# Microsoft updates Windows without users' consent



## mediator (Sep 13, 2007)

> [FONT=Arial,Sans-serif]*Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, *[/FONT]*even when the users have turned off auto-updates.*
> [FONT=Arial,Sans-serif]
> Many companies require testing of patches before they are widely installed, and businesses in this situation are objecting to the stealth patching.
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> ...


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## gxsaurav (Sep 13, 2007)

> [FONT=Arial,Sans-serif]*No need to roll back the updated files*
> 
> Again, it's important to note that there's nothing harmful about the updated files themselves. There are no reports of software conflicts and no reason to remove the files (which WU apparently needs in order to access the latest patches).[/FONT]


Hmmm....what does this file updates? Oh! it updates the "Windows Update" which is required to update rest of the system...

why m i not worried ...I M not hiding something anyway...legit user here


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## din (Sep 13, 2007)

May be the reason they stopped autopatcher lol

Autopatcher was asking user atleast ! I mean before installing something.

May be MS care their customers tooooooooooo much. Like they want all win PCs to be very safe evenif the customer forget the automatic update option.

Poor MS, people blame it for everything


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## mediator (Sep 13, 2007)

May be the MS-fanboys shud read why the companies r objecting to it. Again an instance where MS doesn't care bt the user's permissions....a sorry state of closed source softwares indeed!


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## gxsaurav (Sep 13, 2007)

mediator said:
			
		

> May be the MS-fanboys shud read why the companies r objecting to it. Again an instance where MS doesn't care bt the user's permissions....a sorry state of closed source softwares indeed!



I would have questioned them if it was an update related to something else other then Windows Update. But since i m using legit Windows & WGA doesn't affect me, I m not worried about anything.


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## din (Sep 13, 2007)

No GX, it is not about the type of update or what it updates and what info it sends or you are genuine user or not.

It is all about privacy.

Its just like you buy a TV and when you start watching India-Pak cricket the repair guy enteres into your house without asking permission and doing something in your TV and leaves without telling you anything. Won't you get annoyed ?


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## mediator (Sep 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I would have questioned them if it was an update related to something else other then Windows Update. But since i m using legit Windows & WGA doesn't affect me, I m not worried about anything.


 Explain in ur own words in not less than 150 words, what do u understand by the first 2 lines of the post which I bolded and increased the font size of.



> [FONT=Arial,Sans-serif]*Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, *[/FONT]*even when the users have turned off auto-updates.
> *


Is automatic updates a joke? Or disabling/enabling means nuthing? If so, then do fill in ur suggestion box and tell MS to remove a "null" functionality called automatic updates, if they dont have brains to understand wat it is!!

Besides, we r not concerned if MS-fanboys r worried or not, but companies and end-users r affected!! I guess MS doesn't know how to respect privacy!! Terrible!


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## chesss (Sep 13, 2007)

It would be interesting to know how are they doing this.
I have disabled the automatic updates & background intelligence services, will this still work? or does it require those servicese to be running?


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## alsiladka (Sep 13, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> I would have questioned them if it was an update related to something else other then Windows Update. But since i m using legit Windows & WGA doesn't affect me, I m not worried about anything.


 
It is not this update that is worrying people GX, it is the method in which the implemented this update.
If they could release this update without any notification to the user, they could release any other update on their own without the permission of the user.

It is this fact which is worrying, a complete disregard for user's privacy.


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## Who (Sep 14, 2007)

Don't make such a fuss, anyway here is the reason why they do it..


> How Windows Update Keeps Itself Up-to-Date
> 
> There have been some questions raised about how we service the Windows Update components and concerns expressed about software installing silently. I want to clarify the issue so that everyone can better understand why the self-updating of Windows Update acts the way it does.
> 
> ...



 source :- *blogs.technet.com/mu/archive/2007/09/13/how-windows-update-keeps-itself-up-to-date.aspx


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

Good info

But we can see some sensible questions / comments which are un-answered in the same source (Microsoft Update Product Team Blog).


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## praka123 (Sep 14, 2007)

privacy=0% concern? from M$


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## aku (Sep 14, 2007)

god!... people have even stopped going through the whole post before posting a reply... <sigh>
common.. they are just updating "windows update"... the app reqd. to update windows... nothing else...
only pirates should be bothered about this... not legit user like saurav and me...
just like saurav said.
then from where does the question of privacy comes from???

ps. well this goes without saying,the latest trend: blame ms for anything they do... and you are a wiser guy (really ???)


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

@akuCRACKER

LOL. from your own post - _"god!... people have even stopped going through the whole post before posting a reply... <sigh>"_

Go through the above posts. *It is NOT about piracy*. It is about privacy. It does not matter whether you are a legit user or not. It matters why MS does something (whetever it is) without user permission. And now they claim it is only for win update. Whats gurantee thats the same will not happen for other files.

