# Bin Laden Died of Typhoid!



## freshseasons (Sep 23, 2006)

Theres the news in Leading French News Paper and all across news that Bin laden is Dead due to Typhoid.Oficially its not out but this time it seems the news is Correct!!!


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## Third Eye (Sep 23, 2006)

Maybe this news is fake.


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## rakeshishere (Sep 23, 2006)

Good if he is dead  and bad if he is alive


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## jack// ani (Sep 23, 2006)

sure its a baloney.....


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## blueshift (Sep 23, 2006)

Uncle Sam agents must be watching this forum.


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## Third Eye (Sep 23, 2006)

rakeshishere said:
			
		

> Good if he is dead  and bad if he is alive



Yeah !


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## rakeshishere (Sep 23, 2006)

Actually the news is false/fake..He died of AIDS


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## praka123 (Sep 23, 2006)

1 more:he is/was a hero for many in the WORLD.a good man who want to conquer the world with sword as many ppl wants.a good man who wants the war between religions and west. may his ghost(if he be dead) rest in Hell


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## QwertyManiac (Sep 23, 2006)

I am a news agency, I report he's in good condition. I earn 100$
You're another news agency, you report he's dead. You earn 1000$

lol.


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## king007 (Sep 23, 2006)

prakash kerala said:
			
		

> 1 more:he is/was a hero for many in the WORLD.a good man who want to conquer the world with sword as many ppl wants.a good man who wants the war between religions and west. may his ghost(if he be dead) rest in Hell



I in no way support the Terrorist acts which Laden did, It does not make me a difference whether he is dead or alive but when stupid and uneducated people like u blame the Muslims for wrong doings and evil acts of individuals then its hurting.

*FACTS AND ONLY FACTS*


The massacre beyond comparison happened and still happening in Chechnya and the innocent people including women and children are brutally killed and
raped every day.

The innocent people including women and children brutally killed everyday
in Palestine. The Israel, for half a century destroying the Palestinian
people and their houses with the help of arms and financial and moral
support provided by the USA.

The people including women and children in Iraq killed during the war and
12 years long sanctions. 500,000 children under age 5 would have alive
today if sanctions did not exist. This hijacking and hostage taking of Iraq
did by the so called civilized people.

The innocent boys and girls killed in Afghanistan during Russian and
American invasion.

The massacre beyond comparison happened in Bosnia and Kosovo and the
innocent people including women and children are brutally killed and raped.

*Anybody can forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Who did this, Muslims or
Christians? *

Who used weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the history of mankind,
Muslims or Christians?

Anybody can forget Hitler?  He was a Roman Catholic.

Anybody can forget Vietnam War and the chemical weapons used to kill poor
Vietnamese? Who did this, Muslims or Christians?

Anybody can forget Stalin who killed millions of people in Russia? He was a
Christian.

Any civilized man can forget AbuGharaib prison torture in Iraq?

Anybody can forget Oklahoma bombing? Who did this? Timothy McVeigh was a homegrown product.

Anybody can forget 2 World Wars? How many people died in these wars? Who
fought these wars?

*Any human being can justify the killing and destruction of one country,
Afghanistan, by America in order to capture one man, Osama Bin Laden? Bush
is a terrorist or humanist? What is the meaning of terrorism? *

*Any human being can justify the killing and destruction of one country, Iraq, by America in the name of WMD and which was proved later as
a big lie? Bush is a Born-Again Christian. Bush is a terrorist or humanist?*

Anybody can forget the Crusades against Muslims in the 10th century? Who
did this, Muslims or Christians?

The French killed about a million Muslims in Algeria because they wanted
independence. Who did this, Muslims or Christians?

The USA and Britain killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Who did this,
Muslims or Christians?

Serbs have killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims and raped thousands of
women in Bosnia and Kosovo.

The massacre of Sabra and Shatila in Beirut was not done by Muslims, but by
Christians of Lebanon, protected and supported by the Israelis.

The genocide of Bosnian Muslims is committed by the Serbs (Greek Orthodox),
and the Croats (Catholics). The Bosnian Muslims were denied the means to
defend thousands, while non-Muslims were given arms to kill Muslims.

The fight between the Catholics and Protestants of Northern Ireland is not
the work of Muslims.

The Ku Klux Klan is a white militant Christian fundamentalist group. They
still exist in the USA, and are not banned. They are not accused as white
militant Christian fundamentalists.

The invasion of Panama by the US Government and putting President Noriega
in jail is not considered state terrorism or a state of fundamentalism. It
was considered liberation of that country and offering the people the so
called “American democracy”. The ordinary, innocent citizens of this
country were slaughtered, imprisoned and tortured.

In Chile, US brought down the democratically elected government of
Salvadore Allende and installed the right-wing military dictator General
Augusto Pinochet. The ordinary, innocent citizens of this country were
slaughtered, imprisoned and tortured.

The invasion of a tiny island Grenada by the U.S. Government and the
shackling of its president as a slave are considered a liberation movement,
but not a state of terrorism. The ordinary, innocent citizens of this
country were slaughtered, imprisoned and tortured.

The attack of Libya by American weapons during the Reagan administration
was not considered terrorism or fundamentalism, but part of the New World
Order scheme.

The attack on the nuclear reactor in Baghdad by Israelis was considered a
heroic achievement of the government of Israel, but not terrorism and
fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism as explained by Webster Dictionary has nothing to do with
Islam or Muslims. It has to do with Christianity.

*I can list down in “tons” the atrocities committed by Western “Civilized
people” to the humanity. The media mostly associate terrorism with the Muslims but it is the Christians and Jews that hold the record when it comes to the number of children and other innocent people killed. *

Sorry for being harsh but I am a Proud Indian and a Peace Loving Muslim and I dont need to prove it to u....


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## Vyasram (Sep 23, 2006)

QwertyManiac said:
			
		

> I am a news agency, I report he's in good condition. I earn 100$
> You're another news agency, you report he's dead. You earn 1000$
> 
> lol.



absolutely. rakhi reports he died of aids and gets $10000


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## blueshift (Sep 23, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> I in no way support the Terrorist acts which Laden did, It does not make me a difference whether he is dead or alive but when stupid and uneducated people like u blame the Muslims for wrong doings and evil acts of individuals then its hurting.
> ....
> Sorry for being harsh but I am a Proud Indian and a Peace Loving Muslim and I dont need to prove it to u....



didn't read your entire post..but i don't think he is blaming anyone. you are getting the things wrong...and Believe me i am hurt too when some illiterates blames the entire religion!


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## satyamy (Sep 23, 2006)

blueshift said:
			
		

> didn't read your entire post..but i don't think he is blaming anyone. you are getting the things wrong...and Believe me i am hurt too when some illiterates blames the entire religion!


yes


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## gxsaurav (Sep 24, 2006)

u can't blame christians or muslims directly, it's the nation who does this. America, France, Italy, Germany, they are responsible for what happened in the past, but not chirstanity, actully....they don't even care, it's just bussiness, War means money growing market
__________
oh, & he can't die, the bush administration will have nothing to say in the defence of their illegally created administration...if osama is dead, so we will hear for the next few years, Osama is alive till there are new elections in USA, & even that doesn't matter. 

The oil companies of Bush have now complete control over the oil of iraq, so even if he goes out of WHite house, he is still the riches man alive, & he got control over the goverment of Iraq & Afgan


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## Stick (Sep 24, 2006)

freshseasons said:
			
		

> Theres the news in Leading French News Paper and all across news that Bin laden is Dead due to Typhoid.Oficially its not out but this time it seems the news is Correct!!!



Dear this all DRAMA is stage just becuse, US president Bush threat Pakistan Presidnet Musharraf to Catch Laden or US push Pakistan to stoneage by it Bombing.

Now of laden is no more Pak. thought US will not Bombing. But US will not satisfy till Pak give them SOLID proof that Laden is no More.


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## pra_2006 (Sep 24, 2006)

hey gusy i dont think he is dead, it may be pakistanis who r just saying it becauz US is deciding to go to pakistan to kill him


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## mediator (Sep 24, 2006)

@Imranais.....nah he (@prakash) didnt meant that! 
Neways wars and terrorism are 2 different things. U shud distinguish between them. Civilians are killed in both on both sides. Ur post contained wars in the same meaning as terrorism. 2 brothers fighting for a piece of cake is different from a brother slapping younger brother continously for cake!  


			
				Imranais said:
			
		

> The media mostly associate terrorism with the
> Muslims but it is the Christians and Jews that hold the record when it
> comes to the number of children and other innocent people killed.


I dont support pointing fingers on any specific religion. But then u are doing the same pointing finger on Jews and christian! And ever wondered why Media associates terrorism with Muslims? Think hard....and u'll find that the whole Muslim community is getting defamed because of Pakistan and terrorists like Osama and most pakistanis support the deeds of their government!

Yes and I agree Bush is the terrorist number one! but then targetting Christians and jews like u said is not sane. Do u know more than half of America and almost the whole of Britain protested when both America and Britian sent troops to Iraq?? Will u still criticise the major religion of their country?

Try to meditate on my points. No one is after any religion! I know its the fault of media too which says Muslims as terrorists! It only angers the Indian Muslims.

But I guess thats what they (Pakistanis) want and create communal tensions in India. And please dont ever think Pakistanis care for Indian Muslims! I can recite various of examples. Let me just give u the latest one. I'm sure u must have read about Malegaon incident. Who was the culprit? A Let commander!!!

See nobody here said that Mulsims are terrorists! U only misunderstood and I know why! There are ignorant elements who dont know the real issue and then keep doing what Pakistanis really want => communal tensions! Please forgive them. U dont have to be like them. If u retaliate them it will only make matters worse!  In most threads here u'll find many rowdy/ignorant elemts quoting "Muslims as terrorists". But then u'll also find greater number of people scolding them and telling them thats wrong!

So by saying & replying like "Christians and Jews are real terrorists" will only make matters worse! Try to make ur own identity. Foreigners abroad can identify u by ur nature whether u are an Indian or Non-Indian! And do u know many restaurants in places like Thailand,Malaysia,Singapore etc etc have Pakistani,Bangladeshi owned restaurants running under the INDIAN tag??

When u ask them why they do so....the only answer u'll hear is "People dont come here when we say that we are Pakistanis!" My simple point is Pakistan is a ruined state and ruins everything associated with it...be its people or its major religion i.e Muslim!


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## Apollo (Sep 24, 2006)

Good...

I hope he will now enjoy having sex with 72 virgins in _jannat_ and satiate his libido.  And leave all of us on this planet with a little bit of extra peace and breathing space!

Rock on, (Dust)bin Laden!


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## reddick (Sep 24, 2006)

No matter if he's dead or alive...He has such brave soldiers in his organisation that 'Al-Qaeda' will remain alive after his death  Al-Qaeda will remain good pain for america year after years if he dies 2day also


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## Apollo (Sep 24, 2006)

Indeed.

Al-Qaeda is not just a terrorist organisation any more; it's a movement in the Islamic world threatening to take over the world.  Osama has played his role... doesn't matter if he dies now.  The damage is long done.


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## ssdivisiongermany1933 (Sep 24, 2006)

Bin laden was only guy who was cheking American Fascism , his death will lead to the growth of evil American Fascism , which took innocent lives all over the world .

May  bin laden have heaven if died but if alive should check american Fascism


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## king007 (Sep 24, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> See nobody here said that Mulsims are terrorists! U only misunderstood and I know why! There are ignorant elements who dont know the real issue and then keep doing what Pakistanis really want => communal tensions! Please forgive them. U dont have to be like them. If u retaliate them it will only make matters worse!  In most threads here u'll find many rowdy/ignorant elemts quoting "Muslims as terrorists". But then u'll also find greater number of people scolding them and telling them thats wrong!


 Thanks that's what I like people who actually understand and say that Terrorism cannot be labeled to any religion. Thanks again for understanding and making others understand!

Bin Laden is a Terrorist and so is George Bush, there is no difference between the two, other than presentation by Media for former as Terrorist and later as Socialist...

No religion teaches bad things or killing any human being for any damn reason, but nobody should judge or comment about a entire religion just because of activities done by few individuals....

Respect for all religions is what our great Indian nation teaches us, United we stand and divided we fall...


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## Yamaraj (Sep 24, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> No religion teaches bad things or killing any human being for any damn reason, but nobody should judge or comment about a entire religion just because of activities done by few individuals....
> 
> Respect for all religions is what our great Indian nation teaches us, United we stand and divided we fall...


Then you should be ashamed of the muslim terrorists who are committing inhuman
crimes all over the World, in the name of Islam and Jihad. Are you?

Muslims, in India, need to do more than just preaching that Islam is not about
violence, terrorism and separatism. Are you ready to accept the Indian laws
and constitution as others do? Are you ready to give up Shariya and firm your
beliefs in a democratic nation? If this can happen in France, why not here?

But no. Islam has always been and will continue to be a separatist's dream and
ideal set of beliefs. You will all cry "unity", but cheer for Arabs and Pakistanis.
Muslims will always remain as tiny social islands in this vast national ocean.
There is reason why muslims are one of the the most under-developed communities
in India and abroad. And the reason is - lack of nationality and love for Islamic
states and their own laws. Until and unless you get rid of this mentality, others
will always look down on muslims and Islam.

BTW, I don't think Osama was responsible for 9/11 attacks. He didn't have the
guts or resources to carry out such an extensive and well-planned action on his own.


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## king007 (Sep 24, 2006)

Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Then you should be ashamed of the muslim terrorists who are committing inhuman
> crimes all over the World, in the name of Islam and Jihad. Are you?


Yes Every muslim is ashamed of the terrorists acts done by Al-Qaaeda or by US or other countries. People who kill have no religion, they just know to kill... 


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Muslims, in India, need to do more than just preaching that Islam is not about violence, terrorism and separatism. Are you ready to accept the Indian laws and constitution as others do?


Get ur facts right, no citizen of India is above the Indian Law and Indian Constitution.


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Are you ready to give up Shariya and firm your beliefs in a democratic nation? If this can happen in France, why not here?


No I am not ready to give up Shariya, and if u have knowledge Shariya Laws are part of the Indian Laws. Indian Constitution has provisions for Shariya Laws. 


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> But no. Islam has always been and will continue to be a separatist's dream and ideal set of beliefs. You will all cry "unity", but cheer for Arabs and Pakistanis.


Get more education thats only thing I can say. I dont need to prove how much I love my country and give a proof of my patriotism to people like you who have a closed mindset.


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Muslims will always remain as tiny social islands in this vast national ocean. There is reason why muslims are one of the the most under-developed communities in India and abroad. And the reason is - lack of nationality and love for Islamic states and their own laws. Until and unless you get rid of this mentality, others will always look down on muslims and Islam.


People like you who have no knowledge about anything look down on muslims and Islam and as I said I love my country as much as I love Islamic Laws and again I say I dont need to prove it to you. *Plz let me know which Islamic Law u know about is wrong and why u think is wrong. *


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> BTW, I don't think Osama was responsible for 9/11 attacks. He didn't have the guts or resources to carry out such an extensive and well-planned action on his own.


 Great then plz go and tell Uncle Sam and others who have destroyed countries in search of one man, who according to u does not have the guts and resources to do such a unbelievable act.


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## Yamaraj (Sep 24, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> Yes Every muslim is ashamed of the terrorists acts done by Al-Qaaeda or by US or other countries. People who kill have no religion, they just know to kill...


Correct. But there are *moderate* people who help the terrorists in many other
ways. They provide moral and economical support. Can you describe why some
muslim lads participated in suicide bombings in Britain? They were British nationals,
but their love and affection was with Arabs and Palestines. They killed their
own because of others, why?

Even if we consider all humans equal, why kill someone only in protest of killings?
Stand up and fight against those in your community who provide support to
the terrorists in any way. AFAIK, terrorists don't discreminate. They kill anyone
and everyone in their benefit.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Get ur facts right, no citizen of India is above the Indian Law and Indian Constitution.
> 
> No I am not ready to give up Shariya, and if u have knowledge Shariya Laws are part of the Indian Laws. Indian Constitution has provisions for Shariya Laws.


Wrong! Indian constituion was revised many times by the politicians to satiate
their vote banks. Why only muslims should have the priviledge? Let's make more
revisions to make Hindus, Christians, Buddhists happy too.

I'm in favor of "One law for all". This is neither a Hindu state, nor an Islamic one.
No religion should have specific laws in constitution that make life of any Indian
national any more difficult. Many muslim feminists have voiced against the Mullahs
and Imams, and the way Islam looks down on women. There are many other issues
as well, inappropriate for discussion in this forum.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Get more education thats only thing I can say. I dont need to prove how much I love my country and give a proof of my patriotism to people like you who have a closed mindset.
> 
> People like you who have no knowledge about anything look down on muslims and Islam and as I said I love my country as much as I love Islamic Laws and again I say I dont need to prove it to you. *Plz let me know which Islamic Law u know about is wrong and why u think is wrong. *


I already have enough education to boot, and to make people analyse their own.
I'm not asking for a proof of patriotism. Just don't start preaching that Islam
is not a religion of violence, when there are so many people being killed in the
name of your religion. Do you ever think about the hundreds of children killed
in Beslan school attack in Russia, thousands who were killed in Kashmir?

As for the Islamic laws, I'm against any religion having specific laws that may
or may not interfere with the laws and constituion of a nation. Islamic laws are
for an Islamic state only. Having any religious laws in the constitution, and allowing
the religious leader to govern in parallel, is very bad for any country.

That being said, I've nothing personal against any religion. But I'm of the opinion
that religions should be a personal affair, and not be in the way of the Government
in any way. In France, they banned the Sikhs and Muslims from wearing their
turbon or burkah, and everyone agreed after a few verbal clashes. That is quite
an example to follow.

In the age of Robo Sapiens, religions are, in my opinion, a little too outdated.


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## mediator (Sep 24, 2006)

Well @imranais....bro dont get me wrong! But I too feel there shud be no laws for one specific religion! Thats partiality then. There shudnt be any laws for any religion! I'm not a religious person though I'm a Hindu.That means I'm not religously devoted. I dont practise any prayers(except just before exams) and fasts. But for the sake of masses who are emotionally attached to religion I support a few things like celebrating holidays like Diwali,Holi,Id etc which bring happiness and one day off !

As for rules and laws in a religion, I think its a torture to have such a religion which has rules. In mah opinion life shud be lived freely,ethically,non-violently in a civilised society. If u let some religious rules govern ur life then I dont think ur living life freely and happily. Many people say religion is a set of rules and laws! But tell me any rules in Hinduism that is there to follow. I dont know any rules nor I follow any religious rule if there's any.

Prayer,Namaz etc are nothing but a form of meditation and associated with spirituality. But if u say u shud do prayers all the time then what are u doing in life? Are u moving forward? Are u helping others? Are u earning maximum money to keep ur family happy?

I dunno about Sharia, but I know about the concept of "Talak Talak Talak"! Why is there a separate rule for divorce in Muslim community? I appreciate that u understood mah previous post and boast about ur patriotism and are proud to be an Indian. But then why is that Muslims dont follow national rule on divorce, but follow a rule that is modified and made by a few Islamic clerics? Who gave such rights to these clerics to modify Islam and govern ur life? Isnt Islam urs? Will they tell u what do now? Dont ISlamic women have the life to live freely like other women? If u think its for protecting the girls in the family so that no one eyes them then every other girl of all other religions are protected and educated in some manner. But they are not denied of their life. Remember its the woman who holds the key to family happiness! If u give the household power to her then ur happy for the rest of ur life!

And one more thing I dont like in any religion is violent activities like slaughtering of animals like goats and that too in numbers just for the sake of religion! I consider killing an animal just like that equivalent to murdering people and doing terrorism! Religious holdays shu be celebrated without causing any pain to people or animals! 
Similarly I criticise people who celebrate too much diwali! 2-5 crackers is OK. But then polluting the atmosphere so that people dont even get to breath is not OK.


Neways just like u read my earlier post line by line and understood it. I want u to read the same this and meditate again on what I said!
I supported u previously because u had a point. U liked my post because I supported u and u thought I was sensible enough. But dont get me wrong this time. I support ur views now also but not the "laws" thing.
Debates like this are meant to tell ur thoughts about the topic. Other debaters shud understand what the person is trying to say before speaking his own thoughts!
Suppose if some hindus or christians criticise islam, then its understood that u'll get angry. But rather u shud think why are they criticing? Similarly if some Muslims crtitices other hindus. The matter shud be thought of in the same way!

Try to think about what I said. I appreciate u didnt made personal comments and burst off because of misunderstanding but rather tried to defend ur community! Similarly by removing such partiality like laws, muslims like u can prosper ur religion!

I expect muslims like u to give a fitting answer to people like Osama and countries like Pakistan and tell them that their attempts wont succeed and wont bring any communal violence!


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## Stick (Sep 25, 2006)

Friends,

Do you know Who Support Iran, Iraq, Laden and now Pakistan, it's US presidents and there policy. First of all thy USE them (Support Terrorist) and when all is done they THROGUH them, and no one like KICK on ASS.

Thats why After Afghanistan, US turn to Iraq than (may be soon) Iran and aftr Iran, PAKISTAN.


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## king007 (Sep 25, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Well @imranais....bro dont get me wrong! But I too feel there shud be no laws for one specific religion! Thats partiality then. There shudnt be any laws for any religion! I'm not a religious person though I'm a Hindu.That means I'm not religously devoted. I dont practise any prayers(except just before exams) and fasts. But for the sake of masses who are emotionally attached to religion I support a few things like celebrating holidays like Diwali,Holi,Id etc which bring happiness and one day off !


No bro you talk sense so I am not getting u wrong! All laws are applicable for all citizens of India. No criminal of India is treated as per his/her religion. No one is above the Law in India. Having said that there are a few exceptions for everyone. This is because there are some laws such as Inheritance rights, marriage, divorce etc are different in Muslim laws based on teachings of Qur'an and teachings of the prophet. With regards to partiality, one cannot tell a Sikh to wear a Helmet bec its compulsory by law, there are exeptions. There is no theory which can legitimately argue that people are going to be more integrated simply because they are governed by a uniform civil code. For example, even though Hindus and Sikhs have the same personal laws, the anti-Sikhs riots took place in 1984. What happened to national integration in this case? Similarly, no one can say with certainty that Hindus and Muslims will stop reaching for each other’s necks if there is a Uniform Civil Code UCC in place. So why argue about this point as these would also put extra burden on already full of burden courts. Cases such as Inheritance, divorce etc which are given on judgement in days by Shariat courts, if goto courts will take years... 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> As for rules and laws in a religion, I think its a torture to have such a religion which has rules. In mah opinion life shud be lived freely,ethically,non-violently in a civilised society. If u let some religious rules govern ur life then I dont think ur living life freely and happily. Many people say religion is a set of rules and laws! But tell me any rules in Hinduism that is there to follow. I dont know any rules nor I follow any religious rule if there's any.


 Rules of religion are bound to be followed. I am not preaching religion here but in Islam, Drinking is prohibited, there is a reason for it isn't it? No true muslim will ever go and drink, if he does he is no more a muslim. In Islam, No man can have illegal sex before marriage or sex with other women after marriage. The Islamic Law states that if a man is found guilty of such a crime he should be stoned to death. Imagine if this law is implemented in any country, will any person commit heinous crime of Rape, he would fear his life and the torture of getting stoned to death in public. There are many laws which are logical and for betterment of life, if I start listing it would probably take pages. 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Prayer,Namaz etc are nothing but a form of meditation and associated with spirituality. But if u say u shud do prayers all the time then what are u doing in life? Are u moving forward? Are u helping others? Are u earning maximum money to keep ur family happy?


