS. Huh. Cannot detect my TV Tuner card. "Pinnacle PCTV 110i"
> 
> Pinnacle media centre does not work on Vista. had to struggle like anything to get Vista MC recognize the card.



Works for me  Did you try calling Pinnacle or visitng Pinnacle, there is update for Vista there 

Download
*pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Prod...a/MediaCenter+_+TVCenter+v+4_x?mode=documents



			
				ambandla said:
			
		

> Ever tried to copy data from one drive to another on Vista? how many times will "security agent" come up and ask "cancel or allow"?



You can disable UAC

* Method #1 - Using  								MSCONFIG*


  									Launch MSCONFIG by from the Run menu.
  									Click on the Tools tab. Scroll down till you  									find "Disable UAP" (this should probably  									change to UAC in next Vista beta builds and  									in the RTM version). Click on that line.
 *www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_1_small.gif​ 
  									Press the Launch button.
 A  									CMD window will open. When the command is  									done, you can close the window. 
  									Close MSCONFIG. You need to reboot the computer for changes to apply. 
 Note  								that you can re-enable UAC by selecting the  								"Enable UAP" line and then clicking on the  								Launch button.
* Method #2 - Using  								Regedit*


 Open Registry Editor.  
 In Registry Editor, navigate to      the following registry key: 
  										HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System​ 
 Locate the  	following value (DWORD):      
 _EnableLUA_
and give it a value of 0.
 	 	*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_2_small.gif
*Note:* As always, before making changes to your  	registry you should always make sure you have a valid backup. In cases where  	you're supposed to delete or modify keys or values from the registry it is  	possible to first export that key or value(s) to a .REG file before  	performing the changes.​ 
 Close Registry  	Editor. You need to reboot the computer for changes to apply. 
 In order to re-enable UAC just  								change the above value to 1.
* Method #3 - Using  								Group Policy*

This  								can be done via Local Group Policy or via Active  								Directory-based GPO, which is much more suited  								for large networks where one would like to  								disable UAC for many computers at once.  
If  								using Local Group Policy you'll need to open the  								Group Policy Editor (Start > Run > gpedit.msc)  								from your Vista computer. 
If  								using in AD-based GPO, open Group Policy  								Management Console (Start > Run > gpmc.msc) from  								a Vista computer that is a member of the domain.  								In the GPMC window, browse to the required GPO  								that is linked to the OU or domain where the  								Vista computers are located, then edit it.
In  								the Group Policy Editor window, browse to  								Computer Configuration > Windows Settings >  								Security Settings > Local Policies > Security  								Options.
 								*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_gpo_1_small.gif
In  								the right pane scroll to find the User Access  								Control policies (they're down at the bottom of  								the window). You need to configure the following  								policies:
 								*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_gpo_2_small.gif
 								You'll need to reboot your computers.
* Method #4 - Using  								Control Panel*


  									Open Control Panel.
  									Under User Account and Family settings click  									on the "Add or remove user account".
  									*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_3_small.gif​ 
  									Click on one of the user accounts, for  									example you can use the Guest account.
  									Under the user account click on the "Go to  									the main User Account page" link.
  									*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_4_small.gif​ 
  									Under "Make changes to your user account"  									click on the "Change security settings"  									link.
  									*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_5_small.gif​ 
  									In the "Turn on User Account Control (UAC)  									to make your computer more secure" click to  									unselect the "Use User Account Control (UAC)  									to help protect your computer". Click on the  									Ok button.
  									*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_6_small.gif​ 
  									You will be prompted to reboot your  									computer. Do so when ready.
  									*www.petri.co.il/images/disable_uac_7_small.gif​ In order to re-enable UAC just  								select the above checkbox and reboot.


----------



## ambandla (Jun 12, 2007)

sukhdeepsinghkohli said:
			
		

> Works for me  Did you try calling Pinnacle or visitng Pinnacle, there is update for Vista there
> 
> Download
> *pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Prod...a/MediaCenter+_+TVCenter+v+4_x?mode=documents
> ...


----------



## ambandla (Jun 12, 2007)

Kenshin said:
			
		

> ^^.......u r damned pissed of by vista....hehe.......
> 
> 
> no worries...its ur choice afterall tat matters...



yeah man. I share my house with two friends and they say strict NO to vista. They aren't techies and they say that Vista looks so confusing and their electronics simulation softwares does not work on vista at all. Hence I now use a dual booted xp and vista. 

time on xp : 90% time on vista : 10% 

eagerly waiting for vista SP1


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

> How many softwares run without any hiccup on vista?
> 
> How many drivers work fine on vista?
> 
> ...


1) Almost all of them. 98% of the software out there work fine in Vista. If it doesn't just run it in compability Mode.

2) XP is out there since 5 years, do you expect all companies to make Vista compatible driver over a fort night? Is this the fault of MS that a driver is not working, why don't you go & tell to the Pinnacle guys to release a Vista compliant driver.

3) Lolz...then U don't know how to use it I would say 

4) whine whine whine



> Media centric OS. Huh. Cannot detect my TV Tuner card. "Pinnacle PCTV 110i"


Yes & it is Microsoft's fault that a TV Tuner which is not hardware based (Requirment of MCE) isn't compatible with MCE. Then I wonder how my Pinnacle PCTV Stereo is working properly with Windows Vista & ChrisTV 



> Pinnacle media centre does not work on Vista. had to struggle like anything to get Vista MC recognize the card.


Again, don't blame vista, blame the Pinnacle developers for this. Did you tried downloading the latest 4.7 version of Pinnacle TV Centre?



> Ever tried to copy data from one drive to another on Vista? how many times will "security agent" come up and ask "cancel or allow"?


UAC while copying 


> installing Kaspersky AV crashes Vista to a level that I had to reinstall it and stick to Microsoft Defender, which is best of the worst.


I wonder how in gods name I was using KAV 6 & then 7 fine here for few days , & so many other users here. You sure you download a Vista Compatible RTM version of the AV?


> When enabled, acts as a pop up application, When disabled, opens the flood gates



Till date, there is no Vista exploit out there in the wild. There are proof of concept but none of them made it to the wild.


----------



## iMav (Jun 12, 2007)

ambandla said:
			
		

> So, Leopard is coming this October. Right.
> 
> Remember all the hype that Vista generated.
> 
> ...


 i am pretty certain u havent been following the thread coz to ur grudge to the UAC i had said this incase u missede it here it is:



> im the only user
> im the admin
> i can disable uac
> i can install any app w/o being warned
> ...



and yeah arya & nep follow nep's advice .... its the application apple has coded such as itunes, finder and everything else that is flawed not the OS


----------



## gxsaurav (Jun 12, 2007)

iMav,  if you remove those Apple coded applications then Mac OS X = BSD kernel


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## iMav (Jun 12, 2007)

baas wohich solid hai ...


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 12, 2007)

i think more than 40% (may be more) of windows software is not compatible with windows vista not even Dreamweaver 8. Even visual studio 2005 is not compatible with vista without its service pack (its size is more than 500mb ).
but think of those who don't have high speed internet or who don't have internet so it would be very difficult for them to get its fix


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## shantanu (Jun 13, 2007)

Desi-Tek.com said:
			
		

> i think more than 40% (may be more) of windows software is not compatible with windows vista not even Dreamweaver 8. Even visual studio 2005 is not compatible with vista without its service pack (its size is more than 500mb ).
> but think of those who don't have high speed internet or who don't have internet so it would be very difficult for them to get its fix


 
wait a minute....

i think you never used dreamweaver or VISTA.. first Even Dreamweaver 8 works on Vista, Cs3 also works.. now I was using Visual studio 2005 on vista for some time.. now am using orcas(visual studio 2008) ... and its fabulous.. and as every nice guy above said that all 98% app. works on Vista, its completely true.. i wonder how many of you people use ORIGINAL VERSIONS.. i doubt the MAC users here, plus some more.... coz most of them using ULTIMATE VERSION, which was pirated at best level..  (well i talk except the MVPs and some genuine windows users like iMAV)


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 13, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> wait a minute....
> 
> i think you never used dreamweaver or VISTA.. first Even Dreamweaver 8 works on Vista, Cs3 also works.. now I was using Visual studio 2005 on vista for some time.. now am using orcas(visual studio 2008) ... and its fabulous.. and as every nice guy above said that all 98% app. works on Vista, its completely true.. i wonder how many of you people use ORIGINAL VERSIONS.. i doubt the MAC users here, plus some more.... coz most of them using ULTIMATE VERSION, which was pirated at best level..  (well i talk except the MVPs and some genuine windows users like iMAV)


 try to drag and drop and html file on dream weaver it will not work on vista but it will work on windows xp. same problem with tab u can not move tab on vista but u can do it on xp.
and wait a min let me take the screen shot of visual studio compatible error.

and as long as pirated version is concern according to microsoft i am using genuine version 
i get all the update no validation error ! don't tell me that those who paid for it get special feature or update from vista.
i had problem with following windows xp compatible software in vista.
1 visual studio 2005 enterprise edition  and sql server 2005 express edition
2 hp printer driver and software
3 mac drive 6
4 dreamweaver 8 (some of its feature is not working)
5 realtek ac 97
6 kaspersky 6
7 nero premium (now that compatible has been fixed after update)
etc
and it can't even read cd properly some times it take more than 5-10 min to show content of the cd
*img113.imageshack.us/img113/9639/crapvistaqn3.th.jpg
now i just rebooted my system and now vista is reading my dvd wat a piece of crap! 
microsoft released it in hurry thats why it is not stable
i hope service pack will make it stable

Visual studio
*img526.imageshack.us/img526/787/vistasucksyc0.th.jpg

*img502.imageshack.us/img502/1176/error2vq4.th.jpg

compatibility issue with sql server 2005 too
*img526.imageshack.us/img526/6730/sqljj5.th.jpg
microsoft's own software is not compatible with vista  forget about other


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## shantanu (Jun 13, 2007)

something is wrong with you or your comp. for sure..

realtek ac97 -- what kind of a person you are _ i think realtek must have given (released) some drivers for your sound card.. 
*www.realtek.com.tw

then This aint the problem for service pack. when a guy is not satisfied with his own system's performance, or his own doings.. he starts to blame the company for it.. you didnt configure your software properly, you blame Microsoft..

your statement :


			
				Desi-tek.com said:
			
		

> and as long as pirated version is concern according to microsoft i am using genuine version
> i get all the update no validation error ! don't tell me that those who paid for it get special feature or update from vista.



i doubt you using an original version..

well thats another thing.. 

as far as your Visual studio is concerned.. why dont you install a service pack.. (dont give me an excuse for dial up connection) hundreds of people download from Broadband parlours.. isnt it. or you have just installed Visual Studio for fun.. Well if i use a software and the company provides the support for it.. then i readily take it.. why dont you.. i dont think Microsoft is gonna place a BroadBand Internet connection as a support to you, so that you can Download the Service pack for resolving the issues in the Software..

you must GROW UP.. before giving these kind of lame excuses..

try to be genuine and collect proper information.. its not a problemif i want to generate errors.. i think many of us can generate errors in any app. if we intend to.. 

DOWNLOAD THE SERVICE PACK..(click here)

and its just 28.9 MB....

or do you use the pirated version of Visual Studio too..


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 13, 2007)

eh i guess i just found new bug in windows version of safari. now i'll have to write whole thing again 


> @shantanu i didn\0e\0iÿÿÿÿ\0\0€ßR¸àRû\0\0\0<a href=\"#\" onclick=\"imwindow('aim', '$userinfo[userid]', 400, 200); return false;\"><img src=\"$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/im_aim.gif\" alt=\"" . construct_phrase("$vbphrase[send_message_via_aim_to_x]", "$userinfo[username]") . "\" border=\"0\" /></a>\0\0\0\0\0\0¨ßRÐÃDû\0\0\0<a href=\"#\" onclick=\"imwindow('icq', '$userinfo[userid]', 500, 450); return false;\"><img src=\"$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/im_icq.gif\" alt=\"" . construct_phrase("$vbphrase[send_message_via_icq_to_x]", "$userinfo[username]") . "\" border=\"0\" /></a>\0\0xíK!\0\0\0(v;èáR \0\0\0üÈQl\0\0\0\0iew\0!\0\0\0ÈáRâR \0\0\0|gRW\0\0\0\0\0e\0K!\0\0\0èáR˜hB \0\0\0´kBÓ\0\0\0\0e\0X!\0\0\0ðÈQPgR \0\0\0lwB \0\0\0\0 \0\0\09\0\0\0v¶\0\0\0øQ[\0\0\0\0*DxRx°





			
				shantanu said:
			
		

> something is wrong with you or your comp. for sure..
> 
> realtek ac97 -- what kind of a person you are _ i think realtek must have given (released) some drivers for your sound card..
> *www.realtek.com.tw
> ...


i am using vista version of realtek but it is not allowind me to set bit rate to 24 bit. 
and yeah i am not a serious .net developer just using it to prepare for vb.net practical exam than i may not touch it again i am more in java field 
but i do use sql server 2005 and and u know i have no problem is using it on xp without service pack.
and don't expect me to use licensed version of visual studio it is dam very expensive i downloaded it in december 2005 from rapidshare using rconnect.. it is a msdn version of vs. uploaded by one of my friend.
and accept it or not but vista is still very buggy some times it take more than 2min to read other drive (d,e) and cd drive and some times it read the same drive in less than 2 second.
except graphic card (which is onboard) each and every component is up to the standard it run ms sql server, jdeveloper, sun application server perfectly at same time.


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## shantanu (Jun 13, 2007)

Desi-Tek.com said:
			
		

> eh i guess i just found new bug in windows version of safari. now i'll have to write whole thing again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
only realtek HD audio 660 c supports 24bit in onboard solutions.. and BTW you have to blame Realtek for faulty drivers.. while try setting the bit rate from the taskbar sound icon;; right click, playback devices.. speakers. properties.. and in the enhancements tab there is an option if your sound card supports 24bit then you can enable it.. other wise not..

as far as your comp. is concerned.. Vista has an inbuilt Error correction technology for any CD/DVD . The disc is being analyzed and loaded in a HDD section as buffer so that you can copy or install anything you want , and the system does not says you that "" cannot read from the disc "" or any related error.. mostly the very scratched disc are there which take time(you can notice a BAR filling at the TOP of the screen..

the of C D drive.. its a fault of your system. check RAM etc. XP is not 30% what is Vista.. in terms if features and Technology.. so dont expect it to run like Xp on lesser RAM..


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jun 13, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> wait a minute....
> 
> i think you never used dreamweaver or VISTA.. first Even Dreamweaver 8 works on Vista, Cs3 also works.. now I was using Visual studio 2005 on vista for some time.. now am using orcas(visual studio 2008) ... and its fabulous.. and as every nice guy above said that all 98% app. works on Vista, its completely true.. i wonder how many of you people use ORIGINAL VERSIONS.. i doubt the MAC users here, plus some more.... coz most of them using ULTIMATE VERSION, which was pirated at best level..  (well i talk except the MVPs and some genuine windows users like iMAV)


Totally true shantanu , ALL my apps work fine here in Vista , n VS 2005 too wrks perfectly without SP1 .

n yes Orcas(VS 2008 now) is splendid , i'm eagerly w8in for it to be launched .


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## nepcker (Jun 13, 2007)

blackleopard92 said:
			
		

> oh no, there is lot more to porting games than simple compilation. and no game developer is going to learn and write games for an minority OS which a gamer would never have installed. whose owners never bought it to play games. and with boot camp, scarcity of games is only going to increase.


Well, no. Till today, *no* game developer has stopped making games for OS X because of the launch of Boot Camp. A few games may be lost, but there will still be plenty. The number of games have only been increasing, as it is easier to port games to the Intel platform. Only PowerPC based macs will have less number of games.



			
				iMav said:
			
		

> i want to install something
> i have to give my password everytime
> i want to install an app
> i hav to load the dmg again
> i cant un-install the app until the program developer gives an option


Ever tried installing a software from CD/DVD? DMGs are only for files in the internet. But it is usually just drag-and-drop.

And no, you don't have to give the password everytime. You only have to give password to some *extremely limited* applications who access the Library folder.


Some (not so big) flaws of Vista:
*Activation:* The non-genuine Vista is better here. When I installed Vista on my Mac Pro a few weeks back, I unchecked the box asking if I wanted to automatically activate Vista with Microsoft. Then, a few days ago, a warning message popped up telling me that unless I activated Vista, the OS would stop running in two days. (As soon as I moved to activate Vista, a UAC dialog box popped up, asking me if I really wanted to do that. Now *that*'s useful user control!) 

*Sidebar and Gadgets:* I'm less enamored of Vista's new sidebar feature, which allows small gadgets to run on screen all the time (Why does the Sidebar look so much similar to OS X's dock?). They perform many of the same functions as widgets in Mac OS X, except that widgets are called up with a key combo and float onto the screen in front a user's other windows. They don't run in the OS X dock, and you can't move them to the desktop without some third-party intervention. I can call up widgets on my Mac Pro with a quick keystroke -- and dismiss them just as quickly. They don't get in the way and aren't there when not needed. Gadgets, if they remain in the dock, take up screen real estate. Or if I move them onto the Vista desktop and hide the sidebar, they sit behind the windows I'm using in the foreground. That means moving the windows around to find the gadget and check whatever information it provides. While gadgets can be set to remain on top of other windows, you then have to move the gadget around to see what you're working on. In short, *gadgets get in the way*.


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## ray|raven (Jun 13, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> *Activation:* The non-genuine Vista is better here. When I installed Vista on my Mac Pro a few weeks back, I unchecked the box asking if I wanted to automatically activate Vista with Microsoft. Then, a few days ago, a warning message popped up telling me that unless I activated Vista, the OS would stop running in two days. (As soon as I moved to activate Vista, a UAC dialog box popped up, asking me if I really wanted to do that. Now *that*'s useful user control!).



Sry,offtopic but cant stop thinkin of the mac security ad (cant stop laughin either) after i read that.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyGUrPxG1iM
If Vista really worked as on the ad.I wonder why its still being discussed.


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## iMav (Jun 13, 2007)

nepcker said:
			
		

> And no, you don't have to give the password everytime. You only have to give password to some *extremely limited* applications who access the Library folder.


 every application i have installed till date on the os x i have had to enter the password so ur wrong ...



			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> Some (not so big) flaws of Vista:
> *Activation:* The non-genuine Vista is better here. When I installed Vista on my Mac Pro a few weeks back, I unchecked the box asking if I wanted to automatically activate Vista with Microsoft. Then, a few days ago, a warning message popped up telling me that unless I activated Vista, the OS would stop running in two days. (As soon as I moved to activate Vista, a UAC dialog box popped up, asking me if I really wanted to do that. Now *that*'s useful user control!)


 it is much better than having to enter the password also i think ur un-aware of the fact that UAC can be dis-abled unlike the password requirement


			
				nepcker said:
			
		

> *Sidebar and Gadgets:* I'm less enamored of Vista's new sidebar feature, which allows small gadgets to run on screen all the time (Why does the Sidebar look so much similar to OS X's dock?). They perform many of the same functions as widgets in Mac OS X, except that widgets are called up with a key combo and float onto the screen in front a user's other windows. They don't run in the OS X dock, and you can't move them to the desktop without some third-party intervention. I can call up widgets on my Mac Pro with a quick keystroke -- and dismiss them just as quickly. They don't get in the way and aren't there when not needed. Gadgets, if they remain in the dock, take up screen real estate. Or if I move them onto the Vista desktop and hide the sidebar, they sit behind the windows I'm using in the foreground. That means moving the windows around to find the gadget and check whatever information it provides. While gadgets can be set to remain on top of other windows, you then have to move the gadget around to see what you're working on. In short, *gadgets get in the way*.


 dude please dont p[rove the fact that ur a bigger fool than ur mentors 

similar to dock thats the most stupid wtatement any mac bioy has come up with on this forum


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jun 13, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> only realtek HD audio 660 c supports 24bit in onboard solutions.. and BTW you have to blame Realtek for faulty drivers.. while try setting the bit rate from the taskbar sound icon;; right click, playback devices.. speakers. properties.. and in the enhancements tab there is an option if your sound card supports 24bit then you can enable it.. other wise not..
> 
> as far as your comp. is concerned.. Vista has an inbuilt Error correction technology for any CD/DVD . The disc is being analyzed and loaded in a HDD section as buffer so that you can copy or install anything you want , and the system does not says you that "" cannot read from the disc "" or any related error.. mostly the very scratched disc are there which take time(you can notice a BAR filling at the TOP of the screen..
> 
> the of C D drive.. its a fault of your system. check RAM etc. XP is not 30% what is Vista.. in terms if features and Technology.. so dont expect it to run like Xp on lesser RAM..


hi my system is running fine on xp server 2003 and osx currently i am using 1gb ram. is it less? and those drives r working fine on other os
as i said i face this  problem only some times but that particular time is very irritating. and i also did the search regarding that problem and i noticed that i am not the only 1 facing that problem


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## nepcker (Jun 14, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> every application i have installed till date on the os x i have had to enter the password so ur wrong ...


Every application yo installed? Very few applications try to access the Library folder.  List those who asked.



> it is much better than having to enter the password also i think ur _unaware_ of the fact that UAC can be _disabled_ unlike the password requirement


I'm complaining about Vista's activation, not UAC, at least not this time. 



> similar to dock thats the most stupid _statement_ any mac _boy_ has come up with on this forum


Well they don't have anything in common, but they *do* look similar.

And I was complaining about gadgets, not sidebar being similar to dock.


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## goobimama (Jun 14, 2007)

As for moving widgets to the desktop in OS X, you need to hold click and hold the widget while something like Command+F12.....the widget then goes to the desktop.


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## iMav (Jun 14, 2007)

well some widgets like the dictionary are also in the application folder so u can access those widgets from there also no need to have them on the desktop


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## goobimama (Jun 14, 2007)

The convenience of a widget goes beyond opening applications.

For that matter, i don't even use the dictionary widget. For that and much much much more there is Quicksilver. GX, try this out. Its the most amazing app, though not by Apple so I haven't mentioned it.

Just enter ".word" where word stands for any word to be defined. Tab, "dictionary" and its right there.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 15, 2007)

Goobi I have tried QuickSilver, didn't like it 

One thing which even Macboys will find appriciating is XSlimmer. It is an application which removes the unused CPU specific code from you applications. Suppose I have a universal binary of an application called "GX Viewer" & I am running Intel Mac then why do I need the PowerPC specific code in the application? Same goes if I am running PowerPC CPU.


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## goobimama (Jun 15, 2007)

Yeah I've have XSlimmer but didn't bother interfering with my apps cause I don't really have space constraints....

As for not using Quicksilver, sure it is a bit weird using it at first cause it feels like it is just an app launcher. But, at least in my case, over time I realise that I can't live without it. And so do the guys at tuaw...


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## gxsaurav (Jun 15, 2007)

Well, I don't know if real Mac comes with just one big partition or you can manually resize it to make 2 partitions. But here I gave it 10 GB & as usuall installed various things which later I used AppZapper to uninstall. I was short on space so used XSlimmer & recovered about 784 MB of Space  after clearing the whole system cache for Safari & firefox, quicktime etc too. *Don't use XSlimmer if you use a PowerPC application in Rosetta.*

In case of Windows Vista...........applications are already using compressed dll & exe so, *applications on Windows are smaller & slimmer then Mac OS X*. One Example is MS Office. *Office 2007 full installation is 1.9 GB on Windows Vista*, this includes everything. While *Office 2004 for Mac OS X is 4 GB for everything.*


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## gxsaurav (Jun 16, 2007)

Lolz....looks like Mac users just like to advertise here & don't like to help anyone else.

This just in. Yahoo! has released 4th release of its beta for Yahoo Messenger for Mac. Download it here


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## gxsaurav (Jun 23, 2007)

My Mac OS X installation curropted today, oh well...my mistake.

i just found this statement to be amusing when I typed, Sudo -s  

*img463.imageshack.us/img463/8362/dsc00592cr5.jpg


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## goobimama (Jun 23, 2007)

Lol!


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## gxsaurav (Jun 24, 2007)

All done. I now run MacOS X 10.4.10 which detects my Pentium 4 3.06 GHz as 2.4 Ghz Core Colo

I hope the next kernel upgrade of hackintosh fixes it & my CPU is detected as 3.06 GHz Core Duo

So, where were we?


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## cynosure (Jun 24, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> My Mac OS X installation curropted today, oh well...my mistake.
> 
> i just found this statement to be amusing when I typed, Sudo -s
> 
> *img463.imageshack.us/img463/8362/dsc00592cr5.jpg



Same lines of text appered when I typed sudo "some command" in the terminal of vector linux. It was funny but did vector cheat from apple or is it the other way round


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## gxsaurav (Jun 24, 2007)

cynosure said:
			
		

> Same lines of text appered when I typed sudo "some command" in the terminal of vector linux. It was funny but did vector cheat from apple or is it the other way round



Lolz...Since Steve Jobs once said "Mac OS X is Linux with Aqua interface" I think they copied it from Vector Linux.

