# 8800 GT shot to hell, need to upgrade card + system... suggestions please? :)



## kiranb28 (Aug 24, 2010)

So my 18 month old (I think) MSI 8800GT has been shot to hell, and I need to upgrade.

*My Complete Rig:*

CPU - Athlon X2 6000+ *(need to replace)*
Motherboard - Asus M2N-E *(need to replace)*
GPU - MSI 8800GT (512 MB) *(need to replace)*
RAM - Kingston 4X1GB DDR2-666
DVDR Drive- Dead *(need to replace)*
Monitor - BenQ 2200
SMPS - Generic 500w
Cooling - none *(need to add some fans, etc - need suggestions...)*

*Budget: 25k*


My initial choice was a GTX 460 but, I guess the CPU is going to end up being a bottleneck.

SO.... with a budget of *25k*, could you guys suggest what/how I should do this upgrade? The GTX 460 is going to set me back about 14k, which leaves me with 11k for the Processor + Motherboard + DVDR Drive + Cooling to play with.


Am planning to head to Nehru Place tomorrow - *anyone who can recommend a trusted dealer who would give a good deal + put the whole rig together would be appreciated.*

Thank you
Kiran


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Aug 24, 2010)

if you want GTX460 you need to change the psu as mentioned -

Athlon II X3 435 2.9GHz @ 3.5k
Biostar TA785G3 HD @ 4k
2GB DDR3 1333MHz @ 2.5k
Zotac GTX460 768MB @ 12k
LG H55N DVD @ 1k
Corsair VX450W @ 3.7k

Total - 26.7k


----------



## SlashDK (Aug 24, 2010)

instead of buying new ram he should keep his old as its 4gb and should outperform the DDR3 one. Here's my suggestion - 

AMD Athlon ii x4 630 - 4.9k
Biostar 780G - 3k
GTX 460 1GB - 13.5k
Corsair VX 450 - 3.7k
DVD writer from lite-on/samsung - 1k
Total - 26.1k


----------



## coderunknown (Aug 24, 2010)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> if you want GTX460 you need to change the psu as mentioned -
> 
> *Athlon II X3 435 2.9GHz @ 3.5k
> Biostar TA785G3 HD @ 4k*
> ...



change these:

1. Athlon II X4 630 ---> 4.5k
2. Gigabyte GA-MA-785GMT-US2H or Gigabyte GA-MA880GM(A)-UD2H ---> 4.5k (can settle for Biostar also. but heard its hard to find).
3. Sapphire/PowerColor/MSI HAWX HD5770 1Gb ---> 9k (appx value)
4. may keep that PSU or reduce it to a CX400W (400W will run that config with no problem) ---> 2.8k
5. 3X120mm Cooler Master non-led Fan ---> Rs.700

TOTAL: 24.8k. 

do try squeeze in 4Gb ram for an extra performance boost. config given by Jas is good but missed out on a few important points. so i gave a modified config.

Get these parts from: SMC International, Nehru Place. also avoid buying the Cooler Master Extreme Power or any other sub par PSU.


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Aug 24, 2010)

sam yar, gtx460 is way better than hd5770, and going x3 way wont be too bad i suppose. atleast 450w for GTX460 is needed


----------



## coderunknown (Aug 24, 2010)

Cybertonic said:


> instead of buying new ram he should keep his old as its 4gb and should outperform the DDR3 one.



his ram is 667Mhz. slow. so better get a new one. else his proccy as well as GTX460. both will suffer.


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Aug 24, 2010)

^^and thats why i suggested him a ddr3.


----------



## coderunknown (Aug 24, 2010)

Jaskanwar Singh said:


> sam yar, gtx460 is way better than hd5770, and going x3 way wont be too bad i suppose. atleast 450w for GTX460 is needed



well yes. X3 won't be a bad choice. & i agree, a 450W will be required for GTX460. else BOOM. but GTX460 + the 400W unit cost 4k extra over what i suggested. 4k isn't a easy value. let OP decide what he wants exactly. we gave him all available options.