Yes Bro I agree with u that prayer's are form of meditation. In fact Namaz means submitting ur will to the almighty God. God never asked to pray all the time. But one should thank and praise God for everything he has given to us. A Person has other duties also to perform towards his parents, family, friends etc. Treat everyone with respect and spread peace and also working and earning money is important, but the right means of earning is also governed by religious laws. Money should be earned by looting someone or cheating someone but in a manner which is accpetable to all. And Islam specifically states a lot in the Qur'an about Education. Muslims who do not educate their children (boy/girl) are nothing but ignorant towards Islam.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I dunno about Sharia, but I know about the concept of "Talak Talak Talak"! Why is there a separate rule for divorce in Muslim community? I appreciate that u understood mah previous post and boast about ur patriotism and are proud to be an Indian. But then why is that Muslims dont follow national rule on divorce, but follow a rule that is modified and made by a few Islamic clerics? Who gave such rights to these clerics to modify Islam and govern ur life? Isnt Islam urs? Will they tell u what do now?


 Triple Talaq has been argued many times. Believe me there are lot of conditions involved with giving Triple Talaq. A person cannot say 3 times Talaq and he is divorced (as commonly understood by all), but there are lots and lots of conditions to it. I am not boasting about my Patriotism, I dont need to but you rightly said I am a proud Indian and like I said earlier there are exceptions. I dont listen or let anyone rule by life like you said, if it matches with the Qur'an and teachings of Prophet it is to be followed or it is simply to be Rejected no matter which cleric has said or modified it.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Dont ISlamic women have the life to live freely like other women? If u think its for protecting the girls in the family so that no one eyes them then every other girl of all other religions are protected and educated in some manner. But they are not denied of their life. Remember its the woman who holds the key to family happiness! If u give the household power to her then ur happy for the rest of ur life!


Islam gives equal rights to women as compared to men. Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’. 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And one more thing I dont like in any religion is violent activities like slaughtering of animals like goats and that too in numbers just for the sake of religion! I consider killing an animal just like that equivalent to murdering people and doing terrorism! Religious holdays shu be celebrated without causing any pain to people or animals!
> Similarly I criticise people who celebrate too much diwali! 2-5 crackers is OK. But then polluting the atmosphere so that people dont even get to breath is not OK.


 It seems u are a vegetarian...
*Humans have Omnivorous set of teeth*
If you observe the teeth of herbivorous animals like the cow, goat and sheep, you will find something strikingly similar in all of them. All these animals have a set of flat teeth i.e. suited for herbivorous diet. If you observe the set of teeth of the carnivorous animals like the lion, tiger, or leopard, they all have a set of pointed teeth i.e. suited for a carnivorous diet. If you analyze the set of teeth of humans, you find that they have flat teeth as well as pointed teeth. Thus they have teeth suited for both herbivorous as well as carnivorous food i.e. they are omnivorous. One may ask, if Almighty God wanted humans to have only vegetables, why did He provide us also with pointed teeth? It is logical that He expected us to need and to have both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food.
*Human beings can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food*
The digestive system of herbivorous animals can digest only vegetables. The digestive system of carnivorous animals can digest only meat. But the digestive system of humans can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. If Almighty God wanted us to have only vegetables then why did He give us a digestive system that can digest both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food?
* Even plants have life*
Certain religions have adopted pure vegetarianism as a dietary law because they are totally against the killing of living creatures. If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life. In the past people thought plants were lifeless. Today it is a universal fact that even plants have life. Today science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. Thus their logic of not killing living creatures is not fulfilled even by being a pure vegetarian.
If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. Allah (swt) in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle. *It is mentioned in Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus, in chapter 5 verse 30
"The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad, even if he does it day after day, for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater."*


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways just like u read my earlier post line by line and understood it. I want u to read the same this and meditate again on what I said!


 I read ur post line by line, and expect you read my post in the same way....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I supported u previously because u had a point. U liked my post because I supported u and u thought I was sensible enough. But dont get me wrong this time. I support ur views now also but not the "laws" thing.
> Debates like this are meant to tell ur thoughts about the topic. Other debaters shud understand what the person is trying to say before speaking his own thoughts!


 I didnt like your post because you supported me but because you gave a reading to it and replied with lot of sense. I respect people who have open mind and are open to discussions and debate and so I respect u a lot bro!


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Suppose if some hindus or christians criticise islam, then its understood that u'll get angry. But rather u shud think why are they criticing? Similarly if some Muslims crtitices other hindus. The matter shud be thought of in the same way!


 I totally agree with u on this! 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Try to think about what I said. I appreciate u didnt made personal comments and burst off because of misunderstanding but rather tried to defend ur community!


 Thanks for understanding that I was only defending and not preaching or offending someone.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I expect muslims like u to give a fitting answer to people like Osama and countries like Pakistan and tell them that their attempts wont succeed and wont bring any communal violence!


 Yes I and all Indian Muslims (there may be a few uneducated exceptions as there are black sheeps in every religion) stand against a Terrorist country like Pakistan and also against all violence happening anywhere in the world for any damn reason.

*Thanks for reading patiently, would like to hear more comments and clarifications from u soon, Thanks!  *


----------



## praka123 (Sep 25, 2006)

fight terrorism out of India and world without taking out religious sentiments.thats what every country needed to do even Islamic Countries also.anyways after the US attack on Afganisthan,and warnings for militant bases at pakistan from US,somehow made the terrorist establishment lesser as u can see Kashmir is getting Better after these foreign terrorist/infiltrators are less in number.


Basically i think the believers in Ganga-Jamuna delta are much better than their counterparts in saud and middle east as a whole.they are having better skills on all arts and are more liberal earlier.
*www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15Dec04-Print-Edition/011512200426.htm

anyways i believe Hindus,Buddhist,Jainism and Roman Catholic/Orthodox Christianity are very very tolerant religions.they allows other religions and foreign peoples in their land and gave them the privilages of the country to these foreigners also.
*www.qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-297/i.html


----------



## Yamaraj (Sep 25, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> Rules of religion are bound to be followed. I am not preaching religion here but in Islam, Drinking is prohibited, there is a reason for it isn't it? No true muslim will ever go and drink, if he does he is no more a muslim. In Islam, No man can have illegal sex before marriage or sex with other women after marriage. The Islamic Law states that if a man is found guilty of such a crime he should be stoned to death.


Then how many real muslims are there in the World? Religious rules are pathetic
ideological ramblings of a perfectionist schizophreniac, most of the times. And
I'm not talking about any specific religion. Manu Smruti is equally laughable, as
are Old/New Testaments. Any normal and sane person wouldn't even follow
half the rules imposed by any religion whatsoever.

Remember, Islam, or any other religion, doesn't predate the evolution of mankind.
Religions exist to serve one purpose only - to differentiate and discriminate.
For what other reason one would place his sword at the neck of another and
ask him to accept his ideology or die? Obviously hatred!

No other religion ever had provision to make others pay taxes, if they didn't
already convert, or die as 'infidels'. Violence and hatred are integral to Islam.
The whole of Islamic history is full of violence and hatred towards others. The
same cannot be said about Hinduism (even if I don't consider it a religion) and
Buddhism or Jainism.

You cannot boast of peace in the name of Islam, for peace and Islam don't
quite fit together. It's an oxymoron. Why don't you spend some time explaining
this verse to me, in terms of peace?

From Qur'an:
"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike
off the very tips of their fingers!"

Any"thing" that preaches violence to its followers is not worthy of the title
"God", not does it even qualify for a sane person. It's pure terrorism.

I invite you and others to read the following articles and form your own
'independent' opinion, one not directed by the mass media or "prophets".

1. Where is the Gandhi of Islam? - *www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/07/09/do09.xml&page=1
2. Muhammad was a terrorist - *answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm
3. Islamic extremist terrorism - *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremist_terrorism

There is no place for senseless religious violence in today's World. If you can't
get rid of your Dark Ages' beliefs, at least learn to live in a civilized democratic
society.


----------



## JGuru (Sep 25, 2006)

America did & continues to dominate & dictate terms to the entire World. What America
 did in the Middle East is not correct. They meddled with the internal affairs of other
 nations, bombed Japan, killed millions in the Muslim countries. And now Bin Laden
 thought Enough is enough, let's fight America at their own terms!!.
 And that's when they (Al Qaeda) planned & executed 9/11 attacks in America.
 Al Qaeda gave the Americans the taste of their own medicine!!!
*This war between the Muslim world & the Christian world will continue for long*.
 Even if Bin Laden is dead, Al Qaeda has become a very stronger force to reckon
 with & will continue to give more nightmares to America.


----------



## mediator (Sep 25, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> No bro you talk sense so I am not getting u wrong! All laws are applicable for all citizens of India. No criminal of India is treated as per his/her religion. No one is above the Law in India. Having said that there are a few exceptions for everyone. This is because there are some laws such as Inheritance rights, marriage, divorce etc are different in Muslim laws based on teachings of Qur'an and teachings of the prophet. With regards to partiality, one cannot tell a Sikh to wear a Helmet bec its compulsory by law, there are exeptions. There is no theory which can legitimately argue that people are going to be more integrated simply because they are governed by a uniform civil code. For example, even though Hindus and Sikhs have the same personal laws, the anti-Sikhs riots took place in 1984. What happened to national integration in this case? Similarly, no one can say with certainty that Hindus and Muslims will stop reaching for each other’s necks if there is a Uniform Civil Code UCC in place. So why argue about this point as these would also put extra burden on already full of burden courts. Cases such as Inheritance, divorce etc which are given on judgement in days by Shariat courts, if goto courts will take years...


Why do u want Sikh to wear helments bro...when they already have natural, much efficient helmets? Helmets are for ur security though I believe its the opposite.....but the laws shud be equal for everyone! Suppose there's a killer. Then what do u expect, the laws shud be different for him if he's from a different religion? As for burden on court thats their problem. If cases are to be solved like this then no wonder every religion will demand its own laws on Inheritance,divorce etc! This will certainly lead to isolation and difference between the communities. And what can happen next? => Disintegration of country based on religions! A jain country with its own laws, islamic country and hindu country with their own laws.
Next, the muslim tourists will migrate to jain country and hindu country and hindu will migrate other religion country. Then after few years further disintegration! I hope u got my point!
You may give some more examples other than the Sikh, but they have got a better helmet! So dont say they dont wear helmet! Neways just like Sikhs gave up their main thing like turbans etc in France cant Muslims do the same in democratic Society? I'm not saying to give up everything. SIkhs gave up everything in France, I have mah sympathy with them. But atleast the laws and to maintain the spirit of Democracy! Because of these laws and differences India was partitioned to India and Pakistan. Do u want a partition again? So why shud u have separate laws?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Rules of religion are bound to be followed. I am not preaching religion here but in Islam, Drinking is prohibited, there is a reason for it isn't it? No true muslim will ever go and drink, if he does he is no more a muslim. In Islam, No man can have illegal sex before marriage or sex with other women after marriage. The Islamic Law states that if a man is found guilty of such a crime he should be stoned to death. Imagine if this law is implemented in any country, will any person commit heinous crime of Rape, he would fear his life and the torture of getting stoned to death in public. There are many laws which are logical and for betterment of life, if I start listing it would probably take pages.


Drinking,Sex before Marriage etc do not come under any specific religion! These are not laws! In any Indian family non-drinking,virgin before marriage are called family values,ethics,culturedness etc. For western society its different. They dont have any culture! SO dont compare India to western society. Western society is a big joke itself!
Do u think just because of these rules,islamic rules as u say ...muslim girls and boys dont drink? Do u think they dont have sex before marriages? These scandals come on net everyday. And not to metnion Pakistani sex scandals are rising faster than Indian sex scandals! Its easy to say such stuff! But every where even in hardcore Islamic societies like Iran drinking happens if not openly then privately, sex before marriage does happen! Its upto the family background and family values that are embedded in girls and boys that forbids them not to drink in parties! Every mother tells her child not to drink etc! So non-drinking etc is not something preached by Almighty alone, it is preached by every mother irrelevant of the fact whether she is religios or non-religious and was preached even before religion started! 

If anybody starts preaching these things at mass level to ignorant,non-religious uneducate people and tribal areas then I'm sure he can start a different religion all by himslef! 

I still say these are not religious rules but a part of culture,tradition u can say,ethics etc! I wud like u to mention somemore points if u have to convince me that religion is indeed a set of rules that need to be practised to improve ur life without degrading the life of others!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Islam gives equal rights to women as compared to men. Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.


Again ur comparing it with stupid western society. I can give tons of examples. In western society if u are stayig with ur parents together then ur considered extremely blessed. This is their situation. So dont bring western society here! If women are treated equally then why are do they made burqa? Arent they allowed to absorb Sunlight equally as muslim men do? Another example is Sania Mirza. Why are muslims so concerned about her dress? Shudnt they just watch her sports instead of her dress? Do muslims want a separate rule for that too?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> It seems u are a vegetarian...
> Humans have Omnivorous set of teeth
> If you observe the teeth of herbivorous animals like the cow, goat and sheep, you will find something strikingly similar in all of them. All these animals have a set of flat teeth i.e. suited for herbivorous diet. If you observe the set of teeth of the carnivorous animals like the lion, tiger, or leopard, they all have a set of pointed teeth i.e. suited for a carnivorous diet. If you analyze the set of teeth of humans, you find that they have flat teeth as well as pointed teeth. Thus they have teeth suited for both herbivorous as well as carnivorous food i.e. they are omnivorous. One may ask, if Almighty God wanted humans to have only vegetables, why did He provide us also with pointed teeth? It is logical that He expected us to need and to have both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food.
> Human beings can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food
> ...


Oh man u took it to the root level! Wow. Neways yes u deduced correctly. I'm A VEGETARIAN ! Neways just like u said 


```
I dont listen or let anyone rule by life like you said, if it matches with the Qur'an and teachings of Prophet it is to be followed or it is simply to be Rejected no matter which cleric has said or modified it.
```

Similarly I dont follow anyone not even religious books! Though I have read all the Hindu epics and GITA, but I only learn from them if they have anything new to say and increases my wisdom! Believe me I dont follow any book blindly! I dont wanna talk about the teaching of some other religion other than mine. I just like to observe my religion and deduce whats right and whats wrong. IF u ask I can tell about othe religions too. But it wud be better if u urself deduce whats right and whats wrong in ur religion.
Just because Islam is ur religion and ur forefather have told u not to question the authourity of religious leaders and all, doesnt means u shud stop doing so. U shud question everything, even the rights and wrongs of ur religion and remeber is the power of question from where everyone has achieved wisdom and real spiritual knowledge!


Neways for this post I just wanna say Almighty has given us power to think constructively and destructively like u said about teeth their use! So shud we start thinking destructively too? He gave us power to save people and to kill them. Shud we start killing too?
So forget about what ur religion has said. At the end its upto u to use ur brain and decide whether its right and wrong!

Neways yes plant have life like animals. But they arent classified to Plants and animals for no reason! The categories: herbivore,carnivore : right and wrong arent classified for no reason! 
I agree about the concept of eater and being eaten! BUt again if u eat, then only u kill an animal. If someone attacks ur brutally then only u kill him in return.
U shudnt kill any animal,goats etc just like that for the sake of religion and to please almighty. I similarly criticise the Tantriks who still live in dark ages and sacrifice even human being to please Almighty. Whats the difference between them and u then? We are supposed to be living in modern era. Why shud we practise what was done in dark ages that is higly irrational an unscientific? Do u think slaughtering animals like goats can bring happiness? Think again its opposite actually. 

What u perform, what u do is how accordingly ur outlook towards life develops and becomes! Its not what I say, Its what all mothers and religious gods say and I agree with them!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I didnt like your post because you supported me but because you gave a reading to it and replied with lot of sense. I respect people who have open mind and are open to discussions and debate and so I respect u a lot bro!


Thanx for understanding bro!

Lets continue this interesting debate. And thanx for reading mah posts and quoting everyline line by line! Not many ppl are here who that.

Cheers!


----------



## ruthless (Sep 25, 2006)

America has created the terrorist like Bin Laden. Now they are trying to kill him because they are afraid of what he would say if he is caught alive. If he speaks ,they will be in trouble.

I read somewhere that The Holy Bible and Quran contains same message and the events in both of the holy books are similer.(PLZ correct me if i m wrong.)

@yamraj U must not forget that only a minority of muslims become anti-social.I know many muslims who are very patriotic .
Why should we go further , our own president Dr. A.P.J Abdul Kalam is a muslim and no one can deny his contribution to our nation.



@imranais- I thought vegetarian was the healthiest way of living. You must understand that plants have the ability to replaca their lost parts. If they feel the pain how will the seeds be dispersed for continuation  of their species.


----------



## Yamaraj (Sep 25, 2006)

ruthless said:
			
		

> @yamraj U must not forget that only a minority of muslims become anti-social.I know many muslims who are very patriotic .
> Why should we go further , our own president Dr. A.P.J Abdul Kalam is a muslim and no one can deny his contribution to our nation.


Exactly! I do have respect for APJ, but that is because he is not a religious
fanatic. Like I've said a million times before, I've nothing personal against muslims.
I dislike religious fundamentalists, irrespective of their religion. I dislike those
who kill people and take lives of innocent animals and still try to argue or
justify it.


----------



## king007 (Sep 25, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Why do u want Sikh to wear helments bro...when they already have natural, much efficient helmets? Helmets are for ur security though I believe its the opposite.....but the laws shud be equal for everyone! Suppose there's a killer. Then what do u expect, the laws shud be different for him if he's from a different religion?


 Thats what I said all Indians are bound by same laws. A Muslim Killer gets the same punishment as a Hindu killer or any other killer. There is no differentiation at all. Except a few exceptions as I said which exists for different religions.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> As for burden on court thats their problem. If cases are to be solved like this then no wonder every religion will demand its own laws on Inheritance,divorce etc! This will certainly lead to isolation and difference between the communities. And what can happen next? => Disintegration of country based on religions! A jain country with its own laws, islamic country and hindu country with their own laws.


Has the disintegration happened in 58 years of India's independence? These exceptions in laws are part of Indian constition. And like I said in previous posts having UCC does not mean unity..


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Because of these laws and differences India was partitioned to India and Pakistan. Do u want a partition again? So why shud u have separate laws?


Partition of India was the biggest mistake. If these two countries were one, we would have been a superpower by now. The amount of money these two countries spend to safeguard thier borders is just unimaginable...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Drinking,Sex before Marriage etc do not come under any specific religion! These are not laws! In any Indian family non-drinking,virgin before marriage are called family values,ethics,culturedness etc. For western society its different. They dont have any culture! SO dont compare India to western society. Western society is a big joke itself!


I agree Western Society is just degrading Human value and advertising it as  Liberalisation of Socialism.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Do u think just because of these rules,islamic rules as u say ...muslim girls and boys dont drink? Do u think they dont have sex before marriages? These scandals come on net everyday. And not to metnion Pakistani sex scandals are rising faster than Indian sex scandals! Its easy to say such stuff! But every where even in hardcore Islamic societies like Iran drinking happens if not openly then privately, sex before marriage does happen! Its upto the family background and family values that are embedded in girls and boys that forbids them not to drink in parties! Every mother tells her child not to drink etc! So non-drinking etc is not something preached by Almighty alone, it is preached by every mother irrelevant of the fact whether she is religios or non-religious and was preached even before religion started!


 I completely agree with u, but in Muslims drinking is a big taboo and as I said there are black sheeps in every religion, so muslims who drink or do other forbidden activities are not muslims at all or muslims only by name.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If women are treated equally then why are do they made burqa? Arent they allowed to absorb Sunlight equally as muslim men do?


 An Example: Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested. And Burkha is to safeguard women and her modesty and in no way meant to degrade her. Women who do understand Islam will wear a Burkha even if her husband/parents stop her. Burkha is not a forced garment but a recommended garment.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Another example is Sania Mirza. Why are muslims so concerned about her dress? Shudnt they just watch her sports instead of her dress? Do muslims want a separate rule for that too?


 There are only a few people who give comments about her, and these are the people who want to get fame by giving such comments or mediating in affairs where they are not even invited or required.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Oh man u took it to the root level! Wow. Neways yes u deduced correctly. I'm A VEGETARIAN !


So u kill plants to eat them. Now u may say plants have less senses than animals so killing plants is ok compared to killing animals...
Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.
* If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life. * And the ecological balance created by God is in such a way that the animals which he has allowed to eat will never become extinct no matter how many u consume of them.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Just because Islam is ur religion and ur forefather have told u not to question the authourity of religious leaders and all, doesnt means u shud stop doing so. U shud question everything, even the rights and wrongs of ur religion and remeber is the power of question from where everyone has achieved wisdom and real spiritual knowledge!


I do question about things and do not believe in blind faith. I even reasearch to find an answer. Also I believe in Islam not because I am born muslim but because it coincides with Logic and Science. With no offence to any other religion I can never believe that a Idol made by a human being to be God, God is something unimaginable we cannot create a idol, a picture or anything of him. And in Islam I have to only believe that there is only 1 God who has power to all.
*The basic difference between Islam and Hinduism which I believe is of apostrophe S ('s). Hindus say Fire is God, sun is God, Moon is God etc etc and Muslims say everything is of God's.*


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways for this post I just wanna say Almighty has given us power to think constructively and destructively like u said about teeth their use! So shud we start thinking destructively too? He gave us power to save people and to kill them. Shud we start killing too?
> So forget about what ur religion has said. At the end its upto u to use ur brain and decide whether its right and wrong!


 I completely agree with u bro. Nuclear Power can be used for constructive purposes also but we human made it destructive and created Nuclear bombs. We have to think about right and wrong.... I agree with u....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U shudnt kill any animal,goats etc just like that for the sake of religion and to please almighty. I similarly criticise the Tantriks who still live in dark ages and sacrifice even human being to please Almighty. Whats the difference between them and u then?


 The difference is that Tantriks believe that God requires meat and Blood to accept their prayers and Qur’ân clearly states that unlike some other religions who believe that Almighty God requires meat and blood, in Islam when we sacrifice an animal neither the blood nor the meat reaches God but it is our piety, intentions, and righteousness while sacrificing that is taken into consideration. 
That is the reason when a sacrifice of an animal is made during Eedul-Duha (Bakri-Eed) 1/3rd portion of the animal has to be given in charity to the poor people1/3rd has to be distributed amongst relatives and friends. A maximum of 1/3rd portion may be kept for the personal household consumption.  
No portion of the animal's flesh or blood is kept separately for Almighty God, because he does not require it. Thus We dont slaughter a Goat and offer Meat and Blood to God to please him.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> We are supposed to be living in modern era. Why shud we practise what was done in dark ages that is higly irrational an unscientific? Do u think slaughtering animals like goats can bring happiness? Think again its opposite actually.


 Exactly it does not bring happiness but what is lawful to be eaten can be eaten and should be eaten....
If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. God in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Thanx for understanding bro!
> Lets continue this interesting debate. And thanx for reading mah posts and quoting everyline line by line! Not many ppl are here who that.
> Cheers!