OMG....Mac does not even has an original error meesage


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## praka123 (Jun 24, 2007)

such a misinformed lott!dudes!sudo is a UNIX package and it runs on Linux and any UNIX provided its dependencies are satisfied and yes,it is a GPL compatible  software.It is a bless as it allows non root users to gain root powers if at all temporary.
MAC OS X too uses BSD licence softwares for eg:sudo
even GNU GPL softwares are mostly ported to work on OS X afaik.
*www.gratisoft.us/sudo/history.html
read below:


> On Unix-like operating systems, the sudo command is used to run commands with the root user's privilieges. This is done by entering sudo at the beginning of each line of commands. Alternatively, one may become root (system administrator) by logging in as "root" or by using the su command. Becoming root requires root's password. In contrast, the sudo command asks for the user's password and does not depend on the root user account.


 *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudo
Waaaowww!!!  
see M$ jumping with patent card below:


> *Microsoft*
> 
> Microsoft Corporation has filed for a patent concerning sudo.[5]


*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudo#Microsoft
SO?@gxsourav dude!where are u?M$ is catching patent for UNIX (from 1980!)   sudo command ? 
is that what Vista lacked off?


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## iMav (Jun 24, 2007)

^^


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## gxsaurav (Jun 24, 2007)

@ Prakash

This is the meaning of the Word Funny from Dictionary.com



> noun,  plural  -nies. –adjective





> 1.providing fun; causing amusement or laughter; amusing; comical: a funny remark; a funny person.  2.attempting to amuse; facetious: Did you really mean that or were you just being funny?  3.warranting suspicion; deceitful; underhanded: We thought there was something funny about those extra charges.  4.Informal. insolent; impertinent: Don't get funny with me, young man!  5.curious; strange; peculiar; odd: Her speech has a funny twang.  –noun  6.Informal. a funny remark or story; a joke: to make a funny.  7.funnies, a.comic strips.  b.Also called funny paper. the section of a newspaper reserved for comic strips, word games, etc.




This is the meaning of the word Humor 




> 1.a comic, absurd, or incongruous quality causing amusement: the humor of a situation.  2.the faculty of perceiving what is amusing or comical: He is completely without humor.  3.an instance of being or attempting to be comical or amusing; something humorous: The humor in his joke eluded the audience.  4.the faculty of expressing the amusing or comical: The author's humor came across better in the book than in the movie.  5.comical writing or talk in general; comical books, skits, plays, etc.  6.humors, peculiar features; oddities; quirks: humors of life.  7.mental disposition or temperament.  8.a temporary mood or frame of mind: The boss is in a bad humor today.  9.a capricious or freakish inclination; whim or caprice; odd trait.  10.(in medieval physiology) one of the four elemental fluids of the body, blood, phlegm, black bile, and yellow bile, regarded as determining, by their relative proportions, a person's physical and mental constitution.  11.any animal or plant fluid, whether natural or morbid, as the blood or lymph.  –verb (used with object)  12.to comply with the humor or mood of in order to soothe or make content or more agreeable: to humor a child.  13.to adapt or accommodate oneself to.  —Idiom14.out of humor, displeased; dissatisfied; cross: The chef is feeling out of humor again and will have to be treated carefully.




Learn these words, then read my Post again. Then delete your post 

It is a known fact that Mac OS X is based on BSD kernel & I already know what sudo means when I was using Ubuntu.


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## praka123 (Jun 24, 2007)

^ but the think is M$ wants to patent it  that's what i


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jun 24, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> ^ but the think is M$ wants to patent it  that's what i


That's what others do when u don't patent something YOU made .

for example , there r many Indian texts that the US has patented


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## praka123 (Jun 24, 2007)

^but software patents does not exists!
*nosoftwarepatents.org


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## iMav (Jun 24, 2007)

parakash just coz there is a website that goes by the name nosoftwarepatents doesnt mean there are no software patents ... 2moro i make a site osamadead.com doesnt mean osama is dead



			
				website said:
			
		

> Under the influence of the patent system and big industry lobbyists, the European Union is on the verge of making a huge mistake: to pass a law that would legalize software patents.


----------



## teknoPhobia (Jun 24, 2007)

thinActually, you really can't patent software per se, in India, it's prohibited under the Indian Patents Act and the US only allows software to be patented if it is integral to the functioning of some hardware that is patentable and only in conjunction with the said hardware, i.e. the software cannot be patented as a stand alone piece of code, the hardware and software have to be patented as a whole. In any case, just because something belongs to a patentable category doesn't mean it is per se patentable, it still has to satisfy the triple test of novelty, utility and non obviousness, which are pretty stiff bars. Similarly, algorithms and business plans cannot be patented either. Finally, patent is a territorial right, just because something is patented in one jurisdiction does not mean it enjoys protection everywhere in the world. Neither does one jurisdiction have an obligation to award a patent to a product just because it has been granted patent protection elsewhere. I may be a pure capital markets lawyer now, but I haven't forgotten all my IP law 

The principal argument based on which patents have been granted for software per se is when the software is used to solve a technical problem.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 25, 2007)

I just found something severely flawed with the Mac OS X method of application installation which makes it completely in-efficient.

I downloaded NeoOffice which is a native port of OpenOffice.org for Mac OS X. It uses native binary etc. The installed file is as you can see, 350 MB. Now according the the Mac way, it loads the full “Writer” application in the memory when started. After which when I further select to launch an application from the Apple Menu it loads the other application completely in the memory.

Here is the thing, It loads the application completely in memory which results in higher memory requirement for the application to run. Now this doesn't affect small apps like Skype or Yahoo Messenger etc as they are just 10 or 12 MB but for such a big app of 350 MB, it makes it load & respond very slow because no matter what Macboys say, the whole Writer app is loaded in memory right now which is resulting in higher memory usage as you can see in the screen shot.

*img525.imageshack.us/img525/9436/picture2hz3.th.jpg

Now come to the Windows approach of loading application. Windows has one small exe file & several helper dll files which are loaded only when required or asked for. When starting an application in Windows, it only loads the exe to the memory along with 1 or 2 dll as required. It doesn't need to load the whole application cos well, if required any dll can be loaded dynamically. Thats why we call it DLL, Dynamic Link Library.

Comparing both methods, I would like the fellow members to tell here themselves which method is more efficient in computers where RAM is always limited. Loading the complete application in memory or Loading only the required part of the application while loading the rest as & when required.


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## goobimama (Jun 25, 2007)

Oh please think first before you write all kinds of crap. There's no point in talking about things you have no idea about...


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## gxsaurav (Jun 25, 2007)

@ Gobbi, don't tell me u did not understand that 

I did my research before I posted that about the name.app format of Mac OS


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## goobimama (Jun 25, 2007)

Well, take for example, a software "Adobe Acrobat Professional 8". Its a 700MB+ 'app'. And when launched it uses just 70MB of real memory (300MB of Virtual memory, but virtual memory is always used in excess on OS X)...


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jun 25, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> (300MB of Virtual memory, but virtual memory is always used in excess on OS X)...


 Means that 300 MB of data is Written to the hard disk(VM=HDD Space as i know) .

well in windows , even while using MS Office 2007 , Firefox , etc VM hardly goes above 200 .

And in case of saurav u can see , his VM usage of just one app is 1.7 GB .


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## gxsaurav (Jun 25, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Well, take for example, a software "Adobe Acrobat Professional 8". Its a 700MB+ 'app'. And when launched it uses just 70MB of real memory (300MB of Virtual memory, but virtual memory is always used in excess on OS X)...


Now I don't know if it is because I m running hackintosh, but the apps start very slow here. Once I quit them & restart them they still start slow.

If I close them, & restart them, they open instantly cos they are already in memory.

Vista is doing the same, but the apps which I quit or close still stay in memory so that if I run them again they start instantly (superfetch).

IF some other app asks for memory, the old memory is released & given to the new app.

In your case goobi...the app is using 70 MB . Thats for what it is showing in your screen right now, more like the RAM taken by the stuff in frame buffer.  But rest of the app is loaded in the memory too.

Just to tell u, I am running a fully functional Mac OS X 10.4.9 kernel. So the memory management is same as what u get on your iMac running Mac OS X 10.4.9.

On top of that I have 10.4.10 kext & update installed. Now, even if I say that there is memory leak, it is still Mac OS X 10.4.9 atleast

In Mac OS X, there are only 2 ways to make an application.app, either XCode or JAVA.


  In case of XCode, when u make an application & package it, it saves as a single folder by the name.app format in which there are application resources, binaries & runtime files.


  Suppose I have another application made, when packing it also bundles the resources, binaries & runtime files for that application.


  This result in 2 two big applications. When you start them, they are loaded completely in RAM+Virtual Memory.


  In Windows, things are different. You make an application using any programming language & IDE be with .net, C, Delphi or VB or JAVA.


  When you package & compile an application, you package the resources, exe & dll files. If it is made in .net then there is only one shared runtime called “The .net 2.0/3.0 runtime”


  When you start an application, only the exe & the helper dll is loaded in RAM with rest of the part staying untouched in HD. Why should the exe load it if it is not needed? If it is required the exe will load it.


  A DLL can dynamically load any other dll, do its work & then remove it or keep the 2nd dll in memory.


  Which method is more efficient? Its logical to understand.


  I don’t know about Linux part so Linux user plz do not come here & say Mac OS X is based on Linux/UNIX so it is efficient. The package management of Mac OS X is not as same as Linux.


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## goobimama (Jun 25, 2007)

No idea what you are talking about dude, but I have found no 'slowness' in my mac. Safari starts with one bounce (sometimes even faster). Photoshop takes no longer than 11 seconds. 

Maybe SuperFetch is better on Vista, I wouldn't know cause I only use that machine for movies...

As for quitting apps, that's where you are going wrong. You need to understand the OS and work with it...don't resist it, cause it will just get bad. Leave that Windows baggage behind... 
OS X in my experience is amazing as memory management. I sometimes have photoshop, dreamweaver, pages, safari, itunes, and a whole bunch of other apps open (as in, the black triangle showing under the dock) with no slowdown in the workings of the system. As soon as a different app takes focus, the one's in the background slowly use less and less memory, taking up virtual memory instead, and I know what virtual memory is. 

But can you explain a 5MB app using 250MB of virtual memory? That happens in OS X, I don't know why and i don't want to know why. Cause it doesn't affect me.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 26, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> *No idea what you are talking about dude, *but I have found no 'slowness' in my mac. Safari starts with one bounce (sometimes even faster). Photoshop takes no longer than 11 seconds.



 That was the technical part. Macs philosophy is "You don't need to know how it works, just work on it".

I am not baling Mac OS X for performance when I m running on my PC. I know it is slow here due to obvious reasons (unsupported drive, chipset etc). I was just talking about how Mac OS X name.app applications work which eats lots of RAM when not even required. They can simply use things like shared resources cos Mac OS X is a self centered OS running on only a few hardware configuration.



> Maybe SuperFetch is better on Vista, I wouldn't know cause I only use that machine for movies...


You have another computer just for movies . Goobi, dual boot on iMac man.



> OS X in my experience is amazing as memory management. I sometimes have photoshop, dreamweaver, pages, safari, itunes, and a whole bunch of other apps open (as in, the black triangle showing under the dock) with no slowdown in the workings of the system. As soon as a different app takes focus, the one's in the background slowly use less and less memory, taking up virtual memory instead, and I know what virtual memory is.



Yup, all OS do the same now. In Vista as well as XP as soon as any application goes to the background, its memory is swapped to VM. Just that Vista is better due to superfetch while Mac OS X is no longer using Pre-binding. In Vista, most of the time I am running 3Ds Max rendering in background minimised to taskbar, with uTorrent or Flashget



> But can you explain a 5MB app using 250MB of virtual memory? That happens in OS X, I don't know why and i don't want to know why. Cause it doesn't affect me.



 you think a 5 MB apps will only use 5 MB RAM, lolz. It is an application. It executes, expands in RAM & then works (thats as technical as I know)


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## goobimama (Jun 26, 2007)

You seriously think you can crowd the taskbar in Windows with all these open apps? If you don't any docs open, you will most obviously close the application to keep it all clean. Not so on the mac. 

Anyway, as for the not knowing how it works, its absolutely true in my case. I don't WANT to know, cause it works so nicely.



> You have another computer just for movies . Goobi, dual boot on iMac man.


Well, I have a dell 24 inch and a Z5500 hooked up to a Pentium 4. Its the obvious choice for movies. I do have a dual boot on the iMac, but there's not point to it. I much too much prefer FrontRow to any other media center app.

As for a 5MB app using more memory, I know that it does use a lot more than 5MB for its workings. But 250MB of VM is a bit of a stretch don't you think?


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## gxsaurav (Jun 26, 2007)

Which app is it?


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## gxsaurav (Jun 29, 2007)

Hey Macboys, mind telling us whether middle click works in Mac or not, i m just sick of using two keys in firefox to open links in new tab. Comon, this is a basic feature in OS.


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## goobimama (Jun 30, 2007)

This is not the basic feature of the 'OS'. It WILL however work with safari in Leopard...

Anyway, I use my middle click for Expose-all windows. And wouldn't change that even with leopard.


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## gxsaurav (Jun 30, 2007)

I got 5 buttons in my Mouse. (I know I know, too complex for Macboys ). Right click & left click do the basic thing & in Windows the left side button is set to middle click. When opening things in Firefox I just use the side button & it opens in a new tab ( a handy feature). There is nothing like this in Mac.


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## goobimama (Jun 30, 2007)

I know how to open tabs with a middle click. Btw, the mighty mouse has four buttons (the side squeeze is left for "show desktop" in Goobimama's world).

Is it like you have no job or something? Cause you obviously seem to be someone with a lot of time on his hands to use an OS WHICH HE DOESN'T LIKE and go through it with a fine comb TRYING TO FIND FAULTS when there is, in his opinion, a perfect OS which he could very well be using...vista. 

Just doesn't make sense...


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## gxsaurav (Jun 30, 2007)

^^^ Time pass in free time. 

The only reason I wanted to use Mac Os (or fedora core 4) was shake 4.1 which now I use

Anyway, how do I set as a button as middle click on Mac?

One more thing. How do I backup my Macintosh Partition?

This is how my current partition is, as shown in disk utility

*img530.imageshack.us/img530/1526/diskpe7.jpg

I want to back it up as a Drive Image. I made a drive image of my Windows XP Partition using Acronis True Image. Is there something like that for Mac so that I can make a bootable replica of my Mac drive, so that in case I screw up the Mac installation again I can simply paste the whole image back.


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## iMav (Jun 30, 2007)

mac vs vista ... it cant get bigger than this ... have a look:

*img238.imageshack.us/img238/7167/screenshot02je8.jpg
Shot at 2007-06-30


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## gxsaurav (Jun 30, 2007)

Your Vista partition is full?


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## iMav (Jun 30, 2007)

nope ... not even 50%


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## gxsaurav (Jul 1, 2007)

Mac is gr8.  I do know that you have installed NTFS 3G Driver but for reading Mac OS X uses the inbuilt NTFS read only driver. Wow, it won't even show the size of a network drive properly.

I just confirmed at a Mac forum,* Mac OS X Finder cannot show Multisession DVDs at all.*


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## gxsaurav (Jul 2, 2007)

Another flaw I found in Mac OS X. You cannot lock your Mac the way you can in Windows Vista.

In Vista, you lock your user or screen, you can simply click the lock button on the start menu. Your screen will be locked & if you have set a password then it will ask for a password to unlock it.

At this stage, another user can come & log in to his own account, & the previous users account will continue to run in virtual memory. The 2nd user can simply complete there work & log out while the first user will still continue to run.

In Mac, when you lock your screen, it runs a screensaver, now to unlock you move the mouse or press a keyboard. However, you cannot login to another user account while doing this. You can only login to the account of the user who locked the screen.

Windows way is much better cos you can continue to do your work like downloading etc, & lock your user while some other user can simply login & do whatever he wants.


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## iMav (Jul 2, 2007)

salesman: sir our products are meant for personal use please look at the design and UI it looks so cool


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Jul 2, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> salesman: sir our products are meant for personal use please look at the design and UI it looks so cool


 He He


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## gxsaurav (Jul 4, 2007)

Gr8, Mac OS X borked again, while trying to enable Quartz Extreme & Core Image.

I still have the old Image, but don't know how to paste it.


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## goobimama (Jul 4, 2007)

Well, on the 'authentic' mac, you got to boot from the OS X disc....


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## gxsaurav (Jul 4, 2007)

Edit: Mac OS X works again. Just pasted my backed up Extensions folder & gefroce.kext


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## Desi-Tek.com (Jul 4, 2007)

@gx_saurav yaar why don't u do those R&D on vmware? if u get any success there rhan u can apply it on os x installation on ur pc too. It is less risky


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## gxsaurav (Jul 5, 2007)

It doesn't installs on VMware

VMWare emulates a graphics card so I cannot do R&D for Core Image & Quartz Extreme

I made that disk image using RsyncX, which does the job on incremented backups too. This is what i used today to revart to my old Extensions & GeForce.kext

Well, it corrupted.

What an OS, *can't stand even a simple bit of tweaking*. . Even Linux doesn't corrupts this quickly.

Well, The truth is out there for anyone to see, I really miss my TV (Windows XP + PCTV Center). I m reverting back to Windows XP on the 8 GB partition like before, still got the Acronis Disk Image intact. Will try Leopard when it comes, cos so far I have learned all that I wanted from Shake 4.1 & other than that, Mac OS X has no use.


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## nepcker (Jul 6, 2007)

Happens when you use OS X on unsupported hardware.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 6, 2007)

hmm...I wonder who I should laugh at. At Apple which supports Core Image & Quartz Extreme on GeForce FX 5200 but not on 5900XT (same geforce FX family). Or nVidia for not suing Apple, cos they modify drivers after auditing the nVidia drivers.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> hmm...I wonder who I should laugh at. At Apple....Or nVidia....


neither! you should keep mum while everyone of us should laugh at you  trying out something which is termed illegal and not supported by either of them on ur hardware... then asking on whom shud u laugh at coz it doesn't work for you! how stupid can you get, buddy!


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## gxsaurav (Jul 6, 2007)

Well, I do admit & will not blame Apple or nVidia that it doesn't work here on my Computer, neither I will blame them for slow performance.

I did forgot, Apple Mac is not a PC & will not work on PC hardware, oh my....from years I m so used to of running my computer my way.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 6, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Apple Mac *is* not a PC......


correction: ... *was* not a PC


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## gxsaurav (Jul 6, 2007)

Point, Apple Mac was not a PC. Apple Mac = PC + TPM chip


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## gxsaurav (Jul 7, 2007)

This is funny....One thing PC users can do that Mac users can't

Statuary warning : The link is not suitable for Macboys & kids of age 18


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 8, 2007)

found these two things extremely humerous from the link posted by gx:

1)

*www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/eula.gif
From the actual iTunes End User License Agreement.

2)1,799,014 Mac fans switched back over to Windows, even though *Windows is just as shitty.*


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## goobimama (Jul 8, 2007)

Point number 2 really caught my attention. A must read for any 'boy'....

Good one GX.


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## Help~Is~Here (Jul 11, 2007)

*Awesome new MAC vs PC video*

Guys, check out this awesome new video  

Guess, it puts a new voice to the fight between MAC & PC. Alright, lets put the fighting back and take a minute to enjoy this together.Checkout the cool music video. Enjoy!   
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkrn6ecxthM


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## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg&mode=related&search=
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa1RCg-Ccp0&mode=related&search=

The best Mac vs. PC videos of all time...IMHO, of course haha

Edit - ok, ok...so the first ones aren't ALL that accurate...this one's a bit more accurate:

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&mode=related&search=


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Lolz,,, Ya, I saw them all. Apple made ads are so wrong, they don't show both the sides, well...these videos do.

Hey arya, let me know if you can upgrade that gfx card in your macbook Pro. Oh wait, you can't but on High end HP & Sony VAIO's you can, cos they use nVidia MXM or AMD Axiom interface


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## faraaz (Jul 11, 2007)

@gx: About those high-end HP laptops...can you give me a link to one please?? And are these available in India? Wow...I thought only Alienware did this...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Nope, not in India. atleast not in there website.

I wonder one thing. Andy & Arya has been here for quite some time. Andy is even a mod & he has been defending Apple & Mac OS X from ages. Well, Arya is walking on his footsteps now. However, *before we started this thread, none of the Macboys ever told anyone about the flaws of Mac OS* X like no support to use Multisession DVD out of the box or Cut option in Finder or Dock not grouping similar windows. Why is that? *Why were macboys hiding the flaws of Mac OS X?*

Oh! wait, Mac OS requires a Mac, so they must have though that we will never be able to find the flaws, Mac will be shown superior to us.

All hail my friendly neighborhood Apple store


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## goobimama (Jul 11, 2007)

Flaws? What flaws? Cut option is NOT a flaw according to me though Winboys tend to think so. Its a different way of computing. Get over it.

Multisession maybe, but it does read Mac multisession discs. Dock grouping similar windows is not how we work. I hardly ever minimise any windows, so where's the question of grouping? Its a different way of doing things.

Any more "flaws"?


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## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

after 29 pages more than 3 topics these guys still dont know the flaws pointed out ... ignorance at its best ...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Some facts

Q: What is the difference between a Macboy & terrorist
A: You can negotiate with the terrorist

Macboy Philosophy : Dikhawe par jao, apni aakal mat lagao

Macboy Philosophy : JAVA Sux, cos El Jobso said so

Macboy Philosophy : Just look at the UI, it is the only thing which look so cool

Macboy Philosophy : More features != better

Macboy Philosophy : Ignorance is bliss. We don't care how Apple extorts money from us, we will pay cos its Apple.

Macboy Philosophy : If a feature is not given in Apple products, then that feature is not required in computing world. If iPhone has no JAVA or Flash or  MMS then those features sux.

Macboy Philosophy : We are idiots 

Goobi, u still have to tell me how to see Multisession DVD in Finder. I asked this on neowin & they said it is not possible.


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## goobimama (Jul 11, 2007)

I said Mac multisession disks. and since its not possible to write Multisession DVDs with OS X, that possibility is out of the question. Writing multisession CDs (yeah, primitive, I know) and reading them is possible. Each session mounts as a separate volume though...

And who said we don't have "grouping similar windows together" in OS X? Right click on any dock icon with a window or two or fifty open, and you have a list of all your windows..."grouped" together.


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

Isnt OS X leopard betas available from www 
and the cut option in MAC may be used via Terminal.use "mv" command to "cut" if u want that.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> and the cut option in MAC may be used via Terminal.use "mv" command to "cut" if u want that.


Lolz...plz, you don't belong here . using terminal to do something in Mac OS X which is so called praised for the GUI, which we can do in Windows via simply right click , only a Linboy can think of something like that


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## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Lolz...plz, you don't belong here . using terminal to do something in Mac OS X which is so called praised for the GUI, which we can do in Windows via simply right click , only a Linboy can think of something like that



Macs have a terminal emulator?! =P

I'd think nothing of it (though "cut" in Linux works nicely =), but on a Mac?  *GASP*


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

```
[URL="*www.ss64.com/osx/mv.html"]mv[/URL]        Move or rename files or directories
```
 *www.ss64.com/osx/ 
Stop whining @gxsaurav,u said OS X dont have a cut option.Now here is the cut option,what answer do u have 
@rocket:sure.MAC is also a ahemm..UNIX(bsd?) and yes VTE(tcsh) is there for MAC OS X too.only thing is someone write a gui for the command.yes,afaik already implemented in OS X Leopard


> *Command-line Environment*
> 
> UNIX users will feel at home in Darwin, the robust BSD environment that underlies Mac OS X. That environment is accessible at any time from the Terminal application. You can also run commands that don’t require arguments (such as top) by double-clicking them in the Finder. With the thousands of man pages included in Mac OS X, you can quickly find all your favorite UNIX tools.


 *www.apple.com/macosx/features/unix/
So Now Winfanboys knows that MAC OS X is also *UNIX* and got a *"cut"* option  OK?


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## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> @rocket:sure.MAC is also a ahemm..UNIX(bsd?)


It's Darwin, to be precise.

I was being sarcastic, by the way...It's just so "anti-Apple" to drop to a command line and run "man"...

But (and here's the kicker)...*Mac's have that capability.  *Hrmmm...sounds like a bonus to me rather than a negative...

Then again, what do I know?  I'm just a BSD/Linux guy.  I don't mess with "fluffy" operating systems like Mac and Vista...



Edit - Oh Dear GOD!  You mean "cut" as in "cut -n- paste"?  Give me a break!  You're arguing over THAT?  I thought you meant "cut" as in "cut - remove sections from each line of files" (man cut on a GNU/Linux system or BSD system).  Sigh...this has really gotten dumb.


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

but here MAC boys(not knowing  teh power of CLI) are bashed to silence by three Musketeers(courtesymeditator)  .So give MAC owners a relief,let the truth be out.
Edit:
@rocket: yes* cut* is there as a line editor.but here *mv* is the thing.
the problem here is winfanboys argues that Mac OS X tiger *dont *have  cut option.But via terminal,it sure does have.that is the point here.
hope mac users try terminal's power:
*www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2004/02/24/bash.html*www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2004/02/24/bash.html?page=2


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Prakash, how stupid can u get. Since, i am no longer fighting with your DRM DRM DRM DRM you came here



			
				praka123 said:
			
		

> Stop whining @gxsaurav,u said OS X dont have a cut option.Now here is the cut option,what answer do u have



Answer : *Terminal is not a file manager.* Mac OS X File manager in Finder which has no cut option. In all this thread we were talking about cut option in a file manager & Finder has no such option.