----------



## Jaskanwar Singh (Aug 24, 2010)

ya, upto the op to decide if he can spend 27k or not.


----------



## SlashDK (Aug 24, 2010)

won't the DDR2 be good enough? It will have more bandwidth as well as lower latency and double capacity. Shouldn't it offset the lower frequency?


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 24, 2010)

Thank you all for your quick replies. My comments are below.



Cybertonic said:


> instead of buying new ram he should keep his old as its 4gb and should outperform the DDR3 one. Here's my suggestion -
> 
> AMD Athlon ii x4 630 - 4.9k
> Biostar 780G - 3k
> ...




This seems like the best option so far. I think the 450w PSU I have already should be good enough, thus cutting down the cost by 3k.

Can I perhaps put this 3k into getting a slightly speedier processor? What would you suggest?



Cybertonic said:


> won't the DDR2 be good enough? It will have more bandwidth as well as lower latency and double capacity. Shouldn't it offset the lower frequency?



Curious about this as well - I think the 4G RAM I have is enough, no?

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

Oh and yes - could you guys refer me to any particular person/store/contact in Nehru Place who can put all of the hardware together for me and give me a good deal overall?

---------- Post added at 11:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------




Sam.Shab said:


> Get these parts from: SMC International, Nehru Place. also avoid buying the Cooler Master Extreme Power or any other sub par PSU.




Didnt see this before, or would have responded to it - sorry.

Can/should I take your reference, or are the prices you mentioned pretty standard (I don't want to get ripped off or overquoted, seeing how i dont have much experience with buying from NP)?

Any particular person at SMC I should speak with?

---------- Post added at 11:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------

Based on all feedback here, my final list looks something like the following:

1. Corsair VX450 - 3600

2. Athlon II X4 630 - 4500

3. Gigabyte GA-MA-785GMT-US2H or Gigabyte GA-MA880GM(A)-UD2H - 4500
or Biostar TA785G3 HD - 4000

4. GTX 460 1GB - 13500

5. 3X120mm Cooler Master non-led Fan ---> Rs.700

6. DVDR Drive - 1000



Total:27,800 - 3000 more than what I expected.


Good to go?


----------



## coderunknown (Aug 25, 2010)

^^ Generic PSU are best for fireworks. get this new one. else your card mayn't survive the first day also.

also get fast ram. DDR3 got more bandwidth. more data transfer rate. whereas DDR2 is slow. add to it, your is 667Mhz. way too slow.

about SMC:

i got my system from there (through Courier). if you get the parts mentioned here. total cost may increase by 100 or 200. not more than that.

ask for Sachin or the store owner. forgotten his name. also tell him you from ThinkDigit forum & the members here referred the store to you. you should get valid pricing.

about the pricing:

Corsair VX450W ---> they main distributor of Cooler Master products in India. so Corsair mayn't be available. still pricing should be same as mentioned. also avoid Cooler Master Extreme Power.

Athlon II X4 630 ---> ask them about 630 & 635 pricing. than choose accordingly.

the Biostar mayn't be available. also the Gigabyte board (latter one) may have that A or mayn't. actually there exist 2 board. 880GMA-UD2H & 880GM-UD2H. one cost ~4.5k & the other close to 6k.

for the card, get Zotac. avoid Palit at all cost. 

for fan all you need is 1 intake fan & 1 exhaust fan. 120mm if possible. this will offer sufficient cooling.

But you missed a very important part. RAM. all the 3 boards based on DDR3 (socket AM3) & hence will require DDR3 memory. so you may rethink your planned config. can go for HD5770 instead of GTX460 & Corsair CX400W/FSP Saga II 500W instead of the Corsair VX450W.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Sam.Shab said:


> ^^ Generic PSU are best for fireworks. get this new one. else your card mayn't survive the first day also.
> 
> also get fast ram. DDR3 got more bandwidth. more data transfer rate. whereas DDR2 is slow. add to it, your is 667Mhz. way too slow.
> 
> ...