Thanks for reading my replies line by line too...  Plz let me know if I unintensionally hurt any of ur feelings, If I did then I sincerely apologize.


----------



## hdsk.23 (Sep 25, 2006)

*I have few Words on Terrorism*

"ALL *MUSLIMS* ARE NOT *TERRORIST*,
*BUT ALL TERRORIST ARE MUSLIMS*"


----------



## king007 (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: I have few Words on Terrorism*



			
				hdsk.23 said:
			
		

> "ALL *MUSLIMS* ARE NOT *TERRORIST*,
> *BUT ALL TERRORIST ARE MUSLIMS*"



Who said bro? The Biggest Terrorist "Mr. Bush" is not a muslim!

Also read post #11(*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=312434&postcount=11) of this thread where I have posted *"Facts and Only Facts" *.

Do read it before making such statements!


----------



## praka123 (Sep 25, 2006)

the main thing is Hindus started understanding more about the destruction made by foreigners to this very ancient civilization fetching from Iran to Indonesia(Aarsha Bharath) mostly due to those parties like RSS,VHP etc going to remote areas and making ppl understand the amount of destruction made by these ppl.this makes an average hindu (hindus are most of them i believe are very moderate and coordial to others) getting anger on the past deeds of these foreigners;I mean Islam missionaries and warlords who came to conquer india.but even if hindus are calm and forgives these troubles,Moslems who  are educated from madarssas remember them of the dark ages.i am not a Hindu.but believe me,Hindustan is a wonder which survived umpteen intrusion by Islamists and Others for the past 1000 years losing millions of precious lives.mind it any moslems for that matter be able to understand the following link:
*www.howardbloom.net/militant_islam_timeline.htm
below will show some....light on "World Religion"origin:
*www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/554692/posts


----------



## deepak.krishnan (Sep 25, 2006)

Well this news is going to be purely fake!!! It is being reported that Laden has a team of leading doctors with him all the time and he wont die of a mere typhoid!


----------



## mediator (Sep 25, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> Thats what I said all Indians are bound by same laws. A Muslim Killer gets the same punishment as a Hindu killer or any other killer. There is no differentiation at all. Except a few exceptions as I said which exists for different religions.


Bro, These are the few exceptions I'm talking about because of which there is divide between Islam and other religions. These are the few exceptions because of which most people think Muslims are terrorist minded, want to have separate country all the time, cant exist peacefully with other religions and cant coexist with National laws!
India was divided as I said because of these laws only. India at that time had much great percentage of Muslim population who wanted separate State. Who knows if population of Indian Muslims rises, there can be another partition.
And these are not exceptions, these are sparking points of communal tensions.

Everybody wants population of India to decrease so as to reduce all population related problems like unemployment,poverty etc. For this family planning was thought of. Why did the muslims oppose this? Arent they interested in contributing,solving national problems?
Most muslim families have not less than 3 kids. These families arent able to feed their kids. And then go poor. Then they say govenrment is not doing enough for them. Who is responsible? Them or the governemnt? If they follow laws equally dont u think it will be good for everyone? No more communal tensions I mean and no more population explosions.

Also to maintain equality dont u think subjects such as "Muslim Quota", "Muslim Reservation", "Muslim Vote" shud be abolished??  

Dont u think the gap and partiality is rising enough?? Dont u think Muslims are being selfish to have everything for their comfort i.e first the exceptional LAWS as u said , second RESERVATION FOR MUSLIMS , third asking their community members to elect a governement of their common choice so that it will do more good for MUSLIMS ALONE i.e MUSLIMS VOTE ?? And at the end most of them still say they are suffering in India to gain some more priviledges and gain sympathy!! Dont u think its tooo much??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Has the disintegration happened in 58 years of India's independence? These exceptions in laws are part of Indian constition. And like I said in previous posts having UCC does not mean unity..


I dont agree with this!
Will u keep saying this until disintegration has actually happened? Its similar to thing that is lost. most people dont realise the importance of thing until its lost. And then try to get it back when its lost.
Isnt the history witness that we were actually partitioned? How u know it wont happen again?
5-10 years after partition everyone was sad. No communal tensions were there. 10-20 years the differences again started to rise. Now we see communal tensions every year! How can u be sure partition wont happen? Cant u learn from the past and be convinced until the partition has actually taken place? Its a different matter tha most of us dont want a partition, but how many broadminded/educated people are there in the country? or as @yamaraj said how many REAL muslims are there in the country?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I completely agree with u, but in Muslims drinking is a big taboo and as I said there are black sheeps in every religion, so muslims who drink or do other forbidden activities are not muslims at all or muslims only by name.


How can u say they are not Muslims? They must be practising Islam more than u do! Every mother says not to drink or smoke. But if a child does so, is he no longer her kid?
Most Muslims say interacting with other religion members is alo UnIslamic! So for them u must be UnIslamic then! As I said these are no laws but ethics. If think in broader terms, they are only loosing their ethics by drinking and defaming their families!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> An Example: Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested. And Burkha is to safeguard women and her modesty and in no way meant to degrade her. Women who do understand Islam will wear a Burkha even if her husband/parents stop her. Burkha is not a forced garment but a recommended garment.





			
				imranais said:
			
		

> There are only a few people who give comments about her, and these are the people who want to get fame by giving such comments or mediating in affairs where they are not even invited or required.


Nops, I disagree here again! If a sex hungry freak really wants to tease then he wont look for such things! Now let me rephrase ur example!
Suppose the burqa girl is walking in a lonely street full of sex hungry freaks. What will u think? SHe'll get out of there without any misery? Even a 3 month old child girl,a girl in saree or salwar kameez is raped these days so why will they care about Burqa?

And why arent there any dances and other happy thing in Muslim festivals except for feast? Dances,Living openly in the SUN during winters etc are some of things Women enjoy the most. Why is it most Muslim girls are so desparate to learn Bharat Natiyam? I'm not saying this, but I was surprised to see it on news channels some months ago. If u think I'm making stories then let me tell u I dont like to talk absurd and dont expect the same from opponent! Nobody must be reading and watching news like I do!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> So u kill plants to eat them. Now u may say plants have less senses than animals so killing plants is ok compared to killing animals...


Neways u been talking and emphasising a lot on plants. I told u plants and animals are different categories and arent classified for no reasons!

So now let me tell u ......A living form is said to feel pain and suffering if it has a NERVOUS SYSTEM. Birds,animals,humans all have nervous systems. They can sense pain. On the other hand, Plants dont have NERVOUS SYSTEM. And yes they dont feel pain. This was not mine but a scientific definition. 

( and this definition of plants having "no senses" is used in serials and cartoons to like "Flames of Recca". Watch it to get enlightened => Episode Number: 26, Animax, 8 pm,12 am or 10am  )

If they wud have felt pain then 
1. cud u explain me the concept of autumn, why leaves themselves shrink and then reappear during springs.
2. Cud u explain me why dont the plant die even when break a branch of it?
3. Even if we take out from roots, it doesnt shred for 1-2 days??

List is endless! I can fill the whole page on this! So dont say plants have senses! As I said classifications like herbivore and carnivore, plants and animals,  arent made for no reason and I told u to think about this ! Neways I told u now....I hope u wont feel pity for plants anymore. But yea every thing has its own importance. Plants provode us O2. So next time before cutting a tree think again  !

Some scientists say plants have life, others say plants dont have life. Some say it has life because it grows! Others say then NAILS,HAIR must be having life tooo as they can grow too after the person dies!
Neways vegetarian food also has POTATOES, CEREALS,BEANS and plenty of other things that dont have life at all !

I hope u got my point and i hope u wont argue to me or anybody now that plants are KILLED or HAVE SENSES after forwarding such a brief, to the point scientific lesson to u!

AND u shudnt talk about anything like plants on which ur ignorant! See I didnt talk about Sharia at all! Neways WHo told u plants have senses?? Muslim leaders/clerics??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life.


Now why did u say CREATURE urself???? Plants dont come under the category of CREATURE!! I hope u got my point. I told u to understand the difference between plants and animals and understand about their classifications. But u didnt!! This really lowers the spirit of a good,peaceful discussion.

I see u only brought "Plants" in the discussion to defend the slaughtering of goats though u were ignorant about plants!! 

*Yes a person can live without killing any living CREATURE by simply being a VEGETARIAN and eating beans,cereals,milk,potato*........shud I make a list for u ????!!!!

*SO ARE U READY TO ADOPT SUCH A WAY OF LIFE AND TELL OTHER MEMBERS OF UR COMMUNITY THE SAME????* U promised now, dont take a U-Turn from ur promise as it wud be UnIslamic  !!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.


Bro, Can u please elaborate on the relevance of this example here??? Having the ability to feel/sense is different from having the ability to see or hear!!!! Dont be so confused!! DO I need to enlighten a guy like u on such a simple thing?? 
First in ur first post u talk about about wars and terrorism in the same meaning!! NExt u show the same confusion here ???





			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I do question about things and do not believe in blind faith. I even reasearch to find an answer. Also I believe in Islam not because I am born muslim but because it coincides with Logic and Science. With no offence to any other religion I can never believe that a Idol made by a human being to be God, God is something unimaginable we cannot create a idol, a picture or anything of him. And in Islam I have to only believe that there is only 1 God who has power to all.


Religion in YOUR definition is an organization and a set of rules as u say. So in ur definition I'm not much religiously devoted and wud like to die if I had such a religion made of rules that u had to follow! I dont visit temples much. For me my parents are like GOD to me. Its because of them I exist and continue to exist not because of ALMIGHTY!
So I wud like to make an idol of them or embedd them/their picture in my heart. So u see there is nothing wrong in idol worship. The one who u worship, u shud actually have a picture of him/her in u heart!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> The basic difference between Islam and Hinduism which I believe is of apostrophe S ('s). Hindus say Fire is God, sun is God, Moon is God etc etc and Muslims say everything is of God's.


Who told u Hindus think like that??? Stupid serials??? U said Media is stupid to potray Muslims as terrorist! Then let me say Media is stupid for this tooo!
Islam is just some 1000-2000 yrs old religion (The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D.). But do u know, Hinduism is ALMOST as old as Earth?? U may laugh on this, as most do! U may say how ALMOST old as earth? But this is what he fact is. Hinduism is the oldest religion on the earth.( For me religion is not an organization but a form of spirituality based on facts ). And as time passes by, facts are twisted as u know! If ur grandfather says a secret like "Some sheep give wool" ( i know this is wierd exampl) and asks the coming generations to hide this fact in their minds, then ur great reat great......great grandson might get this fact twisted as "ALL sheep give wool". I hope u got my point. 
So as generations passed by facts about Hinduism have twisted! So I only believe only in Epics,Mahabharat,GITA and the VEDAS!! As they are the only thing that are real now.
There may already be sme twisting in ISLAM already who knows!

To tell u Hinduism is all about 3 Gods : Brahma(the creator), Vishnu(the preserver) and the Shiva (the destructor).
Some think whatever is happening in the world is just a dream seen by Vishnu! If anything wrong happens he takes avatars!
GITA says there are 10 avatars of Lord Vishnu!
*members.tripod.com/~srinivasp/mythology/avatars.html
Read this thoroughly!
It is said that everything that has an origin has an end also (It is also said that MAtrix was based on Concept of Hinduism). The earth timeline is categorised into yugs. There are 4 total yugs each one of some lakhs years. Nobody has been able to understand this mystery yet. Some scientists argue that a yug must be more than that. Some say Earths rortation must be faster at that time. Thats why so many years must have elapsed!

Believe me so fire gods and whateva u say are just twists! The real things I explained u above! And if u dont believe into anything blindly then u shud be aware of origin of ur religion, u shud have facts to prove that prophet actually had an angelic visitation etc!
For hinduism we have all facts scientifically explained! For mahabharat and exist of Pandavas there are temples dating back to 1000 yrs ago in uttaranchal, in high mountains of himalayas! For Ramayan, we have the path created of stones connecting SriLanka and India. During recent Tsunamis many statues dating back to 1000 yrs were found waved in by the Tsunami waves! In all cases carbon dating and other scientific methods,process was applied to prove that they were really old.  One more thing, GITA says the last avatar of Vishnu i.e Kalki will appear during the end of Kalyug. And according to GITA and modern science this is the Kalyug where the violence will be at its peak!!!
Do u have the same scientific explanations and facts for Islam??

We still have a few Vedas with us, which explains the cure of diabetes and all other diseases of which cure still hasnt be found in modern medical field!!!! U see american scientists were baffled and still are when they acknowledge such things from Hinduism! AND now the westerners psychos who thought themselves as the smartest and greatest are now actually researching on these Vedic techniques. So u see Vedic techniques,Yoga etc existed long before any other religion came on earth and much long before Modern Science even started!! 

So I request u to stop talking about the differences between Hinduism and Islam as I can write pages endlessly on this!





			
				imranais said:
			
		

> The difference is that Tantriks believe that God requires meat and Blood to accept their prayers and Qur’ân clearly states that unlike some other religions who believe that Almighty God requires meat and blood, in Islam when we sacrifice an animal neither the blood nor the meat reaches God but it is our piety, intentions, and righteousness while sacrificing that is taken into consideration.
> That is the reason when a sacrifice of an animal is made during Eedul-Duha (Bakri-Eed) 1/3rd portion of the animal has to be given in charity to the poor people1/3rd has to be distributed amongst relatives and friends. A maximum of 1/3rd portion may be kept for the personal household consumption.
> No portion of the animal's flesh or blood is kept separately for Almighty God, because he does not require it. Thus We dont slaughter a Goat and offer Meat and Blood to God to please him.


Yes here I agree, u think right about tantriks. U said u werent blindly follwing ur religion. But then arent u blindly following ur religion now?? Why do u need to kill goat?? Just for religion??
Religions are started after the WISE preachings of someone. That someone doest tells us to slaughter animals like goats or celebrate by burning crackers in his WISE preachings! Its only us who do so! DId prophet told to kill goat??  So how will u term this now except for BLIND FAITH ?? If this is not following ur religion blindly then what is it??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Exactly it does not bring happiness but what is lawful to be eaten can be eaten and should be eaten....
> If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. God in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.


Overpopulation of cattle?? So u started eating it?? What about DOGS and PIGS and CROWS?? They are also getting overly populated. Their multiplication is also very swift. GOD has also provided u with flesh of DOGS and PIGS. U'll find dogs every next street! So shudnt u be EATING them on this concept of urs ????
If u believe in this CONCEPT of urs blindly then shudn't u soon also be starting to eat the social animal i.e MAN and if u classify further on basis religion then a MUSLIM MAN (as they multiply more than any other religion and most have families not less than 3 kids)????

Dont get me wrong! But will u stop for a moment and stop thinking like "God in his divine wisdom or whateva". If u think God wants a balance then why dont u eat PIGS too and DOGS too? Do u want to deplete the earth of one specific animal category i.e cattle and disrupt the balance that the GOD in WISDOM wants?? In ur language I say "GOD has Given us the most important thing i.e the BRAINS to think whats wrong and right and made us the dominant species on earth" and "GOD wants u to use that brains to think harder and stop following what other say"!!!!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Thanks for reading my replies line by line too...  Plz let me know if I unintensionally hurt any of ur feelings, If I did then I sincerely apologize.


Oh well! Guess our last lines are always the same! Do apologise me too If I hurt any of ur feelings !!! Thanx for reading and quoting my lines line by line. Lets continue this debate!! 

CHeers!


----------



## king007 (Sep 26, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Bro, These are the few exceptions I'm talking about because of which there is divide between Islam and other religions. These are the few exceptions because of which most people think Muslims are terrorist minded, want to have separate country all the time, cant exist peacefully with other religions and cant coexist with National laws!
> India was divided as I said because of these laws only. India at that time had much great percentage of Muslim population who wanted separate State. Who knows if population of Indian Muslims rises, there can be another partition. And these are not exceptions, these are sparking points of communal tensions.


 Communal tension because of different Personal Laws, when did that take place. People dont get time to go out of Mandir-Masjid issue so when was a communal tension because of a different personal law. 
*India is Secular And Democratic*
In any country, the Personal Law may differ for different groups of people and for different communities. Since India is a secular and democratic country it allows different groups of people to follow their own personal law if they wish.
*Criminal Law*
Criminal law is that law which is associated with a crime or an act which directly affects the society e.g. robbing, raping, murdering, etc.
*The Criminal Law should be the same for all people*
In any country, the criminal law unlike the Personal Law cannot be different for different groups of people. It has to be same for all people of different groups and different religions e.g. In Islam if a person robs, his hands are chopped off. This punishment is not prescribed in Hinduism. If a Hindu robs a Muslim, what would be the robber’s punishment? The Muslim would want the hands of the robber to be chopped, while the Hindu Law would not agree. So let the Criminal Law which affects the society be same and it is same and Personal Law be Personal. Anyways dude, u saying implement UCC will not implement UCC and me not approving UCC cannot stop UCC. So why are we debating on this. Only thing I want to add is, the Partition of India was not because of Personal Laws but because of the Divide and Rule Policy which the Britishers used to Rule over India and still our Politicians use the same policy during elections. As a common Indian like u and me we have better things in Life to look after than fight with regards to religion. As the Qur'an says "Call people in the way of Allah and show them the right path in the most righteous way but if they dont accept ur call tell them *You do not worship what I worship and I will not worship what you worship so dont force me to worship what you worship and I will not force you to worship what I worship, for You have your Faith and I have mine" *


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Everybody wants population of India to decrease so as to reduce all population related problems like unemployment,poverty etc. For this family planning was thought of. Why did the muslims oppose this? Arent they interested in contributing,solving national problems?


Majority of muslims did not oppose it and will support such movements of National Interest. The small faction which might have opposed it are the people who are presented as the face of the muslim community but in reality they are only a fraction of people.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Most muslim families have not less than 3 kids. These families arent able to feed their kids. And then go poor. Then they say govenrment is not doing enough for them. Who is responsible? Them or the governemnt?


 You cannot point out fingers and say only muslims have 3 or more children. Maybe because Muslims are in minority they get noticed for such things or maybe people make such things noticable. I will only give u one example of a Hindu having more than 3 children, Mr. Lalu Prasad Yadav, he has *9* children. Population explosion cannot be blamed on one community, we all are equally responsible for it.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If they follow laws equally dont u think it will be good for everyone? No more communal tensions I mean and no more population explosions.


As I said earlier Communal tensions have nothing to do with Personal Law, Personal Law is only for a particular community and it does not affect society on a whole...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Also to maintain equality dont u think subjects such as "Muslim Quota", "Muslim Reservation", "Muslim Vote" shud be abolished??


 Where did u hear something called as "Muslim Quota/Muslim Reservation"??? I believe in free India there should not be any reservations except financial reservation for poor people who cannot afford good quality education. All admissions to all institutions should be purely on Merit and if a candidate after getting selected cannot afford it, he should be fully supported financially....  


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Dont u think the gap and partiality is rising enough?? Dont u think Muslims are being selfish to have everything for their comfort i.e first the exceptional LAWS as u said , second RESERVATION FOR MUSLIMS , third asking their community members to elect a governement of their common choice so that it will do more good for MUSLIMS ALONE i.e MUSLIMS VOTE ?? And at the end most of them still say they are suffering in India to gain some more priviledges and gain sympathy!! Dont u think its tooo much??


Sorry, I dont believe what u said? I as a muslim do not feel I am suffering in India as a muslim, I get equal opportunities everywhere where I am eligible except in few sections where Hinduist think all Muslims are Pakistanis and they should not be living in India. And I dont complain about it because I know these people (whether Hindu or Muslim) have no other work then just fight in the name of religion.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I dont agree with this!
> Will u keep saying this until disintegration has actually happened? Its similar to thing that is lost. most people dont realise the importance of thing until its lost. And then try to get it back when its lost.
> Isnt the history witness that we were actually partitioned? How u know it wont happen again?
> 5-10 years after partition everyone was sad. No communal tensions were there. 10-20 years the differences again started to rise. Now we see communal tensions every year! How can u be sure partition wont happen? Cant u learn from the past and be convinced until the partition has actually taken place? Its a different matter tha most of us dont want a partition, but how many broadminded/educated people are there in the country? or as @yamaraj said how many REAL muslims are there in the country?


Sir, Disintegration can happen anywhere in any country. Biggest example is Pakistan though had one religion got divided and Bangladesh was formed. So Disintegration cannot be predicted or planned. And belive me everyone is just fed up of communal violence and hatred. Example is after 93 mumbai blasts there were riots and see 2006, after mumbai train blasts all Indians stood united, helped each other, irrespective of the religion. If u were in Mumbai (I dont know where u are from) u would have noticed the kind of oneness both the communities exhibited giving a strong reply to Terrorists u cannot divide us now, United we stand and we will stay United now...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> How can u say they are not Muslims? They must be practising Islam more than u do! Every mother says not to drink or smoke. But if a child does so, is he no longer her kid?


 They are muslims only on the Birth Certificate, if they practiced Islam and even if they have slightest of Knowledge about Islam they would not even thought of Drinking, or indulging in adultery (illegal sex) are the biggest sins as per Islamic Laws.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Most Muslims say interacting with other religion members is alo UnIslamic! So for them u must be UnIslamic then!


 That's Crap, whoever said this to u must be an uneducated roadside fool. All human beings are created by God, u have ur faith and I have mine, I give respect to expect respect from others.


> Even a 3 month old child girl,a girl in saree or salwar kameez is raped these days so why will they care about Burqa?


 Thats a Insane thing, I would suggest Capital Punishment (as suggested by Islamic Laws also) to any Rapist. I do not agree to it, I just said compared to girl wearing burkha and girl wearing western outfits, western outfits are more vulnerable. If u argue on this then there are insane people who even sex with their own sister/mother. I just mean Burkha is safer but obviously nothing is 100% safe.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And why arent there any dances and other happy thing in Muslim festivals except for feast?


 Islam is a religion which believes in simplicity. Music, dancing etc is prohibited according to Islam. What u consider as Happy thing may not be as Happy as u think...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Dances,Living openly in the SUN during winters etc are some of things Women enjoy the most.


 Intermingling of sexes is Strictly Prohibited in Islam and more often than not leads to adultery. Just for example in Navratri festival how many girls/guys start an short term affair, how many girls lose their virginity, how many extra marital affairs start. Not everything that seems nice is always nice. That does not mean Muslim women do not enjoy Life, they do but there are certain boundaries which all practicing muslim women gracefully except...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Why is it most Muslim girls are so desparate to learn Bharat Natiyam? I'm not saying this, but I was surprised to see it on news channels some months ago. If u think I'm making stories then let me tell u I dont like to talk absurd and dont expect the same from opponent! Nobody must be reading and watching news like I do!


 Never heard that news buddy even though I keep myself updated with all latest news...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways u been talking and emphasising a lot on plants. I told u plants and animals are different categories and arent classified for no reasons!So now let me tell u ......A living form is said to feel pain and suffering if it has a NERVOUS SYSTEM. Birds,animals,humans all have nervous systems. They can sense pain. On the other hand, Plants dont have NERVOUS SYSTEM. And yes they dont feel pain. This was not mine but a scientific definition.