We already know that Mac OS X is using a BSD kernel, what r u trying to prove? *Mac OS X is not UNIX. It is a BSD based Darwin Kernel + Aqua Window Manager* + etc etc etc

hey, is Linux UNIX? Well, according to Prakash's theory it is. Means SCO was right all this time 

Yup, let the truth be out that *Mac OS X requires dropping to command line to simply cut & paste a file from one folder to some other folder.*


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

^dude-ignorant-DOnt u UNDERSTAND that Linux is only *UNIX-like*.go do ur homework!
and i have seen rantings here that MAC has no cut option.but even if via terminal cut option is there.now what  pity on u


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## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

congratulations ... where is the marching bands and the trumpets for prakash ... he has just made it to the digitforum stupid statements elite club 

terminal has cut hahahahah .... prakash u want every time i want to cut and move a file to a location i should open terminal enter long codes (find the file location coz guess wat finder doesnt give u file locations in address bars) ... wow prakash u just told the whole world how inconvinient os x is ...  .... desperation always leads to stupidity ur desperation to prove gx wrong was so mch tht aapne apne hi pair pe khuladi maar li ... 

nokia cellfpnes are like SE ... bole toh SE and nokia are the same  ... desperation


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

^ignorance is bliss.eh?meh i am wrong windows users cant tolerate reality.sorry for that.


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## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

reality hahahaha some 1 needs a crash course in ease of use and user friendly os  ... once again congratulations prakash ... *u gave the entire computing fraternity the most easiest way to cut files between drives*  fellow members mac has a cut option in terminal  .... find the file destination, by heart it coz again finder doesnt give u the entire addrs for copying it then open terminal paste it give horribly long commands ... to do wat ... cut a file ... windows just wants u to drag the file  .... prakash .... seriously man iv been on this forum for some time now .... this is the most stupid/ridiculous statement iv read ....  use terminal to move files in a GUI OS


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 11, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> nokia cellphones are like SE ... bole toh SE and nokia are the same  ... desperation


hmm... lets keep that topic as a separate thread. i'm sure it'll run into the same number of pages as this thread!

anyways, ontopic: mac os x has cut+paste option via terminal mv command. the finder has no cut option. everyone agrees to that and as to what i remember the winboys here said the same thing: finder has no cut option, which is true. i don't understand now on what topic the fight between prakash and winboys is going on??!!!


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## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

tht was an example ...  ok this 1 would suit better ... htc has a fone like ifone which acc to prakash would mean tht both are same  ....


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Yes...*.reality . To move a file from one folder to another, use the terminal & command line interface.*

Wow, isn't according to Mac OS X EULA & Apple, it is the most convenient OS out there. Hey arya...you are the sales...I mean Mac genius, you tell us is it convenient to use CLI to move one file to another location in Mac compared to cut or drag & drop.

Fellow members, *this is how to u move a file from one folder to another in Mac OS X using CLI *

1) Go to the file which you want to move to another location. Right click on that file & select Get Info, or press command+i. This will give u a file properties dialog, there U will see the path of that file. Don't close this properties Window cos *you cannot copy the address shown in properties Window.*

2) Now, go to the folder where you want to move that file. Select any file & right click & select "Get Info", keep this properties Window open & see the path of the file

2) Open Terminal & write this command by looking at the properties of the file to see its location.

<xyz> : mv /first location/ /2nd location

Press enter & wait. There is no notification or sign or anything that the file copy operation is over. Wait, wait wait.....when the file is copied you are given a blank terminal window again.

Wow, its so convenient to the Windows Explorer's way of Right click -> cut method or the drag & drop method of Mac OS X Finder 

Just go & tell this on any Apple forum. "you should move one file from a folder to another folder using the command line as mentioned above". Then come back here & tell us how many people called u idiot, how many called u stupid & how many called u moron 

@ Anirudh

We are not fighting, we are just laughing at the statement given by Prakash, lolz....even arya will laugh at this


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## kalpik (Jul 11, 2007)

^^ *OR* you can just use drag and drop?


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## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

^^ in os x u cant ... u drag drop and then delete the file u dragged if u wanna move


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## praka123 (Jul 11, 2007)

sorry to burst the bubble,
In Finder,cut option can be enabled,if mac users are ready to use terminal 
but it just moves the file to .trash(not uses mv) google for that.
*www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20060626085238931
Also is Filecutter-


> *FileCutter* is a contextual menu plugin that brings two new file management features to the Finder context menu.
> In addition to Apple's offered ability to copy and paste files, FileCutter lets you cut files before pasting, and lets you paste an alias to a copied file rather than make a duplicate file.


*www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/21769
though i agree that finder by default dont enable cut option-that seems to be a stupid decision from mac.


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## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

Unbelievable...you guys are giving someone grief over the fact that they can't do something in GUI that your OS can do?  Get over it!

How about this?  How long would it take you to rebuild your OS from source code with different settings?  Oh, I forgot...you Winboys can't do that =P

Mac can't either (AFAIK), since Apple closed the kernel source...

Hrmmm...who can do that?  Perhaps Linux?  Perhaps BSD?

What about the neutered "Command Prompt" that Windows has?  Last I looked, you couldn't accomplish much of anything useful with it...Does that mean Windows is doomed to failure because people like me can't get anything done without resorting to using a bloated, overweight GUI?  What about running *without* a GUI?  Can Windows/Mac do that?  Last I looked, I can run a Linux system without X and get complete functionality (well, ok, maybe I can't watch movies...THAT'S WHAT MY DAMNED DVD PLAYER AND TV ARE FOR!) for around 12 MB of memory usage...when was the last time EITHER Windows or Mac could do that?  And don't give me the "GUI's are required" bit...they AREN'T required!

The more I read the more I'm convinced that you guys are just looking to fight...you certainly aren't looking to *prove* anything, because someone's choice of OS is independent of your opinions!  If you're trying to prove that one OS is better because it's easier to use, then let's talk on the other end of the spectrum again...let's talk security!  OpenBSD isn't easy to use in terms of GUI's and all, but it's MUCH easier to secure than Windows or Mac...

Oh, you can't live without your GUI?  Sounds like a personal problem to me...


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## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

kalpik said:
			
		

> ^^ *OR* you can just use drag and drop?



Yes, we can. Indeed. Then go to the old location & delete the file.

We know this, we already told this 15 pages ago, still Prakash came here cos Mac OS X has DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM DRM


----------



## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

^^ we have tht extension since some time  ... bubble nahin burst hua ... u just emptied a whole bucket of watter on u  use terminal to move files 



			
				rocket357 said:
			
		

> Unbelievable...you guys are giving someone grief over the fact that they can't do something in GUI that your OS can do?  Get over it!
> 
> How about this?  How long would it take you to rebuild your OS from source code with different settings?  Oh, I forgot...you Winboys can't do that =P
> 
> ...


 the title of the thread means something ...  read it again ... 

u hav no idea of what the mac boys made os x sound like ... we started a thread where we reviewed the os x but the truth hurt the mac boys' feelings and the thread got closed out of sheer desperation an apple saleman started this thread in an attempt to show case and highlight the flaws in his os


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> sorry to burst the bubble,


Lolz...Hey, iMav.....didn't u posted file cutter in the other thread like 1 month ago. Sorry Prakash you are late. 

@ Rocket, 

Linux, BSD. Yo, this thread is about Mac OS X & Windows Vista. There security & ease of use. Why r u bringing Linux/BSD in here? We are not discussing that here



> And don't give me the "GUI's are required" bit...they AREN'T required!


Holey f***,  Good luck making a spreadsheet, Powerpoint presentation, Photoshop painting using Command Line. You are actually telling us to go to 1994 , you really are stupid.



> OpenBSD isn't easy to use in terms of GUI's and all, but it's MUCH easier to secure than Windows or Mac...oh, you can't live without your GUI? Sounds like a personal problem to me...


abe security ka achchar dalun if it can't play a porn movie 

P.S. - You know Hindi?


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> the title of the thread means something ...  read it again ...


I see the title...I'm not talking about this specific thread!

All you guys want to do is argue with each other.  That's it.  There's nothing going on here other than "Windows this" and "Linux that" and "Mac this"...

Sigh...

This has got to be the most closed-minded group of people I've ever had the displeasure of knowing.  Seriously...get over yourselves!  There's no truth floating around here other than "Winboys got a posse that can talk smack" and "Macboys run for cover when the sh!t hits the fan", etc..

Edit - have fun playing with each other...Peace...I gotta get to some intelligent conversation before I lose it haha


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

rocket357 said:
			
		

> I see the title...I'm not talking about this specific thread!
> 
> you guys want to do is argue with each other.  That's it.  There's nothing going on here other than "Windows this" and "Linux that" and "Mac this"...



And we wan to talk & discuss about Windows Vista vs Mac OS X in this Fight club thread. So....there's the door. Seriously, Linboys don't belong here. We are not talking about security here, so BSD doesn't belong here. Which means you don't belong here. Plz leave the thread


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> And we wan to talk & discuss about Windows Vista vs Mac OS X in this Fight club thread. So....there's the door. Seriously, Linboys don't belong here. We are not talking about security here, so BSD doesn't belong here. Which means you don't belong here. Plz leave the thread



Man, one last comment then I'll leave you guys to your debate...

All I'm getting at is doesn't it EVER get old running through the same "Windows sucks because of Microsoft" and "Mac can't cut files in GUI" stuff?  You said so yourself that the topic was brought up a month ago!  And here it is, you're still pursuing this train of thought.

Just curious...but whatever.  Go argue about your GUI's a bit more.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 11, 2007)

rocket357 said:
			
		

> I see the title...I'm not talking about this specific thread!
> 
> All you guys want to do is argue with each other.  That's it.  There's nothing going on here other than "Windows this" and "Linux that" and "Mac this"...
> 
> ...


aah rocket.. you are new here.. welcome to thinkdigit... a forum to discuss err.. fight about.. apple.. mac...windows.. linux..drm.. and nothing else.. everyone has their rocket launchers ready to fire on the other... people boast about the OS of their choice coz not everyone uses it.. then people install OS' so that they can simply bash.. then again people fight about something which will hardly affect them in anyway.. yet behave as if its their 'life support system'!! well initially there were const. critisisms.. but now its like kids fighting over chocs... seems extremely silly now.. whatever be the topic... but don't worry.. you'll get used to it!! welcome again


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Well, I think you should have a look at some of the pages in this thread in which we posted about 24 flaws of Mac OS X in just 2 weeks of using it.

Oh wait, u didn't see those, right?

See, we are doing just one thing. From the time Andy got Mac in this forum he has been praising them. Arya bought his Macbook & became a sales man. Goobi,well he became a Designer macboy. Nepcker....well, his stupidity is well known when he tried to insert a Intel XEON CPU in Core 2 duo socket trying to prove that Mac Pro can be upgraded, or better yet, when he compared ACDSee 1.6 released in 2001 to iPhoto 6. :d

However no one mentioned these flaws of Mac OS X ever in this forum & were always trying to show the good of Mac OS X. Come on, Mac OS won't even let u resize a Window from any side, just from the south east corner. You still call this GUI good?

This thread was silent, until prakash decided to pwn himself.

@ anirudh

nah, i prefer BFG10K. Hai koi mac ka lal ....mu ha hahahahahah

Oh wait, Mac has no games, so I better define what BFG10K is.


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> ....so BSD doesn't belong here.


of corz it does... darwin is a derivative of bsd!


----------



## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

gx its our fault that we decided to point out a few features of the OS X ... infra we reviewed the OS point by point the mac boys turned it into and ego issue ... we just played the ball as it rolled coz we knew after using the os x where it stood as compared to windows in terms of prodcutivity and ease of use


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Yo...dude, we are not talking about kernel in this thread. You think darwin = BSD kernel? Look again, Darwin is more like BSD kernel, remade for Apple Mac OS X.

BSD Kernel is not exactly equal to Darwin kernel, it is a derivative & highly stripped for use in Mac specific things. You cannot make a BSD system using Darwin kernel.


----------



## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

hey gx look at the design and ui of darwin its so cool


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> his stupidity is well known when he tried to insert a Intel XEON CPU in Core 2 duo socket trying to prove that Mac Pro can be upgraded


.....

Please tell me you're joking...

Ok, having heard a bit of history, and infra's description of the history here (yeah, I'm new, they don't hand out "The history of this site" when you register...heh), I can understand the constant fighting...it just seemed like no progress was ever made on either side, yet like the trenches of Europe in WWII you guys just keep at it regardless.  So if this is a site tradition, then have at it!  haha

Edit - and sorry for the interruption...heh


----------



## iMav (Jul 11, 2007)

na all w say is dont rant abt ur OS it also has its flaws ...


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> na all w say is dont rant abt ur OS it also has its flaws ...



Dude, that's what I was getting at!

All you guys DO is rant about this OS, that OS...then shoot each other down and call names...I mean, it's been entertaining for a few days, but isn't there anything else to this site?  haha.

Not slamming...just curious, that's all.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 11, 2007)

Check who started this thread & trying to prove what?

Answer : The salesman


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Yo...dude, we are not talking about kernel in this thread.


well all the threads in the forum haf strings attached. i think everybody should put an asterix in the end of the thread title and then at the end of the first post they must put this up: * Conditions apply!!!

i understand that its mac vs vista thread. no-where haf they mentioned that kernel/security comparision is not allowed! i can't understand apart from gui what else do you wanna compare between the two and i find it surprising that macboys hafnt pointed it out!!!

why don't you guys compare the process/thread and scheduling, file system, network stack, structure, thread mapping, kernel modules/drivers etc..??? people will at least learn something out of it. is computing only about the gui and the ease of use? are other aspects too lame to be discussed? 

sorry, but i find it too stupid when someone advertises his choice of OS while the other keeps saying that the file manager has no cut option.. and this sh!t runs into 15 pages! get over it.. grow up children!



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You think darwin = BSD kernel?


plz mention my post where i said that darwin kernel = bsd kernel.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> .....Darwin kernel, it is a derivative.....


are you blind or something??!! plz read my post again. i said the same thing!

i'm not asking u to compare the security aspect involving bsd kernel and vista kernel. i'm asking u to compare the darwin kernel, which is a derivative of bsd kernel wid the vista kernel.


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 11, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Check who started this thread & trying to prove what?
> 
> Answer : The salesman



Point taken.  That was a direct challenge, and as such sigh...it's asking for a deathmatch.  Again, apologies for interrupting!



			
				infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> why don't you guys compare the process/thread and scheduling, file system, network stack, structure, thread mapping, kernel modules/drivers etc..



Hrmmm...do they make GUI's for those?

haha

I'll leave that alone...this being a "Vista vs. Apple" thread and all.


----------



## iMav (Jul 12, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> why don't you guys compare the process/thread and scheduling, file system, network stack, structure, thread mapping, kernel modules/drivers etc..??? people will at least learn something out of it. is computing only about the gui and the ease of use? are other aspects too lame to be discussed?


 infra wat r u saying just look at the design and ui its so cool


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 12, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> infra wat r u saying just look at the design and ui its so cool


exactly! so what does the underlying darwin base (wid the mach kernel) look like widout the apple developed ui???

haf a look here!
*www.gnu-darwin.org/today2.png

and here:
*yves.gnu-darwin.org/screenshots/distro-1.1-gnome.png


----------



## iMav (Jul 12, 2007)

infra choli ke piche kya hai dikhau ge toh mac boys toh bhaag jayenge ... aisa zulm matt kar o


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 12, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> why don't you guys compare the process/thread and scheduling, file system, network stack, structure, thread mapping, kernel modules/drivers etc..??? people will at least learn something out of it. is computing only about the gui and the ease of use? are other aspects too lame to be discussed?



Do u expect macboys to understand these highly technical terms  when Arya says EFI was under construction since 1991 & came to Mac OS X in 2001, or PC's cannot boot from USB Disks, or when a Nepcker tries to insert a Xeon in C2D socket or when Arya tries to use iSight Camera with PC or when.....ah forget it, thats too much to write here.



> plz mention my post where i said that darwin kernel = bsd kernel.



Didn't you said, Mac OS X uses a BSD kernel.



> i'm asking u to compare the darwin kernel, which is a derivative of bsd kernel wid the vista kernel.



Again, highly technical terms which I will understand, you will understand but Macboys won't understand. Did you forget

Macboy Philosophy : Dikhawe par jao, apni aakal mat lagao 

By the way, you call that BSD UI cool? Yuck thooo


----------



## infra_red_dude (Jul 12, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> of corz it does... darwin is a derivative of bsd!


ok here.. i'm quoting my own post.. lemme kno where i say that mac os uses bsd kernel or darwin kernel = bsd kernel.

hey gx.. i didn't say that it looks cool. i only gave a couple of screen shots of a darwin system widout the quartz ui.

again, if u think the points of comparison i mentioned are too hi-fi then i guess u can close this thread. there's no point in saying the same thing again and again... and bloatin the forum database: finder has no cut option! right, we kno it now.. i can see the desperation on both the sides.. nobody leaves a single stone unturned to pick up a fight... as i said, i find it silly.. utterly silly... but then mebbe its jus me! sigh.. guess i shud stop speaking and start listening as in other threads...

all i wanted was that to compare the two in all possible fields so that people do learn about their internals and the debate/discussion becomes more interesting... all i see is desperation here.. and everywhere.... nothing usefull....



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Do u expect macboys to understand these highly technical terms.......
> ......Again, highly technical terms which I will understand, you will understand but Macboys won't understand.


if u say that you understand this then do post about it. eventually macboys will surely post something to counter it. in the process you or macboys will definitely try to dig things out.. mebbe from their knowledge or by referring somewhere.. this will help all of us to learn new things... this is how constructive critisism works out to be... everyone is benifitted and we aint deviating from the topic too. it'll become interesting....


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 12, 2007)

^^^^ See, first of all I don't want to talk or fight regarding the internal of Mac OS X or Vista, cos If I come to do that....well, Mac be pwned. Reason, Vista has an original kernel while Mac OS X is using a derived kernel which is not even made by Apple.

Again, what I know is something I speak from my own experience. I used to work on Mac OS 9 & OS X 10.1 before I switched to Windows world due to the flexibility it gave me in hardware, & because my PSOne broke after which i fell in love with Quake 3 

In case of Macboys, you yourself saw that they don't know how computers work, they don't know how an OS works & this is proved already various times in digit forum. Where were the Macboys when iLugd asked help regarding his music synthesizer in Mac Pro?
*
It is better to talk with Linboys about Technical things cos they have some knowledge. Macboys hardly have technical knowledge.* They think upgrading RAM in a Laptop is like climbing a mountain . T*hey simply copy paste from internet,* post links, well......it is already public what the Apple Sales crew does in digit forum.
*
I am sorry, I cannot talk about technical terms here .* Like I said, I can understand, you can understand, zeeshan will understand easily, imav will understand, but Arya, Andy, nepcker, Goobi....well, they don't wanna deal with the technical jargon. Don't expect them to take part here, cos taking part means posting by there own experience with the internals of the system which is something Macboys don't do. Hack, *they don't even change the default theme to UNO *


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 12, 2007)

Hrmmm...not to veer off subject here, but apparently a bit of "kernel schooling" is needed...


MAC OSX: "Darwin" i.e. 1/2 of Mach kernel glued to 1/2 of BSD kernel.

Linux: Monolithic kernel i.e. performance, performance, performance.  Monolithic design is augmented by use of "modules" that can be loaded and unloaded to provide extended functionality.

FreeBSD: kernel within a kernel (as I understand it, that is) i.e. Mach kernel running "within" the BSD kernel.  Very similar to Mac.

Minix, QNX: microkernel

Windows: "Hybrid" i.e. microkernel architecture, yet everything runs in kernel mode, meaning the security advantages of the microkernel architecture are limited, but the performance is better.

OpenBSD: a "real" BSD kernel, modified to allow heavy encryption capabilities.



			
				gx_saurav said:
			
		

> *It is better to talk with Linboys about Technical things cos they have some knowledge. Macboys hardly have technical knowledge.*



My thought on this is that every group has "users".  Windows has it, Mac has it, Linux has it, etc... 

and each group has knowledgeable individuals who don't settle for "power user" status...they dig in and *learn* the operating system.

Where everyone falls in on those two categories is up to debate, but I think we've established public opinion of each other, at least.

And I have to agree with gx...typical Linux users are more technically competent than typical Mac users (but that doesn't mean that competent Mac users don't exist!)


----------



## goobimama (Jul 12, 2007)

Agree 100%. I don't know squat about the technical angle. And I've said this before, I don't want to know. As long as it works...

But as it goes, you will find that most Lusers (sorry, couldn't resist) know a lot about the internals of the OS cause they install linux cause of its Open source thing, and to install linux you need some sort of knowledge. I know linux has come a long way, but it still does have a sort of confusing nature to it. That's why they know more.

OS X on the other hand comes preinstalled and is dumbed down right down to the core. There are hardly any options (thank god for that!) so there's not much to know other than maybe the terminal (to the best of my knowledge).


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 12, 2007)

^^^ see I told u, Macboys can't get technical. If they do, they switch to Linux or Unix or Windows.


----------



## goobimama (Jul 12, 2007)

Hey just cause I'm not technical doesn't mean Andy and Aayush are like me. Those guys know a lot of stuff about the OS X. I'm just saying that you'll find many more mac users (and windows users) who aren't adept to its technology than a linux user who doesn't know about his OS.


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 12, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> I'm just saying that you'll find many more mac users (and windows users) who aren't adept to its technology than a linux user who doesn't know about his OS.


Having hung around at LinuxQuestions.org and a few other linux forums, I can say I've seen my share of Linux "lusers" haha

I've seen posts to the effect of this:

OP:  I tried to install Apache, but it won't install!
LQ:  What error are you getting?
OP:  It says "Unable to find suitable compiler...Please install a compiler!"
LQ:  That means you need to install a compiler...look for dev-util packages or gcc packages.
OP:  But I have the gcc-compat package installed!
LQ:  Yeah, that's a compatibility package.  It's not a compiler.
OP:  BUT IT SAYS GCC!
LQ:  ...

We get our fair share, too =)


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 12, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Hey just cause I'm not technical doesn't mean Andy and Aayush are like me. Those guys know a lot of stuff about the OS X. I'm just saying that you'll find many more mac users (and windows users) who aren't adept to its technology than a linux user who doesn't know about his OS.



No, you can't be serious. From day 1 I m telling arya to do some research before saying anything here about how Windows, PCs & Computers work.  his knowledge of technical things is like my knowledge of nuclear physics.

Andy, ah forget it. He bought a PowerPC Mac mini after Apple announced Intel Macs, I don't have to say how technologically good he is, cos well...its hardly relevent.


----------



## goobimama (Jul 12, 2007)

Aren't you like really good at Nuclear Physics? Weird...I always thought you were the guy behind all those powers that those power-puff girls have...

Installing Apache on OS X = System preferences > Sharing > Click Start Web server. Done.


----------



## eggman (Jul 12, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> ]
> OS X on the other hand comes preinstalled and is dumbed down right down to the core. *There are hardly any options (thank god for that!) so there's not much to know other than maybe the terminal (to the best of my knowledge).*



What a great innovation apple did by giving less option,no customization.


----------



## iMav (Jul 12, 2007)

arre the same innovation tht the iphone brought by having no vdo recording ...


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 12, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Installing Apache on OS X = System preferences > Sharing > Click Start Web server. Done.


Just curious...were your Apache modules compiled statically or dynamically?  =P

And just to comment on this thread's main topic...I'd buy a Mac, if I had the money for it.  (I'd wipe OSX off of it and install Linux, but hey!  I'd buy a Mac!)


----------



## Michael Joseph Jackson (Jul 12, 2007)

But if Mac can't run frutyloops,its useless for me.


----------



## iMav (Jul 12, 2007)

even if it did its useless for me


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> even if it did its useless for me



Not that I have *much* experience with Macs, but given the review it's receiving even from it's supporters I don't think Mac and I would be a match...so I have to agree, iMav.  heh


----------



## goobimama (Jul 13, 2007)

^^ So this is it huh folks? Speaking without experience...

Seriously guys, there's nothing like OS X. I've seen the ups and downs of windows since 1992, and when I moved to OS X it was like....getting ice cubes in hell...

For instance, I can't get rid of this virus that has gotten to my Vista system....


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> ^^ So this is it huh folks? Speaking without experience...



I prefer to do things from the command line.  I prefer compiling software from source code to downloading some precompiled package.  I prefer doing things MY way, rather than some dictated methodology that some os vendor decided upon.  I prefer to do things "the hard way" because I learn more that way, and should something ever go wrong with my GUI system, I can fix it without asking stupid questions.  I prefer efficiency to eye-candy.

And above all, I prefer security to ease of use.

Sound like a match for Mac?

It's not much of a match for Windows, either...haha


----------



## goobimama (Jul 13, 2007)

You are absolutely right (in a totally non-sarcastic way). There's no way you gonna fit in to OS X where there's nothing to fiddle around with...