Just read my example 7 posts above. You are a legit /genuine / proud TV owner. You love some repair guy come into your house at midnight without your permission, does something to your TV while you are watching it and leaves without telling you anything ? Don't you think thats something related to privacy ? Or you will not bothered ? ?

Privacy is an important thing. Whether it is MS or any other company, they should let the user know (first) whats going on before doing something.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 14, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> You are a legit /genuine / proud TV owner. You love some repair guy come into your house at midnight without your permission, does something to your TV while you are watching it and leaves without telling you anything ? Don't you think thats something related to privacy ? Or you will not bothered



I will be bothered only if...

1) TV stops working after he leaves

2) I m doing something private & don't want to be disturbed.



> they should let the user know (first) whats going on before doing something.



Dear customer, we are informing u that u need to update windows right now & boot so that u can update windows after u decide whether u want to update or not. So U need to update Windows update first anyway, whether u like it or not. if u don't want us to update at all....plz go to start menu - > run->Services.msc & disable the service "Windows Update" & "Background intelligent transfer service" . Do u want us to update Windows update so that u can update windows?

Yes,  no

Yeah, looks like a nice error message to me.


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## aku (Sep 14, 2007)

the word "pricay" comes into play as only pirates will be worried about privacy regarding this matter... and if ur thinking that i'm contradicting my own statements... therez nuthin i've gotta say... 
and more ova... they are just updating the updating app... so.. where is the harm????
and by your example... some one comes into my house and starts to repair my tv... this example doesnt evn come close... by doing that the tv guy is disturbing me... invading my privacy.. but whn ms updates its "windows update" tool... it doesnt even remotely affect my privacy... 
can u just temme how is it affecting your privacy??? plese i wanna kno...
are they (speaking about the updated files) stealing your docs??? keeping watch of sites you visit??? 
and please dont justify this by sayin '_...what if other files are also being updated like this..._'
they are not being updated like this... and thats enough! (you cant go with 'what if's'.
and once again i would like to say... only a pirated sw user should be worried with win update files being updated.
as long as my personal files and info stored in the comp. is secure... therez no question of privacy... adn updating windows update files DO NOT affect my workflow adn anything at all...

@gx_saurav well said man... 

ps. sorry for the poor formatting... running outta time


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

Now whatabout this message



> Dear A****
> 
> We changed some of the files in your system. We are not going to tell you what it is. We sent many of your information to various places (ah, don't you remember what XP was doing long back when connected to net ) and we prefer nt to reveal that either. It may be your PC, it may be the Os you bought, but you do not have any right on the files and we do not care about your privacy at all, you have no option other than pressing any of the buttons below. Thank you for using ****
> 
> Buttons - Yes / Yes



@akuCRACKER

LOL, man, do not mix it up again. Privacy has nothing to do with Piracy. Both are different.

Whether you use a pirated software or a genuine software, updating that or making changes to that without your permission always involves - invading your privacy.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 14, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Now whatabout this message



MS clearly mentioned that they are only updating Windows Update without notifying & not sending any other info anywhere, neither they are stealing your documents or pics. Those who did the research also said that MS only updated the Windows Update files & nothing else. If they wanted they could have easily included WGA too like this.

Like I have mentioned, if u r so paranoid that disable the service. Simple.


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## praka123 (Sep 14, 2007)

^nice example @Din.but winboys dont care!they need an example like honeymoon in public is justified  now i hope they understand what privacy stands for!.wtever even if ur beloved M$ also too infringes ur rights u have to react and accept the points @OP posted.
I appreciate @alsiladka be above these feelings.

and reg bashing pirates using windows,they make the majority as u know.and dont expect me there!I am a proud GNU/Linux user OK?


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

gx_saurav said:
			
		

> Like I have mentioned, if u r so paranoid that disable the service. Simple.



Hmm I think news says -

*Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates.*

So evenif I disable it, it auto updates


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## gxsaurav (Sep 14, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Hmm I think news says -
> 
> *Microsoft has begun patching files on Windows XP and Vista without users' knowledge, even when the users have turned off auto-updates.*
> 
> So evenif I disable it, it auto updates



No, people disabled Windows Update via the control panel, not the service. If u disable the service Windows update will not even start & work.

& what is MS updating here? An update to update windows.