Science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the masters whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer in U.S.A. who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human beings. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water. Latest researches show that the plants can even feel happy and sad. It can also cry. Do goodle and u will find many such sites which Prove that plants do feel pain
	
	



```
*www.department13designs.com/vegan.html
```


```
*www.uncoveror.com/plants.htm
```



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If they wud have felt pain then
> 1. cud u explain me the concept of autumn, why leaves themselves shrink and then reappear during springs.


 Even Snakes shed its skin does it mean it does not have life?





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> 2. Cud u explain me why dont the plant die even when break a branch of it?


 In the same way as  human has to cut his one hand or leg, he too does not die....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> List is endless! I can fill the whole page on this! So dont say plants have senses!


 You can fill up pages saying Plants do not have senses or feel pain and I can just give u scientific facts proving that Plants do feel pain and have senses.





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways I told u now....I hope u wont feel pity for plants anymore. But yea every thing has its own importance. Plants provode us O2. So next time before cutting a tree think again  !


 I dont cut trees... 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Others say then NAILS,HAIR must be having life tooo as they can grow too after the person dies!


 Never heard such things, did some research and got some knowledge that Nails and Hair do not grow after the person dies... 
	
	



```
*www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp
```



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> AND u shudnt talk about anything like plants on which ur ignorant! See I didnt talk about Sharia at all! Neways WHo told u plants have senses?? Muslim leaders/clerics??


 Science bro, established science!


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Now why did u say CREATURE urself???? Plants dont come under the category of CREATURE!! I hope u got my point. I told u to understand the difference between plants and animals and understand about their classifications. But u didnt!! This really lowers the spirit of a good,peaceful discussion.


 Dont lose patience buddy just because we dont agree to a point. I am trying to prove things scientifically to you and not religiously....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I see u only brought "Plants" in the discussion to defend the slaughtering of goats though u were ignorant about plants!!


 I am not defending anything here just trying to prove you that if killing animals is sin so is plants. 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> *SO ARE U READY TO ADOPT SUCH A WAY OF LIFE AND TELL OTHER MEMBERS OF UR COMMUNITY THE SAME????* U promised now, dont take a U-Turn from ur promise as it wud be UnIslamic  !!


To do what? Tell everyone that dont kill animals lets kill plants because they have less senses. Where did I used the word "PROMISE"? 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Who told u Hindus think like that??? Stupid serials??? U said Media is stupid to potray Muslims as terrorist! Then let me say Media is stupid for this tooo!
> Islam is just some 1000-2000 yrs old religion (The prophet Muhammad (circa 570-632 A.D.) introduced Islam in 610 A.D.). But do u know, Hinduism is ALMOST as old as Earth?? U may laugh on this, as most do! U may say how ALMOST old as earth? But this is what he fact is. Hinduism is the oldest religion on the earth.


*1.  Islam is the oldest religion*
Hinduism is not the oldest of all the religions. It is Islam which is the first and the oldest of all religions. People have a misconception that Islam is 1400 years old and that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the founder of this religion. Islam existed since time immemorial, ever since man first set foot on this earth. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not the founder of Islam. He was the last and final Messenger of Almighty God.
*2.  The oldest religion need not be the purest and the most authentic religion*
A religion cannot be claimed to be most pure and authentic, only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying that the water he has kept in an open glass, in his house, outside the refrigerator, for three months is purer than the water which has just been collected in a clean glass, immediately after it has been purified.
*3.  The latest religion need not be the purest and the most authentic religion*
On the other hand a religion cannot be claimed to be the purest or authentic, only on the criterion that the religion is new or the latest. A bottle of distilled water which is sealed, packed and kept in the refrigerator for three months is much purer than a bottle of water freshly collected from the sea.
*4.  For religion to be pure and authentic, it should not have interpolations, changes and revisions in its scriptures revealed from God*
For any religion to be pure and authentic, its scriptures should not contain any interpolation, addition, deletion or revision. Moreover the religion’s source of inspiration and direction should be Almighty God. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture on the face of the earth which has been maintained it its original form. All the other religious scriptures, of all the other religions have interpolations, additions, deletions or revisions. The Qur’an has been in the memory of a multitude of people, intact in its original form ever since its revelation, and now there are hundreds of thousands of people who have preserved it in their memory. Moreover, if you compare the copies made by Caliph Uthman from the original Qur’an which is yet present in the museum in Tashkent and in Koptaki museum in Turkey, they are the same as the ones we possess today.
*5.  The oldest religion need not be best religion*
A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 1998, because it is older. He would be considered to be a fool to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 1998 Toyota car, just because it is older.
*6.  The latest religion need not be the best religion*
On the other hand a religion cannot be called as the best religion only on the criterion that the religion is new or that it came later. It is similar to a person who says that my 800 cc Suzuki car manufactured in 1999 is better than a 5000 cc Mercedes 500 SEL manufactured in 1997. To judge which car is better, a person should compare the specifications of the car e.g. the power of the car, safety measures, the capacity of the cylinders, the pickup, the speed, the comfort, etc. 5000 cc Mercedes, 500 SEL car manufactured in 1997, is far superior and better than a 800 cc Suzuki (Maruti Suzuki 800) manufactured in 1999.
Not trying to offend you bro but what is old need not always be the right or best and same thing applies for new things. We should think logically and Scientifically on this and not with emotions.....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So as generations passed by facts about Hinduism have twisted! So I only believe only in Epics,Mahabharat,GITA and the VEDAS!! As they are the only thing that are real now.
> There may already be sme twisting in ISLAM already who knows!


 Thats what I said above^^^


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> To tell u Hinduism is all about 3 Gods : Brahma(the creator), Vishnu(the preserver) and the Shiva (the destructor).


 I am sorry if I am offensive or hurting in answering this one...
*3 Gods:* Why three God's does that mean each of the God's have some deficiency, i.e Brahma (the creator) cannot preserve what he created or destroy it himself or Vishnu(the preserver) cannot create or destroy anything or Shiva (the destructor) cannot create or preserve but only destroy??? Thats the reason I believe strongly in Islam because Islam believes in only 1 God, he is the creator of the heavens and the earth, he is the preserver and he alone can destroy it.... Till now I thought and had heard there are thousands of God in Hinduism and Hindus themselves dont know what to worship and what not to worship, You brought the number down to 3....!


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Believe me so fire gods and whateva u say are just twists! The real things I explained u above! And if u dont believe into anything blindly then u shud be aware of origin of ur religion, u shud have facts to prove that prophet actually had an angelic visitation etc!


 Yes I am aware of origin of my religion.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> One more thing, GITA says the last avatar of Vishnu i.e Kalki will appear during the end of Kalyug. And according to GITA and modern science this is the Kalyug where the violence will be at its peak!!!


I suggest you to read this, as it will be too long to put it here:

```
*www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/part6.html
```



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Do u have the same scientific explanations and facts for Islam??


 Bro there are hundreds of it, Visit this link if u would like to know more about it, where SCIENTISTS talk about facts in Qur'an:

```
*www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html
```



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So I request u to stop talking about the differences between Hinduism and Islam as I can write pages endlessly on this!


I am not talking about differences bro but only answering you....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Overpopulation of cattle?? So u started eating it?? What about DOGS and PIGS and CROWS?? They are also getting overly populated. Their multiplication is also very swift. GOD has also provided u with flesh of DOGS and PIGS. U'll find dogs every next street! So shudnt u be EATING them on this concept of urs ????


There are animals which are allowed to be eaten and animals other than what is allowed is strictly forbidden to be eaten. All the animals which are allowed to be eaten feed on plants i.e they do not consume meat or blood and there are other conditions to it as well. All the animals what u mentioned have blood and flesh and are forbidden to be consumed by human beings.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If u believe in this CONCEPT of urs blindly then shudn't u soon also be starting to eat the social animal i.e MAN and if u classify further on basis religion then a MUSLIM MAN (as they multiply more than any other religion and most have families not less than 3 kids)????


 First of all u are getting offensive brother... Second as I said above there are animals which are allowed to be eaten and others that are forbidden to be eaten. 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> In ur language I say "GOD has Given us the most important thing i.e the BRAINS to think whats wrong and right and made us the dominant species on earth" and "GOD wants u to use that brains to think harder and stop following what other say"!!!!


 I agree with u, I do not follow what others say but believe in facts and surely use my brain...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Oh well! Guess our last lines are always the same! Do apologise me too If I hurt any of ur feelings !!! Thanx for reading and quoting my lines line by line. Lets continue this debate!!
> CHeers!



Same line again, be patient as I read ur last post in ur last lines u were losing it slowly. Thanks for reading and I sincerely apologize if I was offensive or hurting...


----------



## ketanbodas (Sep 26, 2006)

Bull I think he is alive and kicking ass


----------



## mediator (Sep 26, 2006)

imranais said:
			
		

> Communal tension because of different Personal Laws, when did that take place. People dont get time to go out of Mandir-Masjid issue so when was a communal tension because of a different personal law.


Dont u read TV news and reports from news papers? If u did u wudnt such question! To give an example there's been a lotta reports where a hindu girl married a muslim boy. The muslim boy insured her that nobody will make her wear burqa. But after the marriage did so and forced her to wear burqa. But she didnt agree to wear burqa etc. What next? The girl phical misery was unexplainable and then there were clashes between hindu and muslim groups on this!! Need more examples??

Neways arent there laws in Islam 
1. that prohibit the person to make nude pictures of Hindu goddesses like MI HUSSAIN did?
2. that prohobit the muslims to sell pictures of Hindu Goddesses like in breaking news showed by Several TV channels in which foriegners were found and telling that they bought the pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses from Jama Masjid Area and many other Muslim dominated areas
3. That prohibit the Muslims to marry hindu girls and stay outta misery of wearing burqa? And what if the muslim boy marries the hindu girl? Will u call him unislamic again?? Then dont u think fardeen khan(married to Natasha), shahrukh khan(married to a punjaban), saif ali khan(married to amrita singh) etc all UnIslamic??
4. That seek forgiveness so that Pope cud be forgived even when he apologised twice?





			
				imranais said:
			
		

> India is Secular And Democratic
> In any country, the Personal Law may differ for different groups of people and for different communities. Since India is a secular and democratic country it allows different groups of people to follow their own personal law if they wish.


My friend India is not the same as it used be 50 yrs ago!! Do u know what is democracy and secularism?
Democracy is equal right to vote on one's own outlook not by following any religion and or anything else! Then why do u have concept of MUSLIM VOTE?? If u dont know about it, then may be its the time u shud desparately learn about it!! 
As for secularism, forget it! India is no more secular. India being a secualr is laughable concept now where politics and religion have been mixed so deeply that its difficult to distinguish now.

So just dont go by the definition of google alone bro, take the picture from real life tooo! ANd question whether its really secular??
And what do mean by "*it allows different groups of people to follow their own personal law if they wish.*" Till now I have only heard of Muslims having their own laws and no other religion I have heard of such laws! Why only Muslims??




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Criminal Law
> Criminal law is that law which is associated with a crime or an act which directly affects the society e.g. robbing, raping, murdering, etc.
> The Criminal Law should be the same for all people
> In any country, the criminal law unlike the Personal Law cannot be different for different groups of people. It has to be same for all people of different groups and different religions e.g. In Islam if a person robs, his hands are chopped off. This punishment is not prescribed in Hinduism. If a Hindu robs a Muslim, what would be the robber’s punishment? The Muslim would want the hands of the robber to be chopped, while the Hindu Law would not agree. So let the Criminal Law which affects the society be same and it is same and Personal Law be Personal. Anyways dude, u saying implement UCC will not implement UCC and me not approving UCC cannot stop UCC. So why are we debating on this. Only thing I want to add is, the Partition of India was not because of Personal Laws but because of the Divide and Rule Policy which the Britishers used to Rule over India and still our Politicians use the same policy during elections. As a common Indian like u and me we have better things in Life to look after than fight with regards to religion. As the Qur'an says "Call people in the way of Allah and show them the right path in the most righteous way but if they dont accept ur call tell them You do not worship what I worship and I will not worship what you worship so dont force me to worship what you worship and I will not force you to worship what I worship, for You have your Faith and I have mine"


U google a lot! U must be the first one who must be googling that intesivley to prove ur word. Neways U google but still u havent found out the truth??
Partition was not because of Divide and rule policy alone. Why do u blame Britishers alone?? It was Jinnah who motivated muslims and asked for a piece of land now so called Pakistan! Hindus never supported such thing. Are muslims so easily motivatable that they'll believe to any crap they hear??
Neways why do u keep saying personal laws dude?? Other religions dont have any personal laws! If u wanna say then isolate the Muslim laws and dont mix them with other religions. So say Muslim personal laws which I surely think is absurd!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Majority of muslims did not oppose it and will support such movements of National Interest. The small faction which might have opposed it are the people who are presented as the face of the muslim community but in reality they are only a fraction of people.


ANd who elected or selected these "small faction" of people from Islamic world?? Why dont other muslims oppose them? On one hand u say No muslim believes blindly. So now if they are not following these "small faction" of leaders, then why arent they opposing them openly?? And let me tell u this small faction of people include "Shahi Imam of jama masjid" i.e Bukari too and most of the other major Imams! Why dont muslims oppose them??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> You cannot point out fingers and say only muslims have 3 or more children. Maybe because Muslims are in minority they get noticed for such things or maybe people make such things noticable. I will only give u one example of a Hindu having more than 3 children, Mr. Lalu Prasad Yadav, he has 9 children. Population explosion cannot be blamed on one community, we all are equally responsible for it.


Bingo I was expecting this Laloo statement. Like u said there are blacksheep in every religion, u can say same here! And so forget about laloo. He's made fun of extensively by Hindus alone! And I'm not pointing out fingers but stating out the facts that come on Tv news channels and newspapers! But u see I didnt say all muslim families, I said most muslim families. Likewise in most hindu families u will only find not more than 2 kids per family.
And not only news. Muslims having not less than 3 kids is observed by me in reality too! I have many muslim friends. But when I ask them how many brothers and sisters u have in total in ur family? None them replies with a positive integer less than 4.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> As I said earlier Communal tensions have nothing to do with Personal Law, Personal Law is only for a particular community and it does not affect society on a whole...


Wrong I told u above the same! If a community has personal laws(Muslim community) then communal tensions wont take place if that community is isolated! The moment the community gets mixed up with other communities the differences will spark up and then we have comunal tensions! 




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Where did u hear something called as "Muslim Quota/Muslim Reservation"??? I believe in free India there should not be any reservations except financial reservation for poor people who cannot afford good quality education. All admissions to all institutions should be purely on Merit and if a candidate after getting selected cannot afford it, he should be fully supported financially....


On contrary, It is I who will be surprised if u havent heard about it! Heard of ALIGARH MUSLIM UNIVERSITY??? It has a whopping 50% Musim reservation! AND following its footsteps "JAMIA MILIA ISLAMIA" wants 50% MUSLIM reservation too and the reason they give?? => "To uphold the status of minorities"!
And what u believe, u shud tell that to the heads of that university and the various IMAMS and I'll be surprised if u can tell them that or they'll listen to u.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Sorry, I dont believe what u said? I as a muslim do not feel I am suffering in India as a muslim, I get equal opportunities everywhere where I am eligible except in few sections where Hinduist think all Muslims are Pakistanis and they should not be living in India. And I dont complain about it because I know these people (whether Hindu or Muslim) have no other work then just fight in the name of religion.


Again I say what u feel is what u shud tel to the heads of these institutes and the various Imams! And according to ur last line here then the Shahi imam and the heads of these institutes must be communal?? Isnt it?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Sir, Disintegration can happen anywhere in any country. Biggest example is Pakistan though had one religion got divided and Bangladesh was formed. So Disintegration cannot be predicted or planned. And belive me everyone is just fed up of communal violence and hatred. Example is after 93 mumbai blasts there were riots and see 2006, after mumbai train blasts all Indians stood united, helped each other, irrespective of the religion. If u were in Mumbai (I dont know where u are from) u would have noticed the kind of oneness both the communities exhibited giving a strong reply to Terrorists u cannot divide us now, United we stand and we will stay United now...


My friend Disintegration as u said can happen more than 1 reason! like economic instability, regious differences etc! If u know the history well u'll see Pakistan was not divided by itself to Bangladesh and Pakistan and now Pakistan wanna take revenge for the same and destabilise India!
I know nobody in India will allow another partition to take place! But that doesnt mean we shud allow religious differences like personal laws for muslims to sprout all the time! Like u said United we stand, u shud apply the same in laws to! 
Why do u fear so much to drop down ur personal muslim laws for the sake of masses?? I told u before too that all other religions think of muslims as terrorist minded, narrow minded etc because of these laws only.

U have Muslim-Hindu riots each year, muslim-Christian riots where christaian are in majority. Media covers jains and buddhists etc in the same meaning as hinduism as they fight on the same side of hinduism and dont have any differences! So u may call that indirectly Muslim-jain, muslim-buddhist war tooo!
So why Muslims have fights and differences with all religions?? If its not for the personal laws then can u elaborate what is it?? Why is there so much mess wherever muslims coexist with other religions!

I agree about the Mumbai Blasts! And I hope such unity is shown in future too! But then again what about Malegaon blasts???? 30 Muslims dead, convict an Let commander! And then what the muslims say there?? I'm sure u must be reading and watching LIVE news too ?? 
A Muslim girl said "Whenever some blasts takes place a Muslim is convicted. Now we have blasts here in a Masjid. Now who the culprit?" and pointing the  fingers directly too Hindus even though the culprit nabbed was a Let commander!! Who filled such crap in the mind of that young Muslim girl?? If not that "Small section" of muslim society i.e muslim leaders, then who else?? 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> They are muslims only on the Birth Certificate, if they practiced Islam and even if they have slightest of Knowledge about Islam they would not even thought of Drinking, or indulging in adultery (illegal sex) are the biggest sins as per Islamic Laws.


Then may be u shud tell those muslims that! That it is unislamic to tease Hindu girls, drink , marry hindu girl, voting commonly to elect a government, asking for rights selfishly etc, doing violence etc! Then according to u the whole Pakistan must be UnIslamic as terrosim is their main industry, sex scandals are rising there, use of drugs is also rising??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> That's Crap, whoever said this to u must be an uneducated roadside fool. All human beings are created by God, u have ur faith and I have mine, I give respect to expect respect from others.


Well its not whoever told me, its what I have learnt by watching TV debates and interaction with hardcore muslims! Maybe u shud interact at mass level with the members of ur community and tell them what u think!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Thats a Insane thing, I would suggest Capital Punishment (as suggested by Islamic Laws also) to any Rapist. I do not agree to it, I just said compared to girl wearing burkha and girl wearing western outfits, western outfits are more vulnerable. If u argue on this then there are insane people who even sex with their own sister/mother. I just mean Burkha is safer but obviously nothing is 100% safe.


And I told u not to compare the Indian culture to western things!! I agree about the capital punishement! But u cud also have compared "A Muslim girl wearing a Burqa and a South Indian lady wearing a saree"! Now tell if the sex hungry freaks wud make any distinctions! Atleast they wud take the mask of the burqa girl dont u think?? So what u think now??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Islam is a religion which believes in simplicity. Music, dancing etc is prohibited according to Islam. What u consider as Happy thing may not be as Happy as u think...


And u blindly follow Islam?? Then it means u must not be enjoying properly ur life to the fullest! Why aren't muslims allowed to live their life properly?? Why just because Islam said so?? If this isnt blind belief that what is it?? Why Music,dances are prohibited according to Islam?? Did prophet said so in his teachings that others blindly followed it? 

Please Tell me any piece of WISDOM contained in this teaching!! Music is considered an art. Its even used to cure people! Why muslim are prohibited of such art?? Then according to u .....people like Pakistani band Jal, President Abdul Kalam, AR rahman, Strings and many more must be UnIslamic?? And because of dances and music again celebs like SRK,fardeen khan,Saif ali khan,salman khan must be unislamic??

Music and dancing are also part of simplicity. The why is such partiality in Islam??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Intermingling of sexes is Strictly Prohibited in Islam and more often than not leads to adultery. Just for example in Navratri festival how many girls/guys start an short term affair, how many girls lose their virginity, how many extra marital affairs start. Not everything that seems nice is always nice. That does not mean Muslim women do not enjoy Life, they do but there are certain boundaries which all practicing muslim women gracefully except..


If intermixing of sexes is prohibited then u must not be living with ur mother and sisters?? Then it means that in all Muslim families all are either male or female isnt it?? 
For the Navratri thing, I cant believe that such an interesting debater I'm talking to, likes to see negetive in every aspect of life! Absurd replies like this clearly reflect the true nature of the debator. And I can see ur nature now! Isnt it Unislamic to think absurdly,ignorantly and pervertly like this?? Wow and u call urself REAL MUSLIM?? Guess the count of number of REAL MUSLIMS is zero now! I didnt wanted to believe it but as @yamaraj says it true then all muslims are fakers and a disgrace to ISLAM. They only know how to see negetive in every aspect of life . They know its a sin to kill an animal like goat, but still for the sake of their religion they will talk absurd and nonsense like Plants having senses and fight facts. The only thing I guess the Muslims wanna do is blindly follow their religous heads which as u described as "small section" and "road side fools"! I thought I wud gain something by interacting a Muslim like u as I thought u must be broadminded and get to know what Muslims really think. But it seems their minds is full of crap like u said about Navratri! And crap and nonsense is the only thing they can talk about!

Neways have u attended any navratri?? Do u know what is navratri?? Every body enjoys from a 3 yr old girl to 70 yr old man! There are no short term affairs but broadminded and reliable friendship, No girl lose her virginity but interacts with boys. It helps them to find their life partner too!

Does Islam preach u that having frienship of such kind is UnIslamic?? That wud be very pityful then.

Do have such happiness in Isamic festivals?? Do girls are allowed to see boys and decide themselves whether he is good to be life partner or not?? Or u again have that burqa system?

Dont get me wrong, but thats a fact that a person reflects what he does and think of and why do u think these "small section" of society think like that. Can u tell what it reflects??

I supported u in first post and was against the statement that all "Muslims are terrorists". But I do support the statement that "MOST terrorists are Muslims".
In ur first post u gave example mixing wars in same context with terrorism and those examples are older than 20 yrs or so! I agree bush is terrorist number one! But tha fact is most of britishers and americans like the rest of world dont support Bush on IRAQ! Their support for Afghanistan was understandable but not further than that! If u say afghanistan operation  was also a terrorism then let me remind u not only bush but also Northern   Alliance consisting of hardcore MUSLIMS supported him! 
But now u have terrorists bomb blasts everywhere where the convict found are Muslims! So can u tell what these terrorists are reflecting?? They are hardcore Islamists! But if again say they are unislamic then who is islamic and how many Real Muslims are there?? I guess no REAL MUSLIMS left then!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Never heard that news buddy even though I keep myself updated with all latest news


IF havent heard it on news then What can I say.....Conduct a survey urself! Do a sting operation and find it out urself without telling the Muslim Girls that ur a Muslim or they might not be so open!!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the masters whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer in U.S.A. who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human beings. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water. Latest researches show that the plants can even feel happy and sad. It can also cry. Do goodle and u will find many such sites which Prove that plants do feel pain


I told u to read how we define the ability to sense!! But u took it to research! Neways any further misconception u have or just the FREQUENCY FACTOR?? Is there anything else ur religious heads told u to support the goat issue absurdly and ignorantly??  May be u wud like to read this then to eradicate all ur misconceptions! 