----------



## praka123 (Jul 13, 2007)

as far as window users are a majority,most dont care what other Operating Systems can offer.even if they are better and frees you from teh label of a theif.for eg alt OS:GNU/Linux or BSDs. 
pirate addicts/warez addicts(many windows users i can see) are mind locked by warez forums and antiviruses,antispyware,anti-*(may i say nurses for ur windows os)
with pirated windows OS(take india pls) and cracked softwares many users attained their Nirvana.this is what am pointing to.the greatest feature as of now with windoz is Piracy  even one of our forum members site got his pic and along with it the crack for Windows XP 
MAC users buy genuine.this is what i thought.but with *tainted* members here in the forum shows that mac too mm.. pirated 
I hope most MAC users are not.but with macintel that too woes 
When piracy is *done*.Windows also *done*.microw-soft too 
Let the mentality change.


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> You are absolutely right (in a totally non-sarcastic way). There's no way you gonna fit in to OS X where there's nothing to fiddle around with...



Exactly, that's all I was saying.  Someone mentioned that OSX is "dumbed down to the core", and I thought "ehh, that's not for me...I like to tweak stuff too much for that to be useful *for me*"

Wasn't putting down OSX...just saying it wouldn't fit MY needs.


----------



## goobimama (Jul 13, 2007)

> MAC users buy genuine.this is what i thought.


That's what I thought as well! When I first went into the apple store, they were like, don't worry about software (in sort of hushed tones), we'll take care of that. And then I look at demonoid.com, its loaded with stuff.


----------



## faraaz (Jul 13, 2007)

I thought Macs came bundled with iLife and the Office suites...what more do you need if you buy a Mac?? Photoshop maybe...if you are a multimedia pro...

And speaking of Macs, I actually wouldn't mind a Macbook Pro...runs on a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM (which I'll add) and a 256 MB NVidia 8600 GT...all in a sweet 15" shell that looks pretty hot...if only it cost like 40,000 less. 1.3 lakhs for this machine is robbery...


----------



## praka123 (Jul 13, 2007)

^^that is true.


----------



## Desi-Tek.com (Jul 13, 2007)

now all posts r displayed  after verification from moderaror?


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 13, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> I thought Macs came bundled with iLife and the Office suites...what more do you need if you buy a Mac?? Photoshop maybe...if you are a multimedia pro...



Mac comes with iLife, if you have an old Mac then you can buy iLife for $70 which is even less powerful then Neooffice.

Microsoft Office : Mac comes at an additional price.



> And speaking of Macs, I actually wouldn't mind a Macbook Pro...runs on a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM (which I'll add) and a 256 MB NVidia 8600 GT..*.all in a sweet 15" shell that looks pretty hot...if only it cost like 40,000 less. 1.3 lakhs for this machine is robbery...*



Yup, hot indeed as in temperature. But comon....just look at the UI, it looks so cool


----------



## goobimama (Jul 13, 2007)

> Mac comes with iLife, if you have an old Mac then you can buy iLife for $70 which is even less powerful then Neooffice.
> 
> Microsoft Office : Mac comes at an additional price.


Just proves what GX's words are worth. He's comparing a Multimedia suite to an office suite...

And does Microsoft office for Windows come for free?

There's loads of software for the Mac, Adobe's CS3 is just one of them. 

FYI, the Macbook Pro can be bought for like 1.1 lacs, official price is 1.18lacs though...

Btw, its also an LED display. I haven't seen it yet (will see it next week when the new MBPs arrive at apple store), but its supposed to look smokin'!


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Just proves what GX's words are worth. He's comparing a Multimedia suite to an office suite...



Isn't this entire thread something like "comparing a Multimedia suite to an office suite"?  Guaranteed, there's overlap, but you can't argue against Mac's niche in the multimedia industry and Windows niche in the business/office industry.


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 13, 2007)

^^^^ lolz...isn't that what the Mac vs PC ads show 

Yup, too bad LED Display & Santa Rosa came to PC long before it came on Mac. Apple is always behind PC in hardware technologies. They didn't even use SATA 2 till C2D Macbook pro 



> And does Microsoft office for Windows come for free?



Its not about Free, its about whether Mac comes with an Office suite. Answer is no

Windows OEM PCs usually come with MS office at a very low price then retail which you have a choice not buy.


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Apple is always behind PC in hardware technologies. They didn't even use SATA 2 till C2D Macbook pro



Yeah, but...but...Apple went 64 bit before PC's!  And look at the amount of memory you can get!  And look at the UI!  And...aww, forget it...

Actually, I find it ironic that the Microsoft Xbox 360 runs on IBM PowerPC processors and Mac is migrating to Intel...

Kinda like a weird "role-reversal"...


----------



## gxsaurav (Jul 13, 2007)

> Yeah, but...but...Apple went 64 bit before PC's!  And look at the amount of memory you can get!



You mean PowerPC G5 CPU with 4 GB RAM limit due to chipset limitations. Yup, Apple used a 64bit CPU first.

Oh wait, Windows XP X64 on Intel Itanium? Nope....no one knows this.


----------



## rocket357 (Jul 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You mean PowerPC G5 CPU with 4 GB RAM limit due to chipset limitations. Yup, Apple used a 64bit CPU first.
> 
> Oh wait, Windows XP X64 on Intel Itanium? Nope....no one knows this.



I didn't say they claimed to have done it *well*, I just said they claimed to have done it *first*...haha

Well, ok...they said "the world's first 64-bit *personal* computer."  My bad.  heh


----------



## tarey_g (Jul 15, 2007)

faraaz said:
			
		

> I thought Macs came bundled with iLife and the Office suites...what more do you need if you buy a Mac?? Photoshop maybe...if you are a multimedia pro...
> 
> And speaking of Macs, I actually wouldn't mind a Macbook Pro...runs on a 2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM (which I'll add) and a 256 MB NVidia 8600 GT...all in a sweet 15" shell that looks pretty hot...if only it cost like 40,000 less. 1.3 lakhs for this machine is robbery...


 
1.3 Lakhs !!! Grubble fnfslkjdhs mumble sldhioi sslsssjfi awk awk burrrr, 
Oh sorry Wtf , it was hard to digest !!

I just ordered a Dell Inspiron 1520 Notebook , this is the config




> *Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Processor T5250 *
> *Genuine Windows Vista**TM Home Premium* _(But i wanted ubuntu for obvious reasons)_
> *15.4" Widescreen WXGA Display with Tru life *
> *1GB Dual-channel 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM*
> ...


 

This costs me 53k including all types of stupid taxes. Even if you add a core 2 duo 2.2GHz processor (Customization options available) its 17k more. 1 gig ram is enough for me but 2 gig is better. I did not want vista but they didn't have option for ubuntu  . So considering this the 1.3 lakh price of the similar(not same) macbook pro is a insane loot. An this dell notebook comes in 6 different colours (even yellow , yuk ) so you dont feel like the part of 'Clone Army' like in the case when you buy a mac book pro. 

*img509.imageshack.us/img509/9314/sc001tb3.jpg

In the end i think i got what i needed at a fair price, may be i should have ordered a 2 gb module but hey the budget would have got out of limits. But i am happy with this purchase .

And , btw the customer care is excellent . They have a total 'Replace' warranty (yes in the case of laptop too) which is awesome. My friend has 2x24 inch Dell LCD Displays (i will post the pics, nice setup) , one monitor had little smudge so he called dell and within 10 day a replacement was at his doorstep. Awesome


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## goobimama (Jul 15, 2007)

Anyway, for what its worth, don't get memory from the company. They always overcharge. 1GB from the 'market' is really cheap nowadays...


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## tarey_g (Jul 15, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Anyway, for what its worth, don't get memory from the company. They always overcharge. 1GB from the 'market' is really cheap nowadays...


 
Yeah you are absolutely right.


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## goobimama (Jul 15, 2007)

And for what its worth (again), my iMac's keyboard had developed some 'hard' keys. Those keys which I didn't use quite often. So I asked my apple store how to clean it up. "Don't worry, I'll order a replacement". I'm not feeling a bit guilty, cause the keys are not even thaat hard. Though the guilt kind of vanishes when I think that I've paid 9k for extended warranty...


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## iMav (Jul 15, 2007)

hey tarey and goobi doesnt adding another ram or say any hardware on ur own and not from the company violate the warranty


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## faraaz (Jul 15, 2007)

Screw that...I am getting a Dell XPS M1210...or its equivalent next year because that's when I'm leaving for Switzerland & my MBA...

A 2.2 GHz C2D, 4 GB RAM, 160 GB HDD, 256 MB 7300 GS (I think..not too sure) in SUPER slim 12.1" body. FOr about 90 K...and I think it has a 1.3 MP cam built in too...

Going to wait till prices fall even more and they upgrade the graphics card options a bit...


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## tarey_g (Jul 15, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> hey tarey and goobi doesnt adding another ram or say any hardware on ur own and not from the company violate the warranty


 
Yes it does , i have 1 yr warranty (didn't opt for extended) and in this period i am not gonna upgrade the RAM . My case

I am just eager to test how the Nvidia 8600 M GT 256MB performs.


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## iMav (Jul 15, 2007)

wat happnd to ur old id sorry new id damn confusion


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## goobimama (Jul 16, 2007)

Well my apple store told me all I have to do is remove the new RAM before sending it back to apple, if the need arises.


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## iMav (Jul 16, 2007)

so in mac's case it does not violate the warranty ... good for u


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## tarey_g (Jul 16, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> wat happnd to ur old id sorry new id damn confusion


 
I am back on my 'old' id. Sorry for the confusion , i just made that id after my exams ended for some fun.



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> Well my apple store told me all I have to do is remove the new RAM before sending it back to apple, if the need arises.


 
Hey goobi , do you have to send back the Macbook ?


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## goobimama (Jul 16, 2007)

I have an iMac as well as an iBook. Most of the time one doesn't have to. Once my DVD writer wasn't performing well. They ordered a replacement. Right now I'm getting a replacement for my keyboard cause some keys have sort of become a little hard 

However, when the HDD gave up on the iBook, I had to send it back. I did get a powerbook as a standby during that time...was hard to let go.


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## infra_red_dude (Jul 16, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> so in mac's case it does not violate the warranty ... good for u


it doesn't void the warranty  in non-apple notebooks too provided the upgrade is a part of the package and a company certified ram is put in. the same apple wid apple too! i don't think u can remove the stock ram and put ur own ram (in the sense that u've got the ram urself)... and still it doesn't void ur warranty!


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## tarey_g (Jul 16, 2007)

infra_red_dude said:
			
		

> it doesn't void the warranty in non-apple notebooks too provided the upgrade is a part of the package and a company certified ram is put in. the same apple wid apple too! i don't think u can remove the stock ram and put ur own ram (in the sense that u've got the ram urself)... and still it doesn't void ur warranty!


 
Yes , thats the case. 

Dell's replace policy does not include sending product back to the company , you will get the replacement first , Then only you have to hand over the old/existing hardware to them.


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## spironox (Jul 22, 2007)

tell me when its over .. zzzzzzz


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## gxsaurav (Jul 22, 2007)

This will never get over


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## mediator (Jul 22, 2007)

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=500180&postcount=2


			
				gx said:
			
		

> lolz...this thread will go empty.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 23, 2007)

Hey goobi, If I have a PowerPC Mac with Mac OS X 10.4, & suppose now I buy a Macbook which already has OS X 10.4 installed, then how do I move all my files & settings from old MacOS to new one?

To move files, I can simply use some pen drive to move them. However, how do I move my files like Safari book marks, or iTunes settings & Library?

In Windows, I can simply use the "File & settings transfer wizard"

Well, this I have been using already, just wanted to share with everyone out there. *Andy told me about it here in the forum long time back.
*
If you are using a Mac, then to get a generic webcam to work, Use Macam. It is basically an Open Source compilation of drivers for various webcam chipsets & there is preety much a chance that your webcam might work.

My LifeCam VX - 3000 doesn't work properly though. I see the image, but teh colours are all washed out & highly saturated. Its support is under construction though.


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## goobimama (Jul 23, 2007)

*www.apple.com/macosx/features/setup/

Trouble-Free Transfer

Setup Assistant shows you exactly how to connect your old Mac to your new Mac, taking the worry out of migrating your network settings, user accounts, documents, photos, applications and more. One cable, four steps and you're done.

---------------

I've seen this at work. Just as advertised. No hassles, no settings.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 23, 2007)

Good Software, but its Apple , there is always a catch.



			
				Apple said:
			
		

> A standard FireWire cable (6-pin to 6-pin)
> Your old Mac must have Mac OS X version 10.1 or later installed
> Your old Mac must have built-in FireWire and support FireWire Target Disk Mode



So, buy a new firewire cable too which is rare compared to USB 2.0, & I wonder why it works only with Firewire?

2nd option is irrelevant. Whose using Mac OS 9 these days anyway.

What if the old Mac doesn't support firewire target mode? then what?

on the other hand,  in Vista..............


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## goobimama (Jul 23, 2007)

WTF is this? Most macs have Firewire ports. I don't know one which doesn't have. OS X, I mean common, you got to give them that as well.

And I suppose, all Macs that have a firewire port, support booting in Target disk mode. I don't think your hackintosh will do the same, but that's your problem. That's why a mac is a mac. 

Firewire, cause its so much faster than USB, especially when dealing with large amounts of data. Yeah, I've tried it. Same HDD, USB mode, and firewire mode. And anyone who's got a mac should have a firewire cable somewhere, cause I love this target disk mode thing. When my Windows networking is acting funny, I just boot in target disk mode, connect it to my firewire port on the PC, and voila!

I got to admit, I suck when it comes to network configuration.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 23, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> And I suppose, all Macs that have a firewire port, support booting in Target disk mode. I don't think your hackintosh will do the same, but that's your problem. That's why a mac is a mac.


Yo, I am not concerned with Hackintosh here 



> And anyone who's got a mac should have a firewire cable somewhere


This is the wrong part. Old Macs have Firewire 400 which is slower then USB 2.0. All I am saying that Apple should not have restricted it to Firewire only cos this feature can also work over USB


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## goobimama (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm talking about Firewire 400. It is faster than USB2.0 even though USB is 480mbps against firewire's 400. Try it out sometime.


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## gxsaurav (Jul 23, 2007)

I have tried it, Firewire is P2P based, so transfering one big file is faster then USB, but transfering many small files is even slower then USB 2.0


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## cooldudie3 (Jul 25, 2007)

wat happened to that guy on the first page that said this is non- maturity?


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## spironox (Jul 29, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> lolz...this thread will go empty. Enough of flame wars,  I don't wanna get banned again...so I will prefer pointing out pros & cons in Mac in that thread




gr8


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## gxsaurav (Jul 31, 2007)

Just wanted to show something 

*img260.imageshack.us/img260/3356/vista1nt8.th.jpg

* Guys, trust me, this is Windows Vista . hack....we can customise it like whatever we like.
* 
Once I started to work like this I came to realise that how much Mac OS X needs Expose. Due to its window management system Windows Vista has no need for Expose. Good thing I had both FlipTab & Instant View in Vista.

I was also missing Zoom of Mac OS X, again....something only required in Mac OS X & not on Windows. Windows Vista has its own better Window management system due to which we only need one Window of one app to do what ever we need.


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## tarey_g (Jul 31, 2007)

Even if we dont really need expose in windows, still i like expose's functionality.


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## iMav (Jul 31, 2007)

i agree expose is required on a mac coz u dont hav everything on a taskbar or watever apple's calls their bar

and man thts a neat desktop ... btw i wonder can i make my os x look like windows hmm ... no but guess wat windows can be made to look like its evil cousin


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> and man thts a neat desktop ... btw i wonder can i make my os x look like windows hmm ... no but guess wat windows can be made to look like its evil cousin



Windows can be made to look like anything. Windows, Mac OS, KDE, GNOME, QNX, NeXT, BeOS.....what ever u like or something completely different with 3DNA desktop

Linux can be made to look like anything the user want. GNOME, KDE, Windows Vista, XFCE, Enlightenment 17....

Mac OS can be made to look like..............................................
......................................................................................
wait, still trying to figure out.................................
just wait.........................dang, Mac OS X can be made to look like Mac OS X 

I thought of using the same icon theme I m using in Mac OS X on Windows, but then I dropped the idea....if I would have done that, Arya would have come here & said " U r lying, thats original Mac OS X"

But, since El Jobos said Mac has a good UI, be it.Thou shell not customize, all hail Jobs, his personal style be in command.....all Mac should look the same...communism prevails.


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

Try as you might you will not be able to fool anyone with that cheap hack of yours. FlyakiteOSX can do that and more. Anyway, you won't get the functionality that is the title bar in Windows. Its always "windows".


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Try as you might you will not be able to fool anyone with that cheap hack of yours.


Yup, very cheap  = Free softwares to make Vista look & work like Mac OS X. 



> FlyakiteOSX can do that and more.


Yup, on Windows XP no vista.



> Anyway, you won't get the functionality that is the title bar in Windows. Its always "windows".


A better way to do things. 

I wonder if I should write a complete tutorial of converting Windows Vista to look & work like Mac OS X. Well...too much to write, & its obvious for some other fellow members to do it.


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

Here's a small amateur screencap that I've done and uploaded to youtube. Its around 800kb with a poor video quality n all. Bout 30 secs weighing at 800kb or so.
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx4HrhkpLXk
It goes like
I'm working on a file in textedit, when I realise I need to use a more powerful software like word. Just drag the file into word, and wazzack, its there.

Then I want to copy it to the pen drive, just drag it to the pen drive, wazzack, it pops out, and leave.

The third part is where I open a file, but don't know its file location. Just command+click and...scazzack....i'm there.

I hope I haven't screwed up somewhere...


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

I would like to tell the Windows Equivalent



> I'm working on a file in textedit, when I realise I need to use a more powerful software like word. Just drag the file into word, and wazzack, its there



If it is a RTF file then drag & drop to Word icon. If it is TXT file then Word whether on Mac or Windows doesn't supports txt drag & drop. Copy & paste or open in Word file



> Then I want to copy it to the pen drive, just drag it to the pen drive, wazzack, it pops out, and leave.



If you have the file in Explorer in front of you, then right click & send to Pen drive

If not, Start->enter file name in search box, u will see the file in start menu, right click -> sendto pen drive


> The third part is where I open a file, but don't know its file location. Just command+click and...scazzack....i'm there.



Again, search for file name

Some other videos at the page of goobi's video. 
*
Fun with Vista - The Real "Wow"


*


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

Where is the word icon in Windows? Its in the start menu, cluttered on the desktop which one has no access to while one is "maximised", or in the quicklaunch, where you can't drop a file. And on OS X, you can force an app to open ANY file, by holding command. 

2. I'm talking of a file which is open. The other day I was working on a doc in photoshop, when my friend came along and said "save this to my pen drive". I just dragged the icon to his drive and he was like "whaaat! holy mo..."

3. Of course you can search for the filename, but isn't this much easier?


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Where is the word icon in Windows? Its in the start menu, cluttered on the desktop which one has no access to while one is "maximised", or in the quicklaunch, where you can't drop a file.



You means something like what this video shows.....hmm...its there since....i don't know, Word XP & WIndows XP maybe maybe . Eye opener time...we can drag anything to anywhere in Vista.

*Dragging & dropping a file to Word icon in Startmenu 692kb

Dragging & dropping a file to Word icon in desktop 500 KB
*
The speed of application launch is slow due to high cpu usage when recording the video



> 2. I'm talking of a file which is open. The other day I was working on a doc in photoshop, when my friend came along and said "save this to my pen drive". I just dragged the icon to his drive and he was like "whaaat! holy mo..."



When a file is open in Photoshop, u see the file name don't u on the toolbar? Write that in the start menu then right click on the file & send to ->pen drive. Both methods are fast, u do it that way, we do it this way.



> 3. Of course you can search for the filename, but isn't this much easier?



Again, a good feature but I am not missing it here . I know where my files are


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

1. Well you're dragging it from an explorer window. Not the same thing. I'm talking about, if you don't like how a video plays in VLC, just drag it over to quicktime and there. 

2. You have to admit OS X's method is better. Not that Vista's way is bad or anything, its good as it is, but OS X has an edge on that one. Btw, my Vista's search never works properly (I've mentioned this before. Maybe a bugfix, but what can I say.)

3. Of course you won't miss it. Its not there.


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## djmykey (Aug 1, 2007)

Hello all of ya out here, just came here to add my 2 cents. I have installed mac mini's iMac's and also MacPro's in my office. And lemme tell ya nothing comes this close to bling of the comp exterior look when it comes to Mac's. But then when I boot the pc and I see big big icons I'm disappointed. Somehow it might be me that I am not that comfy with Mac. Given that I am using Windows for like 8 years and I just touched OSX for what like 5-10 times, but still Mac OSX is way different from Windows. So bottom line is comparisons apart try and get the pluses from each os rather than flame one another.


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> 1. Well you're dragging it from an explorer window. Not the same thing. I'm talking about, if you don't like how a video plays in VLC, just drag it over to quicktime and there.



Well, I would say it is a indeed a good feature. However, even with a 3rd party addon this isn't something to miss in Windows. We have search but Mac OS X method is more convenient



> So bottom line is comparisons apart try and get the pluses from each os rather than flame one another.



We tried showing it here but we were bashed & told that we are jealous that we can't buy Apple product 

If there is a feature in Vista which Mac copies (Windows shadow copy, backup) or some feature in Mac which Windows Copies (Chess) then it is nothing more then adding a compelling feature. But alas....agar macboys ko samajh main aa jata to usko job mil gayi hoti


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

> Well, I would say it is a indeed a good feature. However, even with a 3rd party addon this isn't something to miss in Windows. We have search but Mac OS X method is more convenient



All I wanted to hear 



> Somehow it might be me that I am not that comfy with Mac



It is different, yes. Though it took me no time to get used to it, must be cause I wanted to get used to it, but for my dad, it was difficult at first. Then I told him, leave that windows baggage behind. You have to start fresh. And a week later he was zipping through it.


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

> All I wanted to hear



On the other hand, we have tree view in Windows, so draging & dropping files from anywhere to anywhere is very easy unlike mac where u have to drag & file, keep opening the spring loaded folders etc


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

Although I've expressed my distaste for the tree view, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. And anyway, that's besides the point. I'm talking about open documents here. One more thing. How does one drag a file on the desktop to say E:\myprowncollection\good_ones ? Seems to me an impossible task? This is without any explorer window open.

But can you drag and drop files selected from multiple folders? I think not.


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## gxsaurav (Aug 1, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> How does one drag a file on the desktop to say E:\myprowncollection\good_ones ? Seems to me an impossible task? This is without any explorer window open.



You can't do this in Windows without explorer. This is a Mac only feature. Microsoft has taken the titlebar icon thing in Vista away, so u either save or at the new location as we don't have spring loaded folder, or with explorer cut->paste



> But can you drag and drop files selected from multiple folders? I think not.



You will need some kind of drap stack for this which isn't there in OS X either


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## sakumar79 (Aug 1, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> You will need some kind of drap stack for this which isn't there in OS X either


In Windows, there is at least one freeware called Piky Basket that adds this functionality - see *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?p=557204

@Kenshin, I think you misunderstood goobimama' question... He is talking about dragging a file from the desktop and dropping it into a folder without explicitly opening Explorer or My Computer... I dont think it is possible in Windows, but I might be wrong... However, Ctrl+X followed by opening My Computer and navigating to desired folder followed by Ctrl+V might be similarly fast... There are advantages and disadvantages to Win way and Mac way (as I am visualizing it)... In Win way, it requires either Ctrl+X or Right-Click->Cut to be first done, and then followed by Paste, which is simplified in Mac... On the other hand, if you have a large file and you mis-drop it in the wrong folder, I am not sure how much time will be lost setting it right in mac... Perhaps goobimama or aryayush can say what would have to be done...


Arun


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## goobimama (Aug 1, 2007)

> You will need some kind of drap stack for this which isn't there in OS X either


Do a simple List view, and expand the folders. You can select from any number of folders and do a drag and drop.

@Arun: I'm not sure how one will drop the file in the wrong folder. You leave the button only when you are in the folder you want to be. If you go an extra step deeper into the folder tree, just move the mouse out and it comes right back out. And after dropping the file in, it conveniently closes the finder window (in a "look at the UI, its so cool!" way).

I might do a small time video on this, not sure how many view them though..


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## sakumar79 (Aug 2, 2007)

@goobimama, after continuously using the mouse, occasionally I tend to miss clicks or mis-drop while dragging... I particularly face it after sessions of intensive gaming... Sweat in my hand makes matters worse, so usually, I first wipe it off, but it doesnt eliminate the problem...

Arun


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## gxsaurav (Aug 2, 2007)

> He is talking about dragging a file from the desktop and dropping it into a folder without explicitly opening Explorer or My Computer



Tell how u do it in Mac Without opening Finder 

Usually I don't have files on my desktop, just an icon for resycle bin. If I have to move a file I am working on, then here in my case I know where the file is, I just cut paste or simply search for the file name in Start menu, from where its is right click -> sendto


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## sakumar79 (Aug 2, 2007)

BTW, talking about Desktops, I noticed that in the Fast Track to Macs, there was an error - You were comparing Mac equivalents to Windows, you compared My Computer to Desktop... Actually, Desktop is Windows equivalent of Mac Desktop, not My Computer... They are completely different...

Arun


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## iMav (Aug 2, 2007)

thats way of spinnin a flaw .... the problem with mac os x desktop that all ur drives are shown on the desktop unlike in windows where everything is under 'my computer' so our salesman feels satisfied in calling the mac desktop as windows' my computer  its a stupid UI flaw on jobs' part


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## gxsaurav (Aug 2, 2007)

sakumar79 said:
			
		

> You were comparing Mac equivalents to Windows, you compared My Computer to Desktop... Actually, Desktop is Windows equivalent of Mac Desktop, not My Computer... They are completely different...



