# Ballmer admits Vista not selling as expected



## NIGHTMARE (Mar 7, 2007)

> New Windows OS to arrive within five years
> 
> Microsoft's Steve Ballmer has pledged that the next version of Windows won't take as long to develop as Vista, which he concedes is not selling according to expectations.
> 
> ...




link



I think the market is at such a saturation point that it'd be very hard to push Vista let alone a "new" OS within 5 years, although I'm one of those people that sees no point of a new OS except being force fed when you buy a new computer.


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## aryayush (Mar 7, 2007)

This is pretty old news.


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## freebird (Mar 7, 2007)

anyways a happy news for OSS fans like Me!


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## Josan (Mar 7, 2007)

vista is the best os dat i hav used nd am planing to buy it right now!!


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## tarey_g (Mar 7, 2007)

When XP came out p2p sharing was not so common, thats why they sold XP very well . Now every single computer user knows where to get stuff from. So only thing they can do is to lower down the price of the OS in the emerging markets where ppl cant buy a 10-16k OS. Perks of having a leagal copy are nice , let more users experience it.


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## jack// ani (Mar 7, 2007)

nice to hear that they admitted the truth, no matter was the reason behind it was.


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## hailgautam (Mar 7, 2007)

Earlier versions of Windows and DOS were brought to market where the environment was conducive for the MS Windows.


alternative OSs did not enjoy wide-spread support by applications, and developers - as like Mac which was considered a multimedia OS, and also it required different hardware.
alternative OSs were not really usable by newbies - as in the case of linux et al.
Windows OSs  were not as expensive as they are now 
previously win 95 was a revolution in a sense that brought a new graphical user interface then win 98 grew on the BSODs of win 95  and all they guys who had win 95 had to upgrade.
XP was way to smart and coming of age.
now linux provides a comfortable alternative not only for experienced users but also for the newbies.
It was way to easy to pirate, so many more people were using so more acceptance of the OS.


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## freebird (Mar 7, 2007)

I cant understand the 7th point,may be i am *BAD* in Angrezi


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## phreak0ut (Mar 7, 2007)

^^Yeah, what do you mean by the 7th point??


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## koolbluez (Mar 7, 2007)

Y ask ballmer for that... I myself told that long back... 
Vista'll not sell that quick. XP ka raaj hai... aur XP ka raaj chalega in India.. @least for another year or so. No doubt.


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## Pathik (Mar 7, 2007)

wait till vista and vga is properly cracked...only then we can see its real popularity...


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## koolbluez (Mar 7, 2007)

^^^ LOL... very true......


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## aryayush (Mar 7, 2007)

Josan said:
			
		

> vista is the best os dat i hav used nd am planing to buy it right now!!


That's primarily because you haven't used Mac OS X yet.


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## freebird (Mar 7, 2007)

!!!


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## aryayush (Mar 7, 2007)

hailgautam said:
			
		

> Earlier versions of Windows and DOS were brought to market where the environment was conducive for the MS Windows.
> 
> 
> alternative OSs did not enjoy wide-spread support by applications, and developers - as like Mac which was considered a multimedia OS, and also it required different hardware.
> ...


The fifth point is wrong. Windows 95 was not the first operating system to bring a graphical user interface. The first operating system with a GUI was the Mac OS in 1984. Microsoft could not copy the Mac OS for all those years because they did not have the rights to do so. They ultimately made Apple's CEO, Gil Amelio sign an agreement that allowed them to copy the Mac OS and then they came out with Windows 95 in, well, 1995. The Mac OS has always been more advanced than Windows and it continues to be today. 

The seventh point is that Windows XP was very easy to pirate and therefore, a lot of people were able to use the operating system and realise that it was good and easy to use.
However, even I don't understand how this would help sales. One out of probably a thousand people would have been righteous enough to actually buy the OS after using and liking the pirated version.


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## jack// ani (Mar 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> That's primarily because you haven't used Mac OS X yet.



exactly, very well said!!


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## Vyasram (Mar 7, 2007)

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49621

^^^ this sells more


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## hailgautam (Mar 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> The fifth point is wrong. Windows 95 was not the first operating system to bring a graphical user interface. The first operating system with a GUI was the Mac OS in 1984. Microsoft could not copy the Mac OS for all those years because they did not have the rights to do so. They ultimately made Apple's CEO, Gil Amelio sign an agreement that allowed them to copy the Mac OS and then they came out with Windows 95 in, well, 1995. The Mac OS has always been more advanced than Windows and it continues to be today.
> 
> The seventh point is that Windows XP was very easy to pirate and therefore, a lot of people were able to use the operating system and realise that it was good and easy to use.
> However, even I don't understand how this would help sales. One out of probably a thousand people would have been righteous enough to actually buy the OS after using and liking the pirated version.


