# PSU problem?



## lm2k (Oct 4, 2012)

hello
one of my friend has a pc with following config
amd athlon ii x2 240(stock)
2gb ram(1gb*2) kingston@800mhz
biostar t790gx mothreboard(am2+)
wd blue 320gb hdd
one sony cdrw dvd rom
one lg dvd rom
philips SHP1900 head fones
and monitor resolution is 1600*900
1 *320gb external seagate hdd(frequently connected)
and lastly *odessy 450w generic psu(10A on 12volt)*


now earlier she was using windows xp pro, then sysem would randomly freeze(even caps lock wont turn on) and again recover when ever anything graphic intensive application(even firefox) was launched. Then things got worst and system wont recover at all(restart was only option).
So I installed windows 7 to it(thinking it gpu was a driver issue)
but after some time same symptoms appeared,also external hdd would frequently connect and disconnect(on its own showing the autoplay and scan for errors window frequently).
now many times screen goes off(even caps lock wont turn on)---then restart and after a few trials system would run fine
sometimes horizontal lines(not permanent lines but temporarily) are seen on screen and system hangs (even caps lock wont turn on)*farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/8053771784_630866b4fb_h_d.jpg

now what i tried was-
1)reinstall driver(gpu)--no gain
2)ran occpt cpu stress test(after removing all external devices) for abt an hour---temp goes to 50deg and system works normally(no restarts)
3)removed external hdd, usb modems,head fones and mobile phone(Samsung b2100)-----system does not hang but sometime when we turn it on for the first time in day it needs a couple of restarts(same as mentioned above)
4) cleaned cabinet for dust------no gain

i now conclude that its a psu issue but again it is wise to consider other opinions(if any)
if it is a psu problem pls suggest a psu upto 2500rs , now again there is no chance that this person buys a discreet gpu(mostly onboard) since sole purpose of machine is like a browsing rig.


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## d6bmg (Oct 4, 2012)

Either motherboard or monitor gone. 
RMA the motherboard at first and then if the problem continues, then look at the monitor.
At last, change the PSU.


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## lm2k (Oct 4, 2012)

d6bmg said:


> Either motherboard or monitor gone.
> RMA the motherboard at first and then if the problem continues, then look at the monitor.



But how could this be?:-S
I mentioned in my first post that the lines on the monitor are just temporary n occur only when system freezes. Can a faulty monitor cause a system freeze ?


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## The Incinerator (Oct 4, 2012)

Your mobo is dying , I believe the GPU part. Connect a Discreet GPU and check if the problem persists. And do remove the drivers and completely disable the onboard one .

Do try another PSU from a freiend before drawing conclusions and spending.


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## lm2k (Oct 4, 2012)

^ Onboard gpu,while playing cs 1.6 the players sometimes do appear like made up of small pieces(mostly triangular) of torn cloth(will post a screen shot 2moro). So cud this b related to a failing gpu? Can a mgpu stress test confirm that mgpu is culprit?
Also can this generic psu(with 10A on 12V rail) handle a 8400gs


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## d6bmg (Oct 5, 2012)

In my post I've clearly mention that you should RMA the motherboard at first.


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## The Incinerator (Oct 5, 2012)

18A-25A on 12V is "the" atleast. Get any worthy PSU.... borrow from a friend and check.


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## topgear (Oct 5, 2012)

check memory modules using memtest86+ app.


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## d6bmg (Oct 6, 2012)

topgear said:


> check memory modules using memtest86+ app.



In case of memory problem system crushes suddenly.


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## topgear (Oct 7, 2012)

by crushes did you mean system will show bsod and then restart ( or need to be manually restarted ) -- well this may not happen always, I've experience with bad ram modules and because of that I've never faced any bsod -- pc will freeze and after say a minute or two will start working again normally sans all the gfx looked weired or while in games the pc will just freeze, pc won't start up normally - had to presss the reset button couple of time to make it work normally though every OS will just install fine - after changing the faulty Starlite DDR ram module every issue got fixed.


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## d6bmg (Oct 7, 2012)

Yes, by PC crush I mean BSOD.

PC freezing can be a result of 3 possibilities:
1. Inferior PSU.
2. Bad RAM module.
3. bad motherboard.