 You are not supposed to know how things work in Mac. Just look at the UI, it looks so cool.


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## gxsaurav (Aug 4, 2007)

Some more things I found & checked while "Working" on Mac, which I usually don't . While viewing a webpage, i wanted a paragraph to print or save as PDF. I selected a paragraph in Firefox & boom, there i no print or save as PDF option. Drag & drop then save as PDF. Wow, in PC, I just select the paragraph & print in IE 7


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## shantanu (Aug 4, 2007)

feels like GX owning the thread ..   where is the rival... oh sorry i mean the thread starter


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## gxsaurav (Aug 4, 2007)

This just in...*You cannot hide a file or Folder in Mac OS X.

*In Windows, since ages we just have to right click on a file or folder, go to properties & Select the "Hide" checkbox to hide that file or folder. After that if we need, we can simply select to show hidden files using Tool->Folder Option or just type the name of that File/folder in Address Bar.

*In Mac OS X, you cannot hide a folder or file at all*. Also, to show hidden system files, or hidden files by the OS you have to open terminal & use this 

defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE
killall Finder 

To undo
defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles FALSE
killall Finder

Lolz....Goobi, how do u hide your porn folder


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Aug 4, 2007)

shantanu said:
			
		

> feels like GX owning the thread ..   where is the rival... oh sorry i mean the thread starter



hope he has not accepted defeat...!!!! just keeping fingers crossed incase !!


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## iMav (Aug 4, 2007)

he is in hibernation finding some articles to copy-paste


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## gxsaurav (Aug 5, 2007)

Arya: Damn, Links still not found. How is Apple not making any new news these days . Damn, stocks are going down by 4%


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## iMav (Aug 5, 2007)

abhi uska link copy-paste karega that the stocks are doing strong some market analysers work is going to be copied and pasted here


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## shady_inc (Aug 5, 2007)

Today I got some free time from my studies and thought of playing GTA san andreas after a bit of surfing.But then i came across this thread and ended up wasting a good part of two hours reading it.IT IS AWESOME!!! 

Oh,and by the way...both MAC and Windows suck.

HAIL THE PENGUIN!!!


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Aug 5, 2007)

shady_inc said:
			
		

> Today I got some free time from my studies and thought of playing GTA san andreas after a bit of surfing.But then i came across this thread and ended up wasting a good part of two hours reading it.IT IS AWESOME!!!
> 
> Oh,and by the way...both MAC and Windows suck.
> 
> HAIL THE PENGUIN!!!


just what we needed . a linboy


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## iMav (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ uske jaise bahut aa k gaye


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## goobimama (Aug 6, 2007)

*was sick/bed ridden these past few days. still am so i might talk nonsensical things*



> Lolz....Goobi, how do u hide your porn folder


Hide? I got nothing like that to hide.

I do keep my documents safe in an encrypted DMG file though. No one's getting in there.

And if I want to avoid some casual prowling in a folder, then I just get info, and change the permissions to "No Access". Sure someone reverse the action and get full access, but most people don't know the know-how.


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## gxsaurav (Aug 6, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Hide? I got nothing like that to hide.



Kitna sudhra hua hai tu 



> Aure someone reverse the action and get full access, but most people don't know the know-how.



And I thought Mac were easy to use


----------



## Pathik (Aug 6, 2007)

offtopic: yipeee tomo maybe i ll get my hands on a iphone..


----------



## gxsaurav (Aug 6, 2007)

pathiks said:
			
		

> offtopic: yipeee tomo maybe i ll get my hands on a iphone..



Congrets....take snaps with it....make videos...


ah..shux...u can't


----------



## iMav (Aug 6, 2007)

and also send those vdos and pix to ur cell fone thru bluetooth 

ah! shucks u cant


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## tarey_g (Aug 7, 2007)

Just use other good phone to make vids of iphone.


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## Pathik (Aug 7, 2007)

ah shux that i can and i will..


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## goobimama (Aug 7, 2007)

> And I thought Mac were easy to use


That option is not the easiest to figure out on your own. If you click on a folder and it says access denied, would you (you=a regular idiot, and not _you_) think of trying to get some access permissions reset? You would obviously think there's a password to it or something and forget about it. And anyway, there's no snooping around of folks on my Mac save for movies...


----------



## gxsaurav (Aug 7, 2007)

Hmm....does someone here knows about XP/Vista's Filer/Folder security & permission feature


----------



## goobimama (Aug 7, 2007)

Yeah. Works the same way. Just saying that if there something that I really want to keep safe, I use an encrypted disk image. For everything else, there's folder permissions.


----------



## gxsaurav (Aug 7, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Yeah. Works the same way



Nope. Mac's way block access to the folder/file. Windows way blocks access for only those users or things u want it blocked from 

Windows file permissions in Vista/XP is 1000 times ahead of Mac.


----------



## goobimama (Aug 7, 2007)

Yeah it looks to be complicated so it might be more advanced.

But its not like the OS X only blocks permissions you know. There's a lot of options for groups, ownerships and such. And it is really simple to use. I had to struggle for ten minutes trying to figure out how to turn off the folder permissions in vista...

*img234.imageshack.us/img234/998/picture1vn8.jpg

Anyway, you show me something like Disk utility on Vista.....


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Aug 12, 2007)

off topic : guyz check out this thread of mine and please help me !!

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65290


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## goobimama (Aug 12, 2007)

^^ Yeah dude, that _is_ offtopic....


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## Pathik (Aug 12, 2007)

^^ He wasnt asking you to certify whether his post was offtopic or not !!!


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## yash (Aug 12, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> Yeah it looks to be complicated so it might be more advanced.



hah! I love sarcasm!


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## gxsaurav (Aug 14, 2007)

This just in...

Despite of having Native read only support for NTFS, Mac OS X doesn't mounts them in Finder. Now since NTFS -3G is out still....Leopard has no support for NTFS.


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## gxsaurav (Oct 6, 2007)

Time to resurrect....

Another place where Windows Vista pwns Mac OS X is Language support & compatibility. In both Mac OS X & Vista home Premium, there is native support for many languages like Hindi, Tamil, Spanish etc however there is no front end in Mac to add or remove them.

Like in my case I reduced support for any language other then Hindi & English to reduce the hard disk space in Mac OS X, but now suppose I want to get French support back, I can't do it without reinstalling the OS. Or using hacks to install using the Mac OS X DVD using Pacifist.

In Windows Vista I can simply use Language support Wizard to remove any language to reduce hard disk space & add whatever I like later 

Vista rox.,... 

*img250.imageshack.us/img250/2449/languagepacksetupqj3.jpg


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## iMav (Oct 6, 2007)

dude u really use OS X as ur primary OS ... i stopped booting into it unless i have to show some frenz what i got under the hood


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## gxsaurav (Oct 7, 2007)

Nah, I was just telling this after the orkut hindi font problem

From the last 2 days i m working on a C2D computer of a friend with a C2D E4400 CPU & 2 GB RAM. Have to say, Vista is about 100% faster then my PC, the real power of vista is not realised with 2 GB RAM, but it is realised with a faster CPU like Athlon64 or C2D.....E4300 + 1 GB RAM (or more if possible) looks like the cheapest combination for vista


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## goobimama (Oct 7, 2007)

What's with Vista's updates?

-If I set it to automatic updates, it restarts in the middle of the night and then my torrents get paused because it needs a password to login again. (and takes about half an hour to "configuring updates" before it can login again.)
-If I set it to download updates but I'll install them then it bugs me after downloading them.
-If I set it to notify me, it bugs me again.
-And if I set it to no updates, then it bugs me that it's not updating.

Btw, I run Vista on a C2D E4400 + 2GB RAM in the office. Still sluggish...just doesn't feel snappy.


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## gxsaurav (Oct 8, 2007)

so.....u want to disable automatic updates all together? Or want them to install without interfering u?


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## goobimama (Oct 8, 2007)

I don't care what happens, just that it should not bother me while doing so.


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## gxsaurav (Oct 8, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> I don't care what happens, just that it should not bother me while doing so.



Open Windows Update, Click on "Change settings" on the right hand panel, click on "Install updates automatically", & select a time. Obviously when it is downloading updates for some time your torrents will go slow....what else do u want? Doesn't your torrents stop working in Mac when Apple software updater starts to download.


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## sakumar79 (Oct 8, 2007)

@goobimama, please explain clearly how Windows should update your system silently, and reboot silently making sure not to reboot when you are downloading at night? And what do you mean by "bug me"? Does it ask again and again after you have said that you will do it later or something?

Can you explain how Mac handles updating, especially with reference to those that need rebooting? 

In your case, the best way will be to disable the system advisor service which warns you about the insecurity of not updating, disable automatic updating, and do the updating at your convenience... But most people will forget, which is why MS gives all these choices...

Arun


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## mediator (Oct 8, 2007)

sakumar79 said:
			
		

> @goobimama, please explain clearly *how Windows should update your system [SIZE=+1]silently[/SIZE], *and reboot silently making sure not to reboot when you are downloading at night? And what do you mean by "bug me"? Does it ask again and again after you have said that you will do it later or something?
> 
> Can you explain how Mac handles updating, especially with reference to those that need rebooting?
> 
> ...


 U don't need to ask 'how' it shud do that, it already does that! Neways automatic updates as u can see is a null functionality included to make phun of windows users n in US etc anything done to a user's PC without his consent is illegal. I hope u know that!


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## sakumar79 (Oct 8, 2007)

@mediator, my question is not just about doing that downloading of updates silently, it includes rebooting silently making sure not to reboot when torrents download are going on... Also, if you argue that doing anything to a users PC without his consent is illegal, you will have to consider all the DELL, HP/Compaq, Sony, etc companies that install all "trialware" on the PC without your consent also as illegal, wont you?

Arun


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## iMav (Oct 8, 2007)

@mediator we all know abt it it happened and well thers nothing even the pope can do abt it .... goobi's problem is different as compared to the 1 u posted ... 

goobi my machine has never automatically rebooted .... yeah it does giv me a balloon that asks me to reboot but that is after every 4 hours


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## mediator (Oct 8, 2007)

arun said:
			
		

> @mediator, my question is not just about doing that downloading of updates silently, it includes rebooting silently making sure not to reboot when torrents download are going on... Also, if you argue that doing anything to a users PC without his consent is illegal, *you will have to consider all the DELL, HP/Compaq, Sony, etc companies that install all "trialware" on the PC without your consent also as illegal, wont you*?
> 
> Arun


 I guess all the embedded softwares, windows etc on the PC that come prepacked wud also be 'illegal' if u think absurdly like that!! Dont mind, but y dont u talk something sensible?

An average end-user simply removes that 'trialware' if he doesn't like that. How do u suggest he shud do the same for MS's updates? U think the little fellow shud do a little RnD on PC security n rootkit technology? 

Also if u r up-to-date with tech. news then u shud have known that many of those big names have decided to boycott that "trialware"/crapware" which I dunno how n why u termed its install as 'illegal'!! May be u wud like to enlighten us!

I dunno how it restarts silently. But it seems it downloads silently n yeah there's nuthing that pope can do abt it. It shudnt be called as a bug as MS does that deliberately. Its a crime to breach person's PC without his prior knowledge and then MS fanboys cry why MS gets sued.


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## sakumar79 (Oct 8, 2007)

If the average user can remove the trialware, he can disable automatic updates too. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know how to do it... Even if you look at the recent case where it was said that the update service of MS updated itself silently, you will notice that it was mentioned for those who disabled automatic update service, this would not happen...

Your wording of the previous post ("anything done to a user's PC without his consent is illegal") is vague enough to include the crapware installations by Dell and such companies as illegal... Can you tell me whether the user had the option earlier to not have the trialware at all in the first place? Even if they uninstalled it, it would leave traces of itself in the registry, etc... Only now some of the companies are deciding to remove the installation of such crapware...

Restart silently did not mean silently literally... You have to read it in the context of my post. It means that after the update, sometimes windows needs to reboot to make the updates take effect... Usually, it says that system will restart in 30 seconds and give option to postpone restart... Since in goobimama's case he had left it to download at night, he couldnt manually postpone it... So, it restarted without his intervention...

Arun


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## goobimama (Oct 8, 2007)

Oh yes. I've put the thing for 3AM to download. I've no problem with the bandwidth hogging, but it does show the popup telling me it's going to restart in like 2 minutes. I can postpone it, but if I'm not there then it restarts and whoopsie, it's the logic screen. 

If I turn the updates off, every five minutes I get a message "There is a problem with your security". I KNOW! I MADE THOSE PROBLEMS! But no, just goes on and on and on.

On the mac, if it has to restart, it asks for my username/password before doing anything, and if I turn it off, it just turns off like it should...


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## iMav (Oct 8, 2007)

@mediator ... with regards to the updates u can configure them whether u want to dwnld them automatically or u want to be informed that there are updates to be downloaded and u can download the 1s u want and if there is a certain update (such as dreamscene) which requires a in the updates' description it tells that u will need to reboot to use it ..... and the reboot just doesnt happen automatically (never) not even wen windows 'silently' update windows update .... it always tells u whether u want to reboot now or later .... it tells u after how long shud it remind u that an update requires a reboot (min 10mins max 4 hours) so keep postponing it after 4 hours ...


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## goobimama (Oct 8, 2007)

It also bugs me if I don't have an antivirus, if my disk space is running out (I have a small 2GB HD in there for small time stuff) and some other things i can't remember now...

And oh yes it reboots automatically. The prompt doesn't stop for me. There's a countdown timer on it, and the moment it reaches "0"...kaboooom!


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## mediator (Oct 8, 2007)

sakumar79 said:
			
		

> If the average user can remove the trialware, he can disable automatic updates too. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know how to do it... *Even if you look at the recent case where it was said that the update service of MS updated itself silently, you will notice that it was mentioned for those who disabled automatic update service, this would not happen...*
> 
> Your wording of the previous post ("anything done to a user's PC without his consent is illegal") is vague enough to include the crapware installations by Dell and such companies as illegal... Can you tell me whether the user had the option earlier to not have the trialware at all in the first place? Even if they uninstalled it, it would leave traces of itself in the registry, etc... Only now some of the companies are deciding to remove the installation of such crapware...
> 
> ...


 R u trying to say that updating the service itself silently is any different from getting other updates silently? R u trying for an MVP?

Why don't u ask ur relatives who know how to do stuff on MS-Office and simple installs to do maintainence of which services.msc and regedit is an integral part? Why dont u ask them to  disable the services without ur help? I requested u to talk something sensible! 

And my reference to 'silent' is what it is said in the article I provided! But it seems u r njoying twisting it n givin it a different meaning! If I dont want windows, then wud u call it as 'crapware'? 

I can argue similarly that it leaves the traces of binary 1s and 0s. So please talk sensibly! That crapware/trialware u called isn't breaching ur system. Now how can it, even when u removed it?   

About 'earlier', people earlier din't have much choice for OS also. U wanna say that installed windows was also illegal? Like I said, things r changing and options r being brought in. U can install OS of ur choice. Does that choice resides in windows updates?? The service updates itself silently n privacy gets mocked!

Can u stop the service etc from getting updated itself silently like the article explains so clearly with proofs?

Ofcors I dont want IE in windows and that stupid WMP. Will u call that crapware again?

As u can see MS gives literally nuthing out of box. Ur drivers,winzip,winrar,AV,firewall,anti-intection-ware etc all need to be installed. They gave a joke called disk-defragement instead. Everything is 3rd party and u pay 5000+ bucks for a 'crapware' CD that becomes workable only after a couple of service packs and updates r installed!!

I guess windows+3rd party that u r so fond of calling as 'crapware' is somewhat near to a desirable OS that can do anything functional n desirable. I still cant understand why u term it as 'illegal'. 

BTW, u can visit Nehru Place in Delhi and tell the vendor what all u want to have in ur PC. Options that is! If u dont like the crapware u can tell em at the shop itself that u dont want to have that 'crapware'. Can u knock the doors of MS to tell em the same?

Please dont confuse again. What I am talking of is privacy and u r talking bt options!! I feel sorry for ur comprehension skills, so dont feel that I'm insulting anyone next time. 



			
				imav said:
			
		

> it tells u after how long shud it remind u that an update requires a reboot (min 10mins max 4 hours) so keep postponing it after 4 hours


 Thats for goobi to reply! Neways I wud have appreciated if there wud have been an option called "Never" to bother!


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## iMav (Oct 8, 2007)

goobimama said:
			
		

> And oh yes it reboots automatically. The prompt doesn't stop for me. There's a countdown timer on it, and the moment it reaches "0"...kaboooom!


 wheres the timer ... where is my timer .... i will sue billy g .... wehre is my timer ... i have no timer .... oops OS X has timer ... not windows


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## goobimama (Oct 8, 2007)

What are you talking about? I'm talking about Windows Vista here. It HAS a timer which after running out restarts the machine. I'm not sure what OS X has cause i don't usually update that way, I prefer to download the updates I want cause I'm on a 56k dialup at home. 

Vista gives something like 2 minutes to choose the option after which it restarts... go sue Balmer...


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## gxsaurav (Oct 9, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> U don't need to ask 'how' it shud do that, it already does that! Neways automatic updates as u can see is a null functionality included to make phun of windows users n in US etc anything done to a user's PC without his consent is illegal.



It has been already told & clerified that it was for "Windows Update" which is a different update then the regular updates. Why r u twisting the facts?



> An average end-user simply removes that 'trialware' if he doesn't like that. How do u suggest he shud do the same for MS's updates?



In WIndows XP, go to Add/Remove program & remove the update which u don't want.

In Windows Vista, open WIndows Update -> Add remove updates. Simple, its already there but u talk like it is not.



> It also bugs me if I don't have an antivirus, if my disk space is running out (I have a small 2GB HD in there for small time stuff) and some other things i can't remember now...



Vista right? Disable Security center, there is an option in security center config



> Can u knock the doors of MS to tell em the same?



Why r u blaming MS for the crapware that dell installs?


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## mediator (Oct 9, 2007)

> It has been already told & clerified that it was for "Windows Update" which is a different update then the regular updates. Why r u twisting the facts?


The post was bt silent updates! And MS feels no shame in that area! U think its any different? So no twisting facts!



> Why r u blaming MS for the crapware that dell installs?


U also need to improve ur comprehension skills! Read again what I posted! Dell didn't install silent updates, crappy IE n WMP and disk defragement kinda jokes!! 

Rest of ur post => As u say......Yawn!


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## sms_solver (Oct 9, 2007)

These news will be officially the next week!

From a source within the company :

The next version of the Mac OS Operating System 10.5, codenamed "Leopard" is set for release this month October 2007. A transition has been made in the setup process and this is :

The installer wont check for Apple Hardware at install time, all you need to run "Leopard" will be ANY INTEL,AMD or PowerPC cpu that has 866 MhZ and the SSE2 instructionsets alongside with 512 MB Ram, supported Mainboard include Via,Intel,Asus,Dell,and others .

Willing Users will need a Nvidia Geforce 5200 or higher classed gpu, similar to the requirements of Windows Vista, to be able to get "QuartzExtreme","CoreImage" and "CoreAnimation" - a technique that turns the Users Desktop into a fully 3D accelerated place of fun.

With this decision Apple , who are no longer call themselves "Apple Computer" want to broadent he distribution of the Mac OS and grow marketshare.

The time seems right as more and more users are dissapointed with the last release of Microsofts OS, "Vista".

The transition took slowly place, as Apple began to switch from the Motorola PowerPC G4 and G5 CPUs over to Intel Pentium, since that day "Macs" are in hardware-termes are more or less standard PCs, just built into Apples designed housings.

The next "Macs" wont have the "TPM ( trusted platform module )" soldered to their mainboards, the only way for the installer to check for "genuine Apple Hardware", as well as this check is being removed from the Mac OS X itself.

Mac OS is a Operating System, based on FreeBSD - a Unix derivate - but comes with the Mac Interface, which makes the OS so simple to operate with. The various special effects of this interface require the CPU to have SSE2 support as well as a supported graphics-card. 

The Mac OS is finally free to run on any modern computer.
Expected release date of "Leopard" is October 26th.

*Source: GPL*


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## gxsaurav (Oct 9, 2007)

Wait, you mean Apple is releasing Mac OS X for all the computers out there? Cool....welcome to the world of driver incompatibility, Kernel Panic & uncompatible hardware Apple 

on 2nd thought, I don't think Apple will do it


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## azzu (Oct 9, 2007)

i cant belive it Post it in TECH news section


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## praka123 (Oct 9, 2007)

No way!will apple do that?no surprises.


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## yash (Oct 15, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> No way!will apple do that?no surprises.



ofcourse not! apple will never officially support installing its software on hardware other than its own.


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## Pathik (Oct 16, 2007)

Even i dont think thats going to happen..


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## gxsaurav (Oct 17, 2007)

This just in, Mac OS X is not made for Mouse-Less operation & provides pathetic accessibility options compared to Windows.

My Microsoft Wireless laser moue "broke" today, after I confused it with a hand granade & throw it at my friend , anyway...I m right now using my old Logitech PS/2 mouse which works fine in Vista, but doesn't work in Mac OS X.

Now I understand hardware compability issue, but here is the thing...I can work without Mouse in Windows using only the keyboard. I can map the mouse pointer to number pad arrow keys, make 7 & 9 left & right click on Windows but I can't do this on Mac. *If U don't have a mouse then U can't work on Mac OS X, but if u don't have a mouse u can still work very well in Windows* due to many keyboard shortcuts, or a simple thing like the tab key cycles through the controls like ok & cancel which Mac OS X doesn't support.


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## goobimama (Oct 18, 2007)

Of course you can work without a mouse in OS X...

Also, if an input device isn't present, OS X automatically turns on bluetooth and searches for mouse and keyboard. That is the level of integration. 

With OK, Cancel dialog boxes, you tab through the options, but the big blue glow doesn't move from the default box. Only a light halo will move around. Pressing Space selects it.

Also, if you've actually used a mac, you will understand that Command+D is for "Don't Save" and "Esc" is for cancel and such. Much better than tabbing through..

Woah! My C: was getting full, and I didn't have much stuff there. Checked all my program files and such. Couldn't find anything. Then I said "idiot, you got to use the disk cleanup". 

11.6GB space free'd! 11.5GB! And what was using up all this space? Well the temporary files were some 1.1GB odd, but the main hog was some "system error reporting dump files" or something like that. Just shows how many system errors I've had! 
[This is on the PC, not Mac..]


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Nov 27, 2007)

about mac users claim that their inteface is the best is wrong
Linux has awesome interface and its superb ! its far more beautiful then MAC !
if its all about beauty then change to Linux ! also you will get lots of apps for Linux !
after all apps make a comp useful or its a useless machine !


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## iMav (Nov 27, 2007)

grudgy i wonder y u havnt locked this thread im pretty sure u wudv got plenty of reports for this 1 too


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## Gigacore (Nov 27, 2007)

+1 for akshay

and did..... even the vista has good looks...

MAC concentrates only on look and feel and they do make good apps but, for which god sake?

yeah lock the thread


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## drgrudge (Nov 27, 2007)

a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> about mac users claim that their inteface is the best is wrong
> Linux has awesome interface and its superb ! its far more beautiful then MAC!


You are wrong! Can anything be compared to: 

1. Expose
2. Genie effects
3. Dashboard
4. Overall look of the windows
5. Beautiful icons and fonts
6. WTH, even my Firefox render sites beautiful. 
7. Press "menu" in the Apple remote and see the magic  

There might be more, I'm using Tiger and just a using Mac OS X for 2 weeks or so. 


Also I won't claim OS X has the BEST UI. *Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.** I loved the VSs in my Windows XP than the Aero of Vista. *


My Mac does everything I want and I've no intention of installing Windows or *nix in my MBP. I've never tried out *nix or plan to try in future (atleast on Mac) so can't really comment on the hyped UI of Ubuntu. 





			
				a_k_s_h_a_y said:
			
		

> if its all about beauty then change to Linux ! also you will get lots of apps for Linux !
> after all apps make a comp useful or its a useless machine !


No apps? You must be dreaming. While it's true I do miss 2-3 apps that I enjoyed on my Dell, otherwise you're wrong abt apps.


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## goobimama (Nov 27, 2007)

Apps _is_ what makes the mac! The apps that I've used on the Mac, there's nothing comparable on either end. 

@dr: As for your 7th point, wait till you see Front row in Leopard...


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## drgrudge (Nov 27, 2007)

^^ 
Yeah.. can't wait.   I never knew about Expose till you mentioned to me. Now I'm a big fan of Expose.

 I hardly play around windows. I move the mouse to the end and work around. Also no playing around with  + Tab.


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## goobimama (Nov 27, 2007)

> about mac users claim that their inteface is the best is wrong
> Linux has awesome interface and its superb ! its far more beautiful then MAC !
> if its all about beauty then change to Linux ! also you will get lots of apps for Linux !
> after all apps make a comp useful or its a useless mac



The way you type tell us just how beautiful Linux is...

Also, what do you mean if it's all about beauty then change to Linux? You mean to say Linux is just beauty without brains? If setup right, Linux has a lot of potential to kicking all the other players out of business.


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## MetalheadGautham (Nov 28, 2007)

in the '80s, someone said that if there were ww3 b/w us and ussr, india will wil in the end.

if apple and ms finish each other off with accusations and rumours, linux will win.