I did not mean Win 95 was the first to bring GUI, I meant fist to bring a proper GUI to win platform. I understand that Win 3.x had GUI,  but it was more like a shell and it ran from the DOS base. 

In fact if I am not wrong, Apple had this legendary Olympics Ad campaign in the 84 LA Olympics where a guy throws an hammer and breaks the large IBM logo kind of thing.....

point 7 - I was referring to the fact that earlier versions of windows were easier to pirate, which had led to wider acceptance among the users and hence more sales.....How it helps? well......if you see more people using an os you will have more support for that platform....and agin more support for an platform will result in the more use of an OS...a cyclic affair...
__________
the main reason why apple failed though being the easiest and probably best OS ever to be used from the beginning is that it used a closed format hardware - which meant less piracy for the software.... and in effect smaller user group.  In a way the open architecture of PC has enabled PC and then consequently MS to have such large share of the market.


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## freebird (Mar 7, 2007)

tend to agree with u r points @hailgotham:
esp :


			
				hail said:
			
		

> the main reason why apple failed though being the easiest and probably best OS ever to be used from the beginning is that it used a closed format hardware - which meant less piracy for the software.... and in effect smaller user group. In a way the open architecture of PC has enabled PC and then consequently MS to have such large share of the market.


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## aryayush (Mar 7, 2007)

Everyone knows that the closed platform approach and the high prices in the past has been the reason for Apple's low market share.
However, Apple has not "failed". Mac sales are consistently on the rise, and even if they fall, it is not the sales that determine how good a product is, but the user satisfaction. And by the number of fans of the Mac platorm out there, you can easily conclude how good the machines are. As long as Apple keeps making fabulous product and we, the users, are happy, it will not have failed.
Apple is the only company in the computer field that has "got it right".



			
				hailgautam said:
			
		

> In fact if I am not wrong, Apple had this legendary Olympics Ad campaign in the 84 LA Olympics where a guy throws an hammer and breaks the large IBM logo kind of thing.....


Uh, it wasn't related to the Olympics. It was the "legendary" Super Bowl commercial.


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## hailgautam (Mar 7, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Everyone knows that the closed platform approach and the high prices in the past has been the reason for Apple's low market share.
> However, Apple has not "failed". Mac sales are consistently on the rise, and even if they fall, it is not the sales that determine how good a product is, but the user satisfaction. And by the number of fans of the Mac platorm out there, you can easily conclude how good the machines are. As long as Apple keeps making fabulous product and we, the users, are happy, it will not have failed.
> Apple is the only company in the computer field that has "got it right".
> 
> Uh, it wasn't related to the Olympics. It was the "legendary" Super Bowl commercial.



Apple Failed or not is subjective.....and any discussion on it will sure to cause flams. But cosnidering the fact that Apple came out with a GUI at the first place way back in 1984, it is just ironical that MS has gained more out of GUI instead. There was a time when Jobs was removed from the Apple Board, the product porfile was dwndling and Apple was loosing customers. 

If I am not wrong it was the 2nd term of Steve Jobs that has seen the inovative product development starting with the iMac, then came the iPod.....but there was time when the picture was not so rosy.....


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 7, 2007)

well of course its not selling well as expected.
first off its way 2 much money.
and people don't want to give MS any more money if they install
vista over 3 times. people are happy with xp and MS should have waited
another year to launch vista

Problem is in big hardware requirements, but soon as new pc come then Vista will go with them, for now WinXP is enough for 80% of users.

Vista isn't expensive when you consider that 10,000 peoples working 5years on it, and 10 billion $ project coast.

But Microsoft expect to bring back $11.5 billion operating profits from Windows Vista before end 2007.


The best thing about Vista is that it's not on my computer at home.

Complete waste of money that doesn't offer much of anything for the price they are asking.


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## mehulved (Mar 8, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> The fifth point is wrong. Windows 95 was not the first operating system to bring a graphical user interface. The first operating system with a GUI was the Mac OS in 1984.


*imrl.usu.edu/OSLO/technology_writing/004_003.htm
Now I wonder who is right - gautam, you or that article? Someone help me decide.