(Numbers mentioning the priority)


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## lm2k (Oct 8, 2012)

Ok so as u guys suggested i tried a vip400r psu(20A on 12 volt), now system starts properly and no freezes and restarts so far.
Did mem testx86 for around 2hrs--- no errors
but while putting in the psu i saw some dust on cpu heat sink and i foolishly flipped the heatsink clip and it came out so i immediately placed it back, effect was immediate. When i turned on the system temps were around 41(idle) and around 58 to 66(full load) but still no restarts.
Now i want to put thermal compound on cpu but is it necessary to clean the older one? any suggestions about which one is better?
again with what to clean it?

also i did 3dmark 2006 test and all test show up like this


*farm9.staticflickr.com/8452/8066321255_782ef47218_b_d.jpg 
*farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8066325320_ecaffe44f7_b_d.jpg
*farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/8066324040_07085d575d_b_d.jpg

cs 1.6 also shows similar problem.
but again GOW 2 runs fine without any such faults(on ps2 emulator)
also i tried 3dsmax2012 and nothing such was there( renderring and perspective window).
what has caused this?


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## The Incinerator (Oct 8, 2012)

Now try with a discreet GPU and check if the problem persists.

Thermal Paste: How To Correctly Apply Thermal Paste | Hardware Secrets


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## aloodum (Oct 9, 2012)

throw that generic oddyssey psu to the garbage can 
Some nerves to run a system with 10A on the 12v!! Im sure the smps has a atleast a blow cap on it.

From the signs of it, the artifacting(the wierd display) can be attributed to a dying/overheating vid chip on the mobo or f-ed up drivers. If the mobo is in warranty get it rma-ed. If not get the vid chip reballed(bga reballing). And yes try it with a discrete card and let us know the results.

Honetsly, i would not have stressed the system with the cpu stress test. From the given config, this smps is ages old..  i mean a rebranded p3 psu ...when max current was on the 5v rail...check it out, you'll see more current on the 5v rails, sometimes close to twice than that on the 12v rail..these cheap psu makers..as if forgetting that PC's since the days of p4s draw more current on the 12v rail and not the 5V.

Let this be a lesson for your friend. A dying psu can take a lot of things down with itself...most badly being affected is the motherboard, with various random slots stopping to function


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## topgear (Oct 9, 2012)

@ for thermal paste look for Noctua NT-H1 or DeepCool Z5 and about the gfx issues do what_ aloodum_ has told.


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## lm2k (Oct 9, 2012)

@The Incinerator: i ll try a dgpu asap. From the link  u gave me i learnt 1)get  isopropanol and clean the previous paste with cotton bud. 
                                                                                                                 2)apply a spot of the new thermal grease ,too much is not good.    thnx
@ topgeareepCool Z5 seems nice ,i ll order one from ebay tonite.
@ aloodum: odessy is also in the psu black list of in our forum(TDF) and even vip
u know on 5V it shows 27A but when i connected a external portable hdd it frequently got disconnected,and when a usb modem(ZTE-reliance netconnect) and mobile fone was connected the pc would freeze(even caps lock wont turn on) so what i understood is that 27A on 5V when all the other rails are off . now i have removed it and replaced it with a vip400r for some time and thinking abt corsair cx430. 
abt gpu i ll try a dgpu asap and report the results, but as u said " f-ed up drivers", i ll frist try to reinstall the system and then drivers. because god of war on ps2 emulator works fine , also neogeo(emulator) games work fine.
rma of mbo is a sure option when all efforts fail.


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## d6bmg (Oct 9, 2012)

Get Corsair CX430V2 or 
Corsair VS450.
That VIP PSu isn't good.


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## aloodum (Oct 9, 2012)

@@lm2k: chalo you got ur hands full 
See that is/was the issue with generic smps. They make a mockery of prevalent ATX standards.Even a few years back companies like zebronics made "Platinum 600" smps with the fancy LED and heatshrink sleeved cables but forgot that their psu still gives a bloody 30A on 5V compared to a lowly 27A on the 12V.
We hope the smps chaange coupled with the RMA(if driver reinstall fails-first chipset and then vga or is it in a single driver package for onboard?) should see a big grin on your face.


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## The Incinerator (Oct 9, 2012)

Great.....


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## lm2k (Oct 11, 2012)

ok so i have now installed windows 7 and drivers(that came with mbo cd) and did 3dmark 2006 and really it gave no such display issues
*farm9.staticflickr.com/8187/8076168965_06efb824d9_b_d.jpg

*farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8076161134_f2d5d37c69_b_d.jpg

everything worked as it should

but when i tried to install newer drivers(from AMD) same tearing of pictures occured . so far it seems like a driver incompatibility issue. i m on older ATI drivers and now it works fine.
and  waiting for the thermal paste to ship.

about psu , corsair cx430 is single rail but vs450 is dual. which one is better ?