*www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Morality/Biology/Do Animals Feel Pain.htm 

It starts with....

```
Some Muslims have been misled by Internet discussions indicating that plants feel pain. This argument is used by those who wish to justify their meat consumption by claiming that because both plants and animals feel pain, there is no ethical or religious difference between killing plants for food and killing animals for food.
```
So read it and hope u wont talk like KILLING plants and they have "NO SENSES" even after 2 scientific posts by me! If u really want to know then open up the bio books and study how we define "SENSES" first!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Even Snakes shed its skin does it mean it does not have life?


This wud be the same as "we cut finger nails so dont we have life"! Do I need to tell u the difference between plants and other categories again now?? Ur good at googling. Try to find it urself first or in next post if u fail, then I promise to enlighten u about this!!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> In the same way as human has to cut his one hand or leg, he too does not die...


Thats an absurd example actually! Just got one thing to say. Try to cut ur arm or leg without applying any bandage afterwards and then lets see if u die or not! I cant believe u said such an absurd thing. I told u I dont like to talk absurd and dont expect the opponent to talk absurd either. BUt still?? It seems ur loosing ur cool or are trying to defend something by baseless and absurd replies!
Do I need to tell one simple thing to u?? Thats i.e DEATH DUE TO BLOOD LOSS?? If a branch is cutoff from a plant it reappears after sometime. Do have same thing to say for animals and humans??

Please again and again I'm trying to request u to read and classify and find out the diferences between plants an animals. I told u shudnt speak about the things u dont know as it shows ur ignorance. And then to hide that ignorance u start speaking absurdly and obscurely! Dont get me wrong, but I think thats what u r doing right now!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> You can fill up pages saying Plants do not have senses or feel pain and I can just give u scientific facts proving that Plants do feel pain and have senses.


Read the above link and tell me then if u say the same again!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Science bro, established science!


Tell me any one Basic bio book that says "Plants have senses"! ANd I hope u read my link! But if u still think that, then it will be a misery for u. That just to support the goat thing ur fighting the facts!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I am not defending anything here just trying to prove you that if killing animals is sin so is plants.


Thats a misconception between muslims! But why muslims? Read the link again!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> To do what? Tell everyone that dont kill animals lets kill plants because they have less senses. Where did I used the word "PROMISE"?


But u said u wud be the first one to adopt this way of life if u can live without killing! See u can live on BEANS,CEREALS,MILK,POTATO,TOMATO etc. For these u dont even have to cut the tree. Ready to adopt this way of life??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 1. Islam is the oldest religion
> Hinduism is not the oldest of all the religions. It is Islam which is the first and the oldest of all religions. People have a misconception that Islam is 1400 years old and that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the founder of this religion. Islam existed since time immemorial, ever since man first set foot on this earth. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not the founder of Islam. He was the last and final Messenger of Almighty God.


So who founded Islam then if not prophet?? Are sure of this?? If u know islam then u must be knowing who was the first messenger?? It doesnt matter if the religion is oldest, but what matters who founded it and when!
May be u can start a new religion today also and say that this religion existed when the earth was in its initial stages!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 2. The oldest religion need not be the purest and the most authentic religion
> A religion cannot be claimed to be most pure and authentic, only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying that the water he has kept in an open glass, in his house, outside the refrigerator, for three months is purer than the water which has just been collected in a clean glass, immediately after it has been purified.


I dont agree with this. Hinduism is the purest as the fresh himalayan water! Ever heard of Hindu militant organizations who may coz this impurity??
But in Islam, terrorism is common, every next day we witness that! How can be ISlam so pure then?? 
Neways for the water example Ican reply by wine/beer example where oldest can be purest. U see wine/beer which is kept for longer days is much pure and tasty then the fresh ones! This is due to catalytic actions!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 3. The latest religion need not be the purest and the most authentic religion
> On the other hand a religion cannot be claimed to be the purest or authentic, only on the criterion that the religion is new or the latest. A bottle of distilled water which is sealed, packed and kept in the refrigerator for three months is much purer than a bottle of water freshly collected from the sea.


Guess u dont know how to give examples either! What is the comparison between a sea water and a distilled water?? Please elaborate!
And ur right the lastest religion founded probably Islam need not be purest and most authentic and not so happiness giving to its fellow members like u said urself!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 4. For religion to be pure and authentic, it should not have interpolations, changes and revisions in its scriptures revealed from God
> For any religion to be pure and authentic, its scriptures should not contain any interpolation, addition, deletion or revision. Moreover the religion’s source of inspiration and direction should be Almighty God. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture on the face of the earth which has been maintained it its original form. All the other religious scriptures, of all the other religions have interpolations, additions, deletions or revisions. The Qur’an has been in the memory of a multitude of people, intact in its original form ever since its revelation, and now there are hundreds of thousands of people who have preserved it in their memory. Moreover, if you compare the copies made by Caliph Uthman from the original Qur’an which is yet present in the museum in Tashkent and in Koptaki museum in Turkey, they are the same as the ones we possess today.


Agreed! Neways no one can believe that the oldest will remain without any twists!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 5. The oldest religion need not be best religion
> A religion cannot be claimed to be the best religion only on the criterion that it is the oldest. It is similar to a person saying, that my 19th century car is better than a Toyota car manufactured in 1998, because it is older. He would be considered to be a fool to say that his 19th century car which required a rod to be turned in circles to start it, is better than a key-start 1998 Toyota car, just because it is older.


U cant differentiate as to which religion is best! All the religions have the same preachings. But its the deed of handful or "small section" of society as u said who may change something and say like "Music and art are not allowed" and others blindly following that. Why do u obey them so much instead of reading quran urself! I'm sure prophet wasnt stupid enough to deny the muslims of simple happiness like dance and music!
If he had done that, I'm sure Islam wudnt even have started!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> 6. The latest religion need not be the best religion
> On the other hand a religion cannot be called as the best religion only on the criterion that the religion is new or that it came later. It is similar to a person who says that my 800 cc Suzuki car manufactured in 1999 is better than a 5000 cc Mercedes 500 SEL manufactured in 1997. To judge which car is better, a person should compare the specifications of the car e.g. the power of the car, safety measures, the capacity of the cylinders, the pickup, the speed, the comfort, etc. 5000 cc Mercedes, 500 SEL car manufactured in 1997, is far superior and better than a 800 cc Suzuki (Maruti Suzuki 800) manufactured in 1999.
> Not trying to offend you bro but what is old need not always be the right or best and same thing applies for new things. We should think logically and Scientifically on this and not with emotions.....


Same as above!
Guess u really dont know how to give examples! Materialistc thing have no comparison to something like spirituality and religion!



			
				imaranais said:
			
		

> mediator said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So does Islam has anything like VEDAS and ayurvedic techniques?? Why is it that the world is now actually experimenting with ayrveda and corfirming that it really works! Why is it that Muslims from Islamic nations come to India for cure?? DOesnt the ISlamic world have the cure or any ancient medical system?? And if so why arent they popular?? Why is that Muslims resort to western treatment as the last resort??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I am sorry if I am offensive or hurting in answering this one...
> 3 Gods: Why three God's does that mean each of the God's have some deficiency, i.e Brahma (the creator) cannot preserve what he created or destroy it himself or Vishnu(the preserver) cannot create or destroy anything or Shiva (the destructor) cannot create or preserve but only destroy??? Thats the reason I believe strongly in Islam because Islam believes in only 1 God, he is the creator of the heavens and the earth, he is the preserver and he alone can destroy it.... Till now I thought and had heard there are thousands of God in Hinduism and Hindus themselves dont know what to worship and what not to worship, You brought the number down to 3....!


I am sorry if I am offensive or hurting in answering this one...
But I can answer this by "Why Muslims have their Penis cut after birth"?? Did allah finds any defiency in the orginally born baby?? First u say ur Almighty knows what he is doing, then did he gave persmission to do so?? If he really wanted that? Then why didnt he made Muslims orginally born with cut Penis unlike others?? Do u want to say all are born Hindus but only a little architecture makes them Muslims!
And about Hinduism, thats what I think! Some also say there is indeed one god who has 3 forms in the form of Trinity!

So please dont get ur notions like that like deficiencies coz if I start talking absurdly like that then there wud no stopping!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Yes I am aware of origin of my religion.


I'm not so sure that u r!

The link u gave .... => *www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/part6.html  ..... only states the similarities! The person "Zakir Naik" must be a scholar and a broadminded Muslim who wud have dared to write the comparison coz in hardcore Islamic socities no one even want to hear a single sour truth or comparison like this that may exist. 
But where is written in Gita that u shudnt even dance or play music??
The comparison link u gave is based only on the study of one person! But I do not oppose him, coz the twisting factor is always there! Can u tell the same comaprison to ur fellow members of ur community??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> There are animals which are allowed to be eaten and animals other than what is allowed is strictly forbidden to be eaten. All the animals which are allowed to be eaten feed on plants i.e they do not consume meat or blood and there are other conditions to it as well. All the animals what u mentioned have blood and flesh and are forbidden to be consumed by human beings.


And who allowed this?? Prophet himself? Did he say I made these rules and u are doomed to follow these!
Neways first u bring animals and aplants in the same context to prove ur point, say absurdly that plants have senses to prove ur point. And now u r trying to differentiate between them to prove ur next point?? Why such duality?? 
Neways then according to this modified concept of previous post of urs why dont u eat Elephants,deer,rabbits etc also??
Also like u said Almighty gave u carnivore teeth and its upto u to use them either for veg or non-veg, then similarly Pigs are omnivore but under under domstication can be made herbivore! Source : *www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~ALRF/giintro.htm !
So perhaps u can domesticate pigs since birth make them herbivore throughout and eat them! Isnt it?? So stop modifying ur posts now bro!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> First of all u are getting offensive brother... Second as I said above there are animals which are allowed to be eaten and others that are forbidden to be eaten.


Sorry bro If I been offensive, forgive me! But I dont like to talk absurd either! All I did is presenting facts! U cant ignore them!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I agree with u, I do not follow what others say but believe in facts and surely use my brain...


I'm not so sure that ur so free from following others after such an interacting discussion!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Same line again, be patient as I read ur last post in ur last lines u were losing it slowly. Thanks for reading and I sincerely apologize if I was offensive or hurting...


De-Ja-Vu!

Cheers!


----------



## rakeshishere (Sep 27, 2006)

@mediator

OMFG what a hugeeeeeeeee post.....hope some1 reads it


----------



## king007 (Sep 27, 2006)

mediator said:
			
		

> Dont u read TV news and reports from news papers? If u did u wudnt such question! To give an example there's been a lotta reports where a hindu girl married a muslim boy. The muslim boy insured her that nobody will make her wear burqa. But after the marriage did so and forced her to wear burqa. But she didnt agree to wear burqa etc. What next? The girl phical misery was unexplainable and then there were clashes between hindu and muslim groups on this!! Need more examples??


That's one off incidents which is blown out of proportion by the media. And this may have happened in some village where mostly we have uneducated people who neither have curricular education nor Islamic Education.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways arent there laws in Islam
> 1. that prohibit the person to make nude pictures of Hindu goddesses like MI HUSSAIN did?


There are definitely Laws and rules but the Question is not everybody follows it. And people who follow the rules and laws are never highlighted but people like MF Hussain are highlighted and made to appear that all muslims are like this.





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> 2. that prohobit the muslims to sell pictures of Hindu Goddesses like in breaking news showed by Several TV channels in which foriegners were found and telling that they bought the pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses from Jama Masjid Area and many other Muslim dominated areas


That's the Biggest sin in Islam i.e associating partners to Allah. Islam strictly believes in one God and people selling these pictures are far away from Islam as they fail to follow the first basic pillar of Islam i.e of Worshipping only one God.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> 3. That prohibit the Muslims to marry hindu girls and stay outta misery of wearing burqa? And what if the muslim boy marries the hindu girl? Will u call him unislamic again?? Then dont u think fardeen khan(married to Natasha), shahrukh khan(married to a punjaban), saif ali khan(married to amrita singh) etc all UnIslamic??


 The prominent names u have quoted have nothing to do with religion. These personalities have nothing to do with religion. As I said there is difference between belonging to a religion bec ur birth certificate indicates that religion and practicing the religion.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> 4. That seek forgiveness so that Pope cud be forgived even when he apologised twice?


 First off all Pope should not have spoken such a thing, but yes he was forgived after he sincerely apologised.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> My friend India is not the same as it used be 50 yrs ago!! Do u know what is democracy and secularism?
> Democracy is equal right to vote on one's own outlook not by following any religion and or anything else! Then why do u have concept of MUSLIM VOTE?? If u dont know about it, then may be its the time u shud desparately learn about it!!
> As for secularism, forget it! India is no more secular. India being a secualr is laughable concept now where politics and religion have been mixed so deeply that its difficult to distinguish now.


 I agree with u to a certain extent. Our politicians do make a mockery of Secularism and democracy...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U google a lot! U must be the first one who must be googling that intesivley to prove ur word.


 Yes Google is my best online friend but not to prove the above point bro...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways U google but still u havent found out the truth??
> Partition was not because of Divide and rule policy alone. Why do u blame Britishers alone?? It was Jinnah who motivated muslims and asked for a piece of land now so called Pakistan! Hindus never supported such thing.


Hindus never supported such thing? Think again. Yes u can partly blame it on Jinnah also....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> ANd who elected or selected these "small faction" of people from Islamic world?? Why dont other muslims oppose them? On one hand u say No muslim believes blindly. So now if they are not following these "small faction" of leaders, then why arent they opposing them openly?? And let me tell u this small faction of people include "Shahi Imam of jama masjid" i.e Bukari too and most of the other major Imams! Why dont muslims oppose them??


 Bukhari and other Imams were against UCC and not against a National movement of Population control bro....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Bingo I was expecting this Laloo statement. Like u said there are blacksheep in every religion, u can say same here! And so forget about laloo. He's made fun of extensively by Hindus alone! And I'm not pointing out fingers but stating out the facts that come on Tv news channels and newspapers! But u see I didnt say all muslim families, I said most muslim families. Likewise in most hindu families u will only find not more than 2 kids per family.


 I have seen many Hindu families having more than 2 kids. Most families of my friends and people around me have 3 or more children. 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And not only news. Muslims having not less than 3 kids is observed by me in reality too! I have many muslim friends. But when I ask them how many brothers and sisters u have in total in ur family? None them replies with a positive integer less than 4.


 Its the way u look at it, there are many muslim families who have only 1 or 2 kids and many hindu families who have more than 3. As I said dont blame it on one particular commuinity. Muslims are in minority and if there is a Population Explosion in India u cannot say that the Majority community do not contribute to the Population Explosion and only our minority community is the root cause for population explosion...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> On contrary, It is I who will be surprised if u havent heard about it! Heard of ALIGARH MUSLIM UNIVERSITY??? It has a whopping 50% Musim reservation! AND following its footsteps "JAMIA MILIA ISLAMIA" wants 50% MUSLIM reservation too and the reason they give?? => "To uphold the status of minorities"!
> And what u believe, u shud tell that to the heads of that university and the various IMAMS and I'll be surprised if u can tell them that or they'll listen to u.


 For your knowledge there are many universities where there is reservation for their own community. I dont know much about outside mumbai, but in Mumbai SIES college has reservation for South Indians, National College for Sindhis, Somaiya College for Gujjus and many many more. I am against all reservations bro, but u only point finger towards muslim universities why not talk about everyone. Remove reservation from all institutions no SC/ST/OBC/Gujju/Sindhi etc reservations, all admissions strictly on merit. If other Institutions have right to reserve seats for their own community whats wrong if Muslims also have reservations for their own communities???


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Why do u fear so much to drop down ur personal muslim laws for the sake of masses?? I told u before too that all other religions think of muslims as terrorist minded, narrow minded etc because of these laws only.


Its not because of the Laws the mentality has come up because of the media who blame everything on Muslims. 





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> U have Muslim-Hindu riots each year, muslim-Christian riots where christaian are in majority. Media covers jains and buddhists etc in the same meaning as hinduism as they fight on the same side of hinduism and dont have any differences! So u may call that indirectly Muslim-jain, muslim-buddhist war tooo!
> So why Muslims have fights and differences with all religions?? If its not for the personal laws then can u elaborate what is it?? Why is there so much mess wherever muslims coexist with other religions!


There are riots between Hindus-Hindus Muslims-Muslims also, its not about communities but about individuals. Unfortunately with the increase of media we see that even small fight between 4 people is also projected as a Riot and rivalry between communities just to make it a Breaking news...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I agree about the Mumbai Blasts! And I hope such unity is shown in future too! But then again what about Malegaon blasts???? 30 Muslims dead, convict an Let commander! And then what the muslims say there?? I'm sure u must be reading and watching LIVE news too ??
> A Muslim girl said "Whenever some blasts takes place a Muslim is convicted. Now we have blasts here in a Masjid. Now who the culprit?" and pointing the  fingers directly too Hindus even though the culprit nabbed was a Let commander!! Who filled such crap in the mind of that young Muslim girl?? If not that "Small section" of muslim society i.e muslim leaders, then who else??


 Again individual comments, u heard that girl talk but there were many who demanded that the person who did the Mumbai/Malegaon blasts should be hanged in front of the entire nation whether the convict is a muslim or from some other religion. Unfortunately u could not hear or do not want to hear positives from the community...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Then may be u shud tell those muslims that! That it is unislamic to tease Hindu girls, drink , marry hindu girl, voting commonly to elect a government, asking for rights selfishly etc, doing violence etc!


 Wish I could teach such people basics of Islam and keep away from such things. But I should also go and tell the majority community to keep away from such things. If there are black sheeps then its not only in muslims but also in other communities...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Then according to u the whole Pakistan must be UnIslamic as terrosim is their main industry, sex scandals are rising there, use of drugs is also rising??


 Who am I to comment on the entire country? Like Indian muslims there may also be a majority among Pakistanis who keep away from such evil acts. But like I said its the way u look at it....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> If intermixing of sexes is prohibited then u must not be living with ur mother and sisters?? Then it means that in all Muslim families all are either male or female isnt it??


I thought that u will use common sense when I talked about Intermingling of Sexes as I thought it would be to be understood thing. But since u did not understand it this is what I meant:
Intermingling of sexes *(other than ur parents, brothers/sisters, spouse, children and close blood relations) * is prohibited. And the bro the word was "Intermingling" and not "Intermixing", there is lot of difference between the two..... 


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> For the Navratri thing, I cant believe that such an interesting debater I'm talking to, likes to see negetive in every aspect of life! Absurd replies like this clearly reflect the true nature of the debator. And I can see ur nature now! Isnt it Unislamic to think absurdly,ignorantly and pervertly like this??


 I spoke about Navratri but I guess It should been Holi, it was my mistake I quoted the wrong festival. And this is out of personal experience bro. As i have many non-muslim friends what I hear is what I wrote. After every Holi I get to hear, bahot bhang peeya, then we got  completely drunked and had sex with my neighbour even she was drunk. I hear things like usko pataya, uske dabaya, iss baar kisko liya woh virgin thi, etc. Even I find it absurd but that's what is common in Holi as that's what I hear, now dont say I have bad set of friends because they all belong to well educated families but they say yeh sab chalta hai and I should also participate in Holi if I wanted to have fun, but believe me I have never gone...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Wow and u call urself REAL MUSLIM?? Guess the count of number of REAL MUSLIMS is zero now! I didnt wanted to believe it but as @yamaraj says it true then all muslims are fakers and a disgrace to ISLAM. They only know how to see negetive in every aspect of life .


 Sir, what I heard is what I wrote, I have not created a story, I know it may be hurting the way u replied in above quote but as I said even I find it very absurd but unfortunately that's the reality...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> They know its a sin to kill an animal like goat, but still for the sake of their religion they will talk absurd and nonsense like Plants having senses and fight facts. The only thing I guess the Muslims wanna do is blindly follow their religous heads which as u described as "small section" and "road side fools"!


 U still feel its nonsense, I have not given u any religious quotations but only given u scientific facts, its the way look at it. I dont follow things blindly bro, but atleast believe in scientific facts....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I thought I wud gain something by interacting a Muslim like u as I thought u must be broadminded and get to know what Muslims really think. But it seems their minds is full of crap like u said about Navratri! And crap and nonsense is the only thing they can talk about!


 Its difficult to take criticism but facts cannot be denied. I have taken ur criticism and defended in the best possible way. Even I could have said longback that u talk crap and you are narrowminded etc but whats the point? I am broadminded and hence still replying to you and not closed my mind and stopped this conversation after the initial posts itself... And i dont need a certificate from u for my broadmindedness bro....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Do have such happiness in Isamic festivals?? Do girls are allowed to see boys and decide themselves whether he is good to be life partner or not?? Or u again have that burqa system?


 Happiness is not all about singing and dancing as u think. Yes Girls are allowed to decide whom to chose thier life partner but what is prohibited is to mingle around, have an affair or meet in complete privacy in closed rooms when no-one is around as it may lead to adultery...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I supported u in first post and was against the statement that all "Muslims are terrorists". But I do support the statement that "MOST terrorists are Muslims".


 Its because they are Labelled as "Terrorists". What actually is meaning of the "terrorist". It means a person who causes terror. So for a thief, the cop is a terrorist as the cop is terrorising him. The whole meaning of the word "Terrorists" has changed after 9/11. Now even a person who kills is termed as terrorist..


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> In ur first post u gave example mixing wars in same context with terrorism and those examples are older than 20 yrs or so! I agree bush is terrorist number one! But tha fact is most of britishers and americans like the rest of world dont support Bush on IRAQ! Their support for Afghanistan was understandable but not further than that!


Afghanistan is understandable??? Whole country being bombed and innocent people killed just to kill or find one person (Osama), u justify it???? The examples I gave in first post was only because to prove that majority of the killings that took place in the world is where muslims were not involved still everybody has the common thing to say "Most Terrorists are muslims" etc...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I told u to read how we define the ability to sense!! But u took it to research! Neways any further misconception u have or just the FREQUENCY FACTOR?? Is there anything else ur religious heads told u to support the goat issue absurdly and ignorantly??


 I dont need to take help from any religious head to respond to you. Me being a common muslim and u being a common Hindu, I only respond with my viewpoint and my understanding.....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> May be u wud like to read this then to eradicate all ur misconceptions!
> *www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Morality/Biology/Do Animals Feel Pain.htm


  Islam enjoins mercy and compassion for all living creatures. At the same time Islam maintains that Allah has created the earth and its wondrous flora and fauna for the benefit of mankind. It is upto mankind to use every resource in this world judiciously, as a niyamat (Divine blessing) and amanat (trust) from Allah. A Muslim can be a very good Muslim despite being a pure vegetarian. It is not compulsory for a Muslim to have non-vegetarian food.
Some Quotes from Hindu Scriptures which not only allows non-veg food but also makes it compulsory at some places:

In Vishnu Dharmottar Puran book 1 chapter 140 verses 49 & 50 says

* "Those who do not eat meat served in the ceremony of dead (Shraddha), will go to hell (narak)". *

  And Manu Smruti mentions still stronger punishment. In Manu Smruti Chapter 5 verse 35 it says

*“But when a man who is properly engaged in a ritual does not eat meat, after his death he will become a sacrificial animal during twenty-one rebirths"*
This verse says those who don't eat meat will become sacrificial animals in next twenty-one rebirths. It not only says that a person will become an animal but says will become *“sacrificial animal"* meaning others will sacrifice him!!!