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## aryayush (Mar 8, 2007)

I was talking about the first graphical user interface on a commercially available operating system. I know Apple got the inspiration from Xerox PARC. And then Microsoft from Apple.


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## hailgautam (Mar 8, 2007)

And I was solely referring to Windows. If i am not wrong, Xerox PARC was wronged many times like the invention of the Mouse, though was invented at Xerox initially Apple and then MS made merry on the invention... 

We both were right at the our stand points ....however narrow (according to some) may it be


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## gxsaurav (Mar 8, 2007)

Vista will be pirated soon, all it needs is time. It's made by coders which are humans which means bugs & flaws will be there

The Paradox crack is working fine here. Once Vista is cracked & people understand that Aero Glass isn't everyhting & Vista runs fine on even older hardware, the market of Vista will raise a lot

One thing is good though, at my friends computer shop most of the people coming to buy a new branded or assambled PC/Laptop are asking weather it can run Vista fine or not. Trust me this has raised his sales of GFX Cards, Geforce 7300 & 6600LE are in demand again  cos they are cheapest. He is also advertising it nicely using banner & posters all over his shop....with a laptop giving live demo


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## Manshahia (Mar 8, 2007)

tarey_g said:
			
		

> When XP came out p2p sharing was not so common, thats why they sold XP very well . Now every single computer user knows where to get stuff from. So only thing they can do is to lower down the price of the OS in the emerging markets where ppl cant buy a 10-16k OS. Perks of having a leagal copy are nice , let more users experience it.



i think the price of Windows Vista Home edition is $200(approx. ra 9000)...


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## EagerBeaver (Mar 8, 2007)

The problemo is the hardware upgrading costs..................


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## Manshahia (Mar 8, 2007)

yeah thats rite..


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 9, 2007)

Not surprising. It's a couple of years late and is a big resource hog. It has some neat features and DX10 will force gamers to move over.

But that's it. If you don't game I suggest you checking out Linux Ubuntu. It has drivers for most hardware and works as good as Windows for Office-work(Open-office among others), instant messaging(AMSN and GAIM), web surfing(firefox).
It demands a bit tinkering if you want to run Windows applications through emulation but IMO it's worth it.
The biggest "selling" point is that it's free.
Just download the ISO and burn it to a CD. You can always try booting from it and try it out (it's fully functional) before installing the OS.
Download


If you are ready to try something different it's for you.


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## runeet (Mar 9, 2007)

hope Microsoft get screwed good for pricng the windows so high, they should regret this high pricing for the rest of their little life-span.


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## aryayush (Mar 9, 2007)

"little life-span"? LITTLE LIFE-SPAN!!! :shocked:

Are you sure you are talking about Microsoft? The Microsoft Corporation!? 

They've been in the business for more than twenty years and are still going strong.


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## Ankur Gupta (Mar 9, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> "little life-span"? LITTLE LIFE-SPAN!!! :shocked:
> 
> Are you sure you are talking about Microsoft? The Microsoft Corporation!?
> 
> They've been in the business for more than twenty years and are still going strong.



Nice to hear that from you


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## hailgautam (Mar 9, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> "little life-span"? LITTLE LIFE-SPAN!!! :shocked:
> 
> Are you sure you are talking about Microsoft? The Microsoft Corporation!?
> 
> They've been in the business for more than twenty years and are still going strong.



True - they are bigboys - Vista is nothing but a small hiccup - which they will manage in the long run. They have diverse interests in various software and some little know projects which earns good money. How many of you know that they have a Accenture or Bearning Ponit type of Consultancy Business going on which is larger than many many companies. Large portion of Indian Software Co like TCS and smaller Company's  projects are outsourced via MS.


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## runeet (Mar 10, 2007)

hailgautam said:
			
		

> True - they are bigboys - Vista is nothing but a small hiccup - which they will manage in the long run. They have diverse interests in various software and some little know projects which earns good money. How many of you know that they have a Accenture or Bearning Ponit type of Consultancy Business going on which is larger than many many companies. Large portion of Indian Software Co like TCS and smaller Company's  projects are outsourced via MS.



Its not just a hiccup but a major cough, thats why they are marketing it so heavily. Did u watch that program that they entirely sponsored for marketing vista in India. Man its a joke such atrociously priced products gonna sell in India.
Even the big companies wont buy it not bcoz of the price but bcoz its a resource hog. Above it all its not even that secure.