Getting a bit puzzled now; ideal case would be for me to buy everything from SMC (thus probably lowering the price a bit?)

That being said, let's break it down from their website:

*Processor - Athlon X4 635* - INR 5100
AMD Athlon? II X4 635

*Graphics Card - MSI N 460 GTX Cyclone* - INR 13600
Would not like to compromise on this.
MSI N 460 GTX CYCLONE

*RAM*
Please suggest which (most cost effective yet sufficient for this build) should I get? 4GB, I assume... right?

*SMPS and Motherboard*
If I get a VX450 and the Mobo you mentioned from an outside shop, will SMC be willing to put everything together for me?

All in all, I need to:
1. Format my system (unless I can keep the data on my two HD's without having to re-format - can you confirm this?)
2. Put everything together
3. Test everything then and there before I take it home (I stay in Gurgaon, 45 mins from NP)

Will SMC be willing to do the above for me on-the-spot?


*Conclusion*
FIXED AMOUNT - 20,500 (breakdown as follows):
CPU + Graphics Card = 18,700
DVDR Drive = 1,000
FANS = 800

STILL NEED: 
(Budget left = 9,000 (slightly higher than original)

Power Supply
RAM
Motherboard

Can you help fit the above three within that 9k from SMC's store? 

---------- Post added at 01:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 AM ----------

One more quick question... for the amount i'm paying for the processor, wouldn't it be better to get a Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition?

Would the motherboard you suggested support it? Or should I stick with the 635?


----------



## Cool Buddy (Aug 25, 2010)

Why do you think a dual core phenom would be better than a quad core Athlon?

If you want GTX 460, you'll have to increase your budget by 2-3k or settle for a tri-core athlon as Jas suggested. I think this 2K you can get by selling your old proccy+mobo+RAM. I think you can sell the old RAM for Rs. 400-500 a piece (each 1 GB). seek help in the bazaar section.

And don't even think of retaining that generic PSU for your powerful system, their rating is false, they don't have any safety features for power surge etc., there is too much voltage fluctuation in their output, their efficiency is pathetic etc. etc. Want me to elaborate?


----------



## VarDOS (Aug 25, 2010)

Athlon X4 635 will give way better performance than the X2 555BE. Although X2 555BE is in the unlocking stuff it doesn't give the performance as the X4 Athlon. Only there is difference in the speed. The Phenom X2 555BE runs @ 3.2GHz while the Athlon X4 635 @ 2.9GHz which doesn't matters at all. 

Even though you go for X2 and unlock it you may face some problems in the future as the HSF for X2 is designed for 2 cores which cannot handle the 4 cores. Also the unlocking depends on your luck Phenom X2 555BE has 93% chance of unlocking while the Phenom X2 550BE has 80% chance.

If you want VFM better go for the Athlon X4 635


FIX : Athlon X4 635 + Biostar TA785G3 HD as your base parts.

but you should compromise over the GTX460 its increasing the budget like HELL. If GTX460 is selected then you should not compromise over the PSU go only for VX450 which will cost abt 17.1k (Combo)

The alternative for GTX460 is HD5770 costing about 9k + PSU like FPS Saga can handle it. Which will reduce the price of the system by 5k.

Final Config 
Athlon X4 635 - 5.1k
Biostar TA785G3 HD - 4k
GTX460 - 13.5k
Corsair VX450 - 3.6k

Around 26k + RAM + FANS + DVD/RW

Increasing the budget to 30k will do it.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Varad Dilip Choudhari said:


> Athlon X4 635 will give way better performance than the X2 555BE. Although X2 555BE is in the unlocking stuff it doesn't give the performance as the X4 Athlon. Only there is difference in the speed. The Phenom X2 555BE runs @ 3.2GHz while the Athlon X4 635 @ 2.9GHz which doesn't matters at all.
> 
> Even though you go for X2 and unlock it you may face some problems in the future as the HSF for X2 is designed for 2 cores which cannot handle the 4 cores. Also the unlocking depends on your luck Phenom X2 555BE has 93% chance of unlocking while the Phenom X2 550BE has 80% chance.
> 
> ...