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## iMav (Nov 28, 2007)

ya and we're still waiting for the ww3 ... so keep waiting for ms and apple to finish themselves but trust both companies know how to keep themselves alive while killing the other and they both are well aware of the fact that their loss is OSSs gain so they aint gonna do anything to harm themselves trust me if it comes to that they will even join hands 

and linux ui is better than os x - the way i seee it linux is the mix between os x and windows the gnome and kde shells have taken almost what ever they could from finder and explorer and added a few things of their own and forgotten some basics too


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## aditya.shevade (Nov 28, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> lolz...*this thread will go empty*. Enough of flame wars,  I don't wanna get banned again...so I will prefer pointing out pros & cons in Mac in that thread



The second post..... And now this is the 759th I think.....


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## rocket357 (Nov 28, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> they both are well aware of the fact that their loss is OSSs gain so they aint gonna do anything to harm themselves trust me if it comes to that they will even join hands


  Kinda like M$ joining hands with Novell, et al?  M$ isn't going to join hands with anyone...rather, they wield their *legal* weight to intimidate and undermind potential competition, as if they can't stand on their own *technical* merit. 





			
				unknown said:
			
		

> M$ has come up with numerous innovations...unfortunately, their legal department is responsible for nearly all of them


  The Novell alliance basically states that M$ won't beat Novell's customers to a pulp when M$ finally figures out what 200+ patents Linux has violated.  In return, Novell gets better support for M$ technologies.  Wow...talk about a crock..   My take is that it echo's the old saying *Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer*  Too bad Linux is getting political (guess that's what happens when an OS gets close to mainstream status, eh?)...  IMHO the Linux community needs more champions like Red Hat that aren't afraid to tell M$ to take a hike.  





			
				iMav said:
			
		

> the gnome and kde shells have taken almost what ever they could from finder and explorer and added a few things of their own and forgotten some basics too


   linux ui?  Oh, you mean KDE/gnome?  You're missing a few in there, buddy...What about xfce, fluxbox, enlightenment, fvwm, evilwm, blackbox, ratpoison, etc... ?  Oh nevermind...this must be another *mainstream* argument...heh.  Scratch my last comment, then.  Gnome sucks, KDE sucks (well, ok...they don't suck if you're a mainstream user...  =).


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## MetalheadGautham (Nov 29, 2007)

iMav said:
			
		

> ya and we're still waiting for the ww3 ... so keep waiting for ms and apple to finish themselves but trust both companies know how to keep themselves alive while killing the other and they both are well aware of the fact that their loss is OSSs gain so they aint gonna do anything to harm themselves trust me if it comes to that they will even join hands
> 
> and linux ui is better than os x - the way i seee it linux is the mix between os x and windows the gnome and kde shells have taken almost what ever they could from finder and explorer and added a few things of their own and forgotten some basics too


 thats what you think... Do you know that your precius Microsoft and Apple borrowed their looks from Amiga OS?
And the similarity is only because the same group of developers work for multiple projects, and also because even MS and Apl copy other's stuff. Mac OS was a rip off of freeBSD, anyone knows that.

EDIT: I have nothing against MAC, Its actually good!


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## iMav (Nov 29, 2007)

we all know that come when u have something on topic to talk  39 pages and multiple such threads we know all that who got its look from whom who got which software from whom


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## praka123 (Nov 29, 2007)

Mac or Linux -choice is urs  UNIX rules 8)

 windows Vista is not at all worth!leave that gameshell  only game freaks care for it for dx10.123456789000000+ versions and not to say e-waste called graphics card


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## iMav (Nov 29, 2007)

ya rite say that in front of my frenz and they will pretty much feed u to ur cat


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## cool_techie_tvm (Nov 29, 2007)

Came across this interesting error message screenshot (of Vista). Its a bit confusing 

*regmedia.co.uk/2007/11/29/vista_error_message.jpg


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## ray|raven (Nov 30, 2007)

> *regmedia.co.uk/2007/11/29/vista_error_message.jpg


Roflmao.

I just found out that a error message can confuse you and make you laugh at the same time 

Regards,
ray


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Nov 30, 2007)

hey *goobimama* !

What's the FBKMA In Your Signature ?? is it some kind of Movement ??


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## praka123 (Nov 30, 2007)

FBKMA  -goobi cannot use it u know  and I am wondering what it stands for


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Nov 30, 2007)

^^ i think all elite fighters like gx should use it, even you . coz elites like imav and gigacore and goobimama use it
you are also elite warrior in the Great OS Wars


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## praka123 (Nov 30, 2007)

goobimama uses it 
 i am not a warrior i am a messenger to all the forum members and guests who may be likely to switch to FOSS and Linux.and u know...GNU/Linux is a community project it lacks ads although it is much superior to Windows Vista for eg.so i think it is my duty to let the world know what Linux and FOSS is.u dont care for it as u are claim not a warrior :downarrow:
It is the duty of every freedom loving humans to spread awareness about FOSS and to kill the monopoly of M$ evil.M$ is like AIDS.gov shud start FOSS awareness program to compat this M$ monopoly sh!t.  ok fine kid?


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## goobimama (Nov 30, 2007)

FBKMA rules!!!


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## infra_red_dude (Nov 30, 2007)

^^^ Oye Prakash, control yaar!


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## iMav (Nov 30, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> goobimama uses it
> i am not a warrior i am a messenger to all the forum members and guests who may be likely to switch to FOSS and Linux.and u know...GNU/Linux is a community project it lacks ads although it is much superior to Windows Vista for eg.so i think it is my duty to let the world know what Linux and FOSS is.u dont care for it as u are claim not a warrior :downarrow:
> It is the duty of every freedom loving humans to spread awareness about FOSS and to kill the monopoly of M$ evil.M$ is like AIDS.gov shud start FOSS awareness program to compat this M$ monopoly sh!t.  ok fine kid?


 you sound like a priest


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## praka123 (Nov 30, 2007)

^I am.head priest of FOSS temple 8)  OK?


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## goobimama (Nov 30, 2007)

> coz elites like imav and gigacore and goobimama use it


Just realised, I'm one of the elites! Yipee!


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## a_k_s_h_a_y (Nov 30, 2007)

praka123 said:
			
		

> ^I am.head priest of FOSS temple 8)  OK?


lol



			
				goobimama said:
			
		

> Just realised, I'm one of the elites! Yipee!


and why did u remove it now ??

i should have made a screenshot of it .. you using that..! in siggy
but its ok


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## goobimama (Feb 10, 2008)

Sorry to bump this thread, but I thought I'd prove my long time forgotten point. That of windows updates. If you have those updates turned on, it automatically restarts. This one's from XP, but the same thing shows in Vista as well.


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## iMav (Feb 10, 2008)

Running any version of XP prior to Service Pack 2? Back up your registry, then add or change this key:

 HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ Software\ Policies\ Microsoft\ Windows\ WindowsUpdate\AU

If it doesn’t already exist, create the DWord value “NoAutoRebootWithLoggedOnUsers”. 

Set it to 0 if you want Windows to automatically restart, or 1 to prevent automatic restart. Then exit and reboot your computer. The result: As long as users are logged on the system, it won’t take matters into its own hands.

rone ka nahi re no matter how big linux communities are windows has a much bigger community (its the whole wide world)


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

iMav said:


> rone ka nahi re no matter how big linux communities are windows has a much bigger community (its the whole wide world)



The same could've been said about IBM in the 80's...Competitors to IBM viewed everything as a lost cause because IBM had a much bigger community...I mean, gee...it was the *entire* world!!... 

Fast forward a few years...where's IBM now?  Well, if it isn't a business mainframe or supercomputer, it likely won't be from IBM.  Nowadays the whole world is run by Wintel.  But for how long? 

I find it cute that Microsoft fans are so comfortable with their *desktop* market share...and I find it even funnier that Linux fanatics keep preaching of impending overtake.  For all we know, some college kid may write an OS that takes them all over...and don't think it *couldn't* happen because history has shown us otherwise. 

A nice closing thought: 
*www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp 
I find it interesting that Firefox has gained that much ground...I mean, I thought Internet Explorer was used by the whole wide world!  heh


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

ya ya we ve been hearing the linux take over since ages; come back when it happens till then ....


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

iMav said:


> ya ya we ve been hearing the linux take over since ages; come back when it happens till then ....



ehh, I hope Linux does NOT take over.  My beloved OS would turn into a circus if all of the impatient, indifferent *users* out there turned to Linux.  Let them go to Apple...I hear Apple's good at caring for people who don't want to learn how computers work


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

iMav said:


> ya ya we ve been hearing the linux take over since ages; come back when it happens till then ....


as long as people are still as they are now, Linux can never take over. Linux can take over only the day a majority of the human population becomes smart, thinks on his own, has common sence and starts developing creativity.

There is something called self-importance in our linux developer community that prevents us from doing much more extra work just because doing so may help a n00b or two do something.

Linux is here to stay, but definitely not for all. Its only for the Enlightened.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

did u just say i am an idiot   jk...

even Apple and Microsoft themselves will not indulge in this fight, were there to be a debate! 

in my views, the only thing i am interested in is that the OS i use should supply softwares that I use excessively.

1) Tex typsetting tool (available in windows, MAC, Linux)
2) Fritz chess program (windows alone to my knowledge, u shud use wine to work on linux, but not yet done)
3) chessmaster (same reasons)
4) Visual thesaurus (awesome english vocabulary tool. I just cant live without it. I tried installing in linux using wine, couldn't)
5) Microsoft office (Mac also has it. And i dont have to point out the buggy installation using crossover office in linux)
6) visual studio (for MFC in VC++). (i dont know abt mac). I can alternatively learn openGL... I am just lazy to learn another totally new graphics related package...

I totally would go with linux if I can get to use these/equivalent (by standards) in it...

And, like it or not, iPod and iTunes SUCK. i invested 280Euros for an 80GB iPod to use only mp3 and mp4 format. Are you out of your mind? They must be crazy... Why wont they allow all formats??? FLAC is inadmissible, wav, avi every other format.. f**king waste of time and money...

Also, IMHO, MAC notebooks are definitely costlier than any other (even Sony Vaio), for *the same* configuration. I searched for 3 months reading magazine reviews, going to shops and enquiring the rates, analyzing the best deals... Apple MAC was never even close to cutting a deal!! Even this Apple Airbook, 1500$ for a slimmer notebook with no optical drive with a WIFI to connect to other PCs to install any program and only 2 USB ports!! But they already have mentioned that its useful for business ppl who travel in flights more often... (bla bla)... They mask the disadvantages with an innovative concept everytime!! business lunatics!
*"Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me"*

take it easy,


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

finally we are beginning to get more sane views here .... ipod a waste of money iv been saying ever since i plugged it into my pc (30gig video) and apple machines absolutely no vfm 

and mac book air the only comment that theyv got for u is "its not for u"  el jobso even said that too nyt if im not wrong


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

"its not for you" lolzzzzzzzzzz yeah..


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

legolas said:


> And, like it or not, iPod and iTunes SUCK. i invested 280Euros for an 80GB iPod to use only mp3 and mp4 format. Are you out of your mind? They must be crazy... Why wont they allow all formats??? FLAC is inadmissible, wav, avi every other format.. f**king waste of time and money...
> 
> Also, IMHO, MAC notebooks are definitely costlier than any other (even Sony Vaio), for *the same* configuration. I searched for 3 months reading magazine reviews, going to shops and enquiring the rates, analyzing the best deals... Apple MAC was never even close to cutting a deal!! Even this Apple Airbook, 1500$ for a slimmer notebook with no optical drive with a WIFI to connect to other PCs to install any program and only 2 USB ports!! But they already have mentioned that its useful for business ppl who travel in flights more often... (bla bla)... They mask the disadvantages with an innovative concept everytime!! business lunatics!
> *"Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me"*
> ...


First of all it is Mac. MAC stands for Media Access Control, a networking term. It's also a dead giveaway that the person has no idea about Mac OS X. 

Like it or not iPod and iTunes such? Seriously? Millions of people can't be wrong. The iPod+iTunes win because of the simplicity. Geeks should definitely look elsewhere for customizing the cr@p out of a music player. As for iTunes sucking, it might be due to your experience with the one on windows. It's slow, resource hungry, and there's nothing 'other' than iTunes. iTunes for mac is a sort of a way of managing your media. It's integrated throughout the OS. Something that Windows and Linux lack to the fullest. 

As for mac notebooks being costlier, yes, but only a bit. As for they being VFM, indeed they are. They come with the most advanced OS + iLife. The best warranty and support. And stunning build quality. Sounds like an advert I know, but it's true. 

As for the Macbook Air, it's a given that it's not for everybody.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

I am sorry for the Typo in an effort to emphasize. your orthography skills are exquisite and un-combattable.  

I just need a reason for "Why only mp3,mp4?" And its not a *music* player... it doesn't play it in any format.. its mp3/mp4 player. oops, did u just give up ur orthographical interests?? 

Well, even windows is one of the most used OS in spite of the allegations the MAC (oops!!) Mac ppl and the ones from linux make...it doesn't prove that it is the best!! 

more ppl -> best, is illogical. it just proves Apple's business tactics into brainwashing for a crap with its eye-candiness!!

*only a bit??* come on now... what does that bit mean? 1$?? *most advanced OS??* are you kidding me?? 

does it do distributed computing or what?? I have also used Mac (not laptops). iLife -> Illusion 

Warranty -> no idea if its the best
Support -> Unquestionably *The BEST*

your terms "stunning build","adanced OS","iLife" just seems like another Apple Ad to me. May be, you should try their advertising section!  jk

take it easy.


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> First of all it is Mac. MAC stands for Media Access Control, a networking term. It's also a dead giveaway that the person has no idea about Mac OS X.
> 
> Like it or not iPod and iTunes such? Seriously? Millions of people can't be wrong. The iPod+iTunes win because of the simplicity. Geeks should definitely look elsewhere for customizing the cr@p out of a music player. As for iTunes sucking, it might be due to your experience with the one on windows. It's slow, resource hungry, and there's nothing 'other' than iTunes. iTunes for mac is a sort of a way of managing your media. It's integrated throughout the OS. Something that Windows and Linux lack to the fullest.
> 
> ...


1. Firstly, about MAC and Mac, how in the name of dennis ritchie do you think everybody would be aware of an OS as difficult to access as Aple OSX ?

2. linux is a kernel for heaven's sake. Don't make me compare the darwin kernel to linux kernel now

3. regarding your media management in iTunes, as I said, Linux is for smart guys. So you are provided all the tools you need here. Just make something yourself that makes you comfortable. You preinstalled fans may find it hard to grasp, startling, and extreme, but its really easy. Linux is all about smartness and learning to do things yourself. A Media "Management" software would completely undo this meaning most of the time, and so will a GUI, hence many distributions come with the bare essentials only. Its really fun to configure things yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labour, as despite being easy, it gives a sence of satisfaction.

4. Macs only a "bit" costlier ? I beg to differ. Your iLife costs 3.8K. Even if I add that money to the cost of a non apple machine, I will still save a lot of money.

5. macs VFM ? Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Tell me, which configuration are you talking about ? Unless you are talking about Alienware Vs. Mac Pro, both of which are rip offs, you can hardly say that Macs are VFM. They are far from it. Even in US, they are nowhere near VFM. If I got Macs for about half their current prices in India, I might call them good VFM, but definitely not now.

6. Those other "extra' stuff you say we get from macs are not enough to call a mac VFM. I thought even Apple users knew that Apple != VFM.

7. MacBook Air Not For Everybody ? Ofcource its not. There is hardly a market for it when it comes to actual utility. Its utility is almost zero on average for most people.

Please Understand This: The only reason people go for apple hardware is because of Apple's rather good iLife Suite. Without it, there is hardly a reason to buy a Mac. There are other software too, but most have windows/linux alternatives. As for the UI, yes, I agree, that just like the *Idiot-Friendly* Asus Eee PC's UI was a major selling point, this too is a good marketing point. But its not a buying point.

@legolas: I only said that linux is not for *anyone* to use. Its made by certain people for use by like minded people, but its advantage is that, as proved by the Asus Eee PC, even Linux can be idiot friendly, but no window designer is going to bother with that when there are better things like functionality to worry about.

About MacBook Air:

*Its Not For You*... So what ? You are not showed that book up your face and asked to purchase it. It might not have utitlity as far as you are concerned, but why b!tch it? Several companies make products to break workd records in their labs. Intel made an 80 core processor, that cost 10 times the cost of 80 dual core processors to make. They made it for the sake of making it, and not for sale, which if offered, may have brought nothing at all to them. But Apple took a step further. They decided to offer one such a product for sale. Steve jobbs is an experimental kid of guy. Let him do what he wants, as long as it doesn't affect us. Why should you guys bother about it ?

About Idiot Friendliness:

Infact, even BSD, one of the geekiest OSes alive today, can be idiot friendly. Your RichBoy's favourite OS, Mac, is a living example for that. It was made out of FreeBSD's Code. And your Safari was made from Konqueror's code. Also, don't believe n00bs who preach that AAC was apple's codec, called Apple Audio Codec or something. Its made by the MPEG but adopted by apple. So is FireWire. Apple just use plain common sence in borrowing what ever is the best and building on it.


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

Okay I had to check wikipedia for orthography, nice word.

As for only using Mp3/AAC, well, Mp3 is an industry standard, and aac is their own proprietory format. AAC supports lossless audio, so that takes care of flac, wav and all others. I am personally yet to come across another file format in my day to day usage. 

Now the question about avi or mp4 is an important one. While mp4 is superior, avi (xvid/divx) is more commonplace and should have been allowed to be played on the iPods. 

As for Apple being expensive, give me a link for a sony laptop with the same specs as a Macbook Pro. The lowest you will get will be at around $1700 or so. That too with a crappy display, tons of crapware, and not to mention the horrible trackpads that PC notebooks come with. 

As for iLife, you can just use it for a minute and say it's useless. There has to be some time to get into the flow. After that, it truly lives up to it's name.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

*@MetalHeadGautam,*
I knew exactly what you meant reg. Linux. I use Linux and Windows (for the reason I mentioned earlier). I was just joking. 
*Its not for you* Even then, my concerns are (for argument sake) regarding the price for that air book, which is why I insist on ridiculing the Apple's tactical deals of masking all the disadvantages with the only good thing "slim" in the laptop. To sum up, strategy is adapted by every company. Apple is the *BEST*!!

*@goobimama,*
I did have a "computer networking" course in my electronics engg. to understand the MAC Vs Mac. I should have written it as *Mac* instead of MAC. True.
Yes, reg. mp3 i accept what you say. but still, after paying 280 euros, why do you limit my options?

avi is older, i accept again, what about mkv? What did they think I am going to do with 80 GB? 

As for Apple/Sony laptops, I have a Sony Vaio myself. So, I dont think I need to provide a link. Because, I settled for Vaio after not convinced with the price Vs configuration deal. If you insist, I will provide'em.

take it easy!


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## praka123 (Feb 11, 2008)

there are reasons unknown which makes mac users stick to it.may be eyecandy application superiority be one of them.

but NEVER say,mac is VFM  
Linux,will be a better choice for those who want to experience *NIX platform especially with compiz-fusion enabled distros like fedora or ubuntu


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

^^ 
Eh? 

I got my Mac for Rs 72k preinstalled with OS X, iLife and iWork. And a free 4GB iPod Nano. My friend is willing to buy my Mac for 75 grands. I gain 3 grands if I sell. Beat that if you buy a Windows PC. 

*Regarding iTunes*, I was also *****ing that I was missing Foobar2000 but as I used it, it's OK. I'm starting to like it. Never used iTunes in Window, so dunno how it would be performing in a Windows. 

*A word about Idiot Friendliness.* I see a lot of thread in OSS section "Newbie to Linux", "MetalHeadGautam Ubuntu queries" , "Trying & Learning Ubuntu. My Query Thread" , "Calling all Linux Experts: I've got a million questions...  ", etc... the learning curve is pretty steep in *nix. Do you see such things in the Apple Mac thread? Goobimama was there to help me when I first used my Mac but I just had a few questions here and there. 

Also for simple things you guys seem to use terminal/command line. Yeah, I'm **** scared of it but I don't miss anything. In the end, you are doing what others are doing with their PCs. 

You guys have to use a Mac for 2 weeks or so. Once a Mac user, always a Mac user.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

wait a minute, your friend knows you bought your mac for 72k and still he is willing to get it for 75k? is he in need of a laptop? sony vaio?? :d

even if he is not interested in sony vaio, tell me what he wants, i will buy it for some amt and add 50 euros and sell it to him... This is 1000 times better than fluctuating share markets! lol


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

You're comparing Vaio and a MacBook?  Except for the design (without the gay stickers "Intel **** inside" or "Crapware capable"), you're looking at a different species. It's easy to differentiate milk and water.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

My sony vaio wasn't the only proposal! 

I can get anything (the *best* Mac too!!). If I can get +50 euros on resale value.. why wouldn't I??

Are you sure, this other friend of yours isn't your split personality?  jk.

Anyways, What is different in the Mac book pro? They have Intel processor core duo, DDR2 Ram (2GB now), Nvidia card, firewire ports, usb ports, DVD writers, Webcam, 120/160 GB hardisk. I got all these for 1400 euros (still expensive compared to others), while Mac book pro was 1700 euros for lesser configuration... (both offered 1 GB at that time as maximum). I got it 1 year and 3 months back with 2 years warranty in Germany.
all these are the same. and you say, "except for the design"... so what else is significant in Mac books?

take it easy!


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## infra_red_dude (Feb 11, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> 1. Firstly, about MAC and Mac, how in the name of dennis ritchie do you think everybody would be aware of an OS as difficult to access as Aple OSX ?


Offtopic: Of all ppl whydennis ritchie??!!!  



MetalheadGautham said:


> 3. regarding your media management in iTunes, as I said, Linux is for smart guys. So you are provided all the tools you need here. Just make something yourself that makes you comfortable. You preinstalled fans may find it hard to grasp, startling, and extreme, but its really easy. Linux is all about smartness and learning to do things yourself. A Media "Management" software would completely undo this meaning most of the time, and so will a GUI, hence many distributions come with the bare essentials only.


Lets face it! Linux is not for Pros in multimedia. It is just not ready yet. A person who has spent years learning something like Premire or of the likes (basically from the multimedia stream) won't read documentations and compile stuff by him. Or rather even download a binary package and instlal it. This applies even to the average, not-so-code-monkey user.

So what does he need? He needs a computer which is fast, doesn't bother him with OS and drivers install, which has one click install for these kindsa stuff and has everything readymade. Would you call him an idiot or retard just coz he can't read the docs and compile by himself???

He will surely settle for Mac. Why? 1) Apple optimizes the OS for its hardware since both are built by them. 2) It comes preloaded with OS and drivers so no probs regarding finding that "tweaked driver" which will give him those "extra frame rate" 3) He just uses the .dmg images to install. 4) He doesn't wanna be bothered about updating his "anti-virus" and stuff.

So for a person like him those "extra grands" about which we crib about is recovered by getting these things by default. Yes, for a home user Macs are costly, since we are so used to getting the "free version of Windows". I'm not justifying the cost of Macs but trying to ponder over the piont, why would a _Pro_ prefer Mac over others.

So when it comes to Linux, companies don't wanna spend time and money on developing something which they may not be sure of being used by the whole community and people will not adopt Linux just coz these multimedia software don't exist for this OS. Its a deadlock!!! So what is the solution?



MetalheadGautham said:


> Its really fun to configure things yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labour, as despite being easy, it gives a sence of satisfaction.


Agreed! Cent-per-cent true  And sometimes that can even go upto the extent of beating the satisfaction when getting laid!! 



MetalheadGautham said:


> Please Understand This: The only reason people go for apple hardware is because of Apple's rather good iLife Suite. Without it, there is hardly a reason to buy a Mac. There are other software too, but most have windows/linux alternatives.


What are you saying man!!! People buy Macs for iLife??!!  



MetalheadGautham said:


> ...even Linux can be idiot friendly, *but no window designer is going to bother* with that when there are better things like functionality to worry about.


Excuse me.. but I am on a mission to haf a good default UI for Linux! Its that at least one of the interface designers is bothered but the people in the development team don't give a damn about it! And that is what I am sad about  This approach is definitely not going to help anyone!



MetalheadGautham said:


> About Idiot Friendliness:
> 
> Infact, even BSD, one of the geekiest OSes alive today, can be idiot friendly.


Correct! What is idiot-friendliness??? Install FreeBSD or Gentoo on your hardware, install all drivers, all codecs, plugins, throw in a good looking UI and there this is one of the most idiot-friendly computer!!

It all boils down to hardware, drivers, commonly used pre-installed packages and with all these even something like SourceMage (heard about it??? its one of those "darker" distros!) can be the most idiot friendly distro!


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

legolas - 
Ohh yeah. Let me see... 

- MacBook Pro features  LED backlit screen. The screen is stunning and environment friendly. Honestly I'm yet to come across a better screen in a Laptop. 

- Apple Remote. I don't it (the remote) comes with Vaio. 6 keys and beautiful. You can control FrontRow/AppleTV, Keynote and apps (with a help of another software)

- Also being one inch thin (less than the size of 3 CDs stacked together) and 5.4 and 6.8 pounds, respectively, the 15 and 17″MacBook Pro models are among the thinnest, lightest notebooks. I'm not comparing the Ultra thin segments. 