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 12, 2007)

1. Microsoft force you to buy Vista.
2. Sony force you to buy blu-ray.
3. Its all about money.


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

NIGHTMARE said:
			
		

> 1. Microsoft force you to buy Vista.
> 2. Sony force you to buy blu-ray.
> 3. Its all about money.



Plz come out of such misconception. Microsoft doesn't forces anyone to buy Vista. What, did they came to your home & told you to buy Vista Ultimate on Gun point.

If you are happy with Linux\Windows XP\MacOS then stick to it. Since you are happy it means you have ironed out all the problems with those OS, so whats the point of switching. 

Again, Sony is not forcing anyone to buy Blu-ray disks, if u don't like it don't but it. Simple as that.


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 12, 2007)

Microsoft dont force Vista on anyone, since it's being utilized by the games (DX10)


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

Yes, DirectX 10 & Vista are made for each other. The new Device driver model cannot be ported to XP without serious chage in the kernal which is not an option. DirectX 10 needs this new WDDM to work so again it cannot be ported to Windows XP.

However, here is the thing. DirectX 10 games are not out there right now. Also no game manufacture will make a game without a DirectX 9c path atleast for the next 2 years, which is quite a long time. There are thousands of DX9 cards out there in the market & homes, you think the the game publishers will leave this market at once.

If your main purpose is to play games in Vista in DX 10, you need a DX 10 graphics card & even Windows Vista Home Basic will do & it comes cheap also. Like I said, you need to come out of misconception & be aware that the expensive Vista Ultimate is not the necessity for everything. MS has given you many choices to chose from.


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 12, 2007)

Thats what i was saying..nothing new, everything is forced, beacouse rich peoples wants more $$$, forced..


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

NIGHTMARE said:
			
		

> Thats what i was saying..nothing new, everything is forced, beacouse rich peoples wants more $$$, forced..


 
What forced? Not everyone is a gamer, not every one playes DX 10 games or requires a GPU based User Interface. I have said it many time, still saying again & again & again, if you are having no problems with XP SP2 then stick to it. No need to upgrade. Nothing is forced on you...


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## aryayush (Mar 12, 2007)

Can you upgrade to Vista directly from Windows 98 using the upgrade version? No!

So, it most likely won't be possible to upgrade from XP directly to Vienna. Am I right? (But I guess the upgrade cost of Vista combined with the upgrade cost of Vienna would amount to the cost of the full fledged version of Vienna anyway.)


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## gxsaurav (Mar 12, 2007)

aryayush said:
			
		

> Can you upgrade to Vista directly from Windows 98 using the upgrade version? No!
> 
> So, it most likely won't be possible to upgrade from XP directly to Vienna. Am I right? (But I guess the upgrade cost of Vista combined with the upgrade cost of Vienna would amount to the cost of the full fledged version of Vienna anyway.)


 
When was Windows 98 released? 1998, when is Vista released 2007. Also can u run Vista on a Pentium 2 (Windows 98 era hardware), well....this is not a valid justification of wrong upgradation


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 14, 2007)

Lets get back on topic, which is Vista

In business terms MS screwed up because if they actually did some thorough market research they would have seen that everyone is pretty much content with XP at the moment. They also would have learned that less than 50% of the market is STILL computer illiterate. Sure a lot of people know how to use windows but I doubt that all those people also know how to install a new OS or know which parts to upgrade in order to run VISTA smoothly.

Its this lack of research is why MS is messing up. someone or some group from MS are going to lose their jobs for this and rightfully so. MS is going to lose money for a little while and worse, they are going to have to reduce the prices of VISTA in order to convince the people to make the purchase. Good for us, but it hurts MS' profit margins.MS wont be making this mistake again...


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

NIGHTMARE said:
			
		

> Lets get back on topic, which is Vista
> 
> In business terms MS screwed up because if they actually did some thorough market research they would have seen that everyone is pretty much content with XP at the moment. They also would have learned that less than 50% of the market is STILL computer illiterate. Sure a lot of people know how to use windows but I doubt that all those people also know how to install a new OS or know which parts to upgrade in order to run VISTA smoothly.
> 
> Its this lack of research is why MS is messing up. someone or some group from MS are going to lose their jobs for this and rightfully so. MS is going to lose money for a little while and worse, they are going to have to reduce the prices of VISTA in order to convince the people to make the purchase. Good for us, but it hurts MS' profit margins.MS wont be making this mistake again...