Thanks Dilip. I've increased my budget slightly to get a better Chassis as well - is the below fine?


1. Corsair VX450
3,700

2. MSI N GTX 460 Cyclone
13,600 (total 17,300)

3. Athlon X4 635
5,100 (total 22,400)

4. 4GB Corsair XMS3
or
GSkill F3 RAMS 1333mhz
5,000 (total 27,900)

5. DVDR Drive (Samsung)
1000

6. Extra Cooling (Intake + Exhaust) - 120mm
800

7. Cooler Master Elite 430
2,675 (TOTAL 31,875)

8. Biostar TA785G3 HD
4,000 
or
Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-US2H
5,600 


*FINAL*

Option 1 - With Biostar TA785G3 HD
35,875

Option 2 - With Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-US2H
37,475


----------



## funkysourav (Aug 25, 2010)

@kiranb28
is your graphics card damaged or still working?


> So my 18 month old (I think) MSI 8800GT has been shot to hell, and I need to upgrade.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

funkysourav said:


> @kiranb28
> is your graphics card damaged or still working?



It's still working fine - apologies for the title of this thread, it's a bit misleading. It's more that BC2, Mafia and other games rape my system and thus, need the upgrade


----------



## funkysourav (Aug 25, 2010)

Kiranb28 said:
			
		

> It's still working fine - apologies for the title of this thread, it's a bit misleading. It's more that BC2, Mafia and other games rape my system and thus, need the upgrade


well that wasn't because your GPU was underpowered or something
your current cpu was holding it back

anyway good move selling your old parts now
saw your for sale thread in techenclave
i was confused as you mentioned your gpu "shot to hell"
but setting up a for sale thread of the same


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Could someone also confirm... will I need to format my Hard Drives when I upgrade, or can I retain everything and plug the HDs into the new hardware and i'm good to go?


----------



## VarDOS (Aug 25, 2010)

go for the option 1 with Biostar TA785G3 HD. Also have a look on NZXT Gamma it will suite your requirement's better. But no doubt abt CM 430 its also good. 

and BTW my name is "Varad"  I'll soon have a name change.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Varad Dilip Choudhari said:


> go for the option 1 with Biostar TA785G3 HD. Also have a look on NZXT Gamma it will suite your requirement's better. But no doubt abt CM 430 its also good.
> 
> and BTW my name is "Varad"  I'll soon have a name change.



Thanks Varad 

Could you help me out with 2 final questions? I'm about to head out of my place in another hour.

1. Will I be able to use my 2 hard drives as-is with the new hardware without having to format? Or should I format to be on the safer side?

2. I've been planning to install Vista Home Premium (32 bit) since I own the original version of it already. Would it be fine if I install this OS on the new rig as well? Or should I upgrade to Windows 7? If I DO need to upgrade, which version is fine and how much would it set me back??


----------



## Cool Buddy (Aug 25, 2010)

Transfer all your data to one drive and then format it coz that will be safer and you won't lose your data. There are high chances that the new PC will not boot with the old OS installation. but there is no problem with data. So you can format just the OS drive and keep all your data intact. Just in case you have the space, transferring the data to the secondary drive would make it safer.

Nice decision increasing the budget, that way you will get a system which will easily give good performance for some time.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Cool Buddy said:


> Transfer all your data to one drive and then format it coz that will be safer and you won't lose your data. There are high chances that the new PC will not boot with the old OS installation. but there is no problem with data. So you can format just the OS drive and keep all your data intact. Just in case you have the space, transferring the data to the secondary drive would make it safer.
> 
> Nice decision increasing the budget, that way you will get a system which will easily give good performance for some time.