- Keyboard backlit. Looks stunning and I make good use of it. If you're staying in Hostel, Aircraft or Sharing accomodation, you'll understand it's use. 

 - The best Trackpad. It can detect if you have one finger or two (when we do the right click and scrolling) and it ignores unintended touches. Now with the MBA, we're seeing iPhone like functionality. Guess it might come to MacBooks/Pro as well. Almost all of the Windows PC trackpad are bad and becomes smooth with 3-4 months of usage...


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

grudgy please do not use dell as a standard for windows based lappies


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

I accede to the points 1,2,4. They are really cool features. Especially point 1. I just read some reviews. I totally agree. Personally, I don't see a point to use remote for laptop... Still its worthy if it comes along. Keyboard backlit, also a really cool feature.

best trackpad -> i really dont see a point... as i have had no problems so far.


But, look at this. I just configured a Mac Book pro 15 inch with 2.1 Ghz processor, 4GB ram and 250GB hardisk (it was the maximum) and it came to 2924$ (nothing else changed from the default 1999$, memory from 2 to 4GB was 700$ and hardisk from 120 to 250 was 250$)

Now the sony configuration.

1) Monitor LCD only -> not as good as Mac's agreed. sony intel processor 2.1 Ghz ( of course core 2 duo with L2 = 3MB cache). Apple doesnt tell anything abt L2... so, i don't know.
2) 300 GB hardisk
3) comes with 4GB (2 * 2GB installed)
4) 6.1 lbs -> Unaltered Mac 5.4 lbs, may be with RAM and hardisk, it comes to max of 5.6 lbs or 5.7 ( still better)
5) *Blueray* read/record along with DVD writer
6) Video Ram 256MB -> Apple 128 MB (for the configuration I clicked)
7) monitor resolution sony 1280*800 < 1400*900 Mac

price: Sony 2200$
        Apple: 2900$

Somehow, I dont see a good compromise for the eye-candy screen they provide... Its the only catchy feature here... because, the weight is not going to be a problem most of the times... you are not working by carrying it in ur hands... 

Mac has real cool features. But still its not worth the price they offer is my claim! I am really impressed with the LED backlit display and its advantages, but it is not worth the 700$!


Edit:

I just saw this another configuration. This also is worthy of comparison.

Apple MacBook 17 Inch with 4GB Ram and 250 GB hardisk (again its the max) and processor 2.4Ghz (default) with monitor (default)... everything else default for that matter is *3650$*

Now Sony Vaio:

1) 17 inches, 2.5 GHz core 2 Duo Intel, *L2 6MB Cache* (Apple not specified)
2) 1080p HD resolution (1900*1200) against 1680*1050 (Mac)
3) Blueray read/record, also DVD and CD capable
4) 4GB (2*2GB)
5) Nvidia Graphics card -> 512 MB in sony, 256 MB in Mac
6) 400 GB (2 * 200 GB) against 250 GB
7) 8.4 lbs > Mac obviously
Other things including camera, bluetooth, Lan, Wlan co-exist. not discussing abt those.

Sony price: *3300$*

Now, advantages in Mac, display and weight. But if you notice sony vaio's here, the resolution is higher with 1080p resolution... 

If you compare the offers from sony in this regard with blueray, 512 graphics, 400 GB.. I would rather live with out the remote and keyboard which lits when there is dim light... (I have really not found any difficulty in typing in absence of light for the monitor sheds the light on keyboard even then).... 

Again... Mac has cool features.. Is it worth the price??? for that crappy configuration with cool monitor is it worth the 350$??
It comes to *3750$* (extra 100$) for the highest resolution, 1900*1200 (i guess). (in which case the difference is 450$).

*Question:* What does *Mac's Superdrive* mean??? Is it something other than a *DVD drive?*

Now, are you saying windows is so much screwed up that even with this configuration, Mac OS X will still be faster?? 

Regarding MBA iphone like functionality, it looks stupid to me because, for browsing thro pictures as we do in iPhone, you have to place 3 fingers it seems... Whats with these number of fingers to be placed on the touchpad..??


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

> but NEVER say,mac is VFM


What the! What exactly is value for money? Is it the 'cheapest'? No. Value for money means you get what you pay for. And in the case of the Mac, it totally is. I would be hard pressed to find a desktop that is completely silent (yeah, my external drive makes a noise while the iMac is dead silent). It has yet to crash on me. No viruses. *No configuration *(yeah, it's fun in the good ol' days, but when it comes to work, configuration means money wasted) and so many other things. VFM all the way.



> the vaio thing


My friend went to the States. Asked me what laptop to buy. I say Macbook Pro. He buys a vaio. Comes back to find out it cannot run XP. Sony has made it very difficult to run XP. A lot of his sound software doesn't run properly in Vista. The trackpad is horrible. The display is just WXGA (1280*900) for a 15.4" display. Now that's bad (and very common among sony laptops). He sells his Vaio. Going back to the states. Will pick up a Macbook Pro. 



> wait a minute, your friend knows you bought your mac for 72k and still he is willing to get it for 75k?


A Macbook Pro costs 1.04lac in India. So 75k is a pretty sweet deal. 

Now what's this thing about Linux boys thinking that the Mac is only about eye candy? So they all they brag about is compiz fusion and beryl an whatnot. It's not about burning windows down. It's not about making the desktop feel like jelly. That's not productive. It's distracting. You know, my Windows XP windows also go like jelly when I don't install display drivers. 



> Yes, reg. mp3 i accept what you say. but still, after paying 280 euros, why do you limit my options?
> avi is older, i accept again, what about mkv? What did they think I am going to do with 80 GB?


What's the problem with Mp3? The only other format that could be sort of common is WMV, and that plain sucks. So they have a lossless format for ripping CDs. The most common format, Mp3. And AAC which has better compression than Mp3, but is for forced upon. 

As for MKV, that is plainly a format for pirated content. Also, it's basically an open source copy of h264 which the Ipod plays pretty well. Sure, it's just the means and should not be tagged as an end, but that's the reality. And Apple has to play nice to all the music/movie studios out there.



> I configured


Oh please. Don't do the upgrades from Apple! Everyone knows that Apple overcharges for RAM and Hard drives. That is like just plain stupid to do so!


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

MKV is for Pirated content :-O I am surprised. Open source means for pirated content?? I dont understand your point. 

How else do you suggest I get the price for the same configuration for Mac. Could you please tell me the rates you would buy for the configuration I mentioned.

Sony Vaio's track pad is bad??? Holy crap!! I think you would say everything and anything to prove ur point reg. Mac.
Sony laptop has nothing to do with drivers for XP. I used XP before I switched to Vista too. Even ppl who bought along with Vista have switched to XP here in Germany... Nobody have faced the problems you have mentioned...

So, let me get this straight, Drgrudge gets a Mac for 72k. But the same configuration is available for 1.04L in India. So, his friend agrees to pay 75k for the Mac? Does this make sense? btw, i dont think he mentioned a Mac laptop???

reg. iPod, mp3 is standard. Its not lossless. besides, I decide what format I need to put. They dont advertise it as mp3 player... If that is the case as say a creative mp3 player or something like that I accept... for 280 Euros, I get a junk which can play only mp3/mp4 and everytime i have to see a movie or tvshow, i have to convert to mp4!


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

driver issues compatibility issues are just over hyped to show vista in bad light inspite of coming out with beta after beta software developers couldnt port their apps to vista so its vista fault acc to every 1

and trackpad being bad u will find not more than 5 people on this forum who will say that because they have already bought a lac+ machines so it has to be better u know costlier means better logic


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## napster007 (Feb 11, 2008)

i'm tired to fighting.....will let this pass


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

napster007 said:


> i'm tired to fighting.....will let this pass


ha ha ha yippeeeehhhhhhh I win  

jus kidding... I will join your league sooner, (immaterial of you supporting mac/linux/windows)


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

Ah well, Dr bought his from the States where it costs $2000. Not sure how that translates to 72k, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper there. 

I never meant to say Open source is for pirated content. Where would you get that from? I'm just saying MKV is in the real world is a means for distribution of pirated media. You don't find MKV being used by studios and other distribution models. Most of them use .mov or .wmv. 

And yes, Sony's trackpad is bad. HP's trackpad is bad. Dell worse. Compaq/Acer is in the pits. All the Mac laptops have an excellent trackpad. I even worked at the film festival doing photoshop and whatnot while working on the iBook trackpad. (The PCs there sucked. Sahara branded or something)

As for the driver issue, it's real. Lots of people are having issues. This has been since the Sony went ahead with Vista. My friend went to Mumbai where he knew some technician who charged him 2k for the installation, after which the sound drivers wouldn't work. I think it was the Sony SZ series 140E or something. 



> reg. iPod, mp3 is standard. Its not lossless. besides, I decide what format I need to put. They dont advertise it as mp3 player... If that is the case as say a creative mp3 player or something like that I accept... for 280 Euros, I get a junk which can play only mp3/mp4 and everytime i have to see a movie or tvshow, i have to convert to mp4!


Like I said, geeks might want to look elsewhere. Believe it or not, most people don't care about all kinds of formats and such. Music comes in Mp3, just drag it into iTunes and sync up. If they want lossless, AAC lossless does a pretty good job. For those with an iTunes store, the process is even simpler. Now the movies thing, yes, they should have allowed avi format, but they didn't. Sucks I know. They have geared it up for legal iTunes store downloads I guess.

As for that mac configuration. 2GB of RAM costs $60 or so. Installing RAM is almost too simple. Just takes one screw. As for the hard drive, it does involve a little more work, but it is certainly user replaceable.


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

@ goobi: dude, you are getting stuff all wrong. AAC* is *the indudtrial standard. its mp3's successor, licenced by the ever so famous MPEG Group. Apple is just(and its a good thing) following latest standards. And again, AVI sucks. M4V sucks. But the former is a container, the later a codec. I personally use the mp4 *container not codec* , and I am satisfied. And FYKI, its *made* for stuff like DivX/XviD(mpeg4 part 10 ASP).

most of apple's products use standard stuff, but newer standards and different names(mov is hack of mp4; sorenson is hack of h.263/h.264, osx is a hack of freeBSD, safari is a hack of konqueror, etc.)

and to sum it up, *AAC IS NOT PROPIATARY TO APPLE. M$ IS JUST TOO LAZY TO SUPPORT FUTURE FORMATS.*

@grudge: Learning is Fun

@infra: I ment guys like linus torvaldis and other system level devs, not interface enthusiast devs like thee. sorry for offence.


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

Yes. I do realise the difference between container and codec. But when you say AAC is industry standard, you have got it a little wrong. AAC is the future, sure. But how many devices you know support AAC? Most players, car audio systems and whatnot support mp3. Apple has used AAC and made their own container m4a is it? Same for the video.


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## praka123 (Feb 11, 2008)

^do u wanna say,all Linux users are doing is configuring things? 
get the reality!u need to install multimedia codec which absolutely distros cant do much to able to bundle  also is the case with proprietary graphics drivers from nvidia,amd ati .



apart from that Linux Desktops be it Fedora or Ubuntu,slackware or Debian,they are meant for work;infact serious work(debian for eg used in space programs  ) and most people who are into coding will prolly select GNU/Linux.

and for novices?
I can gurantee that unlike toys like  windows vista etc,Linux is more than a eyecandy along with compiz-fusion.unlike beryl(now merged to compiz), CF bundles most plugins in usability POV although effects plugins like fire,water etc are just for show off for pwning vista and leopard guys.

I do have a respect for OS X as it is based on freebsd.but AFAICT,those who use mac purges something from their brains called "intelligence" after becoming a damn apple fanboy.  this is the reality! I do have relatives and friends who use mac esp mbp.they are such accustomed with os x that they are feeling they are in a unique league.but,the reality is mac is a tainted,hacked freebsd which can NOT gurantee the original BSD stability,security.eat that before justifying cool apps and eyecandy 

Infact few sensible guys are there in mac community who understands that Linux is indeed better esp the ideology it holds.

the few "configure" things happens in Linux is either due to lack of drivers for few printers,wireless devices.that will be,hopefully change soon.

One of this is a physics prof(ph.d) in a college here, who uses mac pro(that desktop with ppc chipset) for his work and to teach his students also.

He dual boots with Debian Linux for programming and entertainment too.
He can understand that a GNU/Linux user should have to get ready to accustomed with the new interface and tools.for that a week may be necessary.
that is called sensibility unlike using Linux in *VM's* and claiming used Linux 


In case of what I am doing with My *Debian* box,is I use it as a learning tool esp programming(n00b),use Gnome Desktop for my entertainment needs esp as a multimedia  station,browsing,chatting all everything that I need.I have to say that I am not into gaming;for which I suggest getting a playstation is worth the money.

so,there is no need for FUD:GNU/Linux is ready to use and you need to dedicate yourself rather than whining about that it is not "*windows like*" or os X like


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## tarey_g (Feb 11, 2008)

me is back ,

Whoa surprised to see this thread still running  .

i may have missed many things in absence, but could not avoid launch of mac book air . Looks real sexy, but i am just aware of the looks and config . So far looks awesome.


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

Hey Tarey! Long time no see eh! I thought with all that hanging you would be finished by now. Btw, this thread has just been 'poked' by me like yesterday.



> *Download Transmission 1.05
> *
> Select your Operating System:
> *Mac OS X*
> ...


Need I say more? I do realise that Linux has that software management thing which is pretty awesome, but stuff like this is always around the corner...



> infact serious work(debian for eg used in space programs  )


Linux is I guess really good for scientific stuff and such. It is a really advanced system I'm sure. But I don't think any n00b will be running a space program. That requires a lot of knowledge on the intricacies of the system. I for one don't know what goes on inside OS X. I know it's something of BSD, but besides that I have no idea how a kernel works or why it works as it does. All I care about is that I can email my clients some nice looking documents which would have taken me twice as long and probably really boring to do on Windows. Not sure how that's possible on Linux.


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## praka123 (Feb 11, 2008)

^apart from a superior OS for scientific purposes,GNU/Linux satisfies novice users too!


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## The_Devil_Himself (Feb 11, 2008)

^^yay!!I just updated my gutsy install and now I can play urban terror at maxed out settings on ubuntu!!! with lower ping rates compared to vista!.good bye vista.

praka123:ygpm.


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## Faun (Feb 11, 2008)

Yup, i started as a novice and now am above average in linux


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## nish_higher (Feb 11, 2008)

T159 said:


> Yup, i started as a novice and now am above average in linux


+1


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## FilledVoid (Feb 11, 2008)

> A word about Idiot Friendliness. I see a lot of thread in OSS section "Newbie to Linux", "MetalHeadGautam Ubuntu queries" , "Trying & Learning Ubuntu. My Query Thread" , "Calling all Linux Experts: I've got a million questions... ", etc... the learning curve is pretty steep in *nix. Do you see such things in the Apple Mac thread? Goobimama was there to help me when I first used my Mac but I just had a few questions here and there.



Maybe that could be because of the difference of Mac to Linux users on this board. To indicate the trends of a population based on the responses on this board wouldn't be fair. Further more if the above were a standard in judging the trends in any scenario then I could argue that the reason why you don't see that many queries about Mac's because people can't afford it or find near to little use for it or that even Mac users are much more tech oriented than Linux users (In other words to use a Mac you need to be a Super Geek which we all know is not the case) . Please note that I'm not stating that this is the case. I'm just stating that I could argue that it is. 

Nonetheless I recently checked out the prices of some of the Mac's and had a demonstration on a friends laptop I intend to purchase one very soon most likely .  (No not the Air) For some reason the dealer declined me an offer of a demo  . Maybe cause it wasn't exactly an Apple outlet? Do we have one of those in Cochin? 

Off Topic :Oh by the way to the person who can't play Chessmaster and Fritz I recall that Linux supports both versions. I might be wrong about Fritz.  Im a  Chessmaster X series player. I believe that you might have different results for different versions of the Chess program. And out of curiosity what rank do you maintain on Chessmaster? We should play some time  .


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## mediator (Feb 11, 2008)

^^Turns me on! Register urself here.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> Off Topic :Oh by the way to the person who can't play Chessmaster and Fritz I recall that Linux supports both versions. I might be wrong about Fritz.  Im a  Chessmaster X series player. I believe that you might have different results for different versions of the Chess program. And out of curiosity what rank do you maintain on Chessmaster? We should play some time  .



Hey person, I am the person who queried about fritz and chessmaster 
My official rating is 1440. I play here in a club in Germany. So far, I have played around 14 I guess, not sure... 12 Won, 1 lost, 1 dint appear.

In chessmaster, I played very long ago... before loving fritz.. It was around 1900+ but its a crazy software. I dont believe it.

Fritz -> the best!! Please tell me how to install fritz and java based programs for windows in linux!!  I will credit you by supporting for linux  jk...

anytime on the week ends!


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Ah well, Dr bought his from the States where it costs $2000. Not sure how that translates to 72k, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper there.


My MacBook Pro (legolas: It is an Apple Laptop) costs $2k. But Apple had an offer last year. $200 off and a free iPod Nano. $1800 converts to Rs. 72k. 




			
				iMav said:
			
		

> and trackpad being bad u will find not more than 5 people on this forum who will say that because they have already bought a lac+ machines so it has to be better u know costlier means better logic


I've used and see all the Trackpads of Vaio, HP, Dell, HCL, Acer, Toshiba etc. The trackpad _should not_ smooth. But with 6-7 months (2-3 months in case of Dell) of usage, they're smooth and don't offer friction. Does other brands give the feature and convience of a MacBook's Trackpad? The number of people use mouse on MacBook/Pro is a lot less than the number using mouse on other brands for the same number.


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## legolas (Feb 11, 2008)

Drgrudge, it might be true... I can not generalize it.
but, in my case, sony vaio VGN FE28H, i dont use external mouse. i use my touch/track pad... and its still healthy and frictionized... its been a year and 3 months almost.

PS: I am gonna purchase a salt-paper... just in case 

reg. your signature.. an awesome song with coincidental "apple laptop" line to boot!! good one!


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

i have been using hp notebooks for a long time (dad's) and i find no problem in the trackpad it responds beautifully so if ur generalizing then i would its wrong to do so

and jeshtha what are u doing here- please go and download repositories for ur linux let _us_ discuss the OS that is meant for work and not meant to be worked upon before u can work


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## FilledVoid (Feb 11, 2008)

> please go and download repositories for ur linux let us discuss the OS that is meant for work and not meant to be worked upon before u can work



In the normal case with the exception of Installation problems, happens on both platforms . However I will say it does happen much more on Linux. Alot of  Distros have lesser for a user to install than the platform you are speaking about. An example is I can open my Office documents on a newly installed Ubuntu desktop. Or take the case of programs which are already installed. However I doubt that you can do the same in WIndows Xp newly installed. (No updates and AFAIK it doesn't install the reader programs). Even before you mention it Ill give you the advantage of having Mp3 support. Im not quite sure about a Mac and how the availability of programs is with it so Im not going there. 

Oh by the way, the Mac may be ready to work  Out of Box but definitely not any of the Windows platform. I haven't used Vista enough to know much about it so Im judging from my limited experience from Windows Xp . 

Summary: There are trade offs in any Platform the person uses. Theres not a single OS with all of them. Maybe in the future someone will come up with one that does work.

Off Topic : 


> Hey person, I am the person who queried about fritz and chessmaster
> My official rating is 1440. I play here in a club in Germany. So far, I have played around 14 I guess, not sure... 12 Won, 1 lost, 1 dint appear.


I don't have an actual ranking since I havent played in Tournaments. Online Rankings are basically stupid since a person with a 2k ranking in Chessmaster wouldnt be able to defeat a Human  with a ranking of 1400. 


> In chessmaster, I played very long ago... before loving fritz.. It was around 1900+ but its a crazy software. I dont believe it.



I hear that Chessmaster is good Graphic wise. However Fritz better when it comes to games. I believe on the Chessmaster forums a comparison was done. Fritz owned it if I recall right. 



> Fritz -> the best!! Please tell me how to install fritz and java based programs for windows in linux!! I will credit you by supporting for linux jk...



Which version of Fritz are you using? 
*www.calmar.ws/div/fritz_and_wine.html 
That thread shows Frtiz running. So definitely I believe it can be done. As far as Java programs are concerned. You should be able to run ANY Java program if you have Java installed correct? In Ubuntu installing Ubuntu-restricted extras take care of this. 


> anytime on the week ends!


Will try to log on then  
Ill post my availability in the Chess thread. I'm not very good although the Chessmaster thingie has given me a 2k + rating which I think is bogus.


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

legolas said:


> Please tell me how to install [...] java based programs for windows in linux!!



Are you serious?  How do I install Java-based programs in Linux?

You install it the same way you install them in Windows, Solaris, BSD, etc... It's JAVA.  (Ya know, the write once, run anywhere stuff?)  Yeah, there can be OS-specific code in there, but that's a choice of the *developer*, not the choice of the OS.  Sun did a reasonably good job of keeping Java as agnostic as possible when it comes to OS's, so if you run into Java code that "doesn't work on Linux/OS X/Solaris", it means the person who wrote the code didn't *want* it to work for those OS's...which is hardly a reason to claim you don't like one OS or another!

Edit - Just checked out Fritz...the requirements list *Windows Media Player* and DirectX.  Hrmmm...doesn't sound very "OS agnostic" to me...sounds like the devs wanted to lock that one in pretty hard...



exx_2000 said:


> Summary: There are trade offs in any Platform the person uses. Theres not a single OS with all of them.



When machines can read the mind of the person using them, and vomit forth whatever the person desires, then (and only then) will there be "one OS to rule them all"...so I agree completely with you here.



exx_2000 said:


> In the normal case with the exception of Installation problems, happens on both platforms . However I will say it does happen much more on Linux. Alot of  Distros have lesser for a user to install than the platform you are speaking about. An example is I can open my Office documents on a newly installed Ubuntu desktop.



Again, this is discussing what OS matches what each *user* wants.  I'd rather NOT have a bloated Office Suite on my machine...or be locked in to using Gnome/KDE/whatever...or be forced to use iTunes/Windows Media Player/whatever.  I'd like to *build* my system to match *me*.  Yeah, it takes a lot longer to build Linux From Scratch/Gentoo/FreeBSD (Yes, I build FreeBSD from source), but in the end I get a desktop that *I* want...not what some other developer decided would be best.  In addition, I can strip out all of the useless crap that I don't need, so it's lighter and faster in addition to being focused on what I want...

You'd be surprised how easy it is building an operating system from source code (though, you Windows and Mac fanboys can't comment on that, can you?  haha).


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

> I'd like to *build* my system to match *me*.


Does it ever occur to you that most people don't really care about how their system functions, and what kernels it uses. Most people just want to plug their machine in, and start browsing the net, sharing files and writing documents. Much like they do with their cellphones or TV sets. The business of customizing is reserved to geeks and specialised areas like servers and scientific stuff.


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

rocket357 said:


> Again, this is discussing what OS matches what each *user* wants.  I'd rather NOT have a bloated Office Suite on my machine...or be locked in to using Gnome/KDE/whatever...or be forced to use iTunes/Windows Media Player/whatever.  I'd like to *build* my system to match *me*.  Yeah, it takes a lot longer to build Linux From Scratch/Gentoo/FreeBSD (Yes, I build FreeBSD from source), but in the end I get a desktop that *I* want...not what some other developer decided would be best.  In addition, I can strip out all of the useless crap that I don't need, so it's lighter and faster in addition to being focused on what I want...


 and that my friend is what makes all the difference i need my machine to work and work to make it work; a bloated office suite well ignorance cant help it uncheck what u dont want o no wait ud rather show ur ignorance by calling it bloated than using common sense and going through an advanced setup as i said people want to work on their system and not want to spend time working on it to make it work  u have the time to sh1t sorry sit and compile go for it have fun but that does not mean its better i want my computer to do what i want it to and that windows does and does it great - i wanna play games just install and run not buy some freaking subscription or install some ither bloatware (wine). get my point?


rocket357 said:


> You'd be surprised how easy it is building an operating system from source code (though, you Windows and Mac fanboys can't comment on that, can you?  haha).


 sorry ur tight i cant comment on it i got better things in life than compiling an os to work; computers were made to make life simple  and thats what windows does


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## The_Devil_Himself (Feb 11, 2008)

iMav said:


> and that my friend is what makes all the difference i need my machine to work and work to make it work*;* a bloated office suite well ignorance cant help it uncheck what u dont want o no wait ud rather show ur ignorance by calling it bloated than using common sense and going through an advanced setup as i said people want to work on their system and not want to spend time working on it to make it work  u have the time to sh1t sorry sit and compile go for it have fun but that does not mean its better i want my computer to do what i want it to and that windows does and does it great *-* i wanna play games just install and run not buy some freaking subscription or install some ither bloatware (wine)*.* get my point*?*
> 
> sorry ur tight i cant comment on it i got better things in life than compiling an os to work*;* computers were made to make life simple  and thats what windows does



yaar thoda format kiya karo,read karke samjhne main hi itna time lag jata hai.(hamari bhi life thodi simple kar do sirji).


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Does it ever occur to you that most people don't really care about how their system functions, and what kernels it uses.