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So who founded Islam then if not prophet?? Are sure of this?? If u know islam then u must be knowing who was the first messenger?? It doesnt matter if the religion is oldest, but what matters who founded it and when! May be u can start a new religion today also and say that this religion existed when the earth was in its initial stages!


 Religion is founded by God and if I try explaining the origin of Islam and the first prophet it would probably take pages and still u wont understand.....


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I dont agree with this. Hinduism is the purest as the fresh himalayan water! Ever heard of Hindu militant organizations who may coz this impurity??


 Yes VHP, RSS, SS etc who have no other work but to ignite people and convince them that India is a Hindu Rashtra and all muslims should be thrown out of India.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> But in Islam, terrorism is common, every next day we witness that! How can be ISlam so pure then??


 I mentioned about Labelling above, same answer applies here....
* Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’*
Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> So does Islam has anything like VEDAS and ayurvedic techniques?? Why is it that the world is now actually experimenting with ayrveda and corfirming that it really works! Why is it that Muslims from Islamic nations come to India for cure?? DOesnt the ISlamic world have the cure or any ancient medical system?? And if so why arent they popular?? Why is that Muslims resort to western treatment as the last resort??


 My dear friend Ayurved is not a religion. There are different forms of medicines like Anti-biotic, Ayurvedic, Herbal etc... Not just muslims but from all faiths people prefer to come to India and we should be proud of it as India has one of the best medical doctors and also the cheapest treatment in the world. And person travelling from one country to other for medical treatment does not mean that his/her home country does not have good medical facilities or treatment. Even our prominent indian people like Sachin Tendulkar, Sharad pawar etc go abroad for treatment...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I am sorry if I am offensive or hurting in answering this one...
> But I can answer this by "Why Muslims have their Penis cut after birth"?? Did allah finds any defiency in the orginally born baby?? First u say ur Almighty knows what he is doing, then did he gave persmission to do so?? If he really wanted that? Then why didnt he made Muslims orginally born with cut Penis unlike others?? Do u want to say all are born Hindus but only a little architecture makes them Muslims!


 That's a very bad way of putting things, anways what u have reffered to is called *"Circumcision"*
Some of the health benefits are: (Believe me its only some of the benefits)

� Decrease in physical problems involving a tight foreskin [253].

� Lower incidence of inflammation of the head of the penis [98, 101, 104].

� Reduced urinary tract infections.

� Fewer problems with erections, especially at puberty.

� Decrease in certain sexually transmitted infections (STIs) such as HIV, HPV, chlamydia, syphilis in the male and their partner(s).

� Almost complete elimination of invasive penile cancer.

� Decrease in urological problems generally.
*Improved penile hygiene is perhaps the major reason for circumcision*

For full details *www.circinfo.net/ (Plz note this is not a Islamic site or has anything to do with muslims)
As for the thing as originally born hindu and then architectural changes to make muslim is rubbish. All newborns are born innocent, they have no religion. And circumcision is not to make them muslim but for medical reasons (read the site I gave u above).


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And about Hinduism, thats what I think! Some also say there is indeed one god who has 3 forms in the form of Trinity!
> So please dont get ur notions like that like deficiencies coz if I start talking absurdly like that then there wud no stopping!


 U do talk absurd at times and get offended and lose patience while replying to some points. I guess u are a good debater, but the most important quality of a debater is to have patience and give a chance to others to speak before commenting or coming to conclusions.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> The link u gave .... => *www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/part6.html  ..... only states the similarities! The person "Zakir Naik" must be a scholar and a broadminded Muslim who wud have dared to write the comparison coz in hardcore Islamic socities no one even want to hear a single sour truth or comparison like this that may exist.


 Yes Dr. Zakir Naik is a renowned International Orator and a scholar of Comparative religions. He Quotes from all major religious scriptures and if you would like to read all the similarities between Hinduism and Islam u can visit:
*www.islamawareness.net/Hinduism/ZakirNaik/.


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> The comparison link u gave is based only on the study of one person! But I do not oppose him, coz the twisting factor is always there! Can u tell the same comaprison to ur fellow members of ur community??


 Yes why not a lot of people do listen to his lectures, even I love to listen to him, because he is one person who always back ups what he says with quotations from religious scriptures and proves what he says logically and scientifically. I suggest you to read the similarities link I gave above with patience...


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Neways then according to this modified concept of previous post of urs why dont u eat Elephants,deer,rabbits etc also??
> Also like u said Almighty gave u carnivore teeth and its upto u to use them either for veg or non-veg, then similarly Pigs are omnivore but under under domstication can be made herbivore! Source : *www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~ALRF/giintro.htm !
> So perhaps u can domesticate pigs since birth make them herbivore throughout and eat them! Isnt it?? So stop modifying ur posts now bro!


I have not modified any of my posts after u replied to it. And as I said there are few animals which are allowed to be eaten and rest all are forbidden. And no the prophet didnt say it with his own wish, its all in accordance with the Qur'an which is considered to be directly from God and God allows and forbids to have or not to have things. I have'nt modified any concepts as per u but only made things more clearer simply because If I would have quoted things from Qur'an u would have responded with ur common lines who told u this "Islamic cleric, Imam, etc etc".


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> Sorry bro If I been offensive, forgive me! But I dont like to talk absurd either! All I did is presenting facts! U cant ignore them!


 I do not ignore facts and I expect the same from u bro....!

I in no way want to offend u and I sincerely sincerly apologize, plz plz forgive me if I said something wrong but I always wanted to know or clarify this:
Most Hindus including u say that muslims are terrorists or are agressive etc but believe in Lord Ganesh with their whole heart...
The story and facts I know about Lord Ganesh is this (Correct me if I am wrong anywhere):

Lord Shiva once was outside his house and his wife was taking bath. She made a son from the dirt collected from her body. As she was going to sleep she told this son to guard outside the house and see to it that nobody disturbs her sleep. Sometime later Lord Shiva comes home and this child does not allow Lord Shiva to enter the house saying that her mother is sleeping and she should be disturbed. Lord Shiva gets so angry on this child that he cuts the neck of this child with all his might... (O dear u call muslims as cruel and here ur GOD slashes the neck of an innocent child, how cruel is that????? If he does this cruel thing to an innocent child who happens to be his own son, what he will do to others, man that's so cruel......).

Ok the story continues.... Now the neck goes so far that it could not be brought back (imagine Lord Shiva who is God cannot get back or reverse what he destroyed, he cannot get back the neck of the innocent child who was just hit by the cruelty of the sword of Lord Shiva), so he orders his followers that whichever first animal they find they should cut his neck and bring it to him. (U talk so much about not killing animals and muslims are cruel then how come ur God orders to cut the neck of the first animal they find????). So the followers of Lord Shiva go in search and the First animal they find is Elephant so they cut the neck of the elephant (man dats so cruel) and bring it to Lord Shiva and Lord Shiva puts it on the child's body and then Lord Ganesh is formed which people worship every year by spending Crores of Rupees in making the Idol of Lord Ganesh and then finally polluting the seas with so much of Clay by immersing the idols in the seas...

I want to say this again, I am really really very very Sorry if I am hurting any of ur religious sentiments with story about Lord Ganesh which as per my knowledge is a true story unless u prove me wrong...

Peace!

Thanks for reading and I sincerely apologize if I was offensive or hurting...


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## nix (Sep 27, 2006)

^^whatever you say...hindus are far more tolerant towards other reilgions than muslims...see pakistan-no hindu's there...hindu's are like always in danger...noone supports them there...they're totally alone and in great danger..niether do the pakistani ppl care...


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## dunno (Sep 27, 2006)

grt news! would have been better if the victim was bush!!!


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## Third Eye (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh man very very huge post.

Bin Laden is alive but don't know where he is.His report of death in french newspaper was fake.


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## Yamaraj (Sep 27, 2006)

@imranais
Now that you've started posting about Gods of other religions, how about your
own Prophet marrying a 9 years old girl? He also had numerous wives and kept
many concubines, violating the "rules" of Islam. And don't mention that "Allah"
made an exception for him. It's laughable and ridiculous. How about Ibrahim
sacrificing his own son? How merciful is your "Allah"?

I'm not going to quote and counter every single line of yours, for I don't have
that much time in my hands. Be warned, however, that I can falsify everything
you've said before. As for your "Islam is the oldest religion" remark, I can only
pity your knowledge of history and the size of your brain.

"Hinduism is also believed to be the oldest religion in the world dating back to 1300-1500 B.C." - Wikipedia.

It's funny how a schizophreniac can write a book of ridiculous laws himself, and
claim later that was "delivered" to him by a supreme deity. Unlike the semites,
Hindus do not claim that Vedas were created by any God or anything else. They
are a collection of eternal knowledge.

Despite of what you've written about the worship of multiple deities in Hinduism,
you fail to realize that most of them are only avatars of the supreme Gods.
Also, hindus believe that any and every life is sacred and is equally important
and pious as any other. Hence the worship of (or respect for) animals in this
religion. No such compassion towards animals is found in semitic religions.

You also fail to realize that Islam originated in Arab countries. You, including
millions other Indian muslims were Hindus at some time. Your ancestors were
converted forcefully by the religious fanatics. The same people are responsible
for burning down thousands of libraries full of ancient religious and scientific texts.

Fundamentalist islamists are pure idiots, with no respect for music, literature
and science. Not to mention, there have been many noble muslims who didn't
agree with such barbaric beliefs. Mughal Badshah Akbar himself was such a fan
or music, art and literature.

In the end, I respect those who don't follow with blind faith, and decide for
themselves in stead of relying on a thousand years old text of no credibility.
Once people learn that respect for life is more important than following some
"holy" book, the World will only become better than ever. Develop your own
conscience, and learn to tell right from wrong yourself. I know not many people
are good at this, which is why organized religions continue to flourish and devour.


----------



## king007 (Sep 27, 2006)

Yamaraj said:
			
		

> @imranais
> Now that you've started posting about Gods of other religions, how about your own Prophet marrying a 9 years old girl? He also had numerous wives and kept many concubines, violating the "rules" of Islam. And don't mention that "Allah" made an exception for him. It's laughable and ridiculous. How about Ibrahim sacrificing his own son? How merciful is your "Allah"?


I just wrote about a story which I heard of about Lord Ganesh if I am wrong in that story then plz correct me on that. You have come up with some points about prophet like why he had numberous wives:
*The Prophet's Numerous Marriages *
The Encyclopedia Britannica bears testimony to the fact that; “ As an institution polygamy exists in all parts of the world ”. (Volume 14 pg. 949, 14th Edition). A study of the Bible too shows that revered Prophets (such as David and Solomon) had much more than one wife. Why then is the Prophet Muhammad singled out and taken to task for his marriages and accused of being overcome with his need for sensuous gratification? Let us consider the facts honestly:

   1. Prophet Muhammad spent his youth in exemplary purity marrying Khadijah his employer, fifteen years his senior (who proposed to him), remaining married to her for twenty five years and who bore him all his children, except one. This at a time when marrying multiple women was the norm in Arabia.
   2. The type of women and the condition under which he married them clearly shows that his marriages were motivated by considerations other than sensuous gratifications. Except for ‘Aishah , none of his wives were in their youth and most of them were either widows, former slaves or divorcees. After himself being widowed on the death of Khadijah , the Prophet married Saudah , who was of advanced age. He married Hafsah after her husband was killed in the Battle of Badr . (Both Abu Bakr and Uthman passed over the offer of marrying the widowed Hafsah due to her reportedly bad temper). He married Zainab bint Khuzaimah whose husband was killed in the Battle of Uhud ; Ummi Salmah whose husband died after the Battle of Uhud; Ummi Habibiah (widowed daughter of the then enemy Abu Sufyan ) whose husband died while they were in exile for the sake of their faith in Abyssinia . Maimunah was another widow who proposed to the Prophet while his marriage to the widowed Juwairiyah led to a hundred families of the Bani Mustaliq being liberated through pacification of her tribe by this marriage. He married the highly respected Zainab binti Jahsh , who felt deeply humiliated at being divorced by Zaid in a marriage in which the Prophet played the role of matchmaker. He married Mariah the Copt of Egyptian descent and elevated that former slave girl to the eminent status of “Mother of the Faithful”. All this indicates that the holy Prophet's marriages were dictated by much higher and nobler considerations that personal pleasure or sensual gratification.
   3. The prophet never divorced any of his wives and while married to Khadijah (who died when she was sixty-five and he fifty) there was never a breath of scandal; this at a time when his life was under microscopic scrutiny. How then could a person of such integrity and pure moral character suddenly become one given to sensual pleasure, especially at a time when physical strength and desire had begun to wane.


The historian Dr. Stanley Lane- Poole discusses this subject with great honesty and states; “To say that Muhammad was a voluptuary is false. The simple austerity of his daily life to the very last, his hard mat for sleeping on, his plain food, his self-imposed menial work, point him out as an ascetic rather than a voluptuary” ( The Prophet and Islam , pg 24). The renowned scholar of history, Thomas Carlyle, says in this regard; “Muhammad himself, after all that can be said about him, was not a sensual man. We shall err widely if we consider this man as a common voluptuary, intent mainly on base enjoyments, -nay, on enjoyments of any kind. His household was of the frugalest; his common diet barley bread and water; sometimes for months there was not a fire once lighted on his hearth. They record with just pride that he would mend his own shoes, patch his own cloak. A poor hard-toiling, ill-provided man; careless of what vulgar men toil for. I find something of a veritable hero necessary for that, of itself” . 
*Thus the Prophet married several wives but Qur'an was revealed at a later stage of his Life and since he did not divorce any of his wives he had more than 4 wives whereas Qur'an has upper limit for number of wives to be 4*
He was married to one woman during the prime of his life from age 25 until her death when he was *53* years old. This counters the argument that he was a womanizer.
When Islam started spreading throughout Arabia, Marriage to the Prophet became an honor most women would have been delighted to accept. However, Muhammad didn't marry for pleasure as shown by his selections from available women. 

Islam does not endorse child marriages and the Holy Qur'an (4:5-6) demands meticulous proof of intellectual and physical maturity before entrusting property or the responsibility of marital relationships to young ones. This being the case, the question is asked; how then did the Prophet Muhammad cohabit with the nine-year old ‘Aishah ? 

Answer:In Bukhari, ‘Aishah  is reported to have said; “ I was a young girl (jariyah) when Surah al-Qamar was revealed ” ( Sahih Bukhari, Kitabul-Tafsir ). Two things are significant in this narrative documented in Bukhari . One is the reference by ‘Aishah  to herself as a ( jariyah ) and the revelation of Surah al-Qamar . It is an accepted historical fact that Surah al-Qamar  was revealed eight years before the Hijrah . If ‘Aishah  was a ( jariyah ) which actually means a young girl between the age of six and thirteen (Lane's Arabic English Lexicon) then she could not have been nine years old nine years after the revelation of Surah al-Qamar  when she was supposed to. 

*There are many contradictions to the age of prophets wife Aishah and it cannot be proved conclusively that she was 9 years.*



			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> "Hinduism is also believed to be the oldest religion in the world dating back to 1300-1500 B.C." - Wikipedia.


 Oldest does not mean the Best or the Truest in the same way Newest cannot be the Best or Tuest...


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> It's funny how a schizophreniac can write a book of ridiculous laws himself, and claim later that was "delivered" to him by a supreme deity. Unlike the semites,Hindus do not claim that Vedas were created by any God or anything else. They are a collection of eternal knowledge.


 Qur'an specifies many scientific facts which are discovered just recently by Science. If you apply theory of Probability how can a man make so many predictions 1400 years ago and the discoveries which were made only recently??? *www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/
*www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> Despite of what you've written about the worship of multiple deities in Hinduism, you fail to realize that most of them are only avatars of the supreme Gods.Also, hindus believe that any and every life is sacred and is equally important and pious as any other. Hence the worship of (or respect for) animals in this religion. No such compassion towards animals is found in semitic religions.


 But how can u justify the Lord Ganesh Story???? and existence of thousands of God's???


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> You also fail to realize that Islam originated in Arab countries. You, including millions other Indian muslims were Hindus at some time. Your ancestors were converted forcefully by the religious fanatics. The same people are responsible for burning down thousands of libraries full of ancient religious and scientific texts.


No one is forcibly converted my friend. And just for ur knowledge inspite of so much criticism Islam is the Fastest growing religion in the world and yes nobody is running behind people with sword as u claim to get them converted but people who are open minded accept the truth of Islam and accept it gracefully...


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> In the end, I respect those who don't follow with blind faith, and decide for themselves in stead of relying on a thousand years old text of no credibility. Once people learn that respect for life is more important than following some "holy" book, the World will only become better than ever. Develop your own conscience, and learn to tell right from wrong yourself. I know not many people are good at this, which is why organized religions continue to flourish and devour.


 Even I say the same thing dont follow things blindly, investigate, research and find the Truth and then follow...

EDIT: Forgot to mention and respond to ur point 


			
				Yamaraj said:
			
		

> How about Ibrahim sacrificing his own son? How merciful is your "Allah"?


Ibrahim(pbuh) was ready to sacrifice his own son for Allah. That shows the love and commitments followers have towards Allah. And About Allah's mercy: Allah accepted Ibrahim's faith and his vision to even sacrifice his own loving son and instead blood wasn't shed, but life was made even more valuable with the knowledge of Allah's pleasure in their willingness to comply and Ibrahim's son was not sacrificed. *This event in history gave birth to Eid-ul Adha - Festival of Sacrifice, where Muslims all over the world remember the tough sacrifice Hazrat Ibrahim had to make and was rewarded by Allah by sparing Ismail (Ibrahim's son) and making him an example for us to follow in our lives - when we choose to submit to His will, all ends well.*


----------



## Yamaraj (Sep 27, 2006)

I won't defend the story of Ganesh, since it's only a stupid little story of the
birth of yet another Hindu deity. I'm a Hindu by birth, but have my independent
views. Today, Hinduism (or any other religion) exists as only a shadow of the
original idea of Vedas, Puranas and great thinkers of past times. Corrupt pundits
and other members of the organized version of the regilion are responsible for
the downfall of ideals. People, in general, don't want to get into the real
philisophy of their respective religions. It's too serious and boring for most.

I don't want to get into bashing your prophet either. It'll only result in hatred,
and even more hatred. But I do advise that you also look for information on
other sites or sources that are not pro-Islam in origin or nature. It's obvious that
believers in Islam will omit the bad, and others will stress onto it. The bright
side is that you'll have yourself in the middle ground, being in a situation where
you can look for unbiased information.

Prophet of Doom - *www.prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41003
You'll find "Table of Contents" and chapters at the right side of the page.

All I have to say is, violence or hatred in the name of a god or religion is as
bad as a psychopath killing dozens of people only because he heard voices in
his head asking to eliminate those "unworthy of living". If there is a god indeed,
then he/she surely prefers love and unity among the living, rather than killing
and hating each other.

Frankly speaking, if Qur'an dictates killing of the unbelievers as the choice of
Allah and justifies so, then neither are respecable in my opinion. But if some
believers are misquoting the text purposely, for political gains, then they should
be properly dealt with.


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## kumarmohit (Sep 27, 2006)

Guys PUHLEEZ Cut the fight Whatever teaches you to kill is not god or religion its sheer lunacy So if any terrorist or whatever asks you to kill people its bad and every person should use his brains before.

By Non Believers Quran means the sins in the eyes of Allah not non muslims similarly and Imarnais there are hunreds of Deities in Hinduism not Hundreds of Gods Even in Hinduism there is only only 1 god the ParamBrahm. I understand that you have read some Hindu scriptures coz u quote Vishnu Purana, it seems u only gave it a fleeting look other wise u wud never have said Hundreds of Gods Please try to understand the difference between a deity and the God. As for the Ganesha's story its as unbelievable as is the rebirth of Christ or that The Prophet of Islam was a womanizer


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## mediator (Sep 27, 2006)

Nice debate is getting interesting!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> That's one off incidents which is blown out of proportion by the media. And this may have happened in some village where mostly we have uneducated people who neither have curricular education nor Islamic Education.


So atleast u believe now it happens! And how many educated people do u think are in India or in Indian Islamic World?? And how do u define Islamic education?? 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> There are definitely Laws and rules but the Question is not everybody follows it. And people who follow the rules and laws are never highlighted but people like MF Hussain are highlighted and made to appear that all muslims are like this.


Well why arent they highlighted?? Are there any REAL muslims who follow rules and islam without talking crap? Several Muslims I mentioned, but U made them all UnIslamic. Then who is there to highlight??  Neways I do agree blacksheep are always there.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> That's the Biggest sin in Islam i.e associating partners to Allah. Islam strictly believes in one God and people selling these pictures are far away from Islam as they fail to follow the first basic pillar of Islam i.e of Worshipping only one God.


U again made them UnIslamic?? Any person or organization I refer, u make them UnIslamic! U agree Muslims who sell such stuff are UnIslamic but arent the watcher Muslims UnIslamic who see such things without opposing them coz its against their almighty?? Then accoringly the whole are of Jama Masjid must be UnIslamic? Also Imam Bukari must be UnIslamic too then as he never criticised such thing! Dont u think so?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> The prominent names u have quoted have nothing to do with religion. These personalities have nothing to do with religion. As I said there is difference between belonging to a religion bec ur birth certificate indicates that religion and practicing the religion.


U made the celebs UnIslamic too now?? Dude how many people will u make UnIslamic??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> First off all Pope should not have spoken such a thing, but yes he was forgived after he sincerely apologised.


Thats what u think! The anger amongst Muslims is still there in some Muslim dominated parts of India, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan etc! Will u call all these Muslims Unislamic now coz they are unforgiving??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I agree with u to a certain extent. Our politicians do make a mockery of Secularism and democracy...


Then u must also be agreeing MUSLIM VOTE is a rubbish concept?? Then why dont u tell the member of ur community that? If u say ur a true Indian then its the duty of urs to educate the uneducated and ignorant people of ur community! Dont u think so?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Yes Google is my best online friend but not to prove the above point bro...


I wasnt expecting a reply on this one. 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Hindus never supported such thing? Think again. Yes u can partly blame it on Jinnah also....


Thats right majority of hindus never supported such things! If some of them did others educated them! Think again! Think using ur brains! If Hindus really had supported such thing then u might not be having Muslims living in India and just like Pakistan is a Muslim state, India wud have been a Hindu state. Do u see Hindu-Muslim, Hindu-Christian riots in Pakistan? Why India? 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Bukhari and other Imams were against UCC and not against a National movement of Population control bro....


Why he was against UCC? Cant Muslims live without such laws?? Why do they blindly follow them like I told again n again? And as for national movt of population control, its not I who said that. Do u think I'm talking stories absurdly? Well let me tell u he was questioned on the news channel some few months ago, I guess 3-4 months ago. ANd all he told is "Allah ne insaan ko bacche paida karney ki taakat di hai.....to uspe law kaisa?" And many many similar lines like these!! If thats not against Population control then what is it?? May be u shud tell him what u think then!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I have seen many Hindu families having more than 2 kids. Most families of my friends and people around me have 3 or more children.