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## aloodum (Oct 11, 2012)

^^ Regarding a choice between two,i`'d choose the pricier CX430V2 oever the VS, and i guess its worth the difference given slighty better efficiency, longer cables, & better caps (CX430 has all SamXon , while vs450 has a mix with JunFu.) . Also prefer a single powerful rail


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## d6bmg (Oct 11, 2012)

CX430V2 is better than VS450.
BTW, what is your maximum budget for buying the PSU?


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## The Incinerator (Oct 11, 2012)

CX430V2 anyday over the VS450. The VS 450 is a region specific PSU having lesser quality compared to a CX430V2 as explained by aloodum.


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## lm2k (Oct 11, 2012)

Max 3.5k Rs for psu.
Also cx 430 has 28 A on 12 V. Any idea abt vs 450 , it says like 20A on v1 and 18A on v2, now adding them wont give the answer as v1 is rated 20 when v2 is off.
Also this area often suffers from brownouts in evening(2 to 4 hrs) and early morning( as an average 170 volts) so would it be safe to turn on pc when using a corsair psu in a brownout of 170 volt?


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## aloodum (Oct 11, 2012)

@@lm2k: As you have guessed, those current figures are just the max current limit for the respective rails. To get an ide about actual amps supplied, look for total wattage delivered on 12v rail and divide by 12. Say suppose its say total powered delivered on 12V is 300Watts...That means 300/12=25A
Now this 25 Amps can be divided like 10A on first rail and 15A on second rail.And that is why a single rail works better when rail current is low per rail...you would not want power hungry components on a single rail as the first rail tradiotionnaly is kept for CPU section

Regarding operating in lower voltages, i have personally used my gs600 at voltages 140-150V  , though certainly not advised.It may be able to handle but would definitely stress out your caps and voltage regulating circuit.


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## The Incinerator (Oct 11, 2012)

More amps in a single rail works best in new generation Computers.


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## lm2k (Oct 11, 2012)

^ ok thnx for info.
so a cx430 would be fine.
for- single rail,quality components and efficiency.
but is this the best one for 3.5k budget? Also upto what extent cx430 can handle a dgpu. I mean what is the last dgpu(in terms of power) it can work with?


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## The Incinerator (Oct 11, 2012)

Check it.


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## d6bmg (Oct 11, 2012)

For 3.5K budget, you may look for Seasonic S12II 520 in the local market. You may get it @3.8K, which is better than CX430V2 and can provide more power and the added advantage is 80+ certification.


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## aloodum (Oct 11, 2012)

^^ isnt seasonic having dodgy RMA/A.S.S  issues in India (via tirupati i reckon) ? I think i have read about it on quite a few forums....


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## topgear (Oct 13, 2012)

then Op can opt for a CX500v2 -- selling around ~3.2k.


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## d6bmg (Oct 14, 2012)

aloodum said:


> ^^ isnt seasonic having dodgy RMA/A.S.S  issues in India (via tirupati i reckon) ? I think i have read about it on quite a few forums....



Yes, but the brand is good and OP have the budget to afford it.


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## lm2k (Oct 15, 2012)

@d6bmg :Seasonic S12II 520 is very tempting but it costs around 4k on flipkart and locally all i can get is VIP gold atmost.


i really had a hard time convincing this friend of mine to get atleast a Corsair -430CXV2. but i have gone thru its review on hardware secrets which is really satisfying(i mean ,we get what we pay for)

and also about that thermal paste, how many applications does a deep cool zs5 syringe have? also what is the shelf life of it?(like in case of feviquik we use have to use it within 30days after opening)


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## topgear (Oct 16, 2012)

I think TiM lasts for 2 years ( acc to manufacturers ) after you start using it but I'vfe used one after 4 years and if sored correctly it will even work after such long period of time and talking about how manu time you can use one ? well a 4g tube is enough to use for 12-14 times


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## d6bmg (Oct 17, 2012)

Afer opening a TIM, if you close the cap again, it lasts for ~1-2 years (depending on how carefully you preserve it).


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## lm2k (Oct 18, 2012)

ok thnx a lot
abt psu i have fixed Corsair -430CXV2 and would place order tonite
thanx everyone.


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## The Incinerator (Oct 18, 2012)

^^ Congrats!


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