Oh trust me, I KNOW I'm not a "typical end user"...but answer this:

If you had the know-how and the time, wouldn't you love to have an OS that is specifically "just for you"?  Down to every detail...everything about the OS is pleasant and appealing to you.  Nothing that annoys or irritates...just 100% zen in an OS...

Sound nice?  It is!


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

The_Devil_Himself said:


> yaar thoda format kiya karo,read karke samjhne main hi itna time lag jata hai.(hamari bhi life thodi simple kar do sirji).


sorry


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

> If you had the know-how and the time


Yep! Agreed 100%.


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

iMav said:


> a bloated office suite well ignorance cant help it uncheck what u dont want o no wait ud rather show ur ignorance by calling it bloated than using common sense and going through an advanced setup as i said people want to work on their system and not want to spend time working on it to make it work  u have the time to sh1t sorry sit and compile go for it have fun but that does not mean its better i want my computer to do what i want it to and that windows does and does it great - i wanna play games just install and run



Cmon...Please tell me you're smarter than that.  If you do Advanced Setup and turn it all off, the code still contains sections that refer to the non-active blocks.  If you disable it at compile-time, there no "well, it's present but turned OFF" crap...it's not there PERIOD.  Less space, less crap in memory.

And you missed the entire point of my post.  1) Not all of us want the same (using myself as a bit of an extreme example of that), and 2) We're all free to pick and choose, but each OS comes with consequences (setup time on Linux, viruses and vendor lock-in for Windows, and Mac, well...it's pretty, isn't it?).


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

^^ Ah. I see you are stumped for providing a good deficiency for Mac OS X! . Being pretty ain't never a disadvantage....


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## praka123 (Feb 11, 2008)

there are two type of people;those who love eyecandy and those who NOT


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## FilledVoid (Feb 11, 2008)

> When machines can read the mind of the person using them, and vomit forth whatever the person desires, then (and only then) will there be "one OS to rule them all"...so I agree completely with you here.



If you were being sarcastic then its a poor attempt. However if you were pointing this out in order to emphasize user friendliness is subjective then again I would have to say that Linux is MORE user friendly than any Windows platform cause it includes needed app for most common folks or generally a customizer which allows you to customize which applications YOU want or don't want. However I do think that Vista has a Menu which allows you to Select the programs that you want to install ? Is this available at Install time? 


My question is how is a Mac on Programs available by default and Installation Procedure ? Does it run into trouble? Cause I think naturally the installation should be trouble free since its only being used on recommended hardware. Or in other words how is a Mac when compared in this aspect quoted below? 



> Does it ever occur to you that most people don't really care about how their system functions, and what kernels it uses. Most people just want to plug their machine in, and start browsing the net, sharing files and writing documents. Much like they do with their cellphones or TV sets. The business of customizing is reserved to geeks and specialised areas like servers and scientific stuff.






> Again, this is discussing what OS matches what each *user* wants. I'd rather NOT have a bloated Office Suite on my machine...or be locked in to using Gnome/KDE/whatever...or be forced to use iTunes/Windows Media Player/whatever. I'd like to *build* my system to match *me*. Yeah, it takes a lot longer to build Linux From Scratch/Gentoo/FreeBSD (Yes, I build FreeBSD from source), but in the end I get a desktop that *I* want...not what some other developer decided would be best. In addition, I can strip out all of the useless crap that I don't need, so it's lighter and faster in addition to being focused on what I want...



Um I'm lost. What in the world are we talking about? I know that you could do all of the above. My point was that on a default install most distros provide applications for the common folk (that too free). Windows doesn't come with squat. I'm not sure about Apple but I recall drgrudge saying that he/she had to purchase an Office Suite somewhere (I might be wrong and I really prefer not to search for that thread).


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> I would have to say that Linux is MORE user friendly than any Windows platform


*gigasmilies.googlepages.com/24.gif


exx_2000 said:


> My question is how is a Mac on Programs available by default and Installation Procedure ?


 the only thing it lacks is u cant define where u want to install the app thus ur restricted to the disk size of ur primary partition rest i like it more than the linux options available


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Yes. I do realise the difference between container and codec. But when you say AAC is industry standard, you have got it a little wrong. AAC is the future, sure. But how many devices you know support AAC? Most players, car audio systems and whatnot support mp3. Apple has used AAC and made their own container m4a is it? Same for the video.


my dear goobi, m4a is nothing but mp4 with a different extention. It became popular, as its easy to identify an audio only MP4 file thanks to apple's given name, m4a. Slowly, even m4v name is catching up, but for a different perpose.

And here is something on AAC being the industry standard:

MP3 is nearing the end of its life. MusePack, Vorbis, AAC, etc are the top codecs today and they beat the cr@p out of MP3. But its still popular. Why? Because its old, and well supported. Besides, companies like Fraunhofer, which have the right to collect MP3 royalities in the US are happy. But sadly for them, the Patent for MP3 expires on 2009. Period. Meaning no money for companies. Bad quality codec. No revenue. Lets make bucks. MP3 is being ditched rather unceremoniously. But the same organisation who set standards for Audio, Video, etc, MPEG, has come up with this new standard, AAC, in their MPEG4 Specifications list. XviD, DivX, H.263, H.264, etc are also included here as MPEG4 ASP and AVS. HD-DVD, Blu-Ray Disc, etc support this format. So it IS here. Just because it lacks support, just like BDs and HD-DVDs, does not mean that it isn't taking over.

But I would like to add that thanks to mp3's demising age, and loong reign period, other rivals could also catch up. You might notice that AoTuV Vorbis can defeat Nero AAC at bitrates above 64kbps. Then there is MusePack, a popular audio format similar to AC3(ecept that muse is stereo centric) in quality and usage(hi bitrate), and FLAC as you know is the most popular lossless audio codec, despite cousin WavPack's superiority.

And once again, *Linux is not a kernel whose OSes can be compared as it is. If you really want to talk about linux and easy to use stuff for n00bs, discuss specific distros, like Eee, SuSE, Xandros, Linspire, Mandriva, etc, not linux as a whole, which is basically ment for guys like me, praka, infra, etc who like some adventure with their OS and geekiness gives satisfaction.*


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

The Mac install and uninstall procedure is the simplest in the world. Just drag the app into the applications folder and it's done. There are exceptions to this rule, but none of them involve poking around the core and whatnot. 

As for linux being more user friendly, it's just as crazy as saying Man landed on the moon. 

Yes, Linux does come with a lot of free and open source software, but it's the paid ones that generally kick ass. Take Adobe suite, Final Cut studio, iWork (paid office suite for mac which otherwise comes with a trial version), Logic studio.

@metalhead: didn't I just say that Apple has just rebranded AAC into their own container? Jeez. 

As for mp3 being an industry standard, I will stand by my statement. AAC is the future for sure, but mp3 is here to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. It's widely available, supported, and most people have caught onto the name 'mp3' meaning digital music. It'll take a while for aac to penetrate. I personally rip in AAC. 

And a small note: This is a Mac OS X vs Vista thread. Didn't realise how Linux came in


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> Um I'm lost. What in the world are we talking about? I know that you could do all of the above. My point was that on a default install most distros provide applications for the common folk (that too free). Windows doesn't come with squat.



Apparently we're looking at this from differing angles.  My point is simple:  *from a coder's perspective*, I find Linux to be far superior to Windows (I can't comment on Mac because I've never used/owned one).  Sure, there's an API for everything in Windows...but what if the code you're writing requires more functionality than the API gives (not to mention, most Windows API's are horribly underdocumented)?  Where I work we're constantly submitting code to open source projects because if we ran into a problem (for instance, SQL Server doesn't do something we need it to), we'd be screwed if we used a closed solution (up until about a year ago we did business that way...then we got smart and dumped MSSQL for PostgreSQL).  Rather than submit a silly "feature enhancement" and wait for M$ to decide if it's worth the time and effort, we code it ourselves and submit it back to the open source community as per the GPL agreement.

I guess I'm not the right guy for this argument, because no one seems to care about anything outside of "how pretty is it" and "can I get by without figuring anything out".  I'm not like that...I'd rather know *why* it works like it does (as opposed to "it just works").  I was under the impression that the discussion at hand was "why this OS works for me, and points you should consider, too"...but isn't "I can dig into the OS and learn this or that" part of the user experience if the user chooses?


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## FilledVoid (Feb 11, 2008)

> the only thing it lacks is u cant define where u want to install the app thus ur restricted to the disk size of ur primary partition rest i like it more than the linux options available



I really don't mind this. how is the option available different from the one in Linux again? And how *sure* are you that you can't install a Linux program anywhere else? And from a common person's view, how much does the location of an application concern him ?  Even better . When you install Windows and your applications do you get to choose the location of where you Solitaire program goes cause I want to install it in f:\dont\be\unreasonable folder?



> for linux being more user friendly, it's just as crazy as saying Man landed on the moon.
> 
> Yes, Linux does come with a lot of free and open source software, but it's the paid ones that generally kick ass. Take Adobe suite, Final Cut studio, iWork (paid office suite for mac which otherwise comes with a trial version), Logic studio.



Subjective maybe. Crazy as saying Man landed on the moon....Mere exaggeration. As I said I think most people who I have installed Ubuntu for its at 16 and counting have been fine with their installs. Although I did have a problem with one today cause it didn't boot properly after the person added a new display card.  I however do agree with the part of the paid software point though. 



> And a small note: This is a Mac OS X vs Vista thread. Didn't realise how Linux came in


My bad I think I brought that in when I was responding to some retarded post.



> Apparently we're looking at this from differing angles.


Fair enough


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

Who is the _mahan_ who made this dormant thread, active?




			
				MetalheadGautham said:
			
		

> Linux is not a kernel whose OSes can be compared as it is. If you really want to talk about linux and easy to use stuff for n00bs, discuss specific distros, like Eee, SuSE, Xandros, Linspire, Mandriva, etc, not linux as a whole, which is basically ment for guys like me, praka, infra, etc who like some adventure with their OS and geekiness gives satisfaction.


I've always wondered this. Why would you want to do the seemingly difficult steps for the simplest tasks like launching an app? Don't you have any other work to do with your PC? Why not just download the OS and use it? 

Time and again we're seeing that *nix needs some learning curve before you're good in doing what Windows/Mac counterparts do. 


@goobi - 
iWork full version comes with MBA.


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## rocket357 (Feb 11, 2008)

drgrudge said:


> Who is the _mahan_ who made this dormant thread, active?





goobimama said:


> Sorry to bump this thread, but...



Kinda funny, actually.  Another Mac user's gripe over Windows "rekindled" the flames...


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> The Mac install and uninstall procedure is the simplest in the world. Just drag the app into the applications folder and it's done. There are exceptions to this rule, but none of them involve poking around the core and whatnot.
> 
> As for linux being more user friendly, it's just as crazy as saying Man landed on the moon.
> 
> ...


Please avoid talking about linux when you still beleive its an OS meant to be used by people the way they use Mac and Win. Its here to stay, and is for its own community. Just as its pointless for an arab muslim to claim that his culture is better than a chinese shintoist's(no religious offence intended here) due to the fact that each lives in his own world, and the later more so, Macintosh guys can't talk about linux because each party serves an entirely different audience.

And M4A is not rebranded. Its even more low. Its just renamed, as its still identified as MP4 by all good codec info tools. Lets say I rip a song Pashendale.mp4, I just rightclick, rename to Pashendale.m4a. Similar effect here. And the name m4a is not propiatary.

For the reference, i rip with FLAC/WavPack for archival perposes, and MusePack for playback. Vorbis, Nero AAC are occasionally used. But MP3 only for my DVD Player(need to up bitrate to ABR 256 kbps to match 180kbps musepack or vorbis, but DVD has 4.3 gig space, and is swapable, so no loss felt.)

And This is a Windows vs Mac Topic ? Then Mac FTW ! Forget linux in this thread and keep it for later.
But *as a BSD appritiater, I vote for Mac.*
Although its a bad job... jobs still didn't create geek version of Darwin.


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## drgrudge (Feb 11, 2008)

rocket357 said:


> Kinda funny, actually.  Another Mac user's gripe over Windows "rekindled" the flames...


I just asked out of curiosity. There's no harm in bumping a thread unless it's useless/irrelevant.


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

drgrudge said:


> I just asked out of curiosity. There's no harm in bumping a thread unless it's useless/irrelevant.


as you mentioned the word curiosity, here is a post:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=744678&postcount=21

Have you noticed, iMav says he installed Mac on his PC. Could that be the reason he is finding it bad ? I heard Apple has put lots of obstructions for *ackintosh users ?


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## iMav (Feb 11, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> I really don't mind this. how is the option available different from the one in Linux again? And how *sure* are you that you can't install a Linux program anywhere else?


 i prefer to drag an application as compared to open terminal and type redundant codes  

heres a look at the installation procedures of the 3:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=678243&postcount=19


exx_2000 said:


> And from a common person's view, how much does the location of an application concern him ?  Even better .


 iv seen more people changing installation directory than iv seen using linux 


exx_2000 said:


> When you install Windows and your applications do you get to choose the location of where you Solitaire program goes cause I want to install it in f:\dont\be\unreasonable folder?


damn look at this guys sheer desparation he has started making absolutely stupid comments  solitaire does solitaire come with its own installer ... dude wen ur talking atleast make sure u dont make a fool out of urself with such statements .... solitaire 

a hackintosh is no different from mac as far as the os goes;using os x on pc - its pretty much like using a pirated windows copy go to apple.com and then update ur machine is screwed thats it other than that theres no difference  and some hardware that doesnt work thats it


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## goobimama (Feb 11, 2008)

> Macintosh guys can't talk about linux because each party serves an entirely different audience.


And what audience does Linux serve might I ask? The Mac serves the consumer desktop market, and professional market. I don't think there are many mac servers or macs used in render farms and such. 



> For the reference, i rip with FLAC/WavPack for archival perposes, and MusePack for playback. Vorbis, Nero AAC are occasionally used. But MP3 only for my DVD Player(need to up bitrate to ABR 256 kbps to match 180kbps musepack or vorbis, but DVD has 4.3 gig space, and is swapable, so no loss felt.)


See what I'm talking about? With iTunes, you just pop in your CD and it's ripped in either AAC, MP3 or lossless. No more fuss. You might prefer it that way, but aunt Rita and uncle Bobby have no clue as to what those are. To them iTunes is as simple and easy as it gets.



> When you install Windows and your applications do you get to choose the location of where you Solitaire program goes cause I want to install it in f:\dont\be\unreasonable folder?


Cracks me up!


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 11, 2008)

goobimama said:


> And what audience does Linux serve might I ask? The Mac serves the consumer desktop market, and professional market. I don't think there are many mac servers or macs used in render farms and such.


Linux is mainly for the geek market. Meaning professional(Maya, Servers) and enthusiast(hacker, geek, intelligentia, etc) and also some hardcore gaming clans use them(linux games like UT3, etc are prettier in linux than in windows)


goobimama said:


> See what I'm talking about? With iTunes, you just pop in your CD and it's ripped in either AAC, MP3 or lossless. No more fuss. You might prefer it that way, but aunt Rita and uncle Bobby have no clue as to what those are. To them iTunes is as simple and easy as it gets.


Linux is not for aunt Rita and uncle Bobby. See above. Its for cousin Gautham, uncle Anirudh and grandpa Prakash.


goobimama said:


> Cracks me up!


+1
But seriously, it is very much possible to change location of a linux program too, only if, as even iMav says, it comes with an installer that does it. Else you have commandline to do that.


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## FilledVoid (Feb 11, 2008)

Since you took the time to adress what I posted Ill address you back. 



> i prefer to drag an application as compared to open terminal and type redundant codes
> 
> heres a look at the installation procedures of the 3:
> 
> *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/show...3&postcount=19



I usually use Synaptic, It installs the applications I need with the dependencies . If you'd like to shorten the process you could use the Add program option in the menu. I don't even recall what you wanted to try installing in the first place. Maybe it was an application that * didn't come by default*.



> damn look at this guys sheer desparation he has started making absolutely stupid comments  solitaire does solitaire come with its own installer ... dude wen ur talking atleast make sure u dont make a fool out of urself with such statements .... solitaire



Desperation? If thats the best you can do your at best small fry for me. Look in the below picture since you have infinite knowledge of WIndows please explain to my noobish self on how I select a install location to the same place in the below picture. 

*img146.imageshack.us/img146/8932/solitairelq0.png

If there is I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding.


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## goobimama (Feb 12, 2008)

^^ The real question is why, oh why, would you want to install Solitaire in some godforsaken location!!!!


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## FilledVoid (Feb 12, 2008)

> And from a common person's view, how much does the location of an application concern him ? Even better .



And for the Love of God which leads me to my original statement.



> And from a common person's view, how much does the location of an application concern him ? Even better .



So does this uphold then ?



> damn look at this guys sheer desparation he has started making absolutely stupid comments solitaire does solitaire come with its own installer ... dude wen ur talking atleast make sure u dont make a fool out of urself with such statements .... solitaire



None of the aplpications or at least the ones in my Windows menu offer me a location to place them where I want. So Please show me iMav where you obviously do this. I'm a person who doesn't know much about technology. Why don't for once you drop the Elitist attitude and act your age. Im assuming your at least in College or probably working. And to goobimama to be frank I wouldn't but from someones post he needs the choice of doing so or otherwise it seems to be that that software needs to face some form of capital punishment.


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## iMav (Feb 12, 2008)

exx_2000 said:


> I usually use Synaptic, It installs the applications I need with the dependencies . If you'd like to shorten the process you could use the Add program option in the menu. I don't even recall what you wanted to try installing in the first place. Maybe it was an application that * didn't come by default*.


 the last time i checked synaptic was not a part of all linux distros - corect me if im wrong is it 


exx_2000 said:


> Desperation? If thats the best you can do your at best small fry for me. Look in the below picture since you have infinite knowledge of WIndows please explain to my noobish self on how I select a install location to the same place in the below picture.
> 
> *img146.imageshack.us/img146/8932/solitairelq0.png
> 
> If there is I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding.


 did u even read what i said does solitaire come with its installer  dude next u will say i want to change the location of shell32 folder  talk sense man talk sense solitaire is a part of the windows installation and not a separate 3rd party software ... jeez man wtf!!! any software even those from microsoft that come with their own installer allow u to change location. please tell me can i change the location xorg.conf and place anywhere i want to or for that matter during linux installation can i change the default location of the stuff that is installed with the OS ....

dude u know what ur making a fool out of urself by making the statements ur making please first understand wht the discussion is who is saying what then make statements


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## FilledVoid (Feb 12, 2008)

> did u even read what i said does solitaire come with its installer


WHERE?!?!?! Where is this installer in my Windows XP CD Please point it out.  




> dude next u will say i want to change the location of shell32 folder  talk sense man talk sense solitaire is a part of the windows installation and not a separate 3rd party software ...



No I dont want you to change the shell , any of the locaitons of the system files , registry stuff nada.... Just the location of the applications in your Add remove program interface. . 



> jeez man wtf!!!


You're limited vocabulary amazes me . Try again maybe you might come up with something creative. Oh wait it seems you lack that portion in your brain. 



> any software even those from microsoft that come with their own installer allow u to change location.



Did you even take the time to read my earlier posts. Obviously not.  Ill post it for your reference AGAIN. 



> When you *install Windows* and your applications do you get to choose the location of where you Solitaire program goes cause I want to install it in f:\dont\be\unreasonable folder?





> please tell me can i change the location xorg.conf and place anywhere i want to or for that matter during linux installation can i change the default location of the stuff that is installed with the OS ....



No I doubt you can. I don't recall asking you to move System32 to any dll files that you use in Windows. Only the applications that get installed with it by default. 



> dude u know what ur making a fool out of urself by making the statements ur making please first understand wht the discussion is who is saying what then make statements



To be frank I know what the discussion is about and hence only responding to the posts made to me.  The question is are you educated enough to answer and understand plain English or would you ike me to try to explain it as I would to a 5 year old. As I said I'm no whizkid when it comes to technology. So unless you can prove what you have your points are moot and just portrays your ignorance. All I did is ask a question to which I ask you again with a clear picture for you. Where is the installer that I can find on my CD ???? Or the place in the menu that i can locate it on my install. 

Its give respect and take respect. If you choose to speak to me like you did above I'll address you the same way. I hope you understand.


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## goobimama (Feb 12, 2008)

^^ Dude! Can't you understand iMav-English? He said that there isn't any installer for Solitaire! (If it makes you feel better, OS X has a solitaire version which you can stuff in any directory you feel like  )


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## iMav (Feb 12, 2008)

o damn man this guy is unbelievable goobi arya where are u jeshtha metalhead please post i cant reply to this guy anymore 

dude simple terms pleaes understand:

Solitaire is a part of windows installation; windows installs n c: and then installs all its components where they have been programmed to be installed; same is the case with os x same is the case with any unix distro. pleaes read carefully again no wait befroe proceeding read the previous again. Windows/linux/mos x installation installs OS components according to the OS developer; components that are to go into library folder in linuxgo into library folder. 

now the discussion is about software that is obtained from 3rd party providers not the 1 that is installed with the OS because that goes where the developer wants it to. solitaire is not read again not and again not a standalone installer and therefore does not have the option to change the location it is a part of the windows OS isntallation and therefore is installed where it has been programmed to 

if u understand good

PS: goobi;arya;grudgy;metalhead;infra;praka;cyrus any 1 but him please post 

address me the way u want to but please dont make a fool out urself by making stupid statements u wanna talk talk sense call me wat u want to as long as ur talking sense and not just making stupid comments like - can i change the location of solitaire no 1 can change the location of the components that are part of the OS installation be it any OS


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## FilledVoid (Feb 12, 2008)

> Originally Posted by exx_2000
> When you install Windows and your applications do you get to choose the location of where you Solitaire program goes cause I want to install it in f:\dont\be\unreasonable folder?



This is what iMav posted in response to what I said



> damn look at this guys sheer desparation he has started making absolutely stupid comments  solitaire does solitaire come with its own installer ... dude wen ur talking atleast make sure u dont make a fool out of urself with such statements .... solitaire



If he meant that it doesnt come with its own installer then fine. Its hard to understand iMav-English I guess I never had the chance to learn that.


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## goobimama (Feb 12, 2008)

> damn look at this guys sheer desparation he has started making absolutely stupid comments solitaire does solitaire come with its own installer ... dude wen ur talking atleast make sure u dont make a fool out of urself with such statements .... solitaire


Dude. It's so clear that he has inserted the word solitaire randomly. Weed those out and you will find that he clearly mentions that Solitaire doesn't come with an installer. You know, I don't really consider iMav to be a very smart person, but you do make him look like the genius around here (No offence iMav  )


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## FilledVoid (Feb 12, 2008)

Finally. 



> Solitaire is a part of windows installation; windows installs n c: and then installs all its components where they have been programmed to be installed; same is the case with os x same is the case with any unix distro. pleaes read carefully again no wait befroe proceeding read the previous again. Windows/linux/mos x installation installs OS components according to the OS developer; components that are to go into library folder in linuxgo into library folder.



Thank you. So since you believe that components should go where they are supposed to then all is fine. Cause Im going to say that the Linux components all belong in the *right place*.  



> now the discussion is about software that is obtained from 3rd party providers not the 1 that is installed with the OS because that goes where the developer wants it to. solitaire is not read again not and again not a standalone installer and therefore does not have the option to change the location it is a part of the windows OS isntallation and therefore is installed where it has been programmed to



Where in anything I said shows that I referred to third party applications. 

Here is what i said.


> Um I'm lost. What in the world are we talking about? I know that you could do all of the above. My point was that on a default install most distros provide applications for the common folk (that too free). Windows doesn't come with squat.





> I usually use Synaptic, It installs the applications I need with the dependencies . If you'd like to shorten the process you could use the Add program option in the menu. I don't even recall what you wanted to try installing in the first place. Maybe it was an application that didn't come by default.



Im not talking about Third party applications Im talking about applications that came on the OS by *DEFAULT*.



> Dude. It's so clear that he has inserted the word solitaire randomly. Weed those out and you will find that he clearly mentions that Solitaire doesn't come with an installer. You know, I don't really consider iMav to be a very smart person, but you do make him look like the genius around here (No offence iMav  )



I'll guess weeding out words work . However I guess that if you weed out the wrong Solitaire word it sort of backfires .Especially with the lack of punctuation.


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## iMav (Feb 12, 2008)

goobimama said:


> Dude. It's so clear that he has inserted the word solitaire randomly. Weed those out and you will find that he clearly mentions that Solitaire doesn't come with an installer.


 


goobimama said:


> You know, I don't really consider iMav to be a very smart person, but you do make him look like the genius around here (No offence iMav  )


none taken  im happy pwning mac boys  as long as they call me *dumb* i know i aint that dumb


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## infra_red_dude (Feb 12, 2008)

MetalheadGautham said:


> Its for cousin Gautham, *uncle *Anirudh.....


Dude.... watch what you type. I might sue you for this!!! 

Continue the discussion guys....


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## preshit.net (Feb 12, 2008)

infra_red_dude said:


> Dude.... watch what you type. I might sue you for this!!!
> 
> Continue the discussion guys....



That was with reference to aunt Rita and uncle Bobby


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## MetalheadGautham (Feb 13, 2008)

DARK LORD said:


> That was with reference to aunt Rita and uncle Bobby


that was intended to be a mild insult, but infra took it seriously... lolz


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## infra_red_dude (Feb 13, 2008)

^^^ hehe.... naah


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