Yea I may agree on this one. Its uneducation and ignorance after all! But if see the statistics anywhere, u'll see the the numbers are higher for Muslims than Hindus. And if u see current statistics most hindu families dont have kids more than 2 where the Muslims are like competing to produce kids! They still have/produce babies not less than 3!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Its the way u look at it, there are many muslim families who have only 1 or 2 kids and many hindu families who have more than 3. As I said dont blame it on one particular commuinity. Muslims are in minority and if there is a Population Explosion in India u cannot say that the Majority community do not contribute to the Population Explosion and only our minority community is the root cause for population explosion...


Same as above. Again I say its not me who is saying this but the statistics! See any statistics and decide urself on which community is contributing more to population explosion!


			
				imranais said:
			
		

> For your knowledge there are many universities where there is reservation for their own community. I dont know much about outside mumbai, but in Mumbai SIES college has reservation for South Indians, National College for Sindhis, Somaiya College for Gujjus and many many more. I am against all reservations bro, but u only point finger towards muslim universities why not talk about everyone. Remove reservation from all institutions no SC/ST/OBC/Gujju/Sindhi etc reservations, all admissions strictly on merit. If other Institutions have right to reserve seats for their own community whats wrong if Muslims also have reservations for their own communities???


My friend again I tell u to correct ur classification problem! Ur talking absurd again n again. I'm not loosing my cool but absurd talks like this surely can piss off anbody. 

We are dealing with religion communalism here and not regionalism! U may google to find the difference between the two as ur good in googling!
To enlighten u myself, South INdians,Singhis,Gujjus etc are not any religion! Got it??  They are associated with regions. And yes reservations shud be abolished!

So why are u deviating the subject?? Yeah I'm pointing the fingers on MUSLIM universities because u asked for it! And now I enlightened u about it too, u are trying to talk absurd again? and deviate the topic now?? Now I can only expect u to deviate the subject further and talk absurd.

So why dont u tell the heads of AMU and JAMIA to stop Muslim reservations and that its rubbish and Muslims dont need it?? Why dont muslims oppose it as well??





			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Its not because of the Laws the mentality has come up because of the media who blame everything on Muslims.


Hey cool down! U cannot blame everything on media! Its correct "Most Terrorsts are Muslims during the present era but Media never said "All Muslims are terrorists". Some few people might have said that. But Media never said that! What do wanna prove by such absurd remarks again? That Media is biased? Dont u know how many Muslims are there in Media alone!
Just because most Muslims are creating violence because of their personal laws or whateva u call them, u wanna blame it on media as to why is it potryaing most terrorist as muslims?? What else u wanna blame media for?? If a terrorist convicted is a Muslim then what can u do?? Fight facts??

Its not just in India, but wherever Muslims exist with other religion communal tensions take place because of these Muslims Laws! So why dont Muslim drop down their personal laws for the sake of masses??




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> There are riots between Hindus-Hindus Muslims-Muslims also, its not about communities but about individuals. Unfortunately with the increase of media we see that even small fight between 4 people is also projected as a Riot and rivalry between communities just to make it a Breaking news...


Ok, I have heard of riots between Muslim-Muslim, but Hindu-Hindu?? Thats ridiculous! Ever heard of riots between 2 Hindu organizations?? Ever heard of war between 2 Hindu nations?? But u have Iraq-Iran war, fight between Northern Alliance and Taliban, cold war between Balochistan and Pakistan, partition of Pakistan to Pakistan and Afghanistan etc. So stop making absurd replies like fights between hIndu Groups. There can never be fight between 2 tolerant groups!

Neways if there are fights between 4 ppl of diferent religions then ofcors its a news! And I praise media for preventing such a small spark transforming into a flame! I hope u know what I mean! So stop blaming media to prove ur absurd point!

So why do have Riots between Muslim-all other religions? And now u added Muslim-Muslim riots too!! So why dont they drop down their sick laws for the sake of the masses?



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Again individual comments, u heard that girl talk but there were many who demanded that the person who did the Mumbai/Malegaon blasts should be hanged in front of the entire nation whether the convict is a muslim or from some other religion. Unfortunately u could not hear or do not want to hear positives from the community...


Again! I told u I praise Mulsims for support during Mumbai blasts! But u  didn't reply to my point! Who filled the crap in the mind of that young Muslim girl???? And all the people of Malegaon?? If not that "Small section" of muslim society which u described as "road side fools" i.e muslim leaders, then who else??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Wish I could teach such people basics of Islam and keep away from such things. But I should also go and tell the majority community to keep away from such things. If there are black sheeps then its not only in muslims but also in other communities...


Why do u wish? Why dont u debate with ur Muslim friends on such topic or debate with ur elders when u visit a Mosque?? Doesnt Quran says it is better to take action instead of wishing?? U r being UnIslamic by wishing for which u can take action simply!

And about the majority community. I think I told u about that. It doesnt have such absurd laws! If a person drinks he is only defaming his family. We are not bound by any pathetic laws! We live our life fully, we sing freely, we dance freely, we dont tease a girl, we dont drink, we dont ask for rights selfishly! Ever heard of unrealistic concept as Hindu reservation?? If u did then it wud be hilarous! 

But as u said blacksheep are in every society. Drinking,Girl teasing is every where. If u go in hardcore Muslim societies then U'll find teasing and drinking everywhere! Just because u think Islam prohibits such things doesnt mean Muslims will stop it! If a mother tells her teenager child not to smoke, then it isn't necessary that he will not smoke!

So in ur concepts and the absurd teachings of ur religious lords which u blindly follow, whole Pakistan is UnIslamic as terrosim is their main industry, sex scandals are rising there, use of drugs is also rising. Isnt it??

May be u shud discuss that too with ur community members and have full length debate without any violence! I wud be surprised if there wont be any violence on this topic!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I thought that u will use common sense when I talked about Intermingling of Sexes as I thought it would be to be understood thing. But since u did not understand it this is what I meant:
> Intermingling of sexes (other than ur parents, brothers/sisters, spouse, children and close blood relations) is prohibited. And the bro the word was "Intermingling" and not "Intermixing", there is lot of difference between the two.....


Yeah right, thanx for correction! But u shud also get a clear cut difference between war-terrorism, religion-region and all other categories I pointed like plants and animals!
Neways if intermingling is prohibited then how do Muslims socialise?? Do they even celebrate Rakhi properly then with the concept of "Muh boli Bahan or Bhai"?? Cant Muslim Girls and boys even play a simple games of chess or cards together?? How pathetic a life can get than this??

I dunno about u, as from ur Navratri concept I understood ur mentality. May be U muslims think about sex all the time in front of Non family girls and thats why allah prohibited u guys from intermingling coz may be he knew about Muslim mentality. But its not the same case with Hindus! Yea blacksheep factor is always there!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I spoke about Navratri but I guess It should been Holi, it was my mistake I quoted the wrong festival. And this is out of personal experience bro. As i have many non-muslim friends what I hear is what I wrote. After every Holi I get to hear, bahot bhang peeya, then we got completely drunked and had sex with my neighbour even she was drunk. I hear things like usko pataya, uske dabaya, iss baar kisko liya woh virgin thi, etc. Even I find it absurd but that's what is common in Holi as that's what I hear, now dont say I have bad set of friends because they all belong to well educated families but they say yeh sab chalta hai and I should also participate in Holi if I wanted to have fun, but believe me I have never gone..


Yea u spoke about Navratri absurdly,ignorantly and pervertly! And now when I proved u wrong u wanna take it and deviate it to Holi?? U cud have thanked me for correcting u, but I guess the only point u wanna prove is intermingling of sexes and associate Hinduism with sex. Dont u?? Bro if start thinking absurdly and pervertly like that then I promise u I can surely link Islam with Sex and u'll be disgusted with ur religion! BUt I dont wanna anger anyone here. So may be u shudnt do tha same!

Neways Why did u quoted the wrong festival?? Isnt it unislamic to talk pervertly,absurdly like that about other religions?? Neways what else mistakes do u commit in life ever thought about that??

Good! Atleast u have non-muslim friends too! But now u confirmed to me that Muslims are easily motivatable, can believe any crap they listen to and can follow any one! Anyways isnt it unislamic to listen to such crap?? What was ur reaction after listening to such crap? What did u say ki "Aisa bi hota hai?"
And as a male urself dont u even know of such a simple thing i.e Most males lie about their virginity and what masti they did! It wud be hilarious if u disagree on such simple thing! Today if I start talking absurdly and say crap will u believe that too?? Well I shudnt ask that, coz u have confirmed how much u can follow others, listen to unlimited amount of crap from others and even believe it!

Anyways, Like I enlightened u about Navratri then let me enlighten u about Holi too! Holi is also played from a 3 yr old girl to 70 yr old man. Everybody enjoys properly unlike Muslims! Nobody even dares to say something pervert or think like that! There are no interminglings but broadminded and reliable friendships. It is a festival of fun and happiness.
But I guess to the Muslim world the defintion of fun and happiness is only associated with sex and terrorism! Its no wonder all other religions hate MOST Muslims!
And may be u shud take part in Holi without thinking pervertly. But I guess ur bound by rules and arent allowed to experience real and small pleasures of life!

SO what next....Navratri, then HOLI now which other hindu festival are u thinking to drag here??? Neways I wont be surprised if u do so as u have confirmed ur true nature and that there are no REAL muslims in ISLAM left who may actually embrace ISLAM rather than embarass ISLAM!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Sir, what I heard is what I wrote, I have not created a story, I know it may be hurting the way u replied in above quote but as I said even I find it very absurd but unfortunately that's the reality...


NO dude I wasnt pissed off because of ur ignorance but by ur absurdity and how much u can follow others! I told I dont expect the opponent to talk absurd either. I told u that just because of this! COz it really pisses me off, and when that happens and I start to talk the opponent starts making personal comments on me and quits the debate in between when I talk and enlighten him about his stupidity! 

Neways I regained my cool back, coz I'm in full knowledge of ur real pervert,ignorant nature now! And I know how much u can follow other and accept the craps instead of facts!
If u found it absurd then why did u quote it here?? We are quoting only the facts not debating on craps!!! 






			
				imranais said:
			
		

> U still feel its nonsense, I have not given u any religious quotations but only given u scientific facts, its the way look at it. I dont follow things blindly bro, but atleast believe in scientific facts....


GUess u didnt read the link I gave u or u wont be talking the same again n again and absurdly! U given me Scientific facts?? The only thing u said is the FREQUENCY FACTOR for which its a misconception. Shud I quote the points specially for u now?? And u say I was loosing cool? Neways let me do ur homework then. Cant believ u cant even do ur homework!

*www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Morality/Biology/Do Animals Feel Pain.htm

1. Misconception

```
Some Muslims have been misled by Internet discussions indicating that plants feel pain. This argument is used by those who wish to justify their meat consumption by claiming that because both plants and animals feel pain, there is no ethical or religious difference between killing plants for food and killing animals for food.
```

2. Ur theory!

```
Supporters of this theory also claim that plants feel pain and that one farmer used a device to "scientifically" catch the sounds of plants "crying out" and "screaming" in pain. They state that our limited range of hearing cannot pick up the "screams" of plants but that machines can.
```

3. The fact

```
The truth is that plants, when stressed, release a chemical called ethylene. This chemical indicates that the plant needs to increase cell growth or take other measures against the perceived stressor. Scientists measured levels of ethylene released from stressed plants by "listening" to them using lasers until a certain frequency was measured.

While this research shows that plants might have a stress-avoidance response, it is quite a stretch to refer to this as "pain." It is even more erroneous to equate this response with the pain suffered by animals and human beings. Plants lack nerve endings, brains, hormones, and other structures that would allow them to experience pain. They also lack the ability to move away from sources of stress, an evolutionary trait linked with the ability to feel pain.

Even those who argue that plants feel pain and suffer should support a vegetarian diet because the number of plants that must be fed to an animal to produce enough meat for one human is greater than the number of plants required to feed that same human if he or she ate the plants directly. Meat-eaters are responsible for "killing" 10 times more plants than vegetarians, and they also kill and cause suffering to animals.
```

4. Especialy for ignorant Muslim like u

```
The argument that plants feel pain and suffer and that killing them is as bad as killing animals is weak and illogical. Those who use this argument to justify their continued consumption of meat should attempt to approach the debate in a more logical, scientific manner. Such claims have fooled many well-intentioned Muslims into perpetuating these falsehoods on the Internet. This is harmful to our Ummah, as it makes us appear ignorant and ill informed. We ask that all Muslims who have put forward such unfounded claims remove these claims from their Web sites and other public forums and cease spreading these fictitious claims at conferences and debates.
```

From this last para, it seems the writer is himslef is a Muslim coz he says "our Ummah"!

So still wanna boast about ur ignorance and absurdity?? I told U shudnt talk about the concepts u r ignorant on! Coz then u bring absurd points to support ur absurd theory, talk nonsense ,fight facts and ur real nature reflects then! 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Its difficult to take criticism but facts cannot be denied. I have taken ur criticism and defended in the best possible way. Even I could have said longback that u talk crap and you are narrowminded etc but whats the point? I am broadminded and hence still replying to you and not closed my mind and stopped this conversation after the initial posts itself... And i dont need a certificate from u for my broadmindedness bro....


Yeah facts cannot be denied. Agreed bro. But CRAP can be denied and made fun off! So I urge u to stop talking crap coz as that Muslim writer says others will laugh on u in future too and make fun of ur ignorance! See did I ever talk about Sharia?? I even accepted the definition of Intermingling and showed how Blindly Muslims can follow their religion! Why cant u accept the facts instead of craps??? Why do u follow others so blindly??

And as for me u shud quote me if I talk crap, atleast u'll show me my negetivity to improve me! From the very first post u only praised me. I expected others to reply against me. But I guess I was wrong!
So quote me anywhere If I talk crap! But if its a fact I'm talking about then u have no right to say its a crap! 

For ur broadmindedness.... I'm not so sure that ur broadminded after such an interacting debate! I already proved how much broadminded u r in the above posts! But I appreciate that ur still debating here and radiating ur pervertness,ignorance and absurdness! A real gentlemen accepts that he is talking crap or have some miscoception instead of fighting facts!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> And i dont need a certificate from u for my broadmindedness bro....


I'm not a Muslim leader bro who will give u a certificate for ur broadmindedness and u'll blindly accept that! But I'm just alerting u about ur Narrow Mindedness,pervertness,absurdity and ignorance as a friend. Its upto u to listen to ur friend (who shows u ur negetivity to improve u) or u may blindly follow ur Religious leaders and pathetic laws!! The decision is urs, only u can help urself.



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Happiness is not all about singing and dancing as u think. Yes Girls are allowed to decide whom to chose thier life partner but what is prohibited is to mingle around, have an affair or meet in complete privacy in closed rooms when no-one is around as it may lead to adultery..


Again u started talking crap. Closed rooms or whateva u just said happens every where even in Pakistan. Blacksheep fact remember?? Want some Muslim scandal videos now?? I'm sure u must be having a lotta them as u urself showed how much UnIslamic,pervert u r!
Neways I dont have any scandal videos so forget about the asking scandals from a particular community!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> ts because they are Labelled as "Terrorists". What actually is meaning of the "terrorist". It means a person who causes terror


InCorrect, why dont u quote the complete definition! Shud I do ur homework again?? Google and get enlightened urself instead of me enlightening u again n again on simple things! 
From this defintion of urs then ur mother must be a terrorist too coz she scolds u for every wrong u do! Dont u think so?? Why do u keep on talking absurd yet again n again!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> So for a thief, the cop is a terrorist as the cop is terrorising him. The whole meaning of the word "Terrorists" has changed after 9/11. Now even a person who kills is termed as terrorist..


Man u talk just like Arjun Singh now, like a true CPM/LEFTIST head! Are u making me laugh on u now?? You may put this statement of urs at JOKES2000.com. I can show u ur negetivity but then this is ridiculous! It only adds to ur nature and ur image u have formed here in the minds of everyone now. Who said such things to u?? Ur religious heads?? If u dont want to accept the facts just say staight forward! In todays era "Most Terrorist are MUSlims". On my concept I state Bush is terrorist No.1 and then say "Most Terrorists are Muslims". But just coz first one in accordance to u, u praise me for that, and coz other one is not in accordance to u, u argue that?? Why such partiality?? 




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Afghanistan is understandable??? Whole country being bombed and innocent people killed just to kill or find one person (Osama), u justify it???? The examples I gave in first post was only because to prove that majority of the killings that took place in the world is where muslims were not involved still everybody has the common thing to say "Most Terrorists are muslims" etc...


YEs, I told u in first post alone that its the civilians who suffer both in wars and terrorism! Civilians cannot escape if there was a battle between US backed Northern Alliance and Muslim extremists i.e Taliban! I'm not justifying anything, but I pity the civilians who are the sufferers at the end in either war and terrorism! What can u do if the civilians there are Muslims in Majority? 
*Will u differentiate the civilian casuality on basis of religion now??*
If u wanna differentiate then u must differentiate the casualities that are killed in KAshmir too! U shud know how many Hindus are being killed there by the hands of terrorists each year! So stop talking absurd again and stop differentiating the casualities on the basis of religion!

If I support OSama operation in afghanistan, I equally condemn Iraq operation! And in afghanistan its not the US soldiers who operated alone, the major batle/war was between Northern Alliance and Taliban. Both Muslim groups!!!!

So u see in terrorism u can blame someone, but in a war u cant blame anyone! If India and Pakistan have Kashmir dispute and goto war even after extreme round table meetings, then u cant blame anyone! But then terrorism, i hope u are aware of it. All India is doing is talking peace and what Pakistan is doing => terrorism and biting us like mosquitoes!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I dont need to take help from any religious head to respond to you. Me being a common muslim and u being a common Hindu, I only respond with my viewpoint and my understanding.....


May be, but I dont think u have a proper understanding and clear view points then! U argued with absurdity that Plants cry and have frequency for those cries, but u didnt know what that frequency actually is! If this isnt improper understanding then what is it?? 
To enlighten u about ur ignorance as a friend, u only have that much understanding which u can use to argue the subjects like meat consumption etc! But if u had full understanding, then u wud have me by ur side  agreeing to most of ur points! So its never too late......I dont want the world to laugh on my friend as that Muslim writer says! Remove ur ignorance, pervertness and absurdness and stop folowing others for god sake!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Islam enjoins mercy and compassion for all living creatures. At the same time Islam maintains that Allah has created the earth and its wondrous flora and fauna for the benefit of mankind. It is upto mankind to use every resource in this world judiciously, as a niyamat (Divine blessing) and amanat (trust) from Allah. A Muslim can be a very good Muslim despite being a pure vegetarian. It is not compulsory for a Muslim to have non-vegetarian food.
> Some Quotes from Hindu Scriptures which not only allows non-veg food but also makes it compulsory at some places:


Please tell me, First u say goat is killed ( in previous posts )and its flesh is partitioned given to family members and some donated! First u say the flesh doesnt go waste and all muslims get to eat the goat flesh and u say its in accordance with ISlam to eat flesh!
Now why are u trying to contradict urself?? And now u say its not compulsory for muslims to be Non-Vegetarian?? Arent they Unislamic then by not eating that flesh of Goat?? Then its means the only Muslims who are Islamic must the Non-Vegetarians who eat the flesh of goat. Isnt it?? 
And then u say Islam has mercy and compassion whateva! How many contradiction will u bring here?? Then the Non-Vegetarians who I thought as Islamic must also really be UnIslamic coz they have no mercy for goats! Isnt it?? Then who who the heck is ISLAMIC??

So many contradictions.....Are u sure u dont blindly follow ur religious heads and arent confused about the teachings of ISLAM??  



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> In Vishnu Dharmottar Puran book 1 chapter 140 verses 49 & 50 says
> 
> "Those who do not eat meat served in the ceremony of dead (Shraddha), will go to hell (narak)".
> 
> ...


CAn u link the source please if its true?? I think ur posting crap now! And even its true then I dont follow such teachings! I told u that in ur definition I'm not religious at all. I dont follow any teachings and anybody unless there's is any piece of WISDOM in it or if according to me its OK!

Neways I never heard of such crap! I'll be helpful to u if u can link the source of it from some Non-Muslim sites !!! Coz u have confirmed here that only thing Muslims can do is talk crap absurdly,pervertly and ignorantly and can follow anyone,anywhere!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Religion is founded by God and if I try explaining the origin of Islam and the first prophet it would probably take pages and still u wont understand.....


If its founded by GOD then may be u shud know how ur ALLAH looks like. Do u even have a photograph or some painting of him? Was he shy by not showing his face to MUSLIMS?? DID he say somehing like I have founded the ISLAM at last and ur doomed to follow it?? If he didnt show u his face then how come u blindly followed him?? So dont make everyone laugh now that religion is founded by GOD! 
Its a common Rahim Doha I think which says "BAde badayi na karein bade na bole bol, rahiman hira kaj hit, laak taka mo mol"! I hope u know its meaning!! So dont talk absurd again!
And about the first prophet, may be u can tell the names atleast!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Yes VHP, RSS, SS etc who have no other work but to ignite people and convince them that India is a Hindu Rashtra and all muslims should be thrown out of India.


They are not against Muslims if u watch news properly! They are only against Muslim laws and all the partiality due to Muslims like resrvation and Muslim quota!
And do u even know what "Militant Organization" is that u so happily said "YEs,VHP,RSS,SS etc" ?? Have they ever murdered people?? If they had really murdered people, if they were really militant organizations them I'm sure that India wud be purely a Hindu Rashtra, no doubt! SO brush up the definition of Militant organization first before answering ignorantly and absurdly!  



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I mentioned about Labelling above, same answer applies here....
> Different labels given to the same individual for the same action, i.e. ‘terrorist’ and ‘patriot’
> Before India achieved independence from British rule, some freedom fighters of India who did not subscribe to non-violence were labeled as terrorists by the British government. The same individuals have been lauded by Indians for the same activities and hailed as ‘patriots’. Thus two different labels have been given to the same people for the same set of actions. One is calling him a terrorist while the other is calling him a patriot. Those who believed that Britain had a right to rule over India called these people terrorists, while those who were of the view that Britain had no right to rule India called them patriots and freedom fighters.


So being a proud Indian as u say, what do think Pakistanis are?? Terroists to India or patriots?? And explain if u'll support them !Remember they also killed 30 Muslims in Malegaon!
Neways a freedom fighter doesnt tourtures his own people which is different in case of Pakistan who keep on torturing the people in PoK! If ur a pakistani then stop arguing coz Pakistan doesnt even have freedom of speech and all media is controlled by Musharaf. So forget about getting reliable news in Pakistan!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> My dear friend Ayurved is not a religion. There are different forms of medicines like Anti-biotic, Ayurvedic, Herbal etc... Not just muslims but from all faiths people prefer to come to India and we should be proud of it as India has one of the best medical doctors and also the cheapest treatment in the world. And person travelling from one country to other for medical treatment does not mean that his/her home country does not have good medical facilities or treatment. Even our prominent indian people like Sachin Tendulkar, Sharad pawar etc go abroad for treatment...