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## Who (Sep 14, 2007)

well no offense but i think people haven't read the information given by Nate Clinton clearly. anyway here is paragraph



> Before closing, I would like to address another misconception that I have seen publically reported. WU does not automatically update itself when Automatic Updates is turned off, this only happens when the customer is using WU to automatically install upgrades or to be notified of updates.



 so if disabled the automatic updates in the service manager or even in the control panel this should stop bothering people who have privacy concerns, Have a nice day.


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## entrana (Sep 14, 2007)

whats the point of disabling it?


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

Well, I think I will stop ...

@smit

The news said - 
_
"In recent days, Windows Update (WU) started altering files on users' systems without displaying any dialog box to request permission. The only files that have been reportedly altered to date are nine small executables on XP and nine on Vista that are used by WU itself. Microsoft is patching these files silently, even if auto-updates have been disabled on a particular PC."_

So, I think you are wrong.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Sep 14, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> Well, I think I will stop ...
> 
> @smit
> 
> ...


Well it doesn't mater to me if MS Updates Windows without my permission coz as it is i have enabled Automatic Updates and i _trust_ Microsoft . 

And trust is the very base on which a product sells . if you don't trust a company you won't buy it's product , simple . i trust MS and thus i believe that it will not modify the software in a way that could be potentially hazardous to me


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## din (Sep 14, 2007)

sorry, had to came back to post !!

@Zeeshan Quireshi

This is different case. Those who set auto updates enabled, trust MS

But the news was

Microsoft is patching these files silently, *even if auto-updates have been disabled on a particular PC*


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## Who (Sep 14, 2007)

din @ 

 of course i read the news , but the news in false , the update manager of micrsoft *Mr. Nate Clinton himself said " WU does not automatically update itself when Automatic Updates is turned off, this only happens when the customer is using WU to automatically install upgrades or to be notified of updates." *

 news can be rumors , news aren't always true , i mean common you trust some news given by some people on the net but not the update manager of microsoft that ampilies that you don't trust microsoft one bit..& if that's the case its best to switch to linux or mac as they very good are OSes.


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## sakumar79 (Sep 14, 2007)

@din, when they said that "even if auto-updates have been disabled on a particular PC", it seems they meant that option where you say to give notice before install... But if you disable the update service, this will not occur... This info was taken from *blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/121750.asp?from=blog_last3

Excerpt: 





> The use of the phrase "turned off" might suggest that Microsoft was downloading and installing these updates even when people had chosen No. 4, "never check for updates."
> 
> However, I spoke with Dunn on the phone, and he said that's not what he meant to imply. Instead, he was referring to option Nos. 2 and 3.



On the one hand, I can understand MS need to update the update system. Even if you have at some point require manual update, this comes in handy... However, I feel that MS could have avoided a lot of embarrasment by making this known by themselves rather than having it come out this way... I am sure people would have made minimal fuss (there will always be a set of people who will trash MS at every opportunity; always seeing the black side of anything MS does - but this would have been minimal).

Arun


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## gxsaurav (Sep 14, 2007)

From what I see, home users are not worried about these. Microsoft is not stealing information from the computer. What does a home user have to hide? His porn collection or vacation photos?

On the other hand Power users who are worried about this can simply disable the service.

So whats the problem?


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## aku (Sep 14, 2007)

God... did ya evn get it y i (and previously saurav) brought piracy into the topic ???

Anywayz... on the 1st of this month i got myself vista home premium and have been using it since then. I had turned off the windows update feature and i didnt wanted to download any update during the non happy hours. Day before yesterday i got time and turned it on.

The moment i did this i was informed that i needed to update the windows update app itself before  I coulde download any other update.

So, in my case... it didnt update itself automatically.


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## gxsaurav (Sep 14, 2007)

akuCRACKER said:
			
		

> Anywayz... on the 1st of this month i got myself vista home premium and have been using it since then. I had turned off the windows update feature and i didnt wanted to download any update during the non happy hours. Day before yesterday i got time and turned it on.
> 
> The moment i did this i was informed that i needed to update the windows update app itself before  I coulde download any other update.
> 
> So, in my case... it didnt update itself automatically.



Same thing happens in my case. Like I said, if you are extra paranoid about security & privacy then disable the service & it will not update at all. 

Start -> Run -> type "Services.msc". Disable "Windows Update" & "Background Intelligent transfer service" in Vista & nor will Windows be able to download updates or even install downloaded updates.

So if u r paranoid that it will automatically download & install even if the service is disabled , rest assured, it won't be able to install any MSU file without Windows Update service running in Vista.


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## Zeeshan Quireshi (Sep 14, 2007)

din said:
			
		

> sorry, had to came back to post !!
> 
> @Zeeshan Quireshi
> 
> ...


Ya i read that . 

That's why i said i *Trust* microsoft , so i trust that they're not stealing any information from my computer that can potentially be hazardous


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