Bussiness do not upgrade unless they find a compelling reason. Convergys is still runing Windows 2000 in there training campus in Convergys Gurgaon. 

Even my dad's office is runing Windows XP & will run for many years to come....MS isn't screwed. Bussiness paid for XP & they will get support for it.


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## kirangp (Mar 15, 2007)

NIGHTMARE said:
			
		

> Lets get back on topic, which is Vista
> 
> In business terms MS screwed up because if they actually did some thorough market research they would have seen that everyone is pretty much content with XP at the moment. They also would have learned that less than 50% of the market is STILL computer illiterate. Sure a lot of people know how to use windows but I doubt that all those people also know how to install a new OS or know which parts to upgrade in order to run VISTA smoothly.
> 
> Its this lack of research is why MS is messing up. someone or some group from MS are going to lose their jobs for this and rightfully so. MS is going to lose money for a little while and worse, they are going to have to reduce the prices of VISTA in order to convince the people to make the purchase. Good for us, but it hurts MS' profit margins.MS wont be making this mistake again...



MS hasnt made any mistake...It has taken them 6 long years to get Vista out,so it is justifiable about the prices according to them.MS is a company & its bosses want the company to be the richest all the time.There are many features as told by gx_saurav which are worth dying for.Many are hesitant because they are accustomed with XP...Same was the scenario when XP was released & nobody wanted to upgrade & after 2 years nobody even looked at 2000 or ME & it will happen again.Patience is the key & MS has done a good job by releasing 5-6 versions of Vista so users have the flexibility of installing whichever version they like unlike XP & according to me they have learnt a lot from Xp's mistakes.It was the first OS to be criticized heavily in all departments especially security.
               And about the price obviously MS will have to reduce the price to attract a certain segment of people(like me..hehe) but that wont be in the near future.It will take around 2 yrs for prices to fall not before that I guess but they should see that they dont release Vienna very early otherwise it will hit their profits


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## gxsaurav (Mar 15, 2007)

Like I said before, Business does not need to upgrade if they don't find the reason. I don't find any problem due to this for MS. It is the decision of business.

From my own point of view business usually run two or 3 application simultaneously anyway. They don't need anything beyond Vista Home basic (retail). Although they will go with Vista business edition which is purchased in bulks, which means lower total cost of purchase.


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## rajasekharan (Mar 21, 2007)

well, i am not moving to it until everything is smooth .., an sp1 should do the trick...till then its xp for me....


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## gxsaurav (Mar 21, 2007)

rajasekharan said:
			
		

> well, i am not moving to it until everything is smooth .., an sp1 should do the trick...till then its xp for me....


 
Stick to what u got, by that time there will be stable drivers for hardware too

P.S. - did u made that bot of your avtar


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## kirangp (Mar 22, 2007)

Hey fellows...a dealer in SP road,Bangalore told me that Vista prices are dropping by April 15th by atleast 3K..can anyone confirm??


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## gxsaurav (Mar 22, 2007)

kirangp said:
			
		

> Hey fellows...a dealer in SP road,Bangalore told me that Vista prices are dropping by April 15th by atleast 3K..can anyone confirm??


 
I don't think so.


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## rajasekharan (Mar 23, 2007)

@gx_saurav....i got some collection of small "avatars"...u need any????? 
__________
well, oops....i cant send you any ...am on my sweet GPRS, waiting for the reliance connection , which will happen on 27th or 28th..., if u want some , u know where to look at ..."projectw"....thats were i got this from....look under the wallpaper, scripts section....


by the way...my next one will be made by me "exclusive"....


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## gxsaurav (Mar 23, 2007)

^^^^ cool, make one yourself. i made this one myself too, some 4 years back


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## rajasekharan (Mar 24, 2007)

^^^yours looks simple and nice.... , i love simple things.


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## NIGHTMARE (Mar 29, 2007)

Windows Vista... Pah, what a joke.

Yet another poorly designed, unfinished, and bug-ridden piece of M$ rubbish. I'll stick to Ubuntu and XP for now, thanks!


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## gxsaurav (Mar 29, 2007)

NIGHTMARE said:
			
		

> Windows Vista... Pah, what a joke.
> 
> Yet another poorly designed, unfinished, and bug-ridden piece of M$ rubbish. I'll stick to Ubuntu and XP for now, thanks!


 
I guess you don't have anything proper to say thats why bumping this thread like this.


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