Ofcors ayruveda is not a religion. When did I even said so?? Dont get ur notions like that dude! But its an integral part of Hinduism! Do u have such Integral part in ISlam that u can boast about. If so why isnt it popular?? And people like Sharad pawar etc i actually pity them for going abroad. On one hand enlightened foreigners are coming here to experience  the magic of ayurveda,yoga and on other hand these people go abroad to defame us! So I really pity them!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> That's a very bad way of putting things, anways what u have reffered to is called "Circumcision"
> Some of the health benefits are: (Believe me its only some of the benefits)
> 
> � Decrease in physical problems involving a tight foreskin [253].
> ...


Why?? Do they have some deficiencies that they are met with such tortures?? Neways all the people in world irrelevant of being cut penis or natural penis have same average life span. SO do think such tortures really boost ur body medical conditions??  
As u said "ALLah wants u to have simplicity and live in accordance to nature" then why do Muslims cut their penis after birth?? DOnt they want to follow teachings of Islam?? Dont they wanna live naturally?? I guess no one is REAL MUSLIM!! 
And yes all are born innocents and all wish for happiness and music,dance in their life, but its only the blind followings that make u ignorant and makes u cut ur penis!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> U do talk absurd at times and get offended and lose patience while replying to some points. I guess u are a good debater, but the most important quality of a debater is to have patience and give a chance to others to speak before commenting or coming to conclusions.


It all right! I'm cool again coz I know ur real nature now! Its easy to interact with u know!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Yes why not a lot of people do listen to his lectures, even I love to listen to him, because he is one person who always back ups what he says with quotations from religious scriptures and proves what he says logically and scientifically. I suggest you to read the similarities link I gave above with patience...


I duno why u ask such thing, but I already read it! BUt there also the avatars have been compared to messengers absurdly! I hope u know the difference between an avatar and a messenger! But I think its u who didnt even bothered to  read the link I gave u about plants and misconceptions that Mulims have, Coz thats why u talked ignorantly and absurdly again!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I have not modified any of my posts after u replied to it. And as I said there are few animals which are allowed to be eaten and rest all are forbidden. And no the prophet didnt say it with his own wish, its all in accordance with the Qur'an which is considered to be directly from God and God allows and forbids to have or not to have things. I have'nt modified any concepts as per u but only made things more clearer simply because If I would have quoted things from Qur'an u would have responded with ur common lines who told u this "Islamic cleric, Imam, etc etc".


And u blindly follow that teaching?? And what proof u have prophet didnt say that himself?? What proof u have he actually saw allah?? Why only he saw allah or whateva?? Did he tell u how his voice or face looked like??  Even if ur father says something, do u believe it and do it instantly?? Dont u even think whether its right or wrong?? What if ur father is a drug addict?? Wont u question him??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I do not ignore facts and I expect the same from u bro....!



I dont think so! Instead I think u like to fight facts (as observed from such an interacting debate), follow everyone blindly and think pervertly,absurdy and ignorantly which I proved above! 
As for me I always agree with the fact and wherever I'm wrong. See I agreed with the intermingling definition and showed how pervert/ignorant u r!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I in no way want to offend u and I sincerely sincerly apologize, plz plz forgive me if I said something wrong but I always wanted to know or clarify this:
> Most Hindus including u say that muslims are terrorists or are agressive etc but believe in Lord Ganesh with their whole heart...
> The story and facts I know about Lord Ganesh is this (Correct me if I am wrong anywhere):
> 
> ...


Tell me what do u wanna prove by this?? U dont get it fast do u? I told u I only believe in GITA,VEDAS,Mahabharat and Ramayan! I told u HInduism is oldest. And hence number of twists are there! I dont believe any of the stories involving the trinity like u said! If u watch the star news etc then u may find that these stupid serials makers are today making fake stories tooo! So forget it if u are even associating the word terrorism with hinduism! Its a laughable concept! No one is more tolerant than Hindus!

Neways, Just one question. Do u have any wise friend in ur company,family or religion who told u any simple truth in ur life and enlightened u seriously by giving complete knowledge like on plants?? I think they all wanted the world to laugh on u by filling crap in u r mind so that u can radiate ignorance,absurdness and pervertness with such confidence !



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I want to say this again, I am really really very very Sorry if I am hurting any of ur religious sentiments with story about Lord Ganesh which as per my knowledge is a true story unless u prove me wrong...


If u wanna be sorry, then u must be sorry for urself! I as a Hindu dont believe such stories and u being a Muslim i.e non-hindu believe such stories?? Its no wonder u can follow anyone and believe anything ! 
First its a well fact that most terrorist are muslims but now U confirmed  that remaining Muslims are like u who think absurdly,pervertly and ignorantly. Is there any REAL MUSLIM?? or all muslims are fakers?? ! U dont even know well about ur religion how will u know about Hinduism??
Got some more stories to tell??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Thus the Prophet married several wives but Qur'an was revealed at a later stage of his Life and since he did not divorce any of his wives he had more than 4 wives whereas Qur'an has upper limit for number of wives to be 4


Now there's an upper limit toooooo like in mathematics?? So hilarious! How many jokes are there in quran?? Is it a joke book filled with jokes and contradictions??
Why doesnt it states that a girl is allowed to marry 4 males?? First u say there is no discrimination against Muslim girls, then whats this?? WHy is so much contradiction in Islam?? WHy arent the girls treated equally?? Why arent they allowed to marry 4 males??

Waiting for ur reply anxiously! I wanna learn more about women's unequal treatment, contradictions,tortures and jokes in Quran and Islamic teachings and all the pathetic rules and laws u r bound to follow and all the crap muslims can believe blindly!

Time for last line!
Thanks for reading and I sincerely apologize if I was offensive or hurting...


----------



## king007 (Sep 28, 2006)

@Mediator: I am no more Quoting u line by Line simply because:

> Uptil Now I thought u were discussing things in an open manner, have an open mind and ready for a dialogue. But you are exactly the opposite of it i.e a Uneducated Roadside Fool who has a close mind and who only knows to Insult as he cannot prove himself right..The only reason I didn't criticise or use words like pervert, cheap uptil now for u is because I wanted to have a descent and healthy discussion and also because if I used the same words as u did there wont be any difference between u and me.

> I responded to all the INSULTS u made against Allah/Prophet/Islam without Insulting ur religion or Gods as I have a high tolerance level and patience and also respect for individuals of all faiths.

> Whatever I quoted u dismissed what u disliked and then went on Insulting Islam. I was not here to preach Islam but only to defend or clear misconceptions.

> After taking too much of insults I just gave u one example out of so many of ur God's and you very easily sidelined from being a Hindu and say this:



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> "I as a Hindu dont believe such stories and u being a Muslim i.e non-hindu believe such stories?? Its no wonder u can follow anyone and believe any crap!"


 What should I understand from this? Everytime I showed a negative side u say its CRAP. Everything about Islam is Crap and everything about Hinduism is correct so long as u like it....?????

> In all ur posts u have told me that I should goto my religious heads and community and teach them this or that i.e what my friend mediator feel is correct. I ask you the same thing why dont u goto ur religous heads and Hindu community and tell them that Lord Ganesh story is crap and stop wasting crores of Rupees in making huge Idols of Ganesh and then finally immersing the huge Idols into the sea not only wasting Crores of Rupees but more importantly polluting the entire sea with so much of Clay every year???? 

This is the first time I am asking you to goto ur community to stop all this as you urself for the first time admitted and termed it as *CRAP*.

> U went on giving stupid examples of people selling photos and then saying I term them as Unislamic and they are not REAL muslims. I never termed them as UnIslmaic but what activities they do which u quoted as unislamic.

> You cannot even understand what Circumcision means and why its done. Maybe closed mind is not even open for Medical or scientific education, forget about religious enlightenment. 



			
				mediator said:
			
		

> CAn u link the source please if its true?? I think ur posting crap now! And even its true then I dont follow such teachings! I told u that in ur definition I'm not religious at all. I dont follow any teachings and anybody unless there's is any piece of WISDOM in it or if according to me its OK!


What teachings do u follow then, when i give quotations from ur religious scriptures u say u dont follow such teachings and u are not religious at all. And yes u follow what according to u is OK.... Thats the biggest reason u replied with so much of CRAP and insults to Islam and that shows u have a sealed mind which only thinks in one direction, what u like is right and what u dont like is CRAP.... For the links find ur religous books and refer to the verses I say:
*In Manu Smruti Chapter 5 verse 35 *
*In Vishnu Dharmottar Puran book 1 chapter 140 verses 49 & 50 *.

And yes If u think I posted crap about Manu Smriti and Vishnu Dharmottar Puran then verify it directly. But why do u need to verify also because u are not religious, u dont follow any religous scriptures, u follow what u think is right and what u think is wrong, isnt it??????

> Anyways this is my last reply to u as I dont want to waste any more time on a cheap roadside uneducated fool who does not believe in any religous scriptures who believes what he likes and terms everything as CRAP what he dislikes, because I know u will respond by saying cheap words and its no use of clearing misconceptions from ur mind about Islam because u have exhibited a closed mind which only thinks in one direction and has a cheap and PERVERT mentality.

Its people like u who have a closed mind and who do not actually believe in any scriptures but show off to be the most religous Hindus who are the root cause of communal tensions. But people of India have become smart now, they dont listen to mentalities like you now and exhibit Unity in any situations eg. the mumbai blasts. *I am Proud of people of India from all religions and offcourse Proud of India!!*

Thanks for reading and may God (whichever u believe in or u said u are not religious or u said u dont believe in any scriptures, u said u believe in Mahabharata/Vedas..., what u said yaar???) bless u!!!!

Thanks to everybody else who contributed in this thread specially to Yamaraj, kumarmohit and others!

Take Care and Last time sorry for any hurting or offensive statements made by me. Respect u all and love u all as brothers and fellow citizens!

I end up my last post with a Quotation from Qur'an:

"Call people in the way of Allah and show them the right path in the most righteous way but if they dont accept ur call tell them You do not worship what I worship and I will not worship what you worship so dont force me to worship what you worship and I will not force you to worship what I worship, for *You have your Faith and I have mine*"


----------



## mediator (Sep 28, 2006)

Oh man u replied so fast, just finished editing!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> @Mediator: I am no more Quoting u line by Line simply because:


Thats cheating! 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> > Uptil Now I thought u were discussing things in an open manner, have an open mind and ready for a dialogue. But you are exactly the opposite of it i.e a Uneducated Roadside Fool who has a close mind and who only knows to Insult as he cannot prove himself right..The only reason I didn't criticise or use words like pervert, cheap uptil now for u is because I wanted to have a descent and healthy discussion and also because if I used the same words as u did there wont be any difference between u and me.


Why bro? When I supported u u praised me and said I'm a sensible guy! And now when I opposed u...u are changing ur stance?? Now who's narrow minded?? Dude, First  ucall ur small section of society and religious heads as road side fools andd now me?? I think ur the one who is a road side fool who believes any crap!

Neways why do u criticise me now?? I just showed u a mirror reflecting ur pervertness,absurdity and ignorance?? I even proved it in detail! Who talked about closed room?? Who started the sex thing first?? Who started talking about Gods deficiency??
If u have even a little broadmindedness then u'll see I didnt talke about sharia at all even though I cud have made it look like a big joke, I didnt talk about ur penis cut from the start, but only did it after u talked about Gods deficiency!

If u wanna have descent and healthy discussion then why did u bring these thing into discussion?? Who started it?? 
Somewhere in my posts I continously told u I dont like to talk absurd and dont want opponent to do the same! I didnt said it for no reason. Coz I knew if debate in my real form u wud eventually quit. But u repeatedly made absurd,ignorant and pervert relpies! 
As for differences between u and me, I already listed them in the form of ur ignorance,absurdness and pervertness and that how much crap u can fill in ur mind and how much u can follow others so blindly!

Neways what did I do?? I just posted the facts and I told u if there's any thing absurd I posted then please quote it then. U'll help me improve then!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> I responded to all the INSULTS u made against Allah/Prophet/Islam without Insulting ur religion or Gods as I have a high tolerance level and patience and also respect for individuals of all faiths.


How? By deficiency?? And the crap about Navratri and then holi??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Whatever I quoted u dismissed what u disliked and then went on Insulting Islam. I was not here to preach Islam but only to defend or clear misconceptions.


I didnt dismiss anything nor I'm interested in listening to ur craps about navratri and holi. But I only replied with facts! If there are contradictions,jokes in Quran/Islam, then what can I do?? If u felt a pain by acknowledging the truth about plants then what can I do?? See, I didnt dismiss anything, but only tried to remove the bandage of ur eyes by posting facts!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> After taking too much of insults I just gave u one example out of so many of ur God's and you very easily sidelined from being a Hindu and say this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm only telling u the truth! If ur ignorant about Hinduism then I can only help u to show light! As A hindu I myself say its a crap then why dont u believe me?? 

Or U thought I will feel pain by thinking that I will ponder about such craps?? I told u I know what my religion is and I dont follow anything blindly! Guess u dont take such points seriously!

Did I say everything about Hinduis is correct? I'm openly saying I dont believe in that story u narrated about SHiva! And About ISlam, I say again I didnt say anything but only quoted ur replies and showed how much contradictions are there themselves!

If u felt a pain that whole Islam is based on contradiction, laughable jokes like upper limit etc then what can I do?? AS a friend I only showed some light and tried to tell u to use ur brains often to distinguish between good and bad, plants and animals, regions and religions, war and terrorism. I know u felt 10000 V shock, but in future please use ur brains often before blindly following ur religious laws. I dont know why u even need to follow them.

But believe me I'm ur best friend. If u have any doubts about ur religion u can ask me in future if ur in some dilemma to decide if its good or bad! 



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> In all ur posts u have told me that I should goto my religious heads and community and teach them this or that i.e what my friend mediator feel is correct. I ask you the same thing why dont u goto ur religous heads and Hindu community and tell them that Lord Ganesh story is crap and stop wasting crores of Rupees in making huge Idols of Ganesh and then finally immersing the huge Idols into the sea not only wasting Crores of Rupees but more importantly polluting the entire sea with so much of Clay every year????


All ur posts?? Are u making me laugh again?? I enlightened u about plants and animals, showed u difference between religion and region, war and terrorism etc etc and many many facts! And instead of being thankful to me, u criticise me?? How dare u  ??
What is there to debate with religious heads?? Shud I tell them I dont believe it?? Do u think Hindu heads are like muslim heads who will punish me for non-believing?? Let me tell u the only thing they'll say is "if u dont believe then dont"!
And for Ganesh immersions I dont even support it and dont believe it! I dont have any reason for that to fight the Hindu religious heads. But u have several reasons! See, I replied each one of them and gave the facts too! So u use these facts to argue ur religious lord! Dont u think so?? I dont believe in Ganesha's story, but if u believe in ur Quran story then isnt it Islamic to question ur religious heads which udescribed as "Road side fools"?? Isnt questioning better than following blindly??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> In all ur posts u have told me that I should goto my religious heads and community and teach them this or that i.e what my friend mediator feel is correct. I ask you the same thing why dont u goto ur religous heads and Hindu community and tell them that Lord Ganesh story is crap and stop wasting crores of Rupees in making huge Idols of Ganesh and then finally immersing the huge Idols into the sea not only wasting Crores of Rupees but more importantly polluting the entire sea with so much of Clay every year????



I guess here u are speaking like a true muslim (whose definition u already radiated with utmost confidence) and fighting facts again!




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> U went on giving stupid examples of people selling photos and then saying I term them as Unislamic and they are not REAL muslims. I never termed them as UnIslmaic but what activities they do which u quoted as unislamic.


Ur loosing ur patience ! The examples I gave are facts. If u wanna verify then feel free. Dont let the Islamic boundaries and blind teachings hinder u. Be open minded and ask the news channels who aired it or any foriegner who comes out with some pictures happily from Jama Masjid area without sex on ur mind! Anyways what activities they perform atleast u agree its Unislamic. They are creating communal tensions then why dont Bukari and all the mulsims there stop them?? Why dont they prevent the starting point of such communal tensions??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> You cannot even understand what Circumcision means and why its done. Maybe closed mind is not even open for Medical or scientific education, forget about religious enlightenment.


Dont think everybody is like u bro who doesnt even understand the concept of plant after my repeated request to read them and classify various categories! The muslim writer tells correctly about Muslims like u! And u call me closed minded? In ur first post u call me open minded and sensible like ur were on ur feet to praise me! BUt now again......Dont u like reality/fact mirrors??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> What teachings do u follow then, when i give quotations from ur religious scriptures u say u dont follow such teachings and u are not religious at all. And yes u follow what according to u is OK.... Thats the biggest reason u replied with so much of CRAP and insults to Islam and that shows u have a sealed mind which only thinks in one direction, what u like is right and what u dont like is CRAP.... For the links find ur religous books and refer to the verses I say:
> In Manu Smruti Chapter 5 verse 35
> In Vishnu Dharmottar Puran book 1 chapter 140 verses 49 & 50 .
> 
> And yes If u think I posted crap about Manu Smriti and Vishnu Dharmottar Puran then verify it directly. But why do u need to verify also because u are not religious, u dont follow any religous scriptures, u follow what u think is right and what u think is wrong, isnt it??????


I told u my religion is all about spirituality! Do u like to repeat such question in classrooms too or may be madrassas?? Relgion for u is pathetic set of laws, following anybody blindly without questioning and mugging up the lines from Quran which itself contains so many conradiction I proved! I think u really dont like reality mirrors! Why is it so hard for u to accept the various partialites,dualities,contradictions and unequal treatment about women?? I helped u to visualise it and think correctly! If its sour then its not my problem. A true friend is indeed the one who tells some sour stuff but only the facts and  no craps!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Anyways this is my last reply to u as I dont want to waste any more time on a cheap roadside uneducated fool who does not believe in any religous scriptures who believes what he likes and terms everything as CRAP what he dislikes, because I know u will respond by saying cheap words and its no use of clearing misconceptions from ur mind about Islam because u have exhibited a closed mind which only thinks in one direction and has a cheap and PERVERT mentality.


Kid, first u say I am sensible and most broadminded , then u say all are Unislamic in ur posts, then u say ur religious heads are "Road side fools".....just one thing to ask....are u mentally retarded?? Coz its a retarded person only who calls everybody else retarded!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Its people like u who have a closed mind and who do not actually believe in any scriptures but show off to be the most religous Hindus who are the root cause of communal tensions. But people of India have become smart now, they dont listen to mentalities like you now and exhibit Unity in any situations eg. the mumbai blasts. I am Proud of people of India from all religions and offcourse Proud of India!!


Do u call others who enlighten u by giving facts closed minded?? Then what do u call ur family members and teachers in classrooms?? Bro u need medication now! 
HEyyy, so what if ur mind is full of crap. So what if u radiate absurdity,ignorance and pervertness, so what if u follow others blindly? ATleast ur patriotic ! See u got one good quality in u that u can be proud of! Cheers!



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Thanks for reading and may God (whichever u believe in or u said u are not religious or u said u dont believe in any scriptures, u said u believe in Mahabharata/Vedas..., what u said yaar???) bless u!!!!


 Still not able to classify what I said?? U got biiiiiiig,serious classification problem! If u cant classify such simple things then how do u classify what ur maulana says??



			
				imranais said:
			
		

> Thanks to everybody else who contributed in this thread specially to Yamaraj, kumarmohit and others!
> 
> Take Care and Last time sorry for any hurting or offensive statements made by me. Respect u all and love u all as brothers and fellow citizens!


Hey thats cheating! I'm the one who enlightened u completely. My name shud be before @Yamaraj. He shud be second.  Neways........... Byeeeeee! 




			
				imranais said:
			
		

> "Call people in the way of Allah and show them the right path in the most righteous way but if they dont accept ur call tell them You do not worship what I worship and I will not worship what you worship so dont force me to worship what you worship and I will not force you to worship what I worship, for You have your Faith and I have mine"


Whateva....but dont have blind faith like u always did since childhood! May Almighty give u wisdom (which u were deprived of) for ur rest ur life. May Allah makes u remember My posts before listening to ur religious heads which u described as "road side fools"! 


May God bless u with the qualities u were deprived off in the whole debate!

If u want to continue, then I humbly request u to continue from my previous post with some or atleast a little broadmindedness and lack of stupidty,ignorance,pervertness which u radiated in full confidence and glamour throughout the thread! 

Byeee, I hope u do what u say! 
Hari Om!


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## king007 (Sep 28, 2006)

>> O I am so sorry *mediator* I forgot to Thank you in my last post (maybe I was too sleepy). Plz except my heartfelt Thanks for making my faith in Islam and its principles more stronger. Thanks for asking stuff which made me research and which only brought me more closer to Islam and reiiterated my faith and making it so much more stronger.

>> And everywhere u have just wrote (in almost all of ur posts) u have said that I have praised u, maybe its because for the first time in ur life somebody praised you and it made u so happy that it took u to seventh sky....

>> I called u an "Uneducated Roadside Fool" as I termed some people on the roadside selling photographs of naked Gods etc because when somebody asks u to what religion u belong, You very proudly with all ur might answer I am a Hindu or I am a Muslim and when someone quotes u or asks you why u are going against ur religious scriptures u have nothing to say so u say this:


			
				mediator said:
			
		

> And even its true then I dont follow such teachings! I told u that in ur definition I'm not religious at all. I dont follow any teachings and anybody unless there's is any piece of WISDOM in it or if according to me its OK!


. So that's what I rightly say "Uneducated Roadside Fool" and people like you exists in all religions.

>> Its people like you and other fools from both religion who burn bridges and build walls between bretheren of different faiths and are root cause of communal tensions whenever they happen. And now as I said most people understand motive of people like u....

>> Like u said U Cannot listen or accept things (CRAP, according to u) because 





			
				mediator said:
			
		

> I told u that in ur definition I'm not religious at all. I dont follow any teachings and anybody unless there's is any piece of WISDOM in it or *if according to me its OK!*


. Mr. Closed minded mediator, u can quote only roadside examples to defame any religion but how can u justify the Scientific Facts in the Qur'an which were mentioned 1400 years ago and Science after so much of advancement of technology discovered it few years ago... U may say it were wild guesses from the prophet, but how can there be so many wild guesses and all accurate and with so much of minute details. 

How can someone talk about stages of embroyonic development (without the advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time), how can someone talk about how the universe originated which scientists have discovered just some years back, how can someone say that there is an unseen barrier between Sweet and Salt water of seas which does not allow them to mix, the list is endless my friend cant speak of them all here.

But whenever u come out of ur ignorance or if u ever open ur sealed mind just refer to these facts which the Qur'an mentions (I know u dont believe in any scriptures but if u are educated enough u maybe atleast believe in Science and Technology):
*www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm
*www.rationalreality.com/
*home.swipnet.se/islam/quran-bible.htm
*www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_37.html
*www.universalunity.net/universe.htm


At the end Thanks a lot again for helping me make my faith and belief stronger and sorry that I missed ur name in previous post and u rightly said I will remember u for all the things u did or said to help me get closer to Islam and hence get closer to reality!

Thanks mediator!


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## it_waaznt_me (Sep 28, 2006)

Okay people .. Enough bashing each other's faith now... The tone is getting harsher with every post and tempers rising... 
If you wanna debate your faith then find a suitable forum and then create a thread there (you wont have to create a thread, you'll find many in IPFC community in Orkut)..
I am now closing this thread because this "discussion" has nothing to do with the original topic of the thread.


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