Thanks CB

Am I fine with Vista Home Premium 32-bit? Or do I need Win7 32/64?

How much would the OEM versions cost, and would there be any difference in performance?


P.S. Already backed up important data on an external HD, just in case


----------



## Faun (Aug 25, 2010)

Win 7 will give tremendous boost to gaming performance. Get 64 bit.


----------



## VarDOS (Aug 25, 2010)

do as Cool Buddy said for the HDD. But for OS don't ever use Vista its pathetic Operating System and also the one which you own is 32bit which is suitable for your new RIG, get a 64bit as said by ichi


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

Upgrade done - am up and running with the new system!

I installed the 175.15 (betas) and fired up 3dMarkVantage (Trial) - are the below results normal, or is there something I could/should install further?

*Your system*
3DMark Score
P13695 3DMarks

CPU Score
38679

Graphics Score
11269

OS	Windows 7
CPU	AMD Athlon II X4 635
CPU Speed	2913 MHz
GPU	NVIDIA GeForce GTX 465
Memory	4096 MB


----------



## VarDOS (Aug 25, 2010)

^good one.

Can you please post all the temperatures and also the damages of the following parts?


----------



## funkysourav (Aug 25, 2010)

kiranb28 said:
			
		

> Upgrade done - am up and running with the new system!
> 
> I installed the 175.15 (betas) and fired up 3dMarkVantage (Trial) - are the below results normal, or is there something I could/should install further?
> 
> ...



why did you get gtx 465?

ok here's some bad news and really good news

bad news first
gtx 465 performs same as 460
costs more,
less power efficient(i.e. power guzzler)

now to the really juicy good news
GTX 465 is a cut down version of GTX 470
about 80-90% of the GTX 465 available in the market,
can actually be made a GTX 470 with a simple BIOS flash
check out overclock.net for related articles!!

that means if you are willing to flash your gpu bios,
you may actually have a GTX 470 in the garb of 465 

---------- Post added at 10:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

Guide on how to unlock GeForce GTX 465 into GTX 470 - XtremeSystems Forums
Overclock.net - Overclocking.net - View Single Post - MSI GTX465 Twin Frozr II Golden Edition Owners Club
check out these links for step by step guide on GTX 465  unlocking to GTX470


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 25, 2010)

The 465 tts was the only card smc had, despite them showing 10+ available on their website. I checked and asked around at least 9-10 other stores and nobody had the 460 available either... Oh well.

Are the scores I posted above fine for the rig I have or should I tweak some settings/ download any additional drivers for the system?








funkysourav said:


> why did you get gtx 465?
> 
> ok here's some bad news and really good news
> 
> ...


----------



## asingh (Aug 26, 2010)

funkysourav said:


> now to the really juicy good news
> GTX 465 is a cut down version of GTX 470
> about 80-90% of the GTX 465 available in the market,
> can actually be made a GTX 470 with a simple BIOS flash
> ...



Did you read the full 6 pages of that article. It is actually the other way round. Only some quality / test samples will have the 10 memory chips similar to a native GTX470. 

Also before doing this make sure you have a second GPU or onboard available, if you need to unbrick the card.


----------



## funkysourav (Aug 26, 2010)

^^^
sorry i didn't read the full article
i was in a hurry to give him a good news 
i just confirmed that the article was genuine and not far fetched and posted the links
i should have waited and went through the articles,
@op
sorry buddy
i guess you would have to wait and watch


----------



## Faun (Aug 26, 2010)

GTX 465 can as well serve you as a room heater and cooking purpose. You could have settled with much better 460.

Anyway congrats for your multipurpose package.


----------



## kiranb28 (Aug 26, 2010)

ichi said:


> GTX 465 can as well serve you as a room heater and cooking purpose. You could have settled with much better 460.
> 
> Anyway congrats for your multipurpose package.



Check a few posts back, it wasn't available..


----------



## Faun (Aug 26, 2010)

^^You could have ordered it online at much lower price.


----------

